1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:08,839 Okay. >> But Kate law 2 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:19,320 » I worked for the city of Englewood 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:28,160 challenging because they have all the general. 4 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:28,160 » So yeah, I learned a lot. 5 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:35,800 I don't blame you. I'm about to go back to my left Westminster lady. 6 00:00:46,505 --> 00:00:48,525 [music] 7 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:58,079 We're live. Okay, Jason, do you want to call immed? 8 00:00:55,199 --> 00:01:06,479 » Go ahead and call. The immediate order is 6 o'clock, November 25th, 2025. Start 9 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:08,720 with roll call. >> Jason Beer 10 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,119 » here. >> Uh Bob Lewig 11 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,680 » here. >> Jesse West. 12 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,200 » Craig Bolan >> here. 13 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:21,960 » Rocky Summers >> here. Josh, 14 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,960 Kathy Taylor here. 15 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,680 We have a quorum. >> Thank you. 16 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,479 » Moving on to approval of the agenda. Everybody had a chance to look over the 17 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:36,040 agenda. Is there any additions or things you'd 18 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,040 like to see changed? 19 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:44,159 » I move to approve the agenda as presented. Second. 20 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:49,200 » So moved and second to approve the agenda. Any discussion? 21 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:53,119 None. All in favor say I. >> I. 22 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:57,920 » All opposed. Motion carries. 23 00:01:56,079 --> 00:02:01,119 Moving on to number three, public comments. I'm sorry. Commissioner 24 00:01:59,759 --> 00:02:05,680 members comments. Anybody have anything before you get started? 25 00:02:04,159 --> 00:02:09,200 No. Like to welcome Cassie. It's our first 26 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:15,160 meeting. Welcome. Thanks for being here. >> Thank you. 27 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:15,160 » Proceed with public comments. 28 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,080 anybody like comments. 29 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:35,519 Uh so my name is Renee and today we purchased 205 East Avenue N which was 30 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:39,599 formerly known as the old Culligan warehouse. 31 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Our address has been changed to reflect um a correct location on the block. So, 32 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:51,519 we're now formerly known as 213 East AppN. 33 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:56,239 Yes. Um, we're here to partition and respectfully request you guys consider 34 00:02:53,920 --> 00:03:02,560 changing zoning. So, we are zoned commercial and we would hope to be zoned 35 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:07,840 as a mixed use um for here in Lions. some of the the benefits of reszoning. 36 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:14,560 Um, as Lions continues to evolve and change, 37 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:19,440 so do its needs. Our property, um, in the current commercial designation 38 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:24,800 remained underutilized for an extended period of time. If my memory serves me 39 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:29,680 correct, um, it was on the market for almost four years. 40 00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:35,280 So, by repurposing an ex an existing building, um, it encourages smart 41 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:41,280 growth. We purchased the property in September of 2024, and we take great 42 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:45,440 pride in our ownership, and we've we took just 14 loads to the dump, just 43 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:51,280 cleaning out our lot. That was our sideyard and the front yard that we own. 44 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:54,560 Um, that's not including any of the materials that we removed out of the 45 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:59,439 building. Um 46 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:06,640 there are several nearby properties that also share the same uh problem or issue 47 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:12,400 that we have in that it's a combination of residential and commercial. So we 48 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:18,479 would hope that with there being multiple properties that there is a need 49 00:04:14,799 --> 00:04:22,160 in Lions to to reszone. Um, 50 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:27,280 as far as public safety goes, we feel like we are enhancing like a 51 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:31,840 neighborhood crime watch area. We are there constantly. We see what's 52 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:36,720 happening. Um, our own personal security cameras have picked up on um some theft 53 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:41,919 in the area which was reported to the police department. Um, they monitor our 54 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:46,400 neighborhood a lot more closely. We see them go by on our cameras about 6 to 55 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:53,759 eight times a night as they go down through um our area. So having a 56 00:04:51,120 --> 00:05:00,680 mixeduse property and having people in a commercial and residential area, it 57 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,680 discourages crime. Um 58 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:13,199 we um we believe that it provides a stronger um property value. Um, we're 59 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:18,240 paying taxes as residents of Lions and um, we pay higher [clears throat] fees 60 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:24,639 um, being a commercial building and our tax dollars are helping out the city. 61 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:30,160 We also believe that our property and other properties that would be mixed to 62 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:35,600 zoning encourage community interactions and social cohesion. Um, I opened two 63 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:41,600 businesses out of that building that we now live in. um Wills You Craft with Me 64 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:47,360 and Wills You Photography. My craft business provided a place for 65 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:54,479 people to come in Lions, not having to leave this amazing little community and 66 00:05:50,639 --> 00:06:01,120 spend their tax dollars in Hutch or Great Bend or Salina. [music] Um, I was 67 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:06,880 providing painting parties where we could get together and everyone was 68 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:14,160 welcome to to join us and have fun and laugh and build this sense of community. 69 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:18,160 And we had a great time doing it. It's kind of been put on the back burner as 70 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:24,400 we've been trying to get ourselves situated and and make it more of a 71 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:29,600 residential, but I I'm not giving up Wills You Craft with Me and [music] 72 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:35,440 Wills You Photography. That is one of the reasons that we love our our town so 73 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:40,479 much is because we can provide a service that's needed. Um, and everyone was 74 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:46,160 enjoying the fact that there was a place that 75 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:49,919 they could go to enjoy gathering and socializing and being 76 00:06:47,919 --> 00:06:55,199 together. Um, as this community evolves, having 77 00:06:52,800 --> 00:07:00,160 mixed zoning in place allows for an easy transition back and forth between it 78 00:06:57,919 --> 00:07:05,919 being a mixeduse or commercial property or residential. Um, 79 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:10,240 our building was underutilized for so long and it's great to see life coming 80 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:17,919 back into it and I see that in the town of Lions. We want to breathe life into 81 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:23,440 our community. Um, we picked Lions because the people picked us. 82 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:31,520 When we first started looking at where to move, um, Colorado was not affordable 83 00:07:27,759 --> 00:07:35,680 anymore and and we had a list of places and states and Kansas was on our short 84 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,360 list and we kept coming here to visit and we kept going to different places 85 00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:43,680 and one of my co-workers back in Colorado, she was a speech therapist at 86 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:50,880 my school for deaf and heart of hearing. She um she said, "You walk into the town 87 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:56,879 and you go to the coffee shop and if they look at you like you're aliens, 88 00:07:53,840 --> 00:08:01,759 that's not your town. And if you walk in and they act like, "Hey, where have you 89 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:05,919 been your whole life?" That's your town. And that's what happened when we walked 90 00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:10,080 into Lions. We looked at other towns in the state. We went to Pratt. We looked 91 00:08:07,919 --> 00:08:15,680 at St. John. I thought for sure we were going to land in Morning, 92 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:20,240 but we walked into Brew 56 and that sealed the deal. We walked into 93 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:24,639 our town, our community, the place where we wanted our kids to know [music] 94 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:31,599 people because in Colorado, you don't get to know anybody anymore. No one has 95 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:38,640 relationships. No one talks. It's go to work, get home, go to work, get home 96 00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:43,039 every day. And Lions is our [music] our home. We fell in love with the people in 97 00:08:40,719 --> 00:08:47,760 this community. They're kind. They're genuine. And these people we now call 98 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:53,040 our friends. We've immersed ourselves into this community. [music] 99 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:58,080 We get to be your Mr. and Mrs. Claus. Um we take part in your parades and we 100 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:04,080 really like being just good neighbors and responsible citizens. So, we would 101 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:10,640 hope and encourage the commission to think about changing the zoning so that 102 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:17,880 mixed use becomes a possibility here in Lions. Thank you for your time. 103 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,880 » Thank you. 104 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:35,600 Moving on to item number four, business items to consider. 105 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:39,839 Yes, sir. So, the first one we have up, it's a great segue from a public 106 00:09:36,959 --> 00:09:45,120 comment. Um, is about the mixed use designation. So, um, these lovely folks 107 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,399 approached us earlier in the year from what I understand about attempting to 108 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:53,920 change zoning. Um, and we were actually planning on doing a reszone as you might 109 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:58,959 have seen from the first initial draft agendas. Um, then we made the 110 00:09:57,279 --> 00:10:03,200 realization that we don't have a mixed use designation in our code. Um, and so 111 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:08,240 that's the first step in being able to reszone to a mixed use. So in the memo 112 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:13,760 you all received, it kind of gives a explanation of similar stories. um where 113 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:18,240 we have multiple buildings that are technically quoteunquote out of 114 00:10:15,279 --> 00:10:22,257 compliance because our options for reszoning are residential, commercial, 115 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:26,880 industrial, and I think one other that's [clears throat] like for a planned unit 116 00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:31,120 development. Um so there's not really a great option for places that are, you 117 00:10:29,519 --> 00:10:35,680 know, either zoned commercial and have owner operating living spaces or places 118 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:40,000 that are zoned residential and still have that same mix of business and 119 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:42,480 residential residential. Um, so what I would ask from planning commission 120 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,320 tonight is you all have a conversation about whether this is something you want 121 00:10:43,839 --> 00:10:50,079 to explore. Um, if it is at the next planning commission meeting, um, you 122 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,240 know, or if there's anything specific you want to see in a mixeduse 123 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:58,079 definition, um, we can work with the city attorney to draft something up and 124 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:02,760 get a formal recommendation to council if that's what you guys would like to 125 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,760 pursue. 126 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,360 Well, I guess I'll kick off the discussion then if that's what we're 127 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,720 after, right? >> Yep. 128 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:17,440 » Um, so I I concur that that we probably need to 129 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:24,079 have definitive usage for for those mixed uses, right? 130 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:28,399 Um, I know our current general commercial district covers 131 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:32,240 apartments on floors other than the ground floor. I'm taking this as one 132 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:35,360 single level floor. it it has a single level floor, but it 133 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:39,680 also has a lot >> has a lot and we would be utilizing both 134 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:44,160 of those areas. >> So, I know that that that that little 135 00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:46,640 caveat covers most of the area around the square that does have apartments 136 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:51,200 above it. >> So, we're good there. 137 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:57,920 Um I don't know of how many other businesses have 138 00:11:53,680 --> 00:12:02,560 that would have a need to do a multi-use with with the exception of their their 139 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:08,399 location. I do think though as we as we draft some 140 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:14,240 verbiage for it, um some things that just kind of pop in my head is different 141 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:18,399 entrances separate from the resident side from the business side to keep 142 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:22,079 things separate. You know, obviously you want to have definitive lines between 143 00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:28,160 this is our home versus this is the business side. Um I know there's 144 00:12:25,839 --> 00:12:33,279 exceptions there with daycarees, right? daycarees are very inh home daycarees 145 00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:37,519 are very regul regulated um on how big the entrance has to be and 146 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:43,760 all those types of things. So, I think if if we're going to draft a a multi-use 147 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:48,639 or a mixeduse ordinance or a or a a zone there, we 148 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:53,519 probably ought to have some some language that def defines that of this 149 00:12:51,680 --> 00:13:01,160 is the home space versus this is the living space and and the business space. 150 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Um, 151 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:11,200 outside of that, that's really the only concerns I have. Um, I don't know what 152 00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:15,519 the liability insurance side of things would be. I'm not an insurance guy, but 153 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,959 I would have a guess of if if it's a business/home 154 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,720 all in the same space. Is it a homeowner's insurance? Is it business 155 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:28,079 insurance? I can see that being complicated, especially if somebody were 156 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:32,880 fall and get hurt, walking in and out of the front door. Is it the homeowner side 157 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:38,959 or is it business side? So, I think having some definitive clarity there is 158 00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:43,600 a big deal. But thoughts? I agree with that risk with the uh you 159 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:48,959 know potential for injury or somebody you know getting hurt or whatever with 160 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:54,560 having the definitive separation between the home itself and the business. I 161 00:13:52,240 --> 00:14:01,680 think that would probably help a lot with defining that. Um, would this were 162 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:05,920 you talking about including other structures in town like existing 163 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:10,560 structures only or would we be talking about new construction? 164 00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:14,160 » I think that would be a decision for you all to make. Um, 165 00:14:12,399 --> 00:14:17,279 » yeah, cuz I think we would basically create a new zone, 166 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:22,000 » right? >> Right. We would draft that, get that 167 00:14:18,959 --> 00:14:27,279 pushed through, and then anything I mean, we could probably do a an 168 00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:30,399 adoption. I don't know if we can do that. That'd be up to the city attorney 169 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:34,160 to tell us what we can and cannot do across what already exists 170 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:39,120 » without everybody having to go through a reszoning hearing. 171 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:43,279 » Yeah. So, you can reszone districts um like as a whole or just like certain 172 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:47,680 areas. So, you can do kind of chunks at once if that um is something you guys 173 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,720 are interested in or you can kind of take it as issues come up um like this. 174 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:56,160 And >> I would take it that way. I think it 175 00:14:52,800 --> 00:15:00,800 would be better to have the individual buildings come up and ask for the 176 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:06,079 reasonzoning simply because the issue I agree I think the residential and the 177 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:11,199 business should be separate in the buildings. Um therefore I think the 178 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:17,120 planning commission should have oversight of does that exist in the 179 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:22,320 building can it exist in the building situations like that. Therefore, I don't 180 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,959 I don't think this [music] blanketing, you know, hey, these properties are okay 181 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:30,720 » because then we could still have the the code enforcement and city inspector come 182 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,839 through and say, yes, it's compliant. Uh, and then you get into the whole ADA 183 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,680 side of the things, right? If you're remodeling anything, it's got to have 184 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:42,079 ADA compliant doors and things like that. So, um, 185 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:46,000 yeah, I think it's going to have to be in eaches. 186 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:53,680 Is it is it a big enough need to create a new zone or is it just we we draft 187 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:58,880 variances for the eaches that come up with the need? 188 00:15:56,399 --> 00:16:01,040 » I think from this is my opinion so feel free to take it with a grain of salt 189 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,959 just from the perspective of administrative burden on the owners I 190 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:11,920 think having a designated zone makes it a little more clear. Um but also um you 191 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:15,920 know a variance is an option. um variances get a little hard to track 192 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,600 over the years. So, >> right, especially if we grant a variance 193 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:24,720 and say in two years they they move, they sell the building and we don't we 194 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:29,040 no longer have visibility of what what that is. So, 195 00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:32,000 » is there a precedent in in surrounding communities? 196 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,360 » Um there's a precedent in a lot of communities. I haven't looked in the 197 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:39,040 surrounding ones specifically. Um but a mixeduse designation is really common 198 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:44,079 and that's why I thought that it existed to be completely honest. Um, yeah. So, 199 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,880 » I was thinking, you know, hair hair salons. It's pretty common to have one 200 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,279 in the back of the house and have it up front. 201 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,759 » I did know about how they went about that. 202 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,519 » Of course, I'm sure you have to have a homeowner's policy plus a business 203 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:58,079 policy as far as the insurance goes. And then, of course, you have a professional 204 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,560 liability policy. >> Yeah. The entrance. I remember because 205 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:07,120 my aunt had one and she had to remodel part of her house to accommodate 206 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:11,360 » how big the entrance was, seating area, stuff like that. So, there's some 207 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:16,640 there's some weird things in there as far as regulatory guidance goes. So, 208 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:20,640 » I like the idea of having a mixed use uh as long as like Jason said, we can kind 209 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:25,439 of enforce that, make sure the business portion [music] is ADA compliant and 210 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:30,559 meets regulatory benchmarks, but I would have assumed we 211 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,200 had already had some things. I was curious about the square and of course 212 00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:36,760 he has it pulled up here, so that answers my question. 213 00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:45,720 Cassie, anything to add? 214 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:52,160 » Um, I know that we're talking about commercial buildings. Um, I would just 215 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:58,559 be aware, you know, of people saying, "Oh, we can do this um mixed use," and 216 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:02,799 then they turn they put a business in the back of their home kind of thing or 217 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,880 something like that. You know, I don't see that happen. 218 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,880 » Yeah, that's a good that's a good point. Right. and we don't want to drive people 219 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:13,360 away from retail space and and function out of their garage, right? So, it's 220 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:19,120 kind of a like you like like Craig said, we want to look at the Eges and not 221 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:23,600 blanket it just to make sure that we still encourage retail space that that 222 00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:27,440 we're going to talk about next. >> Um, 223 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,960 so yeah, that's a good point. Good point. Yeah, because that's a slippery 224 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:36,559 slope. I would suggest that we just include 225 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:42,320 existing retail design currently designated retail space 226 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:47,919 as it is. For example, the build the structure that they purchased was a 227 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:53,520 retail or storage building and they've adapted it for to a living space. 228 00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:58,320 I would suggest just doing that rather than hitting residential areas as well, 229 00:18:55,919 --> 00:19:02,000 current residential areas. Yeah, >> I think it'd be good to add the mixed 230 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,600 the mixed uh >> what I want to say 231 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:09,120 » the mixed design destination uh and then they have to each individual have to 232 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:12,480 come before us and we kind of >> I don't want to say 233 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:18,000 » send inspectors and make sure there's >> there's the ability to segregate 234 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:21,760 » control it that way rather than >> Yeah. Yep. 235 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:26,559 » And then I see there's there's three options there 236 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:32,799 between the registration and the >> Oh, for the correction 237 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:36,799 » that's ahead. Sorry. >> Well, like I said, I like the idea of 238 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,760 having a mixed designation. >> Okay. So, just to recap what I'm 239 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:45,039 hearing, we like the idea of having a mixed designation. Um, but kind of just 240 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,120 create it as an option and then if reszones need to happen, it goes through 241 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:52,160 the normal resone process. Yes. Yes. Okay. 242 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:55,120 » Yeah. That way we can we can have I don't want to say oversight, but that's 243 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:59,039 the best word for it. Oversight of who's doing what with what businesses, what 244 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,720 residences, things like that. So, >> okay. We will get something together um 245 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,320 for the next planning commission meeting. 246 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:10,000 » And if you get enough drafts, if you want to send 247 00:20:07,919 --> 00:20:13,600 that out to us, let's proofread it out. >> Absolutely. and and even if we find 248 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,600 things, maybe we even send it back say, "Hey, we tweak your add subtract [music] 249 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,679 things like that." >> Yep. 250 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,840 » Tweak those things. But I like that. >> I do have a question. Um in this 251 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:28,880 explanation, uh increase opportunities for housing 252 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,400 production, particularly in commercial corridors 253 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:37,840 where residential use are currently limited or disallowed. What's what that 254 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:42,720 does that involve? So, I think kind of the idea is that if you know there's 255 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:46,240 commercial buildings where there's an upstairs that maybe is not an apartment 256 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:50,400 or a living space, but there's potential for it to become one, having a mixeduse 257 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:54,960 designation can encourage that because it's seen as an [music] option to 258 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:57,440 pursue. Um, >> yeah. 259 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:02,880 » So, that's basically what that >> saying. I did have one question as far 260 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:09,120 as your guys' burden. If we do this mixed use uh the address like we were 261 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:13,679 talking if they resone to this mixed use designation does that mean they have to 262 00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:17,440 have two addresses one for the business and one for the residential 263 00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:20,320 I would assume. >> That's a great question. I'm not sure 264 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:24,159 but I can look into it and get back to you. 265 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,919 » That would be my guess. Yeah. legal description of each address, 266 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,559 » right? >> That would help the insurance problem, 267 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:35,280 too. >> I I just I need to do this short answer 268 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:43,200 that right now, especially for our place. We were addressing incorrectly 269 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:47,520 when we took the building and it took them about a year to get us 270 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:55,520 addressed right and there is no address that can go in between us. This one's 271 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:59,840 215 for 213 and 21. >> A 272 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:03,280 we still struggle. We can't get mail or deliveries at our place. 273 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:07,120 » Yeah. >> You can't get Amazon. You can't get 274 00:22:05,919 --> 00:22:11,200 anything. >> That was the one. Like I said, I'm sure 275 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:14,480 trying to keep them separate. Like Jason was saying, I'm sure you'll have to 276 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:18,159 there's probably a lot more to that. I'll have to go through and probably 277 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:24,240 split the property to be technically accurate that way. 278 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:30,159 205A and the 205B. >> Yeah. Or that's a great sweep. 279 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:34,080 » If we do that, how does that work for utilities [music] and things like that? 280 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:39,520 » So, that's only going to change depending on like So, we had people just 281 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:44,720 purchase another portion of the building, but there's already [music] 282 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:49,679 like there's two hookups for water. So, in order for that to be considered one, 283 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:53,280 they would have to combine it. But the other 284 00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:58,400 that would fall under another thing because you would have to classify it 285 00:22:55,120 --> 00:23:03,280 different. But I know it also is done by pipe and um yeah y'all that would be 286 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:09,120 another thing you would have to consider because the commercial rate is different 287 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:12,080 than the residential rate. And then um yeah that's definitely something y'all 288 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,960 would have to consider and probably put in there as well. 289 00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:18,360 » So would that just be the responsibility of the owner? 290 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,480 I think I think we kind of need to do some research. Like I said, I like the 291 00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:27,520 idea. There's just logistically I don't know on your guys' staff going [music] 292 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:32,400 through and >> yeah, I think the utility RFI is a is a 293 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:37,039 big rock that we got to figure out what that utility piece looks like. Not I 294 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:40,240 mean gas, electric, [music] water, all that. 295 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:44,799 » Um trash service another thing to look at. 296 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:48,720 » We don't get that offer trash. 297 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:51,960 » Yeah. We take care of that all the commercial. 298 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,559 » Yep. Okay. We will look into those things and get you some more information 299 00:23:57,086 --> 00:24:02,080 [music] on them. >> But yeah, I like the idea of mixed use. 300 00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:06,480 I think we're all in clearance there. So, I think going forward with drafting 301 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:11,400 that up and working that through the pipeline. 302 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:11,400 » Yes, sir. Great. 303 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:20,799 » Any other discussion or comments before you move on? Very 304 00:24:17,679 --> 00:24:25,600 good. We'll move on to commercial vacancy information. 305 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:31,200 » Yeah. So, this is something I was asked to look at um when I first started at 306 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:33,840 the city a couple months ago um to try to think of some ways to address 307 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:39,279 vacancies [clears throat] in commercial buildings um and try to think of ways to 308 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:44,720 encourage um non- vacancies. So, filling those vacancies. Um, so there's a lot of 309 00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:49,440 different cities that do this in a lot of different ways. So this is a very 310 00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:53,919 scalable [music] thing. Um, and the options that are presented in the memo 311 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:57,919 kind of reflect that. So option one is kind of a lightweight registration where 312 00:24:55,919 --> 00:25:03,039 we just require after a certain number of days that um, commercial buildings 313 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:08,400 that are vacant register with us. Um, that's a way for us to just track and 314 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:14,960 know. Um, and yeah, that's pretty much it. Um, so 315 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:20,400 option A is good for kind of an initial thing. Um, it doesn't give you a ton of 316 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,919 incentive. Um, when the goal of something like this is to incentivize 317 00:25:21,919 --> 00:25:29,360 property owners or managers to fill vacant fill vacancies. Um, option two is 318 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:36,159 kind of a middle ground where it's a registration plus a fee. Um, so that fee 319 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:41,360 can be incremental, um, it can escalate, it can be kind of whatever you want. Um, 320 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,279 but it does kind of find that middle ground of creating a financial incentive 321 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:53,440 for folks to fill the vacancies in their buildings, um, while still, um, yeah, 322 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:59,679 not going super overboard. Um, [music] option three is pretty comprehensive. Um 323 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:06,799 and that adds mechanisms where if the vacancy 324 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:12,159 isn't filled, then the city um requires formal action to be taken to either 325 00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:16,720 acquire the property into a land bank um to rehabilitate the properties. Um like 326 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:20,080 I said, that one's pretty extreme, but it is done in certain places. So, I just 327 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,400 wanted to give you guys all the options and kind of show you how it can scale 328 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:31,760 from just a simple registry that the city keeps um to something all the way 329 00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:37,360 through more direct action. Um so, yeah, I would love thoughts, discussion, um 330 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:44,000 any other additional ideas on how we could encourage um lower rates of 331 00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:48,320 vacancy in commercial buildings. I reading through this, I kind of liked 332 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:51,600 option B. Honestly, I think it's a good idea. 333 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,000 » The registration, will that be something? Let's say you have a 334 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,360 prospective business that wants to come to town, they come here to city hall, 335 00:26:55,919 --> 00:26:59,600 they say, "Hey, you know, do you know of any properties?" And you just have a 336 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,720 list. >> Yeah. And that's also kind of a way you 337 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:06,799 can incentivize it, too, is kind of turn it into an advertising list for those 338 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:12,120 owners. You can say, "We'll provide this to people who come to ask us for 339 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,120 business spaces." So, 340 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:22,480 » I like option B. I I I don't know that you'll get anybody to do it unless you 341 00:27:18,159 --> 00:27:25,760 impose some sort of a fee. Of course, you know, nobody likes paying 342 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:30,559 fees, but I I think that's a good, like I said, balance balanced deterrence, 343 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:35,279 but it is still manageable for the staff you have. Yeah, because this is going 344 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,480 back a couple I think when when Ed was still here, we talked about figuring 345 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,480 something out and then Troy and I talked about it just a few weeks ago also. So, 346 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:47,679 it's been some we've been trying to figure out how to do it. Other towns 347 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:52,080 have been doing it successfully. So, um yeah, I think option B, I think if we 348 00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:58,080 were just going to try it out, see how it tastes, go with hay. Um but I think 349 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:02,960 we're it's going to be successful. I feel good about it, but we have to make 350 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:07,279 it I don't want to say painful, but uncomfortable to where the business 351 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:12,320 owners, I'm sorry, the building owners that own the property [music] are 352 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:16,559 incentivized to to do something with it, not just sit on it because they can't. 353 00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:21,520 » As a preliminary idea, you said after a few days, they they need to register it 354 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:27,679 after a few days of vacancy. When are we thinking as far as imposing fees? 355 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,600 » That differs. That would be up to you all's perview and a recommendation. I've 356 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:36,000 seen everything from, you know, after, you know, you have to register after 30 357 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:41,279 to 60 days and then fees [music] start incurring after a year. Um, I've seen 358 00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:46,960 like an initial fee that you have to pay and then do it. I've seen six months. 359 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:52,399 So, it's really all over. >> Do we have records of who owns all of 360 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:56,520 the vacant buildings around the square? >> Yes, we should. 361 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:04,480 I know there's several buildings that have been empty since I've lived here 362 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:09,360 for 12 years. Um, and some of them need some serious rehab. So, how would we go 363 00:29:06,905 --> 00:29:13,840 [music] about holding accountable those owners to get those buildings back up to 364 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:18,520 code so that they can be on a list and ready for [music] the next tenant? 365 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:24,880 Well, and I know there's some of those that have that have received grants and 366 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,559 different things to improve and make updates and 367 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:32,640 uh make those buildings suitable and just haven't really been held to the 368 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:36,640 fire to to finish those things. So, I think this is part of that of 369 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,840 incentivizing them to actually go through with it. Um, and if need be, 370 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:46,240 penalize them at some point because we could obviously escalate to that point 371 00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:50,159 to where we can penalize them. Say, "No, you have to do something with it because 372 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:55,840 it's, you know, it's a blight on the community. It's a big empty hole and the 373 00:29:53,679 --> 00:30:01,600 once once was a beautiful part of the town and it's just an empty hole. So, 374 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:05,279 but yeah, I'm in favor of B. Um, I think we need to kind of tweak it a little 375 00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:10,320 bit. Figure out what the fee schedule might look like with the registration 376 00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:15,760 process. Uh, what's the grace period? I mean, if we adopt it, are we going to 377 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:20,640 say 90 days, 120 days? Are we going to send out notices to 378 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:24,720 everybody? Probably. Um, but I think I think definitely want to 379 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:30,240 look into it. Worst case scenario, I see on here the escalating fee schedule and 380 00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:34,000 say it caps out of 400. Is there any like I said worst case scenario, let's 381 00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:38,399 say that the the owner just says, "Hey, you know, I'll just I'll just pay $400 a 382 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:43,279 month." Is there anything else that we say, "Hey, you have a year or 383 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,360 whatever or else?" >> Yeah. And that's where the option three 384 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,760 kind of comes or option C. Um that's kind of where people tend to take those 385 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,159 more aggressive approaches of transferring it into a land bank. Um 386 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:58,080 that is pretty aggressive and it would take a lot of staff time. Um, so I'm not 387 00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:01,360 sure if we have the capacity for that step quite yet, but it could definitely 388 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,559 be something you revisit if we see that not being effective. 389 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:08,720 » I was just thinking, yeah, if you do option B and and like I said, I'm sure 390 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,600 this wouldn't happen, but if somebody just went three or four years, they're 391 00:31:10,399 --> 00:31:15,120 just like, okay, I'm just going to pay the $400 a month. 392 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:19,120 » Is it monthly or is it annual >> or whatever whatever it may be, 393 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:23,520 » whatever you decide. >> I think we can make this whatever we 394 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:27,480 want. Whether it be monthly, yearly, the dollar amount can be whatever. 395 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:36,320 » Okay. Well, um, given this discussion, what I'm hearing is I should draft 396 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,600 something similar to option B, bring it back to you all to make a recommendation 397 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,519 for things like days, time [music] frames, amounts, um, that you can then 398 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,640 recommend to council. >> Yeah. 399 00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:48,320 » Sound plan? >> Yes. 400 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:53,440 » Yeah. And I think I think we I don't want to put it I feel like a $400 cap is 401 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:58,720 is pretty cheap. >> Agreed. 402 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:02,799 » Well, annually because I don't want to 403 00:32:00,399 --> 00:32:07,760 penalize somebody monthly. But I think after the first year, [music] we can 404 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,840 really start to ramp that up unless they show like, hey, I'm actively trying to 405 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:17,360 recruit a business, right, >> or something, a tenant to take it over. 406 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,159 Um, and then like you said, we want to 407 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,360 combat that. Well, I'll just I'll just give you I'll just give you a thousand 408 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,799 bucks and that'll get me over for the next five years. 409 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,320 » Right. >> Cool. See you later. 410 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,720 » Right. >> And then they don't think about it 411 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:34,320 again. That's that's the [music] probably the approach. 412 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:40,559 » I like the complete certain monthly. I like the monthly as well because it 413 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:46,559 » keeps it on top of the priority. >> As a year goes by, it gets more and more 414 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:51,919 aggressive both in dollar amount and frequency. So like first year is a year, 415 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,960 next year is every quarter and it's double [music] what the first year was 416 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,960 for example >> and then it's every month the following 417 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,679 year >> just to 418 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:10,320 » put some pressure down on the on the company or the uh the property owner to 419 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:12,720 get something in there to or to sell it, >> right? 420 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:16,960 » Yeah. I like the idea of putting a little pressure on them just to get some 421 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:23,600 something out of them, whether it's, you know, put it up for sale, remodel it so 422 00:33:19,679 --> 00:33:28,799 it can be usable or rented. Um, and just, you know, cuz like like you guys 423 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:33,039 said, you know, 400 bucks to um some people, 424 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:38,960 » that's it'll just stay the same and nothing will ever happen with it. Right. 425 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:43,039 » I I would suggest annually simply because the city is going to have to 426 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:47,360 administer ad minister this and having to do it monthly is going to be a pretty 427 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,880 good burden on the city. What if we met in the middle and did like the first 428 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:56,240 year was an annual thing and then after the first year of vacancy after the 429 00:33:52,399 --> 00:34:02,320 registration then it's six months and then after that second year then it's 430 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,960 every other month or or even monthly at that point say hey now the clock's 431 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:10,720 ticking and then we've just continue to compound 432 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:15,119 the fees and they just continue to compound until we'll either show that 433 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:20,720 they're actively recruiting making efforts to keep business. Uh I know the 434 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:26,320 the cost of some of those buildings is what keeps a lot of the businesses out 435 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:31,280 of them. Um so I think that'll help combat that a little bit too. Property 436 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:35,440 owner will be incentivized to okay, I'm going to keep this guy in here for a 437 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:39,359 cheaper price other than paying >> right 438 00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:46,399 » yearly and annual monthly fees. So I think go with option B with with some 439 00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:48,960 option B with more options. Got it. >> Further f Yeah, it's recommendation. 440 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:53,404 » Recommendation. >> Okay. All right. Well, I'll get that 441 00:34:50,879 --> 00:34:56,599 together for the next one. Um, yeah. [music] Great. 442 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:06,880 » Anything else? Anything that comments, questions? 443 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:12,400 » We're about thousand tonight. So, our next date and time will be 444 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:15,119 December 18th, 6 p.m. And hopefully we'll have some more 445 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:21,400 things to discuss. So, put that on your calendars. I'll call Josh and chastise 446 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,400 him for not being here. 447 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,760 » With that, do I have a motion for journ 448 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,320 discussion, questions? >> All in favor say I. 449 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,119 » I. All opposed. >> We're ajourned. 450 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,040 We're >> coming. 67. 451 00:35:37,359 --> 00:35:42,440 » Thank you for being here, y'all. >> Appreciate you. 452 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:51,000 » That's not >> for national meeting. 453 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,000 » Oh, for national meeting. 454 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,880 » Did you have one? We didn't have a corn. That was real fast.