1 00:00:02,159 --> 00:00:08,240 All righty. Welcome to the uh regular meeting of the Larksburg Planning 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:11,599 Commission of Tuesday, September 8th, 2026 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:17,639 in beautiful downtown Larksburg, California. Uh all right, first let's 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,639 have a roll call. 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,080 Uh Commissioner Kingsdale >> here. 6 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:25,840 » Commissioner Chmer's >> here. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:30,080 » Commissioner Zapar >> here. And Chair Swisser uh here. Okay, 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:33,840 you have four members present and one absent. You do have a quorum. 9 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:37,200 » Excellent. Good. So, this is the opportunity for any public comment on 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,480 matters that are not currently on tonight's agenda. Anything that the 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:46,239 public wants to address that is not on the agenda. Uh, speak now or forever 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:52,680 hold your peace. Do we have anything here? 13 00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:52,680 How about on Zoom? 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,840 » Excuse me. >> Thank you. Thank you. 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:04,520 » If you're on Zoom and you'd like to provide a public comment, please raise 16 00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:04,520 your hand. 17 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:09,520 » No hand. >> All right. Excellent. All right. So, uh, 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:13,360 community development director's reports. 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:17,759 » Yes. Good evening. Uh, we just a reminder that Wednesday, 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:23,360 September 30th is the planning commissioner training workshop in court 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:28,400 of Madera. If you have not um RSVPd, please do so now. um if you wish to 22 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:32,799 attend and there should have been a flyer I think in all of your packets. So 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:38,320 um there's no fee. It includes dinner. You're certainly welcome to sign up uh 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,526 on um through the link in the flyer uh and I can email it to you again if you'd 25 00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:44,400 like. [gasps] [sighs] 26 00:01:42,159 --> 00:01:50,640 I would love to go, but sadly medicine calls. Um all right. Uh 27 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:55,759 anything else or is that it? >> Yeah. Um the uh 28 00:01:53,280 --> 00:02:00,240 » the Mount Tam Racket Club uh application that you considered at your last uh 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:05,200 planning commission meeting was appealed >> uh in a timely manner. We received one 30 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:10,000 appeal. Uh and that item is scheduled to be considered by city council at the 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:15,200 Crep Center next week on Wednesday at the usual meeting time. Uh so just to 32 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:20,959 let you know that that that is moving forward and uh the agenda packet will 33 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,800 get posted by uh the end of this week on Friday. 34 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,959 » Great. And it's going to be at the same place that we had. 35 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,440 » It will also be at the Crep Center because of course we have no room in 36 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:33,200 here for >> Yeah. 200 size crowd. 37 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:37,440 » Yeah. I'm curious just as a point of uh interest. Um, when something is appealed 38 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,959 to the planning commission, do they have to have a specific 39 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:46,080 it goes I know that goes to the city council. Thank you, lawyer. Um, um, when 40 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:50,080 it's appealed, is there a specific point of appeal that they have to have or is 41 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:53,920 it can just be like some general I don't like the decision kind of thing? 42 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:58,160 » Um, it's really at the discretion of the appellant. Um, but, uh, you know, it's 43 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:02,640 good practice to have a reason for the appeal whenever you file one. Um, so 44 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:07,519 that it can be responded to in the hearing. Uh in this instance, the 45 00:03:04,239 --> 00:03:12,560 appellant provided a one-page uh uh attachment to the appeal form uh 46 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:14,239 explaining the the the reasons for their appeal. 47 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:20,080 » Okay, great. >> Is that all public record? 48 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:23,680 » Um it it is uh I don't have a copy of it here. It'll be with the agenda packet uh 49 00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:26,080 that goes to council and it'll get posted at the end of this week. So, 50 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,440 » right. >> You'll certainly see that. And my 51 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:33,920 understanding is that if any members of the planning commission want to attend 52 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:37,840 that meeting, it's allowable. However, not advisable to comment. 53 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:42,959 » Yes. Uh you're certainly all welcome to attend that or watch it in Zoom. Um but 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,640 uh because you've already decided on the item, um yeah, it would be best just not 55 00:03:46,239 --> 00:03:50,560 to >> even as an interested citizen, just keep 56 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,879 it keep a lid on it. >> Yeah, you've already you've already made 57 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,760 your your deliberations and comments on it. So 58 00:03:55,519 --> 00:04:05,120 » great. All right. Wonderful. >> All right. Uh, next, uh, public hearing. 59 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:09,640 So, uh, item 4 A on the agenda is 11:30 Magnolia Avenue, APN020-34-16. 60 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:16,880 Katherine Gian, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, Keon. Applicant, Magnolia 61 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:20,479 Village Homes, LLC owner. Um, public hearing request for a conditional use 62 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:26,639 permit to allow a dog grooming business in the C2 zoning district. Do we have 63 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:31,040 the uh committee staff report? >> Yes. Let me share my screen here. I will 64 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:35,919 keep my comments for you brief this evening. As you've just mentioned, this 65 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:43,440 item before you is use permit 26-003 for the priority at 1137 Avenue, 66 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:48,880 excuse me. Um it is on in the northern Magnolia commercial corridor. Um the 67 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:53,120 site I've highlighted it for you in this orange outline here. It's a multi-tenant 68 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:57,600 commercial space. It currently houses uh the the vacant space uh under 69 00:04:55,280 --> 00:05:01,360 consideration this evening, the Gravity Salon, and then Rustic Bakery. And if 70 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:06,080 you're familiar with the Magnolia Village development that is just right 71 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:09,840 next door to it. So, the project proposes requests approval of a 72 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:14,479 conditional use permit to allow a dog grooming facility in the C2 zoning 73 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:18,960 district. Uh that would allow Wolf Gang Bakery and Grooming to occupy the space. 74 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,960 And here's just a quick floor plan provided by the applicant to give you an 75 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,919 idea of the buildout. Here you've got all the grooming facilities kind of at 76 00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:32,639 the rear and then the front of the space would be reserved for a retail area for 77 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:36,080 um all kinds of pet goods to be sold per the application materials. The facility 78 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:40,960 would operate all week Monday through Sunday from 9 to 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. 79 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:44,639 and it would start with approximate employee count of four to five employees 80 00:05:43,039 --> 00:05:48,000 and as time goes on and and the clientele builds it would rise to a 81 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:52,320 total of 10 once the use has been established. Uh the applicant is 82 00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:57,039 proposed to mitigate potential noise associated with the use which be barking 83 00:05:54,560 --> 00:06:00,960 dogs obviously uh with the construction of noise attenuation walls on the 84 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:04,479 interior of the existing demising walls. So there would be no exterior changes 85 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:10,080 proposed as a part of this conditional use permit approval. Should exterior ex 86 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:13,520 should exterior changes be proposed. Uh that would require design review 87 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:17,759 entitlement and would come back to this body. Uh the proposed use has been found 88 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,759 consistent with the applicable general plan land use designation which is 89 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:27,600 neighborhood commercial which talks about providing uh re retail services 90 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:32,800 for the general populace to use. You have received no public comments on 91 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:36,160 on this item. So with that, I'm going to conclude my remarks here and say that 92 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,400 our staff recommendation is that you hold a public hearing, consider public 93 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:46,240 testimony, discuss the project, and adopt planning commission, excuse me, 94 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:49,360 resolution 02-26, 2026, which approves the project subject to findings, 95 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:50,880 conditions of approval, and a class one SQA exemption. 96 00:06:50,479 --> 00:06:54,639 » Great. >> So I'm available to answer questions, 97 00:06:52,800 --> 00:07:00,000 and the applicant, architect, and landlord are also here for you. Great. 98 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:03,440 Is the applicant here? >> Here, but also she's on our architect's 99 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:07,520 on Zoom. >> Okay. Would you like to uh make a 100 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,319 comment about the project? Anything you want to say? 101 00:07:08,479 --> 00:07:13,199 » Uh we're excited. >> Fine. 102 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:16,880 » To introd. >> My name is Matt Beer. I'm the um 103 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:23,520 franchisee for Wolf Gang. >> Um love dogs, love animals. Uh love 104 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:28,560 community aspects of this uh location, retail location. reminds me a lot of 105 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:32,240 where I grew up in Los Angeles. Um, we have a lot of ideas of integrating with 106 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:38,240 other businesses nearby, including the Rustic Bakery to do like cross 107 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:42,319 promotional things where say dog treats are designed for dog consumption, but 108 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,960 human consumption treats could be designed by rustic bakery and sold back 109 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:51,280 and forth and people can really enjoy, you know, their pet. It's a it's an 110 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:59,440 elevated grooming experience. It's meant to be calm and conducive for the pets so 111 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:04,800 that they enjoy it. And um having worked at um various companies for over 30 112 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:10,160 years through community marketing or to Disney for 10 years um I'm really just 113 00:08:08,479 --> 00:08:13,120 excited about this opportunity to kind of um deliver a great customer 114 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,520 experience. >> That's great. Thank you. 115 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:21,520 » Yep. uh architect any comments to Katie Kon 116 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:27,440 should be able to unmute and speak. >> Hi, yes, my name is Katie Gian and I am 117 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:33,839 the architect on the project. Um we work on multiple WOF gang locations across 118 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:41,120 the country. So, um it is a national brand. There's over 250 locations and 119 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:44,080 growing. Um they're building many of these stores all over the country 120 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:50,080 currently. And it's one-on-one dog grooming 121 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:55,360 appointments. So it is not um walk-ins. There won't be um you know spare dogs 122 00:08:53,200 --> 00:09:01,839 lining up outside or or anything like that. It it's one-on-one with 123 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:07,120 appointmentbased grooming. Um typical grooming appointments are about 90 124 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:11,839 minutes for each dog. And if we can go back to the floor plan, you could see 125 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:18,720 the front is the retail area which sells mostly dog treats, dog accessory items. 126 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:24,880 Um there's a a freezer for some frozen food. Um a typical pet shop, but more 127 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:29,760 specialized for dogs. The second room is the grooming room, which has um tables 128 00:09:27,839 --> 00:09:35,760 where the dogs are are placed and groomed. And the back is the wet wash 129 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:42,320 area where they have the dog um wash tubs and the the employee restroom. So, 130 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:47,920 it's a pretty standard build for Woof Gang. Um and I think it could be a great 131 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:54,800 addition to the neighborhood and for all the pet owners um to have this resource. 132 00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:59,600 » Awesome. Great. That's fantastic. All right. 133 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:03,600 Any other comments? Do you have any like before we bring it 134 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:08,800 open to the public um any questions for the applicant? 135 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:13,200 » Uh just a question. Um do you have any parking spots that are designated for 136 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:16,200 your store? How's the parking situation there? 137 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:25,279 » Here's the the landlord who works for edge development because the co um for 138 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:32,000 our contract we're going to have one dedicated non-inforcable parking spot in 139 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:36,320 the front. Um and for the our staff there would be one spot in the back. 140 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:39,680 Okay. that that would enable people to they're 141 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:44,240 going to have a scheduled appointment, come in, park, drop their dog off, take 142 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:49,200 off, come back later. >> Got it. Um, with the number of employees 143 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:53,600 that you have, uh, I guess the rest will have to find offsite 144 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:58,000 uh, parking. Yeah. >> Yeah, they'll have to The other thing 145 00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:01,760 that, um, we haven't locked in yet is with parking spots available in the back 146 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,920 » because there's a couple that are long enough that we think we can stack 147 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:10,072 » can >> cars and Yeah. and get two out of one. 148 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:14,320 » Great. Excellent. [gasps] 149 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:21,320 Um, any any comments, questions, Tasha? No. All right. Are there any public 150 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:21,320 comments here or on Zoom? 151 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,760 » You're on Zoom and you'd like to comment, please raise your hand. 152 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:36,399 » No Zoom comments. >> All right. Very good. Um, would anyone 153 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,399 like to make a motion? 154 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,680 We don't need to discuss it then. Is anyone need to discuss any 155 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,480 » discussion? No. >> No. Okay. Then I'll make a motion. 156 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:50,160 » Um, tell me if I get this right. I'll make a 157 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:55,279 motion to approve a conditional use permit to allow for the operation of a 158 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,720 dog grooming business at 1137 Magnolia Avenue. 159 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:01,680 » I'm going to jump right in here and say your motion should be to adopt planning 160 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,120 commission resolution 02-2026. Do 161 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,040 » you want me just to stop there at those two? We've made it easy on you. So we 162 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,800 started preparing resolutions started reading from the bit of a minute motion. 163 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,399 » So moving forward >> unless it's if for most projects unless 164 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:19,920 it's a minor thing we'll we'll approve it by resolution. So um 165 00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:25,360 » okay then I'll just approve as planners it also memorializes the approval in a 166 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:30,399 um in a permanent record. So >> okay. So, all I need to do is approve 167 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:35,760 the uh resolution 0226 >> unless you have a motion to change a 168 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:40,480 condition or modify the project. But yes, effectively yes. 169 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:46,320 » And then the other one is going to be 0326. Okay. 170 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:52,399 » Um Oh, there's just one. Okay. Then I'll start again. I'll make a motion to 171 00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:59,000 approve adopt the planning resolution planning commission resolution O2- 172 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,000 2026. 173 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,440 We need a second. >> I'll second that. 174 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,079 » Roll call. >> Okay. Commissioner Kingdale. 175 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,920 » Yes. >> Commissioner Chalmer's. 176 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:09,519 » Yes. >> Commissioner Zapar. 177 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,279 » Yes. >> And Chair Swisser. 178 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:16,399 » Yes. >> Your motion passes. Four yeses, one 179 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:19,600 absence. Uh, your decision can be appealed. Interested parties can appeal 180 00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:23,200 your decision by filing the required form and fee with the city clerk prior 181 00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:25,120 to the expiration of the appeal deadline, which is 10 days from this 182 00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:32,160 evening. >> Excellent. Congratulations. That wasn't 183 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:35,920 too rough. Get it? Rough. >> All right. See, our bark is not as bad 184 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:43,920 as our bite, right? Or it's worked. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Enough. All right. 185 00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:52,600 What more jokes can we make tonight? Alrighty. Next. Uh 186 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,600 4B 2062 Redwood Highway, APN021-261-22, 187 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:59,600 Titan Davis, applicant, Catalyst Real Estate, owner, zoning district, project 188 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:04,560 number PLN26-011. This is a public hearing request for a 189 00:14:01,199 --> 00:14:10,560 conditional you to allow a restaurant in the L1 zoning district. 190 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,560 Can we have the report, please? >> Yes. 191 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:24,320 All right. Yes. Good evening again. This item is PLN 26-011 192 00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:28,800 for 2062 Redwood Highway, more commonly known as the Cost Plus Plaza Shopping 193 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:32,959 Center. It exists just to the east of the 101 highway. Uh, and the space in 194 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,480 question is currently occupied by the Vitamin Shop. It's the first, well, I 195 00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:40,000 would refer to it as the first commercial space on the property, the 196 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:45,839 closest one to the right of way. Um and that space would be um demised to make 197 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:53,440 room for the new proposed restaurant which is um and you can kind of see here 198 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:58,800 on the site plan. It's just this uh shaded area here would 199 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,680 become the the new suite in question. And so the item before you today is 200 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:05,600 another conditional use permit which would allow a restaurant in the L1 201 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:10,160 zoning district, alo known as the light industrial zoning district. 202 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,040 And here is just they provided a pretty basic floor plan of the space just 203 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,680 showing that the demising walls that they would be putting up 204 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:23,199 and uh for the provided application materials. The facility would operate 205 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:28,079 again all week Monday through Sunday from 10:30 to 10:30 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. 206 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:32,240 There'd be approximately eight employees per shift up to 12 when they have 207 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:36,480 promotional events. deliveries would be scheduled to occur during off hours, so 208 00:15:34,079 --> 00:15:40,160 it doesn't impact uh visitors to the the shopping center or the rest of the 209 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:44,000 tenants. There are no exterior alterations proposed. Similar to your 210 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:47,760 last item, should they be proposed, that would trigger a design review 211 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:50,800 requirement, uh the and again, the proposed use has been found consistent 212 00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:55,600 with the applicable general plan land use designation, which in this case is 213 00:15:52,480 --> 00:16:00,000 industrial and service commercial. You have received no public comments on 214 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,959 this item. And with that, staff recommends that the commission hold a 215 00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:06,320 public hearing, consider public testimony, discuss the project, and 216 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:09,759 adopt planning commission resolution 03-2026, 217 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:13,360 which would approve the project subject to findings, conditions of approval, and 218 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:17,600 a class one exemption. And that concludes my remarks, and we have the 219 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:22,279 applicant and landlord here for you. >> All right. And can we hear from the 220 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:22,279 applicant? 221 00:16:25,199 --> 00:16:32,880 Good evening. Thanks for having us today. My name is Ari Blum. I'm uh a 222 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:38,160 larkser resident and also uh the owner of Catalyst Real Estate, which manages 223 00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:45,959 and represents the entity that owns Costlas Plaza. Um my family constructed 224 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,959 the shopping center in 197577 225 00:16:46,079 --> 00:16:53,519 somewhere around there. And we've owned and operated the shopping center since 226 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:59,519 that time. As I'm sure you are aware, the nature of retail has changed a lot 227 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:04,559 over that period. And you know, there are just less soft goods type retailers, 228 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:09,600 more shopping centers of this type. Food service is more what the community seems 229 00:17:07,919 --> 00:17:14,880 to want and where the demand is for tenants. Um, and in this case, uh, 230 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:21,199 Vitamin Shop was looking to downsize to a smaller amount of square footage, 231 00:17:17,439 --> 00:17:28,079 leaving us with the endcap there vacant, and the restaurant use seemed to be the 232 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:31,919 best uh, opportunity for that space and that's uh, the impetus behind our 233 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,919 application and happy to answer any questions. 234 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,120 » Question. >> Sure. Go ahead. 235 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:46,400 » You have question. >> No, you can ask it. 236 00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:50,960 Um, so thanks for coming out. Um, uh, I love Chipotle. It's good, good, good, 237 00:17:47,679 --> 00:17:56,080 good food. Um, so how many, if you had to estimate like how many customers 238 00:17:52,799 --> 00:18:00,480 would you estimate having come in each on a daily basis, let's say? I don't 239 00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:05,520 have the number at the top of my head. Um, I do know that when we did the park, 240 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:11,120 we did a parking study to confirm that we had sufficient and ample parking for 241 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:18,080 the use. and um parametrics did that study and in that study they um did have 242 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:23,280 some kind of assessment of the count but I don't have the number on. 243 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:28,240 » Yeah. No, I I see I see that daily vehicle trips what what they what they 244 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,320 estimated based on the square footage of the store. I was wondering if you had a 245 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:36,160 different expectation or any other number that you are I mean you're 246 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,320 running a business so you must have some projections. 247 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:42,320 » Yeah. Well, but we just we have projections of what Chipotle will pay us 248 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:46,160 in rent, but like because their credit tenant regardless [clears throat] of how 249 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:49,919 many people come or don't come, um they pay the same rent. So, we didn't really 250 00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:53,200 dig into with them exactly like what their counts would be, but I could get 251 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,400 that and follow up if it would be helpful. 252 00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:02,000 » Yeah. And and then I just want to curious, so you're you're assuming as 253 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:05,760 well that there will be delivery to customers, not just deliveries. I 254 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:09,840 understand the late night deliveries of, you know, products coming into the 255 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,760 store, uh, wholesale, but like you're going to do GrubHub, 256 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,799 » pick up, you're saying? >> Yeah, pickup. GrubHub and all that sort 257 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,480 of thing as well. >> Again, I'm not 100% sure of what the 258 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:23,919 volume would be on that, but I definitely do know that they have a 259 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:28,559 number of parking spaces that they've asked to be made available for 260 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:33,120 short-term parking for uh for customers to come pick up and and and leave. 261 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,880 » Who is they? Chipotle. >> Chipotle. But you're going to be owning 262 00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:40,720 Chipotle and you also own the shopping center. Is that correct? 263 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,880 » Or you're shopping center. But yeah, but we're leasing to Chipotle. 264 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,080 » He's not the franchisee. >> I'm not the franchisee. 265 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,600 » You're you're not the Oh, you're you're just the landlord. 266 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:52,640 » The landlord. Yeah, >> I get 267 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:56,559 my I thought you were also the uh landlord. 268 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,039 » Okay. So Oh, so you've done a parking study then for this? 269 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,320 » Yes, I believe so. >> It's in the It's in the pack. 270 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,919 » This parametric study? Yes, correct. >> Yeah. No, I I see it here. I see it here 271 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:11,520 that where you calculate the trips generation report. Have you done any 272 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:18,000 other parking studies for this cost plus >> plaza? They have. So, um the cost plus 273 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:22,400 plaza I found that they at their peak that that parking lot is 41.9% occupied 274 00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:24,799 » at the peak. >> At the peak. 275 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:29,679 » Oh. Oh. >> It's a total of 291 parking spaces. 276 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,480 » Uh >> oh. 277 00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:36,159 » Okay. I that's fine. I could I'll leave my comments to the comments. This is 278 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:39,360 just question period because I' i've been to this shopping center many times. 279 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,280 I'm sure you have as well. >> Um 280 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,360 » but um >> yeah, I mean I guess I would just say 281 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:50,320 about that is that um it's there's a there's a concentration of parking in 282 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:55,280 the area around Trader Joe's, but generally there's quite a bit of parking 283 00:20:52,960 --> 00:21:00,080 in the on on like the I guess that's the south side of the parking lot. And so 284 00:20:57,679 --> 00:21:05,200 our uh expectation and I think that of parametrics is that that parking will 285 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:10,480 kind of like basically filter south into the lot over time. 286 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:14,400 » Yeah. My only issue with is that people have like there's some crazy thing that 287 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,720 Trader Joe's releases into the air which makes people go insane at parking. 288 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:19,200 » Right. >> Oh yeah. 289 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:23,280 » And then the other and it's true. It's be careful of your car there. The only 290 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:27,120 other thing is um leaving that parking lot, making a lefthand turn onto that 291 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:30,080 road I think is really dangerous. Uh and people take their life into their hands 292 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:33,200 sometimes taking a left out of there. So I I kind of wish there was a it's not 293 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,640 your issue of course, but it's more the city issue. I wish there was some better 294 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:40,400 way of left turning out of that parking lot cuz it's kind of dicey. 295 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:44,480 » Yeah, we agree. It would be great to have a traffic light there or something. 296 00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:48,640 » Yeah, something because Yeah, >> especially bike lane makes me nervous. 297 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,280 Yeah, that's one of the >> that I think we do hear about that I 298 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,120 assume. Right. But >> yeah, 299 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:58,799 » staff may be able to further describe it, but I think there is a grant in 300 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,679 process studying perhaps that area. >> Again, it's not that's not your issue, 301 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,520 it's the city's issue. I'm just kind of like, 302 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:09,280 » well, I I mean, I guess I differ a little bit because if if it was if they 303 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:15,520 met a certain threshold, they'd have to do conduct this traffic study that would 304 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:19,280 probably account for the number of vehicles that the difficulty of turning 305 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:23,120 in and out, getting in and out of that shopping plaza, which is 306 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:27,679 » from my experience quite difficult. Um, I I guess I just I look at this study 307 00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:31,120 and it and it I understand I've had conversation with staff who explain that 308 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:35,280 this is typical the way that this calculated. I have trouble believing 309 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:40,559 that like because vitamin shop is going to be decreased 2,000 square ft that the 310 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:44,559 number of customers are going to decrease by like 50%. 311 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,720 I just don't understand how that how that happens. 312 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:50,159 » Yeah, I don't know. I don't again I don't know if that's necessarily our 313 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:54,400 purview but >> in staff's 314 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:59,280 estimation this this this holds water this this traffic study analysis 315 00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:02,960 » it is actually interesting point >> especially like the assumption that 316 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,000 we're chopping this up because traffic to that vitamin shop has not been 317 00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:08,480 » that's the reason that it doesn't meet the threshold according to this 318 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,559 analysis. >> Yeah. 319 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:13,760 » Well there is there is plenty of parking in that. I mean if you go further away 320 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,320 from >> there's lot there's lots now. So I I I 321 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:21,760 suspect that it's going to be used more uh you know because it's open late at 322 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,520 night. You don't have too many places that are open late there like Chipotle 323 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,280 would be open. That'd be a great place for people to go get you know 324 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,200 » late night dinner. >> Yeah. Post 325 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,280 » kids, >> you know, post um 326 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:40,320 » Yeah, postplanet commission. I was thinking something else, but 327 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,520 » Okay. All right. >> And there's no dedicated parking spaces. 328 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,919 I thought you were going to ask that, but no. Uh, I think not. I think that 329 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,400 there's a couple of spaces that we expect to have signage that says like 330 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:58,240 Chipotle parking, maybe two spaces, I can't remember exactly in the lease. 331 00:23:54,640 --> 00:24:03,039 » Um, but not like, you know, that that's for the pickup like the kind of quick, 332 00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:05,360 you know, pickup spaces, but broadly the uh the customers will park throughout 333 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,000 the lot. >> Are you going to have to do a lot of 334 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,559 modification of the building for kitchen use? I mean, like putting in a kitchen, 335 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:16,799 etc. in there. >> Chipotle will do that. our job will be 336 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:21,520 to split the current um 6,000 square foot uh space into two 3,000 square foot 337 00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:25,840 spaces >> and that's um you know a pretty big 338 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:30,320 project for us and then Chipotle once we complete that will take it over and then 339 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:36,400 build out the internal kitchen facilities for ourselves. 340 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:37,840 » Okay. All right. Anything else? Okay. 341 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:43,600 » Any more questions? No. >> Do we have any public comments? Thank 342 00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:43,600 you. Thank you very much. 343 00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:50,360 If you're on Zoom and you'd like to provide a public comment, please raise 344 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,360 your hand. 345 00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:56,720 » Okie do. Um, all right. Bring it back to the commission. We've already mentioned 346 00:24:55,039 --> 00:25:00,480 parking. Is there anything that we want to discuss? 347 00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:06,159 » No, I think it's a I think it's a great addition to have a Chipotle in town. I 348 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,200 think it's great. I just I hope if this if it's true that there is a grant that 349 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,679 the city is working on the traffic analysis because as we've all observed 350 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,600 it's getting in and out of that cost plus plaza isn't can be a nightmare 351 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:22,240 especially the 101 traffic and I just mentioned one other thing is that 352 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:27,039 there's a emergency pet uh veterinarian in that plaza and if you need to get in 353 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,200 there at peak time which is >> I don't think getting in is the problem. 354 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,080 I think getting out is >> both. Yeah. I mean 355 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:37,600 » even driving past is >> Yeah. So maybe we can say just as a as 356 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,799 from our forum as planning commissioners since the owners of the shopping center 357 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:45,760 are here. It would be great if there's an opportunity for you to talk and 358 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:50,159 promote and support any kind of traffic study or any kind of I mean that's not 359 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,600 part of any decision we make tonight but since we have a dialogue with you it'd 360 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,840 be great if you could look into that or support anything that the city does 361 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:01,039 because I do get stuck in that traffic as well. So 362 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:05,760 » yeah, I just want to say we've actually expressed I think directly to the staff 363 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:10,240 that we're really supportive of the study of that area and we very much 364 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,880 would love to see um what I think you guys are saying really which is to have 365 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,960 some kind of a traffic light. >> Yeah. Or or some, you know, turn 366 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:19,279 corridor safety thing because Yeah. Okay. That'd be great. That sounds good. 367 00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:20,880 » Well, thank you. >> All right. 368 00:26:19,679 --> 00:26:23,679 » I have no other comments. >> Great. So uh a motion. Do you want to do 369 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:25,039 the >> You want me to I know what I'm doing 370 00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:27,279 now. >> Yeah. Now that Natasha knows what she's 371 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:34,320 doing. Go ahead. >> Okay. So, we make a a motion to adopt 372 00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:37,320 the planning commission resolution 03 SL uh-2026. 373 00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:43,760 That's all I have to say. >> All right. Second. 374 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,520 » Second. A second. >> Excellent. All right. Roll call. 375 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,440 » Commissioners of Park. >> Yes. 376 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,799 » Commissioner Kingsdale. >> Yes. 377 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,080 » Commissioner Chalmer's? >> Yes. 378 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,960 » And Chair Swisser? >> Yes. Okay. 379 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,679 » Your motion passes. Four yeses, zero nos, one absence. Interested parties can 380 00:26:58,159 --> 00:27:03,120 appeal your decision by filing the required form and appeal fee within 10 381 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:07,279 days. >> All right. Excellent. Thank you very 382 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:11,080 much. All right. Next 383 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:16,440 4C 16 Elm Avenue APN021-223-49 384 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:26,080 Pski Pearlstein Architects applicant Michael Folk uh first residential zoning 385 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:29,279 district uh plan 260008 public hearing request for design review 386 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,440 to permit demolition of an existing single family residence in the 387 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:37,760 construction of new uh I didn't see how many square foot twotory single family 388 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:44,799 residence with an attached garage uh a floor area ratio exception to permit a 389 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:50,080 property with an F of 0.21 which is 393 ft where.192793 390 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:55,440 is the maximum allowed by the code. Uh slope use permit to permit 283 cubic 391 00:27:52,559 --> 00:28:01,600 yards of cut and 79 cubic yards of fill in conjunction with the proposed 392 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:05,480 construction staff report please. >> Yes. One second. 393 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:15,679 Hey, good evening planning commission. The item before you is PLN 26-008 394 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:20,559 for the property located at 16 Elm Avenue that is located just to our east. 395 00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:25,919 Um that is on the north side of Elm Avenue and a well landscaped residential 396 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,440 neighborhood. I've got an overhead shot for you on the left here again 397 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:34,399 highlighted with the orange boundaries and then a a Google Maps view of it. And 398 00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:40,559 the property in question is this tiled roof residence right here 399 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,840 in the middle. Uh so the project proposes to demolish 400 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,760 the existing residence and construct a new 2970 401 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:54,000 ft two-story single family residence with an attached 175 ft garage/ gym 402 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,760 space. As designed, this would require planning commission to approve a design 403 00:28:55,679 --> 00:29:03,200 review entitlement, a floor area ratio exception, and a slope use permit. 404 00:29:00,355 --> 00:29:06,640 [clears throat] Here's [sighs and gasps] the site plan. The structure in 405 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:11,039 question, the new residence is shown in this dark gray, and it might be easier 406 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:15,840 to see in in the plans in front of you, but the existing residence is shown in a 407 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:20,000 dashed line here. It occupies a somewhat similar footprint, though obviously the 408 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:24,640 new residence will be will have a larger footprint. Um, and then this area in 409 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:29,760 question here, which is on the western portion of the lot, would be the 410 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:33,440 proposed J AU. And then there is a two-story portion of 411 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:38,000 the residence twotory above grade which is at this the rear of the structure. 412 00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:42,640 And then there's the property is also developed with an existing ADU at the 413 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,760 the rear of the lot and then a small accessory office. And I will point out 414 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:50,320 in the in the staff report I believe the word office is dropped. At one point it 415 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:56,799 says 123 square feet. It should say office. That is what that portion is 416 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:59,760 referring to. So my apologies there. And then I'll get into the floor plans 417 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:04,000 here for you. This is the first level. This is the garage and gym area. So the 418 00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:09,520 garage is located at the bottom of this image with the the gym which would be on 419 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:13,919 the western side of the of the floor plan here or the top as you can see it 420 00:30:11,919 --> 00:30:17,360 in the slide above. And if you can see this this kind of 421 00:30:15,679 --> 00:30:21,120 dashed line here that delineates the areas of the residence on this level 422 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,240 that are more than 50% below grade which is why there's a large portion of this 423 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:29,360 residence which does not count against the floor area ratio. So it is all this 424 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:35,279 this garage here that is exempt. There's I think it's 246 square feet uh here and 425 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:41,520 that is included in the floor area ratio. 426 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,039 Moving to the first floor, it is again just living area. There's 427 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,960 bedrooms at the front, a living area, and then a kitchen at the rear. Um 428 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:55,000 again, this wing here on the western portion of the lot is the junior ADU 429 00:30:51,679 --> 00:30:55,000 that's proposed. 430 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:02,880 And pretty much this entire level, I'll I'll 431 00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:06,480 discuss the J AU section when we get to the floor area ratio exception, but this 432 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:11,760 this area will count against the allowed floor area ratio. 433 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:16,480 And here is the second story portion. The second story is limited just to the 434 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:21,039 rear of the the residence here. And it is the the primary suite. 435 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:26,320 And then it because of the the slope of the lot, it's going to you'd be able to 436 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:30,159 basically access the backyard here. Um where the the that two-story portion 437 00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:33,399 would be grayed at the at the rear of the home. 438 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,960 And here are the renderings and elevations here for you. This is the 439 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:43,600 front on the top. Uh it's what you would see from Elm Street. And then the 440 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:50,799 twotory portion is shown kind of this the gray behind it here. 441 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:54,240 Western elevation is just beneath it. And the highest point of the residence 442 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,799 would be actually this the peak of the chimney. I believe it's just over 27 ft 443 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:03,480 tall. The peak of the roof it's beneath that it's 25 and change. 444 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,600 » Then here are the north elevation just the rear of the home on the top here. 445 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,000 And that that is the second story portion. This is just how it would 446 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,679 appear from the rear of the lot where again it meets grade. 447 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,919 And then beneath it is the eastern elevation. Uh and I will just point out 448 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,840 the the staff report does call out a large window and this is the window that 449 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,679 it's being that we are discussing in the staff report. And so one of the findings 450 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:33,200 in front of you tonight is that there is not an unreasonable loss of privacy 451 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:36,799 associated with the project. So it was raised in a public comment that this 452 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,919 window will face a neighbor. Um so it's up to you if you find that it is does 453 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:46,360 result in an unreasonable loss of privacy. is something you could uh make 454 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,360 request modifications to. 455 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:52,960 Okay. And then to speak about the floor area ratio exception, I think we're all 456 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:57,600 familiar with the the floor area rules and how they interplay with the slope of 457 00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:04,000 a lot. So the allowed floor area ratio here is 0.19 or 2793 458 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:07,600 square ft. Um the project proposes an F of 0.214 459 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:16,240 or 3,148 square feet. um which is what 0.102 460 00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:20,000 below the neighborhood average when you conduct a survey of all the properties 461 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:23,360 within 300 feet. I will just point out and it does say so in in the staff 462 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:28,880 report a number of those properties are much smaller lots which kind of skews 463 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:32,640 the data. There are believe properties of a similar lot size over 10,000 square 464 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:37,200 feet and this would be the fourth largest home of those 11 properties. And 465 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:42,640 then just to kind of make it clear, this is how we've broken out the floor area. 466 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:49,440 So there's 256 ft of the garage that is included there. 1448 is excluded. The 467 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:54,000 first floor uh includes 2007 ft of living space without the JADU and I'll 468 00:33:52,399 --> 00:34:02,000 get into that last actually. The second floor totals 705 ft and the rear office 469 00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:06,080 building is 123 ft. Now the JADU and ADU are both they meet the provisions of the 470 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:13,760 code to be granted the 800 square foot floor area bonus. The two units together 471 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:18,240 total 857 square ft. So 57 square ft of the combined two units is being included 472 00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:24,159 in the floor area. So that's why it says the JADU has a 57 square foot impact on 473 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:27,760 the floor area ratio. So other than that, the the rest of the ADU and the 474 00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:31,480 rest of the JADU footprint are not included in that total. 475 00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:38,000 And the last entitlement requested is a slope use permit. This is triggered by 476 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:43,200 the cut and or fill of 25 cubic yards or more on a property with a slope greater 477 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:48,240 than 25%. This project proposes a total cut and fill volume of 362 cubic yards 478 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:52,240 which is required to dig the residents into the hillside and then create a 479 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:55,839 landscaped area at the sides and rear of the lot. And this is the the grading 480 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,280 plan here for you. And it's also included in the plan set if you want to 481 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:03,680 look at it a little closer. But again, most of it is to access the garage and 482 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,400 in there. And then the landscaped area I'm referring to is kind of all back 483 00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:11,599 here. There's some terracing that will be done at the rear of the lot. 484 00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:15,760 and you have received a total of three public comments on this project. I would 485 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,359 say they are generally all opposed to the scale of of the proposed 486 00:35:17,839 --> 00:35:24,320 development. There is one from the neighbor directly to the east which is 487 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:28,640 the one with the potential privacy impact based on that kind of large 488 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,839 picture window. And with that, I'm going to close out my 489 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,839 remarks here. So staff's recommendation is that you hold a public hearing, 490 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:40,079 consider public testimony, discuss the project, and adopt planning commission 491 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:43,359 resolution 04-2026, which approves the project subject to 492 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,280 findings, conditions of approval, and a class 2 SQA exemption. And that 493 00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:52,520 concludes my report, and the property owner and project architecture are here 494 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,520 for you as well. 495 00:35:56,079 --> 00:36:00,720 » Uh, first we have to hear the It's not time for your question. It's 496 00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:04,880 » got staff questions. Oh, go ahead. Staff question. Sure. 497 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:08,079 » Right. And I had called Alex about this earlier just to understand the square 498 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:12,480 footage, which I do understand now, but I want to make sure cuz what was the 499 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:19,320 number that you had up on the screen the the for the permitted F? No, not the per 500 00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:19,320 the requested 501 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,359 because cuz here it says 4532 502 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:35,520 » I think >> and then the permitted F is 3093 and 503 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:40,320 what was the number 31 >> I think it may have been the at the time 504 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:45,359 that that was written I think the the 57 square ft had not been included in it. 505 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:48,320 It's the 57 square feet which is why the number is 506 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:54,880 » got it. Okay. So the >> but it is 3,148 507 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:59,520 » square feet. Okay. And then so the way I understood it the entire 508 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:04,320 property is 5,396 ft of which 509 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,000 1,448 is below grade. So you don't have to 510 00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:15,760 include that. And then 800 of that is JD, ADU, and 511 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:22,160 ADU. So you don't include that either. So you take 5396 and you take away 1448 512 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:26,640 and you take away another 800. And that's how you get to the 13148. 513 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,640 » Yes. >> Okay. 514 00:37:29,839 --> 00:37:34,839 Okay. Everyone with me on that? 515 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,320 Because what? 516 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:47,040 » Because they're not subject to F, >> right? 517 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,079 » The J AU and the AD. >> Okay. 518 00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:51,040 » Yes. >> But and everyone's [clears throat] on 519 00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:54,079 the same page, right on that? >> Yeah. 520 00:37:51,359 --> 00:37:58,880 » Yeah. Okay. Good. >> Um I have a comment or a question to 521 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:04,640 staff. Um the comment the late comment that was received from Miss Lacy Trisha 522 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:09,359 Lacy regarding the existing ED you constructed before July 1st 2023. Can 523 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,960 you give me clarification on what the rules are on that? 524 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:18,720 » Uh yeah to touch on that. So that it was an existing accessory structure. It was 525 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:22,160 converted to an ADU in 2024 under a building permit. So staff's 526 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,119 interpretation is that that does meet the requirement of the code for the 527 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:29,599 exception. The way it's phrased in the code is ADUs and J ADUs constructed 528 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:34,720 after I'd have to look at it for the >> July 1. Yeah, July 1st, 2023. Um, those 529 00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:39,680 are the only units that are eligible. So, the structure did exist, but it was 530 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:44,480 not used as an ADU at that time. So, staff's position is that by converting 531 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:48,880 it to a JADU or excuse me, an ADU in 2024, that's the date that we're using 532 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:53,839 for the the F. Were there a remodel of the building after July 1st, 2023, or 533 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,720 did they just not call it that before that and now they're calling it that? 534 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:02,320 » I can't speak to that. that the documentation that I I found in our in 535 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:06,400 our docu in our files was not didn't provide any sort of clue as to whether 536 00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:11,119 or not it was an ADU at that or used I suppose used as a guest house or ADU 537 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:14,960 prior to that but it was legally create converted into an ADU 538 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,480 » and and then therefore does not go against the 539 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:22,240 » square footage. That is staff's interpretation. The planning commission 540 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:26,079 can choose to interpret it a different way if it wishes. 541 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,119 » Okay. All right. 542 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,880 Any other questions? But, uh, >> nothing. I mean, I had, maybe this is 543 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:37,839 more for the applicant. I had questions about access to the ADU because I I went 544 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:41,680 to go see it. And I mean, you can't really see much because it's a lot of 545 00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:45,520 foliage and vegetation. And um, and I saw lock gates, so I wasn't sure what 546 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,280 was going on behind at the back of the property, but it sounds like that there 547 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,079 isn't I mean, there is an existing ADU there. 548 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:56,640 » Yeah, there there's two accessory buildings in the rear of the lot. It's a 549 00:39:53,680 --> 00:40:01,040 It's a 123 square foot office and needs >> four 550 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:05,680 and the ADU adjacent to it. They're connected by a by a deck. 551 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,960 » Okay. But I'm assuming the the ADU needs to be accessed by the street at the from 552 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,680 the street level, right? >> I'm sure the owner and architect could 553 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,680 tell you exactly how it'll be accessed. I believe it's a path that runs up the 554 00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:17,760 um the western side of the propert that you can use to get back there. 555 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:24,640 » Okay. >> All right. 556 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,640 » All right. Do we have the applicant? 557 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,480 Yes. 558 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,160 » While Alex is getting set up, I'll tell you I've scripted this because I want to 559 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:52,160 get a lot of information to you as efficiently as possible. So, 560 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:57,119 » okay. Could you introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Rich Pearlstein. I'm 561 00:40:53,920 --> 00:41:03,640 with Bolski Pearlstein Architects and I want to wait until Alex gets a chance to 562 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,640 throw that up and 563 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:13,520 Okay, good. Thanks. Okay. Um um our office has worked with Mike Folk 564 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,440 for many years on other residential projects. Last year he asked us to begin 565 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:22,000 work with him on the design of his new home. This is a property that Mike has 566 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:26,000 owned for 21 years. He and his wife, his former wife, raised their daughter here. 567 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,079 Mike has deep roots in Marin. He decided that he wanted to create a new home for 568 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:34,640 himself and his family. The existing home was built in 1937 as a 569 00:41:32,319 --> 00:41:38,800 one-bedroom home. In the 70s, an existing covered patio was fully 570 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:42,880 enclosed to make it a two-bedroom home. Today, it has an F, the house itself, of 571 00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:46,319 just under.11, one of the lowest FS in the 572 00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:51,599 neighborhood. Even though this property is notably larger than most neighboring 573 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:55,520 lots, given the existing home's Spanish inspired character, Mike wanted to work 574 00:41:53,440 --> 00:42:00,400 within the Mission Revival style. Where am I pointing? Where am I pointing? 575 00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:04,079 Okay, good. There you go. Uh, with their light stuckco walls, tile roofs, 576 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,839 occasional arches, divided light windows, and simple architectural 577 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:12,160 detailing. These would be combined in our design with what we're calling 578 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:16,000 biomodern elements, more contemporary forms with planted 579 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,760 green roofs. In this way, we believe that the design would be sensitive to 580 00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:23,760 the neighborhood's fabric, maintaining continuity with other similar homes in 581 00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:27,520 the area with planted roofs acting as a softening feature and a linkage between 582 00:42:25,839 --> 00:42:33,040 the gables. Our site concept was constrained in a 583 00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:39,079 few significant ways. Mike wanted to preserve the Chinese 584 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,079 pistache tree in the front yard. 585 00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:45,839 And the trees uh size and placement dictated the location of the garage and 586 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:50,240 driveway that would be tucked underneath the main floor. 587 00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:53,680 And you're familiar with that. Uh as well as the pedestrian approach up to 588 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,839 the front door, which is the heavy blue line leading you up behind the tree. 589 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,760 Along the western side, the building maintains a greater than minimum setback 590 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:06,079 from the acquired six-foot setbacks varying from 7 to 10 feet as the 591 00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:09,839 building jogs along. Towards the rear of the house, the Japanese maple on the 592 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:15,200 western property line dictated that the building remained far enough away from 593 00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:21,400 the tree to not affect its root zone. On the uphill, we needed to respect the 594 00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:21,400 large oak trees root zone. 595 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:32,640 Went too far. Sorry. There we go. 596 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,720 The existing garage behind the house is sided in an excavated cut that was made 597 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:42,560 into the hillside back when the garage was first built. As you can see here, 598 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:46,720 so it seemed logical for us to make use of that cut in extending the main floor 599 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:50,480 back into that area. The property size allowed Mike his desire to substantially 600 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:55,280 have a one-story floor plan for the house's core functions with only the 601 00:43:52,640 --> 00:44:01,839 primary suite upstairs. During early schematic uh design, 602 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:06,319 we developed two massing alternatives for an upstairs primary suite. Mike 603 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,839 viewed both of these with the neighbors at 20 elm, realizing that they may have 604 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:14,000 a preference as to where it would be located with their preferred location to 605 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,000 the northernmost portion of the building. 606 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:27,599 The upper floor roof height varies from about 13 feet to about 21 ft at the 607 00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:33,040 ridge along the east elevation. Though of course the first 6 to9 ft above grade 608 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:36,880 are masked by the eastern fence which is this shading block here. So at the north 609 00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:40,400 elevation of the upper floor, the building essentially is a single story 610 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:45,520 stepping out to grade. As Alex mentioned, the homeowners at 20 created 611 00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:50,119 a photo simulation using the story poles to show a view from their rear yard 612 00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:50,119 area. 613 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,760 Although note that we've shifted because the AI had the windows in the center, we 614 00:44:55,839 --> 00:45:01,920 shifted it so that the photo is a little more accurate. 615 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:06,880 Um, based on the photo simulation, we think that it was taken from a vantage 616 00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:14,640 point on their site towards the back of the their deck. Um so the red triangle 617 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:19,119 if you can see that in on the screen represents where the views of East Pac 618 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,800 would be hidden behind the proposed upper floor. The east pink east peak 619 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:27,839 would otherwise be visible from the remaining center and southern areas 620 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,240 when you're standing more to the middle of the deck. We also however looked at 621 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:35,480 an alternative window configuration for this elevation 622 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:43,200 uh based on the [clears throat] letter that the owners had sent into staff. 623 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,480 This would keep the higher windows in the stair hall for morning light 624 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:54,640 then eliminate the middle windows and keep the lower windows so that we could 625 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:58,800 get natural light back into the corner of the dining area on the main floor. 626 00:45:57,359 --> 00:46:04,319 While we believe that the larger architectural uh assembly of the windows 627 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:10,160 may be look better, we think that the visual impacts on the neighbors may 628 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:13,599 argue in favor of modification. In the final design, the three 629 00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:20,640 traditional gable forms are linked with the biomodern sections of the building. 630 00:46:17,839 --> 00:46:25,680 Two gables linked, two gables linked, and two gables linked together. 631 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:28,560 Conceptually as well as practically, the various elements create a well 632 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:32,720 articulated building that we believe is respectful to its location. 633 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:36,960 The landscape design firm put together a series of illustrative images that we 634 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,480 think conveys a good sense of how the finished project will feel when 635 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:46,000 landscaped. And these are the landscape drawings that were in your package. 636 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:49,520 In summary, we chose a substantially one-story design that echoes and 637 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,920 respects the mission influence of the current house and other homes in the 638 00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:57,599 neighborhood. The street facade follows the 639 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:01,520 streetscape as each success successive home coming down Elm is cited comparably 640 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:05,680 lower than the house immediately uphill from it. 641 00:47:04,319 --> 00:47:09,040 We're responding to the crossgrade of each property. We believe that the home 642 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,800 artfully integrates into the neighborhood with its historic 643 00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:17,160 references rather than alternatively just building a purely modern home. 644 00:47:18,079 --> 00:47:24,440 And that's all three questions. 645 00:47:26,319 --> 00:47:33,040 » Um, yeah. Would you mind answering the question about the ADU at the back and 646 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:39,520 access to the ADU? >> Yes. So, um, you'll notice 647 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:44,319 if you go to your south elevation, it's a little fainter in this perspective. 648 00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:49,880 The set of stairs continues up the side of the house. And if I went back to 649 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,880 back, 650 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:58,079 if you imagine those stairs are they start up now they're coming up the 651 00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:02,560 east side. So behind the sixoot fence the stairs come up. There's a a walkway 652 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:05,839 and then they start to step up and in the new landscape design the stairs will 653 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:09,680 get here and at that point they will start to cut the middle of the site and 654 00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:13,823 their existing stairs that they connect to. And that that probably shows up in 655 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:18,079 the landscape site plan if you if you [clears throat] 656 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:22,880 » Yeah, shows on my my site plan as well, I think. So, the intent is that the um 657 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,200 the resident of the ADA would go up the east side and then connect to those 658 00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:28,480 stairs. >> Okay. So, if somebody's in there and 659 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,359 they have to just walk all the way up the stairs to get in 660 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:37,920 » one way or the other. >> Okay. Um and then the other question I 661 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:42,160 had is what is the final parking count? because I understand you have a big 662 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:46,640 garage and some driveway space. >> Yes. So, and one thing I wasn't sure if 663 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:51,200 Alex was going to mention, but if you look at the floor plan at the back of 664 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:55,440 the garage, there is an area that Mike is intending to put an elevator in at 665 00:48:53,359 --> 00:49:00,720 some point. So, he's trying to connect so that as he ages in place, as many of 666 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:07,040 us have discussed, aging in place sometimes precludes stairs. And so 667 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:11,599 a a driver of that garage was getting back to where we could actually step up 668 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:16,000 into the elevator for a second floor. So that becomes the southeastern corner of 669 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:21,359 the second floor in the garage up into the closet. 670 00:49:17,839 --> 00:49:24,160 Um but so as to your question, if one parked tandem in the garage, you would 671 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,440 have two plus two in the garage. And then of course there are at least two in 672 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:31,040 the driveway. And Larksburg's requirement is two plus two. 673 00:49:29,359 --> 00:49:34,559 » Okay. But it sounds like you can fit six if you do. If you do tandem. 674 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:38,640 » Yes. And >> in the driveway, given car sizes these 675 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:42,640 days, possibly, but certainly six. >> Okay. 676 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:45,640 Thank you. Anyone? 677 00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:58,480 » Um, you comment on again I'm looking at at the bus line and letter uh about the 678 00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:02,559 modification of the of the second story to pull back from the property line a 679 00:50:00,319 --> 00:50:08,720 bit. Have you guys considered uh the massing of that second story on 680 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:17,960 the property line and whether or not you have some alternative ideas about 681 00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:17,960 lowering that a bit? Um so let me get to 682 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:31,680 this. So and I'm not sure this is the letter from the neighbors at 20. Yes. So 683 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:37,839 I guess the question at hand is in in consideration that um Mike had had those 684 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:41,599 discussions early on um whether the masting would have been 685 00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:49,920 better there or here which was the other alternative. And so if you think about 686 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:53,680 the height we could say well maybe we'll lower the slope a little bit and that 687 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:59,520 point would come down about a foot. Can you see the pointer? Okay. Okay. Yeah. 688 00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:03,760 Um, you know, you could consider that. Um, Michael, as you have may have 689 00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:09,760 noticed and you will notice when he stands up, is very tall, 6' 7, eight. 690 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:13,680 So, the height upstairs is just somewhat sensitive, at least in terms of the 691 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:17,359 plate height, the height of the walls. >> And so, the real question, even if you 692 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:24,000 say, well, let's push that back a few feet, I don't know that the perception 693 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:29,440 of it changes that much. So, I guess the way that Mike and I had been discussing 694 00:51:26,319 --> 00:51:34,960 it was that as we went through this, if we went about and pulled much of that 695 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:41,839 glazing out so that we're just getting not essentially clear windows dropping 696 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:48,720 light in that that ideally that would take care of the primary concern. But if 697 00:51:45,359 --> 00:51:52,880 you imagine that wall pushed back 5 ft, let's say, where it'll take a magic 698 00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:59,200 number, it doesn't really appreciably change that wallpap as seen from here. 699 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:02,559 Does that make sense? >> What What about the ceiling heights on 700 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:06,559 the inside? Because there's a living room, right? And then a bedroom. 701 00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:10,240 » Yes. And they both of the >> How how high are those? 702 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:14,240 » Uh I'm going from memory. The ceiling height in the bedroom is 9 ft. And this 703 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:20,160 is why I was mentioning as Mike may describe in a few minutes. And I recall, 704 00:52:17,839 --> 00:52:23,839 let me flash forward to um looks like living rooms 10 ft. 705 00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:29,520 » Actually, Alex, you had that information, didn't you? 706 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:33,280 » It's on the A31's got the elevations. 707 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:37,119 » A31. She looked at 708 00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:43,040 » Yeah. So, I believe we're 10 foot floor to floor, which so is my point of puts 709 00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:47,440 the kitchen at just under uh 9 ft, which is I don't know that we've built a 710 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:54,640 project of late that went lower than that. So, 711 00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:57,640 it's not it's not an unusual number. >> 10. 712 00:52:57,839 --> 00:53:07,920 » No, 10. I can't say. It's too small. It's too I can't read it. 713 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:12,160 » But to be clear, the living here. So um 714 00:53:10,319 --> 00:53:16,680 Alex, can you switch to the building sections because I have not included 715 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,680 those in 716 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,359 might be easy. 717 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:32,800 So, while we're waiting for that, so there is the height at the kitchen, 718 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:37,520 which is I'll call it a flat ceiling, which is the floor underneath the the 719 00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:42,000 primary suite. And I'm going from memory, Mike recalls, I think we went 720 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:46,640 10T floor to floor. And so, that puts the ceiling just under 9 ft. The living 721 00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:51,040 room is different because it's a higher ceiling space with the green roof over 722 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:55,839 it. So, it sits higher, but it's not really they're they're 723 00:53:53,359 --> 00:54:00,000 not tied to each other, if you will. So it's the height of the dining and living 724 00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:04,440 area. I think that we're that may be gerine that you're wondering about. 725 00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,359 » Thank you. So 726 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:21,040 yeah, so from the first floor level to the second floor level in squinting, but 727 00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:26,000 I believe that's 10 foot. >> Yeah. So the height here it ends up 728 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:33,240 given the construction it's a little under nine feet 8 foot n 8 foot 10 from 729 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,240 here to there 730 00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:37,640 » in the catch. 731 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,480 » Okay. >> Thank you. 732 00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:47,079 » Any other questions? 733 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:57,520 I guess I just want to understand you're showing this this photo from the moose 734 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,119 leen or it's a rendering I guess based on the story polls. 735 00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:03,359 » Yes. >> Are you saying it's not accurate? 736 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:08,160 » Oh, it was just where whatever system may have built that the size and 737 00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:11,520 location of the windows within the gable it that was centered in 738 00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:15,119 » the window location. Window location but the other than that the scale is is 739 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:18,720 pretty accurate. Yeah, they were breaking up the the uh story poles, 740 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:22,960 which is a great way to do uh photo rendering. So So the massing of the roof 741 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,040 is accurate to the story poles. >> Yeah. 742 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,960 » Which is if the window is >> Yeah, the window is a little off, so I 743 00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:28,800 just corrected it. >> I see. 744 00:55:27,359 --> 00:55:33,680 » Just like the picture of the deck view today versus the deck view with the 745 00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:37,920 house. That would be go from green plants all around to large house. 746 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,119 Right. >> Sorry. Could you please? 747 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:46,160 » You have no You said no concerns about this one in terms of its accuracy. No, I 748 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,799 think that the I'll say the walls. >> Yeah, they're they're tracking the story 749 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:53,440 polls, which is as it should be. >> Cool. 750 00:55:50,319 --> 00:55:58,079 » And so what what is behind I'm trying to I can I can't see actually with my eyes 751 00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:03,760 can't see the small writing, but on the on the the whole proposed site plan. You 752 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:07,920 have the I see the entry of the house. I see the the rear of the house where the 753 00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:12,240 living room and then the primary bedrooms up top and then there's a yard. 754 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:16,720 Yeah. in between [clears throat] there and the ADU is just is just yard. 755 00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:20,000 » It's it yeah it's a patio >> patio area. 756 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:25,040 » In other words, within within this area between two wings. 757 00:56:21,599 --> 00:56:29,520 » Yeah. Did you consider I mean I think the main issue here is privacy and and 758 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:36,480 bulk and massing. I think you understand that and we have three three pe 759 00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:42,799 neighbors who raise that issue. Is there another design that you've considered 760 00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:49,200 that wouldn't require a second story right next to their the yard at least of 761 00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:53,680 that pushes it back or pushes it forward to the to the front of the house or it 762 00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:59,599 pushes it further back on the property? >> Well, I I think the appropriate thing if 763 00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:02,760 Mike you want to Yeah, it's great. 764 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:13,119 Uh my name is Mike Folk. I've u been a Larksburg resident for 21 years. Uh 765 00:57:11,359 --> 00:57:18,720 served on multiple committees in the city. So I'm been in the community for a 766 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:24,319 long time. Um we raised our family there. Uh so I have 767 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:28,160 a great appreciation for the town and a lot of sensitivity to the neighborhood 768 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:34,480 and how that house would integrate into the neighborhood. Um, 769 00:57:31,359 --> 00:57:41,040 so if you look at the uh if you saw that first uh slide that Alex put up showing 770 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:46,160 the neighborhood, um, the property was sort of this remainder piece when they 771 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:50,960 subdivided Elm. They went with 50 foot wide lots, 150 ft long. They were all 772 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:55,920 7,500 feet, sort of like coming right down the hill until they got to this 773 00:57:53,200 --> 00:58:02,240 last piece uh before it kind of it turns onto aacia. and 16 Elm was the 774 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:07,680 remainder. So 16 Elm actually touches seven different properties. Uh it is 775 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:12,000 almost it's 14 and a half thousand ft. So it's almost double uh what the other 776 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:16,000 lots are. Um, 777 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:20,240 so that's that's created an unusual situation, but we wanted to keep the 778 00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:25,200 rhythm of sort of stepping down the uh hill and that's why we opted for 779 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:29,040 substantially a one-story house with all the garage tucked underneath and we're 780 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:33,680 digging that out. But really, if you look at the existing house, the floor 781 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:37,200 plate for the existing house is the same floor plate for the new house. So, we're 782 00:58:35,119 --> 00:58:41,760 not changing elevation there. And we really wanted to keep that stair step 783 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:48,000 down. Now, obviously, when you add a second story, uh that's going to have 784 00:58:43,839 --> 00:58:52,000 some impact. So, my process was to talk to the neighbors early on. So, every one 785 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:57,680 of the every one of the neighbors that uh wrote in um I told them a year ago 786 00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:02,640 what we were starting to do. Um but I knew that 20 Emily and Andrew would be 787 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:08,160 the most impacted. And so, that's really where I started. And so last October, I 788 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:14,720 went to them when we were just starting our design phase with only hand sketches 789 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:19,359 and said, you know, there's there's basically two places that we could add a 790 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:23,359 second story. We could either add it more to the middle or we could add it 791 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:28,559 all the way to the north and push it to the back of the property. Um, and they 792 00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:33,599 said at the time like, you know, we we'd prefer not to see this, but you know, if 793 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:39,119 all things being equal, we would take the version that pushes the bulk to the 794 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:42,640 back. And I happen to agree like if you're going to you're going to take a 795 00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:48,880 slope property and there's an existing cut in it, why don't you move one 796 00:59:44,799 --> 00:59:54,000 twotory element deepest into the cut? So that cut, as you saw from that second 797 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:59,200 story, comes out onto grade. So that means that the first story there is 798 00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:06,240 substantially below grade. So that that kitchen and dining room are like six 799 01:00:01,359 --> 01:00:10,440 feet under grade. So um can we go to that one? The eastern view. 800 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:26,000 This one's fine. So 801 01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:32,240 this is the 30 foot uh that's that's the max that can go the 30 foot height line. 802 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:35,760 Now clearly we we our goal here was to keep something that was fairly modest 803 01:00:33,839 --> 01:00:38,880 and really from a street level that's actually what it is and this is 804 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:43,760 basically replacing a one-story house with a one-story house. And we uh put 805 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:51,520 the twotory element into that cut. So like I said is really from grade here up 806 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:59,280 to the uh up to the eaves it's like 9 10 ft and up to the peak I think is 12 or 807 01:00:55,200 --> 01:01:05,599 13 total from the grade. Um so that was the thinking like how do we how do we 808 01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:09,839 minimize that impact and I I understand that certainly from 20 elm there will be 809 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:13,040 impact. I mean there's just no there's no getting around that. And that's why I 810 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:19,839 started that process early with them. That's why uh we you know they 811 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:24,559 registered their um their interests early on and we moved forward from that 812 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:28,880 point. And I know that historically the commission has wanted to see neighbors 813 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:35,520 work with each other before coming to this forum and then you know you having 814 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:41,200 to decide something like that. Um so that's that's the process there. Um, you 815 01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:44,400 had had questions about the ADU. >> Just out of curiosity, um, have you 816 01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,160 talked to them since the story polls went up? 817 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:51,200 » Yes. So, okay. So, >> I I delivered plans to everyone back in 818 01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:56,319 April when we actually had the full plan set, and that includes not just the 819 01:01:53,680 --> 01:02:01,359 three that uh that wrote in, but also other neighbors. Uh, and then when these 820 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:06,000 story polls went up that day, I texted everyone and said, "I'm available to 821 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:12,720 meet and talk." And so, yes, I did go over to uh Andrew and Emily's place and 822 01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:16,960 looked at it from the backyard. And there's there's no question there was an 823 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:21,200 impact. Like, you know, if you put uh you put a property, if you put a 824 01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:25,119 building there at the setback, there's going to be impact. Um we're happy to, 825 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:31,280 as Rich said, we're happy to work with the windows. Um, but if you if you you 826 01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:36,400 know code allows for up to 30 feet of building height and we're trying to 827 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:40,480 minimize that as much as possible and I think we've done a pretty successful job 828 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:44,960 there. It doesn't mean that there won't be impact impact but it does because you 829 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:50,000 have these lots that are only 50 feet wide. If you look at the rhythm of the 830 01:02:47,359 --> 01:02:54,720 houses going up Elm and down Elm, everyone's at their setbacks on both 831 01:02:51,680 --> 01:03:01,359 sides. So if everyone's got five or six foot setbacks, 832 01:02:56,799 --> 01:03:04,400 you know, as you go up to I think 36 El like I mean these houses are right next 833 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:09,200 to each other. They're two stories right next to each other. So that is not 834 01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:14,480 uncommon in that neighborhood. Anyway, I digress. Um I wanted to answer your 835 01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:19,760 question about ADUs. So the ADU was actually built in 2014 as a accessory 836 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:25,520 structure. It was not a accessory dwelling structure at the time. Clarks 837 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:29,599 didn't really allow ADUs. Uh they didn't want to have extra units and as you know 838 01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:34,960 with the arena numbers that has changed dramatically and so we updated we didn't 839 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:40,720 make any changes to the uh the structure itself. It always had sort of a 840 01:03:37,359 --> 01:03:45,680 kitchenet and that kind of thing. Um but before we rented it out and it is rented 841 01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:50,880 out now before we rented it out we made it legal. And uh so if you look at that 842 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:54,400 application it was strictly a name change. it was going from an accessory 843 01:03:52,799 --> 01:04:02,319 structure to an accessory dwelling structure so that we could legally uh um 844 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:07,039 lease it out and uh it wasn't without significant cost as it turns out um to 845 01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:12,480 go through the process with Larksburg um but Larksburg got another extra reena 846 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:17,760 unit out of it um so you know I think that was generally good and as far as a 847 01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:22,000 you know the the point of ADUs and the point of the state wanting ADUs is to 848 01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:26,480 create extra housing and we've done that. We built it and 849 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:31,039 we're renting it and so we created that extra housing in the neighborhood. Um, 850 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:33,839 so that's kind of the history on the ADU and how it came to be. 851 01:04:32,319 --> 01:04:39,280 » Got it. >> Um, 852 01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:42,720 I'm going to I'm going to reserve the rest of my time 853 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:47,359 just so that if there's someone that comes up and I can address a neighbor's 854 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:51,440 concern directly, I'm happy to do that. Um, but you know, I could tell you all 855 01:04:49,359 --> 01:04:57,280 sorts of things about like why this is our, you know, 30, 40year home and how 856 01:04:54,480 --> 01:05:02,799 you make a a house work like that and you know, why I think doing something 857 01:04:59,839 --> 01:05:08,240 that's mission inspired but biomodern, having this sort of these three gabled 858 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:12,480 sections linked by a meadow is, I think, pretty progressive and uh takes into 859 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:17,280 account the kind of thing that the kind of thing that Larksburg would like to 860 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:21,280 see as opposed to a modern white box or another modern farmhouse or that kind of 861 01:05:19,119 --> 01:05:24,079 thing. So, we work hard on that. 862 01:05:22,559 --> 01:05:26,960 » Yeah, I mean the the design looks beautiful for sure. Um, I do want to 863 01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:30,799 jump back to Andrew's question real quick and I wasn't sure if I I missed 864 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:36,160 it, but basically I'm going to hold up uh C2.1 which kind of has this uh 865 01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,240 » the paper area there. >> Oh, yeah. 866 01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:40,960 » Um and right now there's no there's no house there. 867 01:05:39,359 --> 01:05:44,880 » Um obviously it's a patio, it's enjoyable. Is there any design that 868 01:05:43,119 --> 01:05:48,720 would remove the need for the second floor, preserve the same square footage 869 01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:52,559 you have, and then move part of the house into there? Is that not 870 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:57,039 » basically you move that square footage into that? So, if you're if you're 871 01:05:54,799 --> 01:06:03,520 taking the mission style as kind of your vernacular, you know, having a courtyard 872 01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:08,640 is standard. Um, that's also the view of Tam. So, we're organizing that courtyard 873 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:13,039 around a view. Um, if you take that second story and drop it right in the 874 01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:19,359 middle, what you've got is sort of a uh setback to setback, one big flat yard, 875 01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:22,799 it doesn't it doesn't really it's it's not a great design. 876 01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:26,240 » Wait, I don't think he means you didn't mean this area here, did you? You meant 877 01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:27,680 this area, >> right? 878 01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:33,039 » Yeah. I mean, >> didn't you better address? Yeah. 879 01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:37,280 » Yeah. Right behind the >> You're talking backwards. 880 01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:40,160 which just goes goes higher up the hill. >> I think Pearl Stein was thinking coming 881 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,640 in. >> I was actually asking that I understand 882 01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,079 your question. >> Okay. 883 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,160 » I I thought you were talking about that area 884 01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:49,520 » about what's in between >> two separate areas. 885 01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:56,079 » I think that's what >> Andrew was saying. [laughter] 886 01:06:53,039 --> 01:07:00,720 » The the main question is like is there a place where it's not a second floor? Cuz 887 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:05,839 like you said, you've built this beautiful patio around a tam view. Um, 888 01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:10,000 and the only way you can achieve that is by 889 01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:11,680 taking away someone else's tan view. If >> that's not true. 890 01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:19,280 » Okay. >> Um, if you we'll uh let me go back to 891 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:22,799 the uh view from 20. >> If I change it from taking away 892 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:25,440 someone's tan view to materially impacting someone's tan view, would that 893 01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:29,599 Okay. Yeah. >> So like if someone were to build next to 894 01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:34,640 you and materially impact your cam view, would that would you oppose that or 895 01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:37,280 would you support that? >> I mean 896 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:42,240 » hypothetical. Okay, that's fair enough. That's right. Yeah. 897 01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:45,839 » I I guess the question they're asking maybe is this being asked right now is 898 01:07:43,839 --> 01:07:50,960 is there a way that you can spread the property out more along the property 899 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:55,119 along the land as opposed to going up you go along the property? And that's 900 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,599 what what you're asking, right? >> Yeah, 901 01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:03,799 » it's a fair question. >> Uh I think it was slide number 902 01:08:00,799 --> 01:08:03,799 two. 903 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,400 Go back. 904 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,080 » Go back. 905 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:47,719 two or three I don't remember the one that basically shows the uh 906 01:08:42,799 --> 01:08:47,719 » the cut and how the bill six act 907 01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:58,359 » no >> yes 908 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:08,640 so if you're if our interest was to build 909 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:15,040 only in the cut um and not not cut further into the hill. And so, you know, 910 01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:20,799 at least historically, larks larks has been very opposed to sort of regrading 911 01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:26,239 uh especially slope properties. And so, we've worked within the cut and that's 912 01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:33,920 that's essentially this one. You can see the uh grade actually up there, but this 913 01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:39,279 is the existing cut and conraints on the property. 914 01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:42,719 So that's where we put the house, but there are these trees that also 915 01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:47,120 constrain the property, too. So it's not if you move the mass farther up the 916 01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:53,440 hill, then you've moved right into a heritage oak. And so that's problematic. 917 01:09:50,719 --> 01:09:58,080 If we're pushing out, we're pushing out to the uh west, then we're into a 918 01:09:55,360 --> 01:10:04,080 Japanese maple. If we're pushing out to the south, well, we've got a front yard 919 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:10,080 setback and we got a tree there. So, um, unless we're building something up here, 920 01:10:07,679 --> 01:10:15,600 which would be very obvious from a lot of properties, you know, really you're 921 01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:20,239 trying to put the mass into the cut and keep it as low as possible. And that's 922 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:26,320 why we built essentially a one-story house with this small two-story element. 923 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:32,719 And that upstairs is, you know, we put the gable end uh toward Andrew and 924 01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:36,159 Emily's side. So, it goes longer. It's I think the I don't know what the width is 925 01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:38,719 there, but um you know, if you're putting a rectangle there, you're 926 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:42,080 putting the short end toward your neighbor and you're putting the long end 927 01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:49,600 on your property. Um and that's what we did. And we and we actually um 928 01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:57,440 so this this mass here, we actually cut this corner back here. It's sort of an 929 01:10:52,480 --> 01:11:02,560 odd odd shape. Get to that uh the story pole planner. 930 01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:10,320 » But we really we really made an effort to minimize the effect of 931 01:11:07,199 --> 01:11:16,000 Yeah. So right there we actually cut this corner right here so that it would 932 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:23,920 impact them less. Um this is their backyard and you can see from most of it 933 01:11:19,679 --> 01:11:29,920 you can see tan from this corner. Um you you lose a bit of tan. Um so 934 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:34,880 and I'm I'm again I'm not in any way suggesting there's not an impact. There 935 01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:40,239 is an impact. Um, but it's also, 936 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:45,120 you know, to say that they've lost all their TAM view is not true. Actually, 937 01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:49,760 from most of their backyard or for a good portion of certainly the majority. 938 01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:56,719 Um, it still maintains a TAM view and it's not a remote portion. It is the 939 01:11:51,840 --> 01:12:02,159 central portion. Um, so and I said before like I think the commission would 940 01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:05,840 choose to have neighbors that try to work their problems out before they get 941 01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:11,400 here and that's absolutely we did um starting a year ago. 942 01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:11,400 » Okay, great. 943 01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:18,320 Great. Can we uh any other real good >> watch? 944 01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:25,199 » All right. Excellent. I will address. So there are two other letters that you got 945 01:12:20,719 --> 01:12:30,640 » u from tan elm gave uh and their concern is um because they sit lower and they're 946 01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:36,000 also on a about a 3500 foot lot. So it's a very small lot that our project sort 947 01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:42,080 of looms over them. Definitely a concern. I get it. Um 948 01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:46,800 when we when we removed our driveway up the west side and pushed the building 949 01:12:44,239 --> 01:12:51,360 out, the building still still a single story there got closer to the fence. So 950 01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:56,159 what I've offered up and what we sort of agreed upon was uh we would put a 951 01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:58,960 trellis on top of the fence that would uh cut down that sense of like looming 952 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:02,400 over. >> So more vegetation 953 01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:05,199 » more veget more vegetation higher. That's right. 954 01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:11,840 » Okay. Um, and it would allow our windows to clear and not look down into their 955 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:17,199 property. Um, and then for 110 Elm, uh, 110 110 Acacia, 956 01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:22,080 um, we did a render there. I can show it to you later. Uh, but I would say their 957 01:13:20,239 --> 01:13:29,040 view from the back of their house to that two-story element in our house is 958 01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:33,199 about 140 ft. Um, so it's not not right next door. It's it's a ways away. And 959 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:38,080 then and the last thing I'll leave you with is F. 960 01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:44,960 Um, as I mentioned, there are seven 961 01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:53,600 properties that touch uh 16L. Um, we are by far the lowest current F and 962 01:13:48,960 --> 01:14:01,360 the lowest requested F. Um, so ours is uh allowable 19. Uh, we're asking for 963 01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:12,800 21.4. It's 112% of F. Um, our neighbors are 90% 213% 136 136 185 213 and 454% 964 01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:20,560 of F. Our average neighbor that touches our property is 203% of F. 965 01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:26,320 So, you know, yes, we have a large lot, but that's the standard that is in our 966 01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:30,560 neighborhood. So, 967 01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:34,000 um, yeah, great. >> Any questions? Appreciate 968 01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:40,640 » it. No, we're good. You're good. All right. 969 01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:43,880 So, public comment. >> Yes, ma'am. 970 01:14:48,719 --> 01:14:53,600 » I am not nearly as tall as Michael. [laughter] 971 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:58,239 Um, for sake of efficiency, I just prepared something. Um, so my name is 972 01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:02,880 Emily Leiden. Um, and me and my husband, Andrew Busy, lived at 20 Elm. Um, which 973 01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:07,520 is right next door to the project. It's our first home. Um, we moved in about a 974 01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:11,600 year ago. Um, and then we had submitted a letter with some of the photos and 975 01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:16,400 some of the fancy AI rendering that my husband did. Um, and we really want to 976 01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:21,600 echo what Michael had said. appreciate him engaging with us from like the very 977 01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:27,760 beginning of um the project and really want him to build his dream home and his 978 01:15:24,480 --> 01:15:32,400 forever home here. Um but we do have concerns as you've seen by the photos of 979 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:36,640 the overall um size of the structure and where it's placed on the property line. 980 01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:41,679 Um particularly just the second story um there really impacts our experience of 981 01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:46,400 the backyard. Um, and as has been commented on before, our stretch of Elm, 982 01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:50,640 um, all the houses are on relatively small lots, but kind of thoughtfully set 983 01:15:48,719 --> 01:15:55,760 back from each other, which kind of preserves the views from everyone's 984 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:59,199 houses and from the backyards um, of Mount Tam and also the surrounding ridge 985 01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:03,600 line and how amazingly green and beautiful it is there. Um, but this 986 01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:07,280 design, especially mainly just the second story, kind of breaks that 987 01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:12,640 pattern and puts like the tallest part of the house, no other way to describe 988 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:19,280 it besides looming um over our backyard. Um, and right next to our property line 989 01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:24,880 alongside the deck. Um, and then one of the things we love about living in Larks 990 01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:30,320 uh is how amazing the weather it is every year. Um, and throughout the 991 01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:35,600 entire year. Um, and the deck truly is one of our living spaces. Um, and our 992 01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:41,120 main place that we spend spend time and entertain. Um, and when the story poles 993 01:16:38,719 --> 01:16:46,480 went up, we just walked out back and really just towered over our fence and 994 01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:50,400 um, and did from parts of the backyard kind of block our view of Mount Tam. 995 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:53,679 Though I agree with Michael that from different areas of the yard, we still do 996 01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:56,880 have a view. But the whole structure definitely does loom and it's the first 997 01:16:55,280 --> 01:17:02,719 thing you see when you walk out into our backyard. um which is included in some 998 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:07,360 of the photos. Um so this house would be a lot bigger than ours. Ours is 1100 999 01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:11,760 square feet. Um and it is asking for an exemption to go above what is requested. 1000 01:17:10,159 --> 01:17:18,800 And we know that exemptions are approved all the time for like very good and good 1001 01:17:14,159 --> 01:17:24,159 reasons. Um but I think this one is being used and massing the largest part 1002 01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:27,040 of the house kind of in a way that does impact us and our experience of our 1003 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:31,840 home. um and just 1004 01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:37,520 makes us feel a little bit enclosed in our backyard and blocks our view. Um so 1005 01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:41,520 I think we appreciate that Michael came to us with kind of two options when he 1006 01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:45,600 was first starting this, but I think regardless of where a second story was 1007 01:17:43,199 --> 01:17:50,320 placed, it was always going to be um impacting our experience of our backyard 1008 01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:57,280 where we spend so much time. So, obviously want him to get a a his plans 1009 01:17:53,520 --> 01:18:02,400 approved um to build a home there, but I think maybe a thoughtful redesign of how 1010 01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:05,440 big that second story structure is or even ideally not having it entirely 1011 01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:09,440 because I don't think there's a world where there's a second story there that 1012 01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:14,960 doesn't significantly impact our um our experience of our home. So, thanks. 1013 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:20,000 » I've got a question. >> Yeah. How would you redesign it if you 1014 01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:23,840 were to not um if you were not in your ideal world? 1015 01:18:22,159 --> 01:18:29,679 » I mean, I think you guys have made some good suggestions of 1016 01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:33,840 I mean, in an ideal world, we wouldn't have that second story at all. The house 1017 01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:38,320 is already quite sizable if you take into account the 1018 01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:43,199 basement area not being counted the far, the junior ADU, the additional ADU in 1019 01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:48,159 the back. Um, I obviously have no idea how Michael's intending to use it or 1020 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:52,159 family come in or rent out the ADUs, but um, 1021 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:56,000 but yeah, there is a big patio area. Ideally, keeping it to one story, I 1022 01:18:54,080 --> 01:19:00,080 think, would be ideal from our standpoint, knowing that 1023 01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:04,239 of course there needs to be a a middle ground. But I think even if you I think 1024 01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:08,080 Michael made the good point of even if you push it out a few feet, it's still 1025 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:12,719 going to look the same and feel the same from 1026 01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:14,320 from our view in the backyard. >> Okay. 1027 01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:18,440 » Yeah. >> All right. Thanks. 1028 01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:18,440 » Thanks. 1029 01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:33,760 » Hi, my name is Trisha Lacy. My husband and I live at 110 Acacia Avenue and 1030 01:19:31,679 --> 01:19:38,080 we've lived in Larksburg for almost 11 years now. Um I did submit a letter. A 1031 01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:44,880 number of the things have already been discussed. Um I want to begin with 1032 01:19:41,199 --> 01:19:50,800 saying um that I really like the modern interpretation of the California Mission 1033 01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:57,360 style. Um, I love the planted green roofs and um I appreciate um that they 1034 01:19:55,679 --> 01:20:02,640 will be preserving the three heritage trees and in particular the valley oak 1035 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:06,320 and the maple in the backyard um are very important because it's something 1036 01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:10,719 that we see from our backyard and it provides the maple in particular 1037 01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:16,960 provides important screening between the two properties. Um I do have some 1038 01:20:13,679 --> 01:20:23,679 concerns. one um we've discussed which is the ADU um and I I really question 1039 01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:29,199 that um reszoning something is the same as it 1040 01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:32,400 being constructed. It seems to me that the laws or the I don't know if law is 1041 01:20:31,335 --> 01:20:38,880 [clears throat] the right word, but that the code specifically says that the ADU 1042 01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:45,040 must be constructed after July 1st of 2023. And that is not what happened. So 1043 01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:50,960 I I question that that ADU should not be counted towards the total F 1044 01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:56,320 um the application of the 800 square foot ADU Junior ADU allowance. So Alex, 1045 01:20:54,719 --> 01:21:05,360 thank you for correcting that and I want to make sure that um that new number of 1046 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:10,480 the 3148 is reflected in um the exemption application or whatever the 1047 01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:14,880 exact terminology is. so that he's he's applying for the right thing. Um, in 1048 01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:20,880 terms of floor area ratio, exception, and overall scale, 1049 01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:26,080 um, I understand what Michael shared about neighboring properties. I do want 1050 01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:32,880 to point out that I don't know that any of the neighboring properties have a ADU 1051 01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:39,440 or a junior ADU on the property. And so when you consider that there's this from 1052 01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:45,600 what we see living below, I see the the ADU and then the office unit of 123 1053 01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:52,080 square feet and they're attached with a deck. The the net impact in in our 1054 01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:56,960 visual is nearly 600 square ft of building. And then now you're talking 1055 01:21:54,239 --> 01:22:02,159 about another junior ADU and this space that's underground. There is quite a lot 1056 01:21:59,679 --> 01:22:08,000 of building space and just not all of it is being reflected in the floor area 1057 01:22:04,719 --> 01:22:13,920 ratio. Um, in regards to the height of the second story window, yet or the 1058 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:19,040 second story bedroom wing, yes, from our home, we are from our actual residence, 1059 01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:22,960 we are quite far away. And I recognize that we do at the back of our property, 1060 01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:27,440 it's the way that we're able to utilize the capture the tam view, there's a 1061 01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:31,280 deck. And so when you are on that upper deck and you turn around and and you see 1062 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:38,239 the story poles, it it was quite dramatic. And so and also because of the 1063 01:22:34,239 --> 01:22:46,480 sloping from our perspective, we do see that 27 foot high roof line. And so um 1064 01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:52,960 or I guess it's 25 foot roof line with the three-foot um chimney. And so I 1065 01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:56,880 wonder if the chimney height could be reduced, if the overall pitch of the 1066 01:22:54,960 --> 01:23:00,880 roof could be reduced. I understand that he's trying to echo the pitch of all 1067 01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:05,679 three, but this one has a different orientation. So, if it was slightly 1068 01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:10,880 different, I don't think that's something that would be picked up um 1069 01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:15,440 when you're viewing it. So, I I do think that there's an opportunity to at least 1070 01:23:12,719 --> 01:23:21,199 bring down the height of that roof line. Um, and then finally, I just want to 1071 01:23:17,679 --> 01:23:27,679 make sure that there is true protection of these heritage trees, especially the 1072 01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:33,840 oak, which I think has a 42 foot diameter. Um, but that wouldn't be 1073 01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:38,800 right. 42 in and um and also the maple tree because there's going to be a 1074 01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:44,480 significant amount of earth work and I just worry about the um roots being 1075 01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:50,719 disturbed and then in particular as it relates to the seconds story bedroom. Um 1076 01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:56,080 it will require some significant pruning of that oak tree and I know you can only 1077 01:23:53,440 --> 01:24:01,679 safely prune a certain amount at a time. So if nothing else I think that work 1078 01:23:57,679 --> 01:24:06,159 might need to be staged. Um, so thank you. 1079 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:09,679 » Thanks very much. All right. Are there any comments on 1080 01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:14,920 Zoom? >> If you're on Zoom and you'd like to 1081 01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,920 comment, please raise your hand. 1082 01:24:15,199 --> 01:24:23,159 » No hands. >> Okay, great. All right, let's bring it 1083 01:24:18,719 --> 01:24:23,159 back to the commission. 1084 01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:30,639 Um, sure. Do you have any objection? Anybody? No. Go ahead. 1085 01:24:35,199 --> 01:24:41,440 I know he doesn't like that. Too bad. >> Um I totally agree on the trees. That 1086 01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:46,159 was you know a primary motive for us to keep those trees. So protection pruning 1087 01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:52,560 100% there. >> Um I do think there's with our ADU and 1088 01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:56,320 office um we we rent them together. So those are are a combined unit. I would 1089 01:24:54,639 --> 01:25:01,840 say I would argue that they're really one ADU and not two different buildings. 1090 01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:06,960 But from a bulk and massing standpoint, um, our property is 200 f feet in 1091 01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:13,520 length. The distance from the house up to the ADU and office is another 100 1092 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:19,040 and change. Um, so when you're looking at any one of the structures, whether 1093 01:25:15,679 --> 01:25:23,520 it's the ADU in its office or the house, that that bulk and massing is completely 1094 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:26,480 separated. like it's not, you know, you're not looking at x number of 1095 01:25:25,199 --> 01:25:31,920 thousands of feet >> the way you do with most houses, right? 1096 01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:36,400 This is a big lot. And I've been asked many times like, "Why'd you make the ADU 1097 01:25:33,679 --> 01:25:39,360 so far away?" Um, it was always intended to be like a different thing. And most 1098 01:25:38,239 --> 01:25:42,880 of the time when we have people come over, they look up and they're like, 1099 01:25:40,719 --> 01:25:45,280 "Oh, isn't that the neighbor?" They don't even recognize them and they don't 1100 01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:47,440 connect them. >> Yeah. 1101 01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:50,000 » So, I don't I don't think that was the issue 1102 01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:54,639 as much. was just whether it was just a question of F and and I think these 1103 01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:58,320 they've already decided that your ADUs are illegal and that's again not our our 1104 01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:05,120 area to discuss >> making the connection. Yeah, that's all. 1105 01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:10,360 » Okay, great. Thank you so much. >> All right, [clears throat] 1106 01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:10,360 let's bring it back sir. 1107 01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:17,679 Um I'll admit I I do have concerns a little bit about some of the privacy 1108 01:26:14,639 --> 01:26:21,199 impact. um if that's one of the findings we're supposed to find. I don't know if 1109 01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:25,040 I could plainly come up with that finding 1110 01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:29,440 » is it I if I can jump in for you. The one you are referencing I believe is 1111 01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:32,080 finding B uh for design review. >> Y 1112 01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:35,840 » compatibility with neighbors and the sentence in question reads 1113 01:26:34,239 --> 01:26:39,920 » further the proposed structure or addition avoids significant and 1114 01:26:37,679 --> 01:26:43,360 unreasonable loss or interference with privacy light solar access and 1115 01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:46,639 prominence and abuse. It's up to the commission whether or not 1116 01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:50,960 the impact is significant and unreasonable in order to meet that 1117 01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:55,600 finding. >> Okay. So, but like if I was saying I 1118 01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:58,639 think it would be unreasonable, you'd say that that would be enough to say 1119 01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:00,880 that doesn't meet the finding or I don't understand if I 1120 01:26:59,440 --> 01:27:03,920 » Oh, I'm just pointing out that that the language in the finding is that it is a 1121 01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:05,679 significant and unreasonable loss of privacy. It's not that there is any 1122 01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:09,120 impact. >> Totally. Totally understood. Understand 1123 01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:11,600 certainly up to the discretion. I think that's where I'm trying to that's where 1124 01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:16,960 I'm trying to figure out like what becomes unreasonable loss of privacy or 1125 01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:20,560 um view. Um >> there's there's no set standard 1126 01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:26,679 established in the in the code for that. It's up to your discretion. 1127 01:27:23,679 --> 01:27:26,679 » Cool. 1128 01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:32,159 It's not a state law. >> No. 1129 01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:37,920 » Yeah. There's no no constitutional right to a good view or good privacy. Well, 1130 01:27:34,639 --> 01:27:40,239 city some cities do have a uh view obstruction ordinance. Larksburg does 1131 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,880 not. >> Yep. Great. 1132 01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:47,280 » And this comes up very frequently in planning commission meetings when we 1133 01:27:44,159 --> 01:27:52,320 have second story additions that excuse me that look out onto neighbors etc. 1134 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:56,880 We've litigated this issue on many many many occasions. And so I guess the main 1135 01:27:54,960 --> 01:28:01,600 question is is this a significant and is it unreasonable? Um, and that that's 1136 01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:05,600 what is up to our discretion to to discuss is whether it is and you 1137 01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:08,880 certainly can think you in your opinion whether it is or not. That's up to you 1138 01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:13,679 to make that decision whether it's significant and unreasonable. 1139 01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,440 » Again, our our job isn't to redesign the house. 1140 01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:16,960 » Totally. Yeah, understood that. >> Yeah. 1141 01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:19,960 » Yeah. >> Cool. 1142 01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:26,880 » Okay. >> Me to go. Um 1143 01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:31,520 just want to make a comment to one of the uh public comment people about the 1144 01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:40,400 existing ADU and and can staff correct me if I'm wrong but when we reddrafted 1145 01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:46,080 the law here in Luxbor about the ADUs um this was required for it was required 1146 01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:50,080 for us to do this by state law and this I'm not sure what the exact language 1147 01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:56,320 says I don't have it to memory but the spirit of the law was to encourage ADUs 1148 01:28:53,600 --> 01:29:00,080 and we are not allowed to to account for them. So I don't think it really in the 1149 01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:05,280 end end of the day makes any difference when it was built right. Um I mean maybe 1150 01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:09,000 there's something in the language I think staff is discussing 1151 01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:17,440 » you know ADUs have a special status under state law 1152 01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:24,080 » and the state says that we have to accommodate the legalization of ADUs. 1153 01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:30,400 Um that date is not common among every city. I mean it's not necessarily every 1154 01:29:26,719 --> 01:29:35,920 agency has adopted the same standard. Um it is our interpretation 1155 01:29:32,639 --> 01:29:41,600 uh that of the law that this you know how did you word it meets our 1156 01:29:39,679 --> 01:29:47,520 yeah it's our interpretation that the ADU was constructed 1157 01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:54,159 after July 12. The ADU did not exist pre July 1, 2023. It existed after July 1, 1158 01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:57,040 2023 and is therefore eligible for the F bond. 1159 01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:59,679 » What do you mean it didn't exist? >> Well, it wasn't an ADU. 1160 01:29:58,159 --> 01:30:03,600 » It wasn't. >> You know, and the thing is we don't have 1161 01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:08,000 good documentation of what structures were used for historically. I mean, 1162 01:30:06,639 --> 01:30:11,920 » you know, people don't come out and say, "Oh, yeah, I have all this documentation 1163 01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:15,040 that says on this day it started existing as an ADU." So, 1164 01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:19,679 » I don't even think it was relevant, right? because my my my my recollection 1165 01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:24,239 was that if it's an ADU, it's an ADU. We just we the this what we were trying to 1166 01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:26,800 do was in encourage more ADUs to be built in the city. 1167 01:30:25,199 --> 01:30:30,719 » It's an issue of spirit versus letter of the law. And I think that the way that 1168 01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:36,480 this the state >> and the city wants to encourage as you 1169 01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:40,880 say ADU use that the spirit of the law is that it is an ADU now and it has was 1170 01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:44,239 after that and you've litigated that and certainly if someone objects to that 1171 01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:47,520 from a legal standpoint they certainly could take that up with the city 1172 01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:50,320 » and they and but the burden of proof is on yeah 1173 01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:53,920 » the the applicant or the appellant if they're challenging that. 1174 01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:57,360 » Yeah. It's not a planning commission issue. It's more of a legal issue that 1175 01:30:55,600 --> 01:31:01,120 the city attorney and the city would be dealing with if someone were to sue 1176 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:05,840 saying that it was not that. >> Right. I just wanted to add that comment 1177 01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:08,800 and just address it because maybe if you read the language that's 1178 01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:12,320 exactly what it says, but my recollection of what we were trying to 1179 01:31:10,639 --> 01:31:17,440 discuss at the time was to encourage the ADUs. So that's where that came from. 1180 01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:21,080 Um, but back to this particular property. Um, 1181 01:31:21,679 --> 01:31:27,679 you know, I'm I'm a little kind of challenged as to what to do here because 1182 01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:30,960 I think the the one-story portion of it is actually beautiful and I really 1183 01:31:29,679 --> 01:31:36,480 enjoyed listening to your thought process and the fact everything you've 1184 01:31:34,480 --> 01:31:39,840 tried to do to make this a very beautiful property, including preserving 1185 01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:45,679 the trees and how you've looked at the whole street as a design um is is really 1186 01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:49,360 good to hear. I don't love the sort of I call it kind 1187 01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:53,800 of the tower. It just looks a little bit like a tower at the back. Um 1188 01:31:54,960 --> 01:32:00,159 but I mean strictly speaking, you're not really doing anything wrong there. I 1189 01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:07,520 mean you're within the height, you're within the stepbacks. So um 1190 01:32:05,679 --> 01:32:12,159 I wasn't really sure which way to go on this. I mean I'm kind of finding it a 1191 01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:16,159 really hard decision. Um, I I don't I think it's a real shame that 1192 01:32:14,239 --> 01:32:20,400 it impacts the property next door. I mean, both sides. And I I wouldn't ne 1193 01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:24,719 want to look at that either and have them looking down on you. And I think if 1194 01:32:22,639 --> 01:32:31,880 this commission approves it, then you should definitely go with the the 1195 01:32:26,719 --> 01:32:31,880 altered window design. Um, 1196 01:32:32,719 --> 01:32:38,320 I mean, the one actually the one thing that kind of struck with me was the F 1197 01:32:36,719 --> 01:32:42,400 exception. I mean we have as a commission 1198 01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:46,800 agreed to a lot of F exceptions but in those cases it was a very very clear 1199 01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:50,800 reason where there just wasn't a lot of room and it was a very steep slope and 1200 01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:56,560 there were really good reasons to why we had to agree to that. This is a really 1201 01:32:53,120 --> 01:33:03,920 large property. Um and the STO the slope is not that steep 1202 01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:08,639 and um so I was kind of looking at that and saying gosh should we force you to 1203 01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:16,080 reduce the F and therefore reduce the size of the the second story just to 1204 01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:19,840 reduce kind of bulk and mass on that. Um but I actually don't know. So, I'm I 1205 01:33:18,480 --> 01:33:25,239 haven't made a decision yet, and I guess I'll just hear what my last two 1206 01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:25,239 commissioners are going to say. 1207 01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:32,920 » Okay, >> you next. 1208 01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:41,360 » Um, yeah, I would echo that a lot of that. You have you have to appreciate 1209 01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:46,239 the the the the style, the design and and the uh bio roof I think is 1210 01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:52,960 wonderful. I think it's a this the style is very compatible with the uh with the 1211 01:33:49,280 --> 01:34:00,480 neighborhood I drove by earlier. Um but it's um it really comes down to I think 1212 01:33:56,400 --> 01:34:09,760 this standard which u merits you know reading aloud for the for the design uh 1213 01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:14,560 review which is the proposed structure or addition avoids significant and 1214 01:34:11,679 --> 01:34:20,400 unreasonable loss or interference with privacy light solar access and prominent 1215 01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:26,719 scenic views i.e. views of hillsides, Mount Tam, 1216 01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:31,120 San Francisco Bay. Um, and and the standard is significant and unreasonable 1217 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:35,600 as as Commissioner Swisser said. So, you have to define both of those. Um, and I 1218 01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:40,719 think there's no question that it's significant. I think that the um, you 1219 01:34:39,199 --> 01:34:46,480 know, even applicant has admitted that there's is is there is an impact here 1220 01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:52,760 and um, and certainly the visuals show that it's fairly significant. The 1221 01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:52,760 question is is it unreasonable 1222 01:34:53,840 --> 01:35:01,120 and that's where I get stuck. Um you know I would just note that for 1223 01:34:58,639 --> 01:35:06,000 the F exception they all there is a similar similar question which is that 1224 01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:11,199 uh you know the technique or culmination of techniques results in a design design 1225 01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:16,239 that blends with a neighborhood or is of a unique architectural design that is 1226 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:21,600 sensitive to the immediate neighbors and compatible with the overall neighborhood 1227 01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:24,800 character. So in both but for both uh 1228 01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:28,960 standards, you know, you really have to factor in the the neighbors. And I guess 1229 01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:34,400 what I've seen this commission do in my short I mean I'm don't have a lot of 1230 01:35:31,679 --> 01:35:40,639 experience but I've seen a few um and and 1231 01:35:35,920 --> 01:35:45,360 from what I've seen when you ask a an applicant to go back to the drawing 1232 01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:51,120 board often they can come up with a with some sort of solutions with a feedback 1233 01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:56,159 that that you know it maybe there's there's got to be a way to 1234 01:35:53,520 --> 01:36:01,600 get the house that you want that's going also minimize make this make this impact 1235 01:35:59,920 --> 01:36:06,400 on the neighbors less significant. So I think that's where I would I would lean 1236 01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:10,080 is to say um you know please please go back to the drawing board. I love that 1237 01:36:08,239 --> 01:36:14,159 you talk to your neighbors. Unfortunately your neighbors didn't 1238 01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:17,760 really weren't on board. It sounds like I mean it's one thing to it's great you 1239 01:36:16,239 --> 01:36:22,159 got to talk to your neighbors but the whole point is you you want to try to 1240 01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:28,159 get some consensus here and I think that there isn't any consensus as it appears. 1241 01:36:24,719 --> 01:36:33,920 Um, so that's where I'm leaning, but I can be persuaded otherwise. 1242 01:36:30,719 --> 01:36:37,520 » All right. So, I think that uh I like the fact that you 1243 01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:41,840 worked with the neighbors. Um, let me Well, first off, let me say that the 1244 01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:44,719 design of your architectural firm is always 1245 01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:48,960 elegant and beautiful and it's a beautiful design. It's really, really 1246 01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:52,639 nicely done. Uh, the tower, it does have a little bit of a tower element on that 1247 01:36:50,719 --> 01:36:57,840 second story. The issue is whether or not you can build a second story without 1248 01:36:54,960 --> 01:37:01,280 doing that. Uh and I don't think you can. I think that you have a right to 1249 01:36:59,679 --> 01:37:04,960 build a second story. That we've gone through this many many times with people 1250 01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:08,320 doing second stories. If there's going to be a second story, how do you 1251 01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:13,760 mitigate it such that it does not impact the neighbors? Sorry, I've got to 1252 01:37:12,159 --> 01:37:16,880 cancel planning commission. Sorry, I'll talk to 1253 01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:19,920 you later. My wife is in Tucson with my daughter 1254 01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:24,239 right now. Um, so 1255 01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:28,719 I I don't think that you could put a second story here and not impact the 1256 01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:33,440 neighbors. And the question is, uh, again, as we've talked about it, is it 1257 01:37:30,480 --> 01:37:37,600 significant and is it unreasonable? Uh, it is somewhat significant, I think, 1258 01:37:35,199 --> 01:37:43,040 because really from the back of the lot is or from the your deck, the neighbors 1259 01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:47,199 is where you're seeing the blockage and you know, from your house, you are not 1260 01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:50,639 you are still seeing Mount Tam. Uh, and I think that the issue is you're not 1261 01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:55,760 going to make everybody happy all the time. And I think it is would be 1262 01:37:53,199 --> 01:38:00,480 unreasonable if the entire second story obstructed your view out of every window 1263 01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:04,320 of your house. To come off of your deck and see that, yeah, it's a bit of a 1264 01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:09,760 bummer, but this is something we've done many, many, many times. Um, and I think 1265 01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:12,800 that if you go down William Avenue, this issue has happened a lot. People lost 1266 01:38:11,199 --> 01:38:18,400 their Mount Tam views entirely because the House did that. Uh, so in my 1267 01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:23,199 opinion, this is somewhat significant, but not unreasonable. Um, and I do think 1268 01:38:21,679 --> 01:38:26,719 it is a beautiful design. I like your courtyard. I think it it complies with 1269 01:38:25,199 --> 01:38:29,840 the mission. I was in Tucson this last weekend, and there's a lot of uh mission 1270 01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:33,440 houses like that that have that element that are really beautiful. Um, I think 1271 01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:38,159 you have the right to build the house you want to build. Um, again, without 1272 01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:43,920 significant and unreasonable impact, and I don't believe that this does that. Um 1273 01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:48,960 so I think um I would um favor approval of this um as as it is with the one 1274 01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:54,639 exception that you do modify the window design so it is not um violating a loss 1275 01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:58,960 of privacy which it would be both on both sides by the way on yours as well 1276 01:38:56,719 --> 01:39:02,159 as your neighbors that it would do that. Uh I think this is a hard call and it's 1277 01:39:00,719 --> 01:39:05,040 tough because no one's going to be happy all it's like a solommonic decision that 1278 01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:09,440 you know not everybody's going to be happy with it. Uh but I think that 1279 01:39:07,199 --> 01:39:13,440 you're well within the allowed height. you're well within the allowed setback. 1280 01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:17,119 You're within allowed setback and that it is a beautiful design. So, I think 1281 01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:21,440 that it does improve the neighborhood and I think it does comply with larks 1282 01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:24,920 design standards and that's where I would stand on this. 1283 01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:33,199 So, any other comments? 1284 01:39:30,159 --> 01:39:37,119 » Oh, then it's two and two or it's three in one. It's the waiters. 1285 01:39:36,159 --> 01:39:40,400 Gosh. I mean, >> part of me thinks, what if you had to 1286 01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:44,239 choose between building a different design and and 1287 01:39:42,159 --> 01:39:49,520 keeping the tree? I mean, do you know what I mean? It's 1288 01:39:46,159 --> 01:39:53,119 like I'm just kind of almost, you know, it's there's some something has to give 1289 01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:56,320 at some point. So, either you lose your view. I'm talking more to the neighbors 1290 01:39:54,880 --> 01:40:01,280 here. It's like you don't want to lose the tree, but on the other hand, 1291 01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:05,440 um, where else is the second story going to go? It's this is this is hard. I I do 1292 01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:10,560 agree with Commissioner Swiss that this is actually a really hard one to to um 1293 01:40:08,480 --> 01:40:14,960 come to a decision on. >> Can I uh can I staff a real quick 1294 01:40:12,239 --> 01:40:18,800 question uh more point of order? Um how far away does one need to live from the 1295 01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:22,800 house to make sure they're not in a conflict of interest? I live on Elm 1296 01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:25,199 Avenue, so I want to make sure brought that up at the beginning. 1297 01:40:23,679 --> 01:40:28,400 Apologies. Kind of thought that would be one thing 1298 01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:31,600 you guys monitored, but I'm just thinking through 1299 01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:33,440 » feet is the standard. There is a difference. 1300 01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:37,360 » Is the crow flies or is the >> Yeah. Yeah. And 1301 01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:41,119 » anyone know off top of their head how far? I think it's far enough because 1302 01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:45,280 it's a half a mile drive. But >> where where on where on Elm are you? 1303 01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:48,080 » 355. >> I'm sorry. You want to check? 1304 01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:50,320 » 355. Let me think about that for a second. 1305 01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:53,840 » It's I was thinking more of the It's pretty much from 106 1306 01:40:52,159 --> 01:40:57,440 » 500 ft. >> Okay. Golden. Awesome. 1307 01:40:55,199 --> 01:41:01,040 » We didn't catch that when you know >> Golden like again this is like my fourth 1308 01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,800 meeting. I just want to make sure I'm not like 1309 01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:05,760 » we get to the end of it and I'm like, "Oh, no." 1310 01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:10,800 » Nice of you to ask before you vote. So, >> yeah, you're you're outside of F. 1311 01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:17,480 » Golden. Cool. >> Um, okay. So, any further discussion? 1312 01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:22,119 Someone like 1313 01:41:22,239 --> 01:41:27,600 » You got >> Well, you have to make a decision. 1314 01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:30,920 That's why you're here. [laughter] >> You could 1315 01:41:32,480 --> 01:41:38,800 Can I ask maybe to Jeff like what what would become unreasonable? 1316 01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:42,400 » Well, I think again unreasonable would be in my opinion, this is my opinion, 1317 01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:46,400 you know, versus I have the same vote as everybody else. 1318 01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:52,080 My idea of unreasonable would be is if the house uh the the views from the 1319 01:41:49,679 --> 01:41:55,280 windows of the house was obstructed by the thing where it's now looming over, 1320 01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:59,199 you know, your living room window, which you had a view of Tam, now you don't. 1321 01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:02,560 That's not the case here. This is a case where a portion of the deck you don't 1322 01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:07,199 have a view and it's a partial view of town. You still maintain a partial view, 1323 01:42:04,639 --> 01:42:10,560 » but it it is it is an impact. I mean, you know, again, I I know several 1324 01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:13,360 properties on William where people went up second story and completely blocked 1325 01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:16,080 people's view. Yeah. >> Of Tam, and those have been approved. 1326 01:42:15,199 --> 01:42:18,560 So, >> they should be. 1327 01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:22,400 » Well, except we've done it. >> Well, I mean, I 1328 01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:26,080 didn't just to be clear, but >> yeah, there's no Well, put it this way. 1329 01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:30,159 There is no rule in larks. There's no law that says you cannot obstruct 1330 01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:34,560 another person's view. There are places in this county like Tibber or or 1331 01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:38,320 Belvadier where that is in fact the case. This is not the case in LSP. 1332 01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:43,280 » Does that become more true though when we're like if if say we're just doing a 1333 01:42:40,159 --> 01:42:46,719 second story but not exceeding F. >> I think I think you're right. Like it 1334 01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:50,239 doesn't exceed F. Second story. It's kind of like well I mean 1335 01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:53,280 » that there's still designer view when you do a second story there. But but in 1336 01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:56,639 that case the designer view is different I think than 1337 01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:59,440 » than the separate issues to be considered. 1338 01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:03,679 » Can I ask a separate question? >> It's actually for the architect. I know 1339 01:43:01,119 --> 01:43:10,960 we've closed the public hearing part of this but can um is is there a way um and 1340 01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:16,880 the problem is you are very tall. So I I I I this is going to be challenging that 1341 01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:21,600 you can bring down the um the second story or the ground floor or even the 1342 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:29,040 garage just to bring the height of the building down by a foot or two. Um this 1343 01:43:25,440 --> 01:43:34,239 one yeah the garage the height of the garage is set currently um so that where 1344 01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:38,320 the new curb cut would be the driveway would be it's more or less level into 1345 01:43:36,239 --> 01:43:41,520 the garage. Maybe your question is could we slope down into the garage and 1346 01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:44,560 excavate out that much more >> or the roof? I mean I don't know if 1347 01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:48,159 there's a standard I'm sorry I'm not an >> architect. I'll talk through it. So if 1348 01:43:46,480 --> 01:43:52,480 if we assumed okay we're going to go level in which is rational way to build 1349 01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:56,480 and then from the garage the height in there it's a little over 8 ft. So I 1350 01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:59,600 think I've got >> because of the slope of the garage it's 1351 01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:04,480 a little over 9 ft from the garage to the main floor. Nine and a maybe nine 1352 01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:08,639 and a half. Um because we set the main floor where the existing house is and 1353 01:44:06,639 --> 01:44:13,600 then from there to the second floor as we discussed earlier where the kitchen 1354 01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:18,320 is and the main floor to that to the primary floor is 10T so that you get a 1355 01:44:16,719 --> 01:44:22,560 little under 9 ft in the kitchen and again talking about Mike's height. So 1356 01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:27,760 that was how we set all the heights. Could we take the entirety of it and 1357 01:44:24,239 --> 01:44:31,360 just push it into the ground further? We could add a cost of excavation, 1358 01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:35,840 concrete, everything else. And then when you walk out to grade right now, 1359 01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:40,480 » the new walk more or less out to the courtyard more or less where it is now 1360 01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:45,679 because we kind of match the grades within inches. 1361 01:44:43,440 --> 01:44:48,639 There's always a way. So I don't know if that answers your question. 1362 01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:52,480 » I mean that that's what I was thinking is I think it because when I look at it, 1363 01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:57,040 I see sort of a tower and I was just wondering if there's a way to or even 1364 01:44:54,400 --> 01:45:00,480 you bring the roof down. in the roof and then 1365 01:44:58,719 --> 01:45:03,440 » I don't know if that wouldn't be that. >> Could you bring the plate height down 1366 01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:07,440 one foot? Let's just say would that be would that be an insubstantial would 1367 01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:11,600 that be substantially alter your design to bring the plate height down one foot 1368 01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:14,480 » cuz I have like 8 foot ceilings like in my house and we live with it and it's 1369 01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:16,639 fine. So, >> yeah, 1370 01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:21,920 » I know you're 67, but >> yeah. 1371 01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:26,000 » Um, the garage ceilings at 8 ft. The ceiling above the kitchen's at 9 ft, but 1372 01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:31,280 that's a big room. So, if you brought it down to 8 ft, it'd feel weird in a 1373 01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:35,920 larger room to have a nine less than an 8 foot ceiling. 1374 01:45:32,639 --> 01:45:41,520 » And at the um, you know, the whole the whole design here is three gabled 1375 01:45:38,639 --> 01:45:44,960 sections to give you this mission style. I mean that is the standard mission 1376 01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:52,560 vernacular >> uh a gable roof. Um and so 1377 01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:57,840 we have a 9 foot plate height on the second story. So to answer I think where 1378 01:45:55,840 --> 01:46:01,920 you're going with this if it all came down a foot or a foot and a half or two 1379 01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:09,600 feet would that make a difference? And my honest assessment is not really. I 1380 01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:14,639 mean, what I think the impact on Andrew and Emily is not necessarily the very 1381 01:46:12,639 --> 01:46:17,920 top. It's the mass. >> Yeah. The mass. So, 1382 01:46:15,679 --> 01:46:20,960 » it's the mass that drops down another foot. It's still that mass. 1383 01:46:19,440 --> 01:46:22,719 » It is still that mass, but it's less of a mass. 1384 01:46:21,440 --> 01:46:28,719 » Yeah. >> And so, I think a reasonable compromise 1385 01:46:25,119 --> 01:46:31,920 would be to bring it down one foot on the upper floor. I wouldn't touch the 1386 01:46:30,239 --> 01:46:36,159 lower floors because I think then you have that problem of it being cavelike 1387 01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:41,440 in that first floor. But in the in the upper floor, I mean a lot of mission 1388 01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:45,760 houses, etc. have a a shorter ceiling in in or you know lower ceiling on that 1389 01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:50,239 third on that second floor >> and it it wouldn't be that 1390 01:46:48,639 --> 01:46:53,840 huge an impact but I do think it would make a big psychological impact as well 1391 01:46:52,239 --> 01:46:57,199 as an impact on the massing of that structure. 1392 01:46:54,400 --> 01:47:01,840 » Put it this way when trying to find ways to make this work. I mean the other 1393 01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:06,239 solution that comes out is can you redesign something? 1394 01:47:04,480 --> 01:47:12,080 Can you redesign something to >> I guess if we had a a clear 1395 01:47:10,159 --> 01:47:15,440 Commissioner Swisser kind of put it well as far as like you know we have the 1396 01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:21,119 right to build a second floor. It does have um some impact um but I don't think 1397 01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:27,520 it's unreasonable. >> Could we bring it down a foot? Yeah, we 1398 01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:31,679 could. I think maybe you're right. It maybe it's a psychological I don't think 1399 01:47:29,119 --> 01:47:35,119 it'll have a appreciable difference. I think it the only reason I'm saying is I 1400 01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:39,199 think if we were to continue this and you were to come back with a one foot 1401 01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:44,159 redesign I think that you would make a lot of parties happier. Um, and I think 1402 01:47:42,159 --> 01:47:47,199 that it would go much I'm looking at just I'm listening to what my other 1403 01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:51,920 commissioners are saying here and I think that's their their main issue and 1404 01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:56,000 and again I'm trying to you know kind of like tow you know some line where 1405 01:47:54,480 --> 01:48:00,239 everybody you know no one's ever going to be totally happy but could we make 1406 01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:04,080 people happier and still >> here's my solution then that if that is 1407 01:48:02,480 --> 01:48:07,199 if the commission has generally agreed that that would be the thing that would 1408 01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:11,280 kind of get this over the line. Yeah. >> Here's what I would propose. 1409 01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:18,000 » Okay. We have a 9 foot plate height on that second floor. If we reduced it to 8 1410 01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:23,280 foot6, there's six inches of it. We have a 6 and 12 roof right now. If we bring 1411 01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:27,280 that down to a five and 12 roof, and we'd actually do five and 12 on all I 1412 01:48:25,119 --> 01:48:28,960 mean, you have to have a consistent >> Yes. 1413 01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:35,040 » all the gables. Yes. >> Um that gives us another 8 in out of the 1414 01:48:32,239 --> 01:48:36,560 um out of that peak. So, combined that's 14 in. 1415 01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:39,440 » Yeah. >> Um 1416 01:48:37,119 --> 01:48:47,520 » I think that would go a long way. So if I So I would say if you can approve it 1417 01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:50,080 stipulating that it has the 86 512 um 1418 01:48:48,159 --> 01:48:51,520 » on all the roofs and we change that window design. 1419 01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:56,560 » Yeah. >> Yeah, we certainly can make that kind of 1420 01:48:52,800 --> 01:49:00,080 motion. But you don't speak. >> No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm just saying 1421 01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:03,119 » we could agree to that and we could make that 1422 01:49:00,719 --> 01:49:05,840 » we could make that motion made. >> Um 1423 01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:08,159 » I I would kind of be curious like what are the neighbors 1424 01:49:07,199 --> 01:49:12,560 » Yeah. I mean I mean >> thank are we gonna keep going into a 1425 01:49:10,400 --> 01:49:16,560 » I don't but I'm saying I wouldn't reopen it but 1426 01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:20,080 I'm saying I personally think looking out that that would make a big issue. I 1427 01:49:18,480 --> 01:49:22,719 mean this is I mean this is a deliberative body obviously we're 1428 01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:26,800 deliberating right now. >> So I have a question for staff actually 1429 01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:31,280 don't go anywhere yet. So, if we were to come to, and I don't wish to speak for 1430 01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:34,960 anyone else on the commission here, um, if we were to come to some kind of 1431 01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:40,560 agreement where they would lower the roof, um, or the side I'm I'm butchering 1432 01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:43,440 all the words here. So, >> I think they they appreciate what I'm 1433 01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:47,840 trying to say. >> Is this something they can do working 1434 01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:52,480 with staff or do they have to come back to commission? How does that work? If 1435 01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:56,560 you are very specific in your feedback, we can certainly process it as staff. If 1436 01:49:54,480 --> 01:49:59,760 it's going to be general, please lower the height of the residence, then we 1437 01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:04,080 would want it to come back to >> Got it. Okay. 1438 01:50:01,679 --> 01:50:08,880 » So, we could, in other words, we could say very specifically, we would like to 1439 01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:14,800 see the roof roof pitch changed to 5 and 12 and a plate height reduced by 6 in uh 1440 01:50:12,320 --> 01:50:18,159 and make that as part of the additions for approval. We would impose that as a 1441 01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:21,840 condition of approval, but it would be based on your motion. 1442 01:50:19,679 --> 01:50:26,320 » You would oppose that as >> impose that oppose that. Impose that. 1443 01:50:24,480 --> 01:50:29,280 » Impose that. And that would save us the issue of having to 1444 01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:31,679 » because your motion is adding a condition of approval. 1445 01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:35,600 » There we go. Good. Correct. All right. >> Wait, what what do you guys think? I 1446 01:50:34,239 --> 01:50:39,040 have >> I'm bumped to hear the that's the way it 1447 01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:46,239 would go. And I I don't I'm trying to think if that like would that 1448 01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:51,760 meaningfully change it >> and it may not. I mean 1449 01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:58,600 » I I do get a little I don't know trying to think of 1450 01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:58,600 » your opinion too. 1451 01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:10,560 » Um yeah I think I think the there it is. Um, I think that's a 1452 01:51:08,719 --> 01:51:15,679 reasonable compromise. You know, from what I hear, it's 1453 01:51:13,440 --> 01:51:19,440 it's various factors. It's not just it's not just the the mass. There's privacy, 1454 01:51:18,239 --> 01:51:25,119 which we can address through the windows, the loss of a scenic view, as 1455 01:51:23,440 --> 01:51:27,920 you said, you know, there's been many cases like 1456 01:51:26,480 --> 01:51:33,520 this in the past, and it's not a complete loss. And uh you know I think 1457 01:51:31,280 --> 01:51:37,599 if you buy a house on a slope till this is like some this is sort of the the the 1458 01:51:36,000 --> 01:51:40,719 risk that you take. So I can I can >> and I guess maybe to the privacy side 1459 01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:43,199 those windows are staircase windows right? They're not even living area 1460 01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:47,199 windows. Yep. >> Yeah. All right. So let me make a motion 1461 01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:54,000 then. Um, I move to approve 16 Avenue uh per 1462 01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:58,880 the I don't know how you guys want to word it with per the recommendations 1463 01:51:55,360 --> 01:52:05,440 with the condition that the plate height of the second story is reduced by six is 1464 01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:11,880 it 6 in and that the pitch of the roofs are decreased from the current 6 and 12 1465 01:52:08,239 --> 01:52:11,880 to 5 and 12 1466 01:52:12,480 --> 01:52:17,440 » and the window >> and the window uh and the windows are 1467 01:52:15,199 --> 01:52:22,080 redesigned as per the discussion. to include that. So, 1468 01:52:20,239 --> 01:52:27,440 » okay. >> As a motion and then we will also modify 1469 01:52:25,199 --> 01:52:31,440 the findings in the resolution about those 1470 01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:32,960 » impacts, right? Accordingly, is that included in your motion? 1471 01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:35,280 » Yes. >> Okay. And that will include that in the 1472 01:52:34,639 --> 01:52:40,320 motion as well. >> Okay. And this is there something in the 1473 01:52:38,480 --> 01:52:43,280 in the plans about they're keeping those three trees that was raised by one of 1474 01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:46,320 the neighbors. >> No, no, no. They're they're 1475 01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:48,080 » they're keeping it. They will they'll preserve those three 1476 01:52:47,199 --> 01:52:51,599 » not affected. >> Okay. Not okay. 1477 01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:53,360 » We have an arbitr that's all. >> Okay. 1478 01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:59,040 » It's not part. >> So and and to improve approve the F 1479 01:52:56,080 --> 01:53:02,880 exception as again as as written. >> Okay. Would you like us to repeat that 1480 01:53:00,719 --> 01:53:07,560 those two conditions that you added? >> No. 1481 01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:07,560 » I think we got it. 1482 01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:16,000 » All right. Thank you. Carry on. >> Uh a second. Right. 1483 01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:20,800 » Let's have a roll call. Commissioners apart. 1484 01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:22,960 » Do you mind if I go last? Is that a thing I can say or no? It's okay to say 1485 01:53:22,320 --> 01:53:25,520 no. But >> you can say no. 1486 01:53:24,239 --> 01:53:29,520 » Staying is the other one. >> Discretion chair to 1487 01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:32,480 » Sure. You can whatever you can. You can >> come back to skip. Okay. So, let's go to 1488 01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,560 the other side. >> Okay. I'm going to start with 1489 01:53:33,440 --> 01:53:36,880 Commissioner Chalmer's. >> Oh. Oh, yes. 1490 01:53:35,760 --> 01:53:38,080 » Commissioner Kingdale. >> Yes. 1491 01:53:37,199 --> 01:53:41,360 » Chair Swiss. >> Yes. 1492 01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:46,159 » And Commissioner Zuck. >> Um, yes. 1493 01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:51,119 So, your motion passes with four yeses, zero nos, and one absence. Your decision 1494 01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:54,239 is subject to a 10-day appeal period. Interested parties can appeal your 1495 01:53:52,480 --> 01:53:57,760 decision by filing the required form and fee with the city clerk prior to 5:00 1496 01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:00,800 p.m. on the 10th day. >> Thank you. And I would like to make a 1497 01:53:59,199 --> 01:54:05,760 note to the individual, I forget, I'm sorry, your your name. Um Emily, yeah, 1498 01:54:03,360 --> 01:54:09,440 about the um issue of the affair. If you do have a question from a legal 1499 01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:12,000 standpoint, please bring it up with that. 1500 01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:15,440 » Yeah. then then the city council or the city attorney would be the person to 1501 01:54:13,199 --> 01:54:19,679 bring that up with if you do have a you know question on that. 1502 01:54:17,679 --> 01:54:23,000 Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you all. 1503 01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:28,400 » Use my gavvel. All right. Tough one. 1504 01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:31,280 » Hey. >> All right. Andrew may interrupt the 1505 01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:32,960 meeting for one second. >> You may interrupt the meeting for one 1506 01:54:32,639 --> 01:54:39,840 second. >> Andrew. So I my phone has died. I my 1507 01:54:36,719 --> 01:54:43,360 kids are at home with another kid. So, I got to find a way to get my phone. I 1508 01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:45,440 think is there charging everywhere? Did >> you feel something? 1509 01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:49,199 » Yeah, they're right behind you. >> Yeah, but it just didn't work. 1510 01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:53,280 » I'm sorry. >> What about 1511 01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:56,320 use my phone to call your phone? >> No, I just just have another cable 1512 01:54:55,280 --> 01:55:01,360 somewhere. >> I'm sorry for interrupting. 1513 01:54:58,480 --> 01:55:05,520 » Let's do the cere here. >> I did not plug it into the wall though. 1514 01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:08,000 I only plugged it into this set. >> Yeah, I know. I tried it. 1515 01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:11,920 » You want save? >> No, I didn't do it. Okay. All right. 1516 01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:19,480 Well, I'll just continue here while we're figuring out the phone issue. Uh, 1517 01:55:14,080 --> 01:55:19,480 all right. Next item on the agenda is 1518 01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:24,920 uh item D, two Palm Avenue, APN021-102-06. 1519 01:55:25,760 --> 01:55:32,000 Uh, city of Barksburg applicant Mark Bartendor Mitch owner R1 residential 1520 01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:35,920 general plan conformity finding adopt a resolution finding the vacation of a 1521 01:55:34,159 --> 01:55:39,119 3,47 foot portion of Palm Avenue of rightway 1522 01:55:37,599 --> 01:55:44,000 is in conformance with the Larksburg general plan. We have a report on that. 1523 01:55:41,599 --> 01:55:47,920 » Okay, this is just a really brief item so I'll try to make it quick. So, as you 1524 01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:54,400 know, from time to time, the planning commission votes on uh or makes um 1525 01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:59,040 findings of conformity with the general plan on various items. Most recently, 1526 01:55:56,320 --> 01:56:04,560 you did this for the annual capital improvement programming. Um I think it 1527 01:56:02,639 --> 01:56:09,599 was two meetings ago when you voted on that uh to make uh conformity findings. 1528 01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:15,119 In this instance, we had a fire at two Palm Avenue. Um, since that time, the 1529 01:56:13,360 --> 01:56:19,280 home was reconstructed. But while they were obtaining building permits to 1530 01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:22,800 rebuild their home, uh, a survey revealed that their freestanding garage 1531 01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:27,440 and driveway, which survived the fire, were located within the public rideway. 1532 01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:32,639 Um, it was sort of a surprise to everyone. Um, this portion of Palm 1533 01:56:30,239 --> 01:56:38,719 Avenue is a one-way street. It is a very windy part of town, a very hilly, steep 1534 01:56:34,639 --> 01:56:44,560 part of town. Um the applicant or this the property owner has exhausted other 1535 01:56:40,480 --> 01:56:48,800 potential avenues for resolution. Um and uh they are pursuing a quiet title 1536 01:56:46,719 --> 01:56:54,719 action with the city to acquire the land under the existing garage and driveway. 1537 01:56:51,199 --> 01:56:59,840 It is a um 3,47 square foot uh crescentshaped portion of 1538 01:56:57,119 --> 01:57:05,599 property along the side of Palm Avenue. Um, you can see the images up there on 1539 01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:09,360 the screen of the uh existing garage and the the driveway approach. It's 1540 01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:14,320 obviously been there for a very very long time. It's probably constructed 1541 01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:19,040 many years ago. Um, the concrete looks quite old. There's an old retaining 1542 01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:23,199 wall. So, um, this part of town along Madrron Canyon has a lot of these 1543 01:57:20,639 --> 01:57:28,400 situations where the there's no standard rightway width. We have lots of streets 1544 01:57:25,119 --> 01:57:33,599 of varying widths. Um lots of uh public rights of way that are of varying widths 1545 01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:38,000 and sizes. Um none of them are uniform. And uh we also, as you probably know, 1546 01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:42,560 have properties where there are garages in the public right away right now that 1547 01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:47,119 were built many many years ago um before we had uh regulations for this sort of 1548 01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:52,400 thing. So these are very old. Many of these are very old legacy structures. Um 1549 01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:58,159 and so in this instance after exhausting all avenues um public works and the city 1550 01:57:55,280 --> 01:58:05,199 agreed to initiate the vacation process. Um this is uh sort of a a first initial 1551 01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:08,719 step of that process is to make findings um that it is in conformance with the 1552 01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:13,520 general plan. There is a general plan policy and action item for these various 1553 01:58:10,639 --> 01:58:18,480 circumstances in in the in the general plan. Um so it does consider these types 1554 01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:22,400 of situations. We already have that in there. We're just asking the planning 1555 01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:26,320 commission to uh uphold that and make that finding as identified in the 1556 01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:33,119 attached resolution to the staff report. Um after this step, the um the item 1557 01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:38,719 would be scheduled at a future meeting for city council uh consideration. Um 1558 01:58:36,400 --> 01:58:42,480 that requires two separate meetings of the city council to discuss the item 1559 01:58:40,719 --> 01:58:47,760 where they would discuss the merits such as you know um do we want to do this? Uh 1560 01:58:46,159 --> 01:58:51,119 do we want to attach a value to it? those kinds of questions. In this 1561 01:58:49,679 --> 01:58:55,119 instance, the planning commission's purview is limited to just does it 1562 01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:58,800 conform with the uh general plan, the vacation of the rightway. And we have 1563 01:58:57,280 --> 01:59:03,920 found that it does. There are general plan policies to this effect. And so um 1564 01:59:01,599 --> 01:59:08,480 we're here because of state law. It does require this step in the process. Um 1565 01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:12,719 anytime you lease property or sell property that is publicly owned or have 1566 01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:16,080 a capital improvement program, you have the planning commission has to come up 1567 01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:20,000 with findings uh that it conforms the general plan. And this is just one of 1568 01:59:17,599 --> 01:59:24,080 those items that we see from time to time. So, um I will leave it with that. 1569 01:59:22,239 --> 01:59:29,520 The staff report kind of describes all of the details. It is exempt from uh 1570 01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:34,560 SQUA. There are two sections that apply in this instance, including uh surplus 1571 01:59:32,159 --> 01:59:38,719 government property sales. And so, um we recommend the commission 1572 01:59:36,880 --> 01:59:43,840 hold the hearing, consider any testimony, and adopt the uh resolution 1573 01:59:41,280 --> 01:59:49,440 finding that the vacation uh is in conformity with the general plan. 1574 01:59:47,679 --> 01:59:52,560 Okay. Any discussion with that? I didn't see 1575 01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:56,400 that anything that would indicate that it was not a conformity with the gyro 1576 01:59:54,080 --> 02:00:00,159 plan. Just in my reading of it, >> there's no presentation by the owners or 1577 01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:04,080 anything. It's just you guys. >> They're not even here because I do 1578 02:00:01,599 --> 02:00:06,560 remember this one when it burnt down and we approved the the building of that 1579 02:00:05,679 --> 02:00:10,639 house. Um >> there'll be two hearings like I said at 1580 02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:14,719 city council on the vacation. But um >> you know I had little I had more tr I 1581 02:00:13,040 --> 02:00:20,560 always have trouble with these when they come in because I just feel like it's 1582 02:00:17,119 --> 02:00:25,599 the land is so valuable and expensive and 1583 02:00:22,719 --> 02:00:30,400 » people are just getting land and giving the city is just giving it up. 1584 02:00:27,440 --> 02:00:35,280 » Um I know I've agreed to it in the past because I can see that there's the city 1585 02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:39,760 can't really do very much with it. In this case, 1586 02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:46,320 it I know it says here that this serves no public benefit. This is a really 1587 02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:51,040 really narrow road and it's in um and that house burnt down. So should, God 1588 02:00:49,119 --> 02:00:55,360 forbid, it should happen again and you need to get a fire engine up there or 1589 02:00:52,719 --> 02:01:02,159 something. I mean I it just seems at some point in the future, you may need 1590 02:00:58,480 --> 02:01:06,480 to widen that road. And why are we just handing over like fee 1591 02:01:05,040 --> 02:01:10,560 title? Why are we why are we just gifting it over whereas or even if they 1592 02:01:08,719 --> 02:01:14,719 there's a value charge to it? I don't know what's going to happen with what 1593 02:01:11,760 --> 02:01:19,840 the city council decides as opposed to just having some kind of short-term 1594 02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:24,560 encroachment um or something which at some point 1595 02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:27,840 could be reversed. If this was in a different part of the 1596 02:01:26,239 --> 02:01:31,760 city, I think it would be less of a concern. But given it's such a narrow 1597 02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:36,159 road in a really fireprone part of the city, given that's why we're here 1598 02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:40,960 because of fire, that was my thought. So where it said it serves no public 1599 02:01:37,679 --> 02:01:48,000 benefit, I sort of that's where I had I I struggled with 1600 02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:51,760 um and I know we we don't comment on any value on this. That's a city council 1601 02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:55,679 thing, right? But it seems like 3,000 square feet. not even about 1602 02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:59,280 » that, you know, because it's not really within the purview tonight. And that's 1603 02:01:57,440 --> 02:02:02,800 something that the council would discuss when they go through that uh vacation 1604 02:02:01,599 --> 02:02:07,199 process >> and um there's a very specific process 1605 02:02:05,360 --> 02:02:12,159 under state law and what that involves. So I'm I'm sure they'll have that 1606 02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:18,480 discussion when the time comes. >> But um you know you are certainly within 1607 02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:21,599 your purview to to make a finding differently but 1608 02:02:20,239 --> 02:02:24,159 » or make a comment on this >> criminality. This is not something 1609 02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:28,400 that's >> but it's a difference between giving up 1610 02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:30,800 the actual ownership to just doing an encroachment. 1611 02:02:29,599 --> 02:02:32,480 » Is there any reason why there's not something 1612 02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:37,599 » there there is a reason why they're doing this process? Um and it it's my 1613 02:02:36,000 --> 02:02:42,719 understanding that they've exhausted all avenues and that was not one of the 1614 02:02:39,360 --> 02:02:48,480 available options. Um to have a private property in the public rightway is has 1615 02:02:45,760 --> 02:02:52,560 its own set of problems. So >> do you know what what were the other 1616 02:02:49,920 --> 02:02:56,239 avenues? I mean I I won't go there but let me just ask this. We're we're not 1617 02:02:54,239 --> 02:03:02,320 really throwing that in here because it's not really 1618 02:02:57,520 --> 02:03:09,760 » we when we say um make a finding that that this is a private property on 1619 02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:15,920 public land that is um 1620 02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:20,719 sorry the exact language here um is has has been maintained by these 1621 02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:25,280 adjacent owners by the adjacent property. I don't think that would 1622 02:03:22,239 --> 02:03:29,199 change in the the the abatement process or the findings or the council's 1623 02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:33,520 decision-making path. It we're just simply looking at the general plan as it 1624 02:03:31,360 --> 02:03:37,760 applies to the vacation of a right >> portion of the public right away. 1625 02:03:35,199 --> 02:03:41,760 » We have to make a finding that this property, this piece of parcel has 1626 02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:46,639 served no public benefit. >> Uh no, that would be the city council's 1627 02:03:44,320 --> 02:03:51,520 position process. This is the finding that it's 1628 02:03:49,199 --> 02:03:54,880 in conformance with the large per general plan. 1629 02:03:52,560 --> 02:03:58,239 » Yeah. But says that such areas serve no public benefit. 1630 02:03:56,239 --> 02:04:02,800 » Um what the general plan says. >> Yes, it does say that. Yes. And you 1631 02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:05,920 could I mean if you disagree with that, you could make that statement and say 1632 02:04:04,400 --> 02:04:13,280 that you feel it provides a public benefit. Um but in its current situation 1633 02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:18,800 having the path that you just described would uh present a liability to the city 1634 02:04:15,840 --> 02:04:25,760 and that is why they can't just create an easement for a private structure. 1635 02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:28,639 » So if they if if we say like no perview you could certainly 1636 02:04:27,360 --> 02:04:31,440 » the next step would be tear down the garage and rebuild it on their own 1637 02:04:29,920 --> 02:04:37,520 property or >> um possibly. I mean again public works 1638 02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:41,280 has agreed to go to bring this to council and go down that path but it is 1639 02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:45,280 within the purview of the the planning commission to find otherwise if they 1640 02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:50,480 feel that if you feel that this does serve uh this portion of rightway does 1641 02:04:48,080 --> 02:04:55,360 serve a public benefit as you said you know concerns about fire access and 1642 02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:59,119 width um you know that is certainly within your purview tonight. 1643 02:04:58,480 --> 02:05:01,840 Uh >> I mean you talked about an easement. I 1644 02:05:00,560 --> 02:05:04,880 was talking about encroachment. That's the way I've seen it. 1645 02:05:02,639 --> 02:05:09,199 » I'm sorry. Well, encroachment or it would require an easement as well. I 1646 02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:13,119 mean if you wanted to allow someone to have private structures in public 1647 02:05:11,360 --> 02:05:17,280 property as an encroachment, it does necessitate creation. 1648 02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:22,880 » I feel like I see that a lot in marine because bits of houses and bits of like 1649 02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:26,560 front yards and fences always on flights away and then you just get an 1650 02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:33,199 encroachment. It it's my understanding that because it's a a you know a garage 1651 02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:37,599 and it's a private garage it would present um some some degree of 1652 02:05:35,679 --> 02:05:40,159 liability. There was a reasoning behind this process 1653 02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:43,119 » liability. >> You know it's a three-part finding. 1654 02:05:41,599 --> 02:05:48,400 There's there's the no public benefit. There's also presents a liability to the 1655 02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:52,159 city and is better maintained by the adjacent property owners. Do we have 1656 02:05:50,239 --> 02:05:56,960 anything? Do we have know anything about like how they are they going to are they 1657 02:05:55,520 --> 02:06:00,159 maintaining this garage? How are they maintaining it? Is it a fire hazard? 1658 02:05:58,800 --> 02:06:04,159 » They've assumed that this was their p their own garage for you know longer 1659 02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:07,679 than we we didn't know about. >> So it was probably built the same time 1660 02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:09,679 at the house burn the house that burned down was built. 1661 02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:12,639 » Yeah. I mean we the city really this wasn't even on our radar. We just 1662 02:06:11,119 --> 02:06:16,639 assumed that this was private property until we looked at the house fire hazard 1663 02:06:15,119 --> 02:06:19,760 as the house was. >> It could what? just as much of a fire 1664 02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:23,440 hazard. >> Well, it did survive. It didn't It was 1665 02:06:21,440 --> 02:06:26,000 not affected by the fire, obviously. So, >> yeah. No, the house is way up the hill. 1666 02:06:25,119 --> 02:06:29,840 I saw that. >> Yeah. But again, this wasn't on our 1667 02:06:28,320 --> 02:06:33,119 radar. We did not know that this condition existed and it only came to 1668 02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:38,800 light when they came in for building permits and had a um a survey done that 1669 02:06:35,840 --> 02:06:43,079 showed otherwise. And so, um that's how this process was kicked off. 1670 02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:48,000 » Right. Well, >> at at a certain point was will the fire 1671 02:06:46,079 --> 02:06:50,560 department be consulted on this? >> Yes. 1672 02:06:48,639 --> 02:06:57,280 » When what stage does that happen? >> Um, if they have not already, they they 1673 02:06:53,520 --> 02:07:01,679 absolutely will very soon. I cannot say whether or not they have yet already, 1674 02:06:59,119 --> 02:07:06,320 but yes, that is also required as a part of the the formal vacation process. 1675 02:07:04,639 --> 02:07:10,719 » Okay. >> Which we have not begun yet. So, 1676 02:07:09,679 --> 02:07:13,119 » can we make a motion? >> Sure. Make a motion. 1677 02:07:11,679 --> 02:07:17,360 » No, I'm not going to make it. Oh, you have to take public comments. 1678 02:07:15,360 --> 02:07:20,320 » Oh, public comments. Public comments on this issue. No, not on Zoom. 1679 02:07:19,199 --> 02:07:21,199 » What about on Zoom? >> No, 1680 02:07:20,639 --> 02:07:25,920 » I'm kidding. >> Would somebody like 1681 02:07:23,520 --> 02:07:30,840 you want to make a motion? >> Go ahead. 1682 02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:30,840 » I'm 1683 02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:40,800 Oh, I don't want to make a because I'm going to 1684 02:07:39,119 --> 02:07:43,760 Can I make a motion and then not agree to it? 1685 02:07:42,320 --> 02:07:45,679 I don't >> Maybe you can't. 1686 02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:49,760 » No, you cannot. >> No, I'm not going to make the motion. 1687 02:07:47,599 --> 02:07:52,960 » Anyone ask? I'm sorry. >> I make a motion. I don't know. 1688 02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:55,199 » Trying to be helpful. >> All right. Well, 1689 02:07:53,840 --> 02:07:58,719 » you could you can make a motion to not adopt the resolution, though, right? 1690 02:07:57,040 --> 02:08:01,360 » I make a motion that we not adopt the resolution. 1691 02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:05,920 » Certainly make a motion to not adopt the resolution or to deny a resolution 1692 02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:08,079 » or the find that the findings cannot be made. 1693 02:08:06,560 --> 02:08:11,520 » Yeah. Or you can make a motion that differs from what the resolution states. 1694 02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:16,560 » That is the thing. We don't know what the I don't without I don't know what 1695 02:08:14,480 --> 02:08:20,480 the alternative is. Like I don't know what the impact now you're saying 1696 02:08:17,920 --> 02:08:23,199 there's a liability on the city if >> that's what that's my understanding. I 1697 02:08:21,840 --> 02:08:28,159 mean obviously because there's a private garage being used in city rightway that 1698 02:08:25,119 --> 02:08:34,320 is that is inherently liability but >> but it's like it I you know 1699 02:08:32,159 --> 02:08:39,119 in the last case this happened it was like a water a path of water remember 1700 02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:41,840 that one and actually was some liability there and I could see things going wrong 1701 02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:46,480 and I could see why we didn't want to maintain that and keep it clear. 1702 02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:50,400 » This one I'm I'm struggling with more. I mean, if there's 1703 02:08:48,719 --> 02:08:53,199 more information that you see, you can certainly come back with that. 1704 02:08:51,679 --> 02:08:58,800 » Yes. So, here's then what I would say is, is it possible, please, to see if we 1705 02:08:56,639 --> 02:09:03,520 could get an encroachment instead? And if there's a reason, well, let us know 1706 02:09:00,719 --> 02:09:06,000 if if the encroachment path is a is a feasibility. 1707 02:09:04,239 --> 02:09:08,880 » We certainly can have I mean, this is a this is an item that we're doing on 1708 02:09:07,199 --> 02:09:12,560 behalf of public works. We can certainly follow up with them and uh come back at 1709 02:09:11,360 --> 02:09:14,560 a future meeting. >> Okay. 1710 02:09:13,119 --> 02:09:17,280 » And if you could let us know if the fire department has weighed in. 1711 02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:19,360 » Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, what they've come. 1712 02:09:17,520 --> 02:09:22,880 » So, if you wanted that sounds like it, from what I'm hearing a potential motion 1713 02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:27,520 for a continuation. >> Yes, let's do that. I'm going to make as 1714 02:09:25,119 --> 02:09:31,760 chairman. Can I make a motion? Yes. I I I would like to make a motion to 1715 02:09:28,880 --> 02:09:35,920 continue this item uh pending further reports from the fire department and and 1716 02:09:34,159 --> 02:09:37,040 potentially the attorney. Um what's that? 1717 02:09:36,239 --> 02:09:43,040 » Public works. >> Public works regarding u safety issues 1718 02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:48,639 uh and rightway issues >> and altered. Yeah. Whether we can do it 1719 02:09:44,719 --> 02:09:51,760 in Okay. Second >> roll call. 1720 02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:54,159 » Sure. >> Uh, Commissioner Zapar, 1721 02:09:53,599 --> 02:09:56,000 » yes. >> Commissioner Kingdale, 1722 02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:57,199 » yes. >> Commissioner Chalmer's, 1723 02:09:56,960 --> 02:09:58,560 » yes. >> And Chair Swisser, 1724 02:09:58,159 --> 02:10:02,719 » yes. >> Okay. Motion, four yeses, zero nos, and 1725 02:10:01,440 --> 02:10:07,360 one. >> That's good. 1726 02:10:05,119 --> 02:10:10,320 » Well, I understand why they I understand why they want to, but yeah, you're 1727 02:10:08,719 --> 02:10:15,280 right. It's it's it's a safety issue that needs to be. Okay. Next item five, 1728 02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:19,599 business items. uh to approve the August 11th, 2026 planning commission meeting 1729 02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:23,840 minutes. Uh this was the meeting in which we did discuss the one larks per 1730 02:10:22,320 --> 02:10:29,760 plaza. Is that correct? >> If it's helpful at all, there was a um 1731 02:10:27,280 --> 02:10:33,679 an individual that spoke that I saw you didn't have a last name and I have the 1732 02:10:31,199 --> 02:10:38,960 last name for you. If you want, it's Jill Marte. M A R T A 1733 02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:42,760 Y. The second one down. 1734 02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:49,000 I know that one, but I didn't know the others. 1735 02:10:46,000 --> 02:10:49,000 » Okay. 1736 02:10:49,440 --> 02:10:55,440 » Otherwise, I can make a motion to approve the minutes from August 11, 1737 02:10:54,000 --> 02:11:00,560 2026. >> Okay. Second. 1738 02:10:58,320 --> 02:11:04,000 » Yes. Oh, sorry. I jumped it. >> Sure. 1739 02:11:01,360 --> 02:11:05,119 » Let's just do by acclamation. >> I 1740 02:11:04,560 --> 02:11:08,880 » I >> I 1741 02:11:06,159 --> 02:11:14,480 » Okay. All right. Uh are there any planning commissioner reports? I I need 1742 02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:17,280 to add one item that I received um in the middle of the hearing from our 1743 02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:21,000 public works director. >> You want to throw that up there? 1744 02:11:21,040 --> 02:11:25,920 » Um >> you're adding it to the agenda. 1745 02:11:23,920 --> 02:11:30,159 » No, I was going to I was going to provide this during the um community 1746 02:11:28,639 --> 02:11:34,639 development director's report, but I wasn't able to until and I just received 1747 02:11:32,239 --> 02:11:39,840 this um from our public works director in the middle of the hearing. So, uh, I 1748 02:11:37,920 --> 02:11:43,040 just want to announce that there we, you know, one of the items, remember the 1749 02:11:41,360 --> 02:11:46,880 last time we voted on a general plan conformity for the capital improvement 1750 02:11:45,360 --> 02:11:53,280 projects, um, one of those capital improvement projects was the Magnolia 1751 02:11:49,360 --> 02:11:57,199 Avenue corridor study. Um, and the, uh, Magn and I would just want to announce 1752 02:11:54,800 --> 02:12:01,760 that the Magnolia Avenue corridor study uh, will be having a community input 1753 02:11:59,199 --> 02:12:06,639 workshop on Tuesday, October 6 from 6:00 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. at the library. I just 1754 02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:09,920 wanted to let you all know and make that add that to my u list of announcements. 1755 02:12:08,639 --> 02:12:10,800 You're certainly welcome to attend that if you wish. 1756 02:12:10,400 --> 02:12:15,599 » Great. >> Where would the southern city limit? 1757 02:12:13,599 --> 02:12:19,520 » Um that would be the stretch of Magnolia going down to the southern city limits 1758 02:12:17,440 --> 02:12:23,840 which would be court of Madera's uh bound the boundary of Madara. 1759 02:12:21,679 --> 02:12:27,280 » Yes, Magnolia does >> extend. 1760 02:12:25,840 --> 02:12:30,639 » So I just wanted to add that. I'm sorry to interrupt your your item. 1761 02:12:28,719 --> 02:12:34,560 » Great. Thank you for adding that. All right. Uh the next item on the agenda is 1762 02:12:33,520 --> 02:12:36,880 adjournment. >> We had no commissioner reports. 1763 02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:41,760 » No, there was no commission. >> And when the next meeting is 1764 02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:45,840 » be October 13th >> October 13. 1765 02:12:43,440 --> 02:12:49,599 » Uh yeah. So the so this this uh the agenda is incorrect. It says the next 1766 02:12:47,599 --> 02:12:53,599 regular committee is on September. >> No, this is Yeah. 1767 02:12:50,719 --> 02:12:56,480 » No, this that's that's wrong. >> Rise double header. 1768 02:12:54,880 --> 02:13:01,040 » And now the next one starts. >> This is Groundhog Day. The next 1769 02:12:59,199 --> 02:13:02,800 commission. It's It's not going to be September. It's gonna be October what 1770 02:13:02,400 --> 02:13:05,119 now? >> October 13th. 1771 02:13:03,920 --> 02:13:08,239 » 13th. Okay. >> And there's no planned interlude 1772 02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:12,960 meeting, right? No. No. Okay. Great. >> And reminder uh of the city council 1773 02:13:11,040 --> 02:13:15,199 meeting regarding one larks plaza is the 16th. 1774 02:13:13,520 --> 02:13:18,800 » It would be Yes. It' be this coming Wednesday the 16th. 1775 02:13:17,040 --> 02:13:20,800 » Next Wednesday the 16th. >> Yes. Not tomorrow. Sorry. A week from 1776 02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:24,960 tomorrow. >> A week from tomorrow is the 16th at the 1777 02:13:23,440 --> 02:13:29,679 conference conference center >> 395. 1778 02:13:26,800 --> 02:13:33,679 » Very good. So motion for adjournment. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. 1779 02:13:31,599 --> 02:13:36,239 » All right. By acclamation, I >> I 1780 02:13:34,560 --> 02:13:39,239 » All right. Excellent. Thank you everybody.