1 00:01:05,490 --> 00:01:30,750 Good evening, everyone. I hereby call to order the August 24th, 206-level and planning commission meeting. Citizens that would like to make a public comment, may do so by calling 1-669-9060-6833-0. When prompted and are meeting ID-928-813-06479 followed by the pound sign. 2 00:01:30,750 --> 00:01:36,970 Press Pound when asked for the participant ID, you will be muted until it is time for public comment. 3 00:01:37,750 --> 00:01:42,010 Citizens are encouraged to watch via Comcast Channel 16-880, 4 00:01:42,510 --> 00:01:48,770 Post TV Channel 16 or online at www.lovgov.org slash TV. 5 00:01:49,110 --> 00:01:53,670 You may access a agenda material for this hearing this meeting. 6 00:01:54,450 --> 00:01:59,570 Along with instructions for public comment at www.cityofloven.org 7 00:01:59,570 --> 00:02:05,250 and by selecting services, development services, current planning, and finally public hearings. 8 00:02:06,350 --> 00:02:09,970 We will now rise for the political legions. Please do so if you're able. 9 00:02:27,340 --> 00:02:28,520 Thank you. 10 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,220 We are now going to do a roll call by name Lisa. 11 00:02:35,020 --> 00:02:36,100 Commissioner Dewey. 12 00:02:36,260 --> 00:02:36,520 Here? 13 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:37,500 Fisher? 14 00:02:38,220 --> 00:02:38,380 Here. 15 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:39,260 Long. 16 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:40,040 Here. 17 00:02:40,540 --> 00:02:41,060 Warnock? 18 00:02:41,340 --> 00:02:41,540 Here. 19 00:02:41,540 --> 00:02:42,620 Herrera, 20 00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:45,310 Powell, 21 00:02:47,770 --> 00:02:48,370 Shewitt. 22 00:02:48,590 --> 00:02:48,730 Here. 23 00:02:50,570 --> 00:02:51,010 Great. 24 00:02:51,630 --> 00:02:52,650 Thank you. 25 00:02:53,650 --> 00:02:55,530 Now is the time for citizen reports. 26 00:02:56,270 --> 00:03:00,430 This is time for citizens to address the commission on matters not on the published agenda. 27 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:07,150 Any participant would like to speak regarding citizen reports press star nine on your phone to alert the moderator. 28 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:11,110 Citizens will be asked to state their name and address before giving comment. 29 00:03:11,850 --> 00:03:15,070 Please be clearly a moment in your comment to approximately three minutes. 30 00:03:15,490 --> 00:03:19,370 Comanche comments should address planning or land use matters. 31 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:22,550 Commissioners are under no obligation to respond to questions. 32 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:24,290 Is there anyone in chambers? 33 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,220 I would say so. 34 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:33,900 Mr. Barrett. 35 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:40,480 Well, good evening. 36 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:41,020 Commissioners. 37 00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:41,980 My name's Darren Barrett. 38 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:42,460 Long time. 39 00:03:42,460 --> 00:03:57,760 I want to talk to you this evening about planning item PZ26-0080 and PZ26-008-8. 40 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:03,440 The first one is social cannabis at 2707 West Eisenhower. 41 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:10,320 The next one is a place called Kind Care, which is listed as being at the corner of Eisenhower 42 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:20,120 North Wilson Boulevard. If you guys recall, I was here at the planning mission, planning meeting on June 22nd, 43 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:27,840 and talked to you about a serious disconnection between the planning commission, these development plans for retail marijuana businesses, 44 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:36,220 and the administration in terms of granting licenses. That disconnect is still here in it is gotten worse, 45 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:37,740 as far as I'm concerned. 46 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,020 Now then, the following day from that planning meeting, 47 00:04:42,580 --> 00:04:45,940 this marijuana dispensary had an update. 48 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,940 On June 23rd, they updated it. 49 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,880 They're still going, they submitted more plans, 50 00:04:52,140 --> 00:04:55,320 they're still going, but they haven't gotten their license yet. 51 00:04:55,820 --> 00:04:58,180 And the other one, kind of care, 52 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:05,260 is only about 100 yards away from the 2707 West Location. 53 00:05:05,260 --> 00:05:12,140 They haven't gone through their licensing procedure yet either, but they still continue with permitting and as it was explained 54 00:05:12,140 --> 00:05:18,760 There's no reason why the city can't continue with their permitting processes, but that doesn't seem to be very fair to the public 55 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:27,740 And I think to the people that are seeking those applications. I assume that the applicants are paying fees to submit their drawings and whatnot in the year for and therefore 56 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:33,240 But if I was doing this I wouldn't want to continue doing that if I wasn't known 57 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:39,680 going to be a race to get to license. I don't think that's very fair. Once again we have these 58 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:45,860 two competing businesses, prepares marijuana shops that don't meet the city ordinances that are 59 00:05:45,860 --> 00:05:52,200 in my neighborhood. To this day there's been no public notices posted. I have not received a letter 60 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,220 in the mail. There's nothing about a neighborhood meeting. Is it the intention of the city to wait 61 00:05:57,220 --> 00:06:03,600 tell one of these places gets their license and then have a meeting about the location. 62 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:08,580 I don't quite understand what the process is. Once again, there's a serious disconnection 63 00:06:08,580 --> 00:06:16,460 going on. Another problem is this kind of care upon their update on June 25th, two days 64 00:06:16,460 --> 00:06:21,660 before their competitor. That's 100 yards away. They've listed their address at the corner 65 00:06:21,660 --> 00:06:27,120 of Eisenhower and North Wilson. That's not really an address. That's just a general 66 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:44,320 location. That area is actually the parking lot for Jack Sir plus. Now I've talked to the owner of Jack Sir plus and he was not aware that this business was going to apply for a mirror law one a license either. So once again, this disconnect continues and continues to be a problem. Thank you. 67 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:51,960 Thank you Mr. Barrett. Mr. Bliss would you like to address that or wait till your update. 68 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,160 Madam Chair, members of the Planning Commission, I'm happy to do whatever you would like me to. 69 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,060 If you'd like to respond now, I can certainly do so. 70 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,680 Yes, I think so, please. 71 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:04,160 OK. 72 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,160 Thank you. 73 00:07:06,140 --> 00:07:06,660 Yes. 74 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:09,040 Well, in regards to Mr. Barrett's comments, 75 00:07:11,060 --> 00:07:17,200 first I'll say that the license process in order to obtain a license. 76 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:24,480 There are certain criteria that have to be met before you can go before the authority in which to seek that license. 77 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,280 Once one is, you must present to them basically your zoning approval and that. 78 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:56,980 That is what we're considering an adaptable use application. So even though we do have various marijuana retail users that are within a mild distance, a part of one another, vying for a particular position, we do remind them when they do come through the door and are paying their application fees and things like that. 79 00:07:56,980 --> 00:08:02,320 there, that there are other applicants that are seeking that same approval. 80 00:08:03,460 --> 00:08:10,640 We are not regulating how they schedule or get before the authority to determine whether 81 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,240 or not they get awarded a license. 82 00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:18,640 We are simply processing their adaptable use application, making them aware of the fact that 83 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:24,320 all the fees that you're paying for this, maybe for not, because you may not end up getting 84 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:24,840 a license. 85 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:32,600 that's really the point of it. If we do have a marijuana business that is been licensed, 86 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:39,540 they've gotten their approval from the authority, and we are processing an adaptable use that is 87 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:47,520 less than a mile away, and the applicant wishes to continue to proceed. They are alerted to the fact 88 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:54,080 that we will not be able to recommend approval of their application. And so they would have the 89 00:08:54,080 --> 00:09:00,340 opportunity to take their chances through an appeal or simply just with draw their application. 90 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:16,780 But we are, you know, like I said, treating everyone the same and we do anticipate that there will be a number of marijuana retailers that unfortunately will not be able to secure a license because they are competing within that one mile distance from one another. 91 00:09:19,870 --> 00:09:25,230 Thank you and we're actually going to move on to current planning updates with Troy Bliss. 92 00:09:25,370 --> 00:09:26,050 Oh. 93 00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:28,950 I'm sorry. 94 00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:29,950 Oh, I'm sorry. 95 00:09:30,630 --> 00:09:31,470 Oh, please come up, Cindy. 96 00:09:31,670 --> 00:09:32,990 I'm sorry. 97 00:09:36,060 --> 00:09:36,740 Violet. 98 00:09:37,380 --> 00:09:39,280 Cindy Van Slamberg, Levelin. 99 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:50,000 I wanted to speak to on Wednesday, city council approved on first reading a sweeping set of amendments 100 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:59,600 to the UDC. Among the changes were ones that you had already approved and most of them had to 101 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:08,660 do with changing some of the rules for the Prop 1-2-3 initiative or the rules so Prop 1-2-3 102 00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:20,140 work. I agree with most of them. Within there was a major change to zone uses in the UDC. 103 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:30,960 It was only mentioned on one slide and it was presented as multiplexes and town homes require 104 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:37,640 a neighborhood meeting. Previous to that right now because it hasn't been approved yet on 105 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,640 second reading, right now in the R1 neighborhoods, 106 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,080 multiplexes are not allowed at all. 107 00:10:46,140 --> 00:10:49,560 They, previous, right now, what you have to do to get a multiplex 108 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,540 in R1 is you have to apply for zoning application, 109 00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:56,720 used to cost a thousand, five hundred, I haven't checked 110 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,460 lightly, you have to have a neighborhood meeting, 111 00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:03,020 you have to go through planning commission, 112 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,720 and then you usually have to go through 113 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,100 to see the council meetings, to get that amendment. 114 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,400 Now it's just a neighborhood meeting. 115 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:18,260 It was easy to overlook, but I saw it, and I brought up 116 00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:21,760 that that major change, land use change, 117 00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:25,740 should not have been done without major outreach 118 00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:26,700 to the public. 119 00:11:27,140 --> 00:11:29,360 On slide five of that presentation, 120 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:31,840 that PowerPoint presentation that Carrie, 121 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:38,760 and Mr. Paulson gave, there were seven bullets on all the outreach that you guys did. 122 00:11:38,940 --> 00:11:43,980 It was amazing. I agree. I'm so glad that Aspen Holmes and Mission Holmes were in there. 123 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,940 We do need more housing. My neighborhood has great examples. 124 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,520 We would like to show it to you. 125 00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:55,900 But there was one of those bullets, one that said a neighborhood chat. 126 00:11:55,900 --> 00:12:02,780 nowhere in the attachments, or Mrs. Pershet, and Mr. Paulson could say, 127 00:12:03,020 --> 00:12:07,940 what were the details of that public chat? That was very vague. 128 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:17,440 We are asking for the neighborhood to be involved before major land uses are brought forward 129 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:23,400 and you know put upon us as single family homeowners. 130 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,040 So that's my request. 131 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:32,340 We requested that you pull that part out and go forward City Council with the rest of it. 132 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:33,220 Let us talk. 133 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,240 Let us show you what our good examples are in our neighborhood and our bad examples. 134 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:39,760 Listen to us. 135 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:41,200 We'd like to give input. 136 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:42,640 We'd like our opinions. 137 00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:43,500 Listen to. 138 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:44,460 Thank you. 139 00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:46,220 Thank you, Cindy. 140 00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:49,240 And Bob may address this here in a little bit. 141 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:51,240 Thank you. 142 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,000 Tammy has something she'd like to say. 143 00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:57,460 I just want to follow up with Mr. Barrett, 144 00:12:58,060 --> 00:12:59,960 because the last time you were here, 145 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,860 I think there was some miscommunication, 146 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:03,860 because you were going to give some information 147 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,380 to Lisa Rye, 148 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:08,740 and then I think she didn't have your contact. 149 00:13:09,140 --> 00:13:11,380 So I would just ask that you before you leave 150 00:13:11,380 --> 00:13:12,740 if you would give her that. 151 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:14,340 I would appreciate that. 152 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:21,750 Mr. Barrett, you did, 153 00:13:22,090 --> 00:13:23,530 and that was misplaced. 154 00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:26,110 Yes, I do, please. 155 00:13:26,110 --> 00:13:33,670 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else in chambers? Anyone online? 156 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,620 Nobody online. Thank you. 157 00:13:40,060 --> 00:13:42,820 We're going to move on to current planning updates with Troy Bliss. 158 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:51,260 Madam Chair, members of the Planning Commission, just a few quick things to make mention of tonight. 159 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,480 We have a couple items that are scheduled for our next meeting, which would be held on September 14. 160 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:07,940 One is just an informational item that will be a presentation from our water and a power group on a 161 00:14:07,940 --> 00:14:16,520 development that has been working its way through the Larimer County channels if you will. 162 00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:20,280 There are board of county commissioners. 163 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:28,240 I believe just recently held a public hearing on that about a month ago, so our group will 164 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,800 be sharing their involvement in that particular project and kind of the status of that. 165 00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:42,060 We also will have a public hearing item that concerns the annexation agreement amendment for 166 00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:51,840 property this located down south along Highway 287. And then as far as an update to our planning 167 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:59,760 commission openings, the two openings that we have right now, we are working to arrange interviews. 168 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:07,700 With our candidates next Monday. So Lisa and I will be reaching out to them to make sure that that time is available. 169 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:18,200 Madam Chair and Councillor Fram, thank you for your input on your availability. So we will be circling back with you on that. You're shortly. Wonderful. 170 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,800 And that's all I have for you this evening. 171 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,080 Thank you, Troy. City attorney's office in the updates. 172 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:26,180 Nothing for me this evening. 173 00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:28,100 nothing from you. 174 00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:31,820 I'm goals and progress report is soon. 175 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:34,020 There's not much, okay? 176 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,560 We're going to move on to Commissioner Comments. 177 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,840 Does any Commissioner have anything to share? 178 00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:45,080 Commissioner Fisher. 179 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:45,700 Yes. 180 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,360 I just wanted to address what Ms. Van Slambroke was speaking about, 181 00:15:51,460 --> 00:15:55,680 because I did hear that at the city council meeting. 182 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,600 So we hear you and thank you for speaking up. 183 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,160 Thank you. 184 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:08,360 We are going to move on to approval of the minutes, but we don't have any minutes to approve. 185 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:14,520 The August 10th Planning Commission minutes will be provided with a September 14th meeting agenda packet. 186 00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:17,100 And we'll be considered for approval at that meeting. 187 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,560 We're going to move on to our regular agenda. 188 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:26,640 And we are ready for an update from Councillor FOM, who is our liaison from City Council. 189 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:28,040 Council. 190 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:35,960 I'm coming up practice. 191 00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:37,520 Even the mic like you're ready. 192 00:16:38,140 --> 00:16:39,360 It's told, too. 193 00:16:40,020 --> 00:16:44,260 The first thing I'll say for the record is if you want me to come here and be able to speak 194 00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:48,420 intelligently about items, you can't put Cindy right in front of me because she took 195 00:16:48,420 --> 00:16:50,560 half of what I was going to say. 196 00:16:52,580 --> 00:17:00,800 So, if you update, I think right now in the city, moving forward, our kind of next, you 197 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,760 you want to call it, you know, our home, our next big thing is data centers. 198 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,820 And so on September 1st, we're going to have, we're transitioning from the city council 199 00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:17,180 from the, the old rule of four, mentality where we're working to work a lot of those issues 200 00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:20,500 into work sessions, study sessions. 201 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:26,460 And so on September 1st we'll have that, it'll be right here in the chambers, won't 202 00:17:26,460 --> 00:17:32,400 Council of the Dias, so it'll be a big kind of square meeting room down here, so normally 203 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,840 a work session won't have public comment. However, this first one, data centers being 204 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,320 art are subject to being so heavy, we will have public comment at the beginning of that one. 205 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:48,520 So something that too, for the city to, in the public to get used to this new process, 206 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:52,560 but also don't get too used to it because we're not going to always have public comment 207 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,480 Okay. 208 00:17:55,820 --> 00:18:02,860 As Ms. Ben Sumbert said, the UDC came up this week and I think 95% of that was well 209 00:18:02,860 --> 00:18:08,040 received and moving forward for a lot of different objectives that a lot of groups are trying 210 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:14,820 to put forth and improve the planning and building process. But I think it was also well received 211 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:21,360 that the R1 designation needs some definitions for sure. Multiplex being more clearly defined 212 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:26,360 being one of them and then and then exactly what the teeth of that tattoo that 213 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:31,060 neighborhood meeting is being another I think there does maybe some protection 214 00:18:31,060 --> 00:18:38,060 therefore the desire to have less density mixed with frankly the need to have 215 00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:42,520 some more density but we need to protect the rights of of all homeowners there so 216 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:48,600 I think I look forward to second rating on that because on first reading it was 217 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:54,600 to one, but unless we see some changes, I don't see that being the same second time around. 218 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:57,960 Data centers, 219 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,800 by and large, that's kind of what's going on right now with City Council, 220 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,940 with our change with work sessions, with focus on data centers, and I encourage everybody 221 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:14,460 to come on September 1st if you're available or interested in, you know, that conversation. 222 00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:19,360 Data center is going to take, it's not going to be done on the first, I think it looks like we're 223 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:26,320 three meetings over just that subject. So it's something that I think is being taken very seriously 224 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:31,420 because there is a lot of concern, but there's a lot of just unknown and unanswered potential 225 00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:38,340 there too. So we'll have to see what the experts say. Without any questions you have, I'm here. 226 00:19:39,020 --> 00:19:43,860 Wonderful. Thank you, Councillor. And I just want to really thank you for taking a look at the R1 issue 227 00:19:43,860 --> 00:19:49,980 before second reading, it's something that should be considered seriously. Does anyone have 228 00:19:49,980 --> 00:19:51,240 any questions or comments? 229 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,300 Oh, Commissioner Dewey. 230 00:19:54,280 --> 00:20:00,040 Thank you, Councillor Promo. Thanks for coming tonight. I was just curious. You feel like they're 231 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,620 time on the planning commission prepared you for these difficult issues of city council. 232 00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:06,460 Sounds like you're running in the future. I would love that. 233 00:20:08,060 --> 00:20:31,740 Absolutely, I mean, it's the same process, I mean, the packet's a little thicker, and the focus is a little more direct button counsel, but you guys are doing, you're doing most of the work that I do, so we appreciate you for sure, and definitely take your recommendation seriously when planning issues move forward to counsel, so thank you for that. 234 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:39,970 Commissioner Fisher. Thank you, Jeff. I'm just wondering when or if a decision has been made on when the 235 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:50,770 City charter committee am I saying that correctly is going to open up. Yeah, thanks for that. There's there's actually that was a bolt that I 236 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:55,380 Completely spaced over there are kind of three we've got the city charter committee 237 00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:58,640 We have the ad hoc homeless committee and now we have 238 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:04,800 Moving forward, it hasn't hit second reading up, but we have moved forward the see-fact, the 239 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:12,840 financial committee is putting a team together that'll be four see-fact members, five community 240 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:19,580 at large members to kind of look at our budget, our spending, our ability to bring in revenue 241 00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:28,620 and not coming from staff or council down, but from the city suggestions for how we can address 242 00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:31,360 the needs of lovelin and the wants and desires. 243 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,980 So they're really kind of three going, the homelessness task force or the ad hoc homelessness, 244 00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:43,960 community that they have in the meeting, apparently that it sounds from my PCad meeting, 245 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:51,460 it sounds like they are making some progress and being fruitful there, but then we have the 246 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:56,900 search goes on right now for to seat the charter committee and then now the C-FAC one. 247 00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:03,240 So, yes, those are our priorities right now before to see how those materialize. 248 00:22:03,460 --> 00:22:04,200 Both are important. 249 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,260 Thank you. 250 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:07,660 Has there a date? 251 00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:08,320 For those? 252 00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:09,060 I just... 253 00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:09,200 I just... 254 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,680 Not that I know, but I'll reach out and I'll... 255 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:11,920 Thanks. 256 00:22:12,220 --> 00:22:12,780 Any mail on that. 257 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:13,780 Okay. 258 00:22:15,980 --> 00:22:16,340 Great. 259 00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:19,660 Any other questions or comments for... 260 00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:20,080 Mr. Frum? 261 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:21,640 Thank you for being here. 262 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:22,420 We made it. 263 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:23,320 We made it on. 264 00:22:23,380 --> 00:22:24,320 Thank you. 265 00:22:25,620 --> 00:22:28,200 We are going to move along to review of the housing 266 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,960 policies and initiatives as 267 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,860 In relation to the upcoming comprehensive plan update. Mr. Bob Pelson. 268 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:55,100 Thank you very much Madam Chair and Commissioner Sitz. It's a pleasure to be here. I missed coming to the planning commission. 269 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:58,000 Did that for quite a while. 270 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,160 That anyways, good to see all of you. 271 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:10,160 I'm going to add on to Councillor Fram's comments about the data center situation. 272 00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:26,520 I'm one of the people involved along with our acting deputy city manager, Julia Holland, as well as our director of utilities, giving presentations on that evening. 273 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:32,240 And I'm going to be, you know, this is in a very early stage of looking at data centers, right? 274 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:40,820 If you're looking at social media, the mass media, you're hearing lots and lots about data centers, right? 275 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:47,660 I would say city staff that includes me, we are not experts at this point. 276 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:55,540 We have a lot of information, we've been studying what other communities are doing, good and bad. 277 00:23:55,540 --> 00:24:22,240 Our purpose on the first of September is to introduce where we're at currently, the information we have very briefly, indicate as Council from indicated that there's likely to be three study sessions in total relative to this topic, so the community is going to have a lot of opportunity to speak to this, particularly on the first of September. 278 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,780 But also, there's going to be information developed over time. 279 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:31,480 It looks like there could likely be a six-month moratorium, 280 00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:36,860 and we'll move forward with the idea that we want to have some type of solution, 281 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,280 potentially, by that time. 282 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,900 So, again, as Councilor Fram has urged you, 283 00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:48,980 I'd be great if the Planning Commission members can at least watch that 284 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:59,560 First study session and one of the things that I really want to emphasize to all of you is that you're going to have opportunity to weigh in on this matter as well 285 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:13,840 So after this first study session we will be going back and I will be going back with the economic development office in October latter part of October to give an update relative to the zoning related issues 286 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:36,800 I'm hoping that we can find a slot and I'm going to look at Mr. Bliss on the schedule for the planning commission in the intervening month and a half to come back to the commission and hear from the commission as well as the public that comes to attend the commission meetings about the zoning component of state. 287 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:43,140 You'll hear from me on the first of September, is that our code does address data centers. 288 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,040 But it doesn't address them as we have come to know them today, particularly the hypersanners, 289 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:59,580 the very large centers, our code when it was developed and adopted did not contemplate these large facilities. 290 00:25:59,580 --> 00:26:08,780 And did not contemplate the impacts that are possible by virtue of water use, electrical use, and so forth. 291 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,980 So we're going to look to you to help us with that. 292 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:16,700 And I'm hoping by the time I come back to see you. 293 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:25,600 We'll have some preliminary zoning at least concepts to share and see if the commission would like to weigh in on that. 294 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,460 So I just wanted to assure you that you'll have that chance. 295 00:26:29,980 --> 00:26:31,840 I'm looking forward to it. 296 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:38,340 And this is going to be a bit of a journey with the city to deal with the data center. 297 00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:39,600 Issues very important. 298 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:41,760 We understand that. 299 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,320 And there's a good deal of staff work occurring as we speak. 300 00:26:48,550 --> 00:26:53,210 So that concludes my final topic of the evening data centers. 301 00:26:54,590 --> 00:27:04,210 But one of the things that I've done this evening, and you have a long, you know, and I'm not going to walk through that entire memo. 302 00:27:04,670 --> 00:27:21,370 You'll shaking your heads, yes. I understand that. But what I wanted to do is give you a context for the work that we've done, the policies that we've been directed by, and the efforts that have been going on relative to housing. 303 00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:26,710 I want to make sure that you understand that we're not talking simply about affordable housing. 304 00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:35,070 When I'm going to use that term affordable housing here, it's really deed restricted housing. 305 00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:44,730 What is subsidized by the City, Ellison Hayes Office, Community Partnership, works on that with affordable housing commission. 306 00:27:45,790 --> 00:27:49,110 The bigger issue is housing more generally. 307 00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:55,810 And the issue is, and everyone understands that in this room, I'm certain, is the cost of housing. 308 00:27:57,430 --> 00:28:04,950 And particularly since the COVID era, but certainly since the city approved the comprehensive plan back in 2016, 309 00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:14,990 the issue of housing affordability has become exceedingly worse for people on the margins, 310 00:28:14,990 --> 00:28:18,970 meaning the cost of housing has gone up in this community dramatically. 311 00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:24,870 There hasn't been a reciprocal increase in median family income, for example. 312 00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:30,030 Our department, as you can see by virtue of this memorandum, 313 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:33,630 has been concerned with this quite for quite some time, 314 00:28:33,770 --> 00:28:39,750 as have other city offices, as have had a number of private sector, 315 00:28:39,930 --> 00:28:42,010 nonprofit groups, and so forth. 316 00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:45,190 There's been a lot of work, a lot of study. 317 00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:47,930 I know some of it's been a little bit controversial. 318 00:28:49,530 --> 00:28:53,250 We don't have to go into that unless you have questions about it. 319 00:28:53,410 --> 00:28:56,770 But I think the bulk of the information is very similar. 320 00:28:57,250 --> 00:29:03,850 Like I've said, the cost of housing has gone up quite quickly in loveland and across the front range. 321 00:29:04,350 --> 00:29:10,910 And in many communities around the country and most notably Colorado and most notably the front range of Colorado. 322 00:29:10,910 --> 00:29:16,690 So we are working as we have been over time to try and address this. 323 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:23,150 The topic that was brought up by Ms. Fan Slambroke this evening relates to that. 324 00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:29,810 There has been a series of amendments that have come forward to the Planning Commission that 325 00:29:29,810 --> 00:29:36,530 have amended our housing code and our practices and processes relative to housing. 326 00:29:36,530 --> 00:29:41,070 I wanted you to see how that all kind of fits together. 327 00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:46,870 And if you have questions when I'm done and I don't have a slide presentation clearly, 328 00:29:47,390 --> 00:29:49,850 and I'm not going to, like I said, walk through all this, 329 00:29:50,370 --> 00:29:54,610 but I wanted you to see the work and the body of work that's been occurring. 330 00:29:55,290 --> 00:29:59,050 And then I want to connect it, which I will try and do at the moment. 331 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:21,200 Members to the Comprehensive Plan. And we are looking to take this information and take studies that are still forthcoming and incorporate them into the Comprehensive Plan. We have a budget request that Councillor Fram will be looking at here shortly for the Comprehensive Plan funding. 332 00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:31,080 We are at the precipice essentially of that comprehensive plan that was adopted in 2016, becoming outdated, right? 333 00:30:32,740 --> 00:30:42,120 And for most of you, you haven't been on the commission long enough to have gone through the process that we went through in 2014-15 and eventually 16. 334 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,600 A lot of work was put into the comprehensive plan, but the situation in Loveland and elsewhere was very different. 335 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:55,920 And so typically comprehensive plans and it's a pretty strong guideline across the country 336 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,780 that comprehensive plans are reviewed and updated significantly updated every 10 years. 337 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,760 We're at the point we're kind of behind the curve right now 338 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:11,320 and I would say we're particularly behind the curve because things have changed so much 339 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,120 not simply because of housing and the cost of housing 340 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:24,240 But a number of things in the community, the cost of construction has gone up, the cost of utility installation has gone up, so on and so forth. 341 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,520 And, you know, the city's budgetary situation has changed during that time, probably several times over. 342 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:39,780 So it's not an easy thing to pay for a comprehensive plan and spend 18 to 24 months getting one done. 343 00:31:39,780 --> 00:31:47,880 But I'm certainly of the opinion that it needs to be done and I think we really need to look at it not only from a housing lens, but more broadly. 344 00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:56,840 So, I'm not going to go on a lot more regarding the memo, but you have it in your background. 345 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,000 What I want to make sure that you understand is the work that we're doing is connected. 346 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:12,040 It's, we're looking ahead, we're trying to take these steps moving forward, and that's particularly in the case of housing. 347 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:15,380 We're working with other departments on housing. 348 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,780 We're looking, you know, and you've heard about some of this, whether it be the small lot standards that you may have heard about. 349 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,180 Public works took the lead on that, now we're getting a little more involved. 350 00:32:25,180 --> 00:32:35,220 Scalable fees from the utilities department, we think that was a really good step, they're in the process of amending that, taking another look at it. 351 00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:39,160 There's been concerns from the development community about that. 352 00:32:39,340 --> 00:32:41,280 They're taking a look with the LUC. 353 00:32:41,980 --> 00:32:49,460 I think that they most recently, just a few days ago, went to the LUC and got a Thai vote on the proposed adjustments. 354 00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:51,100 They'll be going back. 355 00:32:52,180 --> 00:32:58,580 So, many of these things fit together, and I just, again, didn't want you to think that, 356 00:32:58,580 --> 00:33:03,080 you know, hearing from Cariber Shad and some of other staff members, you have the somewhat 357 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,760 random code amendments coming forward and so forth. 358 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:13,460 They've been designed to come forward in separate packages, but with a total purpose. 359 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:19,940 And I think, in many cases, the state legislature has mandated this, so we're responding 360 00:33:19,940 --> 00:33:24,920 rather than going proactive with some of our efforts, but they are fitting together and 361 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,960 there's various groups in the community and beyond just lovelin that are taking a look 362 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,880 at these issues. And I hope that many of our code amendments are in alignment. I know you've 363 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:41,460 heard from Mrs. Lamberk this evening that she's concerned and we're going to take and I'll tell 364 00:33:41,460 --> 00:33:48,600 you now. We're going to take another look, particularly at the multiplex. And I'm hoping, as I 365 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,060 mentioned to you at the beginning or before we started Madam Chair that I'd really like 366 00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:59,600 to plan a commission involved in this effort as a place to have a forum for the community 367 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,140 about those standards as proposed. We're not trying to be sneaky. We never were, I think, 368 00:34:05,380 --> 00:34:10,840 we focused on the development community and several city boards and commissions. We probably 369 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:16,100 overlooked reaching out directly to the overall public. So we'd still like to do that before 370 00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:26,560 second reading. I believe that the mayor feels the same way and is asked us to do this. 371 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:31,760 I think several other city counselors who were basically in favor of the amendments in that 372 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:41,640 package with maybe one or two reservations. So does anyone have any questions about the 373 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:48,640 that I provided, anything that we're doing, anything you don't understand, anything I might have left out. 374 00:34:50,910 --> 00:34:55,750 Well, I would just like to comment, thank you so much for responding to the issue with the R1. 375 00:34:56,110 --> 00:35:00,050 It is a big deal, I feel like, for citizens that live in R1. 376 00:35:00,470 --> 00:35:05,070 And so, before second reading, if there could be some community outreach, that would be awesome. 377 00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:09,630 And we did discuss before the meeting. It sounds like you're taking, you know, it's seriously 378 00:35:09,630 --> 00:35:11,630 and thinking about what can be done. 379 00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:13,310 Certainly, thank you. 380 00:35:13,470 --> 00:35:17,470 But I do want to explain, and maybe this will help you. 381 00:35:17,830 --> 00:35:20,010 And Troy knows this process better than I do. 382 00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:22,770 And I'm going to ask Troy well we're sitting here. 383 00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:28,670 Tell confirm to me, this may have to look into the code, 384 00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:31,430 but how many units are possible through a multiplex. 385 00:35:32,170 --> 00:35:34,750 A multiplex, just tell you very quickly, 386 00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:40,030 is a multi-family, small, multi-family apartment complex 387 00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:42,450 that's designed to look like a house. 388 00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:44,130 It's bigger than a house. 389 00:35:44,130 --> 00:35:47,110 I think there's up to five units that may be possible 390 00:35:47,110 --> 00:35:50,550 within a multi-plex, maybe four more standardly. 391 00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:54,610 But it is multi-family and the way the code 392 00:35:54,610 --> 00:35:58,190 amendment was structured, and it was presented 393 00:35:58,190 --> 00:36:00,090 to City Council and the Planning Commission, 394 00:36:00,790 --> 00:36:04,330 is to allow the multi-plex with the neighborhood meeting 395 00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:12,570 As an adaptable use, Troy had talked to you about the adaptable use process that's used in the marijuana dispensary process. 396 00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:17,250 That's a meeting that is scheduled that's notified and so forth. 397 00:36:18,350 --> 00:36:22,270 And the applicant is there as well as staff. 398 00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:30,790 A decision is made administratively, and that would be my decision after speaking with staff as director of the department. 399 00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:38,050 But if there's an appeal from either an applicant or someone in the neighborhood that was noticed, 400 00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:40,330 that would come to the planning commission. 401 00:36:41,290 --> 00:36:47,110 So there is a process for this, but I just wanted to let you know how that worked. 402 00:36:47,730 --> 00:36:53,990 But again, like I said, we're looking at multiplex as something that maybe should be reconsidered 403 00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:58,390 and maybe we'll hear from the community a little bit more before making a decision. 404 00:36:58,390 --> 00:37:03,390 But we understand the concern and we don't want to ignore it. 405 00:37:04,990 --> 00:37:05,110 Okay. 406 00:37:05,310 --> 00:37:06,470 Thank you very much. 407 00:37:06,610 --> 00:37:07,070 You're welcome. 408 00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:07,850 Yes. 409 00:37:08,290 --> 00:37:11,610 I'd like to be mindful of Commissioner Herrera, who was online. 410 00:37:13,310 --> 00:37:13,650 Anything? 411 00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:18,220 Try your head your life on. 412 00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:22,920 Well, I was just following direction from Mr. Paul. 413 00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:24,300 Yes. 414 00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:29,960 Yes, in the unified development code, basically the number of units is 415 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:42,360 We're predicated on the amount of square footage you would have for a lot. So, for example, if you had a 8,000 square foot lot, you could potentially have three units in that multiplex building. 416 00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:58,720 If you had a 10,000 square foot lot, you could potentially have up to four units, and then at 12,000 square foot lot, you're capped at five units there. So, that's kind of the distinctions between how many units you could potentially have. 417 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:05,200 multi-plex and what the lot-sized standards would dictate. The other component associated with 418 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,520 the multiplex is that it's meant to be designed and looked like a large single-fast home. 419 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,340 Great, thank you. Commissioner Fisher, you're in your light on. 420 00:38:15,740 --> 00:38:20,180 Yeah, I just wanted to thank you, Mr. Paulson. I just, I brought this up numerous times. 421 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,660 My concerns about the housing needs assessment and the methodology behind it. And I've asked several 422 00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:33,660 times how many respondents were in that study and no one's been able to answer that. 423 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,240 And thank you, Commissioner. 424 00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:38,760 I can't answer that. 425 00:38:38,860 --> 00:38:48,220 I know that there was a non-scientific survey that was part of that effort so that that was 426 00:38:48,860 --> 00:38:54,740 not, I mean, I'm not saying the whole thing that we really have looked at the data that came 427 00:38:54,740 --> 00:38:58,740 from that, especially with looking at the analysis 428 00:38:58,740 --> 00:39:00,120 and data that was collected. 429 00:39:00,620 --> 00:39:02,660 But we understand that a lot of criticism 430 00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:08,160 has come from a effort to gather individual responses 431 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,780 and so forth to it. 432 00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,860 And what we are doing just so you understand 433 00:39:12,860 --> 00:39:15,680 is our department's going to be taking that out 434 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,300 for an RFP for the housing action plan. 435 00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:30,260 So, the entity that did the housing assessment won't necessarily be the company that does the action plan. 436 00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:39,000 And we know that there was some concerns there and I can't say what the outcome of that RFP will be, but we're certainly sensitive to that issue. 437 00:39:39,420 --> 00:39:47,220 And we want to have good data. You know, if it's really narrow data, that's not something that we want to rely on. 438 00:39:47,220 --> 00:40:16,600 It's good to hear from the public, it's good to hear broad sources, you know, in one of the points of data that we really rely on in much of, and I've explained this, not only about the assessment, but also about the citizen survey that was taken a portion of that citizen survey that was taken I think in 2024 was scientifically completed and a certain number of people responded to that scientific survey and housing was a pretty significant issue. 439 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:23,920 And when you look at the comments from people from that original survey, the term affordability 440 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:24,420 is used. 441 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,580 And I think a lot of times we think, oh, it must be affordable housing. 442 00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:34,020 No, I think it's really about having housing that is affordable for people in the community. 443 00:40:34,780 --> 00:40:41,660 And if you also look at that survey from 2024, it has individual responses, but there must 444 00:40:41,660 --> 00:40:50,600 have been probably a couple of hundred people responding just what concerns you about the community 445 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,700 going beyond just the scientific aspect of that survey and housing was a major factor. 446 00:40:56,860 --> 00:40:59,340 And people were concerned about housing affordability. 447 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:06,160 And so that's part of what I mentioned in this memo is that while that a lot of that information 448 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,340 and also wasn't scientific, we had a very strong response 449 00:41:10,340 --> 00:41:12,440 about affordability in that survey. 450 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,440 So, and there's been a lot of other work, EPS has done surveys 451 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,240 for the city, there's been other communities 452 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:24,660 that have done regional and other surveys. 453 00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:28,200 And a lot of those results are telling us the same thing. 454 00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:32,500 As I've mentioned, at the beginning of my discussion, 455 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:39,540 there is a growing gap between affordability and income in the community and that's what 456 00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:45,380 we're concerned with, we're not concerned simply with what's affordable but affordable 457 00:41:45,380 --> 00:41:51,620 to people in the development community and I'm going on a bit here and I understand that 458 00:41:51,620 --> 00:41:57,900 but the development community has a fairly good ability to provide what I would say 459 00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:02,880 pretty standard homes on standard lots, meaning five, six, 460 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,060 seven thousand square foot lots with homes, 461 00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:10,280 2,500, 3,000, 3,500 square feet. 462 00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:13,680 Our standards work really well for that. 463 00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:15,740 There's usually not a lot of friction 464 00:42:15,740 --> 00:42:18,280 in terms of the supply of that. 465 00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:21,880 What is harder for the development community 466 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,540 to produce, especially in loveland, 467 00:42:24,540 --> 00:42:29,900 is those smaller, lot cottages, duplexes, townhouses. 468 00:42:30,540 --> 00:42:35,340 There's more friction that occurs especially with utilities. 469 00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:38,860 Trying to fit them into tighter and tighter spaces. 470 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:46,840 We've done what I think is a pretty good job from a planning and zoning perspective to address that situation. 471 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:56,000 And now we need the reciprocal effort from utilities and others to help make sure that we 472 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,580 can, you know, we believe we can supply it. 473 00:42:59,580 --> 00:43:02,180 Communities all around the front range have done it. 474 00:43:02,980 --> 00:43:09,060 We just have to further adjust our standards and some of that has to be done by other departments. 475 00:43:09,620 --> 00:43:11,160 And they're working on it. 476 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:19,180 But it's a long answer to your question, and maybe if I didn't answer it to your satisfaction, let me know. 477 00:43:19,820 --> 00:43:24,320 Thank you. I also asked Carrie Bush at that question, but she didn't have the answer either. 478 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:32,280 So I'm just very curious why we're using that before the city manager left. 479 00:43:32,460 --> 00:43:37,140 There was a lot of concern about this study and the work that Framework did. 480 00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:40,880 And I was told that they were going to have a new consultant. 481 00:43:42,820 --> 00:43:46,080 And framework didn't do this, the housing assessment. 482 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,460 It's root policy did that. 483 00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:57,420 And that study was submitted to the State, the Department of Local Affairs, and accepted. 484 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,380 And they met all their requirements that the State had on that. 485 00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:11,880 But like I said, we'll be putting out an RFP and I can't tell you what the outcome will be regarding that. 486 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:19,160 I don't want to do that, we haven't done it yet, but we'll be sensitive in terms of making sure 487 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:27,420 the housing action plan is very lovelin centric. So in that, there's state guidelines on that as well. 488 00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:33,220 And if you look at the memo, you will see that that action plan will 489 00:44:33,220 --> 00:44:36,160 dovetail into the comprehensive plan. 490 00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:42,980 So we're going to be putting a number of pieces, kind of working on those pieces, 491 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:49,440 and having them fit into what I'm hoping we get funding for is the comprehensive plan. 492 00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:53,480 The comprehensive plan is going to look well beyond housing, like I said, we're going 493 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:59,680 be looking at utility streets, so on and so forth, to make sure that the community is ready 494 00:44:59,680 --> 00:44:59,980 for the... 495 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:21,120 We're expecting. That's the idea, right? And it's done only once every 10 years or thereabouts in our case, making sure that we have a very broad understanding of the community of our geography, our assets and resources to make sure that we can go forward with the growth model that we're proposing. 496 00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:28,900 Okay. Thank you. That's important. And that was really important to me when this was brought up as a study of Lairmer County. 497 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:35,200 Because the numbers that they were giving back in April are very different from what I have as a realtor. 498 00:45:35,420 --> 00:45:43,320 What I have access to and what have sold in loveland and when they were using these big numbers that it was not accurate for loveland. 499 00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:45,080 So thank you. I appreciate it. Sure. 500 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:53,780 I certainly understand it was a regional study that was cooperation with the county, with the city of Fort Collins, and yes, you're correct. 501 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,020 Some of that is a regional information. 502 00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:02,960 We are certainly sensitive to that more sensitive now than we might have been before. 503 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:09,140 There was concern, and we will make sure that the housing action plan is very lovely, Sandra. 504 00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:11,980 Great, I'm sure, do we? 505 00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:20,040 Thank you. I'm Mr. Paulson, I think you did a great job of kind of giving us the context that there's a lot going on. 506 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:26,640 Also, suppressing the expectation for the comprehensive master plan update, which is going to be quite a heavy lift. 507 00:46:26,780 --> 00:46:31,560 It looks like you mentioned that there were some other things that had happened to be sides of affordability. 508 00:46:32,620 --> 00:46:41,120 In my mind, one of the things that seems to have changed a lot more is there's more direction from the state through different legislation. 509 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:51,100 legislation that's been passed and it looks like, especially the legislation from Senate Bill 24 174, I think you referred to the housing action plan. 510 00:46:51,260 --> 00:46:56,120 There's also the water element, the future land use element. So those three things are going on as well. 511 00:46:57,780 --> 00:47:10,440 And then I wondered if you've talked about that a little bit, I wonder if you could elaborate a little more on that and then also the third thing I've seen is this accessory dwelling unit and there's the tool book that's going to be developed. 512 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:28,340 I'll start with your last reference in the Toolbook and that went to the City Council and it was fulfilling a grant application and they did vote in favor of it and they had voted previously and I think it was the spring of this year. 513 00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:33,560 I can't remember if it was in May or June but they agreed to the city's match. 514 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:41,420 And the state has gotten very involved in local land use matters. 515 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,680 You probably all have opinions about that. 516 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,580 I would share mine, but they're irrelevant. 517 00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:48,340 We're responding to them. 518 00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:53,800 But the toolbook, what we're finding in our office, 519 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,660 and Troy knows more about this than I do, 520 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,880 but our office conducts consult discussions with anyone 521 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:08,760 that is interested in wants to come and talk to us about building an ADU and we have seen 522 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:15,700 so much confusion about that and so much lack of anticipation about the complexity of that 523 00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:22,760 process during those consultations. Now they can go directly after a consultation to the building 524 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:28,040 permit side of things. They don't have to come back to planning. We look at it, make sure that 525 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:35,200 their setbacks are okay and things like that, but our main process is really trying to 526 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:41,540 get them ready so that they can actually tackle a project of that magnitude. It seems simple, 527 00:48:41,620 --> 00:48:46,180 and it seems like it shouldn't be that expensive. Well, it's complex and it can be expensive. 528 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:51,900 And if you look at what constitutes a smaller unit, whether a tiny home or an 80-year or something 529 00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:58,520 like that, you take many of the most expensive aspects of a house and fit them into a smaller 530 00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,040 space. 531 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,440 You've got your kitchens, age, back, plumbing, cell-on, and so forth, right, bathrooms, 532 00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:05,900 in a smaller space. 533 00:49:05,980 --> 00:49:08,260 And it's more expensive per square foot. 534 00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:16,000 We're hoping to find some modular options, but back to your question, Commissioner Dewey, 535 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:25,020 We want to have information available and this is something that the Department of Local Affairs from the State is very excited about. 536 00:49:25,460 --> 00:49:39,260 Have a toolbook that helps people pursue an ADU with some confidence and understanding that if they're going to go forward that they can do it. 537 00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:45,840 and to make sure they have that information, they understand it well before they start engaging in it. 538 00:49:46,180 --> 00:49:50,440 And maybe we're going to have a lot of people that say, well, I can't really do it. 539 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:56,060 One of the big factors, I had to this, is certainly the financial aspect, and I don't think 540 00:49:56,060 --> 00:50:03,740 that the financial community landers are really quite ready for that yet. Maybe some are, and we 541 00:50:03,740 --> 00:50:08,980 to find out, which ones might be so we can give people good advice in that regard. 542 00:50:09,460 --> 00:50:14,840 But they will be able to, it will be a book that is available on the internet and 543 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,960 and available, you know, my understanding and hard copy, and we should be able to do updates 544 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,480 to it from time to time, from a staff perspective. 545 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,460 But we will be looking to hire a qualified consultant to do the work. 546 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:39,280 So your other, your more extensive questions were the three components that are part of 174. 547 00:50:40,060 --> 00:50:42,460 And I've identified those in the memo. 548 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:48,580 They're required by the state and they're required by the state to be included in a comprehensive plan. 549 00:50:48,580 --> 00:50:57,200 So we are looking to pursue grants this fall to do those three components. 550 00:50:57,700 --> 00:51:09,400 We're going to rely heavily on the utilities department, particularly the water division, to do they have research that's fairly current on our water resources. 551 00:51:09,580 --> 00:51:17,900 We feel pretty confident about that as they do that the city has been really proactive in securing raw water for the community 552 00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:25,360 for the foreseeable future. It's still a big deal. But we probably won't need to spend much money, 553 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:32,480 we should be able to get help from utilities to do that. But that gives you an understanding of 554 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:38,920 one of the primary resources that are needed to grow the community. Okay. Secondly, the future 555 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:46,360 growth component. That is looking more extensively at the state has provisions for this and we can't 556 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:52,680 ignore them, but they're really wanting us to look very carefully as with other communities 557 00:51:53,100 --> 00:52:01,480 at vacant land, at infill opportunities within the city, trying to reduce what they would 558 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:07,680 consider sprawl and reduce unnecessary or costly utility extensions. 559 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:14,800 And so the idea there, and it goes beyond that, but it is looking at the community's ability 560 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:22,840 resources to fund growth and they're asking the communities that are participating in this 561 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:29,860 to do it wisely, to do it understanding what the resources are and really 562 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:48,500 Trying to take a look at reducing the outward use of development unnecessarily, I suppose you could call it. Does that help? And then the third one is, you're going to have to remind me now. 563 00:52:49,790 --> 00:53:01,390 How's the action plan? Oh yeah, the housing action plan I already talked about that. And I hope, you know, that is going to be another another element that the state has very clear 564 00:53:01,390 --> 00:53:07,510 requirements that we have to meet. It doesn't mean that we can't do more. But we have to 565 00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:12,030 meet their standards and their requirements to do it to fulfill it and get it completed. 566 00:53:13,050 --> 00:53:16,670 And like I said, these three elements will be part of the comprehensive plan if we get the funding 567 00:53:16,670 --> 00:53:22,730 and they may proceed the comprehensive planning effort by a little bit, but then get woven into it. 568 00:53:23,350 --> 00:53:28,610 But that particular thing is housing is really important to understand that. 569 00:53:28,610 --> 00:53:34,490 how we fund it, where we locate it, at what density we locate it, 570 00:53:34,490 --> 00:53:37,590 do we have the infrastructure to go with it, right? 571 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,030 A big part of what we do in London, I'll just say this, 572 00:53:41,070 --> 00:53:42,950 and you probably all understand it, 573 00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:45,770 but growth plays for it, pays for itself, 574 00:53:46,290 --> 00:53:51,810 meaning when development occurs, applicants have to spend the money 575 00:53:51,810 --> 00:53:55,690 to extend the roadways, to extend the utilities, 576 00:53:55,690 --> 00:54:02,850 to expand, extend the storm water provisions, so on and so forth to pay for that growth. 577 00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:11,090 Also, they have to pay system impact fees that goes into the sustainability of the water 578 00:54:11,090 --> 00:54:13,830 and electrical services. 579 00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:21,530 So, and then there's also capital expansion fees that may, they do pay, that can be expensive, 580 00:54:22,350 --> 00:54:29,890 And those fees are paid on them kind of a more, they can be used more generally for growth across the community. 581 00:54:30,050 --> 00:54:38,230 So they may not be tied to a specific project, but they are tied to growth related expenditures in the community over time. 582 00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:43,770 Could be for roadways, parks, police services, on and on and on. 583 00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:52,110 So, in any case, a basic principle is that development has to pay for its own way. 584 00:54:52,650 --> 00:54:57,550 There's been questions that have come to City Council even recently, recently, is over the weekend. 585 00:54:57,550 --> 00:55:05,730 about, you know, does, does new housing pay for all the growth that it happens, does commercial 586 00:55:05,730 --> 00:55:15,210 development. Commercial development is an easier answer, because the property taxes and, and also 587 00:55:15,210 --> 00:55:23,610 retail taxes go up with that, right? Now housing is a little bit different. Housing may not 588 00:55:23,610 --> 00:55:29,290 generate a lot more revenue, but when people move into new homes, they tend to go buy things 589 00:55:29,290 --> 00:55:31,490 and that does support it as well, 590 00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:37,310 so generally most communities have a hard-time breaking 591 00:55:37,310 --> 00:55:44,230 some of this down, especially for new growth. But I think like a lot of other communities in 592 00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:49,790 the vicinity, our standards are designed, the revenues are designed to take care of growth 593 00:55:49,790 --> 00:55:55,530 as it keeps proceeding and I can talk more about this or give Troy information and we can 594 00:55:55,530 --> 00:55:56,310 share this. 595 00:55:56,430 --> 00:56:00,430 We need to talk to utilities and others to really nail this down further. 596 00:56:02,850 --> 00:56:03,530 Thank you. 597 00:56:03,690 --> 00:56:04,190 That's helpful. 598 00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:05,410 Yeah. 599 00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:12,850 I'm sorry that I don't have all the information that might be needed at the moment, but you 600 00:56:12,850 --> 00:56:21,710 could all of this together, and the hope is, and it's more than just simply hope, but development 601 00:56:21,710 --> 00:56:28,050 projects pay for the needs that they need to, where they develop, they pay for all of that 602 00:56:28,050 --> 00:56:28,530 process. 603 00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:35,210 Now you can say, well, what about incentive programs, for example, Costco's coming in, 604 00:56:35,210 --> 00:56:41,770 Bass Pro came in, Centera South, they have some incentives where we, you know, we're sharing money. 605 00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:51,690 Revenues that may have been related to property tax or sales tax, but if it weren't for that project, 606 00:56:52,210 --> 00:56:57,530 we might not be getting anything like the projects that have resulted, right? 607 00:56:57,890 --> 00:57:03,150 So it's a kind of a but for argument, and I'm not going to get into that because I'm not the expert, but 608 00:57:03,150 --> 00:57:08,150 we can bring Marcy Willard to come and talk to you if you're interested in. 609 00:57:08,830 --> 00:57:12,510 Great, thank you. Anyone else have any questions or comments? 610 00:57:14,010 --> 00:57:18,050 Oh, I'm sure, I'm sorry, Councillor Faum. 611 00:57:20,020 --> 00:57:22,740 Thanks, Commissioner Fisher, answer to your question. 612 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:28,280 November's the goal for the charter committee, and it sounds like we have 22 finalists that 613 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,960 will have to be vetted and interviewed for that. 614 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,240 So, no members are going. 615 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:36,440 Thank you. 616 00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,660 Seeing no other lives, commissioner Herrera, anything? 617 00:57:43,940 --> 00:57:45,080 No, no, no, thank you very much. 618 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:46,160 Thank you. 619 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:47,980 Well, I think that we are finished. 620 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:48,980 And I'm going to adjourn the meeting 621 00:57:48,980 --> 00:57:50,460 and I want to thank everyone who is here. 622 00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,760 Mr. Polson, Councillor FOM, 623 00:57:53,100 --> 00:57:54,920 the Spins, Glen Flamburg, and Mr. Barrett. 624 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:55,460 Thank you. 625 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:56,120 Thanks, everybody. 626 00:57:58,140 --> 00:57:59,460 Thank you very much, my pleasure.