[0:01] Yeah, we're live.
[0:06] » Like to call to order the June 2nd, 226
[0:10] [music]
[0:11] council workshop.
[0:14] Could I have a roll call, please?
[0:16] » Council person
[0:17] » Here. Council person Murphy
[0:19] » Here.
[0:20] » Council person Ziggler
[0:21] » Here.
[0:22] » Person Cooper
[0:23] » Here.
[0:24] » Council President Coffman.
[0:27] » Council person [music] buyers
[0:28] » Here.
[0:30] here.
[0:30] » Mayor
[0:31] » Here.
[0:37] » If you'd like, please.
[0:47] » That's great.
[1:10] All right. And uh please join us in a
[1:12] pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of
[1:15] the United States of America and to the
[1:18] republic for which it stands. One nation
[1:22] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[1:25] justice for all.
[1:30] » Great. Are there any additions,
[1:32] deletions, or reorganization of the
[1:34] agenda? [cough]
[1:36] [clears throat]
[1:37] Could I have a motion to approve the
[1:38] agenda as published?
[1:40] » So moved.
[1:41] » Second.
[1:42] » Motion by council person Murphy. Second
[1:44] by council person Gezy to approve the
[1:48] agenda as published. All in favor?
[1:52] » I.
[1:54] » Anyone opposed?
[1:56] All right. Uh, next citizen comments.
[1:59] The first item we have is Sharon
[2:01] Lintner.
[2:04] » Good evening. Um, I wanted to go
[2:07] back to uh actually to May 18th of the
[2:12] bid opening. I was present for the bid
[2:14] opening and during that uh process, the
[2:18] solicitor announced that this was in all
[2:21] respects a responsive bid. Everything we
[2:24] need to consider this a responsive bid.
[2:27] And the solicitor then stated there was
[2:29] going to be an executive session that
[2:31] evening to quote discuss the bid. There
[2:34] had to be nine sets of eyes on this
[2:37] document from between May 18th and May
[2:40] 26th. And yet apparently no one caught
[2:43] the fact that the 60-day requirement was
[2:46] missing. It seems the bid should have
[2:49] been rejected long before it became an
[2:51] agenda item. The public should have been
[2:54] informed immediately, not 4 hours into
[2:57] the meeting. As I recall, the council
[2:59] vice president said that May 26 was the
[3:03] first time they had to discuss this,
[3:05] which differs from what the solicitor
[3:07] stated, and I wasn't real familiar with
[3:11] the term responsive bid. So, I did have
[3:14] to do a little research on that. And in
[3:17] municipal contracting, a responsive bid
[3:20] means the contractor's proposal meets
[3:23] all the procedural, administrative, and
[3:26] technical requirements outlined in the
[3:28] bureau's solicitation document. It
[3:31] signifies the vendor provided the right
[3:33] paperwork, agreed to the bureau's exact
[3:35] terms, and submitted the bid on time.
[3:39] And my understanding is that the vice
[3:42] president also did write the RFP. So,
[3:45] I'm just wondering what what happened.
[3:48] Am I wrong in thinking that this could
[3:50] have been rejected on the spot because
[3:52] it did not contain the proper things
[3:55] that were required
[3:56] » At the bid opening. We did not read
[4:01] we we verified that each of the items
[4:04] that we had requested. We verified that
[4:07] each of those were present which was all
[4:11] we required um at that time and one of
[4:16] those items that we required them to
[4:19] address was timeline. We did not look at
[4:22] the details at the bid opening. We
[4:24] looked to verify that they were there.
[4:26] We didn't look at
[4:28] » Well he did mention the 4% that was
[4:31] required. I know he said that and he
[4:33] said
[4:34] » And then what what happened though? I
[4:36] mean if you had an executive session and
[4:39] then did you not have those
[4:42] » The bid with you from did you have to
[4:44] turn them back in or did you have that
[4:46] in your possession to read it?
[4:47] » We did. We did have those. Yes.
[4:49] » So you had plenty of time actually to to
[4:51] read them. You would think somebody
[4:53] would have caught it.
[4:54] » Yes. Some of us did catch it. But then
[4:57] why wouldn't it have been rejected
[4:58] before we even put it on the agenda?
[5:02] » Because when we have a responsive bid,
[5:07] we have to award or reject that bid at a
[5:10] public meeting.
[5:11] » But how was it responsive? because the
[5:14] definition doesn't
[5:15] » But it
[5:18] » Because we did a we did sort of a hybrid
[5:21] of a sealed bid.
[5:25] Technically
[5:27] all that is was required was to meet was
[5:31] to contain the information that we had
[5:34] requested. We requested a timeline.
[5:38] They gave us a timeline.
[5:40] It doesn't it didn't meet what we wanted
[5:42] and that is can be the basis for
[5:44] rejection.
[5:47] But just because it doesn't meet our
[5:51] expectation doesn't mean it's not
[5:53] responsive because it did include their
[5:55] timeline.
[5:57] » But I'm still going to ask if it's
[5:59] statemandated 60-day.
[6:02] I I just don't see how that fits into
[6:04] this. But okay. Thank you for trying to
[6:07] explain that to me. Um, also just really
[6:09] quickly, I didn't speak at the last
[6:12] meeting, so I'm gonna make up for it
[6:14] tonight. [laughter]
[6:15] Um, no. Um,
[6:17] » A little more on the mic.
[6:18] » Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Um, I just wanted
[6:22] to make a suggestion, too. If there is
[6:25] ever a meeting that you anticipate that
[6:28] kind of a crowd again, I think it would
[6:31] be wise to have a numbered signin sheet
[6:34] because how in the world, you know, you
[6:37] had to ask people to leave and I don't
[6:40] think that was right in the first place,
[6:42] but you had to ask people to leave in
[6:44] order to proceed with the meeting. I
[6:45] think it should have been cancelled, but
[6:48] if you had a numbered sign-in sheet, you
[6:50] could tell when you were hitting the
[6:51] maximum capacity and then you would know
[6:54] what your decision was going to be. I
[6:56] don't know who counted heads to know
[6:58] enough people even left that room. I
[7:00] mean, I don't even think they did
[7:02] because it was standing room only, but
[7:04] um I mean, certainly I know there were
[7:06] people outside, but okay. So, that's
[7:09] just a suggestion there. And um
[7:12] as far as the ebikes and scooters, I
[7:15] almost got hit on my own sidewalk trying
[7:17] to work it on yard work that I was doing
[7:20] that I had to reach around my retaining
[7:23] wall. And I mean the guy came so fast
[7:27] out of nowhere I couldn't even hear him
[7:28] coming. And I mean I'm elderly. If I get
[7:31] hit by one of them I'm going to break
[7:34] like an egg. And I just think why do we
[7:37] [clears throat] can we this is my
[7:39] suggestion. Can the police if they stop
[7:43] them for that? Can they confiscate?
[7:46] Okay. So if they take the ebike or the
[7:48] scooter, is it possible for them to hold
[7:51] it until they would like complete some
[7:54] type of safety course at the market
[7:56] house or something? Hold one once a
[7:58] month or something or once every six
[8:00] months. I mean, if you want them to get
[8:02] the the bike back in a timely fashion,
[8:05] you would almost have to I didn't know
[8:06] if that was even legal to make them do
[8:08] something like that, but I just think
[8:09] the word would spread pretty quick
[8:11] because nobody's going to want to sit in
[8:13] that. And it's not just kids doing this.
[8:15] This guy was a complete adult. I mean,
[8:18] riding right down the sidewalk very
[8:20] fast, faster than I say some of the cars
[8:23] traveled. And he was gone. I would have
[8:25] never even known who hit me. And then,
[8:27] you know, this morning we're rounding a
[8:29] corner and here comes a kid on a a
[8:32] scooter, motorized scooter. And I mean,
[8:34] we're like head on to each other and I
[8:36] got a picture from another guy in town
[8:38] saying, "Here it is." I said, "Well,
[8:40] it's all over the place. Every time we
[8:42] drive through, that's what we see." So,
[8:45] » May I respond, Sharon? Yes.
[8:46] » Just I I have a little bit of experience
[8:48] on for picture. So, uh, the statute does
[8:51] allow us to, um, seize, uh, those things
[8:56] in the commission of the crime. Um, once
[8:58] there's a dispos disposition on that
[9:00] crime, uh, if that person is found
[9:02] guilty, the, uh, county, uh, can apply
[9:04] for forfeite and the county would um,
[9:07] receive the site the whatever offending
[9:09] ebike or whatever cycle it was. um as a
[9:14] bureau we couldn't retain them merely
[9:16] and uh request or require them to take a
[9:18] class. That wouldn't be uh legal. But uh
[9:22] I think the mayor and I are looking to
[9:25] sit down and talk and uh look at a more
[9:27] restrictive policy for those ebikes in
[9:29] the very near future.
[9:30] » Okay. Thank you for that because I I
[9:33] really feel it's dangerous. I mean I at
[9:35] this point for pedestrians and drivers.
[9:37] » I completely agree because had a few
[9:39] runins this weekend myself. So,
[9:42] » Thank you.
[9:43] » And honestly, if we start seasoning
[9:45] bikes and scooters, word will get out
[9:47] there.
[9:47] » Yes, it will.
[9:48] » It'll get out there fast.
[9:49] » It only takes a few and then people
[9:51] start get the message when they're
[9:53] » When their bikes are being auctioned.
[9:55] » Thank you.
[10:00] » All right. Uh the next sign up is Mary
[10:02] Whitiser.
[10:10] Hi Frank. I'm good.
[10:14] » I'm not that tall. Oh, Mary Wickheiser.
[10:18] Good evening. Um, this morning my daily
[10:22] walk, needless to say, takes me on
[10:24] Walnut Street.
[10:26] And this morning the lights down at the
[10:31] intersection of Front and Walnut are
[10:34] flashing. They are yellow for Front
[10:36] Street. They are red for Walnut Street.
[10:42] As you come from the river park, there's
[10:46] a sign says do not stop on tracks. Now,
[10:50] if you're coming out of the river park,
[10:52] and my I was always taught, maybe I'm
[10:55] wrong, a flashing red light means you
[10:58] stop.
[10:59] If it's a yellow light, you proceed with
[11:01] caution.
[11:03] So, we're kind of back to the stop sign
[11:06] that used to be there. [clears throat]
[11:09] My concern with that, not only Norfolk
[11:14] Southern might get a little
[11:17] tick that we've got cars stopping on the
[11:19] tracks,
[11:21] but you've got a lot more people coming
[11:26] out of that river park than when it was
[11:28] a stop sign. When it was a stop sign, it
[11:32] was mainly the locals.
[11:34] The locals
[11:36] knew
[11:37] that they knew how to handle that
[11:39] intersection.
[11:41] So for how many years now has that been
[11:44] a signaled intersection?
[11:47] And
[11:50] do the pedestrian
[11:52] crossings still work? You got a lot more
[11:54] pedestrians going across Front Street
[11:56] than you ever had? I am seriously
[11:59] concerned if that's going to stay that
[12:01] way for the next six months.
[12:05] It was working this morning, Mary. I was
[12:06] down there before you.
[12:08] » Yeah,
[12:08] » The signals worked and the buttons
[12:10] worked because I used the buttons a
[12:12] little.
[12:12] » Okay.
[12:13] » And come [music] back again.
[12:14] » So, something must have happened while
[12:17] they were doing the construction today.
[12:18] » I don't know.
[12:19] » That might have knocked it out of whack.
[12:20] » Yeah, I was talking to Jake down there.
[12:23] I ran into him. I don't know.
[12:24] » He said he was.
[12:29] » Okay. So, we're back to regular red
[12:31] green.
[12:32] » Yeah,
[12:34] » I'll let you know if it happens again.
[12:36] [laughter]
[12:38] Um, the other thing I had sent an email
[12:42] last week
[12:44] and part of that email I think I sent it
[12:47] to Derek, to Leo,
[12:50] and to Jack, and it had to do with the
[12:53] sleepers down there, the curbing which
[12:56] is being taken care of.
[12:59] But over on Chestnut Street, there is a
[13:04] sign at Second and Chestnut that says
[13:07] road closed ahead.
[13:10] There is nothing at that jug handle. If
[13:12] you understand what I mean by the jug
[13:14] handle coming off of the bridge, there
[13:16] is nothing there. This morning as I came
[13:19] up second from Walnut Walking, there was
[13:21] a fire truck and four cars had come off
[13:24] on the jug handle.
[13:27] So
[13:28] there needs to be signage there
[13:32] where that curve we we always call them
[13:34] jug handles because if you look at that
[13:36] intersection you could pick it up by the
[13:38] jug handles. So I really think there's
[13:42] you need another sign. They've got to
[13:44] put another sign over there.
[13:46] » Thank you for
[13:49] » Derek did get back to me. He said it's
[13:51] mainly a pendot project. So there was
[13:53] nothing he could intervene with as far
[13:56] as that went. Um
[14:00] several months ago there was a local
[14:02] businessman in here and he had wanted to
[14:05] put signage
[14:08] on the fence down along 441.
[14:11] » Has anything been done to advance that?
[14:14] Has that fallen along the way? I know he
[14:16] was really
[14:18] at that point looking for something to
[14:21] be able to promote his business and
[14:23] possibly other businesses in town.
[14:25] » He he should he has a sign
[14:28] » On the fence.
[14:29] » Yes.
[14:30] » Good.
[14:31] » If the sign meets [music] the sign
[14:34] » Ordinance.
[14:35] » Okay.
[14:35] » And he has permission from Pendot, which
[14:38] I'm assuming.
[14:39] » No. Pendot.
[14:40] » Pendot said it's not our baby. That's
[14:43] yours.
[14:43] » Okay.
[14:44] » Okay. If the burrow approves it, someone
[14:48] comes in and proves and asks to put a
[14:50] sign there.
[14:51] » The burough approves it and it meets the
[14:52] sign
[14:54] height and width, they can put it there.
[14:56] » Yeah, he has a sign there. I was just as
[14:59] at his last week, he was talking
[15:01] » That way. So,
[15:02] » Couple days after that meeting, he had
[15:04] his sign.
[15:05] » Good. Good. Oh, my favorite subject,
[15:08] cats.
[15:11] It's not getting any better. People, you
[15:14] got to stop letting people feed them.
[15:18] Now we've got skunks coming up because
[15:20] the food's outside overnight.
[15:23] I got a dog. Do you ever try cleaning a
[15:25] dog that's been skunked?
[15:28] » I don't need that. None of you do.
[15:31] No one in this town does.
[15:34] If the food's out overnight, we can we
[15:37] can enforce that through codes because
[15:39] if if they have a registered colony, the
[15:42] food should not be out overnight.
[15:44] » And this registered colony thing,
[15:46] according to that ordinance, there's all
[15:48] kind of reports are supposed to be made
[15:50] on a yearly basis. Are you guys getting
[15:52] reports
[15:54] on these colonies? No, it's not
[15:58] colonies. It's just every cat from 30
[16:00] blocks around coming to these places.
[16:02] They go from this one to this one to
[16:04] this one. And then they go up on the
[16:06] garage roof and sit there to try and get
[16:08] the birds in the trees.
[16:12] It has got to end. We did not have this
[16:15] problem until they were allowed to feed
[16:18] them. The colonies aren't working. Thank
[16:20] you.
[16:22] » Thank you. Um, next sign up is John
[16:27] Wakefield.
[16:35] Okay. I'm the commander of common
[16:37] American Legion, the
[16:44] » Representing the
[16:48] police department,
[16:49] » The Columbia Police Department for the
[16:51] » Yeah, everything's there for the
[16:54] Columbia
[16:57] Police Department.
[16:59] » All right.
[17:00] » Thank you very much. Mhm.
[17:02] » Can we stand out front here?
[17:06] » I want to get a picture of you. Not a
[17:08] motorcycle.
[17:10] [snorts]
[17:11] [laughter]
[17:15] » Holly, what is the amount?
[17:21] » Thank you so much.
[17:29] » [laughter]
[17:31] [applause]
[17:38] » Thank you very much.
[17:39] » Yes. Thank you. Thank you to the
[17:41] American Legion.
[17:43] » Thank you.
[17:44] » Uh next sign up is Frank Dick.
[17:55] Good good evening [clears throat] you
[17:57] all. Uh
[18:00] I'm a little bit calmed down more since
[18:02] the last council meeting, but uh I want
[18:05] to give you my take on that meeting. I
[18:09] want to tell you about the good, the
[18:10] bad, and the ugly.
[18:13] When I walked into that room, I seen the
[18:17] microphones on the table,
[18:20] the streaming
[18:24] and and the uh
[18:28] the podium with a microphone. And I
[18:32] said, "Boy, things are really turned
[18:34] around." And I was about ready to clap,
[18:37] but I just I thought that is turning
[18:39] things around.
[18:41] uh now as far as the meeting the bottom
[18:45] line council did the right thing
[18:50] uh to vote for it actually that wasn't a
[18:53] true vote council didn't vote their true
[18:56] feelings and we don't know really how it
[18:59] would have went but I'm hearing as of
[19:02] today there's these data sees go data
[19:05] centers going in in Lancaster they're
[19:08] looking at one up where wise was They're
[19:11] going in different places and they're
[19:14] taking workers like from York over to
[19:17] welding shop. I just found out they're
[19:19] taking all their good workers to help
[19:21] build these buildings. So, they're going
[19:24] in, folks. Uh you're not going to stop
[19:26] them. Uh the people at that meeting
[19:30] thought, "Yay, yay. We won." Uh they
[19:33] upset that meeting so bad. They didn't
[19:35] win nothing. You did what you had to do.
[19:39] Now, as far as the meeting, folks, I
[19:43] went to a lot of meetings in my time. It
[19:46] was the worst, I mean, the worst meeting
[19:49] I ever attended.
[19:51] Council,
[19:53] that the B manager,
[19:56] uh, you were there, Holly, the mayor sit
[20:00] there.
[20:02] You did nothing. It's your job to keep
[20:06] the the quorum and everything down. As a
[20:08] matter of fact, this was put out by
[20:12] council says civilry and decorum burough
[20:16] officials and members of the public are
[20:18] expected to conduct themselves with
[20:20] civetry and to accord each other a
[20:24] measurement of dignity and respect.
[20:26] Shouting, foul language, personal
[20:29] insults, threats, attacks, or any
[20:33] conduct of that disrupts the flow of
[20:35] business is out of order.
[20:38] Where were you all at? Was you at a
[20:41] different meeting I was at,
[20:45] » Frank? No, we were all at that same
[20:47] meeting. We all sat up there and we took
[20:49] it. Do you know why
[20:50] » You you were afraid?
[20:52] » No, we were not afraid.
[20:54] » But as council, we act as a body.
[20:58] We don't have indiv we're we're we act
[21:01] as a body. We speak as a body and we are
[21:03] represented by the chair of council.
[21:08] We don't overrun and and go out. We are
[21:13] we are led by a leader and that's you
[21:17] didn't have a leader that night.
[21:19] » Anyone had the right you had the
[21:21] information to end that meeting. You
[21:24] were sitting on your butts doing
[21:26] absolutely nothing.
[21:28] » Robert's rules of order dictate the
[21:30] order of meetings. Robert's rules of
[21:32] order dictate that you can't discuss
[21:35] that that the that the board cannot make
[21:38] have discussions on an agenda item until
[21:40] there's an until there's a motion and a
[21:43] second.
[21:44] » In that in the case of that meeting, the
[21:47] public began speaking before the board
[21:49] was allowed to speak. Had the board been
[21:52] allowed to speak,
[21:54] » We would we would have been able that up
[21:56] and and
[21:57] » The questions the questions that come up
[22:00] to the board could have answered
[22:02] everything right there. That meeting
[22:04] didn't have to be that long. Uh the
[22:06] mayor had a suit on with a tie. Uh
[22:09] Ziggler, you had a suit on with a tie
[22:11] and our solicitor had on. That wasn't
[22:13] right. us sitting in the audience that
[22:16] that was just painful just sitting there
[22:19] and we had to stay to the end to find
[22:22] out. I would have left early but we had
[22:25] we had to end too.
[22:27] » Yes. But you could have ended it.
[22:29] Heather, you know, and I know you're
[22:31] you're talking about the rules. You just
[22:33] don't follow rules all the time. Come
[22:34] on.
[22:35] » I I know.
[22:37] » Uh anyway, it was absolutely terrible.
[22:41] Uh and like I say, you had information.
[22:43] you could have ended it. Uh it didn't
[22:46] have to go that long. Uh
[22:49] two of the people that night, uh the men
[22:52] of the night, uh Kelly and Asen, you
[22:56] spoke up. You tried to get them calmed
[22:58] down. That was every time somebody
[23:01] spoke. Why did you let that go like
[23:04] that?
[23:07] I I mean, it it was just cruel. Um, uh,
[23:12] I noticed Jack didn't say nothing.
[23:14] Barrett didn't say nothing. Council
[23:17] didn't say nothing. It was somebody's
[23:19] job to to
[23:22] orchestrate that to get that to go the
[23:24] right way. The one large cop, uh, I
[23:27] think it's Mr. Solders, he was there. He
[23:29] even walked up in front of the the
[23:32] council waiting for somebody to tell
[23:35] him, "Hey, do your job.
[23:38] Get get these people calmed down.
[23:41] Nobody
[23:43] you you were just afraid. That's just
[23:46] what I seen. Whether you like that or
[23:48] not, I don't know.
[23:49] » With all due respect, sir, it was our
[23:52] position there to listen to the comments
[23:54] of the people that came to that meeting
[23:55] that wish to share them. Just like you
[23:57] come to provide your comments. We don't
[24:00] have the right to stop you or ignore you
[24:02] or disregard what you have to say. And
[24:05] it was our place to listen. And yeah,
[24:07] they were rowdy, but in my opinion, I
[24:10] was there to listen to every comment uh
[24:13] in regards to this extremely important
[24:15] decision.
[24:17] » How do you explain this civic tree and
[24:19] decorum? How do you explain that?
[24:21] » I I guess that's a double-edged sword
[24:24] because not to throw any stones, but
[24:26] like for your phone ringing the entire
[24:28] meeting, I guess that would have fit in.
[24:31] Mhm.
[24:32] » Well, we we used to have, as you well
[24:35] know, the statement about this property
[24:39] decorum and meetings on our agenda. Um,
[24:42] that's one of the improvements that when
[24:44] our council president gets back, I want
[24:46] to talk to him about I want we
[24:48] definitely need to have that put back
[24:49] on. I'm not going to argue with you. It
[24:51] was it was
[24:53] » 14 and a half years on council without
[24:56] compare.
[24:58] Not absolutely
[25:00] 10 times the worst I've ever been at.
[25:03] » Thank you.
[25:03] » I've been council president for four
[25:05] years. I would never appreciate somebody
[25:08] speaking over me or trying to overrun me
[25:10] while I was running a meeting. I'm not
[25:11] saying it was run well, properly,
[25:13] whatever. I'm not saying that
[25:15] suggestions were made. Some were taken.
[25:18] Some weren't. And how I handled it was
[25:21] when my came my turn came to speak, you
[25:23] hear what I said. I said, I sat here and
[25:26] listened to you politely. You're going
[25:27] to sit there and be quiet for me or I'm
[25:29] I can sit here till one o'clock waiting
[25:32] for you to be quiet so I can speak. I'm
[25:33] not going to compete.
[25:34] » But Kelly, not in that manner. Not in
[25:37] that manner. Nobody.
[25:39] Believe me, what I seen,
[25:41] » Honestly, if I was president, it would
[25:43] have been handled differently, but I'm
[25:44] not.
[25:45] » Right.
[25:46] » But I think any of you are sitting up
[25:48] there and you see something like that,
[25:51] you bring the police out, you have them
[25:53] there, but you don't use them. They
[25:55] could have they could have squashed this
[25:57] immediately and then you also could have
[26:00] by by bringing out the results. So that
[26:02] don't don't tell me that you you're
[26:04] following the rules all the time because
[26:06] we sit here we see what's going on. Uh
[26:10] here's another issue. How did you know
[26:13] there was no no u
[26:16] weapons in that audience?
[26:19] Did you think to ever check anybody?
[26:24] I'm not picking on you co I'm talking
[26:26] you council as you're not saying
[26:27] anything that wasn't said
[26:28] » That was an ideal situation for us
[26:30] » Not saying anything that wasn't said
[26:31] » It was it was just terrible
[26:33] » And honestly Frank the
[26:38] the reason we've flagged and sharing the
[26:41] number of people in that room
[26:44] the reason that we said at that point it
[26:48] needed we needed to pair down the crowd
[26:51] it wasn't just the sheer number. But
[26:54] when people stood at that podium and
[26:56] started inciting the mob mentality to
[26:59] come out
[27:00] » Yeah.
[27:01] » It got unsafe.
[27:03] » Yeah.
[27:03] » And that's when I worried about weapons
[27:06] and this and and physical harm. It
[27:09] wasn't just the sheer number. It was
[27:11] about the behavior of the people
[27:13] speaking, the behavior of the crowd then
[27:16] yelling and, you know, getting everyone
[27:19] riled up. Not not only that, Heather,
[27:22] they degraded council. They didn't
[27:25] respect council whatsoever. The mayor,
[27:28] chief, the mer manager. That's what teed
[27:30] me off. They they took over the meeting.
[27:32] They controlled the meeting and that's
[27:34] what teed me off. I still felt that the
[27:38] council, the mayor, whoever, uh uh the
[27:42] police chief, whatever, they could have
[27:45] done something about that. And nobody
[27:47] did nothing. And that's what had me so
[27:50] burned up. I had
[27:51] » You see they had pizza delivered?
[27:53] » I
[27:54] » They were passing out pizza in the
[27:55] middle of the meeting. Yep.
[27:57] » Walking between the speaker and the
[27:58] board.
[27:59] » Well, I would hope
[28:01] » That's the pinnacle of respect.
[28:02] » I would hope Colombia would never go
[28:05] through this again. The Burough Council,
[28:08] I had a lot of comments. They sit down,
[28:10] had a lot of talks. Uh uh now they're
[28:14] coming out and and uh saying well uh a
[28:18] sleazy mayor and his seven dwarfs could
[28:22] have did something at that meeting in
[28:24] the end. But these are people that
[28:25] wasn't even there that brought this
[28:28] stuff up. Now they're labeling council
[28:30] because they let this stuff go.
[28:33] » Frank Gan and I are up at the PSAB
[28:35] conference this week. We we're up there
[28:38] every day.
[28:40] » Jean and I
[28:40] » Oh, okay. And uh I had no less than five
[28:44] people come up to me so far and say they
[28:48] either read the stories,
[28:52] heard the stories or saw a video came
[28:55] across their Facebook feed
[28:57] and they were from across the state
[29:01] and they wanted to know the story. So,
[29:03] no, it was not a good look for Colombia.
[29:07] » And and I just felt
[29:09] you being in power had the authority to
[29:13] stop that and you just sat on it. And
[29:16] then uh it even come out about the mayor
[29:19] being uh in office 25 years. Apparently,
[29:24] he didn't learn nothing because I'm sure
[29:25] he could have stood up and made a big
[29:27] difference if he if he thought to do so.
[29:31] » No, hold on, Frank. Go ahead.
[29:33] » U,
[29:35] the chief and I talked prior to the
[29:38] meeting that day and we had officers
[29:43] were stationed at certain places. If you
[29:46] saw the chief was on one end of the of
[29:49] the table, I was on the other end of the
[29:51] table.
[29:54] We we made it known that if
[29:59] and I don't want to throw anybody under
[30:00] the bus, but if we were if we were
[30:04] looked at and given the nod, we were
[30:07] going to act. We had several people in
[30:10] that audience targeted
[30:13] that they were w officers were watching
[30:16] and if there had been one false move,
[30:18] they had been out of there. So, we were
[30:20] the department was sitting there ready
[30:22] to act
[30:25] but didn't get the go-ahad and I don't
[30:27] have the authority to do that at that
[30:30] meeting as much as I would have loved
[30:32] to.
[30:34] I I left it up to the council council's
[30:37] meeting.
[30:38] We didn't get the call so we didn't act.
[30:40] But believe me, every one of those
[30:44] officers in there that night were poised
[30:47] and ready to act.
[30:49] And all they needed was the nod.
[30:51] » Well, [clears throat] there was one
[30:53] » I'll agree with you. It was terrible. It
[30:55] was terrible.
[30:55] » There was one officer out there. I never
[30:57] seen him before and I don't know if he
[30:59] was from Hempfield or somewhere else,
[31:00] but he told me who all the groups were,
[31:03] where they were from, and they were
[31:04] congregating outside, and I really
[31:07] appreciated that. But he said, "You
[31:08] better get in there, you won't get a
[31:10] seat." And well, my good friend here
[31:12] saved me one. But still, I I I just
[31:15] hated that that they degraded council. I
[31:19] try to respect you as much as I can. But
[31:22] there's times that that I just can't.
[31:25] But but uh
[31:26] » Frank, I give you credit for what you
[31:28] did at the meeting. Um you know, we've
[31:31] had our differences over the years.
[31:33] Yeah. Not just I mean personal, but
[31:35] council. And to give you credit, I'm not
[31:38] going to mention anybody's name.
[31:40] Somebody in this in this burrow came up
[31:42] to me and said, "Boy, you know, it's a
[31:44] rough a rough meeting when Frank Dick is
[31:47] sitting there and he is the voice of
[31:49] reason in the middle of a meeting."
[31:51] » Well,
[31:52] » Wow.
[31:52] » I I just I tried to be respectful. I
[31:55] just
[31:57] I was sitting there, too, but believe
[31:59] me, if I would have been sitting there
[32:01] that night, uh Eric Kaufman probably
[32:03] would have resigned the next day because
[32:06] I I would have chewed him out bad. Uh,
[32:09] and I still think he ought to resign for
[32:11] not just sitting there with his hands.
[32:13] You had the fivem minute break. And I
[32:15] said, Eric, you've got to do something
[32:17] about this. Well, he says, "We're going
[32:19] to sweat them out."
[32:21] You're not sweating them. You're
[32:22] sweating all of us out. You're you're
[32:24] you're making all of us.
[32:27] » Yes. That's what he said. And And
[32:30] believe me, it's just I'll never forget
[32:32] that meeting. And I don't know what
[32:33] yours are going to do at the next
[32:35] meeting that they have, but uh but also
[32:39] I'm hearing that they're putting these
[32:40] data centers in all over. And I agree
[32:43] you you did the right thing at that
[32:44] meeting. Uh
[32:47] » I'll get off of that subject. I just got
[32:49] one other thing here. What is being done
[32:52] with the tow truck ordinance that we
[32:55] have? It's my understanding that
[32:58] over the years it was supposed to be
[33:02] as one uh gets called at night. Now they
[33:06] they rotate. There was three of them
[33:08] that rotated. Is this still going on?
[33:13] » Frank, you keep bringing this up and I
[33:15] don't I don't think anyone has actually
[33:18] » Address this, but this is not an
[33:20] ordinance.
[33:20] » It's not an ordinance. This is this is a
[33:23] operational matter and and and it's not
[33:26] under the purview of of council. I mean
[33:30] this is one of those one of those
[33:32] non-legislative things that we delegate
[33:35] to the manager to the police department
[33:38] for operational procedures.
[33:39] » But Heather council or the mayor not the
[33:42] mayor council or the police department
[33:45] has been running this and controlling
[33:47] this.
[33:49] So if it's not in orders, they shouldn't
[33:51] be doing this. Then
[33:52] » This police department,
[33:53] » The council has not been
[33:54] » Council has nothing to do with this. And
[33:56] the police department when they they
[33:58] have a policy, they have a procedure for
[34:00] when they need to call a tow truck
[34:03] » And that is handled strictly by the
[34:06] police department.
[34:08] That that's not in our perview.
[34:10] » For year for years, we you're absolutely
[34:13] right. for years and and up until unless
[34:16] it changed and I wasn't aware of it. The
[34:19] officers
[34:21] picked like one, two, three, one, two,
[34:23] three that that way. Uh I went through
[34:26] this several times with Glen Keller over
[34:29] the years and what would happen is if
[34:31] someone gets called and they don't
[34:33] respond, they lose their turn until it
[34:36] goes comes back around again.
[34:39] The department is in the process of
[34:42] putting that that policy in place. One
[34:46] of the problems we have that we didn't
[34:48] act on it right away, but it is in place
[34:51] right now. But in order to act enact the
[34:54] policy because the department is going
[34:57] through
[34:58] uh certification
[35:01] it has to be the policy has to be
[35:04] written sent to the certification group
[35:07] and they have to approve it and then
[35:10] comes back to us and and is enacted. So
[35:12] it's a matter of it's not just us
[35:14] creating policy and putting it in place.
[35:16] Although in the interim, we're still
[35:18] going to one, two, three. One of the one
[35:21] of the sticking points right now is
[35:25] how do how do you do it? Do you set it
[35:27] up by the week, by the month, or by the
[35:30] day? Okay. And we're talking with the
[35:33] the chief is talking with the officers.
[35:35] What is the best way for them to
[35:37] implement this? Do they want to do it
[35:39] weekly, monthly, or whatever? But it has
[35:42] to go to certification and come back.
[35:45] The other part of that that people don't
[35:47] realize is if you're involved in an
[35:50] accident and your vehicle must be towed,
[35:54] you have the right to call any tower
[35:57] that you want. So so many times when
[36:00] other towers see other groups
[36:04] make making the tow, they just assume
[36:06] that the that the police department did
[36:08] that. And many times it isn't. the the
[36:12] individual who owns the car said, "No, I
[36:14] want XYZ to pick my vehicle up." Just
[36:18] like me, if if I was involved in an
[36:20] accident and I get my work done, say at
[36:23] at at Apple, I would say, "No, call
[36:26] Apple, have them come pick it up because
[36:27] I don't want to pay a tow bill
[36:29] » To tow it somewhere and then have to tow
[36:31] it somewhere else to be fixed."
[36:34] » And also insurance companies. Yeah. Like
[36:36] someone calls State Farm and they say,
[36:38] "Oh, I need roadside assistance because
[36:40] I wrecked my car." State Farm is going
[36:42] to call whoever State Farm is going to
[36:44] call it.
[36:45] » So 3A's,
[36:46] » Right? And AAA is the same thing.
[36:47] » So it's it's a it's weird, but we will
[36:51] have a policy that says this is who's
[36:53] called whatever day or week,
[36:57] first, second, third.
[37:00] » I think they all want this. They all
[37:02] want a policy. of the the ones that I
[37:05] talked to. I didn't talk to all of them,
[37:06] » But they they all want a policy and
[37:09] there's a lot connected to that. Uh uh
[37:12] maybe you want maybe you want to call
[37:14] the Ford garage to come pick your car
[37:15] up. Well, that could be an extra hour or
[37:17] something like that. And if the cars in
[37:19] the center of the road or whatever,
[37:20] there's so many issues. This was why we
[37:23] wanted to sit down with council, get
[37:25] them all here, find out their their
[37:28] issues. But how are you going to do
[37:30] that? You're going to do it like it was
[37:32] done. What was the guy's name across
[37:34] from Savemore up on the hill? I did that
[37:37] for years.
[37:38] » Jeff. Jeff.
[37:39] » Jeff.
[37:40] » Jeff. Jeff. Yeah. My understanding he
[37:43] got mostly all the towing. And I guess
[37:45] that's where color from then,
[37:47] » You know.
[37:48] » Yeah.
[37:50] » But Glenn,
[37:52] got him.
[37:54] » Glenn would only take the calls he
[37:56] wanted.
[37:57] » And then he say, I I I'm not getting any
[37:59] calls. Well, after a while, I guess
[38:01] people got tired of calling calling
[38:03] Glenn. And then there again, Jeff had to
[38:05] body shop and Glenn wasn't doing the
[38:08] body work anymore. So,
[38:11] you know, what do you do? You get you
[38:13] get uh the body shop to pick it up
[38:15] because that's where it's going to end
[38:17] up.
[38:18] » Yeah. Well,
[38:19] » It's it's not an easy thing, but we're
[38:21] going to set the policy and it won't be
[38:24] it won't be perfect because of all the
[38:26] other implications to it.
[38:29] » But but Leo, how do you do that without
[38:31] getting their take? How do you come up
[38:34] with all this information where truly my
[38:38] gut feeling is this has been done wrong
[38:40] all the time it's been done. And how do
[38:43] you do that with not having the people
[38:45] here? How how much different is it to do
[38:48] one two three or whatever? You can't you
[38:50] can't make it any different.
[38:53] » Well, but if you got them here, you'll
[38:55] find out why maybe number one was called
[38:58] more than number two when you find out
[39:01] when they're padded little extra dollars
[39:04] here and there.
[39:05] » I'm sure there'll be well because of the
[39:06] certification they'll be recordeping.
[39:09] that that's part of accreditation is the
[39:11] documentation of who's being called when
[39:14] by what officer and a lot goes into it
[39:17] like the mayor said um they have to have
[39:19] certain insurance everything has to be
[39:20] state regulated so and we're looking at
[39:23] within three to five miles you know we
[39:25] don't want citizens having to travel 10
[39:26] miles outside the burrow to get their
[39:28] car so there's a lot of moving parts and
[39:30] like I said everything that we do now
[39:32] moving forward has to go through the
[39:34] accreditation company and then it comes
[39:36] back to us none of them do it So
[39:39] » This group you said Leo, you get all the
[39:42] information together. You have to send
[39:43] it to this group and then they approve
[39:44] it or whatever they do. Who is this
[39:46] group?
[39:47] » It's it's it's an accreditation company.
[39:49] » It's called Aspire [cough] Aspiring
[39:51] [clears throat]
[39:52] Consulting.
[39:53] » Excuse me.
[39:54] » They they they
[39:56] do the accreditation to for police
[40:00] departments in Pennsylvania to be listed
[40:03] as a a certified police department.
[40:06] » Okay. I I just never heard of that.
[40:08] » Yeah, it's a lot of record people.
[40:10] » Thanks for listening.
[40:12] » Great. Is there anyone else that did not
[40:14] sign up that would like to speak? Yes,
[40:16] Scott.
[40:21] » Scott Frederick.
[40:23] um to address some of your points.
[40:27] Frank, I am your bud, but I respectfully
[40:31] disagree
[40:33] in the respect that
[40:36] council doesn't deserve to be blasted
[40:38] like they
[40:41] just were. In my opinion,
[40:44] it was an extremely emotionally charged
[40:47] meeting. You showed a lot of restraint.
[40:52] I thought when that one girl was
[40:55] dropping the fbomb, I kind of tuned her
[40:58] out at that point,
[41:01] but
[41:03] and then another girl talked for 11
[41:05] minutes. I mean, I kept looking at Eric
[41:08] going,
[41:09] I mean, come on. I mean, it's supposed
[41:11] to be 10, right? Is that my
[41:13] understanding? Five. I thought we upped
[41:15] that till 10.
[41:16] » It's 10. It's 10, but basically, there's
[41:19] no time limit,
[41:20] » Right? It's five and then you can ask
[41:21] for another 10 minutes and get it. Um, I
[41:24] thought you guys showed a lot of
[41:26] restraint,
[41:27] the
[41:31] abuse, if we want to call it that,
[41:34] toward council and
[41:36] the representatives.
[41:40] Although I thought it got out of hand at
[41:42] sometimes at some points,
[41:46] I can honestly say that I can understand
[41:50] it and it was warranted to a certain
[41:52] degree.
[41:56] councils in the past.
[42:01] Like it or not, this council is taking
[42:05] the brunt for prior councils that have
[42:11] disregarded citizen comments.
[42:15] If they'd be taken to heart, that
[42:18] property wouldn't even been bought
[42:19] because it was overwhelmingly do not buy
[42:23] it when it was bought. And we have some
[42:26] people that really pushed it through and
[42:28] it seemed like it was pushed through
[42:31] during the middle of the night.
[42:33] Um,
[42:36] honestly, I don't think again you guys
[42:40] you showed a lot of restraint.
[42:42] Kelly, I commend you
[42:45] because at times, yes, people shut up
[42:49] and listen to what the speaker is
[42:52] saying. It got out of hand a little bit,
[42:55] but because it was such an emotionally
[42:57] charged thing,
[43:00] you got to give the citizens, Frank
[43:03] said, they were out of control. We are
[43:08] they.
[43:09] So, they were conveying to council what
[43:15] our thoughts were and it needs to be
[43:18] taken to heart. It needs to be taken to
[43:21] heart because we are the taxpayer. We
[43:24] are the ones that are footing the bill.
[43:27] You've gota You guys
[43:31] have been entrusted by votes to make a
[43:35] determination,
[43:36] but you can't disregard your
[43:38] constituents
[43:40] and it has to be open and it has to be a
[43:44] very clear process.
[43:46] » I'd just like to respond to that. I mean
[43:48] I more and there's a lot of people on
[43:51] council here sitting here that have been
[43:52] on council. I've been on council for 14
[43:54] and a half years. I have worked with
[43:57] people from Mike Bury and Vern Dets on
[44:00] up to the current council. So a lot of
[44:02] different personalities, a lot of
[44:03] different viewpoints, etc., etc. I have
[44:06] never worked with a council that just
[44:08] said the hell with it. We'll just
[44:10] disregard what they say. What the public
[44:13] says has always influenced
[44:16] decisions that are made. Always, not
[44:18] sometimes, always. And I will tell you
[44:21] this much too,
[44:23] how bad that meeting was. You wonder why
[44:26] you can't get anybody decent in this
[44:29] town to run for council to fill some of
[44:32] these vacancies or even volunteer their
[44:34] time for these boards. Why in God's name
[44:37] would you want to submit yourself to
[44:39] crap like that? Why? You'd have to be
[44:42] insane. My wife tell me all the time,
[44:43] you've got to be crazy. You're going to
[44:45] be 16 years until you're done. Why? I
[44:48] said because I want to see the town
[44:50] better. You people don't believe that. I
[44:52] don't care.
[44:53] » Well, my wife
[44:54] » Can't help it.
[44:54] » My wife has suggested that I run for
[44:57] council.
[44:58] I say, and I've told Ethan,
[45:00] » Get thick skin. Start rubbing lemon on
[45:02] it right now.
[45:03] » Well, no. I have a thick skin cuz I
[45:06] don't care.
[45:06] » I'm Irish.
[45:07] » I don't care what people think about me.
[45:11] But my take is people don't want to hear
[45:13] the truth. And if you are full and you
[45:17] are right in their face and you tell
[45:19] them what you know to be true with the
[45:24] information that you have at hand,
[45:27] people don't want to hear it.
[45:29] » And
[45:30] » I'm one of these. You know what? you can
[45:33] go ddle yourself in the next room
[45:34] because I don't care what you think as
[45:37] long as I know in my heart of hearts
[45:41] what is right, what is just and what is
[45:44] fair to everybody.
[45:48] That's most important thing. Um,
[45:53] I was going to make one other comment,
[45:55] but it
[45:59] it went. So, uh, thank you for
[46:03] listening. I just had to get up and
[46:05] address some of the points that Frank
[46:07] made. Honestly, I think you guys did
[46:10] pretty darn well. I thought yes, it was
[46:13] a very high charge thing and oh, as far
[46:17] as the AI centers going up all over, let
[46:21] them go up all over. We can't take it
[46:24] here in this town. We shouldn't take it.
[46:28] Thank you.
[46:30] » One thing I'd like to I'd like to say,
[46:31] Scott, yes. Is
[46:33] » You know, everyone
[46:36] I I often hear what you said about you
[46:38] don't listen to the people. Well,
[46:42] there's always multiple sides
[46:45] » To the issue
[46:48] » And no matter what decision is made,
[46:51] it's always going to be
[46:55] against what someone believes.
[46:56] » Yeah. You can't please all the people
[46:58] all the time. So, please.
[46:59] » So,
[47:01] you say people were overwhelmingly
[47:03] against
[47:05] » The purchase,
[47:06] » Whatever.
[47:08] However,
[47:09] » And the
[47:10] » We go by
[47:13] » The people that are coming to officially
[47:17] address us and also that we unofficially
[47:19] see in our daily lives.
[47:21] » Absolutely.
[47:24] » And I can honestly say when I sat here
[47:27] and voted for that purchase because Eric
[47:30] and I are the two that were here that
[47:32] that
[47:33] » I didn't name you. I didn't name you,
[47:34] but I said there were two. I know you
[47:36] want
[47:36] » I have some discretion.
[47:38] » But you know what?
[47:40] When we were sitting here making that
[47:42] decision,
[47:43] the majority of of the feedback we were
[47:46] hearing at the time was yes, we want a
[47:50] vehicle for economic development. We
[47:54] want something to happen that is going
[47:56] to expand our tax base and this is the
[47:59] this is the way to do it. And that is
[48:02] the feedback we heard. I'm not I'm not
[48:05] listening to the people that have the
[48:06] mom mentality on Facebook,
[48:08] » Right?
[48:09] » I'm not listening there. So, if that's
[48:10] where you're saying that's where the
[48:12] people are talking,
[48:13] » That they're keyboard warriors in my
[48:15] mind. Come and talk to me officially.
[48:18] Well, I was at the meetings during that
[48:20] time of the purchase.
[48:23] And
[48:28] I'm not going to ask you individually,
[48:30] the members of council, what they think,
[48:32] but when I spoke last week,
[48:37] I've always always always been a
[48:39] proponent of this. No municipality
[48:42] should own a forprofit
[48:45] property.
[48:47] If you're using it for municipal use,
[48:50] great. But if you're using it with the
[48:54] intent to make money off of it, that's a
[48:57] conflict of interest because you're
[48:58] making the ordinances and the provisions
[49:01] that that property owner has to abide
[49:03] by. I don't think that's fair. I don't
[49:06] think that's right. And I never will.
[49:09] » Give me speak to that. Go ahead.
[49:13] » The bureau bought the property.
[49:16] Okay?
[49:18] Not to make money off of, but to control
[49:21] what went there. If the burrow would
[49:24] not, if someone else would have bought
[49:26] that property,
[49:28] you could have had housing in there. You
[49:31] could have had uh factories in there,
[49:33] warehouses,
[49:35] the data center, and all. You could have
[49:37] had that whole myriad of oper people
[49:40] could have put it in there by by the
[49:43] burrow owning it and selling it the way
[49:46] they did. They had some control
[49:50] » And never sold it. May there
[49:52] » You never sold the property.
[49:55] » What? I don't know what you're saying.
[49:56] » You said when we had it and we sold it.
[50:00] » No. No. When
[50:03] when we purchased the property I may
[50:05] have missed. When we purchased the
[50:06] property, we had control, okay, over who
[50:10] bought it and what they bought it for,
[50:14] okay? Someone could have bought that
[50:17] from the family and put a data center in
[50:19] there. They could have put a warehouse
[50:22] in there, anything that fit within that
[50:24] zoning at that time. They could have put
[50:26] it all in there. And we said, "We don't
[50:28] want to take that gamble and have
[50:30] something in there that's not going to
[50:32] be conducive to the community. So, we're
[50:35] going to buy it
[50:37] and then we'll sell it and then we'll
[50:41] have the right by being to selling it.
[50:43] We have that right to find out what is
[50:46] going to go in there. And as you saw,
[50:48] the planning commission changed the
[50:51] zoning
[50:52] and and only allowed certain things
[50:56] within that district so that they the
[50:58] bureau can control what's going to
[51:00] happen there.
[51:02] If if the bureau didn't own it and
[51:05] someone bought it, they could have done
[51:06] whatever zoning would have allowed.
[51:09] » Zoning, which we council,
[51:12] » Right,
[51:13] » Controls. And and with that with that
[51:15] whole thing, here's one of the most
[51:17] important things that came out last week
[51:20] that has to come out and has to be done
[51:23] before anything is this is me speaking
[51:25] now. Before anything's done with that
[51:28] property,
[51:30] one of the first things that has to
[51:31] happen is
[51:35] there needs to be for data centers.
[51:38] Let's pick on data centers, okay? not
[51:40] other for data centers there has to be a
[51:44] text amendment that says you can do this
[51:47] this this and this and you can't do
[51:49] other things there are certain things
[51:51] you can't do that has to happen because
[51:54] data centers are coming and I don't know
[51:56] if we'll ever put a data center there
[51:58] that's that's up to the bureau and
[51:59] whoever but regardless
[52:03] you know someone could come in and offer
[52:06] the burrow
[52:08] $6 million for
[52:10] and say, "Well, we're going to hold it
[52:12] and we'll see what we're going to do
[52:13] with it." Okay. They could turn around
[52:16] the next day and put a data center in.
[52:19] » Not if it's against the zoning.
[52:21] » That's No, that it's it's allowed. It's
[52:24] It's allowed
[52:25] » Because just last year you guys put it
[52:27] in that it is allowed.
[52:29] » It has to be.
[52:29] » Take it out.
[52:30] » It has to be allowed somewhere in the
[52:32] municipality. By law,
[52:33] » It doesn't
[52:36] has to be allowed in Columbia Burrow.
[52:39] » Any really
[52:41] » In in in state law, your zoning
[52:44] ordinance must allow for every possible
[52:47] use. If it does not, you run the risk of
[52:51] being taken to court and you can they
[52:54] can declare that you are being
[52:56] exclusionary. In which case they would
[52:58] offer a curative amendment meaning the
[53:02] court would tell you how you have to
[53:04] change your zoning ordinance
[53:06] » And the court would say you have to
[53:08] allow it.
[53:08] » Yes,
[53:09] » That's the statement.
[53:10] » You have to allow the possibility of it.
[53:13] » You can put it anywhere.
[53:15] » Yes, you can put it anywhere.
[53:16] » The possibility of it, but you guys
[53:21] » In effect vote on it. But if we do not
[53:24] have it in the zoning ordinance,
[53:26] » If we don't have it in the zoning
[53:28] ordinance,
[53:29] » There's no vote.
[53:30] » Then there's there's no vote for it. It
[53:32] can go anywhere because the court says
[53:34] it can.
[53:37] » That's the way it works.
[53:39] » Yeah. There's some other businesses over
[53:41] the years that we took that same route
[53:43] to to tell them where they couldn't
[53:45] couldn't be, shall we say? You know what
[53:47] I'm talking about?
[53:48] » Yep.
[53:49] » Okay. Okay. So yeah, the state law is is
[53:53] very clear and that's why that's why
[53:56] municipalities are trying very hard to
[53:59] get the ordinances in place because you
[54:04] can't just tell someone, "No, you can't
[54:06] locate that here because all it's going
[54:08] to take is couple couple of people going
[54:12] to court. Now your municipality is
[54:14] spending a whole lot of money on
[54:16] solicitor cost and you're fighting
[54:18] against state law.
[54:22] You can't say you're not allowed to do
[54:25] that here.
[54:26] » Okay. We'll just say no. Whenever
[54:27] anybody says that they want to put an AI
[54:29] center out there, I think everybody
[54:31] knows that it would be catastrophic for
[54:33] our environment.
[54:34] » If we own it, we can do that
[54:38] » And that's the case now
[54:39] » And that's why we bought it.
[54:43] I don't agree with that decision, but
[54:44] okay, there might be some upside to it
[54:47] in that case.
[54:48] » But keep in mind what Colombia Burough
[54:52] has said last week. That's all I ask.
[54:55] » You know, if you put just one one side
[54:57] note,
[54:58] » If you were to put residential housing
[55:00] in there [snorts] in the back part, the
[55:03] back part probably meets the one mile
[55:06] threshold that Columbia Burough School
[55:09] District would have to bus every student
[55:10] in Columbia. Yep.
[55:12] » So that's that was another one why we
[55:14] didn't want housing in there.
[55:25] » No, but the issue there, Frank, you
[55:27] can't is is the majority of those
[55:30] retirement communities are nonprofit and
[55:32] the whole point of that pro of that of
[55:34] getting that parcel was to expand the
[55:36] tax base.
[55:40] No, Frank, I would consider as long as
[55:42] it's forward.
[55:43] » Yeah.
[55:44] » Absolutely.
[55:44] » No, it was not.
[55:46] » And pilots for
[55:48] » Hello everyone. My name is Damian. Um I
[55:50] live here in Colombia. I spoke with the
[55:53] mayor last week about the data center.
[55:55] » Damian, can you give your last name just
[55:56] we have it for the record?
[55:57] » It's Damen Bar. Uh I've been living in
[56:00] Plain Street uh since COVID. I bought my
[56:03] house during COVID. Thank god I didn't
[56:05] buy it now. Uh but anyway, uh some of
[56:09] the things that have been brought up is
[56:11] there is possible ways that we could
[56:14] restrict the data center even though
[56:16] it's against state law, right? And
[56:19] that's our up to our state
[56:20] representatives that they want to put in
[56:22] a momentum to stop the data centers,
[56:25] which be frank, they probably will never
[56:28] do that. Um, I have some burrow
[56:31] ordinances and some tax amendments if
[56:33] you'd like to look over them. It's puts
[56:37] a tax on anything that they produce, you
[56:41] know, restricts them using our
[56:43] electrical grid. Um, if they use a
[56:45] certain percentage over the normal use
[56:47] of a warehouse or regular house, there
[56:50] are taxed, you know, for every 1% it
[56:52] would be 5%. So, it would be like a
[56:55] rebate. Those are some of the things you
[56:57] can do legally to prevent possibly
[57:00] prevent a data center from going in. Um
[57:04] I spoke to I work two jobs. You know, I
[57:07] work 17 hours a day. Usually I'm tired.
[57:10] Um but when I was able to talk to
[57:13] citizens for an hour, just going around
[57:16] asking them what they thought, out of
[57:19] the hundred people that I was able to
[57:20] talk to in an hour, all of them said
[57:22] they didn't want a data center.
[57:25] So, how many people is that in an hour?
[57:28] Significant amount of people.
[57:31] » So, that that's just being said. Um, you
[57:35] know, kids in my generation don't want
[57:36] to come up and say anything because they
[57:39] feel like they have no voice. We've been
[57:41] taught we have no voice. You know,
[57:43] whether that be from our parents or
[57:45] media. Um, I think it's my job to start
[57:49] getting involved. I didn't even know
[57:51] about the meeting until I saw it on
[57:54] Facebook.
[57:55] » Um maybe there's a way that we could,
[57:57] you know, bring it to younger
[57:59] generations eyes a little bit better,
[58:02] you know, and there is
[58:06] a problem with how people act, but
[58:09] that's been that way since co people
[58:12] can't handle their emotions properly
[58:14] anymore. And that's sad. It is, but
[58:17] there's nothing we can really change
[58:20] honestly. So, that's something I have
[58:23] brought up. And if the mayor would like
[58:25] to see those copies, I have them.
[58:27] » Yes, I I I'll be glad to have a bunch of
[58:29] matter of fact,
[58:30] » If you read the
[58:34] » Bills
[58:35] » That were put forth at the legislature.
[58:38] It's just about it. They touch on every
[58:40] one of the things you're saying, but
[58:42] that's what I was saying just before you
[58:43] spoke. It is it's imperative that this
[58:47] council puts together that text
[58:49] amendment saying this is what you can do
[58:53] and then that's the list. So anybody
[58:55] coming in here to do this is what you
[58:58] can do. The only bill in that whole
[59:01] package of bills that stands a chance of
[59:04] passing, we were talking about this
[59:05] before the meeting. The only one that
[59:08] stands a chance of meeting of of passing
[59:10] is there's a bill that says that directs
[59:14] Department of Community and Economic
[59:15] Development to to come up with a model
[59:19] ordinance listing all these
[59:23] things that you can't have, you can't
[59:26] do. Uh so that municipalities can use
[59:30] that model ordinance. There's a lot of
[59:32] small municipalities that can't afford
[59:35] the money that it takes to create that.
[59:38] Some of them don't even have zoning to
[59:40] create all that. And that's some of the
[59:42] places they're picking on with the data
[59:44] centers. So, that could pass, but the
[59:48] other ones won't pass. I'm I'm almost
[59:51] willing to say I'll bet you they won't
[59:53] pass because
[59:55] the state legislature doesn't want to
[59:58] create rules that the municipalities
[1:00:02] have to go by. They would rather see the
[1:00:04] municipality
[1:00:06] do its own create its own rules. And I
[1:00:09] agree with that.
[1:00:11] So, you know, now the governor came out
[1:00:14] and he had some some things in the paper
[1:00:17] and he had some rules and regulations,
[1:00:19] but everybody forgot to read the part
[1:00:21] the fine print on it is if you want
[1:00:24] their money,
[1:00:26] » You will meet these this criteria.
[1:00:28] » So, it wasn't for all of us. It was if
[1:00:31] you're after our money, you'll meet this
[1:00:33] criteria. But this is good stuff and
[1:00:35] this, you know, we'll get this over to
[1:00:37] council and all and a lot of this needs
[1:00:40] to be put into that text amendment.
[1:00:42] » I did that on the three hours I have
[1:00:44] available.
[1:00:46] » You got to sleep sometime.
[1:00:49] [laughter]
[1:00:51] » And now school's out.
[1:00:55] » Oh, okay. I will mention that last week
[1:00:57] in the packet uh the ordinance that we
[1:01:00] moved past is exactly what you're
[1:01:02] talking about of a way to restrict what
[1:01:04] data centers can and can't do. That was
[1:01:06] compiled by the solicitor mostly just
[1:01:08] grabbing ordinances from nearby areas.
[1:01:11] So it's not comprehensive and it is not
[1:01:13] in a state that we were going to vote on
[1:01:15] it. It was just a discussion item. Um,
[1:01:18] but you can bet that we are going to
[1:01:21] work to get that to be as strict as
[1:01:23] possible and that in the case that a
[1:01:26] data center does build somewhere in
[1:01:29] Colombia because we have to allow it
[1:01:30] somewhere. Um, it is as restrictive as
[1:01:34] possible to minimize any sort of effects
[1:01:36] uh on any citizens.
[1:01:39] » Yeah. Um there's taxes that the burial
[1:01:46] tax
[1:01:48] but then five six years down the road to
[1:01:52] the citizens to then pay for
[1:01:55] » The area.
[1:01:56] » Yeah.
[1:01:58] So in that you're able to test AI
[1:02:02] producing whatever storage whatever
[1:02:06] just like we're working
[1:02:09] in the warehouse but we don't really
[1:02:11] produce anything
[1:02:13] you know what I'm saying
[1:02:14] » Yeah 100%
[1:02:20] yeah and as we have that discussion
[1:02:21] that'll be something that publicly we
[1:02:23] talk about for sure and there will be
[1:02:25] plenty of chance for us to get feedback
[1:02:27] back on that through the process. Um
[1:02:29] just hoping to get it passed sooner
[1:02:32] rather than later.
[1:02:33] » Yeah. One of, you know, I don't want to
[1:02:34] drag a state on other things to do, but
[1:02:37] uh one of one of the things that I see
[1:02:40] mentioned quite quite a bit is
[1:02:44] any electricity they use will not cause
[1:02:49] residential electricity rates to rise.
[1:02:53] So that that's one that's in just about
[1:02:55] every one of the bills I've seen. You
[1:02:57] know,
[1:02:58] » Most of them require bring your own
[1:02:59] power.
[1:03:00] » Yeah. And and to build
[1:03:02] » And one thing you got to understand,
[1:03:03] these data centers are evolving.
[1:03:06] Most of them are running uh water
[1:03:09] systems that are closed looped. They're
[1:03:11] not drawing water out of the river or
[1:03:13] anything like that.
[1:03:14] » Some don't even use water.
[1:03:16] » Yeah. And or and they're also generating
[1:03:19] their own electric.
[1:03:21] not
[1:03:23] » And I I talked to a gentleman who's in
[1:03:25] this this field and he said the new the
[1:03:29] new generation of data centers
[1:03:34] what was proposed out there is like a
[1:03:36] mini
[1:03:37] » Wouldn't use very much of anything that
[1:03:40] that a lot of discussions
[1:03:44] » Yeah it's it's a like I say it's a very
[1:03:46] supercharged
[1:03:48] uh discussion and and you know the
[1:03:50] people that live out manner in that end
[1:03:52] of town you are fortunate that you know
[1:03:56] they they had this process ahead of time
[1:03:58] I mean when I was doing my you know like
[1:03:59] I said dude doing my research talking to
[1:04:01] people all over town same way and I got
[1:04:04] responses the other way okay well I
[1:04:06] understand their concern but gez how do
[1:04:09] you think I feel living next to a
[1:04:10] certain foundry and I have to smell that
[1:04:12] all night long or I live this other one
[1:04:14] and that's just as bad or and I'm not
[1:04:17] I'm only here since 2002 so it didn't
[1:04:19] affect me but they're like oh geez And
[1:04:20] what about all of us that live on when
[1:04:23] they put Route 30 through there? You
[1:04:25] know, all the people that got their
[1:04:26] homes taken from them and displaced and
[1:04:28] now everybody lives out there listens to
[1:04:30] the drone of a of a highway all night
[1:04:32] long. So, I mean, everyone needs to
[1:04:34] understand it's it's
[1:04:37] the you're talk you're dealing with
[1:04:38] other people have been through it, too.
[1:04:44] » All right.
[1:04:48] Mhm.
[1:04:52] » I really appreciate the work you do and
[1:04:55] it's not a fun job and it's a lot of
[1:04:57] noise. Um, I've had one of those jobs
[1:05:01] and I get it and now I have time to
[1:05:03] volunteer and I would like to become
[1:05:05] more of an active part of Colombia.
[1:05:10] If I were a web master, I would
[1:05:11] volunteer my services there. There is a
[1:05:14] volunteer form on your website. Um, I
[1:05:17] don't know where it goes. Um, and I'd
[1:05:20] like to help with that. Um, the bios for
[1:05:25] our council people are outdated on the
[1:05:28] website. Uh, but if I could help, I
[1:05:32] would like to. Um, I had a job where I
[1:05:35] took a lot of bullying from
[1:05:37] bazillionaires, but maybe now it's my
[1:05:40] time to leverage some of those
[1:05:42] relationships to see if someone can have
[1:05:46] a vision for that field that is
[1:05:49] beautiful that maintains the beauty of
[1:05:52] it. Um, Mr. Doctor, is that your name?
[1:05:55] Frank.
[1:05:58] Um,
[1:06:00] if you are pro- data center behind my
[1:06:03] house, I would love to invite you to my
[1:06:05] house and we'll have iced tea and we'll
[1:06:08] look out on that land. It's not just the
[1:06:11] water stuff, it's also the noise
[1:06:14] and that's real. And I would invite any
[1:06:16] of you I I regret the other night. I
[1:06:19] know you called us they I was one of the
[1:06:22] people that did try to bring the
[1:06:23] temperature down that night and that is
[1:06:27] a superpower that I have. If you could
[1:06:29] leverage that, I am at your service.
[1:06:33] Um,
[1:06:35] but
[1:06:37] yeah, I think we need imagination
[1:06:41] and a real vision that is worthy of
[1:06:46] Colombia
[1:06:48] and relationships that can bring people
[1:06:52] that could share that vision. And it's
[1:06:55] not just data centers or nothing. I
[1:06:58] think there are some amazing things
[1:07:00] right in our county. We've watched lit
[1:07:04] reinvent itself with rock lit. Like who
[1:07:07] brought that up at a council meeting?
[1:07:09] Like I have this idea that we'll bring
[1:07:12] Lady Gaga and Beyonce and she'll they'll
[1:07:15] want to hang out in Lancaster County,
[1:07:17] Pennsylvania.
[1:07:19] Um or what Spooky Nook did creating the
[1:07:22] athletic stuff like who brought that up
[1:07:25] and got laughed out of a council meeting
[1:07:27] that night but then they did it. So,
[1:07:30] that is where I would really love to
[1:07:32] help if I can help with creativity and
[1:07:35] relationships. Um,
[1:07:38] I'm I'm here. I We have wonderful
[1:07:41] neighbors that I want to support and um
[1:07:45] thank you for making this space
[1:07:46] available.
[1:07:48] » Thank you.
[1:07:49] » Write that name down.
[1:07:50] » Yeah. Colette, could you uh hand us a
[1:07:52] copy of your email address or a card or
[1:07:54] anything before you head out tonight?
[1:07:57] » All right. Is there anyone else? Last
[1:07:59] call for comments.
[1:08:01] » All right. Uh, moving on.
[1:08:04] Leadership committees. Uh, legislation.
[1:08:07] Uh, Kelly, do you want to walk us
[1:08:09] through
[1:08:11] » 166 and 112?
[1:08:12] » Yeah. Uh, first of all, 166 is on first,
[1:08:15] so we'll we'll go through that first.
[1:08:17] But, uh, just, uh, 112 is basically
[1:08:21] unchanged from last summer. I forget
[1:08:24] which one to look back on it. I forgot.
[1:08:26] but uh was quote unquote reviewed and
[1:08:29] given the stamp of approval by council
[1:08:31] even though we never went forward with
[1:08:33] it because 112 and 166 are tied together
[1:08:36] and when we worked on both of them there
[1:08:38] were pieces we took out of 112 and moved
[1:08:40] to 166 and vice versa so you can't
[1:08:43] really approve one without the other
[1:08:44] » Right
[1:08:45] » Uh anyways uh in your packet you have
[1:08:48] 166 which has been oh god is this two
[1:08:53] years Paul
[1:08:56] for me at least two years of working on
[1:08:59] 166 and a lot of change in there. Um
[1:09:04] that was should I say previous to this
[1:09:07] but um the highlights in red
[1:09:10] specifically are the newest additions
[1:09:13] deal with parking
[1:09:16] um deal with the slumlord uh definition
[1:09:20] and how we handle slumlords in town. and
[1:09:22] it has been also reviewed sent to our
[1:09:26] solicitor and he sent us his uh his
[1:09:29] feedback and comments on things that he
[1:09:31] that needed to be put in there as far as
[1:09:34] disruptive conduct and other items like
[1:09:36] that. So um
[1:09:40] at this time I just say if if council
[1:09:43] has any specific I'm hoping every time
[1:09:46] to read it. That's why we sent you
[1:09:47] plenty of time. It is very lengthy. It's
[1:09:49] very comprehensive. It is the it is the
[1:09:52] cornerstone of our to me at least it is
[1:09:56] the cornerstone ordinance of our uh
[1:10:00] of our of our codes. It's chapter 166 is
[1:10:04] rental property. So uh there's lead safe
[1:10:07] lead it deals with lead safe. Um all the
[1:10:10] definitions in here uh from
[1:10:16] » Yeah, we've added a few
[1:10:19] » Um in the packet. The first document is
[1:10:23] the existing ordinance.
[1:10:25] » Um and then the second is what we're
[1:10:28] proposing to change it to.
[1:10:33] Um, and
[1:10:35] if there's no other changes at this
[1:10:39] point, we'll take this and actually put
[1:10:42] it into the ordinance that we will be
[1:10:45] adopting. Um,
[1:10:47] » Because we really only have to put in
[1:10:48] there the stuff that's changing, the
[1:10:51] stuff that's being added and deleted. Um
[1:10:55] and then we would bring that back to
[1:10:57] authorize to advertise
[1:11:02] » On the um required off streetet parking.
[1:11:05] Um and then on the all owner occupied
[1:11:08] single residential properties which are
[1:11:11] converted into a residential unit must
[1:11:14] provide two off streetet parking spaces
[1:11:17] on the promise. Okay. Somewhere else I
[1:11:20] read, I'm just not seeing it right now,
[1:11:22] that those two parking places had to be
[1:11:26] in the same
[1:11:28] on the premise in the same lot that the
[1:11:32] ADU was in.
[1:11:34] » Oh, yeah. That's at the top of the next
[1:11:35] page. ADU is also required, too.
[1:11:37] » Yeah. And and I don't understand like if
[1:11:41] they a parking place down around the
[1:11:45] corner,
[1:11:47] can't they park there? or the guy owns
[1:11:49] another property the parking place is in
[1:11:51] it
[1:11:53] park there instead of
[1:11:54] » Who keeps track of that as far as
[1:11:56] enforcement you know thing become an
[1:11:58] enforcement nightmare for you you're
[1:12:00] you're expecting our police our codes
[1:12:02] our parking enforcement to go around and
[1:12:04] then you say oh oh that car belongs
[1:12:06] property so it's okay that one belongs
[1:12:08] property that's the problem we had a
[1:12:10] nightmare said that's the problem we had
[1:12:13] go I can tell you right now there are
[1:12:18] properties that came to zoning
[1:12:22] and their parking requirements.
[1:12:25] They said, "Oh, we don't have them on
[1:12:27] premise, but we are renting parking from
[1:12:31] XYZ business." After a while, when you
[1:12:34] can attend enough zoning meetings, you
[1:12:37] find that they probably leased
[1:12:42] parking for twice as many parking spaces
[1:12:45] as that the business had.
[1:12:48] » Yeah.
[1:12:48] » So, and we had no way to keep track of
[1:12:50] that. And they could have said, we had
[1:12:52] this happen. I'm going to rent two
[1:12:55] parking spaces from the person down the
[1:12:58] street here.
[1:13:00] They could have made one month payment,
[1:13:02] never paid again if we don't have no
[1:13:04] record there. So, we can't control that
[1:13:06] off street parking unless it's on the
[1:13:08] premise.
[1:13:11] I'll say that uh after reviewing this
[1:13:13] and looking into the since the last time
[1:13:15] we discussed this about two months ago,
[1:13:17] um I've spent a good amount of time
[1:13:19] trying to learn about parking issues.
[1:13:22] Um, I went through five different PDFs
[1:13:25] that uh somebody from the county sent me
[1:13:28] um and attended the PSAD training on
[1:13:30] parking. I will say that personally I do
[1:13:34] not I don't believe that we should
[1:13:36] include that parking minimum um that
[1:13:39] that requirement uh as part of this um
[1:13:43] mostly because every resource that I
[1:13:46] have found from the county and from
[1:13:48] other locations outside of Pennsylvania
[1:13:50] and Lancaster all suggest to either
[1:13:55] reduce or entirely cut minimum parking
[1:13:58] requirements. Um, in some cases, and
[1:14:01] this document from the county says that
[1:14:03] instead we should be adopting uh a
[1:14:06] maximum parking space limit rather than
[1:14:09] requiring minimums. Basically, the idea
[1:14:12] being with the shortage in housing. Um,
[1:14:16] the space can be either better utilized
[1:14:20] for more housing or leave it up to the
[1:14:21] developer to make that decision rather
[1:14:24] than us saying we need to have this
[1:14:26] minimum. So a after reading through the
[1:14:30] document, I love all the stuff with the
[1:14:32] uh the slumber ordinance and all those
[1:14:34] definitions, but I don't think that we
[1:14:37] should include that parking minimum.
[1:14:40] » If you didn't do that, you could not
[1:14:42] park in.
[1:14:43] » Yeah.
[1:14:45] » That many vehicles on the streets, you
[1:14:48] could not park anywhere near your res.
[1:14:50] » I'm just being honest with you. in 14
[1:14:53] and a half years.
[1:14:55] One of the most common threads every
[1:14:58] year, every week is people complaining
[1:15:03] about I never have any place to park and
[1:15:06] you know my neighborhoods, you know,
[1:15:07] there's row homes and there's personal
[1:15:09] and they're entitled to it. They have a
[1:15:11] row home and they have four cars for one
[1:15:14] row. Where would I put them? They put
[1:15:16] them on the street because they're
[1:15:16] entitled to obviously. Where am I
[1:15:18] supposed to park? I built forest parking
[1:15:21] spaces on the back of my property just
[1:15:22] so I had a I didn't have to just so I
[1:15:24] had a place to put my cars and have a
[1:15:26] place to go. I mean, and I I'm fortunate
[1:15:29] to have that. But there's other people
[1:15:30] that don't have it. So, if we don't I
[1:15:33] know what you're saying about other
[1:15:34] areas, but Colombia I mean, when it
[1:15:36] comes to parking, Columbia is a
[1:15:37] different bird. I mean really I mean
[1:15:40] it's it's a it's very you see the
[1:15:43] housing is so compact
[1:15:45] » And you know that's one of the reasons
[1:15:46] why I voted against you know everyone
[1:15:49] said well you were voting against a
[1:15:51] certificate of appropriateness. I voted
[1:15:53] no because I didn't feel it was
[1:15:54] appropriate to rebuild a home in an
[1:15:56] alleyway when to me the alleyways should
[1:15:58] be cleaned out and be used for parking
[1:16:02] to [laughter] you know wherever wherever
[1:16:03] possible to ease some of this
[1:16:04] congestion. It's the housing in Columbia
[1:16:07] is so densely packed and so I mean it
[1:16:10] it's unless you build up, you know.
[1:16:13] » Yeah, I I totally understand that and a
[1:16:15] lot of the stuff that it talks about
[1:16:17] here are the longer term effects of
[1:16:20] having these parking minimums. Um, so I
[1:16:24] understand that it's not a perfect
[1:16:27] solution, but also the I think the
[1:16:29] longest term solution is to make do what
[1:16:32] we can to make Columbia more walkable
[1:16:34] and have things that way people don't
[1:16:37] need to have a car um at all. But I I
[1:16:42] just do I Yeah, I just have some
[1:16:46] concerns about it uh being the two
[1:16:49] parking minimum. um even if we like
[1:16:53] dropped it to one um still had a parking
[1:16:56] minimum. I've seen other places instead
[1:16:58] change it to uh the number of bedrooms
[1:17:01] rather than the entire number of units
[1:17:03] um because
[1:17:05] » It changes from it changes from owner to
[1:17:07] owner. You know what I mean? So you have
[1:17:08] » It was at one for years. Yeah,
[1:17:10] » It was the low parking issue
[1:17:14] » And a lot of those municipalities that
[1:17:16] are suggesting that they cut back um
[1:17:19] have parking garages, structures that
[1:17:22] parking lots.
[1:17:27] Well,
[1:17:28] » Yeah.
[1:17:29] » So, there's people in this room, they
[1:17:30] know that
[1:17:31] » 10 years ago when I was on council, I
[1:17:32] was president council, we were actively
[1:17:35] pursuing a downtown parking garage and
[1:17:39] basically that laughed at, oh, you need
[1:17:42] that. Now, everybody's like, where is
[1:17:44] the parking garage?
[1:17:45] » That's how it changes in not even 10
[1:17:47] years. And and I see this as one of
[1:17:49] those times where we are actually
[1:17:52] listening to our public, listening to
[1:17:55] our residents, telling us that parking
[1:17:59] is an issue and the people that are
[1:18:02] coming in and renting and have five
[1:18:06] cars,
[1:18:08] you need to have regulations on that so
[1:18:11] that they're not parking all five of
[1:18:12] those on the street. Um, so that's the
[1:18:16] way I see it.
[1:18:18] is this is
[1:18:20] » Something we've been asked for.
[1:18:21] » I understand. I just usually the data
[1:18:23] shows kind of the opposite where people
[1:18:26] who are renters usually either will only
[1:18:28] have one car per unit or sometimes no
[1:18:30] car at all. And so I just
[1:18:34] well, you know, it is what it is. If it
[1:18:37] if it was a thing where neighbors were
[1:18:39] nice to each other, you know, how you
[1:18:41] like to be that guy that works four to
[1:18:42] midnight every day and comes home
[1:18:44] midnight and can't find one parking
[1:18:46] space three blocks to his house and it's
[1:18:49] raining or it's snowing. That's total
[1:18:51] crap. You know, he should be entitled to
[1:18:53] park near his house. And that really is
[1:18:56] what I think this addresses for me at
[1:18:59] least. Anyway, I mean, I went through
[1:19:00] when I my first home I bought was in
[1:19:03] when I was in my 20s. My first home was
[1:19:04] in the city of Reading. Huh. little
[1:19:06] luck. [laughter] You know what I mean?
[1:19:08] Drive around in circles. Oh, somebody's
[1:19:09] pulling out. Zip up there. Put it in
[1:19:11] there. If you were left and I don't want
[1:19:13] people I mean that's it's not a good
[1:19:16] situation. I mean there's no there's no
[1:19:19] golden spoon here with parking. Really
[1:19:22] just trying to find a a middle ground
[1:19:24] that you can live with. Well, I think
[1:19:26] some of the data if you're living in a
[1:19:30] an apartment
[1:19:35] chances that there is a chance you won't
[1:19:37] have a vehicle. Yeah. But what it really
[1:19:42] puts the problem on us is the single
[1:19:44] family rental.
[1:19:47] You got a 14t wide house and three 22
[1:19:50] foot cars. It don't compute.
[1:19:54] And they don't have to just
[1:19:57] » Sorry. And and the people that are
[1:20:01] renting the single family home are not
[1:20:03] the ones that aren't.
[1:20:07] » Well, I wanted to bring it up that
[1:20:08] that's a concern that I currently have.
[1:20:10] » No, I appreciate that.
[1:20:11] » Chair, you wanted to be
[1:20:13] » Yeah.
[1:20:15] » Yeah.
[1:20:16] » I find
[1:20:19] » I know if you so or not. I find myself
[1:20:22] agreeing with Kelly outside of the um
[1:20:24] parking garage. Um we have adequate what
[1:20:29] I'll call adequate parking on our block
[1:20:32] and it has been comfortable for the
[1:20:34] nearly 10 years that I've been on that
[1:20:36] particular block. Um but recently we
[1:20:39] have cars parking there routinely
[1:20:42] leaving them all day sometimes overnight
[1:20:45] um [clears throat] you know long periods
[1:20:47] of time that actually are on the
[1:20:50] opposite street. They're they're
[1:20:53] utilizing now our part and it makes it
[1:20:57] tight for us when we come back and we
[1:20:59] don't know where we're going to go. U so
[1:21:02] I would encourage you I'm sorry Ethan
[1:21:04] but not to do anything. So [laughter]
[1:21:06] that's okay. or suggested because it I
[1:21:09] think the parking actually is just
[1:21:12] getting worse in our area and there's a
[1:21:14] recent home that sold where the woman
[1:21:17] lived there alone with one vehicle. Now
[1:21:20] a family moved in and I see two vehicles
[1:21:23] and a work truck. So, you know, now
[1:21:26] that's a new story and the people in our
[1:21:28] block are getting older. So when they
[1:21:30] sell, it's going to be, you know,
[1:21:33] certainly families coming in, not one
[1:21:36] vehicle parked there anymore. So thank
[1:21:38] you.
[1:21:38] » I'm sure they love that one way, too.
[1:21:40] » Yeah.
[1:21:40] » Makes it easy to get in out.
[1:21:48] » Now it's my turn to get dumped on.
[1:21:51] [laughter]
[1:21:52] » I like you.
[1:21:55] No, I I feel
[1:21:58] another way to look at this is we're
[1:22:00] strictly looking at rental properties
[1:22:03] here. Not looking at residential,
[1:22:07] but with rental properties,
[1:22:10] a single family home being rented with
[1:22:14] three and four cars. We've got a couple
[1:22:17] of them on our block. If I didn't have a
[1:22:18] garage, I'd have no place to park.
[1:22:22] And it's been like that for years
[1:22:23] because across the street is a three
[1:22:25] unit that has six cars there or seven
[1:22:28] cars and no off streetet parking. The
[1:22:30] other thing I'm looking at is once this
[1:22:34] is put into effect that a single family
[1:22:38] rental property needs on premises
[1:22:42] parking.
[1:22:44] How many places in Colombia can you do
[1:22:47] that?
[1:22:48] Is this going to help
[1:22:52] cut down on the number of single family
[1:22:56] properties
[1:22:57] being converted into rental housing?
[1:23:01] » It's going to
[1:23:02] » That that is a home ownership for young
[1:23:06] families.
[1:23:06] » When I saw that, I thought like on my
[1:23:09] block I'm thinking we've got a private
[1:23:11] alley in back of our place.
[1:23:15] But
[1:23:17] » There's no way you're It's a grass alley
[1:23:21] and we've got a rental property two
[1:23:23] houses in from Sixth Street
[1:23:27] and there's
[1:23:29] there's no on premises parking there.
[1:23:32] And I know it's going to help that also
[1:23:35] if you push for the single family rental
[1:23:39] on premises.
[1:23:49] Hi, my name is Moises Hernandez.
[1:23:52] I am a little curious on how this
[1:23:55] regulation would it be conflicting any
[1:23:57] way with if there's a I'm not sure if
[1:23:59] there's a rule on how far from the
[1:24:01] corner a car has to be. Like when I'm
[1:24:03] driving around and I'm going through
[1:24:04] alleys, there are cars parked almost
[1:24:06] into the alley. There are cars that
[1:24:08] almost block my driveway. And that is
[1:24:10] the biggest issue for me because now I
[1:24:12] can't see my left or my right.
[1:24:15] » So I was wondering if we're doing
[1:24:16] assigned parking in that in a certain
[1:24:18] sense would we be able to enforce that
[1:24:20] corner rule more or would there be like
[1:24:23] some sort of conflict of interest
[1:24:24] there's there's state statute
[1:24:27] » State statute dictates how far you can
[1:24:29] be from a stop sign or a corner curb
[1:24:31] anything like that.
[1:24:34] So the uh police officers uh have
[1:24:37] mandate from the state and are allowed
[1:24:38] to enforce uh any obstructions or
[1:24:40] anything that is a violation. So
[1:24:42] » You are correct late at night. You drive
[1:24:45] come home and I went how the heck would
[1:24:48] you let somebody use a crossbow?
[1:24:50] » Yeah, I've had that. I drive out at
[1:24:52] night. I work at night as well and
[1:24:54] there's a car parked there. It's black.
[1:24:55] I can't see. Turns out there's another
[1:24:56] car coming in. I almost have an accident
[1:24:58] because either they don't have the
[1:24:59] lights on, I can't see them or it's
[1:25:02] blocked. Is there a specific department
[1:25:04] I should contact for those kind of cars
[1:25:06] in that corner?
[1:25:08] » Just a blue. Now, interestingly, you
[1:25:10] bring that up. Uh the PSAB thing that I
[1:25:13] mentioned earlier did actually have a
[1:25:15] section on this about ways that while it
[1:25:18] is, you know, generally it's just sort
[1:25:20] of painted on the curb and there's an
[1:25:22] opening. Um there were a lot of
[1:25:24] encouragements of alternative ways to
[1:25:26] sort of block off that those sections um
[1:25:30] to literally make it impossible for
[1:25:33] somebody to block in in that area. Um
[1:25:36] and I think it's definitely something
[1:25:38] that we could consider doing at the very
[1:25:41] least trying it in a few intersections
[1:25:42] in Colombia and then seeing how that
[1:25:44] affects traffic and parking and
[1:25:46] everything else and then potentially do
[1:25:48] more of that depending on the cost. Um
[1:25:50] it is something I did want to get a
[1:25:52] chance to bring up but haven't had the
[1:25:53] opportunity. Um but yeah it's yeah
[1:25:56] something we can totally look at more
[1:25:58] popular.
[1:26:00] » Yeah
[1:26:01] but the problem is it's expensive way
[1:26:03] expensive.
[1:26:04] » Yeah
[1:26:06] our
[1:26:08] public works manager and I talked the
[1:26:10] other day he had matter of fact we did
[1:26:13] some already. They're painting the all
[1:26:16] lines. They're not painting the all
[1:26:18] lines and and the officers will site
[1:26:23] because of the parking situation like
[1:26:25] this in town. Sometimes
[1:26:28] you don't get to see it or if it if if
[1:26:31] it looks like in the officer's mind, if
[1:26:34] it looks like it could cause an
[1:26:36] accident, there's not enough sight, they
[1:26:39] will sight. But because parking is so
[1:26:42] tough, sometimes
[1:26:44] if it's little close to what the
[1:26:47] allocation is, it might let it go and I
[1:26:50] and I can understand that and I won't
[1:26:52] call them for it, but they know if it's
[1:26:54] safe unsafe, they're going to
[1:26:56] » Okay.
[1:26:57] » Yeah. I saw in Lester City there's like
[1:26:59] a big curb up with a garden in it.
[1:27:02] » I don't know if that'll work here, but
[1:27:03] » Well, we call them bump outs, but yeah.
[1:27:05] » Yeah, we have some of those on South or
[1:27:08] South Street. And there are versions
[1:27:10] that you can do without having to create
[1:27:12] a full concrete setup. Like an example I
[1:27:15] have here is literally just some white
[1:27:16] poles um that outline that shape um to
[1:27:20] prevent people from being able to pull
[1:27:21] in there. Okay.
[1:27:22] » Um but yeah, we can absolutely talk
[1:27:25] about that more and try to get something
[1:27:27] together.
[1:27:27] » Yeah, I really appreciate it. Like that
[1:27:29] in combination with the cats like I'm
[1:27:30] trying not to hit a cat and then there's
[1:27:32] also that lot of things. [clears throat]
[1:27:34] Thank you so much.
[1:27:35] » Thanks. But one of the nice one of the
[1:27:37] nice things about the curve bump house
[1:27:39] when you do that it decreases it the
[1:27:42] distance that pedestrians have to go
[1:27:45] across the park.
[1:27:48] » So instead of 30 feet across they may
[1:27:50] only have 24 feet on the road to go
[1:27:54] » And it helps slow people down.
[1:27:56] » Absolutely.
[1:27:58] » That's
[1:28:01] thank you for bringing that up.
[1:28:02] » Yeah, you made a good point. It it
[1:28:04] definitely slows them down. Yeah,
[1:28:05] definitely seen it.
[1:28:06] » Yeah, I've seen more.
[1:28:11] » That's exactly right. Yeah, that's where
[1:28:13] there's a lot of cats that go there.
[1:28:15] [laughter]
[1:28:16] » Mary and I had some good conversations
[1:28:18] about
[1:28:20] [laughter]
[1:28:21] » I thought you said all your neighbors
[1:28:22] were feeding the cats.
[1:28:23] » Yeah. So, Mary is out there. Mary's out
[1:28:26] there in the neighborhood. [laughter]
[1:28:33] » Oh, gotcha. Okay.
[1:28:36] » Yeah. I mean,
[1:28:37] » So she's out on Sixth Street asking them
[1:28:39] to come to council to complain about
[1:28:41] » And then she's calling the kids on the
[1:28:42] bikes to go around to start your life.
[1:28:45] [laughter]
[1:28:45] » Thank you so much.
[1:28:46] » We got it. We got it.
[1:28:48] » I I wish there was, you know, we talked
[1:28:50] about this off and on over here. It's
[1:28:52] never been popular and I and I wish it
[1:28:55] would put a hell of a burden on Chief's
[1:28:56] department, but really it would be
[1:28:58] awesome if we could mark off parking
[1:29:01] spaces with white painted lines, too.
[1:29:03] I'm just being honest with you. There
[1:29:06] are a good number of people in this town
[1:29:07] that can't parallel park to save their
[1:29:10] life. You know, five feet in front of
[1:29:12] the car, five foot back and there goes a
[1:29:16] space. You know what's funny? You know
[1:29:18] what's funny?
[1:29:27] » I'll tell you something that's funny
[1:29:28] about that. We had Derek do a study on
[1:29:32] 8th Street, South A Street
[1:29:34] [clears throat]
[1:29:35] » And and then he did Perry too and found
[1:29:38] out with the lines we would have less
[1:29:41] parking than without the lines
[1:29:45] » Because when you got a smaller vehicle
[1:29:49] » The issue is bad parking behavior, not
[1:29:52] necessarily
[1:29:53] » Not that's the issue. And when you have
[1:29:56] good parking behavior like on South 8th
[1:29:59] Street where they were actually parked
[1:30:03] one after the other,
[1:30:05] » You would lose spaces. Whereas somewhere
[1:30:07] like the 800 block of Locust Street
[1:30:11] where you may not have all those, but
[1:30:14] you have bad parking behavior because
[1:30:16] people are leaving these ginormous space
[1:30:19] between the things.
[1:30:21] » That's because they can't. It's not It's
[1:30:23] not always their fault that either
[1:30:25] because that one person comes in and
[1:30:27] starts the parking for everybody else.
[1:30:29] Then you leave, someone's there and
[1:30:31] looks like, "Oh, you're taking up two
[1:30:32] spaces." When it was the person in front
[1:30:34] of you, it gets all messed up.
[1:30:36] » Right.
[1:30:37] » I like the line.
[1:30:40] » Yeah.
[1:30:43] » All right. [clears throat] Anything else
[1:30:44] on the uh rental? Yes.
[1:30:52] I debated bringing this up, but is there
[1:30:55] anything in the ordinance that covers
[1:30:57] travel trailers,
[1:30:59] travel trailers, plus house trailers?
[1:31:04] And I'll give you an example, a place
[1:31:06] where I know there's numerous
[1:31:08] violations.
[1:31:10] I just seen them clear a spot and it's a
[1:31:12] little bigger than a travel trailer, but
[1:31:14] it probably is a travel trailer. set it
[1:31:17] up, put an awning out, have their
[1:31:20] morning coffee and all that.
[1:31:23] » Um,
[1:31:27] » But anyway, is there anything in the
[1:31:28] ordinance that covers this?
[1:31:30] » Not in this ordinance. No,
[1:31:33] » There is
[1:31:34] » Not this ordinance, but
[1:31:35] » Not this particular. Yeah, it's another
[1:31:37] one that we're working on. They have to
[1:31:39] get these.
[1:31:39] » If you have a trailer,
[1:31:42] » It's unhooked.
[1:31:43] » It's
[1:31:44] » Yes, we unhook. There's a length of time
[1:31:47] I put in the chief.
[1:31:49] » Four hours. It has to be moved.
[1:31:51] » Oh my god.
[1:31:53] » We got all kind of violations.
[1:31:57] » Is there anything that says they can't
[1:31:59] park the trailer in front of their
[1:32:01] property? We see that at different
[1:32:04] places. And it
[1:32:06] » Probably not in this.
[1:32:07] » No, there's nothing in there. But
[1:32:10] honestly, there's in my block there's
[1:32:13] someone living in a travel trailer in
[1:32:14] the alley.
[1:32:16] So, what do we do about that?
[1:32:18] » Yeah, that you pointed out. I went and
[1:32:19] checked it out. They have like torches.
[1:32:25] » If the trailer is on a property and not
[1:32:27] on the road, does that mean it's qual it
[1:32:29] qualifies at the ADU in the definition
[1:32:32] for this rental property?
[1:32:38] » Because I mean like if it's not on the
[1:32:39] property,
[1:32:40] » If like Yeah. Like if in this case like
[1:32:42] they pull the trailer into the backyard
[1:32:43] or something and somebody is living out
[1:32:45] of it, wouldn't that be an ADU under
[1:32:48] this definition?
[1:32:49] » I would agree with you.
[1:32:52] » They're living in it. They're living.
[1:32:54] » Yes.
[1:32:54] » Yeah. A self-contained smaller
[1:32:56] residential unit located on the same lot
[1:32:58] as a primary single family. So in that
[1:33:01] case, it could qualify as an ADU.
[1:33:04] Actually, no. They do not
[1:33:06] » Because they do not have water.
[1:33:10] » Water.
[1:33:11] » Okay.
[1:33:13] They're not hooked up to each other.
[1:33:14] Gotcha.
[1:33:14] » They're not hooked up to each other.
[1:33:15] » They require We should get that that
[1:33:17] definition then is include that they
[1:33:20] need to be hooked up to for the ADU
[1:33:22] definition.
[1:33:23] » Yeah.
[1:33:24] » So, so that's allowed them. They're
[1:33:26] allowed to live in that as long as they
[1:33:28] want. No restrictions.
[1:33:30] » No.
[1:33:31] » No. We currently don't have anything for
[1:33:34] an ADU.
[1:33:34] » Wow.
[1:33:35] » This is putting in
[1:33:36] » That could be increasing with the way
[1:33:39] housing is.
[1:33:40] » I just seen this one go up and I just
[1:33:42] thought with all the other violations
[1:33:44] there now here's another rental.
[1:33:47] » Yeah, I see trailers.
[1:33:49] » Yeah, a lot of
[1:33:57] street
[1:34:00] » I know. It's it's not just that. It's
[1:34:02] work trucks too. People having you know
[1:34:06] so you work Monday to Friday for you
[1:34:08] know for left and then Saturday to
[1:34:11] Sunday you don't truck sitting there all
[1:34:13] weekend unmoved. You see them all the
[1:34:15] time. I get calls all the time.
[1:34:17] » Guys been sitting all the time and I'll
[1:34:18] call down see what they do.
[1:34:20] » I know. I push for I push to have that
[1:34:22] added in our thing
[1:34:25] » Many times and I
[1:34:28] so because I completely agree that work
[1:34:32] trucks should have be parked
[1:34:35] » In a block that is not you know
[1:34:37] » Should be on the street they should be
[1:34:39] » In a lot somewhere where their lease is
[1:34:40] based for their work truck.
[1:34:47] » All right. We can we can make that um we
[1:34:50] can make that addition to the ADU.
[1:34:53] » Yeah.
[1:34:54] » Yeah.
[1:34:55] » And if there's [clears throat] no other
[1:35:00] suggestions or anything, we can press
[1:35:02] that ordinance
[1:35:04] or be
[1:35:07] advertised at a upcoming meeting.
[1:35:14] Kelly, would you be able to prep that
[1:35:16] ordinance?
[1:35:17] Yep.
[1:35:18] » Okay. Thank you. I I'm like
[1:35:21] » Super busy right now. I with the wedding
[1:35:24] coming up and you know
[1:35:26] » Yeah. I think my yard's in good shape
[1:35:27] now. I think my wife will come over.
[1:35:29] » If you got your yard in good shape, I I
[1:35:31] got the wedding. So, [laughter]
[1:35:35] » No, I'm not getting married. My daughter
[1:35:36] is next weekend and it's driving me I'm
[1:35:39] like going crazy.
[1:35:42] » Yeah. No, I'm not getting married.
[1:35:44] » Been there bought a shirt. I'm not doing
[1:35:46] it again. [laughter]
[1:35:53] » Yeah, my name is not changing, right?
[1:35:57] » All right. Um,
[1:35:59] while we're on the legislation,
[1:36:02] I wanted to I wanted to uh bring
[1:36:05] something up.
[1:36:07] I would like to
[1:36:11] um ask
[1:36:14] council to consider
[1:36:17] I mean we would do this at the next at
[1:36:19] the next meeting um but I would like to
[1:36:21] ask council to consider um doing
[1:36:25] something or you know directing staff to
[1:36:29] send letters of feedback to our
[1:36:33] representative and our senator.
[1:36:37] to oppose some legislation
[1:36:40] that is currently going through
[1:36:44] um the state legislature.
[1:36:47] House Bill 2155.
[1:36:50] This has passed the House
[1:36:54] and it is headed to the Senate and it
[1:36:57] would
[1:36:58] it would prohibit minimum parking
[1:37:01] requirements for any use
[1:37:05] in the zoning.
[1:37:08] Um, also Senate Bill 1239,
[1:37:13] it's called the cutting red tape to
[1:37:15] expand housing options. It grants
[1:37:18] automatic approval for certain
[1:37:20] developments.
[1:37:21] It eliminates minimum and maximum
[1:37:24] densities,
[1:37:25] height restrictions, and excessive
[1:37:29] setbacks on lot size or lot coverage
[1:37:33] mandates.
[1:37:36] Both of these
[1:37:39] are just two. These are the two that are
[1:37:42] the closest to passing, but these are
[1:37:45] two of a host of
[1:37:48] current legislations that are meant to
[1:37:52] basically strip local municipalities
[1:37:56] of their zoning
[1:37:59] ability.
[1:38:01] when Leo s sat here and said the state
[1:38:04] doesn't want to wasn't doesn't want to
[1:38:06] make
[1:38:08] make u legislation they want them they
[1:38:11] want the individual municipalities to do
[1:38:13] it that's the case for data centers but
[1:38:16] when it comes to other things they are
[1:38:18] when it comes to zoning they are
[1:38:20] actively working to strip local
[1:38:23] municipalities ability
[1:38:26] to control their own zoning and I would
[1:38:29] like us to consider
[1:38:32] directing staff to write letters to our
[1:38:37] senator and our representative urging
[1:38:40] them to oppose any legislation that
[1:38:43] would strip zoning rights from the
[1:38:46] municipality. Local officials know their
[1:38:50] communities and they have the right to
[1:38:53] set their zoning standards to dictate
[1:38:56] what is best for their community. We
[1:38:58] should not be told by Harrisburg that we
[1:39:01] we we have to accept any development
[1:39:04] that comes our way. We should not be
[1:39:07] told that we can't tell people uh we
[1:39:10] can't set a maximum density. That means
[1:39:13] we could have a high-rise all over
[1:39:16] Colombia and we would not be able to say
[1:39:18] anything about it. And if they strip out
[1:39:21] the minimum minimum parking
[1:39:24] requirements, we wouldn't even be
[1:39:25] require we wouldn't even be able to
[1:39:27] require a high-rise apartment building
[1:39:30] to have parking at all. So I I think
[1:39:33] it's just they're they're not they're
[1:39:36] not willing to step in on a data center
[1:39:38] issue, but yet on a zoning issue,
[1:39:41] they're willing to completely strip all
[1:39:44] ability from the local municipalities.
[1:39:47] So there's my soap box. Um,
[1:39:51] » We go again. And the primary goal is to
[1:39:53] increase density.
[1:39:55] » Their primary goal is to increase
[1:39:57] density to build as much housing as
[1:40:00] possible without regard to how that's
[1:40:02] going to affect everyone
[1:40:04] » Or impact the school district
[1:40:05] » Or impact the school district and
[1:40:07] everything else.
[1:40:09] » So, how does that process of directing
[1:40:11] staff work? Is that just a
[1:40:13] » It's just we would just vote um to say
[1:40:17] we would like staff to do that and Jack
[1:40:19] would craft the letter and send it to um
[1:40:22] Malone and Miller saying that Colombia
[1:40:26] Burough as a burrow urges them to vote
[1:40:29] no on any legislation that would preempt
[1:40:33] um local zoning
[1:40:35] control.
[1:40:39] So, if everyone is okay with that, I'll
[1:40:42] have that put on the next put up for a
[1:40:45] vote for next week. Put that on the
[1:40:48] » And you can do that on your own, too.
[1:40:50] » And yes, and we each individually can do
[1:40:52] it as well, but I would like it. I am
[1:40:55] asking that this come from the burrow
[1:40:58] because I tend to think that holds more
[1:41:01] weight with our
[1:41:04] representatives
[1:41:06] when we do it as a group. Yes,
[1:41:15] this is Moises again. Would constituents
[1:41:18] also be able to provide their own letter
[1:41:19] to you and you can send them all
[1:41:21] together to the office?
[1:41:23] » Yes. and or you can contact them as
[1:41:25] well. Um, that's always that's always
[1:41:29] nice when when constituents are
[1:41:31] contacting them outside of the
[1:41:33] municipality because it it shows them
[1:41:35] that
[1:41:37] individuals are paying attention, not
[1:41:39] just, you know, not just council
[1:41:42] members. Truth and matter is
[1:41:46] they will look at what a resident
[1:41:51] sends them with more favor than what
[1:41:55] council will send.
[1:41:57] » That's what I was wondering. So
[1:41:59] » You have more weight than what we do.
[1:42:02] » Okay, perfect.
[1:42:04] » Thank you so much.
[1:42:05] » Thanks.
[1:42:08] » Yes.
[1:42:11] bill.
[1:42:13] Uh,
[1:42:15] » One of them was House Bill 2155.
[1:42:18] I didn't get the
[1:42:19] » Senate 1239 is the cutting red tape to
[1:42:24] expand housing options.
[1:42:27] It grants automatic approval for certain
[1:42:30] developments.
[1:42:31] And it eliminates the minimum and
[1:42:34] maximum densities,
[1:42:36] pipe restrictions, excessive setbacks,
[1:42:39] and lot size or lot coverage mandates.
[1:42:42] So, it pretty much says
[1:42:45] anything goes anywhere and the
[1:42:48] municipality cannot do anything about
[1:42:50] it.
[1:42:51] » It basically guts your comp plan in your
[1:42:53] zoom.
[1:42:53] » It does. And it it basically guts. I
[1:42:56] mean it it it cuts your [laughter] it it
[1:42:59] just cuts the cell though and that's the
[1:43:02] state law anyway. Exactly. It's
[1:43:05] » Any
[1:43:19] I just wanted to say that I think
[1:43:22] Colombia is way too small. I don't think
[1:43:25] people consider how small we are here.
[1:43:28] And if we keep building, it's not that I
[1:43:31] don't understand the need for housing. I
[1:43:34] do, but this is not the place to keep
[1:43:36] building up and making it more and more.
[1:43:39] It's all
[1:43:40] » I know.
[1:43:41] » Just don't see that that's the right way
[1:43:43] to go. Thank
[1:43:44] » That's what the legislature is trying to
[1:43:46] do.
[1:43:50] Um, before we move on to legislation,
[1:43:53] um, I did want to ask if we could take a
[1:43:57] look at amending the zoning, the way the
[1:44:00] zoning is currently set up for data
[1:44:02] centers. Currently, it's permitted by
[1:44:04] Wright in both uh, light business and
[1:44:08] light industrial and general industrial.
[1:44:11] I I assume the GI stands for. Okay. Um,
[1:44:16] a lot of the suggestions I've read
[1:44:18] include from the county suggest having
[1:44:20] it [clears throat] be a special
[1:44:22] exception
[1:44:23] um, in in places like considering like
[1:44:27] business rather than permitted by
[1:44:29] rights. So, it does have to go before a
[1:44:32] vote. Um, so I would like us to consider
[1:44:35] amending the zoning to have data centers
[1:44:37] be special exceptions and like business
[1:44:39] rather than permitted by rights.
[1:44:50] Shoot.
[1:44:53] I missed a few others.
[1:44:55] Bills that are preemptive.
[1:44:58] Um, you'll like this one, Mary. House
[1:45:01] Bill 1459
[1:45:03] is requiring zoning ordinances to be
[1:45:06] revised to allow multifamily housing in
[1:45:10] urban areas. zone for office and retail.
[1:45:16] House Bill 2186
[1:45:20] makes ADUs permitted by right in every
[1:45:23] zoning district.
[1:45:25] House Bill 21109
[1:45:28] known as the Golden Girls Law. It
[1:45:31] legalizes shared living arrangements.
[1:45:34] And House Bill 2303
[1:45:38] um stipulates that the county,
[1:45:42] not the local municipality, but on a
[1:45:44] county level, needs to regulate
[1:45:47] short-term rentals,
[1:45:51] House Bill 2303.
[1:45:54] So there is, as I said, there is a a
[1:45:56] whole bunch of preemptive um
[1:46:00] [clears throat] legislation out there
[1:46:02] that I think we should just say, please
[1:46:05] oppose all
[1:46:07] preeemption.
[1:46:13] » Yes, they do.
[1:46:20] » True.
[1:46:20] » Yep.
[1:46:23] All right. Anything else on legislation?
[1:46:27] Nope. All right. Um,
[1:46:32] finance in your packet. You have the
[1:46:34] finance reports.
[1:46:38] There any questions on that? Finance
[1:46:40] reports
[1:46:49] and
[1:47:06] we have the general fund account balance
[1:47:09] as 56.
[1:47:12] Um,
[1:47:14] question.
[1:47:17] Do we know when we will be presenting
[1:47:20] the
[1:47:22] heard?
[1:47:23] » I have not received any updates as yet.
[1:47:28] Uh, you may want to check with them to
[1:47:31] make sure they have received everything.
[1:47:34] I know that the solicitor sometimes
[1:47:37] would hold up our audit because he would
[1:47:40] not questionire.
[1:47:49] Yeah, because it has to be filed by a
[1:47:51] certain
[1:47:55] » Are there any other questions or
[1:47:56] comments on finance
[1:47:59] community development?
[1:48:03] Is that
[1:48:05] » It's Gan
[1:48:08] Community?
[1:48:09] » I don't have anything.
[1:48:13] You are still planning to uh
[1:48:16] have the homeless shelter meeting though
[1:48:18] again. You're going to reschedule that
[1:48:20] at some point.
[1:48:21] » But it's not set.
[1:48:23] » Okay.
[1:48:24] » I'm waiting for the guest. I just called
[1:48:27] it today.
[1:48:28] » You'll advise everybody when that when
[1:48:29] that occurs. Okay.
[1:48:37] » Anything else on that? Uh public works
[1:48:45] report from Jake's. Anything you want to
[1:48:47] touch on, Jake? I mean, obviously
[1:48:49] everybody knows they started on Wall
[1:48:50] Street already, so
[1:49:11] How's the um waste recycling? Yard waste
[1:49:16] recycling coming
[1:49:26] down.
[1:49:40] I will say we have a little setback.
[1:49:42] Could
[1:49:51] have been a lot worse.
[1:50:02] basically stops
[1:50:14] a lot more.
[1:50:24] » Are we able to determine where that came
[1:50:26] from?
[1:50:28] My guess is probably
[1:50:50] » I can't imagine somebody put something
[1:50:52] like that in a yard waste.
[1:51:03] Thanks for sharing that. Unfortunately,
[1:51:06] » Isn't
[1:51:19] that means it's downtime. So when it
[1:51:22] comes back up then they're going to be
[1:51:24] behind on
[1:51:27] shipping and everything else.
[1:51:30] Sure is.
[1:51:41] I don't trim it so I won't attribute to
[1:51:43] the file any longer.
[1:51:45] » Oh yeah.
[1:51:49] » [snorts and laughter]
[1:51:50] » Okay.
[1:51:52] » That'll be your reason for your quick.
[1:51:54] » Yeah. [clears throat]
[1:51:55] » I cannot do it.
[1:51:56] » Yeah.
[1:51:58] My quick ticket because I can't do my
[1:51:59] yard.
[1:52:04] » Yeah.
[1:52:06] » Right.
[1:52:17] » Yeah. I think we we get stuff from about
[1:52:20] half the municipalities in the county at
[1:52:21] this point.
[1:52:26] » All right.
[1:52:27] » Thanks.
[1:52:28] » Anything else on public works?
[1:52:32] » All right. Uh public safety.
[1:52:34] » Um we have received the reports this
[1:52:36] month. Um the only thing we didn't touch
[1:52:38] upon is we do um refer to
[1:52:44] manager Brahmer. We do have a current
[1:52:47] contract from Lifeline that's been
[1:52:49] signed uh into existent uh into
[1:52:52] existence
[1:52:54] um and that is our 10-year contract that
[1:52:58] we talked about um several meetings ago
[1:53:02] with a few changes.
[1:53:07] significant change.
[1:53:10] » When we had this discussion, dealing
[1:53:11] with the discussion was that uh after a
[1:53:14] fiveyear period, we're going to pay a
[1:53:17] per capita
[1:53:18] » Um payment
[1:53:20] to lifeline for their service, but that
[1:53:24] was discussed here.
[1:53:27] Paula, do you have anything on the codes
[1:53:30] report?
[1:53:46] on public safety. Just a little
[1:53:49] interesting piece of information that um
[1:53:52] we learned
[1:53:54] actually yesterday at the conference.
[1:53:59] Pennsylvania
[1:54:01] leads the nation
[1:54:03] in number of civilian fire deaths
[1:54:07] per year.
[1:54:09] Isn't that sad?
[1:54:14] You know, it's it's awful. And
[1:54:17] you know, you think about why and you
[1:54:20] know, it's it's just awful. But yeah, we
[1:54:24] we were kind of shocked to hear that
[1:54:26] from the state department.
[1:54:29] » And one last thing, I would be remiss in
[1:54:31] not thanking American Post 3 American
[1:54:33] Legion Post 372 for their generous uh
[1:54:36] contribution and that was going to go to
[1:54:38] um
[1:54:39] » The purchase of our new tasers,
[1:54:40] » New tasers. So, I mean, I know they're
[1:54:42] expensive. Uh they wear out after a
[1:54:44] while and uh that was very generous of
[1:54:47] the American Legion to donate that to
[1:54:48] the girl.
[1:54:53] condemnations. I just see four
[1:54:56] properties back on the uh
[1:54:59] being used against it just sitting
[1:55:01] around.
[1:55:04] I know eight North 8 Street property
[1:55:06] right around the corner from just got
[1:55:07] done. So neighbors are very happy to see
[1:55:10] that all about a month from each other.
[1:55:13] Yeah.
[1:55:18] And um the ones
[1:55:22] that the connotations been lifted that
[1:55:25] were in the property reinvestment board
[1:55:29] that has
[1:55:31] um redevelopment authority been
[1:55:34] notified. Okay. Okay.
[1:55:38] » Yeah. Well,
[1:55:42] okay. We didn't talk about them last
[1:55:45] meeting, but I don't So, I don't know. I
[1:55:47] haven't seen the things for this month
[1:55:49] yet. So,
[1:55:59] All right.
[1:56:03] Anything else? Public safety.
[1:56:07] Um, all right. Market house report
[1:56:11] to report there. you have your only
[1:56:15] at this time and we also have a plus one
[1:56:18] which is
[1:56:21] understand it's being used in a
[1:56:22] different area. So that's good to see
[1:56:25] too.
[1:56:39] All right.
[1:56:42] That's right. Michelle's on vacation.
[1:56:46] Michelle is also on vacation [laughter]
[1:56:49] together or not, but we're both on
[1:56:52] vacation. All right. Um
[1:56:57] boards and commissions. We have uh a vac
[1:57:00] one vacancy on the parks and recck
[1:57:02] board.
[1:57:04] We have um some alternate positions, two
[1:57:07] on the zoning hearing board and three on
[1:57:10] planning commission.
[1:57:12] Volunteer applications will be
[1:57:14] considered through the 20th of each
[1:57:15] month. Um
[1:57:19] and then if applicable, they will be put
[1:57:22] on um a council agenda to be approved.
[1:57:28] Uh burough council comments. Uh what's
[1:57:32] » No just uh
[1:57:35] this meeting went a lot better than last
[1:57:38] week. Thankful for that. But thank you
[1:57:41] for all your comments today.
[1:57:44] Appreciate the the decorum today.
[1:57:48] Uh nothing new like say just uh glad to
[1:57:52] hear some
[1:57:54] calmer or an in-depth conversation
[1:57:57] rather than just yelling at each other.
[1:57:59] Uh but one one bright part at least
[1:58:01] after last Tuesday night I was I said I
[1:58:05] Wednesday, Thursday, Friday
[1:58:08] off off media and not checking emails.
[1:58:10] So I had three days of myself needed it
[1:58:12] to get my sanity back. So
[1:58:17] » Just it's nice to see some new faces.
[1:58:23] » Um this learning a lot of this stuff and
[1:58:30] classes and
[1:58:32] I'm looking forward to being able to
[1:58:40] awesome.
[1:58:43] » Uh I don't think I have anything. The
[1:58:45] only thing I was going to mention was
[1:58:47] the zoning thing. Um but got to that in
[1:58:50] legislation. So nothing from me.
[1:58:53] » Um
[1:58:55] as Jean mentioned, we are learning a
[1:58:57] lot. Jack's learning a lot. Um, hearing
[1:59:00] a lot of feedback. We also, you know,
[1:59:03] are hearing that
[1:59:06] it's always nice to know that you're not
[1:59:08] alone in stuff. Um, data centers is
[1:59:13] a huge conversation in just about every
[1:59:16] session we've been in. Um,
[1:59:21] feral cats has been brought up in
[1:59:24] several of the sessions that I've been
[1:59:27] in. Um, so we are not alone. This
[1:59:31] afternoon, we had a session and there
[1:59:34] was a pretty lengthy conversation about
[1:59:37] contentious council meetings and
[1:59:41] council being subjected to some pretty,
[1:59:44] you know, pretty runchy behavior and and
[1:59:50] just what we experienced last night. So,
[1:59:52] it's nice to know that we are we are not
[1:59:55] alone. I mean, one girl has had death
[1:59:57] threats from from members of the public
[2:00:00] and then one of the people that
[2:00:02] threatened to kill her is now on counsel
[2:00:04] with her. I feel bad for the girl. Like,
[2:00:07] [laughter]
[2:00:07] » Yeah, I know. Can you imagine?
[2:00:09] » Yeah. Like, how does that happen? But,
[2:00:12] um, one of the things that I have taken
[2:00:14] away and
[2:00:16] going to process it and bring it up in a
[2:00:19] future workshop, um, I got a model
[2:00:23] ordinance
[2:00:25] from a municipality
[2:00:28] that places a that places a fee
[2:00:32] on every PA skills machine in their
[2:00:35] municipality.
[2:00:36] Um, and it's done by ordinance and
[2:00:40] they're making like
[2:00:42] $20,000
[2:00:44] a year. Um, one one municipality is
[2:00:47] making like 80 grand on the PA based on
[2:00:51] how much they do. And my big concern on
[2:00:55] this was I know a lot of our fraternal
[2:00:56] organizations haven't been there, but
[2:00:59] the fee is charged to the owner of the
[2:01:01] machine. And those fraternal
[2:01:02] organizations do not own the machines.
[2:01:05] They just host them. So the owner would
[2:01:08] have to pay, not the Legion or the BFW
[2:01:12] or any of that. So I'm going to uh I
[2:01:14] pulled that ordinance and I'm going to
[2:01:16] be presenting that
[2:01:18] » Future.
[2:01:19] » Yeah.
[2:01:23] Yep.
[2:01:24] » There was a lot of talk about the state
[2:01:26] looking at taxing this.
[2:01:27] » Yes.
[2:01:28] » Last year.
[2:01:30] They're still mulling it.
[2:01:31] » They're still mulling it.
[2:01:32] » They've m stuff.
[2:01:33] » So,
[2:01:35] » Yeah, I know they're
[2:01:38] » They can't ever get themselves together.
[2:01:41] » All right. Up meeting.
[2:01:43] » The next meeting will be 700 p.m. on
[2:01:46] Tuesday, June 9th. Council will hold a
[2:01:48] regular meeting. I have a motion to
[2:01:50] adjourn.
[2:01:52] » Second.
[2:01:52] » Motion by council person easy.
[2:01:56] » Second by council person Cooper to
[2:01:59] adjourn at 9:02 p.m. All in favor?
[2:02:04] » I. Anyone opposed?
[2:02:07] » We're ajourned.
[2:02:09] » Check this. Tell