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We would like to open tonight's panel council work session. Our first item for discussion is the fiscal year

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2021 budget work session.

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It is the correct. It's your ask for additional time? Yes, ma'am. How much time do

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you anticipate to? I'm right about seven minutes, but if you give me ten, I'll try my best to return three

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of them to you. And then Amy would like ten minutes. Okay, this everybody. Okay, if we increase it by 20 minutes.

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Okay,

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good evening Madam Mayor members of Council tonight as the Mayor mentioned we're here for our first fiscal year 2028 budget work session.

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A number of topics on the agenda tonight include the preliminary results for fiscal year 2026 much the same conversation that we had a few weeks ago.

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Also just to recap of how we use the fiscal year 26 data center computer equipment tax revenue followed by a recap of the 27 adopted budget and a brief outlook for

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fiscal year 2028.

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Once we've gone through that, we'll open it up for a brief Q&A

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to the extent that you're interested in that

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and then Amy will present on the Utilities Fund Outlook.

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So again, diving into fiscal year 2026 preliminary

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unordinated results.

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Just reminder that the fiscal year 26 adopted budget

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did have several programed uses of reserves.

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This is common.

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And typically, we outperform and do not need

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to use those reserves.

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Similarly, this year, those preliminary

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results do indicate that we will be unlikely to use those reserves that we anticipated in the budget.

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That's a result of better revenue performance as we talked about a few weeks ago, as well as expenditure savings on the other side of the equation.

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This slide just summarizes the actions you've taken to date as it relates to the data center computer equipment tax revenue.

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So you've received $12.1 million net between fiscal 25 and 26.

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You've programmed that for a number of different things,

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including stormwater operations,

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the purchase of rock spring farm,

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pavement management, and for your boards and commissions.

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You've then put approximately $5.9 million

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into the data center computer equipment tax reserve.

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And that's really just to be used for future priorities as you deem fit.

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Turning into the fiscal $27 budget.

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Again, that budgeted use of reserves for fiscal $27.

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That was $8.6 million.

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That included $3.7 million of the debt service reserve.

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$1.3 million of unassigned fund dollars for one-time uses.

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About $3 million of data center computer equipment taxes from prior years.

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Again, that was for the pavement as well as storm water.

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And then about $0.6 million for the increment weather reserve.

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The FY27 budget also included a number of enhancements, including the police lieutenant and police co-responder, as well as an assistant town manager for labor relations.

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It also included updates to the subdivision and land development regulations, as well as the number of other studies and minor projects.

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And then, as again, I mentioned a few minutes ago, the additional money for the pavement management program.

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Look for fiscal year 2028. We do want to highlight that there is a weaker economic outlook for

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in terms of that.

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loud and county gross county product for 26 to 28 based on the forecast that loud and county's budget

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office presented to the Board of Supervisors back in July. Last year, at this time, that forecast

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was about 4% annual growth for 26 to 27. The current forecast for the next three years is for annual

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to be between 2.8 and 3.4 percent. In contrast, 2024, the growth was 4.1 percent, and then

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in 2025, it was just 2.5 percent. You can also see from the chart that increasing inflationary

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impacts that really started around March of 2026.

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On the employment side, we did see declining

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levels of employment during 2025. That's the most recent year of data available. It decreased

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is 0.9%, which left 20, 25 levels, which are shown in these blue bars here, which look

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kind of black up there, actually lower than the 20, 23 levels.

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So a fewer number of people employed during 20, 25 than in 24.

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On the other side, that orange line represents the unemployment rate, and you can see that

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increasing since post-COVID timeframes.

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As of July of 2020, that's a typo from the 2020-26, the unemployment rate for Latin was 3.6%.

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The state was just above us at 3.7% and the national unemployment rate was 4.1%.

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Turning to the housing market, the slide is intended to just be a snapshot in time.

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We did a similar snapshot last year comparing August to August.

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So this slide just compares August of 26 sales data to August of 25.

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You can see the number of active listings increased 18% going from 771 listings to just over 900.

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That's likely being driven by the fact that there are fewer units sold.

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So number of units sold decreased 17% going from 520 down to 432.

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Along with that declining number of homes sold, we're also seeing a slowing in the growth of the average sales price.

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So while it's still higher than it was in August of 2025,

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it's not at the same pace that we've seen it

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for the past several fiscal years.

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This year August August sales prices are only up 1%.

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In terms of the days on the market,

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that's been pretty stable, 24 days compared to 23 days last year.

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Taking that in terms of the towns revenue outlook for 20, 28,

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non property taxes account for 38%

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of the current year's general fund budget.

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better than anticipated results for 26 due lend-positive science towards FY28 budget development.

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However, inflation and fuel prices really could start to suppress consumer spending which would impact those revenues going forward.

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On property taxes, which comprise just under a third of the general fund budget,

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again as I mentioned on the previous slide, slower growth in your residential market,

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which means you're going to have less appreciation in the portfolio, which means less new revenue coming in.

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For fiscal 28th, that growth is going to likely be led by your commercial portfolio of the real estate market,

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which, um, thinking about that data centers in particular, comprised 43% of the January 2026 commercial real estate values.

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So that's really what's probably going to drive your growth going into the next budget year.

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In terms of departmental revenues, those are largely led by program demand, and they typically bring with them

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increased costs of delivering services.

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On the expenditure side, some contractual increases that we know about in our preparing

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for, include the trash and recycling contract.

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We've talked about that for the past several years.

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Stormwater maintenance costs, as well as technology costs, FY28 will represent the second

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year of your collective bargaining agreement with the police department, and we anticipate

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it to bring about another year of increases in health insurance premiums.

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Other operational increases which we all know about from our personal lives include rising

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electricity rates as well as higher than anticipated field prices. We also expect a number

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of departmental requests just based on the historical trend but at this point we don't know

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yet what those are going to be. Looking forward at the budget calendar for the rest of the season

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we anticipate being back here on October 26th to discuss the six year capital improvements program

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We'll also have a budget presentation from the Department of Public Works.

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Then on November 9th we'll come back with a discussion of personal property taxes

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and a budget presentation from the airport.

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And then November 23rd if Council has identified any other types of discussion,

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we can bring those back to you at that time and seek any direction you might have for the fiscal 28th budget.

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On December 8th, we'll be back with a presentation of the 26 audit and then a staff live discussion in January, followed by an outlook from the financial advisor and planning commission beginning their review of your CIP.

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And with that, I soon ready to answer any questions.

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Thank you very much. I appreciate the seven eight minutes.

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You saved us two minutes. I can tell you with what it feels like up here, you're saving money on electricity because it's freezing up here.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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I did have one question on the slide related to 43% of our, you might have to explain it better.

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Commercial, commercial real estate portfolio.

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So, I was under the impression that our, I guess I was under the impression our financial

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impact came from the computer equipment taxes and such, but then commercial real estate

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lies. I didn't feel like data centers can price that much of our commercial portfolio for real estate.

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Is that so? I would say that all are wise. The revenue is definitely on personal property.

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That's why you hear us talk about the computer equipment piece. They still bring in a substantial amount

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of real estate just nowhere in your computer equipment tax.

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Okay, so when we're comparing commercial real estate

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to cross the town completely,

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data centers are 43% of our commercial real estate portfolio.

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They are.

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And we only have like three of them.

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I can't miss, but like three of them really, right?

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Correct, really just one location with data centers.

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Very interesting, okay, thank you.

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Mr. Counties.

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Thank you, Madam Mayor.

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On the non-property text, revenue, where you all are sending us the quarterly updates for

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this current fiscal year, is there any trends we should be looking at in those, especially

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the non-property text?

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You know, that's a great question.

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It's really difficult to say just yet what those trends might look like.

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We're in September, so we've only received, for instance, one month of sales tax revenue,

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we just have the July.

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I will tell you sales tax has been performing very strongly, but that's been pushed again by the

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data center industry county wide. They pay sales tax on the purchase of their computer

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equipment. So we have seen really strong growth there, but it really is being led by that

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market. Meals tax, we've been transient occupancy tax. We've started to see, again, slow-wing

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growth rates, but they're still growing compared to what they were last year. So nothing

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that's flashing right at this point, maybe a little bit of yellow to kind of keep an eye on,

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but nothing major at this point.

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Thank you.

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And then obviously fuel is going to be a major issue for all of us.

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Is there any conversation happening, whether it's between us and Loudon or regionally governments

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of any kind of like bulk purchasing power or anything to try to lower the cost for the town?

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So that's also a great question.

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Most localities do engage cooperative agreements.

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These work is one such community.

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We don't buy fuel just at the pump randomly.

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Do you ride the cooperative contract

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that's issued through the loud and counting public schools?

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So we are taking advantage of those kind of bulk prices

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that you mentioned already.

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Thank you.

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That's just standard.

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Thanks, dumb question first, and notice our staff report, we pay a certain amount for administrative fees.

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Who are those being paid to?

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This staff report administrative.

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Yeah, there's a hundred thousand dollars one year and then a hundred and four thousand dollars the next year.

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I think it's probably referencing the collection fees for the data center money.

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Yes, yes.

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loud and counting, they withhold 1.15% based on the MOU from many years ago.

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Okay, all right, and then, finally, we've been meeting with our legislators because one of

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things we're looking to do is get more of these specific data out of the state and I'm wondering

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to what extent or how difficult it was to arrive at a lot of this data in

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in sifting through county information, as opposed us having

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Leesburg's specific information, if you would find that helpful.

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I would say most of the data I presented to you tonight other than the very specific

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town revenue piece was in fact loud and county data because the town level data doesn't

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exist, it would probably be helpful.

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I did look at the real estate portfolio before we came in here just as an example because

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that's reported at the county level.

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Not, at least on the residential side, which is what we would compare to. Are there some pieces that might have

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Our trends are pretty consistent with that county level

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information.

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So I'm not...

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per valuable yes, but I think as loud and shifts, so does Leesburg when it comes to the revenue. So I'm not sure we'll always

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appreciate more information, but I'm not sure how much detail how much value it would add.

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Okay, well we'll see what the legislature has come to with that. Thanks.

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Anyone else? All right, utilities is going to come up next. Thank you.

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At the end of the meeting, Madam Mayor, Members of Council,

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I'm Amy White, Director of Utilities here to give the Fiscal Year 2028 budget work session for the Utilities Department.

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So the Utilities Fund is approximately $81.5 million for Fiscal Year 27.

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We're in year 3 of the five year rate study that was adopted by town council.

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Operations were just short of $29 million, debt service, $6.3 million.

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Capra Projects is 46.2 million with 2.3 million of that being carp.

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A few highlights over the years related to the Utilities budget is from an operating

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standpoint.

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We've had some additional FTEs since 2025, as well as for 2027 doing some camera and sewer inspections

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of sanitary sewer, as well as evaluating our missutility markings as an external contract.

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I'm a three-hour perspective trying to try and have about $2.5 million at a minimum in order

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to replace our assets.

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And on the capital side we have the nutrient liquid processing project that's in design.

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Solids processing improvement, the bids are due tomorrow.

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We're doing sanitary sewer pump station upgrades and then miscellaneous water and sanitary

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sewer improvements throughout.

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As you can see here over the years, the millions of gallons of water produced.

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You can see in the middle there, COVID, we saw less water being produced, but continuing the same trend over the last three years.

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Number of accounts continue to grow.

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approximately 100 additional accounts each year since 2023.

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And our mouths of sewer with development.

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We continue to accept more mouths of sanitary sewer mains as well as water mains into our public system.

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I'm going to accomplishment standpoint during fiscal year 26 because we're service staff.

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We implemented the in-town building where all out-of-town accounts receive the price of

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in-town.

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They have been billed for four, four, four quarters and that will continue with the county making

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the payment on July 1.

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We also began and received our first reimbursement from Microsoft as you know we have an infrastructure

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agreement with them related to capital projects with them paying their share.

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We've started to see reimbursement from that.

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On the capital side, we've been working on some electrical work at the water pollution plant,

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as well as doing some upgrades at some meter vaults, and the recoding of the sickle

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and tank was completed, and we're in process of painting cartank one in case you've

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not noticed that site over there at product notice.

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And we also, the Environmental Protection Agency, known as the EPA, we did submit the required

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mandated risk and resiliency assessment

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and emergency response plan for the water plan.

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And to dissipate a challenge in opportunities,

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similar to what Tamara was just speaking about,

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related to our aging infrastructure and inflation,

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but we also have recruitment and retention

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for what we are 24-7 operations

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and also finding technical expertise.

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From the aging infrastructure standpoint,

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we are seeing the need for increased sewer cleanings

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with grease and restaurants.

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We also are seeing the trend of that the longevity of our equipment.

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They just don't make it like they used to, so things that used to be 30 years old of a

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life span.

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We're not seeing that in the newer replacements, and then obviously cyber and the technology

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modernization is something on our radar.

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Inflation-wise, it would also are seeing an increase with electricity costs at the plants, and

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then the emergency regulatory requirements at both the state and local level and federal

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level related to lead and PFAS.

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Just want to end here with the fact that fiscal year 2028, which we're developing now, will be year four of the current rate study.

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So our proposal is to start around March of 2027 to find our next rate consultants, select them, and have them doing the analysis.

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Late November of 2027 through April of 2028, and then coming into Council and getting recommendations and approval by fall, so that we're ready for July 1 of 2029, which seems far away, but it is coming.

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And with that we have any questions.

241
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Oh, she did it in your five minutes.

242
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No pressure.

243
00:19:58,850 --> 00:20:04,810
Do you anticipate there would be a time when we will need in the knot too?

244
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Distant future to tremendously update our water systems at the plant.

245
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When you say update and related to capacity, you're just basically leading up for structure.

246
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Basically both. I mean, it's aging. Obviously, we have new requirements that are state requirements.

247
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I'm sure that has an impact on the plant.

248
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But also, as things being built out and more people are requesting water from the town, what

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of the implications of both of those items.

250
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From a capacity standpoint, previously, I think it was that the last meeting we had

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the memo related to the plant capacity analysis and based on the trends and what we had

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related to proposed projects from the zoning side of what's anticipated.

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We do not anticipate or we're not proposing any expansion related to capacity.

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Now, we are looking at, at the wastewater side, from a technology standpoint.

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We are the solids project that the bids are due tomorrow is related to, we're getting

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more solids at the wastewater plant than liquid.

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That's everyone having lower flush volume of toilets and whatnot.

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So again, we're seeing more solids than liquid and the solution to pollution is dilution.

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So the solids project is addressing the more solids and less liquids.

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So we're taking care of addressing any requirements from the state, from that perspective,

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but not looking to do anything from capacity and related to this aging infrastructure.

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That's why again, we recommend the carpe or the 3R as we call it again, making sure we're replacing

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water and sewer lines. We're doing the re-lining of the sanitary sewer, so keeping up with assets at the same time.

264
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I'm certainly enjoyed watching the water tank and I kept wondering, do they actually have to ask?

265
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Do they actually have to walk all the way up there every day and walk the way down?

266
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Really?

267
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You can get them in elevator.

268
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Wow.

269
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Put that in the next CIP.

270
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And then the last person I have for you is,

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It just went out of my mind.

272
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I'll come back to it if I remember.

273
00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:18,290
Anyone else have any questions at this point, Mr. Kerkowski?

274
00:22:19,530 --> 00:22:20,790
Thank you for your presentation.

275
00:22:22,650 --> 00:22:23,950
I'm going to piggyback first off.

276
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:26,910
The mayor's comments, because it kind of just jogged a couple of questions myself.

277
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:32,010
So it's very interesting to issue with the solids.

278
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And so, of course, we're trying to use less water

279
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by having lower volume flushes and all that.

280
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So I understand the dynamic of now you have more solids.

281
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Is that problematic to our system?

282
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Or is it just a, maybe a fine tuning of how we handle things?

283
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Is it causing problems?

284
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:52,990
It's not causing a problem, but that's why we have the project

285
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that's coming up so that it's giving us more capacity

286
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:59,390
in order to treat the solids and eventually

287
00:22:59,390 --> 00:23:05,330
what it creates is our TLC product, which is our fertilizer with the heat dryer. So it's helping

288
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it to move along, getting the moisture and the water out so that the solids can be processed.

289
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So you're kind of artificially injecting water in there to kind of help break everything down a

290
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little bit better. Not necessarily injecting water, but the technology piece of the treatment.

291
00:23:19,030 --> 00:23:23,870
Okay. Sounds like you have a handle. Great. Excuse me.

292
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:30,810
I'm going to ask you a little bit to hypothesize our future.

293
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I realize we're in year four and it's going to be a study that leads to the right changes,

294
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but it sounds like we're creeping up and I just see more increases coming, but understanding

295
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:50,350
how it breaks down between our infrastructure needs, which if maybe just a little bit of background

296
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are we going to be looking at capital like CIP funds for some of these infrastructure change or are

297
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you going to be relying on rate changes to help subsidize those costs that might increase.

298
00:24:02,090 --> 00:24:02,790
Does that make sense?

299
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:08,570
We wouldn't say subsidize, so utility fund is an enterprise fund, so we do have to support

300
00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:15,890
ourselves. So from the subsidy standpoint, obviously we have to if the rate study determines that

301
00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:19,870
over the next five years, this is the revenue that you need,

302
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:21,890
then they'll look at that related to the rates.

303
00:24:22,650 --> 00:24:25,470
So that's part of what the study holistically does.

304
00:24:25,790 --> 00:24:29,330
Okay, but we probably project an increase most likely.

305
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:32,910
Most likely, and even when they did the last rate study,

306
00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:35,470
they even said, here's the five year rate study,

307
00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:37,130
and then they looked at the few years after,

308
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:39,810
and they'll even tell you just to keep up with inflation

309
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and whatnot.

310
00:24:40,510 --> 00:24:41,570
Okay, all right, excellent.

311
00:24:41,650 --> 00:24:42,950
Thank you.

312
00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:43,870
You know, seven questions?

313
00:24:45,130 --> 00:24:51,150
We'll appreciate the updates and we'll be seeing you again soon.

314
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:51,650
I'm sure.

315
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:52,950
Thank you.

316
00:24:57,270 --> 00:24:57,530
All right.

317
00:24:57,610 --> 00:25:03,550
That takes us to our event for the night, which is the zoning ordinance rewrite.

318
00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:20,830
All right, good evening and welcome to the main event.

319
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:29,180
Madam Mayor, members of council, pleasure to see you tonight. We'll be talking about the zoning ordinance rewrite.

320
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:49,340
And this is our continued work session discussion on the draft. And so recall that we've made it through quite a bit so far. We've talked about all the articles in depth. And as we went along, the council peg certain items that they wanted to circle back on and discuss a little bit further.

321
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and so we call that our deep dive list.

322
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And so that's been an attachment in your packet

323
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and every session.

324
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It's grown as we went.

325
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And now it's our time to circle back to that list.

326
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,320
And potentially start to take some

327
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,980
some pulses of the council to see which direction we might

328
00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:08,720
want to head on some of these key topics.

329
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,500
So a matter of structured these slides a little bit

330
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:13,200
differently tonight.

331
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,640
I've got some discussion questions to tee up

332
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,460
and potentially get some votes going

333
00:26:18,460 --> 00:26:21,860
if that pleases you to matter mayor as we go along.

334
00:26:23,180 --> 00:26:25,220
So let's jump right into it.

335
00:26:25,340 --> 00:26:32,860
So tonight, the dive list is primarily focused on Article 2, which is the zoning districts

336
00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:38,020
and dimensional standards as well as the new draft zoning map.

337
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And we had some comments from Councilmember Cummings, wanted to look again at the housing

338
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,420
makes requirements in some of the districts to make sure that we weren't stifling creativity

339
00:26:50,420 --> 00:26:57,120
in the development workplace. Marketplace. Mr. Cummings also wanted to review minimum open space

340
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:03,360
requirements, especially in our more quote-unquote urban areas. And then there was quite a few

341
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:08,660
members of council that just wanted to take a closer look at downtown, items such as mass, scale,

342
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,140
building height, fence height, and parking to make sure that we're protecting one of our most

343
00:27:14,140 --> 00:27:21,260
I have resources. Mayor Burke also wanted to look at the Safeway parcel because it's been

344
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designated mixed use on the map so we'll drill in there and then there are some other

345
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,960
changes of that map that staff wanted to go through with this council because we kind of moved

346
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,580
over the map pretty quickly and our first blush through all of this and so we wanted to circle

347
00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:41,960
back and make sure that staff has got the map correct. All right. So housing mixed requirements,

348
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There are housing mix requirements in your residential medium district and what those are is

349
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:57,080
essentially RM allows single-family homes, doplexes, townhouses and apartments and it's

350
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,060
supposed to be the town's medium density areas.

351
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:08,160
So the housing type mix ensures that at least two housing types are included in any

352
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,260
developments or redevelopments, and this is only for

353
00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:16,320
developments over 24 units, so it doesn't apply across the board.

354
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We did want to make sure that a minimum third or 33% were

355
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,960
attributed to single-family detached, and I think that helps keep the

356
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,920
character of the predominant type of housing that exists in some of

357
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,020
those RM district neighborhoods.

358
00:28:33,540 --> 00:28:35,220
There's also a block-face rule.

359
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This is a tool to ensure there's consistency along one particular block and you don't have townhouses up against a single family up against multi-family.

360
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So that's one instance of a housing mix requirement.

361
00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:58,000
The others are percentages, and those are in the proposed mixed use, innovation center, and crescent district activity center districts.

362
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:05,420
and it's pretty straightforward, it's a required mix of residential to non-residential or mixed use.

363
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:14,080
And staff and the commission thought these mixed these use mix requirements were important to achieve the town plan,

364
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:22,520
to essentially ensure that we're getting a balance between office, commercial and residential uses in some of these areas.

365
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:30,580
And the council can always modify the use mix requirements you see on the screen here in the MU and IC districts be a legislative approval.

366
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:39,420
So, as proposed in the mixed use district minimum gross floor area needs to be 30% residential.

367
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:52,500
So it could go up to a max of 70% non-residential mixed use or a minimum gross floor area of 30% non-residential mixed use which could go up to a max gross floor area.

368
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,700
We have 70% residential, so quite a bit of flexibility there.

369
00:29:57,380 --> 00:30:00,520
I see district minimum gross flow area zero.

370
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,340
Non-residential uses. So, could see a project 100% non-residential in mixed use in the IC, or minimum

371
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,800
The IC is really geared towards more employment uses.

372
00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:14,240
gross for areas 60% non-res, 40% residential. So, that keeps that employment focus in the

373
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:20,280
uses in IC. And then, finally, in your Crescent District Activity Center District, you've

374
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:27,560
got minimum gross for area residential, 30% which would then mean 65% non-res mixed use. And that

375
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,460
5% minimum civic. We thought that was important in those activity nodes in the crescent district.

376
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Or you could see minimum 25% non-resum mixed use and up to 70% residential in the CDAC.

377
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:48,840
So with that, here's our first question and Madam Mayor, I'll leave a two whether you're ready to go to the question or you'd like to discuss.

378
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:54,500
I'd like to see if anybody has any questions on this. Mr. Cummings.

379
00:30:54,500 --> 00:31:01,380
I thank you. James, I want to just to, so the idea of the rewriting of the zoning ordinance

380
00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:08,440
was to create, you know, streamline, but also tighten things up as we've moved forward in history.

381
00:31:09,420 --> 00:31:14,740
Or, you know, my concern is that we're doing this zoning ordinance rewriting now. It probably won't be

382
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:21,840
we won't be back here again for probably 15 or 20 years. I would imagine minus some, some one-off zoning

383
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,960
reason, or I'm sorry, zoning an ordinance amendments,

384
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,600
my concern with some of the housing

385
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:37,160
misrequirements are that there maybe looked at through today's lens of what's marketable,

386
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:43,160
but in 10, 15, 20 years we don't know what the needs are going to be, and so I'm just concerned,

387
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:50,380
today these look fine, but it's the future that I've concerned about with providing some flexibility

388
00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:56,280
for for changing times. So you mentioned there's can you just tell me what the

389
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,820
process is for someone to amend maybe some of these housing mix requirements?

390
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,900
Certainly. In the draft zoning on this rewrite we do have the ability for the

391
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:16,260
council to amend the use mix ratios and we have it by I believe it's by minor

392
00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:17,220
special exception.

393
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:22,610
Thank you,

394
00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:34,140
out on this, the mix. This 5% civic is what makes up the difference

395
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:37,500
because you can get only 95% with the other two. Okay, correct.

396
00:32:37,620 --> 00:32:38,940
Just in the CDAC.

397
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:49,640
Well, I have to say, going into this, I agree with staff's recommendation in the Plain

398
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:58,620
commission as, you know, Mr. Cummings said we're looking at now, but I also think we're

399
00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:04,780
looking to our history and what the town looks like now, what do we want it to look

400
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:10,980
like in the future, and having some flexibility, I think it's already in there.

401
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,620
I think you

402
00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:24,250
they're not really changes but they're they're they're they're

403
00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:31,460
tweaks. So how do do you want us to take a head nod vote on these tonight

404
00:33:31,460 --> 00:33:37,060
with that be helpful if we did. All right. Oh Mr. Kerkowski. Sorry just a

405
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:41,780
quick clarification in our staff packet. It says the Council can always

406
00:33:41,780 --> 00:33:46,040
modify the mixed use requirements for MU and IC districts via legislative

407
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:53,300
approval, but does not mention Crescent District? Is that just Senate mission? Or because it has

408
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:57,620
its own plan? Crescent District Activity Center, they're going to have to rezone into that

409
00:33:57,620 --> 00:34:02,460
anyways. Okay, so the council will have an opportunity to look at that, use mix and potentially

410
00:34:02,460 --> 00:34:07,640
modify at that time. That makes sense. Thank you. All right, are there four people that are,

411
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,960
I guess we're doing two, the support staff keeping the housing mix requirements

412
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:25,040
in the RM district and support keeping the use mix requirements of the MCIC CDAD districts.

413
00:34:25,700 --> 00:34:27,020
Do you have four people that support those?

414
00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:30,920
All right.

415
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,940
So that goes forward.

416
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:33,740
Great.

417
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,620
Thank you very much.

418
00:34:35,060 --> 00:34:35,180
Okay.

419
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:36,280
You want to quit now?

420
00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:38,480
Your hand.

421
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,760
You back in a couple weeks.

422
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:42,900
All right.

423
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:43,980
The next topic.

424
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:55,120
So, this is about minimum community amenities and open space and the thought here was in every zoning district.

425
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:04,640
We have a required minimum community amenities and open space and it's expressed as a percentage of lot area.

426
00:35:00,590 --> 00:35:17,450
And you'll notice in the residential districts, it's 10% except for residential urban, where it pushes up to 15% in the non-residential districts, 20% in your commercial neighborhood, commercial suburban, 10% in the industrial research.

427
00:35:18,270 --> 00:35:22,130
And the mixed use district, that's 25%

428
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:24,190
community amenities and open space, downtown,

429
00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:28,190
zero percent because it's already rich with amenities

430
00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:32,730
and we often find folks challenged with even coming up

431
00:35:32,730 --> 00:35:36,050
with some space on those small lots for community amenities

432
00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:39,070
and open space, so no minimum requirement there.

433
00:35:39,550 --> 00:35:43,950
25% in innovation center and then 25% in the

434
00:35:43,950 --> 00:35:45,630
Congress and District Commercial Court, or

435
00:35:45,630 --> 00:35:47,350
Congress and District Residential Neighborhood,

436
00:35:47,970 --> 00:35:50,770
10% in the CDAC, but there's also a requirement

437
00:35:50,770 --> 00:35:54,150
for every CDAC development to provide a half acre

438
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:58,470
park or civic space in addition to the minimum community

439
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:59,010
amenities.

440
00:36:00,210 --> 00:36:01,770
And why does staff think this is important?

441
00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:06,050
One, it quantifies what the town is looking for.

442
00:36:06,570 --> 00:36:11,670
Two, it provides and reinforces our support

443
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:15,150
in our town plan for open spaces and redevelopment areas,

444
00:36:15,850 --> 00:36:17,310
preserving ecological landscapes,

445
00:36:17,570 --> 00:36:20,530
as community assets, reinforcing pedestrian-oriented

446
00:36:20,530 --> 00:36:22,350
and amenity-rich design.

447
00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:26,570
It also helps with integrating amenities

448
00:36:26,570 --> 00:36:27,670
and open space to protect

449
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:29,570
livability, quality of life, et cetera.

450
00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:34,190
So, staff is comfortable with these minimum percentages.

451
00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:37,130
We've looked at the various districts.

452
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:41,230
We've also included quite a few different items

453
00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:46,590
that can count as community amenities in open space, and those are listed in a separate section

454
00:36:46,590 --> 00:36:52,770
of zoning ordinance, but just to give you a flavor enhanced parking lot landscaping, stormwater

455
00:36:52,770 --> 00:36:57,770
management, green roofs, natural areas, greenways, community gardens, parks, playgrounds,

456
00:36:57,850 --> 00:37:03,290
plazas, recreation areas, and other facilities all can count towards this percentage.

457
00:37:04,430 --> 00:37:09,410
And these requirements do not apply to developments that include 10 or fewer drilling units

458
00:37:09,410 --> 00:37:11,610
or are located in the downtown district.

459
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:15,850
So staff is recommending we keep it as is.

460
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:18,660
Any questions on this one?

461
00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:21,410
Yeah.

462
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:26,350
Just for public perception, and arriving at these numbers,

463
00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:29,350
these are based on other jurisdictions

464
00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:33,050
or good planning manuals, what have you,

465
00:37:33,050 --> 00:37:35,230
how do we arrive at these various numbers?

466
00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:38,610
Also, I guess you're taking into account economic modeling

467
00:37:38,610 --> 00:37:40,590
in terms of what will actually work

468
00:37:40,590 --> 00:37:43,310
for a particular development type.

469
00:37:44,590 --> 00:37:47,530
Yeah, we definitely did our research of other jurisdictions.

470
00:37:48,490 --> 00:37:51,670
We at the commission level, we even took these

471
00:37:52,190 --> 00:37:54,330
dimensional standards along with others

472
00:37:54,330 --> 00:37:57,930
and did some scenarios based on existing lots

473
00:37:57,930 --> 00:38:02,010
to make sure that we weren't creating too much

474
00:38:02,010 --> 00:38:04,290
of a constraint on potential development

475
00:38:04,290 --> 00:38:05,590
or redevelopment yield.

476
00:38:05,590 --> 00:38:14,690
And then I think the other piece is, in some of these districts, we did consolidate density.

477
00:38:14,930 --> 00:38:17,770
We talked about that earlier in our work session process.

478
00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:23,110
So that resulted in an increase in a little bit of density in some of the districts.

479
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:27,990
We wanted to counterbalance that density with making sure that we had appropriate amenities

480
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:30,850
and open space for folks that might live there in the future.

481
00:38:30,850 --> 00:38:40,270
And just to refresh everyone's memory, we also determined that the grass strip between the sidewalk and the street itself does not count.

482
00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:50,050
Correct, sir. Yeah, we are wholly focused on usable open space and not those leftover fingers in the parking lots.

483
00:38:53,170 --> 00:39:00,410
So can you explain to me the civics space, like would a swimming pool be considered a civics space?

484
00:39:01,390 --> 00:39:07,830
No, we've actually defined civics space in Crescent District Activity Center as like a larger

485
00:39:07,830 --> 00:39:16,830
plaza or a place for the public to gather a square perhaps, but not necessarily like a pool.

486
00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:24,830
And then would rooftop terraces be considered a amenity or open space?

487
00:39:26,830 --> 00:39:28,570
Mr. Watkins, what do you think about that one?

488
00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:31,610
Green roofs is part of it.

489
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:37,080
From the green roof standpoint, yes, otherwise now.

490
00:39:39,850 --> 00:39:42,490
Can I ask, what's the reasoning behind a green roof?

491
00:39:43,830 --> 00:39:46,950
Which, in my understanding, you can't go on to a green roof.

492
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:54,090
It's there for more environmental and an impact versus a rooftop terrace, which in a lot of

493
00:39:54,090 --> 00:39:59,170
built, you know, a lot of builders, town homes, that's part of the amenities that they're

494
00:39:59,170 --> 00:40:01,470
offering to their homeowners.

495
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:11,320
It's more towards the open space side of the equation rather than the community amenities side, where you're having some green infrastructure that helps with various environmental purposes.

496
00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:04,790
Yeah, I would think that the green roofs.

497
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:23,400
So, let me make sure I want to make sure I heard that correctly. So, the green, the roofs, if they're green space, that's for open space.

498
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:32,920
So the idea of open space is, you know, you're preserving natural environment, so perhaps

499
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:39,060
green roof you're adding more plants and trees into the mix, so we've included that.

500
00:40:39,060 --> 00:40:42,760
We could take a look at that section of the rewrite if you'd like, in the community amenities

501
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:43,440
in open space.

502
00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:51,140
I guess I just question, a green roof as an open space in a rooftop terrace is not an open

503
00:40:51,140 --> 00:40:51,500
space.

504
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:56,620
I don't see the, I don't see the logic behind that.

505
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,260
Okay, yep, if we can go to the rewrite real quick,

506
00:41:00,340 --> 00:41:04,310
we can dive in a little bit further.

507
00:41:05,790 --> 00:41:06,170
Here we

508
00:41:22,420 --> 00:41:22,500
go.

509
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:24,040
Okay, so these are the community venues

510
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,280
in open space standards.

511
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,000
And green roof is under the first category here.

512
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,200
So it's considered sight improvements,

513
00:41:42,540 --> 00:41:44,720
so maybe I misspoke when I said open space,

514
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,140
But it's a roof or structure that's partially

515
00:41:47,140 --> 00:41:49,100
you're completely covered with vegetated landscape.

516
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,920
Vegetation on the green roof is planting

517
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:58,850
and a growing substrate and an example shown in the photo there.

518
00:41:59,510 --> 00:42:02,590
So it's more of a green infrastructure than an open space

519
00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:03,310
of my apologies.

520
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,800
I have a question on, let's see, I'm trying to find.

521
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:20,760
in table, under table A-1-1, the general design requirements.

522
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,140
So it would be C9, and as the mayor pointed out,

523
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,260
there's no page number I can send you to, so I apologize.

524
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:31,940
It talks about centralized amenity and open space.

525
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,540
In the RM residential medium and RU residential

526
00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:38,040
urban zoning districts, the required amenity and open space

527
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,440
shall be centralized and consolidated so that no lot is greater

528
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:50,020
in 1,320 feet from such a manity and open space. I was just curious how we came to a hunt 1,320

529
00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:59,120
feet. I'm just curious where we are. So on the screen here we're on number 10 and this is in section

530
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:03,780
171, 1320 linear feet is one quarter mile.

531
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,600
Is that based on what most people will walk to?

532
00:43:13,220 --> 00:43:13,800
Yes.

533
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,600
Even I'll walk farther than that. Okay.

534
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,020
So the bigger point that I wanted to bring

535
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:37,160
up in the open space and community amenities. So if you could go back to the outline that

536
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,900
you had that shows the percentages for each of the districts. Sure.

537
00:43:44,170 --> 00:43:45,810
I have concern in the

538
00:43:45,810 --> 00:43:52,110
President District, with 25% community amenities and open space.

539
00:43:52,610 --> 00:43:53,410
Thank you.

540
00:43:53,690 --> 00:43:59,690
I believe the crescent district should be treated as just like our downtown, where the amenities

541
00:43:59,690 --> 00:44:05,310
are there, and for the community already, and that the land is valuable there.

542
00:44:05,370 --> 00:44:12,810
And if we don't build in the crescent design district, that's where we're going to see the stretch

543
00:44:12,810 --> 00:44:16,470
and the bigger development and our historic district.

544
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:19,850
That's where we're gonna see the bigger and more traffic

545
00:44:19,850 --> 00:44:24,090
causing creation outside of the bypass in Leesburg.

546
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:29,570
And so I personally would like to see the crescent district

547
00:44:30,130 --> 00:44:35,570
go to zero like the downtown for community amenities

548
00:44:35,570 --> 00:44:40,850
in open space because each builder will provide

549
00:44:40,850 --> 00:44:42,610
their own amenities for the folks living there.

550
00:44:42,610 --> 00:44:47,810
they have to. If it's an affordable housing piece, Virginia housing requires certain amenities

551
00:44:47,810 --> 00:44:54,570
to be built, the market itself dictates what a builder will provide for as far as amenities

552
00:44:54,570 --> 00:45:01,450
go to sell the units or rent the units. And so I think our land is valuable in the

553
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:10,540
Rest of the town. And if we are looking at giving up 25% in the crescent district, but only 10% in the

554
00:45:01,450 --> 00:45:04,790
stress and district because of what it does to protect the world.

555
00:45:10,540 --> 00:45:17,120
residential suburban, or the residential medium, or even urban, to me those numbers don't

556
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:24,380
equate to being on par with one another. So I'd like to see if I could get three other council members

557
00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:30,020
to support me, and making adjustments to the Crescent District percentage.

558
00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:34,740
Well, we'll continue with the discussion and come back to that.

559
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:35,060
Okay.

560
00:45:37,450 --> 00:45:38,230
That's it?

561
00:45:38,350 --> 00:45:39,430
Mr. Kirkowski.

562
00:45:41,410 --> 00:45:42,330
Thank you, Madam Mayor.

563
00:45:44,410 --> 00:45:50,910
I had a question and I do want to follow up to Council Member Cummings comment in a moment

564
00:45:50,910 --> 00:45:51,530
here.

565
00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:55,690
I had a question regarding the, I see.

566
00:45:59,950 --> 00:46:12,690
Yeah, so in the crescent district, I had the map pulled up and there was a breakdown for the, I'm sorry, the activity center.

567
00:46:13,570 --> 00:46:15,850
Right, that falls under the crescent district, right?

568
00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:22,870
Okay, so for the activity center, first of, do we have that annotated on the map anywhere for the activity center specific

569
00:46:23,790 --> 00:46:31,870
Yes, let me just get to that map real quick, because I was trying to delineate the areas, the commercial corridor and

570
00:46:33,050 --> 00:46:34,670
residential corridor and those things.

571
00:46:37,140 --> 00:46:38,640
Okay, so your crescent district.

572
00:46:46,910 --> 00:46:46,910
Okay,

573
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:53,940
sorry, just using my pen here. All right, so

574
00:46:53,940 --> 00:47:01,360
here we are, wait a minute, zoom back out.

575
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:13,140
So the Crescent District Activity Center is shown in this dark brown shade here.

576
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,420
So if I can draw on them, you see these right in here.

577
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,540
This is your Crescent District Activity Center zoning designation.

578
00:47:24,540 --> 00:47:34,620
Virginia Village is the only project that meets the criteria of CDAC, but these light brown

579
00:47:34,620 --> 00:47:41,300
areas, change my color to blue, is what we're calling CD,

580
00:47:44,220 --> 00:47:47,000
when we call it CDPAC, planned

581
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:54,340
activity center. So essentially that's here in the tan, and then let me just pan over.

582
00:47:55,540 --> 00:47:57,700
Oops. Hang on.

583
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:05,320
It's this one over here too.

584
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,900
That light brown there. Let me erase that.

585
00:48:10,170 --> 00:48:14,290
And the reason we've done Crescent District planned activity center

586
00:48:14,290 --> 00:48:19,510
is to think of it as a holding pattern for future growth.

587
00:48:20,990 --> 00:48:26,430
The only parcels that can qualify to come into that Crescent District activity center

588
00:48:26,430 --> 00:48:33,930
are one's designated CDPAC, and that is because they are in those two nodes in the

589
00:48:33,930 --> 00:48:38,710
Crescent District Master Plan that the council adopted, and they have to have a minimum

590
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:46,850
15 acres to propose for Crescent District Activity Center, so that there are also insures

591
00:48:46,850 --> 00:48:50,670
that you're getting a significant redevelopment in those areas.

592
00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:56,410
So the one I have circled here, that is a pretty thriving shopping center, so

593
00:48:56,410 --> 00:49:03,130
And, you know, our best guess is you wouldn't really see anything for quite some time, but it's there as a tool in the future.

594
00:49:05,570 --> 00:49:08,710
That was great because you cut off my next question perfectly.

595
00:49:09,070 --> 00:49:09,970
Well done.

596
00:49:10,610 --> 00:49:17,010
And that was leading to the community and many open space requirement where you added half an acre,

597
00:49:17,590 --> 00:49:19,010
whereas everything else was a percentage.

598
00:49:21,370 --> 00:49:27,690
So essentially what you're saying is every activity center must be 15 acres correct and you're

599
00:49:27,690 --> 00:49:31,950
saying you will do 10% plus a half acre in a matter of what it is.

600
00:49:32,010 --> 00:49:34,290
So we're talking about two acres at minimum.

601
00:49:34,890 --> 00:49:35,310
Correct.

602
00:49:35,470 --> 00:49:38,910
At minimum, a signature civic space or park.

603
00:49:39,570 --> 00:49:43,810
And this comes straight from the policy statements and the press and district master plan those

604
00:49:43,810 --> 00:49:47,030
that a vision for these walkable pedestrian nodes

605
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:48,770
around a gathering space.

606
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:49,950
All right.

607
00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:53,570
And in specific to the AC, the activity centers,

608
00:49:53,870 --> 00:49:55,250
I certainly appreciate that.

609
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:59,890
And I think that you will organically see that probably

610
00:49:59,890 --> 00:50:02,730
happen right because that's what the whole idea of an activity

611
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,500
No one, everything's supposed to drive like that. So I do appreciate that.

612
00:50:02,730 --> 00:50:04,810
center is, is that it's, you know, communion.

613
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:09,160
To this, I take a quick moment to speak to council member Cummings point.

614
00:50:10,060 --> 00:50:19,020
I do, I can see that kind of the difference with residential suburban, or any residential being 10%

615
00:50:19,020 --> 00:50:24,960
essentially, and then having restricting it to 25% for our open space for residential neighborhood

616
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,180
for Crescent District, does seem a little bit conflicting,

617
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:32,060
especially for that valuable property that we're looking at.

618
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,660
I don't know that I would wanna necessarily bring it back

619
00:50:36,660 --> 00:50:42,880
to zero, but I kind of wanna piggyback and say

620
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,660
that I do agree with Council Member Cummings,

621
00:50:44,980 --> 00:50:48,480
that that area is definitely more valuable in that corridor,

622
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,600
well, just that area in general is certainly more valuable

623
00:50:51,600 --> 00:51:03,600
for infill. And so I would support a discussion on trying to see where we can land as far as a lower percentage there.

624
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:11,280
And I do also understand that there are certainly when you're building a neighborhood like you need to make open spaces.

625
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:20,400
So they're going to do that automatically, but perhaps we can put a sort of a safeguard to ensure that's not too restrictive, but some sort of safeguard that says,

626
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,680
there's going to be you will have some open space, but I think 25% does seem pretty high for

627
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,180
somewhere that's very downtown adjacent. So, but that's my.

628
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:34,020
Okay, so to continue this

629
00:51:34,020 --> 00:51:40,900
discussion, I'm not sure I can agree with that assessment. If we look at that area that's designated

630
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:48,500
as a planned activity center where that is currently the Plaza Street shopping center,

631
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:55,020
But I don't see that as, while certainly in the area of the crescent design district, I would

632
00:51:55,020 --> 00:52:00,640
argue that if, if in when that develops, that the, wherever winds are living there, whatever

633
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:08,680
reason it's wind are living there would certainly appreciate some sort of amenities on site as

634
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,960
opposed to having to travel to the downtown area,

635
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:17,420
I think an example of maybe that short

636
00:52:18,340 --> 00:52:33,620
When the Virginia Village project was being explored and eventually approved, there was a certain amount of tension in getting the development to include amenities for the residents.

637
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:41,540
Initially, the expectation was, well, I'll just go to Italy and that didn't seem like a very good option.

638
00:52:41,540 --> 00:52:46,680
So eventually I believe certain amenities were worked out for the site, maybe not enough.

639
00:52:47,580 --> 00:52:53,960
But that would be a pretty intense piece of development at some point you're right in the future 20 years, whatever it wants to be.

640
00:52:54,360 --> 00:53:07,800
And so to zero out the requirement for amenities on site, I think would be short-sighted for the success of the project.

641
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,760
And I couldn't support just hearing a lot of all together

642
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,120
whether 25% is the number or not.

643
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:17,640
I don't think it's necessarily an reasonable given

644
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,480
the density that would certainly occur in that particular area.

645
00:53:23,580 --> 00:53:29,060
And the press and district is intended to be one of our

646
00:53:29,060 --> 00:53:32,920
more densely populated sections of the town.

647
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:34,640
That's correct.

648
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:42,140
So there'll be a lot of apartments and things of that nature in that particular area if it continues to grow.

649
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:45,140
I am a huge advocate for open space.

650
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:55,040
I think we saw it when COVID came and how people couldn't get out and how important to open space came, became to people and how valuable it is.

651
00:53:56,100 --> 00:54:01,240
So it concerns me that we would allow it to go down to zero.

652
00:54:02,020 --> 00:54:09,440
I think it's really important with the density involved with the location, with the type of housing that's going to go in there.

653
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:20,700
I think that there has to be some expectation of open space, whether it's a gathering kind of place or it's a top lot kind of thing.

654
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:30,280
I don't expect that it would be a pool and a deck and pool house and all of that, but I do think that there's still that need

655
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:38,100
in that desire, and I, as much as I just hated disagree with Mr. Cummings, I don't think

656
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:44,120
that all of the developers do include those amenities and open space.

657
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,760
Some of them do, some of them are good about it, and some of them don't.

658
00:54:48,020 --> 00:54:52,280
And if you look, if we went back to that map, and I was looking at a couple of the communities

659
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:59,620
there, they are so dense, and there is a very little open space associated with those

660
00:54:59,620 --> 00:55:04,220
particularly developments. And so I want to protect those people that are going to live there.

661
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:29,980
I'd also protect the town in that there. If you look down at the middle town here, look how dense all these, and they should. I mean, that's fine. The density has been already approved. That's not my issue. It's that we need to make sure that we do have some open space requirements there. Maybe 25% is too much. Maybe maybe we should look at 20 or 15. But I think it's an important, and it's an important district, because it's going to

662
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:35,620
be our most dense district, it's going to be apartments that don't have backyards, that don't

663
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:42,700
have swing sets and that sort of thing. And so I do believe that it is important that

664
00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:53,340
we have those things that require me for open space in regard to the crescent district.

665
00:55:53,580 --> 00:55:58,800
So I would be very, I couldn't, I could not support going down to zero. But I would be willing

666
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:03,780
to look at densities of a slightly lesser, not greatly lesser,

667
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:08,840
but a slightly lesser number, and so that's where I am at this point,

668
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:09,640
Mr. Kerkowski.

669
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:11,440
Yes, thanks for letting me read a dress.

670
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,940
I might have put some words in Council Member Cummings,

671
00:56:13,940 --> 00:56:15,720
mouth when I said zero percent.

672
00:56:16,740 --> 00:56:20,020
I don't even think he said zero percent, so I apologize if I did that.

673
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:21,780
But yes, certainly no.

674
00:56:22,740 --> 00:56:25,400
I just think that when you're looking at a community,

675
00:56:25,820 --> 00:56:27,640
and I'm trying to think through some of the communities

676
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:33,340
that exist in Leesburg, and I won't put you on spot by asking where they sit, but kind of

677
00:56:33,340 --> 00:56:38,860
thinking through more recent communities that have been built so like the villages of Leesburg,

678
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:44,160
for instance, I think of the residential areas there. Do you have an idea of where those have fallen

679
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:49,620
as far as open space, and I know you might need a second to pull that up a research, but I think

680
00:56:49,620 --> 00:56:55,020
of those kind of communities, and I look at them and I'm like, you know what I think that is a fair

681
00:56:55,020 --> 00:56:59,300
balance of open space, and you might come back and give me a number that I'm going to

682
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:07,180
get caught off guard by, but I also think that one of the really, I'm sorry, could I interrupt

683
00:57:07,180 --> 00:57:13,200
you? Oh yes. Where do you see the open space at the village of Liesberg, the village of Liesberg?

684
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:17,120
So they have a courtyard by their parking garage and then the town houses on the other side

685
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:25,000
actually have considerably more, I don't know if that counts as part of the villages, but

686
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,560
Yeah, they have a big court yard with some playground stuff.

687
00:57:30,140 --> 00:57:32,760
I think they're surrounded like a U-shaped by most of the residents.

688
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:33,800
I think they're parking good, right?

689
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:34,240
Yeah, yeah.

690
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,380
But when I think of the crescent design district too,

691
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,280
I imagine, and I could be off base here, but I imagine that a lot of people

692
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,440
that are thinking I'm going to move here,

693
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,600
one of the, maybe not amenities, but one of the benefits they get is that they're

694
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,980
moving into an area that's downtown adjacent.

695
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,520
So they have access to the walkability of going downtown.

696
00:57:54,520 --> 00:58:01,180
the bike trail and things like that so sometimes and again I know we haven't settled on the

697
00:58:01,180 --> 00:58:06,460
number but I feel like sometimes people are looking to maybe say like yeah I don't have quite

698
00:58:06,460 --> 00:58:11,540
as much open space but I have access to getting to open space or I have access to these other

699
00:58:11,540 --> 00:58:17,680
amenities so not to say this isn't easy one but I think that fitting the Tetris pieces together

700
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:23,580
is definitely challenging but I think that maybe the downtown area and the crescent design district

701
00:58:23,580 --> 00:58:29,520
designed to kind of mirrors each other a little bit with the walkability and the easier access

702
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,020
to those amenities. That's just my thought process.

703
00:58:35,770 --> 00:58:45,470
What says we're referring to existing projects? Can you or Mr. Wackens tell us in the brickyard

704
00:58:45,470 --> 00:58:52,970
project is currently being built? What percentage of open space is being provided there?

705
00:58:52,970 --> 00:58:57,830
because it's a pretty dense development that I'm not sure I see any.

706
00:58:58,750 --> 00:59:07,590
And that's a residential work space kind of a situation that necessarily mixed use, but still.

707
00:59:08,990 --> 00:59:12,330
I think Mr. Walkens was researching village at Leesburg.

708
00:59:14,430 --> 00:59:16,650
Did he estimate there, Mr. Walkens?

709
00:59:17,570 --> 00:59:24,350
So, land-based sea, which is the southern land bay that's south of Russell Branch, is the largest

710
00:59:24,350 --> 00:59:27,150
portion of open space amenity area.

711
00:59:27,730 --> 00:59:32,890
There's also that amenity features within the two upper land bay, land bay, A, B, which

712
00:59:32,890 --> 00:59:38,310
are north of Russell Branch, but there are more urban, so integrated open space.

713
00:59:38,310 --> 00:59:46,490
The open space slash recreation area is contained primarily south of Russell Bridge

714
00:59:46,490 --> 00:59:49,430
And Rick Yard looking it up right now

715
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:55,750
While

716
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,100
we get I mean I understand the direction there we go data. I understand

717
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:13,700
We're not allowed to attend and visit other areas, but we're also where they live to be convenient. And quality of life is always mentioned by residents, if it's in why they live in these areas.

718
01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:04,800
We want people to walk right

719
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:22,000
And that is true. Quality of life is everything, every comment that we get. Can we come back? Do you have it?

720
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:32,040
So, on the breakout site, they have 25% so there's two acres of open space on site.

721
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:33,360
Great.

722
01:00:33,940 --> 01:00:35,060
Okay, it must be to his back.

723
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:36,020
They haven't developed yet.

724
01:00:36,060 --> 01:00:41,620
There's a top lot in the back and then the area between the townhouses you see now.

725
01:00:41,740 --> 01:00:43,340
Katoctum is also open space.

726
01:00:45,020 --> 01:00:46,280
There's a dog park.

727
01:00:46,580 --> 01:00:47,680
Okay, that's it.

728
01:00:48,700 --> 01:00:49,620
Okay, thank you.

729
01:00:49,820 --> 01:00:50,320
Mr. Cummings.

730
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:51,040
Thank you.

731
01:00:52,140 --> 01:00:55,200
You didn't put words of my mouth from Mr. Karkowski. I did say zero.

732
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,120
You don't say zero, don't worry.

733
01:00:58,500 --> 01:01:04,100
But I said zero just as a, what does that like a, you know, shock value? Thank you.

734
01:01:04,780 --> 01:01:11,420
I, I, I appreciate everyone's comments. I mean, to me, I just, when I look at the activity

735
01:01:11,420 --> 01:01:16,020
centers, those seem to be the bigger developments. And so if we're only requiring, I guess

736
01:01:16,020 --> 01:01:20,900
that my question is, the 10% of the activity center plus,

737
01:01:21,260 --> 01:01:23,840
it's only 10% because we're asking for the half an acre

738
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,420
of civics, right?

739
01:01:25,580 --> 01:01:26,860
Yeah, civics, excuse me, not civics.

740
01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:32,400
So I mean, I would be comfortable looking at,

741
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,520
you know, can you give us a description

742
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,340
of the residential urban 15% with the 25 and the crescent?

743
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,120
Again, I just keep going back to,

744
01:01:41,420 --> 01:01:44,240
if this council and previous councils

745
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:50,660
have wanted the Crescent Design District to be where we put our people to live, where we put

746
01:01:50,660 --> 01:01:56,460
our mixed use, then we have to be able to protect our downtown, to be able to protect the

747
01:01:56,460 --> 01:02:04,560
other suburban areas, if you will, of the town of Leesburg. We have to not take up, we can't

748
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:10,860
handicap and handcuff folks building homes and building development in the Crescent District

749
01:02:10,860 --> 01:02:16,300
to 25% if the residential urban is only 15 or 10% or 15,

750
01:02:16,460 --> 01:02:20,360
I can't read it, but can you give me an example

751
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,960
of that residential urban compared to the commercial corridor,

752
01:02:24,060 --> 01:02:25,860
or the residential neighborhood in the Crescent District?

753
01:02:26,740 --> 01:02:27,300
Sure.

754
01:02:28,420 --> 01:02:31,960
So while I'm pulling that up, I think one of the reasons

755
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:36,580
that staff, the planning commission, landed on 25% is again,

756
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,260
just looking at that master plan and the policy statements

757
01:02:39,260 --> 01:02:44,960
in there. This was meant to be the town's form-based code area with an emphasis on street

758
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:51,140
scape and pedestrian-oriented activity. So we took that to mean, okay, more of an emphasis on

759
01:02:51,140 --> 01:02:56,200
amenities and open space for the community. Certainly, the numbers aren't set in stone,

760
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:01,200
so open to discussion, but I'll just show you real quick where the residential urban is on the map.

761
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,240
So that is the dark orange color.

762
01:03:06,220 --> 01:03:10,580
So we're talking about, sorry, this is not cooperating.

763
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:12,200
Thank you.

764
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,520
Let's see pan around here.

765
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,800
I need an art major to know which pan.

766
01:03:18,940 --> 01:03:22,280
So here's residential urban up here.

767
01:03:23,140 --> 01:03:24,460
That's a battlefield.

768
01:03:24,460 --> 01:03:34,310
That's those apartments there behind the 7-11 in the Loudon Habitat for Humanity yeah, yeah, and then let's see if I can

769
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,980
My circle is going to travel with us as we find more residential urban

770
01:03:46,450 --> 01:03:47,850
Right here

771
01:03:47,850 --> 01:03:50,940
I believe that's residential urban as well

772
01:03:52,210 --> 01:03:55,870
Those are the apartments down in here

773
01:03:55,870 --> 01:03:59,370
Long gateway drives southeast here and here

774
01:04:00,350 --> 01:04:06,830
Also, up here at the Elixir Leesburg, or no, that's not for the Elixir Leesburg, what is that, Mike?

775
01:04:10,370 --> 01:04:13,110
Is that the new big tea properties development?

776
01:04:13,970 --> 01:04:13,990
There.

777
01:04:15,030 --> 01:04:15,050
Yep.

778
01:04:15,290 --> 01:04:15,450
Yep.

779
01:04:16,010 --> 01:04:19,010
And then all in here, that's what all be residential urban as well.

780
01:04:19,690 --> 01:04:31,790
So it seems to me that that residential urban is apartments, condos, kind of multifamily, which is a part of the crescent design.

781
01:04:31,790 --> 01:04:40,650
So, I mean, I agree zero is probably not enough, and so I would be happy to throw out

782
01:04:40,650 --> 01:04:46,070
15, you know, mimicking the residential urban and say 15 percent because again, I want

783
01:04:46,070 --> 01:04:52,650
to just reiterate, these are what we're talking about is public amenities, public open space,

784
01:04:53,070 --> 01:04:57,430
that anyone, whether you live in that neighborhood or live in prospect hills, you can go

785
01:04:58,590 --> 01:05:04,570
The developers will, maybe not to what we all would want them to, still provide amenities.

786
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:29,980
Within the building, and within their developments, because the market tells them they have to, and if it's affordable housing, Virginia housing tells them they have to, and so I just want to make sure, I'd like to see if I could get a few people to join me and say 15% and as a bad negotiator, I'd go up to 20, but you know, just I want to see some sort of effort to show that we're reserved, some of that, some of that important property.

787
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:31,240
there in the Crescent District?

788
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:33,960
Yes, sir.

789
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:35,800
Well, one final point.

790
01:05:35,980 --> 01:05:40,580
And when we talk about these activity centers, or planned activity centers, we are talking

791
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,780
about areas that are being reserved for some of the densest development.

792
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:51,960
That means these applications and developers are going up, so they're going to be putting

793
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:58,240
more units in less space, but obviously accommodating more individuals.

794
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:05,800
And so they will be granted extraordinary use of the land just by virtue of the fact that they're being granted

795
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:11,060
the densest kind of development we can offer as of now within the town.

796
01:06:11,340 --> 01:06:14,560
And so the expectation of having to provide,

797
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:24,520
whether it's 25% or 22.5% for open space in that kind of development,

798
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,180
I don't see as unreasonable.

799
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,220
Do you have a motion, or not a motion?

800
01:06:32,380 --> 01:06:33,220
Can't do a motion.

801
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:34,320
Don't go there.

802
01:06:36,660 --> 01:06:39,380
Did we want to look at, do we have four people

803
01:06:39,380 --> 01:06:42,280
that would be interested that would be willing to lower

804
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:43,460
from 25 to 20?

805
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:46,920
Last one.

806
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:48,160
One clarifying question.

807
01:06:49,540 --> 01:06:53,300
So what I think we're discussing activity centers a

808
01:06:53,300 --> 01:06:55,440
little bit, but also I think we're more so

809
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,180
address trying to address the commercial corridor

810
01:06:57,180 --> 01:06:58,200
in the residential neighborhood.

811
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:04,260
So when we're talking the crescent design district, if we're talking residential neighborhood, there's

812
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:11,680
As of this moment, there's not a lot of opportunity for residential neighborhood correct, and I think there's one plot in

813
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:12,500
particular

814
01:07:12,500 --> 01:07:19,980
That stands out. That's the site of the formal mobile home park correct. That's probably one of the ones. That's not 15 acres as it

815
01:07:20,740 --> 01:07:23,220
It's not okay. I didn't think so. So that would fall

816
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:24,340
under

817
01:07:24,340 --> 01:07:29,260
most likely residential neighborhood correct because it's not on the corridor I

818
01:07:29,260 --> 01:07:33,600
don't the and it's not labeled on the corridor it's residential core H on the

819
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:41,160
district map. So a Western district residential neighborhood it's this here

820
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:44,580
all

821
01:07:44,580 --> 01:07:53,970
this and here. I haven't done your circle. That was a ghost. It's sorry to see

822
01:07:55,050 --> 01:08:02,470
the existing crescent place, and then on the other side of the trail, it's the undeveloped

823
01:08:02,470 --> 01:08:05,070
trailer park home, and then the salvage yard.

824
01:08:07,830 --> 01:08:11,730
So the formal mobile home park, and where?

825
01:08:12,430 --> 01:08:13,230
Deepo court.

826
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:17,310
So the salvage yard, park or court, deepo court.

827
01:08:18,150 --> 01:08:18,830
Okay.

828
01:08:19,790 --> 01:08:21,930
And those are pretty much the only two areas, correct?

829
01:08:21,930 --> 01:08:28,590
You've also got this area here and then many colors.

830
01:08:30,150 --> 01:08:39,590
You've got the residential portion of Crescent Park, which is this here.

831
01:08:44,370 --> 01:08:49,410
And it's already subject to profit rezoning and their near-site planet approval.

832
01:08:51,850 --> 01:08:55,310
And none of these meet the 15 acre threshold, correct?

833
01:08:56,410 --> 01:08:56,930
I don't know.

834
01:08:57,070 --> 01:08:59,410
Now, these are outside the planned activities center.

835
01:09:00,150 --> 01:09:00,310
Okay.

836
01:09:01,210 --> 01:09:01,750
Okay. Sorry.

837
01:09:01,890 --> 01:09:03,210
I just want to clarify that real quick.

838
01:09:03,310 --> 01:09:05,630
There really isn't a whole lot of opportunity.

839
01:09:05,910 --> 01:09:10,230
Unless we have parcels get bought up and reintegrate,

840
01:09:10,710 --> 01:09:12,150
or, I don't know what the term is,

841
01:09:13,050 --> 01:09:15,010
packaged together, right?

842
01:09:15,490 --> 01:09:16,590
So, okay.

843
01:09:16,890 --> 01:09:17,490
Thank you.

844
01:09:18,170 --> 01:09:25,170
So again, I'll go back and say all the four people that would be interested in changing the number two to 20.

845
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:27,920
I would.

846
01:09:30,970 --> 01:09:30,990
Okay.

847
01:09:31,510 --> 01:09:31,750
Okay.

848
01:09:34,110 --> 01:09:34,410
Okay.

849
01:09:34,570 --> 01:09:39,030
So that's 20% for CDC and CDRN.

850
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:40,230
Got it.

851
01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:43,230
We'll need that 20.

852
01:09:45,130 --> 01:09:46,130
All right.

853
01:09:46,710 --> 01:09:46,990
Excellent.

854
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:51,120
Downtown.

855
01:09:52,540 --> 01:09:52,900
All right.

856
01:09:54,040 --> 01:10:04,040
So downtown there was quite a few comments from the council and so we tried to kind of just break this out.

857
01:10:00,590 --> 01:10:14,450
Item by item. So the first one is building height. So as proposed, downtown, formerly B1, now we call it DT, is residential

858
01:10:14,450 --> 01:10:22,850
max, 35 feet tall, non-residential max, 45 feet tall, but then we also have the enhanced building

859
01:10:22,850 --> 01:10:31,670
height in certain areas. And that is this polygon shown on this map here. And basically what

860
01:10:31,670 --> 01:10:37,450
is going on there is that's a lower elevation relative to the rest of downtown. You can

861
01:10:37,450 --> 01:10:44,770
see that by the contour lines here. And so this is a carry forward. This is existing in your

862
01:10:44,770 --> 01:10:50,950
existing zoning ordinance. We're carrying it forward. And the thought process back in the day was

863
01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:56,410
Because it's lower at topography, so a little bit more building height is still going to maintain

864
01:10:56,410 --> 01:10:59,930
that visual complement to the rest of downtown.

865
01:11:01,130 --> 01:11:09,850
So those parcels within this polygon can go up to 65, but they have to meet certain criteria

866
01:11:10,430 --> 01:11:16,130
and in some instances they have to kind of step back and that wedding cake effect from the front

867
01:11:16,130 --> 01:11:17,290
of the property line.

868
01:11:17,290 --> 01:11:34,590
So with this also include if they have to, if they're in the flood plain and they have to build up the property line, they have to infill it that it still would be measured from its original average natural grade.

869
01:11:34,710 --> 01:11:37,390
Yes, ma'am. We put that into the code. Yep.

870
01:11:38,370 --> 01:11:47,950
And so here, you know, the thought from Council Member Willt was, do we really want this

871
01:11:47,950 --> 01:11:53,970
additional enhanced building height area to be a by-right, or would we rather have some

872
01:11:53,970 --> 01:11:58,050
Council review and put it to a minor special exception process?

873
01:11:58,470 --> 01:12:05,470
So staff is open to either approach, and with that, I'll just pause and see what Council

874
01:12:05,470 --> 01:12:06,030
things.

875
01:12:07,190 --> 01:12:12,890
Well, I'm always in favor of the ability of a project to come forward before Council, or

876
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:13,470
the public.

877
01:12:14,330 --> 01:12:21,870
I don't like to see major changes that this could become and not go before the public

878
01:12:21,870 --> 01:12:25,330
can have public input and where they elected people.

879
01:12:25,450 --> 01:12:26,910
We have to take the responsibility.

880
01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:34,150
We are people elected us to make the decisions, so for me it's always let's do what's best

881
01:12:34,150 --> 01:12:40,630
for the residents and their choice of electing us, we need to make that decision, but that's just

882
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:44,490
my point of view on that one. Anybody else? Mr. Steinberg?

883
01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:50,750
Well, hard to believe I concur. There are three important issues in this particular district.

884
01:12:50,890 --> 01:12:58,470
One is the building height allowable. One is measuring from the original grade as opposed to

885
01:12:58,470 --> 01:13:03,450
of grade, and the third is the number of units allowable by right.

886
01:13:04,610 --> 01:13:09,010
The planning commission, I think, wisely said, let's leave that at five, not bump

887
01:13:09,010 --> 01:13:15,330
up to ten, even I appreciate the staff is recommending ten, but I think we want, I would prefer

888
01:13:15,330 --> 01:13:21,950
to be more protective of the historic district than less, and we can always grant additional

889
01:13:21,950 --> 01:13:30,450
densities by whatever processes required in a given situation, and we wanted to be assured

890
01:13:30,450 --> 01:13:36,430
that we are not overtaxing what is already an overtaxed infrastructure within the downtown

891
01:13:36,430 --> 01:13:41,330
area in terms of traffic and people being able to navigate through.

892
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:42,050
And park?

893
01:13:42,190 --> 01:13:42,870
Easily.

894
01:13:43,230 --> 01:13:43,610
And parking.

895
01:13:44,510 --> 01:13:45,850
Well, the new talk about that.

896
01:13:46,670 --> 01:13:55,170
I have no problems with the recommendations for plan and commission regarding the downtown district.

897
01:13:56,050 --> 01:14:01,050
I would not be in favor of increasing by rate at the 70 feet.

898
01:14:01,490 --> 01:14:04,410
Or, as I said, the number of units per.

899
01:14:05,230 --> 01:14:05,590
So, thanks.

900
01:14:06,210 --> 01:14:08,470
We'll get to those few topics here in just a moment.

901
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:13,590
Mr. Well, you as one of the breathes forward, do you have something you want to say to about it?

902
01:14:17,620 --> 01:14:27,220
I think James presented it correctly. My interest was in the downtown as a, specifically the downtown.

903
01:14:27,980 --> 01:14:36,940
I'm looking at it. It's our historic downtown. It's a rare and asset. We're not building new historic buildings.

904
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:45,300
We're building new buildings. How to maintain the historic character with the right oversight that is,

905
01:14:45,300 --> 01:14:47,300
It does not disturb that character.

906
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:56,620
So my interest was, in this case, this isn't prohibiting these kind of constructions.

907
01:14:56,780 --> 01:15:03,760
It's providing a little extra oversight with the special exception process.

908
01:15:01,650 --> 01:15:23,770
All right, Mr. Cummings? I just had a quick question. Something that Council Member Steinberg brought up, and the mayor, I think, brought mentioned it, the measuring of buildings for height. I guess I'm just curious, what, so if I'm, so we're measuring based on the final grade of land, is that, is that what we're looking at doing?

909
01:15:23,770 --> 01:15:32,450
And no, currently in your existing zoning ordinance, the measurement is from finished grade.

910
01:15:33,410 --> 01:15:38,610
But the zoning ordinance rewrite is contemplating a new methodology from average natural

911
01:15:38,610 --> 01:15:45,690
grade so that the building height is not measured after the, the grade has been raised.

912
01:15:46,350 --> 01:15:53,110
And so what that looks like, it's back in article one under measurements and allowances.

913
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:55,590
so we'll go there real quick.

914
01:16:05,330 --> 01:16:05,330
Okay,

915
01:16:09,700 --> 01:16:11,640
the way it would read now is

916
01:16:12,820 --> 01:16:17,840
building height shall be measured as follows from various roof forms as

917
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:21,260
the vertical distance from the average level of highest and lowest

918
01:16:21,260 --> 01:16:24,200
existing grade of that portion of the site covered by the building.

919
01:16:26,590 --> 01:16:27,190
And this is

920
01:16:27,190 --> 01:16:29,350
and we're doing this just in the downtown district.

921
01:16:32,300 --> 01:16:34,920
I know. So this is across the

922
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:42,920
entire town? Correct. So what if I'm building a flex space, flex industrial, and I'm

923
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,400
and I if I grade the land, I can go down below,

924
01:16:49,500 --> 01:16:51,800
but I still want to get the same height for

925
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:56,250
my, my flex building, which Russell Seymour, and you can add relevant tells we need more and more.

926
01:16:57,500 --> 01:17:04,200
Where, where, how, how do we square that circle? So it's it's the average level of highest and

927
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:09,460
existing grade. So if you dig down deeper it wouldn't be where you're measuring from.

928
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:19,300
So I still can only do, if I go down 20 feet and then I can, in my, I have a

929
01:17:19,300 --> 01:17:25,480
approval of 70, I can only build 50, I can only build 50. It would be from the existing grade.

930
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:32,540
So if you started at zero and you got to prove to 70, you went down 20, when I could not

931
01:17:32,540 --> 01:17:36,260
to 50, you can still be 70 from the existing grade.

932
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:38,700
Right, so I could be 90, okay.

933
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:46,560
And other localities, is this how they measure for there?

934
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:47,560
It varies.

935
01:17:48,420 --> 01:17:53,260
I think that my experience, well before,

936
01:17:53,420 --> 01:17:56,580
town of Lisburg, back in California, this was how we measured,

937
01:17:57,020 --> 01:18:01,120
because we had the same challenge with folks raising the grade

938
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,020
and then putting the building on top.

939
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:07,180
So the idea was to measure from average natural grade.

940
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:09,120
But I think Mr. Walkins would tell you

941
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:11,340
that other jurisdictions, they do it from finish grade,

942
01:18:11,440 --> 01:18:12,780
it's a little bit easier to administer,

943
01:18:13,260 --> 01:18:14,960
a little bit easier for the designer.

944
01:18:16,140 --> 01:18:16,340
All right.

945
01:18:19,220 --> 01:18:20,320
Mr. Kerkowski,

946
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:23,160
don't do

947
01:18:25,460 --> 01:18:26,580
it.

948
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:28,720
Going perfect.

949
01:18:29,460 --> 01:18:30,260
Yeah, you're on it.

950
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:36,420
So speaking to the residential max 35 foot in downtown,

951
01:18:36,420 --> 01:18:36,500
Well,

952
01:18:39,060 --> 01:18:45,260
this can be considered, I know it's not arbitrary, but like when we're looking at 35 feet.

953
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:48,880
Does that allow a three-story building residential?

954
01:18:51,210 --> 01:18:51,770
Yeah.

955
01:18:52,190 --> 01:18:52,430
Okay.

956
01:18:53,590 --> 01:18:57,250
And then a non-residential 45 feet.

957
01:18:58,030 --> 01:19:00,530
So what's the idea between the two?

958
01:19:00,530 --> 01:19:00,950
Right.

959
01:19:00,950 --> 01:19:02,090
What's the difference here?

960
01:19:02,190 --> 01:19:04,790
For saying that it's important that we have a cap.

961
01:19:05,550 --> 01:19:08,670
Why are we saying that a residential should not extend to 45?

962
01:19:08,670 --> 01:19:11,850
and feel free to explain it very plainly.

963
01:19:13,810 --> 01:19:16,670
These were the existing numbers that we carried forward.

964
01:19:17,410 --> 01:19:19,770
Right, so existing from the previous zoning ordinance.

965
01:19:20,930 --> 01:19:26,870
So, we would not be likely to see, well, we would not see town homes or something similar

966
01:19:26,870 --> 01:19:31,470
to the station master, for instance, those are four story town homes.

967
01:19:32,150 --> 01:19:37,110
We would only see a three story town home, for instance, if somebody was to build in downtown.

968
01:19:37,890 --> 01:19:42,770
Well, those station masters actually in that enhanced building on below, which is why they

969
01:19:42,770 --> 01:19:43,210
got to do this.

970
01:19:43,230 --> 01:19:44,790
Because I make it in there.

971
01:19:45,530 --> 01:19:47,250
Oh, I could use my colors again.

972
01:19:48,010 --> 01:19:48,850
You got me.

973
01:19:49,050 --> 01:19:49,710
There's less colors.

974
01:19:49,950 --> 01:19:55,750
So it's actually, it should be easier to recognize, but okay, I guess it was more just a kind

975
01:19:55,750 --> 01:20:00,530
of a point of reference to understand, making sure that we're not capping it.

976
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:05,440
5 feet correct. Correct. Okay. Then I mean, I don't really have an issue with that. Thank you very much.

977
01:20:00,530 --> 01:20:04,810
They can, a residential can still be a three-story townhouse at 30.

978
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:14,820
Mr. Welter, you. Okay. I do want to follow up on that discussion you were just having about natural grade and existing grade.

979
01:20:17,850 --> 01:20:25,010
What point does something that is graded become the existing grade for future measurements?

980
01:20:28,180 --> 01:20:33,280
So someone has a plot of land, and they do some site work contouring on it.

981
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:35,740
And it raises the grade five feet.

982
01:20:37,490 --> 01:20:40,610
Five years later is that what is the grade

983
01:20:40,610 --> 01:20:42,890
at which we're saying is the natural grade?

984
01:20:44,900 --> 01:20:45,980
Under the proposed scenario,

985
01:20:46,180 --> 01:20:47,720
we'd go back to the cycling

986
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:49,960
for which the grading was approved,

987
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:51,920
and it would have the as-built survey

988
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:53,820
from which we would take the topography

989
01:20:53,820 --> 01:20:57,340
and compute the existing natural grade.

990
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:01,240
Okay, and if this is a different project or a different application,

991
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:04,460
you say go through the original applications.

992
01:21:04,460 --> 01:21:08,240
So if this is a different app, maybe the first one was abandoned.

993
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:13,860
What's the grade that is now going to be used for the new application?

994
01:21:15,740 --> 01:21:17,020
I think it's still the same scenario.

995
01:21:17,220 --> 01:21:20,520
We would go back to the original grading plan,

996
01:21:20,900 --> 01:21:22,500
the change the topography on the site,

997
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,240
and use the Asple information on that.

998
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:29,860
So any artificial manipulation to the site

999
01:21:29,860 --> 01:21:33,460
does not then become the basis from which the height measurements.

1000
01:21:33,460 --> 01:21:42,460
We go back to the original natural grade as surveyed, and that might be multiple applications

1001
01:21:42,460 --> 01:21:42,980
ago.

1002
01:21:43,260 --> 01:21:43,800
Is that correct?

1003
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:45,460
Yeah.

1004
01:21:45,460 --> 01:21:48,100
We use the record to the best of our ability.

1005
01:21:49,380 --> 01:21:53,320
And then I wanted to inquire on a consumer and a crockowski's question.

1006
01:21:53,700 --> 01:22:01,460
The difference between residential and the non-residential max heights.

1007
01:22:01,460 --> 01:22:09,440
So, if we're looking at just the architectural neighborhood facade,

1008
01:22:11,780 --> 01:22:16,260
so regardless of the use,

1009
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:21,600
why is there a 10-foot difference in what would change the streetscape and the facade?

1010
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:28,700
Why not if we're looking at architectural design and consistency and facade?

1011
01:22:28,700 --> 01:22:29,820
Why not have a consistency?

1012
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:38,760
Well, I can only speculate since I wasn't around when these were determined, but I would assume

1013
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:44,640
that residential buildings historically were smaller in scale than non-residential buildings.

1014
01:22:45,300 --> 01:22:50,760
So, the work, but this rewrite is proposing to maintain that inconsistency.

1015
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:55,680
So there must be a logic there, why are we proposing to maintain the inconsistency?

1016
01:22:56,260 --> 01:23:02,100
There is no compelling reason to change the existing character, it seems to be working.

1017
01:23:02,580 --> 01:23:05,940
There haven't been too many difficulties and the other thing I just wanted to add real

1018
01:23:05,940 --> 01:23:08,760
quick was, these would be theoretical building volumes.

1019
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:15,080
There are still subjects that each one guidelines where the BAR would do their compatibility

1020
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:19,300
test with the proposed structure and how it meets the context of adjacent properties.

1021
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:31,330
Okay, so we're essentially going to depend on the BAR to be the governing body for these issues.

1022
01:23:31,530 --> 01:23:35,170
For architectural compatibility with the traditional neighborhood pattern.

1023
01:23:36,970 --> 01:23:40,030
Okay, and this also incorporates another distinction.

1024
01:23:40,990 --> 01:23:51,180
The residential allows a three story building, the commercial by right allows a four story building, is that correct?

1025
01:23:54,060 --> 01:24:01,060
We tend not to use story just because the way the program, the building can be programmed.

1026
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:08,800
So the thought there was maintaining just a volume of height that dimensional element and not story.

1027
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:12,540
Okay, a bit in practice, like Council Member Krakowski asked earlier.

1028
01:24:13,180 --> 01:24:17,340
35 feet residential will provide a three-story building.

1029
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:22,260
So 45 foot, non-rencident will provide a four-story building, correct?

1030
01:24:23,340 --> 01:24:31,000
However, the B.A.R. can reduce that height if they feel it's incompatible with the surrounding historic neighborhood.

1031
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:33,300
They can't increase it.

1032
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:37,220
Okay.

1033
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:38,480
That's it for now.

1034
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:39,060
Thank you.

1035
01:24:39,820 --> 01:24:39,840
Yeah.

1036
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:45,980
I'd just like to go into that is in that I think we have to be very careful with our historic district.

1037
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,900
It's a very precious treasure that we have.

1038
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,800
Many of those houses are old houses that are smaller.

1039
01:24:52,800 --> 01:25:03,940
They are designed in that era and I'd hate to see us start putting townhouses next to, you know.

1040
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:06,560
House has been there for 150 years. It's two stories, and we put four story townhouses next to it. You've

1041
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:12,320
got to think about the character and the viability of keeping that neighborhood strong. And we

1042
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:18,720
don't want to lose what we've got in our residential aspect downtown. I wouldn't think.

1043
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:22,480
So, I'm seeing, yes, sir.

1044
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:29,940
No, I wanted to follow up on the point you just made, because in practice, that has already been done.

1045
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:38,180
So on South King Street, the King Street Station project was mentioned, and that was in the additional height zone.

1046
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:46,140
But we did put four story buildings right next to a Queen Anne 2 story, and that next to a colonial 2 story.

1047
01:25:46,140 --> 01:25:48,340
And that was approved by the B.A.R.

1048
01:25:49,460 --> 01:25:52,360
So why would that not happen again in the future

1049
01:25:53,100 --> 01:25:55,020
before operating under these parameters?

1050
01:25:57,540 --> 01:26:01,780
I think the King Street station is in this enhanced building height area.

1051
01:26:02,420 --> 01:26:02,800
It is.

1052
01:26:03,380 --> 01:26:06,620
But the B.A.R. determined that was architecturally appropriate.

1053
01:26:07,260 --> 01:26:09,700
Next to the Queen AM and the Colonial.

1054
01:26:11,020 --> 01:26:13,960
It wasn't a zoning ordinance limitations to the B.A.R.

1055
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:17,060
as the governing body gave it to go ahead.

1056
01:26:17,060 --> 01:26:23,700
So, we're not changing anything, so I would presume that situation could occur again.

1057
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:25,740
That could, it probably will.

1058
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:32,360
In reference to the King Street Station project, I think there were two mitigating factors

1059
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:37,360
that were considered when that project was approved. One was the building for which

1060
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:42,560
goose cup was located in. So you had that stuff back from the street. So the size scale

1061
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:49,420
massing of the Goose Cup building on South King Street, mitigated the theoretical max.

1062
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:54,740
And then the other community element gathering element that was provided was the Pavilion.

1063
01:26:55,480 --> 01:26:58,120
Again, the buildings were set back further from King Street.

1064
01:26:58,300 --> 01:27:03,920
So I think you're not wrong that there can be other projects that propose to utilize the

1065
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:08,460
maximum building heights in this King Street station project.

1066
01:27:08,460 --> 01:27:14,400
I think those two elements were taken in strong consideration when evaluating building height.

1067
01:27:17,030 --> 01:27:29,310
Okay, so I'm coming, I guess I'm coming to the conclusion that without, within envelope parameters provided by the zoning ordinance, the controlling body is the BAR.

1068
01:27:30,530 --> 01:27:32,690
Is that, that's a correct statement.

1069
01:27:33,890 --> 01:27:41,030
On my steering of legislative approval, Council wanted to give certain development rights to that application.

1070
01:27:41,570 --> 01:27:42,750
Council could do that.

1071
01:27:47,060 --> 01:27:48,680
I don't think I understood that might.

1072
01:27:51,020 --> 01:27:57,060
So in theory, if you have a legislative application, Council can override the BAR's recommendation for the volume of the building.

1073
01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:03,220
So during a legislative application, the application is forwarded to the BAR for its recommendations.

1074
01:28:04,220 --> 01:28:10,280
that thought was specific to that practice was given specific thought for for this exact

1075
01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:15,920
scenario is that they can give you all guidance on their interpretation of the guidelines,

1076
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:19,440
however legislatively you can approve a taller building.

1077
01:28:21,500 --> 01:28:22,360
That was very controversial.

1078
01:28:22,940 --> 01:28:24,400
It was a split decision.

1079
01:28:29,700 --> 01:28:32,520
But we, that answered your question.

1080
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:37,740
Yeah, I'm not sure how to proceed at this point, so I'll wrap up.

1081
01:28:37,900 --> 01:28:38,760
Thank you.

1082
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:49,820
So we have before us the proposal to support keeping the downtown district enhanced building height boundaries to the lower elevation than the rest of the downtown.

1083
01:28:50,060 --> 01:28:56,120
And the staff is open to discussing in my special exception to allow the building height to increase beyond 45 feet in this area.

1084
01:28:56,120 --> 01:29:02,880
So, the first thing you're asking for is the consideration of the lower.

1085
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:14,600
We would just be asking if the council would like to make any enhanced building height in the polygon you see on the screen require a minor special exception.

1086
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:19,420
So, to go above 45 feet, the council would like to see that.

1087
01:29:19,420 --> 01:29:28,400
Okay, are there four people that would like to see that if it were to go above the 45 feet that we would have to go to a

1088
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:38,620
minor special exception, is that what you said correct, okay, are there four people that would support that okay, all right, that was forward to and then

1089
01:29:43,180 --> 01:29:45,020
The next one is the

1090
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:52,940
Uh, committing a maximum of 10 multi-family dwellings by rights in the downtown district.

1091
01:29:53,780 --> 01:29:57,040
Yeah, let me talk about that a little bit, but if you want me to check in real quick,

1092
01:29:57,180 --> 01:29:59,680
Madam Mayor, we've exceeded our hour. Do you want to continue?

1093
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:02,840
We want to continue, or are you done at this point? I want to.

1094
01:30:00,430 --> 01:30:01,070
Okay.

1095
01:30:01,290 --> 01:30:02,290
Where people that want to continue?

1096
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:03,810
All right.

1097
01:30:04,210 --> 01:30:05,170
God, you guys are good.

1098
01:30:06,970 --> 01:30:09,710
Red lights flashing at me, so I just wanted to make sure.

1099
01:30:11,990 --> 01:30:13,570
No, let's keep track of it.

1100
01:30:13,890 --> 01:30:17,430
Would you set it for another ten minutes?

1101
01:30:20,710 --> 01:30:22,990
I'm just going to put a piece of paper over it there.

1102
01:30:25,570 --> 01:30:26,190
All right.

1103
01:30:27,050 --> 01:30:28,270
Downtown multi-family.

1104
01:30:28,270 --> 01:30:41,470
So, existing zoning ordinance and proposed zoning ordinance rewrite by your planning commission is up to 5 multi-family units by right.

1105
01:30:42,670 --> 01:30:49,830
The existing ordinance basically says six or more is a minor special exception.

1106
01:30:51,090 --> 01:30:52,490
There's a slight change here.

1107
01:30:52,490 --> 01:30:55,050
We put some parameters on the minor special exception.

1108
01:30:55,250 --> 01:30:57,930
We said six to 40 multifamily units,

1109
01:30:58,130 --> 01:31:02,590
minor special exception, 41 plus is a special exception.

1110
01:31:02,810 --> 01:31:05,490
So let's go get the commissions take on it.

1111
01:31:07,790 --> 01:31:10,710
As part of the discussion with the commission staff

1112
01:31:10,710 --> 01:31:14,850
had originally proposed up to 10 multifamily units by right.

1113
01:31:15,510 --> 01:31:18,190
We thought this was a good incremental increase

1114
01:31:18,710 --> 01:31:23,250
that spoke to your town plan goals for housing near established

1115
01:31:23,250 --> 01:31:29,470
economic and civic centers. We also thought it aligned well with the fact that residential

1116
01:31:29,470 --> 01:31:35,690
developments can buy up to 10 parking spaces as part of the current parking in lieu program.

1117
01:31:36,830 --> 01:31:42,510
So we put it out there that commissioned a not agree and they included it up to five by

1118
01:31:42,510 --> 01:31:47,490
right. But when we first started our discussion a few council members wanted to revisit this topic.

1119
01:31:48,230 --> 01:31:52,590
So just looking forward as the council agree with keeping it as is or would you like to see it

1120
01:31:52,590 --> 01:31:56,290
to 10 multi-family units by right in the DT district.

1121
01:32:03,350 --> 01:32:05,470
Mr. Cummings, you look like here, there you go.

1122
01:32:05,790 --> 01:32:12,590
Yeah, I mean, I think that I'm comfortable going with the

1123
01:32:12,590 --> 01:32:17,230
staff's recommendation of 10 by right.

1124
01:32:18,210 --> 01:32:22,350
And then the minor special exception, I mean, to me, 40,

1125
01:32:22,750 --> 01:32:25,850
seems like a lot for a minor, just a minor special exception.

1126
01:32:25,850 --> 01:32:38,710
And I think go 10 by-right and then anything above 10, go through the whole process, we were

1127
01:32:38,710 --> 01:32:44,610
not talking about throughout the town, we're talking about in our downtown historic districts.

1128
01:32:45,730 --> 01:32:51,430
So I'm comfortable with if staff comfortable with 10 by-right and then anything above 10 could

1129
01:32:51,430 --> 01:32:53,470
be a special exception.

1130
01:32:54,690 --> 01:32:56,010
I don't know if anybody else has stopped.

1131
01:32:57,570 --> 01:32:59,530
Does a minor special exception clarify for me?

1132
01:32:59,610 --> 01:32:59,950
I can't remember.

1133
01:33:00,090 --> 01:33:01,250
Does that go before the public?

1134
01:33:01,450 --> 01:33:02,290
Does that have the public hearing?

1135
01:33:02,410 --> 01:33:02,750
Yes.

1136
01:33:03,030 --> 01:33:06,350
It just goes by the planning commission straight to Council.

1137
01:33:08,890 --> 01:33:14,390
I like your over 10 going to minor special exception.

1138
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:20,460
It is big number.

1139
01:33:25,140 --> 01:33:26,720
Oh, I'm sorry, Miss Nise.

1140
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:28,380
Thank you.

1141
01:33:28,540 --> 01:33:31,740
This is one of the ones that picked my interest as well,

1142
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:35,260
because staff recommendation was to go to ten,

1143
01:33:35,440 --> 01:33:37,060
which you just explained to the background.

1144
01:33:37,500 --> 01:33:38,140
But out of curiosity,

1145
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:40,420
what was the planning commission discussion?

1146
01:33:40,740 --> 01:33:41,380
Give me the highlight,

1147
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:43,540
because I know it was probably a long one.

1148
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:46,600
The majority of commissioners,

1149
01:33:47,920 --> 01:34:02,580
The same sentiment we've heard from some of the council members that it's downtown, it's the important historic resource, and they just didn't want to see additional by right residential development without that case by case review.

1150
01:34:04,460 --> 01:34:11,180
Is there that much left in the downtown district that we would

1151
01:34:13,550 --> 01:34:16,650
that this is going to come up with?

1152
01:34:16,650 --> 01:34:25,070
I think so, I think there's redevelopment projects that we've already heard the buzz on

1153
01:34:25,070 --> 01:34:31,670
that are hovering right around that five units by right, and then maybe an adjacent parcel

1154
01:34:31,670 --> 01:34:33,130
five units by right.

1155
01:34:35,250 --> 01:34:40,370
I'm struggling a little bit with this one, but I do agree with Councilmember Cummings that

1156
01:34:40,370 --> 01:34:46,290
I don't think necessarily my nurse special exception should even be part of this process.

1157
01:34:46,290 --> 01:34:53,010
like either by right up to whatever and then special exception so that it goes through the

1158
01:34:53,010 --> 01:34:57,630
entire planning commission process and the BAR and the council because if it is our

1159
01:34:57,630 --> 01:35:03,590
downtown district and it's that important then then it should have a lot of eyes on it.

1160
01:35:00,750 --> 01:35:08,410
That sure, you don't want it to be, if it's over 10, you don't want it to be a minor specific, 71 it to be a special.

1161
01:35:03,890 --> 01:35:04,490
So you're seeing.

1162
01:35:08,530 --> 01:35:11,650
Yeah, just what it counts of ever coming to the saying, just if it, you know.

1163
01:35:11,650 --> 01:35:14,470
So what you said? Okay, sorry. I understand that.

1164
01:35:14,670 --> 01:35:23,010
Okay. It's quite a big jump, right? And, you know, minor special exception goes to us and it goes through staff process and the public and everything.

1165
01:35:23,650 --> 01:35:27,650
But it's always nice to have extra subject matter expert, is something like that.

1166
01:35:27,650 --> 01:35:28,650
That's true.

1167
01:35:30,050 --> 01:35:31,010
Anyone else?

1168
01:35:31,310 --> 01:35:32,090
Mr. Kirkowski?

1169
01:35:33,870 --> 01:35:36,170
I was on an agree with all that.

1170
01:35:37,350 --> 01:35:38,530
No, I do agree.

1171
01:35:38,710 --> 01:35:44,710
I think the number 40 is jumps out, and it sounds like we're kind of on the same page, perhaps

1172
01:35:44,710 --> 01:35:45,650
up to 10 by right.

1173
01:35:45,750 --> 01:35:50,330
And then after that, let the planning commission review it and before it comes to us.

1174
01:35:52,540 --> 01:35:54,020
I struggle with the 10.

1175
01:35:54,440 --> 01:35:57,300
I think 10 is a lot to have by right.

1176
01:35:57,300 --> 01:36:05,240
You said we have parking in lieu for each ten spots, which is ridiculous that's another conversation that we'll have.

1177
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:12,520
We're having, we're having parking issues in the town, as always.

1178
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:25,560
And to add ten units by right without any, any input from the, from the council,

1179
01:36:27,700 --> 01:36:30,000
I don't think I can support that.

1180
01:36:30,100 --> 01:36:32,440
I think it's really need to say if I have five.

1181
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:38,020
It's reasonable amount, but when you, and there's so many places

1182
01:36:38,020 --> 01:36:42,260
that we could go to 10, and we're just allowing it.

1183
01:36:42,360 --> 01:36:45,340
If I write, I don't think that's what we should be doing.

1184
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:48,700
We need to look at how it's going to impact the downtown.

1185
01:36:49,060 --> 01:36:52,140
What is the implications for it?

1186
01:36:52,140 --> 01:36:53,040
Will it fit there?

1187
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:54,760
Does it make sense to go there?

1188
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:59,780
And so make it by right would eliminate any of that oversight.

1189
01:37:00,300 --> 01:37:06,040
So I would stay with the five, but I would most certainly agree

1190
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:11,380
with everyone that over 10, most certainly should go by special exception.

1191
01:37:13,260 --> 01:37:14,420
Mr. Wealth.

1192
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:18,820
You just shortcut what I was going to say.

1193
01:37:18,900 --> 01:37:20,760
So I'm going to support what you're suggesting.

1194
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:21,060
Okay.

1195
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:23,660
All right.

1196
01:37:24,900 --> 01:37:26,100
Any Mr. Steinberg?

1197
01:37:26,420 --> 01:37:27,380
Well, I just want to reiterate.

1198
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:32,680
I'm not advocating that we should plan less and other parts of town, but if we're going

1199
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,980
to plan more, then it should definitely be in the historic district.

1200
01:37:36,220 --> 01:37:40,620
I'm perfectly happy with the five by right, and then anything else would be accomplished

1201
01:37:40,620 --> 01:37:42,040
by special exception.

1202
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:47,540
If the plan commissioned the future council or this council would be a good idea.

1203
01:37:50,250 --> 01:37:50,490
Okay.

1204
01:37:50,490 --> 01:37:59,630
let me break it down. Okay, the first first one is, are there four people that would be in favor of keeping the requirement to five by rights?

1205
01:38:00,930 --> 01:38:05,510
And that was a heavy side, is that?

1206
01:38:09,110 --> 01:38:09,590
Sure.

1207
01:38:17,710 --> 01:38:23,210
are we discussing that anything over five is going to be going to full special exception?

1208
01:38:23,990 --> 01:38:25,590
I think that is important.

1209
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:30,050
No, over, good question.

1210
01:38:31,830 --> 01:38:34,170
Five, up to five is by rights.

1211
01:38:34,710 --> 01:38:38,730
Five to ten would be what is minor special exception.

1212
01:38:41,060 --> 01:38:43,580
So up to five is by right.

1213
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:46,240
Right now six to 40 is minor special exception.

1214
01:38:46,460 --> 01:38:50,140
I'm hearing maybe six to ten becomes minor special exception.

1215
01:38:50,540 --> 01:38:53,920
And then 11 or more is special exception.

1216
01:38:58,650 --> 01:39:03,410
Then yes, I would support five that's fine.

1217
01:39:03,410 --> 01:39:05,830
So there's four people who do that one, two, two, four.

1218
01:39:06,090 --> 01:39:06,790
Okay, five.

1219
01:39:09,170 --> 01:39:09,350
Okay.

1220
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:09,790
Um, okay.

1221
01:39:10,250 --> 01:39:11,110
You got that one.

1222
01:39:11,270 --> 01:39:11,470
Okay.

1223
01:39:11,710 --> 01:39:14,370
And is there anything else by that in that one?

1224
01:39:14,370 --> 01:39:15,310
No, that was it.

1225
01:39:17,070 --> 01:39:17,270
Okay.

1226
01:39:18,010 --> 01:39:19,350
Do we really have to be parking?

1227
01:39:23,180 --> 01:39:23,660
Okay.

1228
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:26,080
Well, I can breeze through this one.

1229
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:28,660
Down sound parking alternative.

1230
01:39:28,660 --> 01:39:35,520
So the majority of what you see on the screen is carried forward from the existing zoning ordinance.

1231
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:39,940
Do have a current payment in lieu of parking program.

1232
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:43,520
I put in there generally not available for residential projects.

1233
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,140
They can by the first 10 parking spaces.

1234
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:50,820
Existing non-residential buildings.

1235
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:53,800
This is the only change.

1236
01:39:54,380 --> 01:40:04,780
It used to be that they had to be within 500 feet of a municipal parking facility to have no additional parking when there was a non-residential reuse of an...

1237
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:09,780
Existing non-residential building. The rewrite contemplates our D.T. wide, so district wide, no additional parking

1238
01:40:09,780 --> 01:40:15,240
for non-residential reuse. And the reason staff got here and the commission got here is recall

1239
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:21,460
the council had this very discussion a few years back about should we go to a thousand, should

1240
01:40:21,460 --> 01:40:26,800
we go to 750, and at that time staff said, well, if we're going to go to a thousand, you might

1241
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:33,280
will just go district-wide. But there was no action from the council at that meeting, so we brought

1242
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:34,900
it back and included it in the draft.

1243
01:40:35,340 --> 01:40:35,920
Your fault.

1244
01:40:37,220 --> 01:40:37,520
Stas.

1245
01:40:39,540 --> 01:40:44,700
Non-residential building additions. Actually, that is a change as well, right, Mr. Watkins.

1246
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:49,860
We're asking for parking for a hundred percent of the addition area, and now, no, okay,

1247
01:40:50,060 --> 01:40:54,720
never mind. It is still parking for 50 percent of the addition area for non-residential

1248
01:40:54,720 --> 01:41:00,780
building additions. Offside parking agreement is a tool in the H1 overlay district,

1249
01:41:00,780 --> 01:41:04,720
Valle Parking for non-residential is another tool in the RH, which is residential

1250
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:11,000
historic and downtown. And then you're existing zero carry forward here for multi-family.

1251
01:41:11,220 --> 01:41:17,100
There is a slight discount for parking in the downtown versus other districts.

1252
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:21,280
So the question

1253
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:25,800
would be do you agree with these parking alternatives or are there alternatives you want to

1254
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:30,480
to a way with or amend in some shape way or fashion?

1255
01:41:32,870 --> 01:41:35,930
Can we raise the parking in Lou to a godly amount?

1256
01:41:37,490 --> 01:41:39,510
We could take that direction and come back

1257
01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:40,750
with a separate item.

1258
01:41:41,510 --> 01:41:43,290
I have a question about that, actually.

1259
01:41:44,010 --> 01:41:47,430
So you can buy up to 10 right now,

1260
01:41:47,630 --> 01:41:48,970
but what if you only build 10,

1261
01:41:49,050 --> 01:41:50,770
then you're not required any barking?

1262
01:41:53,250 --> 01:41:53,710
That's right.

1263
01:41:54,690 --> 01:41:54,930
Yeah.

1264
01:41:55,830 --> 01:41:56,110
Wow.

1265
01:41:57,470 --> 01:42:01,610
Okay. Thank you. Mr. Wilt.

1266
01:42:01,950 --> 01:42:03,130
That was my question.

1267
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:12,080
So, so, um, and that's the way it is now.

1268
01:42:13,420 --> 01:42:13,720
Mr. Wilt.

1269
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:15,300
You can buy 10 spaces.

1270
01:42:15,700 --> 01:42:20,300
Yes. If you have a 10 unit project, you can buy 10 parking spaces.

1271
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:24,400
You're required to buy up to 10 if you can't provide any onsite.

1272
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:36,220
President, you know, it doesn't provide any parking, and so, and it's most certainly not paying for any garage with what we're charging.

1273
01:42:38,260 --> 01:42:41,540
So, how does that alleviate the problem?

1274
01:42:43,500 --> 01:42:46,440
Well, I sent out an email a few weeks back.

1275
01:42:46,440 --> 01:42:51,520
I believe the parking in Lou, the parking fund is upwards around $700,000.

1276
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:55,620
So it has been accruing over time.

1277
01:42:55,700 --> 01:42:59,080
How long has it taken us to get to $700,000?

1278
01:42:59,300 --> 01:43:00,540
I don't know.

1279
01:43:00,580 --> 01:43:03,280
I can tell you, $25, 30 years.

1280
01:43:04,980 --> 01:43:07,740
There are some funds there, but you're right.

1281
01:43:07,980 --> 01:43:09,560
It will not build you a parking garage.

1282
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:14,000
So I don't understand why that's even a consideration anymore.

1283
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:18,200
Parking has become such a huge problem.

1284
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:22,520
and we have so many neighborhoods now that have permit parking because parking is such a big problem.

1285
01:43:24,300 --> 01:43:30,020
And then we're going to let people have 10 residential units and not make them a part of them.

1286
01:43:30,020 --> 01:43:31,720
That doesn't make any sense to me.

1287
01:43:35,150 --> 01:43:36,110
Anyone else?

1288
01:43:36,510 --> 01:43:37,350
Yes, Mr. Kerkowski.

1289
01:43:38,250 --> 01:43:43,050
Can you explain generally not available a little bit better?

1290
01:43:43,350 --> 01:43:43,650
Sure.

1291
01:43:44,430 --> 01:43:46,510
It's just taken by the first 10. That's it.

1292
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:47,970
That's all it's referencing.

1293
01:43:47,970 --> 01:43:56,070
Okay, so again, you built a well now that we just figured five and ten mean different things.

1294
01:43:56,490 --> 01:43:58,390
Well, no, that's so that's H1 only.

1295
01:43:59,290 --> 01:44:00,250
Okay, so a little different.

1296
01:44:00,690 --> 01:44:01,090
All right.

1297
01:44:01,930 --> 01:44:06,950
Okay, so we've established you can build a 10 unit project and just not provide parking,

1298
01:44:07,090 --> 01:44:11,730
which probably is a little unlikely, but maybe not entirely out of the picture.

1299
01:44:11,730 --> 01:44:21,670
But you buy parking in Liu for a cheap amount, because what I think we're determining is pretty

1300
01:44:21,670 --> 01:44:22,870
discounted amount.

1301
01:44:24,590 --> 01:44:29,750
But these people are parking somewhere, and so they're clogging street parking that isn't

1302
01:44:29,750 --> 01:44:30,070
permanent.

1303
01:44:30,510 --> 01:44:33,550
That kind of how it's going to work out if we don't address it.

1304
01:44:35,310 --> 01:44:46,330
So the parking in Lou Fee is around $8,000, 8502, a few years back in one of our discussions

1305
01:44:46,330 --> 01:44:50,750
around downtown parking the staff brought forward an item and recommended doubling it

1306
01:44:50,750 --> 01:44:54,570
at a very, very least in the council did not go for it.

1307
01:44:54,970 --> 01:45:00,130
We also brought forth statistics that in a structured parking garage, you're going to be paying

1308
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:11,000
Of discussing, increasing that fee, but it doesn't reside in the zoning ordinance. So that's a separate resolution, separate item that we could come back to the council.

1309
01:45:00,130 --> 01:45:01,870
around 28,000 a space.

1310
01:45:02,690 --> 01:45:04,530
So I think staff is supportive.

1311
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:16,190
That in town code? It's a resolution.

1312
01:45:16,210 --> 01:45:16,990
It should be a resolution.

1313
01:45:17,850 --> 01:45:22,410
Okay, I mean, I would certainly like, I mean, it sounds like we're going to have to read address it.

1314
01:45:22,610 --> 01:45:29,930
I don't know. I don't want to make a motion to say we should double it or anything, but I think there's an appetite to bring that back.

1315
01:45:30,470 --> 01:45:36,950
to see if 15, 20, I don't know what it is, but I agree we do need at least explore it

1316
01:45:37,930 --> 01:45:42,510
since it's been explored once and no actually was taken. I think we should definitely look at that.

1317
01:45:42,510 --> 01:45:48,010
That would be interested in discussing payment and loop parking at a future meeting.

1318
01:45:48,850 --> 01:45:49,030
Okay.

1319
01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:51,530
We can bring that back. Thank you.

1320
01:45:52,210 --> 01:45:56,430
To the second part of your question, it's hard to speculate where people are going to park.

1321
01:45:56,430 --> 01:46:07,230
I mean the downtown is a metropolitan environment and they might park in the garages, they might park on street parking, they might not have a car.

1322
01:46:08,430 --> 01:46:17,930
And I think the idea again is downtown flexibility, alternatives to encourage redevelopment and investment.

1323
01:46:18,450 --> 01:46:25,490
And we've talked about the high cost of free parking and some of that space might be better utilized for a different purpose.

1324
01:46:27,630 --> 01:46:35,290
I'm sorry, I promise I was listening, but I did not listen after the payments and living.

1325
01:46:38,230 --> 01:46:42,070
Did you say that these all just mirror what we have currently?

1326
01:46:42,490 --> 01:46:44,850
The exception of number two on the screen.

1327
01:46:44,850 --> 01:46:45,090
Okay.

1328
01:46:46,670 --> 01:46:55,890
That one, there is a code provision that allows no additional parking for non-residential reuse.

1329
01:46:55,890 --> 01:47:02,510
but the existing non-residential building that's being occupied has to be within 500 feet of

1330
01:47:02,510 --> 01:47:09,410
a municipal parking facility and we are proposing scrubbing that 500 foot rule and just going

1331
01:47:09,410 --> 01:47:10,570
district wide.

1332
01:47:13,380 --> 01:47:21,440
Mr. Will? Yeah. So we just discussed further discussions on the parking

1333
01:47:21,440 --> 01:47:31,100
low, but I wanted to inquire further on the discussion point about the up to 10 parking spaces

1334
01:47:31,100 --> 01:47:40,560
can be purchased and then the smaller developments, if we say the 5 or 10, is there maybe

1335
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:45,700
some logic where we can say rather than you can just buy up to 10, you could buy a percentage

1336
01:47:45,700 --> 01:47:50,000
of your requirement up to a maximum of 10.

1337
01:47:50,820 --> 01:47:55,120
So that one of these proposed 5 or 10 residential projects

1338
01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:59,620
couldn't simply just buy themselves out of all parking entirely.

1339
01:48:03,530 --> 01:48:06,270
Would there be some sense to that from your professional point of view?

1340
01:48:06,770 --> 01:48:09,150
I think there are going to be instances where you have a

1341
01:48:09,150 --> 01:48:13,210
adaptive reuse of existing structures that have no parking on them whatsoever.

1342
01:48:13,210 --> 01:48:24,530
So, I think in part this provision recognize that existing condition and recognizes that buildings in the historic district can have multiple lives over their history.

1343
01:48:27,130 --> 01:48:28,910
So then could we do a

1344
01:48:29,650 --> 01:48:34,570
What I suggest is by right and in that case that would go through a special exception.

1345
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:51,360
So by right five units, they could buy up to five parking spaces and then you're saying anything more than

1346
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:57,940
And now I'm suggesting something by right you can buy 10% of your parking requirement, up

1347
01:48:57,940 --> 01:49:00,960
to a maximum of 10 spots, for example.

1348
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:06,000
If you want to deviate from that to be a special exception, on a case by case.

1349
01:49:07,660 --> 01:49:15,220
I think if you're above the by rights scenario, the ordinance is constructed such that you

1350
01:49:15,220 --> 01:49:20,220
can modify most of the use of performance standards and if it hasn't, then maybe that's

1351
01:49:20,220 --> 01:49:26,980
tweak that we need to make specifically for the downtown. Is that anything more than five you

1352
01:49:26,980 --> 01:49:29,420
would examine everything suit the nuts,

1353
01:49:32,100 --> 01:49:35,500
parking, building height, density, okay. I see it's

1354
01:49:35,500 --> 01:49:37,760
somewhat we just did in terms of.

1355
01:49:42,390 --> 01:49:47,990
So if someone wanted to build a six residential development,

1356
01:49:49,190 --> 01:49:56,230
that would be a special exception and as part of that, we would look at parking. So they couldn't

1357
01:49:56,230 --> 01:49:59,750
and automatically, simply buy out the parking requirements.

1358
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:10,920
The council could say, no, we want the parking onsite. Okay. Okay. So then the only gap here might be the up to five and that would be at risk.

1359
01:50:01,350 --> 01:50:01,810
Is that the case?

1360
01:50:01,870 --> 01:50:04,630
It would be part of their special exception proposal, perhaps?

1361
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:16,160
That would align with the action or the recommendation you just made. Okay.

1362
01:50:16,440 --> 01:50:18,460
Understood. Thank you.

1363
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:28,000
Okay. Then you're asking, does the council agree with the downtown parking alternatives? Are there four people that agree with the, what's been suggested here?

1364
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:31,200
Are there four people?

1365
01:50:33,290 --> 01:50:33,670
This part.

1366
01:50:33,990 --> 01:50:37,070
Do we agree with all of that as alternatives?

1367
01:50:41,740 --> 01:50:44,820
Yes, because if we say we agree to all that,

1368
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:47,680
aren't we agreeing to 10 pay and lose spots?

1369
01:50:48,060 --> 01:50:48,300
Yes.

1370
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:51,180
So we would want to pull a number one off, that's right.

1371
01:50:52,620 --> 01:50:53,540
Just making sure.

1372
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:55,720
So two, three, four, five.

1373
01:50:58,480 --> 01:51:00,140
Do we have four people that are willing

1374
01:51:00,140 --> 01:51:01,600
to accept two, three, four, five?

1375
01:51:03,080 --> 01:51:03,800
That's the question.

1376
01:51:04,380 --> 01:51:04,640
Yes, sir.

1377
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:10,280
Sorry, why do we why do planners do this? Like what's a half a space?

1378
01:51:11,640 --> 01:51:16,460
Like I don't I we don't have to get into it, but I'm just I'm sure try to be funny, but also

1379
01:51:16,980 --> 01:51:21,220
Even the whole idea of this is the streamlined and make things easier for people to understand

1380
01:51:21,220 --> 01:51:23,220
the hexa half a space

1381
01:51:24,540 --> 01:51:28,160
These are that's in multi-family developments. So

1382
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:30,280
Basically,

1383
01:51:32,500 --> 01:51:38,760
the concept is, as you get more dense in the multifamily apartment, you don't need

1384
01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:45,560
necessarily a parking spot for every single bedroom, or else you've heard from developers

1385
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:49,240
and others that parking drives design, right?

1386
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:53,820
So the idea is, as you get more dense, you don't need to park every single bedroom.

1387
01:51:53,820 --> 01:51:58,620
So you start to get a little bit of relief that the denser you go.

1388
01:51:58,620 --> 01:52:03,720
Well, hopefully there's there's public transportation, which we don't have much of.

1389
01:52:05,140 --> 01:52:11,580
I mean, that's where like that's my main concern on all of this is again, this is a document

1390
01:52:11,580 --> 01:52:19,660
for the future and we, you know, does Section 16-3, which is the parking section, you don't

1391
01:52:19,660 --> 01:52:20,440
have to go to it.

1392
01:52:20,440 --> 01:52:25,200
Does that provide opportunities to a just parking?

1393
01:52:25,860 --> 01:52:29,500
And maybe not the downtown, but across the town?

1394
01:52:30,860 --> 01:52:35,760
Yes, there are some parking reduction scenarios.

1395
01:52:35,900 --> 01:52:40,720
We don't know what cars will look like in 15 years.

1396
01:52:41,980 --> 01:52:44,320
With AI, we all could be gone anyway, it doesn't matter.

1397
01:52:45,900 --> 01:53:12,820
Yeah, right, but so that's my, I mean, I hear what everyone's saying and I understand if you look at all of these, if you look at every one of these issues through the problems that they, one of us and all of us have experienced today or yesterday or last weekend or a month ago, then parking is an issue, but my concern is just that we're, we can't, we shouldn't be making decisions on a zoning ordinance for today.

1398
01:53:12,820 --> 01:53:18,980
And we need to be thinking about the future and adaptive reuse and not just of buildings,

1399
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:20,540
but of parking, et cetera.

1400
01:53:21,220 --> 01:53:27,600
And I just feel like we're pigeonholing all of these decisions into today versus the future.

1401
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:35,800
So, just as a quick response, it might feel like that as we talk about the downtown district,

1402
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:41,740
because there's a lot of care and thinking that has gone into these standards.

1403
01:53:41,740 --> 01:54:07,180
And it's working, so we're carrying those forward, but you might feel a little bit differently as we expand and look at the entire parking section, where we have overhauled those parking ratios based on the ITE parking generation manual, which is, you know, your international transportation engineers, where we are trying to right size the parking requirements based on, you know, future projections and future uses.

1404
01:54:11,770 --> 01:54:12,210
Okay.

1405
01:54:14,810 --> 01:54:15,830
So where are we?

1406
01:54:16,990 --> 01:54:21,190
Did we get the council agree with the three, two, three, four, five?

1407
01:54:21,310 --> 01:54:22,470
We did that already, right?

1408
01:54:22,790 --> 01:54:24,850
I didn't see the majority.

1409
01:54:25,150 --> 01:54:25,450
Okay.

1410
01:54:25,790 --> 01:54:27,410
All right. Great.

1411
01:54:27,610 --> 01:54:29,250
So now we have to go back to number one,

1412
01:54:29,590 --> 01:54:31,750
which we want to change to five.

1413
01:54:35,900 --> 01:54:37,360
No, that's I'm looking at the wrong one.

1414
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:46,300
That's right. Yeah, so it would be for residential projects up to five spaces.

1415
01:54:46,300 --> 01:54:49,540
can be purchased is what I believe I heard.

1416
01:54:52,530 --> 01:54:58,170
All right, my people, yeah, that's another, okay.

1417
01:54:59,270 --> 01:55:04,410
So yeah, it isn't that we're just doing it to match what we just talked about on the previous slide.

1418
01:55:11,660 --> 01:55:18,700
We're just trying to clean up the difference from the 5 to 10, which we kind of did, please. Okay, thank you.

1419
01:55:22,760 --> 01:55:23,120
All

1420
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:32,200
right. Madam Mayor, I just wanted to check in with you again on the timing my clock is flashing.

1421
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:33,620
It is flashing,

1422
01:55:36,120 --> 01:55:43,440
we do have a fair amount still, do we want to, we have a number of days

1423
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:49,360
that we can continue on, we don't have to do everything tonight, do we want to stop it here,

1424
01:55:49,460 --> 01:55:50,660
do we want to keep going?

1425
01:55:55,800 --> 01:55:59,100
How do I hate you people? No, what do you do?

1426
01:55:59,100 --> 01:55:59,320
Okay.

1427
01:56:00,020 --> 01:56:00,280
Yeah.

1428
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:03,120
All right.

1429
01:56:04,180 --> 01:56:04,720
Move on.

1430
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:05,240
Okay.

1431
01:56:08,370 --> 01:56:08,590
All right.

1432
01:56:08,630 --> 01:56:10,790
The next topic is fence height.

1433
01:56:11,790 --> 01:56:11,990
Yeah.

1434
01:56:12,470 --> 01:56:13,650
I've given up on him.

1435
01:56:13,750 --> 01:56:15,230
We may as well just do away with the time.

1436
01:56:17,310 --> 01:56:17,870
Okay.

1437
01:56:17,910 --> 01:56:27,330
So this one was put out for discussion by Mayor Burke to re-examine our fence height regulations

1438
01:56:27,330 --> 01:56:29,530
in the residential historic district.

1439
01:56:30,590 --> 01:56:34,370
So the zoning on its rewrite carries forward,

1440
01:56:34,670 --> 01:56:36,850
what we have now, and that is,

1441
01:56:37,030 --> 01:56:42,530
fences are a max 42 inches within the front

1442
01:56:42,530 --> 01:56:43,990
or street side setbacks.

1443
01:56:43,990 --> 01:56:45,490
So that would be, you know,

1444
01:56:45,550 --> 01:56:48,750
you're kind of public facing property lines.

1445
01:56:49,450 --> 01:56:52,330
And then outside of those front or street side setbacks,

1446
01:56:52,450 --> 01:56:53,790
they can go up to seven feet.

1447
01:56:54,450 --> 01:56:58,470
There is a provision that if the residential parcel

1448
01:56:58,470 --> 01:57:04,610
is a budding, a non-residential or mixed-use district the fence can be increased to eight feet.

1449
01:57:05,610 --> 01:57:17,570
And the Board of Architectural Review does have the ability to massage setbacks which could indirectly affect that placement of the fence and the height relative to the street.

1450
01:57:18,930 --> 01:57:23,310
And I wouldn't want to see a fence cropped it to eight feet.

1451
01:57:23,630 --> 01:57:33,730
My issue is the side yard when you're on a corner, and you got little kids or dog,

1452
01:57:34,890 --> 01:57:40,510
and you got a lot of people walking by your place, and you're on the side.

1453
01:57:41,450 --> 01:57:43,110
Right now it has to be six feet.

1454
01:57:43,750 --> 01:57:50,390
If it's a street side, it's got to be 42 inches if you're in the street side set back.

1455
01:57:50,390 --> 01:57:52,690
It's a 42 inches of how many feet?

1456
01:57:53,110 --> 01:57:57,150
Well, it's about three and a half feet.

1457
01:57:57,190 --> 01:57:57,990
Three and a half feet.

1458
01:57:59,470 --> 01:58:02,170
And the idea is, you know, it keeps the neighborhoods open.

1459
01:58:02,730 --> 01:58:08,190
It keeps the visibility triangle open for vehicles and folks when they're coming up on corner lots.

1460
01:58:12,540 --> 01:58:21,620
But this can go before the B-A-R, and it can be adjudicated there, so determined that the height

1461
01:58:21,620 --> 01:58:26,760
is an important component for safety or whatever reason.

1462
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:28,800
I don't take that one.

1463
01:58:31,620 --> 01:58:32,700
I think it's too full.

1464
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:41,320
One is the aesthetic, and then what is, you know, screening your backyard, I guess, so which

1465
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:44,060
one, do you value more?

1466
01:58:45,180 --> 01:58:49,260
All right, I'm not going to move on to this one.

1467
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:51,960
I'm not going to push that one.

1468
01:58:59,520 --> 01:58:59,720
Sorry.

1469
01:59:00,120 --> 01:59:01,140
Now we're on to the zoning map.

1470
01:59:01,300 --> 01:59:05,840
So the zoning map, we talked about it back on July 13,

1471
01:59:06,660 --> 01:59:12,800
2026, and wanted to refocus in on changes.

1472
01:59:13,780 --> 01:59:16,340
So in that memo from July 13,

1473
01:59:16,340 --> 01:59:22,960
2020-26. We highlighted that we consolidated some zoning districts, went from 24 to 15. We eliminated

1474
01:59:22,960 --> 01:59:27,760
planned development districts. We added new zoning districts, commercial neighborhood, innovation

1475
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:34,960
center, and open space, and parks. But then we also had some high-level changes. So I'm going

1476
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:42,820
to go ahead and switch over to the map. Maybe the town clerk could help me with that. Thank you.

1477
01:59:46,850 --> 01:59:53,990
Okay. Great. That's okay. Perfect. So recall that we were talking about the

1478
01:59:53,990 --> 01:59:59,090
Crescent District. So one change we just wanted to make sure the council was fully aware of

1479
01:59:59,090 --> 02:00:04,810
is the Crescent District. It got a little bit smaller, essentially.

1480
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:18,880
Let's go out here and encompass beyond plaza to the east on, let's go with blue.

1481
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:26,760
So, roughly,

1482
02:00:34,460 --> 02:00:35,160
the

1483
02:00:35,160 --> 02:00:40,860
more so the Crescent District Master plan was reduced and the Council approved that and so you

1484
02:00:40,860 --> 02:00:47,980
see a corresponding change on the proposed zoning map. So the Crescent District now does not

1485
02:00:47,980 --> 02:00:52,140
extend past Plaza. It's more or less here.

1486
02:00:57,500 --> 02:01:03,280
Something like that. Okay. The other change. So this

1487
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:13,220
This change also affected over here just past King Street and that is on the first topic for discussion which is the Safeways site.

1488
02:01:14,260 --> 02:01:23,080
So, the Safeways site used to be in the Crescent Design District, but we took it out.

1489
02:01:23,420 --> 02:01:27,280
And so the boundary of the Crescent Design District stops here.

1490
02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:34,440
But because we took, say, if we out of the crescent design district, we had to come up with a base zoning district designation,

1491
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:39,900
we went with mixed use to stay compatible with the crescent district across the street.

1492
02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:42,800
And so that's where all pause real quick.

1493
02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:48,200
And I have another map in the slide here that's a little bit of a zoomed in version.

1494
02:01:48,760 --> 02:01:50,360
So let's go back to the PowerPoint real quick.

1495
02:01:50,360 --> 02:01:51,580
That's not zoomed in.

1496
02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:53,440
Yes, sorry, here you go.

1497
02:01:54,680 --> 02:02:01,940
So, the question was, is mixed use the appropriate designation for this, say, voice, say?

1498
02:02:02,380 --> 02:02:08,840
Okay, and I'll start this one because, to be transparent, I live, we're behind, say,

1499
02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:09,880
I understand.

1500
02:02:10,620 --> 02:02:14,240
So, we are, my neighborhood is very interested in this particular project.

1501
02:02:15,720 --> 02:02:20,440
By taking it out of the crescent district and putting it in,

1502
02:02:23,860 --> 02:02:27,560
Did what what implication did it have for the height of the buildings?

1503
02:02:27,980 --> 02:02:28,540
Sure.

1504
02:02:29,220 --> 02:02:35,440
So, if it had stayed in Crescent District Activity Center, which is what you see.

1505
02:02:36,460 --> 02:02:41,160
Well, this is really planned activity center here, but this is their Virginia village.

1506
02:02:41,880 --> 02:02:49,700
I believe the height in Crescent District Activity Center is up to, I believe it's 70, but

1507
02:02:49,700 --> 02:02:50,760
let me go.

1508
02:02:52,740 --> 02:02:53,320
Is it 65?

1509
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:54,400
Okay.

1510
02:02:54,420 --> 02:02:56,300
Let me just go there real quick.

1511
02:02:56,620 --> 02:03:00,300
We grab the draft, go back to that.

1512
02:03:02,320 --> 02:03:05,360
And by the way, Safeway Center is not interested in moving at this point.

1513
02:03:05,560 --> 02:03:05,940
We're doing it.

1514
02:03:07,280 --> 02:03:07,800
I'm sorry.

1515
02:03:08,060 --> 02:03:08,200
I'm sorry.

1516
02:03:08,200 --> 02:03:08,260
I'm sorry.

1517
02:03:08,260 --> 02:03:11,600
of having a heart, there we go. Thank you. All right.

1518
02:03:13,990 --> 02:03:16,330
Yeah, let's go to the activity center

1519
02:03:16,330 --> 02:03:24,630
just so we can make sure we're saying the right thing. So we'll go to zoning districts. We'll

1520
02:03:24,630 --> 02:03:35,480
go to special purpose. I'm sorry, non-residential. Chris and district and activity center. So

1521
02:03:35,480 --> 02:03:40,540
If it stayed in the crescent district, we're looking at

1522
02:03:43,480 --> 02:03:45,660
max building height of 70 feet.

1523
02:03:46,740 --> 02:03:56,400
So the mixed use district, which is what staff is recommending, we're looking at building

1524
02:03:56,400 --> 02:04:01,540
height of 60 feet, but it's 45 feet if you're adjacent to a residential neighborhood.

1525
02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:04,060
They're right on top of a residential neighborhood.

1526
02:04:04,060 --> 02:04:06,640
Right, so it would be 45 feet in that instance.

1527
02:04:08,500 --> 02:04:09,340
All right.

1528
02:04:15,300 --> 02:04:17,040
Does anyone else have any questions about this?

1529
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:22,780
What are there any other implications

1530
02:04:23,300 --> 02:04:26,540
differences from the crescent district to multi-use?

1531
02:04:28,220 --> 02:04:30,860
Yeah, so again, the crescent district activity center district

1532
02:04:30,860 --> 02:04:33,680
is really where you want to see the densest

1533
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:36,860
and most walkable and there's,

1534
02:04:37,480 --> 02:04:40,700
it's going to be more intense than the mixed-use district

1535
02:04:40,700 --> 02:04:47,740
in terms of the types of things that might be concerning for an existing residential network.

1536
02:04:49,580 --> 02:04:55,580
I have to chuckle when you say walkable because I walk down town a lot but very few of my neighbors

1537
02:04:55,580 --> 02:05:00,700
doing me before. So anyway, okay, thank you. I appreciate you answering those questions.

1538
02:05:01,140 --> 02:05:04,800
Yeah. Okay, so we'll leave.

1539
02:05:01,280 --> 02:05:06,320
And we'll go back to the map. All right, so some other changes.

1540
02:05:15,070 --> 02:05:21,950
Okay, so we also now all the school sites on the map are designated as government center.

1541
02:05:22,110 --> 02:05:34,090
They used to be in residential zoning districts, so there you can see county high school is blue and and

1542
02:05:34,090 --> 02:05:37,870
park sites as open space in parks, they used to be in residential

1543
02:05:37,870 --> 02:05:42,070
destinations or otherwise so that will help protect the parks long-term and

1544
02:05:42,550 --> 02:05:47,890
then there's certain zoning designations that have been changed based on

1545
02:05:47,890 --> 02:05:53,870
town plan guidance and so I just wanted to highlight those. The first is the old

1546
02:05:53,870 --> 02:06:03,270
Walmart site and joining parcels down the bypass so it's these right here because

1547
02:06:03,270 --> 02:06:10,550
in your town plan. Those areas designated as mixed use retrofit when it comes to land use

1548
02:06:10,550 --> 02:06:20,230
initiative policy. The zoning proposed in the map is innovation center. That is the best fit for,

1549
02:06:20,230 --> 02:06:26,410
I'm sorry, mixed use, mixed use district is the best fit for that mixed use retrofit. So that's one

1550
02:06:26,410 --> 02:06:32,830
change. The other changes we wanted to highlight for council is the

1551
02:06:35,780 --> 02:06:43,020
mentions area. It's also been referred to as the Leesburg Gateway. It's also been

1552
02:06:43,020 --> 02:06:48,020
referred to as forced DA Stift Tongue area, but essentially we're talking about

1553
02:06:48,020 --> 02:06:49,620
all these parcels in here.

1554
02:06:51,840 --> 02:06:54,840
Again, the Town Plan Landius Initiative map

1555
02:06:54,840 --> 02:07:02,380
designates this area as Innovations Center from a policy standpoint. So we use that as our guiding

1556
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:08,800
Direction and mapped these parcels in here to Innovations Center.

1557
02:07:12,290 --> 02:07:12,290
Okay.

1558
02:07:13,790 --> 02:07:16,090
Village at Leedsburg. That's another one.

1559
02:07:18,010 --> 02:07:20,050
Those are now

1560
02:07:20,050 --> 02:07:22,330
maps to

1561
02:07:22,330 --> 02:07:26,250
mixed use. However, I wanted to just pause there.

1562
02:07:27,270 --> 02:07:34,310
and note that the base zoning district does not supersede any rezoning or existing

1563
02:07:34,310 --> 02:07:41,930
proffers. So for about 75% of the town you've got proffers that designate the zoning for

1564
02:07:41,930 --> 02:07:47,810
those parcels that have proffers on them. So if in the future village at least we're wanted

1565
02:07:47,810 --> 02:07:51,210
to take advantage of the new mixed use district it would be rezoning.

1566
02:07:55,810 --> 02:08:01,090
And then the other one I

1567
02:08:01,090 --> 02:08:06,370
At one, for a long time, was designated B1, which is downtown,

1568
02:08:06,810 --> 02:08:08,290
but it's not located downtown.

1569
02:08:09,190 --> 02:08:14,670
And so we went ahead and made that over here, commercial neighborhood.

1570
02:08:15,230 --> 02:08:16,550
But again, it's got Prophors.

1571
02:08:16,890 --> 02:08:19,650
It's got a rezoning, which governs the land.

1572
02:08:28,160 --> 02:08:32,020
The last part of the zoning map revision exercise

1573
02:08:33,380 --> 02:08:36,820
was, you know, per our council endorsed project plan.

1574
02:08:36,820 --> 02:08:39,600
We were tasked with modernizing the zoning code.

1575
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:44,980
So we wanted to find places where the zoning map did not align with parcel boundaries.

1576
02:08:45,740 --> 02:08:48,360
And for the most part, it was just minor irregularities.

1577
02:08:48,800 --> 02:08:53,760
And we fixed those, but there was one that we just wanted to put in front of the council

1578
02:08:53,760 --> 02:09:02,820
because there has been some debate amongst residents and neighbors of this one as to what to do about it.

1579
02:09:02,820 --> 02:09:05,800
And we are not advocating changing it.

1580
02:09:05,880 --> 02:09:11,340
We just wanted to reaffirm that we have got the map correct with the council.

1581
02:09:11,440 --> 02:09:21,440
So this is downtown and it is a parcel that is on 19 North King Street.

1582
02:09:21,500 --> 02:09:25,720
And I just wanted to note publicly that there was an error in the staff report.

1583
02:09:25,800 --> 02:09:31,040
We referred to this parcel as the parcel occupied by light flip, but that is incorrect.

1584
02:09:31,040 --> 02:09:36,460
And so my apologies wanted to clear up the record that it is actually owned by Fiona

1585
02:09:36,460 --> 02:09:45,420
Investments and not the folks that owned nothing to do nothing to do with it. So I was our fault. Okay, so let me just get there

1586
02:09:47,460 --> 02:09:49,360
My in the right place where am I

1587
02:09:51,180 --> 02:09:56,370
Let me zoom out. I can't see where I am

1588
02:09:57,310 --> 02:10:02,140
Okay, hang on pan West got it

1589
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:04,330
There it is, got it. Come on, baby.

1590
02:10:02,140 --> 02:10:03,140
Okay.

1591
02:10:09,870 --> 02:10:10,050
Okay.

1592
02:10:13,450 --> 02:10:16,430
All right, here we go. Oh, you know what? I have a zoom in on this anyways.

1593
02:10:16,990 --> 02:10:22,610
Well, it's probably my self, but anyways, here's the zoom out version, but let's go back to the power point,

1594
02:10:23,230 --> 02:10:26,770
and I'll show you what we're exactly what we're talking about here. So,

1595
02:10:27,270 --> 02:10:38,190
you can see this rectangle here is residential historic, the rest of the parcel is downtown.

1596
02:10:38,830 --> 02:10:43,430
It's a split zoning situation, doesn't follow parcel lines.

1597
02:10:43,890 --> 02:10:45,930
Again, staff is not advocating a change.

1598
02:10:46,310 --> 02:10:50,990
Just wanted to hear from the council on the record that that is your intent.

1599
02:10:51,130 --> 02:10:54,750
When we looked at the previous historical record on this,

1600
02:10:54,870 --> 02:10:57,790
it was inconclusive, which is why we wanted to just reaffirm.

1601
02:11:00,330 --> 02:11:00,510
Well,

1602
02:11:03,090 --> 02:11:08,330
that particular property has had that that's been there for many, many, many years.

1603
02:11:10,490 --> 02:11:16,870
And it is part of what makes, it is a protection for that particular neighborhood.

1604
02:11:19,450 --> 02:11:24,270
And I don't think we should be changing that to a company, a development that's already

1605
02:11:24,270 --> 02:11:27,130
been approved that didn't need that spot.

1606
02:11:28,310 --> 02:11:30,830
So I would be in favor of changing that at all.

1607
02:11:32,450 --> 02:11:32,490
Okay.

1608
02:11:32,650 --> 02:11:32,950
70.

1609
02:11:34,250 --> 02:11:35,370
Comments on that?

1610
02:11:35,550 --> 02:11:35,730
Yes, sir?

1611
02:11:35,730 --> 02:11:45,950
I just am curious what, so what we're looking at now is the current zoning it is the current with the new district names.

1612
02:11:46,290 --> 02:11:50,570
Okay, but essentially it's the same configuration as it's been as the mayor said for many years.

1613
02:11:50,910 --> 02:11:56,250
Right. And so this is so, and I apologize for not following.

1614
02:11:58,130 --> 02:12:08,970
You're with the new names, does it change any of the buy right availability or does it change

1615
02:12:08,970 --> 02:12:14,070
any of the development opportunity there or prohibit any of the opportunity that's already

1616
02:12:14,070 --> 02:12:14,730
been approved?

1617
02:12:16,090 --> 02:12:22,470
So the residential historic RHD is largely unchanged in the new zoning ordinance.

1618
02:12:22,690 --> 02:12:24,310
It's just labeled our H now.

1619
02:12:24,310 --> 02:12:31,530
Okay. So that would mean that the redevelopment potential of this

1620
02:12:32,570 --> 02:12:37,850
rectangle is is kind of limited to what you see on Cornwall Street in the yellow as well.

1621
02:12:40,010 --> 02:12:47,690
You're I guess I'm just want to make sure I'm clear. Like we're just reaffirming that we keep it like we see it

1622
02:12:49,450 --> 02:12:58,750
not to try to bring the little box within the red into all red, or into all yellow, whatever.

1623
02:12:58,750 --> 02:12:59,090
Correct.

1624
02:12:59,270 --> 02:13:01,750
Allers are easier to understand than this.

1625
02:13:02,430 --> 02:13:02,630
Okay.

1626
02:13:03,170 --> 02:13:03,990
Thank you.

1627
02:13:06,530 --> 02:13:06,790
Okay.

1628
02:13:07,070 --> 02:13:08,710
So those were the map changes.

1629
02:13:12,630 --> 02:13:14,610
Madam Mayor, if I can just get something on the record.

1630
02:13:15,010 --> 02:13:17,730
So when we go to a minister of the map,

1631
02:13:17,730 --> 02:13:33,550
Again, what the direction the council gave to us was to align it with parcel lines, and this instance, would you agree that the intent of your action to maintain the district is to extend the existing parcel lines so that they intersect?

1632
02:13:34,890 --> 02:13:35,970
What do you mean? I don't understand.

1633
02:13:36,010 --> 02:13:38,390
If you were to take the north-sam parcel line.

1634
02:13:39,350 --> 02:13:43,110
No, I think we're saying leave along. Leave it the way it is.

1635
02:13:44,270 --> 02:13:48,430
They're affirming the zoning boundary does not need to line up with the parcel boundary.

1636
02:13:53,380 --> 02:13:59,220
So it's your intent that this zoning district line continues in that direction to that point.

1637
02:13:59,800 --> 02:14:06,700
And that this parcel line DVA, these are not survey drawings.

1638
02:14:07,940 --> 02:14:12,100
So I'm in the issue here is that if you go back in time,

1639
02:14:12,100 --> 02:14:18,940
I'm trust me I've gone all the way back to the 72 ordinance and the parcel lines that we're used back in the day

1640
02:14:18,940 --> 02:14:23,580
We're never surveyed drawing so there's no meets and bounds description for any of the parcels

1641
02:14:24,300 --> 02:14:29,960
So to help clean the record it would be nice to know exactly what your intent is

1642
02:14:30,640 --> 02:14:32,540
mimic exactly what's depicted here

1643
02:14:34,020 --> 02:14:40,120
I'm good with that or if you wanted to describe how these lines should intersect I would be good with that as well

1644
02:14:40,120 --> 02:14:40,440
I

1645
02:14:42,490 --> 02:14:47,470
don't, I don't have an issue with leavein' the way it is, I don't know about anybody else to guess.

1646
02:14:47,730 --> 02:14:56,190
I just have a clarifying question. So are we saying that we believe that the boundaries may not be 100% accurate,

1647
02:14:56,490 --> 02:14:57,810
and that it needs to be re-served?

1648
02:14:59,910 --> 02:15:01,870
Now, we're just looking for direction to clear up the record.

1649
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:11,440
And I agree with the overall intent. I'm just trying to understand what you were saying, like, about you're saying that you went way back to try and line everything up. So the boundaries are an issue or not.

1650
02:15:02,270 --> 02:15:04,230
Okay. So I think we're seeing the record.

1651
02:15:04,390 --> 02:15:04,790
I think what you...

1652
02:15:12,860 --> 02:15:16,740
Absent, this process for council is doing a comprehensive remapping.

1653
02:15:17,480 --> 02:15:28,100
Issues that involved discrepancies in the parcel boundaries is a function of, first, a zoning administrator's determination, which then gets answered by the BZA.

1654
02:15:28,100 --> 02:15:32,760
they affirm or change or clear the record at the BZA, right?

1655
02:15:34,180 --> 02:15:37,700
Because I'm sure you want to be able to use your discretionary authority.

1656
02:15:38,060 --> 02:15:39,860
That's why this is before you.

1657
02:15:40,320 --> 02:15:43,880
Is that you don't want the BZA to preemptively act?

1658
02:15:45,100 --> 02:15:47,300
Not that you couldn't do something else.

1659
02:15:47,300 --> 02:15:51,560
It would just prolong the process to effectively continue

1660
02:15:51,560 --> 02:15:53,060
what you've got shown on the map.

1661
02:15:53,200 --> 02:15:54,960
Okay, thank you for clarifying it.

1662
02:15:54,960 --> 02:15:57,060
And yeah, I wasn't trying to make a headache out of it.

1663
02:15:57,120 --> 02:15:59,780
I just, what you had said, I just was just thinking

1664
02:15:59,780 --> 02:16:00,900
there was a boundary issue.

1665
02:16:01,260 --> 02:16:04,640
And I do, I also respect that you're trying,

1666
02:16:05,140 --> 02:16:07,540
you were doing your due diligence by trying to align parcels

1667
02:16:07,540 --> 02:16:09,400
with zoning across the town.

1668
02:16:09,420 --> 02:16:10,360
So totally understand.

1669
02:16:10,460 --> 02:16:13,420
And I know this did cause a little bit of a hub of,

1670
02:16:13,420 --> 02:16:13,980
if you will.

1671
02:16:14,360 --> 02:16:15,880
But I think this is, I agree.

1672
02:16:15,980 --> 02:16:20,160
This is a unique situation for us to go against the grain a little bit.

1673
02:16:22,130 --> 02:16:22,390
All right.

1674
02:16:23,230 --> 02:16:23,510
OK.

1675
02:16:23,990 --> 02:16:24,630
Thank you.

1676
02:16:25,230 --> 02:16:30,050
So that is everything in tonight's agenda packet.

1677
02:16:30,430 --> 02:16:34,990
Now I'm out of May or there was a few items submitted after the agenda packet was published.

1678
02:16:35,630 --> 02:16:37,310
We can hold those till another.

1679
02:16:37,330 --> 02:16:38,610
We're holding those.

1680
02:16:41,890 --> 02:16:44,310
Did you get all the votes you needed, though?

1681
02:16:44,610 --> 02:16:45,010
I mean.

1682
02:16:45,370 --> 02:16:45,670
Yes.

1683
02:16:45,770 --> 02:16:48,890
I could just run through it real quickly, but it's like that.

1684
02:16:49,090 --> 02:16:53,130
So what we got, if we go back to our original sheet here.

1685
02:16:53,130 --> 02:17:00,990
So we got guidance on the housing mix requirements to leave those as is minimum open space.

1686
02:17:01,110 --> 02:17:07,950
We got guidance to reduce CDAC or this crescent district down to 20% down town.

1687
02:17:07,950 --> 02:17:14,330
We got guidance to make the enhanced building high area, a minor special exception to leave

1688
02:17:14,330 --> 02:17:20,310
the fence side alone, reduce the parking and live for residential to up to five spaces that

1689
02:17:20,310 --> 02:17:26,650
can be bought. We also got guidance to leave it up to five units by right, six or more, six to

1690
02:17:26,650 --> 02:17:32,670
ten, minor special exception, 11 plus special exception. We confirm the mixed use district

1691
02:17:32,670 --> 02:17:38,350
designation for safeway, and then we went through the highlighted changes on the map,

1692
02:17:38,630 --> 02:17:43,070
and it sounds like the council's in agreement with the map as drafted.

1693
02:17:46,170 --> 02:17:56,030
I'm sorry, I just have a question on process, so we went through everything that was in the staff report, which I know we submitted.

1694
02:17:57,430 --> 02:18:04,170
If we have additional item, I thought we were just going to look at section two or division two or whatever it were calling.

1695
02:18:04,650 --> 02:18:11,530
And so I had some other items that weren't in this. Do I now send that to James and try to get that on our next deep dive?

1696
02:18:11,530 --> 02:18:24,530
are one of them. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Good work, everybody. That concludes our

1697
02:18:24,530 --> 02:18:29,710
work session for tonight. The next deep dive list we're going to dig into uses a little bit

1698
02:18:29,710 --> 02:18:35,570
more in accompanying use standards, levels of permissibility, et cetera. And then as we get more items,

1699
02:18:35,570 --> 02:18:38,110
will keep scheduling on the back end.

1700
02:18:40,900 --> 02:18:43,640
I do have a proclamation request.

1701
02:18:44,420 --> 02:18:49,300
Our sheet, Gucci, President, and CEO of Lead America, United National and Diversity Coalition

1702
02:18:49,300 --> 02:18:56,780
of America, proclaiming Hindu heritage month in Duwali, 2026, it's like he would like

1703
02:18:56,780 --> 02:19:00,120
it presented on October 27th and he would be the recipient.

1704
02:19:00,540 --> 02:19:04,200
So I have four people that would be willing to support that proclamation.

1705
02:19:06,100 --> 02:19:09,980
everybody, okay? Does anybody have any teacher media items or

1706
02:19:09,980 --> 02:19:15,400
disclosures they want to tonight? Yes, sir. Dr. Me? Yeah. I just want to be sure that

1707
02:19:15,980 --> 02:19:21,280
we are definitely going to have the parking in the Lou conversation. Well he has said that,

1708
02:19:21,440 --> 02:19:25,080
but when we're done with this. Yeah, okay, okay. No problem.

1709
02:19:27,280 --> 02:19:34,120
I'm not coming to work session. Separate from the deep dive discussions? Yeah. It can be part of the deep dive.

1710
02:19:34,120 --> 02:19:37,820
he said, it's not Sony, so it has to be separate work session.

1711
02:19:39,480 --> 02:19:40,740
One July to do that.

1712
02:19:40,920 --> 02:19:41,220
How soon?

1713
02:19:43,280 --> 02:19:44,940
You want to get past the deep dive?

1714
02:19:44,980 --> 02:19:45,460
That's good.

1715
02:19:46,100 --> 02:19:46,740
Yeah, but I don't know.

1716
02:19:46,740 --> 02:19:47,160
You want to get past this?

1717
02:19:48,220 --> 02:19:49,040
Pick this up and then do you need it?

1718
02:19:49,040 --> 02:19:49,900
Yeah, well, we do in the fight.

1719
02:19:49,960 --> 02:19:52,220
Like a February march time frame.

1720
02:19:52,540 --> 02:19:52,900
Okay.

1721
02:19:53,580 --> 02:19:53,800
Okay.

1722
02:19:53,980 --> 02:19:54,180
The middle.

1723
02:19:55,060 --> 02:19:55,120
So.

1724
02:19:56,220 --> 02:19:58,260
Um, anybody else have anything?

1725
02:19:59,840 --> 02:20:01,140
Do I have a motion to adjourn?

1726
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:02,900
All right.

1727
02:20:01,320 --> 02:20:01,480
Okay.

1728
02:20:02,020 --> 02:20:02,380
Second?

1729
02:20:02,380 --> 02:20:03,960
All in favour?

1730
02:20:05,480 --> 02:20:08,100
Well, that was very nice job. Yeah.