[0:00] Oh, okay. All right, good evening, ladies
and gentlemen.
[0:04] Uh, gentlemen, we're going to call this
meeting to order of the Comprehensive Land
[0:09] Use Advisory Committee.
[0:11] Um, to order, um, our first order on the
agenda is going to be our prayer and
[0:16] pledge, and I've asked Commissioner Jerry
Strand if he would lead us in the prayer
[0:21] and Ms. Deborah Notley if she'd lead us in
the pledge.
[0:24] So if y'all would please rise, Mr. Strand
will lead us. You have the floor, sir.
[0:30] Heavenly Father, we thank you for this
opportunity to serve this great community.
[0:35] We thank you, Lord, for choosing each one
of us to help lead this community.
[0:40] And especially thank you for the community
that comes forward that speaks for the
[0:45] brothers and sisters here in Murray
County.
[0:48] We pray, Lord, that thy will be done and
decisions made will be decisions We thank
[0:53] you for this wonderful nation.
[0:55] We thank you for this wonderful state that
we live in,
[0:58] and this gracious county and the people
who live in it.
[1:02] Lord, we thank you for sending your Son
Jesus Christ to die for us,
[1:06] that we might live, we might find joy,
peace in this life.
[1:10] Go with us now as we meet as a community.
In your name we pray. Amen.
[1:15] Amen.
[1:18] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
[1:23] United States of America and to the
republic
[1:23] for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible,
[1:26] with liberty and justice for all. Thank
you all for that.
[1:30] Okay, our next item on the agenda,
[1:32] I want to tell everybody where our
emergency exits are.
[1:35] We've got right here to the right of
Robert, there's one back there in the
[1:40] Robert, there's one back there in the
back, uh,
[1:40] where the double doors are, and over here
between the 2 screens,
[1:44] if you go out that door to the end, you
can go right at the sundrop box,
[1:49] and that'll get you outside as well.
[1:51] We ask that you have your cell phone
silent for this.
[1:54] If you need to have any conversations,
please take it outside.
[1:58] Our agenda description here— this isn't so
much a debate or a meeting.
[2:02] This is a work session. This is a study
session.
[2:05] So tonight Our consultant is going to be
presenting to us the data that they've
[2:10] collected at the different meetings at the
different schools that we've gone to,
[2:14] and I was hoping— there he is here, Mr.
Perryman.
[2:17] Thank you for the generosity of the school
system and letting us use those
[2:22] facilities during summer break to do all
that,
[2:25] so please convey our thanks to the school
board and all—
[2:28] and whoever needs to go for doing that and
letting us do that,
[2:32] but all that data that's been collected,
we're going to be—
[2:35] this body goes over that tonight,
[2:37] There is a table in front of the right
screen right there in which the public,
[2:42] if they want to look at that map as well
and make notes, that they can.
[2:46] So that said, the next thing we're going
to do—
[2:49] so there's really not so much an agenda or
a vote or things like that.
[2:54] Our consultant will talk about it more
when we get to that part.
[2:57] But the next thing we are going to do is
our public comment period.
[3:02] So in our— in the bylaws of this
committee, we have a 30-minute period set
[3:06] committee, we have a 30-minute period set
up.
[3:06] Anybody that wishes to come speak may come
forward and do so.
[3:10] Is there— There is a sign-up sheet.
[3:12] If somebody— yeah, Chris, is anybody
signed up back there? Yes, sir.
[3:16] Now, we will have another comment period
at the end of the meeting as well,
[3:21] so what we'll do, each person will just—
you'll come up,
[3:24] state your name and the district you live
in, and you'll have 3 minutes.
[3:28] So the first person I've got is Glenn
Alexander out of Cullioca.
[3:34] Yes, sir.
[3:34] Come on up to the podium, state your name,
the district you live in,
[3:40] and you'll have 3 minutes. Glenn
Alexander, a little bit of Collioca.
[3:46] I think it's 5th Civil District.
[3:48] My family has a pretty well ancient
history with Tennessee back before Andrew
[3:55] Jackson. Some of them Grandpa Fulton,
Tennesseans, Kings Mountain.
[4:00] The others followed Andrew Jackson down to
New Orleans and came back to Tennessee.
[4:07] So we love Tennessee.
[4:09] You know, people look at the Civil War and
they want to make it all bad,
[4:15] and it was bad, but the main issue That
these Southern folks didn't want outsiders
[4:22] telling them what to do. And that's really
the issue that we have here today.
[4:28] We have a handful of people, outsiders
mainly,
[4:32] coming in and wanting to control our
property,
[4:36] wanting to control if you have a driveway,
wanting to control if you can—
[4:42] Right on a little country road,
[4:45] want to control that if you want to divide
your property up into 5 acres or larger
[4:52] without being micromanaged to do so.
[4:55] But I'll tell you, if you live in a house,
[4:58] what's wrong with your neighbor getting a
house?
[5:03] If you have a driveway, what's wrong with
your neighbor getting a driveway?
[5:09] What would these people do that are so
vocal trying to control us have done if we
[5:16] had— Tennessee, 20 years ago, said we
don't want any more outsiders.
[5:21] If you're not from Tennessee born and
bred, you don't get in here.
[5:27] If we'd only known— knew— if we'd only
known what we know now,
[5:32] I wonder if we'd have put up some
roadblocks.
[5:36] But I'll tell you, what we're dealing with
here is someone telling you what to do
[5:43] with your property that you pay taxes on,
that you take care of,
[5:48] and that you've got to leave to your
children and your grandchildren.
[5:54] It goes back to the verse in the Bible, do
you love your neighbor as yourself?
[6:01] And are you going to leave this place
better or worse?
[6:05] Let's leave it in a better place.
[6:08] Sometimes leaving it in a better place is
leaving it the way we found it. Thank you.
[6:15] Yes, sir. All right. Next person signed up
is Theresa Sparks.
[6:20] And come on up, state your name and your
district, and you'll have 3 minutes,
[6:27] district, and you'll have 3 minutes,
ma'am.
[6:27] Theresa Sparks, District 9.
[6:29] Since we're talking about family history,
[6:33] let it be known that my family came down
the Cumberland River on the Donelson
[6:39] Flotilla to Fort Nashboro. That's how long
my family has been here.
[6:45] Way before Civil War, way before anything
else happened. I love Tennessee.
[6:51] It's an agriculture state, and we live in
an agriculture county.
[6:57] Like it or not, it's right here, and it's
right here.
[7:01] I'm here, so, You know, just on that
point, we have to feed people.
[7:07] A nation that can't feed people, a county
that can't feed people, is a nightmare.
[7:13] It's— you cannot defend yourself if you
can't feed people.
[7:18] If we don't have farmland, we can't feed
people.
[7:23] Period. End of story.
[7:24] There are 3 ways to protect our farmland
today. The greenbelt, that's economic.
[7:31] The AP district, which is a county
designation,
[7:34] which is a fabulous tool if we can get
people to use it.
[7:39] And the conservation easement, which— so
they kind of go in that order,
[7:44] but they can work together.
[7:47] So let's take the AP district.
[7:51] There are counties— I have a playbook that
I've written here.
[7:55] I'd love to pass this out to everybody.
[7:58] It compares all the counties around us—
Knox County, Wilson County, Coffee County—
[8:04] to what we're doing.
[8:06] And the AP District stands out as a
shining tool to be used for farmland
[8:11] preservation.
[8:12] And then I compare—
[8:13] I looked at every southeastern county and
how they have deployed the AP District,
[8:19] a voluntary AP District. And there's
incentives to do so, and there's great
[8:25] incentives to do so, and there's great
ideas.
[8:25] And so what I would like to propose
tonight is this body, as part of this land
[8:31] tonight is this body, as part of this land
map,
[8:32] that we look at a voluntary agriculture
preservation designation.
[8:36] And if my husband will stand up, on the
back of his shirt is—
[8:41] I didn't have enough room for it, but the
process is too lengthy.
[8:46] It's too cumbersome.
[8:47] Thank you.
[8:48] I didn't have all that real estate.
[8:50] We have an opportunity, and I outlined
that here,
[8:54] to do an opt-in to the AP district. It's a
simple form.
[8:58] It has to have legislative approval from
this body, you know,
[9:02] whether that's the commission or whatever.
But it's a simple opt-in form.
[9:07] It's notarized, and that burden now falls
on the county And there's incentives in
[9:13] place to choose the AP district and to
elect the AP district and to move
[9:18] elect the AP district and to move
seamlessly,
[9:19] voluntarily into the AP district.
[9:21] So I have copies I would love to hand out,
[9:24] but I think it's a seamless approach to
making this happen. All right.
[9:29] Thank you, Teresa. The next person we've
got is Dave Townsend.
[9:34] Sir, if you'll come up to the podium. Let
me reset this thing.
[9:38] Hello, I'm Dave Townsend. You have 3
minutes.
[9:42] Live off of Harlan Road on the north side
of town.
[9:45] I'm also a real estate agent, been in the
county in some capacity.
[9:50] I was a Central graduate in 1994, so I've
seen things change over the years.
[9:55] It's I get it. There's a lot of reaction
to this.
[9:59] One of the biggest problems I think that
we're having is because the national
[10:04] homebuilders are the ones who are coming
into the cities and they're utilizing
[10:10] into the cities and they're utilizing
sewer
[10:10] systems and the existing infrastructure to
expand outward.
[10:14] What I work with and who I work with are
mostly the local homebuilders.
[10:19] These are the guys who are building on
1-acre pieces of land,
[10:24] building nice home developments,
[10:26] And they are getting squeezed out because
of the national home builders into the
[10:32] main areas, as well as the limitations
that we could be seeing with 5-acre lots.
[10:38] I want you to consider that if this body
decides to go after 5-acre lot minimums,
[10:43] what we are going to end up with are
really high lot prices.
[10:48] So you're looking $300,000 for some 5-acre
parcels and even more.
[10:52] There's a parcel on Old Zion Road I saw
today that was at $250,000.
[10:57] So you end up with some land value ratios
that you end up having problems with that
[11:03] you cannot get funding for.
[11:05] And I'm happy to explain that in more
detail, but I don't have a ton of time
[11:10] detail, but I don't have a ton of time
here.
[11:11] I have a document here I prepared for you
guys with 18 different negative things
[11:17] that a 5-acre lot could bring to Murray
County.
[11:20] And I'm an avid gardener too, and I love
the idea of agricultural preservation.
[11:26] That is A great thing if it is feasible.
[11:28] But you can't force a farmer to maintain
their property.
[11:32] If they leave it to the next generation,
[11:35] that next generation may not have any
interest in farming that property.
[11:40] So it's got to be a voluntary kind of
thing, and you cannot just—
[11:45] I think you take away people's property
rights when you start doing 5-acre lot
[11:51] minimums. One thing I thought of was if
you had a 9-acre lot and a guy wanted to
[11:56] leave 1 acre to one of his kids, with a
5-acre minimum, you couldn't do it.
[12:02] You would have one lot that was
nonconforming. You could not do that.
[12:07] So that's going to create a lot of
problems for people who maybe have
[12:12] problems for people who maybe have
thought, hey,
[12:13] I could leave an acre to one of my kids,
[12:15] but maybe they only had 5 to 10 acres to
begin with, and so they're out.
[12:21] So—
[12:21] So I want you to seriously consider the
implications of all these things,
[12:24] and if it's okay with y'all,
[12:26] I'll hand this document out so everybody
has a copy of it.
[12:28] Just give it to the person on the end and
he'll pass it down from there.
[12:31] Sounds good.
[12:32] Is that all you had? Okay. Next person on
the list is Kevin, and is it Byer?
[12:38] B— Byer? Yeah, Kevin Byer. It is Byer. I
got it right. Very good, sir.
[12:43] Please come up and state your name and
your district, please.
[12:48] I'm Kevin Byer in District 9. We reside at
2293 Frankmoor Road.
[12:52] Um, so I'm pretty concerned that the
advisory committee has been receiving
[12:58] advisory committee has been receiving
biased
[12:58] and incomplete picture of what the
community views are on the whole proposed
[13:04] community views are on the whole proposed
zoning
[13:04] changes. I think there's a small group of
people that are Overwhelming the public
[13:11] comment period. Overwhelming the public
comment period to try to attempt to get
[13:17] downzoning through. Also, there's, I
think,
[13:20] an attempt to pressure other people to
adopt that position.
[13:24] I think the will of the people should
really be—
[13:28] should reflect the broader community, not
just a small number of people. Thank you.
[13:34] My wife and I have lived on Frank Moore
Road in Collioca for about the last 5
[13:40] Road in Collioca for about the last 5
years.
[13:40] We bought our farm 18 years ago and have
farmed cow-calf operations since then.
[13:46] I didn't come from a lot of money. I
worked really hard for everything I have.
[13:52] I didn't inherit anything. And so we have
500 acres and about 200 mama cows.
[13:58] It's a lot of work. And so I don't— I'm— I
don't think it's fair for individual—
[14:04] a small individual— a small group of
individuals to come in and try to downzone
[14:10] individuals to come in and try to downzone
our
[14:10] properties. What that—
[14:12] what happens with that is we lose a
tremendous amount of property value.
[14:17] And I have no intent of selling or
developing our property.
[14:22] I want to keep it the way it is.
[14:24] But I also don't want my kids to to lose a
lot of potential funds that they have in
[14:30] the future. I don't know if they'll ever
want to farm.
[14:34] I hope they do, but there's a good chance
they won't. Okay?
[14:39] So I don't think that this area is at risk
of a big development spurge or
[14:44] development activity anytime soon. The
infrastructure is not there.
[14:49] We don't have the water. We don't have the
road system yet.
[14:54] We don't have the schools.
[14:56] And just as the past speakers spoke about,
[14:59] the realtor said there are a lot of
negatives when you downzone.
[15:04] When you downzone and go to 5 acres,
[15:06] that causes urban sprawl to occur because
you have a lot fewer lots available closer
[15:13] to the city. And so you end up developing
farther out. They're more expensive lots.
[15:19] And so a lot of these farms will probably
get broken up. If you do that.
[15:24] So I think it may have the opposite intent
of what people want to do.
[15:30] You know, there's a comment, I think,
[15:32] by some that downzoning or forming these
agricultural corridors doesn't impact the
[15:39] value. Well, it really dramatically does.
[15:42] I think, you know, in reality, when
properties get downzoned,
[15:46] there's dramatic loss in property values.
[15:49] Yes.
[15:50] And I think it's not fair for the
community to make the farmers and the
[15:55] community to make the farmers and the
landowners
[15:56] bear that— bear that downzone, that
financial cost.
[16:00] The concerns that I think that I have, my
wife has,
[16:04] and I think a lot of the farmers in the
community is that downzone will result in
[16:10] severe land devaluation.
[16:12] That will reduce the amount that we can
pass on to our children.
[16:16] And I've worked hard for what I have.
[16:19] And I don't think it's fair for people to
come in and take that without
[16:24] remuneration. I think if you want to
remunerate—
[16:28] if you want to take a lot of property
value,
[16:31] then someone should be responsible for
paying for that.
[16:35] And how is Murray County going to do that?
Give me 15 more seconds.
[16:40] All right.
[16:41] Downloading farms for the benefit of
others in the community is inherently
[16:46] others in the community is inherently
unfair.
[16:47] It's— you're taking the property value
rights of people who own property, um,
[16:52] and it shifts the financial burden to
those farmers and the property values so
[16:58] those farmers and the property values so
that
[16:58] other— others benefit.
[17:00] And as mentioned, the downzoning has the
opposite effect that I think a lot of
[17:05] people believe it will. It accelerates
rural sprawl. It raises housing costs.
[17:11] It restricts supply,
[17:12] and it ultimately results in a lot of
well-funded developers to come in and
[17:18] ultimately buy properties cheap and then
get them rezoned.
[17:22] So anyway, I appreciate your time. Thank
you. All right. Thank you, sir.
[17:27] Next person up is Stanley Scott.
[17:29] Sir, come on up and state your name and
your district, and you'll have 3 minutes,
[17:35] sir. Stanley Scott. I'm in the 9th
District,
[17:38] and my address is 2241 Mooresville Pike.
[17:41] I've lived in Culeoaka my entire life on
my, my 6th generational farm.
[17:46] This is where I intend to stay.
[17:48] If you go down the road just a couple of
miles,
[17:52] you can say we're 9 or 10 generations.
[17:54] And I had ancestors fought in the
Revolutionary War.
[17:58] My family and ancestors fought the British
for more than 1,000 years in Scotland and
[18:04] Ireland so we could have freedom from a
tyrannical, overbearing government.
[18:10] Then we came to America and fought them
again to have freedom with an unmeasured
[18:15] amount of blood and treasure.
[18:17] Now it looks like we're gonna— Just make
it a little closer in there. Okay.
[18:23] Now it looks like we're gonna have
someone, in my opinion,
[18:27] try to diminish our right To truly own our
property and dictate what we do.
[18:32] I say, why is it not mine to do as I see
fit?
[18:35] Property rights are one of the main
freedoms we have to be able to buy or sell
[18:41] freedoms we have to be able to buy or sell
to
[18:41] whoever we choose. I think it's— I look at
it like it's—
[18:45] you're trying to do maybe like you're
going to eat an elephant one bite at a
[18:51] going to eat an elephant one bite at a
time
[18:51] and you start You know, you do take this
right from us and what are you going—
[18:56] right from us and what are you going—
what,
[18:57] you go down that road, what right are you
going to take from us next?
[19:02] I never intend to sell my farmland when—
but when you go down that road,
[19:07] where are you going to stop? Which rights
are you planning on taking away next?
[19:13] Careful what you wish for is what I have
to say.
[19:16] I for sure do not want anyone—
[19:18] someone that come in from a transplant
from another part of the country and tell
[19:24] from another part of the country and tell
me
[19:24] what I can or cannot do with my property.
[19:27] And I'm probably ready to fight for it
too.
[19:30] I think, you know, somebody's going to
have to make some tough decisions and
[19:35] have to make some tough decisions and
decide
[19:36] whether to put some impact fees on it.
[19:39] I hear you can't do that because of state
laws, but get that changed.
[19:44] But, you know, don't take my property
rights away from me.
[19:48] I don't ever want a foot of my property
sold, but I can't, you know,
[19:53] I can't rule but so much from the grave.
But it won't be sold in my lifetime.
[19:58] But I don't want somebody else telling me
what I can or can't do with it.
[20:03] Thank you, sir. Thank you for that.
[20:06] Okay.
[20:07] And let's see, next on the list is Chris
Grambling. You have the floor, sir.
[20:12] Give us your name and district. You'll
have 3 minutes. Thanks. Chris Grambling.
[20:18] Sorry.
[20:19] Chris Grambling.
[20:21] District 9. A couple points.
[20:23] I would say that property rights don't
exist in a vacuum.
[20:27] I don't think anyone wants me saying under
the, you know,
[20:32] the banner of I can do anything I want
with my property,
[20:36] that I'm just going to build a manure
lagoon feet away from your house.
[20:42] I think that there's a very big difference
between a family or a person owning a
[20:48] piece of property and doing reasonably
what they want with it versus that person
[20:54] selling to a corporation, a general
partnership.
[20:58] There's a very different thing between a
land developer and a person doing what
[21:04] land developer and a person doing what
they
[21:04] want to do with something.
[21:06] I'd also say that although I agree with
Dave Townsend about the 5-acre thing,
[21:12] I would say we should consider that the AP
does allow us to peel off acreage for
[21:19] families. There's the ability for the
families to subdivide.
[21:23] So I just want to make sure that that's
understood.
[21:27] But I also would say that, and I've said
here before,
[21:32] the county is not homogeneous in its
nature.
[21:35] Right outside that door is very different
from my neighborhood in Culioca.
[21:41] And we shouldn't say that any one—
[21:43] we shouldn't say that all areas should be
5-acre minimums or 1-acre minimum.
[21:49] It should be applied.
[21:51] Applied in a sensible manner that respects
the nature of the area.
[21:56] I think we also need to consider that it
doesn't—
[22:00] the so-called downzoning doesn't degrade
the property value.
[22:05] I mean, look at Leapers Fork. Look at
what's happened up there.
[22:10] You know, Aubrey— everyone knows what
Aubrey Preston did up there.
[22:15] And that's one of the most valuable areas
for real estate there is around here.
[22:21] So I think we need to consider that. And I
forgot my train of thought.
[22:29] Pardon?
[22:32] If you'll humor me for just a moment,
please.
[22:36] Oh, there's a very big difference between
a property owner having a family farm that
[22:42] are contiguous acres and those that are
spread out, that are non-contiguous.
[22:48] And I question what the motive is about
that.
[22:51] Is it about money or is it really about
farming?
[22:55] And then the last thought I forgot, so
I'll talk to you guys afterwards. Thank
[23:01] I'll talk to you guys afterwards. Thank
you.
[23:01] All right. Thank you, sir. Next one up is
Dustin Kittle.
[23:06] Uh, sir, if you'll come up and give us
your name and your district,
[23:11] you'll have 3 minutes. I'll defer to the
end if that's okay. Absolutely.
[23:16] All right, we'll do that at the end. Very
good.
[23:20] That was the last person that has signed
up for public comments.
[23:25] So that said, next item on the agenda is
that we're going to turn it over to our
[23:31] consultants. Welcome back, and, uh, you
have the floor, ma'am.
[23:35] All right, thank you.
[23:37] Pull that mic down so we can hear you
good.
[23:39] All right. Is that good?
[23:40] Yes.
[23:41] Okay. So tonight we're going to have kind
of a work session around the future land
[23:47] use map. And we've already been kind of on
a journey with this map,
[23:53] but I figured it might be helpful to kind
of go back and start with just kind of a
[23:59] refresher of what your existing future
land use map looks like and how it works.
[24:05] So to start, a future land use map is a
very key element of a comprehensive plan.
[24:12] It's really kind of the key focus.
[24:14] It's what people are going to look at
first and refer to the most.
[24:19] And so it is a very critical part of the
plan and the planning process.
[24:25] The future land use map establishes the
vision for the community.
[24:30] It is not legally binding.
[24:32] No designation on a future land use map
will change your zoning, change your
[24:38] will change your zoning, change your
taxes,
[24:39] change change or anything. It's a vision.
[24:42] So it does not involve any legalness at
all.
[24:45] But the kind of the purpose of how the
future land use map is used is that when
[24:51] somebody comes in for rezoning of their
property,
[24:55] they want to develop their property,
[24:58] you're going to look at what the future
land use map says.
[25:03] You know, what does it recommend in terms
of uses, in terms of lot sizes,
[25:08] and does that development match what the
plan is saying.
[25:13] And making a decision when the Planning
Commission and the boards make a decision
[25:19] based off of the recommendations of the
comprehensive plan, that gives you that,
[25:25] that foundation for why the board made
that decision.
[25:30] So that's, again, future land use maps.
[25:33] Your current Murray County future land use
map looks like this.
[25:38] So And there's what, like 12 or so
categories?
[25:41] It was set up where you had kind of these
bigger categories and then these smaller
[25:48] categories that lived within the bigger
categories.
[25:52] It was kind of a confusing setup,
[25:54] and my guess is it wasn't used to kind of
the level that it was maybe intended to be
[26:01] used. And so I didn't think that this kind
of organization of a future land use map
[26:07] was maybe your guys' like kind of ideal
configuration.
[26:12] But again, this is kind of where we
started.
[26:15] And then when we started looking at the
future land use map,
[26:20] when we kind of look at it in a vacuum,
[26:23] This is where we went and what we brought
to the public meetings last week.
[26:29] So we took kind of the feedback—
[26:31] so we kind of showed the existing future
land use map at the school public
[26:37] land use map at the school public
meetings,
[26:38] and we got some feedback on the map.
[26:41] But mainly those meetings were about the
goals and objectives.
[26:45] So these are really the first times we're
really talking about the map.
[26:51] Okay.
[26:52] And so when we had our meeting last week,
[26:55] I brought this map that no one had seen
before and included the,
[27:01] the urban growth boundaries on it.
[27:03] So this map had the urban growth
boundaries, which was this blue dotted
[27:09] boundaries, which was this blue dotted
line,
[27:10] is your existing approved urban growth
boundaries,
[27:14] and the dotted areas are the proposed
growth areas, just to give you the
[27:20] growth areas, just to give you the
context.
[27:20] And so What I had on this map was a
combination of this green area,
[27:26] the green area of the county being
proposed as 1 unit per 5-acre lot.
[27:32] So agricultural and residential, 1 acre
per 5— 1 unit per 5 acres.
[27:37] The yellow being rural residential of 1
unit per 1 acre. So a 1-to-1.
[27:43] Okay.
[27:44] And then the orange was 4 units to an
acre, and I went too far.
[27:49] So in my head, when I was looking at this
from kind of a planning standpoint,
[27:54] you know, the areas within the urban
growth boundary kind of makes sense for
[28:00] growth boundary kind of makes sense for
more of
[28:01] a suburban development, but it doesn't
make sense for your guys' community.
[28:07] And so we went too far with this.
[28:09] We had a great conversation, and, you
know,
[28:12] we discussed basically getting rid of this
suburban orange residential,
[28:18] which was the 4 units per acre,
[28:20] and pulling back the yellow so that the
map would be mostly green with some yellow
[28:26] kind of buffers around the cities.
[28:29] And so that's— we kind of got that
feedback last week and then have this
[28:35] feedback last week and then have this
updated map
[28:35] for you today to review.
[28:37] So again, that was just sort of the
evolution of how we got to where we are
[28:43] evolution of how we got to where we are
today.
[28:43] The proposed map that we have in front of
you today is by far not the final.
[28:49] Every version and iteration of this is
something for you all to react to,
[28:55] for the public to react to.
[28:57] You know, this map is not final until that
plan is adopted.
[29:01] And so we want the feedback, and I'll kind
of explain mainly, you know,
[29:07] what feedback would be the most helpful.
[29:10] I mean, but any and all feedback is
welcome.
[29:13] So before we dive into the map,
[29:16] I just want to go over kind of the future
land use framework that I've set up here.
[29:22] So in your existing map, again, you guys
have like 12 different categories.
[29:28] There's kind of these layers. I wanted to
simplify it. And just establish 6.
[29:34] So right now we have 6 future land use
categories.
[29:37] If that becomes 5 or 7 or 8, you know, we
can add, we can take away as this evolves.
[29:44] But we have 6 on this map that you are
looking at today.
[29:48] So the green area on the map, which is
again the majority of the map,
[29:53] is identified as this agricultural and
conservation.
[29:57] Okay.
[29:58] So this district would be, you know, your
working farms,
[30:02] your very low-density residential, you
know, your very rural,
[30:07] the things that you have going on in your
rural areas now.
[30:11] And so you kind of can see here, you know,
[30:14] we have a sort of a setup purpose
statement, some appropriate uses.
[30:19] Again, this wouldn't rezone by any means
or change permitted uses.
[30:24] It's just supposed to kind of give that
intent, that vision for that area.
[30:30] So each district is gonna have a purpose
statement, a list of appropriate uses,
[30:36] and then kind of some character
descriptions.
[30:39] And then as this evolves into the actual
planning document, we'll add pictures,
[30:45] we'll add more additional text, you know,
[30:48] to further kind of explain what these
districts are.
[30:52] So this is your low-density residential,
agricultural, rural forestry, natural
[30:58] agricultural, rural forestry, natural
area.
[30:58] And the recommended density for that at
the moment is 1 dwelling per 5 acres,
[31:04] and I made this little graphic.
[31:06] And so that's the agriculture—
agricultural and conservation.
[31:11] So then the yellow is rural residential.
[31:14] So this becomes your 1-to-1 residential
density of 1 dwelling unit per acre,
[31:19] represented by that graphic. So you can
kind of see that difference.
[31:25] And this would be, again,
[31:26] very similar in terms of like the uses and
allowances as the agricultural and
[31:32] conservation, just having that smaller lot
size and kind of serving as that
[31:38] transition between your rural areas and
your more developed areas in the cities
[31:44] your more developed areas in the cities
and
[31:44] things like that. So the intent again is
sort of for that yellow area to be that
[31:50] transition. So we go from, you know, Big
lot agricultural to, you know,
[31:55] slightly smaller to then the cities, you
know,
[31:59] and their more urban suburban development
patterns. So that's those 2.
[32:04] The 3rd category, I had it called hamlets
last time.
[32:08] We call little kind of these little
crossroad or rural crossroads or rural
[32:13] communities, a lot of times we call them
hamlets in Ohio.
[32:18] But we're now— I changed it to rural
communities,
[32:21] but this designation is blue on the map.
You'll see it's very small and targeted.
[32:27] It is for the— like a designation for the
existing kind of small rural communities
[32:33] like Collioca, like downtown, like the
Santa Fe, Williamsport, those areas.
[32:39] And so where we have kind of, you know,
usually there's a major crossroad.
[32:45] There's going to be a couple, you know,
couple buildings or businesses,
[32:50] maybe a little bit of slightly denser
residential right around where there's
[32:56] residential right around where there's
that
[32:56] kind of service and commercial uses, but
it gets pretty rural pretty fast.
[33:01] So that is the rural communities.
[33:04] The corridor commercial, this is new from
last week too.
[33:08] So this is the darker purple on the map.
[33:11] We didn't have kind of an in-between
commercial category.
[33:15] And so this district is sort of intended
to serve as the county roads that
[33:21] to serve as the county roads that
currently
[33:22] have or are intended to have kind of that
commercial corridor uses.
[33:27] You know, where you have like on 31 in the
areas of the county, you know,
[33:32] and there's commercial development,
[33:35] those areas are the areas going out to the
highway.
[33:38] So I believe most of the areas that we
have highlighted as this corridor
[33:44] have highlighted as this corridor
commercial
[33:45] are areas that are currently zoned
commercial on the zoning map.
[33:49] So those should just kind of be in line
with what they would be permitted to do
[33:55] today. Employment is the light purple.
[33:58] That's, again, you're going to be intended
for your more industrial,
[34:03] more large-scale employment.
[34:05] Those areas on the map are your currently
zoned industrial areas.
[34:10] So future land use maps don't have to
mimic zoning,
[34:14] but for communities where you want to kind
of reinforce your zoning and that the map
[34:20] can be kind of used as a, you know, we
want to keep industrial in these areas,
[34:26] we want to kind of keep it You know,
[34:29] the map is a way that we can kind of
determine if you all want to expand some
[34:35] determine if you all want to expand some
of
[34:35] these industrial employment areas or if
you just kind of want to maintain the
[34:40] you just kind of want to maintain the
areas
[34:41] that exist today, kind of without
extensive expansion.
[34:45] So employment, office, industrial, you
know, business parks, corporate campuses,
[34:51] supporting uses, you know, kind of what
you think of with employment.
[34:56] And then lastly, we have regional
interchanges.
[35:00] So this is a district that only applies To
the interchanges with 65.
[35:05] If we— I'm not sure there's anywhere else
it would be appropriate,
[35:10] but there could be some other areas of the
county where we have kind of major road
[35:16] intersections that this might be
appropriate.
[35:19] But I look at this as the more
high-intensity commercial developments
[35:24] high-intensity commercial developments
that happen
[35:25] around highway interchanges.
[35:27] You know, you have your hotels, your
restaurants, your gas stations.
[35:32] Okay.
[35:33] your fast food. You know, you could have
services, entertainment uses maybe,
[35:38] maybe professional uses, things like that.
[35:41] So your more kind of intense commercial
development, but again,
[35:46] those should be pretty tight to those
areas around that interchange without kind
[35:51] areas around that interchange without kind
of
[35:51] snaking into the surrounding areas.
[35:54] So that's the idea of those Of kind of the
6 categories and how they would apply to
[36:00] the map. So in all these discussions, if
we, you know,
[36:03] if you're thinking about the map and you
feel like there's another category that
[36:09] we're missing that we should add, you
know, let's talk about it.
[36:13] If we need to do something different,
again, this is all draft at this point.
[36:19] Nothing is set in stone. So happy to, you
know, kind of hear what you guys think.
[36:25] think if you think these 6 categories kind
of accurately depict the different areas
[36:30] of the county, or if you think that we're
missing something.
[36:35] So maybe we can just start with if there's
any feedback on these 6 categories,
[36:40] and then we can start kind of looking
about how those categories are applied to
[36:46] about how those categories are applied to
the
[36:46] map. So any comments on the categories?
[36:49] Hit your button if you want to speak up.
[36:57] Okay.
[36:57] Thank you, Chair. Can, can we put a map up
on screen?
[37:05] Yeah.
[37:05] Thank you.
[37:07] The current proposed one? The one that I
have on the tables? Yeah.
[37:13] Well, that's— there we go. So I'll zoom it
in.
[37:17] So this is the map that we have printed on
the tables.
[37:22] So you can see that the majority of it is
that green,
[37:27] which is that agriculture and
conservation.
[37:31] And then we've pulled the rural
residential into kind of these areas
[37:37] residential into kind of these areas
around the
[37:38] cities. Where we had issues from kind of
looking at this in our little vacuum,
[37:45] you know, and not wanting to kind of make
the call,
[37:50] wanting you all to make the call,
[37:53] is these areas around like Mount Pleasant
and Coleeoka where the lot sizes around
[38:00] the cities are all large.
[38:03] And I can't— if, you know, there's 2
40-acre parcels next to each other,
[38:09] I'm not going to say this parcel—
[38:12] Right.
[38:13] Should be suburban or rural and this one
should be agriculture.
[38:17] So that's where we kind of need feedback
and need to think through, you know,
[38:23] if there are existing large lots around
these developed areas,
[38:27] are there certain parcels that would like
prefer to be in the rural residential?
[38:33] You know, if there are certain property
owners that want to be in that.
[38:38] Yeah.
[38:39] Let us know and we can, you know, identify
that or look, you know,
[38:44] if it makes sense. Um, or the other thing,
sometimes with—
[38:48] since a future land use map is not a legal
tool,
[38:52] it doesn't have to apply directly to
property lines.
[38:56] So the map that we have shown does, um,
but the property lines are really,
[39:01] really light. The next version of the map,
I'll—
[39:05] Okay.
[39:06] make them darker. But one idea that you
all could consider is, you know,
[39:11] when we look at— oh, God, sorry.
[39:13] When we look at Coleoca, you know, we have
the little hamlet area in the center.
[39:19] The lots around it, it's kind of— again,
[39:22] it's hard for us to make the call of where
that boundary should be and if there
[39:28] should be any rural residential around
Coleoca.
[39:32] So— That's all up for discussion, but
what— instead of trying to identify, like,
[39:38] this parcel's in and this parcel's out,
[39:41] one thing you could do is just kind of
establish a buffer.
[39:45] And so if we said, like, you know, any
area within a mile or 5 miles of, you
[39:51] area within a mile or 5 miles of, you
know,
[39:51] the hamlet boundary or of this
intersection kind of would be appropriate
[39:56] intersection kind of would be appropriate
for that
[39:57] rural residential.
[39:58] Okay.
[40:01] So then it becomes sort of a fuzzy line.
[40:04] You know, it doesn't actually tie to
property lines.
[40:07] So if there's something like that that
feels more appropriate,
[40:11] that is something we can consider.
[40:13] I just threw a circle on this map to,
again, just show you kind of the idea of,
[40:18] you know, if we don't want to kind of
handpick,
[40:21] that is an option for you all to consider.
Okay.
[40:25] Jerry, was your light back on again?
[40:26] Oh, yeah.
[40:27] Okay, go ahead. Thanks, Chair.
[40:29] Yeah, if you pop that Culebra map back up
there,
[40:33] you're going to see that you can't build a
house in Culebra unless it's on 5 acres.
[40:40] That's rather absurd.
[40:41] Nobody can go in and build a house
outside,
[40:45] just outside Culebra Unless it's on a
5-acre lot.
[40:49] If somebody, if one of the local
contractors wants to build a house, I'm
[40:55] contractors wants to build a house, I'm
not sure.
[40:55] And I don't get me wrong, I don't want to
pile up houses.
[41:00] But when we do that,
[41:02] if we're looking all that big restriction
and putting all the 5-acre houses in my
[41:08] mind, and I could be wrong, I see another
thing like we have on Trotwood stuff.
[41:14] All we're going to do is just.
[41:17] Pack our— the area that the majority of
the folks that live around in this county
[41:23] live in and just pack it full of 1-acre or
1-acre and quarter-acre lots.
[41:29] And all we'll do is just make the traffic
much, much worse.
[41:34] Not that we want to peel it out, you know,
all over the county, but nevertheless,
[41:41] we need to get off that 5-acre thing in
areas that people would want to live in.
[41:47] In my opinion, and could afford.
[41:50] The price of a house on a 5-acre lot would
be— well,
[41:54] I've worked my whole life and I doubt if I
could afford it.
[41:59] Yeah, and that's a perfect example of— I
agree, I 100% agree,
[42:03] but where do we draw that line? Where does
the line exist between 1-acre and 5-acre?
[42:08] You just drew the line.
[42:10] You just drew it.
[42:11] I just randomly threw a line on a map.
Without any analysis or—
[42:17] Okay, help me, help me understand,
[42:19] because it's difficult for all the folks
sitting up here and the people even out
[42:24] there. Who's going to decide where that
circle is? Is that—
[42:28] The collective.
[42:31] Yeah, what we're here to do. Yeah, but
we're just an advisory committee.
[42:36] The Planning Commission will do that once
we bring our findings to them.
[42:42] So this was again the map that we looked
at last week.
[42:47] The blue dashed line is your— the current
urban growth boundary.
[42:53] And so that again could be used as a tool
to establish that buffer
[42:59] between the 1-acre and the 5-acre.
[43:03] But that current urban growth boundaries
Kind of crazy.
[43:08] Hit your light so we can get your light.
[43:11] Give me all— what you have there, the
current urban growth boundary,
[43:17] is that— how old is that?
[43:19] 2005.
[43:21] And so does the county have a plan to
update that eventually?
[43:26] So, I mean, so I guess what I'm saying is
And then, you know, with that, Sam,
[43:32] that is a joint effort with the
municipalities.
[43:36] And once you open up the urban growth
boundaries, you got 6 months to complete
[43:42] boundaries, you got 6 months to complete
it.
[43:42] So some preliminary talks going into it
before you ever open it up.
[43:48] That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a
future undertaking that needs to occur.
[43:54] You're correct. But I guess what I'm
saying is, or, you know,
[43:59] I guess what I'm getting at is if we do
All of this and go outside of or inside,
[44:06] whatever, and then that changes in 2
years,
[44:09] then where does this stand at that point?
[44:13] Does it then overlay what the county
decides? Does that make sense?
[44:18] Yeah. So at this point, again, your
existing urban growth boundary is 20 years
[44:23] existing urban growth boundary is 20 years
old.
[44:23] Sure.
[44:24] So you're going through the planning
process now.
[44:27] So ultimately you'll have a future land
use map that describes Sure.
[44:32] And that would be a good foundation to
relook at that urban growth boundary.
[44:38] And so one of the just, you know,
discussions that we had last week was
[44:43] discussions that we had last week was
like, do we—
[44:43] can we pull some of these back?
[44:46] Like, the urban growth boundary includes
like all of this area of Santa Fe.
[44:51] I always get that one confused.
[44:53] Basically all of Where it's orange and
yellow in this area between Columbia and
[44:59] Spring Hill, that's all within the urban
growth boundary. So that's a very big
[45:04] growth boundary. So that's a very big
area.
[45:04] And so if that's something that we want to
look at and pull that in at some point,
[45:10] that's a discussion with the cities.
[45:13] I just think, like, the 2 different maps
are very different.
[45:17] Very different.
[45:18] And it just, you know, Maybe neither make
any sense, but something in the middle,
[45:25] I don't, I don't know.
[45:26] But it just seems that, you know, like in
this one that you have today,
[45:32] there seems to be a lot of areas that are
already 1-acre tracts,
[45:36] or some maybe smaller than that, you know,
that aren't—
[45:41] that are designated as 5-acre minimum.
[45:44] So like, how does that tie into— I think
that's a good question.
[45:48] Does that make what I'm asking?
[45:51] Yeah. Yeah. And so that's something that
we could address in the land use category
[45:56] description.
[45:58] So if it's something that we want, you
know, I would see like,
[46:02] I can see like coming down 31 right there,
that neighborhood, like,
[46:07] I guess I'm assuming that's Canterbury.
Yeah. Yeah.
[46:11] And so then does that Could become
nonconforming in this?
[46:15] Well, we, again, kind of in the
description, you could say, like,
[46:19] kind of the existing developments that are
less than 5 acres are appropriate as they
[46:24] are existing, but moving forward, we, you
know,
[46:27] we would want to see less of those or
limited or in certain areas.
[46:31] So we can work it into the description.
[46:34] And again, nothing in this is going to
change the zoning,
[46:37] so nothing's going to make it
nonconforming.
[46:40] But yeah, you don't You don't really want
to identify parcels and put them in a
[46:45] future land use category that they don't
fit.
[46:48] And so I think depending on where we end
up is going to depend on how we want to
[46:53] describe it.
[46:54] But then if we're not changing the zoning,
[46:56] then why would this say exists until
official zoning map is amended by the
[47:01] County Commission, which would—
[47:05] this agricultural preservation Oh, that's
something different.
[47:10] I'm just asking, right? I'm just—
[47:11] I'm just— the Agricultural Preservation
District.
[47:13] Somebody said that earlier, that it
wouldn't exist after we adopt this,
[47:18] but is that— are we removing the
agricultural— Well, I mean, Christy,
[47:23] you're up.
[47:24] Go ahead.
[47:24] I was asking.
[47:26] No, no, no, I'm just—
[47:27] I just want to clear up—
[47:28] I want to clear up some terminology, first
of all.
[47:30] Um, so when you're talking about the
growth plan,
[47:33] that's the one that you have in place that
is The cities and the county put
[47:37] together.
[47:37] Yep.
[47:37] Separate plan from this land use plan.
[47:40] You do need to consider the urban growth
boundaries,
[47:43] but some of the outcome of this plan could
be that you're asking the county and the
[47:48] cities to revisit that. Maybe there are
some areas that need to be expanded.
[47:53] Maybe there are areas that need to be
contracted.
[47:56] One, the terminology thing I want to
correct,
[47:58] I want to just make sure everybody
understands on the growth plan map,
[48:03] you have An urban growth boundary and you
have a planned growth area.
[48:07] This area around Collioca is a planned
growth area, right?
[48:11] That's a growth area that has been
identified to grow in the county,
[48:15] not that a city will be annexed into it.
[48:17] Yeah.
[48:18] So I just want to make sure you understand
the stuff that's around Columbia,
[48:22] Spring Hill, Mount Pleasant.
[48:23] Those are urban growth boundaries where at
that time those cities had projected to
[48:28] grow into.
[48:28] Gotcha.
[48:29] Counties can have areas where they say,
okay, this out here is rural,
[48:33] but if we're going to have some growth,
this is where we see it going.
[48:38] And that's where those planned growth
areas are.
[48:41] There's 3 on your— well, there's 4, even
though it says 5,
[48:45] because one of them is a PGA, but it's an
expansion of Columbia's UGB.
[48:50] Um, so that, that's kind of the—
[48:52] when you're looking at where you want the
growth to occur,
[48:56] Keep that in mind because you're planning
for the unincorporated area, right?
[49:01] And until it is annexed, it is
unincorporated.
[49:04] So having some development standards for
those areas,
[49:08] if and until they become part of the city,
is part of the discussion.
[49:12] And, um, so if the result of this says,
you know, maybe our PGAs are too big,
[49:17] we need to pull them back,
[49:19] that would be a recommendation going into
into possibly revisiting the growth plan.
[49:25] Gotcha.
[49:25] And it doesn't make— like Liz said,
[49:28] it doesn't make anything legally
nonconforming because these are
[49:31] nonconforming because these are
recommendations.
[49:32] So until the actual zoning on the map is
changed— and we likely would not.
[49:37] I mean, you could even create a zoning
district that's essentially like a—
[49:41] I think we called it legacy districts or
something—
[49:44] that recognizes that density without
making it legally nonconforming.
[49:49] conforming, even though the area around it
may be recommended for something
[49:53] different.
[49:54] Yeah, grandfathered.
[49:55] Removing that from an option is not
something that we're doing because
[50:00] I'm asking— removing whatever the ag
preservation is.
[50:03] No, I mean, if you all— if part of the
designation is rural,
[50:06] then the discussion is to what extent are
you recommending that it be rural?
[50:11] Right now, the AP district is a voluntary
district.
[50:14] So you all may want it designated as 1 to
5 on here,
[50:17] but people could go even further to 1 to
15 or whatever.
[50:20] So that should just be part of the larger
conversation of what that rural area looks
[50:25] like. But I just want to make sure you all
understood where those, those growth—
[50:29] there are county growth areas. And that's
what, that's what those are.
[50:33] I would just, you know, if somebody wants—
I just wanted to observe their property,
[50:37] that's their part to be able to do that.
Is that all y'all have anywhere?
[50:41] That's all I've got.
[50:42] Thank you, sir. Is that all you got, Sam?
That's all I got. All right.
[50:45] Let me just note the AP districts.
[50:47] I think 6 or 8 of those have come to the
County Commission since that's been
[50:51] enacted. So that's been— You'll have
several more. Yeah.
[50:54] So that's been a good thing that people
have been taking advantage of that here
[50:58] have been taking advantage of that here
over
[50:58] the past couple of months. So that's a
good thing. You're back.
[51:01] Okay.
[51:01] You're up.
[51:04] Yeah. So kind of when we're discussing
Coleoca or, you know, in any of these
[51:11] Coleoca or, you know, in any of these
areas,
[51:11] But this is a good example of if we're not
going to use the urban growth boundary
[51:19] and the growth boundary as kind of a guide
and we take that away,
[51:24] then you have kind of a mix of large
properties and then existing little
[51:31] subdivisions. But you can see it's a very
kind of consistent in terms of like
[51:37] there's little pockets of residential, but
most of the land is fairly large lot.
[51:45] Where that line gets drawn, that again,
that's,
[51:49] that's the hard part of do we have
anything like the urban growth boundary
[51:55] anything like the urban growth boundary
that we
[51:56] want to use to kind of establish that
line,
[52:00] or does it all just become one district
like we have it now?
[52:05] So that's again where I'm struggling of
how much land, or if, you know,
[52:11] should it be in the 1-acre or And where
does that boundary get established?
[52:18] So, I mean, that's kind of where we're—
and same thing with Mount Pleasant.
[52:25] When we look at Mount Pleasant, like,
pretty much—
[52:29] I'm sorry.
[52:31] Around the jurisdiction is very large
lots, you know, and so it would be,
[52:38] I think, difficult for me to go in and say
like, yes,
[52:43] that should be rural residential or that
should be ag without some
[52:49] direction from you all. What?
[52:51] Hit your mic there. You know,
[52:53] like what you're looking at is like a huge
That one on the right.
[52:58] Oh, like this thing?
[52:58] Yeah. I don't, I don't know what that
exact piece of property is,
[53:02] but I would guess it's— somebody here
might know.
[53:05] I'm guessing it's an old mine, which is
never going to be developed. Hopefully.
[53:10] And that's again where I need feedback
from you all,
[53:14] because when we do a land use plan for a
whole entire county,
[53:18] I can't look at every single parcel, you
know, in the county.
[53:22] That would take 7 years.
[53:24] And so if I'm looking at it a little bit
higher level,
[53:28] but I need you all to fact-check me.
[53:30] I've gotten a couple of texts so far. You
left Theta off the maps, what I was told.
[53:35] I left what off the map?
[53:37] Theta, T-H-E-T-A, northeast section. It
was sort of north.
[53:41] It's what? Northeast. Like right there
somewhere in there.
[53:46] Oh, this one?
[53:52] Lexi, your light's up. You're up.
[53:53] My only question is, from the plan that
was created 20-some years ago,
[53:59] is there any existing language or
determinations,
[54:02] or rather how they determined those
boundaries that we could even, like, work
[54:08] boundaries that we could even, like, work
from?
[54:08] So there is an adopted urban— Turn that
off.
[54:11] There is an adopted urban growth plan for
Murray County that's on file with the
[54:17] state that establishes these boundaries.
[54:20] And I believe there are kind of
descriptions in there of the different
[54:25] descriptions in there of the different
areas,
[54:26] but I haven't looked at it in detail to
know if it has that kind of background
[54:32] information of like, we're proposing to
have this boundary here because of XYZ.
[54:37] And so, I mean, we can look at that,
[54:40] but I'm guessing that it probably doesn't
go into that level of detail.
[54:45] Because I'm just curious on how— because
going from this to an absolute blank
[54:51] going from this to an absolute blank
slate,
[54:51] I get what you're saying. Like, how do you
determine that?
[54:56] And I'm just curious if there was any
verbiage logged from 20 years ago.
[55:01] I mean, it's 20 years ago on how that was
determined.
[55:05] And obviously a lot has changed since
then.
[55:08] But if there was some kind of framework on
what that looks like,
[55:13] I think that would be a great starting
place.
[55:16] Sam,
[55:18] is that all you
[55:23] had, Lexi?
[55:27] Yeah.
[55:27] All right, Sam, you're up.
[55:29] I want to let you get through your
presentation, and I've been holding
[55:33] presentation, and I've been holding
comments,
[55:33] but are we going to do this in a
systematic way at some point?
[55:36] Like, Go through each region? How are we
going to do this?
[55:39] So I'll hold fire, I guess, if—
[55:41] Yeah. So what I think makes the most sense
is we have 4 copies of the map.
[55:46] And I think if we could just sort of
gather and start looking at it and start,
[55:51] you know, just giving comments and putting
them on the map, I mean,
[55:56] that's probably going to be the most
helpful.
[55:59] If you all think that it's better to kind
of look at it all together and we can zoom
[56:05] in and, you know, look at certain areas,
we can do that too.
[56:09] But yeah, I mean, I was done with—
[56:12] I was about to turn it over to you guys to
work on the map.
[56:16] Is that all you got, Sam?
[56:17] Generally, I mean, we don't have to use
our imaginations a whole lot.
[56:22] Williamson County has been through this
for the last 30 years, and, you know,
[56:27] it'd be nice to ask someone, well,
[56:29] what happened when you Did 1 to 5 right
next to Leapers, for example, right?
[56:34] Like, we don't— there are some real-world
examples we can go to to see how things
[56:39] turn out. So, all right.
[56:41] But that hasn't— Williamson was only
adopted, what, a year or so ago?
[56:47] It's been several years?
[56:49] Okay.
[56:50] So there hasn't been a ton of time that
that's happened, but yeah,
[56:53] we can definitely use it as an example.
[56:58] Well, Christy, you can correct me if I'm
wrong,
[57:00] but a long time ago they did hike half the
county in 1:1 and half 1:5, correct?
[57:04] And then they went all 1:5 here lately.
[57:06] A big chunk of the, a big chunk of half of
the county was 1:5 for a long time.
[57:12] So '88, '88, maybe.
[57:13] It's actually a perfect example to see how
it's going to play out long-term.
[57:18] So, all right. Uh, Mr. Perryman, your
light's on.
[57:21] The only, I would echo what he just— I
know you're excited.
[57:25] I would echo what Sam just said.
[57:27] If there's examples out there to look at,
I think we have to.
[57:31] My only comment on the current map is it's
very striking that it's all green,
[57:36] and that is of concern.
[57:37] If we have urban growth boundaries that
exist with the state,
[57:41] I think we have to recognize those and
consider those in some way.
[57:45] When people speak of property values,
[57:47] I do think the closer you live to the The
cities.
[57:51] If you start making folks have to live in
large chunks of land,
[57:54] you do decrease property value.
[57:56] If I live way out in the nether regions of
the county, you may not.
[58:01] I look at the 431 corridor between 65 and
431 on the map that we were given today,
[58:06] and I don't see that ever remaining green.
[58:08] My fear is this: if we don't examine the
county and designate at least some places
[58:14] that we think growth can occur,
[58:16] The 3 cities will just push outward and
they push outward in big chunks.
[58:20] And I think the biggest thing I hear from
people all the time is the cities are
[58:25] doing too much. When they take over, this
room has little control of what happens.
[58:30] Yeah.
[58:30] And if we don't provide some places in the
county and say,
[58:34] we see that life is happening in these
areas and at Canterbury, for example,
[58:38] that was mentioned earlier,
[58:39] or out on John Sharp Road where we're
building a lot of houses,
[58:43] That has become a county residential area
that if we don't acknowledge that those
[58:48] places exist and we just leave them as
green,
[58:50] then the cities very quickly come out and
go, let us have that.
[58:54] And then it's 6 units per acre or it's
townhomes going straight up that are 3
[58:58] stories. So my concern would just be
somewhere between an overcomplicated map
[59:02] somewhere between an overcomplicated map
and
[59:03] the simplistic map. We have to,
[59:04] we have to say somewhere in Murray County
there can be something smaller than 5
[59:09] acres, because the reality is in the next
20 years it's going to be.
[59:13] And is it that the county controls that
and has a say in it,
[59:16] or is it that the cities do?
[59:18] And I think everyone in this room would
much rather see the regional planning have
[59:22] some say in that than the cities. And
that's, that's just my take at this map.
[59:27] How we go about that and what we call
growth areas, I don't know.
[59:30] I think that's a good point. But I think
we have to look a little deeper than that.
[59:35] All right, thanks, sir.
[59:36] I don't see any other lights, so how do
you want to proceed then? What is it?
[59:41] You want us to come down here and get on
the maps,
[59:43] or you want somebody to get up there and
point?
[59:46] I don't want anybody drawing on my walls
up here, but, you know,
[59:50] if you want to point out something on the
map and then we can make markings on the
[59:54] paper map or whatever, how do you want to
do this?
[59:57] Sorry, I was trying to open the growth
boundary plan,
[1:00:02] and it's Locking up my computer.
[1:00:04] I mean, I think it's probably, you know,
because we don't have a ton of, you know,
[1:00:11] our board's not too big today.
[1:00:14] So if we could break up into kind of 2
groups or 3 groups and just kind of look
[1:00:20] groups or 3 groups and just kind of look
at
[1:00:20] this and look at the areas, and I can have
my laptop,
[1:00:25] and if anybody wants to pull up a certain
area, I'm happy to do that.
[1:00:32] So what do you want, somebody on like,
that's north side of the county,
[1:00:35] this is south side of the county, or—
[1:00:36] Yeah. And then you pick what side you want
to be on? Yeah.
[1:00:39] Okay. And then for the public,
[1:00:41] we've got that map right there on that
table if y'all wish to put your input on
[1:00:47] that. Dustin, I'm sorry. Have you got to
go? Well, maybe.
[1:00:51] I don't want to sit here and watch y'all
work or whatever, but I mean,
[1:00:55] and it's Come on up. I'll allow it. Sure,
come on, come on up. I'm ready to leave.
[1:01:01] Excuse me, I just have one question. Well,
hang on.
[1:01:04] I'm gonna let him speak and then we'll get
to you. All right, well, go ahead.
[1:01:10] Okay, go ahead. I'm all over this county
surveying. It looks like it's all
[1:01:15] surveying. It looks like it's all
farmland.
[1:01:15] You're not— it's not all farmland.
[1:01:18] You got little houses everywhere,
thousands of houses and acres Lots.
[1:01:22] And if you make these people— brother and
sister, sister got an acre,
[1:01:27] brother got an acre, this brother now you
have to get 5 acres—
[1:01:31] what you're going to be doing is what
you're trying to do.
[1:01:35] I'm going to just tell you, you're trying
to run everybody out of the country,
[1:01:41] get them in town. And I hate to say it,
[1:01:43] but it looks like something you see back
in Nazi Germany.
[1:01:47] You want to force a people Well, hold on,
we're not going—
[1:01:51] we're not going to have a spar. This is
not a sparring session. Okay, thank you.
[1:01:57] All right, okay, all right. Dustin, you,
uh, state your name and your district.
[1:02:02] Yeah, I mean, that's ridiculous to say
Nazi Germany. Yeah, well, let's not
[1:02:07] Nazi Germany. Yeah, well, let's not
debate.
[1:02:07] Let's, let's not. And you make your living
as a surveyor, so obviously every day,
[1:02:13] Dustin, Parcel is more money in your
pocket.
[1:02:16] Dustin.
[1:02:17] And so that's— I mean, okay. And so to say
that we're trying to create an option—
[1:02:21] Dustin.
[1:02:21] We're trying to preserve farm—
[1:02:23] Dustin.
[1:02:24] I'm not addressing the group here. I know,
but I'm— this is not a debate.
[1:02:28] No, I'm not. I'm just saying this is not a
debate for you all. I apologize.
[1:02:33] I apologize. All right, just state your
name and your district, please.
[1:02:38] Dustin Kittle, District 9. Or District 6,
actually.
[1:02:41] I was speaking on behalf of District 9
last night. I'll, I'll address that last.
[1:02:47] I'll start off by saying one of the things
that I think we need to be careful about
[1:02:52] and we need to evaluate on the front end
is development that would be around the
[1:02:57] Duck River or any of the tributaries.
[1:03:00] That creates obviously potential
contamination, environmental issues.
[1:03:04] And I'm not saying that there can't be any
development, but as a lot of you know,
[1:03:10] there was an attempt to develop at the one
of the former Monsanto properties,
[1:03:15] which was right on top of the Duck. They
wanted to put 1,300 houses.
[1:03:19] That's just an example of something that I
think kind of on the front end that we
[1:03:24] need to be mindful of because of the fact,
again,
[1:03:28] we're in this alleged water crisis and
we're so dependent on the Duck River that
[1:03:33] we're so dependent on the Duck River that
I
[1:03:33] think that we need to take that into
account.
[1:03:36] And I would say the same thing as far as
with soils and things things like that.
[1:03:41] As I think Sam had mentioned, there is a
lot of mining land that's in this county,
[1:03:46] and there is some former Monsanto land,
[1:03:49] and there's some ground that's not
suitable for development.
[1:03:53] And so I think that that needs to be taken
into account.
[1:03:57] And then also, as opposed to maybe just
drawing kind of the random circles, like,
[1:04:02] I think if we looked at the factors, like,
for example,
[1:04:05] And I'll take the one that we looked at
last night that was in Cullioca.
[1:04:10] That road over there is about as wide as
this podium.
[1:04:14] And so it's not really suitable to where
you could put a subdivision.
[1:04:18] And so I think that that's one of the
other things that we need to look at.
[1:04:23] I mean, we have, you know, I'll take Snow
Creek Road that's beside me.
[1:04:28] It's a state road. It's a, it's a good
road. It's a wide road.
[1:04:32] And it could handle more traffic than,
say, East Sheepneck Road.
[1:04:36] And so I think that that's something that
we need to take into account as well.
[1:04:41] The last thing I would say is like, and I
know this couldn't be done by one person,
[1:04:46] but I do think we need to kind of do an
audit of what we've got now as far as the
[1:04:52] land's concerned. What do we have now
that's in agriculture, you know,
[1:04:56] across the board? I mean,
[1:04:58] that's something you probably could run
some kind of aerial image through,
[1:05:03] like AI even. And be able to get a good
idea of what is our baseline and where are
[1:05:08] we starting from on all of this. And I
think that that's important.
[1:05:13] So I think that if we outline some of
these factors,
[1:05:16] factors that ultimately would come into
play when it goes before a planning
[1:05:21] commission, as far as like how far is this
area away from emergency services and
[1:05:26] things like that, I think that all of
those things.
[1:05:29] These zones would kind of create
themselves off of that,
[1:05:33] and there's probably some way that
somebody that's smarter than I could punch
[1:05:38] somebody that's smarter than I could punch
all of
[1:05:39] that in and give you an exact which
parcels meet that definition and which
[1:05:43] parcels meet that definition and which
ones
[1:05:44] don't. Thank you. Okay, that said, um, I
guess Sam— yeah, you're like, go ahead,
[1:05:49] Sam. One more. That brought up some great
questions for me, actually.
[1:05:53] I know we're going to get to cost of
community services at some point,
[1:05:58] but it's hard for me to sort of say, well,
[1:06:01] this zone needs to be here and this zone
needs to be there without sort of knowing
[1:06:06] the total totality of it, right?
[1:06:08] Like, if we're going to build a lot more
houses, what will it cost the community?
[1:06:14] You know, those kinds of questions. I
guess for now we just put our vision down.
[1:06:19] I was just going to say, are we just
trying to, like,
[1:06:22] generally This area generally today?
[1:06:25] Yeah, I mean, I'm not expecting you to say
this lot yes, this lot no,
[1:06:30] but I think what would be helpful is to
kind of understand if you all think that
[1:06:36] it's appropriate to again sort of use
that,
[1:06:39] use the data of the land in terms of lot
size,
[1:06:43] in terms of undevelopable prime farmland.
[1:06:46] We could look again at that data in the
land and try and make a line based on
[1:06:52] land and try and make a line based on
that.
[1:06:52] Or do we like the idea of kind of like a
fuzzy 1-mile, 3-mile, 5-mile buffer?
[1:06:58] You know, kind of what makes sense in
these different areas?
[1:07:02] That kind of, you know,
[1:07:04] if I have more of a direction of what you
all think makes the most sense,
[1:07:10] that would help. And then the other thing
is, Yes,
[1:07:14] so we have Tischler Weiss doing the
financial analysis.
[1:07:18] They have gotten started on that, but
their next thing is,
[1:07:22] is they're going to take the future land
use map that we give them and run an
[1:07:28] analysis on kind of the cost of services
and the cost of everything based on what
[1:07:34] we're proposing. And so generally, we
either give them 2 different, like,
[1:07:40] development scenarios, or we'd give them
sort of like the existing and the
[1:07:45] sort of like the existing and the
proposed.
[1:07:46] Right.
[1:07:47] So if there's kind of like if we almost
wanted to get rid of the orange but have,
[1:07:53] you know, the yellow kind of encompass the
yellow and the orange,
[1:07:58] so we'd have a lot more 1-acre parcels,
you know,
[1:08:02] have them do the analysis kind of on that
sort of scenario versus this scenario,
[1:08:08] you know, we can do that.
[1:08:10] If there's kind of, again,
[1:08:12] sort of a couple different options of what
you all think makes sense.
[1:08:17] We don't have to have all the answers
today.
[1:08:20] All right, Commissioner Strahan, your
light was on. Thank you, Chair.
[1:08:25] I'm a bit overwhelmed with this whole
thing. I don't know— I'll speak for
[1:08:31] thing. I don't know— I'll speak for
myself.
[1:08:31] I don't know all the county roads.
[1:08:34] I don't know the areas where all the
subdivisions are.
[1:08:38] I've lived here, what, 30 years? Murray
County is huge.
[1:08:42] I think it's a bad idea for us to split up
and 2 or 3 go do Culebra,
[1:08:47] 2 or 3 go do something else, and a couple
of us do Columbia.
[1:08:52] I think collectively we may be able to do
this,
[1:08:56] but I think we need to concentrate on
maybe on a particular area first.
[1:09:01] Learn how we work this process, understand
the map,
[1:09:05] and then migrate out into some of the
other areas rather than somebody—
[1:09:10] 2 guys come do Columbia, 2 people do Santa
Fe,
[1:09:14] and then we don't even have the same
vocabulary,
[1:09:18] nor do we have the same experiences in
those particular areas.
[1:09:22] You can give me an area and I wouldn't
know what to do with it.
[1:09:27] I'm a county commissioner. I'm not a
zoning planner.
[1:09:31] I think that's actually a good idea
because out of this room you've got a
[1:09:37] because out of this room you've got a
piece of
[1:09:37] everything and you can ask a question and
somebody that's from Coleo can say yes,
[1:09:43] somebody that's from Theda can say that.
So perhaps we should just use the big map.
[1:09:50] We can do that.
[1:09:50] And then, you know, if we want to
designate somebody to write or you're
[1:09:55] designate somebody to write or you're
going to
[1:09:56] take notes, I guess you don't have to have
anything written on these maps.
[1:10:01] But let me remind everybody too, if I
could please, and for my sake,
[1:10:06] There's not such a thing as a dumb
question.
[1:10:09] This group is not a planning commission.
[1:10:12] This group does not have all the
experience in the world to put this thing
[1:10:17] experience in the world to put this thing
together.
[1:10:17] This group represents those people out
there, period, in some form,
[1:10:22] whether it be educational or whether it be
political or whatever else.
[1:10:27] Turn your light on. You got to— Tell us,
like, hey, 412 to— north of 412,
[1:10:32] east of 31.
[1:10:33] Bingo.
[1:10:33] I mean, yeah, and then we could just
start, and then south of 412 to 50,
[1:10:38] and then 50 to 31, and then 31 to Mount
Pleasant.
[1:10:41] And then maybe, maybe that makes the most
sense.
[1:10:45] You know, if we just kind of zoom in and—
yeah,
[1:10:48] I can draw polygons on here that again
sort of just establish the
[1:10:53] beginning conversation.
[1:10:55] Who knows? I mean, I think it would
probably make the most sense to start in
[1:11:00] probably make the most sense to start in
the
[1:11:00] north side where probably most of the
growth would be or has been.
[1:11:04] So 31, 65, northeast side.
[1:11:06] Start with the northeast, then go
southeast, then go southwest, and then
[1:11:10] southeast, then go southwest, and then
northwest.
[1:11:11] Like coming down 431 from June Lake's
going to grow in the next 20 years. Okay.
[1:11:16] I've actually had a county commissioner
that's asked to speak,
[1:11:20] so I'm going to let Commissioner Sumner
come on up to the podium.
[1:11:24] Identify yourself for the record and then—
Uh,
[1:11:27] at like 10:30 at night the way this is
going, so that's kind of— that's,
[1:11:31] that's kind of what I'm— Scott asked and
so I'll let him.
[1:11:35] That's kind of what I'm hitting at here.
Uh, Scott Sumner, District 5.
[1:11:39] Uh, I think Mr. Kittle brought up some
great points about, uh,
[1:11:43] potentially looking at criteria.
[1:11:45] Uh, I think y'all have had some great
points too, Mr. Perryman and Mr. Kennedy.
[1:11:50] About the criteria that you should look at
for these types of things.
[1:11:55] And maybe you should give the criteria to
the consultant instead of you guys, like,
[1:12:00] pinpointing, you know, on a map where you
think things should go.
[1:12:04] But give the consultant some criteria, you
know,
[1:12:07] some guidelines about what you want to
see.
[1:12:10] Like, like, you've got collector roads,
you've got arterial roads, you've got the—
[1:12:15] Inter—
[1:12:16] I-65, you've got the Duck River You got
the tributaries of the Duck River, uh,
[1:12:21] and you— I mean, this county has,
[1:12:23] has certain types of road classifications
too where you can kind of delineate what
[1:12:29] those road links are potentially too using
GIS.
[1:12:32] So what I would suggest you guys do is, I
mean, to save you some time tonight,
[1:12:37] is to give the consultant some criteria,
take it back,
[1:12:41] and they can take it back and create a
map.
[1:12:44] Okay.
[1:12:45] Potentially a map, a better map than
what's here tonight,
[1:12:48] something that's more conducive to what
your thoughts are.
[1:12:51] But take that back and instead of having
to go through it, you know,
[1:12:54] section at a time tonight,
[1:12:56] just have that done back at her office
once you guys give her the criteria.
[1:12:59] That's my suggestion. Or you're going to
be here kind of all night.
[1:13:03] Well, I don't disagree with that.
[1:13:05] But what I was going to say also is that,
you know,
[1:13:07] as much as I hate saying the word more
meetings,
[1:13:10] we could do a quadrant tonight and then we
don't have to have the consultant I think
[1:13:14] we're going to have to do another quadrant
here.
[1:13:17] We can do— have another meeting and do
another quadrant another night,
[1:13:21] another quadrant another night.
[1:13:22] I do like what he says,
[1:13:23] but what I would say to that is that we've
already collected this data.
[1:13:27] The consultant's been given all this
stuff, and this is the map we got, you
[1:13:31] stuff, and this is the map we got, you
know,
[1:13:31] based on from the public input, because
this is—
[1:13:34] this was for the public and all that, and
this is—
[1:13:36] this is the map that came out with. So I
don't know.
[1:13:39] I thought it seems like we've already set
the criteria, and—
[1:13:42] and I guess we can try to do it again, but
whatever this—
[1:13:45] the will of this committee is and— and— I
think that's a good point.
[1:13:49] Y'all tell me that. You got a couple
options.
[1:13:51] Like I said, we can do what Scott said,
give criteria to the consultant,
[1:13:55] or we can sit here and do the northeast
quadrant of the county and then come back
[1:13:59] again later without her here.
[1:14:01] We don't have to have her have to— you
know, we can do the southeast quadrant.
[1:14:05] What's the will of the committee?
[1:14:07] Uh, uh, Sam— or no, I'm sorry, Eric
Perryman, you were first. Go ahead.
[1:14:10] A question first and then, and then just a
comment.
[1:14:13] The map That you had that you said you
showed last week,
[1:14:16] that you said you went too far on.
[1:14:18] How many people were at Battle Creek High
School that determined you went too far
[1:14:22] with that map?
[1:14:23] Like 10.
[1:14:26] So out of about 120,000 people, 10.
[1:14:28] So, so my question would be this,
[1:14:30] somewhere between the map that we were
given today—
[1:14:33] I'm not saying I love that map that you
That you said you went too far on,
[1:14:38] but somewhere between that map, which is
what you guys are paid to develop,
[1:14:42] and the map we were given today, there has
to be a happy medium somewhere.
[1:14:47] Um, I would love to have access to that
map and time to look at it,
[1:14:51] and then I would love for us to have
criteria so that when we talk,
[1:14:55] we're not just walking up here uninformed
and saying, hey, I, you know,
[1:15:00] I've been out here, this is really
changing, and this— we need—
[1:15:04] Yeah.
[1:15:04] I think we need more information and more
time as a group to have some criteria to
[1:15:09] look at what we were talking about.
[1:15:11] But I would love to have that map, whether
I agree with it or not,
[1:15:15] because that is what you guys are paid to
develop.
[1:15:18] And somewhere between that and then where
we are now,
[1:15:21] there has to be somewhere that we, that we
know we, we have to land.
[1:15:26] So that, that would be my only
recommendation.
[1:15:28] I think we need some,
[1:15:30] some clear guidelines on what we're doing
before we start changing anything on
[1:15:34] anybody's All right, Sam, your light's on,
sir. I like both ideas.
[1:15:38] I do think it would be helpful just to go
through one block together, just to—
[1:15:43] I want to hear what other people's
questions are,
[1:15:46] kind of go through the process of
evaluating one section just to learn how
[1:15:50] evaluating one section just to learn how
you would
[1:15:51] look at it. All right, well, let me ask
you this.
[1:15:54] Is the northeast the best block for that?
[1:15:56] Because it's already pretty much a city,
[1:15:59] or do we want to go real more rural with
it? Y'all pick one.
[1:16:02] I think that corridor out there, that 431
corridor in the northeast,
[1:16:06] is a good place to start. Okay, you do
want to start with that one. Okay.
[1:16:11] Because you've got Firefly out there,
[1:16:13] you have things that are happening that
don't match it already.
[1:16:17] So how do we deal with things that are—
okay, that already don't match?
[1:16:21] All right, let's proceed then. Go ahead,
Sam.
[1:16:24] My first thought in my head is like, well,
yeah, let them have it.
[1:16:28] It's already developed, so just let it go.
[1:16:30] But I know farmers in that green island
who are gonna, you know,
[1:16:34] people who are gonna want to leave it
green, right?
[1:16:37] So that's my first conundrum, right?
[1:16:39] So just, just there you go, throw that out
there.
[1:16:42] So this is again the, the map from last
week, and I will email all the maps,
[1:16:49] and I could do further, you know, I'll get
you guys all that.
[1:16:55] So a lot of that area is within Spring
Hill and Columbia's urban growth boundary.
[1:17:02] And it— I'm not sure if this line, like,
follows—
[1:17:07] it doesn't look like it follows a road,
but it might.
[1:17:11] But I mean, it kind of establishes a
cutoff point.
[1:17:16] And so maybe that's a good place to start
of, like,
[1:17:21] Is this northern area appropriate for
1-acre lots?
[1:17:25] Again, we can kind of ignore the orange.
[1:17:29] Turn your light on. So, Sam, turn your
light on.
[1:17:33] I would— that would be my thought, would
be generally speaking.
[1:17:37] Now we can dive into each little property,
but I mean,
[1:17:42] you can see west of Clara Mathis there,
you know, is already all neighborhoods.
[1:17:48] And so, you know, and again, you know,
[1:17:51] I think that what we've talked about
multiple times is the city just start
[1:17:56] multiple times is the city just start
annexing
[1:17:57] these places. And so if you don't give
anybody room to develop,
[1:18:02] then you are going to open that up for
more annexation, which I— You know,
[1:18:08] whatever everybody wants is gonna— I mean,
that's just what they're going to do.
[1:18:14] Um, so I, I, I understand what you're
saying, Sam.
[1:18:18] I think like, and maybe you go through
some of that and say, well, these, you
[1:18:24] some of that and say, well, these, you
know,
[1:18:24] east of 431s, you know what I mean?
[1:18:28] I don't know.
[1:18:28] I don't know. I'm just giving, giving
ideas.
[1:18:31] Reasonable me.
[1:18:33] Debbie, hang on. We gotta— we can't have
too many lights on at once.
[1:18:37] Turn your light on. We'll call on you.
Deborah, go ahead.
[1:18:42] I'm just asking— sorry,
[1:18:43] just asking her to zoom in on that if
that's where we're focusing.
[1:18:48] So thank you.
[1:18:49] Yeah, I mean, and this is a good kind of
place to just sort of discuss
[1:18:57] theoretically. You know, we have the
cities in close proximity.
[1:19:04] We have a lot of big lot land. Mixed with
existing developments.
[1:19:11] And so, you know, all of this area kind of
west of 65, you know,
[1:19:19] does it— does it make sense to you all to
show that as kind of that
[1:19:26] 1-acre smaller, you know, still large lot
but smaller lot development?
[1:19:34] Or to try and kind of put all of these
larger lots in sort of that
[1:19:42] holding of 5-acre minimums.
[1:19:45] Eric, what's the school capacity up there?
[1:19:47] You're lower on the north side than you
are anywhere,
[1:19:51] and as we've started this year,
[1:19:53] the only place we've truly seen growth has
been up there.
[1:19:57] Um, we've actually seen some decreasing
numbers across the rest of the county,
[1:20:03] but in that section, Bear Creek 31,
[1:20:05] that corridor is the only place that we've
seen true growth in numbers.
[1:20:10] And it's elementary growth, middle school
and elementary growth.
[1:20:14] So it's young growth. Okay. Anybody else?
Lots of thoughts.
[1:20:18] Um, Again, I'm back on the fiscal thing,
[1:20:21] but I think that was a large part of why
Williamson County went on and did 1 to 5
[1:20:26] across the board was because of fiscal
concerns.
[1:20:30] So we may say we want more houses
somewhere and then figure out we can't
[1:20:35] somewhere and then figure out we can't
afford it
[1:20:35] later. But, um, the Duck River Yanalli
Wildlife Area is at the southeast part of
[1:20:41] that quadrant, right? I would think we
would want buffer, you know.
[1:20:45] Yeah, like all of this down.
[1:20:47] But on that, okay, it is.
[1:20:49] And I had one more thought,
[1:20:51] but I'll leave it alone until I come up
with it.
[1:20:55] Yeah, so it seems like with the proposed
map, you know,
[1:21:01] this area is kind of in question, and
then, you know,
[1:21:07] this sort of central area feel like the
two kind of maybe they
[1:21:13] should be yellow.
[1:21:16] That central area right there, just from a
busing,
[1:21:19] not traveling those roads with buses.
[1:21:22] Um, Greens Mill and the development off of
Greens Mill,
[1:21:25] that's the city has pushed all the way to
Double Branch.
[1:21:29] Double Branch is not very far from Big Oak
Lake.
[1:21:32] I mean, it looks like a large area there.
John Sharp's in that area.
[1:21:37] Um, that's an area that, that we're seeing
growth in anyway.
[1:21:41] Uh, if you were looking at targeted areas
where that's— that, that green area is—
[1:21:47] that, that yellow is pushing out into it.
[1:21:50] So, so I see that from what we're dealing
with is that those developments are
[1:21:55] pushing in that way.
[1:21:56] Um, and I don't know how we go through
every section of the, the map,
[1:22:01] but that section I do—
[1:22:02] I do think that yellow probably encroaches
further into that center section than
[1:22:08] than it's showing right there. Anybody
else?
[1:22:11] One simple question, and Sam brought this
up.
[1:22:14] Is there a way, whether it's Yanalli— the
state owns thousands of acres,
[1:22:19] controls thousands of acres out of 50.
[1:22:22] Well, I don't know that we really need to
waste time coloring those one way or the
[1:22:27] other. I don't know that they're up for
development.
[1:22:31] Uh, and that's in that north, that
corridor, that northeast corridor,
[1:22:35] and then probably your central corridor
down toward Culeoaka.
[1:22:40] They're not really— it's thousands of
acres out there.
[1:22:43] Same thing, maybe out towards Monsanto
with some of that land.
[1:22:48] It's really not up for development at all.
[1:22:50] So it doesn't really matter what color it
is.
[1:22:53] I don't know if there's a way to highlight
it a different color.
[1:22:58] No, my mind was though,
[1:22:59] you might have less dense stuff as you get
closer to the river. Yeah. Anybody else?
[1:23:05] Hit your light so we can— y'all, I know.
Okay.
[1:23:08] We just, we can only have 3 mics on at a
time and we gotta be able to record the
[1:23:14] meeting and let the public hear.
[1:23:16] So you gotta give me time to get your mic
turned on. I gotcha.
[1:23:20] Uh, I think it would be good to see some
of those, you know,
[1:23:24] areas on the map that are just, you know,
like some,
[1:23:28] some of this older mined land that nobody
wants to see developed.
[1:23:32] I mean, You know, I know there's been
questions of it since I've been here for
[1:23:38] questions of it since I've been here for
20
[1:23:38] years. You know, there's always somebody
wanting to bring 1,000 homes to Monsanto
[1:23:43] or, you know, something going on at Arrow
Lake.
[1:23:47] You know, if, if some of that was notated
on this future land use to like, hey,
[1:23:52] we don't— I don't know that there's a
classification that you want to put on it
[1:23:57] classification that you want to put on it
or
[1:23:58] what, but like, you know,
[1:23:59] areas that just in general shouldn't be or
don't need to be developed.
[1:24:04] I mean, does that make sense?
[1:24:06] And like Yanalli, I mean, it's, you know,
it's a huge area.
[1:24:10] You haven't spoke all night. Go for it.
[1:24:13] So I had the same thought that That Sam
just so eloquently said.
[1:24:17] We've got these properties, and it's been
mentioned here tonight,
[1:24:22] the large development on the Monsanto
property,
[1:24:25] that I live out that way and know a lot of
people out that way.
[1:24:29] They don't want that out in Santa Fe.
[1:24:32] And again, I don't know what that looks
like,
[1:24:35] but I would like to see somehow those
properties maybe have their own
[1:24:39] properties maybe have their own
designation to
[1:24:40] where we don't get ourselves in a
situation where we've got big money coming
[1:24:46] situation where we've got big money coming
at us
[1:24:46] hot. And as some of you know, there's,
there's,
[1:24:49] there's a long story with some of these
properties that cost the county money
[1:24:54] perpetually, and we just weren't prepared
when these people came down the road.
[1:25:00] Anybody else? Do what? Oh, uh, Sam, is
that you? Is that your light?
[1:25:05] Sorry, I got This is more of a process
question, again, kind of similar to UGB's,
[1:25:10] but we keep talking about how we should
leave areas for development to stop city
[1:25:16] annexation. And I get the concept and I
generally believe it,
[1:25:20] but there's another part of me that's
like,
[1:25:23] we need to vision this county how we
actually want it.
[1:25:26] Don't make space for developers if we
don't want them there,
[1:25:30] and then go get state law changed.
[1:25:33] Like, and I don't know So I guess from a
planning perspective,
[1:25:37] I think we paint the vision how we want it
and then try to make it happen instead of
[1:25:43] leaving space for development that we
don't actually want or can afford.
[1:25:48] So, all right, Dustin, you raised your
hand.
[1:25:51] I'm going to allow it because, I mean,
[1:25:53] I think this is the kind of meeting that
the public wanted earlier.
[1:25:58] And so, um, talking about that there's a
lot more development out there,
[1:26:03] not all that development out there that's
going on is legal either.
[1:26:07] It didn't— a lot of that didn't go before
the Planning Commission and should have.
[1:26:13] So I don't want, like,
[1:26:15] that all to get lumped in as being growth
until we absolutely know that all of that
[1:26:20] was done properly, which kind of brings to
the next point, which is—
[1:26:25] and this echoing what Sam just said— I
think it's a loser argument to say, hey,
[1:26:30] we've got to make room for developers or
the city is going to annex.
[1:26:35] I mean, that's I said, let's figure out
what do we want the county to be.
[1:26:40] And quite honestly, we should have been
fighting these annexations.
[1:26:45] I mean, and we should be going forward.
[1:26:47] And I mean, you look at the one in Mount
Pleasant that was stopped last year,
[1:26:53] that should have been happening over and
over again.
[1:26:56] And we wouldn't be in this position.
[1:26:59] But—
[1:27:01] I don't think that it's the right move to
say that we're going to—
[1:27:05] just because we're afraid that the city is
going to do something wrong,
[1:27:10] that we're going to try to fill that void
so that we can control that process.
[1:27:15] I think that's the wrong way to look at
it.
[1:27:18] I think we need to figure out what is the
collective vision for everybody that lives
[1:27:24] here, and whatever that is,
[1:27:26] let's go towards that without trying to
worry about what everybody else is doing.
[1:27:32] And then let's try to fight off all these
other people that are infringing on how we
[1:27:37] want the vision to be. And that is very
doable if we'll just do it.
[1:27:42] And the last thing is, I think we need
some maps that have the infrastructure,
[1:27:47] because I was thinking Christy liked the
infrastructure trigger before it would go
[1:27:53] before Planning Commission.
[1:27:55] So if we had a map that showed where all
the existing water lines and electrical
[1:28:00] service already was.
[1:28:02] And I know that we probably could get that
for the water lines,
[1:28:06] but I think that's like really important
because there's some areas that already
[1:28:11] because there's some areas that already
has
[1:28:12] the infrastructure in place that they
could absorb a development.
[1:28:16] And then there's some to where you would
have to add infrastructure.
[1:28:21] Well, if they have to add infrastructure,
[1:28:24] that's a trigger to where it would at
least go back before the County Planning
[1:28:29] Commission so that we have a say-so in it.
So.
[1:28:32] So that's like another one of those
factors as far as an overlay that could be
[1:28:37] factors as far as an overlay that could be
put
[1:28:38] on one of these maps to show where is our
existing infrastructure now where it
[1:28:43] wouldn't have to be added. And that's it.
[1:28:46] And I'll let y'all fight over the rest of
it.
[1:28:49] Theresa, did you want to say something?
[1:28:52] I just want to echo Dustin's comments on
annexation.
[1:28:55] There is clear— and he can speak to this
obviously better than I can,
[1:29:00] but there's Clear precedent that if cities
are annexing for the sole purpose of tax
[1:29:05] revenue, it's not— it will not stand up.
[1:29:08] It has to be challenged, but it won't
stand up.
[1:29:11] They can annex to improve services like
water.
[1:29:15] Well, that's obviously not going to be a
reason when the City of Columbia has
[1:29:20] declared an existential water crisis. So
there's really no basis for annexation.
[1:29:25] We should create the vision we want for
this county. Diversified zoning is an
[1:29:31] this county. Diversified zoning is an
idea.
[1:29:31] 15 acres next to the Duck River, 10 acres,
5 acres, 1 acre— is that difficult?
[1:29:36] Yes, that's not easy, but it brings
intuition to what we're trying to achieve,
[1:29:42] the vision we have for the county. And
lastly, I will just say data.
[1:29:46] We can't make any of these decisions
without data.
[1:29:50] None of these decisions are— we need to
know the roads, the infrastructure.
[1:29:55] We need to know the economic impact.
Subdivisions cost more money.
[1:29:59] Subdivisions suck money out of the county.
[1:30:02] Farmland puts money back into the economy.
[1:30:05] Thank you.
[1:30:06] We need to know these things. We cannot
make these decisions without data.
[1:30:11] So I just offer that up as things to think
about. Thank you.
[1:30:15] Well, all right, I'm going to allow it.
Chris, come on up. He was first.
[1:30:19] Chris was first. Real quick, just, uh,
Chris Grambling, District 9.
[1:30:24] I'm text— I've been talking with Pater all
day and texting with him.
[1:30:28] He, he agrees with this, that we need
data,
[1:30:31] we need to be working from the updated
maps, and I know a lot of people respect
[1:30:36] maps, and I know a lot of people respect
him,
[1:30:36] so I just wanted to pass his voice on
here. Thank you.
[1:30:39] Thank you for the second chance here.
[1:30:42] Some things on the maps that I did want to
address,
[1:30:45] because geography is very important here
in Murray County.
[1:30:49] If you are over here on the I-65 side and
you go that direction off to the east,
[1:30:54] you've got almost solid rock all the way
over there to Lewisburg.
[1:30:58] Okay, it is extremely difficult to build,
dig water lines, do anything over there.
[1:31:03] It limits what you're going to be able to
do.
[1:31:06] When you come over the other direction and
go up Highway 50, that was Monsanto land.
[1:31:11] There's a map I gave you guys that you can
look at and follow where all the
[1:31:16] limestone is, and it has the detail of
where those phosphate mines were.
[1:31:20] Those areas— But not to be in buildings.
[1:31:23] Like we've mentioned before,
[1:31:25] are probably not suitable for any kind of
Real good development.
[1:31:29] I— when I'm looking at land with people,
[1:31:31] I avoid those spots because I know it's
going to be a problem.
[1:31:35] When you go up towards Santa Fe, it's
hills.
[1:31:38] Now, you're not going to have a developer
come into the area and go up those hills
[1:31:43] and try to put in 30, 40 homes.
[1:31:45] At best, you're going to get one house on
maybe 5 to 10 acres. At best.
[1:31:50] You might be able to squeeze in a smaller
lot down in the lower section or
[1:31:54] something, but it is going to be very
difficult.
[1:31:57] So I really want you guys to be thinking
about the geography with this plan because
[1:32:03] it does factor in significantly.
Floodplains, I think, need a buffer.
[1:32:07] You need to have some sort of a buffer to
protect them.
[1:32:10] I completely agree with the Duck River
comments.
[1:32:13] It is one of our— it's our most important
resource that we have right here,
[1:32:18] the water. So we need to protect that and
the water sources.
[1:32:22] I don't think you do a lot minimum around
those, though. I think you do a distance.
[1:32:27] You keep people a certain distance away,
[1:32:30] and then you allow the configuration of
the lots to kind of happen the way that
[1:32:35] the lots to kind of happen the way that
they
[1:32:35] can, with all respect to the— excuse me—
the natural geography of it.
[1:32:39] The other thing is, I don't know how much
you guys are aware of septic and soil
[1:32:44] testing and those kind of things,
[1:32:46] but that area over to the east is almost
unperkable in a lot of those spots.
[1:32:51] So you'll have to have city sewer in order
to create development,
[1:32:55] or something like a step system, which
we're not really wanting to do here. Okay?
[1:33:00] So we're avoiding the step systems, but
over here on this side,
[1:33:04] you're not going to be able to get a lot
of septic systems in.
[1:33:08] So at the very minimum, you've got to have
a 1-acre lot for a septic system.
[1:33:13] If you expand that out,
[1:33:15] you're going to naturally end up with a
larger lot in order to find a suitable
[1:33:20] septic area. So there's a ton of factors
in there.
[1:33:23] If at any time anybody needs to talk to me
about it,
[1:33:26] my phone number's on that packet I sent
over there.
[1:33:29] I'm more than happy to offer anything I
know. Okay. All right.
[1:33:33] I don't— okay, I do have a light. Uh,
yeah, you had to spoke all night, Donna.
[1:33:38] Is it Dawn?
[1:33:39] Dawn.
[1:33:39] Dawn. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Dawn.
[1:33:41] Just a couple things.
[1:33:42] So everything that's been said about the
river, I completely agree with.
[1:33:47] So I run a business on the river. I watch
river levels daily.
[1:33:51] And I can tell you, in the last 10 years,
the river rises more quickly—
[1:33:55] and I'm at mile 156 on the Duck— the river
rises more quickly than it used to,
[1:34:01] and it's from development in Spring Hill
and all of that pouring into Flat Creek.
[1:34:06] It comes in between gauges, between the
Milltown gauge and the Pottsville gauge.
[1:34:11] But I see this. I can't prove it
scientifically.
[1:34:14] It's all anecdotal, but I see this
happening from loss of permeable surface
[1:34:19] happening from loss of permeable surface
in the
[1:34:20] Spring Hill area. We muddy up more
quickly. We rise more quickly.
[1:34:24] And the gentleman that just spoke about
septic,
[1:34:27] if you spend any time walking the woods or
on the river or any of the properties
[1:34:32] around 431 Sowell Mill and out that
direction,
[1:34:35] you can walk acres of land and never touch
ground.
[1:34:39] You're going from one rock slab to the
next.
[1:34:42] Some of the land size or the plot sizes
would have to be a very organic approach
[1:34:47] because you simply cannot build. You can't
get septic, you can't dig a well.
[1:34:52] And that was it for me.
[1:34:54] All right. Sam, is that you? Question for
you and Mr. Townsend.
[1:34:58] What would you recommend we do in that
corner then if It's all rocks,
[1:35:03] just out of curiosity.
[1:35:05] Personally, I think—
[1:35:06] I don't think you can judge what each lot
is going to be without knowing the ground
[1:35:13] conditions. I think it's going to be
extremely hard to designate this has to be
[1:35:19] extremely hard to designate this has to be
1
[1:35:19] acre, this has to be 5 acres on that.
[1:35:21] Like, like she just mentioned a second
ago, it's more organic.
[1:35:26] You've got the rock there.
[1:35:28] You, you, I mean, my own property, I'm on
the north side of Columbia, and I can go—
[1:35:34] gosh, we dug a 1,000-foot water line in,
hit rock in one place,
[1:35:39] but the whole house site was rock. We've
got a pile of rock back behind us.
[1:35:44] It is everywhere. And you can walk 20 feet
over on the same lot and then hit rock,
[1:35:51] and then 5 feet over from that, you've got
a perfect spot.
[1:35:55] You just don't know what's under the
surface.
[1:35:58] Okay.
[1:35:58] the soil until you actually start digging.
[1:36:01] And that's why we use soil people who come
out, soil scientists,
[1:36:05] to come out and do those perk tests and
everything.
[1:36:09] So flexibility is probably what you
actually need,
[1:36:12] some sort of flexibility in that lot size,
whether it be 1 to 5 acres, or, you know,
[1:36:18] like a range or something like that.
[1:36:20] Or if you have some way to offset,
[1:36:22] maybe you've got a 1-acre lot here and But
it's offset with 2 or 3 other acres of
[1:36:28] woods and natural kind of terrain.
[1:36:30] So, I mean, there's options there,
[1:36:32] but I don't think it's possible to
designate this can be this amount right
[1:36:37] designate this can be this amount right
here.
[1:36:37] One clarification. If it was 1 acre and
you couldn't build on 1 acre,
[1:36:42] would you need a 1 to 5 designation or
something like that?
[1:36:46] Because if you couldn't build on 1, you
might need 3, to build.
[1:36:50] You might need 2, you might need 5, but
you're not saying you have to have 5.
[1:36:55] Because again, if it's organic,
[1:36:57] you may have a cluster where you have
little 1-acre lots that you could build
[1:37:02] multiple houses, and then you may have 30
acres you can't.
[1:37:06] So I, I think that we can, we can get into
the weeds on everything like that,
[1:37:11] but if we're looking at the totality and
the generality of it, Where do we land?
[1:37:16] Do we say you have to have 5,
[1:37:18] or do we say if you have 1 but it takes 4
to get your water and your,
[1:37:23] and your septic, then 4 is it? So I don't
know where we're going.
[1:37:27] It's great conversation. Where does it go?
[1:37:30] And I think that's the, the conversation
around the area, though.
[1:37:34] And I think if we go from every area,
we're going to have that same
[1:37:39] we're going to have that same
conversation,
[1:37:40] is where do you land within that? I agree.
[1:37:42] I got— are you able to put together the
GIS layers that we've been talking about
[1:37:48] with the map, with water lines and
existing services and, you know,
[1:37:52] school locations and all that kind of
stuff with what you've got?
[1:37:56] I need to verify with my coworker who does
all the GIS what we have,
[1:38:01] but I believe we have a lot of that
information.
[1:38:05] I don't know how detailed, like, the
utility information and stuff we have is,
[1:38:11] but I can double-check with Max and, and
get back with you guys on that,
[1:38:16] of kind of what we have. I know for sure—
[1:38:19] County GIS can do it with our county.
[1:38:22] I mean, and if somebody has it, we'll take
it.
[1:38:24] Well, I'm asking— no, I'm asking Scott,
with our—
[1:38:28] I know you do GIS for another county, but
do you— how—
[1:38:32] what layers do we have in Murray that you
know of?
[1:38:36] Right, okay, so what everything I've heard
tonight is that this isn't going to take
[1:38:42] 6 months. It's going to take a lot more
than 6 months.
[1:38:46] Okay, anybody else this evening want to
speak?
[1:38:49] And while we're still up here on the
northeast, you know, Mr.
[1:38:54] Perryman is correct, a lot of good
discussion, but where are we?
[1:38:59] Yes, ma'am, go ahead.
[1:39:00] So what I think, you know, again, this has
been a really interesting conversation,
[1:39:06] and I think what I'm getting from it is
You know,
[1:39:09] if we can sort of identify these areas
where you're not sure what to do with
[1:39:15] where you're not sure what to do with
them,
[1:39:15] those can be the areas that I dig into the
details of the lots.
[1:39:19] Like, again, we can't do an in-depth
per-lot analysis of every lot of the
[1:39:24] per-lot analysis of every lot of the
county,
[1:39:25] but we don't need to do that either.
[1:39:27] You know, we can kind of focus on some of
these areas and,
[1:39:31] and then kind of have that data and build
it off of that.
[1:39:35] Okay.
[1:39:37] And also, yeah, the densities in the
future land use categories would be
[1:39:42] future land use categories would be
established
[1:39:42] like recommended minimums.
[1:39:44] And so that 1-acre would be that minimum
threshold,
[1:39:47] that 5-acre would be that minimum
threshold.
[1:39:50] So like nothing in this would say like you
couldn't have a 50-acre farm in rural
[1:39:56] residential. Like that's all, you know,
agriculture and farming, conservation
[1:40:01] agriculture and farming, conservation
lands,
[1:40:01] all of those fall within those appropriate
uses under rural residential.
[1:40:06] Okay.
[1:40:06] How we describe that, and again,
[1:40:08] we can describe these land use categories
however you want.
[1:40:13] So we don't have to say minimum lot size 1
acre.
[1:40:16] We could say, you know, no development
under— I don't know.
[1:40:20] Well, I mean, we can think about, like,
again, how to, you know,
[1:40:25] how to set up those descriptions.
[1:40:27] So if we need to be more flexible with
them, we can do that. Okay.
[1:40:33] So can we get her a list of the layers
that we want?
[1:40:37] And, you know, we may have 5 different
maps to look at, but that's—
[1:40:41] we have 5 different maps to look at.
[1:40:44] Like, for me, historically, I want to make
absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt,
[1:40:49] sure that cemeteries are preserved.
[1:40:51] I've heard a lot of horror stories here
recently on, you know,
[1:40:55] cemeteries having stones knocked over.
[1:40:58] Yeah.
[1:40:58] The county south of here where a guy owns
some land and his family cemetery
[1:41:03] completely mowed over, you know.
[1:41:05] So that would be like a layer that I would
want to see.
[1:41:08] We want to see the water layers and things
like that.
[1:41:11] So I guess we need to, you know,
[1:41:13] come up with a list on what layers it is
we want to see.
[1:41:16] And, you know, if somebody particularly
says, okay,
[1:41:19] the northeast quadrant of the county It's
all rocks, you know.
[1:41:23] What are we going to do with that? You
know, what's that going to be?
[1:41:27] Um, you know, Santa Fe, the hills, what's
that going to be? They're exactly right.
[1:41:31] Like I said, good discussion tonight, but
I guess we need to work on getting those,
[1:41:36] those maps and those layers so that we can
see that.
[1:41:39] And it looks like we got more meetings
coming up, guys. Anybody else this
[1:41:43] coming up, guys. Anybody else this
evening?
[1:41:44] I mean, where, where are we going tonight?
What else we want?
[1:41:47] National Grounds.
[1:41:49] I'm sorry? Commissioner Grooms. Yes, sir.
[1:41:53] County Commission Chairman Grooms just got
back from fishing in Alaska. Yeah.
[1:41:59] I think one thing you had to do— you
mentioned it—
[1:42:03] but there's a lot of land that's old
company land that we don't want nobody
[1:42:09] company land that we don't want nobody
building
[1:42:10] on. There's a lot of it around Mount
Pleasant. So you need to find those areas.
[1:42:16] They need to be set aside to where, you
know, hey, we don't— this is—
[1:42:22] there's no building here because of what
was here before.
[1:42:26] I mean, I know all of that land has been
mitigated, but there's still stuff there.
[1:42:33] It's the big chunk of land right there
that you see if you go back to Mount
[1:42:39] Pleasant.
[1:42:40] Yes.
[1:42:40] I think that's pretty— that is Old company
land, or what were the— Stauffer?
[1:42:47] It's not—
[1:42:48] it wasn't Stauffer. I think it was Mobile
at the time. Stauffer's on the other side.
[1:42:53] Okay. So there's— it's a lot of stuff out
there that you need to find out where it
[1:42:59] is.
[1:42:59] Um, like non-environmentally able?
[1:43:03] Yes, yes, yes.
[1:43:05] Yeah, I don't—
[1:43:06] Uh, you also have Other businesses that
have land that doesn't need to be built on
[1:43:12] either. So, but you need to find those
areas for sure. All right.
[1:43:16] So what I would encourage everybody on the
committee then is if you've got a map
[1:43:21] layer that you want to see or concerned
with,
[1:43:24] email that to Robert and let's start
finding these maps and doing that.
[1:43:28] And, you know, if we got to bring in
another projector and show it on the wall.
[1:43:33] Actually, yeah, we can split screen a
little bit.
[1:43:36] We, you know, we'll come up with
something.
[1:43:39] Yeah, we would have to get— well, we can,
we can figure out—
[1:43:43] we can get Bill Wells and technology
involved. Yeah, okay. Anybody else?
[1:43:48] I have a light. Randy, come on. Tell us
your name and your district.
[1:43:52] You hadn't spoken. Randy Notley, District
8.
[1:43:55] I just wanted to point out, since we were
looking at the northeast— Randy,
[1:43:59] pull that mic up a little bit and talk
into the mic.
[1:44:03] Northeast quadrant here, since we're
looking at that,
[1:44:06] there is a number of developments going on
already.
[1:44:09] I don't think any of them are complete yet
on the west side of 431 between Keidron
[1:44:15] and Flat Creek. And last night at the
Planning Commission, they approved another
[1:44:20] Planning Commission, they approved another
82,
[1:44:20] I believe, house project up there. And
it's showing it all green there right now.
[1:44:25] And that's— that by the time we get done
with this,
[1:44:28] that's going to be all developed up there.
[1:44:31] The developers are moving in on that real
quick.
[1:44:34] So I don't know how buildable it all is.
[1:44:37] I don't know who they're going to sell
those homes to because real estate in
[1:44:42] those homes to because real estate in
Spring
[1:44:42] Hill is pretty bad right now.
[1:44:44] But should be aware of that because that
quadrant shows all green up there right
[1:44:49] now, and that whole west side is
checkerboarded with All right.
[1:44:53] Sam, you want to say something? What is
the best practice here?
[1:44:57] Like, is it— there should be a standard
check sheet of you guys need this layer,
[1:45:02] this layer, this layer, this layer, right?
[1:45:05] Like, I feel like we're sort of wandering.
[1:45:07] You know, are we about to go down rabbit
holes that are just going to waste our
[1:45:13] holes that are just going to waste our
time
[1:45:13] is what I'm asking.
[1:45:14] There is a lot of information available
And a lot of things that could go into an
[1:45:20] analysis for this. You can definitely make
it way more complicated than it probably
[1:45:26] needs to be, but it's really up to you all
as a community what you want to consider
[1:45:33] as important. Every future land use
process we do with every community is
[1:45:38] process we do with every community is
different.
[1:45:39] When we did Frankfort and Franklin County
in Kentucky, They literally—
[1:45:44] I think they had like 20-some advisory
committee meetings and they went parcel by
[1:45:50] parcel. It took forever, but they went
parcel by parcel.
[1:45:55] I wasn't, you know, we didn't have the
budget for me to be at every one of those
[1:46:01] meetings, but that's an option.
[1:46:03] You know, you could go even more high
level,
[1:46:06] like we could get rid of the yellow and we
could just sort of have county land that
[1:46:13] is agricultural or residential, you know,
like it's There's a lot of options for,
[1:46:19] you know, where you guys want to go.
[1:46:22] It kind of depends on how prescriptive do
you want your future land use map and your
[1:46:28] plan to be. So there's no right answer.
[1:46:31] Who? James, go ahead, James.
[1:46:33] So when I, when I look at this map and all
the green that we have on this map,
[1:46:38] I think of the soil types all over Marion
County. And Mr.
[1:46:42] Townsend alluded to the,
[1:46:43] the east side of the county over into
Marshall County being a lot of rock,
[1:46:48] but the majority of Marion County is
pretty fertile land.
[1:46:52] And it's a personal struggle for me to
think about taking land out of production
[1:46:58] think about taking land out of production
out
[1:46:58] of, out of land that's growing food for
the masses and putting a house or putting
[1:47:03] the masses and putting a house or putting
a
[1:47:03] concrete slab over for a factory or
whatever.
[1:47:06] So, but I'm not entirely opposed to it if
it's land that's marginally productive.
[1:47:12] So I maybe consider having some common
ground on areas that need to be left alone
[1:47:17] and need to be kept in production for food
because I think our food security is
[1:47:23] something we need to be very conscious of
as a community.
[1:47:26] I think back to 2020 when COVID hit, you
know,
[1:47:29] there was a bottleneck in our food chain
and we started seeing more of a need
[1:47:35] locally for local supplied food. And I
hope we never experience that again.
[1:47:40] And see, I remember going to Sonic and
they were putting a limit on burgers sold
[1:47:45] because they just had such, such a lack of
supply.
[1:47:48] And, uh, you know, we've got some rich
farmland that we produce some, some,
[1:47:53] some really valuable commodities that are
feeding a lot of people,
[1:47:58] including ourselves, and we don't need to
disregard that.
[1:48:02] All right, Eric Perryman, you're up, and
then Sam, you're after him. Go ahead.
[1:48:07] I'm gonna go back to—
[1:48:08] and the map that you were paid to produce
that you brought last week,
[1:48:13] I would love to know when you send that to
us,
[1:48:16] the layers that you included In that map
as to how you got to where those growth
[1:48:21] boundaries were, and whether those were
just existing or whether you looked at it
[1:48:27] and said, this is what we used to
determine that.
[1:48:30] And I think that I don't want to dismiss
your company's expertise,
[1:48:35] and this is what you're here to do.
[1:48:37] And if you had validation, at least in the
thought that these existed for a reason,
[1:48:43] I think we need to at least have some
discussion about why they were there.
[1:48:48] And is it legitimate? But again, I think
this is great discussion.
[1:48:52] We have to get some sort of criteria to
move forward so that we're all in
[1:48:57] move forward so that we're all in
agreement
[1:48:57] as to what we're looking at, because if
not, we're going to—
[1:49:02] we're just going to walk in circles.
[1:49:04] And we can do that because we all come at
it from a different perspective in a
[1:49:09] different way. The truth is 20 years,
[1:49:12] we don't know what this is going to look
like anyway.
[1:49:15] We're just doing a good shot at it.
[1:49:18] And, and there's technologies that
overcome all the things that we're saying
[1:49:23] overcome all the things that we're saying
you
[1:49:23] can't do and you can do. You can't build
on rock.
[1:49:26] Well, Chapel Hill's exploding and it ain't
nothing but a rock.
[1:49:30] So, you know, there's lots of things that
we can say.
[1:49:34] We just have to do a fair shot for
citizens.
[1:49:37] And I will say this, I don't want to go
county or parcel by parcel.
[1:49:41] The less government's involved in my
parcel, the better it is.
[1:49:45] And I sure don't want us to step into
everybody's world and say you can do this
[1:49:51] everybody's world and say you can do this
or
[1:49:51] do that. But the responsibility of the
committee is to say in an area,
[1:49:56] this is what we consider best for the
county. And so I get that.
[1:50:00] But I would love to see what criteria you
guys used to develop what you're paid to
[1:50:05] develop.
[1:50:06] Yeah, and we can definitely get into all
of that.
[1:50:10] I think from what I have on the screen
now,
[1:50:14] we need to dig in and look in more detail
around Mount Pleasant, around Coleeoca,
[1:50:20] these 2 areas around Spring Hill.
[1:50:23] Are there any other areas of the county
that you think we should analyze for kind
[1:50:30] of possible yellow inclusion?
[1:50:32] I think Sam, this is Sam.
[1:50:34] Um, you know, some of the people that have
talked tonight are concerned with,
[1:50:39] you know, the removal of property rights.
[1:50:41] And so if yesterday they could do 1-acre
lots throughout the county,
[1:50:46] and tomorrow we say, well, these parcel by
parcel, go by road,
[1:50:49] I don't care what we do it by, we are
going to be removing people's property
[1:50:54] going to be removing people's property
rights.
[1:50:55] And, you know, I, you know, that is not
something that, you know,
[1:50:59] and I don't know if there's a trigger in
the zoning that can change some of that.
[1:51:04] I mean, I understand the concept, but, you
know, I do think that it—
[1:51:08] you have to take into consideration both
sides of all of this.
[1:51:12] You know, if somebody wants to preserve
their land,
[1:51:15] then there should be a trigger that they
can come down and say, look,
[1:51:19] we want to do that. But, you know,
[1:51:21] the gentleman that wants to quit farming
in 10 years, and, you know,
[1:51:26] his son works in the corporate world, you
know what I mean?
[1:51:29] I mean, I don't feel comfortable telling
him like, hey,
[1:51:33] we're going to downzone your property.
[1:51:35] So, you know, I mean, I just, for what
it's worth, you know,
[1:51:39] I don't know if there's some sort of happy
medium and all that.
[1:51:43] But, you know, we live in a county that's
growing and— You know,
[1:51:47] some of these people are using this or
going to use this or have the opportunity
[1:51:52] going to use this or have the opportunity
to
[1:51:52] use their land as generational wealth.
[1:51:54] And some people may already have that and
some people don't.
[1:51:58] And I don't feel like we should be able to
remove those rights from people.
[1:52:03] So, I mean, I just, I think that's a
consideration that needs to be taken,
[1:52:07] consideration that needs to be taken,
needs to,
[1:52:08] you know, be thought about. So.
[1:52:10] I think the entire growth needs to slow
down myself personally.
[1:52:14] However, It's not going to happen.
[1:52:16] I lived in Atlanta for 20 years and
watched the urban sprawl that happened
[1:52:20] watched the urban sprawl that happened
there all
[1:52:21] the way up into Cherokee County and north
of that.
[1:52:24] And there's even a piece of the puzzle we
haven't even discussed or even brought up
[1:52:29] yet, and that's Huntsville, Alabama.
They're coming north.
[1:52:33] You know, Lincoln County is— I had only
39,000 people.
[1:52:36] It's fixing to be Huntsville North,
[1:52:38] and they're going to keep coming up the
interstate that way as well.
[1:52:43] Now granted, it's real hilly through there
and all that,
[1:52:46] but that entire Morrisville Pike area,
anything,
[1:52:49] anything within the interstate is going to
grow, you know,
[1:52:53] and people have known that for years and
they've invested and thought, okay, well,
[1:52:58] this, this is my nest egg and this is, you
know, now here, now the time's coming.
[1:53:03] But I'd like to see the, you know, rest of
the county protected.
[1:53:07] I used to— I live in Southeast Columbia or
Southwest Columbia rather, and I'm like,
[1:53:12] okay, build all you want up in Spring
Hill, but leave us alone down here.
[1:53:17] It's a, it's a tough call. Um, who else?
Who's that? Sam, your light's on. Go
[1:53:21] Who's that? Sam, your light's on. Go
ahead.
[1:53:22] 5-acre zoning on our comp plan for 20
years and nobody's done anything about it.
[1:53:27] So we, we make a recommendation to the
Planning Commission,
[1:53:31] the Planning Commission approves this comp
plan,
[1:53:34] and then if there's ever a downzoning,
[1:53:36] the County Commissioner are the only
people that can do that.
[1:53:40] So just FYI, we, we're advisory only.
Yeah, we recommend.
[1:53:43] Yep.
[1:53:44] All right, what else does this committee
want? Come on, Chris. Real quick.
[1:53:49] Chris, District 9. When those maps come
together,
[1:53:53] can we include the greenbelt so that we're
aware—
[1:53:56] so there's an overlay of that as well?
[1:53:59] One other point, or a couple other points
real quick.
[1:54:03] I think that some of these areas, we
shouldn't just say, okay,
[1:54:07] for whatever reason it can't be developed.
[1:54:10] Let's not underestimate the lengths that
the developers will go to.
[1:54:15] We know that they will, as anyone here
last night, they will do illegal stuff.
[1:54:21] They will— on Double Branch,
[1:54:23] they brought a 60,000-pound excavator over
there with a hammer on that.
[1:54:28] They had another Mini-X with the smaller
hammer.
[1:54:32] They did nearly 5,000 linear feet through
the bedrock out there to get that water
[1:54:38] line I also think, you know, just as an
example, Dr.
[1:54:42] Kevin and I, we disagree about some of the
land rights things,
[1:54:46] but we're both passionate.
[1:54:48] We show up and there's, you know, there's
these camps of a few people that show up.
[1:54:54] But I think I agree with him. We need to
talk to more people.
[1:54:59] And I just, I know this has been said
before,
[1:55:02] but I don't think the people's voices have
truly been heard,
[1:55:06] because I don't think we've given them
ample opportunity to do that in a way that
[1:55:12] they can, that they can live up to.
[1:55:15] We never once opened this room on, on
First Friday.
[1:55:19] And I don't think— I know that it would be
arduous,
[1:55:22] but I don't think it's out of the question
to do what this other county or
[1:55:28] municipality or whatever that you
mentioned, where you go parcel by parcel,
[1:55:33] or at least give the people an opportunity
where we can really hear their voices.
[1:55:39] and include that as harder data the same
way we would include these various maps of
[1:55:45] the existing infrastructure, et cetera. So
that's all I got. Thank you.
[1:55:50] Anybody else? Well, if I don't see any
action or any more discussion,
[1:55:55] supper's waiting on me at the house. So
what does this committee want to do?
[1:56:01] Do we keep talking about Northeast, or do
we— Set a time to reconvene?
[1:56:06] Do we have more public hearings?
[1:56:08] Do we send a survey out to every property
owner in the county? What do we do?
[1:56:14] Yeah, I mean, we're going to have to have
a couple more advisory committee meetings.
[1:56:20] That's just the bottom line. But, um, go
ahead.
[1:56:24] Yeah, well, why don't I start by digging
into You know,
[1:56:28] the areas around Mount Pleasant, the areas
around Coleeoka,
[1:56:32] and these areas around Spring Hill.
[1:56:34] If there's any other areas you want me to
add, tell me,
[1:56:38] and I can go and get zoomed-in maps for
you all.
[1:56:42] And then you all could, you know,
[1:56:44] look at those maps with more detail in a
zoomed-in fashion and then provide some
[1:56:50] recommendations.
[1:56:51] How about that?
[1:56:52] You know.
[1:56:55] Okay. Anything else for this committee
then? Last going once. Yes, sir, come on
[1:57:00] then? Last going once. Yes, sir, come on
up.
[1:57:00] We're right there. I'm just— for that
matter,
[1:57:03] this is our second public comment period.
[1:57:06] So anybody that wants to speak, just come
on up. You'll have 3 minutes.
[1:57:10] Give your name and your district, please.
Real quick question.
[1:57:14] Kevin Byer, District 9.
[1:57:16] Can the committee take comments from
individual property owners what they would
[1:57:21] desire with their— you know, you got a
map. Why not— Bring up that website,
[1:57:26] map. Why not— Bring up that website,
please.
[1:57:26] Why not say, hey, give people who own
property or property owners the
[1:57:31] property or property owners the
opportunity to
[1:57:31] say, hey, this is why I want to be every 5
acres, every 10 acres.
[1:57:36] I don't want my property developed,
[1:57:38] or I want my zoning to remain what it was
when I purchased it.
[1:57:42] We've had a website that's been up for
several months now where the public can
[1:57:47] comment. But no, I'm saying for you guys,
when you— It's a loophole.
[1:57:51] I'm saying specifically when you go
through to make your decisions on the
[1:57:56] through to make your decisions on the
specific
[1:57:57] zoning map, like you take— I would say
majority of people aren't going to, you
[1:58:02] majority of people aren't going to, you
know,
[1:58:02] they're going to be ambivalent.
[1:58:04] But there's going to be people who are
interested in, you know, specific things.
[1:58:09] Some people, Chris, are going to want no
building on his property ever.
[1:58:14] I would like to preserve the zoning I paid
for,
[1:58:17] and I'm sure a lot of farmers would as
well.
[1:58:20] So can, can we not— can you guys not take
comments from specific property owners?
[1:58:25] Absolutely.
[1:58:26] That, that you collate with your
decisions?
[1:58:29] Absolutely.
[1:58:31] Okay, perfect. That's my only question.
Thank you.
[1:58:34] I mean, and there again, we're not making
a decision, we're making a recommendation.
[1:58:39] We're— that's the whole point of this, is
for you to tell us So that we can say,
[1:58:44] well, this is what they say, this is what
they want, this is what the county wants,
[1:58:49] this is what this person on this, you
know, thing is looking at.
[1:58:53] But, you know, and, and we've had the
technology to do that.
[1:58:57] And, and, you know, we've been to— we went
to 4 different schools,
[1:59:01] 4 different schools around the county.
[1:59:03] I know we went, we went out to Santa Fe,
uh, out to Hampshire.
[1:59:07] Well, it was a Hampshire or Mount Pleasant
or— Holyoke was one.
[1:59:11] I mean, I went to The Coleoka meeting.
[1:59:13] But nobody really registered, hey, this is
my property.
[1:59:17] I mean, I've made my comments, but nobody
actually said, hey, all right,
[1:59:21] this property on this map, I want my
zoning to remain what it is.
[1:59:25] Liz, would you bring up that website,
[1:59:28] the comprehensive plan website where
people can make comments?
[1:59:32] I mean, yes, I can. Bring up the website,
[1:59:35] but we don't have like the future land use
map up
[1:59:39] there yet for—
[1:59:40] But there was comment. There was spaces
for persons to make comments, wasn't it?
[1:59:44] Yeah.
[1:59:44] So they can say, my name is John Doe and I
live at such and such address and I don't
[1:59:49] want this. I mean, I did that. I wrote a
long passage with my name and address.
[1:59:54] Did it come through Kevin Byer? Do you
have that information?
[1:59:58] I'm not sure at the moment. On the website
or at the meeting?
[2:00:04] At the meeting.
[2:00:05] Yeah, then we would have that information.
[2:00:06] So you have— but you have that information
about my specific properties?
[2:00:10] I mean, I would have to double-check. I
don't know off the top of my head.
[2:00:15] Okay. Well, I just think that people
should be given an opportunity. Thank you.
[2:00:21] Yes, sir. All right. Is there anybody else
that wants to speak? Public comment.
[2:00:26] Hang on.
[2:00:29] Go ahead.
[2:00:29] Spring Hill has grown. Columbia has grown.
[2:00:33] And now Mount Pleasant is starting to grow
a little bit.
[2:00:37] We can't be totally opposed to some
growth.
[2:00:40] And we can't be totally opposed to
something that the brownfield down in
[2:00:46] something that the brownfield down in
Mount
[2:00:46] Pleasant where they wanted to put the
solar panels and put goats on it.
[2:00:51] I mean, that's all that can be used for.
It can't be used for anything else.
[2:00:57] So there's some things that we're going to
have to allow because of the land.
[2:01:03] But I just— Mount Pleasant needs to grow a
little bit too.
[2:01:07] So I just wanted to say that. Deborah, did
you want to speak? Go ahead.
[2:01:13] So clearly having the meetings at the 5
schools There was not a large turnout at
[2:01:19] schools There was not a large turnout at
any
[2:01:19] of them. And so how do we get this
information out to the people?
[2:01:24] It's like, yeah, well, we should let the
people give our input,
[2:01:29] but how do we do that successfully?
[2:01:32] Because it's— I don't consider, you know,
[2:01:35] 5 people at a meeting at a school a
successful use of our time or their time.
[2:01:41] So what is your recommendation for us to
get,
[2:01:44] to get the information out there to
everyone in the county?
[2:01:49] It's a very difficult thing to do.
[2:01:51] And from when you're planning for a
county, you're never going to reach
[2:01:57] county, you're never going to reach
everybody.
[2:01:58] And every planning process we do, we, you
know, we can't reach every person.
[2:02:04] For— we're working on Brentwood's
comprehensive plan right now,
[2:02:09] and they are sending postcards to every
single resident in the community.
[2:02:15] That's 15,000 residents and it's costing
like 8 grand.
[2:02:20] So they think that's an important thing to
do.
[2:02:23] So there's always the ability to reach
more people if the community and the,
[2:02:30] you know, the county want to spend the
money and the resources to do that.
[2:02:36] But somebody here has to be, you know,
knocking on doors or standing with flyers.
[2:02:42] Yeah.
[2:02:43] You know, people have to get out in the
community and do that.
[2:02:48] I can't force you guys to do that. You
guys can't— you know, I'm not here.
[2:02:54] So thank you.
[2:02:55] Come on. Yeah, well, no, we got public
comment,
[2:02:59] so come on up and you go after her.
[2:03:01] Just tell us your name and your district.
[2:03:04] Sabina Barnett, District 5.
[2:03:06] It is hard to bring people to commission
meetings,
[2:03:10] but it's been impossible to communicate on
this issue.
[2:03:15] I have been to Collioca to a little
school.
[2:03:19] I've been to Spring Hill.
[2:03:20] There were no more than 6 people there,
and one of them was a developer.
[2:03:25] There's social media, y'all. You could put
it on I Heart Columbia.
[2:03:29] You could put it on the Murray County
site. You could put it in each little
[2:03:33] site. You could put it in each little
hamlet.
[2:03:34] They have a social media page.
[2:03:37] You can put it out there.
[2:03:39] I mean, I've tried to get my neighbors to
come,
[2:03:42] but it's very difficult for working people
to come at a 5:30 meeting.
[2:03:46] It's very, very difficult. And there's got
to be better communication.
[2:03:53] It's hard enough for me to get an agenda
for the Planning Commission meeting.
[2:03:57] It's so buried in the site. But we have
social media, and there are other ways.
[2:04:01] Thank you.
[2:04:02] of doing it. We just have to make it a
priority because I do think that people
[2:04:08] priority because I do think that people
have
[2:04:08] a lot of good ideas.
[2:04:09] And as we're talking about places for
growth,
[2:04:13] it's impossible unless we have the road
structure first.
[2:04:17] We are seeing our half a mile of Double
Branch completely ruined because of all of
[2:04:23] the construction coming down a downhill
when we have a heavy rain.
[2:04:29] They just tar and chipped our road in June
and it's ruined already.
[2:04:33] And then we have somebody else who's
putting a bridge over part of the creek
[2:04:39] putting a bridge over part of the creek
and
[2:04:39] that's going to probably cause flooding.
[2:04:42] So there's so many issues to take into
consideration when you talk
[2:04:47] about growth. And many people have said
some areas cannot handle it.
[2:04:51] But I think the main thing is we have to
communicate better.
[2:04:57] And there's just creative ways.
[2:05:00] Ask a teenager, hire a teenager, and
they'll do it for you. Thank you.
[2:05:05] All right, anybody else wish to speak?
Come on up. Kevin Byer again, District 9.
[2:05:10] 2 dissimilar comments.
[2:05:12] One is, with all due respect, I've made—
[2:05:14] I have made my comments several times to
you. I've written it.
[2:05:19] I've written a letter.
[2:05:20] I don't know how many of you guys have
received my letter,
[2:05:24] but I don't know that that information is
getting collated.
[2:05:28] So I think we need to make sure people who
submit that information,
[2:05:33] that should be taken into account when you
draw the map.
[2:05:37] And so I think you should know the people
who are showing up at the meetings and
[2:05:42] are— I think we do. would like to have
their property either remain or change.
[2:05:47] I think that's an important aspect of this
whole thing.
[2:05:51] Number 2, dissimilar, is I think we need
to focus on what's best for Murray County.
[2:05:57] It needs to develop in some regard in a
smart fashion.
[2:06:01] We need to have better schools, better
services.
[2:06:04] And again, most of the county is not ready
for development,
[2:06:08] but I think we should focus— how do we
make this a thriving economic engine?
[2:06:13] And how can we make the schools better and
a place that people want to come?
[2:06:18] That's it. All right, anybody else wish to
speak? All right, I see none.
[2:06:23] Uh, any last comments from this committee?
Otherwise we're going home.
[2:06:28] Sam, go ahead. Tonight I do not want to
just come back to another meeting and
[2:06:33] dawdle. Yeah, let's get it together. I
wish I had an answer, but— Right.
[2:06:38] So what is our plan going forward?
[2:06:41] You're going to work on the areas that we
talked about.
[2:06:44] You're going to— we're all going to,
[2:06:47] or some of us are going to get together
and look at layered maps,
[2:06:51] whether we take that any farther or not.
[2:06:54] You know, we need to get some layered maps
to see some of the areas.
[2:06:59] I think people kind of like the idea of
dividing the county into 4 quadrants and
[2:07:04] doing one at a time.
[2:07:05] Of course, you know, we're 20 minutes till
8 now,
[2:07:09] and we're no farther than where we were
when we got here tonight.
[2:07:13] So, well, we are, we are, we are, but I
mean, but still, we don't— we didn't have
[2:07:19] mean, but still, we don't— we didn't have
a—
[2:07:19] there's no closure. We're not, we're not
at any closure. Deborah, go ahead.
[2:07:24] To Sam's point, can we put something on
the calendar right now before we leave
[2:07:29] the calendar right now before we leave
here
[2:07:30] so that those of us that can attend and
look for layered maps,
[2:07:34] look through layered maps, and give our
input can do so,
[2:07:38] because leaving here without— Well,
[2:07:40] the County Commission convenes the first
Monday and Tuesday of the month,
[2:07:45] and the first 3 Mondays are shot for
commission meetings.
[2:07:49] You can't have the room then. And then,
yeah, Thursdays don't work.
[2:07:54] Tuesdays are pretty much the evenings,
[2:07:56] but it would be like the 3rd Tuesday
When's Planning Commission?
[2:08:01] Planning Commission is the 4th Monday. The
4th Monday.
[2:08:04] School board's 1st and 3rd Tuesday. 1st
and 3rd Tuesday.
[2:08:08] Thursdays work for us usually. Thursdays
work?
[2:08:11] So Thursdays, so, you know, you could do
Thursdays.
[2:08:15] So in September you've got the 3rd, the
10th.
[2:08:18] Well, see, that's city— well,
[2:08:20] the 10th is City Council voting session
for those that go to that. 17th works.
[2:08:25] So the 3rd, the 3rd, uh, The 3rd Thursday
of September is the 17th.
[2:08:30] Is that too far out? That's pretty far
out. Too far out.
[2:08:34] I mean, if we're going to do this in
quadrants,
[2:08:38] and I know clearly we're not going to make
our October 1st goal at this
[2:08:44] point, so I don't know.
[2:08:46] What do you guys think? What are the
ramifications of that?
[2:08:50] We're thinking about that now. Moratorium
expires, set to expire October 1st.
[2:08:55] So that would be on the commission to do
anything about that.
[2:08:59] But isn't that problematic? We got what we
got. I mean, like we've always had.
[2:09:04] In a sense of, isn't it problematic that
if it expires, what y'all go to,
[2:09:09] just revert back to what y'all had? That's
what we have currently.
[2:09:13] It's never gone away.
[2:09:15] Would it be possible—
[2:09:16] she's going to send us information
concerning those areas and those maps for
[2:09:21] concerning those areas and those maps for
in an
[2:09:21] email chain or something.
[2:09:23] Anyone that has questions,
[2:09:25] email those questions to that chain so
that the whole group can see them.
[2:09:30] And then you guys can work to build an
agenda off of the feedback that you get
[2:09:35] agenda off of the feedback that you get
off
[2:09:35] of concerns or questions that we have.
[2:09:37] And then the maps that you send— 17th is a
long time. That's a long way.
[2:09:42] I think, I think while the conversation's
fresh,
[2:09:45] We at least need to be in conversation.
[2:09:48] If we wait a month to pick it back up, we
start right back over where we are.
[2:09:53] How about Tuesday the 8th? Well, I think,
uh, let me see if I can chime in here.
[2:09:58] Liz, is it possible to do a worksheet with
the map on there,
[2:10:02] share it with the advisory committee,
[2:10:05] let them mark it up as a group or
individually and put their ideas on there?
[2:10:10] And Submit it to my office.
[2:10:12] Yeah.
[2:10:14] So if I— Or as a public input from
McBride, Dale, Clarion.
[2:10:19] Can y'all do that like we do the website?
Except for the advisory committee.
[2:10:26] It doesn't matter.
[2:10:27] So there's options. Probably, I mean, what
would be the easiest is if, again,
[2:10:33] we sort of zoom in and we design it so you
could print it at like 11 by 17.
[2:10:38] You know, I don't want to assume that you
guys are going to print big maps,
[2:10:43] but we could zoom it in.
[2:10:45] You guys can look at it on the computer,
and then I could—
[2:10:49] I know we do have the capabilities to do,
like, interactive maps,
[2:10:54] but I don't know if that's— I feel like
that might just be too much at this point.
[2:11:00] That's what I was—
[2:11:01] oh. And so if we zoom it in and then—
[2:11:04] You all could sort of either comment on a
PDF or like on an image or
[2:11:10] just, you know, send an email with
bulleted comments, you know.
[2:11:15] Does that make sense as like an interim
step?
[2:11:20] Well, we also don't— you know, we also
mentioned the issue earlier about, you
[2:11:23] mentioned the issue earlier about, you
know,
[2:11:24] he doesn't know this part of the county,
he doesn't know that part of the county.
[2:11:27] So, so being individual about it, you
know, there needs to be that—
[2:11:31] there needs to be collaboration. Involved.
So—
[2:11:33] Well, I think if everybody has the
opportunity to comment on all the county,
[2:11:38] if you only want to comment on one area as
a person, you can.
[2:11:43] And we can take all those comments,
[2:11:45] do an updated version of this map from
those comments,
[2:11:49] and then we can bring that version back
out to the public for review.
[2:11:54] I mean, we're going to probably have still
2 or 3 4 or 5, I don't know,
[2:11:58] iterations of this map before the final.
[2:12:01] So, but I think we can kind of have a
working draft in between where we can dig
[2:12:07] working draft in between where we can dig
in,
[2:12:07] we can discuss things a little bit more
detail,
[2:12:10] then that can go out for public comment.
[2:12:13] No, I said the 8th. Oh no.
[2:12:16] Well, tell her coordination.
[2:12:20] Come on, please come on up.
[2:12:24] I just want to say, if you decided to have
quadrant meetings,
[2:12:27] those dates would need to be set.
[2:12:29] Go ahead and set those dates.
[2:12:31] All of them can be put out to the public
because they would have to be bang, bang,
[2:12:35] bang.
[2:12:35] We got to get the notices out. Pardon?
[2:12:37] Got to get the notices out.
[2:12:38] Yeah. So I mean, I would say, why would
you—
[2:12:41] if you're going to do that and if that's
your choice to do,
[2:12:45] then why wouldn't we set those— go ahead
and set those dates?
[2:12:50] Yeah, see, and, and we're sitting here
debating, but I'm liking Tuesdays myself.
[2:12:55] Tuesday the 8th, Tuesday the 15th, Tuesday
the 22nd. Do what?
[2:13:00] No, the first, the first Tuesday is, uh,
the first is a Tuesday. You're right.
[2:13:05] Yeah, okay, the first.
[2:13:07] So that you're right, so they couldn't do
that because of that.
[2:13:11] Well then, you know, Wednesday's church
night, but it is tough. Go ahead, Deborah.
[2:13:17] Not every date is going to work for
everybody,
[2:13:20] but if we can at least get some dates
online for those people that can make it,
[2:13:26] but in the meantime, before those dates,
[2:13:29] these maps are sent out so we have
something to work with in our brain before
[2:13:34] something to work with in our brain before
we
[2:13:34] meet. So we're meeting on the date with
information that has already been sent out
[2:13:40] and reviewed. Does that make sense? Well,
pretty light on.
[2:13:44] Yeah, I agree.
[2:13:45] I agree with what he's saying.
[2:13:47] Back to Thursdays, uh, first 3 Thursdays
in September.
[2:13:50] But also, I would say I would not make it
5:30.
[2:13:53] I, I hate to do this to you, but I'd say
6:30 or 7:30.
[2:13:56] Go home, get dinner, and come back,
because these people can't come after
[2:14:00] because these people can't come after
work.
[2:14:01] Let's, let's— I mean, you know, county
commission meetings start at 6:30,
[2:14:05] and that's, that's to give everybody time
to have a meal and, and Feed the dog,
[2:14:10] cut the dog out, and then come back.
[2:14:12] So I'm, you know, Thursdays are fine, but
I would say 6:30.
[2:14:15] I wouldn't start before that.
[2:14:17] And I hate to say that, but, you know, if
it gets the public in here,
[2:14:21] let's get the public in here.
[2:14:23] So, so, so, okay, so, so we're looking at,
uh,
[2:14:25] of course it's going to be close to
getting a notice out on that first one.
[2:14:30] It can be done through the Daily Herald.
You can't do it through, uh, Main Street.
[2:14:35] Well, it doesn't have to be. So first, so
Thursday the 3rd, Thursday the 10th.
[2:14:39] If I tell them tomorrow, I can publish it.
It'll come out next Wednesday.
[2:14:43] So Thursday the 3rd, Thursday the 10th,
Thursday the 17th, and Thursday the 27th.
[2:14:48] 24th.
[2:14:49] I'm sorry, 24th. You're right. So the 3rd
will be the northeast quadrant.
[2:14:55] The 10th will be the southeast quadrant.
[2:14:58] The 17th will be the southwest quadrant,
[2:15:01] and the 24th will be the northwest
quadrant. Define quadrant while we're
[2:15:07] quadrant. Define quadrant while we're
here.
[2:15:07] So if you take some—
[2:15:09] if you take Highway 50 and go all the way
across and then down through the middle of
[2:15:15] Columbia, Highway 31 as it were. Do we
want to do it that way, Eric?
[2:15:21] Well, then y'all tell me. Look at
Collioca, Mount Pleasant, Columbia.
[2:15:26] You tell me then. I don't know, you want
to split Columbia into 4 pieces?
[2:15:32] Well, Columbia is already a city, so it's
already done. I mean, it is what it is.
[2:15:38] Well, I'm I mean the area around.
[2:15:41] Well, and, and there again, you've got
geography issues and land size issues.
[2:15:47] So you, you may be right. I tell my wife
that.
[2:15:50] I say we sit— well, never mind, I'm not on
the committee.
[2:15:55] Well, I mean, committee, I mean, y'all
tell me, is that—
[2:15:59] does that work for you guys? Highway 31?
Yeah. All right, let them do it.
[2:16:05] So, but anyway, northeast first on the
3rd, southeast on the— let's see,
[2:16:10] southeast on the 10th, southwest on the
17th, northwest on the 24th.
[2:16:16] And all at 6:30. All at 6:30. Hear ye,
hear ye. The next 4 Thursdays.
[2:16:21] All right, anybody else? Deborah, go
ahead. Hang on, let me get your light.
[2:16:27] So does this give you enough time to get a
map together with overlays?
[2:16:32] And who provides the overlays for her with
our infrastructure, water?
[2:16:36] Is that something that you have to get to
her, Robert?
[2:16:40] I'll reach out to the utilities. We don't
man that, but I do have some PDFs of it.
[2:16:45] But for a GIS overlay I'll have to reach
out to the utilities.
[2:16:48] For the power, the state of Tennessee,
I'll have to look through the utilities,
[2:16:53] see if they got their individual, but if
not,
[2:16:56] I'm almost certain that the state of
Tennessee has it.
[2:16:59] Whether I can get it in time or not,
doubtful.
[2:17:02] So there's new protections for Homeland
Security of utility workers.
[2:17:06] Yeah. Oh, yeah. So just confirm with her,
please,
[2:17:09] what overlays we need for her to have In
order for her to get a comprehensive map
[2:17:13] out to us. And we ought to be able to get—
Todd Shultz is on this committee,
[2:17:17] but he couldn't be here tonight with
County Water.
[2:17:20] So, you know, we ought to be able to reach
out to him and get some information out
[2:17:24] of him.
[2:17:25] Okay.
[2:17:29] And Deborah, the maps— the map she's
pulling from is from our mapping sources.
[2:17:34] Johnny Stevens does all the parcel data.
[2:17:37] We don't have GIS mapping for the county
or a mapper other than for the parcel data
[2:17:42] and tax— for the tax assessor's office.
[2:17:45] So I'll have to look to these other
entities.
[2:17:48] My office has just now got a mapper, and
we're doing the zoning and stuff like
[2:17:53] we're doing the zoning and stuff like
that.
[2:17:54] And soon to be, we'll be tracking every
permit and development in the county
[2:17:59] permit and development in the county
through
[2:17:59] GIS. But currently, we don't have all the
utilities,
[2:18:03] all the infrastructure layouts or any of
that, so I'll have to outsource that.
[2:18:08] Okay.
[2:18:09] All right, anything else?
[2:18:11] I'll just say this, there are 600
cemeteries in Murray County.
[2:18:16] Anything else for this committee? All
right, seeing none, we will adjourn.
[2:18:22] Thank you.