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Good evening.

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Um, I'd like to call to order the August

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5th, 2026 meeting for the Zanesville

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Board of Zoning Appeals.

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Um,

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if everyone would please join with me

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for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance

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» Allegiance to the flag of the United

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States of America, and to the republic

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for which it stands, one nation under

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God,

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indivisible, with liberty and justice

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for all.

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» We'll do a roll call.

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» Katie Glenn.

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» Present.

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» Amanda Miller.

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» Present.

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» Josh Fedor.

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» Present.

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» Jim Hurst.

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» Present.

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» Josh Martin.

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Absent is he uh

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Have we heard anything from Josh?

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» Yeah, he he was going to be absent

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tonight.

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» Okay. Thank you. So, we have a quorum of

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four.

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» Thank you.

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Our first item is to approve the meeting

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minutes from July 1st, 2026.

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Is there any corrections, additions?

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Wonderful.

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» I move that we approve them.

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» Second.

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» Go to a vote.

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» That'll be Jim Hurst.

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» Aye.

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» Josh Fedor.

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» Aye.

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» Amanda Miller.

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» Aye.

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» Katie Glenn.

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» Aye.

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» Motion passes.

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» Thank you.

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Okay, tonight we will start with we have

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uh

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docket number 202619UV.

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Um, it's a continuous continuance from

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September 2nd, 2026.

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Um, staff, do you want to

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» Uh yeah, so this is this project has

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been uh

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in our office for a month or so. Uh

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after reviewing it, we found out that a

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traffic study was warranted at this

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intersection given the the subdivision

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uh being constructed north of the site

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along with what is being proposed as

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part of this development. Um the staff

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in the rules is entitled to one

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automatic continuance.

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Um we're going to exercise that uh so

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the petitioner has an opportunity to

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complete the traffic impact study.

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Um hopefully um the study is completed

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prior to uh the September 2nd meeting

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and so we'll be able to have

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the public hearing [clears throat] for

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this uh this item at that point.

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» Thank you.

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Um

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at this point I'll enter a motion to

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continue case 2026-19

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UV to the September 2nd, 2026 meeting.

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» Uh if you if that's the motion, I'll

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second it. If not, I'll make the motion.

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» That wasn't the motion.

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» That was the motion.

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» That's I'll [laughter] do the second

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second.

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» I'll take a second.

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» Tim Ross?

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» I.

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» Josh Fedor?

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» I.

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» Amanda Miller?

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» I.

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» Katie Glenn?

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» I.

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» Motion passes.

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» Thank you.

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Okay, on to continued business.

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Uh we are at case 2026-15

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UV.

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Staff, would you mind outlining

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uh this variance of use?

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» Uh yeah, so this is uh as you said, this

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is a use variance located 526 North 1200

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East.

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Um

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the property

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uh is zoned AG, right? So it's subject

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to the permitted uses in section 194082,

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but essentially what that means is the

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warehousing component, um I think the

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word that is used is storage barns.

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The component of that project is not a

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permitted use by right in AG.

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Um the overall project consists

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primarily of two components. There is an

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equestrian element to this, which has

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uh a horse arena, uh some stables,

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and uh you can see the conceptual

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layout, um

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as part of exhibit eight, I believe.

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Um, you can see the schematic layout of

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the arena and the proposed storage

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buildings.

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» A time out. Can we able to get the

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video, the visual?

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» Well, that's what I'm I'm

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don't know what's going on with the

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internet. That's what I was trying to

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figure out.

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IT, are you having issues with your

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internet?

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Well, I fixed my screen,

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I think,

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but I can't fix my internet.

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While we work on that,

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let me see if it'll reload.

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Okay.

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Updated conceptual layout. Let's see if

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it'll work.

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Is yours working?

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We can use this one. This will work.

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» Fix this.

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» Thank you, sir.

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Plug it in that one.

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There you go.

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Sorry about that, everyone.

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Maybe.

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There you go.

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It's on the back screen.

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Now it's on the front.

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» Thank you.

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» Okay.

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So, you'll see a conceptual

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rendering.

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Um as I was saying, this comprises uh a

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two

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two uses. One is the equestrian

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component. Um my mouse is not working

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for yours. Here's okay.

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» Because you're using the other one.

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» It's okay.

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I'm sorry. I'm not able to get this

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thing to zoom in the way it needs to.

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This is the equestrian component up here

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with the horse arena. And the part in

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question, which is the subject of

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tonight's use variance,

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are the proposed storage barns that you

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see uh laid out along this path.

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Again, just to reiterate, um while it's

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all while it's part while all of this is

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part of the same project, uh the use

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variance component is not specific to

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the equestrian elements of this project.

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Uh those elements could be developed

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today with regardless of how the outcome

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of this project was to of the use

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variance was to go. Um we're only

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talking about the warehousing or the

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storage barn component of this project.

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Um to get to the staff report,

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I'm not going to spend a lot of time

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going through the uh

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the the reasons why we would support

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something. I'm going to talk on the

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reasons why we

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did not land on a favorable

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recommendation. Uh

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mostly being item number three, the need

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for the variance arises from a condition

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on the site. We disagreed with that

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finding.

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Uh finding number four, uh the zoning

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ordinance constitutes an unnecessary

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hardship in the use of the property. We

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disagreed on that finding.

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Um and the last finding, which was

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finding number five, uh the approval

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does not interfere substantially with

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the comprehensive plan.

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Uh although several commitments have

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been made by the petitioner, um and I

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will let him speak to those during his

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presentation.

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Um staff still feels like the

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fundamental use of warehouse

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um is not an agricultural use as

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recommended by the comprehensive plan.

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Um and so those are the three primary

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reasons why staff issued an unfavorable

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recommendation.

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Um I'm happy to talk about any

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parts of the staff report or any of the

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proposed um exhibits.

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Um if you all have any questions, I'm

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happy to answer those. Otherwise, I'll

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turn it back over to you.

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» Thank you.

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Does the board have any other questions?

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» Time, no.

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» Wonderful.

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Well, I will have the petitioner come

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up. If you could state your name and

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address.

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And as you take the stage, I'll just ask

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that everyone

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please speak calmly and respectfully

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throughout tonight.

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Um even when there are differences of

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opinions, I think we can all do that.

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And so thank you for helping us maintain

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a

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uh productive and courteous discussion.

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» Uh Andy Newton, 5 English Green,

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Westfield, Indiana.

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Uh have you been given the renderings

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» [snorts]

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» For the property?

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» They are on the agenda if I can get them

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to pull up here. That is what I'm trying

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to pull up for you.

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» Pass them out. I got some copies here.

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» We have renderings. I don't know if we

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have everything in your hand cuz I can't

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see what's in your hand.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. We We do have that. But can I

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have it again?

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» Yeah, no, that's That's fine. I just

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wanted to see what you're holding up.

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I promise I'm a a better builder than I

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am presenter, so I apologize.

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Good evening, Madam Chair, members of

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the board. My name is Andy Newton, and

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I'm the petitioner for case 2026-15-UV

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regarding 526 North 1200 East. We are

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requesting a use variance to allow what

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the BZA calls warehouse general use on

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this property within the rural general

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agricultural zoning district.

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Since the previous hearing, we have

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continued to work with the staff and

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have supplemented the record with

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additional materials, including an

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updated operations plan, traffic impact

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study,

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commitments, and supporting information

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to address general concerns.

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The site currently sits on 25 acres

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containing remnants of a landscaping

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business and is situated in an area

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characterized by a mixture of

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agricultural activities, rural

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residential uses, and agricultural

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support operations.

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This request is not for a large

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industrial park, distribution hub, or

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high-intensity commercial operation.

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Rather, it is a request to allow a

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warehouse use within buildings and

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operational parameters that are in line

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with the intended agricultural use.

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The requested relief is limited to this

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property and does not change the zoning

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classifications of surrounding parcels.

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The site has been planned to function

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safely and efficiently while minimizing

287
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,520
impacts on neighboring properties. We

288
00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,600
have gone around and inputted as much as

289
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,880
we could from uh from input from

290
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,720
neighbors.

291
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,920
Uh as reflected in the conceptual

292
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,080
rendering, we feel the design adds to

293
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,960
the rural character of the area rather

294
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,960
than takes away.

295
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,320
In addition, we have voluntary proposed

296
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,920
commitments that will govern how the

297
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,800
property is operated. These commitments

298
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,520
provide enforceable limitations and

299
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,600
assurances beyond what would

300
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,480
otherwise be required.

301
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,800
In addition to commitments submitted, I

302
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,920
would also like to add a commitment of

303
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,400
when the loan is paid off that stores

304
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:34,480
operations will cease and operations

305
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,640
will be 100% agricultural.

306
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,720
Our objective has been straightforward.

307
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,680
Create a use that is operationally

308
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,160
successful while adding value to the

309
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,840
community.

310
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,440
Traffic is one of the primary concerns

311
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,600
when evaluating a use variance and we

312
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,400
understand that. The traffic analysis

313
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,520
was intended to evaluate the impact of

314
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,520
proposed use on local roadways and to

315
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,320
determine whether the surrounding

316
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,200
transportation network can accommodate

317
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,560
anticipated traffic.

318
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,400
Our position is that the evidence

319
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,360
demonstrated that the proposed operation

320
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,560
can occur without creating unreasonable

321
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,720
traffic impacts or compromising public

322
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:08,520
safety.

323
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,360
I recognize there may be concerns about

324
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,840
whether a warehouse use is appropriate

325
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,360
in an agricultural zoning district. The

326
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,720
master plan calls for uses agricultural

327
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,360
in nature.

328
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,600
With the limitations put in place, we

329
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,040
feel this project is agricultural in

330
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,120
nature.

331
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,440
The board is not being asked whether

332
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,440
warehouses should be permitted

333
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,640
everywhere in AG zoning. The question

334
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,160
before the board is whether this

335
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,080
particular property with its unique

336
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,720
characteristics and proposed

337
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,760
operational limitations is appropriate

338
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,440
for the requested relief. We believe

339
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,040
that it is.

340
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,880
We respectfully submit the approval of

341
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,240
the variance can be granted without

342
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:47,720
being injurious to the public health,

343
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,760
safety, morals, or general welfare

344
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,720
without substantially affecting the use

345
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,680
and value of surrounding properties.

346
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,000
Thank you for your time and

347
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,640
consideration. We appreciate the staff

348
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,760
review of our process. Jonathan, you've

349
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,320
been great. Uh the commitments received

350
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,880
from the neighboring property owners,

351
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,520
thank you. And uh

352
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,600
and the opportunity to present this

353
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,600
request to the board. Thank you. At this

354
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,160
time, we respectfully request approval

355
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,400
of petition 2026-15

356
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,400
UV and I would be happy to answer any

357
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,520
questions from the board.

358
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,520
» Thank you. Appreciate it.

359
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,760
Fellow board members, do you have any

360
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,760
questions?

361
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,040
» You talk about

362
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,560
uh storage of agricultural equipment in

363
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,800
these buildings.

364
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,600
Um

365
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,240
Yeah, you use tractors and farm

366
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,040
machinery. However, a lot farm machinery

367
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,480
is larger than these doorways that

368
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,480
you're proposing if I remember

369
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,680
14-ft doorways.

370
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,240
» Okay.

371
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,240
» Um

372
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,120
I just feel like you're limiting

373
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,360
yourself quite a bit on what you can

374
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,440
store in that if you're trying to store

375
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,520
agricultural equipment.

376
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,480
These are what? 14 by

377
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,040
50 if I remember.

378
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,360
» So, 14 1/2 by 50.

379
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,080
» 14 1/2, I'm sorry.

380
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,640
» Yep.

381
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,400
» And how tall are the doorways?

382
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:08,160
» How tall? Uh 14 ft.

383
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,840
So, 12 by 14 would is

384
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,320
But door doorways openings can be

385
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,920
changed, so

386
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,480
» Okay.

387
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,160
It just seems a little bit tight for

388
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,160
some of this larger farm machinery that

389
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,960
most folks around here, I mean, the days

390
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,640
of the little John Deere tractors are

391
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,120
kind of gone, but

392
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,640
um seems a little small.

393
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,000
And then you said after you were done

394
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,320
with the storage here you paid off the

395
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,600
» Once the loan is paid off.

396
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,600
» Once the loan is paid off and

397
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,760
what's then what are you going to do

398
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,360
with the buildings?

399
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,400
» What's that?

400
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,920
» What are you going to use the buildings

401
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,360
for then?

402
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:43,080
» I'm going to turn them over to the

403
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,080
operations of the equestrian center.

404
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,120
» Equestrian center center is then going

405
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,560
to use them for

406
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,600
» Uh

407
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,560
» More stables?

408
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,600
» Well,

409
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,680
so more more storage for trailers, uh

410
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,360
members of the facility, uh things to

411
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,040
put them in as well.

412
00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:01,640
Uh and also I proposed not paving the

413
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,880
facility, keeping it gravel, so if later

414
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,680
down the road development needs to

415
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:08,000
occur, it's pretty easy to take the

416
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,280
post-frame buildings apart.

417
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,480
» I think you'll find with the development

418
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,480
plan with the town you're going to need

419
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,400
to pave it.

420
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,319
» Uh What was that? I didn't catch that.

421
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,240
» You'll find when you get to the

422
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,360
development plan stage with the town

423
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,120
you're probably going to have to pave

424
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:20,000
the entire project if it gets that far

425
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:22,240
here.

426
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,240
Um

427
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,040
at 143 units

428
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,560
at an average of

429
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,600
500 is

430
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,160
sounds like you'll get this paid off

431
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,120
pretty quick if you get it rented out.

432
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,560
So.

433
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:38,880
» Well, so

434
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,200
right right now at 143 units, 550, so

435
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,120
you're you're

436
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,440
it it's it's actually really close.

437
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:46,000
You're looking at a 6 and 1/2 to 12

438
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,520
million dollar loan. Your payment on

439
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,360
that alone is going to be

440
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,400
55 to 100,000 dollars a month.

441
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,840
» I I just

442
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,200
I'm just looking at the basics of it

443
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,000
here.

444
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,840
» Oh, I I I just I was trying to answer.

445
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,840
My bad.

446
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,840
» That's all I got so far.

447
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,200
» You referenced in your testimony that

448
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,000
there were unique characteristics

449
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,160
um

450
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,360
that caused you to ask for this, but I

451
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,360
it I'm not sure you defined for us the

452
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,080
unique characteristics. So, if I missed

453
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:18,040
that, forgive me, but

454
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,600
but what unique characteristics are

455
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,960
there that we need to consider?

456
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,600
» So so really it's the residential

457
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,520
properties to the north and south. Uh

458
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,800
they they have requirements that they

459
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,920
wanted, uh

460
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,200
not removing trees, but then also in

461
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,360
that to create a

462
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,680
a

463
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:39,000
cash flow that could justify the

464
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,240
equestrian center. Uh we looked at other

465
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,120
options. So, if you wanted to do hogs or

466
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,400
chickens, neighbors were not favorable

467
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,560
to that answer. But then also, there's a

468
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,000
I think a 1,320-ft

469
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,640
offset that you have to be from

470
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,760
residential buildings for that

471
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,240
classification. So, it you're you're

472
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,560
you're limited, but I I

473
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,200
in exploring that, the neighbors

474
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,920
wouldn't want that at all. To me, that's

475
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,160
more industrial than what I'm proposing.

476
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,920
What we propose is what I felt like was

477
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,920
the least impact

478
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:11,560
uh and would help the neighbors out the

479
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,640
most for what we're trying to do. Um

480
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,000
we're limiting as far as access. You

481
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,360
come into the units, you're not going to

482
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,320
see people inside there. We're going to

483
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:21,280
have fencing, completely enclosed, no

484
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,080
outside parking. Uh,

485
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,320
again, the the the idea is the least

486
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,720
amount of impact and I've literally gone

487
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,440
door-to-door trying to get any

488
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,400
recommendations we can and anything I've

489
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:34,200
gotten I have incorporated. So.

490
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,200
» Okay. Thank you.

491
00:19:37,048 --> 00:19:39,068
» [clears throat]

492
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,520
» Um, curious, what is the term of the

493
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,280
loan?

494
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,800
» Uh, it hasn't been determined yet as I

495
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,960
haven't determined how many units I'm

496
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,720
going to be able to put in there.

497
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:03,160
» Mhm. Well, what do you You've obviously

498
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,320
done some pro formas and preliminary

499
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,600
numbers based on what we've been

500
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,960
presented today. So, based on that, what

501
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,880
would the term length be?

502
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,120
» 20 year.

503
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,120
» Okay.

504
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,480
» Um, you mentioned no power to these

505
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,560
buildings and I understand trying to

506
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,080
keep an agricultural feel.

507
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,400
Um,

508
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,240
» So, in recommendation from the fire

509
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:28,600
marshal, uh, just pulling everything out

510
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,440
that cuts down any fire hazard that

511
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,320
would be.

512
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,000
» And no storage of explosive materials.

513
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,760
However, I saw you had campers in there

514
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,360
as a list it

515
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,360
» Okay.

516
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,320
» Uh,

517
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,800
storage you know, or or something you're

518
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800
looking at storing.

519
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,880
Um, are they going to remove that

520
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,080
because most campers have an LP tank in

521
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,120
them in some fashion. Are they going to

522
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,200
remove those LP tanks prior to storage

523
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,440
then or

524
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,560
» Uh, I can have them do that, yes.

525
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,320
» Okay.

526
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:55,680
And then most of those type units are

527
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,680
going to want to winterize.

528
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,240
I'm just

529
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,240
thinking out out

530
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:26,760
» So, correct me if I'm wrong, Jonathan.

531
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,760
By giving the use variance,

532
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,280
you know,

533
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:34,560
this doesn't have to stay equestrian.

534
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:37,760
This could this these storage

535
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:41,000
units could be used for

536
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,000
a lot of different things.

537
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,920
» Uh to the petitioner's credit, he has

538
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:49,240
placed commitments that he's entered

539
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,480
that would restrict

540
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,040
that would limit the use, right? So, to

541
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,520
his credit, the answer to your question

542
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,360
would be yes. Generally speaking, had he

543
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,920
not submitted commitments,

544
00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,960
um and you approved the use of warehouse

545
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,760
general,

546
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,880
that person would have been allowed to

547
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,640
store and operate freely under that use.

548
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,240
The petitioner has restricted and

549
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,880
provided a list of commitments that and

550
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,640
from that component eliminated our

551
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,840
concerns as far as the warehousing

552
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,840
component. Um the other part we had was

553
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,360
a concern about um

554
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,520
less about the warehousing, which was

555
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,720
the was the the issue. Our concern was

556
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,320
the continuation of the equestrian

557
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,360
component. Um

558
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,280
Our our zoning ordinance restricts the

559
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,680
uses from starting,

560
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,520
but we obviously don't stop uses from

561
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,920
continuing, right? And so,

562
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,440
if y'all were to grant this warehousing

563
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,280
operation,

564
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,800
our concern was there was nothing

565
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,840
preventing the shutting down of the

566
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,080
equestrian component.

567
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,080
And then essentially, you would end up

568
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,680
with a parcel full of warehousing,

569
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,000
right? Um I think the petitioner can

570
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,120
speak to that part of it. That he

571
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,040
addressed that concern from our

572
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,240
standpoint. Um

573
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:04,640
» So, we will cease operations if the

574
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,520
equestrian center ceases operations.

575
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,720
We've committed to that.

576
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,160
» I'm not sure if I answered your question

577
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,200
or not, but

578
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,120
» Yeah, I'm just wondering are the

579
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,240
commitment list that prohibited

580
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,240
activities, is that the

581
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,560
the list that you're pulling from? Is

582
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,720
there a separate commitments list that I

583
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,520
» This one? Item number 10?

584
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,960
» Yeah, that's the prohibited activities.

585
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,040
Okay.

586
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,440
» Um

587
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,480
obviously some of these are

588
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,000
um

589
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,840
you know, like outdoor storage is not

590
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:31,400
going to be permitted anyway, right? So

591
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,080
um he committed to it, but along with

592
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,640
the warehousing component, your

593
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,920
warehousing is typically internal,

594
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,880
right? And there's a separate use for

595
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,880
out outdoor storage, right? So

596
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,400
um some of these are

597
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,560
obvious things that would not have

598
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,120
occurred anyway.

599
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,760
» Mhm.

600
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:50,480
» Um

601
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,680
some of them, for example,

602
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,160
explosive material storage, if, you

603
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,640
know, there's warehousing that has

604
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,160
explosive material inside of it, he is

605
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,680
agreeing not to warehouse that. So

606
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,440
that's something that he's doing above

607
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,800
and beyond what would be

608
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,000
allowed.

609
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,280
» And these are commitments that Phil

610
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,760
comfortable with upholding?

611
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,360
» Yeah. Yeah.

612
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,640
Um I'll speak for myself. I don't want

613
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,160
to speak for Mike Hill, but uh

614
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,240
I'm comfortable

615
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,200
» There's a legal activity, you're not

616
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,391
going to be the one called, but

617
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:17,520
» You know,

618
00:24:17,391 --> 00:24:19,520
» [laughter]

619
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,160
» You know, sleeping in vehicles,

620
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,720
trailers, and sleeping in the storage

621
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,200
unit, that's something that regardless

622
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,720
of this petitioner, we're not going to

623
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:30,800
allow to occur anyway, right? So

624
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,800
um you can't live in a storage unit.

625
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,720
» Yeah, please.

626
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,520
» So, do you mind if I have a couple

627
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,080
questions about your commitments and be

628
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,360
maybe the specificity of them? So

629
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,320
if you anticipate that the

630
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:52,680
uh term of your loan will be 20 years,

631
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,560
is the commitment then a 20-year term

632
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,080
because the loan could be renewed and

633
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,920
term extended?

634
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,280
So, is your commitment 20 years or is it

635
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,000
unknown?

636
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,760
» It is far as

637
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,800
» You said that the warehouse operation

638
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,960
would cease when the loan is paid off.

639
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,120
But, the term of the loan could be

640
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,400
extended.

641
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:10,360
» Okay.

642
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,160
» Just trying to figure out what that

643
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,720
means. Does that mean 20 years or does

644
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,760
it mean 20 years?

645
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,440
» Commit to 20 I'll commit to a 20 year.

646
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:15,880
» Okay.

647
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,760
» Yeah.

648
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,000
» And the same kind of question, you your

649
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,000
commitment that you've proposed

650
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,680
uh places a limitation that the project

651
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,320
will not exceed the original conception

652
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,600
plan footprint of 12 farm style storage

653
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,760
buildings.

654
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:35,280
Would you be willing to commit to um

655
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,760
a square footage as well because um

656
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,520
obviously you could make buildings

657
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,320
bigger and I don't think that's your

658
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,160
intent, but

659
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,920
» So, no. So, so, so I

660
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,000
I can uh I don't have the square footage

661
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,600
number in my head, but what what's on

662
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,760
that paper it would only get smaller

663
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,480
from that and those are 50 foot.

664
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,880
Uh we I can get the area for that and

665
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,160
figure that out.

666
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,320
» It's I think it's 94,500

667
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,960
ft square feet is what was in the staff

668
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,680
report.

669
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,320
» It's 94,000 It started off as a 100,000,

670
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,560
um but we have gone through revisions

671
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,120
and it's been reduced to 94.5.

672
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,120
» So, in

673
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,800
in four, commitment number four, would

674
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:14,680
you be willing to add to the 12

675
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:16,480
buildings not to exceed 94,500 sq ft?

676
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,720
» Is that what was on

677
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,640
» That's That's the most recent site plan

678
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,880
I got from from Derek.

679
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,800
Was 94.5.

680
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,800
» 94,000?

681
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,320
» I got everything. Okay, then yes.

682
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,880
» Okay.

683
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,120
That would help us enforce it if we ever

684
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,720
needed to.

685
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:33,080
» Essentially that that picture it's only

686
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,040
going to get smaller and they

687
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,908
they got the new one cuz we already lost

688
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,800
a building, so.

689
00:26:36,908 --> 00:26:38,440
» [clears throat]

690
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,880
» Okay, thank you.

691
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,880
» All right.

692
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,080
» And I have a question for our council.

693
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,120
It

694
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:50,320
We're able to grant a variance for a

695
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:52,080
specific use and specific owner. It

696
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,480
doesn't run with the land.

697
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,680
» Right. It's use variance. It's just your

698
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,040
your It's not a use as permitted under

699
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,200
the current zoning and there So, you

700
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,080
you're The question is what you're being

701
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,760
asked to do is say you can you can you

702
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,840
can have warehousing there. That's the

703
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,040
question.

704
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,280
And yes, it just it's it's just this

705
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,360
this owner.

706
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,320
» Okay.

707
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:15,000
And so, we can term limit it and Okay.

708
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,160
» You can impose any conditions that you

709
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,240
would like on a grant of a use variance.

710
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,040
And as you've heard me talk about

711
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,560
before, use variances are

712
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,440
rare.

713
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,960
And but it's a use issue, not a

714
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,600
development standards like a development

715
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,680
standards variances. It's all use. So,

716
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,360
the commitments are important,

717
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,360
obviously, for that reason.

718
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,360
» I also just want to add just to get

719
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,680
ahead of any problems in the future.

720
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:50,720
Often times, approvals, if y'all elect

721
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:53,560
to approve this, often times, we put a

722
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,720
statement substantial compliant with the

723
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,360
submitted site plan or the conceptual

724
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,760
site plan. I'm concerned that you have

725
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:04,680
submitted a site plan and although your

726
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:06,840
proposal would be smaller than

727
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,160
is it substantially compliant to what

728
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,080
they see tonight? And so, I just want to

729
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,840
point that out because if we get

730
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,400
approval and y'all are seeing a site

731
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,680
plan tonight,

732
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,840
my concern is you're going to move

733
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,360
forward to plan commission with

734
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,520
something that's not shown tonight.

735
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:24,040
And if that's an issue,

736
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,440
maybe address it tonight prior to

737
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,120
approval.

738
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,880
Because it has been an issue in the past

739
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:31,920
where we've granted approvals based off

740
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,200
site plans that were submitted

741
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,440
and then projects land at plan

742
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,360
commission

743
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,080
and it's not the same site plan that was

744
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:39,560
presented.

745
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,720
» Mhm.

746
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:45,000
» So, I'll commit to the same site plan.

747
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:48,480
Any changes will be in in congruence

748
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,480
with what recommendations they give.

749
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,360
» Oftentimes it's Mike Dell who gets to

750
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,520
decide if it is substantially compliant.

751
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,960
So, if Mike's okay with that, I am okay

752
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,960
with that.

753
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,000
» Is this considered a site plan?

754
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,600
» What I am referring to is

755
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,400
» What we have in

756
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:10,440
» This. This is going to be my bigger

757
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,680
concern. What you see on the screen is

758
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,160
these

759
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,160
I'm sorry, I did not bring my glasses

760
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,560
and I didn't realize it was going to be

761
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,800
this small, but however many buildings

762
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,120
are there

763
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,360
coupled with the equestrian component,

764
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,960
that's what we're going to see.

765
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,200
Right? And that's what y'all are seeing

766
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,960
tonight.

767
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,160
And my concern is if we get to planning

768
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,960
commission and there's

769
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,960
one less building or the buildings are

770
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,440
in different locations,

771
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,120
um is that substantially compliant? So,

772
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,840
I just want to make sure we address that

773
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,840
if that's something we're considering.

774
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,520
» So, so one of the buildings already, the

775
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,440
the larger one, I believe Ron uh told me

776
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,640
that we're going to have to shrink that

777
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,920
one down.

778
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:52,480
Um the the the footprint though, nothing

779
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,360
with nothing's going to change. Uh

780
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,360
and from that area right there, it will

781
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,360
only get smaller.

782
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,640
» And to the question I think Mr. Fedora

783
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,080
would

784
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,680
uh ask next, um

785
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,320
would we be able to get a commitment

786
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,160
that it also looks

787
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,520
um a lot like

788
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,600
» Will will will you let me do that? I

789
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,480
think they already mentioned something

790
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,040
about stone. Uh

791
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,880
» It will

792
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,240
» I

793
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,040
That's

794
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,720
» I will commit to that. Yes, yes.

795
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,640
» Yeah, there's two there's [laughter] two

796
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,560
There's two different renderings

797
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,851
included and this one is

798
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,400
much different than the other rendering.

799
00:30:24,851 --> 00:30:27,160
» [laughter]

800
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,120
» There's a a little bit more of an

801
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,680
isometric and then obviously you have

802
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,200
the high-res rendering and um obviously

803
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,800
a much sharper look.

804
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,641
» $5,700 difference.

805
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,680
» I know how much they cost, yes.

806
00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:39,600
» [laughter]

807
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,320
» I will say this one, correct? Andy, this

808
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,760
is the one that I got this afternoon,

809
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,600
right?

810
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,200
» Th- Th- This one right here? Yes. Th-

811
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,920
This is what we're going for. This is

812
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,840
the appeal on the street.

813
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,840
This is the goal.

814
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,800
» And so you would be willing to

815
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,520
if we were to grant a use variance,

816
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,520
you'd be willing to grant that the the

817
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,600
visual look would be

818
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,080
» Yes. Uh

819
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,760
the one building though, like I said,

820
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,040
we've already lost that in the design of

821
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,040
the pond

822
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,440
location. So that's

823
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,800
where I'm saying it'll be less. It won't

824
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,560
be more. Uh

825
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,080
and and I didn't have time to change

826
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,240
that, so

827
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,360
» I know. I I understand that, but I think

828
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,880
» Building right behind it is going to

829
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,600
look the same. I'm going to have the the

830
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,040
same barn doors on it. Still the same

831
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,600
I say everything the same, just maybe

832
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,600
less.

833
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,200
» But the same visual style if that

834
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,040
Okay.

835
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,640
» Just just like that is is what we're

836
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,640
going for.

837
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,160
» Okay.

838
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,960
Do you have any other questions?

839
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,320
Josh, you mentioned needing paving. Is

840
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,600
that something that would go through

841
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,480
planning commission? That that might be

842
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,200
something that will come up.

843
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,920
» Might be wrong. My wouldn't would any

844
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,840
commercial building like this need to be

845
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:04,640
a paved driveway?

846
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,680
» Paved entrance off the right of way?

847
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,720
Would that be a requirement? I I'm not

848
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,560
sure. That would be a

849
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,040
» Of I just I always thought of it when

850
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,280
commercial we were asked to pave it.

851
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:16,480
» Yeah, I'd rely on the department public

852
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,720
works to determine that.

853
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,680
» I'm pretty sure it's going to have to be

854
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,760
paved.

855
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,640
» It's a standard. Um I think you can I'm

856
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,640
going to use the word waiver.

857
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,120
Um you can defer the pavement for up to

858
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,560
1 year, I believe, to allow for gravel.

859
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,680
I think, but they don't have to grant

860
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,440
that.

861
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,160
Um I think the requirement at planning

862
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,160
commission is that it has to be paved,

863
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,760
and then they can possibly, depending on

864
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,080
the conversations that y'all would have,

865
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,000
y'all might be able to get a waiver for

866
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,440
up to a year to allow it to be gravel, I

867
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,440
think.

868
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,760
All that would have to be hashed out

869
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,720
prior to approval of the development

870
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,720
plan, though. So.

871
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,800
» Do you guys have any other questions?

872
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,040
No.

873
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,800
Okay, I'm going to open it up to

874
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,800
um

875
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,720
the public. Um if you wouldn't mind

876
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:15,320
sitting down and probably call you back

877
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,160
up later, but um I'm going to call out

878
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,320
uh

879
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,720
individually um as you guys have written

880
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,320
your name here. If you could just um try

881
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,240
not to repeat what other people have

882
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,640
said and

883
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,560
and uh

884
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,680
and um

885
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,760
and I'll begin.

886
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,200
Um so, first person I have is Beth

887
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,600
Hayes. Hey.

888
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,480
Haynes.

889
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,120
If you could state your name and

890
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,120
address.

891
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:50,200
» Um I'm Beth Haynes. I live at 11725

892
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,920
East 100 North.

893
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:56,280
Um I am not here tonight to question

894
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:59,280
Good Venture Farms not being able to

895
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,400
conduct their stable and arena business

896
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:05,320
on this particular piece of property

897
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:07,840
since it is already zoned agricultural.

898
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:11,200
Um they have a wonderful repre-

899
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:14,240
reputation and they provide a wonderful

900
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:16,800
wonderful service to its clients.

901
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:21,000
And they would not impact our area and

902
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:24,120
would not affect our property values.

903
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,800
I am here tonight

904
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:29,720
as the petitioner is seeking a variance

905
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,720
to allow commercial warehouse operation

906
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:35,200
in an ag zone.

907
00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:38,320
Thus, it appears as a separate entity

908
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:41,240
from the stable and arena operation.

909
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,520
As your staff report states, commercial

910
00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:45,679
warehousing is not allowed in an ag

911
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:49,000
zone.

912
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:51,679
Since no zoning hardship exists, this

913
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,480
sets a precedence for future variance

914
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:58,080
requests for business entities which do

915
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:01,320
not show a hardship due to zoning.

916
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:05,320
Again, as the staff report states, the

917
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:08,320
hardship cannot be due to a self-created

918
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,720
need for a variance.

919
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,760
I'm a retired educator and I worked in

920
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,080
an elementary school

921
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:18,080
that had classrooms of severe and

922
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:21,040
profound students, mild and mentally

923
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,640
handicapped students, and emotionally

924
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,800
disturbed students.

925
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:30,320
I understand the need for this type of

926
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,920
program. I have no qualms about it.

927
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,000
It would be wonderful on that piece of

928
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,920
property property

929
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,920
but without warehouses.

930
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:44,000
I know there are other therapeutic

931
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,480
riding centers in the area, four

932
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,800
including

933
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,600
um

934
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:53,360
Good Ventures that I know of.

935
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,600
And I know Mr. Newton seems very

936
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,320
passionate about this program, but

937
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,200
I really think that this particular

938
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,160
piece of property

939
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,240
is not the one for it.

940
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,560
» 1 minute.

941
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,560
» Um

942
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,400
I think the warehouses may affect my

943
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,760
value as I live around the corner from

944
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,760
it and I will be able to see the

945
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,120
warehouses from my property.

946
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,240
Um

947
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,480
and I have some questions that arose

948
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:23,160
when I read the original

949
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,040
um

950
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,760
um proposal.

951
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,920
What if What happens if Good Ventures

952
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,040
decides the epic economically cannot

953
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,000
keep paying the rent for this second

954
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,120
facility?

955
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,840
Um

956
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,720
And Mr. Newton said he was going to have

957
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,960
a 20-year mortgage.

958
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:48,800
So, what if they back out before he's

959
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,040
finished paying it off?

960
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:54,080
Um

961
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,760
And my other question with that was what

962
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,760
happens to the warehouses since these

963
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,520
are two independent businesses?

964
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,480
» Fine.

965
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,600
» Okay.

966
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,440
» Um you finish your How many questions

967
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,640
more do you have?

968
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,600
» I just have a few more.

969
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,680
» Okay. Let me Okay.

970
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,080
» Will a stable caretaker be on the

971
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,840
property in the evening?

972
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,520
What happens if the horses get loose and

973
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,000
meander into the woods at the back of

974
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:24,000
the property and into our crops, which

975
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,000
we 50/50 farm with one of the other

976
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,280
petitioners here?

977
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,440
Uh

978
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:33,920
Why are the warehouse up hours of

979
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:36,160
operations so late, especially having

980
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,960
neighbors on either side?

981
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:42,840
Um my other thing was the rental of the

982
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,760
units. If somebody had an RV and

983
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,800
and

984
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,440
they were in a unit with no power or

985
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,480
lights and they need to recharge a

986
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,920
battery.

987
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,720
They're kind of up a hill and they're

988
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:57,320
working in a cave, a dark cave.

989
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:59,800
And again, as Mr. Fedor mentioned, some

990
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:03,240
of these units are not

991
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:06,720
large enough to get farm equipment into.

992
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:09,440
And will enough acreage be set aside

993
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:11,920
for pasture to meet the ordinance of

994
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,760
number of acres per horse?

995
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,840
And lastly,

996
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,840
um

997
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,000
Hamilton County legal drain runs through

998
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:24,560
that property and has a 75-ft easement

999
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,840
on either side of it for a total of 150

1000
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:29,480
ft. Will this affect the number of

1001
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,400
warehouses and their play placement that

1002
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,080
the petitioner wants to build on the

1003
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:37,320
property?

1004
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,480
Um and then it is my hope that the board

1005
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,120
will adhere to the new comprehensive

1006
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:45,680
plan

1007
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:48,560
which time, money, and public input were

1008
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:51,560
put into to protect our agricultural

1009
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:54,120
land, neighborhoods, and homes.

1010
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,560
Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

1011
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,760
» Thank you.

1012
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,600
I'll just quickly state that anything

1013
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,960
that's decided tonight does not set

1014
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:05,120
precedent. We um address cases

1015
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,000
individually, so there is no precedent.

1016
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,520
That is not a thing in BZA. So, every

1017
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,200
case is evaluated on a case-by-case

1018
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,800
basis.

1019
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,960
Thank you.

1020
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,440
Um

1021
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,280
Pamela, can you please step up and say

1022
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,280
your name and address?

1023
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,160
» My name is Pamela Shugart, and my

1024
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:35,640
husband and I Gary and Gary reside at

1025
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:38,640
650 North 1200 East, and we're just two

1026
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:41,800
drives past the this property.

1027
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:45,240
And I am in opposition with the mini

1028
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,520
buildings and the storage unit business

1029
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:48,840
that's

1030
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,240
proposed in this residential area that

1031
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,400
is considered Ag. And that's all I'd

1032
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:55,960
like to say. Thank you.

1033
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960
» Thank you.

1034
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:01,257
Um Andy Newton Oh,

1035
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,360
not you.

1036
00:40:01,257 --> 00:40:04,080
» [laughter]

1037
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,320
» Lauren,

1038
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,920
could you come up and state your name

1039
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,920
and address?

1040
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:16,080
» Hi. I'm Lauren McGee. I live at 9692

1041
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,960
Autumn Way, Zionsville, Indiana.

1042
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,880
So, I want to thank you for the

1043
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,440
opportunity to say a few words. I'm a

1044
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,280
parent, writer, and instructor at Good

1045
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,600
Venture Farms, and I'm also a Zionsville

1046
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,600
resident. So, I think I could stand up

1047
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,200
here for ever give you a dissertation of

1048
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,680
the benefits of horseback riding, and

1049
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,800
what Good Venture Farms would give to

1050
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,840
our community, but that's not what we're

1051
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,480
debating tonight. We all agree that a

1052
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,440
horse barn adding to a historical

1053
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,040
equestrian community is a good thing.

1054
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,040
The proposed storage barn add a

1055
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,360
different element, yes, to this

1056
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:47,080
equestrian facility, to a point, but

1057
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,840
most agricultural facilities have some

1058
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,560
sort of storage barns on their property

1059
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,040
and facility. The design of these

1060
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,800
storage barns mirror the barns, and in

1061
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,960
no way resemble a typical storage

1062
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,320
warehouse, like we've seen built behind

1063
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,920
neighborhoods in Zionsville, such as

1064
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,120
Stonegate.

1065
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,120
When my family and I moved to Zionsville

1066
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,800
in 2019, we were drawn to the rural

1067
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,040
landscape, the small-town feel, and the

1068
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,800
great school system. Beyond my personal

1069
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,200
investment in Good Venture Farms, I

1070
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,240
would be ecstatic to see rural

1071
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:17,480
Zionsville used for agriculture, a need

1072
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:20,160
for another barn in our community, and

1073
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,880
also used for storage, beautiful barns

1074
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,920
complimentary to the agricultural feel

1075
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,920
of Zionsville, where residents can store

1076
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,760
RVs, boats, whatever they need to store,

1077
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,880
and not go to other communities. This

1078
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,560
would also prevent another build of

1079
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,160
neighborhoods and gas stations, which we

1080
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,840
continuously see being built in

1081
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,400
Zionsville. So, I strongly support this

1082
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,400
variance being

1083
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,000
um

1084
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,280
passed tonight, and would be happy to

1085
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,120
take other questions.

1086
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,520
Thank you.

1087
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,520
» Thank you.

1088
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,800
Uh Brittany.

1089
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:04,720
» Hi, I'm Brittany Stuff. I live at 1255

1090
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:08,000
South 900 North.

1091
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:09,840
No, I don't. 1255 I'm sorry.

1092
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:13,240
1255

1093
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,600
South 900 East, Zionsville. It's where

1094
00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:16,000
the Fabers used to live. You guys know

1095
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,680
where it is. Anyway,

1096
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,640
um

1097
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,760
Shoot, that's Lauren's dog. Okay.

1098
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,520
Anyway,

1099
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,360
uh

1100
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,160
when my son, who's now 9, 2 years ago

1101
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,320
asked to start horseback riding lessons,

1102
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,440
something that I did when I was growing

1103
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:33,160
up in Hamilton County,

1104
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,360
um one of the things that drew us to the

1105
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,920
barn community was the sense that it was

1106
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:40,400
part of a wider rural community and that

1107
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,880
is something that drew us to move from

1108
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,840
the Eagle Creek area to move here to

1109
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,160
Zionsville eventually.

1110
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,720
Um to the point that three of us now

1111
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:52,960
ride and we are as a family part of the

1112
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:55,680
broader barn community. Horse people

1113
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,040
like barn people and farm people and

1114
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,960
rural Boone County in general are good

1115
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,520
neighbors or at least that's that's what

1116
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:05,960
I found. Even when we disagree, we're

1117
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:08,400
pretty respectful. We generally live and

1118
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:11,000
let live. They're supportive, selfless,

1119
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,920
generous, caring to the point of almost

1120
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,840
absurdity and they're when you need

1121
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,160
them.

1122
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,400
Um what I like about uh

1123
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,680
what the board has said about this

1124
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,880
variance is is that it is not a slippery

1125
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,120
slope, that that's not a thing. Um we

1126
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,120
can have ice cream for dinner tonight

1127
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080
and that doesn't mean that we're ever

1128
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,680
going to have ice cream for dinner

1129
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,040
again. This is just a thing that happens

1130
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,760
once.

1131
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,360
Um but what I like about the proposal to

1132
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,560
this one variance is that it serves a

1133
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,840
broader swath of the community. I like

1134
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,680
that um

1135
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:43,120
what the proposal is at pains to propose

1136
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,280
is that it's they're pretty barns. Uh we

1137
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:48,280
just built a barn and it it was such a

1138
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,640
pain, but that is a good thing because

1139
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,600
it meant that things were pretty

1140
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,280
and that we were doing things slowly and

1141
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:58,320
consciously and honoring what we want

1142
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,120
our community to be. Um I, like a lot of

1143
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,640
you, drive through Carmel a lot and I

1144
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,320
really like Carmel. It's a nice place,

1145
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,880
but I don't want Zionsville to look like

1146
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:08,320
Carmel. I want Zionsville to be Carmel.

1147
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,560
Um and I would much rather see storage

1148
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,000
sheds than anything else, especially if

1149
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,160
they're pretty. And they look like my

1150
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,840
barn or they look like a lovely barn. I

1151
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,160
like Science Hill's rural character.

1152
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,720
I'm also glad we're meeting tonight. I'm

1153
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,240
glad we're talking about this, and I'm

1154
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:22,640
glad we're taking it slowly,

1155
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:24,640
thoughtfully, and strategically. That's

1156
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,280
how development should be.

1157
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,160
Um, I like the idea of our barn being

1158
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,640
more convenient to the community. I like

1159
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,720
the idea of it being more accessible to

1160
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,280
people.

1161
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:36,000
Um, and I like the idea of this serving

1162
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,680
the community as a multi-use space. I

1163
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,520
think there's a long history of rural

1164
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:44,440
people offering our city and suburban

1165
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,280
neighbors a place to park their stuff.

1166
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,480
Um, but I also like the idea of it not

1167
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:51,080
being visible from the road. I like it

1168
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,960
being behind a pretty barn facade. Um,

1169
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,480
I'm hopeful that we can all kind of come

1170
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,000
find a way forward to make everybody

1171
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,200
happy, preserve the character and charm

1172
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,080
of our community, and I hope we continue

1173
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,560
to do that. Thank you.

1174
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,560
» Thank you.

1175
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,880
John.

1176
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,440
Haswinkel? Did I say that right?

1177
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,440
» Very close.

1178
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,360
Yeah, my name's John Haswinkel. My wife,

1179
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:26,840
Chris, and I own the property 11615 East

1180
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:28,440
100 North. And our property is, uh,

1181
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,720
north and west of that. Probably have

1182
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:33,920
the most frontage line to the,

1183
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:35,720
uh, subject property. Uh, we are in We

1184
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,640
oppose the,

1185
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:41,360
uh, commercial buildings for this. Um,

1186
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,880
it's clearly not ag. I would venture to

1187
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,120
say that any farmer that wanted to store

1188
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,560
equipment is going to build his own

1189
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:50,080
building. As Josh had said earlier, this

1190
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,600
is not going to accommodate a combine or

1191
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:56,640
big spraying equipment, uh, tillage

1192
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:59,080
equipment. So, I think the, um,

1193
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,560
little bit disingenuous to to build this

1194
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,560
office at ag-related. What I I don't

1195
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,480
think many farmers would start store

1196
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:09,080
equipment there at all. So, I think this

1197
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,880
is clearly using a commercial property

1198
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,240
to pay for the

1199
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,240
um horse facility. Have no problem with

1200
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,840
the horse facility, but it seems

1201
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,800
um

1202
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,360
wrong for me

1203
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,960
to um

1204
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,640
allow this commercial property to pay

1205
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,280
for it. I just think it's uh

1206
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,640
it's not what the intended use is, and

1207
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,000
uh that's all I have to say. Thank you.

1208
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,000
» Thank [clears throat] you.

1209
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:36,920
Kim?

1210
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,920
So sorry, just Thompson.

1211
00:46:37,537 --> 00:46:39,480
» [laughter]

1212
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,880
» I don't have the best penmanship either,

1213
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,880
but

1214
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:50,520
» My name is Thompson. I live at 11722

1215
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:53,520
East 100 North with my husband Mitch.

1216
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:56,320
We live across the street um

1217
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:59,000
from the Haswinkles and the Haynes.

1218
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,320
And this we are I'm we are both opposed

1219
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,360
to this development very much, not

1220
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:06,240
because of the horses at all.

1221
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:08,920
We have horses, we love horses,

1222
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:10,920
um had horses all my life, and I know

1223
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,560
how hard financially it would be to

1224
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,440
sustain on the value of this property

1225
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,800
without the

1226
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,320
storage warehouses.

1227
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,600
Um I was always told if you ever want to

1228
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,520
become a millionaire in the horse

1229
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,240
business, you better start out as a

1230
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,680
multi-millionaire.

1231
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:29,640
But um but it was that aside, I think

1232
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,480
the warehouses would just be very much

1233
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,800
of a distraction um to our little rural

1234
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,160
community.

1235
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,640
Um

1236
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:40,360
Like everyone else here has said, it

1237
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:43,200
doesn't fit in with the zoning.

1238
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,960
It I know that you take it case-by-case,

1239
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:48,560
but it still opens up

1240
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,040
warehouses in our neighborhood.

1241
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:53,360
And I don't understand why they would

1242
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:55,880
need to be open until 11:00 at night. Um

1243
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,640
if you're storing boats and campers, we

1244
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,520
have a camper. I know that you're going

1245
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,000
to need a generator probably to get it

1246
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,760
going. So, how many people are going to

1247
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,320
be running generators that night getting

1248
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,440
ready for their camping trip the next

1249
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,240
morning.

1250
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,440
Um I don't believe that any farmers

1251
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:12,400
would store their equipment in these

1252
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,480
facilities. Um it just it just doesn't

1253
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,760
seem like the right fit for our our

1254
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:19,000
area. So, we very much oppose the

1255
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:21,560
warehouse piece. Thank you.

1256
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,560
» Thank you.

1257
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,040
Um Andy, would you like to come back up

1258
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,040
and

1259
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,480
I'm sure there's maybe things comments

1260
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,360
that you want to make, but I have a

1261
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,640
couple questions.

1262
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,200
Is there any comments you want to make

1263
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,520
after?

1264
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:42,360
» Uh just that

1265
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:45,840
uh for the agricultural piece, uh

1266
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:48,680
I've tied myself to the equestrian side.

1267
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,280
Uh if it ceases, I cease.

1268
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,760
Uh

1269
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,320
if the when the 20-year loan's done,

1270
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,960
I'm turning it over.

1271
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,160
Uh

1272
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,400
This is going to give someone an

1273
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:01,320
opportunity that otherwise would not be

1274
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,720
able to quit her jobs and do something

1275
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,840
that uh has been her dream.

1276
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:07,720
Um And like I said, I'm just fortunate

1277
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:12,080
to be a vessel to hopefully make that

1278
00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:14,040
happen, but uh as far as the Do I answer

1279
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,160
the questions directly that you posed?

1280
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,840
» Say whatever you want.

1281
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,160
» I I didn't have I didn't have more

1282
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,520
» Need to answer any questions. I just

1283
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,880
wanted to give you a chance to to to say

1284
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,160
anything that you wanted to.

1285
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,680
» And and that's the biggest thing is that

1286
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,280
you know, uh

1287
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,520
Google met it they won't tie themselves

1288
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,320
to what they're trying to do. I'm

1289
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,240
committing to

1290
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,320
financial resources and everything to to

1291
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:40,880
make this happen and uh again, it is

1292
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,880
equestrian so in nature. Um

1293
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,760
» Um I'd like to add I'm Leah. I'm the

1294
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,480
owner of Good Adventure.

1295
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,280
» Hello. Thank you.

1296
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,080
» You could just state your name and

1297
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,640
address. Yep.

1298
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,320
» My name is Leah Bonaventure. I live at

1299
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:52,880
2665

1300
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,800
uh East 6 No, South 650 East. Britney,

1301
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:57,560
you did that to me. Thank you.

1302
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,600
Um I own Good Venture Farm. Um all my

1303
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,320
So, my riders came out today.

1304
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,440
Um something I just like to mention when

1305
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,920
you guys talk about farmers, like I I

1306
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:08,360
totally understand what's a farmer, so

1307
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,520
um my boyfriend over there, he has

1308
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,000
tractors, trailers, everything you can

1309
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,440
think of. Um

1310
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,280
he would store something like that

1311
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,680
somewhere here. Um

1312
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,520
just because you're a farmer doesn't

1313
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,600
mean you own a giant combine, doesn't

1314
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,920
mean you own, you know, certain

1315
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:25,360
material. Um people see themselves of a

1316
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,680
farmer having a

1317
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,480
What is it? A zero-turn, honey, that you

1318
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,920
have two or three of them sitting in the

1319
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,400
driveway that need to go in a storage

1320
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,880
barn. Yes.

1321
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,160
Um if he could have somewhere to store

1322
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,360
those, that would be great. If he had

1323
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,440
somewhere we could store them close

1324
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,120
where he could drop them off and check

1325
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,120
on them, that'd be fabulous. Um

1326
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,600
I think that the they're beautiful

1327
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,400
looking. I think it adds to the

1328
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,840
aesthetic. Um I don't think it does

1329
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,240
draws anything away to what we do.

1330
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,960
Um

1331
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:53,840
I think Andy's done a wonderful job, and

1332
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,120
it's small, it's family run, my family,

1333
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,640
barn family, Andy's family. It's a

1334
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,080
beautiful, beautiful accent to the uh

1335
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,480
community.

1336
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,000
That's my two pieces.

1337
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,680
Oh, the horse is getting out. Horses get

1338
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,160
out all the time.

1339
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:11,360
Um so I worry about the ordinance about

1340
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:13,720
having horses on land. So, my horses um

1341
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,360
go out on a rotation. They don't live

1342
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:16,840
outside. They won't have horses living

1343
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,640
We I won't have horses living outside.

1344
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,800
They live in the stalls. They go out to

1345
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,680
graze for about 4 to 6 hours a day. Um

1346
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,640
yeah, so I will have fencing. We have

1347
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,760
fencing in place. Um I will also have a

1348
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,160
hot wire going around the fencing to

1349
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,320
keep them in place. I can't account for

1350
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,440
Mother Nature. Um I wish I can control

1351
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,800
her sometimes. I can't. Um if it knocks

1352
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,080
down a fence, yeah, that horse is going

1353
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,280
to get out. Um my horses are all

1354
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,800
friendly, so you could go up to them and

1355
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,000
say, "Hey, whoa."

1356
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:46,160
and just walk right up to them. They

1357
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,480
will be wearing halters. Um I wouldn't I

1358
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,040
wouldn't be concerned about a horse

1359
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,840
getting out unless Mother Nature came

1360
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,120
through or something of some drastic

1361
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,720
measure happened. But my horses live

1362
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:58,080
inside, they go out in a rotation 4

1363
00:51:55,720 --> 00:52:00,480
hours. There's somebody on the property

1364
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:02,560
during hours of operation.

1365
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,240
After hours of operation, no one's

1366
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,880
living on the property. It's going to be

1367
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,400
secured circuit so we can watch the

1368
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,560
horses. So you don't have to worry

1369
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,800
about, you know, anybody that you don't

1370
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:14,080
know pulling in and out at certain

1371
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:17,080
hours. My hours are limited. I do have a

1372
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,960
life outside of the barn. So

1373
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,480
surprising you to all you guys, I do

1374
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,600
have a life.

1375
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,480
Um

1376
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,600
So it won't be

1377
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,160
all hours at night. I won't ride horses

1378
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,520
out in an arena. I won't have

1379
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,640
spotlights. I'm not going to have a

1380
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,040
rodeo. It's not going to be a

1381
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,360
pick-a-part. It's going to be a place

1382
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,560
where kids, adults can come and they can

1383
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,040
have their passion shared with me and my

1384
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,640
other barn family.

1385
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,000
What else about the barn getting out?

1386
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,640
Anything?

1387
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,640
The questions

1388
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,080
Oh, yeah.

1389
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,880
» We can't take testimony from the

1390
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,280
audience, please.

1391
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,400
» I'm sorry. I was just hearing the the

1392
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,320
questions. I apologize.

1393
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,440
» A couple questions for you if you're if

1394
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,920
you've if you're if you're done.

1395
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,640
» I'm done.

1396
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,280
» Okay.

1397
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,600
I did have a question. I think I was

1398
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,760
confused on the relationship between

1399
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,880
Good Venture and you. So is technically

1400
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,840
Good Venture is your tenant and there's

1401
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,680
a lease in place?

1402
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:10,280
A land lease or there will be. So what

1403
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,920
term length of a lease? That's a pretty

1404
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,760
big partnership to not have any kind of

1405
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,040
lease in place currently. I would think

1406
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,360
that you guys would have negotiated the

1407
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:20,560
terms and what that looks like.

1408
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:23,120
» As far as I mean, the intention is that

1409
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,000
she takes this over. So

1410
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,520
I mean, I'd be willing to do a 20-year

1411
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,120
term lease if that appeases the board.

1412
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,000
» All of this got passed, we had agreed to

1413
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,760
sit down and make that agreement.

1414
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,080
The intention is for me to eventually

1415
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,760
take over

1416
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,200
the whole property. That's going to be

1417
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,280
where I put my roots in the ground and

1418
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:39,640
live.

1419
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:40,680
Um

1420
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,880
» When you say take over the whole

1421
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,760
property, you mean buy the whole

1422
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,920
property or like lease the whole

1423
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,960
property?

1424
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,320
» Take over the loan.

1425
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,520
» Take over the loan. Okay.

1426
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,840
» Ownership. She would love to put her

1427
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:53,760
house out there one day.

1428
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,960
And And that be her property.

1429
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,360
» Okay.

1430
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,040
» And right, you don't always have to be a

1431
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,840
multi-millionaire to get into the horse

1432
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,920
business. It's It's the community that

1433
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,800
you build. It's the people that support

1434
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,640
you.

1435
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,600
Um I built a wonderful barn family and

1436
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,360
the support's there. So, no you don't

1437
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,680
have to be a multi-millionaire to be a

1438
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,640
horse person. I'm not looking to do

1439
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,200
that. Um but what I am looking to do is

1440
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,000
have an opportunity for people to come

1441
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,440
share my passion and um

1442
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,920
if they want to store their trailer that

1443
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,840
they keep at home, I got a spot for

1444
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,000
them. So.

1445
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,360
» I am a little confused as to why the

1446
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,360
hours of operation is so late. I thought

1447
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,560
that

1448
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,200
before

1449
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:33,400
um 11:00 is late.

1450
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,160
Um for a family. I'm just curious.

1451
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,920
» People getting back with their camper,

1452
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,240
uh giving them an opportunity to get get

1453
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,640
in there and get stored from a trip or

1454
00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:41,760
something. Uh I'd be willing to reduce

1455
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,320
that if that appeases you.

1456
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,120
» I'm just curious. I I wouldn't

1457
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,400
want to live by the

1458
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,600
» Thing with the hours early, if someone

1459
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,000
has a fishing boat, just coming in early

1460
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,400
to

1461
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,360
That's the idea.

1462
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,960
» I'll elaborate on that a little bit.

1463
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,320
With 11:00, it's dark even in the middle

1464
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,520
of the summer.

1465
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,360
Here you have these long rows of

1466
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,120
buildings with no electrical back there,

1467
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,560
no safety lights, no security

1468
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,960
» So there's lights out front.

1469
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,200
So you you'll you'll be able to see the

1470
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,360
lights.

1471
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,080
» Somewhere there was no electrical in the

1472
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,520
buildings.

1473
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,640
» Inside.

1474
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,560
» Okay.

1475
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,680
» So So the the the the idea is you wanted

1476
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:17,560
to reduce a a plug-in for people because

1477
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,640
that that's an extra fire hazard. That

1478
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:23,120
» In the rendering, it shows lights

1479
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,120
outside of each barn door.

1480
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:25,560
In the rendering.

1481
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,320
» Okay.

1482
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,000
» I'm just asking because you said this

1483
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,040
rendering was going to look like this.

1484
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,400
» Of the buildings. All All All that's uh

1485
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,560
exterior.

1486
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,800
And for the Through the planning

1487
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,080
commission, they they may have

1488
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,680
requirements that we may have to add

1489
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,560
lights in there. I I haven't got that

1490
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,240
far yet. Uh

1491
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,720
but like I said, right now the lights on

1492
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:44,840
the exterior and we're trying to face

1493
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:45,640
everything inside. Everything's

1494
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,640
enclosed.

1495
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,360
» Okay.

1496
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,800
» So, when Josh asked about getting a

1497
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,360
trailer back there at 11:00 at night

1498
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,640
when it's pitch black, there will be

1499
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,680
lights at every door so they can come

1500
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,080
» Lights. There's lights inside the

1501
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,560
facility. Yes, you'll be able to see

1502
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,600
what you

1503
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,680
» Stay on 24 hours?

1504
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,400
» So, we're we're probably going to put

1505
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,720
them on like a a motion sensor so that

1506
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,560
they turn off and then when everyone's

1507
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:06,800
gone, uh they can turn off. Again,

1508
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,920
planning commission will probably have

1509
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:11,560
some requirements and I'll have to abide

1510
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,840
by that, but the intent is

1511
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,840
uh motion activated.

1512
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,320
» Well, I forgive me, but I think

1513
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,880
any requirements about your operations

1514
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,760
actually have to be done here. I don't

1515
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:25,360
think the planning commission can do a

1516
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,600
lot about that. They can talk about

1517
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,760
» Well, I thought requirements for lights.

1518
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,960
Uh they don't control

1519
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,400
» They will have comments on that. You've

1520
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,000
got two planning commission members

1521
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:37,880
sitting at on BZA right now, so

1522
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:39,760
» The uh and I have a concern and perhaps

1523
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,720
staff can help me with it that if it was

1524
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,560
reaching planning commission stage when

1525
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:46,320
it comes to lighting, even if your

1526
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:48,080
intent right now or the

1527
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,600
the the modest lighting scheme you

1528
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:53,560
showed directly here on the buildings,

1529
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:55,160
um does staff think that

1530
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,480
this would hit on the planning

1531
00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:00,440
commission side and all of a sudden

1532
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:02,760
we're talking about 30-ft structures in

1533
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,800
the air to provide

1534
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:07,280
uh lighting like

1535
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,520
other uses have in their parking lots.

1536
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,960
» The the proposal would have to comply

1537
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,560
with the town's, you know, light

1538
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:14,440
standards and that would be confirmed

1539
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,360
during the development plan review.

1540
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,800
» Does that answer?

1541
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,800
» Uh

1542
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,960
Yes.

1543
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:24,520
Uh it it answers that that would have to

1544
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:27,000
comply. Could we [clears throat] write a

1545
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,480
restriction that said

1546
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,000
this is the lighting the only lighting

1547
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,440
scheme we would approve?

1548
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,560
» Yes, I believe so. You can have you can

1549
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,240
establish a standard that's that's more

1550
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,160
restrictive.

1551
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,560
» More restrictive.

1552
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,960
» Yeah, not less.

1553
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,960
» Okay.

1554
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:45,120
» Want me to commit to

1555
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:48,600
» I I'm kind of doing a little discovery.

1556
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,600
I mean, I these are always

1557
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:53,360
» Um

1558
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:55,280
» These are just difficult to do because

1559
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,360
if we're at all going to consider this,

1560
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,160
the operations

1561
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,240
of the property and the agreement get

1562
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:04,320
set here. Um

1563
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:07,720
that we've seen that done badly.

1564
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,720
» I I also want to add to that, Jim, cuz I

1565
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,480
you're going through your process. I

1566
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,200
want you to keep going, but

1567
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,600
getting back to the lease, that's an

1568
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:17,040
important factor to me because I do love

1569
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,720
the equestrian piece of this, and I

1570
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,800
I

1571
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,280
um have a kid in occupational therapy,

1572
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:27,440
and I know how good horses can be for

1573
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:28,960
that, and it's a wonderful thing. Um but

1574
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,520
you know, making sure that transfer

1575
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,880
happens, like

1576
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,360
you know, at that 20-year, there's a

1577
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,280
commitment for a 20-year, but there's no

1578
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:39,680
lease in place.

1579
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:41,600
That is to be negotiated once they

1580
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:44,840
get through planning commission

1581
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:45,880
or this gets approved. So, that for me

1582
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,280
if

1583
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,040
is a

1584
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,520
is one that I would want a commitment

1585
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,520
from.

1586
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,600
» I need the water a little bit. This

1587
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:57,520
follows with

1588
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,760
uh Andy.

1589
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,440
The commitments are going to follow with

1590
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,440
the landowner with the property owner

1591
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,000
when it shifts ownership.

1592
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,360
» Can have it limited.

1593
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,160
» Starts from scratch again, doesn't it?

1594
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,760
» Right, that's true. Assuming they have

1595
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,880
that agreement executed that he does

1596
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:13,320
actually

1597
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:14,680
gift her it once the loan is paid off.

1598
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,000
» Uh

1599
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,200
Can we are we

1600
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,080
» Yeah.

1601
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,240
» I I've got I I

1602
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,680
» Please.

1603
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,760
» So, there was a concern or a question

1604
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,560
brought up about full-time help, and

1605
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,920
that led to another concern. I've been

1606
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,960
to a lot of horse barns, and there's

1607
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:29,000
always in somewhere.

1608
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,360
Uh where that where there's a

1609
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,360
full-time barn help living in the on the

1610
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,360
premises is going to be an occurrence.

1611
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:38,320
There is going to be a big full-time

1612
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,320
living on the property.

1613
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,760
I Because I ask cuz they have their

1614
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,040
plusses and minuses. Uh, the plus is

1615
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,400
there's somebody there all the time. The

1616
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,520
minus is

1617
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,120
there's somebody there all the time.

1618
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,520
Um

1619
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:52,200
» So, for for the um

1620
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,520
for the recording was that a no?

1621
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:53,840
» Yes.

1622
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,760
» Okay. All right.

1623
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,200
» Correct. There There There's no No one's

1624
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,920
going to be living in There's no

1625
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,800
apartments or living stable or

1626
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,760
» No.

1627
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,480
» Could you speak into the microphone if

1628
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,920
you would?

1629
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,960
» I was going to say I am there all the

1630
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,920
time, but I'm not going to live there.

1631
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,200
» Um And what were the hours of operations

1632
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,400
again? I'm sorry.

1633
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,800
» Uh, I believe it was [snorts] Let's see

1634
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,240
here. What time

1635
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,880
5:00 to 11:00

1636
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,720
weekend.

1637
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,240
» I think it was 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 if my

1638
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,800
memory serves.

1639
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,360
» All week or is that

1640
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,560
» 5:00 to 10:00 Monday to Friday, 5:00 to

1641
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,560
11:00 Saturday and Sunday.

1642
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:33,200
» And And that's for the storage. Um the

1643
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,280
my facility I I've got

1644
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,920
» Could you speak into the microphone?

1645
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,640
» That's for the storage. My facility I'm

1646
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:40,320
not We won't be running that late. I

1647
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:44,080
mean, my last lesson Yeah, 7:00 a.m. to

1648
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,760
9:00 p.m. Um Monday through Friday.

1649
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:48,800
Uh, Saturday and Sunday it's the same

1650
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:50,640
Oh, so I should say Sunday to Sunday. Um

1651
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,920
I don't stay there after 9:00. Only time

1652
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,800
I'm going to come back is if I see

1653
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,400
something on the cameras that one of my

1654
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:58,000
ponies have gotten out and are wandering

1655
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,000
the hallways.

1656
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,440
Just to see.

1657
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,400
» Um and then

1658
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,000
I'm sorry. One more uh, there was a

1659
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,240
drainage easement brought up in your

1660
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,720
findings of facts as well as they

1661
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,520
remonstrator brought it up. Can you

1662
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,920
elaborate a little bit on this drainage

1663
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,120
easement that runs through the property?

1664
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,080
» Uh, can I have my engineer speak to

1665
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,520
that?

1666
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,520
» Absolutely.

1667
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,240
» Absolutely. Yeah.

1668
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,720
» Could you come up and state his name and

1669
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,720
address?

1670
01:01:21,797 --> 01:01:24,440
» [clears throat]

1671
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:27,080
» Air Gordon with Spacegoat. We're located

1672
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:29,000
at 3850 Property Way South Drive in

1673
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,560
Indianapolis, Indiana.

1674
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,520
Um the

1675
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,640
legal drain that runs through our

1676
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:35,040
property

1677
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:37,680
is right at the tail end of the Jacob

1678
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,920
Shoemaker drain. It is our property and

1679
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:42,880
then the parcel just north.

1680
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,680
And then everything drains south into

1681
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,320
Hamilton County. So, it's a fun

1682
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,000
situation with us being right on the

1683
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:50,160
county line.

1684
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,080
Uh getting to coordinate with both Boone

1685
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,840
County and Hamilton County. We met with

1686
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,440
them last week.

1687
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,720
And that'll be a

1688
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,040
continuous conversation until we get

1689
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,200
county approval

1690
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,320
from both parties.

1691
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,520
Along with Zionsville approving the

1692
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:06,640
drainage. So, all three will

1693
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:10,600
be able to review.

1694
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:14,120
Um standard relocation for legal drains

1695
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:15,880
is uh 30-ft drainage easement. We will

1696
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,520
pick it up where it hits our property

1697
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:21,960
line there at the north.

1698
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:24,680
And reroute around our operation

1699
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:26,200
to the south property line where

1700
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:29,440
uh through our development it'll be a

1701
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:32,240
30-ft drainage easement. And then north

1702
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:37,520
and south of that it will be the

1703
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:37,520
uh 75-ft on each side being a total 150.

1704
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,240
» You've you've made communications with

1705
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,120
Hamilton County and Boone County

1706
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,320
Surveyor's offices.

1707
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,840
» Yes, we've been in conversation with

1708
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,600
them.

1709
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,520
Yep.

1710
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,200
» Okay.

1711
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,120
» That was them

1712
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,920
uh

1713
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:58,200
emails over the past couple months and

1714
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,200
sat down with them last week.

1715
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,080
» And then I got one more question for

1716
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,880
you, Andy.

1717
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,480
Um

1718
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,960
This is ag. This is farmland. This I

1719
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,160
mean, everything up through here it's

1720
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:12,600
been ag

1721
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,600
my whole life. Um

1722
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,080
And we're you're saying you're wanting

1723
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,160
to store agricultural equipment here. If

1724
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,640
we limited this to just agricultural

1725
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:22,280
equipment,

1726
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:25,600
so we could stay within the agricultural

1727
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:28,400
mindset. No boats, no trailers,

1728
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:30,600
or no flatbed trailers, no

1729
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:33,080
RVs, no

1730
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,120
anything but agricultural equipment.

1731
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,600
Would this

1732
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:40,320
business model work?

1733
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:42,240
» So, right now I don't think so. Uh one

1734
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:45,160
one of the things I am doing though is

1735
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,920
offering a discount for ag equipment.

1736
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,480
And then I'm also offering a period

1737
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,240
where I will not offer it to the general

1738
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:52,840
public as well.

1739
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:55,160
Uh should we fill up everything at in

1740
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:57,520
that time, then I mean, I'll make a

1741
01:03:55,160 --> 01:04:00,720
commitment that we don't need the other

1742
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:03,520
side. Uh I'm willing to state that. Uh

1743
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:06,000
but I don't know. What I'm scared of is

1744
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:08,320
limiting that income and getting a loan

1745
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,000
and not being able to repay it. And it's

1746
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:12,440
kind of the the safeguard to make all

1747
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:13,920
this happen.

1748
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,640
» I could say that that would get it to my

1749
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:18,320
mind that, hey, we Okay.

1750
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:20,440
I get my head around

1751
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,080
this being an agricultural use if it was

1752
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,520
strictly used for agricultural

1753
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:27,280
equipment. But I'm afraid what I'm I'm

1754
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:29,560
looking at here is RV storage and boat

1755
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,840
storage. It's a tremendous need in this

1756
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,200
community.

1757
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,960
Um

1758
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,920
it happens on a lot of farms around here

1759
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,360
already. And the

1760
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,640
quite frankly, no one's turned them in.

1761
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,960
When they get turned in, they'll have to

1762
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,080
address it.

1763
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,080
But I guess tell me how this isn't going

1764
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,400
to be boat storage and RV storage.

1765
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,040
Because that's to me that's what it

1766
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:50,760
looks like to me.

1767
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:54,160
» Uh so again, just just the offering $100

1768
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:57,400
a month cheaper to ag residents. Um I'm

1769
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:59,240
trying to entice uh and give incentives

1770
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,720
to the agricultural community.

1771
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:04,440
» I I I appreciate that. I'm just

1772
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,440
you know.

1773
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,240
» So so where

1774
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,160
where the large building is at up here

1775
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,400
on the uh

1776
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,200
screen,

1777
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,760
if I made a commitment to shrink that

1778
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,760
down, which I think the fire marshal

1779
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,560
said we're going to have to, if I added

1780
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,800
another building in there, put in large

1781
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,880
doors, offered it free, made that

1782
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,680
commitment,

1783
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,320
cuz real really the biggest thing to

1784
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,640
farmers I think holding them up is the

1785
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,840
cost.

1786
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:32,600
Uh I think I think your husband

1787
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:34,120
mentioned that to me. Uh I'd be willing

1788
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,600
to construct another building in there

1789
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:39,040
and uh offer it free to agricultural

1790
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,200
combines, anything large of that nature,

1791
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,440
and

1792
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,680
uh

1793
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,640
» I I don't think your business model's

1794
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,360
going to work too well if you're

1795
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,600
offering free storage. So

1796
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,005
Um I think your business

1797
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,840
» The margin to do it, Josh, let him.

1798
01:05:51,005 --> 01:05:55,000
» [laughter]

1799
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:56,920
» But I guess my thing is

1800
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:59,160
Like I said, I can get my head

1801
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,200
» It's not a good business idea.

1802
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:00,480
» I I

1803
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,640
okay.

1804
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,160
» I'm I'm being honest with you.

1805
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,400
Honestly, it'd be better to go across

1806
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,000
the street and build a whole bunch of

1807
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,280
storage units in the industrial area

1808
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,840
that's going to be zoned for that, but

1809
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,880
it's not about that. And that that's my

1810
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,640
whole intent for this whole thing is

1811
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,520
it's not about the money. It's about me

1812
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:17,280
getting an opportunity to help someone.

1813
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,880
I'm a builder. I'm literally going to be

1814
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:21,040
building these with my own two hands.

1815
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,880
I've hired a guy to help me already.

1816
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:26,000
We've got Amish on board to help out as

1817
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:28,040
well. This is going to be a true

1818
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,280
uh and again, I'm going to quit my job.

1819
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,400
This is this is what I I want to do. I

1820
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,560
would like to help people, and when

1821
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,360
she's at the point where she's able to

1822
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,680
take it over, I'd like to go do

1823
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:37,320
something else

1824
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:39,960
positive as well.

1825
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,480
So again, I've heard from many people

1826
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,200
this is not a good business decision. It

1827
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,520
is not, but it's more than a business

1828
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,880
decision.

1829
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:46,880
So

1830
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:53,200
» Josh hit all your points, Jim.

1831
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:55,360
» He did.

1832
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,680
Yeah, I think he got you got me covered.

1833
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,480
I kept crossing things off every time I

1834
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,240
asked a question.

1835
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,720
» Know. We'll see. Great minds think

1836
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,880
alike.

1837
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:01,880
» Yeah.

1838
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:08,840
» For me to even wrap my head around

1839
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:11,840
this, for me the

1840
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:13,800
transfer from a 20-year loan to make

1841
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:16,560
sure it stays like good venture that

1842
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:18,240
that the use drops off

1843
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,840
is

1844
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:23,600
something that I feel like needs to be

1845
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:26,000
in there if this is even something that

1846
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,120
um

1847
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,080
can even move forward from my

1848
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:31,640
standpoint.

1849
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,640
Um

1850
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:39,560
that would be a contingency.

1851
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:42,920
» I'm unclear on what happens to the

1852
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:45,560
storage facilities once the loan is paid

1853
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:49,000
off for the arena and you no longer

1854
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:52,120
require them as a source of income.

1855
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:53,640
What exactly is going to happen

1856
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,960
to you said you're going to use those

1857
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,880
storage facilities for for your barn

1858
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:57,840
equipment?

1859
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,760
» Mhm.

1860
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:01,680
» And is that going to fill all of them?

1861
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,600
Are they What's going to happen to

1862
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,440
buildings that you no longer need that

1863
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,360
you are no longer using?

1864
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,360
» So

1865
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,040
the Amish will come and take them down.

1866
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,240
» They'll remove them.

1867
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,840
» So so the post frame construction is

1868
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:16,279
relatively easy to take down and reuse

1869
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:18,080
and probably be donated, honestly.

1870
01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:20,640
» I'd like to keep a few up for extra

1871
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:22,279
storage for, you know, if I have

1872
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:24,080
any horses that I need to move out, need

1873
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:26,200
to move in another area.

1874
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,040
Um so it would be used for another area

1875
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,120
of

1876
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,839
horse

1877
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:34,400
barns if I could, but I mean it's like

1878
01:08:30,839 --> 01:08:34,400
he said they would be taken down.

1879
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,560
» Are Are these concrete foundation

1880
01:08:36,440 --> 01:08:38,720
buildings then or are they going to be

1881
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,200
gravel

1882
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,200
So are we talking gravel floored in

1883
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:41,960
these buildings or are they

1884
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,680
» Uh concrete.

1885
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:45,160
» Concrete, okay. So when the buildings

1886
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,120
come down, the concrete will be busted

1887
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,120
up, removed and

1888
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,640
» If they don't need the building, that's

1889
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,400
like I said, it wouldn't be mine at that

1890
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:53,440
time.

1891
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:55,680
» I'm not keeping the concrete.

1892
01:08:53,440 --> 01:08:57,440
» And just out of curiosity, so there's

1893
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,799
going to be lighting on the outside of

1894
01:08:57,440 --> 01:08:59,880
these storage units.

1895
01:08:58,799 --> 01:09:02,560
» That's the intent right now.

1896
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:04,759
» Electrical on the interior of the units

1897
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,680
for anyone to use for personal use. How

1898
01:09:04,759 --> 01:09:07,839
do the doors open? Are they going to be

1899
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,120
» They're manual.

1900
01:09:07,839 --> 01:09:11,080
» Okay.

1901
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,600
With just a

1902
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,720
a lock?

1903
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,680
» So so so you have a padlock and put on

1904
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:17,359
it and take the padlock off, pull the

1905
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:20,520
latch open and you go down and you you

1906
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:20,520
lift it up and roll it up.

1907
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:31,160
» I'm thinking of self-storage units

1908
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:34,680
um

1909
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:37,480
Madonna I've been in and around

1910
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:38,920
They usually have more site security

1911
01:09:37,480 --> 01:09:42,120
than I see here.

1912
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:43,880
Uh more substantial fencing that isn't

1913
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:46,440
the gentle kind to keep horses in but

1914
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:49,480
it's built to keep people out.

1915
01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:52,120
Um many of them do elect to have someone

1916
01:09:49,480 --> 01:09:54,400
staying on site at least larger

1917
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:56,480
uh properties and I don't know where

1918
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,520
that cut off is.

1919
01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:59,040
But

1920
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,880
when you talk about site security and

1921
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:03,600
the security of people's

1922
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:05,640
uh contents and the um

1923
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:08,560
any comfort of the neighbors that it's

1924
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:10,360
you know not a an attractive place to

1925
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,080
go thief from. How how do you manage

1926
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:13,200
that?

1927
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:15,000
» So so right now we're going to have uh

1928
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:17,840
security with cameras and then we're

1929
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,920
also going to have uh a gate for access

1930
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,200
kind of where they're showing the gate

1931
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,520
right now with sliding that building

1932
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:24,320
back. Uh

1933
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,480
there'll be an access gate to get in and

1934
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:27,440
out of the facility.

1935
01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:28,440
» Okay. So it's not showing on here it'd

1936
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:30,400
be a another gate

1937
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:32,320
» There's a gate shown on there but it it

1938
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,920
it's it's going to be probably further

1939
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:33,800
back.

1940
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,160
» Yeah, I I got you.

1941
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,160
» So

1942
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:40,120
» So

1943
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:41,760
people taking lessons won't have access

1944
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:45,480
to the storage facility.

1945
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:47,400
» There'll be a separate gated through.

1946
01:10:45,480 --> 01:10:48,920
They So she's going to have access.

1947
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:51,880
She's going to keep equipment and some

1948
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:53,240
few things in there what not but not not

1949
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,560
her.

1950
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,560
Yes.

1951
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,440
» I'm not sure if we have any more

1952
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,720
questions. I know we need to have our

1953
01:11:05,440 --> 01:11:08,520
» Yeah, I just

1954
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:12,120
I think just if we could revisit like

1955
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:13,880
the factors, you know, um and head back

1956
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,320
to

1957
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,120
um

1958
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:19,120
you know, fair market value, hard

1959
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,640
necessary hardship.

1960
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:24,360
And

1961
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,360
and focus on those and

1962
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,440
Yes, you guys can sit down. You guys

1963
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:28,760
have any other questions?

1964
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:31,680
» No.

1965
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:34,320
» Okay. Sorry. Thank you.

1966
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,320
» It's uh

1967
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,160
They're

1968
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:40,400
very

1969
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:42,400
sincere people, I think, trying to do

1970
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:45,080
good things here, and it it always makes

1971
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:48,200
it difficult because it comes back to

1972
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:50,680
the unnecessary hardship question.

1973
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:53,280
Uh if my memory serves, which is

1974
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:56,680
imperfect, this I think is the third use

1975
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:58,120
I we've seen um at BCA here proposed for

1976
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,440
this property.

1977
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,120
And if if it was a world that I had to

1978
01:12:00,440 --> 01:12:03,960
pick out of one of those three, and I

1979
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,840
was a neighbor, I would probably want to

1980
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,640
pick this one. Um

1981
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,680
but that isn't really how we make our

1982
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,240
decisions.

1983
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,800
Um

1984
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:15,360
it

1985
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:17,200
Somebody will have to walk me through

1986
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,600
the unnecessary hardship. I've been

1987
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,440
trying to wrap my brain around

1988
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,480
uh and it was mentioned by several

1989
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:23,360
people

1990
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:25,120
um

1991
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:27,480
who testified that there are plenty of

1992
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:29,160
ag operations that

1993
01:12:27,480 --> 01:12:30,400
you know, have some storage, but that's

1994
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:33,200
different than

1995
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:36,240
having a, you know, 94,500

1996
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:38,880
sq ft of dedicated storage facility

1997
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:42,160
in the next 20 years. And I think

1998
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:43,920
unnecessary hardship's tough, so

1999
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:45,960
how do we make it

2000
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:48,480
fit under ag is the question, and I know

2001
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,600
Mr. Fedor is making a run at that.

2002
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:51,800
Um

2003
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:54,040
with contemplation of of what limits of

2004
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,960
what could be stored on the property.

2005
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:57,480
Uh but that right now is where my

2006
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:59,560
hang-up is.

2007
01:12:57,480 --> 01:13:01,520
» Yeah, I'll I'll elaborate on what Jim

2008
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,720
just said. A lot of farmers have

2009
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,320
buildings, but they don't rent the

2010
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,720
storage out. They're using it for their

2011
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:09,400
own equipment and

2012
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:10,640
normal normally if you go in them

2013
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,600
they're crammed to the gills with their

2014
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:14,040
own equipment. Um but they don't rent

2015
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,000
the storage out.

2016
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:18,680
That that's a different that's a

2017
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:20,320
different beast right there.

2018
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,880
So

2019
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,160
Uh

2020
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,320
I'm I'm right there though with you as

2021
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,640
well. I'm trying to get

2022
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,480
around

2023
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,440
uh three and five are the two that I

2024
01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:31,120
have trouble with. Um that I don't see

2025
01:13:29,440 --> 01:13:33,560
anything particularly unique about this

2026
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:35,560
prop- property that requires this nor

2027
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:39,800
can I get around the

2028
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:42,080
the unnecessary hardship. This is a um

2029
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:44,840
It's a It's a farm field that's there's

2030
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:46,480
not very much unique about it. A lot of

2031
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,880
farm fields have drainage easements that

2032
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:49,880
run through them.

2033
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,000
Um

2034
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,640
So I

2035
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:56,000
I I think it's a great project.

2036
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:58,360
I would love to see this in an area

2037
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:00,760
that's that's more suited zoning for it.

2038
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:02,920
It's It's a great layout.

2039
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:05,400
Um but I don't know if this is the place

2040
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,400
for it.

2041
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:13,720
» Question to staff. If this was

2042
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:15,600
just equestrian and it was barn storage

2043
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,680
for

2044
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,600
you know

2045
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,600
trunks and things like that for their

2046
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:25,320
horses.

2047
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,320
Um is that an approved use under this?

2048
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:29,680
» Yes. Um

2049
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,600
I'm going to go back to a previous

2050
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:33,760
concern you'll have about

2051
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:35,960
uh if the warehousing operation were to

2052
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,360
cease, what would the buildings be used

2053
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,480
for, right?

2054
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:42,160
Um the buildings we are concerned with

2055
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:44,000
the use of the buildings, right? Um

2056
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:45,840
these buildings in this case in this

2057
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,360
period of time are warehousing, which is

2058
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:50,160
causing the issue.

2059
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:52,320
Once the buildings are constructed,

2060
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:54,400
unless y'all guys place some parameters

2061
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,120
on the use of these buildings or some

2062
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,800
condition saying you have to remove them

2063
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,040
at a certain time.

2064
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,160
Um

2065
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:03,920
our planning office, we don't have

2066
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:06,360
what I have historically seen in other

2067
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:09,440
offices, which is a change of use.

2068
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:11,520
Right? So, once the building is erected

2069
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:14,360
and y'all approve this project or y'all

2070
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:16,440
if y'all were to approve it, um 15 years

2071
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:18,720
from now if there's no conditions on it,

2072
01:15:16,440 --> 01:15:22,160
let's say the warehousing was to stop,

2073
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:24,720
as long as a use that's permitted in ag

2074
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:25,960
was to move into that facility. I'm just

2075
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,720
going to make something up because a

2076
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:30,600
commercial greenhouse

2077
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:33,400
is a permitted use, right? So, let's say

2078
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:35,600
the the the warehousing operation ceased

2079
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:36,640
in 10 years for whatever reason.

2080
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:39,200
Um

2081
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,680
there are numerous uses permitted by

2082
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:43,080
right

2083
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:45,920
in the ag zoning district that could

2084
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:47,440
relocate into these empty buildings.

2085
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,080
Now, there could be other issues from a

2086
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:51,400
fire standpoint, from an engineering

2087
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:54,160
standpoint, some internal improvements

2088
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,520
that would have to be made. Um

2089
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:56,760
but from a zoning standpoint, we look at

2090
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,720
the use.

2091
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:01,120
And if the buildings were to be vacant

2092
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:02,440
and a new person wanted to move in,

2093
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:04,040
we would look at what are they wanting

2094
01:16:02,440 --> 01:16:06,360
to do, right? Is it a greenhouse

2095
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:07,680
operation? That's a permitted use.

2096
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,600
Is it a

2097
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,920
you know, another warehousing facility?

2098
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,520
That's not. And so, they would have to

2099
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:14,920
come back to you guys depending on the

2100
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,800
use to get approval. In this case,

2101
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,200
they're saying they're going to remove

2102
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,480
the buildings. So, that would take care

2103
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,160
of that, right?

2104
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:20,320
Um

2105
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,240
but yeah, they could build these

2106
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,680
buildings.

2107
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,080
They don't if we if they were only

2108
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,520
proposing

2109
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:28,960
stables,

2110
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,400
they wouldn't be here tonight.

2111
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,800
They could build stables within the

2112
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:34,960
parameters of the development standards

2113
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:35,960
and they'd need no approvals from the

2114
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,880
board.

2115
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:37,960
They would just go to the planning

2116
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,120
commission get a development plan

2117
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:41,040
approval

2118
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:44,080
and um

2119
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,080
and then start construction.

2120
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:49,960
Did that answer your question?

2121
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,960
» Yes, it did. Thank you.

2122
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,560
» Well, I I can't say I like my position,

2123
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,480
but I

2124
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:10,040
uh I'll put numbers on it. I struggle

2125
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:12,240
with the uh

2126
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:14,560
number four, which is the unnecessary

2127
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:17,320
hardship, and I struggle with the uh

2128
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:19,160
number three, which is the

2129
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:22,160
condition peculiar to the property

2130
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:24,520
involved requires the variance.

2131
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:24,520
Um

2132
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:28,880
And that That's where I am. I don't know

2133
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,080
if anybody else has more they want to

2134
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:32,480
say or

2135
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:34,560
» That's hard for me, too. I

2136
01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:37,160
I mean, I know a lot of people who own

2137
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:39,880
horses who pay

2138
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:42,160
crazy for barn storage and to store

2139
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:45,600
their horses. I mean, I

2140
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:46,640
you it's wild. So, I don't I makes it

2141
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:49,320
makes

2142
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:51,400
the fact that a boat or a RV would pay

2143
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:53,600
more than them, I just

2144
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:56,080
um that's hard for me to wrap my head

2145
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:57,520
around. Um

2146
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,800
that that wouldn't be a profitable

2147
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:01,680
model.

2148
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:03,400
Um since the true intent is to to

2149
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,520
support the equestrian center, which I

2150
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,000
love.

2151
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,280
Um

2152
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,280
so

2153
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,280
yeah, that's hard.

2154
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,480
» Well, I I

2155
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:20,720
ready to make a motion if you're ready

2156
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:24,520
to hear me, Madam Chair.

2157
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:27,120
I move that docket number 2026-15-V

2158
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:28,720
UV variance of use to permit a warehouse

2159
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:31,560
building facility in a rural general

2160
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:34,600
agricultural AZ zoning district for

2161
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:37,120
property at 526 North 1200 East, Science

2162
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:38,920
Hill, be denied as presented and

2163
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:41,480
described.

2164
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,480
» Second.

2165
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,000
» Jim Hurst.

2166
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,120
» Aye.

2167
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,000
» Josh Fedor.

2168
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:50,240
» Aye.

2169
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,240
» Amanda Miller.

2170
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,240
» Aye.

2171
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,320
» Katie Glenn.

2172
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:55,080
» Aye.

2173
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,760
» Motion passes.

2174
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:59,280
Petition is denied.

2175
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,280
» Thank you.

2176
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:05,840
Okay.

2177
01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:20,600
» It's a good It's a good project.

2178
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,559
That's Yeah.

2179
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,600
It's a good It's a good project.

2180
01:19:22,559 --> 01:19:25,160
» [snorts]

2181
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,160
» It's really a good

2182
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:32,960
» Okay, we'll move on to case 206

2183
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:34,240
2026 16 UV.

2184
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,880
Um

2185
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:40,640
another use variance.

2186
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,640
Um I will let staff uh present.

2187
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,640
» It's me.

2188
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,760
Okay.

2189
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:50,760
Um

2190
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,360
All right. I'm hopeful my internet is

2191
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:57,920
working now. I'm running this off of my

2192
01:19:55,360 --> 01:20:01,040
cell phone. So, if it's a little slow,

2193
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:04,760
forgive me. But, uh here we go.

2194
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:07,120
Uh use variance pursuant to again 194082

2195
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:09,480
table two to allow for a vet animal

2196
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,640
hospital or clinic in the rural single

2197
01:20:09,480 --> 01:20:14,280
and two-family residential zoning

2198
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:15,480
district. Um there is history to this

2199
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:17,080
site.

2200
01:20:15,480 --> 01:20:18,800
Um I'm sure all of y'all are familiar

2201
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:19,840
with the site and the history that's

2202
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:22,680
come through

2203
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:24,680
BZA in the past. Um here's a brief

2204
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:27,320
summary of it. Um on page one of the

2205
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:30,680
staff report.

2206
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:32,440
The request, you'll see the subject site

2207
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:37,160
is currently

2208
01:20:32,440 --> 01:20:38,680
um 17 uh 17.4 acres to be exact.

2209
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:41,240
If this

2210
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:46,880
request is approved,

2211
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:51,120
there will be a 5-acre section that is

2212
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:53,000
subdivided from the overall 17.4 acres

2213
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:54,240
um as shown in this exhibit on the

2214
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:56,160
screen.

2215
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:58,320
Um and the 5 acres is actually the

2216
01:20:56,160 --> 01:21:01,960
subject site of the use variance

2217
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:04,720
request. The clinic and the operations

2218
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:08,800
associated with that clinic would be on

2219
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:12,400
the 5-acre tract, not on the entire

2220
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:15,480
17-acre parcel. The subdivision

2221
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:16,600
would be allowed by right. Our zoning

2222
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:17,200
ordinance

2223
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,440
uh

2224
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:22,160
has a one-time a clause that's a

2225
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:25,360
one-time lot split exemption.

2226
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:27,160
Um and the petitioner, the owner, would

2227
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:29,240
take advantage of that one-time lot

2228
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:31,920
split exemption in the zoning ordinance

2229
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:33,960
to create the 5-acre tract of land. This

2230
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:35,520
would not need plan commission approval.

2231
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,520
So, you wouldn't see this subdivision at

2232
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:40,560
plan commission.

2233
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:42,000
Um the petitioner submitted a plan of

2234
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:44,720
operation

2235
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:46,400
uh as well as some conceptual

2236
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,960
uh as close as possible, but still

2237
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:50,280
conceptual

2238
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:51,480
uh both site plan and elevations of the

2239
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,760
facility.

2240
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:57,880
Um and again, here you'll see key to

2241
01:21:53,760 --> 01:22:01,840
note that the 5 acres is going to be

2242
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:04,000
outside of the MRO, so it would not be

2243
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:06,880
subject the development would not be

2244
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:10,600
subject to the MRO standards, okay?

2245
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:13,240
Um and then as far as the analysis as to

2246
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:15,520
is this the proper use for the 5 acres,

2247
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:19,000
we looked at the comprehensive plan,

2248
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:20,160
uh both the old one and now the new one.

2249
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,480
Um

2250
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:24,120
getting to town to getting to the staff

2251
01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:26,880
analysis, I'm going to skip to the

2252
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:30,840
questions. Um and I'm going to address

2253
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:32,400
the ones uh, in here where we disagree.

2254
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:34,240
Uh, the approval will not be injurious

2255
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,160
to public health and safety.

2256
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:38,160
Um, again, we disagree.

2257
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:40,520
We cannot determine, given the

2258
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:43,640
information that we had at the time,

2259
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:44,920
uh, the impact. Um, as of this writing,

2260
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,520
we know the request is going to use

2261
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:50,600
estimated, uh, structure of 6 to 8,000

2262
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:51,840
square feet. Um, but we're trying to

2263
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,280
give the petitioner an opportunity to

2264
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:56,200
present the pro- proposal to you,

2265
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:58,000
um, without having to go through the

2266
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:59,280
entire plan set of a plan commission

2267
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,360
submittal. And so, with limited

2268
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:03,880
information, that's why we landed on

2269
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:05,040
that conclusion. Um, the use or value of

2270
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,520
the area adjacent to the property

2271
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,000
included in the variance will not be

2272
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,720
affected in a substantially adverse

2273
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,120
manner. Again, we cannot determine the

2274
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,800
impact of the request given the lack of

2275
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:14,440
information provided,

2276
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:16,720
uh, as it relates to the future

2277
01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:18,320
five-acre improvements, five-acre site

2278
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,360
improvements,

2279
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:22,720
which is again why we disagreed. Um, the

2280
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,160
need for the variance arises from a

2281
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:26,480
condition peculiar to the property

2282
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:28,600
involved. Uh, the five-acre site can be

2283
01:23:26,480 --> 01:23:30,360
developed for single-family residence.

2284
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:34,000
Uh, it's already zoned R2. You can build

2285
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:35,920
a home at this at this location. Um, the

2286
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:37,360
newly adopted comp plan identifies

2287
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,760
single-family,

2288
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:42,760
uh, in this area. And so, again, we

2289
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:44,520
disagreed as it related to that.

2290
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:46,560
Uh, strict application of the zoning

2291
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:49,240
ordinance, uh, will will or will not

2292
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:50,960
result in unusual and unnecessary

2293
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:53,720
hardship.

2294
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:56,680
We disagreed for the reasons listed, um,

2295
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:58,280
here on page six. And then finally, the

2296
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,240
comprehensive plan. Again, I previously

2297
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,920
mentioned the new comp plan that was

2298
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,680
adopted in June,

2299
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,680
um,

2300
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:06,160
identifies this five-acre site for rural

2301
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:06,800
and equestrian,

2302
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,000
uh,

2303
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:10,520
resident- a rural and estate

2304
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:14,280
residential. And, uh, the current zoning

2305
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:16,000
of R2 already allows for that to occur.

2306
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:19,600
Um, and so, we don't believe this is

2307
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:20,960
aligned with the comp plan. Um,

2308
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,400
happy to answer any questions you have

2309
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,760
on the staff report or any of the

2310
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,760
exhibits that you have attached to the

2311
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,240
agenda.

2312
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:29,080
If there's no questions, I'll I'll turn

2313
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:29,080
it back over to you guys.

2314
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:33,920
I do want to mention there were numerous

2315
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:35,000
letters of support and I believe some

2316
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,480
information as it relates to

2317
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,840
remonstrance that have been attached to

2318
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:40,080
the agenda.

2319
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:42,000
Some I believe were as recently as

2320
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:43,000
today. So, I wanted to point those out

2321
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,280
for you.

2322
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:49,800
» And Jonathan, it's

2323
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:52,080
not ever I think that I've seen a BZA

2324
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:54,880
petition come to us

2325
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:56,320
where you could make a determination

2326
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:59,200
because the information hadn't been

2327
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:01,120
provided to you. Did you encourage the

2328
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,040
petitioner to continue and provide you

2329
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,400
the information how

2330
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:05,200
» They they have

2331
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:08,000
They have provided

2332
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:09,400
information as it relates to

2333
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,160
elevations, right? Conceptual

2334
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,440
elevations, conceptual site plans, which

2335
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:16,200
you can see.

2336
01:25:12,440 --> 01:25:16,200
Let me pull them up here.

2337
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,960
And on their commitments, right? And

2338
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:28,040
this is something that uh

2339
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:28,040
you can see too. Let me pull those up.

2340
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:33,880
For example, one of the things would be

2341
01:25:30,480 --> 01:25:38,120
a known concern by the neighbors, right?

2342
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:40,680
Of the dogs barking. And so

2343
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:43,560
buffering, right? Buffering between ag

2344
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:45,320
currently only allows or only requires

2345
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:46,600
40 ft of grass.

2346
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,040
Right?

2347
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:50,920
Um

2348
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:54,560
I mean obviously this

2349
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:54,560
Well, I thought I pulled it up, but uh

2350
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:00,640
» Forgive me, Jonathan. Whatever you're

2351
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:02,800
about to show me, was this given to you

2352
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:04,040
after you produced the staff report or

2353
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,280
is this material

2354
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,800
» Um

2355
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:08,000
this material I don't believe was given

2356
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,360
to me after the staff report, right? I

2357
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,600
think it was prior to.

2358
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:13,320
» I'm going to go back to my my question.

2359
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,160
I mean, you've written twice here you

2360
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:17,160
can't determine the impact cuz you don't

2361
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:18,600
have the necessary information.

2362
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:20,480
» We would like to see increased buffer

2363
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:22,840
standards, just to be honest with you,

2364
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:24,840
because if it is allowed, we know

2365
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:28,120
there's issues with

2366
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:30,160
the dogs and complaints about the noise.

2367
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,920
If this is approved with no additional

2368
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:33,800
requirements,

2369
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,800
the only requirement would be 40 ft of

2370
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:37,720
grass.

2371
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:40,160
Right? Or

2372
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:41,720
let me let me look at the chart. The R2

2373
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:43,240
standards. And so

2374
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:44,720
» That. I mean, I think you

2375
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:45,960
can't answer the question is

2376
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:47,560
the

2377
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:48,160
I I mean, you wrote it down. You didn't

2378
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:49,840
have

2379
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:50,160
» If we had more

2380
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,000
information

2381
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:54,320
» Of I mean, you've written it twice.

2382
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:57,160
» Yes, and

2383
01:26:54,320 --> 01:27:00,280
and technically speaking, the system in

2384
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:03,160
place, right? The application only

2385
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:05,760
requires the submittal of a site plan.

2386
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:09,200
And any further

2387
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:11,600
things that are above that is really at

2388
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:12,960
the discretion or at the expense or the

2389
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,600
risk of the petitioner, right? And so,

2390
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,760
they submitted a site plan, a conceptual

2391
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,600
site plan.

2392
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:20,000
Um and

2393
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:22,800
anything above that

2394
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:24,440
is is either at y'all's discretion or at

2395
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,880
the petitioner's willingness to provide

2396
01:27:24,440 --> 01:27:28,680
it. And um

2397
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,880
some of that obviously gets expensive

2398
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:33,160
and if it's not needed, then why make

2399
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:34,640
the petitioner submit it, right?

2400
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:34,920
And um

2401
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:36,200
» Okay.

2402
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:37,960
» I'm I'm not sure if that answers your

2403
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,000
question or not, but

2404
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,400
um

2405
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,280
that's why that's in that that

2406
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:44,880
statement's there.

2407
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:44,880
» Okay. Well, then thank you.

2408
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,240
» Any other questions for staff?

2409
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,000
» Not at this time. No.

2410
01:27:56,680 --> 01:28:00,600
» Well, I will let the petitioner come up

2411
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,600
and speak.

2412
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:07,930
» [clears throat]

2413
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:25,520
» Good evening, members of the board.

2414
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:28,960
My name is Steven Growth, and it's my

2415
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:30,800
privilege to represent Dr. Denise Cats.

2416
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:33,840
Before she walks you through her

2417
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,760
proposal, I wanted to introduce her to

2418
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,080
you.

2419
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:40,080
She's a licensed veterinarian,

2420
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:42,760
and her life's work is to provide care

2421
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:43,720
for dogs that other people have given up

2422
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:45,360
on.

2423
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:47,040
These are dogs that require serious

2424
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:49,200
medical care.

2425
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:51,520
They've been rescued from a shelter, and

2426
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,520
otherwise would be euthanized.

2427
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:56,760
Her project is called the Love Pet

2428
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:59,320
Project. It's widely recognized.

2429
01:28:56,760 --> 01:29:01,680
It's a non-profit animal welfare

2430
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:03,360
program, and she runs it at her own

2431
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:06,120
cost.

2432
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:09,600
For years, she took in the animals, the

2433
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:12,560
stray dogs, from the county,

2434
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:14,520
at no expense to the taxpayers,

2435
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:16,360
which allowed those animals to stay in

2436
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:18,720
custody shorter,

2437
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:21,360
and deputies to devote their time to

2438
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:22,880
more public safety activities.

2439
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:24,880
Uh you will hear from the sheriff's

2440
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:27,160
department that they strongly support

2441
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:29,000
this petition, showing that it has value

2442
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:30,880
to the community.

2443
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:33,040
You will also hear from many of her

2444
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:35,200
neighbors, almost all of which are

2445
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:37,440
Excuse me, almost all of which are in

2446
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:38,680
support of the petition,

2447
01:29:37,440 --> 01:29:41,520
and

2448
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:44,680
show that this this proposal

2449
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:48,880
uh will not involve extra traffic, extra

2450
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:50,760
noise, and any extra problems within the

2451
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,520
surrounding area.

2452
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:55,640
And with that, I invite you to please

2453
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:57,000
give Dr. Cats your attention. Thank you.

2454
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,360
» Thank you.

2455
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,320
Okay, unfortunately, I'm going to have

2456
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:02,400
to tell him to when to switch slides,

2457
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:03,680
but um go ahead if you don't mind. Thank

2458
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:05,800
you.

2459
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:08,080
Um so, like Steve said, I'm a

2460
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:09,960
veterinarian. Um I spent most of my time

2461
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:12,240
practicing in shelter medicine both at

2462
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:14,520
Indianapolis Animal Care Services and

2463
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:17,800
the Houston SPCA. I actually set up the

2464
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:20,640
whole vet program at um IACS and during

2465
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:22,120
my time there uh won the um Mayor's

2466
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:24,880
Performance Award and Meritorious

2467
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:26,440
Service Award for my work there. Um, I

2468
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:28,440
was an adjunct professor for shelter

2469
01:30:26,440 --> 01:30:31,040
medicine at Texas A&M.

2470
01:30:28,440 --> 01:30:33,720
Um, I founded the Love Pet Project in

2471
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:35,640
September of 2019 to kind of continue my

2472
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:38,080
mission of helping animals.

2473
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:41,520
Um, and I also opened Indy Animal

2474
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:43,360
Surgery Center in 2023. It's at 116th

2475
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:45,080
and Michigan. So, I do have a veterinary

2476
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:46,400
clinic. I actually have one down south

2477
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:49,680
as well.

2478
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:51,480
Um, I sit on several advisory boards

2479
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:54,680
um, including

2480
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:56,720
uh Bailing Out Benji, the uh um

2481
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:58,680
Association of Animal Welfare

2482
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:01,480
Advancement, and I consult and speak

2483
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:04,760
nationally um, usually for the American

2484
01:31:01,480 --> 01:31:07,840
Kennel Club or the AKC um, as well as

2485
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:11,000
Companion Animal Health.

2486
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:11,000
Uh, next slide, please.

2487
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:15,320
So, something that I do want to make

2488
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:17,000
clear, I own every animal on the

2489
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:19,480
property. I know we've been here before.

2490
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:21,560
I know I've said it. Um, but I have

2491
01:31:19,480 --> 01:31:23,560
legal documentation, USDA paperwork for

2492
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:25,600
every dog that's on my property and

2493
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:27,480
puppy. Um, well, every puppy that's on

2494
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:32,920
my property. I don't have any dogs.

2495
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:34,080
Um, but um, that being said, um, when

2496
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:37,040
uh

2497
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:39,240
one of the reasons um

2498
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:40,480
that I wanted to do all this is to save

2499
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:42,200
the puppies and the dogs that would

2500
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:44,120
otherwise be euthanized and not even

2501
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:45,720
given a chance. I mean, all these dogs

2502
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:48,080
that I get

2503
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:51,200
I would venture to say 70% of them would

2504
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:54,880
be dead had uh I not stepped in. Um, I

2505
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:57,640
have a 98.5% live release rate. That was

2506
01:31:54,880 --> 01:32:00,680
as of 2025 and that's including every

2507
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:03,120
animal that enters my property. I do run

2508
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:05,000
the Love Pet Project. I founded it,

2509
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:07,520
um, but that is not the only avenue

2510
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:10,400
which these dogs find homes. Um, I work

2511
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:13,440
with two other rescues, um, one in

2512
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:15,040
Chicago and one in Houston, Texas, and

2513
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:16,640
those are the other avenues in which

2514
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:18,960
these animals find homes, and I have

2515
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:21,760
nothing to do with their operations.

2516
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:23,680
Um, so that is including everybody who's

2517
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:26,720
stepped foot on my property.

2518
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:29,760
Um, so this program, the Love Pet

2519
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:31,320
Project, is nationally recognized, um,

2520
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:33,720
we have been nationally recognized

2521
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:35,840
across many avenues for the impactful

2522
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:38,360
work that we do. We're the only program

2523
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:40,280
of our kind out, um, in the country, and

2524
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:42,280
we is because we work both ends of the

2525
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:43,960
problem. So not only

2526
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:45,440
do I deal with the animals that I have

2527
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:48,120
in my care and making sure they get the

2528
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:50,560
best care possible, but we also work

2529
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:52,520
very strongly with educating the general

2530
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:55,000
public. Um,

2531
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:57,560
I also I'm have a passion for teaching,

2532
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:59,160
so I like to educate students, but also

2533
01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:02,160
breeders to make sure these problems

2534
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:02,160
don't happen again.

2535
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:07,920
Another thing that, um, we do or I do is

2536
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:09,600
I collaborate with universities and

2537
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:11,880
specialists to impact dog population as

2538
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:13,320
a whole and additional implications to

2539
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:16,120
human medicine.

2540
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:17,800
So the bulldogs up there represent all

2541
01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:19,800
the pneumonia puppies that we have. I

2542
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:23,600
developed a new treatment protocol for

2543
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:26,200
pneumonia, um, and so through that, um,

2544
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:27,440
we've saved a lot of puppies, um, other

2545
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:31,160
ones that would have succumbed to the

2546
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:32,840
disease. Um, and actually we're uh,

2547
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:35,000
I speak on this a lot with companion

2548
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:38,360
animal health because we brought this

2549
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:40,640
modality to other, um, places across the

2550
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:42,560
country and we're seeing an improvement

2551
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:44,120
of pneumonia within 1 week

2552
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,760
radiographically where previously it'd

2553
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,000
be 6 weeks.

2554
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:50,040
Um, the Rottweiler, I'm working on a

2555
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,320
study right now with Purdue and Tufts

2556
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:53,640
University on subaortic stenosis in

2557
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:56,000
Rottweilers.

2558
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:58,280
And probably the most fun one is the

2559
01:33:56,000 --> 01:34:00,200
Shiba. We've discovered two populations

2560
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:01,840
of Shibas through this work that have

2561
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:03,840
ventricular septal defects, which

2562
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:05,920
happens to be the most common cardiac

2563
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:07,480
abnormality in infants.

2564
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,400
And through this, and hopefully we're

2565
01:34:07,480 --> 01:34:11,400
going to get the NIH grant, that we'll

2566
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:13,040
be able to use this population of dogs

2567
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,040
to impact babies.

2568
01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:15,600
So,

2569
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:17,200
what we're doing is

2570
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:20,160
even more far-reaching than what you can

2571
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:20,160
see on my property.

2572
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:24,000
We also have several other studies that

2573
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:26,480
are published with other treatment

2574
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:27,960
modalities we've started with the dogs

2575
01:34:26,480 --> 01:34:30,800
we use.

2576
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:30,800
» Next slide, please.

2577
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:35,320
» But what does that impact here locally

2578
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:37,800
in our community? The number one would

2579
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,760
be working with Boone County Sheriff's

2580
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,640
Office. You're going to hear from

2581
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:43,840
Captain McClain here soon.

2582
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:45,480
Um and the impact that we had while we

2583
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:46,760
were working with them, we can't work

2584
01:34:45,480 --> 01:34:50,560
with them right now because we got

2585
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:52,960
designated a kennel. Um so, I can't have

2586
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:56,240
the adult dogs that he has on my

2587
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:57,800
property. Um but we did this at no cost

2588
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:59,680
to the taxpayers.

2589
01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:01,000
You're going to see a case, the only

2590
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:01,880
case I've been able to take in this

2591
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:03,840
year.

2592
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:05,880
Um and we had to do it at a different at

2593
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:09,200
my other location.

2594
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:11,280
Um but that was because

2595
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:13,400
that again wasn't at any cost. It would

2596
01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:15,440
have cost the taxpayers $10,000 for that

2597
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:18,320
one dog. Um and it's something I

2598
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:20,160
absorbed by myself. Um I also assist

2599
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:23,280
them in cruelty cases.

2600
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:24,560
Um I've testified for you guys before as

2601
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,800
well.

2602
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:30,360
Um and then also we help raise money for

2603
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:31,720
the um retired police dogs because it

2604
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:33,320
came to my attention that once they

2605
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:35,960
adopt one,

2606
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:37,920
the community ceases to help. Um and

2607
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:42,920
those dogs worked pretty hard for us.

2608
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:42,920
So, we help um raise money for that.

2609
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:46,000
But let's get to the property. This is

2610
01:35:44,440 --> 01:35:47,480
the property in question.

2611
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:49,480
Um so,

2612
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:50,240
um you can see

2613
01:35:49,480 --> 01:35:52,760
uh

2614
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:55,120
there's a few neighbors here. Um but the

2615
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:56,440
Nelsons are going to be here speaking

2616
01:35:55,120 --> 01:35:58,600
against.

2617
01:35:56,440 --> 01:36:00,320
They are the property adjacent and then

2618
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,640
the property across the street are the

2619
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:05,160
Laviolettes. They will be speaking in

2620
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,600
support. But I do also really want to

2621
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,520
point out that right across the street

2622
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:11,240
from the property is an active fire

2623
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:15,840
station and right across the

2624
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:19,720
421 is a dump. So also active and both

2625
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:21,080
are community serving operations.

2626
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:23,080
To give you a little idea cuz this will

2627
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:24,920
come in later with noise.

2628
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:27,160
We are where the dogs are currently

2629
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:30,200
housed is where that red dot is.

2630
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:32,520
That's the home on the property.

2631
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:36,160
We are 440 ft from the Nelsons. We're

2632
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:39,000
460 ft from the Laviolettes.

2633
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:39,000
Next slide, please.

2634
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:42,400
So I just want to give you a little bit

2635
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,480
of property history.

2636
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,640
Um

2637
01:36:43,480 --> 01:36:48,160
So before I purchased this property, it

2638
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:50,680
sat on the market for 312 days.

2639
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:51,680
During that same time frame

2640
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:53,680
that

2641
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:57,040
other residential houses in Zionsville

2642
01:36:53,680 --> 01:37:00,400
were being sold in 65 days. I think that

2643
01:36:57,040 --> 01:37:02,360
clearly demonstrates that this property

2644
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:04,280
has never functioned as a normal

2645
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:05,840
residential property, which it has been

2646
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:08,920
designated

2647
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:11,440
by the town. It just never has. Even

2648
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:13,680
before I bought it, the historical use

2649
01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:15,800
was always non-conforming. It was never

2650
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:18,400
an R2 property.

2651
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:20,440
And so I think that plays a big role.

2652
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:22,120
And again, I want to stress the fact

2653
01:37:20,440 --> 01:37:24,080
that there's other public service uses

2654
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:26,760
right there down the street.

2655
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:29,120
So saying that we're not in compliance

2656
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:31,120
or not along the same lines, I don't

2657
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:33,040
believe is true because it's already

2658
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:37,680
been approved and it's already

2659
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:37,680
being used for that. Next slide, please.

2660
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:44,360
Some additional property horse history.

2661
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:46,640
It was used for animal related

2662
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:49,120
activities since 1988.

2663
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:51,680
The previous owners that I purchased it

2664
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:53,800
from are um operated their business out

2665
01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:55,640
of there. They had an equestrian center.

2666
01:37:53,800 --> 01:37:57,720
Um there was boarding lessons, people on

2667
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:59,800
and off the property all the time. I

2668
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:01,960
boarded my own horse there.

2669
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:05,400
Um I purchased the property from them in

2670
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:08,600
August of 2020 and since that day um

2671
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:10,160
there have been animals on that property

2672
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:12,240
with historic support from the neighbors

2673
01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:15,120
including the Nelsons. Um they have a

2674
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:17,760
dog for me. They visited our my property

2675
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:19,440
with that dog several a day to allow it

2676
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:20,960
to play in our fenced-in yard with my

2677
01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:23,640
other dogs.

2678
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:25,320
Um in March of 2024 is when I requested

2679
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:26,400
my first use variance. I'm sure you guys

2680
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:28,040
have heard this before.

2681
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:29,600
» 1 minute.

2682
01:38:28,040 --> 01:38:31,280
» What? I'm sorry. What did you say?

2683
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:33,560
» He was just saying 1 minute.

2684
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:34,440
» Oh, I thought I had 15 minutes.

2685
01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:34,880
Oh.

2686
01:38:34,440 --> 01:38:36,160
Sorry.

2687
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,960
» It's okay. Just You can continue.

2688
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:41,520
» Okay. So

2689
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:41,520
um we'll go to the next slide.

2690
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:47,960
Um so the whole reason we took that use

2691
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:50,800
variance out uh was because um Mrs.

2692
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:52,080
Nelson asked us to essentially in that

2693
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,600
zoning appeal. She said, "I guess I

2694
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:55,960
don't understand why it can't stay the

2695
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:57,240
same or the way it was."

2696
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:58,840
So

2697
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:00,360
trying to be a good neighbor, we decided

2698
01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:01,800
to keep it that way

2699
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:03,040
um and

2700
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,440
um

2701
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:06,800
that's what we did. We removed that

2702
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:09,560
request. If you

2703
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:12,400
will you go to two slides from there?

2704
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:16,920
Let me speed this up. Um so in March of

2705
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:20,360
2025 uh the Nelsons decided to uh um

2706
01:39:16,920 --> 01:39:22,800
put in a civil suit against me. Um so in

2707
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:26,680
uh their request in February of this

2708
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:28,600
year, they requested that I um

2709
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:29,280
move current operations

2710
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:32,200
uh

2711
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:34,600
closer to 421, that I request the use

2712
01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:35,960
variance be for a veterinary clinic, uh

2713
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:38,960
that I create new buildings and that I

2714
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:41,600
sell them uh 11.6 acres of my land. If

2715
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:44,520
you'll go ahead.

2716
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:47,880
I agreed to all that except for selling

2717
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:49,880
11.6 acres of my land. I have uh large

2718
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:51,960
animals as well, and I intend to keep

2719
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:56,160
that property for that use.

2720
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:58,160
Um I and I'm moving it closer to 421.

2721
01:39:56,160 --> 01:39:59,920
I'm um

2722
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:03,160
asking for the vet clinic and I will

2723
01:39:59,920 --> 01:40:05,840
build these purpose-built buildings.

2724
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:08,120
Um if you'll go to the next slide.

2725
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:10,040
This again just shows the 5-acre outside

2726
01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:12,000
of the Michigan Road overlay.

2727
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:13,440
Um next slide.

2728
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,680
» Dr. Katz, can I interrupt real quick?

2729
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:17,720
You do get 15.

2730
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:19,000
» Okay. Sorry, I was like

2731
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:20,560
I was planning on that based on the

2732
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:23,080
email.

2733
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:25,360
Um okay. So,

2734
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:27,280
uh property improvements.

2735
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:30,040
Um and I apologize. I thought you had

2736
01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:31,600
all this beforehand. Um and so that's

2737
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:32,480
where I was a little confused by that,

2738
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:36,160
too.

2739
01:40:32,480 --> 01:40:39,040
Um but the veterinary clinic um we're

2740
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:40,800
proposing be 40 by 80 ft. The kennel

2741
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:43,320
buildings, there'll be three detached

2742
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:45,760
ones. They're prefab, made by um the

2743
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:47,720
Amish community. So,

2744
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:49,360
they're used to this. Um

2745
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:51,920
they'll be three of those.

2746
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:54,080
All of that together comprises just over

2747
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:56,040
2% of the property we're proposing.

2748
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:58,000
Again, this is only asking for this 5

2749
01:40:56,040 --> 01:41:00,520
acres. It's not asking for the remaining

2750
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:03,240
acreage, which will stay R2, and I will

2751
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:05,280
retain ownership of it. Um

2752
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:07,320
and then a parking lot to accommodate 17

2753
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:09,200
vehicles. We never believe we'll ever

2754
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:11,360
need that, but it does say that we have

2755
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:14,160
to have one spot for three kennels.

2756
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:17,400
Next slide, please.

2757
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:19,800
So, just a quick overview, that's

2758
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:22,080
what our footprint would look like. And

2759
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:25,440
that is including play yards in the

2760
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:27,280
green square. It's less than what I

2761
01:41:25,440 --> 01:41:28,920
already have on that site, which is that

2762
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:32,920
horse barn.

2763
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:35,680
Uh next uh next slide, please.

2764
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:37,640
Um that's essentially a uh

2765
01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:39,760
a really uh

2766
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:41,680
small um rendering of this, but it's not

2767
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:43,520
to scale. It's just to kind of show how

2768
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:46,400
the buildings will be faced.

2769
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:48,000
Um next slide, please.

2770
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:50,760
And Jonathan, I thought you had these

2771
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:52,080
two, the voluntary commitments. So, um

2772
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:54,080
it was my understanding that we needed

2773
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:56,280
to adhere to Buffer Yard B standards,

2774
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:58,960
but we're also saying that we will put

2775
01:41:56,280 --> 01:42:01,560
privacy fencing around all spaces

2776
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:04,080
housing dogs, inside, outside, wherever

2777
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:07,000
the dogs are, it will be around there.

2778
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:08,520
We're restricting outdoor dog hours. Um

2779
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:12,040
so, they'll only be allowed outside

2780
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:14,880
between 7:00 and 7:00. Um and they will

2781
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:17,280
have automatic doors that lock and doors

2782
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:18,960
that we can lock individually. So, if

2783
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:21,680
there is a nuisance dog, it won't be

2784
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:23,680
allowed free access to the outdoors

2785
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:26,240
um even during the 7:00 to 7:00 time

2786
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:28,360
frame. Um there'll be limited access to

2787
01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:30,200
the property just as there is now. It's

2788
01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:31,480
just myself, my family, my friends, and

2789
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:34,600
the people that help me take care of my

2790
01:42:31,480 --> 01:42:35,200
animals. Um no commercial advertising,

2791
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:37,720
no commercial [clears throat]

2792
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:39,880
operations. This is not an operating vet

2793
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:41,800
clinic in any traditional sense.

2794
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:46,200
This is essentially, please let me have

2795
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:48,080
my dogs on my property um and I don't

2796
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:49,240
want the general public coming in there.

2797
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:51,480
I don't want the general public to even

2798
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:53,480
know we're there. Um

2799
01:42:51,480 --> 01:42:55,160
noise mitigation, we'll be able to have

2800
01:42:53,480 --> 01:42:56,280
the appropriate insulation in these

2801
01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:58,280
buildings,

2802
01:42:56,280 --> 01:43:00,520
um but continue to manage noise,

2803
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:02,320
property maintenance and removal as is,

2804
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:04,120
and then we hope to initiate the project

2805
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:05,520
within a year, and we say we'll

2806
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:09,600
guarantee that it'll be done within

2807
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:09,600
five. Uh next slide, please.

2808
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:15,640
Um uh this So, noise has always been

2809
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:17,600
well, hasn't always, but has recently

2810
01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:19,880
been the complaint, I should say.

2811
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:23,280
What I did after our last meeting here,

2812
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:26,040
um was where you see that star is, um I

2813
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:27,840
bought a um decibel meter that's

2814
01:43:26,040 --> 01:43:29,440
calibrated um

2815
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:31,440
and it lives out there where that star

2816
01:43:29,440 --> 01:43:32,680
is. So, 150 ft from where all the dogs

2817
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:35,760
are housed.

2818
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:36,400
And 290 ft to the Nelson's front door.

2819
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:38,040
Um,

2820
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:40,320
and the new proposed building would be

2821
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:42,720
570 ft from them.

2822
01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:45,560
Um, but that decibel meter is running

2823
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:47,600
non-stop. It takes readings every 5

2824
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:50,080
seconds and records them, but during

2825
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:53,200
that time it's 5 seconds it's picking

2826
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:56,920
whatever the highest volume is and it's

2827
01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:58,480
running through that. Next slide.

2828
01:43:56,920 --> 01:44:00,560
So, um,

2829
01:43:58,480 --> 01:44:03,280
just to give you an idea when we're

2830
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:05,440
talking about sound, 30 to 80 decibels

2831
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:08,400
is considered ambient noise.

2832
01:44:05,440 --> 01:44:10,960
30 to 40 akin to a library, 40 to 55 a

2833
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:13,280
soft conversation, 60 to 75 an active

2834
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:14,720
restaurant um, or general office

2835
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:18,400
chatter.

2836
01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:20,960
These are the top graph is, um, an

2837
01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:23,920
aggregate over an entire month of all

2838
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:26,200
the times those recordings were taken.

2839
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:28,120
And what you'll see is that this is

2840
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:30,280
during the day at the top and at night

2841
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:34,120
at the bottom. It's actually louder at

2842
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:35,960
night. What we did was we also, uh, put

2843
01:44:34,120 --> 01:44:37,840
a microphone attached so we could see

2844
01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:40,000
what was causing the noise. And the

2845
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:42,240
noise at night are the cicadas and bugs

2846
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:44,400
and storms that we've been having. Uh,

2847
01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:46,200
the noise during the day when it rises

2848
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:47,960
is the lawnmower or people talking in

2849
01:44:46,200 --> 01:44:50,320
that area. I have llamas housed in that

2850
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:53,240
area so people like to go play in there.

2851
01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:57,400
Um, but if you'll notice it never

2852
01:44:53,240 --> 01:45:00,440
reaches over ambient noise, ever.

2853
01:44:57,400 --> 01:45:02,280
And this is, again, on my property. By

2854
01:45:00,440 --> 01:45:04,240
the time you reach,

2855
01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:06,280
uh, the Nelson's front door, outside the

2856
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:08,880
front door, not even in their home

2857
01:45:06,280 --> 01:45:12,480
it's fourfold less noisy than that. So,

2858
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:13,920
that's negligible at this point.

2859
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:15,560
Next slide, please.

2860
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:17,400
Again, this is shows that again. This is

2861
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:20,280
every day from

2862
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:21,880
uh, midnight to midnight. Um, and it

2863
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:24,840
never reaches,

2864
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:29,200
uh, over 70.

2865
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:30,560
And just to kind of summarize, next one.

2866
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:32,280
I hate to end on something Well, this is

2867
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:33,600
going to be happy at the end. But, this

2868
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:35,160
is the one case that we helped Broome

2869
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:36,400
County with. I want to be able to help

2870
01:45:35,160 --> 01:45:38,600
them with more.

2871
01:45:36,400 --> 01:45:40,840
This is something that happened in our

2872
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:43,360
community to this dog, and I believe

2873
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:45,200
it's our responsibility to help them.

2874
01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:46,720
And this is the dog that cost us

2875
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:48,720
$10,000.

2876
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:51,440
Um or and would have cost the taxpayers

2877
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:53,400
that, but mainly because I couldn't do

2878
01:45:51,440 --> 01:45:55,040
anything on my property. That dog was

2879
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,640
hospitalized for 2 weeks. I could have

2880
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:57,640
done that myself.

2881
01:45:56,640 --> 01:46:00,360
Um

2882
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:02,120
So, this is uh it was a hardship for us.

2883
01:46:00,360 --> 01:46:04,240
It's one of the reasons we can't

2884
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:07,000
continue to help them, but we felt it

2885
01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:08,160
necessary to help in this case. Um last

2886
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:10,560
slide.

2887
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:12,600
This is the pictures of Maeve yesterday.

2888
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:15,360
Um so, it took us about 2 and 1/2 3

2889
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:17,280
months to get her to this. Um and she

2890
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:18,840
actually is on her way to her new home

2891
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:22,400
today through one of our rescue partners

2892
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:25,000
in Chicago. Um but, this is why I want

2893
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:26,920
to do what we're doing. I'm willing to

2894
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:28,640
take ownership of all these animals, and

2895
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:30,680
luckily in the state of Indiana, animals

2896
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:32,600
are still property. So, no matter the

2897
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:34,560
length of time that I own these dogs,

2898
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:36,520
they're still my property. I can then

2899
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:38,560
choose to give them to somebody else,

2900
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:39,640
but during their length of stay at my

2901
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:41,000
house,

2902
01:46:39,640 --> 01:46:43,040
they're still mine.

2903
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:44,440
Um and I want to be able to help dogs

2904
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:45,760
like Maeve. I want to be able to help

2905
01:46:44,440 --> 01:46:46,440
our community.

2906
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:48,280
Um

2907
01:46:46,440 --> 01:46:49,960
And I want to be able to help dogs as a

2908
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:52,600
whole. And so,

2909
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:54,720
um I know we didn't speak as much to

2910
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:57,040
hardship and things like that, but the

2911
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:59,320
property was already set up for animal

2912
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:02,160
use. Um if I can't use it for that, it

2913
01:46:59,320 --> 01:47:03,880
renders a lot of the buildings unusable.

2914
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:06,080
Um and then

2915
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:07,800
I know that it's been taken away now,

2916
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:08,920
but the airport

2917
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:11,320
um

2918
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:13,200
district was right over that property.

2919
01:47:11,320 --> 01:47:17,400
And my intended use when I bought this

2920
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:19,200
property in 20 19 or 2020, sorry, was to

2921
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:21,120
live on the property.

2922
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:22,760
And after I bought it,

2923
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:24,520
that was imposed.

2924
01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:26,040
And since then, I've had to make other

2925
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:28,200
arrangements, right? I didn't end up

2926
01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:29,920
building my house on the property or

2927
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:32,840
anything like that. And I get that it's

2928
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:35,040
been taken away now, but all those years

2929
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:36,360
of me not being able to do that, I had

2930
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:38,640
to use do something else with the

2931
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:40,640
property as well. So, this was one of

2932
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:42,080
the uses that

2933
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:44,040
we did and it's

2934
01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:46,800
I want to stress that we're doing all of

2935
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:48,760
this right now. Um

2936
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:51,920
we are not intending to change any

2937
01:47:48,760 --> 01:47:53,800
operations. It's just uh I want to be

2938
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:55,800
able to help dogs like Maven help the

2939
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:58,200
community. Right now, you know, we're

2940
01:47:55,800 --> 01:48:01,720
not labeled a kennel because I only have

2941
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:03,720
puppies on of my property. Um but that's

2942
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:05,120
um

2943
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:05,720
I guess what we're asking and I'm

2944
01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:06,560
» Thank you.

2945
01:48:05,720 --> 01:48:07,280
» Open to questions.

2946
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:09,720
» Appreciate it.

2947
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:09,720
» Thank you.

2948
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:14,280
» I do have just a few questions, Dr.

2949
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:15,520
Katz. Uh

2950
01:48:14,280 --> 01:48:17,960
when the sheriff's department brings you

2951
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:19,560
a dog, uh you mentioned you you own the

2952
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:21,480
dogs out here at this farm. Do you take

2953
01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:22,120
ownership of that dog when they bring it

2954
01:48:21,480 --> 01:48:23,360
to you?

2955
01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:24,960
» Not now. We have not been working with

2956
01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:25,720
the sheriff's office since this all

2957
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:28,480
happened.

2958
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:30,080
» In the future, if this was to go through

2959
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:31,160
and the sheriff's department brings you

2960
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:33,080
a dog,

2961
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:34,680
» Correct. I will take ownership. Yes.

2962
01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:34,760
» You don't take ownership at that at that

2963
01:48:34,680 --> 01:48:37,480
moment.

2964
01:48:34,760 --> 01:48:39,760
» Yeah, so our current Well, what we used

2965
01:48:37,480 --> 01:48:41,360
to do was when the animals came in and

2966
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:43,040
they were stray, they stayed at the

2967
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:44,840
sheriff's office during their stray

2968
01:48:43,040 --> 01:48:47,240
hold. As soon as they got off stray

2969
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:48,120
hold, uh Julia would bring them to us,

2970
01:48:47,240 --> 01:48:50,920
the

2971
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:51,360
her her his deputy.

2972
01:48:50,920 --> 01:48:53,840
» Um

2973
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:56,200
» And we would go assess them there for

2974
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:58,520
them again at my cost. I would go, I'd

2975
01:48:56,200 --> 01:49:00,120
vaccinate them, I'd get them all set up,

2976
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:02,800
um but they would hold them there

2977
01:49:00,120 --> 01:49:05,880
because they couldn't be mine yet.

2978
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:08,200
» Um and also in the uh

2979
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:10,880
staff report, we had a building that

2980
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:14,080
showed the clinic

2981
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:15,160
being 14 by 32 and you mentioned 40 by

2982
01:49:14,080 --> 01:49:17,720
80.

2983
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:18,120
» So, that was uh an old one.

2984
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,520
» Okay.

2985
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:23,160
» I I think there there was

2986
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,840
I was meeting with Jonathan probably

2987
01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:26,600
more way more than he would like. So,

2988
01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:27,960
there was different iterations by the

2989
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:29,200
time we got to this point.

2990
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:31,280
» Okay.

2991
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:31,960
So, but it is going to be a 40 by 80.

2992
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:34,080
» Correct.

2993
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,080
» Okay.

2994
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:43,040
I believe I have the most recent updated

2995
01:49:41,160 --> 01:49:44,920
exhibits online that they are looking

2996
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:46,840
at, but if y'all see some revision or

2997
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:48,320
some version that's outdated, let me

2998
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:49,280
know and I'll get the most recent and

2999
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:51,400
show them. Okay?

3000
01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:51,400
» Okay.

3001
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:59,560
You were talking about um

3002
01:49:57,120 --> 01:50:01,960
I'm just wanted to clarify, but you said

3003
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:03,200
that you weren't able to do

3004
01:50:01,960 --> 01:50:05,160
what you want you were going to build a

3005
01:50:03,200 --> 01:50:06,200
resident and residence and you weren't

3006
01:50:05,160 --> 01:50:08,120
able to that so you had to find a

3007
01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:09,760
different I'm confused why you couldn't

3008
01:50:08,120 --> 01:50:11,080
build a house on that property.

3009
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:12,560
» So,

3010
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:14,880
when um

3011
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:17,200
when I finally got full ownership, so

3012
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:19,320
after I sold the or after I purchased

3013
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:20,720
it, the owners part of the deal was the

3014
01:50:19,320 --> 01:50:21,840
previous owners got to live there for a

3015
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:25,160
year.

3016
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:27,680
So, by the time I got um

3017
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:28,400
the entire place, I guess,

3018
01:50:27,680 --> 01:50:30,120
um

3019
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:32,000
they uh

3020
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:34,920
I we were in the overlay or whatever

3021
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:36,440
that What was that called? The um

3022
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:37,960
» Michigan Road Overlay 1

3023
01:50:36,440 --> 01:50:39,400
» Yeah, we were tier 1 for the airport

3024
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:43,120
which

3025
01:50:39,400 --> 01:50:43,120
didn't allow you to build another house.

3026
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:47,120
» I was just clarifying.

3027
01:50:53,480 --> 01:50:57,640
But you could renovate that house or

3028
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:58,880
build tear that down and build another

3029
01:50:57,640 --> 01:51:00,200
one.

3030
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:00,800
» That I don't know. I did not look into

3031
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:02,240
that.

3032
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:04,920
» I'm just curious. I just you made it

3033
01:51:02,240 --> 01:51:07,600
sound like I just wanted to clarify.

3034
01:51:04,920 --> 01:51:07,600
Um

3035
01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:15,960
» To be fair, I also didn't want to put

3036
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:18,360
any additional investments in the

3037
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:19,920
property being that we were in tier one

3038
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:22,480
and across the street from the dump and

3039
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:23,800
it didn't sell for over a year. If I was

3040
01:51:22,480 --> 01:51:26,200
going to live there, that was one thing,

3041
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:27,800
but the excess noise was something that

3042
01:51:26,200 --> 01:51:29,360
scared me.

3043
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:30,560
» You waited six months, you would have

3044
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:31,800
gotten a lot of money for that property,

3045
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:33,800
probably.

3046
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:37,320
It was right on the cusp of everything

3047
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:39,800
blowing up about 50 to 60% so you bought

3048
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:42,960
it at a good time.

3049
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,960
Worth a lot more now.

3050
01:51:44,160 --> 01:51:50,600
» It's questionable due to its location.

3051
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:50,600
» No, I would know.

3052
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:58,720
Any questions?

3053
01:51:57,000 --> 01:52:01,520
» Well, I mean, I it

3054
01:51:58,720 --> 01:52:02,520
you look at some surrounding uses

3055
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:04,840
that

3056
01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:07,040
aren't R2 and I'm sure they're all zoned

3057
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:08,760
appropriately and all that.

3058
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:11,040
Um

3059
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:13,640
I'm sympathetic to that argument about

3060
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:16,600
what's around it. I just don't know that

3061
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:19,280
BZA is the right venue. If if that's the

3062
01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:21,440
argument, it it seems like a a zoning

3063
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:24,440
change request

3064
01:52:21,440 --> 01:52:26,560
more appropriately than a

3065
01:52:24,440 --> 01:52:28,320
a use variance.

3066
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:30,000
Um

3067
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:31,880
Have you considered pursuing it in in

3068
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,920
that avenue and and what brought you

3069
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:35,800
here and instead of there, I guess?

3070
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:37,240
» In speaking with my neighbors,

3071
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:38,880
especially the ones that are in support

3072
01:52:37,240 --> 01:52:41,760
here, they would prefer this use

3073
01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:44,240
variance be tied to me cuz they know how

3074
01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:46,000
I will use the property and I don't

3075
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:47,240
think they want a zoning change. I think

3076
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:49,200
they want it

3077
01:52:47,240 --> 01:52:51,040
they just, you know, cuz that would

3078
01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:52,600
allow me to sell it and get a lot more

3079
01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:55,920
for the land.

3080
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:57,760
But I'm just trying to do what I want to

3081
01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:59,680
like do what I want to do, take care of

3082
01:52:57,760 --> 01:53:01,360
these animals. I'm not trying to

3083
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:04,800
increase the value of the property in

3084
01:53:01,360 --> 01:53:07,200
that sense or um I think a use variance

3085
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:08,360
would suffice in

3086
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:09,360
that case.

3087
01:53:08,360 --> 01:53:10,680
» Okay. I know that.

3088
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:12,960
» And I think it would appease most of my

3089
01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:14,760
neighbors knowing that

3090
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:16,360
this is tied to me and this is my use

3091
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:19,720
and I I mean, I think they know I want

3092
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:19,720
to be there for a very long time.

3093
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:23,960
» Okay. Go ahead.

3094
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:26,120
» No, no, please.

3095
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:28,360
» And and I know

3096
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:31,560
my memory isn't great, but you know, we

3097
01:53:28,360 --> 01:53:34,440
we've spoken in this venue before.

3098
01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:37,200
Um I understand you you own the dogs and

3099
01:53:34,440 --> 01:53:38,920
at some point you transfer ownership. Um

3100
01:53:37,200 --> 01:53:39,920
is there payment at the time of of

3101
01:53:38,920 --> 01:53:42,800
transfer?

3102
01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:46,320
» Not to me personally. They make uh

3103
01:53:42,800 --> 01:53:48,160
an adoption donation to whatever shelter

3104
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:50,440
is adopting out the dog. So, for

3105
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:51,840
example, Maeve

3106
01:53:50,440 --> 01:53:53,920
I don't know what they're going to

3107
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:55,000
charge that adopter. It has nothing to

3108
01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:56,640
do with me.

3109
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:59,040
I will never see a dollar of that, nor

3110
01:53:56,640 --> 01:54:02,280
will the Love Pet Project. That is with

3111
01:53:59,040 --> 01:54:02,280
that adoption agency.

3112
01:54:02,920 --> 01:54:06,000
» Um

3113
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:07,320
All right. I'm going to chew on that for

3114
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,920
a couple of minutes.

3115
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:11,200
» So, how do you make your income? Is that

3116
01:54:08,920 --> 01:54:13,200
from your other vet clinic?

3117
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,360
Because obviously, you do wonderful

3118
01:54:13,200 --> 01:54:15,400
work.

3119
01:54:14,360 --> 01:54:17,800
You know, there's no no one's

3120
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:18,480
questioning the work that you're doing.

3121
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:20,240
Um

3122
01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:21,880
but

3123
01:54:20,240 --> 01:54:24,080
you know, how do you eat, I guess? You

3124
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:25,680
don't do everything for free. So

3125
01:54:24,080 --> 01:54:27,480
» I have seven other businesses.

3126
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:29,600
» Okay. Are they vet clinics?

3127
01:54:27,480 --> 01:54:31,160
» They're all animal adjacent, at least I

3128
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:31,640
would say. But some of them are

3129
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:32,800
veterinary.

3130
01:54:31,640 --> 01:54:33,120
» Okay. Not on this site or on a different

3131
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:34,240
site.

3132
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:35,600
» Correct.

3133
01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:38,000
I own property elsewhere.

3134
01:54:35,600 --> 01:54:38,000
» Okay.

3135
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:43,760
And that the reason you're here tonight

3136
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:45,720
is to get a variance of use to allow an

3137
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:46,560
animal hospital.

3138
01:54:45,720 --> 01:54:48,920
Correct?

3139
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:50,480
» Yes, but it will not function as a

3140
01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:52,360
traditional animal hospital.

3141
01:54:50,480 --> 01:54:55,960
» What will it function as?

3142
01:54:52,360 --> 01:54:55,960
» Just caring for my own animals.

3143
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:58,200
» Okay.

3144
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:01,960
So

3145
01:54:58,200 --> 01:55:04,080
» So, if I can add a point which also um

3146
01:55:01,960 --> 01:55:06,280
relates back to what what Mr. Hurst was

3147
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:09,120
asking about, why the uh the use

3148
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:11,680
variance mechanism is appropriate here

3149
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:14,600
is because the location of this property

3150
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:17,680
is part of its limitations, being across

3151
01:55:14,600 --> 01:55:18,880
from the landfill and the fire station,

3152
01:55:17,680 --> 01:55:20,920
which is part of the unique

3153
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:23,360
characteristics of this property, and it

3154
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:26,160
makes it kind of a buffer property.

3155
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:28,360
It's not, you know, it's buffer between

3156
01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:30,440
the Michigan Road,

3157
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:33,280
uh all the activities there, and

3158
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:35,400
residential, and the use variance is a

3159
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:38,240
is a good opportunity for this board to

3160
01:55:35,400 --> 01:55:40,360
create a carve out a specific use that's

3161
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:43,400
approved that will be a nice buffer

3162
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:45,080
because this the activity that she does

3163
01:55:43,400 --> 01:55:47,200
it's not a commercial, it's not a

3164
01:55:45,080 --> 01:55:50,040
retail, it's not going to have signage

3165
01:55:47,200 --> 01:55:51,600
or anything like that. It's a continuing

3166
01:55:50,040 --> 01:55:53,840
it it allows her to continue what she's

3167
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:55,920
been what she's doing and been doing at

3168
01:55:53,840 --> 01:55:59,760
a location that's farther away from the

3169
01:55:55,920 --> 01:56:02,880
remonstrators and more insulated.

3170
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:04,240
And so it's not it doesn't fall into any

3171
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:07,320
square

3172
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:09,800
uh pay square holes that are currently

3173
01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:11,920
living in the zoning ordinance. That's

3174
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:13,400
why the use variance makes sense to us

3175
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:16,680
at this time.

3176
01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:19,200
» Why are you not asking for just just out

3177
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:21,520
of curiosity, you're asking for a

3178
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:23,680
variance to allow an animal hospital but

3179
01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:24,840
not a kennel?

3180
01:56:23,680 --> 01:56:26,480
Why

3181
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:27,720
what's the

3182
01:56:26,480 --> 01:56:28,600
» Because that's what my neighbors asked

3183
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:29,520
me for.

3184
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:29,880
» Okay.

3185
01:56:29,520 --> 01:56:30,520
» Yeah.

3186
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:32,400
» But is it more

3187
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:33,160
» Otherwise, we would have gone for a

3188
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:33,880
kennel.

3189
01:56:33,160 --> 01:56:35,640
» Okay.

3190
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:38,600
» Well, that's also the focus on the

3191
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:38,600
medical care, too.

3192
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:45,280
» So, what you were saying

3193
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:47,520
is that because this property can't be

3194
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:50,440
used for anything else because

3195
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:52,080
it's adjacent to a firehouse and a waste

3196
01:56:50,440 --> 01:56:53,800
facility,

3197
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:55,760
you're giving it a

3198
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:57,800
a use because without you, it wouldn't

3199
01:56:55,760 --> 01:56:58,600
be worth a lot. Is that what you're

3200
01:56:57,800 --> 01:57:01,440
saying?

3201
01:56:58,600 --> 01:57:03,600
» I mean, I think the facts state like it

3202
01:57:01,440 --> 01:57:04,840
was on the market for 312 days, five

3203
01:57:03,600 --> 01:57:06,560
times longer.

3204
01:57:04,840 --> 01:57:08,800
» Uncommon. That was not uncommon for

3205
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:10,800
Indiana pre-pre-pandemic.

3206
01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:12,800
» But that I mean it was at the same time

3207
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:14,560
where it was 65 days was the average in

3208
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:16,720
Zionsville for residential house.

3209
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,680
» Understand, but it's a new day and age

3210
01:57:16,720 --> 01:57:19,960
and

3211
01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:21,800
and I I would say that lot is very

3212
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:23,880
valuable. Um there's a lot of people

3213
01:57:21,800 --> 01:57:26,440
building, you know,

3214
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:29,720
selling properties for a hundred a

3215
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:32,440
million acre next to fire stations and

3216
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:35,560
huge power lines that I would never want

3217
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:36,720
in my backyard, either. So, you know,

3218
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:38,320
I'm just saying I don't know if that's

3219
01:57:36,720 --> 01:57:40,520
the best way to

3220
01:57:38,320 --> 01:57:42,440
» Spending that money for a home site?

3221
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:45,800
» Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah.

3222
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:47,400
» I actually I would argue that there is

3223
01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:50,560
the landfill across the street does

3224
01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:51,640
limit this property. Growing up here,

3225
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:53,600
um

3226
01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:56,240
that site across street's not just

3227
01:57:53,600 --> 01:57:57,760
landfill. That's a Superfund site. When

3228
01:57:56,240 --> 01:58:00,560
I looked, there were actually four

3229
01:57:57,760 --> 01:58:03,080
separate Superfund sites listed

3230
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:05,480
for that property across the street.

3231
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:07,000
That's So there there is a challenge

3232
01:58:05,480 --> 01:58:09,680
with this property from that standpoint.

3233
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:12,840
» Couldn't pay me to live next to a huge

3234
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:15,240
power plant. I know what kind of voltage

3235
01:58:12,840 --> 01:58:17,920
comes off that whether or not people

3236
01:58:15,240 --> 01:58:19,480
realize that. So, I think that's also

3237
01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:21,120
what are people's pain limits and what

3238
01:58:19,480 --> 01:58:22,920
do they the knowledge base of what

3239
01:58:21,120 --> 01:58:24,160
they're willing to, you know, I mean,

3240
01:58:22,920 --> 01:58:25,440
trust me, I agree with you. I would

3241
01:58:24,160 --> 01:58:27,400
never live there. I'm just it's

3242
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:29,640
surprising to me that the acre just sold

3243
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:31,416
gobs for that.

3244
01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:31,440
» Adjacent to the

3245
01:58:31,416 --> 01:58:33,200
» [clears throat]

3246
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:33,720
» That's true.

3247
01:58:33,200 --> 01:58:35,240
» Yeah.

3248
01:58:33,720 --> 01:58:37,600
» But this is again where I think the

3249
01:58:35,240 --> 01:58:40,120
market speaks for itself, but

3250
01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:42,040
also, I mean, speaking of the Superfund

3251
01:58:40,120 --> 01:58:43,720
site, they come on my property every 3

3252
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:46,240
months to test my well water to see if

3253
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:48,320
it's safe to drink. Um

3254
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:49,880
I would never drink the water there. I

3255
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:51,067
don't care what they say.

3256
01:58:49,880 --> 01:58:51,400
Um But, so,

3257
01:58:51,067 --> 01:58:54,160
» [laughter]

3258
01:58:51,400 --> 01:58:56,080
» It's just, you know, it is it isn't. Um

3259
01:58:54,160 --> 01:58:57,960
and I think my neighbor Nick can speak

3260
01:58:56,080 --> 01:59:01,280
to it. He showed the property

3261
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:02,920
um and his property several times. And

3262
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:04,840
multiple times the reason they didn't

3263
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:09,040
purchase it was because of the Superfund

3264
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:10,000
site and the um fire station.

3265
01:59:09,040 --> 01:59:12,000
» Well, do you guys have any other

3266
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:13,400
questions?

3267
01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:15,240
» No, I think I'd like to hear.

3268
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,800
» Okay, perfect. Thank you guys so much.

3269
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:18,560
» I do think two of my neighbors came in

3270
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:19,400
after the papers were

3271
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:20,880
uh

3272
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:22,480
» Okay, I'll I'll make sure to open it up

3273
01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:25,960
once I get through the list.

3274
01:59:22,480 --> 01:59:25,960
Um okay, Eric Nelson.

3275
01:59:30,080 --> 01:59:38,560
Just state your name and address.

3276
01:59:33,400 --> 01:59:40,800
» I am Eric Nelson. Uh I live at 90 9755

3277
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:42,760
East 100 South and we also have a lot at

3278
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:44,840
9705

3279
01:59:42,760 --> 01:59:46,720
East 100 South.

3280
01:59:44,840 --> 01:59:49,200
Um

3281
01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:52,160
we have been living there since

3282
01:59:49,200 --> 01:59:53,440
2014 when we bought it from the original

3283
01:59:52,160 --> 01:59:56,360
owners,

3284
01:59:53,440 --> 01:59:59,800
uh Gary and Jenny Flora.

3285
01:59:56,360 --> 02:00:01,720
And that property did operate very well

3286
01:59:59,800 --> 02:00:03,360
as an R2.

3287
02:00:01,720 --> 02:00:06,720
Um

3288
02:00:03,360 --> 02:00:08,080
they had horses, not dogs, not a

3289
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:09,640
hospital,

3290
02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:13,800
and they had

3291
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:16,240
20-some-odd horses there for many years.

3292
02:00:13,800 --> 02:00:16,240
Um

3293
02:00:16,560 --> 02:00:20,040
uh First, I want to thank you

3294
02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:20,840
for

3295
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:22,720
um

3296
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:26,520
again for listening to both sides of

3297
02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:28,720
this issue yet again.

3298
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:31,480
Unfortunately, not a lot has changed

3299
02:00:28,720 --> 02:00:34,960
since you heard this petition and ruled

3300
02:00:31,480 --> 02:00:37,720
against it earlier this year.

3301
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:39,320
The cover page now states this will be a

3302
02:00:37,720 --> 02:00:42,120
hospital.

3303
02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:44,960
But as you read on, it's still the same

3304
02:00:42,120 --> 02:00:46,520
kennel operation which Dr. Katz

3305
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:49,600
continues to run

3306
02:00:46,520 --> 02:00:51,600
out of a house with no with no one

3307
02:00:49,600 --> 02:00:53,600
living there or attending to these

3308
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:56,160
animals overnight.

3309
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:59,400
She could have lived in that house that

3310
02:00:56,160 --> 02:01:02,360
stood there as the Flores did and the

3311
02:00:59,400 --> 02:01:03,920
people that she bought it from.

3312
02:01:02,360 --> 02:01:06,120
Um

3313
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:08,840
she describes this in detail in the

3314
02:01:06,120 --> 02:01:10,720
attached deposition.

3315
02:01:08,840 --> 02:01:13,720
There was some misinformation in

3316
02:01:10,720 --> 02:01:16,360
documents presented to you

3317
02:01:13,720 --> 02:01:19,120
as support documents.

3318
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:21,040
I like to deal with facts and truth in

3319
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:24,040
making my decisions

3320
02:01:21,040 --> 02:01:25,480
and I was truly offended when she blamed

3321
02:01:24,040 --> 02:01:26,680
my wife

3322
02:01:25,480 --> 02:01:28,960
um

3323
02:01:26,680 --> 02:01:31,360
for uh

3324
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:33,760
all this situation that that we're

3325
02:01:31,360 --> 02:01:35,320
involved in now and saying that I

3326
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:38,360
approved.

3327
02:01:35,320 --> 02:01:38,360
That never happened.

3328
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:42,360
Um

3329
02:01:41,200 --> 02:01:42,880
» That's good.

3330
02:01:42,360 --> 02:01:44,120
» I like to

3331
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:46,120
» Situation, I just want to say one thing.

3332
02:01:44,120 --> 02:01:48,600
The situation has also changed over the

3333
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:50,880
last couple of years. So, it started out

3334
02:01:48,600 --> 02:01:52,680
as puppies, it was fine, but then we

3335
02:01:50,880 --> 02:01:54,480
went to rescuing dogs from the sheriff's

3336
02:01:52,680 --> 02:01:56,440
office and again, there's nobody there

3337
02:01:54,480 --> 02:01:58,960
at night. So, these are puppies and

3338
02:01:56,440 --> 02:02:00,320
adult dogs. There were outdoor runs.

3339
02:01:58,960 --> 02:02:02,120
She's showing you that they're in the

3340
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:04,040
house now in the residence, but that's

3341
02:02:02,120 --> 02:02:07,200
the change that was made. They're in a

3342
02:02:04,040 --> 02:02:09,160
shed right outside our place. So, so

3343
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:11,840
this you know, sound mitigation, that's

3344
02:02:09,160 --> 02:02:14,680
all great and and nobody is against

3345
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:16,840
rescuing dogs, absolutely not. It's just

3346
02:02:14,680 --> 02:02:19,840
the way this business is being run, it's

3347
02:02:16,840 --> 02:02:21,600
run out of a house. Um there's lots of

3348
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:23,880
cars there, there's lots of employees

3349
02:02:21,600 --> 02:02:25,560
there. It's a residence, but nobody

3350
02:02:23,880 --> 02:02:27,320
lives there. So,

3351
02:02:25,560 --> 02:02:29,360
again, we just want to thank you for

3352
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:31,280
hearing the petition again, listening to

3353
02:02:29,360 --> 02:02:31,600
both sides and our attorney's going to

3354
02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:33,120
say more.

3355
02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:34,120
» I'll speak now.

3356
02:02:33,120 --> 02:02:35,200
Stay here though.

3357
02:02:34,120 --> 02:02:36,760
» Yep.

3358
02:02:35,200 --> 02:02:38,680
Uh

3359
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:40,200
thank you uh members of the uh Board of

3360
02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:43,960
Zoning Appeals. My name is Mike

3361
02:02:40,200 --> 02:02:45,840
Andreoli, 1393 West Oak Street. Uh have

3362
02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:47,640
represented the Nelsons for a number of

3363
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:51,440
years with regard to this particular

3364
02:02:47,640 --> 02:02:53,200
situation. Uh and continue to represent

3365
02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:55,800
them tonight. I'm going to try to be

3366
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:57,880
very brief. I've submitted written

3367
02:02:55,800 --> 02:03:01,280
materials to you twice now with the

3368
02:02:57,880 --> 02:03:03,640
supplemental just on on just a few days

3369
02:03:01,280 --> 02:03:06,760
ago. I apologize for the lateness of the

3370
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:09,320
supplemental. A counsel for

3371
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:12,840
Dr. Katz indicated that they were going

3372
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:15,240
to need a a in a continuance of this uh

3373
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:18,040
midweek of last week

3374
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:20,240
and kind enough to ask me if my thoughts

3375
02:03:18,040 --> 02:03:22,160
about if I had any objection to it. He

3376
02:03:20,240 --> 02:03:24,640
had a conflict and of course I tried to

3377
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:26,240
be accommodating and said no. If you

3378
02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:29,080
needed to be a continue get a

3379
02:03:26,240 --> 02:03:30,760
continuance, we would try to not be in

3380
02:03:29,080 --> 02:03:32,880
opposition to that if you actually have

3381
02:03:30,760 --> 02:03:35,400
a conflict. And then the mind was

3382
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:38,120
changed and then Friday we learned no

3383
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:40,720
that matter is going to be put on. So I

3384
02:03:38,120 --> 02:03:42,960
had a I had to regenerate what I was

3385
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:45,400
thinking of doing the week before. So I

3386
02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:47,040
apologize for that. Couple of different

3387
02:03:45,400 --> 02:03:49,440
things I think it

3388
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:53,040
need to understand.

3389
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:57,000
This isn't a 17-acre site.

3390
02:03:53,040 --> 02:03:59,680
This is actually two separate lots.

3391
02:03:57,000 --> 02:04:01,840
It It amounts to 17 acres.

3392
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:04,960
But the portrayal of this is all one lot

3393
02:04:01,840 --> 02:04:08,120
of 17 acres. These are two parcels.

3394
02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:10,440
First parcel is a 5-acre parcel at the

3395
02:04:08,120 --> 02:04:13,040
corner of County Road 100 Road by the

3396
02:04:10,440 --> 02:04:16,640
way, which is a gravel road and Michigan

3397
02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:20,400
Road. So that's 5 acres. The balance of

3398
02:04:16,640 --> 02:04:23,240
the ground is from that the western

3399
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:25,720
terminus of the 5 acres all the way to

3400
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:27,920
my client's property line. So

3401
02:04:25,720 --> 02:04:31,360
in essence there are two parcels making

3402
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:34,880
this up. Uh that's significant because

3403
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:36,280
in our efforts to try to be cooperative

3404
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:38,920
and said look, if you're going to e-

3405
02:04:36,280 --> 02:04:41,480
either seek a rezoning or a use variance

3406
02:04:38,920 --> 02:04:43,000
or something to locate a veterinary

3407
02:04:41,480 --> 02:04:44,800
hospital,

3408
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:46,160
if that's what you needed, a veterinary

3409
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:47,480
hospital,

3410
02:04:46,160 --> 02:04:49,520
put it

3411
02:04:47,480 --> 02:04:51,960
at Michigan Road.

3412
02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:53,920
Put it next to Michigan Road. Put it

3413
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:57,160
where that there there's traffic there,

3414
02:04:53,920 --> 02:05:00,880
there's noise there. Uh now, uh that's

3415
02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:03,840
the appropriate place to put this

3416
02:05:00,880 --> 02:05:05,960
proposed veterinary hospital if if it's

3417
02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:09,560
if it's going to be put at all.

3418
02:05:05,960 --> 02:05:11,200
I I'm reminded of the uh the uh

3419
02:05:09,560 --> 02:05:14,120
uh application that came before you

3420
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:15,720
tonight for use variance and reminded of

3421
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:18,480
the application that was approved a

3422
02:05:15,720 --> 02:05:20,760
number of years ago for Hopwood Cellar.

3423
02:05:18,480 --> 02:05:22,160
And they I understand he's got a

3424
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:25,240
purchaser for that and they're coming

3425
02:05:22,160 --> 02:05:27,680
back uh with some additional site plan

3426
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:30,480
uh and uh architectural requirements,

3427
02:05:27,680 --> 02:05:32,360
but when we did that use variance,

3428
02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:33,560
we had a we had to talk to the state of

3429
02:05:32,360 --> 02:05:36,400
Indiana

3430
02:05:33,560 --> 02:05:39,040
uh off of 421. We had to get uh

3431
02:05:36,400 --> 02:05:42,320
approvals and comments from the from the

3432
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:44,000
highway department. We had have detailed

3433
02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:45,800
renderings of that, and those of you

3434
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:47,560
that were on the board remember that. We

3435
02:05:45,800 --> 02:05:49,800
had very detailed renderings of what it

3436
02:05:47,560 --> 02:05:52,040
was going to look like, a very detailed

3437
02:05:49,800 --> 02:05:54,080
and engineered site plan. We had some

3438
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:56,120
preliminary drainage issues. We had a

3439
02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:57,840
number of other issues. We don't know

3440
02:05:56,120 --> 02:06:01,160
whether this is going to be on septic or

3441
02:05:57,840 --> 02:06:04,240
well, and if the water's so bad,

3442
02:06:01,160 --> 02:06:07,880
uh what is this even being located on a

3443
02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:09,640
septic or or a well uh if in fact that's

3444
02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:12,160
what it's going to be?

3445
02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:14,040
There's no detailed site plan with this.

3446
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:17,200
This is not This is not ready for

3447
02:06:14,040 --> 02:06:19,120
primetime under any circumstance and

3448
02:06:17,200 --> 02:06:20,840
puts uh staff in a particularly

3449
02:06:19,120 --> 02:06:23,440
difficult position cuz they don't really

3450
02:06:20,840 --> 02:06:26,080
have anything to review. And if you give

3451
02:06:23,440 --> 02:06:27,960
an approval, most of the approvals on

3452
02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:30,880
use variances or on a lot of these

3453
02:06:27,960 --> 02:06:33,720
projects or subject to the actual site

3454
02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:35,360
plan that you that you develop in

3455
02:06:33,720 --> 02:06:37,440
accordance with the site plan that's

3456
02:06:35,360 --> 02:06:39,720
being proposed for the use variance. We

3457
02:06:37,440 --> 02:06:42,400
don't even have a legitimate site plan

3458
02:06:39,720 --> 02:06:45,360
in this particular situation. They have

3459
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:46,640
what what is looks like an AI-generated

3460
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:48,920
uh

3461
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:51,280
area, but we don't have any dimensions,

3462
02:06:48,920 --> 02:06:53,960
we don't have any of those things

3463
02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:56,200
connected with a normal use variance

3464
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:58,320
that has been approved all and up and

3465
02:06:56,200 --> 02:07:00,400
down Michigan Road for a number of

3466
02:06:58,320 --> 02:07:02,360
years. And the architecture that we have

3467
02:07:00,400 --> 02:07:05,000
there and the development that we have

3468
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:07,800
there is just been wonderful, but it's

3469
02:07:05,000 --> 02:07:10,920
because of the the detailed nature of

3470
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:13,560
what has been presented. Uh

3471
02:07:10,920 --> 02:07:15,440
So, that that's a that's a real concern.

3472
02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:17,600
The other concern is

3473
02:07:15,440 --> 02:07:19,120
uh as as I mentioned to you in my

3474
02:07:17,600 --> 02:07:21,640
supplemental,

3475
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:23,680
uh they're asking for a 1-year approval

3476
02:07:21,640 --> 02:07:25,640
to go ahead and construct. Well, that

3477
02:07:23,680 --> 02:07:28,400
just gives them a stopgap measure in the

3478
02:07:25,640 --> 02:07:30,000
litigation that's going on so that they

3479
02:07:28,400 --> 02:07:32,120
they can argue that they've been given

3480
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:34,160
approval, but they they they may or may

3481
02:07:32,120 --> 02:07:36,200
not ever ever build, they'll just

3482
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:38,840
continue to utilize the property as it's

3483
02:07:36,200 --> 02:07:43,560
currently as it's currently utilized,

3484
02:07:38,840 --> 02:07:46,120
which we believe is is a nuisance and in

3485
02:07:43,560 --> 02:07:48,640
contra- contradiction to the zoning

3486
02:07:46,120 --> 02:07:50,760
ordinances that that we have here in

3487
02:07:48,640 --> 02:07:52,560
Zion as as it relates to the use of that

3488
02:07:50,760 --> 02:07:54,240
particular realm.

3489
02:07:52,560 --> 02:07:57,040
Finally, one of my

3490
02:07:54,240 --> 02:07:58,600
one of my concerns were what I I and I I

3491
02:07:57,040 --> 02:08:00,520
was looking at the things that were

3492
02:07:58,600 --> 02:08:03,080
coming in and out, and I'm sure as staff

3493
02:08:00,520 --> 02:08:05,520
was, various things that that changed

3494
02:08:03,080 --> 02:08:07,600
and submitted to try to get a handle on

3495
02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:08,440
exactly what are they proposing out

3496
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:11,280
there.

3497
02:08:08,440 --> 02:08:14,320
They They Their initial application was

3498
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:15,560
for a veterinary hospital.

3499
02:08:14,320 --> 02:08:17,600
Well,

3500
02:08:15,560 --> 02:08:19,400
that sounds good, but when you look at

3501
02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:21,480
all of the veterinary hospitals, and I

3502
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:23,640
provided you with pictures and

3503
02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:25,320
everything of the veterinary hospitals

3504
02:08:23,640 --> 02:08:27,160
in and around this area, two things

3505
02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:29,640
stand out. One, they're in

3506
02:08:27,160 --> 02:08:33,760
truly commercial districts.

3507
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:33,760
And two, none of them have kennels.

3508
02:08:33,880 --> 02:08:37,080
Th-

3509
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:40,200
This is This is not a veterinary

3510
02:08:37,080 --> 02:08:42,960
hospital. This is a kennel masquerading

3511
02:08:40,200 --> 02:08:44,760
as a veterinary hospital. So, aside from

3512
02:08:42,960 --> 02:08:46,960
some of the legal requirements and the

3513
02:08:44,760 --> 02:08:49,440
legal objections that we have as it

3514
02:08:46,960 --> 02:08:52,600
relates to the setbacks that would that

3515
02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:54,640
would be required with regard to kennels

3516
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:56,720
that the county has imposed and

3517
02:08:54,640 --> 02:08:58,240
presumably are now part of Zion's

3518
02:08:56,720 --> 02:08:58,960
ordinances,

3519
02:08:58,240 --> 02:09:00,800
uh

3520
02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:02,520
this is really not a a veterinary

3521
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,840
hospital at all.

3522
02:09:02,520 --> 02:09:04,840
Uh

3523
02:09:06,400 --> 02:09:13,040
Let me sum up by saying I I understand

3524
02:09:09,760 --> 02:09:14,680
the the concern about trying to help

3525
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:17,360
animals and

3526
02:09:14,680 --> 02:09:20,160
uh and I understand the the desire to do

3527
02:09:17,360 --> 02:09:24,000
good work and I'm not here to suggest

3528
02:09:20,160 --> 02:09:26,240
that the Dr. Katz is not doing good work

3529
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:29,040
and doesn't have her heart in the right

3530
02:09:26,240 --> 02:09:31,520
place as it relates to trying to protect

3531
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:33,720
animals and do those types of things.

3532
02:09:31,520 --> 02:09:35,120
I think we could probably all agree to

3533
02:09:33,720 --> 02:09:36,440
that.

3534
02:09:35,120 --> 02:09:39,280
But,

3535
02:09:36,440 --> 02:09:42,280
members of the Board of Zoning Appeals,

3536
02:09:39,280 --> 02:09:45,120
doing good work

3537
02:09:42,280 --> 02:09:46,400
uh and having a noble cause has never

3538
02:09:45,120 --> 02:09:48,400
been

3539
02:09:46,400 --> 02:09:50,720
the litmus test for good planning and

3540
02:09:48,400 --> 02:09:52,240
zoning in the town of Zion's Hill. It

3541
02:09:50,720 --> 02:09:54,520
just hasn't.

3542
02:09:52,240 --> 02:09:57,080
I I've never had a client who thought

3543
02:09:54,520 --> 02:09:59,200
that they didn't do good work.

3544
02:09:57,080 --> 02:10:00,920
Uh I've never heard of somebody

3545
02:09:59,200 --> 02:10:03,280
presenting on behalf of a client who

3546
02:10:00,920 --> 02:10:05,560
didn't think they did good work.

3547
02:10:03,280 --> 02:10:07,760
Uh that doesn't translate on whether or

3548
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:09,760
this is the right location.

3549
02:10:07,760 --> 02:10:11,000
It is not the right location for this

3550
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:11,760
particular

3551
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:15,080
uh

3552
02:10:11,760 --> 02:10:19,200
for this particular use of the property.

3553
02:10:15,080 --> 02:10:21,800
And I I I I tend to agree with

3554
02:10:19,200 --> 02:10:24,480
with one of the members of the Board of

3555
02:10:21,800 --> 02:10:27,400
Zoning Appeals that suggested maybe the

3556
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:29,400
the better approach is to try to see if

3557
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:32,960
you could seek a rezoning

3558
02:10:29,400 --> 02:10:34,880
in and along Michigan Road to have a

3559
02:10:32,960 --> 02:10:36,480
land use change where all of the

3560
02:10:34,880 --> 02:10:37,960
particulars are going to have to be met.

3561
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:41,920
The town council is going to have to be

3562
02:10:37,960 --> 02:10:44,560
consulted. Is that part of what we want

3563
02:10:41,920 --> 02:10:46,800
to see in and along Michigan Road? The

3564
02:10:44,560 --> 02:10:49,480
other advantage of that is they have to

3565
02:10:46,800 --> 02:10:52,120
conform with the Michigan Road Overlay

3566
02:10:49,480 --> 02:10:54,880
District as all others who have located

3567
02:10:52,120 --> 02:10:57,480
in and along Michigan Road. So, it's

3568
02:10:54,880 --> 02:10:59,720
this is really a cynical attempt to move

3569
02:10:57,480 --> 02:11:02,080
it to the center of the property, come

3570
02:10:59,720 --> 02:11:05,560
off of Michigan Road by 400 ft, and

3571
02:11:02,080 --> 02:11:07,640
therefore not have any architectural uh

3572
02:11:05,560 --> 02:11:09,280
standards with regard to this. We don't

3573
02:11:07,640 --> 02:11:11,480
have a rendering. We have no

3574
02:11:09,280 --> 02:11:13,800
architectural standards. We have nothing

3575
02:11:11,480 --> 02:11:16,560
as part of this application.

3576
02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:20,600
Uh and so, uh we would respectfully uh

3577
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:24,160
request that the uh board deny this uh

3578
02:11:20,600 --> 02:11:25,160
use variance. Thank you, members.

3579
02:11:24,160 --> 02:11:27,080
» Why don't you guys stay up for a minute

3580
02:11:25,160 --> 02:11:28,560
in case there's any questions? Can you

3581
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:29,520
guys just stay at the podium for a

3582
02:11:28,560 --> 02:11:31,880
minute?

3583
02:11:29,520 --> 02:11:33,760
If you guys have any questions.

3584
02:11:31,880 --> 02:11:35,040
No? Okay.

3585
02:11:33,760 --> 02:11:36,080
All right, never mind. Go ahead and sit

3586
02:11:35,040 --> 02:11:38,640
down.

3587
02:11:36,080 --> 02:11:38,640
Um

3588
02:11:39,400 --> 02:11:43,200
Okay, I have a Jeremy.

3589
02:11:55,800 --> 02:11:59,640
» Um Jeremy McLain from Boone County

3590
02:11:57,280 --> 02:12:02,400
Sheriff's Office, 1905 Indianapolis

3591
02:11:59,640 --> 02:12:04,520
Avenue. It's in Lebanon, 46052.

3592
02:12:02,400 --> 02:12:06,240
Um I did submit a letter um

3593
02:12:04,520 --> 02:12:09,200
on behalf of the Sheriff's Office in

3594
02:12:06,240 --> 02:12:09,920
support of Dr. Katz in what she does.

3595
02:12:09,200 --> 02:12:12,200
Um

3596
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:14,120
you know, we started this program

3597
02:12:12,200 --> 02:12:16,680
um when we started it, you know, we were

3598
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:18,080
averaging keeping dogs for

3599
02:12:16,680 --> 02:12:20,560
7 days.

3600
02:12:18,080 --> 02:12:24,120
Um right now we're keeping dogs right

3601
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:27,360
around 2 and 1/2 months um before we can

3602
02:12:24,120 --> 02:12:28,840
get the Humane Society to step up and um

3603
02:12:27,360 --> 02:12:31,480
take these dogs.

3604
02:12:28,840 --> 02:12:32,560
So, you know, that burden itself on us,

3605
02:12:31,480 --> 02:12:34,680
on the sheriff's office, on animal

3606
02:12:32,560 --> 02:12:37,240
control, on the taxpayers, you know, it

3607
02:12:34,680 --> 02:12:38,840
just it it just mounts. Um you know,

3608
02:12:37,240 --> 02:12:40,440
when she was doing it like she said, you

3609
02:12:38,840 --> 02:12:41,760
know, we would bring a dog in if we knew

3610
02:12:40,440 --> 02:12:43,560
it was a stray, she would come to the

3611
02:12:41,760 --> 02:12:46,280
facility, she would assess it, she would

3612
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:48,560
treat it. Once the stray hold was up, we

3613
02:12:46,280 --> 02:12:52,000
would take it to her facility, sign it

3614
02:12:48,560 --> 02:12:53,480
over to her, and then she would um adopt

3615
02:12:52,000 --> 02:12:55,720
it out. Um

3616
02:12:53,480 --> 02:12:57,040
you know, she she showed you Maeve on

3617
02:12:55,720 --> 02:12:58,680
there. That actually Maeve was actually

3618
02:12:57,040 --> 02:13:00,360
seized from Zanesville

3619
02:12:58,680 --> 02:13:03,120
from the apartments just right up here

3620
02:13:00,360 --> 02:13:03,760
on um Michigan Road. I received a call

3621
02:13:03,120 --> 02:13:05,640
um

3622
02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:07,240
on uh

3623
02:13:05,640 --> 02:13:08,400
election day this year at 4:00 in the

3624
02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:10,520
afternoon

3625
02:13:08,400 --> 02:13:12,200
from several Zanesville officers. They

3626
02:13:10,520 --> 02:13:13,640
went into an apartment and the dog was

3627
02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:15,560
was laying there in a kennel.

3628
02:13:13,640 --> 02:13:17,360
Um I was able to contact Dr. Katz

3629
02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:19,520
immediately um

3630
02:13:17,360 --> 02:13:20,920
and met with him and

3631
02:13:19,520 --> 02:13:22,480
she said, "No questions asked." She

3632
02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:23,840
said, "Bring it to

3633
02:13:22,480 --> 02:13:26,680
um the Animal Surgery Center." When I

3634
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:28,400
got there, herself and the other uh

3635
02:13:26,680 --> 02:13:31,640
veterinarian there, Dr. Ball, were there

3636
02:13:28,400 --> 02:13:32,720
waiting. Um the dog was was basically it

3637
02:13:31,640 --> 02:13:34,240
was gone.

3638
02:13:32,720 --> 02:13:36,520
And they they spent several hours that

3639
02:13:34,240 --> 02:13:38,280
night um bringing her back.

3640
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:39,880
Um and like she said, she monitored her

3641
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:41,800
for several months or I'm sorry, they

3642
02:13:39,880 --> 02:13:42,680
they monitored there for several weeks,

3643
02:13:41,800 --> 02:13:43,600
and then once she was healthy enough we

3644
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:45,720
brought her back to the kennels, and

3645
02:13:43,600 --> 02:13:48,720
then today we were able to

3646
02:13:45,720 --> 02:13:50,440
get her adopted out. So, um Zanesville

3647
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:53,720
police called me because, you know, they

3648
02:13:50,440 --> 02:13:55,200
contacted every local vet there. Every

3649
02:13:53,720 --> 02:13:57,200
local vet wanted

3650
02:13:55,200 --> 02:13:58,640
payment up front. Nobody was going to

3651
02:13:57,200 --> 02:14:00,600
going to save this dog unless they could

3652
02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:03,320
pay the bill up front.

3653
02:14:00,600 --> 02:14:04,840
Um Dr. Katz still to this day has never

3654
02:14:03,320 --> 02:14:07,280
sent us a bill.

3655
02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:08,920
Um which in turn, you know, obviously is

3656
02:14:07,280 --> 02:14:10,560
is a huge

3657
02:14:08,920 --> 02:14:11,880
uh benefit for us. And that's not the

3658
02:14:10,560 --> 02:14:14,360
first dog like that. There's been

3659
02:14:11,880 --> 02:14:16,120
several dogs um that she's taken in for

3660
02:14:14,360 --> 02:14:18,800
us that she's done that and we've never

3661
02:14:16,120 --> 02:14:22,120
once received a bill. Um

3662
02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:24,120
so I you know, I can't you know,

3663
02:14:22,120 --> 02:14:26,200
express enough, you know, the important

3664
02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:27,440
work that she does especially for for us

3665
02:14:26,200 --> 02:14:29,400
and the residents of the county. It's

3666
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:30,440
it's never cost us a dime. You know, I I

3667
02:14:29,400 --> 02:14:33,240
really hope you guys approve the

3668
02:14:30,440 --> 02:14:35,040
variance that way we can get back to uh

3669
02:14:33,240 --> 02:14:36,120
you know, our work with her. Right now,

3670
02:14:35,040 --> 02:14:37,480
you know, we have six kennels at the

3671
02:14:36,120 --> 02:14:40,200
sheriff's office.

3672
02:14:37,480 --> 02:14:42,320
Um when those are full,

3673
02:14:40,200 --> 02:14:43,800
if a dog comes if somebody from calls

3674
02:14:42,320 --> 02:14:46,360
and says I've got a dog,

3675
02:14:43,800 --> 02:14:47,760
we we can't take it. We say we're sorry.

3676
02:14:46,360 --> 02:14:49,080
It's it's got to roam. There's nothing

3677
02:14:47,760 --> 02:14:52,440
we can do with it.

3678
02:14:49,080 --> 02:14:54,760
Um so, appreciate that. Thank you.

3679
02:14:52,440 --> 02:14:54,760
» Yeah.

3680
02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:58,680
Uh Nick

3681
02:14:59,880 --> 02:15:03,240
» Thank you.

3682
02:15:00,360 --> 02:15:03,240
» Nick Labuelette is ready.

3683
02:15:08,160 --> 02:15:14,440
» Uh Nick Labuelette, I'm right across the

3684
02:15:10,320 --> 02:15:17,520
street 9860 East 100 South.

3685
02:15:14,440 --> 02:15:18,920
Um okay. So, I guess this is like

3686
02:15:17,520 --> 02:15:19,720
the second or third time I've been here

3687
02:15:18,920 --> 02:15:20,800
to tell you that they're great

3688
02:15:19,720 --> 02:15:22,360
neighbors.

3689
02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:23,680
Um

3690
02:15:22,360 --> 02:15:26,000
they're great.

3691
02:15:23,680 --> 02:15:28,000
They're always there to help out. She is

3692
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:29,960
not absent. She's there

3693
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:31,240
before I leave the house every day. Just

3694
02:15:29,960 --> 02:15:33,680
because she doesn't live on the property

3695
02:15:31,240 --> 02:15:34,960
does not mean she's not there.

3696
02:15:33,680 --> 02:15:36,200
Um

3697
02:15:34,960 --> 02:15:37,920
what we're really talking about here

3698
02:15:36,200 --> 02:15:39,560
today with this variance was at the

3699
02:15:37,920 --> 02:15:42,120
request

3700
02:15:39,560 --> 02:15:44,840
of the other neighbors.

3701
02:15:42,120 --> 02:15:47,240
And the only thing it does is allow them

3702
02:15:44,840 --> 02:15:50,200
allow her to have the dogs she owns that

3703
02:15:47,240 --> 02:15:52,040
are over the age of 4 months.

3704
02:15:50,200 --> 02:15:54,240
That's all we're really trying to do.

3705
02:15:52,040 --> 02:15:58,040
That she's trying to do.

3706
02:15:54,240 --> 02:16:00,520
So, that is the designation of a kennel

3707
02:15:58,040 --> 02:16:02,480
would not allow that. And that's what

3708
02:16:00,520 --> 02:16:05,960
she's after. She wants her dogs that she

3709
02:16:02,480 --> 02:16:09,480
personally owns that are over 4 months

3710
02:16:05,960 --> 02:16:11,840
to be able to live on her property.

3711
02:16:09,480 --> 02:16:11,840
That's all.

3712
02:16:13,400 --> 02:16:16,080
» Nick

3713
02:16:14,280 --> 02:16:17,480
I have some It doesn't say your last

3714
02:16:16,080 --> 02:16:19,880
name on here. Just doesn't

3715
02:16:17,480 --> 02:16:21,800
No, it doesn't. It says D E N N Y.

3716
02:16:19,880 --> 02:16:23,080
Denny?

3717
02:16:21,800 --> 02:16:25,040
I mean, it's poor penmanship, but it

3718
02:16:23,080 --> 02:16:26,240
doesn't say Love yet. I'm just making

3719
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:28,200
sure I didn't miss somebody in the

3720
02:16:26,240 --> 02:16:30,160
audience that

3721
02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:33,440
I mean, am I crazy?

3722
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:35,599
» I got here late, so I actually that

3723
02:16:33,440 --> 02:16:36,920
paper was not down, but maybe somebody

3724
02:16:35,599 --> 02:16:38,000
put my name down.

3725
02:16:36,920 --> 02:16:41,000
» Okay, I just wanted to make sure I was

3726
02:16:38,000 --> 02:16:42,599
getting cuz we keep these

3727
02:16:41,000 --> 02:16:45,040
Yeah, there seems to be a different Nick

3728
02:16:42,599 --> 02:16:46,760
on here, so I I was just verifying.

3729
02:16:45,040 --> 02:16:47,899
Sorry.

3730
02:16:46,760 --> 02:16:49,320
You're good. I just

3731
02:16:47,899 --> 02:16:51,280
» [laughter]

3732
02:16:49,320 --> 02:16:51,480
» I I accept that he knows his last name.

3733
02:16:51,280 --> 02:16:53,480
I accept

3734
02:16:51,480 --> 02:16:55,960
» Yeah, well, is there another Nick in the

3735
02:16:53,480 --> 02:16:59,519
audience that was wrote their name down

3736
02:16:55,960 --> 02:17:00,880
here that's not this Nick? No? Okay.

3737
02:16:59,519 --> 02:17:03,760
Okay.

3738
02:17:00,880 --> 02:17:03,760
Didn't miss anyone then.

3739
02:17:06,120 --> 02:17:10,880
Oh, does anyone online? Oh, yeah.

3740
02:17:08,559 --> 02:17:12,519
Please, come up. Okay, thank you. Please

3741
02:17:10,880 --> 02:17:13,760
state your name. Welcome to come up.

3742
02:17:12,519 --> 02:17:15,240
Sorry.

3743
02:17:13,760 --> 02:17:16,120
» Only if your name is Nick.

3744
02:17:15,240 --> 02:17:19,120
» Yeah.

3745
02:17:16,120 --> 02:17:19,120
With the last name Denny.

3746
02:17:21,200 --> 02:17:25,800
» Uh yeah, my name is Marcus Hendry. I

3747
02:17:22,719 --> 02:17:28,400
live at 9602 East 100 South. So, I'm

3748
02:17:25,800 --> 02:17:32,160
about 1/4 mile down the road. Um

3749
02:17:28,400 --> 02:17:34,800
and uh I've had the opportunity to visit

3750
02:17:32,160 --> 02:17:36,639
her cats' property and talk to her about

3751
02:17:34,800 --> 02:17:38,000
specifically what she wants to do and

3752
02:17:36,639 --> 02:17:41,639
what that's going to look like and the

3753
02:17:38,000 --> 02:17:43,480
whole the whole purpose of it. Um and uh

3754
02:17:41,639 --> 02:17:46,719
and everything that she's tried to done

3755
02:17:43,480 --> 02:17:48,679
in in communication with her closest

3756
02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:50,440
neighbor in terms of like

3757
02:17:48,679 --> 02:17:52,360
mitigation of any noise in terms of the

3758
02:17:50,440 --> 02:17:54,040
scheduling outside dog time in terms of

3759
02:17:52,360 --> 02:17:55,800
like you know

3760
02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:57,320
old plans to convert a structure and to

3761
02:17:55,800 --> 02:17:59,120
insulate it better to mitigate some of

3762
02:17:57,320 --> 02:18:01,440
that to putting the decibel meter out

3763
02:17:59,120 --> 02:18:02,719
and and all of these conversations

3764
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:03,679
really lead me to believe that she's

3765
02:18:02,719 --> 02:18:06,880
trying to do the right thing for the

3766
02:18:03,679 --> 02:18:10,240
neighbors Um and and just very much in

3767
02:18:06,880 --> 02:18:14,719
support of that. It really is a very

3768
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:17,360
unique situation. It's not a It's not a

3769
02:18:14,719 --> 02:18:19,280
She's not boarding other people's dogs

3770
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:21,240
and operating as a kennel. These are

3771
02:18:19,280 --> 02:18:24,200
These are her own animals. It's not a

3772
02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:25,840
traditional, you know, veterinary animal

3773
02:18:24,200 --> 02:18:27,280
hospital. That's why she doesn't want to

3774
02:18:25,840 --> 02:18:28,760
you know be out there on Michigan Road

3775
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:30,120
with a storefront, you know, for for

3776
02:18:28,760 --> 02:18:31,719
commercial traffic because it's not what

3777
02:18:30,120 --> 02:18:33,719
she's trying to do. She

3778
02:18:31,719 --> 02:18:35,480
specifically does not want commercial,

3779
02:18:33,719 --> 02:18:37,080
you know, commercial traffic. She

3780
02:18:35,480 --> 02:18:38,800
specifically has stated she does not

3781
02:18:37,080 --> 02:18:40,040
want people to know that she's there

3782
02:18:38,800 --> 02:18:41,639
because she doesn't need a whole bunch

3783
02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:43,360
of you know people dropping off a whole

3784
02:18:41,639 --> 02:18:44,800
bunch of animals that she doesn't have

3785
02:18:43,360 --> 02:18:46,040
the capacity to take care of. She just

3786
02:18:44,800 --> 02:18:49,120
wants to operate in the way that she's

3787
02:18:46,040 --> 02:18:50,719
operating. So, to to say well, this

3788
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:52,760
needs to be out on Michigan Road really

3789
02:18:50,719 --> 02:18:53,960
defeats the whole you know, purpose of

3790
02:18:52,760 --> 02:18:55,960
what she's trying to do and that's why I

3791
02:18:53,960 --> 02:18:58,400
think this use variance is is

3792
02:18:55,960 --> 02:19:00,719
appropriate because, you know, use

3793
02:18:58,400 --> 02:19:02,840
variances there for the outlying

3794
02:19:00,719 --> 02:19:05,360
situations, I think. It's not for It's

3795
02:19:02,840 --> 02:19:07,800
not for your It's not for your standard

3796
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:10,960
thing where like a zoning change is is

3797
02:19:07,800 --> 02:19:12,599
is is is is what's in order. And uh

3798
02:19:10,960 --> 02:19:14,360
specifically, I don't want a zoning

3799
02:19:12,599 --> 02:19:16,519
change, you know. I'm okay with what

3800
02:19:14,360 --> 02:19:19,240
she's doing and what she's proposing and

3801
02:19:16,519 --> 02:19:21,040
that's great. And I trust her based upon

3802
02:19:19,240 --> 02:19:22,559
my conversations, you know, that that's

3803
02:19:21,040 --> 02:19:24,240
going to be in keeping with what we want

3804
02:19:22,559 --> 02:19:26,200
in that community

3805
02:19:24,240 --> 02:19:28,679
because the alternative is, you know, if

3806
02:19:26,200 --> 02:19:30,719
she has to end up selling that and it

3807
02:19:28,679 --> 02:19:31,840
does get rezoned and I think this is

3808
02:19:30,719 --> 02:19:32,920
something that, you know, that the

3809
02:19:31,840 --> 02:19:34,519
immediate neighbors should be concerned

3810
02:19:32,920 --> 02:19:36,080
about, too. You know, there's more

3811
02:19:34,519 --> 02:19:38,040
expansion, you know, Bradley Ridge is

3812
02:19:36,080 --> 02:19:39,559
coming up, you know, a right up on us in

3813
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:43,200
terms of that development and more

3814
02:19:39,559 --> 02:19:44,760
development up up 421. And so, if if

3815
02:19:43,200 --> 02:19:46,400
somebody's not keeping that property in

3816
02:19:44,760 --> 02:19:48,160
keeping what it is,

3817
02:19:46,400 --> 02:19:50,080
then it probably is going to end up, you

3818
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:51,760
know, getting rezoned, you know,

3819
02:19:50,080 --> 02:19:53,280
commercial and there's going to be, you

3820
02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:54,600
know, a gas station on that corner or

3821
02:19:53,280 --> 02:19:55,880
some other stuff that you don't want

3822
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:57,200
compared to what, you know, to what

3823
02:19:55,880 --> 02:19:59,640
you're getting now. And that's why we

3824
02:19:57,200 --> 02:20:01,080
don't want, you know, a zoning change.

3825
02:19:59,640 --> 02:20:03,960
You know, we just want her to be able to

3826
02:20:01,080 --> 02:20:05,680
do what she's been doing. Um

3827
02:20:03,960 --> 02:20:08,200
and, you know, I walk by that property

3828
02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:08,880
with my dogs three, four times a week.

3829
02:20:08,200 --> 02:20:10,240
Um

3830
02:20:08,880 --> 02:20:10,960
and

3831
02:20:10,240 --> 02:20:12,280
I

3832
02:20:10,960 --> 02:20:13,400
if there's a noise problem, I'm not

3833
02:20:12,280 --> 02:20:15,760
hearing it.

3834
02:20:13,400 --> 02:20:17,600
Um at my house,

3835
02:20:15,760 --> 02:20:19,280
you know, 1/4 mile away, I hear the

3836
02:20:17,600 --> 02:20:20,720
dump. I hear, you know, I hear that

3837
02:20:19,280 --> 02:20:23,280
equipment there. You know, and they're

3838
02:20:20,720 --> 02:20:26,200
much closer to that. And and and I don't

3839
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:27,400
think you can underestimate like

3840
02:20:26,200 --> 02:20:28,600
what that does to the value of the

3841
02:20:27,400 --> 02:20:29,560
property. I mean, I hear what you're

3842
02:20:28,600 --> 02:20:30,920
saying that you think there's a lot of

3843
02:20:29,560 --> 02:20:32,720
value to it, but if you spend a lot of

3844
02:20:30,920 --> 02:20:34,040
time around there, you know, I wouldn't

3845
02:20:32,720 --> 02:20:36,560
want to buy that property and put it and

3846
02:20:34,040 --> 02:20:38,600
put my house there. You know, so um so

3847
02:20:36,560 --> 02:20:40,200
it is a unique property and it you know,

3848
02:20:38,600 --> 02:20:43,040
in a unique spot that has unique

3849
02:20:40,200 --> 02:20:44,960
considerations with somebody that is a

3850
02:20:43,040 --> 02:20:47,400
trying to be a great neighbor doing very

3851
02:20:44,960 --> 02:20:49,760
unique work that nobody else is doing uh

3852
02:20:47,400 --> 02:20:50,760
that's really helping our community. Um

3853
02:20:49,760 --> 02:20:52,320
and uh

3854
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:53,640
for those reasons, I'm I'm in support of

3855
02:20:52,320 --> 02:20:55,280
it.

3856
02:20:53,640 --> 02:20:56,200
» Thank you so much.

3857
02:20:55,280 --> 02:20:57,440
» Questions?

3858
02:20:56,200 --> 02:20:58,880
» No. Okay.

3859
02:20:57,440 --> 02:21:00,080
» Any questions?

3860
02:20:58,880 --> 02:21:02,560
» Was there anybody else in the audience

3861
02:21:00,080 --> 02:21:04,800
that wanted to speak this evening?

3862
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:04,800
No.

3863
02:21:06,200 --> 02:21:10,400
Any fellow board members, do you have

3864
02:21:07,560 --> 02:21:10,400
any comments?

3865
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:19,560
» The uh

3866
02:21:17,760 --> 02:21:23,000
we're having a lot of lot of fun ones

3867
02:21:19,560 --> 02:21:24,400
here uh recently where you

3868
02:21:23,000 --> 02:21:25,800
have a lot of sympathy for the mission

3869
02:21:24,400 --> 02:21:27,040
and what's trying to be accomplished,

3870
02:21:25,800 --> 02:21:30,360
but it um

3871
02:21:27,040 --> 02:21:33,200
in in my opinion runs a runs a foul of

3872
02:21:30,360 --> 02:21:35,520
the ordinances and expectations of land

3873
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:37,240
use here in Zionsville.

3874
02:21:35,520 --> 02:21:39,600
Um

3875
02:21:37,240 --> 02:21:43,000
it it

3876
02:21:39,600 --> 02:21:46,600
to the extent sympathy helps, if if this

3877
02:21:43,000 --> 02:21:47,560
were uh Dr. Katz's residence,

3878
02:21:46,600 --> 02:21:49,720
I could

3879
02:21:47,560 --> 02:21:52,240
try to work harder to understand how

3880
02:21:49,720 --> 02:21:53,400
ownership of the dogs interplayed in all

3881
02:21:52,240 --> 02:21:54,960
this.

3882
02:21:53,400 --> 02:21:56,040
Um

3883
02:21:54,960 --> 02:21:59,880
Um

3884
02:21:56,040 --> 02:22:01,680
but Dr. Katz doesn't live there and uh

3885
02:21:59,880 --> 02:22:03,600
but there is an operation of some sort

3886
02:22:01,680 --> 02:22:05,480
going out on over there that I I

3887
02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:08,040
understand it may not

3888
02:22:05,480 --> 02:22:10,720
uh financially reward Dr. Katz. It does

3889
02:22:08,040 --> 02:22:12,480
seem like a commercial operation.

3890
02:22:10,720 --> 02:22:14,400
Um

3891
02:22:12,480 --> 02:22:18,040
I could work harder on figuring this out

3892
02:22:14,400 --> 02:22:20,840
if if it were nearer um

3893
02:22:18,040 --> 02:22:20,840
Michigan Road.

3894
02:22:20,880 --> 02:22:25,320
Um

3895
02:22:22,720 --> 02:22:26,880
I kind of still stand by my

3896
02:22:25,320 --> 02:22:29,600
that if we need to change the use of the

3897
02:22:26,880 --> 02:22:32,480
property, maybe that's a question for

3898
02:22:29,600 --> 02:22:36,840
Plan Commission and Town Council.

3899
02:22:32,480 --> 02:22:38,480
Um looking at the at at the factors, uh

3900
02:22:36,840 --> 02:22:40,280
there are a number that

3901
02:22:38,480 --> 02:22:43,400
that even if

3902
02:22:40,280 --> 02:22:44,600
if the BZA is inclined to find a way to

3903
02:22:43,400 --> 02:22:45,960
grant

3904
02:22:44,600 --> 02:22:48,320
a uh

3905
02:22:45,960 --> 02:22:49,880
grant this use variance, I think this

3906
02:22:48,320 --> 02:22:52,080
would have to be continued cuz there

3907
02:22:49,880 --> 02:22:53,800
have to be a lot of work to do on what

3908
02:22:52,080 --> 02:22:56,800
operations and buffers and all these

3909
02:22:53,800 --> 02:22:58,000
things, site plans, all this.

3910
02:22:56,800 --> 02:22:59,640
Um

3911
02:22:58,000 --> 02:23:01,720
but I I'm

3912
02:22:59,640 --> 02:23:03,200
stuck on the um

3913
02:23:01,720 --> 02:23:05,040
that there's something unusual about

3914
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:05,600
this property that it could not be put

3915
02:23:05,040 --> 02:23:06,800
» Mhm.

3916
02:23:05,600 --> 02:23:08,080
» To conforming use.

3917
02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:09,960
» Yeah.

3918
02:23:08,080 --> 02:23:10,960
Yeah, I would I would agree with that

3919
02:23:09,960 --> 02:23:12,960
that

3920
02:23:10,960 --> 02:23:14,680
this is the second time

3921
02:23:12,960 --> 02:23:16,200
um that they've come through. I wasn't

3922
02:23:14,680 --> 02:23:18,440
here for the the the first time. That

3923
02:23:16,200 --> 02:23:20,600
was I think there was three, right?

3924
02:23:18,440 --> 02:23:22,960
Maybe you were here for the that third

3925
02:23:20,600 --> 02:23:27,360
» I know I was here. I don't know

3926
02:23:22,960 --> 02:23:30,800
» But um yeah, not having really any site

3927
02:23:27,360 --> 02:23:32,200
plans, you know, nothing was to scale.

3928
02:23:30,800 --> 02:23:33,720
Um

3929
02:23:32,200 --> 02:23:36,000
somewhat of a shotty rendering, quite

3930
02:23:33,720 --> 02:23:38,320
frankly. Um

3931
02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:40,160
it's really hard to just, you know, put

3932
02:23:38,320 --> 02:23:42,240
a big stamp of approval on this and not

3933
02:23:40,160 --> 02:23:44,200
knowing what that looks like. I agree

3934
02:23:42,240 --> 02:23:45,800
with you that there should be a use

3935
02:23:44,200 --> 02:23:47,960
change.

3936
02:23:45,800 --> 02:23:49,240
And um just because

3937
02:23:47,960 --> 02:23:50,080
» I'll be clear. I didn't say there should

3938
02:23:49,240 --> 02:23:51,400
be a use change

3939
02:23:50,080 --> 02:23:52,720
» I'm saying that's what they should

3940
02:23:51,400 --> 02:23:54,360
That's what they should seek is what I'm

3941
02:23:52,720 --> 02:23:55,600
saying. It makes the most sense. No,

3942
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:56,600
thank you. That's That's what I'm

3943
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:59,160
saying.

3944
02:23:56,600 --> 02:24:00,920
Um,

3945
02:23:59,160 --> 02:24:02,120
and, you know, just because you're on a

3946
02:24:00,920 --> 02:24:03,880
Michigan road doesn't mean anyone can

3947
02:24:02,120 --> 02:24:07,880
walk on your property, especially for

3948
02:24:03,880 --> 02:24:12,000
not advertising, but, um,

3949
02:24:07,880 --> 02:24:14,080
I also think this 5-year thing is, um,

3950
02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:16,040
you know, a long time to build a very

3951
02:24:14,080 --> 02:24:18,440
what seems to be small structure, but,

3952
02:24:16,040 --> 02:24:18,440
um,

3953
02:24:22,640 --> 02:24:26,000
yeah, so I'm having trouble with that.

3954
02:24:27,280 --> 02:24:33,680
I'm stuck in the weeds over

3955
02:24:30,600 --> 02:24:36,680
the variance allowing a veterinary

3956
02:24:33,680 --> 02:24:38,080
animal hospital, but it's not an animal

3957
02:24:36,680 --> 02:24:40,880
hospital.

3958
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:44,000
So, if you approve it to be an animal

3959
02:24:40,880 --> 02:24:46,280
hospital, but admittedly it is not

3960
02:24:44,000 --> 02:24:49,520
operating quite as that,

3961
02:24:46,280 --> 02:24:49,520
then is that

3962
02:24:50,000 --> 02:24:54,400
What are you allowing?

3963
02:24:52,360 --> 02:24:56,120
» I think I can speak to that if there's

3964
02:24:54,400 --> 02:24:58,640
confusion. I'm going to plug my computer

3965
02:24:56,120 --> 02:24:58,640
back in.

3966
02:24:59,400 --> 02:25:03,200
So, we have a definition, uh,

3967
02:25:01,440 --> 02:25:05,000
for what we define as a vet animal

3968
02:25:03,200 --> 02:25:06,600
hospital or clinic, and I'm going to

3969
02:25:05,000 --> 02:25:08,240
hopefully pull it up on the screen if my

3970
02:25:06,600 --> 02:25:09,960
computer will work.

3971
02:25:08,240 --> 02:25:12,000
Um, the one thing I want to point to is

3972
02:25:09,960 --> 02:25:13,600
the the the last statement, right? So,

3973
02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:15,000
I've highlighted it for you, but the

3974
02:25:13,600 --> 02:25:16,520
last statement's the important part that

3975
02:25:15,000 --> 02:25:18,400
temporary boarding

3976
02:25:16,520 --> 02:25:19,600
on the premises as an accessory use is

3977
02:25:18,400 --> 02:25:21,240
allowed.

3978
02:25:19,600 --> 02:25:23,120
So,

3979
02:25:21,240 --> 02:25:25,280
correct me if I'm wrong, but what what

3980
02:25:23,120 --> 02:25:27,640
the petitioner is doing is essentially

3981
02:25:25,280 --> 02:25:29,280
helping sick animals,

3982
02:25:27,640 --> 02:25:30,280
making them better,

3983
02:25:29,280 --> 02:25:31,480
and

3984
02:25:30,280 --> 02:25:33,280
I'm going to use the word that the

3985
02:25:31,480 --> 02:25:35,720
zoning ordinance uses, temporarily

3986
02:25:33,280 --> 02:25:39,720
boarding them until they are then

3987
02:25:35,720 --> 02:25:39,720
adopted at some other location.

3988
02:25:39,800 --> 02:25:44,040
Um, and that's the other thing, just on

3989
02:25:41,480 --> 02:25:47,040
a side note, I know the petitioner wants

3990
02:25:44,040 --> 02:25:48,040
to respond as a rebuttal as the rules

3991
02:25:47,040 --> 02:25:49,640
allow.

3992
02:25:48,040 --> 02:25:50,880
So once we're done with all of this

3993
02:25:49,640 --> 02:25:52,920
» Discussion first, yes.

3994
02:25:50,880 --> 02:25:54,640
» Um so yeah, you'll be allowed.

3995
02:25:52,920 --> 02:25:56,440
Um so I I think if does that answer your

3996
02:25:54,640 --> 02:25:58,320
question as to she's going to be helping

3997
02:25:56,440 --> 02:26:00,120
the sick animals and then temporarily

3998
02:25:58,320 --> 02:26:02,400
boarding them as defined by the vet

3999
02:26:00,120 --> 02:26:03,560
animal hospital or clinic until they are

4000
02:26:02,400 --> 02:26:04,760
then adopted.

4001
02:26:03,560 --> 02:26:06,840
» With that?

4002
02:26:04,760 --> 02:26:09,200
» I believe this would cover

4003
02:26:06,840 --> 02:26:10,640
un- unless this does not cover some

4004
02:26:09,200 --> 02:26:11,640
component of the business that I'm not

4005
02:26:10,640 --> 02:26:15,360
aware of.

4006
02:26:11,640 --> 02:26:16,840
» Okay. And temporary boarding is

4007
02:26:15,360 --> 02:26:18,000
» Good The good news or the bad news,

4008
02:26:16,840 --> 02:26:19,400
however you want to look at it, is our

4009
02:26:18,000 --> 02:26:20,800
zoning ordinance does not define

4010
02:26:19,400 --> 02:26:22,840
boarding.

4011
02:26:20,800 --> 02:26:24,440
Right? So I'm not 100% sure what that

4012
02:26:22,840 --> 02:26:26,720
would be defined as.

4013
02:26:24,440 --> 02:26:28,560
Um and the person I always go to to

4014
02:26:26,720 --> 02:26:30,960
define temporary is Mike Dell. So I'm

4015
02:26:28,560 --> 02:26:32,280
not 100% sure what that would look like.

4016
02:26:30,960 --> 02:26:33,840
Um

4017
02:26:32,280 --> 02:26:36,640
» I think what Jonathan's saying is that

4018
02:26:33,840 --> 02:26:38,920
the the particular use was chosen

4019
02:26:36,640 --> 02:26:40,280
because it would allow at least the

4020
02:26:38,920 --> 02:26:42,520
petitioner believes it would allow allow

4021
02:26:40,280 --> 02:26:43,640
what she already does, the temporary

4022
02:26:42,520 --> 02:26:46,000
boarding,

4023
02:26:43,640 --> 02:26:47,720
and that may be why it was chosen it

4024
02:26:46,000 --> 02:26:50,000
because it would uh

4025
02:26:47,720 --> 02:26:51,560
the umbrella of that one use uh

4026
02:26:50,000 --> 02:26:53,320
veterinary hospital would allow some of

4027
02:26:51,560 --> 02:26:54,520
the other things she wants to do. And I

4028
02:26:53,320 --> 02:26:54,920
think that's that's what you're saying,

4029
02:26:54,520 --> 02:26:56,640
right?

4030
02:26:54,920 --> 02:26:57,640
» Yeah, this is And the other statement

4031
02:26:56,640 --> 02:26:58,880
they made, I think, was a good

4032
02:26:57,640 --> 02:27:01,720
statement. They're trying to fit a

4033
02:26:58,880 --> 02:27:04,680
square peg into a round hole. What they

4034
02:27:01,720 --> 02:27:06,640
do isn't spelled out word for word

4035
02:27:04,680 --> 02:27:08,400
exactly as a use allowed in our use

4036
02:27:06,640 --> 02:27:11,640
table or defined in our use table. And

4037
02:27:08,400 --> 02:27:15,400
so this was the closest

4038
02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:16,720
um defined use that we had that aligned

4039
02:27:15,400 --> 02:27:18,880
with

4040
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:21,080
what she does at her site or at least I

4041
02:27:18,880 --> 02:27:23,200
believe what she does at her site.

4042
02:27:21,080 --> 02:27:25,160
Um So that I hope that answers your

4043
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:27,120
question as far as

4044
02:27:25,160 --> 02:27:29,240
the confusion as to why she's asking for

4045
02:27:27,120 --> 02:27:31,680
a vet hospital. It allows for the

4046
02:27:29,240 --> 02:27:33,880
temporary boarding of the animal until

4047
02:27:31,680 --> 02:27:35,280
it such time it's been adopted to some

4048
02:27:33,880 --> 02:27:37,720
other place.

4049
02:27:35,280 --> 02:27:37,720
» Thank Thank you.

4050
02:27:39,560 --> 02:27:44,520
» Josh, do you have any any comments

4051
02:27:41,120 --> 02:27:46,440
before I bring the petitioner back up?

4052
02:27:44,520 --> 02:27:48,440
» Trying to get myself around the all five

4053
02:27:46,440 --> 02:27:50,560
criteria here. Number one and number

4054
02:27:48,440 --> 02:27:53,000
two, I agree with staff. We don't have

4055
02:27:50,560 --> 02:27:54,480
enough information at this time to

4056
02:27:53,000 --> 02:27:56,200
to determine

4057
02:27:54,480 --> 02:27:59,120
uh

4058
02:27:56,200 --> 02:28:01,120
number uh three, the the need for the

4059
02:27:59,120 --> 02:28:03,240
variance derives from some condition

4060
02:28:01,120 --> 02:28:05,360
particular to the property involved. I

4061
02:28:03,240 --> 02:28:07,360
will say that having a landfill across

4062
02:28:05,360 --> 02:28:09,480
the street and being a super fund site

4063
02:28:07,360 --> 02:28:11,440
would get I would disagree with staff on

4064
02:28:09,480 --> 02:28:13,840
that and give them that one.

4065
02:28:11,440 --> 02:28:13,840
Um

4066
02:28:14,600 --> 02:28:19,960
I'm having trouble with uh hardship and

4067
02:28:17,960 --> 02:28:22,760
um

4068
02:28:19,960 --> 02:28:23,720
comp plan I'm still struggling with. I

4069
02:28:22,760 --> 02:28:26,640
mean

4070
02:28:23,720 --> 02:28:28,680
I Jim mentioned a continuance. Um I

4071
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:29,880
would be supportive of that. Maybe try

4072
02:28:28,680 --> 02:28:32,360
to get them to

4073
02:28:29,880 --> 02:28:34,400
firm up one and two for us a little bit

4074
02:28:32,360 --> 02:28:35,400
so that staff can give us a decision on

4075
02:28:34,400 --> 02:28:36,680
it.

4076
02:28:35,400 --> 02:28:38,360
Um

4077
02:28:36,680 --> 02:28:40,520
that's where I stand on it right now.

4078
02:28:38,360 --> 02:28:42,160
Essentially, I look at it as it's it's

4079
02:28:40,520 --> 02:28:43,400
going to be a private veterinary

4080
02:28:42,160 --> 02:28:44,960
hospital.

4081
02:28:43,400 --> 02:28:46,120
It's not it doesn't sound like it's

4082
02:28:44,960 --> 02:28:48,760
going to be public. It's going to be a

4083
02:28:46,120 --> 02:28:50,360
private veterinary hospital.

4084
02:28:48,760 --> 02:28:51,400
Um

4085
02:28:50,360 --> 02:28:57,000
» In R2 though.

4086
02:28:51,400 --> 02:28:57,000
» It and exactly, in R2. So, um

4087
02:28:57,640 --> 02:29:02,320
if I had to make a decision right now, I

4088
02:28:59,760 --> 02:29:03,800
I can't fill all five criteria.

4089
02:29:02,320 --> 02:29:05,120
So.

4090
02:29:03,800 --> 02:29:05,600
» Ask a question.

4091
02:29:05,120 --> 02:29:07,280
» Sure.

4092
02:29:05,600 --> 02:29:08,600
» Um

4093
02:29:07,280 --> 02:29:09,920
just to give better guidance to the

4094
02:29:08,600 --> 02:29:12,520
petitioner, right? So, one of the

4095
02:29:09,920 --> 02:29:13,720
concerns is buffering. And I misspoke

4096
02:29:12,520 --> 02:29:15,240
when I was giving the staff report

4097
02:29:13,720 --> 02:29:16,960
saying it was AG. It's actually R2 to

4098
02:29:15,240 --> 02:29:19,080
R2, right?

4099
02:29:16,960 --> 02:29:20,560
Which if you I thought my computer was

4100
02:29:19,080 --> 02:29:22,160
up. It's not.

4101
02:29:20,560 --> 02:29:26,400
If you look, for example, one of the

4102
02:29:22,160 --> 02:29:26,400
concerns is um

4103
02:29:26,480 --> 02:29:30,480
All right, this was the most recent.

4104
02:29:28,720 --> 02:29:32,440
Maybe I got the wrong iteration of the

4105
02:29:30,480 --> 02:29:34,200
commitments, but insert minimum standard

4106
02:29:32,440 --> 02:29:36,320
of trees needed in buffer. That's what I

4107
02:29:34,200 --> 02:29:38,240
had put on as the exhibit. And my

4108
02:29:36,320 --> 02:29:41,200
concern, you know, as it's as it relates

4109
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:43,000
to that, if you look at R2 to R2,

4110
02:29:41,200 --> 02:29:45,240
buffer yard B,

4111
02:29:43,000 --> 02:29:47,720
so it's entirely possible

4112
02:29:45,240 --> 02:29:50,680
and allowed, right, by right,

4113
02:29:47,720 --> 02:29:52,480
to have a 10-ft worth of grass

4114
02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:53,520
and then one tree and two understory

4115
02:29:52,480 --> 02:29:54,520
trees.

4116
02:29:53,520 --> 02:29:56,840
And the question from the planning

4117
02:29:54,520 --> 02:29:59,240
committee or from the BZA, my concern

4118
02:29:56,840 --> 02:30:01,080
was is that is that enough?

4119
02:29:59,240 --> 02:30:02,840
Right? Are you okay with this

4120
02:30:01,080 --> 02:30:04,000
development going in with just 10-ft of

4121
02:30:02,840 --> 02:30:06,440
grass

4122
02:30:04,000 --> 02:30:07,360
and a total of three trees

4123
02:30:06,440 --> 02:30:10,120
every

4124
02:30:07,360 --> 02:30:11,520
so many feet, every 100 linear feet?

4125
02:30:10,120 --> 02:30:12,840
Which if that's the standard, I mean,

4126
02:30:11,520 --> 02:30:14,040
you look at the site plan that's

4127
02:30:12,840 --> 02:30:15,680
submitted,

4128
02:30:14,040 --> 02:30:17,560
it's not to scale, obviously, but I

4129
02:30:15,680 --> 02:30:20,760
mean, you can see the aerial. It's

4130
02:30:17,560 --> 02:30:22,520
likely they got enough existing trees to

4131
02:30:20,760 --> 02:30:24,360
meet that standard.

4132
02:30:22,520 --> 02:30:26,480
Is that enough buffer?

4133
02:30:24,360 --> 02:30:28,160
You know, and so if we're going to

4134
02:30:26,480 --> 02:30:30,680
continue this or if we're going to try

4135
02:30:28,160 --> 02:30:33,520
to give additional guidance, what more

4136
02:30:30,680 --> 02:30:35,200
would we like to see

4137
02:30:33,520 --> 02:30:35,640
in addition to a site plan

4138
02:30:35,200 --> 02:30:37,000
» Jonathan, the

4139
02:30:35,640 --> 02:30:38,800
» That would that would

4140
02:30:37,000 --> 02:30:40,800
» Yeah, that retention pond's not there

4141
02:30:38,800 --> 02:30:42,480
currently, right? That's a that's just

4142
02:30:40,800 --> 02:30:43,600
part of this rendering.

4143
02:30:42,480 --> 02:30:45,240
» Part of the rendering.

4144
02:30:43,600 --> 02:30:46,280
» This was the old one. I had sent you a

4145
02:30:45,240 --> 02:30:48,960
new one.

4146
02:30:46,280 --> 02:30:52,800
» And I apologize.

4147
02:30:48,960 --> 02:30:52,800
Let me see if I can get the new one.

4148
02:30:55,440 --> 02:30:59,920
» But it's essentially, yeah, it looks

4149
02:30:57,200 --> 02:30:59,920
like that now.

4150
02:31:04,920 --> 02:31:08,840
I don't see I didn't see another one on

4151
02:31:06,320 --> 02:31:10,000
there that I in our I went through I

4152
02:31:08,840 --> 02:31:11,720
mean, I could have missed it, I guess,

4153
02:31:10,000 --> 02:31:12,760
but

4154
02:31:11,720 --> 02:31:15,720
that was the only site

4155
02:31:12,760 --> 02:31:18,080
» To apologize if there was one submitted.

4156
02:31:15,720 --> 02:31:22,520
I believed I got everything online, but

4157
02:31:18,080 --> 02:31:22,520
obviously I did not, if I didn't.

4158
02:31:23,080 --> 02:31:26,360
Let me disconnect real quick.

4159
02:31:53,160 --> 02:31:57,400
» Um if a petitioner wants to come up and

4160
02:31:55,640 --> 02:32:00,040
have her rebuttal wait, Jonathan looks

4161
02:31:57,400 --> 02:32:00,040
for that.

4162
02:32:10,160 --> 02:32:14,680
So, the first thing I wanted to bring up

4163
02:32:11,640 --> 02:32:16,320
is we actually don't have two um plots

4164
02:32:14,680 --> 02:32:17,120
of land, which I was actually made aware

4165
02:32:16,320 --> 02:32:20,880
of

4166
02:32:17,120 --> 02:32:23,120
uh by Jonathan um and I believe uh

4167
02:32:20,880 --> 02:32:25,720
during one of our meetings. Um it's

4168
02:32:23,120 --> 02:32:27,520
actually one uh plot of land that's

4169
02:32:25,720 --> 02:32:28,160
separated by

4170
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:32,600
» Section line.

4171
02:32:28,160 --> 02:32:33,680
» Thank you. Um but it's still just one

4172
02:32:32,600 --> 02:32:36,680
uh

4173
02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:38,360
one plot of land. So, we don't have the

4174
02:32:36,680 --> 02:32:41,160
two. [clears throat] Um I thought we

4175
02:32:38,360 --> 02:32:43,560
did, too, honestly, but we don't. Uh

4176
02:32:41,160 --> 02:32:47,560
it's just one. Um so, I wanted to bring

4177
02:32:43,560 --> 02:32:50,880
that up. Uh one of the other reasons um

4178
02:32:47,560 --> 02:32:52,760
I uh chose to live in Zionsville was

4179
02:32:50,880 --> 02:32:55,040
there wasn't a limit of how many dogs

4180
02:32:52,760 --> 02:32:58,000
you could have and own on your property.

4181
02:32:55,040 --> 02:33:02,200
Um same for my personal home. Uh I live

4182
02:32:58,000 --> 02:33:06,160
at uh in the village. Um and so, um that

4183
02:33:02,200 --> 02:33:08,520
is one of the reasons that again, uh we

4184
02:33:06,160 --> 02:33:10,760
don't fit into any

4185
02:33:08,520 --> 02:33:14,040
um designation that's currently

4186
02:33:10,760 --> 02:33:16,400
uh out there for us. Um

4187
02:33:14,040 --> 02:33:18,000
we were designated a kennel at the last

4188
02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:20,560
one. I still don't believe we fit the

4189
02:33:18,000 --> 02:33:22,760
criteria for a kennel. I own the dogs.

4190
02:33:20,560 --> 02:33:25,920
In order to operate a kennel, somebody

4191
02:33:22,760 --> 02:33:28,080
else has to own them and you watch them.

4192
02:33:25,920 --> 02:33:30,760
Um and that's uh

4193
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:32,400
that's not what we do. Uh they're my

4194
02:33:30,760 --> 02:33:35,640
dogs even if it's just for a certain

4195
02:33:32,400 --> 02:33:37,680
amount of time. I I heard somebody say

4196
02:33:35,640 --> 02:33:39,440
uh if I lived on the property, it'd be a

4197
02:33:37,680 --> 02:33:40,840
little bit different. I don't

4198
02:33:39,440 --> 02:33:43,160
understand, you know, I guess the

4199
02:33:40,840 --> 02:33:46,160
distinction there. Um

4200
02:33:43,160 --> 02:33:48,840
it's still my property, my animals.

4201
02:33:46,160 --> 02:33:51,880
Um and I have, you know, animals on my

4202
02:33:48,840 --> 02:33:53,480
other property, too. Um but also which I

4203
02:33:51,880 --> 02:33:54,920
pay people to to help take care of them

4204
02:33:53,480 --> 02:33:56,720
cuz like I said, I have seven different

4205
02:33:54,920 --> 02:33:58,400
businesses. I'm running around all over

4206
02:33:56,720 --> 02:33:59,400
the place all the time. I'm not always

4207
02:33:58,400 --> 02:34:02,480
home.

4208
02:33:59,400 --> 02:34:05,840
Um but I make it a point to be on site

4209
02:34:02,480 --> 02:34:08,600
here at this um location every day. Um

4210
02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:11,080
as Nick said, I'm usually out there at

4211
02:34:08,600 --> 02:34:13,160
5:30, 6:00 a.m. and I end up there at

4212
02:34:11,080 --> 02:34:15,760
night, too, after I finish um making

4213
02:34:13,160 --> 02:34:18,160
sure that I can see every animal and

4214
02:34:15,760 --> 02:34:19,280
make sure everybody's taken care of, so.

4215
02:34:18,160 --> 02:34:21,400
Um

4216
02:34:19,280 --> 02:34:22,720
is there anything else to add?

4217
02:34:21,400 --> 02:34:25,200
» Um

4218
02:34:22,720 --> 02:34:27,720
you know, the the uh

4219
02:34:25,200 --> 02:34:28,840
proximity to Michigan Road, not only is

4220
02:34:27,720 --> 02:34:30,280
it

4221
02:34:28,840 --> 02:34:31,600
putting it right on Michigan Road, not

4222
02:34:30,280 --> 02:34:33,640
only would that be contrary to our

4223
02:34:31,600 --> 02:34:36,120
mission, but it would be detrimental to

4224
02:34:33,640 --> 02:34:37,680
the health of the dogs as the

4225
02:34:36,120 --> 02:34:39,960
remonstrator said, there's all the

4226
02:34:37,680 --> 02:34:42,480
traffic and noise there for recovering

4227
02:34:39,960 --> 02:34:44,840
animals, that would not be a good use.

4228
02:34:42,480 --> 02:34:47,560
And in the end, you've got this property

4229
02:34:44,840 --> 02:34:50,000
that's got a lot of unique features,

4230
02:34:47,560 --> 02:34:52,240
a unique history and it's the one two

4231
02:34:50,000 --> 02:34:53,920
punch of the fire station and the

4232
02:34:52,240 --> 02:34:56,760
landfill

4233
02:34:53,920 --> 02:34:58,360
that really put a stress on the use of

4234
02:34:56,760 --> 02:35:01,560
this property

4235
02:34:58,360 --> 02:35:04,440
and this use variance is a really good

4236
02:35:01,560 --> 02:35:05,920
tool to make a good use that's already

4237
02:35:04,440 --> 02:35:08,080
occurring there

4238
02:35:05,920 --> 02:35:10,000
and to allow it to continue for the

4239
02:35:08,080 --> 02:35:11,800
benefit of the community.

4240
02:35:10,000 --> 02:35:14,600
I would say that

4241
02:35:11,800 --> 02:35:17,840
if more specific renderings and site

4242
02:35:14,600 --> 02:35:18,800
plans would be beneficial to the staff

4243
02:35:17,840 --> 02:35:20,320
and to the board for their

4244
02:35:18,800 --> 02:35:22,840
consideration.

4245
02:35:20,320 --> 02:35:24,640
We are fine with

4246
02:35:22,840 --> 02:35:26,680
submitting that coming back next month

4247
02:35:24,640 --> 02:35:28,120
and giving that a submission with more

4248
02:35:26,680 --> 02:35:30,320
details.

4249
02:35:28,120 --> 02:35:32,200
I think the the commitments that that

4250
02:35:30,320 --> 02:35:35,760
Dr. Katz has given

4251
02:35:32,200 --> 02:35:38,160
buffer yard B privacy

4252
02:35:35,760 --> 02:35:40,880
fencing, the hours of operation. I would

4253
02:35:38,160 --> 02:35:43,200
think that would be a good reassurance

4254
02:35:40,880 --> 02:35:45,240
for the board that the operations are

4255
02:35:43,200 --> 02:35:47,880
not going to be disruptive. But if

4256
02:35:45,240 --> 02:35:50,360
additional details would be helpful or

4257
02:35:47,880 --> 02:35:52,200
necessary for your approval, then that's

4258
02:35:50,360 --> 02:35:52,760
something we're definitely in support

4259
02:35:52,200 --> 02:35:54,800
of.

4260
02:35:52,760 --> 02:35:57,400
» And I just want to remind you that right

4261
02:35:54,800 --> 02:35:59,520
now we're at ambient noise levels. And

4262
02:35:57,400 --> 02:36:02,680
that's without everything that we are

4263
02:35:59,520 --> 02:36:06,280
already committing to. And we're at

4264
02:36:02,680 --> 02:36:09,200
proven fact ambient noise levels of this

4265
02:36:06,280 --> 02:36:12,000
running nonstop for over two months and

4266
02:36:09,200 --> 02:36:13,080
we've never hit over 80 decibels.

4267
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:16,440
Um

4268
02:36:13,080 --> 02:36:19,120
I just you know, for me even that's

4269
02:36:16,440 --> 02:36:21,320
without what we're already proposing and

4270
02:36:19,120 --> 02:36:23,400
further away. So

4271
02:36:21,320 --> 02:36:25,560
I don't want to be a nuisance to

4272
02:36:23,400 --> 02:36:27,960
anybody. I want to just be able to have

4273
02:36:25,560 --> 02:36:29,240
my dogs there and do it in a way that's

4274
02:36:27,960 --> 02:36:30,840
responsible and it respects my

4275
02:36:29,240 --> 02:36:32,640
neighbors.

4276
02:36:30,840 --> 02:36:36,120
And again, I don't want anybody else's

4277
02:36:32,640 --> 02:36:36,120
animals there. I just want mine.

4278
02:36:36,840 --> 02:36:40,960
Thank you.

4279
02:36:38,840 --> 02:36:42,680
» You know, if you I'll throw out

4280
02:36:40,960 --> 02:36:45,000
something else and that is

4281
02:36:42,680 --> 02:36:46,840
if you um

4282
02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:49,200
wanted to approve it as an animal

4283
02:36:46,840 --> 02:36:51,240
hospital but but can put conditions on

4284
02:36:49,200 --> 02:36:53,920
which you can that says no retail

4285
02:36:51,240 --> 02:36:55,480
operations, no public facing operations,

4286
02:36:53,920 --> 02:36:57,280
no signage.

4287
02:36:55,480 --> 02:36:59,440
That is totally fine. That would be a

4288
02:36:57,280 --> 02:37:00,680
closer definition of what is actually

4289
02:36:59,440 --> 02:37:03,760
going on.

4290
02:37:00,680 --> 02:37:07,360
Because it can you have the power to

4291
02:37:03,760 --> 02:37:09,520
limit what's granted and not open it up

4292
02:37:07,360 --> 02:37:11,840
to an animal hospital that could you

4293
02:37:09,520 --> 02:37:12,760
know, throw open open doors to anyone.

4294
02:37:11,840 --> 02:37:15,440
» And we've already made those

4295
02:37:12,760 --> 02:37:15,440
commitments.

4296
02:37:16,520 --> 02:37:19,400
» Thank you.

4297
02:37:17,360 --> 02:37:21,280
» I ask one question about the decibels,

4298
02:37:19,400 --> 02:37:24,000
about that. I I think you said that

4299
02:37:21,280 --> 02:37:26,440
after the last time that you were here,

4300
02:37:24,000 --> 02:37:29,400
um you had that installed. Was that

4301
02:37:26,440 --> 02:37:29,800
after you got rid of the adult dogs?

4302
02:37:29,400 --> 02:37:32,320
» Uh

4303
02:37:29,800 --> 02:37:33,960
» Or were they still there to capture that

4304
02:37:32,320 --> 02:37:34,880
what it was like with the adult dogs

4305
02:37:33,960 --> 02:37:35,760
there?

4306
02:37:34,880 --> 02:37:39,240
Or was that what

4307
02:37:35,760 --> 02:37:41,760
» After, um but with that we wouldn't have

4308
02:37:39,240 --> 02:37:44,080
had any adult dogs near their property

4309
02:37:41,760 --> 02:37:46,200
anyways. That building that they're

4310
02:37:44,080 --> 02:37:48,880
talking about, that's right by their um

4311
02:37:46,200 --> 02:37:50,200
house, has not been in use since October

4312
02:37:48,880 --> 02:37:50,760
of last year.

4313
02:37:50,200 --> 02:37:53,720
» Okay. But

4314
02:37:50,760 --> 02:37:56,000
» It is recently in use with two llamas.

4315
02:37:53,720 --> 02:37:58,560
» Okay.

4316
02:37:56,000 --> 02:38:00,520
But the capturing of the decibels is not

4317
02:37:58,560 --> 02:38:03,440
exactly the same situation that they

4318
02:38:00,520 --> 02:38:05,160
were complaining about. It's It's a It's

4319
02:38:03,440 --> 02:38:06,560
a different situation with younger

4320
02:38:05,160 --> 02:38:08,200
animals.

4321
02:38:06,560 --> 02:38:08,920
» Correct, and arguably louder.

4322
02:38:08,200 --> 02:38:11,240
» Okay.

4323
02:38:08,920 --> 02:38:11,240
» Yeah.

4324
02:38:11,320 --> 02:38:12,760
» Thank you. I appreciate it.

4325
02:38:12,280 --> 02:38:15,080
» Thank you.

4326
02:38:12,760 --> 02:38:15,080
» Thank you.

4327
02:38:15,280 --> 02:38:17,480
» I can show you the updated renderings.

4328
02:38:17,040 --> 02:38:19,560
» Okay.

4329
02:38:17,480 --> 02:38:22,920
» I I apologize. I saw where you sent them

4330
02:38:19,560 --> 02:38:25,120
on Friday. And uh it has been a very

4331
02:38:22,920 --> 02:38:27,920
busy week. So, I found the most recent

4332
02:38:25,120 --> 02:38:29,760
revision that I got from last Friday.

4333
02:38:27,920 --> 02:38:31,240
Um I did not find anything since then.

4334
02:38:29,760 --> 02:38:32,600
So, I'm hoping this is the most recent

4335
02:38:31,240 --> 02:38:34,000
one. Okay.

4336
02:38:32,600 --> 02:38:37,200
» And these are the ones that are not to

4337
02:38:34,000 --> 02:38:37,200
scale cuz then you these

4338
02:38:38,320 --> 02:38:42,080
» Other version is.

4339
02:38:40,000 --> 02:38:43,640
» The one right next

4340
02:38:42,080 --> 02:38:45,080
Right. That would That would be That

4341
02:38:43,640 --> 02:38:46,480
would be to scale.

4342
02:38:45,080 --> 02:38:47,840
» So, this one would be to scale.

4343
02:38:46,480 --> 02:38:51,440
» No building, but that would show what

4344
02:38:47,840 --> 02:38:51,440
the the footprint would be.

4345
02:38:54,280 --> 02:38:56,600
» There.

4346
02:38:59,120 --> 02:39:05,280
And I did have an opportunity to take a

4347
02:39:01,160 --> 02:39:07,160
look at the parking. Um

4348
02:39:05,280 --> 02:39:08,480
again, from a parking

4349
02:39:07,160 --> 02:39:10,240
from a buffering standpoint, the

4350
02:39:08,480 --> 02:39:12,720
question is we know the minimum buffer

4351
02:39:10,240 --> 02:39:14,600
requirement, which is buffer yard B.

4352
02:39:12,720 --> 02:39:15,960
Um

4353
02:39:14,600 --> 02:39:17,160
we know all the applicable development

4354
02:39:15,960 --> 02:39:18,320
standards,

4355
02:39:17,160 --> 02:39:19,640
and they're going to have to adhere to

4356
02:39:18,320 --> 02:39:23,040
them prior to approval of the

4357
02:39:19,640 --> 02:39:24,480
development plan. So, conceptually,

4358
02:39:23,040 --> 02:39:25,320
um

4359
02:39:24,480 --> 02:39:27,720
you know,

4360
02:39:25,320 --> 02:39:30,200
conceptually, I don't I'm not sure what

4361
02:39:27,720 --> 02:39:31,760
what additional things you would change.

4362
02:39:30,200 --> 02:39:33,040
I I think this is

4363
02:39:31,760 --> 02:39:36,680
pretty set. The parking would be

4364
02:39:33,040 --> 02:39:39,560
compliant. Um

4365
02:39:36,680 --> 02:39:41,640
the setbacks I I can't speak to the

4366
02:39:39,560 --> 02:39:43,120
setbacks for a kennel,

4367
02:39:41,640 --> 02:39:44,880
right? What I can speak to is the

4368
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:47,040
setback requirements for commercial,

4369
02:39:44,880 --> 02:39:48,120
industrial, or non-residential uses,

4370
02:39:47,040 --> 02:39:49,720
right? Which is what the zoning

4371
02:39:48,120 --> 02:39:50,960
ordinance has.

4372
02:39:49,720 --> 02:39:53,720
Um

4373
02:39:50,960 --> 02:39:55,520
and this property is R2.

4374
02:39:53,720 --> 02:40:00,680
And, you know, you see the standards

4375
02:39:55,520 --> 02:40:02,680
here. They're not marked, right? But,

4376
02:40:00,680 --> 02:40:05,320
assuming they meet the standards, the

4377
02:40:02,680 --> 02:40:06,520
setbacks would be fine, right?

4378
02:40:05,320 --> 02:40:08,920
Um

4379
02:40:06,520 --> 02:40:10,280
it looks obviously more than 10 ft and

4380
02:40:08,920 --> 02:40:13,360
20 ft

4381
02:40:10,280 --> 02:40:13,360
from the property lines.

4382
02:40:13,800 --> 02:40:17,680
I guess lighting,

4383
02:40:15,920 --> 02:40:18,840
lighting and noise

4384
02:40:17,680 --> 02:40:21,480
would be the things that we haven't

4385
02:40:18,840 --> 02:40:21,480
addressed.

4386
02:40:21,560 --> 02:40:24,000
But,

4387
02:40:24,240 --> 02:40:27,200
» So,

4388
02:40:25,200 --> 02:40:29,640
when we talk about buffer lines, we're

4389
02:40:27,200 --> 02:40:33,480
talking about buffering on the 5-acre

4390
02:40:29,640 --> 02:40:35,080
parcel, not the overall parcel, correct?

4391
02:40:33,480 --> 02:40:36,760
» That that Well, yeah, that's correct. It

4392
02:40:35,080 --> 02:40:39,200
would be for the 5-acre site.

4393
02:40:36,760 --> 02:40:39,200
» Okay.

4394
02:40:45,560 --> 02:40:49,880
No, it noise is still concern of mine.

4395
02:40:48,040 --> 02:40:52,960
Um

4396
02:40:49,880 --> 02:40:54,560
I respect the decibel levels of 70. Uh

4397
02:40:52,960 --> 02:40:56,360
we've heard that number before thrown

4398
02:40:54,560 --> 02:40:59,600
out there as an ambient

4399
02:40:56,360 --> 02:41:01,840
noise level, but on a foggy morning,

4400
02:40:59,600 --> 02:41:03,720
I can you know, you can hear where I'm

4401
02:41:01,840 --> 02:41:05,840
at, I can hear a donkey that's a mile

4402
02:41:03,720 --> 02:41:06,840
and a half way from my house.

4403
02:41:05,840 --> 02:41:08,640
Um

4404
02:41:06,840 --> 02:41:11,320
» And that's why acoustical engineers have

4405
02:41:08,640 --> 02:41:13,960
jobs. You know, you can create buildings

4406
02:41:11,320 --> 02:41:16,360
that and kennels that you cannot hear

4407
02:41:13,960 --> 02:41:17,640
dogs from inside. Which means they would

4408
02:41:16,360 --> 02:41:19,240
not hear Michigan Road if they were

4409
02:41:17,640 --> 02:41:21,320
closer.

4410
02:41:19,240 --> 02:41:23,640
And no one else would hear the dogs as

4411
02:41:21,320 --> 02:41:25,960
well. So, I mean

4412
02:41:23,640 --> 02:41:28,160
people get paid to do this. I know many

4413
02:41:25,960 --> 02:41:31,000
acoustical engineers that could help

4414
02:41:28,160 --> 02:41:33,680
from that standpoint, but I I did noise.

4415
02:41:31,000 --> 02:41:37,480
I agree lighting. And hours of operation

4416
02:41:33,680 --> 02:41:37,480
when the dogs are out.

4417
02:41:37,960 --> 02:41:43,760
Josh, what was else on your list?

4418
02:41:40,560 --> 02:41:45,560
» That's pretty much Right. Jonathan, you

4419
02:41:43,760 --> 02:41:49,177
asked what type of a

4420
02:41:45,560 --> 02:41:50,640
dish on the 5 acres. I don't I I

4421
02:41:49,177 --> 02:41:52,880
» [clears throat]

4422
02:41:50,640 --> 02:41:54,040
» Yeah, it's a limited with just being 5

4423
02:41:52,880 --> 02:41:56,680
acres. I don't know if you can get

4424
02:41:54,040 --> 02:41:58,760
enough buffering in there to try to

4425
02:41:56,680 --> 02:42:00,680
dampen the noise.

4426
02:41:58,760 --> 02:42:03,240
Um

4427
02:42:00,680 --> 02:42:05,640
I'm I'm I'm only looking at the western

4428
02:42:03,240 --> 02:42:09,160
property that backs up to the Nelson's

4429
02:42:05,640 --> 02:42:10,120
property or that area through there. So,

4430
02:42:09,160 --> 02:42:12,760
I don't think you'll have any noise

4431
02:42:10,120 --> 02:42:15,720
concerns to the south,

4432
02:42:12,760 --> 02:42:16,920
to the to the east, or to the north.

4433
02:42:15,720 --> 02:42:20,760
Um

4434
02:42:16,920 --> 02:42:22,080
but it's that side to the west. I I

4435
02:42:20,760 --> 02:42:23,960
There's people make more money than me

4436
02:42:22,080 --> 02:42:25,280
can figure this out, but I mean just

4437
02:42:23,960 --> 02:42:27,040
looking at it, I would say on the

4438
02:42:25,280 --> 02:42:29,160
overall parcel,

4439
02:42:27,040 --> 02:42:32,600
you'd have to have a lot more

4440
02:42:29,160 --> 02:42:36,920
some sort of acoustical buffering.

4441
02:42:32,600 --> 02:42:36,920
But like I said, I I'm still

4442
02:42:37,000 --> 02:42:41,120
I still struggle with with several of

4443
02:42:38,880 --> 02:42:42,880
the criteria.

4444
02:42:41,120 --> 02:42:44,600
Um

4445
02:42:42,880 --> 02:42:45,760
and I don't know on on one and two

4446
02:42:44,600 --> 02:42:48,440
because

4447
02:42:45,760 --> 02:42:50,600
if you can't come up with a

4448
02:42:48,440 --> 02:42:53,680
if staff can't determine it, I I sure

4449
02:42:50,600 --> 02:42:53,680
can't. So.

4450
02:43:03,360 --> 02:43:07,640
» Any other thoughts

4451
02:43:04,880 --> 02:43:07,640
from the board?

4452
02:43:08,880 --> 02:43:12,200
» My mind remains unchanged.

4453
02:43:10,000 --> 02:43:12,200
» Mhm.

4454
02:43:15,480 --> 02:43:21,160
Um

4455
02:43:16,800 --> 02:43:23,400
I I feel similarly that I, you know,

4456
02:43:21,160 --> 02:43:24,960
I guess

4457
02:43:23,400 --> 02:43:26,520
going back to the

4458
02:43:24,960 --> 02:43:27,760
five points,

4459
02:43:26,520 --> 02:43:29,760
um

4460
02:43:27,760 --> 02:43:33,000
that's

4461
02:43:29,760 --> 02:43:34,920
the last ones I'll I'll give you.

4462
02:43:33,000 --> 02:43:35,942
The sanitary side, okay. I'll give it to

4463
02:43:34,920 --> 02:43:37,800
you.

4464
02:43:35,942 --> 02:43:39,280
» [laughter]

4465
02:43:37,800 --> 02:43:40,880
» You lived here in the '80s. You know

4466
02:43:39,280 --> 02:43:43,200
there was so much history about that

4467
02:43:40,880 --> 02:43:45,040
place.

4468
02:43:43,200 --> 02:43:46,480
» Um

4469
02:43:45,040 --> 02:43:49,320
but um

4470
02:43:46,480 --> 02:43:49,320
yeah, I think

4471
02:43:50,280 --> 02:43:55,040
I agree with Jim.

4472
02:43:52,920 --> 02:43:55,040
» I

4473
02:43:55,720 --> 02:44:00,600
I would make a motion to deny it,

4474
02:43:58,320 --> 02:44:03,240
but if

4475
02:44:00,600 --> 02:44:04,520
others feel that more information is

4476
02:44:03,240 --> 02:44:06,320
necessary for them to make a

4477
02:44:04,520 --> 02:44:07,560
determination across the factors, I

4478
02:44:06,320 --> 02:44:10,280
don't want to deny them that

4479
02:44:07,560 --> 02:44:10,280
opportunity.

4480
02:44:13,320 --> 02:44:16,480
» I think it's

4481
02:44:14,920 --> 02:44:17,480
especially if,

4482
02:44:16,480 --> 02:44:19,360
you know,

4483
02:44:17,480 --> 02:44:20,960
they're able to have a conversation with

4484
02:44:19,360 --> 02:44:22,240
the Nelsons, too, and maybe that there's

4485
02:44:20,960 --> 02:44:24,280
a

4486
02:44:22,240 --> 02:44:26,480
you know,

4487
02:44:24,280 --> 02:44:28,560
additional factors that they've tried to

4488
02:44:26,480 --> 02:44:29,760
check some things off their list on what

4489
02:44:28,560 --> 02:44:33,360
would help.

4490
02:44:29,760 --> 02:44:33,360
That would definitely help me, so.

4491
02:44:34,160 --> 02:44:37,280
» Well, you are permitted to make a

4492
02:44:35,120 --> 02:44:37,280
motion.

4493
02:44:42,600 --> 02:44:48,960
» I want to understand if everybody feels

4494
02:44:46,800 --> 02:44:52,040
Do you want me to make a motion?

4495
02:44:48,960 --> 02:44:52,040
» I Yeah, I mean, I

4496
02:44:52,760 --> 02:44:56,160
Maybe to help in the decision-making,

4497
02:44:54,480 --> 02:44:56,840
can I ask the petitioner a question, if

4498
02:44:56,160 --> 02:44:57,640
you don't mind?

4499
02:44:56,840 --> 02:44:59,840
» Mr. Whitehead, yes.

4500
02:44:57,640 --> 02:45:02,000
» Um you may not know the answer to this,

4501
02:44:59,840 --> 02:45:04,320
but if this was continued, would you be

4502
02:45:02,000 --> 02:45:06,280
willing to submit like a photometric and

4503
02:45:04,320 --> 02:45:07,760
a landscape plan? I know there would be

4504
02:45:06,280 --> 02:45:09,560
money that would have to go into getting

4505
02:45:07,760 --> 02:45:10,880
those drafted.

4506
02:45:09,560 --> 02:45:12,360
I mean, those are those are things that

4507
02:45:10,880 --> 02:45:14,320
are required as part of your planning

4508
02:45:12,360 --> 02:45:16,040
commission DP submittal.

4509
02:45:14,320 --> 02:45:17,920
But if we had a landscape plan that kind

4510
02:45:16,040 --> 02:45:20,440
of showed the buffering and the setbacks

4511
02:45:17,920 --> 02:45:22,680
and the noise mitigation elements of it,

4512
02:45:20,440 --> 02:45:25,400
and we had a lighting plan that

4513
02:45:22,680 --> 02:45:27,920
essentially showed that the lighting was

4514
02:45:25,400 --> 02:45:29,400
shielded and not

4515
02:45:27,920 --> 02:45:30,680
crossing over into the neighboring

4516
02:45:29,400 --> 02:45:31,720
properties.

4517
02:45:30,680 --> 02:45:33,880
Um

4518
02:45:31,720 --> 02:45:36,520
I think that would help

4519
02:45:33,880 --> 02:45:38,200
in the determination of number one and

4520
02:45:36,520 --> 02:45:39,400
number two, which would be the impact on

4521
02:45:38,200 --> 02:45:40,520
the community and the impact on the

4522
02:45:39,400 --> 02:45:41,760
property owners, the neighboring

4523
02:45:40,520 --> 02:45:43,840
property owners.

4524
02:45:41,760 --> 02:45:45,160
Um and if you're willing to do that,

4525
02:45:43,840 --> 02:45:47,840
then

4526
02:45:45,160 --> 02:45:48,960
a continuance would be useful,

4527
02:45:47,840 --> 02:45:50,040
possibly.

4528
02:45:48,960 --> 02:45:52,000
Um

4529
02:45:50,040 --> 02:45:54,080
I was asking cuz if that was a no, if

4530
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:55,320
you was going to say no to that, then

4531
02:45:54,080 --> 02:45:55,640
» I'm absolutely willing to do that.

4532
02:45:55,320 --> 02:45:58,160
» Okay.

4533
02:45:55,640 --> 02:46:00,040
» That's something that

4534
02:45:58,160 --> 02:46:03,360
um might determine

4535
02:46:00,040 --> 02:46:03,360
If it's not going to change things,

4536
02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:09,960
We obviously can't determine whether

4537
02:46:08,400 --> 02:46:11,920
it'll change things or not until we see

4538
02:46:09,960 --> 02:46:14,320
it. So, I can't promise anything to you,

4539
02:46:11,920 --> 02:46:14,320
but

4540
02:46:14,600 --> 02:46:17,200
» One and two [clears throat] are an open

4541
02:46:15,680 --> 02:46:18,800
question.

4542
02:46:17,200 --> 02:46:20,720
But

4543
02:46:18,800 --> 02:46:23,360
Can the is this necessary for the

4544
02:46:20,720 --> 02:46:25,320
property be in conformant use? I

4545
02:46:23,360 --> 02:46:27,400
There are other uses of this property

4546
02:46:25,320 --> 02:46:29,480
under R2, and I don't know how to get

4547
02:46:27,400 --> 02:46:31,920
around that.

4548
02:46:29,480 --> 02:46:31,920
» I agree with that.

4549
02:46:33,720 --> 02:46:37,160
Um I agree Jim as well.

4550
02:46:37,400 --> 02:46:40,440
» I I

4551
02:46:38,520 --> 02:46:43,080
From my standpoint, I would hate to have

4552
02:46:40,440 --> 02:46:45,520
somebody to spend money when

4553
02:46:43,080 --> 02:46:46,240
The those are open questions, but

4554
02:46:45,520 --> 02:46:47,240
but

4555
02:46:46,240 --> 02:46:48,840
it's

4556
02:46:47,240 --> 02:46:50,000
doesn't solve all the factors for me

4557
02:46:48,840 --> 02:46:53,680
that are necessary.

4558
02:46:50,000 --> 02:46:54,880
» And and quite frankly, I I still am

4559
02:46:53,680 --> 02:46:56,000
even if

4560
02:46:54,880 --> 02:46:58,200
that's all provided, I'm still

4561
02:46:56,000 --> 02:46:59,960
struggling with unnecessary hardship as

4562
02:46:58,200 --> 02:47:00,440
we generally do.

4563
02:46:59,960 --> 02:47:02,200
So.

4564
02:47:00,440 --> 02:47:04,440
» Just I might just remind the board,

4565
02:47:02,200 --> 02:47:06,600
yeah, it's the petitioner has to satisfy

4566
02:47:04,440 --> 02:47:08,840
all of the factors. It's not a totality

4567
02:47:06,600 --> 02:47:10,840
or three out of five, it's

4568
02:47:08,840 --> 02:47:14,080
it's all of them. So, Mr. Hurst makes a

4569
02:47:10,840 --> 02:47:14,080
point worth discussing.

4570
02:47:14,320 --> 02:47:17,960
» Well, you could I could not get a second

4571
02:47:16,360 --> 02:47:19,440
or I can be voted down, but I guess I'm

4572
02:47:17,960 --> 02:47:22,200
going to make a motion.

4573
02:47:19,440 --> 02:47:24,360
I move that docket number 2026-16-UV

4574
02:47:22,200 --> 02:47:26,240
variance of use to allow a veterinary

4575
02:47:24,360 --> 02:47:28,920
animal hospital or clinic in the rural

4576
02:47:26,240 --> 02:47:31,840
single-family residential R2 zoning

4577
02:47:28,920 --> 02:47:34,720
district for property at 9855 East 100

4578
02:47:31,840 --> 02:47:37,960
South, Zionsville, Indiana be denied as

4579
02:47:34,720 --> 02:47:37,960
presented and described.

4580
02:47:38,280 --> 02:47:41,400
» I'll second.

4581
02:47:40,120 --> 02:47:43,600
» I'll second it.

4582
02:47:41,400 --> 02:47:46,360
» Thank you.

4583
02:47:43,600 --> 02:47:46,360
Getting tired.

4584
02:47:47,080 --> 02:47:49,200
» Jim Hurst.

4585
02:47:48,200 --> 02:47:50,080
» I.

4586
02:47:49,200 --> 02:47:50,760
» Josh Fedor.

4587
02:47:50,080 --> 02:47:51,720
» I.

4588
02:47:50,760 --> 02:47:54,000
» Amanda Miller.

4589
02:47:51,720 --> 02:47:55,000
» I.

4590
02:47:54,000 --> 02:47:55,640
» Katie Glenn.

4591
02:47:55,000 --> 02:47:58,440
» I.

4592
02:47:55,640 --> 02:48:00,680
» Motion passes. The proposal is denied.

4593
02:47:58,440 --> 02:48:00,680
» Thank you.

4594
02:48:04,240 --> 02:48:07,040
Okay.

4595
02:48:20,080 --> 02:48:24,720
Um case

4596
02:48:21,720 --> 02:48:24,720
2026-17-DSV.

4597
02:48:25,800 --> 02:48:30,560
Um development standard variance. Uh

4598
02:48:28,640 --> 02:48:32,640
Jonathan, would you mind

4599
02:48:30,560 --> 02:48:35,600
when you're ever you're ready

4600
02:48:32,640 --> 02:48:35,600
walking us through that?

4601
02:48:59,600 --> 02:49:05,040
» Yes, ma'am. Sorry about the delay.

4602
02:49:02,960 --> 02:49:07,240
This is a

4603
02:49:05,040 --> 02:49:12,320
um a development standard variance for

4604
02:49:07,240 --> 02:49:13,440
property at uh 4775 West 116th Street.

4605
02:49:12,320 --> 02:49:15,360
Um

4606
02:49:13,440 --> 02:49:16,400
the Zionsville Pres- Presbyterian

4607
02:49:15,360 --> 02:49:17,560
Church.

4608
02:49:16,400 --> 02:49:20,080
Um

4609
02:49:17,560 --> 02:49:23,040
their sign regulations fall under

4610
02:49:20,080 --> 02:49:25,920
section 1941-164,

4611
02:49:23,040 --> 02:49:28,560
which for their zoning classification

4612
02:49:25,920 --> 02:49:30,640
limits the total number of on-premise

4613
02:49:28,560 --> 02:49:33,120
signs to four.

4614
02:49:30,640 --> 02:49:35,120
What the petitioner is requesting is to

4615
02:49:33,120 --> 02:49:37,720
allow for the

4616
02:49:35,120 --> 02:49:39,880
uh placement of a fifth sign.

4617
02:49:37,720 --> 02:49:43,120
Um as you will see

4618
02:49:39,880 --> 02:49:44,960
in the uh I provided a

4619
02:49:43,120 --> 02:49:48,120
uh site plan

4620
02:49:44,960 --> 02:49:49,520
and uh sign elevations, you'll see. I'll

4621
02:49:48,120 --> 02:49:52,000
connect my computer.

4622
02:49:49,520 --> 02:49:52,400
» Jonathan, are you able to get that uh

4623
02:49:52,000 --> 02:49:53,320
» Yeah, let me

4624
02:49:52,400 --> 02:49:54,600
» Presentation?

4625
02:49:53,320 --> 02:49:55,680
» Let me get it online here.

4626
02:49:54,600 --> 02:49:58,000
» Overhead?

4627
02:49:55,680 --> 02:49:58,000
» Yeah.

4628
02:50:06,720 --> 02:50:08,080
» Good.

4629
02:50:07,120 --> 02:50:08,800
» There you go.

4630
02:50:08,080 --> 02:50:10,680
Um

4631
02:50:08,800 --> 02:50:12,840
here's the sign. This will be the fifth

4632
02:50:10,680 --> 02:50:13,520
total sign on site.

4633
02:50:12,840 --> 02:50:16,520
Um

4634
02:50:13,520 --> 02:50:16,520
here is a

4635
02:50:16,600 --> 02:50:22,640
aerial or a site plan showing where the

4636
02:50:19,160 --> 02:50:24,760
other signs are located on the property.

4637
02:50:22,640 --> 02:50:26,480
Um so essentially uh that's what the

4638
02:50:24,760 --> 02:50:28,120
request boils down to is they have four

4639
02:50:26,480 --> 02:50:30,800
existing signs and they're asking for a

4640
02:50:28,120 --> 02:50:33,320
fifth. Staff, um if you look at our

4641
02:50:30,800 --> 02:50:34,640
staff report, we are in support of this

4642
02:50:33,320 --> 02:50:35,360
request.

4643
02:50:34,640 --> 02:50:39,240
Uh

4644
02:50:35,360 --> 02:50:41,400
we believe that um it meets all three

4645
02:50:39,240 --> 02:50:44,040
findings, right?

4646
02:50:41,400 --> 02:50:45,880
Needed to grant the request item one,

4647
02:50:44,040 --> 02:50:47,600
two, and three.

4648
02:50:45,880 --> 02:50:50,760
Specifically as it relates to hardship

4649
02:50:47,600 --> 02:50:52,720
or unnecessary hardship, we think that

4650
02:50:50,760 --> 02:50:55,440
the size of the property, the

4651
02:50:52,720 --> 02:50:57,680
configuration of the building, and the

4652
02:50:55,440 --> 02:50:58,960
number of public access points into the

4653
02:50:57,680 --> 02:51:01,600
building

4654
02:50:58,960 --> 02:51:03,440
plays a role in the need for a fifth

4655
02:51:01,600 --> 02:51:05,600
sign at this property.

4656
02:51:03,440 --> 02:51:08,720
And so we believe the criteria were met

4657
02:51:05,600 --> 02:51:10,640
and we support the petitioners request.

4658
02:51:08,720 --> 02:51:13,080
If you have any questions, I'm happy to

4659
02:51:10,640 --> 02:51:13,080
answer them.

4660
02:51:15,000 --> 02:51:18,360
» Is there any rendering of the sign or

4661
02:51:16,560 --> 02:51:20,120
just will conform with the existing

4662
02:51:18,360 --> 02:51:23,040
signs and aesthetic?

4663
02:51:20,120 --> 02:51:25,360
» There is the rendering of the proposed

4664
02:51:23,040 --> 02:51:25,360
sign.

4665
02:51:32,560 --> 02:51:35,880
» Any other questions for staff?

4666
02:51:35,080 --> 02:51:37,600
Okay.

4667
02:51:35,880 --> 02:51:40,040
Does the petitioner want to

4668
02:51:37,600 --> 02:51:40,040
come up?

4669
02:51:44,440 --> 02:51:49,120
» Hello, I'm Sally Bias with Zionsville

4670
02:51:46,840 --> 02:51:50,920
Presbyterian Church. And as Jonathan

4671
02:51:49,120 --> 02:51:53,120
said, we're requesting

4672
02:51:50,920 --> 02:51:55,640
to install a fifth sign. We had a new

4673
02:51:53,120 --> 02:51:57,600
addition to the church and

4674
02:51:55,640 --> 02:51:59,440
this is the entrance to our church. So

4675
02:51:57,600 --> 02:52:01,720
it helps people direct people to the

4676
02:51:59,440 --> 02:52:04,520
main entrance.

4677
02:52:01,720 --> 02:52:04,520
» It looks beautiful.

4678
02:52:05,720 --> 02:52:08,720
Does anyone have any questions?

4679
02:52:16,560 --> 02:52:19,840
Does anybody want to make a motion or

4680
02:52:18,320 --> 02:52:21,600
hold this?

4681
02:52:19,840 --> 02:52:23,040
Oh, any public comment? I didn't see a

4682
02:52:21,600 --> 02:52:25,400
head back there, so I forgot you were

4683
02:52:23,040 --> 02:52:26,600
back there.

4684
02:52:25,400 --> 02:52:29,080
I have no public comment, but is there

4685
02:52:26,600 --> 02:52:32,520
anyone online?

4686
02:52:29,080 --> 02:52:32,520
Okay. Anyone want to sign up?

4687
02:52:34,520 --> 02:52:38,000
» Well, I'm going to jump in first cuz I

4688
02:52:36,880 --> 02:52:39,840
I get to agree

4689
02:52:38,000 --> 02:52:40,760
I get to agree with the staff report

4690
02:52:39,840 --> 02:52:42,840
here.

4691
02:52:40,760 --> 02:52:44,760
The hard one for me to always find a way

4692
02:52:42,840 --> 02:52:47,600
around is unnecessary hardship, but this

4693
02:52:44,760 --> 02:52:49,720
is a property that was is an appropriate

4694
02:52:47,600 --> 02:52:52,480
use for its zoning.

4695
02:52:49,720 --> 02:52:54,640
And um

4696
02:52:52,480 --> 02:52:57,200
I think our

4697
02:52:54,640 --> 02:53:00,680
signage ordinances I think are deficient

4698
02:52:57,200 --> 02:53:03,200
for such a multi-entrance multi-

4699
02:53:00,680 --> 02:53:04,840
building public-facing property such as

4700
02:53:03,200 --> 02:53:07,680
this. And so I think the hardship is

4701
02:53:04,840 --> 02:53:10,040
easily cleared as identified in the

4702
02:53:07,680 --> 02:53:11,840
staff's report.

4703
02:53:10,040 --> 02:53:14,040
» I will say generally when I do go to

4704
02:53:11,840 --> 02:53:15,640
this church it's not for the

4705
02:53:14,040 --> 02:53:17,560
greatest times. Normally it's a funeral,

4706
02:53:15,640 --> 02:53:18,800
but I have always struggled to figure

4707
02:53:17,560 --> 02:53:21,000
out kind of where the main entrance is

4708
02:53:18,800 --> 02:53:22,560
cuz they added so many times. So this

4709
02:53:21,000 --> 02:53:24,400
this makes sense.

4710
02:53:22,560 --> 02:53:26,000
» So let that be right in the record. Josh

4711
02:53:24,400 --> 02:53:26,760
has some trouble finding his way around

4712
02:53:26,000 --> 02:53:28,779
church.

4713
02:53:26,760 --> 02:53:28,779
» [laughter]

4714
02:53:29,440 --> 02:53:32,240
» I'll drive you over there more often,

4715
02:53:30,800 --> 02:53:32,654
Josh.

4716
02:53:32,240 --> 02:53:34,674
Haha.

4717
02:53:32,654 --> 02:53:34,674
» [laughter]

4718
02:53:34,720 --> 02:53:38,560
» Uh yeah.

4719
02:53:37,400 --> 02:53:39,520
I was going to make the motion, but go

4720
02:53:38,560 --> 02:53:40,520
right ahead, Jim.

4721
02:53:39,520 --> 02:53:43,480
» Yeah, okay. [laughter]

4722
02:53:40,520 --> 02:53:43,480
I'm going to take this one.

4723
02:53:43,920 --> 02:53:49,200
Uh I move that docket number 2026 17 DSV

4724
02:53:47,520 --> 02:53:50,960
development standard variance to exceed

4725
02:53:49,200 --> 02:53:53,320
the maximum number of signs allowed for

4726
02:53:50,960 --> 02:53:55,040
a business in the urban business office

4727
02:53:53,320 --> 02:53:58,880
in Michigan Road Overlay District at

4728
02:53:55,040 --> 02:54:00,760
4775 West 106th Street, Zionsville

4729
02:53:58,880 --> 02:54:02,240
be approved as presented and described

4730
02:54:00,760 --> 02:54:04,200
based on the findings of the staff

4731
02:54:02,240 --> 02:54:05,960
report and staff recommendations,

4732
02:54:04,200 --> 02:54:07,280
submitted finding of fact, substantial

4733
02:54:05,960 --> 02:54:09,360
compliance with the submitted site

4734
02:54:07,280 --> 02:54:10,720
plans, and the evidence presented during

4735
02:54:09,360 --> 02:54:13,280
the hearing.

4736
02:54:10,720 --> 02:54:13,280
» Second.

4737
02:54:13,920 --> 02:54:15,320
» Vote.

4738
02:54:14,360 --> 02:54:16,000
» Jim Hurst.

4739
02:54:15,320 --> 02:54:16,840
» Aye.

4740
02:54:16,000 --> 02:54:17,320
» Josh Fedor.

4741
02:54:16,840 --> 02:54:18,080
» Aye.

4742
02:54:17,320 --> 02:54:19,120
» Katie Glenn.

4743
02:54:18,080 --> 02:54:20,040
» Aye.

4744
02:54:19,120 --> 02:54:20,560
» Amanda Miller.

4745
02:54:20,040 --> 02:54:22,600
» Aye.

4746
02:54:20,560 --> 02:54:25,080
» Motion passes. The petition is approved.

4747
02:54:22,600 --> 02:54:26,800
» Thank you.

4748
02:54:25,080 --> 02:54:27,560
» Madam Chair, can we take a 5-minute

4749
02:54:26,800 --> 02:54:31,440
bathroom break?

4750
02:54:27,560 --> 02:54:31,440
» Absolutely. Absolutely.

4751
02:56:24,600 --> 02:56:26,760
» Thank you.

4752
03:02:44,760 --> 03:02:53,360
» We will move on to

4753
03:02:47,960 --> 03:02:53,360
uh case 2026 18 DSV.

4754
03:02:53,480 --> 03:02:58,440
Uh another development standard

4755
03:02:54,840 --> 03:02:59,560
variance. Um Jonathan, I'll let you

4756
03:02:58,440 --> 03:03:01,240
present the case.

4757
03:02:59,560 --> 03:03:03,120
» It's fine.

4758
03:03:01,240 --> 03:03:05,600
So this is another hopefully

4759
03:03:03,120 --> 03:03:07,040
straightforward uh request. The

4760
03:03:05,600 --> 03:03:10,120
petitioner

4761
03:03:07,040 --> 03:03:11,640
is in the AG or rural AG zoning

4762
03:03:10,120 --> 03:03:13,400
district.

4763
03:03:11,640 --> 03:03:15,080
And there's a standard

4764
03:03:13,400 --> 03:03:18,080
um that

4765
03:03:15,080 --> 03:03:19,400
spells out a restriction that limits the

4766
03:03:18,080 --> 03:03:22,760
total

4767
03:03:19,400 --> 03:03:25,640
uh developed accessory square footage uh

4768
03:03:22,760 --> 03:03:28,360
in the rural zoning district. Uh

4769
03:03:25,640 --> 03:03:31,760
specifically, accessory structures have

4770
03:03:28,360 --> 03:03:34,760
to be subordinate to um height, area,

4771
03:03:31,760 --> 03:03:38,240
bulk, extent, etc. In this case, it's

4772
03:03:34,760 --> 03:03:40,560
total total area. Um

4773
03:03:38,240 --> 03:03:42,720
The petitioner's proposing two additions

4774
03:03:40,560 --> 03:03:44,800
to an existing uh

4775
03:03:42,720 --> 03:03:46,760
barn. You'll see those on the screen.

4776
03:03:44,800 --> 03:03:51,080
One's a 30 by 60.

4777
03:03:46,760 --> 03:03:51,080
One is 20 by 60.

4778
03:03:51,480 --> 03:03:54,200
Um

4779
03:03:52,480 --> 03:03:55,800
when you add all the existing square

4780
03:03:54,200 --> 03:03:58,240
footage of the accessory structures

4781
03:03:55,800 --> 03:04:00,720
together, um

4782
03:03:58,240 --> 03:04:02,160
that total number is 5,524

4783
03:04:00,720 --> 03:04:04,320
square feet.

4784
03:04:02,160 --> 03:04:06,800
And um

4785
03:04:04,320 --> 03:04:08,640
the primary structure is not I can't

4786
03:04:06,800 --> 03:04:10,480
remember where I put the the number to

4787
03:04:08,640 --> 03:04:12,680
that.

4788
03:04:10,480 --> 03:04:13,480
It is 2,000

4789
03:04:12,680 --> 03:04:16,440
um

4790
03:04:13,480 --> 03:04:18,680
556 square feet. So, the 5,000 square

4791
03:04:16,440 --> 03:04:20,800
feet of accessory uh square footage

4792
03:04:18,680 --> 03:04:22,520
exceeds the primary residence square

4793
03:04:20,800 --> 03:04:25,440
footage, which is creating the need for

4794
03:04:22,520 --> 03:04:27,640
this request. We did look at the height,

4795
03:04:25,440 --> 03:04:29,360
which was another concern. Um we looked

4796
03:04:27,640 --> 03:04:31,480
at the height of the addition, not the

4797
03:04:29,360 --> 03:04:34,040
height of the existing building. The

4798
03:04:31,480 --> 03:04:35,840
additions are compliant. They are below

4799
03:04:34,040 --> 03:04:37,680
the height of the house.

4800
03:04:35,840 --> 03:04:39,560
Um so, for this project to move forward,

4801
03:04:37,680 --> 03:04:41,080
they need the one variance to allow

4802
03:04:39,560 --> 03:04:42,320
accessory square footage to exceed

4803
03:04:41,080 --> 03:04:43,960
height

4804
03:04:42,320 --> 03:04:45,480
uh or to exceed the total square footage

4805
03:04:43,960 --> 03:04:47,880
of the primary structure.

4806
03:04:45,480 --> 03:04:49,680
We in this case again support this

4807
03:04:47,880 --> 03:04:51,680
request.

4808
03:04:49,680 --> 03:04:55,360
Um I'm going to quickly

4809
03:04:51,680 --> 03:04:56,520
hit um on the three findings. Um finding

4810
03:04:55,360 --> 03:04:58,360
one, we don't believe it's going to be

4811
03:04:56,520 --> 03:05:00,160
injurious to public health and safety.

4812
03:04:58,360 --> 03:05:01,720
Uh finding two, uh this is not going to

4813
03:05:00,160 --> 03:05:02,920
impact the use or value of adjacent

4814
03:05:01,720 --> 03:05:04,640
properties.

4815
03:05:02,920 --> 03:05:06,840
Um and finding three, as it relates to

4816
03:05:04,640 --> 03:05:08,920
hardship, we see this um

4817
03:05:06,840 --> 03:05:11,680
it's a pretty common situation for

4818
03:05:08,920 --> 03:05:15,720
ag-zoned parcels.

4819
03:05:11,680 --> 03:05:17,800
Um in this case, not large enough to be

4820
03:05:15,720 --> 03:05:19,440
classified as a farm,

4821
03:05:17,800 --> 03:05:21,160
but still large enough to need

4822
03:05:19,440 --> 03:05:24,440
significant amounts of equipment to

4823
03:05:21,160 --> 03:05:25,520
maintain the 9-to-10 acre site. Um and

4824
03:05:24,440 --> 03:05:27,680
any

4825
03:05:25,520 --> 03:05:31,760
outside storage of this stuff is not

4826
03:05:27,680 --> 03:05:35,120
allowed. And so, often times, buildings

4827
03:05:31,760 --> 03:05:37,480
that are needed to house the equipment

4828
03:05:35,120 --> 03:05:40,480
for these types of sites

4829
03:05:37,480 --> 03:05:41,960
um will exceed a one-story

4830
03:05:40,480 --> 03:05:43,320
uh the square footage of a one-story

4831
03:05:41,960 --> 03:05:44,600
home.

4832
03:05:43,320 --> 03:05:46,520
And so, we think that's an unnecessary

4833
03:05:44,600 --> 03:05:49,400
hardship um being created in the zoning

4834
03:05:46,520 --> 03:05:51,680
ordinance on this site. And uh for that

4835
03:05:49,400 --> 03:05:54,080
reason, we think the criteria was met.

4836
03:05:51,680 --> 03:05:56,240
Um and so, we we agree on all three

4837
03:05:54,080 --> 03:05:57,360
findings, and we believe

4838
03:05:56,240 --> 03:05:59,040
um

4839
03:05:57,360 --> 03:06:00,920
they meet the criteria. we we support

4840
03:05:59,040 --> 03:06:02,240
the petitioner's request. I'm happy to

4841
03:06:00,920 --> 03:06:05,240
answer any questions you have.

4842
03:06:02,240 --> 03:06:05,240
Otherwise, I'll turn it back to you.

4843
03:06:05,440 --> 03:06:08,360
» Thank you.

4844
03:06:07,480 --> 03:06:09,920
Do you guys have any questions for

4845
03:06:08,360 --> 03:06:11,920
Jonathan?

4846
03:06:09,920 --> 03:06:13,560
» No.

4847
03:06:11,920 --> 03:06:16,640
» Okay. Does the petitioner want to come

4848
03:06:13,560 --> 03:06:16,640
up and speak?

4849
03:06:20,680 --> 03:06:25,440
» My name is Donna Tanner and I live at

4850
03:06:22,520 --> 03:06:27,960
the address stated there, 8385

4851
03:06:25,440 --> 03:06:30,640
East 100 North, Whitestown.

4852
03:06:27,960 --> 03:06:33,080
And with our equipment and my new horse

4853
03:06:30,640 --> 03:06:34,800
trailer, and the barn that's currently

4854
03:06:33,080 --> 03:06:36,280
there is just really built for storage

4855
03:06:34,800 --> 03:06:37,640
and a workshop.

4856
03:06:36,280 --> 03:06:39,560
And we're needing more room for our

4857
03:06:37,640 --> 03:06:41,640
horses and hay and

4858
03:06:39,560 --> 03:06:42,920
the trailers just need protected for our

4859
03:06:41,640 --> 03:06:44,120
investment.

4860
03:06:42,920 --> 03:06:46,480
So, we're just hoping we can have a new

4861
03:06:44,120 --> 03:06:46,480
barn.

4862
03:06:46,760 --> 03:06:49,760
» Any questions?

4863
03:06:48,920 --> 03:06:50,960
» Uh

4864
03:06:49,760 --> 03:06:52,320
all the equipment you're going to be

4865
03:06:50,960 --> 03:06:55,080
storing in this is going to be personal

4866
03:06:52,320 --> 03:06:56,640
property. You're not storing equipment

4867
03:06:55,080 --> 03:06:58,320
for other people and not

4868
03:06:56,640 --> 03:06:59,440
» Trading a bottle of tequila for it or

4869
03:06:58,320 --> 03:07:00,680
anything like that.

4870
03:06:59,440 --> 03:07:00,920
» You can put one out there if you want,

4871
03:07:00,680 --> 03:07:02,899
but no.

4872
03:07:00,920 --> 03:07:04,400
» Don't give her ideas.

4873
03:07:02,899 --> 03:07:06,120
» [laughter]

4874
03:07:04,400 --> 03:07:07,920
» I'm right down the road from the polo

4875
03:07:06,120 --> 03:07:08,840
club, too. So, we're all the country and

4876
03:07:07,920 --> 03:07:10,560
there's

4877
03:07:08,840 --> 03:07:13,520
nobody's even going to see my barn cuz

4878
03:07:10,560 --> 03:07:13,520
I'm way off the road.

4879
03:07:21,720 --> 03:07:23,720
» Do you have any questions?

4880
03:07:22,960 --> 03:07:25,240
» Uh not for the

4881
03:07:23,720 --> 03:07:26,280
» Okay.

4882
03:07:25,240 --> 03:07:28,720
Um

4883
03:07:26,280 --> 03:07:31,120
well, um I I agree with staff on all

4884
03:07:28,720 --> 03:07:32,120
these points. Um

4885
03:07:31,120 --> 03:07:33,680
» Public?

4886
03:07:32,120 --> 03:07:37,560
» Oh, sorry. Is there public? I'm not

4887
03:07:33,680 --> 03:07:37,560
going to get this today. I apologize.

4888
03:07:37,600 --> 03:07:41,920
I am so sorry.

4889
03:07:39,720 --> 03:07:43,720
I'm so sorry.

4890
03:07:41,920 --> 03:07:46,400
I'm a little tired at this point. I go

4891
03:07:43,720 --> 03:07:46,400
to bed early.

4892
03:07:48,200 --> 03:07:52,360
» My name is Maureen Hart. I live at 682

4893
03:07:50,400 --> 03:07:53,600
North 800 East,

4894
03:07:52,360 --> 03:07:55,600
Whitestown, Indiana, which is actually

4895
03:07:53,600 --> 03:07:57,800
incorporated in Zionsville.

4896
03:07:55,600 --> 03:07:58,880
We live close to the polo field, also.

4897
03:07:57,800 --> 03:08:00,560
So, I don't know what that has anything

4898
03:07:58,880 --> 03:08:02,520
to do with this uh

4899
03:08:00,560 --> 03:08:04,000
this statement here, but

4900
03:08:02,520 --> 03:08:06,360
um

4901
03:08:04,000 --> 03:08:07,880
my mother-in-law and my wife,

4902
03:08:06,360 --> 03:08:10,280
mother-in-law owns the property to the

4903
03:08:07,880 --> 03:08:12,720
south of this request.

4904
03:08:10,280 --> 03:08:14,160
We have no information on to how the

4905
03:08:12,720 --> 03:08:16,080
drainage tile

4906
03:08:14,160 --> 03:08:17,720
is going to be modified.

4907
03:08:16,080 --> 03:08:19,880
We have no information how the

4908
03:08:17,720 --> 03:08:21,360
additional roof coverage is going to

4909
03:08:19,880 --> 03:08:24,200
provide sheet drainage onto the

4910
03:08:21,360 --> 03:08:25,800
property. I can tell you right now,

4911
03:08:24,200 --> 03:08:27,760
property south of her

4912
03:08:25,800 --> 03:08:29,080
is beans,

4913
03:08:27,760 --> 03:08:31,520
first planting,

4914
03:08:29,080 --> 03:08:33,640
great, no second plantings.

4915
03:08:31,520 --> 03:08:34,920
So, any uh future drainage problems

4916
03:08:33,640 --> 03:08:36,560
should need to be addressed in this

4917
03:08:34,920 --> 03:08:38,560
board here.

4918
03:08:36,560 --> 03:08:40,240
We want to be good neighbors. We're not

4919
03:08:38,560 --> 03:08:42,520
here to remonstrate,

4920
03:08:40,240 --> 03:08:43,720
but I will tell you

4921
03:08:42,520 --> 03:08:47,240
that what they're asking for for a

4922
03:08:43,720 --> 03:08:48,680
zoning request is not the most important

4923
03:08:47,240 --> 03:08:52,760
one.

4924
03:08:48,680 --> 03:08:56,560
194.02 additional setback provisions.

4925
03:08:52,760 --> 03:08:59,120
Long before any of these other zoning

4926
03:08:56,560 --> 03:09:01,920
setback requirements, etc., says,

4927
03:08:59,120 --> 03:09:04,040
"Setbacks for residential uses the uses

4928
03:09:01,920 --> 03:09:05,520
are subject to the special setbacks,

4929
03:09:04,040 --> 03:09:07,320
which shall include necessary buffer

4930
03:09:05,520 --> 03:09:08,960
yards prescribed by the following

4931
03:09:07,320 --> 03:09:12,240
table."

4932
03:09:08,960 --> 03:09:16,080
Table, private on residential lot, rear,

4933
03:09:12,240 --> 03:09:17,560
100 ft. You're asking for a 60%

4934
03:09:16,080 --> 03:09:20,520
reduction

4935
03:09:17,560 --> 03:09:21,560
in the setback requirement. This is not

4936
03:09:20,520 --> 03:09:23,560
um

4937
03:09:21,560 --> 03:09:26,560
something we will take lightly. When we

4938
03:09:23,560 --> 03:09:28,880
want to future develop this parcel,

4939
03:09:26,560 --> 03:09:29,840
we will get remonstrated

4940
03:09:28,880 --> 03:09:31,760
from

4941
03:09:29,840 --> 03:09:32,920
the neighbors, the Hickory Hall Polo

4942
03:09:31,760 --> 03:09:34,800
Field,

4943
03:09:32,920 --> 03:09:36,560
um all these other neighbors will want

4944
03:09:34,800 --> 03:09:38,440
to remonstrate for any future

4945
03:09:36,560 --> 03:09:40,160
development that we may have.

4946
03:09:38,440 --> 03:09:41,280
So, we're here to make a statement that

4947
03:09:40,160 --> 03:09:43,040
we want to be good neighbors. We're

4948
03:09:41,280 --> 03:09:45,200
willing to work with them,

4949
03:09:43,040 --> 03:09:47,440
um but clearly this

4950
03:09:45,200 --> 03:09:49,360
zoning ordinance that they're asking for

4951
03:09:47,440 --> 03:09:52,120
is not the most important zoning

4952
03:09:49,360 --> 03:09:54,680
statement. So, I'm not sure why

4953
03:09:52,120 --> 03:09:57,360
we're even going to any farther further

4954
03:09:54,680 --> 03:09:59,440
than it's requiring conditions being met

4955
03:09:57,360 --> 03:10:02,440
for this 100-ft setback.

4956
03:09:59,440 --> 03:10:02,440
194.020

4957
03:10:11,240 --> 03:10:13,680
» What was that in regards to? Are you

4958
03:10:13,200 --> 03:10:15,960
» I'm sorry.

4959
03:10:13,680 --> 03:10:18,040
» I'm sorry. I'm I'm I'm a little lost. Um

4960
03:10:15,960 --> 03:10:20,360
» There's a There's a

4961
03:10:18,040 --> 03:10:21,360
The zoning ordinance 194.020

4962
03:10:20,360 --> 03:10:22,640
» What you're referring to. Sorry. I

4963
03:10:21,360 --> 03:10:24,040
thought you just said it in arbitrary.

4964
03:10:22,640 --> 03:10:27,400
» Clearly is a

4965
03:10:24,040 --> 03:10:28,160
prelim to any other additional zoning

4966
03:10:27,400 --> 03:10:28,600
statements

4967
03:10:28,160 --> 03:10:30,800
» Okay.

4968
03:10:28,600 --> 03:10:32,560
» That being asked.

4969
03:10:30,800 --> 03:10:35,160
We're willing to work with these this

4970
03:10:32,560 --> 03:10:36,640
couple here. We've not heard from them.

4971
03:10:35,160 --> 03:10:38,160
Um

4972
03:10:36,640 --> 03:10:39,680
And I understand what their hardship may

4973
03:10:38,160 --> 03:10:41,640
be, if you want to call it a hardship.

4974
03:10:39,680 --> 03:10:43,240
They bought the property knowing that

4975
03:10:41,640 --> 03:10:46,200
this parcel may not meet their

4976
03:10:43,240 --> 03:10:49,040
requirements, and they come today asking

4977
03:10:46,200 --> 03:10:50,520
for additional variances.

4978
03:10:49,040 --> 03:10:52,560
If she's in real estate, she should have

4979
03:10:50,520 --> 03:10:54,480
known to look these variances

4980
03:10:52,560 --> 03:10:55,680
possibilities up or meet with the town.

4981
03:10:54,480 --> 03:10:58,080
And once again,

4982
03:10:55,680 --> 03:10:59,840
we're willing to meet, okay?

4983
03:10:58,080 --> 03:11:01,400
Um to sit there and try to figure out

4984
03:10:59,840 --> 03:11:03,400
what we can do.

4985
03:11:01,400 --> 03:11:04,920
Uh this barn could be built on the north

4986
03:11:03,400 --> 03:11:05,920
side of the property.

4987
03:11:04,920 --> 03:11:07,200
Um

4988
03:11:05,920 --> 03:11:09,000
So, there's various other things that

4989
03:11:07,200 --> 03:11:11,160
could happen. I think the location

4990
03:11:09,000 --> 03:11:12,840
they're asking for is correct,

4991
03:11:11,160 --> 03:11:14,920
but we don't want to have these future

4992
03:11:12,840 --> 03:11:16,080
drainage issues. We've got a drainage

4993
03:11:14,920 --> 03:11:18,400
tile we don't want to put on our

4994
03:11:16,080 --> 03:11:19,880
property. Um

4995
03:11:18,400 --> 03:11:22,440
But there's just several things here

4996
03:11:19,880 --> 03:11:24,120
that needs to be rectified before this

4997
03:11:22,440 --> 03:11:25,840
moves forward.

4998
03:11:24,120 --> 03:11:27,680
» So, your big concerns are Let me just

4999
03:11:25,840 --> 03:11:29,240
make sure I get this correct. Buffers,

5000
03:11:27,680 --> 03:11:31,320
drainage,

5001
03:11:29,240 --> 03:11:33,360
and there is a site map as far as

5002
03:11:31,320 --> 03:11:35,120
location, but you're not don't like

5003
03:11:33,360 --> 03:11:37,680
that. Is that the site location?

5004
03:11:35,120 --> 03:11:38,880
» Ordinance the ordinance actual ordinance

5005
03:11:37,680 --> 03:11:40,440
is 100-ft.

5006
03:11:38,880 --> 03:11:43,120
» Right.

5007
03:11:40,440 --> 03:11:44,600
» They're asking for a 60% reduction. It's

5008
03:11:43,120 --> 03:11:48,440
excessive.

5009
03:11:44,600 --> 03:11:48,440
But we may work that out with them.

5010
03:11:50,960 --> 03:11:52,960
» Did you want to say something, John? I'm

5011
03:11:51,840 --> 03:11:55,040
sorry.

5012
03:11:52,960 --> 03:11:56,400
» So, I'm

5013
03:11:55,040 --> 03:11:58,200
I'm going to put what I'm looking at on

5014
03:11:56,400 --> 03:12:00,480
the screen so you can so you can help

5015
03:11:58,200 --> 03:12:00,480
me.

5016
03:12:04,920 --> 03:12:11,040
I went to the section 194020,

5017
03:12:08,360 --> 03:12:13,360
which is additional setback provisions.

5018
03:12:11,040 --> 03:12:15,720
Uh

5019
03:12:13,360 --> 03:12:16,480
» Uh if you could sit down, sir. Are you

5020
03:12:15,720 --> 03:12:18,680
addressing him?

5021
03:12:16,480 --> 03:12:19,920
» I was going to just ask. I see the table

5022
03:12:18,680 --> 03:12:20,960
that you are

5023
03:12:19,920 --> 03:12:22,600
» Scroll the table, please.

5024
03:12:20,960 --> 03:12:23,720
» That's what I was I want to know what

5025
03:12:22,600 --> 03:12:26,720
classification

5026
03:12:23,720 --> 03:12:28,040
» Right there. Stable private it's

5027
03:12:26,720 --> 03:12:29,480
Right there. Stable private on

5028
03:12:28,040 --> 03:12:31,920
residential lot.

5029
03:12:29,480 --> 03:12:34,480
» I just want to clarify that it's not

5030
03:12:31,920 --> 03:12:38,640
been classified as a stable.

5031
03:12:34,480 --> 03:12:38,640
» It says stable on the plans.

5032
03:12:40,600 --> 03:12:45,520
» What has been what it's been classified

5033
03:12:42,920 --> 03:12:47,200
as which is why the setback has been

5034
03:12:45,520 --> 03:12:50,280
allowed

5035
03:12:47,200 --> 03:12:52,880
is an accessory to a single-family

5036
03:12:50,280 --> 03:12:55,360
residential building, right? So, it

5037
03:12:52,880 --> 03:12:56,920
would be not subject

5038
03:12:55,360 --> 03:12:59,920
to

5039
03:12:56,920 --> 03:13:02,200
this setback provision as a stable.

5040
03:12:59,920 --> 03:13:03,680
It's subject to the standards in table

5041
03:13:02,200 --> 03:13:06,760
three

5042
03:13:03,680 --> 03:13:09,040
for ag specifically. And what you'll see

5043
03:13:06,760 --> 03:13:10,840
is I don't have the the site plan pulled

5044
03:13:09,040 --> 03:13:13,520
up, but the numbers are significantly

5045
03:13:10,840 --> 03:13:15,840
different on table three than what is

5046
03:13:13,520 --> 03:13:18,280
for a private stable.

5047
03:13:15,840 --> 03:13:20,160
» Are you looking at a new modified

5048
03:13:18,280 --> 03:13:20,960
standard?

5049
03:13:20,160 --> 03:13:21,840
» Uh uh no, sir.

5050
03:13:20,960 --> 03:13:23,720
» Published?

5051
03:13:21,840 --> 03:13:27,160
» No, sir. This is This is on the This is

5052
03:13:23,720 --> 03:13:29,880
on the the website. And I would say

5053
03:13:27,160 --> 03:13:31,120
of the two provisions that we're looking

5054
03:13:29,880 --> 03:13:34,000
at

5055
03:13:31,120 --> 03:13:35,640
the one that's most commonly used far

5056
03:13:34,000 --> 03:13:36,920
and above.

5057
03:13:35,640 --> 03:13:38,680
Um

5058
03:13:36,920 --> 03:13:39,680
» Commonly is different than what states

5059
03:13:38,680 --> 03:13:41,240
black and white.

5060
03:13:39,680 --> 03:13:42,760
» Yeah, what what I'm saying is this is

5061
03:13:41,240 --> 03:13:44,440
not a new table.

5062
03:13:42,760 --> 03:13:46,840
» Um if I could just interject here real

5063
03:13:44,440 --> 03:13:49,200
quick. Um thank you, sir. Your comments

5064
03:13:46,840 --> 03:13:50,720
have been noted. Drainage buffers, I

5065
03:13:49,200 --> 03:13:52,800
understand there's a little bit

5066
03:13:50,720 --> 03:13:54,160
confusion on the zoning piece.

5067
03:13:52,800 --> 03:13:55,920
Um

5068
03:13:54,160 --> 03:13:57,880
if you wouldn't mind taking your seat.

5069
03:13:55,920 --> 03:13:59,600
Um assuming you No one else has any

5070
03:13:57,880 --> 03:14:02,200
questions.

5071
03:13:59,600 --> 03:14:02,200
Um

5072
03:14:02,880 --> 03:14:05,840
Is there anyone online?

5073
03:14:05,120 --> 03:14:07,560
» There is none.

5074
03:14:05,840 --> 03:14:09,520
» Okay. Is there anyone else in the public

5075
03:14:07,560 --> 03:14:12,080
right now that has any other questions

5076
03:14:09,520 --> 03:14:14,680
or Okay.

5077
03:14:12,080 --> 03:14:14,680
Um

5078
03:14:14,800 --> 03:14:18,040
Jonathan, did you want to finish re- Was

5079
03:14:16,880 --> 03:14:18,440
there anything else you wanted to add on

5080
03:14:18,040 --> 03:14:21,200
that piece?

5081
03:14:18,440 --> 03:14:23,040
» I just want to clarify just so

5082
03:14:21,200 --> 03:14:26,400
everybody's on the same page. This is

5083
03:14:23,040 --> 03:14:30,880
not the building that you currently have

5084
03:14:26,400 --> 03:14:32,680
is not solely being used for the sh-

5085
03:14:30,880 --> 03:14:35,400
the housing of horses.

5086
03:14:32,680 --> 03:14:37,160
This is not only going to house horses,

5087
03:14:35,400 --> 03:14:38,280
right? In this traditional sense of a

5088
03:14:37,160 --> 03:14:42,000
stable.

5089
03:14:38,280 --> 03:14:43,960
Um and if it's not the stable

5090
03:14:42,000 --> 03:14:46,800
uh meaning that you're storing hay,

5091
03:14:43,960 --> 03:14:48,120
personal equipment you may store animals

5092
03:14:46,800 --> 03:14:51,680
in there, I have no idea, but if it's

5093
03:14:48,120 --> 03:14:53,720
not solely storing horses as a stable

5094
03:14:51,680 --> 03:14:55,920
then it's not subject to the regulations

5095
03:14:53,720 --> 03:14:57,440
of 194020.

5096
03:14:55,920 --> 03:14:59,400
Right.

5097
03:14:57,440 --> 03:15:02,000
» Um

5098
03:14:59,400 --> 03:15:04,280
fellow board members, com- comments or

5099
03:15:02,000 --> 03:15:07,080
thoughts?

5100
03:15:04,280 --> 03:15:08,960
» I didn't know maybe if the

5101
03:15:07,080 --> 03:15:09,920
A if there was other comment I don't

5102
03:15:08,960 --> 03:15:10,520
know if anybody's in line.

5103
03:15:09,920 --> 03:15:11,640
» Wait. We have

5104
03:15:10,520 --> 03:15:13,000
» You do that? Sorry.

5105
03:15:11,640 --> 03:15:15,240
» Yeah, it's okay. You're tired, too. I'm

5106
03:15:13,000 --> 03:15:16,120
not the only one. Okay, there we go.

5107
03:15:15,240 --> 03:15:16,520
» You're doing awesome.

5108
03:15:16,120 --> 03:15:18,520
» [clears throat]

5109
03:15:16,520 --> 03:15:21,080
» Um I didn't know if the petitioner

5110
03:15:18,520 --> 03:15:23,160
wanted to respond. Maybe not about the

5111
03:15:21,080 --> 03:15:25,440
zoning particularities, which I'm going

5112
03:15:23,160 --> 03:15:27,880
to trust staff's read on that.

5113
03:15:25,440 --> 03:15:30,520
Uh but on any

5114
03:15:27,880 --> 03:15:32,440
tile and drainage concerns.

5115
03:15:30,520 --> 03:15:32,880
» Um would the petitioner like to

5116
03:15:32,440 --> 03:15:34,800
speak?

5117
03:15:32,880 --> 03:15:35,000
» Could you address uh

5118
03:15:34,800 --> 03:15:36,640
the

5119
03:15:35,000 --> 03:15:38,760
» Would you stand up and sorry, name

5120
03:15:36,640 --> 03:15:40,040
address. So, the concerns to the

5121
03:15:38,760 --> 03:15:41,200
previous

5122
03:15:40,040 --> 03:15:42,040
um

5123
03:15:41,200 --> 03:15:45,480
uh

5124
03:15:42,040 --> 03:15:47,280
Renee was that drainage and buffers um

5125
03:15:45,480 --> 03:15:48,600
was something that he brought up.

5126
03:15:47,280 --> 03:15:50,280
» I guess we wasn't told we needed to

5127
03:15:48,600 --> 03:15:52,640
address that yet.

5128
03:15:50,280 --> 03:15:53,800
Um, we just need to get past this stage

5129
03:15:52,640 --> 03:15:55,840
and then

5130
03:15:53,800 --> 03:15:57,560
I guess we have a planning stage to get

5131
03:15:55,840 --> 03:15:59,400
approved for our next go where we get

5132
03:15:57,560 --> 03:16:00,720
into the

5133
03:15:59,400 --> 03:16:02,440
» It'll be a development plan review.

5134
03:16:00,720 --> 03:16:05,000
» That's the impression I had from

5135
03:16:02,440 --> 03:16:05,880
Jonathan. Is that not right? I didn't

5136
03:16:05,000 --> 03:16:06,360
think I had to worry about it.

5137
03:16:05,880 --> 03:16:07,880
» That's correct.

5138
03:16:06,360 --> 03:16:08,280
» Well, that's correct. You're correct.

5139
03:16:07,880 --> 03:16:10,920
Yes.

5140
03:16:08,280 --> 03:16:12,240
» There'll be a a um

5141
03:16:10,920 --> 03:16:13,600
review of the drainage at the

5142
03:16:12,240 --> 03:16:15,920
development plan level before the

5143
03:16:13,600 --> 03:16:17,680
planning commission and the petitioner

5144
03:16:15,920 --> 03:16:19,320
will be required to comply with the

5145
03:16:17,680 --> 03:16:20,400
stormwater ordinance and all other

5146
03:16:19,320 --> 03:16:20,920
drainage laws.

5147
03:16:20,400 --> 03:16:23,720
» Right.

5148
03:16:20,920 --> 03:16:25,600
» So, that's really a different um time.

5149
03:16:23,720 --> 03:16:26,720
» I want to interject. Is is that fact

5150
03:16:25,600 --> 03:16:28,480
that a development plan review would be

5151
03:16:26,720 --> 03:16:31,120
required in this case?

5152
03:16:28,480 --> 03:16:33,040
» There will be a a build as what we call

5153
03:16:31,120 --> 03:16:35,200
a zoning review, which occurs at the

5154
03:16:33,040 --> 03:16:36,520
staff level. Um, the terminology

5155
03:16:35,200 --> 03:16:39,440
development plan review is something

5156
03:16:36,520 --> 03:16:41,320
that we use for planning commission

5157
03:16:39,440 --> 03:16:44,440
items. You're not going to rise to that

5158
03:16:41,320 --> 03:16:46,400
level. You will be reviewed at the

5159
03:16:44,440 --> 03:16:47,640
staff level administratively.

5160
03:16:46,400 --> 03:16:50,000
» With a building permit.

5161
03:16:47,640 --> 03:16:52,320
» Our team Yeah, building permit. Our team

5162
03:16:50,000 --> 03:16:53,760
will look at the zoning regulations

5163
03:16:52,320 --> 03:16:55,520
um to ensure that you comply with

5164
03:16:53,760 --> 03:16:56,920
everything, right? Which this is part of

5165
03:16:55,520 --> 03:17:00,120
that process.

5166
03:16:56,920 --> 03:17:03,640
Um, drainage, right, is DPW.

5167
03:17:00,120 --> 03:17:06,640
And part of the IOP process

5168
03:17:03,640 --> 03:17:07,120
is approval of the drainage from DPW,

5169
03:17:06,640 --> 03:17:08,480
right?

5170
03:17:07,120 --> 03:17:10,080
» Part of that building permit.

5171
03:17:08,480 --> 03:17:11,280
» Uh it is part of the IO Yeah, the

5172
03:17:10,080 --> 03:17:12,640
building permit. I don't want to sit

5173
03:17:11,280 --> 03:17:15,360
here and speak to all the ins and outs

5174
03:17:12,640 --> 03:17:17,600
of the engineering drainage stuff cuz

5175
03:17:15,360 --> 03:17:18,800
that's above my my level of education as

5176
03:17:17,600 --> 03:17:21,160
far as that's concerned. But, it'll be

5177
03:17:18,800 --> 03:17:22,000
addressed um

5178
03:17:21,160 --> 03:17:24,120
at the permit level.

5179
03:17:22,000 --> 03:17:26,120
» And we'd want it to be. Yeah.

5180
03:17:24,120 --> 03:17:27,920
» And I can say they can't issue a permit

5181
03:17:26,120 --> 03:17:29,520
for it if it does not comply with their

5182
03:17:27,920 --> 03:17:30,760
standards, whatever that is.

5183
03:17:29,520 --> 03:17:32,440
» Correct.

5184
03:17:30,760 --> 03:17:33,720
» Thank you. I What I was looking for is

5185
03:17:32,440 --> 03:17:35,680
you were committed to following the

5186
03:17:33,720 --> 03:17:38,720
process of the town to address the

5187
03:17:35,680 --> 03:17:41,360
drainage. So, thank you.

5188
03:17:38,720 --> 03:17:42,520
» I do have one question for Mr. Hart. If

5189
03:17:41,360 --> 03:17:43,560
he would if

5190
03:17:42,520 --> 03:17:44,120
we can get him back up there.

5191
03:17:43,560 --> 03:17:45,720
» Mhm.

5192
03:17:44,120 --> 03:17:47,600
» Uh the question is

5193
03:17:45,720 --> 03:17:49,440
Are you you brought up field tiles,

5194
03:17:47,600 --> 03:17:50,920
drainage tiles?

5195
03:17:49,440 --> 03:17:53,320
I'm looking at the site map. There's a

5196
03:17:50,920 --> 03:17:55,280
creek there straight to the east. Most

5197
03:17:53,320 --> 03:17:58,160
field tiles go straight to the most

5198
03:17:55,280 --> 03:18:00,480
logical outlet. Are you aware of field

5199
03:17:58,160 --> 03:18:02,800
tiles on this or that intersect from

5200
03:18:00,480 --> 03:18:04,120
your property through this property?

5201
03:18:02,800 --> 03:18:07,720
Is there something that drains into that

5202
03:18:04,120 --> 03:18:09,840
small pond from your field?

5203
03:18:07,720 --> 03:18:11,840
» Well, the drawing that was provided

5204
03:18:09,840 --> 03:18:13,760
through the Stump residence, that's what

5205
03:18:11,840 --> 03:18:16,040
you're looking at.

5206
03:18:13,760 --> 03:18:16,040
» Mhm.

5207
03:18:16,160 --> 03:18:18,840
There's an open ditch. If I remember, I

5208
03:18:17,680 --> 03:18:19,800
think that's called Artman Ditch

5209
03:18:18,840 --> 03:18:21,640
straight to the east.

5210
03:18:19,800 --> 03:18:22,640
» It's Artman Creek. It's Artman Creek.

5211
03:18:21,640 --> 03:18:24,200
» Creek, ditch.

5212
03:18:22,640 --> 03:18:25,320
» Artman Ditch, actually. I'm sorry.

5213
03:18:24,200 --> 03:18:26,080
» Depends on if you're marketing it or if

5214
03:18:25,320 --> 03:18:27,880
you're a farmer.

5215
03:18:26,080 --> 03:18:29,920
» Right. So,

5216
03:18:27,880 --> 03:18:31,240
» But it's uh most field tiles are

5217
03:18:29,920 --> 03:18:32,880
naturally going to flow to that ditch.

5218
03:18:31,240 --> 03:18:34,280
Are you aware of any field tiles on this

5219
03:18:32,880 --> 03:18:36,000
property

5220
03:18:34,280 --> 03:18:37,480
that are inter- that are going through

5221
03:18:36,000 --> 03:18:39,480
your property?

5222
03:18:37,480 --> 03:18:41,960
» I am not aware of any I'm not aware of

5223
03:18:39,480 --> 03:18:44,280
any. I can tell you if we'll bring up

5224
03:18:41,960 --> 03:18:46,360
the Hickory Polo Polo Field,

5225
03:18:44,280 --> 03:18:47,720
they put a drainage tile on our

5226
03:18:46,360 --> 03:18:49,120
property.

5227
03:18:47,720 --> 03:18:51,680
We're trying to prevent that. We're just

5228
03:18:49,120 --> 03:18:53,480
trying to be open discussion here.

5229
03:18:51,680 --> 03:18:54,440
» I don't see how with this ditch being

5230
03:18:53,480 --> 03:18:56,720
that close to it.

5231
03:18:54,440 --> 03:18:57,880
» I I don't I don't either. I've seen it

5232
03:18:56,720 --> 03:18:59,480
happen.

5233
03:18:57,880 --> 03:19:01,440
I just want to make sure that the proper

5234
03:18:59,480 --> 03:19:02,560
procedures, if it goes through DPW or

5235
03:19:01,440 --> 03:19:03,840
whatever the

5236
03:19:02,560 --> 03:19:05,000
uh improvement location permit on

5237
03:19:03,840 --> 03:19:05,920
drainage.

5238
03:19:05,000 --> 03:19:07,200
» I just want to make sure we weren't

5239
03:19:05,920 --> 03:19:08,360
cutting any field tiles. That would be a

5240
03:19:07,200 --> 03:19:08,880
» There should not be any that I'm aware

5241
03:19:08,360 --> 03:19:11,560
of, correct.

5242
03:19:08,880 --> 03:19:11,560
» All right. Thank you.

5243
03:19:16,280 --> 03:19:21,520
» Any other questions?

5244
03:19:19,040 --> 03:19:21,520
Thoughts?

5245
03:19:25,600 --> 03:19:30,040
» Well, I think we've

5246
03:19:27,320 --> 03:19:31,800
um confirmed that they will go through

5247
03:19:30,040 --> 03:19:33,400
from a staff level

5248
03:19:31,800 --> 03:19:36,400
um

5249
03:19:33,400 --> 03:19:38,840
a permit and building review process,

5250
03:19:36,400 --> 03:19:40,360
which will cover drainage.

5251
03:19:38,840 --> 03:19:42,240
» I mean yeah, after this you'll still

5252
03:19:40,360 --> 03:19:42,600
have to apply for an IOP.

5253
03:19:42,240 --> 03:19:46,280
» Right.

5254
03:19:42,600 --> 03:19:48,920
» Um we'll do a review and I'm sure

5255
03:19:46,280 --> 03:19:50,920
there's there's supplemental items as it

5256
03:19:48,920 --> 03:19:52,160
relates to DPW, but I don't I don't want

5257
03:19:50,920 --> 03:19:54,720
to speak to that cuz I just don't know

5258
03:19:52,160 --> 03:19:55,640
what that looks like. Um I will tell you

5259
03:19:54,720 --> 03:19:57,240
they're not going to let you do

5260
03:19:55,640 --> 03:19:59,520
something that

5261
03:19:57,240 --> 03:20:01,200
injures your neighbor.

5262
03:19:59,520 --> 03:20:03,560
And what it to whatever degree that

5263
03:20:01,200 --> 03:20:03,560
would be.

5264
03:20:08,200 --> 03:20:11,440
» Any other comments? No?

5265
03:20:10,760 --> 03:20:13,040
Okay.

5266
03:20:11,440 --> 03:20:15,000
» Ready for a motion?

5267
03:20:13,040 --> 03:20:17,400
» Well, I I'm going to jump in there cuz I

5268
03:20:15,000 --> 03:20:19,160
got work for you, Josh, on your planning

5269
03:20:17,400 --> 03:20:21,800
commission role.

5270
03:20:19,160 --> 03:20:25,840
I appreciate staff recognizing that in

5271
03:20:21,800 --> 03:20:27,920
these not 100-acre or greater parcels,

5272
03:20:25,840 --> 03:20:29,480
but there is a need for

5273
03:20:27,920 --> 03:20:30,480
ag-related

5274
03:20:29,480 --> 03:20:33,400
um

5275
03:20:30,480 --> 03:20:35,760
on ag zone property type storage levels

5276
03:20:33,400 --> 03:20:38,520
and that they are supportive of that

5277
03:20:35,760 --> 03:20:40,680
it's a hardship to have these accessory

5278
03:20:38,520 --> 03:20:41,840
structures subordinate to the primary

5279
03:20:40,680 --> 03:20:42,880
house.

5280
03:20:41,840 --> 03:20:44,280
Um

5281
03:20:42,880 --> 03:20:46,760
they shouldn't have to have come here

5282
03:20:44,280 --> 03:20:48,640
for a waiver on that, and I think um the

5283
03:20:46,760 --> 03:20:50,040
planning commission should be drafting

5284
03:20:48,640 --> 03:20:52,400
ordinance for the town council to

5285
03:20:50,040 --> 03:20:53,520
consider in these situations, so we

5286
03:20:52,400 --> 03:20:54,120
don't have to make these people come

5287
03:20:53,520 --> 03:20:55,160
here.

5288
03:20:54,120 --> 03:20:57,920
» All the other planning commission

5289
03:20:55,160 --> 03:20:59,240
members are listening I are watching.

5290
03:20:57,920 --> 03:21:01,000
Yeah, I would I would agree.

5291
03:20:59,240 --> 03:21:01,240
» You would agree? Okay. Now, I got a

5292
03:21:01,000 --> 03:21:03,240
question.

5293
03:21:01,240 --> 03:21:04,440
» If you own If you own acreage, you have

5294
03:21:03,240 --> 03:21:06,000
you you know,

5295
03:21:04,440 --> 03:21:08,120
the last thing I want to see is someone

5296
03:21:06,000 --> 03:21:09,880
buy 9 acres and not be able to have a

5297
03:21:08,120 --> 03:21:11,240
a tractor and a bush hog to be able to

5298
03:21:09,880 --> 03:21:12,840
mow their property, and then it

5299
03:21:11,240 --> 03:21:14,640
overgrow, and then we get invasive

5300
03:21:12,840 --> 03:21:16,640
species in.

5301
03:21:14,640 --> 03:21:17,720
And you know,

5302
03:21:16,640 --> 03:21:18,920
you got to be able to maintain your

5303
03:21:17,720 --> 03:21:20,640
property.

5304
03:21:18,920 --> 03:21:22,440
And when you get in these parcel sizes

5305
03:21:20,640 --> 03:21:23,720
of the size you have to

5306
03:21:22,440 --> 03:21:26,640
I tried doing it for years without a

5307
03:21:23,720 --> 03:21:29,760
tractor and tore up two lawn mowers. So,

5308
03:21:26,640 --> 03:21:30,920
um I I simply I I

5309
03:21:29,760 --> 03:21:33,560
I understand where the petitioner is

5310
03:21:30,920 --> 03:21:33,560
coming from.

5311
03:21:35,120 --> 03:21:38,920
» I would agree.

5312
03:21:37,440 --> 03:21:40,000
Thank you.

5313
03:21:38,920 --> 03:21:41,400
You guys have been You've been You've

5314
03:21:40,000 --> 03:21:43,360
been You've been hearing the bad all

5315
03:21:41,400 --> 03:21:46,920
night.

5316
03:21:43,360 --> 03:21:48,400
» That docket 2026-18-DSV

5317
03:21:46,920 --> 03:21:50,720
development standards variance to allow

5318
03:21:48,400 --> 03:21:52,280
total accessory square footage to exceed

5319
03:21:50,720 --> 03:21:54,080
the total square footage of the primary

5320
03:21:52,280 --> 03:21:57,960
residency for the construction of two

5321
03:21:54,080 --> 03:22:00,760
additions to the existing barn at 8385

5322
03:21:57,960 --> 03:22:02,200
East 100 North B approved as presented

5323
03:22:00,760 --> 03:22:03,200
and described based on the findings and

5324
03:22:02,200 --> 03:22:05,480
staff [clears throat] report staff

5325
03:22:03,200 --> 03:22:07,120
recommendations, submitted findings of

5326
03:22:05,480 --> 03:22:08,840
fact, substantial compliance with the

5327
03:22:07,120 --> 03:22:10,960
submitted site plans, and evidence

5328
03:22:08,840 --> 03:22:13,720
presented during the hearing.

5329
03:22:10,960 --> 03:22:13,720
» I'll second.

5330
03:22:14,800 --> 03:22:16,560
» Jasper door?

5331
03:22:15,640 --> 03:22:17,640
» Aye.

5332
03:22:16,560 --> 03:22:18,160
» Amanda Miller?

5333
03:22:17,640 --> 03:22:19,040
» Aye. [clears throat]

5334
03:22:18,160 --> 03:22:19,680
» Katie Glenn?

5335
03:22:19,040 --> 03:22:20,400
» Aye.

5336
03:22:19,680 --> 03:22:20,920
» Jim Hurst?

5337
03:22:20,400 --> 03:22:23,040
» Aye.

5338
03:22:20,920 --> 03:22:25,600
» Motion passes, the petition is approved.

5339
03:22:23,040 --> 03:22:25,600
» Thank you.

5340
03:22:58,560 --> 03:23:03,400
So, we'll move on to case 2026-20-AP.

5341
03:23:04,160 --> 03:23:06,560
Jonathan, no rush. Whenever you're

5342
03:23:06,080 --> 03:23:08,280
ready.

5343
03:23:06,560 --> 03:23:11,320
» Well, in this case, because it's an

5344
03:23:08,280 --> 03:23:12,480
appeal, I'd like to talk about the the

5345
03:23:11,320 --> 03:23:13,680
And it's

5346
03:23:12,480 --> 03:23:15,120
um

5347
03:23:13,680 --> 03:23:17,640
it's my understanding that the person

5348
03:23:15,120 --> 03:23:19,640
bringing the case to the BZA should

5349
03:23:17,640 --> 03:23:21,880
first present their case

5350
03:23:19,640 --> 03:23:23,320
followed by staffs

5351
03:23:21,880 --> 03:23:24,720
explaining the the reason for their

5352
03:23:23,320 --> 03:23:25,840
position.

5353
03:23:24,720 --> 03:23:27,040
Uh

5354
03:23:25,840 --> 03:23:28,320
So, um

5355
03:23:27,040 --> 03:23:30,800
and then of course then you would decide

5356
03:23:28,320 --> 03:23:32,000
on uh whether to uh

5357
03:23:30,800 --> 03:23:33,360
uphold

5358
03:23:32,000 --> 03:23:36,360
uh

5359
03:23:33,360 --> 03:23:37,920
or grant the appeal um or deny the

5360
03:23:36,360 --> 03:23:39,040
appeal.

5361
03:23:37,920 --> 03:23:41,280
Okay.

5362
03:23:39,040 --> 03:23:41,280
So.

5363
03:23:42,480 --> 03:23:45,920
» Motion.

5364
03:23:43,160 --> 03:23:45,920
» Mhm. Mhm.

5365
03:23:56,440 --> 03:24:00,040
» Good Good evening, ladies and gentlemen

5366
03:23:58,640 --> 03:24:02,840
of the board.

5367
03:24:00,040 --> 03:24:05,840
Uh my name is Tom Bennett. I live at 190

5368
03:24:02,840 --> 03:24:08,440
North Maple Street here in Zionsville.

5369
03:24:05,840 --> 03:24:10,120
Uh very much appreciate your time

5370
03:24:08,440 --> 03:24:11,840
and uh the good work you do for our

5371
03:24:10,120 --> 03:24:13,440
community. And I say that in all

5372
03:24:11,840 --> 03:24:16,680
sincerity.

5373
03:24:13,440 --> 03:24:19,280
And I appreciate uh that you guys have

5374
03:24:16,680 --> 03:24:21,360
been so accommodating uh to for some of

5375
03:24:19,280 --> 03:24:23,920
the things done in the past. Also want

5376
03:24:21,360 --> 03:24:27,160
to say a special thank you to Jonathan

5377
03:24:23,920 --> 03:24:29,760
and his team. Uh you know, um

5378
03:24:27,160 --> 03:24:31,920
I learned a lot in the last um

5379
03:24:29,760 --> 03:24:33,840
several months on the appeal process and

5380
03:24:31,920 --> 03:24:36,960
whatnot. And Jonathan was a great

5381
03:24:33,840 --> 03:24:40,240
shepherd of that process, etc.

5382
03:24:36,960 --> 03:24:42,760
Um I do have with me uh my colleague uh

5383
03:24:40,240 --> 03:24:45,560
Mr. Chris Trapp. Uh he and I work

5384
03:24:42,760 --> 03:24:47,760
together at the uh same company.

5385
03:24:45,560 --> 03:24:50,760
He is our company's director of real

5386
03:24:47,760 --> 03:24:52,800
estate. And he is an attorney, and he is

5387
03:24:50,760 --> 03:24:55,640
far more articulate, eloquent, and

5388
03:24:52,800 --> 03:24:57,560
educated than I am in these matters. So,

5389
03:24:55,640 --> 03:24:58,920
Chris, if you if you will, please.

5390
03:24:57,560 --> 03:25:00,840
» Thank you, Byron.

5391
03:24:58,920 --> 03:25:02,120
If I may, Madam Chair, members of the

5392
03:25:00,840 --> 03:25:03,880
board. And I think he's just saying that

5393
03:25:02,120 --> 03:25:05,626
cuz I'm he's not paying me, so he's got

5394
03:25:03,880 --> 03:25:06,160
to be nice about it.

5395
03:25:05,626 --> 03:25:06,920
» [laughter]

5396
03:25:06,160 --> 03:25:08,400
» No, I

5397
03:25:06,920 --> 03:25:09,960
I appreciate it. I'd also like to to

5398
03:25:08,400 --> 03:25:11,240
echo the sentiments about

5399
03:25:09,960 --> 03:25:12,680
Jonathan's

5400
03:25:11,240 --> 03:25:14,120
assistance here. And quite frankly, the

5401
03:25:12,680 --> 03:25:15,360
the grounds of this appeal of kind of

5402
03:25:14,120 --> 03:25:18,920
our understanding of it have have

5403
03:25:15,360 --> 03:25:20,960
evolved. So, what we were appealing

5404
03:25:18,920 --> 03:25:22,280
is something as simple as an email which

5405
03:25:20,960 --> 03:25:23,520
originally came.

5406
03:25:22,280 --> 03:25:25,480
It said, I'm paraphrasing here and I

5407
03:25:23,520 --> 03:25:26,760
should have printed it out, but Jonathan

5408
03:25:25,480 --> 03:25:28,600
will correct me if I'm wrong, but

5409
03:25:26,760 --> 03:25:29,960
basically, staff has determined that

5410
03:25:28,600 --> 03:25:31,240
your deck is impervious and must be

5411
03:25:29,960 --> 03:25:33,240
removed.

5412
03:25:31,240 --> 03:25:35,280
That was the extent of it. So,

5413
03:25:33,240 --> 03:25:36,480
when Tom and I were preparing for this,

5414
03:25:35,280 --> 03:25:37,480
the the original thought was, "Okay,

5415
03:25:36,480 --> 03:25:38,920
well,

5416
03:25:37,480 --> 03:25:39,920
talking to Tom, is this a concrete

5417
03:25:38,920 --> 03:25:41,840
deck?" It

5418
03:25:39,920 --> 03:25:42,640
looks like a like a typical wooden deck

5419
03:25:41,840 --> 03:25:45,120
that

5420
03:25:42,640 --> 03:25:46,840
drains through into dirt. It It can't be

5421
03:25:45,120 --> 03:25:48,280
Well, our understanding evolved a little

5422
03:25:46,840 --> 03:25:49,400
bit and and Jonathan helped us with

5423
03:25:48,280 --> 03:25:51,240
that.

5424
03:25:49,400 --> 03:25:52,640
And it's really It's two legal questions

5425
03:25:51,240 --> 03:25:54,000
that we're here for

5426
03:25:52,640 --> 03:25:55,840
that are kind of preliminary threshold

5427
03:25:54,000 --> 03:25:58,680
issues. Uh

5428
03:25:55,840 --> 03:26:00,400
one of which is and this this centers

5429
03:25:58,680 --> 03:26:02,560
around the interpretation of several

5430
03:26:00,400 --> 03:26:05,400
different ordinances within the code.

5431
03:26:02,560 --> 03:26:07,360
And the question for the for the board

5432
03:26:05,400 --> 03:26:09,400
is whether the operative definitions are

5433
03:26:07,360 --> 03:26:11,000
ambiguous or not.

5434
03:26:09,400 --> 03:26:12,760
And uh

5435
03:26:11,000 --> 03:26:14,560
fortunately, the planning staff has

5436
03:26:12,760 --> 03:26:16,440
provided that answer. We're

5437
03:26:14,560 --> 03:26:18,400
We're in agreement on this. Um this

5438
03:26:16,440 --> 03:26:19,880
stems back to um

5439
03:26:18,400 --> 03:26:21,840
Director Dale

5440
03:26:19,880 --> 03:26:23,200
for some time has been trying to

5441
03:26:21,840 --> 03:26:25,640
come up with a solution to correct the

5442
03:26:23,200 --> 03:26:27,720
ambiguity in these ordinances. This This

5443
03:26:25,640 --> 03:26:29,560
dates back uh to

5444
03:26:27,720 --> 03:26:31,280
originally a planning director

5445
03:26:29,560 --> 03:26:33,160
determination. I'll get to the fact that

5446
03:26:31,280 --> 03:26:35,600
apparently it wasn't implemented, but

5447
03:26:33,160 --> 03:26:36,960
back October 30th, 2025,

5448
03:26:35,600 --> 03:26:38,800
and I'm quoting here

5449
03:26:36,960 --> 03:26:40,920
uh planning staff have identified

5450
03:26:38,800 --> 03:26:42,840
ambiguity in the zoning ordinance

5451
03:26:40,920 --> 03:26:45,400
regarding the definitions of driveway,

5452
03:26:42,840 --> 03:26:46,840
impervious, lot coverage, and how lot

5453
03:26:45,400 --> 03:26:47,960
coverage is applied. And obviously, the

5454
03:26:46,840 --> 03:26:49,680
two that are

5455
03:26:47,960 --> 03:26:51,000
uh relevant here are impervious and lot

5456
03:26:49,680 --> 03:26:52,640
coverage.

5457
03:26:51,000 --> 03:26:55,840
And then it goes on, one of the points

5458
03:26:52,640 --> 03:26:57,280
made is uh is is staff pointed to a

5459
03:26:55,840 --> 03:26:59,160
specific other subsection of the

5460
03:26:57,280 --> 03:27:02,040
ordinance that says

5461
03:26:59,160 --> 03:27:04,720
expressly that um

5462
03:27:02,040 --> 03:27:07,880
decking can be pervious.

5463
03:27:04,720 --> 03:27:10,040
And that contradicted

5464
03:27:07,880 --> 03:27:12,360
was the word and created ambiguity

5465
03:27:10,040 --> 03:27:13,720
regarding staff's interpretation, and

5466
03:27:12,360 --> 03:27:15,800
this is what we found out that the

5467
03:27:13,720 --> 03:27:18,640
definition of impervious surface under

5468
03:27:15,800 --> 03:27:21,280
the code as they interpreted it um meant

5469
03:27:18,640 --> 03:27:22,640
that all decks are impervious.

5470
03:27:21,280 --> 03:27:24,240
Uh that's not how we interpret it.

5471
03:27:22,640 --> 03:27:25,320
That's not a There's a better

5472
03:27:24,240 --> 03:27:27,120
interpretation. We're going to get to

5473
03:27:25,320 --> 03:27:28,880
that right now, but the question for the

5474
03:27:27,120 --> 03:27:30,400
board is whether or not

5475
03:27:28,880 --> 03:27:32,440
that definition

5476
03:27:30,400 --> 03:27:34,240
is ambiguous. And I'll read it to you.

5477
03:27:32,440 --> 03:27:36,600
It says, "Area covered by a material

5478
03:27:34,240 --> 03:27:38,880
that substantially reduces or prevents

5479
03:27:36,600 --> 03:27:41,080
the infiltration of storm water into

5480
03:27:38,880 --> 03:27:43,320
previously undeveloped land.

5481
03:27:41,080 --> 03:27:45,600
Impervious area shall include, but is

5482
03:27:43,320 --> 03:27:47,080
not limited to decks." I think it's fair

5483
03:27:45,600 --> 03:27:49,040
to assume that the the language, the

5484
03:27:47,080 --> 03:27:51,480
example, the illustrative example that

5485
03:27:49,040 --> 03:27:53,080
comes after the functional definition is

5486
03:27:51,480 --> 03:27:56,120
what's causing problems.

5487
03:27:53,080 --> 03:27:56,960
Clearly, the definition of impervious is

5488
03:27:56,120 --> 03:27:58,200
uh

5489
03:27:56,960 --> 03:27:59,440
it's a it's purely a functional

5490
03:27:58,200 --> 03:28:01,520
definition of whether or not this

5491
03:27:59,440 --> 03:28:03,040
material substantially reduces or

5492
03:28:01,520 --> 03:28:04,520
prevents the infiltration of storm

5493
03:28:03,040 --> 03:28:07,160
water.

5494
03:28:04,520 --> 03:28:09,280
"Impervious area shall include" means

5495
03:28:07,160 --> 03:28:11,400
that is an example of what can

5496
03:28:09,280 --> 03:28:13,680
constitute an impervious area. Does not

5497
03:28:11,400 --> 03:28:15,800
Does not the same thing as saying that

5498
03:28:13,680 --> 03:28:18,040
all decks are impervious. That's a

5499
03:28:15,800 --> 03:28:19,760
totally different thing. And so, what

5500
03:28:18,040 --> 03:28:21,960
staff did, to their credit, and again,

5501
03:28:19,760 --> 03:28:25,320
we're on the same page here,

5502
03:28:21,960 --> 03:28:27,280
March 4, 2026, uh Mr. Dale and uh

5503
03:28:25,320 --> 03:28:30,280
Director Dale in a memorandum to the

5504
03:28:27,280 --> 03:28:31,960
town BZA and Advisory Plan Commission,

5505
03:28:30,280 --> 03:28:34,440
actually went so far as to suggest that

5506
03:28:31,960 --> 03:28:36,440
the town council delete those two

5507
03:28:34,440 --> 03:28:38,400
definitions. The suggestion, the

5508
03:28:36,440 --> 03:28:41,240
recommendation was

5509
03:28:38,400 --> 03:28:43,640
um that impervious

5510
03:28:41,240 --> 03:28:45,360
and pervious, those two definitions

5511
03:28:43,640 --> 03:28:48,120
uh be completely de- deleted from the

5512
03:28:45,360 --> 03:28:50,680
code, and that lot coverage,

5513
03:28:48,120 --> 03:28:52,120
which is again under the current code,

5514
03:28:50,680 --> 03:28:53,080
what uh you know, lot coverage is a

5515
03:28:52,120 --> 03:28:54,320
function of the percentage that's

5516
03:28:53,080 --> 03:28:55,400
impervious,

5517
03:28:54,320 --> 03:28:57,040
but that lot coverage Should much

5518
03:28:55,400 --> 03:28:58,040
simpler definition.

5519
03:28:57,040 --> 03:28:59,560
That basically, we're going to take up

5520
03:28:58,040 --> 03:29:02,000
the whole area. It's a measure the

5521
03:28:59,560 --> 03:29:03,960
proposed definition was a measure of

5522
03:29:02,000 --> 03:29:06,320
intensity of land use that represents

5523
03:29:03,960 --> 03:29:07,920
the portion of a site that is impervious

5524
03:29:06,320 --> 03:29:10,120
the excuse that's current definition

5525
03:29:07,920 --> 03:29:11,560
scratch that. The the suggested

5526
03:29:10,120 --> 03:29:13,800
definition the sum of all applicable

5527
03:29:11,560 --> 03:29:15,960
driveways pathways parking lot

5528
03:29:13,800 --> 03:29:17,320
structures hardship and any other

5529
03:29:15,960 --> 03:29:18,160
material that would prohibit or impede

5530
03:29:17,320 --> 03:29:20,200
the

5531
03:29:18,160 --> 03:29:22,080
absorption of storm water.

5532
03:29:20,200 --> 03:29:23,840
Um

5533
03:29:22,080 --> 03:29:26,160
The question here for the board again

5534
03:29:23,840 --> 03:29:27,920
it's not whether or not

5535
03:29:26,160 --> 03:29:29,320
we're not asking what is the best

5536
03:29:27,920 --> 03:29:30,320
definition.

5537
03:29:29,320 --> 03:29:31,520
Um

5538
03:29:30,320 --> 03:29:33,080
We're not asking what the best policy

5539
03:29:31,520 --> 03:29:35,000
is. We're asking whether or not this is

5540
03:29:33,080 --> 03:29:36,760
ambiguous and the planning staff has

5541
03:29:35,000 --> 03:29:38,520
provided that answer and we are in

5542
03:29:36,760 --> 03:29:40,440
agreement. Both parties are in agreement

5543
03:29:38,520 --> 03:29:41,760
on the ambiguity of that statute.

5544
03:29:40,440 --> 03:29:42,800
So the question that came up and I think

5545
03:29:41,760 --> 03:29:44,480
what was driving this appeal is that

5546
03:29:42,800 --> 03:29:45,720
what what is it what is planning staff

5547
03:29:44,480 --> 03:29:47,000
supposed to do

5548
03:29:45,720 --> 03:29:49,120
with an ambiguous statute? How do they

5549
03:29:47,000 --> 03:29:50,680
get uniformity and how to do this?

5550
03:29:49,120 --> 03:29:52,760
That's the second legal question and the

5551
03:29:50,680 --> 03:29:54,280
Indiana Supreme Court has provided us

5552
03:29:52,760 --> 03:29:55,320
that answer as well.

5553
03:29:54,280 --> 03:29:56,960
Um

5554
03:29:55,320 --> 03:29:59,400
That answer and this is

5555
03:29:56,960 --> 03:30:00,920
Council explained goes back a long time

5556
03:29:59,400 --> 03:30:02,200
was zoning laws being in derogation of

5557
03:30:00,920 --> 03:30:03,920
the common law

5558
03:30:02,200 --> 03:30:05,760
if a zoning ordinance is susceptible to

5559
03:30:03,920 --> 03:30:08,480
more than one reasonable interpretation

5560
03:30:05,760 --> 03:30:10,040
it is ambiguous because zoning ordinance

5561
03:30:08,480 --> 03:30:11,240
restrict the free use of private

5562
03:30:10,040 --> 03:30:14,160
property

5563
03:30:11,240 --> 03:30:16,960
any ambiguity must be construed in favor

5564
03:30:14,160 --> 03:30:18,200
of the free use of land.

5565
03:30:16,960 --> 03:30:20,080
That is

5566
03:30:18,200 --> 03:30:21,080
black letter law in Indiana.

5567
03:30:20,080 --> 03:30:23,080
Um

5568
03:30:21,080 --> 03:30:25,600
and that's what we're asking the the

5569
03:30:23,080 --> 03:30:28,320
this board to do. If it finds this is if

5570
03:30:25,600 --> 03:30:30,080
if it finds that the definition is

5571
03:30:28,320 --> 03:30:31,440
ambiguous which all the parties agree

5572
03:30:30,080 --> 03:30:33,560
upon

5573
03:30:31,440 --> 03:30:35,680
the interpretation it must take for the

5574
03:30:33,560 --> 03:30:37,320
Supreme Court is the interpretation that

5575
03:30:35,680 --> 03:30:38,640
is the least restrictive to land. Not

5576
03:30:37,320 --> 03:30:40,560
what's best for policy not what

5577
03:30:38,640 --> 03:30:42,720
everybody would prefer it's just what is

5578
03:30:40,560 --> 03:30:44,360
the least restrictive. That is the law

5579
03:30:42,720 --> 03:30:45,760
in Indiana.

5580
03:30:44,360 --> 03:30:46,720
So our

5581
03:30:45,760 --> 03:30:49,360
our

5582
03:30:46,720 --> 03:30:50,960
interpretation again is of this the the

5583
03:30:49,360 --> 03:30:53,320
definition of impervious it's just this

5584
03:30:50,960 --> 03:30:54,520
is a functional test. If the town wanted

5585
03:30:53,320 --> 03:30:56,520
to write

5586
03:30:54,520 --> 03:30:59,000
an ordinance that said all decks are

5587
03:30:56,520 --> 03:31:01,160
impervious, it would have said so.

5588
03:30:59,000 --> 03:31:04,280
If it wanted to write an ordinance that

5589
03:31:01,160 --> 03:31:06,160
said that lot coverage wasn't just a

5590
03:31:04,280 --> 03:31:08,880
feature of impervious versus impervious

5591
03:31:06,160 --> 03:31:10,880
distinction, they wanted to

5592
03:31:08,880 --> 03:31:12,760
to say it's all decks are included in

5593
03:31:10,880 --> 03:31:14,640
lot coverage percentage, the town can

5594
03:31:12,760 --> 03:31:16,280
say that. The town hasn't.

5595
03:31:14,640 --> 03:31:19,600
Uh we're we're we're we have an

5596
03:31:16,280 --> 03:31:23,080
ambiguity. Uh it it must be

5597
03:31:19,600 --> 03:31:25,960
uh interpreted in favor of the free use

5598
03:31:23,080 --> 03:31:27,880
of land. And that is the basis of our

5599
03:31:25,960 --> 03:31:29,360
appeal. Now, I

5600
03:31:27,880 --> 03:31:30,440
staff report a couple things that came

5601
03:31:29,360 --> 03:31:32,680
up.

5602
03:31:30,440 --> 03:31:33,160
Uh just for the record, um

5603
03:31:32,680 --> 03:31:34,640
and [clears throat] we did do a

5604
03:31:33,160 --> 03:31:36,760
memorandum that supported some

5605
03:31:34,640 --> 03:31:38,320
authorities of what I'm saying here.

5606
03:31:36,760 --> 03:31:40,840
But uh one of the things we said, which

5607
03:31:38,320 --> 03:31:43,560
actually came originally from the

5608
03:31:40,840 --> 03:31:46,680
October 2025 memorandum that was pasted

5609
03:31:43,560 --> 03:31:48,360
into the staff report, was reference to

5610
03:31:46,680 --> 03:31:49,760
a rebuttable presumption test, which is

5611
03:31:48,360 --> 03:31:51,200
one of the things that was suggested of

5612
03:31:49,760 --> 03:31:53,360
how to deal with this.

5613
03:31:51,200 --> 03:31:55,560
That was a test that um

5614
03:31:53,360 --> 03:31:58,160
uh that the the director had proposed is

5615
03:31:55,560 --> 03:31:59,040
to basically look, we're going to um

5616
03:31:58,160 --> 03:32:01,920
uh

5617
03:31:59,040 --> 03:32:04,600
presume that it is an uh decks are

5618
03:32:01,920 --> 03:32:06,520
impervious surface unless you bring a

5619
03:32:04,600 --> 03:32:07,640
certified engineering plans, the

5620
03:32:06,520 --> 03:32:08,760
applicant does, showing that it's

5621
03:32:07,640 --> 03:32:11,400
pervious,

5622
03:32:08,760 --> 03:32:12,880
which pervious again actually is not

5623
03:32:11,400 --> 03:32:14,680
literally written as the exact opposite

5624
03:32:12,880 --> 03:32:15,960
of impervious, which is another flaw

5625
03:32:14,680 --> 03:32:18,040
with the ordinance.

5626
03:32:15,960 --> 03:32:19,640
But um but he did that and Jonathan

5627
03:32:18,040 --> 03:32:21,600
actually through our uh discussions, it

5628
03:32:19,640 --> 03:32:23,760
did make it into the site or the staff

5629
03:32:21,600 --> 03:32:25,680
report for the hearing, advised, and

5630
03:32:23,760 --> 03:32:27,360
I'll let him correct me if he disagrees,

5631
03:32:25,680 --> 03:32:29,640
but for our conversation, that was never

5632
03:32:27,360 --> 03:32:31,880
implemented. So, my understanding with

5633
03:32:29,640 --> 03:32:34,240
staff is just taking the position that

5634
03:32:31,880 --> 03:32:34,840
their hands are tied, that it is simply

5635
03:32:34,240 --> 03:32:38,000
um

5636
03:32:34,840 --> 03:32:39,760
uh that all decks are impervious. Um

5637
03:32:38,000 --> 03:32:41,120
again, that's that's that's the basis of

5638
03:32:39,760 --> 03:32:43,320
our appeal. There's nothing in the staff

5639
03:32:41,120 --> 03:32:45,400
report. I do have Mr. Bennett here to

5640
03:32:43,320 --> 03:32:49,200
speak to it and his contractor

5641
03:32:45,400 --> 03:32:52,360
um regarding the specific factual uh uh

5642
03:32:49,200 --> 03:32:55,160
issues pertaining to this deck and its

5643
03:32:52,360 --> 03:32:56,760
features, but uh I will

5644
03:32:55,160 --> 03:32:59,720
for the record let him make a few

5645
03:32:56,760 --> 03:33:02,280
comments if I can if I pause here.

5646
03:32:59,720 --> 03:33:05,280
Do you want to explain your deck town?

5647
03:33:02,280 --> 03:33:07,400
» Thank you, Chris. It is a 9 by 10 deck,

5648
03:33:05,280 --> 03:33:10,240
so it's not a very large deck.

5649
03:33:07,400 --> 03:33:13,120
Uh actually um with an overhang

5650
03:33:10,240 --> 03:33:14,080
according to the engineer that I

5651
03:33:13,120 --> 03:33:16,480
uh

5652
03:33:14,080 --> 03:33:19,080
procured per the again the city's

5653
03:33:16,480 --> 03:33:21,920
recommendation to get an expert as to

5654
03:33:19,080 --> 03:33:24,200
the perviousness or imperviousness of

5655
03:33:21,920 --> 03:33:25,960
the of the deck itself. It's actually

5656
03:33:24,200 --> 03:33:28,280
we're actually talking about 75 square

5657
03:33:25,960 --> 03:33:30,000
feet. Uh you can't see the overhang

5658
03:33:28,280 --> 03:33:31,520
there on the on that, but there is an

5659
03:33:30,000 --> 03:33:33,080
overhang.

5660
03:33:31,520 --> 03:33:34,360
Uh and that's actually the outside of

5661
03:33:33,080 --> 03:33:37,080
the deck. I actually have some other

5662
03:33:34,360 --> 03:33:39,480
pictures here that I didn't uh that uh

5663
03:33:37,080 --> 03:33:41,400
submit, but can at least uh distribute

5664
03:33:39,480 --> 03:33:43,000
to the to the board if you'd like to see

5665
03:33:41,400 --> 03:33:45,080
it. It rained quite a bit by the way

5666
03:33:43,000 --> 03:33:47,280
over the weekend. You probably

5667
03:33:45,080 --> 03:33:48,322
notice that. I did.

5668
03:33:47,280 --> 03:33:48,440
And uh

5669
03:33:48,322 --> 03:33:50,800
» [clears throat]

5670
03:33:48,440 --> 03:33:53,440
» And I actually took some pictures.

5671
03:33:50,800 --> 03:33:55,040
Uh uh so we the bottom of the deck as

5672
03:33:53,440 --> 03:33:57,520
you can see in that picture has not been

5673
03:33:55,040 --> 03:34:00,560
covered, so you can't see underneath the

5674
03:33:57,520 --> 03:34:03,400
deck currently. Uh and I have a picture

5675
03:34:00,560 --> 03:34:06,080
here after Saturday's rain and you

5676
03:34:03,400 --> 03:34:08,920
you'll see that it's just dirt. I mean

5677
03:34:06,080 --> 03:34:11,400
there's no pooling no puddling. Frankly,

5678
03:34:08,920 --> 03:34:13,480
if there was I wouldn't want, you know,

5679
03:34:11,400 --> 03:34:15,360
flooding by my house let alone through

5680
03:34:13,480 --> 03:34:17,480
the balance of the property.

5681
03:34:15,360 --> 03:34:19,040
It's a very nice deck. It looks very

5682
03:34:17,480 --> 03:34:21,480
nice. I think it it certainly adds to

5683
03:34:19,040 --> 03:34:24,080
the property. And um

5684
03:34:21,480 --> 03:34:26,200
you know, I'm happy to answer any

5685
03:34:24,080 --> 03:34:28,200
questions. I know it's late, so I

5686
03:34:26,200 --> 03:34:30,400
appreciate that again and don't want to

5687
03:34:28,200 --> 03:34:31,960
drone on too long, but I kind of like

5688
03:34:30,400 --> 03:34:34,520
it. It's I'm very and I'm very proud of

5689
03:34:31,960 --> 03:34:36,960
the work that my contractor did. Again,

5690
03:34:34,520 --> 03:34:38,600
I think I I one of the meetings uh I got

5691
03:34:36,960 --> 03:34:40,280
some compliments like you whoever gave

5692
03:34:38,600 --> 03:34:43,280
me those compliments about the property,

5693
03:34:40,280 --> 03:34:45,160
but I'm very proud of the property and

5694
03:34:43,280 --> 03:34:46,880
uh you know, with your accommodation,

5695
03:34:45,160 --> 03:34:49,880
hope that you folks can

5696
03:34:46,880 --> 03:34:51,200
see clear to allow the deck to to be in

5697
03:34:49,880 --> 03:34:53,600
place.

5698
03:34:51,200 --> 03:34:53,600
Thank you.

5699
03:34:55,240 --> 03:34:58,240
» Thank you.

5700
03:34:56,280 --> 03:34:59,080
» All right, thank you very much.

5701
03:34:58,240 --> 03:35:01,680
Um

5702
03:34:59,080 --> 03:35:04,520
just a little bit of background. Uh

5703
03:35:01,680 --> 03:35:06,640
our building inspectors uh when they

5704
03:35:04,520 --> 03:35:10,160
were on site

5705
03:35:06,640 --> 03:35:12,920
uh for another project, noticed this

5706
03:35:10,160 --> 03:35:15,640
deck and that there was no permit

5707
03:35:12,920 --> 03:35:17,720
granted for this structure. And so in

5708
03:35:15,640 --> 03:35:19,320
then doing the calculation

5709
03:35:17,720 --> 03:35:22,560
uh they said no, it doesn't look like

5710
03:35:19,320 --> 03:35:23,840
it's going to meet the standards for

5711
03:35:22,560 --> 03:35:25,000
uh

5712
03:35:23,840 --> 03:35:28,440
um

5713
03:35:25,000 --> 03:35:29,840
maximum lot coverage. So, um that's when

5714
03:35:28,440 --> 03:35:31,720
we had to make this determination about

5715
03:35:29,840 --> 03:35:33,920
this particular deck.

5716
03:35:31,720 --> 03:35:35,560
Um

5717
03:35:33,920 --> 03:35:37,480
if we were to look at the actual

5718
03:35:35,560 --> 03:35:39,680
language of our ordinance and we are I

5719
03:35:37,480 --> 03:35:41,960
think we have to implement the language

5720
03:35:39,680 --> 03:35:45,240
within our ordinance. However, it may

5721
03:35:41,960 --> 03:35:46,800
it may be flawed, but as staff, um we

5722
03:35:45,240 --> 03:35:48,400
have to look at what the letter of the

5723
03:35:46,800 --> 03:35:51,560
code says and

5724
03:35:48,400 --> 03:35:54,200
with in section 194.095

5725
03:35:51,560 --> 03:35:55,880
regarding urban accessory uses, and it

5726
03:35:54,200 --> 03:35:58,240
refers to uses. It says that it

5727
03:35:55,880 --> 03:36:00,400
indicates that decks must comply with

5728
03:35:58,240 --> 03:36:03,040
maximum lot coverage.

5729
03:36:00,400 --> 03:36:04,360
And again, the focus on uses is is is

5730
03:36:03,040 --> 03:36:07,080
that it's it's not focusing on

5731
03:36:04,360 --> 03:36:08,320
structures, it's focusing on uses.

5732
03:36:07,080 --> 03:36:10,320
Um

5733
03:36:08,320 --> 03:36:11,920
and it does doesn't also doesn't speak

5734
03:36:10,320 --> 03:36:13,320
to pervious or impervious, it speaks to

5735
03:36:11,920 --> 03:36:15,880
uses.

5736
03:36:13,320 --> 03:36:18,120
And so, if decks such as this one

5737
03:36:15,880 --> 03:36:20,240
um are allowed, then how should staff

5738
03:36:18,120 --> 03:36:21,600
determine when a deck is

5739
03:36:20,240 --> 03:36:23,040
pervious?

5740
03:36:21,600 --> 03:36:24,480
In other words,

5741
03:36:23,040 --> 03:36:26,600
it would be possible if if decks were

5742
03:36:24,480 --> 03:36:28,520
determined to be

5743
03:36:26,600 --> 03:36:30,240
pervious, allowing water to infiltrate,

5744
03:36:28,520 --> 03:36:31,440
then theoretically an entire yard could

5745
03:36:30,240 --> 03:36:33,040
be covered

5746
03:36:31,440 --> 03:36:35,080
with a deck

5747
03:36:33,040 --> 03:36:36,600
and it would not count towards lot

5748
03:36:35,080 --> 03:36:38,600
coverage. And is that really the intent

5749
03:36:36,600 --> 03:36:40,680
of the zoning ordinance?

5750
03:36:38,600 --> 03:36:43,040
Uh if we dig deeper in the definitions

5751
03:36:40,680 --> 03:36:44,320
for a zoning ordinance for for in this

5752
03:36:43,040 --> 03:36:46,400
case

5753
03:36:44,320 --> 03:36:48,920
uh and we look at the definition for

5754
03:36:46,400 --> 03:36:50,320
pervious surfaces. It's referring to

5755
03:36:48,920 --> 03:36:52,320
surfaces.

5756
03:36:50,320 --> 03:36:53,840
Pervious pervious surfaces are equated

5757
03:36:52,320 --> 03:36:56,200
to to be

5758
03:36:53,840 --> 03:36:57,920
equal to natural conditions. That's kind

5759
03:36:56,200 --> 03:37:00,400
of the gold standard

5760
03:36:57,920 --> 03:37:02,400
of what constitutes a pervious surface.

5761
03:37:00,400 --> 03:37:04,240
They are natural conditions.

5762
03:37:02,400 --> 03:37:05,640
Um or a material that allows

5763
03:37:04,240 --> 03:37:07,920
infiltration

5764
03:37:05,640 --> 03:37:10,240
or percolation of water in a manner

5765
03:37:07,920 --> 03:37:12,480
similar to natural conditions.

5766
03:37:10,240 --> 03:37:13,920
That is the definition for pervious

5767
03:37:12,480 --> 03:37:16,360
surfaces. They're equated natural

5768
03:37:13,920 --> 03:37:20,200
conditions or material. It's referring

5769
03:37:16,360 --> 03:37:22,200
to material that allows infiltration.

5770
03:37:20,200 --> 03:37:24,320
Another definition that's germane here

5771
03:37:22,200 --> 03:37:26,280
is that of lot coverage, which expressly

5772
03:37:24,320 --> 03:37:28,480
states that decks contribute toward lot

5773
03:37:26,280 --> 03:37:31,040
coverage to be calculated as part of lot

5774
03:37:28,480 --> 03:37:32,840
coverage. And then the third definition

5775
03:37:31,040 --> 03:37:35,320
that's relevant here is also the

5776
03:37:32,840 --> 03:37:37,840
definition of impervious surface. And

5777
03:37:35,320 --> 03:37:40,120
again, the term surface is used and is

5778
03:37:37,840 --> 03:37:42,680
equated to material

5779
03:37:40,120 --> 03:37:45,480
that substantially substantially reduces

5780
03:37:42,680 --> 03:37:47,000
or prevents stormwater infiltration into

5781
03:37:45,480 --> 03:37:50,280
soils.

5782
03:37:47,000 --> 03:37:51,600
So, an example of a pervious material

5783
03:37:50,280 --> 03:37:54,000
is sometimes we refer to these as

5784
03:37:51,600 --> 03:37:56,480
pavers, pervious pavers, that allow

5785
03:37:54,000 --> 03:37:58,880
water to actually uh

5786
03:37:56,480 --> 03:38:00,800
go past through the material or past

5787
03:37:58,880 --> 03:38:03,120
through the surface.

5788
03:38:00,800 --> 03:38:04,880
In this case, the proposed deck will not

5789
03:38:03,120 --> 03:38:06,920
allow water to pass through the deck

5790
03:38:04,880 --> 03:38:09,200
materials. The deck materials

5791
03:38:06,920 --> 03:38:11,240
themselves, in other words, the surface

5792
03:38:09,200 --> 03:38:12,600
is impervious.

5793
03:38:11,240 --> 03:38:15,080
Does not allow water to pass through the

5794
03:38:12,600 --> 03:38:17,240
deck materials, but rather allows water

5795
03:38:15,080 --> 03:38:18,800
to pass between

5796
03:38:17,240 --> 03:38:20,520
the materials, not through the

5797
03:38:18,800 --> 03:38:22,840
materials.

5798
03:38:20,520 --> 03:38:25,520
For any So, for any given area of this

5799
03:38:22,840 --> 03:38:27,560
deck the majority of the area is

5800
03:38:25,520 --> 03:38:29,520
impervious.

5801
03:38:27,560 --> 03:38:31,760
Meaning rainwater cannot penetrate or

5802
03:38:29,520 --> 03:38:34,080
pass through the deck boards or the deck

5803
03:38:31,760 --> 03:38:36,040
surface or deck materials as referenced

5804
03:38:34,080 --> 03:38:39,080
in the definitions for

5805
03:38:36,040 --> 03:38:40,800
pervious surface and impervious surface.

5806
03:38:39,080 --> 03:38:42,760
Therefore, the deck surface does

5807
03:38:40,800 --> 03:38:44,480
substantially reduce or prevent storm

5808
03:38:42,760 --> 03:38:47,040
water infiltration.

5809
03:38:44,480 --> 03:38:48,360
Just as for example, a roof a roof

5810
03:38:47,040 --> 03:38:51,400
structure

5811
03:38:48,360 --> 03:38:53,320
diverts water to a rain gutter system

5812
03:38:51,400 --> 03:38:55,360
that eventually that water eventually

5813
03:38:53,320 --> 03:38:57,720
penetrates the soil.

5814
03:38:55,360 --> 03:38:59,040
That does not mean the roof itself is

5815
03:38:57,720 --> 03:39:02,040
pervious.

5816
03:38:59,040 --> 03:39:03,680
It just means that the that water is

5817
03:39:02,040 --> 03:39:06,440
diverted

5818
03:39:03,680 --> 03:39:08,360
to uh to an area where there are soils

5819
03:39:06,440 --> 03:39:11,200
that can receive that water. And so,

5820
03:39:08,360 --> 03:39:13,800
therefore, roofs themselves also

5821
03:39:11,200 --> 03:39:17,040
should count toward lot coverage. We're

5822
03:39:13,800 --> 03:39:19,520
talking about surfaces and materials.

5823
03:39:17,040 --> 03:39:20,640
Um so, for these reasons

5824
03:39:19,520 --> 03:39:23,280
uh

5825
03:39:20,640 --> 03:39:25,200
staff has consistently counted decks

5826
03:39:23,280 --> 03:39:26,280
towards lot coverage.

5827
03:39:25,200 --> 03:39:29,880
Uh

5828
03:39:26,280 --> 03:39:29,880
And so, that's that's our position.

5829
03:39:31,840 --> 03:39:34,000
» Yeah.

5830
03:39:36,786 --> 03:39:38,806
» [laughter]

5831
03:39:38,920 --> 03:39:43,337
» This a fun one. For the last one of the

5832
03:39:40,800 --> 03:39:44,440
night is a really fun one, isn't it?

5833
03:39:43,337 --> 03:39:47,240
» [laughter]

5834
03:39:44,440 --> 03:39:48,600
» I I have to say your contractor has been

5835
03:39:47,240 --> 03:39:50,960
lovely.

5836
03:39:48,600 --> 03:39:52,240
And he's come through here and you're

5837
03:39:50,960 --> 03:39:53,520
wonderful.

5838
03:39:52,240 --> 03:39:57,440
Um

5839
03:39:53,520 --> 03:40:01,320
so, you did a good job picking him. But

5840
03:39:57,440 --> 03:40:01,320
» Thank you. He also made a nice deck.

5841
03:40:01,520 --> 03:40:05,400
And and and and if I may and I I don't

5842
03:40:03,560 --> 03:40:06,960
know the the process here, so forgive me

5843
03:40:05,400 --> 03:40:09,560
if I'm out of order. Just tell me if I

5844
03:40:06,960 --> 03:40:12,520
am. But I mean, we did we did submit a

5845
03:40:09,560 --> 03:40:15,360
report uh that in did indicate that the

5846
03:40:12,520 --> 03:40:16,800
water does flow through to the ground. I

5847
03:40:15,360 --> 03:40:18,920
admit, I mean, sure there's there's

5848
03:40:16,800 --> 03:40:20,600
decking there. I mean, yes, there's it

5849
03:40:18,920 --> 03:40:22,960
isn't it isn't straight going straight

5850
03:40:20,600 --> 03:40:25,560
to the ground. That that's obvious.

5851
03:40:22,960 --> 03:40:27,640
Uh it does flow through the seams. The

5852
03:40:25,560 --> 03:40:29,520
water does go through the seams. It's

5853
03:40:27,640 --> 03:40:31,600
just raw dirt right now. I have a

5854
03:40:29,520 --> 03:40:33,360
picture right now. I mean I I'm sorry. I

5855
03:40:31,600 --> 03:40:35,320
should have submitted it again. I didn't

5856
03:40:33,360 --> 03:40:37,760
follow all the processes. I apologize

5857
03:40:35,320 --> 03:40:40,480
for that. I'm a I am a first-timer here.

5858
03:40:37,760 --> 03:40:42,160
My contractors evidently charmed you.

5859
03:40:40,480 --> 03:40:45,040
So, appreciate that.

5860
03:40:42,160 --> 03:40:46,920
But I mean if if if the issue is that

5861
03:40:45,040 --> 03:40:48,880
there is a storm water concern or

5862
03:40:46,920 --> 03:40:51,280
something to that effect,

5863
03:40:48,880 --> 03:40:53,800
there is not a concern. I have an expert

5864
03:40:51,280 --> 03:40:55,600
that that said as much. And I have

5865
03:40:53,800 --> 03:40:57,120
pictures from the weekend and I can you

5866
03:40:55,600 --> 03:40:59,320
know you can see what when I took the

5867
03:40:57,120 --> 03:41:01,480
pictures etc. Not on not on the actual

5868
03:40:59,320 --> 03:41:03,680
pictures, but I could submit the timing

5869
03:41:01,480 --> 03:41:07,160
of those pictures and you could see I

5870
03:41:03,680 --> 03:41:08,760
mean it rained a lot this weekend and uh

5871
03:41:07,160 --> 03:41:09,600
there is not a problem underneath my

5872
03:41:08,760 --> 03:41:12,040
deck.

5873
03:41:09,600 --> 03:41:12,040
» Thank you.

5874
03:41:12,520 --> 03:41:14,520
Do you guys have any questions for staff

5875
03:41:14,040 --> 03:41:16,720
or

5876
03:41:14,520 --> 03:41:18,600
» Well, it

5877
03:41:16,720 --> 03:41:21,040
in the

5878
03:41:18,600 --> 03:41:23,920
appellant's uh

5879
03:41:21,040 --> 03:41:25,240
testimony, they were quoting Mr. Dale on

5880
03:41:23,920 --> 03:41:27,160
some things where I think I was in the

5881
03:41:25,240 --> 03:41:29,880
room where he was speaking and I just

5882
03:41:27,160 --> 03:41:30,840
want to try to remember the context.

5883
03:41:29,880 --> 03:41:32,680
But

5884
03:41:30,840 --> 03:41:34,880
Mr. Dale, if you'd remind me when you

5885
03:41:32,680 --> 03:41:38,000
were talking about doing away with

5886
03:41:34,880 --> 03:41:40,040
definitions and doing everything, were

5887
03:41:38,000 --> 03:41:42,960
you trying to address

5888
03:41:40,040 --> 03:41:44,640
whether or not decks were included or

5889
03:41:42,960 --> 03:41:47,040
were you trying to address whether or

5890
03:41:44,640 --> 03:41:49,240
not we should be including driveways?

5891
03:41:47,040 --> 03:41:50,800
» I think actually we're discussing trying

5892
03:41:49,240 --> 03:41:52,080
to get away from this whole conversation

5893
03:41:50,800 --> 03:41:53,560
of what constitutes pervious and

5894
03:41:52,080 --> 03:41:55,480
impervious.

5895
03:41:53,560 --> 03:41:57,600
Because we're getting just caught up in

5896
03:41:55,480 --> 03:41:59,600
that whole you know circular circular

5897
03:41:57,600 --> 03:42:02,040
reasoning of is it pervious is it

5898
03:41:59,600 --> 03:42:03,840
impervious and then if it's

5899
03:42:02,040 --> 03:42:07,800
if it is

5900
03:42:03,840 --> 03:42:09,400
uh if it's impervious, then that has big

5901
03:42:07,800 --> 03:42:10,760
implications for how we calculate lot

5902
03:42:09,400 --> 03:42:12,440
coverage.

5903
03:42:10,760 --> 03:42:13,440
» And I think also the important fact is

5904
03:42:12,440 --> 03:42:15,160
that

5905
03:42:13,440 --> 03:42:16,400
that never got implemented.

5906
03:42:15,160 --> 03:42:20,440
» Right. And so what we decided to say

5907
03:42:16,400 --> 03:42:22,960
well, rather than try to uh

5908
03:42:20,440 --> 03:42:24,560
uh you know wrestle ourselves into an

5909
03:42:22,960 --> 03:42:26,640
interpretation

5910
03:42:24,560 --> 03:42:28,840
given the, you know, the difficulties

5911
03:42:26,640 --> 03:42:30,440
with the ordinance. We We said we'd

5912
03:42:28,840 --> 03:42:32,520
table the matter and instead we'll work

5913
03:42:30,440 --> 03:42:35,120
on changing the ordinance.

5914
03:42:32,520 --> 03:42:36,400
So, yes, that the the the workaround, so

5915
03:42:35,120 --> 03:42:38,040
to speak, that we had written up, we

5916
03:42:36,400 --> 03:42:39,640
never implemented

5917
03:42:38,040 --> 03:42:41,240
um because uh

5918
03:42:39,640 --> 03:42:43,120
we thought it you know, sometimes doing

5919
03:42:41,240 --> 03:42:44,280
that just presents a whole set of series

5920
03:42:43,120 --> 03:42:46,240
of consequences, unintended

5921
03:42:44,280 --> 03:42:48,800
consequences, rather than just fixing

5922
03:42:46,240 --> 03:42:48,800
the ordinance.

5923
03:42:51,280 --> 03:42:55,920
» I might just say I

5924
03:42:52,920 --> 03:42:57,600
I agree with some of the

5925
03:42:55,920 --> 03:42:59,160
information submitted by the petitioner

5926
03:42:57,600 --> 03:43:00,600
from a legal angle. I disagree with some

5927
03:42:59,160 --> 03:43:02,720
others. I just want to talk about that

5928
03:43:00,600 --> 03:43:05,360
for a minute. I think that the

5929
03:43:02,720 --> 03:43:07,280
petitioner makes a good point that

5930
03:43:05,360 --> 03:43:09,880
uh in your ordinance, there's a

5931
03:43:07,280 --> 03:43:11,560
definition for impervious and there's a

5932
03:43:09,880 --> 03:43:13,040
definition of pervious and they're right

5933
03:43:11,560 --> 03:43:15,640
in front of you.

5934
03:43:13,040 --> 03:43:17,400
But, they are not mutually exclusive. I

5935
03:43:15,640 --> 03:43:20,240
think that's a very good point and their

5936
03:43:17,400 --> 03:43:22,560
expert in their letter in his letter

5937
03:43:20,240 --> 03:43:26,440
said that what you have here in this

5938
03:43:22,560 --> 03:43:28,320
particular deck is a semi a semi

5939
03:43:26,440 --> 03:43:31,240
pervious uh

5940
03:43:28,320 --> 03:43:33,160
system because it's the deck planks,

5941
03:43:31,240 --> 03:43:35,880
then gaps, then deck planks, and gaps.

5942
03:43:33,160 --> 03:43:37,640
And I thought I thought that the expert

5943
03:43:35,880 --> 03:43:39,720
uh that they submitted maybe gave the

5944
03:43:37,640 --> 03:43:42,200
best description of what we really have

5945
03:43:39,720 --> 03:43:44,400
help happening. It's a deck system. It's

5946
03:43:42,200 --> 03:43:47,280
neither solid

5947
03:43:44,400 --> 03:43:48,880
you know, decking, nor is it

5948
03:43:47,280 --> 03:43:50,760
and nor is there a 4-in gap between the

5949
03:43:48,880 --> 03:43:53,040
planks. Okay? I thought that was a good

5950
03:43:50,760 --> 03:43:55,000
point. We're dealing with something kind

5951
03:43:53,040 --> 03:43:57,680
of in the middle of the two definitions

5952
03:43:55,000 --> 03:43:58,800
because they are not mutually exclusive.

5953
03:43:57,680 --> 03:44:00,360
So, but I'll [snorts] just say a couple

5954
03:43:58,800 --> 03:44:02,720
things. First of all,

5955
03:44:00,360 --> 03:44:04,640
uh although I certainly supported what

5956
03:44:02,720 --> 03:44:07,280
Mike and staff were trying to do to get

5957
03:44:04,640 --> 03:44:08,800
away from a difficult ordinance to

5958
03:44:07,280 --> 03:44:10,440
administer, that was not actually

5959
03:44:08,800 --> 03:44:12,640
accomplished.

5960
03:44:10,440 --> 03:44:14,080
The board is stuck with the ordinance we

5961
03:44:12,640 --> 03:44:16,240
have.

5962
03:44:14,080 --> 03:44:18,840
And I I don't agree

5963
03:44:16,240 --> 03:44:21,280
that the uh I don't agree that the

5964
03:44:18,840 --> 03:44:23,520
ordinance is ambiguous.

5965
03:44:21,280 --> 03:44:25,120
I think it may not have engineering

5966
03:44:23,520 --> 03:44:26,320
precision.

5967
03:44:25,120 --> 03:44:27,960
It'd be great if there was just a

5968
03:44:26,320 --> 03:44:30,440
drainage coefficient and said that if

5969
03:44:27,960 --> 03:44:32,680
the deck system can drain a certain

5970
03:44:30,440 --> 03:44:35,200
amount of water at a certain rate, then

5971
03:44:32,680 --> 03:44:37,800
it's pervious. Be great if that's That'd

5972
03:44:35,200 --> 03:44:40,040
be perfect. But we don't have that.

5973
03:44:37,800 --> 03:44:42,320
The question is before the board is

5974
03:44:40,040 --> 03:44:46,000
whether this deck system

5975
03:44:42,320 --> 03:44:48,160
um substantially reduces

5976
03:44:46,000 --> 03:44:51,320
or prevents the infiltration of storm

5977
03:44:48,160 --> 03:44:53,920
water into a previously, you know,

5978
03:44:51,320 --> 03:44:58,080
previously undeveloped land.

5979
03:44:53,920 --> 03:45:00,320
So, it isn't whether the deck system

5980
03:44:58,080 --> 03:45:03,560
impedes at all.

5981
03:45:00,320 --> 03:45:06,440
It's it it Your our ordinance says

5982
03:45:03,560 --> 03:45:08,920
does it substantially reduce or prevent

5983
03:45:06,440 --> 03:45:10,680
the infiltration of water?

5984
03:45:08,920 --> 03:45:12,320
I think under, you know, that's what the

5985
03:45:10,680 --> 03:45:14,160
ordinance says and I think that's the

5986
03:45:12,320 --> 03:45:15,360
determination that the board has to

5987
03:45:14,160 --> 03:45:18,000
make.

5988
03:45:15,360 --> 03:45:19,960
Uh staff said they thought I mean, they

5989
03:45:18,000 --> 03:45:22,000
they they they said, "Yeah, we think

5990
03:45:19,960 --> 03:45:23,200
it's we think it's impervious."

5991
03:45:22,000 --> 03:45:24,680
The petitioner says, "No, this is

5992
03:45:23,200 --> 03:45:26,800
pervious."

5993
03:45:24,680 --> 03:45:28,840
And I But I think that just to make sure

5994
03:45:26,800 --> 03:45:30,440
that we're using the words of the

5995
03:45:28,840 --> 03:45:32,640
ordinance,

5996
03:45:30,440 --> 03:45:34,880
it says that you in order to support

5997
03:45:32,640 --> 03:45:37,280
staff, you would have to find that the

5998
03:45:34,880 --> 03:45:38,880
deck system before you substantially

5999
03:45:37,280 --> 03:45:41,000
reduces

6000
03:45:38,880 --> 03:45:43,840
or prevents. Those are the magic words

6001
03:45:41,000 --> 03:45:47,160
here. Substantially reduce or prevents.

6002
03:45:43,840 --> 03:45:49,360
If you find that it doesn't,

6003
03:45:47,160 --> 03:45:51,400
if you find that the deck system as a

6004
03:45:49,360 --> 03:45:52,840
whole does not,

6005
03:45:51,400 --> 03:45:53,920
then I think that I think the petitioner

6006
03:45:52,840 --> 03:45:55,800
is right.

6007
03:45:53,920 --> 03:45:56,960
» May I respond real quickly, counselor

6008
03:45:55,800 --> 03:45:59,040
Madam Chair?

6009
03:45:56,960 --> 03:46:00,760
Because just to clarify for the record,

6010
03:45:59,040 --> 03:46:02,320
what what what counsel just said is

6011
03:46:00,760 --> 03:46:04,840
exactly what we're saying. So, when he

6012
03:46:02,320 --> 03:46:07,120
said When I say it's it's it's it's

6013
03:46:04,840 --> 03:46:09,640
I'm happy to say that it's unambiguous

6014
03:46:07,120 --> 03:46:11,520
that that first sentence about that that

6015
03:46:09,640 --> 03:46:13,640
definition controls. That's our

6016
03:46:11,520 --> 03:46:16,160
position. I think the better way of

6017
03:46:13,640 --> 03:46:19,000
saying it is at worst case, it's

6018
03:46:16,160 --> 03:46:20,560
ambiguous as to the staff's position

6019
03:46:19,000 --> 03:46:21,600
that all decks are impervious. That's

6020
03:46:20,560 --> 03:46:22,480
the point I'm trying to make.

6021
03:46:21,600 --> 03:46:23,840
» And I agree with that.

6022
03:46:22,480 --> 03:46:25,640
» And that is that is what the Supreme

6023
03:46:23,840 --> 03:46:27,600
Court is telling us we cannot do.

6024
03:46:25,640 --> 03:46:29,520
» I I just don't want the board to be

6025
03:46:27,600 --> 03:46:30,040
confused about what their job is here

6026
03:46:29,520 --> 03:46:30,680
tonight.

6027
03:46:30,040 --> 03:46:32,120
» Understood. Yes, sir.

6028
03:46:30,680 --> 03:46:35,640
» So, I'm not disagreeing with that, but

6029
03:46:32,120 --> 03:46:38,720
the question before them is whether

6030
03:46:35,640 --> 03:46:40,400
when the staff said your client couldn't

6031
03:46:38,720 --> 03:46:42,920
build that deck that way without

6032
03:46:40,400 --> 03:46:44,360
violating lot coverage, were they right?

6033
03:46:42,920 --> 03:46:46,920
And in order to do that, we have to go

6034
03:46:44,360 --> 03:46:49,400
right back to this particular deck and

6035
03:46:46,920 --> 03:46:50,760
figure this out. Um the other thing I

6036
03:46:49,400 --> 03:46:52,120
would say

6037
03:46:50,760 --> 03:46:54,640
is

6038
03:46:52,120 --> 03:46:55,960
uh as I mentioned, it would be nice if

6039
03:46:54,640 --> 03:46:58,000
we had some other way to go about it,

6040
03:46:55,960 --> 03:47:00,960
but under the definitions we have, which

6041
03:46:58,000 --> 03:47:02,840
is the law in Zionsville, the zoning

6042
03:47:00,960 --> 03:47:04,840
ordinance is the law.

6043
03:47:02,840 --> 03:47:06,360
Unfortunately, Mike, I love I respect

6044
03:47:04,840 --> 03:47:08,560
you a great deal, but Mike's memo is not

6045
03:47:06,360 --> 03:47:11,240
the law nor an ordinance.

6046
03:47:08,560 --> 03:47:12,680
Uh we are stuck with the definition we

6047
03:47:11,240 --> 03:47:16,040
have.

6048
03:47:12,680 --> 03:47:19,280
And again, I believe the board can make

6049
03:47:16,040 --> 03:47:22,000
a judgment about whether this particular

6050
03:47:19,280 --> 03:47:24,720
deck is impervious. I really think that

6051
03:47:22,000 --> 03:47:27,600
you can make that judgment uh based upon

6052
03:47:24,720 --> 03:47:29,800
the definition because the definition

6053
03:47:27,600 --> 03:47:31,680
doesn't say does it reduce the flow of

6054
03:47:29,800 --> 03:47:33,120
water at all.

6055
03:47:31,680 --> 03:47:36,200
Doesn't say that.

6056
03:47:33,120 --> 03:47:38,000
Whether the deck substantially reduces

6057
03:47:36,200 --> 03:47:39,480
or prevents the infiltration of storm

6058
03:47:38,000 --> 03:47:41,760
water

6059
03:47:39,480 --> 03:47:43,240
into previously unbuilt land. And see,

6060
03:47:41,760 --> 03:47:45,280
that's a little bit of a different

6061
03:47:43,240 --> 03:47:46,680
standard than saying,

6062
03:47:45,280 --> 03:47:48,240
you know, does any water come through at

6063
03:47:46,680 --> 03:47:50,240
all? I think it's a I think it's a

6064
03:47:48,240 --> 03:47:52,800
pretty I think it makes it easier if you

6065
03:47:50,240 --> 03:47:54,760
remember the word substantially. That

6066
03:47:52,800 --> 03:47:57,360
really makes the analysis a little

6067
03:47:54,760 --> 03:47:57,360
easier.

6068
03:47:57,520 --> 03:48:00,400
So, there. I just wanted to say that.

6069
03:47:58,760 --> 03:48:01,680
» No, thank you.

6070
03:48:00,400 --> 03:48:02,720
Um

6071
03:48:01,680 --> 03:48:03,440
Did you want to say something, Jonathan?

6072
03:48:02,720 --> 03:48:05,120
I'm sorry.

6073
03:48:03,440 --> 03:48:06,360
» I was just going to Can I ask you a

6074
03:48:05,120 --> 03:48:07,440
question?

6075
03:48:06,360 --> 03:48:09,880
Um

6076
03:48:07,440 --> 03:48:11,040
it's 10:15, so I'm my brain may just be

6077
03:48:09,880 --> 03:48:12,120
a little foggy.

6078
03:48:11,040 --> 03:48:14,520
» Mhm. I'm I'm glad I'm up

6079
03:48:12,120 --> 03:48:16,080
» Did I hear you correctly in saying that

6080
03:48:14,520 --> 03:48:18,880
based off the

6081
03:48:16,080 --> 03:48:22,560
definitions that we have,

6082
03:48:18,880 --> 03:48:24,720
we should not be classifying all decks

6083
03:48:22,560 --> 03:48:26,120
as impervious?

6084
03:48:24,720 --> 03:48:27,520
» I agree with that because I agree with

6085
03:48:26,120 --> 03:48:29,640
the petitioner when they say that the

6086
03:48:27,520 --> 03:48:30,840
definition is functional. I absolutely

6087
03:48:29,640 --> 03:48:34,440
agree with that. I don't think there's

6088
03:48:30,840 --> 03:48:36,440
any other way to read it. I also agree

6089
03:48:34,440 --> 03:48:38,600
with the uh

6090
03:48:36,440 --> 03:48:41,840
grammatical construction

6091
03:48:38,600 --> 03:48:44,200
that um decks are listed as something

6092
03:48:41,840 --> 03:48:46,400
which can be impervious.

6093
03:48:44,200 --> 03:48:47,800
Including it there, if you read it to

6094
03:48:46,400 --> 03:48:49,320
say

6095
03:48:47,800 --> 03:48:50,840
if you read it to say all decks are

6096
03:48:49,320 --> 03:48:52,520
impervious,

6097
03:48:50,840 --> 03:48:53,840
it it does ignore the definition of

6098
03:48:52,520 --> 03:48:55,960
impervious, and I actually agree with

6099
03:48:53,840 --> 03:48:59,040
the petitioner about that. I actually

6100
03:48:55,960 --> 03:49:02,040
do. I think the analysis is

6101
03:48:59,040 --> 03:49:04,160
is this deck impervious?

6102
03:49:02,040 --> 03:49:05,600
And some decks are impervious, and some

6103
03:49:04,160 --> 03:49:08,040
are not. And it has to do with the

6104
03:49:05,600 --> 03:49:09,360
spacing between the the slats, and I

6105
03:49:08,040 --> 03:49:12,000
think that's what the definition

6106
03:49:09,360 --> 03:49:13,280
requires the staff to do, but

6107
03:49:12,000 --> 03:49:15,560
more importantly tonight, I think that's

6108
03:49:13,280 --> 03:49:17,160
what it requires the board to do is to

6109
03:49:15,560 --> 03:49:19,320
make a judgment about whether or not

6110
03:49:17,160 --> 03:49:22,000
there is

6111
03:49:19,320 --> 03:49:24,520
or is not a substantial reduction

6112
03:49:22,000 --> 03:49:25,800
or prevention of infiltration.

6113
03:49:24,520 --> 03:49:28,080
And I think that's what the definition

6114
03:49:25,800 --> 03:49:31,520
says, and that is the law we are stuck

6115
03:49:28,080 --> 03:49:31,800
with because that's our law.

6116
03:49:31,520 --> 03:49:33,640
» Can I

6117
03:49:31,800 --> 03:49:36,000
» Madam Chair, if I can make a a motion or

6118
03:49:33,640 --> 03:49:38,240
a request, rather, to something here.

6119
03:49:36,000 --> 03:49:40,360
So, what what we asked with Mr. Smith,

6120
03:49:38,240 --> 03:49:42,120
with Jonathan before, this is basically

6121
03:49:40,360 --> 03:49:45,600
I understand Mr. Dale's

6122
03:49:42,120 --> 03:49:46,840
uh suggested procedure is not the law,

6123
03:49:45,600 --> 03:49:49,000
but what he had suggested back in

6124
03:49:46,840 --> 03:49:50,160
October of 2025

6125
03:49:49,000 --> 03:49:52,760
was that

6126
03:49:50,160 --> 03:49:54,840
an applicant could submit certified

6127
03:49:52,760 --> 03:49:56,760
engineering plans that would show that

6128
03:49:54,840 --> 03:49:58,760
the deck is

6129
03:49:56,760 --> 03:50:02,280
pervious or not impervious. That is a

6130
03:49:58,760 --> 03:50:03,520
better way to put it. Um I asked uh

6131
03:50:02,280 --> 03:50:06,040
for the opportunity before this hearing

6132
03:50:03,520 --> 03:50:07,160
to do that. To say, "Can Can we Can we

6133
03:50:06,040 --> 03:50:08,880
Can we discuss that with planning

6134
03:50:07,160 --> 03:50:11,120
staff?" And I think, and I don't want to

6135
03:50:08,880 --> 03:50:12,120
speak for for Jonathan, so he'll correct

6136
03:50:11,120 --> 03:50:13,720
He'll be He'll be free to correct me if

6137
03:50:12,120 --> 03:50:16,160
I'm wrong. I think his problem was there

6138
03:50:13,720 --> 03:50:19,120
was a threshold issue with his office

6139
03:50:16,160 --> 03:50:21,120
about whether or not um, all decks were

6140
03:50:19,120 --> 03:50:22,080
impervious as written. And I think that

6141
03:50:21,120 --> 03:50:23,760
uh

6142
03:50:22,080 --> 03:50:25,200
I agree with council or with with with

6143
03:50:23,760 --> 03:50:27,400
with with the city council or the town's

6144
03:50:25,200 --> 03:50:29,000
council, excuse me, that um

6145
03:50:27,400 --> 03:50:31,520
that they're not. And what I'd ask for

6146
03:50:29,000 --> 03:50:34,160
is let's do that process. Give us 30

6147
03:50:31,520 --> 03:50:36,080
days, reset this hearing, let us come up

6148
03:50:34,160 --> 03:50:38,320
with certified engineering plans, let us

6149
03:50:36,080 --> 03:50:39,480
talk to planning. If they're satisfied,

6150
03:50:38,320 --> 03:50:41,520
maybe we agree and this appeal goes

6151
03:50:39,480 --> 03:50:42,800
away. If they're not satisfied, we come

6152
03:50:41,520 --> 03:50:44,720
back here and ask you to make a factual

6153
03:50:42,800 --> 03:50:47,560
determination. That's my request before

6154
03:50:44,720 --> 03:50:48,320
the board tonight. And to go home.

6155
03:50:47,560 --> 03:50:50,480
» I think

6156
03:50:48,320 --> 03:50:52,040
I would just I think that's a very uh a

6157
03:50:50,480 --> 03:50:54,960
good request, which gets us to the

6158
03:50:52,040 --> 03:50:55,640
facts, which is what we all want.

6159
03:50:54,960 --> 03:50:56,840
» And can I

6160
03:50:55,640 --> 03:50:58,400
» And unless the board doesn't think it

6161
03:50:56,840 --> 03:50:59,440
needs that, but I mean, I do think

6162
03:50:58,400 --> 03:51:01,720
that's a good request.

6163
03:50:59,440 --> 03:51:03,920
» I I would just would like to say while

6164
03:51:01,720 --> 03:51:06,560
your contractor charmed me,

6165
03:51:03,920 --> 03:51:08,480
uh I actually

6166
03:51:06,560 --> 03:51:11,520
voted against this when you first came

6167
03:51:08,480 --> 03:51:13,280
through. When they granted you to take

6168
03:51:11,520 --> 03:51:15,800
over additional, they all actually

6169
03:51:13,280 --> 03:51:17,920
approved this. I I said no

6170
03:51:15,800 --> 03:51:20,240
because of flooding issues and I I

6171
03:51:17,920 --> 03:51:21,640
didn't I disagreed. But

6172
03:51:20,240 --> 03:51:23,880
so

6173
03:51:21,640 --> 03:51:25,520
the reason why it came back is because

6174
03:51:23,880 --> 03:51:28,360
you guys put a structure on there that

6175
03:51:25,520 --> 03:51:30,520
wasn't approved, um, that didn't go

6176
03:51:28,360 --> 03:51:34,640
through, you know, that process and was

6177
03:51:30,520 --> 03:51:37,200
flagged, you know, on the random. So,

6178
03:51:34,640 --> 03:51:39,080
um, when it came back through, the

6179
03:51:37,200 --> 03:51:40,200
position for me was still no. So, for

6180
03:51:39,080 --> 03:51:43,560
me,

6181
03:51:40,200 --> 03:51:43,560
you know, this is

6182
03:51:43,680 --> 03:51:47,760
you know, there was there was already

6183
03:51:45,320 --> 03:51:51,000
additional grant that was given. I am

6184
03:51:47,760 --> 03:51:53,960
fine with a continuous a continuance to

6185
03:51:51,000 --> 03:51:56,320
have them do um

6186
03:51:53,960 --> 03:51:59,680
have an engineer, you know, and if that

6187
03:51:56,320 --> 03:52:01,000
satisfies staff, but um

6188
03:51:59,680 --> 03:52:04,080
I think we're forgetting that we already

6189
03:52:01,000 --> 03:52:04,800
granted them.

6190
03:52:04,080 --> 03:52:07,480
Right?

6191
03:52:04,800 --> 03:52:10,000
» They were denied as I understand.

6192
03:52:07,480 --> 03:52:12,280
» No, this last time, but the first time.

6193
03:52:10,000 --> 03:52:13,920
This is the second time. So, they were

6194
03:52:12,280 --> 03:52:15,080
granted it. They came back because of

6195
03:52:13,920 --> 03:52:16,960
the flagging of the decks.

6196
03:52:15,080 --> 03:52:18,440
» Madam Chair, we were denied a variance,

6197
03:52:16,960 --> 03:52:20,600
which is an entirely different legal

6198
03:52:18,440 --> 03:52:22,920
standard, an entirely different burden

6199
03:52:20,600 --> 03:52:25,280
of review than what the issue is before

6200
03:52:22,920 --> 03:52:26,160
today. The position that we're we're

6201
03:52:25,280 --> 03:52:27,920
taking

6202
03:52:26,160 --> 03:52:29,760
» We granted you

6203
03:52:27,920 --> 03:52:31,800
you were granted the ability to do the

6204
03:52:29,760 --> 03:52:34,720
addition, and the only reason why you

6205
03:52:31,800 --> 03:52:37,000
came back for the variance was because

6206
03:52:34,720 --> 03:52:41,400
you made a deck without approval.

6207
03:52:37,000 --> 03:52:41,400
So, just to be clear here. Yeah.

6208
03:52:42,560 --> 03:52:48,640
I'm fine. I I agree. I'm fine with if if

6209
03:52:45,120 --> 03:52:50,320
you guys all think that you know.

6210
03:52:48,640 --> 03:52:51,840
» I have no problem giving a continuance

6211
03:52:50,320 --> 03:52:53,200
to kind of get some more factual

6212
03:52:51,840 --> 03:52:56,200
information for us to make a

6213
03:52:53,200 --> 03:52:56,200
determination.

6214
03:52:56,600 --> 03:52:59,560
» Is your problem just that we're going

6215
03:52:57,960 --> 03:53:01,240
backwards?

6216
03:52:59,560 --> 03:53:03,000
You don't like that. Okay.

6217
03:53:01,240 --> 03:53:05,920
» Yeah, and I agree.

6218
03:53:03,000 --> 03:53:07,600
It wasn't done It wasn't done correctly.

6219
03:53:05,920 --> 03:53:09,120
» But now that it's there and

6220
03:53:07,600 --> 03:53:11,400
» Well, it may be different for you guys

6221
03:53:09,120 --> 03:53:13,320
because you guys approved it from the

6222
03:53:11,400 --> 03:53:14,320
start, and I was

6223
03:53:13,320 --> 03:53:15,400
on the other side of

6224
03:53:14,320 --> 03:53:16,640
» Project, not the deck.

6225
03:53:15,400 --> 03:53:18,520
» Yeah, the larger project, right,

6226
03:53:16,640 --> 03:53:20,280
exactly. So,

6227
03:53:18,520 --> 03:53:22,120
» Of course, I have to say,

6228
03:53:20,280 --> 03:53:24,320
and I was here, too.

6229
03:53:22,120 --> 03:53:25,000
But yeah, we can't consider all that.

6230
03:53:24,320 --> 03:53:25,880
» Yeah, but we can

6231
03:53:25,000 --> 03:53:27,991
» Right for a minute.

6232
03:53:25,880 --> 03:53:29,440
» It's okay to vent, but we have to

6233
03:53:27,991 --> 03:53:30,240
[laughter] stop and still make the

6234
03:53:29,440 --> 03:53:32,680
decision.

6235
03:53:30,240 --> 03:53:35,680
» Mr. Mr. Mr. Bennett would have jacked if

6236
03:53:32,680 --> 03:53:38,240
I did not say we can't consider that

6237
03:53:35,680 --> 03:53:40,200
when we make a decision on this appeal.

6238
03:53:38,240 --> 03:53:42,480
» If there were there were bricks in

6239
03:53:40,200 --> 03:53:43,880
there, and we were worried about water

6240
03:53:42,480 --> 03:53:45,080
and flooding and all of that. So, now

6241
03:53:43,880 --> 03:53:46,600
there's a harder structure. If there

6242
03:53:45,080 --> 03:53:47,680
were any kind of I mean, they're already

6243
03:53:46,600 --> 03:53:49,040
back to impervious and impervious.

6244
03:53:47,680 --> 03:53:50,400
» I know, but I'm just saying we really

6245
03:53:49,040 --> 03:53:52,227
have to

6246
03:53:50,400 --> 03:53:52,960
We have the somewhat forget all that.

6247
03:53:52,227 --> 03:53:56,280
» [laughter]

6248
03:53:52,960 --> 03:53:59,080
» And that the nature of too often of this

6249
03:53:56,280 --> 03:54:00,320
role that we play for the town is we

6250
03:53:59,080 --> 03:54:03,080
have to figure out all that and rule on

6251
03:54:00,320 --> 03:54:04,480
what's in front of us. Uh

6252
03:54:03,080 --> 03:54:07,280
Uh I

6253
03:54:04,480 --> 03:54:10,320
I move for a continuance so that the

6254
03:54:07,280 --> 03:54:13,080
petitioner has a chance to provide

6255
03:54:10,320 --> 03:54:16,400
engineering drawings to convince either

6256
03:54:13,080 --> 03:54:17,720
town staff or failing that us uh

6257
03:54:16,400 --> 03:54:19,600
that

6258
03:54:17,720 --> 03:54:21,160
this deck does meet our ordinance.

6259
03:54:19,600 --> 03:54:22,640
» Can we define what that is? Is that

6260
03:54:21,160 --> 03:54:24,480
going to be you know something

6261
03:54:22,640 --> 03:54:27,560
scientific like

6262
03:54:24,480 --> 03:54:28,560
Israel mentioned, you know, um

6263
03:54:27,560 --> 03:54:32,160
to

6264
03:54:28,560 --> 03:54:32,160
Do you have a suggestion on that piece?

6265
03:54:32,320 --> 03:54:36,320
» Jonathan, do you know what you would

6266
03:54:33,520 --> 03:54:37,720
request and have you

6267
03:54:36,320 --> 03:54:39,280
» I am

6268
03:54:37,720 --> 03:54:40,880
I don't know what question I want to

6269
03:54:39,280 --> 03:54:45,520
ask, but I just want to make sure I get

6270
03:54:40,880 --> 03:54:47,360
clarity from you, Mr. Taylor, as to what

6271
03:54:45,520 --> 03:54:48,800
we are about to move forward with. So,

6272
03:54:47,360 --> 03:54:50,480
what I'm hearing

6273
03:54:48,800 --> 03:54:52,560
is

6274
03:54:50,480 --> 03:54:55,440
just to reiterate that staff, our

6275
03:54:52,560 --> 03:54:57,600
historical practice, right?

6276
03:54:55,440 --> 03:55:00,800
Um maybe it's been wrong, but

6277
03:54:57,600 --> 03:55:02,280
historically we've just blanket blanket

6278
03:55:00,800 --> 03:55:04,800
applied

6279
03:55:02,280 --> 03:55:06,280
decks against impervious things.

6280
03:55:04,800 --> 03:55:07,120
» Well, that doesn't matter. I can talk to

6281
03:55:06,280 --> 03:55:08,200
you about that later.

6282
03:55:07,120 --> 03:55:10,680
» Well, well, what I'm saying is

6283
03:55:08,200 --> 03:55:12,680
» Case, what the petitioner has said is

6284
03:55:10,680 --> 03:55:14,480
that they would like to present with you

6285
03:55:12,680 --> 03:55:15,160
to you engineered

6286
03:55:14,480 --> 03:55:16,680
um

6287
03:55:15,160 --> 03:55:18,240
calculations

6288
03:55:16,680 --> 03:55:20,200
that support their position that the

6289
03:55:18,240 --> 03:55:22,000
deck is pervious.

6290
03:55:20,200 --> 03:55:22,280
That's That's where we are.

6291
03:55:22,000 --> 03:55:24,080
» Mhm.

6292
03:55:22,280 --> 03:55:25,840
» As to the other, I'll be happy to talk

6293
03:55:24,080 --> 03:55:26,560
to you outside of a public meeting about

6294
03:55:25,840 --> 03:55:28,440
that.

6295
03:55:26,560 --> 03:55:31,320
» I understand. Um

6296
03:55:28,440 --> 03:55:33,720
I'm not 100% sure

6297
03:55:31,320 --> 03:55:36,040
I would look at Mike Dell as the

6298
03:55:33,720 --> 03:55:36,800
director as to what would

6299
03:55:36,040 --> 03:55:39,360
» The determination.

6300
03:55:36,800 --> 03:55:41,720
» Yeah, what would satisfy our office as

6301
03:55:39,360 --> 03:55:44,920
to whether or not a deck meets

6302
03:55:41,720 --> 03:55:47,040
» Engineers Well, engineers are are tasked

6303
03:55:44,920 --> 03:55:50,120
from time to time with the determining

6304
03:55:47,040 --> 03:55:52,040
whether a surface or materials or system

6305
03:55:50,120 --> 03:55:53,920
are pervious. They're fully capable of

6306
03:55:52,040 --> 03:55:55,240
doing it. I've seen them do it.

6307
03:55:53,920 --> 03:55:57,120
You're you're I assume you're going to

6308
03:55:55,240 --> 03:55:59,760
get an engineering report and then you

6309
03:55:57,120 --> 03:56:02,440
can decide or you the town engineers can

6310
03:55:59,760 --> 03:56:04,480
review it and advise you as to their

6311
03:56:02,440 --> 03:56:06,440
opinion.

6312
03:56:04,480 --> 03:56:09,720
And so I I know that this is something

6313
03:56:06,440 --> 03:56:12,600
that is an accepted there

6314
03:56:09,720 --> 03:56:14,040
the courts accept expert testimony about

6315
03:56:12,600 --> 03:56:15,560
this all the time.

6316
03:56:14,040 --> 03:56:18,360
And so

6317
03:56:15,560 --> 03:56:20,400
it will be mathematical in nature, my

6318
03:56:18,360 --> 03:56:23,520
guess is mathematical calculations to

6319
03:56:20,400 --> 03:56:25,720
show that it either is or is not.

6320
03:56:23,520 --> 03:56:28,240
But experts can disagree and the and if

6321
03:56:25,720 --> 03:56:29,680
you if the town staff has a need to have

6322
03:56:28,240 --> 03:56:31,440
independent review, which I think you

6323
03:56:29,680 --> 03:56:33,960
should, then you'll have the opportunity

6324
03:56:31,440 --> 03:56:33,960
to do that.

6325
03:56:34,520 --> 03:56:39,400
» I'm good with that.

6326
03:56:37,040 --> 03:56:40,440
» I I I made the motion. I'm waiting for a

6327
03:56:39,400 --> 03:56:41,218
second.

6328
03:56:40,440 --> 03:56:42,120
» Second.

6329
03:56:41,218 --> 03:56:43,560
» [laughter]

6330
03:56:42,120 --> 03:56:44,440
» I want to make sure Dan got it all out

6331
03:56:43,560 --> 03:56:46,360
there.

6332
03:56:44,440 --> 03:56:48,400
» Did you want to say

6333
03:56:46,360 --> 03:56:50,640
» Yeah, may I say something, please? And

6334
03:56:48,400 --> 03:56:52,080
it's a it's a it's a question.

6335
03:56:50,640 --> 03:56:54,480
So

6336
03:56:52,080 --> 03:56:58,800
you know, um I had a

6337
03:56:54,480 --> 03:57:00,880
an expert deem, you know, the deck to be

6338
03:56:58,800 --> 03:57:01,680
pervious. I I mixed it up, too, by the

6339
03:57:00,880 --> 03:57:03,920
way.

6340
03:57:01,680 --> 03:57:05,920
Uh

6341
03:57:03,920 --> 03:57:08,520
are you looking for something someone

6342
03:57:05,920 --> 03:57:10,320
with a some higher standard?

6343
03:57:08,520 --> 03:57:13,160
Uh well, I guess can I should I work

6344
03:57:10,320 --> 03:57:15,040
with Mr. Dale and and Mr. Mr. Smith as

6345
03:57:13,160 --> 03:57:16,760
to the qualifications you'll be looking

6346
03:57:15,040 --> 03:57:18,480
for? I don't want to I don't want to

6347
03:57:16,760 --> 03:57:19,880
I don't want to kind of like the the

6348
03:57:18,480 --> 03:57:21,840
doctor before. I don't want to go out

6349
03:57:19,880 --> 03:57:23,960
and get work done and that isn't deemed

6350
03:57:21,840 --> 03:57:24,960
to be acceptable. So, we'll work with

6351
03:57:23,960 --> 03:57:26,520
you, sir.

6352
03:57:24,960 --> 03:57:27,000
» Yes, I'd be happy to talk with you about

6353
03:57:26,520 --> 03:57:30,360
this.

6354
03:57:27,000 --> 03:57:33,160
» Okay. Just what what level of of of of

6355
03:57:30,360 --> 03:57:34,800
engineering of of of expert you're you

6356
03:57:33,160 --> 03:57:37,600
would you would be looking for. Good.

6357
03:57:34,800 --> 03:57:37,600
Great. Thank you.

6358
03:57:40,824 --> 03:57:43,040
» [laughter]

6359
03:57:42,600 --> 03:57:44,920
» So

6360
03:57:43,040 --> 03:57:48,080
» I I will say I thought your own attorney

6361
03:57:44,920 --> 03:57:48,080
enunciated pretty well

6362
03:57:48,440 --> 03:57:51,800
I think your own attorney enunciated

6363
03:57:50,280 --> 03:57:53,520
pretty well what needed to be done to

6364
03:57:51,800 --> 03:57:56,680
get to the [snorts] staff but it

6365
03:57:53,520 --> 03:57:58,560
certainly talked with Mr. Mr. Dale.

6366
03:57:56,680 --> 03:57:59,800
» So, I uh

6367
03:57:58,560 --> 03:58:01,520
Do we need a motion?

6368
03:57:59,800 --> 03:58:05,280
» There is a motion There's a motion on

6369
03:58:01,520 --> 03:58:05,280
the table. We're waiting for a second.

6370
03:58:07,360 --> 03:58:09,680
No.

6371
03:58:10,000 --> 03:58:12,480
» It was.

6372
03:58:11,520 --> 03:58:13,720
Okay.

6373
03:58:12,480 --> 03:58:15,200
And who seconded that?

6374
03:58:13,720 --> 03:58:18,080
» Josh.

6375
03:58:15,200 --> 03:58:18,080
» I think it was Josh.

6376
03:58:18,840 --> 03:58:22,720
» We're a talk team.

6377
03:58:20,280 --> 03:58:23,360
» Take roll call. Jim Hurst.

6378
03:58:22,720 --> 03:58:24,240
» Aye.

6379
03:58:23,360 --> 03:58:24,640
» Josh Fedor.

6380
03:58:24,240 --> 03:58:25,520
» Aye.

6381
03:58:24,640 --> 03:58:26,040
» Amanda Miller.

6382
03:58:25,520 --> 03:58:27,160
» Aye.

6383
03:58:26,040 --> 03:58:28,280
» Don Kate.

6384
03:58:27,160 --> 03:58:29,760
Kate Glenn, excuse me.

6385
03:58:28,280 --> 03:58:31,800
» Aye.

6386
03:58:29,760 --> 03:58:33,040
» The motion's passed.

6387
03:58:31,800 --> 03:58:33,680
» Thank you, guys.

6388
03:58:33,040 --> 03:58:34,920
» Thank you.

6389
03:58:33,680 --> 03:58:38,120
» Thank you.

6390
03:58:34,920 --> 03:58:38,465
» Thanks for spending your evening with

6391
03:58:38,120 --> 03:58:38,920
» Can I

6392
03:58:38,465 --> 03:58:41,160
» [laughter]

6393
03:58:38,920 --> 03:58:42,760
» Off the record, can I make one request

6394
03:58:41,160 --> 03:58:45,670
one more request so as I have your

6395
03:58:42,760 --> 03:58:46,240
attention? Can I go first next time?

6396
03:58:45,670 --> 03:58:47,640
» [laughter]

6397
03:58:46,240 --> 03:58:49,000
» You and everybody else.

6398
03:58:47,640 --> 03:58:49,440
» We're hoping you will be the only one

6399
03:58:49,000 --> 03:58:51,564
next time.

6400
03:58:49,440 --> 03:58:53,584
» Can we go alphabetical?

6401
03:58:51,564 --> 03:58:53,584
» [laughter]

6402
03:58:55,040 --> 03:58:58,240
» Thank you. But sincerely, thank you.

6403
03:58:56,840 --> 03:59:00,160
Thank you for your time.

6404
03:58:58,240 --> 03:59:02,680
» No, we're on we're late. We've got to

6405
03:59:00,160 --> 03:59:04,010
finish up here. We're we're not off the

6406
03:59:02,680 --> 03:59:06,029
job yet.

6407
03:59:04,010 --> 03:59:06,029
» [laughter]

6408
03:59:08,760 --> 03:59:11,920
» Keep it.

6409
03:59:09,840 --> 03:59:13,120
» Okay, we have a couple other matters to

6410
03:59:11,920 --> 03:59:14,200
be considered.

6411
03:59:13,120 --> 03:59:15,120
» Thank you. That's all I wish. Have a

6412
03:59:14,200 --> 03:59:16,960
good evening.

6413
03:59:15,120 --> 03:59:19,760
» Thank you. Couple other matters to be

6414
03:59:16,960 --> 03:59:20,800
considered so I can get everybody home.

6415
03:59:19,760 --> 03:59:23,840
Um

6416
03:59:20,800 --> 03:59:26,960
an executive session um has been asked

6417
03:59:23,840 --> 03:59:30,000
to have um there's just

6418
03:59:26,960 --> 03:59:31,840
be held ahead of our September 2nd

6419
03:59:30,000 --> 03:59:34,120
meeting.

6420
03:59:31,840 --> 03:59:37,280
Are we What time?

6421
03:59:34,120 --> 03:59:40,400
» Um so, I was I'm to see if everyone was

6422
03:59:37,280 --> 03:59:45,200
available for an executive session

6423
03:59:40,400 --> 03:59:47,920
starting at 6:00 p.m. on September 2nd.

6424
03:59:45,200 --> 03:59:48,160
» If I'm in town, I can be here.

6425
03:59:47,920 --> 03:59:49,960
» Okay.

6426
03:59:48,160 --> 03:59:50,200
» That's a little bit of a jump ball.

6427
03:59:49,960 --> 03:59:51,800
» Okay.

6428
03:59:50,200 --> 03:59:52,800
» But you'll know in the next week.

6429
03:59:51,800 --> 03:59:55,101
» Okay.

6430
03:59:52,800 --> 03:59:57,120
» I'm out of town if he's out of town.

6431
03:59:55,101 --> 03:59:57,120
» [laughter]

6432
03:59:57,480 --> 04:00:02,120
» If a date works better for the four or

6433
03:59:59,640 --> 04:00:03,480
five of us or five of the BZA members,

6434
04:00:02,120 --> 04:00:04,880
I'm happy to have a different meeting on

6435
04:00:03,480 --> 04:00:05,080
a different date. I just thought that

6436
04:00:04,880 --> 04:00:05,880
was

6437
04:00:05,080 --> 04:00:07,360
» The easiest time to do

6438
04:00:05,880 --> 04:00:08,560
» You need all of us, right?

6439
04:00:07,360 --> 04:00:09,200
» We just need 30 minutes before the

6440
04:00:08,560 --> 04:00:11,000
meeting.

6441
04:00:09,200 --> 04:00:12,240
» I will uh

6442
04:00:11,000 --> 04:00:14,360
Dan, Mr. Taylor

6443
04:00:12,240 --> 04:00:16,360
» Yes, we I've I've asked for 30 minutes

6444
04:00:14,360 --> 04:00:18,360
to talk with you in executive session on

6445
04:00:16,360 --> 04:00:20,880
matters that can be discussed with your

6446
04:00:18,360 --> 04:00:22,840
attorney. It's a new category in the

6447
04:00:20,880 --> 04:00:25,120
access to public records act. I'm

6448
04:00:22,840 --> 04:00:27,240
confident that 30 minutes will be more

6449
04:00:25,120 --> 04:00:28,840
than enough.

6450
04:00:27,240 --> 04:00:31,160
» Should we confirm our other board member

6451
04:00:28,840 --> 04:00:31,760
will be in attendance?

6452
04:00:31,160 --> 04:00:32,520
» I can

6453
04:00:31,760 --> 04:00:33,040
» Need a quorum.

6454
04:00:32,520 --> 04:00:33,200
» Okay.

6455
04:00:33,040 --> 04:00:33,880
» A quorum.

6456
04:00:33,200 --> 04:00:34,920
» That's perfect.

6457
04:00:33,880 --> 04:00:36,600
» If somebody's not there, I can

6458
04:00:34,920 --> 04:00:37,600
communicate with them separately.

6459
04:00:36,600 --> 04:00:38,680
» It's on my calendar.

6460
04:00:37,600 --> 04:00:39,200
» So, 6:00 p.m.

6461
04:00:38,680 --> 04:00:41,040
» Mhm.

6462
04:00:39,200 --> 04:00:43,480
» Uh night September 2nd.

6463
04:00:41,040 --> 04:00:43,480
» Mhm.

6464
04:00:45,000 --> 04:00:48,680
» That is going to move the pre-meeting

6465
04:00:46,920 --> 04:00:51,720
for the September meeting

6466
04:00:48,680 --> 04:00:53,360
to 5:30. Uh let me see.

6467
04:00:51,720 --> 04:00:55,600
Let me look on my calendar to see who

6468
04:00:53,360 --> 04:00:58,160
the two pre-meeting attendees are for

6469
04:00:55,600 --> 04:00:58,160
that month.

6470
04:01:09,200 --> 04:01:11,880
pre-meeting

6471
04:01:14,000 --> 04:01:19,520
That is Josh Martin and Amanda Miller.

6472
04:01:16,760 --> 04:01:22,880
So, Amanda, you you are aware of the

6473
04:01:19,520 --> 04:01:26,160
change and I will update Josh.

6474
04:01:22,880 --> 04:01:27,760
» If Josh has I know he

6475
04:01:26,160 --> 04:01:29,160
is challenged to get in here a little

6476
04:01:27,760 --> 04:01:31,120
early. If he cannot make that

6477
04:01:29,160 --> 04:01:32,800
pre-meeting, I'll be more than happy to

6478
04:01:31,120 --> 04:01:34,040
swap with you.

6479
04:01:32,800 --> 04:01:35,560
Yeah, thank you. I will I will let you

6480
04:01:34,040 --> 04:01:37,200
know.

6481
04:01:35,560 --> 04:01:39,440
Volunteer for everything. All right,

6482
04:01:37,200 --> 04:01:40,360
well there are no further business.

6483
04:01:39,440 --> 04:01:41,212
» I move we adjourn.

6484
04:01:40,360 --> 04:01:42,560
» Second.

6485
04:01:41,212 --> 04:01:43,560
» [laughter]

6486
04:01:42,560 --> 04:01:43,800
» All in favor say aye.

6487
04:01:43,560 --> 04:01:45,040
» Aye.

6488
04:01:43,800 --> 04:01:47,800
» Aye.

6489
04:01:45,040 --> 04:01:47,800
» Run.