[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] Public hearing number one, which is a public hearing.
[0:29] And final assessment resolution for the Coral Gardens Waste Water Municipal Service benefit unit.
[0:38] Mr. Repedi.
[0:40] Good afternoon.
[0:45] We've got a little PowerPoint presentation.
[1:02] All right, ready?
[1:04] I know say good morning, but good afternoon.
[1:07] For the record, Leo Repedi with Martin County utilities on their text services administrator.
[1:12] Here's a speech talk about the Col Gardens Waste Water Assessment final public hearing.
[1:25] This is a vacuum-based septic-assure program to serve 631 single-family residences in the Col Gardens community.
[1:33] Col Gardens community is bounded by U.S. One in Willoughby, just south of Palmer.
[1:44] In addition to the MSBU, that's going to be part of the assessment to fund the project.
[1:51] The remaining funds come from an $8 million protecting Florida together, water quality grant, and about a million dollars in state revenue sharing funds, about a million and a half of F.P.L. franchise fees, and just over $400,000 in contributions from utilities.
[2:14] Here we go.
[2:19] The cost associated with this, just over $14 million dollars, when we did this project out, our engineer's cost estimate was $18.5 million.
[2:31] So the fact that this came in under the engineering cost estimate was encouraging that prices are stabilizing, and it gives us some hope for the future projects.
[2:42] And that we're not continuing this great escalation of construction prices.
[2:47] The total project roughly $18.1 million, when you take out the grant and the other contributions, the total assessment for this project is about $7.2 million.
[2:58] You take the $6.31 properties, divide into that $7.2 million, and each resident would pay $11,438.46, which is under the $12,000 cap that the board has asked us to provide.
[3:17] We have state revolving fund financing at 1.83% and for those who don't do their prepayment, they be put on their tax bill for 20 years.
[3:29] So the 1.3% helps keep that number down low.
[3:37] The typical modern county utility resident, we have about 40,000 water customers, the average of about 6,000 gallons.
[3:45] So if a customer currently connects it to water, which I think all but maybe one or two in coal gardens is connected to water, they would have an increased water bill of about $51.
[3:58] That works better.
[4:00] A little bit about schedule, we last met with the board back on October 21st, since then in the past six weeks or so.
[4:07] We've had two public hearings, one of the community workshop, one to discuss specifically the assessment process.
[4:15] We answered questions, we passed out frequently asked questions, flyers.
[4:20] And joining the mood was upbeat and positive about having this come into into their neighborhood.
[4:26] Today December 9th should this be approved by the Board of County Commissioners.
[4:31] Our next step would be to award the construction contract, which is a later item on the departmental and we would then start the process of getting shop drawings and approvals and things like that.
[4:45] That bonds what not with the contractor with an anticipated construction start of February of next year.
[4:52] And the duration is about 18 months, which puts it early summer of 2027.
[5:00] The lump sum payments assessment would be due.
[5:06] The August 1st or 15th, I've got two numbers of 2027, and if they choose to spread out over the 20 years, it would be on there November 2027 tax bill.
[5:19] So, in closing, staff recommends that the Board adopted the final assessment resolution to create the Coral Gardens Municipal,
[5:25] the wastewater municipal service benefit unit, and that the Board authorized the county administrator or designated to execute any documents related to the request.
[5:33] And if any questions are be happy to answer them.
[5:36] Questions?
[5:41] I have two requests to speak forms from the public.
[5:44] The first is Mary Gavin. Do you want to speak on this item?
[5:47] It's not on this item.
[5:48] Okay. What item is it on?
[5:51] On the ground field.
[5:52] Okay. Then Dustin Bishop.
[6:03] Hello, everyone. My name is Dustin Bishop, and I do reside in Coral Gardens.
[6:08] They did a wonderful job with their presentation.
[6:11] Sorry, I'm a little taller than I think the last person that was here.
[6:15] They did a wonderful job coming and presenting to us.
[6:18] They did it in the workshop. They answered all of the questions that we had.
[6:22] We live at the very end of Coral Gardens.
[6:25] So the footprint that comes over will be ends in my driveway.
[6:28] So one of our main concerns was with the children, because that's why we bought the house 20 plus years ago.
[6:34] And he cleared that up for us.
[6:36] You know, there were still e-gates all along there, so the children of still be safe.
[6:41] I am for this 100%.
[6:44] I could be paying the full amount of it without the grant.
[6:47] They wouldn't bother me. I would still be for it.
[6:49] But I don't understand why anybody would be against this, knowing that right now,
[6:54] there is a grant that offsets a large portion of that amount of money.
[6:58] House bill, I think it was 1378.
[7:00] Specifies we got to convert anyway by 2030.
[7:04] So we can either pay for it.
[7:06] Now, at a reduced rate, or in five years, we got to do the same thing at a higher rate.
[7:11] It doesn't make any sense.
[7:13] I'm 100% for this. Thank you guys for your time.
[7:17] I hope this gets approved.
[7:19] Thank you for the effort that you put into it.
[7:21] He had a few naysayers, but a lot of that was communication that I think the real estate agent
[7:28] didn't give to him when they moved into the community less than a year ago.
[7:32] We all know this is coming. I've got plenty of documentation stating this.
[7:37] I've got plenty of documentation saying when this meeting was.
[7:40] When the meeting was for at the college.
[7:44] So I hope you guys will approve this.
[7:47] It means a lot to us.
[7:49] And also, we do care about Indian River Lagoon as well for kayakers.
[7:54] It knows us, we're scouters. So we've done this for many years.
[7:57] We took many scouts out.
[7:59] So looking forward to clean waterways as well, so that we can have a safe time with our friends and family and scouters.
[8:05] So thank you all.
[8:07] You're a model resident.
[8:09] Yes.
[8:10] Come back often.
[8:12] What are other neighborhoods, too?
[8:15] Commissioner Heatherington.
[8:17] I was just going to say, this is a long-awaited project.
[8:20] And I want to thank staff for, as you just heard Dustin just say,
[8:24] you did a phenomenal job in educating and communicating all the different aspects of this project to the community.
[8:34] You made my job really easy.
[8:36] And the community is, I think, by and large, very much in support and look forward to the project being under construction and completed.
[8:45] And then our road paving to be done.
[8:48] So I would gladly motion staff's recommendation for approval.
[8:53] Just briefly to say, job well done from staff.
[8:59] I'm very happy for the folks in Coral Gardens.
[9:02] Looking forward to having this exact same conversation about pump city.
[9:08] And pump city.
[9:11] And pump city.
[9:13] That's great that the prices are modulating somewhat.
[9:19] Yeah, it really, it surprises.
[9:21] You put out your best foot forward as county staff.
[9:24] We don't want to be the lowest bitter.
[9:26] So this worked out that we got some good pricing.
[9:30] And they're pricing between the first and the second lowest bitter.
[9:34] We're within a few percent of each other.
[9:36] So we got some good tight beds.
[9:37] It wasn't an anomaly.
[9:39] And the bitter.
[9:40] Felix civil construction believe is the same entity that did the north of the shores vacuum project.
[9:46] So they have experience.
[9:48] And they're a solid qualified contractor to do this work.
[9:53] Fantastic.
[9:54] That means that we'll get good bids for the next project.
[9:56] And I don't mean to discount the folks that financially.
[9:59] This is I mean we're happy.
[10:01] And I know that most people are happy.
[10:02] And I get that not everyone can just easily afford this.
[10:05] But I think in the big picture for the neighborhood, the value of the neighborhood.
[10:09] And the individual homes.
[10:11] It's important to do.
[10:12] I know it can be a financial hardship for some.
[10:15] But you have to continue to bring these projects forward both environmentally.
[10:19] And I think just for the betterment of the community.
[10:21] So we get that not everyone is in love with the idea.
[10:24] But I think universally it's the right strategy.
[10:27] And the the $754 a year and the assessment is about two dollars a day.
[10:32] Yeah.
[10:33] Yes.
[10:35] Commissioner Caps.
[10:37] I also want to thank staff.
[10:39] I know you guys have been working on this for probably several years.
[10:44] Great job.
[10:46] And I also want to thank the more senior members of this board for making.
[10:51] Sceptic to sewer a priority in Martin County.
[10:55] You know.
[10:56] I've only been here a year.
[10:58] And.
[10:59] But this was set as a priority.
[11:02] By some of.
[11:04] By predecessors.
[11:06] And I.
[11:07] I think it was a is a very.
[11:09] A lot of a goal.
[11:11] And it's going to do a lot to help our waterways.
[11:14] So thank you.
[11:15] To the rest of you.
[11:17] Any other questions or comments.
[11:20] There's a motion in a second all those in favor.
[11:22] I opposed that motion passes unanimously.
[11:25] Thank you very much.
[11:26] Thank you.
[11:27] We will backtrack to.
[11:29] Board and committee appointments.
[11:32] Shall we to community redevelop an agency.
[11:35] Agency chair and vice chair designations.
[11:39] We'll take that we'll take that up when she gets here.
[11:43] We'll take up something else.
[11:48] You okay doing it on your own.
[11:50] Sure.
[11:53] Oh, you don't want that.
[11:56] You're going to pull the microphone.
[12:06] You the board of county commissioners will designate a member of the CRA as the chair and a member as the vice chair.
[12:15] Okay, current vice chair is Michael Redling.
[12:19] Yes.
[12:20] And.
[12:21] Chairman is Robert Krebs.
[12:24] I would make a motion that we elevate the vice chair.
[12:27] Michael Redling to become the chair.
[12:30] Second.
[12:31] There's a motion in a second all those in favor.
[12:33] I opposed that motion passes unanimously and vice chair.
[12:37] How do we go about this?
[12:39] I think we'd have to hear from Susan on like.
[12:42] I've always felt that this this in particular, this group.
[12:47] Should advance.
[12:49] Recommendation to us otherwise we just I see she's coming.
[12:55] She's Clyde's plan D.
[12:58] You know he's blocking her.
[13:01] So we'll give her another minute.
[13:07] No, he's he's got about.
[13:11] Jim is holding the handle.
[13:13] Let's write to the front, please.
[13:16] We've already elected a chair.
[13:20] We've elevated Michael Redling to chair and we don't know what to do about vice chair.
[13:25] So I have a recommendation.
[13:27] Susan Cora is office of community development motion.
[13:30] Susan Cora has become vice.
[13:32] Please.
[13:33] So I would recommend Cynthia Hall.
[13:37] She has not been a vice chair or chair for years.
[13:41] And she does her term does go out to 29.
[13:44] Some of them only go to 27.
[13:46] Which might make it a little bit dicey next.
[13:48] I would make a motion that Cindy Hall become vice chair.
[13:51] I know her a long time.
[13:53] She's very involved in the community.
[13:55] She's very professional.
[13:57] Smart person would be an excellent.
[13:59] Elevation.
[14:00] Second.
[14:01] There's a motion and a second all those in favor.
[14:03] I opposed that motion passes unanimously.
[14:06] Thank you.
[14:07] Thank you.
[14:08] Yeah.
[14:09] We saw Clyde doing trying to like check you out of the out of the position in the lobby.
[14:13] And we noticed.
[14:15] We'll now go to public hearing number two, which is a public hearing to adopt notice of intent.
[14:20] Resolution required by section one nine seven.
[14:22] dot three six three two Florida statues for special assessments.
[14:28] Good afternoon.
[14:30] Good afternoon.
[14:31] Mr. Duncan.
[14:32] For the record, David Duncan senior project manager with the utilities and solid waste department.
[14:38] This is a public hearing to adopt the non-binding resolution declaring the boards intent to use the uniform method of collection for non-advalorum assessments.
[14:49] For a proposed series of special assessments that may be imposed.
[14:53] Within certain municipal service benefit units.
[14:56] To be established for road paving.
[14:59] Answer.
[15:00] Ancillary drainage, dredging, services, stormwater services facilities and water and wastewater projects.
[15:09] Section 197.3632, Florida statute requires that the county holds a public hearing and adopt the
[15:18] resolution of intent to use the uniform method of collection for any assessment program in a calendar
[15:24] year prior to any such collection.
[15:28] The resolution, which does not obligate the county, either to use the uniform method of collection or to impose
[15:36] any one special assessment, must be adopted by January 1st, 2026, and send to the tax collector,
[15:44] the property appraiser, and the Department of Revenue by January 10th of 2026. Additionally,
[15:51] Section 197.3632 requires that the notice of public hearing to adopt the resolution of intent
[15:59] be published for four consecutive weeks immediately proceeding the date of the hearing.
[16:05] The notice of intent was properly advertised and the affidavit of publication of the
[16:11] intent will be part of this resolution. The notice of intent allows the county to meet its statutory
[16:19] notice requirements necessary to use the uniform collection method. The resolution to be adopted
[16:25] today is a non-binding and the board may reduce the geographic area covered by any feature assessment
[16:35] or decide not to impose any special assessment at a later date. By adopting the resolution,
[16:41] the board is simply preserving the right to use the uniform collection method beginning in November
[16:47] of 2026 for projects implemented prior to such date. Staffs recommendation is for the board
[16:54] to accept the public comment and adopt the resolution of intent to use the uniform method of collection
[17:00] for non-advalorum assessments that concludes my presentation. Let's just for Mr. Duncan, Commissioner
[17:08] caps. So what would be the other option? Not that I am inclined to think that it would be the
[17:16] best I just want to know about. Like you have to apparently express your intent to use the uniform
[17:25] method of collection is there another way we can go on this that would be based not that's not
[17:32] uniform perhaps it would be based on the value of the homes and the community or something like that.
[17:38] How would that work?
[17:40] Are a method we use? Is there it appears that there might be other options besides this or not really?
[17:53] I'm not really. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
[17:55] Okay. We typically use a uniform method because it goes on the tax roll.
[18:00] Right. There's all the benefiting properties equally in the same rate if you will. Right.
[18:06] Same fee and allows us to do it over time. So even a 10 year or 15 year or 20 year assessment.
[18:12] But that's the typical method that we've used historically.
[18:16] If there's other methods, not quite familiar with it but this was common for local government.
[18:21] Right. It would seem to me that maybe if there is an alternative method that it perhaps would be
[18:28] based on the value of the houses or something like say say you have a couple of muck mansions on the street
[18:34] and then a couple of modest homes on the street and a uniform would mean they're all paying the same
[18:40] and not uniform would probably mean that they're paying a different as says went based upon the value of the property.
[18:46] Perhaps. Yeah. So Commissioner this is for a municipal services benefit units which is
[18:53] the when we're looking at the project the property itself is is calculated as the benefit.
[19:01] You know whether it's a sewer line or pavement and then there's some or drainage there's a calculation that the
[19:07] size of the lot might play into it or the amount of front footage or you know we have we develop what's called a
[19:15] standard unit that you would apply and in order to use to put it on the tax roll.
[19:24] This advertisement and this list of projects in order to go on next year's tax roll has to be
[19:30] advertised this way. So for instance coral gardens which you just heard a few minutes ago
[19:36] had was included in our list at this hearing last year in December so that it could be considered to be an
[19:43] MSBU project. And so these are all individual where we're assessing the property based upon the benefit
[19:51] there are MSTUs which we have in our budget which are derived a taxable unit which is based upon
[19:58] a praise value and it has different rules on how you can spend the funds if that's what you're looking at.
[20:03] Yeah that's kind of what I'm getting at the difference between the MSTU and the MSBU.
[20:10] Okay that's interesting thank you. Any further questions would anyone from the public like to address this?
[20:16] There are motionals of staff's recommendation for approval.
[20:22] Second. There's a motion in a second all those in favor. I oppose that motion passes unanimously. Thank you Mr. Duncan.
[20:30] Okay we'll now move on to public hearing number three which is adoption of resolution approving the surplus
[20:41] disposition of county on property located at the northwest corner of southwest Martin Highway
[20:47] and southwest Palm City School Avenue in Palm City. Good afternoon commissioners.
[20:53] Sebastian Fox senior assistant county attorney for the record. This is a public hearing to consider
[20:59] adoption of a resolution approving the surplus disposition of county on property located at
[21:07] 3,500 southwest Palm City School Avenue. A bit of history on this parcel back in March of 24.
[21:14] The board directed staff to prepare a request for a proposal for the sale of this property. In January of
[21:21] 25 the board approved a preliminary RFP to designate the property as surplus and to pursue the sale
[21:28] and redevelopment of the property pursuant to CRA guidelines. And on July of 2025 the board accepted
[21:35] a proposal from the Middle East building group for the sale and development of the property.
[21:41] The properties currently under contract with an anticipated closing date at the end of January.
[21:47] This item has been properly advertised per floor statutes and staff would request that the board
[21:53] adopt the resolution proving the surplus disposition of this county on property and authorize the
[21:59] county administrator or designate to execute all documents related to their request including
[22:05] but not limited to the county deed and other closing documents. I'm happy to answer any questions.
[22:10] Commissioners may have. Mr. Canby. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Fox for that recap.
[22:16] To remind the residents this was a piece of property that was going to have a development on it that was
[22:23] really a lot of people felt out of character for that specific portion of Pomp City.
[22:30] Our staff along with a handful of others got together and were able to work out. I think a real strong
[22:39] opportunity for the residents the county held onto some of it that gave us access to
[22:45] Danforth Creek which we were sorely lacking for maintenance. Egress and Egress and now we were able to
[22:55] create the deal for the property that's in the works. Again, thanks to real property and legal for putting that together
[23:04] and this is just the next logical step in the process. I would make a motion to accept staff's recommendation.
[23:10] Second. Would anyone from the public like to address this? Is this a different size of
[23:17] than the partial that we approved on July 8th? No. And can you can somebody describe to me
[23:26] the map? The partial boundary on page 243 explained the presumably the part that's in
[23:35] green is the county's parcel? Yeah, there's a portion to the west of South West Newbury
[23:42] Court that's going to be conveyed back to the county at closing by quick claim deed. There's some
[23:48] easements that are going to be running over that property for the benefit of the property east of
[23:54] Newbury Court and that's sliver right there is what will allow for the maintenance of the creek. That's
[24:00] Commissioner reference. Okay. Madam charges to one other question while we hear some residents of the
[24:07] neighborhood behind it had mentioned that they had heard that Newbury Court, the Southwest Newbury Court
[24:15] has there's a possibility that it would be closed. That's not that's not the thing, right?
[24:20] If you'm Gordon Public Works Director, no, there's no intent to close Southeast Newbury Court.
[24:26] There is likely to be a connection from Newbury over to Palm City School, which will allow the
[24:33] neighbors on Newbury to exit at a signalized intersection, which will make it a lot easier for them to go
[24:39] east, county road some 14, but there is no intent to close that road. And the future owner of the property
[24:47] won't have the ability to close that road separate from us, correct? No, they won't have the ability to
[24:51] be thank you very much. Any further questions? Is there a motion in a second? I think there is.
[24:57] There's a motion in a second all those in favor. I opposed that motion passes unanimously. Thank you.
[25:04] We'll now move on to public hearing number four, which is a legislative public hearing to consider
[25:11] transmittal of comprehensive plan amendment 25-04, accessory dwelling units, a text amendment.
[25:20] Good afternoon, Ms. Off and Boc. Hello, again, my name is Amy Off and Boc,
[25:26] planner with the growth management department. This is comprehensive plan amendment 25-04,
[25:34] proposed text amendments for accessory dwelling units, otherwise known as ADUs.
[25:41] This was initiated by the Board of County Commissioners in the furtherance of providing
[25:46] affordable housing and proof of public notice was turned in at the local planning agency on December 4th.
[25:57] So the request is to change chapter two and chapter four of the comprehensive growth management plan,
[26:04] and this is just a brief overview of the proposed changes and staff would be happy to go into further
[26:11] detail after the presentation if needed. So in chapter two of the comprehensive plan,
[26:19] the term accessory dwelling units will be updated and this represents living quarters on single family
[26:27] lots and a new term employee dwelling units will be added to describe living quarters on non-residential
[26:34] properties and this term will be replacing an outdated term further in the plan that describes
[26:46] living quarters on for night watchman's quarters or custodians' quarters.
[26:55] So in chapter four of the complaint in under goal 4.9, a policy will be added for accessory dwelling units
[27:02] containing the criteria for accessory dwelling units and this will replace multiple instances
[27:09] of ADU criteria elsewhere in the plan and also a policy will be added for employee dwelling units
[27:17] to represent non-residential properties. Under goal 4.13, a line of text will be added to
[27:26] allow ADUs in each future land use designation that allows single family dwellings,
[27:33] excluding the mobile home future land use and these are all the future land use designations that will
[27:41] allow them. Also under goal 4.13, ADUs will be permitted on non-residential future land use designations
[27:52] that have historically permitted night watchman's quarters or custodians' quarters.
[28:03] And this is a legislative hearing that requires three public hearings. The first was on December 4,
[28:11] 2025 at the local planning agency and they voted for to zero in recommendation of approval.
[28:21] And this is the second public hearing, December 9, 2025, to consider transmittal to the state and local
[28:29] planning agencies and the third will be sometime in January 26 for approval.
[28:35] And so staff recommends approval of CPA25-04, accessory dwelling units on the basis that
[28:45] the proposed amendments are consistent with the comprehensive plan and Florida state statutes
[28:51] and more restrictive or burdens and requirements are not imposed prior to October 1, 2027.
[28:58] And lastly, the Affordable Housing Committee, Affordable Housing Advisory Committee,
[29:05] where AACC has supported the staff's recommendation. And this concludes the presentation.
[29:11] We'd be happy to answer any additional questions. Mr. Caps.
[29:17] I spoke to the county attorney about this issue, but I thought perhaps it might be good to mention it publicly.
[29:27] You know, there are a lot of people in the county who already have a guest house and a guest house
[29:33] can be half a size of the main house and it's not supposed to be rented. It's supposed to be used for temporary
[29:44] living quarters for family and guests. It's a guest house and it doesn't have a separate address
[29:52] or a separate mailbox or a separate water meter or a separate...
[30:00] A separate electric bill, it's all kind of the main, part of the main house. And that's the way the guest house works. And there are quite a few of them in the county now. If this were to pass, would those people be able to come in and convert theirs to an accessory dwelling unit, which is different, where you get to rent it out to someone, you can get a second mailbox.
[30:30] A second water bill, a separate electric bill, and legally rent the place out. And so what happens to the guest houses that perhaps someone might want to turn into an ADU?
[30:46] Essentially, staff will be bringing forward some proposed tax amendments to the land development regulations and the accessory dwelling units or ADUs will replace the term guest house.
[30:59] And so these are the criteria that will be included in that land development regulations, which is already in the complaint right now with some additions like compatible with Florida building codes.
[31:16] But, essentially, we're not taking away any rights.
[31:21] Right. And other, they will be able to be rented out.
[31:24] Right. It's supposed to be some procedural process. They would have to come in and fill out papers and maybe pay some fees or something. No. They would just call FBL and say, hey, I would like a separate electric bill and call their water utility.
[31:41] It's like I would like to water bill separated. Now, you know, and just take this deal directly with those.
[31:49] Commissioner. I dolin for the record comprehensive planning administrator.
[31:53] Currently, neither guest houses nor the proposed regulations for ADUs deal with the issues of separate address or separate electrical or separate utilities.
[32:05] Currently, if you have a guest house, you can have a separate address. If you have a guest house, you could have a separate utility feed from FPL.
[32:15] These regulations have not in the past nor there are other we planning to get into regulating those specifics.
[32:21] Okay. So there's nothing really they have to do procedurally to basically treat it as an ADU direct.
[32:32] And then I was thinking there are some other limitations on how ADUs would apply, you know, they don't, they don't apply and home on our association, right?
[32:47] Homeowner association has its own regulations and rules regarding that. What we're working on here are the county's comprehensive plan policies and at a future public hearing will be bringing you the regulations for the land development regulations that are applicable
[33:01] but HOA rules are separate and unrelated. Okay. And then if someone wanted to build an ADU, they would have to honor all of our setback rules and lot size rules and that kind of thing.
[33:17] Yes. All land development regulations will be have to comply through the building department at permitting on the screen.
[33:27] Amy has up the some specific requirements for ADUs that are being put into the comp plan with this proposed change.
[33:35] Only one permitted ADU for each single family dwelling. It shall not exceed one half the square footage of the primary dwelling, which is the same kind of language as we've required for guest houses all along.
[33:49] And ADUs shall not count as the separate unit for purposes of density and neither of the ADU nor the land is occupied, so we sold or conveyed separately from the primary dwelling since it is an accessory to and it must be a part of it can't be separated from the primary dwelling.
[34:07] Thank you.
[34:09] Mr. Vargas. Yeah. I'm familiar with these.
[34:14] Susry dwelling units. I just have a couple of questions if the primary property is on well and septic. How do you handle that? Is that a health department thing?
[34:25] Yes. The health department would do the permitting for well and septic.
[34:30] And what about driveways? You know, people have cars. They have to park them somewhere. How does that work in a neighborhood? That's not deed restricted.
[34:39] In the same way that it would be dealt with on the single family dwelling because this is really just an extension of and a part of the single family dwelling.
[34:47] So then they would have to ask for a permit to pave.
[34:53] Take out grass, put it in a driveway.
[34:57] If a driveway is needed, if additional driveway is needed, then yes they would.
[35:01] And they make applications through the county to do that. Okay.
[35:05] You know, because I can change the character of a neighborhood tremendously.
[35:13] Yeah. It can. The other thing is, is there a limitation or regulation, the number of people in a home?
[35:20] I mean, you can have a two bedroom. I understand half the size of the principal residents understand the six people living there. How does that work?
[35:29] The definition of family is found in our land development regulations.
[35:34] And then a future public hearing will be discussing a internal consistency or making the definition the same in all of our zoning districts.
[35:43] But typically it's the definition is any number of people related by blood or marriage and five unrelated persons is the definition of family.
[35:56] But that's my paraphrase of the definition of course. I'm not reading it verbatim.
[36:01] Okay. On a single property. Right. So today we're we're not addressing that issue. We're going to have another hearing. Is that what I'm understanding?
[36:09] Yes. The land development regulations will need to be amended to implement these particular compound policies and additional specificity and detail will be found in the land development regulations.
[36:21] Okay. So this is just a preliminary. Do we want to allow them in the county?
[36:26] This is correct. A proposed amendments to the comprehensive plan, which the land development regulations implement. So these are just broad rules basically for land development regulation.
[36:39] And then once we get to the LDR changes will go into more specific standards for development.
[36:48] I understand the board will then have a presentation as well. Yes.
[36:53] Or would say all right. And this will come back to this is just for a transcendental to the state to review and then we'll come back with this one also.
[37:06] Mr. Kempie.
[37:08] Thank you madam chair. I'm very pleased that we're here today.
[37:14] I'd like to thank Robert Neri who's sitting out there who I know he and a group of citizens professionals and stakeholders that I've had the advantage to participate in have been working on.
[37:28] I'm fearful when we say affordable housing. It has a connotation that people think it's like public projects or government owned.
[37:35] I'm thinking more of housing that is affordable instead of affordable housing.
[37:41] We have had issues for many, many years of specifically in Martin County, the way that we have structured our overall sort of residential philosophy had made it difficult for people to build you know housing that's affordable.
[37:58] We call it essential housing or there's also the concept that the only way you can really make those business decisions work is with density increased density and that's not really something that universally Martin County residents are super interested in to do that.
[38:15] You would have to create these large scale projects, not that there are not some that are very well done and hopefully in the future we'll be discussing small scale versions of something beyond one at a time.
[38:29] But when this had originally come up at a joint meeting and I was giving us sort of an analogy of the person that was throwing starfish back into the water if you remember.
[38:42] There's an old story about this guy is walking on the beach and he sees a kid throwing starfish into the ocean and the beach is littered with starfish and he says what are you doing he's like well I'm trying to save the starfish and the man says well you know it's not going to make a difference there's thousands of starfish on the beach and the boy throws another one into the ocean because well I made a bit I made a difference for that one.
[39:04] And so I look at what we're doing here incrementally this ADU is just another opportunity we're not going to solve the housing issue affordability issue in Martin County, but for us to look at the issue so large that we say we're paralyzed to do anything.
[39:21] And I know that it started as a grassroots but the staff and quite often the meetings that we had some I participated in some I didn't.
[39:30] The staff really embraced it and you know community members can have an idea but staff has to do all the heavy lifting and you did and I know and you'll continue to do it so I really appreciate it.
[39:41] The advantage is to fold not only are you creating another opportunity for someone that either is working here to live here who grew up here to stay here and work in live here, but it's also an excellent opportunity for homeowners to create an additional income stream by creating this now some people as commissioner cap said some people have guest houses.
[40:08] All of us know someone there was renting something to somebody else above the garage or a back room or or something and having having to be sort of under the table with that allegedly.
[40:20] This gives those folks the opportunity to bring those projects forward and legitimize them with FPL with this health department for sanitation with the water with the IRS and whoever else might be wondering how does these things work.
[40:36] It creates opportunities for folks that are seeing their expenses get bigger and bigger with no especially people on fixed income or retirees which we have a tremendous amount of.
[40:47] And if in your mind you're thinking well they're going to build something in the backyard it's there's dozens of different variations that an accessory dwelling unit could be.
[40:58] And so it's not so much that I know that when I was talking to some people that live in hilton head and it's an island and so where do their staff where does the staff do they leave the island every single night that work on the island and they said no we live in frogs.
[41:17] What's a frog and a frog is a furnished room over garage.
[41:23] And in hilton head frogs have been a thing forever because that's just how they've solved that issue now for those of us that are leery of development and runaway development.
[41:35] Imagine if this was an opportunity that went through all of the LDR requirements and got you to the finish line let's say it's.
[41:44] A couple of thousand people in the whole entire county that's a couple of thousand units that no one will ever see you'll never drive down the street and be like oh my god look at this.
[41:56] This project it'll just sort of filter in and two thousand people or a couple of thousand people will have the opportunity to live and work reasonably right here I make a motion to accept staff's recommendation.
[42:12] So these accessory dwelling units don't count as any portion of a unit.
[42:20] Now and they can be they are separate living spaces they are equipped with kitchen and bathroom and bedroom facilities it can be attached or detached so let's say your land use is one unit per acre.
[42:40] And you have a three thousand square foot house on your acre and you build an accessory dwelling unit of 1500 square feet minute has.
[42:51] You know it's a separate unit with two bedrooms two baths and you're allowed one unit per acre on that acre but you've got one and a half houses.
[43:03] You have two houses yes that's correct.
[43:09] We're defining this as one house one house but it's not but it's not they're detached and we know that they have separate facilities it's in the desk it's in the definition it says they are equipped with kitchen and bathroom and bedroom facilities.
[43:25] And it also depends on the development standards if they can fit it within the setbacks and all the open space and if they have septic they have certain limits on that as well so and it doesn't include any.
[43:40] Any grages or portraits so it's on just air conditioned area.
[43:45] So look at the at the they're allowed in core.
[43:50] And the maximum building coverage she'll be 40% minimum that lot size permitted she'll be 10,000 square feet what if you're at that.
[44:00] What if you're at the max you mean if the existing residences at the max yes.
[44:05] Then it wouldn't be permitted okay.
[44:13] So say if you're marine waterfront commercial and you are at 20 units per gross acre it says that 180 you may be permitted as an accessory structure.
[44:28] It depends on what the property is developed with so marine water 20 units per acre say you're at the max it says that you're allowed an ADU.
[44:40] Yes that's correct if it's developed with a single family you can have 180 you per even though you're already at the max.
[44:47] Allow me to to back up just a second the marine waterfront commercial future land use designation that's implemented by the.
[44:56] The appropriate zoning district allows 10 residents who units per acre.
[45:00] So if you're doing ten units per acre, you're probably doing multi-family, you're not doing a bunch of single-family because you're not going to fit them all single-family units on there.
[45:16] And this is only permitted as an accessory to a single-family. So if by some stretch you could get say eight units per acre and they're all single-family,
[45:28] then yes, you would be able to do an accessory to each of those single-familys, because it is part of the single-family dwelling.
[45:36] Say you're on your setback as twenty feet. You're right at the your setback. Are you allowed an accessory dwelling in it?
[45:50] You would not be able to violate the setbacks in order to make this possible.
[45:56] Okay? If I might jump in, I would say more people that would want this probably will not qualify for one of the reasons that Commissioner heard is mentioning or not, then will.
[46:12] It's not going to be a floodgate. Like I think some people would like this, but they won't be able to, whether it's parking, setbacks, two thousand gallons per day, using up to more of the property than they're allowed.
[46:24] So I think it's an idea that people would be interested in, but I think we'll be saying no to as many people as more so then we would be saying yes. You have to have a very unique set of property circumstances for this to work.
[46:36] And also this provision shall not prohibit employee dwelling units on properties developed for non-residential uses like industrial.
[46:46] So let's talk about the employee dwelling unit. Commissioner, thank you for bringing that up.
[46:51] We have certain land use designations like marine waterfront commercial that are currently permitting night watchman's quarters.
[46:59] And we have land development regulations that implement that. We haven't had real good, you know, the language hasn't been really consistent between the LDR and the compound on that.
[47:08] And so we're we're cleaning up that language to use the the EDU in both cases and we're keeping the same standards for those night watchman's quarters as we had previously.
[47:20] In many respects, both on the night watchman's quarter or EDU issue and on the guest house or ADU issue.
[47:28] We are following very much the same standards, the same provisions that the compound and the LDRs have had previously.
[47:35] The major differences are in the ADU that the commissioner caps talked about and that is it can be rented.
[47:42] We're not except in the case like like one unit per acre, we're allowing two units per acre, even though the land use is clearly specifies that one unit is allowable.
[47:53] But we're now saying, ah, you can you can put two on there and the definition of family is any group of up to six persons occupying a single dwelling unit as a single housekeeping unit and sharing common facilities.
[48:11] Those people don't have to be related it turns it it allows for a full up house.
[48:18] So that has been permitted historically for many years and we can't do anything that's more restrictive or burdensome so we kept that language the same.
[48:30] Yeah, I'm on I'm on comfortable with this with these changes in policy and I know that you're going to have to come back to revise the LDRs in order to make them legal I suppose, but man that there are just way too many loopholes, blue poles in here for me.
[48:53] Yeah, I was looking here on page 282 and this is under development commercial office residential future land use second the last paragraph at the end and breakfast are other facilities for transient lodging.
[49:07] This is seasonal residential be permitted kitchen facilities to be permitted to accommodate occupants for visiting for periods exceeding the general motel trip duration of one to four nights.
[49:18] So what does that mean this is existing text in the comprehensive plan and we also have language in the LDRs that have specific standards for development of bed and breakfast is and so we are we're not making any changes here.
[49:37] But I see what you're saying chairwoman heard about this it's has a lot of loopholes.
[49:47] I saw this in another county a lot of residents did not appreciate the fact that there were quite a few individuals living in one unit and it wasn't regulated.
[50:02] I mean you know when I leave the property I put a regulation how many people could live there and and I don't see this here unless you can point it out to us or you're going to modify or you know.
[50:17] Make a mandate on this it's all fine everybody wants to live in town but we have to think of our neighborhoods as I say it's going to change the character unless this is is definitely a delineated.
[50:32] It's it's not prohibited now and so.
[50:36] If we did prohibit it we would be more restrictive or burdensome.
[50:41] For the SB 180.
[50:43] Yeah I'm familiar with that.
[50:46] I don't know.
[50:47] Would anyone from the public like to address us.
[50:50] Back to the board.
[50:52] Sure.
[50:54] This wasn't.
[50:58] Hi Mary Gavin I was formerly a member of the affordable housing committee I did not plan on speaking on this topic today but you know you all know I can't keep my mouth shut.
[51:09] I'm also landlord and Martin County we have my husband and I have about twenty tenets and.
[51:16] I actually have a guest house in my home and I have another property with the guest house and I guess a couple things it's not a separate parcel so it's not necessarily.
[51:25] It's not a separate property that that's the one point.
[51:28] You can't sell them separately and it would be very advantageous of course to have a separate water and separate electric but the real point is.
[51:37] Every day.
[51:39] Every day I get calls from somebody looking for an affordable rental and as an owner living next to a guest or whatever whatever the term is.
[51:51] I'm not going to have ten people living there and I can't imagine the majority of people that are renting these are giving them to their mother and law or my case I have a disabled son and that's who happens to live in my guest house.
[52:02] But I do have another one that is rented.
[52:05] I limited to one or two people and I would think that the majority of people that are going to invest in building this or doing this are going to be extremely consider about who's in their property they're not going to put ten people in their trash and.
[52:18] I'm afraid to raise my rents I have a raise them in five years because these people have absolutely nowhere to go.
[52:25] And if we don't have working people in this county but we're really going to be at a loss so I thank you for your time.
[52:33] Thanks.
[52:34] Mr. Vargas.
[52:35] Okay so I and I understand what you're saying about the math on the.
[52:40] I understand about the math because I have rentals also but what happens if you know they can't make.
[52:48] Trying to talk to you if they can't.
[52:51] Make their expenses I mean we're talking about a huge change that potentially is coming down the line next year.
[52:59] Where in.
[53:00] How does that work then you know it's your homestead property.
[53:04] One of them.
[53:06] With your son living there that's a family but the other one is not so your your taxes are probably going to increase.
[53:13] This is what I've heard and everybody I've spoken with in other counties.
[53:18] And certainly what's proposed in telehouse is so so what happens then.
[53:24] I mean you have raised your rent.
[53:28] I mean if you if you can make it work that's fine but.
[53:32] I don't know I just can you homestead an ADU.
[53:38] I don't know the answer to that I think that's a issue for the property prisoner in the state statute.
[53:44] That's true I mean you know it's it's fine it's it's an emotional issue but you've got to look at the facts.
[53:50] That's always dictate and it's not you know fluff and you know style it's not like that.
[53:58] I mean your business woman.
[54:00] Based on what you told us so.
[54:04] I know there's a motion is there a second.
[54:07] Second.
[54:08] There's a motion in a second all those in favor.
[54:11] I opposed opposed that motion carries three to two with commissioners Vargas and heard descending.
[54:17] Thank you.
[54:18] Thank you members of the board.
[54:19] We will now take up round fields.
[54:37] This is a quasi judicial.
[54:39] I'm sure is commissioner Vargas any expertise closures.
[54:44] If I have any.
[54:45] Commissioner caps.
[54:48] If I have any they have been filed.
[54:50] I also I went to the brownfield hearing and hope sound.
[54:54] I'm not sure calling.
[54:56] Noted that I think she probably did because I think I'm good.
[55:00] If I have anything been filed.
[55:02] I have some and they've been filed.
[55:04] Commissioner.
[55:05] I don't have any.
[55:06] You got any.
[55:07] I got emails.
[55:09] I got the emails.
[55:10] That's right.
[55:11] And I filed that commissioner.
[55:14] Anyone who's going to be providing sworn testimony.
[55:19] Please stand up raise your right hand and be sworn.
[55:23] Do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth.
[55:27] The whole truth and nothing but the truth.
[55:31] Ms. Nabe, have you provided your information to the clerk.
[55:35] Yes, Madam Chair, copy of my work history and the agenda item has been turned into the clerk.
[55:41] Please proceed.
[55:44] Good afternoon commissioners.
[55:46] My name is Jenna Nabe senior planner with the growth management department.
[55:50] And before you today is a request by the palms of hope sound LLC and Oasis development LLC.
[55:57] To designate a brownfield at nine four five zero southeast Gomez Avenue.
[56:03] This is the first of two public hearings for this designation request.
[56:08] And the second public hearing for the adoption of the resolution.
[56:12] That would designate this property as a brownfield is scheduled to be heard on January 6th, 2026.
[56:20] Section 376.80 of Florida statutes outlines the Brownfield program administration process and states that the jurisdictional local government.
[56:31] Shaladopter resolution designating the property as a brownfield if the requesting party establishes that all of the necessary criteria in statute have been met during these public hearings.
[56:46] Section 376.79 of Florida statutes defines Brownfields as real property the expansion redevelopment or reuse of which may be complicated by actual or perceived environmental contamination.
[57:01] And this property is located at nine four five zero southeast Gomez Avenue in hope sound.
[57:08] The site has a future land use designation of residential estate density which allows a maximum of two units per acre.
[57:15] And there are two different zoning designations over this property.
[57:19] The R2 and R2B zoning districts.
[57:23] And we'll go to the area of property.
[57:29] So this is an area of the subject property.
[57:33] And on the next page, this is the future land use map.
[57:37] And the zoning district. So the light blue district is the R2 and then the yellow is the R2B district.
[57:44] There is currently a minor site plan application that's in review with the growth management department for 38 single family residential units and associated amenities and infrastructure.
[57:57] So that's currently in review with our county staff.
[58:01] The Brownfields program is administered by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection or the FDEP.
[58:07] And they're the state agency that oversees this whole process.
[58:11] And once a property is designated as a Brownfield formally by the local government, then it's entered into the Brownfields program.
[58:20] And there are state-based incentives, financial incentives to promote the voluntary cleanup and remediation of these sites.
[58:29] And so if this property were to be designated as a Brownfield, then it would be eligible to become part of that program.
[58:37] The way that the statute is written for these two required public hearings.
[58:42] states that at least one of the hearings shall be held after 5 p.m. on a weekday unless the Board of County commissioners by a majority plus one vote.
[58:53] It likes to conduct that hearing at another time of day.
[58:57] So with that, our staff recommendation for this meeting is to.
[59:06] Move that the board receive and file the agenda item and its attachments including the staff report as exhibit one.
[59:12] And move that the board hold the second public hearing on the request to designate the property as a Brownfield on January 6th, 2026 at 9 a.m.
[59:21] or as soon after as the matter may be heard and prior to 5 o'clock p.m.
[59:26] And I know that the applicant is here to give a presentation and they will go over how this.
[59:33] The question meets the criteria so that concludes our presentation and we're available for any questions questions for staff.
[59:41] applicant please present.
[59:48] Good afternoon Madam chair and commissioners. My name is Michael Shnapps Tyler. I'm an environmental attorney with the law firm of Cobb Cole.
[59:56] I'll be each Florida here today with my colleague Jessica Gal on behalf of the applicant.
[1:00:00] Comments, oasis, development, and the palms at herbsound. I want to thank Jenna and the staff for their assistance
[1:00:07] and getting this matter before you have been fantastic to work with. The Brownfield statute has
[1:00:12] some very nuanced notice and hearing procedures, such as the item that Ms. Novigis mentioned
[1:00:18] about having one of the hearings after 5 p.m. and voting by supermajority to move it. So it's
[1:00:24] complicated, but it looks like we're all working well and moving through it.
[1:00:30] Ms. Novigis, on some of the key terms about Brownfields, but I am going to just talk a little bit
[1:00:34] about it because there was a change in the statutes since you last considered a Brownfoot area.
[1:00:38] It does a nation earlier this year. I'll talk specifically about the property and how it
[1:00:42] meets that five criteria that Ms. Novigis mentioned. And then we'll talk about the next steps,
[1:00:46] because I do know at our community meeting there was a lot of discussion at a lot of input on how
[1:00:53] the Brownfield process works and how will move this forward if the final adoption does occur
[1:00:58] on January 6th. Again, Ms. Novigis did a great job hitting the change in how the Brownfield
[1:01:05] program is defined before. There was only Brownfield sites and Brownfield areas, but effective
[1:01:10] January, I mean July 1st, we now have the term Brownfield, which is the old definition of Brownfield
[1:01:16] site. It's just a property that's having trouble being redeveloped because of an environmental
[1:01:21] contamination issue. A Brownfield area is one of more Brownfields that have been designated
[1:01:27] by a local government, like you all, by resolution, and then a Brownfield site, which is the old
[1:01:33] definition of Brownfield, is now the property that has moved into the Brownfield program by signing
[1:01:38] a voluntary cleanup agreement. Just some nuances there on how the terms and the program has changed a
[1:01:44] little bit since earlier this year when you all considered Brownfield. This is the property
[1:01:51] as staff had mentioned. It's a little under 19 and a half acres. It's a former flower nursery
[1:01:57] as was mentioned during public comment with chemical storage areas and packaging areas. And as
[1:02:03] Ms. Novigis mentioned, the proposed redevelopment is for residential uses. This is a figure that we
[1:02:11] found from one of our environmental consultants that just kind of shows how the site was laid out.
[1:02:16] There were flower packaging and chemical storage areas over here and then areas for growing
[1:02:23] of the flowers and plants on this side, a small pond and a small office. Our environmental
[1:02:31] investigations to date by our client have done a good job of defining where the extent of the issues
[1:02:39] are so that you have an understanding of where the contamination starts and stops. This slide just
[1:02:45] kind of shows an example of how they did some of the assessment. There's a little grid here
[1:02:49] that shows where the buildings were overlaid, how they tested the green in the legend or sample
[1:02:58] locations that previously occurred. The orange locations were sample locations at the time of this report
[1:03:09] and then the yellow were proposed additional sampling locations based on the results from that figure
[1:03:15] at that time because we have provided staff with some of the environmental reports and information
[1:03:20] about the progress. But in a nutshell, the primary constituents of concern at this site are pesticides
[1:03:28] and herbicides and fertilizers, arsenic and the aldrin as was mentioned earlier this morning. We've
[1:03:35] done a really good job of defining where it is in the soil so that we can have an understanding of what needs
[1:03:42] we remove to accommodate redevelopment and clean up of the site. We do need to do some additional
[1:03:49] groundwater sampling to determine where the contamination starts and stops. That's really where the
[1:03:53] Brownfield program comes in. It provides a regulatory framework for allowing someone to follow
[1:04:00] Florida's cleanup rules just like they were the responsible party that caused the issue. It's a very
[1:04:05] robust program, very specific policies, procedures, rules and regulations, a very, very dense
[1:04:12] part of the Florida Administrative Code is dedicated to assessment and cleanup of contaminated sites.
[1:04:19] There was some comments earlier about neighboring properties and all that and I will say the
[1:04:25] depth of groundwater ranges from about 17 feet on the western side of the property to six feet on the
[1:04:32] eastern side of the property and the groundwater, as you would expect, moves towards the
[1:04:36] intercostal from west to east. We don't think there is too big of a concern about contamination
[1:04:43] reaching to the north and to the south because the groundwater is moving in a different direction,
[1:04:49] but the Florida statutes do require notice when there is offsite contamination issues. The comment was
[1:04:58] made earlier that the residents weren't notified. That's because the assessment done to date
[1:05:03] has not demonstrated a need to go offsite on to someone's property and test. I'm not saying that that's
[1:05:09] out of the realm of possibility. We're still at the very beginning of the cleanup process, but the
[1:05:14] regulations and process don't require offsite notice until you have evidence of offsite contamination.
[1:05:21] And that applies whether it's a corner gas station cleanup or something like this. But where the
[1:05:26] groundwater program does come in and where is we getting to the criteria of how you designated
[1:05:32] ground field, you do have to provide public notice. And that's how all of the folks found out about
[1:05:38] this issue and what we're working through is because you are required to post the property,
[1:05:42] you are required to publish notice, you are required to put a post on bulletins. And the
[1:05:46] brownfoil program does require an advisory board to get established to provide frequent updates on how
[1:05:52] the cleanup proceeds. So there is a lot of public involvement. There is a lot of transparency
[1:05:58] in the brownfoil process, but first you have to get into the program for that to start happening
[1:06:03] and moving forward. And that's why we're here today. As far as the redevelopment is concerned,
[1:06:09] here's a layout from that minor site plan application that Ms. Navi mentioned. Gomez is here again on
[1:06:17] the east side of the property and entrance. It is 38 units which is consistent with the land use
[1:06:22] and zoning. Some open space preserve up here, stormwater to the south and the rest of the residential
[1:06:29] lots there. And a large community center for the neighborhood with fitness, activities and the like.
[1:06:39] Here's some renderings of what the residents may look like, single family residences, one story,
[1:06:46] story, and again everything is going to be done consistent with your land development regulations
[1:06:51] and all that. There's no proposed rezoning. I did want to touch base on the brownfield area
[1:06:57] designation criteria. I know the final hearing isn't going to be until the the 6th of January,
[1:07:03] but I think it is important just to show how this application does meet the criteria. And the first
[1:07:09] is does the person who owns or controls access to the property agrees to redevelop and rehabilitate
[1:07:16] the site. The applicant is the owner of the property and they have every intention to enter into the
[1:07:21] brownfield program by signing that cleanup agreement with DEP after the area is designated. So that's how
[1:07:27] that criteria is met. The cleanup and redevelopment result in economic productivity in the area and the
[1:07:33] creation of at least five new jobs. Re-development for the single family uses from this vacant use
[1:07:39] is going to generate jobs. It's going to create increased envelope taxes. It's going to employ
[1:07:47] both construction workers and people associated with the community. It is designed to be a luxury
[1:07:52] community with security, full-time maintenance, full-time staff on-site to help residents and things.
[1:07:59] And again, there is a large amenity center that will have fitness classes and the life. So very
[1:08:05] excited and attractive community as well. Is the redevelopment consistent with your complement and
[1:08:12] land development regulations? As Nabi mentioned, and as I did, the future land use is residential
[1:08:19] estate, which has a density of two units in acre. And we have that split R2, R2, B zoning, which does
[1:08:25] allow single family use at the density that's been proposed for this site. The designation
[1:08:31] has to be properly noticed and provide opportunity for suggestions on cleanup. And so that is done
[1:08:40] three ways. Newspaper advertisement, posting of the property and community bullets and notices. And so
[1:08:46] we've complied with all three of those requirements, both for the community meeting that was held on
[1:08:51] November 4th that Commissioner Caps had referenced attending. And for this meeting as well, all three
[1:09:00] notice procedures have been followed. And we will move forward with those notice procedures as well for
[1:09:05] that January 6th meeting. And then finally, the last criteria have you provided reasonable assurance that
[1:09:12] you have the financial ability to complete the cleanup. We have provided a memo that outlines
[1:09:18] both the redevelopment cost and the cleanup costs for the site, how the applicant intends to meet
[1:09:24] that by using traditional lending. The applicant does have a presence in the community already. They do
[1:09:31] have a couple units within Hobesown, which is where we hosted our community meeting. It set up as an
[1:09:37] office and a design center for the neighborhoods. They already kind of are invested in the community already.
[1:09:43] They are the owner of the property as well. So I think, you know, they're committed to this project,
[1:09:51] they're all in and they're excited to move forward with the Brownfield program itself. I did just want to
[1:09:58] touch base a little bit. I do a lot of Brownfield work across the state so I love to kind of cheerlead
[1:10:02] for the program. So I did provide a couple of statistics here from the State Department of Environmental
[1:10:07] Protections annual report on how the Brownfield program is operating since 97. There's been over
[1:10:13] 613 Brownfield areas designated by local governments. 532 voluntary cleanup agreements have been signed.
[1:10:22] Over $3.1 billion in capital investment have occurred in Brownfield since the program started in 1997
[1:10:29] and 88,000 confirmed and projected jobs since the Brownfield program was enacted.
[1:10:37] And then I just wanted to provide another example of a similarly situated property
[1:10:43] that has gone through the Brownfield program that we worked on. My colleague Jessica and I represented
[1:10:48] the City of Ovido, which is a community in central Florida near the University of Central Florida.
[1:10:54] They had a downtown with a major stormwater problem. None of the properties around the downtown
[1:10:59] could be redeveloped because there was nowhere for the water to drain. There was a nursery right on the
[1:11:04] outside and abandoned nursery right on the outside of that pond. They wanted to redevelop it and
[1:11:11] incorporated it into a larger community park. And so they asked us, you know, can we use Brownfields
[1:11:16] to do that? And like said, let's find out if they're environmental issues out there. There was a very
[1:11:21] significant arsenic impacted soil issue there from the former nursery operations. It took them about
[1:11:28] three years to complete the cleanup. They were mainly waiting for some grants from the water management
[1:11:33] district to help fund the project. So that's why there was a three-year delay. If they would have
[1:11:39] been fully funded when we entered the program in 1998, we probably could have moved a little faster.
[1:11:43] But they were able to address the arsenic, the dealger and all of those issues very effectively.
[1:11:48] And it's an incredible community park and resource. Now all those developments in the downtown,
[1:11:53] if they want to redevelop, they can just pay for credits into the pond instead of taking their smaller
[1:11:58] properties and having to put vaults and things like that in there. So a good example of
[1:12:03] Brownfield redevelopment by a local government about 30% of the Brownfield redevelopments that occur
[1:12:08] statewide are by local governments and nonprofits about 70% are done by private developers like
[1:12:14] like our client, the applicant here today. And just to talk about the next steps, because I think the
[1:12:19] cleanup and what happens from here is really important. Again, there's a final hearing that's scheduled
[1:12:25] for January 6th. Assuming that goes well and you all approved the Brownfield area designation
[1:12:31] in 2026, we will execute what's called a Brownfield site rehabilitation agreement with the Florida
[1:12:37] Department of Environmental Protection. That is the voluntary cleanup agreement that says,
[1:12:42] treat me like I am the responsible party that needs to clean up the site. I am agreeing to comply with
[1:12:48] your regulations in 6278 of the Florida Administrative Code. It has a very specific schedule that needs to be
[1:12:56] requirements that all reports and all work be done by licensed professional engineers and geologists
[1:13:02] a requirement that you lose only certified laboratories to do all the testing that needs to be done
[1:13:08] for the sites and that all submittals get reviewed. In this case, by the Florida Department of Environmental
[1:13:14] Protection, because in Martin County you don't have a delegated local environmental agency like
[1:13:19] Miami-Dade County Broward and Hillsborough County. If you're doing Brownfields in those counties,
[1:13:24] you would deal with their county environmental agencies which have their own jurisdiction. So here,
[1:13:30] we've got the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. They'll oversee and assign a project manager
[1:13:35] to review every single submittal that happens under the Brownfield Cleanup Agreement. And that process
[1:13:42] has four general steps. It's really hard to take something as iterative and as big as a
[1:13:48] and technical as a Brownfield Cleanup and summarized in foreign steps, but the first is
[1:13:54] identify where the contamination starts and stops. Both horizontal, horizontally, and vertically in
[1:14:00] all media, soil, groundwater, surface water, marine water if any of that applies. Here, it'll be soil
[1:14:07] and groundwater. So we have to determine where the contamination started and where it stopped
[1:14:14] if it emanated from our specific property, which, you know, based on the historic use that seems
[1:14:19] to be the case because everything around it is residential. Once you've gone through that process and that's
[1:14:23] been approved by DEP, you can then move to designing a remedial action plan to address those issues.
[1:14:30] Because this site's going to be redeveloped for residential uses, the most likely remedial action
[1:14:35] is going to be source removal, digging up all that contaminated soil, taking it to an appropriate
[1:14:40] facility that can accept that material and replacing it with clean fill until you've met
[1:14:46] those clean points that you've identified. Once that's done, you submit a report documenting how you've
[1:14:51] done that, that gets approved by DEP, and then you move into post remedial groundwater monitoring. You set up
[1:14:58] a network of groundwater wells.
[1:15:00] And you watched the groundwater contamination drop because that source has now been removed.
[1:15:05] And after each of those groundwater monitoring events, you submit a report back to the DEP that says we went out to the property on the state.
[1:15:12] We tested the groundwater and these are the results.
[1:15:15] And then that last step is applying for regulatory closure. Once you've demonstrated you have met all that criteria for closure in Florida.
[1:15:24] I mean, you've addressed the soil and groundwater issues to the extent of your regulatory obligations, and then that gets approved and reviewed by the state as well.
[1:15:36] And for groundwater monitoring, it's at least one year of quarterly groundwater monitoring, because you're looking for trends, right?
[1:15:42] As the water table fluctuates, things can change, so the state does require you to do at least four quarterly monitoring events at a minimum.
[1:15:52] So those four reviews, is that pre-construction during construction?
[1:16:01] So the requirements don't think of the best way to describe this.
[1:16:12] The requirements don't take into account when construction occurs.
[1:16:17] They're focusing on as when the source removal occurs, but you can't do anything in the construction of the site to make the situation worse.
[1:16:26] And so where that typically happens is in the context of dewatering, right? If you're drawing down that groundwater for your stormwater improvements or something like that, you could be sending the contamination in all different directions of proper precautions aren't taken.
[1:16:40] You're typically going to do those groundwater monitoring before construction does occur, but oftentimes in the context of commercial or industrial development, you might do that groundwater monitoring after, because there's not as much of a risk of exposure, as you might have with like residential development.
[1:16:58] So, unfortunately, answer is it depends.
[1:17:00] I'm only speaking of the residential portion.
[1:17:03] Just wondering if you started that in your third quarter in, you realize, wait a second, we are sensing something, but you've already started to build the neighborhood.
[1:17:12] You're going to look at us like, well, we've already started.
[1:17:15] And you're, this is a slippery slope.
[1:17:18] Yeah, and so, again, that's why that assessment is really important.
[1:17:23] We're looking for points of compliance before, because you're going to have to do that assessment before you do the removal action.
[1:17:32] So, we're going to know where that groundwater network exists before you remove the source and go back after.
[1:17:40] So, you're not just monitoring for groundwater for the first time after construction, you're doing it as part of the assessment, as well, at the initial step.
[1:17:48] Follow up.
[1:17:50] If you guys start doing that, where you're doing the borings to check, and you decide to go beyond that grid that you showed in start.
[1:17:57] Because there was a gentleman here this morning who was obviously a close neighbor, and you start to realize that the, that the plume or whatever you're calling it as further out, then you might have originally expected your clients.
[1:18:11] What if it becomes financially not feasible to continue the project?
[1:18:16] Well, the remediation is massive.
[1:18:18] You guys had the ability to just say, we're out.
[1:18:21] No, because you are entering into this agreement with the state that says, you're going to address the issue.
[1:18:29] You can terminate the agreement, but then you're likely to see DEP's enforcement side come in as a result.
[1:18:36] And that's why the brownfield financial incentives are really important, because they kind of provide a recurring source of, I don't want to say revenue, but an ability to fund the cleanup.
[1:18:49] Because the tax credits are based on what you spend to do the cleanup, right?
[1:18:54] You can only get the tax credits for doing the actual cleanup work.
[1:18:58] So if you do $100,000 of source removal just to say, you will get a 50% tax credit back that then you can choose to elect to use those funds to help facilitate your cleanup.
[1:19:12] And so that's where this program becomes really important.
[1:19:16] You know, there are people who decide to take on a brownfield cleanup without understanding their obligations.
[1:19:22] You know, as have you seen from the submittals we've made, our client has done significant testing on the front end to try and get a handle on what these issues are.
[1:19:30] We're not, we're not done, but we know enough to know that we have a good handle on it.
[1:19:36] And they already own the property.
[1:19:37] And they own that property.
[1:19:38] Last question, if you didn't do it, if you don't get an approval today and you don't move forward, the project just sits there as it is contaminated with the possibility of leaching into the very close neighbors.
[1:19:54] There certainly is a risk.
[1:19:55] It's it's it's been there for a long time.
[1:19:57] I will say with agricultural uses and contamination, the rules and regulations are a little different.
[1:20:03] Then this type of scenario by moving into the brownfield program, you're agreeing to use the regulatory framework that says, you've got to do the full cleanup.
[1:20:12] You've got to address the issues to the satisfaction the DEP, whereas with most agricultural operations, the pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, you know,
[1:20:22] we're designed to be applied, right, so that the contamination is there as the result of normal agricultural operations.
[1:20:28] There's a separate set of statutes that say when you've got ag, it's a little different.
[1:20:33] Here, now with brownfields, you're going to go into this complete regulatory framework that says, you know, it doesn't matter that it was an ag site.
[1:20:41] You're agreeing to these regulations that say you have to do the more stringent cleanup.
[1:20:45] And it's completely surrounded very closely by tons of neighbors.
[1:20:50] If you look at the area, I mean, you could you could not be more in the neighborhood than you guys are.
[1:20:55] It's it's the whole of the donut.
[1:20:57] Absolutely.
[1:20:58] Thank you.
[1:20:59] Mr. Wong.
[1:21:01] Yes, to add a little level of comfort to starting construction, the development orders contingent on two dedications of right away for this project.
[1:21:11] And part of that process is having a clean title and phase one environmentals that are also clean.
[1:21:18] So I think that's where this whole process started is in that phase one environmental assessment that was done for the right away dedications.
[1:21:26] So we wouldn't issue a development order until those were provided as clean and with no contaminants.
[1:21:34] Commissioner Vargas.
[1:21:35] Yeah, I think this is the second, at least since I've been here.
[1:21:40] This type of brownfield cleanup that I think that we've talked about is as I recollect in our conversation.
[1:21:47] And I know that it is a state program through EPA.
[1:21:51] The brownfields clean up grant and I think it's half a million dollars, isn't it?
[1:21:57] So the EPA has a separate the separate brownfields program that provides grants to local governments and nonprofits to do assessment and clean up.
[1:22:08] And those can be in upwards of half a million dollars, but this is a state program.
[1:22:14] So it's administered by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and they don't issue grants.
[1:22:19] They issue tax credits.
[1:22:22] So there's no there's no free money.
[1:22:25] You've got to actually go out and spend the money on the cleanup and there's a very specific agreed upon procedures.
[1:22:32] Process that CPAs do with the application to verify that you've actually spent the money.
[1:22:38] You don't just give them copies of checks.
[1:22:40] You actually give them the bank statements.
[1:22:42] They review the bank statements.
[1:22:44] The proposals, the invoices, they sign a certification.
[1:22:47] And then your environmental professional has to sign and seal a certification as well.
[1:22:51] That's where as an affirms that the work has been completed.
[1:22:54] And then that goes up to Tallahassee for a second review by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.
[1:22:59] So there's a very kind of robust procedure.
[1:23:02] It actually, the deadline for 2025 work is the end of January, 2026.
[1:23:08] So my colleagues and I get very busy in January taking the whole history of our, I think it's like 20 something sites we're working on right now to submit these applications up to the state.
[1:23:19] So that they can review the tax credit applications.
[1:23:22] Right.
[1:23:23] I think one of our commissioners, one of my commissioner colleagues said,
[1:23:27] I was kind of wondering, okay, if you start to open up like buying a house that needs work.
[1:23:32] A really good deal, Pandora's box, which I'm always leery of.
[1:23:37] But I mean, to take a lot of money to clean up, I noticed here in the study arsenic was found on the property.
[1:23:48] And I don't know.
[1:23:51] I mean, you can tell us, well, they got deep pockets and they're just going to continue forward.
[1:23:55] But we've, we've, in our application materials, you know, we've established a budget of around a million dollars.
[1:24:02] For this, I can't guarantee that it's going to be more or less until we really get out there.
[1:24:08] But yeah, I mean, this is a significant environmental matter.
[1:24:11] You know, it's something we take very seriously and huge investment just, you know, on the front end also just tax credits.
[1:24:20] Yes.
[1:24:21] That's why the applicant, yeah, absolutely.
[1:24:24] But again, you know, from from the materials, you know, we provided there's been over 613 brownfield areas designated throughout the state of Florida.
[1:24:35] And I believe we're, you know, in excess of 530 of these brownfield clean up agreements.
[1:24:41] That have been executed and parties are doing these environmental cleanups from, you know, the keys all the way through the panhandle.
[1:24:49] It is actually Florida's second biggest environmental cleanup program in terms of dollar spent per year by behind the gas station cleanup program, the petroleum program, right?
[1:24:59] So if you go to any gas station that's been around since the 80s, you'll see those little monitoring wells all around or you might see some remedial equipment.
[1:25:06] You know, that program is funded in the hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
[1:25:10] In the last couple of years, the legislature increased brownfield funding to $35 million a year, making it the second biggest cleanup program that our state has.
[1:25:18] So let me ask you a question, I know you're going to build residential here. Do you have to make it disclosure to prospective buyers that this is one time was a brown sort of maybe not really.
[1:25:29] I mean, I will tell you that I always advise my clients to do that, especially on brownfield redevelopments and that would certainly be the case here as well.
[1:25:40] I mean, I don't see and a reason why not.
[1:25:43] So for that, I sure would like to know if I put my hard cash down.
[1:25:47] I actually, you know, are part of my living writing disclosures for environmental issues on on sites and and again, with this being a single family residential neighborhood.
[1:25:58] You know, they're going to make sure that it's it's, you know, done well correctly and appropriately with.
[1:26:04] It's examined. I mean, it's not as if we asked all cleaned up like you know, go for a tortoise or you know that.
[1:26:10] Again, you know, you have to hire a licensed engineer in geologist to do it.
[1:26:15] The labs have to we provide the certification of the laboratories to the Department of Environmental Protection.
[1:26:21] And it's not, you know, the applicant who's signing these reports that go in, it's their hired professional team.
[1:26:27] So they're putting their professional licenses on the line when they're submitting these reports as well.
[1:26:36] I have one request to speak form and that is from Mary Gavin, if you would like to address this, please fill out a request to speak form and get it to the bailiff.
[1:26:47] This is what I did come for first of all to staff into the commissioners.
[1:26:51] I hope you have the best holiday season. I know I'm going to.
[1:26:55] I'd like to start off with a little bit of history.
[1:26:58] I've lived in Hobesown in Martin County 30 years and I happen to live right down east of this property.
[1:27:06] So I'm the end of the line. I'm in the inner coastal and I don't want to use the S word, but that's what rolls towards me.
[1:27:13] So I get a little emotional about this. I will say, and I get emotional also because back in 1993, I was working in a building in Atlanta, Georgia that was poisoned with arsenic.
[1:27:24] And I had a son that was born with tremendous health issues because of it. So I just that's why I get a little shaky about this. So I want to start with the owners.
[1:27:34] There's two applicants here, so I'm not sure what, but it's the same managing partner. It looks like on Florida sunbiz.
[1:27:40] And I'll refer to the documents I gave you in just a moment to clarify that.
[1:27:45] But the property was bought from the original farm family for around 3 million plus.
[1:27:52] They've had it on the market for 16 million. They took it off right after we acquired why they said they're developing it when it was for sale. So I do want to point that out.
[1:28:03] I also want to point out that they have to clean this property up whether there's a brownfield designation or not to develop this property.
[1:28:11] It's got to be cleaned up. And if somebody spent $3 million on 19 acres, which was a deal of the century, they certainly had to know why and did their due diligence as far as the environmental issue,
[1:28:21] especially knowing that this was a farm for 1,000 years, you know, I'm being a little facetious there.
[1:28:28] So anyway, with all that said, now I want you to get to some of the documents I sent. The front page is an unfortunately close up picture of the property.
[1:28:37] But there's two parcels on this property. One was a residential or a storage home and the other was all the farm.
[1:28:44] When it was sold to the current owners, they literally buried the house into the ground where the majority of this condemnation is.
[1:28:52] And you can see it hasn't been mode and when they drop signs with the development signs literally been dropped into 3 foot grass for about 6 months.
[1:29:00] So Michael told us that the owners are concerned about the health and welfare of this property.
[1:29:05] We should have been notified if they really were concerned in my humble opinion.
[1:29:09] And when I see how this property has been maintained, it tells me that it could give you know what about what the community feels.
[1:29:15] The homes around this area run half million to $10 million.
[1:29:20] Just to put in perspective, it's an extremely beautiful, high-end part of Hobbesound.
[1:29:25] With all that said, yes, they have every right in the world to apply for the Brownfield status.
[1:29:32] The only real benefit, like I said, they have to develop this. I mean, they have to.
[1:29:37] I have one important point that really has to be made. I hope I can continue.
[1:29:43] They have to clean it up to develop it doesn't matter.
[1:29:46] But if you look at the ownership and this is a moral issue.
[1:29:50] It doesn't necessarily preclude somebody from getting a Brownfield status or from getting the tax credits for it.
[1:29:58] But the owner that's listed there.
[1:30:00] We're also spent 13 months in prison in Florida for Medicare fraud through sober homes, was recently released.
[1:30:07] So we're going to, and it's frost my, you know, what to think that is a Florida tax pair, which I have been, because of businesses, that we are going to give somebody tax credits that stole millions of dollars in the state of Florida. Thank you.
[1:30:23] Anyone else like to address this?
[1:30:28] I see in the DEP information that this was, as far as I can tell, the soil warnings, as early as 2018, detected all kinds of contamination.
[1:30:48] Once again, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2023, there were all these poisons contaminants that were detected.
[1:31:01] Was the owner required to make this information public at any time? Anybody know?
[1:31:12] I believe Mr. Schnapps Tyler had said if there was offsite contamination, then there are specific notice requirements for that.
[1:31:24] So the requirements for qualifying for a Brownfield designation.
[1:31:34] One of them is that at least five new permanent jobs are created. They're full time jobs.
[1:31:40] Not associated with the implementation of the Brownfield site rehabilitation agreement.
[1:31:46] I don't think that's been met.
[1:31:49] There are going to be any jobs full time jobs created with this. This is true.
[1:31:56] You also have to...
[1:32:04] The person proposing the area for designation has provided reasonable assurance that he or she has sufficient financial resources to implement and complete the rehabilitation agreement and redevelopment of the Brownfield site.
[1:32:15] Will the owner wrote a letter to us saying, oh yeah, I have a million dollars for rehabilitation and another forty five million dollars and signed it.
[1:32:26] What did we do to proof that claim?
[1:32:33] We need the personal letter.
[1:32:35] We have staff review the application materials that we receive from the applicant.
[1:32:43] So the applicant was the one that was sent to prison for Medicare fraud.
[1:32:49] Westerstein, Bay Harbor Islands?
[1:32:52] I know that area well. Very well.
[1:32:57] So we're going to take his word for it.
[1:33:07] Anybody else?
[1:33:11] Madam Chair, I'd like to hear some of the feedback from the applicants representative.
[1:33:15] Okay.
[1:33:18] Madam Chair, commissioners, again for the record, Michael Schnapps Tyler with Cobb Cole.
[1:33:22] Madam Chair, address your question about the job creation component and the financial information with respect to jobs.
[1:33:30] Full time security on site full time maintenance full time operations.
[1:33:35] 24 hours a day, seven days a week at that site.
[1:33:38] It's going to be at least five full time equivalent jobs out there at at the site forever.
[1:33:44] That's that's the plan for for the redevelopment of the site.
[1:33:47] And with respect to financial assurances, again, we provided a letter.
[1:33:51] The applicant does own and operate a design center facility very close to this site that shows their commitment to the project.
[1:33:59] And the area, if there are additional financial information.
[1:34:04] We can work on it. We can provide it at advance of the January 6th.
[1:34:08] Second reading to to show you that the financial resources are available.
[1:34:12] Again, they've completed assessment work.
[1:34:14] They've continued to complete assessment work to this point.
[1:34:18] Getting back to 2024.
[1:34:20] I believe our client was an original investor in the first version of this project.
[1:34:27] He bought out his partner to avoid foreclosure in 2024 and is moving forward with the project as was originally intended.
[1:34:38] I can't speak to when the property was for sale.
[1:34:41] Previously, I do know that there was a rogue listing out there that the the speaker identified it was taken down.
[1:34:47] The property was not listed for sale when we had the community meeting on in November out at the site.
[1:34:54] It was not listed for sale. Again, it was just a rogue sometimes on the internet.
[1:34:57] It's out there. It wasn't on the MLS. You couldn't you couldn't find it.
[1:35:01] Commissioner Vargas's client. I mean, comment.
[1:35:06] We represent an LLC. There is a managing member who did accept a plea deal associated with an investment he made.
[1:35:13] He did not operate the facility.
[1:35:16] He did spend some time in a federal facility.
[1:35:22] He's paying his debt to society. He still is trying to work and earn a living and provide for his family.
[1:35:30] And again, our client is an LLC. There are other people associated with the business and the investment here.
[1:35:37] I don't know if any brown-foot area designation criteria that are impacted by what happened previously.
[1:35:46] And again, the point of the brown-foot program is to focus on the cleanup and the redevelopment.
[1:35:52] There's no indication that any of the appropriate rules and regulations or anything like that are not going to be followed here.
[1:36:00] Everything still has to be done by the book.
[1:36:03] And that's what we intend to do with this cleanup and redevelopment.
[1:36:10] So there are five requirements in order to advance. Two of them have not been met.
[1:36:17] And another one says that notice of the proposed rehabilitation of the brown-field area has been provided to neighbors and nearby residents.
[1:36:24] Do we know that that's been done and how do we know that that's been done?
[1:36:29] The applicant provided their affidavit for posting to the community bulletins.
[1:36:36] They provided us photos of the signs that were posted at the property for their community meeting and for this public hearing and the upcoming one on January 6th.
[1:36:47] The other notice requirement, the community meeting, affording, neighbors, the opportunity to comment that was held on November 4th.
[1:36:56] And then those meetings also had to be announced at a regularly scheduled meeting of the board.
[1:37:02] So in October and at the November 18th board hearing that you all had administrator, Don Donaldson had announced the community meeting and the public hearings.
[1:37:16] So the notice requirements that are outlined in the statute have been met in those respects.
[1:37:22] Commissioner Caps.
[1:37:25] Yes, to commissioner heard concern about number five and this letter that was sent reasonable assurance that he or she has sufficient financial resources to implement and complete the rehabilitation agreement and redevelopment of the brown-field site.
[1:37:45] You do a lot of these proceedings and the the type of reasonable assurance that we have been given as this common and and as a consistent with what is normally done.
[1:38:01] The record again Michael Schnapps Tyler with Cobb Cole.
[1:38:06] It is it's consistent with what you all received for your brown-field area designation that happened earlier in the year.
[1:38:13] I believe in February but but again if there are additional information if that's the request you you want us to take back to our client advance of the January 6th brown-field area designation hearing we can do that we can work with your staff and provide some additional documentation.
[1:38:30] That's I don't see that being an issue.
[1:38:34] Okay, I would appear to me then that we've met sufficient threshold thresholds to meet these five criteria and that this is kind of strictly regulated by Florida statute.
[1:38:46] I mean, some of the other things that have been talked about are really can't be considered.
[1:38:56] Yeah, and it's just these five things right that we can look at when designating a brownfield.
[1:39:03] These are objective criteria it's either yes or no, it's not subjective and if you meet the five subjective criteria the statute says.
[1:39:15] Right and and light of that.
[1:39:20] I would like I would make it a motion to approve the designation but can you phrase that for me one more time about the additional information that we could ask for on the the fifth.
[1:39:40] Number five.
[1:39:42] Maybe phrase that for me again we're asking for additional information for the next hearing.
[1:39:48] If I may we're not designating the brownfield today we are just moving to have the second public hearing prior to five o'clock on January.
[1:39:58] I think it's six and moving staff the staff report into evidence you can add the contingency to bring additional financial information if you want but we're not designating today just to clarify that.
[1:40:09] Sounds like we can just take this up at the next hearing then okay we'll I would move approval.
[1:40:16] Mr. Kampie.
[1:40:19] Thank you this is gone into a gray area for me.
[1:40:23] I'm interested to hear from our district commissioner which we just did.
[1:40:28] If I might ask commissioner caps a question you went to that November 4th meeting it was a residential meeting was it well attended very well attended I would I would guess.
[1:40:38] Maybe 30 or 40 people is that sound about right based on your memory.
[1:40:45] And a lot of participational a lot of questions that was handled very well by these attorneys from Daytona.
[1:40:52] I think to be to know overall mood of the meeting before and after there were just a lot of questions and a lot of clarification given as to what the purposes of.
[1:41:07] The Brownfield designation is I think there's a lot of misperception out there about what it is and what it is not and who.
[1:41:16] And how what the county's role is in the matter you know there are a lot of folks that initially think that the county's involved with monitoring the actual cleanup and soil testing and and that kind of thing and that's all done all done by the DEP.
[1:41:36] And this really is just about these five criteria and whether.
[1:41:43] The applicant gets a tax advantage for engaging in the work to get it cleaned up and it's a program to the encourage the cleanup of these sites around the state so it has a good and noble purpose.
[1:42:02] And it apparently is achieving a lot of environmental cleanup around the state as it was previously mentioned.
[1:42:11] But I it seems to me like.
[1:42:14] These hearings are all about those five bullet points and that's kind of all you can really look at and and light of that I think we are satisfied that.
[1:42:29] That's what the requirements are fulfilled.
[1:42:32] Thank you.
[1:42:35] To our staff.
[1:42:37] I remember this property came up several years ago and it was a huge uproar of residents that came forward.
[1:42:45] I remember because they gave us a stack of petitions individual to each of us that was like 500 pages.
[1:42:54] To each of us it was like 3000 pages.
[1:42:57] It's like a like a printer's box of paper copy paper.
[1:43:01] I've been using I cut them in half and I've been using the back of them for note pads since and I still have probably this many to go.
[1:43:10] It was a big deal that project.
[1:43:13] It was really controversial and if I remember correctly we voted it down.
[1:43:19] Correct.
[1:43:20] That's why I'm I'm getting to that point.
[1:43:23] I was looking to do something different but when I look at the picture here I can imagine how you could shoehorn in a single extra house onto that property which I get is probably legally permissible.
[1:43:34] If it's into we're not even approving yes or no on that.
[1:43:39] That's what I mean it looks major to me but I get it's minor and I'm not going to go down that but it looks like a full project.
[1:43:49] So it's not a matter so for me I have to take out of my thought process.
[1:43:56] Are we going to be approving this development of a neighborhood right there or not because it's not going to come to us.
[1:44:04] It's going to be handled at the administrative level and my correct.
[1:44:08] Okay so it's not like my decision today will you know make a determination for the neighborhood.
[1:44:15] Now I go back to the cleanup.
[1:44:18] A carnation farm or flower farm we had one in Palm City on Barry and it was bigger.
[1:44:25] Maybe it was about the same it's a neighborhood now.
[1:44:28] I don't remember I have a very good memory but I don't remember that it being as it really wasn't a contamination issue.
[1:44:35] There was certainly not a brownfield.
[1:44:37] I don't remember and some of you will hear then too I don't remember if it was a big contamination situation like this one seems to be.
[1:44:45] It also feels like it was a little more spread out than it this one seems to be.
[1:44:51] And so the bottom line for my decision making today which with all due respect to my colleague is he's the local he was at that meeting and he's the one who made the motion.
[1:45:00] That's first. Secondly, from a financial point of view, a letter saying, I can afford to do this doesn't really jump the bar for me. That's, of course, someone's going to write that.
[1:45:14] I don't know what the legal responsibilities or ramifications would be if we found out that that letter wasn't as accurate, who's the arbiter of deciding if someone.
[1:45:24] And I don't know the applicants. So I have, I'm not trying to disparage any person. I don't see the names. I don't know those names. I don't know these people. So speaking generally, if I wanted to do a project and all I had to do was type a letter that says, I have enough money to do it. And here's my signature. We don't have a financial arm that's reviewing that.
[1:45:44] You're a growth management. We literally were not sending it to the clerk of the court. It's not being reviewed for any kind of accuracy or verifying that that money exists. So if we are going to move from today to the sixth of January, I would need some more of a financial kind of proof.
[1:46:05] But it's like you said, it's big money. I mean, remediation and taking that soil off that property. I don't even think there's any remediation sites left in Martin County where you could truck it to correct. We don't have that anymore.
[1:46:20] Never did. But then wherever it was going locally, that's not even local anymore. Even if it's out of the county.
[1:46:28] Well, it's just that depending on the contamination, you know, it either would have to be landfill, but typically something like this has to go to like an incineration.
[1:46:38] And be more in the worst case scenario, it used to get trucked out of the state to a special hazardous waste facility.
[1:46:44] Some other state where I don't know what the level is, but anyway, there's various designations of which we've never had a facility that could accept anything other than very minor.
[1:46:55] Okay, so you're talking about, you know, remediating soil, which, look, it's not a secret. It's obviously contaminated. They've found some already into Commissioner Vargas's point arsenic, which even those of us that are not chemists would say, sounds like the scary one.
[1:47:13] I'm torn. The reason that I would potentially vote today in favor is because if you don't do something, it's just going to continue to just leech in and just get worse.
[1:47:24] This seems to me to be the most realistic and reasonable approach to remediation for the existing neighbors that are there.
[1:47:34] In this particular case of doing nothing, I just think every rainstorm, every wash is just going your way or, you know, I get that it's going, you know, west to east, but it's also going north and south. It's not, it's unless it's like a swell, which it's not, it's going north and south. And the houses are literally on the property line.
[1:47:57] So I'm not opposed to having at least bringing this to January 6th, the other thing, which is more of a personal thing based on, and I appreciate the photograph. I did not get an opportunity.
[1:48:10] I've driven past here many times because I have friends that lived down in this neck of the woods. I probably drove past it on my way to the singing Christmas tree, but that being said, I wasn't looking at the property with that eye.
[1:48:23] If this is even an indication of how the property is being maintained, how long is your client owned it?
[1:48:29] Twenty twenty-one.
[1:48:30] Twenty-two-two-two-two-two-four years, for coming up on five potentially.
[1:48:36] I've been the sole owner since 2024.
[1:48:39] Okay.
[1:48:40] Okay, so at least a year, I will drive by before January 6th, shouldn't look like that if you're trying to, like, you know, put your best foot forward.
[1:48:50] Straighten it up. I mean, that sounds like a weird kind of personal request, but five of us have been making a determination.
[1:48:57] I'm close to, I was a no until I heard my colleague say that he, you know, we meet the, he's a lawyer. We have plenty of them, but he's also one of them.
[1:49:08] And so I'm willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, based on, I need to see financials that are, I don't know who will eventually verify them,
[1:49:18] but more than a letter from the guy that says, I got enough money.
[1:49:21] And I would like from the neighbor's point of view that it's, you know, it's just neighborly to keep this up, then look like some just, you know, wasteland.
[1:49:29] And, and then I guess we'll take it from there on January 6th, so I will second my colleague, district commissioner colleagues, motion, reluctantly.
[1:49:40] Commissioner Heatherington.
[1:49:43] I would just go back to the five criteria and.
[1:49:48] As far as the jobs, I would imagine that based on all of the reporting documentation that that's verified by.
[1:49:58] By some entity, whether it be the DEP in order for you to get the tax credits, is that correct?
[1:50:06] I mean, you can't, if you don't create five jobs who's, who's monitoring that.
[1:50:13] The DEP is focused on the incentives and on on the cleanup, they don't, I don't know off the top of my head if they actually go out and count the jobs and verify it, but they do report it.
[1:50:27] And that's, but again, that's focused on the redevelopment after the cleanup is complete.
[1:50:33] And then as far as the proof of funds, I, I think you could, this would be like a real estate transaction that you could require either.
[1:50:42] To show a particular percentage or a financial institution would verify that you would, you have the proof of funds, whatever that amount is.
[1:50:57] I would be willing to move it to January six, I think that you have a little work to do before January six, but I would be willing to move it to January six.
[1:51:06] Can I ask one more question for.
[1:51:09] Commissioner Heatherington's point.
[1:51:11] Even if they brought bank statements, it says we got eight million dollars in the bank, there's no verification that they're going to spend the eight million dollars on this is there.
[1:51:18] I remember projects that we've done in the past where people have to put money into escrow or to something is I don't know if we're getting out of our realm, but.
[1:51:28] So we don't have any legal authority to require escrow, we can ask for a certified bank letter or as accounting some from a CPA if the board would like.
[1:51:38] So for this meeting, they're entitled to two hearings, so they're moving forward on January six just to clarify either way.
[1:51:45] This is voting on today is to have it before five, so if there's a no vote today, then we're having the hearing after five, the board can certainly vote no at the next hearing to not designate the Browning.
[1:51:55] Brownfield, but they do have two hearings under the law, so the board can give them direction that, you know, it looks like a no and they should bring some additional financial, but I just want to clarify that there's going to be two hearings and the next one will be after five if there's a no vote today on the motion.
[1:52:10] So everybody understands you're voting on whether to have the hearing after five or before five for the next meeting.
[1:52:17] So but on the six we can vote no if we don't.
[1:52:20] Yes, absolutely.
[1:52:22] If you feel like they didn't meet the criteria, but they are entitled to two hearings under the law.
[1:52:26] I would, I would prefer that the meeting is after five o'clock.
[1:52:31] Really?
[1:52:32] Yeah.
[1:52:33] Why?
[1:52:34] Let the people live.
[1:52:35] What if the meeting gets over at 12 30?
[1:52:37] And I have to come back at five o'clock and have the meeting because I think when you, this is just my suggestion and I know that this goes to daytime meetings versus nighttime meetings.
[1:52:46] This is a contaminated site in the heart of a very specific neighborhood where the houses are very close together and I mean.
[1:52:56] I don't, I wouldn't want any kind of a inference that we created an opportunity where it was harder for people to come.
[1:53:03] This is different than, you know, hey, we're building something next to you.
[1:53:07] This is contamination.
[1:53:08] This is medical issues.
[1:53:10] This is pretty serious and, you know, we have budget hearings that start at 505.
[1:53:15] That's just my personal opinion.
[1:53:18] If we have it during the day, the other thing I didn't hear anyone say is that you put it on a board or you put some signs up.
[1:53:26] Do they have to send out certified letters to the surrounding property owners?
[1:53:32] There's not a mailing notice requirement in the statute.
[1:53:38] Okay, can we ask them to do that in terms of winning favor?
[1:53:42] Well, they have to still have to certify them like everybody else does, right?
[1:53:47] Yeah, we don't have any authority to do that under our coordinate.
[1:53:51] Well, I'm one of five and so I'm just giving you a suggestion.
[1:53:54] I'm going to ask people to show up at this meeting on the sixth and say, how'd you hear about it?
[1:53:59] If you genuinely want a favorable, I'm willing to be very objective.
[1:54:05] If you're client once, you know, to me to give him all of, you know, the potential thoughtfulness in my decision making, you have to prove to me that the local residents were notified, not just putting a sign up.
[1:54:23] Because some people don't drive by that way and if you put it on some websites, some people don't see that website.
[1:54:28] We require everybody else in the world to mail out within a couple hundred feeder yards of a project to say that they got a notification.
[1:54:38] I get that we can't make you do that.
[1:54:41] But if you came back on the sixth and said, look here, we sent certified letters to our surrounding neighborhood ring.
[1:54:48] That's going to go a longer way for me to be favorable in my decision making for you all with your request.
[1:54:56] Just to remind everybody, we're following a state statute for a tax credit for this cleanup and the board will be required to evaluate the criteria by which.
[1:55:11] Each of those five criteria and so it'll have to be an objective reasoning that you determine.
[1:55:17] So I think that's that's important to remember.
[1:55:21] Ms. Gavin, before or after five.
[1:55:25] Then what do you think about your neighbors?
[1:55:28] I think a lot of them are stolen away.
[1:55:31] Then we are the closest straight to the property.
[1:55:36] She has the same thing.
[1:55:40] Ma'am, can you come up? Can you come to this speaker please?
[1:55:43] I'm sorry.
[1:55:45] The majority of neighbors that I have spoken to thought that that sign was for development.
[1:55:51] And we know that it's not, this is very, very different.
[1:55:55] So I, there are a lot of people that aren't here today.
[1:56:00] Just because of the time, I don't know that it matters.
[1:56:03] If we're going back to the criteria, but I would like to add some here.
[1:56:06] If there's five permanent jobs created, I think we need to know what they are.
[1:56:10] So somebody can follow up that they really happened.
[1:56:12] That's the least of it.
[1:56:14] Commissioner Caps.
[1:56:16] So in order if we went with Commissioner campus logic of making it after five,
[1:56:22] then it would be more logically for consistent for me to withdraw my motion.
[1:56:27] Correct.
[1:56:28] Right.
[1:56:29] Because your motion had the hearing before five.
[1:56:32] We would still need for the board to receive the agenda item and the attachments.
[1:56:36] But you wouldn't have to talk about the timing because the statute requires us to have one after five
[1:56:41] clock and that would be the next one.
[1:56:43] Right.
[1:56:44] Oh, I would rather err on the side of making sure that anyone who might want to be at this hearing has that opportunity
[1:56:53] after five or six.
[1:56:54] So I will withdraw that motion.
[1:56:58] You withdrawing?
[1:56:59] Yes.
[1:57:01] All right.
[1:57:02] I would tell you, I don't mind that meetings before five if there was some way for you to notify the affected parties.
[1:57:10] And I'm not trying to give you guys grief.
[1:57:13] I'm trying to give you, like, answer to the test.
[1:57:16] This is the kind of things that, and I get what Mr. Donaldson saying that we're just talking about giving you the opportunity to get a reimbursement of expenses.
[1:57:25] But to me, the advantage for the neighbors is you're going to clean up a site that's been really terrible for a long long time.
[1:57:31] That's for me.
[1:57:33] And if you're legally allowed to build a neighborhood, it looked pretty what you were showing was pretty.
[1:57:37] The five, the five jobs, I get it.
[1:57:41] You know, I get that you could do that.
[1:57:43] It's a small prime.
[1:57:44] How many houses?
[1:57:45] Thirty eight.
[1:57:46] Thirty eight.
[1:57:47] You have a full time garden front of the neighborhood for thirty houses.
[1:57:49] You're talking about the five employees, but who's paying for those five employees?
[1:57:53] The cost of fortune to have a garden front of a house in the neighborhood.
[1:57:57] Even if you have six hundred homes, never mind thirty eight.
[1:57:59] And I get there going to be beautiful.
[1:58:01] So I'm willing to say, just do these things that I'm that are important to me for me to give you the benefit of that out in January.
[1:58:11] So do we need a motion to move that the,
[1:58:15] Hold our second public hearing after five o'clock?
[1:58:18] No, we just need a motion for the board to receive and file the agenda item.
[1:58:21] The item and its attachments, including the staff report is exhibit one.
[1:58:25] Okay.
[1:58:26] I'll make that motion.
[1:58:29] Miss Navi.
[1:58:30] Can I clarify if there was a motion for more financial documents or something in that respect for the January six meeting?
[1:58:39] It's that's for us.
[1:58:40] Yeah.
[1:58:41] It's that's the applicant.
[1:58:42] I think you have a real clear idea of that.
[1:58:44] Yes.
[1:58:45] I expect it on January six.
[1:58:46] Okay.
[1:58:47] Thank you.
[1:58:48] To receive and file the agenda item and its attachments.
[1:58:53] Any further inquiries.
[1:58:55] There's a motion in the second all those in favor.
[1:58:57] I oppose that motion passes unanimously.
[1:59:00] Thank you.
[1:59:01] Thank you.
[1:59:02] Members of the board.
[1:59:03] You have a five minute break.
[1:59:04] Yes.
[1:59:05] We're going to take a five minute break.
[1:59:08] Okay.
[1:59:09] Hi.
[1:59:18] Thank you.
[1:59:48] Thank you.
[1:59:49] Thank you.
[2:06:00] I have to make it up to me. Don't you worry.
[2:06:28] We're on. We are taking up department one which is Office of Management and Budget items which require board approval.
[2:06:38] Ms. Murley. Good afternoon, Stephanie Murley, director of OMB here to present four items today.
[2:06:44] Our first item is a permission to apply for the FY26 Transportation Alternatives Set aside program through FDOT for the Palm Lake Park Sidewalk Connectivity Project.
[2:06:56] Our public works department is requesting a grant application of $769,769,125 dollars for the construction of a proposed six foot wide sidewalk on the perimeter of green space on Northwest Palm Lake Drive.
[2:07:12] There is a local match of $19,500 that will be funded with the FY30 CIP program.
[2:07:20] Item number two is a permission to apply for the FY26 Floor to stay for else to school infrastructure grant through FDOT for the Northeast Rose Tree Drive Sidewalk Project.
[2:07:32] Public works is requesting a grant application of $987,000 for the construction of a six foot sidewalk on Northeast Rose Tree Drive to connect the neighborhood to Johnson Beach Elementary School and there's no cash match required for that one.
[2:07:48] Item number three is a permission to accept the FY2526 state funded emergency management accreditation program or the E map grant.
[2:07:58] Our emergency management division is requesting the acceptance of $45,280 for the purposes of funding and accreditation program for our Martin County Emergency Management Program.
[2:08:10] There's no cash match required for that either.
[2:08:14] And last but not least, we have the permission to accept the state of Florida Department of Health FY26 emergency medical services or EMS trust fund grant.
[2:08:23] This is an annual grant we receive.
[2:08:26] This is for $25,219 dollars to.
[2:08:31] Fund equipment and training to enhance emergency medical services at the local level and there's no cash match required for that either.
[2:08:41] That's it questions.
[2:08:44] Would anyone from the public like to address us seeing none back to the board.
[2:08:49] Move approval.
[2:08:50] Second.
[2:08:51] There's a motion in the second all those in favor.
[2:08:53] Aye.
[2:08:54] Opposed that motion passes unanimously.
[2:08:56] Thank you.
[2:08:57] Next up is Department 2 which is contracts that meet the threshold for.
[2:09:04] Board approve of approval of a million dollars or greater.
[2:09:07] This should look familiar.
[2:09:12] Good evening.
[2:09:13] Christie brother 10 chief procurement officer.
[2:09:15] So I have one item for your consideration which is the construction contract award for the Coral Gardens vacuum sewer system project.
[2:09:23] You approved an item earlier in today's agenda for the same project.
[2:09:28] And staff is recommending that the board award the contract to the lowest responsive and
[2:09:32] responsible bidder which is Felix civil construction in the amount of 14 million eighty six thousand eighty nine dollars.
[2:09:41] And move that the board authorize the county administrator or designate to execute all documents related to this request.
[2:09:47] And that concludes this item.
[2:09:49] Questions from this.
[2:09:50] Brother 10.
[2:09:51] Have a gladly make approval our move approval for this item.
[2:09:55] Second.
[2:09:56] There's a motion in a second all those in favor.
[2:09:59] And opposed that motion passes unanimously.
[2:10:03] Let's see.
[2:10:05] That brings us to the end of our.
[2:10:08] Last meeting of 2025.
[2:10:11] Commissioner.
[2:10:12] Lame sign or something.
[2:10:14] Not yet.
[2:10:16] Commissioner Vargas.
[2:10:18] You were going to model for us how I.
[2:10:21] As a citizen could go and find information on the links.
[2:10:27] So with the chair's permission, I can show them and straight how you can get to the check register.
[2:10:33] Good for.
[2:10:34] Yeah, that'd be great.
[2:10:36] This is ordinary citizen.
[2:10:39] This is Donaldson.
[2:10:41] Muddling his way through all this information.
[2:10:46] Can't work the dot cam, but.
[2:10:50] There it is.
[2:10:53] Okay.
[2:10:57] So, you know, we've we've had the questions regarding, you know, the warrant list in the past.
[2:11:04] And this is the agenda item today that shows the warrant list of.
[2:11:09] Of money spent in the last couple of weeks.
[2:11:13] And on there, there is a.
[2:11:16] Highlighted blue area where you can hit check registry, which takes you to.
[2:11:21] The clerk's office.
[2:11:24] And once that comes up, you can see that.
[2:11:28] Here is.
[2:11:29] And if we want to look at the exact dates that.
[2:11:34] We're in the agenda item.
[2:11:36] Sorry.
[2:11:37] Let me go back to the.
[2:11:40] The agenda item at this was from November 17th to the 23rd.
[2:11:45] You can go back here and you can click.
[2:11:49] The 17th.
[2:11:52] To the.
[2:11:54] The 23rd December.
[2:11:56] There we go.
[2:12:01] And if you hit submit.
[2:12:03] It's going to come up with.
[2:12:06] A list of all of the checks that.
[2:12:10] That were issued during that period.
[2:12:12] Now, you can see that it's just a constant list of.
[2:12:16] Vendor name.
[2:12:20] Accurate systems.
[2:12:22] And now.
[2:12:23] Just scroll through.
[2:12:24] You can see there's just an ongoing.
[2:12:26] Let's all the checks that were that were issued in the preceding weeks.
[2:12:30] Before this agenda item.
[2:12:34] And boundary medical is an example of one.
[2:12:36] It's a medical supplies for fire rescue.
[2:12:39] And for instance, you can.
[2:12:42] You know, take information.
[2:12:44] Oh, you just.
[2:12:45] You just.
[2:12:46] You just.
[2:12:47] You on the right.
[2:12:48] So the view will just.
[2:12:49] I'm just going to bring back.
[2:12:51] So the.
[2:12:52] Before we do that, I'll show that this is like the check number.
[2:12:56] And so you can see there's.
[2:12:57] Lots of different individual items for which one check was issued.
[2:13:01] So if you hit copy.
[2:13:03] You can go back to.
[2:13:05] So this information can be sorted in different ways.
[2:13:08] So we put the check number.
[2:13:10] Uh, in there and hit submit.
[2:13:12] You'll see the total amount.
[2:13:14] That was issued to.
[2:13:16] Uh, boundary medical services.
[2:13:19] Which was $4,000.
[2:13:21] Uh, for for them.
[2:13:23] If you.
[2:13:24] You know, so the the point in the course boundary.
[2:13:29] Is medical supplies for fire rescue.
[2:13:32] So when you approve the budget, there is a line item that has medical supplies and fire rescue.
[2:13:38] That that the board had to approve.
[2:13:40] It's your budget hearing.
[2:13:42] Then fire rescue at some point.
[2:13:44] Time had to do and a bid proposal for medical supplies.
[2:13:47] With Miss brother routine was here earlier.
[2:13:50] Would have issued an RFP or a bid proposal for that.
[2:13:54] That bid award would have been awarded either depending upon the amount.
[2:13:59] Uh, at a board meeting like today.
[2:14:02] Um, then at the which point it becomes you authorize a contract to be executed.
[2:14:08] That contract gets executed and then staff can actually purchase materials from boundary medical.
[2:14:16] They then submit us an invoice saying, okay, you've bought these services.
[2:14:21] And then it goes back to here.
[2:14:22] The other piece of this.
[2:14:23] This is on the clerk's website.
[2:14:25] Part of the clerk court's job Miss Carolyn Timon as our chief financial officer.
[2:14:31] Also verifies that all of these processes were actually done in the proper order.
[2:14:36] And that we expanded them properly.
[2:14:38] Uh, and then they course at the end of the year we have an audit.
[2:14:41] So just wanted to say that the the check registry is a summary of checks that were issued in total amounts.
[2:14:50] In the last um, um, preceding, uh, two weeks.
[2:14:55] But you can also see actually in any date range you want.
[2:15:00] Those types of registries. Now, the information under view, I can, so you go back to boundary. Just to hit view, you're not, it's, the, the information here, just again, just gives you the total of what I showed you before, but you can, you can put in, if you knew the vendors name, you can put it in here, the vendor invoice number, the minimum amount, or if you don't know any of that.
[2:15:30] You can go through the list, you can copy that information and put it back in and sort. You can also sort it by, by different dates, if, if you, if you so desire. So there is a lot of information there.
[2:15:43] But again, the, the consent item that has the list of check registry in order for that to have suspended, it kind of approved many times before they get there. So you're, you've already actually approved the budget, you've approved the contracts and then this is just a way to, to provide the public with a summary of what was expanded.
[2:16:10] And you would expect that given the size of our budget that we're going to be spending anywhere from about a million and a half dollars or to three million dollars every agenda item on contracted services or more.
[2:16:26] So that, that, that's just the nature of the size of our, of our businesses that this is, this is a week basically showing the difference from, from, so every time you see these check, these summaries, you could expect that you're, you're counting in, in check dispersments is going to be exceeding several million dollars every time you see one of these.
[2:16:55] But it's all based upon, for instance, you can see all the F.P. and L. bills.
[2:17:00] So then you each building has a different meter and sometimes there's, we have street lights. And so you could see how much we spend on electricity.
[2:17:08] If you wanted to summarize these every week or through the year. So the information is there. It's not, it isn't in, in this, replaces, but it's, we did try to make it a little bit easier for you to find it.
[2:17:20] And again, you can find the, each vendor that you can, or you can roll through the entire list of the thousands of invoices that we received.
[2:17:31] Question.
[2:17:33] That's it.
[2:17:35] If someone saw, like you used Bountry as an example, if someone went and saw there was $4,000 with a checks.
[2:17:40] If you don't know what Bountry medical is, you wouldn't know what Bountry medical is. Is there a way that someone could then, either dig down or if they had a question, then they could contact.
[2:17:49] Specifically.
[2:17:50] There is, I just don't have it. Again, I'm, my, my, my, it may perhaps that's the next exercise in educating the public when we come down here.
[2:18:01] Be, you know, how do you track Bountry back to their original purchase order and original bid?
[2:18:08] There is a way to do that. I just can't tell you exactly off the top of my head. I know how it gets to this point.
[2:18:14] Going reverse, I would have to, I would have to, I'd like to practice it at least once before I come back to that.
[2:18:20] So for our next episode of Don explains it all. We're going to need you to show.
[2:18:27] I will have Miss Burley here and just simply because I get that you can see the name of the vendor and the dollar amount.
[2:18:35] But certain vendor names, some of them are obvious, FPL, AT&T, but some of them are not as obvious.
[2:18:43] That's very helpful. Thank you. Yes. Thank you.
[2:18:46] We have had in the past. I know there's one person's very specific about this.
[2:18:51] We have every six months or nine months had a review of that the information is there.
[2:18:58] It's not flashing on the homepage, but it is available for anybody that is interested in going to that level to see exactly what we have.
[2:19:07] I think the most important point you made is first it should up in if it's depending on what is a CIP sheet or a line item in someone's annual budget.
[2:19:18] Then the reason I got there is an employee decided then the department had decided then Don looked at it and then financial looked at it and then Carolyn Timon and her team looked at it.
[2:19:29] So it's not like someone can necessarily just start writing checks, not that the system is 1,000% full proof, it's always something.
[2:19:39] But I think overall our system is pretty tight in their award-winning Carolyn Timons and her team wins awards on making this very full proof.
[2:19:50] Yes. They watch it closely, which is what their job is to do.
[2:19:54] She's also the comptroller.
[2:19:57] Anything else Commissioner Vargas?
[2:20:00] No, just my comment earlier.
[2:20:03] I would like to follow up with the CRA building and zoning about the street side tables and chairs.
[2:20:11] So I do have a note here on our appreciate if you could please fold that up Mr. Donaldson.
[2:20:16] Yes.
[2:20:17] And certainly if legal needs to be consulted about that.
[2:20:20] We're in COVID, lots of different things happen. We are long past that.
[2:20:24] And other businesses, they want to put tables and chairs outside and where does someone walk in ADA and all of that.
[2:20:31] So that's critical, I think. That's important. That's public safety too.
[2:20:36] Thank you.
[2:20:38] No, no further comments.
[2:20:40] Mr. Kim.
[2:20:41] Well, I'll just mention that on the Brownfield matter that we just took up.
[2:20:47] There was this is not a subject matter that we've taken up a lot in the past.
[2:20:54] And even before I became a commissioner and I was watching a lot of the YouTube videos of these meetings.
[2:21:00] And Brownfield doesn't come up very much.
[2:21:03] I think this is the second time in Martin County history.
[2:21:07] So it was a learning experience for all of us.
[2:21:11] And with regard to the technical requirements and the five things that we have to look at will be looking at those a lot closer at the next hearing.
[2:21:22] Because I think some of the commissioners here have brought us some really valid points about whether those elements are really being satisfied.
[2:21:32] So we'll look at that closely at the next meeting.
[2:21:35] What you're capable.
[2:21:38] Thank you. Two things. One I wanted to remind everyone.
[2:21:41] Some people watch the morning and don't watch the afternoon on Saturday, this coming Saturday, December 13th, 6 to 8.
[2:21:49] We're having music in the park, which is this time dueling pianos with a sing along.
[2:21:55] It's on map road.
[2:21:57] It's at the patio at Palm City Place, which if you're not familiar is immediately next door to the Palm City Station 21 fire station.
[2:22:06] It'll be a lot of fun. There'll be food truck. You can bring your own food. You can order in or there'll be food and beverage trucks there.
[2:22:12] It's a full family neighborhood kind of event. We'd love to have you come.
[2:22:17] And then knowing that this is our last meeting of the year, I'd like to wish my colleagues a healthy and happy holiday season.
[2:22:25] All of our staff, our residents, the most important gift that I could wish for you is health.
[2:22:32] I wish you all a very happy healthy holiday season, but wish you all a happy healthy 2026.
[2:22:40] Thank you so much.
[2:22:42] Thank you, Mr. Ratherington. I'd just say Merry Christmas and happy new year and we'll see you back on the 6th.
[2:22:47] And to our colleague, happy birthday.
[2:22:49] Well, thank you so much. My husband will make it up to you very well.
[2:22:53] And with that, thank you.
[2:22:56] I just thank you all for a great year. Martin County is the finest of the 67.
[2:23:01] We have a lot to be thankful.
[2:23:03] We also have a lot of great nonprofits who also would ask my staff and everybody to remember those less fortunate
[2:23:11] and do what we can to help those in our community.
[2:23:14] Indeed. Thank you.
[2:23:16] Thank you.
[2:23:17] Thank you.
[2:23:18] And best wishes for a happy and healthy Christmas and a very very happy and healthy new year.
[2:23:24] See you everybody next year.
[2:23:26] Thanks.
[2:23:28] Thanks, Leland.
[2:23:54] Merry Christmas.