All right. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our
public hearing to discuss the proposed land development code amendments.
if you'd please stand with me for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one ation.
under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Right, madam clerk.
good morning. If you call the roll. Chairman alec here, vice
chairman mcclain here. Commissioner curry. Commissioner bryant here.
commissioner stone. All right. And proofs of publication.
I have six proofs of publication. I approve publication of legal
aid entitled notice of public hearing by the board of the county commissioners of marion
county, florida to consider a land development code amendment related article four zoning
division three special requirements section 4.3.6 manufactured home park trailer
and recreation vehicle regulations I have proof of publication of notice of public
hearing by the board of county commissioners of marion county, florida to consider a land
development code amendment related to the article four zoning division three special
requirements section 4.3.1 to roadside vendors I pray for publication of legal aid
entitled notice of public hearing by the board of county commissioners of marion county
,florida to consider a land development code amendment related to article four zoning
division three special requirements section 4.3.30 smoke shops I approve
publication of legal aid entitled notice of public hearing by the board of county
commissioners of marion county, florida to consider a land development code amendment
related to article one administration division two definitions I approve for
publication of legal aid and title notice of public hearing to by the board of county
commissioners of marion county ,florida to consider a land development code amendment
related to article six technical standards and requirements division seven
tree protection and replacement and I approve a publication of legal ad entitled notice of
public hearing by the board of county commissioners of marion county, florida to consider a
land development code amendment related to article six technical standards and
requirements division eight landscaping all published on the publicly accessible website
marion flora legal notices on august 10th 2026. All right.
>> thank you, madam clerk. All right. Good morning muneer, kick us
off. I will turn it over. Commissioner to the, you know,
services staff to present uh, the changes. Good morning, kathleen burke
nolan growth services this is going to. Be um, the first item on the
agenda. This is section 4.3.6 manufactured home park trailer
and recreation vehicle regulations. Um, the changes that are being
proposed are under the subsection for a temporary use. Um number three the for
agriculturally um zoned properties there where there is a 60 day period in any 365 day
period, um, where someone could get a temporary use permit to have their rv m or travel
trailer on heir own property. Um, where this came about was um from a citizen who um wrote
in suggesting a change um, they noted that some of the um equestrian related circuits
that happen locally um, happen for periods going past the 60 days some of them being 90
days. I know there's a winter circuit um, that's for a three month
period. So they suggested a change um, which we're proposing which
would be 90 days in a 365 day period with the option for a 30 day extension by growth
services director approval. Um, which was not something that we had previously but it
would give the opportunity um should there be a situation where an extension um ould be
appropriate it would give the director the opportunity to do that.
um, the other change in that subsection three was uh, a change from a limit of five
travel trailers to four um, five or more by department of health is considered an v
park. So at the five that would be where we would be looking for a
special event permit. Um, those have some more rules regulations, more things that
need to be provided um to growth services and those are only for a seven day period.
um, so there is a restriction on the special event. Permits should they be wanting
more than four travel trailers at one time to be on the property?
and then lastly um the subsection b parking of recreation vehicles this was a
change that um while we were going through this ldr c um suggested that the rv and
travel trailers may be permitted to be parked beside or behind the residence um,
which is similar to what we see with accessory structures um unless stored in the driveway.
if they are stored in the driveway they can't be um blocking the right of way or
sidewalks anything like that. And if they are parked beside or behind the property they
need to be at least the ten feet away from the property line.
um so those are the proposed changes. Um, we're looking for any
feedback you may have on those. Measures.
>> uh. Mister chair. Um I've had some calls.
from people who have children who come to the community to compete during the season and
so extending that timeline, um ,for them to keep their families um rv on their
property and then giving them that one month extension um um very much in support of.
and it brings it down to four right. From 5 to.
>> for health department reasons, correct?
>> yes. There.
>> yeah. Just a comment. Um, something that seems a
little off just so you go from . Four you're.
allowed to have. 90 days to do. Something plus an optional 30.
day extension but the minute you add one more you're allowed a.
maximum of. >> seven days with a special
event permit, correct? Yes.
>> and so what is the department of health I mean. Y'all see what I'm saying?-
>> you go. >> from.
4 to 5 and all of a sudden you're going down from possibility of 120.
days to seven. It's a.
>> state statute of some sort though I think. But I'll let them explain it.
they have to provide public bathhouses if you go to that five.
yes, sir. Can we work across services. At the fifth rv that does.
trigger an rv park to the department of health and that's where they require an on site
like physical bathhouse would uh, restrooms and ll that other stuff and laundry.
um, so we did not want to have any issues with folks who are just trying to have family out
there for a little bit of time. Um have been told that now they got to provide a full on
bathhouse but they're not an rv park. Right.
so that's the intention is this is very temporary. You come in, you do what you're
supposed to do for up to 90 days and then you go go back to wherever you come from.
okay? >> thanks.
commissioners. Any other questions or comments on the section?
and we do signed up for public. Is there anyone in the audience I want to talk about this
section on the rv park or rv element okay back to the board I mean we move this section I
think. >> this is just.
for this part of the other one. Yeah.
>> so this. >> is the first of the two eek
hearings. Um the next one um if you choose you would be confirming
to the second public hearing the change september 14th. We just need a motion to move
it to the next well we can do. Consensus o move this to the next.
yes. Um.
>> public hearing without any changes. Yes.
there you go. Which is september.
>> 14th t 5:30 p.m.. Okay.
>> bring it. All right. Thank you.
sir. >> you did.
I'll let the. Vice chair do that. Okay okay.
we're getting ready. Cancer can wear off. Deputy director, growth
services uh, this is item two. This is section 4.3.12 temporary roadside vendors.
only previously was or currently in the code it is labeled roadside vendors.
uh we've added the temporary to it so we're looking at this includes roadside food vendors
uh food trucks um it includes. Uh fireworks things I think are separate but it includes.
um like your produce stands on the side of the road and stuff like that.
so fruits, vegetables produce peanuts, uh, christmas trees, firewood and then your, um,
florida department of business and professional regulation division of hotels and
restaurants approved, um, food carts. Um.
so he language provided today is we're looking at trying to clarify what the language
trying to provide better clarity of the language that's in the um code oday while.
um being it. We think it's less restrictive .
it's currently today if you have more than two workers on the site you have to have you
have to provide restrooms and stuff like that here where um specifying that.
uh per parcel. To two roadside vendors or two food trucks can be on a parcel
with property um, ownership permission and. Um.
>> you know, they can't be in a right away so can't be in the easements and that they are
intended to be temporary so that services such as electric water sewer are not permitted
and that's existing code today . And if they're going to be in
permanent structures. Uh.
>> you know ermanent structures are not are not prohibited or are prohibited.
so I'm sorry which is urrent code today is just worded a little bit different where we
say shall be prohibited and now we say are prohibited. Um if it's a roadside vendor
for like a or um a protest and they have to get permits or that if it's um adjacent to a
farm. Um and we do look for them to have a driveway permit coming
off of the right of way, especially on county roads. We wanted to clarify that here
in uh. One uh, because oftentimes we're seeing where these
roadside vendors are just pulling off the road and sometimes their vehicles are a
little bit heavier and over time that is uh tearing up or messing up the apron of the
road. So wanting to clarify that a driveway permit needs to be
obtained, um, and that they have to have adequate parking, a stabilized area for ada
access and then. If there are more than two employees site on the site we
just wanted to clarify temporary restroom facilities which are before for just a
restroom facilities which could have been interpreted either needing to be a brick and
mortar type facility. But this does say that you can have temporary facilities.
um clarifying that. Mr. Chair, can we go.
>> back to that section again? Yes ma'am. So I.
>> just have a question on-site. Temporary facilities are to be
provided when more than two employees are present. So that does not include an
owner. It would.
>> just be the owners employee . Or anybody working in the in
the roadside vendor. So if somebody was there all day working and as an owner to
collect supervising I don't I don't know. I mean I think that you're you
could be in a great you could be in an area there. We can add owners to.
people you know to. Yeah you need to do persons instead of you're ever going to
try to do that because lots of you know so we also have these small businesses the owner is
that. We would go back to more than two persons language which is
what's currently in the code today. And would that include
customers. No okay so. We may need to clarify that
you. >> need.
to clarify that. Yeah.
>> because everything is you know up for how someone interprets it.
and we'll wordsmith that after we get out of here. Oh I also have a question bout
the parking. So what how do we what what's the process for determining
adequate parking? There currently today when so code enforcement if they were
to come out to he place where a roadside vendor is it would be just doing a spot check you
know, does t look stabilized so that there's at least somewhere safe for um, somebody
with disabilities to park so that they could park, get out and go to the stand and get
back to their vehicle safely. We don't have a whole lot of. Um.
>> regulation here as far as what that what the standards are is just just as adequate
and it's more of a um. A call on the site, you know, so if it if it looks dangerous
and you ask them can you fix this if it's if it looks okay then they just leave it alone.
where's robin at here. Yes. Get you an answer?
I think this is I don't know this is more about judging the parking as much as it is like
hey, if you're obviously in the right of way. So robin, can you help us?
so just as you look at these. Yes, sir. Code enforcement manager robin.
hough for. Um, growth services code enforcement manager.
um. >> what we're looking for is
that there's adequate amount of parking on the private property so that the people that are, uh
,patronizing these locations are not just driving off the side of the road and parking
along the edge of the page or the roadside. So why can't.
>> we just put. Why can't we just put. That into.
the the. Language that parking. Parking must be contained.
>> on site because adequate that. Just it's I don't know.
as a as a vendor how you're supposed to try to comply with something that's so subjective.
I mean just say that parking shall be contained on site. I mean we could put in there if
you want to commissioner, just to make it have a little bit of you know yeah you have to have
at least two spots that are on private property. You're causing an issue where
traffic is backing up then you need to manage that or something like that something.
uh yeah I mean. Yeah or. Just parking contained on site
I don't know this so designate spots.
>> because. There's not I mean they just. Try to draw lines and stuff
like that and ou don't want to get into all that and you just you just parking needs to be
contained on site if the if the goal is to keep them off. Of the.
right of way off of the road parking just needs to be we stay on site we.
>> can. Clarify that because you know different trucks different
amount of customers we saw um you know remember remember big lease when they were a food
truck. >> out there.
you didn't get there arly. They sell out and there might be 30 people there.
so well and then some of the food trucks you know they have to they end up having to
go into some of these bigger parking lots because you may have a big crowd.
yeah I was I went to lowe's to go pick up something and there was a egg one was there and I
was like man that'd be great to get one. And then you see the line and
the whole half of the parking lot is, you know, taken up by the egg roll truck.
so yeah. Okay. Okay.
yeah. >> those aren't very.
healthy. >> I know I'm just saying there
was a long line I saved myself probably lost a pound right there by not going.
no hating the egg roll people. No no no no we've.
>> all been trying to be a little healthier. And trying.
the next uh. Clarify we're trying to clarify that overnight food.
vegetables. >> produce and storage is not
permitted. Everything has to be inside of the vehicle.
um, they can't leave stuff outside. Um, arch advertising signs,
trash tables, chairs and other necessities shall be removed when the temporary roadside
vendor ceases business. Where do they and the maximum number of signs shall not
exceed for signs per endor. Is that is that include for uh for a stand like a sign about
stand there we just talked about the truck both. Oh yes.
so when you're when you're I guess when you're driving down the road you see like the
different fruits and vegetables they would need to limit that to four per vehicle per per
stand. What does that mean I'm sorry. Um so I don't know if you're
when you're driving and you start seeing like mangos and peaches and tomatoes they would
need to consolidate there was a little bit and limit there were still just for signs for that
one stand. Sure.
>> yeah I understand f it's a temporary but we also have some ag pieces where they have
basically almost permanent. Like um um fixtures you know what I mean?
like the stand part is there and and you have lots of people popping up these um, you know,
lttle wooden reas where people can come and buy, you know, something, ight?
so does that have to be movable? If so.
so that's what I'm trying to figure out because people you know, they're working the
weekend they're probably going to leave that farm stand. They might take all the produce
away but they're probably still going to have the farm stand. I believe the ones.
>> that are there maybe for the weekend or for the week I don't know.
we can look into that and give you a better understanding of the peanut.
thing at sollers has been there for I don't know how long it's been long and longer than me so
um right and so what do we do with that particular peanut stand that's pretty much there
but it operates significantly during gator football season right.
and so you just have those kind of elements there aybe that should have a special use
permit if it's going to be there all year long right. Or if it's a permanent thing it
probably should have a special use permit of ome. Sort and but we'll.
we'll work through those pieces I guess I'll. Bring you that information back
at the next meeting okay. >> thank you can appreciate
that as long. >> as your commissioner on.
it talks about the farm stance okay. What side stands you want to
help you. Ammonia it. Reference uh state statute
right. So I think the stands are allowed to remain.
yes perfect. So we're good to go then right.
>> and I believe that's looking at it's on the premise where the food on the premise.
yeah so. There's a little bit different rules there and they get some
different signage rules based on our sign code as well and within the statutes and we
can bring back some specifics about that okay. To clarify.
>> that. But if if it's another farm stand that's selling both maybe
what's produced there and a couple other things then it might fall into a different
category or no. Maybe but probably not because if it's on if it's on the farm
that it's some of the stuff's produced. Okay it would be okay.
it would fall under that um statute all. Right to farm.
yeah and that's fine. I want to make sure I just don't want to cause some other
kind of unintended consequence . Yes.
one thing to clarify in the stuff that was published it did say tables and chairs were
prohibited. That was a mistake. Um, we had a lot of
conversation through elders. So you're trying to work that out?
what what is everybody comfortable with? And we agreed that tables and
chairs should be limited to two tables with chairs because at one point we had a question
well what if somebody brought out a table that fit 40 people and that as you know, you get
into those discussions and it's it is if we have those issues we'll deal with it then okay.
it was basically what we came up with. Okay okay.
>> um and then section g is talking about if there's more than two temporary roadside
vendors or vendors on site they do need a special use permit because that would be a food
truck park and that's where we're looking at. While the statutes say we have
to treat roadside vendors and food trucks or food trucks like restaurants, we're not asking
them to go do um, site plans and traffic studies for everything.
however, we have seen a couple of food truck parks that come in and um, one try to you know
what came in and they were at a place where they had to do a uh a full traffic study with 15
trucks or more. Um, but this clarifies the path that if you want more than two
trucks and ou're going to be somewhat permanent there, here's the process that we're
looking for you to follow. And here are some of the um, minimum standards that we're
looking to address within that special use permit. And then you will do a site
plan and provide paid parking or get waivers if that's a potential um, but you're going
to ave permanent restrooms and all that ther stuff and if you're within connection
distance to water sewer you will have water sewer on the site for your um for your
vendors. Tose are the um proposed changes to the section.
did we? I'm looking through this right now.
did we clarify I mean are they supposed to be in and out each allowed to.they.-
keep it there in. If they're going. To or.
if they're going through the special use permit they would address that during the
application. I'm talking about the ones that fall underneath.
the the. Minimum like when there's two food trucks.
yeah we're just asking that they pack up all their stuff at night because if they have
permission to park there on that site, we're not making them leave the site every day
as long as or temporary but they can leave that.
>> it's not temporary if. If it's staying there all the time.
and we can put that in there I think.
>> I think. We least need to put it in there that it needs to stay or
have. I think the one problem that we're seeing is that it needs.
to be able to be moved out. Serviceable like it has to be serviceable if somebody comes
up and says hey, we haven't seen you moving, you know all the tires are flat and it's on
blocks now or you know what I mean? You can't right?
it can't go to some other kind of permanent structure uh because.
>> they. Don't know how to evaluate yours.
it we probably need to talk about that rocess because having them leave every single
day is maybe something but maybe we do need some kind of I don't really know.
okay. Um maybe if it's.
>> you talking about move the. If it's permanently basically parked there right.
so I mean the whole premise of a food truck is for it to be able to ove around right?
and it's supposed to be mobile. It's you know, but we do have some of them that are staying
in fixed locations and then we have the problem in some locations where they they just
ended up building they get. Security and stuff.
>> I don't know that one spot down in marion oaks had right? I don't even know how many food
trucks permanently partner in other things. And so it becomes a problem
because then they can't run water and sewer, they can't put in the bathrooms, they can't do
all these things and they're actually drawing lots of customers and you know now now
it's. >> a fixed location.
it's a fixed location and a fixed location needs to be like a restaurant.
and so that we've got to figure out that. Okay.
>> to allow the entrepreneur to be able to do their business but it needs to be what it was
purpose to be in a food truck and to be able to be mobile and then that's fine and once it
becomes a fixed location well then they become under the code of all the other state
regulations that a restaurant would have to have. And so we're trying to parse
that line and figure out your point like how do we put in the right things for the good
actors that want to do the good business and want to, you know ,aren't causing the issues
right so. We can work but we also have to be able to weed out the bad
actors that are causing issues and bad recommendations for the rest of the community.
and so that's and that's what we're trying to figure out. But we'll we'll bring you back
some language. U, I'll work with our code enforcement to make sure it's
something that I think we need. To have.
>> something that's enforceable for robin and her team. Yes, that is common sense
policy, right? That that that makes sense that and any normal business
operator would be okay with that. We're not restricting them but
we're also not impacting right away. He's not putting people in
dangerous positions not having you know, groups of people in places with no restrooms.
yeah. All of those kind of issues that we run into.
the other um thing that I was looking for in here commissioners.
was I mean I have had some complaints of some locations where they're playing loud
music and. Well that should be an easy noise ordinance.
well I understand but if we address it within this section of our land development code
and we don't allow it, then it's not a problem. It's a food truck.
you're supposed to be walking up getting your food and leaving.
yeah. >> I gotcha.
it shouldn't be a hangout spot. Where we have said tables and chairs well are not permitted.
to. You now have to change that. But still.
and I mean having a ittle bit of music is fine I don't have a problem with that I mean but
but I don't it doesn't need to be blaring. Where it is though.
okay you know what I mean. It could be next to it in some of these locations to a
residential spot. Yeah. In you know in some of our more
agricultural locations. Well why isn't that just enforceable by our right?
how do we have no amplified sound equipment allowed? But that would be part of our
noise ordinance lready. I understand, but why should somebody have to call code
enforcement and have code enforcement come out and deal with this?
we can just put it in the code and then have to argue with the person who is there saying oh
I'm not playing loud music if it's already in the code code enforcement gets called out
they can say no, it's in the code. Okay we can do it.
as well okay with. That I. It's a way so that is way not
having it in the code and having code enforcement have to go out and pull out the decibel
meter and all that stuff is a waste of staff's time if they can just go out there and say
I'm sorry but you're not allowed to have amplified sound equipment.
what? >> okay.
>> I don't know what I don't know what. What does that mean to find
amplified right. So an I have a bluetooth speaker?
all those can be quite loud as well. And hat's my point is I like
that's fine I'm just trying to figure out like amplified do you mean why.
>> don't we let staff work on that and bring us something back?
okay. Robin, are you seeing that as a problem?
robin come on. Can you come here for a second, please?
robin. Can I bother you again? Uh, think.
that's why I'm here. Yeah.
>> robin, what are you running into in this regard. So we don't get a lot of
complaints about music being played t, a single food truck location.
but we. Have had. Complaints few and far between
. And what we do is we do apply the plainly audible noise
ordinance. So it's plainly audible. You don't get to bring the
stuff ut there. If we if we can hear the music off the property that they're
on then they could very possibly be in violation of the plainly audible sections.
okay so. To address the amplified so anything coming through a
speaker or live instrument is um covered under our plainly audible.
noise ordinance okay yeah so so I mean just like if you're in an rv and some of them have
built in, you know, speakers I've seen food trucks with built in a little bit of built
in audio. Is that going to be considered amplified?
yes. >> hey would need to.
be ike a car tereo right? Correct. It would need to e turned
down. .
>> you need to hear it off site. So you can't hear it outside.
well that's fine I mean I'm okay with that I just I don't want to if somebody does have a
little coffee truck and they have people staying there for a few minutes talking I you know
and they have a little bit of jazz music playing in the background.
all anybody's complaining about that but they are. Complaining one of those that
huh so can you tell me where there's one.
>> right by gator joe's on like we are. Yeah lady in the and she's
she's got one yeah there you go. And we can exempt the ice.
cream truck. >> oh no.
yeah we we'll be okay. >> with the ice cream truck
because they play music all the time. That's how we know they're
coming. Yeah. All right.
good. >> we're covering.
>> on that. I think they're playing unless we get a bunch of complaints.
I think we're okay with plainly audible. Okay.
gotcha. >> uh.
>> you. >> uh those are all the
proposed changes for the section okay. Or any other questions?
any other questions? Commissioners for staff? If not, I got some folks signed
up. Uh, don landry uh, and then butch torched.
uh, you can both come to the podiums uh, right here and right here.
you get two minutes to speak if you please give your name and address for the record for the
clerk of the court, please. Good morning, john. Landry 11930 southeast 123rd at
arthur aw. Thank you sir. So I'm.
>> with sprinkles ice cream. And we have a powerful.
>> put in there. Uh it's been there for.
>> over nine. Years and now all f a sudden we can't have a power pole.
or they're not wanting to. Power pole.
>> they're I don't understand. Why not? Sir?
>> it's because it's supposed to be temporary. Probably power pole makes it
permanent, but, uh, I'll ask staff once we're done with this and I don't know what the issue
is exactly. Uh, I don't know either. Uh, they don't want no more
power pole there. Um.
>> we made a few runs off the power pole, but there should be no reason.
duke energy. Put the power pole there. Marion county, uh, allowed the
power pole would be there. >> I'm not even sure how you
got a power pole and I'm in a blank spot on I. Purchased a trailer, came with
the pole. >> uh, okay.
um, but I do ice cream so without the power there and shutting down, unplugging and
moving every day, it's going to be a little difficult, right? I don't know.
oh, you. Stay there pretty consistently but you do move for events uh,
about how it works. Well, the we're there all the time.
w don't we don't do events. Okay okay. Yeah.
so you probably we probably just need to have a pecial use permit if you need power and
and you're in a permanent you're in a semi-permanent location.
yeah probably we just need a special use permit for that particular entity because it's
different than probably the classification we're trying to address in food trucks right.
so we need to figure that out okay. That's it for.
me that's good feedback thank you sir thank you. Um margaret is up next over
here yes sir. I don't know do you.
>> have a name and address for the record? Uh.
but to say. Um 17320 northeast 37 court citra.
thank you sir. Um.
>> I'll shorten this down. Um, if my food truck leaves the property every night, is it
still considered temporary if I return regularly? Yes, I believe every night.
but I come back to the same spot every day. Yes, sir.
okay. >> that's my understanding I
will I will get corrected. Staff will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's
correct. Yeah, because I was trying to figure out at what point does a
rear crank food truck location become not perating on a temporary basis?
yes, sir. >> as long as you can move,
it's temporary. Okay.
> um, and how does this affect food trucks hat are operating at established businesses?
um. >> as far as the like how many
foods how many customer parking spots are required and ada spots are required if we're
operating at an already established business. Um yes sir.
so as we talked about earlier, I think robin is just looking to make sure that t's adequate
parking and that it is accessible um and meaning that we're not parking vehicles in
the right of way in those things. So if you're at an established
business it's probably even easier because it's got a parking lot and people can pull
into those spots so that shouldn't be an issue. Um, but we can.
>> I can get. Some staff feedback if there are issues.
okay. >> um and he mentioned earlier
about the overnight storage that it has to go inside. So if my trailer is parked
overnight I do obviously barbecue and tacos. Yes sir.
so I have refrigeration and a freezer in my trailer. If my trailer is going to be
parked there overnight I can leave my food inside that refrigerator freezer inside my
trailer. I believe so. Okay well I said.
>> it's contained. It's contained. Okay because it said it can't
be on site overnight so I just want to make sure. It's not permitted.
oh it does say it's not for me all right so we'll we'll talk with staff about that.
so basically leaving. You want to leave food in your refrigerator on your trailer
overnight. That could be an issue okay. We need to address that and
look at it sir okay. Um and it said about the signs I'm assuming that it's just
signs that aren't attached to the trailer because ike my menu board is attached to my
trailer. Does that count against my six square feet?
that's a great question. Let's have that answered. Okay.
>> um and if a special use permit or a minor a major site plan is required who has to
obtain it? Is it the third truck? You're talking about of more
than the two trucks parked there? Yeah it says it you know and.
so the the um the. At the end of the day. Uh quite onestly the unless
the food trucks are the property owner the property owner has to do it.
so if if the property owner makes the decision to allow more than two trucks then they
are obligating themselves as the property owner with in all honesty I don't know that
the county cares. Who they leased to and how ll that works.
we care to make sure that the infrastructure that's our that's what we have to make
sure is done right. So it would be the onus of the property owner.
okay so therefore the special use permit stays with the property owner not the
individual food truck. That's correct yeah no special use permit would be to the food
truck unless it was the entity that owned the property okay. And how do we verify before
setting up whether or not a special use permit? It's been a call to our growth
services department okay. Or an email and we an verify any special use permit.
okay so now I just need to make sure I get his contact. Absolutely yes.
our team would be more than happy to help you. All right.
if you're looking for if you're you know if you're looking for a piece of property.
yes. Well and I also think that it would be something if that they
need that would need to be a conversation they would need to have with the property owner
as well. Yeah because they don't know what a property owners thinking
and a property owner might say sure you're good and then ll of a sudden he's got three
trucks in there. >> and they might not know and.
he's getting t code enforcements coming right and saying hey you're not in
compliance. So and they're in you you lie on the property because the
property. >> owner had to figure out
which one they don't want any longer. Well you might have a property
owner in new york and then you got three businesses renting that property from said
property owner. It's not even in the state of florida.
yeah and we will notice that property owner because we can't all right are as far s our
process goes it has to o to the property owner. It can't go to the food trucks
now we can cite you for other things operationally but we can't cite you.
for um. The property piece I don't think.
I know we'll find out though. Yeah.
>> the only other thing I wanted clarification on um, is the tables and chairs.
I understand that miss bryant feels like people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy hanging out at
a food trailer. Not but what I. Said occasionally.
um. >> occasionally actually your
words were that they should take their food when they're supposed.
>> to be getting it. But I do understand sometimes people sit down and they
actually eat their food. But what my intention was so just so I can clarify it was
that it should it become a hangout spot because we did have a large area that ended up
becoming a hangout spot. So I apologize if my words came out like that.
well ironically part of my business plan is I have a canopy set up with a
self-contained battery operated down and there's ceiling fans- inside the canopy that are
lighted to make people more comfortable because customer comfort is one f my things.
and then I lso have standing bar height tables without chairs so that people
can actually stand there and eat food and perchance talk to each other nd hang out.
yeah. >> so would that be permitted
or is that one of those things that you want to prohibit. You can I mean under this thing
at least what's proposed so far and we're and we're making adjustments but you would be
able to have two of them if I understand correctly. Um but what is your
recommendation? Well I'm just curious because my bar height tables are, u,
six feet long. So okay.
>> it's for more than for people to be able to so if you can get at.
all I mean technically I don't think we're going to and that was the debate that they were
having at the land development code. But you technically you could
have two of them. Yep.
>> but commissioner I mean what he just said he has is he's got a canopy and I'm assuming that
canopy stays there every day. It sets up when I set up. Okay it sets up so you take it
and does your truck stay there. So it's it's an outside area that you've created.
you have a anopy you have a fan you have misters. And you have the.
table I have a 24 foot. I have a 24 foot food trailer with a smoker on the porch.
okay off to the side of that I have actually 210 by ten canopies that I set up
every morning with battery operated and misting systems. To keep people cool.
we're ceiling fans inside the canopies and then the six foot bar height standing table so
people can get their food and have somewhere to set it down and eat so you don't have to
take it and run while at the same time I'm trying to cool them off a little bit
because florida hot. Oh well because you're putting it up and down every day.
it's it's it's still a temporary use and your table seems fine to me we'll we'll
just make sure that that's what we're looking at. Yeah I thought you were saying
it was a permanent fixture and you're pulling your truck in every day.
that's what I heard the first. >> oh no, ma'am.
sorry. >> okay.
>> we'll address those questions with staff there writing them down.
thank you. Um. Megan's next.
yes, ma'am. >> hi.
>> good morning. Good morning. I'm argaret renard.
I am a lifelong resident here in marion county and I own not. One but.
>> two food trucks. Um, my address is 4001 southeast 20th terrace here in
ocala. Um, I think that one of the things that we haven't talked a
lot about you guys have mentioned.
>> it a few times though. A lot of the language in the proposed ordinance is not
specific enough. Um, item article number nine in here you need to define what
temporary actually. Means because as you can see here from today from the
comments that you're hearing there's.
>> a lot of. Confusion as to is my is my business temporary?
am I mobile enough? Is it permanent? I understand there's been
issues with several. Um both formal. And informal.
food truck parks but part of that. Language stipulate it's very.
contradictory in that section. Being temporary is okay. So you can have.
>> more. Than two. Or can you not because f.
you're two trucks. Set up at one location or two vendors.
>> a farm. >> tent, whatever the case
might be do you now are you. Now considered a food truck park?
they are separate things. I pop up on occasion. With my friends.
from red riding coffee. That's two of us now what if what if our riend who makes
soap brings her tent and sets up to do we need a special use. Permit or are.
we still temporary. Enough that we don't require that so.
>> that language needs to be. >> a little bit more specific
so that vendors know exactly regulation is fine. It's necessary in many cases we
many of us will follow. > the rules.
but we need. >> to.
understand what's being expected of us. But second to that something
that's not been talked about and. Forgive me if I missed
something and. Didn't read it that there.
>> had. Been a change. But isn't.
there something about notarized permission from the. Parcel owner for every
time somebody sets up somewhere? Is that part of.
oh I haven't seen it but. Yeah so. Yeah and part of the problem is
and that's what we were talking about is that it's it it's hard for us right just just like
anything else we can enforce regulation land development cde on the property owner
right. We don't go and get in the middle of the business if
publix leases part of their space to some other folks in the shopping center right where
but if the shopping center is out of compliance we got to go to he owner nd they have
to fix it with their tenant. And so that's the process that that we're in.
so yeah we don't. We don't like go to the property owner and check and
see if they have a notarized agreement with ou and then try to get in the middle of your
agreement and make sure you e we don't police that. No, I completely.
understand that and I understand from the comments that we've had today, the
majority of the language of this ordinance is to address these quote unquote food truck
parks whether they're formal or informal. However, the language is
extremely broad and it does put every food truck or roadside vendor it makes them question
what is allowed for them and it's a hardship if. I so I'm I'm very mobile
completely mobile I own a dessert trailer a bakery. And a.
mobile ice cream shop. Which hasn't even opened its. Doors yet.
I've spent substantial money on my brand, on my trailers, on just hard work and I know that
every other food truck person in here or oadside vendor has done the same trying to build.
something for themselves. >> or for their families.
absolutely. >> so to most of the time when
I'm setting up it's a casual text to a friend hey jana, can. I set up at your place on
saturday? Yeah, you're good to go. No problem.
so now jana who rents her. Building it is a commercial property.
she leases. >> her property.
do I now need to go to the parcel. Owner and get a notarized
document from said parcel owner. Or what's so.
why is specifically the owner? Why not an. Authorized manager or.
I don't even see it in here. We don't have.
>> that language so you don't have to get me no no I. Where do I have it at
chris because I've read through it. Where is that in there
somewhere can. See es that is um in part b section.
b okay I missed it too so I apologize. I want to make sure we're
addressing language that's not prohibitive because where I still don't want to say it's
not in our. Yeah it's not where we are though can.
it's just. >> not in the published stuff.
it is not in what is published right here in my docs. Okay so what yeah so where is
it what section of what line is it. It's b but it.
comes right after that online not here for us. Okay okay I got it man.
thank you. So so we were removing um proposed language I think it's
proposed language of uh this facility shall e located on private property which is
either owned or leased by the vendor. So there would be some kind of
a lease agreement. Um, and instead we're adding otain notarized written
permission from the parcel owner because there was a there's concern that there are
vendors who are just pulling up on vacant properties where the owner may be absentee, may even
live out of town and they have no idea what's going on. So it's just a question of do
you actually have the owner's property, um, permission to remain on their property?
okay, I see what you're trying to get to. And through the ldc.
um the notarized part came that was an agreement. So that's a decision that we're
looking for the board for direction on. Ten is that for every time they
come on and off the property or was it just like uh they could. There's an easy ix for that.
banket permit just to add vendor shall obtain notarized.
>> written. Permission from the parcel owner.
slash or representative. But I don't know if it needs to be notarized.
how about just written. Permission from the owner slash representative?
yeah I mean do y'all want it to be notarized? Then you can make it up.
yeah, I'm gonna. Say how uch do you want o police it?
yeah, I. Kow what. Problem we're we trying to
solve here though. Let's let's just talk about.
>> people pulling up on property and property that they don't have permission from the
owner or a representative and just setting up shop and it's bad actors, right?
that's what this all comes down to. And as.
usual when we have to take care of that it always the uintended consequences affect
the people that are following the rules. Commissioners I think it's the
duty of the property owner to make sure that their property is secured.
and f they didn't if they're if they're having a problem with this they need to go fix
it. They need to put up a fence and a gate on their property and
that allow people to. >> pull up.
>> on their I think the problem that we've had though and ask robin about it yeah I mean you
might as well bring robin up. She's probably the one that's had issues with it right.
and and this. Is a business I mean businesses do have to take certain.
steps o operate. Just like.
>> a brick. And mortar business. That's true.
I'm not trying to overextend. For the business. So I I'm in agreement.
but you know it will be interesting right? Especially for the folks that
are very mobile then that means single time right?ure out every- I mean every single time you
know I mean any of these folks are somewhere else, you know? I mean every time you
go somewhere then you have to have. Well but if they're.
on site at a business yeah, they already have the permission and the business is
open I got to step inside and prove that. But if you're on a vacant piece
of property then that's where. >> it becomes questionable.
>> who then. Can we specify that language? Because I completely.
understand where the concern comes from and I agree I do think that.
>> the. Land owner does have a certain responsibility and I think that
the law protects them. Should they file a complaint they.
can put it in a trespass request and then if somebody breaks that rule.
then they have to. >> pay the consequences for
that for being a bad operator as you said. But for me to have to go and
get paperwork notarized every. >> single time that I'm going
to set up and that might be 3 or 4 locations. In a week.
and maybe eight. I own two. Trucks and it's not like they
can just take a paper. Well maybe they could attest to it.
maybe you could be the one attesting to it that you've received permission but it's
still your take. It can be very blanket. Of you have permission to use
this property t your discretion. Certainly and.
>> being able. To say that we have to.
>> get permission I'm a fan. >> of even to a certain.
extent having to prove. That you have said permission but the step of actually asking
us to. >> have it notarized.
>> for every single time that we're. Setting up or even say hey,
it's blanket you can set up. Here anytime. Nonetheless, if I'm setting up
at eight. Locations in a week. I am a tiny business that I
now. Have to find a. Notary, coordinate multiple
schedules. Pay said. Notary as.
an extra. Expense to my small business. Well it's a hardship you know
it's not ne time. If it is a blanket you have permission to use that
poperty. >> one not for that one
business and by nature. Were mobile. So do you have to.
carry insurance. >> I do okay.
and all those papers have to be on site with you and okay this is no different.
it becomes a. Piece of.
>> paper that you pull out and show I have permission to use this property and again it
doesn't have to be date specific. I have permission to use this
property. >> I don't have an issue with
that. My issue. Is again the.
notarization one. Time you get it notarized. One time ma'am.
just like. >> you got if the eal if you
had. >> any if every store that you
went to you had to get your your receipt notarized. Would you have an issue with
that? That's not what we're talking about.
even if you only had to do it one.
>> time when you went to walmart.
>> one time when you went to publix. That's what I'm talking about,
ma'am. That's not what.
>> we're talking about there. So is there.
>> anything else that you need? Yes.
>> so yeah a couple. >> of things.
some of the regulation that's in here is being duplicated by dpr um and.
the department of agriculture. So for example. The expectation of restrooms
once you exceed the threshold of two employees we are here are.
expectations already. >> in the laws that govern us
as food businesses. So it's redundant. It's not I mean do it if you
want it's just. A statement.
>> that. It is edundant.
>> but we. Need it in our codes in order for our code enforcement to be
able to enforce it okay. Unlike state statute they're there folks will be able to
force it. So lot of our ordinances and laws follow that of state
statute okay. And then it was.
>> brought up. So I just want to kind of touch on it and um just.
reiterate or say for from my end. The sound.
ordinance I think that kind. >> of goes back to.
again duplicating law. And regulation. There is an.
expectation by every. Business, every. Person that you follow.
the rules of. >> code enforcement and.
if someone is violating that. There are already. Regulations in.
place to address it already addressed it. We did.
but yes, you've addressed it with.
>> the. Statement that you want to add regulations.
I'm going. >> to.
we're just going to follow the noise. When we had a conversation when
robin came up. Okay I appreciate that. And I.
just ask that you consider it. >> that every grouping of food.
trucks or vendors. Is not a food truck park. So consider that as this is
redrafted. Um.
>> to be specific about what addresses foods. You know, food.
truck parks as opposed to. Groupings or smaller. Groupings in the community of
food. Trucks and vendors. Okay.
>> thank you. >> thank you.
megan and rachel. Uh, megan knits, 65 olive road ocala.
uh, a lot of what I was going to bring up is actually already been addressed.
I have a question of when it's two or more does that count as far as food trucks serving
burgers, things like that or is that could also include things like what we do with the frozen
kiwi. We do desserts, we do ice cream, we do drinks.
how is that going to be navigated?
>> I don't think food type matters okay? It's just how many.
because again just like. Before you know we. Collaborate with other food
vendors we brings in the crowd, it brings in income from us but this is our primary source of
income. So we do want to make sure that we're following rules but we
also want make sure it's going to be profitable for us as well as business owners.
another question that I have and this will probably be my last one everything kind of got
addressed already. Um as far as school events, sporting events, churches,
apartment complexes, things like that. If there are more than two
trucks how are we going to address that for like more private areas like schools and
churches things like that for carnivals, community events a lot of times they have more
than two food trucks. Yes ma'am.
>> that's probably addressed when that. School or.
apartment complex generally they'll come in for a special event.
permit okay. What about.
>> like local church fairs things like that and such same kind of thing.
it should be we'll we'll work through the clarification. I think that was the other
point of several of the other vendors is that we just need to clarify some of that language
to make it more. Okay.
>> in general I would even say I mean that goes back to the property owner that is inviting
you on. So it wouldn't fall to the food truck.
>> and what we're talking about as far as food truck park is is more so not really a emporary
event right? You're having an event on a weekend and you go to that.
we're not talking about events. We're talking about people that are set up.
yeah I'm for. And in most of the cases that we're having issues with
they're set up for a long period. They're basically not moving
and they're setting up two, three 4 or 5 trucks and they're just parking there and they
don't move them and they become by essence a restaurant. Yeah right.
and that's that's the difference. And so we need to clarify that
we need to make sure the law that we want to work through is very clear about the
differences between it doesn't matter if ten of you re getting set up for, you know,
marion county day or whatever else or 4th of july. Right?
that's an event. >> okay.
what we're worried of what we're talking about is what a food truck park is and then if
they want to become a food truck park, then they need to go through the proper
regulation process for that. So we're trying that's why we're having these meetings so
we can get your input to make this all better. Yes ma'am.
thank you. >> my name is rachel next 13
for drive. Um I have red riding coffee and have been invited to the rose
barn drive-thru flower shop that recently opened this year and.
we collaborate together. I advertise for for them. They advertise for us.
I's just a really good combination and the community like we have just been loved on
by the community so much that it's just been growing. We're out there about three
days a week thursday friday from 630 in the morning till like two saturday from 9 to 3.
um unless we get hired for an event. .
but again the person leasing that property invited us to come.
so just to clarify as far as like the representative would that be the person
leasing the property or is it still like somebody from the property owners like office?
I mean technically it would still be the property owner but maybe again maybe we can tweak
that language and maybe we just need to have something in there it.
shouldn't be a representative should be if.
>> somebody is leasing a property they have the authority and.
>> they were to use. >> that property and they can.
so yeah I mean. I don't know what's in.
>> there. And I don't think it should fall back on the food truck
vendor if they've been invited by that business to be on site. Right.
they're not I think. >> we can maybe solve that by
just saying hey, if they got invited or something else basically just having that
information there that the code enforcement officer when they come up if they have a question
they come up and you can say hey I was invited by this person.
there's a name and phone number. You give them a call a code
enforcement officer checks keep going.
>> yeah I think. Maybe we can.
>> solve it at anybody. And then actually the owner of the property comes and gets
coffee from s. Sure. Same with his office.
yeah. >> um, and then.
to what is the maximum number of days that you can be there because I like.
for me to set up my husband and I built our trailer so it's not typical.
um, we converted a horse trailer. It's all wood on the inside.
it's a lot of work. I work.
>> like 16 18 hour days. I have a full time job and I do this on the side trying to
build it up, but it's like a two hour process between packing it up, bringing it, you
know, going and dumping, refilling, bringing it there, setting it up and then
basically closing it back up getting it ready for shop. It's probably about a three
hour deal to have to move it every so often like it's. Like aren't you moving it once
a week anyway or are you leaving it there all the time?
>> well I'm leaving it there for about three days straight right now for if it's just.
>> too hot to pack up because. Sometimes I'm just like I'm done.
but I was looking into maybe adding like a ednesday but now I was like after seeing this
yesterday I was flipping out thinking we're done. Like are you moving it once a
week? Yes okay I again we need to tweak that but I think that's
fine because that in my mind that still. That's still a temporary type
of thing. And I think some of the maybe the.
the reasoning behind we have a thank goodness we've been very blessed we haven't had
hurricanes or anything coming through if there is bad weather forecasted those things need to
be packed up, moved away or they become so I think that is another piece of why they need
to be mobile right? Even if it's sitting there consistently but you don't have
the food on site. I mean all of that is addressed .
it's got to be able to be moved immediately. That means the tires are ready
. You hook it up. To the vehicle and it always
is. Exactly. So I think that is.
and that's the spirit of temporary right is that it has to be wheels.
so as far as electric. Light because I am a coffee trailer I have a generator on
my back. So when I'm in when I'm operating I have the generator
going but when I'm not the generator goes off. I plug in just a long extension
cord. Is that an issue? You know.
>> I don't know I don't know if that's overed in our code or if that's an issue.
I don't know that it is but we'll ask our team. Kind of safety issue I.
>> don't I don't know if it's a. Safety issue but I'm sure I got
you know I don't know there's there's all kinds of electrical code that I don't completely
understand right? I mean. And it's just for refrigeration
right. So.
>> I an answer that one really quick in the existing code today they're not supposed to
be connected to electric water or sewer. So they're supposed to be
self-contained and not connected to anything. Okay that's.
existing code today that part has not changed.
>> gotcha. So just asking a question if we're not able to or if they're
not able to put electric in for people to hook up how can like why do we have that owntown?
what's time. You have where we can hook up electric 50 and 30 amp
downtown? Oh that's ot us that's the city of ocala.
but I just I'm wondering like how that's how they're able to do that.
>> but if. Say the rose balm wanted to put in that I still wouldn't be
able to connect. Yeah we need obviously that's a great question.
we need to we need to figure that out. Okay.
>> um and then technically like the chairs and table. I think here we're going to
end up just so you know, is that if you're oing to hook up to electric, you're probably
going to have to force a special use permit. Okay.
> but I'm not 100% sure yet. You mean. As in just taking an extension
cord and plugging it in? Well, technically they shouldn't be plugging in an
extension cord. Technically they should be the rose barn or somebody else
should actually put a service in and you should plug in to that service right.
like that's how it should work. Is that.
>> what you do downtown? Yes I mean that's that's. Like an rv set up right down
but that's what they actually have a 30 or 50 amp service you're.
talking about down where the market is the market right. Yeah well I mean that's a.
>> that's a market. I mean I know I mean I just didn't get.
>> it's set up for that particular thing and so I. Think if if.
you're going to want to use electric you would have to figure out the service the same
thing this gentleman over here right he's got an ice cream shop and he's got to set up a
service then those things are probably if you're going to plug n to a permanent
structure you may have to get a special use permit for that. And so we're going to ave to
figure out what the right code is for that I don't think that's necessarily addressed in
in these comments today, but it's a great question that we're going to have to work
through. Right.
>> nd then as far as the for signs, if it's like a flag on the trailer which I don't have
right now. Mhm. But if that was.
attached to the trailer like that does that count as one of those signs.
I'll ask our team is the same the same question. The gentleman had the same
question over here in regards to the signage on the trailer itself if it counted or not.
um I we need to make sure how our team is anticipating addressing that.
and then. Let's see. I think there was um something
about tents so like I'm licensed through dpr. Yep.
and I'm able to also have a tent set up somewhere else if I wanted to under the same
license. Okay. So they just added that this
year. Oh okay. Okay.
>> um just because. It's like a separate location. It can be a separate location
or it can even be same location. Um, if I wanted to say they
have like a big event going on and I want to be set up one end to the other, okay, I'm able to
do that. Um. And I think what I was.
>> going. To ask.
>> do different rules apply to that? You mean same vendor wo spots
on the same location though. I mean we follow all the rules through the dpr, right?
we're going to have to have our team check. The db pr regulation and then
maybe modify our code. Mister chair yes. When you're done answering that
I want to ask staff a question. Okay go ahead. Let me let's just have her
finish. And then I think I have one more question to um so at
rotary baseball I did get approved for being a vendor there okay.
so I was just told to contact the county every time I go out there.
I mean that's still do the same thing. Yeah you can do that or we
can set up a like if you're if you're if you're going to rotary and then we can just
you go out there too if it's.- jim can. Probably jump on top of that
work for that. Thank you ma'am thank you. Good morning.
uh, jim. Coulthard, parks and.
>> recreation director. >> we do have a.
mobile food vendor packet. >> that we we issue.
uh, we also work with our municipalities.
>> even down in belleview. Uh, we work with. Down there, uh, chauncey.
shawna chauncey. So if.
>> people want to apply to have food trucks there you have to coordinate.
to the city. Then they have our packet. A an overlap but it works out
well okay. So they don't have to call every time necessarily once
they get approved they're approved. How does that work?
well we'd. Like to know the dates that they're having in there but
we'll we'll keep the packet nd just make sure they're insurance and we do have
background reason why we ave background screening requirements.
we want to make sure that all those drivers are background screening if they're going to
be in the parks um individually like that that's real important.
but once they go through the package they just need to notify us what things are going
to be there. >> yes sir.
and our staff is really great at walking people through the process.
very helpful. Thank you.
>> all right tiffany and todd are up next. It's it's tiffany here.
oh okay. Come on down sir. Name and address for the
record. Hi my.
>> name is todd foster I own odd todd's over in salt springs 735 nfr 75 fort mccoy.
um. I woke up the other morning to read this in the newspaper and
I was. Like.
>> holy cow, what's going on here? Um, I mean, I'm shocked uh, if
you would go and look at our present um, on facebook google you would see a very successful
business. Uh, and we uh, nine years ago we started actually a little
over nine years ago we started this uh, process looking in multiple counties to find a
location a complete atrix for every county that allows, uh, open air produce, uh, food
truck. Is it open ir? Uh or is it, uh, open air under
an enclosure? Saint johns county has a huge matrix.
we put um, hundreds of thousands of dollars we own uh uh, the whole front section of
commercial property in salt springs uh, next to the sunoco um and when I woke up and I
looked at this. Uh.
>> I was like okay, what does this mean? So then I called down to the
county. She said okay, go here and I and I, I read it my wife read
it to me and everything that's in there is contradictory to what we started nine years ago.
okay. All of the regulations and we don't move.
I have two food trucks one for catering, one stays there okay so I'm one of those that maybe
is the bad guy that doesn't move but my place is very clean okay?
it's very organized. It's uh um there's temporary tnts.
uh, I would consider like if you went down south to uh uh I mean we have produce.
uh. >> it's just it's a it's a
wonderful place people come for an experience. If I was to go and look at this
and like, uh, do under the sunshine act and say how in the world did this come about?
why did. Who brought this up to bring to you guys in the first place?
how did this start? I think we can. I could.
uh, logically say that there's been problems with food trucks getting together that created
this situation. Okay, well, te state has regulations that we have to
follow what we can hook into what we can't we have to have a commissary.
we have all these regulations. Um, I'm listening to music I was driving uh, can we have
music? Not have music. I was thinking of the vfw out
there in salt springs and they have music out there and then all of a sudden they have seven
food trucks around the baseball field. Heck, they're going to be in
violation of everything we're talking about here. Um, are they hooked up to
power? There's power out there. Can you hook up to power, not
hook up to power? Um, all of a sudden we have all this stuff that's struck of the
parking lot. Um, what's on the parking lot? What's not on the parking lot?
I've never had code enforcement out there o to get on my case about any of that stuff.
yeah. Road side, you know, some some signage, um.
that are on the early days uh, you know, people complaining that kind of stuff.
let me tell you what I've got photo photographs for this very reason right now of fire
trucks. Sheriff.
>> the sheriff cars, everybody how they're parked. Okay, we're out in the woods
and last thing they want is oversight of being told how and what.
now I understand there's got to be rules. But my.
whole business in I mean, I will make it through this. Trust me, I mean, I this isn't
going to stop me from what I'm doing. I can do other things to go and
maneuver around some of these things like two tables. You got to be kidding me.
two tables I have a it's like a restaurant and. The rules uh, so I'm going to
be punished because I have a very successful business and it comes out of a food truck.
um hmm. As I drove by the wilderness, uh, rv park out here, I was
thinking to myself ow these how these poor people every time they go around to all
these locations and they have to have a, um. A signature and there's got to
be notarized they may be in a month they may go to 35 different places.
that's 35 notaries just to go around. Um, that makes no sense to me.
uh, and especially when and then I own a 30 acre farm. So that even complicates this
because I have a farm and I'm doing, uh. Do the uh, ight to farm act
selling my. Product at my food truck that people come to buy organic
food. Okay. And you're going to take away
my right to be able so there's there's this gray area of if do I have power?
the very first thing that came from my mind is I have to prove to putnam county because I live
in putnam county. That my farm produces through my schedule f how I sell my
product. Okay and I'm making a profit. Well then now now now my right
is being taken away because I'm selling my product at this roadside stand.
it's been part of florida history for a very long time now we have two issues
going on. We've got. This conglomeration of food
trucks and individuals like myself and others and I think that there's a lot of ambiguity
in in these documents and there's stuff that's been stricken.
um, again, I don't have issues with anybody coming out to my place of business and giving me
a hard time. I follow the laws. I follow the regulations.
um, but I just think that this is. This document n itself needs a
lot of it needs lot of work and it will leave me no right other than how this is written
up. If you give me two tables. You will kill my you will kill
my business. If my business gets killed then I have to come back and I have
to say look at where like that's that's going to cause friction between the county and
myself and then not only that it's going to kill my farm. Okay, walden farms like if
sheriff I want to set up and I want to do agritourism I have the ight I have a full green
belt on my property. I can do all those things. Um, but the fact of the matter
is I have a massive amount of money invested in salt springs and that business is very
successful. And mrs. Alec, I know those people are chewing on you all
the time out there in salt springs about things going on. This business means a lot to
the people that are out there, okay? And there's not a lot of places
to eat. Um, but I myself am not a fan of the language that's in this
document yet. So appreciate. Your testimony.
uh, and I've been to your place a handful of times and so thank you for that.
and you know, the good thing about yours is that, you know, you're you own it.
right? And nd it's on a piece of commercial property and so it
is a little different but these are the cases that we need to look at to understand.
um and if it's outside of the requirements for a temporary or moving or whatever then again
we may have to go through a special use process. But I again I think all of
those things to your point are solvable.
>> you know the hard and the hard thing with that I, I bought and paid okay I owed no
money on this thing. I I purposely did what I did and now I had to come back and
I got to ask the government for especially in trust me I have. It's a busy.
place and so how how it zoned so many lots back or b2. Behind me.
>> is residential. >> um I.
>> have a couple I have a couple of folks that are in that neighborhood.
they probably would love to see me gone now. Now you're introducing these
folks into my livelihood that they're going to get a say hey ,that.
what? I don't like him. Make him k make him go away and
now I have to deal with that when I followed the rules from the eginning many years go
and now I see this flashing and you know, being able to pass this on to our children to be
able to carry this on I'm like ww, this is this is shocking. So all right.
thank you sir. Yeah thank you. All right anyone else want to
speak on food trucks yep okay. Come on down. Hi.
my name is carmen mervin 2166 northwest 10th street ocala. I've been following, um, these
meetings and unfortunately I've only been able to attend one, but I've written a couple of
letters and just like this gentleman who's four food trucks.
um, I have a lot of problems with what's going on here. I feel like you're trying to
regulate, um, two businesses that are very foreign. You have food vendors and then
food trucks and then you have produce sales. That's like trying to regulate
publix the same way you o mcdonald's. I mean, it's two totally
different types of businesses. So on one hand you tell the vegetable salesman that he
can have a permanent structure but then you tell the food truck he can't have a permanent
structure. So I'll get to some of my real issues that I have problems
with. Number one, my big issue the reason that drew me to this was
because a lot of these food trucks are coming out to a-1 properties.
I don't agree with food trucks locating in a-1 properties unless they are truly there for
one day and then they move because a-1 we live in farm areas.
um michelle stone, you live in a-1 property. I don't think you want to drive
out of your driveway and see a food truck sitting there, especially when now you're
going to tell the food truck if he has more than two employees he has to set up a port, a
toilet and a wash stand. So let me ask you does the porta toilet go on the back of
the food truck and leave when the food truck leaves and does the washed and leave when you
know I mean it's not realistic you know it's just not realistic and then you're
giving them four signs. My business gets one sign on the road and one sign on the
building. So it's different rules you know and I think you have to
have some consistency and I don't mind the food trucks in commercial areas or rural
activity centers I don't mind that at all. But he problem is when the
food trucks come out into a1 territories they tend to make themselves permanent.
and just like you said a minute ago karl, the lady wanted to keep her coffee station for 3
or 4 days. I understand for her it's a tremendous amount of ork to
pack up and leave. Yeah, but for us living in one area we don't want
permanent set ups next door to us. We don't want permanent food
trucks. You know, I've been in marion county a long time.
I have various businesses and every time I do a business I have to jump through the
regular hoops. I have to pay the bill. I have to pay the licensing.
I have to dig retention areas and do all these things. And I'm not asking that the
food trucks have to do this, but I think you need better rules and I know that the land
development group has worked very hard on this, but I still think you need a segregation
between food sales which are also governed by the state under the farm, you know,
trying to make farmers thrive and food trucks and when you say they have to have wheel
they're they're a mobile unit. They have wheels for a reason. They have wheels so they
can move and the minute you tell them hey can set up permanent structures oh you
can set up a tent. Well unfortunately then your poor code enforcement officer
now that tent stays there now she's going to have to be called out more often.
they set up lights they there are many ood trucks right now in marion county.
maybe not these nice people who are attending the meeting but there are many that are set up
permanently. They're not moving at all. There's one out by um the high
school on on 80th here's one down on 475. They have lights, they're set
up permanently and they're operating. I don't have an objection to
that so much when they're on commercial property but when they're on a1 property doing
that it's a no go for me and I think it should be not allowed at all ctually in a one.
but you have a hard job in front of you because you have to come up with rules that work
and rules that don't work your code enforcement officer to death thank you.
thank you appreciate it. Yes ma'am. Is there anybody else that
wanted to speak? Come on. If you come to this podium.
good morning. My name is. Katrina bakewell and I
apologize for not signing up ahead next time.
>> oh no. >> no it's fine.
uh, and I appreciate being heard. I'll make it as brief as I can.
um, I live at 16053 south highway 475. Probably live right next.
door to the food truck that's. Being mentioned. And I may be a little.
late to the party. Um, I bought of a farm and building a horse farm on um the
property that I purchased and it is zoned a1 uh, as are all of the properties along the
stretch where my uh, farm is located. I'm investing looking to buy uh
,area of acreage next door that's vacant and to build as there are a number of horse
farms along that stretch. Very nice ones, very high end ones that are being.
developed and um. ,so.
>> about a year ago my next door neighbor. Nice nice fellow um I think he
had a food truck that was uh part of that group that was disbanded over by marion oaks.
I go out and suddenly there's a a food stand next door to me and it's grown and now has a
like a tent structure. It's got tables and chairs. I has lighting.
uh, we see all kinds of trash a couple times week I make the trek out in front of my
property to go pick up all the trash because. We're very careful with that.
kind of. >> thing and, um, it's got big
signs that blow in the wind sometimes there's music and um, I guess I have the same concern
I just heard voiced no problem at all with food trucks. I mean I'm a fan of them
actually operating out of commercial spaces or semi commercial spaces.
but it's this kind of uh, location where we are I didn't buy the property to invest and
build it up and be part of that whole network of um forced businesses along there so that
I be next to ind of. Um noisy colorful uh uh, taco stand basically.
and o a slippery uh, I understand I'm late to the party n it but uh, now we're
talking about two. Uh.
>> food trucks per property. What if a year rom now we're talking about three suddenly
we're back to the whole location. So it is a slippery and it's
going to be a disincentive I'm now considering do I stay here and build and put more money
into building my farm and make that whole area in there kind of um, you know, to uh, upgrade
it in terms of the farm qualities or do I look to move to another location because
it's not the character of the property that I wanted o purchase and thought I did
purchase? Um.
>> second question really has to do with the code enforcement which I've called talked to a
very nice gentleman there several times very helpful. But um, as I understand it,
there's a limit to what can be done to bring uh, people like my neighbor into compliance
because he said 've been out there uh, we've sent letters cited the property.
um, but uh and the minute that they've done that everything goes back right?
right the way it was it's almost laughable. And uh and so the the lights
are back, the tables and chairs are back, the tent is back, the big signs are.
back and um, you know, I don't know where the teeth are in trms of the enforcement but
you know it's. It's and the laws are there for a reason but they only do so
much if there's no uh, force. Behind them. So I appreciate the chance to
be heard. Thank you.
>> appreciate it. Yes, ma'am. Good morning.
my name is. Tika johnson to. Cedar tree terrace.
um, I think that this ordinance is probably. Speaking about a food truck,
um, area. >> that my husband and I own.
there are. >> four food trucks there.
and a farm stand. Um.
>> the. Food trucks. Are not in commission monday
through wednesday and they open . Thursday through saturday.
so my question is um and they are on a. Property that is owned by the.
church and we all have um adequate. Permission from the church to
be there. So does it work out better or is this ordinance.
saying that if we're not there monday.
>> through. Wednesday we. Need to move the trucks.
and then bring them back. For thursday through saturday? But the reason.
>> why. They are. There seven.
days a. Week is. Because we are hooked up o.
electric, right? Um so I just want further. Clarification so that.
>> I can bring this information back to the. Property owner to see who he
needs to. Speak with or what. He needs to do.
>> to get the. Special permit. Or if.
>> that is something that's needed. Yes.
>> yes ma'am. >> I mean and that's and that's
the case we're kind of not not in your particular case but that is the scenario we're
talking about where people are just there all the time. They're hooked up to electric,
they're having those kind of things they're having when you have four trucks you're
bringing in more people a lot of times without adequate restrooms and all those kind of
things and it triggers that that part that we were talking about where really you need to
make sure you know, you would need to go through a site plan just like everybody else would
to build a permanent business. Right. And so um, I don't know that
all the answers that's the part of the process I'm going to have our staff walk through
like what what criteria but it sounds like you would meet that criteria.
you can either go down to wo okay right. Or you would need to then
go into building permanent. Infrastructure on the site. Right.
if you wanted to have 3 or. >> 4 or more.
of them because then at this point I think our our staff would look at you um
as becoming a food truck park. Okay.
>> so even if. Permanently there. Even if we made it through
wednesday, if. >> you.
moved it off site. That's going to. Come back.
>> when it's in service. But they have. Four trucks and a produce
stand. Yeah.
>> and so that's. That's the part I. Don't understand.
and so uh let me allow our our our team to address your particular situation as well.
uh I exactly what would need to happen okay. But I think today if they
pulled up on site and they were there seven days a week and not moving.
it would technically be a a food truck park. I think.
even if. >> you.
had four of them on the weekends you would still be a food truck park.
all right. So that's what I don't. 100% know if that qualifies,
but I want. >> to get our team to.
answer that and help walk through that process with you. Okay great.
thank you so much. Yes, ma'am. Hi.
>> my name is eric. Martinez and my 500 on. Southwest 20th street.
um I am a local vendor here. In ocala and. This touches a little deeper to
me because. Waldron farms has. Been supportive.
>> of. Me as a vendor and I've had the.
opportunity to also be supported. By the city amongst many other
things. I think we have to lead by example.
because obviously. Not many and even the biggest, maybe smallest part here in.
ocala that supports the food trucks is also not in. Compliance.
>> and the code. Enforcement for. Enforcement that's.
>> trying to be placed. >> it's not.
clear enough. Even for them when they speak. Up here.
and when you go to. Other cities in florida you see that.
the food trucks have. You know what you are looking for.
here but. >> it's because.
the city has these. Parking lots. Parks ready.
for them to be there. >> we also have to show them
the support so that they can comply with what we are looking for.
that's all I have to say. No and you're right in others in other cities and other towns
. It's not usually the city or the town but it is a property
owner will go through the process of building. The elements of a food truck,
parking them and allowing people to lease those out. Right.
and so um, in those cases that's fine. But it's it's it's when people
start setting up in higher numbers especially um without the infrastructure in place
that is necessary for the state.
>> and we have. >> to be fair to you, right?
I mean if you were investing I mean same thing if you have a food ruck and you pull up and
you compete with another small business, right, that spent $5 million to buy a building and
put in, you know, all of the infrastructure and all the things required and hooked up
to water and sewer and right like we have to be fair o those businesses as well.
and so again that's why the food truck thing it needs to be temporary.
if it becomes permanent well. >> then.
they need to be under. The same regulation. To be fair as a permanent
business is nd. That's that's the. Difference I think I don't know
commissioner if I'm wrong but. Yes there. Is the.
>> battle. This is the. Battle that.
>> we're that we're trying to figure out because I love the entrepreneurial spirit of a
food truck, right? I mean I love the hustle that something that people can go in
and do that but it needs to stay in that frame of being a temporary process versus when
you become permanent when you set down your stuff and you stay.
>> there 24 hours. >> a day and you hook up to
electric. As soon as you hook. Up to electric.
in all honesty. Now that infrastructure. Requires a different set of
rules. Um.
>> you're no longer mobile. You're no longer. Running off your own power uh,
in essence. Right. And so.
we're we're. Trying to figure out what's the right balance to allow those
operators to have. To have that and then also be fair to our uh, local
businesses as well that have to come under, you know, excessive uh, some in some case when you
have to run water and sewer and do all those things and parking lots and site plans and drc
and. Right right.
>> so and. >> so we're figuring.
that out the. Food trucks have to find a spot and not only do they have to
find a spot, they have to find a spot that needs to be compliant.
okay yes I. Know that. That's there.
>> so another thing that's their responsibility. Absolutely.
when their whole point was being mobile so there should be certain spots that should
already readily be available for those mobile. Trucks but private the private
sector the private. Sector is not government is. Not government.
>> job right. >> it's right it's not but not
everybody's complying. And the main area that we have here which is downtown market
obviously someone said you have to connect and they shouldn't be connecting.
so we. What do they have. .
>> yeah no they can kind of throw it out. Yeah right.
you can. Connect downtown because it's set up for that.
and there. >> are other places that could
be set up for that and and they're listen that one at some point a property owner will
find it profitable enough to set up like a mini you.
>> know. Rv park where you have. Slots and people ould come in
there with their food trucks and come in and set it up and if they want to do that.
that's fine. But you.
>> can't do it. Set up a uh a temporary uh or a permanent food truck park
without the nfrastructure in place. So um so those are the
differences. Thank you.
>> thank you, mister goody. Give me going 1531. Southeast 36th avenue.
I'll be brief. This is a really good public hearing.
um. >> I recently.
got appointed ldc. And attended their last meeting on this issue and.
frankly I didn't. Realize as.
>> many issues as they were. It looks to me like y'all had to decide a couple of things or
get staff to work on them. One is this a1 zoning issue. The second is the electric
hookups but my concern is not related to that particularly my concern is that it appears that
we are headed to a scheme that's going to require more special use permits.
um, you already have capped those at ten a month. Um, I'm going to ask you all to
be thinking in the back of your heads just not right to this issue about perhaps increasing
that cap. We've been hitting that cap lately and postponing
applications because of it. Now we're going to put another layer on them including I think
what's going to be a rush to get more than two uh uh, food trucks approved on the existing
site. So that's ust for y'all to be. Thinking about later.
but I did want to mention it because it is of a concern. My last concern is it's really
I'm not here for this. It's really tough. Listen to this.
I'm a big food truck fan, can I ask I know e're not supposed to speak to them, but.
I know their. Trucks set up outside that we could.
>> go. After this year.
>> you know. >> you wouldn't.
it would have happened. Somebody would have.
>> brought a thought that they. >> would have brought us some
barbecue. Ice cream or some. Coffee and you know what I
mean? You know. Just kidding.
thanks, jimmy. Thanks.
>> okay. >> he might be kidding, but I'm
not because I'm getting hungry and we all know how grumpy I get when I get hungry.
all right, we. Got a lot I can. Tell you.
>> there was a lot of. Questions there. Let's talk through.
okay? Let's talk through the questions that the he the
folks had and and let's um. And let's work on bringing back language that helps o address
these things and and uh and I think to um I believe was carmen's point we may need to
differentiate these produce stands and I think that point may be well taken, uh, because.
I think that helps us to address the ag issue as well because the.
farm stand on. >> a on a piece of ag hat
produces there ain't nothing we can do about that that needs to be held in right by by by the
farm act but a food truck in there maybe we need to be looking at so.
and mister chair yes what I was going to talk about earlier but now that we've are we done with
public comment. >> as far as I know yes.
there was no one else right. Got everybody yes ma'am. Okay we're done.
so the other thing that I think staff needs to do is they do need to take a look at an ldr,
see if they have to if they have another meeting before our next public hearing because
this is I. >> don't think so.
I mean not on this. We may.
>> have to push this we might have. To push this one off.
but we need to look at the regulations that dpr does require and instead of having
that incorporated into our land development code, that could just be a sheet that goes along
that you could say referencing that they have to meet all the requirements of dpr and you
reference what those requirements are instead of making them separate elements
within the land development code. And also take a look at what
all that what are the requirements from dpr are. It ight already answer some of
the stuff hat we're talking about right now. So I definitely think there to
be a whole lot more work on this before it's brought back.
>> and I would. I do we need.
>> to have that. Some of those references from dpr.
>> in. Our ordinance or no. Not if you just say.
blanket statement meets requirements.
>> just like we have. Yeah to.
>> the state. Statute correct? Yeah like that's adequate.
all right can. And for one to as they change we wouldn't have to go back and
amend. This correct. So a couple of things.
a lot of notes here. Um connecting to electric. The for signs with the same
with the size um as. No more no larger than six square feet in size um site
restrooms for two or more employees and wash stations. Um all.
of that has been in the code since 2013 with all of that came into the code and um.
so but just to answer the questions on the signage right is is the sign on the truck
counted to the four or they can have the for like basically yard signs going down the
street or flags on the truck or whatever like what counts as signage let's just so.
flags and signs are the same thing. Okay no code.
um if it's a menu board on the truck. Yes sir.
I don't believe we view that as a we do not really view that as a sign.
common sense would say wanted. I wanted just to make, um confirmation code enforcement
since they're the ones I'm. Sure no I want to make sure. Um, so we're looking at just
the actual signs that are posted out and they can't be in the right of way and they can't
be in the easement. So if you have a flag that counts as one if.
you and then you can have three more signs yard signs or whatever, right?
>> as long as they're under six feet and six square foot and signs.
um um so on the ice um so just one note um the nest over at kolesar that's being.
built um, when they came in with their pd modification most recently they included food
trucks as a and they put in parking and pedestals for those food.
>> trucks to be able to come in and hook up right. So so it's.
made for that. So yes they went through the process to do that.
um anything that has a power pole connected to electricity they would need a special use
permit. More than two trucks on site. They need a special use permit.
uh, we can look into if they were going to have it for the weekend and they're going to
have a bunch of trucks over. That would be a special event permit.
ideally the church school apartment complex business has filed the appropriate package
for the special use permit and they can or special event permit and they can do a
special event permit once per quarter. Um so if it but and answer the
young lady's question if if they have four trucks on site at the church.
they can. >> they can have a special
event if they're doing something per quarter or for whatever.
right. And then they can have that many otherwise they have to
go down under two if they're going to have them there. And that one the most recent
one. So they.
>> also have. The four trucks produce stand and a electric connection.
um so that one they would they really need a special a special use permit because they're
there every week you know they're not moving they're just.
they're they're just they're okay. Um and.
ken are we calling I mean connecting to electric. We're I mean, that's as simple
as running an extension cord from an existing. Yes.
>> yeah. >> and that's the way we've
been. Um.
>> doing the regulations series 2013. So is that a building permit.
issue or is that a building and safety issue? Yes okay.
and we would require special and for. The rose barn that's inside the
city of ocala. So right there code nforcement will take care of that if
that's an issue. We're just talking about marion county right.
and and understanding that. Um food truck vendors. While the workers are inside
the truck, most of their activity is outside and in most of you know, most of our, uh,
commercial zoning we require everything to happen in an enclosed building.
so there's also a concern when it comes to these regulations is we're now allowing outside
uses outside tables. Um, uh, one question that I'll have to look into is.
uh a. Couple of them come up and they said they have generators.
it seems like running 24 seven. Um especially in like one like so if somebody had a commercial
vehicle the first regulation we put on it is no commercial refrigeration.
no. Yes.
>> yeah. Um so that's a that is a concern because you don't want
that noise to be a nuisance to the neighbors and residential or agricultural areas.
u. >> when it when we're looking
at when we're looking at the um notarized permission robin and I were speaking and she
mentioned if we were to get written permission from the owner with the owner's contact
information. So it became an issue. What I thought would be.
good let's let's just be able to check let's contact the owner okay.
so they don't need it. So we did hat they don't need a notarization we just need to
be able to contact the owner if it seems a little iffy right.
>> so if we approach if code enforcement approaches somebody on a piece of property they
just need to be able to produce proof that they got permission from the property owner with a
name number and a contact information. Right I like that and that's
easier. For the owner and commissioner. Yeah it probably need.
>> to be more than just the owner. It could be the lease holder.
it could be the agent. One of those three people who represent the property.
it hould. >> be satisfactory right?
yes foreign language for that. And as.
>> far as. It having to be notarized. I think he just pulled that
out. >> yeah we would pull that out.
so an authorized signature. And authorized like there's. Some business folks.
um or even if you wanted to do it from the if somebody was leasing from a property if they
if they signed off on it and it was an issue we would then go after the property owner.
right. And then they would have to go after their tenant and.
or but at least. >> at least we know that the
food truck got permission from somebody right. And so.
that's that's the whole thing. So at that. Point it's not the food.
truck exactly. Oh it's. Somebody else doing.
>> something um talked about special events maintaining mobility.
we discussed that early earlier and we I think that would help you know for the vehicles
as long as they an maintain mobility and they can leave the site if needed to especially in
cases of emergencies. Um, there ay be a desire to rework the a1 portion a little
bit because if there are trucks there just parked there the whole time I don't know what
you want to do with that. Um.
>> you ant them to come and go every day? We don't have a they can only
be open from this time to this time.
>> I. Think I think that I'm not sure that they should be allowed by
right and they want anyway I think that's probably the bigger conversation.
and okay and then going back to the um the zoning classifications, I did forget
to mention that we are proposing to add to our c1 and g2 is those three zoning are
more commercial in nature or industrial. Yeah.
so I think if we take out the a's then we'll be fine. And do the a's by special use
permit. Yeah they got to go especially if.
>> they want to be. >> there for more than you know
like a weekend right. And for now we'll add that language to this so that it's
at least listed. I think so um unless the board has a.
different due to the you can't ask for a special use permit in a1 unless it's specifically
listed somewhere so we can add it here. And list it so that they
can apply. Yes okay. I think that would be better.
and then when we come back to the a1 here in a little bit that ould be a listed special
use permit request. Mhm mhm. And what.
wre we adding into our c1 and. Greek government use. So right.
there yeah yeah. >> so that allows them to
operate in our. Parks or in. Some other event or.
here at a library okay at fire station if they wanted to do I mean when I was a kid they did
the halloween at the fire station out in the florida highlands and.
>> right you want to make sure that that's available. When it comes to produce stands
so we don't allow permanent structures through the the roads temporary uh, roadside
vendors. But if it's a produce stand on a farm that's under the state
statutes, right. They have to get permits or that stand everything else.
we don't allow for a permanent structure. However, if it is a temporary.
tent pole barn facility or temporary structure they do need to get permits and that
might be for like your. Um christmas trees and stuff like that when they put up the
big tent for the christmas trees. I don't think we see a whole
lot of those in the county um anymore mostly. Populated area.
yeah they do have in town but. Yes, I don't know if we do any in the in the county anymore I
think. So but that's been in the code since 2013 okay.
and then we need to address the the gentleman's question about you.
know the. The food inside the trailer. So yes.
right now it says overnight food vegetables produce and that storage is not permitted.
did you. >> mean.
inside the trailer or. >> did.
you we can clarify if you would like to. Put it.
>> we need to put contained must be contained. It is not restored outside or
whatever. Then t becomes a question of if it's a do they have a
generator to keep it nice and cool. You know.
> where are they located, what's adjacent to them kind of question and that's here I
understand it was a question you know you know we regulate but we do regulate publix at
mcdonald's the same when that came up. But so we're trying to treat
everybody the same here. You know we're not saying if you're in on a highway 200
corridor and be two away from all the way from any residential uses, you do this
but if you're out somewhere where in the in the rural areas next to a bunch of homes then
you do this. We don't have that and built into this.
so well yeah but. There's also I mean in essence listen if they want to run
their generator and it's not causing an issue. Right right.
because there's a lot of them out there that are really quiet now.
oh yes right. And so they may I've run to several of them they make no
noise. Yeah so it could be a non-issue.
right that's true. But if it is an issue and it's audible off the property then
we take care of it through the sound ordinance that generator can't run.
I think we can do it that way. >> so you're just going to put
no outside. No outside overnight. Food vegetable produce it's
better for storage. >> there is going to be no
matter which one of these whenever they close up the food truck they're going to have
food in. >> it.
at ome sort right? I mean that's okay right?
>> I mean how do you how do you not have something in there? Okay we can put it outside.
and robin mentioned that this may be covered under the dpr. I bet you most f it is.
can we just check that? Yeah. Before we.
mister chair, can I just. Make a suggestion? Let's have staff go back and
look at everything that we've. >> asked.
them to look at and bring this back revised. It's way too many changes.
>> there's a I mean and then we're going to have to have another we're.
going to have. >> to.
have some more. Time to look over it. I mean they have a list of all
the questions and and all the concerns. We're trying to work through
this on the dais and. Yes it needs it needs a lot of work.
>> all right well. We'll we'll take it back going to be.
able to dated. September 14th.
>> no no but. >> I think they want to send it
back so send it back and then we can maybe hear this in october or something like that.
we can we will have I don't know. In the land development codes
meetings. We will have one drc meeting before the september.
>> 14th okay. And we can put this on there. Put it on there and see what we
can do. Then we if we come. Back if it's ready bring it
back. If it's not we'll. Bring it back and.
may I squeeze. >> it I mean yeah give him some
elders he's looking at a lot. Yeah I wouldn't say it's to try and squeeze this.
okay o we'll we'll. Just get let's get time to work on this.
we'll put it back into the cycle let it work through drc and come back with it.
yeah and I. >> would say too I would give
all of the people that have come out today make sure that we have all their contact
information so that they know when that ldr rc meeting is happening so they can come and
be a part of the process. >> well they've all been here
today and have heard what we're trying to do and it's not no one's trying to shut them down
or hurt them. So if you have suggestions about how we can fix the
problem that we're trying to fix without impacting you know the people who are doing it
right, send us those suggestions of how we can how we can do that.
yeah. >> can you have somebody from
staff meet everybody out in the lobby when we move into the next portion of our public
hearing so that we ake sure we have everyone's contact information?
can someone take one of these sheets and give it to who's presenting next, who's who's
not presenting next. I'm presenting next them. There you go check and grab
this. I know.
>> but then we can we can get the information on there and get a copy.
>> of it. Thank you.
>> thanks 14. I think he's got people out there.
all right so commissioners we're going to send this back to ask you to
work through. Yes yes. All right.
item number one of six. Moving to.
>> number two moving to. Number three. Oh yes three.
I just. >> is reminding us what.
we have in. Front of us. Yeah why how did this happen.
this was a. >> yeah how did we end up with
all of this with a scheduled to our public hearing. Because we should have been
better. We're counting on you to be better.
no way. This should not have been scheduled like this is what I'm
saying. Um.
>> should have been taken in a couple of different. We can take it differently.
all right. >> so thank you.
all for being here. We appreciate it. Um.
all right, you guys need. All good. We need a couple.
minutes now. We need to move along. Let's go.
all right. >> henry, deputy director,
growth services, this is section 4.3.30. .
>> we were scheduled for. Uh, this is a this would be a new section under, um, special
requirements of zoning. Spoke shops. So the.
one note hat we would like to say from what was published versus what's here today in the
red you'll see. Um we have changed the language a little bit just to include
schools, licensed daycare center, church place of worship or public park to be consistent
throughout the whole document so that they're in the same order.
and every time one of these items were mentioned all of them were mentioned and we
mimic this language off of the separation for alcohol.
>> sales or. You know, for on-site consumption or offsite
consumption and. Um.
>> you want to go through this line by line or. Mister just.
>> want me to summarize what. I'm good with.
>> you can just. >> give us a summary.
I just have one addition I'd like to include and that would be to insert language for the
synthetic kratom. That that's not in here. Yeah that was one of the things
commissioner stern that I wanted to do as well. Um, except that I think I think
trying to put synthetic in there is going to be an issue. I'm okay with just saying
kratom in general at smoke shops next to schools. I don't care if it's that way.
we don't get into this thing of having to have code enforcement go test if this is synthetic or
not. Okay there.
>> you go. >> yeah I'm fine.
oay so this is. >> it's.
not banning it. It's just. Only in these shops next to
schools in these places where. You want that item to only be sold in these two shops.
so what you're asking. Not to be sold in these shops in these locations.
not to be sold in these locations. So where it says no commercial
establishment use for premises selling consumption of tobacco ,tobacco, tobacco products,
tobacco paraphernalia or kratom . Okay exactly.
as my thought. But yes. So how does.
that goes? I fall into place it with a c store.
that already in those locations . Well those are those are
grandfathered. We can't do anything about that.
it's just that there will be no new establishments. But I would note though that.
um ike we had in the discussion last week uh, you know, we're waiting on dea to
do whatever they're going to do but there's currently the statute the 500.092 that all
florida statute that already bans sale of even the leaves or t to people under 21.
right. >> so if it's close to school
presumably all those kids. Those tobacco though. Yeah and.
that's the. >> that's the.
>> point okay. Back when tobacco products are not supposed.
over 18 year. Why why do we I mean why. Do we.
>> need to I'm just out of curiosity why do you call out. Great freedom?
I mean. When you're not calling out tobacco or any other derivative
of that we. >> are we.
are calling it out tobacco. >> we're calling out tobacco
tobacco products and tobacco paraphernalia. Yeah.
>> and I just want to include kratom after that so that you don't have a standalone kratom.
I'm not a smoke shop. I'm just selling kratom. Okay.
>> yeah okay. I see what you're saying.
> mr.. Sure.
>> thank you. Yes, commissioner. Um or any of the changes.
um. Do we have any current businesses that are operating
that would. Violate these. Changes and.
is there. >> going to be a grandfather
clause. Or what. If here is.
>> a grandfather in here. I know, I know there's one shop this next to anthony.
it's going to be the one at least that I know of and there might be more but I know that
there's that because I get complaints on the one and anthony.
all the time. But is it.
>> going to be grandfathered? >> it has to be grandfathered
okay. Yeah so there needs to be some. Line yeah.
it's so on the item see here I apologize we don't have the. Um line numbers here but item
c. Yeah it says. Establishments existing.
um on this the effective date of this code do not that do not meet the above requirements
shall be deemed preexisting and nonconforming uses so it would just be preexisting
nonconforming and we would let them live out their business life if they happen to close
they try to come back later than they would have to follow the code.
okay okay. Any other questions or comments for staff?
anyone in the public want to speak on this? Any anyone else?
mhm. >> come on down.
southeast 36th avenue I would suggest instead of adding the word kratom that you say kratom
product as defined in section whatever it was or as defined in florida law because all
somebody has to do is put a different label on it and say oh this isn't right um this is
k12 or something. So you need to define what it is with kratom and mr. Minor
cited the correct statute you can either get definition out of that or you can say create
product as defined in section. So it's just a.
>> suggestion. Thank you right mhm. Good suggestion for ra.
morning. My name is joseph walker. I live at 18820.
southeast fourthly. Oklahoma florida 32179. And I see we're going to be
talking about smoke shop just also going to include alcohol places too around schools and
parks. That's already in place that's been in place yes sir.
well I. >> my my biggest problem is.
they don't maintain the properties. We have.
them in the forest area. We have. People they buy.
>> the liquor there and they go on to a county park. And also on our first.
slide library. >> which is coming property and
grant can do the drugs back in there. Are we going to have.
something in here that said. We have to they.
>> have. To. Maintain the properties.
along side here. And then when in push from beginning to get from these.
so-called stores and stuff. That don't comply with the. Laws on.
it we have garbage, we have litter, we have them you know, we have fences down because
they're not repaired. On a here. And we need to have something
called here says we have to maintain properties on here even with the alcohol stuff
here so we don't get the kids to start. Happening and.
>> there's no reason why we don't have an enforcement. Of litter laws and garbage laws
in here that require them to maintain the properties. You know, it just ain't the
smoke shops only it's and liquor stores also it's the. Whole that about that issue
mr.. Um walker thank you and mr. Chair if you don't mind me
saying um yeah that that's not necessarily what we're addressing here today in this
particular well. >> I.
understand what I'm looking at. What I'm looking at is here is we have an orange n there.
it says when they don't maintain the property and let illegal activities go on here
we can pull their license and get it out of here. That's what I'm.
looking at. >> yeah.
>> and mr. Walker, we can enforce, you know, regulations and littering and
loitering and all that kind of stuff on their property. But you know we can't if
somebody walked across. >> the street.
I don't know how you would enforce that on on a county property enforce that against
them. The law says e ain't supposed to have liquor on the property
anyhow and our our county property and nobody nobody enforces it.
so well we enforce it when we see it or we get a complaint. So thank you for your comment.
all right commissioner. Hey I got one more I mean is this going to cover tobacco?
is this going to cover vape vape products I mean is that considered tobacco and.
yes but we can clarify just to be sure please we can. Because I think because that's
because that's you know, I just says smoke shops and is this tobacco tobacco products
tobacco paraphernalia I don't know f vape products are considered tobacco.
um, now that we're talking about definitions and statute and stuff that's what brought
it up. The vape part I think is even more so the the concern if
someone were to just say well I don't have any tobacco, I only have nicotine products.
um, that's actually more of. >> the issue that.
>> you're. Trying to. Capture is all.
these all. >> these.
color off and you look at that for us please. Raspberry flavored vapes.
and stuff. We need we need a definition for that.
we I think you should do it. If we're going to get into legal definitions.
all right. >> any other questions or
comments. Mhm.
>> and can you get from us. I'm good. All right.
so move this on to the. September chairman. Uh yes.
uh what mr. Walker was just referring to um uh is here any chance of incorporating ome of
that wording in the litter ordinance in terms of responsibility keep things
clean property requirements? Um, that would be the place for it.
yeah. Maybe a better place for it. Associated not here but if we
could just look at that and see if it could be as simple as and inserting something in that
ordinance. Any other questions or comments ?
commissioners you go ahead and move this on. September september 14th all
right we're good to go. All right number four. Uh good morning
cmmissioners jim cooler your county's landscape architect. Uh uh, number four is actually
definitions and if if I may entertain you of moving trees ahead of definitions because
there's some discussions within the tree code that will affect definition.
oh that's a. >> good point okay.
could move on to number five. Yes, sir. Uh, that'd be great.
um. Yes, sir. Uh.
>> uh, commissioners, I did provide you with a packet on the left side of each one of
your, um, workstations there that had some, uh, hard copies .
these were these are and the clerk has this the county administration team has it
as well. Um.
>> staff went through all of the ldr changes. We found a couple of things
that we think we should adjust. Um, and we can go line item by line item through uh, the drc
version so we can uh, tell you where we align and uh where we do not align.
okay. >> uh so we're going to start
first with um tree protection. Uh. Hans got.
>> this up on the screen and this includes our our edits as well.
um and I'm going to use the term support or not support when we come across some of
their changes for you. So we're clear and then we're going to just keep on moving
okay. Uh so your first one is n line uh page one and line b or
excuse me on line 11 uh with the word trees uh being replaced by new we support
that. Um go ahead scroll down the bottom can uh here's the, u
agricultural clawback. We support the removal of that as well.
um, you're on ine 30 here. It's that item d yep. Uh, we're going to go to the
next page line three here's a proposed change. Um, so the tree removal of
trees that have a dba of less than the current code which was approved on july 7th or eighth,
uh, this commission has t as 20in but going back through this code uh, and shade tree
credits and everything else and the other credits that they're being they're asking for uh
we're proposing to go back to the 2013 definition of regulated tree going back down
to ten inches. Uh, 've talked o some of our local landscape architects and
they're at all that we actually raised it to 20. There's a lot of good trees
that are between 10 and 19in um that we should be preserving as well and count those
as trees that need to be re uh re replaced so we support the the strikethrough of as in
conservation and the add of as replacement. Yet the change that we're
looking for today would be to go from ten inches or may 20th inches down to ten.
uh and there's more discussion about that and some of the future tables to help anchor
your decision. Um what um know we're going to get there at some point, but
just since we're here now. Um.
>> hen we do the the the credits for the trees, what size do they start up?
uh, right now they're being proposed from 4 inch to 9 inch and then above and I think
that's where the disparity is if we're going to give credits for shade trees uh, reserving
four inch trees we should regulate at ten inches and move over.
thank you. >> and that's what I was going
to allude to in the future. Bt thank you. Uh, commissioner mcclain.
uh, the next change, um, is on line 19 of page two we support um we that is a staff edit uh,
you see the strike through uf ifas assessment of non-native plants in the landscape code we
did shift over to the florida invasive species council. Uh, so I just made that change
to be consistent between trees uh, the the tree section and the andscape section.
um this next section here which says the area on line 30 uh, we support that uh we also support
the item uh in five except for the word as non-viable. Uh, we'd prefer to have that
removed. Uh, but the rest of the the additions and deletions in that
section are so we support. There's no changes on page three.
that's all about the tree protection and the critical zones we get into.
um page four um item 14 the county's landscape architect designee we do we are proposing
a change um in this section because this relates to the. Pre construction inspection and
the final tree inspection at the bottom of this this uh article um so we can we'll get
to that and refer back to this. But what this is actually showing is that a pre clearing
grubbing grading on site review of all required tree protection barricades shall be conducted
in accordance with section 6.7. 12 which is at the bottom of this section and required
certification shall be provided to the county's landscape architect or their designee.
ecuse me uh on that typo prior to any clearing grubbing grading operations.
um so that would effectively replace their proposed uh if the county fails to inspect
within ten days, they can proceed with. The work we can get.
if you'd like, I an jump down to 6.7. 12 to see how that ties in.
uh or we can get there. I would discuss it when we get there and then follow back up
with that. Either way I'm prepared. Yep.
>> go ahead. You want to.
>> go to it. Please jump to it. Commissioner mcclain would like
to see it. >> yes, sir.
what page is that on? Uh, so it is on page. Where are we at here.
make sure age ten. Page ten. Page ten I don't have the page
dividers up. Thank you.
>> there we go. So, um, so what we've done here uh, with the re-construction
remember this was something that we had as our team would go out and do the
pre-construction inspections. Uh, dr rc came n with the proposal uh or the
appropriately licensed design professional designated by the applicant so the or in that
would pretty much default to them using their la or their engineer whoever that
pofessional is. So what we're proposing is to say uh to remove the county's
landscape architect, our team's job of going out and do those inspections and putting it
solely on the appropriately licensed design professional whether it's the la or the
civil engineer for the project . And then they would certify
that they've completed that post or pre-construction through a certification signed
and sealed letter to our department saying yes they have done that.
they have inspected the tree barricades, they are installed prior to construction that
takes us out of the mix. It does not delay anything on our end.
we are not uh. Cog a block any cog in any wheel.
um it also helps defer liability uh, towards the county and that's important.
um, the same idea is in the post construction um opportunity here where we've
also removed the county's landscape architect and our designee and put it solely on
the design professionals license. Sure.
um, there is an option that we do have provided an item c in lieu of applicant designating
their appropriately licensed design professional to onduct the preconstruction inspection
or the final inspection. They may equest us to do that for an appropriate fee and our
fes resolution. That's good.
>> hey on the pre-approval. >> yes sir.
besides just a letter can we also have them provide you know the documentation that
it was done for photographs? I mean typically they had to do that anyway right?
I that may be a little redundant if they're if they're providing a letter on their
letterhead that signed sealed then uh that's good enough. We'll put that into the epl
system will be on the record for that parcel and then the same thing would happen at the
final okay. >> so if.
>> they've disturbed any root zones or if they've created any danger positions or these trees
are no longer viable that's that's for them to take care.
>> of. Okay I'm good.
>> with that. So it all ties together back up with the original section 6.7.3
and we're going to go back to uh page. We're going to jump to page
five then um which starts off with some uh of the shade tree credits that we were talking
about just a moment ago. On the table. Ys, sir.
there's a couple of words up here. Uh, some changes we support all
of these changes. You'll see assessment substituted with the word
evaluation which we are fine with. Uh other other a little clean
up in here is all good. It's been very helpful. Jessica and her team have been
great with some of these changes and made everything a lot more consistent.
um, so here's the shade tree credit table. Um, and you can see that they
had gone down to 4 inch to 9 inch on getting credits for shade saving trees that small.
if we're giving people credit for saving trees that small, then let's make sure that we're
at a decent level for protecting and regulating trees .
um, even with the proposed uh hey, they're only going to get credit if they meet a certain
standard. You can see that sub note underneath the table it would
have read to receive credit preserve shade trees under ten inches gain uh shall be uh
florida number two quality or better established by grades and standards.
so that means their la or their engineer which I've cautioned them about is going out and
evaluating every tree as a potential save if you just lump them in is regulated trees at
ten inches it over you've automatically drawn the line at ten inches.
anything below ten inches you can remove without without permission.
I saves a lot of time, it saves a lot and. It removes lot.
of confusion in the shade tree and the credits and the replacement requirements.
put remove the 4 to 9 yes. >> yep so our suggestion was
remove 4 to 9 and then they did consolidate the sizes. So yes.
you're good with that. Yes sir.
>> yes I am very um and they did consolidate the sizes for trade you credits from uh 10
inch to 29 inch it's one credit and then you can see down there from 30 to 35 it's two and 36
and above is three. We're good with all this changes.
um the the next uh edit here on e they have uh minimum size caliper 3.5in.
this is just repeating and clarifying what's in the landscape code as this is the
tree code they brought it in which is an appropriate reference.
so we support that. Um I am skipping ahead um and just just for reference I make
sure everybody knows this the black text you see is. What we what.
>> we already done right? Yep. It's what you already adopted.
um um 6.7.7 at the top of page 11 or excuse me page 711 um item b is uh, a strikethrough
request. Uh, the applicant will be required to revise and update
to the tree preservation information. We support that removal.
uh, edit um here's one that we do not support and that would be under perrin three the
protected tree eplacement requirements. Um, that sentence under
parentheses is in no case shall the replacement tree count exceed 100in per acre.
that automatically brings us back to the 2013 ode. Yeah.
>> uh, so we we do not support that addition. And get rid of that.
we didn't even have it in our other correct. We only do a different system.
yep. Very good.
>> yeah okay next one uh. The one below that where regulated trees do not have
federal exemptions we support that uh we support uh the the part underneath here which is
permissible the typo correcting that and then the assessment the evaluation um this this is
another one we do not support per into the specimen tree is located within or materially
interferes with the proposed building footprint. Uh, this would essentially take
your specimen tree regulation and throw it out the window. Uh, we'd still believe and the
opportunity to work with applicants to to see what we can do is a balance between
their proposed tree preservation and their desire to develop a site and that'll
work out well, um, we have w've had great success doing that.
that's what we've talked. About that they have to if they have to remove it and it's
special and they have to at least demonstrate it. Yes.
okay. So we need to go back to what we had.
yes like that okay. Uh bottom of that you see existing change preserve that's
fine. Um then we get into page eight item 14 uh, removal of 25% of
the trees cannot canopy ithout the approval of an arborist or landscape architect.
this is about tree abuse. This is a good addition. We support that.
okay. >> uh, then we get into item g
where you see the preservation of existing regulated says noninvasive I would strike
noninvasive so we don't support that and I would keep the term regulated here um because then
you start going down into the whole tree replacement criteria uh tree preserve criteria and
it starts at ten inches. So again we're going back to the ten inches consistently.
we were okay with leaving that uh as they're proposed but that top section there we would like
to strike uh noninvasive and leave the term. Regulated.
>> okay. >> quick question.
um I think I asked you this before I can't remember what your answer or any of our
regulated trees considered invasive. No.
>> they're not invasive anyway . Right.
>> um, we do require the removal of invasive species within the project area and
that's been a change in hat it's not.
>> the entire project site. We're only. Looking for he project area
within that. So if they're working on large piece of property they
just want to. Do a project n a corner of it. Then we only focus on the
removal of invasive species in that. Um it makes a lot more sense uh
this big uh strikethrough on h item line 15 we support that because uh, through mr.
gooding's help we were ble to combine h in the eye and clarify that the only change
that we need to make is on line 20 where it's reference is 20 inch.
we want to make sure that we're consistent and use ten inch uh the rest of that paragraph we
support. Uh tree mitigation fund. Uh this was a revision comes
from county administration uh, that last sentence there this fund shall be used to enhance
tree replacement on county owned and or managed property period.
um um that's good. That'll allow for parks libraries right of ways
whichever we can do to help the county enhance our our ssets. .
um and then we have we support the tree the strike through the tree mitigation section here on
item b and then the uh the solid the the point down in paragraph c about the process
of determining the cost for tree mitigation. That's what we do already and
we support that. There was a typo in the reference to development review
it said commission we clarified that with committee and then in paragraph d on the following
page we had the same the same edit uh committee was uh changed or commission was
changed to committee. Um and tree maintenance and management uh the we support
this addition and strike through here appropriate notice and governing documents for the
community. . Um and then we get into tree
inspections. We've already talked about 6.7. 12 and how that system would
change for preconstruction and final uh inspections. Um, that.
mr. Chair, board members summarizes all the changes that we support and do not support.
for are e are we keeping that in in 067 12. Um things forgot.
the pre the preconstruction inspection can be done by any anybody the designee and the
post. Uh yeah for both of them would be consistent so hey're
they're um licensed professional can do that. Uh liz just jumped up and
pointed out. Which section was. That was.
>> 710 d okay. Um I need to go back up I miss I lew by a rather.
quickly here. I am back on page ten at the very top line one payment into
the tree mitigation fund and it was proposed to be shall uh actually it was right.
proposed to be may and with um . We partial and now they're
proposing striking shall and proposing may. Yes we wanted to change that
back. Shall yes.
>> and then jim can you. Go to um there's another strike through six 712.
on item c um that's. Through because.
>> I uh that's right. We do not support that.
>> we don't support right. So they damage it. They should have to replace it.
yes. Reconstruction we do ot support that okay.
commissioners, are you okay with keeping that? It's um.
page 11. Line for item c. If the tree you know if
basically the save the tree and then the ree is is damaged during.
construction there should be. No point is to say right tree and if they don't correct then
we need to have the ability to replace the tree. Or whatever that is.
they struck it. Right right.
>> we want we don't we don't. Support the donation. Right.
>> okay so that was everything there. Yes okay commissioners any
other questions for. >> staff.
yeah can I go back to six 710 the last one that you just did. So you're changing made a shout
or show why what's. The yeah um. I don't understand what they
were originally. And just refer to my notes that on my document. T circle-
so what what that says if it's if it's we already know the difference between shall and
may but I do believe it needs to stay is may because now you're saying that it has to be
approved. You want it to.
>> stay my getting confused. >> yeah.
you're getting it confused. I was gonna say.
>> you're sorry. I was like getting enamored with smoke shops and trucks
and. And we want to make it commissioner.
either way, if it's not approved by the by then they go to the.
>> it. Does it.
>> all and brc would make the. All of this does.
>> yeah. So may is fine then. Yes ma'am.
mayo shell would. >> work I'll.
put a. >> slash there like a.
there were some relief so we're leaving may as well as the rest of the green line.
yeah yeah yes. And we're adding. Uh adding anything back.
there okay. On the other places that we talked about.
yeah I just heard a comment from the audience that might come up so subject.
>> for approval. Um.
>> we'll discuss that in public. Comment okay.
>> anything else? Okay. Yes.
guy jim, did you go over he um, comments at the top f page 11?
yes. >> okay.
>> you covered then. Okay. Yep.
>> that was all the inspections okay. Are we good guy yeah.
all right. I had jessica eisenman signed up.
getting your not signed up. I'm just kidding. No, sir.
oh. I think we need to keep things in order here.
so, mr. Goodwin, can you go sit back down? I was going to preface I was
going to ive a introduction for her. Kind of.
>> jimmy gooding 1531 southeast 36th avenue. Um.
>> I'm glad to say I got two minutes. I'm glad to see that staff's
okay with some of this, but I'm a little confused by this late document here.
um, we went to great lengths at these ldc meetings to try and get input from staff and some
of these things. In jim's defense he brought out he wasn't happy with them.
um but others are a great surprise to me. What's even more surprising and
disturbing is that we weren't given a copy of this. Before we.
walked in here. It's extremely difficult to follow these changes on the
board. Mrs. Herman went through this stuff in great detail and
worked laboriously to try and get something that avoids the problems that we had with the
laughter ordinance where some people felt disenfranchized by it.
I find it. It's disturbing to me not to be given a copy of this in advance
and for mrs. Herman now to have to respond to all of these by memory ithout even having a
copy of it up here. Um, I'm I'm. I'm so so all.
jim did was. Tell us what he liked and didn't like the the land
development code. No he didn't. Some of these changes may e
okay. Some of them may not be.
>> we don't. >> have a copy of them.
>> we're having to. Go from memory of what he showed up on the screen there.
w still don't have this I mean. Here.-
>> I understand. But it's a.
>> and it's a. Hearing we got.
>> into. This problem.
>> but there should have been. Maybe copies of it out there I mean it is.
pretty what jim. I do have I do have extra copies right here if they want.
there you go. Yeah I mean I know we just jumped into trees but we do
have more work to take a look at. Commissioner, this is.
>> the first hearing. A staff were. Asked to.
>> look at the document that came from ldc and provide your comments.
that those. >> came to us yesterday or
today. It's a.
>> lot. Nicer and they have. I'm sorry go ahead.
I should have interrupted no watch us. That's the direction that was
given to staff. Look at this document. Provide your comments and what
you. Suggest. And that happened in the last
couple days and this is the first hearing I.
>> mean. We received development agreements from you all the
time like. >> the day.
>> you're. You're right you're on. The dais.
you're right. But we did we went.
>> through this process to avoid a fight here. Um we went to great lengths to
try and do that. >> we knew that jim.
wasn't okay with some of these. Look, I respect him. He knows more.
>> about trees. >> than I ever will, but but
there's a process here and I appreciate it. Um, uh, mr. A's, um, that they
may not have gotten it until yesterday but there's no reason it could have been emailed to
us last night so we can at least look through it to see if we're okay with it.
uh, rather than have to argue about it. I think it puts mrs. German at
a disadvantage to have to go through this thing page.
>> by. Page and try and see what we have a problem.
I'm objecting to the process. I'm not objecting to his positions.
um, although I do think he's right on the may um uh but but in any event, um, I'll I'll let
mr. Smith speak. We have.
>> another public hearing. Yeah.
>> not we're not. We're not voting today. Okay.
>> I just. >> I was trying to avoid a big.
>> fight up here. And I think we're fighting. Well, uh.
good after. Almost afternoon. Good morning, mr. Chair.
I will say, um, when I had my one on one tracy was extremely complimentary of miss iseman.
oh, yes. And how much she did work with .
staff to. >> put what we.
>> had. Before us today together. So I thank you.
we do. Appreciate your work on it. Thank you.
you're welcome. Uh, this has not been an inexpensive endeavor.
this if you would call just jessica. Yes I.
dress oh I'm sorry, I'm. Sorry.
>> jessica seman. 401 east jackson street. U.
>> suite. 2100.
>> tampa, florida. Um, a you know, I'm here.
>> you know, I worked with a lot.
>> of individuals. >> in.
our. Development community and unfortunately due to the length
of the hearing, it was delayed. Um, some people had to leave. So you're just.
>> left with. The remainders. All right.
>> so to. >> give you just a recap to
how. >> we got.
here. >> his ordinance was brought.
before you and I came. And spoke and mentioned senate bill 180 as a ossibility.
you directed you sent the ordinance back to the rc and directed.
staff and the ldr. Specifically you know, mister tillman directed him.
okay, let's. Work together and see if we can come up with a.
solution to avoid a senate bill 180.
>> because. Staff put in so much work. To update and revise.
>> the landscaping the. Tree protection ordinances. So that's what we did.
we went. >> back to lrc and I presented
that numerous meetings before drc and got everyone's input, got staff's input to the extent
that they were willing to provide the input at that time. And we came.
>> up with a what I believe was a very. Well compromised solution.
we're not going we're not. Going back to.
>> what. The old code is where. You don't et any of the great
staff improvements that have been made to date. And we.
thought we came up with a very great ordinance and today my intent was to come up here and
say I have no comments. We we hope you. Adopt this.
ordinance now I. Need to go back and completely regroup.
>> with. All the the.
>> proposed edits and some. >> of which I heard.
are unacceptable. To the development community. So I will regroup.
>> and we will hopefully. >> work together.
between now and the second meeting and maybe we will come up with a compromise solution.
with with mr. Yard and your staff but maybe not. Thank you.
anyone else in the audience like to speak? For mr. Walker?
mhm mhm. Is there anybody else close it after you.
good morning. My name is joshua walker I live at 18820 shellfish very.
importantly ocala florida 32179 in district one now we talk about trees here.
my biggest problem is we have a developer coming in. He takes all the trees away and
then e developed part of the property and part of it doesn't you know hester.
well we got weeds growing. We don't want it to go up there and not maintain it.
so we had to they put the sidewalks in, we took over the sidewalks.
we got the fire hydrants in here. You can't even find them on a
tree. We got to stop signs that the weeds are now up there about
five feet tall and by the time they cut it into it mary combustible area they'll be
as high as the stop signs. Nothing's maintained. Why don't we have an ordinance
in here that says they have to maintain the property because they cut the weeds.
we are there. Trees are gone. So what's growing the weeds and
we don't maintain this weed bank. I don't know how many thousands
of dollars the county has spent over there with code enforcement, solid waste and
our utility company you know, fire department, you know, utilities that come in there
for maintaining the you know, the. Fire hydrants stuff in here and
if they come along and. >> just.
mow 5 or 6ft in on the property line and get bear on it and down in front of the stop sign
we won't have this problem but we don't. We only auburn addresses the
trees today here once the trees are gone we got to have something put in there.
why are we going through this every year and keep john was here we keep on.
but what's his problem? Why is this happening? Why can't we get this just
secured here? What you do when you take a tree out of here you
can maintain the property. At least keep them maintained. But we just up along the right
of ways but we're not doing that so I appreciate that you guys get together here and get
it taken care of. We've been on this over three years now.
on it. >> so thank you.
thank you mr. Walker. Mr. Chair can I ask mr. Minter a question?
yeah. Mr. Minter. Do we require the property
owner to keep their right away maintain can we legally because it.
well even on any property based on.
>> oh t's a private subdivision really the commercial property in there is
a private private property. Exactly.
>> now the roads are dedicated in some instances right mounir. So how I.
mean how does that work? Cmmissioner I think if I understand your question we do
not we don't have an ordinance in lace requiring how properties are being maintained
or should be maintained during the. The right of way.
even the right of way. We don't have an ordinance in place requiring how to
maintain. >> it.
if I want. >> to.
we have. >> a.
policy on public ight of way how to maintain it. That's policy.
but if it's. Not an.
>> ordinary roadway. And it is a county roadway in the county mows it every
quarter, I'm not. Required o mow my right away. Because it's county property.
>> that's correct. Thank you. You can't make me go mobile
right away. The right of way that. Belongs to the county.
well yeah. What about the. I think I think.
what mr. Walker is talking about that that right away doesn't that right away doesn't
belong to us in that particular instance.
>> but. In subdivision where it's private right of way it's
private. Thoughtful private subdivision or most.
>> basic. Private subdivision would be private right of way.
so we still. You can.
>> have a you'd have to have an ordinance. That but we don't.
>> don't have to have it right. You'd have to have an ordinance.
that said you have to maintain that private right away right. Yeah I mean there are standard
good housekeeping expectations but no there s no ordinance. And and.
probably what you should do is a developer's agreement when you approve those.
some level maybe that's what you should boland. Homeowners associations they.
your homeowners. Expect oh.
>> yeah the whole to be maintained. Right yeah this is a commercial
the. Particular project he's talking about is.
basically like is it a commercial subdivision. Basically I think the one he's
talking about is commercial subdivision. I took it very.
open broad. I didn't zero. In on a particular.
subdivision. >> the examples he keeps he was
you if I recall correctly I think it's a commercial subdivision and we do have a
mr. You that recently was established but it's not going to take effect till october.
then we can provide a little bit more better maintenance and routine maintenance that
doesn't exist today. Good question. And just to clarify mr. Walker
did. Reach out to us about. Issues around forest community
center sandhill park. >> and I've.
>> already asked my team to meet with him and take a look at property ownership and who
owns what to see what we an do to help and if we can we will. I not we'll we'll turn things
over to code. Enforcement thanks to you. You're welcome.
all right commissioners, any other questions or comments on this?
I think we can, uh we can get this back. I mean.
uh I mean look at it again. That's fine. Um, and then we'll bring it
back to the next hearing. Okay.
>> um, do you want to do you want to go too? Yeah, definitely.
yep. It's up.
>> on the screen already. Um there was there seems to be this missing sentence that
keeps falling off the definition of critical root zone.
we we found it and added it back in so it just ended after crc with a critical reason with
a comma. And the rest of the sentences is established by definition um
or based on an onsite. Review and assessment by either a certified arborist or
landscape architect uh prior to construction that. That language.
>> should have never been removed. And it just.
>> seemed. To drop off. It's not onerous.
it's it's in line with the code. And then the other one was the
tree regulated and this is where we changed from 2010. That aligns with the changes
that we just talked about. And uh division seven. That wraps up that.
section and you were good with the shade tree. Yes.
>> yep okay. >> those are all fine.
u they did they did uh, ask for the longleaf pine to go down to uh to line up with
20in uh, we're fine with that. It was 18 and that's fine with us.
any other comments on the definitions commissioners. Or questions for staff?
jim you changing the design? You're the only one I had signed up for that.
that's what they. >> did right?
>> yeah okay okay okay. Anyone else in the audience like to speak on the
definitions? All right seeing none we'll move on.
uh number six. Okay so number six is division uh eight landscaping.
I'm going to get right into it um, globally and the h proposed code the the word
fences was added in front of walls. Uh, so it implies it's that's
the priority or it could be the number one, you know, it could be considered the number one
option when it comes into the code. Uh, so all did on this
section were you see it was showing fences or walls I. Struck walls put it in front of
fences. So it s. Walls or fences.
um just. Just for context and clarity for staff.
um but it doesn't. >> change the meaning of of any
of the code and there's references. Okay.
>> um I got it. So the 683 line was. I see.
132 right 30 um so removal of eradication prohibited. We support all these changes on
this page. Okay, good. Uh the next section here the
top of um section 8.4 uh we support that change um and talks with uh, tracy about the
solid side slopes and the solid bottoms of drugs counting as landscape areas.
she did not support that. >> and so.
we were presenting that to you. Yeah.
>> so the landscape and or side of and we're striking sided back out right okay.
any roblem I mean. I don't know what the board wants to do staff is
recommending I don't know. >> I understand I'm.
asking you guys are okay with that I don't know how I got in there so.
all right. >> let's move on for now that.
uh we're all the way down the bottom of this page would be um these are about ffl florida
friendly landscaping and encouragement of use of that 20 lots or more in any development
we support these changes this roll this rolls over to the next page.
we support all of these uh strikethrough and additions. Um we get into buffers and this
is the uh pretty much the description of how buffers work.
so they did change trying to go to the amount of deciduous trees from 25% up.
to 50% within a buffer. We prefer to stick with the 25% as buffers are a screening
mechanism. Commissioners.
>> are you okay with that? You want to stick with the 25 or you want to go to 50 and
deciduous trees and buffers. Take deciduous trees in the subdivision are fine or do you
want them in I guess the question jim's asking is do you want deciduous trees in the
buffers more than 25%. So right. So I think.
it's a good. >> question is good.
>> but when they do. They're going to lose all their lives right.
>> nd that's just. Point half half of it. Would be.
less okay. >> and the buffer is something
that you actually want to try to keep somewhat opaque. In the spirit of buffers.
yes I don't know but it's a great conversation. So commissioners uh.
you want to stay at 25? Yeah.
>> everybody okay stay at home. All right. Um, see, uh, we're.
>> just now we're good. >> so that was just, uh.
we're just moving that. Yep. Okay.
>> then we're on page four. Uh, excuse me page five. Okay.
>> um line 14. Let me get that. Up on the screen.
so we did do some of the word swaps with walls and ences. Uh, the the group elder c
proposed to authorize drc uh to to approve the placement of required buffer and landscaping
yet that can be deemed uh something that we can review. This is for where we have the
areas where it's hard. To yeah I just want to go above that I saw the change from to
design professional design for oh my gosh yeah who is the design professional.
so we don't support striking that from registered landscape architect and that you know
that you would. >> hate that but I just want to
understand by definition what is the design. Use either a licensed uh
egineer or a certified landscape architect. Either or.
>> it could be more than that. Well it does. A design.
professional I yeah. >> is that a is that a
licensee? Yeah it could be a draft person.
uh it. >> licensee it doesn't say
licensed. So it could be. Tat's what I was concerned
about is it could be someone that's just a a draftee. It'd be it.
>> could be an engineer and there might not be as good at maybe.
or an intern. Or intern. I mean if you want to say
licensed design professional that probably would limit. Um somebody was a licensed.
if I may be. So I use the. Registered landscape architect.
they drew me up some plans it was going to cost me. Enough to build another home.
to design. The landscape in my house around.
my house? Yes ma'am. I went to.
a local. Um. ,plant place.
they designed me something great that I could afford. To do and.
I did it and I love it so I'm not I.
>> I prefer to stay with a. Design professional in this. And that will include that
experience. Those people will be able to do it.
yeah. >> so I am.
in your yard that's not a subdivision. Well I've seen the.
work that. This group is a very big. Group and.
>> yes sir it it's. >> I get.
>> it but that's if. We've got plants that says we already have.
a list you can use these number of trees and all. Why not.
and you go ahead. I've missioner so these plans are required to be.
signed and sealed. So the. Landscape designers that work
at those shops are not licensed to sign and. Seal drawings.
so um that's part of the. Submittal requirements earlier in the.
code just like a stormwater plan we can draw those but we hand them over to the ngineers
to make them permeable and everything else. Um, but landscape plans and
other plans are required to be signed and sealed. Well, they can take in maybe I
just on't. Understand the process.
>> they have to work directly under a licensed landscape architect for that.
>> to happen. I think that company has a la and they're doing that as part
of their their design build business that's appropriate. Um.
>> but just hiring a landscape designer out of the phone book to say design this and let me
get it signed and seal that's. That's against state law. I like that.
but if you want if if you're looking for a medium it could be the same reference that we
have in other sections of the code and that would be. The licensed design
professional. Uh phrase that you see. And that would mean.
somebody that does have that a license.
>> that they can see you. Comfortable with licensed design.
yes that'd be fine I think if as long as you had a license in there then it would comply
with. The rest of the.
>> code okay. All right now jump to the next section okay.
um the next section. Will uh that uh was the perin one here and the ldcs version
wanted to default to automatically to uh drc for these no man land buffers where
you have a development that has a wall with landscaping outside of the wall and then next to it
you would have had another similar development that had a wall with landscaping outside
of it. So you'd have two walls with an unacceptable landscape strip.
we'd like to be able to provide an administrative approval of working with the later
applicant of moving the landscaping on the inside or possibly doing away with it for
redundancy purposes. And if they don't like our decision of supporting that or
if they don't if we don't support it then they can appeal to drc and go through the
process. But spelling it out specifically in this section of
code of uh automatically jumping to uh drc is not necessary.
okay. >> so the.
>> change that we have there highlighted is what we're.
>> looking for. But I mean I want to process I want to make sure the process
is streamlined. If you want to go through drc to waive any of the codes, it's
going to be a waiver process in those situations when you are looking at improvement plans
for example the county engineer makes decision yeah the landscape architects make a
decision if the developer doesn't agree they do have a process they can go to drc was
a waiver request or they can escalate the issue up to assistant county administrator
or county administrator or it can come to the board if they want to at the end of the.
day okay. So that problem we have.
>> so we have so much flexibility how we can get a plans through the final.
approval commission. The best place is to. Work at it that's going to and
then if you have a problem with the. Staff level.
go to drc. But the review team. Aren't we do that a lot already
and. It's not.
>> I'm sure. Um the uh the rest of this is just changing walls and fences
around on uh line 30. They've changed the type c buffer for this is the um,
equestrian or agricultural themed rail fence buffers uh, from 25 to 15 foot wide.
that's consistent with the buffer tables. And the.
>> changes that they've made. There to. That's for the buffer buffers
adjacent to the following roadways. Yes, sir.
um the next section is on page six under uh buffer walls fences and berms.
so the proposed language notwithstanding any reference in section 6.8.6 to buffer
fences. Buffer fences may be used as a substitute for buffer walls
only if approved by the drc through the waiver process. This is something that we do
not support and that if they want to get a waiver to go from a wall to a buffer.
>> that should be just through the.
>> normal waiver process and. >> commission.
what we. Talked about.
>> the. Nonsupport here. Is is thematic.
we don't we don't feel that statements need to be added right.
there is a process any time you want to waive any technical issue in the code there's a
process to do it through drc. Okay adding calling out specifically that item with the
waiver process I don't know what it does to any other requirements in the code that
also are available. We already have this process in place.
the process. Is um your from your perspective okay.
and I think there has been discussion between tracy and jimmy specifically related to
that. Section to that item.
>> no no okay to. Leave for doctor's. Appointments I'm going to.
day and I'm seeking okay. Excellent thank you guy thank you.
okay but just just so we're clear ammonia you believe that this sentence we already have
this process. We already have the process.
>> we already have the process. I mean if. They are adamant it needs to be
here I don't know that it will hurt anything but cause a little confusion.
yeah. >> it's just redundant.
all right. >> jim.
um, line 15. Uh.
>> line all. That's the typical. Swapping words around for walls
and fences. We jump down the line 18 uh and 19 uh, ldcs proposing to bring
the buffer wall height back down to six feet. Okay.
>> um, and then we get down to uh, this this addition here about buffer walls and
maintenance and this is something that I wanted to make sure that we were clarifying
and. Um.
>> this is a staff edition. And I would like to propose this language.
>> where a. Buffer wall or fence s required and in public view the
property owner must maintain it in good repair and parents in perpetuity any buffer walls or
fences that are damaged, deteriorating or removed without authorization.
must be fully repaired and replaced within.
>> 30 days of receiving notice from the marion not marino um county.
uh if you could type that for me. Um code enforcement so this is
in line with your buffer requirements where you do have a buffer maintained in
perpetuity clause. That was added back in 2013. Um, but what we're seeing is
the conditions of if you're using excess walls are going to be fine.
they're going to be a lot easier to maintain. But in high wind tornadic
activity hurricanes we're going to have to work with vinyl fences.
when you have just. Hundreds of feet of it they will pitch and they will all
down like dominoes. We've seen it happen in the villages.
we've seen it happen on three and one down in hat area. Any type of heavy wind those
things aren't when rated. Other other structural walls would be fine but with vinyl
fences and we didn't want to just isolate vinyl fences in this this particular comment
just maintain them especially in public view so they're not you know, broken and stay that
way for months and months. That's not how we want your community.
>> do we have them on 60th uh today or in disrepair? Yep.
>> leaning over so. Commissioners any comments on that language?
are you okay with it? Uh next up is the land use categories for buffers.
uh, you can see the changes that ldc proposed. The first one is in single
family residential against uh they've recommended going from a type d which is narrow with a
wall back to a type e. Which is ten feet wide, double staggered road hedges and
trees. Every 20ft 25ft. This is your old.
type e buffer. Uh multifamily against ag there's a or b um just.
>> a little. Clarification on that. Those are tied to optional
buffers keeping in the table and it actually gives you options.
to decide. Whether you want one with a wide landscape buffer.
uh. >> or one with a slightly
narrow buffer with a wall depending on the site design that you're reviewing, distance
can be a better buffer, but there may be concerned with. Constituents about.
building next to other areas. >> where they do want to have
security. Away from these sorts of things that a wall may be more
appropriate. So we just. Lft that flexible thing with
public against ag both of those a or b. Commercial against single
family a six foot opaque fence may be used in lieu of the vegetative.
>> buffer that was recently um . A.
or is. >> that that?
yes sir. That's single family again single.
family that single family yes but what about. Commercial against it.
that stays as a b with a wall. With a wall okay. Ad then.
and then. Line two there the. The whole thing we were talking
about previously with a residential against the right away that's going to have.
uh a four lane right d4. He's talking about footnote two.
right right. Um are you talking about against.
yeah ken's. Confusing me.
>> got me a little. Messed up here. So, uh, the.
are you talking about sub note two? Yes.
>> so a type. A a type buffer d buffer is required where residential is.
adjacent to opposite right. Away in a road less than four lanes.
so yeah ou're. >> up here single family
against right of way. Um is actually. Number four down at the bottom
with a. Six foot wall and this. Um this ice from it actually
provided. You with additional. Language on that that you.
have uh in the packet. At the.
>> very top of it it's just the a copy of the email that she she sent in to administration
in the rest of the review team. Jim.
>> before you get. To that.
>> yeah. >> commissioner note number two
applies industrial against right of way if across from the right of way there is a
residential subdivision and that applies only between industrial and right of way in
that condition that's where you see the do the d with a uh footnote to um.
so how would that work? It works if you have an industrial development
happening here. There's that road adjacent to it across from that road there
is a subdivision d two will apply right. Here okay.
and d2 is going down from a 25 foot buffer to a 15 foot buffer or d in general it's.
>> not right. All of these got smaller right ?
the flexibility if you flip over to the next page. Um they went back to the old
yeah. So they basically. Removed the.
options of going from. Y smaller to wider or wider to narrower.
how much time did we pend. >> on this?
I prefer not to. Think about we uh. And now it's coming back.
>> to us and going back. >> to what we had originally.
oh, you mean. The whole.
>> process that so buffer buffer workshop stopped. Started back in april of 2024.
okay anything we need to change on this? Uh, actually only.
>> footnote yeah. Do I need to address that?
I believe the biggest concern, commissioner, is the requirement of wall adjacent to
highways. Right.
>> and I think it was not discussed during drc and then mrs. Isom and send us this note
I mean that's what her client has been. Talking about.
and they she sent us this recommendation. That was handed out to you
today. Yeah it's a and.
>> we. Hve told you about it before. All ight.
so how will that apply. It ill apply you can use a fence instead of a wall without
any waiver or any uh. ,other approval. Now if you put a wall there is
an incentive to reduce the width of your, uh. Buffer buffer.
yeah. And that that incentive says. Um, is.
provided in lieu of a fence. The required buffer shall be.
>> reduced and. That was one.
>> I wanted to change to may. Oh okay. Yeah.
>> because you may have a developer who doesn't want to. Reduce and.
>> it might be fine with it. >> don't make it show.
me I mean. That's good but. Um and that.
that basically goes ack to our code previously then right where you could put a fence or
a wall. Is that correct? Even sure we had a fence.
I don't know that. >> we I don't know.
we yeah. Even have a fence it's clear.
>> well there. Was still a buffer requirement of some sort.
yeah doesn't have to be a fence could have been a vegetated buffer.
s it says without. A drc waiver um. I don't know.
I don't think in the past we even required a. Fence right, ight.
so at the end of the day at least there would be a fence vegetative buffer and a wall or
a wall and that was the compromise we talked about or at least they're proposing.
is that correct jessica okay. Yeah it went from um okay. Anything else on this
no I think that that one here I want to make sure we're okay with this as long as we change
that uh, from a may o. A, uh, shout out to a may as far.
>> as the. Buffer size reduction.
>> I. Don't think that really necessarily matters.
okay, ask if it matters. I actually ave a 12:00 doctor's appointment.
thank you. So I. Appreciate your time for me.
thank you. >> sorry.
I thought we were. Scheduled until 11. Uh, um.
>> yes. >> I am right, I am down.
where are we. >> at now?
>> yeah I'm getting on the right document. You are on parking lot areas.
these changes are all uh, fine. These are just expansions of.
>> all of the ther, uh, parking lot islands, which is fine.
mhm. Um, to accommodate root growth ,um, landscape building
landscape. Public side view sides proposed structure that's clarification
that we support. Um then I'm on page ten uh item c which is line item 25.
we support these changes as well as far as biodiversity goes these are good changes.
uh excuse me commissioners at the top you see line item five where they added the word large
in front of shade tree. So large shade rees not. Shall not be located within
20ft of a building with good, uh, lines good with their table uh, of trees.
mhm. >> um and then you I'm.
>> glad you were able to put the first thing in here. Yeah looks that looks good.
you got. >> that and.
>> it's retty. Clear now. Yes sir.
and then on page uh page 12 lines even underneath the table changing palm trees um
back to. Shall not be substituted for uh shade trees.
oh yeah okay. >> all right.
and then this last page is the last page of adjustments. Um and we support all of these
as far as uh the after the first 24 months of the maintenance period that's the
initial buffer inspection. Um, and down at the bottom you hear you talk.
about. >> uh, tree trimming approved
by a certified arborist or survival. And that wraps up all the
proposed changes back from ldc . And staff edits.
uh, for this section of. Them on page commissioner, if you don't if you would allow.
yes, sir. On page. On page eight.
yes, sir. Uh, buffer. Description um.
and buffer type e. Um we went back to five. I think the elder c is
recommending going back to the five feet wide uffer, but then they added double row of
continuous shrub. Um I mean is that practical? It's going to be tight because
I know the type of plants are going to be specifying to meet. That growth height or.
in e what did we have I mean what was in the 13 code. Kept that.
>> section uh with me um. The duncan's going to. Bring that up because.
>> I'm not really sure we should have any buffer that's less than like ten.
>> foot. No, 13. No, we had mean.
five foot stuff. Yeah.
>> I don't know what the plan thing was. Ssan's telling me that this
is. >> the 13 code.
okay? >> this is the 13 code.
um. >> do you think it's wise to
keep double? Um.
>> it does. Provide a solid screen, but you're going to end up seeing
what you had. Before, which is oak. Trees or magnolias every.
2ft and in. >> double row.
>> of sweet by verse um um. >> and that can get very
crowded. >> in a five.
>> foot. Strip it would be best to. Go to ten uh to give room.
>> room for growth. It may be an idea you we discuss with.
yeah okay. It really would be I mean you're going from 15 to 5 if if
we could meet in the middle there with ten foot. For that type of double.
row that would. >> give.
it room. >> to growth and you wouldn't
be forced to put the trees in the hedge. That's what you've seen before
. And then they start limit up the tree to accommodate the
hedge to grow up. Uh the john deere up on 44 to 41 just ripped out all their
sweet viburnum. So you have clear. Story magnolias that are.
six feet tall which shouldn't be they shouldn't be allowed to be pruned like that.
um I think robin's working on. >> that one okay.
>> and that type buffer is only between residential and residential.
yeah or residential and. Eg um. Before 2013 that.
>> was your right of way buffer. All right.
that's the. Way he saw a lot. Of very thin okay pleasure
pleasure me oh mr. Gooding I guess. Southeast 6th avenue.
could we show up the page again. Which is the language.
>> that staff now wants to, uh ,do away with which one? Jim?
um, it was the one, uh, line six on page six out of 17. Let me explain.
this is my language and why I put it in here. I put it in the county under
the under the code that existed before y'all did what you did several months ago.
fences were only allowed if permitted by drc. The language was in there.
one of the changes that was made in this ldc revision is they added fence before wall.
I wanted to make sure. That fences were only permitted if drc approved them like was
the case in the old code. Thus I suggested this language notwithstanding any reference
in this to fit buffer fences may be used only as a substitute for buffer walls
only if approved by drc. That was my language at the drc meeting they said they wanted
it done through the waiver process and I don't know if any engineers are still here but it
was the engineers that wanted it done that way. This language other than the
waiver process was put in to protect the county. Um.
>> I think dana was there and remembers that this wasn't this isn't an effort to do anything
that's not already required under the old code. Drc has to approve fences and
that's why that language is in there. Now we can talk about the
waiver process. Maybe jim remembers it better than I do or tracy may
remember. It in jimmy. I believe even in the past when
we did that through drc, I believe it came through a waiver process but I could e
mistaken. Yeah that's something we need but.
there's and there's some confusion on that I, I wasn't I didn't advocate the waiver
thing I can't vote in any way but I'm an alternate but but I. Don't the waiver process to me
is the only thing that should be just the subject of debate. I think the sentences needed
and I think if dana's given enough time to look at it she'll agree.
but but in any event I put that in there now the only exception is the new footnote that
they're. Uh adding I think in. For um uh.
that allows fences without a. Drc waiver. But I.
>> just I just wanted to point out that language is the same as the old code in that you
can't put a fence up unless drc is okay with it. I don't care if it's a waiver
process r not but but that language needs to stay in there.
that's that's. My only point.
>> you're still talking about the same paragraph. Yeah but.
if we talk about the waiver process. Yeah.
>> jeremy before you sit down, uh. On six egarding the berms.
um uh. And you go through the. Explanation of the use of the
berms because I remember. When we went to an eight foot wall the berms kind of made
sense if you're going to put a to foot berm and six foot wall to get eight feet, but now
we're coming down to a six foot wall. Uh, how are the berms?
figured. Um, tell us. The commissioner.
>> can you use berm? Thank you.
>> totally. Yes.
>> yeah. >> okay.
>> yeah. >> if you have the space and
the resources. Yes. Bill largo did that years ago
out on state road 200. That's a lot bigger than six.
>> feet but. It works. Um, but it does.
>> it takes. Space and that and that's valuable land.
uh, o using a combination either a fence, a wall, a berm or any they're n uh,
combination. Is suitable for a. Farm and a two foot wall.
you can. Accomplish the opacity with a berm at six feet and
landscaping on it. You're good. And that's always been
permitted. It always has. That's always been permitted in
the case that's. >> not.
no yeah. And honestly commissioner it's a very good combination.
it gives you a different character to the perimeter. I'm not opposed to it I just.
but I like jim's example. Bell largo that's ne of my clients and that is the most
extraordinary berm I've. Ever seen. Uh, yeah.
that was designed by the same client that tried to sell you a new house with their.
landscape package. Jim.
>> jimmy, you haven't seen. You haven't. Seen summer glen.
I haven't seen summer glen. I must not have. Because if.
>> their buffer is better than that, then I haven't. Seen, uh, anyone else.
um. It almost. Afternoon jessica isom 401 east
jackson street, suite 2100, tampa, florida. Um, you do have a handout.
>> that was provided to you. In mr. Cool yard's packet? Um, it does say.
>> at. The. Top provided by.
jessica iseman august 19th the track. Changes are.
changes from what the. Drc approved. At their or recommended for
approval at their public hearing. So this is not the existing
code. This is. Changes to the what is.
>> being proposed. So because. Jimmy alluded.
to it just now initially when this was ordinance was drafted. It was.
>> that fences were allowed basically by right. With approval.
>> of drc. That changed during one of the ldr sees that last ldr see
public hearing it changed from abuy right to a. Waiver which.
>> is why jimmy is talking about that language. Well in that shift we idn't
catch this change because. With the.
>> right away so what we're really talking about with. That said.
that footnote. Four we're only. Talking about single family and
multifamily next to right away. That's the only time this footnote applies.
so with single family and multifamily next to right away that.
>> used. To be a type c buffer in the old.
code that does not require a. Wall or a fence. So as a compromise what we are
proposing is requiring a ence in that condition instead of nothing.
provide a fence. And if a wall is provided. Have an incentive.
to provide the wall by reducing. The buffer to ten feet.
so that's what's proposed. >> with this um language change
and doing that shift from a fence by right to by waiver we had to make this language
change to make it clear. That you do get in the instance of single family and
multifamily next to right way. You do get a fence by right. You don't have.
>> to go. Through the drc waiver process. But it.
is required. >> a ences required and if a
wall is provided then you get. A reduced buffer. That's hat.
>> we're proposing. Again with the additional language changes I'll have to
go back. These are not I believe a lot of these.
are are usable. Um so I would I am hoping just so we're all on the same page
is when we come back to the next public hearing staff and the development community may
have different ordinances proposed if we cannot come to an agreement hopefully we.
do but if we don't. I will give. You an ordinance that's being
proposed by the development community and so that you can make a decision basically
and decide make no changes, staff changes or changes. Or potentially revert back to
the old. Code if you have to.
>> do. A reversion under a senate bill.
180 right. Thank you. One question essica, before.
>> you leave. That same footnote, uh, we.
>> are. Suggesting we change shell to may.
I if you. Guys would onsider that because if you have a developer
that does not want to reduce the buffer I think may will give us that flexibility.
yeah. >> my thought was.
the the shall meaning the required. Buffer shall be reduced.
but of course an applicant can always go more than what code is required.
and what I did and what I'm concerned about with may instead of shell is that staff
could say o even though you're putting in a wall I'm going to say no even though you've
designed a wall and put it on your plans and designed your community with a ten foot.
buffer. >> we're saying no because you
want even bigger. And so. This that's why we said may
reduce the required buffer. With yeah because if it says there if it says the
requirement may the only one who can waive the requirement is the county.
so the requirements on us not on them. So that's.
>> the part. >> so we.
need to figure out a way how to clarify that. Right and I will.
but can't can't any it can't any applicant go above and beyond the code.
so a wall is more intensive is a more intense buffer than a fence.
we would allow that anyway right. And it's saying if if.
>> a wall is. Provided in those situations and in only those situations
the buffer width could. >> be.
reduced to ten at the option of that I.
>> think it's fine. Yeah to. Keep it well.
I mean I think it's. >> good but I to your point.
I think. Shall require the I mean what she's saying is.
that your requirement shall change. Correct your discretion doesn't
change. Maybe we just need to tweak it so that.
we can see those. That hey I still have the discretion to leave it.
I can see a situation when a reviewer see that it's still. 15 foot.
>> why did they say. You need to get a waiver to change to keep it the way it.
>> is right? Even to go bigger? A waiver to have a bigger
buffer. Than what's.
>> required I can. See because of the shell then that you were saying well just
oh it's not. What work.
>> on it. >> but well.
>> I'm not I don't know. What you want. It makes a lot of sense so I
think that's good right. >> and if.
you'd like when we come back for a second public hearing I'd be happy to do a larger
presentation or more than two minutes. Um, to explain some of our
decision points. Absolutely.
>> if you're to clarify jessica and she. Said jessica if you if you'll
um. Just send me a note o. Jen how much time you want and
set it up and then if you can get the presentation to. Us.
>> okay. Um. We'll give you the
time necessary to go through. The work that you did. Okay.
>> sounds good. >> thank you.
could you step here? I know I'm not supposed to speak again, but I'd.
like appreciate. >> to.
clarify something she said the development community this is ldcs product.
it's not just miss isom and some other client. She brought some changes.
ldc accepted some of them and not others. So this this is an ldr rc
proposal. Some of us who represent developers are sitting up here
making changes that we thought protected the county um and may our clients.ily be the best for-
so so this is an ldr she's representing developers. I just want to let y'all know
that this product. Was the. Drc okay thank you.
so what ordinance would you be bringing in on behalf of the developers.
so well yeah she was working for the developers. I'm working right with the
development community and what I what the. Drc approved.
at their. Public hearing is completely acceptable.
so if you accepted. These ordinances with only this one edit change on the footnote
four. >> we.
would have absolutely no objections without mr. Cooley or to added changes that were
presented today. Now it's on us. We need to go back and speak
with mr. Cooley, art and his staff and determine is there some meeting of the minds
there? If there is. We're not going to say no but.
there could be some conflict and so that's why.
>> so if there's conflict you'll bring back your proposal.
right? Tim and our eam will bring back their proposal and the
commission will decide. Yeah, exactly.
>> I want you to be very clear. With what.
>> your options. Are and what the consequences are.
>> and that'll be a little actually that'll be a little bit clearer han today's.
yes mixed ordinance. Yes we appreciate that I appreciate that.
so are we going to end up getting okay. So are we going to end up
getting an ordinance from yep jim and staff one from drc and then one from.
her no no no. But we won't get another one from el drc.
we will get. The proposals changed that jim had today.
this is not going back to el paso is going to be this and. You're going.
>> to get staff. Version that we might like just one that I agree on.
that I. Appreciate you saying that or. We might get to.
and and if there are any differences why don't we prepare a single document with
just he differences? Yes that's what my intent is is to highlight where.
our differences are. And just focus on those issues .
and to show you. Both options correct.
>> we appreciate that very much. Because we appreciate all your
percent aligned right. We are we're.
>> getting we're close we're getting we're getting real close.
and I'm. >> glad that we've taken the
time. To go. Back and forth and have all
these debates. And in your time with ld, rc and in the time of the land
development code committee they they've done some really good work.
they help us get to a good spot you know.
>> because. At the end of the day everybody does care about the community
and wants to be exactly and so I ppreciate your time as well thank you or anything else.
we don't need to go back to elder c right now we can meet with.
we can just meet we'll set. >> that up right away.
hopefully we. Could just meet meeting come up with the right compromises and
tweaks that we can both all live with it.
>> we'll set that up right. >> away okay.
>> and so that one will come back to us september.
>> 14th and that everything will come back to us on the 14th.
the only thing that comes back to us on the 14th. Is unless we have some magic
happen with vendors but otherwise the food trucks will come back at a different date
maybe in october. >> the food.
truck ordinance it's very complicated commissioner you're talking about I mean some very
good public comments you've been talking about different. Lots of.
>> different issues. >> we are combining everything
in one short ordinance to help .
>> us help. Us with that one. Jessica.
yeah? >> do you.
>> have. Any food truck? Hi, jessica.
all right, all right. Anything else y'all? If not, we'll e adjourned.
thanks, guys. Appreciate the work. Let's go.