1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,620 This meeting is now in order, and we will jump right into the regular agenda. 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:17,080 All right, item 3.1, public hearing and recommendation of Perry commercial's request for review of an amendment to the Traverse Mountain Area Plan, 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:23,800 changing approximately five acres located at Tipano's Highway Mountain View Road from high-density residential to highway commercial. 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,720 This was previously tabled at the August 13 meeting. 5 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:44,260 So the proposal is on approximately five acres next to the existing sunrise office building and central bank. 6 00:00:44,820 --> 00:00:46,860 Yeah, I don't want to display my. 7 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:48,940 Sorry. 8 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,040 Sorry. 9 00:00:51,860 --> 00:00:52,420 Right. 10 00:00:55,100 --> 00:01:08,840 So just be an extension of the existing commercial that's in this area, they're not proposing any other changes to the Traverse On Area Plan at this time would just change this to Highway Commercial. 11 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:16,000 just a few things to be aware of from some of the public comment we got. 12 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:19,820 Both of these were previously changed. 13 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,620 There was an amendment in 2013. 14 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,560 And when they first came through, it was a little bit ambiguous. 15 00:01:27,660 --> 00:01:30,620 How big of a property they wanted to change. 16 00:01:31,140 --> 00:01:35,460 And so planning commission had actually recommended going up to six acres. 17 00:01:35,460 --> 00:01:39,740 and then City Council approved it for three acres. 18 00:01:40,020 --> 00:01:41,760 And right now it's like 2.6 acres. 19 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,960 So in theory, maybe there is a little bit 20 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:50,860 that could be still, but not the full, what they're wanting. 21 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,260 Also that doesn't have to impact your decision on, 22 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,020 but just it has been considered in the past. 23 00:01:58,380 --> 00:02:01,780 And I think they, since at least 2013 saw 24 00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:04,760 that there was some commercial by opportunities 25 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:14,000 in this area and you know I guess a planning principle to keep in mind is can be good to separate 26 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:20,580 residential from busy roads. I look at the view apartment in question why we allowed them to 27 00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:25,300 build a little pocket park right next to a really high busy road. I don't know if that's great 28 00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:32,820 for safety and quality of life. So it's the most things to keep in mind of course there's also 29 00:02:32,820 --> 00:02:40,840 impact from commercial it can increase traffic and you know if it's a large traffic generator 30 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:46,180 they would have to do a traffic study and make improvements based off of that but that does also have 31 00:02:46,180 --> 00:02:51,480 impact yeah just some things to consider and with that I'll turn it back to the commission for 32 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,560 decision. Thank you Brittany as the applicant president that 33 00:03:03,370 --> 00:03:04,990 evening commissioner so I met Swain 34 00:03:04,990 --> 00:03:09,130 representing the Perry companies that is the applicant for this property, 35 00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:14,250 just a few points 36 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:18,530 to reiterate what Britain is already stated and what's in the staff report. All we're 37 00:03:18,530 --> 00:03:24,710 asking is for a continuation of the commercial zoning that we feel like is consistent 38 00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:31,110 with the rest of the frontage that's heading really from this property to the east and being 39 00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:39,910 complement and echoing reasonable land use and planning to put commercial down toward the 40 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:45,930 commercial corridor for traffic circulation purposes for noise purposes just from a land 41 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:51,130 use perspective. We feel like this is long-term is the appropriate use for this piece of property. 42 00:03:52,510 --> 00:03:56,950 I think that is outlined in frankly we probably should have just brought this through 43 00:03:56,950 --> 00:04:04,650 at the same time the central Utah bank was doing their use amendment within the area plan 44 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:11,410 back in 2013 because the commission at that time was also just considering, you know, in 45 00:04:11,410 --> 00:04:17,950 approving a larger parcel for commercially used in the same area that would be contiguous 46 00:04:17,950 --> 00:04:25,690 with the existing central Utah bank. So it's really pretty straightforward, we're just asking for 47 00:04:25,690 --> 00:04:31,750 amendment. I would hope that we could just focus on this. I know that we've been here on other 48 00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:34,230 applications recently. 49 00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:40,230 We've, we understand where the council stands on that application. 50 00:04:42,130 --> 00:04:50,330 And we have a lot of interests within Trevor's Mountain, right? And in previous 51 00:04:51,570 --> 00:04:57,010 dialogue, there's been a lot of other things brought into whatever it is that Perry 52 00:04:57,010 --> 00:04:59,970 brings forward that are unrelated to the current app. 53 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:11,720 I would just hope tonight that we can have a discussion based upon what is the appropriate land use on this particular application and able to move forward one way or another. 54 00:05:13,460 --> 00:05:26,520 But we feel like it's an addition to the city. It creates a new commercial property that will obviously produce tax revenue aside from what's already entitled for the property. 55 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,640 And we feel like it long-term was just the appropriate use for the for the piece of ground. 56 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,260 So, happy to answer any questions. Any questions for the applicant? 57 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,120 I have a question. 58 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,760 So, what does this do with your density cap? Like if this is no longer? 59 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:52,740 The density in the Sarah, I think, in the staff reports outline it's flexible as it is. 60 00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:54,760 So, when do anything to the density cap? 61 00:05:54,760 --> 00:06:01,400 there's property where that density can be moved around to. So it wouldn't apply 62 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,380 to any density cap. It would just be a result of this, of the land use for this 63 00:06:05,380 --> 00:06:09,380 parcel. All the other land uses outside of this would remain the same. 64 00:06:11,750 --> 00:06:16,910 Okay. So when you residential opportunities that currently exist for this property 65 00:06:16,910 --> 00:06:19,910 would you moved to some other parcels? 66 00:06:22,050 --> 00:06:23,230 I'm sorry, Claire. 67 00:06:23,870 --> 00:06:28,010 So you have the overall general plan for the area. 68 00:06:28,350 --> 00:06:33,170 It does call for certain rights for the amount of units in each different pod. 69 00:06:33,830 --> 00:06:36,590 Are you saying that if this were to be resowned as commercial, 70 00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:42,030 the residential units that are assigned to this pod or this area of the plan 71 00:06:42,030 --> 00:06:43,430 would be distributed elsewhere? 72 00:06:44,350 --> 00:06:49,450 Well, they would remain essentially here, so right now, this parcel is continues with the 73 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:54,510 parcel above this in the HDR zone and that density would remain. 74 00:06:55,250 --> 00:07:00,710 So it wouldn't, and maybe Britain, you guys could put gifts and clarity to this as well, 75 00:07:01,510 --> 00:07:08,450 but it's going to just push that density or those rooftops, it's not as though those 76 00:07:08,450 --> 00:07:11,150 then so he's going to go away under the application. 77 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,080 Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? 78 00:07:19,020 --> 00:07:22,840 We will probably have more questions later. Great. I'll stand by. Thank you. 79 00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:26,040 I failed to give us an opportunity to ask questions to staff, 80 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:32,020 did anybody have questions for staff? I'll just reiterate, I think, the same question, 81 00:07:32,380 --> 00:07:37,060 so we do have a particularity. So I'm understanding this, if this has changed to commercial, 82 00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:41,140 I'm just going to grab a number out of thin air so we're just using something concrete. 83 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,600 Let's say 150 units were currently planned for what is there. 84 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:48,240 We would still have 150 units. 85 00:07:48,420 --> 00:07:53,200 It would now be squeezed into the smaller space above while we then have commercial 86 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,420 builds on what is being proposed. 87 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:55,300 Is that correct? 88 00:07:57,660 --> 00:07:57,760 Okay. 89 00:07:59,940 --> 00:08:05,660 That's a whole other application or do they just get it? 90 00:08:05,660 --> 00:08:18,420 So the way this area, currently as I guess I could pull it up in the area plan, it's designated by the areas is how many units there are. 91 00:08:19,020 --> 00:08:24,660 And so if it, it wouldn't change the fact that that area has that many units if that makes sense. 92 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,060 I'll pull it up. 93 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:43,680 If it were a four gallon juggle water and there were three gallons of water and we now make it a three gallon juggle the fact is the water remains the same 94 00:08:44,940 --> 00:08:45,660 Yes, 95 00:08:48,340 --> 00:08:54,310 okay. Thank you. Yeah, so it's part of 96 00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:57,230 this peridee 97 00:08:57,230 --> 00:08:59,210 planning district and 98 00:08:59,210 --> 00:09:03,150 there's 260 dwelling units here and I think 99 00:09:03,670 --> 00:09:06,250 260 units yeah, and so 100 00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:20,050 But really, this hasn't developed as shown, the road doesn't come through like this, and so the line between Perry C&D is a little bit less clear, 101 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:28,110 so it probably does incorporate more of both of these, and obviously some of these units have already been used. 102 00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:37,290 the view is in here and is used up some of these so yeah so they have to keep 103 00:09:37,290 --> 00:09:43,130 there density in this unit they can't now say well we have 150 that we don't 104 00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:47,630 have anymore because we made it highway commercial so we get to use that 150 105 00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:58,090 somewhere else so I mean it has to stay in this area it just would be a 106 00:09:58,090 --> 00:09:59,950 even more light dancing. 107 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,440 So, north of the sunrise way is where we'd have to fit the rest of the halt. 108 00:10:06,140 --> 00:10:12,480 Yeah. Okay. Why wouldn't the commercial development cut into their units allowed? 109 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,160 So, I wouldn't be essentially, they're asking for a commercial instead of residential. 110 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,560 I guess, you know, you could propose that that it is. 111 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:28,180 be taken out for the ERUs, commercial wouldn't be very many 112 00:10:28,180 --> 00:10:33,360 ERUs, equivalent residential units, right? It's looking at number of 113 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,800 fixture units, unless it's a hotel or something like that, I mean Gary could 114 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,560 speak more to that, but most commercials pretty low on the number of 115 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,950 ERUs, right. And then also, where might be the 116 00:10:52,950 --> 00:10:57,450 that the bank went in, or did we did this for the bank? 117 00:10:57,910 --> 00:11:00,850 So 2013 was when that hit plan was amended. 118 00:11:01,470 --> 00:11:05,950 And at that point, the planning commission recommended a larger parcel, the city council 119 00:11:05,950 --> 00:11:09,050 elected to go a smaller parcel. Can you give a history on that? 120 00:11:10,350 --> 00:11:19,510 Yeah, I just reviewed this. I think they were looking into it, so 121 00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:21,850 Yeah, I, 122 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:29,510 sorry, let's see if I can find what they had actually proposed. 123 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,040 That's from what I remember, it was just a little bit vague on what they were actually wanting 124 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:44,680 there, just saying like, let's amend some of the area along. 125 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,600 So I guess they show this smaller area, but they're narrative, 126 00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:00,490 oh yeah, so I mean they were 127 00:12:00,490 --> 00:12:03,670 saying 2.3 to 5 acres was their quest, 128 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:06,620 yeah. 129 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,620 So I mean, I don't know, it wasn't here. 130 00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:12,020 So I couldn't tell you from memory what happened. 131 00:12:12,540 --> 00:12:14,180 But it sounds like that was kind of what it was. 132 00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:18,140 It was just maybe not a totally clear quest of, 133 00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:21,140 we're looking for this acreage clarity 134 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:25,160 and planning commission was more like, yeah, let's go. 135 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,060 Big, let's go up. 136 00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:29,580 Maybe beyond what you think you might need. 137 00:12:29,660 --> 00:12:31,400 Maybe they were like, we need up to 5 acres 138 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,620 I said, okay, let's go to six acres in case you need that and maybe they knew more by 139 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:38,860 city council and so that's why city council it was three. I don't know. It's not very clear 140 00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:44,680 in the minutes either. Okay. Any other questions for staff? 141 00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:51,480 All right. This is a public hearing. 142 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,380 We did have some public comments online that we probably want to read first and then we will have 143 00:12:57,380 --> 00:13:01,700 the public come up and speak. We will open the public hearing at this point. 144 00:13:02,940 --> 00:13:11,840 So there was 19 people who left public comments online, and they were all against making 145 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:20,460 the change, so they talked to our wanting to leave at high density residential, feeling 146 00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:25,880 like it was just a benefit for Perry and not benefiting this surrounding neighborhood, 147 00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:30,230 let's see 148 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:51,920 Some people were asking if it could be a part instead, and I tried to respond, I think it mostly came through emails, I tried to respond to them and let them know that that's not a consideration for it to become a part. 149 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:58,240 We'd have to buy the land from Paris and they'd have to be a willing seller of the land. 150 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:04,600 We couldn't just require that at this point, either that will give them more density, 151 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:07,060 some sort of compensation for the land, 152 00:14:09,660 --> 00:14:14,060 and, yeah, again, just kind of overall opposition, 153 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:21,900 feeling like there's been a lot of growth, concerns about traffic, and feeling like should 154 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:33,300 to say what it is and that periods used all of their density and just in order to that. 155 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,260 No, she's going through this quickly. 156 00:14:37,780 --> 00:14:40,200 We did receive these ahead of time when we have read them. 157 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:43,180 But we do want to make sure that they get into the public record. 158 00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:47,750 How many comments did you say they were? 159 00:14:48,610 --> 00:14:49,490 Nineteen people. 160 00:14:49,850 --> 00:14:50,710 We loved comments. 161 00:14:52,290 --> 00:14:54,410 I think there's one that a person that had two comments. 162 00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:56,670 But yeah, so maybe 20-20- 163 00:14:56,670 --> 00:14:58,810 Oh, don't mess your 18 separate people. 164 00:14:59,130 --> 00:14:59,530 All against. 165 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:00,720 Okay, 166 00:15:11,580 --> 00:15:18,060 thank you, Brittany. We will invite the public at this point to come forward in their comment. 167 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:33,880 My name is Rob Ludlow, and I've been a 20-year resident of Traverse Mountain, and unlike Perry, 168 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:42,240 who has had a significant turnover, I was in the room when this 2012 area plan was negotiated. 169 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:51,220 and when you negotiated an area plan, what we were doing was rationalizing mountain home 170 00:15:51,220 --> 00:15:58,580 developments proposal of 8,400 units, because they pulled out an option that the city gave 171 00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:07,340 them to maximize the density inside of Travers Mountain, an exchange for giving Cabela 172 00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:15,820 free land. And back in the day, that slipped through the city council and was approved. And then the city began to realize that we don't have room for 173 00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:32,700 8,400 units. And so a negotiation of vested development rights then ensued. And so let's be very clear about what's happening today. At the end, a freeway compromises broker between the city, 174 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:38,960 Traverse Mountain residents who were sold and promised and bought into a 3,500 unit plan. 175 00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:44,360 And, you know, the developer kind of hid in their back pockets, their ultimate plans. 176 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:51,360 And we're delighted to charge lot premiums for a community that they knew would never materialize. 177 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:57,460 So, Lehigh City came in, Mark Johnson came in, we broke her to three-way compromise. 178 00:16:57,460 --> 00:17:06,140 everyone gave up something and we ended at 5,812 units and a very specific allocation of commercial. 179 00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:13,300 And so to say well there's there's really nothing going on here is a fundamental misunderstanding 180 00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:19,660 and misrepresentation of this. What when we look up here we see highway residential, 181 00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:27,780 high density residential. And if you look and see what's really happened, Perry had 260 units 182 00:17:27,780 --> 00:17:36,460 in this whole area, Perry V. They decided to build the view of apartments, 300 and 4 units, 183 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,900 or 300 and 8 units. And so they didn't have enough units inside of Perry planning D. And so they 184 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:49,160 borrowed 48 units from Perry C in order to put this ultra high density complex together. 185 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:56,680 So, what's really happened here is Perry has maxed out all of their vested development rights. 186 00:17:57,180 --> 00:18:00,560 So, I disagree with Brittany when she says, well, we'd have to buy it. 187 00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:04,980 No, there's no more permitted use for this five acres. 188 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,620 They've shot the moon, they're done. 189 00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:14,620 Yes, there is potentially some fluidity between density, which they've already exercised, 190 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,480 but you don't have to approve anything today. 191 00:18:19,260 --> 00:18:25,040 So they maximized, they've gotten all of the commercial value that they were promised in 2012. 192 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,580 They've maxed out all their belt and rights. 193 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:29,480 And so what are they doing now? 194 00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:33,600 They're saying, well, I would like to get something for nothing. 195 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,480 And we've done it twice before. 196 00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:43,840 So let's see if we can do it a third time and snicker the community into buying it. 197 00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:47,920 And so the simple answer to that is no. 198 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,840 It's pretty if there are no best at development rights on that land, it's vacant. 199 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,920 So what is part of going to do with it? 200 00:18:56,260 --> 00:19:00,280 Their option is to headed over to the city, or they can continue to maintain it and pay taxes 201 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,400 on it and get nothing no value from it. 202 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,000 But you're in no obligation. 203 00:19:04,340 --> 00:19:10,360 And so when you look at the planned community ordinance, it says that there may be special circumstances 204 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:15,080 where there are extraordinary contributions made, or the applicant proposes to go beyond 205 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,540 the standard required to achieve any given density bonus. 206 00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:19,380 Well, essentially, that's what they're asking for. 207 00:19:19,580 --> 00:19:22,300 They're asking for new vested development rights. 208 00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:27,280 And so my question is, well, what is the extraordinary contribution they've made? 209 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,920 I've heard one argument from them. 210 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,100 And that is, hey, we're going to bring in more taxes. 211 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,180 Well, if you look at the other two units that they brought in, 212 00:19:39,580 --> 00:19:42,620 all of those are services businesses that don't get tax. 213 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:53,500 So what we're really talking about for the commercial that Perry has brought this corner of Traverse Mountain is $14,000 in property taxes that come to the high city. 214 00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:57,820 And so I would say, you know, that's entirely underwhelming. 215 00:19:57,820 --> 00:19:59,960 and and and is is not 216 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:14,760 Not worth approving a brand new bestie development right, that they're asking you to come up and authorize from thin air. There is no more, they're done with this land. 217 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:25,540 Now, let's also look at the responsibility of a developer and a plan community, as opposed to talk about and look at the community and the plan as a whole. That's what the ordinance requires. 218 00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:30,840 And what did you hear today from the developer, ignore all of the other pieces. 219 00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:33,880 We like this planning by exception piece. 220 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:40,160 We want to carve another little chunk out and not look at the community as a whole that 221 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:46,220 we have a fiduciary duty and to help operate within and oversee as the declarant of the 222 00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:47,180 Master Association. 223 00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:59,580 They have a duty to look out and deliver an elevated product, better architecture, better design, better traffic, better integration, 224 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,880 and you didn't hear one of those arguments today for why this is good for Traverse Mountain. 225 00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:14,100 What you hear, though, is, we'll kind of chunk away an app commercial and get on the road 226 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:18,160 where they are taking away residential and, you know, 227 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,340 and, and, um, and filling it with commercial. 228 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:27,180 So, anyway, they can kind of squeeze density in to make it higher and higher density and go beyond it. 229 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:33,920 And then, then they'll come and say, hey, you know that 20, you, you know, unit per acre density cap, going to ignore that. 230 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:40,740 We deserve an exception, and so that what they're trying to do is maximize their return. 231 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,800 They're trying to monetize every single last bit of development right that you give them. 232 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,120 And so let's be very clear. 233 00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:51,900 They have no development right on this land, on this property. 234 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:00,200 So I disagree with Britain's assessment that this is a continuation of an existing commercial area. 235 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:07,600 No, they're asking for a planning by exception to happen, yet a third time, where we carve off another little chunk, 236 00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:13,400 talk about ethereal property taxes or taxes, which predominantly would be service based, 237 00:22:13,940 --> 00:22:17,040 and there's no tax really revenue coming into the United States for that. 238 00:22:19,060 --> 00:22:22,040 And then it's like, okay, well, let's look at Perry C. 239 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:26,940 Do you see that if you bring up the map, there's a half an acre, why is there a half an acre? 240 00:22:27,620 --> 00:22:33,480 Well, contrary to the plan community ordinance, they decided that they would move around their 241 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,000 park space, that they were obligated to deliver five acres. 242 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,700 The plan community order specifically says you're not allowed to lay out a lot of peace 243 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:40,040 meal. 244 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,680 What did they do? 245 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,420 Well, they gave four and a half acres almost, you know, one point three, you know, one 246 00:22:47,420 --> 00:22:55,420 one point two miles away, your Fire Station 8083, which is not walkable from all the density 247 00:22:55,420 --> 00:23:02,120 that they built. What is the high city's neighborhood park standard? I believe this is 0.25 248 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:09,560 to a half a mile. So we're well beyond. We're two and a half times beyond where the open space 249 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:16,220 should be. And then they say, well, we didn't have it a plan there. So we're going to just Jerry Man, 250 00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:25,400 we're going to ignore the code, which says we can't piecemeal it. And we're going to tack on an 251 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,380 commercial development rights and convince the plan of commission and convince the developer 252 00:23:32,380 --> 00:23:37,700 or the city council to just give it to us because it's the right thing to do. 253 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:44,860 Well, no, the right thing to do, as somebody who's benefited immensely economically from 254 00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:50,100 Traverse Mountain is somebody who is running the mining operation in West Canyon and totally 255 00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:54,520 making incredible amount of money, these guys are doing incredibly well. 256 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,600 We don't need to create any more mouserodies for Bill Perry. 257 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,080 He's got plenty of mouserodies. 258 00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:07,400 What we need to do is say, look, you have to show that the change, the vested right that 259 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,500 you're requesting is exceeding the standard. 260 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:20,840 The code specifically says that they need to convince you that the additional rights that they 261 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:29,740 asking for are our beneficial to that area. Hey Rob, I'm gonna take off a little bit. I love the 262 00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:35,240 data you bring, you bring data, you bring code. I need you to be more concise. I can't give 263 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,980 everybody as much time as you're taking. Just by asking it to be more concise. Say your piece, 264 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:45,160 I do want to hear it, I'm not trying to say, I don't want to hear what you have to say, but I need 265 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,340 you to be more concise because I cannot give everybody this amount of time enough. So please be concise. 266 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,660 So my request is a simple, no. 267 00:24:55,380 --> 00:24:56,760 No more planning by exceptions. 268 00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,960 The code specific. 269 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:11,720 Typically requires them to take into entirety their planning district. And so if it's very, where to come up here and do that, let's talk about where the location of trying to park is. 270 00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:23,780 If they were really thinking about the community, they would even think about, well, what's happening in the adjacent master plan community, and because of the location of the temple, it's sucked up all of the open space. 271 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:27,020 There's not a close-by park of significance. 272 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,460 And so, you know what? 273 00:25:30,060 --> 00:25:31,640 We can have a bi-biker park. 274 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,220 We don't need to buy it. 275 00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:35,300 Perry can contribute it where they can maintain it 276 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:35,960 into perpetuity. 277 00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:42,820 They don't deserve to have additional rights because they need 278 00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:43,840 to do something significant. 279 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,340 And what's an example of that? 280 00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:45,940 And then I'll close. 281 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:53,760 Ripper Bend wanted to relocate 317 units out of the Ripper 282 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,860 down behind Harman's into a commercial area. 283 00:25:58,980 --> 00:26:01,340 They wanted to chain and encode specifically 284 00:26:01,340 --> 00:26:04,760 in the private-front area plan specifically prohibited that. 285 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:07,680 So they did something extraordinary. 286 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,720 They offered 47 acres of open space to the high city 287 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,160 in exchange for delivering the exception. 288 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,760 And there was a win-win that happened there. 289 00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:22,280 And there was a strong argument that said, 290 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:28,540 having that higher density closer to S or 92 and minimizing the traffic inside of the canyon 291 00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:33,440 actually was was in the best interest of the community. We actually looked at the hole 292 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,440 and made that judgment as a whole and they also agreed to enhance hillside reclamation and 293 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:48,940 building out the connector for the Bonneville shoreline trail. That is what an area plan amendment 294 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:55,600 not to be. When you're asking for increase in your rights, you've then come with an increased 295 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:02,180 product that you're packaging that for the community. Perry has not done that. They've 296 00:27:02,180 --> 00:27:05,280 not done that for any of the two times before, and they certainly have not done that today. 297 00:27:05,940 --> 00:27:11,140 And so I would have strongly encourage you to deny the application and say no more planning 298 00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:15,860 by exception. Let's look into the entirety. Let's be accountable for where you put shoehorn 299 00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:21,540 open space far away from any density that you built and do the right thing and act like a 300 00:27:21,540 --> 00:27:25,600 master developer should and put in the park that's been missing for all the density that 301 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,380 they've been bringing in to Traverse Mountain. And I thank you for for for considering that. 302 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:31,780 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 303 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,460 My name is Erin. I think Tinn and I live in the crossing. 304 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:50,180 The residential neighborhood that's adjacent to the area and will be negatively affected by 305 00:27:50,180 --> 00:27:54,580 this proposed change. And so I'm here to ask you to deny this proposed area of 306 00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:58,780 amendment. When I tried to understand what was happening here, you know, the 307 00:27:58,780 --> 00:28:01,560 Prairie D parcel, I found the exact same thing that everyone was talking about. They're 308 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:07,700 allocated 260. They used all of that plus more to build the view, cramming all their 309 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:14,580 density into only a part of the designated area. So as a direct result of their own strategy, 310 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:18,720 Prairie has deliberately left themselves zero dwelling units on this property and zero 311 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:30,420 So having successfully pocketed the profits and they're coming back and asking for a nice gift from the high city brand new commercial entitlements on the mt5 acres. 312 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,920 They're asking the city to create valuable new property rights out of thin air. 313 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:41,840 New development rights are a, I think, a valuable, you know, thing that the city is 314 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,500 can grant. And so giving that away for free to an, to a developer who deliberately 315 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:53,120 exhausted their rights should not be done lightly. Allowing this amendment could set 316 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,820 a bad precedent. It tells developers that they can cram their density into smaller areas 317 00:28:57,820 --> 00:29:02,660 and then come, and leave open parts and come back and ask for more if they already used up 318 00:29:02,660 --> 00:29:11,280 all their rights and, you know, it's just not, it's a subverts the intent of the 319 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,000 Traverse Mountain Area Plan to have a planned development to just change things like 320 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,900 Rob talked about. We just think Lee High City should hold Perry to the standard of 321 00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:24,720 developing their existing rights across the entirety of their property, not allow them 322 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,960 to cram it all into one corner and do whatever they want in the next section. So how does 323 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,480 get fixed since Perry was already allowed to use up all their rights. 324 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,020 So, like Rob mentioned, we sure they could do a park, or they could just simply be required 325 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:42,260 to use the C rights to cover D also. 326 00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:47,960 By the calculations that we have from the high city, they have 75 units remaining to develop 327 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,200 across that, it's about 16 acres and developing that for homes would result in lot 328 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,160 sizes comparable to the surrounding community. 329 00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:58,040 It would go right along with what's already there. 330 00:29:58,600 --> 00:29:59,960 And for anyone worried about 331 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:10,640 Our residential being close to the highway there. The home's closest to the highway would still be around 200 feet from the highway, which is similar to what's on the south side of the highway in those successful neighborhoods. 332 00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:22,500 It's not anything that Lehigh hasn't done before. And then even better, those lots that back up to the highway would be above the retention base, then they'd all be view lots and have no back neighbors ever. 333 00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:31,500 So, they'd be desirable lots, so that's not like an onerous thing for them to just develop it as it's currently zoned. 334 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,280 And I have other stuff to talk about how kind of about the parts that moved and the road, 335 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,940 the traffic that they'll add is already on a road that they've already impacted, 336 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,520 and allowing them to squeeze the density rights into the smaller thing, 337 00:30:46,820 --> 00:30:50,400 we get the double impact of not only an unknown commercial impact, 338 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,660 adding even more traffic, but also even denser. Just spread the density, they have the rights, 339 00:30:55,940 --> 00:31:00,920 they don't need a special gift of any additional rights. So please deny it. Thank you. Thank you. 340 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,820 Anyone else would like to speak to this item? 341 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,540 Seeing none, we will close the public hearing 342 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,660 and invite the applicant to address anything if you would like to. Thank 343 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,420 you, first in time. 344 00:31:24,420 --> 00:31:25,800 And we 345 00:31:29,420 --> 00:31:35,900 recognize there's a lot of history here with the Perry entities on Traverse Mountain. 346 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,400 Rob Lotto is his voice as a pinion bridge strongly, 347 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,320 he's well-spoken, he's here every 348 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,700 time anything from the Perry companies is coming forward before the city. 349 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,020 There's many things that are being said tonight that are not factual. 350 00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:08,520 that are based upon hearsay and based upon vendetta's and personal feelings from past events. 351 00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:18,500 Why, why Paul or excuse me, why Rob is given essentially a sea of the table as a day facto council member 352 00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:24,180 and the day facto commission members is lost on me. 353 00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:32,660 But the peri companies just need to be able to work through a rational application, which is 354 00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:37,860 our right as a private property owner, to talk about something that is a reasonable 355 00:32:37,860 --> 00:32:45,440 land use, long-term, if you're an alien from out of space, and you come to Travers Mountain, 356 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,160 and you have all the information of proper land use, you would look at this property and 357 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,960 That's the appropriate use for this piece of property. 358 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,460 It is consistent with the corridor, it's consistent with appropriate land use policies, 359 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,500 it's consistent with the j's and land uses. 360 00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:09,080 If you look all the way up and down the corridor, it's consistent with that use. 361 00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:13,140 We do have vested rights that remain on this property. 362 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:20,400 The concept that this is an unusable piece of ground is just simply false. 363 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:29,020 We have residential rights we can still put on this property as vested entitled rights under the HDR's own. 364 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,140 We can do that and we will do that. 365 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,340 We just don't believe that that is the appropriate use for this piece of property. 366 00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:44,860 To say that the Perry companies have done nothing but profit-eared off of Traverse Mountain is also false. 367 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,660 We have been extremely workable with the city of Lehigh. 368 00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:58,240 We have sold property for fire stations, for substations, for well rights, for easements. 369 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,860 We have brought enormous job of creation into the city through the Traverse Ridge Office Park. 370 00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:16,660 The Stabler Chotelle, the development of the charter school next to the park, the view apartments, and also the whole food anchor shopping center. 371 00:34:16,660 --> 00:34:20,780 I'm not sure how Rob forgot that that was part of that's our development. 372 00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:31,500 We have partnered with Senator Cal and have worked tirelessly for years to bring that to fruition, which will bring significant tax base to the city. 373 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:39,900 That was something that was approved by the Council, and was also looked at as a significant 374 00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:47,820 value add to the city as it relates to some tax increment that was necessary to make that 375 00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:48,540 project work. 376 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:54,240 The city approved and was willing to recognize the long-term benefit of that project for the 377 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:59,580 city and participate in that with some tax increment that will help us set the massive infrastructure 378 00:34:59,580 --> 00:34:59,940 Thank you for your call. 379 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:07,960 So that project. We have been working at Traverse Mountain for a couple of decades, pouring enormous 380 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:16,420 amounts of money into this project that has built the hillside that has brought commercial tax 381 00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:25,260 space that has brought jobs. Have we done it for profit? Of course we have. The concept of 382 00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:31,260 going to design our city and go through land use policy based upon some type of profit margins 383 00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:39,540 that should be acceptable to a city into the residence is poor planning. That shouldn't 384 00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:45,780 be brought up as a part of the discussion in land use policy. It's irrelevant. It's indicative 385 00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:52,560 of a personal vendetta that Mr. Leldo has had for years and it needs to be taken in the 386 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:58,680 situation put on public record that there are personal vendetta that are irrational, that 387 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:06,120 are not directly related to land use policy, and should not be considered solely as the 388 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,520 guiding principle for how your city is going to be developed. 389 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,660 We recognize that there are impacts every time a piece of property is developed. 390 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,740 We understand that. 391 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,080 There are residents that will be impacted. 392 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,720 And we all live in homes, maybe some of you live next to undeveloped property. 393 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,500 You may have some concerns about what's going to be developed there. 394 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:38,320 There are appropriate uses in each case that are reasonable, that are justifiable, that 395 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:44,020 there are analogs throughout the entire country that would outline proper land use policy. 396 00:36:44,020 --> 00:36:49,940 We feel like this is right down the fairway to use a golf analogy. 397 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:58,320 The staff agrees there was no comment back from any of the staff. 398 00:36:59,140 --> 00:37:04,840 Based upon utility usage, traffic use, creation, there was no comment. 399 00:37:07,090 --> 00:37:12,740 Even if there is approval tonight and there is an approval to City Council level. 400 00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:18,400 based upon, again, what we've deemed to be appropriate land use policy and decision-making. 401 00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:25,780 That does not devoid the city and I'm saying this for the residents benefit. 402 00:37:26,780 --> 00:37:29,880 The city to go through it's approval process. 403 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,880 There will be traffic analyses down based upon whatever it is that comes down the line for the commercial use of this property. 404 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:44,240 You will have the cyclone approval rights to deny or approve that based upon sound policy. 405 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:53,780 Based upon third party engineers, traffic studies, assessments of the utility impact, et cetera, et cetera. 406 00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:57,160 All of that obviously remains intact. 407 00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,860 It will be a legislative action. 408 00:37:59,860 --> 00:38:08,380 The residents will have the ability to speak their mind and voice their concerns at that time as well as now. 409 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:15,820 We believe bottom line that this is the appropriate use. 410 00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:21,920 It's consistent with the area plan or that excuse me with the general plan of this corridor. 411 00:38:24,510 --> 00:38:29,350 We are not spot zoning anything because of those things I just outlined. 412 00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:40,430 A park would be spot zoning, and to assume that we are just obligated to dedicate this to the city for a park. 413 00:38:41,530 --> 00:38:44,050 Again, is simply not true. 414 00:38:45,090 --> 00:38:49,510 It's no more true than Mr. Lello dedicating his front yard for public use. 415 00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:53,630 It's a private piece of property, we have entitled rights to it. 416 00:38:53,630 --> 00:39:05,310 They are vested, and will either use those vested rights as they're currently constituted, or if you approve this tonight, the Council approves it, will use something else. 417 00:39:07,250 --> 00:39:09,590 We, to fully understand, this is a legislative action. 418 00:39:09,770 --> 00:39:14,010 It's completely up to you and the Council to approve and deny this. 419 00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:16,710 We recognize and respect that. 420 00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:19,510 We're grateful for the ability to go through this process. 421 00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:23,530 It's our right, has a private property on it to do this. 422 00:39:27,530 --> 00:39:30,270 Are we perfect? Absolutely not. 423 00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,610 I'm not involved with the residential side of the Perry companies. 424 00:39:35,570 --> 00:39:38,750 I wasn't in the room as Mr. Lello outlined. 425 00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:45,270 Is there water under the bridge between that point and now? Certainly. 426 00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:52,150 Is there any perfect development or developer out there that doesn't get crossways with people, 427 00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:55,810 based upon what other of the circumstances might have been? 428 00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:56,570 No. 429 00:39:58,970 --> 00:39:59,870 We try to do things. 430 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:15,480 Right away, I certainly personally do. I have been the commercial developer of everything else I just outlined, the Traverse Ridge Center is mine, the hotel mine, the charter school is mine, the view apartments, those were the commercial sites projects. 431 00:40:22,570 --> 00:40:29,610 We believe that this is the appropriate use for this property, whether it's now or whether it's in 20 years. 432 00:40:29,610 --> 00:40:32,830 It puts the traffic down toward the corridor. 433 00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:37,250 It creates a buffer between the corridor and residential uses. 434 00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:44,750 It produces something that won't be produced from an HDR's own, which is tax base. 435 00:40:45,850 --> 00:40:50,210 And we have produced far more than $14,000 of tax base. 436 00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:53,190 That is just false. 437 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,280 I'm happy to answer any questions. 438 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,580 I appreciate you hearing me out. 439 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,580 I'm sorry for the emotion, but we have felt like we have been singled out in a lot of ways. 440 00:41:09,140 --> 00:41:17,710 And not these applications we feel like we would hope that there would be an objective 441 00:41:17,710 --> 00:41:23,090 land use policy perspective when considering these applications. 442 00:41:24,570 --> 00:41:29,570 We recognize that the neighbors are impacted. 443 00:41:31,450 --> 00:41:35,290 Growth comes with impact on all of us. 444 00:41:35,830 --> 00:41:37,590 I'm a full-time uton. 445 00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:38,950 I've lived here in my whole life. 446 00:41:39,250 --> 00:41:40,050 I've seen it grow. 447 00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:42,410 I've seen the impacts on traffic. 448 00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:45,350 I don't love it either. 449 00:41:45,830 --> 00:41:47,590 I love mountain biking and skiing and hiking. 450 00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:48,690 And I hold the above. 451 00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:50,050 And it just seems like wherever you go. 452 00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:51,230 Now there's a lot more people. 453 00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:55,330 The fair market directs that. 454 00:41:55,470 --> 00:41:58,490 The fair market happens. 455 00:41:59,770 --> 00:42:07,350 It's our job as policymakers and developers to do the very best we can to accommodate the 456 00:42:07,350 --> 00:42:15,640 market within objective, wise, land use policy. 457 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,460 So not just today, not just these neighbors, but those people that will be living in the 458 00:42:22,460 --> 00:42:29,360 and drivers mountain in 2030 years, we'll drive into their homes and fill like it's a well-planned 459 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:36,300 community where land uses are where they're supposed to be, where they have access to amenities, 460 00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:44,080 where the traffic is where it's supposed to be. That's our hope. We are a legacy developer. 461 00:42:44,260 --> 00:42:49,040 We don't just come and go. We've been here for 20 years. I mean, coming to these meetings for 20 years. 462 00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:52,000 We've been here for the long haul. 463 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,680 We're going to be here for the long haul. 464 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,240 We want to do it the right way. 465 00:42:56,620 --> 00:43:03,040 And we would appreciate any consideration as a relates to this application. 466 00:43:04,140 --> 00:43:08,320 And I'm happy to answer any further questions if you have any at this time. 467 00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:10,460 Any questions for the applicant? 468 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:18,200 We've heard the number 75 is left to develop as far as you are using that. 469 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:24,140 piece of property. Is there any validity to that from your side and then is there a fact 470 00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:31,460 check from the city side as far as negotiation between Mayor Johnson and Perry Holmes 471 00:43:31,460 --> 00:43:32,460 and the city. 472 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,080 So yeah I think 75 is the understanding of we have a number of units. I'm not sure what 473 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:49,760 I know that this mentioned was I robbed a little about it but I'm not sure exactly what that 474 00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:52,620 agreement is. 475 00:43:53,460 --> 00:43:55,980 So you're asking, we're talking about. 476 00:43:57,490 --> 00:43:57,930 Yeah, what? 477 00:43:58,330 --> 00:44:04,070 Are you just talking about what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, how, how, how many more densities and titles to go on that property? 478 00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:07,290 My understanding is about 75. 479 00:44:07,830 --> 00:44:09,330 You did that whole spreadsheet. 480 00:44:09,570 --> 00:44:10,930 I don't know if you have access to that. 481 00:44:11,110 --> 00:44:15,210 I'm happy to share that because, again, it's just entitled rights. 482 00:44:15,210 --> 00:44:15,690 It is. 483 00:44:15,810 --> 00:44:16,630 What it is. 484 00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:29,670 So, we've been looking at this too, so, well, a couple of things. 485 00:44:29,790 --> 00:44:48,570 The park location is conceptual is what the document says, and then also, there's a total number for the perihome properties and in the written, it also has total numbers for medium density and the high density. 486 00:44:48,570 --> 00:44:55,790 So DNC are both in the high-density and they have the total of 718, but there's no written densities 487 00:44:55,790 --> 00:44:59,230 There are for A and B, but not for C and D 488 00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:16,000 And so we would, you know, we treat those as they were kind of the estimate, like this is what we're going off of, but not a firm, like this is the number of those doing again, especially because the road has an aligned exactly as it was shown in stuff. It's just a little bit more ambiguous. 489 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,000 And the way the area comes right in it allows for that flexibility. 490 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:28,240 Well, I think I was going to mention at the beginning of the land use section of the area plan as it mentions density can be transferred within districts 491 00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:35,320 So this is all very district those two parcels or whatever medium density and they have a not to exceed which is A and B 492 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,440 Here there's separate 493 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:41,680 but C and D are part of the same district and density can be transferred between the two 494 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,820 But there is an underlying zoning that says no one in 20 is per acre 495 00:45:45,820 --> 00:45:49,500 So yeah, the few apartments, it's right at 20, it's per acre, 496 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:50,660 so that's a sense of safety. 497 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:51,820 I've got that. 498 00:45:51,860 --> 00:45:54,500 It's in the zone, but the area plan does say, 499 00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:56,940 since he can't be transferred within the district, 500 00:45:57,020 --> 00:46:00,340 we just can't exceed the underlying zoning district, 501 00:46:00,380 --> 00:46:03,420 which is a max of 20 years per acre for the high-pensive area. 502 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:04,220 That's correct. 503 00:46:04,420 --> 00:46:06,660 Now, not that we should be considering 504 00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:10,320 profits or anything like that, but if you look at, 505 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,040 you know, development rights here, 506 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,640 have more acreage for 75 units. 507 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:19,280 You can make more money per home if you're building larger homes or larger lots. 508 00:46:19,780 --> 00:46:24,160 So if they're decreasing some home sizes or commercial, there's a tray out there as well. 509 00:46:24,940 --> 00:46:27,900 And again, not that we should be getting into their profitability. 510 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:33,680 This is all really the area of climate management is we have an existing agreement within the area of climate. 511 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:39,980 The applicant hears proposing a new agreement to the area of climate, and it's up to you is the commission decide 512 00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:48,960 It was a good rationale to work with the proposed changes and obviously taking the public input and how that's for your consideration of the application. 513 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:59,980 So for clarity, if nothing changed, if the city council denied this, how many units can they put on D? 514 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,300 So yeah, yeah, I think we're understanding 75. 515 00:47:04,060 --> 00:47:04,520 75. 516 00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:10,780 Yeah, and that the C is built. 517 00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:16,100 Please keep your comments down on the public. 518 00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:17,160 Thank you. 519 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,800 So to clarify, there's a piece of property next to 520 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,780 Western Central Bank in the office building that's 521 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,300 undeveloped that when you look at the area planning app, 522 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,520 follow the thing that's called C. 523 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,880 But because the area planning allows density transfer 524 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,400 to districts, there's 75 units left between the 525 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,860 districts, but those units can be transferred anywhere within those districts, as long as they don't 526 00:47:39,860 --> 00:47:47,240 exceed the 20-inch breaker. That's me. So why can they transfer those 75 units elsewhere and still 527 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:55,180 build something here? Why isn't there some eating of those quantity of units for what they're trying to 528 00:47:55,180 --> 00:48:00,140 build here? And I guess you could, I mean. I know we can, but why wasn't that part of 529 00:48:00,140 --> 00:48:08,360 staff. I mean that seems natural. They're asking for something more. They say, hey, we 530 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,220 want these 75 units as well, but we also want to build something else here. Why 531 00:48:13,220 --> 00:48:17,620 was in that part of the discussion from staff at a staff level? 532 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:27,260 Well, idea this is they're posing a change to plan and that we use our flexible 533 00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:33,320 like what it's saying beforehand, not that we should be concerned with their profitability, but from their 534 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:39,020 side of things, if you can spread those 75 units out on more area, you can build larger units, 535 00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:44,460 which is more profitable for them. They still keep those 75 units, but they're smaller, smaller 536 00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:50,060 lots, they're less money that they get out of it, but they're making that up with the commercial 537 00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:55,940 So my land is going to be the reason that we as staff would like to change more. 538 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,020 Like this is putting housing along that is highway, like S192 is not ideal. 539 00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:06,360 I've heard complaints from the view of apartments being so close to the highway there and it's just not good planning practice. 540 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:12,260 You know, I've been done in a lot of places, it's not good planning practice, but housing is so close to highway. 541 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:19,720 Personally, I had piner crossing my back here and I can tell you it really does affect your quality of life and my solution does a lot more to us. 542 00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:25,520 It's a commercial axis, kind of a buffer between the highway and we're housing is over there. 543 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,920 It's 2A on the view of departments that are already built up next to the highway, 544 00:49:29,780 --> 00:49:32,880 but there's some of it, at least the land use practice there would. 545 00:49:36,910 --> 00:49:39,110 I'm getting into my opinion here. 546 00:49:40,310 --> 00:49:42,910 From a straight land use perspective, I agree. 547 00:49:43,090 --> 00:49:47,450 I mean, land use, commercial land use versus residential. 548 00:49:47,530 --> 00:49:51,810 If I were to actually weigh those out and say which one makes more sense right next to the highway, 549 00:49:51,810 --> 00:49:59,890 I agree commercial makes more sense. I don't love the way that we're going about this. I mean we've heard several 550 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:22,160 At these proposals of wanting to move things around in this area, I know we are not thinking about or talking about the other proposals that have come forward recently or in the past, but this seems to be a trend, particularly with one developer, right, that has brought these forward several times. 551 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:30,640 I also take a fence to your comment that someone from the public coming up here is a 552 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:36,860 de facto member of our commission or our council is actually incorrect and every member 553 00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:38,360 of the district is actually incorrect. 554 00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:43,280 Every member of the public is welcome to come, of course, harm a public comment. 555 00:50:44,420 --> 00:50:48,180 So that was not great to hear from you. 556 00:50:48,180 --> 00:50:54,820 We invite anyone to give their public comment and we encourage the public to come and comment 557 00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:00,940 This individual, but you have mentioned multiple times. Yes, has come and spoken a lot 558 00:51:00,940 --> 00:51:07,700 But we welcome that as well as anybody that would like to come and speak to this to the items that are on 559 00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:10,640 And so I did not love hearing that for me 560 00:51:11,620 --> 00:51:12,140 Tonight 561 00:51:12,140 --> 00:51:17,100 It did put me a little bit on the fence to be ice. It's okay 562 00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:22,960 I don't need you to read, but it's okay, I understand what you're saying as well, for the same reason. 563 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,620 So I just don't want to be one-sided in this presentation. 564 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,600 I just want to keep it to the facts of land use policy. 565 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,100 That's all we're asking. 566 00:51:34,540 --> 00:51:39,560 There was that individual as well as 19 others as well as another woman that came for understanding. 567 00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:43,420 And we welcome the public comment, I do not want that to ever be discouraged. 568 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,080 And I'm not discouraging in meeting. 569 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:52,060 I just wanted to set the record state straight that there were numerous things that were just 570 00:51:52,060 --> 00:51:53,180 not true. 571 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,300 And that's the word. 572 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:54,900 Thanks, Russ. 573 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:55,880 Thank you. 574 00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:57,900 Thank you. 575 00:51:58,380 --> 00:51:59,860 Any other questions for staff? 576 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:01,080 Comments? 577 00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:05,230 Laboration? 578 00:52:12,330 --> 00:52:12,570 Sure. 579 00:52:12,730 --> 00:52:15,230 I'll just go ahead and drop my thoughts at this point. 580 00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:24,230 I am very sensitive to the fact that there are strong emotions on both sides of this 581 00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:25,410 matter. 582 00:52:27,610 --> 00:52:36,270 I want both of you to both sides to understand that. And Perry Holmes has every 583 00:52:36,270 --> 00:52:38,590 to make requests. 584 00:52:41,330 --> 00:52:47,170 Also, we do have a standing agreement and moving the 585 00:52:47,170 --> 00:52:51,630 needle, changing it. It does require demonstrating that the high 586 00:52:51,630 --> 00:52:59,130 city stands to benefit a meaningful significant way, or that the change 587 00:52:59,130 --> 00:53:06,250 in plans in and of itself. I whether it's the high city getting or it's a 588 00:53:06,250 --> 00:53:10,870 was bad, a bad concept, and we have a demonstrably better plan. 589 00:53:14,270 --> 00:53:15,850 Considered on its own, I don't 590 00:53:15,850 --> 00:53:26,270 know that I would look at this change and say that it is worse. But if from what I can see, 591 00:53:26,350 --> 00:53:36,570 I see a very neutral, potentially, minimally positive, and to change an agreement for me as a 592 00:53:36,570 --> 00:53:45,570 I need to see something more than an abstract sense of an increased tax revenue that that comes in. 593 00:53:46,350 --> 00:53:49,750 Certainly not against a developer making money. 594 00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:52,870 That is sometimes built on a piece. 595 00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:58,690 In an incorrect way, it is how toppings move forward. 596 00:54:01,010 --> 00:54:11,330 But for me, I would need, and I would suggest Mr. Swain, as you go to the City Council, 597 00:54:15,090 --> 00:54:23,070 that there be a strong redemonstration of how this is going to really be a significantly better situation. 598 00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:31,310 I'm not seeing that currently and when I see a resolute opposition from all the citizens in this area to it 599 00:54:34,290 --> 00:54:36,310 I'm disinclined to 600 00:54:36,310 --> 00:54:39,350 to alter the agreement as currently stands. 601 00:54:40,510 --> 00:54:41,750 Okay. Thank you. 602 00:54:48,870 --> 00:54:50,650 Further input or identity motion? 603 00:54:52,110 --> 00:54:52,810 I'll make a motion. 604 00:54:52,810 --> 00:54:53,430 That's 605 00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:56,690 your point one. 606 00:54:56,930 --> 00:54:59,830 Public hand recommendation of Perry Karnsel Perry. 607 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:06,880 Commercials request review of an amendment, trevers, mountain area plan, changed approximately 5 to 8. 608 00:55:07,260 --> 00:55:12,360 Here's a tip of notice highway, mountain view, road from high-density residential, highway commercial. 609 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:25,300 I move that we send a negative recommendation to city council with the findings that this proposal. 610 00:55:25,300 --> 00:55:47,840 I does not significantly demonstrably create a better scenario of a situation for the city than what currently stands and that the current plan does reflect the sentiment of the citizen. 611 00:55:50,400 --> 00:56:01,300 And as this is a legislative action and not entitled to write, it behooves us to reflect the 612 00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:01,880 world of people. 613 00:56:06,490 --> 00:56:07,710 You all second up. 614 00:56:08,010 --> 00:56:08,870 Most of them in the second. 615 00:56:09,210 --> 00:56:09,730 All in favor. 616 00:56:10,510 --> 00:56:10,770 Aye. 617 00:56:11,250 --> 00:56:11,910 Any opposed? 618 00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:13,610 Aye. 619 00:56:13,610 --> 00:56:15,430 Would you repeat who was the second? 620 00:56:15,810 --> 00:56:16,090 Aye. 621 00:56:16,270 --> 00:56:16,870 Thank you. 622 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:20,400 Okay, this goes forward. 623 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,180 City Council, when does it get there? 624 00:56:30,930 --> 00:56:32,690 The 22nd, September 26th. 625 00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:34,490 September 22nd. 626 00:56:37,660 --> 00:56:45,020 3.2 has been withdrawn, so if you were here for item 3.2, we're still welcome you to stay, 627 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,200 but we will move forward to 3.3. 628 00:56:50,650 --> 00:56:54,330 Item 3.3, public hearing and recommendation of 629 00:56:54,330 --> 00:57:01,350 Jan Walker's request for review of R122 zoning for the pasture walk annexation on 4.4 acres, 630 00:57:01,350 --> 00:57:04,530 located approximately 900 North 1,000 West. 631 00:57:05,650 --> 00:57:08,350 So this is the aerial for context, 632 00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:13,890 wanting to annex in those 4.4 acres. 633 00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:21,770 So Scherminder for annexations, it first goes to City Council for Resolution of Intent 634 00:57:21,770 --> 00:57:30,050 annex, and then it comes to you for review of the zoning. So they're posing the R122 zoning 635 00:57:30,050 --> 00:57:37,590 on it, which is consistent with the general plan designation of VLDR, very low density residential 636 00:57:37,590 --> 00:57:39,810 agriculture, it'd be about half acre watts. 637 00:57:42,610 --> 00:57:47,170 And the DRC comment to be aware of is a comment 638 00:57:47,170 --> 00:57:54,330 include this UTA parcel in the annexation. You've come in as TH5, but just totally clean up 639 00:57:54,330 --> 00:57:59,590 that county island. So if you could include that in your motion, then I'll turn it back 640 00:57:59,590 --> 00:58:03,030 or in questions. Thank you, Brittany. Any questions for staff? 641 00:58:06,190 --> 00:58:07,210 Is the applicant present? 642 00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:15,130 You're welcome to come up and add anything or leave it as is. 643 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,520 Okay. Okay. Thank you. 644 00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:23,900 This is a public hearing. 645 00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:30,720 We will invite anyone from the public here to speak to item 3.3 to come up and do so now. 646 00:58:35,060 --> 00:58:35,640 Just the check. 647 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,320 I don't believe there were any comments online. 648 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,140 See, then we will close the public hearing. 649 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,320 Bring it back for further deliberation or a motion. 650 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:51,320 I'm ready to put for a motion, right on 3.3, put the care of recommendation of 651 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:52,340 Janay. 652 00:58:52,580 --> 00:58:54,780 I apologize if I mispronounce your name. 653 00:58:55,580 --> 00:58:55,840 Janay. 654 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:56,380 Thank you. 655 00:58:56,660 --> 00:59:01,680 Walker's request for a view of R1.2 zoning for the pasture walk and 656 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:06,360 taxation on 4.4 acres located approximately 900 north, 1,000 west. 657 00:59:08,140 --> 00:59:12,380 The recommendation being that we approve this particular item because it 658 00:59:12,380 --> 00:59:16,620 that it does conform with the goals and policies of the general plan and please include those 659 00:59:16,620 --> 00:59:17,920 various DRC comments. 660 00:59:19,420 --> 00:59:19,900 That's that, Ken. 661 00:59:21,380 --> 00:59:21,780 Great. 662 00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:23,140 Thank you. 663 00:59:23,140 --> 00:59:24,840 Thank you for being able to study the second. 664 00:59:25,140 --> 00:59:25,920 That would be very helpful. 665 00:59:26,340 --> 00:59:30,220 So we have a motion from Beau, any second from Greg. 666 00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:32,440 All in favor. 667 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:33,620 Hi. 668 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:34,820 Any opposed? 669 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:37,280 Thank you. 670 00:59:39,690 --> 00:59:42,890 And will this fall still be on the 22nd? 671 00:59:44,890 --> 00:59:47,930 Tisha, you verify that one because it's the annexation. 672 00:59:48,030 --> 00:59:50,650 I don't know what day has to go because of the spacing. 673 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,480 We do have to schedule public hearing, so this will not make it to the 20 second. It will have to be that first meeting in October. 674 01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:13,400 The first city council in October. Thank you. Item 3.4. 675 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:26,400 Item 3.4. Public hearing and recommendation of Nick Nelson's request for a view of the Nelson's own change, changing the zone from CH5 to A1, 676 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,500 located at 1193 North's 2300 West. 677 01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:34,560 So this is the General Plan, 678 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,640 Mary-Low Density Residential Agriculture. 679 01:00:39,220 --> 01:00:42,940 So the A1 zoning is also consistent with that. 680 01:00:42,940 --> 01:00:44,080 One acre lot, 681 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,580 it's approximately 1.7. 682 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,540 Well, I think it is supposed to be 1.75 acres that 683 01:00:54,540 --> 01:01:01,520 be changing, but they're doing a lot line adjustment, so this lot doesn't currently reflect 684 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:08,180 it, but it won't be what's shown as all of this, but yeah, it'll be that 1.75 acres, 685 01:01:08,980 --> 01:01:13,640 and it's like in build when single-family home on it. And with that, I'll turn it back to the commission 686 01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,900 for any questions. Thank you, Brittany. Any questions for staff? 687 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:20,360 Is the applicant present? 688 01:01:24,660 --> 01:01:25,420 Is there 689 01:01:25,420 --> 01:01:32,520 If you want to talk about the public hearing, anybody here to speak to item 3.4, we'll open the public hearing now and invite you to speak to this item. 690 01:01:34,670 --> 01:01:37,210 Confirming there was no public comment. 691 01:01:38,610 --> 01:01:39,130 On line. 692 01:01:39,530 --> 01:01:39,950 Nope, there was. 693 01:01:40,030 --> 01:01:41,330 Thank you. 694 01:01:41,770 --> 01:01:46,050 Then we will close the public hearing to bring it back for further collaboration or emotion. 695 01:01:50,090 --> 01:01:50,590 Go ahead. 696 01:01:50,730 --> 01:01:50,930 Sorry. 697 01:01:51,370 --> 01:01:51,390 Sorry. 698 01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:59,610 I'll make a motion on item 3.4 public hearing and recommendation of Nick Nelson's request for review of the Nelson's 699 01:01:59,610 --> 01:02:07,450 change, changing the zone from TH5 to A1, located at 1193 North, 2300 West. I 700 01:02:07,450 --> 01:02:14,870 move that we give a positive recommendation with the findings that the effect of 701 01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:19,510 the proposed amendment on the character of the surrounding area is positive. It's 702 01:02:19,510 --> 01:02:23,990 consistent with the general goals and policies. Sorry, the goals and policies of 703 01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:35,470 general plan. And please include all the RC comets. Second, we have a, excuse me, I'm 704 01:02:35,470 --> 01:02:45,730 a motion by Nicole and a second, but follow my own favor. Hi. Any opposed? Thank you. 705 01:02:46,350 --> 01:02:51,290 Will this also be the first one in October, Tisha? No, this can be September 20th. Oh, September 706 01:02:51,290 --> 01:02:54,210 That annexation just has state and choir. 707 01:02:54,590 --> 01:02:54,970 Understood. 708 01:02:58,180 --> 01:02:58,520 Okay. 709 01:02:59,320 --> 01:02:59,620 Okay. 710 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:00,740 Thank you. 711 01:03:01,700 --> 01:03:02,420 City business. 712 01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:08,330 Everything was shared. 713 01:03:09,650 --> 01:03:11,410 We signed it with a more discussion at all. 714 01:03:12,410 --> 01:03:12,570 All right. 715 01:03:12,610 --> 01:03:14,410 We might cancel our session next week. 716 01:03:14,650 --> 01:03:14,910 I know. 717 01:03:15,250 --> 01:03:15,430 Yes. 718 01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:16,090 We may. 719 01:03:17,310 --> 01:03:17,870 Okay. 720 01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:19,230 Was that in question? 721 01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:23,030 I will be here. 722 01:03:23,230 --> 01:03:24,670 I will be here. 723 01:03:26,170 --> 01:03:29,050 I will entertain a motion to adjourn. 724 01:03:29,290 --> 01:03:30,470 What's my turn? 725 01:03:30,790 --> 01:03:32,130 Can I make a motion to adjourn? 726 01:03:32,670 --> 01:03:32,730 Can I make a motion to adjourn? 727 01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:35,650 You may make a motion. 728 01:03:37,310 --> 01:03:40,130 Oh, did you make a motion to adjourn? 729 01:03:41,330 --> 01:03:42,110 Second string. 730 01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:45,770 All right, we have a motion by Polo in a second by Nicole. 731 01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:47,150 All in favor. 732 01:03:47,770 --> 01:03:48,170 All right. 733 01:03:48,310 --> 01:03:48,970 Any opposed? 734 01:03:54,700 --> 01:03:55,480 Exactly right.