[4:42] Well, you know,
[4:46] wouldn't hurt to get a little bit.
[4:51] » Good job.
[4:54] >> Wouldn't hurt to be able to make a
[4:56] little bit of money on the side. We had
[4:57] a couple of [music]
[4:59] >> Can you turn your mic on?
[5:01] >> There you go. Good job.
[5:03] >> Oh, all righty.
[5:04] >> Thanks.
[5:05] >> Um,
[5:06] now we know that uh
[5:10] we would not initially and probably
[5:13] possibly ever be able to provide water
[5:15] to that campground site. There's [music]
[5:18] a limit on new water hookups in the
[5:20] area. So, our thinking was really just
[5:22] to dry camping, provide electricity at
[5:24] the most to people that were just, you
[5:26] know, looking for a place to to stay for
[5:29] a little bit. Um, not trying to run some
[5:32] big old RV park uh on our property. Um,
[5:36] that's uh basically the idea that we
[5:40] had. Uh we know that there's a lot of
[5:42] stuff that would have to happen if this
[5:44] got approved before we could really open
[5:46] that up to any sort of business, but at
[5:49] the very least, you know, once we got it
[5:50] approved, then we'd be able to have
[5:52] family come out and stay with us and not
[5:53] have to worry about uh running a foul of
[5:56] the government.
[6:00] » I see what your desire is. You say in
[6:03] your application you want to use you
[6:06] have a 33 acre property and you want
[6:09] [music] to use.3 acres
[6:12] for two to four RVs.
[6:15] But as you may know Madison recently
[6:18] adopted a new unified development
[6:20] ordinance that replaced the old one
[6:24] and
[6:26] it was given a whole lot of exposure.
[6:29] There were many meetings, some of them
[6:32] with people advising how to ride it,
[6:34] some of them open to the public. [music]
[6:37] There were meetings with all the various
[6:39] zoning districts laid out.
[6:43] So, there were all kinds of
[6:45] opportunities
[6:46] just very recently
[6:49] to comment about
[6:51] uses in all the various zoning
[6:53] districts. Some of the zoning districts
[6:55] were even changed.
[6:58] And in all the conversation and all the
[7:03] stuff that went on before city council
[7:06] adopted the law, which it is, it's law.
[7:11] The whole subject of putting campgrounds
[7:13] in residential agriculture was never
[7:15] approved and hence you want a variance
[7:18] of use.
[7:20] And under the name of campground, there
[7:24] were a lot of ordinances
[7:28] or a lot of things that have to be
[7:30] satisfied.
[7:31] Here's section 3.4 on page [music] 56.
[7:36] Uh campground standards, minimum lot
[7:40] area 5 acres, site access from a public
[7:43] road at least 24 foot wide, paved first
[7:46] 200 ft.
[7:48] uh fire and EMS shall approve site
[7:51] layout.
[7:53] There are other things.
[7:56] Let's see if I can find them here.
[8:03] Ah, here we go.
[8:06] You have to have in residential
[8:07] agriculture a public water supply, but
[8:10] you don't have to have public sewers.
[8:13] Uh,
[8:17] and the big one you have to install
[8:19] sanitation
[8:22] which I presume in the country out there
[8:25] would mean an adequate size septic tank
[8:28] and a drain field and all that kind of
[8:30] stuff.
[8:32] But those are things that pertain to
[8:34] campgrounds.
[8:37] And certainly if it's going to be used
[8:40] commercially,
[8:42] and by commercial I mean you rent it out
[8:44] to people for a weekend or a week or
[8:46] whatever, then you have to abide by
[8:49] those rules. And now this thing becomes
[8:51] [music] very costly
[8:53] >> because you're going to have to
[8:56] by your own admission and your
[8:58] application you don't have sanitation
[9:00] for this specifically. I presume you
[9:03] have a septic tank for your house.
[9:06] >> Uh I know we're on Riker's Ridge sewer.
[9:08] >> Oh, so you do have a sewer system. Okay.
[9:11] >> Right. And with the uh you know with our
[9:13] family staying like they would use
[9:15] [music] our bathrooms you know when they
[9:17] come they would just be staying in the
[9:18] RV sleeping in the RV using our
[9:21] bathrooms and showers. So it's you know
[9:24] doing the family thing that's not really
[9:28] the big deal. Obviously, if we printed
[9:30] anybody else, then we don't want them
[9:32] using our bathrooms, which [music] is
[9:34] why that would be a much farther in the
[9:36] future because there, like you said,
[9:38] there would be a lot that we had to take
[9:40] care of on our end before it came to
[9:41] being of any commercial value to to
[9:45] doing that or ability to do.
[9:46] >> Well, that was a big concern because I
[9:48] figured they were going to come and they
[9:50] were going to use your potty and your
[9:51] shower.
[9:54] But since you're on Riker's Ridge sewer,
[9:56] then that obiates a lot of problems.
[10:01] Um,
[10:02] but the big problem for me is despite
[10:05] all the meetings and everything that was
[10:07] just very recently held to adopt this
[10:09] new [music] UDO, which follows an awful
[10:12] lot of state guidelines,
[10:16] then
[10:18] it seems to me like
[10:22] your thinking is you're awfully close to
[10:24] the [music] county which would have
[10:25] allowed this under their UDO, But per
[10:30] Indiana law,
[10:33] you're in a two-mile fringe area around
[10:35] the city,
[10:37] which
[10:38] well, it makes some problems for people
[10:41] and it also protects the city.
[10:45] So, there are my issues that it just
[10:50] wasn't allowed.
[10:54] And certainly using a public campground
[10:58] would require a considerable investment.
[11:03] Uh board members, do any of you have any
[11:05] other questions?
[11:08] Well, one thing that that I don't know
[11:10] if everybody knows, but if we give you a
[11:12] variance to do this, that attaches to
[11:15] the property. So, you can sell the
[11:18] property, somebody else could put in 80 cers for a weekend if they had all
[11:23] the water and sewer. So, I
[11:28] don't think that's the right thing to
[11:29] do.
[11:30] >> Now, it was just for your family, your
[11:32] backyard, they pull them in there. I
[11:33] don't think anybody's going to say a
[11:34] word,
[11:36] >> but with the variance, you open up
[11:39] another can of worms.
[11:40] >> Does the not have a limit on it?
[11:43] >> We you can put reasonable conditions on
[11:45] that and then the way we function within
[11:47] the city, those get recorded with the
[11:49] deed.
[11:50] >> Um we go and record those sheets here,
[11:52] you know, after the meeting at [music]
[11:54] some point and um that would get
[11:55] recorded. So definitely looked there
[11:58] were definitely some restrictions I
[11:59] think that need to be put on if if you
[12:01] consider it such as number of campsites
[12:04] and um even maybe a setback or something
[12:06] like that but yeah
[12:08] >> but without the water and sewer and all
[12:10] that I'm not far this
[12:18] » um
[12:19] yes sir have you spoken to record
[12:24] they let you tap
[12:26] or tied into your existing.
[12:30] >> Uh so we haven't talked to anybody about
[12:33] doing the you know the work um beyond
[12:36] that one. It seemed like there wasn't a
[12:39] whole lot of point until we found out if
[12:41] we even got the variance. [music] Um and
[12:44] you know the primary purpose of the
[12:45] variance was for family to be able to
[12:48] stay. So even if we got the variance and
[12:50] they all told us no, you can't put in
[12:52] water, you can't put in sewer, we were
[12:54] like, well, you know, at least we can
[12:55] still have our family stay without
[12:57] anybody being able to call the city on
[12:59] us for the family. So, um, we haven't
[13:02] really pursued that. Uh, there is
[13:04] another campground just down the road
[13:06] and when I was going around talking to
[13:08] people, he told me all the stuff that
[13:10] he's gone through. I was like, man, I
[13:12] don't know if it's worth going all that
[13:14] for like maybe 50 extra bucks a weekend.
[13:17] [laughter] So, We got some nice
[13:19] campgrounds here for your family to come
[13:21] in and use. You know, you go out Quincy
[13:23] Falls, nice campground up here on the
[13:25] river, but
[13:28] I just assume that they would come visit
[13:30] you and use those. I mean, that's just my opinion, only one person. And I
[13:35] read the comments with the neighbors and
[13:37] of course they they raised a lot of
[13:39] concerns about the heavy traffic on K
[13:42] Road and K Road as you know, is a narrow
[13:45] road.
[13:46] >> Yes. And uh I can't I can't imagine
[13:49] pulling the camper down that road and
[13:51] feeling real comfortable about it
[13:52] because it's
[13:54] reminds me of what see back in one of
[13:56] those what was it D Martin the camper
[14:00] got in all kind I can see K road doing
[14:02] that being the best.
[14:05] Well, and I guess when we were
[14:06] envisioning it, like my parents' bumper
[14:08] [music] pole is a small one, not one of
[14:12] the big long um she has a I guess it's
[14:16] both of our brothers-in-law, her
[14:18] sister's husband. [music]
[14:19] Uh they have, you know, a little popup
[14:21] camper, right? That's like kind of on
[14:24] our mind. We were never envisioning 40
[14:27] foot
[14:28] >> class A RVs or anything like that trying
[14:30] to work their way back onto K Road
[14:32] because that's a little bit crazy.
[14:33] >> Yeah. We didn't we didn't know that we
[14:36] the RV
[14:37] >> right
[14:37] >> that you know they can go up the highle
[14:39] >> but we're definitely willing to put like
[14:41] restrictions on size for the
[14:45] piece.
[14:47] >> Any other questions or comments board
[14:49] members?
[14:50] >> No.
[14:54] Well, this is a fivep person board and
[14:57] obviously only three of us are here
[14:59] tonight
[15:01] and
[15:03] obviously also to pass anything you have
[15:05] to have three four three votes four.
[15:10] And so if you read the board,
[15:14] we could give you the opportunity if you
[15:16] want to think it over and come up with
[15:17] some
[15:21] voluntary restrictions
[15:24] and you'd like to come back later,
[15:28] then we'd be very glad to table it for
[15:29] you so you don't have to reapply or do
[15:31] anything.
[15:35] » Um, we'd be happy to do that.
[15:38] I think that would probably be a good
[15:39] idea. And if the full board were here,
[15:43] >> um I don't know if you can answer this.
[15:45] Are there any particular restrictions
[15:47] [music]
[15:47] that you would like us to consider?
[15:50] >> Well, the neighbors are going to be
[15:51] terribly worried
[15:54] as we've been through this before on K
[15:56] Road, not with a campground, but with
[15:58] another use.
[16:00] The neighbors are going to be concerned
[16:03] about
[16:04] first of all traffic.
[16:07] RVs [music] trying to negotiate
[16:10] that miserable K Road.
[16:13] They're going to be worried about
[16:15] disturbances. They're going to be
[16:16] worried about your property being used
[16:18] as a
[16:21] uh what do you call them? 18 off
[16:24] allterrain vehicle park with guys
[16:26] roaring around at 3:00 in the morning,
[16:28] >> right? They're going to be concerned
[16:30] about guys shooting off guns and getting
[16:32] drunk and
[16:34] generally raising houble toothpicks
[16:36] [music]
[16:36] which has happened out there.
[16:41] So I think those are going to be major
[16:43] concerns.
[16:45] So if you crafted something that even
[16:47] you indicated to your neighbors that you
[16:49] only wanted family members, you only
[16:51] wanted them x number of weekends or
[16:55] whatever a year,
[16:57] uh you realize you'd have to comply with
[17:00] the campground regulations which is
[17:02] involves you know installing sewer
[17:06] risers
[17:08] was having a you know RVs have holding
[17:10] tanks and they got to be dumped.
[17:15] and Scott, I'll give them if you'd like
[17:17] a copy. We did receive two comments. One
[17:19] came in yesterday. I think one came in,
[17:21] late [music] Friday. So, I'll give you
[17:23] those just so you have some help.
[17:26] Alleviate some concerns then,
[17:30] >> as I am pretty sure, most of the
[17:32] neighbors are going to be opposed. And
[17:34] there is also the issue that Mr. here
[17:37] brought up that it goes on under the new
[17:39] rules of the state of Indiana, these
[17:42] things go on your property deed.
[17:46] And so while you may be very responsible
[17:48] and decent people, [music] you sell the
[17:50] property and there's no guarantee,
[17:53] >> right?
[17:54] >> You want to correct me?
[17:55] >> No, I mean generally use variances,
[17:57] [music] development standards variances,
[17:58] those do run with the land just like
[18:00] we've talked about special exceptions.
[18:02] There are instances a lot of times you
[18:04] need to let those run with [music] the
[18:05] land if there's been an investment like
[18:08] you know conversion to a a new use or
[18:10] something like that because um
[18:12] especially like accessory dwelling
[18:13] [music] units you can put some
[18:16] restrictions on that you've done that on
[18:18] a few others but I wouldn't make that's
[18:20] not the norm that's not the normal route
[18:23] when it's something operationally based
[18:25] um I think it's something you can
[18:26] consider that's
[18:29] a little bit of a different use um I
[18:31] know they are the last parcel in our
[18:33] [music] jurisdiction. So the other side
[18:35] of them other side of this property is
[18:37] in the county's jurisdiction. So they're
[18:39] right on our edge of [music] our
[18:40] jurisdiction. Um
[18:42] >> well I see your situation.
[18:45] You're literally [music] 2 feet away
[18:47] from where you could do this in the
[18:48] white care.
[18:50] >> I apologize for
[18:53] >> not following what was happening in
[18:54] Madison. But before this, we thought we
[18:56] were in the county, so we just weren't
[18:59] really paying attention to what was
[19:00] going on in Mass.
[19:01] >> Well, you got to live and learn.
[19:03] >> Yeah. So,
[19:04] >> you got to learn that you live under
[19:06] government laws. It's it's called due
[19:08] diligence.
[19:10] And if you were to start [music] a
[19:11] business,
[19:13] like you want to build a business, then
[19:15] you're probably going to take [music]
[19:16] core samples to see if your ground's
[19:18] contaminated and various things like
[19:20] that.
[19:22] So, you gota Until
[19:25] I got on this board, I was like you. I
[19:27] didn't realize.
[19:29] But now I understand that
[19:34] >> there are an awful lot of things you've
[19:35] got to look into.
[19:37] >> You're not the first person to get
[19:38] tripped up,
[19:40] >> right? No.
[19:41] >> Um,
[19:45] » can you chime in? Is there there's still
[19:47] there's no reason families
[19:50] can't spend. So RVs are um a little bit
[19:53] of a tricky one. So RVs, they are not a
[19:55] HUD approved dwelling unit. So um they
[19:58] can't be used for permanent residency um
[20:02] because they're a temporary portable
[20:03] structure. They're not a permanent
[20:05] residence. So people cannot live in
[20:06] those outside of campgrounds. Within our
[20:09] jurisdiction, the county's jurisdiction
[20:10] is the same. [music] Um we don't have
[20:13] provisions that allow for temporary
[20:15] occupancy of those. Um again, outside of
[20:18] a campground.
[20:20] So that's kind of where you run into a
[20:21] little bit of this this issue.
[20:24] >> Well, if you'd like to think it over,
[20:26] we'd be glad to table it.
[20:27] >> Okay.
[20:28] >> You can ponder it.
[20:30] So we'll do that.
[20:31] >> Yes.
[20:32] >> You want to go ahead and do public
[20:34] comment and have the public hearing now
[20:35] or you tableabling everything till the
[20:37] next meeting?
[20:37] >> We'll table it till the next meeting. I
[20:40] think we're trying to look out. We're
[20:42] considering you, but we also we've been
[20:44] through this on K Road.
[20:47] As I talked to my neighbors, I learned
[20:49] that they've been through this on K
[20:51] Road.
[20:53] >> Yeah,
[20:54] >> we're learning.
[20:55] >> Scott, do you want to make sure there's
[20:56] nobody who's in attend [music]
[20:57] attendance today that can't attend the
[20:59] next meeting just in case there's a
[21:01] comment? Just a thought. So for you.
[21:05] >> Well, that's just a few folks that have
[21:07] a seat.
[21:08] >> All right.
[21:08] >> As [music]
[21:10] our secretary, Miss Williams, pointed
[21:12] out, if any of you in our next regular
[21:14] meeting August 14th, mber 14th [music]
[21:17] >> August 14th September se
[21:20] >> September excuse me September 14th if
[21:22] you can't be here on that day have an
[21:24] obligation
[21:26] then we'd be glad to take like a two or
[21:28] three minute comment from you so you can
[21:31] be heard otherwise we'll postpone
[21:33] comments till that [music] next regular
[21:35] meeting
[21:37] >> out of town
[21:38] >> well come on up
[21:41] years
[21:43] >> can you state your name and address
[21:44] please thanks [music]
[21:46] Terry can live at 2400 Caster Lane. I've
[21:49] farmed up here in 30 [music] some years
[21:51] and you know we pull we pull semis in
[21:53] there or 30 34 foot trailers you know
[21:56] it's
[21:58] like you said a public campground now
[21:59] family I would have no problem with but
[22:01] I don't think they need to be in now
[22:03] they're all the time like the public
[22:05] campground and didn't you say on the law
[22:07] they stated the road had to be 24 foot.
[22:11] Well, that's the uh
[22:13] >> internal driveway.
[22:14] >> The entrance off of the public road has
[22:16] to be 25 wide and
[22:20] >> uh paved for the first 200 ft.
[22:22] >> Like I said, you know, I know I cannot
[22:24] get up through there and stay on my side
[22:25] of the road on them turns on the hills,
[22:27] especially that's what you know would
[22:29] concern me.
[22:30] >> Thank you.
[22:31] >> You're welcome.
[22:33] If anybody else cannot be here on
[22:36] September [music] 14th and you'd like to
[22:38] say a brief comment for the record,
[22:39] you're sure welcome.
[22:43] My name is Roger Ward. I'm president of
[22:46] Rers Water Company, which this falls
[22:49] under our jurisdiction. I have a
[22:51] document I want to submit [music] to you
[22:54] all that may or may not help you in
[22:58] future endeavors. I'll read it out loud.
[23:00] Dearba members, this letter is to inform
[23:02] you that Kro [music] Jefferson County
[23:04] Indiana has a moratorum in place and at
[23:07] this time no water taps for water are
[23:09] available. This moratorum has been in
[23:11] place for several [music] years signed
[23:13] by the board of directors. I just want
[23:14] this on record that will help you that
[23:18] next time a K road thing comes up there
[23:20] is no water available.
[23:23] >> Thank you.
[23:24] >> I'll take that and skin it in
[23:26] >> and board. I move we accept this letter
[23:29] into the public record.
[23:31] Second.
[23:32] >> All in favor say I. I.
[23:34] >> I. Oppos. No. It's accepted.
[23:36] >> And one clarification too. Um I believe
[23:38] our Oh, this is a use variance. So there
[23:40] would be no time necessarily limit on
[23:42] that, but special exceptions would be a
[23:44] two years. You could establish the use
[23:46] within two years. So um don't know when
[23:48] that might be lifted, but um doesn't
[23:50] sound like maybe within the couple year
[23:52] frame maybe. But okay.
[23:56] Uh
[23:58] well, we have
[24:01] [music]
[24:03] taken care of any possible public
[24:05] comments and
[24:08] we do not move to table it. So I move
[24:12] [music] we table this application till
[24:13] our next regular meeting.
[24:18] » Have a second.
[24:19] >> Second.
[24:20] >> All in favor say I.
[24:22] >> I.
[24:24] oppose. No.
[24:27] Uh folks,
[24:32] so if any of you folk I suspect some of
[24:35] you are here on account of this, we will
[24:38] take the whole issue up unless the
[24:40] applicants withdraw it obviously, but we
[24:43] will take the issue up and have comment
[24:46] as needed at our September 14 regular
[24:51] meeting.
[24:52] So, if any of you uh like to leave now,
[24:55] if you're not interested in staying on
[24:57] watching our solemn proceedings, you're
[24:59] sure welcome. [music]
[25:06] Okay. [music]
[25:14] Okay. Next item on the agenda.
[25:24] is BZVD-26-8
[25:30] Luke Taylor Tammy Bednar requesting
[25:33] variance from developmental standards
[25:36] for an accessory [music] structure
[25:38] setback 828 West 2nd Street. So somebody
[25:42] speaking on their behalf. Yes sir.
[25:46] give your name and address and explain
[25:48] the situation.
[25:50] >> Name is Luke Taylor. Uh I live in Scott
[25:53] County, but address in question is 828
[25:54] West Second Street.
[26:00] And you are requesting
[26:03] a variance from developmental standards,
[26:06] I understand,
[26:08] to install a carport type of a roof
[26:11] thing over an existing driveway.
[26:14] >> Yes, sir.
[26:16] And the driveway has been there I
[26:17] presume since Noah's flood
[26:21] >> sometime. Yes. [music] At
[26:22] >> least the 37
[26:28] and you're just simply going to you have
[26:31] to have a variance because it's a
[26:32] structure and the driveway was situated
[26:34] such that you have to do this one of
[26:36] these things we run into downtown all
[26:39] the time.
[26:42] Board members, do you have any questions
[26:44] or comments?
[26:48] » A reasonable sense to me. I mean, just a
[26:50] carport [music] iss pretty simple.
[26:52] Garage or blocked view of anything.
[26:55] >> It's just an open typical carport with
[26:59] nothing but some pillars and a roof.
[27:01] >> Yes, sir.
[27:04] >> To specify it is a the required setback
[27:07] is 3 ft. He's requesting approximately a
[27:09] foot um set back from that property
[27:12] line. And there is an existing [music]
[27:14] privacy fence between that property line
[27:17] that does not want to stay on here. Um
[27:19] that property line [music] and uh the
[27:21] carport.
[27:24] So you have
[27:26] lot line here,
[27:28] privacy fence here, driveway here,
[27:33] and you want to put [music]
[27:36] the uh carport roof right smack over the
[27:41] driveway.
[27:43] So you're already
[27:46] constrained by a privacy fence that's
[27:48] probably been there forever.
[27:50] >> Yes, sir. The privacy fence is the
[27:52] neighbors to the north of the It's not
[27:55] uh Miss Bendar's property, but it's the
[27:57] neighbors of the north property.
[28:01] Okay. Any questions or comments, board
[28:04] members?
[28:07] >> I don't see
[28:09] build.
[28:11] >> Correct. Correct.
[28:12] >> All right.
[28:14] >> I got approved for the board of
[28:16] appropriate or certificate of
[28:17] appropriate
[28:18] historic board and get it approved. So
[28:20] that will fit the historic character.
[28:22] >> No issue with a water shed or anything
[28:24] off the roof to your neighbor.
[28:25] >> I'm running a gutter on the back end and
[28:28] it's going to come down the driveway
[28:29] towards the road. So it's going to be
[28:30] the same water flow as right now.
[28:32] >> Okay. Very good. Thank you.
[28:34] >> Which is the only consideration because
[28:36] you can't dump your water on the
[28:37] neighbor's lot.
[28:38] >> Correct.
[28:41] » Would anybody in the audience like to
[28:43] speak for or against this application?
[28:47] Well, seeing none, you can have a seat,
[28:50] sir.
[28:50] >> Thank you.
[28:52] >> We will go through our findings of fact
[28:57] uh
[28:59] is variance developmental standards.
[29:01] Three criteria. Number one, it's not
[29:03] injurious to public health safety
[29:05] morals.
[29:07] Uh Mr. Eagland,
[29:09] >> no, it's not. It's going to be a nice
[29:11] addition.
[29:14] >> Mr. Ramik, I have no issues.
[29:17] Um, I see no
[29:21] possible way that's going to adversely
[29:23] affect anything. I think that one's met.
[29:26] Uh, number two, use and value of the
[29:29] area adjacent to the property is not
[29:31] affected in a substantially adverse
[29:33] manner. Mr. Eagland,
[29:35] >> no, I think it approved because his
[29:37] neighbor also has a [music] carport,
[29:39] some additions down there. So, it's kind
[29:41] of a improving neighborhood down there.
[29:43] I think this is just help.
[29:45] >> Mr. ceramic. Sounds good. And uh I see
[29:50] no, we've certainly had no testimony
[29:53] from a recognized authority that
[29:55] anything's going to be adversely hurt.
[29:57] So I think that one's met.
[30:00] And number three,
[30:04] strict application of this ordinance
[30:06] will result in a practical difficulty.
[30:08] What is it, Mr. Eagland? I don't see any
[30:12] real hard nothing tough about this one.
[30:16] Pretty simple. Mr. Amik,
[30:20] I agree. It's straightforward.
[30:23] Uh
[30:26] the practical difficulty and the reason
[30:28] he has to have the variance of
[30:30] development standards is that it is
[30:32] considered a structure and it's within
[30:34] the three-foot limit.
[30:37] So, I think that one's met.
[30:40] Well, having gone through our
[30:41] application and our findings of fact,
[30:46] I take a motion.
[30:49] I'll make a motion we approve BZVD-26-8.
[30:51] [music]
[30:55] » And could we have a roll call?
[31:00] >> Yes.
[31:04] >> And we wish you well, sir.
[31:23] The next item on the agenda agenda
[31:25] BZVD-26-9 [music]
[31:28] 590 East Clifty Drive. It was a request
[31:31] for variance from developmental
[31:33] standards for a primary structure
[31:35] setback. That one has requested to be
[31:37] tabled [music] till our next regular
[31:40] meeting
[31:42] >> that we need to table it because we
[31:44] won't have a quorum. Um
[31:47] >> yeah,
[31:50] » that's a good reason.
[31:52] I move we table this application till
[31:55] our next regular meeting.
[31:57] >> I'll second the motion.
[31:59] >> And can we have a roll call?
[32:02] >> Thanks. Scott Baldwin,
[32:03] >> yes.
[32:03] >> Carl England,
[32:04] >> yes. and Brian Amy, you're going to
[32:06] [music] abstain. Okay, that's what I
[32:08] thought you said. Two to one abstain.
[32:11] And just to clarify, too, that's
[32:12] September 14th, [music] 6 PM at city
[32:14] hall.
[32:16] >> Uh, next item on the agenda, BZCU-26-8,
[32:23] Kevin Mason, uh, from Electriccom.inc.
[32:28] Special exception approval to operate a
[32:30] short-term rental at 508 Jefferson
[32:32] Street.
[32:34] We have somebody come up and address
[32:36] this.
[32:40] » My name is Lori Kendall representing
[32:43] Electriccom, Inc. and the property is at
[32:46] 508 Jefferson Street.
[32:49] >> And
[32:51] just exactly what are you planning on
[32:53] doing there?
[32:55] >> We [music]
[32:56] um would like to operate a short-term
[32:58] vacation rental like a Airbnb. Um, our
[33:02] company currently has four, three in
[33:05] French and one here in Madison, which is
[33:08] [music] actually connected to this
[33:11] building.
[33:12] So, we're just wanting to um allow
[33:15] variance for us [music] to have a
[33:18] short-term vacation rental.
[33:20] >> Usually weekends, maybe three-day
[33:22] weekends. We rarely have somebody that
[33:23] stays a week, and we only allow two
[33:26] weeks at a time.
[33:30] Uh board members, do you have any
[33:32] questions or comments?
[33:35] Have there been any complaints with
[33:36] their
[33:37] >> Not to my knowledge. No, that was the
[33:39] one I think you [music] you approved
[33:40] earlier this year. Um maybe January,
[33:43] February, March, somewhere in that
[33:44] range.
[33:45] >> No problems.
[33:46] >> No, sir.
[33:48] >> Probably about the same criteria as far
[33:49] as rules and regulations as you
[33:51] >> absolutely. We do have pretty strict
[33:53] [music] rules. um no more than the
[33:56] maximum number allowed for guests. This
[33:59] is a threebedroom three-bedroom home, so
[34:02] it would be a six guest [music]
[34:04] maximum. Okay.
[34:05] >> Um we require proof of ID. They have to
[34:09] be an established
[34:11] uh renter. They've had to have rented
[34:13] from Airbnb or VRBO before with good
[34:16] ratings. Um they must be 21. They must
[34:19] abide by thy quiet hours. So we have
[34:22] pretty strict
[34:23] >> Is there any off off streetet parking
[34:25] back in the alley behind?
[34:27] >> There is there's garage parking there
[34:29] and then there's [music] uh front street
[34:31] parking.
[34:31] >> Okay.
[34:32] >> Yeah.
[34:34] >> Four.
[34:34] [music] Yeah.
[34:35] >> Okay. Four places. Good.
[34:37] >> Okay.
[34:40] Let's see. And you have provided rules
[34:45] which frankly
[34:47] >> we [music] no we do not we cannot
[34:49] require them to submit those but um I
[34:52] think if
[34:52] >> I think we did with the pre with the one
[34:55] next door but I didn't with this one the
[34:58] same you can apply those same rules.
[35:00] >> They are the same. [music] Yes.
[35:04] » Board members. Any other questions or
[35:06] comments?
[35:11] Would anyone in the audience like to
[35:13] speak for against this?
[35:16] >> Apparently not.
[35:17] >> I lost our audience. [laughter]
[35:21] >> They're country people.
[35:25] Well, you can have a a seat, ma'am.
[35:27] >> Thank you.
[35:31] » This is a special exception. [music]
[35:36] And we have several findings in fact we
[35:39] have to go through six of them.
[35:44] Uh so the first one
[35:48] I'll just briefly go [music] through
[35:49] them and you can
[35:52] for the purposes of the record if
[35:54] somebody's watching
[35:56] I will read the category and I'll just
[35:59] ask if any of you have any objections.
[36:02] Uh the first fact
[36:04] uh is will this detrimental or endanger
[36:08] public health, safety, morals or general
[36:10] welfare? Anybody have any issues there?
[36:13] >> No. No.
[36:15] >> Uh fact two,
[36:17] a special exception is not injurious to
[36:19] [music] use and enjoyment of other
[36:21] property in the immediate vicinity.
[36:26] No problems. Number three, [music]
[36:30] uh this special exception will not
[36:32] impede or substantially older the normal
[36:34] and orderly development and improvement
[36:36] of surrounding property for uses in this
[36:39] district. Any problems?
[36:41] >> No issues.
[36:43] >> Number four, there are adequate
[36:45] utilities, access road, drainage, etc.
[36:49] Any issues?
[36:50] >> No.
[36:52] Number five,
[36:54] uh there they have taken adequate
[36:57] measures to provide ingress and egress
[37:00] to minimize traffic congestion.
[37:03] >> Yes.
[37:03] >> Any any issues?
[37:05] >> No.
[37:07] >> And number six,
[37:10] it's located in a district which where
[37:12] such use is permitted
[37:14] and they will meet any other
[37:16] requirements in this UDO.
[37:19] Any issues?
[37:25] that we will take a motion.
[37:31] I move we approve the special exception.
[37:35] Second motion
[37:38] and we have a roll call.
[37:40] >> Of course. Uh Scott Baldwin.
[37:42] >> Yes.
[37:43] >> Carl England.
[37:44] >> Yes.
[37:44] >> Brian Brian Amik. [music]
[37:46] >> Yes.
[37:48] Well, we wish you well, ladies.
[38:01] And last item on our agenda,
[38:05] BZVU-26-5,
[38:07] [music]
[38:08] Linda Lockach,
[38:12] requesting a variance of use to operate
[38:14] a short-term rental.
[38:16] I understand it's it says here 945 West
[38:20] second but that's also 947 as well.
[38:23] >> Yes,
[38:23] >> there are two addresses.
[38:25] >> Well, I own 947.
[38:30] >> So, your application is for 947. [music]
[38:33] >> Yes.
[38:34] >> And 945 is what I had said.
[38:36] >> I know, but when I came in several
[38:39] times, it [music] had something to do
[38:41] with a zoning issue and
[38:45] >> Okay. So I kept saying it's 947 and they
[38:48] [music] understand it
[38:49] >> and it was advertised as the comp like
[38:52] when we did the mailings and everything,
[38:54] [music]
[38:54] >> right? I put
[38:55] >> it was advertised for both of them. So
[38:56] >> yeah, I put in parentheses 947 when I
[39:00] sent out the certified [music]
[39:02] >> letters.
[39:05] >> Well, then I think we're on
[39:08] solid ground.
[39:10] I don't think anybody's going to file
[39:13] huge lawsuits.
[39:16] Uh let's see here.
[39:21] » So, you're requesting a variance of use.
[39:27] » And I'll explain that too.
[39:29] >> You normally get these coming in as our
[39:31] special exception or what we used to
[39:32] call conditional uses. Um, so the
[39:34] difference here is she is actually zoned
[39:37] local business and surrounded by HDR
[39:41] more or less. And I can I'm going to
[39:42] actually zoom up here actually in
[39:44] [music] the application. Here we go in
[39:46] the staff report. So she is the this is
[39:50] the parcel we're kind of talking about
[39:51] on the screen. I don't know why that TV
[39:54] turned [music] off, but I don't know if
[39:55] you guys it's in your packet on this
[39:56] page.
[39:57] >> And then the pink around it is HDR. So,
[40:00] HDR, that would be a special exception
[40:02] use local business. Um, it's one of
[40:05] those things that's on my list as we go
[40:06] through the six-month assessment here,
[40:08] and we'll start that in the next month
[40:09] or two to to consider that to just make
[40:12] it permitted um within that district.
[40:15] [music] Uh because you can have a lot
[40:16] more intense commercial uses within
[40:18] local business. The reason it wasn't
[40:19] initially put in there was because we
[40:21] typically don't have our single family
[40:23] dwellings in a local business [music]
[40:24] district in a business district for
[40:26] single family dwellings or you know
[40:28] duplexes. Um now [music] that's not the
[40:32] case cuz I don't know the history of why
[40:34] this little corner is zoned local
[40:37] business and not HDR. [music]
[40:39] Um
[40:40] >> may have been a grocery store once.
[40:42] >> It probably was something at one point.
[40:43] Um, and again, you can kind of see that
[40:46] those are um it's that corner parcel.
[40:50] I'm going to zoom in here and then the 945 947. So, this parcel and then
[40:57] those I don't know why these were zoned
[40:59] at compared to right you could have had
[41:01] something commercial. You have those
[41:02] mixed in with HDR. [music]
[41:04] Um, so that's the need for a variance
[41:06] versus
[41:08] just a special exception. Would it be
[41:10] better all around if she just went to
[41:13] plan commission and just have the
[41:15] property reszoned? Something rational?
[41:17] >> So, we [music] did talk we talked
[41:18] through kind of all the options, right?
[41:20] You can go through use variance, you can go through reszoning. Um, this
[41:25] does preserve more [music] commercial
[41:27] options if you ever wanted to do those
[41:28] in the future. Um, because if you go to
[41:32] HDR, a lot of those commercial options
[41:35] fall off. But right now you could put
[41:37] [music] a hotel on that locate and
[41:40] obviously it's constrained by the site.
[41:42] But [music] um you can put a lot more
[41:44] intense uses on that site.
[41:47] >> So if we give her abuse, we are
[41:49] potentially disrupting a neighborhood
[41:51] where everybody went thinking it was HDR
[41:55] and they wanted to live there and now
[41:57] [music] all of a sudden somebody comes
[41:58] in and puts a gambling casino.
[42:02] >> Be a small one on that parcel, but
[42:04] [laughter]
[42:05] Um, again, I think that's the this use
[42:09] is actually probably more appropriate
[42:10] for the surrounding uses um than a more
[42:14] intense commercial local commercial, you
[42:16] know, use that would be permitted in
[42:17] that LB [music] district. So,
[42:20] >> I can see that may well have been a
[42:22] grocery store because that's West
[42:23] Madison, I think, and that was a whole
[42:26] another entity once upon a time. And
[42:30] there did used to be a lot of
[42:31] neighborhood grocery stores which don't
[42:33] exist anymore.
[42:36] >> And the comprehensive plan does identify
[42:38] this as the neighborhood mixeduse area.
[42:39] [music]
[42:40] So, I know again you have some
[42:41] sprinkling. We used to have a district
[42:43] called the specialty district, the SD
[42:44] district that [music] got kind of
[42:46] combined and absorbed into HDR because
[42:49] it was small scale, right? It wasn't the
[42:51] larger scale um commercial uses. So, but
[42:54] when we did do the map [music] um
[42:56] adoption, we just solely converted the
[42:58] map. Uh with the new UDO, we did not
[43:03] reszone anybody. this would have been
[43:05] one you could have considered but again
[43:07] allowing for those commercial [music]
[43:08] corner stores is I think you know a
[43:11] valid thing too in the future.
[43:15] It's just I see the point of people who
[43:18] buy properties under the assumption that
[43:21] this is just going to be a peaceful
[43:22] neighborhood and either I'm going to
[43:24] live in it or I'm going to put an Airbnb
[43:26] here
[43:28] and my Airbnb is going to be
[43:31] viable because it's such a charming
[43:33] little neighborhood. And then somebody
[43:35] comes in and puts a cowboy bar
[43:38] and there is such a thing over on that
[43:40] side of town in the middle of a
[43:42] residential area. There's a bar.
[43:47] I saw you come out of that.
[43:48] >> But those are permitted by right. I
[43:50] mean, so those commercial uses are
[43:51] permitted by [music] right. Some of
[43:53] those, you know what I mean? By right
[43:55] today. So that's um
[43:59] I think outside that debate, [music] I
[44:01] guess. Does that make sense?
[44:02] >> Yeah.
[44:02] >> Um we'll make sure
[44:06] we're not trying to [music]
[44:08] we're not discussing actually putting
[44:09] anything else like that in there. This
[44:11] brings it down a little bit in terms of
[44:13] the intensity [music] of what it could
[44:14] be by right.
[44:18] >> Board members, I've spoken my beast. Do
[44:21] any of you have any comments, any
[44:22] opinions, any feelings, any questions
[44:25] for applicant?
[44:27] >> I guess you have rules and regulations
[44:30] and
[44:31] >> Yes, I have rules. Uh, no pets. [music]
[44:34] Uh, limited number of people will mostly
[44:37] be used on the weekends.
[44:39] Uh, I have I live my residence is
[44:42] [music] across the street, so I know
[44:45] pretty much what's going on.
[44:47] >> And uh I have a garage to park my
[44:50] vehicles [music] in. So there's plenty
[44:53] of parking in that area even when there
[44:56] are [music] events going on here in town
[44:59] and um the neighbors [music] have been
[45:02] notified and they are in agreement.
[45:04] >> Good.
[45:05] >> And heard back from the neighbors.
[45:07] [music]
[45:08] So, uh, I have a manager who has done
[45:12] this, uh, with quite a few people here
[45:15] in town, and so she's going to basically
[45:18] [music] take care of of running it.
[45:21] >> So, she'll be 24-hour call if needed.
[45:24] >> Yes,
[45:25] >> she'll be on the call,
[45:26] >> right? her phone number be on the wall
[45:28] there somewhere where
[45:29] >> Yes, she I have my own book with her
[45:31] number in it and I have uh
[45:35] extra lock in case something goes wrong
[45:37] with the automatic lock and um I think
[45:42] [music]
[45:43] um actually the neighborhood's kind of
[45:45] improved because I knew that was going
[45:47] to go in because I have to take care of
[45:48] the alleys and some of the other
[45:51] properties [music] that are not being
[45:52] taken care of. I have to clean it up. So
[45:55] it looks presentable. So I think [music]
[45:57] it's been the idea has been beneficial.
[46:01] >> Yeah, you're in the you are in a
[46:03] improving neighborhood.
[46:05] >> Definitely. Things are getting better.
[46:08] So yeah, I think it's be a nice fit.
[46:12] >> Any other questions or comments, board
[46:14] members?
[46:17] >> Scott, you did have one public comment
[46:20] that was submitted. He did put in there
[46:22] he's requesting [music] it to be read.
[46:24] So that's up to you. Um, but at least
[46:26] making sure that gets into the record
[46:27] with you guys from a
[46:29] >> Yes, we are. David Weise.
[46:30] >> David Weise.
[46:34] >> Um, and reading it, you're 947.
[46:38] Correct. One of the statements it does
[46:40] say 9 the the 947 Airbnb was done
[46:44] properly. We have no complaints. That's
[46:46] the 947. I think his complaints do
[46:48] center around 945. [music] So, excluding
[46:51] that, that's
[46:52] >> right. because they do not mow their
[46:55] yard and I
[46:56] >> He does take care,
[46:57] >> you know, I take care of their sidewalk
[46:58] and their alley
[47:00] >> and but I [music] can't go on their
[47:02] property to take care of their lawn,
[47:04] >> right?
[47:04] >> So, uh you know, he lives directly in
[47:08] back [music] of me and um I don't think
[47:12] that we have any problems.
[47:14] >> Okay. And I would make sure any [music]
[47:16] motion specifies 947 and then that's
[47:20] all.
[47:20] >> Right. And you are correct. His letter
[47:22] is mostly about 945.
[47:25] In fact, he compliments 947
[47:29] as being an Airbnb that was done right.
[47:33] Uh can wait one moment. Ma'am, I move we
[47:37] accept this letter from David Weise into
[47:39] the public record.
[47:40] >> I second your motion.
[47:41] >> All in favor say I. I. Oppose. No. It's
[47:44] accepted.
[47:47] >> Uh one last chance. Board members, any
[47:49] other questions or comments?
[47:52] I doubt there will be any public
[47:54] comment.
[47:57] >> Well, you can have a seat, ma'am.
[48:09] And this is a variance of use
[48:15] being done
[48:17] because this is one of those weird
[48:19] things that comes up downtown
[48:23] from a very old downtown that started to
[48:25] have zoning ordinance in 1966.
[48:31] And every so often these things come up.
[48:33] [music] So this is for variance of use.
[48:35] There are five findings of fact.
[48:38] I will go through them and I'm going to
[48:40] ask you each to [music] comment because
[48:44] as one very astute man I knew once put
[48:48] it, a variance of use is an end run
[48:50] around the zoning ordinance.
[48:52] Maybe not in this case because of the
[48:54] circumstances.
[48:57] So number one, it's not injurious to the
[49:00] public health, safety, morals, general
[49:01] welfare. Mr. England.
[49:03] >> No, it's not.
[49:04] >> Mr. Amik,
[49:05] >> I agree it's not.
[49:08] >> Um,
[49:10] I don't see any way it is either. I
[49:12] think that's met. Number two,
[49:15] uh, that's the use and value of adjacent
[49:17] properties not being hurt. Uh, Mr.
[49:20] Eagland,
[49:21] >> I'm referred,
[49:23] >> Mr. Amik.
[49:26] and we've heard no testimony that it
[49:31] potentially will harm
[49:33] property values or anything. So, I think
[49:36] that one's met. Number three,
[49:39] this is a big one. The need for the
[49:41] variance arises from some condition
[49:43] peculiar to this property. What is it,
[49:46] Mr. England?
[49:47] >> The local business.
[49:49] But uh yeah, I think uh I think it's
[49:52] necessary to allow the variance.
[49:56] >> Mr. Amic. [music]
[50:00] » Yeah, I agree.
[50:08] » And that is definitely a peculiarity
[50:11] that it's all zoned HDR.
[50:14] But here's one place that [music] for
[50:16] who knows why
[50:19] was owned local business once
[50:23] and
[50:25] local business does not allow housing
[50:27] like this. So, I think that's pretty
[50:30] valid.
[50:32] Uh, number four,
[50:34] strict application of the zoning
[50:36] ordinance will constitute an unnecessary
[50:38] hardship if it's applied to this
[50:41] property. Mr. England,
[50:44] >> I don't say hardship.
[50:47] >> Mr. ceramic.
[50:51] The unnecessary hardship is that for
[50:56] some bizarre reason, it's not zoomed
[50:58] properly to let it be used for what
[51:00] everything around it is used for.
[51:03] So, I think that one's met. Number five,
[51:08] uh, the approval does not interfere
[51:10] substantially with the comprehensive
[51:12] plan,
[51:14] Mr. Eagland. No, it it does not
[51:16] interfere point,
[51:18] >> Mr. Amik. I agree.
[51:21] And the comprehensive plan is partly
[51:24] that document and partly the list of
[51:26] uses and partly where it is.
[51:31] So, I think that one's met.
[51:34] Okay, we have a motion.
[51:37] Make a motion we accept
[51:40] BZ
[51:41] U-26-5.
[51:44] [music]
[51:46] >> Second. Think we have a roll call?
[51:50] >> Of course. Scott Baldwin.
[51:52] >> Yes.
[51:52] >> Carl England.
[51:53] >> Yes.
[51:53] >> Braining.
[51:54] >> Yes.
[51:56] >> And that concludes our
[52:00] list of items.
[52:02] Miss Williams, is there anything I have
[52:04] forgotten?
[52:04] >> No, there is not. I was just going to
[52:06] [music] note that originally um I think
[52:08] it was because of holidays in September
[52:11] and multiple meetings getting bumped.
[52:14] Originally we were advertised on a
[52:16] Thursday or Tuesday in September. It was
[52:18] revertised as September 14th because
[52:21] nobody was in this room. So we kept our
[52:23] same second Monday schedule. Um so that
[52:26] is noted. It has been readvertised with
[52:28] paper and you know through those
[52:30] channels. [music] Uh but just want to
[52:31] note that in case you had an original
[52:33] schedule.
[52:35] >> Okay.
[52:36] >> Yep.
[52:38] >> Very good. Well,
[52:40] >> that concludes everything. Motion to
[52:42] adjurnn.
[52:43] >> So move.
[52:44] >> All in favor say I.
[52:46] >> I. Post. No. We are ajourned.
[52:56] » [music]