Recording in progress. >> Good evening. It is August 25th is
special meeting of the Lewisville City Council.
Can we get a roll call, please?
» Mayor Lee >> here.
Uh, Council Member Hamilton. Oh, sorry. Uh, Mayor Prom Hamilton
» here. >> Council member Dickinson
» here. >> Council member Fe
here. >> Council member Hefner
» here. >> Council member Coopermanman
» here. >> And council member Kern present.
If you'd join me as able for the pledge of allegiance. Great.
Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
» Welcome all. Um we have tonight uh several things on
the agenda but the first one is joint meeting with uh library board of
trustees. So welcome to the meeting all of you. Um, I think before we go any
further, probably good to introduce ourselves to you, uh, and you, uh, to
us, even though we've met before. Um, so perhaps we can start with you,
Jamie. >> I am Turn this on. Good evening. I'm
Jamie Drain. I've been a resident of Lewisville for nine years and on the
library board of trustees for eight years now. Way back, this is my last
time here. I hearken all the way back to the day when council members used to
come and sit in on our meetings. And I would like to say this is an auspicious
board to be related to because our most recent mayors Chris and Ashley were both
our representatives to the library board. So politically, I I just want to
point that out.
And then hi everyone. Uh my name is Ally Benz. I've been living in Lewisville for
about three years now. Um and I've been this is the second year that I've been
on the board. Um I don't have nearly the credentials that you do uh in terms of
the uh history year, but I am happy to be here.
» Hi, I'm Jean Baker. Um I am the newest um board member here. This is my first
year serving and I've lived in Lewisville for eight years now.
» Hello, my name is Cheryl October. Um, I've been on the board three years I
guess and I'm actually the superior representative. Um, very very pleased to
be here and to meet all of you. >> Good evening. My name is Laurel Cole.
Um, I have lived in Lewisville for six years now. This is my fifth year on the
board and my third year as chair. Um, and we're so happy to be here tonight.
» Great. Go ahead. >> Hi everyone. I'm Samma Fox. I'm the
deputy city manager. >> Hi, I'm Diana Langley, city manager.
» Uh, Judy Kern. I'm W 2 representative. >> Caleb Dickinson, ward one.
» Deb Fehey, W two. >> Crystal, mayor.
Barbara Hamilton, w three. >> Josh Coopermanman, ward one.
» Dietrich Hefner, W three. Thanks for coming.
» Brandy Cummings, director of cultural services.
» Right. I think um the first thing on tap tonight is presentation.
Um not sure how how are you handling is one person doing the presenting or
multiple? We're all going to share what we value about the Lewisville Public
Library tonight. And Brandy has a slideshow up there that she will be
driving as as we talk uh this evening. >> Um I did want to mention we are missing
three board members this evening. Um Carol Burkett was our alter alternate
representative from Superior and she is moving out of state as of this summer.
So we will be working with the town of Superior to find a replacement for her.
Heather Wigan has served for almost three years now and she is also moving
out of state very unfortunately. She's been a really wonderful member of our
board. And Alan Halpern, this is his second year serving and he is out of
town just this week to celebrate a family member's 90th birthday. So I
believe Brandy sent an email to you all of a statement from him. He wishes he
could be here but wanted to send his thoughts as well.
Okay. So last year I was here last spring presenting to all of you and I'm
so happy to be joined by the board this evening and it's not just me. Um but
last year we had quite a laundry list of things that we were wanting to
accomplish as a library board and we wanted to support uh your master plan
and your priorities. We have worked on some of those things but we've also
faced a few obstacles in the last year and a half. Um, we have onboarded a new
director. Not an obstacle, but a wonderful opportunity. Um, and we're so
glad that Brandy is here. It's been a long day. Um, and we only
meet once every other month. So, you know, maybe that's something we can
discuss in the future about maybe meeting a little bit more, maybe monthly
with all that is on our plate. Um we have also learned more from the state
libraries and also dug into state statute and uh city statutes as well
about more of our responsibilities. Um so it's really been a learning year for
us. Um we have put together or Brandy has put together matters pertaining to
budget for us. That's not something we have done in the past is really advise
her on budget areas and really get more in involved in those details. Um, we
have also been updating library um, policies, which we did a little bit uh,
with Sharon, the former director, but Brandy seems to have more of a master
plan and we're going through and making sure all the the policies are relevant
and applicable to libraries today. Um, and we've also learned that we need to
do some of our own education. So, that's been fun, really learning what our
responsibilities are as um, a board of trustees of a Colorado library. So, it's
been a great year for us and we're so glad that Bry's here leading the way for
us. Um, in our last meeting, I brought up the
idea that the we as a board really felt that the library was a core service here
in Lewisville. Now, granted, we are not water, we are not sewer, we are not
police, we are not fire. However, in our our last meeting, Brandy brought up the
the idea of a core quality of life service and that really resonated with
us. You'll hear from all the board members tonight about how we really
connect to the library and we feel it's really the living room of the city of
Lewisville and it means many different things to us and also to our fellow
residents in Lewisville and Superior. So, we're hoping tonight to share some
stories about what we value at the library, but also show you some numbers
about how we think other residents value the library as well. Um, I think
everyone who walks into the library can see the value right away of our
beautiful building, the outstanding collection that we have, the beautiful
community spaces. I mean, the library really speaks for itself. Um, but I
think when you hear from us tonight, you'll hear about some of the other
values that maybe are unseen when you walk through the community doors. Um, I
wanted to share a personal story to start us out with that I moved to
Lewisville with my two-month-old six years ago. And if you recall, um, that
was like six weeks into CO. That was kind of a scary time to have a newborn.
Um, but as he grew and we learned a little bit about COVID and the library
reopened, the library really offered me as a stay-at-home mom who was so
isolated at that time, a community. Sorry.
Um, we saw people and, you know, we made friends and I made mom friends
and it was just we go to Tuesday story time, Friday music time and that's how I
started to feel connected here. My kids are older. We still come. The library is
one of their favorite places. Now they read to a dog,
which is amazing. My six-year-old is reading to a dog. Um, but the library
has really fostered not only that sense of community, but a love of learning and
a love of reading. As an as an educator and a mom, there's nothing better.
» Sorry.
Yeah, that's something to follow up on.
Thank you. Um, it just happened a very auspicious evening. You perhaps heard
that Dolly Pardon passed away today. Um, and I just heard an interview where it
was stated that her single from her perspective, her single greatest
accomplishment was starting the Imagination Library. Um, and that's
because of the value she learned. She knew growing up uh in a family where her
parents were illiterate how important reading and access to books was. I feel
the same way. I moved here to Colorado almost four years ago now and
I felt immediately to get involved in community. I wanted to work with the
library. Why? Because the library as this goes back more than 200 years, the
concept is it's the foundation for democracy. It's the foundation for
community. Democracy will not work in an illiterate society.
We can teach children how to read in our schools, but to give all of our
community members access to all of the books and resources that they need to be
educated and aware and um also to stimulate new ideas, curiosity,
partnership with others in the community, a deeper level of knowledge.
The library is absolutely essential in any community in this country and I'm
just so happy and so pleased to serve and that I was welcomed here as a a
newcomer from another state um to join and to represent my community of
superior as well. Thank you.
Okay. Well, um, my library story is kind of similar to Laurel's, um, in that I am
the mom of a 5-year-old boy. Um, and when I first moved to Lewisville in
2018, the first week I was here, I got a library card. It's one of the first
things I did and started using the library the way most people do, checking
out books. Also used the library of things to check out, you know, state
parks, passes, things like that. Um once my son was born, you know, once he got
to be a little bit older, it was, you know, the became the center of our
universe. Basically, we're here at least once a week. Um not just for checking
out books, but you know, for story time, like Laurel mentioned, for the events
that are put on throughout the year. Last year, my son got his Halloween
costume at the Halloween costume exchange. Um, and particularly,
you know, at a time when the cost of things is just going through the roof,
it's it's so nice to have a place that provides quality, enriching programs um
for for young people um of all ages, not just for little kids, but you know, for
middle schoolers and adults, too. Um it's nice that we have a place where we
can meet up with friends and you know we don't have to worry about um you know if
everybody can afford to you know go to a museum or something like that we can all
get together you know get books for our kids hang out in the play area and then
you know if we feel like it hop on over to Sweet Cow or something like that. Um,
but it is such a huge part of our lives and um, like Laurel mentioned, I have
made friends hanging out at the library. My son has made friends. It truly is
like the town center for us. Um, and just being able to go there and use it
the way you normally would, a library, but then also you've got the wonderful
town of Lewisville right outside the door and so many great things to do
afterward.
I'll echo a lot of what's already been said. Um, for me, I have always been
very passionate about my community. I believe very strongly in giving back.
Uh, when I was in undergrad and then grad school, a lot of my focus was on
um, uh, national and international politics. And for the longest time,
that's what I wanted to go into. But then as I uh went into internships, as I
sort of explored what that looked like and given the uh everchanging landscape
um at the federal level, it it felt unmaring. It felt like it was difficult
to make a change at such a great and grand scale. And I happened to uh start
getting involved more in uh local organizations, nonprofits, and really
feel the impact that you can have on a small community. uh how you can maybe
not change the world uh but you can brighten up your corner of the world. Um
and so that's part of the reason why I actually started working at the Denver
Public Library um four years ago uh was to give back to the community and to
work for an organization that I was so passionate about and that I saw doing so
much good. And then when I moved to Lewisville um out from Denver um I
wanted to still be involved in the community that I was now in. So while I
still work for DPL, it felt very important to be attached to this library
and to care about uh the way in which the library reaches community as one of
the last free third spaces that we have. I think it's so important that we have
this community center and cultural center and a way to meet one another and
talk to each other without the need to be anything other than yourself. Um and
the library gives back so much, not just in terms of books, though that's
fantastic. and as an avid reader, I very much make use of it. Um, but in all the
other services that it provides, um, with programming, with computers, um,
with just a way to not feel so isolated in an increasingly isolated world. Um,
and so I'm just very happy and proud to be here today and to talk with all of
you. So, you'll find that I'm going I've been
given the task of talking about library funding, which is fairly appropriate.
Um, I like my numbers and I like to see what a community values financially. One
of the reasons that I made the decision to buy a house in Lewisville was because
I went to the library and I saw the quality of this library. I brought my
son here and saw where your funding goes. And I said, "This is the type of
community I want to be in." Clearly a learned community. Clearly one that
values their library. Um, and that was indeed the main reason that we decided
to buy our house in Lewisville instead of Lafayette, instead of Boulder,
instead of a lot of different locations. The other thing that drew us was not
just the library itself, but the fact that it was right in the middle of
downtown. I knew that we could go to the library and then go get a cookie at Moxy
or go get Sweet Cow. Um, and I think I I want to highlight that for a lot of
folks in Lewisville, the library is part of a stop downtown. It is a part of a
bigger package. And I want to make sure we keep that in focus. It's a heart of
our community, but also the heart of our business community.
Okay. So, just to kind of start us off here, um this is a snapshot of um just
some numbers from uh January through June of this year. Um as you can see, we
are increasing in in just about every way in terms of um visitors, checkouts,
um people signing up to get a library card for the first time. What stands out
to me about this is the program attendance um increased by 49%.
In this first six months of this year, that's pretty wild in my opinion from
last year. Um and just goes to show, you know, something a lot of us talked about
is um the library being more than just a place to check out books, kind of a
meeting place, a place for people to get together, have community. Um, you know,
you said it really well, Ally. Um, in an increasingly isolated world, finding a
place to get together, um, that's free. And so, um, people are using these
programs and they're really loving them and they're coming regularly and they're
bringing their friends. And so, I think it just goes to show that's a really
important service that's not a traditional library service that that
we're providing here. Um and of course you know um just the increase in
checkouts, unique digital users, you know this is all going up. People are um
reading books and coming to see us at the library.
» Next slide.
So, as you can see from this next slide, which describes how the library is
staffed, these extraordinary services are offered to the to the city of
Lewisville um 7 days a week. And those services um are being offered when
we compare to other communities and other libraries with a surprisingly
small number of staff. There are 32 people who work in total at the library.
Only 20 actually 19 plus 3/4 of another person um are full-time for seven days a
week. And um there are quite a few part-time and volunteers that make the
library um work as as we know it. 22 are part-time. And you can see the number of
volunteer hours and volunteers um that contribute to the library as
well. Um 70 hours per week. That means the library is open to students after
school. It means it's open on weekends. It means it's open in the evenings.
Truly making it accessible to everyone at some point um in time during the day
as well as on the weekends. Um so I I think that's that's what we have
to share so far about the staff.
So I hope I don't need to harp too much more on how libraries are such a
foundational cornerstone to our community. um they help uh connect
people to each other and to needed resources. We serve around 22,000 folks
in Louisville and about 13,000 in Superior. But I think what we lose when
we look at these aggregate totals, these large numbers, is uh we forget the
individual folks and the folks that are most in need. It's very easy to
generalize what someone in Lewisville or Superior looks like, acts like, or
wants. But I wanted to dive into some of the data surrounding marginalized and
vulnerable populations within our city. Uh so first around a quarter of our
service population is under 18. Um compared to the national average of
about 20% um Lewisville has a large child population. Uh the library serves
our young community through early childhood education uh story times and
distinct spaces for children and teens. Um, as I hope you all noticed with the
49% increase in program attendance for the first half of 2026 compared to 2025,
uh, the programming is very very popular with children and families. Um, I also
want to talk that about how 4% of um, our households uh, within Lewisville uh,
do not have access to internet. While that does sound like a small percent uh
as we shift towards an increasingly um digital infrastructure uh for our basic
needs, what that means is that about 900 people a month may experience undue
barriers in doing something as simple as paying their utility bills. The way that
they go to access uh those resources to be able to pay for their electricity,
their gas, uh is to come to the library and use our public computers. And you
can see with our um data for PCs uh that they are incredibly high demand.
Additionally, it's not just computers that the library provides, but staff
time to help those folks. Um I have worked in the past with people that uh
have struggled with digital literacy. I have sat down with someone that has uh
tried to pay a medical bill uh and they did not know uh their username or
password to their health portal and they did not know the password to their email
to be able to reset that health portal. It was a very long and frustrating
conversation with a lot of fear. And what our staff do is they're able to sit
down and help those folks and make sure that they don't feel alone. And without
PCs, without staff, uh without that help to combat that digital literacy, we have
a lot of folks that are in very vulnerable positions, especially older
folks. I also want to highlight that around 5%
of people in Lewisville are at or below the national poverty line. And while
this number is significantly lower than the national poverty line of 12.2%, that
statistic is pretty misleading. The poverty line is set at the national
level, not at the local level. Um, and does not account for the additional
costs of high cost of living areas, which I hope you all know Boulder County
is a high cost of living area. Um, if you look at uh what the federal poverty
level estimates that you need, it says that a single person can comfortably
live off of $16,000 a year and that an adult with one child can survive off of
$21,000 a year. Um, that's not the reality in which we live. Uh, using the
MIT's cost of living calculator, it's estimated that a single person in
Boulder County needs to make $56,000 annually. A single adult with one child
needing child care needs to make $113,000
annually. And a single adult with two children needs to make $156,000
annually. Uh just to meet basic food, housing, and childare needs. Uh to do
some quick math, that's about 426 times higher than what the federal poverty
level says. Um, so using those statistics in Lewisville, it is
estimated that 58% of single adult households with children under 18 in
them are at or below the cost of living that they need to survive in this
county. Um, if the library has to reduce or eliminate programming for children or
its support services for adults, that can absolutely be annoying or
frustrating to a married couple with children that are in private school. But
for a single mom working multiple jobs, that is going to be lifealtering because
that family cannot afford to pay for alternatives. The services that are
provided at the library cannot be met anywhere else for free or for an
affordable cost. Um, so I hope that you can hear that
it's vital that these communities continue to receive services uh catered
toward their unique needs and the library is fortunately very uniquely
equipped to provide many of these services. However, I think that there's
an immense opportunity here for all city services and departments to work
together um to prioritize that care for all of our residents because no one
deserves to be forgotten or overlooked.
Thanks, Ally. So, I told you I'd be back to talk about
funding. Here we are. Um I don't think it'll come as a surprise to council that
the library funding comes from four main sources. Those four that you see right
there. Our total operating budget is just over
2.2 million. The city of Lewisville provides the bulk of that funding at
76%. The town of Superior provides 20% of our funding. Um, serendipitously that
happens to correspond with the usage of the library by Superior residents. Uh,
they have about 20% of our library cards and usership. Just so happens to work
that way. The Lewisville Public Library Foundation supplies us with a grant
every year. This fluctuates based on what they bring in. The number that you
see there, the $73,000, which makes up 3% of our budget, is about $20,000
higher than what we typically receive from the library foundation. This is
because they received a very large uh grant uh or a very large donation um
from a resident last year. So typically we do not see that level of funding from
the foundation. The state of Colorado grant to libraries that fluctuates
slightly based on our um our citizenship numbers. So if our citizenship numbers
go up, that number goes up slightly, but it should stay fairly constant.
I also want to let give you an opportunity to compare our library
funding and where our money goes to a similar size um library and population.
So Lafayette's library, you can see that um their operating budget, they spend
75% of their budget on personnel. We spend a higher amount at 86%.
We are staffing our library. We're using our funds to keep programming and bodies
um in our library and keep things going. We spend a great deal less on operations
than corresponding sized libraries do. We make very efficient use of the
funding that we have.
All right. Thank you Jamie and Ally and Jean Cheryl. Um so our priorities
um our first priority is to represent uh every citizen of Lewisville in Superior
and to ensure the highest level of library services and as you have heard
from us all tonight that is really important to all of us as board members
and we we love supporting Brandy and everything bless you that she's been
doing for the library. Um, so in our role as the board of trustees, we
support staff as they work to complete, finalize, and implement the strategic
plan. We're very excited to hear what Bry's team has compiled in our next
meeting in September and to help her and her team move things forward. Um, we
also are here tonight providing meaningful information to city council
uh to help you with your citywide decisions.
Um, as I mentioned before, we also review policies uh to make sure our
library is up to date uh with national policies, state policies, and city
policies uh so that we can provide the best services to all residents. Um, and
we need to ensure ongoing alignment with Colorado library law, which is has been
one of our our big learnings this year, as I mentioned earlier.
All right. So, we just had a couple of discussion points, but you know, we're
also here to open conversation. Um, you know, we'd love to hear what you all
think about the library being um a core service when we talk about the quality
of life here in Lewisville and love to hear what you feel are the priorities at
the library as, you know, we start to hear about the strategic plan and all
the feedback that Brandy and her team um has gathered. Um so I guess I'll pause
here and open for comment or questions. >> Sure. Um why don't we uh take just
briefly if people have clarifying questions for you about the presentation
and then we can um address some of the questions
um that we've got. Any questions about the presentation?
Yes. May prom.
» Thank you. um appreciate the presentation and you all sharing your
personal stories about connections to libraries as well. Um two clarifying
questions. The first one is Ally, the data you presented on our community. Can
you all help me understand what survey that came from?
» Absolutely. So that comes from the American Community Survey. Um it happens
every uh year. Um, usually best practice for data is to pull 5-year aggregates.
Um, so that's what we did for 2025. Um, it's basically the annual equivalent of
the census. Um, it's considered highly valid.
» Okay. Thank you very much. Um, and then my other question is I wanted to um
unpackage a little bit more the statistic regarding program attendance
and the 47% increase. Can you help me understand what is behind driving that
increase? >> Absolutely. Thank you for the question.
Um, looking at national trends, when we see economic factors that downturn for
the everyman, so John Q public, um, we're starting to see some of those
recession indicators show up in our programming. Typically, if we look back
to LA public libraries in 2007 to 2008, similar program attendance results show
up, but also as a visitor attraction and an economic engine for tourism in
downtown Lewisville. I think we pull in higher numbers for some of our programs
there that also influence that. Looking back at 2025, there was a time frame
where the library was closed um for the carpeting and remodeling project. those
programs were shifted to other locations which could also have an impact. But
looking programtogram, month-to-month aggregates rather than just an
overarching six-month um those program attendance did not fluctuate greatly
outside of increased attendance at the things that we're doing. So a good
example would be the um which is not in this poll, but the summer reading
carnival, which is an annual event we host each year on French Street. This
year it saw um just about 1,800 attendees and last year it was 1,200. So
we're continuing to see percentage growth in almost every program we do.
» Okay, that's really helpful. So is it fair to say that that increase is in
part driven by increase attendance in existing programs, not necessarily
addition of a lot of new programs. >> Correct. We haven't increased the number
of programs we're doing. In fact, in um in line with 2025 six month, we are
about 20 programs less than we did in January through June of 2025 for the
same snapshot. >> Okay, that's really helpful. Thank you.
» Others? Yep. Council member, >> thank you for asking those questions,
Mayor Prom. They were mine as well. Uh and thank you all. Really appreciate you
being here and and I agree. Um interesting to hear your connection to
the to the library. Uh this is probably more for the director. So same thing
with the programming. I was curious is the att the increase across the board on
every type of programming or is there like a heavier lean toward um young and
children's programming is it seems like that's a a really popular item.
» Yeah. Nationally, public libraries are definitely known for their bread and
butter being how we serve families with young children and how we serve an aging
population. We are um gratefully seeing increase across programs at all levels.
In fact, with a higher growth percentage for our adult programming um especially
looking for those sort of midday focused at senior community opportunities.
» Okay. Interesting. Thank you.
» Yes, Council Fee. I'm going to continue on with this topic. Um, I'm wondering
when you have an increase, which sounds pretty significant in attendance, how do
you staff or manage those larger events? >> It's a great question. Thank you. Right
now, we are relying on volunteer labor for that core operation. We are far
exceeding our ability for our volunteer capacity to help us manage those rooms
and those larger events. And so it does take a little bit more finagling.
Sometimes it's pulling me off of whatever I'm working on to come be
another body during a tie-dye program or a bubble festival um or even a very
interesting science program. So we are doing our best to be as responsive and
flexible as possible and nimble within the restraints of our staffing.
» All right. Well, thank you and thank you for what all of you do.
» Council member Cooperman. Um,
I was also going to ask a qu questions about the the program number uh
increasing, but I'll ask a very different question. Um, I'm just
curious, how does the library foundation raise most of its funds?
» It's a fantastic question. Thank you. So, the library foundation currently
operates two major fundraisers uh per year. One being Colorado Giving Day um
which will come up in November. They give run that through the Colorado Gives
platform. Otherwise, they do a targeted summer reading program sponsorship. Um,
traditionally, they have relied on unsolicited donations. As we work closer
with the foundation to set up some of those structural and foundational
policies, procedures, and processes much like the board has spoken to, we hope to
see a more concerted and targeted effort in fundraising. The large challenge is
that we are competing in a community with many wonderful organizations. Um,
and we're fighting for some of the same dollars. Yeah.
Thank you. >> Other questions?
Um I have a couple um about the library
snapshot in particular. Um I guess I'm one of the things I was
curious about is um there's you know you've broken it
down into um full-time
uh employees, part-time, and then volunteers.
um as well as volunteer hours. But just the numbers of those three um full-time,
part-time, and volunteers, how do those compare with other libraries say in
Colorado and if you know and same thing nationally?
» Yeah, I appreciate the question. So looking at the front range and
especially within our consorcia, so Lafayette, Longmont, Loveland, Boulder,
um Westminster for some things, we tend to leave Boulder out because they're the
big guy, so it's hard to compare ourselves to them, right? We are more
heavily staffed by part- timerrs than any of our comparable um neighbors.
Lafayette is our large our most similar in service size. And so if we flash back
to the January presentation, we have about 120 less staffing hours than
Lafayette does for the same number of open hours to the public. So we are
staffed 70 hours per week open to the public 58 because we need opening
shifts, we need closing shifts, we need processing, things like that. So um
looking at the same number of staffed hours, we're about 120 hours less than
our regional peers. Nationally, public libraries have always been served by a
combination of professional, full-time, part-time staff. Um, I would say that we
are probably still lagging behind a bit with a stronger part-time presence than
a full-time presence, specifically in our professional librarians.
» That's helpful. Thank you,
» Council Member Dickens. Just curious because I didn't see it in
here if you guys are um
what role you guys might be playing in you know what is the revamp of front and
center and what I see as sort of the outdoor library for much of the year
like obviously street fair and farmers market and things are are known as
popular events there but I think there's a lot of intention on making that space
sort of you know hopefully feel like the outdoor
portion of the library and I'm wondering if you guys are involved at all in
conversations in that direction, if you have excitement towards it, if it's kind
of like news or how Yeah. how you feel about the the redo of the Steinba Plaza.
» Yeah. Can I hop in? I've been working the winter festival in particular for
the first f first light Friday um for the last eight years and I think our
revamp of our patio area has kind of allowed more um participation. I mean I
think our numbers in our art Friday are up dramatically. It makes us more a part
of those happenings to have that outdoor platform to have the shading. Thank
goodness. So, it's not so terribly hot there. Um, I think all of the citywide
events become the library becomes more part of them because of what we've done.
And I also have to say I think all the artwork that has been added around that
area, it's it's such a draw to folks. I mean, I I don't know if you've seen, but
little kids are always stopping and pointing things out and talking about
the squirrels and the books and and all the different things. um both as a
volunteer at the library and as a citizen. I love the combination and what
it's done for us and I'm thankful that money was put aside for that.
» Thanks Jamie. Um Council Member Dickinson, as far as the front and
center project, the board has not been engaged on that project as it hasn't
moved past LRC yet. While we have had conversations about hopes of activating
that space, we recognize that again our restraint is in budget and staffing
resources. We hope that as that design comes to fruition, we're able to find
ways to continue to activate it as we do now, not overstretching past our
capacity.
» Yeah, I think that's my hope and concern, right? This great opportunity
for more programming and like more programming, how do we do more, you
know? So, I think it's it's a yeah, it is an opportunity and uh and potentially
a problem area as well. I just wanted to add toss out um even
before your your comments um that it all depends on volunteerism,
the the outdoor programming, the in town programming,
it depends on the number of volunteers and their particular interests as well.
» Um why don't we move to some of your questions? I I I want to start by kind
of maybe well hitting hitting the first one. What
are council's top priorities? I think you've laid out some some good
priorities. I I want to and this is don't take don't take this negatively.
This is a question or this is kind of a comment that I have about about what the
boards generally do and frankly what we do. Um what we do is we hit policy
broadly um and we when we're doing our best work I think leave the operational
stuff to the staff who do terrific job and you know that Brandy does. Um so a
couple of the priorities that I looked at here um particularly the first and
the last that is sort of supporting I supporting staff as they work to
finalize a strategic plan, encouraging teamwork and shared success. I think to
the extent that's like moral support, we're all for that. And I know that
that's um um an issue. Ensuring ongoing alignment with the Colorado Library law
is really more um more the director's role. Um but I I do wonder on the middle
two um when we talk about um kind of
priorities I I am in interested in whether you feel like you have good
opportunities to present or provide information
through staff to us
» to that. Um, so as I mentioned at the beginning of our presentation, uh, we
have learned more about Colorado Library Law and part of the way we have shifted
our bimonthly meetings is that Brandy makes a budget presentation to us now.
Um, so we see every line item and what the library is spending um, you know,
across the board um, not only personnel but with programs and technology and um,
the New York Times subscriptions. Um, so it's been interesting for us. You know,
I'll speak for myself being on the board now for five years. We we didn't do this
before. We didn't get this detailed level um of library operations. So, you
know, Brandy has bounced ideas off of us and said, "Hey, you know, I need to cut
my budget by 3%. What is this is what my team and I are thinking. You know, can
you give me some feedback on that?" So, you know, I I feel that we're a good
sounding board for her and we can give her, you know, some feedback on that.
Um, and really get into the weeds a bit about how much it costs to to really
operate a successful library.
» Um, we should probably take public comment before we go into council
kind of ask. It doesn't look like we have any
» public comment. >> Okay. All right. Then back.
» Questions about priorities. I know that that's a question we get from every
single um board and commission. Yeah. Council
member Coopermanman. Um, actually, I'd ask like to ask a follow-up question
first. Um, sort of coming off the mayor's comments and questions. Um, so
right, you're called the library board of trustees rather than say the library
advisory board. >> Um,
I'm just not I don't remember from our statutes and s and such, but is is the
library board of trustees more formal than an advisory board? And could you
clarify that for us? Yeah, that's a fantastic question. Thank you. So,
public libraries are governed by state law. Part of our state law in Colorado,
um believe it's statute 249 outlines what a library board of trustees is
charged with. That includes things like budgetary oversight. Um typically hiring
and some sort of performance management of the director. Um things like policy
and and including up to like our budgetary discretion. So, if we were to
make major changes, they have input in all of that. So public libraries also
operate as an odd entity in throughout Colorado because you can be a municipal
library which we are or a district which is a special taxing district as a
municipal library. Typically there is a joint agreement between the board and
the municipality about who's governing the library director who's overseeing
their performance who's doing the hiring and firing there. Um but a lot of the
dictation of policy approval um lies with the board of trustees as a more
formalized body than an advisory board. And I don't know if anyone from the
board would like to sort of comment on, you know, whether I mean, you said
you're learning a lot about how uh library law works in Colorado and so
forth. So, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts or concerns about how you're
functioning as a board of trustees currently or or not or I don't know.
» I can speak to that. So, uh, in the past, um, prior to Brandy coming on
board, I don't believe that we were meeting our full duties and
responsibilities, um, as a governing board. Um, there were certain things
that, uh, slipped through cracks. So, it's been a lot of restructuring,
ensuring that everyone has been trained on what they need to do and what they're
responsible for. And I think that we're moving towards a much better state of
being able to be not just a group of people that meets um bimonthly and talks
about how much we love the library, although that's great, but also actively
is informing the governance of the library um and uh serving as uh
responsible leasins um both to you all and uh to the community as well.
I'm actually going to hop in off what Ally just said and and point out having
seen the transition when Brandy came on and and been for such a great deal of
time, this board is more involved with a lot of the detailed decisions and serves
more of a role of representing our fellow citizens um than we did before.
I'll give you a small example that may seem like nothing. Brandy came to us
talking about an issue of needing to um have folks empty out the the study rooms
10 minutes 10 15 minutes early and make that a library policy that we start
shoeing people out not exactly the best words. Sorry Brandy.
We kindly ask our patrons to exit the study rooms 15 minutes early
because our staff is is limited and they need to be able to clear the library out
on time. We need to find ways to maximize our staff our staff usage.
But this is something she brought to the board and said, "Is this reasonable?
What things do you think should be put in place along with this? How should we
address this with our patients? With sorry, I'm a nurse. With with our
patrons, what policies do we need to put in
place? What announcements should we make? All of these details the board
addressed. This is not something that would have happened before. Our role is
very different than it used to be. I'll pop into uh based on my past
experience. I formerly was serving on a school board for 10 years. Um, and then
as as a dean in higher education, I oversaw three libraries. So, I had a
sense of the way boards are expected to work in a variety of
settings. And previously, I think with no criticism directed to toward any
given person. Um, the board wasn't in compliance either with state law or what
would generally be expected by other boards. um to public serving
organizations. And so I'm I'm very grateful to see the changes that have
occurred in the last year and it's been I think a little bit of a
surprise to all of us as members how far off we were in terms of the state law
and compliance. So that's when we've said a big learning curve, that's what
it refers to. you know, >> add to that, too. I feel like as a
volunteer, it gives me more of a sense of purpose and I I know, you know, what
direction we're going in, you know, so Bry's kind of steering the ship and, you
know, we can help her correct course as needed. But, um, going in every month,
it's like, okay, this is what we're doing. And it it feels more purposeful
and also that my time is more valuable and it's it's really um, sorry,
respected and and valued. So, all sorts of positive uh changes and
I think we're on a really great trajectory and a great path moving
forward.
» Go ahead. >> I'm going to kind of follow up on this a
little bit. Um, I'm wondering with some advisory boards, they're not allowed to
accept donations from the public, um, and then specifically use them for their
priorities. As a licensed board, are you a 501c3?
Can you accept cash and no? >> It's a fantastic question. Thank you for
allowing me to clarify, >> so yes, the library board of trustees is
not an independent 501c3. They are an appointed body by this body, this
elected body. Um, but our foundation is, so the library foundation is an
independent 501c3 which acts as the philanthropic arm for the library which
we are able to direct gifts to whether that be cash, goods or artwork.
» And do those two boards interact and cooperate?
» Yes, quite deeply. >> Let me speak to that. So myself or
Cheryl, the the vice chair, we attend every meeting so that there's great
collaboration and, you know, we can make sure that we're sharing what we're
working on as a board and the foundation can ask us, you know, any questions that
they may have. And then once a year we have a joint meeting. So that's planned
for September 10th. Um, and it's it's really great to sit down with everybody
who loves the library, is working hard uh to make sure that our library is the
best it can be. They're a wonderful group and uh they meet monthly.
» Thank you. So um first it sounds like then based on the discussion that the
board of trustees parieties priorities yeah
» um aligns with your duties as is spelled
out um in a variety of different uh documents. So, I'm going to move on then
to the discussion points that you all have up here um and kind of give you my
my viewpoint on those. So, as far as you know, council's top priorities for the
next year, and I'm going to blend that one and two kind of together uh for for
for me, you know, one of the top priorities we're discussing through the
budget cycle is maintaining the assets that we have and taking care of what we
have. Um, and I think that naturally extends to the library as well for all
the reasons that you beautifully told us about. It's a really important asset
that we maintain. Um, as far as um, you know, goals and
investments and such, I would say we're going to start discussions about our
work plan for next year. So, that could help inform the direction that you all
go in maybe with some of your work. Um, the thing that stands out to me that's
going to hopefully be happening soon is the front and center project. So, I I
would really like to be able to lean um on you all to help us ensure in
coordination with with director Cummings that the library, you know, still
remains accessible, how you're going to do your programs, everything else. Um we
I think we talk a lot about how it impacts the businesses but equally it
impacts you all as well in your work right. Um and then for three and four
about partnering and collaborating more. I think you have a phenomenal director
who does a great job partnering and collaborating with you all and then
bringing that information to us. So, I fully put my trust in Director Cummings
to continue to do that because I think that's the the really from my point of
view, the best way for us to partner with you all is through her expertise,
her strategy and visioning, which I wish I could channel some of that myself. Um,
I think honestly is the most impactful way to achieve three and four. So, I
hope that's helpful and I'll open it up to my fellow council members.
» Others? Yes. Council member Hefner.
» Yeah, thank you. Thanks. Thanks to all of you for coming and and sharing in the
presentation. I I agree with everything. Um my word three colleagues said I I
would add, you know, on the sort of taking care of what we have front. I I
do think that's really important. The other thing we've all been working hard
on is we just finished our comprehensive plan for land use and we'll be
implementing that with a development code rewrite. you know, and depending on
who you ask, I think one of the outcomes of that is going to be we're hoping to
get open Lewisville to to more and different
kinds of people than necessarily live here now. And, you know, assuming we're
successful in some of those efforts, uh your role in the library's role will be
more important than ever and and hopefully we can continue to drive the
um wonderful growth in in program attendance and circulation and
everything else. Um, and so on that note, I think that's one one thing to
come and and another reason to keep up the good work, but really appreciate all
all the effort and all Bry's effort and um the the library is one of our gems of
the city and whether it's a core service or not, I'll I'll leave for others to
decide, but it's um I always think about what are the things that would, you
know, if they went missing, everyone would notice and certainly on that list.
Um so, thank you. Um, we have just a few minutes, but are
there other council members want to weigh in on these?
» I think council member or member Tan did a wonderful job of explaining I think
encapsulating what certainly I said or want to say.
» Yeah, I I would absolutely echo um what council members Hamilton and Hefner uh
just said. I just wanted to add um I mean on point point number two um
I would say like what one of the things we're looking from for for from you uh
is advice on that. I mean I I feel like you all are much more um qualified to
to advise on where right where we need to invest or or not to invest for the
library. Um, and so I would say, uh, sort of in line with number three, you
know, you should really feel free to provide us with that information. Um,
and you know, I for one am happy to have conversations about that or I think, you
know, if you just want to send us memos or emails or anything like that, um,
we're always welcome. So,
» yeah, I agree. Um, the mayor prom stated everything so well. I won't try to
restate. Um, I just wanted to see if you guys hear some of the same things that I
do. Do you hear from the senior community at all the the members who
come in and need especially books and the access or lack thereof to like new
like the newest like novels that are out especially in large print or newspapers
in large print because what I've what I have been hearing is the only access is
a digital one and I find that that is not actually typically used by our
senior population. So I was just curious to see if that was something that you
guys have heard as well. Yeah. So, looking at patron feedback specifically
in our senior population, we do hear quite often um a frustration or a
dissatisfaction with the large print collection. Um our print collection
budget is is remarkably restrictive and because we need to invest in the items
that are most highly used, we try to lean into our consorcia as best we can.
The real the realities of our beautiful library is that the footprint is
relatively small. So we have about 82,000 items in our collection. Of that
maybe 5% is large print for a colle this size and with a growing aging
population. Our goal um internally so under staff's direction is to grow that
to a 7% of our collection. However, print newspapers becomes a whole
different world. Um, as the print publishing world continues to struggle
in an increasingly digital age, we do see increasing costs in print
publications that just aren't feasible with with some of our budget
constraints. So, when we start to have to compare like what priority do we
meet, whose needs do we put where, um, that is why we're turning to things like
the strategic plan, which is engaging the entire populace to be able to help
identify some of those sort of shared values and shared priorities. So yes, we
do we do hear some of those echoes. Um and we are looking for creative ways to
stretch what we have and meet those needs to the best of our ability.
» Thank you, director. >> If I may, just real quick, is that also
something that you guys share with the foundation since they're responsible for
helping to do some fundraising that that might be targeted type of fundraising
and there's specific organizations that maybe they would be able to communicate
with to raise money when it's something specific for that? I don't know.
» Yes. So the foundation is aware of library needs. We have um monthly
meetings with them where we check in on our goals and priorities. They've also
been a part of the strategic planning process. Their fundraising currently has
focused on programmatic things like the summer reading program which could not
happen without fun foundation support. Otherwise, the bulk of their gift that
they give us every year does already go to collections. Our collections budget
is about 50,000 less than our surrounding communities from our
operating budget from the city. And so we do rely on subsidy from the
foundation. And as that is a variable and unreliable source of money depending
year after year, we have to make some of those decisions on a on a less um
strategic visionary base year-over-year. >> Thank you.
» If I could add a little bit um representing the superior community, I
can guarantee you that the senior community um is very very interested in
the library and what resources are available. they are primarily interested
in ebooks and our collection is very small um relative to other libraries. So
it's not unusual to have a wait list of 82 people or even sometimes over 200
people for a given book. Um so that's one of the strongest areas of senior
interest. >> I agree. I buy my ebooks because I can't
rent them. >> Thank you very much for getting
together. Um, one thing I do encourage you, and I think you've heard it a
couple of times, is um, watching budget and giving us input is the way we get,
uh, good good input from the boards and commissions. And I hope you'll, you
know, continue to to work with um, the director on that and on um, on the work
plan which is coming up too. If you're interested in making, you know, some
suggestions, we're getting close to finishing the budget, but there will be
a a a draft um budget that comes from our city manager um the the first. We're
going to have to shut um down because we've got other um things coming. But
please, if you have questions, thoughts, don't hesitate to get in touch with us.
But I think working with Brandy is, as we've said, the best thing um we can do.
» Well, thank you all for your time this evening and thank you for having us here
and thank you very much for your feedback. I appreciate it.
» Thanks. >> Thank you.
» Do you need a minute to set up? Um are we are we headed back upstairs here? Are
we >> okay?
I'm going to use a quick
Why don't we plan to come back in a couple of minutes things are set.
on
on and we're ready for um our item B which is discussion and
direction on the draft cross guide book that's um Parks Recre open space guide
book. Um and um why don't we start with the presentation.
» Sure. Thank you, Mayor. Adam Blackmore, director of parks, wreck, and open
space. Thrilled to be with you tonight. Um in our rough estimates, closing in on
our 30th public meeting related to this specific project. Um as we we move
forward. So, it's it's very exciting uh with that amount of engagement and and
time spent with the community, with our elected officials and our boards uh to
be able to present to you and I'll highlight in all air quotes a draft um
guide book which includes a 10yearish 10 plus year long range plan uh for the
entire department as well as what would be our first um city's trail system plan
uh referenced in um areas as a trails master plan. And so the drafts you have
tonight um as I mentioned, they're a culmination of um what would be four
plus years of work. Um, one one of the first items when I started with the city
nearly four and a half years ago uh was a high demand from the community to have
um some more concrete direction and some understanding of where this version of
Lewisville sits as it relates to priority uh for resources, priority for
amenities um and all the ins and outs um of what's
valued in this community throughout our very broad uh very highly used
department. And so, um, you know, we've gotten to this point, um, with the
drafts. Uh, we are currently in, we're right in the middle of, uh, potentially
one of our last, if not our last full community engagement periods. Um, we're
seeking some guidance on if we're on the right track tonight from city council as
well as um feedback that would be relevant to uh just any public input
process as well after uh you've had a chance to review the drafts. Um so I
would just I'm I reiterate that because we do still have uh three two and a half
three-ish weeks left of public comment to gain. Um, we have had some pretty
robust comments thus far through our engaged Lewisville site. Um, which I
would encourage, um, anyone who hasn't done that to go and review the draft
plans, but also review the litany of supporting documentation that's gone in
to help uh, get us to where we are, but also any comments. We've had comments
from typos that will inevitably, no matter how many times we read it, be
found um to uh more substance and substantive feedback that we can
certainly take into consideration as we work to refine these to a plan that can
uh proudly be brought before you hopefully in October uh for adoption.
And so tonight, Brian's going to go through um a brief presentation for you.
So, if you're unaware, Brian Weber is our planning and project manager for
PROS. He's uh wearing a ton of hats, as has been mentioned through our budget
presentations over the past few months. He's also juggling a um incredibly high
workload while trying to uh crank out a really high quality product I think is
before you tonight uh to guide the department moving forward. And so, Brian
will go through his um his presentation. We're happy to take any feedback um as
it fits into refinements. Uh Brian will touch on a few things that we've already
kind of heard as it relates to formatting and some content uh that
we're going to be relaying back to our consultant. We'll meet with the
consultant later this week. Uh DTJ is our primary consultant, but we have subs
for all of the divisions uh outlined in the plans you see before you tonight,
including the trails plan. Um and then once the public engagement period has
ended midepptember uh again we'll take all of those comments which we'll seek
some direction tonight on how you would like to see us utilize those um comments
and hopefully again in October get you a final plan. So without further ado, I'll
turn it over to Brian to go through a brief presentation on kind of where we
are and how we got here.
» All right. Thank you, Adam, and thanks to council for having us at this special
meeting to review these plans. Um, really foundational for our department
and our future and, um, worthy of as many discussions as possible. So, as a
quick recap, um, we started almost two years ago developing our RFP, uh,
request for proposal for this project. um that came before our advisory boards
as well as council prior to being posted. Um fast forward now to August of
2026 and here we are with draft plans um under public review. So it's been quite
a process um for us to get to this point. Um and that included really a
foundation of robust community input. Um, so over really the past 14 months or
so, um, as Adam mentioned, we've had over 20, uh, closing in on 30 now, um,
meetings with various aspects of the community, whether that's advisory
boards, uh, popup events out at our, um, trail heads or parks, rec center,
um, opportunities for people to provide input on, uh, surveys, both residents
and an open link survey um as well as um through open houses. So, we've had a
number of opportunities for people to engage and had great response to those
opportunities. Um we've looked at a variety of plans and policies, uh
existing conditions, things that kind of frame the plans that you see today, as
well as getting uh guidance from a variety of consultants on the team. um
everything from trail and kind of transportation experts to ecological
u consultants, survey experts that helped us draft and
implement the survey itself and then DTJ as our lead consultant kind of hurting
everything and structuring the process itself. Um, another thing that has been
ongoing is obviously the budget and planning process specifically this year
as we look at um the 27 and 28 and on capital improvement planning um as well
as feedback from staff. So, not only our superintendent of the various divisions,
but field staff as well. Um, and so really what this plan comes down to is
we're trying to establish a clear framework um, and a set of priorities
for how our department can move forward. The intent of the plans um, lots of
terms out there that can be kind of confusing, but ultimately a long range
plan, a trail system plan, we would put them in the category of strategic level,
highlevel plans. Um, we're looking to, hence the name guide book, we're looking
to establish a direction for our future and kind of guide the way. Um, help us
to prioritize knowing that we can't possibly accomplish everything that
every single person wants us to do. Um but looking at kind of the communitywide
um high level, how can we get kind of the most bang for our buck
in investments um with limited resources and kind of define the outcomes that the
community as a whole desires and then develop a framework um for
action that we can really implement so that we're not just talking about big
ideas and lofty goals, but we're trying to break that into a series of steps
that we can actually take to achieve these things. Um, identifying priority
level, time frame, staff position responsible, etc. That being said, uh,
we do want our goals and strategies to be actionable, but we by no means have
all of the answers, um, or can these plans provide all of the answers. um one
for unforeseen challenges or shifting priorities, but just the level of
detail, meaning if we talk about a certain amenity, we don't have it
designed, right? So, we don't know exactly how much it cost um or even
exactly where it goes um within the community, but we're just identifying
that um some of these things like a recreation field for example
um are an amenity that's been desired by the community and highlighted through
this process and something that we need to um carve out resources for going
forward. So, um, we don't have all the details today, um, on, you know, exactly
how things will be implemented. Um, but we do want to make sure that we're
heading in the right direction and pursuing the right, um, direction and
priorities. In terms of, um, kind of where we stand
as staff, uh, I think one of the things that we appreciate the most about the
direction that these plans have gone is that they're broken down by division. So
looking at parks, the recreation and senior services, open space, Cole Creek
golf course and the trail system which weaves between parks, open space and
kind of public right away. Um each division has its own unique needs.
In some cases has its own funding sources, has its own um governing
documents in some cases such as the city charter. So we really need to focus at
the division level and these plans um allow us to do that. Uh there also is a
sentiment from the community to um continue what we're doing right maintain
what we have build on what's working. So that to say, we're not starting from
scratch, right? There's been a number of um things in process for a long time
that we want to look to continue to leverage and continue um to build on the
success of things that have been done and and are ongoing. Now, more than
anything, it's grounded in community input. Um so we had great response from
the community to help provide us direction. At the same time, we're
trying to balance lofty goals, big picture ideas with the u realism of like
where do we stand, you know, as a city financially, what can we achieve, what
resources do we have? Um, and trying to strike that balance between goals that
inspire us and pull us forward and elevate us to a next level, but don't go
so high that we could never achieve them, and we're basically setting
ourselves up for failure. So I think we're striking um a good balance there
as well. Combined with that is uh guiding
decision- making, right? We we can't say yes to everything and every person. Um
and so we can use this document as a foundation for those decisions going
forward for where we can say yes, where we unfortunately do need to say no, um
and how we can best focus our resources. I think it's interesting timing coming
to adoption here um with where we are in the CIP process for the next couple
years and kind of balancing the community input of
maintaining what we have the realism of kind of where our budget is projected to
be and the goals and objectives that this plan sets and I think that there's
a nice synergy there um between this plan how it informs terms um CIP
planning going forward and also what's desired by our community of maintaining
and leveraging existing assets. Um so I think we're in a good place there. And
then more than anything um the way that this document set up that I've not seen
before is there is a big booklet, right? There's literally hundreds of pages to
read through. But the spine and the foundation of that is an action matrix
that establishes the goals, strategies, and action items for each division. And
that's something that we can not only use for implementation, but we can use
that in ongoing fashion. Meaning that we can update that, we can track progress,
we can literally cross things off the list as they're done. We can shift
priorities and time frames um more easily based on budget cycles. So it's
not just a document that is intended to sit on get adopted and sit on a shelf.
It's a document that we can use on an annual basis um and really be a living
and working document um to guide us and not be 10 years from now with another
consultant going oh yeah back in 2025 and 2026 we did this. This action matrix
is something that we can actively use on a year-to-year basis. So, uh, staff are
feeling good about, um, what we have, the direction that we're headed, and,
um, the idea of, you know, building on what
the community, um, input, uh, what the community has told us over the past 14
months. So, in terms of input, um, tonight, there's a number of ways to
kind of try to tackle all of the content that was put before you guys and a lot
of questions to kind of stew on as you go through things. But ultimately, it
really boils down to kind of this central question at the bottom, and
that's, you know, do we feel that the long range plan and the trail system
plan are setting the right strategic vision for the department and each
division going forward? Um, as we look at a fiveyear and 10-year outlook, uh,
some of the things that we've heard so far, um, in terms of kind of refinements
that are desired prior to adoption, um, this idea of kind of connecting the
dots. So, we have the long range plan, we have the trail system plan, each one
has an appendix with additional uh, very thorough documents. So, how can we
better connect the dots and strengthen the plan so that a lot of that
foundational work, specifically the needs assessment and the community
engagement summary is kind of more um legible in the plans itself brought more
to the to the forefront of those documents um to understand kind of the
context and the driving force. So, we've heard that from some people um in kind
of looking back to the earlier stages of the project and how do we uh make sure
that that information is present in the final plans. Um at the same time, kind
of looking forward uh with capital improvement planning, how do we make
sure that it's clear in these plans um how the capital improvement planning
will be informed by these plans? what are some of the um key priorities coming
out of these plans that will show up in future capital requests, etc. Um and
specifically with the trails plan, how it relates to the transportation master
plan that public works overseas, the comp plan um with community development,
and how is the trail system plan kind of finding its home between those documents
um building off of them, being informed by them, and anticipating the future
changes. uh specifically with the comp plan that it kind of is projecting for
Lewisville's future. Um and then also kind of the prioritization. So um
recognizing that each action item um and strategy kind of has a high, medium or
low and then has a time frame one to fiveyear, 5 to 10 or is it something
that we're doing in an ongoing fashion? um that those are things that um we can
get input on as well and kind of easily tweak to meet um you know what what
council thinks is the best direction um for us. So with that, um just a quick
recap, next steps. We're in public comment till September 13th. Um seeking
direction on kind of what happens after September 13th with the feedback that we
receive um through the website, through email, um from this group, from our
advisory boards who are also discussing this plan at August and September
meetings. Um, and really our goal is to try to make these refinements,
incorporate the input, and be able to come back in October with a document um,
that we feel is ready for adoption and and get the thumbs up that this is the
direction that we'd like to see the department go um, for the next decade.
So, with that, I'm happy to try to answer any questions. I know there's a
lot to digest with all of these plans and appendices and all the things, but
um if there's questions we can answer um feedback we can incorporate or things
that we can try to find an answer to, happy to discuss.
» Good. Um we will start with um council questions. So who would like to kick off
on this one?
No questions at all. Wow.
Okay. Um, we can go to public comment. I I actually I've got a couple of
questions myself, but yes, member Goerman.
Um, let's see.
Um guess some a couple of smaller
questions. Um so on the there's the a map that shows
all the open space properties and it has the different designations of types of
open space. Are those currently established or are those suggestions?
So, um that
» um I can try to find it.
» Yeah, I forget.
Yeah, I think I know that you're talking >> 45.
» I'm off. I think I know the map you're talking about and that map reflects uh
the recent results of vegetation survey that was done by open space staff. Um
that is one of the reports um that you can link to in the appendix and is
available um on the engage website. All of the different appendix um appendex
items are there to read kind of that full report.
» But my understanding is that >> as a result of the vegetation study,
they correlated the types of vegetation um to different classifications. And so
in areas where they found more native species, less weeds, etc. that warranted
being um the highest like preserve level. Things that were more like smooth
broom, undesirable vegetation were in the lower. So that map basically
reflects classifications that were informed by the vegetation survey data.
So it's kind of a snapshot of where things sit today.
» Okay. But it's not like a formally adopted in some sense.
I mean like we haven't said like >> No, it's meant to reflect current
snapshot using the veg survey. We do have designations and mapping for each
property as it's came through council's review or OSAB's review historically
that we've been using for guidance as it relates to um infrastructure
improvements or the way that we manage the properties. But that specific map I
think is talking to just a snapshot of the veg survey.
» Okay. Um and then another question about a map.
Um so there's a one of the trails maps showing existing
um conditions. Again, it seems like it shows some bicycle lanes but not all the
bicycle lanes. So, I was wondering, you know, is the is it supposed to is it
supposed to show all bicycle lanes or are there certain ones that have been
emphasized or like there are there actually ones that are sort of
designated as parts of trails? I'm just not sure. Yeah. So, we wrestled quite a
bit with the classifications and try to how to best adapt
kind of industry standard or national standard trail classifications to
Lewisville. >> Um,
» it's interesting because for instance in trails planning there's this idea of a
regional trail. >> In an industry standard, a regional
trail would be something more like Highway 36. you have this, you know,
consistent width of concrete that goes between jurisdictions, but then we have
the Cole Creek Regional Trail, which is anything but Highway 36, right? So, we
we kind of looked at these breakdowns of like what what does it mean for
Lewisville? So kind of where we landed was we do have these regional
connections. We do have secondary connections and then we also have um
this this idea of kind of street routes and those are things that are more in
the public rightway. >> Specifically for the bike lanes. That's
something that I think we should go back and look at that exhibit and kind of
with a fine tooth comb say are we showing these accurately or not? Um and
double check that. In terms of the trails planning, we are considering more
of the street routes um being part of the system, not just like a bike lane in
the road, but more of something where you have um kind of like a separated
bike lane. So, if you think along >> like the north side of Cherry Street
over by Heritage Park, um there's like a a concrete path on the north side of
Cherry. Um that's kind of a street route trail, right? Um but not like just a
three foot wide section of a lane, so to speak.
» Yeah. >> Okay, that's helpful. Um
okay.
And uh maybe um
» I don't know. Maybe that's all for now. Thank you.
» Okay, member Kern.
» Great. Thank you. Uh first off, appreciate like this is huge amount of
work. I know that I've mentioned this to you guys before, but I thought in a very
public setting I would I would offer that as thanks because I think this is a
big project. Um so I I had a question about it's under the open space and it's
I think in the details of the action plan that we're kind of talking about
page 114 Chris to help you find it. Um and I think it's under the open space
2.3 it has a mention of wildfire mitigation in with vegetation management
practices and ecological restoration. And then in 231 it's it like it talks
about um incorporating resource protection measures uh into project
designs implementation and then aligning projects with operational activities and
adopted plans. Is there something like this one in also the parks area because
I know we also have to do this on that kind of like unerrigated parks I think
I'm saying that right out on irrigated parks land um and is this enough
information I mean given given like the the importance of this to the community
to I guess since this is going to be a staff document to make sure that future
people for the next 10 years or more understand like what a high priority
this is my concern is where it's living and how small it is and I just wanted to
see if if it felt the importance to you because as I read this it doesn't strike
me as it's high level
for us it is to your point though I think if there's
a way to make it more prominent or to highlight the language we can certainly
consider that in the final draft for future people that would be reading this
or implementing it. Um, you know, I do think
and I'd have to go do a a word search of sorts, but we did take the feedback from
the April meeting specific to reinforcing that message. Um, and
incorporated that pretty substantially throughout the document and all aspects
really. Um, so I think that for what we're trying to implement and in the at
least the short term, it's definitely got a high level of priority. Um,
yeah, I'll I'll leave it at that. I I think for us it's good, but you know, we
can certainly consider ways to ensure that number one, it is in parks and
number two that it's highlighted. >> Yeah. And there is mention of it in
parks and golf also. um this idea of fire mitigation. I think the how it fits
into specifically open space with the concept of lands management of as we do
these restoration projects as we increase um the percentage of native
grasses get rid of things like smooth broom that that is supporting fire
mitigation um and managing those fuels. So
my understanding from discussion with open space staff is that the fire
mitigation falls under those um the land management and kind of it's all the
goals are all they all align I guess if that makes sense. So as we restore
native grasses we have better habitat we're more resilient against wildfire
kind of all goes hand inand together. Um, so that's why I think you see it
kind of nested under that broader goal about the resource management.
» Okay. >> Um, but yeah, the feedback's good. It's
important. >> Thank you. I appreciate it.
» Other questions?
» Okay. Um, I want to follow up on one of the
questions that council member Coopermanman asked, which is, um, when
if and when we adopt this, probably when we adopt this in some form
on as to that figure 11. Um, what are we going to be adopting
and what are we not going to be adopting? Are we going to be I mean is
that going to set in priority I guess your
um future activity? Is that what we're talking about or is there some something
different than that?
» So the way I understand it is I mean everything in the document would be
adopted. um the key aspects in terms of priorities or future goals and
objectives really comes down to that matrix. So looking at the the goals,
strategies and action items for each division,
priority level, time frame, etc. So if there's something for instance that
we have as a low priority happening 10 years from now and council thinks it
needs to be a high priority happening one year from now like that feedback's
great because that's going to you know trickle into CIP planning and um
staff focus etc etc. So I think that's you know the type of feedback from a
high level um now of like do we have the right goals, strategies, action items
and are we thinking about this the right way in terms of the priorities based on
input from the community. >> Okay. Um
got a couple of >> I think Adam has a thought too. I was
just I was going to maybe highlight something. Not that anybody asked, but I
would. It's a it's a huge component of the the plan that we were kind of able
to work with the consultant and especially OSAB. I appreciate uh Vice
Chair Dorsy being here this evening and the trails plan specifically as a a
framework and a rubric for how to start addressing the social or undesated trail
issues throughout our system. And there will be a direct tie-in to that with the
figure 11 uh classifications based on current recommendations for what that
that's going to look like in the trails plan. Um so there's definitely a tiein
that impacts day-to-day maintenance and future larger scale investment.
Okay. Um, another question I had relating to
the I guess it's trail 18. Um, and I I think um if I'm recalling
one of the um emails that we received suggested
perhaps running that along 96. Um, and I guess I was interested if you
have any thoughts about that um whether that's um something that was
evaluated um and what your thought is around that.
I'm not suggesting thorough. I'm just interested in what your thinking process
was around that. >> Yeah. So, the intent of the maps was
really to cast out ideas and see um what are potential connections that could be
made in the future. We had a trails workshop last November um that involved
a variety of stakeholders from different um kind of perspectives and and realms
within the city. Um and some of that came out of that um workshop of you know
opportunities for new connections. I think that trail in particular uh
relates to the Red Tail Ridge and that kind of emerging development and how
that might shift um circulation patterns around the city as
well as the um uh the what do we call it acquisition
sorry drawing a blank of the Paradise Lane properties um and how that kind of
extends um to the north. So there's an opportunity there. Um I will say that in
the prioritization of the different trails,
the feedback that we got that specific trail was not a high priority. So we
asked for instance the OSAB group um and trails task force of these you know
20some different potential trails which are your top five. Um that trail was not
in the top five. So from that standpoint, I don't think that
particular trail is something that we're looking at as a a high priority item. It
was more captured on a map for the purpose of conversation and feedback
collection and where the community interest is in not only that connection,
but 20 others around the city. Um in addition to underpasses, regional trail
connections, you know, there's some different layers to that mapping um that
was done. So that's kind of where that trail falls in the the bigger picture.
» So tell me if this is right that u that's sort of a that's in the category
of things to be determined later. It's not something that we would be if we
adopted this we would be adopting that particular piece of it. I'll I'll go
back to the slide a couple PowerPoint slides again about what the intent of
this plan is. Right? The intent of this plan is to set strategy with clear
understanding that investment. We'll reference back to this when we make
project recommendations, infrastructure recommendations,
maintenance, infrastructure needs. It's not intended to be overly
prescriptive. It's pretend it's intended to showcase
an incredibly high amount of public feedback that we were able to attain
that leads us to saying what we say we think the community would like to see
implemented out of this plan. But every one of those implementation items,
especially related to items like the budget that council would be approving,
uh would have the same public engagement that any other project or planning
process would have. Good. Thanks. Um, any other questions? If there are any
more questions, we'll take public comment.
» Um, first up is Matt Jones, followed by Cindy Bedell.
that on now. Uh Matt Jones live in Lewisville. Thanks for the opportunity.
I'm going to be talking about open space tonight. I appreciate there's a lot more
in the pro plan than that, but I'm talking about open space.
And you know, I'll remind you that the city charter and the standards as
preservation and protection is a priority. I can read it to you if you
want me to read the language. You probably know it.
And this the language that sets up the land classifications areas.
A lot of places in the plan you see the word balance between recreation and
ecolog and environmental protection. And it's phrased a lot of different ways. I
don't know why, but it is. This plan is not even balanced between
environmental protection and recreation. It is way out of balance. And in part
because there have been a lot of decisions over the years that put it in
that place and there's a prime example that so you
should be projecting right that's what the charter says or constitution says
not even balancing but balance isn't even happening that's how out of whack
this is a good example is the land classifications you have them currently
uh that the new ones have when we put this together when we these land
classifications went into I I was part of that. We wanted roughly equivalent
property acreage in these things. And if you look
at the map, preservation, the most protective category is at 6%.
Protections at 30%. Those should be at 50% or somewhere near that. And they
should each be about 25%. And I'll tell you where the most one of the most
glaring examples of where this is a problem is in the land classifications
with in the Cole Creek. You can look at Dutch Creek area and Cole Creek.
They used the vegetation mapping for eastern cottonwood flood plane woodland
and only use part of it.
flood plane's a repairarian area, right? It's huge, huge miss. It should have had
the whole part of that vegetation type at a minimum. And then you should
overlay environmental protection criteria
uh and use that such as repairing areas of the highest value wildlife habitat
you have. That was all supposed to be in in a preservation category in the 2001
in two two inventory. It was that way and it's not. That should all be
protected and it should be 25%. And that's relative importance. Uh the other
thing I would mention is the trail connection you were talking about. I
would take that trail off the map. >> Off the map.
» Mr. Jones, your time is over. >> Okay.
If I've done a lot of trail planning in my life, that one wouldn't even make the
list because of the environmental impact. You can read my letter. Thank
you. >> Thanks.
» Next up, Cindy Bedell.
» Oh, hi. Can you hear me? Yeah. So, I'm Cindy Bedell. I live in war I and um
first of all I want to thank the open space parks and recck department for
everything they do. It's a wonderful amenity and I really enjoy it. Um one of
my concerns is bright flood lights from properties bordering open space that
impact wildlife, bird migration, and evening human walkers and bike riders.
As you probably know, city council was presented with a possible dark sky
ordinance in the past which was not passed.
That ordinance did include something about residential light trespass on open
space. The dark sky lighting information that used to be on the city of
Louisville website didn't make it to the new website. And I'd like to see that
put back up so that people who are interested can learn more about dark
night sky lighting and very simple measures that can be taken to preserve
our dark skies. Just um light fixtures that point light down amber and the
appropriate wattage. It's all that's really needed. Um but a lot of people
have these super bright flood lights that are on motion detectors. So I walk
at night in Coyote Run and they just turn on and blind me, you know, and then
it's very bad for the wildlife. What and when these thousands of new housing
units go in that's called for in the new comp plan, especially the many planned
for west of McCaslin, our dark night sky over open space is going to be greatly
impacted. Right now, many of us go to Davidson Mesa to view planetary events,
night photography, dark night sky, and all of that is going to be lost without
measures to protect the dark night sky near Davidson Mesa and other open
spaces. And again, um, I've studied this a little bit about dark skylighting and,
um, the measures can be very simple and especially with new builds, I would
think it wouldn't be that more cost prohibitive just to put in fixtures that
point down, have some measures in place about wattage and, you know, amber
lighting instead of bright light. So, I don't think it's very expensive,
especially at the new build. So, I'd really like to see something about light
trespass and light trespass mitigation measures on open space um addressed and
included in the um pros plan. Thank you. >> Thank you, Cindy.
» Any others? >> No, there's no um thanks. Um let's take
it back to council. I want to do a little bit of framing on this one. Um,
first I others can speak to this obviously, but I think I speak on behalf
of all all the council that this is a monumental effort and we really
appreciate all the work that's gone into this by staff and by the community. Um,
I was, um, you know, I I I looked at the community
engagement and and we've talked about this a bit and I thought it was a really
good example of community engagement following on to the
uh, comp plan, but it's actually more community engagement than in the comp
plan. And um I I really appreciate that. I think that's this is you know uh open
space and parks are huge as assets to the city and we all want to protect them
not just because the charter says we have to protect the open space for
example but because it's critically important to who we are.
Um, and it's worth maybe reminding us based on some of the the stats there
that we have 34 parks, 173 acres of parks. That's um
about what 8.2 to 8.5 acres um per thousand. Uh that's below the average uh
nationally and it's below the average in our peer communities
um by a pretty significant amount. Um but
uh it is those are very important to us and especially as we attract um families
and so forth. We're going to that's an important concern in this on open space.
I I think it's important to recognize that although there are 675
acres of city-owned
open space, there's, you know, 2,000ish acres that are owned not necessarily by
um the city, but others as well. So, um, and we're second only to Boulder County
and that, I mean, it makes me very proud, but it also,
you know, certainly informs the the process. Um,
you know, the north star for certainly for open space is charter, as Matt Jones
said. I um we can talk in just a minute about that piece, but it's pretty
important. The two documents are going to be community documents though they
have been um drafted with respect to this wide community input and I am uh
confident in the staff and the work that's been done that um
the content is consistent with that um input. Um these are drafts.
Um, we're not making a decision tonight. Um, I think you heard a little bit in
terms of what we're deciding on, what we're not eventually, but um, there's
more time for community input and there will be, um, that. So, um, I think
that's a pretty important thing for us to
to think about and I think there, as I understand what staff is looking for,
we're looking for some uh guidance on forward direction
and that's what we're here for. So, with that in mind, what kind of comments to
Yes. Council member Dickinson, what do you have?
» Yeah. Um, you know, I I liken this to the comp plan. Um I think I've said in
in other moments that you know something this big is like it's everything and
it's nothing, right? Like it's this really really really important document
and in the end it isn't what we actually use on a on a daily basis. It's a
guiding light. Um and so it's very important we get it right and then
there's a lot of work to do after its eventual adoption um to think about like
yeah what where's the money actually coming from? which specific project is
actually being funded and when. But I think this is an awesome um
uh draft and an awesome plan. I think one of the things that's really clear to
me and I just, you know, as as a council person, I've actually been on council
for nearly seven years and yet I take almost in my mind no credit for what we
have as a community when it comes to the parks, the open space, uh our
recreational facilities, all those things. It it for the most part predates
my time on council. And and I think, you know, that's just a really cool story
as, you know, this is this is my turn and I'm here and what I think is being
asked of me is don't screw it up. We've done a really really good job over the
last 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. Uh we have incredible open space, incredible
uh bike paths, amazing parks and playgrounds and pools, and incredible
rec center. um all these amazing things. A golf course that I love I love to play
at as well. There's so many wonderful things that we have that you know it's
not to say that we don't have our own goals but I really like this idea of you
know taking care of what we have because we've done such a good job of creating
it and and having it. And I say we as in all the people that came before me, not
so much me. Um, I I think we've done a great job and I think this plan is
thoughtful and I like how you guys um I think the conversation we had the other
day is uh less dreaming and more doing like we have all these things that we
want to do and all these things that we need to do and this plan is a little bit
more uh oriented towards you know divisions getting their jobs done,
divisions doing what they need to do over the next 10 years to to preserve
what we have. Um, take care of what we have and and that's not just preserving
open space, it's preserving our incredible rec center, preserving our
other incredible things. So, I think it's great. Um, and I I'm I know it's
still in draft form and I think similar to the comp plan, it's so much bigger
than the seven of us, right? This is a living public document that so many
people have had input on. So many departments, so many um boards and we
are another one of those groups that is really important just like so many other
groups are really important. Um I don't currently have you know any certainly
nothing substantial uh to to change. I I think it's really
well done and I think we've gotten a lot of positive feedback uh both directly,
you know, people speaking to me and indirectly through comments I've heard
from all sorts of people, talking to all sorts of people. But, um I I think you
guys have crushed it so far. It's not done. I'm excited to hear other
people's, you know, continued feedback and to see what the next iteration looks
like. But super impressed.
» Others. Yes, Council Member Her. >> Yeah, thanks. Um, you know, I know I've
shared a lot of my feedback directly with staff. Um, it I think there's a lot
of things to like in here in terms of the amount of community input. I think
we have a lot of really good sort of statistical information about what
people asked for, sort of what what does the wish list look like in terms of what
people want. I think there's a lot of great descriptive information about what
um conditions are like now. um especially in the trails plan. And I
think there's a lot of that good information
um the vegetation survey the existing condition the needs assessment the the
thing that I struggle with is I look at the action items and a substantial
majority I mean well more than 50% feel re just really generic like let's align
our budget with our priorities you know let's let's assess our needs and then
figure out what to do about our needs and it I don't know that it's going to
be at a point for me where it's like oh let's go back and tweak those I think
it's kind of past that point now and so the thing I'm struggling with and I
guess my question to all of you is and I think that the mayor was getting at this
a little bit with his questions or something similar is what does it mean
if we adopt this as a plan right I mean a lot of the things in here to me are
like they're great wish list items they're great best practices like we
should align our budget with our priorities I agree with that and and
certainly wouldn't reject that idea. At the same time, it doesn't The last time
we were in here with a consultant, he said, "This is going to spell out what
we're doing in year one and year two and year three, and it's going to be
specific actionable items and that sort of checklist to check off." I I don't
totally see that here and I'm struggling a little bit with how sort of how we
adopt this as a plan when at least in my mind it it sort of doesn't quite rise to
the level of a of a plan that we could implement in a meaningful way while at
the same time it has lots of value in terms of what does the community want,
what are good practices for managing open space and parks and recreation. Um,
so that that's where I'm at and certainly don't want to discount all of
the work that went into it. I know there's a tremendous amount of work and
community engagement and I think the most valuable thing we got out of it is
the results of the community engagement and the research into things we might
do. Um, I I just would hate to be sort of locked
into saying these are all things we're we're going to do. like if we did all
the high priority and ongoing items, it would far exceed
our wildest dream of available resources. So, um I think that's my
piece. Thanks all. >> Other comments? Yes, Council Member Fee.
» I'll just build Well, sorry. Um on what Councilman Hefner just said. I think
that this is this isn't a plan. It's a guide book. And so this is just going to
guide us to the right plan and to the right outcomes without specifying
because we don't know what will be the best decision two years from now. This
is going to guide us and say, you know, look at this and look at that and go
this way, but we need this isn't the plan for what we're actually going to
do. And so I think it's it's been wonderfully put together and it does
have the priorities of of the public and the council and so we're just moving
forward in this direction and we can change whenever we want.
» Do you mind if I just is your proposal we take like long range
plan out of the title? Well,
um I'm not sure. Well, this is the pros
guide book.
» Yeah, but the sort of the core document is called the the long range plan,
» right? But this is kind of guiding us to a long range plan.
So, I'm not sure exactly.
» I don't think we need to be that specific
» in in what what the book says >> because it's just saying we're going to
go in this direction. These are our priorities and these are the order in
which we would like to do things but it's not what we're actually going to
do. It's just possibilities and a guide. That
» that's helpful. I think I agree. Okay.
Um yeah. Um I guess first of all I I sort
of share um Council Member Hefner's concerns. Um I I do think though that
Council Member Fehees comment helps to delay that to some extent. Um
I wanted to make a few more specific comments.
Um, so reading through
um both the trails and the and the pros um plans or whatever you might call
them. Um so you know
we have our guiding principles, we have uh goals, strategies, action items, but
then we also have places where there are themes and where there are priorities
and where they're recommendations and where there are challenges and
opportunities and next steps. And I I just feel like it's kind of it needs
to be less confused or less uh or or somehow these things need to be
condensed. Um like because a lot of I mean if you if
you go to a page with some priorities or if you look at the challenges a lot of
those are reflected in the goals or the strategies or something like that. And I
I just find it's rather confusing to, you know, to have like read the goals,
but then in next steps it's like, oh wait, wait, like there are these next
steps, but they're not aligned with the goals. Um, and I just feel like there
could be a lot more clarity in how we present um all of those different
things. Um, and you know, a little aspect of that, like I think the the
challenges is very nice. um especially like how it really seems to have come
out of feedback. Um it the opportunities just feel a little silly because they're
just like the the opposites of the challenges. So it, you know, it's fine,
but uh I just feel like it's a little a little silly. Um so that's one comment.
Again, something I brought up um yesterday with staff um which kind of
feeds into that general comment um you know we on engage Lewisville you can go
look at all the survey results um and and such in full. Um I don't know if the
idea is to include those as appendices in the guide book or not. Um that might
be a nice idea. Um, but I would just like to reiterate I I feel a little bit
like it's reading the the plan the the two plans by
themselves. It's a little hard to understand how the community feedback
sort of directly uh flows into all the goals and
strategies and so forth. So, um I don't know if that could be clarified in in
some way. I think that would be helpful too.
Um okay. And then um
a little bit more specifically than that. So um
let's see. Um I'll just go through a few different comments. Uh there's talk
about parking facilities at I think both trail heads and open space
properties and parks maybe. Uh but I didn't really see anything about bicycle
parking at those locations. Um
let's see in terms of the um the map with the ideas for trails and so forth.
Um I I mean I that's I think that's a great
part of the trails plan. I I would just see and and in that section there is an
introductory paragraph that you know sort of explains um
the the context for those maps. Um I I would just think about making it more
explicit like on the maps themselves like these are ideas or you know just to
just to be very clear like these are ideas that our community has about where
we could do these all the improvements but you know they still have to then go
through that whole kind of process that you lay out in the plan. Uh just make
that more explicit than it is at the moment.
Um let's see.
Um and then what else did I Oh, so then to
go back to the um the map with the open space designations.
Um so on the one hand that map is like based on the vegetation survey is really
informative. Um, I guess what I might like to see is, you know, since we have
established management designations, I feel like
that that should be shown maybe somewhere and then like you could show
the information from the vegetation survey as like informing
I don't know like possible changes to that or something like or something
around like that. But, you know, since we do have formally adopted management
practices for the open space, I feel like that needs to be stated like those
things are not going to be changed unless the council makes a new decision.
Um, and so it just needs to be clear that what's being shown in that other
map is like uh information from this survey that we did. Um,
okay, a couple other comments. Um, let's see. Um,
what was I going to say? The there was a suggestion in some of the
letters we got um about the open space goals and whether or not they should be
prioritized. Um, you know, on the one hand, I
understand why the goals are not prioritized. Uh, but then on the other
hand, like it is established in the charter sort of what the priorities are.
And so, I do feel like we should I don't know what the best way to do it
is, but we should we should take that prioritization from the charter and
somehow imprinted on those goals. Um, that's one comment. Um, I know I'm just
kind of skipping around, but um an another one um related mostly to parks
um and maps of parks. Um, so there's a very nice map that shows all the parks,
kind of the main parks. Um, I actually think it would be really helpful if we
have it to show those like smaller park segments in some other map, the rights
of ways and things like that. Um, I don't know. I I think that's useful
information. Um, not not crucial though. Um, but then another there's another map
that shows places sort of for potential park development. Um, and on that I had
two comments. one um kind of related to the previous
comment like are there it might be nice to know if there are smaller parcels
uh that could still see some kind of park development um but are not
highlighted there. Uh and then the other thing is um kind of coming back to a
comment that council member Heftter made in the the first section of the meeting
today. um you know like we're expecting to see residential development in
various places in the city and it might be nice to say something about having
park facilities in those places uh on that map. Um
okay. Um
Okay. Um maybe I have one more comment um about the golf course. Um
there was I don't know maybe maybe this didn't come out in the community
feedback but there was nothing that sort of addressed like the golf course as a
municipal golf course or or not very directly I felt like and I was just
wondering like did we did we get any feedback about like you know this being
the community's golf course a municipal golf course rather than some other type
of golf course and I don't know if that came through or not um I thought it
might be interesting if there were something around that. Um
okay. Yeah, those are some comments. Um I
think that's all for now.
» Mayor, if I may. >> Yes.
» Um comments. Thank you, Sam. It's important
to reflect that um you know as these comments are made, we take these unless
we hear otherwise as direction from all of council that you want us to make
these changes. And so it's helpful as these comments come up to get
clarification from council as to is there a majority support for some of
these requests? uh because the next steps would be for Adam and Brian to
take this and then make these modifications.
And also um you know, we we appreciate these comments. I think that's part of
the direction that they're looking for tonight as well as as we obtain
additional public comment, as we obtain additional council comments, because
you'll continue to review these and have comments like how do you want us to take
this in? And if if staff's goal is to bring this back in October, is that a
realistic goal or do we need to take these comments,
bring it back again because there's probably going to be additional comments
and then say where are we drawing the line on this or are we just bringing
this forward as the best bet of what it reflects from a community standpoint and
then also from a council standpoint. And then just one other thing that I really
want to to highlight and um Brian if you could go back to this slide the plan
intent. Um
the intent of this was to gather input, establish direction and set priorities.
As we've noted, we've had tremendous community input on this. We'll continue
to have community input on this. Um this is as much as this has been an outward-f
facing process. this once this is moves forward, it's going to be more of an
inwardfacing implementation document. And so, you
know, staff wants to make sure that it represents council and the community's
priorities because it is it really is going to be a great decision tool. And
some of the things that we talked about like yesterday is as we receive requests
from individuals like for specific recreational amenity and you might get,
you know, sick people that submit an email to council, but when you look at
the survey results, we received two survey results for that item, but we
received a thousand results for another item. That helps council and staff um
determine what projects move forward. And to council member Hefner's point,
um, you know, this document, while initially intended may have been to
outline more details related to projects,
I think we're at a good point. I trust staff to take this the next step in
terms of development of project, particularly with the challenges that we
have with our budget and the CIP and capital funding and figuring out
prioritization based upon the funding available. I would not um while the
consultant is helpful, I would not rely on the consultant to make those
recommendations or decisions. I would rely on staff to do that. And so I just
want to say that um I I'm very appreciative of staff and how you've
gotten it to this point. Um, and it is very valuable. And when I hear staff
say, "This is what we need for the next 10 years to be able to operate this
department and be able to present options to council that are supported by
statistically valid information and supported by a lot of input from the
community. That means a lot. And um, you know, I I
truly appreciate all the effort. I appreciate council's input on this. I
appreciate the public comments and as you noted, tonight is not adoption. We
will continue to make these changes, but it is important for staff to understand
what are the specifics of what you would like to see in the next round that comes
forward so that we're making sure that we're using our time most effectively.
Thank you. >> Um, you anticipated me. I haven't made
my comments yet and I want to try to bring together and try to summarize some
of the things that I hear so that we can move forward and answer some of the
questions that you've raised manager because I I think those are really
important particularly pra practical questions about how we proceed. Um I I
really wholeheartedly think of of council member Cooperman's
just uh um observations and recommendations are terrific
and um maybe to the point I I think part of this is that is difficult is what's
always difficult in this which is the level of specificity
and the level of generality that we bring to this. Um, and you know, almost
all of the comments, uh, you know, kind of wrestled with that. Um, I I I agree
especially with if we can kind of clean up the many different descriptions
and reference points of um planning strategies, goal,
priorities, challenges, strategy, you know, next steps. It I think it'll read
better for the public, for us. I think we can uh that'll provide a good lens in
in which to see this in a way that I think it's harder now. Um I don't think
you know I'm mindful of the timing in the process because we're not going to
redo all this. We're just not. And this is a and not nobody's suggesting that. I
mean, uh, I saw your eyes get very big there for a second, Adam. Um, we're not
going to do that. We don't have the resources, but we have an extraordinary
product to work with. These are, in my mind, the things I'm talking about are
tweaks. And frankly, I don't think I've heard anything from any council member
that is uh anything. But um I I think from my perspective it may be
good to distinguish more between
um the policy direction and the more granular projects. Um I don't know how
you do that. I don't know that you necessarily want to put them in a you
know in an appendex. I that may be too much. But I think linking them to the
goals and and linking them to the public comment a little bit more tightly will
be, you know, a I think a better result at least for me. um
on on parks particularly it it would be nice uh as I think was mentioned to
think about have some information reference to the kinds of things that
we've we've uh decided or um the direction we gave in the comp plan we
know certain parts of the city particularly west of Mccasin are going
to develop over some period of time or at least we believe that it will and we
certainly are encouraging that but it might be nice to understand you know
some thoughts on that and how at least have it referenced so it's not out there
um and you know to uh Matt Jones point
before I think it's always critical to be looking at what I call the guiding
star which is the uh charter I I don't think anybody disagrees with that. And I
do believe that staff has done a a good job with that. I think it may uh based
on what you've heard may be worth fleshing out a little bit more. Um I'm
not going to try editing any of that and I'll leave that to staff's good
judgment. Um, I really do appreciate the degree to which you've worked with so
many different boards, commissions, people, uh, you know, in all of the
public engagement. And I think we just need to to bring that out. Um,
I think to summarize,
um, and I would like some feedback on these, um, because they are they're
different points, right? They're not I I didn't hear a lot of conflict. You may
disagree with me on the level of specificity. We may disagree a little
bit on that. Um, I think there were some just questions about uh how the document
is written which I think you've taken in and I don't know the are going to be
really things that we really need to debate too much here. I think all of the
comments that were made about um you know a revision of it were were pretty
good in in terms of just language and organization.
Um uh
you know I I think um
one thing I certainly heard was the need to establish connections between
um the a little bit better than than perhaps was done between um the
vegetation survey and the the open space app
um and um address you know perhaps a little bit more what the decisions were
internally to get to that point. Um uh I think we talked a little bit about
you know parks where parks might be uh built. I think we talked a bit um
about maintenance. I I heard that coming particularly from council member um
Dickinson um that it's really important to address
um and maintain what we have and do it well. Um
I I don't think it ought to be in there in the language, but don't screw it up.
It is not a bad thing. We've got a really good um sense of I think we've
done pretty well on open space and there's a lot of there's some
disagreements around that but I do think um we need to build we are building on
that and I do appreciate uh affirming that. Um,
a couple of other um
things. Um, and I may have mentioned this, but just
sort of the the distinguishing between policy areas that council
really needs in there and has talked about
as opposing
as a main issue. I mean, we're going to be adopting the whole thing. So I I
don't want to minimize but I think distinguishing
um the major policy goals from uh the more granular projects and so
forth is something I've heard from several folks. Um
let's see those are those are the main things that
I've heard but I am I don't first I don't know there any people agree with
the way I've the ones that I've stated are should be in there, but two whether
I've left something out. Yeah. >> Council.
» Yeah. So, I guess I think about it in a slightly different way. Um,
which is it's been, you know, the better part of two years of engagement. I am
reluctant to insert ourselves directly into the editing process. I I think this
is all in my view this is all useful feedback um to staff and they should
sort of think about it and chew on it and consider whether it it makes sense
and whether there's sufficient remaining resources to accomplish the feedback if
it does make sense. Um I I don't know that I'm especially comfortable sort of
directing fine grain adjustments at this point and and the one that I think I
the most of them I don't necessarily object to. I just don't want to sort of
write from the dis. The one I do think might be a problem is sort of
substantial reorganization to try and collapse the recommendations and
opportunities and all, you know, action items into a more better organized
format. Like that would be nice, but as I understand it, we've run through
almost all of our $400,000 budget for this. And I I don't want to send a
consultant back to rewrite the whole report to organize it differently. Um,
even though I mean I I think I share the quibble about I, you know, council
member Coopermanman said it very well that there's like a lot of different
action items and recommendations and things sort of scattered about and it's
difficult to follow them. I I also don't know if it's the best use of our
remaining dollars to try and fix that. So,
back to sort of the the bigger picture, uh, my preference would be to let staff
continue through the remaining engagement window. consider this input
as part of that engagement window. Um, and then I I I really don't know and
others may feel differently like I don't know that I necessarily want to adopt
this as a council plan per se. I I think maybe we receive it as like you know the
plan the plan that we have um we receive it from staff and say this is this is
good work and important work that you'll be able to use in the future. But I
don't know if I'm at the point where I want to, you know, sort of do a
resolution saying this this is the plan for the city. Um, and so in that vein, I
I'd prefer to let staff just continue doing the engagement they've done.
» Let me clarify one thing. Just I said I I think I'm not interested in the staff
doing a rewrite either, and I'm not sure council member Coopermanman was. Um but
you know these are I think suggestions. There's a few suggestions. Um and
certainly the budget for this is we don't want to blow it. We've already
spent plenty of that. We don't have very much left. Um and we do you know we
trust you in terms of taking the input that you've had and you decide what you
want to do with it. Um I think the the suggestions have been useful but um and
I I think it's interesting it's an interesting question about
whether we adopted or not. I I'm
um these it includes policy level um recommendations and I think not to um
not to adopt some form of it is uh
I think a real problem. I I understood that there may be parts of it that you
don't want to adopt, but I mean I I think that's what staff has presented,
what we have directed them to come up with the has been spent in terms of the
consultant and the public process. I think it would be irresponsible
not to see that process through. Um but um
anyway, I'll I'll leave others to kind of debate that, but I it's an it's an
important point. I just uh I think what it may augur for is more time for staff
to work on things as much as they expect as opposed to trying to push this too
fast you know to the October deadline which I don't know is a you know it's
not a hard and fast deadline especially given
you know the time that has been spent but others
Yes, ment >> I have a question for my W three team
member. Um, help me to understand from your point of view
the difference between adopting it as for council adopting it versus it being
a staff document. Walk me through that. >> Yeah. So I mean I I think of it as are
we signing off sort of that these are the right set of recommendations and
priorities that have been sort of informed by our
input and at least what I'm looking at
especially with respect to the long range plan less so with respect to the
trails plan it's it's more of just a sort of a summary of a lot of
information and so to sign off on it as a plan and
thinking about 10 years into the future when most of us, probably all of us,
won't be sitting here and some proposal comes forward and it's
like, well, that's in the plan. We should go do it. Um, there's like this
plan could justify almost any idea. It's it just speaks in such broad
generalities that I would rather have it as a as a tool than a plan. And maybe
it's just a semantics thing. Um, I think about like for example the the
police strategic document that was presented to us which was really a
police department ideas that weren't substantially
informed by us on a policy basis. It was just sort of brought to us as here's
some ideas we have and we're presenting it to you and um this is all interesting
information. And I think we heard it and said that's great. we've received your
strategic document, but I don't think we adopted that as our plan. Um, I think I
think we did a similar thing with the sustainability plan where there was some
question about does this really reflect the sort of costbenefit analysis we were
interested in. Um, and I think we received it but didn't necessarily adopt
it as a formal plan. I may be misremembering that, but I know there
was discussion. Um or maybe it was the decar plan,
» the community decar. >> Community decar plan. Um
and so to me, like I think this these documents have a lot of value in so far
as they're informative. I think they have a lot of value in so far as the
information is persuasive, but as I I think of a plan as something different,
like here's how we're going to go about our business. This is what we intend to
do. um you know and even the best laid plans you end up doing something
different but I don't see this like we I don't see this as something we could
just say okay let's go execute the plan um because to the level of generality
thing it's just a lot of it's a there's a lot of plans to make a plan there's a
lot of best management practices uh there's a lot of things we're already
doing but I don't see sort of a an actionable
set of priorities and I I also you know to the extent I had comments earlier I
just don't see those comments really reflected
» others council fee
» I'm wondering about the same kind of thing um and instead of calling it our
long range plan we could just call it our guide book our
pros guide book for what we would like to see but it there is no requirement
there's no timeline there's and it's up for discussion and changes
at any point >> that's a long title
» um others
» yes may >> so I'm I'm I would like to hear from the
city manager and other staff about um council member
Hefner's thoughts around adoption versus um not.
» So, Adam, are you okay with me taking this first?
» Okay. Um I think if council chooses not to adopt
it, it's going to create confusion within the community as to whether or
not this is council supported.
We have other plans within the city that are not council adopted. There's a storm
water plan as you know there's the decarb plan. But I think that that has
also created questions within the community of like well you created this
plan but why didn't council adopt is this your official plan or is this just
staff's plan? and some fresh staff. I think it'll be confusing too because as
there's um inquiries from the community or we are uh referencing this plan to
say why we're not putting something forward as a recommendation then that
could be challenged in terms of well this wasn't adopted by council so does
this represent council's feelings on this too. Um
you know so that's Adam do you have anything to add on that or Samma as
well?
I would add that I think while I respect the comments, I think that from a staff
perspective, there is specificity in the draft. I
think we've heard that there's a desire to tie more specificity
into the final product to kind of align with where we got from a scope of work
or maybe be more clear. Um, we're we're big fans of the matrix. I think the
matrix can be refined. It's specifically outlining what we consider to be the
goals and future action items with priority listing of where that would
fall based on available resources. Um, you know, I also I also think to the
point earlier that I was I was going to chime in on, I think there's real
validity to the comments we've heard tonight about making it easier to read.
And I think that's really helpful for us. I don't think we have to rewrite it
to reformat it in a way that combines four or five of those areas of focus
into more of the executive summary upfront. Here's what this is going to
say. And then you get into the charts and the graphs and the other things
behind it. Um, so that's that's fine. Um, you know, for for me I I I think it
may be a bit of semantics, but I do think to city manager's point
there and and in our industry, right? So I'm just speaking for how other
communities go about doing this process with people in my role sitting in this
chair is there is real there's real value to adopting
the document from a support standpoint from a you know I think it can be
anecdotal it can have comments that are associated with it about interpretation
um it's it's similar to the resolution that accompanies parks and recreation
month for example and and aligning with that designation I think it kind of
reinforces to staff and to the mayor's point
earlier about the level of community engagement even exceeding that of the
city's 20-year plan. Um the the value of that community's input through the
adoption process. That being all said, we're here to serve at the pleasure of
the council and the city manager. And so if it's supported and it's
» Yeah. Yeah. I would support director Black and Manager Langley as well in
that it's really helpful for us as staff to have council adopting these because
we we have clarity for the community for staff in what council supports. Now,
these plans are living breathing things and I think that Brian has done a really
good job of explaining that this will continue to breathe. I recognize that
some of these things are subject to appropriations, right? We can't do all
of these things all the time, but this will help guide staff when they're
bringing forward CIPs, when they're balancing projects, and knowing what the
community has decided as a priority. And having that council support and
community support through this robust process and the board and commission
support really helps them use this as a tool to do all of those things.
» Thank you. That's um very helpful. I I hear Council Member Hefner's concerns
and comments. My takeaway is
it's really important that it's an adopted document.
I really don't have any interest in workshopping tonight with council what
the title is or what we're going to call it or anything, but I think maybe you
all can take that offline um and maybe workshop it a little bit,
but I hear you that what I'm hearing is it's really important that it's an
adopted document is what I'm hearing. So, thank you for enlightening me on
your thoughts and staff for for sharing your thoughts on that as well.
» Others who haven't spoken.
» Yes, Council Member Kern. >> So, can do you mind if I like segue off
of this for a moment and just go to actually something that's in here
combining trails and the guide book? Thank you. Is that okay? So, one of the
things that you guys had mentioned in here was providing trail connections to
parks, and there is one map that has uh like the parks numbered so that it's
easier to see where they are on the map and then have a reference sheet. is
would it be helpful or is it possible because I I would find it helpful if one
of those trails plans actually had these numbered 34 parks with it so we could
see where those connections were. And you it mentions I think throughout
because I I I agree actually with Council Member Heapner. I really um
think that the the trails guide book is particularly well put together. Um, but
that was the one thing that I went I was going back and forth between the two
plans to try to match that up and thought maybe I'm missing something and
I would just bring it up with you guys. You had said like take a little you
asked us the other day like look at it in a little bit more detail and I
realized oh that that is the one thing I couldn't find. So um I appreciate that.
Thank you for the indulgence.
Anybody else who hasn't? >> Unless of course nobody agrees and then
they should not listen to me at all.
» Yeah, I don't think you have actually on this issue.
» Um I don't know. I mean,
I guess we never maybe made it explicit in our previous conversations, but I um
I I just sort of assumed all along that we would eventually this would come to
us and we would vote on whether or not to adopt it. Um
so, um
I don't know. I I I do like the sort of the certainty that uh a formal adoption
would give to staff. Um I think um I don't know, maybe I just need to
think a little bit more about um that question, but I at the moment I I do
think it would be helpful to our staff if we considered it for adoption.
» I agree. I think that uh staff needs the assurance that uh we're supporting what
they've done and the public needs to know that we're supporting what the
staff has done. So I would also support um
supporting the long range plan.
Um, I I guess I want to I want to push this a bit because I'm
very concerned about where we are right now. I think we can take a vote about
how we do it. We've given direction on this
uh for some time now. There could be a question of course whether you followed
the direction or not. Uh I happen to think you did. Um generally there's
things that we all u disagree, you know, probably disagree with. It sounds like
the trails plan. Everybody I haven't heard anybody complain about that. So
that one it would be awfully odd in my view to accept the trails plan or and
and not do the same with the pros plan. I think it would be equally bizarre to
all agree on the trails plan and not adopt it. But um how much have we spent
on this? What is the budget for it and how much have we spent?
» It's a $400,000 total budget, 300 for the long range plan, 100 for the trails.
We have 14,000 remaining in contingency and 5,000 contractually obligated.
» I mean, when I say it's irresponsible, I that's what I mean. I can't imagine
anything I I certainly haven't done anything in for in 14 years on council
where we had an idea and and I don't think there was any question that we
were headed toward adoption where we just said a month left to go
maybe not. Um I I do think that that you know among other things it leaves staff
out to dry but I also think more importantly because we are deciding how
to move forward um I just don't think that's a a very
wise thing um on there you know I can speak to one thing that council member
Hefner mentioned the I think I think it was mentioned about well the the the
sustainability action plan or at least that was kind of the illusion. I think
the sustainability action plan was adopted by council because I did it. It
was part of that. Um and when we've changed it, it was changed by council.
So um you know others the transportation plan I mean you know go on and on about
the plans that we've had. Now you can distinguish between them. I I suppose I
my view is fix it. Don't mix it.
I don't think it's good to throw the baby out with a bath water. Not at this
point. Go ahead. So, mayor, if to to try to move this along,
um what I'm hearing, so there's some specific recommendations for map
changes, clarification on the map, trying to make some connections between
um the action items, priorities, and the public input, refining the executive
summary to make it more robust. Move the matrix up to the executive summary to
identify um these action items. look at nomenclature to see if we can try to
kind of make it more condensed or um easier to read. Um I think those things
are all achievable. Um to address some of of council member Hefner's concerns,
I would like to take a step. We have a CIP meeting um in September um where
we're going to do further refinement of the CIP. We have a meeting I believe
this week with pros related to CIP. I would like to take a step to let us kind
of work through the CIP and see if we can't somehow make a connection with
that. Um, so you can see that we are taking this plan and implementing it,
applying it to the CIP. Um, it may not be part of the document, but you can see
how we're applying it. And then so just leaves a couple of specific items that
that I need direction on to move forward. One being specific to trail 18.
So if you remember as part of the comp plan process there was conversations
there was input received related to this good hue ditch trail connection which is
trail 18. So I pulled up the comp plan um one of the figures and it says uh
good hu ditch trail connection is conceptual only future evaluation will
occur outside this plan eg trails master plan and will consider ecological
agricultural and legal constraints. So, the comp plan says that this trail
um will be, you know, considered as part of the the trail's master plan. So we do
need direction at some point as to if you would like to have this connection
removed from the plan, if you would like further consideration of this trail 18,
if you would like further clarification of the trail 18 to say, you know,
additional feasibility studies will need to be required before um this is
conceptual only. You know, kind of similar to the language that's in the
comprehensive plan. So that's that's one of the specific items. Um,
and then we've heard, you know, through some of the emails received today, we'll
condense those. Um, give you some themes from the additional public comment
that's received, note how we've addressed it. The other thing that I
want to point out that I, you know, hear clear from council member Coopermanman
in terms of this and some of others of you related to this open space map
that's based upon a vegetation survey versus a map that is the actual um like
council designated classifications. We can address that as well. And just to
note that that's based upon a vegetation survey. So I think a lot of these things
can be addressed. um we do need specific direction related to trail 18 and if you
would um give us some time to go back and kind of digest all of these comments
and come with a recommendation to move forward
» if um the council is inclined to both give you the what you need and
the staff to go back and do the reworking.
that time is going to have to slip. I mean, based on where we set it, right?
This is not going to get done or is >> I think it's to be determined. Okay.
» Um, you know, some of this information exists already. And so, from a mapping
perspective, it might be additional paragraph that's added to the map. Um,
or it might be taking a map from another source. I'm looking to Adam and Brian. I
think we need to have more conversation as to if this is going to make the
timeline slip. Um, some of these things are pretty straightforward to address.
Others we already knew were going to take a little bit more time in terms of
moving u things into the executive summary. So I I would I wouldn't not
ready to say that it's going to slip right now. We need to review it more.
» It's fair enough. It's premature. That's what I'm hearing. Um
well, why don't why don't we take the um the smaller, if you will, it depends
whether it's a small or big issue, but it's not the the big issue that council
member Hefner made. How do people feel about the uh that trail 18? Yes,
» thank you. I think um there's a desire for from the community
to have connection. Um and I would be in favor of of making
sure it's clear like we did in the comp plan that it's conceptual and additional
due diligence would need to be had before anything were to be implemented.
But I do believe people want a connection between RTR and downtown and
other places within our community. Council
member. >> Yeah, I would agree, but I would I would
also say that that includes 17, 18, and 19. All three of which are heading south
and are in the like the the the uh necessary to be expanded and evaluated.
I think all three could use greater evaluation as to the mayor prom's point
um as we develop red tail and see where those needs really lie. It could be that
it is greater access from a multi-use wide path along 42, quicker, easier to
get to the hospital or the businesses or what have you versus a recreational
trail. And I think that would be that would require a lot more evaluation than
we should be doing tonight.
Um, I mean the
staff can correct me, but you know, the way that I look at that map with the
possible future connections is like we went out to the community and we asked
them where they want to see connections and then we tried to summarize that and
this is the summary of that engagement. And so like I don't have any problem
just showing that. I just would want to be very clear like this is the status of
that map. Like these are th these are things that are ideas that our community
had. Um but you know to move forward with any of them we'd have to go through
that process of figuring out you know should you know should we actually go
through with any of these council >> just to make that very clear
» could I just could I just read from the plan and see if this solves the issue.
Uh, the proposed trail improvements are for consideration purposes only, each of
which will require further evaluation prior to final approval. All proposed
trail system improvements will undergo a thorough staff review and city council
approval prior to implementation. Evaluation criteria may include
connectivity, safety, ecological protection, maintenance cost, and staff
resource ability. >> That sounds good. Put that in there.
» That seems like a seems like a good disclaimer to me. Does that solve your
uh issue on that? Um to the larger point um I guess at this stage I mean I think
we've had good discussion about whether to adopt
uh this or whether we're heading to that direction whether people ultimately
choose to vote for it or not. Um is the direction to bring back a plan? I
mean, in terms of something council would adopt as opposed to just receive,
» we are we going to vote on it and adopt it as a as
» as mayor. Can I ask one clarifying question? I think also within
» that conversation is the conversation for what
» staff would be bringing back to you next as a whole. So based on the conversation
tonight, is there a desire to have another bite at the draft apple or
adoption or supporting or whatever we're going to call it when it gets to its
final stage? Is there a stage that we should be considering that happens
between that? >> I guess I had understood that we wanted
to get it back, but um is that a hand up or is that a thumbs
up? and a merit >> I think uh the city manager had proposed
earlier that we continue on the path forward of adoption of a document and
she's planning through CIP conversations to bring examples back to us of how the
document is going to be used to plan um so that was my understanding of the path
forward is we're still planning for adoption
» as as opposed to bringing back one more and then making a final decision on
adoption. >> Well, I think we are now blending
together two separate things. So, the question you asked was, are we going to
adopt the document or are we going to receive and file? And I think the city
manager earlier had proposed we move forward with adoption because she thinks
she can show us how it's being used as a plan through some CIP conversations with
staff. And then Adam just director Blackmore just asked I think a separate
question which is between that point and now is there another meeting where we
want to go into more detail about the document so I think there's two right am
I hearing there's two separate things here
» put that way um first yeah go ahead
» I'll just say on the on the second question for my money, the time is
better spent um having staff continue the continue community engagement
window, focus on that process. That that's who we really want to hear from.
Um and I'm sure to the extent any of us have additional comments on the draft,
we'll share those. But that that's just my view.
» Yeah, go ahead. >> Yeah, I would support both adopting when
we're done and uh not having another bite at the draft apple.
Fair enough. I keep I I I keep trying to find places where you where staff might
want another chance to come back. I I think that it sounds like
we want to keep moving toward uh one to get the public input, two to keep
working toward a draft that or a draft that we come back ultimately for
adoption. Um and that
you know we will see the changes after when we are on that path.
Any thumbs up, thumbs down,
» thumbs up, >> thumbs up.
» Okay. Does staff have the direction that it
needs?
» I think so. >> Okay. But from our side,
» we'll try to um incorporate some pretty intentional
effort into when we provide that plan for adoption, how this feedback has been
incorporated and we appreciate the comments.
» Okay. If council members have additional
thoughts they want to share with staff, fine. We'll have thoughts from the
public most certainly and look forward to that good discussion. Um thanks
uh for working through this with us. Tough discussion but a good one. Um
right I think uh the next part is uh see
appointment of council committee for potential amendments to city manager
employment agreement. Um I think um those who are working on the
uh evaluation of municipal judge and the prosecutor are um I venture to
say not going to be those who work on this next
» Mayor if I may yeah >> just make a brief presentation on what's
in your packet here. So this is um staff requesting C is council to appoint two
council members to serve on this committee to review and recommend
council potential amendments the employment agreement for the city
manager. As you pointed out this came up after the city manager's review which
happened very recently and council directed staff to follow up. We do have
two council members who have volunteered to be on this committee and that is
Mayor Pertam Hamilton and council member Hefner. So if council is supportive they
could make a simple motion to appoint these two to the committee.
All right. I spoke too soon. Go ahead. Council,
» I was just gonna say I'll make a motion. >> Okay.
» Second. >> As long as they're willing.
» Um, all in favor? >> I
So moved that we journ second. >> I I
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