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That's it.

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Just testing my audio for a second.

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Can anybody hear me?
>> All right. Thank you.

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» Yes, we can hear you.

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» [snorts]
>> The hour of 6:30 having come and gone, I

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will call to order the common council
meeting of Tuesday, September 8th, 2026,

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and ask the clerk to please call the
role. Thank you. Alder mayor

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00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:32,440
» here.
>> Alder mayor is present. Alder O'Brien.

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00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,440
» Alder O'Brien is present. Alovichovich

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00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:42,200
» present.
>> Alderovich is present. Alder Pritchette.

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00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:47,839
» Alder Pritch is present. Alder Tishler.
>> I'm I'm here.

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00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,040
» Alder Tishler is present. Alder
>> here.

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00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:53,760
» Alder is present. Alder Vidver
>> here. Vidder is present. Alder Jang

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00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,000
» here.
>> Alder Jang is present. Alder Evers

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» here.
>> Alder is present. Alderfield

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» here.
>> Field is present. Alder Fugal Cole

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00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:06,399
» here.
>> Alder Fuger Cole is present. Alder Glenn

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» here. Alder Glenn is present. Alder Ugar
>> here.

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» Alder Ugar is present. Alder Harrington
McKenna.

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Back. Alder Linkella
>> here.

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00:12:12,959 --> 00:12:16,399
» Alder Kell is present. Alder Lieberman
>> here.

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» Alder Lieberman is present. Alder
Madison

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» here.
>> Alder Madison is present. Alder Martinez

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Rutherford
>> present.

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» Alder Martinez Rutherford is present.
Alder Matthews

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» here.
>> Alder Matthews is present. Madame Mayor

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will quorum.
>> Thank you.

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Our first order of business is a special
order of business and that is item one,

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an appointing resolution, legisar 94145.
And forgive me about to be alder. Tell

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me how to pronounce your last name.

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» Say that again.
>> Enzu.

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» Enzu. appointing Divine and Zeu as Alder
for district 1 to serve until the spring

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2027 election. On item one, can I have a
motion, please?

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» Moved and seconded to adopt item one.
Are there questions?

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Is there discussion?
Seeing none of either, is there any

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objection to recording a unanimous vote
in favor of our new colleague? Seeing no

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objections, we'll record a unanimous
vote in favor. Congratulations, Alder.

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[applause]

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And now we will swear in the new alder.

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» Repeat after me.

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» Turn it.
>> Yeah, it's on.

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» It is on. Okay. Thank you.

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All right.
>> Okay.

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» I state your name. I, Divine and Ziggbu,
>> do so do solemnly affirm

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» do solemnly affirm
>> that I will support the Constitution of

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the United States
>> that I will support the Constitution of

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the United States
>> the Constitution of the State of

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Wisconsin
>> the Constitution of the State of

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Wisconsin
>> and the Charter of the City of Madison

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» and the Charter of the City of Madison
>> and will perform the duties

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» and will perform the duties
>> of the Madison Common Council

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» of the Madison Common Council
>> in and for the Alder of District 1

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» in and forth the Alder of District 1,
>> City of Madison,

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» City of Madison
>> to the best of my ability

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» to the best of my ability.
>> Congratulations.

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» Thank you. [applause]

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» Congratulations, Alder. Um
I will ask all of you to um have

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patience. We may move a little slower
because we have a new colleague who's

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learning the ropes here. Um, one uh of
those ropes, however, that we all have

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to learn tonight is that we have a new
microphone system. I trust you all have

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the instructions and you have perused
them. I saw some of you testing out the

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system earlier. Um, so I think it will
go smoothly, but just to make folks

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aware. Um, and uh feel free to ask
questions if you don't understand

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emotion. And certainly your colleagues
can help you, but you can also ask for a

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00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:19,600
point of information um if you need
something that we're going through

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explained. And everybody here needed
something. So don't hesitate. Um all

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right. And then uh as usual, I will just
say um that we're here to do the

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business of the people of the city of
Madison. And I ask so that we do with

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grace and kindness and respect. and that
all concerned who are speaking tonight

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refrain from using profanity in your
remarks and to um treat the business of

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the council with the respect that it
deserves. Um I will also say that

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everyone who speaks does have a time
limit. Um whether that's people who are

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here for public comment or alders on the
floor, you should not feel the need to

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use all of your time, particularly
alders who have a 10-minute time limit.

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um is it's not necessary to use that
much time. Um I do expect that we will

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have a long evening and I ask again that
folks just be patient with each other um

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as we work through the agenda. All
right.

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So our next order of business is
honoring resolutions uh which is item

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two legisar 94589
for claiming September 2026 to be

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national recovery month. We do not have
anyone here to receive this

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proclamation. So I would ask for a
motion, please.

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» Moved and seconded to adopt item two. Is
there any objection to recording a

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unanimous vote in favor?

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00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:56,240
Seeing no objection. Oh, I'm sorry. We
do have one person who wished to speak

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um on item two.
Do we have Barbie Jackson of Dylan Drive

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with us?

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Doesn't look like it.
>> Yes, this is Barbie. I am here.

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» Um I'm sorry. I thought we were going to
the next agenda item. I have to get out

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of the kitchen and back to my where I
can read this. Um are we ready?

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» Yes. Please go ahead.
>> Thank you. Good evening, President

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00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:30,160
Madison and Alders. My name is Barbie
Jackson. I'm a 59-year resident of

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00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:34,799
Madison, a member of Moses and Orchard
Ridge United Church of Christ, which is

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one of 21 congregational and nonprofit
organizational members of Moses.

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I am grounded in these affiliations, but
tonight I am speaking to you as a

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private citizen, not on behalf of either
organization.

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I am registered in support of agenda
items 2 and 60, which I will address

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later. Item two, sponsored by all
members of this body, proclaims this

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month as National Recovery Month. From
the SAMs website, this week's theme is

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reducing stigma through storytelling.
The second point within this theme is

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that authentic storytelling in community
spaces,

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police precincts, city councils, and
public forums can shift how policies are

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written, how resources are allocated,
and how people in recovery are treated.

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So, let me tell you a true story,
although secondhand.

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I know a man who suffered for 15 years
with severe mental health issues at the

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end of the last century. Toward the end
of these struggles while living in

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Texas, he saw a bright light in the
night. He heard a voice tell him to walk

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into the light. So, trusting this inner
voice, he did so, only to encounter

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police dealing with a serious matter.
The priest police wrestled him to the

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ground to keep him from interfering. And
while he struggled to get free, he was

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roughed up and injured before they were
able to handcuff him and take him to

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prison. He was ultimately released
without charges. And a few years later,

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after self-admitting into a mental
institution at least one more time in

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his life, he finally recovered and has
lived a productive and happy life for

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the past 30 years. He recalls that one
officer had a shotgun, but he tossed it

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into the police car before helping rec
to restrain him. Thankfully, no shots

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were fired. I want to ask each member of
the common council to reflect on this

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story and to think about any personal
life experiences they may have had with

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people suffering from mental health
challenges. Were they moderate or

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severe? Did they include hallucinations
or other forms of disconnection with

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ordinary reality? Was adequate mental
health treatment and other services

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provided? Was the individual housed? Did
the person turn to street drugs as a way

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to cope with depression or some other
feelings?

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» About 30 seconds left.
>> As we honor National Recovery Month,

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let's honor people with mental health
and substance use issues as they strive

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to live their lives.
And let's remember that Corey Ruiz

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struggled mightily as well. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Are there any questions for

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00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:15,840
the registrant on this item?
Seeing none,

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then is there any discussion of item
two?

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00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,520
Seeing none, it's been moved and
seconded. Is there any objection to

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recording unanimous vote in favor?
Seeing no objection, recording unanimous

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00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:32,880
vote in favor of item two. That brings
us to disclosures and recusals. Are

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00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:37,919
there any disclosures or recusals on
items on tonight's agenda? And let me

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00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:44,080
just pause and explain that um if you
have either a um financial interest or

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00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,760
any kind of organizational relationship
with any of the items on the agenda, now

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00:20:45,919 --> 00:20:54,080
would be the time that you would say,
for example, I work for the University

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00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:58,799
of Wisconsin and there's an item, you
know, item 33 is about the university,

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but that's not going to affect my vote
because it's a different department or

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00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:08,799
whatever. Um or if your family had a
liquor license on the agenda, you might

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00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:13,600
recuse yourself from that because it
would be in your family's financial best

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00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:17,600
interest to to have it go one way or the
other. So that said, are there any

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disclosures or recusals on today's
agenda? Alder Harrington McKenna.

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00:21:19,679 --> 00:21:28,320
» Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um item 112
94609.

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00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:32,320
I'd like to recuse myself.
>> Thank you, Alder.

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00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:39,440
Are there any other disclosures or
recusals on tonight's agenda?

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00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:42,960
Seeing none, and we'll go to the
presentation of the consent agenda.

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00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:48,559
President Madison,
>> uh, thanks, Mayor. A consent agenda is

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00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:53,440
moved. Can you hear me now?
>> Bring them. They're very directional,

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00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:58,480
apparently, these mics.
>> Now,

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00:21:56,159 --> 00:22:03,919
better. Do I have to be like all up?
Okay. All right. So, a consent agenda is

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moved with a recommendation action
listed for each item on the agenda,

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00:22:06,159 --> 00:22:13,039
including public hearings, except one,
items which have registrants wishing to

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00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:18,000
speak, two items which have separated
out for discussion uh and or debate

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00:22:15,679 --> 00:22:21,280
purposes. This document lists super
majority items, agenda items with

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00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:25,600
recommendations different from the
agenda, items for exclusion, items

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00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:30,240
introduced from the floor, and agenda
items with corrections. Agenda items

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00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:35,200
that are supermajority items. Please
note, supermajority vote items will be

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00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:41,520
recorded as unanimous votes unless a
roll call or exclusion is requested.

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00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:46,400
Agenda item 48, legislative file number
94633,

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00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:51,280
amending the 2026 adopted parking
division capital budget to transfer

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00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:57,440
existing budget from the single space
meter replacement project to the overure

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00:22:54,559 --> 00:23:01,600
garage led/ele electrical upgrade
district 4

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00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:07,360
um report of engineering division 14
votes required to adopt under suspension

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00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:15,200
of MGO 2.055 055. 15 votes are required
to amend the budget. Agenda item 59,

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00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:20,720
legislative file number 94250,
a substitute amending the 2026 Economic

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00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:26,159
Development Division ED operating budget
by transferring 75,000 from the other

166
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:31,200
agency budgets to EDDD and authorizing
intra departmental transfers within ED

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00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:35,039
approving program materials and
authorizing the economic development

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00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:39,200
division to administer a Williamson
Street business stabilization program.

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00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:43,600
District six, report of finance
committee, 15 votes required. Agenda

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00:23:42,159 --> 00:23:47,520
items with recommendations different
from the agenda. There are no items in

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00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:52,799
this section.
Agenda items excluded by one, request of

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00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:59,679
alders or two speakers by noon on
September 8th. Agenda item four, which

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00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:05,440
is legislative file number 93802,
appeal of the landmarks commission's

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00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:11,840
approval of a land division at 113 Eli
Place in the University Heights Historic

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00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:17,679
District, legislative file ID 93071.
Uh, agenda item number nine, legislative

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00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:22,720
file number 93894,
approving a landmark nomination of the

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00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:28,960
property located at 222 East Oland
Avenue as the Wonder Bar in District 14.

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00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:35,520
Agenda item number 14, legislative file
number 94183, which is a substitute

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00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:41,679
creating section 28.022 022
00759 of the Madison General ordinances

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00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:47,919
to change the zoning property located at
8302 McDow Drive at the northeastern

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00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:51,440
corner of Midtown Road and South
Pleasant View Road from temporary

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00:24:49,679 --> 00:24:56,320
Agricultural
District to TR-UT

183
00:24:53,840 --> 00:25:02,480
which is traditional residential- urban
2 uh district and creating section

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00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:06,240
28.02200760 02200760
of the Madison General ordinances to

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00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:12,320
change the zoning of property located at
8302 McDow Drive from temporary A uh

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00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:15,320
district and creating section
28.022-00819

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00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:26,240
of the Madison general ordinances to
change the zoning of property located at

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00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:31,520
8302 McDow Drive from temporary A
district 1. Okay. Agenda item 15. And

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00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,320
I'm going to move around this and not
have all of these little extra things,

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00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:41,120
y'all. So, but you have the papers
orders. So, agenda item 15, legislative

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00:25:37,679 --> 00:25:45,880
file number 94184,
uh, creating section 28.022-0057

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00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,880
022-0000757

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00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:54,000
of the Madison General ordinances to
change the zoning of property located at

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00:25:51,120 --> 00:26:00,679
10001 Wisconsin place from PD district
to amended PD uh district and creating

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00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:00,679
section 28.022-00758

196
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:11,200
to approve a specific implementation
plan in district 2. Agenda item 59,

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00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:15,760
legislative file number 94250,
a substitute amending the 2026 economic

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00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:22,320
development division EDDD operating
budget by transferring 75,000 from the

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00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:27,600
other agency budgets to a EDDD and
authorizing intra departmental transfers

200
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:31,120
within ED. approving a pro approving
program materials and authorizing the

201
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,880
economic development division to
administer a Williamson Street business

202
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,640
stabilization support program for
district 6

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00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:44,159
or um agenda item 60 which is
legislative file number 94261

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00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:49,200
amending the 2026 adopted operating
budget by transferring 28,500

205
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:53,120
from the contingent reserve to the
office of the independent monitor for

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00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:57,679
additional staffing and service costs
and directing staff to provide a full

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00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:03,039
accounting of costs associated with the
city's critical incident response

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00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:10,880
between July 22nd, 2026 and September
8th, 2026. Um, agenda item 68, which is

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00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:15,200
legislative file number 94196,
authorizing the mayor and the city clerk

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00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:20,480
to execute a contract between the city
of Madison and

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00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:24,400
for planning, engineering, and public
engagement services for East Washington

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00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:29,600
Avenue.
um and Shrader Road uh which is

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00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:36,960
districts. This covers districts 3, 12,
17, 19, and 20. Items introduced from

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00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:41,120
the floor. Legislative file number 94616
authorizing the finance director to

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00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:45,520
execute a contract amendment with Clear
Gov, Inc. to add software modules for

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00:27:43,919 --> 00:27:50,400
capital budgeting and financial
reporting. uh from finance committee 94

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00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:56,799
or so I'm sorry finance committee
September 14 2026 back to council

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00:27:53,200 --> 00:28:00,799
September 22nd 2026 legislative legisar
file number 94641

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00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:04,000
directing the chief of police to report
on the status of the recommendations

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00:28:02,159 --> 00:28:07,919
regarding the policies and procedures of
the Madison Police Department Alder

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00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:13,919
Glenn uh police civilian oversight board
September 16th 2026 common council

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00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:18,080
September 22nd 2026 agenda items with
corrections there are no items in that

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00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:18,080
section

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00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:25,760
Thank you, President Madison. I'd like
to note that uh the registrant on item

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00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:32,640
15 withdrew but is available for
questions. So, we will not be separating

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00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:38,559
item 15 unless an alder requests that.
Um, are there other items that members

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00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:43,559
of the body would like to see excluded
from the consent agenda at this time?

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00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:52,880
Seeing none,
uh, explanatory, comma, for our new

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00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:57,279
alder, the consent agenda is we're
passing basically everything on our

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00:28:54,799 --> 00:29:01,520
agenda except for the items that the
council president just read. So, we

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00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:06,880
won't work through each and every item
on the list. We'll just skip to the ones

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00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:12,960
that that are pulled off. Um, and
everything else um will be passed on

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00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:19,279
consent. Seeing no additional items, let
me just go over that one more time. So

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00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:26,559
noting that on item 48, 14 votes are
required. We will be separating items 4,

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00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:35,080
9, 14,
59, 60, and 68. We have two

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00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,080
introductions from the floor.

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00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:42,559
All right. Anything else on the consent
agenda? Seeing none, then President

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00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,080
Madison, a motion, please.
>> Motion to adopt.

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00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:49,039
» Second.
>> Moved and seconded to adopt the consent

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00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:53,360
agenda.
Is there any objection to recording

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00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,200
unanimous vote in favor of the consent
agenda?

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00:29:55,279 --> 00:30:01,279
Seeing no objection, we'll record a
unanimous vote in favor of the consent

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00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:06,200
agenda.
And that will take us to public comment.

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00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:15,679
So, our first item for public comment is
agenda item number

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00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:20,640
four, the appeal of the landmarks
commission's approval of a land division

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00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:25,679
at 113 Eli Place in the University
Heights Historic District. Our first

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00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:31,200
registrant wishing to speak is Laura
Collier of District 5 to be followed by

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00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:37,600
Aaron Garry to be followed by Robbie
Canana. Do we have Laura?

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00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:41,440
Yes, I am here. Thank you for allowing
me to speak.

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00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,360
» Go ahead.
>> So, I am writing to urge you or I am

251
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:50,000
speaking to urge you to reverse the
landmarks commission approval of the

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00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:56,159
land division at 113 Elie Place. [gasps]
I concur with the concerns outlined in

253
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:59,919
the June 2022 appeal submitted by my
neighbor who will also be speaking,

254
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:04,720
Aaron Gary. Those who attended the
landmarks commission, myself included,

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00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:09,279
witnessed um what I would describe as
confusing information presented by staff

256
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:13,279
to the commission. And I feel that
decisions of this significance should be

257
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:17,840
based on clear, accurate, and complete
information. Yet, I personally feel that

258
00:31:15,919 --> 00:31:22,799
that was not the case during the June
8th hearing. I would also like to

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00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:28,799
highlight an additional concern um that
while the June 22nd appeal references a

260
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:33,279
lot size of approximately 401 square
feet. Um the survey map that was

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00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:36,880
submitted by the owner clearly shows
that this figure includes a narrow

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00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:41,200
panhandle portion that connects the lot
to Summit Avenue which is not buildable.

263
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:45,519
And so therefore, the buildable area of
the lot appears closer to be 3,500

264
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:51,039
square f feet, which would make it
approximately half the size of the

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00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:54,399
smallest adjacent lot. So this important
fact was not clearly presented to the

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00:31:52,799 --> 00:32:00,080
landmarks commission when when
describing um its size and the size of

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00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:04,880
adjacent lots. And so therefore, I feel
that the U. Landmarks Commission members

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00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:10,080
were not uh therefore left without an
accurate understanding of the lot's true

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00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:14,320
buildable area and its relationship to
surrounding properties. So I

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00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:18,880
respectfully ask that the common council
reverse the approval and ensure that any

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00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:22,960
future consideration of this proposal is
based on complete and accurate

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00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:27,840
presentation of the facts. Thank you so
much for allowing me to speak.

273
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:32,240
» Thank you. Our next registrant is Aaron
Garary of District 5 to be followed by

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00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:36,880
Robbie Canana to be followed by Ruth
Kurley. We have Aaron.

275
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,080
» Good evening. Thank you for the
opportunity to be here. I have

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00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:42,880
» Erin, I'm going to ask that you only
speak into the mic because we have

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00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:45,880
people on Zoom that can't hear you
otherwise.

278
00:32:59,679 --> 00:33:04,240
Good evening. Thank you for the
opportunity to be here. This is an

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00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:09,440
appeal of a landmarks commission
decision approving a land division in

280
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:14,880
University Heights. Madison ordinances
require the lot created in a land

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00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:20,880
division to be compatible in size with
adjacent lots. 17 neighbors appealed the

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00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:27,440
landmarks commission decision because
this standard was not satisfied and the

283
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:32,799
landmarks uh commission used an
erroneous legal standard. So what

284
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:39,039
property are we talking about?
113 Ele

285
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:44,960
is this property right here. It's kind
of an L-shaped. This map was generated

286
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:52,159
by the landmarks commission. I added the
blue markings to identify the salient

287
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:58,320
features. The existing property 113 Ele
is this L-shaped. I have marked the new

288
00:33:54,399 --> 00:34:04,240
lot with an X. It says 4,01 square ft.
What does that lot look like? It looks

289
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:10,560
like this. It's a dense green space.
It's an urban forest. It's been vacant

290
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:15,599
for 130 years. There are multiple trees
on it that are more than a hundred years

291
00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:21,200
old. The application for land division
proposes to make it a buildable lot. If

292
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:25,919
a house is built here, it will be more
than a million dollars. That is not

293
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:32,639
affordable housing. That does not
contribute to solving Madison's housing

294
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:38,399
affordability issues. So, this map right
here, as I said, generated by the

295
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:46,000
landmarks commission, this address is
167 North Prospect. This address is 1806

296
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Summit. This address is 101 Elely Place.
Those are the only three adjacent lots

297
00:34:49,679 --> 00:35:02,880
to the proposed new lot. These figures,
12,000 square ft for 167 North Prospect,

298
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:11,280
more than three times bigger than the
proposed new lot. the others 9,500

299
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:15,359
7,000 those are almost almost twice as
big and more than two about two and a

300
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:21,839
half times as big. You can see in the
bar chart right here that the new lot in

301
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:27,760
red is much smaller than the adjacent
lots. Um finally what I would like to

302
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:32,240
highlight is that what you see here in
the figures the the the properties

303
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:36,000
identified that's the property described
in the register of deeds records. You

304
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,599
have about 30 seconds left.
>> Pardon me.

305
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:42,640
» You about 30 seconds.
>> That is what a lot means. The property

306
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:49,040
described
depicted right here, the landmarks

307
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:55,280
commission aired by relying on invisible
historic plat lines. Instead of looking

308
00:35:51,760 --> 00:36:00,880
at the lots as described in the register
of deeds records, which is the

309
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:05,839
definition of lot under MGO 41.02,
please reverse the landmarks commission.

310
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:11,599
your time. Thank you.
>> Our next registrant is Robbie Quintana

311
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:17,720
of District 5 to be followed by Ruth
Kurley to be followed by Chairman Leu.

312
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,720
Do we have Robbie?

313
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:28,400
» Good evening everyone. Uh my name is
Robbie Kintana. I am the owner of 113

314
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:33,520
Elite Place. Um I wear a lot of hats.
I'm a grad student, PhD student here at

315
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:38,400
UW. I'm a business owner and I'm a
faculty at Madison College. One thing I

316
00:36:35,839 --> 00:36:42,480
am not is a land developer. So I want to
address the reason for doing the slot

317
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:46,880
split is to get market value of my lot
and my land is not at this time to

318
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:52,480
develop any kind of housing properties
or destroy any trees. Um so I just

319
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:57,200
wanted to raise two things briefly and
then I'll get out of here. Um one thing

320
00:36:54,720 --> 00:37:01,280
the appeal itself doesn't address is
that they argue adjacent means

321
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:05,760
immediately joining lots. But under that
exact standard, my own existing lot that

322
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:12,480
directly borders the new lot isn't
included in these math in this math or

323
00:37:07,839 --> 00:37:15,599
these averages. So, um, so they're so
using their own preferred definition

324
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:20,320
correctly applied, their own math is
incomplete when they're doing these

325
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:24,320
averages. Um, the appeal also argues lot
must be read as the same as parcel

326
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:29,520
everywhere in the code. The city's
attorney memo, which was just uploaded

327
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:34,240
to this file this um morning, says the
opposite is true here specifically. Uh

328
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:38,240
my property's parcel already contains
multiple historical plats. Lot and

329
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:42,079
parcel aren't interchangeable at this
address. And this is from an objective

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00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,200
source on the matter, not me, someone
who has a vested interest, and not my

331
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:50,320
neighbors who also have their own
interests. So I'd ask I'd ask you to

332
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,839
weigh this against the reading of the
professionals with no personal stake in

333
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:58,320
this outcome. the landmarks commission,
the city attorney um interpreting their

334
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,240
job is to interpret the ordinance, not
mine or my neighbors. That's all I have

335
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,800
to say. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next registrant is Ruth

336
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:11,079
Kurley of District 5 to be followed by
Chairman Leu. Do we have Ruth?

337
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:24,440
I don't see Ruth in the room.
Ruth should have permission to speak

338
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,440
online.

339
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:31,200
» Ruth, you should be able to
>> Can you hear me?

340
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:38,240
» Yes. Go ahead.
>> Okay. Uh my um my husband and I, Shimon

341
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:44,000
Louu, and I support the appeal of the
June 8th landmarks decision. In our

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00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:49,680
written submission to all alders earlier
today, we focused on key fallacies that

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00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:55,280
led to the approval of the proposed lot
subdivision. Um, could Mr. Gary please

344
00:38:52,720 --> 00:39:00,960
display the bar chart.
The red bar, which shows the size of the

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00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:06,720
proposed lot, is not compatible in size
with the three blue bars, which show the

346
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:10,960
adjacent lot sizes. But it took the
commission nearly 58 minutes to

347
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:16,560
determine the opposite.
To reach such a conclusion, one would

348
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:24,240
need to argue A that the blue bars don't
represent lots or B that those lots

349
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:29,440
aren't the only adjacent lots or both.
First, are they lots? At the June 8th

350
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:34,160
landmarks meeting, staff did not define
lot, yet its definition is key to the

351
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:39,280
decision.
Um, it has rectified that omission for

352
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:43,920
this evening's hearing.
Staff argued then and in its submission

353
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:49,920
for this evening that these are parcels
and not lots.

354
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:56,240
But council in enacting MGO41.02
defined a lot in this way. Quote, "Lot

355
00:39:53,359 --> 00:40:02,160
means attractive land designated by
meets and bounds, land survey, minor

356
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:07,599
land division, or platt recorded with
the Dayne County Register of Deeds." End

357
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:13,680
quote. You can go to the Dayne County
Register of Deeds as Mr. Gary has done

358
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:20,320
and verify that these tracks or parcels
or properties are duly registered. They

359
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:29,079
may be other things too like parcels,
but at the very least they are therefore

360
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:29,079
lots unambiguously per MGO41.02.

361
00:40:29,839 --> 00:40:40,480
Um my husband Shimon Louu will continue
when his turn is available. Thank you.

362
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:45,800
» Thank you. And our final registrant
wishing to speak is Shimone Louu of

363
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,800
District 5.

364
00:40:53,839 --> 00:40:58,720
I believe he's in the registrant list
online.

365
00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:01,720
There you go. You should be able to
unmute

366
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:12,280
and you should be able to speak.
>> I'm speaking.

367
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,280
» Yep. We can hear you now.

368
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:20,040
» Go ahead.
>> Uh, okay. Sorry for the

369
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:34,000
Sorry, sorry for the glitch here. Um
so I just wanted to continue what my

370
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:38,480
wife uh began. So the second question is
whether these lots are adjacent

371
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:43,040
and in plain English as well as
historical precedent in these very

372
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:49,280
chambers adjacent means having a common
border. Uh could Mr. Gary please display

373
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:54,720
the map showing the proposed lot and the
lots adjacent to it?

374
00:41:51,839 --> 00:42:02,160
Um,
these three are the only lots having a

375
00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:06,880
common border with the proposed lot. Uh,
of course, Mr. Quantana points out that

376
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:14,599
his lot also does. His his other lot
does. Um, it's also larger as I recall.

377
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:14,599
Uh,

378
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:22,960
so staff led commissioners through a
variety of observations. We're talking

379
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:29,119
about the June 8th Landmarks Commission
meeting through a variety of

380
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:33,680
observations unrelated to adjacency.
These are quotes. Quote, "We've got the

381
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:38,079
swoopiness that happens here in the
heart of University Heights." Close

382
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,920
quote.
Quote, "There would not even be the

383
00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:48,720
these would not even be the smallest
lots on the block." Close quote. Now, it

384
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:53,200
so happens that our lot, Ruths and Mine,
uh are the small is the smallest lot on

385
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:58,960
the block, but it is by no means
adjacent. Another quote, quote, "The lot

386
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:06,480
configurations in University Heights are
messy." Close quote. None of these

387
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:11,280
observations have to do with adjacency.
Staff's observations, these observations

388
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:18,400
obscure the simple fact of adjacency
clearly shown on Mr. car's map.

389
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:22,160
In conclusion, I hope you can see why 17
households, including ours, have

390
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:27,280
petitioned to appeal the June 8th
decision. We ask you to anchor your

391
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:34,319
decision in the plain language of MGO
41.18

392
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:39,440
PN 4 and MGO 41.02,
grant the appeal, and overturn the

393
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:43,760
landmark's decision. Thank you very much
for your time.

394
00:43:41,359 --> 00:43:48,079
» Thank you. We have no other registrants
wishing to speak on item four. Are there

395
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,480
questions for any other registrants on
item four?

396
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:59,560
Seeing none
and we'll go on.

397
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:06,960
Uh the next item that we have
registrants wishing to speak on is item

398
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:11,200
nine.
Item nine is approving a landmark

399
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:18,480
nomination of the property located at
222 East Olan Avenue as the Wonderb Bar

400
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:23,359
in District 14. We have two regents
wishing to speak. Uh first is Dan

401
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:27,880
Canelli of District 13 to be followed by
Alex Saludos. Dan.

402
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,839
All right. Um, yeah. Good evening,
mayor. Good evening, members of the

403
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:44,640
council. Thank you for the opportunity
to speak tonight. Uh, I do want to

404
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:48,240
particularly thank Alders Lieberman and
Alder Evers for all their time and

405
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:52,319
attention on this matter over the last
few months. Uh, I'm Dan Canelli with

406
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:57,280
Range Hill Partners. We're the
prospective developer of the property.

407
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:01,040
Um, I'm also a resident of the
neighborhood. I live about four blocks

408
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:06,000
from this site. I've lived there for 18
years. So, um, not just a developer

409
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:10,880
seeking to develop this site. This is
also my neighborhood, uh, which I care

410
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:15,040
about very much. Uh, I'm here to ask you
to agree with the recommendation from

411
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:20,400
the landmarks commission and the
preservation planner to deny the request

412
00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:24,160
to landmark the wonderbar. Um, I'm not
an expert on historic preservation. Uh,

413
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,599
but the landmarks commission is, the
city's historic preservation planner

414
00:45:25,839 --> 00:45:31,680
definitely is, and they reached the
right conclusion here. Um the Wonderb

415
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:36,880
Bar really does not rise to the level
where it should be designated a landmark

416
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:40,960
for a couple of reasons. One, um you
know, a lot of the stories about this

417
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:44,079
building are really myths. And myths and
folklore can be meaningful. They can

418
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:48,560
have a place in a neighborhood's
history, but when it comes to the city

419
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:52,720
using its power to designate a landmark,
there really should [clears throat] be

420
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:56,480
more historical evidence behind that. Uh
second, a lot of the purported history

421
00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:01,920
of this building is really about its
connections to organized crime. uh and

422
00:45:59,359 --> 00:46:05,280
violence and exploitation and we
shouldn't sweep that history under the

423
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:10,160
rug, but I think it's problematic to
really try to elevate it with a landmark

424
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:14,079
building. And then third, there's just a
practical reality that this building is

425
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:19,680
obsolete. It's small. It's past its
useful life. Um there's no viable

426
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:23,599
economic way to repurpose this building.
Um there's, you know, been conversations

427
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,880
about keep the building on site and
build something next to it. Uh previous

428
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,920
developer looked at that. that if it
worked, it would have been built by now.

429
00:46:28,319 --> 00:46:34,400
Uh we took a close look at it. There's
just a variety of reasons why why that

430
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,920
approach doesn't work. So ultimately,
this is a decision about community

431
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:43,280
priorities. Uh we're working on a plan
for redeveloping this rare regional

432
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:48,000
mixeduse site for a really highquality
mixeduse building on this gateway

433
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:51,920
location. Um and the alternative if the
building becomes a landmark is the most

434
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:57,680
likely outcome without buyin from the
owner is it will uh just continue to sit

435
00:46:54,319 --> 00:47:01,520
vacant. So again, um really ask you to
uh affirm the recommendation from your

436
00:46:59,839 --> 00:47:07,359
subject matter expert experts on the
landmarks commission and vote against uh

437
00:47:04,319 --> 00:47:11,760
and vote against this nomination. Um if
you have any questions for me, uh happy

438
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:14,640
to answer uh anything you have. Thanks
for your service and thanks very much

439
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:20,480
again.
>> Thank you. Our la next and final

440
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:23,800
registrant on this item is Alex Sudos of
District 5.

441
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:37,480
Thank you, mayor.

442
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:44,319
Um,
I'm one of the four sponsors uh of the

443
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:48,160
Wonderbar nomination.
Um,

444
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,359
the council must refer this nomination
back to the landmarks commission with

445
00:47:49,839 --> 00:47:55,280
instructions.
the ordinance and your own city

446
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:59,599
attorney's advice require it. Our
written comments include a suggested

447
00:47:57,359 --> 00:48:04,480
motion.
Uh five reasons for this. First, the

448
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:10,640
staff report recommends denial on a
standard that is not in the ordinance.

449
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:15,280
It says, quote, "Not a history that the
city of Madison should promote or

450
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:21,599
celebrate." Unquote.
MGO 41072 lists five standards. None

451
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:27,760
asked that.
MGO41076

452
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:35,760
requires that you vote quote
based on the standards under sub two.

453
00:48:31,839 --> 00:48:39,040
Those five and no uh no others. The
commission's own policy manual states

454
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:44,319
where decision-making standards are
listed in the ordinances, the commission

455
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:48,720
must follow them.
The city attorney's office told this

456
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:55,880
council in 23 that their vote on a
nomination is quote based on the

457
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,880
standards set forth in 41072.

458
00:48:56,079 --> 00:49:04,559
Second, the report states two material
facts with no evidence and staff has

459
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:08,960
refused to pro produce it. It says the
property quote deliberately aligned

460
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:14,640
itself with the racist movie unquote. It
says other businesses renamed themselves

461
00:49:11,359 --> 00:49:19,440
after the film. The commission's vote
was based on these claims.

462
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:24,800
I asked for the evidence of these claims
three times. On Friday, the preservation

463
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:30,480
planner wrote that she would not provide
it. Third, a vote to deny tonight makes

464
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:35,680
this new standard the city's rule
without this council ever voting on it.

465
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:40,720
If you want to use this standard, amend
chapter 41.

466
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:45,200
Fourth, in 21, the preservation planner
documented the building's history. The

467
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:48,960
commission plan commission and landmarks
commission found it historically

468
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:53,040
historically significant and the plan
commission denied a demolition permit on

469
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:57,200
that basis.
Nothing has changed since.

470
00:49:55,599 --> 00:50:01,520
Fifth, the commission adopted no
findings and named no ordinance

471
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:06,000
standard. Its own staff told it to. Its
own manual requires it.

472
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:09,839
» Recording stopped.
>> I'm sorry.

473
00:50:08,319 --> 00:50:13,760
Go ahead. I think we're having trouble
with the Zoom.

474
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,079
» Okay. Uh, I'm just about done. A
referral does not overrule the

475
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:21,280
commission.
>> Recording in progress.

476
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:24,880
» Sorry. Go ahead.
>> Um, okay. I'll restart here. Uh,

477
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:28,160
referral does not overrule the
commission. It sends the nomination back

478
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:32,720
to be decided on the ordinance
standards. You have two choices

479
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:37,040
consistent with chapter 41. Apply
MGO41072

480
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:44,000
as written or amend it. A vote tonight
to deny landmark designation does

481
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:49,920
neither. [snorts] Uh finally, uh um
about the myths, the crime, and the

482
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:52,880
violence Mr. Kennley referenced,
none of them are in the nomination.

483
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:56,640
» Another 10 seconds.
>> They're a myth and they have nothing to

484
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:59,680
do with the nomination.
Thank you.

485
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:05,200
» Thank you.
Uh that's our last registrant on item

486
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:08,359
nine. Are there questions for either of
the registrants?

487
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:18,839
Seeing none,
then we'll go on to our next item.

488
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,880
» Sounds like we're muted for the Zoom.

489
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:41,960
I do not seem to have the ability to
unmute.

490
00:51:55,119 --> 00:52:04,079
I don't know if the tech staff can hear
me, but

491
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:10,920
I'm don't think I can give myself the
the CCB 2011

492
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,920
the ability to unmute

493
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:26,640
you teams then please. Thank you. We're
going to stand in formal while we figure

494
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:31,000
out this technical issue.
Thank you, Alder, for alerting us.

495
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,760
Alder, you can't hear us.

496
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,880
Nope.

497
00:52:58,319 --> 00:53:01,880
Can you hear us now?

498
00:53:04,319 --> 00:53:11,040
Can anyone who's on Zoom hear us?
Yes.

499
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:15,440
» Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate

500
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:21,119
it.
>> All right.

501
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:24,960
So, let's try that again.
Those are the registers we have on item

502
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:28,281
nine. Are there questions for either of
the registrants? [snorts]

503
00:53:29,359 --> 00:53:36,920
Seeing none,
then we will move on.

504
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:49,760
And
the next item that we have someone

505
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:55,680
wishing to speak on is
agenda item

506
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:59,359
14, [sighs]
which is a substitute creating sections

507
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:07,119
of the Madison General ordinances to
change the zoning of a property located

508
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:12,880
at located at 8302 McDow drive
um from

509
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:17,200
uh temporary A agricultural district to
TRU2

510
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:24,240
and creating sections of the Madison
General ordinances to change the zoning

511
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:28,160
of that same property uh to CCT
which is commercial corridor

512
00:54:25,359 --> 00:54:34,880
transitional and
also to TRU1.

513
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:39,599
On item 14,
uh, the only registrant we have wishing

514
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:44,400
to speak is Bonnie Wendorf of District 1
representing the Tyberon Condominium

515
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:47,119
Homeowners Association. Do we have
Bonnie?

516
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:52,000
» Yes, you do.
>> Go ahead, please. Yes, go ahead.

517
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:58,400
» I'm Bonnie Wendorf. I am the president
of the Tibbron Condominium Homeowners

518
00:54:54,079 --> 00:55:04,079
Association. Um and we are not
necessarily opposed to this particular

519
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:07,920
item. Um if we're talking about the
development itself, you know, we'd

520
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:11,920
rather leave it a farm field. But since
uh it's not going to happen that way, um

521
00:55:10,319 --> 00:55:16,720
we are certainly in favor of the
proposal to the extent that it it uh

522
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:21,839
reduces the density on several of the
lots in the uh development and makes it

523
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:26,640
a little bit more palatable for our
owners who some of whom have been there

524
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:31,440
many years and who are used to having un
uh limited views to the west and now

525
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:36,160
they're going to have uh a lot of large
buildings in their way. And so in that

526
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:40,160
to that extent that the density has been
reduced, I don't think anybody would

527
00:55:37,839 --> 00:55:44,160
oppose it. Um we have certain concerns
that we just want to reiterate again

528
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:48,480
with regard to this development. One is
traffic and the devel and the opening of

529
00:55:46,319 --> 00:55:53,440
Mayo Drive. Mayo Drive is going to be
the only looks like the only east west

530
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:59,040
um path through this particular
subdivision. And um from the perspective

531
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:06,160
of Mayo Drive, Mayo Drive is not built
to handle uh large amounts of traffic

532
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:11,119
and it it is narrow as it passes our our
building and u there's a there's a kind

533
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:15,200
of an odd intersection with star grass.
We have some concerns about that and we

534
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:19,440
just want to register that again so that
the city takes a very hard look at that

535
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:23,920
and make sure that that traffic flow is
being handled correctly. Um we we have

536
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:30,160
some concerns for the character of the
neighborhood. Some of the um proposed um

537
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:36,400
zoning changes have addressed some of
those in in that they are going to ease

538
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:42,559
the um the density in the three lots
immediately adjacent to the uh the

539
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:47,200
neighbors in Midtown Commons. And we um
I think we we we we like the

540
00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:52,559
reasonzoning to the extent that it
reduces the number of uh units on each

541
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:57,520
of those lots to 58 instead of 100 and
whatever it was. Um, and but I noticed

542
00:56:55,280 --> 00:57:03,280
in the notes that they talk about a a
height a height allowance of like five

543
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:07,760
stories, which would for us be really a
a hard hit because right now there's no

544
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:13,760
building on our on that side on our side
of the the the the lot line. That would

545
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:17,920
be above about three stories. So that
would be a change. I don't know how much

546
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:22,880
easing that would be to put fivetory
buildings uh on the lots closest to us.

547
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:27,599
about.
>> Oh, okay. All right. And I will also

548
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:31,359
just mention um setbacks. We have the
line of trees. I know there's a tree

549
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:36,559
preservation plan in place, but I think
that we would like to see uh some

550
00:57:33,839 --> 00:57:40,160
consideration for setbacks uh that would
preserve the trees and provide some

551
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:43,359
green space in between us and these
buildings that they're going to put in.

552
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:47,040
And that's really all I have to say.
Thank you.

553
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:51,240
» Thank you. Are there any questions for
the registrant on item 14?

554
00:57:52,480 --> 00:58:00,599
Seeing none, then we'll move on
to

555
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:12,799
item 59. Item 59 is a substitute
amending the 2026 Economic Development

556
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:17,280
Division operating budget by
transferring funds from other agency

557
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:21,839
budgets and authorizing intra
departmental transfers, approving

558
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:24,960
program materials, and authorizing the
economic development division to

559
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:30,640
administer a Williamson Street business
stabilization support program in

560
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:37,200
district 6. On item 59, we have one
registrant wishing to speak, Chip Cruz

561
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:40,680
of District 6 representing WMBA.
Do we have Chip?

562
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,640
» Chip, you should be able to unmute
yourself.

563
00:58:54,319 --> 00:58:58,480
» Hello, Mayor Sadia.
>> Go ahead.

564
00:58:56,799 --> 00:59:01,440
» Go ahead.
I'd like to thank you for the

565
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:06,880
opportunity to speak tonight. I am
speaking as the president of Womba right

566
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:14,000
now. Uh and I appreciate you giving us
this time to [clears throat] advocate

567
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:17,920
for the businesses in our district. Um
I'm just going to be real with

568
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:22,559
everybody. The businesses are in dire
need of your help. And it's because of

569
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:30,119
the actions that have been taken in
large part by the city um for over a

570
00:59:25,839 --> 00:59:30,119
month and a half. And

571
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:38,160
what I need to say right now is that
there are many businesses that are in

572
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:44,079
danger of a going out of business, b
losing employees, c not recovering

573
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:48,319
whatsoever, and people who work here, in
which case this

574
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:53,520
stretch of businesses, 30 businesses,
represent hundreds of of employees in

575
00:59:50,799 --> 01:00:01,200
our district. And right now we are
failing them as businesses, as a

576
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:06,720
community, as a city. And a large onus
of responsibility has fallen upon us as

577
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:12,799
a community to come together and
literally help everybody out when we

578
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:18,559
need it the most. Uh Womba on our
behalf, we have literally tried to clean

579
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:24,319
up these streets ourselves. We have with
a lot of help raised over $50,000 that

580
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:29,200
we were able to get out instantly. And
we came to the city looking for help to

581
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:34,960
help the citizens of our community. And
it went from $300,000 down to $100,000,

582
01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:39,359
which if you split it up in the 30s is
going to be about $3,000 a piece. And at

583
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:43,760
the end of the day, it's just not
enough. And and Mayor Satya, you and I

584
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:47,200
had a very good conversation. And we
talked about our fear of something if

585
01:00:46,319 --> 01:00:52,880
something something were to happen to
Cafe Kota. Hana Taylor, one of the only

586
01:00:50,319 --> 01:00:56,240
blackowned businesses in this city,
period, but one with the liquor license

587
01:00:54,640 --> 01:01:03,520
that he's in danger of going out of
business. Marcos Apparaka, also another

588
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:09,119
black male with a liquor license
struggling to survive. These 30

589
01:01:05,839 --> 01:01:13,359
businesses represent the most diverse
community of business owners and

590
01:01:10,799 --> 01:01:18,000
employee of any stretch of two blocks in
this city. And the fact that if I ask

591
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:22,799
anybody to defy that and tell me another
two blocks, they can't. That's

592
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:27,520
fundamentally a problem. And so I'm
coming here today. We are asking for

593
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:31,599
help because unless you've been in this
neighborhood, which many of you in that

594
01:01:29,359 --> 01:01:35,440
room have never been to this
neighborhood in the past month, I would

595
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:38,400
know I'm there every day.
>> You have about 20 seconds left. 20

596
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:42,160
seconds left.
>> That's great. Thank you. Because I'll

597
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:45,280
tell you what, when I go to these
businesses, when I talk to employees,

598
01:01:43,839 --> 01:01:48,640
when I talk to people on the streets,
they're angry, they're upset, and

599
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:54,079
they're scared, and they're looking for
help. And so I invite any of you to come

600
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:58,079
talk to me or come to our businesses
because we need it. But I will take you

601
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:01,200
on a tour and I will show you the pain
and the suffering

602
01:01:59,839 --> 01:02:06,000
» everybody in this community is going
through. Thank you.

603
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:10,079
» That's our last registrant
>> last registrant on item

604
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:15,880
» 59. Are there any questions for any
questions for the registrant?

605
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,880
» Oh, they might talk.

606
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:25,160
» Seeing none,
then we'll go on.

607
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:35,200
Our next item with registrants wishing
to speak is item 60, amending the 2026

608
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:38,720
adopted operating budget by transferring
funds from the contingent reserve to the

609
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:43,280
office of the independent monitor for
additional staffing and services costs

610
01:02:41,359 --> 01:02:47,359
and directing staff to provide a full
accounting of costs associated with the

611
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:53,760
city's critical incident response
between July 22nd, 2026 and September

612
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:59,760
8th, 2026. On item 60, our first
registrant wishing to speak is Avi

613
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:06,920
Ivatori of District 12 to be followed by
Rachel Ravinski to be followed by

614
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:06,920
Ameilia Royo Mau. Do we have Avi?

615
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:18,880
Doesn't look like [snorts]
we do.

616
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:27,240
Then do we have Rachel Roinski of
District 13 to be followed by Amelia

617
01:03:21,359 --> 01:03:27,240
Royo Mau to be followed by Jacob Lang.

618
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:38,480
Rachel, you should be able to speak.
>> Hello. Um, I'm speaking today in support

619
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:43,680
of using uh the 28,000 something
contingent reserve dollars of contingent

620
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:48,960
reserve funding to fund the Office of
the Independent Police Monitor. Um,

621
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:52,640
community members have been saying for
weeks now that the office of the

622
01:03:51,119 --> 01:03:58,000
independent police monitor needs to be
fully funded in order to not only

623
01:03:55,359 --> 01:04:05,920
properly investigate Corey Ruiz's death,
but all of the other

624
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:12,400
um, misconduct that MPD does on a weekly
basis. Um, I will say again that

625
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:19,520
previously this item that was put
forward by Alder Matthews and seconded

626
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:25,839
by Alder Glenn had a provision to um
fund the office with the amount

627
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:32,079
accounted for for how much was spent on
policing from July 22nd to September

628
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:37,680
8th. And from the finance committee
meeting meeting, I understand that

629
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:44,799
uh 2026 budget money must be used up in
2026. And so I would like to ask that

630
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:49,200
um money in the 2027 budget may be
allocated to the office of the

631
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:54,799
independent police monitor as well.
Thank you.

632
01:04:50,880 --> 01:05:00,720
» Thank you. Our next registrant is Amelia
Reicho Mau of Arena, Wisconsin to be

633
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:04,760
followed by Jacob Lang to be followed by
Liz Light. Do we have Amelia?

634
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:12,240
» You hear me?
>> Yes. Go ahead.

635
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:19,680
» Okay. Um, I want to thank uh, Vice
President uh, Carmela Glenn for posting

636
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:23,680
every day about the 177, which is now, I
don't know, 300 something

637
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:30,319
recommendations that were made to the
police department and to the city in

638
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:35,839
effort to avoid having uh, someone
killed again and officers and

639
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:44,079
communities and businesses and people
and individuals and families totally

640
01:05:38,799 --> 01:05:52,079
traumatized to avoid having massive loss
uh in confidence, to avoid traumatizing

641
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:59,520
children, to avoid um
massive lawsuits. I mean, this is an

642
01:05:54,880 --> 01:06:04,559
example of city attorney Michael Hass's
risk management plan. What you're

643
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:10,480
experiencing right now is just that
another committee to talk about deadly

644
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:16,319
force. I mean, I have a list of hundreds
of people who contributed to the 177

645
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:20,240
plus. If you weren't there, you had
every opportunity to be there and give

646
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:25,200
input, but now you got to have your
stamp all over it. And it's just like

647
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:33,119
people are dying.
So I'm asking you, you have an alder

648
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:39,440
who's leading very clearly on real risk
management, sustainable risk management.

649
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:46,319
That is Vice President Carmela Glenn.
Not only is she leading in this arena,

650
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:51,359
she has a background of criminal
justice. You've got a police civilian

651
01:06:49,039 --> 01:06:57,039
oversight board. You have an office of
the independent monitor that you are

652
01:06:53,599 --> 01:07:01,839
paying for. We all are. They are
experts.

653
01:06:58,799 --> 01:07:07,280
Hundreds of people and organizations
contributed to the 300 plus

654
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:13,760
recommendations. The only problem right
now is lack of political will, lack of

655
01:07:10,799 --> 01:07:21,200
political spine.
Vengeance. It's literally like some

656
01:07:17,839 --> 01:07:27,520
adult version. Just call it mean women
just seriously going after people as

657
01:07:24,799 --> 01:07:33,440
retaliation and making the whole city
pay for it.

658
01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:37,520
Can we please stop? People are dying and
being traumatized. You heard about all

659
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:38,960
the businesses that could shut down. Is
this

660
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:45,200
» about 30 seconds left?
>> About 30 seconds.

661
01:07:40,799 --> 01:07:50,559
Please support the tiny amount of
contingency funds that are supposed to

662
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:55,119
be used for emergencies being shifted to
the office of the independent monitor.

663
01:07:53,039 --> 01:08:02,480
All of this is being recorded. It is a
legacy that will follow everyone around

664
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:08,640
like a shadow. Please stop obstructing
and please

665
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:14,160
shift funds in uh examining how much
this whole debacle has cost thus far.

666
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:19,839
» Thank you. That's your time. Our next
registrant is Jacob Lang of District 12

667
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:24,839
to be followed by Liz Light to be
followed by Steve Verberg. Do we have

668
01:08:21,839 --> 01:08:24,839
Jacob?

669
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:36,719
Doesn't look like we have Jacob in the
room.

670
01:08:34,480 --> 01:08:41,600
» I don't see Jacob online. Mayor,
>> thank you. Our next registrant is Liz

671
01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:45,520
Light of District 12 to be followed by
Steve Verberg to be followed by Devin

672
01:08:43,440 --> 01:08:50,480
Snyder.
>> Excellent. There you go.

673
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:53,359
» Is this working?
>> Yes.

674
01:08:50,799 --> 01:08:58,400
» Amazing. Thank you.
Okay. Um, my name is Liz Light and I

675
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:02,719
live and work in district 12 on the
north side of Madison. I speak today in

676
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:06,960
support of agenda item 60, Alder
Matthews resolution to transfer the

677
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:11,199
$28,500
from the contingency reserve fund to the

678
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:14,640
office of the independent monitor and to
direct staff to provide a full account

679
01:09:12,799 --> 01:09:20,480
of costs associated with the city's
critical incident response between July

680
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:24,560
22nd and today. Personally, when I
organize, gather and protest with my

681
01:09:22,719 --> 01:09:28,880
community, I believe we are
communicating something to our fellow

682
01:09:26,799 --> 01:09:34,000
community members and to the people who
have the power to move the needle. You

683
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:40,319
all, we continue to tell you how to help
us. Yes, we keep us safe and you can

684
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:45,600
help keep all of us safe by supporting
independent oversight of MPD.

685
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:50,319
Some of you continue to respond to this
request by vilifying protesters,

686
01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:55,520
repeatedly telling us what you cannot
do, and then directing us to navigate

687
01:09:52,719 --> 01:09:59,199
what often feel like toothless channels.
And these channels feel toothless

688
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:04,640
because these are the channels you
control. And so for you and so far, you

689
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:09,040
have been unwilling to tell us what you
can do in many cases and what you're

690
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:12,960
willing to do.
I keep thinking about the ask from the

691
01:10:10,719 --> 01:10:17,600
city leadership to respect the family in
response to the protest and community

692
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:22,400
organizing efforts. And I wonder how are
you all respecting Corey Ruiz's family?

693
01:10:20,239 --> 01:10:27,520
Is it respectful to Corey Ruiz and his
family to sick cops on people working to

694
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:32,560
keep his case alive and tended to? Is it
respectful to Corey Ruiz and his family

695
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:37,440
to pay MPD to surveil the site where
they executed him? Is it respectful to

696
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:41,520
Corey Ruiz and his family to debase the
oversight body that is their pathway to

697
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:46,239
justice?
I continue to wonder about the next

698
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:50,880
family. If members of this body continue
to justify state violence, minimize

699
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:54,640
their own legitimate power, and blame
unrest on the community seeking

700
01:10:52,719 --> 01:10:59,360
accountability, you are all but
guaranteeing there will be a next

701
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:02,719
family. Your votes, your attitudes
towards your constituents, and your

702
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:07,360
distortions of what is actually
happening on the ground are all being

703
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:12,400
noted. Justice for Tony Robinson,
justice for Richard Lee Johnson, and

704
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:17,920
justice for Corey Ruiz. Thank you. Thank
you. Our next registrant is [applause]

705
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:22,960
I'm going to ask folks in the gallery
please not to applaud snapping. I'll let

706
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:26,480
you get away with, but we need to keep
going because there's a lot of people

707
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:31,120
that want to talk tonight. Our next
registrant is Steve Verberg of Wendy

708
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:36,199
Lane to be followed by Devin Snyder to
be followed by Adrien Mccclure. Do we

709
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,199
have Steve?

710
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:42,800
Doesn't look like we have Steve in the
room.

711
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:47,520
» Steve is not online. Mayor,
>> thank you. Then our next registrant is

712
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:52,000
Devin Snyder of District 4 to be
followed by Adrien Mccclure to be

713
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:55,679
followed by Miriam Hassan. Do we have
Devon

714
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:59,760
» here? Can you guys hear?
>> Yes. Go ahead.

715
01:11:57,440 --> 01:12:03,280
» All right. Good evening, President,
members of the common council, and

716
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:07,280
members of our community. My name is
Devin Snyder, and I'm proud to serve on

717
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:12,159
the police civilian oversight board.
Yet, I find myself here once again

718
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:16,080
advocating for adequate funding for the
Office of Independent Monitor.

719
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:20,800
Independent police oversight is not
optional. It is essential to building

720
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:26,400
public trust, ensuring accountability,
and promoting transparency. The PCOB and

721
01:12:24,159 --> 01:12:30,960
the OIM were recreated because our
community recognized that accountability

722
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:38,199
matters and that residents deserve
confidence that policing is conducting

723
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:38,199
fairly and partially and with integrity.

724
01:12:38,480 --> 01:12:44,800
Today, however, the OIM is operating
with a debilitating shortage of

725
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:49,600
resources while facing extraordinary
demands. We cannot expect effective

726
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:52,640
oversight without providing the personal
and funding necessary to perform that

727
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:58,400
work.
That is why I strongly support Elder

728
01:12:54,719 --> 01:13:03,600
Matthews resolution to transfer 28,500
from the contingency reserve fund to the

729
01:13:00,719 --> 01:13:07,840
OIN. This funding is necessary to
address urgent staffing and service

730
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:11,199
needs and to ensure the office can
continue carrying out its

731
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:16,000
responsibilities.
I also urge the council to direct staff

732
01:13:14,159 --> 01:13:20,719
to provide a full accounting of all
costs associated with the city's

733
01:13:18,239 --> 01:13:27,360
critical incident response between July
22nd, 2026 and September 8th, 2026.

734
01:13:25,199 --> 01:13:31,679
Transparency must remain a guiding
principle, especially when public

735
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:35,840
resources are involved.
Finally, and most importantly, I urge

736
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:40,960
you to fully fund the Office of
Independent Monitor in the 2027 budget.

737
01:13:39,199 --> 01:13:45,760
Earth is about more than dollars and
cents. It is about whether we are

738
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:50,000
willing to invest in an accountability,
transparency, and public trust. The

739
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:54,320
residents of this city have made it
clear that independent oversight

740
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:59,040
matters. Now, it is time for us to
demonstrate that commitment through

741
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:03,440
action. I re I respectfully ask you to
support this resolution and ensure

742
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:07,840
transparency regarding recent
expenditures and provide full funding

743
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:11,360
the office of independent monitoring
2027.

744
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:16,400
Thank you for your time, consideration,
and service to our community.

745
01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:22,159
» Thank you. Our next registrant is Adrien
McCclure of District 2 to be followed by

746
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:26,040
Miriam Hassan to be followed by T.
Banks. Do we have Adrien?

747
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,920
I just want to
look

748
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:40,961
» very important
>> breaking up on us

749
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:40,961
» connection is bad but I will [snorts]

750
01:14:46,159 --> 01:14:58,400
important my social life
[snorts] and celebrations

751
01:14:54,159 --> 01:15:02,640
of of violence especially know
that

752
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:06,880
we need
>> Adrian we're getting about half of every

753
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:09,760
word it we can't understand what you're
saying

754
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,760
» sorry
with

755
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:25,280
you all that the people are watching in
house

756
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:28,719
Okay,
>> Adrian, I'm going to suggest that we

757
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:35,199
come back to you and you see if you can
get to a better connection. Um, I'll

758
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:40,480
» keep you on the list and come back.
>> So, let's go then to Miriam Hassan of

759
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:44,840
District 15 to be followed by T. Banks
to be followed by Autumn Jarcus.

760
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:54,080
I think [snorts] my foot's asleep. Um,
I'm Miriam Hassan. I'm a resident of

761
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:59,360
Madison. Um, I don't know my district
number, but I'm in Dina Nina's district.

762
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:05,040
Um, I'm writing to I'm actually here
speaking to you to ask for your support

763
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:09,600
for the transfer of the 28 grand uh
emergency funds to bring up staffing at

764
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:14,080
the office of the independent monitor
for the rest of the year. Um, this is an

765
01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:18,400
emergency stop gap measure to get
through the rest of this extraordinary

766
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:21,440
time. Um, please think about the people
who have just learned about the

767
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:26,159
monitor's office and have submitted
complaints about MPD. Uh, those

768
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:31,280
residents put their trust in the office
to look at their complaints, do factf

769
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:35,760
finding, identify trends, assess them to
identify policy recommendations, and

770
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:39,360
report on them so that the findings can
be part of the public record. That's a

771
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:45,280
really important step towards
accountability. That trust was earned.

772
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:49,520
Uh, please do not betray it. It's
obvious from the tension and angst

773
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:54,640
around the monitor that there are some
values or personality conflicts going

774
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:59,040
on. Um, and I'd like to just con uh put
forward for your consideration that um

775
01:16:57,199 --> 01:17:03,520
their duties require a somewhat
adversarial posture and maybe that rubs

776
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:08,080
people the wrong way. Um, but in any
case, it looks to me like the office is

777
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:12,800
under the microscope with very scant
resources. Um, and in 2027, I'd love to

778
01:17:11,199 --> 01:17:19,120
see this office be able to do their best
work with truly adequate resources.

779
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:23,760
Um, finally, um, I'm wondering
I'm wondering, um, if there's anywhere I

780
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:28,560
can see what the city's expenditures to
date, um, were associated with the

781
01:17:25,679 --> 01:17:32,400
memorial for Corey Ruiz. Um, I believe
the mayor said it was estimated to cost

782
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:36,080
hundreds of thousands of dollars in a
news interview. So, I'm very curious

783
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:40,320
about the line item costs and how the
city found those funds, if there was a

784
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:44,480
proposal to spend contingent reserve
funds or what. Um, I'm guessing some

785
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:48,640
overtime was paid out to some city
workers and it seems to me like we get

786
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:55,199
more for our dollar uh bringing up a
part-time position to 1.0 FTE uh than by

787
01:17:52,719 --> 01:17:59,600
paying overtime wages, other things
being equal, which of course they

788
01:17:56,719 --> 01:18:03,120
aren't. Uh it seems to me like the 28
grand won't make much difference in

789
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:07,840
whether the city can respond at the same
level for the next crisis, especially

790
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:13,520
when you factor in what the city will
have to pay out to settle lawsuits um if

791
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:18,239
MPD continues to carry on with impunity.
Um please consider the complaintants and

792
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:24,640
I thank you for listening.
>> Thank you. Our next registrant is T.

793
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:30,880
banks of district 14 and then we'll
circle back and see if we have any of

794
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:37,640
the folks that we missed. Avi Evore,
Jacob Lang, Steve Verberg, or Adrien

795
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:37,640
Mccclure. Do we have T Banks?

796
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,159
Go ahead.

797
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:50,800
banks
did just 14 and

798
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:57,719
I support
to funding the

799
01:18:54,719 --> 01:18:57,719
dollar

800
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:05,280
office
for addition

801
01:19:02,159 --> 01:19:09,040
and service
debilitating

802
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:13,120
funds in the face of an emergency
>> t you're also really breaking up on us.

803
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:16,760
I don't know if you can move to some
place with better signal

804
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:28,560
» a little bit better.
>> Oh, hold on just a minute. Can you pause

805
01:19:25,440 --> 01:19:32,239
the timer, please?
>> Could you mayor, could you ask an aler

806
01:19:30,159 --> 01:19:36,640
to just try Could you ask an aler to try
speaking who's online to see if it's us

807
01:19:34,239 --> 01:19:41,199
and not these speakers? Well,
considering that some of the speakers

808
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:43,440
have been able to be heard,
>> right? Just because we had the

809
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:47,679
disruption earlier where the Zoom
dropped and all and Alder Ver has been

810
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:52,320
frozen on the screen. It's just a just a
suggestion.

811
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:56,800
» Um, can can we have one of the alders
who's online? Trust me,

812
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:59,280
» I can talk. Can you hear me? Okay.
>> Yeah.

813
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:04,880
» Here on a connection. Okay.
>> Thank you, Alder Tishler.

814
01:20:01,440 --> 01:20:11,880
All right. Let's um try again for te to
see if we can hear you.

815
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,880
» Okay. Can you hear him?

816
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:18,290
» No, I think you're still breaking up.
[snorts]

817
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,800
» Okay, here.
>> That's a little better.

818
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:32,045
Um,
and I actually

819
01:20:30,025 --> 01:20:32,045
[clears throat]

820
01:20:35,679 --> 01:20:38,679
get

821
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:46,560
» Yeah, I'm sorry. You're You're really
breaking up on us. I'm going to put you

822
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:51,760
again to try again after Adrian and see
if maybe you can um find a better signal

823
01:20:50,719 --> 01:20:55,040
before then.
>> Thank you.

824
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:59,520
» Sorry.
All right. So then let's circle back. Do

825
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:05,920
we and I'll ask our tech staff. Oh,
excuse me, Alder Jang. Um, if after

826
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:10,800
circling back once or more than once,
um, if we can't hear what people have to

827
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:15,760
say, I would suggest maybe if they could
email us their comments. Yes, thank you,

828
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:20,800
Alder. It's a good point. We do ask that
if anybody is either not present when

829
01:21:18,239 --> 01:21:26,320
their name is called or can't be heard
for some reason that you send an alder

830
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:32,320
to excuse me an email to all alders at
city ofmadison.com with your comments so

831
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:37,920
the council can read them. Um and I
think most alders if not all um have

832
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:43,280
their laptops and can read their emails
in real time. Um,

833
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:51,480
all right. So then circling back, do we
have Aviator,

834
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:51,480
Jacob Lang, or Steve Verberg?

835
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:57,360
» Mayor, I don't see them in attendance
online.

836
01:21:55,760 --> 01:22:01,760
» Okay, thank you very much. And then
let's try again with Adrien Mccclure.

837
01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:05,920
» Adrien
>> of District 2.

838
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:10,800
» Okay, can you hear me this time?
>> Oh, that's so much better.

839
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:15,120
» Okay. Yes. Well, I wanted to to speak in
support of moving funding to the office

840
01:22:12,639 --> 01:22:18,239
of independent monitor. Uh the
Williamson Street area is very important

841
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:21,760
to me. A lot of things that are
important to my social life is there.

842
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:25,520
It's been for me and I think for many
other people a place of comfort and

843
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:28,719
refuge. So, it was disturbing to see it
become a place of violence, especially

844
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:34,880
knowing that there was another police
shooting of a young black man not very

845
01:22:30,639 --> 01:22:38,080
long ago. And uh that we I want to and
many other people want to find ways to

846
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:42,239
keep this from happening. We're all
grieving over this and some kind of

847
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:45,760
action needs to be taken. And I'd like
to remind you all that the people of

848
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:49,360
Madison are watching you and will
remember how you respond to this moment.

849
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:57,080
That's all.
>> Thank you. All right, let's try again

850
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:57,080
for T. Banks of District 14.

851
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:11,679
» It's a little better. Let's try it.
Okay. Um, my name is T

852
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:14,679
district
support

853
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:24,800
the reserve.
>> I'm I'm sorry. The the council's shaking

854
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:29,120
their heads at me. They can't hear you
sufficiently.

855
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:34,719
Um, but that did seem a little better.
So, let's try a few more registrants and

856
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:40,000
um I'll circle back again.
All right. So, let's try then for Autumn

857
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:47,800
Jarcus of District 6 to be followed by
Ariel Habber Faucet to be followed by

858
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:47,800
Tessa Jade Price. Do we have Autumn?

859
01:23:51,040 --> 01:24:00,520
Doesn't look like Autumn's in the room.
Uh, Autumn, you should be able to unmute

860
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,520
yourself.

861
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:07,360
You should have a pro. There you go.
Okay, you can hear me?

862
01:24:06,159 --> 01:24:12,239
» Yes, please go ahead.
>> Okay.

863
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:21,280
» Uh, so my name is Autumn Yotsis. Um, I
am speaking in support of item 60. Um,

864
01:24:18,159 --> 01:24:25,760
I spoke a lot last meeting. Um, if
anyone might remember, um, but just

865
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:32,239
echoing what I've heard, uh, many people
say today, um,

866
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:40,159
this action item has been defanged.
there was uh more money requested for

867
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:45,840
this, but you've put it down at 28,000.
Um like I heard someone speak a few

868
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:52,960
speakers ago, um this is really a stop
gap. Um, I just wanted to say that I

869
01:24:50,239 --> 01:24:59,280
feel strongly that police oversight
needs to be um,

870
01:24:56,080 --> 01:25:04,880
a actual oversight, well staffed um,
regardless of who is actually in the

871
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:10,880
office and the position. The office
itself should be staffed to counteract a

872
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:15,600
police budget that has an really fat fat
budget. Um, I think that it's pretty

873
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:21,440
cheesy that this is coming from the
emergency city emergency funds. Um, in a

874
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:27,760
time when everybody is hurting
financially, um, maybe including city

875
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:31,280
workers, um, including other areas that
that could be addressed. I think it's

876
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:36,880
ridiculous that this money didn't come
from our police budget. Um, I personally

877
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:44,560
want police oversight because I've
witnessed too much harassment uh from

878
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:49,360
police to civilians. Um, I think that
that's all I just want to say. I seed my

879
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:55,440
time.
>> Thank you. Our next registrant is Ariel

880
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:59,440
Haber Faucet of District 6 to be
followed by Tessa Jade Price to be

881
01:25:57,440 --> 01:26:02,440
followed by Tara Wood Taylor. Do we have
Ariel?

882
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:14,239
Okay. Uh, it doesn't look like we have
Ariel in the room.

883
01:26:12,639 --> 01:26:19,840
» Ariel's not online. Mayor,
>> thank you. So then, uh, Tessa Jade Price

884
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:24,320
of District 12 to be followed by Tara
Wood Taylor

885
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:27,400
to be followed by Gregory Galiac. Do we
have Tessa?

886
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:32,560
» Sure do. Can you hear me?
>> Yes. Go ahead.

887
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:37,760
Okay, cool. Um, I'm here to urge you all
to support agenda item number 60 to fund

888
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:43,280
the OIM 28.5,000
uh 28.5K

889
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:47,199
of over 1.5 million reported in the 2026
contingency fund from the finance

890
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:51,679
committee. I would also like to thank VP
Glenn Alder Matthews and Monitor Glass

891
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:56,239
for doing your jobs and fighting for the
people. Um, the city of Madison has the

892
01:26:53,840 --> 01:27:00,800
blood of Cory Ruiz on its hands. The
least you can do is to fund the

893
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:03,760
accountability process.
We cannot close our eyes to the

894
01:27:02,159 --> 01:27:07,760
disparities if we do not have someone
analyzing the data demonstrating the

895
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:14,480
disparities. We can't fix them. For
instance, uh this is a lovely little law

896
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:22,400
statute whatever uh obtained from the
data analyst. Um it's 62.09

897
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:26,880
parentheses 13A. And this says the chief
of police, it's not written in there,

898
01:27:24,159 --> 01:27:31,920
but it's by context. shall obey all
lawful written orders of the mayor or

899
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:35,679
common counsel. And I would urge you uh
both the mayor or and or the common

900
01:27:33,679 --> 01:27:40,480
council to direct the chief of police to
suspend Keel Badinger Peterson

901
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:43,679
indefinitely. That is a power that you
appear to have and that seems like

902
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:47,360
something that you should be doing. Um,
I watched the violent response to the

903
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:53,120
civil disobedience by police raiding the
memorial and it was brutal and it was

904
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:58,320
nasty and it was um, frankly, you
declared war on a peaceful protest and

905
01:27:55,920 --> 01:28:02,480
the people will never forget that and
um, to hear the mayor clutching her

906
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:07,280
pearls at curse words is frankly
ridiculous. Um, I debated whether or not

907
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:13,679
to read you George Carlin's seven words
you can't see on TV, but I'll spare you

908
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:18,480
the um, the Thanks.
Thank you. Our next registrant is Tara

909
01:28:16,159 --> 01:28:22,400
Wood Taylor of district 12 to be
followed by Gregory Gambia to be

910
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:25,400
followed by Sadika Dishaser. Do we have
Tara?

911
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:32,440
Doesn't look like Tara's in the room.

912
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:41,520
Ah, Tara, you should be able to unmute.
Hello. Yes, I was just unmuted. Thank

913
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:48,480
you. Hello. Uh, my name is Tara Wood
Taylor and I am from Madison. I actually

914
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:55,360
live in your district, mayor. I am
incredibly disappointed in all of our

915
01:28:52,159 --> 01:29:02,639
protectors of our Madison killer cops.
Our Madison alers voted no to uh the

916
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:08,080
contingency funds to fund the office of
the independent monitor. I am looking at

917
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:14,480
you. Sabrina Madison, Shaun O'Brien, Tag
Evers, Bandry Lella, Michael Vervier,

918
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:19,840
and Regina Vitav. Apologies if I've
gotten any of your names wrong. People

919
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:28,000
mispronounced my name my entire life.
Corey's family still has no justice. You

920
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:34,960
have yet a reminder. You have yet to
arrest the officer, Kil Peterson, who

921
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:40,560
completely executed a man in broad
daylight. We all know what we saw.

922
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:45,600
Refusing to fund your police
accountability

923
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:52,800
is protecting your cops, your killer
cops. I support Alder Matthews and

924
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:59,040
Glenn's resolution to transfer only
$28,500

925
01:29:55,120 --> 01:30:03,199
which is mere pennies [snorts] from the
100 whatever what was it or a million

926
01:30:01,679 --> 01:30:07,120
dollar of police force that was
unnecessary that we all know could go to

927
01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:11,199
our beautiful Madison parks and
protecting our lakes and our ismas

928
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:16,880
that's just gorgeous that we live on but
instead you have chosen to fund police

929
01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:22,880
who kill our citizens. I don't feel safe
when I see an officer. But what I did do

930
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:30,080
is I felt safe for the two weeks that we
had a memorial for Corey. And I had no

931
01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:34,159
problems. I left my purse out. I was
able to leave my personal belongings

932
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:38,000
out. I don't know about any of y'all.
Maybe when you go to a coffee shop, you

933
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:42,960
can do that. But when I was there for
two weeks, I felt safe. I do not feel

934
01:30:40,639 --> 01:30:48,320
safe with our Madison police. I do not
feel safe knowing there is still

935
01:30:45,679 --> 01:30:53,120
Peterson out there being able to go on a
nice vacation wherever he is and the

936
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:58,159
rest of those officers. So I implore you
implore you please direct the staff to

937
01:30:55,440 --> 01:31:04,480
provide a coal a full accounting cost
because we need it. This is critical and

938
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:11,360
the longer you take the more this fire
is going to continue to get bigger. Your

939
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:16,400
citizens are waiting 30 seconds. They
are waiting on you. We are waiting on

940
01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:24,480
you to have some accountability.
Please stop with refusing to have any

941
01:31:21,679 --> 01:31:29,600
accountability. Thank you for your time
and justice for Corey and justice for

942
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:33,440
every other single person who has ever
been brutally murdered by a police

943
01:31:31,679 --> 01:31:38,400
officer.
>> Thank you folks. You really can't

944
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:44,400
because we need to keep moving through.
Snaps are okay. Our next registrant is

945
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:49,199
Gregory Glmbiac of Second Street to be
followed by Sadika Deaser to be followed

946
01:31:46,480 --> 01:31:52,880
by Alexander Wilburn. Greg
>> Monitor Glass and I myself

947
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:56,880
» Go ahead.
>> What's that?

948
01:31:54,239 --> 01:32:00,159
» Ah, Monitor Glass and I myself are being
defamed with an avalanche of falsehoods.

949
01:31:58,639 --> 01:32:03,040
I would like to start with Alder Ever's
false statements attacking me at the

950
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:06,239
finance committee. He referenced two
Facebook posts I made. He said of the

951
01:32:04,719 --> 01:32:09,760
first that I posted a picture of a white
police officer holding a gun to the head

952
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:12,719
of a black resident. Except the reality
is there were no residents or civilians

953
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:16,000
in the picture. It's promotional picture
from a film and all the figures in the

954
01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:19,440
picture are police officers and clearly
identifiable as police officers in

955
01:32:17,440 --> 01:32:22,560
police uniforms. In the post I was
writing about MPD being completely out

956
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:25,679
of compliance with ordinance, acting
lawlessly but not providing records to

957
01:32:24,159 --> 01:32:29,679
us even aside from records from the
corer's case referencing a second

958
01:32:27,679 --> 01:32:33,600
Facebook post of mine. Ever said that
things quote have not improved even end

959
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,719
quote even after withdrawal of the
ordinance amendments because according

960
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:40,000
to Evers I post a criticism of the
sponsoring alders after that point but

961
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:45,440
the reference post was actually made on
July 26 before the amendments have been

962
01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:48,880
withdrawn. Evers also said that I quote
said it was a pernicious attempt in

963
01:32:47,199 --> 01:32:52,639
continuing with tags statement and
pernitious I don't need to tell you

964
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:55,920
means evil intent describing evil intent
of the alders who are trying to do this

965
01:32:54,159 --> 01:32:59,440
end quote. Alder ever needs a
dictionary. Pernicious actually means

966
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:02,560
harmful. And I actually wrote, quote,
"This is a post about those pernicious

967
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:05,440
ordinance amendments." I didn't describe
evil intent to alers, and I didn't use

968
01:33:04,159 --> 01:33:09,360
the word pernicious with respect to
alders. I'm not going to say that Alder

969
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:13,440
Evers lied about me because the lie
requires intent to deceive. Rather, I

970
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:16,639
believe that he was unfortunately so
consumed with personal animosity, so

971
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:19,920
biased and full of self-righteous ego
that he couldn't tell fact from fictions

972
01:33:18,239 --> 01:33:23,280
that his mind concocted it. [snorts] I
also wish to speak about the latest memo

973
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:26,239
from Attorney Hos. Reading the memo is
like reading a set of allegations from

974
01:33:24,480 --> 01:33:29,440
one of Trump's DOJ prosecutors without
having any other information. Uses a

975
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:32,800
combination of misrepresentation, some
outright false, distorted one-sided

976
01:33:31,199 --> 01:33:36,880
claims, verbiage written to lead people
to believe something untrue without

977
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:40,880
technically making a false claim, etc.
For example, H states, quote, the lack

978
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:44,880
of time a timely notice being published
or or regarding issues um related to

979
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:48,400
close session discussion or other
compliance with open meeting law. He

980
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:51,679
doesn't, for example, actually say the
PCB violated timely notice requirements

981
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:55,679
of open meeting law because no such
violation occurred. You're falsely led

982
01:33:53,600 --> 01:34:00,639
to think that such a violation occurred.
The one recent violation opening law

983
01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:04,639
that I am aware of is at the August 5 um
executive subcommittee meeting where at

984
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:09,120
HOS's behest the first hour of a closed
session noticed as quote independent

985
01:34:06,719 --> 01:34:12,560
monitor evaluation and quote was instead
spent talking about city procedures for

986
01:34:10,719 --> 01:34:16,400
contracting attorneys or consultants.
It's the usual pattern of the rules are

987
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:20,159
for thee and not for me. Ha showed no
compunction about having the PCB violate

988
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:23,199
open meeting law under his lead when he
wanted to instruct and lobby the PCB

989
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:25,199
outside the public eye.
>> You have about 30 seconds left.

990
01:34:24,719 --> 01:34:27,760
» What's that?
>> You have about 30 seconds left.

991
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:32,480
» I I'd like the speaking time to go
through through the remainder of the

992
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:35,440
items, but I I wish to note a slimming
of fraudulent complaint that was filed

993
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:38,480
against myself a month ago. It was a
retaliatory complaint. It was fabricated

994
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:41,440
from whole cloth. Falsely accused me of
stalking, harassment, etc. There are

995
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:44,320
three witnesses, video evidence, and
written records conclusively showing

996
01:34:42,719 --> 01:34:47,120
that the complainant lied and made up
pretty much everything in the complaint.

997
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:50,159
For closing out the investigation, Mika
has been waiting on one of the witness

998
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:52,960
statements, but in Hass is right if
you're falsely led to believe that

999
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:55,920
there's an ongoing issue that Mika did
something wrong and not completing the

1000
01:34:54,239 --> 01:34:58,800
investigation yet. I'll conclude with a
quote in a time of universal deceit

1001
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:00,960
telling the truth of the revolutionary
act.

1002
01:34:59,199 --> 01:35:05,920
» Thank you.
We're going to circle back to T Banks

1003
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:10,480
and see if we can get them uh from
district 14

1004
01:35:08,159 --> 01:35:15,719
to be followed by Sadik Deser to be
followed by Alexander Wilburn T.

1005
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:21,760
» Hello. Can you hear me now?
>> Oh my god. Yes, that's so much better.

1006
01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:29,440
Thank you.
>> Thank you. My name is T. Banks and I am

1007
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:35,520
a resident of district 14 and I support
Alder Matthews resolution to transfer

1008
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:40,560
funding of the $28,500
from the contingency reserve fund to the

1009
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:45,840
office of the independent monitor for
additional staffing and service cost is

1010
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:50,719
they are operating with debilitating
shortage in funds in the face of an

1011
01:35:48,480 --> 01:35:57,199
emergency.
an emergency that you all caused.

1012
01:35:54,000 --> 01:36:03,199
How much in overtime was paid that was
your fault for handling this crisis

1013
01:36:00,159 --> 01:36:08,719
dangerously and violently? How much are
businesses and staples to our community,

1014
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:12,560
how much are they suffering due to your
negligence and the violence that you let

1015
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:19,040
occur?
Arrest that killer cop killer kill

1016
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:24,800
Peterson. He needs to be in jail. He
needs to be accountable

1017
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:29,760
for killing Corey Ruiz. The least that
you could do is give these pennies so

1018
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:36,239
people could that so that people that
are actually brave enough to hold the

1019
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:41,520
cops accountable cuz you won't like the
office of the independent monitor have

1020
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:46,159
more funds. The least that you could do
for having killer cops occupy our

1021
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:51,040
streets is for the staff to provide a
full accounting of cost associated with

1022
01:36:48,719 --> 01:36:57,600
the city's critical incident response
between July 22nd, 2026 and September

1023
01:36:54,320 --> 01:37:01,679
8th, 2026. Because I bet those hundreds
of thousands of dollars could go to the

1024
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:06,639
office of the independent monitor. I bet
that they could fund the car's unit 247

1025
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:11,600
and make them have their own number. I
bet all that money that the city has had

1026
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:16,000
to pay out to the past victims of police
brutality could fund the true

1027
01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:21,679
accountability and residents of Madison
to intervene instead of armed police.

1028
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:29,119
Fully fund the office of independent
monitor for the 2027 budget. That's the

1029
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:32,880
least you can do. I yield my time.
>> Thank you and thanks for your

1030
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:38,000
persistence. Our next registrant is
Sadika Deser of District 17 to be

1031
01:37:35,679 --> 01:37:42,960
followed by Alexander Wilburn to be
followed by Grace Mckowski. Do we have

1032
01:37:40,639 --> 01:37:45,440
Sadika?
>> Yes.

1033
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:51,520
» Go ahead.
>> Uh good evening, mayor, elders, and

1034
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:56,960
fellow community members. Uh item 60 we
should obviously fund. Um since before

1035
01:37:55,199 --> 01:38:01,520
the murder of Cory Ruiz, I've asked for
oversight from the city of Madison and

1036
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:07,360
boards and council.
um that lead our municipality. Sadly, if

1037
01:38:04,719 --> 01:38:12,400
this is the best we can offer, we must
multiply and renew our efforts to

1038
01:38:09,199 --> 01:38:17,600
address critical issues. Um currently,
the community has broken trust, and lots

1039
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:22,159
of harm has happened. Currently, mayor,
you have not held account for how you've

1040
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:27,760
moved. You have not held account for
your anti-democratic processes such as

1041
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:31,600
not informing any of the alders about
what you were going to do proceeding to

1042
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:37,360
sign the city up for what is likely to
be millions just based on the past

1043
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:43,119
patterns of spending in followup to this
police response. What is likely to be

1044
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:50,400
millions in the civil payout? While we
are unlikely to hold the killer cop to

1045
01:38:46,159 --> 01:38:54,400
account in a excuse me in a excuse me
the legally we should hold them to

1046
01:38:52,719 --> 01:38:59,040
account and will hold them to account
civily. You will end up paying as you

1047
01:38:56,480 --> 01:39:04,639
have in the past and we will continue to
pay if we don't address these harms that

1048
01:39:01,440 --> 01:39:08,639
are happening in our community. Um the
police need oversight. An example I have

1049
01:39:06,719 --> 01:39:13,199
from personal experience is working with
the city in a partnership at the Macaba

1050
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:17,199
Gardens campground, the Madison Street
Medicine Dairy Drive project. I'm not

1051
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:21,760
speaking on behalf of Madison Street
Medicine, no longer work with them. The

1052
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:24,960
point that I'm getting at here is that
when we asked for accountability from

1053
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:30,080
the police in incidents that happened on
site, we were told by the city in

1054
01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:33,440
meetings with Jim O'Keefe that everyone
would be held to account, the police,

1055
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:37,760
the operators, everybody had actions
that they needed to be accountable for.

1056
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:41,600
Yet, when looking at the police reports
through a Freedom of Information Act, it

1057
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:45,360
was clear that he assured the police
that we would be the ones talked to. So

1058
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:48,239
if this is the lack of accountability
that we receive in a low stakes

1059
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:51,760
community partnership, what level of
accountability can we expect when the

1060
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:56,560
stakes are lethal? This failure of
accountability is so glaring that when

1061
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:59,840
the city brought in people to advise
them as far as their independent board,

1062
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:03,679
excuse me, the office of the independent
monitor went, it was pretty much

1063
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:06,560
advised, but the city needs mediation.
I've heard alders continue to like

1064
01:40:05,199 --> 01:40:10,239
hammer the office of the independent
monitor on that like it's all their

1065
01:40:08,239 --> 01:40:14,480
problem. Mediation takes two parties.
I'm hearing a lot of alders who need to

1066
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:19,280
own their responses and take some
accountability in that mediation.

1067
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:24,320
» You figure out and lead set of an
example and how we should move as a

1068
01:40:22,239 --> 01:40:29,360
community. You are in positions of
leadership and you can't figure out a

1069
01:40:26,560 --> 01:40:34,400
mediation. That's a damn shame. We've
now had 60 people registered to support

1070
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:38,719
this funding measure and that was in the
finance meeting.

1071
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:43,840
The committee unanimously voted to deny
it. Where is the democracy? Where is the

1072
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:47,840
representation of the people? This city
is fiscally irresponsible. Mayor, you

1073
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:51,679
should resign. We're going to spend
billions of dollars on retroactive

1074
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:57,280
police. Refuse a baseline for
accountability.

1075
01:40:53,360 --> 01:41:01,840
» Our next registrant is Alexander Wilburn
of Madison.

1076
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:07,239
Uh to be followed by Grace Mckowski to
be followed by Barbie Jackson. Do we

1077
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:07,239
have Alexandra?

1078
01:41:12,239 --> 01:41:17,520
Doesn't look like we have Alexandra in
the room.

1079
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:22,159
» I don't see Alexander online. Mayor,
>> thank you. Then our next registrant is

1080
01:41:19,679 --> 01:41:27,199
Grace Mckowski of District 13 to be
followed by Barbie Jackson to be

1081
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:30,199
followed by Kayla Riley. Do we have
Grace?

1082
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:37,480
Doesn't look like we have Grace in the
room.

1083
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:49,480
And I assume
>> Grace, you should be able to unmute

1084
01:41:46,480 --> 01:41:49,480
yourself.

1085
01:41:54,320 --> 01:42:00,119
You should have a prompt to unmute
yourself. It might be hidden under a

1086
01:41:57,119 --> 01:42:00,119
window.

1087
01:42:04,159 --> 01:42:08,440
Uh, it's the other Grace

1088
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:19,960
Tech staff. Can you There you go. Now
you should be able to unmute yourself.

1089
01:42:20,239 --> 01:42:26,400
» Hello. Uh, my name is Grace McClesy and
I Can you hear me first of all?

1090
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:31,760
» Yes.
>> Okay. Um, and I am a resident of

1091
01:42:28,880 --> 01:42:38,560
district 13. I am speaking in support of
agenda item number 60. Um, I would like

1092
01:42:35,440 --> 01:42:43,360
to urge everyone to support Alder
Matthews and Glenn's resolution to

1093
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:47,119
transfer funding of $28,500
from the contingency reserve fund to the

1094
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:53,199
Office of Independent Monitor for
additional staffing and service costs um

1095
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:57,520
and to direct staff to provide full
accounting of costs associated with the

1096
01:42:55,760 --> 01:43:03,199
city's critical incident response
between July 22nd, 2026 and September

1097
01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:08,159
8th, 2026.
and to fully fund the office of

1098
01:43:05,119 --> 01:43:15,600
independent monitor for the 2027
budget. Um I am also speaking as

1099
01:43:12,719 --> 01:43:19,040
somebody who is utterly exhausted of
seeing supposed leaders of this

1100
01:43:17,440 --> 01:43:26,239
community
um fail to listen to their constituents.

1101
01:43:23,199 --> 01:43:30,320
Um also to dehumanize the most
marginalize and vulnerable people in

1102
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:36,880
this community.
um and to see community members step up

1103
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:42,560
time and time and time again um to urge
people um to urge supposed leaders um to

1104
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:49,600
do their jobs.
Um and this includes my alder of

1105
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:54,960
district 13, Tag Ivers. I am incredibly
disgusted by the number of times almost

1106
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:59,440
immediately after the murder
that he called the vigil a beautiful

1107
01:43:57,679 --> 01:44:05,440
which was a beautiful space and a very
safe space the homeless encampment in a

1108
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:11,119
derogatory way. And he did this on his
blog post multiple times. And it is

1109
01:44:08,719 --> 01:44:15,119
things like this that alders get away
with and other leaders in this community

1110
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:20,320
get away with that is just so sickening.
And you all are complicit in murders

1111
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:27,040
such as these. And you need to be the
least you can do, like TBank said, is to

1112
01:44:23,679 --> 01:44:34,239
is to move pennies, literally just
pennies. This is a city that despite its

1113
01:44:31,119 --> 01:44:40,800
deficit, millions of dollars of deficit,
has such an inflated police budget. And

1114
01:44:36,719 --> 01:44:46,239
I remember when the community made sure
back in the spring that the flock um

1115
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:53,840
contract was not renewed
um that multiple leaders all urgently

1116
01:44:50,239 --> 01:44:59,119
» about 30 seconds left. all urgently made
sure that this police department that we

1117
01:44:56,159 --> 01:45:04,960
so trust and love did not lose their
$80,000 that was originally supposed to

1118
01:45:01,360 --> 01:45:15,360
be spent on the contract um to renew the
renewed contract for Flock. And

1119
01:45:08,639 --> 01:45:19,119
the least you can do is um find the um
is to support this agenda item. I yield

1120
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:23,840
my time.
>> Thank you. Our next registrition is

1121
01:45:21,440 --> 01:45:30,639
Barbie Jackson of District 7 to be
followed by Kayla Riley to followed by

1122
01:45:26,159 --> 01:45:33,600
Elizabeth Warzonic. Do we have Barbie?
>> Yes. Can you hear me?

1123
01:45:31,679 --> 01:45:37,600
» Yes. Go ahead.
>> Uh hello again. I hope the members of

1124
01:45:35,679 --> 01:45:42,080
the common council will seriously
consider voting in support of this

1125
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:45,760
operating budget amendment as well as
directing staff to provide a full

1126
01:45:43,679 --> 01:45:50,800
accounting of costs associated with this
city's critical incident response. This

1127
01:45:49,280 --> 01:45:55,119
item was presented to the finance
committee on August 31st. I listened

1128
01:45:53,199 --> 01:45:59,679
carefully to the lengthy comments as
they debated this proposal and then

1129
01:45:57,199 --> 01:46:04,400
unanimously voted no and recommended
placing it on file. While some of that

1130
01:46:02,480 --> 01:46:08,960
discussion directly pertained to the
specific request and the availability of

1131
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:12,960
funds. More importantly from my
perspective, most of the discussion was

1132
01:46:11,199 --> 01:46:19,760
about various perspectives about the
PCOB, the OIPM and independent monitor

1133
01:46:16,719 --> 01:46:26,080
glass following
the police killing of Corey Ruiz.

1134
01:46:23,440 --> 01:46:30,639
I believe all commenters spoke from the
heart and with considerable emotion

1135
01:46:28,639 --> 01:46:35,520
while having widely divergent
perspectives of the authority invested

1136
01:46:32,639 --> 01:46:40,480
the in the OIPM and IM and widely
divergent perspectives about the quote

1137
01:46:37,679 --> 01:46:45,040
activist community which represents
impacted people whether they be unhoused

1138
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:49,600
community,
those grappling with mental health or

1139
01:46:46,639 --> 01:46:53,520
substance issues, the black community,
and simply those just struggling from

1140
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:58,400
day to day due to lack of sufficient
resources for healthy and successful

1141
01:46:56,000 --> 01:47:02,719
living. In view of these divergent
comments, which by the way a few members

1142
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:08,320
of my church have expressed to me and
other advocates for system systemic

1143
01:47:05,199 --> 01:47:11,760
change, I realize it is natural to have
different views based on various life

1144
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:16,000
experiences and awareness of other
people's struggles. But this is why I

1145
01:47:14,159 --> 01:47:19,520
asked in my previous testimony for each
of you to reflect on your direct

1146
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:23,840
experience with mental health and
substance use issues. Tonight, I

1147
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:28,159
specifically want to address a comment
Alder Evers made at the close of his

1148
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:31,679
remarks in August in which he stated,
quote,

1149
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:35,920
"If things don't change, I'll be voting
no in November."

1150
01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:40,560
While I've taken this out of the context
he painted, much of the context was with

1151
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:46,960
reference to specific individuals
remarks or behaviors. I find this to be

1152
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:50,480
deeply troubling. The OIPM and the PCOB
are a critical component of the systemic

1153
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:54,639
change that must occur in Madison
policing. While not speaking on behalf

1154
01:47:52,880 --> 01:47:59,440
of Moses tonight, I will state that
Moses fully supports both offices and

1155
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:04,159
full funding. I am thankful that
President Madison and PCOB Chair Pearson

1156
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:08,560
were able to reach an agreement in July.
about 30 seconds left.

1157
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:13,119
» To quote pursue restorative justice, to
rebuild trust, and to create a stronger

1158
01:48:11,280 --> 01:48:18,320
foundation for the important work of
police oversight, end quote.

1159
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:22,560
I call on the full common council to
respect a restorative process toward

1160
01:48:20,719 --> 01:48:25,760
assurance that there will be no future
efforts to interfere with the

1161
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:32,080
independence and authority of the OIPM
and the PCO and to assure the ongoing

1162
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:37,520
funding of these offices in 2027.
Thank you for listening. Thank you. Our

1163
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:42,880
next registrant is Kayla Riley of
District 8 to be followed by Elizabeth

1164
01:48:39,679 --> 01:48:47,600
Roszone to be followed by Sydney Zetler.
Do we have Kayla?

1165
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:51,840
» Go ahead. Hi, my name is Kayla Riley.
Uh, many of my comrades know me as Moon.

1166
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:55,760
Uh, 3 minutes here is not enough time to
address and correct Satia's countless

1167
01:48:53,440 --> 01:48:59,199
lies alone. Uh, certainly not enough
time to say everything I'd like to. So,

1168
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:05,520
I could get up here and talk to you all
about how out of touch with with reality

1169
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:09,440
most of you are out here. Uh, [sighs]
I could talk about how deplorable your

1170
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:13,119
constant lies are. I could talk about
the community birthed from tragedy, a

1171
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:17,600
community of beautiful people that
alchemize their pain, love, anger, and

1172
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:21,440
rage into tangible action and community
care. I could talk about the strangers

1173
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:25,600
I've come to love and trust more than
some I've known a decade. I could talk

1174
01:49:23,679 --> 01:49:29,119
about how most nights at Cory's memorial
I felt safer to sleep on a mattress in

1175
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:34,719
the middle of that intersection than I
did to drive home at night for fear of

1176
01:49:30,719 --> 01:49:38,960
police pulling me over. Um, I could tell
you about the times I've been followed

1177
01:49:36,480 --> 01:49:42,239
by police since Cory's murder. Or I
could talk about the night my comrades

1178
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:46,400
and I were stalked and verbally harassed
by an officer outside a private business

1179
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:49,280
for a private event. I could talk about
the countless times I've seen on house

1180
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:53,920
folks, our on- house neighbors, be
harassed and arrested for no reason on

1181
01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:57,920
Willie Street. oftentimes those of us
stewarding that corner are the only ones

1182
01:49:56,080 --> 01:50:02,159
to witness or record those events
happening.

1183
01:49:59,440 --> 01:50:06,080
Um, I did have a section here I was
going to address uh, Council President

1184
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:09,199
Madison and your claims of harassment. I
know your son personally, so maybe we

1185
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:14,960
could talk about that later since you
blocked me. Uh, more examples of lies

1186
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:21,199
being upheld and lack of accountability.
Um Satia, you've been telling us to take

1187
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:25,199
appropriate avenues for action and uh it
seems to me that the M is that not one

1188
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:30,880
of those avenues that we're supposed to
take? Maybe you should fund it then. Um

1189
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:36,239
yet here we are again begging for the
bare minimum yet again. We've remained

1190
01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:40,320
peaceful. We've played by your rules.
The ones y'all are not even following.

1191
01:50:38,480 --> 01:50:44,880
Even based on your own city policy,
Cory's memorial should have been handled

1192
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:50,000
as a tier 2B encampment and given 24 to
72 hours to move. We were gas lit and

1193
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:54,000
lied to. You lied about a respectful
transition. You lied and told us you

1194
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:58,239
would preserve memorial items and mutual
aid. You didn't. You lied and told us

1195
01:50:56,320 --> 01:51:03,199
the city would preserve that manhole in
the street and you didn't. We protest

1196
01:51:01,199 --> 01:51:07,840
genocide and war crimes. You send in
police to beat and bloody us. We protest

1197
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:14,320
police brutality and you send in police
to brutalize us. You have the money to

1198
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:19,760
fund the M. You have money for drones on
us lighting candles.

1199
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:23,679
» I have police and riot gear. Y'all have
money for the M. There's no reason why

1200
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:27,760
you all can't give this 28,000 to the
Office of Independent Monitor. It's the

1201
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:31,840
bare minimum really. And we're done
begging for the bare minimum. The people

1202
01:51:29,760 --> 01:51:34,719
are out here. We're united. We will not
be defeated. And we will not be

1203
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:39,679
silenced.
Um, [clears throat] and next we'll come

1204
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:44,400
for we will take back our power and next
we'll come for y'all's jobs that y'all

1205
01:51:41,440 --> 01:51:47,920
don't seem to want to do. Um, I'd also
like to end with reminding everyone you

1206
01:51:46,239 --> 01:51:49,599
cannot be violent towards inanimate
objects.

1207
01:51:48,639 --> 01:51:54,320
» Your time. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

1208
01:51:51,599 --> 01:51:59,360
» Our next registrant is Elizabeth Warzone
to be followed by Sydney Zetler and then

1209
01:51:57,679 --> 01:52:03,360
we're going to circle back uh to the
folks that we missed. Do we have

1210
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:06,560
Elizabeth?
Hello.

1211
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:11,679
» Go ahead.
>> Um,

1212
01:52:09,440 --> 01:52:19,520
oh [clears throat] boy. Um, I was
sitting down and writing a little blurb

1213
01:52:14,719 --> 01:52:23,119
that I could share about my thoughts um
on

1214
01:52:21,119 --> 01:52:30,639
the budget for this year and next year
and blah blah blah. And

1215
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:37,840
I'm just tired. I I'm tired. Um, friends
of mine are tired. People are angry. Um,

1216
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:44,239
we've been going through this for
at least six weeks

1217
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:52,800
as far as
as Corey, but it's beyond that.

1218
01:52:50,080 --> 01:53:00,400
And I don't know how much I can really
give you to

1219
01:52:56,239 --> 01:53:04,400
to just put it into the budget.
um

1220
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:12,159
it's
the reason why I find this so um

1221
01:53:09,199 --> 01:53:15,520
puzzling is that
um

1222
01:53:13,679 --> 01:53:21,199
you know this actually would save quite
a bit of money if we had an oversight an

1223
01:53:19,119 --> 01:53:27,679
office and an independent um police
monitor like that person would literally

1224
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:32,960
bring down the cost of police officers.
That's the goal. So it doesn't it

1225
01:53:31,119 --> 01:53:39,119
doesn't make sense that all these people
are trying to say it over again in many

1226
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:45,280
different forms and try to make it clear
that this is what they want because we

1227
01:53:41,599 --> 01:53:50,320
are the people. I'm the person.
you're the person,

1228
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:56,320
you know, like that's what we're here to
do is to like finally try to get it

1229
01:53:52,719 --> 01:54:01,599
through your head and, you know, mayor
and, you know, all the like it doesn't

1230
01:53:59,199 --> 01:54:05,280
make it makes me feel so angry and yet
so

1231
01:54:03,599 --> 01:54:10,719
I don't I don't even know what to say,
but I will just try to say a couple

1232
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:16,320
blurs. Currently we pay two pe we take
pay two people already as at the low

1233
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:24,239
amount and service costs as they're
operating with low shortage in funds. If

1234
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:31,440
funded, OIM would bring incidents down
and not as many police incidents is a

1235
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:38,320
smaller number um than the fewer and
then fewer budget on police and more

1236
01:54:35,199 --> 01:54:43,760
things like upgrade on more equipment or
staff in the independent monitoring.

1237
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:49,280
» You have about 30 seconds left. ask for
a ask for um accountability and if they

1238
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:55,199
don't have it then they are fired and
someone else who's more qualified enters

1239
01:54:52,080 --> 01:55:04,239
um and transfer funding from the two
$28,000 from reverse line so I o can add

1240
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:09,679
additional staffing and service cost
emergency cost funding for OIM so that

1241
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:14,480
they can you know investigate a case or
more um it's an easy fix

1242
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:18,960
» thank Thank you. That's your time. Our
next registrant is Sydney Zetler of

1243
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:25,800
Clark Street and then we'll try again
for Ariel Haber Faucet and Alexander

1244
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:25,800
Wilburn. Do we have Sydney?

1245
01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:32,040
Doesn't look like we have Sydney in the
room.

1246
01:55:32,239 --> 01:55:36,800
You should be able to unmute Sydney. Oh,
yeah. You should be able to talk,

1247
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:39,520
Sydney.
>> Hey there. Can you hear me?

1248
01:55:38,000 --> 01:55:43,679
» Yes. Go ahead.
>> All right. Uh, my name is Sydney and I'm

1249
01:55:41,679 --> 01:55:48,239
here to urge the council to adopt all
three parts of the resolution and agenda

1250
01:55:45,599 --> 01:55:52,400
item 60. Madison's Office of the
Independent Monitor is the only entity

1251
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:56,239
in the city empowered to independently
investigate police conduct. I want to

1252
01:55:54,800 --> 01:56:00,560
talk about some ways that it's already
worked. Its work has already changed the

1253
01:55:58,639 --> 01:56:05,280
official record on at least one death in
police custody. Independent Glasses

1254
01:56:03,119 --> 01:56:10,320
investigation into the death of Richard
Lee Johnson found that Madison police

1255
01:56:07,679 --> 01:56:14,560
officers caused Johnson's death through
prone restraint, excessive force, and

1256
01:56:12,239 --> 01:56:19,040
failure to render aid, and officers
admitted key details about their use of

1257
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:23,440
force from official reports. The Dayne
County Medical Examiner ruled the death

1258
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:28,400
an accidental cocaine overdose, but
Glass's independently retained forensic

1259
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:32,719
pathologist found no active cocaine in
Johnson's blood at the time of his death

1260
01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:36,560
and concluded the actual cause was prone
restraint cardiac arrest, a finding the

1261
01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:42,960
medical examiner's own office had
missed. That kind of scrutiny takes

1262
01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:46,560
time, expertise, and money. Since July,
the Office of the Independent Monitor

1263
01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:51,520
has been at the center of the city's
response to the officer involved death

1264
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:55,840
of Cory Ruiz, including a dispute over
the office's authority to subpoena

1265
01:56:53,679 --> 01:57:00,560
records from MPD and the Wisconsin
Department of Justice during an active

1266
01:56:58,080 --> 01:57:05,360
investigation, a controversy that has
consumed staff time and resources. An

1267
01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:09,760
office already operating at capacity
cannot absorb a crisis of this scale.

1268
01:57:07,840 --> 01:57:14,880
Cory Ruiz's death and the city's
response without additional support. And

1269
01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:19,199
asking it to do so with an empty tank
does a disservice to every resident who

1270
01:57:17,119 --> 01:57:26,560
has needed its support and may need its
help next. That's why the 20 28,500

1271
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:31,119
contingency transfer matters now and not
later. A full accounting of the costs

1272
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:36,000
the city has incurred responding to the
critical incident. July 22nd through

1273
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:40,239
September 8th is a reasonable and
necessary companion step. It gives the

1274
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:45,440
council and the public a clear picture
of what this response actually cost

1275
01:57:42,480 --> 01:57:49,760
before the 2027 budget is finalized
rather than guessing.

1276
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:53,520
An independent monitor's office is one
of few tools that a city has to hold its

1277
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:57,760
police department accountable to the
residents most affected by that

1278
01:57:55,040 --> 01:58:01,920
disparity. There's a disparity between
how black and white people are policed

1279
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:06,480
in Madison, one of the worst in the
country. Underfunding the Office of the

1280
01:58:04,159 --> 01:58:11,040
Independent Monitor. Now, in the
immediate aftermath of a death in

1281
01:58:08,159 --> 01:58:13,520
custody, Cory Ruiz's death, an officer
involved shooting, and a public,

1282
01:58:12,421 --> 01:58:17,920
[clears throat]
the office's own authority sends exactly

1283
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:21,840
the wrong message and signal about
whether the city is serious about

1284
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:26,719
oversight when it's actually tested.
Fully funding the office of the

1285
01:58:23,360 --> 01:58:30,480
independent monitor in 2027. And now is
how Madison backs up its stated

1286
01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:34,880
commitment to equity and accountability
with resources to make it real. Any

1287
01:58:32,960 --> 01:58:40,239
action short of backing these three
items and agenda item 60 is on the wrong

1288
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:45,520
side of history.
>> Thank you. That's your time.

1289
01:58:42,639 --> 01:58:51,159
All right. Let's see if we have Ariel
Habber Faucet or Alexander Wilburn.

1290
01:58:51,199 --> 01:58:55,960
Doesn't look like either of them are in
the room.

1291
01:58:56,080 --> 01:59:03,840
Mayor, they're both not online either.
>> Thank you very much. [gasps]

1292
01:59:01,119 --> 01:59:08,719
Then our next registrant is Shadira
Kilfoy Flores of District 6 to be

1293
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:13,800
followed by Robert Michael Pett to be
followed by Ashley Smiley. Shadira

1294
01:59:31,599 --> 01:59:42,960
I can't express how disappointed I am to
have to be here tonight,

1295
01:59:38,719 --> 01:59:47,599
to have to beg for $28.5,000
for the office of the independent

1296
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:50,480
monitor to be able to do their important
work.

1297
01:59:50,639 --> 01:59:59,280
I'm really disappointed by some of our
leadership's lack of response.

1298
01:59:57,119 --> 02:00:06,840
Tomorrow will make six weeks since Corey
Ruiz was killed. Have you offered

1299
02:00:02,239 --> 02:00:06,840
condolences to his family, mayor?

1300
02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:13,520
It's a very simple thing.
It would mean a lot.

1301
02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:19,199
I don't appreciate the fact that I've
worked side by side with many of you and

1302
02:00:16,719 --> 02:00:25,800
given some of you stories
when you've asked for it and then in

1303
02:00:21,040 --> 02:00:25,800
return I was lied to.

1304
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:38,880
Prior to the memorial, it wasn't just an
encampment. It was a memorial where

1305
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:44,159
people came together to mourn
because this continues to happen. We

1306
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:48,880
continue to have people killed by our
police who are supposed to protect and

1307
02:00:46,639 --> 02:00:54,800
serve us and then we're supposed to have
leaders

1308
02:00:50,719 --> 02:01:00,159
back us up as civilians.
I want to say thank you to my alder Davy

1309
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:06,400
Mayor who's been showing up, who's been
there in person, to Carmela Glenn who

1310
02:01:03,040 --> 02:01:13,040
continues to show up.
And where

1311
02:01:09,040 --> 02:01:18,960
are some of the rest of you?
I saw you, Alder Yanette, leave the room

1312
02:01:16,239 --> 02:01:24,320
and not even listen to Chip Cruz, the
only person that bothered to call in.

1313
02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:28,639
You left the room and then when there
were people talking, you talked right

1314
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:33,520
over them. What kind of leadership is
that? You're here to listen because

1315
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:37,199
you're here. You've been appointed to
lead.

1316
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:44,480
Make some difference. Make some change
for the better.

1317
02:01:40,159 --> 02:01:49,119
This alers's workg group. What a joke.
There's a work group that's already been

1318
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:55,040
put in place to go through the officer,
the MPD's policies and procedures. There

1319
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:59,840
was already an ad hoc committee. There
was already an evaluation. And there is

1320
02:01:57,440 --> 02:02:01,119
now the police civilian oversight board.
Have

1321
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:04,880
» about 30 seconds left.
>> You have a bunch of people who are out

1322
02:02:02,719 --> 02:02:10,320
of touch
on that group as opposed to using the

1323
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:14,639
police civilian oversight board where
who are a bunch of people who have been

1324
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:21,040
chosen by the community. Why would you
do that?

1325
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:26,480
To undermine the PCOB?
Shame on you.

1326
02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:30,880
Thank you. Our next registrant is Robert
Michael Pets of District 6 to be

1327
02:02:28,800 --> 02:02:35,719
followed by Ashley Smiley to be followed
by Alex Saludos. Do we have Robert?

1328
02:02:39,119 --> 02:02:43,560
Doesn't look like Robert's in the room.

1329
02:02:49,440 --> 02:02:57,880
Uh, Robert Michael Pets, if that's you
listed as Bobby, you should be able to

1330
02:02:54,400 --> 02:02:57,880
unmute yourself.

1331
02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:06,679
If it's not, you maybe unmute yourself
and let us know that.

1332
02:03:13,840 --> 02:03:21,440
Okay,
we're going to move on and come back

1333
02:03:19,280 --> 02:03:26,639
then.
Uh,

1334
02:03:23,199 --> 02:03:31,040
next is Ashley Smiley of District 12 to
be followed by Alex Soludos to be

1335
02:03:28,639 --> 02:03:33,760
followed by Erica Bach. Do we have
Ashley?

1336
02:03:32,719 --> 02:03:36,800
» Thank you, mayor.
>> Go ahead.

1337
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:40,800
» Um, thank you.
First of all, I would just like to say

1338
02:03:38,639 --> 02:03:45,679
thank you uh to a few alders who have
taken time to speak with me in the last

1339
02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:53,280
few weeks. Um so thank you to Julia
Matthews who's my alder, Carmela Glenn.

1340
02:03:49,280 --> 02:03:57,520
Um and also to Tag Evers, Joanne
Pritchette, and Sabrina Madison who all

1341
02:03:55,440 --> 02:04:03,920
took time to speak with me uh within the
last week or so.

1342
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:08,320
It is my impression that we are all on
the same team effectively

1343
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:14,080
that
as a community we would all like to see

1344
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:18,800
more funding in the office of the
independent monitor and that the

1345
02:04:15,679 --> 02:04:25,120
conflict is really when that funding
will be administered whether it is in

1346
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:29,706
this budget year or next budget year and
[snorts] how much money and what that

1347
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:33,760
money will effectively. support.
[snorts] I am in the process of

1348
02:04:31,679 --> 02:04:37,599
communicating with Nicole and the
Quatron Center for the Fair

1349
02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:42,480
Administration of Justice to get some
recommendations on what adequate

1350
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:46,639
staffing costs would be and how many
staff would be needed for a city of our

1351
02:04:44,560 --> 02:04:52,480
size with a police force of our size to
effectively run this office. So, you can

1352
02:04:49,040 --> 02:04:56,560
expect my emails on that shortly. Um, in
the meantime, I know we're all feeling

1353
02:04:54,239 --> 02:05:03,119
really frustrated with where things are
right now, and so I wanted to read um an

1354
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:10,159
excerpt really quick from a MPD document
entitled One year later, Madison protest

1355
02:05:06,080 --> 02:05:15,920
event review final. Um,
under the header for recommendation

1356
02:05:12,159 --> 02:05:20,000
five, it says MPD should collaborate
with community representatives to

1357
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:25,199
identify and train a group of community
dialogue representatives, individuals

1358
02:05:22,639 --> 02:05:29,520
outside of MPD who can be briefed on
protester and MPD expectations for the

1359
02:05:27,679 --> 02:05:34,320
protest and who can identify the
changing needs of the protesters to MPD

1360
02:05:32,239 --> 02:05:39,280
in ways that will maximize the ability
of MPD to facilitate peaceful protests

1361
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:45,199
and prioritize life over property while
striving to protect both.

1362
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:50,719
In reply to this in this document, um
MPD provided this update. MPD has added

1363
02:05:48,639 --> 02:05:54,159
information and educational materials to
the Madison Police and City Parks

1364
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:58,560
Department websites which can be viewed
at below URL. I'm going skip ahead a

1365
02:05:56,239 --> 02:06:03,760
little bit. Additionally, the community
dialogue team that's part of MPD will

1366
02:06:01,599 --> 02:06:08,159
help create a cadre of community
dialogue representatives.

1367
02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:11,360
left.
>> If you're interested in being a

1368
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:16,159
community dialogue representative,
please email Captain Ed Marshall of the

1369
02:06:13,599 --> 02:06:19,679
East Precinct. He's very interested in
talking to you. I'll see the rest of my

1370
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:24,400
time.
>> Thank you. Our next registrant is Alex

1371
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:30,840
Saludos of District 5 to be followed by
Erica Bach to be followed by Eric

1372
02:06:26,880 --> 02:06:30,840
Howland. Alex,

1373
02:06:36,320 --> 02:06:44,239
» I don't know who's luckier tonight to
have me up here twice. Uh, I support the

1374
02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:49,360
OIM's mission and goals. They're as
important now as they were in 2020 when

1375
02:06:46,719 --> 02:06:52,960
you created them. We have an excellent
ordinance.

1376
02:06:51,119 --> 02:06:56,719
It's not perfect. There's certainly room
for improvement.

1377
02:06:54,960 --> 02:07:02,000
I've listened to the impassioned and
heartfelt comments by alders Glenn and

1378
02:06:58,639 --> 02:07:09,520
Matthews who uh uh about this resolution
at last week's finance committee and

1379
02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:13,760
many more uh similar comments tonight.
In the scheme of things, from my

1380
02:07:11,040 --> 02:07:18,639
perspective, $28,000 is a small
percentage of what the OIM needs to

1381
02:07:15,679 --> 02:07:23,520
fulfill its mission. I understand if you
vote no on this resolution given what

1382
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:27,840
you've seen and heard.
Both sides have legitimate issues about

1383
02:07:25,599 --> 02:07:33,520
the OIM's powers that need to be sorted
out in a mutually respectful way.

1384
02:07:31,040 --> 02:07:39,040
Here's my ask, which I know won't be
popular with my neighbors and friends

1385
02:07:34,960 --> 02:07:44,560
who support the OIM and PCO.
I urge them to step back and ask you,

1386
02:07:41,679 --> 02:07:51,119
the alders, the council, what does the
IM and PCOB need to do to regain your

1387
02:07:47,280 --> 02:07:54,639
trust and be funded appropriately so we
can fulfill our mission that you gave

1388
02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:59,840
us.
I urge you, the alders, the council that

1389
02:07:57,840 --> 02:08:07,119
created this agency and holds its purse
strings to be frank and tell the PCO

1390
02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:11,840
what they need to do to earn your trust.
And if you don't support their mission

1391
02:08:08,880 --> 02:08:16,560
and goals, then be transparent and say
so.

1392
02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:22,560
I urge the OIM PCOB and their supporters
to listen with an open mind and use the

1393
02:08:19,199 --> 02:08:27,360
feedback that you get to make changes.
Without your trust, the council's trust,

1394
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:32,239
they're not going to get the funding
that they need. Worst case, the OIM and

1395
02:08:30,560 --> 02:08:38,320
PCO
don't have the council's trust.

1396
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:43,599
their independence will be compromised
if not eliminated. Let's fix the

1397
02:08:40,960 --> 02:08:50,719
problems, not the blame. Let's focus on
the issues, not the people. Thank you.

1398
02:08:48,400 --> 02:08:55,840
» Thank you. Our next registrant is Erica
Bach of Middleton to be followed by Eric

1399
02:08:53,840 --> 02:08:59,079
Hullen to be followed by Bonnie Row. Do
we have Erica?

1400
02:09:01,760 --> 02:09:05,760
Erica, you should be able to unmute.

1401
02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:12,239
Thank you all for your time here
tonight. Although it is your job, I

1402
02:09:10,560 --> 02:09:16,639
still appreciate you being present and
hopefully with your listening ears. Um,

1403
02:09:15,119 --> 02:09:21,920
many different sources including
security.org have listed that the best

1404
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:28,000
police departments in this country are
such because they have police oversight.

1405
02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:36,639
The amount of money that we are talking
about here in item number 60, $28,500.

1406
02:09:33,520 --> 02:09:40,320
This is a soft lob for you all. This is
an opportunity to show your

1407
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:44,159
constituents, both those who support the
police department and those who are

1408
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:48,960
horrified by what they witnessed from
our police department, in order to say

1409
02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:52,880
that you are willing to support the
urgent staffing solely through the end

1410
02:09:51,119 --> 02:09:57,360
of 2026.
It is a very bare minimum as your

1411
02:09:55,119 --> 02:10:02,639
constituents have told you that all
costs between July 22nd and today

1412
02:10:00,079 --> 02:10:08,000
September 8th should be accounted for.
From a purely financial standpoint,

1413
02:10:05,520 --> 02:10:13,520
there's absolutely no reason why you all
cannot use your police powers as

1414
02:10:10,480 --> 02:10:17,920
dictated by statute and ordinance in
order to ask your Madison Police

1415
02:10:15,920 --> 02:10:23,040
Department how much money they are
spending. on the Dane County uh side of

1416
02:10:21,360 --> 02:10:27,560
things. I know that they need to have
approval for anything over 10,000

1417
02:10:27,760 --> 02:10:35,760
anywhere and scouring the internet find
out what is the amount of money that the

1418
02:10:32,880 --> 02:10:39,920
common council gets to approve as a like
a pre-expenditure.

1419
02:10:37,679 --> 02:10:43,440
So it one I think it needs to be very
clear and transparent to your

1420
02:10:41,440 --> 02:10:48,000
constituents. How much money can a
department spend without common council

1421
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:53,280
approving that? And that should apply to
the Madison Police Department. And the

1422
02:10:50,159 --> 02:10:57,280
two that needs to be held to account. If
there is a set amount of money that this

1423
02:10:55,199 --> 02:11:01,840
council needs to approve from any of the
other departments, HR can't spend over X

1424
02:11:00,159 --> 02:11:05,520
number of dollars, how much can the
Madison Police Department spend? And if

1425
02:11:04,239 --> 02:11:10,960
it is any more than [clears throat]
28,500,

1426
02:11:07,520 --> 02:11:14,760
this is very small to the OM. Things are
getting extremely personal.

1427
02:11:16,719 --> 02:11:26,159
» Oh, it looks like we lost Erica.
How much time did they have left?

1428
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:31,760
Okay, if Erica laggs back on, we'll give
her her last 50 seconds.

1429
02:11:29,280 --> 02:11:37,599
Uh, so let's go on then to Eric Howland
of District 13 to be followed by Bonnie

1430
02:11:34,400 --> 02:11:42,800
Row to be followed by Indigo Erlin. Do
we have Eric?

1431
02:11:40,079 --> 02:11:47,599
Yes. Go ahead. Um,
>> thank you, mayor, and and council for

1432
02:11:44,960 --> 02:11:52,960
the chance to speak. Uh, my name is Eric
Howland. I'm a member of Moses, but

1433
02:11:50,159 --> 02:11:56,639
speaking for myself, um, I've spoken
before about the value of the

1434
02:11:55,040 --> 02:12:02,159
independent monitor, and I don't want to
repeat myself. I can just say that I

1435
02:11:59,040 --> 02:12:08,239
agree with the Moses cap times op-ed
that itemized the benefits of the office

1436
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:14,800
of the independent monitor. um like a
previous um speaker here did tonight. Um

1437
02:12:13,199 --> 02:12:20,800
I'm going to make an argument about
workload. Um almost everybody agrees

1438
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:25,679
that the police oversight is important
regardless of their other uh opinions

1439
02:12:23,599 --> 02:12:30,719
about how oversight should be
accomplished. Additionally, it's clear

1440
02:12:28,079 --> 02:12:36,320
that the workload for the office of the
independent monitor increased relative

1441
02:12:33,599 --> 02:12:42,159
to the events surrounding the death of
Corey Ruez and also because of the

1442
02:12:39,119 --> 02:12:49,520
increased requests for investigations
resulting from the inc increased

1443
02:12:45,760 --> 02:12:58,560
awareness that the office exists.
Um the in the mayor's uh proposed 2026

1444
02:12:53,040 --> 02:13:05,360
budget um uh I mean the the mayor's 2025
uh budget proposed cutting the uh office

1445
02:13:01,599 --> 02:13:10,480
of the independent monitor by 46%. Um
with a budget note given delays in

1446
02:13:08,079 --> 02:13:15,440
staffing and setting up the office the
2025 budget was the first opportunity to

1447
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:20,239
rightsize
uh the budget for ongoing operations.

1448
02:13:18,719 --> 02:13:27,119
Fortunately, about half of those cuts
were restored in 2025. Um, but it should

1449
02:13:24,639 --> 02:13:34,639
but the budget for the office of the
independent monitor was um has been

1450
02:13:30,880 --> 02:13:40,000
significantly reduced relative to the um
the initial estimates of what it was

1451
02:13:36,960 --> 02:13:46,079
needed. Um this is not the moment that
the office of the independent monitor

1452
02:13:42,159 --> 02:13:50,320
will be right sized but it is a moment
that the uh office of the independent

1453
02:13:48,079 --> 02:13:56,000
monitor can be supported through the
rest of the year um with this additional

1454
02:13:53,599 --> 02:14:02,000
workload that seems like beneficial for
everyone. I request that you support it.

1455
02:13:59,599 --> 02:14:09,639
Thank you for your time.
>> Thank you. It looks like we have Erica

1456
02:14:04,159 --> 02:14:09,639
back. Can we um let her finish?

1457
02:14:09,760 --> 02:14:14,560
» Thank you all. I appreciate that. I
think I cut off when I was saying that

1458
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:18,560
this is getting extremely personal
between elected officials and members of

1459
02:14:16,800 --> 02:14:22,239
the public. And what I'd like to really
ask you all to do is bring this back to

1460
02:14:20,239 --> 02:14:27,199
the public trust. Some of the money
being proposed tonight is specifically

1461
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:31,280
to attend Nicole building public trust
through law enforcement accountability

1462
02:14:28,800 --> 02:14:35,679
and transparency. There's absolutely no
reason that as elected officials, you

1463
02:14:33,119 --> 02:14:39,840
wouldn't want that public trust with
your police department. Based on my

1464
02:14:38,079 --> 02:14:45,280
personal experience at the memorial for
Cory Ruiz, sometimes from 7:00 a.m. up

1465
02:14:42,960 --> 02:14:47,599
until at times 3:00 a.m. and the days
that follow.

1466
02:14:46,159 --> 02:14:50,880
» 30 seconds left.
>> Thank you. In the days that followed uh

1467
02:14:49,360 --> 02:14:54,880
the tearing down or the destruction of
the intersection, I was one of four

1468
02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:58,560
individuals. There were eight officers
and 14 different squad cars that drove

1469
02:14:57,199 --> 02:15:02,159
through that intersection over a
40minute period. Each and every one of

1470
02:15:00,719 --> 02:15:07,119
you should be questioning the amount of
overtime that is getting paid so that we

1471
02:15:04,560 --> 02:15:11,760
can right size that we can avoid the
excessive use

1472
02:15:09,440 --> 02:15:15,040
of deadly force
followed and that we continue to build

1473
02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:20,079
this public trust instead of these
personal conflicts. Please authorize

1474
02:15:17,679 --> 02:15:23,360
20.5 and we'll continue the rest of the
conversation.

1475
02:15:20,480 --> 02:15:27,679
» That's your time. Thank you very much.
All right, our next registrant is Bonnie

1476
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:33,199
Row of District 11 to be followed by
Indigo Erlinborn to be followed by Sarah

1477
02:15:30,239 --> 02:15:37,360
Loenberg. Do we have Bonnie?
>> Yes. Good evening, Mayor and members of

1478
02:15:35,040 --> 02:15:41,520
the common council. I was relieved to
witness a unanimous no vote on this item

1479
02:15:39,679 --> 02:15:45,040
at the finance committee meeting. There
are many good reasons for that and I

1480
02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:49,679
hope you will all stick with your vote
despite intense political pressure. I

1481
02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:55,840
believe I'm speaking for the majority of
silent Msonians on this issue.

1482
02:15:53,920 --> 02:16:00,079
those of us who want civilian oversight
of police but who want a fair and

1483
02:15:57,920 --> 02:16:04,880
objective oversight unlike what we've
seen in this ongoing iteration of the

1484
02:16:02,239 --> 02:16:09,440
office of the independent monitor. I
strongly oppose any additional funding

1485
02:16:06,880 --> 02:16:14,400
at this time. Social media rants and
other public statements by the staff of

1486
02:16:11,360 --> 02:16:19,440
this office demonstrate strong bias and
a complete lack of professionalism and

1487
02:16:16,639 --> 02:16:24,079
objectivity. outcomes are predetermined
before even conducting an investigation.

1488
02:16:22,239 --> 02:16:27,520
There's no way the staff of this office
can fairly investigate anything having

1489
02:16:26,079 --> 02:16:32,559
to do with the Madison Police
Department. We need police oversight,

1490
02:16:30,320 --> 02:16:36,719
but it needs to be legitimate. This
office, by the statements and conduct of

1491
02:16:34,479 --> 02:16:40,399
its staff, appears to have prejudged any
and all matters before conducting an

1492
02:16:38,719 --> 02:16:44,719
investigation.
Many residents I have spoken with or

1493
02:16:42,240 --> 02:16:49,200
seen on social media have lost
confidence in this office. The office

1494
02:16:47,519 --> 02:16:54,080
with its current staff is a huge
liability for the city. It operates with

1495
02:16:51,679 --> 02:16:58,479
complete disregard for city APMS and
processes. They failed to adhere to

1496
02:16:56,719 --> 02:17:02,559
budget instructions and attend an
important budget meeting. They have

1497
02:17:00,479 --> 02:17:07,920
hired at least one investigator without
a legal contract. They've retained legal

1498
02:17:05,439 --> 02:17:12,399
counsel with no scope of work, contract,
invoice, or retainer. They have failed

1499
02:17:10,559 --> 02:17:17,040
to adhere to city processes and
procedures established as protections by

1500
02:17:14,719 --> 02:17:22,000
the mayor and council, opening up the
city to financial and reputational risk.

1501
02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:26,880
The office appears to have violated the
state's open meeting laws. The office is

1502
02:17:24,639 --> 02:17:31,040
refusing to be represented and advised
by the office of the city attorney.

1503
02:17:29,359 --> 02:17:36,080
There have been compliance issues with
Fair Labor Standards Act and ordinances

1504
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:40,160
on overtime. There are concerns that an
employee in the office was working from

1505
02:17:38,080 --> 02:17:44,559
another country without a valid
teleawwork agreement on file. There have

1506
02:17:42,800 --> 02:17:49,439
been allegations of stalking and
coercive behavior by an OIM employee.

1507
02:17:47,760 --> 02:17:54,639
There are many more issues. As you
probably know, the city cannot afford

1508
02:17:52,000 --> 02:17:58,719
this level of liability and risk. And
why should an office that does not

1509
02:17:56,319 --> 02:18:03,040
follow rules and procedures itself be
paid more to give oversight to the

1510
02:18:00,800 --> 02:18:07,599
police department and expect them to
follow policies and procedures?

1511
02:18:05,519 --> 02:18:10,000
» About 30 seconds left.
>> All right. Thank you. Have a good

1512
02:18:08,960 --> 02:18:16,000
evening.
>> Thank you. Our next registrant is Indigo

1513
02:18:13,439 --> 02:18:21,040
Erinborn of District 12 to be followed
by Sarah Loenberg to be followed by

1514
02:18:18,479 --> 02:18:23,040
Christina Tenuda. Do we have Indigo?
>> Yes, we do.

1515
02:18:22,559 --> 02:18:28,399
» Hello.
>> Go ahead. Wonderful. Uh, my name is

1516
02:18:25,519 --> 02:18:33,599
Indie, but you can call me Indigo. Um,
I'm not going to speak to you

1517
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:37,760
ideologically or emotionally. Um, but I
will spit facts from the heart. Instead,

1518
02:18:36,399 --> 02:18:41,679
I'm going to speak in a language you do
understand. Here are some things that

1519
02:18:39,760 --> 02:18:46,880
you guys have spent money on from the
Contingent Reserve in the past. In 2021,

1520
02:18:44,080 --> 02:18:52,960
he spent $35,000,
a little bit more than this, on outside

1521
02:18:49,840 --> 02:18:58,639
private legal counsel in property tax
litigation involving section 42.

1522
02:18:56,880 --> 02:19:03,760
The Contingent Reserve regularly
functions as a budget shock absorber for

1523
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:09,840
just random stuff and bad budgeting all
the time. 1.9 million in 2023 was

1524
02:19:06,960 --> 02:19:14,399
appropriated for misbudgeting. uh 2.1
million for projected agency shortfalls

1525
02:19:12,559 --> 02:19:18,559
in 2025.
Uh and what's my point? Okay, so this

1526
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:25,599
year
uh you've used 70k for madcap, 100k for

1527
02:19:21,840 --> 02:19:34,000
facility maintenance, and $400,000 for
election uh deficits.

1528
02:19:29,280 --> 02:19:38,960
But of the full $2.2 2 million
contingent reserve. As of today, there

1529
02:19:37,040 --> 02:19:47,840
is 1.58
million available. That means that 73.5%

1530
02:19:43,599 --> 02:19:55,520
of it is unspent and there's only 31% of
your fiscal year left. If you fund the

1531
02:19:51,040 --> 02:20:01,280
OIM, it will take up 1.33%
of the original reserve and 1.8% of the

1532
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:07,840
remaining reserve. In other words,
you'll still have $1.55

1533
02:20:03,920 --> 02:20:13,680
million to spend in 4 months.
You will still have $72% of the reserve

1534
02:20:10,800 --> 02:20:17,280
left instead of the current 73.5
that you have right now. Clutching your

1535
02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:22,880
pearls about that is frankly
embarrassing. The city of Madison

1536
02:20:19,520 --> 02:20:27,680
budget, I will elaborate more beyond the
contingent reserve is, wait for it,

1537
02:20:25,600 --> 02:20:33,479
$452.7
million. We are requesting 0.0063%

1538
02:20:34,160 --> 02:20:41,680
of the budget of the city of Madison, a
whopping 0.029%

1539
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:47,520
of uh the police department's budget,
which I know firsthand to be $98.3

1540
02:20:45,439 --> 02:20:53,359
million as Chief Patterson answered me
face to face when I asked him if it was

1541
02:20:49,840 --> 02:20:56,720
$98.5 million at the end of the first
press conference after Cory's murder.

1542
02:20:55,200 --> 02:21:00,787
Perhaps you remember. We
>> have about 30 seconds left.

1543
02:20:58,768 --> 02:21:00,787
» [laughter]

1544
02:21:01,439 --> 02:21:10,640
» which uh in other words [laughter]
[gasps]

1545
02:21:05,920 --> 02:21:19,760
we are asking you to devote 6,000
of 1% of the city budget in order to

1546
02:21:15,120 --> 02:21:25,280
somehow monitor the recipients of 1if of
the city budget. Over 20% goes to the

1547
02:21:22,720 --> 02:21:28,319
police who walk around with guns,
qualified immunity.

1548
02:21:26,640 --> 02:21:33,439
» That's your time. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

1549
02:21:30,160 --> 02:21:37,920
» Our next registrant is Sarah Loenberg of
District 6 to be followed by Christina

1550
02:21:35,520 --> 02:21:41,319
Tenuda to be followed by Jana Thompson.
Do we have Sarah?

1551
02:21:42,479 --> 02:21:47,840
Doesn't look like we have Sarah in the
room. Are you online? Yeah. Go ahead,

1552
02:21:45,600 --> 02:21:57,200
Sarah.
>> Okay. Um I am Sarah. Uh,

1553
02:21:52,560 --> 02:22:01,600
honestly, I I am tired and I you guys
have had the opportunity to hear the

1554
02:21:59,439 --> 02:22:08,720
community over and over and over and
you've chosen not to listen. Um, so I

1555
02:22:05,120 --> 02:22:13,200
don't think that me um re reiterating or
saying things differently is going to

1556
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:18,800
get through. Um,
I implore you to act with integrity. I

1557
02:22:15,920 --> 02:22:25,120
support um I support giving the money
and allocating the funds to for police

1558
02:22:20,880 --> 02:22:29,680
oversight. Um I'm not going to
reiterate. I'll just say that I echo all

1559
02:22:27,040 --> 02:22:34,960
of my community members before me and I
do want to amplify the voices of my

1560
02:22:31,920 --> 02:22:40,800
children. I have a 10-year-old, an
8-year-old, and a four-year-old. Um

1561
02:22:37,520 --> 02:22:45,439
Mayor Satia, I did show my 10-year-old.
Um, we as a family, we spent lots of

1562
02:22:43,680 --> 02:22:49,920
time at the memorial and we were there
nearly every day for several hours,

1563
02:22:47,680 --> 02:22:55,280
including my children. I showed my
10-year-old your um, press release about

1564
02:22:52,640 --> 02:22:59,359
the memorial and he looked at me in
confusion. I did not preface it by

1565
02:22:57,359 --> 02:23:03,200
saying anything. I just showed him the
press release just to see what he

1566
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:08,560
thought of what you said. He looked at
me with confusion and he said, "Did she

1567
02:23:06,000 --> 02:23:14,880
ever go there?
What is she talking about?

1568
02:23:11,359 --> 02:23:22,000
I didn't see anything of that and he was
very confused. And my kind of uh crass

1569
02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:26,720
eight-year-old, who I joke is a
85year-old stuck in an 8-year-old butt

1570
02:23:24,080 --> 02:23:30,720
spotty, just goes, "Nope, clearly she
wasn't there."

1571
02:23:28,560 --> 02:23:34,080
Um, so act with integrity. You say you
support your community. You haven't

1572
02:23:32,160 --> 02:23:37,920
since you were elected. you you speak
out of one side of your mouth and you do

1573
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:42,800
not actually in tangible ways support
the community when we are asking

1574
02:23:39,840 --> 02:23:48,640
directly in many different ways. Do
better like police oversight is should

1575
02:23:46,160 --> 02:23:53,720
be a no-brainer. It should be a given.
It should be something that everyone

1576
02:23:50,720 --> 02:23:53,720
wants.

1577
02:23:56,080 --> 02:24:03,280
» I yield my time.
>> Thank you. Our next registrant is

1578
02:24:00,319 --> 02:24:08,479
Christina Tonudo of District 6 to be
followed by Jana Thompson and then we'll

1579
02:24:05,760 --> 02:24:14,560
circle back for Robert Michael Pats. Do
we have Christina?

1580
02:24:11,520 --> 02:24:18,640
» Go ahead. Thank you. Good evening. My
name is Christina Tonuda and I'm here to

1581
02:24:16,399 --> 02:24:23,359
support Alder Matthews resolution number
60. I'm here to urge the council to

1582
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:27,600
allocate emergency funding to replenish
the neglected office of the independent

1583
02:24:25,280 --> 02:24:32,240
monitor so the office can properly
investigate police killings. I'm asking

1584
02:24:30,160 --> 02:24:38,479
the council to fully fund the office of
independent monitor in the 2027 budget.

1585
02:24:35,760 --> 02:24:43,520
I am a resident of district number six.
I live two blocks from the intersection

1586
02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:49,520
of William and Baldwin where Corey Ruiz
was killed. I saw two things when I went

1587
02:24:46,319 --> 02:24:55,359
there. First, I spent time at the
intersection and witnessed the vigil and

1588
02:24:52,560 --> 02:24:59,359
memorial for the life, the lost life of
Corey Ruiz. It was a place of community,

1589
02:24:57,840 --> 02:25:03,760
compassion,
humanity, and healing. It was an

1590
02:25:01,200 --> 02:25:08,720
exercise of civil disobedience.
I saw something else. I also saw the

1591
02:25:06,479 --> 02:25:14,319
intersection of Willian Baldwin on the
morning that the vigil was destroyed. It

1592
02:25:11,680 --> 02:25:20,240
was a forceful use of state violence. I
turned the corner on two occasions and

1593
02:25:16,240 --> 02:25:26,479
was met with a wall of police officers.
This was a location where state violence

1594
02:25:23,680 --> 02:25:31,439
forcibly took action against people,
vulnerable people, unhoused people,

1595
02:25:28,800 --> 02:25:36,960
mentally ill people, and hurting people.
This is why oversight is needed and why

1596
02:25:33,680 --> 02:25:42,399
this resolution should be passed. I urge
the council to pass resolution 60. Thank

1597
02:25:39,920 --> 02:25:48,399
you. I yield my time.
>> Thank you. Our next registrant is Jana

1598
02:25:45,840 --> 02:25:53,479
Thompson of District 17 to be followed
by Robert Michael Patz. Do we have Jana?

1599
02:25:57,359 --> 02:26:05,680
» Hello. So, for all of the reasons um all
of these other community members have

1600
02:26:02,640 --> 02:26:10,080
mentioned, I'm in support of the 28,000
that the Office of Independent

1601
02:26:07,200 --> 02:26:14,720
Monitoring is asking for. But also I
want to raise that we shouldn't be

1602
02:26:11,520 --> 02:26:19,920
distracted by what's going on. Um we are
right now currently in this meeting in a

1603
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:25,120
rat race for scraps. Um these are not
the demands that community has been

1604
02:26:22,000 --> 02:26:28,560
uplifting for over a month. Um we talked
about strengthening the police civilian

1605
02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:34,000
oversight board and office of
independent monitoring. Um and we're

1606
02:26:31,280 --> 02:26:37,200
talking about at least 2 to 5% of the
police budget when we're talking about

1607
02:26:35,359 --> 02:26:41,920
strengthening the board. Right. Um,
these recommendations come from national

1608
02:26:39,439 --> 02:26:46,720
committees that have policies on
oversight. And in actuality, the the

1609
02:26:44,479 --> 02:26:50,319
people of Madison, we want to go above
that when we talk about empowering the

1610
02:26:48,720 --> 02:26:55,600
police civilian oversight board and
office of independent monitoring. Not

1611
02:26:52,160 --> 02:27:00,640
just two to 5% um actually 5 to 10% and
many at least 5% of that money coming

1612
02:26:58,160 --> 02:27:06,160
coming from police pensions especially
when misconduct occurs because time and

1613
02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:10,240
time again it is the residents who are
bearing the burden of police and state

1614
02:27:08,240 --> 02:27:14,880
sanctioned violence in our communities.
Another demand that we talked about was

1615
02:27:12,319 --> 02:27:20,080
handing all the evidence over to the
Office of Independent Monitoring so that

1616
02:27:16,960 --> 02:27:24,960
they can can conduct complete and formal
investigations into the misconducts of

1617
02:27:22,720 --> 02:27:29,840
um the Madison police and instead of
pouring millions into state sanctioned

1618
02:27:27,600 --> 02:27:36,319
violence through occupying armies,
investing in community uh community

1619
02:27:33,439 --> 02:27:40,319
care and defunding the police. When we
talk about victim services, when we talk

1620
02:27:38,240 --> 02:27:45,120
about mutual aid, when we talk about
community care, education, housing, all

1621
02:27:43,359 --> 02:27:48,720
of those things that were occurring at
the memorial site, those are

1622
02:27:46,880 --> 02:27:52,880
alternatives to policing that community
is looking for, not state state

1623
02:27:51,200 --> 02:27:57,520
sanctioned violence with the mayor
promotes. And so all of these different

1624
02:27:56,000 --> 02:28:02,720
things, especially when we were here on
April 21st talking about the ordinances

1625
02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:07,760
and they were eventually deferred to the
August 4th meeting, the day y'all so

1626
02:28:04,640 --> 02:28:13,120
violently raided the memorial sites. Um,
we talked, y'all had the opportunity to

1627
02:28:09,920 --> 02:28:17,120
hear directly from community about the
impacts of the Office of Independent

1628
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:21,359
Monitoring, of the impacts of the police
civilian oversight board, what it looks

1629
02:28:19,120 --> 02:28:25,520
like when victim services aren't funded,
when state sanctioned violence is

1630
02:28:22,800 --> 02:28:30,960
funded. instead. All of these things we
predicted long before Corey Ruiz was

1631
02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:36,160
murdered, long before Tony Robinson's
was was murdered. So, I ask y'all, how

1632
02:28:33,840 --> 02:28:41,760
many of our community residents have to
die before y'all strongly consider that

1633
02:28:39,200 --> 02:28:46,319
the decisions that you make are moral
documentations. The budgets that you

1634
02:28:43,680 --> 02:28:50,000
hold are moral documents and they matter
more than your votes. They matter more

1635
02:28:48,160 --> 02:28:53,920
than the press conferences that y'all
do, the interviews that y'all do with

1636
02:28:52,240 --> 02:28:59,359
media outlets instead of going to the
memorial site and actually engaging with

1637
02:28:55,760 --> 02:29:03,439
the people. All of those things. $28,000
is not enough and it will never be

1638
02:29:01,200 --> 02:29:07,319
enough in a world where police and state
sanctioned violence exists.

1639
02:29:07,520 --> 02:29:13,040
» Thank you. I'm just going to check. I I
see you Alder, but I'm just going to

1640
02:29:11,040 --> 02:29:19,880
check one more time if we have Robert
Michael Pets either in the room or

1641
02:29:16,880 --> 02:29:19,880
online.

1642
02:29:20,960 --> 02:29:26,160
Doesn't look
>> I don't see Robert online.

1643
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:30,240
» Okay. Thank you very much. So that is
the last register we have wishing to

1644
02:29:28,000 --> 02:29:36,479
speak. Alder Harrington McKini.
>> Thank you, Madam Mayor. I request a

1645
02:29:32,080 --> 02:29:41,600
recess of five minute, 10 minutes. Uh,
can we see if there are questions

1646
02:29:39,498 --> 02:29:44,399
[snorts] first?
>> Yes.

1647
02:29:42,479 --> 02:29:52,280
» Let's let's just check, Alder. Thank
you. Um, are there questions for any of

1648
02:29:47,040 --> 02:29:52,280
the registrants on item 60?

1649
02:29:53,760 --> 02:30:01,040
Seeing none, then Alder Harrington
McKini moves a 10-minute recess. Is

1650
02:29:58,319 --> 02:30:06,720
there a second? Moved and seconded for a
10-minute recess. Is there any objection

1651
02:30:02,880 --> 02:30:11,280
to recording a unanimous vote in favor
of a 10-minute recess? Seeing no

1652
02:30:08,640 --> 02:30:14,280
objection, let's say we come back at
9:10

1653
02:43:16,479 --> 02:43:25,280
All right, folks.
910 has arrived.

1654
02:43:21,600 --> 02:43:31,200
If I can have the alders on Zoom come
back and turn your cameras on.

1655
02:43:28,080 --> 02:43:34,760
And the alders in the room, please take
your seats again.

1656
02:43:35,288 --> 02:43:37,308
[snorts]

1657
02:43:47,600 --> 02:43:54,600
If I can have the elders in the room,
please take their seats.

1658
02:43:56,800 --> 02:44:07,040
Alder Vier,
Alder Figureroa Cole,

1659
02:44:03,520 --> 02:44:10,600
Alder Martinez Rutherford,
Alder Pritchette.

1660
02:44:24,479 --> 02:44:27,479
6.

1661
02:44:30,240 --> 02:44:38,560
The hour of 9:10 having come and gone by
one minute, I will call the common

1662
02:44:36,319 --> 02:44:45,680
council back to order and ask the clerk
to please call the role.

1663
02:44:42,160 --> 02:44:49,080
» Sorry, Alder Mayor is present.
All in Zoo,

1664
02:44:50,399 --> 02:44:59,600
» can you hear me now?
>> All right.

1665
02:44:55,359 --> 02:45:02,880
Thank you very much. Alden Zu
>> present.

1666
02:45:00,080 --> 02:45:06,080
» You say you're present.
>> Just you can just say it. It's okay.

1667
02:45:05,120 --> 02:45:10,160
» I'm present.
>> Thank you. Alden Zu is present. Aldo

1668
02:45:07,760 --> 02:45:13,520
O'Brien. Albrien is present. Alder
Hovich. Aldovich is present. Alder

1669
02:45:12,319 --> 02:45:17,560
Pritchette. [clears throat] Alder
Pritchette is present. Alder Tishler.

1670
02:45:18,800 --> 02:45:25,040
» Yep, I'm still here.
>> Tishler is present. Alder Ver

1671
02:45:24,319 --> 02:45:27,600
» here.
>> Ver is present. Alder Jang

1672
02:45:27,040 --> 02:45:29,760
» here.
>> Je is present. Alder Evers

1673
02:45:29,439 --> 02:45:32,080
» here.
>> Alder is present. Alderfield

1674
02:45:31,520 --> 02:45:34,399
» here.
>> Field is present. Alder Fig

1675
02:45:33,760 --> 02:45:36,880
» here.
>> Figural is present. Alder Glenn

1676
02:45:36,319 --> 02:45:38,720
» here.
>> Alder Glenn is present. Alder Gar

1677
02:45:38,479 --> 02:45:41,040
» here.
>> Alder Gar is present. Alder Harrington

1678
02:45:40,160 --> 02:45:43,120
McKenna.
>> Alder Haring McKenna is present. Alder

1679
02:45:42,479 --> 02:45:45,439
Linkella
>> here. Ala is present. Alder Lieberman

1680
02:45:45,120 --> 02:45:47,359
» here.
>> Alder Lieberman is present. Alder

1681
02:45:46,880 --> 02:45:50,479
Madison
>> here. Alder Madison is present. Alder

1682
02:45:48,880 --> 02:45:52,880
Martinez Rutherford.
>> Alder Martinez Ruford is present. Alder

1683
02:45:52,160 --> 02:45:55,040
Matthews
>> here.

1684
02:45:53,359 --> 02:46:00,560
» Matthews is present. Mayor Madame Mayor
we have a quorum. [snorts]

1685
02:45:56,800 --> 02:46:03,200
» Thank you. All right.
Our

1686
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:05,520
» apologies. Alder River is present as
well.

1687
02:46:03,920 --> 02:46:12,000
» Thank [snorts] you. [laughter]
Let the record reflect. Uh all right.

1688
02:46:08,160 --> 02:46:17,040
Our first item then to take up is item
four, which is legisar 93802,

1689
02:46:15,359 --> 02:46:22,640
an appeal of the landmarks commission's
approval of a land division at 113 Eli

1690
02:46:20,479 --> 02:46:27,600
Place in the University Heights Historic
District. Um, and on item four, we're

1691
02:46:25,600 --> 02:46:32,000
going to start with an overview from our
planning director. Um, and then we'll go

1692
02:46:29,840 --> 02:46:36,479
to questions for staff. [gasps] Director
Tuttle.

1693
02:46:32,960 --> 02:46:40,640
» All right. Good evening, Alders. Um, I
have the privilege of starting this item

1694
02:46:38,479 --> 02:46:46,399
for you tonight and I get to start with
all of the fun things about um, what are

1695
02:46:43,520 --> 02:46:51,040
you doing with this item? Um, some of
this may sound familiar because we've

1696
02:46:48,240 --> 02:46:56,800
seen a couple of appeals in of various
items at the council over the last

1697
02:46:53,520 --> 02:47:01,359
several months. Um, and I know that we
have a lot of discussion about how to

1698
02:46:58,560 --> 02:47:03,920
help you navigate the specific standards
of the ordinance that you'll be

1699
02:47:02,560 --> 02:47:08,960
reviewing. So, I'm going to start with
just a bit of an overview about that.

1700
02:47:06,560 --> 02:47:15,040
So, for those of you that are may not be
familiar, um this item relates to an

1701
02:47:12,560 --> 02:47:20,880
appeal of the landmarks commission,
specifically to an approval for a land

1702
02:47:17,920 --> 02:47:24,880
division within a historic district.
Throughout this presentation, we are

1703
02:47:22,800 --> 02:47:30,319
probably going to refer to this
application as a certificate of approval

1704
02:47:27,760 --> 02:47:35,200
or a COA.
This approval was issued by the

1705
02:47:32,160 --> 02:47:40,479
landmarks commission to divide Eli Place
into two lots.

1706
02:47:37,520 --> 02:47:44,960
Um, this approval has been appealed by a
neighboring property owner and when

1707
02:47:43,359 --> 02:47:49,680
decisions of the landmarks commission
are appealed, they come to the common

1708
02:47:47,279 --> 02:47:54,240
council for a decision.
In this process, the council will be

1709
02:47:51,600 --> 02:47:59,600
acting as what we call a quasi jud
judicial body. Um, that means that it's

1710
02:47:57,359 --> 02:48:04,479
your job to review the Landmarks
Commission's ordinance and specifically

1711
02:48:02,399 --> 02:48:09,840
the standards that apply to the
application that was made and decide if

1712
02:48:07,520 --> 02:48:13,840
the the outcome of the Landmarks
Commission's action was consistent with

1713
02:48:12,479 --> 02:48:20,399
the standards that they needed to
review. In this case, the standards that

1714
02:48:16,800 --> 02:48:25,040
you will be looking at are under MGO
41.18

1715
02:48:22,399 --> 02:48:30,960
subsection 4. This is for standards of
approval for land divisions.

1716
02:48:28,560 --> 02:48:37,279
The action tonight is not about making
policy or deciding if we like or don't

1717
02:48:34,240 --> 02:48:42,319
like what is proposed before us or
speculating on what might happen on the

1718
02:48:39,439 --> 02:48:47,279
property as a result of any action to
look at this appeal. The council is

1719
02:48:45,120 --> 02:48:51,279
really asked to look directly at the
information about this land division

1720
02:48:49,279 --> 02:48:55,600
that was submitted to the landmarks
commission and make a determination on

1721
02:48:53,600 --> 02:49:01,040
whether they consistently applied the
standards of approval or not.

1722
02:48:59,040 --> 02:49:04,800
Um the preservation planner, Heather
Bailey, here in just a second will

1723
02:49:02,960 --> 02:49:08,640
actually run through a couple of slides
to just make sure that everyone is

1724
02:49:06,399 --> 02:49:13,279
briefed on the issue that the landmarks
commission reviewed as well as the

1725
02:49:11,359 --> 02:49:18,399
standards that are used to make
determinations about land divisions in

1726
02:49:16,399 --> 02:49:22,160
historic districts.
Uh we also have assistant city attorney

1727
02:49:20,640 --> 02:49:27,439
Kate Smith here if you have any
questions about about this ordinance

1728
02:49:24,720 --> 02:49:32,720
about this process appeals and your role
in it. She can help us with those.

1729
02:49:30,720 --> 02:49:38,640
I also want to note that some of you
maybe many of you have received

1730
02:49:34,960 --> 02:49:43,680
communications from uh uh folks that
have an interest in this appeal about

1731
02:49:41,680 --> 02:49:48,240
other things that the property owner may
wish to do with the property. um that is

1732
02:49:46,479 --> 02:49:54,560
also not relevant to tonight's
discussion. If there were to be any

1733
02:49:51,279 --> 02:49:58,640
further uh development or alterations on
either of these properties since they're

1734
02:49:56,399 --> 02:50:02,479
in a historic district, they would be
required to submit applications for that

1735
02:50:00,720 --> 02:50:07,760
work and they would be reviewed under
the standards that apply to whatever

1736
02:50:04,240 --> 02:50:13,359
that work is at that time. We do also
know that this applicant um has not

1737
02:50:10,800 --> 02:50:17,680
submitted the formal application to
divide this land under a different part

1738
02:50:15,600 --> 02:50:22,080
of our ordinance. So, we're not making
decisions on that tonight either. We're

1739
02:50:20,080 --> 02:50:27,359
specifically looking at whether uh the
land division can be approved from a

1740
02:50:23,840 --> 02:50:31,840
historic district perspective.
So, as um as I'm finishing up here, I'll

1741
02:50:30,240 --> 02:50:35,359
just ask Heather to go ahead and pull up
the slides that she's going to share

1742
02:50:33,120 --> 02:50:41,680
with you. Um, after considering the
appeal tonight, you can take any of the

1743
02:50:37,760 --> 02:50:47,760
following actions and um, the council
should state its findings related to a

1744
02:50:44,880 --> 02:50:53,520
motion that it might make. One option
that you can take is to deny this

1745
02:50:50,000 --> 02:50:57,680
appeal. You would take this action if
you find that the landmarks commission

1746
02:50:56,160 --> 02:51:02,640
applied its standards of approval
appropriately and that you agree with

1747
02:50:59,439 --> 02:51:08,640
that that use of their standards.
you could approve the appeal

1748
02:51:05,680 --> 02:51:14,880
um and in approving it either reverse or
somehow modify the landmarks

1749
02:51:10,399 --> 02:51:19,279
commission's denial I uh uh action.
This would be appropriate if you think

1750
02:51:16,960 --> 02:51:23,840
that the landmarks commission errored in
some way in applying its standards to

1751
02:51:21,920 --> 02:51:28,640
this application.
In this case, you should specifically

1752
02:51:26,399 --> 02:51:33,760
site what you found was interpreted or
applied incorrectly.

1753
02:51:31,040 --> 02:51:38,000
And finally, you could also refer it
back to the landmarks commission with

1754
02:51:36,080 --> 02:51:43,439
specific direction on how they should
re-evaluate the application and act. So

1755
02:51:41,439 --> 02:51:47,439
Heather will outline more of the details
about what was proposed here and we'll

1756
02:51:46,080 --> 02:51:54,160
be available to answer any questions
that you have.

1757
02:51:49,359 --> 02:52:00,000
» Okay. U Thank you. Uh put it down over.
Uh so I have a rather confusing drawing

1758
02:51:58,399 --> 02:52:05,200
up here on the screen and I will talk
through some of those details in an

1759
02:52:01,760 --> 02:52:11,040
attempt to make it less confusing. Um so
why we are here. So this is for what uh

1760
02:52:08,960 --> 02:52:14,960
director tal already said an appeal of a
certificate of approval that lame

1761
02:52:12,560 --> 02:52:21,359
commission approved for a
reconfiguration of this property. So,

1762
02:52:18,160 --> 02:52:27,200
the property contained two platted lots
and this little sliver of a third lot.

1763
02:52:24,399 --> 02:52:35,120
Um, and so the final new configuration
would still have two platted lots.

1764
02:52:31,439 --> 02:52:40,160
Um, so what I have up here is on the
left hand side we have the current

1765
02:52:36,800 --> 02:52:44,880
configuration. Um,
and so we have the outline of the

1766
02:52:42,240 --> 02:52:51,279
property in question. um that's uh
addressed as 113 uh Eli Place and um

1767
02:52:50,734 --> 02:52:58,160
[clears throat]
it already has that flag pole that uh

1768
02:52:54,640 --> 02:53:02,880
comes down around another property. On
the right hand side, uh we have [snorts]

1769
02:53:00,640 --> 02:53:07,359
a a drawing that shows the
reconfiguration

1770
02:53:04,560 --> 02:53:12,880
would have all of the buildings on one
lot and then the other lot would be

1771
02:53:10,479 --> 02:53:17,920
vacant. And by vacant I mean it
currently doesn't have any buildings on

1772
02:53:14,319 --> 02:53:23,359
it. Um so right now for the property
lines there are two platted lot lines

1773
02:53:21,120 --> 02:53:27,359
that run through the garage and so you
see that there on the left hand side

1774
02:53:24,880 --> 02:53:32,720
there's a kind of faint out faint
outline there of where the garage is

1775
02:53:29,200 --> 02:53:37,120
that is behind the house. Um, so the
proposal would move that lot line and

1776
02:53:35,760 --> 02:53:41,200
get rid of the little smidgen of the
other one and move it so that it is on

1777
02:53:39,600 --> 02:53:45,680
the other side. So the garage and the
house would be on one property and then

1778
02:53:43,680 --> 02:53:50,560
the other property is currently
undeveloped.

1779
02:53:47,920 --> 02:53:54,800
» I'll just
Thank you, mayor. I'll just briefly

1780
02:53:52,080 --> 02:53:59,439
interject here to say that um the map on
the left that you're looking at includes

1781
02:53:57,520 --> 02:54:03,359
uh both parcels in the way that you
might think about a parcel if you were

1782
02:54:01,200 --> 02:54:07,680
buying a property um what you might see
on your deed if you were to see a map of

1783
02:54:05,600 --> 02:54:12,479
your property that you were purchasing.
It also shows the orange lines that

1784
02:54:10,399 --> 02:54:18,960
represent the way that neighborhoods
were legally basically established. Um

1785
02:54:16,160 --> 02:54:23,840
we call those old platted lines. And in
the case of people applying to the city

1786
02:54:21,120 --> 02:54:28,960
to change the boundaries of property, we
look at both of these types of

1787
02:54:25,600 --> 02:54:33,760
boundaries. And when folks are actually
applying to us to change property

1788
02:54:31,200 --> 02:54:38,560
boundaries, we look at opportunities to
clean up those underlying legal lines

1789
02:54:36,479 --> 02:54:42,240
and make modifications to them to make
them more consistent with uh the

1790
02:54:40,560 --> 02:54:47,359
broader, you know, property that they
may see. So we do look at both of these

1791
02:54:44,960 --> 02:54:52,319
in different city processes. And in the
case of the landmarks commission's

1792
02:54:49,439 --> 02:54:56,640
review of um land divisions and
combinations, we do look at both of

1793
02:54:54,240 --> 02:54:59,640
these patterns of lots in making a
determination.

1794
02:55:00,240 --> 02:55:09,600
Okay. So, uh I'll [laughter] director
Tuttle um talked through the standards

1795
02:55:07,040 --> 02:55:15,200
of approval. Um here they are up on the
screen. And I want to say the the way

1796
02:55:12,319 --> 02:55:20,240
the ordinance uh is written, it's in the
affirmative and that the direction there

1797
02:55:17,920 --> 02:55:26,319
is that the landmarks commission will
approve land divisions and combinations

1798
02:55:23,279 --> 02:55:31,200
unless so there needs to be something
that would prevent the lands commission

1799
02:55:28,880 --> 02:55:35,200
from doing the approval. And so for this
particular uh property, we were looking

1800
02:55:33,040 --> 02:55:39,279
at would it be incompatible with
adjacent lot sizes and lammerous

1801
02:55:37,279 --> 02:55:44,640
commission spent some time talking about
um how you go about assessing what is

1802
02:55:42,080 --> 02:55:50,640
compatible for the adjacent lots and
adjacent lots uh would be those that

1803
02:55:48,000 --> 02:55:55,359
share a property line. So how are we
looking at the ways in which they would

1804
02:55:52,479 --> 02:55:58,880
be compatible? Um and so with that part
of the discussion was they were looking

1805
02:55:56,560 --> 02:56:02,960
at okay so for those adjacent lots what
are the sizes of the properties that are

1806
02:56:00,720 --> 02:56:07,279
touching those lots and they use that as
for looking at how they would judge what

1807
02:56:05,600 --> 02:56:12,640
would be compatible for the adjacent
lots also for that gets more fine

1808
02:56:10,720 --> 02:56:16,399
grained and then we can step back for a
larger perspective or fail to maintain

1809
02:56:14,720 --> 02:56:21,040
the general lot size pattern of the
historic district. So that's looking at

1810
02:56:18,240 --> 02:56:28,240
the history of the development
um in a given historic district and the

1811
02:56:25,600 --> 02:56:33,960
uh history of development in University
Heights has had a lot of changes over

1812
02:56:30,960 --> 02:56:33,960
time.

1813
02:56:34,560 --> 02:56:41,600
Um, one of the things that was brought
up by the appellants was the definition

1814
02:56:38,240 --> 02:56:50,479
of lot and looking at several different
definitions and state statute in uh, MGO

1815
02:56:46,080 --> 02:56:55,439
16 and 28. But the definition that we
have to use for land commission purposes

1816
02:56:53,200 --> 02:57:00,640
is the definition that's in uh, chapter
41 which is the historic preservation

1817
02:56:57,120 --> 02:57:06,000
ordinance. Um, so
what uh uh Megan was talking about

1818
02:57:03,279 --> 02:57:11,520
earlier that we have to look at the
legally platted lots. Yes, there is the

1819
02:57:09,279 --> 02:57:16,319
legal lot of record um which is what
shows up on your property deed. Um but

1820
02:57:14,800 --> 02:57:21,040
the language for this particular
property says that it's got I think it's

1821
02:57:18,479 --> 02:57:27,359
lots one and four and a portion of three
of the rosé replat. Um so yes there is

1822
02:57:25,520 --> 02:57:31,520
the parcel boundary which is the legal
lot of record and then we also have to

1823
02:57:29,600 --> 02:57:37,120
take in consideration
I highlighted the ore up there the uh

1824
02:57:35,040 --> 02:57:41,279
legally recorded plat and so for this
particular property it was the rosé

1825
02:57:38,640 --> 02:57:46,240
replat which was uh recorded a century
ago. Um so I've outlined both of those

1826
02:57:44,479 --> 02:57:52,640
there that we have both of those things
that we have to take a look at

1827
02:57:50,080 --> 02:57:57,840
um for the policy. I want to say the
historic preservation ordinance is about

1828
02:57:55,520 --> 02:58:04,560
sensitively incorporating redevelopment.
It is not a tool for exclusionary

1829
02:58:00,800 --> 02:58:10,000
zoning. Um it is the ways in which these
places change and the divine design

1830
02:58:07,439 --> 02:58:14,720
tools to look at making sure that these
places are able to continue to convey

1831
02:58:12,160 --> 02:58:19,920
their historic associations why they are
significant. Um so all of the work that

1832
02:58:17,600 --> 02:58:23,680
happens at Lammer's Commission is about
reinvestment in these properties and

1833
02:58:21,520 --> 02:58:29,920
redevelopment of these properties. It is
how these places change. Um so with that

1834
02:58:27,760 --> 02:58:34,240
any new construction that may or may not
happen on the vacant area of this

1835
02:58:32,560 --> 02:58:40,080
property would have to meet the
standards for uh new construction for um

1836
02:58:37,680 --> 02:58:43,680
infill in the historic district which is
something that would be um reviewed and

1837
02:58:41,920 --> 02:58:48,880
approved uh by the Lammer's commission
and it's the same set of standards that

1838
02:58:45,520 --> 02:58:55,279
are for everyone.
Okay. So, for council actions, um

1839
02:58:52,960 --> 02:59:00,560
Megan talked through the process, but it
comes down to um you looking at and

1840
02:58:57,680 --> 02:59:05,120
finding if the commission's decision is
uh contrary to the standards for

1841
02:59:02,399 --> 02:59:10,880
approval.
Um so, this is straight from uh my staff

1842
02:59:08,880 --> 02:59:16,399
report and sort of written out here for
possible findings. That's just language

1843
02:59:13,520 --> 02:59:23,200
out there for you. You of course are um
the deciders on this and so um for any

1844
02:59:19,200 --> 02:59:28,800
of the actions uh that you would take um
you need to state your findings your

1845
02:59:26,640 --> 02:59:31,800
reasons for why you are making this
decision

1846
02:59:32,160 --> 02:59:39,040
and I think that goes with oh I had here
for that somebody had asked uh how many

1847
02:59:36,800 --> 02:59:43,680
land divisions happen in the historic
districts the rule for uh lands

1848
02:59:42,080 --> 02:59:46,319
commission approving land divisions and
combinations

1849
02:59:44,880 --> 02:59:50,720
uh was added to the historic
preservation ordinance in 2015. So the

1850
02:59:48,960 --> 02:59:59,840
first year that we started tracking them
was 2016. So you have uh those there of

1851
02:59:56,720 --> 03:00:03,760
the well I will say that one in 2022 the
one no ended up coming back in with a uh

1852
03:00:02,479 --> 03:00:09,279
reconfiguration that landmarks
commission approved. So one of those

1853
03:00:05,760 --> 03:00:13,120
kind of gets uh double counted. Um, but
this doesn't happen with great

1854
03:00:10,880 --> 03:00:22,000
frequency, but it is something that
happens nearly every year. Um, and since

1855
03:00:17,279 --> 03:00:27,439
2016, uh, we have had two appeals of,
uh, land divisions and combinations in

1856
03:00:24,399 --> 03:00:30,439
the historic districts.
Okay,

1857
03:00:31,760 --> 03:00:39,359
» I'm done.
Okay, thank you both. Are there

1858
03:00:36,319 --> 03:00:43,279
questions for staff?
>> Alder Okovitz.

1859
03:00:41,040 --> 03:00:47,920
» Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, uh,
preservation planner Bailey. Um, I was

1860
03:00:45,760 --> 03:00:52,000
wondering if you could talk a bit about,
um, the landmark's discussion around

1861
03:00:50,640 --> 03:00:53,920
compatibility.
>> Sure.

1862
03:00:52,319 --> 03:00:59,680
» Um, and what that means.
>> Sure. Um, so the language in the

1863
03:00:57,200 --> 03:01:04,399
preservation ordinance talks about if it
is incompatible, but it doesn't define

1864
03:01:02,080 --> 03:01:11,120
how you go about assessing
compatibility. And that is because every

1865
03:01:07,279 --> 03:01:17,120
property is different. Um and so you
need to look at, pardon the phrase, the

1866
03:01:14,000 --> 03:01:23,279
lay of the land. Um for a particular
situation, um different blocks in all of

1867
03:01:21,120 --> 03:01:28,640
our historic districts have developed in
different ways. So what is compatible in

1868
03:01:26,319 --> 03:01:33,359
this part of University Heights is going
to be very different from so this area.

1869
03:01:32,000 --> 03:01:37,760
Well, what I said at the meeting was
there's a lot of swoopiness going on.

1870
03:01:35,200 --> 03:01:42,160
You have more curve linear streets and
very oddly shaped properties. Whereas

1871
03:01:40,319 --> 03:01:46,399
there, if you get around to the edges of
University Heights, it is much more of a

1872
03:01:44,479 --> 03:01:51,040
traditional grid pattern. The way you
would look at what is compatible in the

1873
03:01:48,880 --> 03:01:56,080
more traditional grid pattern is going
to be very different for how you're

1874
03:01:52,720 --> 03:02:00,399
looking at compatible sizes um in this
area that is very swoopy.

1875
03:01:59,439 --> 03:02:06,920
» Thank you.
>> You're welcome.

1876
03:02:02,720 --> 03:02:06,920
Thank you, Alder. Alder Liberman,

1877
03:02:08,800 --> 03:02:14,560
» don't don't press it once.
>> I was just waiting for it. I actually

1878
03:02:12,880 --> 03:02:20,640
I'm just look thinking about I think
that answers my question as well.

1879
03:02:16,399 --> 03:02:26,800
» Thank you, Alder. Uh Alder Vidver,
>> thank you. Um Director Bailey, uh I'm

1880
03:02:24,160 --> 03:02:31,120
going to ask you to one more time
revisit the question of lot versus plat.

1881
03:02:29,760 --> 03:02:41,120
I know you explain it and you explain it
quite well, but I want you to um try to

1882
03:02:36,960 --> 03:02:48,560
um help us through the the appalance
argument and their concerns about the

1883
03:02:43,600 --> 03:02:52,800
lot versus plat issue and how you have
kind of helped to guide us in our

1884
03:02:50,399 --> 03:02:59,760
decision-m about that.
>> Let me reshare and get back to Oh, come

1885
03:02:57,120 --> 03:03:05,920
on.
the definition. Okay, so

1886
03:03:03,680 --> 03:03:10,399
the lot, sorry, I'm going to read words
that are up on a screen. I apologize.

1887
03:03:07,680 --> 03:03:13,840
Um, lots mean a tract of land and so
designated by meets and bounds, land

1888
03:03:11,760 --> 03:03:19,120
survey, minor land division. Those are
the things that are recorded in the

1889
03:03:16,560 --> 03:03:26,800
property deed of and so what you are
selling um and then what you own. But

1890
03:03:23,600 --> 03:03:32,240
also these
properties there is a legally recorded

1891
03:03:29,760 --> 03:03:39,120
plat which is the layout of the
properties um for an area. So uh to

1892
03:03:36,080 --> 03:03:42,399
separate out uh about lots for something
that would come to plan commission and

1893
03:03:40,560 --> 03:03:47,840
that's plan works commission for let's
say somebody is creating a new

1894
03:03:44,800 --> 03:03:51,279
neighborhood you would plat out the
neighborhood. That means you would

1895
03:03:49,439 --> 03:03:56,800
establish what we call a certified
survey map that would lay out the lots

1896
03:03:54,160 --> 03:04:00,800
in a given neighborhood. But the thing
is after that for how people deal with

1897
03:03:58,880 --> 03:04:07,520
the lots, maybe they buy two right next
to each other and they convey those as a

1898
03:04:04,000 --> 03:04:13,439
single transaction. Um for if you were
going to build something that would

1899
03:04:09,120 --> 03:04:16,720
cross those lot lines, building uh code
won't allow you to build a building that

1900
03:04:15,279 --> 03:04:21,520
crosses a property line. So you would
need to dissolve that. So you would need

1901
03:04:18,080 --> 03:04:26,880
to come back in for legally dissolving
that property line. All of these lines

1902
03:04:24,000 --> 03:04:33,760
are imaginary. You don't see them um in
person, but they are that's why we have

1903
03:04:29,279 --> 03:04:40,240
these recorded maps and properties. Um
so we have to look at both what is

1904
03:04:37,359 --> 03:04:48,160
legally platted, planned out for the
development and also what is the reality

1905
03:04:43,279 --> 03:04:55,040
of the lands that are being transacted.
Does that answer your question?

1906
03:04:50,880 --> 03:05:00,640
» Yeah. Yes. I just was trying to get to
um right the the confusion over lat and

1907
03:04:59,040 --> 03:05:06,800
plat
um and it is a confusion that is common

1908
03:05:03,840 --> 03:05:11,600
and we heard it from the appalance and
we heard it at the landmarks commission

1909
03:05:08,399 --> 03:05:15,520
meeting as well. Um and I in fact I
asked you there right are we talking

1910
03:05:13,200 --> 03:05:21,200
about a lot or a plat and you said yes.
>> Yes. Um, and so I think you've you've

1911
03:05:17,840 --> 03:05:25,520
well described the challenges of these
spaces and so I just wanted it to be

1912
03:05:22,960 --> 03:05:28,640
reiterated um because not everybody may
have

1913
03:05:27,040 --> 03:05:35,200
been as involved in this as I have.
>> Yes, ma'am. And uh for

1914
03:05:32,399 --> 03:05:38,720
for the city's purposes well so I'm down
in the basement of the MMB. So for

1915
03:05:37,120 --> 03:05:42,319
planning and building division uh
building inspection, we were talking

1916
03:05:40,080 --> 03:05:46,640
about that this is an ongoing challenge.
This is a challenge that uh the

1917
03:05:44,800 --> 03:05:51,920
development planners face with where we
talk about where these underlying uh

1918
03:05:48,720 --> 03:05:55,760
unresolved lot lines and you know people
aren't necessarily seeing that. It's

1919
03:05:53,920 --> 03:05:58,720
also a difficulty for zoning where we
talk about the well like you'll need to

1920
03:05:57,040 --> 03:06:04,160
deal something with this underlying lot
line. Um but we didn't have a way for

1921
03:06:02,160 --> 03:06:10,399
people to see that. So the maps that are
up here are actually from the new

1922
03:06:06,160 --> 03:06:14,319
public's facing um GIS application for
people to be able to see what is

1923
03:06:12,479 --> 03:06:19,520
actually going on with their properties.
And it was this project where I went to

1924
03:06:17,120 --> 03:06:23,520
our GIS folks and said, "Can we make
something that is available for the

1925
03:06:21,120 --> 03:06:28,319
public to see?" So it's not just people
show up and I say, "Take my word. There

1926
03:06:25,840 --> 03:06:32,160
is this plat that you need to go find
that here are these lines and I can see

1927
03:06:30,080 --> 03:06:37,120
it on my side, but you can't see it on
your side." That's not that is not the

1928
03:06:34,640 --> 03:06:42,880
way to proceed. So, this is now
available um up publicly so people can

1929
03:06:40,160 --> 03:06:50,880
turn on the platted lot lines and so you
can see the platted lot lines on your

1930
03:06:45,600 --> 03:06:55,359
own and not go and do in-depth research
at the register of deeds to find out uh

1931
03:06:53,200 --> 03:07:00,319
what the platted lot lines are uh for
your property

1932
03:06:57,359 --> 03:07:06,080
or take uh staff giving you a screenshot
of what they're showing from uh city

1933
03:07:02,319 --> 03:07:10,960
internal GIS. us
in an effort to try to provide a little

1934
03:07:08,080 --> 03:07:15,640
bit more clarity for folks.
>> Thank you, Alder Jean.

1935
03:07:16,160 --> 03:07:22,800
» Oh,
hold on. There you go.

1936
03:07:20,240 --> 03:07:29,120
» Okay. Um, one of the speakers tonight
mentioned that this area, the new

1937
03:07:27,200 --> 03:07:37,840
smaller
lot would has been undeveloped for a

1938
03:07:33,920 --> 03:07:44,080
very long time. Um, [snorts] is what is
the intent? Number one, what is the

1939
03:07:39,840 --> 03:07:46,960
intent behind dividing it into two lots?
>> So, that isn't something we can take

1940
03:07:45,600 --> 03:07:49,359
into consideration.
>> Okay.

1941
03:07:47,359 --> 03:07:54,319
» Um, the what are you going to do with
it? We we don't have that lamer

1942
03:07:52,399 --> 03:07:57,920
commission doesn't have the right to ask
that. Okay.

1943
03:07:55,200 --> 03:08:02,640
» Um and even if that came in, our
standards of approval are about the lot

1944
03:07:59,920 --> 03:08:08,080
configurations. They're not about what
are you going to use it for? Um for the

1945
03:08:05,359 --> 03:08:11,439
what are you going to use it for? If
they're going to construct something on

1946
03:08:09,840 --> 03:08:15,520
this, then it would need to come in for
a certificate of approval for whatever

1947
03:08:12,960 --> 03:08:22,160
it is they're going to construct. Um but
these are these are separated. The land

1948
03:08:20,080 --> 03:08:25,120
reconfiguration is strictly about the
standards for looking at the land

1949
03:08:23,520 --> 03:08:27,680
configuration.
>> Okay. Thank you.

1950
03:08:26,160 --> 03:08:32,800
» You're welcome.
>> Thank you. Alder Alder Pritchette.

1951
03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:38,640
» Could you put the options up there
again? The ones where we could either

1952
03:08:35,359 --> 03:08:41,760
accept the appeal, deny the appeal, and
or the third of which was to

1953
03:08:40,080 --> 03:08:47,920
re-evaluate.
>> Could you put those options up here?

1954
03:08:45,359 --> 03:08:51,680
So the the options are that you can deny
the appeal if you found that the

1955
03:08:49,920 --> 03:08:57,520
landmarks commission complied with the
standards of approval. You could approve

1956
03:08:54,560 --> 03:09:02,479
the appeal if you thought that they um
incorrectly interpreted those standards

1957
03:08:59,680 --> 03:09:06,160
or incorrectly applied them somehow. Or
you could refer it back to the landmarks

1958
03:09:04,479 --> 03:09:11,920
commission with some kind of specific
direction about how to re-evaluate.

1959
03:09:08,960 --> 03:09:20,279
So my question is this. Is there a
portion of number three that's embedded

1960
03:09:16,640 --> 03:09:20,279
in number one?

1961
03:09:21,040 --> 03:09:29,920
» No. Um I believe and and attorney Hos
can weigh in here or assistant attorney

1962
03:09:27,439 --> 03:09:35,840
Smith can weigh in here. Um I believe if
you take action on number one um the

1963
03:09:33,120 --> 03:09:41,680
appeal has been decided and the
appellant's option at that point would

1964
03:09:37,680 --> 03:09:46,240
be to appeal it to court. Um that would
be considered a final action. So you

1965
03:09:43,600 --> 03:09:51,040
can't do number three and number one
together. I think if you had a concern

1966
03:09:48,560 --> 03:09:56,319
that something had not been approve uh
reviewed sufficiently, you would use

1967
03:09:54,240 --> 03:09:59,680
option three and send it back to the
landmarks commission with some direction

1968
03:09:58,080 --> 03:10:03,840
about what you need them to look at
again.

1969
03:10:01,279 --> 03:10:07,800
» Thank you.
>> Thank you, Alder. Alder Tishler.

1970
03:10:07,920 --> 03:10:15,040
» Yeah, I I have a a question for uh for
uh Heather [clears throat] Bailey. Um,

1971
03:10:12,880 --> 03:10:19,359
do we know historically how we kind of
got to this point with the parcel with

1972
03:10:17,200 --> 03:10:23,279
the uh the configuration especially I'm
thinking mainly that that kind of sliver

1973
03:10:21,359 --> 03:10:29,840
that that hangs down
>> to an adjacent street.

1974
03:10:25,520 --> 03:10:34,479
» So that is from the Rosé replat. Um why
rolatted

1975
03:10:31,840 --> 03:10:39,120
it that way I I don't know. We don't
have any language that says why he

1976
03:10:37,200 --> 03:10:44,479
decided to configure uh those properties
the way that he did. Um,

1977
03:10:42,240 --> 03:10:47,600
so yeah, it's been that way for more
than a century

1978
03:10:46,240 --> 03:10:50,319
» or maybe a little less than a century
about

1979
03:10:49,279 --> 03:10:54,479
» Go ahead.
>> So, so it was like a path there or

1980
03:10:52,319 --> 03:10:59,680
something that somebody wanted to keep
shortcut to get to their property.

1981
03:10:57,840 --> 03:11:02,399
» Although that would be speculation on my
part. I don't know.

1982
03:11:00,640 --> 03:11:06,319
» Okay. I'm just it's just just curious
looking back historically at the

1983
03:11:03,600 --> 03:11:09,359
cultural landscape. But, um, my
follow-up question then is regarding

1984
03:11:07,920 --> 03:11:14,240
because it looks like a flag lot, which
is which I understand is a relatively

1985
03:11:11,279 --> 03:11:18,000
new zoning for the city, but but are
there any other examples in the historic

1986
03:11:16,080 --> 03:11:22,560
district of a flag lot?
>> Um,

1987
03:11:20,160 --> 03:11:26,640
not really. Um, let me get back up to
because you can kind of see. Okay, so

1988
03:11:24,640 --> 03:11:30,800
over on the far left side, if you go
across Elely Place, you can see there's

1989
03:11:28,960 --> 03:11:36,319
a little bit of a flag lot, but it's not
a flag lot going out to the street. um

1990
03:11:34,080 --> 03:11:41,279
it's going out towards the back and I
believe that one's for uh connecting to

1991
03:11:38,960 --> 03:11:47,439
a shared driveway because there's not an
easy way to get to driveways. So,

1992
03:11:44,720 --> 03:11:54,399
this particular historic district has
very oddly shaped properties. Um there

1993
03:11:50,800 --> 03:12:00,880
are no other ones in University Heights
that have a flag lot that goes out to

1994
03:11:57,040 --> 03:12:08,920
the street. Having said that, this land
division would not create the flag lot.

1995
03:12:04,640 --> 03:12:08,920
The flag lot is already there.

1996
03:12:12,640 --> 03:12:21,200
» I guess last one is is within the is is
it looking at the reading the report

1997
03:12:16,720 --> 03:12:27,120
there is it is this this uh do if if
divided is it less than 40% of the

1998
03:12:24,640 --> 03:12:31,840
average size of the adjacent lots? Is
that is that accurate?

1999
03:12:30,080 --> 03:12:37,439
» So again, it depends on how you
configure. Um because if we're looking

2000
03:12:34,319 --> 03:12:42,880
at the platted lots, no. Um if we're
looking at the legal lots of record, so

2001
03:12:39,520 --> 03:12:47,600
what is the parcels? Then yes, there is
um some variation in size there. But

2002
03:12:45,840 --> 03:12:52,720
then looking at the
>> okay so for the way landlords commission

2003
03:12:49,520 --> 03:12:59,359
looked at the compatibility they looked
at the properties that share a lot line

2004
03:12:55,520 --> 03:13:04,160
with the proposed properties that we're
talking about reconfiguring and so with

2005
03:13:01,840 --> 03:13:08,399
that for what is compatible in terms of
the size lammerous commission looked at

2006
03:13:06,800 --> 03:13:13,359
okay well what are the properties that
are touching these properties and

2007
03:13:11,120 --> 03:13:19,359
looking at the configuration all around
um you can see there's two tiny little

2008
03:13:16,399 --> 03:13:24,240
postage stamp size lots over there on
the far side of this uh block right on

2009
03:13:22,080 --> 03:13:33,359
the opposite side of uh one of the
adjacent there. There is a mix of sizes.

2010
03:13:27,760 --> 03:13:38,880
Um the parcels that are on this half of
the block

2011
03:13:35,680 --> 03:13:44,960
tend to be larger, but we also have
again the platted underlying lot lines.

2012
03:13:42,239 --> 03:13:50,640
um
that legally could be divided down. So

2013
03:13:48,720 --> 03:13:54,239
we have to look at all of the
configuration there.

2014
03:13:52,479 --> 03:14:00,640
» But but in a previous slide you had
language saying uh like parcel or

2015
03:13:59,760 --> 03:14:05,760
» oh
>> or lot. Oh yeah, there we go. Not not

2016
03:14:03,840 --> 03:14:09,439
andor but I mean is it so when the
landmarks commission was looking at this

2017
03:14:07,120 --> 03:14:13,600
what which which were they looking at?
>> They're looking at all of it. Hence the

2018
03:14:11,760 --> 03:14:17,760
when when Alder Vidiver asked the
question at Lammer's commission of are

2019
03:14:15,439 --> 03:14:22,720
you looking at the uh plat or are you
looking at uh the legal lot of record my

2020
03:14:20,239 --> 03:14:26,479
answer was yes we are looking at both we
have to

2021
03:14:24,319 --> 03:14:32,080
» okay so so either either one of them can
be correct or both of them be correct

2022
03:14:29,279 --> 03:14:40,479
» we have to deal with both of them
>> okay all right no further questions

2023
03:14:37,279 --> 03:14:48,920
» thank you alder Alder Vidver
I'm sorry. I'm going to belabor this a

2024
03:14:42,080 --> 03:14:48,920
little bit more. Um, plat, parcel, lot.

2025
03:14:49,265 --> 03:15:00,080
[snorts] Can you So, this says lot or
plat. And so, where does parcel come in?

2026
03:14:56,800 --> 03:15:03,840
So, it's not in there because um parcel
is a tax designation. And it is

2027
03:15:02,000 --> 03:15:13,200
something that um the assessor's office
does and it may or may not relate to um

2028
03:15:09,920 --> 03:15:18,319
what is included uh for the uh lots of
record. It can be larger, it can be

2029
03:15:14,800 --> 03:15:24,960
smaller and that can change
through the assessor's process, but that

2030
03:15:21,600 --> 03:15:29,840
for the parcel size and configuration
that isn't governed by anything that the

2031
03:15:28,239 --> 03:15:34,960
planning division handles that is
handled by the assessor's office. So,

2032
03:15:32,080 --> 03:15:41,120
the parcel
tends to also be the legal lot of record

2033
03:15:38,239 --> 03:15:47,279
for what is recorded at um in the Dane
County register of deeds, but not

2034
03:15:43,040 --> 03:15:51,920
always. And people can change the parcel
configuration

2035
03:15:48,960 --> 03:15:58,239
and it doesn't require any approvals
from the planning division um from that

2036
03:15:54,399 --> 03:16:03,359
side of the shop for the city.
And then I'm going to go back and

2037
03:16:00,479 --> 03:16:12,319
blabber the adjacent again. I'm sorry.
Can you go back to the um maps and just

2038
03:16:07,520 --> 03:16:17,035
show um so the adjacent
lots I think I'm going to I'm very

2039
03:16:15,279 --> 03:16:21,359
confused about lots and plats myself.
[laughter]

2040
03:16:17,600 --> 03:16:28,960
Um but the adjacent lots I believe um
the one that is due north of what is the

2041
03:16:25,600 --> 03:16:32,720
current garage at 113 Ele and the one
that is due east of the proposed flag

2042
03:16:31,600 --> 03:16:38,080
lot.
>> How what is the size of those compared

2043
03:16:34,880 --> 03:16:40,800
to the proposed new lot?
>> Can you just remind us?

2044
03:16:39,439 --> 03:16:44,239
» I do not remember off the top of my
head. That was in my slide for Lammer's

2045
03:16:42,880 --> 03:16:49,840
commission and I apologize I don't have
that pulled up.

2046
03:16:46,239 --> 03:16:54,160
» That's okay. Um, but like that I I
believe that's what landmarks was

2047
03:16:52,720 --> 03:16:58,800
looking at. Is that correct? That that
that they found that those were they

2048
03:16:56,560 --> 03:17:01,840
were adjacent and that they were
compatible. Is that do I have the right

2049
03:17:01,120 --> 03:17:07,319
recollection?
>> That is correct.

2050
03:17:03,680 --> 03:17:07,319
» Okay. Thank you.

2051
03:17:07,680 --> 03:17:14,160
Thank you, Alder.
I have no other alers in the Oh, Alder

2052
03:17:12,239 --> 03:17:18,439
Figuro.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um,

2053
03:17:18,720 --> 03:17:27,279
I forgot your name.
>> Heather, thank you. Um, Heather Bailey,

2054
03:17:24,399 --> 03:17:31,040
sorry. Um,
so I I you answer all the questions that

2055
03:17:29,279 --> 03:17:35,680
I I was going to ask. So thank you for
the presentation. But can you repeat

2056
03:17:33,600 --> 03:17:42,160
again
what uh when you were talking about the

2057
03:17:38,160 --> 03:17:48,000
2015 work and how this work is our job
is to make these not to be exclusionary

2058
03:17:44,560 --> 03:17:52,319
on these on this um process but to
actually promote the protection of the

2059
03:17:50,080 --> 03:17:56,080
landmark as the as well as in field. Can
you please repeat those words because I

2060
03:17:54,080 --> 03:18:02,239
struggle with
I struggle with the expectation that is

2061
03:17:59,520 --> 03:18:08,640
out there about what these ordinances
are about. Can you please repeat exactly

2062
03:18:04,800 --> 03:18:15,359
what the work of that you guys did to um
update the ordinances actually means

2063
03:18:11,680 --> 03:18:21,279
when it comes to um line divisions such
as this one? Sure. So

2064
03:18:19,439 --> 03:18:28,640
the regulatory side of the work that
Lammer's commission does is about

2065
03:18:23,920 --> 03:18:37,760
conserving these resources for
the general public. It is not just for

2066
03:18:32,880 --> 03:18:41,200
the folks who own those properties. Um
with the uh you're going to hear me say

2067
03:18:39,520 --> 03:18:46,960
this again for the next project as well.
with the uh historic preservation plan.

2068
03:18:43,600 --> 03:18:52,000
We were looking at the state of the our
historic preservation program after 50

2069
03:18:49,120 --> 03:18:55,920
years and we found that it was not
particularly equitable. We had been

2070
03:18:53,760 --> 03:19:01,120
telling a very white male and wealthy
story and that is not telling a complete

2071
03:18:58,239 --> 03:19:05,920
history of the city of Madison. Um, so
we are looking at how can we go about

2072
03:19:03,439 --> 03:19:11,920
being more equitable in how we do
historic preservation of the stuff that

2073
03:19:08,560 --> 03:19:16,880
we already have designated. It is for
all of the people of Madison, not just

2074
03:19:14,880 --> 03:19:20,720
for those who live there. I super
appreciate the people who live there and

2075
03:19:18,560 --> 03:19:25,600
continue to invest in those properties.
Um,

2076
03:19:22,960 --> 03:19:30,319
but it is not a historic preservation is
not a tool for exclusionary zoning. It

2077
03:19:27,600 --> 03:19:34,800
is not a tool to stop development or
keep development out. It is a tool for

2078
03:19:33,040 --> 03:19:39,359
making sure that the ways in which we
are changing these places that they are

2079
03:19:37,520 --> 03:19:44,960
still able to convey their historic
associations. And I talk about historic

2080
03:19:43,040 --> 03:19:48,800
preservation not as a tool for
placemaking. We talk a lot about well in

2081
03:19:47,520 --> 03:19:54,239
plane division we like to do lots of
placemaking activities. But historic

2082
03:19:50,960 --> 03:19:59,040
preservation for me is a mechanism for
place knowing. These stories are already

2083
03:19:56,319 --> 03:20:02,960
there. That is our connection to the
past. It is our connection to the

2084
03:20:00,880 --> 03:20:09,439
present, for the stories that we tell,
for the people who we are. And also, it

2085
03:20:05,600 --> 03:20:14,160
is something that we as a city by uh
putting a local historic designation on

2086
03:20:11,279 --> 03:20:20,080
these places, we are conserving them for
future generations of people um to again

2087
03:20:18,319 --> 03:20:25,439
continue to tell the story of who we are
as Madison. So with that, the standards

2088
03:20:23,680 --> 03:20:29,359
that we have in place are meant to be
fair and equitable for everybody and

2089
03:20:27,279 --> 03:20:32,239
accessible for everybody. They are not
tools for keeping people out of a

2090
03:20:30,960 --> 03:20:38,800
neighborhood.
>> Thank you. If you don't have anyone on

2091
03:20:34,640 --> 03:20:42,560
the queue, I'll ready for a motion.
>> Uh we do have one other question in the

2092
03:20:40,800 --> 03:20:45,760
queue. Alder
uh Alder Tishler,

2093
03:20:44,080 --> 03:20:52,000
» just out of curiosity, the the the
little sliver that's on the Summit

2094
03:20:47,840 --> 03:20:52,000
Avenue, how how wide is that?

2095
03:20:52,080 --> 03:20:58,560
Um, one of the
one of the pieces of feedback that we

2096
03:20:56,239 --> 03:21:02,239
gave them was that for uh when they come
in for the certified survey map to plan

2097
03:21:00,479 --> 03:21:08,160
commission, they need to show dimensions
for um how wide it is all the way across

2098
03:21:05,680 --> 03:21:12,479
for what the street frontage is. I want
to say it's 15 feet.

2099
03:21:11,600 --> 03:21:17,359
» It's closer to 10.
>> Is it closer to 10? Um, but they need to

2100
03:21:15,120 --> 03:21:20,640
show for the certified survey map. uh if
and when that goes uh to plan

2101
03:21:19,120 --> 03:21:27,880
commission, they need to show the
dimension across that sliver that comes

2102
03:21:24,000 --> 03:21:27,880
down the flag pole area.

2103
03:21:28,239 --> 03:21:37,840
» Okay. So, we don't So, so Alder Vidir
was was shaking down your head that it

2104
03:21:34,640 --> 03:21:40,399
was closer to 10. So, so it's 10. So,
okay.

2105
03:21:39,120 --> 03:21:43,200
» So, just it just
>> we're not creating that that's already

2106
03:21:42,000 --> 03:21:47,120
there,
>> right? Right. But if we're creating a

2107
03:21:44,560 --> 03:21:52,000
space that So we're creating a space
that that most likely will cannot be

2108
03:21:49,040 --> 03:21:58,640
used for development.
>> Right. So um

2109
03:21:53,359 --> 03:22:02,640
» Okay. If if the uh appeal is denied
tonight and this land division is

2110
03:22:00,479 --> 03:22:07,920
allowed to proceed, the next thing that
the applicant would need to do is to

2111
03:22:05,279 --> 03:22:11,840
actually submit an application through
what is called a certified survey map,

2112
03:22:09,840 --> 03:22:16,399
which is our technical process that
deals with land divisions. And that

2113
03:22:14,160 --> 03:22:21,920
would include verifying that all of the
requirements for how big this property

2114
03:22:19,279 --> 03:22:26,080
needs to be to meet the zoning code, how
wide parts of it need to be in,

2115
03:22:24,239 --> 03:22:31,040
including in this case to meet the
definition of that deep residential lot

2116
03:22:27,920 --> 03:22:34,800
or flag lot of those specific
requirements can be met, including the

2117
03:22:33,040 --> 03:22:39,279
width of that section that meets the
street.

2118
03:22:36,319 --> 03:22:42,720
» Okay. And then Okay. All right. Thank
you.

2119
03:22:40,640 --> 03:22:51,920
» Thank you, Alder.
I have no other

2120
03:22:45,920 --> 03:22:55,840
alers in the queue for a motion.
Other

2121
03:22:53,680 --> 03:23:00,760
Figuro Cole,
>> I move that we um

2122
03:23:02,000 --> 03:23:08,239
Okay.
Um

2123
03:23:06,000 --> 03:23:11,680
Heather, I wrote the the line here, but
can you please bring that up again?

2124
03:23:09,520 --> 03:23:16,239
Thank you.
I move that we deny the appeal based on

2125
03:23:14,080 --> 03:23:21,680
the Landmarks Commission's decision
complied with the standard of approvals

2126
03:23:18,479 --> 03:23:26,960
for this property. Second
motion and a second to deny the appeal.

2127
03:23:24,800 --> 03:23:30,399
Uh Alder Figuro, do you wish to speak to
it?

2128
03:23:28,399 --> 03:23:36,640
» No, I think I I mean I don't know if
anyone had the chance to to watch the

2129
03:23:33,920 --> 03:23:42,479
um LM Mars Commission meeting, but I did
and the discussion there was pretty

2130
03:23:39,200 --> 03:23:49,040
robust. Um
yeah, I don't I don't think under the

2131
03:23:44,239 --> 03:23:54,640
current um ordinances we are we had the
information of the validation to deny to

2132
03:23:52,640 --> 03:23:59,200
um
to not allow for the line to happen. So

2133
03:23:57,600 --> 03:24:04,359
that's all I got.
>> Thank you, Alder. Alder Okowitz.

2134
03:24:06,479 --> 03:24:12,160
There you go.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um,

2135
03:24:10,479 --> 03:24:18,720
yes, we talked about it a lot. It was
talked about at Landmarks, but um, it

2136
03:24:14,560 --> 03:24:23,279
seems like the lot, the new lot size is
clearly compatible with the adjacent lot

2137
03:24:20,720 --> 03:24:27,520
sizes, and
it maintains the general lot size

2138
03:24:26,239 --> 03:24:32,560
pattern of the historic district. I
mean, there are lots of the same size

2139
03:24:29,520 --> 03:24:37,520
all over. Uh as preservation planner
Bailey mentioned, this is part of a

2140
03:24:34,800 --> 03:24:42,000
pattern of University Heights having a
lot of lot divisions and combinations.

2141
03:24:39,680 --> 03:24:48,560
Um and when we consider not just the
current lots but also the historic plats

2142
03:24:44,160 --> 03:24:53,520
or the current plat um it still manages
to maintain that uh general pattern. So

2143
03:24:51,520 --> 03:25:00,399
thank you.
>> Thank you Alder Alder Vidver.

2144
03:24:57,600 --> 03:25:06,080
» Thank you. Um, so I want to say that I
am deeply sympathetic to the neighbors

2145
03:25:04,000 --> 03:25:11,279
who have stood up for their
neighborhood. They love their

2146
03:25:07,600 --> 03:25:18,399
neighborhood and they um want to see its
histo preserved. Um, and many of their

2147
03:25:15,040 --> 03:25:23,279
concerns are very much centered on what
could be built on this site. Um, that is

2148
03:25:21,279 --> 03:25:28,560
not the situation that is before us
today. Um, I do have deep concerns about

2149
03:25:26,560 --> 03:25:35,359
whether something can be built on this
site should the uh applicant wish to try

2150
03:25:32,720 --> 03:25:42,560
to build on the site. Um, and would make
those concerns known at landmarks and

2151
03:25:38,800 --> 03:25:48,560
other spaces. Um, but we are asking we
are being asked to interpret the

2152
03:25:44,239 --> 03:25:52,880
ordinance as it stands today. Um, and
very frankly, I think the ordinance is

2153
03:25:50,319 --> 03:25:55,120
in need of an update. And I am very much
interested in working with our

2154
03:25:53,920 --> 03:26:00,640
preservation planner and planning
director on doing that because

2155
03:25:57,279 --> 03:26:06,800
unfortunately these issues of what does
compatible mean and what does lot or

2156
03:26:03,040 --> 03:26:11,920
parcel or plot mean keep coming up. And
so in my mind, I think it's incumbent

2157
03:26:09,279 --> 03:26:16,880
upon us to work on making the ordinance
clearer for everyone's sake. But that's

2158
03:26:15,520 --> 03:26:23,040
not what we have right now. We have the
ordinance in front of us right now. Um,

2159
03:26:19,279 --> 03:26:27,040
and I do believe and I have I have
appreciated the landmarks commission and

2160
03:26:24,640 --> 03:26:33,680
their work. Um, and believe that they
have made the correct decision again on

2161
03:26:29,600 --> 03:26:40,640
just the lot division. It really will be
a stretch I believe for anyone to build

2162
03:26:36,160 --> 03:26:43,920
on this lot. Um, and again I will um be
very involved in any conversations

2163
03:26:42,560 --> 03:26:49,840
around that. But that is not what is
before us today. It is it is simply the

2164
03:26:45,680 --> 03:26:55,760
lot division. Thank you.
>> Thank you Alder.

2165
03:26:51,920 --> 03:27:03,359
I have no other alders
in the queue wishing to speak. Um so the

2166
03:26:59,359 --> 03:27:08,880
motion is to deny the appeal. It's been
properly seconded.

2167
03:27:06,720 --> 03:27:15,120
Is there
objection to recording a unanimous vote

2168
03:27:12,960 --> 03:27:19,200
in favor [snorts] of that emot of that
motion? Alder Pritchette.

2169
03:27:17,920 --> 03:27:23,279
» Yes. [snorts]
>> All right. Thank you, Alder. Um, seeing

2170
03:27:21,520 --> 03:27:29,600
that there's objection, Alder Tishler, I
assume you're objecting as well. Uh, so

2171
03:27:25,760 --> 03:27:37,840
we'll have a roll call vote. The motion
is to deny the appeal of the landmarks

2172
03:27:33,520 --> 03:27:43,520
decision. All those in favor of denial
I. Those opposed to denial, no. As your

2173
03:27:42,000 --> 03:27:47,120
name is called and the clerk will please
call the role.

2174
03:27:44,640 --> 03:27:51,960
» Thank you on the dial. Alder mayor.
>> Alder mayor I. Alder Enzo.

2175
03:27:53,520 --> 03:27:59,359
» Enzo stains. Alder O'Brien.
>> I.

2176
03:27:56,720 --> 03:28:05,840
» O'Brien. I Alder Ohich.
>> Oh I. Alder Pritchette.

2177
03:28:02,800 --> 03:28:09,520
» Alder Pritchette. No Alder Tishler.
>> Uh, no

2178
03:28:06,800 --> 03:28:13,040
» Alder Tishler. No Alder.
>> Alder. I Alder Vidver.

2179
03:28:12,399 --> 03:28:15,920
» I
>> Alder Viver. I Alder Evers.

2180
03:28:15,439 --> 03:28:18,479
» I
>> Alder Evers. I Alder Field.

2181
03:28:18,080 --> 03:28:23,600
» I
>> Alder Field. I Alder Figuro Cole.

2182
03:28:20,880 --> 03:28:25,920
» I figur I Alder Glenn.
>> Hi.

2183
03:28:24,080 --> 03:28:31,840
» Alder Glenn. I Alder Yugare.
>> I Alder Harington McKenna.

2184
03:28:29,040 --> 03:28:34,319
» Alder Harington McKenna. I ala
>> Alder Kella. I Alder Lieberman.

2185
03:28:33,840 --> 03:28:36,720
» I
>> Alder Lieberman. I Alderman Madison.

2186
03:28:36,239 --> 03:28:39,439
» I
>> Alder Madison. I Alder Martinez

2187
03:28:38,399 --> 03:28:42,319
Rutherford.
>> Alder Martinez Rutherford. I Alder

2188
03:28:41,359 --> 03:28:46,479
Matthews.
>> Ilder Matthews. I 16 eyes. Two nos. One

2189
03:28:45,359 --> 03:28:51,439
abstain.
>> With 16 eyes. The appeal.

2190
03:28:48,640 --> 03:28:58,319
» I apologize. I forgive me. Alder Jeang.
I apologize.

2191
03:28:53,040 --> 03:29:01,483
» I Jeang is I. That is 17 eyes. Two nos
one abstain. But apologies. [laughter]

2192
03:29:01,520 --> 03:29:11,760
Thank you. Uh with 17 eyes, uh the
appeal is denied

2193
03:29:09,289 --> 03:29:15,960
[snorts] and
we will move on then

2194
03:29:18,319 --> 03:29:22,200
to item nine.

2195
03:29:25,120 --> 03:29:34,160
Item nine is legisar 93894
approving a landmark nomination of the

2196
03:29:30,720 --> 03:29:40,880
property located at uh 222 East Olan
Avenue as the Wonderbar in District 14.

2197
03:29:37,920 --> 03:29:45,680
Uh on item nine this time we're going to
start with the preservation planner

2198
03:29:43,920 --> 03:29:48,680
uh for an overview.
>> Okay.

2199
03:29:52,960 --> 03:30:04,720
» Okay. Um so for the landmark designation
process um let me whoop there we go. Um

2200
03:30:01,680 --> 03:30:10,399
so the proposal came in for uh
designating this property as a landmark.

2201
03:30:06,960 --> 03:30:15,120
The way that process works is um so it's
introduced as a resolution at common

2202
03:30:12,800 --> 03:30:20,880
council. Common council then refers it
to Landmarks Commission for their

2203
03:30:17,439 --> 03:30:27,040
advisory recommendation on if the
proposed nomination makes a successful

2204
03:30:23,600 --> 03:30:33,040
case for significance for a property to
be designated as a landmark. Landmarks

2205
03:30:30,080 --> 03:30:39,680
Commission provides that recommendation
to you to common counsel for you to take

2206
03:30:36,880 --> 03:30:46,160
action on whether you will designate or
not designate a property as a landmark.

2207
03:30:43,279 --> 03:30:51,439
So, up here I've got um an aerial image
that shows uh where the property in

2208
03:30:48,800 --> 03:30:57,120
question is located. And then uh that's
on the right. And then on the left there

2209
03:30:53,600 --> 03:31:03,840
is a relatively recent uh picture that
came from the nomination of uh the

2210
03:31:00,560 --> 03:31:09,200
Wonderbar building.
Um, so this has come in a couple of

2211
03:31:06,560 --> 03:31:13,920
times and uh Megan and I were talking
about that actually this is really the

2212
03:31:11,439 --> 03:31:19,200
third time this uh same nomination has
come in. Um but for the most recent

2213
03:31:16,319 --> 03:31:24,560
stuff um this came in uh well there's
two different things for

2214
03:31:22,319 --> 03:31:32,160
all demolitions of principal structures
that means you know uh a house or a

2215
03:31:28,000 --> 03:31:35,840
business um they do they need to get
officially an approval from plan

2216
03:31:33,680 --> 03:31:40,399
commission with our updated demolition
standards it most of those go to

2217
03:31:38,800 --> 03:31:44,880
landmarks commission well they all go to
lammers commission first but most of

2218
03:31:42,239 --> 03:31:48,720
them that's where they do a historic
value review. If Lammeris Commission

2219
03:31:47,040 --> 03:31:52,239
finds there is no historic value, then
it moves on for administrative review

2220
03:31:50,479 --> 03:31:55,600
and approval of the demolition. The
properties where Lamoris commission

2221
03:31:53,840 --> 03:31:59,520
gives an advisory recommendation that
hey, there's some uh historic value here

2222
03:31:57,520 --> 03:32:03,279
that we want to slow down and take some
consideration about, they give that

2223
03:32:01,760 --> 03:32:07,600
recommendation to plan commission and
then plan commission does their review

2224
03:32:05,359 --> 03:32:13,359
for the demolition standards and decides
whether or not they're going to approve

2225
03:32:08,960 --> 03:32:19,200
a demolition. Um so both in 2021 and
2026 the landmark nomination came in as

2226
03:32:16,880 --> 03:32:24,720
a reaction to a redevelopment proposal
that um would have demolished the

2227
03:32:21,359 --> 03:32:29,120
property uh demolished the building. So
in 2021

2228
03:32:26,640 --> 03:32:36,960
um lands commission did its historic
value review um in uh April of that year

2229
03:32:35,200 --> 03:32:41,920
and then plan commission approved the
demolition. Now, for the demolition at

2230
03:32:39,920 --> 03:32:45,520
that point, um it was a technical
demolition uh because the development

2231
03:32:44,479 --> 03:32:48,000
proposal had changed and they were
talking about shifting it on the

2232
03:32:46,800 --> 03:32:52,239
property. So, it was a technical
demolition where they were going to pick

2233
03:32:49,760 --> 03:33:00,160
it up and shove it over to a different
corner. Um there was a draft landmark

2234
03:32:56,479 --> 03:33:04,880
nomination that came in um but that was
with drawn well it was uh there was a

2235
03:33:03,040 --> 03:33:11,600
request for referral from the applicant.
So, Mr. Soludos um at all

2236
03:33:08,720 --> 03:33:16,640
for them to continue to negotiate uh
with the developer. So there was no

2237
03:33:14,239 --> 03:33:21,840
staff report um and there was no
commission review of the draft landmark

2238
03:33:19,520 --> 03:33:25,359
nomination and that was same with the
previous round that it was submitted and

2239
03:33:23,359 --> 03:33:30,080
it was withdrawn. So Lammer's commission
had no consideration and took no action.

2240
03:33:27,600 --> 03:33:35,600
So there's no there's no information
there for uh the 2021 for the landmark

2241
03:33:33,520 --> 03:33:40,160
nomination. But Lamer's commission said,
"Yeah, there's some historic value

2242
03:33:37,120 --> 03:33:44,560
here." Um, and cited previous historic
surveys and the previous draft

2243
03:33:42,239 --> 03:33:52,160
nomination that said that uh this was
significant um due to uh it being a

2244
03:33:49,840 --> 03:33:59,840
prohibition era roadhouse and for its
association with um organized crime. Um

2245
03:33:55,920 --> 03:34:05,920
so in 2026 uh both of these came in
again. So, the landmark nomination came

2246
03:34:02,880 --> 03:34:12,160
in again as a response for a new uh
redevelopment proposal uh because the

2247
03:34:08,080 --> 03:34:17,120
previous one didn't pan out. Um so, both
of those happened to be on the Lamar

2248
03:34:14,000 --> 03:34:22,000
Commission agenda at the same meeting
and that was just the way that one

2249
03:34:18,560 --> 03:34:28,000
worked out. It uh in 2021 they did not
come in on the same track. Uh so

2250
03:34:24,880 --> 03:34:34,560
Lammer's commission um first dealt with
the draft landmark nomination and their

2251
03:34:31,760 --> 03:34:38,960
recommendation was that uh this did not
rise to the level of significance of

2252
03:34:36,319 --> 03:34:44,000
being a Madison landmark. They then used
that information for after a lengthy

2253
03:34:41,840 --> 03:34:48,399
discussion for their historic value
review and said okay there is some

2254
03:34:46,239 --> 03:34:51,920
history here but we've already said that
this does not rise to the level of being

2255
03:34:50,319 --> 03:34:56,319
a landmark. And we're not doing our big
finding of, hey, this is big-time

2256
03:34:54,080 --> 03:35:02,239
historic value. They did what I call the
middle of the road finding of there is

2257
03:34:59,680 --> 03:35:06,319
history here, but the building in and of
itself um is not historically

2258
03:35:04,640 --> 03:35:09,680
significant, but there is a history here
and we should talk about it. Um they did

2259
03:35:08,399 --> 03:35:15,279
not do their finding of no known
historic value.

2260
03:35:12,080 --> 03:35:19,920
So for the landmark nomination, it
proposed for two different uh areas. uh

2261
03:35:18,080 --> 03:35:24,080
one would be it is associated with the
broad patterns of cultural political

2262
03:35:22,239 --> 03:35:29,359
economic or social history of the nation
state and community. Um so in particular

2263
03:35:26,800 --> 03:35:34,640
for its associations was prohib
prohibition era and its ties to

2264
03:35:30,960 --> 03:35:40,640
organized crime uh which uh ran this as
a roadhouse. Um also about it defining

2265
03:35:38,960 --> 03:35:46,080
uh its architecture saying that this is
a rare remaining example in Madison of a

2266
03:35:43,680 --> 03:35:50,160
prohibition era roadhouse. Uh we don't
have a lot of buildings that look like

2267
03:35:48,000 --> 03:35:55,239
this.
For the applicable standards, um

2268
03:35:55,680 --> 03:36:04,800
it has in here that the Lammer's
Commission may designate or well that

2269
03:36:01,760 --> 03:36:11,680
the city may designate a uh property. It
doesn't say that it must designate. Um

2270
03:36:08,800 --> 03:36:16,720
so I mean I'm a historian. I could write
a history, a research story about pretty

2271
03:36:15,040 --> 03:36:21,760
much every property in the city. Just
because I can write a story about it and

2272
03:36:19,520 --> 03:36:26,560
give you
the history or the folklore or related

2273
03:36:23,840 --> 03:36:32,720
to it, that doesn't mean that it is
significant. And that is the role of the

2274
03:36:29,359 --> 03:36:37,840
landmarks commission um for looking at
the case that was made. Did it make a

2275
03:36:35,439 --> 03:36:43,520
successful case for this is significant?
is this is something that we want to

2276
03:36:40,160 --> 03:36:50,399
conserve for future generations of
Madison to tell our story. So for the

2277
03:36:46,880 --> 03:36:54,479
standards there it may not have you
written a documentation and therefore we

2278
03:36:52,640 --> 03:37:04,000
must designate it because you wrote the
history of it. Um so for the yeah so

2279
03:36:59,359 --> 03:37:09,600
that's what that slide is. Um
so after lengthy discussion, Lammer's

2280
03:37:06,239 --> 03:37:18,399
commission uh did a recommendation that
uh to common council that you deny uh

2281
03:37:15,200 --> 03:37:24,000
this request to designate the property.
Um

2282
03:37:20,720 --> 03:37:29,279
and so you you your task tonight is to
take Lammer's commission's

2283
03:37:25,520 --> 03:37:35,120
recommendation um into account.
LERs Commission is not expecting you to

2284
03:37:31,120 --> 03:37:40,160
be a rubber stamp body. Um they are
providing their analysis and

2285
03:37:37,359 --> 03:37:43,200
recommendation to you. Um also consider
the standards for historic designation

2286
03:37:41,680 --> 03:37:49,920
which was on the previous slide for the
criteria for um A and D about historic

2287
03:37:46,800 --> 03:37:55,840
associations or architecture. And so you
can vote to designate or decline to

2288
03:37:52,479 --> 03:38:01,840
designate uh the property as a landmark.
Um, and then I've also got up here for

2289
03:37:58,800 --> 03:38:09,160
the motions and possible findings, but
again, you can uh make your findings as

2290
03:38:05,760 --> 03:38:09,160
you see fit.

2291
03:38:10,319 --> 03:38:17,800
» I'm done.
>> Thank you. Are there questions for staff

2292
03:38:14,319 --> 03:38:17,800
on this item?

2293
03:38:19,760 --> 03:38:29,120
Alder Figura Cole. Thank you. So again
to confirm because I also did watch this

2294
03:38:25,279 --> 03:38:32,880
meeting but for those who didn't um in
fact I watched both meetings back in

2295
03:38:31,040 --> 03:38:37,200
2021.
Um

2296
03:38:35,120 --> 03:38:40,479
the demolition was approved for this for
this particular thing for this

2297
03:38:38,720 --> 03:38:45,279
particular building. For the current
round the demolition has not been

2298
03:38:42,880 --> 03:38:50,000
approved by the plan commission. Not
yet. It is on an upcoming agenda but it

2299
03:38:48,239 --> 03:38:56,319
is not
plan plant commission has not issued an

2300
03:38:53,200 --> 03:39:00,000
approval for demolition. So what
happened to the first one?

2301
03:38:58,560 --> 03:39:00,960
» Was that a different project? Is that
what it was?

2302
03:39:00,720 --> 03:39:04,720
» Yes.
>> Okay. So the first project was approved

2303
03:39:03,200 --> 03:39:08,239
with a condition. I remember that. But
this one hasn't gotten there yet. Okay.

2304
03:39:06,720 --> 03:39:12,880
Um
yeah I don't have any other questions at

2305
03:39:10,720 --> 03:39:18,640
this moment. Thank you.
Thank you, Alder. Alder Pritchette,

2306
03:39:16,160 --> 03:39:23,439
» one question you mentioned and the the
the the gentleman here mentioned

2307
03:39:21,760 --> 03:39:26,800
» you have to speak directly into these
mics. It's different.

2308
03:39:24,800 --> 03:39:33,760
» Thank you very much. I will speak
directly into this object.

2309
03:39:30,000 --> 03:39:37,760
Uh the question I have is this. You
know, we have the state historical

2310
03:39:35,680 --> 03:39:43,359
society and we have the landmark
commission etc. And I know, you know,

2311
03:39:40,560 --> 03:39:48,800
from a a lot of older buildings, you
know, a lot of it is myth, [snorts]

2312
03:39:45,439 --> 03:39:57,120
legend, and just weird stories that
people have concocted about a structure.

2313
03:39:52,399 --> 03:40:02,160
So, is there documentation, irrefutable
documentation

2314
03:39:58,720 --> 03:40:08,319
regarding the historical
goodness of fit

2315
03:40:04,399 --> 03:40:12,560
of the structure? So I I'm going to say
no, not really. Um there is some

2316
03:40:10,479 --> 03:40:19,359
documentation of crime happening at the
property even after um the prohibition

2317
03:40:15,920 --> 03:40:25,439
era ended, but
there is a lot of circumstantial is it

2318
03:40:22,880 --> 03:40:32,640
evidence about what may or may not
happened there. But a lot of that was

2319
03:40:29,600 --> 03:40:40,160
the stories and the tall tales were a
part of promoting um this business and

2320
03:40:35,840 --> 03:40:47,439
this property, the mystique of
the white crime families that operated

2321
03:40:42,479 --> 03:40:53,120
out of here. Um maybe so that is part of
the story

2322
03:40:49,680 --> 03:40:59,840
in terms of is are we able to accurately
document? No. Then then then why not

2323
03:40:58,239 --> 03:41:04,560
utilize
um

2324
03:41:02,239 --> 03:41:12,080
if you if you're saying to me you know
that it's stories that people have told

2325
03:41:09,760 --> 03:41:17,359
» and I know some of the stories can be
myth etc.

2326
03:41:13,439 --> 03:41:22,080
» Yes. Well, would it be possible to
consider

2327
03:41:19,120 --> 03:41:29,200
letting people know that it, you know,
we don't have ironclad evidence that

2328
03:41:26,160 --> 03:41:32,067
this happened. So, put that in the write
up.

2329
03:41:30,960 --> 03:41:36,960
Okay. And, you know, about
[clears throat] the building itself

2330
03:41:34,000 --> 03:41:47,000
because now I'm also hearing that this
this structure is beyond repair.

2331
03:41:42,720 --> 03:41:47,000
So why are we leaving it standing?

2332
03:41:47,040 --> 03:41:55,520
» So whether it is beyond repair or not
isn't something that Lamoris commission

2333
03:41:52,720 --> 03:41:59,520
can take into consideration for the
landmark nomination. That is something

2334
03:41:57,840 --> 03:42:03,960
that plan commission will take into
consideration related to the demolition.

2335
03:42:04,399 --> 03:42:10,640
» Thank you.
>> You're welcome.

2336
03:42:07,120 --> 03:42:14,319
» Thank you. Alder Alder Tishler.
>> Yeah. Just a quick question. Well, I

2337
03:42:12,080 --> 03:42:17,279
mean, I know we're the Landmarks
Commission did give it I forgot the

2338
03:42:15,760 --> 03:42:22,160
exact language just like historic
significance it had value um but not

2339
03:42:21,193 --> 03:42:27,200
[clears throat] getting to the level of
landmark but what can you just kind of

2340
03:42:25,040 --> 03:42:32,800
uh walk us through
what process or what already exists to

2341
03:42:29,840 --> 03:42:37,520
kind of document
you know photographs

2342
03:42:35,279 --> 03:42:41,760
uh you know 3D renderings whatever it
took to to preserve it once it's no

2343
03:42:40,239 --> 03:42:45,439
longer once the building no longer ever
exists.

2344
03:42:42,560 --> 03:42:48,880
» Sure. So, um that will be so that's
outside of the scope of the landmark

2345
03:42:47,120 --> 03:42:54,000
nomination that will come in as part
when plan commission reviews the

2346
03:42:50,880 --> 03:42:58,319
proposal for demolition. Um but so for
the uh advisory recommendation on

2347
03:42:56,080 --> 03:43:03,760
historic value related to the demolition
uh lame commission did advise plant

2348
03:43:00,640 --> 03:43:08,160
commission to uh require if they're
going to approve the demolition require

2349
03:43:05,840 --> 03:43:11,840
um some documentation of the property.
There's already photographs, exterior

2350
03:43:09,840 --> 03:43:17,120
and interior photographs of the of the
property. Um, we have done some

2351
03:43:15,199 --> 03:43:22,239
documentation that aligns with what the
state historic preservation office does

2352
03:43:18,960 --> 03:43:29,520
uh for properties where they key photos
to a map and there's um drawings of the

2353
03:43:26,640 --> 03:43:34,319
building. Um, we have some options on
that front. Um, I'm actually looking at

2354
03:43:32,319 --> 03:43:38,800
something a little bit different, but we
will see what the options are. I I think

2355
03:43:36,239 --> 03:43:42,960
it is valid to go ahead and do some more
documentation of this property. On the

2356
03:43:40,399 --> 03:43:50,160
other hand, it has been through a couple
of public processes um that document the

2357
03:43:46,960 --> 03:43:55,880
history as it may or may not be and um
we have interior and exterior

2358
03:43:51,840 --> 03:43:55,880
photographs of the property.

2359
03:43:58,800 --> 03:44:07,760
Thank you, Alder. I have no other alders
in the queue

2360
03:44:04,239 --> 03:44:12,880
with questions. Alder Lieberman.
>> Um, I'd like to make a motion that we do

2361
03:44:10,640 --> 03:44:16,960
not adopt landmark nomination.
>> Second.

2362
03:44:14,560 --> 03:44:19,760
» Um,
>> that we deny. Is that the proper

2363
03:44:19,040 --> 03:44:26,800
wording?
>> I think the recommended motion would be

2364
03:44:23,279 --> 03:44:29,920
to place the nomination on file.
>> Okay. I would like to make a motion to

2365
03:44:28,960 --> 03:44:33,199
place the nomination.
>> I'm gonna let the preservation planner

2366
03:44:31,680 --> 03:44:38,080
» I want to say you could do either of
those things. You could deny, but you

2367
03:44:35,439 --> 03:44:45,080
could also place it on file, which is a
nice way of denying. Um, so you could

2368
03:44:40,640 --> 03:44:45,080
deny, you could place it on file.

2369
03:44:45,279 --> 03:44:54,560
» I I'll make a motion to place on file.
>> Moved and seconded to place this item on

2370
03:44:52,560 --> 03:44:58,880
file. Uh, Alder, would you like to speak
to it?

2371
03:44:55,439 --> 03:45:02,800
» Uh, yes. I want to again say, as I've
said before, I recognize that a lot of

2372
03:45:01,120 --> 03:45:07,120
people in my district and across the
city have a personal connection uh to

2373
03:45:05,439 --> 03:45:11,439
the Wonderb Bar, have memories that they
have there. Um, I just want to say when

2374
03:45:09,279 --> 03:45:17,920
it comes to being a landmark, in the
last uh 13 years, the city of Madison

2375
03:45:14,479 --> 03:45:24,160
has only added uh two landmarks uh to
its registry here. Um, the Katherine

2376
03:45:22,000 --> 03:45:29,279
Clarinbach family residence and the
Benjamin and Amy Buts House. Uh both of

2377
03:45:26,560 --> 03:45:35,439
those speak to a history of this city
that uh conveys our roots in activism,

2378
03:45:33,279 --> 03:45:43,840
in building community for women, for
people of color. Um

2379
03:45:38,160 --> 03:45:48,960
the Wonderbar is not um as as was
stated, it has most of its history based

2380
03:45:46,160 --> 03:45:52,880
in myth, and even that history is not
something that I think rises to the

2381
03:45:50,880 --> 03:45:57,199
level of being the sort of landmark that
we want to preserve here. Um, so while I

2382
03:45:55,199 --> 03:46:00,960
recognize the memories that people have
and I hope that they can cherish and

2383
03:45:59,279 --> 03:46:06,239
hold on to those, I don't see a reason
for us to make this a landmark and hold

2384
03:46:03,439 --> 03:46:09,800
on to the physical structure here uh
past its usefulness.

2385
03:46:11,040 --> 03:46:17,680
» Thank you, Alder. Alder Harrington
McKenna, a excuse [clears throat] me, a

2386
03:46:15,520 --> 03:46:24,080
clarifying question. If it's placed on
file, does that mean that it can come

2387
03:46:20,880 --> 03:46:30,000
before this body again?
Uh, no. Alder, the the technical rule

2388
03:46:28,239 --> 03:46:36,319
about placing something on file, and the
city attorney will interrupt me if I go

2389
03:46:31,840 --> 03:46:42,000
wrong. Um, is the item can't come back
to this body for I think 90

2390
03:46:40,080 --> 03:46:47,600
» 60 days.
Um, if the and here the preservation

2391
03:46:45,600 --> 03:46:55,600
planner can correct me if I'm wrong, but
if the appeal is denied now,

2392
03:46:52,720 --> 03:47:01,439
potentially somebody could make another
nomination in the future, but in the

2393
03:46:59,439 --> 03:47:04,720
intervening time, the plan commission is
going to make a decision about

2394
03:47:02,479 --> 03:47:12,160
demolition.
So, in in either case, theoretically, it

2395
03:47:08,640 --> 03:47:18,399
could come back. Um, but practically
there's a time period that they would

2396
03:47:14,640 --> 03:47:22,640
have to wait for to bring it back.
>> I don't know if I'm clear on my

2397
03:47:19,680 --> 03:47:27,199
question. Is that once I looked at So,
is it proper for me to be in discussion

2398
03:47:25,840 --> 03:47:30,239
or do I need to hold that?
>> No, you're you're you are in order,

2399
03:47:29,680 --> 03:47:37,040
Alder.
>> All right. Thank you. Um,

2400
03:47:33,680 --> 03:47:42,640
I went back and reviewed the history of
the Wonderbar

2401
03:47:38,880 --> 03:47:50,640
and one of the things that came to my
attention was an article about Al Capone

2402
03:47:47,439 --> 03:47:56,560
being arrested for tax evasion and all
of that. Um

2403
03:47:53,600 --> 03:48:06,000
and the thing that really stuck in my
mind is is that

2404
03:48:00,000 --> 03:48:12,479
um we have the highest con um um um the
highest incarceration rate um in the in

2405
03:48:10,640 --> 03:48:20,319
the country.
And I don't want to elevate

2406
03:48:17,520 --> 03:48:23,840
Al Capone. I'm [clears throat] sorry. I
went back and I read some of the

2407
03:48:22,319 --> 03:48:31,840
documentations
and as the planner said that um some of

2408
03:48:28,399 --> 03:48:39,920
the documentation was not supported
evidence. Some of the documentation

2409
03:48:35,439 --> 03:48:47,120
was not even guaranteeing that Al Capone
even visited the space. But more

2410
03:48:42,960 --> 03:48:51,439
importantly than that was when I heard
we elevate

2411
03:48:49,120 --> 03:48:59,279
for the future.
And I do not want to vote. Will I

2412
03:48:55,520 --> 03:49:07,040
support something that will elevate
the wonder if it has a historical value

2413
03:49:02,880 --> 03:49:13,120
that I hear about and I will not be and
I can't vote for placing it on file. I

2414
03:49:10,560 --> 03:49:21,279
do want to deny
um and so I support the decision of the

2415
03:49:17,520 --> 03:49:26,560
um uh restoration, but I will not be
supporting it and I do not want to place

2416
03:49:23,680 --> 03:49:32,800
it on file and my vote is against it and
it would be an emphatic no.

2417
03:49:30,239 --> 03:49:37,359
» Thank you, Alder. With the indulgence of
the council, I believe that assistant

2418
03:49:35,040 --> 03:49:41,359
attorney Smith wants to weigh in on the
the question of the motion.

2419
03:49:43,359 --> 03:49:51,359
Um, thank you, Madame Mayor. I obviously
the council is within its purview to

2420
03:49:49,040 --> 03:49:55,840
place an um an action on file that it
comes before them. Um, it would be my

2421
03:49:53,359 --> 03:50:00,399
recommendation to follow the two
pathways outlined in the ordinance,

2422
03:49:58,080 --> 03:50:05,439
which is either to designate it as a
landmark based on the standards or to

2423
03:50:02,800 --> 03:50:12,080
decline to designate it as a landmark
based on um a explanation of how the

2424
03:50:09,520 --> 03:50:17,279
standards are not met. Um, that would be
if it is the will of the body, my

2425
03:50:14,960 --> 03:50:21,680
recommendation would just be to be quite
clear that you're doing one of the two

2426
03:50:19,520 --> 03:50:26,640
pathways enumerated in the ordinance.
Thank you.

2427
03:50:24,239 --> 03:50:34,000
» Thank you, Attorney Smith. I'm going to
turn to the maker of the motion, Alder

2428
03:50:30,560 --> 03:50:39,120
Lieberman. Are you comfortable with
adjusting the motion as

2429
03:50:36,640 --> 03:50:44,880
» Thank you. I And thank you to Attorney
Smith for clarifying there.

2430
03:50:41,439 --> 03:50:49,600
» The the second is okay. It's is the body
u in agreement?

2431
03:50:47,279 --> 03:50:56,560
I'm not seeing objection. Does that
address your concern, Alie McKenna?

2432
03:50:52,720 --> 03:50:59,439
Thank you. Uh, all right. So,
um,

2433
03:50:57,920 --> 03:51:03,234
» I'm going to have the attorney repeat
the words again, please, for the clerk.

2434
03:51:02,579 --> 03:51:08,000
[laughter]
[gasps]

2435
03:51:04,720 --> 03:51:11,840
» Uh, yes. Thank you. So, underneath in
um,

2436
03:51:10,399 --> 03:51:16,640
hold on just a second. I'm going to get
this citation.

2437
03:51:13,680 --> 03:51:24,720
Um so pursuant to the council's
authority in MGO 41.07

2438
03:51:22,160 --> 03:51:33,040
subsection 6
um the action before the council I

2439
03:51:28,640 --> 03:51:37,840
believe um was to decline to designate
the property as a landmark.

2440
03:51:35,920 --> 03:51:44,880
» Thank you.
So the the motion is to decline to

2441
03:51:41,600 --> 03:51:50,239
designate the property as a landmark.
Uh unless I see objection, that will be

2442
03:51:47,840 --> 03:51:55,120
the motion before us. That is the motion
before us. The motion, and it's been

2443
03:51:52,880 --> 03:51:59,840
seconded, is to decline to designate the
property as a landmark. Uh is there

2444
03:51:57,760 --> 03:52:03,920
further discussion, Alder Harrington
McKenna?

2445
03:52:01,680 --> 03:52:08,239
» No, that satisfies me because we don't
want to elevate. Um so yes that

2446
03:52:06,239 --> 03:52:15,560
satisfies my my concern.
>> Thank you alder. Is there further

2447
03:52:11,040 --> 03:52:15,560
discussion on this item?

2448
03:52:16,000 --> 03:52:22,880
I have no other alders in the queue
wishing to speak. So the motion before

2449
03:52:20,720 --> 03:52:29,439
us is to decline to designate the
property as a landmark.

2450
03:52:26,000 --> 03:52:34,279
Is there objection to recording a
unanimous vote in favor of denial?

2451
03:52:34,399 --> 03:52:42,960
Seeing no objection, we'll record that
vote

2452
03:52:38,960 --> 03:52:48,560
and we will move on
uh to

2453
03:52:45,439 --> 03:52:54,439
item 14.
Item 14 is legisar 94183.

2454
03:52:54,586 --> 03:52:59,840
[sighs]
This is a substitute creating sections

2455
03:52:57,760 --> 03:53:08,479
of the Madison general ordinances to
change the pro uh zoning of property at

2456
03:53:03,199 --> 03:53:16,399
8302 McDow Drive to from uh temp a
agricultural to TRU2 which is

2457
03:53:11,279 --> 03:53:22,239
traditional residential urban 2 and CCT
commercial quarter transitional

2458
03:53:18,800 --> 03:53:27,120
and TRU1 commercial quarter
transitional. all of this in district 1.

2459
03:53:24,960 --> 03:53:31,359
And to walk us through this one, we're
going to turn back to our planning

2460
03:53:28,640 --> 03:53:35,840
division director, Director Tuttle.
>> Thank you, mayor. Um, I'll be brief on

2461
03:53:33,520 --> 03:53:41,199
this one because I'm not sure if or what
questions alders may have about this

2462
03:53:37,600 --> 03:53:47,199
item tonight. This item is one of two
items that were on your agenda tonight

2463
03:53:43,439 --> 03:53:50,479
related to creating the Hawk Nest. Um,
I'll call it a neighborhood for lack of

2464
03:53:49,120 --> 03:53:56,720
a better word since we were just talking
about plats and lots. Um, so this item

2465
03:53:53,920 --> 03:54:03,359
specifically relates to creating or
assigning the zoning districts to the

2466
03:53:59,760 --> 03:54:08,479
future blocks that would be created by
um, the Hawk Nest Plat that you approved

2467
03:54:05,439 --> 03:54:12,800
earlier tonight. Um this creates a
number of lots for future multifamily

2468
03:54:10,479 --> 03:54:19,279
residential and lots that would be used
for future mixeduse residential and um

2469
03:54:16,560 --> 03:54:23,040
supports the kind of framework of a new
neighborhood that was approved through

2470
03:54:20,880 --> 03:54:29,040
the plat that establishes streets and
other future infrastructure.

2471
03:54:25,840 --> 03:54:34,560
Um, this item was reviewed by the plan
commission and ultimately the item

2472
03:54:32,000 --> 03:54:39,920
that's before you recommends a couple of
changes from what was originally

2473
03:54:37,359 --> 03:54:44,960
submitted to the city for approval.
specifically that three of the lots

2474
03:54:42,239 --> 03:54:49,520
along the eastern boundary uh adjacent
to the neighborhood that you heard from

2475
03:54:47,120 --> 03:54:55,279
tonight in public forum were recommended
to be reszoned to a lower intensity

2476
03:54:52,399 --> 03:55:01,439
zoning district uh the TRU1 zoning
district from the original district that

2477
03:54:58,160 --> 03:55:08,319
the applicants requested which is TRU2 a
higher intensity district. Um ultimately

2478
03:55:04,560 --> 03:55:12,960
what this approval will do is to create
um the sort of regulatory framework for

2479
03:55:11,279 --> 03:55:17,520
future development proposals to come
into the city. So this is not approving

2480
03:55:15,920 --> 03:55:23,199
all of the development that we would
anticipate being phased over time, but

2481
03:55:20,399 --> 03:55:28,720
really sets the rules in place for what
um a specific development may be able to

2482
03:55:25,520 --> 03:55:32,960
do when it is um when somebody applies
for it in the future. I'm happy to

2483
03:55:31,120 --> 03:55:37,279
answer specific questions if there are
any from the council. Um, but I'll stop

2484
03:55:35,520 --> 03:55:41,920
there.
>> Thank you, Director Tuttle. Questions

2485
03:55:38,960 --> 03:55:49,040
for staff? Alder Figuro Cole.
>> Thank you, Mayor. So, one of the

2486
03:55:44,399 --> 03:55:53,120
concerns is about um traffic
and um

2487
03:55:51,680 --> 03:55:58,000
it's my understanding I mean like you
explained this is a creates the lots

2488
03:55:55,359 --> 03:56:03,760
defines the zoning for this subdivision
and then it will eventually become a

2489
03:56:00,800 --> 03:56:09,520
neighborhood with the different entities
like housing and businesses. Um, so at

2490
03:56:06,960 --> 03:56:14,239
this point we're approving those two
things and I think we're also approving

2491
03:56:11,600 --> 03:56:21,600
the mapping or the request for the
mapping for utilities and the road. Is

2492
03:56:18,479 --> 03:56:26,640
that are those things then going to go
be reviewed by other commissions like

2493
03:56:23,680 --> 03:56:32,720
for example the transport the the um
traffic congestion part will that be um

2494
03:56:29,920 --> 03:56:38,640
reviewed by the transportation? Yeah,
the transportation commission.

2495
03:56:34,479 --> 03:56:43,439
» Yes. Um, so this item specifically is
about assigning the zoning districts to

2496
03:56:41,600 --> 03:56:48,080
this future neighborhood. Let's do it.
>> Um, but as part of item 61 that was

2497
03:56:45,840 --> 03:56:52,960
approved on your consent agenda to
approve the preliminary plat that

2498
03:56:50,720 --> 03:56:57,120
identifies future locations of roads and
other infrastructure that we anticipate

2499
03:56:54,880 --> 03:57:01,600
coming back and being reviewed by the
city for further approval um in the

2500
03:56:59,920 --> 03:57:08,000
future.
When this was um approved, uh this

2501
03:57:05,920 --> 03:57:12,319
preliminary, we call it the preliminary
plat that creates the the foundation for

2502
03:57:10,080 --> 03:57:16,319
this future neighborhood, it did include
some conditions related to

2503
03:57:13,840 --> 03:57:22,319
transportation uh that those future
streets will need to meet when they come

2504
03:57:18,880 --> 03:57:27,760
before the public works commission and
ultimately transportation commission uh

2505
03:57:24,720 --> 03:57:33,040
for approval. So, engineering was able
to flag several things related to how

2506
03:57:30,800 --> 03:57:37,199
the future street uh the extension of
Mayo Drive that was referenced in public

2507
03:57:35,040 --> 03:57:41,920
comment uh will meet some of the
existing streets and um have put some

2508
03:57:40,080 --> 03:57:47,040
limitations on things like turning
movements and have already indicated

2509
03:57:44,960 --> 03:57:50,800
that there will be land that will need
to be dedicated to the city to make sure

2510
03:57:48,800 --> 03:57:56,479
that we can create the right width and
type of intersections as well as the

2511
03:57:53,120 --> 03:58:01,040
right type of um and completed pathways
for alternative transportation.

2512
03:57:58,960 --> 03:58:04,800
Um, but ultimately those bodies will
have another chance to review this when

2513
03:58:02,640 --> 03:58:09,120
they come in to record their final plat,
you know, to finalize the details of how

2514
03:58:07,279 --> 03:58:15,359
those streets will be designed and
ultimately developed. um when individual

2515
03:58:13,120 --> 03:58:20,479
projects, so individual buildings come
in for to request approval to be

2516
03:58:18,160 --> 03:58:24,960
developed, we will also at that time
look at the specifics of what we

2517
03:58:22,160 --> 03:58:30,239
anticipate in terms of traffic volume um
and how that will be accommodated on the

2518
03:58:28,399 --> 03:58:34,399
in the neighborhood and on the specific
properties that are being developed at

2519
03:58:31,680 --> 03:58:40,160
that time. and any other conditions from
those um either the plan commission, our

2520
03:58:37,120 --> 03:58:44,880
city's traffic engineering team will be
um included in the approval comments for

2521
03:58:42,960 --> 03:58:48,080
those future phases.
>> Thank you. So again, for the people that

2522
03:58:46,800 --> 03:58:51,279
are concerned about those things, they
will have an opportunity to have those

2523
03:58:49,520 --> 03:58:55,680
discussions at a later time. Yes. Right
now, we have a blank canvas and we're

2524
03:58:52,960 --> 03:59:01,120
just creating the lines for the lots and
then letting the developer know what can

2525
03:58:58,399 --> 03:59:05,199
they build there by establishing the
zoning codes. Yes, it it kind of

2526
03:59:02,960 --> 03:59:08,479
establishes the sort of envelope of what
can be done, but the specifics will need

2527
03:59:06,960 --> 03:59:14,760
to come back in for approval.
>> Yep. Thank you.

2528
03:59:10,800 --> 03:59:14,760
» Thank you, Elder. Alder Tishler.

2529
03:59:14,800 --> 03:59:20,880
» Yeah, I'm assuming we're, you know, the
the the streets are going to have uh

2530
03:59:19,120 --> 03:59:26,280
adequate space for sidewalks, but what
about uh cutthroughs through some of the

2531
03:59:23,359 --> 03:59:29,600
longer longer blocks? Is that
[clears throat] something that's going

2532
03:59:26,880 --> 03:59:33,840
to be we decided at a later point or is
that

2533
03:59:31,439 --> 03:59:36,640
» Do you mean um traffic cutthroughs from
other like adjacent?

2534
03:59:35,199 --> 03:59:40,239
» I'm thinking more of I'm thinking more
of like cutthroughs for for uh for

2535
03:59:38,479 --> 03:59:46,319
pedestrians and cyclists.
>> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Um yes, [snorts] I I

2536
03:59:43,760 --> 03:59:52,479
believe in the plat there are some the
foundation for some of the uh necessary

2537
03:59:49,279 --> 03:59:57,359
infrastructure has been provided. Um but
in those future reviews we will look at

2538
03:59:55,120 --> 04:00:03,399
um the different circulation patterns
for the buildings that will be proposed.

2539
04:00:00,399 --> 04:00:03,399
» Okay.

2540
04:00:03,920 --> 04:00:10,120
» Thank you Alder. Are there any other
questions for staff?

2541
04:00:10,160 --> 04:00:22,399
Seeing none. Thank you Director Tuttle.
So uh I would entertain a motion on item

2542
04:00:19,120 --> 04:00:27,840
14. Uh, Alder Yugare.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'll move that uh

2543
04:00:25,520 --> 04:00:35,040
common council adopt the substitute
version of zoning. Um, I'm not sure if

2544
04:00:31,520 --> 04:00:41,239
it's necessary to uh go through all of
the details. I'm glad to do that if

2545
04:00:36,960 --> 04:00:41,239
necessary. Um,

2546
04:00:41,439 --> 04:00:47,680
» with all of the associated conditions.
Uh so the motion is to adopt the

2547
04:00:45,199 --> 04:00:53,760
substitute with conditions
and Alder Figuro will second.

2548
04:00:51,279 --> 04:01:02,000
Uh all right, Alder uh Yugger, did you
wish to speak to it? And no, I'll just

2549
04:00:56,640 --> 04:01:09,680
say that uh as you can tell from the uh
planner uh plan division uh lead here

2550
04:01:06,399 --> 04:01:14,239
that uh this got extensive discussion at
the plan commission including a very

2551
04:01:11,760 --> 04:01:20,399
close look at what we could tell at this
point about uh uh the traffic concerns

2552
04:01:17,120 --> 04:01:26,000
that came up from the uh [snorts] uh one
registrant that we had here. uh I think

2553
04:01:22,960 --> 04:01:32,319
there was uh general approval of the
substitute versions for uh the

2554
04:01:28,720 --> 04:01:39,000
differences uh on the specific parcels
for uh different densities

2555
04:01:35,359 --> 04:01:39,000
and uh

2556
04:01:39,600 --> 04:01:46,560
again we we had a very thorough
discussion and I think we covered all of

2557
04:01:43,359 --> 04:01:51,359
the points of concern and looking at uh
uh how this would be beneficial for the

2558
04:01:48,560 --> 04:01:56,479
era for the future. Thank you.
Thank you, Alder.

2559
04:01:53,279 --> 04:02:03,120
I have no other alders in the queue
wishing to speak on this item. So, the

2560
04:02:00,560 --> 04:02:06,560
motion is to adopt the substitute with
conditions.

2561
04:02:04,880 --> 04:02:12,080
Is there any objection to recording
unanimous vote in favor of adopting the

2562
04:02:09,199 --> 04:02:17,800
substitute with conditions?
Seeing no objection, we will record that

2563
04:02:14,800 --> 04:02:17,800
vote

2564
04:02:18,560 --> 04:02:21,560
and

2565
04:02:25,040 --> 04:02:34,640
That will take us to item 59.
Item 59. President Madison.

2566
04:02:33,040 --> 04:02:38,560
» Oh, for this item, I'm just going to ask
for a presentation from finance.

2567
04:02:37,040 --> 04:02:41,920
» Let me get it. Let me get it in front of
us first. I'll come right back to you.

2568
04:02:41,473 --> 04:02:50,239
[gasps]
>> Uh, okay. Uh item 59 is legisar 94250, a

2569
04:02:47,520 --> 04:02:53,920
substitute amending the 2026 economic
development division operating budget by

2570
04:02:52,160 --> 04:02:58,800
transferring funds from other agency
budgets and authorizing interdep

2571
04:02:56,399 --> 04:03:02,319
departmental transfers, approving
program materials, and authorizing the

2572
04:03:00,880 --> 04:03:07,600
economic development division to
administer a Williamson Street business

2573
04:03:04,319 --> 04:03:14,000
stabilization support program.
On item 59, uh, President Madison, did

2574
04:03:11,040 --> 04:03:17,680
you want to get a motion on the floor or
go right to questions for staff?

2575
04:03:16,080 --> 04:03:19,680
» Go right to presentation of questions
for staff.

2576
04:03:18,160 --> 04:03:24,399
» Okay. So, we'll go to questions for
staff. President Madison.

2577
04:03:21,680 --> 04:03:27,920
» Uh, I would like for uh, Director
Schmidiki to provide a brief

2578
04:03:25,840 --> 04:03:33,873
presentation.
>> Director Schmidiki.

2579
04:03:31,199 --> 04:03:37,239
Uh, thank you, Mayor. Let me uh share
[clears throat] my screen.

2580
04:03:43,199 --> 04:03:52,000
Wait for that to All right. Um so this
is the presentation that um we went

2581
04:03:49,760 --> 04:03:58,399
through at the finance committee last
week. It'll provide some um background

2582
04:03:54,560 --> 04:04:04,040
on the contingent reserve and um an
update on projections of uh general fund

2583
04:04:01,040 --> 04:04:04,040
expenditures.

2584
04:04:04,399 --> 04:04:13,439
Um we'll uh cover the midyear budget
projection which was presented to the

2585
04:04:09,760 --> 04:04:20,640
finance committee at the um uh the end
of July which also also included the uh

2586
04:04:16,479 --> 04:04:25,439
midyear um appropriation resolution. an
update on expenditures, uh the status of

2587
04:04:23,040 --> 04:04:30,560
the contingent reserve, a little bit of
background on um

2588
04:04:28,720 --> 04:04:35,920
transfers from the contingent reserve
over the last 10 years, and then um just

2589
04:04:33,840 --> 04:04:42,160
a a glossery of some of the terms that
we refer to. [clears throat]

2590
04:04:39,279 --> 04:04:47,040
Uh so we did go through a mid-year
projection as we do um each year. Based

2591
04:04:44,960 --> 04:04:52,160
on that, there was a resolution adopted
by the council to make adjustments to

2592
04:04:49,040 --> 04:04:59,199
agency budgets. Um that is a point in
time analysis. So we're looking at the

2593
04:04:54,960 --> 04:05:03,439
um uh the period of time um from January
through May

2594
04:05:01,040 --> 04:05:08,080
and um that was presented to the finance
committee on July 27th. At that time,

2595
04:05:06,160 --> 04:05:12,479
the general fund was projected to have a
a surplus

2596
04:05:10,080 --> 04:05:17,439
uh in terms of available budget
authority of $4 million. Uh that's

2597
04:05:15,439 --> 04:05:23,359
primarily from under spending and what
we call centrally budgeted funds. Those

2598
04:05:19,760 --> 04:05:27,840
include the contingent reserve and um uh
benefits paid to employees uh at

2599
04:05:25,920 --> 04:05:32,880
retirement.
Um the the resolution was adopted,

2600
04:05:30,319 --> 04:05:38,880
transferred funds within and between
agencies and made other adjustments to

2601
04:05:35,600 --> 04:05:45,439
capital and operating budgets. And um it
did include a $500,000 transfer from the

2602
04:05:43,040 --> 04:05:51,520
contingent reserve to the clerk's office
and to the engineering division to cover

2603
04:05:48,160 --> 04:05:55,680
um uh projected deficits based on that
mid-year projection.

2604
04:05:53,680 --> 04:06:01,880
And that transfer amount is accounted
for in the $4 million I referenced uh

2605
04:05:58,880 --> 04:06:01,880
above.

2606
04:06:03,215 --> 04:06:08,720
[clears throat]
So these are some of the highlights.

2607
04:06:06,800 --> 04:06:14,560
Just drilling down a little bit further
into the general fund expenditures.

2608
04:06:11,439 --> 04:06:20,080
Um agencies are projected to overspend
by about a million dollars. Uh much of

2609
04:06:17,520 --> 04:06:26,000
that though is due to what we call um
compensated absence payouts and those

2610
04:06:23,600 --> 04:06:33,040
are centrally budgeted. So agencies
being overbudget for that reason is um

2611
04:06:29,199 --> 04:06:39,120
not out of the ordinary. Um and some
agencies are not meeting their salary

2612
04:06:35,279 --> 04:06:45,199
savings targets due to lower than um uh
budgeted vacancy rates.

2613
04:06:42,080 --> 04:06:49,760
Um there is some offset to that uh
projected overspending on salaries and

2614
04:06:47,199 --> 04:06:55,680
fringe benefits in the purchase services
area that's due primarily to the timing

2615
04:06:52,080 --> 04:07:01,279
of um multi-year software contracts as
well as prepaid expenses. Uh, a majority

2616
04:06:59,120 --> 04:07:07,120
of the unspending, as I mentioned
before, is in centrally budgeted funds

2617
04:07:04,239 --> 04:07:13,040
for the compensated absence escrow, um,
which is budgeted at $3 million

2618
04:07:09,840 --> 04:07:16,880
and, um, the contingent reserve, which
is originally budgeted at a little over

2619
04:07:15,040 --> 04:07:21,520
$2 million.
Uh and so um at the time that the

2620
04:07:19,520 --> 04:07:27,040
projections were made, the only draw on
the contingent reserve had been the

2621
04:07:23,439 --> 04:07:32,000
$70,000 adopted by the council to
support MADCAP funding through the rest

2622
04:07:29,600 --> 04:07:35,920
of the year. So when you add those two
estimates together, projections

2623
04:07:33,760 --> 04:07:42,160
together, the overspend within the
agency budgets and then the um savings

2624
04:07:40,000 --> 04:07:48,960
uh below budget amounts and direct
appropriations that gets you to the $4

2625
04:07:44,479 --> 04:07:53,359
million projected surplus at that time.
Uh there was also um information

2626
04:07:51,279 --> 04:07:58,800
presented at that meeting on the Metro
Transit budget and the deficit expected

2627
04:07:56,000 --> 04:08:04,560
there of a little over $4 million. The
resolution adopted by the council um the

2628
04:08:02,080 --> 04:08:10,239
midyear appropriation did make some
adjustments terms of applying fund

2629
04:08:06,880 --> 04:08:17,520
balance basically giving Metro um enough
budget authority to get through um the

2630
04:08:14,160 --> 04:08:23,040
rest of the year. There will be another
projection made as with all agency for

2631
04:08:20,720 --> 04:08:26,800
the year-end projection. Right now,
there's no proposed increase in the

2632
04:08:24,880 --> 04:08:32,560
general fund subsidy and that year-end
projection for Metro. While I look at

2633
04:08:29,279 --> 04:08:38,120
other possible options to address um uh
the projected deficit and the overall

2634
04:08:34,479 --> 04:08:38,120
size of that deficit,

2635
04:08:38,399 --> 04:08:47,040
uh just a little bit of background on
the um contingent reserve. Uh the city's

2636
04:08:44,080 --> 04:08:52,720
had a policy for many years to set aside
about a half a percent uh within its

2637
04:08:49,920 --> 04:08:56,399
overall budget. Um, and this amount is
budgeted in what we call direct

2638
04:08:54,800 --> 04:09:02,479
appropriations.
We call it the contingent reserve. And

2639
04:08:59,359 --> 04:09:08,080
that half a percent for the 2026 budget,
uh, the math works out to about 2.15

2640
04:09:05,199 --> 04:09:14,720
million. transfers approved to date I've
already mentioned include the um uh the

2641
04:09:11,199 --> 04:09:19,760
madcap program as well as funding for um
expected election expenses in the

2642
04:09:16,560 --> 04:09:25,120
clerk's office and um facility
maintenance needs in the engineering

2643
04:09:21,600 --> 04:09:30,960
division. So with those approved um
transfers, there's a little under $1.6 6

2644
04:09:28,399 --> 04:09:37,199
million remaining in the contingent
reserve.

2645
04:09:33,439 --> 04:09:43,279
Um at the finance committee uh meeting
last week, there were two resolutions

2646
04:09:39,279 --> 04:09:47,760
before the committee um that day and um
those included transfers from the

2647
04:09:45,120 --> 04:09:53,439
contingent reserve. The total proposed
amount was about $228,000.

2648
04:09:51,600 --> 04:09:58,640
finance committee in terms of what it
recommended would have no transfers out

2649
04:09:56,239 --> 04:10:04,720
um from the contingent reserve. So that
included the um Williamson Street uh

2650
04:10:01,600 --> 04:10:09,840
business stabilization program 200,000
coming from the contingent reserve. The

2651
04:10:07,199 --> 04:10:14,880
finance committee amended the resolution
uh to only use funding um under spending

2652
04:10:13,120 --> 04:10:22,080
in the planning, community, and economic
development budgets. And then um a

2653
04:10:17,359 --> 04:10:26,640
resolution on um uh $28,500 for the
Office of the Independent Monitor for

2654
04:10:23,680 --> 04:10:32,720
staffing and conference attendance costs
and the finance committee recommended

2655
04:10:28,239 --> 04:10:40,319
that those be placed on file.
Um so the um updated projections uh we

2656
04:10:37,520 --> 04:10:44,960
have looked at a few additional costs
beyond the um

2657
04:10:43,040 --> 04:10:48,880
uh what was in the midyear projection.
and we'll do a um a much more

2658
04:10:46,800 --> 04:10:54,160
comprehensive projection as we always do
in October and that'll be presented to

2659
04:10:51,279 --> 04:10:58,880
the finance committee in November.
But as of August 31st, we have that $4

2660
04:10:56,720 --> 04:11:05,600
million projected surplus as I
mentioned. Um we do have some additional

2661
04:11:02,560 --> 04:11:12,319
expenses related to prepaid information
technology licensing costs, so software

2662
04:11:08,160 --> 04:11:19,439
costs. um that prepay would help the
budget starting in 2027 um saving about

2663
04:11:16,399 --> 04:11:25,279
$200,000 a year compared to current cost
to continue and save about $400,000 over

2664
04:11:22,960 --> 04:11:30,160
the license term. So that prepaid does
save future costs. Um, I'll go into this

2665
04:11:28,399 --> 04:11:35,359
in a little more detail, but um, a
million dollars in overtime expenses and

2666
04:11:32,720 --> 04:11:42,080
costs related to the um, police
department response and then um,

2667
04:11:38,560 --> 04:11:47,279
$200,000 from the contingent reserve uh,
which was the resolutions I I mentioned

2668
04:11:44,399 --> 04:11:54,239
before. So, if all of that is to happen,
that updated estimate would be um, $2

2669
04:11:49,680 --> 04:12:00,479
million instead of a $4 million surplus.
So, in terms of the response to July

2670
04:11:56,479 --> 04:12:06,239
22nd, um the estimate right now is the
total cost would be about $1 million.

2671
04:12:03,840 --> 04:12:10,720
Most of that would be um police
department overtime costs. Uh we are

2672
04:12:08,960 --> 04:12:15,920
tracking those expenses and we'll
provide updates as data is available. We

2673
04:12:13,520 --> 04:12:22,319
do have a lag because of payroll
processing and other processing.

2674
04:12:18,880 --> 04:12:27,520
um payroll through the payroll that
ended August 15th, we have costs of

2675
04:12:24,880 --> 04:12:32,239
about $663,000.
You can see it broken out by department

2676
04:12:30,000 --> 04:12:36,874
in the table on this slide with most of
that being uh police department um

2677
04:12:35,279 --> 04:12:41,279
overtime
[snorts] uh as well as overtime, premium

2678
04:12:38,560 --> 04:12:46,160
pay, and other benefits in um other
agencies. in the community development

2679
04:12:43,120 --> 04:12:54,359
division or CDD. Most of those expenses
um uh are related to hotel, motel cost,

2680
04:12:49,359 --> 04:12:54,359
food and non-personnel uh expenses.

2681
04:12:54,880 --> 04:13:02,560
Um some of the additional considerations
with the remainder remainder of this

2682
04:12:59,279 --> 04:13:08,880
year and potential costs and and uh how
that projected surplus could be um

2683
04:13:05,199 --> 04:13:15,040
impacted. Uh at the moment when we did
the projection um using data through May

2684
04:13:12,880 --> 04:13:20,560
the streets division anticipated there
will be uh sufficient funding for four

2685
04:13:18,319 --> 04:13:27,120
general plows for the remainder of the
year. So um talking the last probably

2686
04:13:23,760 --> 04:13:32,239
couple months of 2026 that is built into
the midyear budget projection. Uh we

2687
04:13:29,760 --> 04:13:36,640
have seen in recent years that the cost
of snow removal at the end of um the

2688
04:13:35,040 --> 04:13:42,560
calendar year has been lower than
budgeted and um at the moment barring

2689
04:13:40,080 --> 04:13:48,560
any sort of extreme weather events uh
the streets division budget should be

2690
04:13:44,239 --> 04:13:56,800
able to cover normal levels of snowfall.
Um the shelter endowment is um a

2691
04:13:52,720 --> 04:14:03,040
situation where the city um uh committed
to providing $2 million for an endowment

2692
04:14:00,880 --> 04:14:10,560
uh to be set up to support operations
for the Bartalon um shelter. Uh the uh

2693
04:14:07,199 --> 04:14:17,279
year-end appropriation for 2025
included an appropriation of $1 million

2694
04:14:13,600 --> 04:14:22,080
to fund um basically fund half of that
commitment. The remaining million

2695
04:14:19,840 --> 04:14:27,600
dollars could be paid this year
partially or fully could be paid um next

2696
04:14:25,279 --> 04:14:33,279
year. Again, the source of funding for
that this year could be the contingent

2697
04:14:29,760 --> 04:14:39,040
reserve or other unspending. Um that
amount is not factored in the

2698
04:14:35,359 --> 04:14:43,920
projections at the moment. Uh but it it
could be considered in terms of um how

2699
04:14:41,359 --> 04:14:50,319
much capacity uh should be kept in the
contingent reserve at year end. Um other

2700
04:14:48,319 --> 04:14:54,560
types of emergencies could arise. It's
difficult to predict what those might

2701
04:14:52,479 --> 04:14:58,880
be. We don't have any sort of cost
estimates for those. One thing I will

2702
04:14:57,120 --> 04:15:04,800
mention that's not listed here is we
continue to monitor fuel costs. fuel

2703
04:15:01,840 --> 04:15:10,880
continues to rise. Um diesel fuel
particularly has increased um pretty

2704
04:15:08,080 --> 04:15:17,920
dramatically in costs and um that could
have some impact on uh year-end needs

2705
04:15:14,720 --> 04:15:24,000
probably at at the most right now maybe
um a half a million dollars but that's a

2706
04:15:20,560 --> 04:15:28,479
very very preliminary estimate.
Um the next two slides I won't go into a

2707
04:15:26,720 --> 04:15:34,399
lot of detail. We'll share these slides,
attach them to um legisar. They're also

2708
04:15:30,960 --> 04:15:38,560
available um in on the finance committee
agenda from last week. But this just

2709
04:15:36,800 --> 04:15:46,080
gives a history of how the contingent
reserve has been used over the last 10

2710
04:15:40,800 --> 04:15:51,120
years and um uh it a lot of different
reasons for for why it would be used. I

2711
04:15:48,640 --> 04:15:55,840
mentioned the um the shelter endowment.
Uh some of it was used to support um

2712
04:15:53,520 --> 04:16:02,560
needs in metro as well as higher fleet
costs. And um there we also in the year-

2713
04:16:00,399 --> 04:16:09,760
end appropriations or in the mid-year
appropriations have made appropriations

2714
04:16:05,439 --> 04:16:16,080
from the general fund balance uh up to
um uh the maximum allowable under what's

2715
04:16:13,520 --> 04:16:21,520
called the state expenditure restraint
incentive program. That's really a limit

2716
04:16:18,479 --> 04:16:27,279
on the city's ability to spend. Um, and
in return for staying below that limit,

2717
04:16:23,920 --> 04:16:33,439
the city receives about $9 million of
state aid.

2718
04:16:29,439 --> 04:16:38,000
Um, in uh 2024, there was no sort of
need to transfer the contingent reserve.

2719
04:16:35,199 --> 04:16:45,600
There was no ERIP limit that year
because of um sort of a uh hiatus in

2720
04:16:41,680 --> 04:16:50,080
that program under state law. and um the
remaining um what we call ARPA funding

2721
04:16:47,920 --> 04:16:55,120
or uh American Rescue Plan Act funding
from the federal government was

2722
04:16:51,439 --> 04:17:00,159
utilized. Um in other years uh there
have been um shortfalls in agency

2723
04:16:57,279 --> 04:17:06,239
budgets that have been met. Um tax
litigation costs uh other litigation

2724
04:17:02,960 --> 04:17:12,720
costs have been provided. 2020 uh is a
rather unique year obviously uh in terms

2725
04:17:09,359 --> 04:17:20,880
of um the first year of the u uh
pandemic and the u multiple impacts on

2726
04:17:16,960 --> 04:17:25,279
the city budget as well as um uh federal
funding provided and a lot of

2727
04:17:22,720 --> 04:17:29,600
adjustments made to um address that
year.

2728
04:17:27,040 --> 04:17:37,680
Uh the remaining years are really to
some extent covering police and fire

2729
04:17:32,239 --> 04:17:42,319
department um costs and um other um
smaller

2730
04:17:39,359 --> 04:17:46,720
uh allocations made by the council. I
will just emphasize that all of the

2731
04:17:44,399 --> 04:17:53,760
transfers out of the contingent reserve
require a resolution adopted by the

2732
04:17:49,199 --> 04:18:00,560
council uh with um a 15 vote um
requirement. Uh the last page here is

2733
04:17:57,199 --> 04:18:06,720
just some of the terms um that we use
such as budget transfers. Some transfers

2734
04:18:04,159 --> 04:18:12,239
uh are allowed um administratively
either um by the finance director or the

2735
04:18:09,199 --> 04:18:17,680
mayor up to $50,000
but otherwise any other transfers above

2736
04:18:15,120 --> 04:18:23,040
those amounts as I mentioned do require
um action by the council through a

2737
04:18:20,239 --> 04:18:26,880
supermajority approval. Uh, I mentioned
the contingent reserve and direct

2738
04:18:24,800 --> 04:18:30,880
appropriations, uh, the expenditure
restraint incentive program. Uh, the

2739
04:18:29,199 --> 04:18:35,120
general fund is what we really are
talking about when we talk about the

2740
04:18:32,560 --> 04:18:40,159
city's operating budget. And, uh, we'll
spend a lot more time on that, um, over

2741
04:18:37,040 --> 04:18:44,800
the next couple of months. Uh, the levy
limit, you you all have heard about

2742
04:18:42,560 --> 04:18:50,319
that. That is our limit on revenues, so
the property tax um, as set up under uh,

2743
04:18:47,680 --> 04:18:55,520
state law, and then um, the operating
budget. So with that, I will stop

2744
04:18:52,800 --> 04:18:59,040
sharing and I'm happy to answer any
questions.

2745
04:18:57,279 --> 04:19:03,199
» Thank you, Director Schmidiki. Questions
for staff. Alder Okovitz.

2746
04:19:01,840 --> 04:19:09,439
» Uh thank you, Mayor, and thank you,
Director Schmidiki. Um could you explain

2747
04:19:06,080 --> 04:19:16,720
how unspent uh contingent reserve funds
affect calculations of next year's levy

2748
04:19:13,840 --> 04:19:22,000
limit increases?
uh there's really no connection between

2749
04:19:18,960 --> 04:19:28,960
um the contingent reserve and the um the
levy limit. So levy limit is established

2750
04:19:25,760 --> 04:19:35,680
» through a formula that um looks at what
we call um net new construction value in

2751
04:19:31,680 --> 04:19:39,840
the city and um applies that factor to
the amount that was levied in the prior

2752
04:19:37,840 --> 04:19:45,520
year and that sets the maximum amount
that we can levy in the subsequent year

2753
04:19:42,479 --> 04:19:48,479
excluding um amounts levied to pay debt
service.

2754
04:19:46,159 --> 04:19:51,600
» Okay. So are unspent contingent reserve
funds transferred to the general fund?

2755
04:19:50,479 --> 04:19:55,760
» I'm sorry I couldn't hear.
>> I'm sorry. are unspent contingent

2756
04:19:53,279 --> 04:20:00,479
reserve funds transferred to the general
fund.

2757
04:19:56,560 --> 04:20:05,359
» So um at the end of the year uh it's
really the difference between the amount

2758
04:20:02,479 --> 04:20:09,920
of actual revenues we collect and the
amount of funding we actually uh or the

2759
04:20:08,159 --> 04:20:14,800
amount that we actually spend relative
to budget. Uh and the difference between

2760
04:20:12,479 --> 04:20:20,319
those two is what becomes that increase
in fund balance. So obviously we have to

2761
04:20:17,359 --> 04:20:26,960
stay under budget. Um, one element to
that is the um, uh, how the contingent

2762
04:20:24,000 --> 04:20:33,359
reserve may or may not have been used.
It's basically there um, so that we stay

2763
04:20:31,040 --> 04:20:38,560
in compliance with expenditure restraint
and that we can meet certain emergencies

2764
04:20:36,479 --> 04:20:42,120
that may arise during the year.
>> Okay. Thank you.

2765
04:20:42,159 --> 04:20:48,239
» Thank you, Alder.
Alder

2766
04:20:46,239 --> 04:20:52,880
Madison,
>> thank you. I won't ask my 30 questions

2767
04:20:50,319 --> 04:20:58,399
that I asked at finance, but I just have
two quick quick ones. The first one is

2768
04:20:55,760 --> 04:21:02,399
where are we at right now with E-RIP or
how close are we?

2769
04:21:00,800 --> 04:21:07,920
» Um, we are pretty much at the
expenditure restraint limit right now.

2770
04:21:04,479 --> 04:21:13,680
the budget was um constructed that way
um the 2026 budget and we were I think

2771
04:21:10,880 --> 04:21:20,239
pretty clear about that um when that
budget was presented a year ago. Uh

2772
04:21:16,479 --> 04:21:27,279
there's maybe a couple hundred,000 of
room, but um uh we pretty much have

2773
04:21:24,720 --> 04:21:33,760
appropriated up to that amount. So most
of what we're doing uh now um is moving

2774
04:21:31,040 --> 04:21:39,520
money within the approved budget.
Gotcha. And then my and maybe two more,

2775
04:21:36,239 --> 04:21:43,600
but my next question is for the shelter
endowment. I asked this question before,

2776
04:21:41,120 --> 04:21:48,880
but I know I had a um two conversations
with alders about it earlier. Um a

2777
04:21:46,560 --> 04:21:53,680
future council does not have to keep the
commitment that this council has made to

2778
04:21:51,520 --> 04:21:59,920
the endowment. Like they don't it's not
a binding thing for future council. So

2779
04:21:55,520 --> 04:22:03,680
if we so if um if we don't provide
whatever's left for example in the

2780
04:22:01,439 --> 04:22:08,319
contingent reserve to the shelter
towards his endowment the next council

2781
04:22:06,080 --> 04:22:14,000
can decide not to keep that commitment.
Correct.

2782
04:22:10,080 --> 04:22:19,920
» Can't bind future councils. So there's,
you know, when I say commitment, it's

2783
04:22:16,960 --> 04:22:24,960
it's an action by that council y that
would have paid um or said that 2

2784
04:22:22,960 --> 04:22:29,120
million will be paid over some period of
time. If that's not fulfilled, [snorts]

2785
04:22:26,960 --> 04:22:33,120
then obviously there are repercussions
for those trying to address the shelter

2786
04:22:31,439 --> 04:22:40,319
endowment.
And then I think my last one is um

2787
04:22:38,000 --> 04:22:46,159
you c if I understand correctly from our
finance meeting and from this meeting

2788
04:22:42,399 --> 04:22:51,920
you can't necessarily make any um
estimates or projections about what we

2789
04:22:49,359 --> 04:22:55,279
may need to have available to address
emergencies technically because the

2790
04:22:53,439 --> 04:22:59,520
emergency hasn't happened. I just want
to be sure the reason we don't see any

2791
04:22:57,439 --> 04:23:03,040
estimates for what we may need uh to
respond to any emergencies is because

2792
04:23:02,080 --> 04:23:06,880
that's not something that you can do
without the emergency having h happened.

2793
04:23:05,439 --> 04:23:10,560
I guess
>> well I think as I mentioned you know our

2794
04:23:08,640 --> 04:23:16,080
policy the city's policy has been to set
aside a half percent and that has been

2795
04:23:13,600 --> 04:23:21,520
sufficient for most emergencies.
Obviously a global pandemic is an

2796
04:23:18,720 --> 04:23:27,279
emergency for which a half a percent was
not enough and um

2797
04:23:23,840 --> 04:23:32,080
» and so but there were other responses
um the federal government responded the

2798
04:23:29,359 --> 04:23:38,479
state responded so funding was provided
that way. There have been other um

2799
04:23:34,880 --> 04:23:45,600
emergencies in the past uh particularly
um very dramatic snow emergencies where

2800
04:23:42,479 --> 04:23:50,239
um the the city may or the flooding in
2018 where the city may have received

2801
04:23:47,920 --> 04:23:54,399
FEMA funding from the federal government
to support that cost. Uh I think I

2802
04:23:52,960 --> 04:24:00,640
mentioned at the finance committee
meeting um the expenditure restraint

2803
04:23:56,880 --> 04:24:06,080
limit does not apply if uh the governor
declares an emergency

2804
04:24:03,040 --> 04:24:10,399
uh for example. So if we were to have a
dire snow emergency in the city and the

2805
04:24:08,080 --> 04:24:15,279
governor were to declare an emergency
then uh the expenditure restraint limit

2806
04:24:12,960 --> 04:24:21,359
um does not apply nor does the um the
levy limit in that situation.

2807
04:24:17,680 --> 04:24:26,479
» Gotcha. Thank you.
Thank you, Alder Alder Yugare.

2808
04:24:23,760 --> 04:24:33,520
» Thank you, Mayor uh Director Schmidiki.
The city has uh made it clear that uh we

2809
04:24:31,279 --> 04:24:39,040
do have some contingency contingency
plans in the event that uh we had to

2810
04:24:37,520 --> 04:24:45,279
defend
uh our elections this year given that

2811
04:24:42,720 --> 04:24:51,439
there have been numerous threats.
Uh would I be correct in assuming that

2812
04:24:48,479 --> 04:24:57,279
that is the kind of of emergency in
which we might have to uh draw against

2813
04:24:54,640 --> 04:25:02,399
the contingency reserve?
>> Well, the council has already adopted a

2814
04:24:59,199 --> 04:25:07,359
resolution that transferred $400,000
uh from the contingent reserve to the

2815
04:25:04,159 --> 04:25:12,800
clerk's office to help fund um you know
anticipated additional needs for the

2816
04:25:10,319 --> 04:25:16,399
upcoming election.
>> Thank you. You're welcome.

2817
04:25:16,960 --> 04:25:27,040
Thank you, Alder Alder Matthews.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to ask

2818
04:25:24,000 --> 04:25:33,040
so that I can make sure this is as clear
as possible for mostly the public. Um,

2819
04:25:30,800 --> 04:25:39,840
but when we say that we're very close to
the expenditure restraint limit, that is

2820
04:25:36,000 --> 04:25:46,560
within what we have
approved in our regular budget. Um but

2821
04:25:43,120 --> 04:25:54,800
we also have a $4 million
um projected surplus.

2822
04:25:49,600 --> 04:25:59,279
So right now we are really at $4 million
and then an additional couple

2823
04:25:57,359 --> 04:26:04,560
hundred,000 before we would hit the
expenditure restraint limit. Is that

2824
04:26:01,439 --> 04:26:10,800
understanding correct?
So the expenditure restraint limit is

2825
04:26:07,680 --> 04:26:18,800
based on the budget that's approved for
the city. And so um in that sense,

2826
04:26:16,080 --> 04:26:25,040
you're right. If if we don't need all of
that budget, then we continue to remain

2827
04:26:22,319 --> 04:26:31,279
under the expenditure restraint limit.
It only comes into effect um if we need

2828
04:26:28,640 --> 04:26:36,479
to appropriate more than what was
originally budgeted which um that's I

2829
04:26:35,040 --> 04:26:40,080
think what we're you know I'm trying to
emphasize in terms of that expenditure

2830
04:26:38,000 --> 04:26:45,600
restraint limit but you're correct in
terms of at the moment we're projecting

2831
04:26:42,239 --> 04:26:50,720
that the amount of that budget needed uh
we're about 4 million below that but we

2832
04:26:47,760 --> 04:26:56,319
did identify some other uh potential
costs including the million dollars of

2833
04:26:52,720 --> 04:27:03,920
response costs the um uh possible
prepaid for um um IT software costs and

2834
04:27:00,960 --> 04:27:11,120
then um the potential of that uh shelter
endowment and then any other issues that

2835
04:27:07,439 --> 04:27:16,080
that could arise. I did I did identify
fuel as a possibility uh as in those

2836
04:27:14,159 --> 04:27:21,199
costs.
>> Um thank you. And then just one more

2837
04:27:18,159 --> 04:27:27,359
thing. Um this I think was in the
presentation but I know my eyes don't

2838
04:27:24,080 --> 04:27:35,040
work very well. Uh so just to confirm
the current budget already has enough

2839
04:27:31,680 --> 04:27:39,279
budgeted for I think it's four regular
snow plow events through the end of

2840
04:27:37,520 --> 04:27:47,120
2026.
And then for like a big storm where

2841
04:27:41,920 --> 04:27:51,680
there's a lot of need to um pick up uh
you know fallen branches and things like

2842
04:27:49,840 --> 04:27:56,640
that does that come out of the regular
budget or is that something that is like

2843
04:27:54,640 --> 04:27:59,640
covered under the forestry special
charge?

2844
04:27:59,680 --> 04:28:07,680
» So I think your question is two parts.
There is the the uh projection that was

2845
04:28:04,800 --> 04:28:12,720
made uh back in May working with the
streets division is that um there was

2846
04:28:11,199 --> 04:28:18,640
sufficient
um budget authority in the streets

2847
04:28:14,960 --> 04:28:24,000
budget to pay for four general plows for
the remainder of this year. Um I think

2848
04:28:21,920 --> 04:28:31,279
your second question is around if
there's a specific event that involves

2849
04:28:27,680 --> 04:28:36,080
um forestry related activities. Yes,
those would uh uh depending on the type

2850
04:28:34,319 --> 04:28:40,319
of
you know related impacts those would

2851
04:28:38,800 --> 04:28:44,239
probably be covered by the urban
forestry special charge rather than the

2852
04:28:42,319 --> 04:28:51,159
general fund.
>> Thank you.

2853
04:28:47,199 --> 04:28:51,159
» Thank you, Alder Alder Tishler.

2854
04:28:51,840 --> 04:29:00,800
Yeah, you you uh Dave, you mentioned um
fuel prices and I'm thinking um you know

2855
04:28:57,920 --> 04:29:04,720
we pre you said we prepay for uh for for
it, but I'm assuming we prepay for for

2856
04:29:03,199 --> 04:29:10,720
fuel prices and I'm especially thinking
of diesel prices right now. And I guess

2857
04:29:07,680 --> 04:29:16,000
my question is, do you do you anticipate
if the way things are kind of going in

2858
04:29:12,560 --> 04:29:21,199
the world, we might be um having to dip
into the contingency fund to pay for uh

2859
04:29:18,080 --> 04:29:24,319
for diesel fuel? And also the a question
on that also is do we pay yearly? Is

2860
04:29:23,120 --> 04:29:29,279
that that does that start at the
beginning of the of the uh uh calendar

2861
04:29:27,199 --> 04:29:35,040
year?
>> Uh thanks for that question, Alder.

2862
04:29:31,040 --> 04:29:41,359
Regarding um fuel prices um we have had
a practice over the last several years

2863
04:29:37,600 --> 04:29:46,960
of um we have we have two major fuel
budgets. One is in metro transit for the

2864
04:29:44,399 --> 04:29:53,840
buses obviously the other is in fleet
for the pretty much the remaining

2865
04:29:49,040 --> 04:29:58,560
vehicles in the city. Um we have uh used
what are called futures contracts for

2866
04:29:56,000 --> 04:30:05,439
the metro fuel purchases so that there's
stability in that price and for 2026

2867
04:30:03,120 --> 04:30:11,359
um we we have futures contracts so that
price is locked in for metro for 20 uh

2868
04:30:09,120 --> 04:30:16,479
26 when I'm talking about the impact of
fuel prices this year that is on the

2869
04:30:13,760 --> 04:30:22,640
fleet budget and for fleet we buy off
the spot market so we're just buying um

2870
04:30:20,080 --> 04:30:26,880
as we need it. We may be buying a, you
know, one to two months in advance. Uh

2871
04:30:25,199 --> 04:30:34,880
we're not we don't sort of buy a whole
year's worth of um fuel, but um we buy

2872
04:30:31,840 --> 04:30:40,880
it as we need it. So that's where we
might see some pressure uh with the

2873
04:30:37,040 --> 04:30:46,960
rising fuel costs is um is in the fleet
budget and having sufficient amounts

2874
04:30:44,399 --> 04:30:52,000
there. Now, for 2027,
um we don't have futures contracts for

2875
04:30:49,680 --> 04:30:58,239
Metro anymore just because of the
volatility in um uh in fuel prices that

2876
04:30:55,520 --> 04:31:03,920
we've seen over the last
uh several months. Um there really

2877
04:31:00,560 --> 04:31:09,359
hasn't been a good opportunity to do a
futures contract for metro fuel prices.

2878
04:31:07,439 --> 04:31:13,840
We have tried to account for that in the
cost to continue estimates for 2027, but

2879
04:31:12,239 --> 04:31:18,640
as I mentioned, we're it's a very
volatile situation. We're trying to

2880
04:31:16,159 --> 04:31:24,920
continue to monitor it and, you know,
see what the sort of levels of

2881
04:31:20,399 --> 04:31:24,920
confidence and estimates might be.

2882
04:31:27,760 --> 04:31:36,720
» Thank you, Alder Alder Okovitz.
>> Uh, thank you, Mayor. Um, this one's for

2883
04:31:33,600 --> 04:31:44,560
uh Director Miklovski.
Um for item six in the proposed process

2884
04:31:41,120 --> 04:31:49,520
for the grant applications, it talks
about

2885
04:31:46,640 --> 04:31:54,000
considering proportionate share of loss,
uh relative size, how the funding would

2886
04:31:51,840 --> 04:32:00,000
be using or how the funding would be
used by the business. Do city staff have

2887
04:31:57,120 --> 04:32:06,319
experience administering a similar grant
program? I I just ask because it seems

2888
04:32:02,000 --> 04:32:10,319
like relatively complicated to try and
estimate all of these variables and then

2889
04:32:08,319 --> 04:32:15,960
come to
a conclusion that is

2890
04:32:12,960 --> 04:32:15,960
fair.

2891
04:32:19,680 --> 04:32:26,640
» Uh thank you, Alder. Um we do have some
experience. In 2020, we had a small

2892
04:32:24,720 --> 04:32:31,520
business equity and recovery program
that provided up to $10,000 for

2893
04:32:29,600 --> 04:32:37,600
businesses that could show a revenue
loss and also for covering PPE related

2894
04:32:35,040 --> 04:32:42,239
expenses. And and so yes, for that
particular program, we did have

2895
04:32:39,279 --> 04:32:46,479
businesses submit tax returns and other
financial information that we took look

2896
04:32:44,159 --> 04:32:51,040
at to determine eligibility for that
funding. Okay.

2897
04:32:47,760 --> 04:32:55,840
» And what was the size of that program?
uh total grant dollars to

2898
04:32:53,359 --> 04:33:02,319
» total for an individual business was up
to 10,000. The total program

2899
04:32:58,960 --> 04:33:06,240
was I think we got over one and a half
million total that we distributed. That

2900
04:33:04,561 --> 04:33:10,879
was a combination of city dollars and
also federal funding.

2901
04:33:07,760 --> 04:33:18,000
» Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Alder. I have no other alders

2902
04:33:13,760 --> 04:33:24,400
in the queue with questions for staff.
So, thank you, directors.

2903
04:33:20,734 --> 04:33:28,160
[snorts] Um, President Madison, on
number 59, a motion, please.

2904
04:33:26,320 --> 04:33:31,039
» A motion to adopt
>> the substitute.

2905
04:33:29,760 --> 04:33:36,680
» Yes. Sorry.
>> The motion is to adopt the substitute.

2906
04:33:33,199 --> 04:33:36,680
Is there a second?

2907
04:33:37,279 --> 04:33:44,879
Seconded by Alder Mayor. Uh, moved and
seconded to adopt. Is there discussion

2908
04:33:42,480 --> 04:33:48,561
on this item?
Alder mayor.

2909
04:33:46,639 --> 04:33:53,680
Thank you, mayor.
Let me get some microphone practice. Is

2910
04:33:50,561 --> 04:33:57,279
this about right? Okay. Uh, this
resolution seeks to establish a program

2911
04:33:55,600 --> 04:34:02,080
to help businesses impacted by the
extended protest in the wake of the

2912
04:33:59,119 --> 04:34:05,279
police killing of Cory Ruiz. The 29
businesses that would benefit are vital

2913
04:34:03,840 --> 04:34:09,600
parts of the neighborhood. They are
places people buy food, share meals with

2914
04:34:07,439 --> 04:34:12,959
friends and family, gather to commune
with neighbors, listen to live music,

2915
04:34:11,359 --> 04:34:16,561
shop for clothes and sunundry items, and
more. There are places that have given

2916
04:34:14,799 --> 04:34:20,000
back to our community in countless ways,
holding fundraisers, supporting our

2917
04:34:18,080 --> 04:34:24,080
festivals, and sponsoring amateur sports
teams. During that time in July and

2918
04:34:22,480 --> 04:34:28,240
August, some businesses were completely
closed, others open, but with

2919
04:34:25,760 --> 04:34:32,160
drastically diminished foot traffic. And
it's about more than just the businesses

2920
04:34:29,760 --> 04:34:36,480
and business owners. We estimate that
those 29 businesses that would be

2921
04:34:34,080 --> 04:34:41,039
eligible for this program employ between
3 and 400 workers. These are retail

2922
04:34:39,119 --> 04:34:46,240
workers, servers, stalkers, and
cashiers. They're also rent payers,

2923
04:34:43,199 --> 04:34:50,320
property taxpayers, and again neighbors.
During that time, some were laid off,

2924
04:34:48,080 --> 04:34:55,039
others had hours cut. A few were
fortunate to be paid by these businesses

2925
04:34:52,320 --> 04:34:58,959
when they couldn't work. Recovery in the
neighborhood after the tragic police

2926
04:34:56,480 --> 04:35:02,799
violence of July 22nd has taken and will
continue to take many forms. This

2927
04:35:01,119 --> 04:35:06,480
program addresses one of those recovery
efforts by ensuring that these vital and

2928
04:35:04,639 --> 04:35:09,199
cherished employers remain in our
neighborhood.

2929
04:35:08,160 --> 04:35:12,000
Partnering with the division of
planning, community, and economic

2930
04:35:10,480 --> 04:35:15,760
development, we initially requested
$300,000.

2931
04:35:13,680 --> 04:35:19,439
100,000 from budgeted but unspent funds
in the economic development division and

2932
04:35:17,279 --> 04:35:23,199
other agencies and 200,000 from the
contingent reserve. Finance chose to

2933
04:35:21,760 --> 04:35:27,520
approve an alternate that would strike
the portion from the contingent reserve.

2934
04:35:25,439 --> 04:35:32,561
While I fully understand the risk
aversion to drawing down the reserve and

2935
04:35:29,439 --> 04:35:36,400
carefully consider any request to do so,
I do feel that this situation is just a

2936
04:35:34,480 --> 04:35:41,680
sort of contingency the reserve ought to
be used for. However, counting the votes

2937
04:35:39,359 --> 04:35:46,561
and needing to get to 15, I decided that
the best way forward would be to fully

2938
04:35:43,439 --> 04:35:50,160
pursue the remaining $100,000 in line
with the finance committee's

2939
04:35:47,760 --> 04:35:54,719
recommendation. That amount can still do
a lot of good. A lot of good to address

2940
04:35:53,279 --> 04:35:58,400
the concern of setting a precedent of
aiding businesses. We already support

2941
04:35:56,719 --> 04:36:02,561
businesses financially in many, many
ways. We have a building facade

2942
04:36:00,400 --> 04:36:06,561
improvement grant. We have graffiti
removal programs. We support the bid, a

2943
04:36:05,039 --> 04:36:10,400
public private partnership that supports
businesses on State Street and around

2944
04:36:07,840 --> 04:36:14,080
the capital. Our hotel room tax goes to
promote tourism. Perhaps most

2945
04:36:12,561 --> 04:36:17,680
significantly, we have a robust tax
incremental financing program that helps

2946
04:36:15,920 --> 04:36:21,520
all manner of construction projects get
done. We invest millions in these

2947
04:36:19,760 --> 04:36:25,840
projects because we know that successful
housing starts and growing businesses

2948
04:36:23,680 --> 04:36:29,439
generate economic activity that will
allow the city to recoup that investment

2949
04:36:27,520 --> 04:36:33,279
many times over.
Now, here's a chance to help keep

2950
04:36:31,119 --> 04:36:37,199
businesses open, struggling due to no
failing of their own. It's a chance to

2951
04:36:35,359 --> 04:36:41,920
keep workers employed and to keep Willie
Street the vibrant place that it is.

2952
04:36:40,160 --> 04:36:46,000
Lastly, you heard from the co-president
of the Williamson Marquette Business

2953
04:36:43,279 --> 04:36:49,840
Alliance that they have raised $50,000.
Other fundraisers aimed at worker relief

2954
04:36:47,920 --> 04:36:53,600
have been successful. Destination
Madison is stepping in to help promote

2955
04:36:51,359 --> 04:36:57,119
these businesses as well. And just last
Sunday, I attended a benefit for the

2956
04:36:55,119 --> 04:37:01,119
workers of Crystal Corner, graciously
held by Mickey's Tavern. Because this is

2957
04:36:59,279 --> 04:37:04,639
a tight-knit commu community, a
tight-knit neighborhood that supports

2958
04:37:02,561 --> 04:37:09,279
each other in tragedy and supports each
other in recovery and healing. All these

2959
04:37:07,119 --> 04:37:14,160
things along with $100,000 already
budgeted but unspent will go a long way.

2960
04:37:11,600 --> 04:37:17,439
I urge you to join me in voting yes.
Thank you.

2961
04:37:15,840 --> 04:37:23,080
» Thank you, Alder. Alder Harrington
McKenna.

2962
04:37:19,359 --> 04:37:23,080
» Thank you, Madame Mayor.

2963
04:37:23,920 --> 04:37:33,119
When first elected in 2015,
questions about policing, transparency,

2964
04:37:31,600 --> 04:37:39,359
accountability,
and community trust were already hard

2965
04:37:36,080 --> 04:37:46,400
conversations here in Madison.
I supported bodywn cameras then and now.

2966
04:37:44,240 --> 04:37:51,039
I believe body warn cameras could
provide one more tool for

2967
04:37:49,199 --> 04:37:57,680
accountability.
I never believed cameras were the answer

2968
04:37:54,000 --> 04:38:03,920
to everything. A camera can record an
encounter. It cannot provide independent

2969
04:38:01,359 --> 04:38:09,920
civilian oversight.
That is why Madison created the office

2970
04:38:06,400 --> 04:38:14,160
of the independent monitor. If we create
an office and give it serious

2971
04:38:12,480 --> 04:38:22,080
responsibilities,
we also have an obligation to provide

2972
04:38:17,840 --> 04:38:28,719
reasonable resources for that work. That
is why I support the pro the proposed

2973
04:38:25,600 --> 04:38:32,959
transfer to address immediate staffing
and service needs.

2974
04:38:30,080 --> 04:38:37,600
» Alder, we're the item before us is the
business support fund, not the office of

2975
04:38:35,760 --> 04:38:41,600
the independent monitor. Well, I'm
getting into that if you allow me.

2976
04:38:40,080 --> 04:38:46,799
» As long as you get there, Alder.
>> I I'm I've got a few minutes and I'll

2977
04:38:43,840 --> 04:38:51,039
get there.
>> And the reason I need to get there is

2978
04:38:48,480 --> 04:38:56,160
that um I'm driving out of my lane and I
just want to make sure people know why I

2979
04:38:53,279 --> 04:39:01,760
drove out of my lane.
That is why I support the proposed

2980
04:38:58,799 --> 04:39:08,561
transfer to address immediate staffing
and service needs. My support for this

2981
04:39:04,799 --> 04:39:13,039
funding is not an endorsement of every
decision

2982
04:39:10,080 --> 04:39:19,920
nor the individual involved in the
oversight process. Funding is not a

2983
04:39:16,000 --> 04:39:25,600
blank check and oversight is not
immunity from accountability.

2984
04:39:22,879 --> 04:39:32,160
I have heard concerns and criticisms
regarding both the independent monitor

2985
04:39:28,959 --> 04:39:38,400
and the data analysts. Those concerns
should not be brushed aside. But

2986
04:39:35,439 --> 04:39:45,280
responsible governance means not
governing based on personalities.

2987
04:39:42,000 --> 04:39:51,680
It means asking whether the structure is
sound, whether expectations are clear,

2988
04:39:48,958 --> 04:39:58,718
whether professional standards are being
met, and whether the office has the

2989
04:39:54,718 --> 04:40:03,440
resources necessary to do the job we
assign.

2990
04:40:00,240 --> 04:40:08,638
We have asked hard questions of our
police department. We should also ask

2991
04:40:06,320 --> 04:40:16,160
hard questions of the independent
monitor and the oversight system. This

2992
04:40:12,320 --> 04:40:22,480
is not about choosing sides. It's about
doing the job. After years of public

2993
04:40:19,360 --> 04:40:29,120
service, I've learned that building a
structure is much easier easier than

2994
04:40:26,160 --> 04:40:35,680
sustaining the office
that provides that structure. The test

2995
04:40:32,160 --> 04:40:41,120
is whether we sustain it es especially
when it is tested. My commitment is

2996
04:40:38,560 --> 04:40:47,120
straightforward transparency,
accountability, appropriate resources,

2997
04:40:44,080 --> 04:40:54,080
and measurable performance.
I support the institution but insist on

2998
04:40:50,480 --> 04:41:01,040
accountability from it. And now I'll get
to what's before us.

2999
04:40:57,840 --> 04:41:07,920
As the common council considers items 59
and 60, I believe we should look

3000
04:41:03,920 --> 04:41:12,878
carefully at the principles and consist
consistency,

3001
04:41:09,680 --> 04:41:18,718
precedent, and responsible governance.
In 2020, following the murder of George

3002
04:41:16,160 --> 04:41:24,560
Floyd and the destruction that occurred
on State Street, the city of Madison

3003
04:41:21,760 --> 04:41:30,958
recognized that extraordinary
circumstances required an extraordinary

3004
04:41:28,000 --> 04:41:38,560
response. At that time, the city
considered a $250,000

3005
04:41:34,958 --> 04:41:44,480
downtown recovery program. Although that
specific appropriation was not

3006
04:41:41,280 --> 04:41:51,040
ultimately adopted, Madison expanded
existing economic development tools and

3007
04:41:47,920 --> 04:41:58,958
later provided significant significant
recovery assistance to small businesses

3008
04:41:54,878 --> 04:42:06,160
through that program. The larger
principle was clear. When businesses are

3009
04:42:02,320 --> 04:42:13,360
harmed by extraordinary circumstances
beyond their control, the city has a

3010
04:42:09,840 --> 04:42:19,280
role in helping stabilization.
Businesses in the Williamson Street and

3011
04:42:16,160 --> 04:42:25,360
Bowwin Street area experienced
significant disruption,

3012
04:42:21,840 --> 04:42:32,320
financial loss during an extended period
of protest and public safety response.

3013
04:42:29,440 --> 04:42:38,320
The original proposal for item 15
provided $300,000

3014
04:42:35,040 --> 04:42:44,878
in stabilization assistance,
$200,000 from the city's contingent

3015
04:42:41,680 --> 04:42:51,440
reserve, $100,000
from available department savings. The

3016
04:42:48,320 --> 04:42:57,200
finance committee reduced that proposal
to $100,000

3017
04:42:54,000 --> 04:43:03,120
and removed the contingent reserve
funding. I believe the council should

3018
04:42:59,840 --> 04:43:10,798
reconsider that decision. The question I
continue to ask is if this is not the

3019
04:43:06,798 --> 04:43:19,680
type of unexpected circumstances for
which we maintain a contingent reserve

3020
04:43:14,798 --> 04:43:27,200
then what is a contingency fund exists?
Because no city can predict every

3021
04:43:23,600 --> 04:43:32,878
emergency, disruption, or unexpected
expense when an annual budget is

3022
04:43:29,840 --> 04:43:39,120
adopted. We should always be thought
thoughtful and responsible about how

3023
04:43:36,000 --> 04:43:45,600
those dollars are used, but protecting
the fund should not become more

3024
04:43:42,400 --> 04:43:52,638
important than using it for the purpose
for which it was created. Item 60 raises

3025
04:43:49,360 --> 04:43:59,840
an important question of consistency.
Under item 60, the city is being asked

3026
04:43:56,240 --> 04:44:04,798
to use contingent reserve funding for
unexpected costs related to the office

3027
04:44:02,798 --> 04:44:11,280
of the independent monitor and the
city's response to this broader critical

3028
04:44:08,480 --> 04:44:17,040
question. I support providing the
independent monitor the resources

3029
04:44:13,520 --> 04:44:22,718
necessary to perform the work the city
created that office to do. But

3030
04:44:19,600 --> 04:44:27,280
responsible government requires trans
consistency.

3031
04:44:24,240 --> 04:44:32,400
If we recognize that this incident
created unexpected costs for city

3032
04:44:30,000 --> 04:44:39,840
government, then we should also
recognize that it created unexpected

3033
04:44:36,400 --> 04:44:44,638
economic harm for for small neighborhood
businesses and their employees.

3034
04:44:42,560 --> 04:44:49,440
Businesses did not create the
circumstances.

3035
04:44:46,160 --> 04:44:57,200
Their employees did not create them. Yet
they experience

3036
04:44:51,600 --> 04:45:03,440
um Yet they experience lost customers,
interrupted operations,

3037
04:44:59,600 --> 04:45:10,000
payroll pressures, rent obligations,
utilities, insurance costs, inventory

3038
04:45:06,798 --> 04:45:16,480
losses, and uncertainty.
Approximately $100,000

3039
04:45:12,480 --> 04:45:22,320
spread among nearly 29 businesses does
not go very far. That is why I believe

3040
04:45:19,600 --> 04:45:28,798
the council should consider restoring
meaningful funding from the contingent

3041
04:45:25,120 --> 04:45:34,480
reserve. This should not be framed as
business versus protesters.

3042
04:45:32,160 --> 04:45:40,400
It should not be framed as economic
recovery versus racial justice. And it

3043
04:45:38,240 --> 04:45:45,520
should not be framed as supporting
businesses instead of supporting police

3044
04:45:43,200 --> 04:45:52,160
accountability and independent
oversight. We can hold more than one

3045
04:45:48,798 --> 04:45:59,040
responsibility at the same time. We can
project the right for pe for peaceful

3046
04:45:55,600 --> 04:46:04,320
protest. We can demand accountability
and transparency. We can properly

3047
04:46:02,160 --> 04:46:11,120
support the office of the independent
monitor and we can make sure that small

3048
04:46:08,480 --> 04:46:17,200
businesses are not left carrying the
financial burden of a public crisis

3049
04:46:13,760 --> 04:46:22,560
alone. That is inconsistency.
That is respon that is responsible

3050
04:46:20,958 --> 04:46:28,958
governance.
As a member of this council and as the

3051
04:46:26,160 --> 04:46:35,120
alder representing district 20, I
believe our decision should be fair,

3052
04:46:32,080 --> 04:46:42,000
consistent, and responsive to the people
who depend on city government to act

3053
04:46:38,000 --> 04:46:48,958
when extraordinary circumstances arise.
The contingent reserve should be

3054
04:46:45,120 --> 04:46:56,878
protected from unnecessary spending, but
it should also be used when a genuine

3055
04:46:53,360 --> 04:47:03,000
unanticipated need arises.
This was one of those moments.

3056
04:47:03,200 --> 04:47:13,440
And I read that because um um I do not
want to have it

3057
04:47:11,600 --> 04:47:20,080
considered is that I'm crossing the
line. What I'm saying is is that

3058
04:47:17,120 --> 04:47:27,360
the city has some responsibility as
well. The question to be answered, what

3059
04:47:23,680 --> 04:47:35,520
was expected, what happened, and what
needs to change. A contingency fund is a

3060
04:47:32,958 --> 04:47:44,080
dedicated tool
of money, dedicated pool of money set

3061
04:47:39,120 --> 04:47:48,878
aside to pay for unexpected expenses or
financial emergencies.

3062
04:47:47,308 --> 04:47:56,160
[snorts]
Accountability does not end at the IM's

3063
04:47:52,240 --> 04:48:03,200
office. It includes the mayor's office,
common council leadership, and it

3064
04:47:59,680 --> 04:48:09,480
includes the common council. So, ends my
reading.

3065
04:48:06,160 --> 04:48:09,480
» Thank you, Alder.

3066
04:48:09,600 --> 04:48:15,520
» All right. Item 59 has been moved and
seconded. Is there further discussion?

3067
04:48:14,320 --> 04:48:19,760
Alderfield.
>> Thank you, Mayor. So, I am sympathetic

3068
04:48:17,920 --> 04:48:23,120
with the intent behind this motion out
of love for this part of the city, which

3069
04:48:21,440 --> 04:48:27,520
is near where I my husband and I live
before we moved further east. This was

3070
04:48:25,360 --> 04:48:31,360
one of several reasons why I oppose the
street closure and its occupation.

3071
04:48:29,600 --> 04:48:34,718
However, I can't get past my discomfort
with the city using its extremely

3072
04:48:32,718 --> 04:48:38,560
limited resources to backfill business
revenues when there's so much more that

3073
04:48:36,958 --> 04:48:42,320
we are asked to fund, but that the city
cannot afford. If the council adopts

3074
04:48:40,958 --> 04:48:46,000
this amendment, I don't know what we're
supposed to tell businesses around the

3075
04:48:43,760 --> 04:48:49,680
city who face revenue disruptions from
the city's own streets reconstruction

3076
04:48:47,760 --> 04:48:53,840
projects, which we just asked them to
eat. The city is not in a financial

3077
04:48:52,240 --> 04:48:58,798
position to do it all, no matter how
much we might wish otherwise. I'm going

3078
04:48:55,600 --> 04:49:03,000
to vote no.
>> Thank you, Alder. Alder Jeang.

3079
04:49:03,200 --> 04:49:11,840
» In the past month and a half, I have
spent time along Williamson Street. I

3080
04:49:08,718 --> 04:49:16,560
have been to the community circle at
Demetrol Park and um have helped with

3081
04:49:14,480 --> 04:49:23,920
item recovery at the church parking lot
and I have also contributed context in

3082
04:49:21,120 --> 04:49:30,240
conversations led by community members
um to support the workers who have lost

3083
04:49:26,400 --> 04:49:33,920
their working hours um and faced risks
of meeting their own need or of not

3084
04:49:32,240 --> 04:49:40,718
being able to meet their own needs while
supporting other people in service of

3085
04:49:36,160 --> 04:49:45,360
what society should look like um and yet
at the same time governing

3086
04:49:43,120 --> 04:49:52,798
is about responsibility and it's about
our limits and so there are asks there

3087
04:49:48,320 --> 04:49:58,638
have been asks made of us as Madison's
decision makers that we would really

3088
04:49:55,440 --> 04:50:05,280
greatly struggle to fulfill at any time.
Um but in light of this concern, I had

3089
04:50:02,798 --> 04:50:10,000
looked into where this [snorts] funding
is coming from and in light of the fact

3090
04:50:07,920 --> 04:50:18,320
that this is
within the EDDD um and then within

3091
04:50:15,280 --> 04:50:25,120
planning and from under spending within
EDDD and also um planning and community

3092
04:50:21,520 --> 04:50:30,480
and economic development. Um, it seems
like this is a time where we have some

3093
04:50:27,520 --> 04:50:34,400
leverage to be able to try to start and
do something.

3094
04:50:32,240 --> 04:50:38,638
And I guess to bring it back to an
anecdote, um, while talking to an

3095
04:50:36,560 --> 04:50:44,878
organizer, they said that if it was not
for the positive memories at their

3096
04:50:42,160 --> 04:50:52,080
favorite bar, Crystal Corner, um, they
would not have been able to come back to

3097
04:50:46,878 --> 04:50:56,480
this site of trauma. Um and so it really
to me highlighted how these businesses

3098
04:50:55,040 --> 04:51:03,920
these businesses are not only
circulating money within um and for

3099
04:51:00,958 --> 04:51:11,440
neighbors and Madison but also to
provide positive grounding experiences

3100
04:51:06,560 --> 04:51:17,280
for everyone um and can serve as
reminders of what [snorts] is possible,

3101
04:51:14,638 --> 04:51:22,400
what is positive and how to ground
people.

3102
04:51:19,920 --> 04:51:29,600
Thank you, Alder.
I have no other alders in the queue

3103
04:51:26,000 --> 04:51:37,200
wishing to speak.
Right. So, item 59 has been moved and

3104
04:51:33,280 --> 04:51:43,440
seconded, anticipating disagreement.
All those in favor of the uh substitute,

3105
04:51:42,000 --> 04:51:49,520
we'll have a roll call. Don't worry,
Alder.

3106
04:51:44,958 --> 04:51:55,200
Um, all those in favor of the substitute
uh will say I. Those opposed, no. As

3107
04:51:53,040 --> 04:51:57,440
your name is called and the clerk will
please call the role.

3108
04:51:56,638 --> 04:51:59,040
» Thank you.
>> Alder mayor.

3109
04:51:58,320 --> 04:52:03,920
» Hi.
>> Aler mayor I.

3110
04:52:02,638 --> 04:52:06,400
» Alder Enseu
>> I.

3111
04:52:04,320 --> 04:52:09,840
» Alder Segu I. Alder O'Brien.
>> No.

3112
04:52:07,120 --> 04:52:12,320
» Alder Brian. No. Alder Ohich.
>> Alder Hovich. No. Alder Pritchette.

3113
04:52:11,840 --> 04:52:16,638
» No.
>> Alder Pritchette. No. Alder Tistler.

3114
04:52:15,600 --> 04:52:19,600
» Uh, no.
>> Alder Tistler. No. Alder.

3115
04:52:18,958 --> 04:52:23,120
» I.
>> Alder. I. Alder Vidver.

3116
04:52:22,400 --> 04:52:27,840
» I.
>> Alder Ver. I. Alder. Jang.

3117
04:52:26,878 --> 04:52:31,040
» Ilder.
>> Jang. I. Alder Evers.

3118
04:52:30,480 --> 04:52:33,520
» I.
>> Alder Evers. I. Alder. Field.

3119
04:52:32,878 --> 04:52:36,958
» No.
>> Alderfield. No. Alder Figuro Cole.

3120
04:52:36,080 --> 04:52:43,200
» No. Aler.
>> Figural. Cole. No. Alder Glenn.

3121
04:52:40,160 --> 04:52:45,600
» Alder Glenn. I alter. I
>> Gar I Alder Harrington McKenna

3122
04:52:45,040 --> 04:52:50,160
» I
>> Alder Harrington McKenna I

3123
04:52:48,798 --> 04:52:53,958
» terribly sorry Alder Gar could you
repeat your vote for me please

3124
04:52:58,320 --> 04:53:02,440
» I'm terribly sorry about that

3125
04:53:02,560 --> 04:53:08,400
» Linkella
>> I link I Lieberman

3126
04:53:05,840 --> 04:53:11,440
» I Lieberman I Madison
>> no

3127
04:53:09,280 --> 04:53:16,080
» Madison no
Martinez Rutherford.

3128
04:53:13,840 --> 04:53:19,120
» Martinez Rutherford. I Alder Matthews
>> I.

3129
04:53:16,958 --> 04:53:23,600
» Matthews. I We have 13 eyes and seven
nos.

3130
04:53:20,878 --> 04:53:28,798
» With 13 eyes and seven nos. The motion
fails. It is a budget amendment. So it

3131
04:53:25,760 --> 04:53:38,160
requires 15 votes.
All right. That will take us then to

3132
04:53:33,680 --> 04:53:42,638
item 60 which is legisar 94261 amending
the 2026 adopted operating budget by

3133
04:53:40,958 --> 04:53:47,600
transferring funds from the contingent
reserve to the office of the independent

3134
04:53:45,280 --> 04:53:51,200
monitor for additional staffing and
services costs and directing staff to

3135
04:53:49,600 --> 04:53:55,840
provide a full accounting of costs
associated with the city's critical

3136
04:53:52,798 --> 04:54:05,120
incident response between July 22nd,
2026 and September 8th, 2026. six. Uh,

3137
04:54:00,480 --> 04:54:08,240
on item 60, a motion, please. Alder
Matthews.

3138
04:54:07,760 --> 04:54:12,718
» Um,
>> or did you have questions for staff?

3139
04:54:10,320 --> 04:54:16,560
» I was buzzing in to do questions for
staff, but I can make a motion.

3140
04:54:14,718 --> 04:54:21,040
» We can go to questions for staff first.
Go ahead, Alder.

3141
04:54:17,520 --> 04:54:29,360
» Okay. Um, so this question comes from
the previous um, presentation that was

3142
04:54:25,200 --> 04:54:35,280
just given for item 59. Um, and so I
just wanted to ask to be sure because I

3143
04:54:31,600 --> 04:54:42,560
also noticed that this item is not
listed under needing a supermajority. Is

3144
04:54:38,080 --> 04:54:47,200
that because it's underneath the $50,000
limit that can be administratively

3145
04:54:45,200 --> 04:54:52,958
transferred out of the contingent
reserve? Did I see that correctly on the

3146
04:54:49,680 --> 04:54:57,840
slide or is this just like a mistake?
it it's because the motion from finance

3147
04:54:56,320 --> 04:55:00,000
committee is to place on file which
doesn't require 15 votes.

3148
04:54:59,520 --> 04:55:05,040
» Okay.
>> So to affirmatively to pass it if if the

3149
04:55:02,958 --> 04:55:10,000
motion was changed to adopt it would
require 15 votes.

3150
04:55:07,600 --> 04:55:14,080
» Could I
have the motion be to have staff

3151
04:55:12,320 --> 04:55:19,840
administratively
transfer the amount out of

3152
04:55:16,240 --> 04:55:24,718
» No. If the council I mean it staff if
staff want to administratively transfer

3153
04:55:22,240 --> 04:55:27,040
something they the council doesn't speak
to that.

3154
04:55:25,280 --> 04:55:32,000
» Mhm. Okay. That's fair. I just had seen
that and that wasn't something that had

3155
04:55:29,120 --> 04:55:36,958
gone or been brought up in any of my
previous conversations. So thank you.

3156
04:55:34,480 --> 04:55:43,360
» Thank you. Alder Alder Lieberman.
Questions for staff?

3157
04:55:38,160 --> 04:55:50,798
» Yes. Um, I was hoping if uh uh Monitor
Glass uh was available for questions. If

3158
04:55:46,480 --> 04:55:55,200
not, um I know Greg is here, but I had
some questions regarding uh how the

3159
04:55:53,600 --> 04:56:00,160
office of the independent monitor would
use the funds.

3160
04:55:58,240 --> 04:56:05,600
» I think Alder Matthews might be able to
speak to that. Um I I just specifically

3161
04:56:02,798 --> 04:56:09,520
wanted to know for the amount that is uh
dedicated for training and conferences

3162
04:56:07,440 --> 04:56:14,480
if we could just get some more specifics
on what those training and conferences

3163
04:56:12,160 --> 04:56:20,638
were and specifically
uh how they would help with the taking

3164
04:56:18,000 --> 04:56:27,680
on the additional workload that had been
mentioned uh before

3165
04:56:22,958 --> 04:56:32,240
due to the the Cory Ruiz shooting.
>> Alder Matthews, are you able to speak to

3166
04:56:29,760 --> 04:56:37,600
that? Yeah. Um I can speak to that. I
think so. Um it is specifically for and

3167
04:56:35,760 --> 04:56:44,240
I think it's in the body of the
resolution but for um I think seven

3168
04:56:42,560 --> 04:56:52,958
board members and staff to be able to go
to Nicole this year. Um and

3169
04:56:49,280 --> 04:56:58,878
while that does not um
immediately

3170
04:56:54,878 --> 04:57:04,240
move forward actions um
that relate to the needs from this

3171
04:57:01,600 --> 04:57:10,878
event. Um
it is a very clear way that money could

3172
04:57:08,718 --> 04:57:17,360
be invested into the office this year
and spent this year. Um there are a lot

3173
04:57:13,760 --> 04:57:22,080
of um restrictions.
It was very hard to find even money that

3174
04:57:19,760 --> 04:57:28,240
we could give them because they have
such a small capacity to be able to even

3175
04:57:24,560 --> 04:57:34,400
spend additional money. Um
and I know that many folks have a lot of

3176
04:57:30,798 --> 04:57:40,798
concerns when it comes to
some of the oversight or the

3177
04:57:37,440 --> 04:57:46,320
accountability of the office. And I had
noticed in some of my research that we

3178
04:57:43,840 --> 04:57:51,680
really cut their training and conference
budget basically right before the

3179
04:57:49,120 --> 04:57:58,080
majority of the count like the new board
came on. Um so this seemed like an

3180
04:57:55,520 --> 04:58:04,560
investment that we could make now to
help

3181
04:58:00,320 --> 04:58:10,878
um have a better board and office
functioning in 2027.

3182
04:58:07,120 --> 04:58:16,040
um if [snorts] that kind of helps.
Thank you all. There are there

3183
04:58:12,080 --> 04:58:16,040
additional questions for staff.

3184
04:58:17,920 --> 04:58:25,718
Seeing none, then President Madison, a
motion, please.

3185
04:58:22,718 --> 04:58:25,718
Uh

3186
04:58:27,360 --> 04:58:36,080
» can you hear me?
>> Yes. So just to make sure I am sure um

3187
04:58:32,958 --> 04:58:40,638
what's before us is to pass the finance
committee's motion to place on file. So

3188
04:58:38,718 --> 04:58:47,000
motion to place on file.
>> The motion out of finances to place on

3189
04:58:42,480 --> 04:58:47,000
file. Is there a second?

3190
04:58:49,040 --> 04:58:58,160
Moved and seconded to place on file. Uh
is there discussion on item 60? Alder

3191
04:58:56,160 --> 04:59:02,718
Glenn.
Yeah, I'm not going to uh I've said

3192
04:59:00,560 --> 04:59:07,920
enough at finance the other week. I'm
not going to talk about the 28,500

3193
04:59:05,760 --> 04:59:11,792
indirectly.
Um

3194
04:59:10,080 --> 04:59:17,280
cuz I'm not I mean if we couldn't
[clears throat] pass $100,000 I I'm not

3195
04:59:14,480 --> 04:59:22,400
going to even give anyone the pleasure.
Um,

3196
04:59:18,798 --> 04:59:30,240
what I'd like to say is that when I
decided to run for an al as an alder,

3197
04:59:27,280 --> 04:59:37,760
I did it because most of the community
knew me as a system disruptor, like in

3198
04:59:33,760 --> 04:59:45,040
human form. I wanted to get in and stop
the gatekeeping and the upholding

3199
04:59:41,120 --> 04:59:50,798
um and the continuous of watching people
like me be killed in the streets and

3200
04:59:48,160 --> 04:59:56,638
sent to prison and
disorderly conducts at a rate that puts

3201
04:59:54,000 --> 05:00:03,200
our city
on a map that we shouldn't be on if

3202
04:59:59,520 --> 05:00:09,200
we're who we say we are. And then what I
found out was that

3203
05:00:06,160 --> 05:00:14,000
nobody wants to challenge it. And today
uh

3204
05:00:10,958 --> 05:00:20,560
Joanne Campbell passed away, one of the
mother of Rebecca Kimell.

3205
05:00:17,040 --> 05:00:25,200
And um it made me think of Rebecca and
how she was willing to and those alders

3206
05:00:23,040 --> 05:00:31,440
to challenge the status quo at a time
when you know even then h said they it's

3207
05:00:29,200 --> 05:00:35,440
going to get challenged and they still
did it. Um

3208
05:00:33,920 --> 05:00:40,718
because that's what you're supposed to
do is

3209
05:00:37,840 --> 05:00:47,280
learn a system and then challenge it and
push it all the way to its limit if that

3210
05:00:44,400 --> 05:00:53,638
limit is causing harm.
to people that are under reppresented

3211
05:00:50,320 --> 05:00:53,638
and underserved.

3212
05:00:54,080 --> 05:01:03,680
There were double the amount of people
showed up on August 4th than did for the

3213
05:01:00,480 --> 05:01:09,040
night of the PCOB
that we got that ordinance through and

3214
05:01:06,080 --> 05:01:15,440
we had double the amount. And then I
hear things about templates and people

3215
05:01:12,400 --> 05:01:20,958
not understanding it. And I just don't
know what

3216
05:01:17,920 --> 05:01:24,638
we want from our community anymore. I
don't know if you want them to show up,

3217
05:01:22,878 --> 05:01:29,878
do you want them to write? Do you want
them to beg?

3218
05:01:26,878 --> 05:01:29,878
Um,

3219
05:01:30,080 --> 05:01:38,560
I know for the next year and a half, I'm
going to work on educating the community

3220
05:01:35,760 --> 05:01:43,680
and doing what I do best, which is
disrupt the system and stay true to

3221
05:01:41,680 --> 05:01:49,680
myself. I'm not interested in the power
of it. I'm not interested in having

3222
05:01:46,560 --> 05:01:53,360
power. I was never interested in get
becoming an alder for the next thing

3223
05:01:51,440 --> 05:01:58,718
that I could do.
I did it because the community needs

3224
05:01:55,840 --> 05:02:05,120
people like me that'll say the things
and not in the back room but to each

3225
05:02:01,760 --> 05:02:10,040
other's face and not discuss things in
back rooms but to each other's

3226
05:02:06,678 --> 05:02:10,040
[clears throat] face.

3227
05:02:10,080 --> 05:02:15,920
I'll take the next year and a half to
educate the community because I'm pretty

3228
05:02:13,440 --> 05:02:20,560
sure at most [clears throat] ways things
that I believe in will be challenged as

3229
05:02:19,040 --> 05:02:26,000
most of the black women who have been an
alder left with scars that are

3230
05:02:24,480 --> 05:02:31,320
unhealable
that I've spoke to.

3231
05:02:28,320 --> 05:02:31,320
So,

3232
05:02:32,080 --> 05:02:40,798
I'll fight for their budget when budget
time comes. Um, but I'm going to fight

3233
05:02:38,000 --> 05:02:45,840
to educate the community
to make sure they're sitting at these

3234
05:02:42,798 --> 05:02:53,360
tables next year. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Alder. Alder Lieberman.

3235
05:02:49,200 --> 05:02:58,400
» Thank you. Um, I I I there's not much I
can say better than that. What I will

3236
05:02:55,040 --> 05:03:06,080
say is this. I'm I'm not naive. I know
that there aren't uh 15 votes to uh

3237
05:03:04,240 --> 05:03:12,080
pass this motion if it were if it were
made uh to adopt and I I don't think

3238
05:03:09,840 --> 05:03:16,878
that there are the 10 required to stop
it from being placed on file. Um, but

3239
05:03:14,560 --> 05:03:22,320
what this vote is about is about a
recognition for me of the things that

3240
05:03:19,920 --> 05:03:28,480
are fundamentally wrong with policing,
not just in this city, but

3241
05:03:25,760 --> 05:03:35,600
uh in in this country at large. And I
know that $28,000 is not going to fix

3242
05:03:32,240 --> 05:03:39,680
the racial disparities. Um, body cameras
are not going to fix racial disparities.

3243
05:03:38,080 --> 05:03:43,600
An independent monitor's office that's
fully funded and operational on its own

3244
05:03:41,920 --> 05:03:46,878
will not be enough to fix all of the
problems that are fundamentally wrong

3245
05:03:44,878 --> 05:03:50,798
with policing here. But what I want the
folks who spoke at this meeting, at our

3246
05:03:48,958 --> 05:03:56,638
last meeting, and all of the meetings in
between to know is that these are

3247
05:03:52,718 --> 05:04:01,040
concerns that I take seriously and that
my colleagues on this board take

3248
05:03:58,160 --> 05:04:06,718
seriously. And if you are somebody who
is on the fence about how to vote on

3249
05:04:03,680 --> 05:04:11,280
this motion, just consider the symbolic
weight that this vote can have,

3250
05:04:09,040 --> 05:04:16,718
especially with budget season coming up
in letting folks know that we want there

3251
05:04:14,638 --> 05:04:21,760
are things that need to be fixed about
the OIM's uh about the office. There are

3252
05:04:20,000 --> 05:04:25,680
things that need to be fixed about the
PCO. There are thing there are certainly

3253
05:04:24,320 --> 05:04:31,600
things that need to be fixed about
policing in our city. and that this is

3254
05:04:29,840 --> 05:04:35,280
not something we are sherking off. That
this is a

3255
05:04:33,600 --> 05:04:40,878
challenge that we are going to tackle
headon and that we are going to make

3256
05:04:37,680 --> 05:04:45,520
sure that the concerns of the people
that the fears and the hopes of the

3257
05:04:42,878 --> 05:04:51,280
people who have been reaching out in
mass since this horrible thing happened

3258
05:04:49,200 --> 05:04:58,040
that we are hearing that that we are
acting on it and we are doing our duty

3259
05:04:52,798 --> 05:04:58,040
as alders to address those concerns.

3260
05:04:58,480 --> 05:05:06,958
Thank you, Alder. Alder Pritchette.
>> Yes. [clears throat]

3261
05:05:04,798 --> 05:05:15,520
You know, I I I'm sitting here and I'm
listening and I'm thinking and

3262
05:05:12,320 --> 05:05:21,360
I do support
the structure structure

3263
05:05:19,120 --> 05:05:30,958
of the office
PC NIM. I support it.

3264
05:05:26,480 --> 05:05:36,240
But I cannot defend the occupants of
this structure.

3265
05:05:33,120 --> 05:05:42,878
The amount of toxicity,
the amount of vitriol

3266
05:05:38,638 --> 05:05:47,520
that has gone on between this office
is awful.

3267
05:05:45,360 --> 05:05:55,040
It's awful.
I said before that the office of the OIM

3268
05:05:51,440 --> 05:06:03,600
and PCO is in its infancy.
I am yet to see any growth. [snorts]

3269
05:06:00,160 --> 05:06:10,878
Growth that will allow me to say that
things can change. The amount of

3270
05:06:08,080 --> 05:06:16,480
subjectivity,
no objectivity.

3271
05:06:12,878 --> 05:06:21,840
It's me against you. It's like putting
two people in a paper bag and I don't

3272
05:06:19,200 --> 05:06:29,440
know who's going to come out first.
It's that bad. I'm also saying too that

3273
05:06:26,400 --> 05:06:34,480
when we start looking at and I do agree
that $28,500

3274
05:06:32,160 --> 05:06:39,760
is spit.
It's nothing.

3275
05:06:37,040 --> 05:06:44,638
But I don't care how much it is. I will
demand how you're going to spend it. I

3276
05:06:43,280 --> 05:06:51,200
want to know how you're going to spend
it. I haven't seen a plan.

3277
05:06:49,120 --> 05:06:57,120
I have no idea what you're going to do
with it in terms of training because

3278
05:06:53,920 --> 05:07:00,320
training needs to take place.
When I think about the current

3279
05:06:58,798 --> 05:07:07,680
composition
of the PCO, the things that have been

3280
05:07:03,200 --> 05:07:12,798
said to me, I'll mute you.
That's a problem.

3281
05:07:10,000 --> 05:07:16,718
That's a real problem.
I don't know what the intake procedure

3282
05:07:14,958 --> 05:07:21,120
is.
No idea.

3283
05:07:18,480 --> 05:07:26,400
If you have a case, what's the first
thing you do? How do you go about

3284
05:07:23,440 --> 05:07:30,160
assessing what the needs are with
respect to the people who will be

3285
05:07:28,160 --> 05:07:34,320
investigating?
These are things that need to be known.

3286
05:07:32,718 --> 05:07:39,440
These are things that need to be written
down. This is the plan that you're going

3287
05:07:36,718 --> 05:07:45,520
to use and you're going to pursue in
terms of a case.

3288
05:07:41,600 --> 05:07:51,680
Until I can see that, until I have some
comfort in knowing that this is what you

3289
05:07:48,240 --> 05:07:58,000
want to do and I see that it makes a
difference and that we can grow from

3290
05:07:54,000 --> 05:08:03,440
there, then I'll all with it. But for
now, the answer is no.

3291
05:08:01,760 --> 05:08:08,400
Thank you. [snorts]
>> Thank you, Alder. Alder mayor.

3292
05:08:06,400 --> 05:08:14,480
» Thank you, Mayor. Uh I have long
supported the mission of the PCOB and

3293
05:08:10,480 --> 05:08:21,760
OIM. Um I've gotten to know uh members
of the PCOB and the the data analysis

3294
05:08:17,120 --> 05:08:26,320
and the OAM over the past year. Um
as to Elder Pritchette's point,

3295
05:08:23,280 --> 05:08:29,520
sometimes you know the OM and and PCB
have done fantastic work and other times

3296
05:08:27,920 --> 05:08:32,638
they do things that that frustrate the
hell of me. Uh they I should say they do

3297
05:08:31,440 --> 05:08:37,360
things not the way I would have done
them. But uh that office will outlast

3298
05:08:35,840 --> 05:08:41,680
the occupants just as this common
council will outlast all of us and

3299
05:08:40,000 --> 05:08:46,878
because of that support. I mean I think
I know how the the way the vote is going

3300
05:08:43,360 --> 05:08:51,120
but I support funding the the OM PCO. I
support increasing that funding but I

3301
05:08:49,600 --> 05:08:53,920
also incre support support working on
that structure a lot and I know it's

3302
05:08:52,480 --> 05:08:58,240
annoying that we keep coming back to try
to fine-tune it. But I do think that a

3303
05:08:56,400 --> 05:09:01,280
lot of the problems we have are because
uh it was never given the funding it

3304
05:08:59,520 --> 05:09:05,440
needed at the beginning to really be
effective. And so we are um

3305
05:09:04,572 --> 05:09:08,560
[clears throat] we're criticizing
something that's in its infancy that's

3306
05:09:06,878 --> 05:09:14,798
also been malnourished and hasn't been
able to fully grow into what it ought to

3307
05:09:10,638 --> 05:09:19,280
be. So I am I will
not support the motion which supports

3308
05:09:16,878 --> 05:09:26,958
the PCB. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Alder Alder Matthews.

3309
05:09:23,040 --> 05:09:32,320
» You may um first I want to say that the
$28,500

3310
05:09:28,560 --> 05:09:38,240
is spit. It's basically nothing. Um,
this uh budget resolution ask is a

3311
05:09:35,360 --> 05:09:44,240
result of trying to be as reasonable as
possible and take all of our budget

3312
05:09:40,480 --> 05:09:49,920
limitations into account. I am not and
was never asking us for a million

3313
05:09:47,280 --> 05:09:53,040
dollars tonight. Um, I don't think this
ask is anywhere near sufficient to

3314
05:09:51,600 --> 05:09:58,638
address the additional need for
capacity. I also don't think additional

3315
05:09:55,840 --> 05:10:04,080
funds alone will be enough to resolve
every conflict between the city office

3316
05:10:01,360 --> 05:10:07,760
board and community. [clears throat]
The additional training allowed by this

3317
05:10:06,240 --> 05:10:13,600
resolution
um is a step in the right direction.

3318
05:10:11,040 --> 05:10:20,160
But this money is a token, an olive
branch to move us even a step forward

3319
05:10:17,840 --> 05:10:25,200
while we commit to doing the work needed
while we commit to doing the work needed

3320
05:10:23,040 --> 05:10:30,480
to ensure the structural questions are
addressed such that this council is

3321
05:10:27,840 --> 05:10:35,440
comfortable or I guess a future council
but I'm hopeful that it could be this

3322
05:10:32,160 --> 05:10:41,200
council is comfortable to for the first
time fund the office at a level that

3323
05:10:38,240 --> 05:10:49,680
allow them to perform the duties
that the community that us as a council

3324
05:10:44,240 --> 05:10:54,616
and that the ordinance demands. Um I
also just want to say that we did get

3325
05:10:52,320 --> 05:10:59,600
several well we got a lot of emails
[clears throat] um in our all alder

3326
05:10:56,240 --> 05:11:05,280
inbox as we have since July 22nd. Um,
and especially I think there are like

3327
05:11:02,480 --> 05:11:09,360
five that we got just today and maybe
the tail end of yesterday that have

3328
05:11:07,760 --> 05:11:14,718
extremely good points and that I hope
that all of you and all of us read. Um,

3329
05:11:13,120 --> 05:11:19,600
one specifically, I'm not going to read
the whole thing. Um, but I do want to

3330
05:11:17,120 --> 05:11:24,798
read an excerpt and then just a tiny
snippet from the end of the email that

3331
05:11:21,920 --> 05:11:28,160
we got from Michelle Robinson who among
other things served as the first

3332
05:11:26,400 --> 05:11:32,958
inspector general for the Wisconsin
Department of Children and Families.

3333
05:11:31,950 --> 05:11:38,160
[clears throat]
Politics and policy are often

3334
05:11:35,040 --> 05:11:42,240
intertwined, particularly in government,
but they are not the same thing. As

3335
05:11:40,400 --> 05:11:47,440
someone whose work has largely centered
on policy, systems change, and

3336
05:11:44,400 --> 05:11:52,080
institutional design, I find myself much
more interested in getting underneath

3337
05:11:49,520 --> 05:11:56,080
the political noise of this moment to
the policy and governance questions that

3338
05:11:54,320 --> 05:12:01,760
will remain long after the current
controversy and the people involved in

3339
05:11:58,160 --> 05:12:07,600
it have changed. And right now, I worry
that we are losing that conversation.

3340
05:12:04,480 --> 05:12:12,480
The politics surrounding OIM and PCOB
have become intensely personalized. And

3341
05:12:10,400 --> 05:12:17,200
I don't mean only the current monitor or
OIM staff. At this point, the motives

3342
05:12:15,200 --> 05:12:22,240
and conduct of nearly every actor
involved are being contested. There are

3343
05:12:19,840 --> 05:12:26,718
concerns and allegations involving OIM
leadership and staff. The mayor and city

3344
05:12:24,958 --> 05:12:31,600
administration are being accused of
undermining the office. Alders are being

3345
05:12:29,440 --> 05:12:36,480
characterized as either defending or
dismantling civilian oversight. The

3346
05:12:34,160 --> 05:12:41,920
chief and MPD are also part of this
increasingly politicized environment.

3347
05:12:39,840 --> 05:12:46,638
Some of those concerns may be legitimate
and require resolution. I am not

3348
05:12:44,080 --> 05:12:51,600
suggesting that the politics or the
conduct of individuals do not matter.

3349
05:12:48,958 --> 05:12:57,200
But I worry that questions about people,
personalities, motives, and individual

3350
05:12:54,320 --> 05:13:01,760
conflicts are becoming comp conflated
with a fundamentally different set of

3351
05:12:59,200 --> 05:13:05,600
questions about institutions.
Does Madison remain committed to

3352
05:13:03,920 --> 05:13:10,878
meaningful civilian oversight of
policing? What does genuine independence

3353
05:13:08,560 --> 05:13:15,280
require? What accountability should
exist for the oversight institutions

3354
05:13:12,718 --> 05:13:20,878
themselves? And what structure will
allow OIM and PCOB to function

3355
05:13:18,320 --> 05:13:26,718
effectively when their work inevitably
creates discomfort for the city and the

3356
05:13:23,520 --> 05:13:30,878
institutions they oversee. Um, then
there's a lot more about her personal

3357
05:13:29,120 --> 05:13:35,040
experience with this kind of work and
some other things. And then this last

3358
05:13:33,120 --> 05:13:40,638
little snippet, the test of our
commitment to independent civilian

3359
05:13:36,958 --> 05:13:44,878
oversight was therefore never going to
come when oversight was comfortable. It

3360
05:13:42,878 --> 05:13:50,320
was always going to come when the work
of oversight created discomfort for the

3361
05:13:47,200 --> 05:13:55,840
institutions and people being overseen.
Um, and so I would just like again to

3362
05:13:53,440 --> 05:14:00,560
encourage everyone to read this email.
Um, and really think about this as we

3363
05:13:58,400 --> 05:14:05,280
move forward to budget season because we
do need to have the tough conversations

3364
05:14:02,798 --> 05:14:10,560
and I am intending to do everything that
I can to have them. Um, and I welcome

3365
05:14:08,320 --> 05:14:15,840
anyone else that wants to join me. Thank
you.

3366
05:14:11,840 --> 05:14:21,120
» Thank you, Alder. Alder Jean,
>> I'd just like to clarify

3367
05:14:18,240 --> 05:14:28,480
is the motion right now to place the
amendment on file and so

3368
05:14:25,120 --> 05:14:33,120
voting I would effectively do nothing
with because the the budget would not be

3369
05:14:30,560 --> 05:14:37,200
changed. Voting no would mean that
something else would have to happen.

3370
05:14:35,520 --> 05:14:41,440
That's correct. So the motion is to
place on file and I vote would place the

3371
05:14:39,760 --> 05:14:49,040
item on file. There would be no budget
amendment. Uh, a no vote would mean that

3372
05:14:45,840 --> 05:14:52,240
you want to continue the discussion and
potentially another motion could be

3373
05:14:50,560 --> 05:14:58,718
made.
>> Okay. Thank you.

3374
05:14:54,240 --> 05:15:03,280
» Thank you, Alder. Alder
Madison.

3375
05:15:00,878 --> 05:15:07,520
» Thank you, Mayor. Um, I had not planned
to speak because I feel like I said

3376
05:15:05,600 --> 05:15:12,080
everything I had to say at finance, but
I wanna um to Alder Matthew's last

3377
05:15:10,718 --> 05:15:15,920
comments, one of the reasons why I
decided to go ahead and speak is because

3378
05:15:14,240 --> 05:15:20,000
I actually spoke to Michelle Robinson.
She's one of my constituents. We had a

3379
05:15:17,280 --> 05:15:23,840
very long conversation and there were
some things she was like, you know,

3380
05:15:21,440 --> 05:15:29,120
maybe if you can share this because her
opinion was that what she was hearing

3381
05:15:26,000 --> 05:15:32,480
specifically about me um was not who she
knew me to be. And so I explained I'm

3382
05:15:30,798 --> 05:15:36,080
not, you know, people are gonna, you
know, create all kind of fantasies about

3383
05:15:34,320 --> 05:15:40,160
me such a life. I'm not going to allow
that to sort of change who I am. So I'm

3384
05:15:37,920 --> 05:15:43,920
not going to focus on who I am as an
alder because I don't feel the need to

3385
05:15:41,680 --> 05:15:48,560
defend my own record. But I really want
to focus on what this council has done

3386
05:15:46,080 --> 05:15:53,440
in the last at least since I've been
regarding this office. It is we have

3387
05:15:51,360 --> 05:15:56,718
overwhelmingly supported this office.
So, I'm I'm not going to pretend like

3388
05:15:55,360 --> 05:16:00,560
I'm not voting no because I'm going to
or vote yes to put on the file for a lot

3389
05:15:59,360 --> 05:16:05,280
of reasons that I won't get into because
I've already gotten into it. But the

3390
05:16:03,280 --> 05:16:09,840
council from my history of being on
council since fall 2022 has

3391
05:16:07,360 --> 05:16:16,560
overwhelmingly supported this office.
Actually, despite how what is it the

3392
05:16:12,638 --> 05:16:20,560
distortions um have been out there, the
majority of alters who hit me up about

3393
05:16:18,798 --> 05:16:24,160
potential next steps, their questions,
asking for more information, which led

3394
05:16:22,638 --> 05:16:29,120
me to get the summary document, for
example, no one's come to me to say,

3395
05:16:27,120 --> 05:16:32,320
"Sabrina, answer this question for me so
we can figure out how to dismantle it."

3396
05:16:30,798 --> 05:16:35,440
Or, "Sabrina, answer this question for
me and get me information so I can learn

3397
05:16:33,680 --> 05:16:39,120
how to defund it." That has never come
up. Everybody has been overwhelmingly

3398
05:16:37,680 --> 05:16:42,718
supportive. So, I just want to go back
to a couple things and my apologies for

3399
05:16:41,120 --> 05:16:48,000
being all over because I was like, you
know, whatever what I'll do or not do.

3400
05:16:45,200 --> 05:16:52,718
But I I've never been a fan of symbolic
nor performative gestures because they

3401
05:16:50,798 --> 05:16:56,160
do a whole lot of harm to the community
when we do things that are symbolic or

3402
05:16:54,240 --> 05:16:59,520
performative, for example. So, I've
always been a fan of like just actually

3403
05:16:58,080 --> 05:17:04,240
doing the work and accomplishing the
work. Some of that work where I was

3404
05:17:01,680 --> 05:17:10,320
included is for example last year where
the council voted 17 to3 to not defund

3405
05:17:07,600 --> 05:17:13,600
the office because the operating
amendment that was put the floor

3406
05:17:11,840 --> 05:17:17,920
amendment for operating budget would
have purchased zero cameras. Sure it

3407
05:17:16,080 --> 05:17:21,520
would have given MPD some operating
dollars towards you know their eventual

3408
05:17:19,680 --> 05:17:26,000
cost but we would have defunded the
office and we would have purchased zero

3409
05:17:24,000 --> 05:17:30,638
cameras where the public sort of assumed
that we would have been able to buy

3410
05:17:27,200 --> 05:17:34,160
cameras. This council voted 17 to3. I'm
not going to go over who were the the

3411
05:17:31,840 --> 05:17:40,000
three because the majority said we don't
want to defund the office.

3412
05:17:37,040 --> 05:17:43,760
» It doesn't we
regardless still also supports the work

3413
05:17:42,000 --> 05:17:49,360
of the office. I'm confident of it. She
just wants some things addressed like a

3414
05:17:46,080 --> 05:17:52,878
lot of us. So, um, the other thing I
want to say because I'm confident Chair

3415
05:17:51,360 --> 05:17:56,400
Pearson will listen to this eventually
and if they're members of the PCOB here,

3416
05:17:54,878 --> 05:18:00,638
they may listen to that or they'll come
backwards and listen to this. I want to

3417
05:17:58,240 --> 05:18:05,680
say I appreciate my or Chair Pearson
because we did sit down and talk about

3418
05:18:02,958 --> 05:18:09,280
the challenges um both operational
conflicts and maybe a different of

3419
05:18:07,280 --> 05:18:13,440
opinions. this council and I won't share
the alders who hit me up but there were

3420
05:18:10,878 --> 05:18:17,040
alders who uh were expecting that
amendments would come back after our

3421
05:18:15,120 --> 05:18:20,798
April meeting from alders Glenn or vice
president Glenn and alder Matthews we

3422
05:18:19,040 --> 05:18:24,798
didn't get those things back there were
also who hit me up who expected some

3423
05:18:23,200 --> 05:18:28,958
sort of I think maybe community
something else they expected that thing

3424
05:18:26,638 --> 05:18:32,798
did not happen so I want to the reason I
bring that up is because whereas a

3425
05:18:30,798 --> 05:18:36,878
community is being told that this city
or these this body wants to dismantle it

3426
05:18:35,360 --> 05:18:41,200
actually the questions that I get are
always in the affirm are always in the

3427
05:18:38,958 --> 05:18:46,400
positive. Hey, can you give me an update
order on this? It is not because this

3428
05:18:44,878 --> 05:18:51,120
thing didn't happen, tell me how I kill
it. It's never been that despite the

3429
05:18:48,878 --> 05:18:56,958
distortions that are overwhelmingly
killing people's ideas about us, for

3430
05:18:53,760 --> 05:19:01,440
example. So, I also
uh I want to go back to Alder Rumble and

3431
05:18:58,718 --> 05:19:04,638
I I believe it was I'm 47 now, so it was
either two budgets ago or three bes I

3432
05:19:02,958 --> 05:19:10,718
think it was two budgets ago. Alder
Rumble and I worked really hard because

3433
05:19:06,798 --> 05:19:14,240
again ne Rumble was very old school. I
had some of the hardest conversations

3434
05:19:12,160 --> 05:19:18,080
I've had to have about taking money from
an agency or staff in order to give it

3435
05:19:16,560 --> 05:19:22,000
to someone else. That was my first time
experience doing that because for the

3436
05:19:20,080 --> 05:19:25,120
library I didn't have to do that. I
didn't have to beg to take money from

3437
05:19:23,200 --> 05:19:29,040
the agency or kill someone's job to give
it to somewhere else. So we were very

3438
05:19:26,958 --> 05:19:33,600
emotional maybe two budgets ago when
there was a budget cut um to the office.

3439
05:19:30,958 --> 05:19:39,200
I don't know, $120 some odd thousand or
$199 some thousand. Alder Rumble and I

3440
05:19:36,798 --> 05:19:43,920
worked really hard strategically.
We focused on what repair can we do in

3441
05:19:41,840 --> 05:19:48,080
the office versus what we didn't focus
on harm. I see so much harm being

3442
05:19:46,560 --> 05:19:52,798
created with a bunch of dis
disinformation, misinformation, and

3443
05:19:50,000 --> 05:19:56,480
literally sometimes outright BS. So,
Alder R and I did not focus in that

3444
05:19:54,718 --> 05:20:00,958
direction. and we focused on what can we
do to repair things so this council

3445
05:19:59,120 --> 05:20:04,400
would support our freaking amendment. So
we I can't remember the exact money the

3446
05:20:02,798 --> 05:20:08,718
exact number but it was $120 some
thousand. It went back I believe to

3447
05:20:06,638 --> 05:20:12,560
staffing cost potentially and this
council overwhelmingly supported I can't

3448
05:20:10,798 --> 05:20:15,920
remember what the numbers were but we
got that the council supported. So

3449
05:20:14,718 --> 05:20:21,440
there's another opportunity of this
council supporting that office. I have

3450
05:20:18,480 --> 05:20:24,958
lost count of the number of times in our
um council meetings when we're talking

3451
05:20:23,120 --> 05:20:28,240
about reports from the office. For
example, Alder Evers, probably like

3452
05:20:26,638 --> 05:20:32,958
myself, we can be nerdy about some
things. And Alder Evers has never come

3453
05:20:30,718 --> 05:20:36,878
to me to say, "How can we kill this
office based on a report we might not

3454
05:20:34,718 --> 05:20:41,600
have gotten or an update? It's always
been we would like this thing so we can

3455
05:20:39,840 --> 05:20:44,080
move forward." So again, I want to say
when we talk about reports, it's just

3456
05:20:42,958 --> 05:20:46,958
like, hey, we just want this thing to
happen. And I feel like that improvement

3457
05:20:45,760 --> 05:20:51,920
has happened from the office, for
example. One reason why I brought Nicole

3458
05:20:49,760 --> 05:20:56,240
to the comic council, unfortunately, we
had this freaking tragic, insane tragedy

3459
05:20:54,400 --> 05:21:01,440
that happened the next day after Nicole
presented to the council, was not some

3460
05:20:58,878 --> 05:21:05,360
finessing that was fed to the community
about why we had Nico. It was like

3461
05:21:03,520 --> 05:21:11,760
because this freaking council had not
heard from Nico. I am a nerd 100%. I

3462
05:21:09,520 --> 05:21:18,718
like to learn. Other council members
love to learn. So I in the council

3463
05:21:14,718 --> 05:21:22,000
budget used our money to pay for for
Nicole to come to present to the

3464
05:21:20,160 --> 05:21:25,840
council. They gave a fabulous
presentation but some of the things that

3465
05:21:24,000 --> 05:21:28,798
they brought up is like I don't know we
we don't need to play games and pre

3466
05:21:27,360 --> 05:21:32,638
pretend what's happening is not
happening. Some of what they brought up

3467
05:21:30,480 --> 05:21:36,000
is like the threats to legitimacy. We
can see now that there are tons of

3468
05:21:34,000 --> 05:21:40,320
threats to the legitimacy of the office
based on what we see and oftentimes

3469
05:21:37,920 --> 05:21:46,798
unfortunately created by other alders.
It is the this toxicity is threatening

3470
05:21:43,680 --> 05:21:52,480
the legitimacy of the office as Nicole
told us months ago. That is what is

3471
05:21:49,440 --> 05:21:56,080
happening. Nicole also told us the
reason I appreciate chair Pearson for

3472
05:21:54,320 --> 05:21:59,280
sitting agreeing to sit down with me is
because when we dropped the amendments,

3473
05:21:57,600 --> 05:22:01,840
we dropped the amendments because we are
human beings and there's no way we're

3474
05:22:00,718 --> 05:22:05,200
going to be talking about some dang on
amendments when somebody just got shot

3475
05:22:03,920 --> 05:22:09,520
three times in the head in the middle of
a freaking city street. That made no

3476
05:22:07,120 --> 05:22:12,400
sense to do that. But it was not to say
we don't agree because people were

3477
05:22:10,798 --> 05:22:16,400
pumping this thing out there like oh we
won. I'm like are y'all you know what is

3478
05:22:14,240 --> 05:22:20,000
happening here. It was not about we won
or we lost. It was we are going to

3479
05:22:18,240 --> 05:22:24,000
figure out this at another time when it
makes more sense because what still

3480
05:22:22,000 --> 05:22:29,200
exists the challenges that we were
trying to address. And after the Nicole

3481
05:22:27,200 --> 05:22:33,120
presentation I'm confident that the
sponsors including myself were going to

3482
05:22:31,120 --> 05:22:38,000
sit back down again to edit because what
do we believe in? Repair versus harm.

3483
05:22:35,920 --> 05:22:41,840
and Nicole was there to help us figure
out what we might need to edit in those

3484
05:22:40,000 --> 05:22:46,080
amendments as well. The other thing
Nicole shared with this body that I

3485
05:22:43,920 --> 05:22:53,280
notice doesn't get shared out publicly
very much so is that it is natural and

3486
05:22:50,080 --> 05:22:57,520
normal for ordinances for these kinds of
offices to be updated over time because

3487
05:22:55,520 --> 05:23:02,400
you don't know what you don't know until
you experience what you need to know. So

3488
05:23:00,000 --> 05:23:07,760
it was not a dismantle or kill or
defund. it was updating and then again

3489
05:23:06,000 --> 05:23:10,958
we never got back amendments from the
two alders who said they would bring

3490
05:23:09,200 --> 05:23:15,280
something back to us. Those things never
happen. Maybe they they'll go back and

3491
05:23:12,320 --> 05:23:20,160
work on them. Such is life. So I just
want to say again there are so many

3492
05:23:17,600 --> 05:23:26,240
examples since I've been on this body
since October 2022 where this council

3493
05:23:23,440 --> 05:23:32,320
has overwhelmingly supported. I want to
say again, despite what some of this

3494
05:23:28,718 --> 05:23:37,440
mess you all have been fed, not one
single member of this body has hit me

3495
05:23:34,958 --> 05:23:41,440
up. My oh, let me make sure makes sure I
clear about this. Our records are

3496
05:23:39,360 --> 05:23:47,680
public. You can read our emails. You can
read our text. It's all out there. You

3497
05:23:43,440 --> 05:23:53,280
can read it. Not one single of the other
19 auditors has ever ever come to me or

3498
05:23:51,920 --> 05:23:55,920
not even the mayor. Let make sure I put
the mayor because I know how y'all love

3499
05:23:54,400 --> 05:23:59,200
to be like an in mayor is the mayor and
I don't be having conversations about

3500
05:23:57,120 --> 05:24:04,798
this office. This is like a it was
created by common council ordinance not

3501
05:24:01,520 --> 05:24:09,920
the mayor. So I just want to say this
body you you don't need to believe me

3502
05:24:07,280 --> 05:24:14,400
you can review the record you can review
the meetings I come to when we come to

3503
05:24:12,080 --> 05:24:19,440
PCO B meetings sometimes despite us
coming to learn and to listen we get

3504
05:24:16,878 --> 05:24:22,320
talked out we get we get t caught all
kind of stuff or whatever and and we

3505
05:24:21,040 --> 05:24:25,280
just sit through it. It's just like, you
know what? I get they upset ain't got

3506
05:24:24,400 --> 05:24:28,080
nothing to do with me or whatever. I'm
not going to take it personal. I'mma

3507
05:24:26,400 --> 05:24:32,958
still come and sit and learn in these
meetings because I got sort of like this

3508
05:24:30,320 --> 05:24:35,840
is not helping. I just watch them now
and replay. I go back and watch them

3509
05:24:34,160 --> 05:24:40,718
after the fact. But what I've learned,
the last thing I want to make sure I say

3510
05:24:37,520 --> 05:24:44,798
is that
think about what you want to exist. I

3511
05:24:42,718 --> 05:24:50,480
appreciate Dr. Robinson for reaching out
to us. The the office is not just a

3512
05:24:48,718 --> 05:24:53,840
responsibility of the council. Yes, by
ordinance. Yes, it is. But it's also

3513
05:24:52,320 --> 05:24:57,040
resp the responsibility of the
community. Do you want something to

3514
05:24:55,440 --> 05:25:01,120
exist? How do you want to get there on
what you want this to exist? Do you do

3515
05:24:59,520 --> 05:25:05,680
you want it to exist where it's created
in sort of the foundation is toxicity?

3516
05:25:03,600 --> 05:25:10,000
Do you want it to be do we want to get
towards some level of repair? That's why

3517
05:25:08,480 --> 05:25:14,958
I've been successful in just about
everything I've accomplished because my

3518
05:25:12,000 --> 05:25:19,120
focus has been on repair, on fixing, on
being solution focused. I don't need to

3519
05:25:16,958 --> 05:25:23,600
hate on nobody in order to get there.
None of us do. And none of this body has

3520
05:25:21,440 --> 05:25:27,440
reached out to me hating on this office
to get us there. It has been

3521
05:25:25,920 --> 05:25:32,160
overwhelmingly
how what can I get more information? I

3522
05:25:30,240 --> 05:25:37,680
just want to make sure I repeat that. It
is not just me who has supported this

3523
05:25:34,560 --> 05:25:41,440
office. It is alders who have voted yes
to support what I have supported. When I

3524
05:25:40,080 --> 05:25:47,200
went back and tried to get more money,
it was this body who said yes. Last year

3525
05:25:44,400 --> 05:25:53,280
when Alders put up a thing to defund it,
17 of us said no to defunding it. When

3526
05:25:50,480 --> 05:25:56,240
Alder goes on about reports, we've all
supported what he has asked for for the

3527
05:25:55,200 --> 05:26:00,320
most part. I don't know what the numbers
are. So again, I just want to say I

3528
05:25:58,718 --> 05:26:06,320
really wish we can walk out of here
tonight and sort of have a reset on how

3529
05:26:03,760 --> 05:26:10,400
we think about what this body wants and
how we get to sort of this thing that is

3530
05:26:09,040 --> 05:26:14,400
beautiful and that is brilliant. Not
that it isn't now, but we cannot be

3531
05:26:12,560 --> 05:26:17,440
pretending that we don't have issues to
address. So, let me just make sure.

3532
05:26:16,480 --> 05:26:21,360
Mayor, I'm sorry. I know you looking at
me. Let me just make sure I get, you

3533
05:26:18,400 --> 05:26:26,798
know, uh,
Yep. Okay. I think I hit it all.

3534
05:26:24,638 --> 05:26:30,798
Okay. Thank you. My bad. Thanks for your
patience.

3535
05:26:27,520 --> 05:26:35,360
» Thank you, Elder. Alder Evers.
>> Thank you, Mayor. And thank you, fellow

3536
05:26:33,680 --> 05:26:39,280
council members and members of the
public who spoken up. Lots of things

3537
05:26:37,520 --> 05:26:43,520
have been said. powerful things have
been said

3538
05:26:41,040 --> 05:26:50,480
um in reference to the issue about
politics and what um Dr. Robinson wrote

3539
05:26:47,280 --> 05:26:56,560
and I along with Matthews encourage
everybody to read that email.

3540
05:26:53,760 --> 05:27:04,080
Um,
it's important, I think, for us to

3541
05:27:00,638 --> 05:27:12,920
think clearly about
what is before us right now and why my

3542
05:27:07,760 --> 05:27:12,920
vote in favor of placing this on file

3543
05:27:13,440 --> 05:27:22,560
is centered on not wanting to support
the status quo of what we have right now

3544
05:27:19,440 --> 05:27:28,240
at the risk of not drawing attention to
the things that I think are crushing the

3545
05:27:26,080 --> 05:27:33,600
effectiveness
of the OIM.

3546
05:27:30,638 --> 05:27:38,878
I'm at a place similar to where I was
shortly after Corey was killed where at

3547
05:27:36,320 --> 05:27:42,878
that time I said that two things could
be true at the same time. That what

3548
05:27:40,798 --> 05:27:48,160
happened to him was unnecessary. It was
awful. It was terrible. But I also

3549
05:27:45,360 --> 05:27:53,760
thought that a protest that morphed into
a homeless encampment making demands

3550
05:27:50,400 --> 05:27:59,360
that could not be met was distracting us
from working on the various issues and

3551
05:27:57,600 --> 05:28:03,280
the policies that could prevent
something like this from happening

3552
05:28:01,520 --> 05:28:08,718
again.
I'm in a similar place today where two

3553
05:28:06,558 --> 05:28:14,160
things in my opinion can be true at
once. that independent police oversight

3554
05:28:11,680 --> 05:28:20,718
is absolutely
absolutely necessary, but what we have

3555
05:28:17,200 --> 05:28:26,480
right now is not working.
President Madison made reference to that

3556
05:28:23,360 --> 05:28:30,878
Nicole meeting and as you recall I had a
question that was asked and it was

3557
05:28:28,160 --> 05:28:38,080
referencing the impass that I think has
been exemplified and expressed clearly

3558
05:28:35,520 --> 05:28:45,360
in tonight's meeting
and you know I I said that the um we

3559
05:28:42,878 --> 05:28:49,920
seem to be at an impass. The activist
community claims alders and the mayor

3560
05:28:47,440 --> 05:28:54,638
are beholden to the police union, though
most of us have never received or sought

3561
05:28:52,080 --> 05:28:59,600
their endorsement. Meetings on the topic
carry a on a conspiratorial tone,

3562
05:28:57,920 --> 05:29:04,798
arguing that alders and the mayor are
trying to destroy the OIM and the PCO

3563
05:29:02,718 --> 05:29:09,680
and the OIM is supporting this
narrative. The divide is wide and the

3564
05:29:07,440 --> 05:29:14,958
acrimony is over the top. We've heard
that tonight. There's been talk of a

3565
05:29:12,240 --> 05:29:20,240
reset. I had a conversation with with
chair Pearson uh in a restaurant after

3566
05:29:17,760 --> 05:29:25,120
the April meeting about what that recite
could look like, but it's not happened.

3567
05:29:22,798 --> 05:29:29,840
How do we overcome this divide? What
would Nicole advised? and Nicole's

3568
05:29:27,520 --> 05:29:35,760
director of training paused as you
recall before responding and basically

3569
05:29:32,718 --> 05:29:41,280
said it sounded sounds like you need
professional mediation

3570
05:29:39,120 --> 05:29:48,160
warning that if the impass were allowed
to continue it could threaten it would

3571
05:29:44,080 --> 05:29:53,760
threaten the legitimacy of the office.
Weeks later, there's been no reset and

3572
05:29:50,958 --> 05:30:00,638
the divide has widened. The interim
independent monitor and the OIM's data

3573
05:29:57,200 --> 05:30:06,080
analysts routinely take to social media,
vilifying fellow city employees,

3574
05:30:03,840 --> 05:30:13,520
imputing the character of members of
this body, attacking the mayor, making

3575
05:30:10,160 --> 05:30:19,920
claims and accu accusations that reveal
a complete lack of interest in improving

3576
05:30:16,958 --> 05:30:26,240
these relationships.
Greg Gallenbeck corrected me regarding

3577
05:30:22,558 --> 05:30:32,558
his Facebook post. Um, one thing is
undeniable though. He showed a picture

3578
05:30:29,440 --> 05:30:39,920
of a white police officer holding a gun
to the head of a black man and included

3579
05:30:35,680 --> 05:30:45,920
the tagline gang and blue. What is
equally undeniable or what is undeniable

3580
05:30:43,040 --> 05:30:51,680
that's inflammatory that's incendiary
and is grossly irresponsible.

3581
05:30:49,120 --> 05:30:56,240
I get it that there's anger, there's
profound grief and sadness, the

3582
05:30:53,600 --> 05:31:00,400
unanswered calls for justice. And I get
it from my conversation just now with

3583
05:30:58,320 --> 05:31:06,240
Greg or during the intermission that we
had earlier that it's out of frustration

3584
05:31:03,680 --> 05:31:11,200
that that motivates a lot of these posts
on social media. uh frustration that

3585
05:31:09,120 --> 05:31:16,160
they're not getting the evidence and the
response from MPD that they expect and

3586
05:31:14,160 --> 05:31:21,360
deserve,
but that's not an excuse for

3587
05:31:18,320 --> 05:31:27,360
unprofessional behavior on the part of a
city employee. The OIM job description

3588
05:31:24,878 --> 05:31:33,280
states that the monitor quote will set
the office's operational philosophy and

3589
05:31:30,718 --> 05:31:39,120
develop and maintain standard operating
procedures to ensure all matters are

3590
05:31:36,080 --> 05:31:43,680
handled in a thorough, objective, fair,
and impartial manner.

3591
05:31:42,000 --> 05:31:49,840
That's not happening right now. It's
clear we had some journalists here who

3592
05:31:46,958 --> 05:31:54,958
were here earlier. If a journalist was
covering a protest, a march down the

3593
05:31:52,400 --> 05:31:59,360
street, but also participating in that
protest and that march on the street,

3594
05:31:57,440 --> 05:32:03,920
the legitimacy
and credibility of that journalist would

3595
05:32:01,760 --> 05:32:10,320
be at stake.
No longer a neutral arbiter of facts, I

3596
05:32:07,520 --> 05:32:17,280
am Glass and her office have have traded
impartiality and objectivity for the

3597
05:32:13,440 --> 05:32:22,798
passion of an activist. In so doing, she
has torched OIM's credibility and

3598
05:32:20,240 --> 05:32:28,878
greatly diminished its ability to
provide effective police oversight.

3599
05:32:26,320 --> 05:32:34,718
I have one last point and that's this. I
am Glass is the interim monitor.

3600
05:32:32,400 --> 05:32:40,558
Accordingly, a significant portion of
her job description was to be as the

3601
05:32:38,160 --> 05:32:46,160
hiring manager for a permanent
replacement. It's my understanding that

3602
05:32:43,280 --> 05:32:52,400
little or no progress has been made in
this regard. Uh she has not put much

3603
05:32:49,600 --> 05:32:57,280
time at all in the hiring of a permanent
independent monitor. And it's for these

3604
05:32:54,958 --> 05:33:03,680
reasons that I cannot in good conscious
support even this

3605
05:33:00,160 --> 05:33:08,480
you know spit of money of additional
funding for the office of the

3606
05:33:05,200 --> 05:33:12,638
independent monitor. Most Madisonians
firmly believe we need independent

3607
05:33:10,798 --> 05:33:17,440
community oversight of the of the
police, but they also believe that the

3608
05:33:14,558 --> 05:33:23,840
office as it currently stands is deeply
flawed and dysfunctional and that adding

3609
05:33:20,638 --> 05:33:27,840
funding alone will not remedy the
situation.

3610
05:33:25,360 --> 05:33:33,040
So, we do need to look to the Dr.
Robinsons out there for ways that we can

3611
05:33:30,958 --> 05:33:37,200
try to heal this divide and bring people
together because right now we're not

3612
05:33:35,440 --> 05:33:42,320
there. And I don't know how we're going
to come back from this. But if we want

3613
05:33:39,680 --> 05:33:47,520
effective police oversight in this
community, the toxicity has to go away.

3614
05:33:45,920 --> 05:33:51,440
People need to start talking to one
another. People need to get off of

3615
05:33:49,120 --> 05:33:56,878
social media
uh Facebook Live and whatever. Cut that

3616
05:33:54,080 --> 05:34:06,280
crap and start working to see what we
can do to move forward. Thanks.

3617
05:34:01,680 --> 05:34:06,280
» Thank you, Alder Alder Glenn.

3618
05:34:06,506 --> 05:34:08,526
» [clears throat]

3619
05:34:13,440 --> 05:34:21,360
» I just want to say first of all I have
never said any that any elders wanted to

3620
05:34:18,558 --> 05:34:27,120
defund the OIM. So if there's any
insinuation with that but I just need to

3621
05:34:24,480 --> 05:34:32,000
just name some things and I don't even
care if none of us are sitting here by

3622
05:34:29,760 --> 05:34:38,558
the time I'm done.
I am so tired of everybody saying and

3623
05:34:36,160 --> 05:34:44,200
have expectation of the community to
follow the rules that you don't follow.

3624
05:34:44,558 --> 05:34:54,320
I'm talking cororum.
[sighs] I'm talking about chatting with

3625
05:34:49,360 --> 05:35:01,280
people. I am so tired. I I was to I knew
who Greg was and how bad we all hated

3626
05:34:57,120 --> 05:35:05,680
him before I ever met him.
I knew how much Ma was an angry black

3627
05:35:04,000 --> 05:35:10,080
woman who wasn't going to be able to
make it and how she was making

3628
05:35:07,200 --> 05:35:15,680
everybody's life hard before I ever met
her. Everybody hated her because she

3629
05:35:13,520 --> 05:35:18,878
challenged the system. Not everybody.
Sorry,

3630
05:35:17,280 --> 05:35:25,440
not
those that know no who call

3631
05:35:23,200 --> 05:35:33,680
who challenge.
Not you either. Uh, but there I knew

3632
05:35:30,080 --> 05:35:38,320
about who Amelia was, never met her. I
knew who all these players were. I had

3633
05:35:36,080 --> 05:35:46,400
to hear about when people come to
council and this and that and templates

3634
05:35:42,480 --> 05:35:52,480
and nobody listens. I I don't have to
turn your community against you. Nobody

3635
05:35:49,520 --> 05:36:00,638
has to turn the community against us.
They're watching us.

3636
05:35:56,400 --> 05:36:08,958
I have tried to protect us in rooms many
of times. They're watching us. They're

3637
05:36:04,878 --> 05:36:15,320
changing my mind on who I believed I was
working with, not the other way around.

3638
05:36:16,638 --> 05:36:26,480
If you want an office and a person to be
this colonized version of what you have

3639
05:36:24,000 --> 05:36:30,480
an expectation of parliament to look
like, I'm never going to be that.

3640
05:36:28,878 --> 05:36:36,480
There's a lot of us that are never going
to be like that. I'm not your culture.

3641
05:36:32,958 --> 05:36:46,160
Come meet me at mine. I'm angry. Yeah,
I'm angry. I got every right to be angry

3642
05:36:41,760 --> 05:36:46,160
living here my whole life.

3643
05:36:48,000 --> 05:36:55,760
When I before I ever met Aram, I had to
hear about this woman who was not

3644
05:36:53,120 --> 05:36:59,600
following the rules and I needed to talk
to her and she was so angry and this and

3645
05:36:57,600 --> 05:37:08,000
that. And then I met this like docile,
educated, pushback person who knew her

3646
05:37:04,638 --> 05:37:14,160
stuff and questioned the system. That's
what we're supposed to be doing, not her

3647
05:37:11,120 --> 05:37:17,760
telling us to
question.

3648
05:37:15,920 --> 05:37:21,440
There was all this big hoopla for a
little while around her questioning the

3649
05:37:19,280 --> 05:37:27,280
subpoena and filing through. We've got
to legislate it.

3650
05:37:24,320 --> 05:37:31,360
We have to be able to legislate push I
mean, not legislate, take to court the

3651
05:37:29,600 --> 05:37:35,040
ordinance. We're going to have to push
against it. That's how you're going to

3652
05:37:33,360 --> 05:37:40,320
find out where it lives and where it's
supposed to be. But to say that people

3653
05:37:37,200 --> 05:37:46,080
like like the insinuation that some of
us are dividing the community is

3654
05:37:43,360 --> 05:37:51,558
watching
and telling me I'm losing my mind for

3655
05:37:48,160 --> 05:37:51,558
believing y'all.

3656
05:37:51,840 --> 05:38:00,240
And the reason I'm so frustrated with
you all, it doesn't have anything to do

3657
05:37:55,760 --> 05:38:06,240
with if you funded the OIM or all of the
versions of what you've did. It's

3658
05:38:02,320 --> 05:38:11,200
because you won't give the PCO and the
OIM what it needs because you hate and

3659
05:38:09,680 --> 05:38:17,600
this is what I've been told by a couple
elders about other elders. They hate

3660
05:38:14,878 --> 05:38:24,080
Aramik.
They hate Greg.

3661
05:38:21,520 --> 05:38:28,958
And because of that,
nobody's going to get anything until

3662
05:38:25,920 --> 05:38:36,240
they're gone.
For the first time, we shut a case

3663
05:38:33,280 --> 05:38:41,120
because of her.
We have an annual report. We have

3664
05:38:38,798 --> 05:38:45,920
disorderly conduct. We have
recommendations for our police. You

3665
05:38:43,840 --> 05:38:49,760
don't like the way she talks. You don't
like the way she acts. You don't like

3666
05:38:47,840 --> 05:38:54,638
the way she does this. She's not from
here. Go look at how great Baltimore

3667
05:38:52,558 --> 05:39:00,240
turned out after she was done. Go look
out how good better San Diego was. When

3668
05:38:57,920 --> 05:39:05,920
we talk about wanting to be nerds and go
search stuff, go search her history of

3669
05:39:02,558 --> 05:39:10,638
what she completed by disrupting the
system of where she was.

3670
05:39:08,718 --> 05:39:13,440
Cuz I did that for a month before I ever
went and talked to her, which is why I

3671
05:39:11,920 --> 05:39:16,440
was one of the last alders to talk to
her.

3672
05:39:17,200 --> 05:39:24,798
If you want the community to follow
rules, y'all better start following them

3673
05:39:21,520 --> 05:39:28,638
cuz I'm going to make sure that they
know everything you do.

3674
05:39:29,920 --> 05:39:37,600
I'm done.
>> Thank you, Alder.

3675
05:39:35,040 --> 05:39:42,320
» Alder Madison for the second time.
>> Yes. And um I just want to clarify

3676
05:39:40,320 --> 05:39:46,558
something because I know both uh Alder
Evers and I mentioned Chair Pearson.

3677
05:39:44,638 --> 05:39:52,480
Common Council Chief of Staff is working
to get a schedule with a um I think a

3678
05:39:50,080 --> 05:39:56,320
Nicole referred or provided a referral
for a mediator. So, I just want to make

3679
05:39:54,240 --> 05:40:00,080
sure I clarify because I don't think I
said where the process is at right now.

3680
05:39:58,958 --> 05:40:04,958
So, just want to provide that
clarification.

3681
05:40:01,520 --> 05:40:08,400
» Thank you, Alder Alder Matthews, for the
second time.

3682
05:40:06,160 --> 05:40:12,080
» Uh, thanks, Mayor, and thank you for
that clarification. That's good to know.

3683
05:40:10,558 --> 05:40:17,920
Um,
I'm distracted now. Uh, [snorts] I'm not

3684
05:40:15,760 --> 05:40:25,040
going to get too wild if you want to see
me ugly cry about all the reasons that

3685
05:40:21,920 --> 05:40:29,840
this needs to happen. The Monday finance
committee meeting is in the public

3686
05:40:26,480 --> 05:40:35,920
record for the rest of digital time. So,
it's all there. I said it and I am

3687
05:40:33,920 --> 05:40:41,760
pretty sure I stand by it, but I'm not
going to go back and watch it all to be

3688
05:40:38,080 --> 05:40:45,200
frank with everyone. Um, but I just want
to, I guess, point out that, yeah, I

3689
05:40:43,520 --> 05:40:51,280
haven't had a single conversation about
this that hasn't gotten very heated, not

3690
05:40:48,798 --> 05:40:57,196
necessarily coming from me.
Um,

3691
05:40:52,798 --> 05:41:00,600
and I also know as a newer alder
[snorts] that

3692
05:41:01,600 --> 05:41:10,320
while there is a lot of culture of um
collaboration at the city,

3693
05:41:07,680 --> 05:41:14,878
there is also,
you know, if if the folks you're trying

3694
05:41:12,638 --> 05:41:21,200
to work with don't want the same thing
that you want, they don't make it easy

3695
05:41:18,080 --> 05:41:26,400
to learn and figure out how to do it.
So, I'll leave it there.

3696
05:41:23,920 --> 05:41:31,600
Um, but again, I want to keep having
conversations. We need to make this

3697
05:41:28,638 --> 05:41:36,638
happen.
>> Thank you, Alder Alder Lieberman.

3698
05:41:34,480 --> 05:41:39,520
» Um, thank you. I'll I'll be
>> also for the second time.

3699
05:41:37,920 --> 05:41:45,760
» Yes,
>> it's been the last few. Um,

3700
05:41:42,638 --> 05:41:49,360
I I'll be brief about this um because I
don't think it's particularly relevant

3701
05:41:47,520 --> 05:41:54,878
to what's being said here. I just wanted
to respond briefly to something that uh

3702
05:41:51,600 --> 05:42:00,320
my colleague Alder Evers uh had said uh
about the

3703
05:41:57,280 --> 05:42:08,160
um the independent monitor forfeiting
legitimacy by partaking in uh protests

3704
05:42:05,360 --> 05:42:13,920
and those actions.
God knows I do not agree with everything

3705
05:42:10,878 --> 05:42:21,360
that our monitor has said and done over
the last uh few months, but uh I just

3706
05:42:18,160 --> 05:42:25,280
wanted on the record the
purpose of the office as defined in the

3707
05:42:23,040 --> 05:42:28,638
ordinance is to ensure that the MPD is
accountable and responsive to the needs

3708
05:42:26,878 --> 05:42:34,558
and concerns of all segments of the
community. I do not think that being in

3709
05:42:31,760 --> 05:42:38,080
community with people in those protests
um and who are calling for

3710
05:42:36,558 --> 05:42:43,120
accountability for MPD is a
disqualifying action. I I think we can

3711
05:42:40,400 --> 05:42:47,600
debate some of the other things that uh
and the merits of the actions that the

3712
05:42:45,040 --> 05:42:52,320
monitor has taken, but I do not want us
to fully write off the possibility that

3713
05:42:50,718 --> 05:42:58,160
it is legitimate for an independent
monitor uh to partake in those sorts of

3714
05:42:55,360 --> 05:43:02,160
things in the future. Um, I believe that
independent in this case means

3715
05:42:59,680 --> 05:43:11,200
independent from the police and from
city politics, not uh independent from

3716
05:43:06,878 --> 05:43:18,160
all lived experience and uh
feedback from the community. Thank you.

3717
05:43:15,920 --> 05:43:23,200
» Thank you, Alder.
I

3718
05:43:19,680 --> 05:43:29,680
have no other alders in the queue
wishing to speak.

3719
05:43:26,400 --> 05:43:36,400
I have no other elders in the queue. So,
anticipating disagreement,

3720
05:43:33,440 --> 05:43:41,680
uh, we will have a roll call. Um, the
motion is to place on file, just to

3721
05:43:39,280 --> 05:43:47,440
clarify again
for the nonp parliamentarians,

3722
05:43:44,638 --> 05:43:54,000
um, the the motion to place on file
requires 11 votes to pass.

3723
05:43:51,440 --> 05:43:58,718
Um if
11 votes are not achieved, the item is

3724
05:43:56,080 --> 05:44:07,840
back before us, another motion can be
made. So all those in favor of placing

3725
05:44:03,440 --> 05:44:11,840
the item on file. We'll say I.
Those opposed, no. As your name is

3726
05:44:10,558 --> 05:44:16,440
called and the clerk will please call
the role.

3727
05:44:12,638 --> 05:44:16,440
» Thank you, Alder. Mayor,

3728
05:44:17,520 --> 05:44:26,558
» it is a simple majority to place on
file. No. Alder mayor. No.

3729
05:44:23,200 --> 05:44:30,798
» Alderman Zegu.
>> You come back to you.

3730
05:44:28,718 --> 05:44:32,000
» Okay, we'll get back to you. Alder
O'Brien.

3731
05:44:31,520 --> 05:44:41,718
» Hi.
>> Alder O'Brien. I Alder Hovich.

3732
05:44:36,638 --> 05:44:41,718
» Alderovich. I Alder Pritchette.

3733
05:44:42,160 --> 05:44:48,638
» Very well. Alder Tistler.
>> Um I

3734
05:44:46,160 --> 05:44:51,920
» Alder Tishler. I Alder.
>> Alder. I Alder Vidiver.

3735
05:44:51,200 --> 05:44:56,000
» I
>> Alder Viver. I Alder Jang.

3736
05:44:55,120 --> 05:44:58,718
» No.
>> Alder Jang. No. Alder Evers.

3737
05:44:58,240 --> 05:45:03,440
» I
>> Alder Evers. I Alder Field.

3738
05:45:01,360 --> 05:45:07,120
» Aler Field. I Alder Figer Cole.
>> I al Figer Cole. I Alder Glenn.

3739
05:45:06,558 --> 05:45:09,600
» No.
>> Alder Glenn. No. Alder Ugar.

3740
05:45:08,958 --> 05:45:12,718
» No.
>> Alder. [clears throat] No. Alder

3741
05:45:11,360 --> 05:45:15,040
Harrington McKenna.
>> Alder Harrington McKenna. No. Alder

3742
05:45:14,240 --> 05:45:18,160
Linkella.
>> I. Ala. I. Alder Lieberman.

3743
05:45:17,680 --> 05:45:22,638
» No.
>> Alder Lieberman. No. Alder Madison.

3744
05:45:20,400 --> 05:45:24,400
» I aler Madison. I Alder Martinez
Rutherford.

3745
05:45:23,760 --> 05:45:27,200
» No.
>> Alder Martinez Rutherford. No. Alder

3746
05:45:26,480 --> 05:45:29,840
Matthews.
>> No.

3747
05:45:27,680 --> 05:45:32,000
» Alder Matthews. No.
>> Alder.

3748
05:45:31,120 --> 05:45:35,040
» No.
>> Zu. No. Alder Pritchette.

3749
05:45:34,400 --> 05:45:43,600
» No.
>> Alder Pritchette. No. 10 eyes. 10 nos.

3750
05:45:39,520 --> 05:45:47,958
» With 10 eyes and 10 nos. The item fails.
>> So the item is still before us.

3751
05:45:50,080 --> 05:45:53,480
there doubt.

3752
05:45:53,520 --> 05:46:02,240
» Okay. Uh so the item is still before us.
Alder Jeang

3753
05:46:00,320 --> 05:46:06,638
» motion to adopt the budget amendment to
transfer $28,500

3754
05:46:05,680 --> 05:46:10,638
to
>> Are you moving the original?

3755
05:46:08,320 --> 05:46:13,600
» Moving the original to adopt.
>> The motion is to adopt. There's a

3756
05:46:12,240 --> 05:46:19,120
second. Do you wish to speak to it,
older?

3757
05:46:15,200 --> 05:46:24,718
Um, I think that with the contentious
nature of this movement and also with

3758
05:46:22,558 --> 05:46:31,200
the comments made
um, I guess 2 hours ago

3759
05:46:28,080 --> 05:46:35,120
um, about the responsibility and the
ability that we have to support the

3760
05:46:33,040 --> 05:46:42,000
community. I think that this is a
reasonable ask and I support it.

3761
05:46:40,000 --> 05:46:48,080
» Thank you, Alder Alder Matthews.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I

3762
05:46:45,440 --> 05:46:52,798
really appreciate that and um I think
that the community at a minimum deserves

3763
05:46:50,798 --> 05:46:58,638
that we take a vote on this and I think
that when all of the headlines come out

3764
05:46:56,080 --> 05:47:03,600
tomorrow and they don't say council
voted

3765
05:47:00,638 --> 05:47:08,584
whatever 11 to 10 to do nothing, that's
going to be good for us that that's not

3766
05:47:05,200 --> 05:47:13,440
the headline tomorrow. So, um I think
[snorts] everyone knows how I would like

3767
05:47:10,080 --> 05:47:19,280
to vote. And again, I tried really hard
to be as reasonable as I possibly could

3768
05:47:16,160 --> 05:47:23,680
as an example to all the folks that
everyone keeps telling me are not being

3769
05:47:21,120 --> 05:47:28,240
reasonable.
Thanks.

3770
05:47:25,280 --> 05:47:33,040
Thank you, Alder. Alder Okovitz.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I was not

3771
05:47:30,718 --> 05:47:38,320
originally planning on speaking. Um, I
would have spoken on the last motion if

3772
05:47:35,040 --> 05:47:41,680
I was, but it seems we are at
a bit of an impass. Um, because I don't

3773
05:47:40,400 --> 05:47:46,240
think there are the votes to pass the
item.

3774
05:47:43,360 --> 05:47:51,520
Every vote that we have been having on
the OIM and the OIM's budget has been

3775
05:47:48,958 --> 05:47:55,520
implicitly or directly a referendum on
the behavior and conduct of the

3776
05:47:53,520 --> 05:48:01,760
independent monitor and not just IM
glass but the previous IM as well. Um

3777
05:47:58,480 --> 05:48:07,200
when it came to the uh budget amendment
last year, it was a reflection of the

3778
05:48:04,480 --> 05:48:12,320
lack of work that the previous IM did
and the

3779
05:48:09,440 --> 05:48:19,040
nobody would call the office successful
um under the previous IM and then IM

3780
05:48:14,718 --> 05:48:22,958
class came um and I voted yes uh or I
voted no on the budget amendments last

3781
05:48:20,798 --> 05:48:29,520
year because I had hoped that a new IM
would be really helpful for the office.

3782
05:48:26,400 --> 05:48:35,120
they could um actually bring about
effective

3783
05:48:31,440 --> 05:48:41,680
police oversight. uh back in March when
I am Glassass was pretty new um she

3784
05:48:38,958 --> 05:48:46,798
offered to meet with all alders and I
met with her in March um and we talked

3785
05:48:44,798 --> 05:48:53,440
about the things she wanted for the
office, the issues that she saw um where

3786
05:48:50,798 --> 05:48:59,840
she wanted to go and I asked her
explicitly about hiring the new

3787
05:48:56,798 --> 05:49:03,600
independent monitor and she told me that
she didn't want to leave the office in a

3788
05:49:01,680 --> 05:49:09,280
state that would be bad for somebody
new, but she also told me that she would

3789
05:49:05,600 --> 05:49:13,520
be starting that process this summer. It
was not long after that that I started

3790
05:49:11,200 --> 05:49:20,400
hearing rumors that she was talking with
PCO Chair Maya Pearson about um

3791
05:49:18,638 --> 05:49:26,878
about being appointed as the permanent
monitor. Um I find that a bit

3792
05:49:23,760 --> 05:49:31,440
unsettling. Um but it was just a rumor.
Um but now if you go back and if you

3793
05:49:29,600 --> 05:49:36,558
look at the June meetings and if you
look at the July meetings and if you

3794
05:49:33,600 --> 05:49:42,400
look at open records between the chair
and um I am glass and HR it is clear

3795
05:49:40,878 --> 05:49:46,160
that they have been planning for a while
to appoint I am glass as the permanent

3796
05:49:44,480 --> 05:49:50,400
monitor.
I bring this all up because there has

3797
05:49:48,080 --> 05:49:58,798
been a lot of talk of trust, a lot of
talk of um what we can do to rebuild all

3798
05:49:54,638 --> 05:50:04,160
of these things. And I feel like I again
all of this is a referendum on I am

3799
05:50:01,200 --> 05:50:08,798
glass right now. And it is tough for me
to vote yes to give an apartment more

3800
05:50:06,558 --> 05:50:14,718
money when I feel like the leader of
that department lied to my face and came

3801
05:50:11,440 --> 05:50:20,718
here on an interim job and is now
playing politics and pushing for a

3802
05:50:17,040 --> 05:50:26,400
permanent job. And so I want independent
police oversight, but every single step

3803
05:50:23,360 --> 05:50:31,600
of this has been adversarial between I
am glass and the city. From just taking

3804
05:50:28,958 --> 05:50:36,958
an hour training to get access to a
website to how can we work around our

3805
05:50:34,718 --> 05:50:43,760
dedicated HR processes which are there
to protect taxpayer money to make sure

3806
05:50:40,320 --> 05:50:48,798
that um what we are doing is not just
benefiting people you know it's not

3807
05:50:45,760 --> 05:50:53,200
backdoor processes. I this has just been
crazy to me. We I signed on to the

3808
05:50:51,680 --> 05:50:59,520
amendments
um on that April meeting and the reason

3809
05:50:56,958 --> 05:51:03,120
was I just I wanted to have a discussion
about it. I did not like the case we

3810
05:51:01,600 --> 05:51:07,280
were having. We kicked the amendments
down the line.

3811
05:51:05,120 --> 05:51:10,480
The disaster happened at the end of July
and we still have not had an actual

3812
05:51:09,040 --> 05:51:16,160
discussion on the structure of the
office outside of

3813
05:51:13,760 --> 05:51:20,798
some PCOB meetings. But this chamber has
not had a discussion on this office and

3814
05:51:18,638 --> 05:51:24,400
the structure. We can't have those
discussions out in the open. People have

3815
05:51:22,798 --> 05:51:28,638
been having them behind closed doors.
And it's not me. I don't I there's been

3816
05:51:27,120 --> 05:51:35,040
accusations of this, but I don't know
what that's about. Um I just I'll stop

3817
05:51:32,718 --> 05:51:38,798
there. But this is why I am voting to
place this on file is because I don't

3818
05:51:37,120 --> 05:51:43,760
think that this office can effectively
move forward under I am Glassass's

3819
05:51:40,718 --> 05:51:49,120
leadership. Thank you.
Thank you, Alder.

3820
05:51:46,080 --> 05:51:53,120
I have no other alders in Alder
Lieberman.

3821
05:51:50,718 --> 05:51:57,280
» Yeah, I just wanted uh to be clear on
two things. One, I did somebody second

3822
05:51:55,840 --> 05:52:02,320
the motion.
>> Okay, I might just missed that. And then

3823
05:51:59,360 --> 05:52:03,760
this requires a 15 vote to pass. Okay,
thank you.

3824
05:52:02,638 --> 05:52:11,920
» That's correct.
>> Thank you, Alder. Alder Pitchett,

3825
05:52:07,520 --> 05:52:18,718
» you know, I I echo uh what u Alder Oakis
is saying. Uh I too have some concerns

3826
05:52:15,840 --> 05:52:25,760
about that. Not only that, but when I
think about um

3827
05:52:22,000 --> 05:52:30,320
on I think it was August 4th and when
someone when the monitor becomes the

3828
05:52:28,558 --> 05:52:38,558
story,
the monitor became the story

3829
05:52:34,160 --> 05:52:43,600
when she inserted herself
at the camp [clears throat] at the

3830
05:52:39,840 --> 05:52:49,760
encampment site. That's a no no. I went
back and I have looked at my dictionary

3831
05:52:46,240 --> 05:52:55,360
meaning of monitor
and it does not mean inserting yourself.

3832
05:52:52,638 --> 05:52:59,680
It means standing back making
observations

3833
05:52:56,878 --> 05:53:06,000
making contemporarous notes so that you
know what happened. But to insert

3834
05:53:02,160 --> 05:53:10,718
yourself that's a no no. I have
standards.

3835
05:53:07,920 --> 05:53:15,680
I have high expectations
and I will not sit here and allow

3836
05:53:14,080 --> 05:53:22,718
someone
to just be mediocre

3837
05:53:18,798 --> 05:53:29,520
because mediocrity is not what we need.
We need someone who's going to do the

3838
05:53:24,958 --> 05:53:34,080
work. I hear the OIM and the PCO saying
we got to do the work.

3839
05:53:32,000 --> 05:53:39,040
We got to do the work. We need money to
do the work. I look at the reports that

3840
05:53:36,798 --> 05:53:45,600
have been written and if they had been
handed to me I would have done this.

3841
05:53:42,958 --> 05:53:50,718
That's the quality as I said I have
standards. Thank you.

3842
05:53:48,718 --> 05:53:58,718
» Thank you Alder. I have no other elders
in the queue. Uh so we will go to the

3843
05:53:55,600 --> 05:54:04,798
question. The motion before us is to
adopt

3844
05:54:00,400 --> 05:54:12,240
uh the original um
resolution. It is a 15 vote item. Um so

3845
05:54:08,958 --> 05:54:16,558
all those in favor of adoption
will say I. Those opposed no. As your

3846
05:54:14,958 --> 05:54:19,120
name is called and the clerk will please
call the role.

3847
05:54:17,600 --> 05:54:23,760
» Thank you. Alder mayor
>> I.

3848
05:54:19,680 --> 05:54:29,680
» Aler mayor I. Alderu.
>> Renseu I. Alder O'Brien. No

3849
05:54:26,320 --> 05:54:32,320
» auto Brian. No autoic.
>> No.

3850
05:54:30,000 --> 05:54:37,000
» Alder Hovich. No. Alder Pritchette.
>> No.

3851
05:54:32,798 --> 05:54:37,000
» Alder Pritchette. No. Alder Tishler.

3852
05:54:38,000 --> 05:54:41,360
» No.
>> Alder Tishler. No. Alder.

3853
05:54:40,878 --> 05:54:44,638
» No.
>> Alder. No. Alder Vidver.

3854
05:54:43,920 --> 05:54:48,480
» No.
>> Alder Ver. No. Alder Jang.

3855
05:54:47,840 --> 05:54:54,000
» Yes.
>> Aler Jang. I. Alder Evers.

3856
05:54:50,878 --> 05:54:56,160
» Aler Evers. No. Alderfield.
No. Alder Figo. Cole,

3857
05:54:55,360 --> 05:54:58,878
» no.
>> Figural Cole. No. Alder Glenn.

3858
05:54:58,320 --> 05:55:01,840
» Hi.
>> Alder Glenn. I Alder Gear.

3859
05:55:01,200 --> 05:55:06,440
» No.
>> Alder Gear. No. Alder Harrington

3860
05:55:03,440 --> 05:55:06,440
McKenna.

3861
05:55:08,718 --> 05:55:14,240
Al McKenna abstains. Otto Kella.
>> No.

3862
05:55:12,400 --> 05:55:17,200
» Link Kella. No. Ot Lieberman.
>> Hi.

3863
05:55:15,040 --> 05:55:21,120
» Lieberman. I alter Madison.
>> No.

3864
05:55:17,920 --> 05:55:27,840
» Madison. No. Otter Martinez Rutherford.
>> Martinez Rutherford. I Matthews. I

3865
05:55:24,320 --> 05:55:32,400
» Matthews I we have seven eyes 12 nos one
abstain.

3866
05:55:30,000 --> 05:55:36,840
» Okay with seven eyes and 12 nos and one
abstension the item veils.

3867
05:55:36,958 --> 05:55:43,958
So [sighs and gasps]
we will move on to item

3868
05:55:44,000 --> 05:55:51,600
» 68.
Item 68 is legisar 94196

3869
05:55:49,840 --> 05:55:56,480
authorizing the mayor and the city clerk
to execute a contract between the city

3870
05:55:53,360 --> 05:56:02,080
of Madison and SH for planning,
engineering and public engagement

3871
05:55:59,040 --> 05:56:07,680
services for East Washington Avenue uh
highway 30 to Anamar and Schroeder Road,

3872
05:56:04,958 --> 05:56:15,680
Whitney Way to Gammon Road in districts
3, 12, 17, 19, and 20. On item 68, uh,

3873
05:56:13,840 --> 05:56:18,240
President Madison, a motion, please.
Motion to adopt.

3874
05:56:16,718 --> 05:56:26,600
» Is there a second?
>> Moved and seconded to adopt item 68.

3875
05:56:21,760 --> 05:56:26,600
Uh on item 68.

3876
05:56:27,600 --> 05:56:31,798
» Are there questions for staff?

3877
05:56:32,080 --> 05:56:39,760
» Alder Harrington McKini.
>> Uh yes. My question is about the uh

3878
05:56:37,440 --> 05:56:45,280
public engagement. What is uh what is
the the plan for that? could you speak

3879
05:56:42,080 --> 05:56:52,160
to to that and more specifically is how
do how is the plan to get those voices

3880
05:56:48,718 --> 05:56:56,480
to the table that are normally not
heard?

3881
05:56:54,480 --> 05:57:04,360
Uh,
Alder, I am looking for staff that might

3882
05:56:59,840 --> 05:57:04,360
be able to answer your question

3883
05:57:05,040 --> 05:57:14,200
and I am not seeing any transportation
staff left in the meeting.

3884
05:57:17,360 --> 05:57:23,480
I'm sorry, Alder. I don't think there's
anyone here that can answer your

3885
05:57:20,480 --> 05:57:23,480
question.

3886
05:57:23,520 --> 05:57:31,360
So, I perhaps
you could reach out to transportation

3887
05:57:28,240 --> 05:57:36,080
staff. I think it's probably traffic
engineering.

3888
05:57:33,360 --> 05:57:39,680
Um, I did, but I'll follow up on
offline.

3889
05:57:36,878 --> 05:57:46,160
» Okay. Thank you, Alder.
Um, item 68 has been moved and seconded.

3890
05:57:43,760 --> 05:57:50,080
Uh, I will not ask if there's additional
questions for staff since there are no

3891
05:57:47,600 --> 05:57:53,558
staff here to answer them. Uh, but is
there any discussion?

3892
05:57:53,600 --> 05:57:59,440
Seeing
none, is there any objection to

3893
05:57:57,680 --> 05:58:02,760
recording unanimous vote in favor of
item 68?

3894
05:58:02,878 --> 05:58:12,718
Seeing no objection, item 68 will pass.
That brings us to the end of our agenda.

3895
05:58:11,040 --> 05:58:17,798
Are there any announcements or
additional introductions of items from

3896
05:58:14,558 --> 05:58:17,798
the floor?

3897
05:58:18,718 --> 05:58:26,638
Seeing none, Alder
mayor

3898
05:58:24,080 --> 05:58:32,000
has left the building. Who's next in the
list?

3899
05:58:28,798 --> 05:58:33,360
» I don't want to
time next week.

3900
05:58:32,878 --> 05:58:36,320
» Okay.
>> So,

3901
05:58:34,000 --> 05:58:39,760
» uh, we'll go to Alder Madison. A motion,
please.

3902
05:58:38,558 --> 05:58:42,400
» Is there a second?
>> Second.

3903
05:58:40,320 --> 05:58:46,958
» Moved and seconded to adjurnn. Is there
any objection to recording? Unanimous

3904
05:58:44,320 --> 05:58:55,080
vote in favor of adjournment.
Seeing no objection, we stand adjourned.

3905
05:58:50,480 --> 05:58:55,080
Have a good morning everyone.