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Good evening. I would like to call the Budget Committee meeting of November 5th, 2025 to order. Good evening. Good evening everyone. My name is Adam Russell, Councilor and Chair of the Budget Committee. I would like to begin by reading a safety notice. In the event of emergency, please evacuate council chambers. We do have a lot of fans here tonight. So please go out to a single file. To the nearest exit through the chamber doors and obey all instructions given if assistance is required. Please see.

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Once you evacuate the building, please gather in the front parking lot outside of town hall. Also, please ensure your cell phones are all silent or are turned off.

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And lastly, the Town of Lincoln Council meetings are posted on our YouTube channel. Close captioning is available on all videos by selecting a closed captioning button on the bottom right of the video.

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I roll call members of committee are in attendance and we also have staff in attendance. Decorations of interest are the ring decorations of interest.

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Seeing none, we have no statutory public meetings, we have no delegations, and we have no consent agenda items.

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So we are now moving on to a regular agenda and we are now considering item 7.1 report fn-12-25.

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2026 budget staff will be presenting the draft 2026 capital budget for committee's consideration under the strong mayor budget process.

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The mayor is going to provide some introductory comments. Follow by our CAO. May you rest in. Please go ahead.

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Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Good evening council members and staff members of the public who are who are viewing.

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Thank you very much for joining us as we begin our 2025 budget deliberations.

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This is our first budget under the new strong mayor of legislation.

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And while the tools available to us may have changed the priorities and values that guide our decisions have not.

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And I instructed staff to begin the budget process using the same methodology that they have used for the last 11 years.

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And to continue in the same manner as I believe that what we have been doing.

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Mostly presents information and priorities according to our mission vision and values as well as strategic priorities and the work plan that has been developed for us.

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This is a process that involves council but it also involves stakeholders throughout Lincoln and beyond as there are many people that do business with and in our community.

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And so everyone has a stake in what is going to be discussed here this evening and any other meetings following it.

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The budget recognizes the financial pressures that many residents and businesses continue to face and it reflects our commitments to being responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars.

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At the same time it invests strategically in both our immediate needs and our long-term priorities as a growing community.

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Tonight you will hear from members of the senior leadership team as they walk us through the key components of the budget with a particular focus on the capital program.

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We are approaching this budget with the same principles of transparency, planning and accountability that have guided council in previous years even as the governance framework evolves.

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There is an amending formula that is available to council and the amending formula is the council's opportunity to make any changes that they believe are necessary.

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And based on the interpretation, their interpretation of the public priorities which have been laid out quite well not only in this presentation this evening which came from a formal question error but also from all the other comments and commentary that come to each and every member of council throughout the year so it's not just a focus on a few months in the fall of the year.

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And I must say that I was quite pleased to see the number of participants but also the very, very clear effort that people have put into grouping priorities and and to being very clear about what those are so that that is this council to a great very get great extent.

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So while the amending formulas allow council the opportunity to have a second look from what they have been given by the staff, they will also have to take into account the impact of any changes that are made because the community is accustomed to a certain level of standard.

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And so any impact will have to be discussed in terms of how it may change the timing or the lack of timing when services are delivered.

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You will hear specifically about areas such as fire services, community engagement, critical capital infrastructure as those areas have specifically been broken out.

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These areas and all capital investments ensure that we can continue to deliver safe, reliable and high quality services while preparing for the future.

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I want to thank staff for the work that has gone into preparing this budget.

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And I look forward to the discussions ahead as we continue working together to build a strong affordable and sustainable Lincoln. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.

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Thank you Mayor Easton and I believe our CAO has in the comments as well.

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Thank you Mr. Chair and good evening Madam Mayor chair Russell, Vice Chair Rimer and members of council as we kick off this year's budget process.

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And I feel like I say this to you every year but budget is your round work. It isn't something we just deal with at the end of each year.

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And it is critical in terms of how we set priorities managed resources responsibly and ensure that financial sustainability of our municipality remains at the forefront.

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The decisions we make here will have direct and important impacts.

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We're discussing capital tonight as you've seen our budget and the budget information that you've received today will include a lot of the operating conversations.

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And we're going to talk about other things tonight. We're going to talk about fire services and some of the drivers there. We're going to talk a little bit about engagement.

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And we're going to talk about how we look at all of that moving forward.

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There are a number of large scale issues that we're all dealing with and that people are dealing with and many not in our control and we don't lose sight of that.

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I know council doesn't lose sight of that but they are things that we're cognizant of and aware of as you've heard.

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The process has changed a bit. The timelines are condensed. We're looking at things this year differently, but the one thing that hasn't changed is that we're going to work closely with council.

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We're going to attempt to answer any questions both during the meetings after the meetings and before the subsequent meetings.

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And ensure that we communicate information and decisions clearly openly and a timely manner.

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As you've heard from the mayor tonight, you're going to hear from a number of us.

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I'll be presenting the engagement information to you. Director Graham will be talking a little bit about our capital program.

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Fire Chief Greg Hudson is going to take you into some of the drivers in terms of the fire budget.

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And of course, CLT is here to answer any particular questions that council may have.

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So as we do every year, I encourage council to approach the process thoughtfully collaboratively.

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And it is our goal, as I've said before, to ensure that every dollar allocated supports council priorities, addresses the community priorities you're going to hear about shortly.

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And also reflects the responsible stewardship of public resources. So look forward to getting into the details, Mr. Chair.

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And I'll turn it over to you again.

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Thank you, Mr. CAO.

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The Director Finance Treasure will begin the presentation.

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For the first half of the presentation, after each presenter, we will stop for a Q&A period before continuing on to the next section.

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We will then have a short recess before the second half of the presentation.

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Just a reminder for all council.

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If you are referencing capital projects within any of your questions, please use the binder and make sure you illustrate or mention the page number.

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It's on and also the project number when you're asking your questions.

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So everybody's working on the same information.

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Director Tuna Kitis, please go ahead.

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Thank you, Chair.

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Well, I'm thankful to be here tonight to present to you the first meeting of the 2026 budget.

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What will we be discussing today?

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We'll do a reminder of the budget process for 2026 review the budget engagement results.

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And then we'll go through the 2026 capital budget overview including the renewal programs in each area of the budget.

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And then finally we'll talk about asset management, asset management plan and the infrastructure gap.

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And then finally we'll just do a recap on the budget schedule.

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So as a reminder, where are we in the process?

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On October 28th, the mayor started the budget process.

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When the agenda was published online, the budget became public information.

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And we are now in the budget deliberation period.

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During this time, councilors may propose amendments to the budget from October 28th to November 24th.

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To streamline the process, the meeting tonight will focus on capital and then the November 12th meeting next week will focus on operating.

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Amendments can be proposed on November 5th, November 12th or November 24th if applicable.

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So by that we mean, if you have amendments that you wish to propose about the capital budget, that can still come forward at next week's meeting.

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Just in case there are questions about that tonight, because you may get more information tonight that may lead you down that road.

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If there are no additional amendments received for the November 24th meeting by November 14th, the November 24th meeting will be canceled.

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So if staff have no indication that there are any further amendments coming forward, we'll look at everything that's coming at that point in time and then the clerk will go through that and make that determination.

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The staff have provided a budget amendment request form template and those amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk and each amendment will be considered individually.

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So as a recap tonight, we'll talk about the budget survey and engagement results, the capital presentation and other incillary information which for this evening is particularly a presentation from a fire chief.

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On the November 12th meeting, we will go over the operating presentation and the library presentation and we have requested the amendment forms for that meeting by November 7th.

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So this Friday to give us time to review from calculations, provide comment and process those forms and then the November 24th budget amendment meeting if required.

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We would just review the amendments and if there are no amendments, the meeting would be canceled.

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Again, we're requesting those forms by November 14th because that's the time when it will a determination will be made if that meeting is necessary.

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If there are no amendments, the budget would be deemed adopted after November 24th.

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So after that agreed upon deliberation period, which is legislated but council agreed to shorten by a couple of days, that's when the budget would be deemed adopted.

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After that time if there are amendments on December 2nd could potentially be a mayoral veto.

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If there are amendments and if the mayor vetoes an amendment, which we do not know whether either one of those things will happen, the veto would be provided in writing with reasons to the clerk and council.

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If there are no vetoes, so meaning if there are amendments that come forward and they are not vetoed, then the budget would be deemed adopted after December 2nd.

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So at each stage in the process, it's deemed adopted if that timeline lapses and there's nothing else that leads it to the next step of the process.

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If the mayor, if there are amendments which are vetoed by the mayor, then on December 15th council meeting, that's when council could vote on whether to override the veto with a vote of two thirds of council.

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If the process has progressed to an override vote, the budget would be deemed adopted after December 5th either as amended or not.

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Throughout that process, if there are amendments there could be a combination of outcomes, depending whether the amendments pass, whether they are vetoed and whether the vetoes are overwritten.

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So with that, this is the overview of our timeline and we've placed a red circle where we're at today on November 5th, where at the capital budget meeting and we're pretty much right at the start of all the budget deliberation meetings.

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So at this time, I'll turn it back over to the chair if there are any questions on this portion.

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The presentation. Thank you, Director Tuna Curtis. Any questions from Council?

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Oh, we've got Council to make a look up first. Go ahead.

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Hey there. Thank you, Chair Russell, through you to Charlotte. Just a question about ratification.

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And I'm reading the word adoptive adoption. But I'm not seeing ratification. So what's council's role like it?

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At some point there must be a bylaw that's approved or not approved by council.

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I think it's a tax levy increase. There would be a tax levy increase amount bylaw that we would have to approve. Is that still applicable?

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And one of that occur. Okay. I guess two questions for one.

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So through you chair to the councilor. So that is a key change of the strong marijuana legislation. It's something that we've been reviewing even in some of the professional webinars that I've been attending.

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The wording now is no longer approval. It's adopted. So there isn't a vote of approval.

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And I see the clerk looking at me. I'm sure she will step in if I say anything. But we've both been to our fair share of webinars at this point in time.

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There is no longer a vote of approval. It's just when that time period lapses. It's deemed adopted at that point in time.

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So if there are no amendments, it's deemed adopted as provided by the mayor.

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If there are amendments and she does not veto, it's deemed adopted as amended and so on.

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We would still need a levy bylaw. And that usually happens not until early next year when we have the region rates.

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And we have the school board rates and all of those things, but the budget process itself. It just kind of goes through those timelines and then when they finish, it's deemed to be an adopted budget.

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Okay, so just to clarify. So theoretically, if a counselor was not in favor of the levy increase, they could vote against that levy increase at that time.

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When you have the sum of all expenses and sum of all estimations and the sum of all everything, theoretically, there's still an opportunity for a council member to vote against that levy increase.

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So through you chair, if it's okay, I would turn it over to the clerk on that procedural matter because that's a little bit hard to understand how that would process if we followed those procedures, but that's not one I can answer on my own.

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So I would say that Charlotte has explained the budget process perfectly in terms of the bylaw itself.

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That would be something that if I'm understanding correctly, like you could put through a vote, if it fails, I believe the American have a say in that matter, but essentially, I mean,

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the budget is adopted as presented, that's how it's going to play out in terms of the levy bylaw.

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My understanding is that council would have a vote like they always do, that doesn't change, but I don't know.

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I really, I don't know, this is our first time, but to my understanding that the mayor would have a say in that.

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So just the point of clarification, is that something that we can come back to council with at the next meeting and just clarify?

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We can, I'm, I would say that, yeah, I don't have an answer for that at this time.

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It'll be interesting, but I do believe that the vote is still the vote in terms of the bylaw.

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Mr. CAO has a comment.

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Three of you, Mr. Chair, maybe I'll add one piece just to kind of clarify for anybody who's watching and even for members of council, as you heard from both our treasurer and the clerk, there's three parts to that.

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There's the education portion, the regional portion, and maybe I'll highlight those two, you don't have a say on those two.

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What the region does, what the education, what the province does through the education level, you also don't have a say on.

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So to suggest maybe not voting for those, I think, well, it may be a symbolic gesture.

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I don't think you're able to actually do that.

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So in the levying bylaw comes together to approve all three.

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Again, you may want to make a symbolic gesture, but I don't think it actually holds, you know, it holds merit.

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We can definitely try to get an interpretation on that for you and make sure council has it.

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But your opportunity to either put an amendment forward to voice, displeasure, or anything otherwise happens with the process that we've outlined to you with respect to the one that we're in control of.

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As council has heard me say many, many times, but a third of our third of the budget, third of what you're going to approve there is ours.

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The other two thirds falls between the other two levels.

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So again, I think it can be a symbolic gesture, but I don't actually think it holds ground and is legally binding, but that's one of those things we can get back to you between now and our next meeting.

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Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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As I said, I just I'm curious, like, how that process or how that procedure works, as far as council's role or council's ability to.

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Vote and I think that yeah, like as I mentioned, I think there's a bylaw living bylaw that has to be approved and.

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It's it's yes, no or abstain. So I don't know how other municipalities, if it's ever come up before or if it's ever been an issue, but.

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You know, I'm not saying we're going to be the first, but I like to know the questions to answers before the, you know, you cross the bridges. Thank you.

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Yeah, no, it was a good question. Again, we are going through this for the first time on our side. So we are going to be learning all the machinations of what the requirements are.

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But again, if there is a clarification that staff can bring back for the next meeting, they can otherwise that we will move forward as a as planned council timers your next.

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Thank you, Chair, through you to Ms. Tuna Curtis.

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So I asked this question before, but I just want to have a little bit of clarity.

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So when someone wants to put an amendment in so tonight there are no amendments because we're just having a first look, but at the next meeting if there are amendments.

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And maybe this is for Madam Clerk as well, would they be included in the agenda for the next meeting so that all of council sees what the amendments are.

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I think I've asked this, I just want to clarify it.

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Good afternoon, guys.

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I'll start and through you chair and if the clerk would like to jump in, she can.

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So yes, this is part of why we've asked for the amendments to be provided to us by the Friday before, so that staff have time to calculate.

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Provide any operational comments on the impact of that and then the intention is to publish them on the agenda and ensure that all of council has them.

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So that is part of the reason why we propose the the process like that.

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I'm not sure if the clerk wants to add, no, she's shaking.

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That's okay.

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That's clear. I just wanted to be sure and so no amendments can just be put on the table at the meeting.

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These amendments must be put in writing on the form prior.

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So we're not going to be accepting any fly amendments.

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Madam Clerk, you have a comment?

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Through you chair to the Councillor.

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So as we presented previously, the reason why we've asked council to kind of follow this structured process in terms of providing those amendments earlier is so that the justification that is for those amendments.

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We can come prepared to council and explain that if council chooses to put forward amendments at this table.

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I cannot guarantee council that you will have those answers or that break down of information on how that does affect the budget going forward.

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It's in council's best interest to do those ahead of times in order to ensure that the public as well as council are making informed decisions and the public is also informed of what that looks like in terms of the budget process.

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So sure that don't know if you want to add anything else to that.

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That's that's very clear and I'm quite happy with that with that new process, so thank you very much.

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Thank you chair.

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Okay, thanks Councillor Timbers.

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I see no other questions back to Councillor Timnikitis for part two.

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Director Tunikitis for the next portion.

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Thank you chair.

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So at this time, I'm going to turn this over to our CAO and he is going to provide some commentary.

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On the 2026 budget engagement and so I'll turn it over to you sir.

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Thank you, Charlotte and three of us chair to members of council.

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I will be taking you through our 2026 budget engagement.

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It is an opportunity for us to look at some of the information that's come through.

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By no means is I think as I said to you in my opening comments the engagement that we receive here the only engagement we get we do get engagement year around.

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And I think we can all agree that that's an opportunity for us to hear priorities.

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It's an opportunity for us to take that information in and then using other data sets that we have come to you with information relative to this budget.

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I recognize though that engagement results such as survey data often do attract criticism.

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We've heard it around this very table.

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It did enough people weigh in.

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What do people think were the questions written right?

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I've probably been doing this here for 10 years and the previous 15 before that heard all sorts of levels of criticism.

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We often look at how many people weigh into our budget survey.

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Determine is that statistically correct?

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Is it not?

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What does it mean?

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How do we get more people?

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I share that I think to say to you that again you've heard me say it before it is a snapshot.

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It's one tool that we have.

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I can say we had over 100 residents at the most recent word meeting.

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That's engagement too.

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People talk to us about all sorts of issues in terms of what matters to them.

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So a survey as a snapshot today we received information from our partners at the chamber representing over 280 businesses.

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That in and of itself is also a level of engagement.

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So while survey results are maybe not what all council oftentimes likes to see in terms of thousands and thousands of people weighing in and what they think about budget.

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It is again a snapshot that I'm going to take you through.

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So we do have a dedicated page on speak up Lincoln relative to this budget as we've had in the past.

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We do share key updates and key dates on there.

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We put up budget presentations.

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We share infographics.

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It does also have as it highlights here information from previous years budget.

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Page visits this year.

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So a little bit of data in terms of what we saw.

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We did see an increase of about 17% in terms of how many people visited it.

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Now visiting it doesn't mean people took the survey.

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It just means we had over a thousand people look at it.

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Maybe to get some information.

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Maybe to see some dates.

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We also saw people open videos.

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Look at the documents.

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And just as I said read the information that's on the page.

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We did look at a little bit of an engagement strategy that was enhanced from previous years.

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It ran from August to the beginning of October.

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And not only did it have the survey as we've done in years past.

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But we also had a budget prioritization tool.

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Hearing what council said last year.

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We wanted to try something a little bit different.

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We did have hard copy surveys available throughout Lincoln facilities.

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Because again as we hear at word meetings and otherwise people get information in different ways.

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We also did some in-person engagement.

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We had postcards for councilors to hand out when you were at various events.

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And we also had our director and other staff at Flingoff King on September 27th.

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Handing out and talking to people and trying to get them to talk about budget.

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If you did share with me today that not everybody who comes up to the booth wanted to talk budget.

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Some people just wanted to know everything from where they get a driver's license to a whole bunch of other things.

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And those are the same things we get when people walk into our building.

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Not everybody understands government the way we do.

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Not everybody understands or is open to sharing kind of what they think on a bunch of fronts.

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A lot of people want to talk about services.

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If you ask someone do you pay too much in taxes, usually get an answer like yes.

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I'd like to pay less in taxes.

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So it was an interesting exercise in terms of that in-person engagement.

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And we did see a spike in visits following that at least on the following two days.

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In terms of promotion we often get asked if we promote it.

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Did we encourage people to take part.

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Here's a list of all the things we did do.

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As I said we did a bit of a digital media campaign this year which was new.

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We used social media, we used monitors in town facilities, QR codes,

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bill-inserts, community newsletters, print media and so forth.

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In terms of participation.

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As you can see here 211 participants between the budget prioritization tool, the survey and the comment for.

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Some information in terms of the past three budgets, in terms of responses.

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And again, typical as you've seen in the past members of council in terms of the breakdown on where people are coming from that fill out our survey.

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The majority are respondents from Beamsville followed by violent and violent station.

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And then lastly at around 10% from Jordan and Jordan station.

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Budget survey, satisfaction.

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And priorities. Do you receive value for your tax dollar? Generally speaking, when we talk about service, when we talk about value, and those two things really are synonymous with one another, little over three quarters of people at a positive response.

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Where would you like to see investments made? As you can see there, the top five responses probably align very much to what you see in the capital program.

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Public works and public and open spaces, which includes our parks.

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We often hear that when we're talking to residents or at public meetings, when we're at ward meetings. Obviously infrastructure.

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I wish I could tell you, or had a dollar for every time someone said, you know, do more roads, pave my road.

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Obviously something we hear a lot about in terms of infrastructure and capital costs.

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If I ask you service, again, you're going to hear a little bit more about that this evening, planning and municipal law enforcement.

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Again, when we talk about municipal law enforcement, you know, surprise the members of council, everyone would love to see a lot more of those sorts of things.

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And lastly, a focus on tourism, culture, communications and economic development.

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The council had a chance to read the letter that came in today. Again, from our partners at the chamber, it did speak to jobs.

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It spoke to retention of businesses. It spoke to supports for businesses, which again, I think, aligns very much to where it falls in terms of the top five.

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Which council priorities should be addressed in terms of the 2020 six by six.

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You can see there are the top four responses and a lot of ways aligned to the top five in terms of where investments are being made and where we should see investments.

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And so safe, healthy and environmentally responsible community, investing in our parks, transportation.

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Responsible financial management and collaboration with other levels of government and forced the fourth one there engage in inclusivity and transparency.

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We also included a question similar to one from last year's budget survey that talked about if you were going to contribute an extra $50 to help in to help enhance a program or service that was meaningful to you.

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Are you in favor of that option or not in favor of that option, 73% of people answered that, 27% chose to skip it.

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For those who replied, the top three services that they would like to see continued investment in our as follows there.

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Again, very much aligning to what we're hearing to what you're seeing in this capital program, public works, which is really our roads, public and open spaces, which is our parks.

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Fire rescue service and generally infrastructure and more capital.

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In terms of our budget prioritization tool, you see a couple of photos there on the right side of the screen in terms of how we allowed people and we gave them hypotheticals how they would like to see their money spent.

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So chance for us to look at and to give people maybe a little bit more of a tool where they could take some control.

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So we gave them a hypothetical $100 budget and then participants allocated dollars to various service areas.

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There were minimums and maximums that were predetermined with set increments and no area could be allocated a zero dollar.

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115 contributions to this exercise were made with the average spend being less than the $100 they were given at little over 93 dollars.

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A minimum spend we saw of 64 or people dial back and wanted to do less work with a maximum spend of the entire 100 they were given.

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Again, probably no surprise when you look at the top five service areas that people funded using this tool, fire and rescue service, the library, community services, infrastructure and capital, and the top five being rounded out by the BDSSI.

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There's always comment forms available on our on our cheats on our engagement 26 comments of the 200 change that had an opportunity to do so we're provided so not a lot.

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And several key themes emerged are two allowed us to kind of highlight what some of those key themes were.

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So we heard obviously on both ends of that spectrum we hear things like, you know, invest more money in libraries, we love libraries too.

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We hate you and a whole bunch of other things and that is sometimes the anonymity that comes with these types of tools and so no I'm not sharing with you that type of information.

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I'm sharing with you are the themes that came out obviously affordability being the largest and darkest is the one that came out, but some other interesting ones for us Jordan Lions pool.

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Also a large font here which I think speaks to where people put some other priorities the library as well followed by again you can see the various words their low rise development diversify the economy infrastructure public safety support businesses farm farm came out a lot and municipal law enforcement.

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So open a question, comments any clarity council may have obviously Paul and the Liana who are much more hands on and this are here to answer any questions you may have, but I can also attempt to do that as well.

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Thank you, Mr. Sayo, I want to open up to a question council. I have council for today first in the hopper.

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Thank you chair Russell, so Mr. CEO, just just a couple very quick high level comments and like there's nothing there's no hidden gun here.

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So on one of the slides early in your presentation you showed beamsville at 66% and then you showed violent violent station Jordan and Jordan station.

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I didn't see any reference that came to an intern.

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I was just wondering does that mean that no one from came to an intern comment or was it put into another category.

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Thank you Councillor and through you chair to the Councillor. We might have just had a very small percentage of Camden I think we might have not just presented it in the presentation.

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But we did we did have representation from across across the community.

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Okay.

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Thank you. Just a follow up question on the slides Mr. CEO.

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So I was happy to see the increase in the amount of visitors. I think it was 1,400 visitors up I think 17%. So that was great.

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I'm just wondering when we look out how did we capture those comments because I think there's some great wording up there from affordability to we don't like you.

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But the 26 I'm just concerned about why is it 26 we got 1,400 people touching our website which is great.

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But how did we go to look at ascertaining comments.

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So through you Mr. Chair to the Councillor. Definitely let Lilliana chime and I know I fill out a number of surveys on my mask to do some of my voluntarily do.

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You know I think often it's easier to kind of check off a box than it is to take the time. Sometimes the analytical time it takes the right of response.

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And to write one that's fruitful one that talks about affordability or one that talks about here's what I think about the Jordan Lions pool.

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And so you know I think it's often one of those things that we don't always expect residents to spend time to add the anecdotal piece to it one that we would love to see more of.

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But at the end of the day 26 is what we've got we've tried to encourage that dialogue more.

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But as to why maybe Lilliana can chime in but I you know I would say I think again being one that fills out a lot of surveys.

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I don't often spend a ton of time on the anecdotal piece. I really fill out the survey in terms of what questions are asked for me because people are challenged with time.

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The surveys already take 15 to 20 minutes.

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And unless you're really engaged in budget and if I think about the word to meeting how many times you encounter picture you've tried to progress.

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It's even ask a question around budget at that particular meeting. I look at Councillor Russell our chair nodding same thing people often.

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It is in an immediate focus versus something else that we engage with them on but definitely something that we can continue to try to ascertain and pull out but Lilliana may have some additional comments.

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Thank you through you chair to the Councillor. What we did this year with the engagement tools and the CAOs spoke to it early on in the section of the presentation.

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We sectioned out the different engagement tools so whereas in previous years we had a very quite lengthy survey we looked at ways to chunk that out so that there were a few different tools.

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People could come in they were kind of shorter more bite sized engagement opportunities so people could you know they wouldn't get caught up in a really long survey.

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That was some of the feedback that we heard in previous years.

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So the comment form was actually separated out from the survey. In previous years we would have comments as part of the survey so we would have like an open-ended question.

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People could provide comments on what else they wanted to see as part of the budget. This year we just brought that out as a separate tool.

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So in previous years we wouldn't necessarily have comments or that those qualitative answers included like those were optional.

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They were optional questions and we would not have everyone who participated in the survey answering that question.

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So that's why you're going to see that the number of comments is lower than the participation in the survey or the prioritization tool.

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Also that the word cluster represents some of the key themes and you see like some of the words we're a little bit bigger than others and that's where the themes were represented over several comments.

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Yeah that's great. I appreciate those comments. I just you know the only reason I bring it up is you know I think we can all agree that we want to continue to improve.

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And it's great that we're celebrating you know the number of visitors to our site and it's up 17 percent.

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But I mean that could be Councillor Meckler jumping on our site a thousand times. So I you know I don't I'm just saying I would rather see comments that are are you know that have substance as I go into budget.

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And when I look up there and I see the word affordability in bold that sends me a message. Thank you chair.

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Thank you Councillor Bernay. Councilor Gemma you are up next.

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Thank you chair. Russell my question about the fact that 66% of the respondents were from beams fell.

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So is that just strictly because of a higher population density or is there other considerations that go into those percentages.

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I mean all again I'll take a stab at the answer I think you're absolutely correct Councillor. Part of it is population based but part of it is just how people engage.

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I would say in beamsville there are probably more people apt to use if you look at the demographics if you look at a number of other factors are probably apt to use technology.

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Social media get their information electronically and would engage in that type of survey. Yes we've made it available in all of our facilities for those that wanted to fill out a hard copy.

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But I think most of it's simply based on the fact that that's where our population is and oftentimes historically we've seen a little bit more engagement from the beamsville area.

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I can tell you though that if you ask me where people like to engage the most face the face I'd probably tell you it's on the east end of town.

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Some of the most spirited conversations I have with people on budget and other issues come from our Jordan and violent parts of the community and so I think it's just the way in which people engage the way in which people receive information.

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And like I said the survey is a snapshot. The survey is one tool not the only tool that we're using.

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Thank you.

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Thank you Councillor Gema. We have Councillor Maria next.

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Thank you very much. I think this is probably going to go to the communications department.

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I'm really excited to see that it's a 17% increase in page visits which is great.

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We've heard a lot over the last year about communications and the challenges around communications and people feeling that you know they're not hearing what's going on.

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So it's great to see that there's an increase in engagement.

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I have a couple of questions. One of them would be, what do you think is driving that increase? What tools do we use this year that drove a 17?

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Like are we thinking it's the postcards that we sent or what that was.

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I'll let you answer that one first before I go to my next question.

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Through your chair to the Councillor. So it was definitely Charlotte being at Fling off King.

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But I think it was a multitude of reasons really. It was that first in person in person touch that we had.

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It was the print that we had. It was the postcards. It was the digital. I think we continued to do a multifaceted approach.

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We give people the opportunity to engage.

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And that's really good. I just want to, you know, lessons learned so that at the next thing that comes up that we want to make sure we're getting a lot of engagement.

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We're using the same things that are successful so that that 17% can continue to grow so that, you know, we're regularly seeing incremental improvement in how we're reaching people.

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So that's excellent. The page visits question that I have. So 1.1.4 is great.

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1.4,000 is excellent.

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When you say that those who participate to use one or more. They view the videos. They open the budget book. They also read the information on the page.

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That 1.4 is that only people who engage that that level or does that also include people who clicked on the page and two seconds later.

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We're off the page.

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So I, and so through your chair, I'm going to turn over the lamp, but my fairly confident that is people that visit the page and then there's some additional information on what what they do when they're on there.

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That is correct. So through your chair to the camera.

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Councilor, that is correct, that it's people who actually are on the page and are on, are on, are there for more than 30 seconds?

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Yes, and that's correct. All right, that's excellent. And in Cudos on the work, getting the, giving the word out, I know it's a huge challenge and well done. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Murray, and we have Councillor Miklik up next. Very much through you to our CO. So, something that was brought up is affordability and, and I struggle, I don't know it's affordable anymore. Everyone's just telling me that everything's costing more.

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But so, when I read this letter this afternoon from the Chamber of Commerce, one of the points here is ensuring tax increases remain reasonable and manageable for families and businesses so that Lincoln continues to be affordable, competitive, place to live, work and invest.

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Competitive. So, when I look at past increases that we've had and I'm curious where and what's being presented initially this evening.

356
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I'm trying to understand what's our competitiveness looking like with the past increases that we've had and this increase that we're facing this year.

357
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,000
Just a point of clarification, I can speak.

358
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,000
It's competitiveness in terms of other municipalities.

359
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,000
Correct. Okay.

360
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:25,000
Whether what's a tax bill looking like for somebody in Niagara on the lake to compare to somebody in Lincoln.

361
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,000
Through you, sir, and I appreciate the clarification.

362
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:37,000
That's an interesting question, Councillor. In terms of, you know, me, I think trying to understand where you're going with it and maybe how to answer it for you.

363
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:42,000
If you're asking me, how do we compare it to others in terms of our competitiveness.

364
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:51,000
I would say the fact that we continue to get calls from businesses, the businesses continue to reach out both through the Chamber as well as our own staff.

365
00:46:51,000 --> 00:47:04,000
In terms of seeking opportunities here, seeking space here, seeking land here, makes me think we are competitive. Competitiveness isn't just the level of taxation, but it's the level of service one receives.

366
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:10,000
It's the incentives potentially that are in place both from ourselves and the region.

367
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,000
It is the transportation networks we have.

368
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,000
It's proximity to the GTA. It is transit opportunities.

369
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:25,000
I think there's a whole bunch of things that go into that competitiveness and are ranking in terms of where we stand.

370
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:34,000
So I think when the Chamber and the letter we received, you know, when I think I read a comment like that, I think it's keep taxes in track.

371
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:47,000
I mean, sure we remain affordable, but at the same time let us be competitive not only with our area municipalities in Niagara, but those also that are neighboring to us in terms of what we offer safe communities.

372
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:53,000
Good value for taxpayer dollars, affordable housing, all those other sorts of things.

373
00:47:53,000 --> 00:48:03,000
So I think it's much more of a holistic competitiveness, not just the municipal tax burden versus other things whether they be provincial, federal or otherwise in nature.

374
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:14,000
Thank you. I appreciate that answer. It's just, you know, businesses, real estate property owners, first thing they say. Okay, yeah, it's a good deal.

375
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:21,000
What are the property taxes like? What's the carrying cost? So I want to make sure that we're still competitive in that regard.

376
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,000
That's why I bring that issue up.

377
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,000
And second question that kind of.

378
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:34,000
Pigtails off of that is have we asked the region set a direction of three and a half percent?

379
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:42,000
I don't know if they're going to achieve that or not. I think they're struggling the day after they pass that motion.

380
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:49,000
But whatever the case has the Chamber of Commerce,

381
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Providing a opinion of what they think is a reasonable tax increase, is it?

382
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,000
Are they expecting inflation? Are they expecting 8 percent, 10 percent, 5 percent, 6 percent?

383
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:10,000
Do they provide any sort of input as far as what they consider to be representing the number of families business owners?

384
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:17,000
Just a point of clarification on that as well. So again, you've referenced the region there. Are you asking if the Chamber weighed in on the regions?

385
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:26,000
But you're so guidance or on ourselves as a municipality. I'm not, I just say, I just say that, you know, when targeted.

386
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:36,000
And I'm trying to understand affordability is an increase of 6 percent affordable.

387
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,000
That's what I don't know.

388
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:47,000
That three of them is your chair. I'll attempt answer the question. Again, I don't like speaking for other boards or agencies, but I did have a conversation.

389
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,000
I'll be at briefly.

390
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,000
With our Chamber of Commerce and their executive director is here this evening.

391
00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:00,000
But I don't think they're looking at it quite the way the Councillor is. I think asking the question.

392
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,000
And I would suggest, I'll go back to my previous answer.

393
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:08,000
When one talks about competitiveness, it isn't just one of my paying municipal taxes.

394
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:16,000
Municipal taxes is one of a list of a number of things that makes a municipality that makes a region that makes an area competitiveness.

395
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,000
So did they look at it and say the increase should be x? The increase should be y? No, they didn't.

396
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,000
You're going to get sick of hearing when you talk about this. I know we only control our portion of it,

397
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:34,000
but we are one third of that tax bill, so I could give you a negative number and taxes potentially could still go up by 6 percent

398
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:40,000
because of the region and the education portion of the tax accounts for two thirds of the property tax bill.

399
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,000
That is not to say that we shouldn't be doing hard work. We shouldn't be getting our number as low as possible,

400
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:51,000
but we only account for 37 percent of that particular bill. So it's about doing our job well,

401
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:58,000
but about offering other things that continue to make us what I would say is competitive and for me the proof is,

402
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,000
you know, do the calls still come in, do people still come to us, do people still get good service.

403
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:11,000
I would tell you one question I hear more than what are my property taxes from businesses is how quickly can I get through your processes?

404
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,000
Are you efficient? How long before I can get a building permit?

405
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:23,000
Those are the things that I often look at. In addition to what are the business property taxes that people get charged,

406
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:29,000
and so I don't think I've totally answered your question and not because I'm trying not to,

407
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:39,000
but because that's not necessarily how the conversations with our partnering agencies and other agencies that weigh in typically role.

408
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:47,000
And again, you know, I'm just, it's just the fourth bullet point in this letter that we received this afternoon,

409
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:55,000
that generated those sorts of thoughts in my head and trying to understand what we can and can't do,

410
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,000
and that's why I bring that up. Thank you.

411
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:05,000
Thanks, Councillor McClick. And again, I think actually there's a good tool that the region provides that I did post this week,

412
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,000
and that's around a little bit that actually you can go municipality,

413
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:15,000
municipality in the region, enter in a assessed home value and then see what the taxation would be in that municipality.

414
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:20,000
And I believe we rank the fourth lowest that of the Niagara municipalities on the same horse.

415
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,000
Yeah, it's an interesting tool to utilize, I was quite fascinated by the information and relieved at the outcomes.

416
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:31,000
Through you, Mr. Sherry, I want to commend that comment and appreciate the fact that you did put it out there,

417
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:37,000
and that we are the fourth lowest in case the chair's comments weren't heard.

418
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Okay.

419
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:44,000
Send it over to you or follow me on Facebook and you'll get it right there.

420
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,000
Councillor Patrick, you are next in the queue.

421
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Thank you very much, Chair Russell.

422
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:56,000
And probably a question to Mr. Compolis, Mr. Dianni, and even the mayor.

423
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:01,000
So thank you very much for the increase in engagement.

424
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:08,000
Having been a former employee at Stats Canada, I like that stuff.

425
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:13,000
I find that fascinating and Mr. Kirk Hopplis actually mentioned doing surveys.

426
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:21,000
I'm the same. I like to, I think it's my duty to do a survey, having been involved in that industry.

427
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:28,000
And again, making it easy, check boxes, because it does take a lot of time.

428
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:37,000
I noticed a couple weeks ago, and fascinated by it, because the number of people too that say they don't have computers.

429
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:47,000
They're not on social media. One of the tools that the city of St. Catherine does is that the mayor holds like a town hall over the phone for one hour and talks about it.

430
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:55,000
So wondering if we've ever reached out to them to get the level of engagement kind of questions that are asked and get their thoughts on that.

431
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:00,000
Maybe that's something that we can explore going forward, because that way you cover everything, right?

432
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:07,000
You've got print covered, you've got digital media covered, you've got old fashioned telephone covered, right?

433
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:13,000
So I think in that aspect too, and you can opt out from that process.

434
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:21,000
So at least it gives a lot of resonance and opportunity to engage, and they can't say we didn't try, right?

435
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:29,000
Because we've used all four minutes, just want to get your thoughts on that, because I think that might be something helpful going forward.

436
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,000
As you see, three of us you share one, and I take a stab at it first.

437
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:42,000
So we have talked about it. We do see what St. Catherine's is doing. I've used them in the past in a previous role, and so they do work.

438
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:48,000
At times they can be costly, and so I think if we're going to make a conscious decision to go in that direction.

439
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:57,000
And maybe the cost has come down depending on I think the scope, how we want to do it, how many of them we're doing, how many people we're going to actually call etc.

440
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:06,000
It could be something we do, maybe do less of something else, in terms of ads in the traditional outreach, and maybe try something like this before.

441
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:13,000
I know the mayor mentioned it, and we did say that it was a cost prohibitive, but definitely something we can look at.

442
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:19,000
It's about prioritizing and maybe looking at, do we do something different one year than another year, and completely go away from this.

443
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:29,000
I will say that I, you know residents who have reached out, and we do have a couple of very keen residents who like to talk surveys with us, and like to provide us their advice and their perspectives.

444
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:45,000
I've asked a few of them even, and I suspect they're watching this evening, but I have asked them to share with me, who does it well, who doesn't do it well, at point us to a direction, and so I think there's a benefit to us also looking at and maybe trying to learn from others who do it.

445
00:55:45,000 --> 00:56:00,000
We actually do that in terms of talking around various tables to learn, but I said, you know, outside of Niagara, there's someone that's really nailing it and doing it really, really well in terms of engagement, and so got some ideas.

446
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,000
Again, we can also have the one-on-one conversations with residents.

447
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:14,000
We do a lot of residents reach out to us and want to have conversations about surveys, about budget, and we do provide them more information and find, again, different ways to engage.

448
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:20,000
Again, different ways to engage with them, but point duly noted in terms of the telephone town hall approach.

449
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:37,000
Okay, that's terrific, because it tweaked me again, sending the email to you collecting the data from Councillor Brenney and my word meeting is that we had the sign in sheet that it had the name, it had an email, and it had a telephone number.

450
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:46,000
And I think part of the reason we had such great engagement at ours is that, you know, we leveraged what staff did.

451
00:56:46,000 --> 00:57:00,000
Social media newspaper, Councillor Brenney, and I both posted on socials, and actually I texted it to over 75 residents, like just took the snapshot of the picture that staff provided.

452
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:08,000
And the engagement was there, so we tried to use everything out there possible, and it works, it does work.

453
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:17,000
So I just thought of that going forward. Like if we're collecting this information, we can use it going forward. So appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you chair.

454
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:28,000
Through you Mr. Chair, just to that point, I also think sometimes a burning platform of sorts, a galvanizing issue is what gets people out and we've seen that on particular issue.

455
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:34,000
Absolutely, I'm encouraged by the amount of people on the outreach that both you and Councillor Brenney did.

456
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:40,000
But I also think one particular issue really drove people to attend, and sometimes that's the case.

457
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:46,000
And budget always isn't that one galvanizing issue or burning platform.

458
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:51,000
Director Tuna Kaisu, I think it is. No doubt about it.

459
00:57:51,000 --> 00:58:02,000
Thank you, Councillor Patrick. One question from my standpoint to corporate communications. On slide 13, you referenced a question that to me was on answer where you said,

460
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:09,000
if you were given the option, would you be willing to contribute an extra $50 to help and hand the program or service, that is especially meaningful to you.

461
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:18,000
And it shows answered 73% but doesn't indicate whether they said yes or no. Just curious on what the outcome of that was.

462
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:29,000
Okay, through you chair. Oh, to you chair. It doesn't mean yes. So who those who answered it, maybe the way we were did it here is an exactly how it was awarded in the survey, but what basically what we said was,

463
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:36,000
if you're willing to contribute, then please go ahead and tell us which ones. So if they skipped it, that means they were not willing to contribute.

464
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,000
Thank you for the clarification. Again, I read that through Michael. I just want to know what that.

465
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:45,000
It is yes. It is absolutely yes and no. All right, perfect. Thank you very much for the clarification.

466
00:58:45,000 --> 00:59:01,000
And I believe our Q&A and that portion is now complete. So we are going to move over to the capital budget overview with spending. I believe director Tuna Kaisu is coming back up.

467
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:24,000
Thank you chair. And through you was nice to have a little break there. And I do want to acknowledge and thank the communications team and the manager of corporate communication just for all the work that we do together on that and for all of the support. So just wanted to say that from from the finance side.

468
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:35,000
So here we are. Here we are with our 2026 capital budget. This slide shows you an overview of the spending that's proposed for next year.

469
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,000
9% for corporate infrastructure and 3% for social infrastructure.

470
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:19,000
This next slide is an overview of the funding sources for that budget. So the funding source is equal to spending, and you can see 38% is grants and miscellaneous other revenues.

471
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:32,000
26% from the infrastructure reserve fund, 16% from development charges, 12% from the sanitary sewer reserve fund, and 8% from the water reserve fund.

472
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:42,000
So that gives you the overview. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to our director of public works, who's going to talk about the capital renewal programs.

473
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:59,000
Thank you, 3 Mr. Chair and members of council. I'd like to go over a few slides as it pertains to our capital renewal programs.

474
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:09,000
So the town has a number of renewal capital renewal programs, which require a budget each year for the maintenance and rehabilitation of our infrastructure.

475
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:24,000
These programs are essential in delivering very important services to our residents across the community, ensuring that they're safe and healthy and there's a number of programs I'm going to go over here.

476
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:30,000
So the first one road and right away programs, so these would focus on our transportation services.

477
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:36,000
The largest one being our road resurfacing and rehabilitation program, focusing on roads.

478
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:51,000
We have the roadside safety program, another very important program where we look at investing in traffic calming improvements, speed reduction, our guide rail protection programs.

479
01:01:51,000 --> 01:02:06,000
Programs like that, we have sidewalk repair programs, sidewalk investments. So again, a very important program in making sure we're providing connectivity for pedestrians promoting active transportation in the community.

480
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,000
And we have bridging programs, we have a lot of bridges and culverts to maintain.

481
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:26,000
So for 2026, the total budget for the road and right-of-way programs is proposed at 2.13 million.

482
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:31,000
So the slides we're going to get it talk a little bit about the roads program.

483
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:39,000
So the town has invested heavily into its road network over the last several years, made a lot of good investments.

484
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:51,000
I'm going to talk about the pavement condition index or PCI, which is a rating number, zero to 100, and it's used to assess the condition of road surfaces.

485
01:02:51,000 --> 01:03:04,000
It's a little chart in the bottom of the slide there that kind of lays out all the various categories of this PCI range ranging from very good down to failed.

486
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:10,000
Essentially the higher the number means the better condition the road is in.

487
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:26,000
So the town's current average network wide rating, so an average of all of our entire roads average together, is estimated to be in an upper range of the fair condition category with a PCI value of approximately 68.

488
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:41,000
So we're kind of right at the bottom of the good category into the fair category, and again that's an estimate that we're providing on our current overall rating.

489
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:50,000
The proposed short term financial strategy in this budget that is before you is to reduce the funding of the road's program.

490
01:03:50,000 --> 01:04:02,000
We're looking at a 1.75 million investment next year versus 2.2 million that we have this year just for comparison.

491
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:09,000
And we need to do this while we build the contribution to the capital reserves to help reduce the infrastructure gap.

492
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:17,000
So we wanted to take a look at that reduced funding level and look at what does that do to the condition of our road.

493
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:28,000
So we use performance modeling to help guide us with our decision making on budgets different scenarios for our road system.

494
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:38,000
And it predicts the average PCI level of service for the road network will drop to around a 65 rating, so being in the fair condition rating.

495
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:45,000
So we did check that and we're looking at that level of service rating of a 65.

496
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:54,000
And again as I mentioned we're looking at a 1.75 million dollar budget proposed for next year.

497
01:04:54,000 --> 01:05:02,000
This slide here so we want to kind of share a little bit of information graphically from the performance modeling that we did.

498
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,000
So the graph on the right hand side there.

499
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:15,000
So what we're kind of graphing is we have the average PCI so this is the average PCI is the average of all your road network.

500
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,000
So it's giving you an average of your entire road network over time.

501
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:26,000
So the red when we look at the graph red line is basically if the town doesn't do anything doesn't invest in anything.

502
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:31,000
Which you can see the you know the road condition or the PCIs.

503
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:36,000
You know really deteriorate over time we obviously don't want to do that.

504
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:47,000
The yellow line on the graph in the middle represents the forecast PCI with an annual budget of 1.75 million each year.

505
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:52,000
Which will result in an overall decline in condition over time.

506
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:59,000
And again we don't want to recommend that either we don't want to see our road system decline or the condition of our road system.

507
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:09,000
The black line illustrates the forecast PCI if the town incrementally increases the annual funding each year to maintain a fair condition.

508
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:14,000
And that's what staff is recommending through the budget process.

509
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:19,000
So the proposed budget for 2026 we're looking at 1.75 million.

510
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:24,000
But we want to see that incrementally increase each year thereafter.

511
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:30,000
Again trying to also balance contributing to our infrastructure reserve.

512
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:42,000
So we're looking at about $250 to $300,000 a year increase that we want to continue to do on the roads program.

513
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:58,000
So the gap between the yellow and the black line on the graph there increases over time which demonstrates you know there's a cost to close that gap and it becomes much more expensive over time.

514
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:03,000
If the funding level of 1.75 million is maintained each year.

515
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:10,000
Which again is that yellow line and you can see kind of the road conditions declining over time.

516
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,000
We just use an example that little circle on the graph.

517
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:19,000
So say in 2031 if we just continue to invest the 1.75 million each year.

518
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:28,000
That gap is actually going to cost of $4 million to bring the road conditions back up to what we're recommending.

519
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,000
Moving forward with next year.

520
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:38,000
So just wanted to kind of highlight that that gap is very expensive if we leave that over time.

521
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,000
So instead staff recommend the funding being currently increased each year.

522
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:51,000
And that the PCI is maintained in a fair condition for our level of service without significant decline.

523
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:57,000
And that the cost was smoothed over the 10 year horizon and the towns road assets are preserved.

524
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:05,000
So we feel this is a responsible plan that balances both our service levels in terms of our road conditions.

525
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:11,000
And as well financial sustainability.

526
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:16,000
So moving over to our fleet replacement program.

527
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:23,000
Just a little information the town has almost $10 million in fleet and equipment.

528
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:27,000
So it's a large asset that we have that we have to maintain.

529
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:39,000
Our asset management plan that we brought to Council back in the summer had suggested that you know we should be spending probably 750,000 when you have that value of a fleet.

530
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,000
With your full life cycle recovery.

531
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,000
So just to kind of give you an idea on the magnitude of our fleet asset.

532
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:55,000
Fleet is very important. We use it on a daily basis to provide all the important services to our residents in Lincoln.

533
01:08:55,000 --> 01:09:02,000
Vehicles are recommended for replacement when the maintenance cost start to weight the value of the actual asset.

534
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:12,000
Ensuring that we're making good investments and not, you know, pouring money into a piece of equipment or a vehicle that isn't worth anything.

535
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:23,000
The budget for 2026 is 110,000 that we're proposing is for a cargo van that's used in environmental services.

536
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:31,000
And is paid for by water and sanitary sewer reserves as outlined in the water and wastewater financial plan.

537
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:38,000
And there's no property tax impact with this particular fleet that we're requesting.

538
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,000
And just a highlight as well.

539
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:49,000
Some light duty vehicles which do not require sort of more customized outfitting for our purposes.

540
01:09:49,000 --> 01:10:04,000
We'll be least in the budget as per that report that we brought to council a couple of months ago talking about that option.

541
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,000
So our water and wastewater renewed capital renewal programs.

542
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:16,000
We have our water main replacement program in full and infiltration focusing on our sanitary sewer system.

543
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,000
Technology and optimization programs.

544
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:32,000
So a number of programs and for 2026 our water and wastewater programs are totaling 1.2 million.

545
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:39,000
And with that, turn it back over to our director of finance.

546
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,000
Thanks, director Graham.

547
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,000
Director, turn the cards.

548
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,000
Thank you and.

549
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:51,000
The director of public works in the deputy treasurer and I will all be here for questions about these projects after this portion of the presentation.

550
01:10:51,000 --> 01:11:01,000
So in a minute, I'm going to invite the deputy treasurer to come and do a walk through of each area of the capital budget and some of the project highlights.

551
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:05,000
But I wanted to give a reminder on this slide.

552
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:15,000
So when staff were directed about the 2026 budget by the mayor, we were still instructed to take council priorities into account.

553
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:20,000
And so we continued that process that we have been doing for a few years now.

554
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:29,000
So these were the priorities that council directed us to prioritize projects on with the top two being the highest priority.

555
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:35,000
So first of all, health and safety second legislative mandated and legal obligations.

556
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:45,000
And third strategic growth related investment for council priorities and overall healthy community lens and five grant opportunities and partnerships.

557
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,000
So we've continued that process.

558
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:52,000
It's the same type of prioritization and remapping that we've been doing for some time.

559
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,000
And so I just wanted to provide a reminder of that.

560
01:11:55,000 --> 01:12:07,000
And with that, I will turn it over to the deputy treasurer through you chair to come and give us some of the highlights.

561
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,000
Good evening.

562
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:16,000
So the town's capital budget is broken out by service area and we will start with corporate infrastructure.

563
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:24,000
So corporate infrastructure includes buildings, transit fleet, technology equipment and signage.

564
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,000
So there are three projects this year.

565
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:30,000
One being the cargo van that was discussed a couple minutes ago.

566
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:41,000
A fire vehicle, a replacement of the command car which will discuss in a moment and the 2026 IT equipment program.

567
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:50,000
We'll highlight the replacement of the fire command car which was originally purchased in 2016.

568
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:57,000
The car is currently used for emergency response incident command and fire department admin duties on a 24-7 basis.

569
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:09,000
So reliable fire vehicles are necessary to ensure a high level of public safety, reduce risk to the community and enable the municipality to comply with its legislative obligations.

570
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:30,000
And to put this in perspective, if this vehicle was ordered in 2026, it is anticipated that the new vehicle would not be ready until 2027 or possibly 2028, which would mean the existing vehicle would be nearly 12 years old by that time, which would be five years beyond its recommended replacement schedule.

571
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:40,000
The current budget for this vehicle is 113,000, and it is funded by the IRF.

572
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:45,000
So the next area is, oh sorry, I have a duplicate.

573
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:54,000
So the next area is the environmental and safety infrastructure, which includes water, wastewater infrastructure, and fire emergency equipment.

574
01:13:54,000 --> 01:14:13,000
Within this, we have the 2026 fire emergency equipment, I&I reduction program that was discussed previously, water meter replacements, and the fine Haven booster pump station, system rehabilitation.

575
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:21,000
The next area is social infrastructure, which includes recreation facilities, cemeteries and parks.

576
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:33,000
It includes 80,000 for sports field upgrades to the Jordan Field 3 lighting and arena work general repairs and maintenance.

577
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:47,000
And the last area is the transportation infrastructure, which includes roads, bridges and culverts, traffic calming and control, and a number of these programs were discussed earlier in the presentation.

578
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:53,000
We have the 30 road reconstruction from King Street to south limit, which will be discussed in a moment.

579
01:14:53,000 --> 01:15:00,000
The 2026 writes away, bridges and culverts program, 2026 road rehab and resurfacing.

580
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:24,000
So the 30 road reconstruction is a joint initiative between the town of Lincoln and the Niagara region. So coordinating with the region ensures that local infrastructure upgrades are completed efficiently, cost effectively, and in full alignment with regional improvements, minimizing, disruption and extending the useful life of the entire quarter.

581
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:39,000
So integrating the town's storm sewer work into the region's project ensures that all underground systems are designed in construction to modern standards, improving drainage capacity, storm water management and long-term reliability.

582
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:51,000
So the budget for 2026 is 310,000, which will be added to the previously approved budget of 500,000 for total of 810,000.

583
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:58,000
Funded 10% by development charges and 90% by the IRF.

584
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:11,000
And ball's falls, bridge number 50 is located over 20 Mall Creek on 6 Avenue environment, which has reached the end of its useful service life and requires replacement within the next 5 years.

585
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:23,000
So within the 2026 budget, there is the study for the completion of a schedule B municipal class environmental assessment and a preliminary 30% design study.

586
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:35,000
The preliminary design will establish accurate cost estimates, defined permitting requirements and position the town for detailed design funding applications and future construction.

587
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:45,000
So this bridge is a vital component of Lincoln's local road network and its tourism economy as it is situated within ball's falls conservation area.

588
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:50,000
It's an important connector for residents, visitors, and active transportation users.

589
01:16:50,000 --> 01:17:03,000
The 2024 by annual bridge inspection recommended replacement within the next 15 years because the structure was in poor condition.

590
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:19,000
So the study requested in the 2026 budget will include archaeological, cultural heritage, and ecological assessments to ensure the replacement design preserves the areas character, minimizes environmental impact and aligns with the town's environmental stewardship commitments.

591
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:36,000
So the budget requested is 400,000 of which 12.5% is funded by development charges 87.5% is funded by the Canadian Community Benefit grant.

592
01:17:37,000 --> 01:18:01,000
And finally, the summary of the capital budget for 2026 with total except, and it shares of 5.3 million and funding from development charges of 858,000 from the infrastructure reserve fund of 1.3 million other reserve funds of 1 million grants 2 million.

593
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:05,000
That's the end of the capital budget summary.

594
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,000
Thank you, Kate. You have to go to the next slide where says questions and answers.

595
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,000
There you go.

596
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,000
Thank you so much.

597
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:28,000
We do have a bunch of questions coming in. I just want to remind council that if you are asking questions about a specific project, please reference the page number in your binder with the project number so that we are all looking at the same information.

598
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,000
So I am.

599
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,000
Do you have any questions?

600
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:43,000
Yes. Thank you for your chair. I did just want to highlight on that capital summary page that there is no proposed new debt for this year.

601
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:49,000
Because I just thought that was worth highlighting for you as well not just what's there, but what's not there.

602
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:58,000
So this year we have kind of looked at those projects and this is what we're proposing all from reserves and grants for this year.

603
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,000
Thank you very much. And we have council very up first. Go ahead, council.

604
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:12,000
Thank you very much. And Charlotte, I recognize the challenge that it must have been for your team and the rest of the teams that are building budgets to stay within that.

605
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:18,000
But I do appreciate the fact that there is no more long term budget and no long term boring incorporated into this budget.

606
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:23,000
Recognizing how difficult and challenging that was to achieve. So thank you for that.

607
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:37,000
I wanted to talk to Mr. Graham briefly about the the road rehab and that's page 187 of our binders slide number 20 on the on the presentation that we are looking at.

608
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:41,000
I'm just going to go to that slide for us again.

609
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:45,000
So that I'm I remember what I wanted to ask you.

610
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:59,000
So Dave, I know that it also must have been a little painful for you to allow your roads to be in the fair category. I know that you get a lot of complaints about them and you've got a lot of challenges around that.

611
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:09,000
But I also recognize that something we've been talking about since I've been on council is the idea that I believe when I started the roads are sitting in around 72 and the conversations has been.

612
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:19,000
How much money can we save if we bring that down just a little bit. So I very much appreciate that we are doing that and I wanted to know what the impact has been. I know that again you're getting.

613
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:25,000
You're the one who's going to be hearing from or is hearing from people saying, you know, this road is not okay.

614
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:39,000
You know, the general public probably doesn't understand real carefully are real well the difference between 72 and 68 and 65, which is what we're going to be looking at for the year coming up.

615
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:50,000
So if I can just get a little bit of feedback from you as to what you've seen in the gap from 72 to 68 so that we can get an understanding what 65 will probably look like.

616
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:56,000
A three-mister chair to the counselor. I mean, yeah, it's a great question. I mean.

617
01:20:56,000 --> 01:21:05,000
The difference so basically that condition number that rating is really representing how bad is the road surface, right? So.

618
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:15,000
The difference between a 70 and a 65 so you're going to a road that's 65 you're going to feel a little more cracks on it. It's going to be a little rougher for the cars.

619
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:34,000
Compared to one that's 70 so you know, so there's it's hard to kind of quantify that but it's really, you know, that's how it's measured it's it's surface distresses so it'll be rougher bumpier maybe more patches.

620
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:40,000
I think, you know, maybe some context because I know it's a number two and it's 65.

621
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:57,000
I think one thing I'd like to say about that number is we we want to make sure we stay in that 65 range. There's a graph in your book near the camera what pages but it kind of shows the rate of deterioration on roads.

622
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:19,000
So we were deliberate with making sure that we stay at that 65 level because when a road starts getting close to a 60 so if it's rated as a 60 PCI or even low 50s that's at a point where that road now is deteriorating kind of going from a fair to a poor condition.

623
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:39,000
And that's not a good thing for the town in terms of how we're trying to be very mindful and smart about investing in our roads because then you lose that window of hey I could have resurfaced that road or resealed it at a fairly reasonable price and extended its life another 20 years.

624
01:22:39,000 --> 01:23:03,000
Because if it's you know in that protein that poor range like the 60 number or 55 then you're into much more costly work you can't just resurface it so what we want to do sort of trying to balance this whole program with recognizing how important it is to you know invest in our reserves be financially sustainable we don't want to lose control of our road conditions overall right so.

625
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:18,000
That's kind of that I just wanted to kind of give you some rationale on that 65 number and the importance of not letting it go down to the 60 below 60 it's going to cost a lot more money for the town to bring the roads back up but.

626
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:31,000
The earlier question I think probably the message to the public is you know some roads might be a little more not as raw you know a little more rough not as smooth as some of the others but again this is.

627
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:45,000
This is referred to as an average so we're talking about an average of our entire road network that's 300 kilometers so you're still going to have some bad roads out there and you're going to have some really good roads right so we're still this is an average.

628
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:58,000
Tole network that we're talking about fair enough and I did want to compliment you on the comment that this is a responsible plan that balances service levels with financial sustainability because I think that's what we're all trying to achieve so.

629
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:12,000
I recognize that it was probably some challenging conversations to meet that so well done I also just on that same page 187 I just want a little bit of clarity because it does say it's anticipated that the 2026 program may include.

630
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:28,000
And I'm assuming but I wanted to get just your confirmation on that I'm assuming that it may or may not depending on the cost because I'm sure that was it goes at tender costs are going to change things are going to come up so can you just just explain that may peace and what that might look like.

631
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:40,000
That three of Mr. Chair to the council yes for sure so what we try and do with our budget allocation for the roads program we want to make sure we maximize that budget on roads so.

632
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:46,000
We always have sort of a we call provisional roads or be less so when we go out for bidding.

633
01:24:46,000 --> 01:25:03,000
We you know we bid the list of rogen in the binder but there's also some provisional roads that are listed here too or be roads and we can we see what kind of pricing we get so if we get good pricing and we can afford to do those will will end up doing those roads as well.

634
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:07,000
Okay that's that's great and one last question if I could.

635
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:13,000
I'm I'm not sure who's going to answer this one I'm I'm looking at I'll give you a moment.

636
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:26,000
I'm looking at to slide number 37 but it's page number 188 and it's the ball's ball's bridge and I do understand that the.

637
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:37,000
The budget we're looking at right here is just a study it's not about replacing the bridge yet it's just getting ready to eventually replace the bridge and I do recognize that the study is going to be funded quite a bit by the Canadian.

638
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:43,000
I don't know what the CCBF stands for but benefit fund Canadian.

639
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:45,000
Thank you.

640
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:51,000
Through you chair it's the Canada community building fund excellent so they're going to help.

641
01:25:52,000 --> 01:26:00,000
Cooper quite a bit of the cost of the study which is excellent when we are ready when the study is done and now we're going to be ready to actually replace the bridge.

642
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:07,000
One of the conversations is is that it does go straight through the conservation area it is our it is our road but it does go through the straight through there.

643
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:20,000
Is there a possibility that when that road is replaced that we get other stakeholders to help support us the costs of that like MPCA are they involved in the cost of that or is that strictly a town cost.

644
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:32,000
Through Mr. Chair to the counselor a great question so through the study process the process we will identify stakeholders to be part of the consultation.

645
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:39,000
All the members of the public are part of that too but you're absolutely right conservation authority will be a major stakeholder.

646
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:49,000
We do want to talk to them about this bridge you know get their input on what it looks like and yeah maybe there's some opportunities for some cost sharing all that will be talked about.

647
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:52,000
Great thank you very much appreciate that chair.

648
01:26:52,000 --> 01:27:00,000
Thank you Councillor Murray and just a point of clarification on your first question for those that are following at home again you mentioned that the 65 is an average.

649
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:06,000
Do we also have a floor for which we will not let the roads drop below just in case.

650
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:13,000
Again those if they do hit 50 40 that it becomes an immediate action point.

651
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:21,000
A three missed chair so yes we do so on the there's I don't have a right in front of you but there's poor very poor.

652
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:28,000
And then there's fail we never have any fail right so that would be like you got major safety issues so.

653
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:30,000
We don't like our roads to get a lot.

654
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:48,000
Once they start getting into the poor you know they're they're getting rough and then very poor that's the roads that we have to manage and make sure that are you know appropriate but in the low end of the poor going into the failed I think a PCI probably.

655
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,000
Approaching 20 would be a real problem.

656
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:56,000
Okay thank you very much and next we have Councillor Timbers go ahead Councillor Timbers.

657
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:08,000
Thank you chair so most of my questions were were just us I was going to ask about the bridge as well and the road program but I do have a question just quickly around the 30 road.

658
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:14,000
So previously it was 500,000 was budgeted now this year 310.

659
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:23,000
And can you give me like what's next like what's next year and and when will this actually.

660
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:35,000
What's our portion compared to the region I don't know if you can answer that but that's a lot of money that we've already invested and we're still sitting like I don't know what's coming next.

661
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:47,000
I threw Mr. Chair to the Councillor so we we previously in budget approval 500,000 dollars and that was to start detailed design at 30 road.

662
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:56,000
I mean 30 road is a very challenging road is a apartment crossing there's a lot of work that has to be done to that road.

663
01:28:56,000 --> 01:29:05,000
A lot of stability work along the side of the road a lot of drainage improvements road improvements.

664
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:15,000
So it's not just a typical coming and pave the road so we've invested in design work to get a plan put together on how we're going to upgrade 30 road.

665
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:29,000
Geotechnical investigations slope stability so that's kind of what that 500,000 dollars was is forest to prepare a detailed design plan so that we're ready for construction shovel ready.

666
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:33,000
The 300,000 dollar budget before you this evening.

667
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:49,000
Is to actually work with the Niagara region to put storm sewer pipes in the road a little bit on 30 and in the King Street intersection just to remind her for everybody the King King Street is being reconstructed by the region of Niagara.

668
01:29:49,000 --> 01:30:00,000
They just awarded their tender and they're going to be starting the work next year a big part of that project is to redo the 30 road King Street intersection is going to be stop lights.

669
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:10,000
Put in there, and there are also in the scope of the job, the King Street job goes from kind of the roundabout green lane, all the way into Lincoln Avenue.

670
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:27,000
So it's a major project for the community very important. So what the budget before you tonight is, as part of our future 30 road reconstruction works, we're going to be doing storm drainage on 30 road that we have to do.

671
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:32,000
So these pipes are going to be for us to connect to in the future for our project.

672
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:39,000
And that's why we want to do them now, because the region is upgrading and reconstructing their intersection.

673
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:51,000
And we want to coordinate that with the region and put those pipes in now for the future, opposed to coming back five years later in ripping up a new road to put pipes in for our project.

674
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:53,000
That's really the reason.

675
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:58,000
I appreciate your comments, and I, you know, the intersection, can't wait for it to be done.

676
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:14,000
So just one other quick question through your chair. On the back to the ball's falls bridge, Councilor Marie kind of covered some of the questions, but there's a price tag for 2030, 2,300,000.

677
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,000
So we're a long way out to 2030.

678
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:23,000
Like how are we coming up with that, just the final cost?

679
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:29,000
Because it seems to me it's going to be a lot higher than the time we get to 2030.

680
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:43,000
Through Mr. Chair to the Councilor Seoul, the $2 million cost that's currently in the business case is what we would expect a bridge of that sort of same size, same look.

681
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:51,000
But really the purpose of the EA study, we're going to go through a number of options.

682
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:58,000
So it forces us to go through a number of options because the ball's falls location is quite unique.

683
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:04,000
It's a narrow bridge, it's quaint, a lot of heritage features.

684
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:08,000
So it is a challenge, you know, what kind of bridge do we want to have back?

685
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:12,000
Do we still want to have a narrow bridge to have sort of that character?

686
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:16,000
Do we want to put in a wider bridge?

687
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:20,000
There'll be all kinds of options, do we even put a bridge back?

688
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:25,000
So the EA requires you to go through a number of options, we cost them out.

689
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:33,000
And then they're ranked and then you have a preferred design scope of kind of what to move forward with.

690
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:38,000
Based on a lot of inputs, all consultation, all that.

691
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:47,000
So we'll have some design scope and then we'll be able to say okay, this is the decision for ball's falls bridge on what it's going to look like.

692
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:54,000
And then we'll be able to have a really accurate cost coming out of the EA to then guide us forward towards the construction in five years.

693
01:32:54,000 --> 01:33:01,000
Okay, I was just wondering with that number already put there how we came to that, but thank you very much for the comments.

694
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:07,000
And as part, there's no new dot being taken on that's probably want to hear so thank you.

695
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:12,000
Thank you Councillor Timbers and next we have Councillor Brittany.

696
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:23,000
Yeah, thank you chair, I was actually going to come out of the queue because both of my projects were balls falls and and 30 road, but just in follow up to the questions from Councillor Murray and Councillor Timbers.

697
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:28,000
So to your point director, it's a very narrow bridge.

698
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:35,000
We also have a very narrow bridge at you know in Jordan, you know what that goes over the creek there by the campground.

699
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:53,000
So I'm sure there must be feedback coming in from fire and other people saying, you know, this is kind of an area that we are kept concerns about whether it's, you know, extractions from the board, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

700
01:33:53,000 --> 01:34:04,000
So where are we in those discussions and whereby this becomes a much bigger job and now it's a five million dollar bridge instead of two point three.

701
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:19,000
And again, to Councillor, you know, Murray's comments, NPCA, this is NPCA grounds, you know, where's their skin in the game. So just just looking at where this could could be going.

702
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:33,000
Through Mr. Chair to the Councillor, I mean, yeah, great question because, you know, as the EA progresses cost is going to be one of the big factors that we, we managed through looking at the various options.

703
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:53,000
I mean, the problem with the bridge right now for like fire services and even ourselves with large dump trucks has a weight restriction on it. So we can't go over it with large vehicles. So that'll be one of our objectives when we go through the EA processes, whether it's still narrow at the end coming out of this or we make it wider.

704
01:34:53,000 --> 01:35:05,000
It's going to have enough weight, strength, capacity, and it's structure to carry emergency vehicles and large trucks. So that would be one of our mandates coming out of it.

705
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:11,000
And yeah, the conservation authority is going to be a major stakeholder.

706
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:19,000
We haven't had discussions with them yet and once we get budget and start this process, we'll be sitting down with them and engaging with them.

707
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:27,000
And yeah, maybe there's an opportunity to partner with them through this and we'd definitely be looking at all those opportunities.

708
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:39,000
Thank you. And through you Chair, I appreciate the comments there. And going back to 30 road director Graham, I mean, you've been at our word meetings.

709
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:47,000
You've been at the regional word meetings at the Legion. You've been at our most recent, you know, we've got residents on 30 road that have been saying,

710
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:55,000
you know, what's going on, why, you know, we were told this was going to be dealt with. Now it's being pushed back. And that's all finding to Andy.

711
01:35:55,000 --> 01:36:01,000
But I think it's really important that we communicate exactly where this money is, you know, why it's being spent. You've already articulated that.

712
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:11,000
But I think it's very important, you know, that, you know, the people that are looking at what we're doing, you know, they're saying, okay, you put 500,000 and now you're putting another 310.

713
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:19,000
Well, this really isn't in essence. It's not really for the work that's going to come. The major work going up to Ridge Road.

714
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:23,000
It's to accommodate the regional work that's going to be happening at the intersection.

715
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:31,000
And I think it's important that that communication is clearly so people understand, you know, why this money is being put in this year's budget.

716
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,000
Thank you, Chair.

717
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:36,000
Thank you, Councillor Bernay. Councillor Pachariva.

718
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,000
Thank you, Chair Russell.

719
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:48,000
In through you to Mr. Graham, now I don't, Dave, I'm, I'm going to question about the infrastructure reduction, right?

720
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:56,000
So first off, just because I want to get a sense, and you said, like, Councillor Murray asked the question, what's the difference between 72 and 65?

721
01:36:56,000 --> 01:37:04,000
Now, I want to use a real-life example. I don't mean to pick on the region, but I'm going to, I'm going to use the North Service Road.

722
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:10,000
So between Ontario Street and tougher Road cracks, like it's bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

723
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,000
What would that rate at?

724
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:21,000
I've top of your head because you're right as opposed to from tougher road to Victoria, smooth.

725
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:31,000
Just to ballpark it, so I have a sense and maybe people that drive that, then have a feeling of what that's like.

726
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:41,000
Because like, 62, 75, it's all arbitrary, like a real-life example. Hey, this is, this is a road that's 50.

727
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:48,000
Just if you can, and I hate to put you on the spot like that, but, but he's going to.

728
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:53,000
And I apologize if we were doing this and not giving you a headshot.

729
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,000
A range would be more than acceptable than we thought.

730
01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:57,000
Yeah.

731
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:58,000
Yeah.

732
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,000
If it's possible, if not, we can always have.

733
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,000
If not, we can come back.

734
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:04,000
Just curious George.

735
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:10,000
So three of Mr. Chair and Councillor, I totally understand where you're coming from, trying to get some examples.

736
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:13,000
I actually do have, for next year's road program.

737
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:14,000
Okay.

738
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:19,000
For next year's roads program, and I do have some PCIs that I could share, just to kind of give you a feel.

739
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:25,000
I don't know if you've driven any of these roads, because I think that would be helpful.

740
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:32,000
So John Street, very poor condition from Victoria Avenue, heading towards Beansville.

741
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:35,000
It's, it's, it doesn't as a very poor road.

742
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:40,000
So the PCI on that would be 31.

743
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:45,000
Oh, so just, so just give you a feel for what if, how bad.

744
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:46,000
Okay.

745
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,000
That road is, it would equal a 31.

746
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:55,000
So in comparison, I don't know what other roads you drive, but.

747
01:38:55,000 --> 01:39:01,000
Toughered roads in our roads program for next year, between King Street and John Street.

748
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:08,000
And that's considered kind of one of our, you know, better roads that we want to preserve, right, one of seal it next year.

749
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:11,000
It has a PCI of 71.

750
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:25,000
Just for example, another road in our program next year, 23rd Street, between 8th Avenue and Glen Road.

751
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:29,000
That has a PCI of 71 as well.

752
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,000
So that it would give you a feel.

753
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,000
Okay.

754
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:35,000
Yeah, no, no, no, no, thank you very much for that.

755
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:46,000
And, and so we'll follow up to that is, so the reduction in $450,000 this year compared to previous years.

756
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:50,000
Isn't going to cause the road network to deteriorate that much,

757
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:59,000
because the, like the slide 21 shows it virtually.

758
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:02,000
Why isn't that working?

759
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,000
There we go, 21.

760
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:08,000
She shows it virtually the same, correct?

761
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:10,000
Through Mr. Tier to the counselor.

762
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:17,000
Yeah, I think like the main message, I think we want to get across is over time, longer term.

763
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:20,000
Yeah, it really falls off.

764
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:23,000
Yeah, if you let it go for two months, that's right.

765
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:35,000
So having said that and again, I, you know, looking forward on how we want to add 250 to 300,000 to that to get it up to 3.2 million,

766
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:40,000
because, you know, I mean, we used to spend 600,000 on roads, right?

767
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:45,000
And we were like, scissifice pushing the rock up the hill, right?

768
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,000
So now we've got to a point of stability.

769
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:56,000
At a, at a future meeting, would you be able to provide a graph that then shows how the PCI goes up with that additional spend?

770
01:40:56,000 --> 01:41:03,000
Is that something that we could extrapolate?

771
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:11,000
So through you, Chair, to the counselor, in the slide presentation, that a graph, I'm not sure what slide I'm great is.

772
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:14,000
I don't know quite of enough room here.

773
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:24,000
The slide that's in there, the black line at the top where we put that circle, that's based on putting an increase in each year.

774
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:36,000
So that top line, what, what the director of Public Works and myself are recommending is to increase the contribution by 250 to 350 to 300,000 per year,

775
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,000
and that's what will keep it at that level.

776
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:43,000
If we kept it at the 1.75 million, it's the yellow line in the middle.

777
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:48,000
So the yellow line is staying keeping the contribution the same.

778
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:53,000
The black line is by incrementally increasing it.

779
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:56,000
But it doesn't show much.

780
01:41:56,000 --> 01:42:00,000
Doesn't show the PCI actually really moving.

781
01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:06,000
Through you, Mr. Chair, it would be to maintain the PCI.

782
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:13,000
We need to, so we need to invest that incrementally on an annual basis to maintain the PCI.

783
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:14,000
Right.

784
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:15,000
Okay.

785
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:17,000
We'll talk afterwards about that.

786
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:18,000
Okay.

787
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,000
Question number two, if I may cancel myself.

788
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:21,000
I think that was two plus plus A.

789
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:22,000
No, no, it was a problem.

790
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:23,000
It was a problem.

791
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:25,000
Well, I do like the S.

792
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:30,000
And again, so slide 24.

793
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:35,000
And you know, this is another one near and dear to my heart.

794
01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:37,000
Water waste water.

795
01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:43,000
So, and I didn't see it, and maybe I missed it, and if I did, I'm sorry.

796
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:47,000
But we've replaced all the cast iron, right, in our system.

797
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:51,000
And we're now addressing the cement line that exists.

798
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:55,000
Do we have that number that you used to provide every year?

799
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:57,000
And you know, I love that number.

800
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:04,000
It shows, as we make these investments, how that cement line cast iron goes down.

801
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:05,000
Is that?

802
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:09,000
Again, like at an at an next meeting, is that something you could give us?

803
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:11,000
A three mystery chair to the counselor.

804
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,000
I don't have it handy on me, but we can definitely get it back.

805
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:17,000
But for sure, I mean, councils made a lot of investment.

806
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:22,000
We don't have any cast iron pipe on the inside of the pipe.

807
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:23,000
Any more?

808
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:24,000
Those are all gone.

809
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,000
You still have some cast iron lined cement line pipe.

810
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:27,000
Yep.

811
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:28,000
Which we're tackling now.

812
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:29,000
Yep.

813
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:30,000
We're working with those.

814
01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:32,000
And we have some ductile iron pipe as well.

815
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:36,000
But our metallic pipe is decreasing, which is good.

816
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:38,000
And third one, sure.

817
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:39,000
You're at three plus.

818
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:41,000
We're going to put you at the end of the line here.

819
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:42,000
Okay.

820
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:43,000
It is a topic.

821
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:44,000
It's okay.

822
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:46,000
I was having questions within my office.

823
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:49,000
Is it related to the water?

824
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:50,000
No, no.

825
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:51,000
It's related to the boss.

826
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:52,000
Okay.

827
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:53,000
We'll come back.

828
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:54,000
You can come back in.

829
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:55,000
If you'd be obliged.

830
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:56,000
Council make a lick.

831
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:57,000
Please go ahead.

832
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:58,000
All right.

833
01:43:58,000 --> 01:43:59,000
That's for you too.

834
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:01,000
I'm pretty sure to even share that.

835
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:05,000
So I'm going to hit that boss falls bridge too.

836
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:08,000
I don't think we'd beat that down enough.

837
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:11,000
But like, you know, we talk about 400 grand for NEA.

838
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:13,000
And I'm struggling with this.

839
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:15,000
This doesn't even buy a bag cement.

840
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:21,000
And is there any way to tender a project like this?

841
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:27,000
With the effort reducing red tape and letting private enterprise tender.

842
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:35,000
The EA itself, the design itself, and the construction and snowball that into one whole

843
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,000
fall wax.

844
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,000
This is such a thing that's possible.

845
01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:42,000
I don't know from a public works perspective.

846
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:45,000
Through Mr. Chair to the counselor.

847
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:48,000
So for design build.

848
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:50,000
So that could be an option.

849
01:44:50,000 --> 01:45:00,000
So the purpose of the EA is to basically come up with a scope of, you know, what are we going to do?

850
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,500
But what kind of bridge are we putting back? What's it going to look like? So we first kind of have to figure out what that looks like through the EA process with all the studies, the consultation, the stakeholder engagement. Then once we have a preferred alternative, that's referred to, then you can go to detailed design. And that's where you could consider, you know, do I want to do a design bill? Because then the, the, the proponent would have something to work with.

851
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:39,000
I just struggle with the 400,000, not even buying a bag of cement. That, that, I have a hard time with, but I'm not, that's why you do what you do.

852
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:54,000
And part two to that question, if I may, we're, we're talking about replacing possibly the Bailey bridge down by the campground also, is there any way to do an EA study that encompasses both bridges at the same time?

853
01:45:54,000 --> 01:46:20,000
I just ask that, because it's just, the same creek, it's the same fish, it's the same, same, same frogs and everything else, same same, same heritage, same sort of thing. And this seems similar bridges in design, can we look at, perhaps, doing that, like, you know, combining two EAs, providing two EAs within one, if we have to go that route.

854
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:22,000
Where has that been considered?

855
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:40,000
I hear Mr. Chair. I mean, I guess you probably could consider that. I mean, it would cost more money, because we're now adding a whole other bridge to the process and the EA process.

856
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:48,000
It does look at the localized location of the future works, the project.

857
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:55,000
So even though their bridges, they are kind of far apart, you know, different locations.

858
01:46:55,000 --> 01:47:00,000
So I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it's just, you would cost a lot more money than 400,000.

859
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:09,000
But I understand what you're, but even cost 500 for two instead of 800 for one, or instead of 800.

860
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:16,000
That's why I kind of made that suggestion. But again, I'm not sure what's been kicked around the, the back room.

861
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:27,000
So as far as ideas are ways to combine that sort of thing, that's something I bring up.

862
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:31,000
This week, Councilor McLean, can we have a solution?

863
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:32,000
Through you.

864
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:33,000
Comment.

865
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:41,000
Through you, Chair, to the Councillor. Is it okay if we take that away and we'll try to come back to the next meeting for something with you on that?

866
01:47:41,000 --> 01:47:45,000
It's just not something I can answer on the spot. Thank you.

867
01:47:45,000 --> 01:47:50,000
Another question I have through you.

868
01:47:50,000 --> 01:48:05,000
It's going to be about the fire vehicle that, on page 231, that fire command vehicle.

869
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:14,000
From a purchasing, like the last, we've purchased a vehicle very similar to this a couple years ago, I believe, and that particular vehicle we financed.

870
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:29,000
Took a adventure. This particular vehicle we're using the infrastructure reserve fund. Why didn't we use the infrastructure reserve fund at that time and why are we doing that now?

871
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:31,000
Through you, Chair, to the Councillor.

872
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:36,000
It's, you know, it's the same theme we've been talking about throughout which is just prioritization.

873
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:44,000
At that time, we had other demands and priorities that we needed to place on the infrastructure reserve fund.

874
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:49,000
I'd have to double check which vehicle you're talking about.

875
01:48:49,000 --> 01:49:00,000
I do need to do an update for Council because at the end of last year, we had some savings on debt payments, which I put in my final year and report that we would use for a

876
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:06,000
adventure substitution. So I'm actually trying to apply that to those fire vehicles as opposed to the debt.

877
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:11,000
So we're actually trying to reduce the debt that we're taking out for vehicles.

878
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:17,000
But I'll give you an update on that when we finish out the year and I've determined what funding is possible.

879
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:24,000
So we're trying to find alternatives to debt funding for vehicles where we can.

880
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:27,000
If that answers your question.

881
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:36,000
And then along along that line with that fire vehicle, what happens with the old one?

882
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:39,000
Like it, it's what happens with this way.

883
01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:44,000
It says that it's experiencing transmission problems having intermittent and electrical faults.

884
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:47,000
Tires are worn. Are we going to be doing all those repairs anyway?

885
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:50,000
And if so, why wouldn't we just keep the truck?

886
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:56,000
Through you, Chair, if I can turn that over to the fire chief, I believe I know the answer to that question.

887
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:00,000
I'll let him respond.

888
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,000
Yeah, thank you. Through you, Chair.

889
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,000
We will keep it going.

890
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:09,000
Just try to keep it running until we can get the replacement.

891
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:15,000
But after we get the replacement, we will dispose of it at auction like we do most of the fleet.

892
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:18,000
We just sold a pump by this week. One of the old surplus pump.

893
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:21,000
So you don't need to declare surplus and dispose of.

894
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:23,000
Okay. Perfect.

895
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:27,000
I'll jump back in later. I think I'm good for now.

896
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:30,000
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

897
01:50:30,000 --> 01:50:37,000
Thank you, Chair, Russell. My question is about project number 20633 on page 188.

898
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:40,000
And it's the roadside safety program.

899
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:50,000
I'm glad to see, of course, that there are proposed permanent speed bumps on Cedar Brook and Drake Avenue and Connor Drive.

900
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:56,000
My question is, what goes into the final decision to establish those?

901
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:58,000
And well, that's my first question.

902
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:09,000
The question is, if you were to break out, I'm curious, if you were to break out the cost of those permanent speed bumps out of that 90,000, what would it be?

903
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:18,000
And again, mostly curious, because I'm aware of the conversations that have gone on over the years about speeding on both those roads.

904
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:21,000
And I do support them.

905
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:28,000
But again, I'm curious what each of those streets, particularly Cedar Brook Avenue and Drake Avenue, what have we heard?

906
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:37,000
And what does it cost to install those out of the 90,000?

907
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:40,000
Through Mr. Chair to the Councillor.

908
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:48,000
The locations are derived kind of from the temporary speedhumps.

909
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:59,000
So the way the program works is when we have a request for speedhumps and warrant the speedhumps with speed studies and following our traffic calming policy.

910
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:05,000
We place temporary ones out on the street, based on feedback, what we've seen.

911
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:11,000
And usually the temporary speedhumps are on a street for at least a couple years, maybe three years.

912
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:20,000
And every year we do get feedback from residents, so we send them out a survey and ask them, did you find the speedhumps effective?

913
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:25,000
And we get comments in terms of maybe adjusting their locations, et cetera.

914
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:32,000
So through the temporary process, basically derives the final location.

915
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:38,000
So then that we feel comfortable investing in the more permanent ones.

916
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:42,000
Okay, thank you. And so how do we, who do we, who does the survey go to?

917
01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:46,000
Where does that list get compiled?

918
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:49,000
Through Mr. Chair. So it would be the neighborhood.

919
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:55,000
So we people along the street living in the area.

920
01:52:55,000 --> 01:53:05,000
And we also, I know with our web page, our website, we also promote and talk about what we're doing speedhumps, temporary speedhumps.

921
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:09,000
And a lot of times we will get feedback, not always from the survey.

922
01:53:09,000 --> 01:53:16,000
We'll get the survey results, but a lot of times people will just contact us about what they think about the speedhumps on a particular street.

923
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:19,000
So obviously we use that as well.

924
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:27,000
And to your other question around the speedhumps costs.

925
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:32,000
So for next year, I think that's going to probably be most of that money.

926
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:42,000
Depending on how many we put out for tender, they can bury around $7,000 a location.

927
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:53,000
But again, it really depends on how many that we're putting out for tender and the sort of the locations that they're going to go.

928
01:53:53,000 --> 01:53:57,000
Some locations may be a little more costly to install than others.

929
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,000
But just generally speaking, it's around $7,000.

930
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:07,000
Okay, so $7,000 per speedhump out of $90,000 budget for the roadside safety program.

931
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:11,000
So $21,000 or something like that between the three.

932
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,000
Okay, thank you.

933
01:54:13,000 --> 01:54:17,000
And through you, Mr. Chair, I have a question about IT.

934
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:20,000
One of what I asked that question.

935
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:22,000
And was that your third question?

936
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:23,000
No.

937
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:25,000
Well, when you asked the question?

938
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:28,000
Yes, no.

939
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:30,000
Tricky, man.

940
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:31,000
No.

941
01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:34,000
Steve's back here.

942
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:36,000
Go ahead.

943
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:40,000
Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair, and through you to Steve.

944
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:51,000
So, on page 147 of our binder, where the chart shows asset categories under the corporate asset management plan,

945
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:58,000
it says that our IT is currently in fair condition at 46%.

946
01:54:58,000 --> 01:55:05,000
With the projected average condition is 74%.

947
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:10,000
And the funding required is 0.47 million.

948
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:15,000
So, with that, investment will be good.

949
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:19,000
Our IT totally will be in good shape.

950
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:22,000
So, my question is about cyber security.

951
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:27,000
And I know there is only so much we can say when it comes to security publicly,

952
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:33,000
because security information is secure by nature.

953
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:36,000
But are we comfortable?

954
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:44,000
I mean, I'd like to what extent, what percentage, I guess, of that, of everything that we've lumped the IT category,

955
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:47,000
is applicable to cyber security.

956
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:59,000
And are we comfortable that we've invested enough in cyber security to be, if you could break it out, would you say it's very good?

957
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:04,000
Because that's where I'd like to see our cyber security is very good.

958
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:06,000
Thank you.

959
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:09,000
Through you, Chair, to the Councillor.

960
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:13,000
Our cyber security is good.

961
01:56:13,000 --> 01:56:23,000
We've actually recently made a fairly significant investment in it that I can't quite get into here, obviously, for security reasons.

962
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:27,000
That's coming out of our operating budget versus capital.

963
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:30,000
So, that's being handled that way.

964
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:36,000
And as far as our overall security goes, yes, we are secure.

965
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:46,000
Yeah, just want to get, make sure that we're very careful when characterization of our security protocols and the level of investment, where we are in open session.

966
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:51,000
I agree, so I'm not asking for detail, but I do want to know that I would do want to feel comfortable.

967
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:56,000
If you want to get into detail, then we would have to go into close session, obviously.

968
01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:06,000
But I am comforted hearing that IT feels very strongly that we're in a good position when it comes to cyber security.

969
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:09,000
Yes, we are in a good position.

970
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:10,000
Thank you.

971
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:11,000
Thank you, Councillor Pachema.

972
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:12,000
Councillor Pachema.

973
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:17,000
Back in the loop, look forward to the next Greek mythology.

974
01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:21,000
That example as well.

975
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:23,000
Thank you, Chair Russell.

976
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:26,000
Okay, boss falls bridge.

977
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:29,000
Slide 37 and 38.

978
01:57:29,000 --> 01:57:45,000
Dave, I thought that because I've been around for a while, I thought we were a place that bridge or did some work on it when we rebuilt Sixth Avenue or am I a remissed.

979
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:49,000
So we did Sixth Avenue from Victoria over to Glen.

980
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:51,000
Did we not do the bridge?

981
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:53,000
Through Mr. Chair to the council.

982
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:55,000
So just a little bit of background.

983
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,000
So the bridge was built in 1919.

984
01:57:58,000 --> 01:58:00,000
That's when it was constructed.

985
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:01,000
Okay.

986
01:58:01,000 --> 01:58:04,000
And then there is a rehabilitation about 15 years ago.

987
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:05,000
Yeah.

988
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:06,000
Yeah.

989
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:07,000
So we did some welding.

990
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:08,000
Okay.

991
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:10,000
So by more time on the bridge to extend its life a bit.

992
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:11,000
Okay.

993
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:13,000
So much like we did with the Bailey Bridge.

994
01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:14,000
Yeah.

995
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:20,000
So that's why we're kind of at the point now where we've done rehabilitation in the pass and we've got to replace it.

996
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:21,000
Okay.

997
01:58:21,000 --> 01:58:22,000
Terrific.

998
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:23,000
Terrific.

999
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:24,000
Thank you very much.

1000
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:26,000
And I had to take a little bathroom break.

1001
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:32,000
But I think I heard Councillor Mikkeluk as I was going out the door asking about two bridges.

1002
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:33,000
And what was I correct?

1003
01:58:33,000 --> 01:58:34,000
Is the Bailey?

1004
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:35,000
A couple in the E.A.

1005
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:36,000
A couple in the E.A.

1006
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:37,000
Okay.

1007
01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:42,000
Because I got a reminder that we had two bridges last pedestrian bridges that we had a better price on.

1008
01:58:42,000 --> 01:58:45,000
We had a better price on two and Council voted it down.

1009
01:58:45,000 --> 01:58:49,000
So I just, you know, want to remind you of what happened in the past.

1010
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:55,000
So if you're going to do that, don't waste staff's time.

1011
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:58,000
Follow up to the ball's falls.

1012
01:58:58,000 --> 01:59:05,000
Dave, knowing to, and Councillor Bernay went down this road about how it's a narrow bridge and everything like that.

1013
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:10,000
When we finally get there, we're going to have commenting agencies like,

1014
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:20,000
actually reach out and say, hey, we should make it wider.

1015
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,000
We should have the active transportation, the cycling thing.

1016
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:27,000
So hoping that they'll be a commenting group on it.

1017
01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:29,000
Through you, Mr. Chair.

1018
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:30,000
Absolutely.

1019
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:33,000
Because when we do an E.A. process like this, we don't have a choice, right?

1020
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:36,000
So there's going to be tons of consultation.

1021
01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:37,000
Okay.

1022
01:59:37,000 --> 01:59:38,000
Terrific.

1023
01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:42,000
And again, I heard Council make like going down this avenue.

1024
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:10,000
And what we get to that, like the business case of a fiberglass refrigerator placement where they come in and they do the abutments ahead of time.

1025
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:25,000
So you don't have to close the road for months on end and tie up money and flag people and this and that'll all be in a business case. So I heard you're going down that's what I'm happy to hear that. So thank you very much.

1026
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:37,000
Just my other question has to do with in council wrenchma got on to it with the with the speed permanent speed humps. And again, very supportive of this.

1027
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:43,000
We're about so they're going to go on counter drive because we already have the one there to access pro-citch park.

1028
02:00:43,000 --> 02:00:50,000
It's raised. So wondering because I didn't see a map that shows the installation of where those might be.

1029
02:00:50,000 --> 02:01:06,000
We had issues, Councillor Brenney and I both came across this at when we were campaigning from mountain street over to Cassandra and then from Cassandra up to the curve and we've we've got one on the curve and then one coming out the other end.

1030
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:10,000
So are there going to be multiple ones on that street or how are we going to address that.

1031
02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:15,000
Through Mr. Chair to the council. So I believe they're going to be closer towards the mountain street direction.

1032
02:01:15,000 --> 02:01:17,000
Okay, where you've seen the temporary ones.

1033
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:18,000
Okay, that's yeah.

1034
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:19,000
Okay, terrific.

1035
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:20,000
Thank you very much.

1036
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:21,000
Thank you.

1037
02:01:21,000 --> 02:01:22,000
Thank you.

1038
02:01:22,000 --> 02:01:23,000
Councillor Petrieva.

1039
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:24,000
Councillor McLeac.

1040
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:25,000
Back in a second time.

1041
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:29,000
Thank you very much.

1042
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:34,000
Just I'm going to I'm going to look at those water meters.

1043
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:36,000
We're replacing.

1044
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:41,000
I don't know how many water meters but we're spending 300,000 on water meters.

1045
02:01:41,000 --> 02:01:43,000
I thought we replaced them all.

1046
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:46,000
2020.

1047
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:51,000
Spend almost two and a half million or something around there in 2020.

1048
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:53,000
Page number.

1049
02:01:53,000 --> 02:01:58,000
It's it's it's it's it was in the presentation.

1050
02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:00,000
Through you chair to the council.

1051
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,000
I can answer that one fairly.

1052
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:06,000
Two two five eight two or page 31 on the.

1053
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:08,000
Go to right.

1054
02:02:08,000 --> 02:02:10,000
So through you chair.

1055
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:14,000
Those are recommendation as part of our water and wastewater financial plan.

1056
02:02:14,000 --> 02:02:18,000
So when we reviewed this with the consultants.

1057
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:20,000
And we looked at what is required over time.

1058
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:23,000
Their recommendation was that we put in an annual amount.

1059
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:27,000
Anything that we don't spend goes into a reserve specifically for water meters.

1060
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:33,000
Because similar to that situation that you were saying sometimes it's a large lump sum at one point in time.

1061
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:37,000
So their recommendation was that we put away for each year.

1062
02:02:37,000 --> 02:02:42,000
And then that way when there's a year where there's a lot will have it there if there's not as many.

1063
02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:49,000
It goes into the water meter replacement reserve and we have that available for a future date when it is a larger amount.

1064
02:02:49,000 --> 02:02:51,000
Okay.

1065
02:02:51,000 --> 02:02:57,000
So it's not a specific it's not that we specifically need 300,000 that we know of next year.

1066
02:02:57,000 --> 02:03:01,000
It's that their recommendation is that we put aside 300,000 per year.

1067
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:06,000
We use that as needed because we do have some replacements every year.

1068
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:10,000
And anything that's unused we put away just solely for that purpose in the future.

1069
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:11,000
Okay.

1070
02:03:11,000 --> 02:03:12,000
Perfect.

1071
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:13,000
Thank you.

1072
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:18,000
And one more question through you.

1073
02:03:18,000 --> 02:03:21,000
With public safety in that piece.

1074
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:22,000
That was.

1075
02:03:22,000 --> 02:03:23,000
Counselor.

1076
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:25,000
We're in jam a touch upon it.

1077
02:03:25,000 --> 02:03:27,000
Is there any concerns?

1078
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:29,000
You know I read the paper and I watch the news.

1079
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:30,000
There's no more photo radars.

1080
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:31,000
Is there any concerns?

1081
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:38,000
Do we rely on revenue from photo radar to fund this sort of thing?

1082
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:45,000
Is there any impact to our budget that might have changed in the last week or two?

1083
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:47,000
Just ask three questions.

1084
02:03:47,000 --> 02:03:48,000
Counselor.

1085
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:51,000
Through you chair to the counselor.

1086
02:03:51,000 --> 02:03:58,000
I am happy to say that the way that we budgeted for it was the first year we received that we put it into a reserve.

1087
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:02,000
So there is going to be a budget impact eventually, but not next year.

1088
02:04:02,000 --> 02:04:08,000
And it's something we're able to smooth out by using what we've put into that reserve towards that program.

1089
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:12,000
And then just kind of gradually letting it taper off if there is a budget impact.

1090
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:13,000
Okay.

1091
02:04:13,000 --> 02:04:14,000
Perfect.

1092
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:15,000
Thank you.

1093
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:16,000
Thank you.

1094
02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:17,000
Counselor.

1095
02:04:17,000 --> 02:04:18,000
Make a look.

1096
02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:20,000
Vice chair.

1097
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:21,000
Come on in.

1098
02:04:21,000 --> 02:04:22,000
Thank you.

1099
02:04:23,000 --> 02:04:35,000
One of the clarifications I wanted to pick up on a on a question that was asked by Councillor Murray regarding the job number 202639.

1100
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:38,000
Both full bridge.

1101
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:41,000
And regarding stakeholders and other interest parties.

1102
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:46,000
Is that bridge on our property like on the town right of way?

1103
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:48,000
Or do we is the road allowed like the road allowance?

1104
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:49,000
Yeah.

1105
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:50,000
Well, sometimes they are adjusted.

1106
02:04:50,000 --> 02:04:52,000
Something.

1107
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:55,000
Because of the way that jogs are we actually on.

1108
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:58,000
MPC a bland.

1109
02:04:58,000 --> 02:05:02,000
I'm just, you don't dance that day, but I'm just that jogging my memory.

1110
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:05,000
Because the years ago there was some robbie alignment.

1111
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:10,000
And I'll do the only thing I say that is any aid might be better on our property.

1112
02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:13,000
And maybe it's a better location for it than where it is there right now.

1113
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:14,000
That's all.

1114
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:16,000
Through Mr. Chair.

1115
02:05:16,000 --> 02:05:18,000
And that's a great question.

1116
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:21,000
There's a narrow road allowance up there.

1117
02:05:21,000 --> 02:05:33,000
But through this process we will be able to look at the legal property survey as we get as we do the EAs study and really confirm where property lines are.

1118
02:05:33,000 --> 02:05:34,000
You confirm all that.

1119
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:36,000
But it is a narrow spot up there.

1120
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:37,000
You're absolutely right.

1121
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:40,000
So it'll be reviewed further for sure.

1122
02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:41,000
Okay.

1123
02:05:41,000 --> 02:05:42,000
Thank you.

1124
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:43,000
Also.

1125
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:44,000
Job.

1126
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:45,000
Sorry.

1127
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:46,000
I don't have the page number.

1128
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:48,000
Another one for director Graham.

1129
02:05:48,000 --> 02:05:50,000
Job number 202-638.

1130
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:51,000
That's the vine haven.

1131
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:53,000
Booster pump station.

1132
02:05:53,000 --> 02:05:56,000
I realize this is the water.

1133
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:57,000
It David.

1134
02:05:57,000 --> 02:06:01,000
Is this off a regional main that we have to put this into fine haven?

1135
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:04,000
Or is this our main coming off of King Street?

1136
02:06:04,000 --> 02:06:05,000
Just like is there.

1137
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:07,000
Is that our portion is the region kicking anything?

1138
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:10,000
Or this is ours to bear solely.

1139
02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:12,000
Through Mr. Chair to the Council.

1140
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:13,000
So this is off our main.

1141
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:14,000
Also it's ours.

1142
02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:16,000
It's to basically boost pressure.

1143
02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:18,000
The King Street up to the bench.

1144
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:20,000
Just trying to get the region to kick in a little more.

1145
02:06:20,000 --> 02:06:21,000
It's all.

1146
02:06:21,000 --> 02:06:22,000
Sounds good.

1147
02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:23,000
Thank you.

1148
02:06:23,000 --> 02:06:24,000
Thank you.

1149
02:06:24,000 --> 02:06:25,000
Thank you.

1150
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:26,000
Sorry.

1151
02:06:26,000 --> 02:06:27,000
Thank you.

1152
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:28,000
Director Graham.

1153
02:06:28,000 --> 02:06:29,000
Thank you.

1154
02:06:29,000 --> 02:06:30,000
Thank you.

1155
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:31,000
Chair.

1156
02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:32,000
Rimer.

1157
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:34,000
Any more questions or comments on capital?

1158
02:06:34,000 --> 02:06:35,000
Nope.

1159
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:36,000
Seeing none.

1160
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:38,000
Thank you to staff for that presentation.

1161
02:06:38,000 --> 02:06:40,000
I want you to take a five minute biobrake.

1162
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:42,000
So let's come back.

1163
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:45,000
At my laptop, 715 p.m.

1164
02:07:08,000 --> 02:07:10,000
you

1165
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:40,000
you

1166
02:08:08,000 --> 02:08:10,000
you

1167
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:40,000
you

1168
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:10,000
you

1169
02:09:38,000 --> 02:09:40,000
you

1170
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:10,000
you

1171
02:10:38,000 --> 02:10:40,000
you

1172
02:11:08,000 --> 02:11:10,000
you

1173
02:11:38,000 --> 02:11:40,000
you

1174
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:10,000
you

1175
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:40,000
you

1176
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:42,000
you

1177
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:10,000
you

1178
02:13:10,000 --> 02:13:12,000
you

1179
02:13:38,000 --> 02:13:40,000
you

1180
02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:42,000
you

1181
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:44,000
you

1182
02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:46,000
you

1183
02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:48,000
you

1184
02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:49,000
alright

1185
02:13:49,000 --> 02:13:50,000
and we are back

1186
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:52,000
thanks everybody for indulging

1187
02:13:52,000 --> 02:13:54,000
our small break

1188
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:55,000
we are now going back to

1189
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:57,000
director tuna kites for part two

1190
02:13:57,000 --> 02:13:59,000
of this

1191
02:13:59,000 --> 02:14:00,000
exciting

1192
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:02,000
budget conversation

1193
02:14:02,000 --> 02:14:04,000
director tuna kites

1194
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:06,000
over to you

1195
02:14:06,000 --> 02:14:08,000
thank you

1196
02:14:08,000 --> 02:14:10,000
through you chair

1197
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:12,000
and so happy

1198
02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:14,000
someone sees my presentations as exciting

1199
02:14:14,000 --> 02:14:16,000
so next up

1200
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:18,000
the topic we want to discuss is

1201
02:14:18,000 --> 02:14:20,000
asset management and the infrastructure gap

1202
02:14:20,000 --> 02:14:24,000
so in 2025 the town completed an update of

1203
02:14:24,000 --> 02:14:26,000
asset management plans for all service areas

1204
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:30,000
which were consolidated into a corporate asset management plan

1205
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:32,000
the camp

1206
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:36,000
with council's approval of the 2025 camp

1207
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:40,000
the town has met all of the requirements of Ontario regulation

1208
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:42,000
58817 to date

1209
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:44,000
the camp provides

1210
02:14:44,000 --> 02:14:48,000
a snapshot of the state of the town's asset portfolio

1211
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:52,000
a description of the condition of the town's assets

1212
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:56,000
the recommended life cycle activities and expected service levels of service

1213
02:14:56,000 --> 02:15:00,000
a recommended financial strategy to ensure content

1214
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:19,000
So the good news there is we have been investing in our capital infrastructure. That's what we want to do. We want to keep it in a good condition. We want to have it where it's not very expensive to rehabilitate down the road and we've been doing so.

1215
02:15:19,000 --> 02:15:37,000
I will note for you that this graph below, it shows the current replacement value of the different types of the towns assets, but it does exclude the former BDSS site, which has not been incorporated into the camp pending community consultation and a future decision by council concerning the long-term plan for the site.

1216
02:15:37,000 --> 02:15:47,000
So I mean, you can see right here our largest replacement value assets are a water network and then roads, storm and sanitary sewers.

1217
02:15:47,000 --> 02:16:04,000
So when people think about what their rates are paying for when they're using their water, when they're using their sanitary sewers, it's going towards maintaining and keeping all of these assets in a good condition to provide them with clean and healthy water.

1218
02:16:04,000 --> 02:16:17,000
Lincoln, like most municipalities, has an infrastructure gap and our asset management plan highlights the importance of investing our assets at the right time to maximize the tax dollar.

1219
02:16:17,000 --> 02:16:29,000
So I would say that what director Graham was talking about about the road rehabilitation program, that's really what we were looking at between public works and finance as part of that process.

1220
02:16:29,000 --> 02:16:38,000
We don't, we want to make sure we're investing enough in the roads that they don't get to the point where it's really expensive in order to bring them back up to the level that we want.

1221
02:16:38,000 --> 02:16:55,000
So this shows an overview that over time our assets are going to cost us on average 26.3 million per year in order to maintain and replace.

1222
02:16:55,000 --> 02:17:09,000
And currently, what we have available is 8.66 million per year, so the total annual deficit or the infrastructure gap is $17.6 million per year.

1223
02:17:09,000 --> 02:17:17,000
Now as a reminder, we've looked at this slide before, these are some of the headlines from municipalities across the province and across the country.

1224
02:17:17,000 --> 02:17:45,000
We are all experiencing an infrastructure gap. This is not unique to the town of Lincoln. I would say to you that I think the reason the province in part, at least, brought forward that asset management regulation and asked municipalities to go through that exercise is to ensure that we all really look at those assets and we have a plan in place in order to fund them.

1225
02:17:45,000 --> 02:17:52,000
So I wanted to take a minute and talk about what has been happening with inflation.

1226
02:17:52,000 --> 02:18:01,000
Some people that I hear from the email me as the treasure, they would like property tax increases to be equal to the increases in the consumer price index.

1227
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:10,000
It's a very common request. The consumer price index is based on the price of a typical basket of goods and services that are purchased by households.

1228
02:18:10,000 --> 02:18:23,000
So things like groceries, clothing, housing costs, their utility costs, and from 2019 to 2025, the consumer price index increased approximately 21%.

1229
02:18:23,000 --> 02:18:31,000
Now that was from January to January. There's different ways you can calculate it from one month to another but this is a good approximation.

1230
02:18:31,000 --> 02:18:40,000
The types of goods and services purchased by a municipality are not the same as the types of goods and services that are purchased by a household.

1231
02:18:40,000 --> 02:18:48,000
The towns purchases include items like road construction, water mains, fire trucks, and snow plows.

1232
02:18:48,000 --> 02:19:02,000
So on household side, you have groceries, clothing, utilities, and housing costs on the municipal side, we have things like construction, fire trucks, snow plows, and fuel.

1233
02:19:02,000 --> 02:19:13,000
The cost of items purchased by the town has increased at a faster rate than the cost of items purchased by a typical household, and so I'm going to go through some examples.

1234
02:19:13,000 --> 02:19:30,000
Example one is a tandem truck with front and wing plow and sand sulther. In 2019, that plow would cost 297,000. In 2025, it would cost 424,000.

1235
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:43,000
So that's an increase of 43%. If we contrast that to a consumer inflation rate of 21%, if it had increased at the rate of consumer inflation, it would cost 358,000,000.

1236
02:19:43,000 --> 02:20:05,000
So I think that's part of the challenge when we're trying to explain the reason for property tax increases when we're trying to explain why the infrastructure gap has grown is that the frame of reference of most households and most people is the 21% increase in cost that they've experienced, but that's not what we're experiencing as a municipality.

1237
02:20:05,000 --> 02:20:16,000
I rearrange my example, so this is example three, but it's supposed to be example two. I realized that when I was reviewing my presentation, but the next example is a pump or rescue truck.

1238
02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:30,000
So the price of that pump or truck in 2019 was 631,000. The price in 2025 is 1.3,1 million dollars, and that is with fewer rescue components in features.

1239
02:20:30,000 --> 02:20:43,000
So that's an increase of 108%. And the reason I wanted to show the prices because I think when we say things like 108%, that's really a difficult concept for a lot of people to comprehend.

1240
02:20:43,000 --> 02:20:54,000
It sounds like maybe it's an 8% increase. 108 means more than doubled during that time. So as a reminder, consumer inflation over that same time period was 21%.

1241
02:20:54,000 --> 02:21:05,000
If the truck hit increased at that rate, it would be $762,000, but it's 1.3,1 million. So that's part of what we've been faced with.

1242
02:21:05,000 --> 02:21:17,000
That's part of what's causing that infrastructure gap to grow in a way that wasn't necessarily a result of something we did. It's a result of the situation that we're facing.

1243
02:21:17,000 --> 02:21:30,000
Another example is the 58th inch water meter, which increased 33% over that time period, where consumer inflation was 21%. We also have fire bunker gear.

1244
02:21:30,000 --> 02:21:45,000
For that period of time, it increased 100% which means the price doubled. And as a reminder, in that same time period consumer inflation was 21%. So we went through a list of items, quite a list of items,

1245
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:57,000
and then we've just summarized them here for you, but road resurfacing material sidewalks and curbing 29% to 49%. Hazard speed and stop signs 25% to 95%.

1246
02:21:57,000 --> 02:22:15,000
Extracation equipment, spreaders and cutters, 22 to 33%. Water means PVC pipes and couplers, 26 to 65% software, 59 to 480%. So some software has almost doubled in price during that time frame.

1247
02:22:15,000 --> 02:22:28,000
And the construction price index was 50% all while the consumer price index was 21%. So this is what we, not just Lincoln, this is what municipalities are contending with.

1248
02:22:28,000 --> 02:22:42,000
It's a hard conversation to have with people. We want to keep that affordability in mind, so we're always trying to balance those priorities, but this is the reality that we're faced with.

1249
02:22:42,000 --> 02:22:56,000
So the increased inflation has wide in the infrastructure gap, because now what those assets will cost us in order to maintain and replace is now a higher number than it was five or six years ago.

1250
02:22:56,000 --> 02:23:03,000
This is affecting many municipalities, and we have limited sources of funding to offset those increased costs.

1251
02:23:03,000 --> 02:23:16,000
Most of Lincoln's ongoing grant funding, such as our multi-year grants, have not kept pace with the rate of inflation. So we don't have 50% more grant funding than we had a few years ago.

1252
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:29,000
Not, sorry, and I should say those are the ongoing grants. We've had some good news on the application base grants. I'm talking about the ongoing ones that fund the replacement and rehabilitation of our assets.

1253
02:23:29,000 --> 02:23:42,000
So I shared this slide with you last year, which compared from 2022 to 2025, and it just kind of shows you during that time frame, a construction price index increasing 28%.

1254
02:23:42,000 --> 02:24:04,000
Our CCBF funding going up 12% and some of our provincial funding decreasing during that time. We have had good news about our provincial funding increasing for this year, but it does still kind of show you that it's overall those ongoing grants aren't keeping pace with our inflation.

1255
02:24:04,000 --> 02:24:17,000
So what is an infrastructure gap? This graph illustrates it. It shows that the cost of maintaining and investing in our capital assets exceed the available funding.

1256
02:24:17,000 --> 02:24:23,000
The gap existed prior to the pandemic, but it has widened due to that rapid inflation.

1257
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:33,000
So at the very top of this graph, the top line is what our asset management plan tells us our capital need is on average every year.

1258
02:24:33,000 --> 02:24:46,000
And I know it's a solid line that goes from 2020 to 2026, but I've circled 2025 because this is the year we completed it. So we knew it was there.

1259
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:57,000
We knew we had a gap. We couldn't really quantify the amount of the gap until this year. Not council, not me. We all knew it was there, but we didn't know the size of it.

1260
02:24:57,000 --> 02:25:14,000
So now we have a quantification of that gap and what do we do in response? So you can see from the graph at the bottom of the line the green line with dashes is the funding that we've been putting into it and you can see how we've been increasing it.

1261
02:25:14,000 --> 02:25:23,000
We have been putting effort into closing that gap pretty significant I would say over the last three years.

1262
02:25:23,000 --> 02:25:30,000
So when you see that green line coming up, we're trying to get that eventually all the way up to where the red line is.

1263
02:25:30,000 --> 02:25:37,000
And our asset management plan says it's going to take us 15 years. It's not something that happens overnight and that's common.

1264
02:25:37,000 --> 02:25:46,000
Okay, so that's common in a lot of places that are doing asset management plans. It's not that you can do it in one year. You do it over time.

1265
02:25:46,000 --> 02:25:56,000
And then the yellow line in the middle with the dots is what our actual spend has been over that time our budgeted numbers.

1266
02:25:56,000 --> 02:26:07,000
So you can kind of see that at points in time we were bridging that gap by taking out debt or pulling from reserves and now we're in a time of rebuilding.

1267
02:26:07,000 --> 02:26:14,000
So to the point that I made even in the earlier presentation, I said I wanted to highlight that we didn't have debt.

1268
02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:26,000
As I was driving here today and I was talking to this staff, I was saying to me this is saying like that old song to everything there is a season.

1269
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:41,000
So there's a time to build, there's a time to replenish, right? So we have that time we have been doing a lot but we also are in a time right now where we need to replenish our reserves and that doesn't mean one thing is good or bad.

1270
02:26:41,000 --> 02:26:47,000
It means this is the season that we're in right now.

1271
02:26:47,000 --> 02:26:54,000
So as a reminder, the current replacement value of the town's assets is approximately 1.56 billion.

1272
02:26:54,000 --> 02:27:02,000
89% are in fair or better condition. The vast majority of these assets must be maintained and eventually replaced.

1273
02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:18,000
We want to do this in the most cost-effective manner. Sometimes deferring work on the capital program results in higher repair and maintenance costs in the long run and so we want to invest strategically.

1274
02:27:18,000 --> 02:27:34,000
Municipalities have only a few sources of funding for capital. We have development charges for growth related, tax-levy, the rates, water, wastewater and building department and those can only fund their related costs.

1275
02:27:34,000 --> 02:27:40,000
We have grants and then we have donations and other miscellaneous revenues.

1276
02:27:40,000 --> 02:27:45,000
I want to remind that debt and reserves are tools.

1277
02:27:45,000 --> 02:27:54,000
Their tools that are used to spread out the cost of capital expenditures over multiple years but the funding sources remain the same.

1278
02:27:54,000 --> 02:27:58,000
So I'll give an example with the water rates.

1279
02:27:58,000 --> 02:28:02,000
We have three options when we need to fund something with water rates.

1280
02:28:02,000 --> 02:28:21,000
We do it in year on a pay as you go basis or you take out debt and when the principal and interest payments become due, you pay them with the water rates or you collect the water rates over time and you put them into a reserve and then you pull them out when you need the expenditure.

1281
02:28:21,000 --> 02:28:32,000
In all three of those examples, it's being funded by the water rates. It's just the tools that we use and the manner in which we choose to spread those costs over time.

1282
02:28:32,000 --> 02:28:45,000
And as I mentioned, there's a season. There's a time. There's a time to use one tool. There's a time to use another tool but that's all they are tools.

1283
02:28:45,000 --> 02:28:51,000
Lincoln's primary source of revenue like most municipalities is property tax.

1284
02:28:51,000 --> 02:28:57,000
The town has prioritized taxpayer affordability and will continue to do so.

1285
02:28:57,000 --> 02:29:06,000
And that's why we're phasing that line up with time. We're not trying to meet it in one year. We're taking steps one year at a time.

1286
02:29:06,000 --> 02:29:19,000
Like most municipalities, Lincoln has an infrastructure gap. In our asset management plan highlights the importance of investing in our assets at the right time to maximize the tax dollar.

1287
02:29:19,000 --> 02:29:27,000
Inflation, economic and other factors have increased the cost of capital works and emphasized the need to plan for the future.

1288
02:29:27,000 --> 02:29:36,000
Ensure that we're investing sufficient funds in the capital levy and capital reserve funds to maintain and replace our infrastructure as it ages.

1289
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:12,000
So this slide summarizes what we're proposing for this year. At the top, it shows you that the annual

1290
02:30:12,000 --> 02:30:19,000
levy-supported capital need according to the camp is 18.06 million. So the slide that I had showed you earlier

1291
02:30:19,000 --> 02:30:27,000
with all the assets included water and sewer, this is just property tax-supported assets. The average annual

1292
02:30:27,000 --> 02:30:37,000
spent from 2026 to 2030 in our forecast right now, which is funded by the tax-levy is 7.8 million. So that's good news.

1293
02:30:37,000 --> 02:30:49,000
We don't need to be at that 18.06 million right away, but we do need to get there with time. The average levy annual spend, over that time, after we issue

1294
02:30:49,000 --> 02:30:59,000
$4.3 million of debt, is $3 million per year. So you can see we've put a plan in place in that forecast, while we're building back up the reserve fund.

1295
02:30:59,000 --> 02:31:17,000
So the 2023 transfer to the infrastructure reserve fund, which we call the IRF, was 1.33 million. In 2024, it was 1.77 million. In 2025, it was 2.47 million. So this is where we see the progress that we've been making

1296
02:31:17,000 --> 02:31:28,000
and the proposal for 2026 is 3.12 million. Increasing the transfer to the IRF will reduce the need for debt over the long term.

1297
02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:37,000
We're putting more money towards capital infrastructure and this must continue because we need to maintain all of those assets.

1298
02:31:37,000 --> 02:31:52,000
It's important to reach a sustainable average level, regardless how much is spent in one year. So we don't want to do that pay as you go method that I said, because it results in sharp fluctuations for people.

1299
02:31:52,000 --> 02:32:06,000
We want to smooth it out every year. So the increase for the capital levy is proposed at 650,000, which is approximately a 2.5% increase on the link proportion of the property tax bill,

1300
02:32:06,000 --> 02:32:21,000
which is 0.92% of the total property tax bill, and it means approximately $56 for the average residential household with a 2025 assessed value of 385,000.

1301
02:32:21,000 --> 02:32:31,000
With that, I will turn back to where we are in the process and timeline. This is our capital budget meeting. Next week we'll meet for the operating meeting,

1302
02:32:31,000 --> 02:32:37,000
and then the 24th is the potential amendment meeting, and so I'll turn it back over to you chair.

1303
02:32:37,000 --> 02:32:46,000
Thank you, Director Tinnockitis. Before we get into questions, I just want to make note for yourself, the CAO and the comms team.

1304
02:32:46,000 --> 02:32:56,000
I think in that presentation there was a really good educational information that could really provide a lot of insight for our residents and community about the inflationary pressures.

1305
02:32:56,000 --> 02:33:09,000
And I think the timing of that messaging should be in and run the time that our release goes out as far as whatever we are not approved, but get to the ultimate decision on budget.

1306
02:33:09,000 --> 02:33:16,000
That I think that the message will be well received and provide a lot of context to some of those pressures that everybody is facing.

1307
02:33:16,000 --> 02:33:20,000
Kudos to you for putting them in there and providing us with that insight up front.

1308
02:33:20,000 --> 02:33:26,000
With that being said, we have only one person in the queue, Councillor Bernay, you are first here.

1309
02:33:26,000 --> 02:33:31,000
Yeah, thank you chair. And that is exactly what I was thinking when I was looking at those slides.

1310
02:33:31,000 --> 02:33:40,000
I thought they were really, really well done, and I think they can go a long way to kind of massaging everyone's concerns.

1311
02:33:40,000 --> 02:33:45,000
I thought they were really, really well done. That said, the infrastructure gap.

1312
02:33:45,000 --> 02:33:51,000
I'm wondering if you could go back to slide 54, I believe it was where it showed what our infrastructure gap was.

1313
02:33:51,000 --> 02:34:02,000
I believe what was it 1.56 billion.

1314
02:34:02,000 --> 02:34:09,000
Yeah, I said value.

1315
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:15,000
I think it was like 54, I wrote down when it was going through.

1316
02:34:15,000 --> 02:34:25,000
Yep, so that's okay. So understanding that everyone, like, you know, the slides were well done.

1317
02:34:25,000 --> 02:34:29,000
Everyone's dealing with this, everyone's got an infrastructure gap.

1318
02:34:29,000 --> 02:34:34,000
Everyone is trying to get as much funding as they can to offset, take it off.

1319
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:40,000
That said, it seems every time that we talk about something, we bring in a consultant.

1320
02:34:40,000 --> 02:34:44,000
At the end of the day, we do a comparison between other municipalities.

1321
02:34:44,000 --> 02:34:47,000
I understand it's not an apples to apples comparison.

1322
02:34:47,000 --> 02:34:54,000
I understand that rural versus urban, the kilometers of roads that everyone has, I understand.

1323
02:34:54,000 --> 02:35:00,000
And we heard from director Graham tonight, the PCI, we've tried to do a good job.

1324
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:03,000
We're going to back off a little bit, but he made it perfectly clear.

1325
02:35:03,000 --> 02:35:07,000
We've got to throttle it back up and you're coming in about there's a season.

1326
02:35:07,000 --> 02:35:10,000
Very well, very well pointed.

1327
02:35:10,000 --> 02:35:16,000
But my question is, can we see a comparison with what other municipalities?

1328
02:35:16,000 --> 02:35:21,000
Because I think it tells a story where some municipalities are lower than us.

1329
02:35:21,000 --> 02:35:28,000
Some are going to be high and we can point to, you know, what some of these municipalities have done and what we've done well, where we've fallen off.

1330
02:35:28,000 --> 02:35:32,000
And it's just a comparison, it seems like we do comparisons all the time.

1331
02:35:32,000 --> 02:35:40,000
I would like to see a comparison on this infrastructure gap, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are in that.

1332
02:35:40,000 --> 02:35:49,000
Through you chair to the counselor, and I mean the CAO may want to chime in as well, but I think we can work on something.

1333
02:35:49,000 --> 02:35:54,000
It's not a quick thing to do most asset management plans are public facing.

1334
02:35:54,000 --> 02:36:09,000
To your point, it isn't apples to apples, because how they might have measured exactly their current funding that's available is their asset condition based on just the life of the asset or is it actually condition based.

1335
02:36:09,000 --> 02:36:12,000
So I mean, but you spoke well, like I know you understand that.

1336
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:31,000
So I think we can come up with something for you. I don't know if we can come up with it for you before the next meeting, but we can definitely come up with something for you with the caveat that it's very hard to compare to our neighbors because we are each also unique.

1337
02:36:31,000 --> 02:36:36,000
And I know that might not be exactly the answer, but I do think it's true.

1338
02:36:36,000 --> 02:36:42,000
I'm not sure if the CAO wants to add anything, but I think I've summarized.

1339
02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:47,000
But I will look into that, I will work on something, and we'll come back to you with something.

1340
02:36:47,000 --> 02:36:49,000
Yeah, I think that's good, and I think the CAO has a comment.

1341
02:36:49,000 --> 02:36:52,000
Yeah, three of us, which are maybe just to dovetail to that.

1342
02:36:52,000 --> 02:36:54,000
Charlotte and I were talking about this earlier.

1343
02:36:54,000 --> 02:37:02,000
I think we can highlight for council what our total replacement value is, and start to, I think, compartmentalize it.

1344
02:37:02,000 --> 02:37:13,000
What's our asset condition? Because I think our asset condition to your point counselor is probably going to have more in that good category than others, which highlights the fact that this council has made some significant investments.

1345
02:37:13,000 --> 02:37:28,000
So yes, there's still going to be a gap at the end of the day, but how do we stack up where others, others, there's probably more of them that are in the fair to, fair to better, I think is the category versus good, and so I think that would be good information.

1346
02:37:28,000 --> 02:37:33,000
So we'll work to provide that as soon as we can.

1347
02:37:33,000 --> 02:37:37,000
Thank you, Councillor Renee, and again, just to give a comment.

1348
02:37:37,000 --> 02:37:44,000
I know we had this discussion, I think last term when we were trying to pull comparisons on operational costs for our municipality compared to others,

1349
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:57,000
and it is such an apples to oranges to bananas comparison, because there's no real-like municipality, again, they all have different strengths, weaknesses, and from an operation standpoint, again, those numbers were all over the board.

1350
02:37:57,000 --> 02:38:13,000
And what I thought might be something that worked, again, logically, usually didn't, and I think you probably can have a very similar situation with this as well, and it's just trying to, I guess, maybe find the best picture, but again, I'll leave it in your hands to bring some of that back.

1351
02:38:13,000 --> 02:38:15,000
Councillor McLeod, your up next.

1352
02:38:15,000 --> 02:38:16,000
Thank you very much.

1353
02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:26,000
Through you two Charlotte, just back in July, there was a fiscal report, a financial report that was presented, and there was a chart with various capital projects.

1354
02:38:26,000 --> 02:38:35,000
In progress, design and progress, just different states of those projects.

1355
02:38:35,000 --> 02:38:46,000
Some of them are like 17%, 20%, 7% all of this sort of thing, and these are all approved numbers, all approved financial commitments that we've made.

1356
02:38:46,000 --> 02:39:01,000
Do we go back and revisit some of those sorts of capital allocations or commitments and say, you know, we've only spent 7%, maybe we don't need to bother spending anymore.

1357
02:39:01,000 --> 02:39:15,000
Some of them are quite significant, some of them are relatively little, but I'm just curious if there's been a conversation amongst staff about revisiting those previously approved.

1358
02:39:15,000 --> 02:39:20,000
Um, projects or things of that nature.

1359
02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:23,000
Through you, chair to the Councillor.

1360
02:39:23,000 --> 02:39:32,000
So, one thing I would highlight is, I know it's challenging that when we bring forward a financial report, it's based on things like invoices received.

1361
02:39:32,000 --> 02:39:42,000
So that percentage is the percentage of costs that have been incurred up until that date and time, which is not necessarily always equal to the percentage of work that's complete.

1362
02:39:42,000 --> 02:39:54,000
Because sometimes there's a lag from the time that, you know, that work gets done, then it gets built to the town, you know, there's a payment certificate, it goes through a whole process.

1363
02:39:54,000 --> 02:40:02,000
So, that's one caution I would give, but in short, yes, we are always looking at things like these projects are all approved by council.

1364
02:40:02,000 --> 02:40:14,000
So, if there is a recommended change by staff, we note that in that capital appendix, which you receive for information and it would be subject to your approval.

1365
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:30,000
But if we are recommending that something be either paused or if we're recommending that something be canceled, we always note it in that report for you to make sure that you're aware and that if you had any concerns with that, you could raise it with us.

1366
02:40:30,000 --> 02:40:38,000
Most things we were brought forward for a reason, they're necessary, they might get put on hold, they might have a delay for some reason.

1367
02:40:38,000 --> 02:40:47,000
Sometimes there's a delay because of a construction period, so you're always naturally going to see a lot more through Q2 and Q3 on the capital projects.

1368
02:40:47,000 --> 02:40:57,000
But in short, yes, we're always looking and we're trying to come up with the best value and make sure that there's still things that we recommend proceeding with.

1369
02:40:58,000 --> 02:41:11,000
Okay, thank you, I just I just brought that up just because times change and so do bank balances, so do reserve balances, so do debt levels, so that's that's why I want to make sure.

1370
02:41:11,000 --> 02:41:12,000
Thanks.

1371
02:41:12,000 --> 02:41:14,000
Thank you, council. Make a quick council.

1372
02:41:15,000 --> 02:41:19,000
Thank you very much chair through you to, uh, Ms. Tunakitis.

1373
02:41:19,000 --> 02:41:28,000
I wanted to just revisit slide number, or it's 53, which is the little graph that you're showing about our capital need.

1374
02:41:28,000 --> 02:41:33,000
Where what we've been invested with the current funding, you see the one that I'm looking at.

1375
02:41:33,000 --> 02:41:43,000
I just would like to get a picture of this because I do understand that the the capital, the camp program is a provincially mandated thing prior to this.

1376
02:41:43,000 --> 02:41:54,000
A lot of municipalities didn't really do this, so as you said, there's always been an infrastructure gap, but there was never an identifiable number as to hey, this is where this is what it would cost replay something.

1377
02:41:54,000 --> 02:42:06,000
So across the province, every municipality was kind of to the little long and thinking about, you know, eventually we're going to have to pay for some of this stuff and going with and now we're all focused in a really different way.

1378
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:13,000
So I recognize that some of these, some of the gap being identified is in some ways a manufacturer challenge.

1379
02:42:13,000 --> 02:42:18,000
I would like to know what the vision is in 15 years.

1380
02:42:18,000 --> 02:42:29,000
So the comment areas is that, you know, we need to have average spent, we need to have average put into the into the bank every year so that when the big, the big bill comes up, we've got the money to do it.

1381
02:42:29,000 --> 02:42:33,000
We won't be going into debt to do what we've got the money here so that we can continue doing that.

1382
02:42:33,000 --> 02:42:41,000
So is the expectation that in 15 years, if everything goes exactly to plan, that all of our infrastructure will be covered.

1383
02:42:41,000 --> 02:42:58,000
So, you know, what one of those fire trucks that keep on increasing costs so exponentially, you know, one of them comes to end of life and we're going to buy one and we don't need to go into debt to do it because we've got the funds set up because it was part of our assets and we've managed it and now we've got money.

1384
02:42:58,000 --> 02:43:13,000
Is the future picture that we are fully funded for all of our, any of our replacement, but any, any replacement required for our assets?

1385
02:43:13,000 --> 02:43:18,000
Through you chair to the council, great question.

1386
02:43:18,000 --> 02:43:24,000
I would say from my perspective, I do think there's a time for debt.

1387
02:43:24,000 --> 02:43:40,000
What we would be working more towards is an even more strategic approach to when we use debt versus when we use reserves, because there are still going to be peaks and valleys, there are still going to be ebs and flows, even if you reach that level of say 26 million.

1388
02:43:40,000 --> 02:43:46,000
You've still been addressing the backlog that we're going to have from now till then, right?

1389
02:43:46,000 --> 02:43:56,000
And then, you're also still going to have occasionally a massive water main, for example, that needs to be fixed that you might need partial debt funding for.

1390
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:59,000
You've also got development-related projects.

1391
02:43:59,000 --> 02:44:15,000
So, those are excluded from here. Our DC projects are not in that number and sometimes DCs are well suited for debt, because typically what happens is we need to put infrastructure in the ground, then the development happens, and then the DCs are collected later.

1392
02:44:15,000 --> 02:44:39,000
So, I would say my recommendation is that the eventual plan is not to have no debt, but the eventual plan is to have more freedom to be a strategic as we want to be, and only use it for projects that we think are worthwhile, which is what we've been doing up until this point.

1393
02:44:39,000 --> 02:44:49,000
But it just gives you more freedom, more leeway to do that, and then you just continuously evaluate with time.

1394
02:44:49,000 --> 02:44:52,000
So, clarify a question if I reach.

1395
02:44:52,000 --> 02:45:00,000
So, then, if I understand you correctly, the idea would be that we're continuing to build reserves so that we have flex.

1396
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:06,200
I kind of think about personal finances, which I recognize are very different from municipal finances.

1397
02:45:06,200 --> 02:45:19,000
But the idea is, I have a home in my home is worth extra $10, and if I had to replace it tomorrow, I'd have to, my house is worth $500,000, if I had to replace it tomorrow, I'd need to have $500,000 in the bank.

1398
02:45:19,000 --> 02:45:29,000
So is it a realistic expectation that we don't have an infrastructure gap? Is that reasonable that there is no gap? Or is it more reasonable that there is a smaller gap?

1399
02:45:31,000 --> 02:45:33,000
Go ahead.

1400
02:45:33,000 --> 02:45:36,000
Through you chair to the Councillor.

1401
02:45:36,000 --> 02:45:46,000
I mean I guess what I would say up until this point is, you know, if you look at that, if you look at that graph that we had pulled up, we started increasing our contribution in 2023.

1402
02:45:46,000 --> 02:46:01,000
I didn't have that infrastructure gap number yet. I just knew that there was one, and I could look at the forecast, and I could see, you know, I could see through that what we kind of needed to be putting away.

1403
02:46:01,000 --> 02:46:11,000
So I think all of these documents are water waste water, financial plan, our DC study, we're always updating them, and our asset management plan is no different.

1404
02:46:11,000 --> 02:46:16,000
So I see your point that I don't think it's like one moment in time.

1405
02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:25,000
I think it's that you have goals that you're working towards, and that's why we're not trying to reach that limit in one year.

1406
02:46:25,000 --> 02:46:33,000
We're trying to reach it over five years and as over 15 years, I'm sorry, and as the time goes on, we'll keep evaluating that.

1407
02:46:33,000 --> 02:46:37,000
We'll keep looking at those assets, we'll keep evaluating their condition.

1408
02:46:37,000 --> 02:46:50,000
I mean, that's part of the asset management plan. It's part of why we brought a person in house to focus on asset management and GIS this year, so that we can continually have that information and evaluate it with time.

1409
02:46:50,000 --> 02:47:00,000
But I feel confident that the increases that we've done so far, and that I'm continuing to recommend are necessary, based on even just what's in the five year forecast.

1410
02:47:00,000 --> 02:47:02,000
Okay, thank you very much, Charlotte.

1411
02:47:02,000 --> 02:47:06,000
Okay, thank you, Councillor Maria, believe that CTO has a quick comment.

1412
02:47:06,000 --> 02:47:09,000
Through you, Mr. Chair, because I think it's a very good question.

1413
02:47:09,000 --> 02:47:29,000
I think the goal is in zero gap, it's actually more of a controlled gap, and so I think our goal is not to fix everything, but rather to make sure that our assets are safe, they're functional, and we can financially manage the things that are in front of us, so that we don't have failures or sudden failures or failures of infrastructure.

1414
02:47:29,000 --> 02:47:32,000
And at the same time, also don't have tax breaks.

1415
02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:48,000
So I think at the end of the day for my perspective, it is about that controlling of that gap, not necessarily ever where we'll be in a place, because I don't think it's ever financially feasible for any municipality to eliminate the gap, because we're constantly taking on new assets.

1416
02:47:48,000 --> 02:47:54,000
Whether it be through growth or otherwise, and so we have to financially plan for those assets moving forward.

1417
02:47:54,000 --> 02:48:02,000
And when I think 92% of revenue tools are provincial and federal and not municipal, that makes it very hard to close that gap.

1418
02:48:02,000 --> 02:48:10,000
So we do need to rely on senior levels of government as well to assist with that infrastructure, challenge that we all things.

1419
02:48:10,000 --> 02:48:12,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1420
02:48:12,000 --> 02:48:15,000
Okay, thank you, Mr. CTO, and Councilor Regema.

1421
02:48:15,000 --> 02:48:18,000
Thank you, Chair Russell, it's a really it's been a really interesting conversation.

1422
02:48:18,000 --> 02:48:25,000
So the question that pops into my head is, over time we talked about when we apply for funding from upper levels of government.

1423
02:48:25,000 --> 02:48:32,000
Sometimes it's taken into consideration that that municipality has a lot of money in their accounts.

1424
02:48:32,000 --> 02:48:37,000
I mean, to what extent would you say that that is taken into consideration?

1425
02:48:37,000 --> 02:48:43,000
And should we be thinking about that over time?

1426
02:48:43,000 --> 02:48:47,000
Through you, Chair to the Councillor.

1427
02:48:47,000 --> 02:49:00,000
I haven't seen it in my time that that with that municipality proactively planning financially has disadvantaged them for a grant application.

1428
02:49:00,000 --> 02:49:06,000
I think sometimes they do also look at things like the overall demographic of the community as well.

1429
02:49:06,000 --> 02:49:12,000
And so I think taking that into account and making sure we're being responsible.

1430
02:49:13,000 --> 02:49:24,000
I personally haven't seen that be disadvantageous, I'm not sure if the CAO has any other experience on that to draw from but it's not something I've seen.

1431
02:49:24,000 --> 02:49:36,000
So I think we would still be in a strong place in terms of grant applications because I think often what they're looking more as what you're looking to accomplish with that grant money.

1432
02:49:36,000 --> 02:49:39,000
Yeah, that's that's what I would say on that.

1433
02:49:40,000 --> 02:49:45,000
Thank you Mr. Chair. I think the only thing that I would add in Charlotte and I were recently talking about.

1434
02:49:45,000 --> 02:49:55,000
The recent budget or federal budget announcement and how certain funds are apportioned as well as some of the provincial funds and so ones.

1435
02:49:55,000 --> 02:50:03,000
I think Charlotte highlighted one municipality received a substantial amount of money but I think that has to do with the rural nature of it, the remote community.

1436
02:50:03,000 --> 02:50:13,000
The federal programs do prioritize or provide some enhanced funding support depending on need, depending on ability to pay fiscal capacity but they're very specific.

1437
02:50:13,000 --> 02:50:15,000
So we have heard that in the past.

1438
02:50:15,000 --> 02:50:25,000
I think oftentimes council's asked us about OSA if you've asked us about other types of programs and why our number doesn't increase or why X municipality gets more than Y municipality.

1439
02:50:25,000 --> 02:50:43,000
So some of it is that I think the ones where we apply to the larger infrastructure stimulus type programs to Charlotte's point. Yes, those don't necessarily penalize or hold us in a disadvantaged position because we have reserves that we don't have reserves.

1440
02:50:43,000 --> 02:50:47,000
I think it's about the strength of the application.

1441
02:50:47,000 --> 02:50:59,000
But there are some of those existing programs like the ones I messaged where there is priority given depending on rural composition as well as fiscal capacity.

1442
02:50:59,000 --> 02:51:00,000
Need.

1443
02:51:00,000 --> 02:51:10,000
So a little bit of both depending on which type of program need does weigh in but depending on other programs some of the larger grants we've received really is on the strength of the application.

1444
02:51:10,000 --> 02:51:14,000
Okay, something to think about. Thank you.

1445
02:51:15,000 --> 02:51:18,000
All right. Thank you. Councillor Regema and our CAO for.

1446
02:51:18,000 --> 02:51:24,000
Friendly some commentary. I see no other questions. So director Tuna Kitis. Well done. Great information.

1447
02:51:24,000 --> 02:51:27,000
Steller presentation.

1448
02:51:27,000 --> 02:51:29,000
Steller. That's right.

1449
02:51:29,000 --> 02:51:32,000
We are now going to move on to the next portion of our meeting.

1450
02:51:32,000 --> 02:51:36,000
We will bring up fire chief Hudson regarding the fire department.

1451
02:51:36,000 --> 02:51:39,000
26 budget chief Hudson. Please go ahead.

1452
02:51:45,000 --> 02:51:46,000
Thank you.

1453
02:52:02,000 --> 02:52:05,000
Good evening chair members of council.

1454
02:52:05,000 --> 02:52:08,000
I do thank you for having me here tonight.

1455
02:52:08,000 --> 02:52:19,000
I just thought that that would be a good opportunity to speak to some of the challenges that are being faced in the fire department in the budget this year coming year.

1456
02:52:19,000 --> 02:52:34,000
It's a little bit of a double tail with what director of finance is already presented and it is a little bit of our precursor to what's coming in next week in the operating budget but it's good information.

1457
02:52:34,000 --> 02:52:49,000
And I should also say too. It's a little bit of a sneak preview in terms of the fire service as we all know that we have a consultant doing a comprehensive fire service review that should be released shortly.

1458
02:52:49,000 --> 02:53:02,000
And you know that will you'll spur a number of conversations and then coming months and you know this is a little bit of a preview of some of the challenges we're facing.

1459
02:53:03,000 --> 02:53:09,000
All right. Do I control the slides or do.

1460
02:53:09,000 --> 02:53:14,000
All right. Okay. There we go.

1461
02:53:14,000 --> 02:53:17,000
All right. Just by way of a little bit of a background.

1462
02:53:17,000 --> 02:53:22,000
Of course, we have four fire stations, but 21 vehicles in that price and our fleet.

1463
02:53:22,000 --> 02:53:33,000
The whole time, 118 volunteer firefighters, some also call them paid on call and 12 on paid auxiliary firefighters.

1464
02:53:33,000 --> 02:53:41,000
I should mention that we have had a volunteer fire service in this community since 1849.

1465
02:53:41,000 --> 02:53:44,000
So over 175 years.

1466
02:53:45,000 --> 02:53:48,000
Unimputated by progress. No.

1467
02:53:48,000 --> 02:53:54,000
But it started in the village of Beamsville. We had our first organized fire department.

1468
02:53:54,000 --> 02:54:01,000
And I have to say that in a large part that same model, the same way of operating as remained unchanged since that time.

1469
02:54:01,000 --> 02:54:11,000
You know, we have had some advances in technology in terms of, you know, pages and things of that nature, but really the model remains the same.

1470
02:54:11,000 --> 02:54:20,000
So we are governed very heavily in the fire service. Of course, the primary piece of legislation is a fire protection and prevention act.

1471
02:54:20,000 --> 02:54:24,000
And it actually mandates municipalities to do a few things.

1472
02:54:24,000 --> 02:54:30,000
We're required to provide public fire state education, fire prevention.

1473
02:54:30,000 --> 02:54:39,000
And we also are required to provide fire suppression, rescue and other emergency response services in accordance with our needs and circumstances.

1474
02:54:39,000 --> 02:54:42,000
And you may ask, what are our needs and circumstances?

1475
02:54:42,000 --> 02:54:55,000
Well, that is determined through performing community risk assessments to look at the, you know, the risks in the community and how we can address those.

1476
02:54:55,000 --> 02:55:01,000
So that is very requirement by the regulations that we do those under periodic basis as well.

1477
02:55:02,000 --> 02:55:11,000
So in Lincoln, here are here's the shopping list of some of the services we're required to do.

1478
02:55:11,000 --> 02:55:18,000
And I have to say that a lot of these on the list were not in place in 1849.

1479
02:55:18,000 --> 02:55:22,000
But as you can see, it is quite extensive.

1480
02:55:22,000 --> 02:55:28,000
And to be able to perform all those, obviously, the firefighters have to be trained. That would be well equipped.

1481
02:55:28,000 --> 02:55:30,000
And they have to be prepared to do that at a moment.

1482
02:55:30,000 --> 02:55:36,000
Notice, because our painters could go off and we could get any one of these calls in five minutes from now.

1483
02:55:36,000 --> 02:55:49,000
So I should draw your attention to the fact that we do provide in terms of firefighting interior fire suppression, which means if there's a structure fire building fire.

1484
02:55:49,000 --> 02:55:59,000
We actually are trained in a quick to go into the building to rescue people, remove them and actually fight the fire from the inside and put it out to see the fire.

1485
02:55:59,000 --> 02:56:11,000
Not all fire departments do that typically smaller departments rural departments do an exterior fire attack, which basically means you stand outside with hoses and wait for the building to burn down.

1486
02:56:11,000 --> 02:56:16,000
So that's, that is really determined by the community risk.

1487
02:56:17,000 --> 02:56:22,000
So as I mentioned in order to do that, we have to be trained.

1488
02:56:22,000 --> 02:56:30,000
And back in 2022, the province came up with some mandatory firefighter training and certification requirements.

1489
02:56:30,000 --> 02:56:36,000
And you can see the extensive list of the standards that we're required to train and certified to.

1490
02:56:37,000 --> 02:56:46,000
Most of the bread and butter services we're supposed to be certified by July of this coming year, 2026.

1491
02:56:46,000 --> 02:56:54,000
And there are three specialty services, the more technical nature, the technical rescue such as.

1492
02:56:54,000 --> 02:56:59,000
High angle rescue, rope rescue, water rescue, ice rescue.

1493
02:56:59,000 --> 02:57:04,000
We have a little bit more time to get certified that's another two years hence.

1494
02:57:04,000 --> 02:57:11,000
So that as you might imagine has been quite an arduous and expensive process to get every up to speed.

1495
02:57:11,000 --> 02:57:16,000
I'm proud to say that we are a bit of a head of the curve in that for the last number of years.

1496
02:57:16,000 --> 02:57:23,000
And whenever we hire new firefighters, probably recruit fire training program has incorporated these standards.

1497
02:57:23,000 --> 02:57:29,000
So, you know, people graduating from the recruit class were certified in basically firefighting and some of those others.

1498
02:57:29,000 --> 02:57:33,000
But there are a number that we have to kind of fill in the gaps.

1499
02:57:33,000 --> 02:57:37,000
And it has been a little bit of expensive proposition to you can see.

1500
02:57:37,000 --> 02:57:44,000
In order to meet the deadline for what we need to do by July of next year, it's going to cost us.

1501
02:57:44,000 --> 02:57:50,000
And this is included in the operating budget, but $129,000 just for that alone.

1502
02:57:51,000 --> 02:58:03,000
So one of the biggest fire department budget drivers coming into 2026 is really the firefighter wages.

1503
02:58:03,000 --> 02:58:14,000
So you can see the firefighter wages over the last six years are really basically kept up with the CPI that Charlotte mentioned before.

1504
02:58:14,000 --> 02:58:20,000
Unfortunately, we've been a little over budget to in five of the past six years.

1505
02:58:20,000 --> 02:58:25,000
And if it hadn't been for COVID, we probably would have been over that year as well.

1506
02:58:25,000 --> 02:58:28,000
And I'll explain some of the reasons for that.

1507
02:58:28,000 --> 02:58:32,000
And we can see where the orange line exceeds the blue line.

1508
02:58:32,000 --> 02:58:37,000
The averages are a little bit more prevalent in the years where we have an intake of volunteer firefighters.

1509
02:58:37,000 --> 02:58:40,000
And there's quite a bit of training involved in that.

1510
02:58:40,000 --> 02:58:43,000
So that's reflected.

1511
02:58:43,000 --> 02:58:53,000
So as you can see, as I mentioned, the increase cumulatively is about 20% which is on part of the CPI over that period.

1512
02:58:53,000 --> 02:59:03,000
The problem is that our demand for service, our fire calls, have increased 55% over that same period.

1513
02:59:03,000 --> 02:59:05,000
So you can see a bit of a gap there.

1514
02:59:05,000 --> 02:59:21,000
So our call volume is exceeding the increases exceeding the, what we're getting, you know, for CPI inflation more than three times as fast.

1515
02:59:21,000 --> 02:59:26,000
And so what that means is it's, you know, there's a bit of a gap.

1516
02:59:26,000 --> 02:59:41,000
And this sustain growth underscores the need that, you know, we have to invest in our personnel and, you know, to meet that gap.

1517
02:59:41,000 --> 02:59:50,000
You can also see that, you know, with that increase in calls, that's directly to related to the pay.

1518
02:59:50,000 --> 02:59:57,000
And so as I mentioned before, you know, our CPI, our budget has been keeping part with CPI at about 20%.

1519
02:59:57,000 --> 03:00:00,000
And over the same period, obviously.

1520
03:00:02,020 --> 03:00:14,380
And it's really putting a demand on the sustainability of the volunteer fire service. So really, in a nutshell, we're being asked to do more, more complex, more calls, more time commitment by the volunteers.

1521
03:00:15,580 --> 03:00:24,760
And it's really, and as we'll see, when the fire service review comes out, you know, it's really putting a real strain on the sustainability in the long term of the volunteer fire system.

1522
03:00:27,580 --> 03:00:36,520
So in terms of fire calls, very average calculation, so when we divide the number of fire

1523
03:00:36,520 --> 03:00:45,500
calls by in 2024 by what the firefighter payroll is, that's about $155 on average per

1524
03:00:45,500 --> 03:00:52,480
call to respond, add the average truck calls of 280 per call and you can see a really rough

1525
03:00:52,480 --> 03:00:55,160
estimate every time we get called is $1,300,

1526
03:00:58,700 --> 03:01:01,680
and one of the huge drivers for us in recent

1527
03:01:01,680 --> 03:01:09,740
years are false firearms. So in 2024, we respond to 190 of them, which is now the most common

1528
03:01:09,740 --> 03:01:17,160
type of call we go to, which surprised us to pass medical calls. And so if you take that average

1529
03:01:17,160 --> 03:01:22,180
cost per call. It's costing a quarter of a million dollars to respond to false alarms.

1530
03:01:24,440 --> 03:01:28,600
And I should add that false alarms are for a number of reasons. It's not just an alarm system.

1531
03:01:28,840 --> 03:01:32,680
You know, somebody pulls the alarm or a smoke alarm or things like that. This also handles things

1532
03:01:32,680 --> 03:01:38,540
for people actually physically call 9-1-1. So I think I see a fire and turns out to be steam coming

1533
03:01:38,540 --> 03:01:44,460
over greenhouse or something like that. So there are a number of reasons for it. You know, we look at

1534
03:01:44,460 --> 03:01:49,280
things like some of these burnt toasts and set off the detector, so although that's not

1535
03:01:49,280 --> 03:01:57,260
a fire, that's a case where the fire alarm actually did its job. Detected smoke, fortunate in

1536
03:01:57,260 --> 03:02:01,220
this case, the smoke didn't grow beyond the toaster, but it's still activated in response.

1537
03:02:01,960 --> 03:02:07,140
But we also, on the other hand, were people who had that, they fed a toaster of them going

1538
03:02:07,140 --> 03:02:13,200
and left the room to go do something else, and that toaster did cause the kitchen fire.

1539
03:02:13,200 --> 03:02:16,680
So we have to be careful, though.

1540
03:02:18,220 --> 03:02:20,920
So about 50% of those false alarms are

1541
03:02:20,920 --> 03:02:25,260
I'm going to call preventable either it's the fire alarm.

1542
03:02:25,280 --> 03:02:27,120
Equipment was not maintained properly.

1543
03:02:27,800 --> 03:02:29,000
It was malicious false alarms.

1544
03:02:29,020 --> 03:02:33,340
Some of these pull the pull station or things like when somebody

1545
03:02:33,340 --> 03:02:36,160
has a fire drill or they're working on the alarm system.

1546
03:02:36,480 --> 03:02:41,160
They don't notify the alarm company and we get called out.

1547
03:02:41,160 --> 03:02:42,860
the lows are absolutely preventable.

1548
03:02:44,340 --> 03:02:50,560
So we do have, and we have had for a number of years, a false alarm fee by-law, so we

1549
03:02:50,560 --> 03:02:52,840
are able to charge for certain false alarms.

1550
03:02:54,720 --> 03:02:58,380
Currently we have what we call a first call as free policy.

1551
03:03:01,080 --> 03:03:07,260
So that in place, that means about 20 less than 25% of false alarms we go to are really eligible

1552
03:03:07,260 --> 03:03:08,240
to be available.

1553
03:03:09,680 --> 03:03:16,780
And so, in an attempt to kind of get this number down, we have proposed in the 2026

1554
03:03:17,600 --> 03:03:24,360
Feason charges of structure and some increased charges and removal of the first call

1555
03:03:24,360 --> 03:03:29,400
free for certain fossil arms such as if somebody a technician goes and works on the

1556
03:03:29,400 --> 03:03:33,100
fossil arm and doesn't call us. That's absolutely preventable and they shouldn't get a free

1557
03:03:33,100 --> 03:03:38,920
for that. So we're looking at that to just try to recoup some of those costs.

1558
03:03:40,260 --> 03:03:49,460
Now, the huge driver for us is response to the QEW because QEW is provincial land.

1559
03:03:51,160 --> 03:03:57,500
Really, our responses aren't really covered by municipal taxes. So we're able to recoup

1560
03:03:57,500 --> 03:04:04,960
cost through the province through the MTO fire department invoicing program. Unfortunately, we only

1561
03:04:04,960 --> 03:04:15,100
get a fraction of what we should from the MTO. So as an example, 140,000 roughly claimed in 2024

1562
03:04:15,100 --> 03:04:27,480
for the 97 calls we had, but our actual costs were over 180,000. So even if we got 100% of the

1563
03:04:27,480 --> 03:04:35,380
As you can see from the graph, in the last 20-24, particularly the bad word, we only made 36% of the claims.

1564
03:04:38,540 --> 03:04:51,860
Really, in 2024, do that shortfall. It costs taxpayers of Lincoln, but $132,000 on a pocket for the privilege of going to the QW and providing municipal service on a provincial road.

1565
03:04:52,660 --> 03:04:59,840
And some of the reasons why the MTO does not pay something they just flatly deny the claims

1566
03:04:59,840 --> 03:05:05,620
or they reduce the claims as they see fit, probably the biggest reason is what they term

1567
03:05:05,620 --> 03:05:11,760
of no service call, so if we get called out for somebody's report of the car fire and we

1568
03:05:11,760 --> 03:05:19,540
go out there and we say, well it's not actually a fire, it's an overheated rad, and we have

1569
03:05:19,540 --> 03:05:26,800
We've incurred costs to go out there, but the MTO denies those claims in Southern Ontario.

1570
03:05:27,220 --> 03:05:34,400
They do allow those claims in Northern Ontario and that's another story, but there are moves

1571
03:05:34,400 --> 03:05:41,820
of foot to, you know, lobby the province to address that and there's, you know, initiatives underway

1572
03:05:41,820 --> 03:05:43,840
to try to address that as we speak.

1573
03:05:46,940 --> 03:05:51,420
Another one of our huge drivers is the vehicle operating cost.

1574
03:05:52,880 --> 03:05:57,900
You know, over that past five years, a little bit of a smaller subset here.

1575
03:05:58,340 --> 03:06:04,040
The CPI was 17% increase in operating costs for fire vehicles.

1576
03:06:04,780 --> 03:06:06,640
We're talking maintenance fuel.

1577
03:06:06,920 --> 03:06:11,240
That kind of thing has increased 39% so more than twice the rate of inflation.

1578
03:06:12,800 --> 03:06:19,780
And on top of that, it's taking us longer to get replacement parts, so our fire trucks

1579
03:06:19,780 --> 03:06:27,580
or equipment is on the service longer, some of the supply chain issues that occurred during

1580
03:06:27,580 --> 03:06:30,100
COVID really haven't bounced back to normal fully.

1581
03:06:30,800 --> 03:06:36,880
And this is consistent with an American report on the American Transportation Research Institute

1582
03:06:38,140 --> 03:06:44,860
It's similar in Canada, where they're seeing what close to a 38% increase as well.

1583
03:06:48,230 --> 03:06:53,610
So I mentioned, you know, we've been volunteer fire service for over 175 years.

1584
03:06:55,470 --> 03:06:58,510
And while I say volunteer, a lot of people really don't realize how that works.

1585
03:07:01,450 --> 03:07:07,510
So really when somebody signs up to be a volunteer fire fire, whether it's in Lincoln or most other place in Ontario.

1586
03:07:07,510 --> 03:07:16,470
So nowadays everybody gets a pager, so they're on call 24, 7, 365 days a year.

1587
03:07:16,770 --> 03:07:18,030
They're always on call.

1588
03:07:18,410 --> 03:07:20,990
They don't get paid standby, they don't do anything.

1589
03:07:21,570 --> 03:07:22,930
They're just always on call.

1590
03:07:23,250 --> 03:07:26,510
Now obviously people have lives, so they have to go to work.

1591
03:07:27,170 --> 03:07:30,330
They have family functions and things like that.

1592
03:07:30,330 --> 03:07:40,850
So we count on the volunteer firefighters being available about 25% of the time to go to calls.

1593
03:07:42,030 --> 03:07:45,010
The problem is, as the number of calls increase,

1594
03:07:49,050 --> 03:07:53,790
the rule of thumb is once you hit a call a day on average,

1595
03:07:55,110 --> 03:08:03,190
You're really, really burdening a volunteer system and we're 850 to 900 calls for pushing.

1596
03:08:03,630 --> 03:08:13,230
So we're well above twice that and you know if you can talk to some of the volunteers, it'd be nice if it was just an average of one call or two calls a day.

1597
03:08:13,470 --> 03:08:15,530
But of course, never works that way.

1598
03:08:15,690 --> 03:08:23,770
You'll go for a few days and all of a sudden you're called out four or five, six calls in a day and if your employer is gracious enough to allow you to

1599
03:08:23,770 --> 03:08:30,170
to go to calls, they do raise their eyebrows when somebody is leaving their desk four or five

1600
03:08:30,170 --> 03:08:37,810
or six calls a day. In fact that's just not sustainable. So although we had counted on a response

1601
03:08:37,810 --> 03:08:46,250
rate of 25% for our volunteers, that is really, really tough nowadays to get. And you can see

1602
03:08:46,250 --> 03:08:51,610
some of the challenges we're facing, not just on in Lincoln, but all across Ontario and

1603
03:08:51,610 --> 03:08:59,330
row Canada, just the numbers of volunteer firefighting fighters are just declining.

1604
03:09:00,130 --> 03:09:05,450
It just seems people just simply don't have the time or the ability to do this anymore

1605
03:09:05,450 --> 03:09:06,850
and meet the demands.

1606
03:09:07,770 --> 03:09:11,910
As I mentioned, the number of calls and the complexity of the calls is increasing.

1607
03:09:12,510 --> 03:09:17,490
You know, I look at a typical rope rescue calls, say, balls, falls, and that can take

1608
03:09:17,490 --> 03:09:24,810
hours, and you or any kind of a major structure fire is a very complex, very dangerous call.

1609
03:09:25,170 --> 03:09:28,410
It just takes a lot of huge amount of training, a huge commitment.

1610
03:09:29,770 --> 03:09:35,050
As I mentioned, training is sort of a patient requirements, and I see over fellow firefighters

1611
03:09:35,050 --> 03:09:42,390
in the audience, he happened to start the same day I did back in 1988, and I think back

1612
03:09:42,390 --> 03:09:46,950
fondly where we showed up on the Tuesday night, here's your boots, the alarm went off,

1613
03:09:46,950 --> 03:09:50,470
OK, getting a truck go, we had no idea what we're doing.

1614
03:09:51,930 --> 03:09:52,990
Was a lot of fun back then?

1615
03:09:53,310 --> 03:09:53,430
Yes.

1616
03:09:54,130 --> 03:09:56,510
But did that meet health and safety?

1617
03:09:57,370 --> 03:10:01,470
Did it meet community expectations for performance?

1618
03:10:02,150 --> 03:10:02,410
Absolutely not.

1619
03:10:02,730 --> 03:10:05,790
So I'm happy to see where we've made great strides.

1620
03:10:05,830 --> 03:10:09,230
Keep people safe to ensure that people go home at the end of the day.

1621
03:10:09,470 --> 03:10:12,130
But that comes at a cost, not only in terms of money,

1622
03:10:12,170 --> 03:10:15,210
but commitment for the volunteer firefighters.

1623
03:10:15,210 --> 03:10:20,750
And again, like anything, you know, the increased call volume, the increased demands on their

1624
03:10:20,750 --> 03:10:21,270
time.

1625
03:10:21,630 --> 03:10:24,610
It takes a toll in terms of the work-life balance.

1626
03:10:27,790 --> 03:10:34,190
And the other thing we're finding too is quite often volunteer firefighters and Lincoln was

1627
03:10:34,190 --> 03:10:34,710
the same way.

1628
03:10:34,790 --> 03:10:40,290
A lot of people lived in the community that they served and, you know, I'd look at a lot

1629
03:10:40,290 --> 03:10:44,890
of the farm people and things like that, the alarm would go off, they were in town, they

1630
03:10:44,890 --> 03:10:46,670
could just respond to the call.

1631
03:10:47,030 --> 03:10:49,550
We're seeing more and more as town changes and grows.

1632
03:10:50,090 --> 03:10:51,790
We're seeing less and a lot more people

1633
03:10:51,790 --> 03:10:53,530
are working out of town, so.

1634
03:10:59,850 --> 03:11:01,470
So just for context,

1635
03:11:03,810 --> 03:11:05,970
so link and volunteer

1636
03:11:05,970 --> 03:11:10,410
system on the left-hand side there, 24, 7, 3, 65 service.

1637
03:11:10,610 --> 03:11:16,390
We have 15 front-run appraisers, 118 NFP certified

1638
03:11:16,390 --> 03:11:26,410
firefighters, and so our budget for wages and benefits for that entire service

1639
03:11:26,410 --> 03:11:30,930
there. You can see 1.4 million and you can see the picture there while that all

1640
03:11:30,930 --> 03:11:31,350
entails.

1641
03:11:33,530 --> 03:11:39,310
For context you look at one full-time fire truck, that's four firefighters on

1642
03:11:39,310 --> 03:11:48,630
truck with wages and benefits that is 3.4 million dollars to staff that on a 24-hour basis.

1643
03:11:50,010 --> 03:11:57,350
So you can see the tremendous value we have in our volunteer system and the importance

1644
03:11:57,350 --> 03:12:00,890
it is to sustain a volunteer system as long as we can.

1645
03:12:01,850 --> 03:12:07,970
I think if I had a crystal ball it, my years of experience says we're pushing the limits

1646
03:12:07,970 --> 03:12:14,150
when entirely volunteer system likely will be next year, perhaps not the year after that,

1647
03:12:14,350 --> 03:12:20,910
but sometime in the next little while we'll be looking possibly at at least a full-time

1648
03:12:20,910 --> 03:12:26,210
contingent maybe to start during the, you know, a shift during the daytime hours to help

1649
03:12:26,210 --> 03:12:34,290
us hold, but I think the parting words here, if I may, is the investment to sustain the volunteer

1650
03:12:34,290 --> 03:12:39,830
system for as long as we can, really is the most cost-efficient and the most effective

1651
03:12:39,830 --> 03:12:41,670
delivery of service to the community.

1652
03:12:43,010 --> 03:12:48,950
And with that, I'm happy to add it to any questions, so thank you, Chief Hudson.

1653
03:12:50,190 --> 03:12:52,730
We are going to go to Councillor Murray for first question.

1654
03:12:53,190 --> 03:12:53,490
Go ahead, Councillor.

1655
03:12:53,790 --> 03:12:56,650
Thank you very much, Chair, through you to Chief Hudson.

1656
03:12:56,850 --> 03:12:58,950
Thank you very much for the presentation, really good information.

1657
03:12:59,490 --> 03:13:04,270
I will say that today was taken to work day, and I took my grand-kid to work, and we

1658
03:13:04,270 --> 03:13:06,230
had a tour of the Beamsel Fire Station.

1659
03:13:07,610 --> 03:13:10,390
It's quite a place, and I know the work you do that.

1660
03:13:10,410 --> 03:13:12,090
You guys do, there is very, very important.

1661
03:13:12,310 --> 03:13:13,150
So thank you for that.

1662
03:13:13,630 --> 03:13:15,150
I just wanted a little bit of clarity.

1663
03:13:15,210 --> 03:13:23,010
I know that you have attended Amel and Roma, and you, as well as other fire chiefs, have

1664
03:13:23,010 --> 03:13:24,470
advocated to the province.

1665
03:13:24,970 --> 03:13:29,770
As they're continuing to increase the mandated services, as they're continuing to increase

1666
03:13:29,770 --> 03:13:34,110
the mandated training that they're requiring of fire services, is there any

1667
03:13:34,110 --> 03:13:39,770
conversations happening around them also increasing funding, so not through taxpayers, but

1668
03:13:39,770 --> 03:13:44,870
like the municipal tax base, but through provincial funding, is there any conversations around

1669
03:13:44,870 --> 03:13:46,250
that?

1670
03:13:46,870 --> 03:13:49,930
Yeah, through you, Mr. Chair, yeah, thank you for that question.

1671
03:13:50,250 --> 03:13:50,730
Absolutely.

1672
03:13:51,230 --> 03:13:55,850
This is something that we've been advocating very strongly for because every municipality on

1673
03:13:55,850 --> 03:14:01,030
Ontario and beyond is facing exactly the same budget crunches.

1674
03:14:01,910 --> 03:14:04,910
I'm happy to say that the province has been listening.

1675
03:14:05,550 --> 03:14:10,470
The last two years we've had a fire protection grant to start,

1676
03:14:10,590 --> 03:14:13,750
at least getting some funds rolling from the province towards

1677
03:14:15,250 --> 03:14:18,010
the Ms. Pola delivery fire protection services.

1678
03:14:20,730 --> 03:14:25,830
The grants last year in this year as well, the two phases of the grants

1679
03:14:25,830 --> 03:14:29,170
have focused on firefighter safety, cancer prevention,

1680
03:14:29,550 --> 03:14:30,250
things of that nature.

1681
03:14:30,250 --> 03:14:35,850
So they really have put their focus on, you know, the most critical point, you know, we

1682
03:14:35,850 --> 03:14:40,290
continue to advocate, you know, it's really, you know, we talked about infrastructure gaps

1683
03:14:40,290 --> 03:14:43,890
and funding gaps, you know, certainly in the fire service, we have a gap here as well.

1684
03:14:44,070 --> 03:14:51,190
And we continue to advocate to help municipal fire departments, you know, meet the shortfalls

1685
03:14:51,190 --> 03:14:56,590
and because you're absolutely right, you know, not that I begrudge having provincial certification,

1686
03:14:56,590 --> 03:14:59,110
I do think it's a good thing, but that was enacted.

1687
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:09,000
With no funding whatsoever from the province, and I know there's a lot of smaller municipalities in particular that really struggle with some of the costs associated with that.

1688
03:15:09,720 --> 03:15:24,400
So, yes, so, you know, I remember on the Ontario Association of Fire Chiefs, you know, from a provincial level, there's a huge opportunity to see and govern relations component to that, and we continue to work and try to get some provincial dollars.

1689
03:15:24,400 --> 03:15:31,900
Thank you. Another question if I could. So then you also note significant increase in demand.

1690
03:15:33,420 --> 03:15:40,100
And I know you also see some of that is false alarms and other challenges are people who don't necessarily,

1691
03:15:40,500 --> 03:15:46,500
you're not used to seeing brush fires. They're not from the countries so they're not used to seeing those sorts of things. I understand that.

1692
03:15:46,500 --> 03:15:49,600
But what else is driving that increased demand?

1693
03:15:49,800 --> 03:15:51,840
Is it that we are growing as a municipal?

1694
03:15:52,100 --> 03:15:55,260
Is it the increased housing that we're seeing

1695
03:15:55,260 --> 03:15:57,140
in that's driving that increased demand?

1696
03:15:57,240 --> 03:15:58,740
Or is there something else at work here?

1697
03:15:59,880 --> 03:16:01,840
I thank you through Mr. Chair.

1698
03:16:01,960 --> 03:16:03,160
That's an excellent question.

1699
03:16:03,520 --> 03:16:06,280
And that is something we're looking at as well.

1700
03:16:06,360 --> 03:16:09,340
I think it's a bit of a number of things.

1701
03:16:09,500 --> 03:16:13,020
Certainly it's a function of the population growth.

1702
03:16:13,020 --> 03:16:18,140
It's a function of some, I'm going to say,

1703
03:16:18,300 --> 03:16:20,120
Darius, I change in demographic.

1704
03:16:24,530 --> 03:16:26,830
You know, I look at some of the expectations,

1705
03:16:26,990 --> 03:16:31,190
some of the demands that are placed on the fire service now.

1706
03:16:32,150 --> 03:16:35,350
I think are greater than what we saw maybe some years ago.

1707
03:16:35,930 --> 03:16:39,970
And I'm going to use the term perhaps people in years gone past

1708
03:16:39,970 --> 03:16:41,970
or maybe a little bit more self-reliant.

1709
03:16:44,230 --> 03:16:49,810
I think of things like somebody hears a smoke alarm beeping so rather than take the trouble

1710
03:16:49,810 --> 03:16:54,610
to check your own responding to a smoke alarm and say, oh, he's a new battery.

1711
03:16:55,290 --> 03:16:59,990
Well, that's called a fire department and you know, not that we regret going and helping

1712
03:16:59,990 --> 03:17:00,450
the public.

1713
03:17:00,890 --> 03:17:06,270
But I think there's more and more cases of that where there's expectations, where the fire

1714
03:17:06,270 --> 03:17:15,390
services going to come and provide service no matter what the situation is, you know,

1715
03:17:15,610 --> 03:17:19,430
and in terms of, you know, there's certainly growth in terms of additional people coming

1716
03:17:19,430 --> 03:17:26,530
in additional housing, but part of this too is as the density increases to that puts a whole

1717
03:17:26,530 --> 03:17:33,690
different fire risk profile and play as well. So it's not necessarily more fires, although it

1718
03:17:33,690 --> 03:17:39,630
we'd have to run some more statistics as the fires we do get tend to spread faster and even

1719
03:17:39,630 --> 03:17:45,130
more resources and things of that nature. So I guess that's a long way, long winter way of

1720
03:17:45,130 --> 03:17:55,230
saying that it takes a lot more study, it takes a lot more ticking over the rocks and seeing

1721
03:17:55,230 --> 03:17:59,590
some of the root causes of some of this. And that's something that we're undertaking now.

1722
03:17:59,590 --> 03:18:05,750
You know, the SPIR service review we're doing is, you know, one of the first steps in looking at that.

1723
03:18:06,890 --> 03:18:12,110
Great. And my final question if I could. So you mentioned the MTO and the fact that as a

1724
03:18:12,110 --> 03:18:17,370
little service, you can you can claim money back from the MTO, which they don't very often like to give you.

1725
03:18:17,510 --> 03:18:22,230
It's my understanding that you can also go after insurance companies. So if there is a car accident on the highway

1726
03:18:22,230 --> 03:18:27,090
that you respond to, you can go after insurance companies. Do you see a lot of reimbursement for insurance companies?

1727
03:18:27,090 --> 03:18:30,670
is that similar to the MTO, that it's a struggle to get that payment?

1728
03:18:31,710 --> 03:18:41,690
I can say that we do have in our recent charges by the ability to build drivers for motor vehicle

1729
03:18:41,690 --> 03:18:43,190
collisions on local roads.

1730
03:18:43,530 --> 03:18:50,230
We typically build the non-residents, and although we've had it on the books for a couple

1731
03:18:50,230 --> 03:18:55,130
years now, it's just this year we've actually had the resource to be able to start that,

1732
03:18:55,130 --> 03:18:59,790
And I can say it's very, very labor intensive to collect that.

1733
03:19:00,870 --> 03:19:04,950
And you know, I've had this conversation with my colleagues in finance, you are core service

1734
03:19:04,950 --> 03:19:08,390
and fire services, you know, going to calls and providing emergency services.

1735
03:19:09,430 --> 03:19:15,150
We're fighting more and more of our time is now devoted to accounts receivable, and that's

1736
03:19:15,150 --> 03:19:19,950
not really our core service, so we're still trying to figure out some of the logistics involved

1737
03:19:19,950 --> 03:19:25,110
in that, but it is, although we do, we have been getting significant revenue from it,

1738
03:19:25,110 --> 03:19:31,430
It throws a cost in terms of resources and people to do it, so.

1739
03:19:31,610 --> 03:19:32,570
Thank you very much.

1740
03:19:32,770 --> 03:19:33,070
Thank you, Chair.

1741
03:19:33,390 --> 03:19:34,290
Thank you, Councillor Murray.

1742
03:19:34,590 --> 03:19:35,550
And we have Councillor Ray FX.

1743
03:19:36,450 --> 03:19:38,530
Yeah, thank you, Chair Russell.

1744
03:19:40,050 --> 03:19:41,450
So, Chief, thanks for the presentation.

1745
03:19:44,170 --> 03:19:47,670
It's quite a daunting presentation that goes way beyond this budget.

1746
03:19:48,030 --> 03:19:51,690
I mean, I think for the first time in my years as a Councillor,

1747
03:19:51,690 --> 03:19:58,230
I'm hearing from you from a chief that's been around for 37 years that the pressures that we're

1748
03:19:58,230 --> 03:20:05,810
feeling and that we're feeling is a municipality are getting to a bit of a breaking point in such

1749
03:20:05,810 --> 03:20:12,810
that the volunteer system is in jeopardy in some way, shape, or form. So I look at all the things

1750
03:20:12,810 --> 03:20:19,830
you put up there, the calls are the call volumes increasing by 55%. And while that's happening,

1751
03:20:19,830 --> 03:20:25,750
you know, you're looking for a response rate for your 118 volunteers, but that's increasing.

1752
03:20:28,450 --> 03:20:36,770
So what can we do as a volunteer system right now to look at the way that we do things?

1753
03:20:37,030 --> 03:20:42,470
And so through you chair, my first question, you know, when we look at response to the highway,

1754
03:20:43,250 --> 03:20:47,710
and I would never suggest for a nanosecond that we stop going out there.

1755
03:20:47,710 --> 03:20:55,130
But you just have to go on the highway yesterday. I'm driving a Burlington and there's a five car pile-up at Fruitland Road in a four car pile-up at 50

1756
03:20:55,830 --> 03:20:57,450
These things are increasing

1757
03:20:58,050 --> 03:21:03,810
What can we do as a volunteer system in terms of the way we dispatch the way we

1758
03:21:04,530 --> 03:21:08,570
You know the way we do our call outs. It's a volunteer system obviously

1759
03:21:09,190 --> 03:21:16,230
You know, there's an expense when we get out there and and is there any way we can look internally to

1760
03:21:17,550 --> 03:21:22,450
You know, just the system that we, you know, you can't always do things the same way.

1761
03:21:22,950 --> 03:21:29,150
So I'm wondering as, as, as, as the MTO callouts continue to increase and we're not getting,

1762
03:21:29,370 --> 03:21:30,750
you know, we're not getting in return.

1763
03:21:31,390 --> 03:21:34,890
Is there any way internally we can look at the way we do our process?

1764
03:21:36,890 --> 03:21:42,090
Okay, through you, Mr. Chair, absolutely, that's one of the things we're focusing on.

1765
03:21:42,110 --> 03:21:47,030
I think back, you know, four years ago when we embarked on this shared service,

1766
03:21:47,030 --> 03:21:54,310
pilot with grumpsby. And I think the primary reason for doing that is to address some of the

1767
03:21:54,310 --> 03:21:59,390
issues you just raised in the Council are seeing increased levels of service. We can't continue

1768
03:21:59,390 --> 03:22:07,970
to do the same thing over and over again. So I think some of the thinking there is if we

1769
03:22:07,970 --> 03:22:13,870
get together with the Department can we do some things more efficiently. Whether or not that

1770
03:22:13,870 --> 03:22:22,110
with successful or not is a debate for another day, but through that process, though, I will

1771
03:22:22,110 --> 03:22:29,990
say to the good, is that we have the benefit of a study that's going to be released very shortly

1772
03:22:29,990 --> 03:22:37,510
that looks at some of these things and setting some KPIs, some key performance indicators that

1773
03:22:37,510 --> 03:22:43,990
we can actually measure so we can make some informed decisions. We're looking at the types of calls

1774
03:22:43,990 --> 03:22:50,570
we go to. And what kind of resources do we actually need for that? So rather than just shotgun,

1775
03:22:50,830 --> 03:22:55,250
see, you know, shotgun approach, you send everybody to everything, and not that we necessarily

1776
03:22:55,250 --> 03:23:00,190
do that. But to drill down a little bit further, so we look at the risk involved in the different

1777
03:23:00,190 --> 03:23:04,810
types of calls we go to. Are there types of calls we really don't need to go to that could

1778
03:23:04,810 --> 03:23:08,990
be better handled by another agency? For instance, right off the top of my head, I think

1779
03:23:08,990 --> 03:23:11,790
of fireworks complaints, you know, every year we get

1780
03:23:11,790 --> 03:23:16,510
anfo fireworks complaints come to the fire department, you know,

1781
03:23:16,670 --> 03:23:21,550
it's, to me it's a bit of a, not the most effective use of our

1782
03:23:21,550 --> 03:23:26,450
resources from that because it's, it's really a nuisance by law

1783
03:23:26,450 --> 03:23:29,990
complaint by the time the fire trucks get there, the fireworks are

1784
03:23:29,990 --> 03:23:33,190
long gone and unless they've somebody's actually started a fire

1785
03:23:33,190 --> 03:23:38,250
with the fireworks, that's not necessarily the best agency to, to respond

1786
03:23:38,250 --> 03:23:43,730
of that type of call. That's just one example off the top of the head and yeah, it's really

1787
03:23:43,730 --> 03:23:50,450
like I said, it's going through the list of things we do, what do we need to do, of the things

1788
03:23:50,450 --> 03:23:57,610
we do need to do, how do we best match our resources that we're deploying to the risk we anticipate.

1789
03:23:58,270 --> 03:24:06,230
And as you'll hear in the next few months, we'll be spending particular focus on looking into

1790
03:24:06,230 --> 03:24:10,450
that delving in that, there would be some recommendations coming down the pipe in the coming

1791
03:24:10,450 --> 03:24:17,970
months as we try to evolve and try to address these challenges, we'll be before Council

1792
03:24:17,970 --> 03:24:19,770
for it.

1793
03:24:19,790 --> 03:24:25,430
But in terms of your comic about, you know, you're bringing all this stuff forward in a budget

1794
03:24:25,430 --> 03:24:26,030
season.

1795
03:24:26,710 --> 03:24:33,310
And really, the main reason for that is because, as you see this particular year, there

1796
03:24:33,310 --> 03:24:39,030
some significant increases in the fire budget in terms of the firefighter wages, and I think

1797
03:24:39,030 --> 03:24:49,230
it was important to identify these are the reasons why it's not that, you know, here's

1798
03:24:49,230 --> 03:24:54,270
the reasons why, and just trying to, you know, inform council about, you know, some of the

1799
03:24:54,270 --> 03:24:58,910
pressures we're facing, so when we're looking at the budget, it's more of an informed decision,

1800
03:25:00,070 --> 03:25:07,930
And looking at further future budgets too, having this in the back, you know, this is kind of setting the stage for the next few years as well.

1801
03:25:09,270 --> 03:25:10,910
And I appreciate that.

1802
03:25:11,610 --> 03:25:18,350
And I really like to hear the fact that you're looking, moving forward, looking at KPIs, looking at metrics, so that we can improve.

1803
03:25:19,110 --> 03:25:27,690
So through you chair, you know, this is all good stuff, but it's a little overwhelming to think that, you know, these pressures are being put on us.

1804
03:25:27,690 --> 03:25:37,410
So, you know, your last bullet point on the bottom of your slide in bold red was it's important for this council to continue to make investments.

1805
03:25:38,190 --> 03:25:42,650
And I think, I mean as long as I've been on council for three terms, I think we've done that.

1806
03:25:43,110 --> 03:25:49,830
And I think, you know, there is a responsibility to make sure that our volunteer system can be sustainable.

1807
03:25:50,690 --> 03:25:55,850
But when I look at all the things that are happening and the fact that this is a big

1808
03:25:55,850 --> 03:26:02,070
budget driver now, we talk about policing, but now fire in Lincoln is a big budget driver.

1809
03:26:03,330 --> 03:26:08,910
So how can we, we always talk about communication, talking about surveys and talking about

1810
03:26:08,910 --> 03:26:10,250
all this stuff?

1811
03:26:11,310 --> 03:26:17,430
I look at the way other municipalities communicate what fire does.

1812
03:26:17,430 --> 03:26:25,050
And I was on the website today for the town of Nagorno Lake, and I see that every month, they put up,

1813
03:26:25,170 --> 03:26:29,030
I think they call it a dashboard, and I know you used to use it at Tormont.

1814
03:26:29,710 --> 03:26:33,130
And it's a pretty valuable tool to communicate to residents.

1815
03:26:34,170 --> 03:26:37,830
This particular one is an example, 85 incidents in the month of August.

1816
03:26:38,350 --> 03:26:46,270
Six fire calls, 29 fire alarm, 16 medical calls, 12 motor vehicle, six gas carbon, and 16 assistants.

1817
03:26:46,270 --> 03:26:53,590
and that goes out every month and I think if we could do that it would be a great way for

1818
03:26:53,590 --> 03:26:59,470
this council to support the fire department but to demonstrate to our residents this is why we're

1819
03:26:59,470 --> 03:27:04,750
investing and this is what's happening I mean sure people go see when the fire trucks go out

1820
03:27:04,750 --> 03:27:12,910
and they follow along and oh it's just a gas or you know a brush fire but these calls are real

1821
03:27:12,910 --> 03:27:15,750
And you guys are out in the highway in the middle of the night with JAWS on a life.

1822
03:27:16,470 --> 03:27:20,270
I think if we can, I don't know, through you,

1823
03:27:20,450 --> 03:27:23,590
chair to the chief, I'm wondering what your thoughts on that.

1824
03:27:24,070 --> 03:27:28,150
If this, if this is a tool that we can be using,

1825
03:27:28,850 --> 03:27:31,710
to make sure that our investment is better understood in the community.

1826
03:27:32,650 --> 03:27:35,710
Through Mr. Chair, you know, Councilor I couldn't agree more with you.

1827
03:27:36,290 --> 03:27:40,390
I absolutely think it's important to communicate, you know, exactly what you're said.

1828
03:27:40,390 --> 03:27:54,310
We did move to a different a new software provider for fire records management called first do and first do actually we've just recently implemented and we're just doing testing on a forward facing

1829
03:27:54,310 --> 03:28:02,690
a community facing dashboard similar to Nagron like it so it's not quite up and ready yet but we're working on it we're working on some bugs but

1830
03:28:02,690 --> 03:28:07,630
that is certainly one of the top things on our work plan is to get that.

1831
03:28:07,630 --> 03:28:18,630
And again, this dub tails into what I was just saying about the KPIs as well, and our ability to collect this information and put it in, you know, a user friendly graphical format that it's.

1832
03:28:19,290 --> 03:28:21,870
You know, very easy to get to from our website.

1833
03:28:23,510 --> 03:28:31,930
I, again, I agree a wholeheartedly that we should be doing this and, you know, we are committed to doing that and flushing this a little bit more.

1834
03:28:33,470 --> 03:29:03,450
Thank you. Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that response and it sounds very positive, but I'm wondering through you, Chair, if the CAO can maybe, you know, put it put an endorsement on that. I think this is really really important and, you know, I don't know when the chief is walking out the door and, and Sianaro and I'm out of here, but I, you know, I'm, you're retiring and I want to make sure that, you know, this is a commitment that the municipality can,

1835
03:29:03,450 --> 03:29:07,230
and can support through you, through your chair to the CEO.

1836
03:29:07,930 --> 03:29:09,930
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks for the opportunity to weigh in.

1837
03:29:10,070 --> 03:29:12,930
I just also looked up what Niagara on the lake is doing,

1838
03:29:13,030 --> 03:29:20,510
and I know both director, D&N, and manager, Lilliana, over there.

1839
03:29:20,510 --> 03:29:23,570
Also, I think looking up what you were talking about right now,

1840
03:29:23,650 --> 03:29:27,550
and so I think, absolutely, I love the ease and user interface

1841
03:29:27,550 --> 03:29:28,610
that they've got.

1842
03:29:28,730 --> 03:29:30,490
There's both a GIS back side to it,

1843
03:29:30,490 --> 03:29:34,410
But there's also a very public facing visual piece to it.

1844
03:29:34,850 --> 03:29:37,430
And I think it is a large budget driver.

1845
03:29:37,630 --> 03:29:41,870
I think residents would benefit from knowing the types of calls we go to and what we're

1846
03:29:41,870 --> 03:29:42,450
actually doing.

1847
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:06,160
All right, so absolutely something that I will work on both with communications as well as the chief.

1848
03:30:07,970 --> 03:30:12,370
Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the opportunity and I just want to thank Chief Hudson for this presentation.

1849
03:30:12,610 --> 03:30:18,150
I think it was really well done. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Grenay and Councillor Petrieva.

1850
03:30:21,360 --> 03:30:27,380
Thank you, Chair Russell. Chief Hudson, thank you very much for this question. First question.

1851
03:30:28,380 --> 03:30:36,440
And a couple years ago, you came to AMO with us and we advocated for a change in the emergency measures act with the run-of-stay of emergency.

1852
03:30:37,100 --> 03:30:51,960
So knowing that the MTO is short-changing us and that, do you think that we, you know, this year at AMO, this should be one of the delegations that we go to to the Ministry of Transportation to say,

1853
03:30:51,960 --> 03:30:56,320
Hey, pay us for what you owe and stop the neckland diamond.

1854
03:30:58,430 --> 03:31:00,070
Thank you, I thank you, Mr. Chair.

1855
03:31:00,490 --> 03:31:02,470
You know, I've had conversations with the CEO

1856
03:31:02,470 --> 03:31:03,630
on this very topic.

1857
03:31:04,350 --> 03:31:07,010
Certainly, Amos, a possible venue.

1858
03:31:07,170 --> 03:31:10,050
We were also talking about possibly Roma as well,

1859
03:31:10,230 --> 03:31:10,350
coming up.

1860
03:31:11,030 --> 03:31:15,570
Yeah, Roma, Amos, just keep hammering away at it, right?

1861
03:31:17,090 --> 03:31:20,470
Every opportunity we get to reinforce the message

1862
03:31:20,470 --> 03:31:33,430
And drive it home, like, you know, this imbalance that they paid Northern Ontario Firefighting Services for this and not the South, that's, yeah, it's called Essing and Being.

1863
03:31:34,390 --> 03:31:36,450
Second question through the chair.

1864
03:31:37,850 --> 03:31:42,470
Thank you so much again for slide number 12.

1865
03:31:44,270 --> 03:31:48,650
And this was the whole rationale behind the shared fire service.

1866
03:31:48,650 --> 03:31:54,990
is this slide right here and I know our council got it right when we did the

1867
03:31:54,990 --> 03:32:01,150
interview but and I would really really appreciate that this slide gets attached

1868
03:32:01,150 --> 03:32:07,090
to that December 3rd report when it comes out to show grimsby council the

1869
03:32:07,090 --> 03:32:15,230
misstep or falley of their ways that this is going to cost them dearly because of

1870
03:32:15,230 --> 03:32:20,390
of the pettiness so I'm going to stop right there because I can go on for about 20 minutes, but

1871
03:32:20,390 --> 03:32:21,470
Good idea

1872
03:32:23,330 --> 03:32:25,910
Thank you, Councillor Pachary of our Councillor McClick.

1873
03:32:30,100 --> 03:32:32,720
Thank you very much through you to the chief

1874
03:32:33,640 --> 03:32:36,120
Appreciate that you know count both Councillor

1875
03:32:36,740 --> 03:32:43,020
I dream of myself and the mayor familiar with this fire and the expensive at all and the complexities of it

1876
03:32:43,020 --> 03:32:44,560
being on that board

1877
03:32:45,100 --> 03:32:46,800
question I have is like

1878
03:32:46,800 --> 03:32:56,080
When I look here, a total response cost per call, 1335, does the public know this?

1879
03:32:56,400 --> 03:33:04,900
Are they just calling 911 because it's free and they think that, you know, firefighters

1880
03:33:04,900 --> 03:33:07,820
are just sitting around waiting for a call?

1881
03:33:08,340 --> 03:33:15,060
I, along the lines of the communication piece, I think that if people knew it was costing

1882
03:33:15,060 --> 03:33:21,200
them if they saw these sorts of numbers that hey listen you call 911 because your neighbor's

1883
03:33:21,200 --> 03:33:27,240
trash cans on fire it's going to cost 14 on a rock. They might think twice about making that

1884
03:33:27,240 --> 03:33:32,220
call. Do we do any sort of education program on that?

1885
03:33:34,430 --> 03:33:39,280
A three-master chair probably not as much

1886
03:33:39,280 --> 03:33:45,160
as we should but you're absolutely right. There are things and I think this comes back to the education

1887
03:33:45,160 --> 03:33:48,920
some peace, or possibly some sort of a dashboard, or something of that nature.

1888
03:33:51,340 --> 03:33:57,340
Frankly, I think some people would be concerned, and I think some people wouldn't care

1889
03:33:57,340 --> 03:33:58,200
to eye pay taxes.

1890
03:33:58,600 --> 03:34:00,680
I want to get my very truck when I call my fire truck.

1891
03:34:01,380 --> 03:34:07,160
But I think the point is well taken, I think, although we don't want to dissuade people

1892
03:34:07,160 --> 03:34:15,080
from calling in case it is a real emergency, we're trying to steal a sense of fiscal responsibility

1893
03:34:15,080 --> 03:34:23,360
I guess you'd call it to say, hey, you know, if it's something that's not in emergency, maybe there's a better way of handling it.

1894
03:34:24,040 --> 03:34:30,900
So it's a bit of a tough one, but yeah, I think through education through, whether it's the dashboard or by other means.

1895
03:34:32,200 --> 03:34:37,600
But even this number, I think, you're right, I don't think a lot of people would even know what this number was.

1896
03:34:37,640 --> 03:34:42,120
So if we were even a public set number, it's $1300 and some odd dollars per call.

1897
03:34:42,880 --> 03:34:48,520
Yeah, I had just no consumer gas back in the day used to have a slogan called Before You

1898
03:34:48,520 --> 03:34:48,940
Dig.

1899
03:34:49,260 --> 03:34:54,180
You know, maybe we think before you call it like you try to decide for ourselves what sort

1900
03:34:54,180 --> 03:34:55,780
of an emergency is really an emergency.

1901
03:34:56,180 --> 03:35:00,200
And I look at the ambulance service, you know, if you get, if you call an ambulance, you're

1902
03:35:00,200 --> 03:35:02,500
paying $45 no matter what.

1903
03:35:03,760 --> 03:35:06,800
Do we move to that in the fire service as well?

1904
03:35:07,120 --> 03:35:11,660
I can tell you to be widely on popular, I don't know if I want to go down that road, but,

1905
03:35:11,660 --> 03:35:14,900
You know, as we continue with the face sees budget challenges,

1906
03:35:15,140 --> 03:35:17,520
you know, we look at different models, I don't know,

1907
03:35:19,120 --> 03:35:20,360
it's interesting to answer.

1908
03:35:21,080 --> 03:35:22,700
Another question I had through is,

1909
03:35:23,620 --> 03:35:30,780
when I look at the one slide with slide five with the COVID,

1910
03:35:31,340 --> 03:35:33,320
right, there is a reduction in calls,

1911
03:35:33,940 --> 03:35:36,840
or there's a suspension of certain medical calls during COVID.

1912
03:35:37,860 --> 03:35:38,680
I'm just curious,

1913
03:35:42,600 --> 03:35:43,140
what effects,

1914
03:35:43,140 --> 03:35:48,560
What negative effects might have, did we, did we observe during that time?

1915
03:35:48,840 --> 03:35:51,760
Did we, or did we observe any negative effects of that?

1916
03:35:52,220 --> 03:35:57,660
During that time, normally we respond to medical assistance calls

1917
03:35:57,660 --> 03:35:59,580
to assist the ambulance of medical calls.

1918
03:36:00,160 --> 03:36:05,400
During COVID, Nagrams suspended their Turing Criteria.

1919
03:36:05,620 --> 03:36:08,480
So we would not go to most medical calls,

1920
03:36:08,480 --> 03:36:10,180
unless it was absolutely serious.

1921
03:36:10,660 --> 03:36:14,760
Part of that was to protect the health of the responders

1922
03:36:14,760 --> 03:36:16,740
we did, Mono Explos, firefighters going

1923
03:36:16,740 --> 03:36:19,560
to difficulty breathing calls and then catching COVID

1924
03:36:19,560 --> 03:36:22,180
and that has a whole other thing.

1925
03:36:23,080 --> 03:36:25,320
So the COVID years were a bit of a two-fold,

1926
03:36:25,380 --> 03:36:26,880
so we suspended a lot of training.

1927
03:36:29,060 --> 03:36:34,120
And we suspended a number of medical calls,

1928
03:36:34,160 --> 03:36:36,940
like I said, our our terrain criteria was modified.

1929
03:36:36,940 --> 03:36:46,980
And the other piece, too, was I don't know if you recall, but I can think of times where there was virtually no traffic whatsoever on the QEW.

1930
03:36:47,260 --> 03:36:52,820
People just weren't driving the work, they weren't commuting, so our MVCs were down quite significantly.

1931
03:36:54,960 --> 03:37:06,920
I understand all that. I think a lot of calls are medical calls, and I'm not sure, I'm trying to understand what the consequences were with respect to that particular piece.

1932
03:37:06,920 --> 03:37:14,560
and a possible reduction of deploying one or two fire trucks for a medical call.

1933
03:37:15,420 --> 03:37:22,380
And a third question, and it kind of winds back to like the calls and firefighter fatigue,

1934
03:37:23,280 --> 03:37:33,060
and how do we, when it's 1,400, how firefighters know how many volunteers are paid on call,

1935
03:37:33,060 --> 03:37:40,760
long tears are attending racing to the hall and I ask that question because I happen to be

1936
03:37:40,760 --> 03:37:45,660
in Ottawa visiting my brother and he sits on a volunteer fire department and he has an

1937
03:37:45,660 --> 03:37:51,860
app on his phone and I guess it's called who's responding or something like that.

1938
03:37:52,380 --> 03:37:58,260
I asked him I said wow and it tells him exactly who's going and what kind of call and

1939
03:37:58,260 --> 03:38:04,420
everything like that. He says it's a company in Brockville and it's nice because he knows

1940
03:38:04,420 --> 03:38:09,700
that four guys or five guys or five people or five women or whatever are showing up

1941
03:38:09,700 --> 03:38:17,980
to a call and he can decide whether or not he skips out of the dinner table or makes that

1942
03:38:17,980 --> 03:38:24,200
extra effort to go and possibly reducing like 10 or 12 people showing up for a call that

1943
03:38:24,200 --> 03:38:30,440
required four or five. Do we, are we looking at something like that? So we've had that system

1944
03:38:30,440 --> 03:38:35,560
for quite some time. It's called iron responding. It's the one we use very similar. The problem

1945
03:38:35,560 --> 03:38:41,680
with that is not everybody uses it. Not everybody has their phone with them at all times.

1946
03:38:42,040 --> 03:38:48,520
You are our primary way of alerting people through a pager and depending on, you know, if you're

1947
03:38:48,520 --> 03:38:53,540
on the tractor or whatever, you might not have your phone on you. And then there are simply some

1948
03:38:53,540 --> 03:38:59,400
people digital, it's not convenient to, they're not technically savvy enough to want to use it.

1949
03:39:00,500 --> 03:39:05,460
So it is used to a limited extent and it is helpful for, I'm going to say, the first trucker

1950
03:39:05,460 --> 03:39:10,740
too, but it's never 100% accurate depiction of how many people are responding.

1951
03:39:11,620 --> 03:39:16,520
So, again, I'm not sure, I just, it's just something that he experiences and he says

1952
03:39:16,520 --> 03:39:17,120
it's fantastic.

1953
03:39:17,120 --> 03:39:22,460
I have cell service as well as the two-way radio service and I can see exactly

1954
03:39:23,380 --> 03:39:28,300
it's real time. So that was just something I learned that I'm not sure.

1955
03:39:28,720 --> 03:39:32,560
I'm sure. Yeah. Can I give a word? I'd love for everybody to use it. Yeah.

1956
03:39:32,880 --> 03:39:36,620
Because there's certainly all the time, but that's just not the practical reality at this point.

1957
03:39:36,900 --> 03:39:41,260
So yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor McLean. I'm just glad your last question

1958
03:39:41,260 --> 03:39:46,060
wasn't going to go to a call time during the Spanish flu. So I'll go ahead. Councillor

1959
03:39:46,060 --> 03:39:46,500
I'm a Gemma.

1960
03:39:46,740 --> 03:39:47,180
Up next.

1961
03:39:52,570 --> 03:39:53,090
Councillor Rimer.

1962
03:39:53,350 --> 03:39:53,970
Up next.

1963
03:39:59,290 --> 03:39:59,730
Councillor Regema.

1964
03:39:59,950 --> 03:40:00,470
Back up again.

1965
03:40:00,590 --> 03:40:01,210
Thank you.

1966
03:40:01,950 --> 03:40:02,590
Thank you.

1967
03:40:02,810 --> 03:40:02,890
Thank you, sir.

1968
03:40:05,830 --> 03:40:06,910
Thank you for your presentation.

1969
03:40:07,470 --> 03:40:14,250
Thank you for all of for the complete presentation and allowing us to give all this thought

1970
03:40:14,250 --> 03:40:19,850
to things before the operating budget and for years to come.

1971
03:40:21,250 --> 03:40:25,170
So my question is similar to what Councillor Mikkelik was talking about and about the dashboard

1972
03:40:26,470 --> 03:40:31,190
So you mentioned that some people call because their battery is going off and they're a smoke detector.

1973
03:40:31,450 --> 03:40:35,510
That's a, you know, probably an example of one that, you know, you don't need to go to,

1974
03:40:35,510 --> 03:40:38,250
you've got a lot on your plate, your whole team has a lot on your plate.

1975
03:40:39,550 --> 03:40:48,330
Education is its prevention and it also prevents, I mean, it prevents fires and it also prevents unnecessary calls.

1976
03:40:51,330 --> 03:40:56,870
How do you feel in terms of your ability to, do you have the resources that you need?

1977
03:40:57,210 --> 03:41:02,350
You and your team to provide enough education to the public, for example, things like that.

1978
03:41:03,410 --> 03:41:07,270
If the fire alarm is beeping, it doesn't mean that it's a fire alarm.

1979
03:41:07,490 --> 03:41:09,370
If it's a fire alarm, you'll know it.

1980
03:41:11,740 --> 03:41:18,620
Through Mr. Chair, a great question, because every fire we can prevent through prevention efforts,

1981
03:41:18,620 --> 03:41:22,540
through public education is one, less we have to respond to.

1982
03:41:22,840 --> 03:41:29,200
It's a lot more cost-effective to send a fire prevention officer, to help out with some

1983
03:41:29,200 --> 03:41:32,500
bad or prevention or helping somebody with their smoke clamp.

1984
03:41:33,540 --> 03:41:40,220
So when I say recommending that you invest in the service and invest in the volunteers,

1985
03:41:40,480 --> 03:41:48,540
I think part of that could be, as we continue to grow, not only investing in the response,

1986
03:41:48,540 --> 03:41:54,580
part of that, but investing in our fire prevention, our public education, pieces of the department

1987
03:41:54,580 --> 03:42:00,320
too. And, you know, this is why some of the key performance indicators are so important

1988
03:42:00,320 --> 03:42:07,660
where we can start tracking some of these things. So if we implement some sort of a prevention

1989
03:42:07,660 --> 03:42:13,780
program, or a public education initiative, we can actually measure, you know, all the fact

1990
03:42:13,780 --> 03:42:19,620
of was that have we can we blitz the neighborhood with smoke alarms and we can kind of track

1991
03:42:19,620 --> 03:42:23,920
calls before and after we do that. Things like that. Other municipalities are doing that and

1992
03:42:23,920 --> 03:42:28,580
I know there's some pretty neat software tools using JAS that people can actually do eat maps

1993
03:42:28,580 --> 03:42:36,020
of the city to marry up some of the smoke alarm check programs versus how many calls they get in

1994
03:42:36,020 --> 03:42:41,540
that same neighborhood and so yeah they are working so we're trying to move towards that so yeah

1995
03:42:41,540 --> 03:42:48,540
So an investment in prevention and PubMed really is a good thing and it helps to kind of mitigate

1996
03:42:48,540 --> 03:42:50,180
some of these increase in calls.

1997
03:42:51,080 --> 03:42:51,580
I could see that.

1998
03:42:51,960 --> 03:42:52,280
Okay.

1999
03:42:52,340 --> 03:42:53,140
Thank you for that.

2000
03:42:53,940 --> 03:42:54,540
Thank you.

2001
03:42:55,260 --> 03:42:55,520
Thank you.

2002
03:42:55,840 --> 03:42:56,700
Councilor Ranjama.

2003
03:42:57,440 --> 03:42:58,180
Vice Chair Rhymer.

2004
03:42:58,240 --> 03:42:59,600
We put a bow on this.

2005
03:43:03,580 --> 03:43:05,980
I'm not good with bows, but I'll do my best.

2006
03:43:07,780 --> 03:43:08,220
Thank you, Chair.

2007
03:43:08,980 --> 03:43:09,300
Thanks.

2008
03:43:09,660 --> 03:43:10,040
Chief for this.

2009
03:43:10,060 --> 03:43:12,420
Thanks for taking the time for this report.

2010
03:43:13,240 --> 03:43:19,160
and bringing it, not bringing it to our attention, but I think reminding us and giving us a marker.

2011
03:43:20,140 --> 03:43:28,580
In time, slide 11, this one question or sort of one thought Safari, maybe.

2012
03:43:30,000 --> 03:43:35,640
Slide 11, you go through the challenges facing volunteer fire services and the recruitment.

2013
03:43:35,640 --> 03:43:45,880
And I want to focus on the retention part of it having growing up here and knowing a lot of the men and women on the volunteer service.

2014
03:43:46,440 --> 03:43:59,600
How do you, in your experience or are there other things that we can besides more money and more training to help with retention?

2015
03:43:59,600 --> 03:44:10,620
Not that that's the only thing, but I think it's one of the key things like is there is there a bridge something between volunteer fire service and and and full-time fire service that you can go to or is there a

2016
03:44:10,620 --> 03:44:17,560
I know there's some you know communities that black too, but I I just that the retention time to one is that you see the retention part is is a I think is a big

2017
03:44:18,280 --> 03:44:24,520
Factor is there something that you can add or that we that you could say this is something we could use to help retain

2018
03:44:25,040 --> 03:44:28,360
young men and women in our volunteer service through you chair

2019
03:44:30,700 --> 03:44:34,320
Thank you Mr. Chair. Yes, this is actually a

2020
03:44:37,140 --> 03:44:46,890
fairly complex topic. You know, we're talking about how do we motivate people and we're finding that, you know, everybody's got different motivations.

2021
03:44:47,150 --> 03:44:57,050
We have different generations involved in, you know, what motivates one particular group of individuals doesn't necessarily motivate the others. Some are very focused on, you know,

2022
03:44:58,470 --> 03:44:59,970
Reuneration, monetary, and crewboard.

2023
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:18,460
We're saying to that, although we're facing people leaving and we're dealing with the retention, Lincoln is actually doing fairly well comparatively, we use the lose about 5% of our workforce through attrition and people moving on, going elsewhere.

2024
03:45:18,920 --> 03:45:23,140
That's actually a relatively low number in terms of volunteer fire service.

2025
03:45:23,140 --> 03:45:29,900
I know a lot of departments are on a terror that, you know, they're double digits easily every year they lose.

2026
03:45:30,960 --> 03:45:37,180
So, so, we're doing, obviously, something right could we improve, obviously.

2027
03:45:38,420 --> 03:45:44,540
And, you know, I look at, you know, the recognition and awards night that council presents every year.

2028
03:45:44,620 --> 03:45:50,520
I think that goes a long way to recognize, you know, the contributions our folks have.

2029
03:45:50,520 --> 03:45:57,080
I know that's really appreciated, and as we look at the budget every year and we're looking

2030
03:45:57,080 --> 03:46:01,780
at must-have, we want to have needs to have things like that, I know it's always a struggle

2031
03:46:01,780 --> 03:46:07,260
to keep things in the budget and fortunately we've been able to keep that in and I think

2032
03:46:07,260 --> 03:46:12,160
it's really important in terms of investing in our service and investing in the folks we

2033
03:46:12,160 --> 03:46:12,600
have.

2034
03:46:12,860 --> 03:46:19,280
So things like that are there other things that we can do to keep people, as I say, you know,

2035
03:46:19,280 --> 03:46:26,160
you know, I've heard people throw things, you know, is there benefits, are there pension opportunities,

2036
03:46:27,040 --> 03:46:28,340
you know, whole gamut of things.

2037
03:46:28,540 --> 03:46:33,400
And I think that's something that really needs a lot more study, you know, some stakeholders

2038
03:46:33,400 --> 03:46:38,560
are engagement with some of the people and just, you know, see what really motivates you

2039
03:46:38,560 --> 03:46:43,120
and why do you stay, having exit interviews with people at least and say, you know,

2040
03:46:43,900 --> 03:46:46,460
can you explain, you know, what's going on, why are you leaving?

2041
03:46:46,460 --> 03:46:53,540
because you're busy in life, so we're engaging in all those things, but until we get 100%

2042
03:46:53,540 --> 03:46:57,200
retention all the time and everybody's happy, there's always room for improvement.

2043
03:46:58,780 --> 03:46:59,660
Thank you, Chief.

2044
03:47:00,120 --> 03:47:01,040
Thank you, Cheryl.

2045
03:47:01,940 --> 03:47:02,920
Thank you, Mr. Vice-chair.

2046
03:47:03,060 --> 03:47:03,680
Thank you, Chief.

2047
03:47:03,880 --> 03:47:07,880
I've had that in-depth presentation and great Q&A.

2048
03:47:09,340 --> 03:47:12,360
Just remind everybody to log back into EQ, in case you have not.

2049
03:47:13,260 --> 03:47:14,340
We have the vote coming up.

2050
03:47:14,340 --> 03:47:19,080
There are no further discussions. I have a motion moved by Councillor Pachareva, the committee receiving

2051
03:47:19,080 --> 03:47:25,560
file for information report FN-12-25 and associated presentation regarding the 2026 capital budget.

2052
03:47:26,500 --> 03:47:28,780
I will now ask our clerk to open the vote.

2053
03:47:31,970 --> 03:47:34,450
Thanks, Chair. And the vote is now open.

2054
03:47:41,260 --> 03:47:43,740
Thank you. And I will close that vote.

2055
03:47:45,180 --> 03:47:46,260
That carries, Chair.

2056
03:47:46,980 --> 03:47:50,260
Thank you, Madam Clerk. We have no confidential items.

2057
03:47:50,260 --> 03:48:00,520
do we have any committee remarks seeing none? Just a reminder before we adjourn that, oh, we do.

2058
03:48:00,960 --> 03:48:03,260
All right. Okay, Mayor Easton up first.

2059
03:48:04,440 --> 03:48:12,260
Very much Mr. Chairman. I want to thank Council for their comprehensive questions this evening.

2060
03:48:12,260 --> 03:48:21,580
And I have made a few notes based on concerns and potential suggestions.

2061
03:48:23,040 --> 03:48:33,600
Also, I also made a list of making a list for a little while about additions that may be an impact on the operating budget.

2062
03:48:33,600 --> 03:48:49,300
So my only ask of you would be if you can remember what you've said because it is a very normal response to potentially make a suggestion to increase service level.

2063
03:48:50,900 --> 03:48:59,240
I'm not sure what we're going to do with those because the CAO has been really tearing this operating budget apart.

2064
03:48:59,240 --> 03:49:21,220
So we may have to have another discussion the next time we meet on the operating budget, and if you want those things to be considered, I believe we need to do that with the understanding that we need to understand that there is no flex in the system and there will be less flex in the system next year.

2065
03:49:21,220 --> 03:49:29,360
So we need to go into the operating discussion with that knowledge so that we know where to put our

2066
03:49:29,360 --> 03:49:36,680
Put our ducks if there's something that's really really important and that is my only comment leaving off for the next meeting Mr. Chairman

2067
03:49:36,680 --> 03:49:37,700
Thank you

2068
03:49:38,320 --> 03:49:39,580
Thank you madam mayor

2069
03:49:39,580 --> 03:49:41,160
I can answer today

2070
03:49:43,980 --> 03:49:45,600
so through you

2071
03:49:46,340 --> 03:49:51,920
I think I think that's a great point by by Madam mayor and I know it's her budget, but

2072
03:49:53,160 --> 03:49:59,960
There was no discussion, it's in the binder, there was no discussion whatsoever with regards

2073
03:49:59,960 --> 03:50:01,120
to BDSS.

2074
03:50:01,560 --> 03:50:05,880
So I'm assuming that there's going to be considerable discussion, you know, considering this

2075
03:50:05,880 --> 03:50:09,120
is probably one of the biggest legacy projects we have in front of us.

2076
03:50:09,760 --> 03:50:10,580
I'm just wondering,

2077
03:50:12,700 --> 03:50:15,940
so based on what the mayor is saying, that if we're coming here with

2078
03:50:15,940 --> 03:50:22,460
operating, you know, questions that are going to flex the system. I'm just wondering

2079
03:50:22,460 --> 03:50:28,440
through you, through you chair, if the CAO could maybe give us some insight into what

2080
03:50:28,440 --> 03:50:33,340
we might be hearing with regards to BDSS as we go into November the 12th because I think

2081
03:50:33,340 --> 03:50:39,560
it's important that we come prepared, you know, knowing what we've been told by the

2082
03:50:39,560 --> 03:50:41,280
work that there's some deadlines.

2083
03:50:43,300 --> 03:50:47,540
So, before you jump on, Michelle, again, just a reminder that after the 12th, there is still

2084
03:50:47,540 --> 03:50:52,320
an opportunity for amendments going into a potential meeting for the 24th, where you can

2085
03:50:52,320 --> 03:50:55,040
make amendments based on that discussion at the 12th.

2086
03:50:55,320 --> 03:50:56,380
But, Michelle, go ahead.

2087
03:50:57,700 --> 03:50:58,460
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2088
03:50:59,460 --> 03:50:59,880
Yeah, absolutely.

2089
03:50:59,960 --> 03:51:04,020
I think we can be prepared to answer more questions or maybe provide council more information.

2090
03:51:04,620 --> 03:51:09,040
Obviously, there's an increase cost as it relates to some of the janitorial maintenance,

2091
03:51:09,040 --> 03:51:16,360
building supplies, programs supplies, and insurance, year one, we absolutely use it our best

2092
03:51:16,360 --> 03:51:20,880
estimate. We used a lot of the information that the school board provided us, but knowing

2093
03:51:20,880 --> 03:51:25,360
that the school didn't operate at the same way as the municipality operates, both in terms

2094
03:51:25,360 --> 03:51:31,680
of hours of operation, after hours, and so forth. We can definitely give council a little

2095
03:51:31,680 --> 03:51:36,340
bit of that information and bring you up to speed, I think, a little bit, and it is in

2096
03:51:36,780 --> 03:51:41,740
presentation when we discuss operating a little bit in terms of where we're at what we've

2097
03:51:41,740 --> 03:51:48,460
heard, what are the next steps, some of the internal work we want to do, some of the work

2098
03:51:48,460 --> 03:51:53,520
we want to do with Council in terms of setting up a small working group. So yeah, I can definitely

2099
03:51:53,520 --> 03:52:04,140
be in a position to share more of that come the 12th. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor

2100
03:52:04,140 --> 03:52:09,600
process. So obviously we have a deadline coming up of this Friday, November the 7th,

2101
03:52:09,600 --> 03:52:14,000
for the next submission of amendments. They could be related to capital. They could be proactive

2102
03:52:14,000 --> 03:52:20,680
related to operations. They would then be positioned at that November the 12th meeting,

2103
03:52:21,720 --> 03:52:27,500
where we will review and discern what they're not, they would get voted on or not. And then

2104
03:52:27,500 --> 03:52:32,700
there's still an opportunity. If need be for the following meeting, if there is requirement

2105
03:52:32,700 --> 03:52:39,660
on the 24th. So deadlines for that as well. So if you have any questions about that process,

2106
03:52:39,880 --> 03:52:43,320
again, please reach out to the Courts Department or Director Tuna Kitis. They can fill

2107
03:52:43,320 --> 03:52:49,640
it some more information or assist with any templates being filled out. I see no further questions.

2108
03:52:50,160 --> 03:53:00,580
So I'm going to call this meeting adjourned at 20 hours and 57 minutes. That's correct.

2109
03:53:00,580 --> 03:53:01,440
Not a bear.

2110
03:53:03,180 --> 03:53:03,620
Okay.