1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,600
Okay, we have a quorum. If we were in what would stand, we're going to do our indication and our pledges.

2
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,020
Do we have any public comments?

3
00:01:24,980 --> 00:01:26,060
Okay, but no one is here.

4
00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:45,040
Public comments. I have three minutes and council cannot reply back by law, so we're here here in your concerns and we can get back to the right you. First person will be John Smith.

5
00:01:49,570 --> 00:01:52,130
If you let mine stay in your name and then you're address the phrase.

6
00:01:52,130 --> 00:01:52,890
It

7
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,980
briefly, I've been in astronomy for longer than I ever want to,

8
00:02:48,030 --> 00:02:49,070
you see a bigger sky

9
00:02:49,070 --> 00:02:53,810
below from Phoenix, which is 90 miles away than you do from Tucson.

10
00:02:55,010 --> 00:03:00,290
So preserving the night sky is, I think, very worthwhile.

11
00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:08,590
Because of the nature of Tucson, I ran a deep sky observatory on my home, in my home property,

12
00:03:09,990 --> 00:03:23,390
successfully for many years, and our HOA, the rule was, you should see the effect of the light, not the light itself, and that's a close-notes version of shielded lighting.

13
00:03:24,310 --> 00:03:35,730
So, I would encourage Liberty Hill to keep the dark sky ordinance going.

14
00:03:36,350 --> 00:03:38,110
I think it's good for the wildlife.

15
00:03:38,630 --> 00:03:41,230
It's good for safety, frankly,

16
00:03:41,570 --> 00:03:44,390
because an unshealed and bold just blinds the person,

17
00:03:44,890 --> 00:03:48,590
whereas a shield and bold lights the area that you want to see in.

18
00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:50,190
This is also a better for wildlife.

19
00:03:50,730 --> 00:03:55,090
And the only way kids have ever learned constellations is to be able to see them.

20
00:03:55,530 --> 00:04:00,890
So I just encourage you to be positive in that direction and keep a good control of the whites.

21
00:04:01,390 --> 00:04:01,850
Thank you.

22
00:04:01,890 --> 00:04:02,750
Thank you.

23
00:04:07,850 --> 00:04:09,650
Okay, next we have Nick Page.

24
00:04:20,550 --> 00:04:23,730
Well, Nick Page is a little bit too frozen.

25
00:04:24,130 --> 00:04:25,310
Well, that's being billabored.

26
00:04:25,490 --> 00:04:27,210
And that's in the Sundance Ranch.

27
00:04:28,130 --> 00:04:29,390
So I'm outside the city.

28
00:04:30,030 --> 00:04:31,250
And I can't vote.

29
00:04:32,510 --> 00:04:35,430
and maybe be annexed. I'm here for that.

30
00:04:35,610 --> 00:04:38,730
But I'm here to speak on behalf of the dark sky ordinance.

31
00:04:39,950 --> 00:04:42,870
To keep it in place and to please,

32
00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:51,030
let's put this to bed, we're having to do this every single city council meeting where it always comes up for a challenge.

33
00:04:51,950 --> 00:04:55,170
And everybody knows the story, so I don't need to go rehash that.

34
00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:59,870
But I live out five miles from here and I can save the city glow.

35
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:17,580
Let's just get in brighter and brighter. And the few businesses that are pushing back on this, those are relatively small signs if you compare them to the huge jumbo-tron billboards that will surely be next.

36
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,400
I'm great with all the building that's coming in, that's fine, we'll be on prospering.

37
00:05:23,540 --> 00:05:28,400
I've never been about anti-growth, I'm a nation, I've been a birthday on my wife and I've been

38
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:28,720
grown.

39
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:35,560
I grew enough to where I could come out here in the out of the city and enjoy life for a while.

40
00:05:36,340 --> 00:05:44,100
And now it's being thrown back in a face like we are, somehow anti-growth and anti-American

41
00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:49,840
and if we'll want them to like to be turned down, that's the silly thing in the world.

42
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:57,680
I'm just asking the city council again to leave this ordinance in place and stop with

43
00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:02,420
this back and forth share game every time they were called down here.

44
00:06:02,420 --> 00:06:07,800
I don't even need to leave here, since I'm going to live outside the city, but I come down here

45
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,360
to leave with you people for this dark sky ordinance to stay in place.

46
00:06:15,420 --> 00:06:20,280
I'm here in this third hand, but if there was a comment made, my somebody on this

47
00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:27,020
dies, that people that aren't here physically to support our skies, there must not

48
00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:29,920
be that much support for it.

49
00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:35,700
Well, there's 700 people that I know of that have signed on with a petition to keep this

50
00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:35,920
thing.

51
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,680
Now, can we get 700 people in this room?

52
00:06:39,180 --> 00:06:40,340
We can try.

53
00:06:40,340 --> 00:06:45,900
I mean, we can put out a little fire and we can get this place packed and I've been down

54
00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:51,700
here before or where there's a community-wide issue and you can't get enough people in the

55
00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:52,080
building.

56
00:06:52,780 --> 00:06:57,220
And when we're talking about ordinances and ordinances, you're bad or at least one.

57
00:06:57,580 --> 00:07:03,500
Every business in this town has a little sign somewhere in the entry that has an ordinances

58
00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:14,120
is maximum occupancy. You can't get more than maximum people in this building legally. Why don't

59
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:20,380
they push back on that? They're not, they're getting more business that they've gotten more

60
00:07:20,380 --> 00:07:27,840
bodies in the room, it looks like to me, so I don't say why that ordinance is okay, but I've said

61
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:35,760
There's a lot of technical information that other people can give, but this is getting real long.

62
00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:37,260
Thank you.

63
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:39,680
Thank you, sir.

64
00:07:42,270 --> 00:07:42,430
Okay.

65
00:07:42,590 --> 00:07:43,550
Next we have Wolf Franklin.

66
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,160
I know this is not as tall as it used to be.

67
00:07:57,540 --> 00:07:59,280
Somebody missed an expecting me.

68
00:07:59,780 --> 00:08:00,240
Anyway.

69
00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:01,540
Can you hear me?

70
00:08:01,860 --> 00:08:02,620
Yes, ma'am.

71
00:08:02,780 --> 00:08:04,160
Good evening, friends and neighbors.

72
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:05,720
I counsel people.

73
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,120
When you miss a little bit of me, I was already at four or five.

74
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:16,260
most vaguely below your text list, there was this patch of coffee put it within the series,

75
00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:26,040
and I'm hearing like a passage grandma, because to where the straight girls of this world have

76
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:34,500
stood for those that are helpful, helpful, and good. The last job is to learn to, and this is my job

77
00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:35,980
So I'm here.

78
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:44,760
There's two of us, which are closely pointing out that some people have had a difficult

79
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,860
over their love-scat movements because they felt they had a lot of good work.

80
00:08:50,180 --> 00:08:51,920
And I'm sure they've heard such things.

81
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,900
Well, I have a card that is straightened out.

82
00:08:57,700 --> 00:09:02,220
But I want to remind people that love-scat is a little dark girl.

83
00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:59,970
And each one of those, there is stake, the world.

84
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:13,820
The billboards feel that they're going to lose some freedom, aye, y'all are going to lose a bill, get rid of them from them, that they're going to lose a rule of the freedom to do anything in the working time of the right, and let it go to the court.

85
00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:20,920
And the reason for the chaos, for the weather ahead of the stake, they're still the worst things to do.

86
00:10:21,060 --> 00:10:25,000
That's just an irreplaceable right for them to rise in.

87
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:33,040
It is watching, so it is still gazing with the brush you get, and all the stars are starting to come back to the sea.

88
00:10:33,940 --> 00:10:37,400
If we go back to bright lights now, there is a tone.

89
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,880
It's right on the ground that we've made.

90
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:42,020
I'll give you a little bit of an argument.

91
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,100
I'll give you a little bit of an argument.

92
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:32,760
May I count some members? My name is Kristen Phillips. I live at 320 capstone. Thank you for

93
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,560
the opportunity to speak tonight. I would like to ask two issues that are ultimately connected

94
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:43,960
by common theme, public trust. First, I want to speak about transparency and public engagement.

95
00:11:45,020 --> 00:11:49,920
The city's code of ethics states that citizens are entitled to a fair, ethical and accountable

96
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:56,280
local government that earns the public trust and full confidence. It further states that city

97
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:02,000
officials should be independent, impartial, and fair and legitimate in actions and have

98
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,380
a purpose of the code of ethics is to assure public confidence in the integrity of

99
00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:10,300
local government and its effective inferior operations.

100
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:16,340
With those principles in mind, I'm concerned about the strategic plan survey, currently being

101
00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:17,800
promoted to the community.

102
00:12:18,660 --> 00:12:23,520
The survey is not an honest and for many members of our community, that matters.

103
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:32,240
Teachers, sitting in place, business owners, volunteers, and others may hesitate to provide

104
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,620
clear with feedback if they believe their responses can be tracked back to them.

105
00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:43,520
A strategic learning process should encourage honest participation not create barriers to it.

106
00:12:44,140 --> 00:12:47,020
I must admit this survey is not available in Spanish.

107
00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:50,780
We will have a variety of organizations to identify as Hispanic.

108
00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:56,680
If you genuinely want community input, we should ensure that all residents have a

109
00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:02,340
little opportunity to participate. Public engagement is most effective when it is

110
00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:07,880
accessible, representative and inclusive. Second, I would like to revisit the

111
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,360
conversation that I brought up two weeks ago surrounding the Pride Proclamation

112
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,320
in our community. Across Central Texas, it is like Mount Rock, Georgetown,

113
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,200
on Cedar Park, Bander, and Huddle have issued proud proclamations.

114
00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:28,180
This is not about a proclamation. It's really about whether all residents still see and valued by the local government.

115
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:39,440
The Liberty Home Road Charter states that we are firmly values a political engagement, diversity, inclusiveness, and regional cooperation.

116
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:49,000
It further states that we have found the value and inherent worth of other person in every individual's freedom of thought, speech and belief.

117
00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:53,500
Whether some of the supports I personally it's not the issue.

118
00:13:54,380 --> 00:14:01,660
The question is whether our local government is willing to recognize it from the beginning worth of all members of our community.

119
00:14:01,660 --> 00:14:13,260
A population does not grant special rights. It simply acknowledges that LGBTQ residents are part of this community, and if they too deserve to know they belong here.

120
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:25,280
Transparency builds trust, inclusion builds trust, listening builds trust. Future elections will be determined on that trust or like they're of.

121
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:36,640
I encourage the council to continue striving toward the values that you outlined in your own government documents, diversity, inclusiveness, and culture of law.

122
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:37,360
Thank you.

123
00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:39,890
Thank you.

124
00:14:46,460 --> 00:14:46,700
Okay.

125
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,320
With that, that is all, unless anyone else is here to speak.

126
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:52,640
Okay.

127
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:58,740
So we do have some that were sent in by email and those will be sent to all of Council.

128
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:11,220
On those that came in late. Next, we go to our consent agenda. Any questions or do we have a motion on the consent agenda council?

129
00:15:14,610 --> 00:15:16,810
I will do the consent agenda.

130
00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:20,130
Also again.

131
00:15:20,690 --> 00:15:22,750
Questions been seconded on in favor?

132
00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:25,070
Six billion Russian passes.

133
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:31,710
Bigular agenda item for a presentation on UBC, 613,

134
00:15:31,950 --> 00:15:34,510
outdoor lighting and its impact on residents and businesses.

135
00:15:35,470 --> 00:15:39,490
This is an item that Council of Ass for staff to

136
00:15:39,490 --> 00:15:43,310
bring forth information for an information,

137
00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:45,910
really what it was meant for us to educate

138
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:50,630
because this council hasn't been saying when make sure everyone is educated and now that we have a

139
00:15:50,630 --> 00:15:55,230
really incredible, well working staff, we felt like it would be done right for the residents and the citizens.

140
00:15:56,410 --> 00:15:58,930
So that's going to be presented by Laura.

141
00:15:59,130 --> 00:16:00,630
I believe, our city attorney.

142
00:16:00,950 --> 00:16:02,930
And so Laura, if you want to come on up.

143
00:16:03,330 --> 00:16:11,890
But she's going to explain how this ordinance is going to impact businesses and residents starting in 2027.

144
00:16:13,090 --> 00:16:29,560
So I'm, yes, I'm going to open the history of the ordinance and how it's working currently and then I will talk about non-conforming and what that looks like under the ordinance, which is okay, but I'm available for any questions as well.

145
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:41,420
So my name is Lauren, you are in the city attorney, and you know, we were given direction to staff to provide just information on how the ordinance is currently working.

146
00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:50,180
What it says in a little bit of the history of the ordinance so that everyone can be educated as the mayor stated on what the ordinance currently says.

147
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,400
And so the first thing that I wanted to go over is just where you can find the ordinance.

148
00:16:54,980 --> 00:16:56,920
It is in the unified development code.

149
00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:05,140
It can be a found online at where we hold our ordinances, but it's also there's a lot of information on our website about the ordinance.

150
00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:08,120
So I just wanted to provide that information initially.

151
00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:12,460
And it's section 6.13 of the Unified Development Code.

152
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,000
So the history I went through with the assistance of the city secretary related to

153
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,880
when it, that how we got to where we are today with the ordinance, that there were discussions starting

154
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:30,160
in 2020 related to the having a bucks guy or outdoor lighting ordinance.

155
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,520
There are hearings and discussions at P&D Council and the EDC.

156
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:41,240
The outdoor lighting ordinance was adopted on August of 2020, and then in July of 235,

157
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,320
we became the first, the city of Liberty Hill. We became the first international

158
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,420
dark sky community in Williamson County. Since then, there's been multiple discussions about

159
00:17:49,420 --> 00:17:55,180
the lighting ordinance, including how to incorporate it into the sign ordinance. But based on

160
00:17:55,180 --> 00:18:00,540
discussions at City Council, it was where they plan to address any changes during the UDCB

161
00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:02,160
which is currently occurring.

162
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:07,000
So, the purposes of the ordinance, as the ordinance has written,

163
00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:10,000
was with you some clear, improving nighttime visibility,

164
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,060
encouraging energy conservation, tourism as mentioned,

165
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,380
as well as protecting the night sky and protecting from light trespass,

166
00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:23,300
and to allow the city to apply for the international dark sky community designation,

167
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,580
which it did and was successful in 2025.

168
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:29,880
Application of the ordinance is primarily the city limits.

169
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:43,200
There are sometimes where we have an agreement with the subdivision or a commercial entity or if you request a variance and there's some relationship then it can be applied in the ETJ as well.

170
00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:54,460
Some key definitions, there's a lot of definitions in here and also I wanted to show kind of what it looks like as far as what a lighting fixture when you're trying to figure out the different types.

171
00:18:54,460 --> 00:19:00,060
Like for example, the color temperature is based on the number of Kelvin, so that can be listed on a

172
00:19:00,060 --> 00:19:05,160
lighting fixture, glare, what that means, you know, the visual discomfort caused by bright

173
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,140
force of light. Light trespasses, you know, when light falls on another person's property, that

174
00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:15,600
it's not or into a driver's eyes. Lemon is the unit of measurement, the amount of light

175
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,660
produced, and then the total outdoor light input is when you look at one piece of property and

176
00:19:20,660 --> 00:19:23,600
how many lumens from every lighting fixture

177
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,040
that you can see from the outside of the building?

178
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,460
The general, in these pictures are from the Ornits themselves.

179
00:19:32,420 --> 00:19:33,900
So some of the general requirements

180
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:37,000
that we have in our Ornits is shielding.

181
00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:38,960
Almost every light has to be shielding,

182
00:19:39,020 --> 00:19:41,060
unless it's a very low-women light.

183
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,560
And if you have to make sure that if you don't have shielding

184
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,040
that's also not doing light trespass,

185
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:49,360
you know, deleting light onto other people's property,

186
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:53,920
It can also be based on height, how children a light needs to be or not be.

187
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:58,660
The light trespass that's basically other than street lights that have some exemption.

188
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,920
The writing on any residential and residential area cannot bleed onto other people's properties.

189
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:14,460
Color temperature, so that is where you can kind of see the bright blue voices like a warmer color that's got to be limited,

190
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:21,840
and it's supposed to be less than 2500 Kelvin, which is what's listed on the outside of the light fixture.

191
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,680
You can see a light bulb that will show you on the packaging.

192
00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:32,680
there is a general curfew, but that can be modified by hours of operation. If someone's

193
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,380
open 24 hours a day, it doesn't apply to them, but adaptive controls where the lights

194
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:43,600
can go less or after closing time, then the lights can stay on if it can go down a little

195
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:49,260
bit or if there is no adaptive controls, then it needs to be turned off when the business is not open.

196
00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:51,740
or wouldn't put within one hour of that.

197
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:56,100
Women caps, so this is the amount of light

198
00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:59,860
that's being given out for non-residential,

199
00:20:59,940 --> 00:21:01,920
and needs to be less than 100,000,

200
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,380
and for residential needs to be less than 25,000,

201
00:21:05,380 --> 00:21:08,600
although in the ordinance it recommends even less than that.

202
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:11,320
And then there is adaptive controls,

203
00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:13,840
which is where you could have a dinner or something like that,

204
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:17,940
and that is something that is a can expand a cliff

205
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:23,060
for a business, but it also is something that is going to be required for all the government

206
00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:31,800
lighting moving forward, new lighting. Some places that don't, this picture is also in the

207
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,680
ordinance and it just kind of shows some different types of lighting pictures and what's

208
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,520
acceptable, what's unacceptable. For the outdoor light, sports facilities, there are some exemptions

209
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:45,320
for this, recognizing that some public facilities like schools might have different needs for lighting,

210
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,240
Towers are addressed, service stations are addressed, as far as how much

211
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,840
lighting can be used, or how tall it can be, flat poles, you know,

212
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,920
downward facing lighting rather than upward facing. And then public

213
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,320
properties are discussed frequently in the ordinance, kind of trying to

214
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,300
make those most compliant as far as the city is concerned, even before

215
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:06,540
the residential and non-residential.

216
00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:11,140
Non-conforming. So I think this is kind of where we're talking about the point

217
00:22:11,140 --> 00:22:14,180
where things are going to have to start being us or it's currently

218
00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:20,380
day, things are going to have to start being changed in 2027 as far as non-residential,

219
00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:28,260
we're all without an exemption, we'll have to change. But first for non-conforming, it has to

220
00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:33,380
be changed if more than 50% of the appraisal value of the structure is destroyed. So if it's

221
00:22:33,380 --> 00:22:38,620
being able to build a new building basically, for non-residential, for giving a rezoning

222
00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:44,000
application, a conditional use permit or after being a major addition, then you have to

223
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,400
to bring it into compliance at the same time.

224
00:22:46,980 --> 00:22:48,840
For residential though, the only time

225
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,560
that those have to be updated prior to the amortization

226
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,040
and of the end of the period where you get to keep your lights

227
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,580
is if you add new lights, whether new lights or new fixtures

228
00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:02,080
those need to be compliant.

229
00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:05,400
Four of the structures that they enable in six months,

230
00:23:05,820 --> 00:23:08,720
then when it's reopened, it needs to be brought into compliance.

231
00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:13,220
In a time you'll place a fixture, the new fixture needs to be compliant

232
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:27,560
And then it's five years as the mayor noted from 2022 to 27 is when all properties need to become into compliance with the lighting ordinance, but residential may apply for an additional 10 years of time to come into compliance.

233
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:43,300
For process, for compliance review, any time there's a building permit, there's a lighting plan that has to be submitted and that's for new outdoor lighting, updating existing lighting or new construction.

234
00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:45,760
The planning departments are one who does these reviews.

235
00:23:46,220 --> 00:23:56,340
They look at all the factors that I just discussed as far as what the regulations are, including illuminance, glare, safety, light, trust pass, and it's required for all new construction.

236
00:23:56,340 --> 00:24:02,340
And the modifications that I mentioned before, and you can't build these or install new lights

237
00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:03,620
until the lighting clean is approved.

238
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,920
The lighting clean, this is just a list of what needs to be in the lighting plan.

239
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,260
It's mostly just a list of everything that goes to the light, as far as lumens, calvins

240
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:20,680
all of that, what type it is, where it's going to be, and the shielding and any other controls

241
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,500
that you're doing to make sure that there's no light trespassing that meets the code of ordinances.

242
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:34,260
And then, in addition to all of this list, you can also add additional evidence if you want to show that it's compliant in some other way to the ordinance.

243
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:40,820
Accentions include swing lights, under one of the lighting for pools.

244
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:45,020
If the lighting is required by law, then it's allowed.

245
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:50,760
Emergency lighting, construction lighting, some governmental facilities are getting some exemptions.

246
00:24:51,260 --> 00:24:54,780
And then it does address temporary lighting for filming or something like that.

247
00:24:56,350 --> 00:24:59,970
slide regulations so this is part of the

248
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:09,120
The lighting one, it's not the sign one, but it's again the similar curfews involved. At top-down lighting, I don't

249
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:14,060
know what underwater lighting made it onto this as well, but I don't think there's underwater signs. Internal

250
00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:20,500
elimination, so you want, like, it's, we're, we're, we're clusting a dark background, not white lighting.

251
00:25:21,140 --> 00:25:28,540
But we still allow white color within the logo if someone has a logo that has white in it, then that's allowed up to 33% of the sign.

252
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:35,720
And then this also addresses the electronic message lines that you may have seen that have a scroll or something like that.

253
00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:38,380
It's limited in the places that it can be.

254
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,660
It can only change after a 30 seconds or more.

255
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,240
And then it depends on the outdoor light.

256
00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:51,640
So it's requesting that or requiring that the dimming be based on how bright it is or dark it is outside.

257
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,400
And it's limited to two within one mile of roadway.

258
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,200
violations, so this was another question that we got, what happens, it is, it can be

259
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,380
classed in this manner, which would go to municipal court, there can be civil penalties,

260
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,660
each day's a separate violation, and it generally goes through the co-forcement through

261
00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:11,920
cleaning and development.

262
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:18,660
Normally, I haven't heard of this being deviated from, but they get a letter asking them

263
00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:23,640
to comply, they're provided chances to meet the staff, to complete and to compliance.

264
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:31,140
They might get a stop-work order if they're already adding something that's not compliant, and that's true of any of our land use ordinances

265
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:38,120
And then, you know, if all those things failed and someone did not bring it compliant to then they could be brought to

266
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,160
the municipal court

267
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,540
So these are examples of non-compliant versus compliant lighting these are provided by staff

268
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,440
So Costco, you know downward the correct, you know lighting and then versus a

269
00:26:53,640 --> 00:27:04,960
non-compliant lighting. In a mobile room of questions, if you all happen yet, just about the ordinance in general, or the 2827 change.

270
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:10,940
Is it light on?

271
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:11,380
Yeah.

272
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,980
I happen to notice that mobile sign can't exit it.

273
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,920
Is that mobile just curious? Is that the normal sign?

274
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,220
So they would be allowed to do that since that's the logo.

275
00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:30,840
is that white part was less than 33% of the sign area and that's less than 200 square feet

276
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:36,480
or less. So they could probably have that sign. Yeah, those are all ones that like the

277
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,020
mobile sign they could have it as long as it's smaller than it. And it's part of their logo.

278
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:46,280
Okay, let's hear some of that. Yeah. And the lighting plan does a residence have to put a lighting

279
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,920
And we're talking about mostly new construction

280
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,720
or major in model more than 50%.

281
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,440
Do they have to do a lighting plan for a resident?

282
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,020
So yes, anytime they're adding lights

283
00:27:59,020 --> 00:28:02,120
or changing the addition, they have to do a lighting plan.

284
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,200
But all they're doing is listing the types of lights

285
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,080
that they're getting.

286
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:10,400
And then they just provide the packaging

287
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,580
that I showed when they get their lights

288
00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:13,940
or whoever's doing the construction,

289
00:28:13,940 --> 00:28:17,640
and they would provide these examples

290
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,480
so that city staff can look at it.

291
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,460
So it's not a formal, like a site plan or a plan.

292
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,660
It's more of a listing of these or lights I'm using

293
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:26,260
and these are where they're going on my house.

294
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:27,380
Another one more question.

295
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:30,300
Go back to where you showed a lights that are,

296
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:32,400
except what the ones are not that they're right there.

297
00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:35,980
So I'm looking at the one that's two from the bottom

298
00:28:35,980 --> 00:28:38,940
in the middle, that looks like a standard light.

299
00:28:39,180 --> 00:28:42,140
If I look in my neighborhood, a standard light nobody's garage.

300
00:28:42,140 --> 00:28:45,120
under the unacceptable.

301
00:28:47,420 --> 00:28:50,480
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,

302
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,240
because I have two of them on my garage too, it has a, you know, typical shield on top.

303
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,760
You're talking about, which I'll hand it this way.

304
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:07,440
Yes, yes, yes.

305
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,260
Yes, we'll be concerned.

306
00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:09,800
The shield is what?

307
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,760
Legal or is it dependent on my cousin?

308
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,360
It depends on the, what kind of life it's in there, and if it's less than 200 lumens,

309
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:26,800
which a lot of residential would be, then it's still okay, and really it says acceptable versus

310
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,820
unacceptable, but really it's based on more factors than that. This is just to give people a very

311
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:36,780
easy visual where they can look at it and be like, okay, this is the one that I can use or I need to

312
00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:41,580
be more careful with the other ones. It's kind of a sense of it's really bright in your face, you know,

313
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,580
that's not acceptable. I was just curious about that. I think that's all I have. Thomas, I think you

314
00:29:47,580 --> 00:29:47,680
Yeah.

315
00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:52,060
So, Rose, happy to answer any questions that you all have on this.

316
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,680
We have a second part of this presentation that Mayor Pro Tem was going to speak to because

317
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,960
she's got the context relative to kind of the history and things that have happened.

318
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,260
Over the past couple of years, that quite honestly, a lot of this staff just doesn't have.

319
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,340
And so, you can ask questions now, or she can go through that next part and additional questions after that.

320
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,980
Well, I do have some questions as well, just for clarification.

321
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,060
Council, I'd like to maybe ask questions on this, and she's gone through the material.

322
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,080
And I'll clear up this in a fair part, Tim, what do you all thoughts?

323
00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,660
I'll give it up. Okay.

324
00:30:27,660 --> 00:30:29,760
Are you just having any other questions, Tim?

325
00:30:30,020 --> 00:30:30,320
No, that's good.

326
00:30:31,020 --> 00:30:31,140
What?

327
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:31,820
No, no.

328
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:32,840
Wait.

329
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:33,860
Whatever.

330
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,060
Over discussion.

331
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:36,220
But we can wait till the end.

332
00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:36,860
Okay.

333
00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:39,840
I wanted to ask you on the.

334
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:43,140
The.

335
00:30:43,140 --> 00:30:43,220
The.

336
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:43,700
I know the penalties.

337
00:30:44,220 --> 00:30:46,780
This says that each day is a separate violation.

338
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,680
So if it's a classy misdemeanor.

339
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:50,320
Or so.

340
00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:51,600
An civil penalty.

341
00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:55,000
Is that for every day that they're not in compliance.

342
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,580
then they're right racking up classing misdemeanors. I don't understand why it's

343
00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:04,960
as each of the separate violation or why that statement is not necessary.

344
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:08,020
You're either in violation and you get a classing misdemeanor.

345
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,440
So that's a great question. Just to point out first, that's that classing misdemeanor is

346
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,580
that's criminal and civil, those are separate and they're used for different things.

347
00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:26,540
But for a class C misdemeanor, for a lot of items, whether there's an issue of non-compliance,

348
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,760
you know after being requested, and all of that, each day is a separate violation.

349
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:37,600
Not necessarily judge is the one who decides that, but each day you are not coming into compliance as

350
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,320
another misdemeanor, because each day it's another day that you're not coming into compliance.

351
00:31:43,060 --> 00:31:47,980
It's not required by law, it's not something that's written into co-like state law,

352
00:31:47,980 --> 00:31:56,840
but it is very common when you're talking about the violations where things like this or another example would be if you

353
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,280
issue a stop work world or because someone hasn't gotten a building permit yet and they keep not

354
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,740
applying for the building permit each day as a violation. So that's why it's in there but it's not

355
00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:09,660
required by law. It's just what's in your ordinance currently. Okay and then also in an ordinance anything

356
00:32:09,660 --> 00:32:17,020
and that's what I thought it was like a 500 dollar fine. So the fines are set. The maximum

357
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:26,100
fine for this one is 500 dollars. That's the maximum that the judge can issue. It's up

358
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:31,440
to the judge to decide. And he might have window fines on this, which I don't know if he does.

359
00:32:31,780 --> 00:32:36,240
And what that means is that he said a fine that's like if you just want to pay it and not go to court,

360
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,120
it can be less than that. I'd have to ask news for court staff, but there's a window

361
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:45,540
behind for this, but it is up to $500 and it's up to his discretion.

362
00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:51,100
And those federal residents as well, it's on anyone who violates their own residents or

363
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:53,480
this is not right, anyone who violates the ordinance.

364
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,500
And the statement will be moving to the other person's property. How is that,

365
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,120
I mean, that goes to the planning department or a code enforcement, do they have been

366
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,980
have to go get plans from the county to see where the property line ends. I'm sorry, I'm

367
00:33:11,980 --> 00:33:15,940
getting really detailed probably there, but I'm just trying to figure out who's going

368
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:19,380
to determine what leads and what someone else has bought property if we get a complaint

369
00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:26,100
as a city and then it's up to us to determine if it was actually bleeding into someone's property

370
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:26,820
and violation.

371
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,640
Yes, so if we, if this city, so practically, you know, we have a code enforcement department

372
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:39,260
that might at night see why it's that my understanding is it's complete based mostly.

373
00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:42,840
And so if a neighbor was complaining about the night light lights of their neighborhood,

374
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,960
but that they can see in their property and that there was a discussion and had and that wasn't fixed.

375
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,240
Then yeah, if there ever been get to the point in municipal court, which is a wrong way off,

376
00:33:53,580 --> 00:33:57,280
then there would have to be a showing that it's actually bleeding onto someone else's property.

377
00:33:57,340 --> 00:34:00,340
And that would be something that code enforcement, the prosecutor would do.

378
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:05,380
So, can I piggyback on that because that does actually stress-passing?

379
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:06,460
And what I want to talk about?

380
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,380
So, as you read the definition for light trespass,

381
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,400
means a light emitted from pictures designed to install the manner

382
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,540
that unreasonably causes light to fall on a property

383
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:17,320
other than the one where the light is installed.

384
00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:21,160
In a motor vehicle driver's eyes are upwards towards the sky.

385
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,220
If the light appears star-like from another property

386
00:34:24,220 --> 00:34:27,320
or a public roadway, the light is creating light trespass.

387
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,920
I've had a problem with this since I first learned about it two years ago.

388
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:37,340
There's not a front porch light anywhere in the city that you cannot see from the road.

389
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,760
And according to that definition, every single porch light in the city would be in violation.

390
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:51,260
So, I don't know where we got that definition from for light trespass, but I don't like it.

391
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,120
I've never liked it since we're sitting here talking about it now.

392
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,120
And I think most residents would probably agree with that.

393
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,960
Like most garage lights.

394
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:11,260
Front porch lights and things of that nature. I'll bet you at night that you can even if it is 200 limits or less, you're going to be able to see it from the road and it's going to look starlight.

395
00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:18,980
So my question is, kind of like hers, one, how are we going to enforce it to who's going to enforce it?

396
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:29,720
How much time and money are we going to spend enforcing it, and who actually gets to make that determination? We're going to have a calibrated piece of equipment that we're going to point towards that light and it's going to tell us

397
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:39,660
You know, what threshold it's at because every single home in our city has a light that will be in violation based on that definition.

398
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:43,730
Okay, 90 percent of them.

399
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:47,450
So, for, once again, it's complete based.

400
00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:56,870
So, my understanding is that there's not people driving around, you know, some cities do have people who they set up for nighttime to go around and make sure that the lights are compliant.

401
00:35:56,870 --> 00:36:00,770
My understanding is it's complaint based, so someone would have to complain about it first

402
00:36:00,770 --> 00:36:08,650
which doesn't, you know, just say there's not someone out there trying to, I mean of course when the building plans come in and everything they want it to be compliant

403
00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:15,110
So that's the first thing, the second thing is, that's a technical definition

404
00:36:15,110 --> 00:36:18,510
I did not research where that definition came from

405
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:24,930
It's not, I've seen it in other cities, but I don't know who originally drafted it, it might be an international dark sky definition

406
00:36:25,550 --> 00:36:31,850
But it's really, you know, it code enforcement is the one who enforces it.

407
00:36:31,950 --> 00:36:36,510
Also, there is a equipment out there that most, I don't know if our city has the right.

408
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:41,170
We have one of those and it's just a piece of equipment that you can use and it tells you whether

409
00:36:41,170 --> 00:36:45,780
what the rumors are and if it's compliant or not.

410
00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:47,120
I just see that.

411
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:47,720
I'll be in it.

412
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,300
That's going to be a nuisance on city staff.

413
00:36:50,940 --> 00:36:56,700
I mean, two neighbors that are like, you know what, you pissed me off today because the

414
00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:01,220
your light and now you got to deal with it. It's going to open such a can of worms.

415
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:10,260
So, I love that. I love the optimism from both of you. But this has been an effects

416
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:14,660
of Swainish Way, too. And my understanding is this has not been what's happening. That

417
00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:20,000
doesn't mean it can start happening tomorrow. But I know that Robin, you had something to

418
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,260
question about whether there's a lot of complaints and what y'all have experienced.

419
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,800
Well, I just asked my staff what complaints we hear from the development community was that we get them.

420
00:37:34,140 --> 00:37:38,740
Yeah. Well, that's development. I think right here we're more focused on residential and yeah.

421
00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:45,440
So it sounds as if with residential, we don't even really enforce anything until complaints start and then once complaints start.

422
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,340
And I guess it's going to come up with that definition.

423
00:37:47,820 --> 00:37:51,340
I feel like I think you can't look at the definition alone.

424
00:37:51,340 --> 00:37:55,200
And if you look at the frequently asked questions on how we're ordinances being forced

425
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,000
wherever it residents and education and awareness program along with potential incentives

426
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,220
and assistance is imperative to success, this also includes education and our citizens

427
00:38:04,220 --> 00:38:07,920
on how to approach a concern before proceeding to report it for enforcement.

428
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,240
It is not intended to have staff assigned to monitor the compliance of residents.

429
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,940
There are best practices that will be employed in this regard.

430
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:20,380
More information will be forthcoming as the programs are developed and deployed.

431
00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:30,400
So that will be addressed to make sure people are clear unless a definition actually means and I can tell you that it's easy to shield a lot with a 3D printed shield

432
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:37,700
And I don't agree that not even 90% are going to be in violation because a lot of the houses are built today where they're not

433
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:45,020
Well staffs going to go off the definition that's written in our ordinance

434
00:38:45,020 --> 00:38:58,120
Yeah, I mean, yeah, okay, whatever that definition is, a right trespassing, that will be the definition that staff will use to make a decision is the fight trust.

435
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:06,160
So the definition is important to take notice to, because that will determine whether it's considered trespassing.

436
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:11,960
I'm going to have a question from council and then we'll, okay, thank you, or if you're welcome, wish you had anything else.

437
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,040
Do you need the-

438
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:13,420
I do.

439
00:39:13,580 --> 00:39:13,680
I do.

440
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:14,340
I do.

441
00:39:14,340 --> 00:39:14,400
I do.

442
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:14,460
I do.

443
00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:14,480
I do.

444
00:39:16,820 --> 00:39:17,300
I do.

445
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:18,220
I do.

446
00:39:26,540 --> 00:39:27,220
I do.

447
00:39:27,220 --> 00:39:30,380
us on as we're growing so again

448
00:39:35,850 --> 00:39:41,770
I think red means no thank you since I was on the planning

449
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:46,810
and zoning commission starting in 2020 when a lot of this started as per the chronology

450
00:39:46,810 --> 00:39:52,390
of it all so I wanted to focus on some of the aspects of what we heard from the business

451
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:57,010
community when they expressed concerns and some background as you can see in the chronology

452
00:39:57,010 --> 00:39:59,970
that's in our packet. There was some amendments for payment.

453
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:14,820
And so that's when a lot of the things that you notice in the chronology started because it was a Senate bill that had this down to what kind of font size it was, and it sent people into a panic.

454
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:21,460
So I want to focus on some of the issues that these businesses had, and we can talk about what could be.

455
00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:36,260
At the time, in November, 21, 2024, the council decided not to proceed on with these two ordinances to amend anything because we were going to allow it to be as Laura said in the UDC rewrite.

456
00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:50,440
So, with that is, of course, as Laura said, the ordinance that was approved in August of 2022 was trying to reduce light pollution in our city and main dark skies for energy efficiency while left protection human health and astronomy.

457
00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:57,280
So, let me start off with the legal non-conforming use, which some of our people refer to as

458
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:58,540
grandfathering.

459
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,200
So, the legal non-conforming use for the signs, even on this current ordinance, is granted

460
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:09,540
to, as Laura mentioned to an existing sign, unless the sign is damaged by the honest specific

461
00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:16,100
defined threshold, which Laura mentioned the 50%, the sign is abandoned, and the legal

462
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:21,440
non-conforming use, and this is a concern of some property owners, what happens if the property

463
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:27,460
is sold, it goes with the property in a sale, but the new owner has six months to apply

464
00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:33,000
for a new permit. So that was a dress for them. For existing signs, they must comply with

465
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,920
the lighting ordinance requirements by August of 2022 on dimming, speed, and curfew. 11pm or

466
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,700
one hour after closing. Be clear, to be legal and non-conforming, you needed to be legal and

467
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:51,640
permitted in the first place. So there's that. So I just want to point out too, because I was

468
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,440
on the planning and sounding commission when we were doing the, we were looking to stop

469
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:02,160
back the sign ordinance to address these things for EMBs. We were told by staff at the time,

470
00:42:02,260 --> 00:42:10,420
you don't need to, because ordinance 19-0-017 for hyvidin, these EMBs, due to the negative impact

471
00:42:10,420 --> 00:42:15,400
on health, safety, and the refer of local residents. This is wrong before the lighting ordinance.

472
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:21,420
That in November 2021, 2022, during an ordinance cleaned up by the previous city secretary,

473
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:28,400
there was recommended to counsel to repel that ordinance because it was already in the signed ordinance, although it was not.

474
00:42:29,740 --> 00:42:38,700
So the proposed signed ordinance that was put on hold in 2024 for the UDC rewrite sought to reinstate that provision for new EMDs.

475
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:48,800
While still allowing the independent school district to be able to install new EMDs on school campuses based on the attorney's advice at the time,

476
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:54,000
that said that exceptions should be given to public schools because they provided public information.

477
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:03,280
However, that exception was linked to the lighting ordinance to still require those school districts to comply with the lighting on dimming, curfew, etc.

478
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:09,100
That exception does not exist today because Council at the time put that ordinance on hold.

479
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,820
So let's go to Registry of Science.

480
00:43:13,940 --> 00:43:18,700
One of the things that the current EMB businesses asked for was a creation of a registry

481
00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:23,700
to safeguard that the city would maintain the records so they would have legal dog conforming years.

482
00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:28,480
In discussion with staff at the time there was not a need for a separate registry to be created

483
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,020
it because a database already exists for permits. So therefore, the city is going to

484
00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:39,780
was to research the permits for those signs and obtain them from the owner. And the

485
00:43:39,780 --> 00:43:44,160
current permit system would address this concern for the MDs of the business owners that.

486
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:48,280
So there's no change to an ordinance needed on that concern.

487
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:55,440
Our conflict of the sign value basis in the lighting and the sign ordinance. That's what Laura

488
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,260
mentioned about the 50%, and staff at the time thought there could be an amendment to it

489
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:05,320
to look at structural aspects instead, let's be on my technical capabilities, but that

490
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,860
is a possibility that could be resolved if both use structural for both ordinances.

491
00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:17,340
And again, at the time, it was decided that we could wait for the EDC, but for the EDC,

492
00:44:18,340 --> 00:44:23,700
And it to be versus it to be resolved in a stop gap, which we can stop gap if we want to.

493
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:32,520
On the lighting ordinance effective date of 2027, at the time the sign ordinance amendment said 2029, it was very confusing back then.

494
00:44:33,020 --> 00:44:40,560
But note that the business that expressed this concern had alone on the sign and stated that given he was in the NTJ 2029 was okay.

495
00:44:41,140 --> 00:44:46,260
But at the time, at this time, it's a viewpoint because that sign ordinance amendment did not happen.

496
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:57,100
flashing Christmas lights. The current ordinance says that residents can have flashing Christmas lights. The businesses wanted them to.

497
00:44:57,780 --> 00:44:59,960
It can be changed. We just need to specify.

498
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:09,780
This is a five-year, the time November 15th, January 15th, and allowed non-residential to have it as well, but we need to specify the months if we've changed that.

499
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:22,220
Again, this is put on hold, but it can be done in a stock gap. The big question comes down to, can electronic messaging devices stay on all night if they're static and drop to 25%.

500
00:45:22,220 --> 00:45:29,120
The answer to that is no because EMD spread light in all direction, so shielding does not help them.

501
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:36,100
Studies have indicated that the only solution is reducing to 25% at sunset and turning off during the curfew until dawn.

502
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,620
EMDs are a major source of sky glow.

503
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,840
A former light pollution that writings this night sky and reduces visibility of stars,

504
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,360
They can also cause glare, light trespass, and clutter.

505
00:45:49,020 --> 00:45:52,040
If you go back to the original ordinance inside this city,

506
00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:55,200
EMDs were not allowed because they were considered blifed.

507
00:45:55,580 --> 00:45:56,580
They were considered clutter.

508
00:45:57,940 --> 00:46:00,980
And also because they were not considered safe.

509
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:05,900
Research from Federal Highway Administration shows EMDs divert driver attention.

510
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,660
They affect driver behavior, and they potentially reduce safety.

511
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,160
In terms of the advertising benefits that people argue,

512
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,300
There's no evidence that operating aside outside those

513
00:46:16,300 --> 00:46:20,360
curfew hours at midnight to dawn, given the traffic volume in

514
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,860
our city, wants the risk to traffic safety.

515
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,180
So that's the big sticking point on EMDs.

516
00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:31,200
But the businesses did not ever issues because this was not raised

517
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,280
by the businesses.

518
00:46:32,540 --> 00:46:35,220
The concern was raised on living a classy

519
00:46:35,220 --> 00:46:36,720
misdemeanor for violators.

520
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:42,440
The previous best on best practices and a research,

521
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,420
The subcommittee looked at options.

522
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:49,700
Council has those options that compares the other cities that are dark sky, et cetera.

523
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:58,160
Unfortunately, it was to start August of 2022 for new businesses coming into play with the new sign ordinances, et cetera, new houses, et cetera.

524
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:04,880
And the penalties were planned to be amended during the UDC rewrite to ensure consistency with all city ordinances.

525
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:11,720
If you go back to what our current city ordinances are for other violations, they are a class C, and they do find $700 a day.

526
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:17,960
The lighting ordinance is not going to affect until August of 2027 for existing businesses and residents.

527
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:26,700
So there's still time to resolve this issue and it was decided in 2024 to resolve it during the UDC rewrite, but we can stop gap it.

528
00:47:26,980 --> 00:47:39,780
So there's a separate report on the penalty clauses and we can, I do recommend and did back then that we separate development from residents and that we can look at different penalties for residents.

529
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:43,840
We can stop gap it right now, or we can wait till the UDC rewrite.

530
00:47:44,060 --> 00:47:48,540
That's not going to affect anything for us to change this for penalties.

531
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:57,380
Other concerns I've heard are that if I see the bulb, it's I'm going to get in trouble.

532
00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:03,320
There's inexpensive 3D printed shields to go over the light bulb that can address this if it's even needed.

533
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,400
For a trespass, most portraits are not going to be trespassing.

534
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,260
Concerns on safety. Again, it is a start sky not dark brown.

535
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,660
Shielded and directed light is better for safety, for studies and studies and shown that.

536
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,320
You can see what's in the shadows better.

537
00:48:20,580 --> 00:48:23,580
Concerns on not understanding lumens and kelvin's for residents.

538
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,200
Light bulb boxes have lumens stated on them.

539
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:29,240
Typical ones used by residents do not exceed the ordinance.

540
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:35,260
Even party lights sold at venues like Dipper within the 2,700 kelvin requirements

541
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:36,860
and that is stated on the box.

542
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,860
The UDC rewrite, but I will say this.

543
00:48:41,140 --> 00:48:44,360
The UDC rewrite was intended to make it easier to understand,

544
00:48:44,580 --> 00:48:46,000
not just for the life of your units,

545
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:47,220
before all our ordinances.

546
00:48:48,060 --> 00:48:50,020
Some requirements aren't specifically

547
00:48:50,020 --> 00:48:51,760
site for non-residential,

548
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,340
but we need to make it clearer in the UDC rewrite.

549
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,760
And that's already also been addressed

550
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,740
in the FAQs that are on our website.

551
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,220
There's still time to do this before affectivity.

552
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:09,640
So, let's talk about two other things that are really concerning, and they concerned me.

553
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:13,320
The concern on the cost of businesses to comply.

554
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:19,600
Since I was on planning and zoning back in 2022, and the Council at the time on August of 2022,

555
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,780
asked for the EDC to grant assistance to businesses.

556
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,980
And amazingly, a grant program was approved by the EDC August 18th 2022.

557
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,360
The question is, where is it?

558
00:49:33,890 --> 00:49:44,630
There are other grant opportunities as well, like Hill Country Alliance, and efforts, but I will say I think we need some efforts to assist businesses in determining what their needs are for retrofit.

559
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:47,270
The unknown is what's scary to all of us, right?

560
00:49:47,830 --> 00:49:49,690
So it would be helpful.

561
00:49:49,850 --> 00:49:55,270
There was a time when we talked about going around and helping businesses and having a big barbecue, like in the old days, right?

562
00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:59,170
Where we all have barbecue, and then we talk about how can we help them fix this?

563
00:49:59,550 --> 00:49:59,970
And there are...

564
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,780
Companies that can help retrofitting existing Victor fixtures as well as 3D printed shields.

565
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:11,740
So, that's one of the things that I think we do need to focus on, and we do need to figure out what happened to those EDC grants.

566
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:17,040
The second big concern is, there's only now 14 months left.

567
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:25,460
I mean, what happened? It's not fair to our current new staff to say you've got 14 months now to do what we needed to do in five years.

568
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:29,640
And so, and we need time to get education and grants in place.

569
00:50:29,940 --> 00:50:35,220
Thomas, I don't know if you want to talk about this a little bit because you were the one that brought this issue forward.

570
00:50:37,170 --> 00:50:38,710
Do you want to talk about it? Anything?

571
00:50:40,770 --> 00:50:46,850
Well, I think the thing that we had talked about was, you know,

572
00:50:47,370 --> 00:50:49,790
I'm a staff perspective, we need to understand the policy position.

573
00:50:49,870 --> 00:50:52,650
The city hasn't existing ordinance and existing regulations.

574
00:50:52,650 --> 00:51:01,110
and as 2027 approaches, we need to make sure that we are resourcing in whatever way necessary

575
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:08,930
to meet that regulation. At the same time, I don't think that it's unfair to say that there

576
00:51:08,930 --> 00:51:13,150
are things that could have been done over the past four years that could have made this transition

577
00:51:13,150 --> 00:51:22,250
a little bit easier. And so as I was thinking through the some of the issues, whether there's a policy

578
00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:29,190
change or not, I think at time is the number one thing that I hear is that this is bearing

579
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:32,890
down on us and we've only got so many months to come into compliance of what does that

580
00:51:32,890 --> 00:51:38,430
look like. The reality is we've discovered that there was a grant program that was supposed to have

581
00:51:38,430 --> 00:51:43,170
been enacted. We've discovered that there could have been more education and outreach and we

582
00:51:43,170 --> 00:51:48,290
discovered that there are some significant questions and so just from a administrative standpoint,

583
00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:56,770
The question that I asked was, what an extension would be acceptable if the policy position

584
00:51:56,770 --> 00:52:02,690
and goal from this council was to maintain dark sky designation and you did reach out

585
00:52:02,690 --> 00:52:07,350
and have that conversation and it sounds like that is a possibility but I'll let you answer

586
00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:08,910
that.

587
00:52:09,410 --> 00:52:17,970
So we want to be successful at this and so I did reach out and say could we extend by two years

588
00:52:17,970 --> 00:52:25,690
moved from August of 2027 to August of 2029 and I went through a list of things as to why I

589
00:52:25,690 --> 00:52:32,890
thought that was justifiable. It is an option. Should council decide to do that and then Thomas

590
00:52:32,890 --> 00:52:37,810
would email them to tell them that we're planning to do that. The ordinance would need to be changed

591
00:52:37,810 --> 00:52:45,410
and it would be covered in our annual report. So it is possible to extended another two years. Yes,

592
00:52:45,410 --> 00:52:48,870
They would be willing to do, yes, that would not affect us whatsoever.

593
00:52:49,690 --> 00:52:51,770
And because everybody wants it to be successful,

594
00:52:52,490 --> 00:52:56,130
I'm not happy that we didn't do everything that we thought we were going to do back then.

595
00:52:56,130 --> 00:52:56,970
I will be honest.

596
00:52:57,670 --> 00:53:00,990
But I do think that, you know, we had an EDC grants.

597
00:53:01,210 --> 00:53:02,050
We have all these things.

598
00:53:02,230 --> 00:53:04,110
We need to step back and do it right.

599
00:53:04,590 --> 00:53:07,650
And I do want to set staff up for success.

600
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:14,370
So I would recommend to Council that we go ahead and pursue extending it for two years

601
00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:19,090
for the compliance aspects so that we can go back and get the grants in place. We can

602
00:53:19,090 --> 00:53:24,210
get the education in place. If you want to stop graphic great, otherwise we like the UDC

603
00:53:24,210 --> 00:53:28,490
proceed on so there's consistency among our ordinances in the UDC.

604
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:34,300
I have a quick question for you on the grants.

605
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:47,760
Oh no thank you as extensive appreciate it's a very important understand history is important

606
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:53,740
understand as we're making decisions for the future the EDC grant is the EDC grants that you

607
00:53:53,740 --> 00:53:59,320
were saying and that would come through our EDC yes it was approved by the council and I

608
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:13,300
I think it was August 10th, the planning and zoning recommended it to Council. Council stated that they wanted EDC grants but into place. EDC met at the next meeting and approved grants to be put in place.

609
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,660
But it never came back to Council for this question.

610
00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:26,620
But my next question, my real next question is how is it determined how much money of the EDC fund?

611
00:54:26,620 --> 00:54:33,760
then goes to the grants. It's just the same process as I feel like what we do on a non-profits.

612
00:54:34,340 --> 00:54:42,260
Because I would say that, to help people to repay their buildings. We pay people to

613
00:54:42,260 --> 00:54:46,940
redo different things to help businesses. So I think that was it. So EDC would be over that.

614
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:51,520
The EDC board of the council. I think council would be over that. That's something I would like to know.

615
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,820
Yes. I would think. How much I would defer to you. But I think it would be a council decision

616
00:54:58,570 --> 00:54:59,970
I think that the hope is there.

617
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:22,140
Whatever the policy position is, this council decides, whether it's to move forward with the existing ordinance, as written, or to apply for essentially a two-year extension, or any merit of things. Whatever that is, our job is going to be to come back to y'all, really through the FY2027 budget process and say,

618
00:55:22,140 --> 00:55:28,160
Here's the things that we need to do in order to meet the intent of what y'all have directed us to.

619
00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:38,500
And so if that is to incorporate a program such as a grant program, we would work with the EDC to get that done.

620
00:55:39,220 --> 00:55:43,960
Just off the top of my head, we would probably recommend that it be done similar to the community grant process,

621
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,200
where there's probably a couple of times a year where an application process is open.

622
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,360
would want it to be really defined, that budget authority would be included in the budget process.

623
00:55:54,680 --> 00:56:04,220
And so we would essentially be bringing forward essentially a program overview for compliance related to dark sky.

624
00:56:04,540 --> 00:56:09,220
They would include grants, how a complaint based system, how it would resource it.

625
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:16,320
Because the last thing that we wanted to do is put together a program and have council not understand what that looks like.

626
00:56:16,820 --> 00:56:17,320
Does that make sense?

627
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:27,580
So my next question was, if we Council chooses to extend and thank you for checking in,

628
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:34,740
that that extended so you can keep our designation, will there still be the requirement

629
00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:40,840
for any new businesses coming in to fall within this ordinance that we have that we have

630
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:41,160
in place.

631
00:56:41,380 --> 00:56:42,460
It's just extended.

632
00:56:42,460 --> 00:56:50,060
know, we've extended it. No, the extension would only be related to the amortization, right? So, yeah,

633
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:54,720
the existing, we're, we're still anybody that comes in. So for residents, it's about existing

634
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:56,620
businesses that would impact residents.

635
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,880
No, that is still a situation would just be for the

636
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:07,240
amortization people that are required to fall to come into compliance. But it would be for existing

637
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:13,000
residents and existing businesses. It would be new businesses in any new thing bill. Any new

638
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,080
sales would still comply with the current board.

639
00:57:15,980 --> 00:57:18,320
So that in two or three years we don't have to.

640
00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:20,120
I think we're saying the same thing differently.

641
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:20,960
All right.

642
00:57:20,980 --> 00:57:21,460
Thank you.

643
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,100
Yeah, for the grant program.

644
00:57:23,220 --> 00:57:31,380
I mean, if I understand it correctly, it is to financially assist existing businesses in the expense that comes with coming into compliance with their current science.

645
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:41,520
So, as long as I understand that correctly, I think we would need to have meetings to give grants more often than once or twice a year, right?

646
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,660
because they're gonna apply, they need to money kind of now.

647
00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:47,120
I mean, it takes time, one to apply,

648
00:57:47,260 --> 00:57:50,180
two to get the money three to get the new sign.

649
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:52,380
So if we only did that once or twice a year,

650
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:53,780
it's not really helping our businesses

651
00:57:53,780 --> 00:57:54,680
come and become clients.

652
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,080
So I would think that would be a minimum of

653
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:58,560
a quarterly discussion.

654
00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:02,120
Hey, we've got XYZ businesses applying for the grant.

655
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,400
Let's give them the grant, and they get the money,

656
00:58:04,540 --> 00:58:05,680
then they fix their sign.

657
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:06,360
Makes sense?

658
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,580
Yeah, I think the, yeah, the rule would work out the schedule.

659
00:58:10,580 --> 00:58:21,940
And at the end of the day, there would probably be a recommendation from us that y'all could take or not to say that we would want to see the business owner fitting, you know, putting 50% of that bill.

660
00:58:22,940 --> 00:58:24,420
I think that there needs to be some.

661
00:58:24,500 --> 00:58:27,760
We'll just have a cap on the amount of grant that we can set that we can afford to give.

662
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:29,580
Yeah, that's my other kind of budget options.

663
00:58:29,580 --> 00:58:34,400
I think to make sure we're going to access the taxpayer dollars from the EDC funding.

664
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,700
And it's not going to go towards building up downtown or anything.

665
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:38,880
It's going towards businesses.

666
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:40,460
I would like to hold them accountable.

667
00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:47,400
The other thing to just remember is that you're talking about a really a finite amount of signs.

668
00:58:47,900 --> 00:58:50,640
And probably not 500 of them, right?

669
00:58:51,620 --> 00:58:54,680
So it doesn't seem like this would be a forever program.

670
00:58:54,680 --> 00:59:04,460
You've got an existing number of signs and anything new coming in would either come into compliance or would fall underneath one of the pre-authorized exemptions.

671
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,680
So in theory, we're talking about a limited amount.

672
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:10,680
For it's worth it.

673
00:59:12,100 --> 00:59:12,720
Thank you.

674
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:14,160
Thank you.

675
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:14,840
Thank you.

676
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:15,180
Thanks, Diane.

677
00:59:15,700 --> 00:59:16,500
For your program, Williams.

678
00:59:16,660 --> 00:59:17,500
Thank you.

679
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:19,320
Really appreciate that.

680
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,200
And this discussion is exactly what the intention was.

681
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:32,640
So, for anybody who is concerned that we're going to throw dark skies out the window, it's not going to happen with this council, it's just not going to happen.

682
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:41,020
It's really to, as we get closer to 0.27, it's to find out what's the impact everybody and make sure that we do this the right way.

683
00:59:41,220 --> 00:59:43,260
So, this discussion is really just part of it.

684
00:59:43,860 --> 00:59:45,600
And I was concerned about the grants myself.

685
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:50,100
at a conversation with their city manager as well. They said talk about grants where

686
00:59:50,100 --> 00:59:54,260
are they and we're a bit more psychobin have additional discussion. So I really appreciate

687
00:59:54,780 --> 00:59:59,760
Mayor Protown Boys put together today more of what you put together in staff and this is exactly

688
00:59:59,760 --> 00:59:59,960
the kind of...

689
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:09,460
On the conversation we have in public, we all can understand, get educated further on what this means to our city. So thank you again for that. I really appreciate it.

690
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:19,380
So as far as if any changes are going to be made, I definitely feel that there needs to be discussion on the classiness demeanor for a resident.

691
01:00:20,820 --> 01:00:47,680
I think of my mom and dad, they have enough physical and health, but you know, but it's just not enough, I think that they're watching that that would then follow me, I've already heard their concerns about being fined and, you know, there's like, we're going to be going to take it, you know, there, you know, so I just want to make sure that we're mindful of our residents and I do feel that classy is, you know, I don't know what y'all thought so her, but I think it's a little harsh.

692
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,980
Well, there are comparisons in that thing that it was sent out GLS correspondence that I got,

693
01:00:52,060 --> 01:00:56,480
but I actually prepared it. And so there's options here, and we're going to have to amend the

694
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:02,060
ordinance anyway if we're going to extend it for two years. And so they could address the thought

695
01:01:02,060 --> 01:01:07,400
the Piddlestick's as part of that stock gap, if you will. So then if we...

696
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:12,280
And I agree. So then as a counselor, if you feel that, yes, we do. There are a few of these

697
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:19,320
things that we would like to take a look at and have a stop gap. How would we move forward on that?

698
01:01:19,380 --> 01:01:29,400
Because I know we're in the middle of our UDC. We can raise our staff to come back with an amended ordinance that addresses those two aspects as a stop gap.

699
01:01:29,820 --> 01:01:36,460
Correct. The which two aspects besides the violations and the extension of compliance time. Is that?

700
01:01:36,460 --> 01:01:42,740
Yeah. Yeah, anything that you want to see as a man. And then also direct staff to pursue the

701
01:01:42,740 --> 01:01:49,440
the grants that EDC had for it. Yeah. What about those? Yeah. There's a grant that

702
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,740
across the listeners through I, because before we direct staff, we all kind of have to be an agreement.

703
01:01:54,200 --> 01:02:00,340
Well, I think staff would come back. I think staff would come back with a proposal to distinguish

704
01:02:00,340 --> 01:02:07,280
Distinguished between developer compliance and residential compliance. Yeah

705
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:13,360
Okay, I doubt proposed changing the developer compliance the fine for a day doesn't affect pretty much

706
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,120
They won't anything anyway

707
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,920
Yeah, quick question them. They class the thing in general

708
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:24,560
Oh, I understand on some of the ordinances to say somebody's grass is 10 feet high

709
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:30,740
So I'm wondering what you got and I didn't read it.

710
01:02:30,780 --> 01:02:32,800
I read it quite understand it was just for lighting.

711
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,300
This is just an lighting.

712
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,800
But I will tell you that when we were

713
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:41,700
Mending the lighting ordinance in August of 2022 planning and zoning,

714
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,880
the fine at the time was a class A, which is higher in the

715
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,440
current in the previous lighting ordinance, right?

716
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:59,380
But I think most correct if I'm on most of the UDC is a class C. Most of the UDC, if not all of the UDC is a class C.

717
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:02,280
So all of the UDC is currently a class C.

718
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,640
So it's typical of violation of ordinances.

719
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:08,260
That's the maximum pedal.

720
01:03:08,580 --> 01:03:09,460
That would be applied.

721
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,140
Financial penalty as well as.

722
01:03:13,540 --> 01:03:13,780
I'll suit.

723
01:03:14,300 --> 01:03:14,340
Thank.

724
01:03:14,340 --> 01:03:15,300
It's class C or whatever.

725
01:03:15,300 --> 01:03:19,340
And click me if I'm wrong, but that penalty doesn't listen, I mean, they get 30 days, right?

726
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,300
It's coming to compliance and now what I read?

727
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:22,060
Yeah.

728
01:03:22,100 --> 01:03:22,920
Thank you.

729
01:03:23,180 --> 01:03:25,720
So it's not like it's not a commodity yet.

730
01:03:25,740 --> 01:03:26,700
Hey, you're out of compliance.

731
01:03:26,940 --> 01:03:27,860
Here's your $500 fine.

732
01:03:28,100 --> 01:03:28,680
It's no here.

733
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:29,460
You're out of compliance.

734
01:03:29,660 --> 01:03:30,840
You've got 30 days to comply.

735
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,180
It's a classy atmosphere after that.

736
01:03:33,260 --> 01:03:33,700
I don't know.

737
01:03:33,700 --> 01:03:34,280
I don't know.

738
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:35,680
Let's.

739
01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:38,300
So I keep you here is.

740
01:03:40,290 --> 01:03:42,290
What type of a program are we going to have?

741
01:03:42,810 --> 01:03:50,370
I think that there's a lot of merit to any program, you know, I'll use the example of somebody who's not taking care of their property and their grass is too tall.

742
01:03:51,130 --> 01:03:56,850
We're not going to go out there and say we're issuing you a $500 fine because your grass is too tall.

743
01:03:57,090 --> 01:04:03,030
It's going to be education in outreach. No different thing when we get into a drought conservation situation.

744
01:04:03,410 --> 01:04:06,270
We're going to educate one of the most early stages of drought.

745
01:04:06,270 --> 01:04:09,650
And so it will never be our recommendation

746
01:04:09,650 --> 01:04:13,990
and on something like this that we come out heavy handed.

747
01:04:14,650 --> 01:04:19,310
I think we have to be in the education piece of it.

748
01:04:19,310 --> 01:04:22,910
And less directed otherwise, but I think before we even get

749
01:04:22,910 --> 01:04:26,570
to citation, we have done outreach and we have done

750
01:04:26,570 --> 01:04:28,250
a significant amount of it.

751
01:04:28,350 --> 01:04:30,210
Now that does not come without resources.

752
01:04:30,350 --> 01:04:31,310
I want to be clear.

753
01:04:32,970 --> 01:04:34,850
You know, in order to provide a service,

754
01:04:34,850 --> 01:04:39,230
we have to be able to have the resources to provide said service. So going back to the previous

755
01:04:39,230 --> 01:04:46,790
question of what can we bring back. There's a lot of material that you all have regarding tonight.

756
01:04:47,090 --> 01:04:55,290
And so I think if you wanted to a broader direction could be to bring back a proposed revision

757
01:04:55,290 --> 01:04:59,970
based on the stop gaps that have been discussed and we would be happy to

758
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,200
If there's the specific things that y'all want to make sure,

759
01:05:06,220 --> 01:05:12,660
then please include those. But I think generally, there's not going to be anything outside of the scope of what we've discussed tonight.

760
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:20,680
And a revision doesn't, it's just a proposal. It doesn't obligate you guys to do anything. It's could just be a good starting point.

761
01:05:23,460 --> 01:05:28,780
And you don't need us to direct you to contact because you will, as we discuss, you've got to email in to

762
01:05:28,780 --> 01:05:34,920
Commissal, is our contact, you'll have to email in to our Sky International, but we're not expecting issues.

763
01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:43,060
Okay, I'm moved to bring back a proposed, direct staff to bring back a proposed revision based on the stopgats discussed.

764
01:05:43,620 --> 01:05:44,060
Well, second.

765
01:05:46,900 --> 01:05:48,760
Motion's been made in second, did all in favour?

766
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:51,880
6-0, motion passes.

767
01:05:53,420 --> 01:06:00,640
It's a one point clarification that email will not go out until council takes action or not on the proposal.

768
01:06:01,260 --> 01:06:01,800
No problem.

769
01:06:02,940 --> 01:06:04,340
That's not a problem.

770
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:17,310
Okay.

771
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:21,610
We go to item 4b discussion regarding proclamation guidelines.

772
01:06:22,170 --> 01:06:24,650
This was asked to be brought back to council.

773
01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:30,610
So that council could have a moment to read the policy that we already have in place.

774
01:06:31,690 --> 01:06:39,450
And if there's no, I know there was an email sent to us by Councillor Helping to consider

775
01:06:40,510 --> 01:06:45,250
a, I don't think it was those city of Cedar Park's ordinance, I just wanted to, I know we

776
01:06:45,250 --> 01:06:47,730
had just spoke before that, but could feel a shared council.

777
01:06:48,310 --> 01:06:53,570
Oh, it was, I actually was supposed to add a couple more to it, I just didn't, it was just

778
01:06:53,570 --> 01:06:58,630
for like, so we could see what I was surrounding cities are doing and if there's any

779
01:06:58,630 --> 01:07:03,630
differences, but I looked through it all and I didn't really notice anything different than what we had, so.

780
01:07:04,670 --> 01:07:04,850
Okay.

781
01:07:06,930 --> 01:07:07,150
Yep.

782
01:07:08,050 --> 01:07:10,550
I know from, I don't know how long I'd go.

783
01:07:10,910 --> 01:07:13,730
It's been, you've talked about so many things, but you and I had discussion.

784
01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:23,510
And one of the things in the current guidelines that I wanted to bring out was to, to just make sure that it's something that you want to continue leaving.

785
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:34,090
And it's in the website form, and it's also in the guidelines.

786
01:07:34,670 --> 01:07:36,290
Oh, not the platform.

787
01:07:37,110 --> 01:07:44,590
Guidelines and the Proclamation form, where it request and ask, would you like to pop

788
01:07:44,590 --> 01:07:49,750
Proclamation presented at the City Council meeting or another event?

789
01:07:49,750 --> 01:08:00,850
And I thought, when you and I were discussing it, there was the general thought that it would not always be at a council event that would really be up to your discretion.

790
01:08:01,390 --> 01:08:12,690
Because it goes on to say the original, and then the guidelines go on to say their original proclamation will be presented to the individual organization, et cetera.

791
01:08:13,730 --> 01:08:16,150
and made arrangements at the city council meeting.

792
01:08:16,750 --> 01:08:19,070
And so for me, this is a mayor proclamation.

793
01:08:19,350 --> 01:08:22,950
So I would defer to you, but I just wanted to point out that aspect

794
01:08:22,950 --> 01:08:25,530
that we had talked about it might not always be at a council meeting,

795
01:08:25,710 --> 01:08:28,130
so I don't know if you want to ask that or not,

796
01:08:28,310 --> 01:08:30,010
or if that's the decision you want to make.

797
01:08:31,290 --> 01:08:34,330
I mean, since they put, there's going to be moments where

798
01:08:34,330 --> 01:08:38,270
proclamations made and it may be better to have it done at an event.

799
01:08:39,150 --> 01:08:43,790
So, I think that's just what Diane and I were discussing is making sure the wording is

800
01:08:43,790 --> 01:08:49,370
there that doesn't hold the proclamation only happen in a council meeting, but then there's

801
01:08:49,370 --> 01:08:54,630
leeway to say if it best fits going to whether it's, you know, we're really held by the

802
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:59,090
Sea Ranch, because for the first time, you know, we'll do a cool proclamation for the kids,

803
01:08:59,410 --> 01:09:02,290
you know, that we'd want to do that when we get the high school, right? So, I think that was

804
01:09:02,290 --> 01:09:07,130
the intention there. And if wording needs to be there, I'm not really sure we need to get that specific

805
01:09:07,130 --> 01:09:12,790
in the policy, but Council signed with the way it is and that direction.

806
01:09:14,790 --> 01:09:17,270
The question asks them, I would like to free them to do that.

807
01:09:18,290 --> 01:09:22,610
I don't know if you want to decide, do you want to present it at an event and just let them specify,

808
01:09:22,970 --> 01:09:24,590
but not specify, I can't.

809
01:09:24,990 --> 01:09:28,550
I think it should be up to the applicant to know where they want it.

810
01:09:28,690 --> 01:09:30,430
They want it at a council meeting or at any event.

811
01:09:30,810 --> 01:09:35,110
And then if it is going to be done at event, then to make sure that every council member that there's, you know,

812
01:09:35,810 --> 01:09:40,230
request every council member is invited to that moment and I don't know that you have to

813
01:09:40,230 --> 01:09:43,250
train to the other morning. Okay, I wanted to make sure that I saw a lot of your

814
01:09:43,250 --> 01:09:47,250
previous discussions. Okay, thinking about that sounds good. There are any other

815
01:09:47,250 --> 01:09:51,170
questions by council? All right. Have a quick question. Yeah, just curious how

816
01:09:51,170 --> 01:09:56,250
do you know how would those who are requesting this know whether it's confirmed or

817
01:09:56,250 --> 01:09:59,830
denied, but the request has to do with us as a material myself.

818
01:10:00,750 --> 01:10:07,010
Is that possible to outline that or I didn't see any other cities is just you would know based on e-mail or commutation.

819
01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:08,450
All right, yeah, just the

820
01:10:11,940 --> 01:10:17,380
same. The procedures that are posted online include sending it to the city secretary.

821
01:10:18,260 --> 01:10:23,840
And I would coordinate with the mayor on whether or not she wants to move forward with the proclamation.

822
01:10:26,540 --> 01:10:27,440
Anything else?

823
01:10:29,770 --> 01:10:37,350
All right, we move on to item 4c discussion consideration possible action to clarify citizen public comments,

824
01:10:39,860 --> 01:10:40,740
and

825
01:10:40,740 --> 01:10:45,220
Yeah, we'll let you start this out. Is that good for you or

826
01:10:45,220 --> 01:10:56,440
Why don't you introduce Diane let's let's get some feedback as to why this is put on here again, and then okay bring up legal right so I brought this agenda item

827
01:10:56,440 --> 01:11:03,740
before Council and the public to ensure clarity on the recent change that we no longer read

828
01:11:03,740 --> 01:11:09,820
public comments even if they're requested because there's confusion and some inconsistencies

829
01:11:09,820 --> 01:11:17,780
with the previous city secretaries page that they can be emailed in and passed operating procedures

830
01:11:17,780 --> 01:11:27,120
etc. So my concern is just the transparency of the change because it is not required in a

831
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:32,820
home or charter. It is not required by law. It is not required in our ordinance. But I just would

832
01:11:32,820 --> 01:11:37,640
like to update our webpage to make sure people are more aware that even if you say it's going to be

833
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:43,240
requested we're not going to do this. And so this is just a discussion for council decide what it wants

834
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:49,000
to do, but for me, I do believe in the inherent right that people have a guaranteed participation

835
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:49,720
in their government.

836
01:11:50,860 --> 01:11:56,900
And so for me, if you send it in at five o'clock and she's forced to put it here on the desk

837
01:11:56,900 --> 01:12:03,180
or email it to me tomorrow, I don't get to see your input in order before I make a decision.

838
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:08,560
And I believe that is my job as a council member, at least speaking for myself, to read those

839
01:12:09,580 --> 01:12:21,320
Also, there's a second part of that is that at the last meeting, some of our council members were referencing emails they had gotten, but yet I was not aware of it, because it only went to them.

840
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:29,420
We have an ordinance that says if it goes to one of us, it goes to all of us, and that's the responsibility of us as council members to do that.

841
01:12:29,420 --> 01:12:31,740
because the city secretary may or may not know.

842
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,100
So in order to make that happen,

843
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,580
where I feel like I'm doing such a well,

844
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,140
I feel like we may have to back it up and be clear on our website.

845
01:12:40,620 --> 01:12:45,600
You have until five o'clock to submit a form to speak in public here.

846
01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:51,040
But in terms of emailing in, if a council is to consider that,

847
01:12:51,100 --> 01:12:56,240
power to making a decision, there needs to be a different deadline for those for us to get it,

848
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,220
because I want to see it in the email.

849
01:12:58,220 --> 01:13:02,660
I, and people could say, well, you wouldn't care how good if we read it.

850
01:13:02,700 --> 01:13:05,600
I'll be honest, I'm a visual person. I need to read it.

851
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:07,220
And I need time to comprehend it.

852
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:11,540
Hearing it doesn't always register for me either, right?

853
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,220
So I just want us to be clear on what these procedures are.

854
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:21,380
I just want to refresh everybody's memory on Code of Ordnance 2.02033.

855
01:13:21,480 --> 01:13:24,580
That requires any document letter correspondence verbal or written.

856
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,340
To be transmitted to one of us.

857
01:13:27,340 --> 01:13:31,700
be transmitted to all of us, so that we're all in the level playing field and we know what's

858
01:13:31,700 --> 01:13:32,140
been happening.

859
01:13:32,780 --> 01:13:35,980
And I think it's kind of hard for us to, and I'm happy for staff to speak.

860
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,740
I think it's very hard for us to be secretary who gets what at five o'clock, what

861
01:13:39,740 --> 01:13:40,420
she's going to do.

862
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:44,660
She gets, I mean, and all of us up here, we call the days when we were complaining, not

863
01:13:44,660 --> 01:13:49,500
with you Laura, but some other previous staff, or we would get something at five thirty, and

864
01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:52,580
we didn't have time to comprehend really that much less comprehend it.

865
01:13:52,580 --> 01:13:55,080
So I think that we still, my,

866
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:58,840
just purpose of my discussion today and learn feel free to come up.

867
01:13:59,060 --> 01:14:02,240
But for me, I don't oppose changing it.

868
01:14:02,300 --> 01:14:03,540
I just want to be transparent.

869
01:14:04,420 --> 01:14:06,820
And I also want to make sure that we back up

870
01:14:06,820 --> 01:14:08,740
and that we make sure it's very clear

871
01:14:08,740 --> 01:14:10,460
if you want council to consider something

872
01:14:10,460 --> 01:14:13,360
for an agenda item, it needs to be a little bit before.

873
01:14:14,060 --> 01:14:15,000
Because I don't know about y'all,

874
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,880
but I can't read an account call and comprehend it.

875
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:20,140
So for me, I don't know if that helps,

876
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,380
that I think that as we grow

877
01:14:22,380 --> 01:14:26,840
And as we implement home role, I hope people forgive us that we are not that small town anymore.

878
01:14:27,060 --> 01:14:28,420
We're going to get five emails.

879
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:34,380
We could get 200 and sitting here reading it and I'm still not comprehending it because I'm a visual person.

880
01:14:35,180 --> 01:14:38,160
I just want to be transparent, but I want to make sure everybody understands.

881
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,440
I want your guarantee participation, but I need you to send it into me in advance.

882
01:14:43,700 --> 01:14:46,280
Where I'm not getting it at the desk.

883
01:14:46,380 --> 01:14:48,040
So that's my position on it.

884
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,760
and I just think we should discuss it and so the public hears and we actually be

885
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:57,200
forward and make sure everybody's aware. So that's why you're welcome to come now.

886
01:14:57,440 --> 01:14:59,960
Yeah, I think Laura's going to be a great job.

887
01:15:00,020 --> 01:15:09,760
What is required? What is not? And I think that the city secretary also does a great job of making sure that everything is shared.

888
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:28,460
The specific item that you referenced, it is my understanding that was an email that went to a specific council member. So I want to be very clear that the city secretary was not in violation of not sharing it with everybody.

889
01:15:28,460 --> 01:15:29,880
And I know that you know that.

890
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:31,960
I know that make you fit clarifying that.

891
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,180
This is S's individual, so it's not on her.

892
01:15:34,380 --> 01:15:36,560
I just want to make sure that absolutely.

893
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:41,660
We will continue to send all communication to all council members.

894
01:15:43,380 --> 01:15:45,820
It's hard for her to send it if she gets it at five o'clock

895
01:15:45,820 --> 01:15:47,580
or six o'clock and we're sitting here.

896
01:15:47,580 --> 01:15:48,400
Oh, we're pro-good lines.

897
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:49,160
Yes.

898
01:15:49,180 --> 01:15:49,920
We're pro-good lines.

899
01:15:50,180 --> 01:15:51,900
Thank you.

900
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:56,080
So I, one of the things that I wanted to do after our discussion

901
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:00,220
after y'all's discussion was just go over what art one says, what state law says and what

902
01:16:00,220 --> 01:16:07,480
our website says. Just to clarify, another text is up a meetings act. We have to allow

903
01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:13,840
public comment before every meeting. We do that. We have the forums that's fine. It does allow

904
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:18,940
for time restrictions, but any restrictions must be content neutral, time place and manner restrictions.

905
01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:25,100
So that means we can say three minutes, but we can't say, if you're not for this, then you can't

906
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,480
So that's one of the issue, that's a big issue.

907
01:16:31,220 --> 01:16:35,100
We have the phone one, the website and we also have a available at the City Council meeting.

908
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,100
And this is the website says that all persons completing submitting,

909
01:16:40,020 --> 01:16:43,300
completing slash submitting a public comment form, whether or not a loudspeak,

910
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,540
may submit written comments or observance to the City Secretary for Inclusion

911
01:16:47,540 --> 01:16:49,360
and the record file copy of the agenda.

912
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,020
So on its face what that means is anyone could bring written comments

913
01:16:54,020 --> 01:16:59,520
a minimum ahead of time, or if they have exhibits, they can give them to the city secretary

914
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:05,080
and then she can add them to the district, basically to the agenda packet, and if they bring

915
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,580
them the day of the meeting, of course the agenda packet is going to be after the agenda packet

916
01:17:08,580 --> 01:17:12,400
is gone out, but if it was before the meeting, it could be added to the agenda packet before

917
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:21,140
them. One thing that I want to emphasize is that any action that the city council takes as far

918
01:17:21,140 --> 01:17:24,400
reading or not reading comments or how they treats them needs to be treated,

919
01:17:24,480 --> 01:17:29,860
every comment needs to be treated the same, but written comments and so just something to keep in mind.

920
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:35,620
This is just the public testimony section, but I just wanted to point out that it's very,

921
01:17:35,980 --> 01:17:43,860
and I know you can't read it that fast and it's, you know, 715, it's 950, but just like we can't

922
01:17:43,860 --> 01:17:48,320
allow some people to speak and other people not to speak, if we're going to, if you want to have

923
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:54,780
practice of reading rate comments out loud, then if you read this, then it leads to the presumption

924
01:17:54,780 --> 01:18:00,520
that all of them should be read out loud. Here's the agenda language. It's pretty clear.

925
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,500
People can come up. They can talk on non agenda items. They can talk on agenda items. It's up

926
01:18:04,500 --> 01:18:10,560
to them. Request they can ask questions ahead of time with the city secretary and her emails

927
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:17,660
on there. As far as public comment before meetings, as Mayor Potem mentioned, there is a section

928
01:18:17,660 --> 01:18:23,080
of the of our code that asks the all documentation we provided to every member of City Council.

929
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:31,660
I think that's a very common requirement in it's something that staff will try to ensure

930
01:18:31,660 --> 01:18:36,280
and then if council members also and then just keep in mind that if you do receive something

931
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:40,900
related to city business, especially in your personal email, that's technically a city record,

932
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:47,890
so please keep that in mind. And then I just wanted to remind everyone when you talk about when

933
01:18:47,890 --> 01:18:53,090
You can get things like as far as public comment, because the legislature changed state laws,

934
01:18:53,330 --> 01:18:57,090
as far as when we have to post our packets and our, well, it's really just when we have

935
01:18:57,090 --> 01:18:59,130
to post our agenda, but we post them simultaneously.

936
01:19:00,250 --> 01:19:07,110
We do have to follow the current chart that's within our code to make sure that we're posting

937
01:19:07,110 --> 01:19:07,770
timely.

938
01:19:07,990 --> 01:19:11,790
And so that's something to keep in mind if you want to set a deadline for written comments.

939
01:19:13,570 --> 01:19:19,330
My recommendation is to adopt a policy regarding how we can come to a big accepted if you want to continue.

940
01:19:19,330 --> 01:19:20,070
It's not required.

941
01:19:20,990 --> 01:19:28,450
We don't have to accept the right comments, but it's just because it's not required, doesn't mean you don't need to do it or you shouldn't do it.

942
01:19:28,970 --> 01:19:35,210
So they should be sent to when the city will need them if they want to be included into an agenda packet.

943
01:19:36,770 --> 01:19:41,490
When they will be printed out and provided to a border commission if you want to do that as well.

944
01:19:41,490 --> 01:19:55,490
And then what happens when there's public comment submissions that are not related to an agenda item if you want to address that as well and then vote if you do adopt such a policy post that policy on the website with each board of commission's website make sure that that's clear on each website.

945
01:19:56,270 --> 01:19:57,490
And I'm available for questions.

946
01:19:58,870 --> 01:19:59,970
If I can say I appreciate it.

947
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:05,240
What you said is on the website now, but the website now has been updated since we have a new city.

948
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:16,060
Some of it has changed because before, what's in our package shows that, and this is the mayor and I got a current patient email from a resident, because it was confusing to them, because the website kept saying,

949
01:20:16,060 --> 01:20:20,920
these Simpson at Liberty Hill right and everybody in the line was gone so it says you can submit

950
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:26,920
comments in person or via email but it was allowing for it and this is a part that I think needs

951
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:31,460
and I think some changes have been made that help it prove it but I think it needs to be as you say

952
01:20:31,460 --> 01:20:37,240
more firm. Can you go back to those list of things if you don't mind and this is just my, my,

953
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:43,500
oh, the, that, I think they, of course they have to be sent to all of us, but if you have to decide

954
01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:50,760
Is it going to the city secretary you're right or is the website going to say if you want to submit something you submit it to all of these councilmen

955
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,920
Are you submit it to a business I do not recommend that

956
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:55,460
Oh, we go to the surface of open meetings

957
01:20:55,460 --> 01:21:00,660
I understand and then she would send it to all of us when they will be included in the agenda packet

958
01:21:00,660 --> 01:21:03,340
If it's a related to an agenda item

959
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,220
The public doesn't know if they are until the packet's published

960
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,660
So that's a challenge there

961
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:13,840
Right, so

962
01:21:14,420 --> 01:21:19,540
Yeah. So when they will be printed out and provided to the board, I'll be honest. I don't

963
01:21:19,540 --> 01:21:25,140
want anything printed out for me here because it's too light. I prefer to have to. Yeah.

964
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:30,180
And what happens to a public comment submissions that are not related to the agenda item?

965
01:21:30,220 --> 01:21:35,020
I guess I just, I don't know. I guess I just get submitted to us all too. But on that one,

966
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:40,920
it's not concerning. My concern is when I'm making a decision on an agenda item that I have

967
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,280
anything and everything that the public wants me to see

968
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,240
for their guaranteed participation and government for me.

969
01:21:47,420 --> 01:21:50,440
That's just me. I would like to see it in email and advance.

970
01:21:50,700 --> 01:21:51,960
I was doing for hours per.

971
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:53,420
At least 20 hours prior.

972
01:21:53,740 --> 01:21:56,180
I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

973
01:21:56,480 --> 01:22:00,500
So if it's staff needs to back that up to give her time to get it.

974
01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:01,620
So it was a new 24 hours.

975
01:22:01,620 --> 01:22:04,480
I'm all fired. Whatever staff needs, I'm all fired.

976
01:22:04,780 --> 01:22:08,680
Yeah. I do agree that we should post it on the website as well.

977
01:22:09,140 --> 01:22:16,300
I think that it will be very easy for us to bring back a recommended policy for y'all to either approve or not approve.

978
01:22:16,980 --> 01:22:19,580
Sweet. Yep. Happy to be able to do it.

979
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:20,540
Sounds great.

980
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:21,420
Do we need to do that?

981
01:22:21,740 --> 01:22:22,420
We'll do it.

982
01:22:22,420 --> 01:22:22,640
We'll do it.

983
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:23,260
We'll do it.

984
01:22:23,700 --> 01:22:29,200
So as far as we've seen all the time, please read this at the next meeting.

985
01:22:31,540 --> 01:22:37,980
What we really do not is up to us, or are we saying anything submitted to the email or printed?

986
01:22:37,980 --> 01:22:42,380
will not be red right if I can tell you didn't know I can tell you didn't

987
01:22:42,380 --> 01:22:46,640
recommend the staff recommended policy it will clearly state that written public

988
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:50,960
comment is not red right I like it so you know we I guess that does we do a

989
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:56,380
question that I yeah that I had on one of them that I read because it did say

990
01:22:56,380 --> 01:23:00,500
please read and I there was a part of me that wanted to respond these were no longer be

991
01:23:00,500 --> 01:23:06,860
read at city council meetings so if somebody sent something to us and we noticed

992
01:23:06,860 --> 01:23:11,880
that we are the only one of two or three council members that are on that email.

993
01:23:12,580 --> 01:23:13,920
Can I not reply to that email?

994
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:18,080
So it is no longer a policy to read public comments during that city council.

995
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:22,480
We would forward back to the city map position as we forward it to the city secretary.

996
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,420
We're she has to forward it.

997
01:23:24,420 --> 01:23:26,340
Because we really wanted to do that for a moment.

998
01:23:26,660 --> 01:23:28,460
You also don't know if they blind copy somebody.

999
01:23:28,700 --> 01:23:29,500
You wouldn't see that.

1000
01:23:31,260 --> 01:23:36,840
The city secretary is always going to protect y'all by handling that communication.

1001
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:43,420
for you. And also make sure everyone gets it. So back to what Diane brought up. If we receive

1002
01:23:43,420 --> 01:23:47,840
something, we don't know if anyone else has been blind copy. That's happened in the multiple times.

1003
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:52,900
I didn't know. And I sent it to the city's secretary. And then, you know, it came out. So then,

1004
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:57,400
yeah, we just needed to do that. Maybe everything to hurt. Okay. So we're playing with that.

1005
01:23:57,420 --> 01:24:01,680
We just have to move on to that. Right. Because because of the past practices, we didn't go back and

1006
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:05,840
say, we're not reading it. And so there's an issue, but now we're clarifying it. Let's just

1007
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:11,300
Alright, item 4D, the discussion consideration of possible action of proving a resolution of

1008
01:24:11,300 --> 01:24:14,980
the city of Liberty Hill, Texas, 2, let's go through the list.

1009
01:24:15,180 --> 01:24:18,920
Determining the cost of certain public improvements to be financed with an improvement area

1010
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:24,400
in a both-three and improvement area in a before the Butler Farm's PID, approving a preliminary

1011
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:29,640
amendment and received service and assessment plan and a proposed improvement area, number

1012
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:35,040
three assessment rule and improvement area in a both-four assessment rule, directing the filing

1013
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:39,480
of such proposals assessment rules with the city secretary to make available for public

1014
01:24:39,480 --> 01:24:45,720
construction and noticing a public hearing, running a little separate, sure, noticing

1015
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:49,740
a public hearing at 4 June 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 26 to consider an ordinance of loving

1016
01:24:49,740 --> 01:24:54,600
assessments on improvement area number three and improvement area number four of the

1017
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:59,100
reforms and improvement district and other matters related there too and directing city

1018
01:24:59,100 --> 01:24:59,980
staff to publish.

1019
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:05,580
May all notice as said, public hearing, and resauding in a matter of incident, and related dirty, and providing

1020
01:25:05,580 --> 01:25:11,180
ineffective dates. We were very so far now. We already have a way through it. I was already just in a

1021
01:25:11,180 --> 01:25:16,860
go for it all. You're there. Help you with a video of simple explanation and we move on. So, I could be

1022
01:25:16,860 --> 01:25:21,600
an American council. This item for you is a resolution for public hearing for the other farms pit. So,

1023
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:29,980
the other farms, public improvement district is the area of other farms and the west side of the

1024
01:25:29,980 --> 01:25:33,980
they're gonna give a presentation on kind of what is all involved in this.

1025
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:38,060
I don't give you an idea that PID has an X amount of, you know, it's sort of been authorized by Council previously.

1026
01:25:38,340 --> 01:25:42,540
This is another phase of their development that's part of the PID that's already been authorized.

1027
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,020
But this is to authorize the issue of those bonds.

1028
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:48,500
So I will turn it over to the developer.

1029
01:25:48,700 --> 01:25:51,720
They have a presentation to kind of give you an update on where their development is.

1030
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:55,300
And I'll turn it over to them for them to be able to give you kind of an update.

1031
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:03,920
Now, Mr. Council, my name is Bob White,

1032
01:26:03,940 --> 01:26:05,920
so I'm a developer of other farms.

1033
01:26:06,580 --> 01:26:09,640
We appreciate your time to address this as you're not in the night.

1034
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:13,960
I also want to thank the staff for being respectful, courteous,

1035
01:26:14,140 --> 01:26:15,780
and dealing with it through this process.

1036
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:20,020
In other issues that we dealt with at the first of the year.

1037
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:22,620
Thank you, so although that requires them where we're with DPF-G,

1038
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:26,320
the presentation, that we'll both answer questions when we're finished.

1039
01:26:28,990 --> 01:26:29,830
Thank you.

1040
01:26:30,050 --> 01:26:31,970
Good afternoon. Good evening, Mayor Council.

1041
01:26:31,970 --> 01:26:32,990
I'm a public.

1042
01:26:33,570 --> 01:26:34,630
My name is Recrose Berg.

1043
01:26:34,810 --> 01:26:36,790
I'm the managing principal for D.P. F.F.

1044
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:39,990
for the consultant to the developer for the Butler Farm's PID.

1045
01:26:40,690 --> 01:26:44,010
We're here to talk about the process of

1046
01:26:44,010 --> 01:26:47,150
living assessments under remaining two phases of the project

1047
01:26:47,150 --> 01:26:49,810
in proven area three and four.

1048
01:26:50,770 --> 01:26:53,330
Everyone I think knows about what farms is.

1049
01:26:53,510 --> 01:26:54,750
But here's a map.

1050
01:26:55,790 --> 01:26:59,650
The PID is an existing PID that was created in 2018.

1051
01:26:59,650 --> 01:27:04,170
The original service in the session plan, which is the document that levies the assessments.

1052
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:09,470
It operates the district was created in 2021 by your PIDA administrator.

1053
01:27:10,210 --> 01:27:18,730
In 2021 at the same time, the initial bombs and assessments for the major preliminary and the first two phases of the project were levied.

1054
01:27:19,290 --> 01:27:25,650
Each year, some certain accordance with state statute that the service plan has been updated and has been written as an outcurrent.

1055
01:27:27,130 --> 01:27:29,410
Here's some pretty pictures of the community.

1056
01:27:29,690 --> 01:27:31,270
We always like to include those.

1057
01:27:32,630 --> 01:27:37,850
The property has pool, project playground, park, hiking, bike trails, and picnic area.

1058
01:27:38,630 --> 01:27:41,070
Bob can answer any questions about the project itself.

1059
01:27:42,690 --> 01:27:45,830
The initial and proven area through that we're asking to discuss tonight

1060
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:50,190
are the outline and black these four phases of the project.

1061
01:27:51,350 --> 01:27:54,690
This will involve 514 total lots

1062
01:27:54,690 --> 01:28:03,190
three different sizes with average cell prices listed here between 353,455,000.

1063
01:28:03,610 --> 01:28:07,150
They are built in contracts for each of the all-all-all-all.

1064
01:28:09,470 --> 01:28:12,730
In primary four is small. It's called Phase 10.

1065
01:28:12,810 --> 01:28:15,090
The smart portion on the southern part of the property.

1066
01:28:15,910 --> 01:28:21,130
It is 26 lots of 64 lots of 180,000 average cell price.

1067
01:28:21,690 --> 01:28:27,870
We were working. So, the development of these phases is projected to add additional

1068
01:28:27,870 --> 01:28:33,150
assess value of over $229 million dollars to the tax force for the city of Liberty Hill.

1069
01:28:33,370 --> 01:28:38,910
Just to remind you that the pit assessments that we are discussing tonight are only the responsibility

1070
01:28:38,910 --> 01:28:44,010
of the property owner. The Alberta's time, the billboards, and then whoever are the hunt buyers.

1071
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:49,590
Nobody else in the city of Liberty Hill has any obligation or the city has an obligation for these assessments.

1072
01:28:52,210 --> 01:28:59,570
In terms of additional tax revenues, we are projecting that upon build out more of a small

1073
01:28:59,570 --> 01:29:03,810
charge that exists on the bottom of the farm's budget, the city will generate for these

1074
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:09,610
two additional phases, $750,000,000 a year of additional tax revenue, the school district will

1075
01:29:09,610 --> 01:29:12,690
generate over $2.8 million additional tax revenue.

1076
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:18,180
Here's how, this is the summary of the assessments.

1077
01:29:18,180 --> 01:29:24,460
The assessments are laid out here and closed the initial bond, the major improvement bond that was issued in 2021.

1078
01:29:25,180 --> 01:29:37,560
The additional assessment that's being asked for at this time included in the total assessment of 20,140,000 is 12,350,000 for the new assessment.

1079
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:45,420
And then for the $1,175 for the Phase 4, there is $750,000, I think a metal assessment

1080
01:29:45,420 --> 01:29:46,960
included within there.

1081
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:57,680
The $1,000 on average will pay between $2,028 for the small slots to $2,767 to the biggest

1082
01:29:57,680 --> 01:29:59,980
box. The equivalent.

1083
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:08,280
Government tax rates that are shown on the right-hand column ranging about 58 cents are similar to what

1084
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:12,540
exists on the original and proven areas we wanted to. The home prices are different by the

1085
01:30:12,540 --> 01:30:19,420
equivalent of payment obligations relatively for each homeowner will be the same. And we're

1086
01:30:19,420 --> 01:30:24,380
here to answer any questions. Your pitted administrators here, your barn councils here, and

1087
01:30:24,380 --> 01:30:28,800
they can talk about the various documents, but we appreciate everyone's help getting to this point.

1088
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:33,240
And everyone doesn't agree, but I don't know all the documents that are before you tonight.

1089
01:30:33,580 --> 01:30:34,940
I'm happy to answer any questions.

1090
01:30:39,980 --> 01:30:42,600
There isn't actually a lot of firearms though, correct?

1091
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:43,920
Not yet.

1092
01:30:44,740 --> 01:30:47,120
Not yet, right?

1093
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:48,860
It's definitely a part of the plan.

1094
01:30:49,860 --> 01:30:51,380
That's right.

1095
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:58,360
So the police submitted the city,

1096
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:00,180
wait and on a permit. Got it.

1097
01:31:02,380 --> 01:31:03,620
I'm glad I didn't say that.

1098
01:31:06,230 --> 01:31:06,550
Okay.

1099
01:31:11,210 --> 01:31:11,290
Great.

1100
01:31:11,290 --> 01:31:24,070
Okay, so on this item, questions on the item, okay, no, all right, there

1101
01:31:28,330 --> 01:31:38,030
I hope to approve the resolution related developer funds paid as presented in notice the public hearing date for June 24, 2021

1102
01:31:44,910 --> 01:31:46,370
Thank you, gentlemen.

1103
01:31:49,850 --> 01:31:50,010
All right.

1104
01:31:50,190 --> 01:31:55,430
With that, we are going to convene into executive session.

1105
01:31:56,210 --> 01:31:57,690
There are no bathroom breaks for council.

1106
01:31:57,690 --> 01:31:58,290
Okay.

1107
01:32:01,050 --> 01:32:01,470
All right.

1108
01:32:02,490 --> 01:32:07,070
So, um, we're going to take this code at section 5, 5, 1, 0, 7, 1, consultation with

1109
01:32:07,070 --> 01:32:07,510
the attorney.

1110
01:32:07,890 --> 01:32:11,750
So, the council shall convene and to close executive session to speak the advice of legal

1111
01:32:11,750 --> 01:32:13,930
council regarding pending and potential litigation.

1112
01:32:14,490 --> 01:32:16,090
That is at 7, 34.

1113
01:32:31,130 --> 01:32:31,310
Okay.

1114
01:32:31,630 --> 01:32:32,430
Oh, I don't think it is.

1115
01:32:32,530 --> 01:32:33,330
It's eight o'clock.

1116
01:32:33,870 --> 01:32:36,210
So, the council is now back in open session.

1117
01:32:36,430 --> 01:32:39,310
Is there any action to be taken regarding items discussed in the executive session?

1118
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:41,780
Right.

1119
01:32:42,900 --> 01:32:43,380
So,

1120
01:32:47,970 --> 01:32:52,270
for the best of us to push this dance to the best feeling of the turned ad in the book.