[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] We should get at a time as we go.
[0:05] It's a question if you don't have time, whether it be an option at another point in time.
[0:11] Yeah, so no matter what the audience can use, if you're looking at your agenda items four and five, or if you want to like to come up and address the council, what Mrs. Referring to is.
[0:21] Sometimes if we have a little extra time as we're addressing issues like 6a, 6b, 6c, if we have
[0:28] a little extra time we'll invite the public to come up and comment in real time if we have
[0:33] time to do that. So, we'll go with that. So, cameras are on. Council has exit of executive
[0:39] session at 6-10 and speaking of the next item on our agenda is audience participation in response
[0:45] for agenda item. So, if anybody from the community has something that they would like to comment
[0:50] on the agenda. The podium is open. Come on up. I'm going to keep the time on my phone and I'll try to be very
[0:58] courteous and letting you know that's three minutes.
[1:02] So,
[1:03] anybody has anything that they'd like to comment on this on today's agenda?
[1:09] Good evening folks.
[1:15] You stay your name. State your name. My name. Thank you. I'm Bob Miller. I live at 51 Winner Street.
[1:21] I want to just continue to discuss the free-to-law's project, and I understand that you've
[1:31] just concluded an executive session with the town attorney regarding the Winner Street
[1:35] Project.
[1:37] I know that legal council rightly focuses on risk mitigation.
[1:42] I expect that unless of that discussion centered on the threat of developer litigation
[1:46] or potential damages that the town might incur.
[1:50] However, we must also ensure that the risk assessment balances potential legal friction
[1:56] against the long-term guaranteed liabilities of Lisbon taxpayers.
[2:03] Elper's lawsuit is a temporary legal hurdle in contrast, unbudgeted expansion of our schools,
[2:10] increased strain to our first responders, and infrastructure where our permanent decade-long
[2:16] burdens.
[2:17] That's our elected officials, your primary fiducial, judiciary duty to protect the public
[2:24] from those permanent costs.
[2:27] Excuse me.
[2:28] We know the developer has withdrawn their planning board application due to funding issues
[2:32] and is currently restructuring.
[2:35] We also know this project can proceed on a smaller scale without the town's land grant.
[2:40] The shift changes the landscape entirely, and we the public need clear answers to three specific questions tonight.
[2:49] First, if the developer returns with a restructured proposal where the land grant is not needed,
[2:57] but it was contained a community center, will the town be obligated to convey municipal land under the agreement that is currently in place?
[3:05] One of the determining factors that will trigger a detransfer is it simply the community center.
[3:13] We need to clarify if this land transfer is truly an necessity for the project or if it become an unnecessary public subsidy.
[3:24] Second, if the developer submits a revised proposal, now that excludes a land grant,
[3:30] But in tends to return with a phase two later,
[3:34] does the original agreement remain valid and available to them?
[3:39] And then three,
[3:42] we've been told that the land authorization
[3:43] is not tied strictly to the specific project
[3:46] designed previous council that originally voted on.
[3:50] Does it therefore remain open indefinitely?
[3:54] What is the exact expiration criteria
[3:56] or data that authorization.
[4:01] Municipal assets cannot remain tied up indefinitely for a project that is fundamentally changed.
[4:07] Because the original concept is no longer moving forward,
[4:11] the authorization associated with it should formally expire.
[4:16] Hoping that a counselor will place an item on the next agenda,
[4:19] The vote on officially sun setting,
[4:23] resending the win or straight win and authorization,
[4:26] ensuring a clean slate for any future proposals.
[4:30] Thank you.
[4:33] I think you should be getting the answers to all three of your questions
[4:36] when we do get to six E.
[4:39] Okay.
[4:39] Thank you.
[4:42] If anybody else would like to share comment on items on today's agenda,
[4:45] the podium is open.
[4:46] My
[4:53] name is Justin Niesol. I'm a great nephew of Daniel Niesol, one of the three property on 142 redrode.
[5:02] I was his guardian towards the end of his life for the last month of his life,
[5:05] and I have petitioned to become his personal representative and manage his estate.
[5:11] I understand that the property has been managed by my father for the 30 years,
[5:16] and that there is none of the property and that you guys would like to clean up the property.
[5:22] I've come to the town a few times to express that.
[5:25] I have the funds to clean up the property and that I have a plan to get excavators and dumpsters in there.
[5:30] But right now, well, it's in Provee.
[5:32] The Provee has not granted me any permissions to move anything or to spend any funds.
[5:38] I do have the funds to clean it up and it means in a timely fashion.
[5:42] What I'm granted that?
[5:45] But I mean, I just put my own phone in the ground, we just had this elevation in life a week ago.
[5:51] I'm requesting that you guys give me a little more time and not use the taxpayer's dollars when I have the funds and the means to clean up the property.
[6:01] That pop is been our family for a long time and I would like to keep it that way.
[6:05] And I also want to work with the town and I just want the perception of that land and our family to change.
[6:10] and it's only been under management for me for one month and I was taken away and I've
[6:16] done a lot in that time to clean up the property and to do everything I can to comply with
[6:20] court orders. It seems like since I've become the new power attorney, I've received a lot of
[6:27] forwarded emails and packets from the lawyers, the lawyers, you know, pressing it to sell the
[6:33] property. I didn't have the authority to do that at the time. I still do not. I have, I've called
[6:39] probably yesterday they still haven't issued me a hearing date, but I'm just requesting that,
[6:44] you know, you guys kind of it's a little bit of slack where we just had, you know, my uncle
[6:48] dying and I'm just coming into this, I'm doing no fun, no returning, you know, I'm doing
[6:54] the best I can and I just, I would hate to lose that property that's been out of family
[6:57] for all these years, because one person messed it up, you know, and that's, that's just what
[7:05] want to come and tell you guys and just on we ask that you guys give us a little time.
[7:11] All right, thank you.
[7:13] All
[7:18] right, anybody else would like to address that item on the agenda, the podium is open?
[7:33] Sure, it has its challenges. Miss Elise Glyspon. I just want to add my voice for
[7:37] all the new support using taxpayer funds to be cleaning up private property when the owners
[7:42] or the potential owners of the property are actively working on it and willing to take care of it
[7:47] with their own money. I don't think it's appropriate. Thank you.
[7:51] Thank you, Missy. And just to clarify for the for the community the way that the
[7:55] abatement order is is written is that we would determine what recover any expenses to do so
[8:01] from the property owner so there wouldn't be any direct cost or expense to the taxpayer.
[8:08] But still, the private sector is willing to take care of it. It's known our place to do it.
[8:16] Anybody else would like to address an item on the agenda the podium is open?
[8:20] I had one more question.
[8:21] Please, Jim.
[8:25] Those accounts will have a projected cost evaluation
[8:28] of the cleanup of the property over there.
[8:31] I don't know if there's...
[8:33] How much money would it cost?
[8:34] Cash hasn't been recognized since 2020.
[8:37] We don't know.
[8:39] Yes.
[8:41] We don't know.
[8:53] Let's see if there's been calls.
[8:56] I want to agree with you.
[9:10] I don't think that the town, if they're saying they have the means and ability to clean things up, in discussion with them, they would like to put that back into farmland.
[9:22] and they have probably early apples and other things there and I think what they see in their
[9:31] minds after getting this clean up would benefit this town and not put housing and everything
[9:41] else they want to bring it back to them so I think we need to support folks that are really
[9:52] Thank you.
[9:58] Anyone else to address an item on today's agenda?
[10:06] I'm a name of Tony Schultz.
[10:08] I'm the owner of a house 41st Winter Street.
[10:13] I'm family purchased that house in May of this year.
[10:15] This house directly abuts the proposed development on item E of your list today.
[10:21] I'm sure a lot of you have quite a bit of information about this project.
[10:25] Maybe more so than me.
[10:27] This is the place I chose to raise my family.
[10:30] The development of this size is not inside of Lisbon in a limited residential area that I know of.
[10:36] I've talked to many people in every direction and they all without exception fiercely opposed this project.
[10:42] In fact, I haven't found a single person that is for it.
[10:45] I've talked to a ton of neighbors, it's been a nice opportunity to get to know a lot of people and maybe I wouldn't.
[10:51] I did a bunch of research, it's very hard to filter through all of it, but on August 25th, 25th,
[10:58] If it had residential and lesbian maintenance, single family only, that got changed apparently
[11:04] according to the sum of people in the town because of state pressure, now a multifamily
[11:08] units are allowed with a special clause in the ordinance to allow for big area of
[11:12] bigger developments.
[11:13] If the town council in planning board approve it is my understanding that this special clause
[11:18] is not required, this special clause as I understand it is not required by state law.
[11:25] Every one of that I know in my neighborhood wants to live in a single family neighborhood,
[11:28] is the character of the town. It's been that way for a long time, as I know.
[11:33] And then, as Bob alluded to, there's also the cost of the tax payer.
[11:38] I did some rough numbers. These are spitballing, because it's the best I can do offline.
[11:43] Let's say we use 50 new units. As the working number, the standard multi-family rates suggest 25 to 40 new students.
[11:51] Now, it costs main roughly $19,600 to educate students, which would put the new development
[11:59] at somewhere between half a million and $800,000 education costs alone.
[12:04] It also multifamily housing typically brings a higher police demand.
[12:09] Even a modest increase in calls would be costly in personnel and overtime.
[12:14] Now, as Bob mentioned, we're talking about chiefly the land, give a grant of land to the developer.
[12:22] It's not a good look for the power in my opinion that a private developer get a gift of free land,
[12:26] especially because they are private and they are doing it to root themselves.
[12:32] Luckily, there's infrastructure. This is something I personally observe.
[12:35] There's water and sewage, but what I want to talk about is the storm water run off.
[12:41] For my new house, the road rises in both directions, and when it rains, water flows down
[12:46] the road, and it flows to the left of my house, and there is a river.
[12:50] Since maybe we've had a few rains, but nothing huge, and there's a river, two inches,
[12:55] the at least by a couple feet wide that flows by my house, goes behind it and disappears
[12:59] in the forest.
[13:01] The forest is acting as a massive sponge to get rid of the storm water on off of the entire
[13:05] neighborhood.
[13:06] You can look at the top, got a full map to see how that all works.
[13:09] Basically the water flows into one spot and that's spot is where they want to cut it
[13:13] down and put a big development in a lot of concrete.
[13:16] I believe my personal opinion is that it's going to cause a storm water problem.
[13:20] Storm water development is very expensive and in my opinion that's going to cause this
[13:24] ton of money, it's going to cause me a ton of hardship and you're going to flood my basement
[13:29] and all my neighbors' basements and it's just going to be a massive mess.
[13:32] beyond all the other problems that Bob has mentioned,
[13:34] et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[13:37] My question for the board.
[13:39] Excuse me, I have one second.
[13:40] I know I'm probably over three minutes.
[13:42] I apologize.
[13:45] I asked that does the Council require full impact analysis
[13:48] and explore impact fees.
[13:51] Okay, that's so that the developer
[13:53] won't have to pay for the infrastructure.
[13:56] And does the Council and who has the power?
[13:58] Basically I've talked to the town.
[13:59] I've talked to some people in the planning board
[14:01] and every says, our hands are tied.
[14:04] It's basically an ordinance, and we have no right to say yes or no.
[14:08] My opinion is that if everyone doesn't want it in the entire town,
[14:11] does the council have the power to stop it, or we literally,
[14:15] powerless, and we don't have the right to self-determination anymore in Lisbon.
[14:19] Because if everybody in the town doesn't want it,
[14:21] and it only benefits a few, I.e. a private developer,
[14:25] who has the right to stop it, and that's my question to you all.
[14:28] It's like, do we have the right to stop something that nobody, I can't find a person.
[14:33] I talked to like 100 people probably about this, because I bought a brand new home, thinking
[14:38] that behind was the forest.
[14:40] You can look at your CGI SMAP, I know them over time.
[14:42] You can look at your CGI SMAP currently, it says that it's a wilderness protected, it literally
[14:48] looks like beaver park on the map, so I bought a house that everybody in the neighborhood
[14:53] told me was a buddy to beaver park.
[14:55] The next day I find out they're going to put a massive housing.
[15:02] I'm not going to speak to that right now. But it does cause a higher level of crime. You can talk to police officers. I have about that. So, I want to stop it. Everybody had no wants to stop it. And I'm curious if the council must have a power to stop it. I'm asking you to do so. And that's where I land. And it's nice to meet you and I'm sorry I had to do so. It's such a strange economy, but thank you very much.
[15:32] Before we move on, does anybody have anything else that they wanted to address?
[15:37] If we can move on to item five, which is anything at all.
[15:40] Does anybody have anything at all that they wanted to address the Council on tonight,
[15:44] even if it's not on the agenda?
[15:50] When we do get to item sixy, I wrote Tonya did write your questions down,
[15:55] and I'll do my best to answer as many of them as I can.
[15:57] When we do get to item sixy.
[15:58] So anything else to bring up to the council tonight?
[16:04] We'll move into council order resolutions and ordinances.
[16:07] And I'll have to start to read the first order.
[16:09] That's what 26-135 authorized the town manager
[16:13] and finance director to wave any interest and other costs
[16:16] assessed for the FY26 tax bills that they
[16:20] can reasonably determine to have been impacted by town staff.
[16:24] We'll enter the motion to authorize.
[16:27] Seconded by Councilor Bickford.
[16:30] All right.
[16:31] Sarah, you're does any of you like to give us a briefing on this?
[16:33] Yes, Beth is here.
[16:34] Our finance director is speaking to this topic.
[16:36] If you want my comment.
[16:40] So what this is basically asking for is,
[16:44] as I'm sure you're all aware,
[16:45] the 30 day notice is when I would back on July 15th
[16:50] and since then, we have found a number.
[16:53] So I guess the most common thing we've been finding
[16:55] is just misapplied payments.
[16:57] So what seems to have happened a lot during FY-25 is I guess the most common instance would be
[17:05] A payment was missed or not missed but not applied correctly, so not applied to the appropriate period and applied to the next one
[17:12] this then creates that
[17:15] First period is in the system showing is overdue and
[17:19] accruing interest really that payment should have applied to
[17:24] the further back outstanding bill. And then kind of the other issue, which I think Jim
[17:31] had made you all aware of was the issue we're running into with Lisbon Credit Union.
[17:36] We are we're still working to determine exactly kind of what happened with that, but we do
[17:42] believe that incorrect information was probably communicated to them in some fashion.
[17:49] We're actively working to get a handle on that and to correct those accounts.
[17:54] But this is saying, all this is saying is this interest exists, it's not really the fault
[17:59] or the responsibility of the taxpayer, so we don't, you know, it doesn't belong to them.
[18:06] So we're just looking for authorization from you to be able to wave that interest, which truly
[18:12] shouldn't exist in the first place and in turn, if the lean costs associated with it,
[18:18] had those payments been applied correctly.
[18:21] These notices wouldn't have gone out.
[18:24] And there would be no one else.
[18:28] Thank you, Beth.
[18:29] I just believe that government shouldn't
[18:30] invoice its own mistakes.
[18:34] Thank you.
[18:36] So I would say just from my perspective,
[18:39] thank you to your and your team for discovering this issue,
[18:42] moving to rectify and also bringing it to our attention.
[18:44] I wholeheartedly agree that as we're continuing to write our financial ship, those who are impacted shouldn't be needing to pay fees or interest or anything like that because of something that they don't mistake that we made.
[18:59] So I wholeheartedly agree with that. Does any other counselor have any questions or comments?
[19:04] Let's do the right thing.
[19:07] All right, seeing no other discussion.
[19:10] Go ahead and move to vote all those in favor.
[19:12] All right.
[19:13] Okay.
[19:19] Okay, next item, please.
[19:25] 26-136 approved the use of a sole source bidding process for the procurement of a greater and authorize the town manager to execute an agreement with the town of Auburn for grading equipment.
[19:36] All the other ten of motion to approve.
[19:39] Can we change the city of Auburn?
[19:41] Yep.
[19:42] Make the motion.
[19:45] Okay.
[19:47] And I know that that's the hallway.
[19:49] I don't know if you wanted to hinder.
[19:49] Yeah, I couldn't see him.
[19:50] He's there.
[19:52] I don't know.
[19:53] I want to.
[19:54] I don't be shy.
[19:56] I couldn't.
[19:57] Who is my blind spot?
[20:02] I'm going to explain what's going on.
[20:03] No mind, that'd be great.
[20:04] So we have an opportunity to rent the greater from the city of Auburn.
[20:08] In the past, we rented a hired guy.
[20:11] So hired guy to do our grading of our roads in town.
[20:14] His machine was too small to actually pull them through and he might have,
[20:17] my pulse we have got was down through.
[20:19] He could add any material on top and grated out nice and neatly.
[20:22] We couldn't pull any of our shoulders back, and any of the gravel we lose off the side of the road that makes it damn.
[20:27] That keeps all of our water and the road doesn't allow that water to get to the ditch line.
[20:30] By renting this grade, we can actually do it ourselves in house.
[20:34] And with our operators, and we can actually pull the shoulders back in,
[20:37] proudly roads back to where we need to be.
[20:39] You did a great job last year, just couldn't quite get that final, final piece of the puzzle that we needed.
[20:44] And by doing it through Auburn, Auburn will allow us to use their machine for $43.50 an hour on the hour meter.
[20:50] Whereas, if we grow up in rental home machines,
[20:52] about 9,000 miles a month, that's the best price I could get.
[20:56] So, it all seems like a no-brainer,
[20:57] but same token we have to have a contract sign,
[20:59] and have to have a mission to do so ahead of time,
[21:01] and those little proper channels you're trying to go through now
[21:03] to do it and do it right.
[21:05] Questions from any other question for Pat?
[21:07] How much do you think we'll be using that?
[21:10] Well, the other catch that is,
[21:12] we can do just to grow the roads,
[21:14] but we can also use that to fix our shoulders and towns.
[21:16] Any time we dump a little bit of the gravel inside of the road,
[21:19] great or long and actually push that out and do some shoulder work. We used to do all the
[21:22] time and down. It hasn't been done for years. We could have a lot of shoulder work. I have
[21:26] $10,000 in a budget designated just for dirt roads and town. So we will not exceed that by any
[21:32] means just doing the gravel roads. I'm estimating probably $5,000, $7,000 if you do just a gravel
[21:37] road. And we may have that $3,000 available if we want to keep going further on that our meter
[21:43] to do other projects and town and it could be simplified with that greater.
[21:47] You come back with a priority list for shoulders because I mean, you probably could get them all done for 3,000, but I could be wrong.
[21:54] I bet we could do it for three months without a greater, you know what I'm saying, but you're right, it'll streamline the process much quicker.
[22:00] And we certainly do have priority roads and need to be done for a street at summer street as you know.
[22:07] So funny thing is every time we pay for a room here in town, that's what we need to do with all of that
[22:11] painting, but doing the shoulder work hasn't been done for years, we're unfortunate, so we could
[22:16] we could just pick the roads that had been paved in the last 10 years and spend that budget right there
[22:21] without even getting to the roads. I did. Thank you, Pat. This is a really pragmatic solution that I hope others are
[22:27] paying attention. This is really smart. Does it really have a lot of noise? Deliver it or do we go
[22:34] pick it up with our own driver.
[22:36] The government is actually using it right now and they're using it on a brick-air
[22:38] held road and it's a kind of a fault of it.
[22:40] You are doing their done.
[22:42] We just have to carry our own insurance policy to come running.
[22:45] It was wrong with it.
[22:46] And pay the hourly wage to 4350 an hour.
[22:50] I'll give you a little history.
[22:51] You just have a great deal.
[22:55] And you know, we had a little one to ever wrote.
[22:59] Finally it came down.
[23:01] That the trader was costed more to maintain and keep so we got rid of it.
[23:05] And we've always had people coming in to do it.
[23:11] And what you got right now is we don't brain off.
[23:20] Do we have an experience greater off right now?
[23:23] Three certified greater off right now.
[23:26] That's good.
[23:28] That's good.
[23:30] Let's put them to work.
[23:31] All right.
[23:32] See other comments or questions from Council?
[23:34] All right.
[23:34] then go ahead and move to vote, all those in favor.
[23:40] Thank you, Pat.
[23:42] All right.
[23:43] Next item, whenever you're ready, Alice.
[23:46] Authorized the town manager, or 2026-137, authorized the town manager to execute a professional
[23:52] services agreement with Barry Dunn, McNeill, and Parker L.C. for financial support services using
[23:58] sole source bidding, and an amount not to exceed $50,000 from already available funds
[24:03] or a reserve account created for financial audit preparation assistance.
[24:07] I'm going to finish the motion to authorize.
[24:09] I'll move.
[24:12] Seconded by.
[24:12] I'm going to give that one to Greg Garnet.
[24:15] All right.
[24:17] I think at our previous meeting,
[24:19] we had authorized a setting that funds aside.
[24:23] And so this is essentially for the no-good process there.
[24:26] I don't know if you want to add anything else or.
[24:28] Just remember.
[24:29] It was very briefly yes.
[24:30] Thank you for setting aside the funds to support Beth and
[24:33] doing in the finance department doing the hard work that they have to do to get us moving forward.
[24:38] So that we don't delay and get Beth and the finance team the help that they need or asking
[24:43] to sole source based on the expertise and the timing that we need this help in.
[24:49] And that's basically it in Beth. I stole your thunder. So if you want to come up and add
[24:53] anything else to the mix feel free. And you can say um yeah so I mean I kind of you know I looked into
[25:00] other firms and I know me and Sarah had a meeting with another potential contractor and
[25:06] just kind of between that meeting and some of the research I did on my own I feel very confident
[25:11] that buried on it's the correct firm for us to use. I think they do have heavy expertise in
[25:19] the municipal finance world and they can start almost like they are ready to go as soon as
[25:26] get a contract from us. So they clicked my morning right away. Yeah. Well, I
[25:31] fern first and then break them. And while you're off, I just maybe can answer
[25:35] maybe you can. So the 50,000 is a set project or end game to the way you'll
[25:45] can do in years past. I've just seen money put aside where we bring in people
[25:49] and then basically a project sunk it down before the money runs out and then we
[25:52] I think that's with a bigger move for our staff to try to fill.
[25:56] And I'm just warning you, if that's something with it,
[25:59] does it, will it $50,000?
[26:02] You all want to do?
[26:04] I strongly believe so.
[26:07] So the discussions we've had with them
[26:09] is we've already had several meetings to kind of,
[26:13] just to talk about getting a contract in place
[26:16] and then kind of sense, they provided us with a formal contract.
[26:22] We had a meeting yesterday to kind of just discuss
[26:26] sort of what their focus should be
[26:30] and
[26:31] I hope them and I strongly felt, you know, we've done a lot of work to get cash reconciled, but it's not there
[26:38] and with that, obviously being our biggest asset
[26:42] and also the biggest risk on the balance sheet. They are going to start with cash
[26:49] get us there, because like I said I've done a lot of work on it, but it's just with all, I feel
[26:55] like to do a proper cash reconciliation, you really have to sit there for several hours and
[26:59] not be interrupted and I just don't have that ability. This time with all the other things going
[27:04] around. So as to not kind of delay that process, they're going to jump in and kind of take that
[27:09] from where I've gotten it through the finish line. And we also had talked about we're going to do
[27:14] bi-weekly check-ins with them, where they will update us sort of on the hours they've spent,
[27:20] the progress they've made, what we have kind of remaining in our budget, any issues they've found,
[27:26] any questions they've had, and then we're going to sort of direct it from there.
[27:32] So obviously, I expect in reconciling cash, some other issues may follow.
[27:37] I know withholding accounts have not been reconciled. I've done some work on that, but again,
[27:42] haven't taken it all the way. The other thing we had talked about was at one point I believe
[27:50] during FY25 we had CBS come in and do a great upon procedures for us over our tax or
[27:57] seafood accounts. We received that report and then to my knowledge nothing was ever done
[28:02] with that report to remedy those findings. So we're going to provide them with that report
[28:07] And they're going to kind of look at that kind of get those accounts reconciled as well and then kind of just use whatever remaining hours and money we have if there's other additional items we need help with will kind of figure out priority list and go from there.
[28:25] And just to follow up on that, I think it'd be good if you'd counsel on a little bit
[28:29] of war or act, because I think in the past, pretty much all the problems we have, right?
[28:33] And the problems that you just alluded to is, basically the lack of staff is actually
[28:37] fulfill, you know, get to where you need to be.
[28:39] We need to have a good baseline, right?
[28:41] We need to get to that point.
[28:42] And that was actually, Sarah had mentioned, you know, we've had contractors in the past
[28:47] who paid good money to, and that they were doing projects, and then the end result
[28:53] that that should have gotten with that money, but so I was that was actually their idea to
[28:58] have the bi-weekly meetings, which I was very happy with. So I think they're happy to kind of
[29:06] put up data every two weeks and then their approach was to sort of look at them as another member
[29:12] of the team. So if there's things that, even between those two week meetings, the manager on the engagement
[29:18] It was like reach out whenever, like if you would stretch in, if you need us to look at something immediately if something pops up like you direct us.
[29:27] I think it's good that you actually have some definite goals you're looking for and then actually spread from there and then it would be nice to get an assessment.
[29:36] When this team is done of what we still need to do and what it would take to get it because I still don't think we have adequate staff to actually fulfill everything.
[29:44] So if we still have holes, I would be nice to know what it would take to actually bring people on staff to actually get that taken care of
[29:51] I guess my angle is is with loss a lot of good people because we just don't have the resources to do the jobs that they were hired to do and I don't want that to happen again
[30:00] If it takes more, I think, as a council, we're going to be aware that we need to fix problems. And part of that is just a real last week, problems are and actually coming up with a good staff way to fix them after. So, again, that's just my two cents. So, full favor, what we're doing.
[30:15] Thank you for that, Greg.
[30:17] Well, when I used to sit over there, I'd tell Fern's dealing my thunder and he did it again because I was on the same topic.
[30:23] I was on the same topic, so, but thank you, you did it well, and I'm glad that we're going to get some help.
[30:28] If we don't get our financial stuff in order real quickly here, we're just going to be dragging that anchor and we don't need to do that.
[30:37] So thank you.
[30:38] That's all.
[30:40] I would say that a lot of the questions we're hearing from the public about cost proposals and analysis.
[30:46] Beth can't do that work if she's still working on 2024.
[30:49] That's something.
[30:50] This is a pragmatic solution.
[30:52] Just like Pat's was.
[30:55] Any other questions or discussion from the council?
[30:56] Can I ask a question? If you would, yeah, come on up, Bob. If you would, you would
[31:01] go to that.
[31:05] And then I apologize if I don't know what the, again, I'm procedurally, but
[31:09] I'm just curious within the contract that you're talking about. Is there some sort of insurance
[31:15] that if that company makes a financial error in any of the work that they're doing, that they're
[31:23] responsible to fix whatever damages are done by that because you can have a company
[31:31] come in and do all this work and if they miss a decimal point or something and cause
[31:41] an error that would impact the community who is ultimately responsible to fix that.
[31:47] Just concern to consider as you're looking at the contract.
[31:50] And I don't know if I feel like I'm looking at number 15 which is said,
[31:54] It says limitation of liability, so I was already sort of right here, and it's already mentioning, and I'm sure it's going to be in other spots, but it says except to the extent finally determined to have resulted from the parties fraud or willful misconduct, of course that's a worst case scenario, right?
[32:11] In no event shall consultant or client reliable for consequential special indirect incidental punitive or exemplary losses or damages related to this agreement.
[32:21] Episodes fraud or willful misconduct
[32:25] Consultant and or clients total aggregate liability arising out of or relating to this agreement shall not exceed three times the fees page of the client to the comes, you know.
[32:35] So there's a section there. I was looking at
[32:40] ethics and public contracting
[32:43] See and this is in the packet if you wanted to review it as well. I feel I'll look at it closely to make
[32:50] make sure with that lens and
[32:52] consideration.
[32:54] We don't want to have an
[32:56] accounting error by
[32:58] totally agree.
[33:00] Based on our history.
[33:01] Thank you.
[33:02] Great thought.
[33:03] Thank you.
[33:05] Any other questions or
[33:07] discussion?
[33:11] As part of them coming in
[33:14] and this might address your
[33:15] concern.
[33:17] But their ability will be limited to viewing our ledger, so they will not physically be posting anything or doing any actual accounting that hits the ledger.
[33:30] Any of, obviously, any recommendations they prepare.
[33:34] Finance, you know, me and Jessica are controller.
[33:37] Like everything will be reviewed by us.
[33:39] So if we were to review it and say, hey, this doesn't make sense.
[33:42] that would obviously be a separate conversation with them, knowing the background of the firm,
[33:48] and knowing the layers of review that their engagement will go through,
[33:52] they don't anticipate that being an issue. But just kind of to provide that comfort level like
[33:58] they're not going into our system and doing any sort of accounting or anything. They literally
[34:03] have access to run reports to assist them in doing their work, but aren't actually doing any of
[34:09] accounting. That still falls all in house. Thank you. Any other questions from the community on
[34:16] this one? Okay. Seeing no other movement, we'll go ahead and move to vote all those in favour?
[34:26] All right.
[34:28] I'll the clerk read the next one whenever she's reading. 2026-138, pursuant to 30A, MRS, section 37,
[34:35] D8-A4 authorize the town manager or their designated need to enter the real property located
[34:42] at 142 Ridge Road, Brisbane to act to abate the trash and debris in the rear of such property
[34:48] and to recover any actual indirect expenses incurred by the town in the abatement of the new
[34:54] sense.
[34:55] All right, so before I entertain a motion here, our town attorney has provided suggested language
[35:03] for the motion just to make sure that it's compliant with state law.
[35:06] So I'll entertain the motion, read it out,
[35:08] and then if somebody would like to make the motion, they may.
[35:11] Just to provide context, this has to do with an ongoing cork case.
[35:15] It's been going on for over a little over three years.
[35:20] So all right, I'll entertain a motion that the town manager or their
[35:23] designate pursuant to 3 AMRS 3758A4 is authorized to enter the real property
[35:28] located at 143 Bridge Road, Lisbon, to act to abate the trash and debris
[35:32] in the rear of such property, and to recover any actual and direct expenses incurred by the town,
[35:38] and the abatement of the nuisance.
[35:40] This authorization is made on the findings that Mr. Neseld did not remove all junk and
[35:44] unregistered and unexpected motor vehicles, as defined by Section 70-614-D2 and 3A-MRS 3752.
[35:53] Located on the real property and accordance with the schedule ordered by the court order
[35:58] in town of Lisbon versus Daniel Nesal, docket, number LEW, DC-CIV-2023-00293, and did not seek the
[36:07] town in Fort Coding Force when officers consent for a specific one uninspected motor vehicle
[36:13] that the parties agreed may remain, if agreed to, and did not convert an uninspected bus located
[36:20] on the rail property to a trailer and actively use such trailer for the removal of junk and
[36:24] material from the real property, and did not seek the town code enforcement officers consent
[36:29] to extend the period for complying with any provision in the court order and did not obtain
[36:35] a permit for the operation of a junkyard or automobile graveyard from the town council
[36:38] in accordance with 30-A-M-R-S-37-53.
[36:43] Do I have a motion?
[36:46] Do I have a second?
[36:49] So I can put this question.
[36:54] All right.
[36:55] Sarah, did you... did there anything else that you wanted to add to the staff perspective?
[36:58] I know that there's lots in the packet for us that we've...
[37:03] Just after review.
[37:04] I have a question on this.
[37:05] First place.
[37:06] So I know there's some going on a while, and I do appreciate the input.
[37:10] The new input that we're getting on this.
[37:14] Even...
[37:14] One thing that's actually not on this is actually a timeframe, right?
[37:18] So even if we, you know, go through, but actually they could be some ability to actually control
[37:24] when this actually happens, I mean, because it's simply just a process happening in place.
[37:30] So I know this is something that doesn't work on a question time, and there has been a lot
[37:34] of a cost already occurred.
[37:37] So the idea that we vote in favor of this doesn't mean it has to happen tomorrow or next
[37:42] week, it actually is something that could actually be in place as a role, and then actually
[37:47] And if things don't play out the way, you know, partially good, then it could just take effect.
[37:52] And I think that was one of the things that Liga was actually asking us last time.
[37:58] And I will answer the next step.
[37:59] And that's a good point.
[38:00] And I think, too, the way that the order is written, is that the term manager is authorized.
[38:07] It's not that the term manager is directed.
[38:10] So now that obviously, you know, I'm kind of fortunate to, you know, change in, and matters with the family, and I'm sorry for your loss, that things have changed that certainly the time manager can work with that, but still have the ability with this order at some point in the future to act if things don't work out.
[38:32] I've got a question though, I've lived in town all my life and I've known all the family that's
[38:39] up there and all that, but I know it's a nuisance and it's junkyard and all the stuff that's
[38:43] up there, but what are we doing about Brookside Auto that's sitting up there on our account? Why
[38:48] aren't we getting all of the people that have nuisance stuff here, the guild's side place? Why are
[38:53] we just doing one? Why can't we just get something going with all of them? Because right up at the
[39:00] This has been loosened in town line, it's a dump up there, and that's it for, I think just
[39:06] what what we can do is, Sarah, if you wouldn't mind maybe getting a brief together for the
[39:11] council just on the other ongoing litigation that we have, that's in the same nature,
[39:16] that would be helpful.
[39:17] I'm known to me, but right, I just, I just, I just, I fall on to get it all cleaned up,
[39:22] not just, you know, I had asked previously for all legal cases, and so we're working on it,
[39:29] Obviously. Good to know. I just had a pass. Council of actually invited to move forward
[39:38] on very similar items like this and given year to it actually still work through the details.
[39:45] So again, I don't think it's just because it gets voted for in the favourites night doesn't mean
[39:49] that something's going to happen in their future really quickly.
[39:52] It's one of those things where we've been explained by Council.
[39:56] I leave a council a lot of times it and that's a progression of the court environment that's would be the next step as far as, you know, our
[40:04] Publications of a council if we were if it were still in front of us. So again, I think one of the things that I would
[40:11] I would recommend is and if we do vote in favor of this tonight that we still do work with parties to make sure that
[40:18] Evolve all ability to actually get it done with by their own means
[40:24] speaking for me and
[40:26] I have trust issues with the town of Lisbon, as I feel many, so for me, the easiest boat I ever get is when I authorize to do more, but the harder boat is whether we should, and I don't think we should as a town authorize our town manager, that's just me.
[40:55] But before I'll go to the audience in a second but I'll just make sure that we're all good on this side first and then I'll click I'll get you guys in
[41:01] Councillor.
[41:02] So the only question I would have would kind of be coming off to what firms out there.
[41:05] There is no timeline right in this.
[41:09] So considering the change that we've heard tonight over the last time we got an update to this,
[41:14] where we have a party who's now trying to do things on their own but still needs to hear from some of the other courts.
[41:21] not sort of thing, does it hurt us to just table this to a later meeting?
[41:25] Now it's going to be my question.
[41:27] Do we have to take action from a timeline perspective?
[41:30] I mean, I don't want to put you on this posture.
[41:32] I don't know if you know from a legal perspective.
[41:34] But I'm aware of, I mean, I think there might be other parts in pieces.
[41:39] I personally would rather give just a little bit of time to work directly with you to figure out
[41:47] timeline of, you know, when we're expecting to see additional movement, he's only been
[41:51] making control of things there for a month. I feel like this has been going on for a long, long
[41:55] time. So, where there's been a recent change, I don't know that we need to make a decision on this
[42:00] tonight. And if we don't, I'd rather wait until we see either it's going the way that we want it to,
[42:06] or it's not. Yeah. Oh, it was like that. It's missed and these all come up again. That's some
[42:11] question please
[42:16] so can you assure us that this is actually going to happen in
[42:21] Probeco and you know if it is your chance to know either way oh so I was the
[42:26] Guardian and I had limited executive power when you passed away I lost that
[42:29] power so I only had power for 30 days and then you died. I filed for personal
[42:34] representative and I had the endorsement of two of the years obviously my
[42:41] They're going to issue us another date, but he would have to file payed $15,000,000 fee,
[42:48] go to court as soon as I was already happy with him. He signed over the property into his name,
[42:52] which he's not supposed to do as a power of attorney. He's taken $100,000 of thousands of dollars
[42:58] and money from Daniel through the logging knee to $180,000, through the sale of the property in
[43:04] that Daniel had no idea about he got 298,000, and in that time he could have cleaned up the
[43:09] bumper. He easily could have came in and cleaned up the bumper. In the 30 days that I had the
[43:13] power, I had my brother over there, not working over there every day, pulling stuff out of the ground,
[43:19] doing cutting down trees, making it accessible for us to pull off stuff. Then my father said,
[43:25] they're taking valuable junk, we were scrapping metal, we were pulling out of the ground,
[43:28] putting it into account for Daniel in his name, not using the funds because I had no ability to use the
[43:33] And the time that I was personal representative, I put $30,000 in his bank account.
[43:39] I have 20,000 more sitting waiting from the water company to dump into fixing that property.
[43:44] All right, my hands are tight.
[43:45] Right now it's in limbo.
[43:47] My father is not going to get the money together to be personal representative.
[43:51] He doesn't have the endorsements of either of his siblings.
[43:55] I'm a hardworking man.
[43:56] I am an old business.
[43:57] I will go on and clean up.
[43:58] I run an excavator.
[44:00] I've done construction my whole life.
[44:01] I wasn't aware until a productive service is called me so as we couldn't get a hold of your father for three weeks now. Your uncle's dying
[44:08] He needs care. I stepped in
[44:10] They gave me permission to get an accounting. I found that he stole four hundred fifty thousand dollars with the name of his money
[44:16] And he hasn't he's been he's been acquiring junk putting it on to the property. He hasn't made an effort to clean up the property
[44:22] I know that it's not valued at much now, but if I were to clean up the property
[44:27] I mean, that's for the town to be able to come and pick apples and have a farmer's market and get this back into like a functioning, you know, a functioning property. I mean, my family's been a staple of the community for a long time.
[44:39] We settled here many years ago and we might, my uncle was a big part of the council, he was involved very much in coming in here and being very involved involving the planning for the water infrastructure.
[44:50] I just don't think it's fair that within 30 days of indian it's up for meeting for us to put our tax dollars into to take his property and my father I had no
[45:00] I thought the poppy got sold and I found out when I went through the record, he sold the poppy. He spent all the money. He loved all the poppy to the checks all in his name.
[45:10] And he spent all the money he'd never paid any of the taxes on it, and he added junk to the poppy.
[45:15] He bought colonics boxes, sheds. He's done nothing but make it harder and if I believe that.
[45:20] I mean, he's had three orders to fix up the poppy and get cleaned up. He ignored all of them. I understand where you guys are coming from.
[45:27] I have the funds, as soon as I have access to the funds, I don't see it taking me more than 90 days to clean up property.
[45:34] I mean, I run heavy equipment, I have ties with the owner of Easy Rental, he's willing to give us a discount rate for the estateers,
[45:42] and all the town had made an offer with him to lower the funds down to some of my $15,000.
[45:47] You know, it's yet to find a hundred dollars a day right now, and I can't do anything. I want to.
[45:52] You know, I had done work over there at a time that I've been, well, I don't see a problem in tableing this for
[45:59] just until I become personal representative. I can get you guys at a agreement. I mean, I don't know what to do.
[46:05] I'm kind of like a lot of things I had about this because it's my family's land, you know. It's been in our family for hundreds of years. I want to keep it that way.
[46:13] So I guess to follow up on that. So litigation could, could possibly take quite a while.
[46:18] It could and I don't think that even if you guys did make this judgment today, you guys don't have a projected time when it's going to take, you don't have a projected policy on what it's going to take.
[46:28] And Kobe's still going to hold you guys up and all I should do certain things with the property.
[46:31] So I mean, I've only had power of 30 days, I don't have any power anymore, I'll be up front and clear about that.
[46:37] I filed the paperwork, I'll get a hearing, most likely that day they will grant you permission.
[46:41] then I will have to get a bond. The bond will allow me to cover the properties of state and
[46:47] cover insurance in case I mismanage it for any reason. That will not happen. I plan to
[46:51] clean up the property, winter is the only thing that could hold me up. If we hit into a big
[46:55] hard winter, it's going to be a lot harder for me to clean that property up. But by summer of next
[47:00] year, that will be a completely different property. The logging money has been known in the
[47:06] I was just in there waiting to fix the property and I just I would
[47:11] I would for you guys give me a chance, you know, like I'm sorry for my father, you know, like he's
[47:17] I don't really talk to me, and so like I'm doing the best I can you don't have to apologize for your parents
[47:21] So you know like that I just I just want it from clean my case
[47:26] You guys, you know, like I can clean that up, you know, and and I have been cleaning it up when I have the authority to do
[47:34] I'd rather want to go next
[47:35] Yeah, I just
[47:36] I ate, and I was on the council before, I served with y'all, I'm hoping to go.
[47:42] Yeah, and he was, I'm one of the committees that I used to come to a lot of time.
[47:47] And I, and I know the whole history.
[47:51] So, I'm wanting to extend it for a short period of time.
[47:56] I've got one question.
[47:58] Who are the squatters at all?
[47:59] Look, that's right.
[48:00] Who are the squatters at all on your property?
[48:02] I have done it was completely departmented. I passed for them to help me. I've done everything.
[48:07] I've gone to the police department. He said that my father gave them rights to live there and that they're tenets now and that I came up
[48:14] cross past them. Where was your father? The father is my father's drug addict and he runs right there on the down and I don't know
[48:23] where he is or what he's doing. He does sometimes he doesn't have a phone.
[48:25] No, everything is in perspective now.
[48:29] Yeah, you know, like when I went and became personal represented,
[48:33] I went to the Lisbon community.
[48:35] Both, both sectors, they started chronic.
[48:37] They said, thank God, you know, we've denied him so many times.
[48:39] He shows up at your uncle Daniel, swaps him out of the track.
[48:42] There's junkies in it out, you know, we've turned them like,
[48:44] I'm trying to do what I can, but I just don't want to fight the town.
[48:48] You know, and me and my father are not the same person,
[48:51] and I'm here to work with the town, get a cleaned up,
[48:54] And show you guys that, it can be a good part of the community again.
[48:59] So Sarah, or Chris, or whoever we can answer the question on this, do we have to release
[49:06] what we've got as a lean on that though, because I heard him speak about couldn't do anything
[49:12] because we've got it under a lean.
[49:15] Is that one of the issues other than just probate?
[49:18] No, the issue is that he passed away.
[49:20] And initially I was granted limited executive ship and it's typical and probate they want you to get in the counting of everything
[49:27] Before they're just going to say this person has access to spend these funds and that makes sense and I I
[49:32] Month to do it and I had to look for data turned in the accounting and they passed away
[49:36] So I had to start a whole new process. I don't have access to money
[49:39] I don't have access to attorneys if the probate is not a simple now
[49:42] I've been doing this all the paperwork all the packets. It's a time off of work
[49:45] thousands of dollars invested it was nine hundred dollars just a file for first and a
[49:50] representative. I don't see why we can't hold off a little bit either. I'm 67 years old
[49:56] and I don't think it's changed much in my 67 years. I don't know if another person is going to.
[50:01] It literally wasn't in some migrant migrant. It got to mention that these fines started
[50:06] to crewing and within the short period of time was higher than it is now, which is a 115,000
[50:12] and before it was up 200 or something.
[50:14] And I know that the guys that negotiate it down,
[50:16] but it's your talking about charging my family $100,000
[50:18] for an iceberg.
[50:20] And that I understand that that was my father's agreement.
[50:23] And I loved this real-pinit.
[50:25] And this is just, so you guys can work with me.
[50:27] And we can try to fit this on top.
[50:28] Because I don't have the funds to pay $150,000.
[50:31] Clean up the estate.
[50:33] And you know, without working the sale of the property.
[50:37] And I believe that I can clean it up.
[50:38] And I can get the house of praise.
[50:40] And I can get it worth more money.
[50:42] than what it's prof, but it's not yet now.
[50:46] Any other questions on this side of the table?
[50:50] I just wanted to say thank you for sharing.
[50:54] The humility it takes to stand up there.
[50:58] Anyway, it shows a lot of light on where the situation is.
[51:00] This is not what government should be doing.
[51:04] Getting on this.
[51:06] I just wanted to say for the record, there's no
[51:08] leans that we see on that property.
[51:11] We saw the attorney since he found out I had filed for some represented the leaders with
[51:15] filed.
[51:16] He sent in paperwork to all my family members and I know that across money.
[51:20] I received four packets since in the month that I have been for some representative.
[51:24] And I know every time that he does that or he talks to a council member, he's billing
[51:28] out those hours.
[51:29] When I started and I got that first packet, it was $4,800 in legal fees.
[51:34] And I know it's probably doubled by now.
[51:36] And $100 a day since I was personal representative.
[51:40] That pile is a quick, I'm doing the best scan out of my own pocket.
[51:44] I do also run my own business by myself, you know what I mean, one of the first
[51:48] in.
[51:49] And I've done all my funds in it.
[51:51] I've missed mortgage payments, I'm trying to save the land for my family.
[51:55] I'm all set.
[51:55] This isn't for me.
[51:56] This is to make my family whole and do the set them up for the rest of the lives.
[52:00] And there's 115 acres there.
[52:02] I could put a kit on every acre for the next five generations if I wanted to.
[52:06] Um, you know what, I just, I was, I was, I was, why come and tell you guys what's going on and tell you my side of the story.
[52:14] I'm sure, um, so if, if we're good on this side, is there anybody else in the community that wanted to share their thoughts or questions?
[52:22] My relative, Brandon.
[52:23] I have Brandon these all.
[52:25] I just wanted to say, I don't know if everyone knows here, but what my brother was, um, server,
[52:32] I have a limited conservator, a lawyer, I'll audition the probate court, intervene on this matter.
[52:40] Yeah, vision was denied.
[52:42] And now that probate case is ended, they put this up for judgment in the property.
[52:48] While it's in limbo, which is a very vulnerable place for that property be.
[52:52] So to give someone power like this, while it's in this vulnerable state,
[52:56] I think is a lot of trust in a town that I think a lot of people have lost
[53:02] trust it. I think that it could just be table until, you know, it's down under the eyes
[53:09] of the court in the appropriate court, so they can manage the whole side.
[53:17] I think that fits your motion to table.
[53:20] I want to, yeah.
[53:22] Okay.
[53:22] There's a second.
[53:23] I'm going to buy counter-tergent.
[53:27] I'll open favor of tabling the order before us.
[53:32] Thank you.
[53:39] Okay.
[53:40] In the last item of the evening.
[53:44] I've been related to Winter Housing Street,
[53:46] so see it's a little sea land transfer.
[53:49] Okay.
[53:49] So I feel like as more and more people get interested about this topic, it's an opportunity
[53:59] for us to share facts and educate and try to make sure that everybody is on the same page
[54:06] in terms of what's happened and when we do have some new information from staff that Sarah
[54:13] will share, but just to kind of tee it up to provide some context for the community and those who
[54:19] kind of just tuning into this issue or our teacher, what's going on, you know, as it was
[54:25] previously mentioned this evening and certainly lots of people have noted that the
[54:29] community that this development is being, you know, potentially proposed for is limited
[54:35] residential.
[54:36] It's designed by our community, by this council, with land uses and zoning for single family.
[54:43] And so what happened was in 2022, the main legislature passed a landmark housing bill called
[54:50] LV 2003, which forced every community in Maine to update their land uses to allow mixed use,
[54:59] or excuse me, not mixed use, cruelty family, the other end word.
[55:03] Multi-family developments in a zone like limited residential.
[55:09] And so we updated our land use and our zoning to comply with state law.
[55:15] There are other kind of, I put them in air quotes, bonuses depending on who you're,
[55:20] what's side of the table you're on, which allow for additional density bonuses, height bonuses,
[55:29] and things of that nature, if it's for affordable housing.
[55:32] And that's per the state law.
[55:35] Now, that happened in about 2022, a couple of years later the town updated its land uses and zoning
[55:44] laws ordinances to comply with state law, and so around that time that the developer and
[55:49] question started to indicate that they were interested in putting a development on that property.
[55:54] Last year, they approached the town council, and there was an order that was approved last May.
[56:03] to essentially authorize a deal with the developer and an exchange for approximately 1.2 acres that the developer would use for
[56:15] to gain a density bonus but also to have a second egress on the property for fire safety reasons.
[56:22] The town would have a community space in one of the buildings in perpetuity for our exclusive use.
[56:28] And that was approved in May with a 60 vote.
[56:33] And so now I think more visibility has brought this project to the forefront,
[56:41] even though the developer has still technically not even submitted an official proposal to the town for review.
[56:48] Everything up until now has been kind of hypothetical.
[56:50] But there's been some journal articles and a lot of movement and with the community in trying to learn more about this and get involved and I applaud that 100%.
[57:01] And so at our last meeting, as more folks from the community and from that neighborhood have kind of reached out and said,
[57:08] kind of the question we urge tonight, what can the council do about it? What's going to happen?
[57:13] The question that we asked staff last at our last meeting, particularly for some of our new counselors who are just kind of walking into this.
[57:20] like a lot of members in the community are was, you know, what has happened up until now
[57:26] and what options does the council have to do anything about this?
[57:32] And so, that's where I'll pass it over to Sarah where the question in particular was, this agreement
[57:37] that we entered into supposedly, this agreement that we voted on.
[57:41] I'll put it that way.
[57:42] The agreement that the council voted on last year in May, is it binding in any way?
[57:47] And do we have the ability to withdraw from it?
[57:49] and that's where I'll turn it over to Sarah.
[57:53] So do you want to go through the,
[57:56] what might come next week?
[57:58] So I just, if you want to share kind of,
[58:00] your findings based on what you've looked up
[58:02] in conversations that you've had.
[58:07] Let me just get my thoughts together on that.
[58:09] No problem.
[58:10] I mean, I'm more than happy to summarize it
[58:12] if I'm putting you on this bot.
[58:13] I've got my memo that is just kind of
[58:17] compile the big things.
[58:18] So so far, there's been regarding
[58:21] realty resources or this one, sorry, or the Winter Street Housing Project. There's been no updated
[58:28] development proposal submitted to the Planning Board, no active planning board review is underway.
[58:34] No agreement has been formalized or presented to the Council for review, and there's no timeline
[58:39] for Project Advancement provided by the developer and despite our efforts to reach out to them.
[58:44] And I'm not taking a position one way or another and just giving you the facts, despite my reaching out
[58:50] We do not have any information to share.
[58:56] So, would it go further into that?
[58:58] Yeah, so I guess just to really cut to the chase, if it's my understanding that based on
[59:03] the research that you've done, that the council has kind of the flexibility here to withdraw
[59:08] from this agreement that we voted on last year.
[59:10] That's right.
[59:12] So, withdraw the town managers, I wasn't here at that time, there's a number of things that
[59:18] and then for a couple of those reasons, you could with revoked my authorization place on the
[59:25] town manager at the time, not myself. And so that would probably be my recommendation.
[59:31] Yeah, and so the language in the order last year was essentially to authorize the town manager
[59:35] to enter into this agreement. No agreement has been entered into. The authorization is still out there,
[59:41] and so where we have the flexibility to withdraw that authorization and if we want to
[59:48] reviewed in the future we can if we want to not have it at all that's also a possibility.
[59:54] So that being said I think my direction that I'd like to take is
[1:00:00] Knowing this now, I didn't want to put an order on the agenda for tonight, because I wanted everybody on both sides of this table, this day as whatever you want to call it, to absorb this information.
[1:00:11] And I think what I'd like to do is have an order on our council meeting for August 11th with the order being to withdraw that authorization. That way it gives plenty of time for members in the community to show up, to share their, you know, whether it's, you know, their in favor or against it for whatever reason, who knows.
[1:00:29] But it just, there's no surprises. There's plenty of time to show up and share their opinion and we're not kind of rushing anything through.
[1:00:37] So that's what I'd like to do is to place it on the agenda to withdraw that authorization on the August 11th meeting.
[1:00:43] I don't know if any Councillors have any questions or commentary.
[1:00:46] Okay, what would happen if we do this?
[1:00:50] It's one way and the other doesn't make any damage to me, but if you do this, then let's say,
[1:00:56] well, don't work with whatever, go to the state, the state comes and says, yeah, you can't do that.
[1:01:01] So I think at this point, the level of state involvement, the level of state involvement that the
[1:01:07] state has and legislature has is really kind of overruling our, what's called the Home Rule Act.
[1:01:14] The home relaxed and main gives a lot of power to municipalities to pretty much do whatever the state.
[1:01:19] It's almost like the tenth amendment.
[1:01:20] Whatever the state doesn't talk about, we have the ability to do.
[1:01:24] And so the home relaxed gives municipalities a lot of power to do things like land use,
[1:01:28] as it's zoning and things like that.
[1:01:31] Right, and so this landmark housing legislation is essentially stripping array,
[1:01:35] some of those home rules, you know, powers that we have as municipalities as you control,
[1:01:40] what happens in our community.
[1:01:42] And so when we talk about the news and we look at all these things, you know, bipartisan approaches to fixing the housing crisis, this is the next stage in the pipeline of that conversation when we talk about that.
[1:01:55] So it's kind of, it's interesting to see it in context how it affects our community.
[1:02:00] But to your point, me personally and I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I don't see the state coming in and saying, no, you can't withdraw from that agreement.
[1:02:08] That's, it was our, it was our latitude to enter into it in the first place.
[1:02:11] It's our latitude to exit, that's kind of how I see it, but Uncle Charlie and then whoever else I would say that in my short time on the council I'm always surprised at how meetings tend to have a theme and this one has been about rebuilding trust.
[1:02:28] And so I think that putting it on the agenda for August 11th could maybe help rebuild the trust so that that discussion can happen in front of everyone.
[1:02:36] I'd be in favor of that.
[1:02:38] Yeah.
[1:02:39] I'd be in favor of that, too.
[1:02:42] I think it's just, there was a question mentioned earlier that I don't think was really addressed that.
[1:02:46] I think it's worthwhile and I think as far as when it comes to the property that the town does not, does not allow to grant.
[1:02:57] I mean, I think that's full control of the council, right?
[1:02:59] as this actually a town town item. The idea of if the developer was coming back and I have
[1:03:07] a smaller project and had nothing to do with the council, the council wouldn't have any
[1:03:10] per viewer to matter at all. I mean we could not stop it if it actually went to plan and
[1:03:15] board and then went to and checked all the boxes and planned and board it would never come to
[1:03:19] the council. Council wouldn't have any authority to say yes or no on that. I mean that's one of
[1:03:23] things that the checks and balances we have don't climb over to plan and board plan and board
[1:03:29] Or rules us when it comes to those type items.
[1:03:32] But a lot of the questions you're asking about,
[1:03:33] water flow, drainage, utilities.
[1:03:38] Those are the boxes of planable.
[1:03:39] It actually goes through in checks.
[1:03:40] And it's actually, we have a pretty thorough plan of board
[1:03:43] and the process is having place.
[1:03:45] So we have planers that actually work with plan of board
[1:03:47] to make sure those boxes all get checked.
[1:03:49] The hardest thing is if they are able to meet all the requirements
[1:03:52] and the fits within the town standards,
[1:03:55] the council really has no purview to say yes or no.
[1:03:57] I mean, the idea of the piece of property, the idea of whether the town allows that
[1:04:01] not.
[1:04:02] I mean, that is us.
[1:04:04] But when it comes to just a regular project that meets requirements, the council, that's
[1:04:10] when the state would come in if we tried to overrule something that actually was allowed.
[1:04:15] And, again, I just wanted to mention that earlier, what the council had control over, it
[1:04:20] is certain items.
[1:04:22] But not the idea of the plan of what is definitely the control and factor in the town when
[1:04:26] comes the idea of permitting uses and I got to say they actually do a good job and unfortunately
[1:04:31] a lot of this process hasn't gone through planning board yet, so you really haven't seen
[1:04:34] any of those answers.
[1:04:38] Before I call you, I just want to second Tony and this is in any other conversation on the
[1:04:42] side before I.
[1:04:44] Okay.
[1:04:44] You wouldn't mind coming up.
[1:04:44] I'd love to.
[1:04:45] So I just want to mention that there are two orders, so when we're talking about this
[1:04:49] just to be clear for what we'll do next time we're going to discuss two orders.
[1:04:53] One was February 10th, 2025, and one was May 13th, 2025,
[1:04:57] the thing when something for them, and they'll be in my memo in the next meeting.
[1:05:02] So you come up to them.
[1:05:03] Thank you.
[1:05:04] Right.
[1:05:04] And just to summarize, the first order was to authorize staff to explore an agreement.
[1:05:10] And then the second order was to authorize the time manager or staff to enter into the agreement.
[1:05:15] And so we're essentially kind of withdrawing all of that if we, if we so choose.
[1:05:19] So we're going to have a discussion to do so.
[1:05:22] I just want to say thank you first because I've recently very open and listening and it's
[1:05:27] I'm waiting to see it's my first experience with the government.
[1:05:30] My question to you Chris because seems seem to have a handle on this ordinance.
[1:05:34] My understanding of what the state brought down in you said 2023.
[1:05:38] I'm not mistaken.
[1:05:39] 2022 yeah.
[1:05:39] Okay.
[1:05:40] My understanding was that you're no longer allowed in the town to limit multifamily units.
[1:05:47] Now multifamily unit by definition is up to four units.
[1:05:50] in the ordinance that this is my understanding you can I'm going to lay it out and you tell me what I got wrong.
[1:05:56] My understanding was that the town of Lisbon then voted to allow that because they had to up to four
[1:06:02] and then they also added another section on top of that which they weren't legally bound to do
[1:06:07] which is that if a developer wanted to do something bigger than four
[1:06:11] they would it would then be up to the planning bar and this is the purpose. This is the part of the process that I had such a problem with
[1:06:17] Because what they did when they said that is that basically the planning board, and they said it's up to the planning board.
[1:06:23] But then if the private developer meets all of the obligations put upon and by the state, which is traffic, water, et cetera, et cetera.
[1:06:32] The planning board no longer has the power just like I heard from you, that they no longer have the power to stop it.
[1:06:37] They can only look at the ordinance and make a decision.
[1:06:40] So my thinking or my question to this board is legally a state requires you to have up to four.
[1:06:48] We put a clause or you put a clause in it that says you can have more larger development.
[1:06:54] At some point, as long as this is approved by the planning board,
[1:06:57] could we rescind or back that ordinance up to meet the state requirement i.e. four.
[1:07:03] Now the 223 gives you a 2.5x on whatever development is allowed.
[1:07:08] that would be four units times 2.5 puts you at 10 units. The bell
[1:07:13] is asking you for 40. So they're leaning on an ordinance that isn't
[1:07:17] state requirement that the town of Lisbon gave to the put as an
[1:07:22] ordinance. I believe it was in 20. I'm not I can't late lock down on my
[1:07:26] bad head. When I was voted on Chris, maybe you have it. So the what you're
[1:07:33] talking about is essentially a conditional use permit where the planning
[1:07:35] work and can say, you know, about them beyond whatever the minimum is.
[1:07:40] And so there's, um, if I'm just kind of quoting from our land use table here,
[1:07:46] uh, there is a little kind of an asterisk on that, or it says, um,
[1:07:50] multi-family dwellings containing more than four units require a conditional use permit.
[1:07:54] And less, those units are designated as an affordable housing density bonus, and accordance with
[1:08:01] So that's where the state trumps the conditional use permit.
[1:08:07] Okay, but by understanding it, so you're seeing that that MRM RS, I think,
[1:08:11] catches food.
[1:08:12] Yeah, it's the state statute.
[1:08:13] 43 states statute.
[1:08:15] As long as it's public housing.
[1:08:18] If it's, if it's designated as a affordable housing, it's no longer limited to four.
[1:08:22] Right.
[1:08:23] Right.
[1:08:23] I misunderstood that part.
[1:08:25] Thanks for the clarity.
[1:08:27] That's quite heavy handed.
[1:08:28] in my opinion from the state to say that somebody who's been single-family, the entire history of the town can now get a massive
[1:08:38] whole of the housing development. It's a very gross. Thank you.
[1:08:43] That's just later. Any other questions or comments from the community? I know this is obviously this is a big deal for us.
[1:08:50] So I want to make sure we have an opportunity for everybody to share and be heard and
[1:08:54] And that sort of thing, if there's any other questions out there that we can answer, we can go back and find answers to.
[1:09:00] I'd love to do that.
[1:09:03] Would you say, I want to echo some of the concerns.
[1:09:06] My wife said to each other, I'm a husband school department.
[1:09:09] They cannot take another single kid, let alone 50.
[1:09:13] They just can't.
[1:09:13] I'm just going to say it.
[1:09:14] She won't say it.
[1:09:15] I will.
[1:09:18] No.
[1:09:19] No more.
[1:09:23] So we'll go ahead and move forward with putting that order on the agenda for August 11th.
[1:09:29] to an order to revoke the authorization for those two orders and we'll have the discussion at that time and a vote.
[1:09:35] And we'll make sure that if you're listening in and you're not here and you're listening.
[1:09:40] I'm pointing up at the camera and you want to come in and share your thoughts on this subject.
[1:09:44] We would welcome you to come in at that time.
[1:09:48] So before we adjourn any other thoughts on anything else on the housing piece,
[1:09:53] we'll make sure I don't cut anybody off.
[1:09:56] So, all right, anything else from this side?
[1:09:58] I'm missing Karen Stevens from Lisbon Falls.
[1:10:01] Exactly.
[1:10:02] I had something to say.
[1:10:05] All right.
[1:10:06] Love you, Karen.
[1:10:06] I'm giving you the look.
[1:10:08] All right.
[1:10:08] Thank you, too.
[1:10:09] And I thank you for that.
[1:10:11] I needed to smile today.
[1:10:13] Thank you.
[1:10:13] Thank you.
[1:10:14] All right.
[1:10:15] With no more business coming before Council
[1:10:17] let entertain a motion to adjourn.
[1:10:19] Second.
[1:10:19] I need to buy Councillor Garnett.
[1:10:22] Hello, is it a favor?
[1:10:24] We are adjourned.
[1:10:24] That's 720, and I did thank you.
[1:10:30] You've done well.
[1:10:34] It's time for this job.
[1:10:35] I've done this.
[1:10:36] That's great.
[1:10:38] This thing is a seven o'clock share service.
[1:10:42] Or actually overran it.