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Good evening and welcome to the May 26th
meeting of the Madison, Indiana Historic

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District Review Board. My name is Chris
Cody and let the record show that board

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members Bill Jewell, Jared Anderson, and
Happy Smith are present along with city

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staff Brenna Hailey and we have a new
member of city staff who I believe is

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going to introduce himself.

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» Good evening. My name is Chris Layton.
I'm the new building and mint inspector

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and happy to be here. I'll help out any
way

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Thank you.
>> Thank you very much, Mr. Layton.

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We will conduct this meeting by having
applicants come forward to the podium.

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City staff will then review their
application as it was submitted to the

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city. Then applicants will have the
opportunity to address the board.

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Following the applicant's presentation,
board members may ask the applicant

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questions, then the applicant will be
dismissed.

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The public will then have the
opportunity to comment on the

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application, following which the board
will deliberate and vote.

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Please remember that all applications
are evaluated solely for their

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compliance with the Madison Historic
District Design Guidelines and restrict

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your comments to relevant matters.
Thank you very much, everyone, for being

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here this evening. Brenna, please begin
with the first application.

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» So, our first application on the agenda
is 1229

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West Main Street and that one remains on
the table. So, our next one

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will be City of Madison project,
a request to build an amphitheater in

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Bicentennial Park
at 101 East Second Street.

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» Good evening,
board. My name is Tony Steinheart,

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deputy mayor and director of economic
and redevelopment. Tonight we're here

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and happy to present to you
a project that was in the Madison

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Destination Plan
and has received great support from our

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region through our regional development
commission Um, and uh,

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has been receiving uh, good comments
from the committee that was put together

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uh, to review both the uh,
design as well as the needs for the

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professional uh, tours.
So, the goal of this project was to

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develop a amphitheater uh, for 2026
standards and expectations for both

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patrons and performers and to enhance
the accessibility and safety uh, of the

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park for all.
Um, we wanted to develop

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» Let the record show that uh, board
member Jed Skillman has now joined us.

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» We um,
we wanted to develop uh,

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a a theater that was flexible
uh, for both local as well as the

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national acts
and we wanted to provide a facility that

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was as transparent as possible
um, for the neighborhood and the

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citizens of Madison on the other 340
days, pick a number, three whatever

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number that is, uh, when it's not in
use. This this is intended to be a park

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that it's engaging uh, throughout the
entire year. We think the design will

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open up new opportunities for uses in
the park um,

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as well as give amenities to again those
patrons and performers that

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expect in 2026 for for uh, acts. So, at
this time I'd like to introduce

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um,
uh, Jeff De Smith to talk through uh,

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our design work from Access Studio Axis
and answer any questions you have on

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» Good evening.

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Make sure this comes up here.

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» Now it's just not
going over.

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Like that.
>> It's the connected piece.

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Let's see.

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» Yeah, will the gray one reach?

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Oh, we're on wheels. There we go.
Perfect.

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Yeah.
This is where it should go.

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Okay, now it's just pushed in.
Okay, let's see.

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Yep.

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There we go. Perfect.
All right.

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Thanks. Uh my name's Jeff De Smith uh
with Studio Axis in in Indianapolis. I'm

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happy to be here to kind of walk you
guys through um where we're at from a

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current design standpoint um on both the
uh stage frame and the um accessory

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building and then more than happy to to
get your uh

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feedback and comments.
Um so just quickly to kind of walk you

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through from an orientation standpoint
um the updated site. So, one of the

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things that we really looked at
um in kind of reimagining what this

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would be is how can we provide um some
additional

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features for the park, you know,
upgraded restrooms,

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um you you upgraded uh electric and
audio visual

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infrastructure for the actual stage
to really enhance what the city can do

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from a like, you know, weekly and
monthly use standpoint without the need

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to kind of rent and bring in a bunch of
extra equipment. So,

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part of that
research was really looking at how do we

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center the stage building,
get it closer to where a future building

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might want to go.
And in looking through all of those

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different aspects,
it ended up to where kind of centering

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the kind of stage and the main viewing
area kind of between Central and and and

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and West seemed to be the the right move
so that we could keep a building that

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was still close enough to be able to
provide that infrastructure,

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but a long West Street out of the kind
of visual line of sight

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that you would see from First Street or
even from Vaughn Drive if you're looking

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back back up.
Um,

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so in this site plan here, you'll see
that there's a revised kind of parking

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layout up here at the north end.
One of the things that this does is kind

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of reestablish that neighborhood edge.
This is one of this is the only block

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along First where the sidewalk is not
continuous from corner to corner.

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Parking here right now is front end
directly from the street. So, that was

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one of the the kind of items that we
looked at. The other thing that this

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will do is it will allow us to get
parking kind of inside what we would

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consider a a secure kind of ticketed
zone for larger events, but also give

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the ability to to park
food trucks and those sorts of things

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off of the street so they have less
impact from a pedestrian standpoint for

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for other events.
As part of this, we would then

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reestablish kind of the the brick
kind of pilaster system that is

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currently around the park.
And the current concept essentially

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reuses about 75% of the existing
pilasters that are there in their exact

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locations. And then where we have to
make adjustments from a sidewalk

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standpoint or a parking standpoint, we
would essentially rebuild and kind of

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duplicate those to kind of fill that in
to connect it all the way around the

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entirety of the park.
Um

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as we work our way down from north to
south, you'll you'll see some kind of

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open lawn areas.
The main accessory building here on the

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side.
This has a couple of things. It has area

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for concessions, an area for
storage and janitorial,

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a much larger restroom block. There's
right now eight fixtures per side in the

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main block and that is before you count
in a family restroom and then two

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additional
handicap accessible restrooms. As well

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as storage space
for

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things that the city might own.
Um

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And then also a large electrical and AV
room component to kind of support

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everything that's that's happening on
there.

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And then as you work your way toward the
south, then you have the actual stage

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itself.
Actually has a similar from a concrete

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pad standpoint a similar footprint to
what's actually down there now.

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Just reorientated. Um
to kind of be on this central axis.

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So as I go to the stage frame, so this
would be the the front or the north

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elevation.
One of the things that we kept hearing

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when we were looking at all the comments
kind of discussing with all the groups

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is how do we provide something down here
that meets and checks these boxes from a

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performance standpoint, but also doesn't
block the view of the river, right?

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Because as
Tony mentioned and is what has been on

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the forefront of our thought the entire
time is

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you know, what is this going to be the
other 340 days of the year that it's not

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a performance event, right?
So what this does is accomplish a

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few things. So, we've raised the actual
stage elevation itself is at 5 ft

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to get that up so that groups don't have
to bring in a separate stage.

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It provides easy load-in and load-out
from an access standpoint. And then

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we've paired that with what we're kind
of calling a stage frame or a proscenium

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that allows
groups to hang speakers. There'll be

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permanent speakers and lighting that the
city can use.

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Or that other smaller events,
whether it's a

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a church or a graduation or
movie night in the park,

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everything will be there to for them to
just come in and use those those those

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those items.
From a material standpoint, we've really

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tried to keep it simple
and try to kind of mimic and respect

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what's around there. So, really there's
three main materials on here. It's

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brick,
some limestone accents, and then steel.

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I did bring material samples for for
what we're currently thinking.

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So, essentially two different types of
brick. There's both a kind of red, kind

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of very
very

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standard kind of terracotta color,
as well as more of an almond, which is

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what we're using as kind of the what you
would consider the water table or the

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lower section.
You'll see in the renderings there's

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kind of a two-tone look. And one of the
things that we're considering right now

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is that instead of doing an alternate
color of brick is using a secondary

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texture
as the as the kind of accent piece for

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some of those areas.
You'll also see that the specific size.

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So, from a constructability standpoint,
one of the things that we are trying to

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really think about is cost. And what
this is is a full

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it's a clay product, so an actual brick
product, but it's a structural brick Um,

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that we don't have to do a CMU wall with
a brick veneer.

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Um, so it it eliminates the need to have
to do a cavity wall system, which saves

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cost. So, essentially all of these walls
around the exterior would be the

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structural walls for that. Um, and then
we would have a a a steel kind of gable

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frame at the top. This one is a little
bit elongated, so it feels more like

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from a distance, it feels more like a
Norman from a uh from a length

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standpoint. So, it's 4 by either, you
know, 6, 8, 10, 12 deep depending on the

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structural needs, and then 16 in long.
Um, so along this kind of north stage

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view, you'll see that we have brick. Um,
there are some some some accents here,

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as well as kind of a a limestone colored
uh

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what I like to call like a a a tiered
step seating.

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Um,
and then the steel stage frame that

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comes up and around the um top.
The detailing for the stage frame,

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um and the detailing for the steel
that's on the building, um is really the

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the effort will be there to really try
to use to make it look more like, you

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know, actual like rivets, gusset plates,
those type of things, not just simple

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welds,
um

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to really kind of tie into some of the
more uh kind of older and historic steel

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kind of uh frame structures and crane
structures and

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uh
bridges that are in Madison.

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This is a view from the from the side,
so you'll see here um as well as the

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main stage frame, there's a secondary
piece here

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um that kind of protrudes from the from
the back from a structural standpoint.

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Um, it provides some additional anchor
points.

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And then also, there is a canopy out of
the front.

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Um, obviously a canopy of this height is
not necessarily intended to provide

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rain, you know, cover, but what this
does is it gets additional rigging

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points for the um the uh
performers um and the and those acts, as

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well as permanent lighting and speaker
hang locations

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that are that will be out there 365 days
a year for the city's use.

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Next, I'll go to the building.
So, we have both a north and the east

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view here. So, this would be
looking from the north um

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main things that you'll see here again,
there's a the terracotta one here is the

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one that you see in the center.
And that that alternate kind of striped

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or raked texture, as well as the
lighter color, which is really more

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focused as kind of at that traditional
limestone or cobblestone base.

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Um
And then limestone accents for the

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window sills,
as well as aluminum storefront and then

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a standing seam metal roof.
You'll see that the the site does step

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quite a bit. One of the interesting
things here is we essentially have three

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different grade levels. So,
as the building

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kind of steps down the the the hill,
you'll have storage and concessions up

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here on the north end. The entrance to
the restroom lock is here at the at the

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middle.
And then as you get down to the bottom

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side, storage and the two additional
restrooms down here at the lower plaza

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level.
Um, right now we're again just using

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brick and then kind of these steel
accents that extend out both a kind of

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10-ft
completely covered canopy and then that

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steel structure is then extrapolated out
to form kind of a shade structure

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on on both the north and south ends.

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Obviously, the west view looks very very
very similar.

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You can see against the south view.
Essentially, this is just kind of a

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tucked in vestibule for both storage
doors and the two

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unisex restroom doors. Um, and then
providing kind of these kind of stripped

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more transom windows
um both

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uh along both the long elevation sides
to get natural light into

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uh the restroom blocks.

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Have a couple views here from uh
exterior standpoint. You can see this is

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that south end as you're kind of coming
from the stage walking walking up.

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Um
I again, a lot of the the building

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placement, the different um levels for
the plazas and those sorts of things is

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really all centered around
accessibility, right? How can we make

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sure that um the entirety of this park
is is is accessible,

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um which it isn't currently today.

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This is more from the uh kind of top
plaza area. You can kind of see the the

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the length of the building as it goes
down the side, and then the actual stage

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frame here off to the right.

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And then we have a view of uh
you know, a

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00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:26,320
sample view of just a small uh
performance event. Um and again, one of

219
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:31,040
them where all of the infrastructure
that's that's up here would be owned by

220
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:36,240
the city or a permanent piece, um and it
wouldn't have to be brought in as

221
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:39,440
compared to something like a Unbroken
Circle or a Rooster Tail where they

222
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,600
would have a much
uh kind of larger package from a you

223
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,920
know, the current things that they rent
now. They would bring out and be able to

224
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:50,160
place on that stage and have that that
stage platform ready for them.

225
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:55,839
So, I'm more than happy to take any
questions that you have.

226
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,920
» Thank you. Are there any questions for
the applicant from the board?

227
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:09,120
» Out of your curiosity here, when you on
the stage with the the

228
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,240
uh
structure for lighting,

229
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:17,199
» Yes.
>> you know, in you got your cursor right

230
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:20,520
up at I'm talking about. From front to
back of that structure, how how wide is

231
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,199
that?
>> The actual footprint of the physical

232
00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:28,840
stage itself?
>> No, the the the lighting grid.

233
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:33,800
» Oh, here at the top. Yeah, so from the
actual stage frame piece itself, it

234
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,960
extends out about 15 ft. If you were
looking at it from kind of this side,

235
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,960
from the edge here out to this kind of
outer lip is about 15 ft.

236
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:46,120
» So, it's 15 ft from the front of the the
awning that hangs out.

237
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:49,720
What about to the back of that uh
to right there. What is that?

238
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,920
» roughly the same. So, that that kind of
total depth from here to here is roughly

239
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,000
30 30 30 ft.
>> Okay.

240
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:03,440
And then the
the height is 50 ft to the top.

241
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,360
» Yeah, so 50 ft to the top. So, if we
were looking at it, obviously the zero

242
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:12,400
elevation right at the actual lower
plaza, 5 ft to the top of the stage. The

243
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:17,480
rigging height or kind of the the lowest
portion of this proscenium arch would be

244
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:22,160
40 ft from grade or 35 ft from the
actual stage proper. And then the the

245
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:25,880
top of the structure is roughly 50 ft.
>> Okay.

246
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:29,240
Uh did you consult with any stage
lighting people when you were

247
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:32,920
» yes, so we have um Theater Projects,
which is a um

248
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:35,640
a a stage
>> Okay.

249
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:40,120
» consultant. And we're working with with
them on all of the details for stage

250
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,320
lighting, sound, all the electrical and
AV requirements, all of that.

251
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:49,760
» Did anybody mention that you may want
light out in front of the stage? I mean,

252
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,480
off to the side, but
>> Yeah, so there there are a couple of

253
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:57,240
different ways that that those things
are being considered, whether it's um

254
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,960
having, you know, lighting very far out
of the very edge of that canopy itself.

255
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,600
Um
>> No, I'm talking about like

256
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:09,040
from the front of the stage
50 ft out, 60 ft out.

257
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:13,560
» Or or the op- the opportunity for them
to either bring in either you know,

258
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:16,520
temporary or you know, like uh pole
mounted additional lighting from a front

259
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,560
artist standpoint.
>> Right.

260
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,400
So, that's that's all been planned for.
>> Correct. Yeah, that's Yeah, we're we're

261
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,800
currently within
the

262
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,040
design stages to work through all of
those details.

263
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,040
» Got you.

264
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,160
Thank you, Jed. Are there any other
questions from the board?

265
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,240
» Uh the
>> Go ahead.

266
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,760
» The um the current bathroom building is
going to go away and this new bathroom

267
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,760
building is coming in in its place.
>> That's correct. Yes.

268
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,320
» And uh what How do they compare in size,
the old bathroom building versus the new

269
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,480
bathroom building?
>> Yeah, so I believe, correct if I'm

270
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:53,440
wrong, the existing restroom building
has four restrooms per side.

271
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:57,680
Yeah, so we're essentially more than
doubling the existing capacity. This has

272
00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,800
eight per side for the main blocks and
then there's a family restroom and then

273
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,920
two additional
um two additional unisex restrooms that

274
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:08,680
are on the uh south plaza.
>> So, at least twice the size of the old

275
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,120
building, maybe more?
>> I would say from a footprint standpoint,

276
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,960
yes.
Um one of the key considerations in

277
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:20,000
working through all of this is providing
the permanent audio visual and

278
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:24,560
electrical components that are out of
the floodway. So, the current building,

279
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:29,120
where it sits, it sits about halfway
within the floodway and the other half

280
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,720
is is within the flood plain. Um
and so, one of the main considerations

281
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:36,760
here is that we have to get the building
far enough to the north that we can

282
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:42,600
provide all of this permanent electrical
and audio visual equipment um without

283
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,600
the risk of it being flooded.

284
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,120
Yeah, and I I think, you know, same
thing for the stage, right? So, you

285
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,800
know, all of the
We've received all the kind of the the

286
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,600
artist riders, which are the the the
technical requirements that all they

287
00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:02,720
have from both Unbroken Circle and from
Rooster Tail, and then also our um

288
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:07,120
our theater consultant has been has you
know, has hundreds of of of riders that

289
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:11,560
they can go back and and kind of view
and reference on um to really make sure

290
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:15,760
that the electrical requirements, the
audio-visual requirements,

291
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,800
all of that stuff is is taken care of so
that there's there's not anything

292
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,320
missing when kind of the the first act
shows up.

293
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:28,240
» Thank you. Are there any additional
questions from the board?

294
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:35,520
Uh thank you very much.
Yeah, you may be seated. Do we have any

295
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,520
comments from the public?

296
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,000
» You want me to unplug and take this off
or you want me to leave it

297
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,920
» let's see. It sounds like we don't have
any comments from the public, so

298
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,400
uh
you can have a seat or stand there if

299
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,560
you'd like. It's now time for the board
to deliberate.

300
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:53,920
Um
I for one

301
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:57,880
am incredibly grateful to the city for
pursuing this project and for bringing

302
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:04,560
this
um excellent upgrade to us. It is not an

303
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:09,920
easy thing to develop projects of this
scale and given our city's status as

304
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:14,160
Indiana's music city, I think that um
upgrades to this park and the building

305
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:18,680
of this amphitheater are very welcome
and appropriate. Um

306
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:23,000
I don't want to monopolize the
conversation. Do any other board members

307
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:26,680
want to chime in? Um you know, I for one
think that this is a very

308
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:29,360
well-thought-out, extensively studied
proposal.

309
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:37,320
» I really like how it's see-through. We
can see the river through this stage and

310
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,120
I think that's a real important thing.
That river is a big thing to our

311
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:46,600
community and to block it off, I think
would be a a mistake. I think you did a

312
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,600
great job on design.

313
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,800
» Any other comments from the board? Does
anyone have any concerns about it? I

314
00:22:53,960 --> 00:23:00,800
mean, the only concern that I have right
now is that we have non-ADA accessible

315
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,160
facilities and uh things are getting
flooded, so I think this is actually

316
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,240
fixing concerns that I have about what's
going on down there.

317
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:15,560
Well, if there's no further discussion
to be had, let's uh let's have a roll

318
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:18,960
call vote for this one, Brenna.
I Well, first I need a motion.

319
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:27,120
» I move that we
grant a COA to the city of Madison based

320
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:30,560
on the preceding uh
discussions.

321
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,360
» Do we have a second?
>> I'll second it.

322
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,800
» Okay, Chris Cody.
>> Approve.

323
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,200
» Abby Smith.
>> Approve.

324
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,680
» Phil Jewel.
>> Approve.

325
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,000
» Jared Anderson.
>> Approve.

326
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,600
» Jed Skillman.
>> Approve.

327
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:49,880
» Thank you very much.
>> While I've got you real quick, um we

328
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,560
need to approve the minutes from the
last meeting.

329
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,200
» Oh. We should have handled that up
front. Okay.

330
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,160
» So
>> So, do I have a motion to Has everyone

331
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,200
reviewed the minutes from the last
meeting and Does anyone have a motion

332
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,520
that they can put on the table to
approve them?

333
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,720
» I have a motion to approve the minutes
of last month's meeting.

334
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,280
» I second that.
>> All right, all those in favor? I.

335
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:14,080
» I.
>> Any opposed? None.

336
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:18,080
Okay, what's the next application,
Brenna?

337
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:22,320
» Next up is 820 Walnut Street. Um
the main structure here is a

338
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:27,760
contributing structure, a federal style
built in 1840, and this request is to

339
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,880
place a 10 by 20 utility shed at the
rear of the property.

340
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,560
» Thank you very much.

341
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,520
» Okay. Um Brenda, was a site plan
submitted with the application to show

342
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:37,680
where the shed will go on the property?
>> This is all that we have. Um

343
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:42,360
we do not have one that has changed with
the

344
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,360
the not 14 ft.

345
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:57,160
So, that has been extended down.
>> So, we don't have a drawing that

346
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,600
reflects an accurate location of this.
>> We do not.

347
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:06,240
» That's going to be That's a That's
challenging. Um

348
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:13,560
So, can you indicate on this image
where, roughly in relation to the front

349
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:18,000
building, 14 ft off, as you're
describing it, is, and where the shed

350
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,000
will be placed?

351
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,960
Mhm.

352
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:35,200
So, can you I just want to have
something indicated on the record that

353
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:38,920
we saw where on this image
the building's going to be placed?

354
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:50,040
Okay, right where that
black blob is.

355
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,120
» And that's what you said, 14 ft back
from the alley?

356
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,240
» 14 ft
off the sidewalk.

357
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,560
» Okay.
>> And then

358
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,240
So, you're centering it on your property
in the back. Yeah.

359
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:18,880
All right.
>> Thank you for that description. That

360
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:23,200
that helps given that we we don't have a
site plan. On the sheet of shed options

361
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:27,120
that you showed, is there one in
particular that you picked out from a a

362
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,440
design standpoint? Are there just three
different ones?

363
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,280
That one? Okay.
>> On the left.

364
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,320
» Okay.
I just

365
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,760
» What siding and uh roofing are you going
to put on have them put on this?

366
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,560
» Thank you. Are there any more questions
for the applicant from the board?

367
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,880
Thank you. Is there any public comment?

368
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,160
All right. Hearing none, let's begin
board deliberation.

369
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,280
Um
the application's obviously deficient in

370
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:40,200
terms of what was submitted. It would be
really helpful to have a site plan so we

371
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,800
don't have to go through the exercise
that we just did, but I do feel as

372
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:48,440
though the applicant has now accurately
described on the record where the

373
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:52,800
building will be located um and
identified exactly which one he wants to

374
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:57,600
build, and I don't have a problem either
with the siding or the design.

375
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,880
» I like that the applicant talked to the
neighbor and has taken the traffic

376
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,800
pattern and the truck drivers into
consideration.

377
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:11,520
» I agree with both of you.
>> We're usually very

378
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:17,160
concerned about having site plans, but
we all looked at the property, and this

379
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:21,000
being a prefabricated shed,
if there's a problem, you can pick it up

380
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:26,120
and move it a couple feet, right?
There's no reason you can't do that. So,

381
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,120
I'm okay with it.
>> Does anyone have any concerns about this

382
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,800
application?
>> I do.

383
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,120
Um
I'm concerned about your roofing and

384
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:39,960
about the siding that's on it. Um
the roofing looks like it is uh probably

385
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:45,000
drawn as barn siding, basically, and
you'd have T1-11 siding on the building,

386
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,640
at least that's how it's drawn. Um is
there any chance that you could convince

387
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:55,000
these folks to put a standing seam roof
on like we we do on other uh properties,

388
00:29:51,760 --> 00:30:00,160
and possibly a lap siding?
Any chance of that?

389
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,920
Yeah, if you'd like to come up, please.
>> I can check that.

390
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,560
» Right, but it's a barn siding roof, and

391
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:17,120
you don't see a barn siding necessarily
as being all that appropriate.

392
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:26,160
» Okay, so uh
what are you suggesting?

393
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,600
» Um a standing seam roof, and they're
they're readily available. A lot of them

394
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:35,320
are going into town now,
and uh say

395
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:41,640
HP or LP uh smart siding, something like
that, a lap siding that would have more

396
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:45,200
of the feel of the historic area.
>> I I can look into it.

397
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:49,080
» Mhm.
>> Yeah, Bill, that's a really good catch

398
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:53,360
on the roof materials. I think that that
would be an an easy change

399
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:57,320
that would make a big difference.
>> Should

400
00:30:54,240 --> 00:31:01,680
this be conditional on that?
>> Well, that's that's for the board to

401
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,680
discuss.

402
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:10,040
Yeah, I I that I think the question is
whether they're those are both excellent

403
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:14,760
suggestions, Bill, and and
very correct points.

404
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:18,120
Um I guess the question is whether
this could be a conditional approval or

405
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:23,160
an approval with them as mere
suggestions.

406
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,160
How does the rest of the board feel?

407
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:31,120
» I I would be concerned solely because
these are

408
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,720
pre-constructed buildings, so I'm not
sure

409
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,880
I'm not sure these people are going to
go out of their way to put a standing

410
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,800
seam
Um

411
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,760
I
Yeah.

412
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,280
» I don't know why they would have a
problem with the roof. You know, they're

413
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:50,280
going to put metal on one way or
another, standing seam, barn roof, all

414
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:54,080
goes on the same way. I could uh deal
with it if we did have a standing seam

415
00:31:52,080 --> 00:32:00,280
roof, and I could probably live with a
T1-11 pattern siding because it is a a

416
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,680
shed and then in the back.
Um

417
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,640
» That seems like a good compromise, and I
do think that the roof is going to be

418
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:11,040
more significant in terms of the
material affecting the overall

419
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,040
appearance.

420
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,920
Would anyone be willing to make a motion
to that effect?

421
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:25,840
» I didn't bring my cheat sheet.
>> So, based on the the the preceding

422
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:34,320
discussion,
we issue a COA for the property

423
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:37,400
at What is it?
>> 820 Walnut.

424
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,240
» 820 Walnut,
uh

425
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,080
conditional
on a standing seam roof.

426
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:49,040
And what kind of siding did you say?
>> Uh stock T1-11.

427
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:53,200
» Stock T1-11 siding.
Do I hear a second?

428
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,200
» I second.

429
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,600
» Let's do a roll call vote for this one
since it's a conditional approval.

430
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,080
» Sorry, who seconded?
>> I did.

431
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,120
» Okay.
Okay. Uh Chris Cody.

432
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,960
» Approved.
>> Kathy Smith.

433
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,280
» Approved.
>> Bill Jewel.

434
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,000
» Approved.
>> Jared Anderson.

435
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,560
» Approved.
>> Jed Skogen.

436
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:19,200
» Approved.
>> Thank you very much.

437
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:24,120
All right.
Rana.

438
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:29,960
» Next up is 526 Jefferson Street. This is
a contributing structure built in 1835.

439
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:32,440
It is part of a series of five uh row
houses.

440
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:38,320
Um this is zone historic district
residential and this request is to build

441
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:40,920
a 21 and 1/2 foot by 36 and 1/2 foot
garage.

442
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,760
» Thank you.
>> Good afternoon.

443
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,680
» Oh, wait. Where are we?

444
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,360
» I thought I believe the measurements
you've been recently submitted a

445
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:56,360
different measurement of 20 and 1/2 feet
by 32 feet.

446
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,840
» Uh possibly Was that submitted today?
>> Uh not if it was submitted today.

447
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,480
I'm sorry. I don't know exactly what day
it was submitted.

448
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,159
Yes, I'm sorry. It wasn't submitted
today.

449
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,159
I do have the the plans here, updated
plans if that helps.

450
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,360
I thought you already submitted the
updated plans, too. I'm sorry.

451
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:26,679
» It Yeah, we need to see what's being
proposed for approval. But if you're

452
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:31,080
saying 32 by 20 and 1/2, that's the
dimensions of what's on the screen right

453
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,080
now. So maybe

454
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,800
» All right.
>> Sorry, that's correct.

455
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:45,760
» Okay.
Well,

456
00:34:42,919 --> 00:34:49,800
please tell us about your proposal.
>> Uh we'd like to build a new garage in

457
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:54,520
the back of 526.
Leaving there's a some room between

458
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,680
the building, I'm sorry.
And we'll leave between the existing

459
00:34:55,879 --> 00:35:01,720
structure with the back porch, it'll
leave 20 ft 9 in.

460
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,920
And then from the property line, which
is the alley behind, it will leave 25

461
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:10,160
ft.
Off the back of the alley.

462
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:15,120
We're proposing to do a
Sorry, the

463
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:18,560
the windows, there's one window beside
the man door that would be a aluminum

464
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,360
clad wood window.
Um there also the entry door would be

465
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:27,640
fiberglass.
The siding would be LP SmartSide.

466
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,640
Um and

467
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,720
the roof would be a hidden seam within
our standing seam with hidden fasteners.

468
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,800
Um
and then the garage door would be a

469
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,080
carriage style garage door.
When I say style, it'll be a carriage

470
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,960
look.
It'll be an actual roll-up door, but

471
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,200
it'll have the hinges on it and handles
on it to make it look like it's a

472
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,200
carriage style door.

473
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,720
» Are there any questions from the board
for the applicant?

474
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,560
Bennet, can you pull back the the
drawing back up? I just want I was

475
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,040
wondering about the the total height. I
can't read that number there.

476
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:09,200
» That's 16 ft.
>> 16 ft?

477
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,600
» And that's a shed style roof. So,
there's an existing garage on the next

478
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,480
side of the side of that that will start
with a shed style off of that garage and

479
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,120
come down.
Um which will match what's on the actual

480
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:23,160
house itself.
>> That's very helpful context, especially

481
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:27,440
given the zero-foot setback.
>> Okay.

482
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,440
Um the actual roof on the house has uh
where you can exposed fasteners. Um,

483
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:34,120
when we do this it will be hidden
fasteners.

484
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:37,840
So, not so much a barn look to it.
>> Thank you for that clarification.

485
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:41,960
» Thank you.
>> Any other questions from the board for

486
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,960
the applicant?

487
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:47,040
Um, thank you very much. Is there any
public comment?

488
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,720
And hearing none, let's move on to board
deliberation.

489
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,880
» Actually, Chris, if you don't mind, I'm
not sure the the correct place to put

490
00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:00,760
this. I like your garage very much and I
will vote in support of it. I just

491
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:06,720
wanted to talk to you just for a minute
about your amazing house.

492
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:10,520
Uh, there are not any other five
house blocks in Madison. There's four

493
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,480
house blocks, three house blocks, but no
other five house blocks. This is built

494
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:19,160
in 1835
and it's known as the McLean block. So,

495
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:24,040
here's your whole block of houses here.
And you know, we can look at some of the

496
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:29,640
other structures and guess um about, you
know, how this building how these five

497
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:35,000
buildings looked together back in 1835.
So, here is a completely fantasized

498
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:39,960
picture of the buildings with the six
over six windows, with the transoms over

499
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:44,360
all the doors, and it is just a unique
block. You know, we don't have anything

500
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,960
else like it in town. And Madison, you
know, was unlike other historic

501
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,600
districts in the country. We have
preserved our smaller and medium-sized

502
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,840
buildings. You know, other towns, they
save all the big ones. Everybody wants

503
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:58,880
to save the big ones, but everybody
doesn't always save the little ones. And

504
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:02,800
so, we have such a complete intact uh
situation here. I think you can think of

505
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:07,320
your house, you know, your own building.
Each house here is its own distinct

506
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:11,560
unit, but this also is a whole
streetscape, all of these five buildings

507
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:15,680
together. And so, I just want to thank
you so much for putting investment and

508
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:20,200
attention into this magnificent
building. There's so many signs here of

509
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:24,640
high-quality construction. The entire
five-unit block is Flemish brick bond,

510
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,760
which is high quality brick
construction. It's not common bond.

511
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,280
There's neat um
arched not arched but um

512
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,240
brick um
things over the windows. Uh sort of flat

513
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,880
arches if you will over every single
window in the whole structure. I mean

514
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:43,720
it's just it's a magnificent set of
buildings. I you know, I just want to

515
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:48,160
congratulate you on your amazing
building in this whole amazing block and

516
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:51,920
just thank you for putting the attention
that it needs because it's been a sorely

517
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:55,640
neglected block. So, that was a little
bit of a transgression but thank you.

518
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,960
» one that the owner Mark Puckett has
done. We did one on Walnut Street. I'm

519
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,800
sure you guys are familiar with the one
we did on Walnut Street and this one.

520
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,320
So, I believe with this block here, the
one on the very end has already been

521
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,080
redone also and then we're doing the
other end. Hopefully somebody will do

522
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,440
something with the ones there through
the middle too.

523
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:12,600
» Right. No, over time, you know, they've
been changed and some of them have these

524
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:16,920
entrance entrance ways, you know, that
was a new thing. So, I I must say that,

525
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:21,120
you know, Link LeDington who's I think
here tonight, he was the one who helped

526
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:27,240
me understand all of these neat uh
historical uh features of this very cool

527
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:30,760
block. So, anyway, thank you very much.
>> Well, happy it is never a procedural

528
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:37,080
transgression to point out very good
news. So, thank you so much for sharing

529
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,080
and thank you again.

530
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:46,720
So, uh
board deliberation Does anyone have any

531
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:46,720
concerns about the proposed project?

532
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,920
If not, does anyone have a motion?

533
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,360
» I do.
>> Oh, you do have some concerns, Bill?

534
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:02,520
» Uh I don't have a concern. I have
>> Oh, you have a motion. Oh, even better.

535
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:07,800
» I move that we accept the application
that's been presented for 526 Jefferson

536
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:13,760
uh to build a new garage with standing
seam roof and LP SmartSide.

537
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:17,360
Do I hear a second?
>> Uh Bill, I think that was the the last

538
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,560
one that we were talking about the
standing seam roof and the the LP Smart

539
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:25,160
Siding. I think that's inherent in the
application. So, we just need a motion

540
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:28,760
to approve the application as proposed.
>> I move to accept the application as it's

541
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,320
proposed.
>> I second.

542
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,440
» Thank you.
All those in favor?

543
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,000
» I.
>> I.

544
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:39,440
» Any opposed? Hearing none.
Thank you.

545
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,760
Okay, Brenna, on with the next one.
>> Okay.

546
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:50,680
Next up is 205 Saint Michaels Avenue.
This um structure was built this year,

547
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:54,760
2026.
Um it is zoned residential medium

548
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:59,880
density, and this request is to build a
12-ft by 16-ft deck off of the back of

549
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:03,760
the house, and to place a 10 by 12
garden shed in the backyard.

550
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:07,200
» Hello, Mr. Taylor. Welcome back.
>> Well, thank you for having me back.

551
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:15,720
So, this is the request. Um
the house is almost done, and I have got

552
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:20,520
approval for the fence for the back by
the alley. And but before I do the

553
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:24,560
fence, I like to get that uh garden shed
in there first.

554
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:28,280
And uh it's LP
siding. Uh

555
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:33,640
the picture has uh metal, but I'm going
to put shingles on it.

556
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:39,680
And um it's a 10 by 12 just to store a
bunch of garden stuff, and um

557
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:45,400
Um and then the deck, um
just a regular 10 by 12 deck

558
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:49,880
in the back. This is just uh an example,
and it might change a little, but not

559
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:54,880
too much on that. But the it's just
going to be coming out of the sliding of

560
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:58,240
the back door, and uh
just

561
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:02,680
enjoy some cookout.
So,

562
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:06,360
if there's anything else I need to bring
up, or if you all have any questions,

563
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,520
just feel free to ask me.
>> Well, I think that you benefit from us

564
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:13,320
having reviewed the plan for your house
and understanding the property and its

565
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,920
context. So, I don't Does anyone else on
Does anyone on the board have questions?

566
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:24,800
Thank you.
>> Um so out of curiosity, so the the shed

567
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:26,160
itself is 12-ft tall, correct?
>> Tall?

568
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,360
» Yeah.
>> Uh you know, I didn't get that

569
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:33,880
measurement. I don't believe uh
>> That's not the end of the world. I was

570
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:38,320
just curious. Um
and then how tall will your fence be?

571
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:42,840
» Well, I'd like it to have a little
taller, but I think uh per

572
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,680
it can't be taller than 6 ft.
>> 6 ft is the limit.

573
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,120
» Okay.
Um

574
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:51,360
» Cuz the the side of the fence between my
neighbors, we put that up. Uh

575
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,920
so it it would it's not It's going to be
about almost the same height.

576
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,080
» Okay.
>> So.

577
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,640
But the fence is already approved.
>> Sure.

578
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,640
» Yeah.

579
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,080
» Are there any other questions for the
applicant from the board?

580
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,520
Is there any public comment?

581
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:18,400
Thank you. Hearing none, let's move on
to board deliberation.

582
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,840
Um I agree with the staff recommendation
here.

583
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,360
» Yeah, I I agree as well.

584
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,240
» Does anyone have any concerns they'd
like to to bring to our attention?

585
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,520
Hearing none, would anyone like to make
a motion?

586
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:45,480
» I move the Madison Historic Board of
Review approve the uh the deck and the

587
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:50,040
um the shed being proposed for um sorry,
I forgot the address.

588
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:54,240
205 St. Michael's
um as presented.

589
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,240
» I second that.

590
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,040
» All those in favor?
>> I.

591
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,480
» I.
>> Any opposed?

592
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,920
Hearing none.
Thank you.

593
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:12,680
» Okay. Next up, we have 317 West 3rd
Street. This is a contributing

594
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:18,800
structure. It is a federal and
Italianate style duplex double

595
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:24,480
house um built in 1845 zoned historic
district residential. And this is a

596
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:27,840
request to place a black vinyl privacy
screen along the property line.

597
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,600
» Thank you, Breanna.
>> Hi. My name is Sandy Deardorff. This is

598
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:35,480
my husband, Jim, and we own the property
here at 317. I prepared a statement

599
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,600
which I'm going to give you He's going
to give each of you a copy and I'm going

600
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:43,200
to read it because I want to address the
issues that were uh presented to all of

601
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,200
you.

602
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,000
» Thank you, Breanna.

603
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:03,480
I'm over here, I think.
>> So, we are requesting approval of the

604
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:07,840
privacy screen that we have attached to
the existing wrought iron

605
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:13,360
fence that was already in place. The
existing fence remains in good condition

606
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:19,480
as we did not remove or alter this hot
historic fence. Rather, we attached a

607
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:23,840
black privacy screen panels um to the
fence using removable fasteners. To

608
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:30,720
provide additional support for the
panels, black painted 2x2 in boards were

609
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:35,120
attached horizontally to the existing
fence and the panels were secured with

610
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,920
black zip ties.
The privacy screen panels are

611
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:44,240
approximately 48 in by 72
by 72 in high. The installation is

612
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:48,720
reversible and could be removed without
damage to the wrought iron fence. The

613
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:52,920
purpose of the installation was to
provide privacy, not to replace the

614
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:59,000
existing fence.
We understand that concerns have been

615
00:45:54,920 --> 00:46:02,720
raised regarding sections 20.8 and 20.9
of the historic district design

616
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:08,040
guidelines regarding
contemporary materials and alterations

617
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:12,120
to existing fences. However, we
respectfully request that the board

618
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:17,160
consider the following.
The historic wrought iron fence remains

619
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:22,280
intact and visible. The privacy screen
is an attachment to the existing fence

620
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:26,520
rather than replacement of the historic
feature.

621
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:31,000
Similar contemporary fencing materials
including vinyl fencing already exist

622
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:35,520
throughout the historic district.
Several white vinyl fences are visible

623
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:39,360
in public view within the district. In
addition, there are examples of other

624
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:45,160
non-historic screening materials being
used on residential properties. We have

625
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:50,720
provided photographs of some examples.
The privacy screen is black in color and

626
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:55,160
visually unobtrusive. It was selected to
blend with the existing black wrought

627
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:58,240
iron fence rather than draw attention to
itself.

628
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:03,000
The screen addresses a legitimate
privacy concern. Without the screen,

629
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:07,560
there's a direct line of sight from
neighboring properties, the public

630
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:11,920
sidewalk, and passing traffic into our
porch area and into portions of our

631
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:16,400
kitchen and dining room.
The privacy screen allows us reasonable

632
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:22,000
enjoyment of our home while maintaining
the existing historic fence.

633
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,600
In addition,
we ask the board to consider the

634
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:30,600
personal
circumstances that make the privacy

635
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,600
especially important at this time.

636
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:37,760
Approximately 5 months ago, I was
diagnosed with lymphoma and currently

637
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:42,120
facing treatment decisions
that may include chemotherapy. As my

638
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,600
family and I navigate this difficult
period, maintaining a greater degree of

639
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:50,040
privacy at our home has become
particularly important to our comfort

640
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:54,640
and to our well-being.
The screens help provide that privacy

641
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:59,920
while allowing the historic wrought iron
fence to remain in place.

642
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:04,720
We respectfully request that the board
approve the installation as a reasonable

643
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:09,800
accommodation that balances the goals of
historic preservation with the practical

644
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:13,280
privacy needs of Jim and Lisa
as homeowners in the Madison Historic

645
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:17,480
District.
We thank each of you for your

646
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,480
consideration.

647
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,920
» Thank you very much. Do any members of
the board have questions for the

648
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:29,080
applicant?
Well,

649
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:29,080
» the fence is already up. Does that mean

650
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,560
» The fence
has already been

651
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,160
erected?
>> The screens are already The screens are

652
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:40,920
already installed.
>> Okay, so you did that without approval.

653
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,480
You just went and did it, right?
>> We did not know that we needed approval

654
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:51,000
because we were just putting it along
the fence line. A complaint was filed,

655
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:56,480
so we were advised that we need to get a
certificate of appropriateness. So,

656
00:48:53,400 --> 00:49:01,120
that's why we're doing this backwards.
>> Uh-huh.

657
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,120
Um

658
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:08,680
Hm.
>> Is uh the privacy screen um does it have

659
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,640
fence posts going down into the ground
or is it sort of a more temporary kind

660
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,960
of thing?
>> It is It does not have anything The

661
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,800
screens are sitting um level on the
ground.

662
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:23,040
» And they're just attached to the metal
historic fence behind it.

663
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:27,400
» Yes, and that is with a black zip tie.
So, unless you get very close to it,

664
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:33,040
you're you don't see the zip ties at
all. So, it's temporary. It was just to

665
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:38,040
provide It also is slotted so that
there's still air flow through it.

666
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:42,320
There's still is some view through the
fence, but it provides a

667
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:47,120
a level of privacy.
>> Is it known on which property the the

668
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:51,200
historic fence
lies? Like whose property the historic

669
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:56,200
fence is?
>> From our records and from everything

670
00:49:54,240 --> 00:50:02,640
that we have seen, this fence line has
been there since 1990. I have photos,

671
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:07,360
not with this particular wrought iron,
but photos when back when Evan

672
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:11,320
Summerfeld owned the building owned the
whole He actually owned both of the

673
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:17,880
houses at that time. Um so there is a
fence row. So the metal fence along the

674
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:23,280
line there butts up to a cedar fence
that goes um just past There's a shed

675
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:28,520
there. Goes just past the shed all the
way to the alley. So we have a complete

676
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:33,320
fence line all the way along there. So
all we have done instead of changing or

677
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:37,880
moving anything or even extending the
cedar fence, we've added a privacy

678
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:39,440
screen to give us some a little bit more
privacy.

679
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,800
» Okay.
Thank you.

680
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,280
» Are there any additional questions from
the board?

681
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,280
» Yeah, I just

682
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:54,160
Looking at it from from your
your side,

683
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:57,560
it's a nice background to your plants.
>> It really is.

684
00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:03,120
» It makes a nice clean background.
Um I don't know that you it should stick

685
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:05,920
out beyond the There's a building over
there.

686
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:10,840
Um
if you look at the picture on the left,

687
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:14,240
you see on the right side there is a all
the way to the border, there's a

688
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:19,480
building there. So it looks like about
two of the panels

689
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,000
stick out beyond that.
Um

690
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:30,560
» That is um a shed that belongs to the
neighbor property.

691
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:35,840
So if we And so that shed doesn't really
block the two windows and the door that

692
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:40,840
go into our kitchen and our dining room
and it doesn't block This This view here

693
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:45,600
is from the sidewalk
walking towards our home.

694
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:50,800
So
And And that another thing that we did

695
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:54,680
was we stopped the the uh screen right
at the edge of our porch because we

696
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:59,880
weren't trying to block the whole view
of the house or be

697
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:04,320
obtrusive in any way. We wanted to just
give a little bit of privacy to that

698
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:08,920
lower porch because we are out there a
lot and because you can see from this

699
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:12,640
view directly into
that first window there is my dining

700
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:17,960
room, the door and then there's a long
kitchen window that goes from ceiling to

701
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:21,240
floor. So, that's why we extended to
where it is.

702
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:26,480
» All right.
How long have you lived in this house?

703
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:29,040
» We purchased the house in 2016, July of
2016.

704
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:34,000
So,
right at 10 years. When we bought the

705
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:39,200
home, it's completely overgrown. We have
three gas light fixtures, couldn't even

706
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:43,400
see those. Everything There were vines
growing into the windows.

707
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:48,120
We've had to replace several in the back
with wood-clad aluminum windows or

708
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:51,280
aluminum-clad windows.
Um but we've been working on the house

709
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:55,200
for 10 years and
the reason we decided to add the screens

710
00:52:53,320 --> 00:53:00,160
this year is only before some health
reasons and just wanting a little bit

711
00:52:56,720 --> 00:53:00,160
more privacy at this time.

712
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,720
» Um
I'm not

713
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:10,160
being argumentative here.
We have a similar situation at our house

714
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:13,920
and we we use curtains, you know, cuz
our dining room

715
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:18,080
looks across an alley
into a

716
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:21,080
and not really well-fixed up house next
door.

717
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:25,760
And uh
we just pull the curtains closed when

718
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:29,440
we're sitting there.
That's all. That's all I have to say.

719
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:34,440
» We do have window shades on all of our
windows and we do close them typically

720
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:38,440
at night, but if we do have company or
family over for dinner or something, I

721
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:42,760
don't normally close everything up while
we're there. And then sitting on the

722
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:47,560
porch outside, we have a beautiful side
porch and love spending time out there

723
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:50,320
and it just affords us a little bit more
privacy.

724
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,800
» I have no more comments right at the
moment.

725
00:53:54,640 --> 00:54:01,920
» Are there any further questions from the
board?

726
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,920
Thank you. Is there any public comment?

727
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:09,760
» I would like to
I just like to point out in favor of the

728
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:14,480
couple here that in our UDO there is
nothing specifically pertaining to

729
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:19,280
privacy fences or screens, rather.
Uh only fencing, which this is not a

730
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:23,760
permanent structure.
Um so, I believe they have that going

731
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:26,280
for it and I hope you guys approve it
for them.

732
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,800
Thank you.

733
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:36,720
» Mike Pittman, 420 Elm Street. It's
different. I'm usually on S uh days.

734
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,240
Uh
I'd like to tell you about that fence

735
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:49,160
that's covered up.
That fence was covered up uh uh it was

736
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:53,880
Linda and I bought our my house back in
the last century. Hard to believe it's

737
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:56,800
the last century. In late 1990s,
mid-1990s.

738
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:00,160
There were two gentlemen on our street.
Some of you may have heard of them. Evan

739
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,760
Summerfield
and uh

740
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,480
Evan Summerfield and uh he'll come to
me.

741
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:18,200
» Happens to me, too.
>> No, Arliss Helton.

742
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:22,440
Arliss Helton worked for for Duke. And
and of course Evan Summerfield, if you

743
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:27,640
knew him, he did had a wonderful uh
historic uh

744
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:31,520
store downtown and and he searched the
world for different different antiques

745
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,280
and things and we have several in our
house.

746
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:39,520
But from the standpoint of Arliss
Helton, Arliss came to us as we were

747
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:44,680
rehabbing our house at 420 Elm Street
and he basically said, "Hey Mike,

748
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:48,800
all this all the houses
on

749
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:54,920
Third Street on the south side between
here and the fountain have beautiful

750
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:57,920
historic iron fences.
He said, "I got one for you, but you got

751
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:03,400
to buy it,
but Evan's trying to buy it, too."

752
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:07,960
So, and Evan's our neighbor, too.
So, I mean it was kind of a a race here,

753
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:12,360
so Lynn and I were going to Louisville
to get the wrought iron fence

754
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:15,760
and lo and behold we're able to purchase
it.

755
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:19,800
But, we didn't have enough fence. So,
Evan, being the gentleman he was, said,

756
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:24,000
"Well, I can get you some other type
fences along the sides and back and

757
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:27,880
forth." So, I'm pretty emotional about
that and I feel very bad for Sandy's

758
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:31,920
situation. I think there's another way
to accommodate what she needs with

759
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:36,920
another
addition to her home that wouldn't cover

760
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:40,920
up that wonderful fencing we have and
everyone can see. Believe it or not,

761
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:44,760
right now those of you went by the house
probably couldn't see

762
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:48,920
back between the houses because
my wife's a prolific gardener

763
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:52,360
and Sandy's got some beautiful stuff and
everything is is grown up, so it's very

764
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:56,120
difficult to see.
But, in the summertime

765
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,680
when the leaves come off the trees in
the winter

766
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:02,160
it's nice to be able to see that iron
fence and see that the beauty of it as

767
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:09,080
well as the iron fence we have around
the front. I have some pictures.

768
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:11,840
The Deer Dors have been very active in
Excuse me.

769
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:14,160
» modifying fences
wrought iron.

770
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:21,320
» That is the wood fence that Sandy talked
about

771
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:25,800
that you can see that the fencing has
been wood fencing has been moved and

772
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:29,800
changed.
This is the way the the

773
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,240
plastic fence is attached to the iron
fence.

774
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:44,640
» Tho- Those of you that know
wood

775
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:50,640
and if you know if it's not painted and
treated, it's going to rot. I I expect

776
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,640
that will not last.

777
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:58,920
These are the installations of the fence
as you walk back into the

778
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,920
through the area of Sandy's house.

779
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,840
You can notice that they're not aligned
and there's missing screws.

780
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:21,240
This is a picture of what you could see
without the

781
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,240
leaves on the trees.

782
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:34,080
Well, I understand Sandy's need for
privacy. I had a very ill wife for a

783
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,640
number of years.
Of course, she's pro- hopefully looking

784
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:41,200
down on me right now and saying, "What
are you doing up there, dummy?"

785
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:44,360
But, uh she she uh she had a rough go of
it, too, and I understand the need for

786
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:47,720
privacy.
But, I also understand the need for us

787
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:51,800
maintaining
the block we have

788
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:54,800
right there on on Elm Street and and
also uh

789
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,320
West 3rd Street.
Uh

790
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,920
there's not a day goes by that we don't
get somebody stopping. In fact, we had

791
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:04,400
some people from St. Joseph, Michigan.
We had some gentleman from Champaign,

792
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:09,160
Illinois. They stopped me, talked to us
for 20 25 minutes. Linda's a great

793
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:13,160
ambassador for this town. She she does a
lot of good things.

794
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,200
My fear is that
this fence won't be

795
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:19,840
temporary.
I think it it uh should not be approved,

796
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:24,960
and I think there are other alternatives
for for covering that up. Uh this fence

797
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:28,360
was installed, I think, in about 3 days.
So, those of you who know fencing, you

798
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:32,360
don't install a fence in 3 days if it's
going to last. So, gentlemen, I urge you

799
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:36,840
not to approve this
application. Thank you.

800
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:42,280
» Thank you very much, Mr. Pittman.
Is there any additional public comment?

801
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,760
» I have a question about one of your
pictures here.

802
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,600
» Yeah.
>> So, this one here, is this the wood

803
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:53,720
section of fencing that it's
attached to the iron fence?

804
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:57,640
It's not the privacy screen. It's not
the middle black fence.

805
00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:02,840
» No, that fence is not
Excuse me, that fence is not attached.

806
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:08,040
That is the wooden fence. It is not
attached to the wrought iron fence. We

807
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:14,160
added that because that was a direct
view right into my kitchen. So, all we

808
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:18,920
did was extend the wooden fence
because the

809
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:23,560
the iron fence butts up to
the front of the

810
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:27,600
the front of the fence butts up to the
back of our

811
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:32,480
of the wooden fence. So, we extended
that since we

812
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:37,040
took over. There was a gap between where
the shed

813
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:42,360
on their property and the garage where
our fence starts. So, there was a big

814
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:48,600
6-ft gap that was directly into our
porch. So, and we did that several years

815
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:51,560
ago. I would say 2020 2021, something
like that.

816
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,360
We've never heard a word about it. We've
never heard any complaints or any issues

817
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,840
at
all about that particular

818
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,880
piece.
And that was completely out of the

819
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,800
question.
>> Okay. Th- Thank you for that

820
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:06,840
clarification.
Um

821
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:11,040
so, no further public comment
uh leaves us with board deliberation and

822
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:15,520
discussion.
>> I could see

823
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:18,480
uh the petitioner's point of view from
the point of

824
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:25,120
uh
cancer treatment. Um and I can

825
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:27,680
understand the need for privacy.
Um,

826
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:35,840
but I also see the next door neighbor's
point of view.

827
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,840
Um,

828
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:45,280
would we be able to do this if we say
you can leave the fence there for 18

829
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:51,640
months or something, you know, a
definite period to get her through the

830
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:56,560
treatment and then the fence comes down.
Does that make sense?

831
01:01:54,320 --> 01:02:00,920
» Yeah, I I understand. I don't think that
we can put conditional time limits on

832
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:04,640
certificates of appropriateness. We
either grant them or we don't. Um, I

833
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:09,160
don't think that we can have them
expire. I do agree though that this is

834
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:13,200
an extremely
um, difficult

835
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:17,280
decision. It's It's It's funny how some
of the hardest things we have to think

836
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:20,800
of are totally reversible and permanent
privacy screens. You know, these things

837
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:24,520
that don't seem like they would arouse
the

838
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:28,760
complex decision-making required that
that this does. Um, cuz I certainly

839
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:33,280
understand uh, Mr. Pittman's
perspective, but uh, my heart absolutely

840
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:38,400
goes out to the applicant and the need
here is clear and

841
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:41,760
reversibility is such a key um, aspect
of historic preservation and the fact

842
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:44,680
that this is entirely reversible and I
think

843
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:50,000
to Mr. Pittman's point inherently
non-permanent just because of the um,

844
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:53,880
nature of the materials construction
methods used. I mean, zip ties don't

845
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:57,960
tend to last decades.
Um,

846
01:02:54,960 --> 01:03:01,360
uh, it's it's it's tough. I do have a
a question for city staff. I appreciated

847
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:05,080
the
comment about

848
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:10,680
the
guidelines and our zoning ordinance not

849
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:14,920
speaking to truly impermanent
changes. So, you know, this isn't a

850
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:20,000
fence. This is a screen that's been
applied to a

851
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:23,400
uh, zip ties, you know, are they
permanent

852
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:28,120
fasteners that
imbue this fence with some sort of level

853
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:33,840
of permanency that puts us in our within
our purview, or is this something that

854
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:38,560
the board might not even have purview to
review as an impermanent alteration?

855
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:46,080
» So, typically this would be something
that is considered staff, but given the

856
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:49,680
complaint, um
it was brought to to the board for that

857
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:55,520
reason.
Um, because of the impermanence of it,

858
01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:00,680
that is why it would typically stay as
staff, but because of the complaint,

859
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:04,040
that is why we have it here. So,
does that answer?

860
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:09,680
» It it does. My understanding is is that
we only review permanent alterations. If

861
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:13,200
someone did an art exhibit in their
front yard or something that was, you

862
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:18,000
know, impermanent, that's not typically
within our purview.

863
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:22,680
Um, so
I think that

864
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:26,760
even if as a if we were to consider it
permanent, then we would have the

865
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:32,600
question of does it comply with the
guidelines, but if the decision is and

866
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:37,520
the opinion is that it's impermanent,
then it's, you know, again, not not up

867
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,520
to us.

868
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:43,960
I
I I I sure wish the city attorney was

869
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:47,720
here right now to give us a very formal
opinion on whether or not this is

870
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:52,200
appropriate for us to even take action
on.

871
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:56,440
» Does the guidelines I I couldn't find it
in here, but do do the guidelines

872
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,240
specify
what temporary means

873
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,920
in this case?
>> I don't believe so.

874
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,880
» Okay.
>> This is kind of a an unusual case.

875
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:09,200
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

876
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:12,560
» I'm looking here on 28 uh, 20.8 and 20.9
and this is in the the on fences and

877
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,400
walls.
And I think, you know, we have

878
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:18,880
guidelines about fences, but we really
don't have guidelines about something

879
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:21,840
like this that is temporary. I walked
past both these properties. These are

880
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:25,280
absolutely stunningly beautiful
properties, both of them. Both a credit

881
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:28,800
to the neighborhood and to the historic
district. Both these owners are doing

882
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:33,280
wonderful jobs with their properties.
From the street,

883
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:39,800
it seems an unobtrusive
um kind of fitting in uh privacy screen.

884
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:45,280
Um and it would seem that though being
temporary, it might not fall under our

885
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:50,160
perview.
>> Yeah, I I think that the safest course

886
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:55,480
of action for us here
um

887
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:59,000
is probably to table the application and
I can get a reading from or an opinion

888
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:03,800
from the city attorney as to whether or
not this is in fact temporary. If we

889
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:07,640
were to table the application, the
privacy screen would remain as it

890
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:12,840
currently is
um while we figure that out. And if the

891
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:16,360
ultimate opinion of the city attorney is
that it is temporary and not in our

892
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:20,520
perview, then no further action would be
needed by this board. It would only be

893
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:25,160
if the city attorney decided that this
is in fact a permanent installation that

894
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:27,240
requires our approval that it would come
back to us.

895
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:31,800
Um
without having clarity on that issue, I

896
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:36,800
don't feel comfortable saying yay or nay
at this juncture personally.

897
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:43,200
» Well, if we agree it's it's uh a
temporary structure, and then you got to

898
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:47,440
say how temporary. I mean, 10 years?
>> Well, and that's So, the issue there is

899
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:50,920
that this board is not empowered to make
a decision about what the definition of

900
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:54,160
the word temporary is. We're only
empowered to

901
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:58,240
uh evaluate applications for their
conformance with the guidelines. And so,

902
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:03,840
I think that that's where we need the
city attorney to tell us whether or not

903
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:07,080
this is in fact within our perview. And
you know, if it's impermanent, it's not.

904
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:09,600
If it's permanent, it is, and we'll hear
it again.

905
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:18,680
» I'd also like to say on on their defense
that they are keeping the existing

906
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:22,640
wrought iron fence. So, even if it was a
permanent structure,

907
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:26,680
the next person who bought the property
or later down the line, that wrought

908
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:30,440
iron fence is still there and can always
be re-exposed.

909
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:34,520
» Yeah, the reversibility is, you know, a
key consideration here, and the fact

910
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:39,480
that no historic materials are being
harmed today by us not resolving this

911
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:44,480
question right now and getting this
extra clarity. I think if there was

912
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:49,520
substantial harm to materials or, you
know, building occurring here, we might

913
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:54,160
feel more pressure to make a decision,
but I think getting this one exactly

914
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:57,760
right, especially um given how
well-founded Mr. Pittman's concerns

915
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:01,000
were, and then giving the
heartbreaking extenuating circumstances

916
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:06,000
for the applicant, I think that, you
know, taking some time to do this

917
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:09,760
correctly is warranted.
Um would anyone be willing to to help me

918
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:14,000
out with a a motion to table this
application

919
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:16,600
pending uh review of its
uh whether or not it falls within the

920
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,040
purview of our board by the city
attorney?

921
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:28,160
» I move that we table the application
um

922
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:33,960
um being proposed by the uh
by the uh the owners at uh 317 West 3rd

923
01:08:31,440 --> 01:08:37,960
Street uh pending deliberation by the
Madison uh city attorney.

924
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:43,920
» Do we have a second?
>> I second.

925
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:45,120
» All those in favor?
>> I.

926
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:48,480
» I.
>> Any opposed?

927
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,480
None heard.
>> Opposed.

928
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:55,040
» Oh, one We do have one opposed.
>> I don't think we're talking about this

929
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:58,160
enough, but
you guys carried the You have the

930
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:01,400
majority here.
>> Well, while we made a motion to table,

931
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:05,520
if If have anything else you'd like to
add, I we be to hear it.

932
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:10,040
» you know, the
I hate to say we're spending all this

933
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:13,279
time on a plastic fence, you know, cuz
we got a lot of stuff to go through

934
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:17,839
here. And it how I never would have
thought we'd get stopped on something

935
01:09:14,839 --> 01:09:22,759
like this, but you deal with something
uh

936
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:27,920
it's a personal opinion of mine that in
a historic district when you fix your

937
01:09:24,759 --> 01:09:33,680
house up uh
it's not just not what you see what

938
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:39,359
somebody driving by in a car sees your
house and say, "Oh, that's swell."

939
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:43,960
The guy the the neighbors see what your
house is. So, we're and I've dealt with

940
01:09:41,799 --> 01:09:48,200
this we've had this several times before
where somebody put they already put the

941
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:53,120
windows in. Remember that just happened
up on on a couple blocks from here. They

942
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:59,160
already took the good windows out and
put plastic windows in. Um and uh it's

943
01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:04,480
but right next door was a house that
somebody had actually done it right. So,

944
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:09,440
when he looks out his window, he sees
plastic fencing or he sees plastic

945
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:15,200
windows. When they look out their
window, they see a restored house. So,

946
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:18,680
and there's there is uh
I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what

947
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:23,960
kind of language to use on saying
something like that. What you uh

948
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:28,520
diminish someone else's effort by not
doing the effort yourself. You follow

949
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:33,800
what I'm saying? They get a free nice
view out their front window of a

950
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:37,840
beautiful house. And whereas in this
system uh this situation of of a couple

951
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:40,760
months ago
the

952
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:46,320
man that put the plastic windows looks
out the windows and he sees a really

953
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:50,720
nice house across the street. So, um
we're we're kind of into that territory

954
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:53,680
for me. And and I would say if we would
say

955
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:58,440
it's temporary because I don't think
vinyl fencing is even permitted. We make

956
01:10:56,200 --> 01:11:03,440
allowances for it.
And And we could make an allowance here,

957
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:08,320
but I would say also make an allowance
that it can be there

958
01:11:05,480 --> 01:11:12,200
1 year, 2 years, 3 years, but there's a
end point to it where it's got to come

959
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:17,160
out. You can't sell the house with a
plastic like, you know, 5 years down the

960
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:21,400
road, it's too big a house for you guys
and you want to downsize.

961
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:24,960
That fence has to go.
Do you follow me?

962
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:28,200
» Yeah, I think I I agree with your
concerns and I think that there perhaps

963
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:33,320
are
more architecturally sensitive ways to

964
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:36,160
achieve privacy in some of these
settings.

965
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:39,800
You know,
and again though, I think what we're

966
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:43,760
suffering from is a lack of a definition
of what is temporary versus permanent

967
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,720
and
>> Probably there is no definition of

968
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:50,200
temporary.
>> which is which is why the city attorney

969
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:51,080
needs to look to probably Indiana case
law

970
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:55,120
» Okay.
>> to determine what that word means.

971
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:59,200
If
5 years down the road this vinyl fence

972
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:03,760
is still up, then I
really pushes the envelope of being

973
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:07,640
temporary. So to me, um
you know, this is a question that that

974
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:11,800
is bigger than this application and it
is indeed always interesting at these

975
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,400
meetings as to what these small
>> You never know what these things are

976
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:19,280
going to turn into big things.
>> to turn into big conversations. So, um

977
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:24,040
thank you very much to the the applicant
and and to Mr. Pittman for your patience

978
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:29,080
as we try and and figure this out. We
understand both your situation and why

979
01:12:26,440 --> 01:12:32,760
you want the fence and your concerns and
we're going to, you know, try and handle

980
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:36,520
this by the book and we appreciate your
patience in what we do.

981
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:41,080
So,
um with that, I think we've officially

982
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:43,760
tabled the application. Um thank you
very much.

983
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:52,000
» Okay. Next up, we have 1017 West First
Street.

984
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:57,040
This is a contributing structure built
in the Italianate style in 1876. Zone

985
01:12:55,320 --> 01:13:03,040
historic district residential and this
is a request to build a 24 by 26 two-bay

986
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:07,000
garage in line with the house
with a second floor deck to attach to

987
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:11,880
the house.
>> Good evening. My name is Lisa York and I

988
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:15,320
live at 1017 West 1st Street.
And

989
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:22,240
I'm at the next phase and I'm
approaching you all to see if you can

990
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,240
agree with me that I can have a garage.

991
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:34,080
» Okay.
Are there any questions from the board

992
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,080
for the applicant?

993
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:44,000
» Well,
I don't want to start off again with the

994
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:47,200
same thing of same tone that I had with
the

995
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:51,960
uh privacy fence.
Um

996
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:56,000
go back Can you go back to the pre- No.
There you go.

997
01:13:53,160 --> 01:14:01,600
You got a neat house there.
And it's a gem. Um and I was actually

998
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:05,360
I've been surprised. We've talked. We
know her personally. That wow, you're

999
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:11,200
really tackling this thing and you're
doing a great job.

1000
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:16,800
This changes the feel of the house. Um
although I can understand you need a

1001
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:19,360
garage. I totally agree with that.
Um

1002
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:28,640
when I was looking through the
uh the the paperwork that we get on

1003
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:32,440
this, I never really figured out how you
Is there going to be step You want to

1004
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:39,080
put a a deck on top, right?
>> Yes, that's correct. I My master bedroom

1005
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:45,760
is the of those three windows there and
the purpose was to have a deck that

1006
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:50,520
connected the house to the the garage
and not only is that going to give me

1007
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:56,040
living space outside to enjoy the river,
but it will also give me a fire egress,

1008
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:56,040
which I think is critical.

1009
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:03,040
» Are there any other questions for the
applicant?

1010
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:07,640
» Well, well, okay, so we're looking at a
little mini wall here. That's where

1011
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:11,640
the peak comes together like that,
right?

1012
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:17,960
» The the parapet wall was designed for
privacy for my for my deck, but it also

1013
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:23,280
Ryan
brought it to my attention that the

1014
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:28,640
height of the garage is
minuscule compared to the height of the

1015
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:33,280
house. So the the parapet basically
kind of brings everything kind of to

1016
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:37,560
scale, so to speak, proportional.
So that's the purpose of the parapet

1017
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,560
wall.

1018
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:43,240
Now,
I have

1019
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:49,680
I originally
had envisioned a a crown mold there

1020
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:53,160
rather than the X's.
I think that

1021
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:57,000
Ryan was just thinking outside the box
as far as decor,

1022
01:15:55,320 --> 01:16:01,160
but a crown molding would be very
appealing to me as well if it would be

1023
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,160
for you all.

1024
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:07,880
» Brenna, can you switch to the drawing
that shows the pitch of the garage roof?

1025
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:15,760
Yeah, I'm this one or the last one. At
any point did

1026
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:19,360
any point did you ever consider going
with just a flat roof to the garage to

1027
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:23,120
really capture a larger second floor
deck or is the pitch absolutely

1028
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:29,360
necessary for some reason?
>> I originally had planned a a flat deck

1029
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:33,800
all the way across and there would not
have been a breezeway,

1030
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:39,920
but from a cost standpoint the the
membrane that you put on top that you

1031
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:43,880
can use the upper level was just crazy
expensive.

1032
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:49,680
And so that is why I I did the second
version and used the breezeway instead

1033
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:54,400
to make, you know, a nice area up
upstairs, but uh it's not huge.

1034
01:16:55,840 --> 01:17:02,360
Brian and I calculated the three the
pitch there is 3 12 pitch.

1035
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:04,480
» That's that's helpful. Brenna, can you
show the other

1036
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:09,080
There we go.
>> And he is telling me that uh there's

1037
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:14,640
about 6 in
that are s- going to allow for flashing.

1038
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:14,640
» Okay.

1039
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:23,080
Thank thank you for that clarification
and discussion.

1040
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:27,000
» Well, the para- parapet parapet wall
that we're seeing in the other picture

1041
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:31,440
is hiding, yeah, that that stretch in
the whole length of your structure here

1042
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:36,120
and it's sort of hiding or giving you
privacy for both your deck and then the

1043
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:40,120
part of the garage roof that slopes down
that we saw in that other picture.

1044
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,120
» That's correct.

1045
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:47,560
» Um and
um why do you want that parapet wall to

1046
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:50,760
go s- back so far? You could just have
had it giving you the privacy from the

1047
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:55,640
deck, right?
>> Yes, that that would be an option.

1048
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:59,600
» I guess I'm having a little trouble with
the permanent alteration of the back of

1049
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:03,000
your historic building. There are
words in the guidelines, you know, about

1050
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:06,640
a permanent
alteration. I mean, there are a lot of

1051
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:12,320
buildings in town that had a almost like
a shed or a back portion uh attaching.

1052
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:16,400
I'm not sure that we've seen anything
that looks like this yet in the historic

1053
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:20,040
district. Somebody can correct me, but
this is kind of a new new one

1054
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:25,720
a little bit for me.
>> I got the idea while I was jogging

1055
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:29,440
downtown. Um there's a home that and I
don't I'm forgive me, I I can't remember

1056
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:36,080
the name of the street, but it it's on
the west side of the Lanier home.

1057
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:40,400
There is a a two-car garage that has um
is basically crown molding.

1058
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:46,360
uh that goes along the top, but it
basically kind of mimics what Ryan has

1059
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:52,600
here as far as the two car the the
garage door and then the roof slant

1060
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:55,040
slants down going west.
I'm

1061
01:18:53,720 --> 01:19:00,520
at a loss at the name of the street. I
showed you the picture. Mhm. Um

1062
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:04,280
it wasn't uh I think their front
actually went all the way up. It wasn't

1063
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:09,560
a parapet wall, but it would it gives
you a very similar look than what I'm

1064
01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:13,000
getting or what I'm asking for.
But that's where I really got the idea.

1065
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,880
» Are there any other questions from the
board for the applicant?

1066
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:23,800
» Um
well

1067
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:32,960
the whole parapet
the wall that goes all the way out

1068
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:36,000
that could be removed, right?
>> Mhm.

1069
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:40,080
» And then you just have
maybe a rail fence

1070
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,760
on this side.
>> Mhm.

1071
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:48,240
» Maybe put slats in there. But they're
they could be at an angle to give you a

1072
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:50,400
little more privacy. Possibly.
>> Okay.

1073
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:55,000
» And we shouldn't be I don't mean to be
redesigning her project. Uh

1074
01:19:53,520 --> 01:20:00,320
but
this changes the whole appearance of the

1075
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:06,720
house.
>> I would not be opposed to um removing

1076
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:10,560
the parapet um and and using a form of a
handrail.

1077
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,560
Um

1078
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:18,000
» And then you got there's three windows
as I remember at the top. So you're

1079
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:23,560
going to take the windows out and put it
>> all three. Just just the center one. And

1080
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:27,840
my plan was to and that's not in this
drawing, but my plan is to use that

1081
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:31,320
window that I'm taking out and putting
it on that south wall.

1082
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:35,920
I uh
I plan to put a a door

1083
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:39,680
a 3-ft by 6-ft door
>> Like French doors type of thing?

1084
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:44,320
» It would just be a single door. From a
cost standpoint

1085
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:48,800
and it would be symmetrical when you
have two windows on each side of a a

1086
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:52,120
door that's all glass.
>> So it'll be two windows and one door.

1087
01:20:51,480 --> 01:20:54,360
» One door.
>> Okay.

1088
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:57,760
» And then I would use reuse that window
that I'm taking out of the house and

1089
01:20:56,480 --> 01:21:02,400
putting it on that wall.
>> What wall? On the on the garage wall?

1090
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:14,240
Okay. Are there any more questions from
the board for the applicant?

1091
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:18,160
» Uh Prana has um got here on the staff
recommendation raised the roof pitch

1092
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:22,120
along the south wall.
Can you kind of um just kind of comment

1093
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:26,360
on that what your thinking is there?
>> That had been a discussion that Lisa and

1094
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:31,480
I had had about
um how steep the pitch was.

1095
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:34,560
Um and just raising it just so it wasn't
quite so severe.

1096
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:39,320
Um
given the

1097
01:21:37,480 --> 01:21:40,960
» You want this to be steeper?
>> No.

1098
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,880
» Less steep?
>> Less steep.

1099
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:47,080
» And how how come?
>> Can't go less than 312.

1100
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:49,800
I I wouldn't
with shingles anyway.

1101
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,120
» water
um

1102
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:54,080
» Okay.
>> purposes.

1103
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:56,200
» So this is the plan. What what we have
here.

1104
01:21:55,240 --> 01:22:00,800
Okay.
>> Yeah. Ryan is telling me that that's a

1105
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,800
312 pitch.

1106
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:07,960
» And you
you wouldn't recommend less than 312?

1107
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,280
» Not with a shingle roof, no.
>> Oh.

1108
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:12,480
» You can't.
>> Okay.

1109
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:15,920
» by code. Um may I make a suggestion to
you, Lisa? So when I looked at it, I

1110
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:21,280
think uh
kind of same concerns popped up with

1111
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:26,880
that parapet wall just not matching.
Um my idea was and I like your crown

1112
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:31,360
molding idea as well because that does
tie into historical.

1113
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:37,520
What about raising the parapet wall even
higher to match the roof line

1114
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:40,840
and then do your crown molding like it's
a gutter

1115
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:44,760
and match the a brick facade on that
parapet wall. So, it almost looks like

1116
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:49,000
the whole building goes all the way
across.

1117
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:53,600
» I I mean so you're talking about the
>> Go to the last picture, please.

1118
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:55,040
» west exposure of the house or of the
building

1119
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:59,560
» the parapet wall
>> wherever it is That side would be would

1120
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:04,840
be brick here?
>> Taking the parapet wall, raising it up

1121
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:09,960
to where the gutters essentially are
and then our crown molding would would

1122
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:15,320
basically match the gutter profile all
the way across to the end of the parapet

1123
01:23:12,480 --> 01:23:19,000
wall and matching a brick facade on that
parapet wall. Essentially making it look

1124
01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:23,160
like it's all part of that same
building.

1125
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:28,600
Just my idea. Not
>> Well, before we we start redesigning the

1126
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:31,840
applicant's project for which I think a
lot of us want to

1127
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:34,720
you know discuss. Um
I think we need to just clarify are

1128
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:39,360
there any further questions from the
board for the applicant and then we need

1129
01:23:36,480 --> 01:23:41,560
to hear if there's any public comment.
>> No more.

1130
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:45,080
» that you have on there, are they
actually three-dimensional? You have

1131
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:51,920
them drawn in the black.
>> Uh well, again Ryan um

1132
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:54,600
threw that in as a kind of a design
concept. Um

1133
01:23:53,560 --> 01:24:01,120
I'm
uh It would be 3D if if the dentals

1134
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:04,320
remain, but again I'm not opposed to a
crown molding, too.

1135
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:11,320
» I look at the dentals as being out of
size for the building and for other you

1136
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:15,360
know other buildings that we see they're
generally pretty small.

1137
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:22,160
Um
>> I'm actually not opposed to um Jed's

1138
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:27,920
idea about a a handrail
and that we would um just top the garage

1139
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:31,720
off appropriately, you know,
aesthetically

1140
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:36,080
and just have a handrail.
I would be opposed to I would not be

1141
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:40,560
opposed to that
if you guys do not like the parapet

1142
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:40,560
wall.

1143
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:47,640
» Any further questions from the board for
the applicant?

1144
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:50,320
Thank you very much. Is there any public
comment?

1145
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:57,320
Okay, hearing none, let's move on now to
board deliberation. Bill, I agree with

1146
01:24:56,000 --> 01:25:01,680
the last point that you just made that
this dental is a bit out of scale.

1147
01:24:59,960 --> 01:25:06,120
This is a very different design,
different from anything that we've seen

1148
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:09,320
before, but that doesn't make it bad.
Differentiation

1149
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:13,400
from the historic is one of the
important tenants for the treatment of

1150
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:16,880
historic properties and within our
guidelines.

1151
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:20,720
That being said, I think that there are
some design challenges here as as were

1152
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:24,320
brought up during the
questions to the applicant that perhaps

1153
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:27,600
we should talk through
in order to

1154
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:30,520
fully evaluate whether this complies
with the guidelines.

1155
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:43,880
» I'm really struggling with this one. I
would be more comfortable with the

1156
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:49,400
free-standing garage and maybe just a
deck coming out from the master bedroom,

1157
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:52,720
not connecting the buildings.
You know, with the historic district,

1158
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:56,720
you know, we're we're trying to preserve
what's historic here in the historic

1159
01:25:54,520 --> 01:26:01,320
look so we can continue to maintain our
national historic landmark district

1160
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:05,680
status, which was very hard to get. So,
we're trying not to change the historic

1161
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:09,080
structures too much. I understand people
really want to do what they want to do

1162
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:13,800
with their houses, but it's just really
a struggle. So, I'm having trouble

1163
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:19,840
trouble with the connectedness of your
design to the historic building.

1164
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:24,360
» I would like to see
uh

1165
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:28,160
another continuation here where we cable
it for now.

1166
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:32,640
She gets together with Ryan
and they work

1167
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:38,960
on another way of approaching this to
get rid of the parapet.

1168
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:42,360
Um give her a deck and that uh the you
know

1169
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:45,080
I hate the idea of taking historic
windows out, but she's going to reuse

1170
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:49,800
them.
But it's on and it's also on the back of

1171
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:53,200
the house. So, it's not like it'll be
seen.

1172
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:56,600
Um
>> Yeah, they're not historic. They were

1173
01:26:54,560 --> 01:27:01,320
actually They were
replaced 30 years ago by a plastic

1174
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:05,160
» Ah.
Okay.

1175
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,160
Um

1176
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:09,240
The uh but I

1177
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:15,200
I'd like to see this
she let her and Ryan work on this for

1178
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:19,560
another month and see what they could
come up with.

1179
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:24,280
» Well, let's let's talk through the
specific things that are we believe are

1180
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:27,680
not in compliance with the guidelines
and that

1181
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:31,480
would be the focus of any re-study if
that is indeed the motion that we make.

1182
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:35,720
And I think the one thing that everyone
has identified as being

1183
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:38,960
uh different from other
buildings in our district and maybe not

1184
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:43,280
compatible with the context of the
combination of the scale of the parapet

1185
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:47,080
with the
uh pitched roof in the rear. You know, I

1186
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:50,440
I wish that you I I I completely
understand why you uh the applicant

1187
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:55,600
wants to have a deck and have a a great
view. I think it's a fantastic

1188
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:59,480
improvement to this property and I wish
it was the entire, you know, a giant

1189
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:04,040
deck that went all the way to the back
of the the garage. Um but I understand

1190
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:07,680
why they haven't gone that direction.
That being said, I don't know if the

1191
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:12,440
parapet needs to extend the entire
length of the garage. I think the

1192
01:28:09,480 --> 01:28:17,920
condition of the parapet extending past
the pitch.

1193
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:21,840
You know, it it it is a little
challenging.

1194
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:25,160
The detailing of the parapet is also the
dentals in particular out of scale, but

1195
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:31,480
I think the detail could use further
study, but you know, I I for one am fine

1196
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:37,840
with a parapet on the Craigmont side
that is facing the street and a handrail

1197
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:42,760
on the interior. The parapet could be
detailed and have some of the accent and

1198
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:47,360
flare that I think the design is going
for if if at scale.

1199
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:51,320
I just don't know if it needs to run the
whole length all the way down to the the

1200
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:53,160
end of the garage or if it could stop
where the porch stops.

1201
01:28:52,640 --> 01:29:00,120
» Mhm.
>> That might make it a bit of a lighter

1202
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:04,160
addition to the historic building. To
Happy's point, I think if you know, if

1203
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:13,080
the parapet was was shorter, but
those are are again, my particular

1204
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:13,080
design concerns or or suggestions. Um

1205
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:18,280
How does How does the rest of the the
board feel?

1206
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:26,520
» I kind of feel like that if we took the
whole parapet off, get rid of it. Um

1207
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:29,800
there I don't think there is a privacy
kind of an issue from the west side.

1208
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:34,760
There's you know, there's nobody over
there to be able to see what's going on.

1209
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:40,080
Um I just think if we got rid of that
parapet wall, we'd be pretty much in

1210
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:43,400
compliance, but uh that's just me.
>> Yeah, no, I agree with you, Bill. I I

1211
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:48,440
would
I would be willing to vote in favor

1212
01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:53,080
of what we have here if we can just take
off the parapet and go to the railing.

1213
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:58,840
» I do like the design flare of the
parapet though. It made this cool and

1214
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:03,360
different. So, I mean if there's a
little bit of parapet instead of a

1215
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:08,400
handrail that has you know, some of the
the design elements. Uh albeit the

1216
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:11,840
dentals restudied for scale. um
I I think that would be fine.

1217
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:22,040
» When you say uh smaller, are you
thinking maybe a shorter parapet wall?

1218
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:27,080
» No, I'm I'm
I'm I'm looking to the length of it. Um

1219
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:31,040
so, yeah, that Brenna, if you want to go
back

1220
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:36,280
um for There you go.
So, the portion of the parapet wall that

1221
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:42,560
extends above the pitch of the garage
roof is what I propose eliminating and

1222
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:46,560
to just have the parapet actually where
there is a deck. That is sort of a false

1223
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:51,600
building element that's being tossed up
there that almost reads like a

1224
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:54,160
commercial uh marquee or parapet
>> Yes, it does.

1225
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:58,840
» more so than something that we would
find in the context of Madison's

1226
01:30:56,240 --> 01:31:02,840
residential historic district. So,
that's what's giving me pause is, you

1227
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:06,640
know,
precisely. Precisely.

1228
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:09,520
Um
>> I missed that. What did you say?

1229
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:12,280
What
Brenna, can

1230
01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:16,960
» She's She's
>> at the screen, the right here.

1231
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:16,960
» Yep.

1232
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:23,840
» And I think that, you know,
the applicant still gets their garage,

1233
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:29,200
they get a deck with privacy if they
want a solid parapet to Craigmont and uh

1234
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:32,480
all those great views and I think, you
know, aside from this question that

1235
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:35,480
we've been noodling over of the parapet,
that this is overall an excellent

1236
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:38,480
project that's going to add value to
this historic home.

1237
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:45,120
» I could go with that.

1238
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:52,600
» I I could as well.
So, given that we've discussed um

1239
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:58,200
what essentially be a conditional
approval uh pending the alteration of

1240
01:31:55,240 --> 01:32:02,640
the uh design to remove the parapet as
it uh is attached to the pitched garage

1241
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:06,120
roof,
prior to doing that, I would just ask

1242
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:10,280
the applicant, is that is that a
condition that is okay or would you

1243
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:13,560
prefer a different sort of re-studying
in that opportunity or would you be okay

1244
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:16,200
with what we've proposed?
>> I would be okay with the

1245
01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:20,000
but I would not be
happy

1246
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:23,560
paying much more than the standard
garage.

1247
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:27,200
But, you know, I really
I really need

1248
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:30,960
to enjoy the privacy that
we are afforded by that

1249
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:30,960
wall.

1250
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:39,360
» Which is completely understandable and
thank you for being amenable.

1251
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:44,360
» Thank you. This board really it exists
at the intersection between, you know,

1252
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:48,960
public myth of the historic district and
private ownership and ownership rights.

1253
01:32:46,440 --> 01:32:52,840
So, it's not popular what we do up here
sometimes.

1254
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:56,000
The mayor in his wisdom has appointed a
diversity of people up here with a

1255
01:32:54,360 --> 01:33:01,760
diversity of opinions. So, there might
be some do not approves. Um, take it as

1256
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:07,080
a just a vote of confidence in your
amazingly wonderful historic house and

1257
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:10,360
um, just that we're just balancing the
needs of the historic district and

1258
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:13,760
private ownership. So, it's kind of a
struggle, but thank you.

1259
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:19,360
» I think I'd also be remiss if I didn't
say something positive about our fellow

1260
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:22,840
board member and how nice it is to get a
decent set of drawings.

1261
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:31,960
And an original thought, those are
contrary to what the public might

1262
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:37,680
believe, innovative architecture and
different ideas are very much welcome

1263
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:42,000
and had we not had a lot of those
throughout our history, we wouldn't have

1264
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:42,000
such a cool town.

1265
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:51,560
Well, I might go ahead
even though it's somewhat unconventional

1266
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:54,680
for the chair to make a motion, but
since I was sort of the one who was

1267
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:59,720
articulating it earlier, I'll go ahead
and do it this time. Um,

1268
01:33:57,080 --> 01:34:06,120
I make a motion to approve on the
condition that the parapet be removed

1269
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:12,960
from that the parapet be removed from
the length of the garage itself,

1270
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:12,960
which does not include the deck.

1271
01:34:13,480 --> 01:34:16,200
» I'll second.

1272
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:21,600
» So, we've got a motion and a second.
Um

1273
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:24,400
» Do we want to roll call this one?
>> I think we should roll call this one.

1274
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,960
» Okay. Chris Cody?
>> Approve.

1275
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:28,840
» Happy Smith?
>> Do not approve.

1276
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:31,680
» Bill Jewel?
>> Approve.

1277
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:33,400
» Jared Anderson?
>> Approve.

1278
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:36,080
» Jed Skillman?
>> Approve.

1279
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:39,480
» Thank you very much.

1280
01:34:40,320 --> 01:34:47,160
All right. On with the next, Brenda.
>> All right. Next up is 745 West 3rd

1281
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:51,840
Street. This is a contributing structure
in the Folk Victorian style built in

1282
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:56,560
1890. It is zoned historic district
residential, and this is a request to

1283
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:59,120
open the enclosed windows on the back
porch.

1284
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:05,760
» Thank you.
>> Thank you. Yes, we're looking at this

1285
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:10,320
back porch which is not original to the
house. The the foundation is not the

1286
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:15,560
same. There's actually a window inside
uh between the basement and the

1287
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:19,480
the the the bottom of the porch here.
Uh the porch is basically an

1288
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:23,120
interstitial space to the house itself.
Um

1289
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:27,560
Originally, I not originally, but I
guess when they built this porch, I

1290
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:30,840
believe they had windows there, but you
can see that they've covered them up now

1291
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:35,960
with
the vinyl siding.

1292
01:35:32,440 --> 01:35:40,720
Uh we're looking at uh adding
four windows there.

1293
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:45,320
And what we'd like to do is use uh some
repurposed materials.

1294
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:49,880
Uh these are 22-in
by I believe 7-ft. Uh and they actually

1295
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:53,640
have safety glass in them, so there's no
issue as far as, you know, being too

1296
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:58,160
close to the floor. It's probably a lot
safer than a lot of the other

1297
01:35:55,920 --> 01:36:01,240
uh windows that we have currently in the
uh

1298
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:03,760
in the town that that that are that long
uh

1299
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:06,720
So I actually have a sample of it there.
You can't tell but it has the like the

1300
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:10,240
chicken wire. It's laminated and has the
chicken wire in between it.

1301
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:15,600
Uh
it's not conditioned in any way. It's

1302
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:20,600
not heated or cooled. It's just uh
We want to open that back up so it looks

1303
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:23,800
better. And we also want to replace the
Look at the replacing the the door.

1304
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:27,720
That's just a metal
door from the uh you know the '80s uh

1305
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:32,160
insulated metal door.
And and rebuild the uh steps going up to

1306
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:35,960
it.
Uh in addition to that we are going to

1307
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:41,120
finish off with a
uh cement board either Hardy or

1308
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:44,360
uh some something uh
Menards doesn't carry Hardy. They have

1309
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:47,560
another brand.
But uh we're looking at continuing the

1310
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:51,720
uh
the horizontal siding when we replace

1311
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:55,320
pull that off and replace it. It's uh
currently aluminum siding on it.

1312
01:36:55,920 --> 01:37:00,200
» Do you have four of them that are alike?
>> Four Four of them?

1313
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:03,800
» Yeah.
>> Yes. Yeah, they're they're four exactly

1314
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:05,960
the same size. They actually have five
of them but I can only fit four in

1315
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:10,200
there.
>> Are you going to be restoring them?

1316
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:13,200
» Yes.
>> Will the windows be openable?

1317
01:37:12,480 --> 01:37:15,800
» No.
>> So they're not going to be like

1318
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:19,560
casements and swing out.
>> No. No, not at all. They're they're just

1319
01:37:17,480 --> 01:37:21,240
a fixed pane uh
uh

1320
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:25,080
uh
windows, yeah.

1321
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:29,600
They're actually metal
clad wood.

1322
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:29,600
» Mhm.

1323
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:33,600
That's a metal clad?
>> Yes.

1324
01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:39,760
It doesn't doesn't look like it from
there but

1325
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,800
» It doesn't.
Is it metal on the other side?

1326
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:45,640
» Yes.
>> Am I missing Yeah, I'm missing

1327
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:49,960
something. Okay.
>> So you're going to put four of those

1328
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:52,640
door door window doors
in the on the back. Okay.

1329
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:55,920
» Yes.
And that's just old attic cuz it's uh

1330
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,040
you know, it's it's really dark in there
now.

1331
01:37:56,440 --> 01:38:01,280
» Uh-huh.
>> You know, it's it's a

1332
01:37:58,440 --> 01:38:04,360
the uh porch is also about 5-ft deep.
So, we're just looking for a place to

1333
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:07,800
you know, sit on the back porch and be
able to have it opened up to the the

1334
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:11,080
backyard there.
>> Since this is not the original historic

1335
01:38:09,480 --> 01:38:15,640
building itself, you know, we have much
more leniency, much more flexibility.

1336
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:19,800
So, it seems like a nice improvement.
>> Yeah, I I don't know when it was added.

1337
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:22,200
Place definitely was poured concrete on
the uh

1338
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:29,760
on the footers and uh then they built on
top of that. Like I said, and the only

1339
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:33,560
reason I knew that was
you know, you have the a window right

1340
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:36,280
now. There's a window between the porch
underneath it and the house itself,

1341
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:39,960
which obviously would have been
discovered up when they put the porch

1342
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:39,960
on.

1343
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:46,360
» Mr. Hayne, you must be pretty excited
about this. This is kind of nice to to

1344
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:50,560
use existing material and repurpose.
>> Yeah, exa- exactly.

1345
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:54,880
And uh
you know, obviously since it's not

1346
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:59,600
heated or cooled, you know,
the energy factor's not not not an issue

1347
01:38:57,080 --> 01:38:59,600
with it.

1348
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:04,200
» Are there any other questions for the
applicant?

1349
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:08,520
Thank you. Is there any public comment?

1350
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:13,960
» Well, that's an old picture you have of
our house. So, you don't have a newer

1351
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:16,440
one?
>> Yeah, our survey pictures have not been

1352
01:39:15,440 --> 01:39:20,080
updated yet.
>> Well, let's let's move on to board

1353
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:23,960
deliberation. I agree with what everyone
said. I think this is a fantastic

1354
01:39:21,440 --> 01:39:27,400
project. It's wonderful to see and I'd
be ready to entertain a motion.

1355
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:37,240
» I move the Madison Historic District
Board of Review

1356
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:43,600
approve the porch modifications with the
repurposed windows at

1357
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:47,360
745 West 3rd Street as proposed by the
applicant.

1358
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:49,160
» I will second that motion.
>> All in favor?

1359
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:51,920
» I.
>> I.

1360
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:56,680
» Any opposed?
Hearing none. Thank you.

1361
01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:56,680
» Congratulations.

1362
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:09,360
» I'm sorry. I don't know why that address
isn't correct. That isn't correct. Our

1363
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:11,760
next one is 215 West Main Street.
Um

1364
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:15,000
Let's see.
It's still there in the app. Okay.

1365
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:20,440
Um this is a contributing and
individually eligible structure um in

1366
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:25,720
the Federal and Italianate styles built
in 1830 zoned Central Business District

1367
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:30,720
and this request is to build an addition
to accommodate extra kitchen space for a

1368
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:30,720
bakery.

1369
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:38,120
» Hello. My name is Gabriella Bogdan and I
bought 215 West Main a couple of months

1370
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:43,080
ago
and uh with the intent of using the

1371
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:47,120
space as a bakery.
Um

1372
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:53,240
I think it's maybe a little bit small to
see, but the yellow outline is the

1373
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:59,640
current footprint and there is um at the
front of Main Street, the building uh my

1374
01:40:57,200 --> 01:41:06,240
building touches the next building next
to it. They're a lot line. But then for

1375
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:11,080
the remainder of the lot, it is
um a tiny little alleyway that is

1376
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:17,640
grass
and there is a gate or was a gate there.

1377
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:24,400
So, we are in the process of uncovering
um some of the natural uh original

1378
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:31,240
materials underneath um the exterior and
working on uh some interior

1379
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:38,800
renovations as well. And so, um we do
plan to put the gate back, but the

1380
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:44,280
um red slashes are sort of the
extension. So, there is a um

1381
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:50,600
non-original HVAC
building um kind of part of that red

1382
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:56,400
space right now um that had some the
structure of that HVAC building had some

1383
01:41:53,760 --> 01:42:01,120
uh roof and structural damage, so it
needs to be replaced anyway.

1384
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:08,240
The actual HVAC unit itself needs to be
replaced as well. So, rather than just

1385
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:13,640
replacing just the few square feet, um
we would like to extend um partway

1386
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:18,120
through the alley so that I can add a
little bit more space to accommodate the

1387
01:42:15,440 --> 01:42:22,280
future use of the building.
And then um as I mentioned, we are going

1388
01:42:20,480 --> 01:42:29,280
to rebuild the gate.
Um and that addition actually will not

1389
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:31,800
be visible from any
views.

1390
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:38,400
» Thank you very much. Are there any
questions for the applicant from the

1391
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:44,000
board?
>> Glad to hear a bakery's coming in.

1392
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:46,520
Um so, the building that's yellow,
>> Mhm.

1393
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:51,480
» all the way to the back, is that is that
all going to be bakery space?

1394
01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:54,840
» It is not all going to be bakery space.
There is going to be a short-term rental

1395
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:58,400
in the back, which has been approved
through zoning already.

1396
01:42:56,520 --> 01:43:02,960
» Okay.
I have a question for staff. So, had

1397
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:05,120
they built the gate first, would this be
publicly viewable from the public

1398
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,280
right-of-way?
>> No.

1399
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:09,600
» No. So, it wouldn't even be in our
purview had they done the gate first.

1400
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:12,360
» Yes.
>> And when the gate's done, it won't be in

1401
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:13,720
our purview again.
>> Yes.

1402
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:16,520
» Okay.
>> Uh-huh.

1403
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:20,000
» We're kind of in a an interesting window
here.

1404
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:24,000
» Well, that's that's uh
a helpful clarification.

1405
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:26,640
I'll just say to the applicant,
congratulations on buying a wonderful

1406
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:30,480
historic building.
>> Mhm.

1407
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:34,280
I'm very excited about the project.
>> The back of it looks like it's air

1408
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:36,800
conditioned pretty well.
Along that way

1409
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:41,920
» is completely open to your building, it
looks like. So

1410
01:43:39,440 --> 01:43:41,920
» Yes.

1411
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:49,680
» Are there any other questions from the
board for the applicant?

1412
01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:49,680
Thank you. Is there any public comment?

1413
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:57,760
Let's move on to board deliver- Oh, we
do have a public comment.

1414
01:43:55,440 --> 01:44:02,080
» Hi, my name is Jackie Fraser and I work
at the Tello's.

1415
01:43:59,320 --> 01:44:04,120
My question is, are you going back to
the end of this driveway?

1416
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:08,200
» No.
>> Do you see the Or where's the gate?

1417
01:44:06,440 --> 01:44:11,360
» The gate is going to go exactly where it
is now, at the back of the structure.

1418
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:15,000
Can you see that? She drew it up a
little bit.

1419
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:19,360
So, the old gate that was there, we just
removed it because it was falling down.

1420
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:24,960
So, we're just going to put the
new gate back where the old gate was.

1421
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,960
» My only concern is

1422
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:30,240
are we going to be able to get our
trucks out of there?

1423
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:33,520
» Should be. No change.
>> There's no change in that part.

1424
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:37,640
» Not at all. We're not extending the
building out.

1425
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,640
» That's what I wanted to

1426
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:42,960
» Thank you. Is there any other public
comment?

1427
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:49,240
I'll thank you the applicant for
answering that question, resolving that.

1428
01:44:46,480 --> 01:44:50,880
Um moving on to board deliberation.
Uh

1429
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:55,160
this is
minimally within our purview for a very

1430
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:58,560
temporary amount of time and it's going
to enable

1431
01:44:56,480 --> 01:45:01,720
uh a business on Main Street.
So, I for one am in complete support of

1432
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:04,640
this.
>> I feel the same way.

1433
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:07,960
100%
>> I agree.

1434
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:11,640
» I agree. I also just want to say I
really appreciate the thoughtfulness in

1435
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:16,320
your description of what you're doing.
We've noticed that you

1436
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:20,280
exposed the wood on the side that faces
Comfort Station and here you say you

1437
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:23,960
were going to be attempting to restore
that and you know, patch where you can.

1438
01:45:22,520 --> 01:45:28,040
Thank you. Thank you so much for doing
that. A lot of people in town are

1439
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:31,800
covering up the old wood siding and it
it you know that you're appreciating it

1440
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:35,120
and keeping it. That's just a wonderful
thing. Thank you so much for that and

1441
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:39,160
the other careful things you're doing
with this really old 1830 building. It's

1442
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:42,160
just a fabulous building. So,
congratulations.

1443
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:52,440
» Well, would someone like to make a
motion?

1444
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:59,360
» I would.
I move that the Madison HDR accept the

1445
01:45:55,280 --> 01:46:05,000
application from Gabriella Bogdan at 215
West Main for an addition onto the back

1446
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:06,600
of the building for a bakery.
>> Do you have a second?

1447
01:46:05,440 --> 01:46:08,400
» I second.
>> All those in favor?

1448
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:10,920
» I.
>> I.

1449
01:46:09,480 --> 01:46:14,640
» Any opposed?
Hearing none.

1450
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:14,640
Thank you.

1451
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:27,840
» Okay, next is 117 West Main Street. This
is another contributing and individually

1452
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:32,720
eligible structure in the federal and
Italianate style built in 1850. Zone

1453
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:37,720
central business district
and this is a request to add a new door

1454
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:42,840
on the west facade to provide proper ADA
compliant entrance to the office.

1455
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:48,320
» Good evening. I'm Chad Lewis. I
purchased 117 West Main Street about a

1456
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:54,000
year and a half ago. Um it's at the
opposite block here of city hall. It has

1457
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:59,000
operated an Edward Jones financial
services office for over 45 years.

1458
01:46:57,320 --> 01:47:05,000
Um and
Edward Jones as a corporation would not

1459
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:09,720
renew the lease unless we made the
building ADA compliant for clients and

1460
01:47:08,440 --> 01:47:15,360
the public.
Um so

1461
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:20,480
we have a 4-in step snap into the
building. Um we did not want to put a

1462
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:23,920
ramp on Main Street as there's no other
ramps um

1463
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:28,320
out on Main Street, so we did not want
to do that. So, our alternative was to

1464
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:32,360
build a,
um, a new door

1465
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:38,120
on the west side of the building and
have a small ramp that would make this

1466
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:38,120
ADA compliant.

1467
01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:44,520
» Thank you. Does the board have any
questions for the applicant?

1468
01:47:42,640 --> 01:47:48,520
» Is Edward Jones is out of the building
now? They're gone, right?

1469
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:53,000
» No, it we're currently
remodeling to make it ADA compliant so

1470
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:58,160
we can stay.
We service a lot of families that live

1471
01:47:55,480 --> 01:48:02,840
downtown and would like to remain
downtown. Edward Jones would not let us

1472
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:06,240
stay there if we did not make it ADA
compliant.

1473
01:48:04,040 --> 01:48:08,800
So, we're in the process of trying to do
so.

1474
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:11,480
» Where would the ramp go?
>> Where?

1475
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:14,160
» Where is it? Interior of the door? Do
you open the door and then go up a ramp?

1476
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:18,280
Is that it or
>> No, it would be on the sidewalk.

1477
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:21,640
» On the sidewalk there?
>> west, yeah.

1478
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:24,840
» So, you come out what, about 3 ft with
your ramp? About that kind of width for

1479
01:48:23,480 --> 01:48:28,840
wheelchair access?
>> ADA compliant needs to be a 4-ft ramp.

1480
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:34,800
» Four
Has to be 4 ft wide.

1481
01:48:32,320 --> 01:48:34,800
Um

1482
01:48:34,920 --> 01:48:39,560
» How
did you say that you looked into putting

1483
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:42,520
it right on Main Street or you didn't
want to put it on Main Street cuz

1484
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:46,360
there's no other ramps?
Did you look into what it would have

1485
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:51,520
looked like on Main Street? Like how far
out it would have had to come?

1486
01:48:49,440 --> 01:48:54,960
Like how far extended onto the Main
Street sidewalk?

1487
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:59,120
» Like how wide or how long?
>> How long?

1488
01:48:56,880 --> 01:48:59,120
» Right.

1489
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:04,720
We we did look at it.
>> Yeah, they they actually I I I think

1490
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:06,920
Edward Jones looked at that prior to me
being involved, but basically your

1491
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,560
landing
>> say your name for the record just so we

1492
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:12,200
have
>> Brian Martin, 104 Sycamore Street.

1493
01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:15,920
Um
It it it has to do with, um,

1494
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:20,200
you know, with your egress and direction
of travel. So, that landing outside of

1495
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:24,400
the door has to be 5 ft by 5 ft clear.
It's a It's a 5 ft diameter circle for a

1496
01:49:23,080 --> 01:49:27,760
wheelchair
movement. It's the the landing is

1497
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:32,200
different than than the actual ramp. The
ramp can be smaller. The ramp can be

1498
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:36,000
down to almost 36 in between handrails.
But, it would be it would be a

1499
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:39,600
substantial impact on that sidewalk. 5
ft landing plus additional handrail

1500
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:43,640
around because you can't have that
obstruction. So, it would be a

1501
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:46,640
tremendous impact on on Main Street for
sure.

1502
01:49:44,320 --> 01:49:49,800
» So, you're saying 5 ft kind of onto the
sidewalk of Main Street.

1503
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:53,440
» 5 ft 5 ft plus
>> Plus, and then you have a hand Then you

1504
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:57,280
have cuz I was looking at the Girls Inc.
building

1505
01:49:54,520 --> 01:50:01,800
and that one um is a pretty substantial
structure. Uh that is a beautiful brick

1506
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:05,040
wall you're cutting into. I know you're
already aware of this. I'm not telling

1507
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:09,440
you anything. Um and it's not been
altered in any way. A lot of our brick

1508
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:13,680
walls have had previous doors and
windows, but this one's just a pristine

1509
01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:17,640
beautiful brick wall. So, that's a
painful thing. So,

1510
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:22,200
um Edward Jones made this conditional
upon their staying. They are going if we

1511
01:50:19,600 --> 01:50:24,160
don't make it ADA compliant. Is that
correct?

1512
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:28,200
» Yeah, I mean I think
certainly the compliance and any ADA

1513
01:50:26,440 --> 01:50:32,200
responsibility is important for our city
as it as we grow we go we sure as we

1514
01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:35,440
grow regardless.
>> Yeah.

1515
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:39,480
» Um but no, I really think it's it's uh I
mean call the lesser of two evils. I

1516
01:50:37,480 --> 01:50:45,240
mean I don't I don't I think we can be
accommodating as we can. Um again, you

1517
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:49,520
know, location location is specific to
the floor plan on the inside. You know,

1518
01:50:47,680 --> 01:50:53,040
based on cuz again the the ADA
responsibility is not just getting

1519
01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:58,440
someone in the door, but it's also
throughout the entire office. So, that

1520
01:50:54,720 --> 01:51:02,200
front say that front reception area
needs, you know, seating and needs desk

1521
01:51:00,440 --> 01:51:06,320
space that that can accommodate, you
know, all capacities. So,

1522
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:09,120
again, it's really kind of dictated just
based on ADA compliance throughout

1523
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:13,320
through.
>> That's why the door is where it is.

1524
01:51:10,920 --> 01:51:16,480
» Yes. Up towards the front. Okay. Okay.
Looks like Sounds like a lot of thought

1525
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:19,760
has gone into this and you have really
thoroughly explored the option that

1526
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:23,560
wouldn't have cut into the brick wall,
so I appreciate that. Thank you.

1527
01:51:21,200 --> 01:51:26,920
» also working with
working with Tony Steinhart and Chris

1528
01:51:25,240 --> 01:51:30,080
Hale on
modifying

1529
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:32,400
the sidewalk
cuz the

1530
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:36,520
Edward Jones
office had sent a uh

1531
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:40,800
sent this design
but extending the ramp down the

1532
01:51:38,480 --> 01:51:44,080
sidewalk, which would have again been
quite a uh

1533
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:48,280
an obstruction of sorts, you know,
visual if nothing else. So, that

1534
01:51:46,480 --> 01:51:52,200
sidewalk is in terrible shape, curb is
in terrible shape. So, we've got our

1535
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:56,480
initial approval to be able to modify
that. Technically, what you'd call 5-ft

1536
01:51:54,320 --> 01:52:00,560
landing out that door and then and then
still be compliant within the grade on

1537
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:03,800
the sidewalk, too. Basically, there'll
be there'll be

1538
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:06,280
next to nothing there as far as, you
know, the sidewalk grade for the most

1539
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:09,640
part to be compliant with ADA
responsibility, but it won't be an

1540
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:13,480
extended version of a ramp, which is
what was originally

1541
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:17,560
proposed, anyway. So.
>> Could you put a ramp inside? Just go in

1542
01:52:16,040 --> 01:52:21,680
this door and start up
>> it's all it it affects the the floor

1543
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:25,400
space. You know, you I mean, what comes
up time and again on the start board is

1544
01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:29,160
limited capacity on any uh you know,
these these narrow lots. It's the same

1545
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:33,240
concept in there as far as his business.
It it it affects the use of that space

1546
01:52:31,480 --> 01:52:35,880
so much inside that And again, they
looked at that on the

1547
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:39,560
first entry door.
>> We did look at that.

1548
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:42,000
» How much do you have to rise up from the
street?

1549
01:52:40,040 --> 01:52:45,080
» It's from the sidewalk. It's about 4 in.
>> 4 in?

1550
01:52:43,080 --> 01:52:48,760
» It has to do with It has to do with so
so

1551
01:52:46,280 --> 01:52:52,040
travel is important as far as how you
come into it, you know, you go through a

1552
01:52:50,520 --> 01:52:56,120
door, you have to have a landing space
on the outside. You know, your your your

1553
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:59,480
ramp is specific to your slope. You have
to have a landing space on the inside.

1554
01:52:57,560 --> 01:53:04,120
So, it really takes up a lot more room
than just getting through the door.

1555
01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:09,400
» We had a question here uh before this
board

1556
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:14,920
4 or 5 months ago, historic building and
involved

1557
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:19,720
significant alteration of a
gem of a historic building for ADA

1558
01:53:18,080 --> 01:53:23,000
compliance.
And uh

1559
01:53:22,120 --> 01:53:26,560
uh
after it passed

1560
01:53:25,160 --> 01:53:32,600
uh
I went home

1561
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:38,440
and did a search on ADA compliance
for historic buildings, which this one

1562
01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:43,400
is. There are seven clauses that
Now, of course, that's federal. That's

1563
01:53:40,480 --> 01:53:47,040
not Edward Jones. Edward Jones wants us
in, you're not doing this because of

1564
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:51,960
uh
a federal

1565
01:53:49,120 --> 01:53:56,200
ADA requirements because there are are
several

1566
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:59,440
classifications of of I think it was
seven

1567
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:03,120
ADA requirements that you wouldn't have
to do this.

1568
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:07,200
So, first off, to be clear, this is
strictly for Edward Jones, right?

1569
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:13,080
Doesn't have anything to do with anybody
coming out of Washington, D.C. because

1570
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:18,080
this building is not ADA requirement
now, and the ADA has been around for

1571
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:21,520
over 30 years. So,
uh

1572
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:23,440
this is this is
all

1573
01:54:22,480 --> 01:54:26,240
uh
uh

1574
01:54:24,440 --> 01:54:29,600
directed from
up the corporate ladder, correct?

1575
01:54:28,040 --> 01:54:32,560
» Chad, would you mind if I rephrase your
question cuz I had the same one, but

1576
01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:36,840
wanted to pose it a little bit more
directly. Had have there been any

1577
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:40,240
conversations with Edward Jones about
the fact that there are ADA waivers

1578
01:54:38,600 --> 01:54:44,080
available for historic buildings and
that you do not need to comply with the

1579
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:49,560
ADA in a building like this?
>> Thank you, Chris.

1580
01:54:46,080 --> 01:54:53,720
» Yes, there have been discussions and
they wanted ADA compliance.

1581
01:54:52,120 --> 01:54:57,000
» I understand that sometimes that can be
a condition of your insurance policy, so

1582
01:54:55,640 --> 01:55:01,000
there are other legitimate
considerations, but I really appreciate

1583
01:54:59,040 --> 01:55:05,880
you bringing that up, Chad, because ADA
waivers are such an important tool in

1584
01:55:03,480 --> 01:55:09,240
communities like ours to allow these
historic buildings to remain in service

1585
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:12,680
without having to chop them all up to
put ramps and all this other stuff

1586
01:55:10,680 --> 01:55:15,600
everywhere. Sometimes you just can't.
You know, you've got a chance here to

1587
01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:19,840
make it work, but sometimes you just
can't.

1588
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:24,560
» Cuz I looked at it and uh
it's about a 4-ft

1589
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:27,920
step up to get in the front door.
>> 4 in

1590
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:31,920
» 4 in I mean, excuse me, 4 in.
Um

1591
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:37,600
that whole front of the building is not
original. That was put on sometime in

1592
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:41,160
the '70s or '80s. So,
we got some room to work here.

1593
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:48,000
Um
and you also are redesigning the whole

1594
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:49,720
inside of the store anyways, right?
Yes.

1595
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:52,840
» complete. It's it's a it's a
modification of of hallway

1596
01:55:52,040 --> 01:55:56,080
» Okay.
>> for accessibility reasons.

1597
01:55:53,800 --> 01:56:00,200
» Okay.
How about removing the stone sill that

1598
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:05,480
you have to go up
and you put the ramp in there and you

1599
01:56:02,840 --> 01:56:11,560
either put a door
or recess the door somewhat like they do

1600
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:15,600
at the um
What's the Gallery 21?

1601
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:18,960
» We can I think we can talk about this
during the board deliberation about

1602
01:56:17,320 --> 01:56:21,400
design changes we might be interested
in. Um

1603
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:26,600
You know, I don't I don't want to jump
jump the gun on those conversations.

1604
01:56:24,880 --> 01:56:32,200
Does anyone have any questions for the
applicant?

1605
01:56:27,640 --> 01:56:37,080
» I have a question for city staff. So,
is there

1606
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:41,760
is the street department going to widen
the sidewalk?

1607
01:56:39,200 --> 01:56:46,880
» Um I don't believe they have the full
plans for for what they're doing there

1608
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:51,640
yet. Um that has been a discussion, but
I don't know if that has been finalized.

1609
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:54,680
» So, I guess just to clarify, what is the
actual width of the ramp that will be

1610
01:56:53,480 --> 01:56:59,080
placed there?
>> So, so technically there's there's

1611
01:56:56,360 --> 01:57:03,680
really no ramp per se. It's the It's the
the landing is the the the area of of

1612
01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:09,600
major concern as far as how much space
it takes up. So, technically

1613
01:57:06,680 --> 01:57:14,520
a flat ramp out of that lane out of that
doorway, centered on the doorway, is the

1614
01:57:12,040 --> 01:57:18,320
first step and then transitioning grade
back to proper slope to the sidewalk,

1615
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:21,800
which we have some modification we can
do

1616
01:57:19,200 --> 01:57:25,680
on the brick pavers. But, again,
uh Chris and Tony both have been on site

1617
01:57:23,520 --> 01:57:30,400
a couple different times discussing
when basically we can kind of lead that

1618
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:33,880
charge as far as get our our um
our landing and our proper slope in and

1619
01:57:32,120 --> 01:57:37,360
then all the sidewalk kind of come comes
back to that. Because, again, the the

1620
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:41,560
sidewalk is in terrible shape to the
south, which is really probably the

1621
01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:44,360
the major issue of of transition.
Otherwise, we'll be compliant with

1622
01:57:42,920 --> 01:57:47,400
everything else ramped to the west and
to the north.

1623
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:51,560
» Okay.
All right. Thank you. Are there any

1624
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:55,320
other questions from the board?
>> I think the one that the comment about

1625
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:58,600
trying to go in the front, you also have
to remember

1626
01:57:56,640 --> 01:58:02,120
the requirement of width of the doorway.
Not only has the door, but you also have

1627
01:57:59,880 --> 01:58:04,920
clearance on each side of the door. And
even though you say that's not an

1628
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:08,360
original storefront, which I understand,
there's still a steel there's a steel

1629
01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:11,440
and/or cast column
just inside to the right of that door

1630
01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:14,080
that's supporting that cast lintel
that's still probably a carryover from

1631
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:15,320
the original.
>> Okay.

1632
01:58:14,480 --> 01:58:19,680
» So,
that's a tremendous modification of

1633
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:24,000
making that opening compliant. Cuz you
can't If If If If you walk in that door,

1634
01:58:22,720 --> 01:58:27,120
you know, within inches there's a
there's a cast column to your right and

1635
01:58:25,680 --> 01:58:29,840
then there's a sidewalk to your left.
And you need you need much more

1636
01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:31,960
clearance than that to to make that
possible. So,

1637
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:34,240
» Thank you.
>> into that.

1638
01:58:32,600 --> 01:58:38,400
» You can't widen that door because of
that cast iron support.

1639
01:58:36,280 --> 01:58:40,760
» One of the reasons, yes. Clearance on
the sidewalk coming into the left is

1640
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:43,840
also another reason.
>> Yeah.

1641
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:47,880
» Multiple reasons. And again,
transitioning that ramp inside, it it's

1642
01:58:46,280 --> 01:58:51,920
how it affects it's a small office to be
in, so how it affects the floor space in

1643
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:55,200
there is also just doesn't it's it just
doesn't work really well.

1644
01:58:53,400 --> 01:58:58,560
» Mhm.
Thank you for those clarifications. Are

1645
01:58:56,840 --> 01:59:04,080
there any additional questions from the
board?

1646
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:04,080
Is there any public comment?

1647
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:12,360
All right, thank you. We'll move on to
board deliberation. Um

1648
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:18,840
I think it's unfortunate that uh the
long-term tenant is unwilling to seek

1649
01:59:15,480 --> 01:59:23,280
just an ADA uh waiver here.
But uh they are a very long-term tenant.

1650
01:59:21,720 --> 01:59:29,120
We do want to keep our businesses on
Main Street. And I think that this is a

1651
01:59:25,480 --> 01:59:34,520
reasonable accommodation. Um I for one,
just to comment on the conversation that

1652
01:59:31,200 --> 01:59:39,120
sort of arose, uh would never support a
ramp on Main Street. I see the

1653
01:59:36,480 --> 01:59:43,520
streetscape of Main Street as sacrosanct
and one of the most important aspects of

1654
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:47,200
our historic district. So, you know, if
this was a mid-block building, I think

1655
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:50,520
I'd be telling him to do it in the rear.
I think they're fortunate that they

1656
01:59:48,480 --> 01:59:55,840
happen to be at the end and could just
do it on the side. Um

1657
01:59:53,120 --> 02:00:01,560
and I you know, I I don't see how they
could accomplish the goal that they have

1658
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:01,560
any other way.

1659
02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:09,080
» I uh
I I agree with everything you're saying,

1660
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:12,680
Chris. I I am
I still am just slightly concerned about

1661
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:17,680
digging into the side of the building
solely because

1662
02:00:14,480 --> 02:00:23,760
uh the city did a study in 2022 that
specified that this building

1663
02:00:20,600 --> 02:00:29,640
uh is one of only 134 significant
structures in the historic district. Um

1664
02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:33,840
and that was approved on by city council
and and the mayor's office and whatnot.

1665
02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:38,360
Um
it does concern me doing new openings

1666
02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:44,000
just because we typically are not
supposed to do that on a building that

1667
02:00:41,000 --> 02:00:48,080
is on the same list at, you believe it
or not, as

1668
02:00:45,560 --> 02:00:52,360
the Linier, the Shrewsbury Windle. uh
all of these other important properties.

1669
02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:56,120
But,
I also understand that

1670
02:00:56,920 --> 02:01:02,920
we're kind of in a tough a tough spot
here cuz obviously we don't want Edward

1671
02:01:00,760 --> 02:01:08,720
Jones to leave downtown.
Um so,

1672
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:08,720
that's kind of where I I'm I'm torn.

1673
02:01:09,080 --> 02:01:14,840
» Yeah, I think just to be clear, we're
not evaluating this in any way, shape,

1674
02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:18,240
or form based on our desire to not have
or to have Edward Jones on our main

1675
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:21,840
street. This is purely about the
building and whether this complies with

1676
02:01:20,120 --> 02:01:25,360
the guidelines. And
you are correct that the guidelines

1677
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:30,760
generally frown upon the creation of new
openings, um but they are just

1678
02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:30,760
guidelines.

1679
02:01:32,560 --> 02:01:38,560
» I'm with Jared um on this. Really don't
want to

1680
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:43,720
put a new opening in such a beautiful
brick wall. But, um I do like the idea

1681
02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:48,960
that we're going to have almost the best
possible scenario for creating an ADA

1682
02:01:47,200 --> 02:01:54,440
compliant entrance. We have one of the
most wonderful historically

1683
02:01:51,720 --> 02:01:59,200
um sensitive contractors in town working
the project in Brian Martin. You know,

1684
02:01:57,440 --> 02:02:02,800
we have a long-term tenant. You know, I
think there's worthy goals here and

1685
02:02:01,240 --> 02:02:08,600
maybe it's a good place for an
exception. But, yeah, I really hate

1686
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:08,600
busting into that brick wall.

1687
02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:16,560
» I can't support
this.

1688
02:02:13,560 --> 02:02:16,560
So, um

1689
02:02:16,640 --> 02:02:24,560
I think uh
discussion with

1690
02:02:21,400 --> 02:02:29,720
upper management of Edward Jones
letting them know it's a historic

1691
02:02:26,160 --> 02:02:34,680
building. What did we say? 135 of these
of the top-tier buildings

1692
02:02:32,320 --> 02:02:39,760
of of the couple thousand that we have
in downtown Madison.

1693
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:39,760
Um

1694
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:43,720
um

1695
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:51,000
And they have been there so long
there had to have been some

1696
02:02:49,280 --> 02:02:54,520
precipitating
incident

1697
02:02:53,040 --> 02:02:59,960
somewhere
uh for them to come make this decision.

1698
02:02:57,800 --> 02:03:04,680
What's what happened? You know, why did
this happen? Unless it's just a

1699
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:09,400
corporate uh policy
in which case they can be flexible, too.

1700
02:03:10,480 --> 02:03:16,320
» Yeah, I uh
I we have to rely upon the

1701
02:03:14,600 --> 02:03:21,360
representation of the applicant that
they did do

1702
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:25,880
what they could to
try and have Edward Jones make an

1703
02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:29,920
exception from their corporate policy.
And I very much appreciated their

1704
02:03:27,640 --> 02:03:34,000
response to to that specific question
that we had.

1705
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:39,960
I don't think it's within our power to
compel a applicant to attempt to

1706
02:03:38,320 --> 02:03:43,080
address something that with their
tenants with the tenants' needs and the

1707
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:48,920
tenants' policies. I think all that
we're willing we're able to look at are

1708
02:03:45,240 --> 02:03:54,640
the physical alterations which um
you have the creation of a new opening

1709
02:03:51,640 --> 02:04:00,480
which is not desirable. You have ADA
compliance for this building, which is

1710
02:03:57,080 --> 02:04:04,680
desirable, although perhaps unnecessary.
Um

1711
02:04:02,280 --> 02:04:08,800
it's uh it's a it's a tough call, and
obviously I think there's going to be a

1712
02:04:05,920 --> 02:04:08,800
split vote here.

1713
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:16,320
Would anyone like to make a motion one
way or the other?

1714
02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:27,240
» I move that the Madison Historic
District Board of Review approve the the

1715
02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:29,800
ADA modification at 117 West Main
Street.

1716
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:35,160
Um
uh as proposed um

1717
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:38,240
by the uh by the owner and by the
contractor here.

1718
02:04:38,840 --> 02:04:45,840
» We have a motion. We have a second?
>> I second the motion.

1719
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:47,440
» Yeah, let's do a roll call vote. Brenna?
>> Chris Cody?

1720
02:04:46,680 --> 02:04:48,880
» Approve.
>> Happy Smith?

1721
02:04:48,160 --> 02:04:50,200
» Approve.
>> Bill Jewel?

1722
02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:53,000
» Approve.
>> Jared Anderson?

1723
02:04:53,240 --> 02:04:57,760
» Approve.
>> Jed Skillman?

1724
02:04:55,400 --> 02:04:57,760
» No.

1725
02:04:58,520 --> 02:05:04,000
» Well, thank you very much. And just also
want to note to my fellow board members,

1726
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:07,800
I thought that was a really good
conversation about a very difficult

1727
02:05:05,960 --> 02:05:11,280
application for a lot of ways. We've had
some tough ones tonight, guys.

1728
02:05:14,240 --> 02:05:19,760
Okay, Brenna.
>> Okay.

1729
02:05:16,000 --> 02:05:24,120
Um our last application tonight is 1020
East 1st Street. This is currently an

1730
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:28,120
empty lot. It is zoned historic district
residential.

1731
02:05:25,680 --> 02:05:31,800
And um this request is to build a new
residential structure on this vacant

1732
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:34,880
lot.
>> Thank you. Is the applicant here?

1733
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:49,200
Jerry Bryner?
>> My name is Ed Demery.

1734
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:51,960
» Owner, builder.
>> Good evening, gentlemen.

1735
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:58,520
Um is there anything you'd like to tell
us about your project?

1736
02:05:57,240 --> 02:06:03,080
» Yes.
Similar to the other homes in the

1737
02:06:00,040 --> 02:06:06,480
location as far as
footprint.

1738
02:06:05,640 --> 02:06:10,240
And
the basement with stone.

1739
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:13,560
We
can burn the wood siding, which is a

1740
02:06:12,120 --> 02:06:18,080
tongue and groove,
and it's manufactured locally

1741
02:06:16,040 --> 02:06:22,360
by this company.
He has built somewhere in the

1742
02:06:19,400 --> 02:06:26,680
neighborhood of 200 homes. This is
It's sticked up like any other home.

1743
02:06:24,560 --> 02:06:31,320
It's just got this really nice Eastern
pine wood

1744
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:31,320
that is horizontally laid.

1745
02:06:31,520 --> 02:06:35,920
It holds up very well. It's going to be
treated.

1746
02:06:56,480 --> 02:07:00,320
» Thank you. Are there any questions from
the board?

1747
02:06:58,640 --> 02:07:03,160
» Could you describe the siding a little
bit better? I'm still a little little

1748
02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:07,920
fuzzy on that.
>> The siding is an eastern white pine and

1749
02:07:05,680 --> 02:07:10,440
it's laid horizontally with a tongue and
a male and female tongue and groove

1750
02:07:09,640 --> 02:07:14,440
engagement.
>> Mhm.

1751
02:07:11,640 --> 02:07:19,200
» It's a common old world club.
>> Okay. The corners, kind of hard to tell

1752
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:23,960
there, are you log style corners,
overlap kind of?

1753
02:07:20,240 --> 02:07:29,000
» That is correct, dovetail style.
>> That could be done either way. You know,

1754
02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:33,600
I had two options and I I I thought it
was suitable. I mean, it's stained down.

1755
02:07:35,320 --> 02:07:41,680
» So, are the boards uh kind of rounded
like a log cabin look?

1756
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:46,360
» Uh no, ma'am. They are uh horizontal
similar to your other architecture like

1757
02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:49,640
the previous picture you showed for the
bakery.

1758
02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:53,920
Uh it's a horizontal and it's a flat
siding.

1759
02:07:51,840 --> 02:07:56,400
» You don't have a photograph?
>> Uh we have a

1760
02:07:55,200 --> 02:08:00,200
We have a
full size brand of this. I mean, it's

1761
02:07:58,680 --> 02:08:04,160
out in the car.
>> Oh, okay. Well, maybe let's see how it

1762
02:08:02,280 --> 02:08:06,960
goes here. So, yeah.
Okay.

1763
02:08:05,480 --> 02:08:11,560
» Are there any other questions from board
members for the applicant?

1764
02:08:10,040 --> 02:08:14,160
Thank Thank you. Is there any public
comment?

1765
02:08:14,840 --> 02:08:19,840
Hearing none, we'll move on to the board
deliberation. Um I had the same

1766
02:08:18,640 --> 02:08:23,360
question. I think one of the sheets
actually says log cabin on it. So, I was

1767
02:08:21,880 --> 02:08:26,360
wondering about the profile of that
siding.

1768
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:31,120
Um I'm relieved to hear that it's a flat
profile and it sounds like a high

1769
02:08:27,880 --> 02:08:34,000
quality um plan for the siding.
>> Yeah, and the inside's

1770
02:08:33,480 --> 02:08:37,600
not going to
>> I'm sorry, we're we've got board

1771
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:42,440
deliberation now, so we got to
We might ask you another question, but

1772
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:47,800
um
How does everyone else feel?

1773
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:51,680
» Um I'm um
So everybody loves downtown Madison and

1774
02:08:50,320 --> 02:08:56,680
I think one of the reasons we like it is
because it has this cohesiveness. It was

1775
02:08:54,200 --> 02:09:00,440
built, you know, between 1830 and 1870
and we got like the same house repeated

1776
02:08:58,480 --> 02:09:04,280
all over the place, so there's this real
continuity. And when you put something

1777
02:09:02,120 --> 02:09:08,240
in that doesn't go with everything
around it, it kind of has a jarring

1778
02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:12,640
effect. So that's the only thing I'm
worried about here. You have really a

1779
02:09:10,760 --> 02:09:17,920
bunch of houses over there that look
very similar. They're board and batten,

1780
02:09:14,520 --> 02:09:21,480
white painted with faux um veneer um
like stone or brick on the lower story,

1781
02:09:19,680 --> 02:09:27,360
which I understand you are having here.
And then the top, but every building

1782
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:30,760
over there is sort of wide board plank
siding, doesn't have the corner

1783
02:09:29,080 --> 02:09:35,360
detailing There. There it is right
there. The board and batten look. So

1784
02:09:33,320 --> 02:09:38,400
they're all the same over there. So then
if you build one that looks different,

1785
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:42,480
then everybody wants their house to look
different. I do understand that. But if

1786
02:09:41,040 --> 02:09:46,160
you build one thing that looks different
in a whole cluster of

1787
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:49,200
I think it's about six or seven or eight
houses now over there. It's going to

1788
02:09:48,120 --> 02:09:52,360
kind of
stand out. I guess it can stand out good

1789
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:57,200
or it can maybe stand out like whoa,
what's that?

1790
02:09:54,040 --> 02:10:01,680
Right. So that's maybe a concern here is
this the compatibility and the the sort

1791
02:09:59,560 --> 02:10:06,080
of a fabric over there of things that
fit in with each other.

1792
02:10:03,480 --> 02:10:08,440
» Corners and all.
>> Well,

1793
02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:14,080
Happy, I think you're exactly right
about a new uh

1794
02:10:11,080 --> 02:10:17,320
design typology emerging over on this
far east side of town, but I do have to

1795
02:10:15,720 --> 02:10:23,640
take issue with one thing that you said
about Madison being built between 1830

1796
02:10:19,480 --> 02:10:27,520
and the 1870s. I live in a 1909 house
that I love.

1797
02:10:25,600 --> 02:10:30,880
There are many
different different types of buildings

1798
02:10:29,440 --> 02:10:34,000
in Madison. That's one of the strengths
of our historic district is its

1799
02:10:32,240 --> 02:10:39,640
diversity and
I for one am always a fan of any attempt

1800
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:45,560
to make something special and to make it
different and to put in a little bit

1801
02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:45,560
extra effort towards that end.

1802
02:10:47,120 --> 02:10:51,440
» And there are there are a number of
these homes throughout

1803
02:10:50,040 --> 02:10:55,400
» I'm sorry. We're just doing the board
deliberation.

1804
02:10:53,880 --> 02:10:59,520
You've already made your case, sir, and
you've done it you in my mind you've

1805
02:10:56,760 --> 02:11:03,880
done it well, but I think we need to um
keep this to the board.

1806
02:11:01,120 --> 02:11:08,240
Does anyone have any other comments? Um
and if not, does any Would anyone like

1807
02:11:05,400 --> 02:11:08,240
to make a motion?

1808
02:11:13,600 --> 02:11:20,000
» I'm still concerned about the siding.
>> What are your concerns? I'd love to hear

1809
02:11:18,840 --> 02:11:24,280
them.
>> As far as I know, we have one log house

1810
02:11:22,160 --> 02:11:27,480
in town and it's over on Presbyterian
over here and it's uh

1811
02:11:25,600 --> 02:11:32,240
it's an old style, you know, like you
would see anywhere in the uh out in the

1812
02:11:29,440 --> 02:11:36,440
country built 150 years ago.
Um

1813
02:11:33,320 --> 02:11:41,680
I think that we need to be
along the lines of uh what the other

1814
02:11:39,320 --> 02:11:46,680
buildings are looking at.
Something similar to that.

1815
02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:51,440
Not really have something stand out.
Right.

1816
02:11:49,200 --> 02:11:56,520
» I'm sorry. I get we this is our we got
to talk right now. We will we will

1817
02:11:53,440 --> 02:12:00,720
directly ask you a question um
if necessary.

1818
02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:04,200
So, would I you know, having just just
asked the gentleman to refrain, I was

1819
02:12:03,000 --> 02:12:06,680
going to make the exact same point that
he just did that I think that this is

1820
02:12:05,600 --> 02:12:10,800
now
flat tongue and groove siding as opposed

1821
02:12:08,600 --> 02:12:14,760
to anything resembling a log.
I came in very worried about it

1822
02:12:12,560 --> 02:12:18,800
potentially having a rounder profile and
reading like a log cabin.

1823
02:12:17,160 --> 02:12:23,880
But you know, you know materials better
than than I think any of us up here,

1824
02:12:20,760 --> 02:12:26,560
Bill. So, if you have concerns, is it
is it the

1825
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:29,120
fact that it would just be, you know,
what what about the siding concerns you

1826
02:12:28,400 --> 02:12:33,040
knowing that it's a flat
>> My main concern would be corners. You

1827
02:12:31,360 --> 02:12:37,200
know, when you have a log siding, you
usually have an overlap kind of a, you

1828
02:12:35,000 --> 02:12:40,960
know, alternate overlap. If you're going
to have straight corners on it, I can go

1829
02:12:39,360 --> 02:12:47,080
with that. I don't have a problem. I
just don't want to see a log cabin, a

1830
02:12:43,200 --> 02:12:49,640
fake log cabin look in that house.
But I I don't, you know, after looking

1831
02:12:48,480 --> 02:12:52,960
at your siding a little bit more, I
don't think that that would give that

1832
02:12:51,800 --> 02:12:57,520
impression.
>> So, I'll ask the applicant to clarify.

1833
02:12:55,960 --> 02:13:01,040
The corners, you said you could do it in
one way where they would sort of

1834
02:12:59,800 --> 02:13:04,440
Yeah, where they
um

1835
02:13:01,880 --> 02:13:08,120
Would you mind responding to
uh board member Jewels' concern about

1836
02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:11,160
the corners? And I know you represented
that there were two different ways that

1837
02:13:09,240 --> 02:13:15,040
you could potentially even do them.
>> Yeah, when we manufacture the corners,

1838
02:13:13,240 --> 02:13:18,120
we can do it uh
We've done 10 of these in Jefferson

1839
02:13:16,480 --> 02:13:25,720
County recently.
Uh none in downtown, obviously. So, we

1840
02:13:21,360 --> 02:13:29,320
can uh not put the dovetail block as you
will on the corner to appease that and

1841
02:13:27,720 --> 02:13:35,400
just actually have the sidings come
together with a traditional, like what

1842
02:13:32,240 --> 02:13:42,200
you saw in the previous picture, a uh
1 by 6 uh trim corner over those if

1843
02:13:38,840 --> 02:13:45,400
that's what this that would be up to.
We can go either way.

1844
02:13:43,800 --> 02:13:49,720
» Can you give me an address of one of the
ones you've done in Jefferson County?

1845
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:53,120
» I have a whole list.
>> Just one. I'm just trying to try and

1846
02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:57,760
pull up a picture on my phone.
>> Pull up a picture of Larry and Rita

1847
02:13:55,040 --> 02:14:02,760
Andrus on Little Cedar. Uh don't have
the address memorized.

1848
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:06,800
» Mhm. Oh, okay. Okay. Well,
um okay.

1849
02:14:05,080 --> 02:14:09,800
» Will with that um
alteration of the plan for the corners

1850
02:14:08,360 --> 02:14:13,680
help cure some of your concerns?
>> That would. Yeah, that would really help

1851
02:14:11,960 --> 02:14:18,640
a lot.
>> Would you uh care to maybe offer a

1852
02:14:15,800 --> 02:14:21,760
motion with that concern articulated?
>> Sure enough.

1853
02:14:19,800 --> 02:14:27,200
I would like to move that the Madison
Historic District Board of Review

1854
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:31,960
approve your plan for the house as it
stands with

1855
02:14:29,240 --> 02:14:35,440
more traditional corners not unlock
overlap corner.

1856
02:14:33,960 --> 02:14:37,920
» As described by the applicant.
>> As described by the applicant, excuse

1857
02:14:36,640 --> 02:14:41,320
me.
>> Do we have a second for that motion?

1858
02:14:43,360 --> 02:14:49,400
» I'll second that.
>> Think we should do another roll call

1859
02:14:47,920 --> 02:14:50,880
vote here. Brenna?
>> Chris Cody?

1860
02:14:50,160 --> 02:14:52,400
» Approve.
>> Happy Smith?

1861
02:14:51,560 --> 02:14:53,920
» Approve.
>> Phil Jewel?

1862
02:14:53,120 --> 02:14:55,640
» Approve.
>> Jared Anderson?

1863
02:14:55,040 --> 02:14:57,880
» Approve.
>> Jade Skillman?

1864
02:14:56,280 --> 02:14:59,960
» Approve.
>> Thank you, gentlemen, for talking that

1865
02:14:59,000 --> 02:15:03,400
through with us and
>> Thank you for your time.

1866
02:15:04,680 --> 02:15:12,560
» Okay, so now we move on to the new old
business portion of the meeting. Uh,

1867
02:15:10,920 --> 02:15:15,480
do we have any old business that we
should discuss?

1868
02:15:13,520 --> 02:15:18,720
» not.
>> Is there any new business that we should

1869
02:15:17,120 --> 02:15:23,880
discuss?
>> Not that I'm aware of unless

1870
02:15:22,080 --> 02:15:27,400
I don't I don't think so.
>> I'll also make an offer to the public.

1871
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:31,080
Is there anything that the public would
like to bring to the board's attention?

1872
02:15:33,160 --> 02:15:37,600
Thank you very much.
>> Okay.

1873
02:15:35,480 --> 02:15:42,280
Then we will move real quick into staff
report. So, this month

1874
02:15:40,880 --> 02:15:47,080
we've had a couple.
Um

1875
02:15:44,120 --> 02:15:52,080
couple signs, several fences, um one
walkway,

1876
02:15:49,200 --> 02:15:56,120
and some doors and shutters.
And then

1877
02:15:53,560 --> 02:15:59,320
for our annual review, all of the
projects have been completed.

1878
02:16:03,080 --> 02:16:09,080
» Well, thank you very much, Brenna.
Is there any other business that anyone

1879
02:16:07,560 --> 02:16:13,120
on the board would like to address? If
not, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

1880
02:16:15,320 --> 02:16:18,520
» I move that we adjourn.
>> Second.

1881
02:16:17,600 --> 02:16:20,160
» All those in favor?
>> Aye.

1882
02:16:18,840 --> 02:16:24,680
» Aye.
>> Any opposed?

1883
02:16:22,240 --> 02:16:24,680
Hearing none.

1884
02:16:27,040 --> 02:16:30,480
» Any opposed will leave you here.

1885
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:34,000
» Well, that