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[snorts]
>> Thank you all for coming. I am filling

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00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:11,960
in for the president, Mr. Darko, who's
not able to be here tonight.

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Um we will open the public hearing to
the 2026-03.

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00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:23,080
Oops, sorry. Case mission 2026-03
for

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00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:27,280
an application for re-plat, and the
public hearing is open.

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» Do you want to do the agenda first, sir?
>> Um

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» Google.
>> No.

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» Okay.
>> the public hearing first.

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» First.
>> Yeah, and then we do the meeting.

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» Okay.

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00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:41,360
» So, go ahead.
>> Yeah, so before you guys tonight is a a

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re-plat including waivers
for the address 10222

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00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:51,800
River View Drive, the Indiana parcel
number

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00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,800
0203352-033.

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I do have all the documentation
in your packet, including the

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application,
the waivers uh that are included in that

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are requests procedurally
to remove some requirements, and the

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00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:14,520
requirements
are that many of the things that we

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00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:18,960
require as part of our re-plat are not
can't be done because other agencies

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don't do them. We are one of the We are
the only agency that requires it to go

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00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:27,640
through a primary and a secondary within
our code.

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00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:32,240
Um so, the waiver would would
basically eliminate the need for a

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00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:38,320
second meeting 45 days if you guys so
choose to approve that.

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So, that is what's in front of you. Uh
it would still be required, if it's

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00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:46,640
approved tonight, the waivers and the
primary

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00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:51,320
and um
it would still be required to go to the

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town council for final approval.

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So,
I can explain more of that if you have

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any specific questions, but
procedurally, we're most

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00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:04,800
areas only require one meeting for a
replat,

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00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,280
and the town of Leo Cedar Hill still
requires two.

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00:02:10,119 --> 00:02:16,120
» If you have a question, can you sign in
on

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00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,120
and then go up and ask your questions?

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00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,160
So, the
when you say a replat, is that just mean

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00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:32,920
you're dividing up
>> Yep, so it's just a basically a parcel

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split, and I started getting to it here,
and then my my s-

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00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:38,800
time hit. Give me 1 second, and I'll
throw it on the screen so you guys can

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00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,840
see what what it is.
>> Is this one person?

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00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:46,760
» Yes,
as long as it has the easement at the

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end.
>> It does.

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00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,760
» Yep.

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00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:59,640
All right, it'd be on the west edge, far
west edge of the parcel, against the

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00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,000
pine trees that are there now.
>> Each

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00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,800
» What?

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00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,417
There's one there.
>> [clears throat and cough]

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00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:33,440
» There's a lot.

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00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,200
I'm sorry. I was just There's a lot.

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» We need to stand at the microphone
>> Yeah,

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00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:50,800
if you guys can stand at the microphone
when you guys go to talk, so that way we

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00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,800
can make sure we get it recorded.

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00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,840
Sorry, I know it's a lot of procedure,
but it has to go out live, so.

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00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,400
» Do you have any other questions I can
help you with?

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00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,359
Okay, my only other question is this is
a gift to us.

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00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,359
What's your name?
>> Your name?

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00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,320
» Okay, McAllen.
>> Okay.

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00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,680
» Um
if you leave it next to us and then your

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00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:31,240
parents pass
I just want to make sure that they can't

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00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:34,200
divide that period and put bonds on
another house on the lot.

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00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,880
» Uh I don't believe they'd have enough
square footage with what I see there to

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00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,080
get that done.
Um basically the house that they're

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00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:44,400
sitting on that lot is going to take up
a good portion of that square footage

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00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:49,200
with the rear setback requirements, the
rear easement, the side easement, and

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00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:53,440
then the front setback requirements.
Though it says it's 0.736

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00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,840
acre,
there's not that much left to build on

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00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:01,520
when it really comes down to it, to be
honest. So, they would have to It'd be

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00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,240
I don't think it could be done, to be
honest. It would I I would never say

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00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,800
never, it would but it it would be very
hard in the current situation.

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00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,680
So.
>> So, we trust these guys but something

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00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,800
would happen
I just want to know that nobody else is

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going to come in and
>> I I don't know.

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00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,320
» and build like
>> Yeah.

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00:05:16,919 --> 00:05:22,720
» three houses down there.
>> No, I don't see how that could be done.

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00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,640
» if you're going to comment, you got to
come up front.

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00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,320
» Okay.
>> So,

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00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,280
yeah, I I I just don't see how that
could be done, to be honest.

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00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,240
» Okay.
>> I would never say never, but looking at

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all the setback and rear boundary lines
and the rear it just it'd be hard.

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00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,560
» Thank you.

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00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,160
» Really hard.

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00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:48,360
» For just a minute say my name the first
time. Um

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00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:53,480
the passage of just a couple months ago
of a square [snorts] footage

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00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:58,680
per lot. But could that ever affect the
rest of the houses on that street?

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00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:01,760
» So, cuz what was like 8,250? So, that's
that's a different zoning

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00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:04,360
classification. So, this is an R3,
that'd been an R5.

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00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,160
» What does that fall under?
>> Uh so, R5 is essentially set up for

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00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:14,040
multi-family.
Uh where you got to have over 8,000 or

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00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:20,080
8,000 square foot per uh family unit. Um
this is R3, and I believe it's 9,000

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00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:25,120
square foot requirement per lot.
Um so, while I again, while I get there

89
00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:28,720
it'd be a really small house to go in
there if they were

90
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:31,320
» No, no, I agree. I didn't know if that
would affect or could affect any of the

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00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,640
other houses.
>> No. No. So, that's it's already zoned.

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00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:39,360
It's not zoned R5, it's zoned R3
currently.

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00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,360
» Okay. All right, very good.

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00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,120
» Is there any more questions from the
public?

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00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:56,919
Then we will close the public hearing.
And we will now open in the regular

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00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,919
Planning Commission meeting.

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00:06:58,549 --> 00:07:02,640
» [clears throat]
>> I will take a motion for approval of the

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00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,600
agenda with flexibility.
>> So moved.

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00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,120
» Second.
>> Second.

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00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,640
» You second that, Randy?
Is that right?

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00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,040
» Yeah.
>> And Jerry and Randy seconded it at the

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00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,680
same
>> All in favor?

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00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,919
» Aye.
>> Aye.

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00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:23,240
» I will take a motion to review and
approve the meeting minutes from the

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00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:29,520
August 2026 meeting.
>> I make a motion we approve the minutes

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00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,520
from the previous meeting.

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00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,040
» Great. I second that.
All in favor?

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00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,160
» Aye.
>> Aye.

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00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:43,200
» We just had the public hearing for PC
2026-03.

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00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:51,520
And now Tyler will present review or the
finding of facts for waivers and the

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00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:56,760
finding of facts for the replat.
>> So, uh before you have a finding fact

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00:07:54,040 --> 00:08:01,320
that uh for the waivers they requested
um as part of that it says the requested

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00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:05,120
waivers are intended to facilitate
the review and approval process of the

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00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:09,040
replat while we were uh recognizing the
nature and circumstances of the property

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00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,840
and pro- proposed platting action. The
approval of these findings allows the

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00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,480
commission to approve the primary and
secondary plats in the same meeting as

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00:08:13,919 --> 00:08:18,880
all documents have been turned in and
reviews have been complete. Uh

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00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,880
essentially it goes through and it it
says that uh this positive finding of

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00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,720
facts says that the
uh

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00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,840
that you guys have no objections with
the

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00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:35,159
waving them and and it's really the like
25 copies of

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00:08:32,719 --> 00:08:40,520
the plat to be turned in.
Um procedurally it would require a

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00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:43,039
sign-off from the Allen County um
surveyor's office. Well, the surveyor's

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00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,480
office won't review it because it's
already a plat and it's already been

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00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,640
approved, so they're not coming back to
review it. So,

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00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:54,400
uh each one of those is is along those
lines. It's very specifically tied to a

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00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:57,320
certain approval that is not needed um
because

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uh it
it is already in a plat.

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00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:07,280
The only one that you will find in your
packet is the uh sewer or sewer

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00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:11,480
district. The sewer district gave them
one more ERU, so there's already one ERU

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00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,839
on that property.
With the split, they'll need a second

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00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:19,160
ERU and the and the sewer district has
approved that.

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00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:22,680
The waivers also eliminate the 45-day
waiting period, and that's really for

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00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:26,160
infrastructure improvement. There's no
infrastructure improvement with the

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00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:30,839
replat. It is literally putting a line
on a piece of paper and actually for

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00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:36,160
them two lines a adding easement line to
the east edge.

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00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,160
Um you guys have any questions on that?

138
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:46,840
» I wanted to have a hearing to approve
the signing effects for the waivers.

139
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,560
» I'd like to make a motion that we
approve the

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00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:56,880
PC 26-03.
We have four 10222 Riverview Drive.

141
00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,920
» I'll second it.
>> And that was just for the waiver court.

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00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,720
» Yeah, that's the waiver.
>> Okay, thank you.

143
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,800
» All in favor?
>> Aye.

144
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:13,080
» So, the second one is the actual finding
of facts for the lot. Um

145
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:16,480
and basically it says that it goes
through each one of the questions that

146
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:22,000
it's not interest to the community, that
property values will actually be helped

147
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:25,440
in that area with the new houses. Um
and that it is consistent with our

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00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:29,200
envision planning in there. You guys can
read through each of those. It is a

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00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:36,240
positive finding effect. If you guys
choose to vote no, then I will make some

150
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,240
adjustments to it and sign it then.

151
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:43,440
» I got [snorts] one question and I don't
know what at what point in the meeting I

152
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:47,240
can ask it. Can you move that drawing
so we can see the uh

153
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,400
uh
what's it

154
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:57,360
There you go. There you go.
Okay, if I'm if I'm

155
00:10:55,400 --> 00:11:04,480
seeing this right and you're looking at
the lot lines,

156
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,480
that street is on private property.

157
00:11:04,839 --> 00:11:11,120
So,
>> Well, there's an easement in there.

158
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:14,800
» Okay. So, there is an easement there.
>> Yes.

159
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,320
For the turnaround?
>> Yeah.

160
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,440
» Yeah, that turnaround that
>> Yeah.

161
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:23,280
» It just to me seems like it shouldn't be
on a

162
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,240
a private property cuz now you're going
to improve and it's on private property

163
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,280
or improving it.
>> So, there would be an easement with that

164
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:33,680
street.
>> And it's already there. It's in

165
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:39,360
» I I did not it, but I would guess that
it is, yes. It was done prior to my

166
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:43,000
existence, so
>> Well,

167
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,000
okay.

168
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:50,360
» That's that's one thing that I
that I don't really care for right

169
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,360
there, but

170
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,160
And we can dry out prior discussion with
>> him about this stuff? Did you have a

171
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,120
prior discussion with him about this
stuff?

172
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,840
» No.
>> Okay.

173
00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,360
» Not that.
>> Okay.

174
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:05,480
» I did ask who
Uh I did ask the title company about who

175
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:08,120
maintained the street.
>> Yeah.

176
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:12,160
» So, I would guess and I can go back and
look and I'm assuming that if it's if

177
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,160
it's that if that's a sticking point, I
can add it as a contingency in the

178
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,880
finding of facts
that

179
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:21,560
we ensure that that easement exists for
that roadway. It does not change their

180
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,160
build lines or anything like that. They
would just have to get us an easement

181
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,880
and
uh

182
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,560
drawing in for that.
>> Okay, it's just a technicality that

183
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,680
» Yeah.
>> somewhere down the road it could come to

184
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,640
bite you if somebody wanted to be really
uh

185
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,440
stickler about things.
>> Are we not able

186
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,400
» How long is it going to take you to
check that?

187
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,440
» Uh I'd have to reach out to them.
The

188
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,440
» Okay.
>> It's going to take It's not It's not a

189
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,040
phone call. It's not a phone
>> Okay.

190
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,320
» No, it was not a phone call.
>> Okay.

191
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,240
» Uh
>> Maybe.

192
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,839
» Cuz I thought we would see his name on
there.

193
00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,000
I could be wrong.
>> Let me go to land guide.

194
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,720
I didn't know if it was something we had
back in our prior meetings.

195
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,699
» Mhm.
>> Let me go to land guide. That'll tell

196
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,719
me.
>> [clears throat]

197
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,160
» Send me an email if you have any
questions.

198
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:21,040
» I have to go to Ashley What's What's the
average

199
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,040
um lot size in that area?

200
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:27,520
» That's a good question.
>> The average lot size in that area?

201
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:33,240
Uh just shy of an acre.
So, 0.8 to 0.94 96.

202
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:37,320
» Do these fit within the averages?
>> They're pretty close. I mean, they're

203
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,520
0.76, I think, is the smaller one.
And 0.89 [clears throat] is the bigger

204
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,480
one. So,
they're within the averages in that

205
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,720
area.
So, to be fair,

206
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:51,240
that whole turnaround is not on It's So,
the north half of that is in city of

207
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,920
Fort Wayne property
and it's not a public easement and the

208
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:59,840
south half is on their property. So,
basically, the whole

209
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:04,640
turnaround is
outside of easements.

210
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,640
» Okay.

211
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:12,400
» So, like I said, we can ask them to add
that an easement line around there. I

212
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,400
don't know that it's going to be

213
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:18,280
Actually, I take that back.
The other easement went through it.

214
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,200
» I
>> Yeah.

215
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,200
» Yeah.

216
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,160
I think it's
>> Well, no, the other easement was on the

217
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,480
other side of it. It doesn't matter.
It's not on that side of it.

218
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,680
» It's not on that side.
>> No, it actually included the roadway

219
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,920
right in here. That's where the old
easement line went through.

220
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,880
So, right in there.
>> Okay.

221
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,640
» So, basically, that's all on pri- That
whole end is on private property.

222
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:52,440
So, again, we can have them add that
line as part of the the findings of fact

223
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and that would be acceptable
as a change. It'd just take them a

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a week or so to probably have that line
added as part of the deal, but it would

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not change their ownership line. It'd
just be an easement line.

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» Does there have to be
>> Huh?

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» Does there have to be a turnaround
there?

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» Uh, recommended, yes.
>> Just asking.

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» That's technically small, which is
probably why it's all on private

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property. That's why it is small.

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Well, with the replat, there's not
infrastructure improvements. So,

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» [sighs]
>> and I don't

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have permission from the city of Fort
Wayne to improve either.

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» Yeah.
>> So, if that's something you guys want to

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consider, we can add that as a
contingency on the finding of fact and

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basically when they have that done, I'll
review it

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and we can finalize the sign off if
that's what you like.

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» That sounds fair.
>> It's up to you guys.

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I would recommend
>> [snorts]

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» a motion to do that and then

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» So, you're saying have a motion for um
approving the replat with the

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contingency of getting easements for
around the roundabout.

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» Yep.
>> On the their property section.

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» In village, you don't have to do
nothing, but on your folks' part is

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another regrow.

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Is that a big issue to do that or
>> I'm assuming it'll cost them money. I

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don't know.

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» What's the worst case if we don't do it?
It's just It's just there.

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» If we never go back in and we wanted to
improve the roadway, we'd have to

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request
at that point we'd go in and say, "If

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you like for us to do it, we're going to
have to gain garner easements." So, we

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can do it easily now or we can do it as
part of the contingency of the replat or

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we can go back in later if we choose to
do it and garner easements. It's up to

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you.
>> Well, like we talked the other day, that

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road needs just a little bit of
uh

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TLC right now, so
What's the odds of us doing that though?

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Especially with funds the way they are.
We got a lot more roads than than that

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little turn around.
>> we got to worry about right now.

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» I know. It's
>> For the seven cars that drive it.

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» Yeah, the seven cars.
>> It's in the future, but what I'm saying

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is
you know, it's going to need some

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uh work down the road here.
>> So, I would just suggest that you make a

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that the motion is if that's the way
you're going to go then I would make a

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motion that states that
they add a redraw.

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» So moved.
>> Can't do that.

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» At this point I think
I'll make a motion

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» He made a So you have a motion
>> Did you put that as a motion?

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» Yeah, but I
>> Yeah. Okay, and as a redraw

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» Yeah.
>> Yep, to add that easement to dead end.

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» They're added and go ahead and approve
the replat or wait?

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00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,720
» No, it's always one. So to approve the
replat with the redraw.

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» very good. That's what I didn't know.
>> So we're not going to have to meet

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again.
>> That's the goal.

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» Yeah.
>> So is that a second Jerry to his?

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» Yeah.
>> Okay, does that make sense to you Angela

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that they're going to

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approve the replat by adding the
easement around the turn around on the

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turn around on their property.
>> All in favor?

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00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:15,160
» I.
>> I abstain. I I wasn't following the

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00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,520
» Did you ask to discuss
>> No.

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00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,360
Over my head.

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00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,120
» All right.

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00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,720
Now we need to do the last one.
>> So do the secondary, right? Okay, I just

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00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,880
want to make sure I'm going the right
>> Yep.

285
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:40,080
» Okay, so now that the first is cleared
then we will go ahead to entertain a

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00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,920
motion to review the secondary plat.
Um now that the waivers have been

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00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:45,080
approved so we do not have to go through
all of this again.

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00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,200
» So moved.
>> Great.

289
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,840
» Second it.

290
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,080
» All in favor?
>> I. I abstain.

291
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,480
» Old business.
>> So Zoneco received uh approval from the

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00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,960
town council at the last town council
meeting. We are finalizing the contracts

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00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:11,480
right now. I would expect to meet with
them in person or meet with them via

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00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:17,200
Zoom probably in the
uh next week or two, uh, depending on

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00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:20,120
their schedule and our office schedule.
Um, they are eager eager to get going.

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00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,240
Um,
they they reached out today and we shot

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00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:28,320
a couple emails back and forth. They're
excited to help us out and hopefully

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00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:32,640
uh, clear up some of the confusion like
we have with replats and all that other

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00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,560
stuff. So, um,
as soon as we get them the finalized

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00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,640
contract, which has been signed, it just
hasn't been sent over yet, then we will

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00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,760
be good to go.
So, I'm excited to get it moving. It's

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00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:48,200
looking like an 8-month timeline from
start to finish.

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00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:52,760
So, and I have the full timeline laid
out if you guys would like to see it

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00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,760
after the meeting, I can pull it.

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00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,560
So, that's all I have on that. Any
questions for me?

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» Does anybody have any other business?

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Our next meeting is October 13th, 2026
and if there is