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to this meeting of the conservation
and we're being recorded. Meeting of the

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conservation commission of Manchester by
the sea on September 8th, 2026 held

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under the opices of the wetlands
protection act of the Commonwealth and

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our local general wetlands bylaw. Our
missions here are to protect the

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wetlands and to serve our neighbors. And
we're happy to see so many of you around

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the uh the virtual table to join us
tonight.

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Uh a couple of notes before we get
going. This meeting is being conducted

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entirely virtually on Zoom uh in in
accordance with continuing rules and

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regs from the state.
And uh that means a couple of things.

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One is that we're recording on Zoom.
Uh two is that because we have had a

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rash of Zoom bombing on other boards and
commissions uh we have disabled uh

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participants video. So you'll be able to
uh listen and if when it's appropriate

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for public comment if you have a
question or a comment you'll need to

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click the raise hand button in Zoom so
that we can see that you want to say

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something and we will then unmute you
and let you speak. It's also important

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for you to use your last first and last
name on Zoom and I see that almost

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everybody has done that. Thank you. Uh
or some other easily identifiable thing

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like Red Barn Architect.
Um because we know who you are.

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Uh and
I think that's it for Zoom. Because

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we're on Zoom, we'll conduct all of our
voting by roll call.

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And we have a chat function, but please
don't use it unless you have a technical

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question. Uh if you have anything
substantive to ask or to comment on, um

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it will not go into the permanent record
public record if you put it in chat.

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There will be a time for public comment,
questions, and comments. I'll tell you

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when that is. And as I said, you'll need
to hit the raise hand button. Once

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you're uh recognized, please give us
your name and address or affiliation if

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it's a profession
and uh try to keep your question or

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comment to two minutes.
Um you you're to direct your questions

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and comments to Henry or me as co-chair
rather than to specific consultants or

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applicants.
Um you most of you know probably that's

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why you're here that we will open a
hearing tonight to confirm the wetland

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delineations
on uh proposed sites owned by Gordon

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College and and proposed to be developed
by Jefferson Apartment Group. Um please

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understand that it's just the type and
location of wetlands that we're

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discussing tonight. Um and not any
construction or other alteration. So

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there is no proposal yet uh for specific
buildings or driveways or

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um other kinds of things that impact the
wetlands. We're simply going to address

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the question of where are the wetlands,
what kind are they, and what are the

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buffer zones around them. Um many of you
know this is customary for very large

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scale projects. We did it for example in
great detail before we heard the plans

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for the new elementary school in
Manchester. We had peer review of the

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wetlands delineations. The same thing
happened on the uh cell signaling site,

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although they only have a small amount
of wetland jurisdiction involved. So,

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it's not there's nothing unusual about
it. But tonight is not the night to

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weigh in on the pros and cons of
building on this site, simply to offer

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your opinions or questions about the
nature and location of the wetlands.

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Okay. Hey, with that I'll call the role
of the commissioners and staff and we

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can get going. Uh Dr. Odinger
>> here.

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» Dr. Turner
>> here.

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Mr. Hammond.

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» Sorry, Mr. Hoffman. Why do I always do
that?

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» I'm here.
>> Thank you.

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Uh Ms. farmer
>> here.

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» And uh
we do have uh

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Mr. Oala, you are here. Yes, you are.
>> I am.

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» Excellent. Is that why you raised your
hand?

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» Yes, because I was muted before.
>> Perfect. Yeah.

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All right. So, we have a quorum present.
Uh we also have our uh conservation

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administrator Bethany Barstow and
possibly some other town officials whom

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you may meet as we proceed here. Uh we
also have town council president uh

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George Pooie.

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All right. Uh so I'll open the public
hearings and we start with notices of

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intent. The first of which is a
continuation for five kings way DP

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number 39-951.
Applicant is Ryan Mcsher. Property owner

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is Matthew Lewis. And this is trenching
and placement of electrical and

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communication utilities from an existing
transformer location which is off the

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property u but within the 100 foot
buffer uh to bordering vegetated

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wetland.

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And do we have a representative of Yes,
we do. Welcome.

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» Good evening, everybody.
>> On mute.

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» There you are.
>> Am I on?

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» Yes, you are.
>> Uh, for the record, Ryan McShara here,

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Red Barn Architecture. We're located at
8 to 10 Martin Street in Essex,

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Massachusetts.

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» Thank you.

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Shall I update uh the commission on what
we've been working on since we last

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appeared in front of you all?
>> Perfect.

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» Uh Bethany, I just asked if I could
share my screen. I don't know if you can

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allow me to
>> do so. Let me try again. There we go.

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Okay.
So since our last meeting uh we've done

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two main things uh to the plans and
application uh for you guys. Um so one

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of the things was we had our uh wetland
scientist uh Leah Bazbains head out to

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the uh site and uh update the flagging
for the wetlands um which has been

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updated on our site plan uh as well as
the corresponding buffer zones. Um so

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all of that is uh in updated and should
be in accordance uh with your standards

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uh for that work. Um and the other thing
that we did was uh you might recall from

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our site work uh we had discussed some
improvements to be made along this side

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of the uh common driveway in between the
transformer and our driveway access for

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five kings. Um we have removed that from
our scope of work and uh the neighbors

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are working on getting that uh a
separate uh work order permit order with

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uh the town and working with Bethany to
get that uh squared away. Um so uh all

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of our application materials have been
updated uh now to match uh the new uh

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wetlands condition as well as the
updated scope of work statement. Um, so

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outside of that, I believe we have
everything you all need to make your

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final review and determination on this
project, but would be happy to answer

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any final questions the commission might
have or go through any uh of the other

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facts or parts of the story that uh you
might need a reminder on.

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» Okay. Thank you, Ryan. Are there
questions or comments from the

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commission?
>> I'm just wondering if Bethany had a

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chance to get out there recently.
Not recently, but I did go out there a

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bunch when this was first started.
>> Okay.

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» We did have a
>> You looked at the new delineations and

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you like what you see.

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» I did not get a chance to review the new
delineations.

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I went when it was first
presented as a notice of intent.

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» Okay. Well, then I guess I can ask Ryan,
are there any significant changes in the

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wetlands delineation?
>> No, there were no significant changes.

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Uh, it was almost exactly where the
original wetland uh delineation was at

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the time. Uh, and the flags are still
out there if anybody would like to go

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out and uh confirm uh their existence
and location on site. We also had a uh

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professional land surveyor out to locate
those flags. uh and he shared the

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information with us that we got onto our
site plan. So that's how we got it from

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the field onto this plan here today.
>> Good. I have one question which is I I

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can't remember did you specify what
kinds and and scope of mitigation

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plantings you were going to do?
[sighs and gasps]

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Um I uh correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm
not sure that we have any requirement

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for uh mitigation uh for um plantings
here. Uh I believe all of the work is

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outside of the wetland and located
within the buffer because the uh common

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driveway technically outside of the
wetland and all of this work is buffer

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work. Is that correct, Bethany?
Yes, it was a long chat with D

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discussing this, but technically since
it's already in the disturbed already

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there existing driveway, it is
technically classified as buffer zone.

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» Okay. And you're outside the 50 foot no
build, so you're correct. Mitigation is

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not
uh required.

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Uh but I remember you proposing to do
some uh native plantings. So I just

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» any detail on that?
>> Yep. Exactly. So uh so we have not uh

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started that work yet. Uh if you've been
out to the site recently uh the septic

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system leeching field uh has been placed
at the bottom of the hill. Um, and our

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intent there is to actually uh infill
this entire area here on the site plan

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um with uh native grass, native
plantings, native wild flowers uh to

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bring it back in to have that sort of be
a more natural landscape as opposed to a

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uh to to a mowed lawn area.
Mhm.

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» Okay,
>> Steve. I'm I think that I'm I'm

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confident this doesn't need uh more of
our attention. I'm going to move to

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close the hearing on Mass D390951
for 5 Kingsway.

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» Appreciate that. Let me just ask if
there's any public question or comment

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on Five Kings Way before we close.

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And I am seeing none. So the motion's in
order. Is there a second?

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» I second.
>> Thank you, Jim. Moved and seconded. All

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those in favor? Marty.
>> Yes. I

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» Arnold
>> I.

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» Jim.
>> I.

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» Gordon.
>> I.

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» Henry.
>> I.

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» And I'll make that unanimous. Six eyes.
So that is closed. Shall we move to

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conditions for this?
>> I already have it up. So yes.

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» Okay.

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» One second.

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Does everyone see?
>> Yes.

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» I included the new memo that was sent by
Ryan on the approved plans and docu.

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» Good.
>> Um,

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» stop at special. Perfect.
>> Yes.

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Since there's no mitigation plantings,
they should

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» Yep. No plan required.

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» Bethany, do any of the conditions apply
to the

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new
placement of rocks or boulders along the

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driveway?
>> No, I think what Ryan was discussing, me

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and the neighbor, technically the
boulders, the placement of boulders or

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like technically the neighbor's
property. I'm working with him on that.

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» Got it. Thank you.
>> Because it will just be messy if it's

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like both properties under one order.
>> Yep. Got it. It's the smart way. Smart

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right the right way to go.
>> These look fine to me. Any questions or

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comments from commissioners?

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» No. We look at perpetual.
>> Yes.

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I'm gonna
>> simple

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» make it nice looking. Nicer looking.
Sorry.

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» Yeah.
>> Do we have do we have a condition in

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there about um um treating the driveway
for ice and snow? It's it's fairly steep

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and I know it's going to need something.
>> No, but we can add something.

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» Yeah, I think that's appropriate here.
We I don't think we need to worry about

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fertilizers and insecticides.
>> Yeah, we always have those.

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» But it does seem like everything's
running downhill here. So, um

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» into the wetland.
>> So, our standard condition prohibits the

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use of of uh
>> deicing,

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» sodium chloride
>> or limits it to the minimum amount

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necessary. Can't remember the exact
language.

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I think there's probably like a other
condition I can find from a different or

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special condition that has that.
[clears throat]

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» So I could use this buffer language and
fix it.

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» Okay.
>> As amended.

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» So
>> so minim minimal

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» nothing about treat treatment for um
winter winter treatment of the driveway

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shall be limited to the minimum amount
of chemicals required for safety.

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words to that effect.
>> Yes, I will find the exact

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verbage as

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» anything else.

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» All right, I'll hear a motion to grant
an order of conditions with these

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special perpetuals.
>> So moved.

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» Second.
>> Second. Thank you, Marty. All those in

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favor, Henry.
>> I

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» Gordon.
>> Hi,

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» Jim.
>> Hi,

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» Arnold.

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» He says I silently. Yes, he unambiguous.
I perfect.

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» Arnold's still muted because he came
back into the meeting.

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» Um,
>> sorry.

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» As you are.
>> Hi,

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» Marty.
Are you an I or an A, Marty? I'm

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00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,959
» an I. Sorry.
>> Thank you. And so am I. So it's

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unanimous.
Thank you, Ryan. Good luck with it.

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» And uh if I might uh really quickly uh
maybe this is something for offline,

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Bethany, but um next steps will receive
this order of conditions and we set up a

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00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:28,880
pre-construction meeting with you to go
over everything and review next steps.

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» Yes. Like D number, erosion control.
>> Yep.

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» The works. I have a whole checklist.
Yes. But email me with any questions you

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have. I'm always happy to answer.
>> Excellent. Thank you all. Thank you for

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your time. I really appreciate it.
>> Bye, Ryan.

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» Welcome.
>> Thank you.

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» The next notice of intent is another
continuation at Zero School Street, D

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File 39-953.
Applicant is Jeffrey Ingler. Property

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00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:59,839
owner is Andrew Brown.
Project is construction of a 92,560

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give or take square foot three-story
multif family residential building

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with
access driveway to end of the

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development from school street minor
surface parking parking garage utilities

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outdoor amenities storm water management
a sewage pumping station and a native

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landscaping plan among other things.
Um, as the peer review is underway, the

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00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:28,559
applicant has requested that we continue
this to our next meeting, which is

218
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,880
September 22nd.
And, uh, I so move. Is there a second?

219
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:38,960
» Second.
>> U, can we I have a question about that?

220
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:45,840
» Certainly. before you. So, there was
some additional info uh that Bethany had

221
00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:54,000
sent out a letter from um
>> I guess the state regarding the

222
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:58,400
joining of the water treatment and they
said it it didn't conform. Is that I

223
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:04,000
don't know there were
>> Jim I can answer that.

224
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:08,880
» Bethany, I'm gonna pause you for a sec.
Are we okay deliberating this case or

225
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:12,480
are we
>> Bethany can state the facts but we can't

226
00:18:11,679 --> 00:18:13,600
discuss them?
>> Yeah,

227
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:20,880
» great.
>> That D comment which can be found on the

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00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:26,559
website under 40B proposals has been
sent to the applicant and has been sent

229
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:31,120
to the peer reviewer and will probably
be discussed at the next continued

230
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:36,240
hearing. But since they requested a
continuence, I feel like we should

231
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:41,679
respect that and continue.
>> Right. I I just wanted to make sure that

232
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:46,559
we we weren't um you know, going to hit
him up in three weeks with another uh

233
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:51,200
you know, that that they were aware
that, you know, I I I just thought that

234
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,559
should all be addressed.
>> Of course.

235
00:18:51,679 --> 00:19:00,320
» Good point.
>> Thank you, Jim. Everybody online should

236
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:05,679
if they want to um go to the 4DB website
and read the

237
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:08,679
text of the comments from D on this
project.

238
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:19,400
» It moves us. Oh, sorry. We should vote.
>> Take a vote on continuation to September

239
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,400
22nd. All those in favor? Arnold

240
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,799
muted again.
Give us an up or a down.

241
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,720
» Thumbs up or thumbs down or the thumbs
up.

242
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:31,120
» That counts as an I. Thank you. Uh Jim,
>> I

243
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:33,840
» Gordon.
>> I'll abstain. Uh Steve, since I'm

244
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,160
recused.
>> Thank you. Marty,

245
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,120
» I
>> and uh Henry

246
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:46,080
» I
>> and I am an I2. So it is five eyes, one

247
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:53,280
abstension,
and it is continued. The third matter is

248
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:59,799
a a notice of intent also continued from
previous meeting for 195 Summer Street

249
00:19:55,919 --> 00:19:59,799
DP 39-952.

250
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:08,080
The owner is 195 Summer Street Realy
Trust who is also the applicant. These

251
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:15,760
are proposed site improvements
um with um

252
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:22,559
building modifications uh restoration of
a wall and um associated features. This

253
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:29,240
is all happening within the 50oot and 30
foot um buffer zones to Coastal Bank.

254
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:39,520
All right. Is there anything uh new or
different that uh you'd like to bring

255
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:42,640
up? Uh is that Tom?
>> Yes. Can you hear me?

256
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,039
» Yes, we can.
>> Great.

257
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:49,360
» Welcome.
>> For the record, Tom Saxs, Hancock

258
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:55,039
Associates, 185 Center Street in
Danfirst. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so,

259
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:59,760
just a quick recap, we our last meeting
was August 11th. Caitlyn White, our

260
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:04,159
wetland scientist, was attending this
meeting and you guys had a few comments

261
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:09,360
and we wanted to kind of push forwards
for a sitewalk. I think it was the

262
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:14,559
following week. Um, my my notes have
August 15th you had a sitewalk with Jay

263
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:18,960
Palakawitz. Um, and there he was able to
address questions, review the design

264
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:23,919
with you. Um, we have not made any
changes to our design. Um, so from this

265
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:29,120
point we were just looking to see if you
guys have any further questions that Jay

266
00:21:25,679 --> 00:21:34,840
wasn't able to clarify and um, we I can
pull up the landscape plan if you would

267
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,840
like just to review it also.

268
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:41,039
» Thank you, Tom. I don't have any
questions. Anybody else on the

269
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:45,520
commission have a comment or question?
>> No.

270
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:50,679
» Good. Anyone in the public have a
comment or question on 195 Summer

271
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:50,679
Street?

272
00:21:54,559 --> 00:22:01,799
Doesn't look that way.
>> No, doesn't look that way. See, Tom.

273
00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:07,200
» All right, then. Commission, ready to
vote to close this hearing?

274
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,679
» Sure.
>> Yes.

275
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:14,880
» Let's have a motion.
>> I will move that we close the hearing on

276
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,840
D 0390952,
195 Summer Street.

277
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:22,400
» Second. I
>> second. Arnold.

278
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:24,880
» Thank you, Arnold. All those in favor?
Gordon.

279
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,440
» Hi,
>> Marty.

280
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,240
» Hi,
>> Jim.

281
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,240
» I

282
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,760
um Arnold,
>> hi.

283
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,760
» And Henry,
>> hi.

284
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:44,679
» And I'll be an I as well. So, that we've
closed that hearing. Shall we move to

285
00:22:41,679 --> 00:22:44,679
conditions?

286
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:50,799
» Bethany,
>> I have it open. Yep. Just give me

287
00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:53,799
» has done her homework.
>> Yes.

288
00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:08,120
Let me scroll back up. Sorry.

289
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:16,919
Where it was? We just passed it. Yeah.
Sorry.

290
00:23:26,159 --> 00:23:33,200
Okay. 75% survivorship. Is there a
reason we dropped that from our normal

291
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:37,480
85?
>> I think it's just a typing error.

292
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,760
» Fixed.

293
00:23:41,919 --> 00:23:48,039
That's why we triple check these things.
>> Thank you. Any

294
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:57,760
comments or questions from the
commission on these?

295
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:02,720
I I have a question that is not directly
related to

296
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:09,520
» the special issues we have, but the uh
the the gardens uh it's an Mstead garden

297
00:24:05,679 --> 00:24:18,200
and I wondered if there is any plan to
make those um

298
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:18,200
visible occasionally to the public.

299
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:24,240
» That's outside of our scope.
>> Yeah.

300
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,799
» Yeah. I think we'll hold that for
another time.

301
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:32,480
» Okay.
>> Um Steve, I had a question. Um

302
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:38,080
» Mhm.
>> is does the commission feel like the

303
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:42,559
plantings at the top of the bank will be
sufficient to help prevent erosion? Do

304
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:48,720
we need to specify anything in these
conditions that would um

305
00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:56,880
you know be for greater root depth or
anything like that or are we comfortable

306
00:24:50,799 --> 00:25:01,840
with the um proposal as is?
>> Good question. Um [clears throat]

307
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:06,080
maybe uh Tom or someone can review what
materials they're planning to use on the

308
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:11,840
steepest grades.
>> So I think John's I'm looking at John's

309
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:16,240
landscape plan. Um it does look like we
are proposing uh to seed the slope with

310
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:22,159
New England erosion control restoration
mix for dry sites. Um I don't know John

311
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:28,559
if you want to speak to that um what
that mix entails but I I don't not sure

312
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:34,640
if that's typical for for coastal banks.
>> Uh thank you. It is. This is John Pate.

313
00:25:31,679 --> 00:25:40,480
Um I'm a landscape architect and head
head gardener at the chimneys uh 195

314
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:47,039
Summer Street. Um that's our our has
been our most successful seed mix um in

315
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:55,200
adjacent areas that are of the same
sandy material. Um uh for establishments

316
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:58,799
is a lot easier than plants um for sure.
>> Okay.

317
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:04,320
And if I could ask, is that is that the
plan then for that area that has the

318
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:09,120
small I I believe it was a wooden
material retaining wall that was being

319
00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:13,360
removed and replaced and regraded.
>> It is. Yes.

320
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,919
» All right. Thank you.
>> Else on the commission.

321
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:26,480
» I see one hand from the public. That's
Greg Lewis.

322
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:30,960
» Yes. Levis. Um I'm from um Brookson Hill
Builders, the uh the general contractor

323
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:36,960
on this project. I'm just reading number
17 on the uh conditions. Um it says

324
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:42,320
trenching for utilities should be
shortterm backfilled at the end of the

325
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:47,760
workday. Given the extent of these
trenches and the conduits that need to

326
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,919
be uh placed in them and inspected by
electrical inspector,

327
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:55,360
» I don't think it's reasonable to to
backfill them within uh a single

328
00:26:53,919 --> 00:27:00,240
workday.
>> Okay.

329
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:05,039
» Um we can certainly make it short term
and there will be we'll put erosion

330
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:12,000
control around them and you know uh
fencing for um safety. Um, but I I I I

331
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:16,320
do need more than a day.
>> Do you have a proposal, Greg, for how

332
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:18,640
many days?
>> Um,

333
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:22,320
» you might need
>> I mean, I think a week is reasonable.

334
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:26,159
And if it takes longer, you know, these
are pretty long trenches. Um, we

335
00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:31,600
[clears throat] can do it like segmented
as well. Um, but I think having a trench

336
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:35,360
open for a week gives us time to dig,
install the conduits, and also have them

337
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:40,080
inspected by the town, which is a
requirement.

338
00:27:37,919 --> 00:27:44,559
Yeah, barring storm events, right?
>> Yeah. Certainly plan around weather

339
00:27:43,064 --> 00:27:48,480
[clears throat] for sure.
>> The second half of the sentence is more

340
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:52,080
important than you have a way to protect
them from cave-in or erosion.

341
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:57,720
» Yep.
>> Should we get rid of the back fields or

342
00:27:54,399 --> 00:27:57,720
keep the

343
00:27:58,399 --> 00:28:04,640
» I mean, I would prefer that that was not
included. [clears throat]

344
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:09,919
You know, the duration to backfill. Um,
I think just saying that they're

345
00:28:06,159 --> 00:28:14,000
protected um for the environment and for
safety.

346
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:18,480
» We say backfilled or protected from
storm events

347
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:21,200
» as appropriate. [clears throat]
>> That works for me.

348
00:28:20,159 --> 00:28:25,720
» Sooner or later, you're going to have to
backfill them.

349
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:25,720
» Yeah. No, exactly.

350
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:34,399
» The ore instead of and
>> Yeah. Backfilled or protected from

351
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:41,120
erosion during storm events.
So if they happen to be open, they you

352
00:28:37,919 --> 00:28:44,399
arrange protection. Yep.
>> Thank you.

353
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:49,000
» So Mr. Frank had you had your hand up as
well. You still have a comment?

354
00:28:50,880 --> 00:29:00,120
» Evidently not. Okay.
Um

355
00:28:56,159 --> 00:29:00,120
perpetual conditions

356
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:18,559
There's a deicing
word.

357
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:23,320
» Mhm. There's language limited the amount
necessary to maintain public safety.

358
00:29:25,919 --> 00:29:36,240
I think I have to add um the mitigation
survivorship on it

359
00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:41,039
» as a perpetual.
I think once that's satisfied, it's uh

360
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,279
it's okay. All bets are off.
>> Oh, okay. Okay.

361
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:47,159
» Sorry.
>> It's a two-year condition.

362
00:29:48,159 --> 00:29:54,960
Although
given the skill of the landscaping or

363
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:59,840
gardening there,
>> we could probably meet it perpetually.

364
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:04,960
» Were there any other perpetual
conditions on this particular property

365
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,919
» prior to
>> from from prior u

366
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:11,200
» Mhm.
>> orders?

367
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:18,480
» It's a good question. I imagine we
duplicated the uh [snorts]

368
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:22,480
» the correct toxic substances
>> and the additional alteration, but I'm

369
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:27,440
not sure what else
>> I can take a look.

370
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:37,080
» You can just say that you know other any
other perpetual conditions from prior

371
00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:37,080
orders of condition remain in effect.

372
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,360
I don't think they would anyway, but
yeah,

373
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:52,080
» I certainly, you know, commend the uh
the owners for protecting all the trees

374
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:56,799
along the um the drive. I think they
went

375
00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:03,200
pretty far to
protect a lot of those uh trees close to

376
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:09,760
the road. Yeah, that is it's actually a
brilliant example of cooperation between

377
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:16,960
landowner and conservation trust in this
case MECT because that's all um CR

378
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,200
protected property except for the house
and the gardens.

379
00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:31,520
All right. Um any other comments,
questions?

380
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:38,399
Commission ready to vote on this order?
>> Yep. Y

381
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:41,399
» that we close the hearing on 19 D
0390952

382
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,519
» 1 9
>> um

383
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,840
» sorry we're on Eaglehead, right?
>> No, no, we're on 195, but we need to

384
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:54,880
vote the order with these conditions.
>> We're at order of conditions to approve

385
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:58,640
order of conditions for D 0390952
195 summer.

386
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:02,640
» Perfect. Second.
>> Done. All those in favor? Marty.

387
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,880
» Hi,
>> Arnold.

388
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,880
» I
>> Gordon.

389
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:08,880
» Hi,
>> Jim.

390
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:11,840
» Hi,
>> Henry.

391
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:18,320
» I
agree. I'm an I. It's unanimous. Six in

392
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:25,039
favor. Thank you, team, Tom,
and

393
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:31,440
company. Next is uh a new notice of
intent at 21 Eaglehead Road, DP File

394
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:35,919
39-956.
Applicants are Steven Kelly and

395
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:39,919
Christine Goutier Kelly saying the same
property owner and this is for

396
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:46,120
installation of a septic system
replacing a a failed system in the

397
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,120
buffer zone to BBW.

398
00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:54,080
» Hi, good evening. It's Bill Emanuel from
Wetlands and Land Management.

399
00:32:51,039 --> 00:33:01,360
» Nice to see you. the wetlands on this uh
property and I did the permit

400
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:06,399
application for a voluntary uh effort.
It's not a failing system at at present.

401
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:12,159
The owners aren't sure what they're
going to be doing with the property and

402
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:16,480
uh they are undertaking this effort now
as opposed to perhaps under the duress

403
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:21,600
of a a pending closing or something like
that.

404
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:25,200
Uh so uh this is a for an septic system
upgrade. I can share my screen and show

405
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,840
you the design.
>> Yeah, that help

406
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:48,320
me to do that so folks can see that.
>> Perfect. Uh so 21 Eaglehead Road. Uh

407
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:53,360
this has been approved by the the board
of health and we do have a D file number

408
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:59,600
with no comments.
So uh the wetlands uh meander along the

409
00:33:57,679 --> 00:34:04,960
property line. Here's the property line
here and then it it takes a a uh a hard

410
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:10,639
right turn, but the wetlands sort of
meander initially just offsite and then

411
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:15,119
come back onto the property and loop
around the backyard.

412
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:21,679
Um the 100 foot buffer zone is all the
way out here and this is the 30 foot

413
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:29,119
line and then the 50 foot line existing
home driveway.

414
00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:33,599
Uh the existing system is right in here
and the as a designer found there's a

415
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:38,320
reason why that system is right there
because that's essentially the only

416
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:44,399
place on the property it can be. If you
notice all the uh notation on the plan,

417
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:50,560
uh there is ledge outcrops or shallow
ledge all around the property, uh this

418
00:34:47,839 --> 00:34:55,679
area is a high point. Um it's probably
what the glacier left it. Uh and uh is

419
00:34:54,399 --> 00:35:00,640
that's as I said, it's where the
existing system is and the only place on

420
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:06,240
this site to upgrade will be to
basically rebuild uh remove the old one

421
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:11,520
and rebuild the new one. So this will be
an advanced treatment type system

422
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:18,000
because it is closer to the wetland than
uh uh than the regulations.

423
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:24,400
Uh it is uh the field is only 21 ft away
from the wetlands at its closest point

424
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:33,119
right here. Uh the tanks are uh 28 and
35 ft uh respectively at 28 uh with the

425
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:40,320
uh the bol or the the waterlue bofilter
and then the septic tank pump chamber.

426
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:45,119
Uh it is a raised system and it will
require sort of an extension of an

427
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:49,520
existing low boulder retaining wall
right here. It's about uh you know

428
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:54,960
basically one to two courses of Boulders
High. U the the beauty of all this even

429
00:35:52,880 --> 00:36:00,560
though it is in close proximity to the
adjacent wetlands is it's completely

430
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:05,440
within the existing lawn area. Uh no
vegetation is lost. Here's the existing

431
00:36:03,359 --> 00:36:12,160
tree line that runs right through here.
And and as I said this is just a rebuild

432
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:19,920
of basically the current system.
So, uh I I have asked for a waiver for

433
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:26,000
work in the uh 30-foot no disturb zone
and um since this is a voluntary effort

434
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:30,079
um and it is there's no expansion of
bedrooms or anything like that, I'm I'm

435
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:37,599
hopeful that the voluntary effort is
sufficient for mitigation for being in

436
00:36:33,359 --> 00:36:42,240
that zone. Um, I'm confident that when
the house was eventually sold or put on

437
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:47,280
the market, this sort of upgrade would
have been necessary. So, uh, the the

438
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:53,440
owner is taking that advanced step to
just, uh, take care of the the, uh, the

439
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:59,520
work now as opposed to when they're
under the gun. So, uh, that that's it.

440
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:04,079
If commission has any questions.
>> Thank you, Bill. Yeah, I'm inclined to

441
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:10,960
agree with you given that it's already
disturbed terrain that the impact is

442
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:15,640
going to be temporary, not permanent.
Um, questions or comments from the

443
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,640
commission?

444
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:27,440
Just maybe just a very very quick
overview of the imaginations or how the

445
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:32,640
waterl system works. It seems to recycle
>> uh a portion of the water of the effin

446
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,680
through the uh through the main septic
tank.

447
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:43,520
» That's right. Uh the the treatment train
is that you know the effluent leaves the

448
00:37:39,839 --> 00:37:49,839
house. It goes through the septic tank
and then is uh flows into the waterlue

449
00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:54,079
bofilter tank.
Half of that effluent is split and goes

450
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:59,040
out to the field and then half is
returned back to the septic tank for

451
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:03,839
which would pass again through the
waterlue bofilter. There's this

452
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:08,880
continuum 50% split going out to the
field and 50% going back to the the tank

453
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:14,160
for retreatment.
>> And then the mechanism within the BOF

454
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:16,560
filter itself is there a particular
fiber?

455
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:22,640
» Yes, there's there's like a sponge
medium. The tank is filled with uh

456
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:27,680
numerous small sponges which increase
surface area for beneficial bacteria to

457
00:38:25,359 --> 00:38:34,520
grow on and that's where the advanced
treatment is coming from.

458
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,520
» Thank you.

459
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:45,520
And uh just for our general information,
Bill, is this something that's used only

460
00:38:43,359 --> 00:38:49,920
in specialized settings or should we be
looking for more applications of it in

461
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:56,480
general use?
>> Uh when when they cannot uh achieve the

462
00:38:53,359 --> 00:39:01,760
setback to the wetlands horizontally, uh
that's when this application is is

463
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:08,240
utilized. It's expensive. So if folks
can be more than 100 ft away, it's not

464
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:12,720
necessary. Uh there's also some relief
vertically from the estimated seasonal

465
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,839
water table and that's where this was
applicable.

466
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,839
» I was just going to say we've seen it
previously where groundwater levels can

467
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:24,480
become very high.
>> Right.

468
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:30,320
» I think we've even seen it as an above
ground u installation.

469
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:35,119
Is there a special maintenance schedule
to this to this BOF filter or is it

470
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:41,359
similar to that of the uh maintenance of
the septic system?

471
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:46,192
» Um I I'm not a septic system expert so I
can't tell you what the maintenance

472
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:50,720
protocol is on the BOF filter. Um
[clears throat]

473
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:56,320
so but there is a deed restriction uh on
the deed that this is uh you know an

474
00:39:53,440 --> 00:40:01,200
advanced alternative system so any new
owners are aware that uh whatever the

475
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,200
maintenance protocol is they're aware of
it.

476
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:11,520
» Thank you.
>> Thank you Bill. Any questions or

477
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:15,640
comments from the public on
21 Eaglehead Road?

478
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:26,079
» I don't see any, Steve. I'm going to
move to close D 039095621

479
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:30,000
Eaglehead Road.
>> Second.

480
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:35,280
» Second.
>> Thank you, Arnold. All those in favor of

481
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:38,079
closing this hearing, Henry.
>> I. Gordon.

482
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,119
» Hi,
>> Marty.

483
00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:43,520
» I
>> Arnold.

484
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:47,359
» Hi,
>> Jim.

485
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:51,599
» Uh, I can't uh vote.
>> Yes, that's right. You're in a butter.

486
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:58,400
So, you will abstain and I will vote I.
So, it's five in favor, one abstension,

487
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,079
and the hearing is closed. Do we have a
draft of

488
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,599
» Yes.
>> conditions for this?

489
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:08,723
» Yes.
Boy, props to Bethany.

490
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,440
» Bethany is the greatest.
[laughter]

491
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:15,040
» Doesn't always happen, folks, that all
this work is done in advance. Sometimes

492
00:41:13,359 --> 00:41:22,800
we're scrambling around in venting
conditions on the fly.

493
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:29,640
» Um, hold on.
>> Don't let it go to your head now.

494
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,640
» I'll try not to.

495
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:53,280
I have a question regarding the soils
that will be removed. Uh I assume these

496
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:58,720
are considered to be contaminated soil.
what uh kind of where does that kind of

497
00:41:56,240 --> 00:42:05,359
material get moved to and what kind of
precautions do you have to put in place

498
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:09,520
during the uh removal of contaminated
soil?

499
00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:15,200
» Well, the these are not necessarily
hazardous soils uh but it will be a

500
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:24,000
combination of
um you know piping

501
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:29,839
uh crushed stone sand and the like. So,
uh I imagine um you know it's generally

502
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:35,760
taken back to the contractor's yard and
they they may uh segregate it uh put it

503
00:42:33,359 --> 00:42:41,520
through a a screener
and they might incorporate it into you

504
00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:44,520
know some other backfill.
>> Okay.

505
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:53,880
» All right. And what are the perpetual
conditions?

506
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,880
Okie dokie.

507
00:42:55,359 --> 00:43:00,359
» Boiler plate.
>> Mhm.

508
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:15,760
» These look fine to me. I I I just feel
that I'm not sure if there's we just

509
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:21,040
have to be ensure that the maintenance
of the system is there so it doesn't

510
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:25,040
if it breaks down does it create a worse
problem. So is there anything that we

511
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:28,560
need to add regarding the maintenance of
this particular system? So when it's

512
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:34,800
working it's going to be great. I think
it's going to really get that uh

513
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:39,520
effluent to a clear almost drinking
quality from what I'm researching and

514
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:43,520
read. But um but it has to be
>> first.

515
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:48,400
» Yeah.
Uh you're absolutely right and and it

516
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,560
given what Bill said, I assume it
wouldn't be a burden to put in a

517
00:43:50,079 --> 00:44:00,319
perpetual condition that the owner
maintain the facility

518
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:09,319
in accordance with uh its operation and
maintenance schedules and be ready to

519
00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:09,319
document that for any successor owners.

520
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,160
maintain

521
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:20,695
» operations and maintain
[laughter]

522
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:37,119
proper maintenance of facility and
>> the facility in accordance with the

523
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,200
manufacturer's instructions and make
documentation available to any successor

524
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,200
owners.

525
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:55,411
I can't type. I'm so sorry.
>> It's all right. The pressure would get

526
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:55,411
to me. [laughter]

527
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,240
» I will fix it.

528
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,160
» Mhm.

529
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:12,760
» I can't type in front of people. I'm so
sorry. I guess.

530
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:29,640
» Yeah, we'll clean up the spelling and
grammar, but you got it. I think

531
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,640
» I'm so sorry,

532
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:35,200
» Arnold. Does that sound right?
>> It does. Thank you.

533
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:40,880
» Good.
All right. Anything else for conditions?

534
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:46,960
And let's hear a motion to issue this
order with these conditions.

535
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:51,680
» I'll move to issue this order of
conditions for 039095621

536
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:56,000
Eaglehead Road.
>> Thank you. Second.

537
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:59,200
» Second.
>> Thank you, Marty. All those in favor?

538
00:45:58,319 --> 00:46:02,640
Henry.
>> I.

539
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:06,880
» Gordon. I.
>> Jim.

540
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:10,400
» Not voting.
Stand. Marty

541
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,520
» I
>> and Arnold

542
00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:20,000
» I
>> and I am an I as well. So it is passed

543
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:24,560
with five eyes and one abstension.
>> Terrific. Thank you very much.

544
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:30,480
» Yes. Thank you for good job as usual,
Bill. Um brings us to the fifth notice

545
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:36,119
of intent. This is a new one for 6
Highland Avenue D file 39-954.

546
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:43,760
The applicant is Cedar Hill Residential
LLC. The owner is 36 Broadway LLC and

547
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:47,760
the project consists of demolition of an
existing family single family dwelling,

548
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:52,800
construction of a new single family
dwelling on the existing residential lot

549
00:46:51,040 --> 00:47:00,440
uh portions of the property being
located within the 100 foot buffer zone

550
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,440
to ordering vegetated wetland.

551
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:05,920
» Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
>> Yes. Go ahead. Members of the

552
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:10,960
commission, thank you very much. Uh for
the record, John Jud, engineer with

553
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:15,839
Gateway Consultants representing uh the
applicant for this uh residential

554
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:20,720
project. I've just pulled up the aerial
just to give an overview. This is the

555
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:26,319
Landmark Elementary School here. Uh
Highland A is here. This is number six.

556
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:31,599
Uh and uh again, that's just the aerial.
Uh here's just some photos that we

557
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:38,480
submitted with the application existing
residential dwelling. And uh that's the

558
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:43,280
front and this is the re the rear.
So what I'd like to do is uh just sort

559
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:49,359
of go over the site plan if you will and
answer any questions. But uh essentially

560
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:53,680
uh the project entails the uh removal
and reconstruction of this existing

561
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:59,280
dwelling as shown on the plan. I'll
toggle out just a little bit more just

562
00:47:55,359 --> 00:48:05,760
to give an overview of uh where this uh
house is in existence uh in relationship

563
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:10,480
to the road. Uh also included with this
uh project, you can see the uh the

564
00:48:07,839 --> 00:48:15,680
proposed and existing house here is the
uh removal and reconstruction of the

565
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:20,000
existing septic system uh to be outside
of the buffer zone. So we have the

566
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:26,960
resource areas here and here and then we
have the uh 30 foot and 50 foot setbacks

567
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:32,400
here and then the 100 foot uh buffer is
right here. So we've done a soil testing

568
00:48:30,319 --> 00:48:37,119
with the uh the health agent. We do have
an approved plan for this system. Uh the

569
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:41,839
existing system by the way is in the
buffer zone back here. So that is going

570
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:49,200
to be removed in accordance with uh
title five. Uh and um to to answer your

571
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:54,640
question as far as septic uh removal is
not considered hazardous waste that was

572
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:58,559
determined by DP. Uh but what they
recommend that uh the contractor do is

573
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:03,920
expose it to the sun for a couple of
days and and that uh uh and then it can

574
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:09,440
be spread as Mr. Emanuel would point out
into other uh filled products. So uh

575
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:13,119
that would be removed and the new
state-of-the-art system would be placed

576
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:17,200
here. We have septic tank here, pump
chamber and then that would be pumped up

577
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:22,000
to the area where we found adequate
soils uh and again outside the buffer

578
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:26,079
zone. Uh the proposed erosion control
for the project is shown here. This

579
00:49:23,839 --> 00:49:31,119
would be a mulch sock that would be
extend all around the limit of work on

580
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:35,839
the property. And uh as part of this
project uh there's a uh within the

581
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:42,000
buffer zone there's a a net increase of
about 450 square ft of imperous area

582
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:48,079
that's proposed. As part of that the
applicant has agreed to do a one one uh

583
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:56,000
restoration of native planting here
closer to the resource area. uh then and

584
00:49:52,559 --> 00:50:00,559
also in addition uh um a a rain garden
to allow for the infiltration of the

585
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:05,839
house uh runoff which uh does not take
place at this time. So we have not only

586
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:11,119
the 100% mitigation of native planting
but we're also looking to do or will be

587
00:50:08,319 --> 00:50:15,920
installing I should say a a rain garden
and I can go over that if you'd like uh

588
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:20,400
as far as the detail is uh is included
on the plan.

589
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:24,480
Uh there is some ledge challenges on the
property uh throughout the property here

590
00:50:22,319 --> 00:50:29,200
outside the buffer zone. So you may you
may be asking or thinking why is that

591
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:35,200
hasn't that been explored but it's all
uh quite a bit of exposed rock uh where

592
00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:38,559
we did not find um we were able to find
the soil again outside the buff zone

593
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:44,800
here but for the most part this is all
exposed rock and uh so that's a brief

594
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:49,280
description. um the applicants here as
well if there's any uh other questions I

595
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,319
can't answer but uh that's my brief
presentation and you can answer any

596
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:59,640
questions you might have.
>> Great. Thank you, John. Uh questions or

597
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,640
comments from the commission

598
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:07,520
» for the mulch sock that's applied right
and it's properly marked uh in here. it

599
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:11,760
does that just go right over the ground
or is there some slight depression or

600
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:15,119
trenching that's done that's underneath
to ensure that the water doesn't run

601
00:51:13,119 --> 00:51:19,599
underneath? I guess I'm you know we
asking the commission what well what is

602
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:25,760
the plan currently does it just get laid
on the ground as is

603
00:51:23,359 --> 00:51:31,680
if I could Mr. chairman. Uh it's a 12-in
diameter sock that's filled with with

604
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:37,040
mulch and uh it's it's so heavy that it
just lays right on the surface and uh if

605
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:41,920
should there be any type of sediment
that might make its way down gradient uh

606
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:48,240
it will certainly hold that up. So it's
a very durable uh constru during the

607
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:52,760
construction period. Uh it uh it it
holds up against potential sediment.

608
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,839
question. Other questions or comments
from the commission?

609
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,359
» Yeah, this is Chuck Hen. I have a I
raise my hand. I don't know if I have to

610
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:08,319
wait.
>> Yeah, just hang on a second, Mr. Hoden,

611
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:14,400
and we'll get to you. Just one more on
the isolated vegetarian uh wetland is um

612
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:19,359
just because I'm kind of in a way kind
of coming up to speed, but that we have

613
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:23,680
the buffer zones delineated in here. Are
there any any additional zones that

614
00:52:21,416 --> 00:52:28,640
[clears throat] apply to isolated areas
uh in this case?

615
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:33,040
» I could again, Mr. Chairman. Uh so this
area here is isolated. This is not. So

616
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:40,000
there's a small area here and they're
actually uh separated. Uh so uh the

617
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:44,240
reason this is jurisdictional is because
it has a hydraulic connection. You can

618
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:50,400
see the subsurface pipe here. So that
makes this all protected. So there's no

619
00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:58,720
this actually is not protected but the
fact that it's separated uh by uh this

620
00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:02,960
isolated area here which is in fact BVW
by definition because of the hydraulic

621
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:09,440
connection. Uh that's why we included
these uh the 30 foot and 50 foot um

622
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:13,359
local uh setbacks.
>> Okay.

623
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:18,400
» And how how do you intend to access the
uh the septic? Are you going to do the

624
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:23,200
work? Are you going to access that area
in the where the field is?

625
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:28,079
» Where the field that would be done right
here through the the property uh off of

626
00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:32,000
Highland AV at this location.
>> And so you'll restore that access point

627
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,800
there too.
>> Absolutely. [clears throat]

628
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,800
Yes.

629
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,240
» And when does that become a private way?

630
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:51,839
» Well, our property line is here. So, uh,
typically in a private way, you you own

631
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:55,920
up to your frontage here, up to the, uh,
to the center line of the rightway. So,

632
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:59,440
you have access for to install
utilities. Of course, we're not doing

633
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:04,319
anything like that in the road, but you
have the ability to, uh, typically uh,

634
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:10,319
unless there's other deed restrictions
on the on the avenue, uh, but, uh, up to

635
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:14,720
the center line, uh, typically in a
private way. So, they have the right to

636
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:18,160
pass and repass as well as lay utilities
within the road, but they're not

637
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:23,440
planning on doing that. This is simply
for access to uh install the leech

638
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:26,240
field.
>> Got it. Anything else from the

639
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:32,079
commission?
>> So, this particular system seems to flow

640
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:37,920
it flows is a forced flow to the leash
field, I believe.

641
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:42,319
» Yeah. So, we have a tank pump chamber up
here and then it goes to it's

642
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:49,119
pressurized up to a distribution box and
then it's dist distributed by gravity uh

643
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:53,760
down each trench outside the buffer
>> and if the pump goes what would happen

644
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:58,319
over down at the tanks would would there
be an overflow?

645
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:03,680
» So, the way it's designed is uh there's
24-hour storage above the working level.

646
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:09,920
So within this subsurface chamber you
have uh a series of floats and one of

647
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:15,200
the floats is uh the operation of the
pump itself and then as the uh the and

648
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:21,520
these are on separate circuits in the on
the panel. So you would have a uh a high

649
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:27,920
water alarm go off and above that you
have 24-hour storage in this case 440

650
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:31,520
gallons. Uh so there's there's quite a
bit and and remember if there's no power

651
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,760
in the house the dishwasher is not
working. There's no hot water uh

652
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:40,319
typically. So you you really it's very
conservative is my point. Uh 440 gallons

653
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:45,200
is and usually you're not out for that
long and uh should they decide to put in

654
00:55:43,359 --> 00:55:49,440
a generator then that will not be an
issue.

655
00:55:46,319 --> 00:55:53,280
» Thank you.
>> Question

656
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:58,720
Mr. Hton,
unmute yourself and let's hear you.

657
00:55:56,799 --> 00:56:02,640
» Hey, I think Yeah, this is Chuck Hton,
Oxatchy Road. I had a couple questions

658
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:06,960
about the septic system and a couple
other comments. Um, I think I read on

659
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:11,680
the drawing that there was a 6-in swale
or ditch around that septic system. And

660
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:15,520
that doesn't sound like much of a
drainage ditch. It seems like it would

661
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:19,520
fill up the first year with leaves. And
I'm not sure if that's going to be

662
00:56:16,799 --> 00:56:24,319
adequate. So, I was wondering if you
know you might be able to make that

663
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:28,799
bigger. That was the first question. And
I don't know if this this is the right

664
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:34,640
place to be asking, but the loop vent,
there's a large loop vent on the on the

665
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:38,559
corner. And loop fence are big white PVC
pipe that are pretty ugly. And I was

666
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:44,400
wondering if it's possible to move that
to the back end of the septic field, the

667
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:47,680
uh southern end, and maybe painted a
color that would blend in so it doesn't

668
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:50,680
catch your eye every time you drive by.
It

669
00:56:51,200 --> 00:57:01,119
painted a gray or something. Kind of a
kind of attracts the eye. Um that's the

670
00:56:58,079 --> 00:57:07,280
other comment. And my last comment is
that looking at I disagree with some of

671
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:12,240
the comments about the access um two of
the surveys show that are on the

672
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:18,559
application show that Highland A curves
into our property Ox pasture and that's

673
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:23,040
incorrect. Uh Highland A stops at the
corner

674
00:57:20,079 --> 00:57:27,920
uh on this on this map where it says
Avenue where the E is it's somewhere

675
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:33,920
around in that area. Everything past
that is a private piece of property.

676
00:57:31,839 --> 00:57:38,440
So, I just want to point out that that's
incorrect on the maps.

677
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:48,480
» You agree that the U property owner
would have access to the midpoint of a

678
00:57:47,359 --> 00:57:52,280
private road?
>> No, I don't think so.

679
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:58,400
Is there a private parcel of land?
What then would govern

680
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:01,400
» they could just come across our
property?

681
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:10,880
» Well, so we
>> am my understanding your concern is not

682
00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:18,319
if they were to cross from to the left
of the drawing before the E and Avenue

683
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:22,720
to access it that would be acceptable in
your opinion. But the to the right of

684
00:58:20,799 --> 00:58:26,720
the E is is your property. Is that what
you're

685
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:30,160
» correctating? Correct. So I don't That's
a pretty steep slope right there.

686
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:33,760
There's a pretty big piece of ledge
right there.

687
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:36,240
» I don't think that's a conservation
commission matter at this time outside

688
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,839
of the [clears throat]
>> No, it really isn't

689
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:44,000
» jurisdiction. Let's Let's move on.
>> Let's move on from Mr.

690
00:58:41,839 --> 00:58:47,520
» Bethany, would you be able to unmute
Arthur Steiner? He's using the chat, but

691
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,960
I'd prefer to hear.
>> Sorry.

692
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,880
» It's okay. He hasn't raised his hand,
but

693
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:57,760
» No, I know, but he's been in the chat
and I think he would like to speak.

694
00:58:55,359 --> 00:59:01,799
» Okay, I'm clicking him.
>> Henry,

695
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:01,799
» click him away.

696
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:10,880
» Yeah, this is Steiner at 9 Highland
Avenue. I just echoing what um Mr. Hton

697
00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:15,440
was saying that
uh

698
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:19,599
that town uh town road ends right around
where the E is or thereabout.

699
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:23,119
And I I I I disagree with the
commission. I think if you're approving

700
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:28,119
septics, you should be factoring in how
these things are being made if you're

701
00:59:24,799 --> 00:59:28,119
approving them.

702
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:38,319
» Well, on behalf of the commission, I at
least I I think I agree with you, but I

703
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:44,880
was given to understand that it was a
private road with some common ownership

704
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:48,799
of the abutters. Is that not the case?
>> I can't speak. It would be determined by

705
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:52,799
this property owner, the proposed
property owner's deed as to whether or

706
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,480
not they're entitled to
>> correct. As Henry said, that's outside

707
00:59:55,359 --> 00:59:59,760
our remit.
>> Yeah. You know, that I agree with that

708
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:03,760
part. But I I think I I would just find
it surprising that that a subject is

709
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,160
approved. If there is uncertainty as to
how this thing is being accessed, if

710
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:10,480
they're accessing it through the
property, that's perfectly their right.

711
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:16,720
There's no dispute about that one. But
the assumption that they have access to

712
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:23,040
Ox Pasture or to the port portion of
Highland Avenue above the north of the

713
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:27,040
letter E is is right now a false
assumption.

714
01:00:25,359 --> 01:00:31,760
» All right, let's move past the access,
please. Yes, I think the the color of

715
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:38,000
the outlet pipe is also outside our
jurisdiction but the uh

716
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:42,799
» well the question of uh location of it
um

717
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:46,319
» I guess on one of the comments about the
dimensions and effectiveness of the

718
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:52,400
swale surrounding the septic system
right which seems to be for uh any any I

719
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:59,839
guess water that may be running down uh
any embbackment that may saturate the

720
01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:03,680
septic system Was was the swale
uh was the swale design within

721
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:10,640
regulation? I suppose uh in this
approved system or in the in this system

722
01:01:06,799 --> 01:01:15,680
does it so that
because I could see if it's if the leash

723
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:20,640
field is oversaturated then right we can
then start having issues with the uh

724
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:26,240
with the protected areas. So I guess the
key question is not really knowing what

725
01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:30,079
dimensions are appropriate or not is do
we have a an appropriate design of the

726
01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:33,240
septic area including the dimensions of
the swale

727
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:38,880
» if I may Mr. Chairman.
>> Yes go ahead John.

728
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:42,640
» Okay so uh the detail that we have for
the swale is back here. So this is this

729
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:47,599
infiltration. We're not showing anything
up here as far as depth on a swale. Uh

730
01:01:45,359 --> 01:01:51,440
and it's there is there is no 6-in swale
back here. We are indicating that the

731
01:01:49,839 --> 01:01:55,359
water is going to be going away. We have
a high point here in the swale and then

732
01:01:53,599 --> 01:02:00,000
you can see the arrow coming out over
here and then along this property. Um,

733
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:03,520
so the rain garden that's over here,
this infiltration swell rather is back

734
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:07,440
here. So I'm not sure what the
gentleman's talking about uh as far as

735
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:12,079
that depth. Uh, we have no problem
painting the uh the vent. That's that's

736
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:16,240
no problem as a courtesy to the
neighbors. Uh, and I don't disagree with

737
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:22,240
that. There are some other techniques
too to sort of um um sort of disguise

738
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:26,799
the the vent. There are different
products up there to make it more

739
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:31,359
palatable. Uh but uh you know as far as
as far as the color, I'm sure the

740
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:35,440
applicant would be happy to do that. Uh
again, all this is outside the buffer

741
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:39,440
zone here. So there's really uh and as
far as the access, if you have frontage

742
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:44,240
up to a right away, you have you have
access to that right away. So again,

743
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:48,799
that's outside of this board's um
discussion in my opinion, but uh I'm

744
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:54,240
sure the applicant would be happy to
talk to Mr. Hoden and Mr. Steiner uh as

745
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:58,480
a friendly neighborhood conversation and
uh and if there's any legal aspect to

746
01:02:56,319 --> 01:03:02,559
that, they can they can uh get some
opinion on that. But uh um that's really

747
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:09,040
the
>> Thank you, Mr. Really say about that. Um

748
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:12,160
yeah. So as far as over here, this is
the shallow infiltration swale I think

749
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:17,520
the gentleman was talking about because
that's where we showed the uh the detail

750
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:22,880
um of 6 in deep back here.
>> Mr. Jud, is the is the swale over by the

751
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:27,200
benchmark one? It shows swailes around
the edge of the uh septic system. That's

752
01:03:25,839 --> 01:03:32,319
the one that's what I was thinking about
that that I thought I saw that that was

753
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:35,359
six only six inches deep. Am I correct?
detail.

754
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:40,240
» Yeah, the details over here for this one
here, we are showing that there is some

755
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:43,200
allow for that water to to pass on the
other side of the wall. There's a stone

756
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:47,200
wall here now and then there's a
proposed retaining wall. So, I think

757
01:03:45,119 --> 01:03:50,720
that's what Mr. Hoden's talking about,
but uh we I don't believe we spec any

758
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,520
kind of a
>> Okay.

759
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:57,760
» a depth on that.
>> All right. I see also a hand from Corey

760
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:02,200
Finanella.
Would you unmute and identify yourself?

761
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,799
Can you help with that?

762
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:20,079
» Uh, hello. I'm sorry. I accidentally hit
the raised hand. I

763
01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:26,000
» always forgive. Not to worry.
>> I apologize. Sorry about that.

764
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:29,400
» Any other comment or question from the
public on

765
01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:34,359
island.

766
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:41,720
I'm seeing none.

767
01:04:41,839 --> 01:04:53,079
So, um, is this a a site the commission
would like to visit in person or are we

768
01:04:49,119 --> 01:04:53,079
ready to close this hearing?

769
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:59,839
» Leaning toward closing. I prepare to
close.

770
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:05,280
All right, let's have a motion.
>> All right, I'll move that to close the

771
01:05:01,839 --> 01:05:08,880
hearing on 03909546
Highland F.

772
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:12,720
» I'll second.
>> Good. All those in favor? Arnold

773
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,119
» I.
>> Jim.

774
01:05:13,839 --> 01:05:18,400
» Hi.
>> Gordon.

775
01:05:17,119 --> 01:05:22,960
» Hi.
>> Marty. Hi.

776
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,720
» Henry.
>> Hi.

777
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:29,440
And
>> I am an I as well.

778
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:34,640
So it is unanimous.
Let's move to conditions for this repair

779
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:38,440
septic system.
>> A second please

780
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,520
share.

781
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:51,920
You
>> Steve, this is more than just a septic

782
01:05:50,079 --> 01:05:56,880
though, right? This is a
>> Yeah, it's a house. It's more than Yes,

783
01:05:54,319 --> 01:06:03,960
it's a demolition and rebuild. Slightly
different footprint with an expanded

784
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:03,960
impervious. Good catch.

785
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:33,680
Do we need any more detail about
handling of the

786
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:39,400
um demo and abandonment of the existing
system such as we had on the Eaglehead

787
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:48,160
or does that 310 CMR cover it?

788
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:57,039
I feel like it covers, but I can add
like I can borrow the language from 21.

789
01:06:54,799 --> 01:07:02,880
» Yeah, no harm.
That was essentially saying that the

790
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:06,359
material that's uh removed will be taken
off site daily.

791
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:26,480
Shall we take a look at the perpetual
conditions?

792
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:29,359
» Yeah, just give me a second, please.
>> Mhm.

793
01:07:27,359 --> 01:07:30,480
» Can you see the screen still?
>> Yes.

794
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:36,480
» Mhm.
>> Okay. I added the language.

795
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,480
» Okay. Thank you.

796
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:45,240
Nothing crazy about it. You guys can
always

797
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,240
add to things

798
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:58,039
seems to end abruptly,
>> right?

799
01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:05,680
» Shall be stored outside the buffer zone
resource area and buffer zone.

800
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,680
Thank you.

801
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:30,000
Which includes, of course, lawnmowers
and tractors with gasoline and

802
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:33,000
lubricants in them.
>> Good.

803
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:40,640
Um,
in the aerial photos of the property

804
01:08:38,719 --> 01:08:46,480
that were submitted as part of the
notice of intent, it looks like there's

805
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:54,920
a car parked back in the buffer zone and
things like that. Um, do we want to ask

806
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:54,920
for any monumenting of the buffers and

807
01:08:55,440 --> 01:09:02,319
maybe start with removal of removal of
>> I did not see a car when I was there, so

808
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:05,839
maybe it was already
>> it. It Yeah, I have no idea if that's

809
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:11,759
» might be done. Yeah, probably the
previous owners or whatever, but um,

810
01:09:09,839 --> 01:09:22,359
» sure, [clears throat] that's a a good
idea. So, a a permanent

811
01:09:15,679 --> 01:09:22,359
monument or several to mark the uh

812
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:28,960
» should that be perpetual special? What
do we think?

813
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:33,040
» Yeah, it's a perpetual
>> perpetual.

814
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:37,359
» Okay.
>> And maybe we should have an explicit one

815
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:42,560
just about no no parking of vehicles or
or no parking or storage of vehicles in

816
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:46,880
the buffer zones.
That that would be a good one to stay

817
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:49,279
with us for forever [laughter]
>> for most. Yeah. For our boiler plates,

818
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,279
right?
>> Yes.

819
01:09:49,839 --> 01:09:54,159
» No.
>> Better said, Gordon. Thank you.

820
01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:57,120
» Okay.
>> I can't.

821
01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:00,080
» No parking or
>> someone's raising their hand.

822
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,280
» Yeah.
>> Um

823
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:11,760
» right now we're we're out of the public
comment time. Scott,

824
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:18,120
» storage of motor vehicles.
and the buffer zones and resource. Oh,

825
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,120
sorry.

826
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:47,560
Bethany, I think for 36 or equipment
containing said materials shall be

827
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:47,560
stored outside the resource area.

828
01:10:51,600 --> 01:11:00,880
» Perfect. Thank you.
>> Anything else? We have the usual no

829
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:07,239
alteration without notice and permission
from noncom.

830
01:11:04,239 --> 01:11:07,239
Actually,

831
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:12,719
» I don't see it. Hold on. I'll add it
real quick.

832
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:16,600
» Thank you.
>> Sometimes they get lost.

833
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:35,280
» House currently being lived in. Well,
how do you

834
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:41,280
you what's the order of the process of
putting in a new septic system while the

835
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:46,880
old one is still being used
or is that not relevant here?

836
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,840
» I believe they're demolishing the house
as well.

837
01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:55,560
» Yeah, there's no one living there now.
>> It's like abandoned it looked like when

838
01:11:52,159 --> 01:11:55,560
I went there.

839
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:07,040
Okay.
>> All right. I'll move that we accept the

840
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:14,440
order of conditions as written for 6
Island Avenue D390954.

841
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,440
» Thank you. Second.

842
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:19,440
» I second.
>> Thank you, Arnold. All those in favor?

843
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,679
Jim.
>> I.

844
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:25,520
» Gordon.
>> I.

845
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:28,400
» Marty. I
>> Arnold

846
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:30,719
» I
>> Henry

847
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:34,880
» I
>> and I'll make that unanimous. Six

848
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:37,920
eyes's.
Thank you very much.

849
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:41,520
» Thank you very much. Have a good night.
>> And thank you neighbors. Good luck

850
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:45,199
working out all those little fine
details.

851
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:49,520
» We Yeah, we'll we'll be cooperative.
Thank you.

852
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:54,400
» Thank you.
Which brings us to our uh abbreviated

853
01:12:51,679 --> 01:13:00,400
notice of resource area delineation
known in the trade as an ANRAD.

854
01:12:57,199 --> 01:13:05,520
This is D file 39-955
for zero Pine Street, Manchester. The

855
01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:10,400
applicant is Jefferson Apartment Group
Northeast Development Company LLC and

856
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:14,640
the property owner is Gordon College.
And as I said before, this is to confirm

857
01:13:12,719 --> 01:13:18,719
the limit and regulatory status of
wetland resource areas on a portion of

858
01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:24,480
the property
uh owned by Gordon College.

859
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,600
So, who's here tonight on behalf of
this?

860
01:13:25,199 --> 01:13:28,719
» Hi,
>> Lauren.

861
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:34,239
» Thank you so much, chair. Thank the
commission for hearing um this agenda

862
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:38,800
item tonight. We are following up on an
initial presentation that we made to the

863
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:43,360
commission on July 21st where we were
introducing the proposed Pine Street

864
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:48,159
project and we're following on with the
actual anid application which came in

865
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:51,600
about a week or so after that. We've
been working very closely with our

866
01:13:49,679 --> 01:13:57,120
wetland scientist team at Beals and
Thomas and I will be turning over the

867
01:13:54,719 --> 01:14:01,040
presentation to my colleague at Beals
Stacy Minahan for her overview of the

868
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:06,320
application.
>> Sure. Thanks, Lauren. Uh, thank you,

869
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:11,840
commissioners. Um, will I be able to
share my screen?

870
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:16,440
I thought I would have some
>> be able to

871
01:14:12,719 --> 01:14:16,440
» up. Let's see.

872
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:23,360
All right. So, let me know. Of course,
that now moved everything around my

873
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:26,560
screen, but can you see the uh
>> locus map that I have up? Okay,

874
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,600
» you see the locus map now? Yes.
>> Okay, perfect. So, just to give a little

875
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:34,000
bit of orientation, I know the
commission's familiar, but this is just

876
01:14:31,679 --> 01:14:37,679
an overall locus of the kind of entire
property on this side of Pine Street,

877
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:43,199
which runs here. Obviously, you can see
how close it is to the other

878
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:48,960
communities. Um, and we are requesting
confirmation of wetlands on just a

879
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:52,880
portion of this property outlined in
red. So, this comprises two parcels.

880
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:59,760
We're asking for confirmation of a
portion of each of those parcels. Uh so

881
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:05,199
for more context here is the aerial. So
again this is the general vicinity that

882
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:10,159
we are requesting confirmation for.
We're looking to confirm the limits as

883
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:13,520
delineated of the wetland resource areas
as well as the regulatory status of the

884
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:16,800
wetland resource areas and I'll get into
that a little bit later in my

885
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:24,000
presentation. So the area that we're
looking at is about 25 acres across the

886
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:28,000
two parcels. I will pull up the ANRAD
plan itself and we can zoom around as

887
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:33,040
needed.
Let me know if you'd like anything

888
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:37,920
larger. Um, so
the resource areas on this site were

889
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:44,480
actually originally fully delineated in
the recent past by another firm. Uh,

890
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:48,960
Beiels and Thomas was then engaged to
uh, take ownership of the wetland

891
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:55,040
delineation. And so we went into the
field, reviewed and refreshed all of the

892
01:15:51,920 --> 01:16:00,320
flagging, made revisions as we saw fit.
Um, and we did have a few changes here

893
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:04,800
and there for the delineation and then
are submitting this abbreviated notice

894
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:10,159
of resource area delineation. So the the
wetlands on the site have been subject

895
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:16,000
to some extensive field review. So there
are three types of resource areas uh

896
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:20,880
that we're looking for confirmation and
a fourth that we may seek which I'll

897
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:23,840
speak to when I talk about D comments.
So we are looking to confirm the

898
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:29,840
boundaries of bordering vegetated
wetland which is shown in this green

899
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:35,760
area here. So there's a BBW system that
kind of wraps around.

900
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:41,040
We are also seeking confirmation of five
isolated vegetative wetlands. So, there

901
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:50,239
are two on this portion of the property,
two over here, and then one in the rear.

902
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:53,840
Four of those five IVWs, these four
towards the front of the property, are

903
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:59,360
non-jurisdictional under the bylaw
because they don't meet the 5,000 ft

904
01:16:56,159 --> 01:17:04,560
size requirement. The IVW at the rear of
the property is just over that 5,000 ft

905
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:08,719
requirement. That is also one of the
three certified vernal pools that we're

906
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:13,679
looking to confirm. That boundary here
is coincident with the isolated wetland

907
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:18,640
as well.
The three CBPs, the one I mentioned

908
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:22,640
already, and then there's another in
this portion of the project site and

909
01:17:20,719 --> 01:17:28,159
we've delineated the limits of that
vernal pool within the wetland. And

910
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:32,080
there is another zoom in a little bit.
Yep. another on this portion of the

911
01:17:30,159 --> 01:17:36,920
property and we've delineated those uh
ground pool limits as well.

912
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:45,040
So the study area is outlined in this
blue color.

913
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:51,040
So there are other wetlands elsewhere on
the property. However, they do not

914
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:55,040
project a 100 foot buffer zone into this
area of interest. And so what we're

915
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:58,719
asking the commission to confirm is what
we've delineated in this area and then

916
01:17:56,719 --> 01:18:04,159
also that there's nothing else that
would constrain this area that's

917
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:09,520
outlined in blue.
We did for the commission's information

918
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:14,239
request a waiver from section 1.6.11
which required side views of all natural

919
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:18,080
and man-made drainage structures,
waterways, and wetlands. I think that

920
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:22,000
may have been intended more for when
work is proposed. I'm not sure. um but

921
01:18:20,719 --> 01:18:26,000
it didn't seem appropriate for the
ANRAD. Uh there is topography shown on

922
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:31,280
the plan obviously, but I did want to
call that to the commission's attention.

923
01:18:29,199 --> 01:18:36,239
So with that, the last thing I wanted to
touch on is the D comments. We do have a

924
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:40,960
file number. Uh they did have two
comments, a recommendation to consider

925
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:46,480
evaluating the isolated wetlands for
isolated lands subject to flooding. The

926
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:51,920
project team is considering that. Uh, as
I'm sure the commission is aware, that

927
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:56,320
will only come into play if there could
potentially be an impact on an isolated

928
01:18:54,239 --> 01:19:03,040
wetland in the future. Otherwise, it
doesn't matter whether it's ILSF or not.

929
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:07,760
Um, but we are considering that and I
anticipate may be submitting engineering

930
01:19:05,679 --> 01:19:10,960
calculations to document whether or not
any of the isolated wetlands also

931
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:15,760
function as isolated lands subject to
flooding.

932
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:20,239
DP also um had commented about kind of
the isolated nature of some of the

933
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:23,840
wetlands. I do have our field
representative Andrew Borman with me if

934
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:28,800
there are any questions about it, but we
had undertaken a very detailed review.

935
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:32,000
Se several of the wet isolated wetlands
that we delineated had not been

936
01:19:30,719 --> 01:19:36,719
identified by the prior wetland
delineator. Um in some cases there are

937
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:41,600
berms separating the isolated wetland
from the other vegetated wetlands or

938
01:19:39,679 --> 01:19:45,280
from other isolated wetlands. Um, so
we're, you know, pretty confident that

939
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:49,760
they are indeed isolated vegetated
wetlands. And so that's my presentation.

940
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:55,679
I'm happy to answer questions. I think
one two other things that we likely

941
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:58,719
should discuss tonight are um whether
the commission is going to be

942
01:19:56,719 --> 01:20:03,280
undertaking a site visit and if so, if
we can schedule that.

943
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:07,199
Thank you.
>> Questions or comments from the

944
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:14,560
commission? Jim?
>> Yeah. Um, so you cited uh, Lauren, that

945
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:19,920
the property's been delineated
many times, a lot of work been done, but

946
01:20:17,199 --> 01:20:24,159
I noticed that the, you know, the site
visits are the middle of July, which

947
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:29,760
seem like a pretty
dry time of year. And so if if one were

948
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:36,480
to do this study in March, would would
more of these sites have qualified by

949
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:42,880
the minimum uh square footage or is this
a standard uh process by which uh you

950
01:20:41,199 --> 01:20:47,199
know that it's not a seasonal type
delineation process? I mean could you go

951
01:20:45,199 --> 01:20:51,840
into that methodology a little bit?
>> Sure, that's a great question. Um and

952
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:57,360
the short answer is no. the time of year
would not affect the delineation of the

953
01:20:53,760 --> 01:21:03,120
isolated wetlands larger or smaller. So
wetlands are delineated by uh soil and

954
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:08,719
vegetative parameters. And so it doesn't
matter whether there's inundation or

955
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:14,640
lack of inundation to delineate the
wetlands. Um if you are in a drought,

956
01:21:11,679 --> 01:21:18,880
you're not relying on only hydraologic
indicators. You're looking at the soils.

957
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:23,040
And on this site where it's undisturbed,
um you'd be readily able to see whether

958
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:27,920
the soils were upland or wetland soil
indicators. And then you also look at

959
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:34,080
the vegetation. I will say vegetation in
a non-wooded site can change a little

960
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:37,679
bit in a extended drought versus non and
even in a wooded site. I have seen it

961
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:42,560
happen before, but it wouldn't be enough
to change the delineation

962
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:48,440
um in all likelihood.
>> Good. Thanks.

963
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:48,440
» Yep. What other questions?

964
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:55,360
» Did I understand correctly, there is
only a single vernal pool?

965
01:21:53,440 --> 01:21:58,000
» There are three certified vernal pools
on the property.

966
01:21:56,639 --> 01:22:00,880
» Okay, that's what I thought earlier.
Okay.

967
01:21:58,239 --> 01:22:06,320
» Yep. Okay. So in the in terms of the our
area of interest, the 25 acres that

968
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:14,159
we're looking at, there is one to the
northwest kind of the central rear and

969
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:19,280
the uh east southeast kind of all in
that rear of the area of interest that

970
01:22:16,239 --> 01:22:28,159
we have.
>> And um Stacy, are there any um potential

971
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:34,600
vernal pools on those 25 acres? Not not
that we've observed on this 25 acre

972
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,600
site.

973
01:22:36,480 --> 01:22:42,760
» How about any uh streams intermittent or
perennial?

974
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:49,120
» So for that I might ask Andrew to
unmute. I'm of the understanding that

975
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:52,480
there are some intermittent streams
within the border and vegetated wetland

976
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:56,719
system. I don't know if there's anything
notable Andrew to indicate.

977
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:59,920
» Yep. Uh thank you Mr. Chairman. Andrew
Gorman from Bills and Thomas. There are

978
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:04,960
some intermittent streams that are
contained within the bordering vegetated

979
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:09,600
wetlands. For example, if we pan Stacy,
if you zoom into the far east, um you

980
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:14,639
see how there's that linear swale
feature um

981
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:18,560
where the J and B series sort of collide
towards that certified vernal pool.

982
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:23,520
» There's a little bit of an intermittent
stream in in the the swale channel

983
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:27,280
there. So um it's pretty common in large
bordering vegetative wetlands to have

984
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:32,080
braided channels like that with the
topography. So we didn't observe any

985
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:37,960
exterior of the bordering vegetated
wetlands.

986
01:23:34,239 --> 01:23:37,960
Good question. Thank you

987
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:48,800
» Steve. Is this a case where we should
discuss amongst commissioners

988
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:53,600
uh having a peer review done for this an
>> I believe it is. um

989
01:23:51,280 --> 01:24:00,679
» following our custom with projects of
this scale and

990
01:23:56,480 --> 01:24:00,679
» wetlands of this scope.

991
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:08,400
So um
I I would feel uh much more comfortable

992
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:12,960
proceeding with a independent peer
review

993
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:18,800
uh advising us.
How do other commissioners feel?

994
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:23,520
» Agreed. I would agree.
>> Yeah.

995
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:28,080
I feel the same way.
>> So one one next step we need to take

996
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:31,040
Bethany, do we need to authorize you to
uh

997
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:35,280
» Yes. So that
>> you have to vote

998
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:40,560
» that you wish to engage a peer review
and so I can start diligently searching

999
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:47,360
for them.
>> Okay. Hopefully it'll be more uh it'll

1000
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:54,639
be easier than uh than the last time.
I'll make a motion in that case to um

1001
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:59,760
begin the process of finding a peer
reviewer for this ANRAD mass D is

1002
01:24:57,440 --> 01:25:04,639
03909550
Pine Street.

1003
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:09,360
» Is there a second?
>> I'll second that.

1004
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:14,800
» Thank you, Marty. All those in favor?
Marty I.

1005
01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:17,440
Um, Gordon,
>> hi

1006
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:20,320
» Jim.
>> Hi,

1007
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:23,360
» Arnold.
>> Hi,

1008
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:27,280
» Henry.
>> Hi.

1009
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:30,880
» And I'll make that unanimous.
That doesn't conclude our business.

1010
01:25:28,719 --> 01:25:35,360
Let's just uh keep going. We need to
hear public comment on this as well. But

1011
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:38,679
first, any last questions or comments
from the commission?

1012
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:47,120
And just one final uh question for our
side. Um with the peer review, do you

1013
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:50,639
anticipate that the commission will also
want to conduct its own site visit or

1014
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:57,600
will that be sort of encompassed within
the peer review process?

1015
01:25:53,920 --> 01:26:01,600
» Generally, we we uh coordinate with the
peer reviewer and with you, of course,

1016
01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:04,400
to to uh
>> make it a single event.

1017
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:08,719
» Okay, got it. Yeah,
>> of course. If we if we need to, we'll

1018
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:13,840
ask you for another, you know, more
detailed walker or inspection.

1019
01:26:12,239 --> 01:26:19,120
» Oh, thank you.
>> Yeah.

1020
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:25,520
All right. From the public, I see uh
Corey Finanella has a hand up. Is this

1021
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:28,560
this time uh you actually have a
question or comment?

1022
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:35,679
» Yes, this time I I do have it. Thank
you, uh Mr. uh co-chairman. Um my name

1023
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:42,400
is Cory Ferinella. Uh I uh uh reside in
Beverly. I am also a member of the

1024
01:26:38,719 --> 01:26:48,639
Beverly zoning committee. Um so I'm very
familiar with this uh plot of land uh

1025
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:55,600
we're discussing. So one first question
uh what is the peer review you're

1026
01:26:51,679 --> 01:27:00,239
requesting to to just to verify
this these findings that we were just

1027
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:05,120
shown? Is that is that my that's my
understanding? Is that correct?

1028
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:11,120
Yes, that's essentially correct. We will
probably pose some some uh additional

1029
01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:17,440
questions about aspects that may not
have been recognized such as potential

1030
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:21,520
vernal pools. Yeah, my main concern
um

1031
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:28,080
» is just the you know the mention of the
three vernal pools. Um I'm I'm

1032
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:32,480
you know I maybe it's not pertinent but
I do believe there is more than three

1033
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:39,920
vernal pools in that plot of land that
was uh shown earlier. Um I I can point

1034
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:46,080
them out if there is a site visit.
Well, if if the applicant is open to

1035
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:50,960
having um outsiders along on the visit,
uh we'll welcome that. Thank you. Uh

1036
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:55,840
wait, let's wait and see how that
emerges when we have the peer reviewer

1037
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:59,840
selected and on board and schedule a
site visit.

1038
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:03,679
» Okay, thank you. That that's my uh my
only concern is the

1039
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:12,000
» well and it's pertinent to say for those
who don't know that under the home rule

1040
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:16,960
uh provisions our bylaws offer um more
protection to vernal pools than the

1041
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:22,320
state offers under the wetlands
protection act and specifically we offer

1042
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:27,120
protection to to what are called
potential vernal pools meaning they

1043
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:34,080
haven't been certified yet but uh if
they are shown to function function in

1044
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:40,080
terms of habitat as a vernal pool should
then we protect them as a resource area

1045
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:44,000
with a buffer zone. So it is a pertinent
question. Anybody else in the public

1046
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:48,760
have a comment or question on the
wetlands delineation or identification?

1047
01:28:52,239 --> 01:28:58,880
Hope I didn't intimidate everybody by
making it that specific, but that's what

1048
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:03,199
that's what we're here for tonight.
>> It is. But seeing none, Steve, I'm going

1049
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:08,480
to
move to continue.

1050
01:29:05,440 --> 01:29:13,280
» Thank you to September 22.
>> To September 22, 03909550

1051
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:18,000
Pine Street.
>> Is there a second?

1052
01:29:16,239 --> 01:29:22,719
» I'll second.
>> Thank you. All those in favor? Jim.

1053
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:25,440
» Hi,
>> Gordon.

1054
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:28,159
» Hi,
>> Marty.

1055
01:29:26,480 --> 01:29:30,960
» I,
>> Arnold,

1056
01:29:29,199 --> 01:29:33,280
» I,
>> Henry,

1057
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:40,880
» I.
>> And I'll make that unanimous. Six eyes's

1058
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:45,800
with many thanks to Stacy and Lauren.
And, uh, look forward to working with

1059
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:45,800
you.

1060
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:56,320
And that brings us to the close of our
public hearing with thanks to all of our

1061
01:29:54,400 --> 01:30:02,639
neighbors who attended including
neighbors from Beverly and Hamilton and

1062
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:07,120
all the other jurisdictions.
Uh we have to review some minutes. We

1063
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:14,800
have some uh new and old business
enforcement issues to go over. Let's u

1064
01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:19,880
start with the minutes of August 11.
Are there any corrections or additions?

1065
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:31,880
Can I hear a motion to accept them?
>> So moved.

1066
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:31,880
» Thank you. Second.

1067
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:38,239
» Second.
>> Thank you, Marty. All those in favor?

1068
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:42,239
Arnold.
>> Hi.

1069
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:45,280
» Gordon.
I

1070
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:47,360
» Henry
>> I

1071
01:30:46,719 --> 01:30:49,760
» Jim
>> Hi

1072
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:54,159
» Marty
>> I

1073
01:30:50,960 --> 01:31:00,000
» and I am an I as well.
>> All right. Under uh new and old and

1074
01:30:56,719 --> 01:31:05,600
other business. Uh we have first an
update on the

1075
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:13,120
situation with the paving of some of the
parking lot at Harbor's Point.

1076
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:19,360
Um Bethany has provided us all the uh
the D comments on this issue which are

1077
01:31:16,639 --> 01:31:26,639
kind of unequivocal that
uh some kind of notice and permit is

1078
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:32,159
required for this kind of work within
resource area.

1079
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:37,880
Um,
anybody on the mission have a comment or

1080
01:31:34,159 --> 01:31:37,880
question about that?

1081
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:48,080
Based on that, Bethany has recommended
we ask for an after the-act RDA.

1082
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:55,920
Um, Bethany, would you like to give us
an explanation why an RDA and not a

1083
01:31:51,120 --> 01:32:03,199
notice of intent? Um because I've asked
I called different um conservation

1084
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:09,040
agents regarding just like hypotheticals
of like what I should do next around the

1085
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:14,400
Northshore area including one um in
Toppsfield in the such and they

1086
01:32:11,679 --> 01:32:21,600
recommended that an RDA would suffice
for this project

1087
01:32:18,239 --> 01:32:29,600
or an after the fact as one would stand.
And why did they recommend that?

1088
01:32:25,199 --> 01:32:35,040
» Um because it is a well in theory to
like other notice of intents it is a

1089
01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:40,880
smaller surface area and it was already
in degraded area disturbed area. It

1090
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:44,639
wasn't like
it wasn't a vegetated area. It was

1091
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:49,520
already a disturbed area. So that's why
I personally my opinion recommend an RDA

1092
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:54,000
as well.
>> Thank you. Any

1093
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:59,120
uh comments or questions from the
commission on RDA versus NOI after the

1094
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:04,159
fact?
>> I think RDA after the fact RDA is

1095
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:07,520
appropriate. I think it's fine.
>> Good.

1096
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:14,080
And what about storm water management
standards? Do those apply regardless of

1097
01:33:11,679 --> 01:33:20,560
whether it's an RDA or an NOI?
>> Like improvements of the storm water?

1098
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:26,360
Yes, they apply if it's a commercial
property, which if you deem it as such.

1099
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:36,840
Okay. Any other comments or questions
from the commission about this before I

1100
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:36,840
invite attorney Zer?

1101
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:44,320
» Go ahead, Adam.
>> Thank you everybody. Um I represent Har

1102
01:33:42,639 --> 01:33:47,600
Harbor's Point Condominium Association,
Adam Zagger from Toad Hall and Stewart.

1103
01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:55,440
Um we're going to be addressing this
matter um with Mass. I I um Mass DOT as

1104
01:33:52,800 --> 01:34:00,000
I think the commission is aware um was
the party that performed the substantial

1105
01:33:57,679 --> 01:34:05,840
work um involving the train tracks and
the spur track in that area um which

1106
01:34:02,639 --> 01:34:09,679
damaged the paving. Um the condominium
association repaired the damage. Um I

1107
01:34:08,480 --> 01:34:14,159
don't think there's been any alteration
of a resource area. Um but we're not

1108
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:20,080
sure that we have authority in just
ourselves to file an RDA u you know

1109
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:24,239
regarding a sequence of events that you
know really began with uh with MASDOT.

1110
01:34:23,199 --> 01:34:29,719
So, we're going to try to work with
them. Um, and, uh, we'll be back to you.

1111
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:40,000
And I will say also, um, you know, I
have reviewed the correspondence, uh,

1112
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:44,480
with D on this matter. Um, and though,
and though you describe it as, you know,

1113
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:48,239
unequivocal, I I I don't think that the
correspondence to D, you know, really

1114
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:50,480
painted the full picture of the facts
here.

1115
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:54,880
Um, you know, this is really just
maintenance of a condition that um was

1116
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:59,280
approved by the commission. It's all
been put back exactly in accordance with

1117
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:04,159
the original um certificate of
compliance plan. So, we're going to talk

1118
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:09,800
to Mass Dot um and and and get a filing
together, we hope. Um but it's going to

1119
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:09,800
take some coordination with them.

1120
01:35:12,159 --> 01:35:17,560
» Hear me? I'm being drowned out by a
passing commuter train.

1121
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:35,360
Okay, I'm back.
So, can you give us a time frame for

1122
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:39,199
this uh conversation and discussion with
>> I mean I would hope I would hope by your

1123
01:35:37,199 --> 01:35:43,280
meeting next month. Uh I mean it's you
know we're sort of at the mercy of

1124
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:48,320
communicating with MASDOT. They're not
the easiest agency, but we're hopeful

1125
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:52,639
that we can uh follow up with them and
and get something to you.

1126
01:35:50,480 --> 01:35:59,280
» Okay. Just to be clear, you would not
have done any work on this site except

1127
01:35:54,960 --> 01:36:02,560
for damage inflicted by mass dot.
>> Well, I think I mean, if you look at the

1128
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:06,960
Google maps, you know, historically, you
know, they all speak for themselves. Um

1129
01:36:05,199 --> 01:36:09,600
you there's a very significant and I'm
not sure if members of the commission

1130
01:36:08,239 --> 01:36:14,880
are personally aware of it but there was
a very significant project repairing the

1131
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:19,120
tracks that spur track um you know
essentially was used as a staging area

1132
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:22,400
um you know it really you know degraded
the p the paving was old uh but it was

1133
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:25,520
degraded beyond [clears throat] repair
that the handicap parking spots were

1134
01:36:24,159 --> 01:36:29,920
even gone. So the association
essentially um you know their goal was

1135
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:33,760
to put it back exactly as it was um
which is what was done. There was no

1136
01:36:31,199 --> 01:36:37,520
excavation. It's just it was just just
putting I think it was described to D in

1137
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:41,280
the correspondence as it used to be a
gravel, but it really wasn't gravel. It

1138
01:36:39,199 --> 01:36:45,360
was really just the subbase material
that's probably been there since 1985. I

1139
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:49,440
mean, it may have been repaired and
replaced, you know, time and time again.

1140
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:52,880
Um, the commission may also not be aware
there was there was actually a slip and

1141
01:36:50,719 --> 01:36:58,800
fall that precipitated this. um an
employee from Dunkin Donuts was walking

1142
01:36:55,920 --> 01:37:03,360
to the train platform, slipped into a
pothole, um suffered injury, you know,

1143
01:37:01,119 --> 01:37:08,000
resulting litigation. Um so that shined
a light on it, uh in particular. Um so

1144
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:11,840
that was that was I think what
precipitated the need to make sure it

1145
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:15,440
was all cleaned up. Um but again, also,
I mean, of course, we need to put

1146
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:19,920
handicap parking spaces, stripe them, um
you know, all as it was approved back

1147
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:24,719
when Harbor's Point uh was initially
developed. And so that's that that

1148
01:37:22,159 --> 01:37:27,360
condition's been restored and uh
>> you know we'll need to talk to mass dod

1149
01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:31,600
about a filing.
>> I'm gonna take that as a yes to my yes

1150
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:37,600
no question that [clears throat] this
filing would not work would not have

1151
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:45,080
occurred but for mass DO's
um damaging the

1152
01:37:41,119 --> 01:37:45,080
the parking area.

1153
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:51,360
Okay. Any other questions for attorney
Zerger?

1154
01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:57,119
Steve, I think it would be good to have
a a deadline. The 22nd is a seems to be

1155
01:37:54,560 --> 01:38:00,119
a reasonable one for
um

1156
01:38:00,159 --> 01:38:10,719
for either or for a uh after the fact
RDA filing or a notice that DOT mass DOT

1157
01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:15,920
is taking responsibility.
>> Yeah. I I don't I can't speak for Adam,

1158
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:21,119
but if his experience is anything like
mine, Mass DOT generally takes quite a

1159
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:24,800
long time, especially if you're asking
them to acknowledge responsibility. I

1160
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:27,920
» I will report to you for the next
meeting, you know, where we are either

1161
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:33,760
way. Um you know, we're going to reach
out to them promptly and uh you know,

1162
01:38:31,440 --> 01:38:37,679
we'll we'll leave you in the dark, but
if I don't have anything to report, I

1163
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:41,920
don't have anything to report. So,
here's my last question, which is why

1164
01:38:40,159 --> 01:38:48,000
not just go ahead and file the after
the-act RDA. It's not a terribly

1165
01:38:44,719 --> 01:38:53,520
complicated thing to do and then sort
out whether Mass DOT owes you some

1166
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:58,239
reimbursement for the cost of the filing
or something else.

1167
01:38:56,000 --> 01:39:01,119
» Um, I just I'd rather talk to DP. I
mean, the documents I don't know if

1168
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:06,880
you've reviewed the documents that
govern the the MBTA easement. I mean, it

1169
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:10,880
is their parking lot. um on weekdays
from 9:00 to 5:00. Um the association

1170
01:39:09,440 --> 01:39:14,560
really only has use of the parking lot
in evenings, weekends. Uh I I don't feel

1171
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:17,840
comfortable on behalf of the
association, you know, making a filing

1172
01:39:16,239 --> 01:39:22,159
for what's essentially their parking lot
for repair damage caused by their work

1173
01:39:20,480 --> 01:39:25,159
uh you know, without coordinating with
them.

1174
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:32,880
» Okay.
I mean is I I to date I mean I don't

1175
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:36,880
think anybody has identified any issue
with the work that was done any

1176
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:40,639
alteration of the wetlands that is
causing the commission concern. I think

1177
01:39:38,480 --> 01:39:44,800
it merely paperwork.
>> How would we how would we know? We have

1178
01:39:42,639 --> 01:39:47,199
no filing, no plans, no engineering
designs, no wetland.

1179
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:51,040
» There are there aren't there are none.
It was simply just putting back what was

1180
01:39:49,199 --> 01:39:52,800
there. That was it.
>> Yeah.

1181
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:56,960
» And I think there's there was c nothing
was done to the catch basins. They put

1182
01:39:54,480 --> 01:40:02,239
some gravel um you know next to the
train track just to clean things up. Um

1183
01:39:59,679 --> 01:40:06,639
but nothing it was it was all just if
you look at the original certificate of

1184
01:40:04,719 --> 01:40:09,360
compliance plan that's on file. I I went
into the office.

1185
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:11,840
» You've made these points already. We I
understand them.

1186
01:40:10,159 --> 01:40:14,480
» Well, no, but I you asked how and I'm
just saying that you could

1187
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:19,119
» for the record when I go to Dunkin
Donuts tomorrow morning and park in

1188
01:40:16,159 --> 01:40:25,199
front of them, I'm parking on MBTA space
illegally.

1189
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:27,119
No, that's not part of the MBTA lot.
>> Yes, that's what I [clears throat]

1190
01:40:26,159 --> 01:40:30,320
thought.
>> Okay, thank you.

1191
01:40:28,639 --> 01:40:35,440
» But why what's what was the purpose of
that question? It's it's I'm not clear

1192
01:40:33,440 --> 01:40:38,960
what the relevance is and what it's
>> it was that you had stated that this was

1193
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:42,080
an MBTA lot and
>> no no the law

1194
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:44,400
» you need to be more specific.
>> Okay. Well, I think

1195
01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:48,480
» that says you need to be more specific
in the work that was done there. We have

1196
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:52,239
your work, but we don't have any
engineering design or plans. We don't

1197
01:40:50,719 --> 01:40:56,400
have a contractor statement. We don't
have any

1198
01:40:53,600 --> 01:41:00,080
» ability to judge. Um, which is why we
need an ANRAD,

1199
01:40:58,159 --> 01:41:04,000
sorry, an RDA.
>> Well, again, I I had I had thought the

1200
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:08,239
commission understood and knew and that
most, you know, the the town officials

1201
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:11,520
know where the MBTA parking lot is. It's
the it's their there's specifically

1202
01:41:09,679 --> 01:41:14,800
delineated spaces that are shown on the
recorded plan that sort of pick up, you

1203
01:41:13,440 --> 01:41:17,840
know, behind the Allen's building. So,
when you're referring to parking in

1204
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:24,400
front of Dunkin Donuts, that's not the
MBTA lot. The MBTA lot is is the portion

1205
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:27,760
u it begins roughly at at the rear of of
Allen's and then there are some spaces

1206
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:32,560
on the side of Allens, but they're
specifically delineated spaces that are

1207
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:36,000
the MBTAs and all of the paving in this
case was to that MBTA portion of the

1208
01:41:35,199 --> 01:41:39,600
lot.
>> Right. I can only say that this is

1209
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:44,960
another example of the specifics that
are missing in this case and we're glad

1210
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:48,400
to hear them. But again, we need to hear
all of them. Otherwise, we can't do our

1211
01:41:47,440 --> 01:41:52,639
work.
>> Volunteers here trying to protect the

1212
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:55,199
wetlands and give us material, we'll do
our job.

1213
01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:59,080
» No, understood. But I think it and I
just gave you more material than than

1214
01:41:56,719 --> 01:42:04,000
you gave to the D. So, you
[clears throat] know, it's it's uh it

1215
01:42:01,199 --> 01:42:08,080
goes both ways.
>> Very well.

1216
01:42:06,239 --> 01:42:15,679
» All right. Nothing else from the
commission. Let's uh move on to the next

1217
01:42:12,159 --> 01:42:20,960
item which may also concern you which is
updates on 7 central. This was triggered

1218
01:42:18,719 --> 01:42:26,000
because there was some
uh activity involving um construction

1219
01:42:23,679 --> 01:42:32,800
equipment behind 7 central a couple of
weeks ago observed by numerous people

1220
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:41,119
including several of us
from uh the public way or uh

1221
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:46,560
nearby vantage points. So, uh, naturally
we were concerned because this property

1222
01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:51,440
has had a recurrence of unpermitted
activity and we wondered whether this

1223
01:42:48,480 --> 01:42:55,679
was another example. U, Bethany, you've
done some

1224
01:42:53,600 --> 01:43:01,679
initial investigation. Do you want to
bring us up to date?

1225
01:42:56,960 --> 01:43:05,600
» Yes. I looked at it from the fire
station

1226
01:43:03,280 --> 01:43:10,239
parking lot and what it looked like to
me at first was the spread of pea

1227
01:43:08,159 --> 01:43:16,080
gravel. And since I just want to
emphasize that this because of the

1228
01:43:12,719 --> 01:43:22,080
brook, this is a riverfront area. So
riverfront areas have different um

1229
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:31,199
exemptions than a bordering vegetated
wetland like we saw in 21 um sorry 20 at

1230
01:43:27,440 --> 01:43:38,159
the harbors point parking association
condominium association. Sorry. So um

1231
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:44,560
maintenance of a parking lot in this
case is like an exempt activity if it

1232
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:49,920
doesn't imp impact like storm water. So
spreading of the pearavevel in my

1233
01:43:47,199 --> 01:43:58,320
opinion under this exemption of the
river front protection act is is an

1234
01:43:54,639 --> 01:44:02,080
exempt activity and the cobblestones is
like landscaping which could be

1235
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:06,560
considered an exempt activity. There's
just this point. There's just the

1236
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:15,440
questionable I don't know what it is
manhole covering which I've heard that

1237
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:18,480
Adam is finding out the answer to
that.

1238
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:24,639
» Okay.
>> If I got all of it. Thank you.

1239
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:32,239
» And did our prior um order on seven
central um require

1240
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:38,560
uh notice before any alteration?
Yes. At least to the office,

1241
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:42,480
» right? And was that given to you?
>> No.

1242
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:48,159
» Okay.
So perhaps these are exempt activities.

1243
01:44:44,719 --> 01:44:55,360
Perhaps once again we lack facts because
lack notice in this case uh in violation

1244
01:44:51,679 --> 01:45:02,080
of the prior order of conditions.
And for some of us at least um this is

1245
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:05,080
becoming tiresome as well as
frustrating.

1246
01:45:10,719 --> 01:45:20,560
So um we need to unravel this particular
situation the latest um potential

1247
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:26,560
alteration potential exemption per
potential mixture of the two.

1248
01:45:23,679 --> 01:45:30,000
And here why we were not provided any
notice as required in the prior order of

1249
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:35,520
conditions.
>> Um um determination of applicability.

1250
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:38,800
» It was a determination of applicability.
It

1251
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:46,080
» was an RDA. That's correct.
Um and then we need to weigh um what are

1252
01:45:43,119 --> 01:45:50,560
the alternatives for
improving this

1253
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:57,480
lack of communication and lack of
enforcement?

1254
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:57,480
Henry, you want to add anything to that?

1255
01:46:00,639 --> 01:46:10,560
Uh h
no that all sounds I'd love to get a

1256
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:16,159
fairly straight answer if possible on on
that why we weren't informed about that.

1257
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:21,480
» Okay. Anybody else on the commission
have a question or comment about 7

1258
01:46:18,480 --> 01:46:21,480
central?

1259
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:28,199
» All right. Unless uh

1260
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:35,920
Mark or Adam or others want to be heard,
we'll just leave it there.

1261
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:41,199
» Well, I was just going to tell Mr.
Edinger um respond to his question um of

1262
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:46,639
why they weren't informed is because it
was not an not an alteration. It was

1263
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:51,360
just maintenance. Um as far as I've been
advised, it was just simply just

1264
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:56,320
neatening up the Keystone, making the
area look neat and attractive. Um,

1265
01:46:54,000 --> 01:47:00,800
that's it. Um, I've inquired about the
manhole. I went out to look for it. I

1266
01:46:58,239 --> 01:47:05,440
couldn't see it out there. Um, and the
area looks identical to what I've uh

1267
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:11,280
I've observed historically, you know,
other than that row of uh of uh

1268
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:14,800
cobblestones that Bethany referred to. I
can't recall whether that was there

1269
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:20,080
before or not. Um, but I could not
locate that manhole. Um, I've asked I've

1270
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:25,119
asked this just came up essentially
yesterday. um at least in my inbox. Um

1271
01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:30,440
so I'll try to get some more information
for the commission.

1272
01:47:27,199 --> 01:47:30,440
» Thank you.

1273
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:38,800
» All right, we've reached the uh any
other items not reasonably anticipated

1274
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:45,119
when we formed the agenda.
Anything on on somebody's mind? Any old

1275
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:52,239
business I've neglected?
>> I'll just give like 15 second update. Um

1276
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:56,880
I'm the concom rep to the facilities
planning committee and we've been

1277
01:47:54,400 --> 01:48:00,880
meeting fairly regularly.
Uh the committee is

1278
01:47:59,360 --> 01:48:05,520
um
DPW

1279
01:48:02,719 --> 01:48:12,639
along with representatives from several
town commissions and boards and

1280
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:18,320
committees. And um the goal is to review
vertical building projects. So, not

1281
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:24,159
necessarily roadways or improvements to
roadways, but buildings like um Lincoln

1282
01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:30,880
Street Well,
uh the new or proposed DPW facility,

1283
01:48:28,239 --> 01:48:37,600
proposed fire facility, proposed police
facility, um things of that nature. And

1284
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:41,920
um there is going to be we're going to
give a presentation I believe to finance

1285
01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:46,159
committee
in the next week or two and I'll send an

1286
01:48:44,320 --> 01:48:51,440
email out if anybody wants to either
watch that or ask me about it after

1287
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:55,600
that's great or if anybody has questions
just shoot me an email.

1288
01:48:54,320 --> 01:49:00,960
Thank you.
>> Thanks for doing that. I did have one

1289
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:08,119
other question maybe for Mark, which is
did anything transpire at the White and

1290
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:08,119
Black Beach meeting a week ago?

1291
01:49:11,440 --> 01:49:18,600
Or was that in fact um aborted
as Bethany?

1292
01:49:22,719 --> 01:49:27,520
» You're muted, Mark.
He's a co-host, so he should be able to

1293
01:49:26,719 --> 01:49:32,560
unmute himself.
>> There you go. Um I don't recall what

1294
01:49:30,719 --> 01:49:37,040
meeting related to White and Black
Beach. Maybe it was

1295
01:49:34,239 --> 01:49:42,000
» It was a neighborhood um [clears throat]
of a U

1296
01:49:39,199 --> 01:49:48,960
rehash
options presented by the consultant and

1297
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:55,360
opportunity for neighbors to to weigh in
open to the public. uh was

1298
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:59,840
» in at the select boards meeting.
>> No, it was uh I think it was hosted by

1299
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:04,560
Tony Barleta
and uh

1300
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:09,440
» conducted kind of independent of any
border commission.

1301
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:16,560
» I'll I'll follow up with him.
>> Okay. I don't recall

1302
01:50:12,480 --> 01:50:21,840
uh whether I was there. Um so I was at
several of the previous meetings where a

1303
01:50:18,639 --> 01:50:26,800
variety of options were discussed but um
I don't think at even at this point I

1304
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:34,000
might have been there um
there's any definitive um you know um

1305
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:39,440
decision made on any of these options
>> there is like a 60page presentation

1306
01:50:36,536 --> 01:50:44,639
[clears throat] now online to talk about
their

1307
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:49,280
I think it's their recommendation Wasn't
about the people wanted parking there or

1308
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:56,639
the fixed stuff?
>> Yeah, the the general uh gist is a lot

1309
01:50:52,639 --> 01:51:04,560
of the people want kind of the facil the
access to the beach to remain the same

1310
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:09,679
that they really um many of them don't
want to change how the roadway works,

1311
01:51:07,679 --> 01:51:15,760
whether it's one way or two-way. They
prefer it to stay the same. they'd still

1312
01:51:12,159 --> 01:51:22,880
like to have parking there. Um so that
was a lot of the concern that was heard

1313
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:31,760
from the neighbors. Um some of the other
were um issues related to and questions

1314
01:51:26,719 --> 01:51:37,920
about the um you know the the seaw wall
the culvert the conditions of that. So

1315
01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:44,159
there's still um a lot of unanswered
questions and and uh work that needs to

1316
01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:52,000
like uh preliminary you know work that
needs to be done along that uh um yeah

1317
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:59,440
along those lines before
>> you can get to any of the decision

1318
01:51:53,920 --> 01:52:07,599
making kind of uh uh steps. So, um it
was uh kind of um you know uh another

1319
01:52:04,960 --> 01:52:09,840
kind of preliminary meeting.
>> Got it.

1320
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:11,840
» Thank [clears throat] you, Mark.
>> Mhm.

1321
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:17,920
» Yes.
>> And that does it. Who uh who's eligible

1322
01:52:14,719 --> 01:52:22,560
to make the motion we all want to hear?
>> Man,

1323
01:52:19,679 --> 01:52:28,560
I certainly will whether I'm eligible or
not. Move to adjourn.

1324
01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:32,639
Second.
>> Have a show of hands.

1325
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:34,000
» Thanks everybody.
>> Thank you all.

1326
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:40,400
» Thanks.
>> Good work. Under two hours. Four NOIs.

1327
01:52:38,159 --> 01:52:43,440
It's not a record, but it's close.
>> It's darn close. Thank you guys. See

1328
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:45,199
you.
>> Thank you.

1329
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:48,560
» Thank you, Bethany. Mark.
>> Thanks, Bethany.

1330
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:48,560
» Yeah.