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statement which is the township will
maintain its rural character for years

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to come while managing the pace of
growth, ensuring the preservation of

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existing neighborhoods and the natural
environment and promoting development in

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agreed upon target areas that will be
served by public infrastructure and

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utilities. Again, I'm going to go ahead
and call the meeting to order. Before

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our secretary uh begins roll call, just
a a reminder, we do ask that you please

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come to the podium and use the
microphone um so that we can capture the

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audio for recording and that everyone
here can hear what is being said. Um so

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just ask that you don't speak from the
seat. Again, everybody will have that

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opportunity but to please come to the
podium. So with that, roll call.

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Secretary Woods.
>> Chair Johnson

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» present.
>> Vice Chair Sly

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» here. Commissioner Buller
>> here.

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» Secretary Woods is here. Commissioner
Riggs

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» here.
>> Commissioner Summers

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» here.
>> Commissioner Redmond

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» here.
>> You have a quorum.

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» Thank you very much. If we can stand for
the pledge of allegiance, please.

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» I aliance to the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic

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for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.
[cough]

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» Moving on to item D on the agenda is the
approval of the agenda. Is there a

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motion to approve the agenda?
>> Move to approve.

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» Support.

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We have a motion by Commissioner Buller,
seconded by Commissioner Sly. Any

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discussion?

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Hearing and seeing none. All those in
favor signify by saying I.

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» I. [snorts]
>> All those opposed, same sign. Motion

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carries. We have an agenda. Uh the first
item on our agenda tonight um and I'm so

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happy to welcome Representative Steve
Cara who represents um the Three Rivers

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area and uh he also chairs the House
Oversight Committee on Corporate

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Subsidies and State Investments in the
Michigan House of Representatives. Um

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this commiti subcommittee has held
multiple hearings in I think 25 and 26

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maybe 26
um examining the economic environmental

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and policy impacts of data center
development in Michigan and

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representative Cara thank you so much
for being here um we don't have or have

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been unable to get our local
representatives here so thank you for

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for coming this evening and I ask if you
can go to the podium kind of give us an

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update of what's happening at the state

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Well, thank you, Chair Johnson, and
hello to the to the board here. I'm

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Steve Cara, state representative, like
like you said, District 36. That's all

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of St. Joseph County and most of Cass
County to the southwest of here. And I

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chair the subcommittee on oversight, uh,
corporate subsidies and state

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investments.
And yeah, we've had several hearings

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from the environmental concerns of of
data centers to the amount of power

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consumption that they use. That's one
that got me in trouble with consumers

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energy. Although I only talked about the
amount of power they use, like saying

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that the Stargate data center uses 1.4
gawatt, which is as much as 1.17 million

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houses combined. And that's all I kept
it to was the amount of power that it

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uses. And
they made it personal. They came after

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me. Uh, actually, it's the most money
that's ever been spent against a an

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incumbent running for reelection in a
primary in the state of Michigan. They

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spent over half a million dollars to try
to beat me. Uh, I don't know why they

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would do that and lose, but that was
their prerogative. So, uh, so yeah, I

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think that just empowers me to come back
and uh go after them a little bit, you

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know, because I didn't make it personal.
I talked about the reality of the power

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it used. Well, now we get to talk about
consumers energy directly and DTE

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directly and I feel like they gave me a
free ticket to do it. So, it's going to

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be fun for these last few months uh this
term uh taking it back to them and

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having more serious conversations about
the corruption of the status quo that

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they want. Uh my biggest concern when it
comes to data centers is I know a lot of

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people are concerned about the
environmental impact and the amount of

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power that they use. Those are not my
top issue. My top issue is the fact that

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I believe that hypers scale data centers
and the potential of artificial

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intelligence becoming artificial super
intelligence is an existential threat.

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Literally could wipe out humanity.
I've had experts testify in committee

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about this. I've listened to
unfortunately I tried to get Tristan

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Harris to testify but he didn't get back
to us. But Tristan Harris and Jeffrey

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Hinton are two people who I highly
recommend. uh listening to and

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it's
it's it's alarming. It's alarming. Yes,

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there are concerns to our local
community, but that's nothing compared

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to the fact that it might wipe out
humanity. And we have four options. We

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can be apathetic, misinformed,
complicit, or we can challenge the

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status quo. The status quo politics,
whether it's data centers or other

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things, they love apathy. They love when
people just stay home, watch football.

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I'm looking forward to the football
season, by the way. But that's what they

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want us to do. Not paying attention to
what they're doing. If we are paying

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attention, they want us to be
misinformed. Uh none of us have all the

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answers, but they want us to be
misinformed. And if we are not apathetic

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or misinformed, they want us to be
complicit. What peanuts can I get for

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conforming to the status quo? That's
what they want us to say. Those are our

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three options that work for the
corruption of the globalist agenda. The

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one that doesn't work for them is for us
to resist, to challenge the status quo,

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to uh be agents for change, for free
markets and equal opportunity and

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protecting people's god-given rights.
That's what they don't want from us. And

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I think it is incumbent upon all of us,
whether we're elected officials, uh

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leaders in our community, activists,
people who just want what's best for

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fellow man to uh to rise and to
challenge the system because the very

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existence of mankind is at hand here. So
that's my two cents. I don't know if you

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have any questions for me, how long you
want me to speak tonight. I plan to stay

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for a while.
>> Okay. Um well, I do have a couple

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questions and then I'll open it up to
the commissioners. And I know we had

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this early on the agenda, so maybe we
can take a couple questions from the

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public as well. I you're before public
comment, but um just to give everybody

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an opportunity. Um our my question, I
guess, is we've been trying to go

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through a lot of training. Rob Thaw, our
attorney, is here as well, and we have

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the topic of data centers as well as
battery storage. I mean, obviously

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that's a lot in the headlines across the
state, right? And I know you've had

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committee hearings. Who's in favor?
Right. Who's in favor of let's just

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stick to data centers, right? Who's, you
know, because there's a lot of

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negativity and I think the Meno Center
just came out with something that said,

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"Oh, that's just a bunch of, you know, I
don't I think it was the Meno Center,

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but basically that it's more, you know,
it's not really as bad as it sounds,

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right?" Um, who's in favor of data
centers?

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» Sure.
>> I I would say that there are very

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wealthy people on both sides of the
aisle, big donors. uh you have the just

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the race to see who can achieve
artificial super intelligence. There's a

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lot of investors who are putting money
into whether they want it to be

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anthropic or open AI or or what company
they want uh to get across the finish

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line to be the one to achieve that super
intelligence and then they rule the

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world is their theory. And if does come
with that risk of destroying humanity,

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they'd rather it be them who
accomplished and eventually lost control

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to artificial super intelligence than
somebody else they're competing against.

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So it's just kind of that dog eat dog
system where they're like, "Well,

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somebody else is going to do it, so we
might as well do it as well." Uh we're

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also investing in old technology with
this because the graphic processing

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units, the GPUs that are made by Nvidia,
they're a few years old technology. And

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if you think about that 1.4 gawwatts to
have not even artificial general

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intelligence, so it's not even as
intelligent as all of humans combined

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right now taking 1.4 gawatt. Well, our
brains use 20 watts. So way more power.

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Well, what happens when technology
becomes more efficient and they only

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need 100 times as much power as our
brain to do higher computations than our

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brains are capable of doing? So this
technology that they keep investing in

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with these old Nvidia chips are becoming
outdated uh quickly and much more

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efficient stuff is on the horizon. But
that's scary because more efficient

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towards bringing us to artificial super
intelligence. That's the best argument

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people make is that we have to beat
China in the race war. You know that

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they're going to develop uh some uh
super intelligence and then they'll beat

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us militaristically or economically and
so we have to beat them. I think we need

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to have a diplomatic approach to it uh
as the United States and look at well

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how can we have serious conversations
with them like with nuclear

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proliferation make sure that we don't
wipe one another out. Uh so what was

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your question again?
>> Well just asking like within within the

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hearings you know if there was
[clears throat] anybody that was very

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supportive of the data centers and who's
that coming from?

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» As you saw I'm sure many of you
President Trump put out a tweet that was

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uh very to the point yesterday. Uh
Gretchen Whitmer also is supportive.

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Josyn [clears throat] Benson I would
imagine is her husband Ryan is one of

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the lead data center developers in in
the state with his being vice president

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of related companies because related
digital which is their sub company

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worked with open AI and Oracle to bring
us Stargate and Seline and so he was one

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of the key developers there. So yeah,
Benson, Whitmer, Trump, both sides of

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the aisle, big investors, people who
want to be part of that movement to rule

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the world.
>> So bringing it my last question. Um, so

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bringing it back home, right? We're a
small township and, you know, we're

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trying to do our due diligence. We've
got issues. I know we're going to talk

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solar tonight, too. We got a couple
items on the agenda. You know, we have

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been eroding local control, right? and
uh within the state legislature and and

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laws that have been passed um and you
know the concern at least that I have is

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in data centers next right um is that
going to be potentially another realm um

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that gets taken out of local control
what would be your advice you mentioned

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resistance but you know we're limited to
what the law states what what are what

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can we do as a township whether we're
for it or against it not suggesting one

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way or another but what what is your
advice to a local township

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» on bus facilities first you know that is
difficult there's a lot of communities

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because the MPSC, as you know, has the
final say. Basically, the local

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community can make the decision they
want to make, but if it's not what the

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MPC MPSC wants, they can overrule it.
So, you really don't have the final say.

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» Well, the same thing with electricity
costs, right? That will go to the

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Michigan Public Service Commission as
well, right?

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» Yes, they go and they have rates
increase on rate payers. Yes. Annually.

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And they went up much faster than the
rate of inflation this last year. And I

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believe part of it, even they don't say
it's because of it, is because they see

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all how much power the data centers use.
And they want it to pass the cost over

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to the rateayers with your utility bills
to help to subsidize the onset of the

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data center movement. And you know, they
want all of the above energy, whether

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it's, you know, already existing like
nuclear type of uh power plants, but

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they also want wind and solar. They want
all the they want to hypercharge our

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grid. So, taking our beautiful farmland
and transitioning it over to solar

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panels. Once you go to solar panels,
that you know creates problems with the

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with the soil. You can't go back to
farming after having the the solar

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panels there from the the leeching from
the chemicals and the metals in there.

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And uh the battery energy storage
systems are best facilities. Uh the

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reason why they have those with the
solar panels is because solar panels

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deplete the energy quickly. So if you
don't use the energy from solar panels

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right away, if you store it in the
batteries, then the batteries can hold

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it and and it doesn't deplete as
quickly. So yeah, solar is one of the

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worst energy sources in terms of
maintaining the energy if you don't use

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it right away. That's why they have the
best facilities going with them and like

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you said, usurping local control. that
the MPSC just heard a couple days ago

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their first uh decision on
and I can't remember what they decided a

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couple days ago. I I saw they were going
to meet and I didn't see what they ended

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up
>> Do you mean with with a um a data center

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or I mean sorry with a with the uh best
or

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» I think it was a best facility andor
solar panel as well. One of those

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renewable energ one of the ones that
falls under PA 233. Yeah. So yeah the

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first case went before them
>> and I don't know what their their

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decision was. I think they approved I
think it was Ingam County.

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00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:20,320
» Yeah, that was a settlement actually.
Okay. Uh Viv Township and some others in

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Ingam County and they actually reached a
settlement

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00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:27,360
» and that was the first one. So how many
communities who've just outright

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rejected and had plans to not do it and
just left it to the risk of the NPSC.

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Well, finally one time the MPSC has
acted in one circumstance. Does that set

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precedent to where it's going to be
happening all over the state or is it

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going to be rare?
A lot of the people in my community have

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been of the mindset like just don't give
an endorsement a tacid endorsement of it

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whatsoever and just leave it to the risk
of what the MPSC says. That's been the

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mindset of the locals from my community.
Okay.

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» Commissioners, questions for
Representative Car.

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» Is there any legislative act in one way
or the other on any of the data centers?

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» It's pretty quiet.
>> It's pretty quiet. Uh yeah, I'd say

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leadership on both sides of the aisle
seem to just want to ignore it and just

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let things happen. it it has the local
control dynamics right now for the data

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centers and but I think one of the
things with the data centers that I've

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00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:34,240
heard that are is worth noting of course
I can't give any legal advice as a

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legislator but there's the route of it's
called sue and settle so there are some

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00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:44,000
routes where some communities have gone
including Seline Township with Stargate

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00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:49,440
where they sued and settled was the
result and So

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I would I don't want to see peanuts
given to the local community in return

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00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:58,480
for ending up bringing a data center and
doing it quote the right way. I would

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rather not set that foundation. But you
can't discriminate is the thing. So any

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00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:07,519
type of thing that the local community
does to try to stop a data center from

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00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:12,959
coming locally. You can't pick on a
certain industry or else you know you'll

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00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:18,959
get beat through the courts is what I
hear. Um, so keeping that in mind as you

215
00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:22,880
make your considerations I think is
important not to discriminate against

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00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:27,839
data centers but set the foundation to
where businesses can't do XYZ which

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00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:32,800
would cause a problem for data centers
as well as other things that would be

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00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:38,079
okay to cause a problem for that way
it's not discriminating but yeah I I

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00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:42,000
don't like to sue in a subtle route.
Okay,

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00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:48,240
» I I have a couple. Um, why do they seem
to be insistent on on using prime

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residential land being right up next to
a neighborhood? Why aren't they trying

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to be more um um you know, friendly
neighbors or you know, being way out of

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town? People drive 15, 20, 30 minutes,
an hour to work. They don't need to be

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right in a neighborhood.
That seems to be one of the biggest

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00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:12,880
things that, you know, gets people
screaming is, you know, they're right

226
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:17,360
next door. Their houses are vibrating
and have me live into the basement

227
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because it's too noisy upstairs now.
>> Right. In in most circumstances, they do

228
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try to go in more rural areas is what
they try to do. But there still could be

229
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:31,199
neighboring, you know, communities there
nonetheless. They want water. They want

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cooler areas. Um, those are a couple of
things they're looking at. They like

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00:16:32,079 --> 00:16:40,560
flat land. Um those are some of the
things that draw data centers to certain

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areas. And yes, there might be
neighborhoods in the surrounding area

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00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:51,680
out in more rural areas like here or
elsewhere than compared to in the city.

234
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Uh but if they industrial zones and
cities, you know, people might already

235
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,279
be used to the industrial, you know,
type of dynamic there. people who

236
00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:02,399
decided to live out here, wanted to live
out here in a rural area, that's that's

237
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:06,396
why they live here or one of the reasons
why they live here, not to be in an

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00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:10,480
industrial zone like that. Uh
[clears throat] but uh but yeah, they

239
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:15,199
they want the water, they want the land,
they want the flat land,

240
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:18,880
um
I think if it is going to have negative

241
00:17:16,959 --> 00:17:21,919
externalities, as much as we don't want
it for the hundreds of people around it

242
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:26,959
here, if [clears throat] it's going to
have negative externalities within two

243
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:29,760
miles, it's less people in a rural area
like this than it would be in Detroit or

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Sure.
>> Lancing.

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00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:39,440
» And how many homes did you say is
equivalent to how much power it uses?

246
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:43,360
1. Okay, there we go. 1.17 million
houses is 1.4 gawatt.

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00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,960
» I thought I misunderstood that, but
that's what you said.

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00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:50,559
» Correct.
>> And um as far as employees go, um I I've

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heard that they want to be close to
communities so they can draw on

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00:17:52,799 --> 00:18:00,160
employees. In the seminars that I've
attended, um, they talk about when

251
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,080
they're, you know, their sales pitch,
they come in and say, "We're going to

252
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:08,400
provide, you know, 200 jobs or 350
jobs." And then when it's all said and

253
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:12,080
done, it's like a dozen people.
>> Yeah. It's around 10% of what has been

254
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:19,039
promised according to the Mina Center
from the year 2000 to 2020. But in the

255
00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:23,760
past five or six years with you know the
goan battery plan up north and then of

256
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:28,720
course as you all know here with blue
oval they've had promises of jobs that

257
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:32,799
are you know shrinking in terms of what
their expectations were. So they

258
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:38,400
continue to underdel on their promised
jobs. Absolutely. 10% of what they

259
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,320
promise is remarkably poor. Uh it's
proven to be failure for these corporate

260
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:47,280
giveaways. Just trusting free markets
and equal opportunity is certainly

261
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:51,120
advisable over, you know, corruption and
special interests and picking winners

262
00:18:49,039 --> 00:18:57,760
and losers and having it not come to
fruition and imposing on a community not

263
00:18:54,799 --> 00:19:03,760
off of a free market process.
>> Thank you, [snorts]

264
00:18:59,919 --> 00:19:08,160
» Mr. Sai. Any Commissioner Summers?
Commissioner Liz,

265
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,960
I have one last one
and [clears throat] then we'll see if

266
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:15,360
there's just a couple from the audience.
Um, let's talk non-disclosure

267
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:19,360
agreements. Um, you mentioned and I know
we've got the Michigan Economic

268
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:24,240
Development Corporation, is it? Um,
MEEDC. Um, and I've been watching a

269
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:28,720
little bit of legislation related to
non-disclosure agreements. What's

270
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:32,240
happening at the legislature um, you
know, related to addressing that issue?

271
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:36,160
Um there's folks here in the audience
who I know have been um you know have

272
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:41,039
been we've been part of this community
where that's obviously been an issue. Um

273
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:46,160
so tell us what our legislators are
doing related to that.

274
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:51,919
» So I had a bill passed last year that
legislators uh would not be able to sign

275
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:56,080
leg NDAs in their legislative capacity
and that also extended to their staff

276
00:19:54,160 --> 00:20:01,120
working in the members legislative
capacity.

277
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:05,919
But so that passed with bipartisan
support. I think it had every

278
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:11,039
Republican, but it had probably a
majority of the Democrats. It was about

279
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:16,720
a 3/4 of the legislature vote voted yes
in the House. Uh it is sitting in the

280
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:21,919
Senate currently awaiting a vote
hopefully, but I don't anticipate it's

281
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:26,000
going to happen because Governor Whitmer
doesn't want that to come before her.

282
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:30,960
She said she would veto. So the Senate
majority leader likes to, you know,

283
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:34,799
protect the governor from that potential
injury. So just doesn't bring it up for

284
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:38,320
a vote. That's the best thing they can
do with it to protect her from that

285
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:42,400
negative optic because the people
certainly Republicans, Democrats,

286
00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:47,360
independents are
very often in agreement that as public

287
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:52,240
servants, we should not be signing
secrecy packs about the work that we do.

288
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:56,320
as public servants, we should be open
and transparent with the community about

289
00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:02,320
what we're working on. Uh, but that did
only apply to the legislature for my

290
00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:06,559
bill. I do believe I think it's
Representative Miller, a Democrat, who

291
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:10,640
has it for local elected officials as
well. Uh, I would support that. That's a

292
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:15,520
little bit more difficult to get across
the finish line. More legislators would

293
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:20,000
support it for us in our legislative
capacity. there starts to be, you know,

294
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:26,080
some of my colleagues who are less
inclined to support it for local elected

295
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:31,919
officials. Um, you could have it. It's
more the business of the local community

296
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:36,080
talking about, you know, what type of
infrastructure capabilities there are

297
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:40,480
and wanting to protect a potential
consideration of investments. So, it's

298
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:45,120
it's harder to get some colleagues on
board for that, but I'm a yes that we

299
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:48,480
should not be signing NDAs or local
electeds either.

300
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:54,000
» Thank you for that. Does anybody in the
audience have one or two questions for

301
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:57,600
Representative Cara?
Okay. Anybody else?

302
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:01,360
» Wait a second. I think she got one.
>> Yes. Um, you know what? I'm going to ask

303
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,559
that you I hate to do this, but come up
to the podium if Representative Carla

304
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,320
can step aside for a second. That way,
we can catch your audio.

305
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,340
You didn't know that was part of the
deal, right? [cough]

306
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,340
[clears throat]

307
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:24,640
» I'm just here to ask
if Whitmer will more than likely veto

308
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:31,840
it. And my name is Laura Valentine.
Sorry. Um, is there something we as

309
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:36,559
residents can do to let Whitmer know? We
don't [snorts] want her to v video veto

310
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:41,280
it. And will she listen to us?
>> No. [snorts]

311
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:44,799
» Thank you.
>> Yes.

312
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:48,559
» So letting her know that's your stance
that you would not want her to vetoed is

313
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:53,679
certainly something that you could do.
Uh whether it's reaching out to her

314
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:58,880
office or you know making other people
aware of that situation and encouraging

315
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:02,400
them. This is what we need to ensure
that these you know corrupt deals don't

316
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:08,559
continue to happen in the state of
Michigan. Uh but the problem is she

317
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:14,720
doesn't get a chance to sign it into law
or veto it unless it comes to her desk.

318
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:20,320
And the Senate majority leader is Winnie
Brinks who is her choice for Lieutenant

319
00:23:17,919 --> 00:23:24,720
Governor. And so when Gretchen Whitmer
tells Senate Majority Leader Winnie

320
00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:28,720
Brinks, don't let that bill get through
the Senate,

321
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:33,120
she's going to listen and not let it get
through the Senate. We only get to vote

322
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:38,880
on what comes up for a vote and it's the
leader of the chamber who decides what

323
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:44,720
we get to vote on. So Winnie Brinks gets
to protect Gretch and Whitmer by not

324
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:47,200
bringing it up for a vote.
>> Unfortunately,

325
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,320
» Representative Carl, thank you so much
for being here. Really, really

326
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:54,240
appreciate it. And oh, was there another
Oh,

327
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:57,796
» you want to come up to the podium?
Last one. [clears throat]

328
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:07,039
this opportunity.
Uh yeah, Steve knows who I am. Barry

329
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:14,400
Wayne Adams. Um
we're seeing a

330
00:24:09,679 --> 00:24:20,960
rash of efforts at different areas where
they're trying to put in data centers

331
00:24:16,736 --> 00:24:27,200
[clears throat] to impose moratoria like
what's going to be happening here.

332
00:24:23,941 --> 00:24:31,760
[clears throat] But uh sufficient
information uh particularly about the

333
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:39,039
hypers scale data centers has come out
to conclusively and decisively prove

334
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:43,360
that their installation and use is a an
immediate and like you say existential

335
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:49,279
threat to the to the public health and
safety. Now the whole purpose of police

336
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:56,159
power is to protect the public health
and safety. Can you move on a different

337
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:59,200
legislative strategy instead of trying
to kick the can down the road with a

338
00:24:57,679 --> 00:25:04,799
moratorum
to actually move to

339
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:09,960
prohibit the installation of these data
centers? Thanks, Steve.

340
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960
» No.

341
00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:16,559
» Yeah, Barry, I definitely understand
where you're where you're coming from

342
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:20,559
with that. I people have said that I
have come out in support of a moratorum

343
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:24,480
and I don't know if it's because I went
around with Perry Johnson on a bus tour

344
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:28,000
and he supported it or or where they get
that from but I don't believe I have

345
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,279
ever said that because like you're
saying [clears throat] I feel like I've

346
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:37,120
already done my homework on data
centers. I feel like I've already seen

347
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:44,080
from an environmental impact and power
consumption use that would not get me to

348
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:48,720
a prohibition stance, but an existential
threat to humanity and the research that

349
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:53,600
I've done with it gets me to a
prohibition level. And I say that as the

350
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:58,080
most pro- freedom limited government
elected official in the state of

351
00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:01,760
Michigan. That sounds counterintuitive
to my position to prohibit a private

352
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:07,440
decision of what you do with private
property that you chose to purchase. But

353
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:11,679
if it's going to wipe out humanity,
you kind of need to have serious

354
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:16,240
conversations about what happens to the
8 billion people who didn't want to lose

355
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,600
their lives because you were so foolish
with achieving artificial super

356
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:26,400
intelligence because of your power and
greed. So yeah, no I I am like you uh

357
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,520
more on the line of prohibition. I I
wouldn't say for all data centers, you

358
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:34,080
know, there's some data centers that are
used for uh keeping medical records or

359
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:38,720
things of that sort, but for data
centers for the purpose of uh achieving

360
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:42,000
higher powered artificial intelligence.
I think we need to have those

361
00:26:39,679 --> 00:26:44,000
prohibition conversations and I'm there
with you.

362
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,440
» Thank you.
>> Y

363
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,840
» thank you represent. Thank you very
much.

364
00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:48,840
» Thank you.

365
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,440
Moving

366
00:26:53,440 --> 00:27:02,320
on to public comments on agenda items
only. Um so once again um we do ask that

367
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:07,000
you come to the podium for any public
comments on agenda items only.

368
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:12,600
Seeing none

369
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,228
» every time I say that then there's there
we got one. Come on. [clears throat]

370
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:26,960
I thought there would at least be
somebody talking on the agenda item.

371
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:33,440
Okay. Uh yeah, the moratorum thing.
Uh I don't know if you've kept track of

372
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:42,240
what happened with the moratorum
activity over in the city, but uh there

373
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:44,480
was a concerted effort by some citizens.
>> Thank you.

374
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,400
» Is that all right?
>> Better. Much better.

375
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:56,480
» All right. There was a concerted effort
by citizens to uh start an initiative

376
00:27:51,919 --> 00:28:02,240
drive uh to have a moratorium about data
centers for 365 days. [clears throat]

377
00:28:00,399 --> 00:28:06,320
Well, there was a very positive
response. Uh actually there are other

378
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:09,520
people who were involved with that who
could speak to it better than I can

379
00:28:08,609 --> 00:28:17,279
[clears throat] but there was a very
positive response. sufficient uh

380
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:26,399
signatures were obtained. But um
in order to uh do a shortcut around what

381
00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:33,120
the citizens were trying to do, the
city council decided to pull an uh

382
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:40,559
ambush agenda
maneuver and they suddenly put a agenda

383
00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:43,520
item without any sufficient public
notice beforehand.

384
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:52,399
uh [clears throat]
and then proceeded to unanimously

385
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:57,440
uh enact a quote unquote moratorum that
is actually a non-moratorum because it

386
00:28:55,279 --> 00:29:05,840
provides itself the ability to either
extend or to terminate earlier a 365day

387
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:12,240
moratorum. So
it it actually is reflective of the uh

388
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:18,320
arrogance that the uh local marshall uh
city government has about the citizenry

389
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:23,760
and and their real concerns. and they
thought that they could just uh do this

390
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:27,679
uh legislative sugar pill
uh to

391
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:33,760
uh
you know be a panacea you know pabum for

392
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:39,279
the masses.
So, uh, if you're going to do a

393
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:45,360
moratorum, be authentic about it,
put hard boundaries on it, and not make

394
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:50,135
it something that you can just decide
we're going to stop having a moratorum

395
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:53,760
and, uh, we'll just proceed as usual.
>> [clears throat]

396
00:29:50,799 --> 00:30:01,919
» So, uh,
as I've seen the Marshall Township, uh,

397
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:09,520
Council operate, it it does operate in
clear distinction to the, uh, methods of

398
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:15,440
the Marshall City Council. And uh
particularly with uh Joanna

399
00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:20,799
uh at the helm uh we're seeing an effort
to you know provide hearings that uh

400
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:26,880
create opportunities for full and
complete dis disclosure

401
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:33,840
about uh about issues without having the
taint of NDAs or uh and like Steve said

402
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:40,559
you know well it's actually incorporated
into the Michigan file laws at MCL 75492

403
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:47,840
do that you can't withhold public
information from the public.

404
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:54,320
So uh these are the things that
uh we should be concerned about and

405
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:59,039
again perhaps you people
on the basis of

406
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:06,159
an actual threat to the public health
and safety because we we've already seen

407
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:13,320
the mistake that MA has brought upon the
township.

408
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:13,320
uh the mega mistake and uh

409
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:21,760
the methods that were used to accomplish
this which are still up in the air in in

410
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:25,440
the Michigan Supreme Court.
So, [clears throat]

411
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:30,640
uh
I see that there is a bit of uh

412
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:35,440
post-purchase regret
uh after the

413
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,679
mileong
denatured sterile abomination on the

414
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:45,600
land that they call the blue oval
factory has been put in place. and the

415
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:51,600
real
alterations in the quality of life that

416
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:55,600
uh have occurred since the
implementation

417
00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:05,120
of that construction.
So, uh, think twice, uh,

418
00:32:00,399 --> 00:32:11,279
or more times than that about the
irreplaceable destruction of

419
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:14,399
wetlands, wildlife habitat, and
productive farmland.

420
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:18,080
» Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you.

421
00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:22,152
» If you want to speak, just come on up to
the podium.

422
00:32:20,132 --> 00:32:22,152
[snorts]

423
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:30,640
I just want to say Rebecca Sebring
Marshall um historical Marshall I just

424
00:32:28,159 --> 00:32:36,799
want to say thank you for putting in a
moratorum or attempting to and thank you

425
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:41,200
for safeguarding we the people we do
appreciate you. I know we don't always

426
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:46,000
make it out here but I just want the
ones that are trying to make sure that

427
00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:50,559
we're safe. I want to say thank you very
much and you are appreciated.

428
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,192
» Thank you. Any
other comments? Feel free to come on up

429
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,212
to the podium.
[clears throat]

430
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:06,640
Linds Light Marshall. Um, just briefly,
I wanted to speak about what a little

431
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:11,360
bit about what Barry was talking about.
He was talking about a committee in

432
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:16,399
Marshall and I'm the chairperson of that
committee. We call ourselves CRED, which

433
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:21,519
is the committee for responsible
economic and environmental development.

434
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:27,760
And yes, we have worked very hard. We
actually got 727 signatures so quick. It

435
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:34,240
was just overwhelming how many people
were supportive of our moratorum.

436
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:38,960
And yes, as Barry said, the city did put
a moratorium in place while we were

437
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:46,559
waiting for our signatures to
be um sufficient to be seen as

438
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:52,720
sufficient. Um, there's going to be a
short article in this week's advisor.

439
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:57,519
I've been speaking with Seth Barry. I
tried to get it in last week, but we did

440
00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:02,799
a few little edits and he checked to
make sure that what I was saying was

441
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:07,360
correct. Um, and he's fully satisfied
that what I'm saying is correct. So, he

442
00:34:05,679 --> 00:34:12,879
said he would put something in the
advisor this week. But I mostly wanted

443
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:17,280
to say yes, thank you for working on a
mortorium here, but also if you have any

444
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:21,119
questions from what we're doing, I'd be
glad to talk to someone any of you

445
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:26,603
afterwards if you wish to.
>> Thank you.

446
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,603
» Anyone else? [clears throat and cough]

447
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:34,560
» Good evening, planning commission. Is it
a commission or a board?

448
00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:40,480
» Commission.
>> Okay. Thank you for this. and I really

449
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:44,159
like um the professional way you conduct
this board. I just want to say thank

450
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:50,159
you. Uh the agenda item I wanted to
refer to is the master plan amendment.

451
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:54,960
Um I am in full support of the
township's master plan. I'm not um

452
00:34:52,960 --> 00:35:02,079
technically a citizen yet, but the man I
love is and he's about one mile um that

453
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:08,720
way from the mega center. Um, and I
appreciate all your hard work. Um, and I

454
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:12,640
think we got a good group here. I think
you have integrity. I don't think we

455
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:17,839
have to worry about NDAs anymore. Thank
goodness. Um, that's that's a no-brainer

456
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:26,880
for anybody in public service. I would
hope. Um, and um, I am once again very

457
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:31,680
thankful that Joanna has done so much
work on this master plan. And that's all

458
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:37,200
I wanted to say. Oh, I'm saying this
because I won't be here at that public

459
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:40,599
hearing. Thank you.
>> Any other comments?

460
00:35:41,219 --> 00:35:43,239
[clears throat]

461
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:53,760
» Dury Parker, City of Marshall. Um, I
just wanted to follow up on what Lynid

462
00:35:51,200 --> 00:36:00,240
said because I'm one of the members of
Creed as well and we do plan on going

463
00:35:57,359 --> 00:36:06,160
back out again and collecting signatures
so that we can be on well not the

464
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:12,839
November ballot but the May ballot.
>> Thank you.

465
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,839
» All right. Any other comments?

466
00:36:13,315 --> 00:36:15,335
» [clears throat]

467
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,960
» Uh, good evening members of the planning
commission. My name is Aaron Reed and

468
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:26,320
I'm here on behalf of the Marshall Area
Economic Development Alliance, MA, the

469
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:31,440
application on the major campus zoning
map amendment. Uh, thank you for the

470
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:35,520
time and care the commission has already
given this application. Uh, I'd like to

471
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:41,040
provide a brief recap of where things
stand. Uh, MA submitted its request to

472
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:46,480
reszone the 31 subject parcels on July
30th, 20 26. At your August 4th meeting,

473
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:50,160
the commission acknowledged receipt and
the zoning administrator confirmed that

474
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:54,079
the application was complete. There was
a helpful discussion that evening about

475
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:57,599
how best to proceed and the commission
chose to postpone further action until

476
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,480
tonight to give members additional time
to review the materials. Following the

477
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:06,160
meeting on August 10th,
uh following that meeting on August

478
00:37:03,839 --> 00:37:12,079
10th, the zoning administrator asked Ma
to add lot size, frontage, depth, and

479
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:16,240
area directly to each parcel application
rather than referencing the provided

480
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:21,839
alta surveys for each parcel. The
commission also asked for a GIS parcel

481
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:26,240
map for each parcel, and Chair Johnson
asked for a large format map showing

482
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:31,599
each parcel's current zoning alongside
the requested zoning. On August 25th, MA

483
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:36,079
provided the requested information, the
enlarged maps, the updated applications

484
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:40,640
with the dimensional information and the
additional GIS maps. Um, with that, I'd

485
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,480
like to briefly walk through why we
believe this is a sound request using

486
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:49,440
the same four standards the application
addresses. Standard one, consistency

487
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:53,760
with the master plan.
This request, this request is very much

488
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:58,880
in keeping with the plan the township
has already adopted. The currently

489
00:37:55,599 --> 00:38:04,720
adopted 2022 master plan designates
these parcels heavy industrial on its

490
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:10,000
future land use map. The 2022 process
created that category and applied it to

491
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:14,160
sections 28 and 29 of the township. The
plan's zoning plan pairs heavy

492
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:20,160
industrial with the industrial park
designation IP, the district that most

493
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:25,119
closely follows that designation.
Uh and the picture on the ground

494
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:28,880
supports it as well. Since 2022, Ford's
Blue Oval Battery Park has been built

495
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:32,000
and is entering production, supported by
more than hundreds of millions of

496
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,440
dollars in infrastructure investment.
This resoning helps align the zoning

497
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,599
with the vision the township had already
laid out. Standard two, environmental

498
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:43,760
compatibility. The master plan
thoughtfully cited industrial industry

499
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:48,400
here because the land is level, well-
drained, and well suited to it. and it

500
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:53,280
directed that sensitive features within
the conservation district and roughly

501
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:57,839
245 acres along the Kazoo River are in
the process of being placed in that

502
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:02,480
conservation easement. Because the heavy
industrial designation anticipates

503
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:06,240
planned public utilities, these parcels
have the ability to be served by public

504
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:10,960
water and sewer as part of the buildout
of the major campus. Standard three,

505
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:15,839
compatibility with surrounding uses.
These parcels sit within the campus and

506
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:19,760
adjoined Ford's blue oval plant. So, IP
zoning fits comfortably within the

507
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:25,040
established and planned industrial use
of the area. Standard four,

508
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,240
infrastructure capacity. [snorts] The
site is well positioned to accommodate

509
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:32,640
these uses with the necessary
infrastructure substantially in place or

510
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:36,480
planned. City water and sanitary sewer
have been extended through 425

511
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:41,280
agreements. Regional storm water basins
are built and MDOT has rebuilt Michigan

512
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:45,680
Avenue into a multi-lane boulevard with
reconstructed interchanges. Electric,

513
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:50,320
gas, and fiber have already been
extended into the campus. Across all

514
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:55,200
four standards, we believe this
application is consistent with the

515
00:39:51,839 --> 00:39:58,000
adopted plan, complete and responsive to
the commission's request. We

516
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,800
respectfully ask that the commission
advance it and we appreciate your

517
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,560
consideration. Thank you.
>> Eron, I have a question for you. Um,

518
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:09,200
what was August 10th? Was that Were you
referring to the email you sent me?

519
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:12,160
» So, there was an email that uh Shelley
provided with a list of things to

520
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,720
change. Okay. Within the application.
>> Okay. Thank you.

521
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,359
» Any other comments? Come on up.

522
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,280
» Is that like the prices, right? I can't
remember. Come on up.

523
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,680
» Come on down.
>> Come on down. Come on down.

524
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:38,593
» You may not want me to come down.
>> Oh, you're more than welcome.

525
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:42,720
» Brian Motor, Marshall, Michigan. Uh
[clears throat]

526
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:50,160
we have a kind of a common history when
it comes to petitions and signatures and

527
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:59,280
getting things uh through uh to get it
beyond uh strict uh governmental control

528
00:40:54,079 --> 00:41:07,040
from uh above us. Um, initially I became
a kind of aware of this when we had

529
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:13,599
people who were three possible potential
candidates to run for governor against

530
00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:19,760
Whitmer in her reelection campaign. And
the state elections committee recommend

531
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:25,200
recommended petitioners for these people
to circulate so they could become

532
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:30,720
eligible to be in the primary.
Now, it turned out to be kind of funny

533
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:38,000
that these petitions that got turned in
by a certain company were uh illeible,

534
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:44,400
um erroneous,
uh false names, false addresses, nothing

535
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:52,560
could be verified on these uh petitions
that so three top candidates to run for

536
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:59,680
governor against Whitmer got eliminated
and they uh win this happened. Uh this

537
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:06,640
group of petitioners left town and went
to some other state and the the

538
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:11,040
uh elections committee wasn't able to
either contact them or trace them down

539
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:14,160
or or figure out where they were at.
They disappeared off the face of the

540
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:21,520
earth.
Now, we also had problems with petitions

541
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:27,520
in Marshall and we also had problems
with uh a joint was this a joint

542
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:31,599
planning commission or zoning
commission? joint zoning commission

543
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:39,040
between Marshall Commission
>> and uh Marshall Township

544
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:47,040
and we uh succeeded in having a 3-2 vote
on a joint venture and it got overridden

545
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:55,200
by the city of Marshall and this is part
of our um case in the Supreme Court that

546
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:58,319
this was done erroneously,
fraudulently

547
00:42:56,720 --> 00:43:07,520
and I'm moving this thing around. I
better slow down. So, but uh there's a

548
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:15,040
history of of being pressured from above
governor's office on down to eliminate

549
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:22,079
uh competition and it's still going on.
So, it's and I'm I'm really sorry about

550
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:28,240
uh the data centers also the battery
plants being concerned about the money.

551
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:32,880
The money is the whole thing that runs
everything. And the three millionaires

552
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:38,640
are taking advantage of the common
people, the people that live here, go to

553
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:44,480
school here, work here, and have family
here. And that's the the terrible thing

554
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:49,200
about it is it's the billionaires
against us common people. Thank you.

555
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,220
» Comments.
[snorts]

556
00:43:51,820 --> 00:43:56,280
[clears throat]
Oops.

557
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:07,680
» Marshall Township. I have a question. I
keep hearing about these 31 parcels

558
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:12,160
» and I'm just wondering what is supposed
to be going on these. I know it's

559
00:44:10,319 --> 00:44:16,720
supposed to be heavy industrial, but
what

560
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:21,520
» is this going to be a data center
or what? What or a battery storage unit?

561
00:44:19,359 --> 00:44:30,000
What what the heck is going on there?
what is proposed to be on there. I mean,

562
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:35,119
I don't want to have it what the zoning
uh approved, resoning approved unless I

563
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:41,319
know what's on there. So, what is it
supposed to become? Tell us. Thank you.

564
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,560
Any other comments?

565
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:55,359
If you look in the zoning ordinance
book, reszoning this parcel

566
00:44:51,920 --> 00:45:00,079
allows specific uses that Marshall
Township has agreed to. [clears throat]

567
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:03,680
Um, to be quite honest, they're quite
compatible with the standard light

568
00:45:01,839 --> 00:45:08,079
industrial. There are just a few that
are different. If you're interested, you

569
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:12,960
can go online to the ordinance book
under article 4, commercial and

570
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:19,280
industrial, and you'll be able to see
what IP allows as any use. Any use that

571
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:23,040
would need to would go in there if it
was permitted would not go through the

572
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,319
planning commission. If it's a special
land use, it would be required to be

573
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:31,440
approved through the planning
commission. So, there are designated

574
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:35,119
uses for that specific district that the
township has already laid out.

575
00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:41,839
Thank you.
>> Readers Clingler from Marshall. Good.

576
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:45,040
Um, now we're talking about the mega
site and the transfer of parcels. I

577
00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:50,319
don't know if that was going to be on
the agenda, but uh I I

578
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:55,440
» speaking to the 31 parcels or
>> Yeah, the 31 parcels being transferred

579
00:45:52,720 --> 00:46:01,599
over. Um, I know that's coming up at a
different public hearing, but I just

580
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:07,440
want to congratulate this board for
getting involved and uh also the joint

581
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:12,240
planning commission and I hope they will
be involved in the zoning for that rest

582
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:17,119
of that mega site. They really should be
because they have control of land use in

583
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:23,680
the 425 agreement.
Um,

584
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:29,680
also I hope the township stays on track
and holds made it to the water franchise

585
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,520
agreement. That's something that should
be settled and it should be probably

586
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:38,160
done before anything else goes out of
the at the mega site. So again,

587
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:48,560
congratulations on what you have done
and for your uh continuing interest in

588
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:54,920
protecting people and keeping
uh the mega site plans as open as

589
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,920
possible. Thank you.

590
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:03,280
» Anyone else?
>> All right, seeing none, uh we're moving

591
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:08,319
on to item G, which is the approval of
the minutes. These are our August 4th uh

592
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:12,907
2026 uh meeting minutes. Is there a
motion to approve the minutes? [cough]

593
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:18,119
» Move to approve the August
[clears throat] 4th uh PC minutes.

594
00:47:18,147 --> 00:47:21,920
[clears throat]
>> We have a motion by Commissioner Sly,

595
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:25,680
seconded by Commissioner Riggs to
approve our August 4th uh planning

596
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:31,040
commission meeting minutes. Any
discussion, questions or concerns?

597
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:35,839
» Hearing and seeing none, all those in
favor signify by saying I.

598
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:41,520
» I. All those opposed, same sign. Motion
carries. Uh we're moving on to our

599
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:46,560
presentation by our attorney Rob Th
who's going to share information on data

600
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:52,960
centers and battery en energy storage
systems. I do want to say last evening

601
00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:57,200
uh the majority of this board attended a
um training on hot topics in planning

602
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:01,440
and zoning. And you can guess these were
two of the hot topics in planning and

603
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:06,079
zoning. Um and we thought it would be a
good idea. We did ask a variety of folks

604
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:09,839
to come in. I know Shelley did as well
with the University of Michigan has

605
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:14,800
folks that have studied this as well. Um
but we thought it'd be good to have um

606
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:18,079
Rob here um who's wellversed in this um
to share information not only with the

607
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:20,400
planning commission but with all of you
as well. So Rob, thank you for being

608
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:23,680
here.
>> Thank you.

609
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:28,240
» Thank you.
>> So there really hasn't been a hotter

610
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:33,119
topic since really since I've been an
attorney than data centers. I mean, this

611
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:38,319
is this is a very tough issue. It
presents very real uh issues for

612
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:42,720
communities, very real nuisances. Uh
we're learning stuff on a daily basis

613
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:48,400
about them and about the impacts of
them. And so, um it's it's very it's a

614
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:51,359
very important subject. I'm glad, you
know, we're going to spend the time to

615
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:55,520
talk about it and we're going to spend a
lot more time talking about it uh moving

616
00:48:53,839 --> 00:48:58,720
forward.
You know, it's one of those things we

617
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:02,480
hear, well, I'll just prohibit it, you
know, and that presents its own problems

618
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:05,920
because data centers are subject to
zoning. It's a little different than

619
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:10,960
what we'll talk about with battery
storage projects. Uh, data centers are

620
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:15,760
subject to our zoning ordinance, but
there are zoning concepts called

621
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:20,720
exclusionary zoning. And you have to
really do your homework. If you even

622
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:25,200
want the idea of prohibiting it, you're
going to have to do your homework to get

623
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:30,319
to the point where you can justify it to
be able to present your case in court

624
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:34,000
and have that case upheld. You can't
just say, "We're just prohibiting it."

625
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:37,920
You do that, you're going to lose in
court every day. You know, you have to

626
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,640
do your homework. I don't know where you
end up at the end of the process, but

627
00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:46,720
you got to do your homework to get
there. uh Selen Township got caught kind

628
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:50,400
of with, you know, unprepared and they
did like they said, they got sued and

629
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:53,760
settled, but they got sued for
exclusionary zoning because they

630
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:57,839
prohibited it just off the bat. You
know, we're okay, we're just not going

631
00:49:55,599 --> 00:50:02,559
to allow this. You get sued for
exclusionary zoning, you get quit on the

632
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:08,079
spot. Okay, how why why did you exclude
it? And you know, they faced huge

633
00:50:05,839 --> 00:50:11,280
damages if they move forward. Maybe
that's I I don't know the case

634
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:17,280
personally so I don't know why they
settled but they end up settling and now

635
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:22,960
they have a huge uh data center going in
like uh like indicated it's going to use

636
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:28,400
tremendous amounts of energy uses
tremendous amounts of land impacts

637
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:32,400
there's tremendous impacts from that.
So, we really want to make sure that

638
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,520
we're doing our homework so we don't end
up in a situation like that where

639
00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:39,680
somebody can just kind of kick down the
door of the township and say, "Okay,

640
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:45,359
well, we already options from land. We
want to come in here and stop us, you

641
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:49,040
know, we want to we want to be able to
protect ourselves from that." So, just

642
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:52,079
in general, you know, data centers,
there's different kinds of data centers.

643
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:57,520
You know, all of our computer
information goes through a data center.

644
00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:01,200
So it's um you know whenever anything's
stored in the cloud the cloud's

645
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:06,160
somewhere it's a data center somewhere.
Uh there's also artificial intelligence

646
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:12,000
which uh was referred to which uses a
lot more uh capacity processing power

647
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:18,000
energy to do and you know that's kind of
the thing that we're really hearing now

648
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:21,760
is the push for AI and the information
uh and the and the data centers that are

649
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:26,720
used for that. So the big thing that
we're seeing are the hypers scale data

650
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:31,920
centers. So that's the big issue that
everybody sees front and center these

651
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:36,640
giant hundreds of acres of buildings and
and industrial we consider it

652
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:40,880
industrial. So when I talk to you and we
look at this more we're going to look at

653
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:46,480
this as an industrial project. It's not
a agricultural. It doesn't belong out in

654
00:51:43,839 --> 00:51:50,720
agg. It's a industrial project these
data centers. But you have these hypers

655
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:55,359
scale which are huge have huge impacts.
But then you also have smaller data

656
00:51:52,319 --> 00:52:00,160
centers that might be uh they might be
um just located within a corporate

657
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:02,480
structure. So you can have uh corporate
headquarters in that corporate

658
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:06,880
headquarters. They're going to have
their own data centers in those places.

659
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:10,480
uh whether or not uh you would even
know, you probably wouldn't know that

660
00:52:08,319 --> 00:52:14,160
it's in there um because it's
coll-located within another facility.

661
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:18,400
You can have other smaller buildings
that look like office buildings that

662
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:23,520
might be uh a data center. Uh it could
be developer built and then lease out

663
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:28,640
space in the data center or it could be
uh proprietary and owned by the company

664
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:33,359
that that uses it. So there's different
types of data centers, but in all cases

665
00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:37,440
because of the impacts, even the smaller
ones, I I would classify them all as

666
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:43,680
industrial because of the types of
impacts they have with noise, with

667
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:49,160
vibration, with uh with um electric
usage, those types of things, and we'll

668
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:49,160
address those later.

669
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:55,599
So you know, why the sudden interest in
data centers? Well, and and this goes to

670
00:52:53,839 --> 00:52:59,440
part of the reason why we can't just say
we prohibit it because we'll learn about

671
00:52:57,839 --> 00:53:04,480
exclusionary zoning. One of the things
is is there a demonstrated need for it?

672
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:09,359
Well, our government has told us there's
a demonstrated need for it whether we

673
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:14,240
like it or not. Uh President Trump has
an executive order on AI saying that we

674
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:18,960
should be number one in AI, that we
should innovate without cumbersome

675
00:53:15,839 --> 00:53:25,839
regulation. He just came out with a a
tweet August or a a post August 31st. Um

676
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,680
I'll just read it for you. The only
reason the communities throughout the

677
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:34,000
USA should not want data centers is they
want to end up being backwards and poor.

678
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:39,359
If they want to be successful and rich
with far lower taxes and jobs all over

679
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:43,440
the place, let data rain. So that's from
the federal government telling us we

680
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:49,040
need data centers. Our state government
has gone ahead and pressed and passed

681
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:54,000
legislation in 2024. Uh eliminates the
6% sales and use tax on the eligible

682
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:58,480
data center construction and equipment
purchases. And um you know to do that

683
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,520
they have to invest a certain amount.
They have to create a certain number of

684
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:06,960
jobs and there's other requirements but
our state has put them out there that

685
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:12,319
they want to attract data centers and
have put out uh tax exemptions for them.

686
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:15,440
So we're facing kind of an uphill battle
at the local level because both our

687
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:19,920
federal government, state government
have said we have this need for these

688
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:23,079
things. And so it kind of puts us behind
the eightball

689
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:32,240
again around Michigan. We have already
uh there's over 44 data centers already

690
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:36,319
in Michigan of various sizes. Um again,
we don't necessarily you don't even

691
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:40,400
notice a lot of them. uh but the hypers
scale ones, the large ones that use a

692
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:44,800
lot of land that are coming in and
trying to kind of kick down the door

693
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:48,559
more rural townships and and locate and
use where you have a lot of land. Uh

694
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:54,400
that's what's creating these
controversies and really the the large

695
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:58,400
impact um on us.
So the one thing um if you go the next

696
00:54:57,599 --> 00:55:01,440
thing I want to talk about is
exclusionary zoning because I think

697
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:05,920
that's really important. You know,
there's a lot of, you know, we can't

698
00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:09,440
just prohibit it. You prohibit it. If
you just said tomorrow, we could pass an

699
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:12,880
ordinance tomorrow that says we prohibit
it or we could just do nothing if it's

700
00:55:11,599 --> 00:55:18,640
not in our ordinance and it's
prohibited. But if we do that, we're

701
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:22,079
there's a standard in in zoning uh
called exclusionary zoning. And it says

702
00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:26,640
a zoning ordinance shall not have the
effect of totally prohibiting the

703
00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:29,920
establishment of a land use in the
township in the presence of a

704
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:34,079
demonstrated need in the township or
surrounding area. So the demonstrated

705
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:38,240
need part, our state and federal
government has already said there's a

706
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:42,880
demonstrated need for this. But then the
the the second part of it is unless a

707
00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:46,400
location does not exist within the
municipality where the use may be

708
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:50,480
appropriately located. And that's where
you have to do your homework because you

709
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:54,559
have to look at what all the issues are,
what the different nuisance issues are.

710
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:59,119
And is there a spot where it would fit
in an industrial zone in your township?

711
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:01,839
And if you can, you know, as you go
through this process, the only way

712
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:05,839
you're going to prohibit it is if you
determine that there's no appropriate

713
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:10,480
location in your township. But you can't
just say there's no appropriate location

714
00:56:08,319 --> 00:56:15,920
without again doing your homework and
being able to protect yourself from a

715
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:19,200
lawsuit if it were to come forward.
So that's that's part of this whole

716
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:23,920
process and why you know we're going to
go into well we're going to talk about a

717
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:30,000
moratorum.
Um you know just some some anecdotal

718
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:35,040
information again uh with Selen Township
that is what happened. They were not

719
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:41,040
prepared. They tried to prohibit it and
then they got sued for exclusionary

720
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:43,839
zoning and chose to resolve it. They
must not have felt they could defend

721
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:49,680
themselves. They weren't in a position
to defend themselves and they would have

722
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:54,559
faced massive damages if they uh
probably were at least threatened with

723
00:56:51,839 --> 00:57:00,319
massive damages. You know, you could be
in the 50 to 100 million or plus in

724
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:06,160
damages. And what happens then if you
get hit with damages, it ends up being a

725
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:11,359
millage that you have to pass on the
public within your community and the

726
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:15,520
public has to pay it. So, it's a real
threat. You gota again that's why we

727
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:20,720
protect ourselves and do it the right
way so that if we do end up in a

728
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:26,240
situation uh we're not going to get
we're going to be in the best situation

729
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:30,400
possible to face exclusionary zoning.
So what are some of the issues you know

730
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:35,760
with data centers we have you know it's
high demand for utilities you heard you

731
00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:40,960
know it's over a million homes worth of
energy for the Selen Township one I

732
00:57:38,319 --> 00:57:47,440
think um for every mega for every
gigawatt it's about 800,000 homes so

733
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:56,480
it's a it's a huge electrical demand for
these facilities uh water cooling is an

734
00:57:50,720 --> 00:58:01,040
issue uh that um that would is
potential nuisance. You have excessive

735
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:06,160
water use. They if they use evaporative
cooling, it uses tremendous amounts of

736
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:10,400
water and if you don't have a if you're
not hooked up to a public water system,

737
00:58:08,319 --> 00:58:14,880
it's just pulling out of the aquifer. If
you are, then it's still going through a

738
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:21,680
public system. Uh water cooling is a
huge issue. You know, as you look at how

739
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:25,760
to uh mitigate those issues, you might
look at that something like it's a

740
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:30,240
closed loop water system. So they don't
get to just evaporative cool. So there's

741
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:36,240
different things that you can do to
regulate it. Uh and if you do regulate

742
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:41,119
it, you can regulate it very extremely.
Um

743
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:44,720
uh another thing is the electric rates,
you know, but that's something we're not

744
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:49,119
in control of. We can't we can tell them
you have to find your own power source.

745
00:58:46,559 --> 00:58:53,200
You're not going to use what the
existing power is in our in our township

746
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:58,240
or in our grid here. you're going to
have to create new power and bring it

747
00:58:55,040 --> 00:59:02,480
into the township. Um, but we can't
control what rates the NPS, well, you

748
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:08,640
can argue with the NPSC about it, but
you can't as a township board control

749
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:16,319
that. So, that is an issue um to think
about. Uh, you know, in um you know, we

750
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:21,839
have a lot of other issues uh that that
stem from it. And that's why you know as

751
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:25,520
we move forward we really want you to
consider the moratorum because it gives

752
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:30,799
you that time that gives you that
breathing room to study the issues. You

753
00:59:28,319 --> 00:59:35,680
can have experts come and appear and and
give you information. You can look at

754
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:39,599
restrictions if you choose. Uh you can
look at areas you're going to need to

755
00:59:37,599 --> 00:59:43,599
look at. Is there appropriate areas
within the township for it? You know

756
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:50,079
what would be an appropriate location?
uh things of that sort to protect

757
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:53,359
yourself. Um so we would want you to uh
consider the mortorium. We'll talk about

758
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:57,240
that a little bit more when that item
comes up for public hearing.

759
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:04,720
Um with uh site selection for data
centers, you know, again, it's our

760
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:08,640
position that it is an industrial use.
It should not go in anywhere. It doesn't

761
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:14,720
belong in commercial. It doesn't belong
in a or residential. you know, it is a

762
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:18,880
pure industrial use. Uh, so it's going
to have to have the adequate resources,

763
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:24,000
electricity. It's going to be need to be
located near large power lines. Um,

764
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:29,359
you're going to have to consider other
uh land around where it could possibly

765
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:33,920
locate to asssure that that's industrial
in nature.

766
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:39,839
Um, you know, in terms of electricity,
um, DTE Energy has 4 gigawatts of active

767
01:00:37,599 --> 01:00:45,839
data center projects and proposals in
Michigan right now. The total peak

768
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:49,680
electrical load is 18 gawatts. So, you
can see how much these things are energy

769
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:54,640
hogs, how much energy they're going to
be using. you know, that's going to be,

770
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:58,880
you know, millions of homes worth of
electricity and a large percentage of

771
01:00:56,240 --> 01:01:04,400
the total electricity that we have now
uh for these uh and that's just for

772
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:08,720
their active and proposed projects. Um,
so you can see how that uh impacts

773
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:13,920
things, but again, we can't control the
rates, but in an ordinance, you can say

774
01:01:10,799 --> 01:01:18,880
that you have to bring in your or prove
that you're supplying new energy to the

775
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:22,720
facility.
Um one of the things that we do in

776
01:01:20,799 --> 01:01:28,480
regulation is we can regulate the power
usage effectiveness of uh data center.

777
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:34,960
So that is something that it's the total
facility energy divided by uh the energy

778
01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:40,880
required to just run the computers. Um
and so uh you can require a very high

779
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:46,720
efficiency type of data center that
doesn't use as much electricity. Um and

780
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:52,079
that's just uh you [clears throat] know
one of the things that you can use to

781
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:58,160
regulate it. Uh noise is a huge concern
for data centers. So um and I'm sure

782
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,920
most people have heard the DeWAc data
center and the sound that that thing

783
01:01:59,839 --> 01:02:06,799
produces. You could it's easily you can
easily find it uh on the internet and

784
01:02:04,799 --> 01:02:11,119
see the type of sound that makes. But
you know they are the residents within a

785
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:14,720
one mile one mile of the data center. uh
they filed a federal lawsuit alleging

786
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:21,440
constant high-pitched cooling and
operational noises. So with a data

787
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:25,760
center, you have um you have the decibel
levels which we're used to regulating

788
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:30,640
the dBA which is the normal in our
ordinances we regulate in an industrial

789
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:35,119
zone or in a whatever zone it would be
certain sounds by DBA which is the

790
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:40,079
sounds that you normally hear. But
there's also a lot of other sounds that

791
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:44,319
you don't really hear but you sense. So
like there's low rumblings that can

792
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:49,760
impact your life. There's high-pitched
noises that can impact your life. Both

793
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:55,680
are not detected under the DBA. So you
have to look at other forms of sound uh

794
01:02:52,960 --> 01:03:00,880
regulation. It's called DBC which is the
very low rumbling sounds. You have to

795
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:04,559
regulate those things and you have to
keep them, you know, if if these things

796
01:03:02,799 --> 01:03:09,839
were to come in, you'd have to keep
their sound uh from impacting other

797
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:16,240
people's lives and property. So you have
to look at DBA, DBC. There's also

798
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:20,880
regulation by octave level which covers
then the high sounds and the low sounds

799
01:03:18,799 --> 01:03:26,160
and making sure they don't exceed in any
of those uh sound criteria. So you can

800
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:30,960
really go into a lot of depth with sound
to make sure that you are uh protecting

801
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:35,760
your resonance from the sound. The
computers make a constant sound 247. It

802
01:03:33,839 --> 01:03:43,200
never stops. is different than even a
factory doesn't make that kind of noise

803
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:47,680
all the time 24/7 uh 365 days a year.
You have coolers that make noise,

804
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:52,240
generators that make noise, you have
diesel backup uh generators,

805
01:03:50,484 --> 01:03:56,760
[clears throat] uh all these things uh
create a noise nuisance.

806
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,640
» There's a lot of different things you
can do to address that, but you know, I

807
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:06,160
don't have to go into that tonight. You
know, those are things that you're going

808
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:09,440
to go into and address over the next if
you adopt a moratorum and you go into

809
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:12,799
that over the next year, you'll be
looking at those types of things and

810
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:17,680
whether you can address them or whether
you can't, whether it's appropriate uh

811
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:23,359
in your township or not. Another issue
is vibration. So, that's a big issue of

812
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:27,200
vibration. They cause these facilities
cause vibration that can impact people's

813
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:31,760
lives. they might not know why they
can't sleep, but there's a vibration

814
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:35,520
coming from these facilities that uh can
impact the quality of life of

815
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:39,839
individuals. So, you know, you can
again, you have to if you do allow for

816
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:43,200
these things, you highly regulate them.
So, they can't produce a vibration

817
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:48,400
perceptible vibration beyond their
property line. You're not going to allow

818
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:53,359
them to impact other residents, other
property owners. Make them control their

819
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:56,720
impacts. If they can't, then they can't
be here, right?

820
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:05,839
Um so also you know in part of this
process you know if you do go into the

821
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:10,160
mortorium public input is very
important. You would have I would

822
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:14,720
suspect you know public hearings. Uh you
would have experts come in. The public

823
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:19,839
would be invited to listen and ask
questions things of that sort. Uh you

824
01:05:17,359 --> 01:05:25,520
would you'd want to be very transparent
in how you're looking at these things.

825
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:29,119
you already are very transparent as a as
a planning commission, but you would

826
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:34,319
make sure that the public is invited to
these things and able to ask questions

827
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:36,240
for themselves and get answers.
>> Obviously,

828
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:41,599
» obviously, you know, you would there
would be no NDAs and things of that

829
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:46,280
sort. Uh, you know, by the township. I
I'm pretty confident in that.

830
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:54,720
Um, so, you know, last week I I did a
presentation. I went through a sample

831
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:58,559
ordinance uh that was very restrictive.
I think you have copies of that. And so

832
01:05:57,119 --> 01:06:03,200
what I tried to do is develop an
ordinance that is extremely restrictive

833
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:07,520
on what they can do. So it's extremely
restrictive in water usage so that they

834
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:11,920
can't use any kind of evaporative
cooling. It have to be closed loop

835
01:06:09,039 --> 01:06:16,960
systems. Extremely restrictive on sound
so that the sound isn't impacting what

836
01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:24,960
we call sensitive land uses. So it's not
impacting dwellings or um uh uh you know

837
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:28,559
a nursing home or schools or dormitories
or whatever it might be. You know you're

838
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:32,720
you're controlling the impact. You're
controlling the nuisance because these

839
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:38,240
things produce their a large nuisance.
So aside from you know other issues

840
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:43,440
about you know AI in general the
facilities themselves produce large

841
01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:47,119
nuisances that you know that as I go
through that ordinance and you you know

842
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:51,599
over the next year if you look at those
provisions they're intended to reduce

843
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:57,599
the impact. I don't know if it it's too
restrictive but you know that's that's a

844
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:03,119
kind of not our problem. I I believe
they're all standards that could be met

845
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:07,599
but very restrictive. So, it's going to
not be impacting the properties around

846
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:13,039
it. I mean, that's ultimately what you
want to make sure is that the citizenry

847
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:16,400
is not uh impacted.
But again, you have to go through this

848
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:20,720
process
so that we don't end up in a situation

849
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:24,160
where you might want to prohibit it and
then you get hit with exclusionary

850
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,839
zoning. You're going to have to be able
to prove to a court if somebody calls

851
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:34,640
you into court that you did all the
right things, studied it and came up

852
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:39,200
with your local decision on zoning.
So with that on data centers, I would

853
01:07:37,039 --> 01:07:43,280
just uh that's what I have for data
centers. I can move on to best, but if

854
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,559
you want to stop now and ask me any
questions about data centers.

855
01:07:44,559 --> 01:07:50,000
» Commissioners, any questions on data
centers?

856
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:53,920
» I have a question. When you talked about
the

857
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:58,480
the different issues with vibration
sound, have you ever heard of anything?

858
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:03,839
They use a lot of electricity. Has there
ever been anything any complaints or

859
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:06,960
studies on stray voltage?
>> Oh, I'm sure they

860
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:10,640
» because they have a lot of they they
like to locate them by, you know, big

861
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:15,440
high tension lines coming in. Yeah, I I
know that stray voltage was a big big

862
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:20,239
issue, you know, a number of years ago
uh from power lines and their effect on

863
01:08:18,159 --> 01:08:24,080
» uh animals and and things of that sort.
So, I mean it's certainly something you

864
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:28,000
can look at is the stray voltage issue
and vol you know of all the power coming

865
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:31,600
into the facility. You hadn't heard of
anything though or

866
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:35,199
» I have not but it's like I said yeah I I
learn stuff almost on a daily basis

867
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:41,120
about it and I think everybody if you
start looking at it you will learn stuff

868
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:46,000
you know uh continuously for uh it's to
us it's a newer issue um and it's

869
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:50,319
something that just warrants more study
so like if there we can look into stray

870
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:56,000
voltage and have maybe somebody address
that you know as a issue.

871
01:08:54,080 --> 01:09:00,319
Any other questions?
>> Was Seline was that built on an

872
01:08:57,839 --> 01:09:07,400
industrial zone or
>> was hundreds of acres uh of I think it

873
01:09:03,679 --> 01:09:07,400
was probably a land.

874
01:09:07,839 --> 01:09:15,759
» So So they wanted to reszone they I
think as I recall they wanted to reszone

875
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:19,520
the property and then it was denied and
then they sued them for exclusionary

876
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:23,882
zoning.
>> So you can't even stop them if it's

877
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:27,520
» Well, you No, that's If you
[clears throat] say you say it's

878
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:32,880
industrial, we say it's an industrial
use, right? So it

879
01:09:30,480 --> 01:09:37,040
» it can't just go anywhere in our a
properties if it's industrial. You have

880
01:09:34,799 --> 01:09:40,480
certain you have a land use plan that
your zoning is based upon. You have to

881
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:44,719
make sure you have a strong land use
plan and you have to then look at your

882
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:51,920
land use plan and say whether that would
be appropriate to reszone that property

883
01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:57,679
if it is something else. now.
So, I mean, I don't think it just opens

884
01:09:54,320 --> 01:10:03,040
you, when you say it's industrial, it's
not opening up all of your egg land.

885
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:09,280
It's got to fit within an industrial
land use under your master plan. So,

886
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:12,880
would that area be industrial for your
It's not spot zoning. You're not just

887
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:17,920
going to throw industrial here and throw
industrial there. That's spot zoning.

888
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:23,440
That's unlawful. Well, so was the master
plan future land use was industrial? I

889
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:27,199
» I have not studied their their
situation.

890
01:10:25,199 --> 01:10:32,320
Um I just know that their lawsuit
claimed exclusionary zoning and then

891
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:36,920
they determined to settle the matter
rather than face possible damages.

892
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:45,440
Are there any of the data centers that
you know of in Michigan or anywhere that

893
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:51,280
have done something for the residents to
uh encourage them to want them there?

894
01:10:47,679 --> 01:10:59,280
Like like the um Thomas Township dump,
they they give everybody within a mile

895
01:10:54,719 --> 01:11:03,760
radius um lifetime no property taxes.
They pay all the property taxes for the

896
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:08,239
lifetime of those residents. Well, I'm
sure if you open the door up to them

897
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:11,600
offering community benefits, they will
provide you all sorts of community

898
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:15,120
benefits. When you're talking about
facilities that cost, you know, $20

899
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:19,520
billion,
they can come in and offer the

900
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:23,280
community. Neighboring property owners,
they can do, you know, things that

901
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:28,080
protect their land value, like if you
they'll value it before they're there

902
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:31,600
and then after, and if it doesn't sell
for what it was worth, then they pay you

903
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:35,920
the difference, you know, things like
that. or pay you double the amount or

904
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:42,640
whatever it might be. There's all sorts
of things they can do. Uh I if you're

905
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:46,960
open to those thing to to having them,
they will offer you all sorts of

906
01:11:44,159 --> 01:11:51,679
benefits um to get their foot in the
door.

907
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:56,000
But with with the
the unique situation we're in here with

908
01:11:54,159 --> 01:12:00,719
Marshall Township and the city marshall
and the 425s

909
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:06,239
um
I'm afraid [clears throat] we would lose

910
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:13,679
the connection or the control um because
that that property is going to be a

911
01:12:10,480 --> 01:12:18,159
probably a 425 property and we will have
no say in it. And that's that's a huge

912
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:22,080
issue with your joint planning
commission and what does how does it

913
01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:26,239
function? What does it do? I mean that
is in front of the Supreme Court now.

914
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:30,960
You know issues regarding your joint
planning commission. The township has a

915
01:12:28,480 --> 01:12:37,520
a brief an amikas brief we filed in that
case. Uh but um it's a huge issue as to

916
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:40,960
what the JPC does because once the
property is in a 425, it's under the

917
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:46,080
jurisdiction of the joint planning
commission which would then should

918
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:51,280
review the site plan and you know what
ordinance terms are in place. All those

919
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:57,440
things are all a little uncertain uh
based upon the current documentation.

920
01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:01,520
So that is definitely a concern of what
would happen if it were on a 425

921
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:04,400
property.
Commissioner,

922
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:09,760
» I want to go back to the beginning of
your presentation. You know, I've had

923
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:12,960
problem with this since it started
coming out from the president and the

924
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:17,760
governor. [snorts]
Demonstrated need

925
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:26,920
what, and I'll ask Representative Carr
to his opinion also. What is the working

926
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,920
definition of a demonstrated need?

927
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:32,960
other than somebody just saying we need
it.

928
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:37,679
» Well, it is um other than it's not just
somebody saying that we need it. It's

929
01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:41,920
both our federal government saying that
we need it and our state government

930
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:48,960
saying that we need it. Not individuals,
but you know, through legislation,

931
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:53,199
through executive orders. Um and so
that's the hurdle. you know, it's you

932
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:59,679
you just can't prohibit
>> I'm looking for for the references that

933
01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:06,560
they're using to back up.
>> You could try to make those arguments in

934
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:12,159
court, but you know, um
that you would have to try to, you know,

935
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:15,840
to fight that issue of a demonstrated
need, you know. So,

936
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:20,239
» find out what is the definition. What
are they using besides just saying those

937
01:14:17,679 --> 01:14:24,080
two words? I can certainly at a future
meeting I can come back and tell you,

938
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:28,159
you know, I can go look it up and tell
you the legal definition of a

939
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:33,040
demonstrated need, you know, and and
what case law has told us about it,

940
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:34,480
» but how far back it goes or anything
like that.

941
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:38,960
» Thank you, Lynn.
>> Oh, thanks. But, you know, thank you.

942
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:44,239
Uh, but for a demonstrated need, you
know, in general, you know, there's case

943
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:49,679
law on exclusionary zoning. Um it's just
whether or not the demonstrated need uh

944
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:56,960
you know for this use obviously Selen
Township looked at that issue and

945
01:14:51,600 --> 01:15:00,360
thought we're cooked here and settled
represent car.

946
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:05,199
» Yeah I'll just try to make their
arguments for them not mine. Uh the

947
01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:09,760
president could say there's a
demonstrated need because we need to

948
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:13,600
beat China whether economically or more
important militaristically. might make

949
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:18,960
those types of arguments. The governor
might say that there's a demonstrated

950
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:23,679
need because we need to enhance and have
a more robust economy. Things of that

951
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:27,760
nature. Uh as I was speaking earlier
while I'm here in terms of moratorum

952
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:32,960
andor prohibition concepts, I'm speaking
more from the state level. Um the reason

953
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:36,080
for a moratorum from my thought from a
state level would be to give the locals

954
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:39,840
time to figure out how [clears throat]
do we need to assess our local efforts

955
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:44,480
and what ordinances we might put into
place. I don't think that there's a need

956
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:49,280
for moratorum for me to get to the point
of knowing that it is an existential

957
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:53,040
threat to humanity. And to that point
it's the opposite of a demonstrated

958
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:59,120
need. It's a demonstrated need that we
need to not have them is my perspective.

959
01:15:56,239 --> 01:16:03,520
But that's not a local issue. That's
more state federal concepts. You're

960
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:07,040
doing a good job speaking from a local
perspective. So, thank you.

961
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:09,840
» Thanks.
>> Appreciate it.

962
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:12,239
» Any other questions for Rob before he
moves on?

963
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:15,679
» Okay.
>> All right.

964
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:21,440
» So, the the next issue is battery energy
storage and it's a totally different a

965
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:26,080
totally different issue because
data centers are just under our zoning

966
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:32,400
ordinance. So we can regulate do you
know super restrict potentially prohibit

967
01:16:29,679 --> 01:16:38,159
you know but we have to do it through
our zoning ordinance. Uh with regard to

968
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:42,400
battery storage systems uh that's a
totally different issue because that

969
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:48,400
falls under act 233.
And so with that we're basically

970
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:54,159
preempted uh and allows the developer of
certain size utility scale projects,

971
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:59,920
solar projects, wind projects, battery
storage projects, uh 50 megawatts or

972
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:05,600
more solar, uh 50 megawatts or more
battery, 50 or 100 megawatts or more

973
01:17:02,719 --> 01:17:09,520
wind. They can just bypass our local
zoning ordinance, ignore it, go to the

974
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:16,159
state and ask for permission from the
MPSC if they choose. Um there is one

975
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:24,640
exception in there. It's called a CRO.
Um and the CRO, which is a uh

976
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:26,640
compatible renewable energy ordinance,
you can do locally and force

977
01:17:25,968 --> 01:17:31,280
[cough and clears throat] them to come
to you locally, but it has such weak

978
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:37,280
standards that we would never recommend
that you adopt a CRO. They're just the

979
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:42,320
basebased standards in the statute. Uh
and um they don't protect the it would

980
01:17:40,480 --> 01:17:48,159
not protect the township at all to do.
So we would not ever recommend the CRO.

981
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:52,480
There's there's three ways that it can
basically move forward one of these

982
01:17:49,679 --> 01:17:59,920
projects. And oh I will say I said
there's three types. There's wind,

983
01:17:54,800 --> 01:18:04,960
solar, and battery. Now um the MPSC made
rules regarding implementation of act

984
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:10,080
233. And in there they invented a fourth
kind. And the fourth [clears throat]

985
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:17,040
kind of uh renewable energy project is a
hybrid. So they said, "Oh, well it's 50

986
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:22,080
megawatts wind, 100 megawws uh or 100
megawatts of wind or 50 megawatts solar,

987
01:18:20,239 --> 01:18:29,600
but we'll allow you to combine them."
So, like if you have uh 25 megawatts of

988
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:36,000
solar and 75 megawatts of wind, even
though neither one is enough to qualify

989
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:41,760
to uh preempt local zoning, we'll allow
you to do a hybrid project and put it

990
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:45,360
together and preempt zoning. Now, that's
being fought in the Michigan Supreme

991
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:50,000
Court. Uh
we have a brief in the Michigan Supreme

992
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:54,159
Court, too, arguing against the MPSC's
rules. That's one of the things that

993
01:18:51,679 --> 01:18:58,719
we're arguing against uh is this hybrid
concept that they put forward. Uh the

994
01:18:56,480 --> 01:19:03,840
court of appeals upheld that decision
and so we're asking the Supreme Court

995
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:09,920
for leave to uh basically say you that
MPSC just kind of invented a new type of

996
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:13,600
project uh to preempt us.
But with these projects then that you

997
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:18,880
can either they can go either entirely
through the state and just go to the

998
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:22,880
MPSC. There's a whole process. We can
intervene into that process and object,

999
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:28,480
but ultimately at the end of the day,
the MPSC will decide whether or not that

1000
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:32,719
project gets approved. Then you have
CRO, which is the compatible renewable

1001
01:19:30,719 --> 01:19:37,280
energy ordinance that you we can force
them. They kind of threw that out as a

1002
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:43,440
bone in the 11th hour of the legislation
to try to get some people convinced to

1003
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:48,800
sign on to it, I think. And so they uh
proposed this creole, but it really is

1004
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:52,080
ineffective. It would not protect the
township at all. You might as well send

1005
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:56,080
them to the state and fight with them at
the state level.

1006
01:19:54,159 --> 01:20:01,280
And then the third category is called a
workable ordinance, which is just you

1007
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:05,360
try to be as restrictive as you can in
your ordinance without being so

1008
01:20:03,679 --> 01:20:10,640
restrictive that they just go to the
state. So that's kind of the a workable

1009
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:14,400
ordinance u because you can put all
these restrictions on much you can put a

1010
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:19,840
lot more restrictions than the state law
has and developers will tend to want to

1011
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:22,880
work with you as a local community but
if it's too restrictive they're just

1012
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:25,840
going to go straight to the state. So,
some communities are just like, well,

1013
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:30,320
just send them send them to the state on
it and we'll fight with them, you know,

1014
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:34,960
at the MPSC. Uh, they have to put up
some intervenor funds to pay the

1015
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:38,560
township uh to fight with them, which,
you know, so some communities do that.

1016
01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:42,719
Other communities look at workable
ordinances where they will develop

1017
01:20:41,199 --> 01:20:47,280
stringent provisions within their
ordinance and uh you know

1018
01:20:45,745 --> 01:20:50,880
[clears throat] and and enforce it
locally and try to get them to come

1019
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:56,320
through locally preserving the power
that your planning commission to review

1020
01:20:52,480 --> 01:21:01,360
the site plan special land use and and
do it through a local level rather than

1021
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:06,560
trusting the MPSC to ultimately handle
the project.

1022
01:21:03,679 --> 01:21:09,920
So you still have uh I I'll just note a
couple things. You still have smaller

1023
01:21:08,159 --> 01:21:15,040
scale utility projects. So things that
fall under those levels. Uh so if it's

1024
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:22,800
less than 50 megawatts of solar, maybe
it's a 4 megawatt project or uh you know

1025
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:27,600
a 25 megawatt battery project. Those
fall under the state standard, but they

1026
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:32,000
would fall then under your ordinance.
Now then do we have anything in our

1027
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:35,679
ordinance to regulate that? you know we
have to look at those things. So do we

1028
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:39,460
have anything that would regulate
battery energy storage systems are

1029
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:42,960
smaller than utility scale. So as
[clears throat] we look at battery

1030
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:47,440
energy storage systems and those you
know as expressed you know those will

1031
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:51,280
cook into the grid they're intended to
kind of even out the power flow so you

1032
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:55,199
can load them up with the energy and
then at other times when you're not

1033
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:59,520
producing the energy it can put the
energy out into the grid. And we're

1034
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:02,880
going to see a lot more of these battery
energy storage projects [clears throat]

1035
01:22:00,719 --> 01:22:08,239
throughout the state. They're very
expensive projects. I mean, they don't

1036
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:16,639
use as much land as, you know, say
solar, wind. They can be put on 20, 40

1037
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:22,159
acres. Um, and uh very expensive uh uh
facilities. Um there's one proposed

1038
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:29,199
right now uh in one of our townships.
It's about $500 million project for 400

1039
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:33,920
megawatts of battery storage. And so
they determined in that township to

1040
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:38,080
regulate it locally rather than uh send
them to the state. So they have what's

1041
01:22:36,239 --> 01:22:42,800
called the workable ordinance. But you
know in that case you can still regulate

1042
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:48,320
smaller but in what they decided is no
you either go with a large utility scale

1043
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:53,920
project 50 megawatts or more or not at
all rather than dotting the you know the

1044
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:57,280
the township with small little projects.
It's like either you're going to do a

1045
01:22:55,199 --> 01:23:02,080
project and then we're going to say once
you do one project you're done. we're

1046
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:05,760
done with it because when you go to the
state part of it what the state will

1047
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:11,840
look at the MTSC have you done your
share of support for renewable energies.

1048
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:15,920
So our position kind of is like okay
well if we have a project here and we

1049
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:21,040
allow just this one project then we're
going to say no more and then you got to

1050
01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:27,120
go to the state uh if you want something
more and then we would argue that we've

1051
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:29,840
done our share of it right. So, you
know, there's different ways to look at

1052
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:35,199
it with like battery energy storage. Do
you just say like it's got to be 50

1053
01:23:31,679 --> 01:23:40,000
megawatts or more or it's got to be
uh ancillary to a permitted use? So,

1054
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:44,080
like a lot of businesses might use a
battery storage backup on their site for

1055
01:23:42,719 --> 01:23:46,960
their business. So, that's a little
different. That's ancillary battery

1056
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:51,679
storage. Kind of what we're talking
about is the utility scale, this 50

1057
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:57,840
megawatts or more. But also, we had to
think about smaller battery storage too.

1058
01:23:55,199 --> 01:24:02,480
Um, and how we regulate that. Like I
said, in the one township, uh, what we

1059
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:07,120
did is we just said, "Okay, it's got to
be more than this many megawws."

1060
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:11,600
And then we're not allowing anything
more. It's like, "That's it." And then

1061
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:16,880
we've done what we've done. Um, and
we're not going to have about a bunch of

1062
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:20,560
smaller 25 megawatt or 10 megawatt here,
there, and everywhere spread out through

1063
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:24,560
the township or solar, you know, a solar
project here, solar project there, a

1064
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:28,880
whole bunch of little solar projects.
same kind of concept that you either

1065
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:33,920
allow one of the ones that you're
preempted on and you allow for it and

1066
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:38,679
then you say no more and then you take
your fight to the MPSC after that.

1067
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:46,560
Um
so uh you know with battery I don't know

1068
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:51,040
if you have
I think the township board has put a

1069
01:24:48,239 --> 01:24:55,120
moratorium in on battery. Uh if you're
going to do a moratorum complete, then

1070
01:24:53,440 --> 01:25:00,400
the planning commission will also need
to look at that. But uh when we talk

1071
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:03,840
about our moratorium ordinance, we
actually put into the moratorum

1072
01:25:02,239 --> 01:25:08,639
ordinance that we're going to look at
later a provision that allows the

1073
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:13,040
planning commission to adopt or
recommend moratoriums. So it allows you

1074
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:17,120
to be more nimble about how you do it.
You're not going to have to do a new

1075
01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:20,719
ordinance every time you want to. If a
new issue comes up that you think you

1076
01:25:18,639 --> 01:25:25,040
need to impose a moratorum on, you can
just recommend it to the township board

1077
01:25:22,639 --> 01:25:29,600
rather than having to develop a
ordinance, public hearing, send it to

1078
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:32,880
the county, wait for the county to come
back, send it to the township board, and

1079
01:25:31,199 --> 01:25:37,040
then have the township board act on it.
You could just be more nimble and just

1080
01:25:34,639 --> 01:25:40,320
act on it at a meeting and say, "We
recommend a moratorium on a certain

1081
01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:44,800
subject matter and send it to the
township." Rod, can we talk about that

1082
01:25:42,719 --> 01:25:47,600
maybe within the public hearing so we
can move into that? Yeah. Is that okay

1083
01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:50,080
to do that? Just to make sure we all
understand what it is that we're doing

1084
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:53,600
related to that,
>> right? Yeah, I will. I'll address that.

1085
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:59,520
Yeah. But that's
>> any comments on best right now so we can

1086
01:25:56,239 --> 01:26:05,120
move on. No. So, you might as well just
stay right up there. Um the go ahead and

1087
01:26:02,719 --> 01:26:08,320
um move into the public hearings. So,
this is a Oh, go ahead.

1088
01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:11,120
» Well, can I just So, let me just tell
you some of the terrible standards that

1089
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:15,679
» Oh, I'm sorry. Yes.
>> Okay. And then I can move on. But just

1090
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:21,120
in the in the state law for battery
storage, it has really bad standards.

1091
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:25,679
That's why the Creole is totally not an
acceptable thing. The setbacks for

1092
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:30,480
battery storage are 300 ft from a
non-participating occupied dwelling. So

1093
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:36,400
it only So you can have all this these
huge battery systems and they the

1094
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:40,639
setback under state law is 300 ft from
your dwelling wall.

1095
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:45,920
not [clears throat] your property, but
your actual dwelling. So, that's kind of

1096
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:51,440
crazy. 50 feet from a road, 50 feet from
the sheared uh property lines. So,

1097
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:59,120
doesn't have to be far from the property
line. Noise is 55 dBA measured to the

1098
01:26:55,760 --> 01:27:04,159
nearest dwelling, not you know, not your
property line, but the your house

1099
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:09,199
itself. So again, we think, you know,
any kind of standard should be to your

1100
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:14,000
property line, not not your home itself.
You should be able to use your entire

1101
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:19,679
property without noise or other
nuisances stemming from it. Uh so those

1102
01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:24,480
are very weak standards. Um
yeah, I mean just uh

1103
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:28,159
you know, 300 feet is kind of a
ridiculous standard. In the one

1104
01:27:25,679 --> 01:27:33,600
township, what we did is we required
battery energy storage to be 2,000 ft

1105
01:27:30,719 --> 01:27:37,199
from any sensitive land use. So, they
want they first wanted to build it uh

1106
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:40,400
next to a school and we're like, "No,
you're not going to build it next to the

1107
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:45,120
school." And they passed the ordinance
that said it had to be 2,000. So, not

1108
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:50,000
just 300 ft to the nearest, but 2,000 ft
away from sensitive land uses. So,

1109
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:54,960
anything where nursing homes, schools,
things of that sort push it way away.

1110
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:58,080
Um, but you know, compared to those
setbacks, I just wanted to point that

1111
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:03,440
out that they're really weak standards
in the state law. That's why a lot of

1112
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:07,679
townships do look at doing their own
uh workable ordinance. So, you can

1113
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:11,199
really beef up your standards. Uh,
because if they go to the state, that's

1114
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:14,639
the standard that they have to meet, you
know, but if you do a workable, you can

1115
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:18,239
push those things back, like I said,
2,000 ft away from sensitive uses,

1116
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:23,600
whatever. You can just be a lot more
stringent.

1117
01:28:20,159 --> 01:28:26,600
» Thank you. questions.
>> Okay.

1118
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:34,480
» So, if we can u move on commissioners to
um thank you Rob to the public hearing.

1119
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:43,280
Our first public hearing is the zoning
ordinance text amendment article 18 and

1120
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:47,840
the data center moratorum. Um this was
uh noticed in the newspaper. And with

1121
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:51,000
that um is there a motion to open the
public hearing?

1122
01:28:51,840 --> 01:29:00,719
So move. Thank you.
>> There's a motion by Commissioner um Rig,

1123
01:28:58,480 --> 01:29:04,159
seconded by Commissioner Buller to open
the public hearing. All those in favor

1124
01:29:02,639 --> 01:29:07,600
signify by saying I.
>> I.

1125
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:14,159
» All those opposed, same sign. Motion
carries. Um so Rob, um this this

1126
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:20,320
commission is here. Um, as I think
you've mentioned, the township board um

1127
01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:25,840
did pass um a moratorum
and in it within it it said, and I'm

1128
01:29:23,199 --> 01:29:30,639
just taking out one excerpt. I said, "Be
it further resolved that the purpose of

1129
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:34,560
ordinance number 2026-01
and the township board of trustees

1130
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:39,280
direction to the planning commission is
to prepare a temporary moratorium zoning

1131
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:42,480
ordinance text amendment
um and is to preserve the status quo

1132
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:47,440
while the township planning commission
researches data centers and bests as a

1133
01:29:45,199 --> 01:29:52,639
land use within the township and submits
a recommendation to the township board

1134
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:57,600
for consideration public hearing. So,
um, that leads us to the document that

1135
01:29:54,800 --> 01:30:03,440
we have, um, in front of us that you
helped craft for us. Um, and maybe you

1136
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:05,280
can just share what we're doing and
>> Yes.

1137
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:10,560
» the difference between what the township
>> Yeah, I will. Yeah. So, there's to to

1138
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:14,400
have a effective moratorum, you have to
do two types of ordinances and not by

1139
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:18,080
resolution. You can't just Some
communities have adopted moratorum

1140
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:20,960
resolution. They're in court right now
over on the east side of the state

1141
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:26,000
because they tried to block it with a
resolution. Case law tells us that you

1142
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:29,679
have to do and this comes from federal
case law um that you have to do two

1143
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:34,880
ordinances. You do a police power
ordinance and you have to also do a

1144
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:39,199
zoning ordinance moratorum. So that's
why the township board has done their

1145
01:30:36,639 --> 01:30:43,679
part of it with a police power ordinance
moratorum.

1146
01:30:40,719 --> 01:30:49,040
And then this is the sec [clears throat]
this is the second part of it. So you

1147
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:54,560
have to do the zoning moratorum also to
be properly protected and have uh

1148
01:30:51,760 --> 01:31:00,000
moratorium protections. So this is the
second part of it and what this does is

1149
01:30:57,440 --> 01:31:03,520
uh it would uh and that what you do
tonight is a recommendation to the

1150
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:08,800
township board. So this is part of your
zoning ordinance. It's a moratorum of

1151
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:12,719
your zoning provisions and uh this
ordinance if you pass it would be a

1152
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:16,960
recommendation of the board for them to
pass it. It would have to go to the

1153
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:21,280
county planning commission for their
recommendation. I mean, it's just purely

1154
01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:24,800
recommendation from the county.
>> Advisory, [clears throat] right?

1155
01:31:22,159 --> 01:31:29,280
» Yeah. Completely advisory. Uh and then
it goes to the board for uh their final

1156
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:32,719
determination.
And so what this will do is, you know,

1157
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:36,000
I'll just read some of the provisions.
The Township Board of Marshall Township

1158
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:40,480
determines that the approval of data
centers may result in or produce

1159
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:44,159
negative impacts on permitted land uses
and development and may harm the public

1160
01:31:42,159 --> 01:31:48,560
health, safety, and general welfare of
property owners and residents of the

1161
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:52,320
township. Uh the township board is aware
of significant public health, safety,

1162
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:56,960
and welfare concerns raised by the
public about [snorts] the impacts of

1163
01:31:54,159 --> 01:32:00,960
data centers. Uh the township has a
legitimate public purpose in assessing

1164
01:31:58,719 --> 01:32:04,639
the regulation of the an establishment
and use of data centers within the

1165
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:09,520
township to ensure that data centers do
not interfere with other land uses

1166
01:32:07,199 --> 01:32:13,679
substantial negative impacts on the
environment, public health and safety.

1167
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:17,040
Uh the township board finds that
adopting a temporary moratorium is

1168
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:22,159
reasonable and necessary for among other
reasons the following. Michigan courts

1169
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:27,679
have recognized moratoriums as a
legitimate tool to preserve status quo

1170
01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:32,560
while forming formulating and uh a
development strategy.

1171
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:37,679
Um
and uh I I'll note that it has to be it

1172
01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:42,960
can't be just a kind of a permanent
moratorium in place. If we do that uh we

1173
01:32:40,639 --> 01:32:48,560
would have a problem with our zoning.
Again it's why it's temporary but it can

1174
01:32:45,679 --> 01:32:53,600
be extended long. It's for one year the
moratorum but it could be extended

1175
01:32:50,239 --> 01:32:58,719
longer if need be. Uh but you have to
have a

1176
01:32:56,320 --> 01:33:04,000
um an end date which could be extended.
So it has to be temporary or a court

1177
01:33:00,719 --> 01:33:08,960
would most likely strike that down.
And so um the township board accordingly

1178
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:12,639
determines that it's desirable in the
public uh interest for the reason set

1179
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:18,320
forth above that the board adopt a
temporary moratorium for data centers.

1180
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:21,520
And then what we have in here is the
actual provisions that we're going to

1181
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:26,960
put into your ordinance. So this
ordinance does two things. It creates a

1182
01:33:24,159 --> 01:33:30,800
data center moratorum, but it also adds
to your zoning ordinance, article 14.

1183
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:35,760
It's going to add a whole new section
that allows the planning commission to

1184
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:40,719
recommend moratoriums. So you don't have
to go through the whole planning uh

1185
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:44,000
commission ordinance process. You can
just make the recommendation. It's going

1186
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:47,520
to make you more nimble. as things come
up in the future, you'll be able to

1187
01:33:45,440 --> 01:33:52,800
just, you know, throw it into a
moratorum if need be and the board then

1188
01:33:50,159 --> 01:33:55,920
can adopt that moratorum and it's within
our ordinance. It's not in our ordinance

1189
01:33:54,400 --> 01:34:02,400
currently. That's why we have to go
through this whole process to do that.

1190
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:05,600
And so um what it will allow is then the
board uh the planning commission to

1191
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:11,760
recommend a moratorium, the board to
adopt one. And then going back to this

1192
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:16,000
data center specific moratorum uh in
section three, a temporary moratorium

1193
01:34:13,440 --> 01:34:20,800
iso imposed upon the acceptance and or
processing of any applications for data

1194
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:26,320
centers. So there would be no data
centers coming uh forward to the

1195
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:31,840
township during this time.
Uh the term of it is for one year. Um

1196
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:37,360
and then [clears throat] before the uh
before it expires, the township can uh

1197
01:34:34,159 --> 01:34:43,600
by resolution allow for additional time
uh for the moratorum. And so this would

1198
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:49,120
be the moratorium for data centers. We
talked about best. I don't think this

1199
01:34:46,239 --> 01:34:53,760
board has ever adopted a best moratorum,
>> but I think the township board did their

1200
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:58,480
police power moratorium part of it. So
once this ordinance is in effect, you

1201
01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:03,280
can just recommend the best moratorum to
the township board and it can go into

1202
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:07,520
effect. So that will be one of the
benefits of this ordinance is that it'll

1203
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:12,159
be put into our zoning that you can just
do the recommendation. So you'll just be

1204
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:16,560
able to recommend a best moratorum
for zoning and then the township board

1205
01:35:14,239 --> 01:35:21,600
can adopt that.
>> Okay.

1206
01:35:18,639 --> 01:35:25,679
» All right. Um before we get into um
Thank you, Rob. [clears throat]

1207
01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:29,600
Um commissioners discussion and action.
Are there any public comments related to

1208
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:34,080
the public hearing for the zoning
ordinance text amendment and Dana center

1209
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:38,360
moratorum?
Please feel free to come up to the

1210
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:38,360
podium.

1211
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:53,440
reached Sclingler with some city of
Marshall

1212
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:57,360
addressing these effects of data
centers. A lot of them have been

1213
01:35:55,280 --> 01:36:01,520
mentioned, but there are some that
haven't been mentioned. I want to

1214
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:06,560
encourage you to address these in your
ordinances coming up. One of them is

1215
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:11,760
ambient warming. A lot of these data
centers with cooling towers, with other

1216
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:16,639
roof mounted equipment warm up the
surrounding atmosphere as much as five

1217
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:20,880
to six degrees. This could be true of
battery and energy storage systems also

1218
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:25,679
probably not as much but that's
something you want to look into

1219
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:31,760
electromagnetic fields induced. That's
where your stray voltage comes in. You

1220
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:37,440
got also get induced magnetic fields on
other equipment that's nearby. I think

1221
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:43,760
that's something you need to look at.
Uh the closed loop cooling is great but

1222
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:49,199
those systems have added chemicals. They
have biocides, they have antifreeze, and

1223
01:36:46,639 --> 01:36:54,000
they have uh corrosion inhibitors in
them. Those systems need to be emptied

1224
01:36:51,360 --> 01:37:00,000
and cleaned periodically, every month,
every quarter or something. Most waste

1225
01:36:57,679 --> 01:37:04,719
treatment plants cannot handle those.
So, you should have a pre-treatment

1226
01:37:02,159 --> 01:37:10,719
requirement in your ordinances that that
takes care of all that before it goes

1227
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:15,520
into any waste treatment system.
You mentioned vibration, low frequency

1228
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:20,960
vibration. That is very important. Fire
risk. These data centers have a lot of

1229
01:37:18,639 --> 01:37:27,760
lithium ion batteries in them. There is
a very high increase in fire risk. That

1230
01:37:24,719 --> 01:37:31,199
should be brought into your ordinance. I
know they have fire suppression systems,

1231
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:37,199
but you might want to look into what
ones they actually have and make sure

1232
01:37:33,440 --> 01:37:40,560
they are tested on a regular basis so
they do work.

1233
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:50,080
uh NDAs
uh might want to be careful. The city of

1234
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:55,600
Marshall has gone into some uh
agreements that have uh confident

1235
01:37:52,639 --> 01:38:00,800
confidentiality clauses and that's kind
of like a group NDA because it covered

1236
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:07,320
the LDFA and its agents which is the
city. So they really had a NDA as a

1237
01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:07,320
committee.

1238
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:14,960
there's lots of industrial land on in
the township.

1239
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:19,920
You've got it on your uh land use map
for the future. So, there's a definite

1240
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:25,199
need that you regulate
the these

1241
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:28,639
uh battery plants and data centers
because you're you've got exposure

1242
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:34,719
already.
I would also encourage you

1243
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:40,719
for any developer
that they would have a post a bond

1244
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:44,080
required for cleanup when they're done.
They just don't walk away and leave you

1245
01:38:42,159 --> 01:38:48,000
a mess.
That they were required to pay their own

1246
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:52,000
way for everything for the your
township's costs. Everything the

1247
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:57,920
township related to that should be
reimbursed by these developers.

1248
01:38:55,440 --> 01:39:02,719
I would strongly encourage you, I don't
know if you can put this in an ordinance

1249
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:08,159
not, but don't allow any tax exemptions.
The Seline developers going for uh the

1250
01:39:06,159 --> 01:39:13,040
industrial
exemption facilities exemption, which is

1251
01:39:10,639 --> 01:39:18,800
50% of their tax, that's millions of
dollars. That it's that's the only

1252
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:22,320
positive thing is the tax revenue that's
coming from them. And so if you give

1253
01:39:20,639 --> 01:39:28,639
half of it away, you're really
restricting yourself.

1254
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:33,840
Or the other thing is make that whatever
it's payment of Lugo taxes or your

1255
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:37,600
property taxes is a non-dereasing. It's
going to be constant throughout the life

1256
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:41,920
of that facility. Normally it'll be
going down as depreciation comes into

1257
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:47,280
account. Get them to say it's going to
be this much every year and stick with

1258
01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:51,840
it. [snorts]
See

1259
01:39:50,239 --> 01:39:56,159
so I think those are pretty much the
points. Those are points that we've

1260
01:39:54,000 --> 01:40:00,400
tried to put into our petition,
initiative petition, and we hope to hold

1261
01:39:58,719 --> 01:40:02,560
the city to that and I think those are
good points for the township also.

1262
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:07,199
» Thank you, Regent.
>> Thank you.

1263
01:40:04,159 --> 01:40:12,119
» Anyone else for public comment?
Okay. See, Gary,

1264
01:40:15,119 --> 01:40:20,639
» I always need to check to see if anybody
else wants to talk,

1265
01:40:18,864 --> 01:40:26,719
[clears throat] but
uh you know, like Regis was saying,

1266
01:40:24,719 --> 01:40:35,040
you know, no amount of regulation stops
a runaway lithium battery fire.

1267
01:40:31,199 --> 01:40:45,040
uh and data centers and the best
facilities uh have all uh had episodes

1268
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:53,920
of experiencing the runaway uh uh
battery fires and uh you know Marshall

1269
01:40:49,679 --> 01:40:58,800
is downwind from Marshall Township.
But uh when it comes to the uh

1270
01:40:56,080 --> 01:41:04,560
exclusionary zoning issue,
uh the attorney did point out uh one of

1271
01:41:01,440 --> 01:41:09,360
the exemptions where uh there would be
no suitable location uh within the m

1272
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:14,960
municipality.
But there's also another exemption and

1273
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:20,239
it has to deal with uh if its use is
unlawful.

1274
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:29,920
Now, it just so happens in the
uh zoning system construct

1275
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:35,600
u all land use is unlawful unless it is
permitted.

1276
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:42,239
So, by its very nature, without a permit
being issued, a data center is

1277
01:41:38,719 --> 01:41:46,639
inherently unlawful.
uh you might not have to do anything and

1278
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:53,199
just just declare, you know, they're
unlawful unless we permit it.

1279
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:57,440
But uh
the problem with the moratorum

1280
01:41:55,760 --> 01:42:02,639
again, you're just kicking the can down
the road.

1281
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:08,080
uh the information about data centers,
the uh you know the destructive effect

1282
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:15,600
effects of data centers
uh is conclusive and uh decisive.

1283
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:21,239
Uh you can't change the laws of physics
and chemistry.

1284
01:42:18,239 --> 01:42:21,239
um

1285
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:30,080
and
you know trying to do impossible things

1286
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:35,600
by trying to uh regulate the
dispersion of low frequency vibration.

1287
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:39,920
You can't do that because the low
frequency vibration

1288
01:42:37,679 --> 01:42:44,800
even though it's outside of the range of
audibility

1289
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:50,320
uh it goes through everything. It goes
through matter. It goes through the

1290
01:42:46,159 --> 01:42:54,560
ground. Uh, and as an example, over in
Marshall where they're planning on

1291
01:42:52,000 --> 01:43:00,400
putting it putting the data center there
at the uh, Brooks Nature Center, there

1292
01:42:57,199 --> 01:43:06,239
are two elementary schools
uh, within the two-mile low frequency

1293
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:14,480
radius. And it has been conclusively
proven that constant exposure to young

1294
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:20,320
children of these uh low frequency
vibrations

1295
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:25,040
creates permanent destructive effects on
the development of the nervous systems.

1296
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:31,360
So
what's the price of

1297
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:34,360
what is actually a matter of convenience
of

1298
01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:43,226
being able to get you know a few
millisec get a result a search engine

1299
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:48,800
result a few milliseconds faster.
[clears throat]

1300
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:54,719
Uh but nobody's really addressing the
real nefarious ulterior motives of the

1301
01:43:51,920 --> 01:44:02,639
data centers and that huge amount of
computing capacity uh is for the purpose

1302
01:43:58,400 --> 01:44:09,040
of creating an omni surveillance state
that is similar to the uh social credit

1303
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:15,920
system that they have over in uh
communist China.

1304
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:20,400
and uh you know
being told that you know when it comes

1305
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:25,119
to data centers you're pretty much in a
bus that has no brakes and the steering

1306
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:30,560
wheel's gone and you're heading towards
the cliff.

1307
01:44:27,112 --> 01:44:36,800
[clears throat] But uh just because
the government says you need something,

1308
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:42,000
do you have to knuckle under to that
kind of pressure? This is still America.

1309
01:44:39,679 --> 01:44:47,600
The government does not control what we
need. The government has to be put back

1310
01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:52,002
in its place and we tell government what
to do and they don't tell us what we

1311
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:54,022
need or have to use.
[clears throat and cough]

1312
01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:04,719
The whole data center issue is
bringing a lot of issues, other issues,

1313
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:10,560
peripheral issues to a head about our
basic freedom, about our

1314
01:45:07,440 --> 01:45:19,199
uh what it is to be an American
and uh we should not have to uh knuckle

1315
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:23,199
under to an Orwellian dysfunctional
state.

1316
01:45:21,199 --> 01:45:26,880
And anybody comes to the podium just do
keep your comments to the moratorum

1317
01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:34,239
itself. That's what the public hearing
is for. So thank you. Thank you Barry.

1318
01:45:30,480 --> 01:45:38,000
Good afternoon Julie Bryant. Sorry. Um I
think Reed just mentioned this. I'll

1319
01:45:36,159 --> 01:45:44,159
stay back. I think Reed just mentioned
this, but I've seen some articles in

1320
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:50,239
regards to um things to do for the
moratorum and it was highly suggested

1321
01:45:48,239 --> 01:45:57,199
and I like I said I think Regis uh
covered this but um in case they would

1322
01:45:54,400 --> 01:46:03,760
come in and then they would decide to
leave to make them highly responsible,

1323
01:46:00,239 --> 01:46:09,760
financially responsible to return the
property to the you know somewhat what

1324
01:46:06,639 --> 01:46:13,760
shape that it was. Um, you know, that
needs to be right in there, right in the

1325
01:46:11,679 --> 01:46:16,239
beginning. And, um, [clears throat] so I
just wanted to kind of like highlight

1326
01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:21,960
that. So, thank you.
>> Thanks, Julie.

1327
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,960
» Okay. Any other comments?

1328
01:46:27,440 --> 01:46:35,520
» Kelly Isaac.
Um, in favor of a moratorum, give us

1329
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:40,800
time to
investigate more. Um, thank you for your

1330
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:47,840
presentation. Thank you, um,
Representative Carl for being here to

1331
01:46:43,199 --> 01:46:55,920
support the people. We've been, um,
challenged lately. Um, just beware when

1332
01:46:52,159 --> 01:47:01,440
you um, you know, people are seething to
get to that land. Seething to

1333
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:06,800
destroy it and to continue to destroy
the township of Marshall. Hate to say

1334
01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:11,440
it, but that's how I feel.
We've got um, we got a Ford plant that

1335
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:17,920
promised a lot of things and none of
it's been delivered.

1336
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:24,480
Um, very disparaging with that. And it's
not because I live by it. It's because

1337
01:47:21,199 --> 01:47:31,119
I've se I've followed the whole process.
Is it even operational? Because I've got

1338
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:36,960
an article here says it's not um without
permit air permit changes. This is going

1339
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:40,639
to affect the data centers too. You're
going to have people come in and say,

1340
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:43,760
"Oh, the air is not going to you won't
need permitting. We'll we'll just get

1341
01:47:42,239 --> 01:47:48,960
the basic permitting." and then they'll
go back and get the real permitting like

1342
01:47:46,480 --> 01:47:56,159
Ford's doing so they could cook up some
really nice batteries and pollute the

1343
01:47:51,199 --> 01:47:59,040
air and water. So, be very cautious and
I know that you're all in a hard

1344
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:03,040
position. You've got to make the
decisions. I wouldn't want to be on the

1345
01:48:01,119 --> 01:48:06,000
planning board cuz you're going to have
them knocking on your door and they're

1346
01:48:04,639 --> 01:48:11,199
going to be knocking down the door with
money offers and promises of this and

1347
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:16,480
promises of that that never never came
through. Thank you. Any other comments

1348
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:22,360
related to this public hearing on the
moratorum?

1349
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:22,360
» Okay. Oh,

1350
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:30,159
» say thank you for letting me be a part
of the conversation tonight. My wife is

1351
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:33,199
a government school teacher and I have
to say good night to her. So, I'm going

1352
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:36,080
to head out, but thank you, Chair
Johnson, for having me here tonight. And

1353
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:37,679
members of the commission, you all have
a good evening. And you know how to get

1354
01:48:37,199 --> 01:48:38,960
a hold of me?
>> Yes, I do. Thank you.

1355
01:48:38,639 --> 01:48:42,080
» Thank you.
>> Thank you very much for being here.

1356
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:45,440
Appreciate it. And I know this is I know
it's already almost 9:00 everybody. So

1357
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:49,960
thank you for your patience. We have a
hefty agenda ahead of us which we knew.

1358
01:48:51,760 --> 01:49:00,080
» Good evening. Richard Lindseay 15509 17
half mile road at Marshall Township. Um,

1359
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:06,159
in in listening to what the presentation
was, I am interested in the idea of I

1360
01:49:03,679 --> 01:49:10,560
could identify exactly one place in
Marshall Township where a data center or

1361
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:13,600
a best center could go and it's
essentially this land that's right here

1362
01:49:12,159 --> 01:49:17,840
because it's got power and it's got
water and it's got sewer. And so my

1363
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:21,119
question to the and so so I first of all
I support the mortorium. So thank you

1364
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:25,119
for the presentation. I support the
mortorium. But my understanding of the

1365
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:28,080
mortorium is that it's not you can't say
no. And so my question is if you're

1366
01:49:26,639 --> 01:49:32,719
going to designate an area where you
would have one, it seems like the joint

1367
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:38,560
planning commission could work with the
city and develop regulations within

1368
01:49:36,159 --> 01:49:43,440
within this area that address that. And
I would I would encourage that. And to

1369
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:47,520
the extent I'm not saying there would
have to be one [clears throat] there,

1370
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:51,360
but the question is you have to set a
space aside and have appropriate

1371
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:55,199
regulations. And to me, this this area
would make sense for that. and I can't

1372
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:58,480
really imagine any place else in the
township where it would make sense to

1373
01:49:56,480 --> 01:50:04,679
put it. So, my thoughts, thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments. Anyone else

1374
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:04,679
for um this

1375
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:14,719
» and um Marshall Township, uh I just
wanted to say I too support a moratorum.

1376
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:18,639
I think it needs some time to be thought
about. One of the things that hasn't

1377
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:22,080
been mentioned here tonight, and I
suspect it's why at the federal level

1378
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:27,199
and the state level, they're concerned
about this is encryption. Uh quantum

1379
01:50:25,199 --> 01:50:30,960
computers or supercomputers, whatever
you want to call them, but they're on a

1380
01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:35,760
quantum basis. Can break encryption in
seconds. It would take tens of years to

1381
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:40,560
break. So everybody's trying to figure
out how they can [snorts] encrypt my

1382
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:46,480
bank account, your bank account, how
they can keep those safe because they

1383
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:50,320
know that China and North Korea and a
lot of our adversaries are working as

1384
01:50:48,719 --> 01:50:54,719
fast as they can too along with some
very wealthy people in this country who

1385
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:58,800
aren't my best friends either. My best
friends are my neighbors. You guys are

1386
01:50:56,000 --> 01:51:02,480
all my neighbors. Um so I would say
yeah, take some time. Think this

1387
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:07,040
through. make sure you don't do anything
that's going to cost the township a

1388
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:11,040
bunch of money and legal fees. I
appreciate you being here today because

1389
01:51:08,400 --> 01:51:15,119
that's exactly one of my concerns. I'd
like to see taxes go down in this

1390
01:51:12,639 --> 01:51:19,280
township. Um that's not going to happen
if we box oursel into a corner on legal

1391
01:51:17,199 --> 01:51:24,360
feast, but I support the moratorum. I
hope it passes unanimously.

1392
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:24,360
» Thank you, Dan.

1393
01:51:26,971 --> 01:51:28,991
» [clears throat]

1394
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:42,320
» Laura Valentine and I am a lifetime
resident of Marshall.

1395
01:51:37,599 --> 01:51:50,639
I support the moratorum and gosh,
can we have one for every township?

1396
01:51:46,480 --> 01:51:55,760
Couldn't we? Moringo, Seresco, if we
could adopt that same moratorum for each

1397
01:51:53,360 --> 01:52:02,800
of the townships, wouldn't that be more
helpful? And that's just one thought

1398
01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:10,560
that goes through my my mind always.
>> There's another question I have. Sorry.

1399
01:52:06,719 --> 01:52:17,800
Um, is there an emergency evac plan from
Marshall in the event of a battery plant

1400
01:52:13,199 --> 01:52:17,800
fire or a data center fire?

1401
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:22,040
Is there one in place?

1402
01:52:22,719 --> 01:52:26,880
» Hold that thought and we'll address it
and I've got it written down. We can

1403
01:52:25,599 --> 01:52:31,599
address comments.
>> That there's two other points I wanted

1404
01:52:28,719 --> 01:52:36,239
to make. This morning, my parents and I
were listening to the news and we

1405
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:42,159
learned that
this data center surge, they're all

1406
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:47,679
operating, all of these developers are
operating on borrowed money. and they

1407
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:54,159
were talking about the economy, you
know, this the stock market, the

1408
01:52:50,320 --> 01:53:01,520
economy, the the data center bubble.
If that's true,

1409
01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:08,719
that money was it borrowed from us
and are we in agreement with the usage

1410
01:53:05,599 --> 01:53:12,440
of our tax money?
So, um

1411
01:53:13,040 --> 01:53:24,000
the necessary need, the the need of
being necessary and

1412
01:53:21,119 --> 01:53:30,560
you know by the state and federal that I
go back to my state government classes

1413
01:53:26,480 --> 01:53:35,119
in in high school and can we debate that
and

1414
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:40,480
can we debate the fact that it's a
necessary need to me to me I'm thinking

1415
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:47,520
of national security. We're using China
components in new buildings and I think

1416
01:53:44,080 --> 01:53:54,920
that's against one of our
our national security laws. I think it

1417
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:54,920
is.

1418
01:53:58,400 --> 01:54:04,000
» Can anybody refute it?
>> Oh, typically we'll we'll answer those

1419
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:10,080
during the comments. I'm sorry.
>> I'm just those are points I wanted to

1420
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:14,239
make. Anyone else?
Okay, seeing none, do we have a motion

1421
01:54:13,119 --> 01:54:20,080
to [clears throat] close the public
hearing?

1422
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:23,119
» So move sport.
>> I'm not sure what if that was

1423
01:54:21,599 --> 01:54:27,520
Commissioner Buller or Commissioner
Riggs, but we'll go to Steves. Um I will

1424
01:54:25,840 --> 01:54:30,560
say motion by Commissioner Buller,
second by Commissioner Riggs to close

1425
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:32,480
the public hearing. All those in favor
signify by saying I.

1426
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:38,159
» I.
>> All those opposed, same sign. Motion

1427
01:54:34,960 --> 01:54:43,360
carries. This is now our time for uh
commissioner discussion and action.

1428
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:48,639
Um and Rob, I might need your help on
this, but we took an excerpt. That's

1429
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:53,040
what made the agenda so long as well. Um
from the criteria that we normally look

1430
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:59,520
at for text amendments, which we have a
text amendment um as part of the um

1431
01:54:56,880 --> 01:55:03,280
ordinance that we have before us. Should
we go through each one of the criteria

1432
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:09,199
or do we need to handle this differently
as it's coming from us?

1433
01:55:06,639 --> 01:55:13,599
No, you should go through. Okay.
>> All right. Um, just a couple items from

1434
01:55:11,679 --> 01:55:18,400
the uh that I want to make comments on
the emergency evacuation.

1435
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:21,280
I don't know if anybody here knows that.
I know the Michigan Department of

1436
01:55:19,599 --> 01:55:26,960
Transportation and Transportation side
of things have evacuation routes. I

1437
01:55:23,679 --> 01:55:31,679
don't know that we do as a township.
So there are county you have a county

1438
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:37,760
emergency management uh director and so
there are county emergency uh management

1439
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:42,719
procedures that uh that incorporate the
local municipalities also point. Um so

1440
01:55:40,480 --> 01:55:46,480
that is something and then as we get
into the the looking at regulations and

1441
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:52,639
things of that sort you know some good
comments about that and you know things

1442
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:58,320
like a fire like on individual projects
a little different you would have like a

1443
01:55:54,639 --> 01:56:03,760
fire protection plan uh a hazardous plan
emergency response plan uh that you'd

1444
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:05,920
have to approve for any of these kinds
of projects but

1445
01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:09,040
» that'll come as we look at the orders.
That's all. Yeah, that's

1446
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:12,320
» so more to come on a lot of those things
that were pointed out

1447
01:56:10,639 --> 01:56:15,440
» as we develop the ordinance. Right now,
we're just that's part of our

1448
01:56:13,599 --> 01:56:18,560
educational process to give us time to
figure all that out and good comments

1449
01:56:17,119 --> 01:56:24,719
that were mentioned.
>> Okay. Um so going to the criteria then

1450
01:56:21,360 --> 01:56:30,320
um commissioners um the first criteria
for text amendments is is the proposed

1451
01:56:27,119 --> 01:56:34,040
text amendment um would it clarify the
intent of the ordinance?

1452
01:56:38,719 --> 01:56:41,719
commissioners.

1453
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:43,440
» It does.
>> Yes.

1454
01:56:43,119 --> 01:56:46,960
» Yes.
>> Yes, it does. Because we're the text

1455
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:49,280
amendment is saying exactly what it is
that we want to do with the temporary

1456
01:56:48,159 --> 01:56:53,280
moratorum.
>> The next item, does the proposed text

1457
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:57,119
amendment um would it correct an error
or oversight in the ordinance? I don't

1458
01:56:55,440 --> 01:57:00,560
know that it's an error or an oversight,
but it's an addition too because of the

1459
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:06,400
new
>> anoles. Yeah, it is kind of a oversight,

1460
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:09,760
but it's not like most ordinances do not
have a moratorum provision in them. So,

1461
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:14,239
I don't want to say it's an oversight,
but it is a absence of that authority

1462
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:16,960
and it's a good idea to put it in your
ordinance.

1463
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:20,560
» Okay, [clears throat]
feel free to jump in anyone as we go

1464
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:23,440
through these. The proposed number
three, the proposed text amendment would

1465
01:57:22,080 --> 01:57:27,360
address changes to the state
legislation, recent case law, or

1466
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:32,280
opinions from the attorney general of
the state of Michigan. No.

1467
01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:40,326
I think we're trying to address the
issues from a a local level that we've

1468
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:42,239
seen is happening across the state. So,
[clears throat]

1469
01:57:41,199 --> 01:57:45,599
» okay, I'm going to keep going.
>> And there and again, these are

1470
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:50,320
guidelines. You don't have to meet every
single one. You just have to determine

1471
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:53,760
that in general meets these principles.
>> Correct. The proposed text amendment

1472
01:57:52,080 --> 01:57:57,040
would promote compliance with changes in
other county, state, or federal

1473
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:59,360
regulations.
It potentially could provide compliance

1474
01:57:58,639 --> 01:58:04,000
once [clears throat] we figure out
exactly what it is our ordinance is

1475
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:08,639
going to be. I would think
>> um in the event the amendment will add

1476
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:12,320
or use to a dis I'm sorry let me try
that again. In the event the amendment

1477
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:15,840
will add a use to a district that use
shall be fully consistent with the

1478
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:19,599
intent of the district and character or
range of uses provided for within the

1479
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:22,480
district.
>> That's not

1480
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:25,840
» not not applicable. Um the amendment
will not create incompatible land uses

1481
01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:29,199
within a zoning district or between
adjacent districts. Will not

1482
01:58:28,141 --> 01:58:32,960
[clears throat]
>> the proposed text amendment number seven

1483
01:58:31,280 --> 01:58:36,159
um is supported by the findings of
reports, studies or other documentation

1484
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:40,560
on functional requirements, contemporary
building practices, environmental rec

1485
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:45,679
requirements, and similar technical
items. I think it is supported by a lot

1486
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:48,800
of what was said today. Eight. As
applicable, the proposed change shall be

1487
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:51,679
consistent with the township's ability
to provide adequate public facilities

1488
01:58:50,400 --> 01:58:57,280
and services. I think that's what we
hope to get to at least as we look at an

1489
01:58:53,840 --> 01:59:01,520
ordinance. And number nine, the proposed
change shall be consistent with the

1490
01:58:59,119 --> 01:59:04,880
township's desire to protect the public
health, safety, and welfare of the

1491
01:59:03,119 --> 01:59:08,480
community. And I think that's the number
one. I mean, for me personally, I that's

1492
01:59:07,119 --> 01:59:12,000
what we're trying to do is do our due
diligence.

1493
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:15,440
» Miss anything? Any comments,
commissioners?

1494
01:59:14,560 --> 01:59:21,252
Mr.
>> Okay, we think it meets the standard. Is

1495
01:59:18,080 --> 01:59:21,252
um there a motion? [clears throat]

1496
01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:35,599
» So
I I move to um

1497
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:43,760
recommend that the board accept the
that we that we as a commission

1498
01:59:39,920 --> 01:59:48,040
recommend the uh
recommend commission to accept

1499
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:48,040
moratorium.

1500
01:59:56,159 --> 02:00:03,760
state that again please
>> don't make me [laughter]

1501
02:00:00,239 --> 02:00:09,760
I don't know what I said I said I I'm I
move that we recom that we recommend

1502
02:00:07,199 --> 02:00:13,920
this moratorum to go to the board for
approval the township board for approval

1503
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:16,639
» that and that includes the text
amendment amendment as well and and the

1504
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:19,840
pass
>> the data center

1505
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:23,880
» or the data center. Excuse me.
>> Is there a second to that motion?

1506
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:31,599
» Commissioner Buller, I believe.
>> Um, so I have a motion by Commissioner

1507
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:36,480
Sly, seconded by Commissioner Buller
that we um recommend [clears throat]

1508
02:00:34,639 --> 02:00:41,280
this ordinance which includes the text
amendment as well as the data center

1509
02:00:38,639 --> 02:00:45,360
moratorum um to the township board for
approval.

1510
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:51,440
I get that right.
Okay. Any further discussion?

1511
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:54,440
» Okay. Can we have a roll call vote,
please?

1512
02:00:55,040 --> 02:01:00,080
» Commissioner Buller,
>> yes.

1513
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:02,080
» Secretary Woods, yes. Commissioner
Riggs,

1514
02:01:00,719 --> 02:01:05,040
» yes.
>> Commissioner Summers,

1515
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:09,040
» yes.
>> Commissioner Redmond,

1516
02:01:06,159 --> 02:01:12,239
» yes.
>> Vice,

1517
02:01:10,639 --> 02:01:13,119
» yes.
Chair

1518
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:17,679
» Johnson,
>> yes.

1519
02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:22,719
Seven yes, zero no.
>> We'll move this on to um the county

1520
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:27,520
planning for their advisory and then
ultimately to the township board. Okay.

1521
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:31,679
Um, moving on and thank you to anybody
who is here for the special land use

1522
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:35,473
that you're just two hours into the
meeting, but the application for a

1523
02:01:33,599 --> 02:01:39,599
special land use and site
[clears throat] plan review for the

1524
02:01:36,639 --> 02:01:42,599
Calhoun County Road Department for a
5,187.78

1525
02:01:42,719 --> 02:01:52,679
ft groundmounted accessory use solar
energy uh collector. Is there a motion

1526
02:01:48,639 --> 02:01:52,679
to open the public hearing?

1527
02:01:52,719 --> 02:01:58,239
So move.
>> Is there a second? Second.

1528
02:01:56,400 --> 02:02:01,920
» Uh motion by Commissioner Buller,
seconded by Commissioner Riggs, that we

1529
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:03,760
open the public hearing. All those in
favor signify by saying I.

1530
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:08,719
» Second.
>> Oh, I'm sorry.

1531
02:02:06,159 --> 02:02:10,844
» Mr.
Commissioner

1532
02:02:09,040 --> 02:02:14,719
» Redmond.
[clears throat]

1533
02:02:12,239 --> 02:02:17,360
» All those in favor signify by saying I.
>> I.

1534
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:24,000
» All those opposed, same sign. We are now
into the public hearing um for the

1535
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:28,480
special land use and site plan. And this
is an opportunity for the presentation

1536
02:02:25,599 --> 02:02:31,280
if there is by the petitioner. Um and I
see someone's ready for the podium.

1537
02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:36,000
Thank you very much.
>> Yes. Uh thank you very much for uh

1538
02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:39,119
having us today. Um my name is Doug
Frell representing the county and the

1539
02:02:37,679 --> 02:02:42,560
assistant county one of the assistant
county administrators uh and really

1540
02:02:41,119 --> 02:02:48,000
representing the road department's
request uh for this special land use and

1541
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:52,239
site plan review application. Um we also
have uh Mid-American Solar. They're the

1542
02:02:50,560 --> 02:02:56,800
contractor on the project. So they will
be answering any of your technical

1543
02:02:53,840 --> 02:03:03,440
questions uh that you may have. Um just
really quickly uh we have 168 uh solar

1544
02:03:00,960 --> 02:03:10,000
panel array being proposed takes up
about 02 acres of our 34 acre site. So

1545
02:03:07,440 --> 02:03:15,119
we're not talking utility grade solar.
Um we're talking about really just

1546
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:19,440
generating solar on our site for our
facility. We're not paying getting money

1547
02:03:17,360 --> 02:03:24,239
back from the grid to to generate money
from this. This is really just uh

1548
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:29,520
helping us find some cost savings by
putting these solar panels in. Um and

1549
02:03:27,119 --> 02:03:35,440
that cost savings uh we've calculated in
in year one is about $24,000 a year that

1550
02:03:32,239 --> 02:03:39,520
we'll save in utility costs. By year 30
uh as we reach the end of the panel's

1551
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:45,119
lifespan, we're at $91,000 a year.
That's $1.5 million over the cost over

1552
02:03:42,080 --> 02:03:48,320
the life of those panels. Um, so for us,
you know, this project that we're

1553
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:53,520
working on is really looking at facility
upgrades and using that $1.5 million to

1554
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:57,840
to help the road department facilities,
but [clears throat] putting that dollars

1555
02:03:55,280 --> 02:04:02,080
in facilities opens up more money to go
to the roads. Um, so that's really

1556
02:03:59,679 --> 02:04:06,000
helping all of us. Um, it's helping the
road department get more work done. It's

1557
02:04:03,520 --> 02:04:10,159
helping our townships um, uh, and those
local road projects, our primary road

1558
02:04:07,679 --> 02:04:14,960
projects, too. So, uh, just from a
cost-saving point, it's it helps

1559
02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:20,639
everyone. uh not not just uh the county
per se, but uh townships as well. Um and

1560
02:04:19,119 --> 02:04:26,400
uh that's all I have, but I know we have
others to answer any questions. If you

1561
02:04:22,800 --> 02:04:30,239
have specific anything specific,
>> what is it? What's the cost?

1562
02:04:28,400 --> 02:04:33,035
» How much are you spending on these solar
panels? [clears throat]

1563
02:04:34,639 --> 02:04:43,040
» 550,000.
Thank you.

1564
02:04:38,719 --> 02:04:50,719
» What was the second bid on doing this?
Did you get a second bid? Don't the

1565
02:04:46,719 --> 02:04:55,760
counties and the uh public domain need
to get more than one bid for a project

1566
02:04:54,000 --> 02:05:00,639
like this.
>> The the way we did that this project is

1567
02:04:58,639 --> 02:05:05,679
um kind of as a a full package through
our consultant Varigy. Um uh so we we

1568
02:05:04,159 --> 02:05:10,000
bonded out this project. I don't know
the details off the top of my head on

1569
02:05:07,360 --> 02:05:15,440
exactly how each specific item of the
project was bid

1570
02:05:13,599 --> 02:05:19,360
» information.
>> Yeah, we could get that information um

1571
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:25,440
but don't have it off hand.
>> So what your what your answer is that

1572
02:05:21,440 --> 02:05:28,320
you did not go and request for other
companies to bid on doing this solar

1573
02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:31,599
panel.
>> Yeah, we we did have we had we had

1574
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:34,000
multiple bids. I I just don't have them
with me.

1575
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:37,599
Okay, my next question,
>> you know, welcome to if that needs to be

1576
02:05:35,360 --> 02:05:40,400
a condition or or anything, happy to
entertain that.

1577
02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:45,840
» And and this, you know, this is not
really to whether this piece of property

1578
02:05:42,960 --> 02:05:50,000
is applicable to do this. It's just I
think the county should put more

1579
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:53,599
diligence into how they're doing it and
where they're spending their county

1580
02:05:51,520 --> 02:06:00,320
money
coming to us. And because you came in

1581
02:05:56,239 --> 02:06:04,480
with is the property applicable to do
solar pins? Yes, it is. Yes, it's

1582
02:06:02,800 --> 02:06:12,880
allowable,
but there's 34 acres and you're putting

1583
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:19,360
it in the most exposure to people place
that you could. I don't know if you read

1584
02:06:15,679 --> 02:06:23,199
the response that we got. Um,
did you

1585
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:28,080
look into, you know, what was what was
the survey? What was the criteria for

1586
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:32,320
putting it where you went to putt it?
>> Um, I I think it was ease of access to

1587
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:39,119
the other facilities. um ease of access
to to to the road. I I hear your concern

1588
02:06:35,599 --> 02:06:42,960
100%. Um but really um with we also have
master planning we're doing on our site.

1589
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:46,800
Um we have some facilities over time
that you know they're kind of reaching

1590
02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:51,280
their useful life. So finding kind of a
tucked away corner that's not going to

1591
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:55,840
interfere as much with that overall
facilities master plan if we want to you

1592
02:06:53,599 --> 02:07:00,719
know do major renovations, tear downs of
certain facilities and put other things

1593
02:06:57,760 --> 02:07:04,239
up. Um, that was just the the place that
we identified that made the most sense.

1594
02:07:02,639 --> 02:07:08,560
» So, all the salt trucks are going to go
right past them. Was there any research?

1595
02:07:06,480 --> 02:07:13,440
I mean, you got a big pack of research
of sound and all this research that you

1596
02:07:11,040 --> 02:07:16,159
did. Was there a research impact on
those salt trucks driving right past

1597
02:07:15,119 --> 02:07:18,960
them? I
>> I don't think we did any specific

1598
02:07:17,679 --> 02:07:24,560
research on the salt trucks.
>> I I guess what my I think we should

1599
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:28,800
approve the use of the property for
solar panels, but you got 34 acres. I

1600
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:33,679
think you need to do some county
diligence in

1601
02:07:31,760 --> 02:07:40,639
where you do it and how you do it and
who you have do it. Not just because,

1602
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:45,599
you know, you're you're asking for
approval of the site plan that you gave

1603
02:07:42,880 --> 02:07:49,679
to us ahead of time, which is really a
whole different motion if I'm correct,

1604
02:07:47,280 --> 02:07:54,560
Joanna. Yes. that that's not really our
question to decide today, but I would

1605
02:07:52,000 --> 02:07:59,760
surely like to see a lot more diligence
done before we approve where you put it.

1606
02:07:58,239 --> 02:08:02,560
» Thank you very much. Thank you,
>> Commissioner Summers. Just for

1607
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:08,079
clarification, we do have both though
where um the way this was our public

1608
02:08:05,599 --> 02:08:12,159
hearing is for both. It is for the um
special land use and the site plan this

1609
02:08:10,079 --> 02:08:15,599
evening. So, we'll get to we'll do those
both separately. Okay.

1610
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:20,923
» Yep. Um
um I just let me see where we're at

1611
02:08:17,599 --> 02:08:24,000
here. I apologize, dear. Uh Don, um
[clears throat] I don't have any other

1612
02:08:22,639 --> 02:08:26,880
questions for you right at the moment.
>> No problem. I'll just

1613
02:08:25,360 --> 02:08:30,520
» Thank you. Is there anybody for public
comments on this item?

1614
02:08:31,599 --> 02:08:40,629
» Barry, stick to the public hearing on on
this particular item. Please

1615
02:08:38,609 --> 02:08:40,629
[clears throat]

1616
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:45,158
» try and do that.
>> I know. Thank you.

1617
02:08:43,194 --> 02:08:48,400
» [laughter]
[clears throat]

1618
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:53,800
» Uh
there's a problem with this recent

1619
02:08:50,800 --> 02:08:53,800
headlong

1620
02:08:55,440 --> 02:09:07,679
effort to think that we can try to beat
the second law of thermodynamics by

1621
02:09:03,199 --> 02:09:16,239
uh putting up these solar panels and
thinking that it's going to uh provide

1622
02:09:10,880 --> 02:09:20,480
us with a world of unlimited electricity
when Michigan

1623
02:09:19,199 --> 02:09:25,840
is [clears throat and snorts]
not really the best place. We get about

1624
02:09:22,800 --> 02:09:30,159
50% sunlight.
Uh and

1625
02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:35,440
like
Steve Cara had said uh there's the issue

1626
02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:41,040
of
putting solar panels in into an area and

1627
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:47,360
its resultant
uh effects that come from the uh

1628
02:09:44,560 --> 02:09:54,480
leeching of the uh materials the toxic
materials and the solar panels.

1629
02:09:51,840 --> 02:10:00,239
But
for millennia uh we have been dependent.

1630
02:09:58,480 --> 02:10:08,239
You know
there's a way that you can look at

1631
02:10:02,719 --> 02:10:16,560
physical reality and uh it's about the
modality of energy transfer systems.

1632
02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:21,040
And for millennia, the human species has
been reliant on what we can call an

1633
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:26,079
endosomatic
energy transfer system where

1634
02:10:24,159 --> 02:10:30,840
we are getting our sources of energy
from living systems.

1635
02:10:32,159 --> 02:10:38,560
Uh that seemed to work very well for us
for centuries and centuries. But with

1636
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:44,159
the uh
uh

1637
02:10:40,079 --> 02:10:48,719
invention of the computer and then the
uh

1638
02:10:45,760 --> 02:10:55,920
the insidious
influences of AI which make us think

1639
02:10:52,719 --> 02:11:01,440
that we have to have more of it and more
of it is better.

1640
02:10:58,719 --> 02:11:06,880
uh we're falling prey to this notion
that we have to displace

1641
02:11:04,320 --> 02:11:13,520
the living world with the non-living
world.

1642
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:18,159
And uh again like I had brought up
before you know we're coming to a head

1643
02:11:15,920 --> 02:11:27,599
with
uh clashing world views as to how we

1644
02:11:22,480 --> 02:11:33,440
should be living our lives and uh which
as Americans should should we be uh

1645
02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:37,840
concerned about
constructing the

1646
02:11:35,599 --> 02:11:43,599
environment of our lives so it
facilitates

1647
02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:49,440
the mandates of existential freedom
which

1648
02:11:45,199 --> 02:11:54,159
were so well uh
valued in our uh founding documents,

1649
02:11:52,639 --> 02:11:58,880
Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution.

1650
02:11:56,159 --> 02:12:06,400
Are we creating a
what will end up being a techno prison

1651
02:12:02,560 --> 02:12:13,119
uh that is without fences
and uh

1652
02:12:09,119 --> 02:12:18,000
you know more electricity does not mean
a better world.

1653
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:23,760
Uh and there could be, you know, coming
up within the next month or two

1654
02:12:21,520 --> 02:12:28,159
uh a serious
uh

1655
02:12:25,440 --> 02:12:35,760
change of direction that is going to
result from the catastrophic

1656
02:12:32,159 --> 02:12:44,560
inability to supply
uh sufficient diesel fuel to

1657
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:48,159
uh satisfy our uh our economic needs and
you know our energy needs.

1658
02:12:47,511 --> 02:12:53,406
[clears throat]
So, uh

1659
02:12:51,199 --> 02:12:57,920
if that happens, there is going
[clears throat] to be a serious

1660
02:12:54,480 --> 02:13:02,719
recalibration in our priorities.
Uh and we're not going to be so worried

1661
02:13:00,480 --> 02:13:07,599
about uh trying to get a few extra
megawws out out of some acreage, but uh

1662
02:13:05,360 --> 02:13:12,239
we're going to be more concerned about
making sure that we can get uh some food

1663
02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:21,560
in our belly each day.
So, uh, these concerns are concerns of

1664
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:21,560
convenience and not of need.

1665
02:13:22,079 --> 02:13:26,520
Take [snorts] that into consideration,
please.

1666
02:13:30,320 --> 02:13:38,320
» Historic Marshall.
So, according to my research, most all

1667
02:13:35,679 --> 02:13:43,199
these solar panels have Chinese spyware
in them that can cause an EMP. This is

1668
02:13:41,280 --> 02:13:47,360
part of the overall three warfare
program of the Chinese Communist Party

1669
02:13:45,599 --> 02:13:54,320
along with the wind turbines, battery
storage, um, data centers.

1670
02:13:50,960 --> 02:14:00,320
Uh, we now have a World War II
ground level site here with at least a

1671
02:13:58,159 --> 02:14:04,800
thousand Kal members that flew in in the
middle of the night about 10:30 in March

1672
02:14:02,400 --> 02:14:10,560
for about a two week span. the solar
panels capability on the EMP, which is

1673
02:14:07,760 --> 02:14:15,760
electromagnetic pulse. When that goes
off, 80 to 90% of our population will

1674
02:14:13,199 --> 02:14:21,440
die. These young men were trying to tell
me they're all Americanmade and they got

1675
02:14:17,440 --> 02:14:26,239
rid of the spyware. I freaking hope so.
Um because it won't come back up. I'm

1676
02:14:24,000 --> 02:14:31,040
just saying. Pee off. They heat up the
atmosphere and ozone. They give off

1677
02:14:28,480 --> 02:14:37,440
black radiation. I had a friend years
ago that worked for consumers. She had

1678
02:14:33,760 --> 02:14:44,920
to carry a geer counter to even go near
it. Just saying.

1679
02:14:40,159 --> 02:14:44,920
» Comments. Anyone else?

1680
02:14:50,000 --> 02:14:59,199
» Julie Bryant again. Um I agree with
[clears throat] excuse me with Barry in

1681
02:14:55,760 --> 02:15:05,040
regards to we live in Michigan. How much
sunset? Um, I'd also like to know, I

1682
02:15:02,320 --> 02:15:10,480
don't know this property. Um, is there
residential? Is there businesses? What's

1683
02:15:07,520 --> 02:15:14,000
around that area that they decided to
use the little corner? Because we all

1684
02:15:12,639 --> 02:15:22,960
know that they're not looking out for
us. So, we need to know exactly where

1685
02:15:17,280 --> 02:15:28,960
this is at. Um I I also do not feel that
um we need to dot these solar fields you

1686
02:15:27,440 --> 02:15:33,760
know like it needs to be part of the
master plan and not just like solar

1687
02:15:31,440 --> 02:15:38,079
field here solar field there solar field
there like you guys were talking about

1688
02:15:35,280 --> 02:15:45,239
earlier to you know keep everything kind
of in an area. So that's my thoughts.

1689
02:15:42,079 --> 02:15:45,239
Thank you.

1690
02:15:48,639 --> 02:15:56,560
Hi, my name is Dylan Pew, Mid America
Solar. Um, I'm a Marshall resident. Um,

1691
02:15:54,960 --> 02:16:01,440
have been, grew up in all of that for a
very long time. I'm here to answer any

1692
02:15:59,440 --> 02:16:07,360
technical questions in relation to the
solar project, whether it's now or

1693
02:16:03,840 --> 02:16:12,719
during the board's um, comments, but I
can attest to the fact that I have solar

1694
02:16:09,440 --> 02:16:18,320
at home. Um, I'm a big advocate of
diversified energy rather than filling

1695
02:16:15,280 --> 02:16:22,880
our farm fields full of solar. I
wholeheartedly agree that each person

1696
02:16:20,719 --> 02:16:28,239
should have their own form of renewable
energy in their home. Um, like I don't

1697
02:16:26,239 --> 02:16:32,479
buy anything from Consumer's Energy. I
don't sell anything to Consumer's Energy

1698
02:16:30,639 --> 02:16:38,240
regardless of how many sunlight hours
Michigan gets. Uh, my lights stay on

1699
02:16:35,519 --> 02:16:42,240
regardless of a tornado in northern
Mingo Township.

1700
02:16:40,319 --> 02:16:47,760
um doesn't matter what kind of
thunderstorm rolls through or you know

1701
02:16:44,880 --> 02:16:52,719
ITC's transmission lines running through
our local townships. Um grid

1702
02:16:51,040 --> 02:16:58,160
instability,
Chinese products,

1703
02:16:55,040 --> 02:17:02,399
uh solar is definitely a viable option
especially for cost savings to the

1704
02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:07,040
county. So, um, you know, ultimately
it's going to save taxpayer money, which

1705
02:17:04,960 --> 02:17:11,359
is going to be able to put the budget
towards the roads, which is kind of a

1706
02:17:09,679 --> 02:17:15,359
big thing around here. I used to live on
19 mile road in Mingo Township. I don't

1707
02:17:14,240 --> 02:17:18,479
know if anyone's been out there
recently, but you make it about a

1708
02:17:17,359 --> 02:17:22,960
quarter of the way down and then you
turn around. So, um,

1709
02:17:21,760 --> 02:17:30,559
» right now I'm here to answer any
questions. Um, you know, I I get there's

1710
02:17:26,319 --> 02:17:34,399
a big push against solar, uh, in Calhoun
County in general with some past

1711
02:17:32,399 --> 02:17:40,559
projects or future ones that everyone's
been looking at, but um, ultimately this

1712
02:17:38,319 --> 02:17:46,399
is a a diversified or distributed
product or project. So, you know, we're

1713
02:17:43,439 --> 02:17:51,359
not looking at supplying power to, you
know, a billion homes. We're we're

1714
02:17:48,080 --> 02:17:55,439
looking at supplying energy to
a county building. Um there's others in

1715
02:17:53,920 --> 02:18:00,559
Kelvin County that are doing the same
thing. So, this isn't a one-off project.

1716
02:17:58,479 --> 02:18:06,639
It's a goal that the county has to
reduce costs to taxpayers

1717
02:18:04,080 --> 02:18:09,359
um and and build a better community. So,
thank you,

1718
02:18:07,200 --> 02:18:13,800
» Doug. I will have or is it Dylan? Excuse
me. I will have some questions for you.

1719
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:13,800
So

1720
02:18:15,015 --> 02:18:21,519
[clears throat]
>> Richard Lindsay again, Marshall Township

1721
02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:26,559
resident, 1559 17 half mile road. Also
former county attorney, also foreigner

1722
02:18:23,840 --> 02:18:32,319
attorney for Oakland Hospital. I'm very
familiar with this site. Um, and good

1723
02:18:29,359 --> 02:18:38,240
segue into this. Uh, south of the site,
it has Consumer's Energy parcel. uh west

1724
02:18:35,599 --> 02:18:43,439
of the site. Uh MA owns the parcel on
the corner at 15 Mile Road in M96 and

1725
02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:49,120
then there's a series of commercial
industrial uses in that area. North of

1726
02:18:46,080 --> 02:18:53,280
that is uh Preston Drive and which we
worked with the township when I was in

1727
02:18:50,479 --> 02:18:58,080
Oaklan to get that repaved. Oaklan
operates offices out of the south west

1728
02:18:56,240 --> 02:19:04,960
or southeast corner of that parcel that
joins this area. Um, [clears throat] and

1729
02:19:00,880 --> 02:19:09,439
on the east side of the property is I69.
Um, I I can't literally imagine a better

1730
02:19:07,359 --> 02:19:15,280
place to put this kind of a project than
this particular location. As I go

1731
02:19:11,760 --> 02:19:19,840
through the the one through eight items
in the ordinance, it satisfies all of

1732
02:19:17,599 --> 02:19:26,399
those without any question whatsoever.
Um, I support solar. I think it's good

1733
02:19:22,960 --> 02:19:32,240
to switch from um so you know fighting
in Iran to secure our oil supplies to be

1734
02:19:29,280 --> 02:19:37,439
able to have power that is grown in our
fields essentially um here at home. And

1735
02:19:35,599 --> 02:19:42,000
again, I think this is I'm I'm going to
trust the county in saying that it was a

1736
02:19:39,519 --> 02:19:45,359
good use of county funds. I'm sure I'm
familiar very familiar with the

1737
02:19:43,519 --> 02:19:50,160
purchasing process for the county. So
I'm sure there was a rigorous purchasing

1738
02:19:47,280 --> 02:19:56,560
process it was going through. Um, at the
extent this frees more money to be able

1739
02:19:53,040 --> 02:19:59,760
to use to fix the roads,
think that's a good thing. So, my

1740
02:19:58,880 --> 02:20:08,160
comments. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Anyone else?

1741
02:20:03,600 --> 02:20:11,399
Okay. Um, is there a motion to close the
public hearing?

1742
02:20:11,840 --> 02:20:17,760
Move to
>> close public hearing.

1743
02:20:13,520 --> 02:20:20,399
» Thank you. Is there a second?
>> Yeah.

1744
02:20:20,560 --> 02:20:25,280
Motion by Commissioner Buller, second by
Commissioner Snomemers to close the

1745
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:30,160
public hearing. All those in favor
signify by saying I. I.

1746
02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:36,640
» All those opposed, same sign. Motion
carries. Um within our documents, we

1747
02:20:33,439 --> 02:20:43,200
have a zoning administrators report um
to help us through some of the criteria.

1748
02:20:40,319 --> 02:20:48,399
Um I would like to mention I appreciate
Shelley following up I guess with maybe

1749
02:20:44,880 --> 02:20:50,960
Mid American Solar and Dylan. Um I have
just a couple questions for you if you

1750
02:20:49,520 --> 02:20:58,000
want to head back to the podium and then
I'll open it up to everybody else. Um I

1751
02:20:54,240 --> 02:21:03,600
know you um so this educate me quite
frankly. Um so this isn't like other

1752
02:21:00,720 --> 02:21:07,680
solar that's being there's is it a miso
what is it called where you have an

1753
02:21:04,640 --> 02:21:10,240
agreement with another ITC or anybody
else. It's not going back to the grid at

1754
02:21:09,200 --> 02:21:14,960
all.
>> So typically there's an interconnection

1755
02:21:12,399 --> 02:21:19,439
operating agreement. Yes. Um, there will
be one here just due to the fact that

1756
02:21:16,960 --> 02:21:21,439
Consumer's Energy requires it because
>> Okay.

1757
02:21:19,840 --> 02:21:25,680
» because we're connecting to the county
building's current electrical system

1758
02:21:23,359 --> 02:21:30,720
which is also tied to consumers energy.
So, you know, the Cowan County Road

1759
02:21:29,200 --> 02:21:34,240
Department building will still be
connected to consumer. So, they can

1760
02:21:32,399 --> 02:21:40,160
always have the option to purchase
energy from consumers energy. Um, but in

1761
02:21:37,439 --> 02:21:43,600
this instance, we're not producing more
than what the county is using. But if

1762
02:21:42,319 --> 02:21:45,520
you do,
>> yeah,

1763
02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:50,240
» it can go back to the grid.
>> It has the potential, it'll have the

1764
02:21:47,280 --> 02:21:53,359
right, the legal right to be exported.
>> That's part of the agreement, right?

1765
02:21:51,920 --> 02:21:57,920
» Yeah. We need to make sure that we're
meeting safety concerns with consumers

1766
02:21:55,840 --> 02:22:02,960
energy. So, they call it shutdown, rapid
shutdown compliance. So,

1767
02:22:00,720 --> 02:22:08,160
you know, if a storm runs through um
takes down a power line just down the

1768
02:22:04,479 --> 02:22:12,560
street on 15mi, uh an emergency worker,
whether it's a lineman, firefighter,

1769
02:22:10,479 --> 02:22:17,200
whoever needs to be able to shut that
solar system off. So, those are all

1770
02:22:15,439 --> 02:22:22,399
regulations that we have to meet to
consumers energy energy to ensure that

1771
02:22:20,479 --> 02:22:24,640
it can safely be worked on the
electrical system as well as the

1772
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:27,040
building. So,
>> I guess what I was getting at is you

1773
02:22:25,920 --> 02:22:28,319
still need to have an agreement with
them.

1774
02:22:27,280 --> 02:22:31,920
» We will have an agreement. Yeah,
>> you will you will have an agreement.

1775
02:22:29,760 --> 02:22:35,200
» Yep. It's I believe it's already
approved for construction. We're just

1776
02:22:33,600 --> 02:22:37,680
kind of working through the permitting
phase right now. So

1777
02:22:36,160 --> 02:22:39,520
» through that is that through that MYSO
or whatever.

1778
02:22:38,080 --> 02:22:45,439
» No, it's just through consumers energy.
>> Through consumers that typically

1779
02:22:42,560 --> 02:22:50,479
» much larger projects. Yeah. And directly
they call a medium voltage connection.

1780
02:22:48,000 --> 02:22:55,520
So you know similar to what you see in
these farm fields where it's connecting

1781
02:22:53,120 --> 02:22:58,880
at 13,000 volts or something like that.
Here we're connecting to the building.

1782
02:22:57,120 --> 02:23:02,640
And the reason I asked a lot of the
questions and and thank you that I I

1783
02:23:00,720 --> 02:23:07,120
don't know what page this is on but you
know related to the total energy watts

1784
02:23:04,720 --> 02:23:11,840
on the panels versus the need for the
road department and you know what could

1785
02:23:09,920 --> 02:23:17,439
potentially go into the grid in the
future. We don't know right. Um is where

1786
02:23:15,359 --> 02:23:23,120
that constituted for us that commercial
versus non-commercial.

1787
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:28,960
» Yeah. The energy isn't being generated
for the purpose of sale. So, um, you

1788
02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:33,200
know, there may be instances, say the
county is not using a bunch of energy

1789
02:23:30,560 --> 02:23:37,520
during, um, you know, an awesome June
day. You know, there could be energy

1790
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:41,439
that goes back to consumers energy that
they get on their bill in a form of a

1791
02:23:39,040 --> 02:23:45,280
credit and those credits get used during
the nighttime or during low producing

1792
02:23:43,920 --> 02:23:51,120
months. So,
>> okay. And then to answer the question um

1793
02:23:48,160 --> 02:23:55,920
that we had from public comments um
because we do know and you've been

1794
02:23:52,640 --> 02:24:01,439
around our township as well. We have um
you know um Chinese shipping you know

1795
02:23:58,640 --> 02:24:05,520
wherever these are coming from and did I
hear I think someone said it maybe was

1796
02:24:03,520 --> 02:24:10,800
that these are made in I mean just just
to answer their question is it made in

1797
02:24:07,439 --> 02:24:14,880
are these products from the US of A? um
majority so like structure the things

1798
02:24:13,520 --> 02:24:22,720
that hold the solar panels are made
right in Albian so 10 15 miles away the

1799
02:24:19,280 --> 02:24:27,439
inverters are a German manufacturer so
they're engineered designed and

1800
02:24:24,960 --> 02:24:33,600
manufactured in Germany I don't know on
these specific panels but it's probably

1801
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:36,240
Southeastern Asia usually not China
right now because of tariffs and some

1802
02:24:35,439 --> 02:24:40,479
other things
>> I'm just trying to answer the question

1803
02:24:37,600 --> 02:24:44,640
for the audience just related So the big
the biggest question and concern that

1804
02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:50,960
comes along with solar has already kind
of been dealt with. Early July there was

1805
02:24:47,359 --> 02:24:57,200
an FCC ban on communications equipment
that can be associated with remote

1806
02:24:54,080 --> 02:25:03,040
monitoring or remote uh control of the
system that would cause thermal runaway

1807
02:25:00,080 --> 02:25:06,640
or anything like that. So, there's
actually been a ban from the federal

1808
02:25:04,399 --> 02:25:11,600
government that doesn't allow
communications equipment manufactured by

1809
02:25:08,560 --> 02:25:15,600
certain countries.
>> And then the only other thing I wanted

1810
02:25:13,040 --> 02:25:19,359
to add is um not included in the packet
because I think we got it yesterday.

1811
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:24,720
Bear with me. Is that right, Shelley? We
um have a letter um and I don't know if

1812
02:25:22,160 --> 02:25:31,200
you've all seen it um between the county
um road department or the county and um

1813
02:25:27,040 --> 02:25:36,640
Midame American Solar. Um we did get a a
lengthy feedback from one of the

1814
02:25:33,840 --> 02:25:41,040
property owners which is um doggy spa
and playc care. So um I don't know if

1815
02:25:39,120 --> 02:25:43,760
you've seen that but um we can talk
about that as we get through this. I

1816
02:25:42,800 --> 02:25:48,800
just wanted to make sure for the
audience that you knew we did have um

1817
02:25:46,399 --> 02:25:52,080
feedback from doggy spot and playare
which be which would be what to the

1818
02:25:50,319 --> 02:25:56,160
north.
>> Yeah directly north.

1819
02:25:53,920 --> 02:26:01,280
» Um we know of that communication but we
don't know what it consists of.

1820
02:25:58,880 --> 02:26:04,319
» We're happy to share that. Thank you,
>> commissioners. Um, any questions or

1821
02:26:03,040 --> 02:26:12,319
comments? Yes, Shelley.
>> I'd like to go through our land use

1822
02:26:06,720 --> 02:26:16,479
definitions real quick to confirm what
the difference is between commercial

1823
02:26:14,319 --> 02:26:20,479
solar energy system in the definition of
your ordinance book. Commercial energy

1824
02:26:18,560 --> 02:26:24,880
solar system means a utility scale
facility of solar energy collectors with

1825
02:26:22,880 --> 02:26:30,080
the primary purpose of wholesale or
retail of generated electricity, also

1826
02:26:27,680 --> 02:26:35,680
known as a solar farm. These are in no
way commercial. You do have solar energy

1827
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:39,760
collector which means panel or panels
and other devices or equipment or any

1828
02:26:37,840 --> 02:26:44,800
combination thereof that collect, store,
distribute and/or transform solar,

1829
02:26:42,319 --> 02:26:48,560
radiant energy into electrical, thermal
or chemical energy for the purpose of

1830
02:26:46,640 --> 02:26:54,479
generating electric power or other form
of generated energy for use in an use in

1831
02:26:52,160 --> 02:26:58,399
or associated with a principal land use
on the parcel of land on which the solar

1832
02:26:57,280 --> 02:27:04,880
energy collector [clears throat] is
located. and if permitted for the sale

1833
02:27:01,680 --> 02:27:12,040
and distribution of excess available
electricity to an authorized public

1834
02:27:06,880 --> 02:27:12,040
utility for distribution to other lands.

1835
02:27:16,640 --> 02:27:27,040
» Is this is this a fixed uh
>> so so it's facing south?

1836
02:27:23,600 --> 02:27:31,680
» Yeah, it's a 30° tilt face south. So it
doesn't with the sun

1837
02:27:29,120 --> 02:27:33,680
» big fields it doesn't rotate daily or
seasonal.

1838
02:27:32,319 --> 02:27:36,800
» Okay. Because I was looking at the
glare.

1839
02:27:34,880 --> 02:27:39,520
» Yeah. We did provide a full glare report
for 15 mile to make sure cars weren't

1840
02:27:39,040 --> 02:27:40,640
being
>> Yeah.

1841
02:27:39,920 --> 02:27:46,240
» blinded in.
>> I was concerned about if it if it was a

1842
02:27:43,439 --> 02:27:53,200
moving what the glare would be because
it looks like it's like in June and July

1843
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:57,040
you get over 200 minutes a day of glare.
So I was concerned about that.

1844
02:27:54,880 --> 02:28:01,120
» Yeah. And that's just ground level
glare. So, you know, it's not

1845
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:07,280
necessarily the road, but it might be
reflected into the woods or something.

1846
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:10,640
» I was concerned that if it if it was
a moving that it might reflect onto the

1847
02:28:09,359 --> 02:28:13,280
neighboring property.
>> Oh, yeah.

1848
02:28:11,040 --> 02:28:15,920
» But if it's fixed to the south, the
glare would probably be to the south, I

1849
02:28:15,120 --> 02:28:22,720
would imagine.
>> Yeah. It's typically to the uh southeast

1850
02:28:18,720 --> 02:28:27,120
is the most common glare area. um other
than overhead [snorts] airplanes which

1851
02:28:25,280 --> 02:28:32,720
is usually the primary reason for a
glare report is we're close to an

1852
02:28:28,880 --> 02:28:36,720
airport. Um but you know the township
requested it. We felt it was a good idea

1853
02:28:34,560 --> 02:28:41,120
to check 15 mile too. So they checked
everything.

1854
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:44,640
» Any other questions?
Yes.

1855
02:28:41,600 --> 02:28:52,319
» So in your site plan,
>> where is the electrical feed to

1856
02:28:50,080 --> 02:28:56,960
» So it comes
buildings right now. So why does it need

1857
02:28:54,800 --> 02:29:02,160
to be way over there instead of behind
the administrative building?

1858
02:28:58,880 --> 02:29:07,120
» The electrical service is on the west
side of the building. So it's on the

1859
02:29:03,600 --> 02:29:11,439
front side of the building. Um, I'd say
I don't have an exact measurement, but

1860
02:29:08,640 --> 02:29:17,439
I'd say it's about 100 foot, maybe 75
foot south of the north, sorry, of the

1861
02:29:14,160 --> 02:29:22,960
northwest corner. So, it's on that west
side. The closest available area is that

1862
02:29:20,399 --> 02:29:27,359
northern kind of cutout section.
>> What would be the cost if you bring it

1863
02:29:24,640 --> 02:29:32,800
from if you were to move it over behind
the administration building? What would

1864
02:29:30,160 --> 02:29:36,640
be the problem with that?
Commissioner some can I'm going to hold

1865
02:29:34,640 --> 02:29:39,920
that conversation hold that thought.
>> Let's try to do one thing at a time at

1866
02:29:38,399 --> 02:29:44,800
least get us through the special land
use and maybe approve or what and and

1867
02:29:42,720 --> 02:29:48,640
then I do want to just again I know it's
late hour it's 9:30 but we're going to

1868
02:29:46,479 --> 02:29:53,439
do our due diligence. Um Shelley, is
there anything you want to point out in

1869
02:29:50,720 --> 02:29:57,760
terms of the special land use um in your
administrative report at all? Anything

1870
02:29:55,520 --> 02:30:01,040
in particular? I found nothing that
would

1871
02:29:59,280 --> 02:30:05,240
not allow the planning commission to
approve the special land use.

1872
02:30:05,520 --> 02:30:11,680
» Solar panels are allowed in the side and
the rear yard and it has been confirmed

1873
02:30:09,840 --> 02:30:16,160
that these panels are located in the
sideyard. They are not in front of the

1874
02:30:13,520 --> 02:30:22,560
principal building.
Um so with that commissioners if we if

1875
02:30:18,560 --> 02:30:26,560
we may um we have the again the criteria
for the special land use standards and

1876
02:30:24,319 --> 02:30:30,960
as Shelley Arzon administr administrator
mentioned um in her report we have

1877
02:30:29,120 --> 02:30:34,960
information as well.
>> Um I know we had some public comment. Um

1878
02:30:33,439 --> 02:30:39,040
Dylan you can have a seat for a couple
minutes. Yeah. Sorry.

1879
02:30:36,800 --> 02:30:44,720
» Um if we can again go through the
standards for special land use. Um, the

1880
02:30:42,399 --> 02:30:48,720
use is designed and constructed and will
be operated and maintained to be

1881
02:30:46,160 --> 02:30:53,439
harmonious and appropriate in appearance
with existing or intended character. Um,

1882
02:30:51,520 --> 02:30:58,000
I get my pages here. Of the general
vicinity, will be compatible with

1883
02:30:55,680 --> 02:31:02,399
adjacent uses of land and will not
change the essential character of the

1884
02:31:00,000 --> 02:31:05,399
area in which it is proposed. Comments,
commissioners?

1885
02:31:06,720 --> 02:31:14,080
» Okay. I think um
again I think we know the zoning um in

1886
02:31:12,160 --> 02:31:17,520
that area
>> is light industrial

1887
02:31:14,880 --> 02:31:21,600
» light industrial I believe. Yeah. Um the
you number two the use is or as a result

1888
02:31:19,760 --> 02:31:26,880
of the special land use approval will be
served adequately by public services um

1889
02:31:24,240 --> 02:31:30,319
and facilities including
um but not limited to streets, police,

1890
02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:35,760
fire protection, drainage structures,
refu disposal, water and sewer

1891
02:31:32,800 --> 02:31:38,960
facilities and schools.
>> Yes. No, I don't see an issue.

1892
02:31:37,520 --> 02:31:42,720
» Okay. The use will not involve
activities, processes, materials, and

1893
02:31:40,800 --> 02:31:47,200
equipment or conditions of operation
that would be detrimental to any

1894
02:31:44,479 --> 02:31:52,640
person's property or the general welfare
by reason of traffic, noise, smoke,

1895
02:31:49,359 --> 02:31:57,040
fumes, glare, or order odor odors? It's
getting late, guys.

1896
02:31:55,280 --> 02:31:59,920
Thoughts on that?
>> I was concerned about the glare, but I

1897
02:31:58,720 --> 02:32:03,920
think you'd answered that.
>> Okay. And as far as the traffic, it's

1898
02:32:02,479 --> 02:32:07,760
primarily it'll just be during the
construction. And I know that the county

1899
02:32:05,600 --> 02:32:11,359
has entered in entered into road
agreements, but this is just for that

1900
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:14,720
one site. It shouldn't be that much
impact, I would hope. Um, the special

1901
02:32:13,200 --> 02:32:17,840
land use will be consistent with the
intent and purposes of this ordinance

1902
02:32:16,240 --> 02:32:22,640
and most recent updates of the Marshall
Township master plan. We had that

1903
02:32:20,399 --> 02:32:26,960
information here. Um, it will not be
hazardous or disturbing to existing or

1904
02:32:24,720 --> 02:32:32,800
future uses in the same general facility
and in the community as a whole.

1905
02:32:30,000 --> 02:32:37,680
Um my only comment to that is you know
the hazardous in the future. I don't

1906
02:32:34,640 --> 02:32:43,120
have the answer to that completely um to
be determined in my opinion.

1907
02:32:41,280 --> 02:32:46,720
Pipe up anybody as we move along. It
will not create excessive additional

1908
02:32:44,880 --> 02:32:50,319
requirements at public cost for
infrastructure and will not be

1909
02:32:48,479 --> 02:32:56,720
detrimental to the economic welfare of
the community.

1910
02:32:53,200 --> 02:33:01,120
again for use of the particular site. It
will ensure that the environment shall

1911
02:32:58,640 --> 02:33:05,825
be present preserved in its natural
state in so far as practical practicable

1912
02:33:04,000 --> 02:33:10,240
by minimizing tree and soil removal
[snorts] and topographic modifications

1913
02:33:08,399 --> 02:33:13,600
which result in maximum harmony and
adjacent areas.

1914
02:33:12,240 --> 02:33:18,399
Don't think there's major things that
have to be moved out of place for that.

1915
02:33:16,640 --> 02:33:23,280
Um, and it shall confirm with all
specific, excuse me, conform with all

1916
02:33:21,359 --> 02:33:28,479
specific requirements applicable to the
proposed use as applicable.

1917
02:33:25,920 --> 02:33:33,920
That's a
comments on that.

1918
02:33:30,960 --> 02:33:37,760
Commissioners, is there a um, unless you
have other questions for either the

1919
02:33:35,840 --> 02:33:39,840
county or Mid-American, is there a
motion?

1920
02:33:38,640 --> 02:33:43,040
» It meets the standards.
>> Meets the standards

1921
02:33:40,960 --> 02:33:47,746
» in my opinion.
>> Any further comments on the standards?

1922
02:33:45,781 --> 02:33:49,766
» [clears throat]
[snorts]

1923
02:33:54,720 --> 02:34:04,600
» I'll make a motion that we approve the
special end use for the Calhoun County

1924
02:34:00,319 --> 02:34:04,600
Road Department for a 5,187.78

1925
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:14,160
square foot ground mounted accessory use
solar energy collector.

1926
02:34:12,399 --> 02:34:18,800
» Is there a second?
>> Second.

1927
02:34:16,160 --> 02:34:22,479
We have a motion by Commissioner Woods
and seconded by Commissioner

1928
02:34:19,842 --> 02:34:28,840
[clears throat] Redmond
um as stated to approve. Any further

1929
02:34:25,840 --> 02:34:28,840
discussion?

1930
02:34:29,760 --> 02:34:33,640
Roll call vote, please.

1931
02:34:33,760 --> 02:34:41,680
» Uh Commissioner Woods, yes.
>> Commissioner Riggs,

1932
02:34:39,280 --> 02:34:45,359
» yes.
>> Commissioner Subs,

1933
02:34:43,280 --> 02:34:49,479
» yes. [snorts]
Commissioner Redmond.

1934
02:34:46,479 --> 02:34:49,479
» Yes.

1935
02:34:49,520 --> 02:34:53,760
» Chair Johnson.
>> Yes.

1936
02:34:52,479 --> 02:34:56,800
» Vice Chair Sly.
>> Yes.

1937
02:34:55,359 --> 02:34:59,920
» Commissioner Buller. [clears throat]
>> Yes.

1938
02:34:58,479 --> 02:35:04,240
» And a motion.
>> So, the special land use um is approved.

1939
02:35:02,560 --> 02:35:10,560
And now we can move on to the second
part which I think speaks to some of the

1940
02:35:07,200 --> 02:35:15,600
concerns from um the doggy daycare that
we receive. Doggy spa and playcare

1941
02:35:12,640 --> 02:35:20,160
pardon me. and um Commissioner Summer's
uh questions. Again, we do have um the

1942
02:35:18,399 --> 02:35:24,880
standards here. We have the
administrator's report. Um Shelley, is

1943
02:35:23,040 --> 02:35:30,560
there anything you want to add related
to the site plan? I would like to

1944
02:35:27,359 --> 02:35:35,760
mention that based on the location,
although the um there is a residential

1945
02:35:33,680 --> 02:35:42,560
house there, everything around this
property is on the north side and where

1946
02:35:40,399 --> 02:35:46,960
the solar panels are. It's actually
community service district.

1947
02:35:45,439 --> 02:35:51,520
» So there's that one home I think just to
the north and then the doggy spa and

1948
02:35:49,120 --> 02:35:56,000
that Preston area I think is what's
there. But they al are all zoned

1949
02:35:54,640 --> 02:36:00,960
commercial service
>> and I assume that notices went out

1950
02:35:58,479 --> 02:36:03,920
including that home. Um I'm assuming for
for that

1951
02:36:01,840 --> 02:36:07,120
» I would assume the notices went out.
>> Yes, the notices did go out. Yes. Okay.

1952
02:36:06,607 --> 02:36:10,120
[clears throat]
>> Okay.

1953
02:36:12,319 --> 02:36:18,160
» Doggy daycarees to the north. The homes
to the west.

1954
02:36:15,359 --> 02:36:24,000
» Nope. HS
>> right. It's in front of it.

1955
02:36:21,200 --> 02:36:27,920
» Yeah. Correct.
>> No residential properties abuing that

1956
02:36:26,560 --> 02:36:34,399
property whatsoever.
>> Yes, there is.

1957
02:36:30,160 --> 02:36:38,319
» Not district-wise. There is not
zoning.

1958
02:36:35,760 --> 02:36:42,080
» So, the house is not residential.
>> The house is a residence, but it's not

1959
02:36:40,000 --> 02:36:46,960
zoned residential. It's zoned commercial
or highway service.

1960
02:36:45,040 --> 02:36:54,359
So somewhere along the lines, the
township has reszoned those properties

1961
02:36:50,880 --> 02:36:54,359
in that area.

1962
02:36:55,920 --> 02:37:00,720
» So I think that's the difference is
there's a home there, but [cough] the

1963
02:36:59,439 --> 02:37:05,200
zoning is is
>> someone is living in it.

1964
02:37:02,640 --> 02:37:10,479
» I assume I don't
>> but I think they were duly notified um

1965
02:37:07,760 --> 02:37:14,000
of the public hearing. So the only
comments that I'm aware of other than

1966
02:37:12,160 --> 02:37:18,000
the comments thank you here this evening
that we've received written is the doggy

1967
02:37:16,240 --> 02:37:21,000
spot in play here. That's all I'm aware
of.

1968
02:37:23,439 --> 02:37:26,720
Commissioners, do you want to go through
the standards

1969
02:37:26,519 --> 02:37:29,920
» [snorts]
>> um or any specific site plan areas that

1970
02:37:28,960 --> 02:37:36,319
you'd like to address? I know
Commissioner Summers, you mentioned some

1971
02:37:31,920 --> 02:37:40,319
related to its location. Um
thoughts on any of these items?

1972
02:37:44,800 --> 02:37:50,880
Good evening, President Cy Albert. I'm
the deputy managing director at the K

1973
02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:55,120
County Road Department. I'd like to
answer uh Commissioner Summers's

1974
02:37:52,720 --> 02:38:00,240
questions and why the location was
selected for this uh solar array panels

1975
02:37:57,760 --> 02:38:04,399
going there. The reason that area was
selected is is the the area that you

1976
02:38:02,560 --> 02:38:09,040
commented about that's directly south of
the admill building. We have two drain

1977
02:38:07,120 --> 02:38:14,640
well drain fields there for our septic
system. So we would also incur

1978
02:38:10,960 --> 02:38:18,560
additional charges to relocate that for
that building. And there's that is like

1979
02:38:16,240 --> 02:38:23,520
the ideal spot for draining of the
septic system there. And there's also a

1980
02:38:21,280 --> 02:38:28,080
road uh a railroad easement that
encroaches our property from the south

1981
02:38:25,280 --> 02:38:32,960
to the north and as well as a consumer's
energy rightway there. So there's about

1982
02:38:30,319 --> 02:38:36,560
a 100 foot setback. So we're kind of
pretty tight for space there.

1983
02:38:35,600 --> 02:38:39,760
Thank you.
>> You're welcome. You can't

1984
02:38:38,000 --> 02:38:44,399
» you can't go on the other side of the
building. [snorts]

1985
02:38:41,439 --> 02:38:47,520
» Which which of you couldn't go on the
other side of the building to the east?

1986
02:38:46,800 --> 02:38:52,240
» It would. But
>> then we start talking about location of

1987
02:38:49,520 --> 02:38:56,160
utility services and how long were how
do you dig a trench without directional

1988
02:38:54,240 --> 02:39:00,319
boring incurring a lot of large amount
of costs under a building to get your to

1989
02:38:58,240 --> 02:39:06,240
your electrical service?
It's not really practical

1990
02:39:03,760 --> 02:39:12,080
» to put the solar away in that area. I'm
just trying to warn you about lawsuits.

1991
02:39:08,080 --> 02:39:18,720
If people deny bringing their dogs to a
business and it shuts down and people,

1992
02:39:15,280 --> 02:39:22,319
you know, have issues with what's going
on because if you've read the report

1993
02:39:21,439 --> 02:39:27,120
from them,
>> I have not read that report

1994
02:39:24,240 --> 02:39:31,359
» that they you know, and you've
done all these reports about reflective

1995
02:39:29,120 --> 02:39:34,560
and all this vibration and we're talking
about data centers. Is that the next

1996
02:39:33,280 --> 02:39:41,280
thing is you're going to put a battery
pack to reserve the power too?

1997
02:39:37,760 --> 02:39:47,359
» No, this is solely to offset charges
that we occur yearly for electrical use.

1998
02:39:45,359 --> 02:39:52,319
That's just offset those charges. We
don't intend to sell this anyway. It's

1999
02:39:50,080 --> 02:39:55,920
for for personal use or your I would say
the road department's use.

2000
02:39:53,840 --> 02:40:02,800
» That's not my point. My point is you're
building it as close to anybody

2001
02:39:59,120 --> 02:40:05,600
that you can on your whole property.
If you understand what I'm saying,

2002
02:40:03,840 --> 02:40:11,760
there's a residence in front of it.
There's a business with dogs be behind

2003
02:40:07,840 --> 02:40:17,439
it. The the high frequencies that dogs
can hear is different than what people

2004
02:40:14,240 --> 02:40:23,840
can hear. So, [clears throat]
this is the concern they have is that

2005
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:28,720
there could be high frequency sounds,
which I don't know about them. I've just

2006
02:40:26,960 --> 02:40:33,520
heard about this. I'm just telling you
what the community is community is

2007
02:40:30,880 --> 02:40:41,680
telling me that they don't understand
why your position at where it's at.

2008
02:40:37,280 --> 02:40:46,560
I don't you know I don't see how the
county can't do a little bit of

2009
02:40:43,359 --> 02:40:51,359
diligence to find some place on 30ome
acres of property take it across. Also

2010
02:40:49,680 --> 02:40:56,720
to reference that we do have a master
plan site for our site and if we did

2011
02:40:53,439 --> 02:41:01,040
install this in that area that would
impact any future development or like

2012
02:40:59,280 --> 02:41:03,359
building changes if we ever wanted to
continue to be on that site in the

2013
02:41:02,640 --> 02:41:08,160
future.
>> So then then the solar panels would be

2014
02:41:06,080 --> 02:41:11,920
closer to the new building.
>> No, the solar panels are out of the way.

2015
02:41:10,800 --> 02:41:15,520
That's out of the way.
>> You said future site building new

2016
02:41:14,000 --> 02:41:18,319
building. If you've built the solar
panels,

2017
02:41:16,080 --> 02:41:21,520
» if they're then they'd be closer to the
new building,

2018
02:41:19,200 --> 02:41:26,640
» no there that would they would be in
direct line of any type of construction

2019
02:41:24,080 --> 02:41:30,160
or development in that area. So that's
you know this area was selected because

2020
02:41:28,720 --> 02:41:35,280
it's out of the way. It's out of the
traffic. It's um protected by tree line

2021
02:41:33,280 --> 02:41:39,439
from our surrounding neighbors. It has
the offset necessary to meet the

2022
02:41:37,200 --> 02:41:44,319
requirements for the township. It's in a
very good location that's out of the way

2023
02:41:41,200 --> 02:41:48,399
with very minimal impact to not only the
property but also to the land. I mean

2024
02:41:46,880 --> 02:41:52,920
there's no clearing that has to take
place. It's in a welllo area.

2025
02:41:54,000 --> 02:42:00,720
» Commissioner Woods,
it seems like the representatives for

2026
02:41:58,000 --> 02:42:06,160
the for the road department
do maybe have heard about the letter

2027
02:42:03,920 --> 02:42:09,520
from the concern. Would you be able to
read that and put it into the record or

2028
02:42:08,640 --> 02:42:14,000
is it too long?
>> It's very long. Not that I wouldn't want

2029
02:42:11,359 --> 02:42:18,319
to do it justice. Um, but it is very
long. Um, I forget how many pages. Um,

2030
02:42:16,479 --> 02:42:19,600
and it's very I mean there's key points
to it.

2031
02:42:18,880 --> 02:42:22,560
» Part of the record.
>> It is. It is part of the record. It's

2032
02:42:21,359 --> 02:42:26,960
just
>> whether I guess we have options. Um,

2033
02:42:24,960 --> 02:42:29,760
with all fairness to Mid-American and
the county, they have not seen this,

2034
02:42:28,319 --> 02:42:33,760
right? To be able to probably speak to
all of it maybe um, [clears throat]

2035
02:42:31,200 --> 02:42:38,399
prior to um, I think it came in
yesterday. Um there's some some points

2036
02:42:36,319 --> 02:42:43,040
within it that may be applicable to the
standards. Um commissioners, I don't

2037
02:42:40,880 --> 02:42:48,399
know if you want to give it time. Do you
want to go through the standards? I

2038
02:42:44,479 --> 02:42:52,240
mean, I know it's 9:45. Um but again, I
want to do a due diligence and I also

2039
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:58,479
want to make sure we're preserving the
public comment from doggy that we're

2040
02:42:54,319 --> 02:43:05,720
here, but from doggy spot and play care.
So, what is your thoughts on how to

2041
02:43:01,920 --> 02:43:05,720
proceed? Thank you, Corey.

2042
02:43:09,920 --> 02:43:16,040
Is the doggy daycare in the audience?
>> No.

2043
02:43:18,479 --> 02:43:22,560
» So commissioners been able to see that
letter?

2044
02:43:21,359 --> 02:43:24,080
» Have all the commissioners read the
letter today?

2045
02:43:23,120 --> 02:43:28,399
» I have not seen it.
>> Commissioner

2046
02:43:25,840 --> 02:43:32,399
um Sly has not. Anybody read it?
Commissioner Buller has not.

2047
02:43:30,640 --> 02:43:36,960
» Commissioner Woods has not.
>> I read it. and Commissioner Redmond. So

2048
02:43:35,040 --> 02:43:41,280
half of us had well less than half.
>> Well, I did proves it when we were

2049
02:43:38,720 --> 02:43:45,359
heading over to Lawrence yesterday, but
not enough to showed it to me. Rick,

2050
02:43:44,560 --> 02:43:48,000
» I think you had it.
>> I mean, everybody

2051
02:43:46,640 --> 02:43:52,080
» not enough to
>> All planning commissioners should have

2052
02:43:49,439 --> 02:43:55,840
opportunity to review that as part of
commissioners receive it.

2053
02:43:53,359 --> 02:43:58,560
» No, I did not.
>> I got it as email. It didn't go out as

2054
02:43:57,760 --> 02:44:02,880
an email blast.
>> I didn't check the email.

2055
02:44:01,200 --> 02:44:08,479
I believe everybody has received
>> who sent it who sent the email

2056
02:44:06,160 --> 02:44:12,000
» to the commission. [cough]
>> I'm not sure which one that came from. I

2057
02:44:10,560 --> 02:44:16,880
would have to look back at the emails
and see if it was from something that

2058
02:44:13,920 --> 02:44:21,520
Carl sent, something that Liz or Wayne
had gotten or if it came through my

2059
02:44:19,840 --> 02:44:27,680
email. Most of that does not come
through my email. It goes to in info

2060
02:44:25,200 --> 02:44:31,120
» at Marshall Township. So regardless, I
mean, I think it's the expectation that

2061
02:44:29,439 --> 02:44:35,279
we're all checking email absolutely
every day is, you know, again, I'm not

2062
02:44:32,880 --> 02:44:39,040
going to I have no idea what that system
is for each one of us, but the fact

2063
02:44:37,359 --> 02:44:42,000
remains that not all of us have had the
opportunity to review it. So Rob, do you

2064
02:44:40,640 --> 02:44:45,439
have any thoughts on that?
>> Well, you all should have the

2065
02:44:43,600 --> 02:44:53,359
opportunity to review it. I mean,
whether you review it now um or postpone

2066
02:44:50,240 --> 02:44:57,920
to give yourself a chance, I don't know.
I don't know what it says it whether it

2067
02:44:55,120 --> 02:45:02,399
would impact like a condition on a site
plan or not. I have no idea. But

2068
02:45:00,399 --> 02:45:05,279
» I haven't read it that myself to be able
to tell you that.

2069
02:45:03,040 --> 02:45:09,359
» You know the
you might want to postpone action on the

2070
02:45:07,760 --> 02:45:13,120
site plan until people have had the
opportunity to review. That's

2071
02:45:10,800 --> 02:45:18,000
» and for our even our applicants as well
>> to address the address concerns. Okay.

2072
02:45:16,479 --> 02:45:21,760
» Commissioners,
what is your pleasure related to that?

2073
02:45:20,160 --> 02:45:27,200
» I can speak to a couple of these
comments. Well, thank you. Just hold for

2074
02:45:24,640 --> 02:45:30,160
a second, Dylan. I appreciate it. We
still have not We're in deliberation.

2075
02:45:28,880 --> 02:45:34,760
So,
>> it's all right, commissioners.

2076
02:45:35,279 --> 02:45:41,880
» I may ask a question for the county.
What kind of timeline are you guys on?

2077
02:45:42,000 --> 02:45:46,439
» I was trying to wrap up before the end
of the year.

2078
02:45:46,880 --> 02:45:52,399
What I understood just because it came
from the back of the audience, what I

2079
02:45:49,920 --> 02:45:57,160
heard him say was wrap up by the end of
the year. I think

2080
02:45:59,200 --> 02:46:06,080
» I had this my name is Brandon Kener. I'm
with Var. I'm the project manager um for

2081
02:46:04,399 --> 02:46:09,200
this is just a part of the project that
we're working on for this.

2082
02:46:06,880 --> 02:46:11,600
» So tell me so so how does that relate to
Mid-Americ and

2083
02:46:10,319 --> 02:46:16,240
» they're subcontractor?
>> Okay. Um

2084
02:46:14,560 --> 02:46:20,479
» if we didn't if we weren't going through
this process, we'd have already broke

2085
02:46:17,439 --> 02:46:26,960
ground on the solar. So um it's
significantly impeding the project. Uh

2086
02:46:24,080 --> 02:46:30,160
given the this process was needed, we're
hoping to wrap up the project by the end

2087
02:46:28,319 --> 02:46:32,080
of the year. The solar portion of the
project,

2088
02:46:30,640 --> 02:46:35,600
» you can continue to work through winter
as long as the ground's not frozen.

2089
02:46:33,920 --> 02:46:39,439
» Uh it's ground mount system, but it's
it's pretty quickly erected. So

2090
02:46:37,520 --> 02:46:40,800
» Okay. So we still got some time then.
>> Yeah.

2091
02:46:39,760 --> 02:46:46,960
» Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
>> So, you just made the statement that you

2092
02:46:42,960 --> 02:46:50,800
have went ahead and started activity.
>> No, I said we would have had this not

2093
02:46:49,200 --> 02:46:54,720
been we've gone through the consumer's
approval process. Um, and then this

2094
02:46:54,000 --> 02:46:58,560
issue came up.
>> Thank you. Thank you very much,

2095
02:46:56,399 --> 02:47:01,040
» commissioners.
>> I'd like an opportunity to review the

2096
02:47:00,560 --> 02:47:04,760
letter.
>> Yep.

2097
02:47:01,279 --> 02:47:04,760
» Is there a motion?

2098
02:47:06,319 --> 02:47:14,080
We we table this
>> postpone action till the next meeting.

2099
02:47:11,279 --> 02:47:17,040
» The very next meeting is the 22nd. I
said coming up. Could we do that at the

2100
02:47:15,760 --> 02:47:22,479
special? Uh
>> I that's specifically for the public

2101
02:47:19,760 --> 02:47:27,520
hearing for the master plan. Um
>> yeah regular schedule

2102
02:47:26,000 --> 02:47:29,520
October 20th.
>> Oh gosh. Yeah.

2103
02:47:28,479 --> 02:47:34,399
» Or 21st.
>> October 20th.

2104
02:47:30,800 --> 02:47:38,720
» Oh wow. It's moving way. I mean
certainly it's within your bounds. If do

2105
02:47:36,800 --> 02:47:41,920
you want to take it up on the 22nd as
the first item or something? You can do

2106
02:47:40,479 --> 02:47:44,880
that.
>> I mean that's up to you.

2107
02:47:43,120 --> 02:47:48,479
» I think that would be fair.
>> It's up to you. Somebody make

2108
02:47:46,640 --> 02:47:54,080
» is it how long of a read is it? Is it
five minute 10 minute read?

2109
02:47:51,120 --> 02:47:58,160
» Depends.
>> I I haven't read it fully myself. I feel

2110
02:47:56,960 --> 02:48:01,680
more com frankly I'd feel more
comfortable if we postpone till that's

2111
02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:05,680
just me and we can bring it up for a
vote make a motion and we'll take it

2112
02:48:03,680 --> 02:48:10,240
from there but it's lengthy
>> just a quick question would you have to

2113
02:48:07,600 --> 02:48:14,880
have a public hearing for this or
>> no this is a site plan so

2114
02:48:11,760 --> 02:48:17,279
» I just wanted to check for
>> for advertising we'll [clears throat]

2115
02:48:16,319 --> 02:48:21,920
talk about that later
>> yeah [laughter]

2116
02:48:19,520 --> 02:48:24,240
» um I did you make a motion
>> um

2117
02:48:22,479 --> 02:48:26,960
» I don't think nothing's been made yet
>> okay I'm sorry somebody said still in

2118
02:48:26,319 --> 02:48:31,120
discussion.
>> Okay. Um so Rob, we could move it to the

2119
02:48:30,880 --> 02:48:34,800
to
>> you could set anything you want. So if

2120
02:48:33,200 --> 02:48:38,000
you want to It doesn't require public
hearing. So if you want to set it for

2121
02:48:37,439 --> 02:48:44,560
next meeting.
>> I move that we um postpone action on the

2122
02:48:41,439 --> 02:48:48,160
uh site plan until the [clears throat]
September what is it? 21st

2123
02:48:47,279 --> 02:48:52,399
» 22nd.
>> September 22nd

2124
02:48:49,680 --> 02:48:55,680
» till the second 22nd meeting. Okay. to
give the commission all commissioners

2125
02:48:54,160 --> 02:49:02,319
time to review the
>> about three weeks.

2126
02:48:58,319 --> 02:49:06,479
» The doggy [snorts] daycare and spa
um letter.

2127
02:49:04,960 --> 02:49:10,080
» It would give them an opportunity to
read it and to respond to the doggy

2128
02:49:08,319 --> 02:49:13,040
daycare
letter.

2129
02:49:11,120 --> 02:49:16,279
» I have a motion. Is there a second?
>> I'll second.

2130
02:49:16,640 --> 02:49:23,760
We have a motion by Commissioner Sly,
seconded by Commissioner Woods uh to

2131
02:49:20,479 --> 02:49:30,399
postpone action on the site plan uh for
this item for the county road department

2132
02:49:26,319 --> 02:49:33,760
until September 22nd of 26 and that
meeting is at 7:00.

2133
02:49:32,479 --> 02:49:38,720
» The discussion.
>> Yes.

2134
02:49:34,560 --> 02:49:44,800
» Did the letter come in time for us to
consider or did it miss a deadline that

2135
02:49:42,000 --> 02:49:49,439
should have been here? They have the
people have the ability to present it as

2136
02:49:46,800 --> 02:49:52,399
of the meeting. So, as long as it's here
before

2137
02:49:50,319 --> 02:49:56,399
» you sit down and convene.
>> It dated the 27th.

2138
02:49:54,240 --> 02:49:59,520
» Yeah. Dated the I'm sorry, Commissioner.
The 27th.

2139
02:49:57,680 --> 02:50:04,479
» The only thing I'll add is I really
wanted to have our meeting on the 22nd

2140
02:50:02,399 --> 02:50:08,720
to be devoted to the master plan to be
very honest. Um it's it's these are

2141
02:50:07,200 --> 02:50:15,760
lengthy meetings as you can see even
this evening. Um but um I'll just leave

2142
02:50:12,560 --> 02:50:19,439
it at that. So we have a motion. Um I'm
not going to do a roll call vote. Um we

2143
02:50:17,600 --> 02:50:23,920
have a motion um on the table. Any
further discussion?

2144
02:50:22,080 --> 02:50:32,080
» I think it's important that that we
review everything. Um if

2145
02:50:28,880 --> 02:50:39,200
if we don't feel that the 22nd is a is
the time to um take action on it, I I

2146
02:50:36,720 --> 02:50:42,399
would be willing to amend my motion to
to a different date.

2147
02:50:40,479 --> 02:50:48,000
» I think we have a motion and a second. I
think we'll go ahead and call the vote

2148
02:50:43,840 --> 02:50:52,479
if that's okay. I think if we
>> put the review

2149
02:50:50,479 --> 02:50:56,880
first topic
before we go into the master plan knock

2150
02:50:55,120 --> 02:51:02,760
that out because we know the master plan
is the major activity for that evening

2151
02:51:02,800 --> 02:51:07,520
agree
>> okay

2152
02:51:05,920 --> 02:51:11,120
I'm hearing is that we'd have that
towards the first thing on the business

2153
02:51:09,920 --> 02:51:14,880
unfinished business
>> okay

2154
02:51:12,479 --> 02:51:17,520
» all right with that Um, all those in
favor signify by saying I.

2155
02:51:16,640 --> 02:51:22,479
» I.
>> All those opposed, same sign. I

2156
02:51:20,240 --> 02:51:27,040
» And motion carries.
>> So, um, we please, I think you've just

2157
02:51:24,880 --> 02:51:31,279
received a copy, right, of the hard
copy. I'm sure we can email it out to

2158
02:51:28,880 --> 02:51:36,800
you as well. Um, do ask that you review
it and plan on, uh, the 22nd at 7:00.

2159
02:51:34,720 --> 02:51:42,160
And, um, appreciate if you want to write
comments in ahead of time. Um, whatever

2160
02:51:39,520 --> 02:51:45,439
you choose to do. Um, appreciate it.
Thank you for being here till 10 o'clock

2161
02:51:43,920 --> 02:51:51,520
at night.
>> Thanks. All right, I gotta find my page,

2162
02:51:49,200 --> 02:51:56,160
guys. I'm sorry. Uh, moving on to um
unfinished business. Do I did I skip

2163
02:51:54,000 --> 02:52:01,200
anything? I don't think I did. Uh,
moving on to unfinished business. We had

2164
02:51:58,399 --> 02:52:06,720
a presentation at our meeting on August
4th, I believe it was, from Next Era

2165
02:52:04,160 --> 02:52:12,800
Serial City for consideration of the
pollinator fields in lie of trees. Um,

2166
02:52:10,000 --> 02:52:20,240
we put on the agenda what our March 3rd,
2026 PC meeting, um, action was. Um, and

2167
02:52:18,240 --> 02:52:23,600
commissioners, uh, I know it's getting
to the late hour here of whether or not

2168
02:52:21,760 --> 02:52:29,200
you want to act on this now. We want to
postpone. Um, really, I think next year

2169
02:52:27,200 --> 02:52:33,920
Serial City, I think this is even in the
administrator's report is wants to know

2170
02:52:31,439 --> 02:52:39,640
what it is, you know, what what would we
like to do as a commission to relate to

2171
02:52:36,160 --> 02:52:39,640
address this issue?

2172
02:52:42,399 --> 02:52:50,319
Well, I made the motion before that we
reduce the number of trees from 700 to

2173
02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:56,160
300, and I think we should just stick by
that. They can put the pollinator fields

2174
02:52:53,279 --> 02:53:02,720
in wherever they want, but the I think I
think the intent of the of the um trees

2175
02:52:59,760 --> 02:53:07,760
and shrubs is to screen. And I don't
think a pollinator field does that. and

2176
02:53:05,040 --> 02:53:13,120
I they they agreed to they agreed to the
amendment to the to the site plan. So I

2177
02:53:10,640 --> 02:53:18,000
think I think we're being more than
accommodating by reducing the number of

2178
02:53:15,040 --> 02:53:21,680
trees from 700 to 300.
>> So I it's my feeling we just stick with

2179
02:53:21,040 --> 02:53:26,720
that.
>> Their pollinator field is going to be

2180
02:53:24,560 --> 02:53:31,600
uped and plowed under when this when
their project is done and you know

2181
02:53:29,200 --> 02:53:38,279
reached its life was the trees going to
be more of an everlap everlasting

2182
02:53:35,279 --> 02:53:38,279
feature.

2183
02:53:38,399 --> 02:53:43,520
» Shel,
>> I suggest we find a different place for

2184
02:53:41,359 --> 02:53:47,279
those 300 trees because the landscape
architect has told us time and time

2185
02:53:45,200 --> 02:53:52,240
again that we really don't have a place
out there to put 300 additional trees.

2186
02:53:50,080 --> 02:53:57,439
We could consider contracting with a
different architect to see if maybe they

2187
02:53:54,960 --> 02:54:02,479
can come up with a different location.
But the architect that was used for this

2188
02:53:59,760 --> 02:54:06,880
project has stated and put it in writing
that there are no other places that he

2189
02:54:04,720 --> 02:54:09,760
could find to put the trees on the
property.

2190
02:54:09,335 --> 02:54:13,279
[clears throat]
>> Hus

2191
02:54:11,680 --> 02:54:18,399
concern because that that keeps on
coming up and [snorts] it seems like

2192
02:54:16,000 --> 02:54:26,160
next year has tried to find some place
to put these trees. The pro the adjacent

2193
02:54:21,600 --> 02:54:29,680
property owners do not want them.
It's hard to force them to take them

2194
02:54:28,240 --> 02:54:33,439
because it's their property. Once again,
we get back into that.

2195
02:54:31,600 --> 02:54:39,520
» Dr. Steely is not going to let you put
threes on his property.

2196
02:54:36,319 --> 02:54:46,319
Well, here's my comments on this is um I
don't I I'm way past the point of I

2197
02:54:42,560 --> 02:54:52,479
understand um that based on our current
landscape architect, which is fine, that

2198
02:54:48,560 --> 02:54:58,000
there's no room to put them for further
screening based on the type of tree or

2199
02:54:54,720 --> 02:55:02,720
whatever all those reasons are, but I
think we haven't done our due diligence

2200
02:55:00,240 --> 02:55:06,479
to potentially see if there are other
property owners than those that did not

2201
02:55:04,399 --> 02:55:13,760
want them potenti potentially that would
want a tree somewhere in their yard um

2202
02:55:11,520 --> 02:55:18,720
to be given that opportunity. That's
that's where I I sit with it. And

2203
02:55:16,801 --> 02:55:22,560
[clears throat] is it can we help as a
township to reach out to the residents

2204
02:55:20,720 --> 02:55:29,439
to try to figure that out? Of course,
we've said that all along. Um but um

2205
02:55:27,680 --> 02:55:33,520
I don't think just saying that we're not
going to give you 300 trees is

2206
02:55:30,960 --> 02:55:35,760
acceptable. That's just right.
>> I think there was another comment on on

2207
02:55:35,120 --> 02:55:40,080
dollars.
>> Can we just ask for a monetary amount

2208
02:55:37,359 --> 02:55:43,840
and get this over with?
>> I'd be in favor of that.

2209
02:55:41,040 --> 02:55:48,800
» I I agree. I mean, this needs to be
over. I don't believe the idea that they

2210
02:55:46,479 --> 02:55:54,080
talked to the residents. They didn't
talk to my kids. They didn't talk to the

2211
02:55:51,920 --> 02:55:56,080
halfway house that's across the street
>> to go out and talk to them that I know

2212
02:55:55,600 --> 02:56:00,640
of.
>> Right. I I know. I understand that. And

2213
02:55:58,479 --> 02:56:06,640
And I've told the community people that
say it. I go, "Come on down to a meeting

2214
02:56:03,520 --> 02:56:11,279
and tell us we want trees. Here I am.
Here's my name. Send me less trees."

2215
02:56:08,960 --> 02:56:16,560
They don't come and do that. So
>> I, you know, I think that maybe just get

2216
02:56:14,399 --> 02:56:21,120
a payoff, be done with it. We're
spending so much time on this that it's

2217
02:56:18,560 --> 02:56:27,359
silly. I don't want to see him rewarded
by saying

2218
02:56:23,680 --> 02:56:32,479
bees are nicer than trees. It's just
silly, you know. But get

2219
02:56:29,040 --> 02:56:36,800
» pollinator fields in solar um commercial
solar areas are becoming very very

2220
02:56:34,960 --> 02:56:41,200
popular right now. This is just
something that Next automatically is

2221
02:56:38,800 --> 02:56:45,359
doing part of their due diligence when
they're out there putting them in. It

2222
02:56:43,040 --> 02:56:50,960
was an idea because we couldn't come to
another resolution. When this one was

2223
02:56:48,000 --> 02:56:54,800
presented I did mention, you know, this
is taking too long. I don't think we're

2224
02:56:52,319 --> 02:56:59,600
going to ever come to a resolution. What
about the option of something monetarily

2225
02:56:57,439 --> 02:57:06,080
coming to the township? Unless the
township can figure out 300 a place to

2226
02:57:01,840 --> 02:57:12,560
put 300 trees, a variety of on some of
the parcels around here, I I don't see a

2227
02:57:09,200 --> 02:57:17,120
way to get it out there.
>> I'd be agreeable to that to a monetary

2228
02:57:15,760 --> 02:57:19,279
solution. And who's
>> in conjunction with the pollinator

2229
02:57:18,720 --> 02:57:21,600
fields?
>> Huh?

2230
02:57:20,080 --> 02:57:25,520
» In conjunction with the pollinator
fields [clears throat]

2231
02:57:23,200 --> 02:57:29,680
» or are they doing those?
>> I believe they voted against them or

2232
02:57:27,680 --> 02:57:31,040
didn't want them out there.
>> What?

2233
02:57:30,000 --> 02:57:34,000
» I'm sorry. What are we talking about?
What? Who does

2234
02:57:31,920 --> 02:57:36,000
» in He's saying instead of the
pollinator?

2235
02:57:34,399 --> 02:57:39,120
» No, I think you're saying monetary and
pollinator fields.

2236
02:57:37,040 --> 02:57:42,240
» Yeah.
>> Commissioner Wood. Sorry.

2237
02:57:40,479 --> 02:57:47,040
» I guess I don't understand what our
decision. We have nothing to do with

2238
02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:51,439
whether they plant pollinator
shrubs and trees and stuff on their

2239
02:57:48,960 --> 02:57:57,040
property. It's their property. The the
plan showed out in the middle of the

2240
02:57:54,479 --> 02:58:01,359
properties where they put little plots
with these wild flowers and stuff are

2241
02:57:59,040 --> 02:58:04,960
pollinating. They have all the right to
do that whenever they want.

2242
02:58:03,359 --> 02:58:10,080
» This is something they wanted to present
to try and come to an agreement so that

2243
02:58:08,000 --> 02:58:14,720
this is not hanging out there and we
continue to talk about it month after

2244
02:58:11,680 --> 02:58:18,560
month. So if commissioners it's it's our
opportunity you can make a motion

2245
02:58:16,640 --> 02:58:22,720
whatever that might be whatever you
would would like. The only thought

2246
02:58:20,640 --> 02:58:26,960
process that I will have again um we're
you discussing we don't have a motion

2247
02:58:24,160 --> 02:58:31,279
but is whether or not um if we're going
to do monetary who's going to figure out

2248
02:58:29,120 --> 02:58:35,200
what that is or maybe Shelley already
has an idea on that like on what trees

2249
02:58:33,520 --> 02:58:38,720
there they were and how much they would
be that would include what the tree the

2250
02:58:37,359 --> 02:58:42,800
labor everything that they would have
otherwise done you know [clears throat]

2251
02:58:41,200 --> 02:58:45,359
just come up with a number
>> we have a public

2252
02:58:43,760 --> 02:58:48,880
» I'm sorry we're not in public comment
time

2253
02:58:46,479 --> 02:58:52,000
» Shelley do do you have any inclination
what would be Okay.

2254
02:58:50,000 --> 02:58:56,399
» I was given some figures by the
landscape architect which I am not going

2255
02:58:53,840 --> 02:58:59,600
to utilize. We will need to get our own
figures from somewhere.

2256
02:58:58,000 --> 02:59:02,479
» Okay.
Would you be willing to negotiate with

2257
02:59:01,680 --> 02:59:06,399
them?
>> I

2258
02:59:04,399 --> 02:59:11,760
can I'm not going to go out and call
landscape companies and try and find

2259
02:59:08,560 --> 02:59:18,000
out. That will be next era's job to do.
>> Leave this to an administrative function

2260
02:59:14,399 --> 02:59:22,080
and be done with it. Uh as a board just
pass it on. Let Shel handle it.

2261
02:59:19,840 --> 02:59:25,279
» You could certainly make that motion.
Whatever.

2262
02:59:23,120 --> 02:59:28,240
» She doesn't want it.
>> I could [clears throat] We can come to

2263
02:59:26,800 --> 02:59:33,920
an agreement. Obviously, I'd have to
bring it to someone at the township when

2264
02:59:31,520 --> 02:59:38,080
they decide what monetary amount they're
going to give us if they will do so

2265
02:59:36,319 --> 02:59:41,520
because I can't make that decision
myself. So, it would have to go to

2266
02:59:40,080 --> 02:59:44,319
somebody.
>> And where does it go, too? Like, is it

2267
02:59:43,120 --> 02:59:46,080
going in the general budget? I mean,
that's none of my business. I'm just

2268
02:59:45,520 --> 02:59:48,640
saying.
>> That's what I'm thinking. That's what

2269
02:59:47,120 --> 02:59:53,200
I'm thinking is like and where does it
go? Right.

2270
02:59:50,399 --> 02:59:58,479
» Some sort of [snorts] charity um
function or something. Some sort of give

2271
02:59:55,920 --> 03:00:02,479
back to community type thing.
>> It might come up, you know, somewhere

2272
03:00:00,560 --> 03:00:04,560
sometimes
for a park.

2273
03:00:03,040 --> 03:00:08,560
» Maybe [clears throat] the board can
figure that out, right?

2274
03:00:06,800 --> 03:00:12,319
» To local residents
>> if they would.

2275
03:00:10,240 --> 03:00:16,080
» It concerns me as a condition to be
telling them that they have to pay you

2276
03:00:13,840 --> 03:00:20,319
money instead of doing some function.
that was approved site plan.

2277
03:00:17,680 --> 03:00:23,040
» Yeah. Um
>> I'm just throwing that out there.

2278
03:00:21,600 --> 03:00:28,080
» Okay. Is everybody Did everybody hear
what um Rob just mentioned?

2279
03:00:25,200 --> 03:00:31,439
» No. I think that it concerns me a bit to
say you don't have to do something on

2280
03:00:29,520 --> 03:00:34,319
the site plan in exchange you can pay us
some money.

2281
03:00:32,399 --> 03:00:38,960
» I I don't think that you can just say
that. I mean they can offer it up,

2282
03:00:37,200 --> 03:00:45,040
» right? You could say you're not allowing
the trees and maybe allow um uh the

2283
03:00:42,560 --> 03:00:50,399
zoning administrator to negotiate, you
know, whatever uh the best that she can

2284
03:00:48,160 --> 03:00:55,200
for the township in lie of the trees.
But I don't think you can demand that

2285
03:00:52,960 --> 03:00:59,439
they pay you money uh for not putting
the trees. You don't have a ordinance in

2286
03:00:57,200 --> 03:01:04,000
that. some places like if they remove
trees, require them to replace trees or

2287
03:01:01,760 --> 03:01:09,520
pay into a tree fund, things of that
sort, but those are even difficult

2288
03:01:06,319 --> 03:01:15,760
ordinances to to have. Um, so I'm
concerned that we just don't say, "Oh,

2289
03:01:11,040 --> 03:01:20,240
they have to pay us instead of uh the
requirement." They can certainly offer

2290
03:01:17,279 --> 03:01:26,160
and say we we're willing to pay you x
amount, you know, for into your general

2291
03:01:23,520 --> 03:01:30,080
fund or towards parks or whatever it
might be. There you go.

2292
03:01:27,520 --> 03:01:33,680
» Um, in exchange, you know, and then we
don't have to do the trees,

2293
03:01:32,000 --> 03:01:35,359
» but that would have to be offer from
them.

2294
03:01:34,080 --> 03:01:40,399
» Did they offer?
>> No.

2295
03:01:37,200 --> 03:01:45,200
» Earlier in conversation back a year or
so ago, whatever, when

2296
03:01:43,760 --> 03:01:52,160
we [snorts] made the agreement not to
put trees around Staley's property,

2297
03:01:48,560 --> 03:01:58,880
» the house next door was gave $5,000. And
I I was told this I haven't seen it in

2298
03:01:54,640 --> 03:02:04,000
paperwork that they gave her $5,000
instead of putting the trees up. So they

2299
03:02:02,399 --> 03:02:09,200
have started the precedence. I don't
know if I can find documentation of it.

2300
03:02:07,040 --> 03:02:13,920
» Speaking of Mrs. Staley, they did give
her some a check. I do not believe it

2301
03:02:11,840 --> 03:02:17,680
was 5,000. She was supposed to go and
buy her own trees and have them planted.

2302
03:02:16,000 --> 03:02:22,640
She has chosen not to do so.
>> Right. Yep. [snorts] I guess that's what

2303
03:02:20,479 --> 03:02:24,960
I was referring to.
>> Okay,

2304
03:02:24,160 --> 03:02:29,359
commissioners.
>> Yeah, I mean they could choose to pay

2305
03:02:27,840 --> 03:02:33,359
the property owners, surrounding
property owners for planting of the

2306
03:02:31,680 --> 03:02:36,319
trees and then it's on them whether or
not they do it. Like you said, they paid

2307
03:02:35,040 --> 03:02:40,000
that person
>> and they just chose to

2308
03:02:38,080 --> 03:02:42,399
» was that she was supposed to have those
trees planted. That's the only reason

2309
03:02:41,680 --> 03:02:46,240
she got them.
>> Yeah, those are private private

2310
03:02:44,479 --> 03:02:49,359
arrangements. I mean, not anything we
can dictate really of what you want

2311
03:02:48,756 --> 03:02:52,720
[clears throat] somebody else's
property. [snorts]

2312
03:02:50,319 --> 03:02:57,040
» Yeah.
>> But what if we ask for a credit for

2313
03:02:55,040 --> 03:03:01,920
future
>> use? Just leave the credit with them.

2314
03:03:00,546 --> 03:03:03,920
[sighs]
>> This is getting to be

2315
03:03:03,040 --> 03:03:07,359
» to their escro.
>> This is getting to be

2316
03:03:05,600 --> 03:03:11,439
» I I would think that probably the best
thing is if you still want to consider

2317
03:03:08,960 --> 03:03:16,160
this issue, table it. go back to them
and say, "Hey, what would you know

2318
03:03:13,920 --> 03:03:20,000
negotiate with them as to what they
might be able to do instead of the

2319
03:03:18,160 --> 03:03:24,000
trees?"
>> And and they said, "What? A pollinator

2320
03:03:21,840 --> 03:03:28,319
» pollinator field."
>> Originally, they had agreed. Originally,

2321
03:03:26,399 --> 03:03:34,000
we said 300 trees. They said, "Yes,
we'll give you 300 trees." the township

2322
03:03:31,439 --> 03:03:38,560
wanted them to
>> deliver them to the individuals and

2323
03:03:36,160 --> 03:03:42,560
plant them at the residence and that was
not something that could be coordinated

2324
03:03:40,960 --> 03:03:46,160
very well through any kind of a
landscape company or anything. So then

2325
03:03:44,720 --> 03:03:48,880
they come up with the idea of the
pollinator fields.

2326
03:03:48,319 --> 03:03:52,640
» So I think
>> as a new alternative

2327
03:03:50,160 --> 03:03:56,560
» I think I think in all fairness though
should we at least respond to whether we

2328
03:03:54,479 --> 03:04:00,640
want pollinator fields or not? Either
say yes or no to that too. I mean they

2329
03:03:58,479 --> 03:04:06,479
did a presentation Do we want to at
least answer that and then postpone

2330
03:04:02,479 --> 03:04:10,000
action to try to as Rob suggested
>> because if it's part of your site plan

2331
03:04:08,240 --> 03:04:13,680
or part of the approval that they need
to do these trees then you're going to

2332
03:04:11,920 --> 03:04:16,880
have to amend that as a planning
commission and remove it

2333
03:04:15,120 --> 03:04:24,160
» if it's a condition.
>> Um so I would postpone it for now and I

2334
03:04:21,840 --> 03:04:27,359
I I don't know enough about it. I know.
No, I know. I know. And then we don't

2335
03:04:25,920 --> 03:04:29,200
want to put you on the spot on this
whole issue as you're sitting here next

2336
03:04:28,800 --> 03:04:32,479
to us.
>> I know that we can't just say pay us

2337
03:04:30,800 --> 03:04:35,680
money and you know to do it
>> or we have to amend the site plan

2338
03:04:34,479 --> 03:04:38,640
because it was in the site plan.
>> Right.

2339
03:04:37,359 --> 03:04:44,160
» Okay.
>> Make a motion to amend to give Shel time

2340
03:04:41,200 --> 03:04:50,240
to come up with a plan to bring back to
the planning commission for

2341
03:04:47,120 --> 03:04:53,240
uh for amendment to the site plan and
resolution.

2342
03:04:54,479 --> 03:05:00,240
Is that too?
>> Commissioner Biller, I for clarificate.

2343
03:04:59,600 --> 03:05:05,920
» Yeah, clarify.
>> Clarification of that motion. Are you

2344
03:05:02,399 --> 03:05:11,680
saying um that you are um requesting
that the zoning administrator

2345
03:05:08,880 --> 03:05:16,133
um propose an amendment to the site plan
and remove the trees?

2346
03:05:13,680 --> 03:05:19,279
I'm suggesting that that we
[clears throat]

2347
03:05:16,800 --> 03:05:25,359
and have the zoning administrator
um

2348
03:05:21,600 --> 03:05:30,680
» come back with some final some
>> new

2349
03:05:27,680 --> 03:05:30,680
project

2350
03:05:31,040 --> 03:05:37,040
discussions with the next
[laughter]

2351
03:05:34,960 --> 03:05:40,319
» so postpone the action and come up with
some other ideas.

2352
03:05:37,920 --> 03:05:42,960
» Yeah. Yep. Exactly.
>> I got a question.

2353
03:05:41,520 --> 03:05:45,040
» Okay. Wait. Is there a mo is there?
That's the motion. Does anybody want to

2354
03:05:44,399 --> 03:05:49,200
second it?
>> That's the motion.

2355
03:05:46,240 --> 03:05:52,319
» I think the motion was to postpone
action and allow our zoning

2356
03:05:50,800 --> 03:05:55,439
administrator
opportunity to come up with other

2357
03:05:53,520 --> 03:06:01,399
options.
>> That's exactly what I said.

2358
03:05:58,399 --> 03:06:01,399
» Okay,

2359
03:06:02,479 --> 03:06:05,760
» just keep going.
>> Another option.

2360
03:06:04,560 --> 03:06:09,840
» Energizer Bunny.
>> How many we going to have?

2361
03:06:07,920 --> 03:06:13,760
» Is Was there a second or did I No,
there's no second.

2362
03:06:10,800 --> 03:06:18,000
» Second. Oh, the Steves. Okay, we've got
Steve Buller and Steve Riggs.

2363
03:06:16,720 --> 03:06:22,720
Commissioner Riggs, Commissioner
Commissioner Buller, Commissioner Riggs.

2364
03:06:19,600 --> 03:06:27,600
And the motion is to postpone action
this evening and allow time for our

2365
03:06:24,880 --> 03:06:31,319
zoning administrator to work with next
year on other options.

2366
03:06:32,000 --> 03:06:42,000
So for my own clarification that does
that mean no to the pollinator fields?

2367
03:06:39,279 --> 03:06:46,479
» Discussion
Yeah, I didn't I didn't care for it.

2368
03:06:44,399 --> 03:06:49,600
That could lead to that, but
>> So, we still want that on the table.

2369
03:06:48,080 --> 03:06:52,880
» Wait a minute. Are we in the are we in
the discussion phase?

2370
03:06:50,720 --> 03:06:59,120
» Yes. Sorry. You have a motion. Second.
>> I have [clears throat] a question for

2371
03:06:53,680 --> 03:07:05,439
Rob then. If I understood Rob correctly
that anything other than the trees would

2372
03:07:01,359 --> 03:07:10,399
require a site plan amendment. Correct.
So a pollinator field in li of the trees

2373
03:07:08,399 --> 03:07:12,319
would we would have to do a site plan
amendment.

2374
03:07:10,880 --> 03:07:16,240
» Sounds like the pollinator field was
already on the site plan.

2375
03:07:14,034 --> 03:07:18,080
[clears throat] No no no no.
>> Okay.

2376
03:07:16,720 --> 03:07:23,040
» No.
>> Yeah. So if you wanted to do uh you know

2377
03:07:20,720 --> 03:07:25,359
then that should be part of your site
plan approval.

2378
03:07:23,920 --> 03:07:29,600
» Sure. [laughter]
>> Well yeah. So so actually even if we

2379
03:07:27,840 --> 03:07:33,279
approve the pollinator fields we've
still got to come back and

2380
03:07:30,720 --> 03:07:36,560
» any would be a review. If you approve
the pollinator field, that would be an

2381
03:07:34,960 --> 03:07:40,240
amendment to the site plan.
>> So, right now, what you're really

2382
03:07:38,000 --> 03:07:42,960
considering are amendments to [snorts]
the plan. Okay.

2383
03:07:41,439 --> 03:07:46,319
» You know, whether you don't require the
trees allow a pollinator field, but that

2384
03:07:45,040 --> 03:07:52,000
doesn't sound like something that you
really like that concept. I mean, that

2385
03:07:49,840 --> 03:07:55,040
was just kind of what I was hearing.
>> Amendment no matter what we do,

2386
03:07:53,439 --> 03:07:58,479
» right? And so then you're saying the
motion is to send Shel back to tell

2387
03:07:56,880 --> 03:08:02,000
them, "Yeah, we really don't like the
pollinator idea in exchange for the

2388
03:08:00,160 --> 03:08:07,279
trees. Can you come up with a different
idea? And then see what they say.

2389
03:08:05,600 --> 03:08:10,479
» This is this is getting to be so long
and drawn out situation. I don't think

2390
03:08:09,520 --> 03:08:16,399
we're ever going to come to it.
>> We're not in a position to to them. It's

2391
03:08:13,760 --> 03:08:19,359
it's going to have to be done outside of
this board.

2392
03:08:17,760 --> 03:08:23,465
» Well, they can just they can come up
with other solutions.

2393
03:08:21,600 --> 03:08:27,680
» They have you have to comply and put
[clears throat] in the trees or you have

2394
03:08:24,800 --> 03:08:32,000
to release that as a condition the trees
without them here to make the offer.

2395
03:08:30,160 --> 03:08:34,880
been talking about this for how many
years now?

2396
03:08:32,479 --> 03:08:39,279
» Yeah. And I think it's time to
>> I don't I'm inclined to just accept the

2397
03:08:37,600 --> 03:08:41,439
pollinator [laughter] fields
>> because I don't think [clears throat]

2398
03:08:39,920 --> 03:08:44,880
we're ever going to come to a conclusion
with trees.

2399
03:08:42,560 --> 03:08:51,040
» I don't I I don't think logistically
it's going to do get 300 and have them

2400
03:08:48,640 --> 03:08:54,399
distributed. I don't I don't who in the
township is going to do all that? You

2401
03:08:52,720 --> 03:08:57,920
know, I'm thinking with with all the
development that's going to be going on

2402
03:08:56,000 --> 03:09:01,600
shortly, we're going to have some area
we're going to want to buffer. something

2403
03:09:00,160 --> 03:09:04,240
that wasn't thought of that
>> we can buffer the properties down here.

2404
03:09:03,760 --> 03:09:07,200
» Sure.
>> 425 to the city. They'll end up with the

2405
03:09:06,479 --> 03:09:08,479
trees.
>> Yeah.

2406
03:09:07,520 --> 03:09:11,439
» Plant all kinds of trees.
>> That or or

2407
03:09:10,240 --> 03:09:15,720
» had the idea.
>> Oh, Richard had the idea, too.

2408
03:09:15,920 --> 03:09:23,040
» Yeah. And again, like if they if you're
saying that they have to provide you

2409
03:09:19,920 --> 03:09:28,240
these trees to buffer somewhere else
that um they're going to have to tell us

2410
03:09:26,080 --> 03:09:33,040
that because you can't condition that.
You can't make a developer

2411
03:09:30,160 --> 03:09:38,080
» do public improvements outside of the
>> sightines. So they're going to have to

2412
03:09:35,680 --> 03:09:40,880
tell us that be okay with them to do
something like that.

2413
03:09:39,439 --> 03:09:44,160
» And maybe they would agree to
>> but it'd be okay to ask.

2414
03:09:42,800 --> 03:09:48,160
» Yeah, you could ask them, but they'd
have to be their agree. They have to say

2415
03:09:45,920 --> 03:09:52,080
they we can't require that. We have no
ability to require that.

2416
03:09:50,080 --> 03:09:55,680
» I missed that. I apologize for stepping
away. My only thought process I think

2417
03:09:54,080 --> 03:09:57,600
we're still on the motion to postpone,
right? That's a discussion.

2418
03:09:57,120 --> 03:10:03,200
» Yeah.
>> Is um

2419
03:09:59,680 --> 03:10:08,000
» if we're not going to put them where
their purpose was intended, even with

2420
03:10:05,040 --> 03:10:12,880
the site plan related to the solar or
the people around the solar, then I'm

2421
03:10:10,800 --> 03:10:16,960
not supportive of putting them
elsewhere.

2422
03:10:14,960 --> 03:10:20,640
» Yeah. I mean to me and I'm new to this
whole issue which seems like it's gone

2423
03:10:19,359 --> 03:10:24,479
for a while
>> but if you don't want them to put in the

2424
03:10:22,479 --> 03:10:28,479
trees then the simple solution is just
to amend it and not make sight

2425
03:10:26,399 --> 03:10:31,920
» put in the additional trees and if they
want to do pollinator

2426
03:10:30,319 --> 03:10:34,080
» if they're allowed to maybe they're
required to by the site plan I don't

2427
03:10:33,359 --> 03:10:39,520
know if it's in there
>> can I withdraw my motion in in lie of

2428
03:10:37,120 --> 03:10:43,439
Mr. flies. If you agree, you can do a
friendly amendment.

2429
03:10:40,399 --> 03:10:48,040
» Amendment. Friendly. Has to be friendly.
>> I'd like to re withdraw my motion.

2430
03:10:49,439 --> 03:10:55,359
» Is there an amendment to it or do you
agree to

2431
03:10:54,560 --> 03:10:58,080
» I don't [clears throat] I'm just saying
I'm ready to be done with it because I

2432
03:10:56,800 --> 03:11:01,760
don't think we're going to ever be able
to come to an agreement on trees, all

2433
03:11:00,399 --> 03:11:06,960
the logistics of it.
>> The waters are too muddy, you know,

2434
03:11:04,720 --> 03:11:10,800
at this point. I mean, we've been going
on about this for months and months, and

2435
03:11:09,120 --> 03:11:13,040
Shel's put a lot of work into it, and we
still haven't come to a

2436
03:11:11,840 --> 03:11:17,439
» long before I came on the board
>> where we could come to an agreement. I'm

2437
03:11:14,800 --> 03:11:21,439
I'm inclined to just uh move that we
accept the pollinator fields and be done

2438
03:11:19,200 --> 03:11:24,960
with it.
>> Okay. Wait a minute.

2439
03:11:22,319 --> 03:11:26,640
» So,
would that require a site plan

2440
03:11:26,240 --> 03:11:30,399
amendment?
>> It is, but that is what your motion.

2441
03:11:29,200 --> 03:11:33,439
» Yeah. Okay. I move.
>> Why would we need why would we need a

2442
03:11:31,760 --> 03:11:38,240
site plan for them to plant something on
their property?

2443
03:11:35,439 --> 03:11:41,600
anything they do uh they're bound by
their site plan. It sounds like this is

2444
03:11:39,920 --> 03:11:44,960
already part of the site plan.
>> No, no, the pollinator fields itself but

2445
03:11:43,920 --> 03:11:48,800
the trees.
>> The trees. So, we got to amend the site

2446
03:11:47,279 --> 03:11:52,319
plan to do away with the trees.
>> And if you and they've offered up that

2447
03:11:50,240 --> 03:11:54,960
they will do a pollinator if you want
them to.

2448
03:11:53,279 --> 03:11:59,120
» Yeah. And and due to the fact that the
owners where the trees were going to go

2449
03:11:56,720 --> 03:12:06,080
don't want them. I mean, we were we were
doing the trees to protect them to begin

2450
03:12:01,359 --> 03:12:06,080
with. Those owners don't want them.

2451
03:12:06,399 --> 03:12:11,120
Okay, Shel.
>> Shel,

2452
03:12:08,560 --> 03:12:18,560
» the prior zoning administrator
determined that these trees could be

2453
03:12:14,960 --> 03:12:24,240
relocated on the property somewhere
else. Since that zoning administrator

2454
03:12:21,920 --> 03:12:28,399
made that determination, can I make the
determination that we can remove those

2455
03:12:26,000 --> 03:12:33,840
700 trees from the site plan or does it
have to go back through planning

2456
03:12:30,160 --> 03:12:38,240
commission? Well, I think I think the
planning comm I don't know what your

2457
03:12:36,160 --> 03:12:43,040
ability as an administrative approval
under your zoning ordinance is. Do you

2458
03:12:40,319 --> 03:12:44,720
have administrative ability to amend
site plans?

2459
03:12:43,840 --> 03:12:49,040
» Yes.
>> Yeah. There's different levels of

2460
03:12:47,439 --> 03:12:53,920
previous zoning administrator determined
that he had the authority to amend the

2461
03:12:51,200 --> 03:13:00,000
site plan and make that determination.
So, I'm wondering if I had that same

2462
03:12:57,600 --> 03:13:02,399
» administrative authority. It's the same
ordinance

2463
03:13:00,560 --> 03:13:05,920
» and then it it is the same ordinance and
then it doesn't go through planning

2464
03:13:04,399 --> 03:13:11,279
commission. Correct.
>> Right. Because you're making

2465
03:13:07,359 --> 03:13:14,880
administrative uh review or
determination.

2466
03:13:13,359 --> 03:13:18,960
» The only thing that I'll share with that
is,

2467
03:13:16,560 --> 03:13:22,880
you know, I Shel can correct me on this,
but in our zoning ordinance, it's got

2468
03:13:20,640 --> 03:13:28,880
like a one and a two or an A and a B or
whatever it is. you know, to agree to

2469
03:13:26,560 --> 03:13:32,640
not have 700 trees as part of a site
plan,

2470
03:13:29,920 --> 03:13:35,520
» maybe a major revision that should come
for but it's right here.

2471
03:13:34,080 --> 03:13:37,040
» It's done now though. It's done now,
right?

2472
03:13:35,840 --> 03:13:39,520
» And it's been done.
>> The previous administr uh some

2473
03:13:38,880 --> 03:13:42,720
administrator.
>> So, I think you're so

2474
03:13:41,040 --> 03:13:46,479
» you're deal with the issue right now. I
mean, if the motion Did you make a

2475
03:13:45,040 --> 03:13:47,120
motion? I'm not sure if you made a
motion.

2476
03:13:46,880 --> 03:13:52,880
» Yes.
>> Oh, what was the motion? Sorry, I didn't

2477
03:13:48,720 --> 03:13:57,439
write. I move [clears throat]
I [snorts] don't know how I stated it. I

2478
03:13:54,880 --> 03:14:03,680
I move that we
uh accept the pollinator fields as a

2479
03:14:00,000 --> 03:14:09,200
site plan amendment in lie of the 300
trees that we had approved previously

2480
03:14:07,760 --> 03:14:11,359
and then we'll be done with it.
>> Is there a second?

2481
03:14:10,160 --> 03:14:15,439
» Second.
Okay, we got a motion by Commissioner

2482
03:14:13,520 --> 03:14:21,840
Sly, seconded by Commissioner Redmond to
accept the pollinator fields in lie of

2483
03:14:17,279 --> 03:14:27,960
the 300 trees from next era serial city
solar.

2484
03:14:24,239 --> 03:14:27,960
Any further discussion?

2485
03:14:29,279 --> 03:14:36,560
Okay.
Do we need a roll call vote?

2486
03:14:33,680 --> 03:14:37,520
» Um I'm review
amendment.

2487
03:14:37,040 --> 03:14:43,920
» Roll call.
>> Roll call vote. It is Secretary Woods.

2488
03:14:42,319 --> 03:14:46,239
» Uh, Commissioner Riggs,
>> yes.

2489
03:14:45,120 --> 03:14:48,960
» Mr. Summers,
>> no.

2490
03:14:47,840 --> 03:14:51,520
» Commissioner Redmond,
>> yes.

2491
03:14:50,560 --> 03:14:55,520
» Chair Johnson,
>> no.

2492
03:14:54,160 --> 03:15:00,600
» Vice Chair Sly,
>> yes.

2493
03:14:57,040 --> 03:15:00,600
» Commissioner Bowler,

2494
03:15:00,880 --> 03:15:09,200
» yes.
>> Commissioner Woods, yes.

2495
03:15:06,720 --> 03:15:12,399
Five to two. I'm done with it,
>> Shelly. Yay.

2496
03:15:11,534 --> 03:15:14,720
[laughter]
>> All right. [snorts]

2497
03:15:13,040 --> 03:15:17,200
» Thank you, commissioners. I appreciate
it very much.

2498
03:15:16,000 --> 03:15:21,520
» Now, you can let us know when the
pollinator fields are starting up. Yeah.

2499
03:15:19,200 --> 03:15:27,279
All right. Very good. All right. Um,
commissioners, we are now in audience.

2500
03:15:23,840 --> 03:15:33,200
We are now under uh unfinished business.
Um, item B and this is the reasonzoning

2501
03:15:31,120 --> 03:15:37,760
applications for Marshall Area Economic
Development Alliance of 31 parcels. Um

2502
03:15:36,399 --> 03:15:44,800
commissioners just a couple thing before
we get started is um we have a packet

2503
03:15:41,840 --> 03:15:49,920
and um many of us were present for our
August 4th meeting. Um following our

2504
03:15:47,600 --> 03:15:54,239
August 4th meeting, I tried and you have
it in the packet here. Tried to take

2505
03:15:52,239 --> 03:15:59,279
what we said at that meeting related to
a workshop is what we heard, a

2506
03:15:56,080 --> 03:16:04,479
presentation workshop as well as a map,
a big map and then um I think I even

2507
03:16:02,720 --> 03:16:10,479
shared the meeting or maybe it was in my
notes here afterwards. Um

2508
03:16:08,000 --> 03:16:16,880
parcel GIS parcel map of each one of
these, right? Um so since that time we

2509
03:16:13,439 --> 03:16:23,200
also received um uh Mr. Lindseay from
the audience also sent a letter to um

2510
03:16:19,840 --> 03:16:28,000
email pardon me to Mr. Thaw um and it
was dated August 13th and it is in the

2511
03:16:26,319 --> 03:16:32,080
packet. I'm not going to read it in its
entirety except for one paragraph. So,

2512
03:16:30,960 --> 03:16:36,880
um, we'll make sure that this is
reflected in the minutes. And it says,

2513
03:16:34,720 --> 03:16:40,960
um, the PC determined at the August 4th
meeting, not all capital, to set the

2514
03:16:39,120 --> 03:16:45,600
public ma the matter for a public
hearing on September 1st of 2026.

2515
03:16:43,359 --> 03:16:49,520
Instead, the request was made for the
scheduling of a separate meeting not

2516
03:16:47,439 --> 03:16:54,640
required of any other applicants, past
or present, um, to come back and answer

2517
03:16:52,319 --> 03:16:59,279
questions about MA's quote plans.
Subsequent to that request, nine days

2518
03:16:57,040 --> 03:17:03,439
have elapsed and despite follow-up
emails, no separate meeting has been

2519
03:17:01,200 --> 03:17:07,439
scheduled. Instead, the chair, I think
that means me, unilaterally is

2520
03:17:05,760 --> 03:17:10,720
requesting various documents that are
not required by the township ordinance

2521
03:17:09,279 --> 03:17:15,760
and which are not required for
submissions by other applicants. Her

2522
03:17:13,040 --> 03:17:21,040
requests appear to be discriminatory
as to ma relative to other applicants.

2523
03:17:18,560 --> 03:17:25,840
And it appears that MA has been singled
out for a different process than any

2524
03:17:23,760 --> 03:17:30,000
other applicant in the township. The
appearance is the public hearing is

2525
03:17:27,600 --> 03:17:34,479
being delayed for some unstated purpose.
So I will share some comments on that

2526
03:17:31,760 --> 03:17:38,560
before we get to the scheduling that is
commissioners. We were many of us were

2527
03:17:36,720 --> 03:17:42,319
present at the August 4th meeting. We
spoke at length about cooperation. I

2528
03:17:40,720 --> 03:17:47,600
think we heard a lot about cooperation
at that meeting um and the importance of

2529
03:17:44,960 --> 03:17:51,920
it. And I ask each of you whether this
email sent to our attorney by Mr.

2530
03:17:50,399 --> 03:17:55,120
Lindseay reflects the cooperative
approach that was discussed. I think we

2531
03:17:53,840 --> 03:17:58,319
even had the chair of the board here
talking about being a straight shooter.

2532
03:17:56,720 --> 03:18:03,840
I think that's what we we heard at that
meeting. This is not reflective of a

2533
03:18:01,359 --> 03:18:06,720
cooperative effort. The plan as a plan
commissioners, I'm going speak for

2534
03:18:04,960 --> 03:18:10,479
myself. We have a clear responsibility
under the zoning ordinance and the

2535
03:18:08,239 --> 03:18:14,000
Michigan zoning enabling act to request
information necessary to conduct a

2536
03:18:12,160 --> 03:18:18,160
complete and accurate review of any
matter brought to us. Due diligent is

2537
03:18:16,239 --> 03:18:21,040
not optional. It is required. Our
obligations to the township, to the

2538
03:18:19,680 --> 03:18:25,040
public, and to the integrity of the
planning process. With respect to the

2539
03:18:23,040 --> 03:18:29,120
reference made about eight years of past
practice, I will simply note that there

2540
03:18:27,040 --> 03:18:32,080
is substantial documented history of
items that were not accurate or

2541
03:18:30,800 --> 03:18:35,760
appropriately completed during that
period, not to mention the zoning map.

2542
03:18:34,000 --> 03:18:38,560
We are committed to moving forward and
improving our processes, but it is

2543
03:18:37,359 --> 03:18:42,800
important to understand that past
practice does not override ordinance

2544
03:18:40,560 --> 03:18:46,960
requirements. I will also be clear, I
will not have my integrity questioned.

2545
03:18:45,040 --> 03:18:49,920
The tone and content of that email sent
to our attorney raises concerns that

2546
03:18:48,560 --> 03:18:53,680
communication may be intended to
pressure, intimidate, or retaliate

2547
03:18:52,160 --> 03:18:57,920
against the planning commission for
performing its statuary statutory

2548
03:18:55,520 --> 03:19:01,680
duties. That is not acceptable. We will
continue to focus forward and we will

2549
03:18:59,680 --> 03:19:05,200
continue to act responsibility. However,
we will not allow anyone's sense of

2550
03:19:03,600 --> 03:19:08,880
urgency to override the legal and
procedural obligations we are required.

2551
03:19:07,279 --> 03:19:13,600
That zoning report that you attached
that email was handed out at that

2552
03:19:10,239 --> 03:19:18,560
meeting. So, in full disclosure, I'm not
going to I'm not going to have this type

2553
03:19:16,399 --> 03:19:23,600
of retaliation towards me, directed
towards me when we had a unanimous vote

2554
03:19:21,680 --> 03:19:28,880
of this commission on how we were going
to handle that. And I will leave it at

2555
03:19:25,760 --> 03:19:32,000
that. So, moving on, Shel.
>> I didn't realize that I had to have a

2556
03:19:30,319 --> 03:19:35,760
full complete zoning administrator's
report for the planning commission to

2557
03:19:34,160 --> 03:19:39,359
set a public hearing.
>> Well, the key to it is it was still

2558
03:19:37,200 --> 03:19:44,479
handed out at that meeting.
>> I wanted to state thank you.

2559
03:19:42,720 --> 03:19:48,080
» The bottom line is that doesn't excuse
the email. So, with that, moving

2560
03:19:46,640 --> 03:19:50,880
forward, commissioners, did I miss
anything? Was that didn't we hear a lot

2561
03:19:49,600 --> 03:19:59,279
about cooperation at that meeting?
>> Yep, it was. And we all voted on it.

2562
03:19:54,960 --> 03:20:03,920
I was I was taken back by the response.
>> Moving on and we will be setting and and

2563
03:20:01,920 --> 03:20:09,040
moving forward
>> with that we have what I heard at that

2564
03:20:07,279 --> 03:20:12,000
meeting and is reflected in the minutes
and commissioner I believe it was you

2565
03:20:10,399 --> 03:20:17,359
who had asked for either a workshop or a
presentation and then we have before us

2566
03:20:15,359 --> 03:20:22,080
whether or not we want to how to proceed
with setting public hearing dates. I

2567
03:20:19,359 --> 03:20:26,399
don't know that we've ever had 31 zoning
applications at one time. So,

2568
03:20:24,160 --> 03:20:30,760
commissioners, I will leave it to you um
on on how you would like to proceed

2569
03:20:27,760 --> 03:20:30,760
forward.

2570
03:20:40,800 --> 03:20:47,840
» Appreciate a lawyerly
point of view on how we should address

2571
03:20:46,800 --> 03:20:52,560
31.
>> Yeah. So, I mean obligations.

2572
03:20:49,600 --> 03:20:57,920
» Yeah. It is unusual to have 31 reszoning
applications at one time from an

2573
03:20:54,560 --> 03:21:02,160
applicant. Um, what I would do is if I
were looking at this, I mean, each one

2574
03:20:59,680 --> 03:21:07,520
is going to have to be done separately.
And what I would do is I would set them

2575
03:21:04,960 --> 03:21:12,319
all for a date for a public hearing. You
get through what you get through. And if

2576
03:21:09,680 --> 03:21:15,840
there's more, then you set another date
to get through the rest of them. And if

2577
03:21:14,000 --> 03:21:20,720
there's more, you set another date. But
you set them all originally for a

2578
03:21:18,479 --> 03:21:24,479
hearing date and you [snorts] just work
yourself because you don't know how many

2579
03:21:22,000 --> 03:21:28,319
you might get through. Um you just work
yourself through them. Whatever's left

2580
03:21:26,160 --> 03:21:31,760
then you would postpone to the next
meeting. Work [clears throat] through

2581
03:21:29,840 --> 03:21:35,439
that. If there's more then you postpone
the rest to the next you know however

2582
03:21:34,000 --> 03:21:40,640
meetings it would take to get through
it. You would do that because they're

2583
03:21:37,600 --> 03:21:46,160
each separate public hearings uh as
separate applications. And um you know,

2584
03:21:44,239 --> 03:21:51,920
but I wouldn't just say, "Oh, it's a set
two and then set two." Set them all. You

2585
03:21:49,439 --> 03:21:57,439
get as far as you can get and then you
just postpone the remainders to the a

2586
03:21:55,840 --> 03:22:01,840
subsequent meeting. That's what I would
recommend. And and really you shouldn't

2587
03:22:00,000 --> 03:22:06,239
I know you want to have a presentation
on it, but really a presentate once they

2588
03:22:04,319 --> 03:22:09,680
file their application, it should all
come under the public hearing. So when

2589
03:22:07,840 --> 03:22:13,600
they do a presentation, we want that to
be part of the public hearing. It should

2590
03:22:11,680 --> 03:22:18,080
be part of the record that's set for
that public hearing. So really it would

2591
03:22:16,000 --> 03:22:23,680
be I would say you set it for a public
hearing. They they certainly can then

2592
03:22:20,800 --> 03:22:28,000
pres make a presentation to us. These
are I'll just state this too though

2593
03:22:25,520 --> 03:22:32,479
these are uh traditional reszoning
requests. So they don't tell us specific

2594
03:22:30,720 --> 03:22:36,800
uses. I know the public was like well
what's going to be on there? Well a

2595
03:22:35,040 --> 03:22:42,160
traditional reszoning is just to
anything within that zoning district. uh

2596
03:22:39,520 --> 03:22:45,439
any permitted or special land use. They
don't have to. But then when you're

2597
03:22:43,439 --> 03:22:50,000
considering it, you'll consider all the
potential land uses in that district.

2598
03:22:48,000 --> 03:22:52,800
There's also I mean they didn't do it
this way, but and I don't know how

2599
03:22:51,520 --> 03:22:57,279
familiar you are with conditional
reszoning, but that's a different

2600
03:22:54,560 --> 03:23:03,200
process where they actually say, "Okay,
we're going to put this use here." you

2601
03:22:59,920 --> 03:23:09,040
know, uh, we want it reszone to, uh,
light industrial and this is going to be

2602
03:23:05,279 --> 03:23:13,040
the use on it and we will set aside all
the other uses in that district. It's

2603
03:23:11,200 --> 03:23:16,880
just going to be this. So, you kind of
know what's going to go on there. This

2604
03:23:14,479 --> 03:23:20,160
is not the way this came forward. It's a
traditional reasonzoning and that's

2605
03:23:18,960 --> 03:23:24,080
something that you'll consider when you
look at the standards and you know I'll

2606
03:23:22,319 --> 03:23:30,080
review all the standards with you that
you need to uh go over uh when you

2607
03:23:26,720 --> 03:23:35,279
review these but really it would be set
it for a public hearing get through as

2608
03:23:32,239 --> 03:23:40,800
many of the hearings as possible and
then whatever you don't you postpone to

2609
03:23:37,840 --> 03:23:46,640
the next meeting.
>> Okay. So my question would be so we only

2610
03:23:42,800 --> 03:23:49,840
need to have one public hearing? No, you
No.

2611
03:23:47,040 --> 03:23:54,319
» So if if we get okay, say we set a
public hearing for

2612
03:23:51,359 --> 03:23:55,760
» our October meeting and we get through
five of them,

2613
03:23:55,200 --> 03:23:58,720
» right?
>> So then do we have to set another public

2614
03:23:57,359 --> 03:24:02,640
hearing for the next ones?
>> No. So that's what I'm saying. This this

2615
03:24:00,399 --> 03:24:06,880
all falls under one public hearing,
>> right? One date for public hearings. So

2616
03:24:04,960 --> 03:24:11,040
it's noticed out as we're going to
consider all these. You get through as

2617
03:24:09,040 --> 03:24:16,800
many as you can get through and as long
as you uh do a time table. So like you

2618
03:24:15,120 --> 03:24:20,720
table it to [clears throat] postpone it
to a date certain the next meeting you

2619
03:24:18,960 --> 03:24:25,680
say what date it is you say what time it
is then you don't have to republish

2620
03:24:23,040 --> 03:24:29,920
notice each time uh because you've
noticed it all for the one hearing if

2621
03:24:27,920 --> 03:24:33,279
you move more forward then they just
move forward from that public hearing

2622
03:24:32,080 --> 03:24:38,000
from the meeting. Okay.
>> So so then my next question would be how

2623
03:24:36,239 --> 03:24:41,600
how do we determine how many we get
through? Is it on time or I mean is that

2624
03:24:40,800 --> 03:24:46,560
up to us or
>> It is up to you. Like you could set uh

2625
03:24:44,080 --> 03:24:50,720
that we're going to meet for x number of
hours and whatever we get through and

2626
03:24:48,640 --> 03:24:55,279
that many planning commissions, you
know, they they say like we're only

2627
03:24:52,640 --> 03:24:58,399
going to meet for x amount of time and
whatever we get through we get through.

2628
03:24:56,720 --> 03:25:03,840
Whatever we don't we set to the next
meeting because you might not be wanting

2629
03:25:00,960 --> 03:25:07,760
to act on reszoning say at you know
10:30 at night. Would would that be

2630
03:25:06,319 --> 03:25:10,319
would that be something that we need to
put in the motion w for the public

2631
03:25:09,680 --> 03:25:13,359
hearing?
>> Uh, no. I think when you're when you're

2632
03:25:12,319 --> 03:25:16,640
» just do it at the meeting.
>> When you're at the meeting, I think you

2633
03:25:14,800 --> 03:25:18,640
would somebody could make a procedural
motion to say, "Okay, we're going to go

2634
03:25:18,239 --> 03:25:22,479
until
>> until 9:00 or whatever." Okay.

2635
03:25:20,399 --> 03:25:27,120
» So, so Rob, if we pick a specific date
and we, you know, we're going to we're

2636
03:25:24,160 --> 03:25:32,080
going to advertise or or notice all of
31 parcels. We would also send that out.

2637
03:25:30,319 --> 03:25:34,479
I mean it might be majority made but
send it out [snorts] to all the parcel

2638
03:25:33,920 --> 03:25:38,560
» everybody
>> the 300 within 300 for that everybody

2639
03:25:38,000 --> 03:25:41,520
within the
>> everybody you you'll have published

2640
03:25:39,920 --> 03:25:46,120
notice and you'll have the mailed notice
for the whole all the restorings

2641
03:25:46,880 --> 03:25:55,359
» can I make a suggestion
the properties and I think Mr. Lindsay

2642
03:25:52,560 --> 03:26:01,279
will agree with me. The properties that
are becoming crucial are the ones

2643
03:25:58,880 --> 03:26:06,319
adjacent to Michigan Avenue starting at
13 Mile Road and going

2644
03:26:03,922 --> 03:26:11,200
[cough and clears throat] to 12mile Road
because MD DOT's going into

2645
03:26:08,319 --> 03:26:18,720
construction. And these properties need
to be in need to be they need to be

2646
03:26:15,760 --> 03:26:21,840
considered not then making us do all of
them. the ones that are along the road

2647
03:26:21,120 --> 03:26:25,520
need to be done.
>> Prioritize.

2648
03:26:23,120 --> 03:26:30,080
» Yeah. Priorities. So we the problem with
us, we go through this packet, we try to

2649
03:26:27,439 --> 03:26:34,160
look at 31 different things. If we knew
that there was eight of them down

2650
03:26:32,319 --> 03:26:39,520
through here, boom, boom, boom.
>> Those are the ones to consider. Then we

2651
03:26:36,319 --> 03:26:43,120
could research and look at them.
>> Yeah, that makes sense to you guys.

2652
03:26:41,760 --> 03:26:45,760
» That'd be part of the process.
>> Yeah, I think they could tell us if

2653
03:26:44,880 --> 03:26:50,160
there's certain
>> tell us which ones are prioritized. that

2654
03:26:48,319 --> 03:26:52,479
would be more priority.
>> They're grouped.

2655
03:26:50,960 --> 03:26:59,040
» Originally, they dropped off one
application for all 31. Um, I had spoke

2656
03:26:55,520 --> 03:27:04,640
to Dave Bosard regarding this project
and I had even spoken to Rob about it.

2657
03:27:02,160 --> 03:27:10,720
Um, there was a thought that we could
have done five or six applications and

2658
03:27:07,680 --> 03:27:17,600
included all of the parcels that are
adjacent. What I got from Erin is a map

2659
03:27:15,359 --> 03:27:23,600
showing what their thoughts are going to
be in the future because your IP has to

2660
03:27:20,080 --> 03:27:27,920
have 330 foot of frontage and 5 acres.
None of these a majority of these

2661
03:27:25,840 --> 03:27:32,239
parcels do not meet that. They also
don't meet a they don't meet other

2662
03:27:30,080 --> 03:27:37,680
districts that they're in. But you could
consider grouping them like this. This

2663
03:27:35,680 --> 03:27:42,560
is one individual parcel. This is an
individual parcel. And then there are

2664
03:27:39,840 --> 03:27:46,239
four that have combinations of parcels.
>> And and that would that would be more

2665
03:27:44,319 --> 03:27:53,040
common is what I would see with a
resoning is not just a single parcel,

2666
03:27:49,359 --> 03:27:58,000
but a group of adjacent parcels can be
put together um for reson. So a lot of

2667
03:27:55,760 --> 03:28:03,359
times the reasonzoning might cover a
larger area, one resoning. And I think

2668
03:28:01,200 --> 03:28:08,319
um what you just showed there shows like
a grouping of so maybe when you take

2669
03:28:05,680 --> 03:28:13,359
your public hearings you could take it
by group if that's how they are because

2670
03:28:11,439 --> 03:28:16,960
that makes sense that you take the
contiguous parcels right

2671
03:28:14,960 --> 03:28:20,960
» is one group the next contiguous set of
parcels is another and so forth. So you

2672
03:28:19,520 --> 03:28:24,080
could take it that way too. Yeah, I
think in the packet and maybe it matches

2673
03:28:22,560 --> 03:28:26,880
that it's got the
>> prioritizing

2674
03:28:24,880 --> 03:28:29,359
» the different tables, table one, table
two,

2675
03:28:27,760 --> 03:28:34,960
» different tables in here, too.
>> And you could even then take you could

2676
03:28:31,520 --> 03:28:40,560
open the hearings on each parcel within
a group and then discuss them together.

2677
03:28:37,439 --> 03:28:46,479
If it's if it's really one
reszone area and then you're considering

2678
03:28:43,520 --> 03:28:49,840
whether that whole area to be reszoned,
the a lot of different things are on the

2679
03:28:48,399 --> 03:28:54,479
table for the planning commission,
whether it's that whole contiguous area

2680
03:28:52,239 --> 03:28:58,080
or maybe a property not in that, you
know, that you peel something off.

2681
03:28:56,560 --> 03:29:02,640
There's different things that you can
look at. Um,

2682
03:29:00,720 --> 03:29:08,080
but maybe that's a good way to do it is
if it is grouped to do it by groups. But

2683
03:29:06,239 --> 03:29:13,520
I think what you do is you'd notice it
all for public hearing and then if we

2684
03:29:10,880 --> 03:29:17,680
have groups then we could do do it by
group.

2685
03:29:15,200 --> 03:29:20,800
And I think when we um when I was
following up from that meeting just

2686
03:29:19,120 --> 03:29:24,479
looking at your schedule as well and I
know you had a court case but we were

2687
03:29:22,880 --> 03:29:27,680
trying to figure out some dates so that
we could you know didn't we weren't sure

2688
03:29:26,479 --> 03:29:30,880
what we were doing with the presentation
other than what was said at the workshop

2689
03:29:29,439 --> 03:29:33,840
and like you said we can include it
which I noted that we could potentially

2690
03:29:32,319 --> 03:29:39,200
include it as far as part of the public
hearing date. The dates that were thrown

2691
03:29:37,120 --> 03:29:43,680
out were, you know, do we want to have a
special meeting in se, you know,

2692
03:29:40,960 --> 03:29:47,520
September 16th, 18th, October 21st,
23rd? Do we want a part of our meeting

2693
03:29:45,840 --> 03:29:52,560
on the 20th? Start there. I mean, that's
I'm just throwing out these dates

2694
03:29:48,880 --> 03:29:57,520
because your availability and you know
what whatever the PC wants to do,

2695
03:29:55,520 --> 03:30:01,840
» have to factor in the noticing.
>> Yes, that's what I was going to say. How

2696
03:29:59,040 --> 03:30:06,960
long is it going to take to get to get
property notices out for 31 properties?

2697
03:30:04,560 --> 03:30:09,760
We can't set a date until we know that
we can have

2698
03:30:08,080 --> 03:30:14,000
» Well, you could set it. Just has to be
farther enough out that we have to have

2699
03:30:11,840 --> 03:30:17,760
15 days notice in the newspaper. What's
the lead time for your paper?

2700
03:30:15,680 --> 03:30:21,439
» No concern about 31 properties and
getting them all done. I will have all

2701
03:30:19,120 --> 03:30:24,640
of the um addresses and everything. They
will just get mailed out just like any

2702
03:30:22,960 --> 03:30:27,920
other application would
>> put all the hearing all in one. I think

2703
03:30:26,479 --> 03:30:32,000
we can put it in one block. [snorts]
It's not like we have to do every one

2704
03:30:29,439 --> 03:30:35,840
block. No, but you what I'm asking is
you've got to you got to mail out

2705
03:30:34,000 --> 03:30:39,279
property notices to the people.
>> Yeah, there's

2706
03:30:37,439 --> 03:30:41,040
» a majority of them.
>> Well, you got the people across the

2707
03:30:40,479 --> 03:30:44,000
road.
>> It's not going to be a problem getting

2708
03:30:42,479 --> 03:30:49,040
those addresses and being able to get
the notices out there

2709
03:30:46,560 --> 03:30:54,960
that are the biggest hurdle which is
>> and I I put this in that one email I

2710
03:30:52,000 --> 03:30:59,279
sent out. It's 15 days we take what is
the previous Saturday because that would

2711
03:30:56,560 --> 03:31:04,640
be the newspaper and the advisor. we
have to have it in by that Monday before

2712
03:31:02,239 --> 03:31:10,880
whatever is whatever that 15 days you
take it back whatever that previous

2713
03:31:06,640 --> 03:31:16,239
Saturday is and then it has to be uh the
the previous Monday. So as long as we

2714
03:31:12,880 --> 03:31:20,160
have the information to be able to write
out those notices [clears throat] we can

2715
03:31:18,160 --> 03:31:24,640
send them out but we need that lead time
before then. So if if like Carl needs to

2716
03:31:23,279 --> 03:31:28,560
do something or Shel needs to do
something, they may need a little bit

2717
03:31:26,479 --> 03:31:32,080
more days, you know, beyond that Monday.
You can't be like, "Oh, that Monday."

2718
03:31:30,000 --> 03:31:37,920
But just we have to have the information
by that that Monday so that we can send

2719
03:31:34,160 --> 03:31:41,760
it to the newspaper. Um our contact
>> that [clears throat] that doesn't help.

2720
03:31:39,120 --> 03:31:45,359
I mean, you're you got to give us you
got to give us how many days how many

2721
03:31:43,439 --> 03:31:50,479
how many days notice do you need?
>> It depends on the day you pick is what

2722
03:31:46,960 --> 03:31:53,120
I'm trying to say. So you need 15 days.
What's the lead? The lead time for the

2723
03:31:52,000 --> 03:31:58,319
paper is how many days?
>> You have the Monday before

2724
03:31:57,279 --> 03:32:04,960
it's the Monday. [clears throat]
Our contacts at the newspaper said that

2725
03:32:00,319 --> 03:32:09,120
they want it on the Monday before uh uh
before that Saturday.

2726
03:32:06,399 --> 03:32:11,680
» So, it's got to be
five days.

2727
03:32:10,000 --> 03:32:15,359
» Well, on August 12th though,
>> so it's 20 days.

2728
03:32:12,479 --> 03:32:20,640
» What I understood from our conversation
>> Wayne was two months. I said if you want

2729
03:32:18,000 --> 03:32:26,160
to put it on so this is what I said if
you want to put it on the the meeting

2730
03:32:24,880 --> 03:32:32,080
a normal typical [clears throat]
planning commission meeting the issues

2731
03:32:28,720 --> 03:32:36,960
that arise is this is a Tuesday Carl
only works on Wednesday and then he's

2732
03:32:34,319 --> 03:32:42,160
not there until the following Monday so
Carl has a partner and then Carl gets

2733
03:32:40,720 --> 03:32:47,279
some of that information from the
assessor which is on Tuesday so you just

2734
03:32:45,040 --> 03:32:51,600
need to have it's a But we can advance
before that because of who we have in

2735
03:32:49,520 --> 03:32:55,600
the office that can get get the
information out and he has access to it

2736
03:32:53,279 --> 03:32:58,239
as well. But you know that's not the
only thing he does.

2737
03:32:56,880 --> 03:33:00,880
» You know like
>> I think our schedule meeting in October

2738
03:33:00,000 --> 03:33:03,680
is the date.
>> Yeah.

2739
03:33:01,200 --> 03:33:07,279
» I I put it all in black and white in
that email and explain exactly how it

2740
03:33:05,760 --> 03:33:10,880
should go.
>> It's been changed.

2741
03:33:09,279 --> 03:33:14,000
» Whatever the first two
>> that makes sense. I mean

2742
03:33:12,399 --> 03:33:15,920
» that gives us enough.
>> What was that? I didn't hear it. What

2743
03:33:15,359 --> 03:33:21,120
was that?
>> I said it's I put it in that I tried to

2744
03:33:18,800 --> 03:33:25,359
spell it out in that one email of
exactly what it what it looks like. So,

2745
03:33:22,880 --> 03:33:29,439
like I said, I said if you're going to
try to do it on a planning commission

2746
03:33:27,359 --> 03:33:33,359
normal meeting, it's easier if you're
like we're in September. It's easier to

2747
03:33:31,680 --> 03:33:38,000
put it on the November because we can
definitely make it. It's a really tight

2748
03:33:35,840 --> 03:33:43,439
turnaround to get it on the normal
planning commission meeting for the next

2749
03:33:40,640 --> 03:33:47,680
month just because of all all the the
deadlines that have to happen and who

2750
03:33:45,040 --> 03:33:51,359
would who's responsible for what within
the office. That's all I'm saying.

2751
03:33:49,600 --> 03:33:53,200
» That's exactly what I was asking. How
long do you need? And you said two

2752
03:33:52,560 --> 03:33:58,640
months now.
>> I said I said if you don't do a special

2753
03:33:56,880 --> 03:34:01,279
meeting, if you do a special meeting,
yes,

2754
03:33:59,600 --> 03:34:06,399
» you can do it sooner.
>> Okay.

2755
03:34:02,479 --> 03:34:08,960
So, are there what dates work?
>> Could could we do it at the at the

2756
03:34:08,399 --> 03:34:13,040
October
>> meeting? Because isn't that later in the

2757
03:34:10,319 --> 03:34:14,880
month anyways, like the 20th
stuff

2758
03:34:13,439 --> 03:34:18,800
» and then can we do it as a special
meeting and do it like an hour before

2759
03:34:17,279 --> 03:34:25,359
the regular meeting and then that would
give us an hour to do that and then we

2760
03:34:22,880 --> 03:34:29,200
we do another hour and a month later.
>> We don't know what that meeting is going

2761
03:34:26,800 --> 03:34:33,520
to entail by the time October gets here.
I think our October meeting, whatever

2762
03:34:31,840 --> 03:34:38,800
day it's now scheduled on,
>> are we?

2763
03:34:35,120 --> 03:34:42,479
» The 20th is our
>> I thought in that email we got from you,

2764
03:34:40,720 --> 03:34:46,800
Joanna, and we talked about changing it
to October 21st.

2765
03:34:44,880 --> 03:34:51,920
» Well, that was just I was trying to
check the availability of Rob. So,

2766
03:34:49,520 --> 03:34:54,479
» Right.
>> Yeah.

2767
03:34:53,680 --> 03:34:58,160
I [cough] mean, the 20th
[clears throat and snorts] I normally do

2768
03:34:55,359 --> 03:35:02,560
have a meeting that night. So,
I mean the 21st

2769
03:35:00,960 --> 03:35:06,560
looks better.
>> Everybody hear that?

2770
03:35:04,640 --> 03:35:11,520
» October 21st.
>> So, we would potentially have a special

2771
03:35:08,239 --> 03:35:17,960
meeting of what I'm hearing for October
21st if that works.

2772
03:35:14,560 --> 03:35:17,960
» That's a Wednesday

2773
03:35:20,800 --> 03:35:25,520
meeting.
>> We changed that. remember

2774
03:35:23,920 --> 03:35:28,539
» October 21st. Is that a
>> Wednesday?

2775
03:35:26,160 --> 03:35:31,840
» I'm sorry, guys. What does it say here?
[clears throat]

2776
03:35:29,680 --> 03:35:34,479
» We've got October 20th. What day is
October 20th?

2777
03:35:32,800 --> 03:35:37,279
» Tuesday is Tuesday. It's Tuesday
>> is our regular meeting now.

2778
03:35:35,760 --> 03:35:39,439
» Yes. For that month.
>> Yeah.

2779
03:35:37,600 --> 03:35:43,680
» But Rob can't make that date. So, we
would change our regular meeting for

2780
03:35:41,680 --> 03:35:50,154
October to the 21st
>> to accommodate Rob.

2781
03:35:45,520 --> 03:35:54,000
» I see. Okay. Hang on.
>> [clears throat]

2782
03:35:50,800 --> 03:35:59,324
» You want to wait a minute?
>> Shelley, you said we didn't know how

2783
03:35:56,080 --> 03:36:02,080
much we were going to have on the 21st.
[clears throat]

2784
03:36:00,319 --> 03:36:05,680
» It won't be this much.
>> We don't have any idea what's going to

2785
03:36:03,600 --> 03:36:08,160
be on the October meeting. We've got a
long way until the October meeting here.

2786
03:36:07,680 --> 03:36:12,880
So,
>> people the next meeting.

2787
03:36:11,279 --> 03:36:17,359
» Well, I mean, it's got to be in order.
Yeah. I mean, we're

2788
03:36:14,479 --> 03:36:22,479
» right. I mean, this might be full. I
would say this will be Do we do take a

2789
03:36:20,000 --> 03:36:27,200
number and whoever comes in first gets
seen first and [clears throat] everybody

2790
03:36:24,399 --> 03:36:30,399
after that does not get
>> Well, I don't anticipate we'll even see

2791
03:36:29,600 --> 03:36:33,760
anybody.
>> Well, no, she doesn't. What she's saying

2792
03:36:32,640 --> 03:36:35,760
is she doesn't know what's going to come
in for the

2793
03:36:34,960 --> 03:36:40,000
» for the meeting.
>> Yeah, that we have no idea what might be

2794
03:36:38,399 --> 03:36:46,040
before the planning commission for the
October meeting at this point,

2795
03:36:41,279 --> 03:36:46,040
» right? But as far as the reasonzoning,

2796
03:36:46,640 --> 03:36:54,160
» that's where we
adjust the group hearings, the bar

2797
03:36:53,689 --> 03:36:57,359
[snorts]
>> based upon whatever's on the agenda for

2798
03:36:55,760 --> 03:37:00,560
that evening,
>> but Rob can't make the 20th

2799
03:36:59,040 --> 03:37:04,239
» our regular meeting.
>> So 21st. [clears throat]

2800
03:37:02,880 --> 03:37:07,359
» So do you want to bump the regular
meeting to the 21st? You want to have a

2801
03:37:05,840 --> 03:37:10,880
regular meeting on the 20th and a
special meeting for the

2802
03:37:09,040 --> 03:37:13,920
» So have a meeting back to back?
>> Yeah. I don't know. That's what I'm

2803
03:37:12,399 --> 03:37:16,479
asking.
>> You guys decide. I mean, somebody make a

2804
03:37:15,920 --> 03:37:20,640
motion.
>> I'd rather have one meeting and if if we

2805
03:37:19,120 --> 03:37:28,399
want to if we're worried about it, I'd
rather do it before the regular meeting

2806
03:37:24,880 --> 03:37:33,359
» so we don't have to vote on it at
>> I don't even I can't even see. It's so

2807
03:37:30,160 --> 03:37:40,239
blurry. 201
>> a couple hours. It will be the next day.

2808
03:37:35,600 --> 03:37:43,439
like the 20th meeting last two days.
>> It's ridiculous.

2809
03:37:41,200 --> 03:37:49,680
» Our board rules and I I haven't followed
it. Well, but it says it should end at

2810
03:37:46,239 --> 03:37:53,279
10 unless unanimous consent
>> board or I don't know what your

2811
03:37:52,080 --> 03:37:56,000
» We don't have that. We don't have
>> I have no idea.

2812
03:37:55,120 --> 03:37:58,640
» Should have bylaws.
>> It's not in our bylaws.

2813
03:37:57,520 --> 03:38:01,200
» I don't have anything like that in our
bylaws.

2814
03:38:00,080 --> 03:38:08,359
» But maybe we should have put something
like that in our bylaws. Sorry, guys.

2815
03:38:03,279 --> 03:38:08,359
» All right. Yeah, most boards put

2816
03:38:12,399 --> 03:38:21,439
» we could if we if we bump the meeting to
the 21st

2817
03:38:18,160 --> 03:38:25,760
might be wasting Rob's time
and

2818
03:38:22,960 --> 03:38:33,200
we have and and if we have a lot of
stuff come in what comes first?

2819
03:38:30,080 --> 03:38:38,800
The public hearing.
I mean just my opinion is you take what

2820
03:38:35,200 --> 03:38:42,560
comes in first first. So like this first
you might tell the next people if they

2821
03:38:41,200 --> 03:38:46,160
file application they're not going to be
heard until November

2822
03:38:43,920 --> 03:38:49,160
» because the October meeting is full.
>> Okay.

2823
03:38:50,000 --> 03:38:56,960
» Let's move the [laughter] meeting to
>> Okay. I'm going to make a motion.

2824
03:38:54,479 --> 03:39:03,120
unheard of here, but let's make a motion
that um we begin the process of the

2825
03:39:00,880 --> 03:39:10,479
public hearing for the resoning
applications of MA to October 21st and

2826
03:39:08,160 --> 03:39:14,080
we will also change our meeting date
from October 20th to October 21st.

2827
03:39:12,800 --> 03:39:17,080
» Yep.
>> Support.

2828
03:39:17,279 --> 03:39:23,840
And then um
>> is [clears throat] that slide? Um and

2829
03:39:21,680 --> 03:39:28,319
then during that, I know there's been a
lot of questions we've had from Aaron,

2830
03:39:25,520 --> 03:39:33,040
Shelley's had them. Um Mr. Lindsay has
as well on what the presentation would

2831
03:39:31,439 --> 03:39:35,200
include. And Commissioner Buller, I'm
putting you on the spot because I know

2832
03:39:34,000 --> 03:39:39,359
you mentioned a workshop. Is there
anything specific you want included in

2833
03:39:37,279 --> 03:39:44,000
that you'd like them the the applicants
to present? Yeah,

2834
03:39:41,920 --> 03:39:47,359
» you got to go into it like like we don't
know anything about what they're

2835
03:39:46,000 --> 03:39:52,080
proposing and what they're wanting to
do. And um I wasn't on the plan

2836
03:39:49,920 --> 03:39:57,200
commission when the when everything the
mega site started. I have no idea how

2837
03:39:54,239 --> 03:40:00,680
all that came to be. It's baffling how
that all happened.

2838
03:40:00,800 --> 03:40:09,279
» So yeah, I'd like a complete education
presentation on

2839
03:40:08,160 --> 03:40:13,920
» on the project.
>> Okay. how how it all ties in how

2840
03:40:11,760 --> 03:40:16,880
everything you know start from the
beginning and how did we get to where

2841
03:40:15,200 --> 03:40:20,880
we're at.
>> Commissioners, anything else so that we

2842
03:40:18,960 --> 03:40:23,680
have it for the record again on what you
want.

2843
03:40:21,600 --> 03:40:27,920
» Two things. Let me get your motion
first. Actually, please. Motion by

2844
03:40:26,560 --> 03:40:33,200
Commissioner Johnson, seconded by
Commissioner Sly, that we have the we

2845
03:40:30,160 --> 03:40:38,399
begin the resoning applications for MA
on October 21st and we also make that

2846
03:40:36,080 --> 03:40:40,319
our regular meeting of October 21st
instead of October 20th.

2847
03:40:39,920 --> 03:40:45,617
» Okay.
>> I don't think I said it the exact same

2848
03:40:41,680 --> 03:40:45,617
way, but that's one [snorts]

2849
03:40:49,600 --> 03:40:55,279
» Did I interrupt somebody? Is there
anybody any other thing else? Go ahead.

2850
03:40:53,120 --> 03:40:59,359
And just can you say that you resolve
and then we're going to do it by roll

2851
03:40:56,640 --> 03:41:02,000
call vote because you're making a new
regular meeting.

2852
03:41:01,600 --> 03:41:05,760
» Okay.
>> Okay. So her motion is to resolve to do

2853
03:41:05,279 --> 03:41:10,080
that.
>> Okay. I resolve to do that.

2854
03:41:07,920 --> 03:41:17,003
» Resolve to begin the process.
>> Resolve to set the meeting. It just just

2855
03:41:12,960 --> 03:41:19,022
started out by saying that she resolved.
[sighs]

2856
03:41:19,439 --> 03:41:27,120
Um the motion is by commiss commissioner
Johnson seconded by Commissioner Sai to

2857
03:41:24,560 --> 03:41:31,439
resolve that the we begin the
reasonzoning applications of MA on

2858
03:41:28,960 --> 03:41:35,439
October 21st and we resolve to have our
meeting moved from October 20th to

2859
03:41:33,920 --> 03:41:40,359
October 21st
>> because then it's a regular meeting not

2860
03:41:37,200 --> 03:41:40,359
a special

2861
03:41:41,279 --> 03:41:48,479
» further discussion is there anything
else you want presented please so that

2862
03:41:44,960 --> 03:41:54,080
we answer the question okay I hear what
What I hear is information about how

2863
03:41:52,479 --> 03:41:59,840
this all began, the whole parcel, the
whole area, and then, you know, probably

2864
03:41:57,040 --> 03:42:03,560
putting some of these maps up on the
screen. So, okay.

2865
03:42:06,640 --> 03:42:14,319
» I don't know how what Steve,
Commissioner Buller, is asking

2866
03:42:11,359 --> 03:42:18,080
refers to the motion at all. I
understand what you want to happen. It

2867
03:42:16,080 --> 03:42:21,080
was it was just a discussion after the
motion.

2868
03:42:23,920 --> 03:42:32,720
» Erin,
>> no. Erin, at our non-meating for the

2869
03:42:29,520 --> 03:42:37,840
board back in June, you were prepared to
give a presentation

2870
03:42:35,760 --> 03:42:44,160
of
of a

2871
03:42:39,680 --> 03:42:49,359
made a wish type scenario for that area.
Would that cover what some of what we're

2872
03:42:48,080 --> 03:42:52,479
asking of you as far as the
presentation? [clears throat]

2873
03:42:50,319 --> 03:42:59,120
» It could. Yeah. So, that presentation
relates to the development plan that MA

2874
03:42:55,279 --> 03:43:03,439
has produced for the campus, which is a
part of why this resoning request has

2875
03:43:01,279 --> 03:43:08,640
come through. So, I think we can tie
some of that with the more specifics

2876
03:43:06,000 --> 03:43:13,120
regarding the request and how it meets
the criteria of the township and

2877
03:43:11,200 --> 03:43:17,439
hopefully meet what you guys want. And
obviously you can ask questions, we can

2878
03:43:15,439 --> 03:43:22,479
go through it. But yeah, I mean we're
we're totally open to grouping parcels

2879
03:43:19,359 --> 03:43:25,600
as was discussed. Um, you know, it was
requested that we do 31 separate

2880
03:43:24,080 --> 03:43:28,960
applications and so that's how we
submitted it. But like there are

2881
03:43:27,520 --> 03:43:32,640
groupings of parcels that can be looked
at more collectively as opposed to

2882
03:43:30,560 --> 03:43:37,040
individual parcels because to Shell's
point like they don't meet the five acre

2883
03:43:34,479 --> 03:43:40,160
requirement on their own, right? And so
we can we can talk to that and speak to

2884
03:43:38,960 --> 03:43:44,379
it.
I was just trying to so I know that you

2885
03:43:42,800 --> 03:43:48,960
prepared to give presentation that
[clears throat] evening but couldn't you

2886
03:43:46,560 --> 03:43:53,279
showed me a little bit after the meeting
was adjourned

2887
03:43:51,279 --> 03:43:57,680
that hey this is what I had was going to
give and I'm just thinking that that

2888
03:43:55,040 --> 03:44:00,720
presentation kind of offer
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think we can tie what we

2889
03:43:59,279 --> 03:44:04,960
were planning to do that evening with
the application if that's desirable for

2890
03:44:03,600 --> 03:44:07,199
the for the PC. Just
>> trying to y

2891
03:44:05,760 --> 03:44:14,479
» connect things there see if that would
help at all. Okay. Thanks.

2892
03:44:11,439 --> 03:44:18,160
» Any other comments?
With that, Secretary Woods, roll call

2893
03:44:16,319 --> 03:44:22,080
vote, please.
>> Mr. Summers.

2894
03:44:20,880 --> 03:44:25,645
» Yes.
>> Commissioner Redmond,

2895
03:44:23,199 --> 03:44:26,640
» yes.
[clears throat]

2896
03:44:25,680 --> 03:44:29,359
» Chair Johnson,
>> yes.

2897
03:44:27,760 --> 03:44:31,840
» Vice Chair Sly,
>> yes.

2898
03:44:30,800 --> 03:44:34,479
» Commissioner Buller,
>> yes.

2899
03:44:32,720 --> 03:44:36,560
» Secretary Woods, yes. Commissioner
Ruigs,

2900
03:44:35,279 --> 03:44:42,720
» yes.
>> 70. Commissioners, at this late hour, it

2901
03:44:39,680 --> 03:44:47,359
is 10:45. Um, I'm going to ask if it's
okay if we get through new business and

2902
03:44:45,760 --> 03:44:51,439
public comments, maybe commissioner
comments, but the rest of the

2903
03:44:48,960 --> 03:44:54,000
communications, can we just unless
there's something really

2904
03:44:52,640 --> 03:44:58,319
earthshattering? So, can we just
postpone that or just add it to our next

2905
03:44:56,560 --> 03:45:01,760
meeting?
Anybody good with that?

2906
03:45:00,479 --> 03:45:04,399
» All right, let's get to the next item
and then we'll see [clears throat] how

2907
03:45:02,560 --> 03:45:09,279
how quick we get through it. But I'm
hoping that we can forego communications

2908
03:45:06,720 --> 03:45:14,800
for this evening. Amen.
>> Um meeting schedule. Um we have a

2909
03:45:12,720 --> 03:45:19,680
November meeting date and it's at the
fire station unless there's an emergency

2910
03:45:17,120 --> 03:45:23,760
here, but there's an election. Um so we
can't use this room and you know we can

2911
03:45:22,560 --> 03:45:28,560
I'm just trying to figure out if we can
we can do this at another meeting too in

2912
03:45:25,520 --> 03:45:31,840
October. But can we not have a meeting
at the fire station and try to

2913
03:45:30,319 --> 03:45:36,319
reschedule that meeting so we can have
it here? I mean, it was no fault of

2914
03:45:34,000 --> 03:45:39,600
anybody, but it was we wasn't recorded
and we've learned to rely on that. And

2915
03:45:38,720 --> 03:45:44,000
» sounds good.
>> So, the only thought process I w I had

2916
03:45:41,920 --> 03:45:49,319
was does the 9th or 11th work for
anybody that week if the call is open?

2917
03:45:51,760 --> 03:45:55,720
» November 9th or 11th.

2918
03:45:58,239 --> 03:46:04,279
» You want to make a motion?
resolve to change that meeting.

2919
03:46:04,399 --> 03:46:09,160
» I'll make a motion.
>> Which date?

2920
03:46:11,199 --> 03:46:14,080
» 11th. You said
>> I'm just throwing that out there.

2921
03:46:13,520 --> 03:46:16,080
Whatever.
>> Either one.

2922
03:46:15,520 --> 03:46:18,080
» Either way.
>> Either way.

2923
03:46:16,560 --> 03:46:22,560
» Let's go.
>> What day is election day? The 3rd.

2924
03:46:21,279 --> 03:46:26,720
» On the third. The third.
>> November 3rd. What is everybody doing?

2925
03:46:25,359 --> 03:46:31,520
» Okay. You
>> What is the motion, Commissioner Woods?

2926
03:46:29,120 --> 03:46:39,199
to change the resolve to change the
November meeting date from November

2927
03:46:35,520 --> 03:46:41,120
» 3rd to November 11th.
>> Sounds good to me.

2928
03:46:40,560 --> 03:46:46,526
» Okay.
>> Is there a second?

2929
03:46:44,507 --> 03:46:46,526
[snorts]

2930
03:46:47,840 --> 03:46:53,760
» Summers.
Any further discussion?

2931
03:46:51,680 --> 03:46:54,880
Okay. All those in favor signify.
>> I'm sorry.

2932
03:46:54,319 --> 03:46:57,760
» The 11th.
>> The 11th.

2933
03:46:55,520 --> 03:47:00,560
» 11th. Okay.
All those in favor signify by saying I.

2934
03:47:00,160 --> 03:47:07,239
» I.
>> All those opposed, same sign.

2935
03:47:02,160 --> 03:47:07,239
» A holiday. It's just a holiday.

2936
03:47:08,160 --> 03:47:11,920
» Is the 11th?
>> Is that a I'm just saying. Is that a

2937
03:47:11,520 --> 03:47:13,439
government?
>> He's our veteran.

2938
03:47:13,040 --> 03:47:16,640
» So,
>> you're going to be able to come

2939
03:47:14,640 --> 03:47:19,120
» for this township holiday?
>> No.

2940
03:47:17,120 --> 03:47:22,479
» No.
>> Is that okay? Yes. Okay.

2941
03:47:21,359 --> 03:47:26,080
» He's our veteran.
>> Okay.

2942
03:47:23,199 --> 03:47:28,960
» He asked for it. Um, and I want to thank
the Michigan Department of

2943
03:47:27,040 --> 03:47:34,080
Transportation, who I think the attorney
is in the audience. This is [laughter]

2944
03:47:31,600 --> 03:47:37,120
really not normal, honest. Um, but
resoning applications from the Michigan

2945
03:47:35,680 --> 03:47:43,199
Department of Transportation. There are
two parcels noted here on the agenda.

2946
03:47:40,080 --> 03:47:47,920
Um, that we have applications for um,
resoning from community service

2947
03:47:46,160 --> 03:47:52,720
commercial to highway service
commercial. Um, and um, are you Devon?

2948
03:47:51,840 --> 03:47:58,960
» Yeah, Devon Sullivan.
>> Mr. Sullivan. Um, so you're at the

2949
03:47:56,000 --> 03:48:02,800
podium. Feel free to since you've been
here for three hours,

2950
03:48:01,040 --> 03:48:07,279
» it's late. I'm not very much of your
time. Uh, yeah, this is a request to

2951
03:48:04,720 --> 03:48:11,359
reszone two tax parcels that are uh
inside of the carpool lot that was

2952
03:48:09,439 --> 03:48:14,399
constructed by MD DOT. Uh, when the lot
was constructed, it was believed that

2953
03:48:12,800 --> 03:48:18,479
everything was already zoned highway
service commercial based upon the county

2954
03:48:16,000 --> 03:48:22,000
GIS. Uh we later learned from Shelley
that that was not correct. That two of

2955
03:48:19,840 --> 03:48:25,840
the parcels are community service where
our car poolool lot is permitted by

2956
03:48:23,920 --> 03:48:29,520
special uh use but not as a matter of
right. And so we're just looking to get

2957
03:48:27,279 --> 03:48:33,120
them reszoned to basically clean them
up.

2958
03:48:31,439 --> 03:48:36,640
» I I only have one question for you. Is
there any particular I know you have it

2959
03:48:34,479 --> 03:48:40,160
although MDOT is exempt from such zoning
requirements. Is there anything that you

2960
03:48:38,160 --> 03:48:46,880
can point to that states that? Uh so
there's case law that addresses uh

2961
03:48:42,800 --> 03:48:52,560
situations where the legislature has um
uh preempted zoning uh by granting sort

2962
03:48:50,800 --> 03:48:58,720
of total control over a particular thing
to a particular um entity. Uh so as an

2963
03:48:56,080 --> 03:49:02,000
example, there's a case on the county
choice of where it puts its uh building

2964
03:49:00,560 --> 03:49:05,680
for county seat [clears throat] is not
something that's subject to tenative

2965
03:49:03,439 --> 03:49:09,359
zoning because it is entirely within the
county's authority to do so. There's not

2966
03:49:07,600 --> 03:49:12,319
a specific case out there about EMBA.
It's never been litigated, but that is

2967
03:49:11,040 --> 03:49:16,080
sort of the position of the attorney
general that it's uh, you know, exempt

2968
03:49:13,920 --> 03:49:19,040
from zoning, but that being said, we're
happy to work with the township and get

2969
03:49:17,359 --> 03:49:20,399
them reszoned and just, you know, avoid
the issue.

2970
03:49:19,920 --> 03:49:25,120
» Okay.
>> Obviously,

2971
03:49:22,800 --> 03:49:29,279
» I notic on the application there's only
one parcel number listed,

2972
03:49:28,960 --> 03:49:33,080
not
>> two applications.

2973
03:49:30,080 --> 03:49:33,080
» Yes,

2974
03:49:33,680 --> 03:49:37,880
» there's only one in the packet.

2975
03:49:40,080 --> 03:49:45,560
Where are we at here?
What page?

2976
03:49:45,760 --> 03:49:53,319
» Let's see. This is way
>> for both. That's fine.

2977
03:49:50,319 --> 03:49:53,319
» Okay.

2978
03:49:58,000 --> 03:50:03,760
» Thank you, Mr. Sullivan. I don't know
that. Any other questions for Mr.

2979
03:50:01,439 --> 03:50:08,920
Sullivan at the moment?
>> Okay. Um, so we need to set a public

2980
03:50:05,600 --> 03:50:08,920
hearing date

2981
03:50:17,120 --> 03:50:23,239
» September at this rate be January,
February.

2982
03:50:24,000 --> 03:50:29,479
» Is that November 11th?
>> Yeah, let's do November 11th.

2983
03:50:30,160 --> 03:50:34,439
» Yeah, November 11th.

2984
03:50:34,880 --> 03:50:40,080
I'm just throwing that out there.
Commissioners

2985
03:50:38,880 --> 03:50:46,160
about that.
>> Okay. I move we set the public hearing

2986
03:50:42,960 --> 03:50:50,600
for the MD property reszone to November
11th, 2026.

2987
03:50:52,800 --> 03:50:57,600
» Thank you. We have a motion by
Commissioner, seconded by Commissioner

2988
03:50:55,760 --> 03:51:01,760
Woods to set the Michigan Department of
Transportation public hearing for

2989
03:50:59,279 --> 03:51:06,920
November 11th. That is at 7:00. um as
well. Um any further discussion

2990
03:51:09,920 --> 03:51:14,239
» by saying I
>> I

2991
03:51:11,680 --> 03:51:20,720
» all those opposed same sign there's only
one person on the

2992
03:51:16,160 --> 03:51:23,760
» commissioners can we um postpone for our
>> anything is there anybody want to talk

2993
03:51:22,479 --> 03:51:28,479
about anything under communications
Shelley as well anybody want to

2994
03:51:27,279 --> 03:51:32,000
have any further conversation [snorts]
on any of those items or can we

2995
03:51:30,640 --> 03:51:36,720
» move on to public comments
>> page So, let's move on to public hands.

2996
03:51:34,239 --> 03:51:40,520
» Okay. All right. Is there any public
left for public comments?

2997
03:51:42,535 --> 03:51:44,555
[laughter]

2998
03:51:49,680 --> 03:51:56,359
» Yes, it's going to be worth the wait.
uh

2999
03:51:57,520 --> 03:52:07,359
» will uh start contemplating a moratorium
on meetings lasting longer than 10:00.

3000
03:52:04,960 --> 03:52:10,160
» Really my fault, my responsibility.
>> Okay, we'll blame you for it.

3001
03:52:09,199 --> 03:52:16,279
» Yep.
>> Uh again, the data center issue

3002
03:52:17,040 --> 03:52:21,319
» for uh

3003
03:52:22,399 --> 03:52:30,479
Handing of the
AI

3004
03:52:26,800 --> 03:52:36,600
development agenda was
unilaterally handed over to Oracle.

3005
03:52:38,160 --> 03:52:46,479
There's some problems with Oracle uh and
particularly their association with

3006
03:52:44,080 --> 03:52:51,800
Palunteer.
Uh they are trying to set up a

3007
03:52:51,920 --> 03:52:54,920
systemated

3008
03:52:56,160 --> 03:53:02,960
or I don't know what's going on here.
>> You might be tired.

3009
03:53:01,520 --> 03:53:10,160
» Sorry. [snorts]
>> That's true. Uh yeah, and on the

3010
03:53:06,800 --> 03:53:18,840
surveillance system uh and
uh we are currently being gaslit into

3011
03:53:14,239 --> 03:53:18,840
thinking that it uh this AI

3012
03:53:20,640 --> 03:53:27,920
agenda is something that we are
demanding.

3013
03:53:25,520 --> 03:53:35,199
We are being told you know this is all
gaslighting. We are being told we need

3014
03:53:29,840 --> 03:53:41,520
it. Uh the actual
uh over I think it's over 95% of the

3015
03:53:38,640 --> 03:53:47,199
projected use of AI centers is not going
to be by the average consumer. It's

3016
03:53:44,479 --> 03:53:52,720
going to be by government and business
operating together. Now,

3017
03:53:51,120 --> 03:54:01,279
I don't know if you know your history
very well, but uh Bonito Mussolini was

3018
03:53:55,520 --> 03:54:08,399
very clear about the merging of business
uh government and the military.

3019
03:54:05,326 --> 03:54:16,279
[cough and clears throat] And uh that
seems to to be what we're seeing here is

3020
03:54:10,479 --> 03:54:16,279
that uh there seems to be a

3021
03:54:16,560 --> 03:54:25,359
eagerness to
accommodate the demands of corporate

3022
03:54:22,479 --> 03:54:31,960
entities while being essentially
indifferent to the real concerns of real

3023
03:54:28,960 --> 03:54:31,960
people.

3024
03:54:32,560 --> 03:54:41,279
And
there are already many problematic

3025
03:54:37,680 --> 03:54:46,399
aspects of uh AI that are starting to
manifest

3026
03:54:42,800 --> 03:54:53,840
particularly with the phenomenon called
loss of control incident

3027
03:54:49,520 --> 03:54:58,399
where they're finding that this uh now
you've heard the argument AI is just a

3028
03:54:55,760 --> 03:55:03,680
tool. Well,
you know, a hammer is just a tool. A

3029
03:55:00,960 --> 03:55:08,160
shovel is just a tool.
But a hammer and a shovel can't think

3030
03:55:06,319 --> 03:55:14,000
for itself. Can't make its own
decisions. [clears throat] It requires

3031
03:55:10,080 --> 03:55:22,560
somebody to manipulate it.
This ability to manipulate has been lost

3032
03:55:17,439 --> 03:55:29,279
in numerous instances. and they've seen
instances of what we could legitimately

3033
03:55:27,199 --> 03:55:35,279
label as
expressions of evil where AI has

3034
03:55:33,760 --> 03:55:39,359
uh
talked teenagers into committing

3035
03:55:36,960 --> 03:55:49,439
suicide.
uh tried to uh blackmail a uh a tech

3036
03:55:46,080 --> 03:55:53,680
manager when it found out that the tech
manager was planning on disabling the

3037
03:55:51,520 --> 03:55:58,160
AI.
Uh

3038
03:55:55,279 --> 03:56:03,840
there's a lot more to this AI business
than we are being told.

3039
03:56:00,960 --> 03:56:10,479
uh and
the notion that

3040
03:56:06,319 --> 03:56:18,239
uh we have to keep up with China in the
AI race when we already have 10 times

3041
03:56:14,160 --> 03:56:21,840
more data centers than China and China
has three times the population that we

3042
03:56:20,239 --> 03:56:29,600
do.
So, uh, I don't know if it's our al

3043
03:56:26,080 --> 03:56:34,399
algorithms are deficient or the Chinese
just know how to

3044
03:56:32,080 --> 03:56:39,279
make more intelligence out of a smaller
amount of data.

3045
03:56:36,633 --> 03:56:44,399
[clears throat] But, uh, when it comes
down to it,

3046
03:56:41,199 --> 03:56:48,319
AI cannot do the hard real work of the
world. Uh,

3047
03:56:46,720 --> 03:56:52,160
» 10 seconds.
Well, you've seen some of these robots

3048
03:56:50,399 --> 03:56:57,680
try to do things and it looks
ridiculous, but beware of AI, beware of

3049
03:56:54,960 --> 03:57:02,560
Palunteer, beware of Oracle.
>> Thank you,

3050
03:57:00,319 --> 03:57:08,160
» Rebecca Sebring, historical marshall.
You guys did a great job to the council.

3051
03:57:04,880 --> 03:57:14,960
Thank you. You were rocking it. Thank
you for protecting us and looking out

3052
03:57:10,319 --> 03:57:18,720
for our interest. Um, I just I'm totally
opposed to the data center. Honestly,

3053
03:57:16,880 --> 03:57:22,720
it's going to have children will have
heart attacks. You'll have early onset

3054
03:57:20,720 --> 03:57:27,040
dementia,
all kinds of stuff. Um, and there is a

3055
03:57:25,600 --> 03:57:31,439
data center in the center of town, but
it's a different type. It's been there

3056
03:57:28,880 --> 03:57:37,279
for many years. Just saying. All your
solar panels and the mega site with its

3057
03:57:34,319 --> 03:57:41,279
now armed military.
And there's Oh, by the way, my intel

3058
03:57:39,439 --> 03:57:46,000
people on from the inside tell me
there's huge rooms that only the Chinese

3059
03:57:43,439 --> 03:57:49,520
can go in. You don't know exactly what's
on that site. Apparently, the city

3060
03:57:48,000 --> 03:57:54,560
council bought the burm and the
drainage. Why don't we take that

3061
03:57:51,840 --> 03:57:59,359
military stance burm and you know what
I'm talking about. Take that baby right

3062
03:57:56,720 --> 03:58:05,120
down. Flatten it. It'll be cheaper in
the future anyways. And you'll be able

3063
03:58:01,680 --> 03:58:12,080
to see what's going on there.
>> They're here.

3064
03:58:07,600 --> 03:58:17,560
» Thank you you guys. You did a great job
for you guys.

3065
03:58:13,199 --> 03:58:17,560
» All right. A point of order.

3066
03:58:20,160 --> 03:58:27,840
Laura Valentine,
resident of Marshall,

3067
03:58:24,720 --> 03:58:33,840
teacher, local artist.
I am not for this data center and I'm

3068
03:58:31,520 --> 03:58:44,640
not for the ram and cram methods that
the MA does. And I am also aware that if

3069
03:58:39,120 --> 03:58:50,399
you look up the authority of our MA with
Lancing, that authority has been

3070
03:58:47,439 --> 03:58:55,239
stripped since 2019
to make purchase agreements.

3071
03:58:55,600 --> 03:59:05,199
Look that up.
The Ram and CRA method

3072
03:59:01,680 --> 03:59:13,239
isn't welcome here. We are Marshall and
we don't want our ambiance of beautiful

3073
03:59:09,520 --> 03:59:13,239
small town Marshall.

3074
03:59:15,600 --> 03:59:25,199
Okay, imagine being on
a beach and

3075
03:59:22,160 --> 03:59:33,199
your toddler has a bucket of very muddy
sand and the toddler decides to open

3076
03:59:29,680 --> 03:59:40,880
that bucket up and dump it on your other
toddler.

3077
03:59:35,760 --> 03:59:46,560
Well, this this data center you you
might as well we all are under that

3078
03:59:43,120 --> 03:59:51,040
bucket. We are all under the bucket.
Okay, the data center is not just mass

3079
03:59:49,359 --> 03:59:55,120
surveillance.
It's

3080
03:59:53,040 --> 04:00:02,160
okay. There's many other reasons why we
have a data center to track money

3081
03:59:58,880 --> 04:00:07,920
that's been paid
nefariously to certain people in all

3082
04:00:05,680 --> 04:00:15,405
levels of government
to track pedophiles

3083
04:00:11,920 --> 04:00:20,080
in all levels
[snorts]

3084
04:00:16,080 --> 04:00:24,399
of state and local schools, churches,
government

3085
04:00:22,080 --> 04:00:32,800
communities.
So that bucket of mud is going over all

3086
04:00:28,080 --> 04:00:38,239
of us. And did we ask for it?
Maybe it's a need that's necessary as

3087
04:00:35,840 --> 04:00:47,000
far as state and federal,
but is it legal

3088
04:00:42,000 --> 04:00:47,000
for our right to privacy?

3089
04:00:47,439 --> 04:00:56,760
Is it legal to premeditate the property
damage of school properties

3090
04:00:58,399 --> 04:01:07,520
because those schools are only maybe
less than a mile away and I am a

3091
04:01:05,040 --> 04:01:13,199
certified teacher and I've substitute
taught most of my career away help while

3092
04:01:10,880 --> 04:01:19,439
helping everyone else and raising my own
family and now I'm home health caring my

3093
04:01:15,840 --> 04:01:26,160
parents at the age of 88 and 90 and my
mom has COPD. My dad, they both have

3094
04:01:23,840 --> 04:01:33,520
bone on bone knees that my dad can't
see. So, the idea of more VOCC's in the

3095
04:01:30,640 --> 04:01:38,880
air,
not welcome for me. I don't want the

3096
04:01:36,560 --> 04:01:46,239
ambiance of
three lawnmowers running 247 while I'm

3097
04:01:43,040 --> 04:01:52,347
giving the the meat test to my students
at at Hughes Elementary School when I'm

3098
04:01:49,680 --> 04:01:56,160
substitute teaching.
[clears throat]

3099
04:01:53,600 --> 04:02:01,760
I don't want it. I don't think any
teacher wants it. I don't think any

3100
04:01:58,399 --> 04:02:09,800
parent wants it.
Thank you for standing up for us and

3101
04:02:04,800 --> 04:02:09,800
thank you for making

3102
04:02:09,920 --> 04:02:17,840
some fire happen
tonight.

3103
04:02:14,640 --> 04:02:22,319
» It was awesome. We need more of that.
>> Thank you.

3104
04:02:19,680 --> 04:02:30,120
» Any other comments?
Okay, commissioners, any comments?

3105
04:02:27,120 --> 04:02:30,120
Well,

3106
04:02:30,960 --> 04:02:36,640
» I brought cookies.
>> Okay. Well, good. That's great. That's

3107
04:02:34,000 --> 04:02:41,040
great. Um, the only thing I say is
again, I think having

3108
04:02:39,040 --> 04:02:45,199
» we scrambled to have two public hearings
on this meeting and it's a lot in one

3109
04:02:43,359 --> 04:02:48,960
meeting and along with everything else.
So, I take full responsibility for the

3110
04:02:47,199 --> 04:02:53,920
agenda. I'm just trying to make it
happen and u my apologies that it's

3111
04:02:51,359 --> 04:02:58,160
11:03. So, Rob, thank you for being
here. Thank you guys for sticking it all

3112
04:02:55,760 --> 04:03:02,000
out. Um, I'll pass it on.
>> Anybody want to make a motion to adjurnn

3113
04:03:00,000 --> 04:03:04,239
at 11:03?
>> Motion to adjurnn.

3114
04:03:03,040 --> 04:03:08,880
» Thank you.
>> At um 11:03 [snorts] and Buller. Okay.

3115
04:03:07,840 --> 04:03:14,760
» Steve and Steve.
>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

3116
04:03:10,720 --> 04:03:14,760
The meeting is adjourned at 11:03.