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I guess that's close enough to four to

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call it a thing.

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Uh,

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>> wait a couple seconds.

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>> Okay, nitpicker.

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>> Shelly might show up.

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>> That's true.

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Okay, you're probably good.

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Thanks.

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We call to order the Monday, April 27th,

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2026,

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Manaste City Zoning Board of Appeals

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meeting. We have a couple of variances

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on the agenda today.

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Uh going to call the meeting to order

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and ask the clerk to take role, please.

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>> Board member Johnson,

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>> yes.

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>> Board member Dworth,

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>> here. Uh, Vice Chair Drain

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>> here

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>> and Chair Spalding

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>> speaking here. Present,

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>> one absence.

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>> And one absence. Uh, board member member

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two.

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>> Correct.

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» Next on our agenda is the election of

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officers.

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There are there any nominations?

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In what order do you want to take them?

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Vice chair and then chair or chair?

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I'll Jackie take nominations for

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chair and then the chair will take

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nominations for vice chair.

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>> I would nominate party for chair.

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>> Support.

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>> That was like water going downhill,

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wasn't it?

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>> Any other nominations?

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>> No.

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>> Thanks, guys.

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>> You're welcome.

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>> Uh clerk can take role.

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>> Board member Johnson.

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>> Yes.

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>> Board member Dworth.

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>> Yes.

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Vice Chair Duang.

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>> Yes.

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>> And chair member Spalding.

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>> Yes.

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» And for Vice Chair, do we have

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nominations?

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» Like to nominee.

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>> Hold the frame.

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>> Yep.

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>> Any other nominations?

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>> We'll close that and they can take

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the roll call on that.

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>> Okay. Board member Johnson. Yes.

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>> Uh, board member Dworth.

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>> Yes.

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>> Vice Chair Defrain.

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>> Yes.

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>> And Chair Spalding.

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>> Yes.

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» All right. Back in the saddle for

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another year. Approval of the agenda. We

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had our last meeting.

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>> Oh. Uh, secretary to not, uh, elect

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Jackie as your recording secretary.

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>> We need a nomination.

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Would you like to nominate our

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secretary?

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>> Well, technically I think it's a one of

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us is elected secretary and then

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>> and then you'll nominate

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>> and then we

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staff

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>> like to nominate Bunny for secretary.

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>> Dan, would you forget? You're too slow.

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>> I would second that.

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» Okay.

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>> Vote, please.

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>> Um, okay. Board member Johnson.

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Board member Dworth.

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>> Yes.

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>> Vice Chair Defrain.

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>> Yes.

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>> And Cher Spalding.

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>> Yes.

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» Nominate Jackie to be the recording

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secretary.

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>> So moved.

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>> Second.

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>> Board member. Um and I accept. Uh board

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member Johnson.

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>> Yes.

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>> Uh board member Dworth.

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>> Yes. Vice Chair Drain,

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>> yes.

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>> And Chair Spalding,

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>> yes.

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Now, on to the approval of the agenda.

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We had a meeting in April 7th of 2025.

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>> Well, this is today's agenda.

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>> Oh, approve. Yes, correct. Approval of

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today's agenda.

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>> So moved. Second.

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Any discussion?

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I didn't take the call for that.

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>> Board member Johnson,

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>> yes.

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>> Board member Dillard,

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>> yes.

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>> Vice Chair Drain,

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>> yes.

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>> Chair Spalding,

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>> yes.

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Does any member have any conflicts of

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interest with anything on the agenda

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today?

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>> Nope.

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>> No. No. Not that I'm aware of. Now, for

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the third time, we'll try to get the

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minutes of the last meeting approved.

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Our last meeting, believe it or not, was

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April 7th of 2025.

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That's how active the zoning board of

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appeals is.

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So, we have a

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uh compilation of the proceedings of

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that hearing in front of us that we need

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to approve unless there is modification

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or correction to it.

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>> Motion to approve as presented.

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>> Second.

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>> Support.

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>> Any discussion?

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Board member. Board member Johnson.

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>> Yes.

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>> Board member Dworth.

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>> Yes.

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>> Vice Chair Defrain.

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>> Yes.

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>> And Cher Spalding.

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>> Yes.

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We are going to wave the site

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inspection. Everybody uh for purposes of

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the two variances before us today has

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had uh lots of opportunity on their own

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to do their own reconnaissance on this

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and study the issues.

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Uh next on our agenda is public hearing.

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We have two variances

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proposed before us today for a parcel at

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91 Arthur Street in Manaste.

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Variances to sections 1814,

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section subsection C paragraph 4 and

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section 1814, subsection C paragraph 5.

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So we have a public hearing that we're

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going to open. Are we going to open

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these one at a time or are we going to

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open Okay, first we're going to open

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public hearing

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uh on the first of the variances which

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is subsection C paragraph 4 and the

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variance under consideration is that no

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billboard will be located within 660 ft

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of another billboard abutdding either

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side of the same highway which is US 31.

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If any member of the public would like

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to make a comment regarding uh that

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variance proposal, we're willing to hear

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that now.

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» Not seeing any.

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We'll move on to the public hearing.

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>> Do we need to address this?

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>> Yes.

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>> Okay.

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>> Hi, I'm Bridget.

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I own Wanderin along with my brother and

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Carrie. Um, and um, I just want to talk

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a second about this billboard. I don't

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have a dog in the fight about what this

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billboard ends up looking like. We when

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I bought this property way back when,

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um, I just want to give you a little

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history about this because we've had

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some public comments on social media

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about didn't you see the billboard? Yes,

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I saw the billboard. I know it was

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there. That's not that's not the the

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issue. What we didn't foresee was

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wandering growing and being as busy as

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it is. Um we're to a point now where if

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we don't do something to expand our

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dining area down the road or at least

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get where we can um enclose our patio,

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we're just running out of space. People

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are waiting two, three hours to get a

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spot to sit. Um, and it's becoming, you

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know, an issue for us with even at

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Christmas time having Christmas parties,

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letting families host um, events there,

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which we would like to do because it

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helps the um, helps the restaurant stay

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viable. Um, with this billboard, when I

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bought it, when it was the old Little

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Caesars um, building, when I initially

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spoke with Lamar, they said, "Yeah,

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we'll work with you to get whatever's

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done, get it moved, whatever."

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me. I've never dealt with a billboard

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before. Didn't have any clue that it had

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to go to this kind of, you know, extent

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to try to move a billboard. So, fast

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forward, we're sitting here. Um, we

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would love to enclose our patio

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eventually. Can't do that with the

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billboard there. I'm not even sure that

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their billboard is

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where it's supposed to be on our own

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property. Um, and whether it hangs over,

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there's some question about that. And I

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don't really care. What I care about is

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being able to operate the restaurant. um

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and make sure that it's sustainable. And

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it's not sustainable with people backing

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out the door, you know, um

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waiting two or three hours to get a

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seat. And the other part of this is I

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don't care that it says marijuana above

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it. People have made a comment, oh, it's

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because it says marijuana. We don't

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care. They go get their marijuana and

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come to us for cheese curds. I don't

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really care. I don't have a dog in that

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fight either. I'm not I don't do

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marijuana, but um I do cheese curds. Um,

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so, um, but the thing is is we are

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willing to give up parking spots, a

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couple of them, which cost us to get

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that billboard moved. Um, and I

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couldn't, the other question that was

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asked of me is why did you build the

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restaurant in that space knowing the

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billboard was there? I had to because it

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came with an Oprah to be able to build

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the restaurant there. So, it had to be

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built on the base of the Little Caesar's

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restaurant. Otherwise, I would have put

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the restaurant on the other end of the

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property. couldn't do that because of

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wetlands. So, there was a lot of, you

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know, discussion around this billboard

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beforehand and we just decided to build

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it. They'll come, we'll see what

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happens. And so, here we are with this

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is what happens. And so, we are asking

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to move it. Um, and we are asking to

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move it. Right now, it's 150 ft from a

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current billboard, so it doesn't meet.

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It's 660. Um, if we move it, it'll get a

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lot closer to that number. It will still

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not meet quite 660, but it'll be way

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closer to that 660 number. I think it'

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be closer to 500, so 480 something. So,

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we are helping get it, you know, closer

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to not having two big billboards right

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across from each other. Um, so I guess

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that's all I have to say if if um unless

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somebody has a question for me about

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what's happening here.

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>> In um the documents you filed, you

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indicated you have had conversations

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with Lamar about the move. Yes, we have.

279
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,680
>> And they're agreeable. Apparently,

280
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:41,279
>> they said we have to start with number

281
00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:43,360
one, getting you guys agreeable. And

282
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,279
then they tried to make me pay for it.

283
00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:46,959
So, that's where it's going to be. A

284
00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:48,560
question is like, I'm giving you the

285
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:50,399
property.

286
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,160
And so, we need to come to terms with

287
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:53,600
who's going to pay for it. I don't mind

288
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,200
chipping some in if that's what I have

289
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,120
to do to get it out of the roof of my

290
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,640
restaurant. Um, but I don't know how

291
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,720
that will work. We just need to get step

292
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,360
one done. Is the current billboard, the

293
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,200
space itself, the property that it sits

294
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,120
on, leased by Lamar?

295
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,720
>> Yes, it's leased by the Lamar, and I

296
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,440
don't own I they that was already leased

297
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,959
before I bought the property. So, it

298
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:16,880
came with a 99-year lease when I brought

299
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,560
the property. All right. I was not a

300
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,680
recipient of that money to lease to

301
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:23,040
them.

302
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,279
>> Well, the they currently aren't paying

303
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:26,079
you for that lease.

304
00:11:26,079 --> 00:11:26,800
>> No. No.

305
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:27,120
>> No.

306
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:27,760
>> Okay.

307
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,120
>> What are they paying?

308
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,760
>> It's it's actually it's actually an

309
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,160
easement. It's not a lease and it's

310
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:34,959
perpetual.

311
00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:37,120
>> Perpetual easement. Trust me, I tried to

312
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,800
get around that every way possible with

313
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:39,839
my attorneys

314
00:11:39,839 --> 00:11:41,519
>> as easement. That means it's city

315
00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:42,160
property.

316
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,360
>> No, it belonged to I think whoever

317
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,760
started the Little Caesars

318
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,640
way way long time ago did this easement

319
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,560
to them for some silly amount of money.

320
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:54,880
I think it was like $2,000. I mean, it's

321
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,240
a really really small amount.

322
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,680
>> It was 22,000.

323
00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:58,959
>> 22,000. Okay.

324
00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:00,880
>> Onetime payment. onetime payment,

325
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,640
>> which I'm sure they got back in a couple

326
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:03,200
of years.

327
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:03,680
>> Oh, yeah.

328
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,240
>> Oh, they've multiplied that. I don't

329
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,480
love billboards. If it was my city, I

330
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,959
would vote them all out of here. Um I I

331
00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:12,800
don't love them. And I certainly don't

332
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,120
love it above the restaurant. Um you

333
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,800
know, for a for a multitude of reasons.

334
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,399
People do get confused. Are you a

335
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,560
Culver's? We've had people come in think

336
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:21,920
we're culvers and then they come in

337
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,399
asking where the marijuana is and you

338
00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:26,880
know, so whatever's up above us, that's

339
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,279
what they think we are. Um, and I feel

340
00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:31,600
like Wanderin has added a lot to this

341
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,480
community. We've put a lot of money into

342
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,079
that property. I'm almost $2.5 million

343
00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:41,040
into rehabbing that property. Um,

344
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,440
including, you know, the redo the um,

345
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,120
redoing the seaw wall, working with

346
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,480
Eagle, um, beautifying the property from

347
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,320
what it was. As you all know, it was

348
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,200
really a ramshackle kind of mess down

349
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,120
there. And so we're $2.5 million in and

350
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,160
the restaurant is is doing well. It's

351
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,160
doing very well for a small community,

352
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,079
but we really need to seat more people

353
00:13:04,079 --> 00:13:06,240
in order to make it long-term

354
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,839
sustainable.

355
00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:10,639
>> Just one other quick question. Um are

356
00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:13,920
the current um folks being advertised on

357
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,320
it in any way involved with discussions

358
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,320
between you and Lamar um or will they be

359
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,560
concerned about the move?

360
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,480
>> I don't know. They can rent or not rent

361
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:25,839
because it's a monthly rental.

362
00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:26,880
>> It's a monthly.

363
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,079
>> Yeah, it's a monthly rental.

364
00:13:28,079 --> 00:13:28,959
>> Standing.

365
00:13:28,959 --> 00:13:31,040
>> They don't have a standing or I mean

366
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,800
they're going to rent whatever. Like we

367
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,959
rent billboards on the outside of both

368
00:13:34,959 --> 00:13:35,600
sides of town.

369
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:36,480
>> I've seen them. Yeah.

370
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,839
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't think that has

371
00:13:39,839 --> 00:13:42,399
any bearing on it moving or not. As a

372
00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:45,200
matter of fact, I think if it moves to

373
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,120
where we're talking, I think as you come

374
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:48,959
around that curve once the new road is

375
00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:50,560
done, it will have better better

376
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,800
visibility and you won't be looking at

377
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,320
sign sign. You know, when you're

378
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,560
driving, your eyes are trying to look at

379
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,639
both signs. And if you've got, you know,

380
00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:00,880
a sign further away, I think it's it's

381
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,000
safer in some ways. And I think it does

382
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,920
look better to not have two signs on top

383
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:11,030
of each other.

384
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,240
Now, will there be any um issue around

385
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,320
the permanent lease or long-standing

386
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,199
lease if the billboard is moved? Will

387
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:23,040
that would that be impacted in any way?

388
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,519
>> That might be a discussion outside of

389
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:28,560
what we're here to look at today. I

390
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,040
mean, we have we have two variances in

391
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:31,760
front of us.

392
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,279
>> Yeah, I see that. And from my

393
00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:40,160
review of this, there's a myriad of

394
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,040
tangents here

395
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,639
>> of issues that could arise.

396
00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:44,560
>> Well, yeah. And the the concern I have

397
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,720
is as a as a board, we would want to um

398
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,240
at least take those things into

399
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,279
consideration to make our

400
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:54,959
agreement to or disagreement to a

401
00:14:54,959 --> 00:14:57,279
variance um workable for the parties

402
00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,279
involved. Well, from what I understand,

403
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:02,079
if you This is me talking to Lamar and

404
00:15:02,079 --> 00:15:03,920
their attorney. From what I understand

405
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,000
is if you approve for us to move it, the

406
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,839
next step that we have is we have to

407
00:15:07,839 --> 00:15:10,800
give them an easement to the space where

408
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,240
we're going to move it to, which is our

409
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,399
property, we can do that. And then they

410
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:16,320
have to release the easement that we

411
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:17,600
have on ours. That would be done

412
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,639
simultaneously at one closing. And that

413
00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:22,959
would just be a simple easement that we

414
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:25,120
file any other way. And that was talking

415
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,199
to their attorney today. So, we would

416
00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:29,519
just swap easement spaces

417
00:15:29,519 --> 00:15:31,360
>> and it would be the same size. It would

418
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:32,800
not be an increase in size.

419
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,639
>> The proposed location, to my

420
00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:36,959
understanding, is on an adjacent

421
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:39,920
property that was not part of the

422
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,320
original Little Caesar's property.

423
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,160
>> That is one piece of property now. I

424
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,800
combined Yeah, I combined the parcels.

425
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,440
>> It wasn't in 2006 when the zoning orders

426
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:49,759
was

427
00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:51,920
>> No. And they didn't they couldn't have

428
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,759
gotten I mean, they couldn't have put

429
00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,320
the sign there then. Um, I don't know

430
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,240
why how they ended up with two signs

431
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,959
close to each other when the rule is 660

432
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:03,199
feet and they get it 150 feet. That's

433
00:16:03,199 --> 00:16:04,720
kind of there must have been a variance

434
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,040
for that to begin with or there wasn't a

435
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,360
rule at that time. I don't know.

436
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,839
>> More than likely the the rule wasn't

437
00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:14,639
>> wasn't in place. Yeah. But um yeah, I

438
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:16,320
combined those parcels for a lot of

439
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,440
reasons just to make it easy and um make

440
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,800
it seamless for a lot of things. So uh

441
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,560
partially being the um tip funding.

442
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,880
>> So

443
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,600
you have any other comments for us based

444
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,519
on the separation issue. We have to have

445
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,360
a another hearing on the setback.

446
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,720
>> Yeah, I'm not sure about the setback

447
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,160
thing.

448
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,240
>> Rob, you might have to fill in on that.

449
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,079
>> Well, as far as I

450
00:16:46,079 --> 00:16:47,839
>> didn't think we needed a setback, but

451
00:16:47,839 --> 00:16:50,480
>> Okay. Well, we do.

452
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,639
>> Could you come up and need you to, you

453
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:52,959
know,

454
00:16:52,959 --> 00:16:55,040
>> do you want to close the

455
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,519
>> Are you speaking on this issue or on the

456
00:16:57,519 --> 00:16:58,480
setback?

457
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,160
>> Okay. So, if there are any other

458
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,319
comments from the public on the spacing

459
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,319
issue.

460
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,240
Okay. I will close that public hearing

461
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,199
and open another one regarding

462
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:15,839
subsection C paragraph 5 about the

463
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,439
setback

464
00:17:17,439 --> 00:17:20,160
in article 18 standards and requirements

465
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,480
for special uses

466
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,679
or sideyard setbacks

467
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:30,559
um for other billboard applications.

468
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:32,559
Well, from my understanding from deep

469
00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:34,080
>> need your name and address.

470
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,919
>> Rob Vanderhoff from Wanderin. Um I spoke

471
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:41,039
with DTW. Mattie was down there with us.

472
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:44,240
Um we know the water line runs close to

473
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,440
where we wanted to put it. Um we worked

474
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,320
with him. We marked a 10-ft set back

475
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,240
from the water line. I think it was 10

476
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,559
ft 10 or 12 feet somewhere in that

477
00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:56,720
vicinity. And he said that would be fine

478
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,880
with them as long as it was that

479
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,600
distance back. It is set back from the

480
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,080
Milwaukee property as well because their

481
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,760
property line is close to where we

482
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,360
wanted to put it on that last parking

483
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,200
spot. So, I'm not exactly sure on what

484
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,200
that distance is because we would have

485
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,400
to look at a plat map to exactly see

486
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,799
what that setback would be, but I don't

487
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:21,360
know what the city setback is on the

488
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,840
property line for something like that

489
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:24,880
>> on the side.

490
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,720
>> Yeah.

491
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,280
>> 10 probably. Oh, we're well over that.

492
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,440
>> Yeah, we're we're well over where we

493
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,480
wanted to put it. I

494
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,000
>> Hey, I I have a question.

495
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:34,720
>> Okay.

496
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,320
>> Um

497
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,559
the setback math um I assume that you're

498
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:43,919
kind of um addressing setback from where

499
00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:45,360
the post is placed.

500
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:46,000
>> Yes.

501
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,679
>> So on top of the post you have the

502
00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:51,039
actual billboard which can be moved all

503
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:52,880
the way to one side, all the way to the

504
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,240
other side or can be right in the middle

505
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:54,960
of the post.

506
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,799
>> Yes. And we have to consider setback

507
00:18:56,799 --> 00:18:58,720
from the two furthest points.

508
00:18:58,720 --> 00:18:59,840
>> Okay.

509
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:00,960
>> Where they are.

510
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,679
>> So which way is it? Is the is the sign

511
00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:05,919
going to be straight up on the post or

512
00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:07,679
is it going to hang all because I think

513
00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:09,360
right now you have kind of considered a

514
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:10,160
flag sign.

515
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,760
>> Yeah, it's it's hanging this way and

516
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,520
that's the way Lamar would like to

517
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:14,400
continue it.

518
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,880
>> So we have to measure from that side of

519
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:17,919
the sign.

520
00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:18,559
>> Okay.

521
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:22,640
>> Where do you know how wide the sign is?

522
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,559
No, I do not know that because it's got

523
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:27,039
a V on it

524
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:28,000
>> V's out and I

525
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,039
>> measurement in application.

526
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:33,039
>> R did not give me that information.

527
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:36,480
>> If if I might, there hasn't been um any

528
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,799
application to actually move yet. We're

529
00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:41,120
talking about a variance before an

530
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,799
application to to locate that would take

531
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:47,039
place. And such an application would

532
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:49,360
have to be reviewed by

533
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:50,799
>> Yeah. We would look at the dimensions.

534
00:19:50,799 --> 00:19:51,440
>> Right. Right.

535
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,320
>> And we may we are all aware that that's

536
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,440
your job and you'll do that. What you're

537
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,160
asking for now is sort of a preemptive

538
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,880
uh agreement that we would allow the

539
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,600
variance.

540
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,000
>> Yes.

541
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,280
>> For that setback.

542
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:05,600
>> All right.

543
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,120
>> Okay. Because I I noticed in the

544
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,280
application for the variance that it

545
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,559
says 240 square ft, which kind of seems

546
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:14,880
like maybe 10 by 24 or something.

547
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:15,280
>> Yeah.

548
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,320
>> Um

549
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,320
>> Mr. Chairman, can I interject?

550
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:19,280
>> Sure.

551
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,440
the board needs to approve a specific

552
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,360
variance. So you need to approve a

553
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,760
variance of for example 10 feet or 5

554
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,480
feet or 15 feet. Uh you can approve a

555
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,799
general variance from your setback

556
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:31,520
requirements.

557
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:31,840
>> Okay.

558
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,280
>> So it's a little bit tricky since we're

559
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,200
not certain what specific variance is

560
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,159
being requested.

561
00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:38,320
>> All right. Would it be reasonable then

562
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,880
to ask them to come back when the plan

563
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,520
and application for that takes place so

564
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,600
that we can actually make a variance

565
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,679
that is in agreement with what the city

566
00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:51,120
needs? I think we could make a variance

567
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,080
that they have to work within

568
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,000
based on what the final they would have

569
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,799
to know that their final plan that the

570
00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:01,840
furthest outside measurement of the sign

571
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,000
has to meet that requirement. Would that

572
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:04,799
be correct?

573
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:05,120
>> Cir.

574
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,440
>> If the applicant can select a variance

575
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,120
that they would find acceptable, the

576
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:10,559
board can approve that. But you have to

577
00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:12,400
approve a specific variance.

578
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,919
>> Okay.

579
00:21:13,919 --> 00:21:16,240
And I that was my sense that we may be

580
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,559
just a little premature

581
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:22,080
for that particular variance um because

582
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,919
we don't have a plan. You don't have a

583
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:26,799
plan and we can't describe exactly what

584
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:28,000
is expected.

585
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,919
>> Um although I suppose we could

586
00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:36,320
we're we're empowered to require certain

587
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,120
specific things happen. Um but we don't

588
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,280
have the information to make that um

589
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,080
that detailed of of a request at this

590
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:44,400
point.

591
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,679
>> My question would be what's wrong with

592
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:48,400
the current uh requirement? Not you know

593
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,320
located no closer than required front

594
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,080
yard setback. Is there a problem with

595
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,799
that?

596
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:55,200
>> No.

597
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,280
>> You're requesting a change to that?

598
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:57,840
>> No.

599
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,480
I don't think we deal with it then.

600
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,080
You just have to follow it.

601
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,440
>> Yeah. I that's that was kind of what I'm

602
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:06,480
just sitting here thinking. And I'm

603
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:07,600
thinking, you know, we already have

604
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,919
those setbacks in place as long as we

605
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:13,120
follow those and we continue on. Um,

606
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,039
>> well, what you're proposing is is

607
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:15,919
relocating it.

608
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:16,960
>> Relocating the

609
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:17,919
>> different setback.

610
00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:20,000
>> Yes. It would have well whatever the

611
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:26,480
same setback is for whatever honor that honor that setback.

612
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,919
>> So that's where it would be.

613
00:22:27,919 --> 00:22:29,600
>> Closer than existing

614
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,919
>> existing. Well, unless that's in

615
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:33,760
variance, just like it's a variance from

616
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,760
the current requirement for proximity to

617
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,960
the closest sign.

618
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,520
>> Yeah,

619
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,720
>> I would say our our agreement ought I

620
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,679
would recommend it be honor the current

621
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:45,120
requirement.

622
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,600
>> However, this gets replaced except for

623
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,360
obviously distance because that sounds

624
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,760
to me like that's the one variance. Yes.

625
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,919
>> Do we know if it encroaches in the

626
00:22:53,919 --> 00:22:56,400
setback at present?

627
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,600
>> No. Oh, I mean the applicant can

628
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,520
withdraw its request for a variance. If

629
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,960
you're complying with the zoning

630
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,400
ordinance setback standards, you don't

631
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,080
need a variance for setback.

632
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,559
>> Exactly.

633
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:06,720
>> So, the applicant can withdraw their

634
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,640
variance request on the record.

635
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,000
>> Let's just draw.

636
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,280
>> Okay, we'll withdraw.

637
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,799
>> So, now we're down to spacing.

638
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:16,870
>> Yep.

639
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,600
» Do we need any formal acceptance of that

640
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,320
being withdrawn at the meeting or just

641
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,520
stating it on the record?

642
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,799
>> That was sufficient. It was stated on

643
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:25,520
the record.

644
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,080
>> Okay. So now then we're only dealing

645
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:28,960
>> now there's one

646
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:34,559
>> with section um 1814 subsection C

647
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:37,360
>> C4

648
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:37,919
>> right

649
00:23:37,919 --> 00:23:39,600
>> all right so that public hearing is now

650
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,760
closed and to some degree a moot point.

651
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,240
Uh so we can strike

652
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,159
from our agenda.

653
00:23:50,159 --> 00:23:51,039
>> Item two,

654
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:57,830
>> item number business session item two

655
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,640
» which is the variance from section 1814

656
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,480
C

657
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:15,909
>> five

658
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:19,520
In order for us to entertain

659
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,480
consideration of a variance,

660
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,080
uh the ordinance is pretty clear that

661
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,640
there are eight things, eight steps,

662
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,480
eight conditions that we have to find by

663
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,799
majority vote have been achieved.

664
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,159
Uh if you fail those, we're not really

665
00:24:40,159 --> 00:24:43,120
even allowed to give you the variance.

666
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,840
So, um

667
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,640
I will uh go through really quickly what

668
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,840
those eight items are and then we're

669
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,520
going to have our own little discussion

670
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,240
here and if we need clarification I

671
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,679
think we're allowed to come to you and

672
00:24:57,679 --> 00:25:01,039
ask for it.

673
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:04,240
So, we will

674
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,080
start by outlining what those eight

675
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,919
conditions are.

676
00:25:07,919 --> 00:25:09,200
>> Got them right on the screen for you.

677
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,240
>> Oh, how about that? Technology

678
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,480
So we've have to find first of all that

679
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,960
the requested variance is not contrary

680
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,600
to the public interest

681
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,600
uh or to the intent and purpose of the

682
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,120
ordinance.

683
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:24,880
We have to determine that the variance

684
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,120
does not establish a use that is not

685
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,480
permitted already by right or by special

686
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,520
use in that zoning district. You're in

687
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,600
the uh you're in the waterfront zoning

688
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,039
district uh which is not part of the C1

689
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:40,640
district.

690
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,559
Uh the requested variance does not

691
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:45,039
create an adverse ad effect upon

692
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:46,799
properties within the immediate vicinity

693
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:49,120
or in that district.

694
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:52,080
The variance is not of recurrent nature.

695
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,240
It's not something that is so common

696
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,760
that it should be addressed by the

697
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,320
ordinance itself.

698
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,640
The requested variance is for property

699
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,520
that is under your control.

700
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,279
The requested variance was not

701
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:08,159
self-created by you

702
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:11,919
um or by another party related to your

703
00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:14,559
ownership of the property. There's not

704
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:16,960
an alternative

705
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,440
solution here that would allow you to

706
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600
make your improvements without the

707
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,400
variance. And finally, that the

708
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,559
requested variance is the minimum amount

709
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,080
necessary to still allow you uh the

710
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,400
reasonable use of your land. So we have

711
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,679
to find that all eight of those

712
00:26:33,679 --> 00:26:38,960
conditions exist. And if um if if they

713
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,640
don't

714
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,120
uh or if they do we then we also have to

715
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,640
consider some uh other

716
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,520
requirements

717
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,520
here.

718
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,960
If we can satisfy all eight of those,

719
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,880
then we can grant you the variance if

720
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,720
either one of two other things occurs.

721
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,480
One of which is that there are practical

722
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,679
difficulties which prevent you from full

723
00:27:07,679 --> 00:27:10,159
compliance with the ordinance.

724
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:13,840
Uh and there are some uh terms of for us

725
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,120
to use in evaluating that for particular

726
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,840
parcels of land and that where there are

727
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,960
exceptional uses uh or circumstances or

728
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,120
physical conditions

729
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:28,080
uh that they do not generally apply to

730
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,320
other property in your district. They're

731
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,080
somewhat unique to your piece of land.

732
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,760
So, the first thing that we have to do

733
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,120
is we have to go down our list of of the

734
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,200
eight basic conditions that we're

735
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,679
required to find in your favor uh in

736
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:47,600
order for us to even have the ability to

737
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,360
grant the variance. Um, I've kind of

738
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,039
looked through these myself and some of

739
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:55,279
them are givens. Some of them are things

740
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:59,200
that I think you easily uh can uh can

741
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,919
assert apply to your position. Other

742
00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:05,200
ones we may have to have discussion here

743
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,480
and and do our own little

744
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,000
interpretation.

745
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,159
Uh the first one is that the requested

746
00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:12,399
variance shall not be contrary to the

747
00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:14,960
public interest or to the intent and

748
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,919
purpose of the ordinance. I'm a little

749
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:20,960
bit in a gray area on that one myself.

750
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,039
Um

751
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:26,640
there are references

752
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,000
in the ordinance

753
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,640
pretty specifically regarding billboards

754
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,399
and with this one obviously because of

755
00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:36,000
the variance request one of them is

756
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,960
spacing. Uh there's also uh another um

757
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,360
discussion about uh the number of

758
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:44,880
billboards that are permitted in the

759
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,279
city. Um, and

760
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,840
I think there could be some limited

761
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,000
conflict there depending on whether this

762
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,720
is considered a an existing or a

763
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,640
modified or uh relocated or new

764
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,440
billboard if another one is put up. And

765
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,679
I realize there's a discussion about

766
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:10,640
cancelling and creating easements at the

767
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,120
same time. Um, it's it's a little

768
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,679
complicated. It's not quite that simple.

769
00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:17,840
Um, but I'm a little bit in the black on

770
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,559
that one. Does anybody else have any any

771
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:24,159
comments on the first?

772
00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:26,880
>> Where are these listed while we talk

773
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,559
these? Cuz like you mentioned, there's a

774
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:30,159
little gray on this one. I'd just like

775
00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:31,919
to be looking at the wording of

776
00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:34,159
>> You're looking for This is This is the

777
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:35,679
same thing that's in the book. I just

778
00:29:35,679 --> 00:29:37,039
took all the other pages out.

779
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:38,399
>> Yep. And you were referring to what

780
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:41,520
piece of this? Well, under section for

781
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,320
uh 1814, billboards, uh

782
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,279
>> basic conditions.

783
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:46,799
>> Okay. Basic conditions

784
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:48,960
>> B uh section B

785
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,440
>> contrary

786
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,320
>> describes the content the the intent.

787
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,120
>> Um and I'm again I read those closely.

788
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,600
They're plain English language reasons

789
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,840
for why this section was written. And um

790
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,120
none of them is at at this point in my

791
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,919
opinion um

792
00:30:07,919 --> 00:30:12,559
beyond what uh would would cause us not

793
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:15,840
to continue to consider this variance. I

794
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,360
don't I don't think the intent um is

795
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,200
such that it would prevent us from

796
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,279
reasonably discussing the rest of these

797
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:24,799
issues so that we can get to the point

798
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:30,159
where we agree on a possible variance. I agree to some degree that this is kind

799
00:30:30,159 --> 00:30:33,840
of an on the fence one.

800
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,799
>> The second one is that the variance

801
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,000
would not permit the establishment

802
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,000
within this district of any use which is

803
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,039
not permitted by right

804
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:47,120
or any use or dimensional variance for

805
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,120
which a special land use permit is

806
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,799
required.

807
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:52,320
Uh

808
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,240
first it is worthy of note that in this

809
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,320
district which is the waterfront

810
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,559
district uh billboards are not permitted

811
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:04,799
um by special land use permit. That's

812
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:05,360
correct.

813
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,559
>> Mhm.

814
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:08,159
So

815
00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:10,399
we also though do need to consider the

816
00:31:10,399 --> 00:31:14,080
fact that the the second the the B

817
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,320
paragraph here uh refers to it as being

818
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,799
permitting the establishment and this is

819
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:22,559
to some degree not permitting the

820
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,360
establishment. It's continuing an

821
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,640
existing use. Um, so in and of itself, I

822
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,200
think that you're fairly okay on section

823
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,559
B as well. Any other discussion on that?

824
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:39,919
Concurrence

825
00:31:39,919 --> 00:31:45,990
>> disagreement.

826
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,320
» Again though, there's some splitting the

827
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,760
hair though on whether or not this is

828
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,559
considered a if if relocating the sign

829
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:00,720
is is a continuation or whether it is a

830
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,600
reestablishment. So that's that's

831
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,000
unclear.

832
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,960
Uh C is that the requested variance

833
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,919
shall not cause substantial adverse

834
00:32:11,919 --> 00:32:14,799
effect upon properties in the immediate

835
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:19,279
vicinity. Uh that is

836
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,440
pretty subjective.

837
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,720
Do we have any kind of a rule for for

838
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,200
that? I mean we had a special hearing.

839
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,000
Nobody showed up. So nobody's on fire

840
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,320
about you know moving that billboard's

841
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,760
gonna you know cause their house to

842
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,919
collapse or something gonna block the

843
00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:40,080
sun. So if you know in my mind if there

844
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,360
was a substantial adverse effect we have

845
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,760
notified everybody within 200 feet

846
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,360
>> 300 ft here they are standing in line

847
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,360
chanting. So um I don't see where that

848
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,760
is a deal breakaker. I just a question

849
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,440
there. You said that the movement of the

850
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,519
sign is towards the Milwaukee towards

851
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:02,399
the boat. So it's to the north so to

852
00:33:02,399 --> 00:33:02,880
speak.

853
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:03,600
>> Yes.

854
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,519
>> And there's no problem with for them.

855
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:07,440
>> No. No. We spoke with Robbie at the

856
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,799
shift. He's help

857
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:12,640
during go time. They may want to write.

858
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,600
>> Yeah. They're not here to express

859
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,480
anything different.

860
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:17,200
>> No problem.

861
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,159
>> Just as a point, did we were we like

862
00:33:20,159 --> 00:33:23,440
extremely restrictive in that distance

863
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,200
of notice? Did we notice a little

864
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,519
farther on either side? Uh

865
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:29,440
>> 300's what's required by the ordinance.

866
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,960
>> Yeah. So we picked right in the middle

867
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,360
of the parcel and then I will say we

868
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,919
also notified back in December the

869
00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:37,679
meeting that we ultimately cancelled. We

870
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:40,080
did send out notices for that and the

871
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,279
only one person came in asking what it

872
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:44,720
was for and we didn't hear anything

873
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,600
else. Um we canled it ultimately and

874
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,080
resent letters but at that time no one

875
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,760
else came forward with any. there's been

876
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,960
no contact, no letters, no phone calls.

877
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,000
Uh, subsection D that the conditions or

878
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,679
situations

879
00:34:01,679 --> 00:34:04,320
which necessitate you to require the

880
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,200
request the variance is not so general

881
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,200
or of such recurrent nature. Uh,

882
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,800
essentially this isn't such a common

883
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,639
request that it that it should already

884
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,839
be addressed by existing ordinance by

885
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:21,040
general regulation. Um,

886
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,800
is that an appropriate interpretation of

887
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:23,440
that?

888
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,159
>> That's spot on.

889
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:28,960
E, the requested variance shall only

890
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,800
relate to property that is under control

891
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,639
of the applicant. I think we've

892
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:36,950
established that you own the property.

893
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,359
The next three are a little bit more

894
00:34:39,359 --> 00:34:42,240
troublesome in my opinion.

895
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:44,000
F is that the requested variance shall

896
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,480
not be necessitated by any self-created

897
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,760
condition or action taken by the

898
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,720
applicant or the property owner. Um

899
00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:58,800
there is a section of the ordinance

900
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,839
which refers kind of specifically to

901
00:35:01,839 --> 00:35:05,119
something very similar to what is going

902
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:16,150
on here and that is

903
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,150
Section 401

904
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,880
of the ordinance

905
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,280
says that no nonconforming use of the

906
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,320
land, which is what this is,

907
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,880
shall be moved or in whole or in part to

908
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,480
any other portion of the land, or to a

909
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,560
different parcel

910
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,680
not occupied on the effective date of

911
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,800
this ordinance except as provided in the

912
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,560
article.

913
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,280
So what you're proposing under your

914
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,119
variance

915
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:52,000
is is kind of spot is almost directly

916
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,119
this and

917
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,359
>> explain that a little bit further.

918
00:35:55,359 --> 00:35:57,200
>> Um understanding

919
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,599
>> you are

920
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:02,320
requesting

921
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,240
you have two pieces of property that

922
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,480
you've made into one.

923
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,119
What the ordinance kind of sort of says

924
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:12,480
is that um

925
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,640
if those weren't together, if they

926
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,440
weren't already a piece of property, a

927
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:18,960
single piece of actually you've got

928
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,880
three, I think, that are merged into

929
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:21,599
one.

930
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:26,480
>> If you don't have um

931
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:26,560
uh

932
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,160
>> Oh,

933
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,320
>> fun. areas.

934
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,640
>> If if those weren't a piece of property

935
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,640
when the zoning ordinance was put into

936
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,760
place, which was 2006,

937
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,160
you can't move a non-conforming use,

938
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,720
which is what the sign is, to something

939
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,359
other than the piece of property where

940
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:47,760
it was when the ordinance was put. You

941
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,839
I'll put it, let me paint a different

942
00:36:49,839 --> 00:36:52,480
picture. Let's say that you bought a

943
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,240
piece of property um that that was a a

944
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,960
200 by 200 foot lot and it had a multif

945
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,599
family house on it. You can't buy the 20

946
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:03,680
acres behind it and throw up 100 more

947
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,480
houses on it because that wasn't part of

948
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,480
the property when the ordinance was put

949
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,400
into place. It would have to meet the

950
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,040
current ordinance now

951
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:18,079
um which a billboard there would not.

952
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:20,800
So, I'm having a little difficulty

953
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,200
getting over that hump. My reading of it

954
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,640
would be that if we allowed you to

955
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,040
relocate it, it would have to be on

956
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160
somewhere on the property that existed

957
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,119
as of 2006

958
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:35,760
>> or not at all or removed and comply

959
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,520
>> or remove which I think in a perfect

960
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,119
world that sign just disappeared one

961
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:41,040
night. It showed up in the scrapyard.

962
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,280
>> That would be great.

963
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,640
>> That's not up to us.

964
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,079
>> No, but isn't it up to you if to some

965
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:50,640
extent to say all signs in the city now

966
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,040
have to comply with

967
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,119
>> that was done in 2006.

968
00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:57,200
>> Well, why did they have to comply?

969
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,119
>> Because it hasn't been moved

970
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:00,400
>> like grandfather

971
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,640
>> grandfathered grandfather.

972
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,440
>> I wish you guys could just get rid

973
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,000
>> a lot of things.

974
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,520
>> That's what's interesting to me in this situation and that it's it's you're

975
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,000
asking for a variance

976
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,400
of something that's very out of

977
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,800
compliance. Yes. that's more so out of

978
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,640
but you could read where this says if

979
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,119
we're going to alter it then remove it

980
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,200
if it can't I mean that's to me what

981
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:23,760
question here

982
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,560
>> it's it's kind of a common thread in

983
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,200
ordinances in general that if something

984
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,960
existed before the rule it gets to stay

985
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,800
but if you want to if you want to change

986
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,280
something and it usually defines how far

987
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,760
you can change things before it has to

988
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,119
meet the ordinance now

989
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:42,880
>> but isn't that why we're asking for

990
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,000
variance to begin

991
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,920
Uh, yes. But what I'm saying is that the

992
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,480
ordinance says that that that is not

993
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,119
allowed. That that's a specific thing

994
00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:55,760
that isn't allowed to be granted a

995
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,440
variance.

996
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,920
Um, it it says

997
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:03,440
under non-conforming uses in 401, it

998
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,280
says under no conditions shall the

999
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,079
parcel be expanded and the use be

1000
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,040
expanded to a contiguous parcel, which

1001
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:16,870
is what has taken place here. continue.

1002
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,599
» It wasn't in 2006.

1003
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:21,200
>> Well, we can't go backwards no more than

1004
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,960
you guys can go backwards and make them

1005
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,280
>> correct.

1006
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,480
>> And it's not an expansion of use.

1007
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,000
That's something I'm reading in this.

1008
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,720
Right.

1009
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,280
>> It is a change. Um,

1010
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,079
>> it's a change.

1011
00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:35,520
>> That's what I'm saying. This is not a

1012
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,480
this is not at all a simple thing.

1013
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:39,599
>> No, I get that.

1014
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:41,760
>> Yeah. Again, we have to meet all eight

1015
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,000
of these points and we got through five

1016
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,599
of them pretty well. The last couple

1017
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:47,599
have have an issue.

1018
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:50,079
>> Um,

1019
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:51,520
so to some degree there's a

1020
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,599
self-created,

1021
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:55,599
you know, and the other thing that kind

1022
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:57,440
of sort of makes this a self-created

1023
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,640
situation is um if somebody else wanted

1024
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,400
to buy that and make it into a tattoo

1025
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,040
parlor, they might not have any problem

1026
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,599
with that sign being there at all.

1027
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:12,480
It's it's kind of a self-created

1028
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,240
situation because you have different

1029
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,640
plans than somebody else might have. You

1030
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,800
want to put up an additional story. You

1031
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,359
want to expand out. And um those are to

1032
00:40:23,359 --> 00:40:26,640
some degree discretionary

1033
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,520
um decisions that that you want to make

1034
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,480
more than that you have to make. They're sound business decisions. I get

1035
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,720
that. Well, we have to make it if we

1036
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:38,480
want this to be

1037
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:38,800
>> um

1038
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,040
>> successful long term and we want to be,

1039
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,400
>> you know, we want to do something that's

1040
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,920
great for the community

1041
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,839
>> and I think that we have

1042
00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:49,200
>> and so um

1043
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,359
>> I've I've been in your very position in

1044
00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:53,520
this room on this kind of topic.

1045
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,040
>> So I know

1046
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,119
>> could I just another comment? Yeah. And

1047
00:40:57,119 --> 00:40:59,520
you brought up an example which would

1048
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,599
seem to make sense. you've been this

1049
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,760
something's been agreed to based on the

1050
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,200
current curtain zoning and it makes

1051
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,079
sense but you've done something that now

1052
00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:09,760
you could see a person trying to take

1053
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,160
advantage of that whereas you're not

1054
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,200
trying to take advantage of this it's

1055
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,440
where I'm saying I get sort of where

1056
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,160
this is going and I don't see how it

1057
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,480
applies here

1058
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,800
>> the um any other

1059
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,520
>> No I'm still contemplating the things

1060
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,640
that you guys have already discussed Um,

1061
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,280
it suggests that

1062
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,960
on one hand that the the code is so

1063
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,440
strict as to say to a new owner of a

1064
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,960
piece of property that they um should

1065
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,270
have had

1066
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,440
should have known something that would

1067
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,400
be beyond their ability to know before

1068
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,200
they began making decisions about a

1069
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,359
piece of property and its use. um which

1070
00:41:59,359 --> 00:42:02,560
to me goes back to the intent and

1071
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,200
purpose of the the code when we describe

1072
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,079
it. It's um intended

1073
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:10,720
to assist the city in allowing

1074
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:14,960
businesses and and economic activity um

1075
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,720
not to tell them that we're we're not

1076
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,680
going to allow that. So there there to

1077
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,280
my mind, yes, a pooling of three or

1078
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,040
four, whatever pieces of property there

1079
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,720
were so that this business could exist

1080
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:33,680
seems to suggest that they're then not

1081
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,880
allowed to move this sign.

1082
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,240
But yet without the ability to do this

1083
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:43,440
then their ability to actually do what

1084
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,160
the intent is improve the commercial

1085
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,480
structure of the city is u is prohibited

1086
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,560
and I I don't think that's what it I

1087
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,319
don't think that's consistent with the

1088
00:42:54,319 --> 00:42:56,319
intent and the very first one that we

1089
00:42:56,319 --> 00:42:58,400
went through and just said it does meet

1090
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,960
that condition. I think they're at least

1091
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,599
in this instance at odds.

1092
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:07,920
um you can't you're telling these people

1093
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,960
they can't meet condition one

1094
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,520
because they can't meet a condition

1095
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,319
farther down that is in conflict. That's

1096
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:21,200
my sense

1097
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,800
and I I would I would suggest that

1098
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,520
um

1099
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,599
from my point of view I would be more

1100
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:31,599
concerned with meeting the intent and

1101
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:36,319
the and the purpose of the of the um

1102
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:40,560
of the billboard positions rather than

1103
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,920
trying to find reasons um not to meet

1104
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:44,640
that intent.

1105
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,319
>> Right. I thought you were going to say

1106
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:50,319
and the intent of paragraph F. Again, I

1107
00:43:50,319 --> 00:43:52,079
think paragraph F is more about trying

1108
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:54,079
to take advantage

1109
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:56,960
>> of a city zoning

1110
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,040
process by going and changing something

1111
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,000
that manipulates their property to then

1112
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,000
say, but I get to be able to change

1113
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,079
this, which is not the case. Anyway,

1114
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:10,160
it's a question of what what F really is

1115
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,160
intended, which is in line with where

1116
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,000
you're going.

1117
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,480
I I don't see where what's coming up

1118
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,000
here has to do with creating a worse

1119
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,640
situation for the city

1120
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,119
or or is really there trying to take

1121
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:26,720
advantage

1122
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:29,200
and manipulate what would be restricted

1123
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,079
by F.

1124
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:34,800
Uh, paragraph G speaks to there being no

1125
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,640
reasonable alternative location

1126
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,040
where uh, such a location would

1127
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,920
eliminate the need for the variance

1128
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,880
or reduce the extent of the conditions

1129
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,079
necessitating that. Uh we know that

1130
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:51,760
relocation

1131
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,680
would reduce the separation

1132
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,319
uh deficiency but it wouldn't eliminate

1133
00:44:58,319 --> 00:45:01,440
it and it's not practical to eliminate

1134
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:07,430
it given the size of the property.

1135
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,599
Any comments on that?

1136
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:13,839
I I think there does need to be a

1137
00:45:13,839 --> 00:45:17,359
recognition that if it stayed as it is

1138
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:19,520
that there's no need for necessitating a

1139
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,040
variance at all.

1140
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,200
>> But the the condition here is like the

1141
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,000
75 more years on some sort of lease to

1142
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:28,960
somebody that says

1143
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:29,920
>> that's forever.

1144
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,000
>> It's a forever lease on this piece of

1145
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,240
property.

1146
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:36,720
That sounds like something that was in

1147
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:38,720
it

1148
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,160
created before this zoning intent was

1149
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:47,119
put together. That is nuts. Pardon my

1150
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:49,040
lack of proper definition, but yeah,

1151
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,720
what was the point of this forever thing

1152
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,359
on a billboard?

1153
00:45:53,359 --> 00:45:55,440
That almost seems like something we

1154
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,880
should be able to bypass.

1155
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,800
>> If you own the billboard, it's very

1156
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,040
apparent why they want it that way.

1157
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,280
>> Mr. Chairman, can I offer some context

1158
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,280
to this condition? Maybe.

1159
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,960
>> So,

1160
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,800
the condition is intending to get at is

1161
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,800
there a location on the property that

1162
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,160
would meet the separation requirements?

1163
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,680
That's probably something the applicant

1164
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,280
can answer for you. So, is there a

1165
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,560
location on the property that would meet

1166
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,440
the 660 ft separation?

1167
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,440
>> No, we don't own it far enough. We would

1168
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,240
be into the ship's property,

1169
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:28,800
>> right? There is there is no alternate

1170
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,960
location

1171
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,800
>> and not in the other direction.

1172
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,040
>> If if they if they move it an inch from

1173
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,040
where it is now, it is it is less

1174
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,599
permissible than what they're proposing.

1175
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:48,079
The only the only equally permissible

1176
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:50,480
relocation is leaving it where it is

1177
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,400
because then it's not really moved at

1178
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,480
all.

1179
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,000
they would, you know, if if they

1180
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,240
withdrew the the second variance

1181
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:00,160
requirement,

1182
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,280
then they would remain in compliance as

1183
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:09,589
a non-conforming pre-existing structure.

1184
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:11,920
» And is it's also a case where this is

1185
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,839
restricted to your property because

1186
00:47:13,839 --> 00:47:16,079
that's where the perpetual lease is

1187
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:18,880
attached. Otherwise, this wouldn't be

1188
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,920
this problem.

1189
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,079
finally that the requested variance is

1190
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:25,599
the minimum variance that would make

1191
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:28,160
possible the reasonable use of the land.

1192
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,440
I don't think there's a lot of debate on

1193
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,640
that particular point

1194
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,800
uh as far as spacing goes because it is

1195
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,359
an increase in the spacing although it's

1196
00:47:39,359 --> 00:47:40,960
not

1197
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,520
in compliance. How far from the north

1198
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,400
property line

1199
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,520
toward the Milwaukee is this proposed to

1200
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:49,839
be?

1201
00:47:49,839 --> 00:47:51,920
>> 15 ft.

1202
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,800
>> Could be farther. I I don't I wasn't

1203
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,560
exactly sure where their property line

1204
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,319
was. I don't He's got a sign up there.

1205
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:01,760
So, I measured from where his sign is

1206
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,760
above the parking and I think that's

1207
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,520
moving close to the property line. So, I

1208
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,680
measured from that back and where we

1209
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:14,150
wanted to put it was 15 ft.

1210
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,040
So I think that we need to determine

1211
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,119
first whether we find their variance

1212
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:21,040
application meets all eight of these

1213
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:26,160
points or if there is reservation

1214
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,160
or hesitation about them

1215
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,160
about any of this being applicable to to

1216
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,160
this situation.

1217
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,280
So we agree that G doesn't matter here.

1218
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,599
There is no So it does meet G.

1219
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:43,119
>> That could certainly be your vote.

1220
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:45,839
>> Yeah. Okay. I'm just Well, we haven't

1221
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:47,440
decided that yet.

1222
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,480
>> Okay.

1223
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,640
>> Is there discussion on anybody having a

1224
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,319
particular issue with any of the eight

1225
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:54,800
points?

1226
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,640
>> Just H. I question the requested

1227
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,520
variance is a minimum variance.

1228
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,720
>> I'm still drawn back to F.

1229
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,480
Yeah, I I agree. That's the only one

1230
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,200
that seems to be an issue that there's a

1231
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,839
self-created condition. Moving the sign

1232
00:49:09,839 --> 00:49:11,839
is a voluntary minimum

1233
00:49:11,839 --> 00:49:13,680
>> to desire.

1234
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,960
Um it is something that's

1235
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,200
requested

1236
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,280
uh because they have plans for the

1237
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,880
property uh that that cannot

1238
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,440
both be met and satisfy the ordinance at

1239
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,200
the same time.

1240
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,119
>> Speak to why we combine those properties

1241
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:32,000
a second. Sure.

1242
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,760
>> We combined them because consumers

1243
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,559
energy sort of demanded.

1244
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:38,480
We couldn't keep them separate. I'm just

1245
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:39,920
talking about I remember going through

1246
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,000
this. We couldn't keep them separate

1247
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,079
because they would have required us to

1248
00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:47,040
have three separate polls down there.

1249
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,440
So, you would have had three telephone

1250
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,200
poles go down the line versus us

1251
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,119
combining the property at our expense

1252
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:57,119
and coming to you guys to just put one

1253
00:49:57,119 --> 00:49:58,800
pole in because we were aesthetically

1254
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,720
trying to make this. I mean, if you got

1255
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:02,400
three poles going down the road, that's

1256
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,800
just it's ridiculous. They won't bury

1257
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:05,440
the line,

1258
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:05,839
>> right?

1259
00:50:05,839 --> 00:50:07,359
>> And so they said, "Well, the only way we

1260
00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:09,040
can get around you guys doing this is to

1261
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,240
combine the property,

1262
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:10,800
>> right?

1263
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,800
>> We can build one place. You can have one

1264
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,200
pole. This is what you can do, right?

1265
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,000
>> And they're still giving us a little bit

1266
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,280
is still giving us a little bit of

1267
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,680
runaround about enough power down there

1268
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:22,800
with one pole.

1269
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,000
>> I I understand your position where I'm I

1270
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,160
have a project. It took me two years to

1271
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,319
get three-phase power in. Yeah. Yeah.

1272
00:50:30,319 --> 00:50:31,520
>> They just didn't want to do it.

1273
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,520
>> So, when you're talking about intent, it

1274
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,520
wasn't our intent to combine the

1275
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,119
properties to move a sign because we had

1276
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,599
no idea we were going to I had no clue

1277
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:41,359
that weren't going to be as successful

1278
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:44,480
as I'm really happy that it has been and

1279
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,800
the city loves it, but we had no clue

1280
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:51,119
that we better add on to this thing or

1281
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:54,720
that. So, um the intent was nothing to

1282
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:55,760
do with this,

1283
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,760
>> right?

1284
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,400
Um, we still though have to dot eight

1285
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,319
I's

1286
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:06,720
>> and and I keep going back to F,

1287
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:08,880
which is that is that consolidating the

1288
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,280
properties and moving the sign to begin

1289
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,400
with is is voluntary. That somebody else

1290
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,000
that was using the property for a

1291
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,800
different purpose might not even care or

1292
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:25,119
even notice that sign is there. Um, is that

1293
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:28,079
is my definition of self-created in that

1294
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:29,680
aspect

1295
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,680
uh legitimate

1296
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,400
or am I stretching a definition? Well,

1297
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:35,839
obviously the board is is responsible

1298
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:37,599
for finding the facts, but I'll add some

1299
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:40,160
context to self-created. It it's it's

1300
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,880
trying to to flesh out variance requests

1301
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,960
that are based on conditions that are

1302
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,400
inherent in the land or something that's

1303
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:54,150
outside of the applicant's control.

1304
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,319
Okay.

1305
00:51:56,319 --> 00:51:59,920
>> And and I'm again inclined to think that

1306
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:01,599
um

1307
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:04,160
the applicants have

1308
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,240
made an effort to consolidate some

1309
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,680
properties to build a business. Business

1310
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,920
is very consistent with the intent of

1311
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:16,400
the ordinance. Um if anyone

1312
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:21,520
would have been responsible for this um

1313
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,359
this particular section you're finding

1314
00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:25,359
difficult, it would have been a previous

1315
00:52:25,359 --> 00:52:28,880
owner who um made decisions on a small

1316
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,359
piece of property to allow a a lease

1317
00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:34,319
that lasts forever. And that that

1318
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:36,079
decision is not one you have control

1319
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:39,359
over. Um,

1320
00:52:39,359 --> 00:52:42,240
I I'm I'm inclined to think that this

1321
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:44,720
would not prevent me from voting that

1322
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,040
these aid are met,

1323
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,040
then we still have special use or

1324
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,000
special conditions to consider. But if

1325
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,400
it's if that is not consistent with

1326
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,400
everyone else's thinking, we're at a

1327
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,000
point now where we probably need to make

1328
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:04,069
some take some actions to vote.

1329
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:06,079
And I think we would be we would be

1330
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:08,800
calling the question on each of these uh

1331
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,440
basic conditions one by one to see what

1332
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:17,190
the will of the organization is.

1333
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:18,880
Now, if that requires someone to call

1334
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,559
that question, I would I would so call

1335
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:24,559
that that we

1336
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:27,680
vote on each of these basic conditions

1337
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,000
individually to see if we all agree that

1338
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,359
they're met

1339
00:53:31,359 --> 00:53:33,119
>> in the form of a straw poll

1340
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:35,760
>> in and we can do that as a straw poll.

1341
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,480
That's fine.

1342
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,160
That would that would allow us then to

1343
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,079
continue some serious discussion. I

1344
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:43,440
agree.

1345
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,319
So you want them you want them uh pulled

1346
00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:47,359
one by one?

1347
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:48,960
>> Yeah, let us pull them one by one and

1348
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,800
see what the will of the four votes are.

1349
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:51,599
>> Been called.

1350
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:55,030
>> All right.

1351
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,680
So basic condition one that the

1352
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,119
ordinance variance is not contrary to

1353
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:02,800
the public interest or intent and

1354
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,960
purpose of the ordinance. All those in

1355
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,480
favor?

1356
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,680
>> I.

1357
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,960
>> Any opposed?

1358
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,880
B. The requested variance shall not

1359
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,559
permit the establishment within a

1360
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:16,960
district of any use which is not

1361
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,960
permitted by right within that zone

1362
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,480
district

1363
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,640
or any use or dimensional variance for

1364
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,200
which a special land use permit is

1365
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,960
required. We allowed to have any

1366
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:28,559
discussion right in this point or not?

1367
00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:30,079
>> Oh absolutely. Yep. The straw port is

1368
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:32,720
just an formal poll so you guys can kind

1369
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,720
of get an idea of where you're

1370
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:37,280
>> we do have to keep in mind that that

1371
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,520
this use is not permitted by right in

1372
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,280
that district.

1373
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,359
>> The billboard is not allowed at all in

1374
00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:49,280
the waterfront district.

1375
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,680
>> And how many are in that district?

1376
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,200
>> Those are pre-existing.

1377
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,079
>> Yeah, but there's already how

1378
00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:57,680
>> this particular billboard is

1379
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,839
pre-existing. it exists as as a as a

1380
00:55:01,839 --> 00:55:03,119
grandfathered billboard.

1381
00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:04,800
>> Yeah. Then we have the question of

1382
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,430
whether or not moving it

1383
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,240
retains its classification as

1384
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:16,160
grandfathered once it's moved and if

1385
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,160
they in fact come back with a a change

1386
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,079
of the type of the billboard, the size

1387
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:24,160
of the billboard,

1388
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,160
anything of that nature. If we do get

1389
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:30,079
into a new situation

1390
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:32,400
of of setback,

1391
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,640
um I guess what we would be doing at a

1392
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,760
certain point would be

1393
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:42,319
a conditional approval subject to the

1394
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:45,040
review or recommendation of the zoning

1395
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,319
administrator on those types of items as

1396
00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:52,000
to whether or not once it is

1397
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,559
in addition to the to the I guess what

1398
00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:56,160
I'm getting as in addition to the

1399
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,240
spacing issue, there's a whole gamut of

1400
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:01,920
issues

1401
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,119
that relate to use, moving it to a

1402
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:07,599
property that it wasn't part of prior to

1403
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:09,040
the effective date of the zoning

1404
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,559
ordinance and and potentially some or

1405
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:16,240
all of the sign being in the setback. um

1406
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:20,480
and the nature of the sign, its size,

1407
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,280
you know, whether there's an an effort

1408
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,040
made to change the character of the

1409
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,160
sign, things of that nature. So I I

1410
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:34,160
there's some issues in B

1411
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,720
that in my mind

1412
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:38,319
are going to prevent me from being able

1413
00:56:38,319 --> 00:56:40,079
to give it a straight up or down without

1414
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:43,040
some kind of well then I'd refer you to

1415
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,400
the the the section that describes our

1416
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,119
duties and responsibilities and rules

1417
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:53,119
and under rules the board that is us may

1418
00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:55,200
specify in writing such conditions

1419
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,000
regarding character location and other

1420
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,880
features that will in its judgment s

1421
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,119
secure the objectives and purpose of

1422
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:05,760
this ordinance and any breach of those

1423
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,079
conditions shall automatically

1424
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:14,000
invalidate any permitted uh use or any permitted grant any permit granted.

1425
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,440
In other words, we can say

1426
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,960
in granting the variance that it is

1427
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:22,799
>> subject to further review of the zoning.

1428
00:57:22,799 --> 00:57:25,119
>> Well, and and within these specified

1429
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:27,680
conditions. That is one of our powers.

1430
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,559
We can do that. Um, Mr. Chairman, I

1431
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:32,079
apologize for interrupting again. You

1432
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:34,880
certainly can. Another option for the

1433
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,880
board is to table the application

1434
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,640
pending the zoning administrator's

1435
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,599
determination as to the use status.

1436
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:46,480
because that that unsettles me. Um

1437
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,559
>> I'm just presenting that as an option to

1438
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:48,799
you,

1439
00:57:48,799 --> 00:57:50,400
>> right?

1440
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,480
Um I mean I realize you want to get on

1441
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,240
with plans.

1442
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,319
Um

1443
00:57:56,319 --> 00:57:57,839
>> you also probably don't want to start

1444
00:57:57,839 --> 00:57:59,359
tearing the roof off the building in the

1445
00:57:59,359 --> 00:58:00,720
middle of tourist season either.

1446
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:01,200
>> No.

1447
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,079
>> Um

1448
00:58:04,079 --> 00:58:07,040
but I I do have concerns about about use

1449
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,599
outside of this variance. Um

1450
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:13,119
but then again they still have to come

1451
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:16,000
back for an actual

1452
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,000
application for the sign itself.

1453
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,000
Correct.

1454
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,920
We would only be addressing the issue of

1455
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,000
the variance

1456
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,160
as it relates to the location and not

1457
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:27,040
the use.

1458
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,040
>> Correct. Yes. You can evaluate the

1459
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,040
variance application on its face.

1460
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,390
>> Okay.

1461
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,359
So then we we can we can we can address

1462
00:58:37,359 --> 00:58:40,480
the ordinance separation issue only and

1463
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,359
for now not have to deal with uses past,

1464
00:58:43,359 --> 00:58:49,190
present or future.

1465
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,960
Uh

1466
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,680
E

1467
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,880
I think back to C. I think we've already

1468
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,040
kind of come to an agreement that there

1469
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,040
was no public input on this. Nobody's

1470
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,040
upset about it. there there doesn't

1471
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,640
appear to be any kind of an adverse

1472
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,240
effect.

1473
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,880
D uh the conditions

1474
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,480
are not so general that uh that they

1475
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:13,920
should be controlled by another section

1476
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,240
of the ordinance which we've agreed to

1477
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,960
that it the property is clearly under

1478
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,040
your control. There isn't an issue

1479
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:22,640
there.

1480
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,000
Um I appear to be in the minority on

1481
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,400
whether this is self-created.

1482
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,240
Um

1483
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,040
although again in retrospect looking at

1484
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,200
it purely from the standpoint of the

1485
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,920
separation it is an improvement over the

1486
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:39,599
existing status quo

1487
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:40,000
>> exactly

1488
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,549
>> regardless of the use

1489
00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:45,839
G that there's no reasonable

1490
00:59:45,839 --> 00:59:48,480
alternative. This appears to be unless

1491
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,359
you've got a a property stretcher there

1492
00:59:51,359 --> 00:59:54,319
isn't a way to to do that and H kind of

1493
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:58,640
ties into the same thing. So

1494
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,440
if we

1495
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,720
agree that those eight are covered,

1496
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,640
not a foregone conclusion, but if we're

1497
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,760
leaning that direction, then

1498
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,559
either one of the following two have to

1499
01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:13,280
be met as well.

1500
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,400
>> Marty, there's three technically

1501
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:17,920
>> three technical

1502
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,680
>> three special conditions. These were the

1503
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,160
two that the applicant checked on the

1504
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,119
application.

1505
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:24,799
>> Okay.

1506
01:00:24,799 --> 01:00:27,359
as um

1507
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:29,920
meeting that. But these are the

1508
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:35,430
>> Oh, okay. I see see here now. So,

1509
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,240
we have to agree that

1510
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,720
any one of the following three have to

1511
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,280
be met where there are practical

1512
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,520
difficulties which which prevent full

1513
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:47,119
compliance.

1514
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:49,599
that the difficulty shall be evaluated

1515
01:00:49,599 --> 01:00:52,559
in terms of the use of a particular

1516
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:54,960
parcel of land.

1517
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,960
And and it it lays out a couple things.

1518
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,079
It says certain facts don't don't weigh

1519
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:08,309
or con contribute to that consideration.

1520
01:01:08,319 --> 01:01:11,839
There are practical difficulties

1521
01:01:11,839 --> 01:01:13,599
with

1522
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:15,520
uh

1523
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,920
preventful compliance just because there

1524
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,119
isn't enough land to get you 660 ft

1525
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:29,109
away.

1526
01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:30,799
So

1527
01:01:30,799 --> 01:01:33,200
we may be able if we were in agreement

1528
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,319
that the first eight apply, we may be

1529
01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:39,119
able to use that section as as one of

1530
01:01:39,119 --> 01:01:43,680
the three to get us over that hump.

1531
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,240
The second potential additional

1532
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,640
condition is that where there are

1533
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,160
exceptional or extraordinary

1534
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,839
circumstances or physical conditions and

1535
01:01:53,839 --> 01:01:58,240
again this kind of fits in that box

1536
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,599
and see where the variation is necessary

1537
01:02:01,599 --> 01:02:03,680
for the preservation of a substantial

1538
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:07,040
property right.

1539
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,760
That one I'm not sure applies because

1540
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,319
nobody else in that district has the

1541
01:02:12,319 --> 01:02:14,880
right to put up a billboard under the

1542
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,760
current zoning ordinance.

1543
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,520
So if we come to the conclusion that it

1544
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,880
does meet the first eight

1545
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:29,440
and that either A or B of the following

1546
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,400
special conditions apply,

1547
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,799
we may be able to grant the variance

1548
01:02:36,799 --> 01:02:41,109
on an interim basis

1549
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:44,480
subject to some further review.

1550
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,240
>> Well, an in application to actually do

1551
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,000
the work. We have not seen the

1552
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:48,880
application,

1553
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,240
>> right? So, if there are clear conditions

1554
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,160
like

1555
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,799
um conditioned on the applicant entering

1556
01:02:56,799 --> 01:02:58,640
into a new lease, that would be

1557
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,240
appropriate.

1558
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,160
an interim decision with a lot of

1559
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:03,920
flexibility that you may later change

1560
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,400
it. It's probably not it's not

1561
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,680
advisable. Um it just leads to too much

1562
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,000
uncertainty. If there are outstanding

1563
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,599
items that the board wants additional

1564
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:15,440
information on, the best option is to

1565
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,240
table it.

1566
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:23,680
I I see a myriad of potential

1567
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,319
little side lanes here, you know, out

1568
01:03:26,319 --> 01:03:30,960
they're outside of the of of the the the

1569
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,440
dimensional variance for separation,

1570
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,200
more more and more in use situations.

1571
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,960
Um,

1572
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,559
I'm concerned about the

1573
01:03:42,559 --> 01:03:47,280
expansion of a non-conforming use to an adjacent piece of property because

1574
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,359
there appears to be pretty much a

1575
01:03:49,359 --> 01:03:51,920
prohibition on that in the ordinance.

1576
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,599
Um,

1577
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:55,599
and it it makes it pretty clear in a

1578
01:03:55,599 --> 01:03:58,400
couple of places to me to my reading.

1579
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,440
And I' I'd like to take Paul's read on

1580
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,880
it, but I I I have trouble with it.

1581
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,920
Well, I I think you've already told us

1582
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,839
this is now one parcel of land.

1583
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:10,720
>> It is.

1584
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:15,039
now. It is. Um and we are now

1585
01:04:15,039 --> 01:04:19,750
discussing um

1586
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,760
the practical difficulties shall be

1587
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,920
evaluated in terms of the use of a

1588
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,200
particular parcel of land. That's pretty

1589
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:28,960
straightforward to me. I I feel that

1590
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,240
we're talking we're not talking about um

1591
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,920
what may constrict um three or four

1592
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,280
separate pieces of property. We're

1593
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,760
talking about a parcel of land that is

1594
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:44,559
now this particular business. Um, and

1595
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:49,920
I'm not sure that um

1596
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,119
that I find anything

1597
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:55,599
that that again would cause me to think

1598
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:58,640
that this isn't a reasonable variance if

1599
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,119
it meets the other conditions at the

1600
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:03,760
time that the work is done, the setback

1601
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,680
issues and all of the other things. And

1602
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:07,599
the only reason they say that is because

1603
01:05:07,599 --> 01:05:09,839
they they have not yet applied to do the

1604
01:05:09,839 --> 01:05:11,440
work and have it presented something for

1605
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,760
you to decide on as the administrator.

1606
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,280
Now would would that change if we were

1607
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:24,000
to table this and allow them the time to

1608
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:29,200
prepare and with you um their proposal

1609
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,280
so that you can evaluate it for its

1610
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,720
fitness for this? I wouldn't be able to

1611
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:36,000
grant anything,

1612
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:36,720
>> right?

1613
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,880
>> So, it would just be a

1614
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:40,240
>> it would be a review and it would come

1615
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:40,720
back.

1616
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,799
>> I could do a review. Yeah.

1617
01:05:42,799 --> 01:05:45,599
>> But you would do a review at such point

1618
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:47,680
and provide us with a report of things

1619
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,039
that would Okay.

1620
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:53,280
>> And that's within your scope of

1621
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,960
authority, I think, as I read this. Um,

1622
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,920
>> did you read section 401?

1623
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:04,309
>> Section 401. Go ahead.

1624
01:06:04,319 --> 01:06:07,829
Oh yeah,

1625
01:06:07,839 --> 01:06:11,839
» me that's a pretty much a prohibition

1626
01:06:11,839 --> 01:06:16,240
because it it specifies the the date of

1627
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:31,670
the ordinance as being

1628
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:33,440
in In my mind, if I read that

1629
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,280
charitably,

1630
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,000
the billboard could be moved on the

1631
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,760
property as it existed at that time

1632
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,079
without violating the intent of that

1633
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,240
section. Moving it to the adjacent

1634
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,480
property that was added to the parcel in

1635
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,359
the last two years. To me, that that

1636
01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:54,000
gives me heartburn if we're supposed to

1637
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,960
be following the ordinance, including

1638
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,839
it's that's that's intent to me. And you

1639
01:06:59,839 --> 01:07:01,440
see that the same way as the

1640
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:02,960
administrator?

1641
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,200
>> Um I would look at it separately and

1642
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,599
provide a recommendation. Probably this

1643
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:10,960
came forward before I started. I do want

1644
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,480
to express that also. The only reason um

1645
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,039
I think I'm still discussing this at

1646
01:07:17,039 --> 01:07:19,920
this point is um we have a petitioner

1647
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,440
here who's

1648
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:23,119
>> wants to understand what can and can't

1649
01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:26,160
be done with that piece of property. And

1650
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:30,079
if this is overriding any of our

1651
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:32,720
decisions about variance, uh we need to

1652
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,880
understand and know that and as the

1653
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,359
administrator, you would be at least in

1654
01:07:37,359 --> 01:07:41,119
better position to give us that opinion

1655
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:43,520
at the time that you review.

1656
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:48,319
>> I do think it needs more review.

1657
01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:51,039
Um it's this is far from being a a

1658
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:53,760
simple easy open and shut kind of thing.

1659
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,000
I think getting rid of the setback is a

1660
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,160
big step forward

1661
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,079
and I think there's a good case to be

1662
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:03,359
made that the separation distances have

1663
01:08:03,359 --> 01:08:06,160
increased between billboards,

1664
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,359
but the the relocating part of it is is

1665
01:08:09,359 --> 01:08:11,760
worrisome to me.

1666
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,839
And I think if we're go I think without

1667
01:08:13,839 --> 01:08:16,239
knowing what what exactly is going to be

1668
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:19,839
moved, what the new thing is that

1669
01:08:19,839 --> 01:08:22,080
creating a variance for it to be there

1670
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,560
is pre to use your word premature.

1671
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,480
>> Yeah. And what I'm concerned to know is

1672
01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:29,920
although most of this section is

1673
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,239
referring to structures

1674
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:34,799
um

1675
01:08:34,799 --> 01:08:36,719
and and I understand that why that would

1676
01:08:36,719 --> 01:08:38,960
be a prohibition that a structure would

1677
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:40,880
be moved within a parcel and so on

1678
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:42,560
because we've all had that kind of

1679
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:43,359
discussion.

1680
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:45,279
>> Billboard is a structure

1681
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:48,080
>> is it? It has its own separate section

1682
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,319
of the code and its own separate rules

1683
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:53,679
>> as a use.

1684
01:08:53,679 --> 01:08:57,040
>> As a as a use,

1685
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,040
>> it's it's defined as anything on the

1686
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:10,550
ground. Well, I understand that.

1687
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,600
» And yes, we do know that no matter what

1688
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,000
happens, that particular billboard would

1689
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,159
not be conforming no matter what what's

1690
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:18,960
agreed to,

1691
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,440
>> right? because the only way to bring it

1692
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:23,040
into

1693
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,759
conformance would be for it to disappear

1694
01:09:25,759 --> 01:09:27,759
>> or to stay exactly where it is and we're

1695
01:09:27,759 --> 01:09:30,400
back to this same dilemma that you're

1696
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:36,870
apparently faced with.

1697
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,600
So I I think that I for one need to see

1698
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,279
a little bit more from Lamar and what

1699
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,679
they would what they would be replacing

1700
01:09:43,679 --> 01:09:44,799
it with

1701
01:09:44,799 --> 01:09:47,359
>> exactly what's there.

1702
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:49,040
>> That's what they told me. That's what we

1703
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:49,520
were asking.

1704
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,510
>> We don't know the orientation.

1705
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,120
» There's some things we don't know.

1706
01:09:55,120 --> 01:10:00,159
>> Well, you can you not um

1707
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:05,840
can you not do this variance in based on

1708
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:07,520
the fact that it would stay exactly the

1709
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,440
way it is? The orientation is stay the

1710
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:13,679
same. The sign size stay the same.

1711
01:10:13,679 --> 01:10:15,840
>> I think you're right. We can in fact

1712
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,640
specify the the specific things that

1713
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:20,239
have to be met before it would be

1714
01:10:20,239 --> 01:10:21,199
allowed to happen.

1715
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:23,840
>> The only reason we didn't apply for the

1716
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,800
permit is because that would be assuming

1717
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:28,800
to me I would be making the assumption

1718
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,480
that you would approve it. So I wouldn't

1719
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:32,560
apply for the permit before you gave the

1720
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:33,120
approval.

1721
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,199
>> Understood.

1722
01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:37,280
>> So I thought I was following this

1723
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:38,960
sequentially what you would need me to

1724
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,280
do.

1725
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,920
>> Yeah.

1726
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:46,480
I'm I'm inclined to heir on the side of

1727
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:49,679
caution with council's advice to table

1728
01:10:49,679 --> 01:10:51,600
it for them to review it.

1729
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,960
>> I wouldn't oppose that at all. I just um

1730
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,199
troubles me that

1731
01:10:57,199 --> 01:11:01,280
a decision that was made to grant a

1732
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,960
extraordinary perpetual lease

1733
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:11,199
um is now this person's burden. Um, and

1734
01:11:11,199 --> 01:11:15,040
I'm not sure how fair I feel that is,

1735
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,040
which is certainly one of the underlying

1736
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:18,800
things we're trying to accomplish, some

1737
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,360
fairness. Um, but yeah, you're right. We

1738
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,040
need probably a little better counsel on

1739
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,920
this, a little more um review and

1740
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,520
understanding on whether or not this

1741
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:33,120
non-conforming structure issue is going

1742
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,000
to bar them from making this move.

1743
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,000
And could I dovetail because that you

1744
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:39,440
touched on a concern I have and that's

1745
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:41,199
the notion of when the zoning ordinance

1746
01:11:41,199 --> 01:11:43,440
becomes effective there's a a whole host

1747
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:46,320
of grandfathered property. Is there some

1748
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,560
administrative procedure about how that

1749
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:49,920
is dealt with?

1750
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,239
>> Because it would seem to me if something

1751
01:11:52,239 --> 01:11:54,880
does not fit current ordinance the

1752
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,840
inclination would always be to correct

1753
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,960
it in this case would probably be remove

1754
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,480
it completely. But there's this the

1755
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:06,400
whole situation we've all talked about

1756
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,159
this is grandfathered in. It's an

1757
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:12,000
accepted piece of construction as it is.

1758
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,159
There's an interest to move it. Is there

1759
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:16,560
any procedures about how you deal with

1760
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,960
things that are grandfathered in that

1761
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,320
are express what is best for the comm or

1762
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:23,840
how we should direct this towards the

1763
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:25,840
community because I'm I'm just off a

1764
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,000
judgment. Get rid of it or move it. I

1765
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,159
>> I suspect that that's the reason there's

1766
01:12:30,159 --> 01:12:32,719
a zoning board of appeals. Yes, make a

1767
01:12:32,719 --> 01:12:34,880
judgment.

1768
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:35,520
>> There we are.

1769
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,400
>> There there is a a stated

1770
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,800
um

1771
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:45,199
section in the ordinance that basically

1772
01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:48,800
the essence of it is billboards serve a

1773
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,120
limited public benefit.

1774
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:53,199
They they they can direct people to

1775
01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:56,320
things. Uh they can give information.

1776
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,960
They're of value to motorists to a

1777
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,560
certain point. A few is fine. One on

1778
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,960
every street corner. Triple stack

1779
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,520
double-sided blinking maybe not so much

1780
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:08,719
because at a certain point they're

1781
01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:09,760
distraction.

1782
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,360
>> And at this point that one doesn't

1783
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:14,080
comply with the intended positioning of

1784
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:16,800
>> So the ordinance itself

1785
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,000
in 2006 limited the number of billboards

1786
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,239
to 10.

1787
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:25,440
By my count we now have 15.

1788
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:29,920
So somehow some of them creeped in. Um,

1789
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:33,600
so to answer your question about

1790
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,880
what does the ordinance intend, what's

1791
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:44,800
the inference of the ordinance, etc., Um, we're already past the point of

1792
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:49,120
what the ordinance considers to be, you

1793
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:53,040
know, if if the ordinance would infer

1794
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:54,480
that it would be in the city's interest

1795
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:56,560
for this to be gone, it's in excess of

1796
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:58,560
the limit. It doesn't. Yeah.

1797
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,520
From Lamar's standpoint, that billboard

1798
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,120
ain't going anywhere unless it's

1799
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:06,640
replaced by similar, not even similar,

1800
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,520
better. Um, from your standpoint, you

1801
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:11,120
want it gone, too.

1802
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:12,159
>> So,

1803
01:14:12,159 --> 01:14:15,920
>> Oh, I know. Um,

1804
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:17,520
>> if we can't have it gone, moving it at

1805
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,760
least allows us to build our business.

1806
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,600
>> Understood.

1807
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,199
>> So, we have several

1808
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:28,560
converging issues here. Okay.

1809
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,000
>> Um,

1810
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,159
>> one other that hasn't been discussed is

1811
01:14:32,159 --> 01:14:34,239
that mot the movement down towards the

1812
01:14:34,239 --> 01:14:35,679
Milwaukee. I mean, the whole point of

1813
01:14:35,679 --> 01:14:37,760
that boat and that display, that sort of

1814
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,480
museum piece is you see it. I just

1815
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:42,159
wonder what happens when they suddenly

1816
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:44,719
they have a massive billboard down in

1817
01:14:44,719 --> 01:14:46,320
front that isn't about their

1818
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:47,199
establishment.

1819
01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:48,640
>> No, they're fine with it.

1820
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:49,920
>> They've said they're fine.

1821
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,000
>> I can get Robbie. We can get Robbie to

1822
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,840
come in here because we talked about

1823
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,840
trying to move it onto his property, me

1824
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,400
doing a donation of some sort to buy a

1825
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,239
chunk of his property to actually get it

1826
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:04,159
to 660 ft. But if we did that, then

1827
01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:05,600
you're getting too close to those

1828
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,719
condos. You guys are really you really

1829
01:15:08,719 --> 01:15:11,120
messed up here with the 660 ft because

1830
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,400
if you really get it 660 ft, you're in

1831
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:16,239
the you're you're getting so close to

1832
01:15:16,239 --> 01:15:17,760
those condos that the condo owners

1833
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:18,800
aren't going to want that,

1834
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:19,920
>> right?

1835
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:24,159
So we we tried to get it as far away

1836
01:15:24,159 --> 01:15:26,640
into close to 660. We were open we could

1837
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,880
get to 660. Come to you guys and say

1838
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:30,800
okay now we're making it because that

1839
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:35,910
would have made it easier for you.

1840
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:37,120
» How do we want to address this

1841
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:38,000
gentleman?

1842
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:39,840
>> Mr. Chair, can I add something?

1843
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:40,880
>> Absolutely.

1844
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:43,120
>> Prior to Maddie

1845
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:44,640
let me introduce myself. I'm the

1846
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:45,840
building official and community

1847
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,600
development director. I took the

1848
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,520
original application and um I want to

1849
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,480
address a couple things that didn't come

1850
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:56,640
up tonight that just popped in my head

1851
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,440
that may be relevant. One is I checked

1852
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:02,239
with the state of Michigan MDOT

1853
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:06,320
when this request came in to ask if they

1854
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,000
determine their distance. They have a

1855
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,640
distance as well. Is it on the same side

1856
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,640
of the street or adjacent to ours is we

1857
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:16,320
measure from the closest billboard

1858
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:19,760
either side of the road. They do not. If

1859
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,640
this billboard is granted to move, they

1860
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,040
will permit it. That's what the lady at

1861
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,480
whom told me on the phone. Whether

1862
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:30,960
that's relevant to you folks or not, I

1863
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,199
just remembered I didn't share that with

1864
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:37,840
anybody. Um the other question I asked

1865
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,480
her was exactly what the chairman

1866
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:43,360
struggling with. If it's moved, is it a

1867
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,320
new sign or an existing sign?

1868
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,080
That was the very first place that I

1869
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,840
went with this in my brain. And she

1870
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,560
said, "We don't care.

1871
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,040
We're going to write a new permit. If

1872
01:16:57,040 --> 01:17:00,400
you allow this structure to be moved, if

1873
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,320
it's a new structure, if it's the same

1874
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:04,640
structure, irrelevant to them."

1875
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,719
>> So, their position was we need to make

1876
01:17:06,719 --> 01:17:08,320
that determination locally.

1877
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:11,040
>> You need to decide if you're going to

1878
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:15,679
allow it to be moved. They're going to issue a permit. if it

1879
01:17:15,679 --> 01:17:17,760
is

1880
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:18,640
>> um

1881
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,360
>> she didn't really have care one way or

1882
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:25,600
the other if it was

1883
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:27,120
different or saying

1884
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,280
>> do we know when that sign was was put

1885
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:30,960
up.

1886
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,920
Has anybody heard that number

1887
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:35,840
>> would have been it was when Little

1888
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,110
Caesars was there? So

1889
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:42,080
» remember the date

1890
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,560
>> because the the e the easement is dated

1891
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,080
2006.

1892
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:47,679
>> I think that's

1893
01:17:47,679 --> 01:17:50,080
>> but I'm not clear I'm not clear if they

1894
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,040
created the easement 20 years after the

1895
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:54,000
sign was built.

1896
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,080
>> No, it was created for that sign.

1897
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:57,440
>> For that sign? Yes.

1898
01:17:57,440 --> 01:18:00,719
>> So I was going to say 2004, but it might

1899
01:18:00,719 --> 01:18:02,480
be 2006

1900
01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:07,520
>> because the easement has a date on it of

1901
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:10,400
You might want to make a note of this.

1902
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,120
The date on the easement is September of

1903
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,870
2006.

1904
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,080
The ordinance

1905
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:23,520
>> was effective February of 2006.

1906
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:28,229
So it is

1907
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:29,920
» So hold on.

1908
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:31,920
>> Yes, that's what I just said. I'm not

1909
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:33,440
going to editorialize.

1910
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:33,840
>> Yeah.

1911
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:35,520
>> I just Okay. Yes.

1912
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:36,640
>> File that away.

1913
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:37,199
>> Yep.

1914
01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:38,080
>> So, I don't know if you

1915
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:45,750
>> February of 2006. So, actually,

1916
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:47,600
» thank you, God.

1917
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:48,159
>> Um,

1918
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:50,640
>> thank you, sir, for those numbers.

1919
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:51,760
>> Yeah. And then the other thing I'm

1920
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,320
noticing is we we've got within the

1921
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:58,000
definitions um you know non-conforming

1922
01:18:58,000 --> 01:18:59,600
building structures, non-conforming

1923
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,960
uses, setbacks, a specific paragraph on

1924
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,600
signs and then another specific

1925
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:07,520
paragraph on structures

1926
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,640
>> sign. It's not it was billboards were

1927
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,120
removed from the definition of signs

1928
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:14,080
specifically

1929
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:16,719
>> in the 2006 ordinance. They removed

1930
01:19:16,719 --> 01:19:19,360
>> Okay. All right. That's that's that's

1931
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:23,760
good to know. So again, I I am

1932
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:27,120
not comfortable with all this exactly

1933
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,280
without some more review.

1934
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:31,040
>> I I think we need to turn the wizards

1935
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:33,040
loose on it. If they bring it back to

1936
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,239
us, if it goes to the planning

1937
01:19:34,239 --> 01:19:36,800
commission, whatever happens happens.

1938
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:38,080
Scrappers show up and take it in the

1939
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:38,800
middle of the night.

1940
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,920
>> So a motion to table is in order. And I

1941
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,679
would make that.

1942
01:19:43,679 --> 01:19:46,320
>> I would I'm sorry to interrupt again. I

1943
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:47,679
would suggest tableabling it to a date

1944
01:19:47,679 --> 01:19:51,040
certain if possible or to a meeting to

1945
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:54,400
be held within 30 days.

1946
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:54,880
>> Your motion.

1947
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:56,719
>> Is that consistent with your needs as

1948
01:19:56,719 --> 01:19:57,600
the administrator?

1949
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,159
>> Yeah, I would do within 30 days and then

1950
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:02,320
we can review the planning commission to

1951
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:04,719
review amendment. Could I offer just one

1952
01:20:04,719 --> 01:20:07,679
other the idea and that is I think I've

1953
01:20:07,679 --> 01:20:09,760
heard you guys reference this could be

1954
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:11,600
generate to the point that the council

1955
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,800
needs to look at this get some feedback

1956
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,800
from a greater body and for this that

1957
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:18,960
represents the whole city. The point you

1958
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,199
just bring up about the billboards

1959
01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:24,800
having grown from wherever they are now

1960
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,520
you know from maybe where they first met

1961
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,239
the ordinance. This does seem a bit out

1962
01:20:30,239 --> 01:20:32,719
of control

1963
01:20:32,719 --> 01:20:35,360
and we're trying to control it but

1964
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,000
trying to it seems like we feel kind of

1965
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,120
hog tied by situation and and written

1966
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:44,800
rule when when we're very far out of a

1967
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,040
bit out of compliance at all with what

1968
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,159
the city intended with the ordinance and

1969
01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:52,640
now we're we're addressing some

1970
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,679
significant investment that I'm just

1971
01:20:55,679 --> 01:20:57,760
curious if the better alternative is no.

1972
01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:59,520
you should just remove the billboard

1973
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,800
completely. Move it out of the city. I

1974
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:04,320
mean, it's a thought.

1975
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:05,280
>> That's not our choice.

1976
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:06,640
I'm wondering if

1977
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:08,880
we also say council, do you want to

1978
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:09,840
address this?

1979
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:11,520
>> I don't sure that it's a council issue.

1980
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:12,960
I think it

1981
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:15,280
>> doesn't have that choice either. So if

1982
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,400
the question to remove the billboard

1983
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,199
>> to remove it if it's out of compiance

1984
01:21:21,199 --> 01:21:24,480
and if the ordinance was put in the

1985
01:21:24,480 --> 01:21:27,440
easement was the ordinance was put in in

1986
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:30,239
February 26th and the easement was

1987
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:35,280
established in September of 20 of 2006

1988
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,280
then if they didn't get a special use

1989
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:38,560
permit and they didn't get

1990
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,080
>> there's no such thing allowed in that

1991
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:40,960
district.

1992
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,520
>> There's no such thing. So the way the to

1993
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:44,480
be completed.

1994
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:47,040
>> The ordinance reads would allude to

1995
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,960
maybe that the easement was put in place

1996
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:52,159
after the billboard was constructed.

1997
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:52,800
>> So the

1998
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,560
>> that's something that's why I asked the

1999
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:57,040
question about how old is the billboard

2000
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:58,000
because I don't know.

2001
01:21:58,000 --> 01:21:59,840
>> So the the way that the the ordinance

2002
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:04,080
was amended in 2007 to include a list of

2003
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:07,520
billboards as existed in February of

2004
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,280
2006, which was the 10 billboards on 31.

2005
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,760
But it does not site their locations. It

2006
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,320
says on US 31.

2007
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:19,520
>> So I would assume that China one of them

2008
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:20,159
>> most likely.

2009
01:22:20,159 --> 01:22:21,840
>> It's not in the record.

2010
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,400
>> I I would assume based on my count that

2011
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,040
every existing billboard by Lamar is one

2012
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:31,040
of those 10 billboards.

2013
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:34,229
>> Mr.

2014
01:22:34,239 --> 01:22:36,880
Any way that you guys could get

2015
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:39,840
billboards that are not compliant and

2016
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:41,440
you don't want in the waterfront

2017
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:44,800
district. Has the city exhausted their

2018
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:46,880
way of getting rid of those?

2019
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:49,600
>> I don't think it's even been addressed.

2020
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,560
>> I don't think until very recently until

2021
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:54,880
this came up that it's really been

2022
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:56,320
looked at. I think everything's

2023
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:58,239
>> terrible. You put a lot of money over $2

2024
01:22:58,239 --> 01:22:59,920
million into that property.

2025
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:00,639
>> I feel for it.

2026
01:23:00,639 --> 01:23:03,840
>> Yes, you did. Exactly. That's why we're

2027
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:05,679
struggling so long and hard on this.

2028
01:23:05,679 --> 01:23:07,040
>> They're money pits. I got a few of my

2029
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:07,600
own.

2030
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:10,880
>> Yeah. So, um,

2031
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:14,719
but until this particular issue came up,

2032
01:23:14,719 --> 01:23:16,480
all the those signs have all been there.

2033
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:19,440
I mean, if if if they had come in today

2034
01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:20,960
and wanted to put up a new one where

2035
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:22,639
there wasn't one already, they they'd be

2036
01:23:22,639 --> 01:23:24,639
told no. I think the ones, you know, the

2037
01:23:24,639 --> 01:23:25,760
signs that have been there have been

2038
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,239
there long enough that nobody has gone

2039
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:31,120
back to second guess or relook or double

2040
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:32,880
check to see, you know, was there ever a

2041
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:34,719
building permit pulled for it? Was it

2042
01:23:34,719 --> 01:23:38,639
built after the ordinance? You know,

2043
01:23:38,639 --> 01:23:42,400
it's the list of the of the eight Lamar

2044
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,520
billboards that are on US 31. Is there

2045
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,960
such a list? You know, that's why I

2046
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:50,800
asked if you knew how long it had been

2047
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:51,280
there.

2048
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,120
>> How do we

2049
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,199
>> I don't know. That's why I asked.

2050
01:23:55,199 --> 01:23:57,920
>> Okay. Well, I may speak to you. How do

2051
01:23:57,920 --> 01:23:58,239
we

2052
01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:03,750
>> the billboard may have been built before

2053
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,400
» but those part of the just legalities of

2054
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:09,199
the whole debate or the real details but

2055
01:24:09,199 --> 01:24:11,120
I don't think anybody here would deny

2056
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,400
the fact that

2057
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,719
>> the city's not getting what they want

2058
01:24:14,719 --> 01:24:16,239
with all those billboards.

2059
01:24:16,239 --> 01:24:18,719
>> Well, this was written after those were

2060
01:24:18,719 --> 01:24:21,040
placed strategically

2061
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,520
>> knowing that most were closer together

2062
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,360
than that.

2063
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:26,880
>> Well, some were there. You've brought

2064
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:28,320
the fact more have shown up.

2065
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,800
>> There are somehow there are roughly 15.

2066
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,760
>> The 10 Lamar large traditional

2067
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:37,040
billboards are what are quoted in this.

2068
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:37,440
>> Nine.

2069
01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:38,080
>> It says nine.

2070
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:41,760
>> Nine. Okay. Nine with whatever faces.

2071
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,040
>> The ones Marty's referring to are the

2072
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:49,120
sort of wooden billboards. Mhm.

2073
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,239
>> Three of them have state numbers on them

2074
01:24:52,239 --> 01:24:53,600
>> which indicates they've been

2075
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,120
>> that they're on the state register.

2076
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:56,800
>> Yeah. which puts some more billboards

2077
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:00,000
that that that gets you to 12 or 13

2078
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,560
>> and the best I can find there I guess

2079
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,040
unless I if the state has record of when

2080
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:07,760
those were put up is in Google Maps it

2081
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:09,760
takes you back to 2008 and those are

2082
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:10,800
there as well. So I would

2083
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:12,320
>> that's just my point is that there's a

2084
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:13,760
lot of moving parts here

2085
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:15,840
>> and I don't have all the answers and I

2086
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:18,239
don't necessarily want to charge full on

2087
01:25:18,239 --> 01:25:19,679
into this without knowing the answer.

2088
01:25:19,679 --> 01:25:21,920
>> Yeah. And if we're going to table it um

2089
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:26,159
to a date specific um we should probably

2090
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:27,199
>> call for your question.

2091
01:25:27,199 --> 01:25:29,600
>> Well, I'm about to suggest that, but I

2092
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:32,000
see that 30 days from today is Memorial

2093
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,400
Day and we won't be meeting that date.

2094
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:38,719
>> So, we could at a date specific in May

2095
01:25:38,719 --> 01:25:41,040
as set by the administrator

2096
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:42,880
>> when she can um

2097
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:44,719
>> within 30 days

2098
01:25:44,719 --> 01:25:45,679
>> be determined.

2099
01:25:45,679 --> 01:25:49,600
>> Yeah. Because she will be probably asked

2100
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,199
individually by one or more of us for

2101
01:25:53,199 --> 01:25:54,960
additional information that may take

2102
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:57,520
some time for her to research. Um

2103
01:25:57,520 --> 01:25:59,360
>> so

2104
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:00,800
restate your motion

2105
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:05,040
>> that we uh table this um application I

2106
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:12,639
think is what it's called now. um to within 30 days a date to be

2107
01:26:12,639 --> 01:26:15,120
specified by the building administrator.

2108
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:16,880
>> Zoning administrator

2109
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,199
>> zoning excuse me zoning administrator.

2110
01:26:19,199 --> 01:26:20,800
You're both though, aren't you?

2111
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:21,199
>> No.

2112
01:26:21,199 --> 01:26:23,600
Jerry is the building back over

2113
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:24,400
there.

2114
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:25,040
>> All good.

2115
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:28,400
>> Um May 18th.

2116
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,520
>> What's post between now and then? I will

2117
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,120
>> there can be you can get in touch with

2118
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:34,800
us and find make sure everybody's

2119
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:36,400
available and

2120
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:39,120
>> well if you want to set a date today

2121
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:42,000
>> this just to continue discussion

2122
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,600
>> or gather should there be more

2123
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:48,800
>> take it off take it off the table and have our hopefully a decision we

2124
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:50,320
should be able to make one by then

2125
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:51,920
>> my understanding is you want the zoning

2126
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,239
administrator to make a determination as

2127
01:26:54,239 --> 01:26:57,199
to the use status of that of the

2128
01:26:57,199 --> 01:26:58,800
existing billboard

2129
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,040
>> and a proposed reloc

2130
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:03,520
Correct. That's my concern is use.

2131
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:04,159
>> Okay.

2132
01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:05,280
>> Between All right.

2133
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:07,040
>> And we we'll table variance until we

2134
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:07,840
know use

2135
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:10,719
>> and we apologize for being here and and

2136
01:27:10,719 --> 01:27:12,480
but it's going to take that long.

2137
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:13,280
>> It's okay.

2138
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:13,920
>> All right.

2139
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:15,840
>> I mean, we have a hard time determining

2140
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,280
variance before we know what the

2141
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,679
specific use is.

2142
01:27:19,679 --> 01:27:21,040
>> Well, so moved.

2143
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,280
>> Is there a second? I guess

2144
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:27,590
>> any com any more conversation?

2145
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,560
All in favor? Do we need a roll call?

2146
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,239
Just a

2147
01:27:32,239 --> 01:27:34,719
>> might as well.

2148
01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:37,040
>> Okay. Board member Johnson.

2149
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:38,880
>> Yes.

2150
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:40,239
>> Board member Dworth.

2151
01:27:40,239 --> 01:27:40,719
>> Yes.

2152
01:27:40,719 --> 01:27:42,159
>> Vice Chair Drain.

2153
01:27:42,159 --> 01:27:42,719
>> Yes.

2154
01:27:42,719 --> 01:27:43,920
>> And Chair Spalding.

2155
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:46,880
>> Yes.

2156
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:50,800
>> Okay. Next on our agenda,

2157
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,719
Riveright buried that.

2158
01:27:52,719 --> 01:27:59,189
>> Mine went blank, so I wish I could help.

2159
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:07,110
I think we're in a public comment zone.

2160
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:08,960
Are there any public comments on

2161
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:10,880
anything not on the agenda from

2162
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:15,110
everybody not here?

2163
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:16,960
Staff reports.

2164
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:18,719
>> Well, Jerry just walked out right before

2165
01:28:18,719 --> 01:28:21,199
I was about to go through our new

2166
01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:23,360
breakdown in the department. But for

2167
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:25,360
those I haven't met until today, my name

2168
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:27,600
is Maddie. Um, I started with the city

2169
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:31,280
back exactly 6 months ago today. The day

2170
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,080
that this application came in for the

2171
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:38,320
variance was October 27th. Um, this is

2172
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:39,840
Jackie. She's our administrative

2173
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,080
assistant in the office. And then Jerry

2174
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:44,080
has taken over the community development

2175
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:47,520
director title from Teresa and he's also

2176
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,840
serving as the building official. And so

2177
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:52,239
I do the planning and zoning, he does

2178
01:28:52,239 --> 01:28:54,960
the building, we work together on big

2179
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,120
stuff like this. But if you ever need

2180
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,239
anything, uh, one of the three of us are

2181
01:29:00,239 --> 01:29:03,040
always available. And

2182
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:04,960
maybe we'll meet twice this year. We're

2183
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:06,480
already meeting twice this year. Maybe

2184
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:08,639
we'll meet three times.

2185
01:29:08,639 --> 01:29:09,760
>> Record breaker.

2186
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,320
>> So this was about staff. You guys are

2187
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:13,920
staff.

2188
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:14,400
>> Yes.

2189
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:16,960
>> And we are board. And I just like to

2190
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:19,600
make a statement. I've been to one board

2191
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,920
meeting and I was an alternative

2192
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:24,320
alternate and I didn't know I was

2193
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,480
actually a board member, but that's

2194
01:29:26,480 --> 01:29:28,880
fine. So,

2195
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:30,159
>> I walk into this going, "Oh,

2196
01:29:30,159 --> 01:29:31,360
>> you didn't get out of the way fast

2197
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:33,120
enough."

2198
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:35,760
>> So, we are we have a vacancy right now.

2199
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:38,480
So, as long as or in the case Shel's not

2200
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:40,080
here, so we just can't have a board of

2201
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:40,639
six.

2202
01:29:40,639 --> 01:29:42,560
>> Okay. So, I'm filling a vacancy.

2203
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:43,360
>> Yeah. And any

2204
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,600
>> for the meeting's purpose. Okay. in any

2205
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:47,199
point someone's gone or we have a

2206
01:29:47,199 --> 01:29:50,320
vacancy as we do now um an alternate can

2207
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:52,560
sit on the reg then that's what I'm

2208
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:53,920
doing at the moment okay I was going to

2209
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:55,520
say I didn't know I was on the board

2210
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:58,000
itself but okay good enough thank you

2211
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:59,840
just had to state it sooner or later

2212
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:01,040
where I was at

2213
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:09,760
>> any dis anybody else over there have any discussion from the members

2214
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:11,840
>> I have another question I would like to

2215
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:15,600
just talk a little bit more about this

2216
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,000
about alternatives that are possible

2217
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:20,880
that might be helpful is can we do that

2218
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:22,800
informally or is this always supposed to

2219
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:26,800
be like open you know in a public forum

2220
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:28,800
>> has to be in a public forum by law

2221
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:29,600
>> yeah okay

2222
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:31,199
>> it's called the open meetings act

2223
01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:33,440
>> so so yes all right and and I'm aware of

2224
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:35,520
that and I was just curious so the

2225
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:38,159
alternative of the city deciding that

2226
01:30:38,159 --> 01:30:40,000
maybe because they've begged the

2227
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:42,560
question with their request there needs

2228
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,520
to be better action taken about the

2229
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:48,080
management of billboards at all in the

2230
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:51,280
city. I mean, if the city intends to do

2231
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:53,760
what I think the ordinance is about,

2232
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:56,320
which is in, you know, encourage

2233
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:59,360
development, encourage, you know, what

2234
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:00,880
this town is probably going to be built

2235
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:05,199
on, which is tourism. um that this

2236
01:31:05,199 --> 01:31:08,480
situation we make an action here that

2237
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:10,800
could sort of further cement something

2238
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:14,159
that the city we don't even want which

2239
01:31:14,159 --> 01:31:16,400
is that many formal billboards along

2240
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:18,080
that road in town and

2241
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:19,760
>> I think you're you're correct in fact

2242
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:22,400
we're we're charged with not having that

2243
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:26,000
authority or power we we can't alter the

2244
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:28,400
u some substance of the zoning we can

2245
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:30,239
only make some variances and

2246
01:31:30,239 --> 01:31:32,800
>> we can make recommendations

2247
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:34,800
planning commission or staff.

2248
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:35,280
>> Um

2249
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,520
>> because we've done that before in

2250
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:40,080
>> regards to the definition of a hotel and

2251
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:40,639
>> Yep.

2252
01:31:40,639 --> 01:31:43,040
>> which means that this decisioning here

2253
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:45,360
if it were to be about some things need

2254
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:47,520
to be eliminated or should they be

2255
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,520
before we agree to this. That's beyond

2256
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:53,440
our our charge as a variance board.

2257
01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:56,480
>> Yeah. We're the zoning board of appeals.

2258
01:31:56,480 --> 01:32:00,480
>> Um and we're to some degree bound by the

2259
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:02,480
four walls of the zoning ordinance.

2260
01:32:02,480 --> 01:32:03,120
>> Yes.

2261
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:04,960
>> Um we're given some latitude about

2262
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,199
making some decisions that are in

2263
01:32:07,199 --> 01:32:10,320
fairness and and make reasonable sense.

2264
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:14,320
Um but no, if there's a need for a

2265
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,960
change in the actual ordinance that

2266
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,040
belongs to the planning

2267
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:20,480
>> planning and and zoning board

2268
01:32:20,480 --> 01:32:23,199
>> or to take other action beyond what a

2269
01:32:23,199 --> 01:32:26,239
variance would be to a zoning.

2270
01:32:26,239 --> 01:32:31,440
>> Okay. Our our role is primarily

2271
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:34,320
interpretive of definition and actions.

2272
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:35,600
>> And I appreciate that. So just

2273
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:39,440
>> when when when staff does something and

2274
01:32:39,440 --> 01:32:41,280
somebody agreed comes to us and says

2275
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:44,880
they disagree with how they viewed that

2276
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:47,360
>> phrase, it's up to us to decide.

2277
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:48,719
>> Yeah.

2278
01:32:48,719 --> 01:32:50,080
>> Which to some degree is what we were

2279
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:51,920
doing today.

2280
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:54,239
>> And in in retrospect, the fact that we

2281
01:32:54,239 --> 01:32:57,440
only meet very infrequently suggests

2282
01:32:57,440 --> 01:33:02,239
that the system and the ordinances are working working well. People

2283
01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:04,159
understand what has to happen, what they

2284
01:33:04,159 --> 01:33:08,080
need to do and can

2285
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:11,440
navigate that without a lot of conflict.

2286
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:15,679
Um, I do feel that folks who have a

2287
01:33:15,679 --> 01:33:17,520
piece of property and are well on their

2288
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:19,280
way to doing something with it and have

2289
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:22,639
a business and all the rest of that um

2290
01:33:22,639 --> 01:33:25,360
may not be

2291
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:30,159
um well treated by decisions that

2292
01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:32,320
happened before the ordinances may have

2293
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:35,600
been altered or by other property

2294
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:39,760
owners. Um, but I'm not sure from the

2295
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:41,760
things that you've kind of shown us that

2296
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:45,199
you're focusing on that we have the

2297
01:33:45,199 --> 01:33:45,840
latitude.

2298
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:47,920
>> Yeah. Other question like this sign

2299
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:50,159
itself that's sitting there. I'd like to

2300
01:33:50,159 --> 01:33:52,960
know exactly when that was constructed.

2301
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:56,159
If it was constructed after 2006 or

2302
01:33:56,159 --> 01:33:59,440
prior is it was after 2006 if the

2303
01:33:59,440 --> 01:34:00,159
origins

2304
01:34:00,159 --> 01:34:02,639
>> probably needs to come down. Well, what

2305
01:34:02,639 --> 01:34:05,199
probably happened back when I was on

2306
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:08,080
planning back in the in the 80s and

2307
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,480
early 90s,

2308
01:34:10,480 --> 01:34:12,719
>> we had a we had a a zoning

2309
01:34:12,719 --> 01:34:15,840
administrator, building inspector

2310
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:17,920
who said, "Well, that'll be okay. We we

2311
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:19,360
can do that."

2312
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:21,120
>> Never. It wasn't until I was on the

2313
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:22,560
board that we were doing site plan

2314
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:29,199
reviews. And uh before that, oh yeah, that's almost enough. And in the

2315
01:34:29,199 --> 01:34:31,840
back of my mind, I'm almost willing to

2316
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,480
bet if that went up after that ordinance

2317
01:34:34,480 --> 01:34:36,480
went in effect and if Jerry was still in

2318
01:34:36,480 --> 01:34:39,440
office down there, he did one of his Oh,

2319
01:34:39,440 --> 01:34:42,080
that's okay. That that won't matter. I'm

2320
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:43,520
almost willing to bet that that could

2321
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:45,360
have happened, but I I can't say for

2322
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:45,760
sure.

2323
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:50,000
>> Can we get a review of

2324
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:52,639
>> it was approved by the B by the building

2325
01:34:52,639 --> 01:34:54,880
inspector at that time. So, it was

2326
01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:58,159
>> it though is the question. What can we

2327
01:34:58,159 --> 01:35:01,760
find out whether or not a the ordinance

2328
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:03,840
from 1999

2329
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:05,760
required a building permit for a

2330
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:06,560
billboard?

2331
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:09,199
>> It did for signs. You needed a sign

2332
01:35:09,199 --> 01:35:09,840
permit.

2333
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:11,360
>> Was considered a sign.

2334
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:12,639
>> A sign at that time.

2335
01:35:12,639 --> 01:35:15,520
>> So, can we determine whether or not a

2336
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:18,560
building permit was in fact pulled for

2337
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:20,239
it?

2338
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:20,880
Um,

2339
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:23,840
>> I can look if we have the records on.

2340
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:25,600
You may not be able to determine

2341
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:27,679
definitively whether or not there was

2342
01:35:27,679 --> 01:35:30,800
one. The records may not exist. But if

2343
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:34,320
the records are good and if there was no

2344
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:36,960
sign permit or construction permit ever

2345
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:39,840
pulled for that thing and it's

2346
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:43,040
indeterminable when exactly it was put

2347
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:44,719
up.

2348
01:35:44,719 --> 01:35:47,040
I mean granted it's 20 years after the

2349
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:50,960
date. Um, but perhaps I mean everything

2350
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,920
that I read in in the ordinance refers

2351
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:58,400
to legal nonconforming signs. If it's

2352
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:01,040
not legal, whether it's non-conforming

2353
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:03,760
or not is kind of a moot point because

2354
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:06,880
if it was put up illegally, it I don't

2355
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:08,320
know that there's a statute of

2356
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:10,080
limitations on something like that. Is

2357
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:12,560
there? Well, the issue would be whether

2358
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,120
we have standing to take exception to

2359
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:18,719
the mistake or whether that's uh the

2360
01:36:18,719 --> 01:36:20,719
standing lies with the current property

2361
01:36:20,719 --> 01:36:22,719
owner and that would be one for some

2362
01:36:22,719 --> 01:36:24,320
legal advice to review.

2363
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:26,159
>> And I can see being Lamar like the

2364
01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:28,560
situation we had looked at back in

2365
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:30,800
December where we were talking about

2366
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:33,199
those signs, the lighted sign,

2367
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:34,400
>> the lighted sign,

2368
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:35,920
>> the um

2369
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:37,600
>> they were willing to take the city to

2370
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:37,920
court.

2371
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:38,480
>> Oh, sure.

2372
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:39,840
>> So, they'd be willing to fight it

2373
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:41,679
anyway. There's there's assume that they

2374
01:36:41,679 --> 01:36:43,280
have some concern about that. They're

2375
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:45,199
what do they bill about $2 billion a

2376
01:36:45,199 --> 01:36:46,800
year in advertising and

2377
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:49,440
>> make a profit of half a bill on that.

2378
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:51,360
>> They're they're not going to be real.

2379
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:52,480
>> They're not they're not afraid.

2380
01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:53,920
>> Yeah. They're not going to be real wild

2381
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:55,840
about losing a piece of property. But if

2382
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:59,600
it was improperly done, the they uh the

2383
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,119
person who has standing to complain

2384
01:37:01,119 --> 01:37:03,520
about that could bring such an action.

2385
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,840
>> Right. I'm not saying that's the city.

2386
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:07,520
Uh, we don't know who that is because I

2387
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:09,600
don't know who I we don't know the

2388
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:11,360
underlying facts yet at this point.

2389
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:13,440
>> I'm just saying as part of your review,

2390
01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:15,199
can you look for that

2391
01:37:15,199 --> 01:37:17,679
>> just to see if it's if it is legally not

2392
01:37:17,679 --> 01:37:18,080
performing.

2393
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:20,159
>> It wouldn't be imprudent to have someone

2394
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:23,199
from legal take a look at that very um

2395
01:37:23,199 --> 01:37:26,719
theory, if you will, because uh it could

2396
01:37:26,719 --> 01:37:28,400
come back from some people who just

2397
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:30,400
left.

2398
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:32,480
>> The city didn't have jurisdiction over

2399
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:34,639
building permits at that time. Was it

2400
01:37:34,639 --> 01:37:35,360
the county?

2401
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:36,880
>> State of Michigan.

2402
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:37,280
>> Oh,

2403
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:39,440
>> they have records.

2404
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:40,239
>> If we could

2405
01:37:40,239 --> 01:37:42,239
>> way back

2406
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:44,320
proper terms, we may be able to

2407
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:45,440
>> you'd have I don't know if you'd have to

2408
01:37:45,440 --> 01:37:47,760
foyer the state for some for a building

2409
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:51,040
record in your jurisdiction, do you?

2410
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:53,040
>> Yeah. But it it would be a

2411
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:54,880
>> they would know. I mean, that would be a

2412
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:56,960
pretty demonstrable

2413
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:58,800
set of facts right there.

2414
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:00,480
>> Yeah. Essentially, I need a permit

2415
01:38:00,480 --> 01:38:02,080
number

2416
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:07,040
or a builder's name record,

2417
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:10,320
>> not a property owner name.

2418
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:11,840
>> And did I understand again you're

2419
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,320
standing here for for whom?

2420
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:16,080
>> I'm the building official for the city.

2421
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:17,199
>> You're the building official. Well,

2422
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:18,880
there we go. Then you do have standing

2423
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:21,280
to go and look at those things.

2424
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:22,080
>> Have

2425
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:24,080
>> I've I've tried to get records from the

2426
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:26,719
state. If you don't get have a permit

2427
01:38:26,719 --> 01:38:28,320
number

2428
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:31,840
or a builder's

2429
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:34,320
identification or name,

2430
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:35,600
>> what about asking Lamar?

2431
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:36,400
>> Yeah. Just thinking,

2432
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:38,239
>> well, I would I would suggest that if

2433
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:40,080
you said to Lamar, "Oh, by the way, we

2434
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:41,360
need the permit." Yes.

2435
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:44,719
>> For it to make this decision, they're probably not going to be real

2436
01:38:44,719 --> 01:38:45,760
happy to do that.

2437
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:46,239
>> No.

2438
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:48,239
>> But if they don't provide it,

2439
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:49,760
>> then can't you state? And then now

2440
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:52,000
you're getting into litigation. But then

2441
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:53,920
none exists. So,

2442
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:55,840
>> we will gather whatever records we have

2443
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:58,000
for the report.

2444
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:01,600
>> And it wasn't Lamar that put it up.

2445
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:02,800
>> No, probably not.

2446
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:03,600
>> It was uh

2447
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:04,960
>> but there should be some reference to

2448
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:07,040
the the the

2449
01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:08,880
piece of property itself that has been

2450
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,520
>> it was TLC Properties, a Louisiana

2451
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:12,400
Corporation.

2452
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:16,080
>> That's basically Lamar Lamar Louis

2453
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:16,880
Corporation. Okay.

2454
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:19,760
>> That's their subsidiary

2455
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:21,520
companies. Yeah. Yeah. They don't look

2456
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:22,560
at it that way.

2457
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:23,840
>> Yeah, they they

2458
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:27,040
>> But I I think it would be not improper

2459
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:29,280
for us to ask them to justify that they

2460
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:31,840
constructed it. When did you construct

2461
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:34,719
it and with what permit?

2462
01:39:34,719 --> 01:39:37,840
>> But if there's an easement or some some

2463
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:40,159
long-term granting of right, there

2464
01:39:40,159 --> 01:39:43,280
should be documents that underly that.

2465
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,199
And even if we have to ask Little

2466
01:39:45,199 --> 01:39:47,040
Caesars or whoever it was that was there

2467
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:48,880
earlier, there should be some record, I

2468
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:50,000
think.

2469
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:52,639
And I'm just thinking as a city changes,

2470
01:39:52,639 --> 01:39:53,119
>> well, yeah,

2471
01:39:53,119 --> 01:39:56,880
>> a city gets different um leverage, so to

2472
01:39:56,880 --> 01:40:00,320
speak, of of what can continue to exist,

2473
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:03,199
maybe was fine 20, 30 years ago and no

2474
01:40:03,199 --> 01:40:04,560
longer applies.

2475
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:07,440
>> Well, and we we're obviously as a city

2476
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:08,719
very concerned about that whole stretch

2477
01:40:08,719 --> 01:40:11,199
of waterfront because it is a key asset

2478
01:40:11,199 --> 01:40:13,440
to the city and it's going to underly a

2479
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:15,760
lot of things that can happen

2480
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:17,920
in the city. My little anecdote when I

2481
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:19,520
drove through this town the first time

2482
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:22,560
ever, which was about 12 years ago, we

2483
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:24,800
came from the north. And my first

2484
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:29,360
impression of this town was what a dump.

2485
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:32,719
And I did not appreciate the town at all

2486
01:40:32,719 --> 01:40:35,199
till I started looking more seriously

2487
01:40:35,199 --> 01:40:37,760
for a place to move to buy property and

2488
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,520
move to. and that northern and as the

2489
01:40:41,520 --> 01:40:43,679
cities and the states investing in that

2490
01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:46,880
road that that is such a good effort for

2491
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:50,320
this town to beautify that whole

2492
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:52,800
way in from the north and the fact that

2493
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:55,679
those billboards now sit like they do is

2494
01:40:55,679 --> 01:40:58,560
going to look even weirder in in the

2495
01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:00,239
future. I mean something's going to I

2496
01:41:00,239 --> 01:41:02,400
think it needs addressing. That's I

2497
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:03,600
guess what I'm getting at. It seems like

2498
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,560
it's bigger than the board uh zoning

2499
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:09,600
variance as to what's going on gone on

2500
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:10,560
with those build.

2501
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:12,159
>> So this the city has

2502
01:41:12,159 --> 01:41:17,600
>> that sign is going to have to put a lot longer pole on it because if you use

2503
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:19,840
the pole it's on right now the top of

2504
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:21,360
the sign won't get above the edge of the

2505
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:21,679
curb.

2506
01:41:21,679 --> 01:41:23,360
>> Oh depending because it's on the hill.

2507
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:24,320
>> It's on the bottom of the hill.

2508
01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:25,280
>> It's supposed to be on the bottom of the

2509
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:25,520
hill.

2510
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:25,840
>> Yeah.

2511
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:27,600
Again, I don't know if the

2512
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:29,520
Milwaukee people understand how that

2513
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:31,280
could affect, you know,

2514
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:33,199
>> one one other consideration, too, in

2515
01:41:33,199 --> 01:41:36,480
addition to checking for um for a

2516
01:41:36,480 --> 01:41:38,560
building permit and or any kind of a

2517
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:41,119
zoning application from that time period

2518
01:41:41,119 --> 01:41:43,600
to fix whether or not

2519
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:46,400
it it's it's a legal non-conforming

2520
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:48,960
sign. The other thing that that comes to

2521
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:51,280
my mind would be to try to find if there

2522
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:54,800
is a specific list of what those nine

2523
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,679
billboards are they were talking about

2524
01:41:57,679 --> 01:41:58,960
>> that's all of it

2525
01:41:58,960 --> 01:41:59,440
>> and

2526
01:41:59,440 --> 01:42:01,679
>> so what what went okay sorry

2527
01:42:01,679 --> 01:42:04,000
>> thing that I would that I just popping

2528
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:06,080
into my mind now

2529
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:08,800
>> has there been any annexation have there

2530
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:12,719
been any changes in the city's boundary

2531
01:42:12,719 --> 01:42:17,119
since 2006 where they could be counting

2532
01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:19,280
a sign that was in a different

2533
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:21,360
direction. Has the city annexed, I

2534
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:24,719
guess, is my point. Since 2006, did they

2535
01:42:24,719 --> 01:42:27,040
count something in Filer or Manaste

2536
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:29,360
Township as a sign and that one didn't

2537
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:30,719
exist?

2538
01:42:30,719 --> 01:42:31,280
>> You know,

2539
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:33,360
>> and the only annexation the city has had

2540
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:35,280
that my recollection, I'm not sure the

2541
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:39,199
date, is uh south of the golf course,

2542
01:42:39,199 --> 01:42:42,960
>> south of 12th Street and uh west of of

2543
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,280
Cherry. That's the only thing that was

2544
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:47,600
been annexed out of Filer Township

2545
01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:49,119
>> because that could affect that tally,

2546
01:42:49,119 --> 01:42:51,520
too. But if there's no specific number

2547
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:53,920
list anywhere,

2548
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:55,760
>> you know, that's there's just a number

2549
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:57,600
of things that that come into play here

2550
01:42:57,600 --> 01:42:59,040
that

2551
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:01,280
>> I would suggest we adjourn. We put a lot

2552
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:03,199
of things on the record because this is

2553
01:43:03,199 --> 01:43:04,560
all being recorded.

2554
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:06,480
>> Um, which means you've got a ton of work

2555
01:43:06,480 --> 01:43:08,400
to I don't know how you how you store

2556
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:11,040
that. You just keep the recording.

2557
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:11,360
>> Yeah.

2558
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:14,560
We'll have minutes but um most

2559
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:16,159
just action items for the most part

2560
01:43:16,159 --> 01:43:17,199
we'll make up

2561
01:43:17,199 --> 01:43:20,320
>> and um so I'd move we return

2562
01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:21,440
>> support

2563
01:43:21,440 --> 01:43:23,119
>> discussion

2564
01:43:23,119 --> 01:43:24,639
all in favor

2565
01:43:24,639 --> 01:43:34,629
>> I any opposed

2566
01:43:34,639 --> 01:43:37,600
» we didn't drift too