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While we are recording, the state will

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have generated 180 million euros in

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debt. That's 300,000 € per minute.

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That's 5,000 € per second. It’s

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cooked. The current presence, it’s

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dead. There will be losers when I

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implement my policy. It’s going to be

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the whole caste of those who cling to

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their privileges.

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» Do you believe in your election?

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» Today, I don't appear as someone who

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can win. I am aware of all that. He

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» We have the envelope left.

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» My great temptation is to tell you no,

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out of a spirit of provocation.

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» Spring 2026, the French will elect a

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president. Between now and then, you'll

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see it everywhere in the media,

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everyone talking about polls, alliances

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, and everyone picking out a soundbite

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to make a headline. That's not what

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we're going to do here. We decided to

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do the opposite, take 60 minutes with

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the candidate so they can lay out their

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vision for France. Not the one for

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tomorrow, not the one right after their

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election, no, the one they have for the

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tens, or even twenties, of years to

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come. So, to structure this interview

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as best as possible and make it as

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interesting as possible for you, we

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decided to build it in stages. And in

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the interview, there are four. Green,

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blue, red, and black. Yeah, a bit like

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ski slopes. The idea is that as the

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video progresses, the questions become

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increasingly difficult to answer and I,

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facing them, challenge them a bit more.

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And at the end of the interview, we

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keep the concept of our "confidential

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interview" that you can also find every

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Thursday on our channel. An envelope

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next to them that is present throughout

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the show and if they want to at the end

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, they can open it. But be careful, if

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they decide to open the envelope, they

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are required to answer the question.

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The first to sit across from me is

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David Lisnard, who is the mayor of

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Cannes, president of the Association of

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Mayors of France, and a candidate in

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the presidential election representing

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his party, New Energy. So let's get

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started, we have 1 hour with David

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Lisnard.

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» Friends, before starting the video, we

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wanted to give you a quick word. Thank

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you for being more and more numerous to

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follow us here. If you like our work,

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consider subscribing. It takes you 10

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seconds, but for us, it changes

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everything. Enjoy the video.

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» David Lisnard, hello.

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» Hello.

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» Thank you for accepting our invitation.

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» Thank you to you.

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» Today, we are going to have about an

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hour. We are going to exchange and

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discuss your vision for France in the

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context of the 2027 presidential

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election, since you are a candidate for

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the 2027 presidential race. I am

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warning you right now that during this

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show, the difficulty level of the

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questions will increase as the program

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goes on. We will move a bit like skiing

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, from the green zone to the red zone,

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then the black zone. I will try to

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increase the level of my answers.

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» I hope they will always be interesting,

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even from the beginning. And before we

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begin, there is also an envelope placed

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right next to you. So on this envelope,

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it says "confidential." It is a

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question, this time we are even above

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the black run. We are

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» If it is confidential, you shouldn't

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» Well, if you want to open it at the end

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, you ask the question, you open it.

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You will have to answer this question

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if you open it. If you decide not to

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open it.

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» OK,

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» You don't answer it in any case. What

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is the ideal France of 2050 for you? Uh

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, it is a France where my children and

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hopefully grandchildren can go where

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they want, how they want, dressed as

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they want, in safety, where their

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descendants themselves can look forward

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to prosperity. It is a France that

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creates wealth. It is a France that

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realizes its assets are essential in

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the 21st century, and notably the

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creativity of the French people, which,

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once liberated, makes us an

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entrepreneurial Eldorado. We see it

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sometimes, almost absurdly, through all

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the French people who go abroad, of

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course from top universities, but also

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many autodidacts who are often super

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business leaders who succeed, who are a

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hit, who invent things. So, for France

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to be a country that shines through its

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creativity, a country that has managed

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to restore its public accounts, that no

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longer depends on others, a country

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that, among its assets, is aware of the

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strength of its geography, of the rock,

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of the geology. It always strikes me. I

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was there not long ago, in August, for

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a few days in the mountains. You see

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the power of Mont Blanc. There you go,

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I told you about all that, but all the

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vibration that one encounters

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everywhere in France. Uh, when I go to

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Corsica, it's the same, the rock, it's

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a magnetic country, right? It is, there

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you go, a country that has understood

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that in the century of quantum, since

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in 2050 we will have finally stabilized

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quantum technology. Uh, the century of

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robotics, we absolutely must talk about

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that. The century of AI, uh, the brain

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must be permanently augmented itself

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and not weakened by technology. Let the

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body and the mind remain the two

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engines of a fulfilled life, of

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individual elevation. It is a France

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that embraces its history, a France

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that proudly upholds the values that

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built it: from Aristotelian logic,

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Greek philosophy, to Roman law, to the

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immense Judeo-Christian culture that

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shaped everything, our way of life and

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our way of rising in ethics and

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morality, even to the point of

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abolishing slavery, right. Slavery, it

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was a global, planetary reality, but

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ultimately it is here, here in Europe,

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that the perception of human dignity

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led to the abolition of slavery.

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» Which was reinstated later, then

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re-abolished, or not, but that doesn't

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change the fact that these debates

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existed, there you go. And that comes

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from Judeo-Christian culture, it comes

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from medieval scholasticism, it comes

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from the spirit of the Enlightenment;

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so all these layers that have

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accumulated. A France that will master

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breakthrough technologies, that will

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master the most advanced technologies,

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you know. A France that will produce

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its own robots. We will have roughly 50

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million robots in France by 2050. 20

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million in industry and services. We

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will have 20 million in our homes. We

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will have 10 million to help people

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with reduced mobility. Well, I hope we

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will produce them, that companies like

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VERCraft and others will have become

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hyper-capitalized global leaders. That

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every individual will be the owner of

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their own life

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» Thanks to quality education, thanks to

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a funded pension system. that we will

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have put in place starting in 2027

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after my election. And precisely to

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talk about that, because we are talking

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about robots, today France is still in

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last place or very far behind in

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producing robots, even if French people

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probably use a negative view, then,

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that you have of France today.

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» That is a good, that is a good point to

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bounce off of. Yes. I have...well, if I

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am here before you, and it is a

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pleasure to be here, it is because it

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seemed to me that we must be very

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clear-eyed about our country's decline,

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the most serious of which is the

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educational decline.

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» Some say that France is becoming a

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third-world country, by the way.

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» Yes, yes, of course it is becoming a

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third-world country. You are too young,

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but I knew a time when the...well, when

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you could take a plane without having a

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delayed flight 9 times out of 10. Right

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, it's...Yes, there is a form of

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third-worldization, obviously, but at

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the same time, along with a fantastic

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potential...I often say that I fight

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for the real country, to quote Victor

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Hugo. The real country is very creative

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; common sense is just asking to take

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power once again. Meaning,

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understanding that work must pay more

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than idleness, that investment must be

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rewarded, that risk-taking must be

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rewarded, and that we cannot live in a

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society that only aims to protect

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itself through egalitarianism,

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standardization, and the most sordid

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uniformity. The whole challenge of the

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coming months and years will be to make

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every individual strong, to recreate

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national concord, to regain security,

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to regain prosperity, and to regain an

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educational and scientific ambition.

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That is the foundation of all of this.

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I am developing a project on this, and

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yes, by symmetry, it points to the fact

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that we were among the top 10 countries

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producing the most wealth per capita

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just 30 years ago. We have dropped to

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27th place. We were a country envied

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for the quality of its public education

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. Today, we are the dunces of Europe.

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We are last in the PISA rankings in

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Europe, and in the TIMSS rankings for

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mathematics as well. We must put

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mathematics, grammar, French, and

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critical thinking back at the heart of

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the national project. Uh.

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» And what happened? Why did we arrive at

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» First, there are cyclical effects, as

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always in life. Moreover, if you like,

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we will talk about the great cycles

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that we will have to master. The long

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cycle of the end of the Renaissance,

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the cycle of the end of the welfare

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state, and the short cycle of the end

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of Macronism, to return to more

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political matters. And what happened is

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that there was a tremendous renewal of

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elites after the Second World War. And

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periods of great crisis, like wars,

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mean that personalities who have a bit

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of edge, who have character...You have

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to reread General de Gaulle’s words

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in his books from the 30s! The Edge of

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the Sword, in particular, Towards the

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Professional Army as well, but The Edge

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of the Sword, when he defines the man

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of character, the person of character.

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So we had elites who both had a

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classical rigor, who had been trained

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in the most classical way but who had

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faced the harsh edges of life and who

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had become leaders in situations that

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reveal characters who know how to face

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turbulence. And so we arrived, and

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there were the "Glorious Thirty" years

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with demographic growth upon which our

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entire prosperity relied. We had more

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children, we invested, we paid early,

269
00:09:38,599 --> 00:09:41,926
and then for about thirty years, there

270
00:09:40,987 --> 00:09:44,130
was a desire to prolong this system

271
00:09:43,191 --> 00:09:46,456
even though productivity isn't there,

272
00:09:45,517 --> 00:09:48,721
we don't control immigration, and we

273
00:09:47,782 --> 00:09:50,986
have settlement migration instead of

274
00:09:50,048 --> 00:09:53,374
the labor migration we had before, and

275
00:09:52,435 --> 00:09:55,639
it is massive now, whereas before it

276
00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:57,599
was controlled. Uh, that we aren't

277
00:09:56,639 --> 00:10:00,632
having kids anymore. That the entire

278
00:09:59,686 --> 00:10:02,692
pension system is collapsing and that

279
00:10:01,747 --> 00:10:04,861
the elite, through certain top schools,

280
00:10:03,915 --> 00:10:06,705
has become uniform and reproduced

281
00:10:05,759 --> 00:10:10,106
itself. And these are the three ages of

282
00:10:09,174 --> 00:10:12,077
aristocracy from, I believe,

283
00:10:11,145 --> 00:10:14,728
Chateaubriand, but there you go, we've

284
00:10:13,795 --> 00:10:18,125
arrived at the age of privileges. So

285
00:10:17,178 --> 00:10:20,254
now we need a circulation of elites, we

286
00:10:19,307 --> 00:10:22,383
need a renewal of elites, and otherwise

287
00:10:21,436 --> 00:10:25,619
our country will collapse. As it is,

288
00:10:24,674 --> 00:10:27,676
it's collapsing while amplifying its

289
00:10:26,731 --> 00:10:29,590
own decline. Twenty or twenty-five

290
00:10:28,619 --> 00:10:30,773
years ago, we were at the same standard

291
00:10:29,803 --> 00:10:31,809
of living as the average American.

292
00:10:30,909 --> 00:10:33,596
Today, we are 40%less wealthy than

293
00:10:32,646 --> 00:10:35,278
Americans. It's all happening very fast

294
00:10:34,278 --> 00:10:37,463
, what is going on today. Either

295
00:10:36,511 --> 00:10:39,172
through violence, with engineers of

296
00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:41,023
violence, engineers of chaos—well, I

297
00:10:40,071 --> 00:10:42,922
don't know if they're engineers, by the

298
00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:44,584
way, but in any case, they produce

299
00:10:43,631 --> 00:10:46,482
chaos, especially the far-left, and the

300
00:10:45,530 --> 00:10:48,239
LFI, and Jean-Luc Mélenchon's whole

301
00:10:47,286 --> 00:10:51,435
clique. You are currently the mayor of

302
00:10:50,484 --> 00:10:53,380
Cannes, and have been for a long time.

303
00:10:52,779 --> 00:10:56,024
Uh, what has being mayor of Cannes

304
00:10:55,090 --> 00:10:58,467
taught you regarding what we have at

305
00:10:57,533 --> 00:11:00,779
the city scale compared to France?

306
00:11:00,379 --> 00:11:02,531
» Well, first of all, I applied

307
00:11:01,571 --> 00:11:03,962
principles there that I have always

308
00:11:03,001 --> 00:11:05,233
applied in everything I've been

309
00:11:04,273 --> 00:11:06,823
entrusted with, in both the private and

310
00:11:05,862 --> 00:11:08,828
public sectors. I managed a large

311
00:11:07,881 --> 00:11:10,868
drinking water authority, I believe in

312
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,959
the public sector, and when I left, the

313
00:11:12,011 --> 00:11:14,998
price of water was 30%cheaper than the

314
00:11:14,051 --> 00:11:16,871
national average. We had paid off its

315
00:11:15,915 --> 00:11:19,157
debt and it was functioning well. Uh,

316
00:11:18,203 --> 00:11:20,955
there you go, I have businesses and so

317
00:11:20,001 --> 00:11:23,551
on. It means that the principles of

318
00:11:22,603 --> 00:11:25,318
good management apply everywhere,

319
00:11:24,370 --> 00:11:28,707
including in the public sector. When

320
00:11:27,768 --> 00:11:31,169
you manage to motivate your teams, when

321
00:11:30,231 --> 00:11:33,385
you manage to define objectives, to

322
00:11:32,447 --> 00:11:35,725
think in terms of—as we used to say

323
00:11:34,786 --> 00:11:38,064
in previous generations, but it works

324
00:11:37,126 --> 00:11:40,526
very well—zero-based budgeting, which

325
00:11:39,588 --> 00:11:42,743
means building budget surpluses and

326
00:11:41,804 --> 00:11:45,205
saying that it’s unavoidable, that it

327
00:11:44,267 --> 00:11:47,544
can’t last otherwise, that you only

328
00:11:46,606 --> 00:11:49,699
borrow for investment, to practice

329
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,907
participative management, to remove the

330
00:11:52,964 --> 00:11:56,212
bad ones—there are 22%fewer employees

331
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:58,516
at city hall than 12 years ago—but to

332
00:11:57,574 --> 00:12:00,764
reward the vast majority of people who

333
00:11:59,821 --> 00:12:02,723
work well, to lead, to direct, to

334
00:12:01,781 --> 00:12:05,028
encourage the civil servants, the staff

335
00:12:04,028 --> 00:12:07,275
, to be pragmatic, by applying this, it

336
00:12:06,333 --> 00:12:10,040
works. So we have lowered the debt by

337
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,465
—we are going to be at 84 million

338
00:12:10,506 --> 00:12:12,767
euros in debt reduction without

339
00:12:11,808 --> 00:12:14,354
off-balance sheet accounting in a city

340
00:12:13,395 --> 00:12:16,049
that is very complicated, you know. I

341
00:12:15,049 --> 00:12:17,826
—because I am forced every time to

342
00:12:16,876 --> 00:12:19,703
deconstruct the cliché linked to the

343
00:12:18,752 --> 00:12:21,882
festival, if you like. Cannes is a city

344
00:12:20,941 --> 00:12:24,107
that, historically, is a cosmopolitan

345
00:12:23,166 --> 00:12:25,485
city. It is a city of strong

346
00:12:24,528 --> 00:12:27,219
immigration, poor immigration. It is a

347
00:12:26,256 --> 00:12:28,630
city that has had a very high poverty

348
00:12:27,667 --> 00:12:29,967
rate since the 19th century, and we

349
00:12:29,004 --> 00:12:32,165
welcome poverty. There you go, 21%or

350
00:12:31,225 --> 00:12:34,516
even 22%poverty, so very strong social

351
00:12:33,577 --> 00:12:35,180
contracts.

352
00:12:35,619 --> 00:12:39,462
» And that one must always remember the

353
00:12:38,539 --> 00:12:42,537
goal, which is that of the common good,

354
00:12:41,614 --> 00:12:44,843
so the principles of rigorous

355
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,687
management, of listening to everyone

356
00:12:46,764 --> 00:12:50,684
and of not trivializing the testimony,

357
00:12:49,761 --> 00:12:53,605
the words of each individual we meet,

358
00:12:52,682 --> 00:12:57,476
but not falling into clientelism. There

359
00:12:56,528 --> 00:12:59,539
must be proximity, but not familiarity.

360
00:12:58,841 --> 00:13:02,020
It is, and that the exercise of

361
00:13:01,091 --> 00:13:03,638
authority, you know—

362
00:13:03,005 --> 00:13:05,199
» With your collaborators, you mean?

363
00:13:04,299 --> 00:13:06,659
» With everyone, with the residents as

364
00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:08,659
well. I am mandated by the residents.

365
00:13:07,768 --> 00:13:10,293
Uh, it’s what I understand at the

366
00:13:09,337 --> 00:13:11,985
national level. I think many people

367
00:13:11,032 --> 00:13:13,676
forget that. We are one resident among

368
00:13:12,716 --> 00:13:15,351
other residents, but mandated. So when

369
00:13:14,395 --> 00:13:17,086
you are mandated, you are accountable;

370
00:13:16,131 --> 00:13:18,732
when you are an agent, you answer to

371
00:13:17,777 --> 00:13:20,910
the principal. So always being

372
00:13:19,972 --> 00:13:23,392
accountable, explaining, trying to lead

373
00:13:22,454 --> 00:13:25,531
positively, obviously. We all do

374
00:13:24,584 --> 00:13:27,535
communication, we try to promote what

375
00:13:26,588 --> 00:13:29,538
we do well, to explain when things go

376
00:13:28,591 --> 00:13:31,595
wrong, not to hide things, not to mask

377
00:13:30,648 --> 00:13:33,493
security problems, drug dealing, or

378
00:13:32,546 --> 00:13:35,181
incivility that drive me crazy.

379
00:13:34,699 --> 00:13:36,897
Problems one might encounter with

380
00:13:35,933 --> 00:13:37,950
construction work, there are

381
00:13:36,986 --> 00:13:40,847
difficulties. Well, it's a magnificent

382
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,204
experience because the commune,

383
00:13:42,278 --> 00:13:46,151
community, it's all the same etymology,

384
00:13:45,225 --> 00:13:49,024
it's truly the geographical space that

385
00:13:48,098 --> 00:13:51,529
carries meaning, history, and and

386
00:13:50,603 --> 00:13:53,882
future. That's where you realize it

387
00:13:52,925 --> 00:13:56,522
physically. Uh, man is a social animal,

388
00:13:55,585 --> 00:13:58,920
and we will see it more and more with

389
00:13:57,983 --> 00:14:01,444
the rise of of of the of of the digital

390
00:14:00,507 --> 00:14:03,779
world, which is already exponential.

391
00:14:02,919 --> 00:14:06,933
Anyway, and uh, and so it's this, it's

392
00:14:06,012 --> 00:14:10,142
a human community. Uh, a mayor is a

393
00:14:09,209 --> 00:14:12,306
practitioner, uh, you must have

394
00:14:11,374 --> 00:14:14,808
principles, convictions, values, but

395
00:14:13,876 --> 00:14:17,379
the thing that counts is the reality.

396
00:14:16,736 --> 00:14:19,349
It is always the reality that must

397
00:14:18,396 --> 00:14:21,220
prevail. So, very concretely, there are

398
00:14:20,264 --> 00:14:22,698
services that I have outsourced,

399
00:14:21,743 --> 00:14:24,219
privatized. There are other services

400
00:14:23,256 --> 00:14:25,691
that I have brought back in-house, even

401
00:14:24,728 --> 00:14:27,126
though it was counterintuitive for me,

402
00:14:26,163 --> 00:14:28,802
because it was rational. For example,

403
00:14:27,857 --> 00:14:30,824
regarding green spaces, I outsourced

404
00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:32,737
them; regarding urban cleanliness,

405
00:14:31,792 --> 00:14:34,650
which is a service that I find has

406
00:14:33,705 --> 00:14:36,727
progressed a lot, enormously, where I

407
00:14:35,782 --> 00:14:38,858
think we are really, well, we're doing

408
00:14:37,913 --> 00:14:41,160
pretty well thanks to good teams. The

409
00:14:40,208 --> 00:14:43,052
teams explained that there had been, in

410
00:14:42,099 --> 00:14:44,896
the past, the privatization of certain

411
00:14:43,943 --> 00:14:46,409
cleaning services for stickers,

412
00:14:45,456 --> 00:14:48,111
something like that, which actually

413
00:14:47,158 --> 00:14:49,624
cost a lot because there was no

414
00:14:48,671 --> 00:14:51,421
competition in the private sector and

415
00:14:50,468 --> 00:14:53,218
that our agents could do it, provided

416
00:14:52,265 --> 00:14:55,062
they were paid better, and in the end,

417
00:14:54,109 --> 00:14:56,859
it would cost us less, and it worked.

418
00:14:56,073 --> 00:14:59,094
There are other things, however, where

419
00:14:58,147 --> 00:15:01,061
in the private sector there was real

420
00:15:00,115 --> 00:15:02,816
competition, so there was better

421
00:15:01,870 --> 00:15:04,784
productivity, so we outsourced; it's

422
00:15:03,837 --> 00:15:06,008
about being pragmatic.

423
00:15:05,108 --> 00:15:07,310
» Yes. What you're advocating is

424
00:15:06,344 --> 00:15:08,176
pragmatism, if I if I...

425
00:15:07,276 --> 00:15:10,303
» Yes. But while keeping objectives in

426
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:12,134
mind, because pragmatism alone goes in

427
00:15:11,181 --> 00:15:13,919
circles, and you also have to give it

428
00:15:12,966 --> 00:15:15,046
sense, give it meaning.

429
00:15:14,239 --> 00:15:18,006
» Yeah. And to what extent does your

430
00:15:17,054 --> 00:15:19,880
liberal logic, since you claim to be a

431
00:15:18,928 --> 00:15:21,467
liberal, apply to your political

432
00:15:20,515 --> 00:15:25,624
persona? Is the idea to make budget

433
00:15:24,716 --> 00:15:28,118
cuts? You advocate for pragmatism; to

434
00:15:27,164 --> 00:15:29,929
what extent does pragmatism also align

435
00:15:28,976 --> 00:15:31,399
with liberalism? How...

436
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,688
» Your question is very peculiar because

437
00:15:32,741 --> 00:15:35,327
it reveals, forgive me, but an

438
00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:37,739
ideological bias. Uh, so we must, we

439
00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:40,306
must really put all that aside. You

440
00:15:39,362 --> 00:15:41,979
tell me liberal, budget cuts.

441
00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:43,442
» I, I don't really see the connection,

442
00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:46,439
if you will. What is a liberal? Who is

443
00:15:45,542 --> 00:15:48,590
that? It consists of thinking that

444
00:15:47,641 --> 00:15:53,013
freedom is the characteristic of the

445
00:15:52,061 --> 00:15:54,898
human being, of humanity, that it is a

446
00:15:53,947 --> 00:15:56,784
permanent struggle and that it is both

447
00:15:55,832 --> 00:15:58,717
the best tool for efficiency (so it has

448
00:15:57,766 --> 00:16:00,603
a utilitarian value; we must certainly

449
00:15:59,651 --> 00:16:02,536
not rely solely on utilitarianism), but

450
00:16:01,585 --> 00:16:04,470
it also has a moral value, meaning that

451
00:16:03,518 --> 00:16:06,999
freedom is the condition of dignity. So

452
00:16:05,999 --> 00:16:08,489
, without resorting to low-level

453
00:16:07,536 --> 00:16:10,213
philosophy, we only know we are free

454
00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:11,983
when we know we assume responsibility

455
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:13,707
for our actions, because that is the

456
00:16:12,753 --> 00:16:16,134
condition of freedom. And so it is what

457
00:16:15,190 --> 00:16:18,324
makes for human dignity, what makes us

458
00:16:17,381 --> 00:16:20,403
have choices, makes a person full in

459
00:16:19,459 --> 00:16:22,538
their dignity because we have freedom

460
00:16:21,594 --> 00:16:24,560
of choice, and to be free, one must

461
00:16:23,616 --> 00:16:26,807
have ownership of one's life, ownership

462
00:16:25,863 --> 00:16:29,419
of one's actions. Liberalism is a

463
00:16:28,494 --> 00:16:32,192
vision of man, a vision of humanity;

464
00:16:31,266 --> 00:16:34,815
it's not about making budget cuts.

465
00:16:33,915 --> 00:16:37,159
Sometimes you might have to make budget

466
00:16:36,217 --> 00:16:38,985
cuts. It's a method to free people

467
00:16:38,034 --> 00:16:39,380
through

468
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,533
» Starting with a philosophical principle

469
00:16:39,533 --> 00:16:42,013
. Shall I tell you why? It's to free

470
00:16:41,055 --> 00:16:43,713
individuals from the burden of taxation

471
00:16:42,713 --> 00:16:45,209
. Because to talk about budget

472
00:16:44,257 --> 00:16:47,094
expenditures is to talk about revenue,

473
00:16:46,142 --> 00:16:48,979
which means less individual freedom in

474
00:16:48,027 --> 00:16:50,816
controlling one's income and capital.

475
00:16:49,951 --> 00:16:52,909
» So, more taxes mean less freedom.

476
00:16:52,009 --> 00:16:55,693
» Of course. Well, yes, if you have €

477
00:16:54,739 --> 00:16:57,561
100 and you have the freedom to control

478
00:16:56,607 --> 00:16:59,382
your € 100, and I say to you, "Well,

479
00:16:58,429 --> 00:17:01,203
here, I'm taking 50," well, you are no

480
00:17:00,250 --> 00:17:02,931
longer free to do what you want with

481
00:17:01,978 --> 00:17:05,867
the € 50 I took from you. So, you

482
00:17:04,926 --> 00:17:08,087
lose € 50 of freedom of action, you

483
00:17:07,145 --> 00:17:10,436
see. It's as simple as that. And it's a

484
00:17:09,517 --> 00:17:13,020
principle that is the matrix of

485
00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:16,387
prosperity. When you are the owner of

486
00:17:15,445 --> 00:17:18,356
the gains from the fruits of your

487
00:17:17,414 --> 00:17:21,200
efforts, you are motivated. Exactly.

488
00:17:21,219 --> 00:17:23,773
And every country—so it's a question

489
00:17:22,814 --> 00:17:25,409
of balance, because we also need taxes,

490
00:17:24,450 --> 00:17:27,046
we need the common good, we need public

491
00:17:26,087 --> 00:17:28,519
services operating on subsidiarity,

492
00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:30,155
doing what the market cannot do or what

493
00:17:29,196 --> 00:17:32,289
the market should not do. Not

494
00:17:31,335 --> 00:17:34,101
everything is for sale. Precisely, the

495
00:17:33,145 --> 00:17:35,764
human body is not for sale. There we

496
00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:37,389
are, well within the principles we call

497
00:17:36,429 --> 00:17:39,020
natural rights. It is therefore the

498
00:17:38,059 --> 00:17:39,839
preservation of life

499
00:17:39,459 --> 00:17:42,691
» The mastery of the human body is

500
00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:44,657
essential. And the principle is very

501
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:46,282
simple; it is at the base of liberal

502
00:17:45,326 --> 00:17:48,039
societies and the progress of humanity.

503
00:17:47,139 --> 00:17:49,911
Meaning that freedom never has to be

504
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,683
justified; it is the restriction of

505
00:17:50,732 --> 00:17:54,075
freedom that must be justified. And so,

506
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,837
freedom must be restricted so that the

507
00:17:54,882 --> 00:17:57,599
freedom of some does not infringe upon

508
00:17:56,644 --> 00:17:59,342
the freedom of others. The finest text

509
00:17:58,379 --> 00:18:00,422
from that perspective is the

510
00:17:59,460 --> 00:18:01,912
Declaration of the Rights of Man and of

511
00:18:00,950 --> 00:18:03,811
the Citizen of 1789. And in very

512
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:05,484
concrete terms, what does that mean? It

513
00:18:04,546 --> 00:18:07,719
means that I cannot, well, I am not

514
00:18:06,781 --> 00:18:10,656
free to steal the property of others. I

515
00:18:09,709 --> 00:18:12,515
am not free to damage public space

516
00:18:11,568 --> 00:18:14,640
because I am encroaching on the freedom

517
00:18:13,693 --> 00:18:16,765
of other citizens who will pay taxes to

518
00:18:15,818 --> 00:18:18,836
restore the integrity of public space,

519
00:18:17,889 --> 00:18:20,959
repair urban property, and so on. It is

520
00:18:20,002 --> 00:18:22,395
always a balance. It is never as

521
00:18:21,435 --> 00:18:24,724
obvious as that. I must absolutely

522
00:18:23,775 --> 00:18:26,760
preserve the freedom to demonstrate and

523
00:18:25,811 --> 00:18:28,949
to express oneself. But that freedom is

524
00:18:27,992 --> 00:18:31,138
not a freedom to destroy. So, when a

525
00:18:30,192 --> 00:18:33,241
prefect issues an order, a prefectural

526
00:18:32,294 --> 00:18:35,235
decree to ban a demonstration, it is

527
00:18:34,289 --> 00:18:37,177
often abusive, and there has been a

528
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:39,225
shift toward restricting liberties in

529
00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:41,314
France in recent years. On the other

530
00:18:40,358 --> 00:18:42,518
hand, if the demonstration

531
00:18:41,563 --> 00:18:44,213
systematically smashes all the shops,

532
00:18:43,257 --> 00:18:45,863
it is obvious that it must be banned

533
00:18:44,908 --> 00:18:47,647
because it is an attack on the property

534
00:18:46,692 --> 00:18:49,342
of others, and thus on the freedom of

535
00:18:48,386 --> 00:18:50,634
others. It is an extraordinary way of

536
00:18:49,659 --> 00:18:52,019
thinking, actually. In fact, it is just

537
00:18:51,061 --> 00:18:53,919
common sense. For me, if you will, I do

538
00:18:52,961 --> 00:18:55,711
not care about ideology. I, many people

539
00:18:54,757 --> 00:18:57,546
claim common sense on both the left and

540
00:18:56,592 --> 00:18:58,051
the right.

541
00:18:57,151 --> 00:19:00,021
» Yes, of course. But, listen, in any

542
00:18:59,077 --> 00:19:02,239
case, nonsense exists, that is for sure

543
00:19:01,239 --> 00:19:04,330
, in every sense of the word. If you

544
00:19:03,392 --> 00:19:05,879
allow me, liberal, then.

545
00:19:05,099 --> 00:19:07,433
» It is, but there too you fall into "

546
00:19:06,433 --> 00:19:08,878
isms," but that is because we are going

547
00:19:07,916 --> 00:19:10,213
to define you, we are going to fall

548
00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:12,654
into intellectual stuff. Common sense

549
00:19:11,717 --> 00:19:14,733
is letting individuals flourish,

550
00:19:13,796 --> 00:19:17,001
prosper, and understanding that the

551
00:19:16,064 --> 00:19:19,394
common good needs individuals who can

552
00:19:18,457 --> 00:19:21,536
express themselves, that there is

553
00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:23,677
nothing, that 1,000 controls cost

554
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:25,819
society much more than one or two

555
00:19:24,882 --> 00:19:28,339
people who abuse the system, and so on.

556
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:31,855
That is to say, at a given moment,

557
00:19:30,915 --> 00:19:34,169
there is a notion of spontaneous order

558
00:19:33,228 --> 00:19:36,304
which is the matrix of progress, of

559
00:19:35,364 --> 00:19:38,203
prosperity, of solving material

560
00:19:37,262 --> 00:19:40,338
problems, and that public authority

561
00:19:39,398 --> 00:19:42,533
must intervene; it has a major role,

562
00:19:41,593 --> 00:19:44,609
violence, a monopoly on legitimate

563
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:46,923
violence, as Max Weber said, to ensure

564
00:19:45,982 --> 00:19:49,236
order in society, order at the service

565
00:19:48,296 --> 00:19:52,098
of individual liberties. And it is all

566
00:19:51,144 --> 00:19:53,962
about that balance. And today, I am

567
00:19:53,008 --> 00:19:55,518
still labeled as a liberal. Well, I

568
00:19:54,544 --> 00:19:56,779
thought it was a compliment. At first,

569
00:19:55,819 --> 00:19:58,019
I understood that it was a bit

570
00:19:57,059 --> 00:19:59,419
pejorative in France, but that’s

571
00:19:58,459 --> 00:20:00,939
simply because the country has become

572
00:19:59,979 --> 00:20:02,359
super socialist, you know. H

573
00:20:02,259 --> 00:20:04,893
» You see, in other countries, I wouldn't

574
00:20:03,935 --> 00:20:06,485
even be called a liberal economically

575
00:20:05,527 --> 00:20:09,639
speaking, I mean, you know. And when

576
00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:12,276
you have a public apparatus that today

577
00:20:11,343 --> 00:20:14,844
captures 57%, soon 58%, of all wealth

578
00:20:13,912 --> 00:20:17,210
produced, it has never happened in

579
00:20:16,278 --> 00:20:20,571
history. It’s the absolute record,

580
00:20:19,630 --> 00:20:23,889
France is. Public spending is 58%of

581
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:26,792
wealth. There is obviously a prosperity

582
00:20:25,846 --> 00:20:28,925
problem, but there is a freedom problem

583
00:20:27,925 --> 00:20:30,631
. That’s obvious. And so, we

584
00:20:29,674 --> 00:20:31,967
absolutely must carry out this

585
00:20:31,010 --> 00:20:34,566
revolution of freedom. So, to reach the

586
00:20:33,643 --> 00:20:37,175
ideal France you mentioned at the

587
00:20:36,252 --> 00:20:40,091
beginning for 2050, if you take power

588
00:20:39,167 --> 00:20:43,006
in 2027 and perhaps subsequent terms,

589
00:20:42,083 --> 00:20:46,842
how does that happen concretely? If we

590
00:20:45,903 --> 00:20:49,272
decide to lower taxes as you mentioned,

591
00:20:48,333 --> 00:20:51,581
how do we manage public services, how

592
00:20:50,642 --> 00:20:55,598
is all that organized? Knowing that

593
00:20:54,646 --> 00:20:57,240
today we already feel that public

594
00:20:56,289 --> 00:20:59,172
services are struggling with France’s

595
00:20:58,221 --> 00:21:01,615
current tax levels. How do we manage?

596
00:21:00,715 --> 00:21:03,982
Second deconstruction of the question.

597
00:21:03,082 --> 00:21:04,678
» Very well.

598
00:21:03,778 --> 00:21:06,429
» It’s because there is too much public

599
00:21:05,472 --> 00:21:08,081
spending and too many taxes that there

600
00:21:07,123 --> 00:21:09,899
is a problem with public services. Now,

601
00:21:08,958 --> 00:21:11,943
that’s counterintuitive. So I’m

602
00:21:10,988 --> 00:21:12,744
curious, explain.

603
00:21:12,239 --> 00:21:14,590
» But, and this has actually been

604
00:21:13,633 --> 00:21:17,510
theorized in economics, by the way. Uh,

605
00:21:16,580 --> 00:21:20,257
but it’s very simple; you see, I’m

606
00:21:19,328 --> 00:21:23,376
going to turn it around. I’ll take

607
00:21:22,418 --> 00:21:24,874
one of the most highly administered

608
00:21:23,916 --> 00:21:26,372
countries where they have very good

609
00:21:25,414 --> 00:21:27,912
public services in Europe; I won’t

610
00:21:26,953 --> 00:21:29,576
compare it to Asia, Latin America, etc.

611
00:21:28,576 --> 00:21:32,291
, or the past. Today, you take the

612
00:21:31,353 --> 00:21:34,699
Netherlands; the Netherlands has a per

613
00:21:33,761 --> 00:21:36,860
capita income higher than ours and

614
00:21:35,921 --> 00:21:39,471
better social coverage than ours. In

615
00:21:38,506 --> 00:21:40,755
the Netherlands, you get very, very

616
00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:42,181
good care, you have emergency services,

617
00:21:41,217 --> 00:21:43,393
and there is an effective justice

618
00:21:42,429 --> 00:21:46,059
system. They have managed to contain

619
00:21:45,131 --> 00:21:48,390
delinquency, and they even have

620
00:21:47,463 --> 00:21:51,923
under-occupied prisons. Prevention, a

621
00:21:50,959 --> 00:21:53,126
lot of prevention I imagine, but

622
00:21:52,162 --> 00:21:54,548
prevention and above all, no, there is

623
00:21:53,584 --> 00:21:55,970
especially a very strong authority and

624
00:21:55,006 --> 00:21:57,437
very fast, very quick. We move very

625
00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:57,702
fast.

626
00:21:56,802 --> 00:21:58,081
» OK.

627
00:21:57,399 --> 00:22:00,233
» And do you know the amount of public

628
00:21:59,284 --> 00:22:02,271
spending in the Netherlands relative to

629
00:22:01,322 --> 00:22:04,653
wealth? For us in France, I say 57%of

630
00:22:03,711 --> 00:22:06,670
GDP, of the wealth produced. In the

631
00:22:05,709 --> 00:22:09,010
Netherlands, it’s 45%. Do you realize

632
00:22:08,048 --> 00:22:11,486
that? There is a 12-point gap. That

633
00:22:10,558 --> 00:22:14,219
means 12 points of French GDP—we'll

634
00:22:13,290 --> 00:22:16,735
verify, but it must be 350 billion

635
00:22:15,807 --> 00:22:19,040
euros. That means that in the

636
00:22:18,088 --> 00:22:20,822
Netherlands, they have better public

637
00:22:19,870 --> 00:22:22,557
services while spending, all things

638
00:22:21,605 --> 00:22:24,340
being equal, 350 billion euros less.

639
00:22:23,539 --> 00:22:27,048
Why? Because in France, there is a

640
00:22:26,105 --> 00:22:29,038
diversion of taxpayer money toward

641
00:22:28,095 --> 00:22:30,759
hyper-bureaucracy. H

642
00:22:30,659 --> 00:22:33,019
» The OECD—not me, not some

643
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:34,884
ultra-liberal think tank—estimates

644
00:22:33,935 --> 00:22:36,648
that French over-bureaucratization

645
00:22:35,699 --> 00:22:38,564
compared to European bureaucracy (and

646
00:22:37,614 --> 00:22:39,925
Europe is already the most

647
00:22:38,975 --> 00:22:41,890
bureaucratized continent in the world)

648
00:22:40,890 --> 00:22:43,755
...That over-bureaucracy accounts for

649
00:22:42,806 --> 00:22:46,506
at least three points of wealth. That

650
00:22:45,563 --> 00:22:48,672
is to say, over 80 billion, almost 90

651
00:22:47,729 --> 00:22:51,834
billion euros in excess costs. So the

652
00:22:50,908 --> 00:22:54,650
goal, the goal is to have more nurses

653
00:22:53,724 --> 00:22:57,614
taking care of us in hospitals, to have

654
00:22:56,688 --> 00:23:00,224
more police on the streets. I mean,

655
00:22:59,276 --> 00:23:02,208
after 1 AM in police-patrolled zones,

656
00:23:01,261 --> 00:23:04,297
you have almost no national police left

657
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:06,282
in France—in the country that holds

658
00:23:05,334 --> 00:23:08,110
the world record for taxes, social

659
00:23:07,162 --> 00:23:10,146
charges, and public spending—to have

660
00:23:09,198 --> 00:23:12,183
more court clerks, more prison spaces,

661
00:23:11,235 --> 00:23:14,272
more effective and better-paid teachers

662
00:23:13,272 --> 00:23:15,943
, and to rediscover a scientific

663
00:23:14,995 --> 00:23:17,980
ambition, including in public science.

664
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,312
And for that, there must be less

665
00:23:19,361 --> 00:23:22,884
bureaucracy. To have less bureaucracy,

666
00:23:21,943 --> 00:23:25,023
we need fewer absurd, contradictory

667
00:23:24,082 --> 00:23:26,645
rules. So, we have to start all over

668
00:23:25,673 --> 00:23:28,952
again. Debureaucratize, deregulate,

669
00:23:28,014 --> 00:23:31,879
decentralize. Fewer bureaucrats paid

670
00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:33,980
with our taxes, more police, more

671
00:23:33,042 --> 00:23:37,029
teachers. You know, I remember France

672
00:23:36,029 --> 00:23:38,935
—it's the privilege of age—before

673
00:23:37,986 --> 00:23:39,399
the ARS,

674
00:23:39,911 --> 00:23:42,550
» Before the regional health agencies,

675
00:23:41,650 --> 00:23:44,279
» Before the regional environmental

676
00:23:43,329 --> 00:23:46,058
directorate, before the MRAE, well,

677
00:23:45,107 --> 00:23:47,046
before all these...

678
00:23:47,939 --> 00:23:50,585
» 11 entities that today must give us

679
00:23:49,632 --> 00:23:52,278
authorization to build a factory or

680
00:23:51,325 --> 00:23:53,784
create a school, purely from an

681
00:23:52,831 --> 00:23:55,242
environmental standpoint, that

682
00:23:54,289 --> 00:23:57,077
contradict each other, that contradict

683
00:23:56,124 --> 00:23:58,629
those in charge of health, which

684
00:23:57,676 --> 00:24:00,417
themselves contradict those in charge

685
00:23:59,464 --> 00:24:03,246
of urban planning law. There is an

686
00:24:02,290 --> 00:24:04,795
inflation of regulations, there is

687
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:08,011
textual harassment. So the major

688
00:24:07,082 --> 00:24:10,783
challenge is to reorganize governance,

689
00:24:09,854 --> 00:24:13,199
to reorganize public authorities.

690
00:24:13,181 --> 00:24:15,417
» Is it possible to do that today?

691
00:24:15,123 --> 00:24:17,014
» We have the impression that we are

692
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,983
stuck. I say, as a young person too,

693
00:24:18,042 --> 00:24:21,251
what is impossible is to continue like

694
00:24:20,309 --> 00:24:23,336
today. We have a system that creates

695
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:26,239
poverty. We have a system that locks

696
00:24:25,293 --> 00:24:28,962
people into poverty traps. 60%of French

697
00:24:28,030 --> 00:24:31,705
employees have a salary below 1.6 times

698
00:24:30,774 --> 00:24:34,524
the minimum wage. Why? Because we

699
00:24:33,570 --> 00:24:36,337
created surcharges on labor, and since

700
00:24:35,384 --> 00:24:38,197
that didn't work, we offered exemptions

701
00:24:37,244 --> 00:24:40,555
below 1.6 times the minimum wage. So,

702
00:24:39,594 --> 00:24:42,405
we’re locking people in. I want to be

703
00:24:41,445 --> 00:24:43,984
the movement for those who want to get

704
00:24:43,025 --> 00:24:46,110
ahead, for social mobility. France has

705
00:24:45,164 --> 00:24:48,184
been in a calamitous situation several

706
00:24:47,238 --> 00:24:50,259
times in its history, just like today.

707
00:24:49,379 --> 00:24:51,900
I’m thinking in particular of '58,

708
00:24:50,942 --> 00:24:53,422
the end of the Fourth Republic, the

709
00:24:52,464 --> 00:24:54,859
decolonization—it was colossal.

710
00:24:54,142 --> 00:24:57,143
General de Gaulle—now, I’m not de

711
00:24:56,197 --> 00:24:59,199
Gaulle, but General de Gaulle in '58,

712
00:24:58,253 --> 00:25:01,200
in nine months, went from a 6%public

713
00:25:00,254 --> 00:25:03,387
deficit to a surplus. We are at nearly

714
00:25:02,443 --> 00:25:05,801
6%today in France. He restarted the

715
00:25:04,854 --> 00:25:07,907
machine and overhauled the institutions

716
00:25:06,907 --> 00:25:10,674
. Other countries have done it:

717
00:25:09,731 --> 00:25:12,958
Schröder's Germany, Milei's Argentina,

718
00:25:12,015 --> 00:25:15,070
Thatcher's England—even the social

719
00:25:14,127 --> 00:25:17,297
democrats, I'm talking about people on

720
00:25:16,354 --> 00:25:19,524
the left in Sweden, Denmark, they’ve

721
00:25:18,581 --> 00:25:21,465
succeeded, as have Canada and New

722
00:25:20,522 --> 00:25:24,331
Zealand. We have remained stuck in

723
00:25:23,382 --> 00:25:26,062
patterns that are overly statist,

724
00:25:25,113 --> 00:25:28,099
overly Keynesian, and overly socialist.

725
00:25:27,259 --> 00:25:29,499
All of that pretty much goes together.

726
00:25:28,899 --> 00:25:31,902
So, it is time to move on to something

727
00:25:30,955 --> 00:25:34,040
else. That is what I am proposing. This

728
00:25:33,101 --> 00:25:36,399
is the complete opposite of extremism.

729
00:25:35,533 --> 00:25:38,274
It is extremely rational and reasonable

730
00:25:37,274 --> 00:25:39,893
, but it is radical. Meaning we are

731
00:25:38,937 --> 00:25:42,206
going to the root of things. And it’s

732
00:25:41,251 --> 00:25:43,998
the only way to regain effective, local

733
00:25:43,043 --> 00:25:46,916
public services. It’s the only way to

734
00:25:45,979 --> 00:25:49,314
regain economic oxygen. It’s the only

735
00:25:48,365 --> 00:25:51,361
way to recreate social mobility. Look,

736
00:25:50,409 --> 00:25:54,693
I'll give you some things we are going

737
00:25:53,725 --> 00:25:56,176
to do. We are going to remove the

738
00:25:55,214 --> 00:25:57,425
precautionary principle from the

739
00:25:56,463 --> 00:25:58,636
Constitution, and we will truly

740
00:25:57,674 --> 00:26:00,112
implement a powerful environmental and

741
00:25:59,150 --> 00:26:00,832
ecological policy.

742
00:25:59,932 --> 00:26:01,773
» Could you briefly explain the

743
00:26:00,802 --> 00:26:02,673
precautionary principle in the

744
00:26:01,702 --> 00:26:03,080
Constitution?

745
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:05,774
» Well, it was introduced by the Charter

746
00:26:04,824 --> 00:26:07,709
for the Environment, and today it has

747
00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:09,695
created case law that prevents us, for

748
00:26:08,745 --> 00:26:11,579
example, from scientific research on

749
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:13,514
corn and GMOs, and so on, which...all

750
00:26:12,565 --> 00:26:15,296
business leaders will tell you, it

751
00:26:14,347 --> 00:26:17,333
blocks projects and doesn’t even help

752
00:26:16,384 --> 00:26:19,709
the environment. The environment is

753
00:26:18,747 --> 00:26:22,024
fundamental; it is essential. So, if

754
00:26:21,078 --> 00:26:23,760
you like, I will detail what my

755
00:26:22,814 --> 00:26:25,821
ecological policy will be, and we are

756
00:26:24,875 --> 00:26:27,991
going to replace it with a principle of

757
00:26:27,045 --> 00:26:30,651
responsibility. We must not pollute, we

758
00:26:29,703 --> 00:26:32,258
must not endanger the lives of

759
00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:34,021
employees, we must not—you see,

760
00:26:33,072 --> 00:26:36,094
simple, effective general principles of

761
00:26:35,146 --> 00:26:38,115
law that truly protect. And then,

762
00:26:37,183 --> 00:26:40,785
everyone is free to allocate their own

763
00:26:39,854 --> 00:26:44,001
resources. It’s essential. We're

764
00:26:43,069 --> 00:26:46,397
going to set up a system, a single

765
00:26:45,465 --> 00:26:48,861
social allowance, which will ensure

766
00:26:47,930 --> 00:26:51,463
there's at least a € 500 income gap

767
00:26:50,531 --> 00:26:53,996
between those who work and those who

768
00:26:53,064 --> 00:26:56,597
don't, because we need to incentivize

769
00:26:55,665 --> 00:27:01,012
work again. Thanks to the reduction of

770
00:27:00,068 --> 00:27:03,248
unnecessary spending...Over the last 25

771
00:27:02,304 --> 00:27:05,204
years, the state has created 1,153

772
00:27:04,260 --> 00:27:07,439
senatorial reports, agencies, entities,

773
00:27:06,495 --> 00:27:09,674
and directorates that cost us this year

774
00:27:08,674 --> 00:27:11,518
, and that contradict each other,

775
00:27:10,574 --> 00:27:13,754
including the High Commission for this,

776
00:27:12,810 --> 00:27:15,598
the High Authority for that, the

777
00:27:14,654 --> 00:27:17,777
regional directorates, all these state

778
00:27:16,833 --> 00:27:19,845
services that cost...we are going to

779
00:27:18,901 --> 00:27:21,968
exceed 100 billion euros in operating

780
00:27:21,024 --> 00:27:24,816
costs. 100 billion euros. So we must

781
00:27:23,867 --> 00:27:26,745
reduce and eliminate all these things

782
00:27:25,796 --> 00:27:28,624
that feed on each other just to find

783
00:27:27,675 --> 00:27:31,297
spots for buddies. It has been a

784
00:27:30,346 --> 00:27:33,261
Republic of cronies and rogues, as they

785
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:35,176
say, with 500,000 extra hires, 500,000

786
00:27:34,225 --> 00:27:37,820
more public service employees. There

787
00:27:36,844 --> 00:27:38,695
are some very good people in there,

788
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:38,939
mind you.

789
00:27:38,058 --> 00:27:41,500
» Mind you. And well, we won't replace

790
00:27:40,568 --> 00:27:43,958
those who retire. We will reorient and

791
00:27:43,014 --> 00:27:46,319
eliminate most of these things. We will

792
00:27:45,379 --> 00:27:48,299
need to keep a few agencies that

793
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,099
guarantee independence and...

794
00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:51,730
» How do you judge which agency is

795
00:27:50,770 --> 00:27:54,231
useless? Which agency is useful? Well,

796
00:27:53,274 --> 00:27:55,889
it's very simple; it’s like when you

797
00:27:54,931 --> 00:27:57,546
arrive in a company, you say, "Show me

798
00:27:56,589 --> 00:27:59,668
the utility of what you do." People

799
00:27:58,703 --> 00:28:01,063
write memos to each other, and I say, "

800
00:28:00,063 --> 00:28:03,299
We don't care about your memos." You go

801
00:28:02,349 --> 00:28:07,242
to Bercy. French excellence at Bercy,

802
00:28:06,291 --> 00:28:08,957
except that many agents there only

803
00:28:08,006 --> 00:28:10,917
write memos to each other that serve no

804
00:28:09,966 --> 00:28:12,812
purpose. They serve no purpose. You see

805
00:28:11,812 --> 00:28:14,352
, you have to understand that creation

806
00:28:13,392 --> 00:28:16,089
requires an act of suppression. That is

807
00:28:15,128 --> 00:28:18,521
the whole paradox. It's like cooking,

808
00:28:17,567 --> 00:28:20,210
you reduce the sauce, and what about

809
00:28:19,256 --> 00:28:21,580
the agents at Bercy watching?

810
00:28:21,442 --> 00:28:24,110
» Yes, I embrace them, but they will be

811
00:28:23,155 --> 00:28:25,328
happy because they will be

812
00:28:24,373 --> 00:28:27,042
participating in the modernization of

813
00:28:26,087 --> 00:28:28,846
the state and the performance of France

814
00:28:27,846 --> 00:28:30,407
. And those who remain will be better

815
00:28:29,447 --> 00:28:31,862
paid than before, for those who are

816
00:28:30,903 --> 00:28:33,699
currently underpaid. Ultimately, we

817
00:28:32,761 --> 00:28:35,913
will become a modern power again, a

818
00:28:34,975 --> 00:28:37,573
modern state that will use

819
00:28:36,635 --> 00:28:39,726
digitalization and all the current

820
00:28:38,787 --> 00:28:42,299
means of performance. So we will have

821
00:28:41,358 --> 00:28:44,119
to launch three major projects

822
00:28:43,178 --> 00:28:46,710
simultaneously. A major prosperity law

823
00:28:45,755 --> 00:28:48,468
through the liberalization of economic

824
00:28:47,513 --> 00:28:52,332
activity. Removing bureaucratic, fiscal

825
00:28:51,332 --> 00:28:55,040
, social, and administrative overloads.

826
00:28:55,619 --> 00:28:58,677
A major law, or at any rate a major

827
00:28:57,736 --> 00:29:00,677
policy for restoring order, means

828
00:28:59,736 --> 00:29:02,736
rewriting the juvenile penal code,

829
00:29:01,794 --> 00:29:04,853
partnering with countries that have

830
00:29:03,912 --> 00:29:06,794
available prison space, like the

831
00:29:05,853 --> 00:29:08,970
Netherlands, and launching a program

832
00:29:08,029 --> 00:29:12,041
for 20,000 prison places. A policy

833
00:29:11,103 --> 00:29:14,528
aimed at breaking free from the grip of

834
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:16,891
European and high-court jurisprudence

835
00:29:15,953 --> 00:29:19,069
to control our population. We cannot

836
00:29:18,114 --> 00:29:20,846
envision the future of a nation without

837
00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:22,445
controlling its population, without

838
00:29:21,489 --> 00:29:24,077
deciding who comes in. A drastic

839
00:29:23,133 --> 00:29:25,948
reduction in immigration, better

840
00:29:25,004 --> 00:29:27,679
integration. Many immigrants actually

841
00:29:26,717 --> 00:29:28,929
agree with me. They tell me, "We can't

842
00:29:27,955 --> 00:29:29,904
take any more, it's not possible, you

843
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:31,164
have to turn off the tap." What? I am

844
00:29:30,196 --> 00:29:32,355
in a city with high immigration, and

845
00:29:31,387 --> 00:29:33,825
many immigrants support me. So, no

846
00:29:32,903 --> 00:29:36,110
issues there. The third policy is how

847
00:29:35,155 --> 00:29:37,815
we finally become a great educational

848
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:40,229
power again. How we set schools free.

849
00:29:39,329 --> 00:29:42,278
We must abolish the egalitarianism of

850
00:29:41,331 --> 00:29:44,640
the school zoning system. Public

851
00:29:43,725 --> 00:29:48,046
funding must follow parental choice, so

852
00:29:47,132 --> 00:29:51,368
all kids and all parents can put their

853
00:29:50,453 --> 00:29:54,178
child in the school they want. It

854
00:29:53,213 --> 00:29:55,577
shouldn't be the administration telling

855
00:29:54,612 --> 00:29:56,975
you, "You go to this school or that one

856
00:29:55,975 --> 00:29:58,339
," and we will have competition between

857
00:29:57,374 --> 00:30:00,385
institutions. Principals will choose

858
00:29:59,447 --> 00:30:03,873
who they admit. We will keep a network

859
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,471
of public schools at the level of

860
00:30:04,518 --> 00:30:07,350
former districts, centers of excellence

861
00:30:06,397 --> 00:30:08,854
with boarding schools and elite

862
00:30:07,901 --> 00:30:10,357
teachers to maintain consistent

863
00:30:09,404 --> 00:30:11,814
geographical coverage, but for

864
00:30:10,861 --> 00:30:13,694
everything else, we will fully liberate

865
00:30:12,740 --> 00:30:15,479
the school system, and there are many

866
00:30:14,526 --> 00:30:17,359
initiatives being taken simultaneously.

867
00:30:17,579 --> 00:30:20,372
There it is. Anyway, aren't you afraid

868
00:30:19,427 --> 00:30:22,571
that—it's interesting, but aren't you

869
00:30:21,626 --> 00:30:24,604
afraid that this logic will actually

870
00:30:23,659 --> 00:30:25,759
create inequalities?

871
00:30:24,939 --> 00:30:27,299
» But that is also counterintuitive.

872
00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:29,416
Today, we are the country in Europe

873
00:30:28,473 --> 00:30:31,663
where people are most trapped by their

874
00:30:30,721 --> 00:30:33,837
social conditions. I have a very simple

875
00:30:32,883 --> 00:30:35,214
point. I am the first in my family—

876
00:30:34,214 --> 00:30:36,392
well, along with my brother—to have

877
00:30:35,423 --> 00:30:38,221
earned my high school diploma. You have

878
00:30:37,264 --> 00:30:40,167
to understand that. For you, that might

879
00:30:39,219 --> 00:30:40,739
seem good.

880
00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:42,951
» No, but that's my case too. The current

881
00:30:42,009 --> 00:30:45,138
system is the most unfair, all in the

882
00:30:44,195 --> 00:30:47,388
name of egalitarianism. It creates

883
00:30:46,444 --> 00:30:49,493
inequality of opportunity and breeds

884
00:30:48,550 --> 00:30:52,222
inequity and injustice. The current

885
00:30:51,290 --> 00:30:54,855
system means that the middle and upper

886
00:30:53,923 --> 00:30:57,489
classes, a fortiori, bypass the entire

887
00:30:56,556 --> 00:30:59,919
zoning system; all the more or less

888
00:30:58,987 --> 00:31:02,485
leftist education ministers we've had

889
00:31:01,553 --> 00:31:05,051
who criticize independent schools and

890
00:31:04,118 --> 00:31:06,426
so on. I am a product of the secular

891
00:31:05,453 --> 00:31:07,746
public school system, you know. I never

892
00:31:06,793 --> 00:31:09,544
put my kids in private school. Well,

893
00:31:08,587 --> 00:31:11,309
but it was a different era, too. Uh,

894
00:31:10,356 --> 00:31:12,947
they all put their kids in private

895
00:31:11,994 --> 00:31:15,704
schools. It is absolute hypocrisy. So

896
00:31:14,747 --> 00:31:17,294
what we need is to put an end to the

897
00:31:16,337 --> 00:31:19,444
leveling down. All these children from

898
00:31:18,498 --> 00:31:21,325
modest backgrounds must be able to

899
00:31:20,379 --> 00:31:23,367
access the best schools, provided, of

900
00:31:22,421 --> 00:31:25,302
course, they work hard and meet the

901
00:31:24,355 --> 00:31:27,129
right adults who will raise them.

902
00:31:26,229 --> 00:31:28,251
Actually, we call them a "student"[

903
00:31:27,251 --> 00:31:29,391
élève], because you have to be raised

904
00:31:28,420 --> 00:31:30,355
[élevé] by someone higher than

905
00:31:29,384 --> 00:31:32,271
yourself, who is called an adult. I

906
00:31:31,323 --> 00:31:34,160
assure you that everywhere what I'm

907
00:31:33,212 --> 00:31:35,891
saying has been implemented—in

908
00:31:34,944 --> 00:31:37,675
certain Baltic countries, in some

909
00:31:36,727 --> 00:31:39,773
schools in Finland, in Finland, in some

910
00:31:38,826 --> 00:31:41,610
cantons in Switzerland, and now in

911
00:31:40,662 --> 00:31:43,499
Germany—everywhere it has worked.

912
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:47,246
Milton Friedman theorized this, but it

913
00:31:46,290 --> 00:31:48,888
works wonderfully well, and we do it

914
00:31:47,933 --> 00:31:50,486
because the current system is total

915
00:31:49,531 --> 00:31:52,173
hypocrisy in the name of equality; we

916
00:31:51,218 --> 00:31:53,860
use school zoning, sectorization, the

917
00:31:52,905 --> 00:31:55,636
administration tells you where you have

918
00:31:54,681 --> 00:31:57,412
to put your kid in school, for heaven's

919
00:31:56,457 --> 00:32:00,196
sake. What an authoritarian act that is

920
00:31:59,196 --> 00:32:03,334
. Honestly, well, and in the end, we

921
00:32:02,387 --> 00:32:05,340
realize that we are amplifying social

922
00:32:04,393 --> 00:32:07,188
inequalities; that the children of

923
00:32:06,241 --> 00:32:09,300
teachers know very well where they need

924
00:32:08,353 --> 00:32:11,148
to be, that the children of senior

925
00:32:10,201 --> 00:32:13,155
executives, of bosses, know very well

926
00:32:12,207 --> 00:32:15,267
where they need to be, even going on to

927
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:17,379
study abroad, and it's, it's fantastic.

928
00:32:17,539 --> 00:32:20,098
But it is time—that is why the

929
00:32:19,147 --> 00:32:21,853
working classes must have access to

930
00:32:20,901 --> 00:32:23,870
equal opportunity. It is time for the

931
00:32:22,908 --> 00:32:25,365
working poor to be the owners of their

932
00:32:24,403 --> 00:32:26,936
own retirement. That's why we're going

933
00:32:25,975 --> 00:32:28,455
to...I have been fighting for this for

934
00:32:27,494 --> 00:32:30,336
over 10 years. They will have a funded

935
00:32:29,374 --> 00:32:31,787
pension system, they will have access

936
00:32:30,825 --> 00:32:33,275
to financial markets, and they will be

937
00:32:32,313 --> 00:32:35,180
winners. There you go, the poorest, the

938
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:37,196
poorest workers will be less poor. It

939
00:32:36,265 --> 00:32:39,749
is time we defend the most modest in

940
00:32:38,818 --> 00:32:42,232
this country, not with what has led

941
00:32:41,301 --> 00:32:44,853
them to social stagnation, what traps

942
00:32:43,922 --> 00:32:47,267
them in poverty traps, in identity

943
00:32:46,336 --> 00:32:49,889
traps, but by liberating all of their

944
00:32:48,958 --> 00:32:50,579
capacity.

945
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:52,702
» By the way, if you prefer audio over

946
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:54,616
video, know that you can find our shows

947
00:32:53,663 --> 00:32:57,704
on all podcast platforms. You spoke

948
00:32:56,743 --> 00:32:59,204
about immigration, it's a point I find

949
00:32:58,242 --> 00:33:00,626
interesting because it is one of the

950
00:32:59,664 --> 00:33:02,087
subjects of the presidential election

951
00:33:01,125 --> 00:33:04,949
that will dominate the debate. For you

952
00:33:04,008 --> 00:33:07,179
today, is there too much immigration?

953
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:09,942
» Yes. Yes, there is too much immigration

954
00:33:09,002 --> 00:33:12,126
quantitatively, since in 2025, last

955
00:33:11,187 --> 00:33:14,492
year, I am talking about new residence

956
00:33:13,553 --> 00:33:16,734
permits. They are additional residence

957
00:33:15,786 --> 00:33:18,596
permits. It represented one and a half

958
00:33:17,637 --> 00:33:20,690
times the population of Corsica. There

959
00:33:19,736 --> 00:33:22,539
you go, it's 400,000 residence permits.

960
00:33:21,859 --> 00:33:24,961
I'm talking about additional residence

961
00:33:24,017 --> 00:33:25,460
permits.

962
00:33:25,639 --> 00:33:27,991
» Excluding asylum, mind you, because

963
00:33:27,030 --> 00:33:29,536
contrary to what a journalist corrected

964
00:33:28,575 --> 00:33:30,966
me on—he was wrong—and we aren't

965
00:33:30,005 --> 00:33:34,107
talking about illegal immigration. And

966
00:33:33,164 --> 00:33:36,304
of those additional residence permits,

967
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,557
only 17%are work-related; that means 83

968
00:33:37,557 --> 00:33:40,584
%are people who come and don't work,

969
00:33:39,641 --> 00:33:42,612
and who don't come for work—these

970
00:33:41,668 --> 00:33:44,752
people will probably find a job later

971
00:33:43,808 --> 00:33:46,779
and contribute to the economy, they

972
00:33:45,836 --> 00:33:49,695
aren't going to stay. No, I'm sorry,

973
00:33:48,756 --> 00:33:51,959
but we can tell ourselves stories as

974
00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:55,124
much as we want. The reality is that

975
00:33:54,177 --> 00:33:57,135
among the temporary residence permits

976
00:33:56,187 --> 00:33:59,039
issued for a reason of stay, 17%are

977
00:33:58,092 --> 00:34:02,000
linked to an employment contract. 83%

978
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,603
are not linked to that. It is a factual

979
00:34:03,666 --> 00:34:06,814
reality. Even at 25%, it would still be

980
00:34:05,865 --> 00:34:08,756
a problem. Even at 50%, it would be a

981
00:34:07,805 --> 00:34:11,668
problem. So the reality is that France

982
00:34:10,748 --> 00:34:14,215
must be a country that welcomes

983
00:34:13,295 --> 00:34:17,400
oppressed people, people in difficulty.

984
00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:20,828
Obviously, France is also about

985
00:34:19,889 --> 00:34:23,264
humanism, but you cannot import so much

986
00:34:22,325 --> 00:34:25,700
poverty, especially from countries that

987
00:34:24,761 --> 00:34:27,710
are in great difficulty and have

988
00:34:26,771 --> 00:34:29,903
different customs, without creating

989
00:34:28,964 --> 00:34:32,528
enormous unrest. And once again, who

990
00:34:31,561 --> 00:34:33,820
gets the short end of the stick in all

991
00:34:32,853 --> 00:34:35,949
this? It's the French people,

992
00:34:34,994 --> 00:34:37,651
regardless of their origin, including

993
00:34:36,696 --> 00:34:39,397
those from less recent migrations, who

994
00:34:38,442 --> 00:34:40,651
are in the poorest and most

995
00:34:39,696 --> 00:34:42,353
working-class neighborhoods, since we

996
00:34:41,398 --> 00:34:44,010
pack people into those neighborhoods

997
00:34:43,054 --> 00:34:46,118
because they are poor. So they go to

998
00:34:45,163 --> 00:34:47,634
neighborhoods where they can find

999
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,328
housing, where it's still possible to

1000
00:34:48,373 --> 00:34:50,934
find housing, and so we amplify the

1001
00:34:49,978 --> 00:34:53,639
problems. So it is a question of both

1002
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,199
social cohesion and a humanitarian and

1003
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:59,431
human one. We can no longer welcome

1004
00:34:58,529 --> 00:35:03,384
people who cannot find work, who cannot

1005
00:35:02,483 --> 00:35:07,140
find housing, it's just not possible.

1006
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,124
I've had classes in my working-class

1007
00:35:09,179 --> 00:35:12,089
neighborhoods where you have entire

1008
00:35:11,143 --> 00:35:14,053
classrooms where they say they need

1009
00:35:13,108 --> 00:35:16,127
allophone classes because a sometimes

1010
00:35:15,182 --> 00:35:18,255
very large majority of children do not

1011
00:35:17,310 --> 00:35:20,329
master, or master the French language

1012
00:35:19,384 --> 00:35:22,750
very poorly. It is not socially

1013
00:35:21,801 --> 00:35:24,602
possible. It is not possible. You are

1014
00:35:23,657 --> 00:35:26,527
amplifying social divides, you are

1015
00:35:25,582 --> 00:35:28,727
amplifying territorial divides, you are

1016
00:35:27,782 --> 00:35:30,866
amplifying every difficulty. So it is

1017
00:35:29,922 --> 00:35:32,978
both a question of social cohesion, a

1018
00:35:32,034 --> 00:35:35,201
question of order in every sense of the

1019
00:35:34,257 --> 00:35:37,671
term, and of public order. And it is

1020
00:35:36,735 --> 00:35:40,148
also simply a human question. So we

1021
00:35:39,197 --> 00:35:42,091
must welcome fewer people, but welcome

1022
00:35:41,141 --> 00:35:42,739
them better.

1023
00:35:43,059 --> 00:35:45,988
» But at the time, it's been 10 years now

1024
00:35:45,038 --> 00:35:47,720
that we know how to do it legally,

1025
00:35:46,770 --> 00:35:49,700
since François Fillon had proposed it.

1026
00:35:50,979 --> 00:35:53,580
It is that we must, through a

1027
00:35:52,636 --> 00:35:55,624
referendum, escape the vice of legal

1028
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:57,779
precedents and the over-interpretation

1029
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,751
of the founding texts of the European

1030
00:36:02,813 --> 00:36:06,208
Court of Human Rights, and so on, which

1031
00:36:05,269 --> 00:36:08,172
have caused the right to family

1032
00:36:07,234 --> 00:36:10,629
reunification, the right to immigration

1033
00:36:09,629 --> 00:36:12,409
—to put it simply—to take

1034
00:36:11,471 --> 00:36:14,681
precedence over the right to control

1035
00:36:13,743 --> 00:36:17,694
immigration. So we must do as almost

1036
00:36:16,748 --> 00:36:19,440
every nation in the world does,

1037
00:36:18,495 --> 00:36:21,624
including great democracies like Canada

1038
00:36:20,678 --> 00:36:24,157
and others. Saying, "Here is who we can

1039
00:36:23,219 --> 00:36:26,425
welcome," and regarding countries of

1040
00:36:25,486 --> 00:36:28,754
origin—it's not just about having a

1041
00:36:27,815 --> 00:36:31,493
vision; it's simpler. I mean, France

1042
00:36:30,548 --> 00:36:33,716
has the Mediterranean, there are people

1043
00:36:32,771 --> 00:36:35,939
coming from African countries who cross

1044
00:36:34,995 --> 00:36:37,940
the Mediterranean and end up on the

1045
00:36:36,996 --> 00:36:39,830
shores of Italy or sometimes even

1046
00:36:38,885 --> 00:36:43,280
France. How can we, then—the main,

1047
00:36:42,343 --> 00:36:45,481
the essential migratory flows take

1048
00:36:44,544 --> 00:36:47,809
place largely by land, so that's the

1049
00:36:46,871 --> 00:36:52,259
first element, second element. It's,

1050
00:36:51,327 --> 00:36:54,157
well, I mean, just as we...

1051
00:36:53,805 --> 00:36:56,546
» Is there a sense of humanism? Should we

1052
00:36:55,591 --> 00:36:58,358
have humanism? Those are the questions.

1053
00:36:57,458 --> 00:36:59,973
And afterward, should we also have an

1054
00:36:59,014 --> 00:37:01,571
international policy regarding African

1055
00:37:00,612 --> 00:37:02,022
countries?

1056
00:37:01,238 --> 00:37:03,800
» Well, several things in your question,

1057
00:37:02,841 --> 00:37:05,652
several things in your question. First,

1058
00:37:04,694 --> 00:37:07,206
it is always paradoxical to see that

1059
00:37:06,248 --> 00:37:08,760
often the same people who tell us we

1060
00:37:07,802 --> 00:37:10,315
can influence the climate—and I do

1061
00:37:09,357 --> 00:37:11,911
think we must fight against the human

1062
00:37:10,953 --> 00:37:13,941
part of climate change. So I can talk

1063
00:37:13,004 --> 00:37:16,971
about it at length if you wish. You

1064
00:37:16,022 --> 00:37:18,833
think we could manage to modify the

1065
00:37:17,885 --> 00:37:20,643
climate, but we couldn't manage to

1066
00:37:19,695 --> 00:37:23,478
control migratory flows? I find that

1067
00:37:22,539 --> 00:37:26,373
quite paradoxical. The second element

1068
00:37:25,462 --> 00:37:30,388
is that...There are several ways. There

1069
00:37:29,435 --> 00:37:31,954
are several—we have to look at

1070
00:37:31,002 --> 00:37:34,032
several parameters. Humanism is

1071
00:37:33,097 --> 00:37:37,020
primarily an individual approach. I

1072
00:37:36,081 --> 00:37:39,469
personally would not let someone die of

1073
00:37:38,530 --> 00:37:41,734
hunger or sleep outside. We try to

1074
00:37:40,767 --> 00:37:43,045
ensure that people can sleep and have a

1075
00:37:42,078 --> 00:37:44,290
roof over their heads in my town, and

1076
00:37:43,323 --> 00:37:46,356
so on. There is an element of

1077
00:37:45,397 --> 00:37:47,997
individual charity, but I am talking to

1078
00:37:47,038 --> 00:37:49,391
you about immigration as a social

1079
00:37:48,432 --> 00:37:50,868
phenomenon, and that is how we must

1080
00:37:49,909 --> 00:37:53,618
approach it in politics. By saying "we

1081
00:37:52,669 --> 00:37:55,541
regulate those who come" and "we must

1082
00:37:54,592 --> 00:37:57,414
welcome them," you create flows that

1083
00:37:56,464 --> 00:37:59,185
amplify the problem and the social

1084
00:37:58,236 --> 00:38:01,276
tragedy. Uh, those who are

1085
00:38:00,333 --> 00:38:03,575
pro-immigration today bear a very heavy

1086
00:38:02,633 --> 00:38:05,529
moral responsibility for, uh, the

1087
00:38:04,587 --> 00:38:07,484
development of all these smuggler

1088
00:38:06,541 --> 00:38:09,668
networks, uh, for, uh, besides, I saw

1089
00:38:08,726 --> 00:38:11,968
that in Germany, well, there was a case

1090
00:38:11,025 --> 00:38:13,750
against so-called humanitarian

1091
00:38:12,807 --> 00:38:15,991
associations that, in reality, uh, are

1092
00:38:15,049 --> 00:38:18,251
endorsing smuggler networks. So there

1093
00:38:17,298 --> 00:38:20,116
isn't a single nation in the world that

1094
00:38:19,163 --> 00:38:21,842
is a community of destiny, that is a

1095
00:38:20,888 --> 00:38:23,520
democratic community, which doesn't

1096
00:38:22,567 --> 00:38:25,199
want to control its own population.

1097
00:38:24,439 --> 00:38:28,458
It's logical. At some point, if we

1098
00:38:27,514 --> 00:38:30,416
decided to colonize, to invade, to

1099
00:38:29,472 --> 00:38:32,542
immigrate thoughtlessly elsewhere, it

1100
00:38:31,598 --> 00:38:35,423
would be rightly perceived poorly. So

1101
00:38:34,455 --> 00:38:36,342
here, there is no desire for

1102
00:38:35,374 --> 00:38:37,293
colonization, since these are

1103
00:38:36,325 --> 00:38:38,498
individuals who are trying to get by,

1104
00:38:37,529 --> 00:38:39,576
right? So it has nothing to do with

1105
00:38:38,603 --> 00:38:40,958
that. But what I mean is that the

1106
00:38:39,997 --> 00:38:42,383
social phenomenon ends up being just

1107
00:38:41,422 --> 00:38:44,547
about the same. So there are several

1108
00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:47,203
things. One, obviously we can better

1109
00:38:46,250 --> 00:38:49,067
control the borders, and while there is

1110
00:38:48,113 --> 00:38:50,790
no absolute system, whenever we have

1111
00:38:49,837 --> 00:38:52,514
made efforts in this regard, we have

1112
00:38:51,561 --> 00:38:55,163
managed to reduce the flow. Two, we

1113
00:38:54,222 --> 00:38:57,412
must put an end to this welfare state

1114
00:38:56,472 --> 00:38:59,484
model which is a vacuum that, that

1115
00:38:58,543 --> 00:39:01,188
draws in immigration. That is

1116
00:39:00,231 --> 00:39:02,866
self-evident. Look, I knew the world

1117
00:39:01,911 --> 00:39:04,706
from before. Look, we didn't just let

1118
00:39:03,755 --> 00:39:06,402
people, uh, die, uh, from illness.

1119
00:39:05,502 --> 00:39:07,961
That's not true. On the other hand, we

1120
00:39:06,989 --> 00:39:08,809
didn't treat the entire world,

1121
00:39:07,837 --> 00:39:09,849
including people from rich countries,

1122
00:39:08,877 --> 00:39:10,616
sometimes, for that matter.

1123
00:39:09,716 --> 00:39:11,703
» We should abolish the for

1124
00:39:10,803 --> 00:39:13,643
» Yes, of course, we must, we must return

1125
00:39:12,690 --> 00:39:15,483
to an emergency assistance system, but

1126
00:39:14,531 --> 00:39:17,371
not some kind of right that means—1.5

1127
00:39:16,418 --> 00:39:19,117
billion, it costs us 1.5 billion per

1128
00:39:18,164 --> 00:39:20,958
year—and that you are better treated

1129
00:39:20,005 --> 00:39:22,798
when you are in an irregular situation

1130
00:39:21,845 --> 00:39:24,544
than when you are regular, French or

1131
00:39:23,591 --> 00:39:26,054
not French, that's not even the

1132
00:39:25,101 --> 00:39:28,266
question, if you're poor, right? That's

1133
00:39:27,309 --> 00:39:29,935
a reality that, that I live; I chair a

1134
00:39:28,978 --> 00:39:31,561
hospital board of directors, you talk

1135
00:39:30,604 --> 00:39:33,102
about it, it's, it's not political,

1136
00:39:32,144 --> 00:39:35,472
it's not left or right. It is therefore

1137
00:39:34,506 --> 00:39:36,840
obvious that we must review the welfare

1138
00:39:35,874 --> 00:39:38,525
state system. It is obvious that we

1139
00:39:37,576 --> 00:39:40,251
need an international policy, and

1140
00:39:39,301 --> 00:39:42,179
notably at the European level, to, to

1141
00:39:41,230 --> 00:39:44,416
control external borders. It is obvious

1142
00:39:43,475 --> 00:39:46,531
that the, the, the source countries

1143
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:48,763
must be able to develop, hence at the

1144
00:39:47,822 --> 00:39:50,995
time the great initiative of Jean-Luc

1145
00:39:50,054 --> 00:39:53,169
Borloo, whom you know I am close to,

1146
00:39:52,228 --> 00:39:55,343
for the electrification and so on of

1147
00:39:54,401 --> 00:39:56,784
Africa. Well, all these questions, but

1148
00:39:55,813 --> 00:39:57,945
it is up to the countries to take their

1149
00:39:56,974 --> 00:39:59,497
destiny into their own hands. When you

1150
00:39:58,554 --> 00:40:01,560
look at the success of many African

1151
00:40:00,617 --> 00:40:03,680
countries, for that matter, and many

1152
00:40:02,738 --> 00:40:05,858
Asian countries, all the countries in

1153
00:40:04,915 --> 00:40:07,979
those regions of the world that knew

1154
00:40:07,036 --> 00:40:10,214
how to trust in investing in work have

1155
00:40:09,271 --> 00:40:12,580
made it out. The best example is Korea.

1156
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,792
I find that it's something we don't

1157
00:40:12,824 --> 00:40:15,555
talk about enough. You have the same

1158
00:40:14,609 --> 00:40:17,656
people, the same history, centuries of

1159
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:19,769
shared history. Exactly the same people

1160
00:40:18,769 --> 00:40:21,388
. And for political reasons, all of a

1161
00:40:20,430 --> 00:40:23,302
sudden, there's a border. You have one

1162
00:40:22,344 --> 00:40:24,897
in the north, they are communist, one

1163
00:40:23,939 --> 00:40:26,901
in the south, they are liberal. You

1164
00:40:25,949 --> 00:40:28,700
compare the—that doesn't mean there

1165
00:40:27,747 --> 00:40:30,593
aren't problems in South Korea, but you

1166
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,391
compare the way of life, the standard

1167
00:40:31,438 --> 00:40:34,047
of living per capita, the freedoms

1168
00:40:33,095 --> 00:40:35,799
between North Korea and South Korea.

1169
00:40:35,180 --> 00:40:37,888
There you go. There you go. So every

1170
00:40:36,935 --> 00:40:39,452
country can find its own path to

1171
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,894
development. And I encourage every

1172
00:40:39,924 --> 00:40:41,864
country to find its own path to

1173
00:40:40,894 --> 00:40:43,504
development. In any case, what is

1174
00:40:42,561 --> 00:40:45,796
certain is that the integrity of France

1175
00:40:44,853 --> 00:40:48,088
must be respected like the integrity of

1176
00:40:47,145 --> 00:40:50,323
any country on the entire planet, like

1177
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:52,214
the integrity of Congo, like the

1178
00:40:51,271 --> 00:40:54,277
integrity of the United States, the

1179
00:40:53,334 --> 00:40:56,168
United Arab Emirates, Australia,

1180
00:40:55,225 --> 00:40:57,940
Ireland, Algeria, Italy. There you go.

1181
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,059
To talk about the environment, since we

1182
00:40:59,110 --> 00:41:02,090
don't have that much time left, to talk

1183
00:41:01,140 --> 00:41:03,968
about the environment and ecological

1184
00:41:03,019 --> 00:41:05,948
policy, I imagine you are pro-nuclear,

1185
00:41:04,998 --> 00:41:07,978
that you are for the electrification of

1186
00:41:07,029 --> 00:41:10,304
France using nuclear power. Uh today,

1187
00:41:09,371 --> 00:41:12,926
the plants are struggling a bit and we

1188
00:41:11,993 --> 00:41:15,712
need to build new ones. Do we create an

1189
00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:18,193
energy mix with renewables? Do we go

1190
00:41:17,253 --> 00:41:20,514
full nuclear? How how do you foresee it

1191
00:41:19,514 --> 00:41:20,570
?

1192
00:41:19,974 --> 00:41:22,132
» Well, I am truly for the

1193
00:41:21,180 --> 00:41:23,924
decarbonization of growth. It means

1194
00:41:22,972 --> 00:41:25,575
human activity absolutely must be

1195
00:41:24,623 --> 00:41:26,255
decarbonized.

1196
00:41:25,355 --> 00:41:28,486
» Green growth. Yes, yes, of course. Yes,

1197
00:41:27,543 --> 00:41:30,103
yes, yes. It's it's where the

1198
00:41:29,150 --> 00:41:31,686
degrowthers uh have it all wrong,

1199
00:41:30,733 --> 00:41:34,190
really. It means that we will need a

1200
00:41:33,244 --> 00:41:36,350
lot of growth to finance the transition

1201
00:41:35,404 --> 00:41:38,509
and the change, and not degrowth, which

1202
00:41:37,563 --> 00:41:40,507
is an aberration from every point of

1203
00:41:39,561 --> 00:41:42,667
view, but I'm not sure we have the time

1204
00:41:41,721 --> 00:41:45,144
to talk about it. And uh and so for me,

1205
00:41:44,198 --> 00:41:47,256
I am the pragmatic approach. If one day

1206
00:41:46,282 --> 00:41:48,246
there is something other than nuclear,

1207
00:41:47,272 --> 00:41:49,160
well, there will be something other

1208
00:41:48,186 --> 00:41:51,112
than nuclear. Today, the least

1209
00:41:50,167 --> 00:41:53,077
carbon-intensive energy of all, the

1210
00:41:52,131 --> 00:41:55,150
most controllable, the most abundant,

1211
00:41:54,204 --> 00:41:57,059
and the cheapest—well, there are

1212
00:41:56,114 --> 00:41:59,242
actually two: nuclear and hydroelectric

1213
00:41:58,242 --> 00:42:00,279
, like a major dam.

1214
00:41:59,980 --> 00:42:01,180
» Uh

1215
00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:03,891
» Uh, so it is obvious—and I have been

1216
00:42:02,935 --> 00:42:05,672
saying it for years, and I said it at a

1217
00:42:04,717 --> 00:42:07,320
time when it was less easy—that we

1218
00:42:06,364 --> 00:42:09,101
must go all-in, given the current state

1219
00:42:08,145 --> 00:42:10,303
of science, on nuclear and

1220
00:42:09,348 --> 00:42:12,579
hydroelectric power. It’s a given.

1221
00:42:12,270 --> 00:42:15,589
Next, we must allow local projects to

1222
00:42:14,652 --> 00:42:17,906
proceed with renewable energies. I am

1223
00:42:16,943 --> 00:42:19,310
developing solar energy where I live.

1224
00:42:19,259 --> 00:42:21,653
We are going to have to use the power

1225
00:42:20,691 --> 00:42:23,945
of the oceans. Uh, there are all the

1226
00:42:23,003 --> 00:42:25,847
heating networks. I lead a very

1227
00:42:24,903 --> 00:42:27,899
pragmatic urban area. We are doing

1228
00:42:26,937 --> 00:42:29,339
solar, but we are also going to cover

1229
00:42:28,377 --> 00:42:30,741
the entire urban area with a heating

1230
00:42:29,778 --> 00:42:32,843
network. For example, we are going to

1231
00:42:31,902 --> 00:42:34,683
have the largest and the first

1232
00:42:33,742 --> 00:42:36,760
underground marine energy plant in

1233
00:42:35,819 --> 00:42:38,722
France. There are very few in Europe

1234
00:42:37,771 --> 00:42:40,812
that allow us to provide energy. We are

1235
00:42:39,854 --> 00:42:42,122
reducing energy-related carbon

1236
00:42:41,165 --> 00:42:43,644
emissions by 70%at a very low price

1237
00:42:42,686 --> 00:42:45,622
across a large part of the city. We are

1238
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:47,511
going to use energy from treated

1239
00:42:46,569 --> 00:42:49,416
wastewater. So we are very advanced in

1240
00:42:48,454 --> 00:42:50,835
this regard, very pragmatic and very

1241
00:42:49,873 --> 00:42:54,379
advanced. But those are local points.

1242
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,955
Energy is the foundation. If we want to

1243
00:42:55,999 --> 00:42:58,506
reindustrialize, we need abundant,

1244
00:42:57,550 --> 00:43:00,190
cheap, decarbonized energy because we

1245
00:42:59,235 --> 00:43:03,445
are in the 21st century. And so we need

1246
00:43:02,521 --> 00:43:06,713
an energy backbone, right? When dealing

1247
00:43:05,743 --> 00:43:07,745
with other subjects where you need

1248
00:43:06,774 --> 00:43:08,894
spontaneous order, and then in the end

1249
00:43:07,924 --> 00:43:09,720
the state comes along later

1250
00:43:09,179 --> 00:43:11,749
» Well, the state—in any case, the

1251
00:43:10,796 --> 00:43:13,597
state and its private partners—in any

1252
00:43:12,644 --> 00:43:15,353
case, there must be a backbone, which

1253
00:43:14,399 --> 00:43:17,109
is what was done in the 60s, and this

1254
00:43:16,155 --> 00:43:18,448
backbone must be nuclear and

1255
00:43:17,495 --> 00:43:20,329
hydroelectric today. The mix must not

1256
00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,276
be done, must not be irrational. The

1257
00:43:21,329 --> 00:43:24,272
mix must not be made to the detriment

1258
00:43:23,325 --> 00:43:25,743
of what is cheaper and more

1259
00:43:24,796 --> 00:43:28,789
decarbonized. Nuclear power, even when

1260
00:43:27,838 --> 00:43:30,721
including construction costs and waste

1261
00:43:29,771 --> 00:43:32,555
treatment, is more decarbonized than

1262
00:43:31,604 --> 00:43:34,487
solar and wind power, and furthermore,

1263
00:43:33,537 --> 00:43:36,321
we master the technologies; we don't

1264
00:43:35,370 --> 00:43:39,721
import stuff from China. So, it is

1265
00:43:38,771 --> 00:43:41,690
obvious that we must go all-in on that,

1266
00:43:40,739 --> 00:43:43,560
that wind power should be implemented

1267
00:43:42,609 --> 00:43:45,380
when there is local support, when it

1268
00:43:44,429 --> 00:43:47,053
doesn't concrete everything over,

1269
00:43:46,103 --> 00:43:48,825
because France has adopted the "net

1270
00:43:47,874 --> 00:43:50,695
zero artificialization" policy, which

1271
00:43:49,744 --> 00:43:53,755
is a completely idiotic measure. The

1272
00:43:52,814 --> 00:43:56,053
goal is good, as always. We must fight

1273
00:43:55,103 --> 00:43:58,015
against soil artificialization, but we

1274
00:43:57,066 --> 00:43:59,928
are starting from a top-down vertical

1275
00:43:58,978 --> 00:44:01,840
system that will be inapplicable, and

1276
00:44:00,891 --> 00:44:03,400
we are making many exceptions,

1277
00:44:02,451 --> 00:44:05,413
including the regime for wind turbines,

1278
00:44:04,464 --> 00:44:07,427
which—I don't know if you've seen the

1279
00:44:06,477 --> 00:44:09,440
reality of the underground installation

1280
00:44:08,490 --> 00:44:11,251
of wind turbines—is an incredible

1281
00:44:10,302 --> 00:44:13,432
amount of concreting. It's an

1282
00:44:12,477 --> 00:44:14,955
underground Atlantic Wall, not to

1283
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,567
mention the disfigurement of marine

1284
00:44:15,612 --> 00:44:18,180
landscapes, for energy that is more

1285
00:44:17,224 --> 00:44:21,692
expensive and less reliable. Because

1286
00:44:20,754 --> 00:44:24,106
the problem with what we've called the

1287
00:44:23,168 --> 00:44:26,397
mix is that we've injected solar and

1288
00:44:25,459 --> 00:44:28,812
wind power into the energy backbone by

1289
00:44:27,874 --> 00:44:30,979
giving them priority over nuclear.

1290
00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:34,380
However, nuclear is not—it's not

1291
00:44:33,444 --> 00:44:36,819
intermittent. So we turn off nuclear

1292
00:44:35,859 --> 00:44:38,419
power plants, we turn them back on, and

1293
00:44:37,459 --> 00:44:39,899
that means our nuclear plants have a

1294
00:44:38,939 --> 00:44:41,219
much lower utilization rate than

1295
00:44:40,259 --> 00:44:42,579
elsewhere in the world and a much

1296
00:44:41,619 --> 00:44:46,300
higher rate of wear and tear. So there

1297
00:44:45,385 --> 00:44:49,709
absolutely must be priority on the grid

1298
00:44:48,794 --> 00:44:53,118
for nuclear and hydroelectric, and then

1299
00:44:52,203 --> 00:44:56,441
local projects for so-called renewable

1300
00:44:55,526 --> 00:44:59,679
energy—essentially solar today, and

1301
00:44:58,765 --> 00:45:02,662
wind power as a supplement—to be

1302
00:45:01,747 --> 00:45:03,259
clear.

1303
00:45:03,499 --> 00:45:05,949
» Yes, yes, I see, I see very, very well,

1304
00:45:04,986 --> 00:45:07,139
and it's—and it's very clear.

1305
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:11,679
Speaking of the backbone, for energy.

1306
00:45:10,919 --> 00:45:13,492
In all other areas, are we

1307
00:45:12,553 --> 00:45:15,429
decentralizing, leaving as much

1308
00:45:14,489 --> 00:45:17,487
responsibility as possible to the

1309
00:45:16,547 --> 00:45:19,806
lowest possible level? That's it, just

1310
00:45:18,845 --> 00:45:20,776
to be sure I understand.

1311
00:45:19,876 --> 00:45:22,709
» Yes, sub—what we call subsidiarity.

1312
00:45:21,809 --> 00:45:25,286
Well, not for sovereign functions. I—

1313
00:45:24,286 --> 00:45:26,930
I am, my next question was: are the

1314
00:45:25,977 --> 00:45:30,089
French people ready for this? Do you

1315
00:45:29,134 --> 00:45:31,795
really think that the French, who are

1316
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,187
used to the sovereign state in

1317
00:45:32,232 --> 00:45:34,758
particular, but also to having the

1318
00:45:33,803 --> 00:45:36,285
State accompany them, to having a

1319
00:45:35,330 --> 00:45:37,901
welfare state around them, are they

1320
00:45:36,946 --> 00:45:40,912
ready for this? Either way, a choice

1321
00:45:39,959 --> 00:45:42,711
will have to be made. Either we

1322
00:45:41,765 --> 00:45:44,731
continue to impoverish ourselves, to

1323
00:45:43,785 --> 00:45:49,311
lock the poor into poverty, to—to

1324
00:45:48,375 --> 00:45:51,629
depend on over-indebtedness. I mean,

1325
00:45:50,670 --> 00:45:54,247
today, what is France? Do you realize

1326
00:45:53,290 --> 00:45:55,765
that we have an hour of recording,

1327
00:45:54,809 --> 00:45:57,620
we'll see about that. Perhaps,

1328
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,889
» But let's imagine it is an hour. While

1329
00:45:59,951 --> 00:46:03,245
we are recording, the State will have

1330
00:46:02,307 --> 00:46:05,539
generated 180 million euros in debt.

1331
00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:08,823
Okay? That's 300,000 euros per minute

1332
00:46:07,869 --> 00:46:10,220
currently in additional debt.

1333
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,484
Additional debt, that's 5,000 euros per

1334
00:46:11,538 --> 00:46:14,665
second. And the absolute cynicism is

1335
00:46:13,713 --> 00:46:16,464
that you go to a restaurant, you pick

1336
00:46:15,512 --> 00:46:18,257
out a good wine and everything. By the

1337
00:46:17,283 --> 00:46:19,148
way, it's getting worse and worse

1338
00:46:18,175 --> 00:46:20,171
because we have fewer and fewer means,

1339
00:46:19,197 --> 00:46:21,987
after all. But but in the end, you’re

1340
00:46:21,031 --> 00:46:23,655
handing the bill to your children and

1341
00:46:22,698 --> 00:46:25,366
grandchildren, but who can reason like

1342
00:46:24,410 --> 00:46:26,902
that, saying as long as it lasts a

1343
00:46:25,945 --> 00:46:29,216
little longer, you know? As long as it

1344
00:46:28,251 --> 00:46:30,199
lasts just a little longer.

1345
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:32,030
» There you go, that’s all dead. It’s

1346
00:46:31,057 --> 00:46:33,702
it’s cooked. The illusion is dead. So

1347
00:46:32,744 --> 00:46:35,360
we really must invent other things that

1348
00:46:34,401 --> 00:46:37,252
provide hope. And the the it’s not

1349
00:46:36,296 --> 00:46:38,934
the French people who think who think

1350
00:46:37,978 --> 00:46:41,770
that. Uh, there are a multitude of

1351
00:46:40,815 --> 00:46:43,423
French people who are, who know very

1352
00:46:42,468 --> 00:46:45,211
well that work must be better rewarded,

1353
00:46:44,256 --> 00:46:46,999
that investment must be better rewarded

1354
00:46:45,999 --> 00:46:48,607
, that we, we must be prosperous and

1355
00:46:47,652 --> 00:46:50,216
free in the 21st century, that this

1356
00:46:49,261 --> 00:46:52,004
requires: we can no longer stick to the

1357
00:46:51,049 --> 00:46:53,523
'45 model because it was based on

1358
00:46:52,568 --> 00:46:56,278
something else. It was based on

1359
00:46:55,339 --> 00:46:58,343
enormous productivity gains. It was

1360
00:46:57,376 --> 00:46:59,673
when we were having a lot of kids. We

1361
00:46:58,710 --> 00:47:01,017
are going to close 4,000 schools in

1362
00:47:00,054 --> 00:47:02,349
France in the next 5 years. We are

1363
00:47:01,381 --> 00:47:03,476
going to open 10,000 nursing homes.

1364
00:47:02,638 --> 00:47:05,614
It’s it’s it’s a colossal

1365
00:47:04,677 --> 00:47:07,972
upheaval, uh, between the ecological

1366
00:47:07,036 --> 00:47:10,522
revolution, the, uh, digital revolution

1367
00:47:09,522 --> 00:47:12,899
, and the demographic revolution. If we

1368
00:47:11,934 --> 00:47:14,079
reason like we did 100 years ago,

1369
00:47:13,113 --> 00:47:15,599
we’re dead. And today the entire

1370
00:47:14,643 --> 00:47:17,048
political class wants to make us

1371
00:47:16,092 --> 00:47:18,585
believe that we will return to the

1372
00:47:17,628 --> 00:47:20,077
glorious thirty years, playing on

1373
00:47:19,121 --> 00:47:21,454
nostalgia. There was, it was great

1374
00:47:20,488 --> 00:47:22,809
before. Wonderful. But we need to move

1375
00:47:21,833 --> 00:47:23,933
on to something else. What we are going

1376
00:47:22,963 --> 00:47:25,133
to do now will be great. The future,

1377
00:47:24,165 --> 00:47:26,328
we’re going to seize it, you know.

1378
00:47:25,919 --> 00:47:28,421
And, uh, there isn't a gene in the

1379
00:47:27,465 --> 00:47:29,967
French individual that consists of

1380
00:47:29,012 --> 00:47:31,558
thinking that you have to go to the

1381
00:47:30,602 --> 00:47:33,672
counter to get an allowance. That is,

1382
00:47:32,714 --> 00:47:36,111
that is false. It is, it is completely

1383
00:47:35,163 --> 00:47:37,676
false. The French, the French are

1384
00:47:36,718 --> 00:47:39,329
rational like all people in the world.

1385
00:47:38,429 --> 00:47:41,466
So if we create a society where the

1386
00:47:40,525 --> 00:47:43,679
counter pays more than the job, well,

1387
00:47:42,737 --> 00:47:45,614
they go to the counter. They aren't

1388
00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:49,499
stupid. They are, it's rational. But

1389
00:47:48,552 --> 00:47:51,635
that’s why when I spoke of incentives

1390
00:47:50,635 --> 00:47:53,558
, of guaranteeing a positive gap for

1391
00:47:52,612 --> 00:47:55,321
the worker compared to those who

1392
00:47:54,375 --> 00:47:57,298
don’t work, uh, that’s what will

1393
00:47:56,351 --> 00:48:01,280
recreate prosperity. Uh, it is truly

1394
00:48:00,354 --> 00:48:04,219
the, the basis for building the future.

1395
00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:06,460
» And I, I, uh...

1396
00:48:05,681 --> 00:48:07,639
» But you speak of prosperity,

1397
00:48:06,739 --> 00:48:10,120
» We are a nation of entrepreneurs. Uh,

1398
00:48:09,167 --> 00:48:11,721
look when, when Uber arrived, the

1399
00:48:10,768 --> 00:48:13,369
number of people who, who suddenly

1400
00:48:12,416 --> 00:48:15,252
created their, their...well, afterwards

1401
00:48:14,252 --> 00:48:16,900
, it evolved more or less well, and

1402
00:48:15,947 --> 00:48:18,642
precariousness too, but what does it

1403
00:48:17,689 --> 00:48:19,842
matter! There is a fantastic

1404
00:48:18,875 --> 00:48:21,101
entrepreneurial need, there is a need

1405
00:48:20,134 --> 00:48:22,195
for freedom, there is a need for

1406
00:48:21,228 --> 00:48:23,676
independence. I I It's not a majority

1407
00:48:22,711 --> 00:48:25,068
of French people who are entrepreneurs.

1408
00:48:24,168 --> 00:48:26,432
There are many, but it's not a majority

1409
00:48:25,464 --> 00:48:26,724
who are.

1410
00:48:25,979 --> 00:48:28,429
» Yes, but when you look at the the

1411
00:48:27,473 --> 00:48:30,099
wishes, it's it's constantly growing.

1412
00:48:29,699 --> 00:48:32,661
More and more people want to undertake,

1413
00:48:31,711 --> 00:48:34,522
the relationship to work is going to

1414
00:48:33,572 --> 00:48:37,287
evolve considerably. So, objectively,

1415
00:48:36,335 --> 00:48:39,205
I'm not saying we don't need businesses

1416
00:48:38,205 --> 00:48:40,979
, we need employees, we need, well, I

1417
00:48:40,027 --> 00:48:42,753
was an employee in my life, I was an

1418
00:48:41,801 --> 00:48:45,640
entrepreneur, I was both. We were

1419
00:48:44,689 --> 00:48:47,592
talking about prosperity, but—and you

1420
00:48:46,641 --> 00:48:49,153
mentioned examples earlier like

1421
00:48:48,202 --> 00:48:51,105
Thatcher—is there not going to be, if

1422
00:48:50,154 --> 00:48:52,911
you are elected in 2027, isn't there

1423
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,814
going to be a moment that will be hard

1424
00:48:53,863 --> 00:48:56,473
for the French before arriving at

1425
00:48:55,522 --> 00:48:58,622
prosperity? That is the question. I

1426
00:48:57,678 --> 00:48:59,123
want to.

1427
00:48:58,223 --> 00:49:01,180
» I'm not going to, I...I'm not going to

1428
00:49:00,232 --> 00:49:03,241
cheat on the...the question, but what I

1429
00:49:02,293 --> 00:49:05,251
want to say is that the hard moment is

1430
00:49:04,303 --> 00:49:07,312
now and it will be more and more...it's

1431
00:49:06,364 --> 00:49:09,321
that if we don't...if we remain on all

1432
00:49:08,373 --> 00:49:11,073
the nuances of...of socialism, of

1433
00:49:10,125 --> 00:49:13,083
conformism, of technocracy that...that

1434
00:49:12,134 --> 00:49:14,835
we are sold, or if we go into the

1435
00:49:13,886 --> 00:49:16,793
adventure of the extremes, it will be

1436
00:49:15,844 --> 00:49:20,472
even harder. That's it. That...do you

1437
00:49:19,565 --> 00:49:23,131
pay taxes? I think the pencil is a

1438
00:49:22,174 --> 00:49:25,139
great success. I wish you well.

1439
00:49:24,259 --> 00:49:27,902
» Well, I congratulate you on that. Do

1440
00:49:26,954 --> 00:49:29,867
you know that this year we are paying

1441
00:49:28,919 --> 00:49:31,730
with our taxes, we are paying seven

1442
00:49:30,781 --> 00:49:33,436
times more in taxes for just the

1443
00:49:32,488 --> 00:49:35,402
interest on the state's debt than for

1444
00:49:34,454 --> 00:49:38,149
the entire justice budget? And we lack

1445
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,432
prison space and we have

1446
00:49:38,484 --> 00:49:41,416
multi-recidivists on the streets. No,

1447
00:49:40,462 --> 00:49:43,219
but do you understand? That is to say

1448
00:49:42,261 --> 00:49:44,795
that everything you are telling me, I

1449
00:49:43,837 --> 00:49:46,330
am willing to hear it if things were

1450
00:49:45,371 --> 00:49:47,864
going well, but things are not going

1451
00:49:46,905 --> 00:49:49,399
well and will go less and less well.

1452
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:52,723
There will be losers when I implement

1453
00:49:51,780 --> 00:49:54,865
my policy, it will be the whole caste

1454
00:49:53,921 --> 00:49:57,119
of those who cling to their privileges.

1455
00:49:56,255 --> 00:49:58,937
Exactly. Yes, they will be losers. A

1456
00:49:58,005 --> 00:50:00,955
minority. What I was saying is that I'm

1457
00:49:59,998 --> 00:50:02,280
not for it, but of course not.

1458
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,162
» But of course not. because by managing

1459
00:50:04,233 --> 00:50:07,213
to reduce the dead weight of

1460
00:50:06,284 --> 00:50:10,443
over-administration. Why is it that in

1461
00:50:09,502 --> 00:50:12,805
Denmark, a highly administered country,

1462
00:50:11,864 --> 00:50:14,695
there are 24%administrative and

1463
00:50:13,754 --> 00:50:16,998
technical posts in hospitals, while we

1464
00:50:16,057 --> 00:50:19,982
have climbed to 35%? Why? It’s not

1465
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:22,505
inevitable. There is no inevitability

1466
00:50:21,566 --> 00:50:24,823
to multiplying management controllers

1467
00:50:23,884 --> 00:50:27,333
and reporting. I mean, the number of

1468
00:50:26,393 --> 00:50:29,619
stupid procedures and compliance in a

1469
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:31,965
company or a local authority—I spend

1470
00:50:31,026 --> 00:50:33,926
my life signing folders. Now, when I

1471
00:50:32,959 --> 00:50:35,094
sign a letter to a resident, I love

1472
00:50:34,126 --> 00:50:37,228
that. When I validate memos with 47

1473
00:50:36,291 --> 00:50:39,500
stamps and whatnot, I fight against

1474
00:50:38,563 --> 00:50:41,837
that. The requirements, the

1475
00:50:40,889 --> 00:50:43,772
deliberation reports, I have to sign

1476
00:50:42,825 --> 00:50:45,719
the thing 10 times. I don’t know,

1477
00:50:44,753 --> 00:50:46,897
maybe there’s a giant cellar in

1478
00:50:45,932 --> 00:50:48,284
France where we put all these documents

1479
00:50:47,284 --> 00:50:50,435
. I don’t know where it goes, or

1480
00:50:49,496 --> 00:50:52,759
maybe incinerators to produce energy.

1481
00:50:51,959 --> 00:50:54,542
At least that would be useful; the

1482
00:50:53,588 --> 00:50:56,449
point is, it’s not inevitable. When

1483
00:50:55,493 --> 00:50:58,026
we succeed in cutting spending—80

1484
00:50:57,069 --> 00:50:59,559
billion the first year, reaching a

1485
00:50:58,602 --> 00:51:01,267
cruising speed of 200 billion (we need

1486
00:51:00,311 --> 00:51:03,019
to hit 300 billion)—we will return 60

1487
00:51:02,019 --> 00:51:04,508
%, that’s 120 billion of the 200

1488
00:51:03,552 --> 00:51:06,216
billion in spending cuts, in immediate

1489
00:51:05,260 --> 00:51:07,881
purchasing power, right away, through

1490
00:51:06,924 --> 00:51:09,670
lower contributions. Contribute less to

1491
00:51:08,713 --> 00:51:12,740
earn more. I mean, the first winners

1492
00:51:11,780 --> 00:51:14,340
will be the people who work, the people

1493
00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:17,411
who want to get ahead. When we create a

1494
00:51:16,456 --> 00:51:19,104
funded pension system, the transition

1495
00:51:18,148 --> 00:51:20,484
will be very complicated, very

1496
00:51:19,529 --> 00:51:22,221
difficult, because we are currently in

1497
00:51:21,266 --> 00:51:25,379
budgetary apnea. But it remains that we

1498
00:51:24,436 --> 00:51:27,670
will ensure that people who earn little

1499
00:51:26,727 --> 00:51:29,674
money, who have low salaries, will

1500
00:51:28,732 --> 00:51:31,736
finally own their retirement with a

1501
00:51:30,794 --> 00:51:33,283
return far superior to the

1502
00:51:32,340 --> 00:51:35,574
pay-as-you-go system, which is finished

1503
00:51:34,574 --> 00:51:37,636
, and that’s what will allow us to

1504
00:51:36,693 --> 00:51:41,006
finance the economy. We will reinvest,

1505
00:51:40,053 --> 00:51:42,814
we will finally have French investment

1506
00:51:41,860 --> 00:51:45,183
funds. We won't be dependent on the

1507
00:51:44,252 --> 00:51:47,820
Americans, the Dutch, the Norwegians,

1508
00:51:46,890 --> 00:51:50,458
or the United Arab Emirates, who have

1509
00:51:49,527 --> 00:51:52,679
these immense investment funds.

1510
00:51:51,779 --> 00:51:56,032
» Exactly. Well, precisely on that note,

1511
00:51:55,105 --> 00:51:58,219
there is a growing sentiment,

1512
00:51:57,292 --> 00:52:00,988
especially among the young, that part

1513
00:52:00,061 --> 00:52:03,904
of the debt we have and must finance in

1514
00:52:02,977 --> 00:52:06,382
France is due to pensions and the

1515
00:52:05,455 --> 00:52:08,933
current system, and that a pension

1516
00:52:08,006 --> 00:52:11,557
reform moving toward capitalization

1517
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:14,181
could already alleviate much of the

1518
00:52:13,254 --> 00:52:17,320
debt we have today. Maybe overall, what

1519
00:52:16,369 --> 00:52:19,017
I mean is that perhaps this reform

1520
00:52:18,065 --> 00:52:20,810
alone is enough and no other reforms

1521
00:52:19,858 --> 00:52:22,294
are needed. Oh no, no, that won't work

1522
00:52:21,325 --> 00:52:23,784
here. Well, this reform, it's it's

1523
00:52:22,827 --> 00:52:25,392
unavoidable. I'll come back to the

1524
00:52:24,437 --> 00:52:26,387
pensions if you like.

1525
00:52:27,020 --> 00:52:30,201
» But what I mean is that we still have

1526
00:52:29,260 --> 00:52:31,969
to ask the question of public

1527
00:52:31,028 --> 00:52:34,268
dysfunction, meaning why you well, the

1528
00:52:33,327 --> 00:52:36,449
pension system makes up 25%of public

1529
00:52:35,508 --> 00:52:39,627
spending, so it's colossal. Over a

1530
00:52:38,673 --> 00:52:41,465
certain period, it was even half of the

1531
00:52:40,511 --> 00:52:43,112
increase in debt, you know. But

1532
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:46,415
regardless, why why is € 1 of taxes

1533
00:52:45,502 --> 00:52:49,804
in France less effective than € 1 of

1534
00:52:48,891 --> 00:52:52,846
taxes in almost all other European

1535
00:52:51,932 --> 00:52:57,863
countries? Why? The problem is that

1536
00:52:56,931 --> 00:53:00,229
this debate is fundamental, but it

1537
00:52:59,297 --> 00:53:02,663
shouldn't distract us from the even

1538
00:53:01,730 --> 00:53:04,893
more fundamental question of the

1539
00:53:03,961 --> 00:53:07,597
performance of the public sector, which

1540
00:53:06,597 --> 00:53:10,099
, well, occupies many of my thoughts.

1541
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,650
It works like in any organization. A

1542
00:53:12,701 --> 00:53:15,654
head of state should manage the state,

1543
00:53:14,706 --> 00:53:17,350
not manage society; I mean, they

1544
00:53:16,402 --> 00:53:19,303
shouldn't tell me what temperature to

1545
00:53:18,354 --> 00:53:21,176
take my shower at. We even had ads

1546
00:53:20,221 --> 00:53:22,897
telling us how long to shower and what

1547
00:53:21,941 --> 00:53:24,398
setting to put the thermostat on.

1548
00:53:23,498 --> 00:53:25,574
Whether I should wear a turtleneck in

1549
00:53:24,603 --> 00:53:26,709
winter, how many fruits and vegetables

1550
00:53:25,709 --> 00:53:27,791
—leave us alone. That's not your

1551
00:53:26,821 --> 00:53:28,800
problem. It's my problem as an

1552
00:53:27,830 --> 00:53:30,743
individual. Okay. Well, let them just

1553
00:53:29,793 --> 00:53:32,662
give us the information. You're yes,

1554
00:53:31,713 --> 00:53:34,619
it's very much like the Soviet Union.

1555
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,715
They'll tell you how much

1556
00:53:34,839 --> 00:53:37,351
» No, but through the energy backbone,

1557
00:53:36,393 --> 00:53:38,948
perhaps if it's the state controlling

1558
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:39,159
that

1559
00:53:38,399 --> 00:53:40,378
» But I didn't say the state should

1560
00:53:39,408 --> 00:53:41,889
control the energy backbone. I said the

1561
00:53:40,940 --> 00:53:43,930
citizen sees their energy bill and they

1562
00:53:42,981 --> 00:53:45,766
will optimize their behavior all by

1563
00:53:44,817 --> 00:53:47,643
themselves. They don't need it. I mean,

1564
00:53:46,672 --> 00:53:48,738
the state doesn't know how to manage

1565
00:53:47,768 --> 00:53:50,276
money. It takes more than elsewhere and

1566
00:53:49,315 --> 00:53:51,815
it runs higher deficits than elsewhere.

1567
00:53:50,915 --> 00:53:53,026
And it wants to explain to us how we

1568
00:53:52,057 --> 00:53:54,444
should live. But it's less capable than

1569
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,443
we are. Honestly, get rid of this idea

1570
00:53:55,494 --> 00:53:58,473
that's been shoved down our throats for

1571
00:53:57,524 --> 00:54:00,249
years in France, which consists of

1572
00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:02,228
saying that the larger the entity, the

1573
00:54:01,279 --> 00:54:04,157
more state-run, the more effective it

1574
00:54:03,207 --> 00:54:05,873
is. It's not true. I am for a state

1575
00:54:04,915 --> 00:54:07,558
that is strong in its sovereign duties.

1576
00:54:06,658 --> 00:54:08,959
So, it should worry less about what

1577
00:54:07,996 --> 00:54:10,260
doesn't concern it, especially our

1578
00:54:09,297 --> 00:54:13,071
private lives. Next, pensions. There is

1579
00:54:12,130 --> 00:54:15,374
obviously the need to acknowledge that

1580
00:54:14,433 --> 00:54:17,441
the pay-as-you-go system relied on

1581
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:19,803
three pillars, as I said earlier: labor

1582
00:54:18,862 --> 00:54:21,988
immigration, productivity gains, but

1583
00:54:21,047 --> 00:54:24,834
above all, a high birth rate. It is a

1584
00:54:23,888 --> 00:54:26,967
broad pyramid of contributors. We

1585
00:54:26,001 --> 00:54:28,059
aren't having children anymore.

1586
00:54:27,999 --> 00:54:30,661
Therefore, the pay-as-you-go system

1587
00:54:29,708 --> 00:54:32,323
cannot last, and even today, it is

1588
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:34,175
largely kept on budget life support by

1589
00:54:33,222 --> 00:54:36,922
the taxpayer. Even today, we have the

1590
00:54:35,989 --> 00:54:39,959
highest contributions in the world. We

1591
00:54:39,009 --> 00:54:41,959
spend three points more than Germany on

1592
00:54:41,009 --> 00:54:44,133
pensions. Yet our pensions are not that

1593
00:54:43,185 --> 00:54:46,215
high. That is the whole paradox. And

1594
00:54:45,248 --> 00:54:47,505
the system is exploding and doing so to

1595
00:54:46,538 --> 00:54:48,634
the detriment of the young and the

1596
00:54:47,667 --> 00:54:50,576
working population. Therefore, we need

1597
00:54:49,626 --> 00:54:52,459
a mandatory tier of funded pensions.

1598
00:54:51,899 --> 00:54:54,861
For pensions of at least € 2,000, we

1599
00:54:53,913 --> 00:54:56,669
will have to stop indexing them in

1600
00:54:55,721 --> 00:54:58,873
order to manage a transition. We will

1601
00:54:57,918 --> 00:55:00,582
have to review this whole system, but

1602
00:54:59,627 --> 00:55:02,246
there are also many retirees who are

1603
00:55:01,290 --> 00:55:03,909
struggling and having a hard time; I

1604
00:55:02,954 --> 00:55:04,719
see many of them.

1605
00:55:04,299 --> 00:55:06,779
» That is the worry with reforming this

1606
00:55:05,819 --> 00:55:08,379
system, too: making the young wealthier

1607
00:55:07,419 --> 00:55:09,819
but paradoxically impoverishing the

1608
00:55:08,859 --> 00:55:11,219
retirees if we go through with it.

1609
00:55:10,739 --> 00:55:13,387
» No, but we will have to—I am on the

1610
00:55:12,432 --> 00:55:14,947
liberal side—we do not call into

1611
00:55:13,991 --> 00:55:16,462
question a contract that has been

1612
00:55:15,507 --> 00:55:19,453
signed. So, a contract signed by people

1613
00:55:18,499 --> 00:55:21,188
back then, a social contract, must be

1614
00:55:20,233 --> 00:55:24,839
honored. But the issue, and you know

1615
00:55:23,892 --> 00:55:26,972
what is crazy, is that I recently heard

1616
00:55:26,025 --> 00:55:28,945
people in green-left politics saying

1617
00:55:27,999 --> 00:55:30,972
that we should have fewer children to

1618
00:55:30,025 --> 00:55:34,669
save the planet. It was even in a

1619
00:55:33,714 --> 00:55:36,449
Nathan guide, a Nathan school textbook

1620
00:55:35,494 --> 00:55:38,274
from 2000, that said the most effective

1621
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,008
way to preserve the planet is to have

1622
00:55:39,054 --> 00:55:42,790
fewer children. Can you imagine the

1623
00:55:41,835 --> 00:55:44,539
brainwashing we are doing to our kids?

1624
00:55:43,979 --> 00:55:46,376
But these are the same people who are

1625
00:55:45,414 --> 00:55:47,887
against funded pensions and say we must

1626
00:55:46,925 --> 00:55:50,354
keep the pay-as-you-go system. Yet, the

1627
00:55:49,411 --> 00:55:52,576
pay-as-you-go system can only work, it

1628
00:55:51,633 --> 00:55:54,685
can only make sense, if we have more

1629
00:55:53,742 --> 00:55:56,736
children; it was designed at a time

1630
00:55:55,793 --> 00:55:58,958
when there were 4.7, almost 5, workers

1631
00:55:58,015 --> 00:56:02,135
per retiree. Today, we are at 1.7. So,

1632
00:56:01,181 --> 00:56:03,912
these people who say both that we must

1633
00:56:02,957 --> 00:56:05,643
keep the system as it is, even though

1634
00:56:04,689 --> 00:56:07,101
it is bankrupt, and not to have

1635
00:56:06,146 --> 00:56:08,877
children—I think they shouldn't even

1636
00:56:07,923 --> 00:56:11,505
have the right to a pension. We have to

1637
00:56:10,547 --> 00:56:13,125
be consistent, because I have kids, I

1638
00:56:12,168 --> 00:56:14,788
want my kids to have kids, and I don't

1639
00:56:13,830 --> 00:56:16,408
want those who have children to bring

1640
00:56:15,450 --> 00:56:18,070
little debtors into the world who will

1641
00:56:17,113 --> 00:56:19,605
be saddled with debt to pay for the

1642
00:56:18,648 --> 00:56:21,140
retirement of those who are against

1643
00:56:20,183 --> 00:56:24,805
birth. As long as we don't pay the debt

1644
00:56:23,805 --> 00:56:28,340
, it's fine, but kids with a big debt

1645
00:56:27,402 --> 00:56:30,437
on their shoulders. Whose fault is it?

1646
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,238
The politician's.

1647
00:56:31,540 --> 00:56:33,665
» The politician is a Frenchman with a

1648
00:56:32,697 --> 00:56:34,260
mandate, you know.

1649
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:35,239
» Yeah, but

1650
00:56:34,401 --> 00:56:38,270
» Let's never forget that. Fault, I don't

1651
00:56:37,319 --> 00:56:40,128
like, I don't...fault is for everyone

1652
00:56:39,177 --> 00:56:41,614
to say. I don't know. What I mean is

1653
00:56:40,642 --> 00:56:42,633
that today, we have to change all of

1654
00:56:41,661 --> 00:56:43,450
that. There you go.

1655
00:56:42,676 --> 00:56:44,746
» The French have the feeling that it's

1656
00:56:43,775 --> 00:56:45,938
the politicians 'fault. That's why I'm

1657
00:56:44,967 --> 00:56:47,215
saying it. It's the politicians who are

1658
00:56:46,246 --> 00:56:50,139
precisely putting the country. Well,

1659
00:56:49,195 --> 00:56:52,384
the country has been poorly managed for

1660
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,112
too long, that's for sure. So the

1661
00:56:54,171 --> 00:56:57,411
politicians, no, the politicians, I'll

1662
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:59,878
paraphrase Simone de Beauvoir. Uh, one

1663
00:56:58,924 --> 00:57:01,612
is not born a politician, one becomes

1664
00:57:00,658 --> 00:57:04,019
one, there you go. Uh, there you go.

1665
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:05,473
» And maybe it's in becoming one that we

1666
00:57:04,473 --> 00:57:06,720
...But no, what I mean is there has

1667
00:57:05,756 --> 00:57:08,110
been a problem with the quality of the

1668
00:57:07,146 --> 00:57:09,465
representatives, you know, that's for

1669
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:11,555
sure. But the constituents chose them

1670
00:57:10,590 --> 00:57:12,938
too, you know. Anyway, so we're not

1671
00:57:11,976 --> 00:57:15,552
going to dwell on the past. Uh, and

1672
00:57:14,632 --> 00:57:18,639
then it's really a system of a system.

1673
00:57:19,299 --> 00:57:22,376
Meaning the system today, as it has

1674
00:57:21,435 --> 00:57:24,513
evolved based on the emotional, for

1675
00:57:23,572 --> 00:57:26,709
which every French person also has a

1676
00:57:25,768 --> 00:57:29,520
responsibility. Uh, for every news

1677
00:57:28,573 --> 00:57:31,493
event, we made a law, we piled on an

1678
00:57:30,546 --> 00:57:33,520
extra layer of regulation, and so on.

1679
00:57:33,419 --> 00:57:36,468
Resulting today in this textual

1680
00:57:35,534 --> 00:57:39,046
harassment that I mentioned earlier, a

1681
00:57:38,112 --> 00:57:41,686
hyperinflation of texts. We went from

1682
00:57:40,728 --> 00:57:43,376
100,000 words in the environmental code

1683
00:57:42,376 --> 00:57:45,323
. 12 years ago to 1,200,000 words today

1684
00:57:44,323 --> 00:57:47,176
, uh, things that are inapplicable and

1685
00:57:46,225 --> 00:57:49,032
don't defend the environment. And if it

1686
00:57:48,065 --> 00:57:50,207
actually helped the environment, at

1687
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,480
least it would be understandable, but,

1688
00:57:50,513 --> 00:57:52,655
uh, the principles of environmental

1689
00:57:51,688 --> 00:57:53,863
defense, we've known them for a long

1690
00:57:52,895 --> 00:57:55,240
time. That the polluter must be

1691
00:57:54,283 --> 00:57:56,812
sanctioned, we must not threaten the

1692
00:57:55,854 --> 00:57:58,836
ecosystem, and so on and so forth. Well

1693
00:57:57,836 --> 00:58:01,214
, and, uh, so what is needed today is

1694
00:58:00,278 --> 00:58:03,783
to change those who govern, but also to

1695
00:58:02,848 --> 00:58:06,160
change the governance as I mentioned

1696
00:58:05,225 --> 00:58:06,739
earlier.

1697
00:58:05,859 --> 00:58:08,547
» To change, and I'm coming back to the

1698
00:58:07,592 --> 00:58:10,399
transition, it takes time. In reality,

1699
00:58:09,441 --> 00:58:11,992
if you are elected, you have 5 years,

1700
00:58:11,034 --> 00:58:13,626
you won't be able to do everything you

1701
00:58:12,668 --> 00:58:15,389
want in 5 years. Maybe, maybe you have

1702
00:58:14,420 --> 00:58:16,652
the ambition to do it in 5 years. But

1703
00:58:15,686 --> 00:58:18,298
how do you do it? Because like all the

1704
00:58:17,345 --> 00:58:20,071
predecessors of political figures who

1705
00:58:19,117 --> 00:58:21,890
have been presidents, in the end, time

1706
00:58:20,937 --> 00:58:23,616
is also what they lack to give great

1707
00:58:22,662 --> 00:58:24,036
answers.

1708
00:58:23,136 --> 00:58:25,598
» Several things. First, I think you need

1709
00:58:24,637 --> 00:58:27,421
to have character. You must not be

1710
00:58:26,487 --> 00:58:29,665
obsessed with your image and your

1711
00:58:28,731 --> 00:58:30,457
popularity.

1712
00:58:29,557 --> 00:58:31,156
» Are you not?

1713
00:58:30,299 --> 00:58:34,094
» No. Truly, no. There you go. A

1714
00:58:33,123 --> 00:58:35,242
political figure without being full of

1715
00:58:34,272 --> 00:58:36,290
themselves. No, no, but I'm not the

1716
00:58:35,316 --> 00:58:37,565
only one. I know plenty of mayors and

1717
00:58:36,599 --> 00:58:40,108
such. They have, in the sense that, no,

1718
00:58:39,175 --> 00:58:42,754
it's always wonderful to feel love and

1719
00:58:41,822 --> 00:58:44,954
support, right? But if you're in

1720
00:58:43,989 --> 00:58:46,274
politics to be loved, you should just

1721
00:58:45,309 --> 00:58:47,539
get a cocker spaniel. It's

1722
00:58:47,019 --> 00:58:49,885
» No, because furthermore, it distorts

1723
00:58:48,937 --> 00:58:51,793
your personality. So yes, I think so,

1724
00:58:50,834 --> 00:58:53,462
but I won't name them, though there are

1725
00:58:52,504 --> 00:58:55,221
some I like a lot, by the way. But what

1726
00:58:54,267 --> 00:58:57,045
you need to do is seek to be respected.

1727
00:58:56,145 --> 00:58:58,574
It's the difference between trying to

1728
00:58:57,613 --> 00:59:00,137
convince and trying to seduce. I don't

1729
00:58:59,175 --> 00:59:01,504
seek to seduce, I seek to convince.

1730
00:59:00,604 --> 00:59:03,116
There is PR all the time, of course.

1731
00:59:02,819 --> 00:59:05,991
It's obvious, well, but it's very, very

1732
00:59:05,046 --> 00:59:08,219
important to try to bring people along.

1733
00:59:09,479 --> 00:59:11,918
I see it in my municipality, where

1734
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,568
there was never a mayor elected in the

1735
00:59:12,611 --> 00:59:15,840
first round. I was elected, re-elected.

1736
00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:17,376
Maybe if I run again, I'll get crushed,

1737
00:59:16,413 --> 00:59:19,433
I don't know. But there are people who

1738
00:59:18,472 --> 00:59:20,991
don't entirely agree with me, who don't

1739
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:22,432
like my personality, but there is an

1740
00:59:21,471 --> 00:59:23,990
alignment between what I say, who I am,

1741
00:59:23,029 --> 00:59:25,431
and what I do, and that is truly the

1742
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:27,885
foundation. For that reason, I wrote a

1743
00:59:26,928 --> 00:59:29,451
book about Pompidou with Christophe

1744
00:59:28,495 --> 00:59:31,148
Tardieu; that was really what made him

1745
00:59:30,192 --> 00:59:32,745
inspire such trust. He was the most

1746
00:59:31,786 --> 00:59:34,415
popular president during those 5 years.

1747
00:59:33,515 --> 00:59:36,674
He was present, since he died after 5

1748
00:59:35,732 --> 00:59:38,833
years, and at the time, that was it.

1749
00:59:37,933 --> 00:59:41,001
But it's because there was an alignment

1750
00:59:40,001 --> 00:59:42,964
, and I think that is very important.

1751
00:59:42,219 --> 00:59:45,283
Then, you must say things from the

1752
00:59:44,344 --> 00:59:47,591
start, beforehand, of course, because

1753
00:59:46,652 --> 00:59:49,899
you mustn't catch people by surprise.

1754
00:59:49,099 --> 00:59:51,285
You have to be credible; you have to

1755
00:59:50,318 --> 00:59:52,538
say, "Here, if I am in power, here is

1756
00:59:51,571 --> 00:59:55,239
what I will do." Above all, people must

1757
00:59:54,278 --> 00:59:56,761
not feel dispossessed of power the day

1758
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,406
after you are elected. That's what has

1759
00:59:57,444 --> 01:00:00,027
happened very often. Hence the

1760
00:59:59,090 --> 01:00:02,173
necessity, I think, to evolve the

1761
01:00:01,236 --> 01:00:04,382
institutions and to facilitate the

1762
01:00:03,445 --> 01:00:06,849
popular initiative referendum. I look a

1763
01:00:05,878 --> 01:00:07,992
lot at what is happening in Switzerland

1764
01:00:06,992 --> 01:00:09,784
. I find it to be a very interesting

1765
01:00:08,832 --> 01:00:11,709
model in several areas. Uh, next, with

1766
01:00:10,756 --> 01:00:13,432
the people working around me, we are

1767
01:00:12,479 --> 01:00:15,295
working on a massive plan for the first

1768
01:00:14,341 --> 01:00:17,357
few months. It sounds a bit cliché,

1769
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,758
but it's essential. I go back to

1770
01:00:17,794 --> 01:00:21,320
General de Gaulle in '58. In '58,

1771
01:00:20,369 --> 01:00:23,173
between de Gaulle as President of the

1772
01:00:22,221 --> 01:00:25,074
Council when René Coty left power and

1773
01:00:24,123 --> 01:00:26,927
de Gaulle of the 5th Republic, 8 or 9

1774
01:00:25,976 --> 01:00:29,679
months passed. A very interesting

1775
01:00:28,733 --> 01:00:31,581
period with Pinay and Rueff. He

1776
01:00:30,642 --> 01:00:33,694
launched the Rueff plan of extreme

1777
01:00:32,754 --> 01:00:35,459
radicality. He completely turned around

1778
01:00:34,493 --> 01:00:36,686
public accounts. He set the country

1779
01:00:35,715 --> 01:00:37,132
back on track.

1780
01:00:36,232 --> 01:00:37,977
» That's what you want to do.

1781
01:00:37,077 --> 01:00:40,289
» 335 ordinances in less than 9 months.

1782
01:00:39,389 --> 01:00:42,570
335 ordinances in less than 9 months.

1783
01:00:41,700 --> 01:00:44,438
So, I am working on a massive project

1784
01:00:43,485 --> 01:00:46,036
around the three axes I mentioned

1785
01:00:45,083 --> 01:00:48,060
earlier. A major law to liberate the

1786
01:00:47,115 --> 01:00:49,980
economy, a major policy to restore

1787
01:00:49,035 --> 01:00:52,011
order, a major policy of educational

1788
01:00:51,065 --> 01:00:54,151
and scientific ambition, and therefore

1789
01:00:53,205 --> 01:00:55,961
with referendums when necessary,

1790
01:00:55,016 --> 01:00:58,156
organic laws when necessary, ordinances

1791
01:00:57,211 --> 01:01:00,296
when necessary, and ordinary laws when

1792
01:00:59,351 --> 01:01:01,750
necessary. That's why we have to

1793
01:01:00,779 --> 01:01:02,836
prepare for the legislative elections

1794
01:01:01,864 --> 01:01:02,979
too.

1795
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:04,631
» Do you believe in your election today?

1796
01:01:03,731 --> 01:01:05,049
Well,

1797
01:01:04,149 --> 01:01:08,119
» I wouldn't be here with you otherwise.

1798
01:01:07,759 --> 01:01:10,912
» Yes, but I ask you the question because

1799
01:01:09,967 --> 01:01:13,121
there was the debate at the MEDEF where

1800
01:01:12,176 --> 01:01:15,827
you were not among the main ones. You

1801
01:01:14,876 --> 01:01:17,609
had a debate with Fab Roussel, much

1802
01:01:16,658 --> 01:01:18,599
better, by the way,

1803
01:01:18,044 --> 01:01:20,866
» Thanks to Fabien Roussel. But no, but

1804
01:01:19,914 --> 01:01:22,643
at least we had two, plus, I mean, I

1805
01:01:21,691 --> 01:01:24,397
respect Fabien Roussel a lot. We had

1806
01:01:23,432 --> 01:01:25,104
already hosted him.

1807
01:01:24,879 --> 01:01:27,532
» There you go, I have no issues, he is a

1808
01:01:26,575 --> 01:01:29,294
communist. I am for freedom. Well,

1809
01:01:28,333 --> 01:01:30,429
there you go, so we have two

1810
01:01:29,468 --> 01:01:31,877
contradictory visions, but we talked

1811
01:01:30,917 --> 01:01:32,739
about it in the rest.

1812
01:01:31,959 --> 01:01:34,703
» But precisely, because of that, some

1813
01:01:33,751 --> 01:01:36,641
media consider you a "small candidate,"

1814
01:01:35,689 --> 01:01:38,288
I don't like that expression, but

1815
01:01:37,337 --> 01:01:41,260
anyway, it means what it means. Do you

1816
01:01:40,318 --> 01:01:42,917
believe in the polls? How do you

1817
01:01:41,945 --> 01:01:44,016
position yourself for the presidential

1818
01:01:43,044 --> 01:01:45,980
election? How do we act, then, in your

1819
01:01:45,036 --> 01:01:47,283
position? How do you prepare for the

1820
01:01:46,308 --> 01:01:47,849
presidential election?

1821
01:01:46,949 --> 01:01:49,878
» Well, in life, you know, you need

1822
01:01:48,936 --> 01:01:52,344
belief. We are always—the human being

1823
01:01:51,405 --> 01:01:54,548
is spiritual, we need love, we need

1824
01:01:53,609 --> 01:01:57,154
faith, we need hope. Very well. But in

1825
01:01:56,194 --> 01:01:58,726
this case, I try not to be in the realm

1826
01:01:57,766 --> 01:02:00,949
of belief. I am like when I take the

1827
01:02:00,014 --> 01:02:02,319
start of a marathon.

1828
01:02:02,479 --> 01:02:05,118
» No, and if you want to be realistic,

1829
01:02:04,163 --> 01:02:06,757
I'm not doing this for—well, that

1830
01:02:05,802 --> 01:02:08,487
would annoy some politicians who like

1831
01:02:07,533 --> 01:02:09,990
it when I say it, but it's not a

1832
01:02:09,035 --> 01:02:11,811
question of wanting it or not, contrary

1833
01:02:10,857 --> 01:02:13,496
to me, because everyone says the one

1834
01:02:12,541 --> 01:02:16,077
who wants it the most, whatever. If you

1835
01:02:15,110 --> 01:02:17,234
do it just because you want to, it

1836
01:02:16,267 --> 01:02:19,775
feels a bit adolescent, you know. So,

1837
01:02:18,848 --> 01:02:22,666
it's a...I feel like I'm, well, I don't

1838
01:02:21,738 --> 01:02:26,300
feel illegitimate. I long thought that

1839
01:02:25,358 --> 01:02:28,039
I, that this wasn't my world.

1840
01:02:27,379 --> 01:02:28,899
» Yeah.

1841
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:30,785
» And that if I go for it, it's because I

1842
01:02:29,828 --> 01:02:32,494
no longer identified with the political

1843
01:02:31,537 --> 01:02:34,093
options. I get the feeling there's a

1844
01:02:33,132 --> 01:02:35,616
big, that there's no lack of political

1845
01:02:34,655 --> 01:02:38,292
demand in France. That's what makes me,

1846
01:02:37,354 --> 01:02:40,387
that's what makes me think we can

1847
01:02:39,448 --> 01:02:42,727
really govern the country effectively

1848
01:02:41,789 --> 01:02:45,396
again. It's that a large part of the

1849
01:02:44,442 --> 01:02:46,919
population, not the ones we hear

1850
01:02:45,965 --> 01:02:48,441
protesting, the professionals of

1851
01:02:47,487 --> 01:02:50,286
righteous indignation, the social media

1852
01:02:49,333 --> 01:02:51,947
mobs, it's...I had the same ones 40

1853
01:02:50,993 --> 01:02:53,654
years ago, with the red balloons and

1854
01:02:52,700 --> 01:02:55,499
all that, telling you about the protest

1855
01:02:54,499 --> 01:02:57,299
, the thing, well, Pavlovian responses.

1856
01:02:57,380 --> 01:02:59,988
No, the majority of people who live

1857
01:02:59,034 --> 01:03:01,689
their lives, who are humble, who are

1858
01:03:00,735 --> 01:03:03,482
discreet, what I call the real people,

1859
01:03:02,528 --> 01:03:05,229
it's this beautiful France that wants

1860
01:03:04,275 --> 01:03:07,248
to rediscover the great France. I want,

1861
01:03:06,295 --> 01:03:09,039
I am, I'm proposing the great France.

1862
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,503
So I think there is no problem with

1863
01:03:09,539 --> 01:03:12,023
political demand. There is a majority

1864
01:03:11,064 --> 01:03:13,606
political demand that is orphaned from

1865
01:03:12,646 --> 01:03:15,229
a clear and distinct political proposal

1866
01:03:14,229 --> 01:03:17,110
. There is still supply, it's just

1867
01:03:16,152 --> 01:03:18,498
scattered. That's why I proposed a

1868
01:03:17,534 --> 01:03:19,581
primary, something like that.

1869
01:03:18,861 --> 01:03:21,427
» And my problem, you're right, is that

1870
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:22,994
today I don't appear like the people

1871
01:03:22,036 --> 01:03:24,576
who can win. I'm aware of all that, you

1872
01:03:23,611 --> 01:03:26,595
know. I'm not going to give you some

1873
01:03:25,651 --> 01:03:28,695
super dynamic pitch. I have momentum,

1874
01:03:27,746 --> 01:03:30,714
but this momentum is starting from zero

1875
01:03:29,714 --> 01:03:32,606
, so yes, there is momentum. Yes, but

1876
01:03:31,654 --> 01:03:34,405
is it—well, people tell me I should

1877
01:03:33,453 --> 01:03:36,252
never say that, but I don't care, it's

1878
01:03:35,299 --> 01:03:38,679
the reality. But I feel good about the

1879
01:03:37,728 --> 01:03:40,144
approach, with some irony and

1880
01:03:39,193 --> 01:03:41,219
self-deprecation too.

1881
01:03:40,356 --> 01:03:42,426
» Does that allow you to be freer as well

1882
01:03:41,426 --> 01:03:42,701
, perhaps?

1883
01:03:41,801 --> 01:03:44,858
» Yeah. And yes. And above all, I—when

1884
01:03:43,908 --> 01:03:46,808
we really work, I really work, I truly

1885
01:03:45,858 --> 01:03:47,900
work. There you go. I

1886
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:51,000
» I, I really work. I don't know how else

1887
01:03:50,035 --> 01:03:52,466
to tell you. It's that I accept a

1888
01:03:51,511 --> 01:03:53,645
counterargument if it's a

1889
01:03:52,691 --> 01:03:55,597
counterargument based on substance. Not

1890
01:03:54,656 --> 01:03:58,455
if it's just a posture or a belief. Yes

1891
01:03:57,455 --> 01:04:00,233
, but not if it's just chanting slogans

1892
01:03:59,233 --> 01:04:03,483
. Exactly. And I, it's like a

1893
01:04:02,542 --> 01:04:05,789
competition when I, when I sign up for

1894
01:04:04,848 --> 01:04:07,622
a trail run or a marathon or a

1895
01:04:06,681 --> 01:04:10,694
half-marathon or whatever. Well, I go

1896
01:04:09,733 --> 01:04:12,043
for it, I try to get the best time

1897
01:04:11,082 --> 01:04:13,431
possible. I'm going there to win the

1898
01:04:12,466 --> 01:04:15,278
marathon, that I can't do. But, you see

1899
01:04:14,278 --> 01:04:17,188
, when I when I ran for the municipal

1900
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:19,150
elections in Cannes, people explained

1901
01:04:18,201 --> 01:04:21,111
to me quite learnedly for a long time

1902
01:04:20,163 --> 01:04:22,299
that it wasn't for me.

1903
01:04:21,439 --> 01:04:25,199
» Right, for a very long time. Uh, they

1904
01:04:24,249 --> 01:04:26,797
told me later there was another

1905
01:04:25,847 --> 01:04:28,745
candidate, the UMP hadn't endorsed me,

1906
01:04:27,795 --> 01:04:30,642
and then, "Yes, but you..." No, wait,

1907
01:04:29,692 --> 01:04:32,490
commerce was at once too popular but

1908
01:04:31,540 --> 01:04:35,052
also too intellectual. Basically, they

1909
01:04:34,078 --> 01:04:36,098
criticized everything at the same time.

1910
01:04:35,219 --> 01:04:38,054
Well, and then finally I went for it

1911
01:04:37,105 --> 01:04:39,966
and it worked. I didn't take a

1912
01:04:39,019 --> 01:04:41,961
ministerial post that brought instant

1913
01:04:41,014 --> 01:04:44,587
notoriety. But all the better, it

1914
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:46,519
bothers this caste, this conformism.

1915
01:04:46,119 --> 01:04:48,882
All the better, I want to shatter this

1916
01:04:47,929 --> 01:04:50,747
conformism. It's making the country

1917
01:04:49,790 --> 01:04:52,035
lose, it betrays people, it's

1918
01:04:51,078 --> 01:04:53,581
unconscious, but they all think the

1919
01:04:52,624 --> 01:04:55,994
same. You see it clearly, you feel

1920
01:04:55,031 --> 01:04:57,654
exactly what I'm saying. There's the

1921
01:04:56,695 --> 01:04:59,269
same language, there's the same way of

1922
01:04:58,310 --> 01:05:01,368
being. Even when they try to act cool,

1923
01:05:00,409 --> 01:05:02,720
they make the cover of a popular

1924
01:05:01,761 --> 01:05:04,236
magazine, they put their jacket over

1925
01:05:03,277 --> 01:05:05,792
their shoulder, with the kids, and we

1926
01:05:04,833 --> 01:05:06,899
pose looking at the thing,

1927
01:05:06,381 --> 01:05:09,830
» They're serving fries now. Yes, but I

1928
01:05:08,875 --> 01:05:11,591
don't even want to go there, but there

1929
01:05:10,637 --> 01:05:13,398
have been worse things; well, maybe the

1930
01:05:12,443 --> 01:05:15,983
moment was nice too, I don't know. So I

1931
01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:19,639
saw that, but see, even the language.

1932
01:05:18,817 --> 01:05:21,635
So sometimes they play the wise, a bit

1933
01:05:20,683 --> 01:05:23,406
knowing, a bit solemn because of the

1934
01:05:22,454 --> 01:05:25,225
war around Europe, and then they play

1935
01:05:24,273 --> 01:05:27,072
the cool guy, and so on. I don't play

1936
01:05:26,118 --> 01:05:29,774
games, I'm just having fun. I have

1937
01:05:28,826 --> 01:05:31,874
self-deprecation, but on the other hand

1938
01:05:30,874 --> 01:05:33,659
, I don't have a rehearsed speech.

1939
01:05:33,999 --> 01:05:36,718
Afterwards, I try to adapt not the

1940
01:05:35,768 --> 01:05:38,639
substance of my speech, but sometimes

1941
01:05:37,690 --> 01:05:40,359
the form depending on the people.

1942
01:05:39,980 --> 01:05:43,206
That's normal. But you won't catch me

1943
01:05:42,266 --> 01:05:45,494
saying the opposite from one place to

1944
01:05:44,555 --> 01:05:47,360
another. There you go. I...

1945
01:05:46,460 --> 01:05:49,326
» But will you remain the mayor of Cannes

1946
01:05:48,326 --> 01:05:49,374
?

1947
01:05:48,474 --> 01:05:50,451
» If I am President of the Republic?

1948
01:05:49,551 --> 01:05:51,755
» Yes. No, if you are not President of

1949
01:05:50,783 --> 01:05:52,147
the Republic,

1950
01:05:51,279 --> 01:05:53,653
» Well, I...the capital will be in Cannes

1951
01:05:52,688 --> 01:05:54,710
because I want to live by the

1952
01:05:53,745 --> 01:05:56,832
Mediterranean. There you go. But I

1953
01:05:55,870 --> 01:05:58,023
think many French people would

1954
01:05:57,062 --> 01:05:59,484
appreciate the fact that there's some

1955
01:05:58,484 --> 01:05:59,600
...

1956
01:05:58,839 --> 01:06:00,870
» I wouldn't be doing the people of

1957
01:05:59,902 --> 01:06:01,840
Cannes a favor, unfortunately.

1958
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,760
» Yes, it wouldn't be, yes...

1959
01:06:03,279 --> 01:06:05,639
» Or no, it actually wouldn't be good.

1960
01:06:05,539 --> 01:06:07,743
» But no, I wanted to know if you are

1961
01:06:06,777 --> 01:06:08,879
going to run for the legislative

1962
01:06:07,913 --> 01:06:10,083
elections if the elected president

1963
01:06:09,117 --> 01:06:13,123
dissolves the National Assembly. Are

1964
01:06:12,184 --> 01:06:15,079
you, well, Nouvelle Énergie is

1965
01:06:14,140 --> 01:06:18,557
preparing legislative candidacies. We

1966
01:06:17,597 --> 01:06:20,132
will be very present in the legislative

1967
01:06:19,172 --> 01:06:21,510
elections, especially if I win the

1968
01:06:20,550 --> 01:06:23,006
presidential, we will need a majority

1969
01:06:22,046 --> 01:06:24,760
afterward. So we will prepare for all

1970
01:06:23,795 --> 01:06:28,681
of that. I, I have, I have, my mandate

1971
01:06:27,791 --> 01:06:30,207
is mayor. There you go.

1972
01:06:29,307 --> 01:06:31,065
» Mayor or president?

1973
01:06:30,165 --> 01:06:33,004
» Yes, because I, I want to be the boss.

1974
01:06:32,659 --> 01:06:35,633
» No, but you understand, it's, it's, uh,

1975
01:06:34,684 --> 01:06:37,659
again, I was told I shouldn't say that.

1976
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,118
But

1977
01:06:38,579 --> 01:06:40,987
» Because, because if you want, what,

1978
01:06:40,027 --> 01:06:42,597
what interests me in life is not having

1979
01:06:41,637 --> 01:06:44,127
a title; I've said it before, I'm not

1980
01:06:43,167 --> 01:06:45,737
looking for lines on a CV or retirement

1981
01:06:44,777 --> 01:06:48,457
points. I am lucky to be at a stage in

1982
01:06:47,513 --> 01:06:50,438
my life where I've done things and

1983
01:06:49,494 --> 01:06:52,702
things are going pretty well personally

1984
01:06:51,702 --> 01:06:54,701
. What interests me is really being

1985
01:06:53,756 --> 01:06:57,033
useful. It's creating a, creating a

1986
01:06:56,085 --> 01:06:58,892
team for France, just like I have a

1987
01:06:57,944 --> 01:07:00,800
municipal team. It's creating a

1988
01:06:59,848 --> 01:07:02,205
collective while assuming my

1989
01:07:01,254 --> 01:07:03,950
responsibility as a boss, because a

1990
01:07:02,999 --> 01:07:05,792
boss is someone who tries to...I have

1991
01:07:04,841 --> 01:07:07,731
always, in my life, learned this: I was

1992
01:07:06,780 --> 01:07:09,573
lucky to start from not much and meet

1993
01:07:08,622 --> 01:07:11,671
some great people. Who? I've had a lot

1994
01:07:10,711 --> 01:07:13,199
of luck. I had Jacques Pélissard, who

1995
01:07:12,236 --> 01:07:14,528
had some experience in politics and

1996
01:07:13,565 --> 01:07:15,782
trained me, who was a great legal

1997
01:07:14,819 --> 01:07:17,221
expert; I had Bernard Rocon, who was a

1998
01:07:16,258 --> 01:07:18,623
great boss and was mayor of Caen, and

1999
01:07:17,660 --> 01:07:20,920
so on. And there's one thing I've

2000
01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:22,822
learned all the time: first, you have

2001
01:07:21,872 --> 01:07:24,423
to work, uh, you shouldn't take

2002
01:07:23,473 --> 01:07:26,275
yourself too seriously while working

2003
01:07:25,325 --> 01:07:28,277
very seriously, and above all, you must

2004
01:07:27,327 --> 01:07:30,079
look for people more competent than

2005
01:07:29,129 --> 01:07:33,526
yourself. So I find them easily, which

2006
01:07:32,574 --> 01:07:35,381
says it's concerning for me, but I've

2007
01:07:34,430 --> 01:07:37,334
spent my life surrounding myself—when

2008
01:07:36,383 --> 01:07:39,189
I was an employee, I looked for work,

2009
01:07:38,238 --> 01:07:41,044
and then at some point, it shifted to

2010
01:07:40,093 --> 01:07:45,012
where I could choose. And, and when you

2011
01:07:44,012 --> 01:07:47,783
, when you trust someone, it pays off

2012
01:07:46,858 --> 01:07:50,779
much more to trust than to be paranoid.

2013
01:07:50,099 --> 01:07:52,657
You need a little paranoia because, as

2014
01:07:51,698 --> 01:07:54,093
Woody Allen said, it's not because

2015
01:07:53,134 --> 01:07:55,570
you're paranoid that you don't have

2016
01:07:54,611 --> 01:07:59,522
enemies. That makes me laugh a lot. But

2017
01:07:58,590 --> 01:08:02,240
so, you see, being a parliamentarian is

2018
01:08:01,308 --> 01:08:05,560
magnificent, right? Making the law, and

2019
01:08:04,615 --> 01:08:07,946
so on, it can be very interesting. But,

2020
01:08:07,001 --> 01:08:10,149
but really, in my life, what interested

2021
01:08:09,204 --> 01:08:12,061
me was being a minister. Being a

2022
01:08:11,123 --> 01:08:14,052
minister can be very rewarding,

2023
01:08:13,114 --> 01:08:16,354
provided you admire the person above

2024
01:08:15,417 --> 01:08:16,666
you.

2025
01:08:15,766 --> 01:08:18,081
» Provided you have a ministry where you

2026
01:08:17,116 --> 01:08:19,086
can actually make decisions.

2027
01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:21,685
» If it’s just about having a flashing

2028
01:08:20,725 --> 01:08:23,131
police escort, a clerk serving you,

2029
01:08:22,171 --> 01:08:24,698
doing PR stunts, and commenting on the

2030
01:08:23,738 --> 01:08:26,225
news, the weather, and such—because

2031
01:08:25,265 --> 01:08:27,832
that’s what ministers are 9 times out

2032
01:08:26,872 --> 01:08:29,439
of 10 today—it doesn’t interest me.

2033
01:08:29,159 --> 01:08:31,079
It doesn’t interest me.

2034
01:08:30,559 --> 01:08:32,835
» Yes, it interests me—well, especially

2035
01:08:31,868 --> 01:08:34,014
since the dissolution, it doesn’t

2036
01:08:33,047 --> 01:08:34,440
interest me.

2037
01:08:33,980 --> 01:08:36,754
» So, in my view, there are individual

2038
01:08:35,803 --> 01:08:38,676
factors, you know; we make sacrifices,

2039
01:08:37,725 --> 01:08:40,204
but there are still individual

2040
01:08:39,253 --> 01:08:42,851
principles of personal fulfillment. If

2041
01:08:41,898 --> 01:08:44,618
you could implement just one measure,

2042
01:08:43,664 --> 01:08:46,477
perhaps as president, or potentially as

2043
01:08:45,524 --> 01:08:50,075
a minister, or I don’t know. Perhaps

2044
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,794
you will carry this voice through the

2045
01:08:50,839 --> 01:08:53,513
New Energy deputies; if there is just

2046
01:08:52,558 --> 01:08:55,186
one measure, you look toward 2100 or

2047
01:08:54,231 --> 01:08:56,905
2150, perhaps the very distant future

2048
01:08:55,950 --> 01:08:58,714
of France, and say, "That is my legacy.

2049
01:08:57,714 --> 01:09:01,630
" What would it be? What I would like

2050
01:09:00,670 --> 01:09:03,094
people to remember about my work is

2051
01:09:02,134 --> 01:09:04,639
that France became a more prosperous,

2052
01:09:03,679 --> 01:09:07,032
freer, and more just country. It’s

2053
01:09:06,076 --> 01:09:08,819
about justice. The rest is just a sum

2054
01:09:07,866 --> 01:09:10,710
of measures. So, when—if I am elected

2055
01:09:09,748 --> 01:09:12,092
President of the Republic, because "

2056
01:09:11,092 --> 01:09:13,474
when I am president" sounds a bit too

2057
01:09:12,511 --> 01:09:14,557
presidential, there—I will

2058
01:09:13,594 --> 01:09:15,826
immediately appoint a Chief Human

2059
01:09:14,864 --> 01:09:17,446
Resources Officer for the State. Right

2060
01:09:16,491 --> 01:09:19,109
away; there is no State HR director,

2061
01:09:18,154 --> 01:09:20,920
there is no career management. It's not

2062
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,179
true. People tell you there are huge HR

2063
01:09:22,237 --> 01:09:25,371
costs at the State level. But it might

2064
01:09:24,412 --> 01:09:26,849
seem silly, yet that is how we will

2065
01:09:25,890 --> 01:09:28,125
turn the country around. Uh,

2066
01:09:27,174 --> 01:09:29,517
immediately I will launch a

2067
01:09:28,567 --> 01:09:31,408
construction plan for prison cells or

2068
01:09:30,457 --> 01:09:33,348
agreements with neighboring countries.

2069
01:09:32,448 --> 01:09:34,345
Uh, anyway, we are coming back to what

2070
01:09:33,369 --> 01:09:35,315
I was saying earlier. Immediately, I

2071
01:09:34,340 --> 01:09:36,216
will liberate the school system and

2072
01:09:35,241 --> 01:09:37,117
reinstate a common core curriculum.

2073
01:09:36,217 --> 01:09:38,966
There. Immediately, I will reintroduce

2074
01:09:38,005 --> 01:09:40,382
and include philosophy from primary

2075
01:09:39,421 --> 01:09:41,837
school, because in the 21st century,

2076
01:09:40,877 --> 01:09:43,371
with robots, we will need to learn how

2077
01:09:42,411 --> 01:09:44,829
to decode the world. We will need to

2078
01:09:43,865 --> 01:09:46,248
learn critical thinking more than ever.

2079
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:47,906
Immediately, I will create this

2080
01:09:46,947 --> 01:09:49,500
mandatory differential of at least €

2081
01:09:48,541 --> 01:09:51,299
500 between salaries. There you go, you

2082
01:09:50,337 --> 01:09:52,768
know, sometimes it’s not a bad thing

2083
01:09:51,806 --> 01:09:54,012
if people don’t remember much,

2084
01:09:53,049 --> 01:09:55,406
because in fact, for a president, it

2085
01:09:54,444 --> 01:09:56,875
means things weren’t going so badly,

2086
01:09:55,913 --> 01:09:57,780
if you see what I mean.

2087
01:09:57,821 --> 01:10:00,617
» Thank you very much. We still have the

2088
01:09:59,664 --> 01:10:02,240
envelope that's been here from the

2089
01:10:01,286 --> 01:10:04,088
beginning. Would you agree to open it?

2090
01:10:03,188 --> 01:10:05,796
» But I find there's a paradox; it says "

2091
01:10:04,796 --> 01:10:07,404
confidential," so if I open it, because

2092
01:10:06,445 --> 01:10:09,012
there are still people watching us who

2093
01:10:08,054 --> 01:10:10,621
have seen "confidential" until now, so

2094
01:10:09,621 --> 01:10:10,745
...

2095
01:10:09,845 --> 01:10:12,006
» But from the end, it's no longer

2096
01:10:11,042 --> 01:10:13,437
confidential. If you want to open it,

2097
01:10:12,473 --> 01:10:14,797
you can open it; if you don't want to

2098
01:10:13,833 --> 01:10:15,191
open it...

2099
01:10:14,291 --> 01:10:17,222
» My great temptation is to tell you no,

2100
01:10:16,272 --> 01:10:19,153
out of a spirit of provocation, but I

2101
01:10:18,203 --> 01:10:21,185
think if you put it there, it's because

2102
01:10:20,236 --> 01:10:22,733
you have curiosity. Exactly.

2103
01:10:21,833 --> 01:10:24,825
» We all have the curiosity to know. But

2104
01:10:23,925 --> 01:10:29,395
» Well, you know, come on. Name a living

2105
01:10:28,455 --> 01:10:31,667
person whom you sincerely think would

2106
01:10:30,726 --> 01:10:36,394
make a better president than you. I

2107
01:10:35,429 --> 01:10:37,599
shouldn't have seen the envelope.

2108
01:10:38,539 --> 01:10:40,779
» There, you have to answer now.

2109
01:10:39,899 --> 01:10:43,423
» But no, it's because let's imagine one

2110
01:10:42,489 --> 01:10:44,619
comes to my mind.

2111
01:10:43,739 --> 01:10:45,913
» But it could be someone who isn't a

2112
01:10:44,947 --> 01:10:47,256
candidate for this, but I don't want to

2113
01:10:46,289 --> 01:10:48,695
give ideas. Some already think we

2114
01:10:47,737 --> 01:10:51,734
aren't numerous enough. Frankly, there

2115
01:10:50,799 --> 01:10:53,838
are tons of us. Well, but the problem

2116
01:10:52,872 --> 01:10:55,187
is that I have plenty who come to mind,

2117
01:10:54,221 --> 01:10:56,926
but I won't tell you. There, that will

2118
01:10:55,982 --> 01:11:02,212
be my ultimate freedom. Very well. Yeah

2119
01:11:01,212 --> 01:11:03,818
, I thought you were going to tell me

2120
01:11:02,861 --> 01:11:05,554
you'd say Francis Lalanne, but no, he's

2121
01:11:04,598 --> 01:11:06,119
a candidate.

2122
01:11:05,243 --> 01:11:08,016
» Yes, yes, that's true. But maybe

2123
01:11:07,339 --> 01:11:09,952
» No, but I'm sure there are...so, I

2124
01:11:08,999 --> 01:11:11,849
don't know if they would be better than

2125
01:11:10,897 --> 01:11:13,652
me, because you have to be a bit sure

2126
01:11:12,700 --> 01:11:15,455
of yourself, but people who, you see,

2127
01:11:14,503 --> 01:11:17,306
people who manage to do simple things,

2128
01:11:16,353 --> 01:11:18,729
to get results while managing

2129
01:11:17,777 --> 01:11:20,894
complexity. I don't know, it hasn't

2130
01:11:19,948 --> 01:11:23,041
always worked, but I'll take an example

2131
01:11:22,094 --> 01:11:24,919
to surprise you, but I don't know,

2132
01:11:23,973 --> 01:11:26,100
maybe Arsène Wenger.

2133
01:11:25,659 --> 01:11:26,859
» Or

2134
01:11:26,339 --> 01:11:28,871
» Okay, I would like to have people like

2135
01:11:27,912 --> 01:11:30,324
that in my French team too, well, I

2136
01:11:29,364 --> 01:11:31,776
have some who are joining me, great

2137
01:11:30,816 --> 01:11:32,099
people.

2138
01:11:31,700 --> 01:11:33,940
» People who come from sports.

2139
01:11:33,100 --> 01:11:35,480
» From sports, yes, from sports, I have a

2140
01:11:34,515 --> 01:11:38,262
lot of them. But people who, in

2141
01:11:37,316 --> 01:11:40,447
addition, in sports, or in the arts, or

2142
01:11:39,501 --> 01:11:42,304
in business, or in the non-profit

2143
01:11:41,358 --> 01:11:44,106
sector, uh, in charity, uh, have

2144
01:11:43,161 --> 01:11:47,334
managed complexity. You know, when,

2145
01:11:46,393 --> 01:11:49,494
when, and here too, it's, when, it's

2146
01:11:48,553 --> 01:11:51,537
complex, but Edgar Morin, the late

2147
01:11:50,596 --> 01:11:55,437
Edgar Morin, said: "The round ball is a

2148
01:11:54,491 --> 01:11:57,565
means of universal communication," but

2149
01:11:56,619 --> 01:11:59,747
football too, football can be the worst

2150
01:11:58,747 --> 01:12:01,821
, the money side, stuff, the violence,

2151
01:12:00,875 --> 01:12:02,967
and can be the best.

2152
01:12:02,067 --> 01:12:04,082
» In any case, there's nothing more

2153
01:12:03,113 --> 01:12:05,641
selective. Everyone plays football, the

2154
01:12:04,681 --> 01:12:07,041
whole planet; it's the most global

2155
01:12:06,081 --> 01:12:09,508
phenomenon. And when you look at how

2156
01:12:08,564 --> 01:12:11,419
football clubs are organized, the

2157
01:12:10,475 --> 01:12:13,610
selection of talent, high-level sports

2158
01:12:12,666 --> 01:12:15,858
don't lie; if you're not good, it shows

2159
01:12:14,914 --> 01:12:19,259
immediately on the field. There are

2160
01:12:18,308 --> 01:12:20,825
worlds where people cheat. In

2161
01:12:19,859 --> 01:12:22,159
high-level sports, that doesn't happen.

2162
01:12:21,399 --> 01:12:24,217
But high-level sport needs a popular

2163
01:12:23,267 --> 01:12:26,085
base. So it's exactly the metaphor we

2164
01:12:25,129 --> 01:12:28,175
need to launch the country. So we must

2165
01:12:27,219 --> 01:12:29,920
ensure that everyone can have access to

2166
01:12:28,964 --> 01:12:31,713
playing sports. But we must also ensure

2167
01:12:30,752 --> 01:12:33,229
that the processes for creating elites

2168
01:12:32,268 --> 01:12:34,628
aren't reserved for the same social

2169
01:12:33,666 --> 01:12:37,510
class. In football, you can play, even

2170
01:12:36,559 --> 01:12:40,071
your build can change and so on. And

2171
01:12:39,135 --> 01:12:42,430
you see the complexity of creating a

2172
01:12:41,494 --> 01:12:44,790
sports club, managing to get results

2173
01:12:43,854 --> 01:12:47,277
even if you have much larger financial

2174
01:12:46,341 --> 01:12:49,700
resources than others, and even then,

2175
01:12:48,764 --> 01:12:52,455
it gets complicated. So yes, I mention

2176
01:12:51,506 --> 01:12:54,513
Arsène Wenger because he also has ties

2177
01:12:53,565 --> 01:12:56,521
to Cannes, though he's Alsatian, but I

2178
01:12:55,572 --> 01:12:58,764
find people like that fantastic. It’s

2179
01:12:57,808 --> 01:13:00,090
what, well, what Yanick Borot

2180
01:12:59,135 --> 01:13:01,771
understands very well, what Alexandre

2181
01:13:00,815 --> 01:13:03,363
Jardin understands; it's this whole

2182
01:13:02,407 --> 01:13:04,778
country, this abundance that is

2183
01:13:03,822 --> 01:13:06,414
actually very effective, integrating

2184
01:13:05,458 --> 01:13:08,139
hundreds of thousands of young people.

2185
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:08,759
» Hm.

2186
01:13:08,140 --> 01:13:10,857
» Today, we fail more than a million

2187
01:13:09,907 --> 01:13:12,877
young people in the French system every

2188
01:13:11,927 --> 01:13:15,235
year. So we will have to use all the

2189
01:13:14,294 --> 01:13:17,603
levers, companies; a company's capacity

2190
01:13:16,662 --> 01:13:20,454
for integration is fantastic. It is

2191
01:13:19,497 --> 01:13:21,744
perhaps the primary source of

2192
01:13:20,787 --> 01:13:23,463
integration along with sports clubs and

2193
01:13:22,506 --> 01:13:25,446
artistic practice. When I developed

2194
01:13:24,504 --> 01:13:27,755
arts and cultural education, I believed

2195
01:13:26,812 --> 01:13:29,516
in it deeply. When you go to all,

2196
01:13:28,561 --> 01:13:31,268
especially to difficult neighborhoods,

2197
01:13:30,313 --> 01:13:32,930
but in all neighborhoods, you have a

2198
01:13:31,975 --> 01:13:34,368
kid learn a musical instrument,

2199
01:13:34,980 --> 01:13:38,279
» It's a wonderful discipline of effort,

2200
01:13:37,339 --> 01:13:40,033
self-control, sacrifice, and

2201
01:13:39,094 --> 01:13:44,444
fulfillment. It’s all there. So yes,

2202
01:13:43,488 --> 01:13:45,925
people like that, they would make

2203
01:13:44,968 --> 01:13:47,580
excellent Presidents of the Republic,

2204
01:13:46,623 --> 01:13:49,518
of course. Very good examples. Thank

2205
01:13:48,573 --> 01:13:49,797
you.

2206
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,693
» Thank you for staying until the end. If

2207
01:13:50,730 --> 01:13:53,103
you're too impatient, you can already

2208
01:13:52,140 --> 01:13:54,438
watch our other episodes that we've

2209
01:13:53,475 --> 01:13:56,232
already published on the channel. We

2210
01:13:55,268 --> 01:13:57,611
are putting suggestions on the screen

2211
01:13:56,647 --> 01:13:59,172
that might interest you. Remember to

2212
01:13:58,217 --> 01:14:01,279
like the video before you go. Bye!