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Good afternoon. This is a work session for
the City of Largo.

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Today is Tuesday, August 11th, 2026.

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I'd like to call this meeting to order and
ask that if you have a cell phone,

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please turn it to silent or off so that we
don't have any interruptions.

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We have 2 items on the agenda.

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The first is fiscal year 2027 annual
budget direction.

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Good afternoon, Mayor and City Commission.

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I am Jared Campbell, Performance and
Budget Manager for the City of Largo,

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and it is my pleasure to bring to you
today the Finance Advisory Board's fiscal

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today the Finance Advisory Board's fiscal
year

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2027 annual budget recommendations.

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Today we will be covering FAB
recommendations from their July 27th

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recommendations from their July 27th
meeting,

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presenting alternative millage rates per
commission direction—

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directive at the July 17th work session,

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providing additional context on budget
development surrounding estimated

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development surrounding estimated
unexpended

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calculations, and finally requesting City
Commission's direction on changes to the

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tentative budget prior to first hearing.

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All right, joining me today is the Finance
Advisory Board Chair Bill McIntosh to

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present and provide context from the
board's discussions.

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On July 27th, the board made a total of 7
recommendation, recommendation motions,

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5 of which were carried.

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First being a recommendation to approve
The reduction of city-paid entertainment

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The reduction of city-paid entertainment
to

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Saturday, but staff should look into
replacing entertainment with local free

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replacing entertainment with local free
options

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for the eliminated days, carried 6 to 0.

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For context, the referenced reduction
would limit paid entertainment to Saturday

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would limit paid entertainment to Saturday
as

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opposed to Thursday through Sunday during
the month of December.

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Paid entertainment for 4 evenings Began in
calendar year 2024,

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and this year would mark the 3rd year.

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A recommendation was also made to approve
the reduction of the senior trip program,

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carried 5 to 1. The program services 5
citizens on a monthly basis.

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City staff presented alternatives for the,

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for the program to include shifting to a
quarterly basis and chartering bus

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services.

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Thank you.

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Each of the alternatives were found to be
either a large increase in the cost—

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in cost to the city,

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or would necessitate unsustainable rate
increases for the program.

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In terms of rates and fees,

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the board approved recommendation of the
proposed 5.5200 millage rate for the

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proposed 5.5200 millage rate for the
fiscal

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year 2027 budget, carried 6 to 0.

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Adoption of the Recreation, Parks, and
Arts proposed fee schedule carried 5 to 1,

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and recommended a 15% stormwater rate
increase carried 5 to 1.

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I now pass things over to Chairman
McIntosh to provide additional context and

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feedback.

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Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, City
Commission.

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Jared gave the overview there for the
Holiday Lights.

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The FAB discussed the various options of
free entertainment versus continuing the

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paid entertainment. It was our feeling
that if we can find some local acts,

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high school bands or whatever,

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to carry on entertainment during days
other than Saturday,

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that would help reduce the cost while
still providing for paid entertainment for

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still providing for paid entertainment for
the

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largest attended day of the Holiday
Lights.

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entertainment there, and we did pass that
motion 6 to 0.

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Regarding the senior trips, um,

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Jarrod said there's only a very few
individuals who take advantage of that.

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Um, considering, you know, renting a bus
would dramatically increase the cost,

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and there wouldn't probably be that many
more individuals that would take advantage

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of that.

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Okay.

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Um, so it was the board's recommendation
to reduce the senior, uh,

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the senior trip program, and that motion
did pass 5 5 to 1,

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because there are other private— it was
brought up during the meeting—

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there are other private, uh, um, community
facilities that offer similar trips, uh,

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to seniors in the area.

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As for the millage rate,

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we do recommend the continuing at the 5.52
millage rate and not reducing or

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increasing that, just considering the,

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the city budget obligations for the coming
fiscal year.

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Thank you.

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For the recreation parks and arts fee
increases, current fees—

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staff said current fees are expected to
increase by about $5 per item per person.

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Several members of the FAB expressed
interest in investigating whether it would

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interest in investigating whether it would
be

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possible to make at least some of these
programs revenue neutral by increasing the

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fees on these, and staff said that was a
consideration for future years.

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We did move to adopt the RPA proposed fee
schedule, and that passed 5 to 0.

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So the stormwater rate increase, we do
recommend,

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and we had previously recommended the 15%
increase just based on city staff

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recommendations that if we were to go to,
for example,

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7.5 this year and 7.5 next year, there
would be a budget shortfall in future

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would be a budget shortfall in future
years.

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Although staff did also say there probably
would be fee increases in future years

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even with the 15%, but that would help
offset the rate of those fee increases

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offset the rate of those fee increases
better

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than the 75/75 split. So we did pass that
5 to 1.

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And then we talked about the budget
documentation—

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budget document as a communication tool.

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It's extremely thorough,

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and we appreciate the city staff's time
and effort and energy that they put into

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that. Some felt that perhaps it was—

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would be a little overwhelming for some
residents because it is so extremely

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detailed. And we thought it would be
helpful to highlight more of the positive

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accomplishments and good developments
occurring throughout the year, not just—

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not just only in the budget document
there.

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So does the City Commission have any
questions that I might be able to help

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questions that I might be able to help
answer?

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Thank you.

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Any questions? Commissioner Holmes.

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Hi, Bill. Got a question for you.

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The first one, you said the city-paid
entertainment on

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Saturdays. What actually is that?

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So that would be the 4 days during
Christmas in the park,

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Largo Central Park, where there is paid
entertainment for the market

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there that occurs.

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Okay, so that's only 4 days per year.

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No, it would be 4 days per week,

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and it would be moving to 4 days per year,
essentially,

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during the holiday festivities in the
park.

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How much is it costing us?

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I will have to look up the total cost. The
net cost on this one was brought up in—

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It was minimal.

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It was like $6,000.

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How much?

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I mean, you get a couple of minimals here
and a minimal there,

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all of a sudden you're talking about some
And if I may clarify,

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I think we've been doing 4 days of live
entertainment.

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We've been playing, you know,

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we play Christmas or holiday music
throughout the entire time the lights are

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throughout the entire time the lights are
on.

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For the last probably, I think, 3 years,

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we've been providing up to 4 nights of
paid live entertainment.

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If we go to 1 night per week, we'd still
be—

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there would still be music and festive
music that would be Played.

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We just wouldn't be paying someone to
perform on the stage.

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We continue to offer various school groups
and things, nights to play, you know,

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have the band come play or the choirs come
sing. Those activities would continue.

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That's a good idea. That was no problem.

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That was— well, we're going to talk about
the millage rate later on.

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I guess for right now— oh, the 15%
increase on the stormwater,

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is that based upon strictly salaries, or
is that— I don't think we have—

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we don't treat stormwater, do we? I don't
think we do.

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Not actively.

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No, we don't treat it.

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So the 15%— what is it actually costing us
to get rid of stormwater outside of

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maintaining the pipes And, and
maintenance, stuff like that?

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Pure cost, I would have to get back to
you.

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Outside of maintenance,

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the 15% was a multi-year rate increase to
get us back to the maintenance standard

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that was provided in a previous study to
commission.

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Okay, because I couldn't quite— yeah, I'm
very curious about that.

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Not going to beat up anybody, I just want
to know. Okay, thank you.

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I would maybe add that the bulk of the
stormwater fee is spent both on streets

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stormwater fee is spent both on streets
and

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stormwater folks that work in stormwater
world,

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but largely projects with a list of 8 or 9
projects, some, some of which are funded,

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some of which are unfunded,

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but largely regular maintenance and
projects is the bulk of that money.

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So stormwater is actually integrated with
streets then?

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Uh, for maintenance.

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Yeah, okay.

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Jerry, right? Jerry knows all that stuff.
Thank you.

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Sure.

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Commissioner, Commissioner DeBreezy.

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Thank you. Um, first of all, that was— I,

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I had to fill in for Commissioner Lowser
at that FAB meeting, and—

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Sorry.

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That was fine. Having, having never been
to one before, I was,

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I was really impressed at how thorough you
guys are,

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so I just wanted to pass that compliment
along,

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but I was one of the ones at the meeting
who brought up the last—

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our meeting about the holiday
entertainment and the Christmas

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entertainment and the Christmas
entertainment there.

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I mean, it's minimal, but, you know, it is
the most attended event of the year.

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I'm okay with if there is, you know, some
entertainment, if it's free or not,

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the 4 nights a week, but I think we need
to stick to the 4 nights a week.

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And if we got to pay for it, I, you know,
that's something I'd like to leave,

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you know, in the in their recommendations.
So that's it.

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Yeah, kind of along those lines, I, um,
and without the actual number for,

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for all of the nights that we've had, um,
I,

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I think it might make sense to set a
budget for the entire span of when the

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budget for the entire span of when the
lights

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are out there and, and for the entire
calendar.

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And, and, and if we're able to have more
than just Saturdays within that budget,

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great. Uh, you know, I know that the, um,
the Clearwater Jazz Foundation does their,

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uh, Give Them a Stage program where they
pay for people to play jazz on a stage

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somewhere. Maybe we could partner with
them for a couple of the nights and, and,

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you know, other school groups or whatever
that either zero or very little cost to

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the city. Um, but I, I would rather than
just strictly limit it to Saturday nights,

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we'll have paid-for entertainment, um,
have a budget that,

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that is maybe less than we've spent for 4
nights of live entertainment every week.

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Um, but, uh, but give the Parks and Rec
folks a little bit of, uh, leeway to,

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to schedule it, um, whatever, however they
can.

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Mayor, if I can, the budget for the
holiday lights for the season is $4,500.

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What is— I think it's important,

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the kind of the direction we gave RPA was
to try to find reductions that would

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minimize the service impacts to the
residents.

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And so that's why you're seeing, I think,
the small dollar amounts come forward,

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because we were trying to avoid
eliminating hours at rec centers or you

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eliminating hours at rec centers or you
know,

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camps or camp programs and things like
that.

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So that's why this budget, I think
especially these recommendations,

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are nibbling at the edges a bit.

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Yeah, so, so, um, that $4,500, is that,
uh,

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last year's budget or is that the proposed
budget?

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00:17:53,382 --> 00:17:55,441
I, um, Director Pinson, I think,

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will come and answer the questions more
knowledgeably than I can.

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Yeah, sure.

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00:18:00,184 --> 00:18:03,271
$4,500. You know what this used to cost?

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We used to spend $75,000 That's just the

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entertainment. Oh, just—

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That is just the entertainment for the
bands that we bring out,

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and the $4,500 would be the savings of
reducing, um, Thursday, Friday, and

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reducing, um, Thursday, Friday, and
Sunday,

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um, but we would— of just the music,

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but we would still have the markets and
the food vendors out there on those other

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00:18:22,965 --> 00:18:26,753
evenings and then try and subsidize and
fill in with school groups.

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Can you legally get sponsors for this?

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Well, we do have sponsors.

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And so that's something I mentioned to the
FAB as well,

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is that we do have a reliable group of
sponsors that we go to on a regular basis.

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So it's not just simply— it's not easy
just to go add people.

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We already do actively pursue sponsors for
all of our events.

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So we're just burdening the same people
more.

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Buy more.

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The commercial says buy more and save.

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$100 is, you said, the savings?

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Correct.

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By reducing it. And so do you know what
about we will spend that we expect to

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00:19:06,273 --> 00:19:06,702
about we will spend that we expect to
spend

227
00:19:06,702 --> 00:19:06,959
on—

228
00:19:06,959 --> 00:19:11,206
I'd have to look up that number to see
what Kara currently has in the budget for

229
00:19:11,206 --> 00:19:12,745
just those Saturday evenings.

230
00:19:12,745 --> 00:19:13,755
All right.

231
00:19:13,755 --> 00:19:15,060
Saturday is the biggest evening,

232
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:18,200
and that's usually when we partner with
the Clearwater Jazz and some of those

233
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:18,403
the Clearwater Jazz and some of those
other

234
00:19:18,403 --> 00:19:18,852
activities.

235
00:19:18,852 --> 00:19:22,723
Okay, and so some of that is, you know,
it's partly sponsored and some of it's,

236
00:19:22,723 --> 00:19:22,870
it's partly sponsored and some of it's,
um,

237
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:26,790
Probably I would expect maybe 1 or 2 of
those nights cost a little bit more than

238
00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:26,937
those nights cost a little bit more than
any

239
00:19:26,937 --> 00:19:28,848
of the others or whatever, right? Okay.

240
00:19:28,848 --> 00:19:31,478
Yeah, if it's linear, $4,500 savings,

241
00:19:31,478 --> 00:19:35,387
that would mean that last year the overall
cost $6,000.

242
00:19:35,387 --> 00:19:39,296
So because you're doing 3/4, or you're
reducing it 3/4,

243
00:19:39,296 --> 00:19:44,058
so $1,500 would be the current budget for
this year for 4 weekends.

244
00:19:44,058 --> 00:19:48,201
If it was linear. I don't think it is.

245
00:19:48,201 --> 00:19:52,986
I think Saturday is our bigger night that
we do

246
00:19:52,986 --> 00:19:57,567
some of the bigger activities. Anything
else?

247
00:19:57,567 --> 00:20:01,531
All right, I personally think it would
make sense to, um,

248
00:20:01,531 --> 00:20:05,147
let's say that the budget was $6,000, say,
you know,

249
00:20:05,147 --> 00:20:10,640
let's spend no more than whatever the
budget is now with this $4,500 reduction.

250
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,090
You know, I don't want to somebody to go
out there and say, hey,

251
00:20:15,090 --> 00:20:18,150
how come there's live music on Friday
night?

252
00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:22,253
And, uh, let's— why is the city putting
live entertainment?

253
00:20:22,253 --> 00:20:26,773
They just passed that it was only going to
be on Saturday nights.

254
00:20:26,773 --> 00:20:31,779
And now we have to explain that, well,
this one's sponsored or whatever.

255
00:20:31,779 --> 00:20:35,326
So just give a budget and, and do what we
can, and,

256
00:20:35,326 --> 00:20:40,889
and with the expectation that we'll have
live music on Saturdays and maybe other

257
00:20:40,889 --> 00:20:42,488
days, right? Thank you.

258
00:20:43,242 --> 00:20:44,735
like mix it up a little,

259
00:20:44,735 --> 00:20:49,151
like have some of the sponsored music and
paid music on the same night.

260
00:20:49,151 --> 00:20:49,938
Yeah, whatever.

261
00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:51,813
Yeah, I mean, they do a great job.

262
00:20:51,813 --> 00:20:55,600
And I know that even on Saturday nights
when it's the bigger event, some—

263
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,608
sometimes those people are not getting
paid to play music.

264
00:20:58,608 --> 00:21:02,498
And sometimes we have a band that costs a
couple hundred bucks or whatever.

265
00:21:02,498 --> 00:21:06,284
I don't know how much it costs to have a
band. I've never been in a band.

266
00:21:06,284 --> 00:21:08,009
And to understand what you're saying,

267
00:21:08,009 --> 00:21:11,366
you were Were you saying make a budget
based on what we're thinking now?

268
00:21:11,366 --> 00:21:14,536
That would be the linear $1,500 that
Commissioner Louser was saying,

269
00:21:14,536 --> 00:21:17,986
which is the cut. Do we want them to be
more than what they were, or just—

270
00:21:17,986 --> 00:21:20,934
I, I don't— we don't— the $1,500 was a
guess.

271
00:21:20,934 --> 00:21:22,489
I know, just using it as an example.

272
00:21:22,489 --> 00:21:28,074
So, but a number around there, maybe a
round number like $2,000 if it's whatever,

273
00:21:28,074 --> 00:21:30,901
and say that's your budget, and, and, uh,

274
00:21:30,901 --> 00:21:36,416
that will provide music on Saturday nights
And then any other nights within that

275
00:21:36,416 --> 00:21:36,899
budget.

276
00:21:36,899 --> 00:21:38,193
I would agree with that.

277
00:21:38,193 --> 00:21:42,129
I mean, it gives the staff more, more
latitude to, to, you know, stretch,

278
00:21:42,129 --> 00:21:45,796
stretch what, what money they do have and,
and provide more service,

279
00:21:45,796 --> 00:21:47,306
as much service as they can.

280
00:21:47,306 --> 00:21:50,615
Yeah, and, and with understanding that,
um, because we're,

281
00:21:50,615 --> 00:21:54,952
we're reducing how much money we're
spending on the entertainment during the

282
00:21:54,952 --> 00:21:55,351
spending on the entertainment during the
Holiday

283
00:21:55,351 --> 00:21:57,862
Lights, um, there may be less
entertainment,

284
00:21:57,862 --> 00:22:02,426
but we got a great staff out there and
maybe they'll be about the same if we can

285
00:22:02,426 --> 00:22:02,541
maybe they'll be about the same if we can
If

286
00:22:02,541 --> 00:22:06,934
we can get folks to sponsor or different
groups to play for free or whatever.

287
00:22:06,934 --> 00:22:09,483
Maybe you can recruit church choirs.

288
00:22:09,483 --> 00:22:10,322
That's possible.

289
00:22:10,322 --> 00:22:13,899
You got enough churches around, see if
they want to come out and sing a song.

290
00:22:13,899 --> 00:22:18,492
You just advertised it so they could
contact Parks and Recreation.

291
00:22:18,492 --> 00:22:20,511
Mr. Mayor, I'd like to— you know,

292
00:22:20,511 --> 00:22:25,468
I can pledge that I think we can find help
from the chamber members to cover this

293
00:22:25,468 --> 00:22:29,261
shortfall, and I think you know, we ought
to plan on doing it.

294
00:22:29,261 --> 00:22:34,218
And I pledge to find enough to cover that
amount because I do appreciate the fact

295
00:22:34,218 --> 00:22:36,176
that we're cutting these things.

296
00:22:36,176 --> 00:22:40,948
I know it's like everyone's trying to
squeeze their budget to hit our numbers.

297
00:22:40,948 --> 00:22:43,580
I don't want to like devalue their
efforts,

298
00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:46,517
but I just want to say that I think we can
find—

299
00:22:46,517 --> 00:22:50,861
I'm sure we can find some new sponsors
that would help, um, cover that.

300
00:22:50,861 --> 00:22:53,125
Yeah, and chamber members and others.

301
00:22:53,269 --> 00:22:53,526
So, right.

302
00:22:53,526 --> 00:22:58,179
And to that end, I think that if we just
Say this is your budget from city money

303
00:22:58,179 --> 00:23:02,949
that's going to pay for that, right? And,
and, uh, then we'll figure out the rest.

304
00:23:02,949 --> 00:23:07,486
And if there's money or, or talent or
whatever that comes to fill in the gaps,

305
00:23:07,486 --> 00:23:12,081
great. But at least we'll have the money
to have live entertainment on Saturday

306
00:23:12,081 --> 00:23:13,593
night absent any sponsors.

307
00:23:13,593 --> 00:23:15,934
Yeah, so our direction is to—

308
00:23:16,879 --> 00:23:18,468
well, that's what we already have, right?

309
00:23:18,468 --> 00:23:21,143
That's what's in the budget is to have it
on Saturday night, correct?

310
00:23:21,367 --> 00:23:24,951
So, so what I'm saying is, yeah, we're
approving that.

311
00:23:24,951 --> 00:23:28,468
fund that number and not limit it to
Saturday nights.

312
00:23:28,468 --> 00:23:31,456
We want to see more nights, whatever
resources they can come up with to do

313
00:23:31,456 --> 00:23:31,658
resources they can come up with to do
that.

314
00:23:31,658 --> 00:23:31,860
Sure.

315
00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:33,136
Just modify the language.

316
00:23:33,136 --> 00:23:36,968
And we don't present the budget based on
the night of the week.

317
00:23:36,968 --> 00:23:39,948
So we will take the lump sum amount and
apply it.

318
00:23:39,948 --> 00:23:42,355
Just the premise of the proposed cut,

319
00:23:42,355 --> 00:23:44,503
proposed cut is just in spending.

320
00:23:44,503 --> 00:23:47,951
It's not necessarily in nights of live
entertainment.

321
00:23:47,951 --> 00:23:48,339
Right.

322
00:23:48,339 --> 00:23:49,375
Commissioner Carroll?

323
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:54,681
So you're going to go sing, huh?

324
00:23:54,681 --> 00:23:58,697
We're not having commission karaoke, to be
clear.

325
00:23:58,697 --> 00:24:02,571
That was going to be one of my answers. I
don't think that will be a big draw.

326
00:24:02,571 --> 00:24:05,188
Any other questions?

327
00:24:05,188 --> 00:24:06,435
Leave the band.

328
00:24:06,435 --> 00:24:09,741
All right. With that, I will move on.

329
00:24:09,741 --> 00:24:12,779
During the July 17th work session,

330
00:24:12,779 --> 00:24:19,122
staff was requested to provide 2
alternative Property tax millage rates

331
00:24:19,122 --> 00:24:20,105
alternative Property tax millage rates
between the

332
00:24:20,105 --> 00:24:23,321
rollback rate and the proposed rate.

333
00:24:23,321 --> 00:24:30,648
The above slide shows the specific details
of and impacts on fund balance for both

334
00:24:30,648 --> 00:24:37,974
previous— previously discussed options, as
well as a 5.45% and 5.49% millage rate.

335
00:24:37,974 --> 00:24:43,960
Alternative 1 of 5.45% would be an
advertised 1.17% tax increase An

336
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,390
advertised 1.17% tax increase An
Alternative 2 of

337
00:24:45,390 --> 00:24:48,785
5.49, a 1.91% advertised tax increase.

338
00:24:48,785 --> 00:24:55,665
The alternatives generate between $1.2 and
$1.5 million in additional revenue

339
00:24:55,665 --> 00:24:58,166
compared to fiscal year '26.

340
00:24:58,166 --> 00:25:02,187
Both options are less than the proposed
rate,

341
00:25:02,187 --> 00:25:07,458
causing out-year fund balance to fall
below policy minimum.

342
00:25:07,458 --> 00:25:12,641
Prior to reviewing each alternative's
per-resident impact,

343
00:25:12,641 --> 00:25:15,232
the above slide is providing—

344
00:25:15,232 --> 00:25:21,843
is provided to show the last 6 years of
property tax impact on the average

345
00:25:21,843 --> 00:25:27,651
single-family home and homesteaded
properties on an annual basis.

346
00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:34,709
The average homesteaded property in the
City of Largo currently pays $81.79 per

347
00:25:34,709 --> 00:25:39,444
month or $981 per year in property taxes
to the city.

348
00:25:39,444 --> 00:25:45,699
The above 4 options range between a $2.25
to $26.50 per year increase.

349
00:25:45,699 --> 00:25:49,719
A 5.4500 millage amounts to a $1.14
increase,

350
00:25:49,719 --> 00:25:53,204
while 5.4900 would be a $1.75 increase,

351
00:25:53,204 --> 00:25:57,314
Per month on an average homesteaded
household.

352
00:25:57,314 --> 00:25:59,190
As previously stated,

353
00:25:59,190 --> 00:26:06,338
Alternative 1 and 2 generate between $1.2
and $1.5 million in additional revenue

354
00:26:06,338 --> 00:26:08,839
compared to fiscal year '26.

355
00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:11,520
In comparison to the proposed,

356
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:19,025
Alternative 1 would generate $580,000 less
in property tax revenue than the proposed

357
00:26:19,025 --> 00:26:24,564
rate, and Alternative 2 $248,000 less in
property tax revenue.

358
00:26:24,564 --> 00:26:31,980
If directed to bring forth the tentative
budget with the rollback rate or either of

359
00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:35,464
the alternative millage rate scenarios,

360
00:26:35,464 --> 00:26:42,523
additional service level and internal
reductions would need to be considered to

361
00:26:42,523 --> 00:26:45,829
accommodate the change from proposed.

362
00:26:45,829 --> 00:26:48,062
As presented on June 9th,

363
00:26:48,062 --> 00:26:55,299
the above list of reductions have been put
together for consideration. Moving on.

364
00:26:55,299 --> 00:27:01,643
In an effort to provide additional
clarification on the City of Largo's

365
00:27:01,643 --> 00:27:02,179
clarification on the City of Largo's
budget

366
00:27:02,179 --> 00:27:08,791
development, the Office of Performance and
Budget has put together a short

367
00:27:08,791 --> 00:27:14,866
presentation explaining budgetary
estimated unexpended calculations.

368
00:27:14,866 --> 00:27:18,619
Featured in the Long-Range Financial Plan,

369
00:27:18,619 --> 00:27:23,890
which provides the organization's 5-year
financial outlook,

370
00:27:23,890 --> 00:27:30,055
one important aspect is the estimated
unexpended and the way we as an

371
00:27:30,055 --> 00:27:31,127
unexpended and the way we as an
organization

372
00:27:31,127 --> 00:27:33,986
seek to budget based on actuals.

373
00:27:33,986 --> 00:27:41,045
The estimated unexpended is the projected
amount the City of Largo will come in

374
00:27:41,045 --> 00:27:45,601
under budget each year based on prior year
actuals.

375
00:27:45,601 --> 00:27:47,477
This amount is added,

376
00:27:47,477 --> 00:27:54,446
added back to the fund balance calculation
so that rates are not automatically

377
00:27:54,446 --> 00:28:01,058
proposed for increase while allowing
departments to provide for costs, uh,

378
00:28:01,058 --> 00:28:03,738
to provide services each year.

379
00:28:03,738 --> 00:28:10,082
A large portion of what the estimated
unexpended addresses are position

380
00:28:10,082 --> 00:28:10,886
unexpended addresses are position
vacancies

381
00:28:10,886 --> 00:28:14,103
and projects coming in under budget.

382
00:28:14,103 --> 00:28:21,518
Actual, actual and forecasted unexpended
for the general fund Has fallen between 3%

383
00:28:21,518 --> 00:28:28,666
and 5% over the last few years, while the
organization has budgeted 5% annually.

384
00:28:28,666 --> 00:28:34,742
The above slide shows how fund balance is
calculated piece by piece.

385
00:28:34,742 --> 00:28:36,797
Within the calculation,

386
00:28:36,797 --> 00:28:43,587
the graphic shows exactly where the
estimated unexpended reduces expenditure

387
00:28:43,587 --> 00:28:44,212
estimated unexpended reduces expenditure
that is

388
00:28:44,212 --> 00:28:47,786
used to reflect our, our ending balance,

389
00:28:47,786 --> 00:28:52,075
or the amount available At the end of each
year.

390
00:28:52,075 --> 00:28:57,078
Our ending balance, also what is available
for tomorrow,

391
00:28:57,078 --> 00:29:04,047
is then subtracted by the next year's
deficit to provide the unrestricted fund

392
00:29:04,047 --> 00:29:09,944
balance, which we base proposed revenue
and rate policy decisions.

393
00:29:09,944 --> 00:29:16,466
And finally, our final section, City
Commission Direction and Conclusion.

394
00:29:16,466 --> 00:29:22,988
Does City Commission wish to make
additional changes to the budget or tax

395
00:29:22,988 --> 00:29:23,882
additional changes to the budget or tax
rate prior

396
00:29:23,882 --> 00:29:28,796
to the first public hearing on Thursday,
September 3rd?

397
00:29:28,796 --> 00:29:36,430
Thank you. Any, uh, input, comments?

398
00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:38,950
Yeah, I gotta push the button.

399
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:39,757
Mr. Holmes.

400
00:29:39,757 --> 00:29:45,248
Um, looking at this thing, the 5.52 That
gives us cover, the commission, that,

401
00:29:45,248 --> 00:29:45,600
gives us cover, the commission, that,
well,

402
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,050
we didn't raise your taxes, it's still
0.5, 0.52.

403
00:29:49,050 --> 00:29:52,429
Well, in reality we did though, because
when Mr.

404
00:29:52,429 --> 00:29:57,217
Ross turns around and he gets through
reappraising all the property,

405
00:29:57,217 --> 00:30:01,582
what is the increase in property appraisal
in Pinellas County?

406
00:30:01,582 --> 00:30:03,201
Do we have that figure?

407
00:30:03,201 --> 00:30:06,610
The overall increase in property?

408
00:30:06,610 --> 00:30:07,774
Do we know what it is?

409
00:30:07,774 --> 00:30:08,550
It was 4.

410
00:30:08,550 --> 00:30:10,118
I have that number.

411
00:30:10,118 --> 00:30:10,619
If—

412
00:30:10,635 --> 00:30:13,944
I mean, if you, if you have, you know that
it's gone up.

413
00:30:13,944 --> 00:30:18,849
They, they They do this every year, that,
well, last year your house was worth $10.

414
00:30:18,849 --> 00:30:23,754
Well, today your house is worth $11, and
you're going to base the 5.52% on the $11.

415
00:30:23,754 --> 00:30:27,359
Well, that's going to be a substantial
property tax increase.

416
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:31,792
So when you take the 5.52% and you're
going to utilize that on an increased

417
00:30:31,792 --> 00:30:32,205
going to utilize that on an increased
taxable

418
00:30:32,205 --> 00:30:36,519
value, that creates a substantial tax
increase versus we're saying 5.52%,

419
00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:41,188
we're not going to change the amount of
money that's coming out of your pocket.

420
00:30:41,188 --> 00:30:42,488
Well, that's not true.

421
00:30:42,488 --> 00:30:46,211
It will be more money out of their pocket
because of what this—

422
00:30:46,211 --> 00:30:49,698
what the county's doing. It's nothing we
can do about that.

423
00:30:49,698 --> 00:30:54,544
I mean, we can change the figures around
where it looks like it's revenue neutral,

424
00:30:54,544 --> 00:30:57,735
but I'm just saying we can't turn around
and say 5.52,

425
00:30:57,735 --> 00:31:00,867
we're not going to raise your taxes,
because you are.

426
00:31:00,867 --> 00:31:05,536
I mean, not you, we— we are raising the
taxes because the, the values have gone

427
00:31:05,536 --> 00:31:05,713
taxes because the, the values have gone
up.

428
00:31:05,713 --> 00:31:07,604
Well, and that, that's an issue.

429
00:31:09,418 --> 00:31:11,574
Yeah, so in the presentation,

430
00:31:11,574 --> 00:31:16,630
the tax increase at a 5.52 millage rate is
2.6-something, I believe.

431
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:18,236
2.47.

432
00:31:18,236 --> 00:31:22,331
2.47. So that's the proposed tax increase.

433
00:31:22,331 --> 00:31:24,339
Yeah, but we don't know what the value of
the property is.

434
00:31:24,339 --> 00:31:26,828
We, we have a pretty good estimate.

435
00:31:26,828 --> 00:31:30,955
City of Largo preliminary values came in

436
00:31:30,955 --> 00:31:34,875
at 4.16% increase from the prior year.

437
00:31:35,052 --> 00:31:40,299
And so the reason that 2.47 is not 4.46 is
because we had

438
00:31:40,299 --> 00:31:44,993
significant construction of new properties
and some

439
00:31:44,993 --> 00:31:46,098
annexations.

440
00:31:46,098 --> 00:31:46,596
Oh, yeah.

441
00:31:47,722 --> 00:31:51,844
That's a given. It even has a disclaimer
down here on that.

442
00:31:51,844 --> 00:31:54,010
Some of us read all this stuff.

443
00:31:54,010 --> 00:31:57,243
And it was—

444
00:31:57,536 --> 00:32:02,933
Mr. Ross wouldn't be estimating our
values. It would be Mr. Twitty. Mr.

445
00:32:02,933 --> 00:32:04,985
Ross wouldn't probably get—

446
00:32:04,985 --> 00:32:06,117
I was with Ross last night.

447
00:32:06,117 --> 00:32:08,883
We were going to have the coup d'état and
throw him out of office.

448
00:32:08,883 --> 00:32:10,644
But anyway, that's neither here nor there.

449
00:32:10,644 --> 00:32:13,234
Commissioner DeBriesi.

450
00:32:13,234 --> 00:32:15,325
Thank you. Um, a couple things.

451
00:32:15,325 --> 00:32:18,766
The, um, the couple slides about budgeting
process,

452
00:32:18,766 --> 00:32:21,869
and I thought that was really cool. Thank
you.

453
00:32:21,869 --> 00:32:27,265
Um, the only thing I would just caution is
that's not an absolute In the general

454
00:32:27,265 --> 00:32:32,797
fund, it makes all the sense in the world
because we're essentially operating at a

455
00:32:32,797 --> 00:32:34,888
deficit. We've been decreasing,

456
00:32:34,888 --> 00:32:39,880
and so you know we need we need what's
unspent to replenish what is what's

457
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,419
unspent to replenish what is what's
dragging

458
00:32:40,419 --> 00:32:42,713
it down. But when doing budgeting,

459
00:32:42,713 --> 00:32:46,356
and I brought this up last time regarding
solid waste,

460
00:32:46,356 --> 00:32:51,347
and and to briefly go into it is that you
know in a solid waste situation.

461
00:32:51,347 --> 00:32:53,573
We're not operating at a deficit.

462
00:32:53,573 --> 00:32:57,149
We have a growing general fund— I mean,
reserve fund.

463
00:32:57,149 --> 00:33:02,613
In that particular case, we, you know, we
collected the money from the residents.

464
00:33:02,613 --> 00:33:05,918
We spent the money. We reserved what we
budgeted,

465
00:33:05,918 --> 00:33:09,426
and we reserved an additional amount on
top of that.

466
00:33:09,426 --> 00:33:12,192
And then we're asking for an increase to—

467
00:33:12,192 --> 00:33:17,116
which is going to show an even bigger
surplus plus what we're asking for.

468
00:33:17,116 --> 00:33:20,894
So, you know, I just think that's a
perfect opportunity.

469
00:33:20,894 --> 00:33:23,592
I know we'll get that in second reading.

470
00:33:23,592 --> 00:33:23,788
Thank you.

471
00:33:24,128 --> 00:33:26,536
it's a perfect opportunity to, to, you
know,

472
00:33:26,536 --> 00:33:29,546
give money back to the residents because
of some of it,

473
00:33:29,546 --> 00:33:31,789
because of what may happen in the future.

474
00:33:31,789 --> 00:33:36,277
So I just, you know, when we're— I know
for me, when I'm looking at this and, and,

475
00:33:36,277 --> 00:33:39,341
um, you know, you do— you started your
budget last year,

476
00:33:39,341 --> 00:33:42,953
but you do have to factor in what was
spent, what are the actuals,

477
00:33:42,953 --> 00:33:46,401
so that we don't continuously collect
money from the residents.

478
00:33:46,401 --> 00:33:48,918
My favorite Ronald Reagan saying is, you
know,

479
00:33:48,918 --> 00:33:51,764
every time we spend money or give money to
somebody,

480
00:33:51,764 --> 00:33:53,679
we're taking it from somebody else.

481
00:33:53,679 --> 00:33:56,579
And in this case, we're taking it from the
residents.

482
00:33:56,579 --> 00:34:00,137
So, you know, it's just we always have to
look at that, you know,

483
00:34:00,137 --> 00:34:04,405
take that into consideration. And I agree
with you regarding the general fund.

484
00:34:04,405 --> 00:34:07,579
I just— and the other areas that may need
to be looked at.

485
00:34:07,579 --> 00:34:11,629
You know, regarding the millage, you know,
I would love to see it go down.

486
00:34:11,629 --> 00:34:14,638
I think any opportunity to be able to do
that is great.

487
00:34:14,638 --> 00:34:18,962
I'm admittedly a little cautious because
what we know is going to happen in the

488
00:34:18,962 --> 00:34:21,479
future, we may have to raise it in the
future.

489
00:34:21,479 --> 00:34:23,668
But when I look at the slides like this,

490
00:34:23,668 --> 00:34:28,101
and I know the city manager and the staff
are not going to agree with me on this,

491
00:34:28,101 --> 00:34:29,852
but I'm going to say it anyways,

492
00:34:29,852 --> 00:34:33,354
is that every cost we have in the city is
not tied to a program.

493
00:34:33,354 --> 00:34:37,732
So whenever we talk about cuts, they bring
up— they bring up service reductions.

494
00:34:37,732 --> 00:34:41,399
And I know that there, there are— there's
plenty of money to spend,

495
00:34:41,399 --> 00:34:43,369
not hundreds of millions of dollars,

496
00:34:43,369 --> 00:34:46,980
but there is money spent in the city
that's not tied to a program.

497
00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:51,085
I just— every time I see that, I get— I
just— I It bothers me a little bit,

498
00:34:51,085 --> 00:34:54,861
but I understand. You know, there are cuts
to make that have nothing—

499
00:34:54,861 --> 00:34:56,940
that residents are never going to see.

500
00:34:56,940 --> 00:35:01,263
It's not going to cause library hours to
be reduced or anything else like that.

501
00:35:01,263 --> 00:35:04,273
You know, I want to listen to what
everybody else says.

502
00:35:04,273 --> 00:35:08,542
I mean, I said this last time that if it
would have remained the same at 5.52,

503
00:35:08,542 --> 00:35:11,552
it's because we're recognizing that what
may be coming.

504
00:35:11,552 --> 00:35:13,850
So, you know, I very much would, you know,

505
00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:17,735
if we're able to bring it down and
whatever the will of the rest of the

506
00:35:17,735 --> 00:35:18,283
whatever the will of the rest of the
Commission

507
00:35:18,283 --> 00:35:19,815
is, you know, I'm, you know,

508
00:35:19,815 --> 00:35:24,357
I want to be able to try to take advantage
of that as much as we can. So thank you.

509
00:35:24,357 --> 00:35:26,345
Thank you. Commissioner Lowser.

510
00:35:26,345 --> 00:35:31,258
Yeah, so Commissioner DiBrizzi kind of
took some of what I had to say,

511
00:35:31,258 --> 00:35:36,451
but regarding the millage rate, I would
love to see it go down, obviously,

512
00:35:36,451 --> 00:35:41,434
but I think at this point in time, is the
juice worth the Is it really—

513
00:35:41,434 --> 00:35:47,119
is it just showing, you know, going down
to 5.49, is that just kind of, you know,

514
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:49,715
pretending like we lowered something?

515
00:35:49,715 --> 00:35:53,575
Given what we're probably going to be
facing next year,

516
00:35:53,575 --> 00:35:55,821
do we want to start off already—

517
00:35:55,821 --> 00:35:57,152
Further in the hole?

518
00:35:57,152 --> 00:36:00,939
Already in the hole? So I'm comfortable
with 5.52.

519
00:36:00,939 --> 00:36:05,408
We're not technically raising the millage
rate. It's 2.47%.

520
00:36:05,408 --> 00:36:11,012
Um, I like the— I, I like our, uh, our
city's amenities and, and services.

521
00:36:11,012 --> 00:36:16,541
Um, and I'm not looking forward to
probably next year having to have some

522
00:36:16,541 --> 00:36:16,996
probably next year having to have some
really

523
00:36:16,996 --> 00:36:19,571
hard discussions about reductions.

524
00:36:19,667 --> 00:36:22,566
So thank you.

525
00:36:22,662 --> 00:36:22,936
That's where I stand.

526
00:36:23,017 --> 00:36:23,162
Thanks.

527
00:36:23,162 --> 00:36:24,354
Sorry, I forgot one part.

528
00:36:24,354 --> 00:36:28,025
You know, and part of what makes me feel a
little bit about that is, is that,

529
00:36:28,025 --> 00:36:31,315
you know, we have salt, we have wastewater
at 0% next year, which is,

530
00:36:31,315 --> 00:36:34,748
which is great. You know, hopefully when
we have the conversation about,

531
00:36:34,748 --> 00:36:37,179
about solid waste, we can even give
further relief.

532
00:36:37,179 --> 00:36:39,182
So, you know, if we're going to leave the—

533
00:36:39,182 --> 00:36:43,139
if we're going to leave the millage as it
is, if that ends up being the case, then,

534
00:36:43,139 --> 00:36:46,620
you know, let's look for other
opportunities to be able to provide relief

535
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:46,906
opportunities to be able to provide relief
to the

536
00:36:46,906 --> 00:36:48,050
residents. So thank you.

537
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:50,130
Thank you. Commissioner Johnson?

538
00:36:50,130 --> 00:36:53,806
Yeah, I, I want to echo Commissioner
Lauser that, you know,

539
00:36:53,806 --> 00:36:56,922
this year just seems like a bad year to
reduction.

540
00:36:56,922 --> 00:37:01,969
You know, I think, you know, a strategy
just with the language of this, you know,

541
00:37:01,969 --> 00:37:06,766
constitutional amendment is that you would
want to go up this year, you know,

542
00:37:06,766 --> 00:37:08,947
because you have an opportunity to.

543
00:37:08,947 --> 00:37:11,564
And I think, you know, just because again,

544
00:37:11,564 --> 00:37:16,674
when you look at the catastrophic results
to our budget, if this amendment passes,

545
00:37:16,674 --> 00:37:20,848
I think we're, you know, we're going to
have a lot of tough, tough,

546
00:37:20,848 --> 00:37:26,020
tough decisions to do even with everything
we can think of to add back into the mix

547
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:29,322
or change or whatever, it's going to be
catastrophic.

548
00:37:29,322 --> 00:37:32,811
So I think, you know, I think the fair
thing to do here,

549
00:37:32,811 --> 00:37:36,862
even though I'd love to see us cut the
rate, would be to hold it.

550
00:37:36,862 --> 00:37:41,036
I think it's— that is being conservative
in a time where, you know,

551
00:37:41,036 --> 00:37:43,965
I could definitely make an argument that,
like,

552
00:37:43,965 --> 00:37:49,136
this might be a time to increase because
we are going to have such a big deficit to

553
00:37:49,136 --> 00:37:54,183
make up for next year and with a capped
out increase of 5% if this passes the way

554
00:37:54,183 --> 00:37:57,735
it's written, which, you know, it's the
way it's written,

555
00:37:57,735 --> 00:38:00,726
so it's the way it's going to pass if it
passes.

556
00:38:00,726 --> 00:38:05,773
So, you know, and I think to look at the
things we'll have to do in order to make

557
00:38:05,773 --> 00:38:10,757
that work, I, you know, I think we just
have to continue to inform our citizens,

558
00:38:10,757 --> 00:38:15,991
you know, of what kind of cuts we're going
to have to do if this this amendment does

559
00:38:15,991 --> 00:38:20,851
pass and make sure that they're fully
aware of what we're going to have to do,

560
00:38:20,851 --> 00:38:25,400
you know, what that's going to look like.
So not looking forward to that.

561
00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:27,382
That's all.

562
00:38:27,495 --> 00:38:31,913
Thank you. So I support 5.52.

563
00:38:31,913 --> 00:38:35,120
Thank you. Any more discussion?

564
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:38,265
All right.

565
00:38:38,945 --> 00:38:39,592
Moving on, I guess.

566
00:38:39,592 --> 00:38:40,336
All right.

567
00:38:41,047 --> 00:38:43,615
That would be it for us on this item.

568
00:38:43,615 --> 00:38:49,374
Uh, next time you will see me will be on
September 3rd for the first public hearing

569
00:38:49,374 --> 00:38:53,191
of the tentative millage rate and budget
adoption vote.

570
00:38:53,191 --> 00:38:54,491
Thank you.

571
00:38:54,571 --> 00:38:57,860
Thank you, Mr. McIntosh, as well for, for
your input and your—

572
00:38:57,860 --> 00:39:01,149
the work of your entire committee. We
certainly appreciate it.

573
00:39:01,149 --> 00:39:01,887
Absolutely.

574
00:39:01,887 --> 00:39:03,764
Thank you.

575
00:39:04,261 --> 00:39:09,379
Next up is chronic nuisance ordinance and
short-term vacation rental ordinance.

576
00:39:09,588 --> 00:39:26,165
Updates.

577
00:39:54,906 --> 00:39:57,278
Good afternoon, Mayor and Commission.

578
00:39:57,278 --> 00:40:02,470
Chase Burgeon, the Community Standards
Manager, and today I'll be discussing, uh,

579
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:06,764
2 ordinances that will be tentatively for
first reading next month.

580
00:40:06,764 --> 00:40:12,149
That is the chronic nuisance ordinance and
the short-term vacation rental ordinance.

581
00:40:12,149 --> 00:40:15,482
First, we'll go over the chronic nuisance
ordinance.

582
00:40:15,482 --> 00:40:19,520
This is a new addition to Chapter 11 of
the Code of Ordinances.

583
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,135
This will identify and define chronic
nuisances, create rules, policies,

584
00:40:24,135 --> 00:40:27,340
and practices relating to those chronic
nuisances,

585
00:40:27,340 --> 00:40:32,276
and also outline the enforcement actions
and the hearing procedures for those

586
00:40:32,276 --> 00:40:37,468
chronic nuisances. This is part of the
direction from the commission back when we

587
00:40:37,468 --> 00:40:39,263
had the work session in May.

588
00:40:39,263 --> 00:40:43,621
You wanted some enhanced enforcement
actions for short-term rentals.

589
00:40:43,621 --> 00:40:48,108
This will address some of those issues
coming from short-term rentals,

590
00:40:48,108 --> 00:40:53,364
but also have the ability to address some
other nuisance properties throughout the

591
00:40:53,364 --> 00:40:57,403
community, not just short-term rentals. So
how is this handled?

592
00:40:57,403 --> 00:41:02,018
This would first be by noticing these
nuisance activities, specifically.

593
00:41:02,018 --> 00:41:06,441
Anything that's outlined in our code of
ordinances or state statutes,

594
00:41:06,441 --> 00:41:11,440
specifically some of the ones I have here,
pertain just to short-term rentals,

595
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,671
which would be you know open house
parties, parking issues, noise,

596
00:41:15,671 --> 00:41:18,683
disorderly intoxication, or disorderly
conduct.

597
00:41:18,683 --> 00:41:21,568
All of those could be cited, and as a
result,

598
00:41:21,568 --> 00:41:24,196
with this new chronic nuisance ordinance,

599
00:41:24,196 --> 00:41:29,324
we could declare a property a chronic
nuisance if there is a pattern of nuisance

600
00:41:29,324 --> 00:41:34,195
activity documented. by either community
standards or the police department.

601
00:41:34,195 --> 00:41:39,067
Once that is documented, we are able to
implement what is called a creative—

602
00:41:39,067 --> 00:41:43,426
or corrective action plan that is to
address that nuisance activity.

603
00:41:43,426 --> 00:41:45,605
And then if those aren't followed,

604
00:41:45,605 --> 00:41:50,861
those violations of the corrective action
plan can actually be sent to the special

605
00:41:50,861 --> 00:41:55,604
magistrate for further enforcement. And
what are some of those enforcement

606
00:41:55,604 --> 00:41:56,117
what are some of those enforcement
actions?

607
00:41:56,117 --> 00:42:00,732
When you have a chronic nuisance issued
order by the special magistrate,

608
00:42:00,732 --> 00:42:05,476
they have the ability on top of just fines
of those any violations of city

609
00:42:05,476 --> 00:42:10,155
ordinances, they can authorize city to
utilize chronic nuisance services,

610
00:42:10,155 --> 00:42:14,898
which would be abatement of those
violations, or to seek judicial actions,

611
00:42:14,898 --> 00:42:20,090
which in that case would be an injunction
to once again correct those violations.

612
00:42:20,090 --> 00:42:25,346
And that is just a brief overview of that
chronic nuisance ordinance, which again,

613
00:42:25,346 --> 00:42:29,641
that would address, give community
standards police department some

614
00:42:29,641 --> 00:42:30,282
standards police department some
additional

615
00:42:30,282 --> 00:42:35,346
enforcement options when it comes to
addressing some of the issues we're seeing

616
00:42:35,346 --> 00:42:35,474
addressing some of the issues we're seeing
at

617
00:42:35,474 --> 00:42:37,077
those short-term rentals.

618
00:42:37,077 --> 00:42:41,243
Moving on to the short-term vacation
rentals, just as a reminder,

619
00:42:41,243 --> 00:42:43,871
I'm sure we've discussed this previously.

620
00:42:43,871 --> 00:42:47,076
We are restricted by a couple legislative
matters,

621
00:42:47,076 --> 00:42:50,666
the first being State Statute 509.032,
which was passed.

622
00:42:50,666 --> 00:42:55,217
Back in 2011, um, that stated if you did
not have language in your, um,

623
00:42:55,217 --> 00:42:57,524
city ordinances by June 1st of 2011,

624
00:42:57,524 --> 00:43:02,460
you are not allowed to prohibit the
operation of vacation rentals or regulate

625
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:02,780
operation of vacation rentals or regulate
their

626
00:43:02,780 --> 00:43:04,767
duration or frequency of stays.

627
00:43:04,767 --> 00:43:07,716
Um, additionally, back, um, last year in
2025,

628
00:43:07,716 --> 00:43:11,434
in response to the 2024 hurricane season,
um, to help, um,

629
00:43:11,434 --> 00:43:14,510
communities recover They passed Senate
Bill 180.

630
00:43:14,510 --> 00:43:19,510
However, that does have language that any
changes to the Land Development Code

631
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:22,587
cannot be deemed more burdensome or
restrictive.

632
00:43:22,587 --> 00:43:27,074
And because our current short-term
vacation rental ordinance is in the

633
00:43:27,074 --> 00:43:27,907
vacation rental ordinance is in the
Comprehensive

634
00:43:27,907 --> 00:43:32,907
Development Code, it is preempted by this
Senate bill that is set to expire in

635
00:43:32,907 --> 00:43:34,253
October of next year.

636
00:43:34,253 --> 00:43:39,509
So going over a recent timeline of actions
related to short-term vacation rentals.

637
00:43:39,509 --> 00:43:41,432
If you remember back in April,

638
00:43:41,432 --> 00:43:46,496
they had several concerned residents come
and speak before the commission for a

639
00:43:46,496 --> 00:43:48,611
couple nuisance vacation rentals.

640
00:43:48,611 --> 00:43:53,803
You directed staff to hold a meeting with
these residents to sort of explain what

641
00:43:53,803 --> 00:43:56,688
our current ordinance was, how we enforce
it,

642
00:43:56,688 --> 00:44:01,815
what we were restricted by relating to the
state preemption and Senate Bill 180,

643
00:44:01,815 --> 00:44:06,559
and also talk about potential future
changes to short-term vacation rental

644
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:11,751
ordinance. Um, we had a work session back
in May where you gave us direction, um,

645
00:44:11,751 --> 00:44:15,789
to require registration, um, enhance those
enforcement options,

646
00:44:15,789 --> 00:44:20,532
and add just a little bit more language to
the short-term vacation rental,

647
00:44:20,532 --> 00:44:22,007
which the proposed, um,

648
00:44:22,007 --> 00:44:26,237
ordinance for the first reading coming up
next month does include.

649
00:44:26,237 --> 00:44:29,186
Um, then just last week at the planning
board,

650
00:44:29,186 --> 00:44:34,250
we presented those changes Seeing that the
short-term vacation rental is in the

651
00:44:34,250 --> 00:44:36,237
comprehensive development code,

652
00:44:36,237 --> 00:44:41,236
the planning board did approve those
changes to the short-term vacation rental

653
00:44:41,236 --> 00:44:42,647
ordinance, a 6-1 vote.

654
00:44:42,647 --> 00:44:46,621
And now we're here today to discuss these
changes and updates.

655
00:44:46,621 --> 00:44:51,364
And like I said, the proposed reading will
be next month on September 1st.

656
00:44:51,364 --> 00:44:54,441
That will be for the short-term vacation
rental,

657
00:44:54,441 --> 00:44:57,069
the companion Chronic nuisance ordinance,

658
00:44:57,069 --> 00:45:01,876
and then we're also updating our fee
schedule to include those registration

659
00:45:01,876 --> 00:45:02,389
schedule to include those registration
fees for

660
00:45:02,389 --> 00:45:04,440
the short-term vacation rentals.

661
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,312
So there will be 3 separate agenda items
coming before you on September 1st.

662
00:45:09,312 --> 00:45:14,183
And just to give you some updated numbers
when it comes to vacation rentals,

663
00:45:14,183 --> 00:45:19,247
because there was some discussion last
week at the planning board pertaining to

664
00:45:19,247 --> 00:45:22,196
enforcement, just this year since January
1st,

665
00:45:22,196 --> 00:45:25,593
we've had 81 short-term vacation rental
cases opened.

666
00:45:25,593 --> 00:45:27,580
Once again, these are reactive.

667
00:45:27,580 --> 00:45:32,452
We are still not yet proactive when it
comes to vacation rental enforcement.

668
00:45:32,452 --> 00:45:36,874
Of those 81, 13 of those cases have been
heard before our code board.

669
00:45:36,874 --> 00:45:41,233
Those cases are averaging about 4
violations of the cited city code.

670
00:45:41,233 --> 00:45:46,041
Those are usually the violations
pertaining to not going through the proper

671
00:45:46,041 --> 00:45:49,053
registration, not having your internal
posting,

672
00:45:49,053 --> 00:45:53,861
not having your designated responsible
party posted, things of that nature.

673
00:45:53,861 --> 00:45:58,604
And then of those cases that have gone and
been cited of those violations,

674
00:45:58,604 --> 00:46:03,091
that average daily fine amount is coming
to around $200 per violation.

675
00:46:03,091 --> 00:46:07,193
They are capped at $250 is the maximum for
first-time violators.

676
00:46:07,193 --> 00:46:10,719
And this is some updated data from the
fire department.

677
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,757
They are now at 370 total vacation rental
properties inspected.

678
00:46:14,757 --> 00:46:19,693
With 851 actual inspections, and they are
showing, um, 306 active properties.

679
00:46:19,693 --> 00:46:24,756
We know, um, doing some demos of the
software we're potentially going to use to

680
00:46:24,756 --> 00:46:25,013
software we're potentially going to use to
help

681
00:46:25,013 --> 00:46:27,577
track these short-term vacation rentals,

682
00:46:27,577 --> 00:46:30,653
that there's a lot more out there than
just 306.

683
00:46:30,653 --> 00:46:35,333
So getting this ordinance updated, getting
the staffing and the software,

684
00:46:35,333 --> 00:46:37,256
will really help us, you know,

685
00:46:37,256 --> 00:46:41,743
be more proactive and address all the
issues for all short-term rental

686
00:46:41,743 --> 00:46:42,576
issues for all short-term rental
properties in

687
00:46:42,576 --> 00:46:46,165
the city limits. And then, um, they're
still facing, uh,

688
00:46:46,165 --> 00:46:48,665
the common issues when it comes to, um,

689
00:46:48,665 --> 00:46:53,088
fire issues when they do their high-hazard
inspections, which is, um,

690
00:46:53,088 --> 00:46:55,203
not having the fire extinguisher,

691
00:46:55,203 --> 00:46:59,562
either not having the smoke alarms
hardwired or not having them all,

692
00:46:59,562 --> 00:47:02,831
and then not having the clear, um, means
of egress.

693
00:47:02,831 --> 00:47:06,164
And that concludes the update on those 2
ordinances.

694
00:47:06,164 --> 00:47:09,206
Staff is available for any questions.

695
00:47:12,206 --> 00:47:13,474
Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Smith?

696
00:47:13,474 --> 00:47:18,944
Uh, more comments. As the, uh, Commission
liaison to the Planning Board, uh,

697
00:47:18,944 --> 00:47:21,968
just kind of give you a little background.

698
00:47:21,968 --> 00:47:27,870
Um, there were about maybe 30— 25 to 30
people there. Um, 11 did get up and speak.

699
00:47:27,870 --> 00:47:32,477
Um, Commissioner— or, uh, uh, the board,
um, felt the direction.

700
00:47:32,477 --> 00:47:38,091
One of the concerns was that the language
is not communicated between the code

701
00:47:38,091 --> 00:47:40,251
enforcement, planning, and us.

702
00:47:40,251 --> 00:47:45,865
Um, they want it kind of wondering if we
would request a joint meeting of the—

703
00:47:45,865 --> 00:47:51,551
of us with the planning board and the code
enforcement so we're all on one page

704
00:47:51,551 --> 00:47:57,094
basically on this. Because once, uh,
planning doesn't have any teeth on what—

705
00:47:57,094 --> 00:48:00,693
how fines are, um, enforced or anything
like that,

706
00:48:00,693 --> 00:48:06,307
their concern from what I kind of got was
their Concern that people, you know,

707
00:48:06,307 --> 00:48:10,194
you go to, you follow through on the code
enforcement,

708
00:48:10,194 --> 00:48:13,145
they bring down your fines kind of thing.

709
00:48:13,145 --> 00:48:18,976
They felt that, that they wanted to know
where they, where we stood on, you know,

710
00:48:18,976 --> 00:48:24,734
if someone moved forward on that, would
we, would they allow decreased on fines?

711
00:48:24,734 --> 00:48:30,708
At the time, Chair Faustini did ask in the
audience how many people in the audience

712
00:48:30,708 --> 00:48:33,228
felt that this should move forward.

713
00:48:33,228 --> 00:48:38,482
Forward, and almost everybody raised— or
was against moving this forward.

714
00:48:38,482 --> 00:48:42,513
Everybody in the audience pretty much
raised their hand.

715
00:48:42,513 --> 00:48:48,487
That was kind of the direction where I was
asked by Chair Faustini the direction of

716
00:48:48,487 --> 00:48:51,871
this Commission, where we were going with
this,

717
00:48:51,871 --> 00:48:57,413
and kind of wanted to clarify that if we
stopped right now by them voting no,

718
00:48:57,413 --> 00:49:02,667
It's not giving staff the foundation to
move forward on these ordinances,

719
00:49:02,667 --> 00:49:06,123
and it would just draw out a lot longer
process.

720
00:49:06,123 --> 00:49:11,377
Their concern was it didn't have teeth
that they thought should be there.

721
00:49:11,377 --> 00:49:15,192
The city attorney spoke knowledgeably
about what was—

722
00:49:15,192 --> 00:49:19,583
why we can't do that and why we're going
down this direction.

723
00:49:19,583 --> 00:49:25,197
At the end of the meeting, I will say I
met with many of them that were there.

724
00:49:25,197 --> 00:49:29,876
Their concern was that they just— they
don't— from what I gather,

725
00:49:29,876 --> 00:49:33,403
they don't understand the Senate bill part
of it,

726
00:49:33,403 --> 00:49:38,801
and they think we should be able to do it
right now and be able to go after

727
00:49:38,801 --> 00:49:44,056
everybody. So just to kind of give you an
overview of the Planning Board,

728
00:49:44,056 --> 00:49:46,071
they felt that, like I said,

729
00:49:46,071 --> 00:49:51,974
they would request this Commission have a
joint 3-board meeting so everybody is on

730
00:49:51,974 --> 00:49:54,565
the same page. So that's all I have.

731
00:49:54,645 --> 00:49:54,789
Thank you.

732
00:49:54,789 --> 00:49:54,965
Thank you.

733
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:55,319
Thank you.

734
00:49:55,383 --> 00:49:56,282
Commissioner Lauser.

735
00:49:56,282 --> 00:49:58,829
Yeah, thanks. I just have a few questions.

736
00:49:58,829 --> 00:50:03,194
Um, so for the nuisance ordinance, and,
and I understand, you know, the,

737
00:50:03,194 --> 00:50:07,014
the police are involved in, in quite a bit
of that after hours.

738
00:50:07,014 --> 00:50:10,773
Is there, or will there be, um, you know,
set up a, a way for,

739
00:50:10,773 --> 00:50:13,866
for the police and code enforcement to
communicate,

740
00:50:13,866 --> 00:50:16,594
or is there already a way for that to
happen?

741
00:50:16,594 --> 00:50:21,121
Yes, I actually just said, uh, the code
board hearing last month,

742
00:50:21,121 --> 00:50:26,345
I used evidence of body cam footage and
evidence report from a PD call in a

743
00:50:26,345 --> 00:50:27,042
code case.

744
00:50:27,042 --> 00:50:28,068
Good.

745
00:50:28,196 --> 00:50:30,191
Yeah, I guess from both ways, right?

746
00:50:30,191 --> 00:50:34,401
So if a police officer is getting called
out to a property, he may not know—

747
00:50:34,401 --> 00:50:36,064
he may not have been the last—

748
00:50:36,064 --> 00:50:40,441
at the last 2 times that they were called
out for a party or for a disturbance.

749
00:50:40,441 --> 00:50:44,485
So he may not know that this is the 3rd
time, this is actually a nuisance

750
00:50:44,485 --> 00:50:44,984
time, this is actually a nuisance
property.

751
00:50:44,984 --> 00:50:46,092
Is there a way that—

752
00:50:46,092 --> 00:50:49,310
Yeah, we would develop some type of
internal process to say, hey,

753
00:50:49,310 --> 00:50:52,826
this is your first, you know, citation of
a nuisance activity that way,

754
00:50:52,826 --> 00:50:56,886
because the language in the ordinance says
if you're cited for nuisance activity 3

755
00:50:56,886 --> 00:51:00,054
times within 30 days, or I believe it's 7
times within 6 months,

756
00:51:00,054 --> 00:51:02,926
then we can move forward with that
corrective action plan.

757
00:51:02,926 --> 00:51:06,144
They enter what's called a nuisance
abatement plan with the city,

758
00:51:06,144 --> 00:51:09,858
and then if they don't follow that, we can
take further corrective actions,

759
00:51:09,858 --> 00:51:11,244
further enforcement actions.

760
00:51:11,244 --> 00:51:15,129
And multiple calls at a single address are
captured in our CAD system anyway.

761
00:51:15,129 --> 00:51:18,913
So when an officer goes out to a A party
complaint or any kind of incident,

762
00:51:18,913 --> 00:51:21,990
and they have the history of that
residence going back years.

763
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:25,219
So they would know whether or not they've
been out there or not.

764
00:51:25,219 --> 00:51:26,044
Good. Thank you.

765
00:51:26,044 --> 00:51:27,323
Yes, sir.

766
00:51:27,323 --> 00:51:31,591
And so, um, on the short-term vacation
rental side, people are currently—

767
00:51:31,591 --> 00:51:35,568
technically it's in the code, they're
required to register, correct?

768
00:51:35,568 --> 00:51:38,842
So the registration piece isn't new, it's
just the cost.

769
00:51:38,842 --> 00:51:42,752
The registration is new. It's the— the
inspections are already in there.

770
00:51:42,752 --> 00:51:46,662
So the inspections are currently required.
They continue to be required.

771
00:51:46,662 --> 00:51:50,029
The actual registration is the new
component of the ordinance.

772
00:51:50,029 --> 00:51:53,047
Okay. And how much is the registration?
What did we come down on that?

773
00:51:53,047 --> 00:51:59,292
My suggestion will be $600 for the initial
and the annual renewal. Okay.

774
00:51:59,918 --> 00:52:05,061
And is there any other cost associated? So
say, say I'm a— I'm an Airbnb owner.

775
00:52:05,061 --> 00:52:09,684
I, I don't have nuisance, you know, I'm
doing, doing a responsible job.

776
00:52:09,684 --> 00:52:12,158
What is the, what is the overall cost?

777
00:52:12,158 --> 00:52:15,739
Is there anything other than the $600
registration fee?

778
00:52:15,739 --> 00:52:17,627
Is it going to cost me money?

779
00:52:17,627 --> 00:52:21,439
If you do your annual registration, pass
your code inspection,

780
00:52:21,439 --> 00:52:24,452
pass your fire inspection, and you're good
to go.

781
00:52:24,452 --> 00:52:25,928
We'll see you in a year.

782
00:52:25,928 --> 00:52:29,197
So does that $600 include the fire
inspection?

783
00:52:29,982 --> 00:52:30,127
Okay.

784
00:52:30,127 --> 00:52:33,508
That would be separate. The high hazard is
separate.

785
00:52:33,508 --> 00:52:35,014
So it's a separate fee?

786
00:52:35,014 --> 00:52:35,463
Yes.

787
00:52:36,674 --> 00:52:38,635
How much is that high-hazard inspection?

788
00:52:38,635 --> 00:52:39,753
It's $100 right now.

789
00:52:39,753 --> 00:52:42,557
So the— so it'd be $700 then total?

790
00:52:42,557 --> 00:52:43,092
Total, yes.

791
00:52:43,092 --> 00:52:47,919
All right, thank you. Uh, Commissioner
DeBreezy.

792
00:52:47,919 --> 00:52:50,477
Thank you. Regarding the nuisance
ordinance,

793
00:52:50,477 --> 00:52:53,093
so being drunk in your house isn't a
problem.

794
00:52:53,093 --> 00:52:55,535
Disorderlies becomes a problem, obviously.

795
00:52:55,535 --> 00:53:00,243
Um, so is, is the nuisance ordinance we're
writing clear enough that It's not the

796
00:53:00,243 --> 00:53:02,336
people who are drunk and disorderly,

797
00:53:02,336 --> 00:53:05,185
it's the fact that they're doing it in the
house.

798
00:53:05,185 --> 00:53:09,429
Because on a Saturday night, there's a
party in— or if it's a loud party,

799
00:53:09,429 --> 00:53:11,928
or if it's drunk people, or whatever it
is,

800
00:53:11,928 --> 00:53:14,835
those people are probably going to be gone
Sunday,

801
00:53:14,835 --> 00:53:19,021
and then the next week it's going to be a
whole different set of people.

802
00:53:19,021 --> 00:53:22,974
So we're citing the house and not the
people? Is that— are we clear?

803
00:53:22,974 --> 00:53:23,962
Is— are we clear?

804
00:53:23,962 --> 00:53:26,786
Just like any other code ordinance, we are
citing the property.

805
00:53:26,786 --> 00:53:30,463
So even if it's a rental property and you
have in your lease that they're supposed

806
00:53:30,463 --> 00:53:34,049
to maintain the grass, if it's overgrown,
we're still citing the property owner,

807
00:53:34,049 --> 00:53:36,470
not the tenant, even if it's in their
lease agreement.

808
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:39,975
All right. Just want to look and make sure
no one's going to try to find a loophole.

809
00:53:39,975 --> 00:53:43,230
So it wasn't— it wasn't— you know, it was
a different set of people. So, okay.

810
00:53:43,230 --> 00:53:45,770
Thank you. Commissioner Holmes.

811
00:53:45,770 --> 00:53:46,998
Well, yeah, you know,

812
00:53:46,998 --> 00:53:51,266
you got an integration here between code
enforcement and law enforcement.

813
00:53:51,266 --> 00:53:55,885
I mean, if you've got a drunken orgy going
on at one of these vacation rentals,

814
00:53:55,885 --> 00:54:00,562
That's not a call for code enforcement.
That's a call for the police department.

815
00:54:00,562 --> 00:54:03,485
And that's why, if you're going to have a
meeting,

816
00:54:03,485 --> 00:54:07,636
I think what you need to do is have a
meeting with the city commission,

817
00:54:07,636 --> 00:54:09,507
city manager, police department,

818
00:54:09,507 --> 00:54:13,659
and code enforcement to figure out who's
on first and what's on second.

819
00:54:13,659 --> 00:54:15,588
Who's got the prior call on this?

820
00:54:15,588 --> 00:54:19,096
And I think personally it ought to be the
police department.

821
00:54:19,096 --> 00:54:23,773
You know, now I'm not talking about an
inspection on a vacation rental where you

822
00:54:23,773 --> 00:54:23,890
inspection on a vacation rental where you
go

823
00:54:23,890 --> 00:54:25,060
out there. you know,

824
00:54:25,060 --> 00:54:29,737
and get the $600 for the permit and get
the fire inspections and stuff like that

825
00:54:29,737 --> 00:54:33,479
done. But when you get into some of this
stuff, I mean, there's—

826
00:54:33,479 --> 00:54:37,396
those people that were down at Carlton
Estates, assuming that they—

827
00:54:37,396 --> 00:54:39,559
what they were telling us was gospel,

828
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:42,775
that was some pretty serious stuff going
on down there.

829
00:54:42,775 --> 00:54:47,218
And that was stuff that was above and
beyond what code enforcement could do.

830
00:54:47,218 --> 00:54:48,680
That was law enforcement.

831
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,878
Yes, we have continued to counsel the
residents that they should be calling the

832
00:54:52,878 --> 00:54:57,075
police department if there is activity
That is not appropriate that's happening

833
00:54:57,075 --> 00:54:57,181
That is not appropriate that's happening
in

834
00:54:57,181 --> 00:54:59,413
the evenings and on the weekends. That is—

835
00:54:59,413 --> 00:55:01,320
I remember when those people came here.

836
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,939
I mean, I was just going, boy, good thing
they don't live next door to me.

837
00:55:04,939 --> 00:55:06,309
I'd be in jail for homicide.

838
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:09,536
But anyway, but I'm just saying that you
get this thing, you know,

839
00:55:09,536 --> 00:55:13,204
make sure that it's in order of, you know,
here's the order of enforcement.

840
00:55:13,204 --> 00:55:15,698
You know, PD goes out there and they say,
well, no,

841
00:55:15,698 --> 00:55:19,170
this is just something code enforcement
needs to come out and write up.

842
00:55:19,170 --> 00:55:20,442
All right, fine and dandy.

843
00:55:21,020 --> 00:55:21,309
Absolutely.

844
00:55:21,357 --> 00:55:23,540
If there's that match, That's a piece of
cake.

845
00:55:23,540 --> 00:55:26,622
If there's criminal activity, obviously,
you know, criminal—

846
00:55:26,622 --> 00:55:28,419
that department will take the lead.

847
00:55:28,419 --> 00:55:32,374
Um, but if there are subsequent code
violations, then they can obviously loop

848
00:55:32,374 --> 00:55:32,682
violations, then they can obviously loop
us in.

849
00:55:32,682 --> 00:55:34,788
Like I said, we've used body cam footage,

850
00:55:34,788 --> 00:55:38,846
we use their event reports in our code
cases to help document the violations of

851
00:55:38,846 --> 00:55:39,051
cases to help document the violations of
code

852
00:55:39,051 --> 00:55:39,616
violations.

853
00:55:39,616 --> 00:55:43,989
I think the key is that we communicate
back and forth between Community Standards

854
00:55:43,989 --> 00:55:46,742
and police all the time. It's just a
routine basis.

855
00:55:46,742 --> 00:55:49,064
If we go out there and it's something
like—

856
00:55:49,064 --> 00:55:53,167
even if it's a house party late at night
and we're limited on what we can do

857
00:55:53,167 --> 00:55:53,545
and we're limited on what we can do
because

858
00:55:53,545 --> 00:55:57,054
We can't access the house, they're not
opening the door, they're—

859
00:55:57,054 --> 00:56:00,401
the noise isn't too loud for us to do any
kind of enforcement.

860
00:56:00,401 --> 00:56:04,289
We'll communicate with Community Standards
and see if they can have any,

861
00:56:04,289 --> 00:56:07,366
but it's a backwards conversation to see
what's the best,

862
00:56:07,366 --> 00:56:11,307
best method to get there and just get
compliance and for the peace of the

863
00:56:11,307 --> 00:56:11,847
compliance and for the peace of the
neighbors.

864
00:56:11,847 --> 00:56:13,642
Thank you.

865
00:56:13,642 --> 00:56:16,649
Thank you. Vice Mayor Dawson.

866
00:56:16,649 --> 00:56:20,624
Yeah, I wanted to I happened to— this
weekend, I was up in Georgia,

867
00:56:20,624 --> 00:56:24,836
and I met the short-term rental
enforcement, code enforcement person up

868
00:56:24,836 --> 00:56:25,192
enforcement, code enforcement person up
there.

869
00:56:25,192 --> 00:56:30,116
I happened to take a picture of his car. I
sent it to everyone. It was interesting.

870
00:56:30,116 --> 00:56:34,566
He works weekends for Putnam County and
during the week for another county.

871
00:56:34,566 --> 00:56:37,295
And I asked him, I said, if you— in a
perfect—

872
00:56:37,295 --> 00:56:40,617
I asked him if he has a lot of problems,
and he said no,

873
00:56:40,617 --> 00:56:42,515
but they have very strict rules.

874
00:56:42,515 --> 00:56:45,244
And I said, what makes you the most
effective,

875
00:56:45,244 --> 00:56:47,973
and what kinds of things are you dealing
with?

876
00:56:47,973 --> 00:56:52,126
You know, he said if he could, in a
perfect world, have it be able to—

877
00:56:52,126 --> 00:56:56,576
they have a 3 strikes rule, 3 strikes in a
year, and you lose your license.

878
00:56:56,576 --> 00:56:58,652
And the owners take that seriously.

879
00:56:58,652 --> 00:57:03,220
They're not going to take a chance of
killing their revenue without that, you

880
00:57:03,220 --> 00:57:03,517
killing their revenue without that, you
know,

881
00:57:03,517 --> 00:57:04,822
if they get 3 strikes.

882
00:57:04,822 --> 00:57:09,212
Now, he doesn't— he's like, I very rarely
have to actually write a ticket.

883
00:57:09,212 --> 00:57:13,306
I usually just have to either talk to the
people there, or I talk to—

884
00:57:13,306 --> 00:57:13,739
The owners.

885
00:57:14,092 --> 00:57:17,678
Or I call the— because they have everyone
in a database,

886
00:57:17,678 --> 00:57:20,880
they can call the person responsible for
the home.

887
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,185
And he said it's— I never, you know,

888
00:57:23,185 --> 00:57:27,796
almost never have to write an actual
enforcement ticket because of that.

889
00:57:27,796 --> 00:57:31,895
So, you know, he did say very important to
work on the weekends.

890
00:57:31,895 --> 00:57:36,826
You know, he worked 7 days a week, which,
you know, we're not expecting that,

891
00:57:36,826 --> 00:57:39,323
but he worked for 2 different counties.

892
00:57:39,323 --> 00:57:43,934
But, you know, he did say, you know,
Friday, Saturday, Sundays, biggest,

893
00:57:43,934 --> 00:57:47,136
busiest time. So you got to have
enforcement then.

894
00:57:47,136 --> 00:57:51,042
But he said without that, without the
owner of the, you know,

895
00:57:51,042 --> 00:57:56,357
short-term rental having skin in the game
for like a problem and renting to problem

896
00:57:56,357 --> 00:58:01,224
tenants, that you're going to have
problems because he said his other county

897
00:58:01,224 --> 00:58:01,545
problems because he said his other county
isn't

898
00:58:01,545 --> 00:58:06,475
as strict. And so they're, they have more
ongoing problems at certain houses.

899
00:58:06,475 --> 00:58:08,973
So I just thought that was interesting.

900
00:58:09,310 --> 00:58:09,615
I actually—

901
00:58:09,647 --> 00:58:13,724
he's going to write me a little if I could
do this over again list,

902
00:58:13,724 --> 00:58:16,280
so I'll give that to staff after I get it.

903
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,662
But he was a fantastic guy, long
conversations, and I learned a ton from

904
00:58:20,662 --> 00:58:20,905
conversations, and I learned a ton from
him.

905
00:58:20,905 --> 00:58:25,043
My wife was very irritated with me because
I kept her from shopping,

906
00:58:25,043 --> 00:58:27,721
but we had a good time, a good
conversation.

907
00:58:27,721 --> 00:58:31,433
He was super friendly and with lots of
great information. So—

908
00:58:31,433 --> 00:58:32,363
I love the car.

909
00:58:32,716 --> 00:58:36,891
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the fact is, you
know, he has a big wrap on that car.

910
00:58:36,891 --> 00:58:39,562
And he, when he's driving through
neighborhoods,

911
00:58:39,562 --> 00:58:43,514
people come out and they'll point out
issues at STRs that they've seen.

912
00:58:43,514 --> 00:58:45,128
So he can go down and see it.

913
00:58:45,128 --> 00:58:47,800
But he also gives the neighbors a sense of
this,

914
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,919
there's a patrol coming through my
neighborhood that's paying attention to

915
00:58:51,919 --> 00:58:52,253
neighborhood that's paying attention to
these,

916
00:58:52,253 --> 00:58:56,762
especially these neighborhoods that happen
to have a lot of short-term rentals in

917
00:58:56,762 --> 00:59:01,214
them. And I think that's a huge assurance
to our citizens that we are, you know,

918
00:59:01,214 --> 00:59:05,389
doing our job, that we care, and that
we're patrolling and looking for, you

919
00:59:05,389 --> 00:59:05,667
we're patrolling and looking for, you
know,

920
00:59:05,667 --> 00:59:07,838
things that could be wrong proactively.

921
00:59:07,838 --> 00:59:12,291
So I thought that was a wonderful way to
put it and learned a lot in 30 minutes.

922
00:59:12,291 --> 00:59:16,466
The guy was super friendly, and I wish I
could remember his name right now.

923
00:59:16,466 --> 00:59:18,636
I wrote it down. I have it in my phone.

924
00:59:18,636 --> 00:59:22,811
But anyway, I'll pass along his contact
information to our team. That's it.

925
00:59:23,164 --> 00:59:23,404
Thank you.

926
00:59:23,404 --> 00:59:24,671
Thank you. Commissioner Holk.

927
00:59:26,500 --> 00:59:30,693
Commissioner? Yeah, I'm just looking at my
notes.

928
00:59:30,693 --> 00:59:37,110
Commissioner DeBriesi touched on what I
was wondering about, how, you know,

929
00:59:37,110 --> 00:59:41,389
the people— the changeover is usually on a
Sunday.

930
00:59:41,389 --> 00:59:46,009
So whatever infractions were on Fridays
and Saturdays,

931
00:59:46,009 --> 00:59:49,688
Monday when Community Standards comes
back,

932
00:59:49,688 --> 00:59:54,223
those people are gone and we're on to the
next group.

933
00:59:54,223 --> 00:59:56,705
Also the fact that, like, um,

934
00:59:56,705 --> 01:00:03,379
Vice Mayor Johnson was saying that we
don't have anybody from code on Fridays,

935
01:00:03,379 --> 01:00:05,946
after Friday at 5 till Monday.

936
01:00:05,946 --> 01:00:11,593
So when there are these infractions, that
all falls on, on the PD.

937
01:00:11,593 --> 01:00:17,583
But as you said, yeah, we communicate
with— you're communicating with—

938
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:19,414
it's something we can enforce over the
weekend.

939
01:00:19,414 --> 01:00:21,593
I mean, most of it Yes.

940
01:00:21,593 --> 01:00:28,981
Like Chase was saying, the code violations
are— go back to also the, you know,

941
01:00:28,981 --> 01:00:33,244
things that you find wrong with the
property,

942
01:00:33,244 --> 01:00:38,170
not necessarily drunk and disorderly or
nuisance or—

943
01:00:38,170 --> 01:00:44,232
the other question I have is, how are we
enforcing registration,

944
01:00:44,232 --> 01:00:51,242
or are we enforcing registration of people
that have Airbnbs or short-term

945
01:00:51,242 --> 01:00:57,020
rentals? Are we just relying on the
honesty policy right now?

946
01:00:57,020 --> 01:00:59,990
Well, currently there is no requirement
for registration.

947
01:00:59,990 --> 01:01:04,055
So we are requiring those inspections by
both community standards and the fire

948
01:01:04,055 --> 01:01:07,911
department. So if we either get a
complaint or someone reaches out saying,

949
01:01:07,911 --> 01:01:08,120
complaint or someone reaches out saying,
hey,

950
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,185
I just bought this property, I want to,
you know, operate a short-term rental,

951
01:01:12,185 --> 01:01:14,113
what do I need to do? We set them up.

952
01:01:14,113 --> 01:01:18,073
But if it's a complaint, we verify, yes,
we can find it, you know, listed on

953
01:01:18,073 --> 01:01:18,438
we can find it, you know, listed on
Airbnb,

954
01:01:18,438 --> 01:01:20,314
wherever, VRBO. We try to reach out.

955
01:01:20,314 --> 01:01:24,379
If they work with us and they pass their
inspections, then they're good to go.

956
01:01:24,379 --> 01:01:27,714
If they're not, those are the ones that
end up before the board.

957
01:01:27,714 --> 01:01:31,466
You know, then we tend to find other
violations such as building without

958
01:01:31,466 --> 01:01:31,831
violations such as building without
permit.

959
01:01:31,831 --> 01:01:35,739
We've had ones with, you know, obviously
parking, trash, overgrowth issues.

960
01:01:35,739 --> 01:01:39,075
So it's not just the short-term rental.
inspection requirements.

961
01:01:39,075 --> 01:01:42,827
It's anything else we find when we
actually go out there and inspect the

962
01:01:42,827 --> 01:01:43,400
actually go out there and inspect the
properties.

963
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,410
I like the wrap car.

964
01:01:45,410 --> 01:01:52,042
Yeah, like you're saying, it just like,
you know, visual is great,

965
01:01:52,042 --> 01:01:59,277
you know. So if we had like one community
standard wrap with the vehicle

966
01:01:59,277 --> 01:02:03,095
with that average suggestion on there.

967
01:02:03,095 --> 01:02:10,230
give people a little bit more peace of
mind and more positive about it.

968
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:11,536
So thank you.

969
01:02:11,536 --> 01:02:16,113
Thank you. Um, the short-term regulations
are in our land development code.

970
01:02:16,113 --> 01:02:19,043
Is that where they are in all cities,
basically?

971
01:02:19,043 --> 01:02:21,727
No, because even some of the residents
last week, you know,

972
01:02:21,727 --> 01:02:24,366
that they referenced Pinellas County, and,
you know, they,

973
01:02:24,366 --> 01:02:26,640
they like some of the language in Pinellas
County,

974
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,325
but Pinellas County's short-term rental
ordinance is in their code of ordinances,

975
01:02:30,325 --> 01:02:33,919
so they feel that they're not maybe as
restricted by Senate Bill 180 as we feel

976
01:02:33,919 --> 01:02:34,010
restricted by Senate Bill 180 as we feel
we

977
01:02:34,010 --> 01:02:34,192
are.

978
01:02:34,192 --> 01:02:41,226
So has staff considered taking them out of
our—

979
01:02:41,226 --> 01:02:45,145
Yes, we did consider that and did discuss
it with the city attorney,

980
01:02:45,145 --> 01:02:49,928
and she advised that it should remain in
the city's comprehensive development code.

981
01:02:49,928 --> 01:02:53,501
So that's why we're bringing it forward in
that manner to you.

982
01:02:53,501 --> 01:02:54,501
May I ask why?

983
01:02:54,501 --> 01:02:56,186
Sorry, just to address—

984
01:02:56,186 --> 01:03:01,973
Just because it is definitively a land
development regulation when it's in your

985
01:03:01,973 --> 01:03:02,266
development regulation when it's in your
land

986
01:03:02,266 --> 01:03:04,317
development code, but there—

987
01:03:04,317 --> 01:03:09,664
that doesn't negate the argument that it's
a land development regulation,

988
01:03:09,664 --> 01:03:15,012
even if it's in your code of ordinances
and outside of specifically those

989
01:03:15,012 --> 01:03:17,503
regulations. If you're developing—

990
01:03:17,503 --> 01:03:22,630
if it's something that would affect the
development of land, arguably,

991
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:25,267
that preemption would still control.

992
01:03:25,267 --> 01:03:28,784
So it doesn't negate the preemption
necessarily.

993
01:03:28,784 --> 01:03:33,032
It may be— it may minimize an opportunity
for a challenge,

994
01:03:33,032 --> 01:03:38,600
but it doesn't necessarily make it
ineffective against what is effectively a

995
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:38,893
ineffective against what is effectively a
land

996
01:03:38,893 --> 01:03:43,654
development regulation, just in a
different section of your code.

997
01:03:43,654 --> 01:03:48,730
Okay, so the stuff that we can expect to
see coming up soon,

998
01:03:48,730 --> 01:03:50,929
will be stuff that is not—

999
01:03:50,929 --> 01:03:55,497
that we're allowed to do under Senate Bill
180, right?

1000
01:03:55,497 --> 01:03:56,202
Correct.

1001
01:03:56,202 --> 01:03:58,550
And then so what is step number 2?

1002
01:03:58,550 --> 01:04:04,350
I assume there's going to be a step number
2 that will be brought forward in October

1003
01:04:04,350 --> 01:04:07,595
of '27 that will allow us to look at
occupancy,

1004
01:04:07,595 --> 01:04:13,326
some other things that are clearly issues
in our neighborhoods that are not allowed

1005
01:04:13,326 --> 01:04:14,983
to be changed right now.

1006
01:04:15,753 --> 01:04:20,676
So what we did pledge to the community
members that came to the planning board

1007
01:04:20,676 --> 01:04:24,336
meeting is that we would evaluate the
success and how the—

1008
01:04:24,336 --> 01:04:28,943
if these proposed changes to the
short-term vacation rental ordinance are

1009
01:04:28,943 --> 01:04:29,448
short-term vacation rental ordinance are
approved

1010
01:04:29,448 --> 01:04:33,298
by the commission, along with the chronic
nuisance ordinance,

1011
01:04:33,298 --> 01:04:38,221
we would evaluate whether those are
effectively addressing the challenges that

1012
01:04:38,221 --> 01:04:38,536
effectively addressing the challenges that
might

1013
01:04:38,536 --> 01:04:42,449
be happening with short-term vacation
rentals within the city.

1014
01:04:42,449 --> 01:04:47,308
So we would do an analysis and evaluate
whether we, from a staff perspective,

1015
01:04:47,308 --> 01:04:50,590
whether we thought we needed to strengthen
anything,

1016
01:04:50,590 --> 01:04:55,071
or whether we thought that these 2
ordinances were working as they were

1017
01:04:55,071 --> 01:04:55,828
ordinances were working as they were
intended and

1018
01:04:55,828 --> 01:04:59,552
designed. And so we would make that
decision in the future,

1019
01:04:59,552 --> 01:05:01,256
is what staff is proposing.

1020
01:05:01,256 --> 01:05:01,401
Right.

1021
01:05:01,482 --> 01:05:05,829
So, so currently, a 3,000-square-foot
house could

1022
01:05:05,829 --> 01:05:10,176
have how many people In a short-term
rental right

1023
01:05:10,176 --> 01:05:10,531
now?

1024
01:05:10,531 --> 01:05:13,101
By the square footage rule, it's, um,

1025
01:05:13,101 --> 01:05:16,783
1 per every 150 square feet of
air-conditioned space.

1026
01:05:16,783 --> 01:05:22,132
But there is also the language for parking
that you need to have 1 off-street

1027
01:05:22,132 --> 01:05:24,147
parking for every 3 visitors.

1028
01:05:24,147 --> 01:05:29,705
So you would actually be more restricted
probably by the parking than the square

1029
01:05:29,705 --> 01:05:32,414
footage on a larger property like that.

1030
01:05:32,414 --> 01:05:35,800
Right, but there If it's a
3,000-square-foot home,

1031
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,660
they could advertise it sleeps 20 because
that's 1.5 per—

1032
01:05:39,660 --> 01:05:41,760
or 1 per every 150 square feet.

1033
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,146
And then parking would happen on Friday,
Saturday,

1034
01:05:45,146 --> 01:05:48,058
Sunday when we don't have people out
there,

1035
01:05:48,058 --> 01:05:52,663
at least code enforcement out there
looking at how folks are parked.

1036
01:05:52,663 --> 01:05:56,726
So it's really hard to kind of regulate
the number of folks.

1037
01:05:56,726 --> 01:05:58,825
I, I think that Well, 2 things.

1038
01:05:58,825 --> 01:06:02,144
I think that regardless of how effective
this is,

1039
01:06:02,144 --> 01:06:07,629
there's going to be folks that are upset
that there's short-term rentals in their

1040
01:06:07,629 --> 01:06:09,661
neighborhood, even if they're,

1041
01:06:09,661 --> 01:06:13,927
they're playing by the rules and they're
doing the right thing.

1042
01:06:13,927 --> 01:06:16,298
And we're not going to change that.

1043
01:06:16,298 --> 01:06:19,684
We can't change that because of Florida
state law.

1044
01:06:19,684 --> 01:06:25,101
But I do think that we have to have a
better number than 1.5 or 1 per 150 square

1045
01:06:25,101 --> 01:06:25,440
feet.

1046
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:25,814
I think that's a good point.

1047
01:06:26,252 --> 01:06:30,113
I don't— I think the county has a lower
number than that.

1048
01:06:30,113 --> 01:06:34,788
I think the county— I don't know when the
county's number was put in,

1049
01:06:34,788 --> 01:06:39,530
but I think at least residents were saying
that their maximum is 10 in

1050
01:06:39,530 --> 01:06:42,850
unincorporated Pinellas County for any
size home.

1051
01:06:42,850 --> 01:06:48,472
So that's going to be the most complaints
I think that we hear are in neighborhoods

1052
01:06:48,472 --> 01:06:53,553
with larger homes. Because if it's a
little 1,200-square-foot bungalow, um,

1053
01:06:53,553 --> 01:06:53,824
little 1,200-square-foot bungalow, um,
the,

1054
01:06:53,824 --> 01:06:59,108
the hosts are only advertising that for 5
people or 6 people or whatever, and,

1055
01:06:59,108 --> 01:07:02,902
and it really just— it's a family vacation
to, you know,

1056
01:07:02,902 --> 01:07:07,577
see the beach a little bit and maybe go to
a conference or something.

1057
01:07:07,577 --> 01:07:12,319
But, but, um, it's the folks that are
having tens of people there, uh,

1058
01:07:12,319 --> 01:07:17,603
for a party over the weekend where the
problem— so we need to get around that.

1059
01:07:17,603 --> 01:07:22,819
But I understand that's going to be In
October, I would not wait to see that.

1060
01:07:22,819 --> 01:07:28,307
I would just plan on that to bring back
something about the number of people that

1061
01:07:28,307 --> 01:07:33,117
are allowed. I know there was some
discussion or some suggestions about

1062
01:07:33,117 --> 01:07:33,862
discussion or some suggestions about
making sure

1063
01:07:33,862 --> 01:07:38,807
that you know VRBO, Airbnb, and or hosts
are kind of in the conversation.

1064
01:07:38,807 --> 01:07:42,872
Have we been able to reach out to any any
hosts and By that,

1065
01:07:42,872 --> 01:07:45,988
I probably mean hosts that are doing it
right.

1066
01:07:45,988 --> 01:07:51,272
It may be folks that went through the
process and had the fire inspection and,

1067
01:07:51,272 --> 01:07:55,879
you know, maybe had some issues and
corrected and everything's good.

1068
01:07:55,879 --> 01:08:01,366
Those are the type of people that I want
to— I would like staff to talk to about,

1069
01:08:01,366 --> 01:08:03,060
listen, this is our plan.

1070
01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:05,363
Is this— is this going to— I mean,

1071
01:08:05,363 --> 01:08:09,428
they may not be happy with the $700 it's
going to cost them.

1072
01:08:09,428 --> 01:08:10,783
But aside from that,

1073
01:08:10,783 --> 01:08:15,525
does this sound like something that that
makes sense to you as a host.

1074
01:08:15,525 --> 01:08:18,912
And I'm not saying we do everything for
the hosts,

1075
01:08:18,912 --> 01:08:22,774
because the reason we're doing this is for
our residents.

1076
01:08:22,774 --> 01:08:25,958
But I think it's important to talk to them
too.

1077
01:08:25,958 --> 01:08:29,395
Yeah, we actually did forward the proposed
ordinance to the—

1078
01:08:29,395 --> 01:08:33,463
he's basically like the liaison for Airbnb
between Airbnb and the host.

1079
01:08:33,463 --> 01:08:37,759
And for the most part, they didn't have
any objections to The registration,

1080
01:08:37,759 --> 01:08:38,962
the registration fee.

1081
01:08:38,962 --> 01:08:43,030
They did have some questions about, um,
like the follow-up inspections.

1082
01:08:43,030 --> 01:08:47,269
But as we've seen, you know, the fire
department has issues right now, um,

1083
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:51,566
getting those annual reinspections because
there's really no requirement or

1084
01:08:51,566 --> 01:08:52,826
enforcement mechanism.

1085
01:08:52,826 --> 01:08:55,920
But now requiring that as part of your
annual renewal,

1086
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:00,560
it'll be a little bit easier for code to
get in there and then for fire to get in

1087
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:00,904
there.

1088
01:09:00,904 --> 01:09:04,169
Okay. And my last question was around, um,

1089
01:09:04,169 --> 01:09:10,387
the Vice Mayor Johnson's suggestion about
kind of 3 strikes and you're out rule.

1090
01:09:10,387 --> 01:09:12,019
Do we plan on having—

1091
01:09:12,019 --> 01:09:18,315
I know we've talked about several things
as far as if there's so many violations,

1092
01:09:18,315 --> 01:09:22,046
can we do something like that? Is that
feasible?

1093
01:09:22,046 --> 01:09:24,822
Could we ask city attorney maybe to
address that one?

1094
01:09:24,822 --> 01:09:26,813
Because we did discuss that at length.

1095
01:09:26,813 --> 01:09:32,355
So essentially, the street 3 strikes and
you're out works for a code violation.

1096
01:09:32,355 --> 01:09:36,775
It potentially could work depending on
what the violations are,

1097
01:09:36,775 --> 01:09:41,966
but it would have to rise to a level to be
so egregious to shut them down.

1098
01:09:41,966 --> 01:09:44,632
That is possible if there's, you know,

1099
01:09:44,632 --> 01:09:49,473
such an extreme number and they're
disruptive enough, and that would—

1100
01:09:49,473 --> 01:09:54,454
we would proceed through the chronic
nuisance and through an injunction

1101
01:09:54,454 --> 01:09:55,015
nuisance and through an injunction
process.

1102
01:09:55,015 --> 01:10:00,767
But essentially, just because they don't
necessarily register and fill out all the

1103
01:10:00,767 --> 01:10:04,906
paperwork, if it doesn't rise to a certain
violation level,

1104
01:10:04,906 --> 01:10:09,817
you can't just shut them down. These are
protected property interests.

1105
01:10:09,817 --> 01:10:13,816
So, they are— they do have some due
process requirements.

1106
01:10:13,816 --> 01:10:18,306
So, just because there's, you know, a
series— if there's litter,

1107
01:10:18,306 --> 01:10:22,866
maybe they don't register in time, and
there's a noise complaint,

1108
01:10:22,866 --> 01:10:24,690
although that's 3 strikes,

1109
01:10:24,690 --> 01:10:30,162
that isn't necessarily going to rise to
the level where we can shut them down.

1110
01:10:30,162 --> 01:10:34,371
But there are other variations, other
avenues we can pursue.

1111
01:10:34,371 --> 01:10:36,896
One of the things that is permitted,

1112
01:10:36,896 --> 01:10:41,035
and this is allowed through the chronic
nuisance ordinance,

1113
01:10:41,035 --> 01:10:43,210
is the nuisance abatement plan.

1114
01:10:43,210 --> 01:10:48,331
And so that would give us alternative
options for enforcement in terms of

1115
01:10:48,331 --> 01:10:51,278
potentially requiring security, requiring—

1116
01:10:51,278 --> 01:10:56,750
maybe they have to have certain pickup or
property management that has to come

1117
01:10:56,750 --> 01:11:01,941
through. So depending on how problematic
some of the nuisance behavior is,

1118
01:11:01,941 --> 01:11:07,624
we will have some options through that
enforcement methodology to address some of

1119
01:11:07,624 --> 01:11:10,500
those and mitigate some of those impacts.

1120
01:11:10,500 --> 01:11:16,056
So I think the strength of what is done in
the town that Vice Mayor Johnson was

1121
01:11:16,056 --> 01:11:21,400
talking about, is the owners know that if
they're a bad actor so many times,

1122
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:27,167
they're going to have no income property
for 6 months or a year or whatever it is.

1123
01:11:27,167 --> 01:11:28,855
And that's the strength.

1124
01:11:28,855 --> 01:11:31,738
You know, so in the registration process,

1125
01:11:31,738 --> 01:11:34,832
if it's very clear that these are the
rules,

1126
01:11:34,832 --> 01:11:39,825
and if you violate the rules so many times
in a certain amount of time,

1127
01:11:39,825 --> 01:11:44,959
You're going to lose the use of your
Airbnb for a certain amount of time.

1128
01:11:44,959 --> 01:11:49,530
And if that's defensible, I think that
would make a lot of sense.

1129
01:11:49,530 --> 01:11:54,523
I think it seems very effective there.
They don't have a lot of issues.

1130
01:11:54,523 --> 01:11:59,446
And that's— those are the type of
properties that we really want to go

1131
01:11:59,446 --> 01:11:59,868
properties that we really want to go
after,

1132
01:11:59,868 --> 01:12:03,876
is the people that don't really want to
follow the rules.

1133
01:12:03,876 --> 01:12:08,033
So we can certainly consult with the city
attorney on that.

1134
01:12:08,033 --> 01:12:13,528
Mayor Brown, I think you know, we could
definitely make it very clear what the

1135
01:12:13,528 --> 01:12:13,880
definitely make it very clear what the
code—

1136
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:19,727
if you are operating a short-term vacation
rental, and if you have code violations,

1137
01:12:19,727 --> 01:12:23,954
these are the ramifications if you violate
the current code.

1138
01:12:23,954 --> 01:12:29,590
And we could also talk about the fact that
the city does have a chronic nuisance

1139
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:31,704
ordinance and what that means.

1140
01:12:31,704 --> 01:12:33,113
So I think we could,

1141
01:12:33,113 --> 01:12:38,115
we could have some wording that addresses
what you're asking for there.

1142
01:12:38,115 --> 01:12:40,026
All right. Thank you. Vice Mayor Johnson.

1143
01:12:40,026 --> 01:12:44,594
Yeah, I just want to thank you, Mayor. You
addressed a couple of my points.

1144
01:12:44,594 --> 01:12:49,467
I do think, um, you know, it's— the key
is, like, I rented a— also rented a home

1145
01:12:49,467 --> 01:12:49,650
is, like, I rented a— also rented a home
in,

1146
01:12:49,650 --> 01:12:53,731
uh, short-term rental in Putnam County.
And so I was amazed at how—

1147
01:12:53,731 --> 01:12:56,495
Is that how you met the code enforcement
guy who came to your house?

1148
01:12:56,495 --> 01:12:59,886
No, no, he broke up the party. Maybe,
maybe different guy.

1149
01:12:59,886 --> 01:13:03,569
Uh, no, that was the police. No, I'm just
kidding, the sheriff.

1150
01:13:03,569 --> 01:13:08,012
No, but it was really, it was amazing how
you could tell that they had that,

1151
01:13:08,012 --> 01:13:12,748
'cause they said it in their paperwork
that they could throw you out of the house

1152
01:13:12,748 --> 01:13:12,865
that they could throw you out of the house
if

1153
01:13:12,865 --> 01:13:14,326
you violated these rules.

1154
01:13:14,326 --> 01:13:18,185
They would come and boot you out and they
wouldn't be responsible.

1155
01:13:18,185 --> 01:13:19,588
So, I mean, it was very,

1156
01:13:19,588 --> 01:13:23,856
you could tell the difference between a
community that has standards and,

1157
01:13:23,856 --> 01:13:26,837
'cause the language of the, Agreement is
different,

1158
01:13:26,837 --> 01:13:31,222
and you could tell that they were like,
"How many people do you have there?

1159
01:13:31,222 --> 01:13:32,567
Do you have?" You know,

1160
01:13:32,567 --> 01:13:37,185
they were asking follow-up questions to
make sure because we were coming with a

1161
01:13:37,185 --> 01:13:38,998
large party as my whole family,

1162
01:13:38,998 --> 01:13:43,792
and they were making sure we weren't like
a you know college fraternity gonna like

1163
01:13:43,792 --> 01:13:46,773
you know haze all our new new recruits or
whatever.

1164
01:13:46,773 --> 01:13:51,275
They were making darn sure that we had
problem for that neighborhood with the

1165
01:13:51,275 --> 01:13:51,626
problem for that neighborhood with the
number

1166
01:13:51,626 --> 01:13:54,783
of people we had coming to this home. So I
think it's.

1167
01:13:54,783 --> 01:13:58,933
I think if we have some teeth, and again,
I think it should be serious.

1168
01:13:58,933 --> 01:14:00,863
We shouldn't let it be frivolous.

1169
01:14:00,863 --> 01:14:04,371
It has to be real issues and repeated bad
business practice.

1170
01:14:04,371 --> 01:14:08,638
Because again, anyone can rent to a bad—
someone who shows up and is bad,

1171
01:14:08,638 --> 01:14:10,100
and they take care of it.

1172
01:14:10,100 --> 01:14:14,251
But if they continually do that, then that
shows a willful bad citizen,

1173
01:14:14,251 --> 01:14:16,472
bad neighbor. Business ethic, I guess.

1174
01:14:16,472 --> 01:14:18,986
So I just, I just can't say that, you
know,

1175
01:14:18,986 --> 01:14:21,617
that was the one thing he said that
mattered.

1176
01:14:21,617 --> 01:14:26,236
And so I think that's something we need to
really think about, is having teeth.

1177
01:14:26,236 --> 01:14:30,913
And, and I did read through the teeth of
this, and it's great that we have some,

1178
01:14:30,913 --> 01:14:34,187
but it sounded, you know, like we can go
back, you know,

1179
01:14:34,187 --> 01:14:38,396
we can make them install cameras, we can
make them do some other things,

1180
01:14:38,396 --> 01:14:40,618
but like we don't have any way that's—

1181
01:14:40,618 --> 01:14:45,470
we don't have anything that says you don't
get to do business for the next 6 months

1182
01:14:45,470 --> 01:14:48,042
or 90 days If you don't, and then, you
know,

1183
01:14:48,042 --> 01:14:50,732
because you're going to have to go on a
pause.

1184
01:14:50,732 --> 01:14:55,584
And I know, I know that's very impactful
for these businesses because they book out

1185
01:14:55,584 --> 01:14:57,806
years in advance or months in advance.

1186
01:14:57,806 --> 01:15:02,366
But at the end of the day, without some
sort of a, you're out of business, you

1187
01:15:02,366 --> 01:15:02,658
sort of a, you're out of business, you
know,

1188
01:15:02,658 --> 01:15:05,231
we don't really have what we need, you
know,

1189
01:15:05,231 --> 01:15:08,329
unless we really fine them out of
business, you know.

1190
01:15:08,329 --> 01:15:10,843
And I don't know if we want to do that.
So—

1191
01:15:10,843 --> 01:15:15,211
Can I just ask you, so when you stated
that state, that place,

1192
01:15:15,211 --> 01:15:19,720
they gave you paperwork that said this is
what you can and can't

1193
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:19,931
do?

1194
01:15:19,931 --> 01:15:22,002
Oh, very serious. And they were not
joking.

1195
01:15:22,002 --> 01:15:25,781
So it was more directed at the person
staying there than— I mean,

1196
01:15:25,781 --> 01:15:29,677
I'm sure there's the rules for the people
that own it as well, but—

1197
01:15:29,677 --> 01:15:31,845
But it was the owner that gave you those?

1198
01:15:31,845 --> 01:15:35,907
Yeah, they made me put the relationship of
every person that was in that

1199
01:15:35,907 --> 01:15:39,743
house with me. And they did a follow-up
because I had different last

1200
01:15:39,743 --> 01:15:40,081
names.

1201
01:15:40,081 --> 01:15:42,436
So the host is clearly saying this
community has standards,

1202
01:15:42,436 --> 01:15:45,230
you have to abide by them, otherwise we're
going to come and kick out.

1203
01:15:45,230 --> 01:15:47,921
They were, yeah, because they, because we
had, you know, whatever,

1204
01:15:47,921 --> 01:15:49,308
20 of us showing up at this house.

1205
01:15:49,308 --> 01:15:51,387
And so that, you know, it held, I think it
held 16.

1206
01:15:51,387 --> 01:15:54,160
I'm sorry, it was 16 of us, but it was
like, that's a lot of people.

1207
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:55,750
So they were asking a lot of questions.

1208
01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:57,090
Half of us and family, it's barely.

1209
01:15:57,090 --> 01:16:00,459
Yeah, and that's not even all of us, but
you know, half of them.

1210
01:16:00,459 --> 01:16:01,565
We're good neighbors.

1211
01:16:01,565 --> 01:16:04,881
But yeah, it was, you know, that you could
tell the difference.

1212
01:16:04,881 --> 01:16:09,040
And that's, you know, that's, I just, I'd
like us to be that kind of community.

1213
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,264
I agree. I love that you said standards
too, because that's,

1214
01:16:12,264 --> 01:16:16,186
and that's what we're talking about is
Community standards, we have them,

1215
01:16:16,186 --> 01:16:18,550
we should enforce them. Commissioner
Holmes.

1216
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:19,160
Thank you.

1217
01:16:19,706 --> 01:16:21,201
How are you going to get the word out on
this?

1218
01:16:22,277 --> 01:16:26,725
There has to be thousands of vacation
rental places in the city of Largo right

1219
01:16:26,725 --> 01:16:26,953
rental places in the city of Largo right
now.

1220
01:16:26,953 --> 01:16:30,847
So, um, we're demoing different softwares,
and once we choose a software,

1221
01:16:30,847 --> 01:16:33,034
they pretty much all have the capability—

1222
01:16:33,034 --> 01:16:35,754
they scrub all the different vacation
rental sites,

1223
01:16:35,754 --> 01:16:37,781
we'll get an as robust list as we can.

1224
01:16:37,781 --> 01:16:41,461
And we'll basically send out a courtesy
letter saying, hey, you know,

1225
01:16:41,461 --> 01:16:45,248
the city will be implementing a short-term
rental registration program.

1226
01:16:45,248 --> 01:16:49,302
We're aiming for, you know, a January 1st,
2027 launch, give them, you know,

1227
01:16:49,302 --> 01:16:51,382
hopefully a couple months to get ready.

1228
01:16:51,382 --> 01:16:53,782
And then, you know, get our staff trained
up,

1229
01:16:53,782 --> 01:16:56,769
get familiar with the software and
everything like that.

1230
01:16:56,769 --> 01:16:59,703
And, you know, hit the ground running come
January 1st,

1231
01:16:59,703 --> 01:17:01,356
get the program up and running.

1232
01:17:01,356 --> 01:17:04,021
What's the downside if they don't pay the
$600?

1233
01:17:05,290 --> 01:17:07,305
they'll be in violation of the code of,
you know,

1234
01:17:07,305 --> 01:17:09,568
operating a short-term rental without the
registration.

1235
01:17:09,568 --> 01:17:11,295
They'll be standing before the code board.

1236
01:17:11,295 --> 01:17:12,454
I understand it, but what's the downside?

1237
01:17:12,454 --> 01:17:14,616
$200 a day.

1238
01:17:14,616 --> 01:17:20,110
Well, there's— are you going to put a
daily fee, fine on there or something?

1239
01:17:20,110 --> 01:17:22,071
Yeah, that would be a violation of a code.

1240
01:17:22,071 --> 01:17:24,546
So like I said, they would— if it's a code
violation,

1241
01:17:24,546 --> 01:17:26,227
they would go before the code board.

1242
01:17:26,227 --> 01:17:29,730
The code board would, you know, listen to
the case, issue a potential fine,

1243
01:17:29,730 --> 01:17:32,859
and then like any other, if the fine
accrues for more than 90 days,

1244
01:17:32,859 --> 01:17:34,213
we do have the option of, um,

1245
01:17:34,213 --> 01:17:36,968
seeking foreclosure action if it's
non-home-sited property.

1246
01:17:36,968 --> 01:17:40,003
So that's always at least something we can
threaten if, you know,

1247
01:17:40,003 --> 01:17:41,311
they're still non-compliant.

1248
01:17:41,311 --> 01:17:44,132
Okay, thank you.

1249
01:17:44,132 --> 01:17:48,178
Thank you. Uh, Commissioner DeBreezy—
Commissioner Holk, I'm sorry.

1250
01:17:48,178 --> 01:17:52,140
Um, Chase, when these calls are, um,
called into Community Standards,

1251
01:17:52,140 --> 01:17:56,218
are these also anonymous calls, or, or do
they have to give their Wait,

1252
01:17:56,218 --> 01:17:59,606
now we have to give— they have to give
their name, correct?

1253
01:17:59,654 --> 01:18:01,057
When they call in a complaint?

1254
01:18:01,057 --> 01:18:04,753
State statute that passed back in 2021, we
cannot receive anonymous complaints.

1255
01:18:04,753 --> 01:18:12,274
Okay. And do you ever notice that some of
them are like the same people calling in

1256
01:18:12,274 --> 01:18:15,759
continuously? Or is it— is it varying?

1257
01:18:15,759 --> 01:18:20,529
Like the call volume on Fridays and
Saturday nights?

1258
01:18:20,529 --> 01:18:27,224
Chief, Are they— are there a lot of Airbnb
complaints that are called in,

1259
01:18:27,224 --> 01:18:28,325
or are they—

1260
01:18:28,325 --> 01:18:31,420
I don't have the number, but it's not
anything that—

1261
01:18:31,420 --> 01:18:34,275
It's not like standing out going, oh, it's
another Airbnb.

1262
01:18:34,275 --> 01:18:37,524
I mean, for years we've had party
complaints, house parties,

1263
01:18:37,524 --> 01:18:41,314
and whether they're at Airbnb or not, it's
just a routine call for us.

1264
01:18:41,314 --> 01:18:42,245
All right.

1265
01:18:42,581 --> 01:18:47,045
Um, but so yeah, I was just wondering,
like, um, when, when they're calling in,

1266
01:18:47,045 --> 01:18:51,622
since it's not anonymous anymore, are you
seeing like the same people calling in?

1267
01:18:51,622 --> 01:18:54,350
There's a few obviously that, you know,
are repeat, you know,

1268
01:18:54,350 --> 01:18:55,781
complaints and things like that.

1269
01:18:55,781 --> 01:18:58,644
And one of the most frequent— we do have
actually 2 running, um,

1270
01:18:58,644 --> 01:19:01,685
now 3 running code cases accruing fines
that, you know, like I said,

1271
01:19:01,685 --> 01:19:05,219
we will potentially have that foreclosure
discussion on that potential property

1272
01:19:05,219 --> 01:19:07,276
because of the issues we've been having at
it.

1273
01:19:07,276 --> 01:19:08,677
Thank you.

1274
01:19:08,677 --> 01:19:10,468
Thank you.

1275
01:19:10,534 --> 01:19:11,169
Commissioner Dorese.

1276
01:19:11,169 --> 01:19:16,115
Thank you. Um, I remember back to the work
session when we first talked about this,

1277
01:19:16,115 --> 01:19:19,690
and I know there was a conversation about
putting a maximum—

1278
01:19:19,690 --> 01:19:23,027
call it a 3-strike rule or whatever you
want to call it.

1279
01:19:23,027 --> 01:19:26,125
I know that was some of the direction we
were given.

1280
01:19:26,125 --> 01:19:28,747
You know, my feeling about this has
evolved,

1281
01:19:28,747 --> 01:19:32,024
and I think I want to lean towards the
aggressive side,

1282
01:19:32,024 --> 01:19:36,314
right up to the limits of what we're
allowed to do and to the comfort of

1283
01:19:36,314 --> 01:19:36,791
allowed to do and to the comfort of
Attorney

1284
01:19:36,791 --> 01:19:40,664
Allen and maybe a little bit to the
discomfort of Attorney Allen.

1285
01:19:40,750 --> 01:19:41,874
Attorney Allen.

1286
01:19:41,874 --> 01:19:46,528
You know, and, and, you know, see what we
can do because we've heard enough about,

1287
01:19:46,528 --> 01:19:49,649
you know, our residents' complaints and,
and, you know,

1288
01:19:49,649 --> 01:19:54,303
because of the cities around us, they seem
to be, you know, congregating in Largo.

1289
01:19:54,303 --> 01:19:57,708
So, you know, I want, I want to push this
as much as we can.

1290
01:19:57,708 --> 01:20:01,567
And I think the 3-strike rule or some
effect of that is pretty good.

1291
01:20:01,567 --> 01:20:04,121
Specific question, though, regarding
parking.

1292
01:20:04,121 --> 01:20:08,661
So if there's a house that's got 12 people
in it, 8 cars, and there's, you know,

1293
01:20:08,661 --> 01:20:11,840
the rule is you have to have the one
off-street parking.

1294
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:16,607
But those 8 cars are legally parked on the
street in front of other people's houses.

1295
01:20:16,607 --> 01:20:17,742
Is that a violation?

1296
01:20:17,742 --> 01:20:22,947
That's more of a police issue than code.

1297
01:20:22,947 --> 01:20:25,517
You said legally parked. So no, it's not a
problem.

1298
01:20:25,759 --> 01:20:27,941
So that's the thing that defeats the—

1299
01:20:27,941 --> 01:20:32,859
the code says you have to have so many
off-street parking for per person.

1300
01:20:32,859 --> 01:20:37,978
So if they legally park somewhere else,
then we might as well not have that,

1301
01:20:37,978 --> 01:20:38,315
that—

1302
01:20:38,315 --> 01:20:38,427
Right.

1303
01:20:38,764 --> 01:20:40,084
Yeah, I live in a cul-de-sac.

1304
01:20:40,084 --> 01:20:43,406
I have 20 homes on there, and I have an
Airbnb across the street from me.

1305
01:20:43,406 --> 01:20:44,361
Never been a problem.

1306
01:20:44,361 --> 01:20:47,001
But if they have a big party one night and
there's 8 cars,

1307
01:20:47,001 --> 01:20:49,003
they can only fit 1 in front of their
house,

1308
01:20:49,003 --> 01:20:51,733
and the other 7 are parked in front of all
the other houses,

1309
01:20:51,733 --> 01:20:54,009
they'd be illegally parked, then we have
no teeth.

1310
01:20:54,009 --> 01:20:56,193
So they're not violating anything at that
point.

1311
01:20:56,193 --> 01:20:59,162
We can't, because like I said, there is
the code that says, you know,

1312
01:20:59,162 --> 01:21:02,131
you have to have the off-street parking.
You can't include on-street.

1313
01:21:02,131 --> 01:21:05,616
So if we can prove that yes, these were
vehicles parked at the short-term rental,

1314
01:21:05,616 --> 01:21:08,628
and they're not in a, you know, approved
off-street parking, then yes,

1315
01:21:08,628 --> 01:21:10,435
we could cite them under the parking code.

1316
01:21:10,435 --> 01:21:12,131
So what's approved off-street parking?

1317
01:21:12,131 --> 01:21:15,566
As I'm saying, is if they park 2 houses
down in front of my neighbor's house,

1318
01:21:15,566 --> 01:21:17,395
and they're legally parked on the street,

1319
01:21:17,395 --> 01:21:20,296
not blocking a fire hydrant or anything
else like that, you know,

1320
01:21:20,296 --> 01:21:21,545
would that be an unapproved—

1321
01:21:21,545 --> 01:21:23,965
You know, it's going to be problematic.

1322
01:21:23,965 --> 01:21:28,060
So they do— they are required as part of
the or in this ordinance,

1323
01:21:28,060 --> 01:21:33,024
it has them required to submit a parking
plan that actually shows the number and

1324
01:21:33,024 --> 01:21:36,809
place of parking. So if we're there for
enforcement purposes,

1325
01:21:36,809 --> 01:21:41,338
and they're able to identify people coming
and going from this residence,

1326
01:21:41,338 --> 01:21:44,813
and they're parking there, that's a
potential violation.

1327
01:21:44,813 --> 01:21:47,791
But we also have to think practically, you
know,

1328
01:21:47,791 --> 01:21:51,700
you're wanting to treat one particular
person very differently.

1329
01:21:51,700 --> 01:21:51,877
Right.

1330
01:21:51,877 --> 01:21:55,922
But what if you, as a full-time occupant
of your home have a party,

1331
01:21:55,922 --> 01:22:00,028
and you have people parked legally in
front of other people's homes.

1332
01:22:00,028 --> 01:22:02,021
So, um, you have to balance that.

1333
01:22:02,021 --> 01:22:04,858
And so I understand it's an imperfect
solution,

1334
01:22:04,858 --> 01:22:07,757
and it doesn't immediately address these
issues.

1335
01:22:07,757 --> 01:22:12,104
These are practical enforcement concerns.
And so we do have it in there.

1336
01:22:12,104 --> 01:22:14,096
So to the extent we're, you know,

1337
01:22:14,096 --> 01:22:18,927
in a situation where code or police feel
comfortable enough that they're able to

1338
01:22:18,927 --> 01:22:23,274
identify that this is a violation, it's in
there so they can address it.

1339
01:22:23,274 --> 01:22:27,863
Technically, there is language that if
there's violations and they're not in

1340
01:22:27,863 --> 01:22:32,391
compliance, they can't register or they're
not able to continue to operate.

1341
01:22:32,391 --> 01:22:35,712
But we also need to— I need to make it
clear, you know,

1342
01:22:35,712 --> 01:22:40,422
because I have been communicating with a
lot of these residents, that doesn't—

1343
01:22:40,422 --> 01:22:43,984
just because if they're operating in
violation of the code,

1344
01:22:43,984 --> 01:22:48,392
we're not going to go and You know,
somebody raised the issue of red tag,

1345
01:22:48,392 --> 01:22:50,445
that we don't have that authority.

1346
01:22:50,445 --> 01:22:54,490
So yes, they'll be act— they'll be acting
in violation of our code.

1347
01:22:54,490 --> 01:22:58,535
It'll continue to accrue violations,
potentially repeat violations.

1348
01:22:58,535 --> 01:23:02,460
Fines will accrue, which goes to the issue
of short-term rentals.

1349
01:23:02,460 --> 01:23:07,230
If they're for profit and we're cutting
into your profits and we continue to do

1350
01:23:07,230 --> 01:23:07,411
into your profits and we continue to do
so,

1351
01:23:07,411 --> 01:23:11,215
it becomes problematic. And generally what
happens is you have—

1352
01:23:11,215 --> 01:23:12,018
I'm sorry.

1353
01:23:12,786 --> 01:23:16,653
Like what Commissioner— Vice Mayor Johnson
experienced.

1354
01:23:16,653 --> 01:23:21,504
It's a much stricter process in terms of
renting it, getting into it,

1355
01:23:21,504 --> 01:23:26,917
and it becomes more cost-effective for
them to comply rather than not comply.

1356
01:23:26,917 --> 01:23:31,705
So let me take that a step further.
Because you mentioned a parking plan.

1357
01:23:31,705 --> 01:23:36,821
So, you know, one of the Airbnbs in
Carleton Estates, one of the larger homes,

1358
01:23:36,821 --> 01:23:38,395
you know, advertises 15.

1359
01:23:38,395 --> 01:23:43,642
and they submit a parking plan that says,
I've got 2 spots in front of my house,

1360
01:23:43,642 --> 01:23:48,496
I have 2 spots 2 houses down, there's 3
spots at this house down the road,

1361
01:23:48,496 --> 01:23:52,562
legally on the road, um, and that parking
plan gets submitted,

1362
01:23:52,562 --> 01:23:54,005
would it get approved?

1363
01:23:54,005 --> 01:23:55,716
If it's on-street parking,

1364
01:23:55,716 --> 01:24:00,781
it would not get it because it's got to be
off-street parking on that parcel.

1365
01:24:00,781 --> 01:24:05,781
So they would have to have, for that
particular one, if it's advertising 15,

1366
01:24:05,781 --> 01:24:09,268
they would have to have 5 off-street on
their parcel.

1367
01:24:09,349 --> 01:24:13,851
Okay, can we specify that in the ordinance
so that it— so that doesn't get approved?

1368
01:24:13,851 --> 01:24:16,584
So that's one way to, to address this is,
you know,

1369
01:24:16,584 --> 01:24:20,817
if I operate a 15-person Airbnb and I
submit a parking plan and I've only got 2

1370
01:24:20,817 --> 01:24:24,944
spots in front of my house and I've got,
you know, and I'm going to list, um,

1371
01:24:24,944 --> 01:24:29,177
I got 8 other spots on the street that are
not my house and we would deny that,

1372
01:24:29,177 --> 01:24:31,857
then, you know, that gives it a little
more teeth.

1373
01:24:31,857 --> 01:24:32,627
It's in there.

1374
01:24:33,895 --> 01:24:38,290
Yeah, and, um, on the registration, will
it say the number of park— like,

1375
01:24:38,290 --> 01:24:41,962
the number of people that are allowed
there based on— I mean,

1376
01:24:41,962 --> 01:24:45,936
parking could be the limiting factor on a
lot of these properties.

1377
01:24:45,936 --> 01:24:48,043
Not all of them, but a lot of them.

1378
01:24:48,043 --> 01:24:52,014
That's something we may not be looking at
closely right now, but we'll definitely,

1379
01:24:52,014 --> 01:24:54,339
since we're sort of revamping the whole
program,

1380
01:24:54,339 --> 01:24:56,955
make sure that the officer handling
short-term rental,

1381
01:24:56,955 --> 01:24:59,957
when they go out to do their inspection,
is documenting, okay,

1382
01:24:59,957 --> 01:25:02,670
there's 4 off-street parking, So they can
have up to 12,

1383
01:25:02,670 --> 01:25:05,624
and even if the house is big enough to,
you know, rent to 15,

1384
01:25:05,624 --> 01:25:07,077
they can only advertise to 12.

1385
01:25:07,077 --> 01:25:07,654
Right, right.

1386
01:25:07,894 --> 01:25:10,538
Unless they have a garage spot, I guess,
right?

1387
01:25:10,538 --> 01:25:12,856
So, well, and I guess that's the question.

1388
01:25:12,856 --> 01:25:15,174
When, as part of the registration process,

1389
01:25:15,174 --> 01:25:19,479
are they declaring how many people they're
going to advertise for, or is that—

1390
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:21,112
Yeah, so actually the software,

1391
01:25:21,112 --> 01:25:24,904
what it does is it will scrub the listings
based off the occupancy rate.

1392
01:25:24,904 --> 01:25:26,589
So then if the parking is lower,

1393
01:25:26,589 --> 01:25:29,486
we will have to manually do that during
our inspection.

1394
01:25:29,486 --> 01:25:32,751
But like I said, if it is right now a
1,500-square-foot house,

1395
01:25:32,751 --> 01:25:36,491
so they would technically be able to have
10, if their listing says 15,

1396
01:25:36,491 --> 01:25:39,124
our software, all 3 that we have looked at
so far,

1397
01:25:39,124 --> 01:25:41,283
they would actually flag it and say, hey,

1398
01:25:41,283 --> 01:25:45,128
there is a potential violation here
because they are advertising over the

1399
01:25:45,128 --> 01:25:45,602
because they are advertising over the
occupancy

1400
01:25:45,602 --> 01:25:45,918
limit.

1401
01:25:45,918 --> 01:25:46,511
Good.

1402
01:25:47,216 --> 01:25:49,716
Appreciate it. Vice Mayor Johnson.

1403
01:25:49,716 --> 01:25:53,997
I will just point out one other thing that
was amazing at that house I rented They

1404
01:25:53,997 --> 01:25:58,382
also asked if you're going to have guests,
and you couldn't have more than 2 guests.

1405
01:25:58,382 --> 01:26:01,202
So, I mean, it was like serious business
and no party.

1406
01:26:01,202 --> 01:26:05,326
So, you know, it was— and it wasn't like a
house wouldn't be great for a party.

1407
01:26:05,326 --> 01:26:09,189
It's just they didn't want to have it. So
I just wanted to point that out.

1408
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:10,599
I thought that was amazing.

1409
01:26:10,599 --> 01:26:13,679
And it had to have something to do with
the parking issues.

1410
01:26:13,679 --> 01:26:16,993
And I will say we've seen similar things
with some of our more responsible hosts

1411
01:26:16,993 --> 01:26:20,058
where we actually had one recently show
our officer during the inspection,

1412
01:26:20,058 --> 01:26:22,875
they have noise meters throughout the
property and they have an app.

1413
01:26:22,875 --> 01:26:25,817
So if it goes off, they have language in
their lease that says, oh hey,

1414
01:26:25,817 --> 01:26:27,929
you've now violated your lease, you're out
of here.

1415
01:26:27,929 --> 01:26:30,539
So, wow, some of our more responsible
hosts are already taking—

1416
01:26:30,539 --> 01:26:31,996
Can we require that?

1417
01:26:31,996 --> 01:26:38,864
Potentially is the nuisance abatement
plan— Okay, that's something we could look

1418
01:26:38,864 --> 01:26:39,122
plan— Okay, that's something we could look
at.

1419
01:26:39,122 --> 01:26:40,200
That might be something.

1420
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:44,263
That's our avenue to get things done here
is a nuisance, you know,

1421
01:26:44,263 --> 01:26:48,018
we can make that You know, as aggressive
as we, as we wanted,

1422
01:26:48,018 --> 01:26:48,511
I guess.

1423
01:26:48,511 --> 01:26:50,511
Yeah, I like it.

1424
01:26:52,110 --> 01:26:55,311
All right, I appreciate all the work on
this.

1425
01:26:55,311 --> 01:26:58,796
I'm sure we all do, and the neighbors do
as well.

1426
01:26:58,796 --> 01:27:02,850
And, uh, you know, I think our intent is
to, um, make it,

1427
01:27:02,850 --> 01:27:08,754
make it not difficult for the good actors,
the people that are good hosts that are,

1428
01:27:08,754 --> 01:27:14,018
you know, silently in neighborhoods and
just bring people to the county or

1429
01:27:14,018 --> 01:27:14,658
just bring people to the county or
whatever,

1430
01:27:14,658 --> 01:27:20,419
and, and then encourage good behavior from
the people who are just absentee hosts

1431
01:27:20,419 --> 01:27:22,909
who aren't really paying attention,

1432
01:27:22,909 --> 01:27:27,248
and make it so they feel like they need to
pay attention and,

1433
01:27:27,248 --> 01:27:30,164
and let their guests know that, you know,

1434
01:27:30,164 --> 01:27:33,934
the city has standards and you have to
abide by them.

1435
01:27:33,934 --> 01:27:38,699
And, and in turn, the hosts have
standards, right? So, so great. We

1436
01:27:38,699 --> 01:27:39,695
standards, right? So, so great. We
appreciate it.

1437
01:27:39,695 --> 01:27:39,855
Thank you.

1438
01:27:40,860 --> 01:27:43,027
Any other comments or questions? Thank you
so much.

1439
01:27:43,223 --> 01:27:43,810
Thank you.

1440
01:27:43,858 --> 01:27:44,673
See us in September.

1441
01:27:44,918 --> 01:27:45,602
All right.

1442
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:52,191
Thanks, Chief. Let me see. See, Attorney
Allen, anything this evening?

1443
01:27:52,191 --> 01:27:56,609
Actually, let's do board committee reports
first.

1444
01:27:56,609 --> 01:27:59,133
Anything from Ford Pinellas?

1445
01:27:59,133 --> 01:28:05,714
No, we did not meet. I do have a training
for the state training session.

1446
01:28:05,714 --> 01:28:12,114
tomorrow in Gainesville for— or yeah,
MPOs. So looking forward to that.

1447
01:28:12,114 --> 01:28:16,996
Thank you. Suncoast League of Cities.

1448
01:28:16,996 --> 01:28:22,102
There, the Suncoast League is having their
business meeting on Friday morning, 8:30.

1449
01:28:22,102 --> 01:28:25,750
I believe Carson sent that out to
everybody who's attending.

1450
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:29,883
Also, they're doing the Super Regional
brunch breakfast on Saturday.

1451
01:28:29,883 --> 01:28:34,260
So please attend and Look forward to
seeing everybody there. That's all.

1452
01:28:34,260 --> 01:28:38,007
Thank you. PSTA?

1453
01:28:38,007 --> 01:28:41,785
Nothing. It's been a little while since we
met because of the way the weeks work

1454
01:28:41,785 --> 01:28:42,635
out. So it's time.

1455
01:28:42,635 --> 01:28:47,660
I've got just a couple things from Tampa
Bay Regional Planning Council.

1456
01:28:47,660 --> 01:28:53,394
We met yesterday. There is a date for the
next annual Regional Resiliency Summit.

1457
01:28:53,394 --> 01:28:58,349
It is on May 6th and 7th, Thursday and
Friday of 2027. 2027, actually.

1458
01:28:58,349 --> 01:29:03,374
It says '26 on this, but it should be '27.
I'll have to tell them that.

1459
01:29:03,374 --> 01:29:07,550
It's going to be over in Tampa, over at
International Mall,

1460
01:29:07,550 --> 01:29:09,532
so at the Renaissance there.

1461
01:29:09,532 --> 01:29:10,705
Mm-hmm.

1462
01:29:10,705 --> 01:29:12,830
Then we had 2 presentations.

1463
01:29:12,830 --> 01:29:18,523
One was on Senate Bill 1134 regarding
county and municipal official actions

1464
01:29:18,523 --> 01:29:19,130
county and municipal official actions
relating

1465
01:29:19,130 --> 01:29:21,862
to diversity, equity, and inclusion,

1466
01:29:21,862 --> 01:29:28,010
and the executive director and the general
counsel have worked closely to look at

1467
01:29:28,010 --> 01:29:33,778
everything in the Tampa Bay Regional
Planning Council to make sure that they

1468
01:29:33,778 --> 01:29:34,158
Planning Council to make sure that they
don't

1469
01:29:34,158 --> 01:29:38,256
have those 3 words in there, and so
everything's good.

1470
01:29:38,256 --> 01:29:40,533
And just look at it, you know,

1471
01:29:40,533 --> 01:29:46,909
they've done some federal grant work that
would be in violation of this if it wasn't

1472
01:29:46,909 --> 01:29:51,842
already completed or pretty much
completed, which is interesting.

1473
01:29:51,842 --> 01:29:56,927
And then we had a presentation
understanding data centers and their

1474
01:29:56,927 --> 01:29:58,142
understanding data centers and their
regional impact.

1475
01:29:58,142 --> 01:30:03,758
The 2 main presenters on that were
somebody from Tampa Electric as well as

1476
01:30:03,758 --> 01:30:04,365
somebody from Tampa Electric as well as
somebody

1477
01:30:04,365 --> 01:30:06,642
from Loudoun County, Virginia,

1478
01:30:06,642 --> 01:30:12,031
which has more data centers per square
mile than anywhere in the world,

1479
01:30:12,031 --> 01:30:12,866
mile than anywhere in the world,
apparently.

1480
01:30:12,866 --> 01:30:13,751
Hmm.

1481
01:30:13,751 --> 01:30:16,119
Their first data center was AOL.

1482
01:30:16,119 --> 01:30:20,931
A little while ago when they used to send
out the discs, the CDs.

1483
01:30:20,931 --> 01:30:26,852
But they talked about several things that
people bring to us as far as concerns,

1484
01:30:26,852 --> 01:30:28,998
including water and electric.

1485
01:30:28,998 --> 01:30:34,993
And then they talked about, you know, both
the negative and the positive aspects.

1486
01:30:34,993 --> 01:30:36,918
I think in Loudoun County,

1487
01:30:36,918 --> 01:30:41,359
just due to property taxes And it's mostly
like the servers,

1488
01:30:41,359 --> 01:30:46,910
the cost of the servers, because those
things are replaced every few years.

1489
01:30:46,910 --> 01:30:52,905
The property taxes paid on the land that
has data centers is about 3 to 4% of the

1490
01:30:52,905 --> 01:30:58,975
land pays 30% of their property taxes. And
so their tax rate has gone down by 50%.

1491
01:30:58,975 --> 01:31:04,378
Average tax paid per household has gone
down by 50% in the last 10 years.

1492
01:31:04,378 --> 01:31:08,226
So, so I, I gave some of this information
to, to Mr.

1493
01:31:08,226 --> 01:31:13,630
Kerp earlier and just said, you know, if,
if we look at conditional uses,

1494
01:31:13,630 --> 01:31:16,294
I think that we should look at some—

1495
01:31:16,294 --> 01:31:22,289
somebody like Loudoun County who has very
strict standards for, for data centers.

1496
01:31:22,289 --> 01:31:27,767
They do things like they don't, they
don't, none of their data centers use

1497
01:31:27,767 --> 01:31:28,211
don't, none of their data centers use
water.

1498
01:31:28,211 --> 01:31:32,208
They're all closed system cooling, so they
use glycol.

1499
01:31:32,208 --> 01:31:37,685
So their water consumption is less than a
similarly sized office building,

1500
01:31:37,685 --> 01:31:39,905
actually a lot less than that.

1501
01:31:39,905 --> 01:31:45,234
And, and then they do stuff like if you
have an emergency generator for,

1502
01:31:45,234 --> 01:31:50,415
for if the grid goes down, they're
required to attached to the grid as

1503
01:31:50,415 --> 01:31:51,230
required to attached to the grid as
opposed to,

1504
01:31:51,230 --> 01:31:56,633
um, as opposed to like gas-powered
turbines because they're a lot louder.

1505
01:31:56,633 --> 01:32:00,333
Um, and if you have an emergency backup
generator,

1506
01:32:00,333 --> 01:32:02,850
they have to be in a sound closet.

1507
01:32:02,850 --> 01:32:08,771
They have site plans with significant
setbacks and then like aesthetic things on

1508
01:32:08,771 --> 01:32:08,993
setbacks and then like aesthetic things on
the

1509
01:32:08,993 --> 01:32:12,398
buildings too. So a lot of kind of good
stuff.

1510
01:32:12,398 --> 01:32:14,544
I'm not saying that You know,

1511
01:32:14,544 --> 01:32:20,392
one of the challenges that both of them
mentioned in Pinellas County is land is

1512
01:32:20,392 --> 01:32:20,614
mentioned in Pinellas County is land is
too

1513
01:32:20,614 --> 01:32:22,612
expensive for data centers.

1514
01:32:22,612 --> 01:32:28,459
So I don't think there's going to be a
whole bunch of people trying to put data

1515
01:32:28,459 --> 01:32:30,458
centers in Pinellas County.

1516
01:32:30,458 --> 01:32:36,157
But if we are to allow those uses as a
conditional use somewhere in the city,

1517
01:32:36,157 --> 01:32:41,486
we think we should look at some of those
standards that allow in county.

1518
01:32:41,486 --> 01:32:47,481
But there's a data center hub on the Tampa
Bay Regional Planning Center's website

1519
01:32:47,481 --> 01:32:52,589
that you can get the information that was
given in that presentation.

1520
01:32:52,589 --> 01:32:55,771
It was, it was actually really
interesting.

1521
01:32:55,771 --> 01:32:57,251
Um, and none of the—

1522
01:32:57,251 --> 01:33:03,395
he said they were saying that none of the
data centers in Loughton are used for AI.

1523
01:33:03,395 --> 01:33:09,168
I'm not sure where those live, but, but,
um, that's all I have in that report.

1524
01:33:09,168 --> 01:33:10,839
Sure they're not.

1525
01:33:10,839 --> 01:33:14,929
That's what Skynet's everywhere. That's
what ChatGPT told me.

1526
01:33:17,342 --> 01:33:19,486
Um, let me see.

1527
01:33:19,551 --> 01:33:21,477
City Attorney Allen, anything to see
evening?

1528
01:33:21,477 --> 01:33:22,161
No, thank you.

1529
01:33:22,161 --> 01:33:25,548
Thank you. Thanks for your help as well.
Vice Mayor Johnson.

1530
01:33:25,548 --> 01:33:30,741
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate
our citizens and our, and our staff,

1531
01:33:30,741 --> 01:33:34,093
all the time spent on this short-term
rental issue.

1532
01:33:34,093 --> 01:33:38,892
I, I've been really happy with just the
engagement of everyone, and it's—

1533
01:33:38,892 --> 01:33:42,442
I learned a ton. And I mean, I can't
believe how many—

1534
01:33:42,442 --> 01:33:47,832
feels like we have attorney citizens that
are really researching through you know,

1535
01:33:47,832 --> 01:33:52,762
poring through all kinds of different
counties and cities and what they are

1536
01:33:52,762 --> 01:33:53,157
counties and cities and what they are
doing.

1537
01:33:53,157 --> 01:33:56,969
And I think that's been helpful to spark
our own research.

1538
01:33:56,969 --> 01:33:59,730
So I do appreciate the feedback we've had.

1539
01:33:59,730 --> 01:34:04,660
And I thank our team just for doing such a
great job presenting, preparing,

1540
01:34:04,660 --> 01:34:09,130
and looking at the pros and cons. So it's
been fantastic. Thank you.

1541
01:34:09,130 --> 01:34:11,753
Thank you. Commissioner Smith?

1542
01:34:11,753 --> 01:34:12,417
I have nothing.

1543
01:34:12,466 --> 01:34:12,838
Thank you.

1544
01:34:12,838 --> 01:34:14,829
Thank you. Commissioner Lauser.

1545
01:34:14,829 --> 01:34:18,020
Yeah, uh, so ditto on, on what the Vice
Mayor said.

1546
01:34:18,020 --> 01:34:22,587
And I think, um, my, my point is, uh, it
may not be perfect, and I don't,

1547
01:34:22,587 --> 01:34:27,593
I don't think we can get to perfect with
some of the preemptions and things that

1548
01:34:27,593 --> 01:34:32,411
we're stuck with. But I'm excited that
we've, we've put some thought into it,

1549
01:34:32,411 --> 01:34:33,787
put some work into it.

1550
01:34:33,787 --> 01:34:37,854
I'm excited to get it, get it passed and,
and, uh, into practice.

1551
01:34:39,877 --> 01:34:40,937
Thank you. Commissioner DiBrizzi?

1552
01:34:40,937 --> 01:34:43,538
Nothing tonight, thank you. Thank you.

1553
01:34:43,586 --> 01:34:44,228
Commissioner Holk?

1554
01:34:44,228 --> 01:34:50,301
Um, just the ditto from Vice Mayor Johnson
and, and, uh, Lauser,

1555
01:34:50,301 --> 01:34:56,469
our staff, the, the citizens that have
been, um, educating us on,

1556
01:34:56,469 --> 01:35:02,257
on, uh, doing a lot of research and for us
and for our staff,

1557
01:35:02,257 --> 01:35:08,329
but Also, Mayor, I just want to say I hope
you had a really good

1558
01:35:08,329 --> 01:35:09,563
birthday too.

1559
01:35:09,563 --> 01:35:10,294
Thank you.

1560
01:35:10,391 --> 01:35:10,748
That was good.

1561
01:35:10,748 --> 01:35:14,255
And, um, that's it. Thank you.

1562
01:35:14,255 --> 01:35:15,155
Thank you.

1563
01:35:15,219 --> 01:35:15,878
Commissioner Holmes.

1564
01:35:15,878 --> 01:35:19,754
Well, I would sing happy birthday, but the
last time I sang,

1565
01:35:19,754 --> 01:35:22,532
some people thought I was summoning
demons.

1566
01:35:22,532 --> 01:35:27,184
But anyway, um, it's nice to see that, uh,
the, the light in the tunnel,

1567
01:35:27,184 --> 01:35:29,703
predicated on the conversation tonight.

1568
01:35:29,703 --> 01:35:33,708
It looks like there may be a a light at
the end of the tunnel,

1569
01:35:33,708 --> 01:35:36,551
and it's not the train going to run us
over.

1570
01:35:36,551 --> 01:35:41,267
I think there is an avenue to solve this
problem. But anyway, that's all.

1571
01:35:41,267 --> 01:35:43,722
I will sing if you want me to, though.

1572
01:35:43,722 --> 01:35:45,101
Thank you. No thanks.

1573
01:35:45,101 --> 01:35:48,188
I just wanted to echo, appreciate all the
work,

1574
01:35:48,188 --> 01:35:51,603
and I really think it's going to be very
beneficial.

1575
01:35:51,603 --> 01:35:55,740
And, you know, I think in hindsight,
talking about the parking,

1576
01:35:55,740 --> 01:36:00,862
the parking may be the solution for the
occupancy rates before October of '27.

1577
01:36:00,862 --> 01:36:05,985
So that's great, too. And that's all I
had. Thanks for everything on that. Mr.

1578
01:36:05,985 --> 01:36:06,313
had. Thanks for everything on that. Mr.
Kerb.

1579
01:36:06,313 --> 01:36:10,889
Thank you, Mayor. I do want to acknowledge
the retirement of one of our important

1580
01:36:10,889 --> 01:36:14,787
team members. Chris Hawks, our
intergovernment relations coordinator,

1581
01:36:14,787 --> 01:36:17,272
is retiring from city service after 5
years.

1582
01:36:17,272 --> 01:36:20,492
And he's going on to— I think we'll still
see him around.

1583
01:36:20,492 --> 01:36:24,729
I think he's going to be involved with
Florida League at a different level.

1584
01:36:24,729 --> 01:36:29,192
But do want to acknowledge his service to
this commission and to our community.

1585
01:36:29,192 --> 01:36:32,412
And I'm sure we'll see him around. He's a
Largo resident.

1586
01:36:32,412 --> 01:36:33,937
So we're very proud of him.

1587
01:36:33,937 --> 01:36:35,943
Fantastic.

1588
01:36:36,250 --> 01:36:38,321
Very good. Any action items?

1589
01:36:38,321 --> 01:36:39,050
I had none.

1590
01:36:39,050 --> 01:36:41,493
In that case, meeting's adjourned.

1591
01:36:41,671 --> 01:36:44,212
Appreciate it.

1592
01:36:44,212 --> 01:36:46,932
So, so Woody, just so you know, Loudoun
County