1 00:07:57,900 --> 00:07:59,060 Thank you. All 2 00:08:02,330 --> 00:08:11,680 right, so I'm going to call this meeting to order if we're all ready. It's 830, so we'll call it. 3 00:08:13,780 --> 00:08:14,080 Oh, 4 00:08:16,930 --> 00:08:32,150 I'd like to say all Lexington County committees are being broadcast live on Lexington County Spectrum Channel 1302 and Lexington County's website meeting portal. The committee meetings film today will be available for viewing anytime on demand at our county website. 5 00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:36,290 By the end of today, 6 00:08:36,290 --> 00:08:43,110 purposes meetings to review the land available manual in regards to the proposed text and ultimately make a recommendation to plan a commission. 7 00:08:43,870 --> 00:08:49,390 In Council's plan to retreat in March, concerns are raised about the impacts of new development areas surrounding Lake Murray. 8 00:08:50,290 --> 00:08:56,390 So as part of that discussion, Council asked staff to explore better focus planning efforts and provide additional 9 00:08:56,390 --> 00:08:59,370 additional protections that make the lake. 10 00:09:00,170 --> 00:09:05,510 So when response staff has drafted this proposal to provide additional protections for areas 11 00:09:05,510 --> 00:09:09,610 around Lake Murray with particular attention to the watersheds and drainage areas that 12 00:09:09,610 --> 00:09:10,370 flow into the lake. 13 00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:12,790 And so that's what we're reading on this yesterday. 14 00:09:14,530 --> 00:09:15,830 Changes were buffers. 15 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:17,610 We're going to be increased by 40 percent. 16 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,740 Identity curtains are going to be required for 17 00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:28,690 all those projects that were 25 acres or 18 00:09:28,690 --> 00:09:29,110 less to. 19 00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:29,850 Now, 20 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,700 after-year-old stream protections. Right now, we got intermittent and perennial. 21 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,720 I'll let you all discuss what we got in red. Red text is the change text. Black 22 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,800 text is already in the Land Development Manual. 23 00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:55,060 I'm hoping everyone has had an opportunity to read those. I know David, you had some 24 00:09:55,060 --> 00:09:59,640 comments and maybe we could just start with whoever wanted to. 25 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:14,880 Make some comments or open up, we'll just open up that discussion. Or actually, if I may, was I supposed to call out, is there any old business that we need to talk about? We're going to have anything on the agenda, but I don't know. 26 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Now we'll move into the discussion of this proposed ordinance, 2016. 27 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:25,100 16. 28 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:37,800 As I said in an email but I wanted to present it here was that I believe the overall 29 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:43,820 direction of the ordinance will provide stronger protection for Lake Murray. I did have some 30 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:52,840 comments that I don't know if they would be considered over the next quarter and brought 31 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,780 back, but I can go over those comments. 32 00:10:58,560 --> 00:10:59,120 I've 33 00:11:02,860 --> 00:11:07,000 proposed to define the act of the disturbance 34 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:13,540 areas and final stabilization if it's not already, and if I've missed it in other portions, 35 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:23,180 forgive me, but I added some language to define the disturbance, also prevent phasing from 36 00:11:23,180 --> 00:11:32,760 being used to bypass disturbance limits. Established watershed mapping procedures and forgive 37 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:40,480 me if that's already in there. It might be. Add clear limits and approval criteria for 38 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:47,600 the viewsheds. Add measurable standards for buffer mitigation and replacement plantings. 39 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,360 to find what constitutes a development that immediately joins. 40 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,780 Add specific protection measures for the ephemeral streams. 41 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,460 Make enhanced PMP requirements measurable and objective. 42 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,980 Add inspection and maintenance requirements for enhanced BMPs. 43 00:12:09,020 --> 00:12:12,900 Require written justification for approvals, waivers, and exceptions. 44 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:19,040 provisions, add long-term maintenance and enforcement provisions, clarify that the 45 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:25,500 more protective requirements govern if conflict exists, and add severability, language 46 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,100 to protect the ordinance if a provision is challenged. 47 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:36,540 So, what's the best way to submit the specific red lines that, um, considering? 48 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:44,040 If you have specific red lines, we just need to walk through what those are. 49 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:53,000 We have your comments, but yeah, what specifically need to change we can talk about and at some point if we in the discussion 50 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:53,900 I guess we 51 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,340 Got a recommend if if we all 52 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,020 define changes that would you want us to take? 53 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,780 Let's let's put a pin in your comments and get everyone else's comments and then wait we can 54 00:13:10,780 --> 00:13:10,880 Thank you. 55 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:12,180 Thank you. 56 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,040 Our recommendations are one. 57 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,000 F needs to go back rework those in. 58 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,720 Is that act to us or is it going to 59 00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:36,750 any adjustment to the writing? 60 00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:40,140 Right. 61 00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:40,880 It should 62 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:49,820 and they would tell us if they want to change anything in the text based off of these recommendations. 63 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,320 With that, Alan, I see you've got some markups. 64 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,880 I may just call you out and say, why don't you go next? 65 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:10,190 but first paragraph under section 3.7 where it defines the Lake Murray special protection area, 66 00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:16,610 it states that these design requirements shall specifically apply to still want to run off 67 00:14:17,530 --> 00:14:22,610 for all new development within 75 feet of the three. 68 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,880 I'm reading that to me that means everything 69 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:34,300 under that this zone, this section, limited to 75 foot of 3.61. 70 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,180 And if the discharge is within. 71 00:14:40,010 --> 00:14:40,150 Correct. 72 00:14:40,390 --> 00:14:44,050 If it is discharging within 75 foot of 3.61, 73 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,420 the additional text below goes into all of 74 00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:55,100 the water shed's listed, 75 00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:57,780 most of which. 76 00:15:00,110 --> 00:15:03,830 All of them, majority of those watersheds aren't with them. 77 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:32,500 I read that as, typically, within 75 feet, you have those provisions, and then once you go into the watershed definition, or talked about, and everything below that would be additional. I would, I would think there would need to be some level of break. So a 3.7.2 should start the section about the watersheds. So that breaks it apart in the two separate 78 00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:34,520 special settings instead of the. 79 00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:36,880 Have the intention, they're Matt. 80 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:55,270 So what you're probably circling back to David's exact word changes, but you recommend 81 00:15:55,270 --> 00:15:58,950 a 3.6.2 be right here at lower camping creep. 82 00:15:59,170 --> 00:16:05,350 Three, seven, two, yeah, that way it's creating two separate special section here. 83 00:16:05,710 --> 00:16:11,190 And a special specific, these specific design requirements are for the ones that discharge 84 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:17,890 75 feet and closer and then 3.7 point two is talking about all the things you do if you're in 85 00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:20,670 any of these watersheds. 86 00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:25,830 Because essentially if you're within 75 foot lake both will apply, but 87 00:16:28,890 --> 00:16:30,780 but if you're if you're right here 88 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:38,440 3000 feet away but you're in that watershed, these will apply, the water quality erosion prevention 89 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,800 So there is a lot of language in this new section that is Lake Murray specific. 90 00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:49,520 That's what this is intended to protect. 91 00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:53,000 But I can't have one. 92 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,380 One is governed by 75 feet the other. 93 00:16:58,220 --> 00:16:58,820 I 94 00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:05,170 know we've had a lot of discussion on the maximum disturbance. 95 00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:14,150 A bridge will have a lot of heartburn when we cap it without any chance to go 96 00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:19,970 above and beyond, whether it's further design, more requirements, more buffering. 97 00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:26,910 Just for an example, the Amazon facility over in Casey, that's a million square foot 98 00:17:26,910 --> 00:17:27,230 building. 99 00:17:27,290 --> 00:17:30,890 That's 23 acres, plus or minus, under a roof. 100 00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:40,460 But to say, a project can't disturb more than 25 at a time, that's 101 00:17:46,260 --> 00:17:46,920 sending the project 102 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:52,040 through us, additional planning, additional engineering requirements, just a hard cap. 103 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:53,820 With that, 104 00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:03,030 because when you limit it to 25 acres, it actually slows down the development 105 00:18:03,030 --> 00:18:03,510 process. 106 00:18:03,550 --> 00:18:07,610 You actually have more potential, four more run-off, so there needs to be some level of additional 107 00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:12,410 BNPs or engineering involved to follow the standard 50-acre maximum disturbance. 108 00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:17,250 You can have a size project, especially in these areas where you've got several creeks that 109 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:18,070 kind of come together. 110 00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:23,370 you could have multiple discharge points in the project. It would make 111 00:18:26,410 --> 00:18:29,150 more sense to have it per 112 00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:35,570 discharge point, where if you've got a ridge in the middle and you limit 25 acres, well, you're 113 00:18:35,570 --> 00:18:39,110 limiting what you can do to protect the backside of a project. 114 00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:49,800 Where would that, well, we can circle 115 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,720 to it, but I got you no hard cap as was one thing you're correct. 116 00:19:01,420 --> 00:19:03,660 If we're going to require an additional 117 00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:13,540 increase in buffers I'd be or a port of a we can say what that buffer is instead of saying it's 118 00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:18,980 40% of something else to have to go hunt that down especially if we're talking about a potential 119 00:19:18,980 --> 00:19:24,200 code rewrite in general down the road maybe that chapter is not the same chapter in a code rewrite 120 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:32,980 but the source all in one location for what this is from a design standpoint makes it a lot easier to 121 00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:42,820 So instead of saying something like watercolour buffers from chapter 7 will be increased 122 00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:43,760 40%. 123 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,980 Say it's a hundred and twenty feet. 124 00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:49,070 Question. 125 00:19:49,470 --> 00:19:54,590 There's no question about averaging and what if you need to change something later you're 126 00:19:54,590 --> 00:19:55,930 I'm trying to find it multiple places. 127 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:20,580 And I almost feel like some of the turbidity curtain requirements are like Murray, that those need to be moved up into the 7.1 category where it's in like Murray specific within 75 feet. If you're not discharging within 75 feet, as 128 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:34,330 this says, if you're immediately adjoining Lake Murray, so that would, that should be in the other section of me. We're adding things into the news section that should be applied to the first section. 129 00:20:34,330 --> 00:20:35,090 Unless 130 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,800 this is unless 131 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:54,990 this was intended for even if the discharge the actual discharge points or sale 132 00:20:56,050 --> 00:20:58,350 But the property adjoins like Murray 133 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,960 because you have you still have like frontage 134 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:08,920 So you wouldn't you wouldn't have to do these other things, but if you're joined like Murray 135 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:16,450 There's your curtains around wherever yeah, we're okay, even if you're sheep flowing 100 feet 136 00:21:17,210 --> 00:21:18,830 That kind of what it was going for 137 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:22,580 Look at me. 138 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:23,300 All right. 139 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,060 We're not doing it. 140 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:28,340 That's right. 141 00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:30,500 And really, that's all I've got. 142 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:31,340 No, we can't do that. 143 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:39,140 I just, if that was the intention, and I don't necessarily disagree with that being out there 144 00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:39,760 as a requirement. 145 00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:46,190 Well, I've got, but I definitely would like to discuss some of the other comments. 146 00:21:48,490 --> 00:21:50,630 We're going to come back to David and just a minute. 147 00:21:51,050 --> 00:21:51,550 That's okay. 148 00:21:57,710 --> 00:22:04,230 I had like one comment that I got to kind of wrap my head around my own comment before 149 00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:04,670 I say it. 150 00:22:04,830 --> 00:22:08,850 So my biggest thing was about just about the hard cap on the 25 acres of disturbance. 151 00:22:08,850 --> 00:22:10,790 You know, it's got to be on a per project basis. 152 00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:15,150 There has to be some level of additional bonding or other requirements to be done to go 153 00:22:15,150 --> 00:22:19,330 up to that full 50 just to have a blanket statement of 25 acres in here. 154 00:22:19,330 --> 00:22:20,370 I don't think makes sense. 155 00:22:20,370 --> 00:22:27,670 We have, I mean, at some point when we, if we decide as a group that, yeah, we're going 156 00:22:27,670 --> 00:22:33,970 to make a motion, and these are the comments, we need to have that verbiage kind of settled. 157 00:22:34,330 --> 00:22:35,270 We can't be vague. 158 00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:36,350 I don't like this. 159 00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:37,010 We need a hard cap. 160 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:40,970 We probably need to say, we recommend it says this. 161 00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:42,010 Right? 162 00:22:42,010 --> 00:22:47,770 Okay, so you think about that while we circle back to David, just a minute. 163 00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:54,010 My comments were about, 164 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,620 on the view sheds, where it just said, 165 00:22:59,820 --> 00:23:07,700 link-mary view sheds for link-mary may be considered, provided mitigation plan is offset 166 00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:14,740 any tree rule. I don't know if we need to define that within this because it is awfully vague 167 00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:21,340 and subject to, if it's not defined somewhere, it's, hey, we want to make some view shots. 168 00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:25,640 Well, you got to do this. Well, how do I know what I'm supposed to do? Because it doesn't say. 169 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:39,740 I would like something in there to be more quantitative. I don't 170 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:44,800 think of some verbiage for that. 171 00:23:56,570 --> 00:24:17,050 It's just a point of start, you know, and then if it seems unreasonable, just, so I would say a Lake Murray View Shed corridor may be approved only by the county engineer does the upon writing written findings at the corridor is the minimum necessary and will not cause any changes. 172 00:24:17,050 --> 00:24:25,710 a net reduction and buffer function of U-shed cord or shall not exceed 30 feet in width or 20% of the parcel shoreline frontage 173 00:24:25,710 --> 00:24:28,470 Whichever is less clear cutting is prohibited 174 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:33,490 Selective pruning and removal of understory vegetation shall be minimized and 175 00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:38,550 Healthy native canopy trees shall be retained except where removal specifically approved 176 00:24:39,310 --> 00:24:41,810 Just a point of start when 177 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,220 is you I have a lot of words it is 178 00:24:47,060 --> 00:24:51,540 One issue I have with that is giving the sole discretion to just the county engineer. 179 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,180 I think it's kind of an arbitrary point to give all that decision to one sole person. 180 00:24:56,820 --> 00:24:59,960 So maybe there needs to come in front of this committee or additional- 181 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:10,220 Local staff, but to have additional people weigh in on that decision, I think, goes a long way. Give them a way or it goes court. 182 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:21,340 It seems reasonable. There's no way to say one-to-one mitigation or be specific upfront so you knew without even talking to the engineer and the engineer doesn't get. 183 00:25:21,340 --> 00:25:21,940 We're 184 00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:42,010 on the subject, Vance pretty much heads up the re-vegetation of buffers or telling us what it's exactly to do with the buffers and coordination with the LALDM. He can give an example or two. 185 00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:51,530 Vance Phomer, environmental coordinator, typically what has been done before is 186 00:25:52,530 --> 00:25:58,870 We use the landscape ordinance in their buffer section and we work closely with the landscape 187 00:25:58,870 --> 00:26:05,570 administrator based on the ordinance that's already written in the landscape and it gets 188 00:26:05,570 --> 00:26:13,630 re-vegetated based on what's already existing and using native plant material. 189 00:26:14,770 --> 00:26:20,030 In the land development manual, there is a section that calls out what has to be done for 190 00:26:20,030 --> 00:26:27,170 for re-vegetation. But to your point, what we could do is take the buffer language from 191 00:26:27,170 --> 00:26:32,130 the landscape ordinance and specifically drop that in to the land development manual, 192 00:26:32,590 --> 00:26:36,590 rather than two ordinances pointing at each other. We could actually have the specifics 193 00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:46,990 into the LDM, if that would be helpful. Typically, the way view sheet is handled is staff 194 00:26:46,990 --> 00:26:55,370 goes out and assesses what's currently on the ground with approval. And we have a list 195 00:26:55,370 --> 00:27:02,550 of requirements where it's done by hand clearing. There's no mechanical other than hand tools 196 00:27:02,550 --> 00:27:06,350 in the buffer. We don't allow stump grinding down in the buffer. 197 00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:10,590 Under two inches caliper 198 00:27:10,590 --> 00:27:18,630 vegetation can be removed with approval and then if there's diseased invasives 199 00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:20,970 those can be removed as well. 200 00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:28,270 And then we'll write and then based on the 201 00:27:28,270 --> 00:27:34,370 landscape standards there's an ANSI standard 300 that governs all landscape and 202 00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:38,910 tree pruning, and that's set by the International Society of Arboculture. 203 00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:47,850 Based on that, we allow limping up to approximately 10 to 12 feet depending on the species and 204 00:27:47,850 --> 00:27:52,710 the size of the tree, and then those buffers are monitored throughout the development. 205 00:27:54,510 --> 00:28:00,710 And then as far as re-vegetation, the land development manual calls out already that there's a two-year 206 00:28:02,750 --> 00:28:07,830 Revegitation requirement where those plant material has to be provided adequate water, mulching, 207 00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:12,790 and stabilization through that two-year inspection cycle. 208 00:28:13,630 --> 00:28:15,130 That's how it's currently being handled. 209 00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:21,740 That at least will give you what you can and can't do without. 210 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:24,200 And it puts it back in. 211 00:28:34,010 --> 00:28:36,030 We would still consult with the landscape administrator. 212 00:28:36,510 --> 00:28:42,130 That's their area of expertise, but we could drop some of those sections into the land of element manual 213 00:28:42,130 --> 00:28:43,310 if you wish. 214 00:28:48,570 --> 00:28:54,290 I don't like that idea y'all, or without. Makes it measurable. That's the point. 215 00:28:54,870 --> 00:29:03,090 Is there any conflict with Dominion and EG on this? Below 360 it would, which I have to follow 216 00:29:03,090 --> 00:29:03,630 their rules. 217 00:29:08,550 --> 00:29:13,750 Something that I've mentioned, protection of the femoral streams, those aren't protected 218 00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:14,570 streams. 219 00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:22,930 There's essentially erosion features when it storms that washes out 220 00:29:22,930 --> 00:29:24,350 that's the only time it carries any water. 221 00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:27,770 The protection of those, 222 00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:31,290 how are we 223 00:29:31,290 --> 00:29:35,810 going to protect those when they're not protected? Where is that? I apologize. 224 00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:39,510 Where is that? So I'm looking at the right spot. I'll see if they're 225 00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:49,610 Here we go. Sorry. Yeah. Right here. Because they're not a general protected linear feature 226 00:29:51,130 --> 00:29:54,510 Army Corps would not define them. 227 00:29:56,810 --> 00:29:57,750 Who's defining them? 228 00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:03,820 Senator Records. 229 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:11,000 And intermittent stream shane on N-W-I, and it was analyzing my biologists. 230 00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:12,700 It would be a 231 00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:21,660 point of it's just to define ditch. 232 00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:23,620 Contours. 233 00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:24,360 I 234 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:37,420 had protections for the 235 00:30:42,730 --> 00:30:44,090 logistics. 236 00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:48,410 We're looking at a site we're just re-grading the ditch out. 237 00:30:48,590 --> 00:30:49,890 It's not protecting 238 00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:57,950 somewhere where we got to get straight out. 239 00:30:58,690 --> 00:30:59,990 out by the code. 240 00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:10,900 In your, in your comment, are you saying that that entire sentence needs 241 00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:15,560 to get out of there? Or there, it either needs to come out, 242 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,060 setting what, 243 00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:25,120 defining what 244 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:25,540 the Admiral, 245 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,640 you're sending the streams to the Corps to approve. 246 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,360 They may not be looking 247 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,840 at what off of them, so it's not defined. 248 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,240 Yeah, it could be the whoever the wetlands consultant 249 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:55,040 is or the wetlands specific person that identifies features anyway could be based off their 250 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,300 decision like I said before if it was a dotted pink line on our GIS, oh there's a string that's 251 00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:07,840 intermittent and like no it's not that's immoral so in that case but if it's not shown anywhere 252 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,700 on the maps or in the wetlands inventory that 253 00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:19,800 one might be a way that captures everything. 254 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:26,400 So if it's dotted on the map, you need to justify that it's not a wetless, wetland specialist 255 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:26,800 scientist. 256 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:28,200 Okay. 257 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:34,380 I would say this will just define the guidance of who's deciding that it's right now from 258 00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:34,740 real stream. 259 00:32:35,180 --> 00:32:39,020 I don't think that would be if it if it is not even that from real stream, then it just 260 00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:40,660 has to protect it. 261 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,860 It's just an eroded side of a embankment. 262 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,780 It'd be better to fix it than it would be to protect it. 263 00:32:46,780 --> 00:32:49,480 But we're just looking to add in as 264 00:32:52,390 --> 00:32:56,190 you're to ensure okay, is it a neural or is it a femoral? 265 00:32:56,790 --> 00:33:03,850 I've called it a femoral for for all of our tomato tomato. All right, whatever to ensure those streams are protected 266 00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:08,030 Femoral streams in parentheses as defined by 267 00:33:08,030 --> 00:33:13,950 Wetlands consultant or something like that and then everything else stays right and you're happy 268 00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:18,750 Yeah, so would everyone else be happy with that? Yeah, I suggested an engineer record 269 00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:23,350 Engineers don't do that. I'm going to turn it over to look. 270 00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:26,950 Well, let's consult them. Yeah, yeah. 271 00:33:27,170 --> 00:33:29,490 Which, that's where you get this information anyway. 272 00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:30,530 So I'm fine with that. 273 00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:37,650 I just don't want to say if it's a dotted pink line on a map that get put together 50 years ago. 274 00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:39,730 That may not be enough. 275 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,820 I think the other thing was the definition of adjoining. 276 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,360 What is the definition and where do we go for that? 277 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,140 I think the word has a definition, means it's touching. 278 00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:14,040 What's touching? 279 00:34:16,290 --> 00:34:19,570 This sounds like touching. 280 00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:27,410 I could say my words and maybe you guys can critique it. 281 00:34:28,510 --> 00:34:31,600 So I would say for this requirement of development immediately, 282 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:38,380 Immediately, a joins Lake Murray when the development parcel shares a boundary with the Dominion project boundary line 283 00:34:38,380 --> 00:34:42,100 Or when land disturbance occurs within 200 feet of the 360 284 00:34:43,460 --> 00:34:48,440 And drains through a direct or constructed hydraulic connection to Lake Murray 285 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:12,780 That's what you want. I can put that in the recommendation. I was just seeing what your thoughts are. I mean, to me, a joint defines what it is, but we need a bunch of extra words. 286 00:35:15,660 --> 00:35:22,060 Ajoining, meaning the property literally touches, but literally, it joins it. I 287 00:35:25,550 --> 00:35:35,030 mean, your, your, your, in my opinion, your definition is the same, but I don't know that we need all those words to. 288 00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:42,710 I guess there's some differentiation. I'm just not for say it was in two hundred foot of Lake Murray is defining a joining 289 00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:48,910 No, I'm just a project that buts it right and has land disturbance within two hundred feet 290 00:35:48,910 --> 00:35:55,230 But that's the right turbidity curtains. She'll be required for any development, which immediately adjoins Lake Murray 291 00:35:55,230 --> 00:35:55,510 We 292 00:35:56,290 --> 00:36:02,190 Applying it there to so even though you don't own lake frontage. You've got to go in the lake and add turbidity curtains 293 00:36:02,190 --> 00:36:02,850 If 294 00:36:06,110 --> 00:36:07,850 you have a frontage, you don't have any place to do that. 295 00:36:12,510 --> 00:36:20,870 So with the intent of adjoining is that the property literally touches the lake, your 296 00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:22,150 owning lake front. 297 00:36:23,530 --> 00:36:27,210 Do we set like a minimum threshold of a distance of adjoinment? 298 00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:32,310 You know, if a parcel boundary is just a corner touching the, it's going to have a weird 299 00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:33,730 looking turbidity curtain in it. 300 00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:39,190 Yeah, so I mean, should we say a minimum of a 50 foot of a shared property line or a hundred foot 301 00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:40,730 some sort of 302 00:36:40,730 --> 00:36:44,490 And that would probably give you a better definition of a joining 303 00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:54,770 Yeah, just think about it. I mean, I mean, was there any thought on something like that? We're I mean, I don't know how many projects end up doing 304 00:36:57,290 --> 00:37:02,140 We're like Grayson said, you know, we're it in a joint 305 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,040 Three foot of frontage 306 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,190 How do we handle the British current kind of situation? 307 00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:20,570 He'd go out and come back and be like, it wouldn't, it pretty good and doesn't do 308 00:37:20,570 --> 00:37:21,030 us any good. 309 00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:22,710 Yeah, different. 310 00:37:23,010 --> 00:37:23,590 I can't, either. 311 00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:28,550 I don't think I can just will and will he go put it in the code and touch this guy's property 312 00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:29,370 and this guy's property. 313 00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:31,350 I property into it. 314 00:37:31,530 --> 00:37:39,630 So if you had a property that was 10 feet off the lake, didn't join for 315 00:37:39,630 --> 00:37:47,250 for what we're talking about, a joining being, but yet it has a hydraulic conduit to the 316 00:37:47,250 --> 00:37:47,470 lake. 317 00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:50,290 Don't need turbidity curtains there? 318 00:37:51,090 --> 00:37:55,210 You got no grounds or ability to put a turbidity curtain in. 319 00:37:55,310 --> 00:37:56,510 You can't box somebody else in. 320 00:37:58,050 --> 00:38:03,310 Putting up a wall, you're blocking someone else's access to the lake water that they have. 321 00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:06,740 I believe. 322 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,020 It wouldn't be able to use their dock, whatever they, they wouldn't be able to use their 323 00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,080 I'm thinking of properties that are just off the lake 324 00:38:22,420 --> 00:38:24,920 access to it, you don't own it. 325 00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:34,490 If I'm talking about within the property, turbidity curtains, you've got to say a drainage 326 00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:40,110 soil that's within the property, but yet you're not adjoining or you're not going to get it. 327 00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:44,390 There are BMPs to use, but the turbidity curtain would not be the right. 328 00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:51,780 You've got a swell that's heading off your property through an area that's not your 329 00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:52,720 property to the back. 330 00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:58,400 But a swell to me means that there's water moving through that. 331 00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:03,540 Ability curtain is more for standing water. 332 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,640 Like it's more, it's floating in the lake. 333 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,460 It has no current essentially flowing through it. 334 00:39:11,020 --> 00:39:18,200 so any of the turbidity would have to go down low enough and go under the curtain and then it's 335 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:24,820 so close to the bottom of the leg the idea is it just settles out there so if you're in a if you've 336 00:39:24,820 --> 00:39:33,920 got a swale or a creek or a channel that's flowing water and if it's not flowing your below the 360 would 337 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,040 apply then you'd have like for us I don't 338 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,600 know yeah I'll concede then I 339 00:39:51,570 --> 00:39:51,770 guess 340 00:39:51,770 --> 00:39:56,910 this is the LDM still standard to be the again this is the LDM still change 341 00:39:56,910 --> 00:39:59,950 to stand true we've got to be the curtains shall be deployed with them 342 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:06,080 In the joining and receiving bodies of water, we're feasible to further protect receiving areas of discoloration in terms of water. 343 00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:47,800 It would go as far as, you know, below the 360 is not usually properly owned. 344 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:56,320 A conveyance. Jumping into a streamer creek of somebody else's. 345 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:02,420 Then you get an L project boundary line after that line, it becomes dominions. 346 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:08,660 Let's do your... 347 00:41:09,940 --> 00:41:10,680 Tracking. 348 00:41:11,260 --> 00:41:13,780 I mean, you can't put your pretty curtains in. 349 00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:16,480 No, no, no, no. 350 00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:18,660 And you can't block some ice access to their dog. 351 00:41:18,980 --> 00:41:19,380 It 352 00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:35,820 would depend what kind of a creek it is. 353 00:41:35,980 --> 00:41:41,980 If it's a protected creek, you're going to go in and be set in a burnt, wetland ditch. 354 00:41:42,820 --> 00:41:45,720 have to do something along the upper, along 355 00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:51,040 the top of the bank, like that stream. 356 00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,000 So it wouldn't be a curtain, but- 357 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,420 Which is already in the LDM, you know? 358 00:41:55,420 --> 00:41:55,560 Right. 359 00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:56,200 That's what I'm saying. 360 00:41:56,340 --> 00:42:01,020 So additional BMPs, that's not forcing turbidity curtains, that just means you got to do 361 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:02,860 double row silthons. 362 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:14,180 That's whom function doesn't work on you, I mean, if it's okay, yeah, thank you. 363 00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:17,340 I have my contacts in, I promise. 364 00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:19,520 All right, 365 00:42:21,810 --> 00:42:25,490 to leave a joins as it is, okay, just leave it as it is. 366 00:42:26,810 --> 00:42:28,070 Yes, for now. 367 00:42:28,430 --> 00:42:28,650 Yes. 368 00:42:39,050 --> 00:42:46,650 For the justification and approval, do we have adequately 369 00:42:49,530 --> 00:42:52,570 determined as far as approval 370 00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:53,070 standards? 371 00:42:53,410 --> 00:43:01,170 So I propose that any approval waiver equivalency, determination, a v-set allowance, buffer mitigation 372 00:43:01,170 --> 00:43:18,070 plan or alternative BMP authorized by the sections shall be made in writing by the county engineer does in the and shall include findings addressing the applicable measure measurable criteria approval shall not be based solely on the professional judgment of the applicant's engineer record. 373 00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:20,830 We already have protections for that. 374 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,840 Which of your comments is this stemming from? 375 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:35,680 For approval, making sure that we've got number 10, require written justification for 376 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,120 approvals, waivers and exceptions. 377 00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:49,190 We still have a good process for these approvals. 378 00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:52,830 It becomes a question of journal set of plans. 379 00:43:54,410 --> 00:44:00,670 The proposal was usually shown, and if it's shown to be, or the request comes in, the 380 00:44:00,670 --> 00:44:08,440 ask of, you know, we needed a killer of you shed for a warehouse over what do you call 381 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:16,180 us? First house? Model home. Um, then usually they, the folks could come consult with us 382 00:44:16,180 --> 00:44:21,920 and we found a happy medium as Vance talked about to base off the land escape warnings. 383 00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:30,100 They saw the, uh, uh, if approval isn't, I guess, um, standardize such as that, but it's, 384 00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:35,100 It's um, we'll say negotiated what is, is, is talked about. 385 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,180 It's by case basis. 386 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,120 Outside of what the LDM says. 387 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:40,600 Yeah. 388 00:44:41,140 --> 00:44:42,100 Which is in the LDM. 389 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:46,460 The exceptions which forces it to get her back through us. 390 00:44:46,780 --> 00:44:46,820 Yeah. 391 00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:47,820 For that kind of variance. 392 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,420 Which is in the LDM currently. 393 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:51,000 Okay. 394 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:52,060 Yeah. 395 00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:55,420 As I said, starting off, some of these might already been there, 396 00:44:55,420 --> 00:44:57,880 but I don't, I didn't read everything. 397 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:58,140 Thanks. 398 00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,240 Okay. 399 00:45:01,010 --> 00:45:15,230 I'm making a quantifiable as Vant said. We'll use the landscape ordinance language on on when it went is in relation to a few sheds and buffers. Buffers, yes. 400 00:45:16,970 --> 00:45:26,990 Okay, and I don't think. I've got I've got that one right noted down. I don't have the exact language, but I have that one noted. What was the language here in the middle? 401 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,840 Yeah, I think most of my other comments have been addressed. 402 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:33,340 Okay. 403 00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:36,690 Are you good down there? 404 00:45:37,210 --> 00:45:37,370 Good. 405 00:45:41,350 --> 00:45:42,010 I'm really loud. 406 00:45:46,330 --> 00:45:53,210 I'm going to read out what the, the ones I have written down and then we can kind of 407 00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:56,070 muscle through them and add because I may have missed one. 408 00:45:57,330 --> 00:46:06,030 So here's the four topics of changes recommendations we're going to, we're thinking of sending. 409 00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:12,450 adding a 3.7.2 at the beginning of the watershed discussion. 410 00:46:14,810 --> 00:46:16,810 View sheds that they'd refer to 411 00:46:16,810 --> 00:46:24,510 the landscape ordinance. That's not the language we need. That's the topic. Disturbance acreage, 412 00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:30,150 the cap would, I don't know what the language needs to be there, but we're going to talk about that. 413 00:46:31,690 --> 00:46:39,070 And ephemeral stream, where it mentions the ephemeral stream, we're going to have some 414 00:46:39,070 --> 00:46:41,090 language that says as defined by wetland scientists. 415 00:46:41,570 --> 00:46:41,750 I 416 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:44,540 feel like I missed one. 417 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,400 I had another dot right there, and I did. 418 00:46:47,540 --> 00:46:49,780 Did the dictated what 4% buffer increase means? 419 00:46:54,200 --> 00:47:00,300 Yes, that we were going to ask that the buffer widths be specifically stated. 420 00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:01,160 that 421 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:16,320 is, where is that? Right. It's in 3.7.2-1, or our proposed 3.7.2-1, 422 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,280 buffer widths, clearly, aided. 423 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:26,640 What else you got in your notes there, Matt? 424 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:45,320 So I've at least got the topics right. We need to make an attempt at the language 425 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,100 for each of these, and then we can make a motion and edit. 426 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:58,840 that. First one's easy. That one's good. Yes. The first one will be we recommend that 427 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,700 we add 3.7.2 at the water such section. That's easy. 428 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,380 For the view sheds, 429 00:48:09,940 --> 00:48:10,260 apologize. 430 00:48:12,970 --> 00:48:15,290 That's provided mitigation plan approved. 431 00:48:19,020 --> 00:48:20,020 Did we hear 432 00:48:22,830 --> 00:48:27,310 a section of the landscape ordinance 433 00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:29,310 that we can just cite? 434 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:39,300 You mentioned maybe inserting it or would you pull it, just refer 435 00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:45,340 to the landscape board. We can do either. I feel like you all were saying that you 436 00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:50,580 wanted the language incorporated from the landscape and dropped in. I think I 437 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,140 guess my perspective was if it's something as simple as setting a buffer with 438 00:48:55,140 --> 00:49:01,440 yes have it here don't maybe go hunt that but if it's going that code is defined 439 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:08,980 over there a much larger than just saying it's 50 foot I think that lives and 440 00:49:08,980 --> 00:49:13,860 breads in the landscape code is because one's a number that's easily placed here. 441 00:49:13,860 --> 00:49:17,060 Right. The other is this much document that doesn't need to be replicated. 442 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:23,060 Correct. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Um, so we could refer to it. And instead of 443 00:49:23,060 --> 00:49:28,000 this, um, what I'm thinking is instead of the view sheds for Lake Murray may be considered 444 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,720 provided blah, blah, blah. We could have something view sheds for like Murray may be considered 445 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,800 an alignment with the landscape code. 446 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,580 The landscape code. 447 00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:43,920 Is that okay? 448 00:49:44,340 --> 00:49:44,920 Something like that? 449 00:49:45,100 --> 00:49:45,360 Does that make 450 00:49:47,730 --> 00:49:49,830 no where the number is? 451 00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:59,860 So one question about the view says, don't want to reinvent the wheel but the intent of that is to go be able to see the lake and access. 452 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,660 the lake, right? But a lot of the landscape ordinance is about re-vegetating the buffer with high 453 00:50:05,660 --> 00:50:09,420 density of plants. So at a certain point, they're going to counteract each other. You're 454 00:50:09,420 --> 00:50:16,280 going to cut a view shed. But then if I have to replant it, the buffer ordinance is very 455 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:21,740 restrictive on the type of plants and the density of plants. So essentially you're cutting down 456 00:50:21,740 --> 00:50:28,220 a view shed just to replant a blockage. I do fear that just referencing the landscaping 457 00:50:28,220 --> 00:50:33,280 code. I'm going to be doing going in circles. Well that's why we're talking about it, but 458 00:50:35,220 --> 00:50:35,660 let 459 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:47,360 them everything up so I can see through it and cut down dead vegetation or whatever or 460 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,620 possibly remove a couple of trees to have to put more trees back that are going to grow up and 461 00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:55,220 block that view. That doesn't make sense. 462 00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,380 It complicates it a little bit though. 463 00:51:01,820 --> 00:51:03,100 Something in the landscape code. 464 00:51:05,110 --> 00:51:08,490 I know it does for being under power lines. You've got to have 465 00:51:08,490 --> 00:51:13,700 of minor trees, lower canopy trees under power lines, 466 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,420 is there something in there for a view sheet, 467 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,360 I've application where it shrubs and under, 468 00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:24,500 it doesn't reestablish a new higher view obstruction. 469 00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:29,220 I think what would happen is if there was an encroachment 470 00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:29,940 into the buffer, 471 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,920 have a higher density planting. 472 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,520 If the developer came to the county and said, 473 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,420 I would like to create a view shit. 474 00:51:43,690 --> 00:51:46,510 That's where you would have more of your canopy and your understory trees 475 00:51:46,510 --> 00:51:52,730 With the less of the the shrubs, you know, typically the canopies can be higher. You can see down through that 476 00:51:53,610 --> 00:51:57,090 Now if someone were to encroach into a water quality buffer go 477 00:51:59,230 --> 00:52:00,410 outside the limits of disturbance 478 00:52:01,670 --> 00:52:02,670 your denser 479 00:52:03,730 --> 00:52:05,930 vegetation, but we wouldn't use 480 00:52:07,350 --> 00:52:11,270 The understory for the view blockage we would do canopy 481 00:52:13,070 --> 00:52:15,750 Even the canopy trees will take 10 years to reach up. 482 00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:16,710 A height, that. 483 00:52:17,350 --> 00:52:18,950 There actually doesn't block your view. 484 00:52:19,050 --> 00:52:20,110 You were trying to get in first place. 485 00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:24,430 Is there any sort of like language we could come up with, 486 00:52:24,510 --> 00:52:25,550 maybe like a buffer averaging? 487 00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:29,670 So you know, let's say it's a 100 foot long buffer 488 00:52:29,670 --> 00:52:30,750 just to make the numbers easy. 489 00:52:31,210 --> 00:52:32,670 I'm going to do a 30 foot view shed. 490 00:52:33,570 --> 00:52:35,930 But in these other areas, that buffer maybe goes up 491 00:52:35,930 --> 00:52:38,590 to 125 feet in width. 492 00:52:41,260 --> 00:52:43,460 I'll give you access to the lake, give you clarity, 493 00:52:43,460 --> 00:52:47,480 to give you view of the lake, but still adhering to an additional buffer requirement. 494 00:52:58,610 --> 00:53:02,590 Design and neighborhoods, and you have a buffer for wetlands, you can average that buffer 495 00:53:02,590 --> 00:53:05,210 down in certain areas and increase it in other areas. 496 00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:10,890 So kind of following that similar process of trimming down the buffer in the area that you 497 00:53:10,890 --> 00:53:14,970 want to have the view shed in the access and increasing it in other areas along the lake. 498 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,620 I would suspect that you'd want a 499 00:53:26,290 --> 00:53:29,310 subdivision or any development with lake frontage. 500 00:53:30,370 --> 00:53:33,270 I don't want to increase buffer anywhere along the lake. 501 00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:34,750 I want to be able to see the lake. 502 00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:37,530 The whole reason we're there is to see the lake. 503 00:53:38,530 --> 00:53:42,490 So to be able to clean up what's there so you can see, 504 00:53:43,130 --> 00:53:47,270 mostly through it, is the objective without, to your point, 505 00:53:47,490 --> 00:53:50,510 without replanting things that just block what we just cleared up. 506 00:53:51,110 --> 00:53:57,680 I was thinking that we had that ability within not replanting. 507 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,600 A bunch of view blockage. 508 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:09,760 But where do you find that balance between, I'm just going to clear out all the trees, which, I mean, 509 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:19,720 the minion already has some control over that because they're going to like, what was the thing that you can't, you can't, the button bushes or whatever, you can't take them out anyway. 510 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:21,300 But 511 00:54:24,210 --> 00:54:27,970 I don't know what that language or what could be a fair compromise here. 512 00:54:29,210 --> 00:54:41,450 I would say, is the goal, okay, let's say we have a property that you've got housing 513 00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:45,790 in certain section and you've got other areas that wouldn't be appropriate for the housing. 514 00:54:47,070 --> 00:54:54,530 Those areas, you would end up leaving a lot of the buffer, but then you might have clear 515 00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:59,950 where there's all the houses, is there a way that it could be stated so that... 516 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:29,460 We're still, we still have sections of view for the property, so that it's not just, well, we're just going to use this as a buffer. It's land that we couldn't have used anyway for housing, but it might take away from the overall water quality of like Murray. It'd be better to have integral vegetation rather than clear. And then just separate areas that. 517 00:55:29,460 --> 00:55:34,640 the current is usable, qualifying for the buffer area. 518 00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:35,780 Does that make sense? 519 00:55:38,250 --> 00:55:39,790 Don't know how to, right though? 520 00:55:39,870 --> 00:55:41,730 Yeah, I guess my biggest hang up on it right now 521 00:55:41,730 --> 00:55:44,430 is we're gonna reference the landscape ordinance. 522 00:55:44,990 --> 00:55:46,730 Again, you're gonna, whatever you take down, 523 00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:49,270 whether it's usable or unusable, you gotta replant. 524 00:55:53,590 --> 00:55:54,830 There's not really a viewshed, it's just, 525 00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:56,990 you're like, it'd be like a standard buffer. 526 00:55:57,650 --> 00:56:00,110 Contractors got the view while they were constructing it. 527 00:56:00,110 --> 00:56:00,210 Right. 528 00:56:01,690 --> 00:56:02,490 Homeowner detonated. 529 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:12,620 It's a water quality buffer. It protects water quality and you do that by stopping erosion 530 00:56:12,620 --> 00:56:19,440 with root systems and having no chemicals or equipment down in the buffer. That's what 531 00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:21,180 that's how you protect water quality. 532 00:56:22,260 --> 00:56:23,100 Happened with, 533 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:31,520 and again, every property is different. If you've got a slip going up 534 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:38,180 away from the shoreline, a dead that is 10 foot and under may not be applicable to your 535 00:56:38,180 --> 00:56:42,460 house because you're sitting up on a hill. So, not every property is going to benefit 536 00:56:42,460 --> 00:56:49,200 by cutting out the understory. It's the next mid zone that they would be interested in. 537 00:56:49,900 --> 00:56:54,720 They don't get the benefit of that here, but is there something that we can replant or 538 00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:08,190 It passes the low shrubs, the forefoot and under that you use that could be done of 539 00:57:09,610 --> 00:57:11,250 understory trees. 540 00:57:13,900 --> 00:57:21,280 I think by allowing the landscape administrator to have that flexibility, I would say that 541 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:32,540 that would be beneficial, start to define every square foot and what is going to happen 542 00:57:32,540 --> 00:57:38,360 in that buffer. Now you have to take into consideration into your table. Now you have 543 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:44,560 to define topography and slope. And by giving the landscape administrator the flexibility, 544 00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:47,500 we've seen it work. Well, 545 00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:53,750 the standard re-vegetation is more of when you have, 546 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,060 I mean, let's just call it what it is, a penalty. 547 00:58:00,020 --> 00:58:05,280 Rector goes into the outside lens limits of disturbance, whether they read the plans or not, 548 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,180 that standard re-vegetation. 549 00:58:10,060 --> 00:58:17,620 But the landscape that you administer or even that scenario still has the flexibility to use the plant material that's appropriate for the site conditions. 550 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:24,460 to your point where you're talking about getting a view from a second story 551 00:58:24,460 --> 00:58:30,780 floor master. In that case you would want the Native grasses and the 552 00:58:30,780 --> 00:58:37,360 understory that would top out at 12 feet to be your re-vegetation, and by 553 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:42,340 giving the landscape administrator that flexibility, I think that's what you want. 554 00:58:42,340 --> 00:58:42,420 Well, 555 00:58:44,670 --> 00:58:52,460 it's written now gives Landscaper that flexibility without any other than the width 556 00:58:52,460 --> 00:58:56,940 asking for the width to be specific, or as the refer to Landscaped ordinance, we don't 557 00:58:56,940 --> 00:59:03,640 need, we wouldn't necessarily, if we're going along with a grain of thought. 558 00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:04,200 What 559 00:59:06,860 --> 00:59:12,480 do you think makes sense, whereas is this shall include, but not limited, can it include? 560 00:59:18,620 --> 00:59:20,280 We can ask for anything, doesn't it? 561 00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:29,180 I'm trying to, the first sentence, two sentences there, talk about one thing, and then 562 00:59:29,180 --> 00:59:37,080 view sheds are in that paragraph, it's all kind of look together, are we saying view 563 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,680 sheds are part of water quality or should there be a two there? 564 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,920 That's part of water quality. 565 00:59:45,370 --> 00:59:45,830 Retaining. 566 00:59:46,170 --> 00:59:46,570 Retaining. 567 00:59:46,850 --> 00:59:48,150 Should view sheds be its own number? 568 00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:54,290 Should it be two or move below two and be three or is it or should it be lumped into the water 569 00:59:54,290 --> 00:59:54,550 coil? 570 00:59:55,250 --> 00:59:59,730 The thing when there are view sheds being used, you must follow these water quality. 571 01:00:03,140 --> 01:00:31,010 I'm sorry. Now I'm rereading this after discussion. I'm continuing just confusing me. Stop it. Well, we did, we did state before that when I talked about how they were approved, how the view sheds were approved. I had suggested county engineer and everyone else kind of wanted to have additional decision makers. So what are we saying here? Are we? 572 01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:37,010 Is the view said just one person's decision or not? 573 01:00:39,070 --> 01:00:43,050 Probably needs specifically say landscape administrator in here but it would go to the 574 01:00:43,050 --> 01:00:45,770 landscape administrator if I'm hearing the advance correct. 575 01:00:46,110 --> 01:00:46,310 Or 576 01:00:49,060 --> 01:00:55,900 is it design so the LDM is written in a way that can be approved by the county engineer 577 01:00:55,900 --> 01:01:03,020 public works or their designees. So in that way you encompass all the LDM and 578 01:01:03,020 --> 01:01:08,480 all the public works and the community development staff when you're that 579 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:18,940 protects the somebody's out. I review something Robbie stamps it reference one 580 01:01:18,940 --> 01:01:22,240 person I think that takes away the flexibility for staff but 581 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:25,520 you can still 582 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:32,020 reference an ordinance for guidance. It would be standard their decision or their 583 01:01:32,020 --> 01:01:33,340 or appointee or designated? 584 01:01:40,580 --> 01:01:46,780 Then, is there a recommendation to change any of the language 585 01:01:46,780 --> 01:01:50,140 in this little bit of the view sheds or is there not? 586 01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,620 After circling back through it a few times. 587 01:01:56,980 --> 01:01:59,880 At one point we wanted it to reference the landscape ordinance, 588 01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:01,740 but now it kind of, it already has 589 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:10,450 talking about Grayson's point on a site by site. 590 01:02:12,270 --> 01:02:13,070 I have 591 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,900 discussions on what kind of plantings actually need to go back in there. 592 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:24,400 That's sort of all. 593 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,140 I think you need to have detailed in a view shed area, here's the types of plantings 594 01:02:29,140 --> 01:02:31,420 and the density requirements for that area. 595 01:02:33,140 --> 01:02:37,820 So you would want that spelled out in here and not discretion at. 596 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,800 Because it's a different as you submit, because even if I ask you, you would have to submit 597 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:47,540 with justification on why you want these sort of plants here. 598 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:48,260 Right. 599 01:02:48,380 --> 01:02:51,940 Like, let's say I'm doing a master plan and this is where my amenity center is going. 600 01:02:52,340 --> 01:02:56,980 Here's where I want to have the nice green space and to have people view corridor. 601 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:58,300 Have access and to have you. 602 01:02:58,780 --> 01:03:00,460 Here's my mitigation plan. 603 01:03:00,460 --> 01:03:05,780 Yeah, it should be, I'm clearing 50 foot wide view shed and here's the mitigation that 604 01:03:05,780 --> 01:03:06,280 I'm required. 605 01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,320 Here's the trees I'm removing and here's my replanting schedule. 606 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:14,880 but not forced them to actually go replant that 50-foot view corridor with 607 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:19,100 understory or canopy trees whether it's native grasses I think that would 608 01:03:19,100 --> 01:03:23,380 satisfy it that would prevent erosion that would prevent it wouldn't be 609 01:03:23,380 --> 01:03:30,760 raw dirt you know just come up with a plan on a per per project basis I would 610 01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:35,900 language so does languages here cover that or you want additional language you 611 01:03:35,900 --> 01:03:39,080 want to recommend additional language not not that planning commission is 612 01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:44,780 going to listen, you know, necessarily follow what we say, but if there's additional language 613 01:03:45,460 --> 01:03:49,800 like to hear it, so that way I can just write it down right here and then we can... 614 01:03:56,490 --> 01:04:01,970 I mean, I guess it does say you said it may be considered provided a mitigation plan 615 01:04:01,970 --> 01:04:02,810 is submitted and approved, 616 01:04:07,340 --> 01:04:12,420 still leaves a lot up to, like, as the one that wants to do it, 617 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,180 I really don't know what I have to do about what this... 618 01:04:15,180 --> 01:04:19,040 This doesn't tell me what I have to do to get approval, so it's not very measurable. 619 01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:19,560 Correct. 620 01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,520 And that's the part of the ball is, Matt, just don't have to make it measurable in this 621 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:28,960 document because everything's so different every time, right, or it can be so different 622 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:29,400 every time. 623 01:04:30,380 --> 01:04:35,660 For the amenity center, ones for lots five through six, or five through ten, yeah, those are 624 01:04:35,660 --> 01:04:39,380 completely different situations, and depending on typo, it's completely different, see? 625 01:04:40,580 --> 01:04:41,240 I don't know. 626 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,960 Yeah, you can spell it out, so it... 627 01:04:46,140 --> 01:04:50,540 So again should you should be on their own point and then we say a view shed around Lake Murray should be 628 01:04:51,180 --> 01:04:53,140 50 foot and width and then you can go 629 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,360 That's kind of going back to where I was talking about doing a buffer averaging 630 01:04:56,780 --> 01:04:59,980 You're able to go down to a reduced width if you have a 631 01:05:00,910 --> 01:05:07,230 Replanting schedule of XYZ, you know, and come up with some sort of measurable, quantitative value for that. 632 01:05:12,380 --> 01:05:19,440 I don't think we're going to get it in this meeting, unfortunately. Well, maybe our recommendation could be looser than that, 633 01:05:21,710 --> 01:05:25,690 as far as not being specific on the language. Just recommend a planning commission on this. 634 01:05:31,970 --> 01:05:39,770 I'm not going to say we're not smart enough, but it's more complicated than just a couple of sentences from us to digest. 635 01:05:39,770 --> 01:05:49,290 And yeah, after circling through this a couple of times, I think it can be its own. 636 01:05:50,490 --> 01:05:50,970 The 637 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,000 recommendation to make it its own section with measurable. 638 01:06:07,540 --> 01:06:14,160 It's going to onboard the without measurable measurable what I'm sorry, he said it right. 639 01:06:16,580 --> 01:06:21,120 Because if it's measurable then it doesn't put as much on us on the approver. 640 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:26,180 If it's less measurable, we might want to have it looked at by more than one person, so one person's not 641 01:06:26,940 --> 01:06:33,680 It slows things out and as a developer. I don't know what I'm without going through that approval process and spending the money to have everyone 642 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:36,140 I don't know what I'm gonna have to do. I don't have any clue. 643 01:06:38,380 --> 01:06:38,780 Okay 644 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:41,920 Language on the disturbance a great acreage 645 01:06:43,420 --> 01:06:50,120 My opinion on it's just I don't know why we were doing anything different than what our previous provision was on the acreage stuff 646 01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,980 While honestly just taking those first two sentences out 647 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:56,740 You got your 25 acres 648 01:06:57,580 --> 01:07:03,480 25 to 50 we've already done the brain surgery on what it takes to get what you have to do to get above the acreage 649 01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:09,420 Was it even brought back up cuz I'm taking those two out in my opinion and it's already referenced in the L.D.M 650 01:07:09,420 --> 01:07:16,760 On the life of Asian said I mean you got your zero to 25 25 to 15 anything above that goes to hear what council whatever it is 651 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:17,960 But yeah, is 652 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,140 there an issue with the second 653 01:07:22,140 --> 01:07:27,960 sentence though with the phasing what's what is the particular issue with the phasing plan we're 654 01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:34,460 talking about water quality that's that's also covered in the okay in the LDM on okay when you 655 01:07:34,460 --> 01:07:41,440 want to go however you want to disturb your site that's already covered so I don't disagree that 656 01:07:42,140 --> 01:07:50,920 this is I mean I think they were trying to be more restrictive but I don't there's 657 01:07:52,140 --> 01:07:53,380 I don't agree with that should be there. 658 01:07:54,380 --> 01:07:59,200 Have additional BMPs you have to do to justify anything above that anyway. 659 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,080 I mean, agreed because 660 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:09,920 Batesburg leads well over here does another industrial part because that watershed goes that far. 661 01:08:10,420 --> 01:08:12,360 You're saying you can't do over 20. 662 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,160 That far from the late looking for one. 663 01:08:15,940 --> 01:08:16,860 That doesn't, that doesn't. 664 01:08:17,380 --> 01:08:18,240 I don't agree, right. 665 01:08:18,860 --> 01:08:20,940 I'm agreeing with you saying that I don't agree with that. 666 01:08:22,700 --> 01:08:26,480 So first two sentences under water quality, we'd recommend they were just removed. 667 01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:28,760 But 668 01:08:32,570 --> 01:08:35,610 this is something about analysis points or just drainage points. 669 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,060 Yep, they thought that or just get rid of it. 670 01:08:41,060 --> 01:08:45,600 If we're taking that out and we go back to the language that we've already done with previous 671 01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,140 changes, I think it takes care of that. 672 01:08:48,140 --> 01:08:56,500 But to say it's 25 acres of disturbance, well, I'm discharging this way, and then I've 673 01:08:56,500 --> 01:09:00,160 got a large enough site where I'm around the end of the cove, and I've got a discharge 674 01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,960 completely over there that has nothing to do with that discharge, different 675 01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,040 water sheds 676 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,040 that flood separately. 677 01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:16,700 So either say 25 acres disturbance to a discharge point. 678 01:09:16,700 --> 01:09:20,620 Now, if you've got a wide open frontage, your whole frontage may be one discharge. 679 01:09:21,060 --> 01:09:26,100 But again, if you've got multiple creeks that are leaving a several hundred acre site, 680 01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:33,300 it would apply, protect that discharge point, protect that discharge point, 681 01:09:35,620 --> 01:09:36,180 but I still 682 01:09:36,180 --> 01:09:40,640 think if we strike those two sentences, I think there's enough leeway in what we've got 683 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:46,460 already in the revisions, the developer can go through that process to make that work. 684 01:09:46,460 --> 01:09:47,820 And that I 685 01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,840 don't see recreating so our recommendation 686 01:09:54,480 --> 01:09:57,520 I'm getting this our recommendation on that would be that 687 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:20,880 After water quality, the first two sentences are removed because, and we can say because, not saying it right, because land disturbance limits have already been discussed and reviewed at nauseam. We won't say not. In other sections of the L.D.M. Our 688 01:10:25,170 --> 01:10:26,890 recommendation could say something like that, correct? 689 01:10:30,510 --> 01:10:36,610 General streams, as defined by wetland scientists. Oh, we're going to change on that part. Down there, you got to go. 690 01:10:38,810 --> 01:10:41,010 We'll have, we're 691 01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:47,290 almost there, we're almost there, and that the buffer widths were clearly 692 01:10:47,290 --> 01:10:47,630 stated. 693 01:10:47,890 --> 01:10:49,030 That's easy enough. 694 01:10:51,380 --> 01:10:55,800 Okay, so now, now I've got to figure out how to get that into a motion, right? 695 01:11:06,020 --> 01:11:08,340 That's the scary part, because everyone's going to look at me when they need it. 696 01:11:13,070 --> 01:11:20,170 You want me to say, I'll go through what I think we've got, and then someone can say the 697 01:11:20,170 --> 01:11:22,290 moved or something to that effect. 698 01:11:23,770 --> 01:11:30,430 Okay, so what our recommendation to the planning commission on these changes would be 699 01:11:30,430 --> 01:11:31,430 I have five points. 700 01:11:31,890 --> 01:11:39,250 Number one, that we would like to add 3.7.2 at the beginning of the water set section, 701 01:11:42,010 --> 01:11:48,490 under the water quality section of that same section, sorry. 702 01:11:48,490 --> 01:11:59,070 We would like the View Sheds portion to be made its own section and to work through some 703 01:11:59,070 --> 01:12:00,950 measurable requirements for 704 01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,200 getting the View Sheds permission allowance. 705 01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:14,800 On the disturbed acreage, we would write after water quality in the same section we were just 706 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:21,900 talking about. We would recommend removing the first two sentences because the land development 707 01:12:21,900 --> 01:12:29,420 manual already has the maximum disturbance limits and the exceptions to it. 708 01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:32,870 Further down 709 01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:40,070 the page we have where it mentions ephemeral streams. We'd like to in parentheses behind 710 01:12:40,070 --> 01:12:48,770 that put as defined by wetland scientist and the last recommendation is that our buffer 711 01:12:48,770 --> 01:12:54,030 widths are clearly the actual widths are clearly stated in this document. 712 01:13:00,060 --> 01:13:00,900 Can I get a motion 713 01:13:00,900 --> 01:13:02,200 on those recommendations? 714 01:13:03,460 --> 01:13:04,980 Question that we approve those. 715 01:13:05,260 --> 01:13:05,720 All 716 01:13:11,930 --> 01:13:13,590 right. Any further discussion on this? 717 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:19,740 So we'll have a vote. Everyone that says yes, 718 01:13:19,740 --> 01:13:19,840 Yes. 719 01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:21,240 Do we raise, right? 720 01:13:21,340 --> 01:13:21,880 Do we say aye? 721 01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:23,000 I forgot what we do on this one. 722 01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:26,800 We'll just say aye. 723 01:13:27,060 --> 01:13:27,800 If you agree. 724 01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:29,320 Aye. 725 01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:29,840 Aye. 726 01:13:30,140 --> 01:13:30,280 Aye. 727 01:13:31,660 --> 01:13:34,380 That was everyone, so we don't have any mays. 728 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:36,880 Animusly approved. 729 01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:43,440 So the whole purpose of this was to make sure we have special protections on the late marine 730 01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:45,440 watersheds to fill out we have accomplished that. 731 01:13:49,090 --> 01:13:49,210 Yeah. 732 01:13:49,910 --> 01:13:51,190 So then, would 733 01:13:53,460 --> 01:13:55,400 there any other comments from staff that 734 01:14:02,250 --> 01:14:04,070 next meeting day we meet as needed? 735 01:14:04,490 --> 01:14:08,170 So Matt will let us know and I'll try to give us some heads up. 736 01:14:08,590 --> 01:14:10,270 Like we did last time I think that worked out well. 737 01:14:10,450 --> 01:14:11,730 We got a good showing. 738 01:14:12,130 --> 01:14:13,110 Appreciate everyone being here. 739 01:14:14,230 --> 01:14:17,230 If I can get a move, move a motion to adjourn. 740 01:14:17,310 --> 01:14:17,690 Second. 741 01:14:20,010 --> 01:14:22,090 Ah, we're adjourned. Thank you.