1 00:01:10,220 --> 00:01:39,540 Okay, the October 15, 2024 meeting of the dairy township zoning hearing board is called to order. I want to make everybody aware that it is and has been the policy of dairy township to record meetings from the purpose of accurate notes and posting on the township website. This meeting is being recorded for those purposes. We'll do a roll call during the Sarah. Here, Tom, Dean Donatus. Here, Mike Angelo. Here, Bill Tafuto. Here, Steve Sidal. 2 00:01:39,540 --> 00:01:41,560 I'm here. Okay, we're all here. 3 00:01:44,260 --> 00:01:52,340 Okay, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the September 18th, 2024 meeting. 4 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:59,280 I have a second. I'll second. Thank you, Tom. Any discussion? Okay, seeing none? All in favor? 5 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:10,100 Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that motion carries unanimously. All right, we have one item of old business today. That's the adoption of a decision in the case of 6 00:02:14,740 --> 00:02:26,340 I will read the substantive parts of that proposed order and go from there. 7 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:35,780 So number one, the applicants request for variance from section 225-401.2.1. 8 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:42,240 point B regarding construction on areas with slopes in excess of 20% is granted. 9 00:02:42,980 --> 00:02:48,760 The applicant may construct the single family residence while disturbing no more than the 10 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:54,360 area depicted in yellow in the applicant sketch plan submitted to the board at the hearing 11 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,200 of this matter except as otherwise permitted by the ordinance. 12 00:02:58,940 --> 00:03:05,960 And then I won't read all of these here, the applicant can read these in the order when 13 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:06,580 I receive that. 14 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:13,960 But there's a number of conditions that we've placed on that we're placing on this decision. 15 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:17,900 So I'll make a motion to adopt this decision. 16 00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:18,700 Do I have a second? 17 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:19,300 Second. 18 00:03:19,860 --> 00:03:20,380 Thank you Bill. 19 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:21,180 Any discussion? 20 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:22,880 All in favor? 21 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:23,400 Aye. 22 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:24,560 Any opposed? 23 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:25,440 Okay. 24 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,320 that motion carries unanimously. 25 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,620 All right, new business. We have one case tonight. We 26 00:03:40,620 --> 00:03:46,220 have a hearing in the case of Wendy. Are we all left? Am I saying that right? 27 00:03:48,670 --> 00:03:49,070 See again? 28 00:03:50,790 --> 00:03:57,370 Oh, okay. Okay. So I butch if I butchered her name then I guess she didn't hear that. Case number 29 00:03:57,370 --> 00:04:02,330 a 2024-21. So we'll give her a minute here. 30 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,080 I made the motion and Bill's second. 31 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:10,960 All 32 00:04:49,580 --> 00:04:52,100 right, for my delay, everything looks so dark outside. 33 00:04:53,520 --> 00:05:02,120 Okay, if you would. So we've just called your case. So we do need you to state your full 34 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,200 name and your address and be sworn in by the court reporter. 35 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,700 All right, my full name is Wendy R. We'll fluff. 36 00:05:10,300 --> 00:05:16,360 My address is 810, Fish Furn Road, Hershey P.A. 17033. 37 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:25,680 I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 38 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,640 and nothing but the truth, oh my God. 39 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,460 Okay, you can explain to us what you want to do 40 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:39,540 and how you're meeting there. 41 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,180 And before you're hearing board to see if I can get 42 00:05:45,180 --> 00:05:51,860 special exceptions for my home on 810 Fishburden Road to turn it into a 43 00:05:51,860 --> 00:06:03,800 bed and breakfast home. Right now it's currently S-F-D-D. When I go through the 44 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:14,680 paperwork that I filled out, it is a residential and commercial, residential and 45 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:20,600 commercial tour door. Bed and breakfast home will not overburden our public utilities. 46 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:29,740 There is existing commercial vendors in this same neighborhood along the street. And 47 00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:34,780 then this property meets all the right requirements of the zoning ordinance. 48 00:06:40,490 --> 00:06:43,550 So I was asking for, 49 00:06:43,550 --> 00:06:47,670 I think you're allowed to have up to five, no more than five bedrooms. 50 00:06:47,910 --> 00:06:58,110 I'm asking for four bedrooms, and I have no alleyways or anything to block. 51 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:08,470 I have a driveway rather wide driveway to the side of my house and two car parking under 52 00:07:08,470 --> 00:07:18,050 in a garage plus five more spaces outside to the right of the house when you're 53 00:07:18,050 --> 00:07:24,690 facing it be to the right so parking should not be a problem or burden any of my 54 00:07:24,690 --> 00:07:31,550 neighbors can you can you can you describe your like you know number of bedrooms 55 00:07:31,550 --> 00:07:37,210 and and so on that you currently have in your property and and what along me 56 00:07:37,210 --> 00:07:45,550 finish please. It has a bedroom on the main floor with an adjacent bathroom with a 57 00:07:45,550 --> 00:07:50,250 walk-in shower so that would be actually a nice fit for a person that has 58 00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:57,270 disabilities or difficulty climbing stairs and then upstairs three bedrooms on a 59 00:07:57,270 --> 00:08:04,960 bath up there full bath up there and then let's see it 60 00:08:09,030 --> 00:08:10,630 has a living room dining 61 00:08:10,630 --> 00:08:12,650 any room? Kitchen. 62 00:08:15,190 --> 00:08:22,010 And are you planning on adding bedrooms or adding any adding to your house? 63 00:08:22,430 --> 00:08:28,970 Well, it currently has enough bedrooms for me to to rent out and to reside on the premises. 64 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:41,140 Okay, are you adding anything to it? I wasn't going to add anything. So you said you have one bedroom on the main floor and a bathroom and you have three bedrooms upstairs. 65 00:08:41,140 --> 00:08:49,020 Yes, and then I have a full basement with the walk out, walk out, exit for me. 66 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:00,840 Your plan is to, when you have guests there, your plan is to be in the basement, is the stay in the basement, that's the plan. 67 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,800 And are you going to allow access to the kitchen, to the guests? 68 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:14,180 What I'm thinking is that although I have a home economics degree, I don't enjoy getting up early and making breakfast. 69 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:20,920 So, I was going to make things available for people to make themselves cereal or cooked cereal 70 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:27,320 or the pots and pans and those items to make their own breakfast and then when they were 71 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,080 going on cleanup. 72 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:30,220 Luckily, I have dishwasher. 73 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,040 I think they've enjoyed tasting my meals. 74 00:09:39,180 --> 00:09:42,320 I'm usually too impatient and I burn toast rather quickly. 75 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:53,340 So, is your plan to rent in each bedroom, rent individual rooms to various guests? 76 00:09:54,380 --> 00:09:57,180 I plan to rent in each bedroom for what? 77 00:09:57,420 --> 00:10:03,180 To rent each bedroom to individual guests or what? 78 00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:12,300 In the present time, I'm thinking that it will probably be families since we're in the 79 00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:17,840 The bedrooms are separated, but they would have to share the bath on 80 00:10:19,980 --> 00:10:20,560 each floor. 81 00:10:23,390 --> 00:10:29,150 And so what do you have in the basement that would allow you to live there? 82 00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:29,730 They have. 83 00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:31,270 You have a full bath? 84 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:35,310 Well, I have a shower, walk in shower, toilet, and sink. 85 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:44,260 I also have an outdoor shower, 86 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,220 but I don't think guests will enjoy that as much as I do. 87 00:10:52,840 --> 00:11:04,580 I have a concern about the parking day, maybe we can help us out with this accessibility and the parking situation for the number of vehicles that might be staying at the property overnight. 88 00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:12,360 As far as all they believe is separate spots for each vehicle that's required or will they have to park in line in the driveway. 89 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:24,280 So, a bed and breakfast home is more akin to residential in this setting where we allow 90 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:32,340 stacked parking. I would recommend a condition be made that it not be rented individual bedrooms 91 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:38,100 but whole house at the time because that will affect the parking because if there are non-related 92 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:47,880 to people. Now you have a parade of cars hanging out of a busy road trying to get the appropriate 93 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:56,500 car out. However, there are enough spaces for the two for her dwelling unit plus the 94 00:11:56,500 --> 00:12:01,900 four bedrooms. So six total spaces required. And as you mentioned, she does have the space 95 00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:04,400 in the garage plus five in the driveway itself. 96 00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:10,160 We do make them line them up. We do make applicants line them off so 97 00:12:12,330 --> 00:12:13,810 that's something that's 98 00:12:13,810 --> 00:12:21,770 checked on inspection. Yeah, can you show us though? I'm not following where the spaces outside 99 00:12:21,770 --> 00:12:24,770 of the garage are opening 100 00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:37,370 the garage door in its two car widths in there. So that would be two spaces where the car is now 101 00:12:37,370 --> 00:12:43,810 and beside it that would be two more spaces and then down the entire right side you could get 102 00:12:43,810 --> 00:12:45,030 more spaces. 103 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,640 How wide is the driveway that's paved Dave do you know? 104 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,120 I would 105 00:12:59,290 --> 00:13:00,430 say two cars could 106 00:13:00,430 --> 00:13:02,690 pass each other on the driveway because it's done. 107 00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:17,760 I drive a Honda and a Subaru so I don't have a 108 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,160 be like Graham, truck, or anything like that. 109 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,060 And then just for the record, this is being measured from quite a distance. 110 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,900 So it is not to be taking as fully accurate. 111 00:13:42,180 --> 00:13:44,700 Reasonable to assume 12 to 15 feet. 112 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,780 Still talking, we still talking about the width of the driveway. 113 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,800 Yes, yes, the driveway width is roughly 12 to 15 feet. 114 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,680 Okay, which is not too car-whist. 115 00:13:59,380 --> 00:13:59,480 Yeah. 116 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:09,040 Is your plan to rent the rooms out individually, or are you only planning to rent this to one family if somebody says I only need two of the bedrooms? 117 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:17,700 What I'm thinking is that maybe families would come, grandparents and adult children and grandchildren. 118 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:24,840 So one rental, one family, one, you're not going to have two families. 119 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:29,460 No, I would think in the fall, you might have two couples there, is that what you're saying? 120 00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:42,030 And, David, could you review the special exception portion about the kitchen and 121 00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:44,930 what is allowed and what isn't allowed, is it cooking, is there? 122 00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:45,970 Yes. 123 00:14:47,010 --> 00:14:50,170 As well as the definition section two, David. 124 00:14:50,950 --> 00:14:51,330 Absolutely. 125 00:14:51,950 --> 00:14:57,350 So, I will start with the definition of that in breakfast home. 126 00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:59,970 A bed and breakfast home isn't... 127 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:29,780 Unger occupied single-family detached dwelling in which a maximum of 10 rooms, all without cooking facilities, are rented to guests typically on a daily basis in which breakfast may be served to the guest to the proprietor by the proprietor of the facility. Then check in the special exception requirements. Point E states, meal service shall be limited to breakfast only to overnight guests of the facility. 128 00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:30,620 So, 129 00:15:38,050 --> 00:15:45,430 basically, they want the people that are staying there to be served food, not to prepare food. 130 00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:48,150 Is that what it says served by the- 131 00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:53,970 So, it's the operative word and the definition is maybe served breakfast. 132 00:15:54,590 --> 00:16:00,510 Breakfast is not a requirement, there is no meal service requirement, it's just optional. 133 00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:06,710 But if there is limited to breakfast only and provided by the proprietor. 134 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:13,070 provided by meaning light muffins and stuff, or they are, I guess, what I'm asking 135 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:17,250 is that are the people, I always thought there was something with, like, cooking or 136 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:22,570 stove or something where the people that the guests weren't supposed to have access 137 00:16:22,570 --> 00:16:24,050 to that. Is that not a thing? 138 00:16:24,490 --> 00:16:29,490 Yes, historically this board and the township has viewed that the guests should 139 00:16:29,490 --> 00:16:34,050 not be accessing the access. 140 00:16:34,770 --> 00:16:37,050 Yeah, as I said, it's like I was right. 141 00:16:37,690 --> 00:16:44,750 They should not have access to the the cooking facilities because then it turns the lines 142 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:47,950 are blurred between short-term rental and bed and breakfast home. 143 00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:56,150 And in my thoughts, I was thinking of a tourist home from when I was a kid where the owners 144 00:16:56,150 --> 00:17:01,590 members of the property. I think whoever came into the house at the time would share 145 00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:07,610 that bathroom and people understood that. And then there's the opportunity to make 146 00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:09,730 your own cereal or whatever in the morning. 147 00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:17,630 So I don't know if the bed and breakfast 148 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:26,830 idea still goes with that tourist home idea or not that used to be a cocoa avenue. 149 00:17:28,110 --> 00:17:37,080 So it has been the township's own officer determination in the past and it holds true that 150 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:43,680 guess of this bed and breakfast as with all bed and breakfast should not be able to cook 151 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:44,420 their own meals. 152 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:50,260 It should be breakfast only provided by the proprietor. 153 00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:56,100 We have seen that a continental breakfast is it is perfectly fine 154 00:17:57,260 --> 00:18:00,580 Setting out little serious cereals and stuff like that 155 00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:03,800 A little cooking for me to do the better 156 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,560 Do I pour their own cereal for them? Well 157 00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:13,460 Breakfast is not you do not need to provide breakfast. You could just choose to not provide the breakfast as well 158 00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:20,400 But if you choose to your it's just a cold 159 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:27,480 If I choose to, if you choose to, you're leaving out cold breakfast, they shouldn't be on the stove oven, etc. 160 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,160 I think that's the point. 161 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:29,540 Right. 162 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,880 And I would think that they would help themselves to heating up muffins in the microwave. 163 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,200 I wouldn't be surprised. 164 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:46,240 Well, I think that's part of the part of what we're trying to clarify here is that they're not, 165 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,740 But they're not to have access to cooking facilities. 166 00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:57,730 So if they, you know, board themselves a bowl of cereal, that's fine. 167 00:18:57,890 --> 00:19:04,950 But if you're giving them access to, if you're giving them access to the whole first and 168 00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:10,730 second floor, including the kitchen, that's not the definition of a bread and breakfast. 169 00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:30,350 Okay. This door, this house happens to have it. I don't know why, but they would actually have a swing door in the kitchen and a hallway and another door on the other side, and I can block off the entire kitchen for the people that would make them have to access the house from the front door. 170 00:19:32,550 --> 00:19:42,350 are you intending to and permanently live in the basement area or you live in the basement 171 00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:53,700 area when I would have guests or I would, you know, I think when the guests, if they're 172 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:55,600 my relatives, I'm staying in my bed. 173 00:19:57,060 --> 00:20:05,370 Okay, so your intention is that you still intend to utilize the entire house, including 174 00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:14,930 the kitchen on your first floor for yourself and when you have guests in the other four bedrooms 175 00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:21,110 and they would have essentially exclusive use of those four bedrooms and the bathrooms but 176 00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:22,390 room in the dining room. 177 00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:24,790 But not the kitchen and not the lower level. 178 00:20:25,450 --> 00:20:25,930 Correct. 179 00:20:26,430 --> 00:20:26,570 Okay. 180 00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:28,190 I have a question. 181 00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:30,290 And is this what kind of availability will you have? 182 00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:33,450 Will it be year round or will it be just tour season, summer season? 183 00:20:33,670 --> 00:20:34,470 You're round. 184 00:20:35,070 --> 00:20:40,910 And I'm thinking probably more families would come in the summertime and more couples would 185 00:20:40,910 --> 00:20:43,050 come in the spring and fall. 186 00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:44,490 Okay. 187 00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:49,350 So potentially you could have guests year round and you'd be in the basement for the full 188 00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:59,670 term during the guess. Okay. It's a nice face. Full table. Dark board. My only concern 189 00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:08,890 might be that if the owner operator is not going to be providing a breakfast for the people 190 00:21:08,890 --> 00:21:15,290 staying there, that it kind of gets away from the concept of bed and breakfast, doesn't it? 191 00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:22,550 Well, if it's going to be a bit of breakfast where I'm the only one serving, I can do that. 192 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,800 But I was thinking more of the cold cereal and that kind of thing. 193 00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:32,400 More of a continental breakfast for eat and run. 194 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:33,900 All right. 195 00:21:33,940 --> 00:21:34,440 Thank you. 196 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,600 I'm expecting guests to probably have a full agenda and some time it would be her sheep 197 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,360 or rest of the year might be looking at least changing or whatever. 198 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:44,280 All right. 199 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:44,640 Thank you. 200 00:21:53,850 --> 00:22:00,330 So when you would have guests there, back to the parking, where 201 00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:12,450 would you be parking and how will you get in and out if your schedule doesn't coincide with theirs in terms of going about your, you know, your daily activities. 202 00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:20,610 I'm thinking it's my property, so my schedule would need to coincide with the guest departure and me leaving after them. 203 00:22:20,610 --> 00:22:21,510 I 204 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:36,920 can also, my son has a place, I can walk to my son's house and take his car if I needed to. 205 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,600 What is the distance between your garage and looks like you have a turnaround key there? 206 00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:50,600 My concern is back and out on the Fishburne Road. 207 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:57,800 Yes, I have people do as I have them back down the driveway face in and go on to the 208 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:04,700 McCatum area and then back out back when they back they don't even go they go 209 00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:11,560 straight across the driveway there and then turn their vehicle forward. So if you 210 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,180 ever come to my house and you would start to back into that turnaround I'd 211 00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:18,580 encourage you to back straight down the driveway, 212 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,440 go face forward into the turnaround, 213 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,500 and then go backwards. 214 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:25,700 And that has been there for years. 215 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,140 So if some of it's Macatam and some of it's stone, 216 00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:33,280 it was all there. 217 00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:38,280 Right, so how much space then is available 218 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,540 than from that, and David, 219 00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:42,800 I don't know if we have any kind of a plan or anything 220 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:43,580 that shows that. 221 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,920 Yeah, from the, from the, from the face of the garage to, you know, where that turnaround 222 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,980 is, and that's going to be hard to turn around. 223 00:23:55,980 --> 00:23:59,240 Well, maybe we could figure out the width of my house. 224 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,720 Well, I'm trying, I'm trying to understand, yeah, I'm trying to understand whether there's 225 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,920 space for two cars in front of the garage, you're four cars in front of the garage without 226 00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:21,240 blocking that turnaround space okay if there's two down the line how do you 227 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,780 get past those cars when you turn around at that point because of that 228 00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:26,740 turnaround space it's 229 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,420 narrow west at the bottom of the road that closest to 230 00:24:33,420 --> 00:24:35,920 the road it's narrow west there yeah 231 00:24:38,260 --> 00:24:39,880 I mean without without seeing some 232 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:46,960 some dimensions. I'm not following how you both use the turnaround for its intended purpose 233 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:54,020 and also park cars, you know, past where the turnaround is. It just seems, that just doesn't seem 234 00:24:54,020 --> 00:25:01,040 plausible. I think you're saying you would have the two cars that are along the side. You'd have 235 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:08,240 them closer to the road is that you would not. Closer to the house. Closer to the house. Okay. 236 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:16,240 So what Steve is like parallel parking and it would be three cars down down the far right side parallel parking 237 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:24,240 Three down the right to at the garage and then the bump out would stay open. Yes 238 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,480 And you could actually 239 00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:32,560 But it might defeat your purpose is you could actually back into the the 240 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,300 in the cattle area and there could be a space there at the turn around space, but you're really defeating your purpose. 241 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:48,360 So you're, so where that car is if there's another one beside it, you would instruct them to back lines in the, in the, in the thing. 242 00:25:48,660 --> 00:25:56,880 So they should, should stay in the lines. There would be parallel lines and then you would have them back into that area. 243 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:04,140 So that car that's there now, would you have them swing into that open spot and then face forward? 244 00:26:04,820 --> 00:26:09,700 You'd have them back all the way down the driveway and then back onto fishburn. 245 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,160 To turn in the turn around spot. 246 00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:17,600 So we're backing up, passing, turning around and then going forward into the turn around and then... 247 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,520 Oh, I see what you're saying that's instead of backing into the turn. 248 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,500 It's not the same thing, sir. 249 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:24,320 Yeah, I did just... 250 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:33,360 the way I'm described. Yeah. Okay, but I just want to understand is once you get into the turn around going forward, how are you, how are you backing up? 251 00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:39,800 If you go straight back, you're, I thought you're saying there's cars lined up along that right side of the driveway. 252 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,740 Stop above that area. 253 00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:48,770 Stop above closer to the garage, you're saying. 254 00:26:53,450 --> 00:26:59,930 You could actually make a turn there, but people don't turn that back. 255 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,660 So the parallel park wouldn't extend back into that turn or back. 256 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,580 So if we're looking at that line, you got a car beside the CRB or whatever's there. 257 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:15,400 And then additional two cars. 258 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,080 Two more. 259 00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:16,400 Yeah. 260 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,640 but it's the cars aren't coming back as far as that turnaround that what you're 261 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,920 saying it's hard it's not well you know that's probably yeah right exactly that's 262 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:33,460 exactly it would be at that turnaround spot so yeah I think our chair in this 263 00:27:33,460 --> 00:27:39,300 question is is whether you can properly and efficiently use that turnaround when 264 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:46,100 you have two parallel parking spots there that are going to impede it's use 265 00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:52,380 And so I think it's all boils down to, you know, because of that are people going to be backing all the way up into Fishburn. 266 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:59,240 So that's why the questions are kind of centered around making sure that it's feasible to do that. 267 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:11,480 So if you pull into that turn around spot, you could also back into the back end of that Subaru that's showing there too, because that would be an empty space to turn. 268 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:21,740 I mean, what would be nice is if we actually had a plan view to scale showing the, you know, 269 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,700 where the placement of the cards is and what the radii are for turning just to make sure 270 00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:29,420 everything works the way you think it's going to work and so that we have something to 271 00:28:29,420 --> 00:28:32,380 reference if we approve or approve with conditions. 272 00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:37,060 In the past, I've had two teenage children there are now adults. 273 00:28:37,060 --> 00:28:43,460 My daughter just turned 39 today, but we had five cars in our driveway all the time. 274 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,120 So it was always a maneuverable thing. 275 00:28:54,990 --> 00:28:58,150 Only once did I have a truck at the time, but it was a small truck. 276 00:29:09,940 --> 00:29:10,640 Any other questions? 277 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:17,860 I guess the other possibility could be to drop it down to three bedrooms, and then that would 278 00:29:17,860 --> 00:29:19,320 eliminate one car space. 279 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:26,180 but if you're still that concerned, I'd like to keep it at four of that rooms. 280 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:35,240 Yeah, I mean, I think Mr. DeFuteau had had it correct as far as where I was going with what I was asking you. 281 00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:40,100 And that is, it's very hard to tell just looking at a photo here. 282 00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:42,420 The only way that you could maybe- 283 00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:43,600 Without looking at a plan- 284 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,580 The bird's eye view. 285 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,140 Right, without looking at a plan. 286 00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:47,960 Measure off and draw the lines. 287 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,480 Yeah, but to have a plan that shows where you're intending to put the parking relative to the you know the existing 288 00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:59,140 Academy gravel, you know 289 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:24,820 Around, et cetera. And typically that's, you know, what we would expect to see when someone's showing that we could, you know, certainly that could be something the township could staff could verify, which one possibility. David had that been looked at it all yet. No, that would be looked at as part of the permit in our standard parking spaces, nine feet by 18 feet. 290 00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:29,780 Granted, again, in most residents, 291 00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:38,040 or situations. That's overlooked just because it's not as imperative on residential however 292 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,800 when you're using residential as commercial in this case. If we do require that standard 293 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,380 parking, township parking spaces be provided. 294 00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:01,520 Okay. I think we've asked our questions. Is there anything else you want to add? 295 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:12,980 We will invite the public comment then and then we'll close out from there. 296 00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:17,100 It's everyone from the public that wishes to speak, testify. 297 00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:24,100 Please come up to the podium and please give us your full name and your address and the court reporter. 298 00:31:24,180 --> 00:31:24,900 We'll swear you in. 299 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:42,600 My name is Susan Lynn Eppler and I live we have we own the apartment building next to Wendy at 818 Fishburn Road and we live in a list of the town. 300 00:31:44,020 --> 00:31:45,760 Is there anything else for me to say? 301 00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:47,260 I think I spell your last name. 302 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:47,840 Oh, E. 303 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,680 P is in Paul. 304 00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:49,560 L-E-R. 305 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:51,940 Thank you. 306 00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:56,750 I do. 307 00:31:58,740 --> 00:31:59,140 Okay. 308 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:00,640 So we just have two concerns. 309 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,760 We're okay with whatever she wants to do. 310 00:32:02,860 --> 00:32:03,860 That's fine. We're a power tour. 311 00:32:04,140 --> 00:32:05,340 But one is the parking. 312 00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:10,940 years ago people used to park on our place and my dad and I had to go over and 313 00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:14,540 talk to her and tell her that that wasn't allowed but that was years ago so I'm 314 00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:18,740 not worried about that but more recently she's gone over she just crosses over 315 00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:23,540 a property to leave that way instead of using her in driveway and like if she 316 00:32:23,540 --> 00:32:26,600 didn't think we would be up or if she we were passing we just happened to catch 317 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,180 her a couple of times where we saw the lines in the grass so that is one of our 318 00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:36,520 concerns is the parking because we you know have our own tenants over there and we just don't want 319 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,380 we don't want our place being used. The other thing is pets we're worried about that because like 320 00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:48,340 her dog comes over and defecates on our yard quite often and that's okay and she's her neighbor we 321 00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:54,080 can just we'll just dispose of it but I don't want other animals to do the same thing and those were our 322 00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:00,520 two concerns. Okay, so your German animals that might be accompanying people that are renting 323 00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:14,860 a room? Yes. Okay. Are you 19? Yeah, that one right there. So when you're saying traverse, 324 00:33:15,140 --> 00:33:20,220 they go from that turnaround hub and then cross right through. Yeah, yeah, it was a little bit kind 325 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:21,880 in a catty corner is where she would come, 326 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,320 but yeah, when the grasses are up, she can't do as much, 327 00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:24,740 but yeah, 328 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,640 we did allow her to park there 329 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,420 when she was getting her road repaved, 330 00:33:32,540 --> 00:33:33,840 but not to go through our grass. 331 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,480 I mean, straight through there. 332 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,480 Yeah, when the grasses aren't there, 333 00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:40,340 then she would go there, yes. 334 00:33:43,060 --> 00:33:44,360 And those are pretty much our only concerns. 335 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,560 Of if not, I mean, we have no problem with it all. 336 00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:51,370 Do you have any questions of me or? 337 00:33:51,850 --> 00:33:56,170 Well, just so, are you saying that driving through that area 338 00:33:56,170 --> 00:34:02,810 was happening one just any time or just when there were more vehicles or too many vehicles. 339 00:34:03,070 --> 00:34:07,490 Well there was no reason for that but yeah a long time ago I should have people parked there but 340 00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:27,460 that was right after we bought the building and that was years ago when what has been 341 00:34:34,540 --> 00:34:38,060 So anyone else from the public wishing to speak? 342 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,740 You're welcome to, if you want to. 343 00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:55,520 In front of the spaces before they owned the previous owner allowed. 344 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,500 We would often have, we all attend fishburn church. 345 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,920 So we would have an eating run type of thing in our home after church so everybody would 346 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,680 gather and eat at our house and then go home. 347 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,440 the previous owner that owned the apartments before those buildings the 348 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:21,620 sheds were there allowed us to park the friends to park their cars because it 349 00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:28,420 was often as much as 20 people so that that was a safe way out and also safe in our 350 00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:32,940 driveway as well so that would have been more of a situation where it would have 351 00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:37,980 been an event or something like that that's what people would call it today 352 00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:47,120 on Sundays after church for a meal and then they also had given me permission when we did have 353 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:54,140 an event which was my daughter's wedding to use that area there to turn around as well so we are 354 00:35:54,140 --> 00:36:03,460 pretty reasonable neighbors as far as respecting each other when I do drive through their property it's 355 00:36:03,460 --> 00:36:07,520 because I have a trailer on the back 356 00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:11,140 and I am cutting down those decorative grasses. 357 00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:14,860 I often cut theirs down for them as well. 358 00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:18,060 So I thought that I was doing them a favor 359 00:36:18,060 --> 00:36:19,800 by returning the favor. 360 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,540 Regarding the dogs, they go through the backyard 361 00:36:25,340 --> 00:36:28,340 and one of their rentals is right on the other house 362 00:36:28,340 --> 00:36:31,480 on the other side and they have a Dalmatian 363 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:37,760 and their puppy and the boys call the dogs over in and chase their dog back. 364 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:43,380 So the dogs running them back and forth through the back yards does happen. 365 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,880 And I can control that by stopping it by getting the shop collar on the dog again. 366 00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:53,040 They do have under all their shits, they do have feral cats. 367 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,200 So we ignore the cats. 368 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,460 Any way, Wendy, would you have a problem if we put a condition if we, if we were inclined 369 00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:06,220 to approve this, would you have a problem with a condition that said your guests can't have pets? 370 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:07,700 Oh, for sure. 371 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:08,640 Is that fine? 372 00:37:09,140 --> 00:37:11,040 I would be more than happy for that. 373 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:11,780 All right. 374 00:37:12,020 --> 00:37:12,680 Just wanted to- 375 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,800 Because that would be a problem. 376 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,700 I mean, that addresses this, we don't, yeah. 377 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,380 And do you still have your Sunday gatherings or is that in the past? 378 00:37:20,420 --> 00:37:23,160 I know that my husband was the cook in our family. 379 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:23,860 Thank you. 380 00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:31,120 I say I don't look, I can make the mess and I can clean up, but I don't do the cooking. 381 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:36,900 Okay. All right. 382 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,580 I think so. 383 00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:50,600 All right, so the board has 45 days to rent her a decision and you have 30 days thereafter to appeal. 384 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:52,240 If you're agreed in any way. 385 00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:54,920 Steve, we're in the back, maybe. 386 00:37:55,140 --> 00:37:57,500 Were you guys planning to say to anyone else? 387 00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:01,300 What was plenty on speaking of that I think I asked that but okay, 388 00:38:04,220 --> 00:38:07,120 so you go again. All right. Thank you 389 00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:08,220 Okay 390 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,380 That concludes our 391 00:38:11,380 --> 00:38:12,480 bad hearing 392 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,300 Okay any other business 393 00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:27,840 Hearing none. I'll make a motion for the board to adjourn to executive session. I'll second. Thank you Tom. Any discussion all in favor 394 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,020 I and the board will do 395 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,920 I'm sure into an executive session to celebrate on this case. 396 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:35,600 Thank you.