All right. Good afternoon. I will call
to order uh the village board meeting of
August 10th.
Let's see. We got Anna and Ter. Okay.
Yeah, we're good to go. Uh Erin, can you
please call the role, please?
» Yes. Trusty Saunders
» Here.
» Trusty Saraban
» Here.
» Trustee Casper here. Trusty Venevon
Hoben Deman and um Hower will be absent
tonight and then tr uh President Buckley
» Here. Thank you.
» All right. Uh first order of business is
the consent agenda. We've got three
items on the agenda. The minutes of the
regular meeting on July 20th, the check
register from July of 2026, and the
strategic plan quarterly report.
Any questions or concerns?
And hearing none, I'd entertain a
motion. Jen will be looking at you a lot
today.
» Yeah, I I kind of had
» I'm seconding because why not?
» Well, I mean they I guess you can if you
can chime in.
» Um
real quick uh thank you to uh Anna for
the uh quarterly report. And with that
said, I move the village board approve
the consent agenda as presented.
» Thank you. Do I hear a second from
» Second?
» Thank you, Anna. Excellent. Uh any
further discussion? Hearing none, all
those in favor say I. I
» I
» Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
» Next under the report of the village M
officers, Mr. Village attorney.
» Nothing to report today, Mr. President.
» Yes, village manager.
» Sure. Um Lake Drive will be one way
northbound only. So no southbound
traffic um starting in a few days on
Wednesday, August 12th for two weeks. Uh
so we ask the public to utilize detours
and allow for additional commuting time
and appreciate everyone's patience. I
have notified both the side and Fox
Point who will also be sending out that
information to their residents as well.
» All right. Thank you. Um
it should be noted that SEX is now has a
a placard in their front door that says
that they are closing on August 23rd and
reopening hopefully September 23rd. Um,
next I just have to call out the fact
that tomorrow is a election primary and
I hope that everybody in White Fishbay
votes and good luck to our staff who are
going to be here for the entire day and
then some. And and finally, Sounds of
Summer is on this Saturday and I hope to
see everybody there. Uh thanks in
advance to the Wishb Civic Foundation
and um village resident Steve Begoon for
playing on our stage next Saturday from
5 to 10. I think that's the answer.
Any miscellaneous trustee reports? Uh
one question. Uh,
I know that it's a uh private business,
but are we going to put the Sendex
closing date on the weekly rec the
weekly construction update?
» So far, we haven't been communicating
anything. Um, I'm not sure I'm opposed,
but I can ask them. I know that they've
been directly communicating with
customers as well.
» I understand. It's just if I
I I wouldn't say yes for you know just
any business in in the district but
since this is uh something that we are
sending weekly updates on I don't I I
think it would be it wouldn't hurt us
especially since traffic is going to
already be a mess in that area during
the closing um or doing especially the
beginning of the closing. Um, I think it
it if if people see that and maybe don't
go that way on on purpose, that might be
helpful.
» Agreed.
» Any other
» Yep. Go ahead.
» I was just going to say I was thinking
the same thing. Agreed.
» Well, then I just know.
» All right. Any other trustee reports?
Then hearing none, I will move on to
petitions and communications. This is an
opportunity for anyone in the audience
to address the village board on any
issue that is not on the current agenda.
Is there anyone here for an item not on
the current agenda?
Once, twice. Okay, we'll close
petitions, communications, and move on
to general business. We've got sixish
items on the agenda. The first is a
discussion on the 2027 village budget
projects, priorities, and visioning.
Jamie, come on down.
» All right. So, [clears throat] this is
something that we added a couple years
ago kind of just to get feedback from
the board on any other items they might
want us to research for the budget. uh
we have done a lot of work in the last
couple of years to kind of help give us
guidelines or planning documents for
what we want in the budget. So we've
obviously adopted our strategic plan. We
did our capital improvement plan last
year and then also a finan financial
management plan with Ellers which I
think does guide a lot of this. So this
is kind of looking for anything outside
of that. Um I did add some other
information this year kind of on the
levy limit increases and the net new
construction. Um we are anticipating
that our 2027
budget will have an allowable increase
about the same as the 2026 budget which
was about 60,000. So then that does get
us into using the abated debt to pay for
more kind of capital items. So that's
all explained here. Um so kind of
getting at just if there's any other
priorities you want us to research. And
then the other thing that we were
looking for feedback on that did not
make it into the memo unfortunately was
on um last year the health department we
kind of gave more money to above what
their request was and if there's a
desire to do that again um if that's
something we should kind of be building
into the budget or if we want to see how
it shakes out or that. So that is what I
have for you guys and obviously any
questions on the memo I'm going to
answer. Any trustee questions? Comments?
» I I have a few I have a few things to
mention. Um first of all, uh thank you
uh for all of this and then all of
what's to come. Uh secondly, my opinion
would be we should wait till things
shake out with the health department. Um
I,
you know, let's hope that they're not in
the same situation they were uh a year
ago, but um you know, I think that um
either a you know, we should either we
should wait and or um allow someone else
in the Northshore to uh um to take a
cake at the can. Uh I don't know if
anyone else did uh last year, but um
maybe this can be a a jumping off point
for other people to try to budget a
little extra money for the health
department as we did last year. Um there
are a couple of there are a couple of
smaller things that I have interest in
the uh uh interest in staff's uh
research regarding the budget. They're
small because Jamie, as you mentioned,
um the roadmap that the board and the
staff have laid out over the past few
years uh has made this part of the
budget process um
uh
almost a moot point, which is fantastic.
Um that said, a couple things that I've
thought about. Uh I'm interested in
possible increase in training and travel
and training um mostly for staff but
also potentially for um village board
members. And that doesn't necessarily
have to mean travel. I mean there is a
glut of uh
thanks to in part to the the the
pandemic now there is a glut of
organizations that do online only
training uh whether it's live or uh
recorded and it's things that don't you
know cost a lot you know depending on
what the uh depending on what the
subject matter is I think it there's
probably there are probably things out
there that would help um that that would
help us that would help us all um just
be you know learn more about our our
jobs and get it from uh from experts
outside of uh outside of the area. Uh
you know I think that would start with
obviously it would start with department
heads uh you know to to see if they have
any particular needs. But I know Nyama
has done that uh off and on through the
years with not only herself but sending
uh sending her staff members to to
training opportunities. Uh so I think
that that is something that that we
should be looking into. Um,
I'm also interested with
the the opening of
the opening of Sendex
uh next year. I'm very interested in
looking into the potential for
an a vast increase in or the development
of a part-time marketing and
communications person.
I think that this while Sendex it while
it's is just the one business that is
opening on Silver Spring Drive, you
know, in that we know of in 2027,
it is
going to be a huge deal in the
Northshore and really at the east side
in general. I think people are going to
um I think people are going to flock to
the store and I think we should work
with bid. I think we should work with uh
with the um
uh who am I missing? Uh Civic
Foundation. Uh because we're going to
have an opportunity in 2027 to market
and promote the crap out of White Fish
Bay.
» Um
because and I think this could the
opening of Synindex could kickstart
other businesses to give a serious look
into our village.
And I think we should not be we should
be very proactive
with this and not just rest on our
laurels and say, "Oh, well, Cynics
opening will take care of itself." We
have an opportunity um and I think an
obligation
to not just let the bid do it, to not
just let this I think we should be
we should be driving that that train. Uh
and I think that
I I would like to know
some different options and I can
certainly talk to you guys later about,
you know, the things I have in mind, but
the different options that might that
that might entail and what the cost
might be. I think that would uh I think
2027 is is an opportunity for us to
really trumpet our village for a in a
lot of different ways. Um and at
uh one more thing I really this year I
know we always hear from uh I know we
always hear and you guys talk to um
department heads but I'd be really
interested this year in knowing if
there's anything
in particular that
not a big ticket item but
something that might be considered a
smaller ticket item that they haven't
really thought about asking for because
they weren't sure if there's money or um
you know I I'd be interested in almost a
Barbie dreamhouse from a report from all
the department heads uh just to just to
know you know what they're thinking
about as as they move their departments
forward. So with that I will
see you in my time.
» Thank you. Uh Jay, just quick question
about your marketing um person position
type thing.
Are I I think you're talking about the
business district, but are you talking
about other things of Bay or what?
What's your thoughts? Okay. Yeah, I mean
I
the
the b the the district is the jumping
off point,
but
you know this I think there are a lot of
things that people don't know about
White Fish Bay that they could know or
should know or you know are
you know that we're not I mean I don't
want us to be viewed as some sleepy
little village because we're not. There
are a lot of great things happening here
and I think that uh we have an
opportunity
with some of the with not only what's
happening on Silver Spring, but in other
parts of our village, what we've already
done at the parks, what we're continuing
to do with the parks. Um the
um
uh I'm sorry I'm blanking on uh but I
just I just think that there is an
opportunity there for us to just just
go.
» Yeah. I I I guess I wanted to ask the
question cuz um the the village um funds
the bid to the tune of 60,000 a year if
I think that's right. And so an a lion
share of that fund goes to, you know,
the the mailers they put out, the social
media stuff they do. Um, and and so it's
a conversation to say like, well, let's
increase the bid funding, which by the
way comes through the CDA and comes
through the TIFF funds and whatnot. And
that so that's an interesting
conversation to have. That's why I
asked, were you talking about other
things?
» Yes, I outside of business. I
» I do think there are other things like I
I can remember
I don't remember how many years ago now.
Um, we had a part-time communications
position. There's a young lady, Jenny
Hayden, um, that that did uh that did it
was pretty it was pretty basic, but
and and maybe that's the, you know,
maybe that's the the gradea wagoo beef
version of what I'm talking about. Um,
but I like I said, I think there is I
think this is an opportunity for us as a
village in general to um attract people
and there are going to there's going to
be in uh there's going to be an increase
of traffic on Silver Spring because of
that. There are going to be changes that
are going to be made up and down Port
Washington uh and Glendale that you know
are a quick jaunt up to Silver Spring
and over is you know Whitefish Bay. And
so I I think that this is an opportunity
that we should grab.
» Fair enough. Okay. Uh Anna or Tara, do
you have anything to comment on about
this
budget visioning? Let's see. Let's go
with You're both unmuted, so let's go
with Anna first.
[clears throat]
» Are you asking about what Jay just said
or
» Anything you'd like to comment on? Um,
you know, I think the CIP has a lot to
it. So, I mean, it's all good stuff that
needs work. Um, I always think
pedestrian safety, something that's not
on that list, I think, would be adding
improvements down Hampton, more
improvements down Hampton, not just
where Santa Monica is. Um,
yeah, and like I said, the CIP has a ton
of things that
make sense.
» Just if I could build on on that on
Hampton, but also particularly Santa
Monica, one of the things that we will
have in the next 12-ish months would be
two new monument signs on Silver Spring.
» Perhaps we could build funding into the
budget for monument signs replacing the
ones on Hampton and Santa Monica. that
just popped into my head. Not to mention
the signage that we have on Lake uh
Henry Clay and anywhere else. It's
probably it lake north and south. Um
that being said, we have grant funding
on the on the line for uh projects on
lake that included monument sign. So
perhaps that doesn't need to be in any
budget line item and maybe we'll look
out and get rap. And I do hear from
residents that um the sidewalks when you
enter into the road, it feels like
you're walking farther into the road
onto Hampton and then coming back onto
the sidewalk. And I know people would
love to have those uh refigured,
» Right?
» Or reconfigured, I mean.
» All right,
Tara, do you have anything to add?
» Um a question for Jay. Jay, when you're
talking about this new position, are you
considering this to be an ongoing or a
temporary, you know, for 2027 kind of
position? What What is your thinking
there? Is this going to be an ongoing
expense?
» My my thinking is it can be whatever it
ends up being. Um my initial thought is
uh yes, 2027 is going to be um you know,
a a big year. So, you know, if we if we
want to try to find, you know, someone
to uh, you know, to help us in a in a in
a part-time, you know, one-year only
capacity, that's fine. Um, if we find
out that it's something fantastic and
we're going to continue to have growth
in the district and in the village,
then, you know, maybe it's something we,
you know, look at again, uh, you know,
this time next year. But initially my
thoughts are 2027.
» Okay. Okay. Um, and then I guess for me
kind of along the lines of what Anna was
saying potentially,
I know that we have very many
initiatives and I, you know, obviously
I'm always got a lens when it comes to
public works and what's all happening
within public works and our parks and
and so I'm a little hesitant to add
anything additional to the plate for
staff. I feel like our staff is pretty
stretched right now and especially as
we're going into, you know, really
kicking off the lead pipe stuff. I I I'm
just a little hesitant um to add
anything
real big. Um so my priority obviously
always is getting things done, public
works, making sure that we've got our
services where they need to be, you
know, for residents. That's always, you
know, number one for me. And then
obviously we've got so many things in
the CIP to continue to work on. So that
would be my my two cents about it.
» All right. Thank you. Um indeed, we
started to do these um pre-budget
visioning
comments about five, six years ago. Um
and and it was the that the moment that
trustees could um give some thought as
to new projects that we'd like to have
executed. Um I I think that that we have
really changed our way of planning in
that now we have a six-year CIP and
we've put hundreds and thousands of manh
hours into uh creating that and
approving it and looking at it and
analyzing it. And so these meetings um
where trustees, you know, share other
capital ideas um while we'll still
continue to do them, the the uh the CIP
is what really guides what we're doing
here and um it lessens the importance of
of this particular conversation. Uh
anyways, that being said, a couple quick
comments. I agree with Jay about the
Northshore Health Department. Um, and I
I guess I unfortunately would have to
wait until we hear hear what their
request is, unless they've already made
their request because
last year's budget conversation was they
had asked for a relatively sizable
percentage increase that other
municipalities were unable unwilling to
to do. And that's when Wayne Fishbay
kind of stepped up. So I I guess my
first comment is we we need to hear what
are their needs or what are their I
don't know wishes um before we can kind
of respond to anything like that. Um
next is can can we talk about your memo
just a little bit in terms of um the
beta debt calculations that you've come
up with? Has has that changed from the
AERS list that we've that we had? We had
a conversation maybe, you know, two,
three months ago about abated debt. And
where I'm going with this, you don't
really need to answer that question
other than to say part of that long-term
um financial management plan was the
concept that we were going to run out of
levy limits in 2028, I think, was the
number. Have Have we bumped that number
at all with any of this abated debt
conversation?
» That I don't have an answer on. I know
that the 2026 budget we used less abated
debt than Ellers was anticipating we
were going to use but no we don't have
like an updated I guess estimate
» But more is helpful right my h having
having more beta debt identified is a
helpful position to be in
» Yeah but so we have a lot of abated debt
but we need to be able to identify
things like in the general fund budget
that we could borrow for. And that's
where we can't make those match. Like
we've identified, you know, 600,000
of sources we could use. We have $3
million of debt, but we don't want to
use it if we couldn't borrow for it.
» Sure. Sure.
» Yeah. So
that I think this budget's going to tell
us a lot. Uh because when we went
through the budget last time around,
we realized somewhat late in the process
that we were right up against levy
limits. we were working on the financial
management plan. All the information was
coming at us really quickly. This budget
we're entering with that mindset. And so
where as we're doing our budget
departmental reviews, we're going to be
looking more for these opportunities,
doing more of a fine tooth, like really
looking and I I am very optimistic that
that number for our beta debt capacity
will get higher.
» Okay.
» Uh but I just I don't know what that
will end up being. uh and Ellers was
estimating, but they agree we need to
actually be able to point and have a
list of here's the things we could
borrow for in a pinch if we needed to in
the future. Um so all that to say is I
am very hopeful we'll have a much more
realistic picture at the conclusion of
this budget.
» Do we update AERS with that so that they
can create the next rendition of our
Yeah.
» Well, so they actually just emailed what
was the estimate to update it? $15,000,
» I believe, which we thought was high. We
were thinking every two to three years,
maybe,
» Right? I leave that up to you to figure
out when you're going to update. I mean,
and I I assume that some of the
spreadsheets are perhaps ours. No,
» Just the PDFs.
» Well, the PDFs anyways.
» Yeah,
» They don't they don't give you a work
product.
» Not in a form that is helpful in Excel
documents. But all that to say, I mean,
they're they're going to be part of the
conversation. They always answer the
phone when we call. They're always
willing to answer our questions and so
as we're working through this, we'll
make sure that they're on the same page
so that we're not surprised in three
years when we update that plan.
» Works for me. I think
I think that was it for me.
Um, net new construction continues to
disappoint and I I does does it
disappoint you in the number? It just
seems always so low. I guess I don't
know enough about how it's calculated,
but I think with being landlocked and
it's not rebuilt, it's literally just
new construction. Um, or is it
» Yeah, we tell you
» We continue to have this debate on
» New construction or remodeling, you
know, where you're
» Yes, it has to be it can't be a remodel
of your existing puncture. It has to be
an addition. Tear down, rebuild is
additional value. Um, so like the
Hampton's, Margarit, all those would be
like new value in this equation, but not
all of those would have been the full
year. Like Margaret, I think was just a
partial trying to remember in 2031 when
we closed one, there will be an influx
as well with all of that increased that
increment really. Come on. My
» My initial estimates weren't as much as
I was hoping, but that still is
promising
» As well. So that will happen. So that so
in 20 2031
our levy limit will will take a step up.
» Yep.
» Is you'll get to capture all that
increment.
» I Yeah. I I didn't I didn't know that.
» So we just need to manage four years
before we get to that that that 20 31
right from 2028 in theory.
» Yeah. But I don't think it'll solve all
of
» Well, it'll help. It will help.
» Yeah.
» Okay. Uh that's all I have. Any other
trustee comments?
Any members of the public wish to talk
about budget priorities? No. Okay. In
that case, I will move on to We don't
There we You didn't need any motion on
that. Nope. We'll move on to number two.
Uh discussion action on the village
board community event engagement program
policy.
Oh, Millia, you're still here.
[laughter]
» Two weeks.
» Two more weeks. Okay.
So this program is based off of one of
the outcomes from the strategic plan as
well as a continuation of the discussion
from the May 18th village board meeting.
Um so this is a community event
engagement program. So it's kind of
combining some of the events within the
village um with allowing village board
members to have informal discussions
with residents where residents can talk
about different things that they're
seeing within the village and their
concerns and just have more informal
conversations. Um staff will evaluate
which events can be a part of this
program through the special event
process. So as they're evaluating
applications, they can then say, is this
a good event to have village board
members at? Those events will then be um
a part of the weekly administrative
update. And if two or more village board
members um say that they can attend the
event, then staff will coordinate with
the event organizers
of how um village board members can be a
part of that.
And at a high level, if there's any
questions,
» Did did other communities have policies
like this?
» They based off um kind of the village of
Oregon, they have a really similar
program.
» Village of Oregon.
» I I have a question. I
I think this would be more for Kelsey.
There are a lot of events in the village
where
more than two village board members are
attending but aren't attending in a
social
» Yeah. but aren't attending in in a way
that this is um in a in a way that this
uh is intending. If there were two
village board members who were directly
involved in the event engagement, but we
know that there are going to be other
village board members attending the
event. Do you still need to notice it?
» So, our plan is to notice every event,
even if it's only two people. Okay.
That's just it's so easy to notice. It's
okay. I didn't know that.
» Yep. Yep. It's no problem. You don't
have to do an agenda. You just notice
it's a notice of possible quorum. Okay.
I didn't want to, you know, have to hand
over my social calendar for
» Any other trustee questions.
» I love this by the way.
» Yeah, it's a nice
hearing none. Enjoy your last two weeks
in Wishbang.
» Amelia has been wonderful.
» She's been wonderful.
» He helps everyone and has been amazing.
So, we're going to miss her, but I think
she'll be back maybe this winter and
we're crossing our fingers maybe next
summer. So,
» Wow. Okay.
» Yeah, she's been great. So, week and a
half left.
» Thanks work. Thank you, Amelia.
» All right, we will then move on to
number three. Discussion discussion on
abolishing the Wishers Bay Municipal
Court and joining the Northshore.
» There was no motion, right? There's no
motion.
» Oh, was there you want to adopt the
policy?
» Oh, I'm sorry.
» Well, then we'll stop and we'll go
right.
» Yes. I I'm sorry I missed I I I missed
uh number two. I move the village board
adopt the village board community event
engagement program as presented.
» Do I hear a second?
» Second.
» Thank you, Anna. Uh any further
discussion? Hearing none. All those in
favor say I.
» I.
» Any opposed? Motion carries. Okay. Now
we'll move on to discussion on
abolishing the Whitefish Bay Municipal
Court and joining the Northshore
Municipal Court.
» Sure. Um so the village of White Fishb
currently operates our own um municipal
court and we recently participated in a
shared services feasibility study which
was funded by an innovation g grant
through the state of Wisconsin. Um so
the state has been really trying to
encourage municipalities to explore
consolidation or shared services in an
effort to hopefully reduce costs. You
may remember that the village utilized
um that grant program to do both a study
and then we actually are receiving a
grant. This is the first year to
consolidate our IT services with
Bayside. Um so that's one example. Um
this feasibility study was done around
the same or started around the same time
but just was completed later. Uh so what
they were looking at is if the three
Northshore communities, River Hills, um
Shorewood and Whitefish Bay, who
currently don't participate in the
Northshore Municipal Court, um basically
if there were any benefits to those
three communities joining the others, um
as a a larger partnership. So the study
was attached in the packet. Um and I'm
just going to walk through a little bit
at a high level basically how it would
work. Um so basically the village could
potentially join Glendale. Um the court
operates out of Glendale and then Brown
Deere and Bayside are participants in
that program. Under a consolidated
model, all the tickets um would need to
be paid online, mailed or in person at
the Glendale City Hall. Uh so from a
public facing standpoint, that would
probably be the most noticeable impact.
Currently, you come can come into
Village Hall to pay that. you would need
to go to Glendale and then obviously the
court days would also be held in
Glendale. They would no longer be held
in this room um in the village. There
would be one judge that's elected to
serve all the municipalities
participating in the Northshore Court
and that judge would be elected by all
the communities. Um I mentioned that the
court be held in Glendale. We would have
the same night as one other community uh
which that community has not yet been
identified. the village would be
responsible for paying our share of the
total Northshore Court expenditures each
year. Um, and that would be based on a
percentage of the tickets written. So
that'd be approximately 16% if all three
of those communities joined or 23% if
only Whitefish Bay joins the existing
communities.
Each community would retain their own
court fees and ticket revenue. Uh
there's a chart at the on page two of
the memo that breaks out the village's
existing expenditures in comparison to
joining the estimates for joining the
Northshore Municipal Court. You can see
there's like an existing column for
costs and then if all join, it's
important to look at it separately
because obviously each community will be
making their own decision and those
decisions will be made at different
times. Um, so if all those communities
join, you can see the cost and what that
delta is or if only White Fish Bay joins
and what that delta is. Um, but likely
the savings on an annual basis would
range from like 36,000 to 42,000.
Um, let's see. In terms of um process
changes for our staff, currently um we
have a court clerk who prepares the
records for court. uh this function
would need to be transi trans
transitioned to our police department
staff uh which our our police chief has
already kind of reviewed that and feels
comfortable with that change.
Additionally, there's parking citations
which are currently processed by the
municipal court clerk and this function
would have to transition to our police
department administrative administrative
assistant. uh that training has actually
already started and so um we're feeling
pretty comfortable about the ability for
that to be able to happen.
Uh one operational benefit that was
noted in the study that I just wanted to
mention um is that currently we have one
court clerk. The functions of a court
clerk is very technical. You have to
make sure things are done a very
specific way. You have to have access to
certain programs. Um so we do not have a
backup for that position. So sick leave,
vacation, um you know, an employee
resigns, uh we would be relying on other
communities and trying to navigate
through those situations because we do
not have internal redundancy
» Today.
» Today? Yep. But with the Northshore
model, they do have um I believe it's
two or three court clerks. I can't
remember the number, but they have that
redundancy. And so if there are vacation
or unexpected leaves, then they're able
to account for that. And then the last
thing I didn't mention um but wanted to
just say in the presentation is that the
innovation grant was used to fund the
study. Uh but also there it's very
likely that a new grant cycle will be
repeat will be released in the fall
again. Uh and so that is roughly $44,000
annually for four for five years which
is like $224,000
that the village would be eligible to
apply for. Um
» That's shared or just for the village.
So that would be determined by the
contract. Um so in the case of it, I was
able to make the case that we were
spending more for the services and so
all that money needed to be retained by
the village.
» In this case, um you know, there might
be transitional costs and such that
would have to be negotiated out and how
that money would be split. Uh but
regardless that would be money available
to the communities uh if it was awarded
um to be able to use for whatever
purpose makes sense
» For potentially 5 years
» For potentially five years.
» So this is this is on top of the 31 to
40 whatever that number is.
» So the way the grant works is it's 25%
of the cost of service in the year prior
to the transition of service.
» And so that was that's roughly $44,000.
So for five years is 224,000.
» Correct.
» Uh so staff this evening is really just
looking for direction. We wanted to you
know have the initial conversation um
include the included in the packet is
the existing contract. I wouldn't expect
significant changes from that. It was
actually already written in a way that
has a process for other communities to
be able to join the Northshore Court. So
I would anticipate it'd be relatively
similar. um and then also include the
study to have an initial discussion and
then if the village board was interested
then at a future meeting um likely
August 31st there'd be a discussion um
in potentially action around an
ordinance to abolish the court, an
ordinance to create the Northshore Court
and then the contract to join.
» Sure.
happy to answer any questions or
» Um well Jane go ahead there are three
people I would like to hear from on this
um all three of them are in this room
oddly enough uh I want to get I I would
like to get opinions from attorney
Jacobs from Chief Whitaker and I noticed
that our esteemed municipal court judge
uh is here with us this evening. Um
uh so
those those are the three because I and
I and I say that because
[clears throat]
from attorney Jakeel's side, you know
what I just want to know what the
changes would mean for each of these
three individuals in in the case of
Chief Whitaker his department because
Kelsey as you mentioned there would be
no more
coming to pay you know tickets which I
believe is done at the police department
window. I'm just double checking. Thank
you. Um not that I've ever gotten a
ticket. Uh
and I I just kind of want to know what
changes it would mean for you
individually in your departments and if
that's a good change, a bad change. Um
just kind of want to get your opinions
because you would be the folks most
impacted by this.
» Yeah. Would you mind? Um you're probably
first in the batting order. uh the chief
in that a member of staff who can you
know give us their I concept of whether
this is a a good path or not.
» Yeah. Um so we would be our
administrative staff would be taking on
a few other things that they don't
normally do right now. Uh like Kel
Kelsey said, we've already started um
processing um unpaid citations that that
go to suspension. um on the uh the
registration of the vehicle. Um we would
be uh right now Susan the court clerk uh
handles the paperwork preparing for
court and and you know gathering the
reports, the citations and everything,
the video that's needed. Um we've talked
to Glendale um about that process in
Bayside and um they're um right now
looking at making it smoother. um and u
paperless like we have now. Um
so that would be an extra thing that our
staff needs to do. But as you said with
people not showing up to pay citations,
they would have to go to Glendo. That
frees up some time um for our our clerk
right now. Uh we also have community
service officers that that can help out
with that.
I you know
in in the end I don't have any concerns
that we won't be able to handle the the
additional workload.
» Okay. What would it mean for
your officers? Um,
because I I don't assume this, but I I
would imagine that in a lot of
situations,
your officers are attending
court hearings
if it rises to a certain level.
» Yeah. Um, so if there are they're needed
to to um testify in court, rather than
walking upstairs, they would drive to
Glendale.
» How often does that?
» We have trials once a month. Not every
trial night goes, so it sporadic. Would
it
would you have any concerns about
response time or any
public safety concerns by having
officers go to Glendale for court?
» No. Um, you know, if they're here on
overtime, that's an extra 10 minutes of
travel time at the most. Um, and you
know, we would make sure we have we make
sure we have coverage already if they
have to be
» Testifying.
» Things I think of.
» Any other questions for the chief from
trustee Casper or Surin?
Okay.
Thank you. Um,
uh, Mr. Jacobs, what do you think of
this, uh, consolidation?
Well, we've had Yeah, we've had some
we've had some discussions of that. It
it um
it's
very much a fat comple
it's uh you know because
uh Bayside for example doesn't have a
judge anymore. They they you know become
part of the the Northshore court. Um
where it's going to change is
uh that uh the people we have doing the
prosecution now
um may or may not be doing that
prosecution in the future because
there's discussion about going out for
requests for proposals to hire basically
hire all new uh all new prosecutorial
teams
um and share those among communities.
» And is that a good thing? I mean, well,
you're very different. I'll say your
firm, I think, is what you're saying.
» Yeah, it's it's very different, I'll
say.
» Um,
the right now it's it's your various law
firms doing, you know, somebody's doing
uh Glendale's work, somebody's doing
Browners's work. I don't I don't know
what's done in Shwood, for example. Um,
but long and the short of it is that's
probably going to change.
because all these communities need to
need to have uh consistent coverage,
» Right?
» Um you know there's a there's big
difference between Bayside who's a small
uh small piece of the court
and from the monetary side they function
on a retainer
which is very different from what's
probably going to come out of
» The RFP process.
at at what level would a full-time
prosecutor be entertained? Or is that
even possible with the number of with
the volume? You know, doesn't Milwaukee
have their own prosecutors, for example.
I mean, they do, example,
» They do, but that's that's a massive
municipal court.
» Sure. I'm I'm just there's some level
where there's a tipping point. I don't
know what that is. Yeah, it's it's been
a long time since. In fact, I think Al
Meyer was the last one if that was his
name in Shwood. I mean, there hasn't
been there hasn't been a
» Yeah, there hasn't been a dedicated
prosecutor
in decades.
» Interesting. Well, right. But now we've
if there is a Northshore court,
» The number of citations and cases that
come up may rise to a certain level. And
I I don't know what that is, but maybe
Kelsey does. Brown or Brown Deer has
in-house an in-house prosecutor that
works with Glendale. You know her?
» Oh, yeah. Rebecca.
» But what I don't know what percentage of
her time she spends on prosecution
versus other purposes, but she is a
Brownier employee.
» She's pretty much only an only a
prosecutor.
» Okay. So, right now there is, it sounds
like essentially a shared prosecutor
between two other communities.
» Okay. Which opens the door for another
» When others join. That's a topic for
another day.
» Well, I'd love to continue prosecuting.
» Sure you would.
» Just just so you know, but I but at the
same time, I've got to recognize
facts here. So,
» Way the winds blow.
» Mhm.
» Um sort of I I I would have saved this
for the end, but um when when
consolidation occurs for any particular
department, um I always look beyond the
savings, right? because there's always a
number that that oh we're going to save
this and hopefully that's a great
estimate and maybe it's higher and maybe
it's lower. Um but but you know policy
boards are interested in saving money,
right? But there's also a part where we
look and say well what is if the savings
is let's say 40,000 or maybe it's 80
depending on grant funding and whatever.
Um what are we getting in return if we
don't right? What are we buying for 80
extra thousand dollars that we normally
wouldn't get? And so there's there's
there's, you know, uh, benefits to, um,
spending more money when when you get
some benefits out of it. So I'm I'm I'm
not I wouldn't call it a a done deal. I
would say it's it's something we just
need to evaluate.
» Sure.
» Uh, I guess our next guest is kind of a
staff member, but just an esteemed
member of the public. Uh, why don't you
state your name and address for the
record?
» Sure. My name is Craig Johnson.
» Oh, sorry. Wait. Could could you tr
trustee Saraban? Did you
» Yeah. Ke Kevin, can I just ask a quick
quick question of um Attorney Jake? I'm
I'm hearing in your tone that that this
is not something you would be in favor
of um other than the fact that you know
you would like to continue to prosecute.
Is there is there something else that
you would consider to be a downside?
Because I agree with Kevin. I did not
come into this thinking this was a fat
comple. And so I would very much like to
hear what your perspective is on this um
and whether you do think it is a good
thing as much as you can possibly take
yourself out of it. Is it a good thing
for the village or are you thinking it
is not a good thing for the village?
» It depends on what you want out of your
court.
Um if you want everybody to know
everybody's name I mean that's those
days are gone. Um and and in this case I
I think we will be dealing with and just
I'm again I'm reading the tea leaves but
we we'll be dealing with um a uh a
situation where for example the the
elected judge you know people got very
very involved in the judge races here
here in in Whitefish Bay because they
had their favorite candidate or their
good friend who does that kind of work
or or you know you help let's help get
elect this guy or that woman. Um, it's
not going to be that way because there
there's, you know, Judge Lipkcom is
covering
uh way more way more territory
um than uh than our current judge. Um,
and so that makes it it makes it a
completely different sort of
tone, for lack of a better description.
Does that does that help
» To some degree? If you were to say the
percentage of people who are seeing in
the courts are residents of Whitefish
Bay versus not residents of Whitefish
Bay, that that maybe also um indicates
how important that piece of it is. Would
you be able to give me a kind of a round
number?
» Oh gosh, I think the chief could, but um
because he and I have discussed this
before, but I I defer to him on that.
I wouldn't be able to give you an exact
number, but my belief is roughly 20% of
people come to court are residents,
» I guess. Okay.
» People we write citations to, I
shouldn't say, that come to court.
» Okay. So, so in some ways that feeling
of everybody knows everyone's name
already doesn't exist.
Correct.
» I would agree with that. Yes.
» Okay. We have a judge here
» Who might have a better data set.
» Yeah,
» I understand. I just I just really want
to make sure I understand where Chris,
you know, Attorney Jacel's
» Concerns are coming from and whether we
think that this is, you know, ultimately
because I agree with Kevin, there's a
yes, there's there's money, but then
there's also
the experience and, you know, in the
same way that there are other services
that I would not be in favor of
combining because of the experiences for
the village, I'm wondering how much that
would be impacted. So that that was more
what I was looking for.
» Thanks.
» Okay. Thank you.
» My apologies.
» That's okay. Thank you very much for uh
your time and your attention. My name is
Craig Johnson. I am the White Fishb
Municipal Judge elected in 2023 and my
term ends next spring. Um and just to be
clear, my opinions on this are totally
not related to my serving as judge
because I made the decision about a year
ago that I wasn't going to run for
another term. and I talked to a number
of different lawyers locally who might
might be interested and sort of talked
about why it's a nice position to have
and a good way to serve the community
etc. And I think there are interested
people um who would like to serve in the
position but in that sense it's not
personal to me um whether or not
Whitefish Bay maintains a municipal
court. I can tell you that I I think the
the figure in terms of people who show
up to court who are White Fishbay
residents is much higher than 20%. I
think it's roughly probably 50%. I sort
of keep a running mental note of it as
as we call cases and I look at people's
addresses. Um and I think that makes
sense because you know as for reasons I
I'll get into in a minute. This is a
local court that is generally within
walking distance of residents homes and
it's very easy thing and I think it's
one of the big attractions to having a
local municipal court that people can
feel that they can walk up and weigh in
on their parking ticket, on their
speeding ticket, on their ticket for not
shoveling snow, whatever it might be.
and they don't have to troop over to
Glendale to um make their case to a
judge they've never seen before or heard
of before. Quite frankly, um on a
practical level, I don't think there's
anybody who would prefer to go to
Glendale to contest a ticket that they
receive in White Fish Bay who live in
Whitefish Bay, your constituents, the
residents of Whitefish Bay. When I went
door todo running for this position a
number of years ago, there was not one
single person who told me, "Wow, you
know, I wish you would get rid of that
court. I wish I could go to Glendale to
fight my tickets. That would be much
better for me as a resident of White
Fishbay." That conversation never took
place. Um, I think people had ideas
about the court. They had ideas about,
you know, can you use Zoom? Can we
figure out how to to to make it easier
to more practical for people to to come
to court? But certainly never anybody um
discussed with me the idea of abolishing
the court or consolidating it. The idea
that it's a fate of comply I I would
disagree and agree that the fact is
there is a Northshore Municipal Court
right now that is a fatal comple it
already exists. The question is who's
going to be a member of it? Glendale,
uh, Brown Deer, and Bayside are in the
White Fish Bay Combined Municipal Court.
And, you know, as far as I can tell,
they're happy with it. But that's not
Whitefish Bay, and that's not Shorewood,
and it's not Fox Point. Fox Point, for
whatever reason, was not touched in the
study. I don't know why. I've talked to
the Fox Point municipal judge, and he
assures me that Fox Point will not be
getting rid of their municipal court.
they will not be joining the Northshore
Municipal Court. I've talked to the
judge in Shorewood and she assured me
that when this item came up for
discussion at their village board, it
was tabled because they have no interest
in pursu in in joining the Northshore
Municipal Court. So, it will not be done
in shore either. Um, so it will continue
to consist of Bayside, a very small
community, Glendale, a community about
our size, and then Brown Deer. Um, and
it will be the the tricky thing about it
is that right now you've got a judge,
Judge Lipkcom, who's somewhat of a
unicorn in that he devotes a good
percentage of his time as a lawyer being
a judge and he's paid somewhat
commensurate to that. He's paid 30 to
$38,000 a year for his service.
at a municipality of our size, 2,000
tickets a year, it's one-third more the
workload. It's going to be onethird more
of his time. It's going to be a shared
night. So, when you talk about police
overtime, you can't talk about coming
here and waiting for five minutes for
the one trial we have, you're talking
about a shared night over there with
another community. Um, and the officers
waiting for significant more time is
what I would expect. Plus, the commute
time to to go to Glendale. So, I think
the idea that you're not going to see an
increase in overtime cost is is not
correct. I think there's concern also
with um compliance with um the uh
earlier legislation
uh Wisconsin 2009 Wisconsin Act uh 402
which really wants to separate police
department administrative staff from
court staff. So, if you have
administrative staff in the police now
doing some of the court work, that's
potentially a problem under that state
law in chapter uh 755. And I think
that's something if the police is
preparing records for court could be a
problem legally for the village if if it
does that. Um, I I I think generally
people like the fact that they know
their local judge, they know their local
court. The idea that this is a thing in
the past where people don't know each
other by name when they come to court. I
can tell you that's not true. I run into
people at Sendex. I run into people at
uh, you know, Fourth July, Clo Park.
They know me. Our kids went to Whitefish
Bay schools. They know the people who,
you know,
people come to court. I know them. They
know me. And that personal touch, I
think, is something that people really
appreciate. And I think it's something
that people will miss if the court is
over in Glendale. So, um I think they
like the fact also that they can if they
don't like the judge, they can conceive
of running against the judge, not you
know them personally, but supporting a
candidate locally in White Bish Bay an
election here that's going to change who
is going to be presiding in the court
right in Glendale. That's going to be a
combined court with Glendale, Brown
Deer, Bayside, possibly River Hills.
That's not going to be in any sense a
locally controlled court, right? It's
going to be difficult to imagine, you
know,
how do you fight city hall, right?
That's always the question. You know,
you can't fight city hall. Well, you
certainly can't fight city hall if it's
located in Glendale, right? I mean,
that's going to be the the the idea that
people have about going to municipal
court for White Fish Bay when they're
going to municipal court in Glendale.
It's going to be a a a philosophically
alienating, not to, you know, get too
high in the sky, but it is going to be a
philosophically alienating
um experience to have to go fight your
parking ticket in front of a Glendale
judge and it will decrease the quality
of service in that regard that Whitefish
Bay delivers to its community. So, I
think you should look hard at this. I
think there's a number of concerns about
it. I think the savings are not worth it
quite frankly to to maintain the local
character that we have in our municipal
court where people can come and
experience you know what often times the
Fox Point judge um Scott Wales refers to
as the people's court. That's what he
calls it when people come to his court
in Fox Point which is you know right up
in Village Hall in Santa Monica. and he
knows that people can come and they know
who he who who he is and they know what
his you know personality is and what his
philosophy is and and things like that.
So I think it's very important to
maintain that local character for our
municipal court and um to not combine it
with the uh other court. The other thing
I would say about the study is that you
know it uh talks about this the joint
feasibility study. It compares it to the
Midmarine Municipal Court which is
really a bad comparison because the
Midmarine Municipal Court has 16
communities. Okay. And they have 16
sites where they have court. Each
community basically has court in their
own community from Meccan to Germantown
all over the place. And they have a
judge who's essentially a full-time
judge, right? I mean, she Chris Olas
basically does not practice law other
than be a judge for the mid-marine
municipal court. And her salary is
commensurate with that. It's easily
twice what uh Judge Lipkcom currently
gets. Um, and it's just there's there
the comparison between that and these,
you know, little assortment of villages
here is absolutely apples and oranges.
It it it there's no comparison in terms
of the way that works and the way this
would work here. I think it's very
important that you think carefully about
this before you make any decisions to go
ahead with this. I think the system is
working very well right now. I think
there's a saying that goes, if it ain't
broke, don't fix it, and it ain't broke.
So, thank you.
» I'm I'm just curious. Uh, the study that
was done, if if I was creating a study,
I think you would be one of the people I
would interview. Did
» I think so, too? They did not interview
me.
» They did not interview.
» They did not interview that question.
» I I didn't hear from any think anybody
either.
» Interesting.
» Right. I mean, they didn't they didn't
really get on the ground in terms of I I
I think the same is true of Shwood. When
I talked to Margot Kirtcher, the
Shorewood judge, she was surprised when
this thing even came up. She was like,
"They did a study. Nobody told me."
» Did they interview Village Stack like
where are they getting they must got a
citation data and you know,
» Yeah, they got data, but they I don't
think they interviewed people and they
certainly didn't come to see how court
works. As far as I can tell, they didn't
do any on the ground investigation
besides gathering data. I could be
wrong.
» Yeah. So, they did a data request. Um,
there was talk or we were told there was
potential that they'd be interviewing
staff and so both of them were informed,
but my understanding is that they didn't
interview them.
» My apologies. Who who in who initiated
this this study? So the village of
Bayside is the one that's that applied
for all the grants and there were
several that we were allowed to
participate in and so the Northshore
managers were asked which do you want to
participate in and we participated in
all of them because there's no cost and
why not
» And the confusing thing about Bayside
initiating this study is that they were
already in the court. They were already
in the Northshore mine court. So I'm not
sure they decided to study.
» You know why I'm asking the question?
I'm trying to figure out like, you know,
how impartial all of this is and it
sounds like it's
» Not completely
» Right. I I would agree with that.
Other questions or
» Yeah. Do any trust?
» I have a question for Chris. Um Chris,
you were talking about
for prosecution.
» Oh, sorry. Yeah, Chris.
» I'm not sure who you're
» Attorney Jaggles. Sorry. Okay. Um, you
were talking about going out for RFP for
prosecution. Did I hear that correct?
» Uh, that's just what I've heard out on
the street.
» Okay. Do Do you think the numbers aren't
really correct in the study? Then it
will actually be more expensive.
» I don't know that it'll be more
expensive. I know that some of the
numbers I see in there are not the
numbers
that I'm familiar with, if that makes
sense.
But
» I I'll comment on that because I do
think that the study numbers are
overstated which is why I did my own
calculations in the memo. So so
specifically from the prosecution side
they had assumptions about number of
hours spent on cases which is based on
what they have realized in the
Northshore court but our numbers in
prosecution hours have been
significantly higher. So, I used the
same number of hours and then multiplied
it by the hourly rate, which they got an
actual quote on. So, that isn't a madeup
number. That's a quote that was pro
provided by the atur or the um law firm
that represents Brown Deer and Glendale
currently. Uh but yeah, the idea was
that potentially the communities would
go out to RFP. we would have per the
contract, I think it's five or six years
that we could remain with our current um
prosecution service or prosecution firm
or we could go out to RP and that
decision could be made at a later time.
It doesn't have to be made now. But I
guess all that to say is yes, I think
the prosecution savings in the study is
overstated because it's based on an
assumption of fewer hours being spent
which could or could not be realized.
And so I feel like my numbers are pretty
conservative and so that's why I added
those additional numbers in the memo.
» And the other thing I would say about
that is if you're really talking about
doing a court on the same night as
another community in the Glendale
Municipal Court, your prosecutors are
going to be spending far more time there
than they do here. I mean, we can get
through cases quick here. And if you're,
you know, if Judge Lipkcom is, I don't
know what he's going to be doing, you
know, 5 to 7, you know, whatever it's
going to be, it's going to be more
difficult to do that and that adds up to
more hours as far as I can tell.
» That's why initially there was
discussion about White Fish Bay being
paired with Bayside because we have the
same prosecutor. Um, I'm not sure if
that's what would actually end up
happening. Uh, but I do hear what you're
saying and that's part of the reason why
there's this desire from the existing
participants to have joint prosecution.
Well, that's always assuming or that's
that's assuming that
we're always going to have the same
prosecutor, which is a I mean, it's
there's a big difference between
are we always going to have the same
prosecutor and are are we always going
to have a need for police and fire? I
mean, I there's a
consolidation in this situation is is
vastly different than other ways that
we've done other consolidation in the
Northshore.
» Quick question just about the memo and
the savings numbers, but particularly
the innovation grant that is that
renewable like you have a fiveyear
window. Is it renewable after that? So
year six, any potential grant funding
that's not on the table? Okay. So for
for long-term purposes, you you are and
and knowing that
from what you're suggesting um that
Shwood is not interested
and so this all white you know everybody
joins this court is likely not
happening. You know, the the the numbers
are closer to the 36 and I'm sorry, 36
or 31. 31.
» It's 36. I really
» Yeah. Oh, I see. So, okay. So, it is
six. Got it. Um
36 is the ongoing
savings in your especially in year six
going forward. So, that's you know, it's
it's nice to have the potential of an
innovation grant, but you know, I always
look longterm and so um all right. Are
there any other questions for our judge?
I want to thank you for coming. Um,
thank you.
» Lots of great information that um, memos
and studies don't give uh, color to and
you've done a great job tonight. So,
» Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
» Were should we call other members of the
public or Yeah. Are there other members
of the public or anyone else staff
members who'd like to speak on that? You
will. All right. Come come come to the
» So my caveat is this is also my husband.
Um so my name is Paige Styler. I'm
obviously a resident of Boyish Bay. I'm
also a lawyer and I'm a public defender.
» Do you need her address?
» I speak really fast too. Sorry. Do you
need my address?
» Address, please.
» 4918 North Idol Wild Avenue. What a
great
» Proud neighborhood. Uh proud neighbor of
Jay and his family.
» I'm sorry to hear that.
» Yeah, I know.
Um, so the one thing I just wanted to to
say to the the to all of you is that I'm
a real big believer in procedural
justice. And when a person gets a
ticket, even if they are totally guilty
of that ticket, how they are treated
makes a big difference. And I always I
have come up and I've watched my husband
and yes, I'm very proud of him, but I'm
proud of everyone I see in the court and
how they treat people who are not only
from Whitefish Bay, but outside the
community. It's very important to me to
have a good reputation about the people
who come through here, whether or not
that person is from here or not. You
cannot control another when you
outsource, you can't control what
happens. And if something bad happens
and they say, "This is a White Fishbay
ticket and this is how I was treated."
How are you going to defend yourselves?
We control how we treat other human
beings by keeping it local. by making it
a people's court. When you have
prosecutors who care about what they're
doing, when you have a judge who cares,
when you have a clerk who cares, when
you have the police department baifts, I
don't know how they're exactly called,
I've seen amazing things in this very
small court in which even when a person
is found guilty, they're going to pay a
fine, they're going to get something,
they're very thankful to the court and
how they were treated. And I just want
to say you can't that's something that
money can't buy. And it's really
important to how your community is
viewed. And when Jay was talking about
earlier about, you know, we want
everyone to love White Fishbay. We want
to see the big boom. When you do these
other things, they can be you just have
one bad article and kind of that's where
all that goes. People have perceptions.
So, I want to just say that I think it's
really important that we control it. Um,
and then if you don't like something
that someone does, you vote them out.
That's kind of the the best way to
handle it. Um, and what else can I tell
you? Um, I just think it's it's great.
You guys should be proud of yourselves.
When I come up here and I watch um
people think I'm ridiculous that I come
and I watch my husband do ticket after
ticket after ticket, but watching um you
know the court in action is is a is
really important and how people are
treated. Um and there's also things like
there's truency, there's other things
that come through here. I think having
an understanding of the White Fishb
school system is really important. Um
and then lastly, what I would say is we
all have great kids, right? We all have
perfect children and they're never going
to make a mistake. But there are really
good kids, and you probably know of
them, that will get an underage drinking
ticket. And there are really good kids
that will do something wrong and they'll
take a a prank too far. And I think our
community needs to make sure that
whoever is elected to position, whatever
this court is, make sure that they
represent kind of where we want. I mean,
people and children sometimes need to be
held accountable, but we don't want to
ruin their lives either. and you lose
that control when it goes in a different
um community. I know that one thing that
was very concerning to this community
was um pedestrians and to make sure that
uh people were watching out for
pedestrians and so I know the police
department did a lot of work in that
area and so I watched a lot of tickets
come in front of my husband on that and
because he knew it was a concern for
this community. It's when someone took
the ticket or was being found guilty. He
didn't just say, "Okay, you're guilty or
whatever, whatever." He talked to them
about the importance, how important it
is to slow down, how important it is to
watch out for pedestrians. We are a
walking community. When your judge, when
your police department, when your clerk,
when everyone knows the concerns of this
community, I think you can really make
your court um represent it in a very
good way. Um, and I think it also gives
you that latitude that when a good kid
messes up, you can figure out a way that
it they can still become a nurse or they
can still become a lawyer. They can
still become some of these things
without having something that they
explain have to explain to a bar
association 30 years later that they got
an underage drinking ticket. So that's
what I would say.
» All right. Thank you. Any other members
of the public interested?
Okay. So, my next question is for
Kelsey. What do you want from us
tonight?
» So, this was just noticed as an initial
introduction discussion. Uh, so if
there's a desire then to continue having
this conversation, then it would be
direction to staff to draft the
ordinances and the um contract or it
could be direction for additional
information or you know, whatever the
board needs.
Um,
so I just just a couple of things on on
along those on that line. Uh,
Judge Johnson kind of echoed
um,
you know, I would have echoed some of,
you know, a lot of the concerns that he
shared. um
especially the
uh the the workloads and the you know
the the people's court aspect. Uh
there's there's one caveat that that I
want to put in here for us to think
about is I think we've been we've been
incredibly fortunate to have someone
like Judge Johnson who actively wanted
to take this role and is actively trying
to recruit potential replacements.
we might not always be that lucky and
I I don't you know that
» In terms of getting a candidate
» Getting a candidate I mean there have
been times where you know for for and
this is across all you know municipal
elected officials um you know who I know
that you know that Judge Lipkum in
Glendale has been there a very long time
and to the best of my knowledge has a
great reputation but at the like what
happens you know if it you
[clears throat] know when when he you
know when he leaves are they gonna have
you know those kind of an issue if there
is a consolidated court I think that we
all of the communities involved would
have an easier chance at would would
have a better chance at having
candidates because there would be such a
um such a workload
Um that is the only
sticking sticking point to me is that
you know it's possible that that becomes
more than just a
you know a a a a part-time once a month
you know gig the more of these
communities that that come to it again
the only sticking point I have no
interest in in this in moving forward
with it um but I just want to if in if
others do that's one thing that I that I
would throw out there.
» That's the first thing I I heard the
rumor that uh our judge wasn't
continuing and I wondered what happened
if nobody stepped forward. So that is
absolutely inaccurate um commentary.
That being said in we've had two judges
in 25 and that's the thing stick around
for a while.
» But you know again
» You need that one
» We've been inc we've been incredibly
lucky and same thing with Glendale.
Judge Lipkin has been there since the
dawn of time as far as I know. There was
there was a person who expressed
interest in the position
» In ours.
» Yes.
» Yes. I Yes. I I mean I know but yeah,
» But I I just I
» I think we'll fill it.
» But four years from now, will we fill
it?
» Four years from then, will we fill it? I
I just
» You're not wrong.
» I that is the only
sticking point for me.
» Trusty Saravan or Casper?
So yeah, I'm I'm curious what your
thoughts are in that we needed direct
staff. So let us
» I I came in here rather dubious about it
and then listening to two of the three
people who spoke. I am leaving even more
so. So I am not super enthusiastic about
proceeding with this either.
» Thank you. Trusty Casper.
» Same. You both are really good
attorneys. changed my mind.
» There you go. Um, yeah, my perspective
is really shared the same thoughts of
the other trust, three trustees in that
the the savings if the savings number
was double, triple, or quadruple, then
you'd have my attention. Um, I I do look
at this as a $36,000 purchase. And and
what what does Whitefish Bay get out of
this by not consolidating? and and I I I
think what um Judge Johnson just
described was completely valuable,
completely worth that kind of funds to
pass up. Um so I I I think amongst the
four of us currently um none of us are
interested in in continuing. We we are
missing three other trustees. Um, I
would I I I would like to hear from them
at some point what their thoughts were
because at some point we did discuss
this and whether this should be on the
agenda and I think it was like, hey,
let's at least talk about in the agenda.
So, I'm I'm not entirely positive what
the other three trustees think. Um, so
perhaps you could
do I do we want to put it on on a future
agenda or do we need could we have the
three trustees reach out to the village
manager to say they disagree with this
and they would like to I think it
shouldn't be on a future agenda until
another trustee that isn't here um says
that they'd like to put it on. I
couldn't agree more.
» That makes the most sense. I couldn't
agree more and I and I think you'll find
at least one of the trustees who's not
here that completely agrees with us.
» Okay. And I mean the the other little
caveat I'd put in there is I I'm basing
this mostly on the math. Um if if it
turns out that we've made some
assumption that's wrong and that you
know the the numbers are double and
triple and and because we are heading
for a moment of levy limit issues and so
we shouldn't be leaving um stones
unturned. So
my only caveat is simply
let's continue to have an open mind as
any new information comes to light that
changes the mathematics of this. But for
the moment I think it's uh four trustees
have basically said we're not interested
in moving forward and until another
trustee steps forward or math has
changed I think it is u off of our
agenda. Did you do you need
do you was there action for this or this
discussion? So this is staff this is
going to be staff direction.
» I mean the entire budget of the minutes
of court is like 180,000. So it's not
going to be quadruple that.
» Right. Yeah. I
Good point.
» Yeah.
» Good point.
» Okay. That's
» All right. Well, uh thank you for
joining us tonight.
» Thank you. Appreciate your uh public
service.
» Thank you. We will then move on to uh
number four discussion action on
ordinance 1928 to reduce the speed limit
on a portion of North Lake Drive to 15
miles per hour. Chief.
» Yeah. So, as part of our ongoing process
to improve pedestrian and bike safety,
um I'm here to propose reducing the
school zone speed limit on Lake Drive,
uh the portion that's north of Silver
Spring, which runs um approximately
Carlile to Bell um from 20 miles an hour
to 15 miles an hour. Um this would align
with the school zone um state statutes
and other school zones bay. Um the
current 20 miles an hour uh limit was is
allowed under an exception in state law
which gives local municipalities an
ability to to have an exemption for
different speed limits within a certain
parameter. Um in 2023 the village board
lowered the speed limit the overall
speed limit in the area from 30 to 25.
To me, it makes sense to to lower it to
15 um when school is crossing um or
school is um kids are going to and from
school. Um this uh signage has already
been approved by the village board to to
improve the outdated signs that are
there so we can accommodate um having
the 15 miles an hour on those new signs.
And if I remember correctly, isn't isn't
it 15 on other school zones in Wet like
Marlboro and every school?
» So this is an this is correcting a
oopsies really.
» State statute says the school zone is 15
miles hour. Um like I said that same
statute gives you the ability to change
it, but I don't see a reason why we
would have it at 20 m hour
» When it differs from anywhere in White
Fish Bay. Um, this was presented to the
public works committee. Yes,
» This one was not.
» Well, I the signage was the signage,
» But the the ordinance never was, but the
signage was approved. How about that?
» Yes.
» Yeah, we we just felt it prudent to get
this done before the school year.
» I I have a slightly different topic
question and I I'm not sure it's going
to be for the chief. I'm not sure who's
going to answer the question, but um we
have the capacity to um change the speed
limits for different kind of vehicles
like trucks. Can you you know like
there's highways you can have truck
speeds and regular speeds? Do you know
if municipalities can differentiate
between vehicles and trucks and speeds?
» I believe on local roads you can.
» No.
» No. Okay. I was just asking.
» I think so.
where I was going was differentiating
with um ebikes and maximum speeds and if
we can regulate truck speeds, but
apparently we can't. So, never mind. Uh
are there any trustee questions about
this or members of the public?
Hearing none, Jay, do you think you
could give me um number four?
» Yes. I'm sorry. I move the village board
adopt ordinance number 1928 to amend the
speed limit identified in municipal code
6-4 from 20 mph to 15 mph or North Lake
Drive from a 158 ft south of the south
curb line of East Carile Avenue extended
to a 172 ft north of the north curb line
of East Bell Avenue extended at such
time children are present in the school
crossing zone.
» Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second.
» Thank you, Anna. Uh, any further
discussion?
Hearing none. All those in favor say,
"I."
» I.
» Uh, any opposed?
Motion carries. Thank you.
» Okie dokie.
Uh, moving on
to number
five, discussion action on ordinance
1929
to create article 7 of the of chapter 14
of the municipal code in regard to lead
service line replacement LC.
» Um, so actually attorney Jacobs is going
to take this one because it's really
largely a legal leader legal procedure
uh that we need to adjust.
» Yeah. Uh, thank you. Um,
This is the result of some recent
changes
um in the in the statutes, changes that
were welcome changes. And I say this
because um we had been using uh the
special assessment
vehicle um as a way to to pay for
improvements to properties uh and then
to assess the cost of those
improvements. The the the
state now the department of
administration has come down and said,
"Well, wait a minute. you can't you
can't be um uh especially assessing
private property. Um in other words,
it's all got to be devoted to the
public. Now, that being said, the
legislature came out with Act 137, which
is a statute they passed in 2017,
um, which, by the way, has public
service commission advanced approval,
which is important because
everything we talk about when we're
paying for utilities like this is, are
we on the right side of the PSC rules
requirements? In this case, it's been
determined that if we pursue this Act
137 approach, um that we are free from
having to submit everything to the
public service commission for approval.
That's a bunch of uh legal ease
unfortunately, but um we just have to
get get a our arms wrapped around that
first. Um what the statute does is says
that from from now on um
basically uh improvements can be made to
private property specifically for lead
service line laterals. Um and those
improvements can be made using uh loans
from the municipality not from the
utility. Everything has to be kept
separate from the uh Whiteish Bay Water
Utility um for our purposes on this. But
the the exemption allows for having work
done and paying for that work with a
special charge for current services.
That's the same statute that you use
when somebody doesn't cut their lawn and
the village will come in and cut down
the, you know, the chest high weeds or
whatever it might be. uh clean something
up and clear all that out that under the
statute can be put on the tax bill for
the property that was that was affected.
So it it becomes a a u a way of
enforcement as well. Um, and I say that
because
the special the um I'm sorry, the
special charge for current services um
that that is done um and and and set up
and in setting it up there's there's a
number of documents that have to be
created to um to to satisfy this regime.
One for example is that there has to be
an ordinance that says that uh that
nobody can maintain
uh the uh the lead the lead laterals if
there is a need to rehabilitate
the uh sanitary right in that same
location or the water man. If a water
mane uh is replaced,
the the homeowner is required to take
the actions to remove the uh the the uh
lead lead lateral. Um
the the statute though also in envisions
a negotiated uh lease for that for that
property. I guess at least is the wrong
term, but an agreement um
to uh to to allow for lead service
replacement and to do so
um under so so you've got today uh
ordinance 1929. That's the action we're
taking today. Um but the uh le policy
that that's in the past uh act 37.
Yeah, there's a loan agreement. That's
what I was trying to drive at. So, the
the loan agreement has to be entered
into and then money can be
loaned out. Essentially, the village the
village borrows the money and then pays
for the special charges with that money
and then it goes on the tax bill for
that property or gets paid in a a
negotiated um loan agreement which will
specify the term, the interest rates
which by the way are very low. Uh and um
uh and the um the access. Now, the
access is also spelled out in some of
the documents in the uh in the packet.
And by the way, this is a kind of a
complex, messy situation. And I I
applaud Kelsey for the memo she put
together because uh it makes it a lot
easier to understand what's going on
here because it's all very succinct. Um
so in the process we got a
pre-construction inspection and private
uh replacement commitment that that
document has to be signed
um
and that that essentially chooses
between a loan agreement payment in full
or or a special charge. Now, a special
charge can sit on the on the the uh tax
roles for the property until there is
some sort of foreclosure or sale of the
property. Um that that makes sure that
the village gets its money back no
matter what. And so it's a lot of times
when you when you sell a property, you
you have a closing and at the closing in
comes the uh the list of exceptions from
the title company. Well, this is one of
those ex those exceptions that's going
to be on that title and it has to be
paid out in order to in order to close
it out when the property is sold. If the
property is not sold, you're still
hoping to depend on the loan agreement
and the uh the property owner being
current on their payments. Um
the um
the interesting thing that was was added
here
um is [snorts] that in order to
participate in it's section 660627
sub8 AG1.
» Really?
» Yes.
» Okay.
» Yes. And uh and so that's that's that's
where the amendment landed that I was
talking about from 2017. It requires
that in order to participate and the PSC
backs this up, in order to participate
in in the funding,
um, every property in that jurisdiction
should be subject to, uh, required
connection,
I'm sorry, required replacement. Um so
so that's that's required if if we're
not maintaining that system as a village
again not as a utility um then the the
department of administration or the
department of natural resources might
withdraw our authority to to conduct
these programs. Um, I I say that
but I point out that what Kelsey has put
together here, including the list of
attachments, um, accomplishes what needs
to be accomplished. Um,
and can help get this get this done. Um,
let's see.
» And this isn't specific to Wes Bay. It's
» Right. The statute is the statute is uh
in use elsewhere. Um, Kelsey modeled a
lot of these documents after the the
same process in Cedarberg.
» Okay.
» And they they had some they had some
nice ordinances and whatnot. Kelsey
brought them to my attention. They I
thought they were great. And um so we've
been in consultation with other
communities like like uh like like I
just like um like I just described,
Cedarberg. Um, but we've also consulted
with experts in this field just to make
sure there wasn't something that we
weren't weren't catching. Um, and I say
experts meaning u
an attorney in particular who
specializes in this statute and this
action. Um, [clears throat]
and everything is in order. I will I
will tell you that uh it can the money
can only be spent in pursuant to a
program that's administered by the
municipality.
In other words, nobody can just look up
and say, "Well, I'm going to replace my
lateral, my my lead lateral to give me
some money."
» Yeah. Um, it has to be part of a village
program or uh, and uh, Trusty Sarman had
brought this up possibly on an emergency
basis,
you know, and we put together a draft to
do that if if we need to do that. Um,
let's see.
» I hope we have enough.
» Yeah, I was going to say you're going to
want to stop me now. Yeah, I'm gonna
[laughter] stop you there. Um, quick
comment. I thought Trusty Deman had some
questions. Did he contact you and yeah,
» Get this resolved?
» Well, we talked over the phone. He had
questions about if we did the financial
assistance program that's authorized
through the PSC if that would mean that
we didn't we didn't have to do the
mandatory replacement ordinance. And I
looked into that and my research showed
that it would still be required.
» Yeah, it's it's required. I just want to
make sure in absentia that he got his
words in.
» It's required and that's that's what
keeps it out of the PSC's uh snare, you
know.
» Got it.
Are there any specific questions for
staff from any trustees?
Any members of the public?
Hearing none. Um there's a
» Service line. Um could that funding be
used? It's my understand
» Can you come up to the microphone just
because we do have people at home.
» Yeah. Sorry.
I'll start my question over. Um, so if a
resident informs the DPW or utility that
they're replacing their private side
independently of a village project, it's
my understanding that the utility has to
replace their public side. So, could
those funds be used in that scenario?
Because I think that that happens
enough for it to be addressed.
» You mean where it's just a single solo
project?
» Correct. It can be done but it can't it
can't be eligible for funding.
» That was my question.
» Okay.
» Thank you.
» And I'm going to look at Jay unless he
has a question to entertain motion
number
» Sorry. First
Sarban. Did you want to jump in with
your suggested amendment
the ordinance?
» Yeah. Yeah. I I had just suggested and I
think that's what the memo was that you
guys got later this afternoon. I had
suggested that since we were changing
the ordinance now that if someone had an
emergency with their with their service
line and we are now requiring that they
replace it, we're no longer allowing
them to repair it that it seemed to me
that would make it eligible for this
money. And I think I think we kind of
covered that already, but that was just
what my thinking was behind it. And so
what was passed out is version two and
that that's what we're discussing today.
» So you don't have in front of well you
might but um we've were delivered a new
version of this um with language on uh
emergency replacements.
» Correct.
» Right.
» So I just wanted to clarify for anybody
that maybe is listening at home. It's
different than what was included in the
packet in that the eligibility language
has changed to include emergency
» And so yes. which is still is still
different than someone just opting to do
it, you know, absent an emergency,
absent a break.
» Do I'm sorry. Do we have
» Do we have email? We got it via email
this afternoon, Jay.
» No, no, no. What I what I'm asking is do
we have
what constitutes an emergency?
» I think it it described a break and that
it and it had to be, you know, in
consultation then with the village
engineer who would look and confirm that
this was a break that needed to be
replaced.
» Exactly. It's a it's an administrative
decision by the public works director,
» I believe, is how it's written, right?
» It's by the village engineer.
» Village engineer. Okay. And is is there
not an emergency
» A planned break? I don't think
» I'm just I I I that's one thing I didn't
see and and I still don't see it. Where
where is that in the in the ordinance?
» It's on page three and it's in blue.
It's the second line of blue text.
» Oh, as deter I'm sorry. Determined by
the village engineer. Okay.
» Yeah. Um, Attorney Jacles, are you
you're good with with that?
» Yes, I've gone over this and edited it.
» Okay.
» Made some changes.
» All right. Actually, now that we have
the word village engineer, do we we we
still use the term village engineer.
» That's all over our code. So, that's why
I didn't instead of public works
director, it's a defined term.
» Fair enough. I I know we used to have
one and then we Yeah. Okay.
» Yeah. That's why I I instinctively said,
» Yep. You know,
» That's fine. If if it's public
» Uh all right so if you'd like to make a
motion
» Trusty cat you do I don't know if you
talked to trusty Casper on this
» Okay
» Good
» I'm looking out for you Anna
» Okay um
» Okay uh with that said I move the
village board adopt ordinance number 129
creating article 7 of chapter 14 of the
municipal code with regard to lead
service line replacement as amended.
» Perfect. Do I hear a second?
» I second.
» I'm going to give that to Anna. I think
she got it in.
» Oh, wow.
» Um,
» Right, Terra. [laughter]
» They're all yours.
» Any further discussion? Hearing none.
All those in favor say I.
» I.
» Any opposed?
» Motion carries.
All right. Now, we move into our final
item of the night, which is uh to go
into close session. Tara, do you want to
do it? Oh, I'll let you, Jay. You're
there. [laughter]
» I'll I'll do my best trusty Sarah uh
impression here. Uh I move the village
board convening a close session pursuant
to Wisconsin state statute 19.851c
considering employment promotion
compensation or performance evaluation
data of any public employee over which
the governmental body has jurisdiction.
I think so.
» Or exercises responsibility
regarding 2027 employee compensation
benefits pursuant to Wisconsin state
statute 19.851E
deliberating or negotiating the purchase
of public property, investing in public
funds, conducting other specified
business
» Whenever competitive and or bargaining
reasons require a close session
specifically regarding contract
negotiations with the police union.
» Thank you. Do a second.
I'll second it.
» I was letting Anna do it. I was letting
you do it. [laughter]
» All right. Uh, all those in favor of the
motion to go into close session, say I.
» I. Any opposed? Motion carries. We are
now going into close session.
» Pause the recording.
There's nobody else in the
» Yeah.
» Room. Okay. We have reconvened into open
session. It is 8:07 and the last thing
we need to do is
» Mr. President, I move to adjourn.
» Oh, I'm giving it to Jay and is there
anyone to second?
» Second.
» Thank you, Anna. All those in favor of
adjourning say I.
» I.
» Any opposed? Motion carries. We are
journed. Thank you all for
» Spending two hours of your life
with the public meetings that we have.
» Good night.