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Good

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evening. Good evening. Good evening. I call to order this September 2nd, 2026 work session of the Board of Public Utilities. I thank everyone for participating. Hopefully it'll be another evening of fun and frolic.

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Please, please, we're not dealing with ECA by comparison anything that's fun and frolic.

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Anyway, first order of business is public comment.

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Do we have any public comments this evening?

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I don't see any in chambers.

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Have you, do we have any online?

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Thank you, Chair Gibson.

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For members of the public who are joining us on Zoom tonight,

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when Chair Gibson calls for public comment, please use the raise hand function.

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If you are participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand.

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If you wish to make a public comment at this time, raise your hand on Zoom.

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Chair Gibson, there are no hands raised.

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Okay, thank you.

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That takes us to a action to suspend procedural rules for the work session.

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Do I have a motion on that?

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Sure, I move that the Board of Public Utilities suspend the procedural rules.

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there are procedural rules for the September 2nd, 2026 work session so that formal action may be taken.

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Second.

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Okay.

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Move to the second of the We suspend procedural rules.

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Any comment?

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Discussion?

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Hold in favor?

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Motion passes three to zero.

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That takes us to approval of the agenda.

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I always saw that Kathy, to her one, is on.

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And we're not scheduled to get to the strategic planning update until very late in the meeting.

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Did you want to move that up?

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She's there now if she wants to be.

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Let's do that.

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Let's do that after the public hearing as the first item under business will just rearrange the business agenda.

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Okay. Is that okay with you, Kathy?

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Can you hear us?

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She's muted. We can't hear you, you're muted.

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Yes, that's fine with me. Thank you.

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Okay. I mean, you're welcome to stay for the later in the meeting if you prefer, but I just thought maybe you'd like to get your part done

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do something else. Thank you. Okay, we have a motion to approve the agenda with moving

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item 6D to be the first item under business. Sure, I move we approve the agenda as amended.

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Second. Okay, moved in second. Discussion. All in favor.

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Opposed, motion passes three to zero. That takes us to the consent agenda. Would anyone

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like to either amend or move to approve the consent agenda?

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I move that the Board approve the items on the consent agenda as presented and that the

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motions in the staff reports be included in the minutes for the record. I'll second

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Okay, we've been seconded to approve the consent agenda as presented.

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Any other comment?

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Seeing none, Kathy, please go the roll.

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Member Nockley?

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Member Haptor?

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Yes.

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Member Gibson?

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Thank you.

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Motion passes three to zero.

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That takes us to the public hearing on

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Code Ordnance number zero two three eighty seven

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which is to do with water service race casuals and that starts on page 20 of our agenda

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duck.

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Good evening Mr. Chair members of the board. I'm not John Janshi, but I'm here to present

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in her place tonight. It's she's enjoying overall deserved vacations. So here for any questions

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you may have on this public hearing. You do have your slides that were in the packet. Here's

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the same slides that we presented during VBP,

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last VPU introduction.

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So what does do a quick recap of that?

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This is water rate, water rate,

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code ordinance number 02387.

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If you recall, water rate ordinance 02480

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was provided to VPU on April 15, 2026,

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then it worked its way through a final VPU

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and then council.

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And then it was later seen that some of the dates

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that were in that ordinance were incorrect.

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so that we're under that ordinance void

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and this ordinance is now correcting those dates

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with the same exact rate increases that we're previously

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but approved by both board and council.

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Again, this replaces the incorrect version

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that was previously passed.

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The next two slides in the presentation

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give the recommended revisions to those dates.

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A couple of things to keep in mind

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for the water rate increase is this is a double rate increase and so it starts on a

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October 1st, 2026 through September 30th, 2027 and then the second rate increase would

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be for October 1st, 2027 on. This new this water rate ordinance also includes the bulk

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delivery rate for Lannel, the irrigation meter rate, the rate for the potty to mount

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service area and non-potable. If approved today, next step would be that it goes for

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Council introduction next week on September 8th and then the Council public hearing will

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be held on September 29th, 2026. That would be up in San Fretti questions.

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Questions?

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I have a few since I wasn't here for the original hearing on the 20th of May.

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I've got a few questions that I probably would have asked them if I had been present, so please bear with me.

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Maybe some of these were addressed then, I don't know.

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We once had progressive or tiered water rates for presidential at least,

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and those seem to have disappeared.

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Do you know when and why they disappeared?

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share gifts and I do not do you know Mr. Sulton the tiered rates are in this

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If you go to Part C, paragraph C, page, which,

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so if you 40-171, voteable, break schedule, A, A, paragraph C,

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there's different columns.

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Yeah? There's 9,000 gallons first. And then, 9, 15 and over 15. And they're all the same right.

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this is for October 1st through the 30th, that's that is the non-peak season and then if you

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continue down there's May 1st to September 30 and that's where you see the tears.

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Well that actually brings in my next question because the peak and non-peak are the same

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So no single family, you'll see 7, 53,

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8, 28, and 9,

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10.

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Dear dips and numbers of the board.

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If you also, then your package, there's the FAQs.

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And the second page of that gives a nice little summary of the reading.

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So you can see that there's the tiered reading.

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cases for the single-family residential, however, the rates remain

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be seen for multi-family commercial counties.

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May, that's the heading, but if you look at the rates, they're not

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different. They're different.

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7.53, all the way across, 8.13, all

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the way across, 8.78, all the way across. For that time period, they are the

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same. Well, for non-peak October 1st, April 30th, they're the same.

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And then when you go into May 1st or September,

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you'll need the summer peak season.

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But there's the same rate.

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There's the same dollar among there's different.

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They're different in the tears.

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Seven starts at seven.

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Then it goes to eight, 28, and then nine, 10.

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Ah, OK, I missed that one.

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All right, that's for the summer season.

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OK, that they are tiered there.

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OK, I missed that.

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looked at the first column. I apologize.

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Okay.

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Next question, we have a, there's a still a bulk delivery rate schedule 8D,

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which I think used to be for the lab, but now we have a lab bulk rate schedule, who a plot to whom does this schedule 8D now apply?

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It gives them that applies for the cost of water that's provided from water production to water distribution.

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So that's an internal DP rate.

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Lannol was part of that bulk rate, but now this is establishing the Lannol bulk rate, which is higher than the cost of water rate that we charge water distribution.

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With that, we had done a cost-of-service model for landowners.

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The reason for the higher rate for landowners so that they can pay their fair share of their use of the system.

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It's an internal rate. Does it really need to be encode?

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We need to use a check-ups and for...

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Chair, we do use that rate occasionally if customers have unexpected leak.

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We charge that rate to the customer, you know, but for that leak, that's the actual cost

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of water.

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So it's a little, okay.

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That makes sense.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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Are there other questions?

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Sure, Matt.

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Well, we're digging into the rates.

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I was just curious, when we sell water for fire protection,

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the helicopters are to construction around town,

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which rate is that?

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Is that bulk or is that commercial or?

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Four fire protection.

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I think when we check out a hydrant meter

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at commercial rate,

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if there's a fire, we don't charge for that,

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you know, if they're fighting a fire at the home.

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Right away.

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I guess I was like, we're in the force service, yes, they have a meter. Okay.

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And that's commercial rate. Okay. Thanks.

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Most of their words didn't come from here.

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Okay. Other questions?

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Is there any public comment on the proposed ordinance?

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Don't see any here? Abbey online.

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Chair Gibson, thank you.

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If any members of the public are online, would like to make comment regarding this, please raise your hand now.

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Chair Gibson, there are no hands raised online.

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Thank you.

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That's true.

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The Board for discussion or motion.

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Make a motion.

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I moved that the Board of Public Utilities Recommended Incorporated County of Los Alamos,

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Code ordinance number zero two dash three eight seven.

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An ordinance amending the Department of Public Utilities Water Service

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Great schedules, chapter 40, article 3, sections 40-171, 40-173, and 40-175, and adding

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new sections 40-176, 40-177, and 40-178 to the Incorporary County of Los Alamos

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Code with revisions to the effective dates of the last service charge period to after September

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30th, 2027, and section 40-171B and C, and after June 30th, 2027, and all other sections,

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and forward to Council for Introduction in Adoption.

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I'll second that.

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Anything further?

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Kathy?

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Member Notklee?

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Member Hadnir?

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Yes.

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Member Gibson?

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Thank you.

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Motion passes 3-0.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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That takes us to

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Strategic Planning Update,

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Which is on page 197 of Urgent of Duck

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by loves you have any opening comments

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I'm just flipping to the page. Sorry

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So nothing I wanted to add

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Joanne Gentry and Ben Oberkin. I met after we

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we recategorized all the objectives on ongoing versus measurable and then we work to

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add measurable items to the bullets below each objective so that in some cases the committee

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offered some, in other cases, they didn't, so we made one that was measurable, so that's what was new from the meeting time.

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At the workshop last week, till this week, and then me, I'll have Kathy add anything else that she wanted to add, because she, it was a collaborative effort, she did all the shuffling of the objectives,

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and then we work to add the measures below.

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Thank you, Final.

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I would just add that, I hope you have an opportunity to read through the measures.

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We have as many as nine and as few as two for each of our focus areas, which I, from a strategic planning standpoint,

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I mean, it gives us a mature plan that we're going to be able to track and review on an ongoing basis.

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So I would ask the board if it was accurately displayed in the document that you received in your packet.

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And I believe that a few of you may not have been actually at the workshop, so if you have questions, I would be more than happy to explain the process.

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Actually, I had a question, Kathy. If you go back up, if you get to go back up to one, that's fine.

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I don't remember discussing this, and it's fine, I was just curious, what is orthrophoto?

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Is it orthophoto or orthrophoto?

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What is that?

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It's ortho, ortho.

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Okay, and that's basically aerial photography.

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We do coordinate with laboratory every four years in pay for. They do one of the whole lab and then they include

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Los Alamos after that. Okay, so it's a shared data.

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I was just, I was just, I was just, I never heard of that. And I don't think we discussed it.

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But that's, to tell us, fine. I was curious. Thanks.

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Good question.

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Sorry, I was able to participate, but I did watch the video recap.

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So I did capture the conversation and it was a great session.

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Thank you.

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The one question or thought I wanted to offer was under 5.4 underwater.

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And I think I had mailed in this comment.

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There was a little bit of discussion about it.

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But I wondered about adding a sub bullet under 5.4 about a long term.

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And we've got the new long-term water plant coming up, but I think in the discussion

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in my email, I even suggested we make sure it's not just the water resource itself,

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but also the impact of both our own hydropower, but also WAPA effects.

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So I just was going to suggest a short bullet there, shorter than what I said, maybe a long-term

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water plan, and that's a good measurable thing, but I think I want to make sure we have

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in there was the only thing I wanted to add.

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And there was discussion. I do want to acknowledge

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we appreciated your comments and you submitting those. We did review those as we went through

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each focus area.

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If I go, do you want to address the conversation around the long-term water plan?

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Sure, Chair and Board member, he even the long-term water plan, the 40-year plan got approved

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by the board last month. So we can add that as a bullet complete the that plan. It will take

239
00:22:08,660 --> 00:22:16,660
you know, good part of this next year or so to complete it and get it approved by the

240
00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:18,080
office estate engineer.

241
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:28,050
So we'll add that directly under the number of gallons per capita if that's okay

242
00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:31,750
with you. Another bullet. Yes. Correct. Okay.

243
00:22:34,050 --> 00:22:38,470
All of these sub bullets and in the measurable

244
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:47,810
objectives seem to have been added since we talked about it. What was it? That is correct. So

245
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:54,590
that is correct. So this is the feedback that we received from the two small groups and with the

246
00:22:54,590 --> 00:23:04,210
of Joanne Finn and by law we were able to actually add where there were not measures discussed.

247
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:10,910
We added what would be recommendations as measures for each of these measurable objectives.

248
00:23:15,850 --> 00:23:18,150
That opens up a whole other dimension to this.

249
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:45,540
During our workshop, we did discuss how we would measure and actually, we actually have that on the flip charts during the workshop, how we might be able to measure those different objectives that were in that category.

250
00:23:45,540 --> 00:23:46,300
And

251
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:53,920
where we did not have them, then that is, we added the recommendations.

252
00:24:22,420 --> 00:24:25,680
Question in one point two, the second bullet.

253
00:24:26,420 --> 00:24:28,020
Review damage report.

254
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,120
What damage report are we talking about there?

255
00:24:32,860 --> 00:24:33,280
Chair.

256
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,600
When we have utility locates,

257
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:46,440
if there's a damage related that was either a contractor damage.

258
00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:53,440
That's that's a report that we get that we can review with the board.

259
00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:59,960
The only report we currently present that's damage related is when we have.

260
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:07,240
We have a tort claim and accident records, but we haven't had one with locates that accuracy, that locates

261
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:21,840
or contractor damage. We just had some with a gas system last week with a third party contractor that damaged gasoline, even though they were located.

262
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:31,930
And the next bullet, what the natural gas survey, what exactly does that refer to?

263
00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:35,790
that's something that we hold every four years.

264
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:40,110
It's part of our PRC regulation requirement.

265
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:42,390
We do a survey of the customers.

266
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:45,090
It's a separate survey.

267
00:25:52,930 --> 00:25:55,550
And we talked about cost of service studies.

268
00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:58,910
This is a objective 2.4.

269
00:25:59,850 --> 00:25:59,950
Okay.

270
00:26:00,730 --> 00:26:06,770
To we have a sense of what the cost of service studies

271
00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:10,090
for all four utilities would be.

272
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,620
Chair that varies.

273
00:26:15,540 --> 00:26:19,660
The last one we did with electric was under $100,000.

274
00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:24,960
Many of them we do internally by staff.

275
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,560
It just depends on the complexity of what we're trying to study.

276
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:36,240
The reason the electric one was done by a consultant was we were looking at the time

277
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:43,080
use in demand charge and trying to segregate those costs. That's when that study was performed

278
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:53,820
made recommendations. So it depends. I would say on water, that's probably one that we did

279
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:59,960
quite a bit of work this year on the proposal you made, but it's probably due for independent

280
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:06,600
it review. So I would make a recommendation as part of our annual budget process, those studies,

281
00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:10,960
some fun, and we can have that discussion.

282
00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:15,020
There's a bit of a chicken and egg here.

283
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:21,820
This sort of commets us to doing it without knowing the financial impact. And then when it comes

284
00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:29,380
the budget time, it can be said, oh, this is one of our strategic objectives. So we have to do it.

285
00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:40,200
And I don't know whether, I don't know whether we should be committing ourselves to doing that at this point.

286
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,400
The waste written is once every five years,

287
00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:46,460
right?

288
00:27:49,890 --> 00:27:51,890
That objective we never changed.

289
00:27:52,330 --> 00:27:56,360
That's been for quite a while.

290
00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:02,030
When was the last time?

291
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:03,350
Probably should remember.

292
00:28:03,490 --> 00:28:06,470
When was the last cost of service study for these utilities?

293
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:13,350
Well, as I mentioned, we had the electric a couple years ago, that's what guided the

294
00:28:13,350 --> 00:28:13,450
thing.

295
00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:18,490
I think that's the only one I've personally seen here, and then when we did the water

296
00:28:18,490 --> 00:28:23,910
rate presentation of spring, that was done internally, the cost of service, you know,

297
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:30,950
we established a new rate for the Paharito area, area, mountain area, service area.

298
00:28:31,410 --> 00:28:35,410
So, you vary how you might do it depending on the complexity of it in the time, and so

299
00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:38,690
There

300
00:28:42,210 --> 00:28:58,070
was discussion at the strategic planning workshop regarding that at least every five years keeping those words that wording in this objective because that did give us the flexibility.

301
00:28:59,090 --> 00:28:59,810
Last

302
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:16,520
item 6.4, I'd like to avoid discussion of ECA, but it's like trying to avoid discussions

303
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,020
about AI, it doesn't happen.

304
00:29:20,140 --> 00:29:27,480
It almost looks like the bullets don't add anything to the overall objective.

305
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,140
pursue contract mods and start discussion from follow on agreement. So the bullets are

306
00:29:33,660 --> 00:29:42,220
short term long term looks almost redundant there and I do wonder as I thought about this a little bit more

307
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,480
after the last meeting whether we should put anything in there

308
00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:53,460
as to why we what kind of contract mods we want to see or would like to see like reducing risk

309
00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:59,980
or at least producing risk without some offset income.

310
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:14,560
Confensation. Whether that should be, in the objective, stated objective or not, and I'm raising

311
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,480
the question, I'm not sure I have the answer,

312
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,600
but from my perspective and probably fall to your recollection,

313
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:38,140
when we were discussing the ECA with Seth, and I think our suspended meeting and then when

314
00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:45,480
got back very finely. I seem to recall that there were things, there were just some strange

315
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:51,360
language choices that were that just needed to be fixed up, right? So I think when I thought

316
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:57,740
short term, and his suggestion was, look, pass it, get it done in a short term, in a modification.

317
00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:04,640
I didn't think it was anything particularly substantive, but read strangely. So to my mind, I was

318
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:11,160
thinking, okay, let's just get this things tidy up and done, right? So it reads, um, well, um,

319
00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:16,420
and then though, but then starting the discussions about follow along in the long term, and you

320
00:31:16,420 --> 00:31:23,160
put 31 there, that seems all right to me. Um, I think was, uh, probably the more from my mind, the more

321
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,280
substantive thing.

322
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:34,820
I have the same recollection as far as short term things. Roll all the technical

323
00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:44,320
Corrections or language clean up into Mod 1 was the recommendation chair and board member

324
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:51,960
notably we've already initiated those discussions with Seth so it's in process right now and

325
00:31:53,030 --> 00:32:00,400
and then other modifications will probably see within their year is our energy day ahead market

326
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:10,400
needs as far as any new staffing or software or contracts that we may need to support Eden.

327
00:32:12,380 --> 00:32:19,380
So one way might take it into account Chair Gibson's comments, which I agree it does seem like it's

328
00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:24,260
just a rewrite to put it into a bullet format. One might just simply write this to say like

329
00:32:24,260 --> 00:32:31,040
pursue short-term contract modifications to the ECA as an necessary and start discussion for the

330
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,540
all on agreement by 2031. Something like that.

331
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:39,600
Works for me.

332
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:40,300
It looks like that,

333
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:46,660
yep.

334
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:50,640
And then in terms of measuring those, do you all have recommendations

335
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,100
as how you would adjust the two bullets?

336
00:32:56,340 --> 00:33:00,400
Or is it just completion of the modifications and then?

337
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,100
Yeah, I think we can just, I kind of agree with

338
00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:04,860
caregivers and we just just delete the bullets.

339
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,540
And then we'll know. And then my 2031 someone will say,

340
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,400
hey, have you started the long term discussions?

341
00:33:13,010 --> 00:33:18,950
Well, this does serve to remind us every year because otherwise you'll get forgotten.

342
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:22,610
Okay.

343
00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:26,530
Maddo remember he's going to be here for 15 years.

344
00:33:28,910 --> 00:33:29,790
15 years.

345
00:33:30,670 --> 00:33:32,510
We can make those modifications.

346
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:38,110
And that was quite a discussion that we had laid into the evening last week.

347
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:44,550
So, I will work with you to make that modification to 6.4.

348
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Other questions or enhancements you would like to make to this document?

349
00:34:03,570 --> 00:34:04,390
Good, by the way.

350
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,520
I don't have much energy over this, but you could take 6.4.

351
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,700
Probably put it under the ongoing objectives, right?

352
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:16,620
At this point, because it kind of feels that way.

353
00:34:16,620 --> 00:34:23,120
I don't know if it, again, I hesitate to raise it, but it seems like if it's there more.

354
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:31,630
Chair and Board member, not clearly. The only reason it's measurable is we put a year there,

355
00:34:31,670 --> 00:34:35,770
we have something to shoot for, so that

356
00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:43,540
you can probably go either way.

357
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:51,140
That gives us something sort of measurable under that one. The others are all the ongoing ones are all

358
00:34:51,140 --> 00:34:56,880
Really vague, but that's the nature of partnerships,

359
00:34:59,600 --> 00:34:59,600
usually.

360
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:21,200
Well, in that might change next year, once you have a year in front of you, because since that was just agreed upon, it might be appropriate to leave it in the measurable and then we can adjust it as needed next year.

361
00:35:25,740 --> 00:35:30,680
Okay, Kathy, Filo, do you have more?

362
00:35:30,940 --> 00:35:32,600
That's really good.

363
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,120
Just the last thing I just wanted to acknowledge, I did receive

364
00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:42,120
and summarize the post strategic planning workshop results,

365
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,220
and I did share those with Filo today.

366
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,200
We were waiting on just a few more inputs.

367
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:57,980
Overall, it was a positive session content, facilitation and outcomes.

368
00:35:59,460 --> 00:36:04,680
We did have some great suggestions that were made by you also.

369
00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:08,920
We will be taking those into account as we look to the future.

370
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:15,700
One thing I do want to point out is there were two comments around not reviewing our focus areas.

371
00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:24,560
That was by design in this strategic planning workshop that we were not going to spend time on the focus area and goal statements.

372
00:36:25,260 --> 00:36:28,400
And last something came up in the small group activity.

373
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,480
So I appreciate that the question about that and just wanted to clarify that with the board.

374
00:36:37,850 --> 00:36:47,450
chair. We were still missing one input for the post survey, but I anticipate we'll have

375
00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:51,490
that for the final when we bring it back in two weeks.

376
00:36:55,330 --> 00:36:58,330
So with Kathy shared this all the

377
00:36:58,330 --> 00:37:00,530
input short of one person. Okay.

378
00:37:05,540 --> 00:37:09,400
Kathy, do you have anything else? I do not unless there's anything

379
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,860
final you would like me to hit on that I did not touch on. I think we covered everything that I

380
00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:22,540
appreciate the input we received tonight. Clarifications. Okay. Thanks for joining us again, Kathy.

381
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:28,780
Well, I guess we'll see you again in two weeks. Yeah, I'll be back in two weeks. All right. Thank you all very

382
00:37:28,780 --> 00:37:30,300
much. All right.

383
00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:39,150
That takes us to business starting with the Farxdale Flat's business plan.

384
00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:47,650
The staff report for that starts in page 43, a virgin to duck, then you're up.

385
00:37:51,070 --> 00:37:52,210
Good evening, Chair.

386
00:37:52,930 --> 00:37:55,110
Board members, up I see you again.

387
00:37:57,570 --> 00:37:58,450
Been a long time.

388
00:37:59,330 --> 00:38:01,710
Be coming up familiar with this piece here.

389
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:02,590
No, I don't order.

390
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:12,640
It looks like my presentation's coming up.

391
00:38:24,140 --> 00:38:28,640
And would you rather have questions during a presentation or just go through the presentation

392
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,120
and then bring them all up at once.

393
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:32,580
Sure.

394
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:33,920
It's at your discretion.

395
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:36,480
But I encourage questions at any time.

396
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:36,900
Okay.

397
00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:38,160
That answers my question.

398
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:39,680
Thank you.

399
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:40,500
All right.

400
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,340
Here we go.

401
00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:42,360
Fuck sale flat.

402
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:43,920
Flats business plan update.

403
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:45,220
Next slide.

404
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,000
Thank you.

405
00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:46,960
We're scrolling through.

406
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:50,980
This is a overview.

407
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:53,340
It's the same as last time.

408
00:38:53,660 --> 00:38:56,180
I gave you some giving you some prices here now though.

409
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,500
So we have some reference.

410
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:04,920
and context for where a foxtail flats fits in with the big picture. So foxtail flats

411
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:11,300
obviously is a big step towards our ultimate goal of being carbon neutral by 2040. At the

412
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:17,620
time of our contracting the DOE had a 50% carbon free electricity by 2030 goal that has been removed

413
00:39:17,620 --> 00:39:25,430
under the current administration. But it could come back. They have other requirements but there's

414
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:26,490
substantially lower.

415
00:39:27,370 --> 00:39:32,230
Available long-term generational alternatives all cost more than PV does today.

416
00:39:33,730 --> 00:39:38,530
Not counting market purchases, which sometimes fluctuate below the cost of PV.

417
00:39:39,230 --> 00:39:43,310
But for new resources, we're looking at nuclear and gas turbines in the area of a hundred

418
00:39:43,310 --> 00:39:45,450
plus dollars in megawann hour.

419
00:39:47,550 --> 00:39:51,810
Sighting photovoltaics locally is we've done a small scale project.

420
00:39:51,810 --> 00:39:59,650
Again, anything that we can fit on county or available DOE parcels are going to be fairly small plants.

421
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:06,940
We're looking at ninety to plus dollars and maybe one hour, based upon our last study we did several years ago.

422
00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:08,820
It's probably even more than that now.

423
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:17,000
Geothermal $8 plus and maybe one hour more realistically, a hundred plus, but we have seen prices in the 80s.

424
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,000
Luckily, that they'd be negotiated as all these other resources have gone up.

425
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:31,180
We cost Geothermal has gone up to not necessarily because it costs more, but they can get more profit out of it, so of course they're going to raise the price.

426
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:32,940
To match the other alternatives.

427
00:40:32,940 --> 00:40:38,680
Fox L-flat's PVN best was calculated at a combined cost of 7479 as presented to BPU and

428
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,940
Council during the consideration for approval meetings.

429
00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:46,240
That was back in 2020, early 2024, February and March.

430
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,500
So you can see, even with the battery, still the cheapest resource we can fight.

431
00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:55,120
Those prices are fluctuating in that area still.

432
00:40:55,460 --> 00:40:59,500
Today, they haven't gone up, they haven't gone, and PVN's gone up a little, maybe you can

433
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:05,920
new Mexico you can get it for in the low $40 range per megawatt hour. Battery prices have

434
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:14,380
come down a smidge. We contracted for $13.50 per kilowatt month, which is a strange unit. That's

435
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:20,080
the way it's priced. You pay for the battery on a monthly basis based upon depending on the capacity.

436
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,200
So it's a fixed cost for each power capacity for that battery.

437
00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:29,120
1350 is what we contracted for.

438
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,660
It's in the ballpark for large utility scale systems

439
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:33,360
on around $13 today.

440
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:35,340
Next slide, please.

441
00:41:42,450 --> 00:41:45,490
All right, so going over what we have

442
00:41:45,490 --> 00:41:48,970
with the PPA, our purchase agreement for solar power.

443
00:41:49,570 --> 00:41:51,910
They have 100-7 megawatts contracted for 20 years,

444
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:55,730
at $37.88 per megawatt hour, no price escalator.

445
00:41:56,350 --> 00:41:58,490
So presumably as the costs of power go up

446
00:41:58,490 --> 00:42:01,030
over the next two decades, this will stay the same.

447
00:42:01,030 --> 00:42:03,210
relative to other things that will become cheaper.

448
00:42:03,850 --> 00:42:08,410
Take or pay, meaning there is you take everything that they produce.

449
00:42:08,890 --> 00:42:12,870
If you can't take it, you pay for it regardless of whether you want it or not.

450
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:17,650
That doesn't mean you generally would choose to just not take it.

451
00:42:17,770 --> 00:42:19,710
You'd go and sell it to market if you can.

452
00:42:20,010 --> 00:42:20,770
Sometimes they're low.

453
00:42:20,910 --> 00:42:24,150
We have negative pricing in which case you would simply curtail saying,

454
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:26,750
we don't want it, don't send it out to the grid,

455
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:30,170
and we would pay for the power that we curtailed.

456
00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:38,530
When we entered the contract, the developer was using the arrangement of a production tax credit structure,

457
00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:44,810
which meant that they got tax credits for every megawatt hour of energy the system produced.

458
00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:59,170
They subsequently changed their tax structure to use investment tax credits, which means they got an up front lump payment tax credit that doesn't affect the cost of power generation.

459
00:42:59,170 --> 00:43:07,470
Which is beneficial to the county because it means when we curtail, we don't have to pay the additional cost of those foregone production tax credits.

460
00:43:09,070 --> 00:43:12,910
So, which potentially could be in the area of the $20 to $30 megawatt hour.

461
00:43:13,410 --> 00:43:20,630
So, when we now, under current weight or building their system, if we curtail, we pay $37.88.

462
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:27,930
Previously, I had introduced the idea that if we did curtail, we could pay that extra production tax credit penalty.

463
00:43:27,930 --> 00:43:34,210
investment longer in play. The battery energy storage system is under the energy storage

464
00:43:34,210 --> 00:43:40,090
agreement, separate agreement. Again, we've heard this for 80 megawatts, 320 megawatt

465
00:43:40,090 --> 00:43:45,510
hours of battery storage for 20 years, coincident with the commercial operation date of

466
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:51,730
the solar. 1350 or kilowatt month, as I mentioned, again, no price escalator. We have one

467
00:43:51,730 --> 00:43:56,270
or percent of the battery capacity available for all the 20 years, any degradation and what

468
00:43:56,270 --> 00:44:03,730
is handled and dealt for accordingly with by the developer and operator. And we could fully charge it

469
00:44:03,730 --> 00:44:09,070
and discharge it once per day. That's an average number across an entire year. So if we wanted to do

470
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:14,610
twice in one day for whatever reason we could, but we'd have to make it up by not doing it another day.

471
00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:21,950
Next slide, please. Can you hang on one second? I'm just kind of curious. So if you give

472
00:44:21,950 --> 00:44:29,170
back to the previous slide at the bottom, you said the total we're paying is like $75.74.79. 75 dollars per megawatt hour.

473
00:44:30,290 --> 00:44:33,070
So if you go now down to the back to slide three.

474
00:44:33,610 --> 00:44:37,410
So if that $75.38 of them,

475
00:44:37,410 --> 00:44:40,330
$37.88 is the solar power.

476
00:44:40,490 --> 00:44:43,030
So that means in that odd unit of batteries,

477
00:44:44,090 --> 00:44:48,690
that accounts for the other, you know, 30 couple dollars per megawatt hour per.

478
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:49,950
Is that how that works?

479
00:44:49,950 --> 00:44:59,950
Yes, so we've made some assumptions obviously, we're assuming that you use the full capacity of the battery with one full charge and discharge every day of the year. Otherwise, if it's sitting there.

480
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,960
You're not getting benefit from it. Where you're paying for it, under, as I mentioned, under that fixed $13.50 per

481
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:12,480
kilowatt month charge, you're paying for the battery where the use it or not. Okay. So if you want to maximize your return on it,

482
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:20,960
you're going to use it every day as much as you can. And if you do that, and you charge it from the PV system, the average cost of all the energy

483
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:28,620
get out of the PV that we can use together with the energy that's coming out of the battery,

484
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:34,760
which was charged again from the PV, comes out to run a $75 megawatt arm, I see, okay.

485
00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:45,510
Not seeing any more questions, let's move on. So with the full 100 megawatt available,

486
00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:51,430
and an average, county, well, and send the initial, I've written an air force base load of about

487
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:57,710
120 megawatts. There will be times that fossil flash generation exceeds load. Not all the time.

488
00:45:57,890 --> 00:46:02,030
During the winter, the dead of winter when the days are short, you don't get as much PV energy.

489
00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:07,590
A lot of it will go charge the battery and for about three months in the dead of winter

490
00:46:07,590 --> 00:46:14,150
from November, December, and January, we have just about enough solar to meet our load and charge the

491
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:19,410
battery. The rest of the months, once you start getting into spring, days get longer,

492
00:46:19,410 --> 00:46:24,990
you have more PV, you don't use the battery as much, you're still charging it fully,

493
00:46:27,090 --> 00:46:27,310
but

494
00:46:27,310 --> 00:46:32,670
we start getting an increase in the excess PV that we don't need to sink to load. Our load

495
00:46:32,670 --> 00:46:38,970
is increasing through this summer and what the PV outpaces that increase in load. So the summer

496
00:46:38,970 --> 00:46:43,950
and what we call the shoulder months in the spring and fall are the areas that we are targeting

497
00:46:43,950 --> 00:46:49,310
for, what do we do with the excess PV. And that's what this whole presentation is really focused on.

498
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:56,930
on ways, and that we can best get the best financial return on our contract by dealing handling

499
00:46:56,930 --> 00:47:01,290
that excess PD during those months. So, as I mentioned historically, we'd planned

500
00:47:01,290 --> 00:47:09,270
to sell 15 megawatts, maybe that's a good thing we didn't secure that contract, because as I

501
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:15,130
mentioned, that would have less of a short in the winter, and not maybe potentially having not

502
00:47:15,130 --> 00:47:19,790
of PDD and charge our battery, which is not where we want to be.

503
00:47:20,130 --> 00:47:23,370
We don't want to, we don't intend on charging the battery from grid, but as we get into

504
00:47:23,370 --> 00:47:25,990
the options here, down the road, we'll see that that is an option.

505
00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:30,130
The presentation provides this presentation provides options for what to do with that

506
00:47:30,130 --> 00:47:32,050
excess power in the summer and spring and fall months.

507
00:47:32,290 --> 00:47:32,850
Next slide, please.

508
00:47:34,750 --> 00:47:38,270
So, this is really hard to see, but this is what I was talking about, how different

509
00:47:38,270 --> 00:47:40,710
months of the year you have access generation.

510
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:46,450
So the yellow bars, or this is all averaged out on a monthly basis, for each month of the year,

511
00:47:46,690 --> 00:47:50,130
starting with January, working yourself down the first column and then going to the second column,

512
00:47:50,130 --> 00:47:55,470
the third column and then in December. You can see in January, this is barely any extra PV,

513
00:47:56,250 --> 00:48:00,970
February March, March starts ticking up, you start seeing X-BIS PV and it grows all the way through the middle of

514
00:48:00,970 --> 00:48:06,990
summer and then it starts tapering back down around October. So pretty much what I already said,

515
00:48:06,990 --> 00:48:09,910
And that's what we need to deal with.

516
00:48:10,830 --> 00:48:17,930
As I said, the 50, so I said the 50 megawatt sale would have eliminated all the excess and more.

517
00:48:18,670 --> 00:48:25,870
The fiscal year 28 forecast we are expecting around 56,000 megawatt hours a year of excess solar during the day.

518
00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:31,650
To put that in context, the whole facility is expected to put out just a bit under 500,000 megawatt hours.

519
00:48:31,650 --> 00:48:38,710
So, little over 10, maybe 15% of excess capacity of generation, I should say.

520
00:48:39,370 --> 00:48:44,550
That equates to about $2.1 million a year to buy that excess solar, and if you didn't

521
00:48:44,550 --> 00:48:49,130
do anything with it, curtail it, that's what you'd be out for power you bought, but can't

522
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:49,410
use.

523
00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:56,010
So, that's our trick is to figure out what to do with that power, and avoid that expensive

524
00:48:56,010 --> 00:48:58,610
$2.1 million for no benefit.

525
00:48:59,210 --> 00:48:59,870
Next slide, please.

526
00:48:59,870 --> 00:49:09,370
Ben, before you go on. Yes, when you talk about excess here, are you talking excess relative to the entire pool load?

527
00:49:11,210 --> 00:49:14,310
In the merger, are we?

528
00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:16,870
Is this a plan based on?

529
00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:18,570
Basically

530
00:49:19,890 --> 00:49:23,230
Providing all of the needed power for the pool

531
00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:29,290
Exclusive of what we get from Laramie River and Wapa and so on from Foxdale Fletz.

532
00:49:29,290 --> 00:49:30,910
Chair board members, excellent question.

533
00:49:31,490 --> 00:49:34,110
Yes, it's making the assumption that,

534
00:49:34,270 --> 00:49:38,090
best case we use is much BV as we can to serve the pool.

535
00:49:38,650 --> 00:49:40,950
If our load goes up, we'll use it all.

536
00:49:41,130 --> 00:49:44,270
If it isn't there, then we have the access.

537
00:49:44,930 --> 00:49:47,190
And is it the pool and San Diego land?

538
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:48,690
Yes, and San Diego, Kirkland.

539
00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:52,630
I don't think we put in San Diego curtains,

540
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:56,570
current 30 megawatt, nominal share of the facility.

541
00:49:56,570 --> 00:49:59,910
I don't believe we have included any access.

542
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:19,740
If their load is above their needs, their needs are exceeding what they have already contracted for generation. They contracting with us, for fact, self-latch, at least we're going to get a contract in place with them. We'll talk about that another day. But they also contract with WAPA for the bulk of their power currently.

543
00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:29,620
And going ahead, they could take more of our PV to suit match their load rather than buying it from another PPA through WAPA.

544
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,620
If the price works out to their advantage, they're probably will.

545
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:38,930
Okay, so you're thinking

546
00:50:39,690 --> 00:50:40,310
So there

547
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:50,410
What was their share typically 30 megawatts and then initially and then obviously they need more and they throughout their course of their year

548
00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:52,930
They balance they take more from Wapa, right?

549
00:50:53,490 --> 00:50:59,310
But if in the summer we've got a lot more than they might be willing to take it from us that might be good thing for them

550
00:50:59,310 --> 00:51:02,890
I believe so, and for us, that is true.

551
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:05,350
The reason they only signed up for 30 megawatts

552
00:51:05,350 --> 00:51:07,010
was because they were anticipating

553
00:51:07,010 --> 00:51:10,050
some other local generation behind the meter projects

554
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:12,850
at the, you know, the,

555
00:51:12,930 --> 00:51:15,970
the Nerf-4 space area, that a project called

556
00:51:15,970 --> 00:51:17,190
Asgard, I believe it was.

557
00:51:17,330 --> 00:51:19,050
It was some kind of thermal storage

558
00:51:19,050 --> 00:51:21,270
and solar constant traders and stuff like that.

559
00:51:21,370 --> 00:51:22,430
I don't believe that's going forward,

560
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:24,090
but can't speak for sure.

561
00:51:24,270 --> 00:51:25,430
But that's part of their reasoning

562
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:27,350
when they signed up for 30 megawatts.

563
00:51:27,350 --> 00:51:28,950
I see. Okay.

564
00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:37,060
I'm not seeing any more questions. Let's move on. Here's the options that I've identified.

565
00:51:37,540 --> 00:51:43,920
There may be some other little variations on these, but these are the five general categories that I'm seeing right now.

566
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:48,820
And I say we have options with 50 megawatts. Again, keeping in mind it's not always 50 megawatts.

567
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:55,080
Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less depending on season all variations. We could sell to the California ISO extended

568
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:00,100
day ahead market. Just put it into the market, see what it clears for. Some of these will come

569
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:04,680
out ahead, some of these will come out behind. You take the risk of whatever the market price

570
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:11,940
closes at for that day. And you have some indications based on the trends when it comes to that.

571
00:52:12,180 --> 00:52:17,060
And you'll say, hey, power is treating a negative prices. I don't want to bid it in. You could do that,

572
00:52:17,220 --> 00:52:22,460
but then you have to curtail. So you'll price it accordingly and say whichever option, if I,

573
00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:26,440
If selling it to the market loses me money, compared to curtailing, I'll just curtail.

574
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,100
So pretty straight forward calculation there.

575
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,140
We could sell it to another party through a contract.

576
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,700
So similar to what we were planning to do with our 50 megawatts, if we could sell any

577
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:39,580
portion 5, 10, 15, whatever megawatts somebody wants to buy, we could sell them to share

578
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:40,120
that.

579
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,160
We were recognizing that the wood cut into the potential to use it ourselves, or send

580
00:52:46,340 --> 00:52:49,700
here, national lab currently in our four space during the winter months.

581
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,240
We can get more energy storage and use it to store the XRs for use at night.

582
00:52:55,720 --> 00:53:00,300
Lots of PV during the day, especially in the summer, not enough at night.

583
00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:06,860
Even in the winter or in the summer, we don't have enough, we'd have to get some kind of energy for the night.

584
00:53:06,940 --> 00:53:12,820
It could be through energy storage, in which case we could charge up batteries from the PV during the summer.

585
00:53:13,020 --> 00:53:16,820
And this is the colder months, we'd have to charge it from grid during the winter.

586
00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:23,620
We can use as much next option as we can use as much PV as possible as that we just talked about.

587
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:29,080
The county national lab, senior national lab and current and therefore space.

588
00:53:29,780 --> 00:53:38,180
Serve as much load as we can with solar power and solar rest to the KISO extended day head market or another party.

589
00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:45,660
There is one option, one more option, option 5, which is a mix of options 2 and 4,

590
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:51,940
where we pick and choose, sell a piece to another party through a contract, and also get

591
00:53:51,940 --> 00:53:52,840
more energy storage.

592
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,140
The rest of the options don't really combine in that way, but there are possible permindase

593
00:53:59,140 --> 00:54:00,440
titions, maybe we could make.

594
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,840
These are the main five that I want to talk about.

595
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:12,880
If we sell less than 50 megawasks or another party, we use the PV that we whatever PV we can and get more storage if it's economical and sell the rest of the EDM.

596
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,980
So we could combine them to optimize it somehow.

597
00:54:17,620 --> 00:54:19,880
Don't have any financial numbers for this.

598
00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:24,740
You know, that's getting into a domain where I'm not competent to do that kind of modeling myself.

599
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,000
And I need some either tools or somebody to support that.

600
00:54:28,540 --> 00:54:32,620
But that will come becoming forward over the next year as we get closer to EDM.

601
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:39,900
Next slide please. So pros and cons of selling it to the customer. As I mentioned, the price varies

602
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,920
seasonally daily hourly. You'd never know what you're going to get. You can based it upon historical stuff

603
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:52,420
in recent history and trends, but that's the best you can do. If something happens in spikes, the price,

604
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,940
then you make out. If something happens and there's a drop in price, then you get harmed.

605
00:54:59,380 --> 00:54:59,980
It allows for...

606
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:07,420
More generation diversity, FOX still flats is expected to be our largest single generation source, serving load.

607
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:16,660
During the day, FOX still flats were a big storm came over, cloud cover, rain, hail, snow, whatever.

608
00:55:17,780 --> 00:55:27,460
You'd have a big impact to our generation available to serve load, and we'd have to deal with it either on hourly or imbalance market,

609
00:55:27,460 --> 00:55:32,900
Which can have if everybody else is being affected by prices by still the storm

610
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:43,200
We'd be facing the same high prices there ready else we don't have and by those mentioned it before and a factor in this whole calculation about what the best approach is is what does called capacity

611
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:49,540
Where you have reliable generating resources to meet your load regardless of conditions

612
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:55,280
It's a new plant, a base load coal or an actual gas unit.

613
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:56,080
Those are pretty horrible.

614
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:56,980
They can run continues.

615
00:55:57,180 --> 00:56:01,580
As long as you have fuel for them, if the weather is bad, they don't care unless you gas

616
00:56:01,580 --> 00:56:04,120
the plant gets shut off, but that doesn't generally happen.

617
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,380
So they're considered to be very high, available, high capacity resources.

618
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,840
PV is an intermittent resource, obviously, can be affected by weather and only goes out

619
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:16,480
during the day.

620
00:56:16,740 --> 00:56:18,700
Batteries are somewhere in the middle right now.

621
00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:23,420
you need to charge them and they don't last very long so you don't get as much credit

622
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:30,340
on a capacity basis for battery storage right now unless theoretically gets a long duration

623
00:56:30,340 --> 00:56:39,600
storage in which case the jacks raises the capacity credit back up selling to kaiso edam gives

624
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:46,340
us room for dispatchable and higher capacity resources as I just mentioned so it makes it easier

625
00:56:46,340 --> 00:56:53,060
and produces potential e-damp cost the impacts of not having insufficient capacity.

626
00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:00,200
And again, there is the price uncertainty of the part being sold the market.

627
00:57:01,860 --> 00:57:02,540
Next slide, please.

628
00:57:09,170 --> 00:57:11,750
Okay, pros and cons are selling it to another party.

629
00:57:12,370 --> 00:57:13,310
You get price certainty.

630
00:57:13,550 --> 00:57:19,150
If you contract it out, you pick the terms, what the price is, the quantity, and you know what

631
00:57:19,150 --> 00:57:20,710
you're selling, you know what the price is going to be.

632
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:23,810
known quantity for the duration and term of the agreement.

633
00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:29,370
Like the previous case, it also allows for more generation diversity.

634
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:33,090
You can say, well now, I have sold off this capacity.

635
00:57:33,230 --> 00:57:37,170
Now I can go by another resource, whether it's geographically diverse,

636
00:57:37,370 --> 00:57:39,930
maybe behind the meter to get some additional resilience benefits,

637
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:45,450
or, you know, just somewhere else in a different area where you're not subject

638
00:57:45,450 --> 00:57:50,770
necessary to the same weather impacts, a different type of resource that's not affected

639
00:57:50,770 --> 00:57:56,430
necessary by the same weather as well. It provides room for those sorts of capacity

640
00:57:57,410 --> 00:58:02,130
acquisitions whether through a PPA or ownership and it gives us room to get some

641
00:58:02,130 --> 00:58:07,630
what's called dispatchable resources where you can say how much output you want out of it.

642
00:58:07,850 --> 00:58:13,170
If you don't want to run it, you can choose the lower output or limit turn off the output

643
00:58:13,170 --> 00:58:14,550
and you don't have to pay for fuel.

644
00:58:15,110 --> 00:58:16,290
You start to pay for all in MMO.

645
00:58:17,130 --> 00:58:18,030
Next slide, please.

646
00:58:21,490 --> 00:58:25,010
So pros and cons and more storage storage is expensive.

647
00:58:26,350 --> 00:58:31,110
There's newer cheaper resources that are coming soon.

648
00:58:31,590 --> 00:58:32,970
We've been hearing that for five years,

649
00:58:33,330 --> 00:58:34,710
but some of them are actually seen

650
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:36,150
to be making some headway.

651
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:37,870
One in particular, energy dome,

652
00:58:38,070 --> 00:58:41,290
carbon dioxide based, energy storage technology,

653
00:58:41,630 --> 00:58:44,070
similar to pump hydro, but using carbon dioxide,

654
00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:51,450
is actually has a couple of big contracts with a salt river project and another major

655
00:58:51,450 --> 00:58:56,990
utilain. So we're looking at that, seeing if that becomes a thing, the downside of it

656
00:58:56,990 --> 00:59:00,530
takes a lot of space. The county doesn't have real estate for it. It takes on order of 20

657
00:59:00,530 --> 00:59:06,690
acres to fit one of their facilities. We don't have that available in the county except maybe

658
00:59:06,690 --> 00:59:12,690
down the road. The DOE has land, but we'd have to work with them to get some of that if we want

659
00:59:12,690 --> 00:59:20,450
do something like that. So the best alternative and the real only alternative today is more

660
00:59:20,450 --> 00:59:28,050
lithium ion based, lithium-based storage. Still expensive. As I mentioned, maybe 5% cheaper

661
00:59:28,050 --> 00:59:30,170
than it was two years ago.

662
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:34,670
So hopefully that'll change. Maybe the tariff from volume would

663
00:59:34,670 --> 00:59:39,090
do a change and we'll get in line with prices, the rest of the world sees which are under $10.

664
00:59:40,450 --> 00:59:42,510
But I can't see that happening right now.

665
00:59:43,010 --> 00:59:45,990
In the winter months, the PV is insufficient to supply extra batteries,

666
00:59:46,130 --> 00:59:49,250
so if you got more battery, you'd need to charge it from grid or from other resources.

667
00:59:50,850 --> 00:59:53,710
Is that bad, maybe not still get you night,

668
00:59:54,130 --> 00:59:57,170
but if you're charging it from grid, then it's not clean power.

669
00:59:57,630 --> 00:59:59,950
Not PV, unless you go and buy some...

670
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:07,000
Another resource, contract for some other resources like geo thermal or a small nuke plant or something like that.

671
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:14,800
The increases the potential market sales value as storage has a higher assigned capacity.

672
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:25,740
I mentioned that than PV, not as high as special resources like coal, nuclear and gas, but into your thermal, but better than PV, much better than PV.

673
01:00:25,740 --> 01:00:32,700
PV in fact today's market you get almost no capacity credit for the excess capacity you have and

674
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:39,160
to control your thing. Next slide, please. So the pros and cons of using PV is much as possible

675
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:44,280
on selling the rest. The lower is the combined cost of the solar and battery because the more

676
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,320
solar, more PV you can use at a lower cost compared to the energy coming out of the battery,

677
01:00:48,660 --> 01:00:54,020
the better. It could take us from an estimated $75 megawatt order down which is the ballpark of

678
01:00:54,020 --> 01:00:55,640
$60 a megawatt hour.

679
01:00:58,430 --> 01:01:00,970
That's without getting any additional battery.

680
01:01:01,250 --> 01:01:02,530
So only using the extra PV.

681
01:01:03,690 --> 01:01:06,730
So more about PV at $378 a megawatt hour

682
01:01:06,730 --> 01:01:08,070
with the same amount of battery

683
01:01:08,070 --> 01:01:10,230
at $11 a megawatt hour.

684
01:01:10,410 --> 01:01:11,990
That's why it's lowering the cost.

685
01:01:12,210 --> 01:01:13,190
You're not increasing your battery.

686
01:01:13,530 --> 01:01:14,710
You're just using more PV.

687
01:01:15,590 --> 01:01:17,290
Then it allows for power scheduling flexibility.

688
01:01:17,610 --> 01:01:19,490
You use it when we can, and it's thought when we can't.

689
01:01:19,870 --> 01:01:23,470
This is one approach that I did mention this years ago.

690
01:01:23,490 --> 01:01:25,670
I don't remember when some of you probably

691
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:31,350
on the board at the time, but one of the concepts for using intermittent resources or inverter-based

692
01:01:31,350 --> 01:01:37,670
resources is there sometimes called like solar and when is you get extra. You just get more

693
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:43,850
than you think you will need for those times when it's not producing as much as you need. And you just

694
01:01:43,850 --> 01:01:51,370
plan on disposing of the excess. And that's one approach that some utilities, not all utilities,

695
01:01:51,370 --> 01:01:57,190
but some of the utilities are seeing as a potential avenue, so it could work for us.

696
01:01:57,370 --> 01:02:03,180
Next slide, pros and cons of a mix of the options, so less solar and battery,

697
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,740
cost reduction than using as much PV as possible. If you choose to contract some of the PV,

698
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,440
obviously you can't use it yourself, so you're not getting the benefit of that low cost PV.

699
01:02:13,380 --> 01:02:17,580
But it does allow for more power scheduling flexibility, the user will be counted, so we can't

700
01:02:17,580 --> 01:02:20,020
And at the same time, you get some of the benefits

701
01:02:20,020 --> 01:02:21,580
of additional generator diversity

702
01:02:21,580 --> 01:02:24,260
and dispatchable resources that I already mentioned.

703
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,720
Additional storage increases the cost, no matter what we do.

704
01:02:29,020 --> 01:02:31,860
Unless we see some dramatic cost reductions

705
01:02:31,860 --> 01:02:34,360
in long-term long-duration storage.

706
01:02:34,980 --> 01:02:38,060
Don't see that yet in practice.

707
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,800
But in theory, at least according to what these developers

708
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,700
are promising, as I mentioned, energy dome

709
01:02:46,700 --> 01:02:55,530
looks to be about half the cost of lithium-based technology storage on a per-megawatt-hour basis,

710
01:02:56,150 --> 01:03:01,790
but again, they're not really directly comparable because an energy dome system could run

711
01:03:01,790 --> 01:03:09,810
is sized to run for 10 hours instead of four hours, which is reasonable, but other technologies

712
01:03:09,810 --> 01:03:16,530
like iron, iron flow batteries, iron air batteries have an energy storage duration of 100 hours,

713
01:03:16,530 --> 01:03:21,850
which means that there's no way to charge and discharge it fully in a day.

714
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:22,910
It just can't do it.

715
01:03:23,030 --> 01:03:24,910
It takes a hundred dollars to fully discharge it.

716
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:27,650
So, you're always working in, you're always fluctuating up and down

717
01:03:27,650 --> 01:03:31,970
some middle state of charge point with those really long

718
01:03:31,970 --> 01:03:35,590
duration storage technologies, which is going to raise the cost for megawattar

719
01:03:35,590 --> 01:03:38,610
because you can't use it all the time.

720
01:03:39,590 --> 01:03:40,890
Does it take it over lithium-ion?

721
01:03:41,030 --> 01:03:41,510
Don't know.

722
01:03:41,570 --> 01:03:42,750
Haven't seen any prices for that.

723
01:03:42,970 --> 01:03:43,650
We're keeping it around.

724
01:03:45,090 --> 01:03:45,990
Next slide, please.

725
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:48,890
And this is the last one.

726
01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:51,950
So here's what we're doing now.

727
01:03:52,190 --> 01:03:53,590
We're looking at all these options, I mentioned.

728
01:03:53,770 --> 01:03:56,010
All five of the options and anything else we can find.

729
01:03:56,330 --> 01:03:58,770
We're evaluating how EDM sales will work.

730
01:03:59,150 --> 01:04:00,710
We don't know exactly yet.

731
01:04:01,050 --> 01:04:02,090
We're learning as much as we can.

732
01:04:02,130 --> 01:04:04,210
As fast as we can from our partner,

733
01:04:04,330 --> 01:04:04,870
UX,

734
01:04:05,650 --> 01:04:06,910
participation in EDM,

735
01:04:07,590 --> 01:04:11,290
and what P&M is going to tell us how it's going to work for us through them.

736
01:04:11,650 --> 01:04:12,850
And what those costs will be.

737
01:04:13,150 --> 01:04:14,150
We're looking for a buyer,

738
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:23,390
actively looking for a buyer for 10 to 50 megawatts or a megawatts capacity if somebody wants to buy it and the price is right and it takes some risk off of us.

739
01:04:23,690 --> 01:04:25,030
We're open to that.

740
01:04:25,030 --> 01:04:34,510
We're exploring opportunities for additional storage if the costs are right and we can actually site it in a good place that works for us.

741
01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:37,990
And we're planning to use as much as feet and but with all those options,

742
01:04:37,990 --> 01:04:49,470
So I should say the buyer is not guaranteed, the additional storage will take time probably pass the commercial operation date of the solar system.

743
01:04:50,670 --> 01:04:59,210
So in the near term, we're looking to use as much PV as possible in FY28, which is when fossil flats will come on at its full capacity.

744
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:10,200
And roll in any of the possible solutions as they arise. And that ends my presentation. Any more questions? I'd be happy to discuss.

745
01:05:11,420 --> 01:05:17,600
Thank you, Ben. Lots of meat here. Who would like to start?

746
01:05:19,710 --> 01:05:23,610
Three quick comments, I think. First, I really appreciate this. Thanks a lot.

747
01:05:23,610 --> 01:05:28,570
But Foxdale is exciting, and I like the way you're laying it out and pursuing all the options.

748
01:05:29,630 --> 01:05:30,570
Two minor comments.

749
01:05:31,330 --> 01:05:35,650
When you're looking at other storage options, I don't know if you've looked or if it's

750
01:05:35,650 --> 01:05:42,950
a realistic option to do more locally based storage, either at a field or even as a more

751
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:48,290
distributed resource, a battery and every neighborhood transformer would be interesting

752
01:05:48,290 --> 01:05:50,530
to think about, I don't know what the cost would be.

753
01:05:50,730 --> 01:05:52,750
So I encourage you to keep that on the list of things.

754
01:05:52,750 --> 01:06:16,770
And then the other, just a comment, a side comment you made about nuclear being resilient to energy, or to weather, and with the European heat waves, they had to turn off a lot of nuclear power plants, or non-trivial amount of nuclear power plants, because of the river temperatures or so, they couldn't use them for cooling, so there's an asterix on that comment that I wanted to add, and that's everything I had now, thanks again.

755
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:26,720
Just a comic first of all really nice clear presentation. I like that. Thank you for that. That makes it very easy to digest.

756
01:06:27,940 --> 01:06:38,160
Can you estimate, I mean, based on just historical patterns out there in the country, how much solar would go for during the summer?

757
01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:44,600
Surely we have plenty of data to say, to test me, like roughly speaking how much how much it would go for.

758
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:49,820
And then that would give you some numbers to sort of hang on your, you know, hang on to say,

759
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,600
okay, at this price point pursuing more storage makes sense.

760
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,220
But below this price point, it doesn't, that's sort of thing.

761
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,340
Do you, is there enough out there to make it, at least the back of the envelope has to

762
01:06:59,340 --> 01:06:59,960
move?

763
01:07:01,060 --> 01:07:01,940
Excellent question.

764
01:07:02,740 --> 01:07:04,140
Remember not the chair.

765
01:07:05,980 --> 01:07:09,620
Warbarmers, we've tried to do this and we're going to continue trying to do it.

766
01:07:09,620 --> 01:07:13,260
What we've been looking at is a hourly market,

767
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,680
what's called the energy imbalance market at the EIM.

768
01:07:16,900 --> 01:07:21,000
That's part of California ISOs thing with P&M,

769
01:07:21,140 --> 01:07:22,420
and we're under that.

770
01:07:22,700 --> 01:07:23,900
And so we look at those hourly prices.

771
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:28,020
We also track, we plan to buy extra power

772
01:07:28,020 --> 01:07:31,240
from the market hourly basis real-time purchases

773
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,000
right now before E-DAM comes along

774
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,500
to keep ourselves balanced, low generation to load.

775
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:42,500
It ours varies a lot during the day picks up in the middle of the day depending on weather and then you know

776
01:07:42,500 --> 01:07:48,540
We get especially during monsoons season. We get a rain storm at 3 p.m. and the little falls because it cools off

777
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:55,280
So things like that we need to adjust to that so we can do these hourly purchase to adjust for that and based upon those two sorts of prices

778
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,640
We can make some rough indications

779
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:04,120
I'll give you an example in July and some of August. There were some hours even

780
01:08:04,740 --> 01:08:10,520
Recently, like past week, where prices were about $150 a megawatt hour for those hourly purchases.

781
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:16,400
In July, we saw some prices approaching several hundred to $700 an hour.

782
01:08:18,020 --> 01:08:22,180
So in that case, if you could sell your excess solar to a market,

783
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,480
some of the summers usually when the prices are the highest.

784
01:08:25,780 --> 01:08:29,080
Highest demand, you keep domes, that sort of thing, that's when the prices are being higher.

785
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,500
I haven't done a thorough statistical analysis of that.

786
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:37,600
Don't have the skills, I said, I said, don't have the tools to do it, but I need to get

787
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,940
something like that in order to inform how to make decisions with EDM.

788
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:44,880
But it doesn't sound like you're expecting that.

789
01:08:45,540 --> 01:08:49,060
In other words, it sounds like just saying and retaining flexibility, which, at least

790
01:08:49,060 --> 01:08:52,740
for the first years, I would say is probably my strong preference to say it uses as much

791
01:08:52,740 --> 01:08:56,540
as we can, but then let's just see what happens with the access.

792
01:08:56,540 --> 01:09:01,640
It sounds like you wouldn't expect the county to like lose a ton of money on that

793
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:07,500
Given what you just said is that fair as I said I didn't expect the maximum cost exposure

794
01:09:07,500 --> 01:09:11,960
Based upon a current high level analysis to be on the order of 2 million a year

795
01:09:13,180 --> 01:09:18,620
Which is in consideration of our 50 million dollar your budget is not terrible?

796
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:21,480
Okay, thanks

797
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,620
then your presentation

798
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:45,300
was focused on economics and implicitly, you know, using PV's great from environmental standpoint.

799
01:09:46,820 --> 01:09:51,340
But what we haven't talked to anything about is what's really our first priority,

800
01:09:51,660 --> 01:09:52,420
which is reliability.

801
01:09:54,220 --> 01:09:59,960
And we don't know yet how fixed.

802
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:10,040
How flexible that is really going to work? We don't know if it's really going to be there all the time when it's supposed to be.

803
01:10:10,700 --> 01:10:14,460
We don't know how he damn is going to work really, yeah, either.

804
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:23,160
And I'm rather nervous about putting too many eggs in one basket right off the bat.

805
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:27,660
When that's a basket that we don't have experience with,

806
01:10:30,220 --> 01:10:33,360
it sounds good to try to get, you know,

807
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:34,780
meet all our load from PV.

808
01:10:35,260 --> 01:10:38,200
But that's putting essentially all the eggs in one basket.

809
01:10:40,900 --> 01:10:43,600
And that makes me uncomfortable,

810
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,540
until we have more operating experience.

811
01:10:49,540 --> 01:10:55,980
And that might take a couple of years, three years, five years.

812
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:57,660
I'm not sure what it would actually take.

813
01:11:02,620 --> 01:11:09,820
So that's my big concern with this general philosophy

814
01:11:09,820 --> 01:11:12,620
of uses much pv as we can.

815
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:18,040
Yeah, that's probably the best bet economically, but I don't know.

816
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:22,040
I don't yet have the confidence that we can trust it.

817
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,000
There can be issues with the plant.

818
01:11:25,180 --> 01:11:30,040
There can be issues with the contracting.

819
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:31,180
I don't know how he did.

820
01:11:31,460 --> 01:11:35,420
How he damn works when we get into that.

821
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:38,880
The scheduling issues.

822
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,700
This is a different world we're entering into.

823
01:11:42,700 --> 01:11:53,840
E-DAM is a different world, big PV sources are a different world, and I think we ought to,

824
01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:58,880
I personally would be more comfortable even if it costs us a few extra bucks,

825
01:12:02,570 --> 01:12:15,110
not moving quite as hard towards PV for everything for a while until we have a better handle on

826
01:12:15,110 --> 01:12:27,470
on how this things works. That's common one, common two, as to do with adding additional

827
01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:28,110
storage.

828
01:12:31,890 --> 01:12:37,090
20 years ago solar panels were really expensive and they came down to where

829
01:12:37,090 --> 01:12:44,530
their dirt cheap. So storage seems to be sort of following more or less the same general

830
01:12:44,530 --> 01:12:51,090
curve. It used to be very expensive. It's still quite expensive, but it's coming down also.

831
01:12:52,690 --> 01:13:00,990
The existing technologies are getting less expensive and as you point out, there are promising,

832
01:13:01,830 --> 01:13:06,090
but not necessarily proven new technologies coming along.

833
01:13:06,090 --> 01:13:13,130
But we have a long-term time horizon here, we haven't even pucks to a flat, the storage

834
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:16,970
there that we're talking about is 20 years.

835
01:13:17,670 --> 01:13:23,890
There's going to be other options in 20 years, probably a lot less than that.

836
01:13:24,210 --> 01:13:25,890
Energy don't might be one.

837
01:13:26,170 --> 01:13:34,330
You mentioned iron air batteries that might be an aluminum ion batteries or another one that's

838
01:13:34,330 --> 01:13:40,330
very inexpensive and economical to use for relatively long-term storage.

839
01:13:41,770 --> 01:13:50,950
So, turn, risk, earn, both from what happens if you get the heavy-duty cloud cover, whatever

840
01:13:50,950 --> 01:13:55,710
that reduces your output for day, but even just over to overnight problem.

841
01:13:55,830 --> 01:14:02,750
And as time goes on, the wintertime, nighttime, load, to get much larger.

842
01:14:02,750 --> 01:14:07,870
that'll eventually be our peak load. I don't know if it will be 20 years, but it will

843
01:14:07,870 --> 01:14:17,330
be eventually. We're going to need storage for that, and I don't think that lithium-based

844
01:14:17,330 --> 01:14:26,240
batteries are the solution for that. So I'm a little reluctant to invest a lot more now

845
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,640
in those current technologies.

846
01:14:32,460 --> 01:14:36,060
We could wait five years and want to get past the uncertainties

847
01:14:36,060 --> 01:14:46,080
of starting up Foxdale flats, but also have some hope that other storage technologies

848
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,920
have become...

849
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:07,160
More, more practical. Can't say which is going to be or when or how much, but there's a lot of people

850
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:13,760
who can really hard on a lot of different technologies there. So I'd be reluctant to commit ourselves

851
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,800
now to a lot more lithium-based storage.

852
01:15:22,500 --> 01:15:29,660
Those are my two major concerns at this point that

853
01:15:29,660 --> 01:15:39,060
line up directly with what you're proposing, but that's where you come here. So get different perspectives. That's mine.

854
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:42,880
Other board comments.

855
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:48,000
Chair Gibson, I did want you to let you know that Mr. Schumberg is online.

856
01:15:48,440 --> 01:15:48,860
Oh, good.

857
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,460
Hi, Eric. Welcome back.

858
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:59,180
How much events presentation did you get?

859
01:15:59,180 --> 01:16:06,780
I don't recall the tail end of it, so, you know, I still have questions about batteries because, yes,

860
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:14,840
we've got 320 megawatt hours, 80 megawatt inverter, four hours at full load if we use half of it,

861
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:21,360
it's eight hours, you know, that's going to slide around all over the year, there's still a question,

862
01:16:21,580 --> 01:16:28,820
I mean, they're telling us that we can use 100% of that, but that doesn't, there's a problem there,

863
01:16:28,820 --> 01:16:32,080
because lithium ion batteries, you know,

864
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,540
the sweet spot is to discharge and down to 20

865
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:36,900
and to charge them up to 80.

866
01:16:38,740 --> 01:16:40,640
So there's a couple of anomalies there,

867
01:16:40,780 --> 01:16:42,060
which, you know, we're gonna figure out

868
01:16:42,060 --> 01:16:43,580
as the years go by.

869
01:16:44,060 --> 01:16:47,380
I agree with you, Mr. Gibson, Lithium is not

870
01:16:47,380 --> 01:16:51,520
the Smith-Sluderary Storyage, but thank you.

871
01:16:51,780 --> 01:16:54,660
The, sure, right, so I think we're contracted

872
01:16:54,660 --> 01:16:56,880
for bucks to flats, everything it puts out.

873
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:57,460
That's right.

874
01:16:57,860 --> 01:17:02,260
If it doesn't put it out as much in the summer and it only puts out 70, the clouds come

875
01:17:02,260 --> 01:17:06,800
over and it only puts out 70% of capacity, that means we just sell less to the market.

876
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:08,040
That's not an issue.

877
01:17:08,620 --> 01:17:13,200
It's when things go really haywire, something fails, we lose a mean power transformer,

878
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:19,500
you know, transmission line goes down whatever, 10 inches of snow covers the things and

879
01:17:19,500 --> 01:17:22,700
the production drops down to 5% because they can't shake it off the panels because it

880
01:17:22,700 --> 01:17:29,760
on it. I used them up. Those are the issues high probability of the utilities think about the

881
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:37,180
links or buying other resources. Geothermal nuclear or whatever. Accepted that. Yeah, you could do that.

882
01:17:37,420 --> 01:17:43,760
And they're going to be pretty slow at least two years out to get them running minimum. If you talk

883
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:49,320
Geothermal nuclear, you're talking more like three to ten years. You can get some rice units or some

884
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:55,880
small natural gas fire generators for in probably within a year or two. So that's an option.

885
01:17:56,220 --> 01:17:59,660
Something you could do if you really wanted to have that rampant will dispatchable capability

886
01:17:59,660 --> 01:18:05,660
for load following. You could do that. You could even do it behind the mirror if you wanted to.

887
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:12,480
And there's also financial methods for buying capacity, sort of like buying options. You

888
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:17,180
say, hey, I want to get this capacity for this time period and then you can call on that capacity

889
01:18:17,180 --> 01:18:23,160
to. Again, that comes with a big cost when we looked at this for natural gas, it was just

890
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:27,160
ridiculous costs in the way it worked. I think the electric market would be a little different,

891
01:18:27,580 --> 01:18:32,620
but what we're seeing is that those costs of capacity are very high as well, even if they're

892
01:18:32,620 --> 01:18:37,660
suitable for what we need. So we'd probably use it in a targeted approach in the near term,

893
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:43,300
you know, starting next fiscal year, we'd get it when we needed it, particularly in the winter.

894
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:18,100
I think that chair Gibson mentioned, yeah, that's in our calculations as well. Besides just economics, that's why I mentioned dispatch and the value of dispatchable capacity and things like that. So we're also trying to calculate that in economically, as well as, you know, prudent utility practices and having a diverse generation portfolio.

895
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:25,220
Where the balance point lands in the near term and the longer term is TBD.

896
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:35,900
So I think what I just heard was we're going to have nighttime PPAs anyway and maybe we

897
01:20:35,900 --> 01:20:39,500
buy some insurance because it's really what we want some insurance in case we have one

898
01:20:39,500 --> 01:20:43,440
of these big failures right that you were talking about is that right?

899
01:20:44,860 --> 01:20:50,360
So basically an option on a PPA or would you just go to the daily market and say okay we'll

900
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:51,160
just buy what we need?

901
01:20:51,660 --> 01:20:53,040
That's another way of doing it.

902
01:20:53,180 --> 01:20:58,040
Then you take the risk though if the market, if the whole regions in under a storm condition

903
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:02,740
you're a middle away everybody's everybody's in the same boat whether they have pv or

904
01:21:02,740 --> 01:21:08,000
other resources as well yeah so question is just how much how much money do you want to pay

905
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:12,040
for insurance right I wish you want to mitigate that cost real okay and what do you want to pay for

906
01:21:14,950 --> 01:21:15,210
it

907
01:21:15,210 --> 01:21:17,510
so it all comes back to economics in one where another

908
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:24,990
hello I just wanted to add you know another

909
01:21:24,990 --> 01:21:32,390
risk that maybe next two weeks when Mason Baker here with the u amp's has some question about

910
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:41,810
development timeline risk with data centers around the nation, having to do on-site generation.

911
01:21:42,970 --> 01:21:47,910
These natural gas turbines, transformers, all the electric infrastructure you need to

912
01:21:47,910 --> 01:22:01,590
develop power is being consumed by this private sector, and so the demands up for, you know,

913
01:22:01,590 --> 01:22:08,030
extended out. So they're finding, you know, that they make an order for that. It's a three year

914
01:22:08,030 --> 01:22:14,310
proposition, not one any longer given the data centers or demanding that. So there's a lot of

915
01:22:14,310 --> 01:22:21,270
risks that we get to think about too. So you might want geothermal tomorrow, but it reality is

916
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:28,270
it's, if you started today, it could take five years just to develop it put it on. So if they're

917
01:22:28,270 --> 01:22:29,870
and trying to find it.

918
01:22:30,050 --> 01:22:33,910
Looking tonight, consensus from the border,

919
01:22:34,010 --> 01:22:35,970
you're just looking for what you've gotten so far,

920
01:22:36,070 --> 01:22:39,710
which is random inputs from individual board members.

921
01:22:39,970 --> 01:22:43,790
Chair, board members, I appreciate the informed comments

922
01:22:43,790 --> 01:22:45,510
that you have provided to me tonight.

923
01:22:46,030 --> 01:22:48,010
I'm not specifically looking for anything unless

924
01:22:49,190 --> 01:22:52,170
it's contrary to the vision that I've already presented.

925
01:22:57,180 --> 01:22:59,920
Well, what you presented is we have options,

926
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:02,960
And you're pursuing a number of options.

927
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:08,720
I don't know that anything's been closed off yet,

928
01:23:09,300 --> 01:23:13,740
and that presume we'll have further discussions on this

929
01:23:14,620 --> 01:23:18,200
as those options clarify.

930
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:23,020
When do we think we'll be, when is it again that we're going to be,

931
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:26,160
hope to start getting power from Foxdale fund?

932
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:33,180
where we're not the chair. April, mid-April of 27 is when we expect to get 50% capacity of the PV.

933
01:23:33,540 --> 01:23:39,060
They're about plus or minus the expected give us what they call test energy deliveries in advance

934
01:23:39,060 --> 01:23:46,640
of that as they bring modules and fields online. And then likewise it'll ramp up in some unknown

935
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:53,600
pace where we get full capacity in mid-June. I believe. Oh, gosh, mid end of June.

936
01:23:53,600 --> 01:24:00,260
27, so come July we should and that's when the battery comes long as well, full capacity all at once.

937
01:24:00,780 --> 01:24:04,420
So that's what we anticipate for our planned development schedule.

938
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:09,420
Okay, so come next fiscal year we should be 100% of both the solar and the battery.

939
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:15,030
We're at least we'll have that available.

940
01:24:19,250 --> 01:24:19,250
Okay,

941
01:24:22,270 --> 01:24:24,250
any other last minute comments?

942
01:24:26,490 --> 01:24:28,670
Thank you, Ben, to appreciate it.

943
01:24:28,670 --> 01:24:32,570
Thank you, and welcome multidimensional job you've got here.

944
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,860
That takes us to, I believe,

945
01:25:07,020 --> 01:25:13,700
the DPU 4th quarter of FY26, quarterly report.

946
01:25:16,130 --> 01:25:17,710
And it says,

947
01:25:17,710 --> 01:25:19,670
Abby, is this going to be Abby or Filo?

948
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:30,240
Chair, I was planning to have Abby present, she put in the staff report, the highlights and

949
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:34,400
all right? Yeah. Thank you, Chair Gibson. Members of the board, I'm going to

950
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,520
freeze through this, but please if you find something you want me to stop and linger on

951
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:43,760
let me know. On page 3, a file provided an update on the revenue transfer process and what

952
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:49,400
it means to the county charter, coming this fall, get the right mouse here.

953
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:59,330
Okay. Actually, let's stop there. I did have a question about that as I was reading it.

954
01:25:59,410 --> 01:26:06,910
So I went through the two pages and I was wondering if you could say a little more plainly,

955
01:26:06,910 --> 01:26:11,570
like what is it you want you want to delete item number six I think it was but I didn't

956
01:26:11,570 --> 01:26:19,760
follow like how that was going to actually benefit the dpu I just if you could tell me that

957
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:26,360
or maybe it was just me it could have been late at night I don't know. I'm not sure it's phased correctly

958
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:37,100
here. Okay. Chair and board member not clean I think it's it's a plus and minuses right now revenue

959
01:26:37,100 --> 01:26:43,640
transfer or the profit transfer component that's scheduled each year at the end of each

960
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:54,480
audit. It gets redirected back to projects for DPU to follow public works. And each year,

961
01:26:54,500 --> 01:27:01,240
that could vary what the need is. So you could have most of the money going towards water,

962
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:08,560
line replacements this year I gave the example at Trinity because we have water and gas

963
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:18,240
improvements that are going with this street project. So the reason I did that example is

964
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:26,260
just that's what that money is being used for today and if the voters elect to

965
01:27:26,260 --> 01:27:35,180
eliminate that, that money would not be there. Now, we would collect revenues based on

966
01:27:35,180 --> 01:27:43,200
the current rates in gas, because it's set up to do that 5% revenue transfer.

967
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:46,040
And in this

968
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:54,180
example, I gave that pretty much covered the Trinity project for gas. But if we didn't do it

969
01:27:54,180 --> 01:28:04,000
electric, we wouldn't have that money going to the water project and so a water

970
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:10,760
fund would have to make up that money that would have been transferred from the

971
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,880
electric, you know, go from electric fund to the general fund back to the

972
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:22,760
water fund. It gets redirected into where the dollars are needed. That mechanism

973
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:34,700
would go away. That's what I'm trying to say. You don't want it. Well, no, I'm not taking a position on it. I'm just saying it would change how we do our budgeting.

974
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:51,040
Is right now we do a five-year budget plan for those monies to be redirected. So the existence of paragraph six at the moment enables you to have flexibility to

975
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:55,680
break money to projects where needed at any given year. And if it was gone, you would not have

976
01:28:55,680 --> 01:29:00,940
that flexibility, so you might have some funds running in the black, but you couldn't take

977
01:29:00,940 --> 01:29:07,540
that extra money to put into a development project in some other funds. That's the, those

978
01:29:07,540 --> 01:29:15,120
rest of it, or just of it. It depends on what council chooses. Right now they choose to redirect

979
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:20,620
it to these capital projects that follow public works, they could do it to an economic

980
01:29:20,620 --> 01:29:23,760
development project or they could choose put anywhere else.

981
01:29:24,020 --> 01:29:24,400
General fund.

982
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:34,460
So the risk, I guess the risk is if it does not pass, there's opportunities for those

983
01:29:34,460 --> 01:29:37,480
money to go a lot of different ways at council's choosing.

984
01:29:37,480 --> 01:29:46,720
If the ballot question does pass, we need to, as utility, make adjustments.

985
01:29:47,380 --> 01:29:53,200
It's a follow-up public works type projects, or any other project, there would,

986
01:29:57,820 --> 01:29:58,060
we

987
01:29:58,060 --> 01:29:58,840
you're example.

988
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:08,140
But it varies year to year. That's why it's hard to, you know, it will be a budgeting challenge that

989
01:30:08,140 --> 01:30:23,920
will have to address. Okay. I'm not sure. I see it the same way. Right now, we transfer 5% of gas and electric revenues to the general fund.

990
01:30:25,480 --> 01:30:35,170
for a number, for several years since 2020, Council has directed those back to utilities.

991
01:30:35,850 --> 01:30:37,590
So, it winds up being offsetting transfers.

992
01:30:39,070 --> 01:30:49,230
Now, if this passes those offsetting transfers in, we don't have to, we don't transfer money to the general fund.

993
01:30:49,530 --> 01:30:54,530
Money doesn't come back. It stays here. It stays in utilities, which gives us a good deal.

994
01:30:54,530 --> 01:31:02,130
more flexibility in how and where to spend it. We don't have to make a list of particular

995
01:31:02,130 --> 01:31:11,050
projects that ask council to approve it, which they might or might not do. So what's the

996
01:31:11,050 --> 01:31:19,470
downside? Well, we collect revenues in each fund. Right. Electric gas. Yeah. We can't move money

997
01:31:19,470 --> 01:31:27,930
and less counsel and board on a money legislatively from electric fund, a gas fund.

998
01:31:29,810 --> 01:31:31,290
Or wherever.

999
01:31:33,010 --> 01:31:40,430
So what would happen is we need to budget differently in the water fund or, you know,

1000
01:31:40,630 --> 01:31:46,390
because we won't see a revenue transfer to match the project that's.

1001
01:31:46,390 --> 01:31:51,770
That's true. But if you look at utilities as a whole, it's a zero-sum game.

1002
01:31:53,470 --> 01:32:00,090
As a whole, yes. But it can affect how you select your revenues and charge rates will change.

1003
01:32:01,210 --> 01:32:11,050
That could change. But as a whole, we wind up coming out even and get rid of all the extra

1004
01:32:11,050 --> 01:32:13,190
counting and passing funds back and forth.

1005
01:32:16,010 --> 01:32:19,250
And it's cop, K, and that's why I just use an example.

1006
01:32:19,530 --> 01:32:22,530
Let's say that things will change if this happens.

1007
01:32:23,350 --> 01:32:25,410
And we'll have to deal with it in our budget.

1008
01:32:26,290 --> 01:32:28,610
That sounds like a good problem to have.

1009
01:32:30,330 --> 01:32:31,450
The simplification.

1010
01:32:33,550 --> 01:32:38,510
By the way, that 5% transfer actually started in 1997.

1011
01:32:38,510 --> 01:32:50,410
But before that it was all at Hock, and that year, this 5% transfer was put in, was standardized

1012
01:32:51,250 --> 01:33:03,790
until 2020 when the transfer back was added, which has, so now it's really, it's

1013
01:33:03,790 --> 01:33:06,990
overall for the utility fund of zero-sum game.

1014
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:14,760
That's my comments on page one.

1015
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:23,000
Thank you, Chair Gibson. Our safety employee of the quarter was Patrick Moore,

1016
01:33:23,140 --> 01:33:28,000
his nomination form said he prioritized team safety and developed a work order system to

1017
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:32,360
eliminate complacency in the workplace. He works in the wastewater treatment plant, so it's often

1018
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:38,920
just checklist checklist day and day out kind of thing. So making sure team safety is priority there.

1019
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:48,580
electric distribution. The average, excuse me, they've been busy with some major projects working

1020
01:33:48,580 --> 01:33:53,100
and finishing out some tie lines, prepping for the new transformer and white rock, contracting

1021
01:33:53,100 --> 01:33:58,280
to address the transit pipe, up-sizing electrical access for customers, and in-between

1022
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:03,880
all of that, the electrical team has been handling some significant power outages that are

1023
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:08,380
readable about on page 15 and 16, but I'm not going to dwell on.

1024
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:12,100
If we go to electric production,

1025
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:16,580
the average power, if we go back to this page,

1026
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:21,160
the average power from non-carbon resources for the years about 12%.

1027
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:25,460
We were able to actually get power from both hydroelectric dams in April,

1028
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:30,460
jumping that month's percentage to 19% of non-carbon load.

1029
01:34:31,580 --> 01:34:37,680
I had a question about this graph, just what are the units on the numbers in the table?

1030
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:43,180
In the table, let me refresh my memory.

1031
01:34:44,660 --> 01:34:45,940
Anyway, you just put them in.

1032
01:34:46,260 --> 01:34:46,420
Yeah.

1033
01:34:46,780 --> 01:34:47,580
Whatever they are.

1034
01:34:48,220 --> 01:34:52,880
We get them from the electric production resource loading.

1035
01:34:53,880 --> 01:34:56,200
Ben Yvonne does this chart.

1036
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,400
Do you know what unit she does real quick?

1037
01:34:59,400 --> 01:34:59,960
For the...

1038
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:04,860
The table that's down there. Yeah, five thousand five hundred and sixty nine. What for?

1039
01:35:06,820 --> 01:35:09,400
I just read the numbers. I just read the numbers. Remember, not me.

1040
01:35:10,140 --> 01:35:14,200
That would be made of water. There we go. Do you just put that in the table someplace?

1041
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:15,340
I can add that. Yeah.

1042
01:35:15,340 --> 01:35:16,200
What page are you on, Charlie?

1043
01:35:16,780 --> 01:35:18,200
Twenty-the-one, she's on.

1044
01:35:19,060 --> 01:35:20,780
I just noted that when I was reading through.

1045
01:35:20,980 --> 01:35:24,140
I was like, I got a question about L.R.S. in May and June.

1046
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:29,860
Was there really no, no generation from L.R.S.?

1047
01:35:29,860 --> 01:35:31,820
That's what was recorded in our worksheet.

1048
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:32,640
What happened?

1049
01:35:33,380 --> 01:35:34,320
That's a great question.

1050
01:35:37,490 --> 01:35:38,610
We still have the PPA.

1051
01:35:39,370 --> 01:35:42,330
We're just not taking delivery of energy from that resource.

1052
01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:48,350
With the entry of that resource into SPP's Western Expression,

1053
01:35:49,050 --> 01:35:51,870
we are big at that in four months now.

1054
01:35:52,070 --> 01:35:53,890
That's financially one way that we need to go.

1055
01:35:54,970 --> 01:35:57,290
So let me see if I heard that.

1056
01:35:57,290 --> 01:36:07,510
that he goes into the ECA, which are all very skip to gas water sewer team, they successfully

1057
01:36:07,510 --> 01:36:13,170
completed the Elkridge gas system replacement project during this quarter developed and

1058
01:36:13,170 --> 01:36:17,350
continued with ongoing maintenance of their systems, overhauled the fine screen head

1059
01:36:17,350 --> 01:36:26,750
works, which you can see here, that click give an update about, and that was it.

1060
01:36:26,750 --> 01:36:28,150
I was seeing highlights.

1061
01:36:29,510 --> 01:36:36,010
Engineering is in the middle of a ton of projects and they hosted three summer interns throughout the year.

1062
01:36:36,530 --> 01:36:39,410
Here are a handful of them.

1063
01:36:39,530 --> 01:36:42,050
It's hard to ring all the interns, so here's a handful of them.

1064
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:49,060
I will add that electrical distribution also had a summer intern as well as me.

1065
01:36:49,180 --> 01:36:51,500
So with your like that's more than three and that's four.

1066
01:36:51,620 --> 01:36:55,780
There's actually five and they were scattered throughout the utilities department.

1067
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:03,160
conservation. These are all the projects that I'm skipping over. They're updates.

1068
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:10,260
Conservation in PR. We did Kathy retired in May so we went down to a staff of one and a half.

1069
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:15,960
We continued with most of our regular programming. The work tours and the water production tours were both very

1070
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:19,780
successful over the summer. We have one more water production tour September 11th.

1071
01:37:20,540 --> 01:37:24,700
The Rept tool on the county website continues to be a success.

1072
01:37:25,120 --> 01:37:29,620
It's an estimated 51 hours of staff time saved this last quarter,

1073
01:37:30,540 --> 01:37:32,860
with 613 queries entered.

1074
01:37:33,580 --> 01:37:37,780
I will add real quickly that if you are on the website and use the Rept tool,

1075
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:40,560
which I encourage you to do, if you see it giving

1076
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:44,880
incorrect or you're not interpreting the answer correctly, just let me or

1077
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:55,800
I don't know because we're still continuing to make sure it's pulling the right information and we want to make sure our customers are really seeing that correct information, especially regarding rates and and our utility stuff that's a little more time sensitive.

1078
01:37:56,460 --> 01:37:58,460
I have used it so when I thought it was kind of cool.

1079
01:37:58,740 --> 01:38:01,940
Yeah, it's very handy and they're coming out with a lot of cool stuff.

1080
01:38:03,220 --> 01:38:04,800
It's, you know, it's AI so it's evolving.

1081
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,320
And finance and admin get to their pages.

1082
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:18,900
They give general financial updates, but this time they really focused on where each of those

1083
01:38:18,900 --> 01:38:24,920
utilities fall within targeted set targets, so within each section you can read about where

1084
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:32,140
we are to those set targets. And then the most exciting part of this I think is our staffing

1085
01:38:32,140 --> 01:38:37,540
updates. So we usually include a bunch of staffing updates at the end here, and you can read

1086
01:38:37,540 --> 01:38:44,120
about promotions and new hires and what happened, but we had three employees, Ivankitana,

1087
01:38:44,580 --> 01:38:48,820
Vincent Kerona, and Jennifer Baca, and five degrees between them, this last quarter

1088
01:38:48,820 --> 01:38:49,500
they all graduated.

1089
01:38:50,380 --> 01:38:55,780
So big congratulations to them in addition to our general Cudodos from the county.

1090
01:38:56,700 --> 01:38:58,800
So with that, I'll see you in for any additional questions.

1091
01:39:01,950 --> 01:39:05,010
I just want to say I thought it was nice, I really enjoyed reading it, it was really nice.

1092
01:39:05,010 --> 01:39:05,490
Thank you.

1093
01:39:12,150 --> 01:39:13,010
Thank you.

1094
01:39:13,010 --> 01:39:20,850
mentioned a vacancy for energy and water conservation, is that been been filled?

1095
01:39:21,130 --> 01:39:22,330
Sure, it gets in that has been filled.

1096
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:05,460
Fourth quarter, it wasn't filled, but we did hire her. She started August 17th, and as hit the ground

1097
01:40:05,460 --> 01:40:12,120
running, so you'll hear from her soon. Look forward to it. Thank you. Chair, Eric Scott.

1098
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:14,560
Eric.

1099
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:22,260
Yeah, it's kind of funny. A friend of mine sent me a picture as you tell me Bill and said it to me.

1100
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:28,320
And so the electric bill, the total kill, the total kill, total kill at ours, but then there was

1101
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:33,480
on peak and off peak. And the on peak, if you added the on peak and off peak, they were

1102
01:40:33,480 --> 01:40:42,620
way, way, way over the total. So I'm guessing or I guess my question is how many issues did we

1103
01:40:42,620 --> 01:40:47,480
had with the new building and the building and are those getting resolved? Have they been resolved yet?

1104
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:56,700
Chair, board member, Stromberg, we are still working through many issues of the building.

1105
01:40:56,700 --> 01:41:20,460
The chief issue that's if people looked at their bar chart, it's difficult to compare it to the year before because the billing period will vary from 30 days to almost 60 days during this transition, so you won't get a good month snapshot.

1106
01:41:20,460 --> 01:41:40,980
I know my was for 45 day billing period. So in this case, in this case, let's just say that the total was on the bill showed to be 800 kilowatt hours, let's just say. And if you had the on peak and off peak, it added up maybe to 1,400.

1107
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:52,980
So I might, I might just say that I need to see a copy of what he sent you and we can probably

1108
01:41:52,980 --> 01:41:53,820
talk offline.

1109
01:41:53,860 --> 01:41:54,580
There is all of that.

1110
01:41:54,620 --> 01:42:00,160
I don't think we put this in the quarterly report, but we can, I without to get with you.

1111
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:02,640
I definitely do that and I appreciate that, Father.

1112
01:42:03,020 --> 01:42:08,040
But I guess my question was more of a general question in terms of, I know the billings

1113
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:13,180
have been changed and, you know, there's bumps in the road whenever you change something,

1114
01:42:13,700 --> 01:42:19,780
and has that, do we have confidence that all those bumps in the road are over or we kind

1115
01:42:19,780 --> 01:42:21,540
of still going through a transition period?

1116
01:42:22,500 --> 01:42:24,260
Still gone through transition period.

1117
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:25,060
Okay.

1118
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:25,860
That was my question.

1119
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:26,200
Okay.

1120
01:42:26,220 --> 01:42:26,560
Thanks.

1121
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:28,760
I'll get offline with you about the other one.

1122
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:30,180
Thank you.

1123
01:42:30,260 --> 01:42:30,460
All right.

1124
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:31,620
Thank you.

1125
01:42:36,700 --> 01:42:41,680
other questions or comments on the usual excellent report.

1126
01:42:46,330 --> 01:42:46,770
Thank you, Abby.

1127
01:42:48,090 --> 01:42:49,030
Thank you.

1128
01:42:54,260 --> 01:42:58,720
We move to approval of revisions to the BPU procedural roles

1129
01:42:59,900 --> 01:43:02,680
and reaffirmation by board members.

1130
01:43:04,940 --> 01:43:06,500
This is Kristala.

1131
01:43:08,350 --> 01:43:16,630
Good evening, Mr. Chair. Board members. Percewing to Section 1.5, the BPU reviewed the procedural

1132
01:43:16,630 --> 01:43:23,210
roles at its August 19th meeting, including revisions that were proposed by the Department of

1133
01:43:23,210 --> 01:43:30,970
Public Utilities staff. Those recommendations included revisions to section 4.6,

1134
01:43:31,250 --> 01:43:38,510
right ordinances, and to section 3.3, the annual calendar of EPU activities, and the BPU

1135
01:43:38,510 --> 01:43:46,130
recommended the revisions to section 3.3 to move the approval of the resolution regarding

1136
01:43:46,130 --> 01:43:52,070
uncollectable utility accounts from August to September and also noted that the page numbers

1137
01:43:52,070 --> 01:44:08,490
identified in the table of contents needed to be updated and unfortunately I recommend that you

1138
01:44:08,490 --> 01:44:15,730
Someone may have tried to help fully match the red line to the actual red line document other than to what

1139
01:44:15,730 --> 01:44:23,290
version would be. So this the number that's been struck through in the version provided in your packet

1140
01:44:23,290 --> 01:44:30,310
beginning at 3.3 is actually the correct page number disregard the number in blue to the

1141
01:44:30,310 --> 01:44:36,310
left and you've been provided a version of the red line that has the correct

1142
01:44:36,310 --> 01:44:43,990
Refines page numbers. I believe your clean version has the correct table of contents page numbers.

1143
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:48,630
Okay.

1144
01:44:53,510 --> 01:44:55,570
Questions? Comments?

1145
01:45:02,100 --> 01:45:05,480
I don't want to leave effectively done.

1146
01:45:10,620 --> 01:45:13,880
I guess for this one, I should public comment.

1147
01:45:19,950 --> 01:45:21,570
I don't see any here, Abbey.

1148
01:45:22,410 --> 01:45:28,570
Thank you, Chair Gibbs. Any members of the public on Zoom? Make sure to make a public comment. Please raise your hand.

1149
01:45:29,530 --> 01:45:30,790
Chair Gibbs in there. No hands.

1150
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:33,310
Okay. Thank you.

1151
01:45:33,310 --> 01:45:40,170
Mr. Tara at point nine of the procedural role requires that each year each board member of

1152
01:45:40,170 --> 01:45:45,370
whom that he or she has received read to abide by the procedural roles of the applicable

1153
01:45:45,370 --> 01:45:52,830
documents referenced in its appendix and the reaffirmation signature sheet will be routed for

1154
01:45:52,830 --> 01:45:54,670
signature at the end of the sheet.

1155
01:45:57,700 --> 01:45:59,640
You're going to fly it over to Jenna.

1156
01:46:12,830 --> 01:46:15,370
We'll be distributed through DocuSign.

1157
01:46:15,650 --> 01:46:17,890
We'll get DocuSign on that, okay?

1158
01:46:22,690 --> 01:46:33,590
If there are no further comments, and we think to now now, thank you for, I guess we're ready for motion.

1159
01:46:33,590 --> 01:46:42,170
So, I move to approve revisions to the table of contents and sections 3.3, section 3.3 of the BPU procedural rules.

1160
01:46:43,690 --> 01:46:44,590
I will second that.

1161
01:46:46,910 --> 01:46:50,550
Move in second and to approve the procedural rules.

1162
01:46:52,830 --> 01:46:52,910
Kathy.

1163
01:46:53,790 --> 01:46:54,690
Member Stromberg?

1164
01:46:55,650 --> 01:46:55,730
Yes.

1165
01:46:56,190 --> 01:46:56,830
Member Notkley?

1166
01:46:56,970 --> 01:46:57,290
Yes.

1167
01:46:57,450 --> 01:46:57,990
Member Havender?

1168
01:46:58,230 --> 01:46:58,550
Yes.

1169
01:46:58,850 --> 01:46:59,910
Thank you.

1170
01:47:00,750 --> 01:47:02,430
Motion passes for the zero.

1171
01:47:05,500 --> 01:47:06,160
Thank you.

1172
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:07,340
Thank you, Kristella.

1173
01:47:07,340 --> 01:47:07,480
Now,

1174
01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:27,060
that takes us to item 6E discussion of utility data needs and there's a really long

1175
01:47:27,060 --> 01:47:29,200
complex staff report there.

1176
01:47:35,120 --> 01:47:44,480
So it's kind of the beginning of a discussion, which I thought we ought to have and I'll

1177
01:47:44,480 --> 01:47:52,660
make a few comments to start with and then hopefully we get the input from the board and

1178
01:47:52,660 --> 01:48:00,520
can go forward there. I thought we ought to talk about this because the department has a lot

1179
01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:06,980
of data. Question is, can we make better use of what we have or is there more that we need?

1180
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:12,760
And we have really two kinds of data. We have commodity use data and we have financial data.

1181
01:48:13,700 --> 01:48:17,820
We also have two, well, actually multiple levels of data.

1182
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:24,520
We've got the individual customer, the other and the spectrum we have aggregated data, which is most could be in between.

1183
01:48:24,820 --> 01:48:33,520
And we can figure out, loads on individual feeders, individual distribution trends, which we don't do right now I don't believe.

1184
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:44,420
The board clearly uses individual customer data to generate billing and eventually I'm not suggesting any time.

1185
01:48:44,520 --> 01:48:47,680
We might be able to use that to customers.

1186
01:48:49,680 --> 01:48:58,540
Show their usage patterns over time or comparisons to their neighborhood or type of construction,

1187
01:48:58,540 --> 01:49:01,640
in town site, or the county as a whole,

1188
01:49:02,440 --> 01:49:05,660
I think maybe things that could eventually be done

1189
01:49:05,660 --> 01:49:08,260
there to help the individual customer.

1190
01:49:08,980 --> 01:49:11,540
Aggregate a day is necessary for power scheduling,

1191
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:14,140
water pumping, pumping, planning things like that.

1192
01:49:14,240 --> 01:49:14,820
We already do.

1193
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:20,960
We see aggregated financial data in a fair amount of detail.

1194
01:50:00,780 --> 01:50:09,540
But we don't see a lot of commodity use data or analysis that we can use for policy development in the future.

1195
01:50:12,060 --> 01:50:15,780
for identifying power supply needs,

1196
01:50:19,370 --> 01:50:38,670
distribution upgrade as we're looking at tracking greenhouse gas emissions, for our environmental goals, looking at our water supply, those have been pretty stable for a long, a lot of housing units now.

1197
01:50:38,670 --> 01:50:43,070
And at the same time, we have one of our main wells out of service for

1198
01:50:43,070 --> 01:50:43,870
in perpetuity.

1199
01:50:44,330 --> 01:50:48,150
I don't know that we have a good handle on where we stand there looking forward.

1200
01:50:48,990 --> 01:50:53,050
I think we have data that would tell us that.

1201
01:50:54,870 --> 01:51:01,510
There are, of course, all of them, we're also doing policy development.

1202
01:51:04,930 --> 01:51:12,470
examples where good data analysis can be helpful or not so wrong direction.

1203
01:51:13,910 --> 01:51:22,300
In one of the reports recently, I think was the annual report graph shown that said,

1204
01:51:22,460 --> 01:51:27,300
ah natural gas usage is going down. We've met our 2030 milestone.

1205
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:35,440
Well, it has natural gases correlated to temperatures and temperatures were up, gas usage was

1206
01:51:35,440 --> 01:51:35,920
down.

1207
01:51:36,460 --> 01:51:44,220
If you take that or effort yet have shown meaningful results, well, that's a big difference

1208
01:51:44,220 --> 01:51:46,260
in saying, oh, we've better milestone.

1209
01:51:48,080 --> 01:51:58,740
That's the sort of thing we need to make sure that our analysis is a current one.

1210
01:51:58,880 --> 01:51:59,500
That's a path.

1211
01:52:00,180 --> 01:52:02,040
We've just implemented time one for another.

1212
01:52:02,480 --> 01:52:07,220
Guys are our power resource planning distribution system planning.

1213
01:52:07,980 --> 01:52:13,440
There's a lot that flows from several years where to tell what changes have occurred

1214
01:52:13,440 --> 01:52:22,460
When we implemented place to track, we'll have it, when we want to look at it, which is we rely

1215
01:52:22,460 --> 01:52:30,320
now almost exclusively on education, but do we really know whom to target, and do we know

1216
01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:30,980
what's working,

1217
01:52:33,100 --> 01:52:40,170
the, which we've known for a long time, residential uses, users are

1218
01:52:40,170 --> 01:52:50,830
users, just using group, should say. We have a number of the classified as commercial,

1219
01:52:51,150 --> 01:52:56,770
actually not all commercial. Some of those are residential. A little bit more parsing of that,

1220
01:52:56,890 --> 01:53:04,330
not for billing purposes, not for changing rates, but for B. We could get more information out

1221
01:53:04,330 --> 01:53:14,650
that. And then could potentially look at various subgroups and target them for more education,

1222
01:53:15,090 --> 01:53:22,210
like the largest individual customers, for all government homes, for instance, as a group.

1223
01:53:24,230 --> 01:53:31,160
And then, of course, when we look at all of our environmental goals,

1224
01:53:34,100 --> 01:53:34,660
the general

1225
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:18,440
It's not very useful. It's annual. It's not monthly or any finer grade. Be it's one year, 2022, which was not here anyway, coming out of the pandemic. And there's some very large errors in it that make it qualitatively useless.

1226
01:55:18,440 --> 01:55:24,840
Now, it doesn't affect policy right now, because we know all of our primary energy sources

1227
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:27,220
are large, and all of them need to be reduced.

1228
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:36,600
The only thing it really changes is, it says the transportation is our biggest greenhouse

1229
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:40,580
gas emission source, and that's not really true with natural gas.

1230
01:55:42,660 --> 01:55:46,540
But that doesn't make a huge difference right now, and it's said all of them need to be reduced.

1231
01:55:46,540 --> 01:55:58,320
But over time if we're going to track progress, we need to be able to see small variations because we're going to be looking at a few percent at a time.

1232
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:02,700
And those might not even be at single event incidents.

1233
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:05,120
They might be a few percent over a few years.

1234
01:56:06,140 --> 01:56:16,200
We got to have good data, reliable data, and consistent methodologies to be able to see those things.

1235
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:23,660
Because we're going to have to mine progress out of that kind of data.

1236
01:56:24,580 --> 01:56:34,160
And also look at what happens in response to events, policies, programs, etc.

1237
01:56:36,620 --> 01:56:39,460
That's how we're going to tell what's working and what's not.

1238
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:54,460
So we, utilities, has most of that one form or another, but I think we need to ask as from a board perspective what would be useful to us.

1239
01:56:54,460 --> 01:56:57,900
You know, count,

1240
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:04,780
file on a staff can't produce everything tomorrow, although we do have

1241
01:57:04,780 --> 01:57:10,620
a data analyst and now we have an energy and water coordinator again, conservation coordinator

1242
01:57:10,620 --> 01:57:11,540
again.

1243
01:57:12,900 --> 01:57:15,300
So, you know, we can wait till next week or something like that.

1244
01:57:16,180 --> 01:57:25,780
Anyway, what are people think would be useful and useful in particular to us and use

1245
01:57:25,780 --> 01:57:40,900
So now, it might be useful in the future, so that maybe we can start thinking about, how do we analyze this mass of data that we have and make use of it?

1246
01:57:48,850 --> 01:57:56,210
I think, thank you for opening this discussion, and first I'd say I think we're all in favor of more and better use of the data.

1247
01:57:56,210 --> 01:57:59,130
But all data, I think you were scared to run some of them all over the world.

1248
01:57:59,130 --> 01:58:00,510
Sorry, I thought we are.

1249
01:58:01,050 --> 01:58:04,210
So I guess maybe my thoughts to sort of sharpen the discussion

1250
01:58:04,210 --> 01:58:08,010
where I think we might focus is asking who's the end user.

1251
01:58:08,290 --> 01:58:11,230
So I think you posted is what do we need for policy decisions.

1252
01:58:11,430 --> 01:58:12,230
I think that's one of them.

1253
01:58:12,370 --> 01:58:15,330
But I think it's also, how do we empower staff to use data better?

1254
01:58:15,770 --> 01:58:17,250
And then, as we're thinking about this,

1255
01:58:17,910 --> 01:58:18,690
customers as well.

1256
01:58:19,030 --> 01:58:23,770
So those are the three cases of how do we empower everybody to use the data better?

1257
01:58:23,770 --> 01:58:36,550
And I think identifying the opportunities are the needs is important and there's a few that you talk through, but I think the other part to consider what's the biggest friction point or why.

1258
01:58:36,830 --> 01:58:38,590
Where's the challenging using data better?

1259
01:58:39,430 --> 01:58:44,430
And my experience has been 90% of data analysis is data preparation and data management.

1260
01:58:44,430 --> 01:58:58,270
And so I think thinking about how we're managing all this data or how we can access this data might be addressing that, might open up data usage to all the end users perhaps.

1261
01:58:58,770 --> 01:59:00,550
That's my thought on it.

1262
01:59:03,330 --> 01:59:09,310
And I really, you know, there's so many different cases that you offered that I resonated with where I would really like data.

1263
01:59:09,310 --> 01:59:12,330
I play around with my house and try different experiments.

1264
01:59:12,750 --> 01:59:14,270
And I don't know if I'm typical or not,

1265
01:59:14,270 --> 01:59:16,830
you know, I've got anecdot, anecdotes.

1266
01:59:17,310 --> 01:59:19,410
And I think we've struggled with that often

1267
01:59:19,410 --> 01:59:22,850
of where my bill said or I got this one bill.

1268
01:59:23,090 --> 01:59:27,570
So I think we need better data management, data utilization.

1269
01:59:29,710 --> 01:59:32,870
And I think what are the best needs

1270
01:59:33,450 --> 01:59:35,350
and also where they're easy opportunities.

1271
01:59:35,630 --> 01:59:38,750
So I'm thinking if we think about data management

1272
01:59:38,750 --> 01:59:40,630
from the Utilities Perspective,

1273
01:59:43,460 --> 01:59:45,780
I see a lot of interest from people in the community.

1274
01:59:45,860 --> 01:59:50,080
If we make the data available, I think citizens would be interested in playing around with it.

1275
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:53,080
I don't know if they're student projects, I mean I think people are looking for good data sets.

1276
01:59:53,240 --> 01:59:58,380
And I think we've seen a couple of partnerships with some of the local universities where they've exploited data.

1277
02:00:00,340 --> 02:00:27,380
Let me think of where are some friction points? I mean, where are there privacy issues? There's a few things that we'll get in and they'll be snarling. So I think asking staff, you know, or council, or the lawyers, where do we run into issues that we really need to think about privacy issues? The personal is a come to mind. So to summarize that, I think we're the biggest hindances to using data. I think everybody would use data if we could get it.

1278
02:00:27,380 --> 02:00:31,400
And then, where are the opportunities and where are the biggest needs for policy?

1279
02:00:32,040 --> 02:00:36,700
So, I have more questions than answers, but I think the discussion is really right.

1280
02:00:37,480 --> 02:00:38,640
So, I'd start with that. Thanks.

1281
02:00:43,320 --> 02:00:48,460
Assuming that all the data would be necessarily made public.

1282
02:00:48,620 --> 02:00:53,160
I could imagine that for the Department of the Board, there could be more data,

1283
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:57,720
or more fine-grained data potentially used. I would imagine. Or, I could imagine.

1284
02:00:58,600 --> 02:01:00,680
I don't know. I don't know how that works with Open Media.

1285
02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:05,130
Right, everything we do is public and I think that's one of the unique things about the county

1286
02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:09,100
Even individual customer data is public

1287
02:01:09,100 --> 02:01:14,140
Something maybe there's not really an issue then but we want to be sensitive to of course

1288
02:01:14,140 --> 02:01:16,000
Yeah, but

1289
02:01:20,380 --> 02:01:22,670
yeah, I think that's one of the unique things about the county data says

1290
02:01:23,260 --> 02:01:30,210
County owns publicly on it's pretty open, so that's where I might get I don't know

1291
02:01:30,210 --> 02:01:34,930
Yeah, but maybe there's other universities that look at what would want a data set that they couldn't get from a

1292
02:01:34,930 --> 02:01:39,430
privately owned utility. So let's sort of think about it in terms of opportunities we

1293
02:01:39,430 --> 02:01:41,170
may have a unique data set.

1294
02:01:52,870 --> 02:01:56,550
I'll just give you a little experience I had with the

1295
02:01:56,550 --> 02:02:02,730
pathways as zero natural gas we did have the university do the open records request

1296
02:02:02,730 --> 02:02:08,730
to collect the data that they needed and it was substantial amount of data over several

1297
02:02:08,730 --> 02:02:17,310
years. They have super computing capacity. We don't. So there's also some technology and

1298
02:02:17,310 --> 02:02:23,650
how much you want to dive down into the data and manipulate it that we don't necessarily have

1299
02:02:23,650 --> 02:02:30,410
the resources to do that depending on, you know, if you're modeling something and

1300
02:02:30,410 --> 02:02:38,810
need hourly data and over several years, etc. They did that analysis for us as part

1301
02:02:38,810 --> 02:02:39,810
of that study.

1302
02:02:41,830 --> 02:02:47,350
And so those are some of the things. Privacy, there are some customers

1303
02:02:47,350 --> 02:02:53,470
that don't want to share data. Now, when you go through the April, it's not prohibited.

1304
02:02:53,470 --> 02:03:00,190
but, you know, if you want to see your neighbors data, you'd have to

1305
02:03:00,190 --> 02:03:01,270
it breath that.

1306
02:03:05,910 --> 02:03:08,350
We wouldn't just give it to you. You'd have to go through

1307
02:03:08,350 --> 02:03:15,610
those channels. To take time, it's another layer of work that we run through our

1308
02:03:18,510 --> 02:03:21,050
public inspection of public records act.

1309
02:03:25,540 --> 02:03:31,360
For most of our purposes, of course, it can be

1310
02:03:31,360 --> 02:03:40,400
start looking at it for our department purposes, board purposes, et cetera. We don't care

1311
02:03:40,400 --> 02:03:48,600
too much about the individual, we care about the aggregate, maybe small aggregate. It's like

1312
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:53,440
it might be neighborhood or it might be feeder or it might be even an individual distribution

1313
02:03:53,440 --> 02:03:57,340
transform or something that eventually, not today probably.

1314
02:03:59,260 --> 02:04:03,220
And of course, you know, we're looking at

1315
02:04:06,190 --> 02:04:07,690
overall use patterns.

1316
02:04:08,430 --> 02:04:10,570
That's, you know, aggregated a lot.

1317
02:04:11,630 --> 02:04:14,590
But as I mentioned, we might eventually be able to help the individual

1318
02:04:14,590 --> 02:04:19,230
customer by providing customized reports back to them.

1319
02:04:20,490 --> 02:04:22,710
You know, once you've got an algorithm that can do that,

1320
02:04:22,710 --> 02:04:30,490
doesn't take a whole lot to do a lot of them when she had that algorithm, and that would

1321
02:04:30,490 --> 02:04:39,010
be their own data and other neighbors, but unless it is in an aggregate of form.

1322
02:04:40,450 --> 02:04:44,650
There are issues in there, but I think those are not big issues.

1323
02:04:44,650 --> 02:04:56,130
I can be wrong, but I think there's a lot that can be learned without running

1324
02:04:58,210 --> 02:04:59,870
into those kinds of concerns.

1325
02:05:02,380 --> 02:05:17,560
So, I would say, I mean, just thinking about a little bit off the cuff, the data we would like, I think, from a board perspective, would be data that would be useful to help formulate or inform an integrated resource planning process, right?

1326
02:05:17,560 --> 02:05:23,440
That seems to be at least one application that would be very useful to have on a probably a much finer

1327
02:05:25,080 --> 02:05:31,420
more frequent timescale to make it useful in dynamic times and perhaps more fine-grained

1328
02:05:31,420 --> 02:05:32,740
in various dimensions.

1329
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:37,120
So that seems like that would be something quite useful.

1330
02:05:37,500 --> 02:05:44,020
Are you thinking IRP as we currently use it that is strictly for electric or integrated resource planning?

1331
02:05:44,160 --> 02:05:46,740
I think you're going to be for anything, right?

1332
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:47,760
That's what I would think too.

1333
02:05:47,760 --> 02:06:03,900
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, you'd like to be able to, I think Matt's right that the first thing is getting data quality and data health make sure it's on like format it correctly and usable and the missing field to manage or whatever that that makes a lot and it's accurate right there's not

1334
02:06:04,480 --> 02:06:10,260
You know, things that are wrong about it, that would be, and easily available and easily

1335
02:06:10,260 --> 02:06:11,080
ingestible.

1336
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:17,260
And then I think, you know, then the real, the real meat of it is formulating a model to fit

1337
02:06:17,260 --> 02:06:20,600
and then fitting the data and then trying to use that to make predictions with uncertainties

1338
02:06:20,600 --> 02:06:25,000
and I think that would be what we would need for some sort of planning process for all

1339
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:25,680
of our resources.

1340
02:06:30,530 --> 02:06:35,570
Yeah, going, the model is going forward to the hard part, but you can learn a lot by looking

1341
02:06:35,570 --> 02:06:36,390
back also.

1342
02:06:36,390 --> 02:06:43,360
We would like to see what the trends are and gas and if you can establish correlations to policy

1343
02:06:43,360 --> 02:06:46,740
Things that were done at some point, for example,

1344
02:06:49,010 --> 02:06:52,110
and as you say you're looking for fine effects, right?

1345
02:06:52,330 --> 02:06:55,210
Yeah, we're going to be yes.

1346
02:07:02,920 --> 02:07:04,340
Yeah, I guess maybe I don't know.

1347
02:07:04,440 --> 02:07:06,800
File is this an easy question to answer.

1348
02:07:07,500 --> 02:07:09,440
How what's the state of the data?

1349
02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:10,900
Is it accessible?

1350
02:07:11,180 --> 02:07:11,740
Is it uniform?

1351
02:07:11,780 --> 02:07:13,100
Is it machine ingestable?

1352
02:07:13,660 --> 02:07:15,980
Or is it in different servers and your notebook?

1353
02:07:18,470 --> 02:07:25,690
It's not, it's, the data's not consolidated in, you know, and one guru managing data.

1354
02:07:25,850 --> 02:07:26,830
We don't have that.

1355
02:07:29,930 --> 02:07:34,550
It's basically, there'll be financial data in our finance system.

1356
02:07:34,950 --> 02:07:38,090
Ben has data on, you know, hourly purchases.

1357
02:07:38,930 --> 02:07:40,810
They're in a lot of different software packages.

1358
02:07:41,090 --> 02:07:47,890
And so it is challenging to extract it and then re-manipulate it and use it.

1359
02:07:49,490 --> 02:07:54,430
Yeah, it seems to me like that's the big challenge if we had three different top priorities.

1360
02:07:54,570 --> 02:07:59,170
It would be a huge effort to address each of those and then we come back with one in six months and it's reinvented.

1361
02:07:59,330 --> 02:08:01,810
So I don't know what investing in it.

1362
02:08:01,890 --> 02:08:04,890
If we really want to get serious about utilizing our data,

1363
02:08:06,110 --> 02:08:08,810
what does it look like investing in better data management?

1364
02:08:09,910 --> 02:08:12,870
And what would the benefit be to staff to custom-type everybody?

1365
02:08:16,410 --> 02:08:18,250
I think that's something we'd have to wrestle with.

1366
02:08:19,620 --> 02:08:29,730
I certainly don't know all of the reports that the Department generates internally, but there

1367
02:08:29,730 --> 02:08:36,610
are certainly some that already exist the consumption report, for instance.

1368
02:08:37,450 --> 02:08:43,570
It tells you every month how much for each utility, how much of the commodity is used

1369
02:08:43,570 --> 02:08:50,090
by residential, by commercial, by the county, by educational institutions,

1370
02:08:52,710 --> 02:08:54,070
and that's been

1371
02:08:54,070 --> 02:08:58,550
in a more or less consistent form for a long time,

1372
02:09:01,870 --> 02:09:05,790
but there's information there, kind

1373
02:09:05,790 --> 02:09:12,290
of gross information, the aggregate information that hasn't been used for anything.

1374
02:09:16,950 --> 02:09:32,210
There's lots of, you know, I've plotted that up for the last 25 years plus, and you can see lots of different things there that you don't see when you just look at annual or more versed data.

1375
02:09:33,810 --> 02:09:44,710
Like the double humped double peaked usage of electricity during the year, and of course you see the seasonal variations and cashews that you'd expect.

1376
02:09:45,210 --> 02:09:53,050
But it tells you exactly what those variations are and how they correlate those two outside air temperature.

1377
02:09:54,030 --> 02:09:59,490
I think we actually have the data to the hour I only used it to the month.

1378
02:10:02,680 --> 02:10:12,440
But there's a lot that already exists. It doesn't. But you have to get it and use it for something.

1379
02:10:13,780 --> 02:10:18,580
So, but my question really is, what's useful to us

1380
02:10:21,010 --> 02:10:25,470
in, of course, five of us to tell us, what's useful to the department?

1381
02:10:26,390 --> 02:10:28,190
And then what can we realistically do?

1382
02:10:30,030 --> 02:10:35,510
Maybe I think the value in the effect of the time of use is going to be our test case of that.

1383
02:10:35,890 --> 02:10:42,530
And so we'll look forward to the report on what was the impact of the rate change and the rate structure of the time of use in the peak demand.

1384
02:10:43,410 --> 02:10:47,750
But I guess maybe if there's an appendix to that that says this state it was easy.

1385
02:10:48,530 --> 02:10:55,090
We had to go out and get this data because I can imagine it's going to be financial data usage data.

1386
02:10:55,090 --> 02:11:00,290
And I don't know what, you know, co-factors there might be, you know, you get a couple of examples,

1387
02:11:00,610 --> 02:11:04,210
chair that, you know, you wouldn't consider the co-factors and did you have to go out,

1388
02:11:04,490 --> 02:11:10,730
pull weather data from somebody else's site, so I think maybe an appendix on how, how is the data

1389
02:11:10,730 --> 02:11:14,370
utilization for the evaluation of the time you used to might be a good way to get at some of these

1390
02:11:14,370 --> 02:11:14,830
questions?

1391
02:11:17,260 --> 02:11:18,560
That's certainly a timely one.

1392
02:11:18,840 --> 02:11:19,900
We don't.

1393
02:11:19,960 --> 02:11:24,280
You know, it hasn't been in place long enough that we can do it any with it today, like I said,

1394
02:11:24,280 --> 02:11:27,200
I think we need a baseline to work from.

1395
02:11:27,700 --> 02:11:36,600
So what a data for the last five years or something might be useful as a baseline.

1396
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:43,160
Get that working and then it's easy to, if you've got a good methodology, just to carry

1397
02:11:43,160 --> 02:11:51,500
it forward as we start seeing the effects or maybe there won't be much effect.

1398
02:11:51,500 --> 02:11:55,660
We don't know, but potential effects, as we say,

1399
02:11:57,860 --> 02:12:01,140
over the next year or two may be longer.

1400
02:12:10,300 --> 02:12:17,020
A really high level one that I can think of is, I don't have a good field where we are

1401
02:12:17,020 --> 02:12:24,420
on water, and now the 40-year water plan will probably answer that question, but we shouldn't

1402
02:12:24,420 --> 02:12:35,880
a week for 40-year water plan to update our usage data and of course supply as an issue also

1403
02:12:35,880 --> 02:12:40,980
with the well being by out of service. How much can we really get?

1404
02:12:43,240 --> 02:12:45,300
So we're adding more housing

1405
02:12:45,300 --> 02:12:53,640
units but most of those are multi-family units which don't have irrigation needs.

1406
02:12:53,640 --> 02:12:59,840
Well, we ought to be able to look at existing multi-family units and see what their water

1407
02:12:59,840 --> 02:13:07,400
usage is versus the single-family units that typically have irrigation and be able to

1408
02:13:07,400 --> 02:13:16,000
extrapolate from there as to if we add x housing units, how much water demand increase might

1409
02:13:16,000 --> 02:13:22,980
we see the 40-year water plan may do all of that. I don't know. If not, it's something

1410
02:13:22,980 --> 02:13:30,210
that we're going to need. Probably fairly soon, just another example.

1411
02:13:34,720 --> 02:13:36,140
And I would guess

1412
02:13:36,810 --> 02:13:43,520
with the issue out on the table. People start thinking more about what we really like to

1413
02:13:43,520 --> 02:13:43,880
know.

1414
02:13:47,580 --> 02:13:53,340
Some of it may already exist, it just isn't here. Or we can see it. You can see it.

1415
02:13:53,340 --> 02:14:04,110
But we might be able to make better use, make it more visible to where department or board

1416
02:14:04,110 --> 02:14:05,630
can make use of it.

1417
02:14:08,610 --> 02:14:11,370
So what do you think in caps on this subject will probably come back?

1418
02:14:14,760 --> 02:14:16,280
Yeah, it kind of looks like it.

1419
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:17,560
Did you have a comment?

1420
02:14:22,220 --> 02:14:26,700
So, I just, so happened, could you give your name, both of the two, please?

1421
02:14:26,700 --> 02:14:27,320
James Ornicky.

1422
02:14:28,540 --> 02:14:43,400
I did do some analysis, I did an Ipra for the 2025 utility data like consumer data and it wasn't too bad to work with a couple like points of feedback.

1423
02:14:44,020 --> 02:14:53,600
There was like no labels on anything. So basically what I had to do is like find, you know, my data and match it to my utility to build it like figure out what things were.

1424
02:14:53,600 --> 02:14:59,960
So like the type of utility is like it's just a code, it's not like it doesn't take gas.

1425
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:17,280
This is like 30, 100 or something, right? But when you look at the values, you know, you can match up the values and then figure out what's what the water comes in like hundreds of gallons is the unit that's used there.

1426
02:15:17,420 --> 02:15:29,720
So that was like a little weird to figure out. So that's just kind of my feedback is to have some labels there, especially if it's like a university that they don't have their own utility bills to look at.

1427
02:15:29,720 --> 02:15:38,480
match up with. But other than that, it was pretty easy to work with. If you publish the

1428
02:15:38,480 --> 02:15:44,360
data, like put it up on the utility website or something, like as a big data set, and

1429
02:15:44,360 --> 02:15:49,520
you know, you can pull out names if you want. The parcels can be useful. That was like the main

1430
02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:56,820
thing I was using it for was as a proxy for vacant housing. My theory was that if there's no water

1431
02:15:56,820 --> 02:16:02,820
usage in a house. There's probably nobody live in there. And so that's why I wanted to look at it.

1432
02:16:03,940 --> 02:16:10,600
But I just pulled one year, request one year, didn't want to like put too much burden on the department.

1433
02:16:11,480 --> 02:16:19,060
But yeah, if you have more years, I would I would love to see that data. So that's it. Thank you.

1434
02:16:19,060 --> 02:16:19,300
you.

1435
02:16:27,600 --> 02:16:30,000
There's lots of data nerds in this community.

1436
02:16:31,760 --> 02:16:33,440
Is there any other public comment?

1437
02:16:36,070 --> 02:16:36,970
Happy to have anyone?

1438
02:16:41,530 --> 02:16:45,230
Would you like a public comment on your gifts in this item or general public comment?

1439
02:16:45,650 --> 02:16:46,970
Right now this item

1440
02:16:51,060 --> 02:16:54,300
will ask for general public comment in just a few minutes.

1441
02:16:54,300 --> 02:17:00,920
Hi, John parchment, I just spent 20 minutes of my life wasted basically being answered by AI.

1442
02:17:01,820 --> 02:17:03,120
That's what AI does.

1443
02:17:03,720 --> 02:17:08,500
It analyzes data, sees trend lines, and finds things that you may not have seen in the data.

1444
02:17:09,340 --> 02:17:15,820
So get a $20 chat, GPT license, throw your data into it, you might be surprised if what you get back.

1445
02:17:16,660 --> 02:17:18,840
So, thank you. Hey, did 20 seconds look at that.

1446
02:17:19,540 --> 02:17:20,300
Thank you.

1447
02:17:23,150 --> 02:17:29,910
Any other public comment either here or online anyone wishing to make public comment online please raise your hand now

1448
02:17:30,570 --> 02:17:39,690
There are no hands triggers. Okay, thank you and that takes us to our final public comment on any subject

1449
02:17:39,690 --> 02:17:42,330
Do we have any

1450
02:17:42,330 --> 02:17:44,510
Other public comment this evening?

1451
02:17:44,950 --> 02:17:47,030
I don't see any here

1452
02:17:50,040 --> 02:17:50,980
the back there is.

1453
02:18:05,560 --> 02:18:10,640
Sorry I wrote this in 12 point font and it's now like in 2.8 micro font so

1454
02:18:11,440 --> 02:18:18,080
hang with me for a moment. You guys have had a hell of a month. I mean that's quite a month

1455
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:23,620
yet there. I can't say it was for the best but is what it is. I'm going to keep these short obviously

1456
02:18:23,620 --> 02:18:29,180
because I only have a short period of time. But basically EV charging I'll start with that one.

1457
02:18:29,180 --> 02:18:38,840
You guys charge 58 cents per kilowatt hour for EV charging, Tesla charges be 38 cents for a level 4 charger.

1458
02:18:39,920 --> 02:18:41,600
You guys are the charger of last resort.

1459
02:18:42,920 --> 02:18:49,620
So if you wonder why you lose money every period on EV chargers, it's because your rate is too high.

1460
02:18:50,460 --> 02:18:52,900
Nobody in the right mind would actually use them.

1461
02:18:52,900 --> 02:18:59,620
So if you want to expand the EV charging network, if you want to have it utilized, you're going to have to change the rates.

1462
02:19:00,500 --> 02:19:02,600
You've at 87% profit margin.

1463
02:19:03,400 --> 02:19:05,820
I'm EV power, and you still lose money.

1464
02:19:08,760 --> 02:19:15,000
Your electrical rates, I'll get the second point here is a electrical rate process is bonkers.

1465
02:19:15,000 --> 02:19:24,980
Um, I don't know if any municipalities that use search pricing search arch in their rate and it's just doesn't make sense.

1466
02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:30,280
Residents or customers can't change their usage pattern to meet that.

1467
02:19:30,960 --> 02:19:41,920
So, if you want to tell somebody that they need to buy a smaller dryer, so it doesn't use up so much power when it fires off. Good luck with that. Really appreciate that thought.

1468
02:19:45,310 --> 02:19:46,610
Try to keep this short.

1469
02:19:47,150 --> 02:19:48,530
You guys are looking at the plug-in solar

1470
02:19:48,530 --> 02:19:52,230
for just general, put things in,

1471
02:19:52,230 --> 02:19:53,430
do not charge $500.

1472
02:19:54,830 --> 02:19:56,350
To put it in, that is goofy.

1473
02:19:58,190 --> 02:19:59,950
You will never make back any month.

1474
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:08,680
On that, and you're going to just basically kill it. So, it doesn't make any sense. Just go with you all 3700 and move on. It's really simple.

1475
02:20:11,880 --> 02:20:19,800
Batteries, who 50 seconds. Batteries. Your number one thing is batteries. I appreciate the presentation that was made earlier.

1476
02:20:21,180 --> 02:20:29,740
But the reality is that people are putting batteries in and that levels your use charges, and you also have vehicle, the great, good vehicle.

1477
02:20:30,720 --> 02:20:38,020
opportunities for battery storage. You kind of overbuilt the flats, but hey, that is where it is.

1478
02:20:38,160 --> 02:20:46,020
Oh, I'm sorry. Get batteries, instead of size, batteries and micro grids. And you will solve your problem.

1479
02:20:46,820 --> 02:20:52,500
That's where it really belongs. It's localized batteries and micro grids. So thank you for your time.

1480
02:20:53,180 --> 02:20:53,980
Thank you.

1481
02:20:56,870 --> 02:20:58,670
Any other comment, public comment?

1482
02:21:01,140 --> 02:21:05,300
Anyone wishing to make public comment online please raise your hand?

1483
02:21:05,940 --> 02:21:06,880
There are no hands raised.

1484
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:10,320
Okay, thanks everyone.

1485
02:21:10,880 --> 02:21:12,900
I do appreciate it and we are adjourned.