[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] So we're kicking off the Board of Education Finance Committee meeting today at 9.35 a.m. I'm calling
[0:09] it to order. I believe in the rule, we have, it's, people just want to announce themselves
[0:19] and trace the penalties on the phone here.
[0:22] Jen Maxson Cannelli.
[0:27] Carrie Devaney.
[0:28] Frank McBehary.
[0:29] McKaysa.
[0:30] Michael Teston.
[0:32] Perfect.
[0:34] The first order of business is approval of the meeting minutes.
[0:40] It includes your number one approval of the last meeting minutes.
[0:46] I'll make the motion.
[0:48] I'll second.
[0:50] Paul in favor.
[0:52] Hi.
[0:53] I so unanimous approval. Thank you so much. We can jump to the next item business discussion items.
[1:06] The first item is fourth quarter financial review. I believe Frank you you're going to jump in here.
[1:16] Yeah, yeah. So I provided a memo as I've done with the other quarterly financial reviews at this point all the surpluses and deficits are kind of things that we've already talked about in prior quarters.
[1:32] I'll just hit the highlights that the total surplus for this year, it's unaudited.
[1:37] It's 2,257,563.
[1:42] And with that, we would be proposing to transfer that into a non-lapsing account.
[1:49] And that's really, that's all I'll say about the memo.
[1:52] It's kind of what we've talked about in the past.
[1:55] I think
[2:00] actually a good sheet that just summarizes everything is the legal size sheet here, the urine, transfer work sheet.
[2:09] I can answer any questions about any of these categories, but it kind of has all the surplus and deficits on one page.
[2:17] So if you go to this guy, oh, not this.
[2:20] Yeah.
[2:22] Oh, no, sorry.
[2:23] In that aligns with item B as well, too, Frank?
[2:28] Yeah, yeah.
[2:29] I'm just kind of using it, I think it's actually
[2:31] a little bit easier to talk about for.
[2:33] So fourth column from the right column that
[2:37] has surplus deficit over it, fourth column from the left.
[2:41] Personnel expenses, we ran a surplus of 1.739 million,
[2:45] in fixed charges at surplus of 1.2 million.
[2:49] Pupil personnel expenses, IE special ed, 4.3645.
[2:53] School expenses is slight deficit of 8,320.
[2:58] Support a surplus of 127,615 maintenance and operations
[3:04] and transportation is 7.53,895 and capital outlay.
[3:09] Adept to sit at 4.79,383.
[3:12] Now, that's comparing the original budget to the expenditures.
[3:16] You guys did address some of these in your May meeting, so if you look at, for example,
[3:23] maintenance and operations of transportation, 446,000 of that 753 deficit was related to
[3:30] that snow removal.
[3:31] You guys have already addressed that.
[3:33] The remaining deficit of 307 493 76 is just related to certain security related projects
[3:41] projects that we had initiated in some other maintenance projects.
[3:48] For capital outlay, same thing, if you look at the deficit for $79.383, you addressed $352.286
[3:56] of that in your May meeting, which was related to pre-purchase of Chromebooks and the equipment
[4:03] that maintenance and operations and transportation wanted to buy.
[4:07] So the remaining deficit is $127.097, which is just related to actually the purchase of
[4:14] cafeteria tables.
[4:15] We became aware of some safety issues related to cafeteria areas.
[4:19] You said we address $352.
[4:22] We only addressed $250.
[4:24] I thought.
[4:25] Yeah, but if you look at Q3 transfer number 4, so if you look at this column here, $352,
[4:32] you would...
[4:33] Oh, oh, I see.
[4:34] Okay.
[4:35] I understand.
[4:36] Yeah, no problem. Thank you. So I'm going through this one first because I think it kind of
[4:42] just presents everything pretty well. I can answer any questions on the summary
[4:50] if anybody has any, but I kind of pause there and ask for any questions related to the
[4:55] So those are plus and financial or on this Q4 transfer to yeah
[5:02] This
[5:06] What is this that is support expanse? Yeah, so that is
[5:12] That is the transfer for the surplus
[5:16] It's only 204 904 one because there's already 208 522 in the category
[5:23] So you only need to authorize the difference between
[5:27] 228.522 and the surplus of 225.7563, that's to transfer.
[5:34] It's a 208.
[5:35] Right next to me.
[5:37] To the left.
[5:38] See 208.522 remaining trace.
[5:41] So that's what's remaining in the category.
[5:42] Okay.
[5:43] So you don't need to authorize that because it's already in the category.
[5:47] Oh, I understand.
[5:48] So we're moving everything to that category.
[5:52] And then that category will be transferred to the non-lapse.
[5:56] Okay, what I would I what I could do just to make the numbers matching confused people less less
[6:02] I could just put a negative 208 522 in the in
[6:09] No, it doesn't know no, it makes sense when you explain it you're definitely going to have to explain that at the
[6:16] At the table. Yeah, I do I did
[6:19] For each for each transfers. No, this is kind of going to be with the quarterly financials
[6:25] And then for each transfer, I kind of just showed just this for the transfer number one
[6:30] for the year end transfers and just this for transfer number two to kind of just as
[6:36] backup.
[6:37] So when people are voting on it, they kind of have the transfer in front of it.
[6:41] It's not on this big sheet.
[6:42] So I just put like I'm one piece of paper, just that transfer for.
[6:46] So that's going to be that's not here, but with the board that it would be there.
[6:50] So this one was everything we did for we already bought that's every that's everything
[6:54] you've done.
[6:54] Yeah, and the sub-total zero out because all the transfers have to balance. So for you for
[7:03] We're only
[7:04] How
[7:08] are we doing this? We have multiple?
[7:11] transfers, but we're doing it as as one
[7:14] No, on the on the board of ed on your agenda for next week you'll have two transfers
[7:21] We'll have one transfer which is transfer number one what after we I did change that to kind of a line with the language
[7:28] which will transfer number one or your year-end budget transfers.
[7:31] Okay.
[7:32] That's going to be one motion and transfer number two to cover the non-lapsing.
[7:36] It's going to be your second motion.
[7:37] So there will be two separate motions.
[7:39] So the...
[7:40] Again, remember who's asking the question?
[7:43] Yeah.
[7:43] So the second transfer basically involves zeroing out three accounts,
[7:47] putting them into one single account,
[7:48] and then that account is what's transferred into the...
[7:51] Correct.
[7:51] ...and expended once.
[7:52] Yep, yep.
[7:53] Yeah, correct.
[7:54] Or to stay on expended.
[7:55] Yeah.
[7:55] Yes, what do we what why don't we have totals here?
[7:59] Because they're transfers they all you're transferring from one category and adding to another so they just zero
[8:06] It's a zero. It's zeroes out. Okay. Yeah, so the three numbers below add up to the 442 910 correct. Yeah
[8:23] The three numbers below the 8000 320
[8:29] 307 493 76 and 127
[8:32] and 0.9.7 add up or 4.2 9.10.7.6.
[8:37] Gotcha.
[8:45] And then the, we're gonna also then say that the 8.39.2.16.04.
[8:52] The 608.4.4.9.9.6.
[8:54] The 601.376 should add up to 2.049.
[8:59] Oh, that is an 0.40.
[9:04] And we already have the 3.
[9:07] Okay, so we already have the 208.5.22.
[9:10] to in that category. So it doesn't need to be authorised.
[9:16] And there's no way that I can kind of
[9:18] display it because it's because just as the way it's. Let's see. I want to put just a total over
[9:25] here and just add these two numbers together. Yeah, I could do that. Yeah. Just so you can show
[9:31] that how you got to the 2 2 5 soon. That might be helpful. Okay. Will there be as part of the budget
[9:39] motion. It's just going to say transfer one. It's not going to say the amount.
[9:44] It will say the amount. So I'll just read the motions to you. So this is better to do it now
[9:50] than on the floor.
[9:53] Let me just pull it up.
[10:09] Okay. So the language for the approval of so item E will
[10:20] will be the approval of quarter, four year end budget transfers.
[10:25] And the recommended motion that the Board of Education approve the transfer of four,
[10:29] four, two, nine, 11, from and two various accounts to close the fiscal year.
[10:35] Does it matter that this is 9, 10, 76?
[10:38] I mean, we can.
[10:39] I don't, that's a counting thing.
[10:42] I don't know if it matters.
[10:43] I can, I can, yeah.
[10:45] Yeah. Well, you can't say, you can't say various accounts that close the fiscal year, and it has to say as per enclosure.
[10:54] Okay. And that way, that way we have the backup for it.
[10:57] Okay. As per enclosure, whatever that enclosure is.
[11:02] All right. So I actually think I like this.
[11:07] And then I'll just, I'll just adjust this to be the actual accounts.
[11:16] If it says per enclosure in the motion, that's what we've generally done.
[11:22] I didn't think we usually had the dollar amount. I just didn't want this to be.
[11:29] I don't even know if we need the dollar amount in there.
[11:33] I thought it made it more clear as opposed to, well, what is the transfer?
[11:39] If you say the number, but I don't really care.
[11:41] I don't care either way, but I could say as per enclosure for both of them instead of the number maybe do that
[11:47] Maybe don't include the number
[11:52] I don't think it makes a big I don't think it might I think whatever you're comfortable with
[11:56] Maybe on this sheet. What have we done if we have to say what the what we should do what we
[12:02] As transferable so it's also harder. I don't think we included a number
[12:12] Well, the enclosures are going to, the additional enclosures that I kind of talked about.
[12:16] Let me just look to see what Jeff did last year.
[12:29] Oh, yeah.
[12:32] This is, this is kind of what I'm in it as each separate enclosure.
[12:36] That's what I'm going to include for the each transfer.
[12:38] Oh, okay.
[12:39] Oh, well, that will be much more.
[12:40] So they're not going to be looking at this.
[12:42] No.
[12:43] Oh, yeah.
[12:44] I thought it would be easier to do it to have this
[12:47] says is like the summary. Yes. But then give them kind just zero in their focus that I that's the part
[12:53] I was concerned about. Yeah. So so they be so they'll be the two separate enclosures. I can
[12:59] see the numbers. Yeah. So that would be one that's for the unexpended account transfer. And then the
[13:07] other one looks the same for the Q for your own budget transfer. So if you say as per this enclosure
[13:12] It's going to have the category that won't be it. Yeah, and it'll have the amounts as well
[13:16] So maybe we just say has per enclosure instead of putting the amounts in
[13:21] The one thing that's different just because of the way I display it like I said
[13:25] I
[13:27] Can the way I display it here because I have a from and two columns separately. I think that's good
[13:33] It it shows it shows the total amount here. So like it'll it'll this will foot to the two two five seven five sixty-three
[13:41] It's just going to be different than like with this show is because like I said I'm only showing the two and from her essentially in the same line
[13:48] So like it just nets out. So but this will show the current the full two two five seven five sixty three. So
[13:55] All right,
[14:08] wait now. I'm
[14:12] just now I'm embarrassed now I am confused
[14:16] Yeah, it's okay. So basically
[14:19] bad sheet shows the two. Now I'm looking at the third column. So remaining transfer
[14:27] proved.
[14:30] So this is just for the unexpended funds transfer, which is related to this
[14:35] column. Right. Yeah. But the number on there was the 2, 2, 5, 7. Yes. Because I'm showing
[14:40] from and to separately, right? Because in actuality, I don't need to put this in. I'm just
[14:48] putting it in so the 2257563 is clear. But in actuality, the number nuts out because
[14:55] I'm transferring from and to in the same category. So it's just a way to...
[15:00] Show this as the number. That you can't do it because that's just two and from is in the same lines in you. Simply, I miss enclosure to not include these. Just have this one column. At five, seven could do that. Then have the separate enclosure because this, I think, confused. Well, at first, I thought it was making its help to make sense. But no, I think it's confusing because of the 208 by 22.
[15:30] So if you leave that off and just show the remaining transfer to be approved and then have
[15:37] a separate enclosure, it might be clear for them to understand.
[15:41] Yeah, or I could just get rid of that and just make it match this one.
[15:48] It's like it's whatever people think are people are going to be less confused by.
[15:51] I think the 2-0-4-9 is confusing.
[15:55] Okay.
[15:56] Just because...
[15:57] I agree.
[15:59] That's why it took me a couple of times.
[16:01] If it took me a couple of times for Frank to walk me through.
[16:05] Yeah.
[16:06] I agree with you, Terry.
[16:07] I think they're going to want to see 2-2-5-7.
[16:10] That's what I'm about to match that up to the transfers.
[16:14] I think it's clear.
[16:15] So then you can just get rid of these last two columns.
[16:19] Well, don't forget, though, Terry, that bottom-lapsing transfer is a separate motion.
[16:24] So that would be a separate enclosure showing the total, right?
[16:30] That would show the two, too.
[16:32] Because that wouldn't...
[16:35] But that's part of the transfer.
[16:38] No, it's two separate motions.
[16:39] Yeah, each transfer is going to have this as an enclosure.
[16:43] So this is for the unexpended funds transfer and the year-end budget transfer is going
[16:48] going to have the same obviously different numbers, but that will be the enclosure.
[16:53] Oh, that looks straightforward.
[16:54] So basically what I could do is I can get rid of these last two columns.
[16:59] This number at the bottom ties to the 2, 2, 5, 7, 5, 6, 6, 3, and then we can just
[17:08] include these separately as, you know, separate motions essentially.
[17:16] So if this is the unexpended funds, then where is the reconciling Q4 transfer typical one?
[17:25] Well, it's it's kind of like all and so that's why that's why it's all for me.
[17:31] Break out. Yeah, so I guess there's I guess there's pros and cons, right?
[17:37] I can get rid of these last two. You'll see the 2257563.
[17:41] three, there's the benefit to that, but yeah, it's hard to explain then why you're doing
[17:49] two transfers.
[17:50] If one's doing a total of two, five, seven, five, sixty, three, and the other one's
[17:55] doing four, forty, two, nine, ten, seven, and six.
[17:58] There's the point is we have three accounts which are in a deficit.
[18:02] They need the transfer.
[18:04] I get that.
[18:05] That's the first transfer we're voting for.
[18:07] Yeah. And then after that is left, you have two, two, five, seven, five, six, three,
[18:14] that the other one is just authorized the trip. Okay, so I see where that's accounted for that
[18:23] it has been transferred out. I just don't see it as a standalone column anymore, not that I
[18:28] have to.
[18:34] Okay.
[18:37] I mean, the alternative is I could keep these two columns and I can just make
[18:42] this one match because I don't need that there it's what if you say what if you moved to see what
[18:53] I'm saying 80 year-end motion to move the two away instead of leaving it
[19:04] to as part of the year
[19:06] and transfer you couldn't cover this and then whatever's left maybe cover these with this two away
[19:17] and then move it there in
[19:26] that way. So so you would what you would do is you would do
[19:30] the this would become the difference between the 208 so put a transfer out of 208 522 here
[19:39] yeah yeah for out for the difference and then you're just going to have us the 225 set.
[19:45] Let me do it right now and let's see if it makes sense to everybody because that we tied.
[19:50] I think that actually is pretty straight forward then.
[19:54] So we're using the money that's there in there to cover
[19:58] and then we'll cover the balance
[20:00] and then that should in theory leave the 2, 2, 5, 7.
[20:04] So that makes more sense.
[20:06] I'm just gonna do it too.
[20:08] So I know, they look last year.
[20:10] We didn't do these transfer votes
[20:12] until the second September meeting.
[20:15] And it was as enclosed.
[20:18] Okay.
[20:18] There was no number.
[20:19] Why do we wait so late?
[20:23] Maybe because of the timing of the finance committee meeting.
[20:26] Maybe. Yeah.
[20:30] Well, then I have to ask, is there any reason we shouldn't be doing this right now?
[20:35] No, we want to do it now because they're not accessing it.
[20:39] I mean, we have to figure out something.
[20:40] It's got to be.
[20:41] Well, no, I mean, because it's not like those got us audited numbers as opposed to unaudited, right?
[20:46] No, but I think because of the non-lapsing account, I think Frank said for the state we're supposed to make the transfer by a certain date.
[20:56] Okay.
[20:57] Unless
[21:00] it's not going to make it any clear.
[21:05] Well, no, I just didn't know if there had been a reason for it because I hadn't said we had to do it at this meeting, but.
[21:13] I think the best way to explain it is we're transferring money into accounts that add deficits and then we're transferring the remaining money into an account.
[21:20] No, absolutely. It's just trying to read the numbers that way is what was tricky.
[21:26] Our job here is to anticipate.
[21:29] Or for questions.
[21:31] Not going to be prepared.
[21:37] I think we have to understand that we have two highly competent
[21:41] accountings that work really hard to get.
[21:45] And we have trained.
[21:47] Yeah.
[21:50] Yeah, we've studied this and have experience in it, exactly.
[21:55] Right.
[21:59] And the numbers all add up.
[22:01] Yeah.
[22:02] Yeah, exactly.
[22:05] The math is math thing.
[22:06] It will less than 1% off of our budgeted number.
[22:10] So the total.
[22:11] Welcome.
[22:12] It's good.
[22:13] The total surplus then ends up at being like 2.8.
[22:17] It's just we did the prepurchasing, right?
[22:22] in Q3 retrain. Yeah, I mean, so always, I don't know if the board, I can't remember if the board asked.
[22:29] Wasn't all pre-purchasing. No, no, no, that was snow-plowing. Right, and the legal expenses.
[22:35] Yeah. The pre-purchasing was a small number. It was about 603. Okay.
[22:43] Is there ever, I don't know if the board members last this, but always the reflection on,
[22:49] is there anything that we could have, does this help us with better anticipating for the upcoming budget?
[22:56] No, because I think we still have a lot of exposure with transportation.
[23:00] And, you know, we had a really good year with special education, but that's always something that's
[23:05] a wild card, especially when we had a lot of immune people enter the district. I don't know what those
[23:12] needs are going. So I think that we'll know more I think as we get to Q2 right here Frank.
[23:22] I mean you'll know you'll know basically all the big things right
[23:29] and you'll have a rough estimate but really is like where Q3 is really way to get to
[23:35] Yeah, but in terms of cutting spending,
[23:39] I don't know where else.
[23:40] I mean, we've cut a lot of spending,
[23:42] unless we're going to.
[23:44] So like the personnel expenses,
[23:46] that's obviously the biggest number.
[23:49] Anything there that we could have anticipated better
[23:51] in terms of where those are lower FTE count or?
[23:56] No, I mean, I think what we could have anticipated better
[23:59] if we had classized discussions,
[24:03] several, several months earlier. So, I mean, we have more FTE, the elementary school now,
[24:09] then we originally had anticipated.
[24:12] No, no, I meant from last year that we ended with a surplus.
[24:16] Well, because the savings in FTE, that was really the biggest drive.
[24:21] Those were some, we had substantial savings in FTE for positions that weren't filled,
[24:26] which also have a corresponding savings in the benefits.
[24:29] Right. And what was the what was the nature of most of the positions that were unfilled?
[24:34] Well, I think Terry uncovered that there was just some built-in positions that
[24:39] I don't think had ever intended to be filled. I think that was part of the issue. So we
[24:46] corrected that. I mean, that was you know, Terry did the end of the year last year. She worked really hard.
[24:52] So when we entered the budget season, we had accurate
[24:56] projections for FTE that we
[24:59] that we planned for.
[25:00] Oh, so that's already been kind of anticipated
[25:02] in the 20th, 20th, 27th?
[25:03] Oh, excellent.
[25:05] That's why I think people need to understand.
[25:07] We haven't had any major asks percentage-wise
[25:12] of the budget, given COVID and all the increase
[25:16] in costs and everything.
[25:18] So we've done a new teachers contract that was kicking in.
[25:22] You know, we haven't been over,
[25:24] we haven't had a five-ask yet.
[25:27] So I think I just, and the downside should be really appreciative and it's not, they don't show it, but we've stayed in the frameworks and all our asks for every system for the most.
[25:40] I'm trying to see how it's going to need to.
[25:42] It's much cleaner, I think, this way.
[25:44] If you think so, I'll have them find.
[25:46] I'll go and pick on this one, not make a transfer out.
[25:49] Yeah, so we're using the 208 to cover the deficits, so that way it won't be a 2.049,
[25:58] now it'll show the full amount. So we're using that 208 remaining to cover some of the deficits.
[26:06] So we use that to cover the deficits, and then we transfer the whole amount to the category
[26:12] and to the special fund.
[26:14] No, I understood that to begin with.
[26:17] I don't understand what you just said,
[26:19] but that's, I don't overly care.
[26:22] Okay.
[26:23] I'm not, and in other words, I'm not questioning the numbers,
[26:25] at all.
[26:26] It's solely a matter of being able to explain it
[26:28] and understand it,
[26:29] and I always get there eventually.
[26:30] It just takes me longer and I don't want to hold this up.
[26:34] I understood these columns in the first place.
[26:36] All right, so, okay, so this will explain
[26:40] the U4 transfers. Yeah. And then it also shows the deficit, the surplus and the deficit. Yeah,
[26:49] that's cool. And then on this, that's it. And we, what is our enclosure going to be for the,
[27:02] that was my next question, surplus trans. So the unexpected funds to the non-lapsing account,
[27:08] are we still going to use this sprint sheet or are we going to I'm going to I'm just going
[27:14] to have it like I said you're not the enclosures are going to be this whole sheet it's just going
[27:18] to be just going to be this. And that motion will basically be to move 2.257 to support expense.
[27:28] We're not doing the dollar amount. It'll be to move this amount from support services.
[27:35] Well, two support expenses and the way and that's where looking at the summary is helpful.
[27:41] No, but I'm saying for the non-lapsing motion.
[27:44] Yeah, so for the non-lapsing motion you're taking all of your surpluses and moving into support
[27:49] expenses because that is the category where they transfer to non-lapsing account is so that's where
[27:57] why you put the money there and then that's it. Okay, so this is the this is why we have
[28:02] of the,
[28:05] okay, there was money left in that account.
[28:08] So why would you wanna, you would put it in there
[28:11] and go out rather than take that out
[28:12] into something else and end it.
[28:14] Oh, so it's not that it has to be that one.
[28:16] It was just one that already had some surplus in it.
[28:20] No, it does, like did the statute designate
[28:23] which account it had to come out of?
[28:24] No, not at all.
[28:25] It's just that, yeah.
[28:33] So if you look at, and this is on all the quarter reports, I've just put it on to this hole in the map.
[28:39] Oh, okay.
[28:40] So you see there's a subcategory.
[28:42] If you look at the subtotal support expenses in the second one from the bottom, that's just where it's, that's just where that line was.
[28:49] Okay.
[28:49] That's why it's going to support it.
[28:51] That's fine.
[28:51] That's, it's planable.
[28:52] Yeah.
[28:53] Perfect.
[28:53] Okay.
[28:57] So my request is, can you please double check the agenda?
[29:02] Yes.
[29:03] I've been working with Maggie.
[29:04] Okay.
[29:04] And I've been, as of yesterday, there was no motion at all for the second transfer.
[29:09] So she sent me, yeah, and she sent me something yesterday last night.
[29:13] I replied back.
[29:15] So I told her, like, just before she sends it out, just check with me.
[29:18] Thank you.
[29:18] Yeah.
[29:19] And can if it's in the headable doc, can you just make changes?
[29:27] So with regard to the Q4 financials, which is a good idea.
[29:34] I
[29:39] didn't really see anything that was surprising.
[29:44] Do you foresee from your experience so far with the board,
[29:49] anything popping out here that we need to try and?
[29:52] I mean, not really, the only thing is, is that all there, you know.
[30:01] The only thing is maybe explaining the 2, 2, 5, 7, 5, 6, 3, and support expenses. When I review the deficits here, I kind of say what's, you know, over and above what was already transferred, which they may want to know. Do you need to adjust any of this? No, but we just did on this first year, no? No, because it's because these are kind of like general shift descriptions, Q, Q4, TR number two is already. It's just the year and
[30:31] fun. Maybe I'll just put the unexpended funds account to make the language consistent.
[30:49] So this Q4 report is assuming that the Q4 budget transfers are approved.
[30:58] Yes, and this is how it's reflected.
[31:00] Yes, and we have to do that because we have to close the fiscal year. So we have to do these things.
[31:08] This fiscal year is typically closed on July 30th, so you have to have a balanced budget.
[31:14] So you have to do all your transfers, that's what I'm going to do.
[31:19] If by chance that they didn't approve the transfer to non-lapsing, I won't even provide
[31:26] that option.
[31:27] But obviously, if something wasn't approved, there are ways to fix things in the back end.
[31:32] But then it becomes just accounting entries that are different because the fiscal year is closed and well, the only thing I could see being a discussion is if someone raises the topic of do we want to put this all in or do we want to return some of it to the town. I can't imagine there would be any.
[31:47] But those that those are going to two choices.
[31:49] Sort of finance basically said put this in the not correct.
[31:51] Yeah, so they didn't they didn't ask for anything back. They said this was a good idea to put it in the
[31:56] laps and I think a lot of that discussion will come up when you
[32:00] Well, I just said with Frank saying that if it's not approved to transfer the only other option is that so
[32:05] So I apologize Frank. I enter. Oh, no, no problem
[32:07] No, I mean, I think a lot of it'll come on with the policy because your policy allows up to five million
[32:13] So they approved the policy that shouldn't be any discussion or any amounts within the policy
[32:17] And we've been talking about this non-lapsing since the day I walked through the door.
[32:23] So, it's finally come to fruition that we've had the opportunity to create the account
[32:29] and actually fund it.
[32:30] So, and we need help, I think, I'm a little concerned a little bit about the transportation.
[32:38] Mostly because of the special ad transportation or just even the...
[32:42] Just the car.
[32:43] Okay, when
[32:48] do we start to know if we are going to be on a good trajectory or not with transportation?
[32:53] Yeah, I
[32:58] think I honestly will say just by the offset to transportation given the contractual
[33:04] increase in the amount we actually increase the budget by I could just tell you right off the bat
[33:09] that will be probably in a deficit in that line. The question becomes where will you be favorable
[33:14] and other lines to offset that deficit and that's what doesn't become apparent till later quarters.
[33:20] I mean,
[33:28] we're obviously going to try to offset as Frank just eloquently explained if we
[33:34] could find offsets and other spending categories for the transportation and for running a deficit.
[33:40] That would be great.
[33:41] That's our first option.
[33:43] And then the non-lapsing would come, obviously, would be our last option if we needed the
[33:48] much more.
[33:49] Which the way I would envision it is by Q3, depending on the size of the deficit is where you would vote to, you know, a non-lapsing transfer if it was needed.
[34:03] because that's the work you see where FTEs fall by the time all the traditional classrooms are at it and that's really where the majority of the service on slide last year.
[34:16] Yeah, and classrooms as the Aries mentioned several times opening new classrooms is not just hiring a teacher.
[34:21] I mean, it supplies its furniture, it's other things that go along with it that we need to provide.
[34:29] All right, so it goes in today, we're cross-fied on the one that is for the elementary section is plus five.
[34:37] So just to note, for the record at 9.59, Mrs. Renaldi had to leave the meeting.
[34:42] Secretary, I will take over the meeting as of 9.59.
[34:45] Okay.
[34:49] So here's something else I can, again, maybe the board won't ask this, but if it is, they don't ask it now, they'll ask it by, you know, once we're into the year.
[34:57] is that obviously we had a method in place for, you know, millennia of where, you know, running short in one account.
[35:07] How are we balancing it? We'd always hear about, well, they're freezing this kind of expenditure, they're not allowing.
[35:12] You know, I think a lot of it always fell on Angela's. He couldn't go ahead with certain projects until we knew if we were going to be good or not.
[35:18] How will the presence of the non-lapsing impact that process?
[35:23] Yeah, I think like I said, first of all, it depends on the size of the deficit, and you know,
[35:29] clearly, but I'm talking about like the normal functioning that, you know, what you've been here for,
[35:32] okay, a year or four, but so Terry's been here a little bit longer than that and Mike, I don't know
[35:37] to you either. How will this affect that process which we've always done to try to work within the
[35:44] money we got? I think, I think just generally, I think maintenance will hold off just as a matter of
[35:51] history where I think if there have been deficits, I think that they can like kind of
[35:56] delay projects or maybe forego a project that they were planning on doing.
[36:01] So there's that option, you know, we look at any other funding opportunities,
[36:07] grants, or anything to offset the expense. But I think my always first preference is to handle it
[36:14] within the category because I can do that per the policy.
[36:19] Anything between categories is where we need to come to you guys
[36:23] for approval and ask.
[36:25] But I would try to see what in the category
[36:29] where we have some leeway and then reevaluated there,
[36:34] how much extra we need and then potentially just say,
[36:36] what can we delay without hurting the implementation
[36:41] of the project to kind of see where we're at?
[36:43] And then as it's the emergency stuff that really in May and it's that
[36:48] Perts us the things that we don't anticipate happening that come with big price tags
[36:54] I mean every year it seems to be something when you have
[36:58] 17 buildings and some aging buildings and
[37:03] And those are the things and then winter
[37:07] There's no removal again.
[37:11] To me the key I think is we're going to keep the same process.
[37:14] You're still working through the money that we were budgeted, that we approved.
[37:18] That's our priori.
[37:19] It's not dipping into this immediately.
[37:22] So, like again, I don't know if that will get asked but I just thought it would be good to.
[37:26] We can jump on in front of that.
[37:27] I think Frank said it the best.
[37:29] We would wait to queue three before we would look to the non-lapsing again.
[37:33] Unless there was some major, well, if there was a major, something collapsed in a group
[37:41] of, you know, we had a major flood at a school and we needed $800,000 for clean up and repair.
[37:48] Yeah.
[37:48] I mean, then for another $400,000 or snow remodeling, because we're not going to be able to
[37:54] navigate, you know, unanticipated snow remodeling or we're pretty much on budget with everything
[38:01] else and over in transportation, we can pull for that because that's not that's not building
[38:07] a cliff that's recovering for a cut. But we'll I think we have to be very careful when
[38:15] we build this year's budget is that what we're asking for again, there's not a lot to cut
[38:23] anymore. We're trying to just stay with our contractual increases and then what we anticipate
[38:30] for increased costs from vendors and supplies and other things.
[38:37] So, I mean, we're trying to find money everywhere.
[38:41] Yeah.
[38:42] I could say that IT looks at programs people are using.
[38:46] There was like, you know, just something where we had this, you know,
[38:50] program through Anthem.
[38:52] I hope that we asked for utilization.
[38:54] It wasn't being utilized, so we cut that.
[38:56] Yeah.
[38:57] That's 43,000. It's it's it's um so we're but I think it's good to try to work within your
[39:03] budget first. That's yeah my point mine mine is not a micro question it's really the macro
[39:09] that the process will remain the same yeah and and I think it's good that we're saying out front
[39:13] this really doesn't become a discussion barring an actual you know structural emergency
[39:19] this is really going to be where we start thinking about it in Q3 and that's where I think the board
[39:24] As a whole needs to be on board with that because we can't think about this when we're doing the budget in January
[39:31] That we have this money out there
[39:34] Because that that's a that's cliff money that is this I think they would I think that's
[39:41] Though we've always resisted it because we were afraid that the board of finance would do it that way
[39:45] There's no commentary when we were talking about class size as if um, you're you're right. You're right
[39:52] That's what gets me work.
[39:53] That's a good reminder.
[39:54] Which is that.
[39:55] And that also came from a public.
[39:56] Yeah.
[39:57] But if that comes up, I will be admittedly that I will have to say that I'm against because
[40:04] well, and the policy is against it.
[40:05] Yes.
[40:06] But you know, the policy is very clear about that.
[40:08] So it's not an allowable use now.
[40:11] Obviously, one of the policy passes and also I can imagine some public saying, well, you can
[40:18] change the policy.
[40:19] true, but the board doesn't want to, you know, this is put in there for that reason.
[40:23] Yeah, we don't want to build. No. No, that was one of the things that...
[40:27] That's physically your response. You and Jeff and Jen, but
[40:31] you especially were so good about that with the COVID money. You know, it wasn't something I
[40:35] had even been thinking about as much, and you were relentlessly hammering that, and it's why we were
[40:39] in so much better shape than a lot of other towns, so...
[40:43] Okay. All right, anything else on A or B?
[40:48] Thank you.
[40:49] Moving on to C, in turn, there's five and six, review of the facility address also.
[40:54] This is on the agenda, because part of the policy under facility use, I don't know
[41:01] whether the policy number, it does say that each year a report will come to the finance committee
[41:10] that includes a list of all of the organizations that used our facilities, as well as any
[41:21] network band. Looking at enclosure 6 here, excuse me with the endless who wasn't able to
[41:28] be here right now, I was informed that there were no rankings before this, there was no organizations
[41:34] that were banned this past fiscal year.
[41:37] Right.
[41:38] Okay.
[41:38] No one banned our new online system for reservations
[41:43] and our new ability to pay that's, you know,
[41:48] through credit card and all everything's working really well.
[41:52] Excellent.
[41:53] Yeah. Now within closure five,
[41:54] this technically was not part of the policy,
[41:57] but Jen, I did ask that Frank and Angela
[42:01] list provide this and it is part of the quarterly reporting because these numbers are baked in there
[42:07] obviously but I thought it would be interesting to see you know the breakdown of this so we see
[42:16] that there was the processing fees so we charge a fee for using your credit card correct
[42:25] and then we pay a processing fee for using them.
[42:30] So it looks like we are off here.
[42:32] So it's something that I don't know if you guys want to look at adjusting that fee.
[42:36] So we're more accurately covering.
[42:38] I mean, it's a small amount of money and the scheme of things.
[42:41] But if we're going to charge a fee for processing, we might as well be charging a fee that covers the cost.
[42:49] Sure. Not to make money. Yeah. So if there's a way to look at that. And then with the revenue,
[42:58] so you have the building use fee. And then in some instances, you have custodial fees.
[43:05] So that's reflected here. And then I did ask for the offset of what it cost. So it looks like we're
[43:13] very close to being accurate on our revenue versus O2 expenses.
[43:19] Would you agree, Frank? Yes.
[43:22] So my guess would be on the difference. It all depends on who covered the overtime.
[43:30] If somebody that's more makes a higher salary, so that's probably where you get those differences.
[43:36] Yeah. But as we can see here, we're not getting rich off this. We never have.
[43:41] been pretty consistent with years past and, you know, looking at the list of
[43:49] insurgents and there's a good amount of organizations that are, you know, using our property.
[43:58] And I did ask that he break it down if you can see the classification. So in the regs and the rates
[44:05] it shows nonprofit out of town and residential organizations. So you can see the breakdown of that.
[44:15] And the nonprofit just to be clear are verified 501c3 organizations that show their
[44:23] proof. And I do know they check on that.
[44:29] And out of just wondering because I sent you the question
[44:32] and probably I should have sent it too much sooner. How many of these would you estimate are not paying
[44:37] the full fee? Very few. I did have I printed because it wasn't part of the original enclosure,
[44:44] but I did have a list. Yeah, there's you have the folks that do the bulk.
[44:54] So if they're going to be
[44:56] a folk hours rental right and
[45:00] They pay up front prior to the first day they step in. They get a 25% this contest. I think it's a great idea. It's not a lot, but it is appreciated by the organizations. And again, they just pay up front. And then in one instance, we had one of the organizations needed a little bit more time beyond that. And they pay for their additional time as well.
[45:29] So, with regard to Sturgisfield, the varsity softball field, or Ludlover, Ludbo, is that
[45:39] not controlled by the Parks and Rec?
[45:41] Yeah.
[45:41] It is.
[45:42] Right.
[45:43] Okay.
[45:43] So, we're a fairfield, little league girl softball, 10,000, so that's for like Osborne Hill.
[45:52] No, those are also.
[45:53] If it was a board.
[45:54] No, that could be, and I could ask, that could be, I don't know if they do anything
[45:58] indoors. Yeah, but they probably they're in the fall. Yeah, it could be that kind of stuff.
[46:05] Okay. All right. Yeah, I was just curious because I mean, that's obviously a field-based program
[46:17] whereas Fairfield American must not use our facilities. I mean, indoor.
[46:26] Yeah, because the piece so much smaller. Yeah, this is interesting though. Like,
[46:30] Connecticut Fury, that's the travel softball, 1900. What softball fields do we control?
[46:45] I could check they could be using ward. That would be my guess.
[46:48] Maybe that could be using ward's field. Okay. I was just curious. Yeah.
[46:54] Because in case any question comes up.
[47:00] And it may not be just for games. They could be doing,
[47:03] you know, a summer camp. So for example, the Southern Connecticut Church of Christ,
[47:08] That's the, that's the vault pricing that they agree to long-term. Okay, so when you see a number
[47:13] like that, we see it led by Christ greater than the youth orchestra. Same thing. Okay.
[47:22] Fairville County Children's Choir. We heard from them. Yeah. Children's Choir.
[47:28] Okay.
[47:29] I think this is helpful. I do too. I mean, we try to just be realistic with everyone based on
[47:35] their
[47:37] category really and we don't
[47:41] So be consistent. That's it. So that no one feels as if somebody's getting preference over any
[47:46] Yes, overall has the policy
[47:51] Worked in terms of given the guidance that was needed. Yeah, is there anything in there that you would
[47:57] Recommend to policy that needs to be tweaked or that you've got questions that you
[48:01] No, no
[48:04] Well, I wouldn't change anything happy. We had the way I ran different meetings or obviously on this or
[48:12] Wait some time. Yeah, I ended in a good way. Okay payment for people pay after okay
[48:18] So I just just so we know on this you'll look at the custodial revenue doesn't line up with
[48:23] What this enclosure five is it's slightly off but again some of that because enclosure five has run purely off the fiscal year
[48:30] And this is showing payments that could have come in
[48:34] Oh, that repayment. Okay. Yeah. So we did see that it's a minor difference, but in case
[48:40] that question were never come up. Yeah. And I can amend that to, to, like I said, it's
[48:46] all data and mueness. It's not like I'd be changing any numbers. Yeah. So I can just update
[48:52] it with that different view.
[48:57] What's the PhD group?
[49:03] They're in here for 40,000.
[49:07] We will, they are. It's a great question. They're good. We're good renters. Yes, they are.
[49:13] Maybe they're a... Would you say that we're about maxed out for rentals?
[49:19] Or... Well, I think it's hard because like I had someone reach out to me the other day and ask
[49:23] it for some gym time in the winter. My refer to them the marium. And you know, with parks and
[49:30] rack and also they're not included. Of course, so they do use a lot of gym time and things
[49:37] like that in the summertime. I mean, in the winter time, they're all their stuff. So
[49:42] I think we're, I know at the high schools what we control, yeah, we are pretty much maxed
[49:48] them. Yeah, and I think there may be some opportunity. I don't want to promise anyone.
[49:59] That's
[50:00] or first year, next year when Gina has the opportunity
[50:05] to have the additional turf, so there may be,
[50:08] that may open up some evening rental of the main stadium.
[50:13] I don't know, or that just may give more consistent time
[50:18] to FYF or whomever, okay, I don't know.
[50:22] So if that's gonna be something,
[50:23] I will have to wait the first season
[50:26] and then go to Gina and say, hey,
[50:27] Yeah. Well, I know FYF, since RLS opened, uses that field heavily for their home practices
[50:34] and games, but that's controlled by Parks and Rec, which is why it's not reflected
[50:37] in its numbers.
[50:40] So I think the one thing I would say is, you know, for the finance team and
[50:50] working with Angeles and Mike, just to monitor the rates and if you feel that they're acceptable,
[50:55] I mean, obviously we have to strike a balance because we want people to use, be able to use our facilities,
[51:02] but also we don't want them worn out, you know, and I don't think there's any amount we could
[51:09] charge to cover in theory that hypothetical wearing out, because honestly this revenue isn't
[51:17] going into a separate holding account, you know. No, but when these, you know, we have new turf going
[51:23] that ward. We're going to be replacing turf at Ludlow and Ward as well. The turf hourly
[51:30] rate is going to reflect that in the foot. New stuff. Okay. Obviously. Absolutely. Because
[51:37] we know that it's at a premium and we should not be as taxpayers of the town just giving
[51:45] it away at a low rate. Yeah. When we know it's and that's something we already subtly adjusted
[51:50] in the right. We're going to continue to do that, but new turf comes with new price.
[51:56] But that was what I wanted. The categories have not proven because that was
[52:02] where policy twisted into pretzels on those categories. That's still working well.
[52:08] Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Item D changed to the 401A trustee,
[52:17] and closures seven and eight and I'll just give a little brief update here from the B.O.E.
[52:25] Frank had come to Jen a while back about some changes to the plan and what not and had requested
[52:36] that he wanted to meet with somebody from board of finance and you know the the towns contracted
[52:41] person who handled the 401A. Again, this is not the pension, this is the 401A. So this is the
[52:49] benefits for people that are not qualified for a pension, some are in the union, etc.
[52:57] And Frank had asked just for somebody from the board, so Jen had you had asked me if I would
[53:03] liais on to this. So we have only kind of come together twice. They're not formal official committee
[53:10] meetings or anything it's really just to try and kind of get on the same page and what Frank is
[53:16] bringing forth today is something that fruit that came out of this discussion and some of this
[53:23] stuff that Frank is trying to tackle has been in the years making that it's I want to I'm just going
[53:34] to say so I think that can was kind of kicked down the road and requests were made and nothing was
[53:39] done from our side. So Frank, I give him credit for stepping in here and saying, okay, let's
[53:45] look at this and talk to them and figure it out. This, just to be clear, is not a board function.
[53:53] So the board does not manage the pensions that people are on that side.
[53:59] But hey, this is a very new discussion. That's by the teachers are under the state pension, all the
[54:03] other ones are under the town pension and everyone else qualifies. It's important to delineate
[54:09] that there is a town side defined benefits for a one plan and there's one for the board.
[54:17] That is something that may lead to future discussions on the others. There's any collaboration
[54:23] there or consolidation possible. But really what happened was there was some money
[54:31] sitting in the thing from forfeitures from people that did not vest. So the board contributes up
[54:37] to a certain percentage. But if you don't vest, they don't get to keep that money when they leave
[54:42] and that money stays in there. So the trustee is responsible for ensuring how that money is
[54:48] you know, properly spent and fiduciary responsibilities and Courtney is still listed as the trustee.
[54:55] So the idea that Frank's going to bring forward and at the advice of council and the plan
[55:03] Yeah, is that we name the trustees that we're going to talk about here in title, not in name, so that if this person in the title changes position changes, we don't have to go through all this again.
[55:17] And that has to be a voting item.
[55:20] Yeah, that administrative change.
[55:22] Yes, but if we if we started by saying this isn't a board.
[55:26] No, but trustee assignment.
[55:28] OK, so, but if we assign, for example,
[55:31] the superintendent, the director of human resources,
[55:34] the director of finance, then when those people know I get that to come back to them.
[55:39] Yeah, we've been doing that in policy.
[55:40] A lot of pulling names out of policies like for title nine and all that stuff.
[55:44] But what we don't do as the board is get involved with
[55:48] the management of the fund or who contributes what that's that's not a
[55:51] board function. Okay. Turn it over to Frank. Yeah. No, I think that's a very
[55:56] good summary. Doing a quite title. So that way, you essentially don't have to
[56:01] vote on this. I don't want to make any kind of title, but who's the trustee? And I
[56:05] just anticipated that people say, well, does the trustee do so that's why just
[56:09] yeah, there's a lot of those are responsible. Yeah.
[56:15] So it'll just help us
[56:16] would turn over. It's more than an administrative item with the plan that our attorney recommended
[56:22] that we have. The backup here is a blank coffee. For the meeting on September 8, it will be filled
[56:29] out. Even though we're being appointed by name, we still have to sign. Even though we're being
[56:34] appointed by title, we still have to sign, but we'll be appointed by title. And then after it's
[56:39] voted on, then Katie Flynn will just kind of outfill in this stuff. Katie Flynn will just have to
[56:47] So my one question is, is that it had come up in Mike in conversation of executive director of human resources.
[56:56] You had talked about that possibly being a director.
[56:59] I mean, I ended up, we ended up with an executive director.
[57:03] I don't know, overly behind the scenes, but the big difference.
[57:06] I just know that that was something you had brought up.
[57:09] So the, the, you're comfortable with these titles.
[57:11] Yes.
[57:11] Okay.
[57:15] Okay.
[57:18] And this is planning for a one and done. Yeah, I would say so. Well, I don't know, whatever, if I, if I, because I've been on the August 25th agenda and then you're not going to be here. So we pushed it off.
[57:30] Yeah, one one and I don't see why this would need to be. This is more of a contractual type.
[57:36] That's an administrative thing, yeah.
[57:38] Yeah.
[57:38] And right now we don't have a name to trustee.
[57:42] And we should probably have one.
[57:43] Yes.
[57:44] Okay.
[57:45] Okay.
[57:46] Because it's named was courty.
[57:51] Got it.
[57:53] Okay.
[57:54] Okay.
[57:55] So see here.
[57:58] Discussion of possible dialogue changes.
[58:03] Unfortunately, the chair of this committee apparently had to leave.
[58:05] I do see her on there.
[58:06] No one is on. Okay. This then and I are a bylaws committee, which is chair by Jan Jacobson. It's an advisory committee formed by the board to look at the bylaws and we are in the process of putting together a whole slew of edits to bring before the board this fall
[58:29] to clean up the document and make it more applicable to have the operating.
[58:37] This has been requested of all the committees to see if there's any way in from the committees.
[58:44] I think you and I are already on the advisory committee and we have brought forth to our advisory
[58:49] committee.
[58:50] What we think, one of the things is creating somewhat of a preamble to all of the committees.
[58:58] So all of the regular business and minutia are handled before and then each committee has
[59:04] listed what their charge is, which is pretty much focused on the purpose part of the statement.
[59:12] And to me, it would be really helpful if Terry Frank and Mike took a look because
[59:17] if there's anything in there that, and I say this because I've been on this committee for less
[59:21] than a year.
[59:25] So I look at this and think, well, that's kind of a description of what we have done,
[59:29] but if there's a way to improve that, or to... Yeah, and right now the purpose of this committee is
[59:35] just two points here. Right. So that's the wording, because everything before it is going to get
[59:43] pulled out.
[59:46] Yeah, and you don't have to, to putting you on the spot here, you don't have to
[59:49] answer this immediately right now. I mean, we are, we're later today. We are meeting, we are meeting
[59:55] tonight. So if you do have any input for, for the purpose
[1:00:00] So the finance and budget committee shall be as follows, portion. If you could get that to one of us to bring forth tonight to the advisory committee, that would be awesome. We're also continuing to meet into September. So if something occurs to you later, again, I think this was decently put together, but all three of you know better than I do what the role of this committee has been. So if there's something that you think this really should be noted in there.
[1:00:28] One topic I've, because this is a topic that came up with the curriculum committee,
[1:00:34] do you see any role, and I don't?
[1:00:37] Any role that voting would be a support as in finance committee, that we are, in other
[1:00:43] words, putting our stamp on saying, we support how you're approaching this or anything like
[1:00:51] that.
[1:00:52] I don't think it's been a big deal here.
[1:00:54] It's been a bigger deal, I think, in other committees.
[1:00:57] certainly happened in policy we do vote but I think voting things out of
[1:01:03] committee is helpful when it gets to the board that there's consensus of the
[1:01:11] committee and if they did there I mean you have two big purposes here yeah that I
[1:01:18] think you're saying, hey, we did our part. We're in support of X or Y, and we're behind
[1:01:31] it. You know, what was frustrating, as you mentioned, and some other committees is
[1:01:35] where someone would be very much in support of something at the committee level, and then
[1:01:42] and voted against it at the board table so then it's almost as if why are we sitting
[1:01:49] and going through all this at the committee?
[1:01:53] And so that's why I raise that as an idea because it definitely has not in my experience
[1:01:59] here have been part of the role here and no and I originally am the one that formed this
[1:02:05] committee years ago and the bylaws have proposed it and you know Christine at the time as chair
[1:02:10] We didn't feel that the fruit of these meetings was really
[1:02:17] a two, like, what do we vote on?
[1:02:19] That we vote to approve how Frank is going to bring for it,
[1:02:21] the Q4 before it.
[1:02:24] I don't know if that's an appropriate, like, you know what I mean?
[1:02:27] But I, I don't know how we, maybe vote when necessary,
[1:02:31] or when asked, or I don't know.
[1:02:35] I think one of the things just, you know, because...
[1:02:39] Well, I like that idea of when asked.
[1:02:40] Yeah.
[1:02:41] Yeah, I like that. Yeah, possibly as you know, you know, something suggested. Yeah. I mean number two here, you know, the committee to explore research and vet. I was maybe instead of vet, but initiate new finance and budget related ideas.
[1:03:06] Because I'm really excited where this committee and some of the things that the opportunity
[1:03:11] we have here with Frank and Terry, you know, bringing forth fresh and new ideas on how
[1:03:19] we report out how we, you know, just do business and it's great.
[1:03:27] And I think it has been, it's definitely been helpful to me to see, you know, the work of
[1:03:31] the committee and I think we give decent feedback in terms of what's going to help the board
[1:03:35] better understand. They both have a great understanding in anticipating some of the things that the
[1:03:45] Tom will ask and the Tom will care about, you know, especially having the experience on the
[1:03:52] Yeah. I have less insight for that one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And if there is anything that I
[1:04:00] ever think that they want to know, I just kind of will reach out to the board of finance.
[1:04:05] Parents say, Hey, this is what's being discussed. Yeah. So, you know, I always check with my first
[1:04:11] since it's kind of another board, but yeah. But so it's just the final thing. So if anything
[1:04:18] occurs to you for these two things just to be really clear and transparent about what our
[1:04:23] role is if something occurs to you, hopefully within the next month, but just let us know.
[1:04:29] Or if you think there's something here that's inaccurate. To me, it looks pretty good. It feels
[1:04:33] like this is what we've been doing, but and then maybe I'll try to work on something that
[1:04:41] I'll put it on to the spreadsheet for our next bilomity. That somehow incorporates that idea of
[1:04:46] voting when necessary or when requested so and the hard part about that is
[1:04:54] going to be I want to be clear voting can never stop something. The finance
[1:05:01] committee can't vote say we don't like what's in the queue for I mean that's a
[1:05:05] silly example for here but like if the board chair whoever the board chair is has
[1:05:10] requested something on the agenda no subcommittee should be able to stop that.
[1:05:18] No, I think policy should be included in that.
[1:05:23] Policy members can vote, this has come up in policy.
[1:05:27] That things have been stopped because I didn't want to barrel ahead.
[1:05:30] Where it was clear there was going to be a one two vote on something.
[1:05:36] So it stopped it for the purposes of keeping working through it.
[1:05:40] But if it were requested, I don't think any subcommittee of three,
[1:05:43] a minority of the board should be able to stop something.
[1:05:46] I understand that because it was requested for the administration.
[1:05:51] That could be the case. Yeah.
[1:05:53] Okay.
[1:05:53] All right.
[1:05:55] So the last item F is discussion and class size amendment.
[1:06:01] Miss Cannelli and said at the last BOE meeting or the June BOE meeting
[1:06:07] that the first September meeting would be a first read, right?
[1:06:12] First read, Mrs. Jacobson's amendment that she came up with at the very end of that process in June and the facilities committee was asked to look at building utilization and provide any available space or if in the case we are over using a building.
[1:06:41] So the Facilities Committee continues to work on that and I will turn it over to Mrs.
[1:06:47] Kamali here for the financial impact this template that she came up with to discuss.
[1:06:56] Yeah so I unfortunately was not clear when I shared this with Frank that I'd hope to have
[1:07:00] everything filled in so but the only part that Frank can't fill in is the actual number of sections
[1:07:06] impacted which I can readily look that up myself so I don't need you to be going into the
[1:07:11] enrollment arrays. I just needed the dollar amount. Yeah. And then I can look that up. And then if
[1:07:16] you're okay with it, well, let me start with that. What would be the... So the number that I
[1:07:22] calculated just looked at, I looked at the teachers that were recently hired for the new sections and I
[1:07:27] took their average salary and included Medicare because they don't pay the Social Security portion
[1:07:35] of employment taxes. Dental and health insurance premiums at the district would be liable for. And
[1:07:41] the total of all those comes to $1.24, $9.87 per teacher.
[1:07:47] Oh, wait, what was the sense?
[1:07:48] 99 cents.
[1:07:49] Okay.
[1:07:50] So what was up, $1.24?
[1:07:51] You could just do $1.24, $9.88.
[1:07:54] Okay, we'll go around to $1.24, $9.88.
[1:07:57] I just have a question.
[1:07:58] And so we're talking a little right now
[1:08:01] about the financial impact if we made this,
[1:08:03] if this amendment number four passes.
[1:08:06] That's correct.
[1:08:07] because, all right, so I'm going to just throw out there. It's an easy million, million,
[1:08:14] million one because with the current, we're looking at the, with Dr. with Mr. Krasnoff's
[1:08:22] amendment already that has passed and applying it to, if this passes, just as we stand today,
[1:08:30] or yesterday, end of day, yesterday, or we would have eight more sections at the elementary
[1:08:36] than what we budgeted.
[1:08:38] Eight more than we have as of now.
[1:08:41] That would be on top of the five sections.
[1:08:45] I'm sorry, are we ready?
[1:08:47] Okay, so things have changed
[1:08:49] because when I looked at the numbers on August 11th
[1:08:52] from the Friday packet,
[1:08:53] or whatever that came out,
[1:08:55] the Friday packet numbers.
[1:08:57] I believe it was based on this amendment.
[1:09:02] It would have been five additional sections on top of
[1:09:05] where it stood that day.
[1:09:07] Yeah, so looking at it, K-2, we would be opening another second grade at Burr.
[1:09:13] Well, the left here, I have everyone here.
[1:09:18] So I have, we would be adding a Kindergarten and second grade at Burr.
[1:09:24] Kindergarten, not yet, we're at 20 all the way across, but if one more's walked in the door.
[1:09:30] Because there's three sections.
[1:09:32] There's three sections.
[1:09:32] Yeah.
[1:09:33] Yeah.
[1:09:33] If that had been only two sections, 20 would have triggered a new section.
[1:09:37] Right.
[1:09:39] But there's three.
[1:09:40] No.
[1:09:41] Because for next year, if Mrs. Jacobson's amendment passed, the class size would go to 21.
[1:09:50] We would be two within, which would trigger another section.
[1:09:53] Total.
[1:09:54] Total.
[1:09:54] Total two within.
[1:09:55] So 63 is like...
[1:09:58] It would have to get to 61.
[1:09:58] It would have to get to 61.
[1:09:59] It would have to get to 61.
[1:09:59] It would have to get to 61.
[1:10:00] No, it would have to get to 61.
[1:10:01] No, it would have to get to 61.
[1:10:03] as of the Friday packet, it was at 61.
[1:10:07] Somebody might have changed.
[1:10:08] So that may have changed, yeah, as of the 17th.
[1:10:13] Okay.
[1:10:14] Maybe somebody didn't change, couldn't, I don't know,
[1:10:18] maybe somebody left.
[1:10:19] Is there a way to get a printout of that
[1:10:20] for the facilities, can we do later today as well?
[1:10:23] Yeah, okay.
[1:10:24] Of what Mike's looking at, yes.
[1:10:25] Yeah, so what we definitely would have a second grade there,
[1:10:28] because they're all at 21.
[1:10:32] And we'd be teeter in fifth grade, but not quite there because they're all at 23.
[1:10:38] So the second grade, for sure, ever would open.
[1:10:42] We would open a first grade and a second grade at Holland Hill, what are those numbers
[1:10:53] now?
[1:10:53] 61 in first grade and 62 in second grade.
[1:10:57] So these have gone up since this and we would be also opening a fifth grade at Holland hill at 70
[1:11:05] Wow, yep, then we would be opening at Jennings. We would be opening a first a second and a fifth
[1:11:13] Yeah, that I had so there's three so are those numbers at Jennings still 43 42 and 47
[1:11:19] Yeah, so I got
[1:11:21] And then we would be opening a first grade at Mill Hill. That's still in 63
[1:11:27] 62 so someone dropped okay, and then we would be
[1:11:33] That's all like that as a glass
[1:11:37] Yeah, yeah, that's eight. That's eight
[1:11:40] So that's eight more and we're already over five. So that's be a total 13 new sections
[1:11:47] In our 11 elementary thought and it's actually not in our 11 elementary schools. It's concentrated to four elementary schools
[1:11:57] So, yeah, and I can tell you that at the hotel has room for that.
[1:12:04] No, I know. I just tell you for a fact, they don't.
[1:12:06] I mean, there's a lot that's looked at this.
[1:12:07] And we're going to look at it for today.
[1:12:09] Jennings does.
[1:12:09] Jennings doesn't.
[1:12:10] And all right.
[1:12:11] It on paper, it looks like there are the classrooms available.
[1:12:16] But because of special, special Ed and special programming,
[1:12:20] that we are obliged to provide.
[1:12:24] And we can't just say, oh, move a CLC from this school to this, but it's not just that easy.
[1:12:29] That's not the board's prerogative.
[1:12:32] That's also called it redistricting.
[1:12:33] Well, that would be redistricting.
[1:12:36] But the problem is, and we're going to talk about the facilities, when we look at these impacts,
[1:12:43] we don't have the room now to redistrict to make it work.
[1:12:48] So until Dwight comes on and Jennings comes on and the discussion on Jennings is going
[1:12:54] to have to be adding space, regardless.
[1:12:57] Yeah.
[1:12:58] And I think that, I mean, for me, that would be the time to really holistically look at
[1:13:05] true class size change and redistricting because then you could then you could make meaningful
[1:13:11] impacts on class sizes if you had the space, but we don't have the space right now.
[1:13:15] And my question is, this amendment came before the board prior to Mr.
[1:13:22] Krasnoff's amendment passed. So take that time. It didn't. This was Mr. Krasnoff's passed.
[1:13:28] And this one was offered on the floor. This was not submitted ahead of time.
[1:13:33] Because my question is, absent Mr. Krasnoff's amendment, lowering from 25 to 24 and three to five
[1:13:42] gets us what is what are we accomplished by doing?
[1:13:48] I think the idea always has
[1:13:50] been well yeah 24 versus 25 doesn't make a big difference but the idea is
[1:13:55] when you lower it you're gonna have more often sections of 17. Well without
[1:14:01] Mr. Krabson also men may it doesn't have any impact on those grades because they
[1:14:11] Yeah, so I mean when you look at the numbers, it I think the intent of that amendment that passed worked and in some schools, it's it's put us in a bit of a bind.
[1:14:25] Yeah, Ed Stratfield, they are going to be very tight on space. I know they wanted those class sizes, so I'm sure those parents are going to, you know, understand any potential sacrifice for space there.
[1:14:41] because the class sizes, we're important everybody across the district, but the whole idea
[1:14:47] being dismissed about art going on a cart, etc. becomes a real possibility in some of these
[1:14:56] an absent Mr. Krasnoff's amendment.
[1:15:00] Those eight sections only in both K-2 and 3-5 only materialized to one new section. So as of the first grade agenics, there's one at 22. So absent his amendment, lowering to 21 and lowering to 24 only really affects one school and one grade level. That is it. So eight sections as of right now, as of today, as of yesterday's enrollment.
[1:15:29] I think that's what we had on top of the five, the five.
[1:15:32] I thought it was six, it was five.
[1:15:34] I can vary from the budget to where we are now.
[1:15:39] 208, 208.
[1:15:40] So that was all in, I think it was eight.
[1:15:44] That would have been a budget savings.
[1:15:47] If we didn't have, if we didn't have the amendment.
[1:15:50] I'm showing we budget in 199.
[1:15:52] No, that's what, that's what the project.
[1:15:55] The project that we had a couple.
[1:15:57] the budget was what? 203. 203. Okay, so we're 5 over. We're 5 over the 203, which is,
[1:16:05] which is... Are we still in the 208 today? That was as a yesterday when I looked.
[1:16:11] So, let me just double-check his last men of registration. It's always folks.
[1:16:16] Yeah, but they're not triggering his men than anymore. That's it now. Yeah, and that's the kind of the
[1:16:23] behind the scenes making us a sausage thing that the board does not usually see and it's
[1:16:28] a good reason for it because it's you know going up and down. And again you're also talking
[1:16:33] about finding furniture, getting the materials. Yeah the 999. Yeah we're still at 208. So if we
[1:16:42] from the projections were nine above the projections, thank God we didn't budget based on the projections
[1:16:47] And then we would be 17 above this past over the projections.
[1:16:53] Okay, so just using this template, really quick.
[1:16:58] So we're talking about eight additional sections on top of where we are right now,
[1:17:04] which is already five over budget.
[1:17:07] So if we were looking at eight times 120 for 988,
[1:17:16] We're at 999.904, then add the five sections that we're already over.
[1:17:30] That's an additional 624.940, which we're over.
[1:17:35] So instead of the 624, which were already over, it would really be over by 1.624,
[1:17:48] including
[1:17:49] what's already been done, plus. So right now we're 600, we're roughly 600 over.
[1:17:56] Right. And I just, in terms of being transparent with the numbers, his impact is more than five sections.
[1:18:02] There would have been, because I think there were, how many sections were added because of his amendment.
[1:18:08] Four. No. Well, no. One night, because if projected was one night. One of them, you had already triggered.
[1:18:17] But I'm not, I'm counting that as that's part of it. It was triggered ultimately because we were guessing the amendment would come into play and it did.
[1:18:24] But I think the total impact of his amendment was eight or nine, wasn't it?
[1:18:29] It would be nine if you go off the one nine or nine.
[1:18:32] We have not off the budget.
[1:18:34] No, no, no, I recognize that, but what I'm talking about from the lens of the town,
[1:18:39] we would have had that would have been a budget surplus right now.
[1:18:44] That could have been used as part of the overall management of the district.
[1:18:48] So the cost of his amendment is nine times this.
[1:18:52] That doesn't mean that's not the same thing as the budget impact because why nine?
[1:18:58] Nine new sections were created
[1:19:01] compared to what?
[1:19:04] Compared to what they would have been without his amendment. We would have had a surplus of FTE
[1:19:11] So we would have had I don't understand if we budgeted 203 and we only filled 199
[1:19:16] Right, what we would have had a surplus. We would have had half a million dollars surplus in but we were over regardless of his amendment
[1:19:24] That's why we budgeted higher.
[1:19:26] The projections were off.
[1:19:27] We know the projections are off.
[1:19:29] Okay, but I'm not the cost of his, I'm trying to just have a simple bottom line, the cost
[1:19:35] of his amendment was nine new sections.
[1:19:38] Therefore the cost of his amendment was nine times one twenty four.
[1:19:43] That's the cost of his amendment.
[1:19:45] If it hadn't been, if without the amendment, we would not have had to pay for nine additional
[1:19:52] FTE.
[1:19:54] that does not the budget would have had less nine less sections without
[1:19:58] his amendment forget the budget we would have had less sections than we budgeted
[1:20:04] based on enroll actual enroll now he always I don't follow that that makes no
[1:20:10] sense to me we we we budgeted for 203 we don't we may not have we probably would
[1:20:16] not have needed we wouldn't have needed 203 but we budgeted 203 yes we would
[1:20:21] of. The actuals would have been lower than two. What were the actuals last year?
[1:20:32] What were
[1:20:32] the last fiscal? What was last school year as actuals? Because then we're not adding
[1:20:38] because we would have had the staff. So what he was always speaking of at the board table
[1:20:42] and the data he provided was what is the impact beyond what we budgeted? And that was right
[1:20:48] it and it came in right where he estimated it was, which is he said four to five sections.
[1:20:53] that's where it came in, above the budget.
[1:20:57] But in point of fact, if you're the town looking at this,
[1:21:01] the cost of his amendment is the total number
[1:21:04] of new sections added due to his amendment.
[1:21:08] That's not the cost of the amendment.
[1:21:11] But his amendment didn't necessarily cause
[1:21:14] any sections to trigger in those overages.
[1:21:16] Those could have been based on, we would have-
[1:21:20] Do you see what I'm saying is?
[1:21:22] No, all of them were, because none of them were, because anything that went, you know,
[1:21:27] if you had three sections of K, that went 23, 23, 24, that's not a cause of his amendment.
[1:21:34] That is just our class size policy, triggered that new section.
[1:21:38] His amendment single-handedly were responsible for nine additional sections.
[1:21:46] Now the budget happened to cover-
[1:21:48] we were okay with class size, but because it's within two, it triggers a section. Those two never
[1:21:57] may have materialized to actually trigger a section at any point in the EI. I understand. I
[1:22:02] appreciate I'm sorry for being dumb. No, that's okay. It's two different kind of conversations. So
[1:22:07] it's just in terms of being honest about bottom line numbers.
[1:22:13] It's a cost of nine.
[1:22:14] Yeah, I'm going to try and then what Mike saying is based on this the froze amendment for it's another has up where we've already right there's eight more right there's eight more.
[1:22:27] Wow. Yeah, that means that mean one I had one, two, three, four, five, six.
[1:22:34] So they they're two, two more since I looked at this from the Friday pack at because of enrollment.
[1:22:40] I don't have a comment.
[1:22:41] Wow.
[1:22:42] Okay.
[1:22:42] Like Colin Hill, for example.
[1:22:45] How about we had none?
[1:22:46] Well, without his amendment, we only have two Ks there.
[1:22:51] Not three.
[1:22:54] Oh, yeah.
[1:22:55] Strap you've got three sections added because of the amendment.
[1:22:58] Correct.
[1:22:58] 56, 14, 14.
[1:23:00] Let's go.
[1:23:00] Foreigner Strap field hearing.
[1:23:02] Yes, I'm sorry.
[1:23:03] I'm looking at what I looked at for the amendment for.
[1:23:07] Not.
[1:23:08] I apologize for you.
[1:23:10] It's quite all right.
[1:23:11] dense there. You weren't dense. Yeah.
[1:23:16] But the bottom line is, well, facilities will do this,
[1:23:21] this work. You've projected the fiscal impact as of today is a million dollars.
[1:23:26] Million additional additional on top of the top of the finger at the top of the 600 something
[1:23:31] thousand that we've already gone over. Correct. Okay. And that's for that's not only
[1:23:38] And I'm okay with one year, I'm still with this $624,000, I'm okay with supporting that
[1:23:45] amendment as I did because I think it made a noticeable impact here.
[1:23:52] Yeah.
[1:23:52] It doesn't mean that it's going to come with some challenges that I'm confident the
[1:23:57] principle is.
[1:23:58] Your type of facility.
[1:23:59] Yeah.
[1:24:00] Now, I'm sure you will get the question at the board table.
[1:24:03] Well, where does that 624 come from?
[1:24:10] Going to come from it all over the place.
[1:24:12] So, I'm not saying because I want an answer right now.
[1:24:15] I can't answer that.
[1:24:16] And we also won't know until we're through a couple quarters of the year.
[1:24:20] Right.
[1:24:22] Right.
[1:24:22] And we won't.
[1:24:22] That doesn't mean the question won't get asked.
[1:24:24] No.
[1:24:24] And that the answer is, the answer is, we won't really know where it's going to come from.
[1:24:28] And so we get to after at least two quarters.
[1:24:31] Yeah.
[1:24:31] Yeah. Well, no, we'll know because as things pop up, we're going to try to save money
[1:24:37] because I know in the back of my mind, forget transportation.
[1:24:41] No, but what I've got $625,000. So again, if we can consolidate a position, if somebody
[1:24:46] retires or we can shift responsibilities and not fill a job and give a stipend like we
[1:24:53] did with the music sector, we're going to do those things.
[1:24:56] So your confident will be able without making some sort of detrimental impacts to students
[1:25:02] and learning, we'll be able to cover this 624. We're not going to make any impact on students
[1:25:07] in learning. I don't know if we can get all of it. Okay. Well, but we'll get the facility.
[1:25:15] Forget the facility. Forget that. That it doesn't fit in the facility. That's it. Yeah, that's it.
[1:25:19] Well, that's million would be part of the January discussion because this amendment is for 2728.
[1:25:24] So, it would be a, are we going to ask for this to be added, because we're going to
[1:25:31] deal only with actuals, we're not dealing with the projected numbers.
[1:25:33] Yes.
[1:25:34] And as a hypothetical, we would have been a million dollar ask.
[1:25:37] We also, we would have to project that for next year, obviously, the fifth grader's leaving.
[1:25:45] Everybody moving up in a new kindergarten, we'd have to go off projections for that.
[1:25:50] But we have to look at it, what it is this year.
[1:25:53] as a basis. We're doing it as a hypothetical. Hypocetically, this is what it would have been this year.
[1:25:58] So the question comes, is this something the board would want to be looking to add likely
[1:26:05] to be safe, at least a million dollars to our budget right off the bat for next year.
[1:26:12] And well, really, really one six, you know, one six, so three quarters of a percent.
[1:26:18] And then the flip side is, does it fit facilities wise and that's for the facilities committee.
[1:26:25] Right. And then the other side of the coin is does that supersede then any other asks that as a
[1:26:35] district we would have had. I mean, we didn't do it this year because of what we were anticipating.
[1:26:43] Once we heard from the town side that they were going to cut our budget, but there's still the hope to add the elementary school counselors next year.
[1:26:54] And I would rather add that than open up more sections.
[1:27:02] Okay.
[1:27:03] So.
[1:27:04] Okay.
[1:27:05] This for the notes.
[1:27:07] And I know we can ask for it all.
[1:27:10] We're not going to get it all.
[1:27:12] That's just the reality.
[1:27:13] So why ask for something and again then it becomes a contentious. Well, I think we need to ask for something that we can, that we truly think is a, if basically responsible investment.
[1:27:28] Right.
[1:27:28] In our district.
[1:27:29] Okay.
[1:27:30] Asking for say 17 more FTE.
[1:27:37] At the elementary level, really, that's because that's what we're asking for.
[1:27:41] some it could be upwards of 17.
[1:27:45] That has a budget number in year one that continues to grow.
[1:27:51] Yeah, well I think if we had the facilities for it, we could make the argument for the educational
[1:28:01] value if what it was doing was really ensuring because of the cutoffs, ensuring that we were
[1:28:07] going to have 16, 17, 18 in a class, but that doesn't do this here.
[1:28:11] It's not a guarantee, but see, that's, but that's wrong to think if we're going to lower
[1:28:16] class size, then pick a number, but that's what I'm saying.
[1:28:20] Well, pick a number and then David's amendment has to go away, yes, because you can't have
[1:28:25] two.
[1:28:26] Because then it's wrong.
[1:28:28] For example, if you're going to have 18 is your max class size for K through two, right?
[1:28:32] Then it's 18.
[1:28:33] It's just 18.
[1:28:34] And there's no adding sections at when you're too below you because then we don't that's an interesting point
[1:28:41] That's a whole different way to approach and you have to do it though, but that's because that's when I was going to make it fair
[1:28:45] We do that until we finish Jennings and
[1:28:50] Redistrate. Well, that's what you're going to see in facility. Yes. Yes. So
[1:28:54] The only way to make it fair is to just get a hard class size across the board
[1:28:59] Every grade level in elementary school at every school be the same
[1:29:03] and then there's none of this and that's I get lucky because one kid registered
[1:29:10] and now we're two below the max so we get to go down to 15 and his school and
[1:29:17] his classroom doesn't get that one extra to your three below and you stay at
[1:29:22] 20.
[1:29:28] Yeah I mean meaningful class size reduction right with science behind it. Yeah
[1:29:34] Like if we're going to do that, then if we had the science and we had the space to back
[1:29:41] it up, then I would be all for it.
[1:29:44] I would be asking.
[1:29:45] Interesting scenario at field.
[1:29:47] There are 23, 23, 22.
[1:29:50] Now 15, 16, 17.
[1:29:52] Let's see what they're saying.
[1:29:53] Next November's data presentation.
[1:29:56] Absolutely.
[1:29:57] That needs to be a snapshot comparison.
[1:29:59] And where are you?
[1:30:00] If you're saying this is all based on research, which, yeah, we have a little microcosm right here, right? Well, this is, this is going to be a great example. Like you said, I mean, because that that can be just the time and those, those cohorts. And actually, I've just strapped you know, holiday or wherever I've had impacted Osborne Hill Riverfield. You know, those microcosm cohorts. Yeah. Head's up. I think that definitely needs to be a discussion point that you're from now. That's actually going to be really interesting.
[1:30:30] trust thing. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it really will be.
[1:30:34] So here's what I'm going to ask your permission for Nick because I think you've got enough on
[1:30:39] your plate because you're working with the facility committee on their presentation.
[1:30:43] I'd like to wait until when do we receive as a board the final, here's what we've got for
[1:30:55] classes.
[1:30:58] Well, September one is the opening day. Yep. And we'll have that. I mean, the next
[1:31:05] board meeting, we can, it's obviously. Well, it's going to be on, it's part of your report.
[1:31:10] May I request that I get a copy Tuesday on that opening day only because then I want to put
[1:31:18] together a memo of years, with these actuals, here's the impact so that I have time
[1:31:26] to get it to, well, Tracy, whomever, is all of this accurate, and have that memo go
[1:31:33] in in support of the discussion of the class of the Jacobson's amendment.
[1:31:37] Yeah, that's right.
[1:31:38] Does that make sense?
[1:31:39] So I'm just using Frank's, and just a reminder, Frank, this includes salary pension and insurance.
[1:31:44] Well, salary, Medicare, employee expense, and insurance.
[1:31:49] Yeah, we don't pay towards pension.
[1:31:51] It's a real summer.
[1:31:52] It's a real fringe moment.
[1:31:53] No, I just want to make sure I'm referencing the correct thing.
[1:31:55] So, Medicare and insurance?
[1:31:59] Yeah, it's...
[1:31:59] I'm trying to keep it simple.
[1:32:00] Yeah, Medicare, Medicare tax.
[1:32:02] Medicare tax and insurance.
[1:32:03] Four or five percent of the seven.
[1:32:05] Medicare tax and insurance.
[1:32:08] Oh.
[1:32:09] No matter how stupid.
[1:32:10] Okay, Medicare.
[1:32:11] Medicare is the tax.
[1:32:13] Yeah.
[1:32:13] Yeah, okay, we don't pay social security in them.
[1:32:18] I'm a little bit.
[1:32:19] Yes.
[1:32:20] Just really quick.
[1:32:22] What was the base salary and what was the percentage of fringe?
[1:32:27] Personager for the base.
[1:32:28] How much was that for?
[1:32:30] It's, it's an average of who we've hired.
[1:32:33] So it's 84, 947, 67 is the base.
[1:32:46] I'm sorry. What was the 80 what 84 947 67
[1:32:52] divided by 124 and 88. So we're we're showing a 33%
[1:33:00] fringe. Does that sound right? Well, the fringe is really
[1:33:03] almost 50% of the salary. And then of the health insurance
[1:33:09] The health insurance is almost yeah, but I'm getting it you're it's it's showing me 30 30 32 and a half 32.1 percent French. I mean
[1:33:16] he's saying it's 50% of the salary salary is 84. Yeah, and 33% so it's 40% it's of the total it's 33% but it's half the worth of the salary
[1:33:30] Right, which so it's a 40% of the salary added to the salary gets to the total what I'm saying is that's an unrealistic number 50% French
[1:33:38] That's that's that's reality. That's what it is. Yeah. Well, that's that's nowhere near what we've ever talked about at any budget meeting. It's funny. I think actually 50% is pretty standard. What ranges have they have we talked about? It's always been at or under 30.
[1:33:53] I mean, it may just be like if you're looking at it, which is pretty common.
[1:33:59] I know for the corporation, I work where we use for grants, we use a 28 or so print.
[1:34:03] Well, that would make sense because in private, usually with the insurance is less than the
[1:34:08] employee's or contract contribution, because you usually have, like, you have a high deductible.
[1:34:12] No, plan. I mean, the numbers check out. I mean, that's the health insurance is exactly the total
[1:34:21] premiums 50,000 and that's just our cost. Total premiums close to 50. The health insurance
[1:34:28] is just, you know, you have exponential growth with it now, right? Over 10 years, it's
[1:34:34] probably doubled. And we usually have, you know, he took the actual people that were hired.
[1:34:40] So if they're all on the family plan, that's reflected in that number. He's not saying
[1:34:45] some were single, some were plus one.
[1:34:49] What I'm saying, and then you got the $84,000 plus times,
[1:34:56] 80 what, 80 what?
[1:34:58] 84,000.
[1:34:59] 947.
[1:35:00] I have 47 times 1.32 is 112.
[1:35:07] So 101.40.
[1:35:09] 40.
[1:35:10] Okay.
[1:35:10] 1.47. That should bring you close to 1.24. So we're at 47% print. Yeah. That's all in though.
[1:35:21] But that's more than that. So there's other stuff in less. Well, it's more than just, it's not.
[1:35:26] You call it a fringe, but some of you know, a fringe is every life. It's benefits. It's all the taxes.
[1:35:34] Right. So what I'm saying is we look at kinetic. There's more. I understand, but there's not.
[1:35:39] Yeah, but we're only paying phyka. So that includes unemployment, right? No, I'm just saying
[1:35:48] we have to be clear when we say Frint, when we say what that Fringe is, what it includes.
[1:35:52] It's more than phyka in benefits. Yeah. Because if someone asks because phyka in benefits, yes,
[1:35:59] that would be about my number. Yeah. But we're not including, are we including our payroll taxes?
[1:36:06] that's the FICA that's that's the one point that's five okay and then are we
[1:36:11] including any other fees that we're paying is or is that just benefits that's
[1:36:16] our benefits cost really that's right well the only other thing is life and
[1:36:19] life or disability yeah must yeah no that mine my number doesn't I think that's just
[1:36:26] health okay because they're only paying the 20 something percent premium
[1:36:31] cost share and we're paying the balance. Okay, so that's it. That's all right. We're paying a lot
[1:36:38] of money towards each employee. Yeah, we should do we do we ever provide to our bargaining units
[1:36:47] like a lot of companies do how much we paid for your for our side of your benefits. Like every year
[1:36:56] I get a letter from my employer that says you paid this much towards your benefits, we paid this much, and I look and I see how much they pay, and I'm like, whoa, no, we don't do that.
[1:37:10] Well, I think on your W2, I think it shows, I think it's box 12 or box 14.
[1:37:15] It is.
[1:37:15] Yeah, not that they're looking at it.
[1:37:17] Not that they're looking at it.
[1:37:18] But your W2 would say, does it show what we paid though?
[1:37:21] Yeah, because yeah, it shows what we paid.
[1:37:24] I don't remember ever seen that.
[1:37:25] No, I don't think it does.
[1:37:27] I probably wouldn't.
[1:37:27] I think it shows with the employee pay.
[1:37:31] Not the one.
[1:37:31] Yeah.
[1:37:32] If it's code G, like GG get.
[1:37:35] But um, well, this is interesting because,
[1:37:37] and the reason I say it, and I'm not questioning you.
[1:37:39] Yeah.
[1:37:40] I appreciate this honesty and transparency,
[1:37:42] because the number for years before you can, Mike,
[1:37:45] we were always told, oh, figure 100,000 per employee.
[1:37:50] And I always said, what is the fringe?
[1:37:53] What is the cost and they would say oh, it's that but when you really look at it
[1:37:57] It's always been higher than that. Yeah, it's always it's always been either between 1.4 to 1.6
[1:38:03] You would average in there depending on the employee
[1:38:06] What what the what to multiply the salary by 1.4 or 1 with them
[1:38:12] Thank you. Well, thank you guys for doing it actually got Medicare in there
[1:38:17] It could be if you just take I think like a base
[1:38:21] salaries, like close to 62,000. So if you apply the same math and you say almost 50% is benefits
[1:38:29] if you're assuming that just lower salary people come in, you get close to 100,000.
[1:38:34] This is what I don't think board members have fully understood over the years. When we say Mike
[1:38:40] told David figure about 85,000 for salary. He was dead on. I mean, we're in 84 and change.
[1:38:47] He said he was dead on, but what we don't properly account for when we plan these things
[1:38:53] out as board members is the true cost because the budget impact is one and a half times that
[1:39:01] salary. Correct. The only time we get that insight is when someone's trying to do an amendment
[1:39:06] on the fly at the board, we have to pause the discussion so someone can confer with you to get
[1:39:11] with the accurate number, but we don't pay attention to that.
[1:39:13] So what a starting salary of about 55 grand,
[1:39:17] I'll just tell you, in my previous district,
[1:39:20] we would always say for a first-year teacher,
[1:39:23] the cost is 85,000.
[1:39:25] Yeah, that's a little over 50%.
[1:39:26] Yeah, we would always budget 85,000 for a brand new teacher.
[1:39:30] Well, of course, if you're a lower base,
[1:39:32] the fringe is not gonna change,
[1:39:34] so it's a part of the percentage of the base.
[1:39:36] Right, you know, like Paris.
[1:39:39] Yeah.
[1:39:39] Because the cost of the benefit is...
[1:39:41] Benefits are more in ratio higher salary, that's why when we hire somebody that says I'm not taking the benefit
[1:39:48] It's a home run. I mean somebody said I'm not taking the benefits like somebody
[1:39:53] Yeah, we'll we'll have a board member say well, why are you paying that person?
[1:39:58] 130,000 dollars. Well, they're not taking the benefits. Yeah
[1:40:02] It if they want 10 20,000 even 15,000 more in salary, but without benefits here you go
[1:40:08] Yeah, it's a fraction of what it would really cost my God. Yes. And when I say the fruit of this
[1:40:14] discussion is very valuable, I think, for the long term, because really looking when we when we
[1:40:20] talk about FTE impact, we need to be for teachers. We need to be using 125,000, not 80 to 100 like we
[1:40:29] have been for years. That's what I mean. And does you have to remember that you're not going to get
[1:40:36] all rooms. Right. You run out of rookies at a certain. No, you have to budget conservative.
[1:40:41] Because when you're on this side of this school, I mean, this is, this is what you're
[1:40:45] seeing based on our recent higher. Yes. Yes. We hired all our, our actual numbers. We hired
[1:40:51] all our interns that we know more. Plus then what are you going to tell a principal? You
[1:40:55] have five candidates. You just interview. You have to choose the cheapest one. Yeah. I mean
[1:41:00] there's that used to be part of the dialogue here yeah it did 100% it was then it then not only are
[1:41:07] you making decisions that directly impact you but now I understand why I was part of the dialogue
[1:41:11] because we were using the wrong numbers and and truly if you want the true cost you also have
[1:41:17] I know you guys don't typically include it but we've spent 50,000 in news for the new sections
[1:41:24] in opening them with purchases supplies materials books what have you so far yeah right
[1:41:30] And that's just a curriculum by the instructional division.
[1:41:33] That doesn't include other ancillary class that
[1:41:37] in school have to absorb like UX tables and shares.
[1:41:41] Don't need to use these things up.
[1:41:44] That's right.
[1:41:44] Because now you have more teachers that are going to be
[1:41:46] at or something.
[1:41:47] Yeah, but that would be a hypothetical.
[1:41:49] So I can't.
[1:41:50] But desk tables, chairs, all the curriculum materials here.
[1:41:55] How much 50K 50K just in the curriculum?
[1:41:59] Yeah, so about 10,000 in classroom and curriculum materials it for an elementary class curriculum.
[1:42:04] Curriculum materials, what about desk tables and chairs?
[1:42:07] We would.
[1:42:08] Yeah, we would.
[1:42:08] We would.
[1:42:09] Those.
[1:42:11] I remember on but we should have.
[1:42:14] Stuff and storage for that because we have the number of classrooms and what we have F any.
[1:42:18] A building originally.
[1:42:19] Yeah, we buy for it that if we don't need it, you put it in central storage.
[1:42:23] So we should.
[1:42:24] There might be a class to move in but we should have the.
[1:42:26] There should be a new purchase.
[1:42:28] The seats we should have, the tables we should have,
[1:42:32] but the curriculum materials is big.
[1:42:34] That's something that we don't ever talk about.
[1:42:36] So that's another 10 grand per classroom.
[1:42:38] So is it better to refer to it as 10K?
[1:42:41] Okay.
[1:42:42] 10K per classroom.
[1:42:47] There's, I mean, cross money on the top of the fact that
[1:42:50] yeah, and it's okay because most people
[1:42:52] aren't going to realize that because why would they?
[1:42:54] Yeah, it's not their fault. Oh, I completely agree. Yeah, that's not I mean, but this is good.
[1:42:59] This is why we have this committee to dive deeper into this. And this is also I want September 8th
[1:43:05] to be we're going to have a lot, at least I hope
[1:43:08] certainly one community is going to be paying very close attention on September 8th. Yeah,
[1:43:13] the board will be full in. I want this to be a very comprehensive conversation. But it also factual.
[1:43:18] But I will come only to try and jade anyone one way or other. We're putting facts. That's the purpose of these two committees is to put the facts forward and let them tell the story and then base decisions on the facts. Right. And you can people may still want to absolutely with changing the policy if it means X. Yeah. That's their right. And if 17 FTE is something that the majority of the board votes for, then whoever's the chair is going to have that argument to make to the other town boards.
[1:43:48] I mean, I can't at least for next year, but we would the budget for it accordingly, right?
[1:43:54] So because we're already going to have to budget for more than we're projected, which we always do because the projections are always
[1:44:00] slightly low.
[1:44:02] All right, so it's going to be more complicated. Well next year we're going to have a difficult time, too, because we're not going to be able to.
[1:44:10] There's no waivers for kindergarten, either. Right. So I'm going to
[1:44:15] Well, we'll go appeal process.
[1:44:16] No, there's no waivers.
[1:44:17] It's a hard date to start kindergarten.
[1:44:20] So with that, we'll have to kind of take the average
[1:44:23] of how many waiver kids we took and try to deduct that.
[1:44:28] And hopefully we can't do it based on the actuals
[1:44:31] of the ages of the kids we have.
[1:44:33] Well, we don't know who's coming from somewhere else
[1:44:36] and where they're coming from.
[1:44:38] We know who's in our pre-case.
[1:44:40] We don't know.
[1:44:41] Yeah, I don't know.
[1:44:41] I mean, our actual kindergarteners.
[1:44:43] They're going to be going in the first grade.
[1:44:44] are going in the first place. He's talking about the kindergarten, the new kindergartners.
[1:44:48] We may have more.
[1:44:49] But I guess my point is less, less, less, no, we'll have less because they, they, we,
[1:44:54] all the ones who waived in say there was 60 waivers we granted. There's none of those coming.
[1:45:00] There won't be anybody grant you. So we'll have less kindergarten. So 16th, but we won't know where. Yeah. Oh, yeah, by building. Yeah.
[1:45:10] So what you're saying is the number on the projection for next year for kindergarten should be closer than it was this year because of that. Hopefully, I mean, we're going to need a year to see where the projections based on age five. I don't think so. I don't know how I can't. I don't know how Mike and Pat did the projections.
[1:45:32] But I'm sure they built in a little bit of a buffer of do we do a one-year update every year?
[1:45:38] Yeah, Nick and I were up for that. I can't remember for the budget book for next year. Well, we get and will we get an updated project?
[1:45:45] Yeah, project contract with I'll see if there was okay. See, I wasn't sure. I thought we took the last presentation.
[1:45:52] Yeah, that's what we keep using. Okay, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. That's going to be having impacts unknown impact.
[1:46:00] We're going to need a year to see how it's, or two to see what then the average number of kindergartners we have based on no more waivers.
[1:46:09] Okay.
[1:46:11] Well, it should really only be a one year dip because all the kids who couldn't wave in are then part of the next year's kindergarten class.
[1:46:19] So that's where I've kind of read.
[1:46:20] Right. So we'll have to see what that next year.
[1:46:22] Yeah.
[1:46:22] Yeah.
[1:46:23] It'll be a correction.
[1:46:24] It'll be a correction.
[1:46:25] Yeah, it's a correction.
[1:46:25] Yeah.
[1:46:26] All right.
[1:46:26] Anything else?
[1:46:27] I'm not a class.
[1:46:29] I'll get the September one data from.
[1:46:32] I'll probably try to make the framework of the memo in advance.
[1:46:35] So everyone sees where I'm going to plug the numbers in.
[1:46:38] Michael, get me the September one data for purposes of having it be.
[1:46:43] Here's day one opening.
[1:46:44] This is what we have.
[1:46:46] And then I will turn that right around and get that out to everybody just because I don't.
[1:46:51] So I don't want to f anything up on that, I want to make sure that it's factually accurate.
[1:46:56] The question is, I'm creating it, but who should the memo be from for purpose of the
[1:47:01] packet?
[1:47:02] Is it the finance committee?
[1:47:05] Is it Gracie as chair?
[1:47:09] You know, she would obviously, I should be seeing proofreading it too, so to sign off.
[1:47:13] But who should it be from?
[1:47:16] Or it could just be an enclosure.
[1:47:19] I don't think we can say it can be from the Finance Committee because we won't be able
[1:47:22] to meet on it.
[1:47:23] Yeah.
[1:47:25] So it could, it could just be from the chair as an enclosure.
[1:47:29] Okay.
[1:47:30] I think that would be the best.
[1:47:32] Well,
[1:47:36] I think it should come from, maybe come from you because it can't be fruit of the
[1:47:40] Finance Committee if we haven't discussed it, but we can't discuss it.
[1:47:44] Okay.
[1:47:44] We'll discuss it.
[1:47:45] It's a meeting.
[1:47:46] Yeah.
[1:47:47] I think it has to come in the board chair and it just as an informational memo to go along with, you know,
[1:47:54] It's what we said we were going to have discussed there. So
[1:47:58] Okay, I would say as right now there's two of us. So we have a quorum as acting finance committee chair
[1:48:06] I charge you. Thank you to provide that information on behalf of the committee. Okay
[1:48:28] Okay
[1:48:28] Okay.
[1:48:29] All right.
[1:48:30] Open committee comment.
[1:48:31] Any open committee comment?
[1:48:33] One comment.
[1:48:33] Yep.
[1:48:34] For the next meeting, the one thing I'm concerned about is how the budget book is going
[1:48:41] to look.
[1:48:41] I can't remember if this is normally what gets talked about there or not.
[1:48:45] But I would be hoping we can see like some mock-ups.
[1:48:51] Oh, because there's going to be changes.
[1:48:52] It's going to be because of state statute.
[1:48:54] Correct.
[1:48:55] And not only because of state statute, but one thing I know Mike referenced was that,
[1:48:59] Paris are going to be reflected very differently.
[1:49:02] Yeah, we want to try to separate out Paris a little differently when it comes to regular
[1:49:07] and especially.
[1:49:08] Right.
[1:49:08] All right.
[1:49:08] The sample pages?
[1:49:10] The sample pages, but that will involve some behind-the-scenes conversation because the
[1:49:15] more we can get that out in November and have a board presentation on it, either the end
[1:49:21] of November or December, it's going to take a lot of the January questions.
[1:49:25] Wait a minute.
[1:49:26] You know, why is this zeroed out on this line and why is it added here kind of thing?
[1:49:31] So if we could have that for the finance committee, so we can-
[1:49:35] For November 4th?
[1:49:37] Yes.
[1:49:38] So that, again, if that works, you know, and if more gets added to it because we ask questions,
[1:49:43] but I just, I knew Paris were being done differently and I know the pages are going to look different.
[1:49:47] And I would like to have that- I will suggest to whoever the chair is that it be either late
[1:49:55] November or December presentation to the board on here's what to expect the
[1:50:00] budget book will look like and hear some other things that are done. I'm meeting
[1:50:04] where Rob and Lisa Bennett this afternoon on the Paris because they've been
[1:50:09] working on this they want to present their plan. If anything changes with that I'll
[1:50:12] let you know you know it's and this is purely as in the information as it appears
[1:50:16] in the budget book if this is solely so that again because whenever we zero out
[1:50:21] account because we're redoing where we place it in the budget book. There's always, wait a minute,
[1:50:25] why aren't we doing this anymore? And I just think I'm not saying it's going to hold off any
[1:50:30] questions in January, but hopefully it could take care of a lot of them. And I know Terry and
[1:50:35] Frank have some insight on how they would like to maybe see some things reported out in the budget
[1:50:40] book a little differently as well. Does it make sense? Yeah, so is that reasonable? Yeah.
[1:50:47] For November to kind of have a preview of what the at least like the template will look like?
[1:50:51] I mean, it would just, you know, the numbers in there obviously wouldn't be oh, I don't want any numbers
[1:50:58] This is we're talking about like what the headings are and any
[1:51:02] We're changing the accounting line that this is on. Yeah, it's gonna be zero dot here
[1:51:06] But look, it's not that we zeroed it out. It's just that it now appears here. So I don't think we need any numbers
[1:51:13] It's just you have that you would start you would be starting budget bill in November, right?
[1:51:18] Okay, so you'll have the you'll have what she's saying because you'll be inputting it. We just won't be looking at the numbers
[1:51:29] Like my for example gift did at the I don't what I don't want to do now. They're sharing
[1:51:35] Bring us to a separate
[1:51:36] We are changing what we're looking at and I'm just trying to if that's too soon
[1:51:40] I'm not looking to have this be a discussion
[1:51:44] I think we could just just the discussion of how are we going to be reading it in January.
[1:51:50] So here's what I would say. The plan will be for them to bring it to the November 4th.
[1:51:55] If it's not ready by then, then the committee can schedule a special meeting to do work on just that.
[1:52:02] Okay. That's fine.
[1:52:04] Okay. Now, can I check and if it hasn't been done, cancel the September 2nd meeting,
[1:52:11] Do we know if that's been cancelled?
[1:52:15] I do not know.
[1:52:16] It has been.
[1:52:17] So today's meeting, you know, obviously, I don't have it on my calendar, so nothing's been done.
[1:52:24] Yeah.
[1:52:24] It got moved on the calendar from September 2nd.
[1:52:27] Okay.
[1:52:28] I just want to make sure the town was notified.
[1:52:30] I wouldn't assume that.
[1:52:31] And that are board of ed 20 or pilot pick.
[1:52:35] Hold on.
[1:52:36] I'm looking at the wrong thing.
[1:52:38] Our budget meeting dates, finance meeting dates.
[1:52:41] I think what's posted online, they should be crossed the cross that out for September
[1:52:48] 2nd.
[1:52:49] Yeah, I already deleted it off my calendar, but I just I don't know if it was officially
[1:52:55] done.
[1:52:55] I don't need traces not here to confirm.
[1:52:58] So I don't know because I could make said she know that.
[1:53:02] And Meg asked me about it, but I didn't consider that an official notification, so I don't know
[1:53:07] if she acted on it or not.
[1:53:08] Okay, I think she said Frank at Astor.
[1:53:16] There is no public comment because there's no public present.
[1:53:21] Anything else, Jeff? Nope. Anything else, Terry, Frank? My motion to adjourn. I'll make it.
[1:53:26] Second. Okay. 2L. 1129.
[1:53:34] 1129.
[1:53:41] Do you want to help me? Oh, I'm using it.