[0:08] Stand for the pledge of allegiance.
[0:12] I pledge allegiance to the flag United
States of America to the republic for
[0:18] which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible,
[0:23] justice for all.
[0:34] Oh, really?
[0:40] » Get used to it.
[0:52] » Okay.
[0:56] I'm going to call to order the regular
public meeting of Lower Point Township
[0:59] Board of Supervisors for Tuesday,
September 8th, 2026.
[1:03] Board of Supervisors did meet in
executive session on August 31st, 2026,
[1:08] and prior to tonight's meeting to
discuss matters of real estate related
[1:12] to the public works garage, personnel
related to police, and potential
[1:16] litigation related to emergency
management and parks.
[1:20] One announcement I want to make sure
that everyone is aware of and remembers.
[1:24] Our fall fest is Saturday, September
19th from noon to 5:00 p.m. Enjoy an
[1:29] afternoon of fall fun on the Houston
road by Whistah Hicken Middle School and
[1:32] High School actually in the road.
Everyone come out if you can. A special
[1:38] board of supervisors meeting will be
held on Tuesday, October 6 at 7 p.m. in
[1:42] the township building to discuss a
proposed zoning ordinance amendment
[1:46] regulating data centers.
want to open it up to citizen comments,
[1:50] concerns, and questions for items not on
the agenda.
[1:57] Seeing none, we're going to move on to
stormwater permitting 101 presented by
[2:03] our township engineer, Jim Hirs.
[2:13] Thank you, Danielle.
Um, so Mimi asked me to give this
[2:18] presentation to uh the board and to the
public as just an kind of an overview of
[2:23] the MS4 permit program uh where we're at
now and where we're moving to in the
[2:29] future. So um the next slide please
Jamie. The MS4 MPDS
[2:36] permit program uh MPDS stands for
National Pollutant Discharge Elimination
[2:41] System. Uh MS4 stands for municipal
separate storm sewer system. Uh this is
[2:47] a federallymandated permit program. Um
it's enforced by EPA. I believe it came
[2:52] into effect uh as part of the Clean
Water Act. Uh EPA pushed those
[2:57] regulations onto uh Pennsylvania D who
pushed those regulations onto local
[3:04] municipalities. So much like storm
water, the regulations run downhill and
[3:08] you guys didn't really have anywhere
else to uh push them off to. There you
[3:12] go. [laughter]
So, uh the ultimate goal of the program
[3:16] is to uh recognize and increase
awareness uh for storm water as a
[3:20] pollutant or a point source pollutant
discharge. Um so what ends up happening
[3:24] when there is any kind of a pollutant on
the ground and it rains uh the raindrops
[3:29] pick up those pollutants and then that's
what travels to the creeks and uh causes
[3:34] them to be impaired. So um you know
we're trying to manage storm water and
[3:39] then we're also trying to raise
awareness and um you know clean it up.
[3:44] Next slide.
Um so the base of the program is four uh
[3:50] best management practices which are
called minimum control measures. Um
[3:55] basically through the township staff
through some assistance from uh my
[4:00] office through your u environmental
advisory committee and through you know
[4:05] the board of supervisors you're you're
complying with these minimum control
[4:09] measures uh public education and
outreach. There's a storm water page on
[4:13] your website where residents can go and
they can click on information and they
[4:17] they can see kind of what's going on
with storm water in the township, what
[4:21] they can do to um you know do their
part. We'll go over that in a little
[4:25] bit. Uh public involvement and
participation. Your EAC has the Gwenned
[4:30] Green program where they're sort of um
you know challenging residents to um you
[4:36] know increase awareness and then also
just be involved in overall
[4:40] environmental concerns and storm water
things as well. Um elicit discharge
[4:45] detection elimination. So there's about
um [clears throat] 100 outfalls
[4:51] where storm water discharges to various
creeks throughout the township. So what
[4:56] ends up happening your MS4 pro or your
system is like the collection of roads,
[5:01] ditches, uh drainage, inlets along the
road, pipes, and then those all that
[5:07] stuff leads to what's called an outfall.
Um, so as part of the program, every 5
[5:12] years, my office goes out and we screen
the outfalls to make sure that if
[5:18] there's dry weather flow in those
outfalls, which means it hasn't rained
[5:22] within 72 hours and there's flow in
them, then we take a sample and we send
[5:26] it to a lab and we make sure that that
is like clean water or ground water most
[5:30] likely. And it's not um you know
somebody has a
[5:35] sort of uh someone has a bathroom in
their basement that they have connected
[5:38] to something that they're not supposed
to or um you know any other it's not
[5:42] coming from any place that's not clean
water. So we we test those on a 5year
[5:47] rolling cycle. Um we we haven't really
found any that have uh something in them
[5:53] but if they do then we sort of try to
trace it back and and figure out where
[5:56] the um you know pollution might be
coming from.
[6:00] uh construction site storm water runoff
control. It's uh basically done through
[6:05] the ENS permits and um you know
construction erosion control stuff. Um
[6:11] you know you see the silt sock, you see
the tire cleaners like during
[6:14] construction is a big time when sediment
can run off because the ground's
[6:19] exposed. So, you know, everybody that
moves any earth in the township has to
[6:23] have an ENS plan and a permit in place.
And our office is overseeing the
[6:29] construction uh post construction, storm
water management, development,
[6:32] redevelopment. This is uh handled
through your storm water management
[6:37] ordinance because anytime anyone
proposes a thousand square feet or more
[6:41] of imperous surface, they're required to
install storm water management controls,
[6:46] whether that's a rain garden, a seepage
pit, a rain barrel, storm water basin to
[6:51] control runoff so that post construction
their storm water is um less or
[6:57] equivalent to what was there from
pre-development.
[7:00] uh pollution prevention, good
housekeeping.
[7:04] The township has a public works, you
know, you public works garage, you've
[7:07] got various public's works facilities.
Um, you know, that's Fred making sure
[7:13] that there's spill kits at everywhere
where there should be spill kits that
[7:17] when they wash the trucks, it's going
into a drain that eventually goes to the
[7:22] sanitary system and and not to the storm
water system. Um, so a lot of the
[7:27] pollution prevention, good housekeeping
measures are are the public works arm of
[7:31] this. Um, I will say that D comes out
about once every 5 to 10 years to to do
[7:38] an audit of the program. Jamie, myself,
Fred uh met with the D people and uh
[7:44] they were all very happy with everything
that the township had been doing to kind
[7:48] of comply with these six MCMS.
[clears throat] What uh what can
[7:53] residents do to help? There's uh some
information on the website as I said,
[7:57] but like you know just kind of making
sure that like your stuff um you know if
[8:02] you're washing your car, it's draining
to you know your your yard instead of
[8:07] right down your driveway and into a
storm drain. If it gets to the yard,
[8:11] then the grass and the soil can have a
chance to kind of get some of those
[8:15] pollutants out before it gets to the
creek. Um you know, cleaning up after
[8:18] your pets,
pretty self-explanatory thing. Um, you
[8:23] know, you could consider planting uh
more trees at your house. I know
[8:28] everybody likes to use fertilizer in
their yard because they want their yard
[8:31] to look really nice. And I I use it
myself, so I'm not going to say don't
[8:36] use it, but um you know, if you could
use it as sparingly as possible cuz a
[8:40] lot of the waters are impaired for
nutrients, and one of the uh primary
[8:45] contributors to nutrients is fertilizer
in our lawns and yards. um you know,
[8:50] properly dispose of hazardous materials.
Um if you've got old paint or um you
[8:56] know, gasoline or oil or whatever, like
those have to go to a like a recycling
[9:01] facility that they can't just be dumped
into the ground or dumped uh you know,
[9:06] into the storm drain. And then you can
also report um if you see any discharges
[9:11] from any of the outfalls that you think
are um you know, a pollutant, then you
[9:16] know, report it to the township. I think
there's probably a link on the website
[9:20] or the you guys have that traer links
thing, right?
[9:24] » Yeah, we have the citizens request
portal and there's a storm water um
[9:28] option in there that you could report
anything like that.
[9:32] » Okay.
>> Um what would be a pollutant or what
[9:36] would be a constitute a discharge to
call about? Next slide. Um, anything
[9:42] that's like you see discolored water, a
color you're not expecting to see. I
[9:47] mean, the picture shows what happens
when like oil mixes with water or
[9:50] gasoline mixes with water. Uh, so does
it have a sheen, a film, a foam, an
[9:55] odor? Um, if you see a bunch of dead
fish in the creek, that would probably
[10:00] call.
[10:05] um the another so the MCMs are like the
baseline for the program and those have
[10:12] been around for since the program was
started which I'm going to say was about
[10:17] like 20 years ago now. Um but in the
last like 5 to 10 years there's this
[10:24] extra layer of it and those are um
pollution reduction plans. Um, so if
[10:29] you're if you had an impaired water
within your township and you guys have
[10:34] two, you actually have the the whisten
watershed which is probably 90%
[10:41] of your township and then uh the little
naminity is the other, you know, 10 to
[10:46] 15%.
Both of those are impaired for uh
[10:51] sediment and and nutrients. So, we we
had to do a pollution reduction plan and
[10:56] that was a five-year plan to implement
um best management practices, BMPPS to
[11:02] uh you know try to clean up the water as
best as we could. So, what was a
[11:07] pollution reduction plan? Um we had to
reduce the overall uh sediment to the
[11:13] waterways by 10% and the nutrients by
5%. So, there was a like I said an
[11:18] initial 5-year term. It was 2020 to
2025.
[11:22] D
um decided to extend that 5-year permit
[11:27] term uh to 2030. So, we basically just
had to reapply and we got granted an
[11:33] extension to 2030. So, what type of
improvements were made. Uh we did some
[11:38] rain gardens. Uh there's one at the back
corner of this township building where
[11:42] there used to be a landscaped island
next to I don't even know if it was
[11:47] landscape but there's an island next to
one of the parking rows and uh you know
[11:51] it got hogged out. It got some amended
soils in it. It got planted with some
[11:55] native plants and then there's about
let's say like a quarter of this
[12:00] building the roof drains from it were
redirected and then they drain into
[12:04] there. It fills up and then it
eventually drains to the creek. So it's
[12:07] cleaning water. Um, we did basin
retrofits where like a lot of basins
[12:12] that were put in in the 80s and 90s.
They didn't do water quality. They were
[12:18] just really concerned with flood
mitigation. So, um, you know, we did
[12:22] some retrofits there. I have a couple
slides later on of ones that we did at
[12:26] Springhouse Farms in the adjacent
community here where there were, uh,
[12:30] concrete lowflow channels that we were
were were taken out and they were
[12:34] naturally planted. Uh we also did some
stream bank restoration. There was a
[12:38] stream bank restoration project that
happened behind the township building um
[12:43] in conjunction with the replacement of
the uh old Betham Pike culvert. You can
[12:49] also do new basins and you can do
riparian buffer enhancement forestation
[12:54] and and meadows. Those are all like
examples of things that can be done in
[12:57] the plan.
Uh so this is just a little bit about
[13:00] the springhouse farm basin retrofit.
That picture the top left shows like the
[13:05] concrete low flow channels that go
through. There's basically two places
[13:09] where the storm water would come through
pipes and then go and lead towards that
[13:13] outlet on the left. Um you know in the
summertime the sun is baking that
[13:19] concrete. That concrete's hot and then
the flow comes through. It runs across
[13:24] that concrete. It gets hot hotter picks
up the heat and then gets into the
[13:29] creek. And the thermal impacts to the
creek are a big deal because the aquatic
[13:33] life is used to a temperature that uh
you know the creek is at and then an
[13:38] influx of this warm water comes in and
you know they don't like it. The center
[13:44] picture is just kind of like the native
planting and kind of what we ended up
[13:47] doing. We took out the low flow channel.
It became a meandering river rock
[13:53] situation. Um that river rock doesn't
get as hot as the concrete. And then
[13:58] also the plantings, the native plantings
on like 10 feet of either side of that
[14:02] um create the the native look that um
you know increases improves water
[14:07] quality, reduces the thermal impact. The
the native plants create a more diverse
[14:13] eco system and uh there's a reducing
reduction in runoff through infiltration
[14:18] evapo transpiration. So that's a example
of a project that counted towards the
[14:24] PRP pollution reduction plan. the uh
Willow Run stream bank enhancement that
[14:30] was uh upstream and downstream of the
new culvert that's behind the township
[14:34] building. Um before there was some
pretty significant erosion on the top
[14:40] and bottom of the the culvert in that
area and then leading down towards
[14:45] Betham Pike. Um the project creates uh
more like uh gentler banks and um also
[14:54] the plantings
and uh matting and and all the
[14:58] reinforcement will help to solidify the
soil and prevent future erosion. Um so
[15:03] there's kind of like a before, a during
and then um that's after picture that
[15:08] Fred took last week. So it's like it's
growing in pretty nicely and I would
[15:12] expect it to grow in um a little better
too as it moves on.
[15:19] So kind of next steps and you know I'll
answer any questions anyone might have
[15:23] but uh so the current permit term will
end in 2030. There's uh one more program
[15:29] or there's one more um project that
we're going to try to get done before
[15:34] 2030. It's in the little Namin Creek
wershed which is essentially the corner
[15:39] of the township that is bound by Mckeen
Tennis and Welsh Road. Um like J&J's
[15:47] campus is a big part of that and uh you
know those neighborhoods
[15:53] that um are at the corner of Tennis and
uh Welsh Landfair Llewellyn like all
[16:01] those are in that area too. There's not
a lot of space over there to do a lot of
[16:06] like improvements, but um we did
identify there's two creeks that go
[16:09] through J&J's campus and um there's a
potential to do some storm water to do
[16:15] some stream bank stabilization there. We
had some discussions with them a while
[16:19] ago. We actually put a grant in for it,
but we didn't get it. Um but you know,
[16:25] we'll just keep trying to try to get a
grant to do that one last project. But
[16:28] like generally speaking in, you know,
consideration of like what I know about
[16:34] other neighboring municipalities and
like similar situations, you guys are
[16:38] definitely in a good spot and like ahead
of the curve for this. Um,
[16:43] and then, you know, before the 2030
permit term ends, D's definitely going
[16:50] to come up with some kind of new
regulation to try to make you guys do
[16:55] five more years of projects. They just
haven't said what that will be yet. I
[17:00] mean, they teased it a little bit and
they took some comments on it, but I
[17:04] mean, it's just basically going to be
you got to do some more projects. We got
[17:08] to try to find places for those
projects. Um, it will become harder
[17:13] because
the
[17:16] avail like the township only has so much
land. So, you're going to have to really
[17:20] start to probably try to partner with um
different entities and and try to get
[17:25] creative with how you get it done. But
until we know what the rules are, it
[17:29] doesn't really pay to sort of guess on
it. Um the other thing, the Whisick and
[17:36] Clean Water Partnership, um we call it
the Quip. Um about 10 years ago, I'd say
[17:44] 10, yeah, 10 10 12 years ago, the D
released a draft of what they call a
[17:50] TMDL plan. It's a TMDL stands for total
maximum daily load. Um they were
[17:57] basically saying that the um the
Whisticken Creek was impaired for
[18:02] phosphorus which is a nutrient and that
the uh it was a draft and that if it was
[18:09] released that you know all
municipalities would have to comply with
[18:12] this and some of the reductions were
very very very very steep like you know
[18:18] you've got to reduce 95% of all
phosphorus that goes to the waterways.
[18:24] A lot of municipalities, a lot of
engineers thought that it was an
[18:28] unachievable goal. So there was a
coalition of like 13 municipalities that
[18:35] formed the Swiss Hickin Clean Water
Partnership to work with D and the EPA
[18:40] to come up with what they call an
alternative TMDL. Basically like will
[18:45] you not release this thing you said you
might release if we come to you with a
[18:50] plan that you deem equivalent to that?
And um I mean they've been working with
[18:56] D and the EPA for like 10 years now and
they haven't quite come to a resolution
[19:02] on that yet. Um lower when it is part of
this quip. I I think you're all aware of
[19:07] that. And um you know eventually when
the quip gets approved
[19:13] they're going to the quip is going to
come to lower and they're going to ask
[19:17] that you you know buy into the the plan
and there's going to be certainly you
[19:23] know more improvements that will will
need to be made yet to be determined
[19:27] whether that quip and those improvements
uh relieve you of what's 2030 to 2035 in
[19:35] D's eyes like D won't say. You can ask
them, but they won't say. Um, so that's
[19:42] kind of where
we have that at. Is there anything you
[19:46] want me to add to that? Do you want to
add anything?
[19:51] Just say that we've just received DP's
comments about it. Um, there is a
[19:57] meeting on Thursday of members of the
Wisconsin Clean Water Partnership to
[20:01] discuss it. Um, this was months ago. EPA
had sent comments to D really what
[20:08] sounded like questioning the whole
premise of the alternative TMDL
[20:13] which is kind of doing this
watershedwide approach to storm water
[20:18] improvements instead of focusing
specifically on reducing the phosphorus
[20:22] which is what exceeds the the total
maximum daily load that they want to
[20:27] see. Um, DP acknowledged some of that in
the comments, but also sort of
[20:33] acknowledged the years of work that have
been done to summarize it in a nutshell.
[20:39] This sounds to me like years more work
trying to get this water quality
[20:42] improvement plan ready for adoption. I
don't know if they're going to really
[20:46] give us more that much more time. They
there was no indication in the comment
[20:50] letter that they wouldn't, but we'll
know more about how this is going to
[20:56] proceed after the meeting on Thursday.
Hopefully,
[20:59] that's the management committee of the
group.
[21:04] » May I ask when we last got our permit?
Was it 2025 or was it 2020
[21:10] from D? Yeah, we we applied at the end
of last year and I think we got it at
[21:16] the very beginning of of this year.
>> So in theory, five years, 2031, 2030,
[21:24] » 2030, I think is the what I would say
I'd call it. I think
[21:27] » Do they ever wait 10 years?
>> Yeah, they've always done it in five.
[21:31] » They've just always been fiveyear
cycles. This is the
[21:37] I think they intended to come out with
new regulations for this permit cycle,
[21:42] but to be honest with you, there were so
many municipalities that sub because for
[21:49] the 2020 permit, I think we submitted in
like 2017.
[21:54] » Yeah. And then D took three whole years
to review everything, the PRP plans
[22:01] before they gave us our permit in 2020.
>> And then we had 5 years and we were
[22:07] working towards that. But you guys were
one of the first ones to get a permit.
[22:13] Like there were municipalities, I mean
there's probably municipalities that
[22:16] still don't have their first permit from
when they submitted in like 2018.
[22:22] So, is there a benefit for being uh
proactive and submitting?
[22:29] » I think well, you have to do the like
everyone's going have to do the projects
[22:33] regardless. So, like you're I would say
you're positive is that you got 90% of
[22:39] your projects done and now you could
take a fiveyear breather and like just
[22:42] try to get this one extra one done. And
while you're doing that and taking that
[22:46] breather, hopefully the quip stuff comes
into focus and you know, you guys can
[22:52] kind of view it all together.
Whereas like if you
[22:57] » because it sounds like, and this is just
me, very peripheral hearing what Mimi
[23:01] said and hearing what you're saying, it
sounds like the quit might be
[23:06] this and that. Meaning, we would like
you to reduce your total daily load of
[23:10] phosphorus, but since you brought up
>> Yeah. Yeah, but since you brought up
[23:14] storm water, do that too.
>> Double dip.
[23:17] » Oh, the water.
>> And so
[23:20] » it it really does.
>> Instead of
[23:22] » No, I know.
>> just focusing on phosphorus and the
[23:24] reduction in phosphorus, which in and of
itself could be a beast. Um, based upon
[23:28] what I've seen other municipalities go
through, since you brought up the idea
[23:32] that you want to address storm water,
too, we can do these both things at the
[23:35] same time. And I just don't know if
we're equipped or if all municipalities
[23:39] are equipped to address both at the same
time. Um, now since you mentioned it,
[23:44] they might like it.
Not that you have an answer. I'm just
[23:49] thinking like we may have we may have
snowballed ourselves and
[23:54] » I'm assuming there's just one other
project that we have identified that we
[23:57] have left or do we need to then come up
with additional if they don't give us a
[24:01] new plan in 2030? you you have to do one
more project between now and 2030
[24:08] » and then sometime between now and 2030 I
would imagine that they're going to come
[24:12] out with guidance for the new permit
term
[24:16] » and they're you're going to have to come
up with new projects to comply with that
[24:21] guidance and that plan would I know D if
they're trying to start the permits in
[24:27] 2030 then they usually they want the
applications about 180 days before for
[24:32] that. So you're looking like mid 2029
to have the plan already.
[24:37] » If you got to have the plan by mid 2029,
you probably start working on the plan
[24:41] » the beginning of 29, end of 28. So, but
we can't come up with a plan until they
[24:48] give us guidance and guidelines on what
that needs to happen. And then I would
[24:52] have would really hope that by that time
they've made a decision on whether you
[24:58] know because you're going to have to
you're going to have to do projects for
[25:01] the
>> Quip if you so choose to join the Quip
[25:05] [clears throat]
>> and whether those projects will count
[25:08] towards the obligations in the new
permit term
[25:13] » 2030. That's a question I don't know the
answer to. Do you know?
[25:17] » No. Yeah, that's the unknown. But then
the other piece is um like Jim mentioned
[25:24] the township has a TMDL on the little
namin as well. So the quip is completely
[25:31] focused on the whista hicken. Um so
you're still going to be under an
[25:36] obligation for the little namin. So the
little namin TMDL is it because we don't
[25:42] have wastewater treatment here and so
the my understanding is the phosphorus
[25:46] is controlled by the processing of
sewage. Is that accurate?
[25:50] » That's uh one way that it enters the
system I'd say. Yeah.
[25:55] » Um so without the sewage treatment
what would our what would our obligation
[26:00] be to the little namin?
Well,
[26:05] all of the storm water improvements like
a a new basin or a basin retrofit or any
[26:11] kind of water quality situation like
does reduce phosphorus and reduces the
[26:16] nutrients. So,
>> so you're making the argument that
[26:19] managing storm water does reduce
phosphorus. So that they should be one
[26:22] in the same storm water reduction and
TMDL should be the you're making the
[26:26] argument for the
[laughter]
[26:28] » I'm not uh
>> uh I don't know what it is for the
[26:36] » I don't think it's phosphor I don't
think it's phosphorus I think it is it's
[26:41] um
>> nitrate so nitrate uh yeah it is it's
[26:44] nitrogen you're right
>> yeah which is mostly the fertilizer
[26:47] stuff
>> yep
[26:49] » okay
>> just got to tell old York They can't
[26:51] fertilize any [laughter] of their
>> Okay. I think this I think this frames
[26:58] things well.
>> Okay.
[27:00] » I think it's a lot of and this is just
my I'm only one supervisor. I think from
[27:03] my perspective it frames things well. I
think we it's a lot of unknowns and we
[27:06] need
>> D to
[27:08] » I think unfortunately there's a lot so
there's unknowns coming from D and then
[27:11] there's a lot of unknowns coming from
the like Quip angle too
[27:15] » because there's just there's a lot of
projects that are being proposed in that
[27:21] » and I'm not sure there's a great handle
on how much it's like all going to cost.
[27:25] I think in addition to that I think the
fundamental question is is the storm
[27:30] water management and those projects
related to that answering the question
[27:34] that the TMDL posed to us meaning are we
reducing the phosphorus and is and if
[27:41] that is the goal are we certain that
stormwater management is sufficient to
[27:46] get there
>> I don't know if we know yet I don't know
[27:51] if we know course of action if that's
the most economic course of action I
[27:54] think storm water management will help
but I just I remember the TMDL asking
[28:01] for the phosphorus to be reduced by 95%
or something like that and like DPS's
[28:08] approved BMPPS
to treat a certain amount of phosphorus
[28:13] might might treat 60% or 40% and that's
only from the drainage area that is
[28:21] captured
>> if you're talking about like every drop
[28:24] of water that falls falls on a township
and 95% like you got to catch it all in
[28:28] something to do 60%. And then once it
leaves that it's got to be put through
[28:33] something else to do. You can never get
there cuz you just keep cutting the pie
[28:37] down slow. That was like the argument
against implementing the TMDL as it was.
[28:44] So I think the alternative became an
idea.
[28:48] » But I don't know. It's above me to tell
you whether it's going to all the storm
[28:54] water improvements are going to actually
make the creek cleaner or not. I mean,
[28:58] it will make it cleaner, but will it
make it clean to the point where they're
[29:02] trying to get it to? I don't know that
answer.
[29:04] » For the lay people, can you say what a
BMP is?
[29:07] » Uh best management practice. It's
essentially just the the facility, the
[29:12] storm water improvement. It could be a
basin. It uh could be a seepage pit. It
[29:16] could be a rain garden. It could be a
vegetated roof, uh, stream bankank
[29:21] stabilization, riparian buffer
enhancement, just anything that is an
[29:26] improvement in the built world that um,
you know, helps storm water.
[29:31] » Yeah. There's no way to calculate if we
do all those things simultaneously, do
[29:35] we get to the 90%.
>> Yeah. And I think that the
[29:39] » and the cost
>> I think the Quip there's like a water
[29:45] quality sampling attachment to to the
Quip plan where they're going to go out
[29:49] and they're going to sample the water
pre plan and they're going to sample it
[29:54] at intervals throughout and I think
they're hoping that it's going to get
[29:59] better. It probably will get better. I
just don't know till what point. Yeah,
[30:04] » the D comments address the vagueness of
in the water quality improvement plan
[30:10] about how much the phosphorus would be
reduced um because it kind of it sort of
[30:16] becomes a side issue sort of I'm
generalizing a little bit but um it
[30:20] sounds like that was EPA's guidance and
D is saying you know yeah you
[30:25] technically should be setting these
goals like saying with this plan we
[30:29] expect to achieve the 90% or 95%
whatever it this percent reduction in
[30:33] phosphorus and we'll this much in the
first five years and this much in the
[30:37] next five years and that's not in the
plan now. I don't know if there's work
[30:42] behind the scenes somewhere that they
can draw from to do all of that or if
[30:46] they kind of have to start over and
calculate all of that. That could take a
[30:50] while.
>> Yeah, I think that's kind of
[30:53] » just out of curiosity. Is there any
municipality within Montgomery County
[30:56] that's not a part of a TMDL?
Uh yeah, definitely. Yeah, for sure. Um
[31:02] every
>> I don't want to say every municipality
[31:06] in Montgomery County has an impaired
water. Most
[31:11] most do. Most in this area do, but not
every impaired water has a TMDL. Like
[31:18] for instance, the penny the penny pack
>> which um you know drains in the area of
[31:24] Upper Morland, Horscham, um Abington
like that is impaired for sediment, but
[31:31] it doesn't have what's doesn't have the
TMDL attached to it. There's like a stem
[31:38] of it that's the Southampton Creek that
has one for certain nutrients. Um, but
[31:44] no, not everybody has a TMDL, but every
waterway is pretty much
[31:48] » impaired in some form in this area of
the state.
[31:56] » Okay.
[31:59] » I don't know if anybody else from the
board has any questions.
[32:02] » Very informative. Thank you, Jim. Yeah,
you're welcome.
[32:15] Next up, we have um
a change order related to GMBB's
[32:21] contract um along the Old Betham Pike
covert. Uh included in the board's
[32:26] packet is a memorandum
um from uh township staff as well as a
[32:34] letter from our engineer kind of
articulating that um township staff um
[32:40] that our engineer met with a residents
um and they expressed um some concerns
[32:46] around the newly reconstructed bridge on
Old Betham Pike and the I guess visual
[32:53] impact that that bridge would have. Um
there was, I guess, a plan that was
[32:59] supported and and developed by our
engineer. Um and that's a landscaping
[33:03] plan. It was sent to our bridge
contractor. Um for pricing, we got a
[33:08] quote of $11,850.
Um the recommendation
[33:13] is within the um actual budget for the
overall project
[33:18] and and does seem reasonable according
to our engineer and township staff. Um,
[33:24] and I think we have a a little bit of a
visual talk about what that would look
[33:30] like and where it would be. Um,
are there any questions from the board
[33:36] related to that plan?
>> I have a question. Are um all the plants
[33:42] that are on the plan schedule um native
plannings?
[33:48] Yeah.
Anybody
[33:54] else?
[34:02] Nobody. So, we have you for us a
consideration of this project. It's an
[34:08] additional 11,000.
[34:11] Oh, are there any Nobody was here, so I
forgot. Any public questions or
[34:15] concerns?
No,
[34:20] » no one.
Okay.
[34:23] So, we have before us um consideration
of this plan.
[34:29] Again, it falls within the actual budget
of the proposed replacement for the
[34:32] bridge
does appear to be reasonable. The total
[34:36] amount of the quote is $1,850
um for us to authorize uh this change
[34:43] order to GMBB. I'd like to make a motion
to approve the change order um to GMBB
[34:48] in the amount of $11,850 to add to that
landscaping on Old Bethlehem Pike and
[34:53] for the Covert Replacement and Stream
Bank restoration for the landscaping
[34:56] around. Is there a second?
>> All those in favor?
[35:00] » I motion is approved. Um next up we have
consideration for our actuary and our
[35:06] pension admin. included in the board
packet is a memorandum from retellent
[35:10] manager outlining um that in accordance
with resolution 202320
[35:16] um they went through the selection
process for professional consultants as
[35:20] it relates to um staff for for pension
actuary and administrative services. The
[35:26] recommendation is for Thomas J. Anderson
and Associates as both the actuary and
[35:31] the pension administrator.
Included in the board packet is the RFP
[35:35] for review. Um, are there any questions
from the board?
[35:40] » This something that we did internally
before.
[35:46] » We have to have an actuary. So, we've
had one before. What we're adding is the
[35:51] » the administr the pension administration
is new. It's to take some work off of
[35:56] Melinda's desk and give it to somebody
who's an expert in the field. Right.
[36:02] That's what I'm saying. We handle this
in house.
[36:04] » Correct. Gotcha.
>> Okay. Any additional questions from the
[36:08] board?
Questions from the public?
[36:14] Seeing none, like to make a motion at
the recommendation of staff to appoint
[36:18] Thomas J. Anderson and Associates as our
actuary and our pension administrator.
[36:21] Is there a second?
>> All those in favor?
[36:24] » I motion is approved. Next up is the
consideration of or
[36:32] um
Next up is the consideration to approve
[36:35] ordinance 5 558 um for the execution of
the cable franchise agreement between
[36:40] the township and Verizon included in the
board packet is the Verizon cable
[36:43] franchise agreement. Are there any
questions from the board?
[36:48] Any questions from the public? No.
Seeing none, I'd like to mo make a
[36:52] motion to approve ordinance 558
authorizing the execution of the cable
[36:56] franchise agreement between the township
and Verizon Pennsylvania LLC. Is there a
[37:00] second?
>> All those in favor?
[37:03] » I
>> I motion carries. Next up is the um
[37:09] consideration. Hold on.
Uh
[37:14] » no, Case. Yeah,
>> that's good.
[37:19] » Oh, okay. I don't see it. I don't think
I have the Okay, wait a minute. It's not
[37:24] working. Oh,
[37:28] » okay. I see it now. There's too many. I
have four. Okay, never mind. Doesn't
[37:31] matter. Um, next up is
[clears throat] the consideration for
[37:35] the advertising legal notice authorizing
execution of a renewed cable franchise
[37:39] agreement between the township and
Comcast of PA LLC. included in the board
[37:43] packet is a memorandum outlining um the
agreement. Are there any questions from
[37:48] the board? How come mine says Ryzen?
>> It's fine.
[37:56] » Um the highlighting in the Comcast
agreement is that like for our benefit
[38:00] » like two
>> and then Comcast and then it says
[38:03] similar to Verizon inside the memo.
>> Yeah. Okay. All right.
[38:11] No other comments.
>> Any questions from the public?
[38:16] » Seeing none, um I could make a motion to
approve the authorization of the legal
[38:22] notice for an ordinance authorizing
executive execution of the renewed cable
[38:26] franchise agreement between the township
and count and Comcast of PA LLC and
[38:31] Comcast of Southeast PA LLC. Is there a
second?
[38:35] » All those in favor? I
>> motion carries.
[38:43] Next up, we have the invoice report
um for September 8th, 2026. Are there
[38:50] any questions from the board?
[38:58] Seeing none, I'd like to make a motion
to approve the invoice report. Any
[39:01] questions from the public?
Seeing none, I'd like to make a motion
[39:05] to approve the invoice report for
September 8th, 2020 26. Is there a
[39:09] second? All those in favor? I.
>> Motion's approved. Um the minutes for
[39:15] the meeting of August 25th, 2026 were
included in the board packet. Any
[39:18] questions, concerns, or updates from the
board?
[39:23] Seeing none, I'd like to make a motion
to approve the minutes um for the
[39:26] meeting of August 25th, 2026. Is there a
second?
[39:30] » Second.
>> All those in favor? I motion is
[39:32] approved. Um, next up we have the
supervisor leazison on reports. Demi, do
[39:36] you have anything? Oh, no. I'm sorry. I
skipped this. The leazison reports are
[39:40] added are included in the in the board
packet. If you have any questions, I
[39:43] switch to supervisor comments. Are there
any staff updates
[39:49] now? Supervisor comments. Jimmy too.
[39:55] » No, nothing to add.
>> Um, Janine, come on out for a fall fest.
[40:03] none.
>> Um I have no comments as well. Fall fest
[40:06] is September 19th 12 to 5. I hope to see
everybody there. Um like to make a
[40:11] motion to adjurnn. Is there a second?
Second.
[40:13] » All those in favor? Meeting is
adjourned.
[40:19] » Was Light.