1
00:00:10,530 --> 00:00:13,031
So these agendas didn't get reprinted
then?

2
00:00:13,031 --> 00:00:13,566
Correct.

3
00:00:13,566 --> 00:00:19,098
Okay, that's fine. We need to save money
on paper. All right, are we good?

4
00:00:19,098 --> 00:00:23,359
All right. All right, good evening, ladies
and gentlemen.

5
00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:28,817
I want to welcome everybody to the
September meeting of the Comprehensive

6
00:00:28,817 --> 00:00:29,415
September meeting of the Comprehensive
Land Use

7
00:00:29,415 --> 00:00:34,274
Advisory Committee. Let the record show
that we do have a quorum.

8
00:00:34,274 --> 00:00:37,787
It was in our rules that we had 7, and
with Mr.

9
00:00:37,787 --> 00:00:43,095
Vrailas showing up, we now have 8, so that
issue is well taken care of.

10
00:00:43,095 --> 00:00:46,983
The next order of business is the prayer
and pledge,

11
00:00:46,983 --> 00:00:52,216
and I've asked the Honorable Greg Combs
I'd like to ask our new county

12
00:00:52,216 --> 00:00:53,113
I'd like to ask our new county
commissioner

13
00:00:53,113 --> 00:00:55,505
if he would lead us in a prayer.

14
00:00:55,505 --> 00:00:59,766
So if you'd come on up and do that, we'll,
we'll do that.

15
00:00:59,766 --> 00:01:03,429
And you don't have to stand if you don't
want to.

16
00:01:03,429 --> 00:01:07,691
Pray in whatever position is comfortable
for you to pray.

17
00:01:07,691 --> 00:01:11,727
It's up, you know, you do as you wish.
Please uncover.

18
00:01:11,727 --> 00:01:17,260
Heavenly Father, Lord, we love who you are
and we love what you stand for,

19
00:01:17,260 --> 00:01:22,866
and we're so grateful that we live in a
nation that you've given us freedom

20
00:01:22,866 --> 00:01:23,390
nation that you've given us freedom
Freedom

21
00:01:23,390 --> 00:01:27,800
not to just do what we want, but freedom
to respect others,

22
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,136
to follow your holy word, to be
respectful, to give grace.

23
00:01:32,136 --> 00:01:37,295
Father, we just operate by the order that
you've given our footsteps.

24
00:01:37,295 --> 00:01:43,200
Lord, we thank you for this time tonight
where we're able to gather and discuss

25
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,041
these topics that are important to us.

26
00:01:46,041 --> 00:01:50,601
Thank you for all the folks that made it
here tonight safely,

27
00:01:50,601 --> 00:01:54,564
and we ask that you As well get us home
safely again.

28
00:01:54,564 --> 00:01:58,974
We ask a special blessing over our troops
in foreign lands,

29
00:01:58,974 --> 00:02:01,142
all branches of the military.

30
00:02:01,142 --> 00:02:07,123
Father, we ask that you bless our police
and fire and all those first responders

31
00:02:07,123 --> 00:02:12,580
that take care of us when we need them
most. Lord, we thank you and we're

32
00:02:12,580 --> 00:02:13,253
most. Lord, we thank you and we're
grateful.

33
00:02:13,253 --> 00:02:13,498
Amen.

34
00:02:13,590 --> 00:02:18,353
For your love, your provision, we pray
your favor and protection around all of

35
00:02:18,353 --> 00:02:18,536
your favor and protection around all of
us.

36
00:02:18,536 --> 00:02:20,673
In Jesus' name we pray, amen. Amen.

37
00:02:20,673 --> 00:02:24,825
All right, now I'll lead us in a pledge to
the flag. Please join me.

38
00:02:24,825 --> 00:02:29,343
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

39
00:02:29,343 --> 00:02:29,832
United States of America and to the
Republic

40
00:02:29,832 --> 00:02:33,190
for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible,

41
00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:37,586
with liberty and justice for all. Thank
you, everyone. Please be seated.

42
00:02:37,586 --> 00:02:41,494
All right, next item on the agenda is our
public comment period,

43
00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:45,279
but before we do that, I'm going to make a
couple of comments.

44
00:02:45,279 --> 00:02:48,149
Um, last month's meeting, we were in the
weeds.

45
00:02:48,149 --> 00:02:52,179
We were in the weeds a lot, and so this
month with comment period,

46
00:02:52,179 --> 00:02:56,514
we allowed people to speak during the
meeting, um, that were not on the

47
00:02:56,514 --> 00:02:57,125
meeting, um, that were not on the
committee,

48
00:02:57,125 --> 00:02:59,689
and we're not going to do that this month.

49
00:02:59,689 --> 00:03:04,513
We have a public comment period per our
bylaws at the beginning of the meeting,

50
00:03:04,513 --> 00:03:04,696
bylaws at the beginning of the meeting,
uh,

51
00:03:04,696 --> 00:03:08,726
3 minutes apiece, up to 30 minutes, and at
the end of the meeting,

52
00:03:08,726 --> 00:03:13,000
3 minutes up to 30 minutes, you know, for,
uh, whoever wants to speak.

53
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,442
Uh, there's a sign-up sheet in the back,

54
00:03:15,442 --> 00:03:18,617
and I hope that anyone wants to speak has
done that.

55
00:03:18,617 --> 00:03:23,624
Um, I also want to just remind everybody,
committee members as well as the public,

56
00:03:23,624 --> 00:03:27,471
that we are an advisory committee. We are
not making decisions.

57
00:03:27,471 --> 00:03:28,529
Okay.

58
00:03:28,529 --> 00:03:31,017
We are looking at what's done here.

59
00:03:31,017 --> 00:03:36,134
We have a We have a planner here that's
helping us to put that together,

60
00:03:36,134 --> 00:03:40,470
a consultant, and they're going to put
that package together,

61
00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:43,740
and then that goes to the Planning
Commission.

62
00:03:43,740 --> 00:03:47,507
The Planning Commission is the deciding
body on that.

63
00:03:47,507 --> 00:03:51,701
So I just want to make sure that, you
know, we're going to—

64
00:03:51,701 --> 00:03:55,610
we're not going to get into the weeds too
much tonight.

65
00:03:55,610 --> 00:03:59,875
We're going to stay focused, and we are
not a deciding body.

66
00:03:59,875 --> 00:04:05,276
So with that said, our public comment
period is open. Does somebody have the

67
00:04:05,276 --> 00:04:05,703
period is open. Does somebody have the
sheet?

68
00:04:05,703 --> 00:04:10,607
If they'd bring that up here to me, I
would appreciate it. Thank you.

69
00:04:10,607 --> 00:04:12,455
And while he's doing that,

70
00:04:12,455 --> 00:04:17,218
I want to recognize our county
commissioners and Mayor Butter here.

71
00:04:17,218 --> 00:04:19,848
We're glad to see y'all this evening,

72
00:04:19,848 --> 00:04:23,188
so thanks to you guys that were able to
attend.

73
00:04:23,188 --> 00:04:28,448
Um, I'm waiting on the list to get up
here. Let me go get it. Thanks, sir.

74
00:04:28,448 --> 00:04:33,850
Appreciate that. All right, so this— I'm,
I'm counting this the first sheet.

75
00:04:33,850 --> 00:04:39,821
So this is the second sheet for everybody
who wants to sign up and speak at the end.

76
00:04:39,821 --> 00:04:44,938
So we'll leave that back there. All right,
I've got 11 people signed up.

77
00:04:44,938 --> 00:04:48,919
We have 6 people signed up to speak at 3
minutes apiece.

78
00:04:48,919 --> 00:04:53,254
That's going to run us to the limit, so
we'll get going here.

79
00:04:53,254 --> 00:04:56,950
The first person signed up to speak is
Pater Jensen.

80
00:04:56,950 --> 00:05:01,215
Please come to the mic, tell us your name
and your district,

81
00:05:01,215 --> 00:05:05,196
and you'll have 3 minutes, sir. My name is
Pater Jensen.

82
00:05:05,196 --> 00:05:08,394
I reside here in District 6 in Murray
County.

83
00:05:08,394 --> 00:05:10,597
Good evening, and first of all,

84
00:05:10,597 --> 00:05:16,497
I want to sincerely thank every member of
this committee for volunteering your time

85
00:05:16,497 --> 00:05:19,767
and taking on a very difficult
responsibility.

86
00:05:19,767 --> 00:05:24,031
I want to thank our planner that is
working on this as well,

87
00:05:24,031 --> 00:05:29,931
and I'm proud to see such a diverse group
of people representing different parts of

88
00:05:29,931 --> 00:05:35,688
Murray County on this committee, bringing
different perspectives to this process.

89
00:05:35,688 --> 00:05:41,232
I believe that diversity is exactly what
we need for this plan for the future.

90
00:05:41,232 --> 00:05:47,203
And it's your job ultimately to design and
drive a plan for the next 20 to 30 years.

91
00:05:47,203 --> 00:05:51,254
It cannot be retroactive. It cannot be
looking backwards.

92
00:05:51,254 --> 00:05:53,529
It needs to be looking forwards.

93
00:05:53,529 --> 00:05:58,291
Please make sure you keep that in mind as
you're on this committee.

94
00:05:58,291 --> 00:06:03,338
My biggest concern is that we don't lose
sight of what the purpose of a

95
00:06:03,338 --> 00:06:05,399
comprehensive plan should be.

96
00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:10,801
To me, there should be a 20 to 30 year
vision for how Murray County can grow

97
00:06:10,801 --> 00:06:16,700
responsibly, not simply a plan for putting
more restrictions on our property owners

98
00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:19,543
today. And before we make major changes,

99
00:06:19,543 --> 00:06:23,808
we must accurately show what Murray County
looks like today.

100
00:06:23,808 --> 00:06:29,494
I would like to see a GIS-based plan that
is extremely detailed. It is now 2026.

101
00:06:29,494 --> 00:06:32,053
All of these tools are at our hands.

102
00:06:32,053 --> 00:06:37,953
I want to be able to zoom in all the way
down to the street level to see the homes,

103
00:06:37,953 --> 00:06:42,360
the businesses, the subdivisions,
agricultural areas, existing

104
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:43,426
agricultural areas, existing
infrastructure,

105
00:06:43,426 --> 00:06:46,127
and communities that are already here.

106
00:06:46,127 --> 00:06:49,752
If a neighborhood was approved and built
years ago,

107
00:06:49,752 --> 00:06:52,595
that needs to be reflected on this plan.

108
00:06:52,595 --> 00:06:56,646
If a subdivision has been approved to come
in the future,

109
00:06:56,646 --> 00:06:59,489
that needs to be reflected on this plan.

110
00:06:59,489 --> 00:07:04,607
If a business has been operating and
serving this community for decades,

111
00:07:04,607 --> 00:07:06,526
that needs to be reflected.

112
00:07:06,526 --> 00:07:11,360
Our future plan should not inadvertently
change what already exists.

113
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,051
And if someone owns a parcel that's, say,
less than 5 acres today,

114
00:07:16,051 --> 00:07:21,879
I don't believe that property owner should
suddenly be penalized because we decide

115
00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:24,935
to change the rules for future
development.

116
00:07:24,935 --> 00:07:29,556
We need to be extremely specific in how we
program these changes.

117
00:07:29,556 --> 00:07:34,460
I also believe that we need to think
creatively about our small rural

118
00:07:34,460 --> 00:07:35,242
creatively about our small rural
communities

119
00:07:35,242 --> 00:07:38,440
and think about how they were many years
ago.

120
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:44,411
See places like Theta, Santa Fe, Culebra,
the village of Hampshire and Williamsport,

121
00:07:44,411 --> 00:07:50,310
and Bethel. Let's allow these communities
to have appropriate village-style living.

122
00:07:50,310 --> 00:07:55,073
Let's encourage the small businesses that
make these places unique.

123
00:07:55,073 --> 00:07:59,337
Businesses like the Santa Fe Diner,
Carter's Creek Antiques.

124
00:07:59,337 --> 00:08:01,328
They're not just businesses,

125
00:08:01,328 --> 00:08:07,014
they're locally owned livelihoods and part
of what makes these communities work.

126
00:08:07,014 --> 00:08:12,842
In fact, the first map I saw last month
didn't even include— I got to cut you off,

127
00:08:12,842 --> 00:08:16,467
Peter. That was your 3 minutes. Thank you,
brother.

128
00:08:16,467 --> 00:08:21,372
Because I got, I got some— if it was just
a couple people, I'd do it,

129
00:08:21,372 --> 00:08:24,002
but we got that many. We got a bunch.

130
00:08:24,002 --> 00:08:29,190
We got 3 more minutes at the end, so pick
up where you left off, sign in.

131
00:08:29,190 --> 00:08:32,602
All right, next one up is going to be Jim
Baker.

132
00:08:32,602 --> 00:08:38,359
Come on up and state your name and your
district where you live at here in Murray

133
00:08:38,359 --> 00:08:41,913
County, and you'll have 3 minutes, sir.
I'm Baker.

134
00:08:41,913 --> 00:08:47,600
I live at, uh, 7016 Old Zion Road, and I
don't really know what district I'm in.

135
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,153
All right, well, go ahead. You got 3
minutes, sir.

136
00:08:51,153 --> 00:08:55,418
Okay, uh, I want to talk from an
agricultural Point of view.

137
00:08:55,418 --> 00:08:59,399
I was in the John Deere business here for
over 40 years,

138
00:08:59,399 --> 00:09:03,805
and I knew a lot of farmers, almost all of
them in the county.

139
00:09:03,805 --> 00:09:07,359
And farmers worked hard, they paid for
their land,

140
00:09:07,359 --> 00:09:12,690
and when they got to retirement age, most
of them, all they had was a farm.

141
00:09:12,690 --> 00:09:14,325
Didn't have any CDs or—

142
00:09:14,325 --> 00:09:15,992
Okay.

143
00:09:15,992 --> 00:09:23,480
Didn't have any CDs or certificates of
deposit, but they had their land.

144
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,847
If we impose this, this 5-acre limitation,

145
00:09:27,847 --> 00:09:32,423
you're taking away some of their
livelihood.

146
00:09:32,423 --> 00:09:35,855
They use their land as their 401.

147
00:09:35,855 --> 00:09:39,494
With this rule, a lot of that land,

148
00:09:39,494 --> 00:09:46,774
you're going to devalue it probably
anywhere from 50 to maybe 35, 40%.

149
00:09:46,774 --> 00:09:47,292
I agree.

150
00:09:48,476 --> 00:09:52,708
You're taking money out of their 401. Most
of you probably have a 401.

151
00:09:52,708 --> 00:09:56,820
If somebody came in and said, well, we're
going to change the rules,

152
00:09:56,820 --> 00:09:59,964
30% of your 401 disappeared, I think you'd
be upset.

153
00:09:59,964 --> 00:10:03,713
So I'm looking at this from their point of
view and what they—

154
00:10:03,713 --> 00:10:07,401
what they were going to do with it. I
think it's a good idea.

155
00:10:07,401 --> 00:10:12,178
Not everybody, or not all the farmers in
this community are going to sell their

156
00:10:12,178 --> 00:10:12,419
this community are going to sell their
land

157
00:10:12,419 --> 00:10:17,317
or develop their land, but a lot of it
will be. We can look at Williamson County.

158
00:10:17,317 --> 00:10:20,098
I used to have customers all over that
county.

159
00:10:20,098 --> 00:10:23,121
Today all of those farms are covered up in
houses.

160
00:10:23,121 --> 00:10:25,842
So at some point, 20, 30 years down the
road,

161
00:10:25,842 --> 00:10:30,196
there will be a lot of land in this county
that right now you say, well,

162
00:10:30,196 --> 00:10:34,670
that will never be developed. But it
probably will be if growth continues.

163
00:10:34,670 --> 00:10:39,568
So that's the perspective that I had on
this. Appreciate your time and attention.

164
00:10:39,568 --> 00:10:42,893
I appreciate your work on this project.
Thank you, sir.

165
00:10:42,893 --> 00:10:47,367
We appreciate that very much. You still
had a minute left. Good job. Okay.

166
00:10:47,367 --> 00:10:52,023
Let's see here. Reset. Clear. And the next
person I've got up is Seth Howell.

167
00:10:52,023 --> 00:10:55,711
Come on up. Please state your name, the
district you live in.

168
00:10:55,711 --> 00:11:00,306
And sir, you will have 3 minutes as well.
Seth Howell. I live in District 9.

169
00:11:00,306 --> 00:11:04,720
I'm a resident of Columbia. I've lived in
Middle Tennessee my whole life.

170
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,836
My wife— I grew up in Murfreesboro.

171
00:11:06,836 --> 00:11:11,674
My wife is from Columbia, and we chose to
raise our 4 kids here in Maury County.

172
00:11:11,674 --> 00:11:14,092
Professionally, I'm a local homebuilder.

173
00:11:14,092 --> 00:11:17,659
My company builds around 10 homes per year
in Maury County.

174
00:11:17,659 --> 00:11:20,078
As a local resident and a local builder,

175
00:11:20,078 --> 00:11:24,855
I have no desire to see more national
production homebuilder neighborhoods such

176
00:11:24,855 --> 00:11:24,975
production homebuilder neighborhoods such
as

177
00:11:24,975 --> 00:11:27,213
Drumright off the side of Highway 31.

178
00:11:27,213 --> 00:11:32,231
But those are in city limits and they're
not within the jurisdiction of the county.

179
00:11:32,231 --> 00:11:35,436
That must be solved in the city limits
jurisdictions.

180
00:11:35,436 --> 00:11:40,152
This proposed land use change does nothing
to stop those national homebuilders

181
00:11:40,152 --> 00:11:44,868
because they don't have any interest in
building in the county on 1-acre lots.

182
00:11:44,868 --> 00:11:49,705
But it does hurt local builders such as
myself and the families that we work for

183
00:11:49,705 --> 00:11:49,886
myself and the families that we work for
who

184
00:11:49,886 --> 00:11:54,542
are looking for an alternative to these
production homebuilder neighborhoods.

185
00:11:54,542 --> 00:11:59,440
I want to clearly distinguish there's a
big difference between the local builders

186
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,430
and the national guys. I live here, I work
here, and I build here.

187
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:05,184
I reinvest in this community.

188
00:12:05,184 --> 00:12:06,877
In addition to homebuilding,

189
00:12:06,877 --> 00:12:10,988
I've recently restored a 139-year-old
building in downtown Columbia.

190
00:12:10,988 --> 00:12:15,039
I coach and sponsor sports teams. I'm
involved in our local church.

191
00:12:15,039 --> 00:12:16,611
donate to local charities.

192
00:12:16,611 --> 00:12:20,118
I'm invested in this community where the
big guys are not.

193
00:12:20,118 --> 00:12:25,016
My company specifically works on 1-acre
lot subdivisions so that we can provide a

194
00:12:25,016 --> 00:12:28,522
better alternative to what the national
guys are offering.

195
00:12:28,522 --> 00:12:33,118
Our main development is the Estates at
Prince Farms, located off Mooresville

196
00:12:33,118 --> 00:12:33,420
Prince Farms, located off Mooresville
Pike,

197
00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:35,597
uh, by— just past the bowling alley.

198
00:12:35,597 --> 00:12:39,285
If you have not driven through a 1-acre
subdivision recently,

199
00:12:39,285 --> 00:12:43,517
I encourage you to do so and see what a
1-acre subdivision looks like,

200
00:12:43,517 --> 00:12:46,238
because we build a beautiful product and,
uh,

201
00:12:46,238 --> 00:12:48,899
I'd love for you to have a chance to see
it.

202
00:12:48,899 --> 00:12:53,615
I've sold 21 homes to 21 families in this
development in the last 2 and a half

203
00:12:53,615 --> 00:12:58,452
years. The first home I built in there was
for a widow who lived on 100 acres in

204
00:12:58,452 --> 00:13:03,349
Murray County. Her husband unfortunately
passed away and she was not able to take

205
00:13:03,349 --> 00:13:04,921
care of that farm anymore.

206
00:13:04,921 --> 00:13:09,093
She did not want to be forced into a
quarter-acre lot from a national

207
00:13:09,093 --> 00:13:09,819
quarter-acre lot from a national
homebuilder.

208
00:13:09,819 --> 00:13:12,479
She did not want the upkeep of a 5-acre
lot.

209
00:13:12,479 --> 00:13:15,261
So she chose to build with us on a 1-acre
lot.

210
00:13:15,261 --> 00:13:18,828
We have various other families who are
young professionals,

211
00:13:18,828 --> 00:13:22,032
young families with children. I've got
empty nesters.

212
00:13:22,032 --> 00:13:24,995
I've got several other widows in addition
to her.

213
00:13:24,995 --> 00:13:29,590
Their story is that they wanted a space to
not be on top of their neighbors.

214
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:34,246
They, most of them actually looked at
5-acre lots and decided it was too much

215
00:13:34,246 --> 00:13:34,609
5-acre lots and decided it was too much
upkeep

216
00:13:34,609 --> 00:13:39,446
for them. They decided that they would
rather spend their nights and weekends at

217
00:13:39,446 --> 00:13:44,222
baseball, soccer games with their kids and
grandkids, at recitals, at concerts,

218
00:13:44,222 --> 00:13:47,427
at church and other fun events, spend time
traveling,

219
00:13:47,427 --> 00:13:51,599
making memories with their families. And
when they saw what a 5-acre—

220
00:13:51,599 --> 00:13:51,840
What?

221
00:13:52,306 --> 00:13:56,559
parcel did. They did not want the
maintenance that that required.

222
00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:57,934
5 acres can be great,

223
00:13:57,934 --> 00:14:03,430
but I've got 21 families that I've worked
with directly who decided that 5 acres was

224
00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:07,815
not for them. They wanted a 1-acre lot.
That was what was for them.

225
00:14:07,815 --> 00:14:12,984
If people want larger lots, that's great.
They have that right and that choice.

226
00:14:12,984 --> 00:14:17,957
I just ask that we don't take away the
choice from the 21 families that I've

227
00:14:17,957 --> 00:14:18,350
choice from the 21 families that I've
worked

228
00:14:18,350 --> 00:14:23,192
with to live on a 1-acre lot. On the
money. All right, good job. Good job.

229
00:14:23,192 --> 00:14:27,642
Okay guys, uh, next one up is going to be
Dave Townsend. Come on up.

230
00:14:27,642 --> 00:14:29,736
You're the next contestant, sir.

231
00:14:29,736 --> 00:14:33,990
Tell us your name and your district and
we'll give you 3 minutes.

232
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:38,505
Hi, I'm Dave Townsend. I'm in District 6,
2354 Harlan Road, Columbia.

233
00:14:38,505 --> 00:14:43,674
I was here last time and there were some
things I wanted to readdress because I

234
00:14:43,674 --> 00:14:45,703
think they're really important.

235
00:14:45,703 --> 00:14:51,069
First off, I lived for 17 years in Oaklake
Estates, which is a 1-acre Subdivision.

236
00:14:51,069 --> 00:14:53,752
Everybody has those in that neighborhood.

237
00:14:53,752 --> 00:14:57,089
It's— few lots are a little bit larger
than others.

238
00:14:57,089 --> 00:15:02,062
We were on a little cul-de-sac, and at one
point while we were living there,

239
00:15:02,062 --> 00:15:07,559
there were 13 children who played together
on that little cul-de-sac of about 4 or 5

240
00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:12,205
homes. That's what you get with a 1-acre
development. You get families.

241
00:15:12,205 --> 00:15:16,262
You get people in that neighborhood who
care about each other,

242
00:15:16,262 --> 00:15:21,170
who hang out with each other. That is what
Murray County needs for culture.

243
00:15:21,170 --> 00:15:25,423
We need people who care about the other
person who's next to you.

244
00:15:25,423 --> 00:15:30,527
5-acre lots are great too. I'm now on 7
acres, so I've seen both perspectives.

245
00:15:30,527 --> 00:15:34,127
We don't see our neighbors hardly at all
at this point.

246
00:15:34,127 --> 00:15:36,090
Sometimes that's a good thing.

247
00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:38,445
Maybe you don't like your neighbors,

248
00:15:38,445 --> 00:15:43,288
but other times maybe you do want to hang
out with them a little bit more,

249
00:15:43,288 --> 00:15:47,476
get to know them better. 1-acre lots are
about perfect for that.

250
00:15:47,476 --> 00:15:49,373
I'm also a real estate agent,

251
00:15:49,373 --> 00:15:54,543
and I have taken people out to properties
They'll look at a 5-acre lot and say,

252
00:15:54,543 --> 00:15:55,983
this is just too much.

253
00:15:55,983 --> 00:15:59,713
Sometimes they'll look at a 1-acre lot and
say, you know,

254
00:15:59,713 --> 00:16:04,948
I need a little bit more than that. You've
got to have some sort of flexibility.

255
00:16:04,948 --> 00:16:09,528
The 1-acre option is really the maximum
flexibility that you can have.

256
00:16:09,528 --> 00:16:13,651
I spoke a lot last time about the terrain,
the soil conditions.

257
00:16:13,651 --> 00:16:18,493
Those are really, really important to
consider because if we don't look at

258
00:16:18,493 --> 00:16:18,886
consider because if we don't look at
those,

259
00:16:18,886 --> 00:16:22,550
you're going to make limitations that you
didn't intend.

260
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:26,869
There'll be unintended consequences of
making 5-acre lot minimums.

261
00:16:26,869 --> 00:16:31,057
The economics are another thing that I'm
really concerned about.

262
00:16:31,057 --> 00:16:35,376
Right now, home affordability is hard for
first-time buyers. Okay?

263
00:16:35,376 --> 00:16:39,826
A first-time buyer home right now is
probably in the $400,000 range,

264
00:16:39,826 --> 00:16:41,200
which is crazy to me.

265
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,425
If you go to a 5-acre lot minimum,

266
00:16:43,425 --> 00:16:48,529
You are pushing your home prices on those
lots to being upwards of $1 million,

267
00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:50,623
probably more like $1.5 million.

268
00:16:50,623 --> 00:16:56,120
And those are not going to be local Murray
County people buying those in most cases.

269
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,849
They're going to be people from out of
state, California,

270
00:16:59,849 --> 00:17:04,954
other areas who have the money because
they've sold really high-end properties

271
00:17:04,954 --> 00:17:05,150
they've sold really high-end properties
and

272
00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:06,851
moved over this direction.

273
00:17:06,851 --> 00:17:12,152
So what you would do with a 5-acre lot
would limit Murray County people from that

274
00:17:12,152 --> 00:17:16,405
step-up level of home where they're coming
from the starter home,

275
00:17:16,405 --> 00:17:21,575
moving up into the middle area where maybe
they want a little bit more space to

276
00:17:21,575 --> 00:17:24,323
garden, have a pool, whatever it might be.

277
00:17:24,323 --> 00:17:27,857
So I really, really want to put some
emphasis on that,

278
00:17:27,857 --> 00:17:32,961
that a 1-acre lot is much better for the
people of Murray County than a 5-acre

279
00:17:32,961 --> 00:17:38,392
space. What you get with 5 acres is a lot
of sprawl. You'll have people spread out.

280
00:17:38,392 --> 00:17:42,776
And you'll— you won't end up with
agriculture on those 5-acre lots.

281
00:17:42,776 --> 00:17:46,768
You'll end up with a person who builds 3
different buildings,

282
00:17:46,768 --> 00:17:51,676
a garage for 6 different cars, lots of
things like that. So here's my time.

283
00:17:51,676 --> 00:17:54,686
Thank you, sir. All right, let's see here.
No.

284
00:17:54,686 --> 00:17:59,528
All right, next person up is Damian
Prince. All right, thank you for that,

285
00:17:59,528 --> 00:17:59,790
Prince. All right, thank you for that,
sir.

286
00:17:59,790 --> 00:18:03,978
We appreciate you. Next person up is, um,
Court Pugh. C-O-U-R-T.

287
00:18:03,978 --> 00:18:07,054
Is that— did I say that right? Come on up,
sir.

288
00:18:07,054 --> 00:18:11,896
Tell us your name, your district, and
we'll give you 3 minutes. Thank you.

289
00:18:11,896 --> 00:18:15,102
I'm Court Pugh, 8035 Dry Creek Road,
District 10.

290
00:18:15,102 --> 00:18:20,403
I want to thank y'all for spending y'all's
time in this endeavor to help mold the

291
00:18:20,403 --> 00:18:22,039
vision for Marion County.

292
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,638
I come to you tonight as a landowner, a
business owner,

293
00:18:25,638 --> 00:18:31,069
and a father of young men that hopefully
soon one of these days will move out of my

294
00:18:31,069 --> 00:18:34,864
house and not live in my basement for the
rest of my life.

295
00:18:34,864 --> 00:18:37,351
And I hope they move and live locally.

296
00:18:37,351 --> 00:18:41,343
I purchased some land in southern Marion
County where I live,

297
00:18:41,343 --> 00:18:46,709
and with anticipations that maybe I could
split off some property in the future to

298
00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:50,111
be able to give my kids a place to to
build or live.

299
00:18:50,111 --> 00:18:55,281
But in anticipation that this may be
considered a 5-acre minimum in the future,

300
00:18:55,281 --> 00:18:56,982
you limit my availability,

301
00:18:56,982 --> 00:19:02,283
my rights as a property owner to be able
to split my property off and provide for

302
00:19:02,283 --> 00:19:02,414
to split my property off and provide for
my

303
00:19:02,414 --> 00:19:07,649
kids maybe, or to split it off and just
sell it for money myself if I wanted to.

304
00:19:07,649 --> 00:19:11,444
And it shouldn't be the landowner's
responsibility or the—

305
00:19:11,444 --> 00:19:15,567
for the blanket county just to be Forced
into that 5-acre rule.

306
00:19:15,567 --> 00:19:20,801
The, the landowner should be able to keep
what he has when he purchased it, and,

307
00:19:20,801 --> 00:19:25,709
and if he wants to put it in a more
restrictive regulation, he could do so.

308
00:19:25,709 --> 00:19:30,486
But I shouldn't be forced to put my
property into a more restrictive, uh,

309
00:19:30,486 --> 00:19:35,329
than what I— when I purchased it. Um, and
I hear a lot about urban sprawl.

310
00:19:35,329 --> 00:19:39,189
I'm a land surveyor. Uh, I talk to people
daily. Thank you.

311
00:19:39,189 --> 00:19:44,097
And I see it, and I see a lot of people
talk about it, but a lot, you know,

312
00:19:44,097 --> 00:19:47,434
I look at the tax maps daily, multiple
times a day,

313
00:19:47,434 --> 00:19:51,688
and I see the majority of it in the maps
that y'all have created.

314
00:19:51,688 --> 00:19:55,549
You'll see there are very large parcels
along the highways.

315
00:19:55,549 --> 00:19:59,017
There's, you know, 1 to 5 acre lots up and
down them.

316
00:19:59,017 --> 00:20:03,009
But for the most part, outside that,
you're very large farms,

317
00:20:03,009 --> 00:20:04,514
very large timberlands.

318
00:20:04,514 --> 00:20:09,552
But the density that everybody keeps
pointing at seems to be on the outskirts

319
00:20:09,552 --> 00:20:09,945
pointing at seems to be on the outskirts
of the

320
00:20:09,945 --> 00:20:12,693
city limits. of these large home builders.

321
00:20:12,693 --> 00:20:18,059
But one thing I will point out about the
dense populated home builder developments

322
00:20:18,059 --> 00:20:22,116
that are in the city, if it's not for
those, the demands here,

323
00:20:22,116 --> 00:20:25,912
people are going to move to the city or
county either way.

324
00:20:25,912 --> 00:20:28,856
If it wasn't for those dense populated
areas,

325
00:20:28,856 --> 00:20:34,026
those same people are going to disperse
into the county and it would spread out

326
00:20:34,026 --> 00:20:34,288
into the county and it would spread out
even

327
00:20:34,288 --> 00:20:36,185
more than what we've got now.

328
00:20:36,185 --> 00:20:40,766
So Uh, and as a small, uh, business owner,
like I said, land surveyor,

329
00:20:40,766 --> 00:20:43,253
I talked to grandfathers, mothers, uh,

330
00:20:43,253 --> 00:20:47,571
fathers that want to split off a piece of
property for their kids,

331
00:20:47,571 --> 00:20:50,712
and you have to tell them about the
regulations,

332
00:20:50,712 --> 00:20:55,097
and they already feel burdened by the
things that are going on now.

333
00:20:55,097 --> 00:21:00,266
And if we throw them into this 5-acre
rule, uh, you're gonna see a lot of land—

334
00:21:00,266 --> 00:21:05,501
landowners and taxpayers that are gonna be
burdened a great deal more than to be

335
00:21:05,501 --> 00:21:10,082
asked to rezone. And I'm not even sure
they'd be able to rezone it if,

336
00:21:10,082 --> 00:21:12,307
if that's available in the future.

337
00:21:12,307 --> 00:21:16,691
But, uh, I'm all for small, small amounts
of regulation to prevent—

338
00:21:16,691 --> 00:21:21,468
to protect the welfare of our communities.
But I'm even more for freedom.

339
00:21:21,468 --> 00:21:25,263
And I may not always like what someone
does on their land,

340
00:21:25,263 --> 00:21:30,433
but I'll fight every day for them because
we still got freedom in this country,

341
00:21:30,433 --> 00:21:35,537
and freedom should stand for something.
Thank you, sir. We appreciate you very

342
00:21:35,537 --> 00:21:35,864
Thank you, sir. We appreciate you very
much.

343
00:21:35,864 --> 00:21:40,379
Well, All right, next person up, Mr.
Randall Shaw. Good evening, sir.

344
00:21:40,379 --> 00:21:45,025
Tell us your name and your district, and
you'll have 3 minutes as well.

345
00:21:45,025 --> 00:21:49,148
Randall Shaw, 113 Nashville Highway. I
think that's District 1.

346
00:21:49,148 --> 00:21:54,579
I believe you're right. I've been a local
developer-builder here for over 30 years.

347
00:21:54,579 --> 00:21:56,870
We employ approximately 100 people.

348
00:21:56,870 --> 00:22:01,319
And we have done that successfully, like I
said, for about 30 years.

349
00:22:01,319 --> 00:22:06,489
We operate exclusively in 1 acre or less.
Right now everything we do is 1 acre.

350
00:22:06,489 --> 00:22:11,004
There is not a market out there, given
what we do, for 5-acre tracts.

351
00:22:11,004 --> 00:22:12,575
We can't make that work.

352
00:22:12,575 --> 00:22:16,763
The cost of that and the desire of people
coming in here To buy.

353
00:22:16,763 --> 00:22:19,707
And these are not people coming in here
that—

354
00:22:19,707 --> 00:22:23,306
these people coming in have a lot of
disposable income.

355
00:22:23,306 --> 00:22:26,513
And those, if you're going to add to this
county,

356
00:22:26,513 --> 00:22:31,617
you have to have that mix of people too
that want to spend money at your local

357
00:22:31,617 --> 00:22:34,169
businesses and keep them in force also.

358
00:22:34,169 --> 00:22:38,619
But if we go to 5-acre tracts and we do
away with the 1-acre tracts,

359
00:22:38,619 --> 00:22:41,629
you're effectively putting us out of
business.

360
00:22:41,629 --> 00:22:42,937
You know, there's a—

361
00:22:42,937 --> 00:22:48,042
there's 100 people right there that are
not going to have jobs that are local,

362
00:22:48,042 --> 00:22:51,052
that are local, spend money locally every
day.

363
00:22:51,052 --> 00:22:54,716
The problems that we're having in this
county right now,

364
00:22:54,716 --> 00:22:58,381
the perceived problems that we have, come
from the city.

365
00:22:58,381 --> 00:23:00,475
They don't come from the county.

366
00:23:00,475 --> 00:23:04,466
In the county last year, there were about
200 permits pulled.

367
00:23:04,466 --> 00:23:08,654
32 of those came out of county
subdivisions. 21 of them were us.

368
00:23:08,654 --> 00:23:13,497
So those other permits were either
individuals pulling their own permit to

369
00:23:13,497 --> 00:23:13,824
individuals pulling their own permit to
build

370
00:23:13,824 --> 00:23:19,059
their house or a contractor pulling a
permit for an individual to build a house.

371
00:23:19,059 --> 00:23:22,069
Now, the majority of those are not on 5
acres.

372
00:23:22,069 --> 00:23:24,254
Yeah.

373
00:23:24,254 --> 00:23:27,554
People coming in here do not want 5 acres.
An acre.

374
00:23:27,554 --> 00:23:31,760
If you show them what 5 acres look like,
they go into conniption.

375
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,025
You know, they— and when they look,

376
00:23:34,025 --> 00:23:39,072
you know how many people we have look at
an acre of ground and say, how big is

377
00:23:39,072 --> 00:23:39,395
an acre of ground and say, how big is
this?

378
00:23:39,395 --> 00:23:44,507
You know, those same 1-acre buyers came
looking for 5, but they couldn't afford

379
00:23:44,507 --> 00:23:44,701
looking for 5, but they couldn't afford
it,

380
00:23:44,701 --> 00:23:49,360
first of all. Then they had to start
looking at what they could actually

381
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:49,942
looking at what they could actually
maintain.

382
00:23:49,942 --> 00:23:52,530
So the problem is, is not in the county.

383
00:23:52,530 --> 00:23:56,930
You have enough legislation already to
control growth in the county.

384
00:23:56,930 --> 00:24:01,977
And I know the overwhelming sentiment is
they don't want Culeoaka to look like

385
00:24:01,977 --> 00:24:04,372
Neapolis. That's not going to happen.

386
00:24:04,372 --> 00:24:07,995
These big box boys operate where there's
infrastructure.

387
00:24:07,995 --> 00:24:10,389
There's not infrastructure out there,

388
00:24:10,389 --> 00:24:13,948
and there's never going to be
infrastructure out there.

389
00:24:13,948 --> 00:24:18,348
You've also taken that issue away when you
took away half-acre lots.

390
00:24:18,348 --> 00:24:22,101
Just for kicks, how many people live on
more than 5 acres?

391
00:24:22,101 --> 00:24:27,083
Okay, I think that's pretty representative
of what the public is saying also.

392
00:24:27,083 --> 00:24:32,260
Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. And next
person, I apologize with the name here.

393
00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:36,660
Is it Branda? Brenda? Okay, okay, come on
up. You're next. You good?

394
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:40,542
I know my handwriting is terrible. That's
all right, friend.

395
00:24:40,542 --> 00:24:45,848
All right, give us your name and you'll
have 3 minutes, sir. Uh, Brandon Frierson.

396
00:24:45,848 --> 00:24:50,054
Uh, I live on 1036 Peyton Place here in
Columbia, um, District 9.

397
00:24:50,054 --> 00:24:54,518
Um, I will share that sentiment from the
Prince family and from Seth.

398
00:24:54,518 --> 00:24:57,818
Uh, I come from a family— I've lived here
41 years.

399
00:24:57,818 --> 00:25:01,895
I come from my first house me and the wife
built was Old South.

400
00:25:01,895 --> 00:25:05,065
It was a tract build. You had a
quarter-acre lot.

401
00:25:05,065 --> 00:25:07,654
Me and the wife wanted something bigger.

402
00:25:07,654 --> 00:25:12,054
We needed something a little bit better,
but we didn't want 5 acres.

403
00:25:12,054 --> 00:25:16,777
And so, Seth, I've talked to Sam and
talked with his wife about what they

404
00:25:16,777 --> 00:25:17,165
talked with his wife about what they
built,

405
00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:20,789
but Seth offered a product, 1 acre. It's
perfect for us.

406
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:22,730
I'm not trying to be a farmer.

407
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:27,777
If it was on a 5-acre tract, we probably
wouldn't be able to build that house.

408
00:25:27,777 --> 00:25:31,983
But what Seth has done in Prince Farms has
been wonderful for us.

409
00:25:31,983 --> 00:25:36,707
We've been able to We've been able to
bring in my mother, you know, whose

410
00:25:36,707 --> 00:25:37,224
bring in my mother, you know, whose
ailment—

411
00:25:37,224 --> 00:25:40,524
she has dementia and diabetes. We take
care of her.

412
00:25:40,524 --> 00:25:42,659
We've been able to put in a pool.

413
00:25:42,659 --> 00:25:46,477
We've been able to raise our— raise the
rest of our family.

414
00:25:46,477 --> 00:25:50,877
My oldest daughter is 22 years old. She's
graduated college at MTSU.

415
00:25:50,877 --> 00:25:54,630
Our youngest daughter is 14, 15, goes to
Columbia Academy.

416
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:58,577
So we've been able to build what we call
our retirement home.

417
00:25:58,577 --> 00:26:03,365
That would not have been possible without
the ability to buy a 1-acre lot,

418
00:26:03,365 --> 00:26:07,830
because coming from somebody— I used to
pay somebody to cut my grass.

419
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:08,020
Right.

420
00:26:08,153 --> 00:26:12,197
But now I want to go out. I actually enjoy
cutting my own grass.

421
00:26:12,197 --> 00:26:16,431
I got a zero-turn lawnmower and done all
the things that, you know,

422
00:26:16,431 --> 00:26:19,211
that a dad would like to do with their
yard.

423
00:26:19,211 --> 00:26:23,445
But at the end of the day, that's, you
know, if it was 5 acres, we,

424
00:26:23,445 --> 00:26:28,500
we would have never looked at it because
it's not something that would have been

425
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:33,492
manageable for us and what I do for a
living as far as taking care of my family

426
00:26:33,492 --> 00:26:33,618
living as far as taking care of my family
in

427
00:26:33,618 --> 00:26:37,157
the long term. And Seth and the Prince
family, you know,

428
00:26:37,157 --> 00:26:42,338
being able to sell that land to Seth and
Seth being able to develop it and provide

429
00:26:42,338 --> 00:26:42,401
Seth being able to develop it and provide
a

430
00:26:42,401 --> 00:26:46,635
product that It's close enough to the
city, but it's right outside.

431
00:26:46,635 --> 00:26:50,553
You know, we got enough space where I can
wave at my neighbor,

432
00:26:50,553 --> 00:26:53,649
but I don't actually want to talk to my
neighbor.

433
00:26:53,649 --> 00:26:56,366
But I come from a— I come from Spring
Hill.

434
00:26:56,366 --> 00:27:01,295
You know, we built the house back in 2014,
uh, up there, and it was like that.

435
00:27:01,295 --> 00:27:04,707
Like, you could sneeze and your neighbor
will hear it.

436
00:27:04,707 --> 00:27:08,941
But now I can go take out my trash, and
it's close enough where we,

437
00:27:08,941 --> 00:27:10,584
where we can get together,

438
00:27:10,584 --> 00:27:14,564
but it's far enough away where I can still
have my own privacy.

439
00:27:14,564 --> 00:27:19,746
So I urge you guys to really think about
that and think think about the people who

440
00:27:19,746 --> 00:27:21,326
have been here, you know,

441
00:27:21,326 --> 00:27:26,065
for 41-plus years like myself and really
enjoy a 1-acre lot. Now, 1 acre is

442
00:27:26,065 --> 00:27:26,570
enjoy a 1-acre lot. Now, 1 acre is
perfect.

443
00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:29,224
Now that I got 1 acre, maybe I could do 2.

444
00:27:29,224 --> 00:27:30,867
But at the end of the day,

445
00:27:30,867 --> 00:27:35,606
I think 5 will be too much for families
that are trying to expand and get a

446
00:27:35,606 --> 00:27:39,145
retirement home or get a little bit more
land for their,

447
00:27:39,145 --> 00:27:43,884
for their family and for themselves. I
appreciate you guys. Thank you guys.

448
00:27:43,884 --> 00:27:48,876
Thank you, sir. Appreciate you very much.
Get this reset. Next person up is Mr.

449
00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:50,898
Bart Watley. Come on up, friend.

450
00:27:50,898 --> 00:27:55,132
Tell us your name, your district, and you
will have 3 minutes, sir.

451
00:27:55,132 --> 00:27:59,618
I gotta admit, before he starts, I'm
pleased at the attendance tonight.

452
00:27:59,618 --> 00:28:04,484
It's good to see a full room tonight, so
I'm glad y'all are here. Mr. Watley.

453
00:28:04,484 --> 00:28:09,033
My name is Bart Watley. I'm in District 9,
Cuyahoga. I'm a builder also.

454
00:28:09,033 --> 00:28:13,077
I heard some of the builders speak and I
can identify with them.

455
00:28:13,077 --> 00:28:15,668
And when I first moved to Sheepneck Road,

456
00:28:15,668 --> 00:28:19,712
I purchased 85 acres and I was able to
sell 1 acre by the rules.

457
00:28:19,712 --> 00:28:23,693
And then— so what I did is— no, I sold 6
acres and that person—

458
00:28:23,693 --> 00:28:25,905
and divided up an acre off of that.

459
00:28:25,905 --> 00:28:29,001
So I was able to build 2 homes Right by my
house.

460
00:28:29,001 --> 00:28:31,402
So I can identify with those builders,

461
00:28:31,402 --> 00:28:36,015
especially when you need a job coming to
Tennessee and nobody knowing me.

462
00:28:36,015 --> 00:28:41,007
The problem I have with 5-acre lots is
that you're going to see these driveways

463
00:28:41,007 --> 00:28:42,397
every 100 to 300 feet.

464
00:28:42,397 --> 00:28:46,567
I don't know if you do flag lots or not,
but now you did— used to.

465
00:28:46,567 --> 00:28:51,054
And I hate to see that in a rural area
taking up all the road frontage,

466
00:28:51,054 --> 00:28:55,667
which happens to be Most of the time seem
like some of the best farmland.

467
00:28:55,667 --> 00:28:57,562
I just don't like to see that.

468
00:28:57,562 --> 00:29:02,365
Now, some— I love for somebody that wants
to buy a 5-acre lot, that's great.

469
00:29:02,365 --> 00:29:03,944
But just don't make them.

470
00:29:03,944 --> 00:29:06,851
Now, on the other hand, if it's a
subdivision,

471
00:29:06,851 --> 00:29:12,033
I want it to be in an area that has the
infrastructure and the planning to support

472
00:29:12,033 --> 00:29:15,192
it. And above all, the consensus of the
community.

473
00:29:15,192 --> 00:29:15,337
Thank you.

474
00:29:16,267 --> 00:29:18,172
That's what I would like.

475
00:29:18,172 --> 00:29:24,040
So I want to think real long and hard
about the 5-acre thing because when you

476
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:24,345
about the 5-acre thing because when you
take

477
00:29:24,345 --> 00:29:29,832
a— you're wasting land like one gentleman
just got through talking here.

478
00:29:29,832 --> 00:29:31,356
You're wasting land.

479
00:29:31,356 --> 00:29:35,700
Somebody don't want 5 acres, but they got
to get 5 acres,

480
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:38,672
and then they let the rest do whatever,

481
00:29:38,672 --> 00:29:43,016
and it can be some of the best farmland in
Murray County.

482
00:29:43,016 --> 00:29:47,131
I think that's a good point. That's why I
oppose that.

483
00:29:47,131 --> 00:29:51,551
But I'm all for somebody that wants 5
acres. That's great.

484
00:29:51,551 --> 00:29:57,267
But I just don't like to see 5 acres, flag
lot, 100 feet, another 300 feet,

485
00:29:57,267 --> 00:30:03,592
and then maybe 100 feet, and just tear up
a whole 1,000 feet deep or whatever farm,

486
00:30:03,592 --> 00:30:06,717
some of the best farmland in the country.

487
00:30:06,717 --> 00:30:12,966
I'd like to see it remain pastoral and And
I'd like the subdivisions to be planned

488
00:30:12,966 --> 00:30:18,758
with one entrance, if that's legal, one
entrance, and have real good access.

489
00:30:18,758 --> 00:30:24,245
And above all, I'd like to see that it has
a consensus of the community.

490
00:30:24,245 --> 00:30:27,598
And I understand when somebody buys a
place,

491
00:30:27,598 --> 00:30:32,704
they need to read the rules in the zoning.
So— because I'm all for—

492
00:30:32,704 --> 00:30:32,801
Yes.

493
00:30:33,030 --> 00:30:35,110
freedom for the people to buy land.

494
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:38,141
If they planned on putting— dividing their
land up,

495
00:30:38,141 --> 00:30:42,419
then it bothers me that you got to tell
them now you can't divide it up.

496
00:30:42,419 --> 00:30:46,282
So you've got your job ahead of you, try
to make everybody happy.

497
00:30:46,282 --> 00:30:50,798
But I hope we preserve the pastoral effect
of the rural Caleoche. Thank you.

498
00:30:50,798 --> 00:30:54,482
Thank you, Mr. Watley. All right, I'm
going to reset it again.

499
00:30:54,482 --> 00:30:57,573
Uh, the next person up is Jordan Rowden.
Come on up.

500
00:30:57,573 --> 00:31:02,029
And tell us your name and district,
please. And you'll have 3 minutes, sir.

501
00:31:02,029 --> 00:31:05,773
Well, it's for the record. You're doing it
for the record here.

502
00:31:05,773 --> 00:31:09,161
Jordan Rudden, 3900 Cambridge Court,
District 9, Caleoca.

503
00:31:09,161 --> 00:31:13,083
First of all, I want to start by bringing
forward that I actually—

504
00:31:13,083 --> 00:31:17,361
I think this project is a potentially
amazing project that can be really

505
00:31:17,361 --> 00:31:17,955
amazing project that can be really
beneficial

506
00:31:17,955 --> 00:31:20,095
for the county if it's properly run,

507
00:31:20,095 --> 00:31:24,195
if we have really good quality
deliverables and objects and artifacts

508
00:31:24,195 --> 00:31:24,908
deliverables and objects and artifacts
that we get.

509
00:31:24,908 --> 00:31:28,058
And of course, those things end up
getting, you know,

510
00:31:28,058 --> 00:31:30,791
approved and implemented and people follow
it.

511
00:31:30,791 --> 00:31:35,129
There's a really great recipe here for it
to be fantastic for the county.

512
00:31:35,129 --> 00:31:39,764
To that end, I would say we're a wee bit
behind the curve when it comes from a

513
00:31:39,764 --> 00:31:41,547
project management standpoint.

514
00:31:41,547 --> 00:31:45,469
I think this was originally planned to be
about a 9-month project.

515
00:31:45,469 --> 00:31:48,203
I think we're past that now or right up at
it.

516
00:31:48,203 --> 00:31:51,115
And we're not even past Phase 2, I don't
believe.

517
00:31:51,115 --> 00:31:55,690
And we're now up against a building
moratorium that is kind That is basically

518
00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:56,047
moratorium that is kind That is basically
ending

519
00:31:56,047 --> 00:31:58,424
in October. So I'm not pointing fingers.

520
00:31:58,424 --> 00:32:03,119
I'm just curious what can this group do
with the help of the consulting firm to

521
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:03,356
with the help of the consulting firm to
help

522
00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:07,873
make sure this gets back on track and
finished over the edge in a timely way

523
00:32:07,873 --> 00:32:08,110
finished over the edge in a timely way
with

524
00:32:08,110 --> 00:32:12,805
quality? Second, I'd be curious what
controls can be put in place between y'all

525
00:32:12,805 --> 00:32:12,983
controls can be put in place between y'all
and

526
00:32:12,983 --> 00:32:17,915
the consulting firm to make sure that the
deliverables that are contracted for with

527
00:32:17,915 --> 00:32:20,292
the consulting firm are of high quality?

528
00:32:20,292 --> 00:32:24,214
There are some quality concerns in the
Phase 1 summary, all right,

529
00:32:24,214 --> 00:32:28,315
that do beg the question, first of all,
did anybody actually read it,

530
00:32:28,315 --> 00:32:30,930
or did it just get tossed up on the
website?

531
00:32:30,930 --> 00:32:33,544
But really, like, what do you all do to
vet,

532
00:32:33,544 --> 00:32:38,477
or what does somebody do to vet what comes
and gets delivered contractually to make

533
00:32:38,477 --> 00:32:42,517
sure it meets the requirements, it's of
high quality and usefulness?

534
00:32:42,517 --> 00:32:46,024
If you want more information on that, I
can share it later.

535
00:32:46,024 --> 00:32:49,292
And then, like, I'm on a 1-acre lot, a
little bit more.

536
00:32:49,292 --> 00:32:52,679
I live in an old established subdivision
down in Culebra.

537
00:32:52,679 --> 00:32:56,245
We have the double cul-de-sacs and kids
running. It's great.

538
00:32:56,245 --> 00:33:01,058
We were looking for 4 and 5 acres when we
were first looking and ended up running

539
00:33:01,058 --> 00:33:04,802
into the subdivision and falling in love
with the neighborhood.

540
00:33:04,802 --> 00:33:07,476
And the neighbors are phenomenal. It's
quiet.

541
00:33:07,476 --> 00:33:10,507
There's like 4 LEOs in the neighborhood.
It's safe.

542
00:33:10,507 --> 00:33:14,666
I probably wouldn't change it for the
world. And yes, 1 acre is a lot.

543
00:33:14,666 --> 00:33:17,281
There is— there are folks I think that
have—

544
00:33:17,281 --> 00:33:22,035
there's a lot of folks tonight that are
like, hey, no 5-acre lots, minimums that

545
00:33:22,035 --> 00:33:22,213
like, hey, no 5-acre lots, minimums that
is.

546
00:33:22,213 --> 00:33:25,066
Uh, there are also folks that probably are
like,

547
00:33:25,066 --> 00:33:27,799
we would be really great if that could
happen.

548
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:31,662
There's probably some great mechanism in
between there somewhere.

549
00:33:31,662 --> 00:33:33,148
Thinking outside the box,

550
00:33:33,148 --> 00:33:37,605
there might be an opportunity for dynamic
zoning sizes of the, of the lots.

551
00:33:37,605 --> 00:33:42,121
The further away you get from, for
example, the urban growth plan zones, uh,

552
00:33:42,121 --> 00:33:43,844
the urban growth zone things,

553
00:33:43,844 --> 00:33:47,529
that might be an approach where just the
further away you get,

554
00:33:47,529 --> 00:33:51,213
the larger lot minimums get. Just think
outside the box a bit.

555
00:33:51,213 --> 00:33:56,026
And again, to our, our chairman over here,
no, you don't make the final decision,

556
00:33:56,026 --> 00:34:00,483
but you are deciding what gets brought
before the group that gets the final

557
00:34:00,483 --> 00:34:05,416
decision. So take that seriously. I know
you are, but please consider that. Thanks.

558
00:34:05,416 --> 00:34:08,149
All right, thank you, sir. We appreciate
that.

559
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:12,131
Uh, the next person up— let me get reset
here— and Chris Grambling,

560
00:34:12,131 --> 00:34:16,587
you have 3 minutes. Come on up and tell us
who you are, where you live, uh,

561
00:34:16,587 --> 00:34:21,401
district, and we'll give you Thank you.
Chris Gramling, District 9 in Sheep Neck.

562
00:34:21,401 --> 00:34:25,026
I prepared some comments I'm going to read
in a, in a second,

563
00:34:25,026 --> 00:34:28,473
but I wanted to address some things that
were said before.

564
00:34:28,473 --> 00:34:30,671
First, I think that Pater is spot on,

565
00:34:30,671 --> 00:34:35,247
and I think we all know last time we were
here we've got a problem with data.

566
00:34:35,247 --> 00:34:37,624
We need to get those maps, the overlays.

567
00:34:37,624 --> 00:34:42,497
I suggested that we get the We need to get
the greenbelt stuff figured out somehow

568
00:34:42,497 --> 00:34:46,122
to overlay that. I agree with Peter that
we need to drill in.

569
00:34:46,122 --> 00:34:47,607
And I think additionally,

570
00:34:47,607 --> 00:34:52,302
we do need to talk to the neighbors and
get some feedback from the communities.

571
00:34:52,302 --> 00:34:56,997
From day one, I have said that I am not
for any sort of homogenization of Maury

572
00:34:56,997 --> 00:35:01,156
County through a 5-acre minimum, a 1-acre
minimum, a 100-acre minimum.

573
00:35:01,156 --> 00:35:02,642
None of that makes sense.

574
00:35:02,642 --> 00:35:02,995
I agree with you.

575
00:35:03,092 --> 00:35:07,824
As you drive around the county, each area
has its own character,

576
00:35:07,824 --> 00:35:12,408
and I think we need to stick with that as
a guiding principle.

577
00:35:12,408 --> 00:35:14,035
Also, I don't know Mr.

578
00:35:14,035 --> 00:35:16,696
Howell, but I've driven through his—

579
00:35:16,696 --> 00:35:22,907
through this site that he's talking about
on the advice of Dave Townsend after I met

580
00:35:22,907 --> 00:35:27,861
with Dave, and I agree with them. That is
a good use of that space.

581
00:35:27,861 --> 00:35:32,888
It's It's in— it's just from a location
perspective, it makes sense.

582
00:35:32,888 --> 00:35:37,325
However, I would disagree with some of the
other statements.

583
00:35:37,325 --> 00:35:41,909
For instance, this idea that the utilities
will never get out.

584
00:35:41,909 --> 00:35:46,567
I'm in the most remote southeast part of
the county in Kalioka.

585
00:35:46,567 --> 00:35:50,263
If we didn't fight tooth and nail, that
developer,

586
00:35:50,263 --> 00:35:55,439
in the course of illegally subdividing
land, which I can say publicly—

587
00:35:55,439 --> 00:35:55,599
Mm-hmm.

588
00:35:56,048 --> 00:35:58,672
Now, he was on his way to bring water out.

589
00:35:58,672 --> 00:36:02,982
You know, we look at— I'm not sure if
Double Branch is in the county,

590
00:36:02,982 --> 00:36:05,606
but Double Branch, as of today, right now,

591
00:36:05,606 --> 00:36:08,605
they still don't have that 12-inch pipe
running.

592
00:36:08,605 --> 00:36:13,352
And they hammered with a 60-some-odd
thousand-pound excavator through all of

593
00:36:13,352 --> 00:36:13,602
thousand-pound excavator through all of
that

594
00:36:13,602 --> 00:36:18,038
rock. So they will go to lengths to get
that stuff out. Anyway, enough.

595
00:36:18,038 --> 00:36:21,036
Let me try and get through these prepared
notes.

596
00:36:21,036 --> 00:36:26,221
I keep hearing agricultural preservation
portrayed as an attack on property rights.

597
00:36:26,221 --> 00:36:28,408
But property rights are reciprocal.

598
00:36:28,408 --> 00:36:29,782
When I bought my farm,

599
00:36:29,782 --> 00:36:33,718
I didn't choose it based only on what was
inside my fence line.

600
00:36:33,718 --> 00:36:36,342
I deliberately chose an agricultural area.

601
00:36:36,342 --> 00:36:41,402
I invested my money and my life there in
reliance on the established character of

602
00:36:41,402 --> 00:36:46,400
the surrounding community. My neighbor
absolutely has property rights, but so do

603
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:46,524
absolutely has property rights, but so do
I.

604
00:36:46,524 --> 00:36:48,524
If I own land upstream from you,

605
00:36:48,524 --> 00:36:53,396
my property rights don't give me an
unlimited right to alter the water flowing

606
00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:53,646
unlimited right to alter the water flowing
onto

607
00:36:53,646 --> 00:36:57,957
your property. and then dismiss your
concerns by saying it's my land.

608
00:36:57,957 --> 00:37:02,704
We recognize that one person's use of
property can profoundly affect another

609
00:37:02,704 --> 00:37:06,328
person's property. The same principle
applies to land use.

610
00:37:06,328 --> 00:37:10,451
I'm going to run out of time here, so I'll
pick up the rest later.

611
00:37:10,451 --> 00:37:15,448
Thank you very much. Yep. All right. Thank
you. We have 2 more people signed up.

612
00:37:15,448 --> 00:37:19,634
Let me get this reset. All right. Lee, is
it Borkoff? Mark Borkoff?

613
00:37:19,898 --> 00:37:20,267
I'll pass.

614
00:37:20,267 --> 00:37:23,467
You pass? All right, next person up then
is Ryan Dugger.

615
00:37:23,467 --> 00:37:28,209
Ryan, come on up, give us your name, your
district, and you'll have 3 minutes, sir.

616
00:37:28,209 --> 00:37:30,095
Ryan Dugger, I'm from District 6.

617
00:37:30,095 --> 00:37:33,923
I want to start off with saying that this
is deeply personal to me.

618
00:37:33,923 --> 00:37:38,265
My family has been in Murray County since
before Murray County was a county,

619
00:37:38,265 --> 00:37:40,780
when it was still part of Williamson
County.

620
00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:45,522
I saw actually on Facebook yesterday where
my 4th great-grandfather traded some I'm

621
00:37:45,522 --> 00:37:46,950
a 4th generation rancher.

622
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:51,407
My father bought some prime agricultural
land in Santa Fe for a Shetland pony.

623
00:37:51,407 --> 00:37:55,750
So my family's been here since they were
making stupid land deals back then.

624
00:37:55,750 --> 00:38:00,378
Part of the statute in dealing with this
requires you all to reflect the county's

625
00:38:00,378 --> 00:38:04,492
duty to manage natural resources and to
manage and control urban growth,

626
00:38:04,492 --> 00:38:08,777
taking into account the impact to
agricultural lands, forests, recreational

627
00:38:08,777 --> 00:38:09,120
agricultural lands, forests, recreational
areas,

628
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,834
and wildlife management areas.

629
00:38:10,834 --> 00:38:15,005
So I don't think it's important just
purely to focus on random, you know,

630
00:38:15,005 --> 00:38:16,548
5-acre lots or 1-acre lots.

631
00:38:16,548 --> 00:38:21,119
I think you also just need to factor in
the wilderness or agricultural land that

632
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:21,233
the wilderness or agricultural land that
we

633
00:38:21,233 --> 00:38:25,347
have. I don't have a lot to say on the
5-acre minimum or 1-acre minimum,

634
00:38:25,347 --> 00:38:29,233
to be quite frank. I didn't know that was
a part of this till today.

635
00:38:29,233 --> 00:38:31,347
I only learned of this meeting today.

636
00:38:31,347 --> 00:38:35,918
But I would say if you adopt a 5-acre
minimum, I'm certainly on board with that.

637
00:38:35,918 --> 00:38:40,660
I'm sure there's some mechanism that could
be placed where we've heard most of the,

638
00:38:40,660 --> 00:38:42,774
um, we've heard from some developers,

639
00:38:42,774 --> 00:38:46,431
but we've also heard from other property
owners that they would,

640
00:38:46,431 --> 00:38:49,060
if they wanted to give property to their
kids,

641
00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:52,659
they wouldn't want to be stuck or locked
into a 5-acre minimum.

642
00:38:52,659 --> 00:38:57,059
But I'm sure there could be some process
that allows them to divest property.

643
00:38:57,059 --> 00:39:01,401
If you're divesting to someone in your
family to potentially help with that.

644
00:39:01,401 --> 00:39:06,144
Um, the main thing I want to talk about is
In relation to the urban growth of Santa

645
00:39:06,144 --> 00:39:08,601
Fe and this Highway 7 corridor, I think
we—

646
00:39:08,601 --> 00:39:12,886
there was a post on Facebook today asking
the community's thoughts on that.

647
00:39:12,886 --> 00:39:17,400
There were over 200 responses. Every
single one was, no, we don't support this.

648
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,943
There was not one single yes in the entire
over 200 responses.

649
00:39:20,943 --> 00:39:23,000
So I think that's telling in itself.

650
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,371
Historically, every time boards at the
county get together,

651
00:39:26,371 --> 00:39:30,656
Throughout my entire life, there's
conversations about developing Santa Fe,

652
00:39:30,656 --> 00:39:33,627
bigger subdivisions, anything like that,
businesses.

653
00:39:33,627 --> 00:39:36,827
Overwhelmingly, Santa Fe unites and says
absolutely not.

654
00:39:36,827 --> 00:39:41,512
So I would just ask for you to consider
that, um, in making that decision as well.

655
00:39:41,512 --> 00:39:45,683
Further in supporting that, we don't have
the infrastructure in Santa Fe,

656
00:39:45,683 --> 00:39:48,426
and part of it is planned infrastructure
change.

657
00:39:48,426 --> 00:39:52,826
But if at this point in 2026, we can have
high-speed internet through grants,

658
00:39:52,826 --> 00:39:56,768
however, um, We still don't have city
water where I live in Santa Fe,

659
00:39:56,768 --> 00:40:00,482
then I don't think we need to consider
that an urban growth area.

660
00:40:00,482 --> 00:40:04,653
Um, I think if there's any issues with
1-acre lots or any other issues of

661
00:40:04,653 --> 00:40:07,624
subdivisions, they have the Board of
Zoning Appeals,

662
00:40:07,624 --> 00:40:12,024
which has always been an option for people
who want exceptions and variances.

663
00:40:12,024 --> 00:40:15,795
They have that option to still come
propose that just like before.

664
00:40:15,795 --> 00:40:17,338
I think that's a good body.

665
00:40:17,338 --> 00:40:21,337
I think that addresses most of the issues
that we've heard here today.

666
00:40:21,337 --> 00:40:24,023
So I think those are, uh— All right, very
good.

667
00:40:24,023 --> 00:40:28,594
All right, that was all that we had for
the public comment period for before the

668
00:40:28,594 --> 00:40:33,222
meeting, so we will have another public
comment period at the end of the meeting.

669
00:40:33,222 --> 00:40:36,708
I do have 3 people signed up if you want
to speak up to that.

670
00:40:36,708 --> 00:40:40,936
The list was brought up to me. We'll make
sure that you get added to that.

671
00:40:40,936 --> 00:40:43,507
All right, next item on the agenda is item
4.

672
00:40:43,507 --> 00:40:46,650
It's the approval of the September 24th
meeting agenda.

673
00:40:46,650 --> 00:40:48,364
I need a motion to approve it.

674
00:40:48,364 --> 00:40:52,249
Before we do that, we're going to make—
uh, having a Motion here to—

675
00:40:52,249 --> 00:40:56,934
we're going to remove item 5, and that was
an alternate proposal by Dustin Kittle,

676
00:40:56,934 --> 00:40:59,963
and basically what has happened with that
is that Mr.

677
00:40:59,963 --> 00:41:02,648
Kittle— excuse me, guys, I'm sorry— is
that Mr.

678
00:41:02,648 --> 00:41:06,019
Kittle— pardon me, excuse me, sorry about
that, forgive me—

679
00:41:06,019 --> 00:41:09,448
had asked to be on the agenda to make an
alternate proposal,

680
00:41:09,448 --> 00:41:14,133
and after that was put on the agenda, some
other persons had reached out and said,

681
00:41:14,133 --> 00:41:16,247
hey, well, why can't we do that also?

682
00:41:16,247 --> 00:41:20,475
So, we made the decision— I made the
decision to pull both of them, all of

683
00:41:20,475 --> 00:41:20,761
decision to pull both of them, all of
them,

684
00:41:20,761 --> 00:41:23,104
and so we're going to do that next month,

685
00:41:23,104 --> 00:41:26,132
so the agenda that you'll be approving
will be minus—

686
00:41:26,132 --> 00:41:29,903
what's on your list you have in front of
you will be minus Item 5,

687
00:41:29,903 --> 00:41:34,588
the proposals from Dustin Kittle. We will
hear any alternate proposals next month.

688
00:41:34,588 --> 00:41:38,302
That said, I need a motion to approve. I
have it from Ms. Notley.

689
00:41:38,302 --> 00:41:39,388
Do I have a second?

690
00:41:39,388 --> 00:41:39,805
Second.

691
00:41:39,805 --> 00:41:43,989
I have a second from Sam over here. Any
discussion on the agenda?

692
00:41:43,989 --> 00:41:46,177
Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

693
00:41:46,177 --> 00:41:46,978
Aye.

694
00:41:46,978 --> 00:41:50,630
Any opposed? All right, that passes. Thank
you for that.

695
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:54,347
Next item on the agenda is the product
update discussion,

696
00:41:54,347 --> 00:41:57,608
so we will turn the floor over to our
consultants.

697
00:41:57,608 --> 00:42:02,564
Also, I want to introduce Robert here in
case anybody's not met this Robert.

698
00:42:02,564 --> 00:42:06,476
Uh, Robert number 1 left, and you're
Robert number 2, right?

699
00:42:06,476 --> 00:42:08,954
So you are— you got to hit the button.

700
00:42:08,954 --> 00:42:14,171
Uh, tell us, tell us 5 seconds who you are
and what you're doing with the county

701
00:42:14,171 --> 00:42:18,736
right now. Hello, my name is Matthew
Pfeiffer. Matthew, I said Robert.

702
00:42:18,736 --> 00:42:20,888
Robert number 2. Robert number 2.

703
00:42:20,888 --> 00:42:23,823
I am acting interim now that Robert has
left,

704
00:42:23,823 --> 00:42:28,453
and I'm working to facilitate continued
work at the Planning and Zoning

705
00:42:28,453 --> 00:42:29,170
work at the Planning and Zoning
Department.

706
00:42:29,170 --> 00:42:31,387
Well, we're glad to have you here,

707
00:42:31,387 --> 00:42:36,409
and we're glad that you're working with
Murray County, so thank you for doing

708
00:42:36,409 --> 00:42:36,735
Murray County, so thank you for doing
that.

709
00:42:36,735 --> 00:42:41,169
And you're helping out with the mics as
well, so we appreciate that.

710
00:42:41,169 --> 00:42:44,821
All right, uh, to our consultant. Good to
see you again.

711
00:42:44,821 --> 00:42:47,663
Yeah, thanks, and glad to be back.

712
00:42:47,663 --> 00:42:49,253
Yes, ma'am. Floor is yours.

713
00:42:49,253 --> 00:42:51,780
All right. Um, hello, everybody.

714
00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:58,177
So, um, I thought it would be helpful to
kind of start with just sort of a status

715
00:42:58,177 --> 00:43:03,232
update of where we're at kind of with the
overall project scope.

716
00:43:03,232 --> 00:43:09,155
Um, and so this is in your packet, but I
figured I'd go over it real quick.

717
00:43:09,155 --> 00:43:14,367
So, Phase 1, these were the scoped kind of
tasks and deliverables.

718
00:43:14,367 --> 00:43:16,895
All of these have been finished.

719
00:43:16,895 --> 00:43:18,869
We're happy to, you know,

720
00:43:18,869 --> 00:43:23,924
look again at the engagement summary and
make any edits to that.

721
00:43:23,924 --> 00:43:29,610
So, happy to do that too. For Phase 2,
this is where we're currently at.

722
00:43:29,610 --> 00:43:33,559
We have These first 3 bullets are all in
progress.

723
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:37,271
So the vision statement and goals and
policies,

724
00:43:37,271 --> 00:43:42,957
we're going to touch on that tonight along
with the future land use map.

725
00:43:42,957 --> 00:43:46,353
And then the fiscal analysis is in
process.

726
00:43:46,353 --> 00:43:51,091
Tishler Weiss is our firm that's doing
that fiscal analysis,

727
00:43:51,091 --> 00:43:57,251
and the plan is for that they would be
able to come to the next meeting and do

728
00:43:57,251 --> 00:43:57,567
able to come to the next meeting and do
kind

729
00:43:57,567 --> 00:43:58,831
of their update.

730
00:43:58,831 --> 00:43:58,975
Okay.

731
00:43:59,566 --> 00:44:04,465
of their findings at the next meeting. So
all of that is in process.

732
00:44:04,465 --> 00:44:10,444
From an engagement standpoint and meeting
standpoint, we have done everything from,

733
00:44:10,444 --> 00:44:14,262
you know, a scoped meeting standpoint for
this phase.

734
00:44:14,262 --> 00:44:17,143
Advisory Committee meeting 4 is tonight.

735
00:44:17,143 --> 00:44:21,249
So, you know, after this meeting, that
will be completed.

736
00:44:21,249 --> 00:44:26,724
So we've kind of— we've done all the
public engagement that we said we would

737
00:44:26,724 --> 00:44:26,940
public engagement that we said we would
for

738
00:44:26,940 --> 00:44:32,271
Phase 2. Okay. But we do still need to
wrap up those few big deliverables.

739
00:44:32,271 --> 00:44:37,458
Phase 3 will be essentially bringing it
all together, drafting the plan,

740
00:44:37,458 --> 00:44:43,077
putting it all together, putting that out
for public review, having, you know,

741
00:44:43,077 --> 00:44:46,103
you all review the draft plan, the public,

742
00:44:46,103 --> 00:44:49,560
and then taking it through the adoption
process.

743
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,306
So from a meeting standpoint, engagement
standpoint,

744
00:44:53,306 --> 00:44:57,701
with Phase We have 2 more scoped advisory
committee meetings.

745
00:44:57,701 --> 00:45:02,239
Currently thinking those would probably
line up in mid-October,

746
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,642
and then the next one, it's going to kind
of depend on the order of things,

747
00:45:07,642 --> 00:45:10,884
but probably one in October, one in
November.

748
00:45:10,884 --> 00:45:15,134
And then we will have one more big public
engagement event.

749
00:45:15,134 --> 00:45:17,799
I'm thinking, you know, based on Yes.

750
00:45:17,799 --> 00:45:21,762
Your all's feedback, kind of when we want
to have that,

751
00:45:21,762 --> 00:45:24,499
what we want that meeting to focus on,

752
00:45:24,499 --> 00:45:27,957
that can still be decided and discussed
tonight.

753
00:45:27,957 --> 00:45:33,792
But this kind of rough schedule is what I
was initially thinking is we would have

754
00:45:33,792 --> 00:45:38,042
kind of our next advisory committee
meeting in mid-October,

755
00:45:38,042 --> 00:45:43,013
hopefully followed by that public
engagement event in early November,

756
00:45:43,013 --> 00:45:47,839
with then hopefully another advisory
committee meeting in November,

757
00:45:47,839 --> 00:45:52,306
but with The holidays coming on, that just
complicates things.

758
00:45:52,306 --> 00:45:56,556
And so depending on how all that shakes
out, we could have—

759
00:45:56,556 --> 00:46:00,374
we could be ready to have a plan adopted
in December.

760
00:46:00,374 --> 00:46:03,688
But again, it just really depends on
meetings.

761
00:46:03,688 --> 00:46:09,019
So if we decide that not all of this is
necessary, we can speed things up.

762
00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:12,620
If we want to condense things, we can do
that too.

763
00:46:12,620 --> 00:46:17,447
But I want to make sure that we had time
in there for all of those.

764
00:46:17,447 --> 00:46:20,112
So from a kind of project standpoint,

765
00:46:20,112 --> 00:46:24,939
is there any questions on that or anything
else that you guys have?

766
00:46:24,939 --> 00:46:28,585
All right. Hit your lights if y'all want
to say something.

767
00:46:28,585 --> 00:46:31,665
Commissioner Strand, you're up. Thank you,
Chair.

768
00:46:31,665 --> 00:46:36,694
It looks like we're already going— we're
planning to work beyond the moratorium.

769
00:46:36,694 --> 00:46:38,266
That's a given then, huh?

770
00:46:38,266 --> 00:46:41,327
Yeah. Based on the last meeting—

771
00:46:41,327 --> 00:46:42,528
That's not an easy yeah.

772
00:46:42,528 --> 00:46:46,232
That's pretty major stuff, especially some
folks in the audience, I think.

773
00:46:46,232 --> 00:46:50,801
And I mean, and again, we can move as fast
as you want,

774
00:46:50,801 --> 00:46:56,034
but based on last month's decision, you
know, and conversation,

775
00:46:56,034 --> 00:47:00,852
we don't have a set direction for the
future land use map.

776
00:47:00,852 --> 00:47:07,830
And so then drafting a plan at this point,
I can, I can put all the pieces together,

777
00:47:07,830 --> 00:47:14,143
But without you all and the community
saying how you want to kind of address

778
00:47:14,143 --> 00:47:14,475
saying how you want to kind of address
this

779
00:47:14,475 --> 00:47:18,047
future land use framework, we can't
finish.

780
00:47:18,047 --> 00:47:23,218
I don't think there's any question that
we're not going to get done before October

781
00:47:23,218 --> 00:47:26,056
1st, regardless of how many meetings we
have.

782
00:47:26,056 --> 00:47:29,273
But I'm concerned about pushing out the
moratorium.

783
00:47:29,273 --> 00:47:32,300
Is it the plan to end the moratorium in
October,

784
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:35,138
or is it the plan to push the moratorium
out?

785
00:47:36,196 --> 00:47:37,759
That's outside of my scope.

786
00:47:37,759 --> 00:47:43,497
That's up to the county commission. Don't
sit there like you're so naive.

787
00:47:43,497 --> 00:47:48,842
Are we looking at pushing the moratorium
out? She can't answer that.

788
00:47:48,842 --> 00:47:50,571
She doesn't live here.

789
00:47:50,571 --> 00:47:54,008
I can answer that. The moratorium expires
of its own terms.

790
00:47:54,008 --> 00:47:58,318
So if the county commission wishes to
extend it, you can, but you have to—

791
00:47:58,318 --> 00:48:01,872
You can't extend it before October 1st
because it's a zoning.

792
00:48:01,872 --> 00:48:06,241
You have to follow the procedure that you
do, like a zoning text amendment.

793
00:48:06,241 --> 00:48:10,901
So it would have to go to the Planning
Commission for recommendation and then to

794
00:48:10,901 --> 00:48:11,075
Commission for recommendation and then to
the

795
00:48:11,075 --> 00:48:13,405
County Commission with a public hearing.

796
00:48:13,405 --> 00:48:17,133
So we could get it to the Planning
Commission in October, right?

797
00:48:17,133 --> 00:48:19,580
At the earliest, unless there's a special—

798
00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:21,498
Which is past the moratorium time.

799
00:48:21,498 --> 00:48:22,489
Yes, exactly.

800
00:48:22,489 --> 00:48:26,884
My point. Thank you. Is that all you have?

801
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:29,201
Okay.

802
00:48:29,331 --> 00:48:32,802
All right. Anybody else? All right. Seeing
no other lights, continue, please.

803
00:48:32,802 --> 00:48:38,530
Do you want me to just move on? So that's
the project update discussion, item 6.

804
00:48:38,530 --> 00:48:43,899
So moving on to item 7. Am I good to just
keep going? Go ahead, yeah. Okay.

805
00:48:43,899 --> 00:48:49,340
So item 7 on the agenda is kind of an
update on the vision statement, goals,

806
00:48:49,340 --> 00:48:52,920
and policies. So these have been presented
to you.

807
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:58,218
Now, you know, we reviewed them and
discussed them at a previous committee

808
00:48:58,218 --> 00:48:58,791
discussed them at a previous committee
meeting.

809
00:48:58,791 --> 00:49:03,659
They went out— they were part of the
second public engagement event.

810
00:49:03,659 --> 00:49:09,100
So these have been kind of presented,
revised based on that public feedback.

811
00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:14,756
I wasn't aware that the revised ones that
we made based on that public feedback

812
00:49:14,756 --> 00:49:17,262
hadn't been Sent around to you all.

813
00:49:17,262 --> 00:49:23,133
So we wanted to make sure that these got
in front of you and you guys have time to

814
00:49:23,133 --> 00:49:26,784
review those, digest them, provide me any
comments.

815
00:49:26,784 --> 00:49:29,791
So in your packets is, and on the website,

816
00:49:29,791 --> 00:49:35,518
is kind of our current draft of the vision
statement and the goals and policies.

817
00:49:35,518 --> 00:49:40,387
If anybody has any comments, I'm happy to
take, you know, take them.

818
00:49:40,387 --> 00:49:46,114
But I think this is the first time that
you guys are seeing kind of the the most

819
00:49:46,114 --> 00:49:50,195
final version of them. Again, these are
not final, final.

820
00:49:50,195 --> 00:49:53,202
Nothing's final until the plan is adopted.

821
00:49:53,202 --> 00:49:58,357
So if there are, you know, things that we
want to add, change, you know,

822
00:49:58,357 --> 00:50:00,290
that is all still possible.

823
00:50:00,290 --> 00:50:03,435
This was emailed to the entire committee?
The—

824
00:50:04,061 --> 00:50:05,649
all the divisions, yeah. It was part of—

825
00:50:05,649 --> 00:50:07,687
Because we got 5 of them not here tonight,
so.

826
00:50:07,687 --> 00:50:11,779
Yeah, it was part of the agenda packet,
and it's on the website.

827
00:50:11,779 --> 00:50:13,194
I thought I saw it, but I will make sure
it comes.

828
00:50:13,194 --> 00:50:17,364
Yeah. So those, again, that's nothing new
at this point,

829
00:50:17,364 --> 00:50:22,428
but I wanted to make sure that you all had
the most recent copies of

830
00:50:22,428 --> 00:50:23,322
all of that.

831
00:50:23,322 --> 00:50:25,570
All right. Any questions on that, guys?

832
00:50:27,824 --> 00:50:27,937
All right.

833
00:50:27,986 --> 00:50:29,683
Seeing none, go ahead. Okay.

834
00:50:31,850 --> 00:50:37,314
So then the big, you know, our big next
step and the big thing, you know,

835
00:50:37,314 --> 00:50:42,704
that we need to talk about as a group is
this future land use framework.

836
00:50:42,704 --> 00:50:48,767
And so we've gone through this kind of
evolution with the last public meeting and

837
00:50:48,767 --> 00:50:51,462
our last advisory committee meeting.

838
00:50:51,462 --> 00:50:56,477
And there's a lot of different directions
that we can go with this,

839
00:50:56,477 --> 00:51:02,166
but I think it's probably good to just
sort of start with a reminder of, you

840
00:51:02,166 --> 00:51:02,541
sort of start with a reminder of, you
know,

841
00:51:02,541 --> 00:51:07,855
that your future land use map and future
land use framework is a guide.

842
00:51:07,855 --> 00:51:12,796
It is a policy, you know, a guideline for
the community to follow.

843
00:51:12,796 --> 00:51:18,410
Any recommendation, anything that's
displayed in a future land use map does

844
00:51:18,410 --> 00:51:18,634
displayed in a future land use map does
not

845
00:51:18,634 --> 00:51:23,425
change zoning. It does not change, you
know, anything like that.

846
00:51:23,425 --> 00:51:29,114
But it is used then as kind of the
foundation for future zoning requests and

847
00:51:29,114 --> 00:51:34,579
changes. So we want to make sure that the
vision is accurately reflected.

848
00:51:34,579 --> 00:51:38,621
On this, that, you know, what the county
wants to see.

849
00:51:38,621 --> 00:51:40,193
And, you know, we're—

850
00:51:40,193 --> 00:51:46,181
we've heard a lot of mixed feedback based
on the public meetings and then in the

851
00:51:46,181 --> 00:51:50,897
meetings tonight of, you know, this 5-acre
or 1-acre, you know.

852
00:51:50,897 --> 00:51:52,469
And this is, I think,

853
00:51:52,469 --> 00:51:58,457
really where we're going to be stuck until
we can kind of figure out how you all

854
00:51:58,457 --> 00:52:02,649
want to move forward. Um, And kind of talk
through that.

855
00:52:02,649 --> 00:52:08,114
So I, at the last meeting, there was
requests for maps with more details,

856
00:52:08,114 --> 00:52:14,027
and we were kind of initially thinking of
having kind of meetings based to talk

857
00:52:14,027 --> 00:52:15,674
about different areas.

858
00:52:15,674 --> 00:52:19,492
But with that changing, we created
countywide maps,

859
00:52:19,492 --> 00:52:24,208
which then kind of reduced the amount of
information we put on.

860
00:52:24,208 --> 00:52:27,426
Each map to make them visible and
readable.

861
00:52:27,426 --> 00:52:31,768
And so those were all sent to you and also
on the website.

862
00:52:31,768 --> 00:52:37,158
So we have maps that— let's see—
floodplain, topography, the future land

863
00:52:37,158 --> 00:52:37,457
floodplain, topography, the future land
use,

864
00:52:37,457 --> 00:52:42,173
the draft that we have right now,
roadways, the prime farmland,

865
00:52:42,173 --> 00:52:47,488
which is based on soils, and then the
existing urban growth boundaries.

866
00:52:47,488 --> 00:52:52,428
So That is the information that we have
from a mapping standpoint.

867
00:52:52,428 --> 00:52:57,892
If there's any information that we want to
layer on any certain property,

868
00:52:57,892 --> 00:52:59,464
I'm happy to do that.

869
00:52:59,464 --> 00:53:05,603
But we can't put all of that information
on one map or else it would be unreadable

870
00:53:05,603 --> 00:53:07,100
at the county level.

871
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:13,088
But if we go down to like parcel level,
obviously then we can get more detailed,

872
00:53:13,088 --> 00:53:16,232
but we can't do that for the whole county.

873
00:53:16,232 --> 00:53:20,958
Well, I want to piggyback a little bit on
what Mr. Jensen was saying earlier.

874
00:53:20,958 --> 00:53:23,106
You know, we need that GIS mapping,

875
00:53:23,106 --> 00:53:26,728
and I can say something now that I
couldn't say last month.

876
00:53:26,728 --> 00:53:29,122
I'm no longer on the County Commission,

877
00:53:29,122 --> 00:53:32,620
so I'd like to encourage the County
Commission, you know,

878
00:53:32,620 --> 00:53:37,469
y'all need to have the discussion about
GIS mapping and the cost in doing that.

879
00:53:37,469 --> 00:53:41,029
You know, we've got it, we've got the
capability, I think,

880
00:53:41,029 --> 00:53:43,791
but we have to get licensing for more
layers.

881
00:53:43,791 --> 00:53:46,615
I'm not fully versed on what we actually
have,

882
00:53:46,615 --> 00:53:51,218
but I think that we need to do that
because We need that information, those

883
00:53:51,218 --> 00:53:51,648
because We need that information, those
layers,

884
00:53:51,648 --> 00:53:55,576
and there's a complete layer here that was
completely forgotten,

885
00:53:55,576 --> 00:54:00,363
and I was just reminded about it, and
that's the industrial development areas,

886
00:54:00,363 --> 00:54:05,274
the I-65 corridors. What pieces of that
area is going to be where we attract the

887
00:54:05,274 --> 00:54:08,956
industry to come? The 412, the Bear Creek
Pike, those areas,

888
00:54:08,956 --> 00:54:13,683
and they need to be tagged, and then
that's what's going to be, you know, for

889
00:54:13,683 --> 00:54:13,928
that's what's going to be, you know, for
the—

890
00:54:13,928 --> 00:54:18,532
you know, I've been talking about
Convention centers or commerce, you know,

891
00:54:18,532 --> 00:54:21,171
or tourism, agri-centers, things like
that.

892
00:54:21,171 --> 00:54:24,854
So we need to— that needs to be a layer of
that map as well.

893
00:54:24,854 --> 00:54:27,125
But we need to get that layering now.

894
00:54:27,125 --> 00:54:32,035
And I don't know what the pricing on that
would be, but I would like to see the—

895
00:54:32,035 --> 00:54:35,227
Commissioner Strand, since you're on this
committee,

896
00:54:35,227 --> 00:54:39,830
if you could get maybe the budget
committee or some of the budget office to

897
00:54:39,830 --> 00:54:40,076
committee or some of the budget office to
look

898
00:54:40,076 --> 00:54:43,881
into that and see about doing that,
because we need that data.

899
00:54:43,881 --> 00:54:46,029
And, you know, and it's invaluable,

900
00:54:46,029 --> 00:54:50,326
the layers that are there that can tell
you anything you want to know.

901
00:54:50,326 --> 00:54:53,395
And you don't have to have it on a piece
of paper.

902
00:54:53,395 --> 00:54:56,955
You do it digitally and you peel back.
It's like an onion.

903
00:54:56,955 --> 00:55:01,129
You just peel back the layers and look at
what you want or stack it.

904
00:55:01,129 --> 00:55:05,977
But we definitely need to have marked
those industrial areas, commerce, retail,

905
00:55:05,977 --> 00:55:10,520
what's going to go in. You know, we have
no effect on the city whatsoever.

906
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,307
And that's a lot of the problem that we've
got is the shell shock of everybody

907
00:55:15,307 --> 00:55:20,279
looking at what happened on 31 in Neapolis
and all that. And we're like, oh, wow.

908
00:55:20,279 --> 00:55:24,084
But that's the city of Columbia and we
have no say whatsoever.

909
00:55:24,084 --> 00:55:29,179
Anything that happens with the county has
no jurisdiction whatsoever with the city,

910
00:55:29,179 --> 00:55:33,782
but we've got areas in the county, you
know, most of it is not in the city.

911
00:55:33,782 --> 00:55:38,386
And so those industrial areas along the
interstate corridor, 412, you know,

912
00:55:38,386 --> 00:55:43,296
Highway 50, we need to, we need to know
what they're going to be and what, what,

913
00:55:43,296 --> 00:55:46,119
what they're going to be going for the
future,

914
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:49,372
because industry is what's going to
employ, you know,

915
00:55:49,372 --> 00:55:53,669
the next generations that come along. So
what are we bringing in here?

916
00:55:53,669 --> 00:55:57,659
And, and maybe Travis can help with that,
getting that, you know,

917
00:55:57,659 --> 00:56:02,753
find out about some GIS layers that, that
information that they might have as well.

918
00:56:02,753 --> 00:56:07,541
But that's my 2 cents worth. Anybody else?
Uh, let's see. Uh, James, go ahead.

919
00:56:07,541 --> 00:56:12,144
So I've had this conversation recently
with, with folks about this, uh, um,

920
00:56:12,144 --> 00:56:17,116
growth boundary map, and I do agree that
it needs to be refined a little tighter.

921
00:56:17,116 --> 00:56:21,535
I'm going to piggyback off what Mr. Duggar
said about the Santa Fe area.

922
00:56:21,535 --> 00:56:24,481
You can see on this map that's available
online,

923
00:56:24,481 --> 00:56:27,243
it's like this draft was done September
15th.

924
00:56:27,243 --> 00:56:32,153
There's a whole corridor of growth all the
way up through Santa Fe that honestly

925
00:56:32,153 --> 00:56:34,486
that community, it doesn't want there.

926
00:56:34,486 --> 00:56:38,353
So we need to be mindful of the main
arteries in Murray County,

927
00:56:38,353 --> 00:56:43,079
but we also need to make sure we're
finding that balance of what people want.

928
00:56:43,079 --> 00:56:47,989
And, you know, I keep hearing the same
keywords: agriculture, natural resources,

929
00:56:47,989 --> 00:56:51,795
the scenic, I guess, rural environment of
rural Murray County.

930
00:56:51,795 --> 00:56:54,741
That's something special that cannot be
ignored,

931
00:56:54,741 --> 00:56:57,748
and I hope it's not ignored through this
process.

932
00:56:57,748 --> 00:57:00,817
The other thing I want to talk about a
little bit,

933
00:57:00,817 --> 00:57:03,825
since we've heard a lot about it tonight,
is the—

934
00:57:03,825 --> 00:57:07,262
and I guess this is the appropriate time
to bring it up—

935
00:57:07,262 --> 00:57:10,086
but the whole 1-acre versus 5-acre
discussion.

936
00:57:10,086 --> 00:57:14,566
That's a difficult pill to swallow,
whichever side of the coin you're on.

937
00:57:14,566 --> 00:57:19,292
And I'm still a little bit struggling with
the idea of the 1 versus 5 myself,

938
00:57:19,292 --> 00:57:20,766
and I want to elaborate.

939
00:57:20,766 --> 00:57:25,062
And Christy, I may call on you to
elaborate on some of what Williamson

940
00:57:25,062 --> 00:57:25,676
elaborate on some of what Williamson
County has

941
00:57:25,676 --> 00:57:27,579
done in the past, if you could.

942
00:57:27,579 --> 00:57:31,507
But one conversation I had this week was
if we make 5-acre lots,

943
00:57:31,507 --> 00:57:36,172
we're going to have just a lot of really
big yards out in Murray County that

944
00:57:36,172 --> 00:57:36,601
big yards out in Murray County that
people,

945
00:57:36,601 --> 00:57:38,074
some don't take care of.

946
00:57:38,074 --> 00:57:41,819
I agree that many don't want a large
acreage to take care of,

947
00:57:41,819 --> 00:57:44,335
and 5 acres is not a huge parcel of land,

948
00:57:44,335 --> 00:57:47,465
but it is a substantial amount of area to
maintain.

949
00:57:47,465 --> 00:57:51,148
But on the other side of that coin, I was
given the example,

950
00:57:51,148 --> 00:57:56,181
say we've got a 500-acre farm somewhere in
Murray County that could potentially be

951
00:57:56,181 --> 00:57:57,654
developed down the road.

952
00:57:57,654 --> 00:58:01,644
Okay, and we've got a 1-acre— we've got
the 1-acre rule in place.

953
00:58:01,644 --> 00:58:05,449
That's, that's 500 houses in theory.
That's, that's 500 homes.

954
00:58:05,449 --> 00:58:07,352
That's 500 more people driving.

955
00:58:07,352 --> 00:58:11,710
Plus, you know, if it's a family unit,
it's going to be more than that.

956
00:58:11,710 --> 00:58:15,884
So it's adding that much more
infrastructure stress to our community

957
00:58:15,884 --> 00:58:16,498
infrastructure stress to our community
that those

958
00:58:16,498 --> 00:58:21,101
extra 500 homes could provide our
community versus If it was a 5-acre rule,

959
00:58:21,101 --> 00:58:23,372
you know, we're looking at 100 homes.

960
00:58:23,372 --> 00:58:27,239
So there's an economic impact on the
overall abuse on our land.

961
00:58:27,239 --> 00:58:31,351
And Christy, Williamson County does have
the 5-acre rule for their—

962
00:58:31,351 --> 00:58:34,420
can you elaborate on that, why they went
that way?

963
00:58:34,420 --> 00:58:36,691
Was it a fiscal reason for, you know,

964
00:58:36,691 --> 00:58:39,883
growing their school systems and roads and
all that?

965
00:58:39,883 --> 00:58:45,526
Well, not Not wishing to speak for the
entire county of Williamson County,

966
00:58:45,526 --> 00:58:48,576
but I was there for the the the process.

967
00:58:48,576 --> 00:58:54,524
And when the county Williamson County
updated its comprehensive land use plan,

968
00:58:54,524 --> 00:59:00,244
it was focusing on infrastructure. It was
focusing on the projected growth.

969
00:59:00,244 --> 00:59:05,734
And one of the things that Williamson
considered was the infrastructure.

970
00:59:05,734 --> 00:59:09,547
For density, at least in Williamson
County's plan,

971
00:59:09,547 --> 00:59:14,656
it should be in and around the cities
where that infrastructure is,

972
00:59:14,656 --> 00:59:20,375
hoping to reduce the reliance upon the
onsite wastewater systems out in the

973
00:59:20,375 --> 00:59:20,833
onsite wastewater systems out in the
county

974
00:59:20,833 --> 00:59:26,171
because the county in Williamson County
doesn't serve municipal sewer.

975
00:59:26,171 --> 00:59:26,316
Right.

976
00:59:26,316 --> 00:59:29,223
So if you develop out in the county in
Williamson County,

977
00:59:29,223 --> 00:59:33,049
you're either on individual septic systems
or the onsite wastewater system.

978
00:59:33,407 --> 00:59:33,856
The step systems.

979
00:59:33,856 --> 00:59:39,849
The step systems. And so some of the
language in the comprehensive plan in

980
00:59:39,849 --> 00:59:46,167
Williamson County was that density should
be in and around the municipalities.

981
00:59:46,167 --> 00:59:51,917
It also has some areas of growth in what
they call villages or hamlets,

982
00:59:51,917 --> 00:59:58,234
what are the traditional small-scale
community crossroads for some small-scale

983
00:59:58,234 --> 01:00:04,875
commercial. But the thought process was
That you could have that density closer to

984
01:00:04,875 --> 01:00:07,143
where the infrastructure is.

985
01:00:07,143 --> 01:00:13,703
And the fiscal analysis that was done in
with that plan showed that it would save

986
01:00:13,703 --> 01:00:20,426
the county money in terms of the cost of
road building and maintenance and the cost

987
01:00:20,426 --> 01:00:26,419
of schools, because schools would be
closer together instead of spread out

988
01:00:26,419 --> 01:00:27,148
closer together instead of spread out
where all

989
01:00:27,148 --> 01:00:33,141
the. density is. Williamson also focused
on maintaining a rural viewpoint,

990
01:00:33,141 --> 01:00:39,296
like a viewshed, with conservation
subdivisions so you can have smaller lots

991
01:00:39,296 --> 01:00:39,539
subdivisions so you can have smaller lots
but

992
01:00:39,539 --> 01:00:45,938
maintain the 5-acre density gross on the
property and fairly deep setbacks from

993
01:00:45,938 --> 01:00:49,987
existing county roads from a viewscape
standpoint.

994
01:00:49,987 --> 01:00:52,174
So, yeah, I mean, you know,

995
01:00:52,174 --> 01:00:58,086
I'm oversimplifying what's a fairly
detailed comprehensive land use plan,

996
01:00:58,086 --> 01:01:04,160
which is on the website if anyone wants to
read it. But that was the study.

997
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,562
And so part of it was the fiscal analysis.

998
01:01:07,562 --> 01:01:13,960
The other thing to remember is about half
of Williamson County had already been

999
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,823
5-acre lots since 1988.

1000
01:01:15,823 --> 01:01:16,096
Yes.

1001
01:01:16,722 --> 01:01:21,327
And so it was essentially taking the other
half on the other side of 65,

1002
01:01:21,327 --> 01:01:26,316
and a lot of that matching what had
already been 5 acres for many, many years.

1003
01:01:26,316 --> 01:01:30,154
So Williamson County was also able to kind
of look at, well,

1004
01:01:30,154 --> 01:01:32,393
here's how it's worked for so long.

1005
01:01:32,393 --> 01:01:36,103
And so had an idea of how it might work on
the other side.

1006
01:01:36,103 --> 01:01:40,196
So hopefully that is somewhat helpful. And
let me just be clear.

1007
01:01:40,196 --> 01:01:45,185
I've worked for Williamson County for a
long time and it's a privilege to also

1008
01:01:45,185 --> 01:01:45,441
long time and it's a privilege to also
help

1009
01:01:45,441 --> 01:01:49,855
here as best I can. I'm not trying to make
one like the other, right?

1010
01:01:49,855 --> 01:01:51,710
But because of my experience,

1011
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:55,611
sometimes I'm asked about how things have
gone in Williamson.

1012
01:01:55,611 --> 01:02:00,344
So I just want to make it clear to
everyone on TV, that's in the audience,

1013
01:02:00,344 --> 01:02:02,903
I'm not trying to make y'all Williamson.

1014
01:02:02,903 --> 01:02:06,933
But if someone asks me about my
experience, I'm happy to share.

1015
01:02:06,933 --> 01:02:09,747
And I'm here to kind of help you
facilitate,

1016
01:02:09,747 --> 01:02:13,521
get to your vision for Murray County for
the next 20 years.

1017
01:02:13,521 --> 01:02:16,591
So let me just make that clear for social
media.

1018
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:18,664
Thank you.

1019
01:02:18,763 --> 01:02:19,903
Hopefully that was helpful.

1020
01:02:19,903 --> 01:02:24,711
Well, thank you for that. That's kind of
what I needed to hear.

1021
01:02:24,711 --> 01:02:28,451
And this, this is just open conversation,
really,

1022
01:02:28,451 --> 01:02:33,336
but would a hybrid model And again, I'm
not advocating for this.

1023
01:02:33,336 --> 01:02:35,321
I'm just talking out loud.

1024
01:02:35,321 --> 01:02:40,969
What a hybrid model of maybe within a
certain extension of the city limits

1025
01:02:40,969 --> 01:02:41,503
certain extension of the city limits
outside

1026
01:02:41,503 --> 01:02:47,914
in the county, maybe a 1-acre lot minimum
up to a certain boundary outside to 5-acre

1027
01:02:47,914 --> 01:02:49,670
lots out in the county,

1028
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:55,623
would that be an absolute nightmare to
enforce or for the County Commission to

1029
01:02:55,623 --> 01:02:55,852
enforce or for the County Commission to
try

1030
01:02:55,852 --> 01:03:01,042
to implement? Is that off the table as an
idea? Get Kristin in here.

1031
01:03:01,042 --> 01:03:04,979
If you're asking me, I don't think any
ideas are off the table.

1032
01:03:04,979 --> 01:03:09,166
I mean, you have your identified urban
growth boundaries where you—

1033
01:03:09,166 --> 01:03:11,415
the cities intend to grow over time.

1034
01:03:11,415 --> 01:03:16,165
If you wanted to establish a certain
policy for the urban growth boundaries,

1035
01:03:16,165 --> 01:03:20,914
it would be for what those growth
boundaries are, even if they change in the

1036
01:03:20,914 --> 01:03:21,351
boundaries are, even if they change in the
future.

1037
01:03:21,351 --> 01:03:26,538
You know, if you all say you think there
should be a certain The look or density in

1038
01:03:26,538 --> 01:03:27,913
and around the cities.

1039
01:03:27,913 --> 01:03:29,850
And maybe you have a different—

1040
01:03:29,850 --> 01:03:35,036
maybe it's a gradation instead of just one
or the other like someone had suggested.

1041
01:03:35,036 --> 01:03:40,036
So that's all the conversation that you
all would have and what that looks like.

1042
01:03:40,036 --> 01:03:41,598
But the plan is a vision.

1043
01:03:41,598 --> 01:03:46,597
And so when the County Commission is then
asked to make rezoning decisions after

1044
01:03:46,597 --> 01:03:49,909
that, they would look to that as kind of a
guidepost.

1045
01:03:49,909 --> 01:03:55,446
Okay. Can we put our current map on the—
up on the screen?

1046
01:03:55,446 --> 01:03:56,698
Yeah.

1047
01:03:56,698 --> 01:04:01,255
What else you got, James? You know, this
is a— I've thought about this.

1048
01:04:01,255 --> 01:04:06,325
I've thought about this process all day
long, trying to find the common ground.

1049
01:04:06,325 --> 01:04:11,268
Because, you know, as some of our longtime
builders in the crowd have alluded

1050
01:04:11,268 --> 01:04:16,338
tonight, you know, they've invested in the
community and they bring jobs to the

1051
01:04:16,338 --> 01:04:20,253
community and they They bring worth to
Murray County as well,

1052
01:04:20,253 --> 01:04:22,564
and I don't want to disrespect that.

1053
01:04:22,564 --> 01:04:23,912
But I also, you know,

1054
01:04:23,912 --> 01:04:28,212
I'm up here to help advocate for
agriculture and farmers out there.

1055
01:04:28,212 --> 01:04:32,769
And, you know, they're sometimes the last
at the table to get a say-so.

1056
01:04:32,769 --> 01:04:37,326
And I know I'm up here just advocating for
those, for that demographic,

1057
01:04:37,326 --> 01:04:41,241
and trying to find some common ground here
with this process.

1058
01:04:41,241 --> 01:04:41,411
Thank you.

1059
01:04:42,484 --> 01:04:46,161
Is that all you got? All right, Sam,
you're up.

1060
01:04:46,161 --> 01:04:50,542
Um, I guess just speaking to some of that,
um, you know,

1061
01:04:50,542 --> 01:04:57,114
when they redid the zoning guidelines, and
Christy, you can speak to this, you know,

1062
01:04:57,114 --> 01:05:02,434
make sure I'm— but some of the things in
that Williamson County did,

1063
01:05:02,434 --> 01:05:08,614
our county commission has already made it
very clear that They don't want those

1064
01:05:08,614 --> 01:05:14,717
items in conservation neighborhoods, being
that, you know, and you'll have to—

1065
01:05:14,717 --> 01:05:19,958
is it net density versus gross density
from 1-acre minimums versus—

1066
01:05:19,958 --> 01:05:26,139
so I think that the, you know, I guess
that would be my first thought would be,

1067
01:05:26,139 --> 01:05:32,163
well, the governing body of this has
already said, well, we don't want those.

1068
01:05:32,244 --> 01:05:32,358
So—

1069
01:05:32,358 --> 01:05:34,720
I think that's a good point.

1070
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:41,469
Um, you know, those aren't currently in
our zoning, um, you know, framework, uh,

1071
01:05:41,469 --> 01:05:45,687
which— so I guess that would be a hurdle
to cross.

1072
01:05:45,687 --> 01:05:51,930
Um, and then, you know, as far as
Williamson versus, um, Murray, you know,

1073
01:05:51,930 --> 01:05:52,268
Williamson versus, um, Murray, you know,
the,

1074
01:05:52,268 --> 01:05:58,764
the guidelines for road construction are
completely different as well when it

1075
01:05:58,764 --> 01:05:59,523
comes to—

1076
01:05:59,523 --> 01:05:59,669
Yes.

1077
01:06:00,257 --> 01:06:05,570
Uh, we're required to do, uh, and I wish
Ken McKee was here tonight to,

1078
01:06:05,570 --> 01:06:09,685
to speak to that, but, you know, above and
beyond what,

1079
01:06:09,685 --> 01:06:15,297
what Williamson County requires for roads,
um, in that, uh, you know, some,

1080
01:06:15,297 --> 01:06:21,133
some neighborhoods can be without curb and
gutter and et cetera and et cetera.

1081
01:06:21,133 --> 01:06:27,268
Um, there's some different options that
they're allowed to do that we're currently

1082
01:06:27,268 --> 01:06:30,860
as development developers are not allowed
to do.

1083
01:06:30,860 --> 01:06:36,771
Um, You know, and then, you know, the
opting in and opting out, just to me, of—

1084
01:06:36,771 --> 01:06:40,512
and I heard somebody mention that today—
seems to—

1085
01:06:40,512 --> 01:06:43,879
could create lots of issues versus, you
know,

1086
01:06:43,879 --> 01:06:47,770
you could have somebody who's allowed to
do 5 acres,

1087
01:06:47,770 --> 01:06:53,831
somebody's allowed to do 1 acre, somebody
else allowed to do 5 acres, somebody's—

1088
01:06:53,831 --> 01:06:53,895
Right.

1089
01:06:53,970 --> 01:06:58,988
You know, lots of what they consider spot
zoning instead of, um, you know,

1090
01:06:58,988 --> 01:07:04,276
what I would consider what we've had for
years, just 1 acre of blanket zoning.

1091
01:07:04,276 --> 01:07:09,633
You know, I know that's changed over the
years with lot dimensions and this and

1092
01:07:09,633 --> 01:07:11,328
that. Flag lots, like Mr.

1093
01:07:11,328 --> 01:07:15,736
Watley was saying earlier, now they're,
they're not, or they are.

1094
01:07:15,736 --> 01:07:21,363
You know, I, I don't know that personally,
but, um, So I don't know that, you know,

1095
01:07:21,363 --> 01:07:24,618
how that fits in our community either, you
know.

1096
01:07:24,618 --> 01:07:29,704
I mean, because everywhere in Santa Fe,
half of them could say we, we want,

1097
01:07:29,704 --> 01:07:31,263
we want to keep 1 acre,

1098
01:07:31,263 --> 01:07:36,891
and then half of them could say we want 5
acres if we gave them a choice, you know.

1099
01:07:36,891 --> 01:07:42,383
I'm not saying we have the opportunity to
give them a choice or anybody a choice.

1100
01:07:42,383 --> 01:07:45,841
I don't, I, you know, I just want to, uh,
You know,

1101
01:07:45,841 --> 01:07:48,147
do what's right for the community.

1102
01:07:48,147 --> 01:07:53,842
But I guess what I'm saying is, you know,
I guess there's pros and cons to each way,

1103
01:07:53,842 --> 01:07:55,673
I guess is what I'm saying.

1104
01:07:55,673 --> 01:08:00,894
You know, I don't— you know, you go down
Highway 7 and then, you know, every—

1105
01:08:00,894 --> 01:08:06,115
you know, these 5 people can do 1 acre,
these 5 people can do 1 versus 5, you

1106
01:08:06,115 --> 01:08:06,454
these 5 people can do 1 versus 5, you
know.

1107
01:08:06,454 --> 01:08:11,879
So without the conservation opportunity,
who is— which has already been removed,

1108
01:08:11,879 --> 01:08:17,167
my understanding, You know, that, that
already removes some of those standards

1109
01:08:17,167 --> 01:08:17,506
already removes some of those standards
that,

1110
01:08:17,506 --> 01:08:22,727
you know, the neighbors to the north have
already done. So, yeah, absolutely.

1111
01:08:22,727 --> 01:08:23,948
You say something.

1112
01:08:23,948 --> 01:08:28,583
So on your— yes, the idea of conservation
subdivisions was presented a couple of

1113
01:08:28,583 --> 01:08:31,654
years ago when we were updating the zoning
ordinance.

1114
01:08:31,654 --> 01:08:36,232
And at that time it was determined the
county commission didn't want to go that

1115
01:08:36,232 --> 01:08:38,028
route. But in this process, If,

1116
01:08:38,028 --> 01:08:42,489
if you all as advisory committee and
ultimately the Planning Commission from—

1117
01:08:42,489 --> 01:08:47,009
if that looks like a good planning tool,
maybe that's a good planning tool in,

1118
01:08:47,009 --> 01:08:50,312
in a zone that's 5 acres but not in a 1
acre or whatever.

1119
01:08:50,312 --> 01:08:52,745
That's something that you would recommend.

1120
01:08:52,745 --> 01:08:57,323
That would be something that you all would
describe and recommend in your plan.

1121
01:08:57,323 --> 01:08:59,814
And because I assume once the plan is
done,

1122
01:08:59,814 --> 01:09:04,391
there will probably need to be zoning
changes, whether it's zoning map changes.

1123
01:09:04,391 --> 01:09:08,969
You know, you're hearing people say you
don't want driveways so close together.

1124
01:09:08,969 --> 01:09:13,372
Well, even if it's a 5-acre lot or parcel
that's not even subject to a plat,

1125
01:09:13,372 --> 01:09:18,008
you can still in your zoning say how far
apart you want driveways on your public

1126
01:09:18,008 --> 01:09:20,905
roads. So, you know, same with the road
standards.

1127
01:09:20,905 --> 01:09:25,019
If you're saying in 5-acre lot
subdivisions you're fine with, you know,

1128
01:09:25,019 --> 01:09:28,553
you don't necessarily need curb and gutter
or whatever, then—

1129
01:09:28,553 --> 01:09:30,176
I think that's a good point.

1130
01:09:30,176 --> 01:09:34,637
That would be a recommendation in your
plan because you're okay with how that

1131
01:09:34,637 --> 01:09:34,985
plan because you're okay with how that
looks,

1132
01:09:34,985 --> 01:09:39,446
which would then be translated into
amendments to your subregs, if that makes

1133
01:09:39,446 --> 01:09:39,794
amendments to your subregs, if that makes
sense.

1134
01:09:39,794 --> 01:09:40,147
Yeah.

1135
01:09:40,147 --> 01:09:43,550
So as part of the vision and the planning
discussion,

1136
01:09:43,550 --> 01:09:47,723
then if that's a vision or a look that is
ultimately in the plan,

1137
01:09:47,723 --> 01:09:53,052
then the County Commission could work to
revise the documents to match that vision.

1138
01:09:53,052 --> 01:09:58,188
That's helpful. I don't want you to feel
like everything's off the table because

1139
01:09:58,188 --> 01:10:00,307
it's already off the table. Sure.

1140
01:10:00,307 --> 01:10:05,636
That's something that's an option that you
would like to describe at this level and

1141
01:10:05,636 --> 01:10:07,369
then at the planning level.

1142
01:10:07,369 --> 01:10:09,926
So that I got.

1143
01:10:10,201 --> 01:10:10,638
Yes, sir.

1144
01:10:10,945 --> 01:10:13,295
Well, just one more thing.

1145
01:10:13,295 --> 01:10:18,537
And so in going over and beyond 5-acre
minimums, you know,

1146
01:10:18,537 --> 01:10:20,616
that's state-regulated.

1147
01:10:20,616 --> 01:10:26,039
We can't regulate anything further than
what state mandates,

1148
01:10:26,039 --> 01:10:27,485
is that correct?

1149
01:10:27,485 --> 01:10:32,368
Well, so that, that's another— it's
another topic that's been floating around.

1150
01:10:32,368 --> 01:10:37,252
Generally, if it's a 5-acre or greater
parcel on a public road and there's not

1151
01:10:37,252 --> 01:10:37,439
parcel on a public road and there's not
new

1152
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:39,192
roads or new infrastructure,

1153
01:10:39,192 --> 01:10:43,512
then that's an exempt lot and they can go
out and be created by deed.

1154
01:10:43,512 --> 01:10:46,705
All the little nuances of that comes from
case law.

1155
01:10:47,458 --> 01:10:47,651
Right.

1156
01:10:47,651 --> 01:10:52,193
So some might be subject to platting at
the Planning Commission and some might

1157
01:10:52,193 --> 01:10:52,426
the Planning Commission and some might
not.

1158
01:10:52,426 --> 01:10:54,290
It's a very fact-based analysis.

1159
01:10:54,290 --> 01:10:58,890
Generally, if it's a 5-acre or greater
parcel and it's already on a public road

1160
01:10:58,890 --> 01:10:59,065
parcel and it's already on a public road
and

1161
01:10:59,065 --> 01:11:02,908
doesn't require a road, it's probably not
going to require a plat.

1162
01:11:02,908 --> 01:11:06,460
But sometimes because of infrastructure
that has to serve it,

1163
01:11:06,460 --> 01:11:10,595
it would kick it into a plat that has to
go to the Planning Commission.

1164
01:11:12,668 --> 01:11:19,170
Gotcha. But there wouldn't be an
opportunity for, as an advisory committee,

1165
01:11:19,170 --> 01:11:22,897
to say, well, we want to do that, you
know,

1166
01:11:22,897 --> 01:11:26,365
everybody here has to be a 15-acre plot.

1167
01:11:26,365 --> 01:11:32,627
If the county chose to create a zone of
15-acre lots and the county saw that it

1168
01:11:32,627 --> 01:11:32,944
15-acre lots and the county saw that it
was—

1169
01:11:32,944 --> 01:11:38,810
there was a good reason to do so and
support Supported that decision, yes,

1170
01:11:38,810 --> 01:11:40,395
the county could do—

1171
01:11:40,395 --> 01:11:45,547
the county could do 50-acre lots if it's
supportable for reasons,

1172
01:11:45,547 --> 01:11:47,132
if that makes sense.

1173
01:11:47,132 --> 01:11:51,254
Because you have to— if you're going to
change that,

1174
01:11:51,254 --> 01:11:57,199
that nuance to people's property rights,
it's got to be supportable, right,

1175
01:11:57,199 --> 01:12:01,955
by reasons that rise to the level of
constitutional support.

1176
01:12:01,955 --> 01:12:05,209
Yeah. And so I guess like part of that,

1177
01:12:05,209 --> 01:12:10,633
and I guess my Some of my point is, is
that scattered throughout,

1178
01:12:10,633 --> 01:12:15,722
you know, if you zoom in on these maps,
which I know you can,

1179
01:12:15,722 --> 01:12:21,646
throughout the county is even in some of
the areas that are deemed as 5

1180
01:12:21,646 --> 01:12:26,319
acres and, you know, there's still 1 acre,
lots of them.

1181
01:12:26,319 --> 01:12:30,319
And I should confirm this map that's on
the screen right now is the current urban

1182
01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:31,109
growth boundary.

1183
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:31,392
Yeah, gotcha.

1184
01:12:31,392 --> 01:12:35,324
That's approved, that the county has
previously approved.

1185
01:12:35,324 --> 01:12:40,705
So everything that's in the tan color is
within the approved growth management

1186
01:12:40,705 --> 01:12:41,050
within the approved growth management
plan,

1187
01:12:41,050 --> 01:12:45,396
but some of the areas— and I know it's
going to be hard to see—

1188
01:12:45,396 --> 01:12:49,949
but some of the areas that are
polka-dotted are the planned growth

1189
01:12:49,949 --> 01:12:50,708
polka-dotted are the planned growth
boundaries.

1190
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:56,994
So none of, none of that is proposed or
part of the land use Well,

1191
01:12:56,994 --> 01:13:01,132
I just think what I mean is like, you look
at that,

1192
01:13:01,132 --> 01:13:06,487
and I can see like most of those are
probably in that bottom left.

1193
01:13:06,487 --> 01:13:09,002
I don't know what road that is.

1194
01:13:09,002 --> 01:13:14,924
But, you know, there's lots of what look
like very small parcels already.

1195
01:13:14,924 --> 01:13:17,520
Yep, like, like running down 31,

1196
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:22,550
running down outside of the urban growth
boundaries currently.

1197
01:13:22,550 --> 01:13:23,690
Oh, yeah.

1198
01:13:24,819 --> 01:13:28,693
So I just don't know how you deviate one
from the other.

1199
01:13:28,693 --> 01:13:33,258
You know, you know, for 100 years we've
said, hey, we can do this.

1200
01:13:33,258 --> 01:13:34,987
Now your neighbors can't.

1201
01:13:34,987 --> 01:13:39,691
You know, I just, I have a hard time
getting over the fact that one,

1202
01:13:39,691 --> 01:13:43,703
one property owner has had these rights
for so many years,

1203
01:13:43,703 --> 01:13:49,375
and many people with large farms have had
the opportunity to subdivide their lands

1204
01:13:49,375 --> 01:13:51,588
to to 1-acre minimums, whatever.

1205
01:13:51,588 --> 01:13:56,984
And so we're gonna— we are inevitably
going to, if we do have a 5-acre zoning,

1206
01:13:56,984 --> 01:14:02,379
we're going to dictate, you know, these
zoning rights of many, many people who

1207
01:14:02,379 --> 01:14:02,725
zoning rights of many, many people who
have,

1208
01:14:02,725 --> 01:14:05,008
who have had that for many years.

1209
01:14:05,008 --> 01:14:09,435
And I guess that's at the end of the day,
that's my whole point.

1210
01:14:09,435 --> 01:14:14,484
And I mean, I can look at the map outside
of the urban growth boundaries,

1211
01:14:14,484 --> 01:14:19,672
outside of the things that you've before
last week that had a lot of 5-acre

1212
01:14:19,672 --> 01:14:25,275
minimums. You know, I would say to me,
outside of the city centers, um, you know,

1213
01:14:25,275 --> 01:14:27,073
most was a 5-acre minimum.

1214
01:14:27,073 --> 01:14:32,815
And I have a hard time, you know, telling
one man you can do this or one you can't.

1215
01:14:32,815 --> 01:14:35,720
Um, and with the infrastructure, you know,

1216
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:40,078
the Planning Commission has to tell these
developers, you know,

1217
01:14:40,078 --> 01:14:43,675
if they have the infrastructure They can
provide it.

1218
01:14:43,675 --> 01:14:48,724
If they don't have the infrastructure, the
developer has to pay for that,

1219
01:14:48,724 --> 01:14:53,843
and it's giving them their option to
upgrade that water line, or you know,

1220
01:14:53,843 --> 01:14:57,025
you know they need a turning lane on the
road,

1221
01:14:57,025 --> 01:15:02,420
or whatever they deem as the Planning
Commission and Kim McKee and Todd as the

1222
01:15:02,420 --> 01:15:06,501
Murray County Water. You know, whatever
that comes up with.

1223
01:15:06,501 --> 01:15:11,689
You know, that's on the decision of the
developers to make those decisions.

1224
01:15:11,689 --> 01:15:15,909
So that's, I guess, my point. Is that all
you got? All right.

1225
01:15:15,909 --> 01:15:20,543
I do got a couple lights over here. Let's
go with Ms. Notley first.

1226
01:15:20,543 --> 01:15:21,906
Thank you.

1227
01:15:22,355 --> 01:15:27,665
Has it been your experience that if
someone has, like Sam was just saying,

1228
01:15:27,665 --> 01:15:30,966
a farm that they've had for years and
forever,

1229
01:15:30,966 --> 01:15:34,051
and now all of a sudden they can't do
this,

1230
01:15:34,051 --> 01:15:37,352
Is there such a thing as grandfathering it
in?

1231
01:15:37,352 --> 01:15:39,433
This would only apply to new,

1232
01:15:39,433 --> 01:15:45,030
new projects and keep the farms that have
been viable and sustainable forever?

1233
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:50,439
I'll answer that. So the, the only thing
that's generally grandfathered is the use.

1234
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,176
So if you're using the land, for instance,

1235
01:15:53,176 --> 01:15:57,411
as a gas station and the county rezones it
to only a residential,

1236
01:15:57,411 --> 01:16:01,517
you don't have to tear down your gas
station and build a house.

1237
01:16:01,517 --> 01:16:04,123
You can continue using your gas station.

1238
01:16:04,123 --> 01:16:09,532
You're not generally grandfathered for a
density unless you're already using it for

1239
01:16:09,532 --> 01:16:15,006
that. So if you have a 1-acre subdivision
and you have all these 1-acre lots already

1240
01:16:15,006 --> 01:16:20,350
created, legally created, owned by people,
and the county rezones that to 5 acres,

1241
01:16:20,350 --> 01:16:21,653
that's not going to—

1242
01:16:21,797 --> 01:16:22,117
all this—

1243
01:16:22,358 --> 01:16:24,649
they're legally nonconforming as to their
lot size.

1244
01:16:24,649 --> 01:16:24,745
Okay.

1245
01:16:25,727 --> 01:16:32,388
But if you have a 150-acre farm and it's
zoned 1 acre now and the county determines

1246
01:16:32,388 --> 01:16:36,963
it's better to zone it for 50 acres, 1
unit per 50 acres—

1247
01:16:36,963 --> 01:16:43,464
I'm exaggerating on purpose— you don't
retain the grandfathering of that density.

1248
01:16:43,464 --> 01:16:49,644
You're just retaining the use that you
have on it, if that makes sense. Okay.

1249
01:16:50,535 --> 01:16:57,235
Is that all you have? Commissioner Strain,
you're up. Thank you, Chair.

1250
01:16:57,235 --> 01:17:04,691
It's interesting that you asked that
question because we didn't even talk about

1251
01:17:04,691 --> 01:17:12,052
it, but that was pretty much my question
as well. Well, I'll let her go first.

1252
01:17:12,052 --> 01:17:16,582
Yeah, because she's cuter than I am and
younger.

1253
01:17:16,582 --> 01:17:21,112
Uh, clarify this for a very simple person,
okay?

1254
01:17:21,112 --> 01:17:25,358
I've owned a farm for generations, 100
acres,

1255
01:17:25,358 --> 01:17:31,776
and the county decides that they want to
make that area 5-acre lots.

1256
01:17:31,776 --> 01:17:38,665
Then the value of my property has
decreased significantly because I could

1257
01:17:38,665 --> 01:17:39,042
decreased significantly because I could
sell

1258
01:17:39,042 --> 01:17:41,968
that if I decided to sell that.

1259
01:17:41,968 --> 01:17:42,113
Right.

1260
01:17:42,417 --> 01:17:44,397
So that with 1-acre lots,

1261
01:17:44,397 --> 01:17:50,655
I could put either 100 houses on that 100
acres or 20 houses on that 100 acres,

1262
01:17:50,655 --> 01:17:56,041
depending upon what I, I or this committee
or somebody else decided.

1263
01:17:56,041 --> 01:18:01,745
There's no way that we can say that the
guy with the 100-acre lots, the,

1264
01:18:01,745 --> 01:18:04,279
the current owner, could decide,

1265
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:10,616
make a decision at this point that he
would rather have Have a 1-acre commitment

1266
01:18:10,616 --> 01:18:10,775
would rather have Have a 1-acre commitment
or

1267
01:18:10,775 --> 01:18:12,359
a 5-acre commitment?

1268
01:18:12,359 --> 01:18:16,372
Well, the way to do that would be to not
rezone the property.

1269
01:18:16,372 --> 01:18:20,649
So what you're grandfathered in is how
you're using the property.

1270
01:18:20,649 --> 01:18:25,715
Like if you have a structure or if you
already created this lot or you had an

1271
01:18:25,715 --> 01:18:26,044
already created this lot or you had an
event

1272
01:18:26,044 --> 01:18:30,584
venue and all of a sudden they weren't
legal in that zoning district,

1273
01:18:30,584 --> 01:18:32,952
you can keep using that event venue.

1274
01:18:32,952 --> 01:18:36,439
But if you just have 100 acres and you're
farming it,

1275
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:40,584
no one's going to tell you you can— you
have to do 5-acre lots.

1276
01:18:40,584 --> 01:18:44,203
No one's going to tell you you have to
stop farming it.

1277
01:18:44,203 --> 01:18:46,900
But if that zone only allows 5-acre lots,

1278
01:18:46,900 --> 01:18:51,111
you can't then all of a sudden propose a
1-acre lot subdivision.

1279
01:18:51,111 --> 01:18:52,690
Now, whether it reduces—

1280
01:18:52,690 --> 01:18:55,034
So the value of the property is going to
decrease significantly.

1281
01:18:55,034 --> 01:19:00,154
Whether it reduces in value or not, I will
leave to the real estate officials.

1282
01:19:00,154 --> 01:19:03,896
And because I will say it's different in
every community.

1283
01:19:03,896 --> 01:19:09,082
There are a lot of areas on a piece of
property that you're not going to get to

1284
01:19:09,082 --> 01:19:14,400
develop whether you have 1 house or 500
houses because of floodplain or slopes or

1285
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:18,273
whatever, you know, the soils that you
need for the septic.

1286
01:19:18,273 --> 01:19:20,636
So there's a lot of variables to it,

1287
01:19:20,636 --> 01:19:24,903
and I'm not qualified to say it's
automatically reduced in value.

1288
01:19:24,903 --> 01:19:28,120
Although I will say that's the general
consensus.

1289
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:32,190
But I will also say that that was— that's
been studied before,

1290
01:19:32,190 --> 01:19:34,290
and it depends on the community.

1291
01:19:34,290 --> 01:19:38,820
So I would have to defer to the real
estate professionals about that.

1292
01:19:38,820 --> 01:19:44,195
So are you saying then that we can't say
that we can give that property owner,

1293
01:19:44,195 --> 01:19:49,914
whether he bought it as an investment or
he's owned it forever, we can't— we can't,

1294
01:19:49,914 --> 01:19:55,014
as we make these rules, regulations or
suggestions, whatever we call them,

1295
01:19:55,014 --> 01:20:00,389
we can't say that the current property
owner has an option to say an acre or 5

1296
01:20:00,389 --> 01:20:00,802
acres?

1297
01:20:00,802 --> 01:20:04,180
It's— zoning is not personal to the
property owner.

1298
01:20:04,180 --> 01:20:08,219
Zoning is the policy and the law that you
apply to that land.

1299
01:20:08,219 --> 01:20:11,994
And so if that's the case, then you just
don't rezone it.

1300
01:20:11,994 --> 01:20:17,093
You know, otherwise it would be some sort
of springing zoning a future owner,

1301
01:20:17,093 --> 01:20:20,471
and I'm not— I don't know how that would
even work.

1302
01:20:20,471 --> 01:20:20,856
Okay.

1303
01:20:20,856 --> 01:20:25,544
Yeah, because generally you can't apply
regulations to a specific owner,

1304
01:20:25,544 --> 01:20:30,102
because a lot of times— and again, I'm not
an expert on Tennessee law—

1305
01:20:30,102 --> 01:20:34,334
but if somebody sells a property,
generally that's not, you know,

1306
01:20:34,334 --> 01:20:37,915
they're not notifying every county office
on that sale.

1307
01:20:37,915 --> 01:20:42,473
You know, if I sell my property to my My
mom or to somebody, you know,

1308
01:20:42,473 --> 01:20:47,291
that goes through the deed process and
goes through those, you know, legal

1309
01:20:47,291 --> 01:20:47,747
goes through those, you know, legal
things,

1310
01:20:47,747 --> 01:20:52,565
but it may not, you know, it's not going
to go to the planning department.

1311
01:20:52,565 --> 01:20:57,448
And so a lot of times when people talk
about putting regulations, you know,

1312
01:20:57,448 --> 01:21:01,745
this is only applied to this property
owner, the tracking of that,

1313
01:21:01,745 --> 01:21:04,675
the maintenance of that is really
impossible.

1314
01:21:04,675 --> 01:21:09,949
Because who's going to be the one that's
Like kind of ensuring that that property

1315
01:21:09,949 --> 01:21:14,767
hasn't sold, you know, is every time a
building permit comes in, you know,

1316
01:21:14,767 --> 01:21:16,330
it's just, it's kind of—

1317
01:21:16,330 --> 01:21:20,588
I understand you can give it to your son
or something. I understand that.

1318
01:21:20,588 --> 01:21:25,255
But I also have a sense that if I invested
in 100 acres with the idea that I was

1319
01:21:25,255 --> 01:21:30,097
going to split that property into 1-acre
lots, the value would be extremely higher.

1320
01:21:30,097 --> 01:21:34,822
And the reason I bought it was because I
was going to split it into 100-acre lots

1321
01:21:34,822 --> 01:21:38,555
and some Jerry Strahan from the county
commissioner decides, no,

1322
01:21:38,555 --> 01:21:42,930
you're going to make that a 5-acre lot, I
would be a little upset with him.

1323
01:21:42,930 --> 01:21:43,747
But that's me.

1324
01:21:43,747 --> 01:21:45,987
Thank you.

1325
01:21:45,987 --> 01:21:50,317
Thank you, Chair. All right. I don't have
any other lights. Proceed.

1326
01:21:50,317 --> 01:21:52,418
I guess I want to ask a question.

1327
01:21:52,418 --> 01:21:56,683
When I have meetings, you know, we have an
agenda, we have an item,

1328
01:21:56,683 --> 01:22:00,376
we make a motion, we We move forward, we
vote on the item.

1329
01:22:00,376 --> 01:22:05,406
What action are you looking out of this
committee tonight? What are you looking

1330
01:22:05,406 --> 01:22:05,661
committee tonight? What are you looking
for?

1331
01:22:05,661 --> 01:22:07,380
What do you want out of us?

1332
01:22:07,380 --> 01:22:11,823
At this point, we've gotten a lot of mixed
feedback, you know,

1333
01:22:11,823 --> 01:22:17,127
from different groups throughout this
whole process on kind of this 1-acre

1334
01:22:17,127 --> 01:22:17,557
whole process on kind of this 1-acre
versus

1335
01:22:17,557 --> 01:22:23,004
5-acre lot. You know, this is not— I'm not
making that decision for you all.

1336
01:22:23,004 --> 01:22:27,089
I'm a, you know, I'm here to help
facilitate the process.

1337
01:22:29,323 --> 01:22:29,967
Yes.

1338
01:22:29,967 --> 01:22:36,159
But in order for us to sort of create the
documents and create the policies and,

1339
01:22:36,159 --> 01:22:39,720
you know, create this final product, you
know,

1340
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:46,144
I need that direction from the county on,
you know, where do we think or, you know,

1341
01:22:46,144 --> 01:22:52,182
are you all ready to make kind of a
determination on kind of a general idea of

1342
01:22:52,182 --> 01:22:52,569
determination on kind of a general idea of
where

1343
01:22:52,569 --> 01:22:58,374
you want to go with this future land use
map and future land use policy or,

1344
01:22:58,374 --> 01:23:01,393
you know, Do you need more information?

1345
01:23:01,393 --> 01:23:07,276
Do you need— do you want to wait until we
have the fiscal piece to make that

1346
01:23:07,276 --> 01:23:13,158
decision? I mean, I think we just need to
have that kind of conversation of,

1347
01:23:13,158 --> 01:23:17,338
you know, where we're at so I can know
where I can go.

1348
01:23:17,338 --> 01:23:20,632
All right. So, that said, you know, I
asked the question.

1349
01:23:20,632 --> 01:23:25,025
So, what is— what does this committee
understand what she's asking and where

1350
01:23:25,025 --> 01:23:25,314
understand what she's asking and where
we're

1351
01:23:25,314 --> 01:23:28,204
going to go. Sam, your light's on. You're
up, sir.

1352
01:23:28,204 --> 01:23:32,770
So how much of the fiscal piece, you know,
are you, you going to present to us,

1353
01:23:32,770 --> 01:23:34,908
I guess, is my— would be my question.

1354
01:23:34,908 --> 01:23:39,301
Are you going to present, hey, if we go to
5-acre minimums, you're going to—

1355
01:23:39,301 --> 01:23:42,653
the perpetuity property tax is going to go
down this much,

1356
01:23:42,653 --> 01:23:46,294
or it's going to go up this much, or
you're going to, you know—

1357
01:23:46,294 --> 01:23:51,452
The consulting firm Tischler Beis is the
one that's doing the financial analysis,

1358
01:23:51,452 --> 01:23:53,871
and So I— they're working on that now.

1359
01:23:53,871 --> 01:23:59,156
I don't have their results, so I don't, I
don't know exactly what they're going to—

1360
01:23:59,156 --> 01:24:00,621
what they're producing.

1361
01:24:00,974 --> 01:24:01,199
Sure.

1362
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:02,676
But we'll have that.

1363
01:24:02,676 --> 01:24:02,949
Yes.

1364
01:24:03,206 --> 01:24:03,527
Yes.

1365
01:24:03,688 --> 01:24:05,975
I know they've done a lot of work with
y'all before.

1366
01:24:05,975 --> 01:24:09,405
So I guess that's— those are the things
that are going to be on the table that

1367
01:24:09,405 --> 01:24:09,581
that are going to be on the table that
say,

1368
01:24:09,581 --> 01:24:09,757
hey.

1369
01:24:09,757 --> 01:24:14,786
Yeah. And essentially what they're doing
is kind of an analysis of sort of the

1370
01:24:14,786 --> 01:24:18,525
status quo Yes. So, you know, the status
quo of, you know,

1371
01:24:18,525 --> 01:24:23,748
your current regulations allow for 1-acre
lots pretty much, you know, countywide.

1372
01:24:23,748 --> 01:24:27,874
What would that look like versus if it was
increased to 5 acres?

1373
01:24:27,874 --> 01:24:32,581
Again, the specifics of every data point
that goes in that, I'm not sure,

1374
01:24:32,581 --> 01:24:37,609
but if there's specific things that you
want to make sure is included in that,

1375
01:24:37,609 --> 01:24:42,767
you know, if there are certain things that
you want to see that I can pass on to

1376
01:24:42,767 --> 01:24:47,990
them and make sure that they address or
check to make sure that they can do that,

1377
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:49,408
I can do that as well.

1378
01:24:49,408 --> 01:24:54,602
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, in, in a
fiscal analysis, I mean,

1379
01:24:54,602 --> 01:24:59,795
I would want to see, hey, if you go to a
5-acre minimum, you know,

1380
01:24:59,795 --> 01:25:05,225
what strain does that put on, or lack of
strain put on the, you know,

1381
01:25:05,225 --> 01:25:09,317
the added infrastructure that's recently
been added?

1382
01:25:09,317 --> 01:25:15,770
And, you know, was the infrastructure that
was added recently in preparation for X

1383
01:25:15,770 --> 01:25:19,783
growth? And, you know, if we essentially,
you know,

1384
01:25:19,783 --> 01:25:23,875
I don't want to say halt that growth, but,
you know,

1385
01:25:23,875 --> 01:25:30,091
slow that growth in those areas that
they've spent a billion or what, you know,

1386
01:25:30,091 --> 01:25:32,531
I don't have numbers, you know,

1387
01:25:32,531 --> 01:25:38,511
what does that look like to the other
departments that are funded by the, by

1388
01:25:38,511 --> 01:25:38,826
departments that are funded by the, by
the,

1389
01:25:38,826 --> 01:25:42,839
by the county? You know, what is the, uh,
you know,

1390
01:25:42,839 --> 01:25:47,246
what does the road superintendent think
about, you know?

1391
01:25:47,246 --> 01:25:48,129
Mm-hmm.

1392
01:25:48,129 --> 01:25:53,834
You know, the, the, the increase in
property value over these last 5 years of

1393
01:25:53,834 --> 01:25:54,279
property value over these last 5 years of
growth

1394
01:25:54,279 --> 01:26:00,058
that we've had, uh, has that helped, um,
in, in gaining on any infrastructure?

1395
01:26:00,058 --> 01:26:04,504
Um, are we gonna slow in some of that
infrastructure growth?

1396
01:26:04,504 --> 01:26:10,135
You know, I, I mean, our property taxes in
perpetuity have grown enormously,

1397
01:26:10,135 --> 01:26:12,506
and sales tax and this and that.

1398
01:26:12,506 --> 01:26:18,212
You know, their use of it as a county
commission is, you know, that's on, you

1399
01:26:18,212 --> 01:26:18,582
commission is, you know, that's on, you
know,

1400
01:26:18,582 --> 01:26:20,138
the budget committee.

1401
01:26:20,138 --> 01:26:25,844
But, um, you know, what does that look
like in making these types of changes?

1402
01:26:25,844 --> 01:26:29,252
I guess that's what I would I would ask.
Okay.

1403
01:26:29,397 --> 01:26:30,055
All right.

1404
01:26:30,987 --> 01:26:35,573
Anybody else? Because I still have to ask,
you know, I asked her the question,

1405
01:26:35,573 --> 01:26:40,042
what does she want out of us? Are we
prepared to give her an answer to that?

1406
01:26:40,042 --> 01:26:43,805
Because, you know, we've been here an hour
and a half, you know?

1407
01:26:43,805 --> 01:26:47,686
And so I want to know where we're going
forward with this meeting.

1408
01:26:47,686 --> 01:26:52,566
James, you're up, brother. Go. I'm sorry.
Wait, let me, let me let Travis go first.

1409
01:26:52,566 --> 01:26:56,094
Cause he hadn't, he hadn't talked tonight.
Travis, go ahead.

1410
01:26:56,094 --> 01:26:58,329
So I guess for the financial analysis,

1411
01:26:58,329 --> 01:27:02,738
I'd be interested to see what the
projected impact on the median home value

1412
01:27:02,738 --> 01:27:02,856
projected impact on the median home value
is

1413
01:27:02,856 --> 01:27:07,148
likely to be, and then also what the
projected impact is on the amount of

1414
01:27:07,148 --> 01:27:07,736
projected impact is on the amount of
productive

1415
01:27:07,736 --> 01:27:09,030
agricultural property.

1416
01:27:09,030 --> 01:27:16,830
Okay. Home value and projected impact on—

1417
01:27:16,830 --> 01:27:18,394
Productive—

1418
01:27:18,394 --> 01:27:21,508
Productive agriculture. Okay. I just want
to make sure I got that read down right.

1419
01:27:21,782 --> 01:27:25,539
That all you got? Yes, sir. All right,
James, you're up. Mr.

1420
01:27:25,539 --> 01:27:30,111
Chairman, this is kind of moving ahead
just a little bit, but indulge me.

1421
01:27:30,111 --> 01:27:33,743
Do we have an idea about our next public
engagement event,

1422
01:27:33,743 --> 01:27:35,934
when we're going to try to do that?

1423
01:27:35,934 --> 01:27:40,568
Well, that's discussed later in the
agenda, but— Well, I've got a point to

1424
01:27:40,568 --> 01:27:40,882
agenda, but— Well, I've got a point to
that.

1425
01:27:40,882 --> 01:27:45,265
Okay, go ahead. You know, I want to— I
want some feedback from people.

1426
01:27:45,265 --> 01:27:47,206
I know I've got some partially,

1427
01:27:47,206 --> 01:27:52,028
but I want more feedback on some thoughts
on this whole 5 versus 1-acre Rule.

1428
01:27:52,028 --> 01:27:56,725
I know I have property that could be
subdivided if I sold it and, you know,

1429
01:27:56,725 --> 01:27:59,167
live comfortably, but I'm not going to.

1430
01:27:59,167 --> 01:28:03,864
I don't care if there's a 5-acre rule in
place, but I'm just one landowner.

1431
01:28:03,864 --> 01:28:09,124
So, but I want, I want more input from the
community. Okay. All right. Anybody else?

1432
01:28:09,124 --> 01:28:12,756
All right. Proceed. Not just for the—
yeah, just go ahead.

1433
01:28:12,756 --> 01:28:16,021
Okay. Yeah. Based on that, The— my, you
know,

1434
01:28:16,021 --> 01:28:21,754
kind of the current idea in my head was
that we would have a meeting to discuss

1435
01:28:21,754 --> 01:28:21,972
that we would have a meeting to discuss
the

1436
01:28:21,972 --> 01:28:27,414
fiscal analysis, and then we would go to
the public for a public, you know,

1437
01:28:27,414 --> 01:28:30,244
engagement event and get more feedback.

1438
01:28:30,244 --> 01:28:36,194
It is completely up to you all if we want
to go to the public first before we have

1439
01:28:36,194 --> 01:28:37,718
that fiscal analysis,

1440
01:28:37,718 --> 01:28:43,668
or do you feel like you all want to kind
of hear that fiscal analysis before we go

1441
01:28:43,668 --> 01:28:47,442
to the public? So I think, again, in terms
of order,

1442
01:28:47,442 --> 01:28:50,635
It doesn't matter to me how it all lines
up.

1443
01:28:50,635 --> 01:28:56,077
What does matter is kind of what
information are we looking to get from the

1444
01:28:56,077 --> 01:28:56,585
information are we looking to get from the
public.

1445
01:28:56,585 --> 01:28:59,342
And I think if really the question is,

1446
01:28:59,342 --> 01:29:04,349
are we trying to get more public impact or
public input on, you know,

1447
01:29:04,349 --> 01:29:10,009
the 1 acre versus 5 acres, then that's
kind of what we should go to the public

1448
01:29:10,009 --> 01:29:10,372
kind of what we should go to the public
with.

1449
01:29:10,372 --> 01:29:10,735
Okay.

1450
01:29:12,186 --> 01:29:17,475
I would think that the fiscal— I would
think that that could—

1451
01:29:17,475 --> 01:29:23,804
the fiscal impact of some of this could
determine some people's vision of

1452
01:29:23,804 --> 01:29:24,758
1 versus 5.

1453
01:29:24,758 --> 01:29:25,561
It definitely could.

1454
01:29:25,561 --> 01:29:30,651
I mean, if they don't get their road
topped for 5 years versus 2,

1455
01:29:30,651 --> 01:29:36,838
or they're not going to get a shoulder on
their road because we didn't have any

1456
01:29:36,838 --> 01:29:43,338
growth, you know, that could Determine— I
would think you would have, uh, you know,

1457
01:29:43,338 --> 01:29:46,392
approached this at a fiscal, uh, first.

1458
01:29:46,392 --> 01:29:46,959
Mm-hmm.

1459
01:29:46,959 --> 01:29:51,449
And then, you know, get it out there and
people could look at it for a couple weeks

1460
01:29:51,449 --> 01:29:55,560
and, you know, explain it to us and
explain it to the public and then have a

1461
01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:55,884
explain it to the public and then have a
public

1462
01:29:55,884 --> 01:29:59,238
engagement after that. That would be my
thought. I don't know.

1463
01:29:59,238 --> 01:30:01,726
I'm still— for me, I still want more map
data.

1464
01:30:01,726 --> 01:30:03,836
You know, like, I want to— I, you know,

1465
01:30:03,836 --> 01:30:06,649
like we talked last month about the
Superfund areas,

1466
01:30:06,649 --> 01:30:08,975
that they ought to be tagged on these
maps,

1467
01:30:08,975 --> 01:30:12,707
and that the area up in the county where
it was real rocky, you know,

1468
01:30:12,707 --> 01:30:16,223
kind of tag that so we know that nothing's
going to happen there.

1469
01:30:16,223 --> 01:30:20,551
I'd like to see the industrial corridors
tagged so that, you know, we know that,

1470
01:30:20,551 --> 01:30:23,580
okay, well, if there's going to be a
business park here,

1471
01:30:23,580 --> 01:30:27,421
That's going to have 400 jobs, where are
those people going to live at?

1472
01:30:27,421 --> 01:30:30,612
And so what kind of development might pop
up next to those,

1473
01:30:30,612 --> 01:30:33,479
and what might that need to be zoned to
support that?

1474
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:37,590
And also, as far as shopping, you know,
the Publix, the Walmart, the Kroger,

1475
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:41,972
and all that other stuff, we just need
those. I think we still need those layers.

1476
01:30:41,972 --> 01:30:46,137
And there again, I don't know if that's
something that you can get, you know,

1477
01:30:46,137 --> 01:30:48,084
or if it's something that, you know,

1478
01:30:48,084 --> 01:30:51,763
can be bought online cookie cutter where
that data is already there,

1479
01:30:51,763 --> 01:30:56,090
or if it's It's not something where we've
got to get the licensing and have each

1480
01:30:56,090 --> 01:30:59,011
department sit there and pump in that data
for a year,

1481
01:30:59,011 --> 01:31:03,176
and then we come back with something. You
know, all that takes work and time.

1482
01:31:03,176 --> 01:31:07,504
Once it's built, it's magnificent, but
you've got to build it, and we don't have

1483
01:31:07,504 --> 01:31:07,666
you've got to build it, and we don't have
it.

1484
01:31:07,666 --> 01:31:12,102
And I just don't know if it's available on
the open market other than real estate,

1485
01:31:12,102 --> 01:31:13,670
you know, stuff is out there.

1486
01:31:13,670 --> 01:31:16,375
And I know that the water company's got
its lines,

1487
01:31:16,375 --> 01:31:19,729
and the power company's got its lines, and
that kind of stuff.

1488
01:31:19,729 --> 01:31:23,407
Those layers are good. But I know we did
talk about that last month.

1489
01:31:23,407 --> 01:31:23,727
It's happening.

1490
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:24,749
Having that information.

1491
01:31:24,749 --> 01:31:27,717
I don't see that here tonight, so I didn't
know what happened with that.

1492
01:31:27,717 --> 01:31:33,857
So we built the maps with the information
that we do have and do have access to,

1493
01:31:33,857 --> 01:31:40,228
and so those maps were in your packet, so
that's— and these are on the website too.

1494
01:31:40,228 --> 01:31:44,756
So we have— this is the draft that you
guys saw last month.

1495
01:31:44,756 --> 01:31:48,670
We haven't made any changes to this
because, again,

1496
01:31:48,670 --> 01:31:54,196
this is all still up for discussion. So
ignore— you can ignore that one.

1497
01:31:54,196 --> 01:31:57,804
Those are the existing urban growth
boundaries.

1498
01:31:57,804 --> 01:32:02,179
This is topography, and so we have it
based on elevation.

1499
01:32:02,179 --> 01:32:08,472
And again, to show it at a county level,
we have to do it kind of in this version.

1500
01:32:08,472 --> 01:32:11,312
We can zoom in. This is parcel-based.

1501
01:32:11,312 --> 01:32:13,599
Oh, I know. I've got it right here on my
laptop.

1502
01:32:13,599 --> 01:32:15,885
I can zoom— I can drill down and it looks
great,

1503
01:32:15,885 --> 01:32:18,648
but it's It's not all the data that I want
to see, though.

1504
01:32:18,648 --> 01:32:21,775
But this is— so this is the data that we
currently have.

1505
01:32:21,775 --> 01:32:25,963
So we have the roads, we have floodplain,
we have prime agricultural soils.

1506
01:32:25,963 --> 01:32:29,984
There is certain open-source data that we
can have access, but we would—

1507
01:32:29,984 --> 01:32:33,334
I don't believe we have access to any,
like, Superfund site.

1508
01:32:33,334 --> 01:32:37,578
You know, like, I don't think that's
public data that we can access on a GIS

1509
01:32:37,578 --> 01:32:37,857
public data that we can access on a GIS
layer

1510
01:32:37,857 --> 01:32:39,421
that the county already has.

1511
01:32:39,421 --> 01:32:43,665
So I think a lot of the So the really
specific information that you guys are

1512
01:32:43,665 --> 01:32:44,056
specific information that you guys are
looking

1513
01:32:44,056 --> 01:32:48,635
for is things that we don't have access to
and that you all as a county don't have

1514
01:32:48,635 --> 01:32:49,975
access to at the moment?

1515
01:32:49,975 --> 01:32:54,321
Well, we know for a fact that there's a
development project suitcase.

1516
01:32:54,321 --> 01:32:59,612
I don't know what they call the place now,
but it's up there on the east side of 65,

1517
01:32:59,612 --> 01:33:02,446
north of— on the northeast quadrant up
there.

1518
01:33:02,991 --> 01:33:03,199
We don't—

1519
01:33:03,199 --> 01:33:04,600
it's nowhere on the map,

1520
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:08,919
and we know that it's going to be
warehouses and buildings and this, that,

1521
01:33:08,919 --> 01:33:10,320
and the other, and jobs.

1522
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:14,755
So, you know, but that ought to be tagged
on the map so that we can see that

1523
01:33:14,755 --> 01:33:19,250
somehow. And also Cherry Glen and the
other industrial parks in the county so

1524
01:33:19,250 --> 01:33:19,483
other industrial parks in the county so
that

1525
01:33:19,483 --> 01:33:21,643
we know that if things come in there,

1526
01:33:21,643 --> 01:33:26,195
there's going to be jobs and a possible
need for, you know, infrastructure for

1527
01:33:26,195 --> 01:33:26,487
need for, you know, infrastructure for
them.

1528
01:33:26,487 --> 01:33:28,880
Because we got— we've got to think ahead.

1529
01:33:29,796 --> 01:33:30,165
This is—

1530
01:33:30,358 --> 01:33:32,381
this is a multigenerational thing here.

1531
01:33:32,381 --> 01:33:37,538
Oh, most definitely. And we have some of
those industrial areas identified.

1532
01:33:37,538 --> 01:33:42,352
But again, a lot of this is going to be
based on your existing zoning.

1533
01:33:42,352 --> 01:33:43,865
And so if things— the—

1534
01:33:43,865 --> 01:33:49,297
We have the light purple currently as that
kind of employment industrial areas,

1535
01:33:49,297 --> 01:33:53,973
and then this kind of medium purple as
like the corridor commercial,

1536
01:33:53,973 --> 01:33:56,724
and then it's hard to see at this scale,

1537
01:33:56,724 --> 01:33:59,887
but there are pockets of regional
interchange,

1538
01:33:59,887 --> 01:34:05,113
which is the other commercial corridor or
commercial category. But if there—

1539
01:34:06,676 --> 01:34:10,348
But the interstate is as commercial as
it's going to get.

1540
01:34:10,348 --> 01:34:15,759
I mean, you know, that's where you put the
stuff. That's where you want your trucks.

1541
01:34:15,759 --> 01:34:19,366
You don't want your 18-wheelers driving to
Williamsport.

1542
01:34:19,366 --> 01:34:24,262
You want your 18-wheelers off the
interstate and getting off right there and

1543
01:34:24,262 --> 01:34:24,584
interstate and getting off right there and
doing

1544
01:34:24,584 --> 01:34:27,870
their business and then moving back up the
highway.

1545
01:34:27,870 --> 01:34:31,091
So that's— What I was saying earlier is,
you know,

1546
01:34:31,091 --> 01:34:36,308
some of those really tight lines that you
see are existing neighborhoods already.

1547
01:34:36,308 --> 01:34:39,851
And so So, you know, when you look at the
GIS mappings,

1548
01:34:39,851 --> 01:34:45,005
some of those are already small parceled
areas, I think is where I'm getting at.

1549
01:34:45,005 --> 01:34:46,937
And, you know, maybe— I don't—

1550
01:34:46,937 --> 01:34:51,189
maybe it has to be done in a quadrant
basis more than a— you know,

1551
01:34:51,189 --> 01:34:56,020
if we had 4 little maps that was, hey, you
got a lot of neighborhoods here,

1552
01:34:56,020 --> 01:34:59,241
you've got Monsanto here, you've got Old
you know,

1553
01:34:59,241 --> 01:35:02,140
plant sites in Mount Pleasant here, you
know,

1554
01:35:02,140 --> 01:35:06,843
maybe not things that the county pays for
GIS mapping for, but, you know,

1555
01:35:06,843 --> 01:35:10,386
we can see the neighborhoods, you can
already see them.

1556
01:35:10,386 --> 01:35:14,766
I mean, if we could label those like, hey,
these are already 1 acre,

1557
01:35:14,766 --> 01:35:17,536
this whole area is 1, you know what I
mean?

1558
01:35:17,536 --> 01:35:22,625
I think some of that might help as far as
like what's already densely populated

1559
01:35:22,625 --> 01:35:24,558
versus not. You know, there's—

1560
01:35:24,558 --> 01:35:29,518
I know there's a lot of information that's
not on there, you know, as far as—

1561
01:35:29,518 --> 01:35:33,771
And we can continue to, you know, tweak
the maps.

1562
01:35:33,771 --> 01:35:37,503
You know, I'm not worried about that
piece.

1563
01:35:37,503 --> 01:35:41,929
I think the overall policy direction isn't
set yet.

1564
01:35:41,929 --> 01:35:48,612
And so, you know, that's kind of the hard
We can make a million versions of a

1565
01:35:48,612 --> 01:35:51,650
map, but I don't want to, you know,

1566
01:35:51,650 --> 01:35:58,506
I don't want to waste your guys' time
doing things if I don't know what the end

1567
01:35:58,506 --> 01:36:03,106
goal is. And we don't have an end goal yet
with this.

1568
01:36:03,106 --> 01:36:08,287
Yeah, I just mean existing land use.

1569
01:36:08,287 --> 01:36:10,305
Oh, existing, like existing land use?

1570
01:36:10,305 --> 01:36:13,632
We don't even have an existing land use
because that's not a—

1571
01:36:13,632 --> 01:36:15,596
That's not a shapefile that we have.

1572
01:36:15,596 --> 01:36:20,823
The existing land use map per se is like
already developed neighborhoods, you know,

1573
01:36:20,823 --> 01:36:25,672
neighborhoods and 1-acre tracts or
whatever that have already been developed,

1574
01:36:25,672 --> 01:36:26,239
you know.

1575
01:36:26,239 --> 01:36:32,299
I mean, again, that's not a shapefile that
the county has provided or has.

1576
01:36:32,299 --> 01:36:34,182
So we can see it. Yeah.

1577
01:36:34,182 --> 01:36:37,048
The parcel data, parcel-level data,

1578
01:36:37,048 --> 01:36:43,435
you can see that there are smaller lots
and presume some of those are at least

1579
01:36:43,435 --> 01:36:45,237
residential. Oh, yeah.

1580
01:36:45,237 --> 01:36:48,970
Yeah, if we just colored it even like,
hey, all this is—

1581
01:36:48,970 --> 01:36:53,304
and maybe that's very time-consuming and
maybe that's what you're

1582
01:36:53,304 --> 01:36:54,037
getting at.

1583
01:36:54,037 --> 01:36:55,681
Well, we can— I mean, again,

1584
01:36:55,681 --> 01:36:59,672
I'm just trying to figure out exactly what
you guys are looking for.

1585
01:36:59,672 --> 01:37:04,964
Well, I guess like in my head, my point
is, is like around Coleoak, all right,

1586
01:37:04,964 --> 01:37:08,764
I'm just saying around Coleoak. I'm just
using Coleoaca.

1587
01:37:08,764 --> 01:37:13,378
There are some— there's some 1-acre
neighborhoods that are scattered

1588
01:37:13,378 --> 01:37:14,057
neighborhoods that are scattered
throughout

1589
01:37:14,057 --> 01:37:19,485
there, you know, off 31, or, you know, in
the Coleoaca, you know, downtown area.

1590
01:37:19,485 --> 01:37:21,588
There's a lot of small parcels.

1591
01:37:21,588 --> 01:37:26,881
So I guess, like, to everybody's point,
when it comes to 1 versus 5, you know,

1592
01:37:26,881 --> 01:37:27,220
when it comes to 1 versus 5, you know,
it's—

1593
01:37:27,220 --> 01:37:30,477
if that was the decision that everybody
came to,

1594
01:37:30,477 --> 01:37:35,905
then we would still need to If we were to
make a line, where would that line be?

1595
01:37:35,905 --> 01:37:39,094
You know, that line, if we go from the UGB
out,

1596
01:37:39,094 --> 01:37:44,251
that doesn't necessarily encompass all of
the 1-acre neighborhoods that were

1597
01:37:44,251 --> 01:37:49,136
previously approved throughout the years
that are already on the ground,

1598
01:37:49,136 --> 01:37:52,800
that are already platted. And I guess
that's my point.

1599
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:58,160
And like some of these roads, I just can't
tell what are, but, you know, I can,

1600
01:37:58,160 --> 01:37:59,925
without having to zoom in,

1601
01:37:59,925 --> 01:38:04,539
I can tell a lot of following 373 And then
off 50 and then down 245.

1602
01:38:04,539 --> 01:38:09,763
You know, there's a lot of little clusters
of areas where, to me, in my view,

1603
01:38:09,763 --> 01:38:12,749
is we've been doing this for 30 or 40
years.

1604
01:38:12,749 --> 01:38:14,716
I don't think that, you know,

1605
01:38:14,716 --> 01:38:18,720
downzoning those properties would be the
right thing to do.

1606
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:24,283
And I don't know that, you know, saying 1
mile out or 2 miles out or whatever the,

1607
01:38:24,283 --> 01:38:28,626
you know, the, the number is, is, is also
the right thing to do.

1608
01:38:28,626 --> 01:38:28,851
Okay.

1609
01:38:30,135 --> 01:38:34,853
I guess that's sort of what I'm trying to
explain, maybe.

1610
01:38:34,853 --> 01:38:36,561
Yeah, and I get that.

1611
01:38:36,561 --> 01:38:42,336
And I think from a land use map
standpoint, if you currently, you know,

1612
01:38:42,336 --> 01:38:48,598
have a 1-acre subdivision, and then the
county makes a policy that, you know,

1613
01:38:48,598 --> 01:38:53,316
kind of land outside of the UGB should be
5-acre minimums,

1614
01:38:53,316 --> 01:38:58,928
If there's currently a 1-acre subdivision
that's outside of that UGB,

1615
01:38:58,928 --> 01:39:04,377
on a land use map showing that doesn't
change, doesn't downzone it.

1616
01:39:04,377 --> 01:39:06,004
It wouldn't make it—

1617
01:39:06,004 --> 01:39:06,999
It just goes to a nonconforming.

1618
01:39:06,999 --> 01:39:10,979
No, it doesn't even go to nonconforming
because you're not

1619
01:39:10,979 --> 01:39:12,351
changing the zoning.

1620
01:39:12,351 --> 01:39:15,233
It's just because the future land use map—

1621
01:39:15,233 --> 01:39:19,544
Like, I can think of a couple
neighborhoods that have existing, you

1622
01:39:19,544 --> 01:39:19,866
neighborhoods that have existing, you
know,

1623
01:39:19,866 --> 01:39:24,821
cul-de-sacs, temporary cul-de-sacs that
have temporary developments that have

1624
01:39:24,821 --> 01:39:25,143
have temporary developments that have
been,

1625
01:39:25,143 --> 01:39:29,068
you know, for lack of a better word, that
are out of the UGB,

1626
01:39:29,068 --> 01:39:32,221
that would then at that point be being
downzoned.

1627
01:39:32,221 --> 01:39:36,983
So I guess that's the type of— those are
the types of properties that I'm—

1628
01:39:36,983 --> 01:39:41,680
I think that in my mind, I'm like, well,
what do you tell that landowner?

1629
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:47,948
And really, because again, we're— this is
a plan for the future.

1630
01:39:47,948 --> 01:39:53,629
And so anything that's currently platted,
currently zoned,

1631
01:39:53,629 --> 01:39:55,882
this won't affect that.

1632
01:39:55,882 --> 01:39:56,416
I understand that.

1633
01:39:56,416 --> 01:40:01,734
And so the idea is that, you know, kind of
regardless of what has been approved,

1634
01:40:01,734 --> 01:40:04,859
where does the county want to go in the
future?

1635
01:40:04,859 --> 01:40:07,784
And so if the idea is that outside the
UGBs,

1636
01:40:07,784 --> 01:40:12,969
we don't want any new small subdivisions,
that's the policy that you all make.

1637
01:40:12,969 --> 01:40:17,888
It doesn't change anybody's, you know,
approvals of approved subdivisions.

1638
01:40:17,888 --> 01:40:20,016
You know, all of those are good.

1639
01:40:20,016 --> 01:40:21,545
But then is the county—

1640
01:40:21,545 --> 01:40:25,799
does the county want to make that policy
of like moving forward,

1641
01:40:25,799 --> 01:40:30,320
this is what we want to do? Or does the
county not want to say that?

1642
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:32,514
Does the county want to say, hey,

1643
01:40:32,514 --> 01:40:36,768
we want to keep with what we have and the
policies that we have,

1644
01:40:36,768 --> 01:40:38,696
and let's just maintain that?

1645
01:40:38,696 --> 01:40:44,609
I think that, you know, even if there was
a decision made one way or the other,

1646
01:40:44,609 --> 01:40:50,073
some of that's going to have to be
spot-zoned, I guess, at the end of the

1647
01:40:50,073 --> 01:40:50,372
spot-zoned, I guess, at the end of the
day.

1648
01:40:50,372 --> 01:40:56,435
And I know what you're saying, that it's a
blanket deal across the— but yeah, so,

1649
01:40:56,435 --> 01:41:00,552
but I understand what you're— I understand
the concept.

1650
01:41:00,552 --> 01:41:03,434
The—

1651
01:41:03,434 --> 01:41:07,749
It seems like you could run into a lot of
board

1652
01:41:07,749 --> 01:41:12,155
of zoning appeals. Issues at the end of
the day.

1653
01:41:13,291 --> 01:41:19,788
And it— that all would come from how the
county decides what to do with the zoning.

1654
01:41:19,788 --> 01:41:24,484
So again, the land use plan informs future
zoning decisions.

1655
01:41:24,484 --> 01:41:29,806
And so if both working hand in hand, yes,
they do work hand in hand,

1656
01:41:29,806 --> 01:41:35,677
but nothing that we would put in a
comprehensive land use plan would result

1657
01:41:35,677 --> 01:41:35,990
comprehensive land use plan would result
in a

1658
01:41:35,990 --> 01:41:40,921
variance. You know, nothing— you can't get
a variant, you know,

1659
01:41:40,921 --> 01:41:47,496
from a recommendation or a guideline. You
know, it has to be from a code standpoint.

1660
01:41:47,496 --> 01:41:53,836
And so it's the whole point of this is
coming up with a vision for the county for

1661
01:41:53,836 --> 01:41:56,576
the future. So what is that vision?

1662
01:41:56,576 --> 01:42:02,916
And, you know, is that we want to keep and
allow our property owners to have The,

1663
01:42:02,916 --> 01:42:08,395
you know, the development rights that they
purchased and keep that is.

1664
01:42:08,395 --> 01:42:14,344
And if that's the vision, then we keep the
1-acre, you know, recommendation.

1665
01:42:14,344 --> 01:42:20,684
If the vision is we want to see bigger
parcels and preserve that land and we want

1666
01:42:20,684 --> 01:42:20,840
parcels and preserve that land and we want
to

1667
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:24,362
see more 5-acre lots, then that's the
vision.

1668
01:42:24,362 --> 01:42:30,781
You know, so I think it's— We can go in
whatever direction the county wants to go.

1669
01:42:30,781 --> 01:42:35,164
Regardless of what decisions have been
made in the past.

1670
01:42:35,164 --> 01:42:40,330
But that's what we're trying to figure out
is what is that vision?

1671
01:42:40,330 --> 01:42:43,906
Is that all you got, Sam?

1672
01:42:43,906 --> 01:42:44,307
Yeah.

1673
01:42:44,307 --> 01:42:47,691
All right. Ms. Notley, you're up. Hi.

1674
01:42:48,076 --> 01:42:51,685
It's kind of— I kind of feel like we're
spinning our wheels here.

1675
01:42:51,685 --> 01:42:51,845
Yeah.

1676
01:42:51,845 --> 01:42:55,789
Because every meeting we've had, it's like
you say, tell us what you want,

1677
01:42:55,789 --> 01:42:59,679
and we say things, and then you come back
and tell Tell us what you want.

1678
01:42:59,954 --> 01:43:02,131
So I'm a little bit lost with that.

1679
01:43:02,131 --> 01:43:05,242
But on the other aspect, what I would like
to see,

1680
01:43:05,242 --> 01:43:07,730
coming from an English major background,

1681
01:43:07,730 --> 01:43:12,022
I would love to see whatever's published
on the website be proofread.

1682
01:43:12,022 --> 01:43:12,700
Okay.

1683
01:43:12,700 --> 01:43:17,092
Because there are some, quite a few
grammatical errors. And where is Tate

1684
01:43:17,092 --> 01:43:17,634
grammatical errors. And where is Tate
Township?

1685
01:43:17,634 --> 01:43:18,777
Can I ask you that?

1686
01:43:18,777 --> 01:43:22,588
Oh, that's a— it's a township in Ohio that
is

1687
01:43:22,588 --> 01:43:26,569
another client. We just used a format from
that

1688
01:43:26,569 --> 01:43:26,992
plan.

1689
01:43:26,992 --> 01:43:29,047
So it was like a cut and paste mistake?

1690
01:43:29,047 --> 01:43:33,216
From a graphical standpoint, but none of
the information would be from them.

1691
01:43:33,216 --> 01:43:34,587
But yeah, we'll fix that.

1692
01:43:34,587 --> 01:43:34,924
Okay.

1693
01:43:34,924 --> 01:43:38,938
'Cause that's just, like, that's a
graphical page. Okay.

1694
01:43:38,938 --> 01:43:39,628
All right.

1695
01:43:39,628 --> 01:43:40,142
Thank you.

1696
01:43:40,142 --> 01:43:44,753
All right, so I asked you a question a
minute ago, what you wanted from us.

1697
01:43:44,753 --> 01:43:48,811
My next question to you is, are you
getting what you want from us?

1698
01:43:48,811 --> 01:43:53,914
And if you are not, spell it out what it
is you want from us so that we can give it

1699
01:43:53,914 --> 01:43:56,128
to you, so that we can move forward.

1700
01:43:56,128 --> 01:43:59,325
Because I agree with her, we're spinning
our wheels.

1701
01:43:59,325 --> 01:44:06,070
I think what I'm hearing is that this
commission is not comfortable giving

1702
01:44:06,070 --> 01:44:12,723
me a policy direction until they hear the
fiscal piece. Is that accurate?

1703
01:44:12,723 --> 01:44:16,577
Ladies and gentlemen, is that accurate?
Okay, my heads are shaking.

1704
01:44:16,577 --> 01:44:20,144
I'm seeing no heads. Go ahead, James.
We've talked about maps.

1705
01:44:20,144 --> 01:44:23,538
We need better maps about what we're
actually working with.

1706
01:44:23,538 --> 01:44:25,839
That's been alluded to many, many times.

1707
01:44:25,839 --> 01:44:28,888
I'm looking here at the proposed future
land use map,

1708
01:44:28,888 --> 01:44:31,821
and Commissioner or Chairman Previti
alluded to it.

1709
01:44:31,821 --> 01:44:36,136
We've got a lot of agriculture and
conservation out near 65, and, you know,

1710
01:44:36,136 --> 01:44:36,538
conservation out near 65, and, you know,
that's,

1711
01:44:36,538 --> 01:44:40,738
that's probably not realistic. Right. We
need a better map. End of story.

1712
01:44:40,738 --> 01:44:42,406
We need a better map of this.

1713
01:44:42,406 --> 01:44:46,088
And, you know, I realize you're not from
here and it's a lot of—

1714
01:44:46,088 --> 01:44:50,862
there's a whole lot of roads, a whole lot
of parcels. Call on us to help. I'm glad.

1715
01:44:50,862 --> 01:44:53,048
I'll give you my card before we leave.

1716
01:44:53,048 --> 01:44:57,593
I will help you as you see all these
little purples and yellows and we can look

1717
01:44:57,593 --> 01:44:57,708
little purples and yellows and we can look
at

1718
01:44:57,708 --> 01:45:02,022
individual parcels and I will help you
navigate through that as best I can.

1719
01:45:02,022 --> 01:45:02,965
I would love help.

1720
01:45:03,393 --> 01:45:09,546
Yeah. All right. So So you asked a
question and I saw several

1721
01:45:09,546 --> 01:45:15,497
people shake their head no. So what is it
you want from us?

1722
01:45:15,497 --> 01:45:20,673
Okay. So if— do you all have
recommendations on where we should go from

1723
01:45:20,673 --> 01:45:21,256
recommendations on where we should go from
a policy

1724
01:45:21,256 --> 01:45:22,058
standpoint?

1725
01:45:22,058 --> 01:45:26,425
Ball's in your court. Okay.

1726
01:45:27,374 --> 01:45:32,562
Go ahead. I want some more financial
information and I would like the median

1727
01:45:32,562 --> 01:45:32,835
information and I would like the median
Home

1728
01:45:32,835 --> 01:45:38,569
value if we do 5, if we do 1. I'm a little
torn between those 2 options. I own land.

1729
01:45:38,569 --> 01:45:42,255
I don't want anybody to tell me how to
sell that land.

1730
01:45:42,255 --> 01:45:43,962
I understand all of this,

1731
01:45:43,962 --> 01:45:49,696
but I also understand the next generation
in my family can't afford a home in Murray

1732
01:45:49,696 --> 01:45:53,928
County. I want to see the difference in a
5-acre and a 1-acre,

1733
01:45:53,928 --> 01:45:57,956
and I don't know if this could come up in
the fiscal study,

1734
01:45:57,956 --> 01:46:00,823
but also With the jobs we hope to attract,

1735
01:46:00,823 --> 01:46:06,488
are local people who want to stay in our
community going to be able to afford these

1736
01:46:06,488 --> 01:46:06,898
homes?

1737
01:46:06,898 --> 01:46:09,115
And I think that's a—

1738
01:46:10,857 --> 01:46:15,520
I would love to live on 5 acres in Murray
County. I think that would be wonderful.

1739
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:17,965
It's not in my financial picture right
now.

1740
01:46:17,965 --> 01:46:19,842
Will we be able to produce folks,

1741
01:46:19,842 --> 01:46:23,822
young people who want to stay here that
could buy those 5-acre tracts?

1742
01:46:23,822 --> 01:46:28,599
That's what I would like to hear, some of
that information before I make a decision.

1743
01:46:28,599 --> 01:46:32,774
Is that all you have, Dawn?

1744
01:46:32,774 --> 01:46:33,662
Yes.

1745
01:46:33,662 --> 01:46:36,469
Okay. Travis, you're up. Go ahead.

1746
01:46:36,469 --> 01:46:41,835
Yeah, I think information on the projected
impact on tax revenue,

1747
01:46:41,835 --> 01:46:44,808
property tax revenue for the county,

1748
01:46:44,808 --> 01:46:51,495
trying to make a decision on that policy
without that information would be really

1749
01:46:51,495 --> 01:46:57,687
difficult. Anybody else? All right. So did
that help you get what you need?

1750
01:46:57,687 --> 01:47:01,815
Are we any farther off than we were 5
minutes ago?

1751
01:47:01,815 --> 01:47:09,053
We will bring the fiscal analysis to the
next meeting, and I think that will help.

1752
01:47:09,053 --> 01:47:14,438
I think from a mapping standpoint and
information standpoint,

1753
01:47:14,438 --> 01:47:21,588
I'd I would be happy to get feedback on
things and more information and help from

1754
01:47:21,588 --> 01:47:24,501
you all as a committee and staff.

1755
01:47:24,501 --> 01:47:31,298
You know, because again, if I'm only ever
getting feedback in these meetings,

1756
01:47:31,298 --> 01:47:36,241
then that's— we're not going to get where
we need to go.

1757
01:47:36,241 --> 01:47:39,154
And so we can try and figure out—

1758
01:47:39,154 --> 01:47:42,283
Google Maps is a big help too. There's a
lot of stuff on Google Maps as well.

1759
01:47:43,014 --> 01:47:44,752
And I know that, and we have that.

1760
01:47:44,752 --> 01:47:49,949
Okay. All right. Anybody else have
anything to say?

1761
01:47:49,949 --> 01:47:54,228
All right, go ahead, proceed, ma'am. Yeah.

1762
01:47:54,228 --> 01:47:58,202
Do you have anything else tonight then?

1763
01:47:58,202 --> 01:48:04,316
Okay, so that said, the next item on the
agenda are the next

1764
01:48:04,316 --> 01:48:09,309
steps. So the next— wait a minute. I'm
sorry, Ms.

1765
01:48:09,309 --> 01:48:11,041
Notley, go ahead.

1766
01:48:11,041 --> 01:48:12,674
No, just next.

1767
01:48:12,674 --> 01:48:17,614
Okay, you're up for— okay, so the next
item on the agenda are next steps.

1768
01:48:17,614 --> 01:48:22,758
Item A is schedule advisory committee
meeting number 5, so it looks like, it

1769
01:48:22,758 --> 01:48:23,164
meeting number 5, so it looks like, it
looks,

1770
01:48:23,164 --> 01:48:28,172
you know, we had 5 people absent tonight,
and they were important players.

1771
01:48:28,172 --> 01:48:33,316
I mean, we had our water representative
and also the school board people, Of

1772
01:48:33,316 --> 01:48:33,789
and also the school board people, Of
course,

1773
01:48:33,789 --> 01:48:37,715
I understand they had problems that they
had to deal with,

1774
01:48:37,715 --> 01:48:41,911
but we need to try to come up with a
scenario where, you know,

1775
01:48:41,911 --> 01:48:44,821
we can get as many people here as
possible.

1776
01:48:44,821 --> 01:48:48,543
So the month of October, what does
everybody feel like?

1777
01:48:48,543 --> 01:48:50,741
The 15th.

1778
01:48:50,741 --> 01:48:52,360
The 15th is a Thursday.

1779
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:57,500
All right, there again, I would suggest
6:30 to let everybody get a meal.

1780
01:48:57,500 --> 01:49:01,302
So Thursday the 15th, how's everybody feel
about that?

1781
01:49:01,608 --> 01:49:03,271
I don't think it matters, but I'm out of
town.

1782
01:49:03,271 --> 01:49:04,330
I'm sorry?

1783
01:49:04,330 --> 01:49:06,694
I'm out of town, but y'all don't schedule
that.

1784
01:49:06,694 --> 01:49:13,531
Okay. All right, so let's plan for the
15th at 6:30 then. You can't make it?

1785
01:49:13,531 --> 01:49:16,606
No, no, I'm literally out of town. Oh,
okay.

1786
01:49:16,606 --> 01:49:18,863
I can't always be here, so y'all do—

1787
01:49:18,863 --> 01:49:20,613
When can you be here?

1788
01:49:20,613 --> 01:49:27,366
Yeah, when can you be here? The 14th?
Wednesday the 14th?

1789
01:49:27,366 --> 01:49:31,039
Well, we won't start till 6:30.

1790
01:49:31,039 --> 01:49:35,778
Okay, I know Wednesday's a church— well,

1791
01:49:35,778 --> 01:49:41,583
Wednesday's the church night for a lot of
people,

1792
01:49:41,583 --> 01:49:47,625
but how do y'all feel about that? Tuesday
the 13th?

1793
01:49:47,625 --> 01:49:55,326
Tuesday the 13th looks good. Well, I've
got a meeting that night.

1794
01:49:55,326 --> 01:50:00,776
Yeah, I got a class I have to take that
night.

1795
01:50:00,776 --> 01:50:08,832
Drop down to next week. The following
week. 22nd? Thursday the 22nd?

1796
01:50:08,832 --> 01:50:16,178
Nope, I got to— I got to take my wife to a
concert that night.

1797
01:50:16,178 --> 01:50:22,338
I don't know what y'all— Tuesday the 20th.
The 20th.

1798
01:50:22,338 --> 01:50:27,788
I got a class that night. I got a class.
Yeah.

1799
01:50:27,788 --> 01:50:32,646
Yeah, Tuesday nights I got, I got school.

1800
01:50:32,646 --> 01:50:36,911
Well, um, how about Monday the 26th?

1801
01:50:36,911 --> 01:50:41,650
Uh, no, that's— no, that's the 4th week.

1802
01:50:41,650 --> 01:50:49,232
I mean, I've got— I mean, there's— I've
got meetings that night,

1803
01:50:49,232 --> 01:50:55,630
but this is important. So what about
Tuesday the 27th?

1804
01:50:55,630 --> 01:51:02,383
Tuesday the 27th? Tuesday the 27th. We got
a winner. Yes.

1805
01:51:02,802 --> 01:51:03,172
Okay.

1806
01:51:03,172 --> 01:51:06,619
You can be here then? Yeah. All right.

1807
01:51:06,619 --> 01:51:13,876
So next item on that is B, schedule public
engagement event number 4. All right.

1808
01:51:13,876 --> 01:51:21,224
So first of all, where are we going to do
that at? Where do you want to do it at?

1809
01:51:21,224 --> 01:51:27,664
You want a school? You want a memorial
building or something like that?

1810
01:51:27,664 --> 01:51:34,377
We can get about 300 people in the
memorial building. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

1811
01:51:34,377 --> 01:51:34,921
memorial building. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Who's—

1812
01:51:34,921 --> 01:51:40,634
I mean, and I think we could, we could
discuss location. Um, Kind of offline.

1813
01:51:40,634 --> 01:51:45,828
I think probably if we thought about
timing in terms of like a week or

1814
01:51:45,828 --> 01:51:46,496
timing in terms of like a week or
something

1815
01:51:46,496 --> 01:51:52,357
like that, that might be helpful so we
could at least start scheduling and then

1816
01:51:52,357 --> 01:51:52,580
could at least start scheduling and then
you

1817
01:51:52,580 --> 01:51:56,884
guys could look out for room options and
things like that.

1818
01:51:56,884 --> 01:52:01,558
I mean, wherever you all think is, is the
best place to gather.

1819
01:52:01,558 --> 01:52:05,857
Well, I mean, you know, we've been to the
satellite.

1820
01:52:05,857 --> 01:52:09,412
You know, the communities with the
schools.

1821
01:52:09,412 --> 01:52:16,108
We did— I think the Memorial Building is a
good choice because people can come in

1822
01:52:16,108 --> 01:52:22,886
and out. You can't do it during the day
because of the civic clubs that have their

1823
01:52:22,886 --> 01:52:29,748
meetings in those, but possibly a Thursday
night or a Tuesday night at the Memorial

1824
01:52:29,748 --> 01:52:30,492
Building.

1825
01:52:30,492 --> 01:52:30,754
Okay.

1826
01:52:30,840 --> 01:52:32,173
And that's not hard to get.

1827
01:52:32,173 --> 01:52:33,160
We just have to get—

1828
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:36,812
I got to check with the visitors bureau
just to make sure that there's not

1829
01:52:36,812 --> 01:52:37,207
just to make sure that there's not
somebody

1830
01:52:37,207 --> 01:52:39,230
that's got a meeting in there that night.

1831
01:52:39,230 --> 01:52:42,932
Um, but we can run that through the
mayor's office and the visitors bureau.

1832
01:52:42,932 --> 01:52:46,831
So we'll, we'll come up with some dates
for that, but I would— don't you agree,

1833
01:52:46,831 --> 01:52:50,828
Mayor Butt? Don't you think the Memorial
Building would probably be a good choice

1834
01:52:50,828 --> 01:52:50,927
Building would probably be a good choice
at

1835
01:52:50,927 --> 01:52:51,470
this point?

1836
01:52:51,470 --> 01:52:52,610
Would be a great choice.

1837
01:52:52,610 --> 01:52:55,340
Yeah, I think just the Memorial Building,
and we'll just find a date for it.

1838
01:52:55,340 --> 01:52:58,679
And, um, So I think maybe either the week
of the 9th or the 16th.

1839
01:52:58,679 --> 01:53:02,365
Obviously, we don't want to get into
Thanksgiving week.

1840
01:53:05,365 --> 01:53:06,426
So—

1841
01:53:07,970 --> 01:53:12,417
and with— if we have the advisory
committee meeting on the 27th,

1842
01:53:12,417 --> 01:53:17,768
we would want enough time for us to kind
of revise things or prepare for that

1843
01:53:17,768 --> 01:53:19,158
meeting. So I think—

1844
01:53:19,158 --> 01:53:22,778
So there again, I would suggest Thursday
the 15th, that evening.

1845
01:53:22,778 --> 01:53:26,851
Which was our first meeting choice, but
Christy couldn't be at that one.

1846
01:53:26,851 --> 01:53:27,911
No, that was October.

1847
01:53:27,911 --> 01:53:29,790
I'm sorry, that's what I meant, October.

1848
01:53:29,790 --> 01:53:33,788
We need November.

1849
01:53:33,788 --> 01:53:36,437
November? Why would you want to—

1850
01:53:36,453 --> 01:53:41,544
you don't want to have the public input
one before our next

1851
01:53:41,544 --> 01:53:46,893
advisory meeting? I thought that if you
all wanted the public—

1852
01:53:46,893 --> 01:53:51,898
the fiscal impact analysis before we kind
of go out to the

1853
01:53:51,898 --> 01:53:52,502
public.

1854
01:53:52,502 --> 01:53:56,409
Then Thursday the 12th, November 12th,

1855
01:53:56,409 --> 01:53:59,700
based on the availability of the

1856
01:53:59,700 --> 01:54:00,625
building.

1857
01:54:00,625 --> 01:54:01,367
Yeah.

1858
01:54:01,367 --> 01:54:06,352
All right, I'll get with the Visitors
Bureau and verify that. Ms.

1859
01:54:06,352 --> 01:54:12,026
Notley, you're up, ma'am. My question is
on the public engagement meeting.

1860
01:54:12,026 --> 01:54:15,094
Will there be a different format So far,

1861
01:54:15,094 --> 01:54:20,385
nobody's been happy with the format of
sticky dots, you know, kind of

1862
01:54:20,385 --> 01:54:21,382
sticky dots, you know, kind of
presentation.

1863
01:54:21,430 --> 01:54:23,663
So how do we get around that?

1864
01:54:23,663 --> 01:54:28,667
So we— I mean, we can do meetings in any
number of format styles.

1865
01:54:28,667 --> 01:54:34,672
I think probably we'll be looking for
feedback from the public on kind of land

1866
01:54:34,672 --> 01:54:34,903
feedback from the public on kind of land
use

1867
01:54:34,903 --> 01:54:36,751
scenarios of the 1 to 5.

1868
01:54:36,751 --> 01:54:40,677
So I think it— we might need to think
through that—

1869
01:54:40,677 --> 01:54:46,529
—of kind of what would work the best, you
know, because sometimes, you know,

1870
01:54:46,529 --> 01:54:52,457
is it a presentation with information on
things? Is it, you know, is it maps?

1871
01:54:52,457 --> 01:54:55,845
I mean, I don't have an answer for that
yet.

1872
01:54:55,845 --> 01:55:01,542
Okay, what has worked well for you in
other areas to get public engagement

1873
01:55:01,542 --> 01:55:02,004
other areas to get public engagement
going?

1874
01:55:02,004 --> 01:55:07,470
It, you know, things that work in one
community doesn't work in another

1875
01:55:07,470 --> 01:55:08,240
community doesn't work in another
community.

1876
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:14,168
Frankly, we do a lot of public, very
successful public meetings with maps and

1877
01:55:14,168 --> 01:55:14,553
successful public meetings with maps and
dots.

1878
01:55:14,553 --> 01:55:18,711
But again, that's not going to work in
every location.

1879
01:55:18,711 --> 01:55:24,408
And so we tailor every event to figure out
what works best in a community.

1880
01:55:24,408 --> 01:55:28,950
And so I can brainstorm with the county
staff and You know,

1881
01:55:28,950 --> 01:55:35,109
if we wanna kind of put some ideas out to
the committee in an email or something

1882
01:55:35,109 --> 01:55:37,881
like that, I'm happy to do that too.

1883
01:55:37,881 --> 01:55:44,271
Okay, maybe we can think about that as a
committee at the next meeting as to what a

1884
01:55:44,271 --> 01:55:45,888
good format would be.

1885
01:55:45,888 --> 01:55:50,546
We'll make that an agenda item on the next
meeting. Sure, I can add that.

1886
01:55:50,546 --> 01:55:53,673
Now also remember, remember on that next
meeting,

1887
01:55:53,673 --> 01:55:58,204
we're gonna have presentations from
persons that want to say something.

1888
01:55:58,204 --> 01:56:01,777
All right, yes, sir. Is it James? Yeah,
James, go ahead.

1889
01:56:01,777 --> 01:56:06,627
It would be my preference at the next
public engagement meeting that we have

1890
01:56:06,627 --> 01:56:06,882
public engagement meeting that we have
some

1891
01:56:06,882 --> 01:56:12,179
kind of presentation-style meeting where
we're explaining, here's what we're doing,

1892
01:56:12,179 --> 01:56:16,518
here's kind of the ideas, lay it out in
bullet points if we have to,

1893
01:56:16,518 --> 01:56:21,432
and just lay it all out on the table
instead of people just wandering around.

1894
01:56:21,432 --> 01:56:24,750
Because I just— It doesn't work for us. I
echo that.

1895
01:56:24,750 --> 01:56:28,834
That didn't work for Murray County. And we
can have it a hybrid.

1896
01:56:28,834 --> 01:56:33,492
We can have, all right, here's the
presentation, Here's what we're doing,

1897
01:56:33,492 --> 01:56:36,491
and then have a, uh, community talk
afterwards,

1898
01:56:36,491 --> 01:56:40,129
standing around eating cheese and
crackers. I don't know.

1899
01:56:40,129 --> 01:56:43,894
Well, and we'll have a public comment
period because every—

1900
01:56:43,894 --> 01:56:48,616
because the people were disappointed that
they couldn't speak. Yeah, sure.

1901
01:56:48,616 --> 01:56:52,189
I mean, we need that. We'll be at the
Memorial Building.

1902
01:56:52,189 --> 01:56:56,848
We'll get up on stage, have that
presentation, bring the giant, you know,

1903
01:56:56,848 --> 01:57:00,357
and show the maps, but also maybe in the
back have her—

1904
01:57:00,357 --> 01:57:03,931
the dots and the maps and that in the
back, if optional,

1905
01:57:03,931 --> 01:57:05,845
if that's what you want to do.

1906
01:57:05,845 --> 01:57:09,674
But other than that, we have the chairs
set up Yes, I agree.

1907
01:57:09,674 --> 01:57:12,354
If the Memorial Building is not available,

1908
01:57:12,354 --> 01:57:15,609
I'll check with my office at Yanalli Park
for that.

1909
01:57:15,609 --> 01:57:20,586
And we can probably also get a church,
probably, you know, we'll make it work.

1910
01:57:20,586 --> 01:57:20,905
probably, you know, we'll make it work.
Yeah.

1911
01:57:20,905 --> 01:57:25,053
Okay. All right. So, so we're looking at
Thursday, November 12th,

1912
01:57:25,053 --> 01:57:27,541
based on availability for that meeting.

1913
01:57:27,541 --> 01:57:31,243
Our next meeting is going to be October
27th on a Tuesday.

1914
01:57:31,243 --> 01:57:35,135
Um, our next item on the agenda is the
public comment period.

1915
01:57:35,135 --> 01:57:37,050
I have got 3 people signed up.

1916
01:57:37,050 --> 01:57:41,453
I also have, uh, I have a public comment
here that was emailed to me,

1917
01:57:41,453 --> 01:57:44,835
and they told me that they had to get on
an airplane,

1918
01:57:44,835 --> 01:57:47,004
and they've asked me to read this.

1919
01:57:47,004 --> 01:57:51,280
And so I'm going to do it, um, and then
I'll let the other 3 speak.

1920
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:55,172
This is from a Jason Strain. Um, he says,
city versus county.

1921
01:57:55,172 --> 01:58:00,341
He said, there seems to be a widespread
misconception among county citizens about

1922
01:58:00,341 --> 01:58:05,063
the distinction between properties in the
cities of Columbia, Spring Hill,

1923
01:58:05,063 --> 01:58:09,849
Mount Pleasant, Versus properties outside
the city limits in Murray County.

1924
01:58:09,849 --> 01:58:14,890
I have seen a fair number of people on
social media complaining and criticizing

1925
01:58:14,890 --> 01:58:20,187
Murray County officials for the growth in
the areas such as Neapolis along Columbia

1926
01:58:20,187 --> 01:58:25,292
and Highway 31. That area is in the city
limits of Columbia and has no access to

1927
01:58:25,292 --> 01:58:28,546
sewer, which allows for higher density
development.

1928
01:58:28,546 --> 01:58:32,630
Murray County has 1-acre minimum lots
required already in place.

1929
01:58:32,630 --> 01:58:36,459
What's wrong with a 1-acre lot? Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

1930
01:58:36,459 --> 01:58:39,714
It allows for plenty of space between
those houses.

1931
01:58:39,714 --> 01:58:44,436
Most people don't want to maintain more
than 1 acre. The county is not the

1932
01:58:44,436 --> 01:58:44,946
than 1 acre. The county is not the
problem.

1933
01:58:44,946 --> 01:58:48,839
Be careful of what you wish for. Every
action has a reaction.

1934
01:58:48,839 --> 01:58:53,306
If a 5-acre minimum is placed in the vast
majority of the county land,

1935
01:58:53,306 --> 01:58:55,156
I foresee 3 things happening.

1936
01:58:55,156 --> 01:58:59,176
More land will be annexed into the city
limits for development.

1937
01:58:59,176 --> 01:59:01,665
That means higher-density developments.

1938
01:59:01,665 --> 01:59:06,706
That means more national tract builder
homes that many people complain about in

1939
01:59:06,706 --> 01:59:06,962
homes that many people complain about in
some

1940
01:59:06,962 --> 01:59:11,747
of social media. Number 2, more people
will be pushed into Lawrence, Giles,

1941
01:59:11,747 --> 01:59:16,151
Marshall, and Lewis Counties to buy or
build a house on a 1-acre lot.

1942
01:59:16,151 --> 01:59:21,447
What happens next is the traffic on Murray
County roads will be even more congested

1943
01:59:21,447 --> 01:59:26,233
with people from other counties driving
through Murray County to Nashville,

1944
01:59:26,233 --> 01:59:31,210
Cool Springs, and other job centers in
Middle Tennessee each morning to get to

1945
01:59:31,210 --> 01:59:31,529
Middle Tennessee each morning to get to
work.

1946
01:59:31,529 --> 01:59:36,379
Murray County will be getting zero tax
dollars from these people but will be

1947
01:59:36,379 --> 01:59:36,826
dollars from these people but will be
getting

1948
01:59:36,826 --> 01:59:40,591
all of the traffic. Next is, I have so
much to say on this,

1949
01:59:40,591 --> 01:59:44,228
but 3 minutes isn't much time, so I'll
wrap up with this.

1950
01:59:44,228 --> 01:59:49,333
People move out of the county because they
don't want an HOA or a bunch of rules

1951
01:59:49,333 --> 01:59:51,630
dictating how they can and can't do.

1952
01:59:51,630 --> 01:59:56,927
Why is Murray County even entertaining a
push to 5-acre minimum by people who don't

1953
01:59:56,927 --> 02:00:02,159
want neighbors and want to impose their
wishes and ideals onto people who actually

1954
02:00:02,159 --> 02:00:07,456
paid hard-earned money for their land? One
more thing, can we stop saying farmland?

1955
02:00:07,456 --> 02:00:12,625
Yes, A lot of Murray County land is zoned
as agricultural, but there aren't many—

1956
02:00:12,625 --> 02:00:16,900
that many farmers in Murray County where
food is actually produced.

1957
02:00:16,900 --> 02:00:19,836
That is the definition of farm producing
food.

1958
02:00:19,836 --> 02:00:22,962
Save Our Farmland is just a fearmongering
slogan.

1959
02:00:22,962 --> 02:00:25,579
No one is pushing farmers off their land.

1960
02:00:25,579 --> 02:00:30,620
That's just code speak for I don't want
neighbors. So let's call it what it is.

1961
02:00:30,620 --> 02:00:35,852
And God bless the actual farmers for the
work that they do. And he says thank you.

1962
02:00:35,852 --> 02:00:38,724
All right, so that said, uh, the next
person—

1963
02:00:38,724 --> 02:00:41,787
first person signed up to speak is Pater
Jensen,

1964
02:00:41,787 --> 02:00:46,190
and we know who you are at this point, so
you'll have 3 minutes, sir.

1965
02:00:46,190 --> 02:00:50,912
Let me reset this. Uh, no. Well, it got
brought up here. I don't remember.

1966
02:00:50,912 --> 02:00:55,251
Somebody brought it up here to me because
I did leave it back there,

1967
02:00:55,251 --> 02:00:57,676
but somebody brought it up here to me.

1968
02:00:57,676 --> 02:01:02,399
I'm gonna go ahead and send it back real
quick, and while Pater's talking,

1969
02:01:02,399 --> 02:01:06,993
if somebody else wants to speak, sign up
real quick. Ready, set, and go.

1970
02:01:06,993 --> 02:01:11,970
All right, quickly, I think you all need
to start over. We don't have accurate

1971
02:01:11,970 --> 02:01:12,289
to start over. We don't have accurate
data.

1972
02:01:12,289 --> 02:01:16,118
You don't have the accurate data, do not
start this process.

1973
02:01:16,118 --> 02:01:18,224
Let's have our maps, Google Maps.

1974
02:01:18,224 --> 02:01:21,478
I don't care how you get it, get the
accurate data.

1975
02:01:21,478 --> 02:01:25,180
If it costs money, tell us how much it
costs. Start there.

1976
02:01:25,180 --> 02:01:28,051
Why are we putting the cart before the
horse?

1977
02:01:28,051 --> 02:01:32,965
Stop trying to change something if you
don't even know what's currently here.

1978
02:01:32,965 --> 02:01:37,113
In Murray County. The first map I saw
didn't even include Atheta.

1979
02:01:37,113 --> 02:01:41,388
That tells me exactly how important it is
to get the details right.

1980
02:01:41,388 --> 02:01:43,047
When it comes to industry,

1981
02:01:43,047 --> 02:01:47,705
I would like to think about how we can
preserve more farmland while still

1982
02:01:47,705 --> 02:01:48,280
preserve more farmland while still
welcoming

1983
02:01:48,280 --> 02:01:53,066
economic growth. I think Saturn gave us an
incredible example 30 years ago.

1984
02:01:53,066 --> 02:01:57,596
For years driving down Nashville Highway,
you saw row crop agriculture.

1985
02:01:57,596 --> 02:02:02,127
On GM land, not a giant industrial
facility dominating the landscaping.

1986
02:02:02,127 --> 02:02:06,147
The industry was there but was
thoughtfully integrated into the

1987
02:02:06,147 --> 02:02:06,977
thoughtfully integrated into the
surroundings.

1988
02:02:06,977 --> 02:02:08,891
I like that for Murray County.

1989
02:02:08,891 --> 02:02:13,932
Today, our newer industrial development
that was forced upon us by the state of

1990
02:02:13,932 --> 02:02:18,655
Tennessee did not come through the
Planning Commission because I sat right

1991
02:02:18,655 --> 02:02:19,165
Planning Commission because I sat right
there on

1992
02:02:19,165 --> 02:02:23,632
this committee, didn't have landscaping
buffers, didn't have anything.

1993
02:02:23,632 --> 02:02:28,354
I had to fight tooth and nail to get trees
planted to hide ugly buildings.

1994
02:02:28,354 --> 02:02:32,310
Let's have stronger landscape agreements,
screening standards.

1995
02:02:32,310 --> 02:02:37,479
All of these things need to be part of
Murray County the way it was 30 years ago.

1996
02:02:37,479 --> 02:02:40,606
Why did we stop allowing farmland in front
of GM?

1997
02:02:40,606 --> 02:02:45,328
Finally, I don't believe preserving
agricultural means putting 5-acre lots

1998
02:02:45,328 --> 02:02:46,987
everywhere in this county.

1999
02:02:46,987 --> 02:02:51,263
1-acre, 5-acre, it still takes
agricultural land out of production.

2000
02:02:51,263 --> 02:02:54,900
It requires additional water for large
lawns, irrigation,

2001
02:02:54,900 --> 02:02:58,601
and turning working farmland into
residential grass yards.

2002
02:02:58,601 --> 02:03:02,047
Instead, let's look at conservation-style
development.

2003
02:03:02,047 --> 02:03:05,365
We talk about Williamson County a lot.
They have it.

2004
02:03:05,365 --> 02:03:10,343
You can do a 500-acre farm and put 50
houses on it and still farm 480 acres of

2005
02:03:10,343 --> 02:03:10,534
houses on it and still farm 480 acres of
it.

2006
02:03:10,534 --> 02:03:13,533
There's ways to do this correctly with
density.

2007
02:03:13,533 --> 02:03:16,277
It's not a bad word if you do it
correctly.

2008
02:03:16,277 --> 02:03:21,255
Let's not take a map of Murray County and
simply color it with one big crayon.

2009
02:03:21,255 --> 02:03:23,935
That's what I feel like we saw last month.

2010
02:03:23,935 --> 02:03:29,040
We don't need one green crayon for our
entire county except for our urban growth

2011
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:31,975
boundaries. We have the technology. It's
2026.

2012
02:03:31,975 --> 02:03:34,528
Let's get the data right and then start.

2013
02:03:34,528 --> 02:03:39,378
Let's build a plan that is specific enough
to recognize what already exists,

2014
02:03:39,378 --> 02:03:42,121
flexible enough to respect property
owners,

2015
02:03:42,121 --> 02:03:47,290
and thoughtful enough to guide the growth
that's here currently and continuing to

2016
02:03:47,290 --> 02:03:52,012
come. I believe we can protect Murray
County's rural character while still

2017
02:03:52,012 --> 02:03:52,587
County's rural character while still
welcoming

2018
02:03:52,587 --> 02:03:56,096
businesses, industry, families, and
responsible growth.

2019
02:03:56,096 --> 02:04:00,563
Thank you again for your service and
taking the time for the important

2020
02:04:00,563 --> 02:04:01,393
taking the time for the important
department of

2021
02:04:01,393 --> 02:04:06,434
Murray County. Thank you, sir. Appreciate
it. Oh, right on time too. Good deal.

2022
02:04:06,434 --> 02:04:11,794
All right. And next person up is going to
be Daniel Ajan. Did I say that? I'm sorry.

2023
02:04:11,794 --> 02:04:13,134
Ajan. Very good, sir.

2024
02:04:13,134 --> 02:04:18,367
Please come up, state your name and your
district, and you'll have 3 minutes, sir.

2025
02:04:18,367 --> 02:04:21,302
Thank you. My name is Daniel Ajan,
District 5.

2026
02:04:21,302 --> 02:04:25,067
I'm planning on listening tonight, but I
thought, you know,

2027
02:04:25,067 --> 02:04:29,088
I live on 4.7 acres just north of Oak Lake
off of Clara Mathis.

2028
02:04:29,088 --> 02:04:34,193
The entire neighborhood, if you go up
Clara Mathis, is 5 acres, 2 acres, 1 acre.

2029
02:04:34,193 --> 02:04:39,298
I'm on 4.7. I moved here. I came from 0.4
acres, moved to 4.7. I had 1 chainsaw.

2030
02:04:39,298 --> 02:04:43,318
I now have 4. Nobody's talked about trees.
We live in a jungle.

2031
02:04:43,318 --> 02:04:48,423
Forcing every landowner to take care of 5
acres is an undue burden on the Murray

2032
02:04:48,423 --> 02:04:51,231
County residents. I like running a
chainsaw,

2033
02:04:51,231 --> 02:04:55,123
but I'm not going to cut down every tree
in the neighborhood.

2034
02:04:55,123 --> 02:04:58,441
We had a mass— we have a problem with our
ash trees.

2035
02:04:58,441 --> 02:05:02,462
There's a huge ash tree going right next
to where my kids play.

2036
02:05:02,462 --> 02:05:04,376
I brought one of my boys here.

2037
02:05:04,376 --> 02:05:09,162
Cost $2,000 for my neighbors who are
retired on a limited budget to pay for

2038
02:05:09,162 --> 02:05:09,481
retired on a limited budget to pay for
that.

2039
02:05:09,481 --> 02:05:13,948
By forcing people to manage the jungle, we
get more rain than Seattle.

2040
02:05:13,948 --> 02:05:18,798
And so I think we need to think about the
unintended consequences of forcing

2041
02:05:18,798 --> 02:05:23,520
everyone to maintain 5 acres. I choose it.
I like it. Some people love it.

2042
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:26,774
I love 5 acres, but the restrictions drive
me nuts.

2043
02:05:26,774 --> 02:05:31,879
You know, I can't subdivide my land. I got
deed restrictions. I can have horses.

2044
02:05:31,879 --> 02:05:37,239
I can't have cows. All this stuff is just
nuts. This country was founded on freedom.

2045
02:05:37,239 --> 02:05:42,344
I got 6 kids and you're telling me I'm
going to need at least 35 acres if I want

2046
02:05:42,344 --> 02:05:42,472
going to need at least 35 acres if I want
to

2047
02:05:42,472 --> 02:05:46,684
keep my family together and everybody has
to have their own house?

2048
02:05:46,684 --> 02:05:48,789
You're going to force us outside.

2049
02:05:48,789 --> 02:05:52,937
I live in Murray County because I can't
afford Williamson County.

2050
02:05:52,937 --> 02:05:54,405
But now we're going to—

2051
02:05:54,405 --> 02:05:59,638
I'm going to have my kids living in Giles
or Lewis because they can't afford to be

2052
02:05:59,638 --> 02:06:04,615
close to me and I can't afford to be close
to my in-laws who are in Williamson

2053
02:06:04,615 --> 02:06:09,784
County. So my whole point is this country
was founded on freedom. Let us be free.

2054
02:06:09,784 --> 02:06:14,697
And if we want some sort of net solution,
I think that I can understand that.

2055
02:06:14,697 --> 02:06:18,590
I used to live on 0.4 acres and I loved
it. That was perfect.

2056
02:06:18,590 --> 02:06:23,121
I had 4 kids, 5 kids there. It was a great
size. But we also had parks.

2057
02:06:23,121 --> 02:06:26,375
We had better infrastructure. We had a
road system.

2058
02:06:26,375 --> 02:06:30,651
This was up in North Idaho before I moved
down here. I'm a realtor.

2059
02:06:30,651 --> 02:06:35,692
I just sold 0.75 acres to a starter home
in Lewisburg to a couple that works in

2060
02:06:35,692 --> 02:06:35,947
in Lewisburg to a couple that works in
Cool

2061
02:06:35,947 --> 02:06:40,031
Springs. They're having to commute all
this way. They love 0.75.

2062
02:06:40,031 --> 02:06:43,413
Why are we even saying an acre? Why not
half an acre?

2063
02:06:43,413 --> 02:06:46,285
I mean, but if we want to preserve
something,

2064
02:06:46,285 --> 02:06:51,007
I don't even think it has to be 1 versus
5. Some people want half an acre.

2065
02:06:51,007 --> 02:06:56,048
So the entire county is on lockdown for an
acre. How does that even make sense?

2066
02:06:56,048 --> 02:07:00,323
If you've ever lived on half an acre,
that's a good amount of land.

2067
02:07:00,323 --> 02:07:05,492
The septic system is going to force us to
have fairly big lots if we're on septic

2068
02:07:05,492 --> 02:07:06,768
anyway. I know that.

2069
02:07:06,768 --> 02:07:12,065
The reason why I have 5 acres is because
they couldn't perk more than 3 bedrooms in

2070
02:07:12,065 --> 02:07:15,128
the entire— on my entire lot because it's
rocky.

2071
02:07:15,128 --> 02:07:18,127
So one size fits all doesn't really make
sense.

2072
02:07:18,127 --> 02:07:22,977
You know, the lady across the street from
me, she's on 1 acre. She's single.

2073
02:07:22,977 --> 02:07:27,189
She has to pay to mow all of that. And
again, we live in a jungle.

2074
02:07:27,189 --> 02:07:32,102
So let's not force people, everyone to
manage that. Thank you. Appreciate it.

2075
02:07:32,102 --> 02:07:35,867
All right. Yes, sir. Thank you for that.
Let me clear this.

2076
02:07:35,867 --> 02:07:38,547
All right, Bobby Mitchell, you're up next.

2077
02:07:38,547 --> 02:07:40,270
And while you're coming up,

2078
02:07:40,270 --> 02:07:44,673
I want to kill these projectors because
they're getting on my nerves.

2079
02:07:44,673 --> 02:07:48,374
Bobby Mitchell, come on up. I think you're
Bobby Mitchell.

2080
02:07:48,374 --> 02:07:52,586
Bobby Mitchell, everybody. Shared office
space next to Mr. Dogger.

2081
02:07:52,586 --> 02:07:55,266
I'm actually Chris Scrambling, District 9.

2082
02:07:55,266 --> 02:07:59,095
Um, I said something really stupid before
I want to correct.

2083
02:07:59,095 --> 02:08:04,072
Um, I'm really, really tired. Um, Double
Branch is in the county. I knew that.

2084
02:08:04,072 --> 02:08:07,710
I was just spacing out. Um, a couple
quick, quick things.

2085
02:08:07,710 --> 02:08:10,071
I wanted to finish what I was saying.

2086
02:08:10,071 --> 02:08:14,920
Uh, owning agricultural land does not mean
someone is automatically entitled

2087
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:18,558
Entitled to whatever subdivision density,
infrastructure,

2088
02:08:18,558 --> 02:08:21,812
or land use change would maximize its
resale value.

2089
02:08:21,812 --> 02:08:25,641
Agricultural preservation isn't contrary
to property rights.

2090
02:08:25,641 --> 02:08:30,937
It's recognition that the property rights
of the people who are already here matter

2091
02:08:30,937 --> 02:08:35,404
too. And I think that we need to—
obviously, we got to get these maps.

2092
02:08:35,404 --> 02:08:36,936
We have to get the data.

2093
02:08:36,936 --> 02:08:41,147
I, I can't tell you how much I agree with
Pater, you know, for Me,

2094
02:08:41,147 --> 02:08:45,295
as a person who has campaigned as like the
land preservation guy,

2095
02:08:45,295 --> 02:08:49,826
being very aligned with the president of
the Home Builders Association,

2096
02:08:49,826 --> 02:08:53,272
I think that speaks volumes that we can
come together.

2097
02:08:53,272 --> 02:08:56,590
I went down to Bobby's office. They have
maps there.

2098
02:08:56,590 --> 02:08:59,844
I think that somebody needs to take the
initiative.

2099
02:08:59,844 --> 02:09:04,184
I've got— I'm sure somebody else here
knows the mapper that's there.

2100
02:09:04,184 --> 02:09:06,481
He was out the day I I wasn't there,

2101
02:09:06,481 --> 02:09:09,991
but there are definitely limitations in
what they have,

2102
02:09:09,991 --> 02:09:14,904
and I think there will certainly be a
price tag associated with some of that.

2103
02:09:14,904 --> 02:09:19,690
But very importantly, to solve this
problem of, oh, are we laying a blanket

2104
02:09:19,690 --> 02:09:20,009
problem of, oh, are we laying a blanket
down,

2105
02:09:20,009 --> 02:09:24,923
I think that we have to figure out a way
to add an additional dataset that we

2106
02:09:24,923 --> 02:09:25,306
to add an additional dataset that we
almost

2107
02:09:25,306 --> 02:09:26,773
consider like the maps,

2108
02:09:26,773 --> 02:09:31,495
and that is the public input about the
people that are specifically there.

2109
02:09:31,495 --> 02:09:34,367
Mount Pleasant is really none of my
business.

2110
02:09:34,367 --> 02:09:39,153
My business is in that— well, it's down,
but it's in that southeast corner.

2111
02:09:39,153 --> 02:09:42,982
And I spent a lot of time, a lot of money
to get that place.

2112
02:09:42,982 --> 02:09:45,088
I've put a hell of a lot into it.

2113
02:09:45,088 --> 02:09:47,385
I specifically went out and I would—

2114
02:09:47,385 --> 02:09:52,107
the analogy was I went out and I bought a
Toyota. That's the car I wanted.

2115
02:09:52,107 --> 02:09:55,744
And then all of a sudden overnight, it's
like Cinderella,

2116
02:09:55,744 --> 02:09:57,531
it's changed into a pumpkin.

2117
02:09:57,531 --> 02:09:57,755
Right.

2118
02:09:58,317 --> 02:10:00,018
That's not what people—

2119
02:10:00,018 --> 02:10:05,860
people are not buying and moving in and
putting all their energy into something

2120
02:10:05,860 --> 02:10:06,156
putting all their energy into something
just

2121
02:10:06,156 --> 02:10:08,226
to have it change overnight.

2122
02:10:08,226 --> 02:10:14,438
And I certainly respect the idea of people
being able to peel something off here and

2123
02:10:14,438 --> 02:10:17,322
there. My problem is also about intent.

2124
02:10:17,322 --> 02:10:23,164
There's a huge difference between a guy
like me and an investor who's coming in

2125
02:10:23,164 --> 02:10:23,460
like me and an investor who's coming in
with

2126
02:10:23,460 --> 02:10:28,193
the intent of flipping the land, and
they're being disingenuous.

2127
02:10:28,193 --> 02:10:33,296
They're messing around with the rules,
which we now— as you all know,

2128
02:10:33,296 --> 02:10:37,215
we now have widespread examples of what
they've done.

2129
02:10:37,215 --> 02:10:40,617
And we have to find a way to acknowledge
that.

2130
02:10:40,617 --> 02:10:43,797
There's a difference between a guy like
me,

2131
02:10:43,797 --> 02:10:48,530
and I'd say a lot of the people in the
room, the local builders,

2132
02:10:48,530 --> 02:10:52,079
and these guys that are pulling the PE
money in,

2133
02:10:52,079 --> 02:10:57,404
and they care about nothing other than the
numbers in their spreadsheet.

2134
02:10:57,404 --> 02:11:02,654
We've got to find a way to accommodate
that. Thank you. Perfect timing.

2135
02:11:02,654 --> 02:11:07,387
All right, next one is Bart Watley. Bart,
you'll have 3 minutes.

2136
02:11:07,387 --> 02:11:13,007
Bart Watley, District 9. Pull that mic
down so we can hear you. Pull the mic

2137
02:11:13,007 --> 02:11:13,377
down so we can hear you. Pull the mic
down.

2138
02:11:13,377 --> 02:11:13,913
Yes.

2139
02:11:14,715 --> 02:11:19,779
Bart Watley, District 9. And I think it
was Chris said it, he said something

2140
02:11:19,779 --> 02:11:20,245
was Chris said it, he said something
stupid.

2141
02:11:20,245 --> 02:11:23,177
Nah, we all do that. Don't worry about
that.

2142
02:11:23,177 --> 02:11:28,241
You know, I would like to see Murray
County do something that they'd have on

2143
02:11:28,241 --> 02:11:28,440
County do something that they'd have on
the

2144
02:11:28,440 --> 02:11:31,639
evening news, maybe make Fox News. I don't
care.

2145
02:11:31,639 --> 02:11:36,569
We need to be forefathers so our kids 50
years from now say, hey, in 2027,

2146
02:11:36,569 --> 02:11:40,900
Murray County did something refreshing and
neat, and it was fair,

2147
02:11:40,900 --> 02:11:46,430
and most of the people, the big majority
of the people, the consensus agreed to it.

2148
02:11:46,430 --> 02:11:48,762
That's what I'd like to see you do.

2149
02:11:48,762 --> 02:11:53,093
That probably could happen, but it's going
to take a lot of work,

2150
02:11:53,093 --> 02:11:58,223
maybe at the state level. I don't know. I
think there needs to be more zones.

2151
02:11:58,223 --> 02:12:00,022
I've got a little red zone.

2152
02:12:00,022 --> 02:12:02,221
I can put hog farms if I want to,

2153
02:12:02,221 --> 02:12:06,419
not far from a lot of these Sheepneck
people have been talking.

2154
02:12:06,419 --> 02:12:08,218
But I don't want hog farms.

2155
02:12:08,218 --> 02:12:13,281
But the main thing, I don't want them
coming down and burning my house down.

2156
02:12:13,281 --> 02:12:16,746
And I'd feel like if I was them, I
wouldn't do that.

2157
02:12:16,746 --> 02:12:20,411
But we need to treat others like we want
to be treated.

2158
02:12:20,411 --> 02:12:25,608
And I'm not sure that this 1 acre or 5
acres, take it or leave it, is going to

2159
02:12:25,608 --> 02:12:25,941
acres, take it or leave it, is going to
work.

2160
02:12:25,941 --> 02:12:30,671
And the others that talked before me, I
could not Agree more with them.

2161
02:12:30,671 --> 02:12:33,203
You've heard some good things tonight.

2162
02:12:33,203 --> 02:12:38,667
I hope you heard it and will take it to
heart and maybe have some people like have

2163
02:12:38,667 --> 02:12:44,130
spoken tonight to be on some— in some of
your workshops. Can y'all have workshops?

2164
02:12:44,130 --> 02:12:49,327
I mean, can you get it done in this kind
of meeting? I don't see it happening.

2165
02:12:49,327 --> 02:12:54,724
You gotta almost have workshops as far as
I'm concerned and have people like have

2166
02:12:54,724 --> 02:12:59,455
spoken tonight. Not me. Oh man, I can't
hardly think, go on pain pills.

2167
02:12:59,455 --> 02:13:03,519
But people in here that's, that's invested
in our county, to,

2168
02:13:03,519 --> 02:13:06,984
to talk to y'all that's been around, got
businesses,

2169
02:13:06,984 --> 02:13:12,181
and get in deep with it and do something
remarkable. I hope I've inspired you.

2170
02:13:12,181 --> 02:13:16,711
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Watley. Next
person up is Robert Crichton.

2171
02:13:16,711 --> 02:13:21,309
Come on up, sir. This is your first time
speaking tonight, I believe,

2172
02:13:21,309 --> 02:13:25,040
so give us your name and your district
before you start.

2173
02:13:25,040 --> 02:13:27,972
And you will have 3 minutes, sir. All
right.

2174
02:13:27,972 --> 02:13:31,370
My name is Bob Creighton, and I live in
District 8.

2175
02:13:31,370 --> 02:13:35,234
I wasn't going to talk tonight, and I
don't have a script,

2176
02:13:35,234 --> 02:13:39,032
but I've sat here tonight and listened to
a lot of words.

2177
02:13:39,032 --> 02:13:42,430
And first of all, I, I want to be very
kind to you.

2178
02:13:42,430 --> 02:13:46,161
I'm going to say some things that don't
sound very kind,

2179
02:13:46,161 --> 02:13:50,225
but I want to be kind to you. You are all
really good people.

2180
02:13:50,225 --> 02:13:55,489
I like every one of you. George is a
really good friend of mine from years ago.

2181
02:13:55,489 --> 02:13:59,020
Eric's a good guy. He did a good job the
other night.

2182
02:13:59,020 --> 02:14:03,751
I mean, I could go across the board and
mention everything. I like you.

2183
02:14:03,751 --> 02:14:06,152
I'm not awake.

2184
02:14:06,152 --> 02:14:11,271
But I have to say that Tate Township and a
graphic with the same numbers from Tate

2185
02:14:11,271 --> 02:14:16,265
Township on a graphic that was represented
to us as our graphic is unacceptable.

2186
02:14:16,265 --> 02:14:21,072
And I think you realize that. And I still
want you here as a citizen to work.

2187
02:14:21,072 --> 02:14:22,882
I think you can do good work.

2188
02:14:22,882 --> 02:14:27,751
But you need to do something to resurrect
your credibility a little bit. Okay?

2189
02:14:27,751 --> 02:14:32,121
Fair enough? All right. Talk to the chair.
Yeah. I know. I understand.

2190
02:14:32,121 --> 02:14:36,428
Now, I heard a lot of things tonight,
things like we don't even have,

2191
02:14:36,428 --> 02:14:38,863
we don't even have, we don't even have.

2192
02:14:38,863 --> 02:14:43,544
We don't have an end We don't have a final
goal. We don't have a final map.

2193
02:14:43,544 --> 02:14:48,164
This project— and I'm going to call it a
project— needs a project manager.

2194
02:14:48,164 --> 02:14:53,345
You said we feel like we're spinning our
wheels. Jerry, you said that last meeting.

2195
02:14:53,345 --> 02:14:55,093
So we've gone a whole month,

2196
02:14:55,093 --> 02:14:59,463
and I had hoped that there would be some
discussion in the background,

2197
02:14:59,463 --> 02:15:01,897
somebody pulling stuff together saying,

2198
02:15:01,897 --> 02:15:06,454
make sure what we're going to do in the
next meeting so we make progress.

2199
02:15:06,454 --> 02:15:10,325
And I don't feel like any of that's
happening. It's happening.

2200
02:15:10,325 --> 02:15:14,944
Eric, I'm not picking on you. You're doing
a good job running the meeting.

2201
02:15:14,944 --> 02:15:19,314
But there's no one here to pull the
project together and to manage the

2202
02:15:19,314 --> 02:15:19,813
project together and to manage the
process.

2203
02:15:19,813 --> 02:15:24,370
This poor lady's being looked at as the
one that should do it. She's not.

2204
02:15:24,370 --> 02:15:28,865
She's a resource. We've hired her to do a
job for us, to do an analysis.

2205
02:15:28,865 --> 02:15:33,734
She's not the one to manage the project,
the process. And somebody needs to do

2206
02:15:33,734 --> 02:15:34,046
the process. And somebody needs to do
that.

2207
02:15:34,046 --> 02:15:37,292
I'm, you know, I don't like this setting
right here.

2208
02:15:37,292 --> 02:15:40,788
But in the business world, I came in the
business world,

2209
02:15:40,788 --> 02:15:45,782
we'd be in a room with a blackboard and
we'd be sitting around the table talking

2210
02:15:45,782 --> 02:15:50,464
with pizza and we'd work all night. You
don't want to do that, I know that.

2211
02:15:50,464 --> 02:15:52,274
But I think you get my point.

2212
02:15:52,274 --> 02:15:55,832
Now, there was a lot of mention about the
1-acre, 5-acre.

2213
02:15:55,832 --> 02:16:00,889
I know there's some state programs that
can enter into that discussion where they

2214
02:16:00,889 --> 02:16:04,447
provide assistance. I don't know all the
details of that.

2215
02:16:04,447 --> 02:16:06,757
I'm just aware of a little bit of it,

2216
02:16:06,757 --> 02:16:10,564
so I didn't want to make it sound like I'm
an expert on that,

2217
02:16:10,564 --> 02:16:14,497
but I just leave you with the point that
think about a process.

2218
02:16:14,497 --> 02:16:19,429
Again, I don't want to be critical, but we
are wasting time here, and it's not,

2219
02:16:19,429 --> 02:16:24,672
not your fault, but someone needs to step
up and say, here's what we're going to do,

2220
02:16:24,672 --> 02:16:29,604
let's make the process work. Okay, I'll
leave you with that thought. Thank you.

2221
02:16:29,604 --> 02:16:34,536
Thank you, sir. All right, next person up.
Is, um, let me get this reset again.

2222
02:16:34,536 --> 02:16:36,034
Ryan Dugger, come on up.

2223
02:16:36,034 --> 02:16:39,842
And we've heard from you once, so sir,
you'll have 3 minutes.

2224
02:16:39,842 --> 02:16:44,336
First, want to address, as I mentioned
earlier, the 1 and 5-acre debate.

2225
02:16:44,336 --> 02:16:48,394
I'm not very well up on that, but I would
just submit a proposal.

2226
02:16:48,394 --> 02:16:51,390
I don't know if it has any legality or
anything,

2227
02:16:51,390 --> 02:16:56,634
and I guess you all might know But I think
everyone's fear and why so many residents

2228
02:16:56,634 --> 02:17:01,566
are for— it seems that most laypeople are
very much in favor of 5 acres for one

2229
02:17:01,566 --> 02:17:06,559
reason or another. Many developers and
real estate agents are in favor of 1 acre

2230
02:17:06,559 --> 02:17:06,747
real estate agents are in favor of 1 acre
for

2231
02:17:06,747 --> 02:17:10,804
one reason or another. That could be from
a business perspective.

2232
02:17:10,804 --> 02:17:15,486
That could be just because they have
intimate knowledge of how it's kind of

2233
02:17:15,486 --> 02:17:15,923
intimate knowledge of how it's kind of
useless

2234
02:17:15,923 --> 02:17:17,546
to say one way or another.

2235
02:17:17,546 --> 02:17:22,665
But I think everyone's concern among the
general public is that big developers are

2236
02:17:22,665 --> 02:17:27,472
going to come in right across from your
house, you're going to get 500 homes.

2237
02:17:27,472 --> 02:17:31,904
And I think as long as there's a process
to intensely scrutinize those,

2238
02:17:31,904 --> 02:17:37,148
you may not even have to get to the 1-acre
or 5-acre debate really as a part of this

2239
02:17:37,148 --> 02:17:42,329
growth plan. I think you could simply put
in there by restricting kind of what your

2240
02:17:42,329 --> 02:17:47,573
growth plan is, it may be good enough for
the Board of Zoning Appeals to not approve

2241
02:17:47,573 --> 02:17:51,568
these massive subdivisions in certain
rural parts of the county,

2242
02:17:51,568 --> 02:17:53,628
which is what everyone's fear is.

2243
02:17:53,628 --> 02:17:55,563
I would just like to reiterate,

2244
02:17:55,563 --> 02:18:00,494
and I guess counter one of our other
constituents' statement about farmland not

2245
02:18:00,494 --> 02:18:05,301
being really used for farming or food
producing. I think that's just flat out

2246
02:18:05,301 --> 02:18:05,676
producing. I think that's just flat out
wrong.

2247
02:18:05,676 --> 02:18:07,923
I think that is someone who I think,

2248
02:18:07,923 --> 02:18:11,981
and I say ignorant in just a not knowing
the details kind of way.

2249
02:18:11,981 --> 02:18:16,475
I don't think that individual's from here.
I think he's looking at this.

2250
02:18:16,475 --> 02:18:20,283
Much as like a massive cornfield in
Illinois where he's from.

2251
02:18:20,283 --> 02:18:22,343
Agriculture looks different here,

2252
02:18:22,343 --> 02:18:25,714
just like it looks different out west in
South Dakota,

2253
02:18:25,714 --> 02:18:29,647
but agriculture is still much aware and
alive in Murray County,

2254
02:18:29,647 --> 02:18:32,144
and I think we need to help preserve it.

2255
02:18:32,144 --> 02:18:37,075
For my last little over a minute, I would
ask this group to consider one thing.

2256
02:18:37,075 --> 02:18:41,570
I don't agree with the planned growth up
and down Highway 7 in Santa Fe.

2257
02:18:41,570 --> 02:18:46,377
However, I think if you are going to
consider that What I would ask for would

2258
02:18:46,377 --> 02:18:46,689
consider that What I would ask for would
be if

2259
02:18:46,689 --> 02:18:49,997
you would consider putting more of Santa
Fe in there.

2260
02:18:49,997 --> 02:18:53,618
If you're going to keep Santa Fe in a
planned growth area,

2261
02:18:53,618 --> 02:18:55,678
I would like more to be added in.

2262
02:18:55,678 --> 02:19:00,485
The reason for that would be to consider
annexation, or rather incorporation,

2263
02:19:00,485 --> 02:19:05,291
of Santa Fe. I believe it's been about 189
years since we've had any new city

2264
02:19:05,291 --> 02:19:09,599
incorporated in Murray County. We've had
4. We still have 3 of those.

2265
02:19:09,599 --> 02:19:13,032
Williamsport's no longer incorporated. But
I would ask—

2266
02:19:13,032 --> 02:19:13,144
Thank you.

2267
02:19:13,209 --> 02:19:17,248
That to incorporate enough of Santa Fe
that is outside of 3 miles from Spring

2268
02:19:17,248 --> 02:19:17,457
that is outside of 3 miles from Spring
Hill

2269
02:19:17,457 --> 02:19:21,444
or Columbia with at least 1,500 residents
so that you give Santa Fe a voice.

2270
02:19:21,444 --> 02:19:24,171
If you're going to put them in an urban
growth area,

2271
02:19:24,171 --> 02:19:27,790
give them an area big enough that at least
1,500 residents are there.

2272
02:19:27,790 --> 02:19:31,567
So if they want to start the process of
trying to incorporate, they can.

2273
02:19:31,567 --> 02:19:35,710
They can't do that in areas that are
outside of that urban growth area in their

2274
02:19:35,710 --> 02:19:38,385
initial incorporation. So if you don't
have enough—

2275
02:19:38,385 --> 02:19:38,498
I'm sorry.

2276
02:19:39,080 --> 02:19:40,922
they won't ever have that voice.

2277
02:19:40,922 --> 02:19:45,297
But if you're going to put us in that
bracket, at least let us have a voice.

2278
02:19:45,297 --> 02:19:47,427
Thank you. All right, thank you, sir.

2279
02:19:47,427 --> 02:19:51,226
And next person up is going to be Patrick—
is it Tascori? Tascori.

2280
02:19:51,226 --> 02:19:52,492
Okay, come on up, sir.

2281
02:19:52,492 --> 02:19:56,637
You've not spoke tonight, so please tell
us your name and your district,

2282
02:19:56,637 --> 02:19:59,860
and you'll have 3 minutes, sir. Uh, I'm
Patrick Tascori.

2283
02:19:59,860 --> 02:20:01,645
I'm in District 1 in Riverside.

2284
02:20:01,645 --> 02:20:05,674
I live on about It's 0.4 acres, which is
about perfect for what it is,

2285
02:20:05,674 --> 02:20:07,746
'cause it is just a city block area.

2286
02:20:07,746 --> 02:20:10,855
I grew up in Chicago area, which was about
0.16 acres,

2287
02:20:10,855 --> 02:20:14,884
so I live on about 3 times the size of the
property that I grew up on,

2288
02:20:14,884 --> 02:20:19,662
but it's just kind of hard to come across
lots that are just city blocks like that,

2289
02:20:19,662 --> 02:20:24,382
so I don't really have room to talk about,
you know, between the 1 and 5-acre lot,

2290
02:20:24,382 --> 02:20:28,123
but I do know what it's like to live in a
densely populated area.

2291
02:20:28,123 --> 02:20:30,656
and infrastructure that comes along with
it.

2292
02:20:30,656 --> 02:20:33,189
But I only learned about this meeting
today,

2293
02:20:33,189 --> 02:20:36,643
so these are more questions and ideas than
proposed answers.

2294
02:20:36,643 --> 02:20:38,773
And based on what I've heard tonight,

2295
02:20:38,773 --> 02:20:42,572
I think the comment about needing better
maps is really important.

2296
02:20:42,572 --> 02:20:46,831
I'm less concerned about whether the
answer is 1 acre or 5 acres than I am

2297
02:20:46,831 --> 02:20:47,119
answer is 1 acre or 5 acres than I am
about

2298
02:20:47,119 --> 02:20:51,954
what development actually looks and feels
like on the land and what it causes around

2299
02:20:51,954 --> 02:20:55,466
it. Could GIS become more than a colored
future land use map?

2300
02:20:55,466 --> 02:20:59,610
Could it become a one public platform
where the commission, a developer,

2301
02:20:59,610 --> 02:21:03,927
and a Murray County resident can look at
essentially the same non-sensitive

2302
02:21:03,927 --> 02:21:07,554
information without needing an ArcGIS
license, a special login,

2303
02:21:07,554 --> 02:21:10,605
or hunting through different agencies for
shapefiles?

2304
02:21:10,605 --> 02:21:15,210
Could I turn on the parcels, topography,
prime farmland, waterways, floodplains,

2305
02:21:15,210 --> 02:21:19,297
traffic, existing and future roads,
schools, hospitals, water and sewer

2306
02:21:19,297 --> 02:21:19,815
schools, hospitals, water and sewer
capacity,

2307
02:21:19,815 --> 02:21:23,902
power lines, fiber cell infrastructure,
parks, employment, bike routes,

2308
02:21:23,902 --> 02:21:28,219
and other layers? And see where the data
came from and when it was updated?

2309
02:21:28,219 --> 02:21:31,557
And then, could we use those layers for
what-if scenarios?

2310
02:21:31,557 --> 02:21:36,162
If 500 homes go on 500 acres, what happens
to traffic, schools, water utilities,

2311
02:21:36,162 --> 02:21:37,889
stores, parks, and employment?

2312
02:21:37,889 --> 02:21:42,149
What changes if those 500 homes are spread
over the entire property versus

2313
02:21:42,149 --> 02:21:46,006
concentrated into a traditional
neighborhood or a small hamlet that

2314
02:21:46,006 --> 02:21:46,524
neighborhood or a small hamlet that
preserves

2315
02:21:46,524 --> 02:21:51,129
farmland, woods, ponds, and views around
it? What happens if a hospital expands?

2316
02:21:51,129 --> 02:21:54,813
If industry grows, if another transmission
corridor, cell tower,

2317
02:21:54,813 --> 02:21:57,000
or major utility is eventually needed,

2318
02:21:57,000 --> 02:22:01,548
are we thinking about those secondary
effects before we put homes next to them?

2319
02:22:01,548 --> 02:22:06,095
And are we preserving transportation
options before development takes them away

2320
02:22:06,095 --> 02:22:06,325
options before development takes them away
from

2321
02:22:06,325 --> 02:22:10,470
us? Murray County still has the
opportunity to identify future bypasses,

2322
02:22:10,470 --> 02:22:12,830
collector roads, roundabouts, overpasses,

2323
02:22:12,830 --> 02:22:16,226
and underpasses before every possible
corridor is occupied.

2324
02:22:16,226 --> 02:22:19,104
Carmel, Indiana's Keystone Parkway is one
example.

2325
02:22:19,104 --> 02:22:22,961
The city describes it as a 4-lane
expressway with 6 grade-separated

2326
02:22:22,961 --> 02:22:23,594
expressway with 6 grade-separated
full-access

2327
02:22:23,594 --> 02:22:27,911
roundabouts and interchanges that maintain
through traffic while preserving

2328
02:22:27,911 --> 02:22:29,063
cross-street access.

2329
02:22:29,063 --> 02:22:33,322
How do we move traffic efficiently without
creating an endless sequence of

2330
02:22:33,322 --> 02:22:37,985
stoplights while also avoiding bypassing
small communities in a way that isolates

2331
02:22:37,985 --> 02:22:40,115
them? And when we plan neighborhoods,

2332
02:22:40,115 --> 02:22:44,547
are we asking whether children can bike
safely to a park or a friend's house,

2333
02:22:44,547 --> 02:22:49,267
whether an older resident can walk to a
small store instead of having to drive for

2334
02:22:49,267 --> 02:22:53,987
every trip? So the public feedback already
showed interest in both the traditional

2335
02:22:53,987 --> 02:22:56,347
neighborhoods and trails and connections.

2336
02:22:56,347 --> 02:23:00,262
So those ideas aren't necessarily
inconsistent with preserving rural

2337
02:23:00,262 --> 02:23:00,837
inconsistent with preserving rural
character.

2338
02:23:00,837 --> 02:23:04,867
Ultimately, I think the question is bigger
than 1 acre versus 5 acres.

2339
02:23:04,867 --> 02:23:07,169
Are we planning individual developments,

2340
02:23:07,169 --> 02:23:11,889
or are we using GIS to understand how land
use, transportation utilities, housing,

2341
02:23:11,889 --> 02:23:16,494
commerce, recreation, and the landscape
interacts as one system? Thank you, sir.

2342
02:23:16,494 --> 02:23:20,696
Appreciate that. And our last speaker this
evening will be Dave Townsend.

2343
02:23:20,696 --> 02:23:25,416
Come on up, sir. You've already spoke once
tonight, so you'll have 3 minutes, sir.

2344
02:23:25,416 --> 02:23:30,194
So the subject of real estate has come up
several times this evening about property

2345
02:23:30,194 --> 02:23:31,748
values and stuff like that,

2346
02:23:31,748 --> 02:23:36,411
so I just wanted to come up and provide a
little additional info on some of that.

2347
02:23:36,411 --> 02:23:40,037
First off, deed restrictions are something
that anybody can do.

2348
02:23:40,037 --> 02:23:42,052
Anyone can go in right now and say,

2349
02:23:42,052 --> 02:23:45,563
I don't want my 20 acres to divided in
more than 4 lots ever.

2350
02:23:45,563 --> 02:23:49,132
They can put that on there. It permanently
runs with the land.

2351
02:23:49,132 --> 02:23:52,241
People have the freedom right now to make
that choice.

2352
02:23:52,241 --> 02:23:54,198
They have always had that freedom.

2353
02:23:54,198 --> 02:23:57,709
They just have to go to the deeds office
and have it applied.

2354
02:23:57,709 --> 02:24:01,623
Secondly, there's preservation
opportunities that they can put it in

2355
02:24:01,623 --> 02:24:02,199
opportunities that they can put it in
trusts and

2356
02:24:02,199 --> 02:24:03,753
different things like that.

2357
02:24:03,753 --> 02:24:08,588
So there are some ways that those who want
to do it on a voluntary basis can protect

2358
02:24:08,588 --> 02:24:10,661
their land, first off. Secondly, Mr.

2359
02:24:10,661 --> 02:24:15,151
Strahan, some of your questions were about
property value with 1 acre versus 5

2360
02:24:15,151 --> 02:24:18,720
acres. So the way land tends to work is
that your most usable,

2361
02:24:18,720 --> 02:24:21,080
buildable piece of property on that land,

2362
02:24:21,080 --> 02:24:25,569
that say maybe that 1-acre area where
you're building your house and your main

2363
02:24:25,569 --> 02:24:29,138
dwelling, that's going to be your most
valuable portion of it.

2364
02:24:29,138 --> 02:24:32,189
So hypothetically, we— well, not even
hypothetically,

2365
02:24:32,189 --> 02:24:35,585
1-acre lots in Murray County right now are
around $150,000.

2366
02:24:35,585 --> 02:24:37,658
If you go to a 5-acre lot right now,

2367
02:24:37,658 --> 02:24:42,090
you are looking toward the north end of
the county somewhere around $300,000,

2368
02:24:42,090 --> 02:24:43,587
give or take a little bit.

2369
02:24:43,587 --> 02:24:47,961
Toward the south end of the county, you're
much more into the sub-$200,000s,

2370
02:24:47,961 --> 02:24:50,264
so maybe around $150,000 to that amount.

2371
02:24:50,264 --> 02:24:54,293
It averages throughout the county to about
$44,000 per acre right now.

2372
02:24:54,293 --> 02:24:57,747
So you can see right there, if you have So
if you've got 20,

2373
02:24:57,747 --> 02:25:02,122
let's say you've got your 100-acre parcel
that you were dividing up earlier,

2374
02:25:02,122 --> 02:25:05,806
and you divided that up into 5 acres, so
you've got 20 of those.

2375
02:25:05,806 --> 02:25:09,144
And you've got 20 of those, let's say, at
$300,000 apiece.

2376
02:25:09,144 --> 02:25:12,598
That's a lot of money for a 5-acre piece
of land in my mind,

2377
02:25:12,598 --> 02:25:17,088
but right there you've got $6 million,
right? Did I do that right? 20 times 3.

2378
02:25:17,088 --> 02:25:17,376
right? Did I do that right? 20 times 3.
Yeah.

2379
02:25:17,376 --> 02:25:20,024
Okay. So when you then break that down to
150,

2380
02:25:20,024 --> 02:25:22,844
you're going to be more at the $15 million
range.

2381
02:25:22,844 --> 02:25:27,564
So there's a big difference in what you
can get out of 1-acre land versus what you

2382
02:25:27,564 --> 02:25:31,882
can get out of 5-acre land if you are the
original seller of that property.

2383
02:25:31,882 --> 02:25:36,199
So if you're that farmer who's trying to
make his 401 out of that property,

2384
02:25:36,199 --> 02:25:39,538
you've got much more options when you do
have that 1 acre.

2385
02:25:39,538 --> 02:25:44,200
And that's what people will lose if they
take that 5-acre thing and apply it as a

2386
02:25:44,200 --> 02:25:46,387
broad stroke across across the county.

2387
02:25:46,387 --> 02:25:50,129
I also think it's important to look at,
like what Sam was saying,

2388
02:25:50,129 --> 02:25:54,274
about the individual properties that
already exist. What is around them?

2389
02:25:54,274 --> 02:25:59,109
There's a certain expectation when you go
into an area and you see a certain type of

2390
02:25:59,109 --> 02:26:00,951
house, certain type of property,

2391
02:26:00,951 --> 02:26:04,347
that the properties nearby are going to be
similar to that.

2392
02:26:04,347 --> 02:26:06,822
And you can see that all across the
county,

2393
02:26:06,822 --> 02:26:11,197
and that's just kind of the natural growth
of how development tends to work.

2394
02:26:11,197 --> 02:26:11,454
Thank you.

2395
02:26:12,170 --> 02:26:16,477
Um, so my time's about up. I'll go ahead
and stop there. All right, very good, sir.

2396
02:26:16,477 --> 02:26:18,501
Thank you for that. And with that said,

2397
02:26:18,501 --> 02:26:22,133
I'll ask if there's any comments out of
the committee before we leave.

2398
02:26:22,133 --> 02:26:26,492
If not, we will be adjourned. Going once,
going twice. Y'all have a blessed evening.

2399
02:26:26,492 --> 02:26:30,384
Thanks for being here tonight, and thank
you for the crowd for your turnout

2400
02:26:30,384 --> 02:26:30,800
you for the crowd for your turnout
tonight.

2401
02:26:30,800 --> 02:26:33,965
I know it thinned out some, but I was
pleased at the turnout.