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Okay, welcome everyone.

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» Yeah, so got my hand. Oh yeah, banana
banana.

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» Okay,
so uh yeah, welcome to our September

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work session. Uh thanks for coming
tonight. That's a hot day. Sorry,

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so let's get started. Um let's see. All
business there is not an automated

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business agenda first.
>> Sure. We do have a conditional use

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hearing recommended uh for approval from
planning commission and our thousand

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square foot gross floor area uh attached
garage. So that is on the back of your

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agendas. Uh everything else is
relatively uh routine. We will discuss

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Northland Public Library a little bit
later on the agenda explain what that

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resolution is.
We've got

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everything else has been added, but we
will kick off the event with presation

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to Sergeant.
Is that all lined up? Everything's good

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to go.
>> We're good to go.

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» Months later, we're good to go.
>> You're in possession of the yellow

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brick.
>> I am.

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» All right.
not

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» but wanted to ask we have new council
junior council welcome

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» is there like swear in something happens
>> they do the pledge the mayor will um do

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the pledge with Elena at the regular
meeting

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» okay
>> but we always it's uh I forgot to put it

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on there you are correct it's not on
there um so that will be at the regular

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meeting
>> okay cool

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» have any questions on the agenda Just
yeah one this start me thinking about

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that the thousand square foot
conditional use thing. Is there a

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practical reason why after planning
commission looks at it that it comes to

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council for the additional use for the
thousand gross that's building. Is there

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» practical or reason for
>> so this started when when detach garages

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started to brew and grow and we had an
issue with the way gross area was

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defined. So it was two stories that
didn't have it. Uh so several years back

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um made amendments and more restrictions
on accessory structures uh one of them

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being this process uh primarily to alert
the neighbors as to what's going on. Um

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there are standards in the zoning
ordinance with respect to placement on

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the lot ability to subdivide in the
future everything like that but it's why

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we go through it. any conditional use
requires a recommendation from the

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planning commission uh and a public
hearing

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to do. We don't have any special
exceptions, nothing for the zoning

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hearing boards to do it by right is the
other avenue would just be a zoning

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permit session. No.
>> So the public hearing is really what

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what's key here. So everybody knows
what's going on. They're concerned about

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the size of the the garage. They can
come in.

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» Yes. And
It is difficult if they meet the

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requirements when the burden shifts and
they have to prove that there's

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something about the property that makes
it not appropriate for that size. That

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is difficult. But you do have the
ability through conditional use to place

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additional conditions and safeguards not
related to off-site transportation or

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traffic improvements. Otherwise,
uh if there are certain concerns that

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are brought to through public hearing
process little

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» what
>> a little funnel.

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» Yeah. The community kind of like brings
it to us and then we can consider at

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least some other
>> Yeah. I got and you lose that if you

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just go to the planning commission.
Planning commission doesn't do a public

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hearing. You wouldn't go to the planning
commission if it was

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» otherwise
would

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be building zoning permit cross the
table. So that would just be as

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» y0000

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square feet. It it depends on the size
of the lot uses regulated by lot size.

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So um if if it's I believe it's if it's
40,000 square 40,000 square feet or

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greater than the thousand over 1,000
square feet that's process um when you

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start going down in square
foot area then you're looking at it you

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know 800 square ft 6

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was an acre
>> 40,000

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about 300 something
>> okay I was curious like a shot.

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» Okay. All right. Uh yeah,
>> good good questions.

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Okay. Uh all right. So, uh yeah, moving
on. Uh course staffers

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have my uh written report and happy to
answer any questions. Um

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not privileged.

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Okay. Any questions?

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» Okay. I did not uh submit a report
because not much has changed from last

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months. We're working on the budget and
uh processing incoming and outgoing

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employees.
What's happening in the county?

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Thanks.
Yes. Along with my report, the only

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thing I uh have to mention is u
if uh emails from your residents about a

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large tree on road uh by the Bliss
housing plan. It's in between memory

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lane and Washington Lane. This tree is
extremely big. Uh there's wires

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involved. It's in the rightway. Um we're
probably going to have to take it out.

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Uh we've run into this before um with up
here along Taylor Rachel one time a

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couple years back. uh when we tried to
get the state to take this the tree out

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was coming down over there. uh they come
back and told us that we didn't take it

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out that they were going to take it out
charge for it. So we ended up one of we

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actually had to shut down take this tree
down because it was you know it was

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leaning pretty good and was going to
fall. Anyhow, this tree is extremely

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large probably I I would I I didn't
measure it out but I'm probably about 48

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inches in diameter at the base on this
tree. Large oak tree that probably 3/4

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of it maybe 90% of it maybe is dead. Uh
there's only a small portion of it

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that's uh has some leaves on it. Um but
it's uh it's it's definitely uh at some

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point going to start coming down.
Haven't had any limbs fall off it yet at

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this point, but uh it's pretty soon it's
going to need something taken care of.

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So I was talking to Zach about that.
We're possibly talking maybe fall here.

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We
maybe get it check the bridge maybe see

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might be able to do that outside
services or some possibility.

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possibility there. So if anybody's down
there way looking at I mean it's it's

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it's a big tree
and I'd probably say probably pricewise

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probably looking maybe I'm not sure what
they charge all the time but probably

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5,000

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» that's other than that that's all I have

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» um as developer respons

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Yeah.

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when they find

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I have a quick question. I saw in your
report and Zach you mentioned this

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briefly last time about the 15 mile per
hour signs on King John. Yes James

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» that those were actually never well not
never it's been a long time since

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they've been enforcable.
>> They never been.

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» They were never.
>> Yeah. So whenever those streets were

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adopted by ordinance everything was 25
mph. At that time there was a speed bump

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or early speed bumpy. They put 15 mile
signs on each side to slow cars down

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until they hit it. In the 90s, we were
removed that's antic. Uh, and the signs

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were never taken out. Uh, and so they've
been up and uninforceable for 20 plus

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years, plus years. So, um, as we were
kind of working through uh, the field

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club issue, uh, we we identified that
uh, and because it's on forceful, we

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remove them and 25.
>> That makes sense. I just want to make

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sure I'm clear. I know you mentioned it
on the reasoning, but that's probably

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hear about that. Make sure
>> I think it was a speed bump in the 15s

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on both sides for the other street and
then remove it the speed bumps. But I

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got
>> Yeah. Yeah.

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» Gary was saying that was what in the 90s
correct?

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» Uh when they were removed.
>> Yeah. uh early

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» 2000 at some point they were last time
was paying

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out. public and then we are putting up
other other 25 mph signs in different

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places throughout those plans and that
plan to do so. You know, if anybody gets

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any questions on why other signs are
going up, it's all due to the signage

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and it's being put over here on calls.
A lot of a lot of plans aren't marked

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and you know trying to probably keep up
with start to place.

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They don't have an update yet on any
possible solutions on field

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» about hopefully we'll find out here.
>> Yeah, we're working for I think by the

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time we back next week something maybe

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» so uh this month the county hearing
board has um two new applications for

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the vote for yard encroachments
additions and then there's going to

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there was a table uh application
for information that the planning

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commission doesn't have anything under
so

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» they didn't they they didn't
they asked

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and
ask questions.

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» S uh you have my report. The only thing
to add is we did get the blueberry patch

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playground started on Monday. So that
started on time. Weather other than

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being hot has been good to us. So
everything's moving smoothly. Couple

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structures have started going in
already. So, everything's removed.

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Couple structures in. Um they'll work
again tomorrow, be off for a few days,

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and we should have as long as weather is
right, we should have a lot of

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structures in by the end of next week.
Um so, it is going well.

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» Um I'll post some um pictures of
progress, things like that probably on

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Friday, kind of give a weekly update as
we go. Uh the only change to the closure

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is originally the sandbox was going to
stay open with the heat with the shading

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over there. We closed the sandbox,
closed the shade area so that they have

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somewhere to be and out of the sun a
little bit. Um so that was the only

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change we made. the upper portion, the
two structures up top are still open for

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public use, but it has drastically
reduced people coming in. Um, I've only

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seen one or two families there from the
few times I've been out on the site. So,

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that's the update on that.

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» Any other questions? Can can you touch
on uh some of the the fall programming

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uh that you were trying to do for the
youth? Um

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was the little builders and the
littleers. Can you give also a little

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bit of an update on what that is and
what you're trying to do?

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» Yeah, so we're trying to with partners
with uh coach Dave Gray, we're trying to

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bring some preschool uh kindergarten
kind of programming. So we're starting a

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program called Little Builders. Um that
will be on Tuesdays in the activity

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center. We're going to have a morning
session and afternoon session. Um and

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then we're also doing little hikers. Um
which is going to be on Fridays. That's

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only going to be one session in the
morning. Uh Little Builders is a

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just basically that preschool age,
kindergarten age to try to get some of

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these parents. Obviously with NA being
half day kindergarten, preschool is

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pretty much half day as well. It gives
them an opportunity to have their child

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join into a program um when they're not
in school. That's why we're offering two

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sessions of that. Uh the little hikers
is going to be kind of like our eco camp

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that we run in summer, but obviously a
lot shorter time. That's also to

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um that is going to be a child,
parent, guardian, however, whoever

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brings them. That's going to be an
integrated class with a grown-up and a

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child together. But getting out,
exploring uh eco, which we are hoping to

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build their interest at this age so that
they transfer into our camps when

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they're of age, which for Eco Adventure
is six years old. So, a lot of them if

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they can do the class now, we can build
them into uh campers for even next year.

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And then we're hoping to run it as like
a monthly offering. So, most months when

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school is in probably other than really
December, we're hoping to offer it as

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like four-week classes every month
moving forward uh through the school

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year. try to get a little more
engagement that younger group um that we

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don't get in our summer camp offerings
uh because all those started six years

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old. Um so just try to dip a little
younger into the age group of the

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neighborhoods.
>> So is this new or just like have have we

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had this before?
>> No.

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» No. So that's new, right?
>> Yeah. years

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probably 10 15 years ago they used to
run a program that was called kinder

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sport which was again more athletic
sport based for that for a younger group

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this is nothing athletic based it is eco
and it is building dexterity things like

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that um so it's it's a little it's also
a different grouping in that as well um

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might get a different kind of group in,
but also at three, four, five years old,

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they're not that despite what some
parents think, they're not star athletes

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yet. So, it it gives them a broader
horizon of avenues to explore.

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» So, this this information has been
posted on the on the website, right? the

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can and residents can easily get that
information.

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» All the descriptions are on our program
guide, the pricing, the times, all that

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is available and they can sign up now.
Um, and then like I said, we will start

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the first week of October.
>> Y

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» for that. So that way it gave us a
couple week to send emails, promote it.

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You know, anytime you run something
brand new, it takes a little buildup.

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Um, so we're hoping
Like you said, we get a few enrollments

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this time. Parents will talk, parents
will spread the word, and we'll continue

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to grow the program throughout the year.
>> I know a lot of young parents will be

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happy, you know, to have this because,
you know, usually, you know, and

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preschool is just half day, you know,
they always work, but like they can send

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their kids.

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As long as there's no reason not to, I
might pull some information off the

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site, then shoot it out to to my
incl.

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It's all available there. Um there's
some description on the Facebook post,

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but especially like Little Hikers,
there's a lot more you'll see on the

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website when you click into the program.
Um because that one our hope

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is that we can eventually start working
into like family eco so that we can

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bring out the whole family at one time
for hikes, things like that.

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» Um and grow it into that eventually as
well.

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» Be awesome.
>> A little different. Yeah, probably more

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evening class when the older kids are
out of school. Sure. But this is step

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one. We'll see how this
>> be a taste. see how this works and kind

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of grow from there.
>> Awesome.

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00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:17,440
» I have a question. Could you like
advertise like through the school

213
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,600
district as well? Because I feel like
for example like back when I was younger

214
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,360
like my parents would often look at like
school newsletters to see if there's

215
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:31,120
anything to
>> I know school district does like their

216
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:38,160
weekly newsletters. They are usually
pretty strict if it's not a school

217
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:44,880
related function or a district related
function. So they will generally put out

218
00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:52,240
like the sports or the clubs that are
specifically aligned with NA. We partner

219
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:56,960
with NA, but we're not really
an NA

220
00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:01,840
use, you know, we we don't have like NA
doesn't have any fields or any buildings

221
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:06,720
within the furrow um that we do
crossover programming.

222
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:12,400
We can certainly ask especially for like
you're saying that kindergarten group. I

223
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:16,720
just know and every it usually goes
through the PFA, PTO, whatever each

224
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:22,000
building individually calls themselves,
and they all have different rules um for

225
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:26,640
what can and cannot go into their
newsletters. So, it's a little a little

226
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:32,160
tricky, but we can certainly at least
give the ads. Doesn't hurt to ask ever.

227
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:36,640
» At the bottom of the district, we can
community flyer section, which has like

228
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:42,320
Boy Scouts, other stuff that's not
necessarily NA related. I know there's a

229
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:45,559
fee for that. That might
>> be fun.

230
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:05,840
Okay, my report um just off of what Zach
was saying with the blueberry patch

231
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:10,320
talking with the contractor today. He
was telling I should be able to have our

232
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:13,679
guys in middle to late next week to get
our drainage in. We should have most of

233
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:18,240
the structures so we'll get our drainage
in. That way he can finish up his work

234
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:23,919
the following week or so after and
hopefully be button up in a couple weeks

235
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:28,480
here. Um, and other than that, the golf
course uh revenue was down for August

236
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:33,360
just because the amount of rain. We lost
a lot of days with no carts and air on

237
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:38,640
the side. I mean, just the the we all
know the multiple backtoback rains that

238
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:45,360
we had. Uh, really saturated the course.
Um, we just lost 20 days of revenue. We

239
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:49,120
were down about 1,400 rounds per
compared to last year, which is a lot.

240
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,360
But you just you just you lose and don't
get back. But overall, the course is in

241
00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:57,919
decent shape. There's some there's some
minor issues, just old farm drains and

242
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:02,159
where water's just coming out of places
that never have before, but but for the

243
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:06,960
most part, the course is in good shape
and uh

244
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:11,360
is still going strong. So,
any other questions?

245
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:15,520
» Can you give an update on Acorn, please?
Yeah. So, Acorn, uh, especially this

246
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:21,360
week with the help of some of some of
Gary's help and his guys, uh, the around

247
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:25,280
the bathroom, the, um, the concrete's
in, uh,

248
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,960
the public works help with some of the
back filling. Um, so that should be we

249
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:33,600
still finish up the landscaping here
shortly. Uh, the bridges are all

250
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:37,440
connected, so we'll be able in the next
couple weeks finish the plantings and

251
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:44,240
the ribarian buffer that we need to
install. And uh so we're inching ever

252
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:48,960
closer to being complete. Um there's
some some uh some decks, overlook decks

253
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:55,039
on the trails to build. That's probably
the last big structure that we put in.

254
00:21:51,679 --> 00:21:58,000
And other than that, we're close. I'm
just talking to Sean. At some point here

255
00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:03,360
soon, we want to walk through make sure
we have all our fees crossed and we'll

256
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:08,320
be set hopefully by end of the year if
the grant runs out. So hopefully we

257
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:11,720
don't have to push again.
the deadline.

258
00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:24,799
» Thank you. Um actually not much to add
to our report this evening. Obviously

259
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:28,559
big one um out there is the
public work garage opening for the end

260
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:32,159
of the month. So we'll have that for
discussion at this meeting next month.

261
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:36,440
Hopefully the favorable number for
award. Um

262
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:44,799
from that uh a few miscellaneous
development items we did close out the

263
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:48,600
um seal code project across the standard
u. So that was complete

264
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:54,679
and I think other than that
answer

265
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:06,840
» happy to answer any questions about my
report or anything else.

266
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,360
» Okay. Um,

267
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:20,240
» yeah. Should be it for everybody.
>> And I have a quick question for you. On

268
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:26,320
your report, you talked about the fire
inspection reports and the $25 fee for

269
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,760
pass fail. Is that whether you pass or
fail or only if you fail?

270
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,919
» Pass or fail.
>> It's a $25 fee for the matter.

271
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,440
» Because one of the things that tends to
happens whenever you don't do that is

272
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:41,720
you become their maintenance manager,
right? And that's opportunity.

273
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,840
» Maybe we did a reinspection and pass
your payment twice,

274
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,559
» right?
>> Or how many times

275
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,440
it's the same?

276
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:04,679
We good?
Yeah, everyone can go

277
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:23,840
» over there.
>> Yeah, let's go.

278
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,679
» Yeah, sure. Um, you guys have my
reports. Uh, MS4, everybody's still on

279
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:34,159
permanent angle. working through
comments now hopefully to have those

280
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:38,880
resolved by the end of the year. Um for
the

281
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:45,120
uh Dur Road grant that was submitted on
time. The uh GEDF uh I made an

282
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:50,720
oversight. Um I thought I could apply
for anything under 100,000. It was

283
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:56,080
$150,000 minimum. uh was able to apply
using the same uh grant package that we

284
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,600
did for the multimmoal grant which was
276,000.

285
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:05,600
Uh talked to the county, they're fine
with us uh submitting a resolution late.

286
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:09,360
So we'll have an updated one on this uh
regular meeting um which I believe is

287
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:14,720
already on there. Uh this there's no
match component to this. So this is just

288
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:21,200
us trying to find funding. Um but we
have that executive session. Uh Kathy

289
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:26,000
and Aaron uh met with the uh the
regional discussion for deer management.

290
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:31,279
I wasn't here. I was on vacation. Um the
uh the group of managers, so this is

291
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:35,760
McLaren, Liz, uh Hampton, Ross, and
ourselves all have deer issues. Um which

292
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:40,559
seems to be the North Hill region's
problem. Um and the discussion was to

293
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:45,279
try to bring this into the North Hills
COG uh to get that regional organization

294
00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:50,240
to get everybody on the same playing
field. Everyone's doing something to try

295
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:53,360
and mitigate uh deer management because
we're going from one community to the

296
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:57,039
next and bouncing from round to round.
Uh and so trying to get everybody

297
00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:01,600
playing by the same set of rules and
then from there working to to get

298
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:11,559
permits through the state to to advance
some sort of sharpshooting program. Um

299
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:11,559
Another one for executive session. Uh

300
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:23,120
um the hedges. Uh I'll let Andy kind of
run on that um here in a second. Um but

301
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:27,200
that that's my report. You guys have
everything. I'll start getting the the

302
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:32,000
drop down items. The uh Northland
library, we talked a little bit before

303
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:36,640
that the uh the articles incorporation
were going to expire. Um they sent over

304
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:41,039
all the information. Max talked to their
lawyer. So I don't know if you have any

305
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:45,120
anything to add.
>> Just municipalities authorities act.

306
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:49,440
Municipal authorities have 50 years life
to renew them. Their board needs to

307
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:55,120
authorize it first and then the
incorporating municipalities pass

308
00:26:51,679 --> 00:26:59,760
resolution resolution just uh they'll
take care of it from there. they have to

309
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:06,520
apply articles of amendment to purple
states that will get approved for

310
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,520
another 50 years to

311
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:14,159
» um next would be the uh the hedges on
the corner of West Englemore and Brans

312
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,240
Road kind of went you okay this is your
your base

313
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:20,159
» this this was actually one of the NOVs
that we had back when at the exact same

314
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:24,880
time the Oakley plane situation went in
so we decided we tap the plane situation

315
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:28,640
then come back and revisit this so this
double gear more growth on these trees.

316
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:33,200
But the bottom line is when you're
coming down West Singar Road to Branch

317
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:40,000
School at that intersection. Um there's
a radius on the right hand side. The

318
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:43,440
stop signs back in those trees. Um and
they're doing some trimming on it right

319
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:49,600
now. There was a concern that the stop
sign's in the wrong place and uh so on

320
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:53,200
so forth. So the bottom line is we've
got a dangerous situation there that you

321
00:27:51,679 --> 00:27:56,720
can't really be a pedestrian at
intersection and all walk around those

322
00:27:55,360 --> 00:28:00,880
trees because there's nothing on the
shoulder that you can walk by on certain

323
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:05,120
areas of it. Um,
>> okay.

324
00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:13,760
» If I can make a comment, I mean, I live
right three doors down from there and

325
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:21,679
nobody can walk on any aspect of Western
and those people who live at the corner

326
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:26,880
uh planted those trees for a buffer for
sound. And no, nobody's walking there

327
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:30,399
because there's no sidewalks on West
Sigma Road. So, I'm a little bit

328
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,000
confused.
>> Again, the trees are in the public

329
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:36,320
easement where they should not be. It's
the bottom line.

330
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,480
» The line of sight is the biggest
>> the line of sight is our biggest issue.

331
00:28:37,919 --> 00:28:45,039
» I go that the stop sign is in the wrong
place. Actually makes the situation even

332
00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:51,120
worse on our end because when I looked
it up, it is in the wrong place. stop

333
00:28:47,679 --> 00:28:56,559
sign should be moved closer to Grant to
West Road and and Branch Hole which

334
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:01,279
means it's even further around that turn
which now sight line situation be tree

335
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:05,760
trunks that have to be removed not just
tree branches

336
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:10,919
and that meets the state DT
that information is in the packet.

337
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,919
» How many trees?

338
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:17,919
» Uh it's about nine trees if you remove
the stop sign.

339
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:22,799
If you lose a stop sign the way it is
now, you could probably keep the trees,

340
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,480
but the brush underneath needs pretty
much cut back.

341
00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:28,320
» Yeah.
>> The minimum height for a stop sign is 9

342
00:29:26,399 --> 00:29:31,840
ft. So, you need to make sure when
they're coming down the grade, you can

343
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:40,000
see this little stop sign.
So the stop signs for location

344
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:43,120
you could trim the trees
down to

345
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,320
» they could be potentially be trimmed all
the way back to the trunk in probably

346
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,520
most cases. Okay.
>> If we do not move the sign,

347
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,679
» if you do not move the sign,
>> if we move the sign, it's going to take

348
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,600
it around the turn enough that probably
the one hardwood tree in the front yard

349
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:02,559
there that I marked on that diagram as
well as some of those pine trees will

350
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:08,320
wind up just basically on that wall see
from the 300T site distance.

351
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:14,399
» So there's potential in that space
there's potential for some trees.

352
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:19,840
There's the potential for some. Again,
I'm operating off of our GIS apps and

353
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:24,640
everything that's on here. I went in the
property when I got the ordinance when

354
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:28,399
we adopted the road from CAP that
happened in 2010. I can't find anything

355
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,080
from 2010 that there was a survey done
as to exactly where the easement was at

356
00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:36,159
that time. You go all the way back to
the late 70s, early 80s, there's a

357
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:41,279
survey there that's representing a
different easement. But I don't know

358
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:45,919
what has changed. We've got a current
survey there to say why the county is

359
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:51,520
showing that as a 50
on their GIS's.

360
00:30:48,159 --> 00:30:54,880
But either way, even if it was a
slightly lesser easement, all that would

361
00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:01,120
grow is you still have the branches
still slipping in the intersection.

362
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:03,760
» Trees planted in the late 80s.
>> Sorry,

363
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:09,360
» the trees were planted in the late 80s.
Uh, that's the

364
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,520
» 2007, but they're in the pictures.
>> Google Maps, right?

365
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,880
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. 2007.

366
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:22,159
» And they were a little hard to do this.
>> I have it in here off of the uh review.

367
00:31:18,159 --> 00:31:30,640
» Yeah. 2007. It's page seven on the side.
And just so this was a county road until

368
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:34,720
2010 just because we are on it
maintaining it. Otherwise, we just it's

369
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,559
somewhat unusual, but something they
have to do. They essentially dedicated

370
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:43,200
it to us. So, we were not involved in
the original laying out or inspections

371
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:48,640
or anything that we do for Burough
Street. And say, I mean, I'm just

372
00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:55,679
refreshing back to 2010 when we did
that. There was no oral survey, whatever

373
00:31:52,159 --> 00:32:01,120
was attached to the ordinance. Um, been
about it. It was existing road. It's

374
00:31:58,399 --> 00:32:05,640
just became our responsibility.
You're talking about or brand school.

375
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:16,480
» Brand school is not ours at all.
>> And this all started

376
00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:20,399
in 2025. They had a NOV for
>> the NOV both for trees in the public

377
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:24,399
easement as well as branches of trees
reaching into the east.

378
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,799
» You could see stuff.
>> And they cut the trees back at that

379
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,720
point. I would say
>> they did do the significant cutting at

380
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:33,440
at that time where they notched back in
that you can see

381
00:32:31,679 --> 00:32:39,279
» and I remember it was completely
different because I know the people who

382
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:46,880
have that lot and they planted very
small trees in the late 80s and they

383
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:52,480
then grew obviously um so I'm
remembering a very different scenario.

384
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:56,240
» Well I have photographs here from
Google.

385
00:32:53,039 --> 00:33:02,559
» Do you have the the small
was

386
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:09,640
packed on Google.
>> Do we have a replacement like we had oak

387
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,640
leaf some big thing?

388
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,840
» No idea.
>> Um,

389
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,960
» yeah. Yeah, they're just they've gotten
too big. We need to figure out what

390
00:33:17,679 --> 00:33:23,840
we're going to do, right? Whether that
be we're talking in circles. Um whether

391
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:29,200
that be we asked them to plant behind
their bushes now, let those grow up and

392
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:34,159
then remove what's what's in the area or
based on our ordinances enforce what

393
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:38,000
should be enforced. Um or you know
ignore it and continue ask them to try

394
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:43,240
and trim back until it gets to the point
where these trades are too big. But that

395
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,240
can't happen.

396
00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:53,679
I think one of the possibilities is to
lollipop and so like this

397
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,880
» and so that preserves the trees right
where they are. Y

398
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,720
» and just take the lower branches down
>> specifically on West

399
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,120
site.
>> Yeah.

400
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:09,720
» I think if that's a viable option that
would be good because I know the trailer

401
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,720
currently I drive that twice a day.

402
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:15,520
It's gotten better, but it's it's still
less than ideal. And you know,

403
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:19,919
especially if you look at some of the
stuff up closer to the church now that

404
00:34:18,399 --> 00:34:24,560
way, was it James?
>> James, you know, that's the the concern

405
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:29,679
that we got from a resident from James
Drive. We can't see up uh because that

406
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:34,560
hatch is so high now that if someone
comes out of Westing fast, you're trying

407
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:37,200
to come out. Uh there's a noticeable
blind spot because they're stuffed in

408
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:42,879
the right way.
I think if it's if it's agreeable to but

409
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:46,960
it's worth trying to lollipop lollipop
at least if that works before you start

410
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:51,119
» but if the purpose of them is a buffer
from the road lollipops open

411
00:34:49,839 --> 00:34:56,159
» well it's no longer
>> but if you remember from our our prep

412
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,640
ball sound study expert trees don't you
know blocks ends

413
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:02,560
lane
>> blocks line yes

414
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:06,640
» I mean there's also the conditions and
lots requirements and zoning which was

415
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,720
exciting to just want to talk better
than I

416
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,160
would affect.

417
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,839
» Is it similar to the Oakley compromise,
right?

418
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:27,000
» It's very close.
>> It's a burrow strategy or position

419
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,000
go around treat.

420
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,560
» So, all we're doing is public safety.
We're saying lollipop the trees. We're

421
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:36,560
saving the trees. We're not taking them
out. Theresa actually, you can see in

422
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,800
the picture, they're on their I think
they were put on their property

423
00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:44,880
originally moved on to the
>> most of them were on their property.

424
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:48,400
Yeah, exactly. They look like they were
>> probably in the easement based on the

425
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:51,440
information from GIS.
>> Yeah.

426
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:55,920
» But the bottom line is they've grown out
for all those years.

427
00:35:53,200 --> 00:36:01,920
» Yeah. I mean, I like the approach of
let's save the trees and save little

428
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:07,040
lollipop.
Okay. So just so everyone knows the

429
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,000
lollipop is cured back.
>> Yeah.

430
00:36:07,359 --> 00:36:11,839
» Right.
>> But it saves the it saves the tree. All

431
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:14,079
you're doing is taking branch stuff to
make the line of sight so it's not in

432
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:17,280
the way.
>> The alternative is full removal.

433
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:20,320
» Are you are we saying Well, I don't know
if that's the alternative. But are we

434
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:24,079
saying that they have to clear the
entire bottom of the tree or they can

435
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:30,160
just carve out
one side?

436
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:32,480
» Whatever's for the one you start up see.
>> Yeah. Which is different. clearing all

437
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,320
the way.
>> Yeah. It wouldn't be the whole

438
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,040
» My thought would be the the external
side, right?

439
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,960
» Yeah. So they can still leave everything
down to the ground on the

440
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:50,240
» intern
far side West Ingamar and Brold

441
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:53,520
trim back to the
all the way back to the base. So then

442
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:58,960
you've got your blind side. Yeah. I
think we we say the trees in we've got a

443
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:02,160
blind side. So we would ideally
>> Are we okay with that approach?

444
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,119
» Yes. That sounds like the alternative
for moving.

445
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,079
» Don't like that at all. Still
>> I don't think it's accurate to say that

446
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:13,760
is the alternative. There are multiple
alternatives. But

447
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:18,720
» so hold on. The goal here is sight lines
both as you're coming down West toward

448
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,720
Brand School and if you're coming
northish

449
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:26,320
» road
like if you're turning off of Brand

450
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:30,240
School, I'm sorry, off of James Drive
onto Brand School. Headache north.

451
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:32,800
» Yeah, that's right. I the the three-way
intersection isn't really a problem,

452
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,560
right? It's a three-way stop. Everyone's
stopping, right? You're going to see

453
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:40,160
them when you're stopping.
My main issue is is James Drive. You

454
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:44,320
can't see. Uh
>> so everything just comes out like from

455
00:37:41,839 --> 00:37:45,520
nowhere into the line of sight is
>> Yeah.

456
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,560
» Okay.
>> So they're ducking out slowly to try and

457
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:52,400
see them, but then
>> it's all the way out to the the road

458
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:56,480
already, so you can't see anything. All
the cars on West are backed up hidden

459
00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:00,160
behind there. So those people are
blindly pulling out. uh with the hope

460
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,920
that whoever's on West Indian bar is
coming out slow. though

461
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:07,760
» may not be the case when you've got the
when you've got the four-way stops,

462
00:38:05,839 --> 00:38:11,920
right? People are taking their turns.
Yeah. Somebody's bound to turn to get

463
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,960
their turn. Pay attention to James turn.
>> Okay. So, James Drive is our primary

464
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:19,520
concern here.
>> Correct.

465
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:23,440
» And we are needing to balance
>> we still need to be able to see from

466
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,720
Westmore the stop sign, right? Which so
that's got to be turned back to keep

467
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,400
that line of sight. Then on the opposite
side of for James, you can't see

468
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,079
anything because of
>> right. I just am very hesitant to get

469
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:38,160
into the business and we talked about
this admium

470
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,160
going through the oak thing. I'm very
hesitant to go around the burrow and

471
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,000
start saying all these trees have to go.
>> Yeah.

472
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,440
» Because they're in the rightway or have
been for how many years? Do they need to

473
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:51,760
eventually be on the rideway? Yes. And
if it's a public safety issue, we need

474
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:56,240
to come up with some ideas about it. You
also keep in mind these folks that's

475
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,119
huge for their property value.
for my quality of life.

476
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:03,359
» Uh so
>> my thought is to ask

477
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:07,119
» we need the plant back, right?
>> Yeah. To already start when we

478
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,839
» to prepare for the inevitable that these
are going to have to go.

479
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:12,079
» We talked about this too, like okay,
plant a second row now.

480
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,680
» Yeah.
>> And then while we're waiting on whatever

481
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,440
happens to the other tree to at least
have get that growing time. Yeah.

482
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:24,000
» That might be something we need to at
least talk to them about. But u in the

483
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:29,040
meantime, I think trimming, especially
the ones along Brand School Road, is a

484
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,280
reasonable start.
>> Yeah.

485
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:36,640
» Yes. I'm with you. I don't want to
experiment on cut down, but I want to

486
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:41,839
get on because you know,
>> I mean, have we had I understand pulling

487
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,119
out of James Drive is tricky and we want
to prevent accidents before they happen,

488
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:50,400
right? We don't want to be reactive to
accidents, but short of trimming the

489
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:54,640
trees, do we seriously have a very
serious safety issue.

490
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,320
» Again, that's not the standard for
enforcing our ordinances. I realize

491
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,839
» I think the potential is very much
there.

492
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:04,640
» We're just balancing.
>> Yeah. Coming out of nowhere, the only

493
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:08,400
time to react. Line of sight is bad.
That's just ask bad. Yeah. It's a bad

494
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,119
design.
>> And Oakleaf was was never a line of

495
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:16,240
sight
>> issue. Yeah, as an approach with the

496
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:21,200
wall that was low the trees in the right
of way into the street top of the

497
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:24,440
utility line. Are there utility lines on
that side?

498
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,520
» No, now I'm talking about

499
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:39,839
» But yeah, that
other ones that we've had in terms of

500
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:48,040
issues have been sighteline issues on
Bane. One guy bushes were coming into

501
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:48,040
there. um that they're

502
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:56,200
didn't have that issue,
>> right?

503
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:56,200
» Okay. So, please

504
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:04,560
» try that in that in that deck. The very
last picture

505
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:08,079
solution
and Gary isn't here, but I already

506
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:13,200
talked to Gary about it. The very last
picture is actually club and sandburst.

507
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,319
There's a 70 foot east there. those
trees sticking up. It's in bad shape. I

508
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:21,280
had conversation on the property over
there and if uh we pick them up when we

509
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,640
do the brush chipping this fall, we can
have them for the most part. So, we'll

510
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,200
get that one clean up for one or two of
you mentioned that one too. So, I'm

511
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,720
working more on getting that
accelerating solution rather than

512
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,880
decision. I think you got that one
wrapped up.

513
00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:36,480
» Wait, what was what's happening with
that one? You're taking the bush out or

514
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,760
» take the two pine trees out, leave the
rest of the flower. It's the very last

515
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,680
one.
>> Yeah,

516
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,400
» okay. But I talked to a property owner.
He said if you guys want to take the

517
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,280
trees and do your chip.
>> Okay.

518
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,680
» As long as he's still venable for that
that one. So

519
00:41:50,319 --> 00:41:55,520
» that's good. Well, that property is a
little bit different. They're they're

520
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,920
kind of protected by like the slope of
the land anyway. It's not really

521
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,200
protecting a lot.
>> Nobody's turning head putting headlights

522
00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:03,599
really. Well, one direction I guess
>> may be coming.

523
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:08,319
» But you still have your shrubberies. You
just won't have big big pods.

524
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:12,160
» And again, it was the property owner
that has the father. I talked to Gary

525
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:18,440
and Gary
10 minutes from my guys change

526
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,440
our question.

527
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:26,160
» Okay.
>> Yeah. Um last thing, uh the D growing

528
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:33,599
greener grant. Um Reach had applied and
been awarded a grant by D back in 2023

529
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:39,839
for Fish Run. Um that was set to expire
here uh in October of 2026. All

530
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:45,280
constructions be done. uh we haven't
started construction or even been um

531
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:51,359
because of all the property issues that
we've had uh that have now been resolved

532
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:57,359
um our amended uh
uh permit application with BP hopefully

533
00:42:54,240 --> 00:43:03,359
that'll be passed through soon um so I
requested an extension uh for a year in

534
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:06,880
order to try to get this work done I I
asked for more than a year uh the DT

535
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:12,720
told me that only thing they'd be
willing to give is one here our our

536
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:16,800
completion date for fish run would be 10
927

537
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:21,440
uh which
uh makes our timelines complicated with

538
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:30,079
my intention to use penvest funding uh
for this project um this project is

539
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:36,319
estimated at uh $779,000
$200,000 uh is being given to us for the

540
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:40,880
D for a grant uh and so as we get into
budget season um region and I are going

541
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:45,760
to have to really uh dig into this and
and determine um what our best course of

542
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:49,760
action is. Uh for us to be able to get
this project done based on that timeline

543
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:56,240
to keep this grant, uh we're going to
have to move to bid probably February of

544
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:59,760
2026 or 2027, which would not give us
the amount of time we need to pend

545
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:03,520
funding. Uh so that would mean either
one, uh we don't do a whole lot of

546
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:08,880
capital improvements next year than
storm water uh and really trim back our

547
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:15,280
budgets. uh we find extern external
sourcing uh via uh a loan from someone

548
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:21,440
other than Penvest uh or some
combination of both uh or we abandon the

549
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:26,400
$200,000 grant uh and go through the
Penvest process because we know that the

550
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:30,640
interest rates are are really good. Um
and so that decision will be something

551
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:36,200
that we'll talk about uh as we move to
the budget process

552
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,200
» as a project.

553
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:43,280
» Yeah. Yeah. We can't say that
>> as a

554
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:47,359
» just when you thought you got the budget
moving in the right direction.

555
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:53,280
» Yeah. The wheels.
>> Yeah. So um you know what's the rate of

556
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:57,599
department versus
>> uh

557
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:04,960
I think this is what%
first five years another four the next

558
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:10,560
one. Um
so but once we have the budget set and I

559
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:17,200
can kind of see how much money we have
disposable uh if we trim the fat is an

560
00:45:14,319 --> 00:45:20,240
aren't essential um where we come land.
So

561
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,520
» okay we'll see what our options are.
Yeah, but those will be uh you know you

562
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,119
guys will be proposed options to go
through the process. Just keeping you

563
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:30,599
guys in the loop of uh where we kind of
stand right now

564
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,040
for

565
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:45,599
» uh no the rest is okay. Uh the next item
is a high school visit. So who would

566
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:52,000
like to go visit the high school?
This was a part of our

567
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:57,839
» council. Shaunie um had emailed some
dates. She's um and Elena, did she speak

568
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,720
with you? Are you involved with this as
well?

569
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,480
» Okay. Because that's what we wanted to
make sure that you were involved as the

570
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:09,440
new junior council person.
>> Um she was looking at Monday, November

571
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:14,000
2nd,
Thursday, November 5th. You know, these

572
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:21,280
are all options. uh Friday, November
6th, Monday the 9th, Wednesday the 11th,

573
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:25,079
or Monday the 23rd.
She also gave me Thanksg.

574
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:36,160
» Um she indicated the lunch periods are
10:33 to 12:45.

575
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:39,760
So her thought was 10:00 a.m. to 1:15.
I'm guessing

576
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:46,960
she thought you'd get there before the
kids and stay until they clear out.

577
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:53,720
» Was the intention to have, you know, x
number of us there the whole time or

578
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,720
kind of stagger it or I know

579
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,319
» don't want

580
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:06,880
sunshine by saying if two people want to
go, I can go as a third.

581
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,839
Yeah, I'll go.
>> Everyone's here.

582
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,200
» I'll go now before my children get
there. [laughter]

583
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,520
» Make fun of you.
>> What were the days?

584
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,440
» But yeah. Uh, can you repeat the dates,
please?

585
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:21,520
» Yep. Monday, November 2nd.
>> No.

586
00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:24,880
» Thursday the 5th.
>> That's election. I mean,

587
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,680
» the day before
>> November 3rd.

588
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:34,560
» Thursday the 5th.
>> Thursday the 5th. Friday the 6th.

589
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:41,800
Monday the 9th. Wednesday the 11th,
Monday the 23rd, which is Thanksgiving

590
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,800
week. Fifth or sixth is good for me.

591
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:47,240
» Can anybody

592
00:47:51,359 --> 00:47:55,160
» Yeah, school's out.

593
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,280
» That wouldn't make sense.

594
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,839
Sure.

595
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:13,079
She didn't look at the school calendar.
>> Personally, she's had Saturdays.

596
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,079
She looked at the wrong.

597
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:25,599
» All right. So, she's looking for
counsel, you know, to choose the date so

598
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:31,760
she can she and Elena can get back to
the principal to I guess get it

599
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:38,000
scheduled so everybody knows. So, do you
want to choose a date tonight? Do you

600
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:41,440
want to talk about it again next meeting
in two weeks?

601
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:48,880
» If I had my brothers, I'd choose
Thursday. I'm off on Thursday.

602
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:51,880
» There's only one Thursday. What? What?
>> Yeah.

603
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:01,160
» And I'm sorry, what time did she say?
>> 10.

604
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,160
» She said 10:00 a.m. to 1:15.

605
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,839
» The lunch periods are 10:33 to 12:45.

606
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:15,680
» Good question.
>> Donnie and I

607
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:18,000
just report it on something.
$250.

608
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:23,520
» So if you have three people, I assume
you don't need me.

609
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:26,640
» Not unless you just really want to.
>> I didn't come a high school teacher for

610
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:33,480
read.
>> Okay. So

611
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:33,480
first Laura Curtis, Thursday the 5th.

612
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:39,599
» Two council people and a mayor is uh
>> not

613
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:45,680
four council me.
>> Okay. Elena, what I'll do and you can as

614
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:49,920
well. I will since um Ashani had emailed
I will respond to her email with this

615
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:53,040
information. I will copy your junior
council person email as well.

616
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:57,040
» Sounds good.
>> You think you don't want to go? It's

617
00:49:54,800 --> 00:50:03,319
right up your alley. All
>> teach about

618
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:03,319
science class last time.

619
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:13,760
They must have been thrilled.
>> He did his diligence.

620
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:19,040
my days. I was always grateful for
whenever there was either Bill and I

621
00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:25,839
video or guest speaker.
>> Yeah. You guys enjoy it.

622
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:31,119
» Okay. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Uh
council mayor first.

623
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:37,440
» Yeah. I'll just kind of touch on the
chief target. We were talking last time

624
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:41,680
about the uh snow on bread with the uh
the gas line replacement. That's uh

625
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:45,359
while it's still a bit of a mess, it
actually has kind of exceeded my

626
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,720
expectations and there's not been an
overwhelming amount of grief that I've

627
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:52,000
gotten directly from the neighbors or
anything. They're doing their best. You

628
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:58,160
know, I assume they're going to patch it
up and, you know, blow a tire on what

629
00:50:54,559 --> 00:51:04,880
they have left, but uh craft control is
decent for for what they're having to

630
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:10,720
do. So, all in my home stretch, my boys,
pretty much what I have.

631
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:16,559
you know,
do you support or anything, but do you

632
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:21,520
» any questions? Me and Shai were talking
the other day, and I know she mentioned

633
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:26,160
to you guys the creation of like some
sort of junior council thing, like not

634
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:29,440
just the council person, but having like
a group of youth. And I thought that was

635
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:33,040
really interesting because I was like
down in North Carolina this summer with

636
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:38,240
like the department of state and we got
to go into Kerry, North Carolina and

637
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:41,119
they had like a town view council and we
got to do some activities with them and

638
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:45,839
I just thought the concept was really
cool because they gave a lot of service

639
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:50,480
opportunities and like civic, you know,
engagement opportunities to youth. Like

640
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:54,800
they got to volunteer, do a lot of like
park cleanup and like really interact

641
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:59,200
with their elected officials there. And
like it was like pretty cool because

642
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:03,359
there was like 900 plus like members.
They're like one of the largest like

643
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:08,720
teen youth councils in like the United
States. So I was like wondering if

644
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:12,400
something like this comes to Christian
like in our group.

645
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:16,480
» I think we we touched on that a couple
meetings ago with Shnie. There's there's

646
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:21,040
no legal reason that we couldn't have
maybe some of the unsuccessful

647
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:24,240
applicants get together start a club and
go out and do things in the community

648
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:29,920
and talk with each other. you
>> union contracts. So

649
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:33,920
» now we talked about that there there
aren't a lot of things for them to do.

650
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:38,480
» Yeah. Yeah. Because like we had
discussed about

651
00:52:35,359 --> 00:52:42,400
» post fireworks for uh Oh, that's where
we have we're doing clean up, right? But

652
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:47,839
we call the worst guys in for overtime.
We do clean up the next day.

653
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:53,920
» So can't take work away from the union
once it's settled.

654
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:56,800
Yeah, in your to work state compared to
the other state.

655
00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:00,400
Maybe the first step
>> to start is if you think of some ideas

656
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:04,720
that you might like to see the
>> group do and then we could kind of

657
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:09,359
reverse engineer it to see if that's
something that would be feasible both

658
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:13,200
legally within our you know contracts
and that we would actually

659
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:17,520
» we've had like uh projects we worked on
like whether that be the uh Boy Scouts,

660
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:22,400
Girl Scouts uh where they propose
projects which are advancements uh which

661
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:24,720
isn't so much maintaining or maintenance
that the union doesn't really have a

662
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,920
problem with. So
>> like the community garden that was

663
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,960
correct,
but when you take away from like the

664
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,599
regular work,
>> that's where you have problems. So

665
00:53:32,319 --> 00:53:38,000
» I don't think you're talking about just
manual labor, right? Like

666
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:45,240
» be like brainstorm and come up with
ideas of like things you can do to

667
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,240
» Yeah, I'll do that.

668
00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:50,119
» Yeah.

669
00:53:52,880 --> 00:54:02,640
» Yeah. me. Okay. Well, I've got a couple
easy things and then the elephant. Um,

670
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:09,119
so first, uh, there's a veterans
breakfast coming up. Um, I understand

671
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:13,760
that Dennis, uh, was very passionate
about that. So, I'm I was supposed to be

672
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:18,720
out of town that weekend, but I'm kind
of working through things and I might,

673
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:22,480
uh, go do a welcome and then head out of
town. But, I'm working through that um,

674
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:29,440
because I know it's important to the
community. Um,

675
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:34,319
uh, I also need to get with, um, Donna
or Zach, I'm not quite sure who, um, to

676
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:39,839
get some social media out there for
hunger month of September. Um, since

677
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,599
made that proclamation at the last
meeting, we need to get some stuff out

678
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:48,319
there on social media now that we are
into September. Um,

679
00:54:45,359 --> 00:54:53,520
» yeah, just send it to to Don at CCB and
we'll get it set up.

680
00:54:49,520 --> 00:55:02,640
» Perfect. Thank you. Um, I also had email
just prior to this meeting um from a

681
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:09,599
group and I talked to Chief uh Leech um
it is a group um that

682
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:16,640
honors and respects first responders
each year um and they are planning this

683
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:22,319
in um
I can't remember the date but um I am

684
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:26,559
working with the chief
to make sure that we have some police

685
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:33,680
there. It's going to be at the fire
station um that they want to honor first

686
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:37,359
responders, both fire and police. So, um
I'm working on that to coordinate.

687
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:42,079
» Is it a group within Franklin Park or
it's a larger group and they just come

688
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:48,160
into communities?
>> Let me tell you, um I know that this has

689
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:54,000
been going on for like nine years.
Um and uh she was was very familiar with

690
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,559
it.
>> Um

691
00:55:54,880 --> 00:56:00,559
» that's fine. I'm just curious. You can
>> It is It is a Hindu group.

692
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,559
» Okay.
>> Um

693
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:13,440
it is a Hindu group HSS.
Um it's a nonprofit socio cultural

694
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:22,799
organization.
Um, and they celebrate each year

695
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:27,680
honoring first responders and so we'll
do that. So, um,

696
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,880
» sorry to interrupt you. September hunger
month or anti-hunger month. I'm not sure

697
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,280
the exact time.
>> Yeah, sorry.

698
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:35,599
» Might be something that Elena can help
with.

699
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:42,400
» Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get in
touch with you. Um,

700
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:50,200
okay. This this um first responder
recognition is Thursday, September 10th

701
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:50,200
at 7 p.m. at the fire department.

702
00:56:52,319 --> 00:57:02,469
Um okay. And then um
who wants to have a cup of coffee at

703
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,469
four quarters? [laughter]

704
00:57:05,359 --> 00:57:12,240
So Chris and I talked about this a
little bit

705
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:15,640
last week. I was a little too late till
I got support

706
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:23,920
for a little bit picture
and thoughts here

707
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:28,559
the owners reach out to Kristen and
I actually will probably join them which

708
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:32,880
should be wise
right

709
00:57:30,799 --> 00:57:40,319
um so just thinking through some of this
a little bit more and just go through

710
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:46,319
you know compromise
hub for it. Um, and just looking through

711
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:50,640
past emails, one of the things for
setting all that out. So, your inbox

712
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:58,000
should have like all the sort of
documents. Um, you know, a couple of

713
00:57:53,599 --> 00:58:02,000
things and you can chime in as well, but
just looking through what they're trying

714
00:57:59,359 --> 00:58:06,480
to do. vision is not what is best as
important like discussion like you know

715
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:12,240
people have different ideas or what not
but we have a long stating not long

716
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:16,480
stating but a long property has a lot
stated right so what is interesting this

717
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:22,640
person is
I guess the requirements or whatnot

718
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:26,559
right so you kind of want to know start
this and think through like hey is there

719
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:29,839
something to think through here in terms
of we don't have very many of these but

720
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:35,680
we also
situations, right? So, do you require a

721
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:40,520
full land development or is it land
development like express?

722
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:48,480
» Okay. I had like 10 pages of but
>> do you mind if I jump in real quick? Go

723
00:58:46,559 --> 00:58:52,319
for it. Um Max and I had a conversation
after the meeting last time and I just

724
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:57,119
wanted to kind of reiterate what I what
Max and I talked about

725
00:58:54,160 --> 00:59:00,319
» um along these same lines. At our last
meeting when Mr. Cooper spoke at the

726
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:05,839
end. We obviously saw he was all very
passionate and frustrated. And for my

727
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:10,880
part, I regret and apologize to Matt
that Max that I did not step in and stop

728
00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:15,920
that before it went as long and as far
as it did in the wrong direction. Um, I

729
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:20,319
regret because first of all, I strongly
believe and still after having gone back

730
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:24,000
and watched the video again, I strongly
believe that

731
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:28,480
u Mr. Cooper had a misunderstanding of
what Max said and what Max meant. And I

732
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,799
wish I would have stepped in and said
and said that in the moment instead of

733
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:37,839
letting it go on as long as it did. So I
did talk to Mr. Browning, not Mr. Mr.

734
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:41,040
Browning after the meeting. He called me
and I said as much to him. I said, "I

735
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:46,160
think you all have a strong
misunderstanding of what Max said and

736
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:48,880
what Max meant and Max's intent." And he
said, "Well, you know, this is what

737
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:54,400
people were telling us that was being
said." And I said, "Okay, well, I was in

738
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:57,440
there. I disagree strongly." and he
said, "Well, okay, we'll go back and

739
00:59:55,839 --> 01:00:00,799
watch it." I haven't spoken to him again
since then. But anyway, before we get

740
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:04,880
before we jump into this, I just wanted
to publicly once again say, "Max, I

741
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:09,319
apologize for not
attempting at least to stop that

742
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:09,319
sooner."

743
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:16,400
» And you handled yourself tully as you
always do. You didn't need me in any

744
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:22,079
way. But you it was not right to let
that go on that long and in that

745
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:27,200
direction especially
feeling that it was he was had been

746
01:00:24,319 --> 01:00:30,960
misinformed about Lisa.
>> And as an aside I'm not either

747
01:00:28,799 --> 01:00:36,079
deliberating nor participating this
conversation

748
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:41,040
» because I filed a you know a refusal and
so

749
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:46,280
» now back to the meat.
Um,

750
01:00:42,799 --> 01:00:46,280
okay. So,

751
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:54,599
what are we trying to do? Are we trying
to as a burrow

752
01:00:54,640 --> 01:01:03,280
give every opportunity
for them

753
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:08,960
to just have goals they cannot meet and
we are looking for reasons why they

754
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:14,880
cannot let this happen?
Or are we trying to facilitate a

755
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:19,760
conversation
so that we can both sides understand

756
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:28,079
what
their vision is? And all they're asking

757
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:34,720
for is to
start small.

758
01:01:31,359 --> 01:01:41,520
And then
if by chance they make this a hu a huge

759
01:01:39,119 --> 01:01:46,160
success and they have to expand the
parking lot and they have to do

760
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:51,680
different things then okay then they
will have the money to do it. But right

761
01:01:48,319 --> 01:01:59,440
now all they are trying to do is start
with a small coffee shop and dump and

762
01:01:56,319 --> 01:02:05,440
they have their variance
um which did not have any conditions

763
01:02:01,839 --> 01:02:12,880
attached to it in writing um from my
understanding and they just want a

764
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:17,040
permit to start. I mean,
I have not heard

765
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:24,160
any
negative comments from any neighbors,

766
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:29,599
any residents of the community.
We are here. If you look at the org

767
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:35,599
chart, and I've said this before, who's
at the top of the org chart? The

768
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:41,760
residents. The residents want this and
they want to make this happen from a

769
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:44,760
small business owner
perspective.

770
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:52,640
It seems to me that we are just looking
for ways like, "Oh, no, no, no, no.

771
01:02:51,119 --> 01:02:58,799
Here's another ordinance. No, no, no,
no. Here's another ordinance." instead

772
01:02:55,119 --> 01:03:02,839
of facilitating with a resident to make
this happen for the community.

773
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:15,680
I I I don't know what um
council's greatest fear is if if council

774
01:03:13,359 --> 01:03:20,880
would decide, okay,
grant them a building permit so they can

775
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:27,359
get started on their small their small
vision that will hopefully grow.

776
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:34,799
What's what what is what's the biggest
fear? And why can't we come to some

777
01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:40,880
understanding of okay if that fear that
biggest fear happens comes to fruition

778
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:49,119
all right let's put a condition on it
but they'll fix it if that fear comes to

779
01:03:44,319 --> 01:03:58,880
be I it just it comes back to their
argument to me is common sense and what

780
01:03:54,240 --> 01:04:06,240
the community wants and common sense
and looking for all these little reasons

781
01:04:04,079 --> 01:04:11,680
just frustrates them. And I know it
frustrates everybody in this room,

782
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:19,119
but I don't think we're using common
sense.

783
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:24,960
And I am not I do not believe
I I caution myself

784
01:04:21,599 --> 01:04:31,280
that I am not naive
that they are pulling one over.

785
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:39,200
I've met with them and talked with them
enough times that they have a heart for

786
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:45,119
bringing coffee and deli sandwiches to
Franklin Park and the burrow is not

787
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:50,200
helping them.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But

788
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:58,240
I I think we need to have some common
sense. It it's really hard to issue

789
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,200
permits. No applications have ever been
made.

790
01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:04,559
» Whatever it is
>> for building or for development.

791
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:07,520
I don't know how we're supposed to give
cart blocks per building if if we don't

792
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:11,839
get anything on.
>> They're not building. They are not

793
01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:15,039
changing the footprint.
>> Like I said, they're not changing the

794
01:05:13,039 --> 01:05:17,680
footprint. What do they
>> I don't know. You tell me. They don't

795
01:05:17,119 --> 01:05:22,440
know
>> anything.

796
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:22,440
» They don't know. Max

797
01:05:22,799 --> 01:05:31,520
» because they they from a ground point
they do not feel that the underlying um

798
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:35,119
issue [clears throat] is that they do
not have to go through the land

799
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:42,480
development process. So they do not want
to go through that expense and that cost

800
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:47,839
and all of that if they don't have to.
So they cannot have they do not they

801
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:54,960
have not had [gasps]
I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm getting a

802
01:05:51,039 --> 01:06:02,240
little bit um vocal.
They do not feel that they have had a

803
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:08,400
venue to speak with counsel or with
whomever in the burrow to actually

804
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:14,240
understand
and have a voice.

805
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:21,119
They have asked to speak to council.
They have not had that opportunity.

806
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:30,240
They want to understand and they told me
Kristen if you come back to me and say

807
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:35,359
this is it you're done they will respect
me if that's the answer but I don't

808
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:42,920
think that's the right answer. I think
we need to find a way to make this

809
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:42,920
happen for Franklin Park.

810
01:06:45,039 --> 01:06:55,440
» Well, uh, I'd say first and foremost,
yes, we have given them audiences. I

811
01:06:52,160 --> 01:07:00,000
mean, I came out, drove out here. We're
not getting reimbured. They don't have

812
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:05,280
an application. Uh, at the meeting in
miday, we had some takeaways. We don't

813
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:12,680
get information back with respect to
that. Overall, the issue is this was a

814
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,680
subdevelopment.

815
01:07:19,039 --> 01:07:23,760
» I don't know if that's a good omen or
bad,

816
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:27,280
» but
the

817
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:33,760
issue
though was a subdivision.

818
01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:40,640
We don't have original land developments
that would have set forth traffic

819
01:07:36,799 --> 01:07:45,440
circulation and everything else with yes
they're doing a change of use. Yes,

820
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:48,480
they've gotten a use variance, but
because they're changing the use,

821
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:53,520
they've got playground equipment all
through the back. They got a swimming

822
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:59,440
pool. They have a parking lot that is
not designed for an eating place. And my

823
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:04,160
biggest concern and I told them this
that is health, safety, welfare. You are

824
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:07,599
going to be a community feature like
they want to be that they want people

825
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:11,520
you know in the neighborhood not to have
to drive there and they don't care about

826
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:16,239
the parking or otherwise but to walk
over there and there is no pedestrian

827
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:22,319
connection and no sidewalks and anything
else and you've got a jumble of a

828
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:29,679
parking lot right now that somebody's
going to get. So that's at least my view

829
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:34,719
of why we do land development, you know,
at all, public health, safety, welfare.

830
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:39,759
» And I disagree. I mean, when young roll
was there, oh my gosh, there was how

831
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:43,120
many parents with cars and little kids?
>> Yes. But how many people were walking?

832
01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:46,159
» This is going to be people going in for
a coffee.

833
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:50,080
» Well, so different.
>> In fact, when you

834
01:08:47,839 --> 01:08:52,640
» safer, we keep hearing they haven't
applied for anything. It's true. They

835
01:08:51,359 --> 01:08:55,839
haven't applied for a land development.
Although in one of the emails they did

836
01:08:54,159 --> 01:08:58,560
say that they did, but then they weren't
sure of the cost. They're not convinced

837
01:08:58,159 --> 01:09:02,480
about it.
>> Oh, yeah. They they returned away at the

838
01:09:00,480 --> 01:09:05,440
front desk
because the front desk didn't know how

839
01:09:04,239 --> 01:09:08,799
much to charge them.
>> No, they weren't.

840
01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:11,839
» That wasn't the impression I got from
the email. I got the impression that

841
01:09:10,159 --> 01:09:14,880
they were going to get either him or
somebody else is going to get back to

842
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:18,080
the boss, but the application was
actually taped. That's

843
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:21,520
» Yeah. Well, I have a letter to that was
written months ago that specifically

844
01:09:20,239 --> 01:09:27,359
tells the feast.
>> Okay. Well, the crux of the issue is

845
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:31,440
they according to the ordinances that
they're looking at don't believe that

846
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:36,159
development this is development under
our ordinances.

847
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:40,239
» They they hire legal team to prove that
and we have yet to receive anything from

848
01:09:37,839 --> 01:09:43,920
that legal team to say on the ones.
>> Okay. But what do we do have things from

849
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,520
them in terms of plans? I don't know if
we have an actual application

850
01:09:44,843 --> 01:09:51,120
[clears throat]
that may be accurate,

851
01:09:47,759 --> 01:09:56,560
» but we do have plans from them. a Google
map screenshot with parking lines

852
01:09:54,320 --> 01:10:02,159
plastered onto it by an engineer did not
give us any information we need to do an

853
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:06,640
actual review like we would normally do.
>> Okay. Maybe I just want to ask the

854
01:10:04,159 --> 01:10:12,400
documents and artifacts they sent how
are they engineering that provide

855
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:17,040
documentation to
>> they're not they're not engineer

856
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:18,719
drawings they're survey drawings they're
just best

857
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:24,239
» but they're stamped
>> best guesses no they're not

858
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:27,840
» the plans I saw were some
>> what they gave us

859
01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:30,560
» if they were if they were of the same
>> that's why everything goes through the

860
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:34,320
burrow so that we have it they're going
through council members and shown you

861
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:37,360
guys different information than us. How
can we do our

862
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:40,159
» then emails I think that Chris is
referring to at least Tim was copied on.

863
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:47,120
But hold on, we're getting into the
weeds here. So again, their argument is

864
01:10:44,239 --> 01:10:51,760
this is not development.
The burough's argument is that it is

865
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:58,560
development, but
because there never was a land

866
01:10:54,239 --> 01:11:01,440
development plan filed. But months ago
when they were asking for all this

867
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:05,600
stuff, that was not the argument from
the bureau. The argument was, well, you

868
01:11:03,199 --> 01:11:07,440
have to do this and that and this and
whatever is.

869
01:11:06,159 --> 01:11:12,800
» And this afternoon it was a different
argument, but and maybe they never did

870
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:20,159
those things. But maybe let's look at
what exactly is it that is required

871
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:24,960
and kind of move forward that way
because I don't I think at least maybe

872
01:11:22,719 --> 01:11:28,000
council and
maybe them and maybe you all have a

873
01:11:26,719 --> 01:11:34,000
different understanding of what actually
is required. I'm not sure anyone

874
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:38,000
actually knows. I mean,
>> let me say this just before anybody

875
01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:41,840
understands before when this was just an
idea in their heads, they came in and

876
01:11:39,679 --> 01:11:47,040
talked to me at least two times before
they went to the zone, right? And I

877
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:51,199
spent a lot of time with them explaining
from A to Z what they're what they're up

878
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:55,760
against. Um, land development. I told
them about sidewalks. I told them about

879
01:11:53,440 --> 01:12:00,800
parking. I told them about
>> storm water. I told them about

880
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:04,320
landscaping and and they were very
receptive to that. I also told them

881
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:08,719
about building code issues and they
understood that they didn't know which

882
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:12,320
way to go. They had that and I I advised
them that they probably have two

883
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:15,840
directions to go and they can either go
to council and ask them to change the

884
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:19,760
ordinance for them. So they could do
that use there or they could make an

885
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:26,400
application for a zoning variance for
use variance. They did try to go to

886
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:32,080
council. Um they did ask for for
allowance to go in there, change of of

887
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:35,760
use, whatever zoning change there, it
went to planning commission. The

888
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:39,360
planning commission came back and it
that fell flat flat in its face. So,

889
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:43,840
they made the application to the zoning
hearing board. The zoning hearing board

890
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:50,719
heard their concerns. They heard the
concerns of the public um initially. Um

891
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:53,920
they they heard my discussion
reiterating the fact that they will have

892
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:58,239
to go through a land development
process. There will be storm water that

893
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:01,679
they'll have to address. There will be
parking that they have to address. There

894
01:12:59,679 --> 01:13:05,199
will be sidewalks they'll have to
address. There have to be building codes

895
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:10,080
they have to address.
>> This is none of this none of this is a

896
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:15,920
surprise for them.
>> And and it's not writing.

897
01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:20,480
» Are you in the transcript that say
>> it's in a transcript

898
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:22,880
» but not in the documents they were
given. Well, it doesn't need

899
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:26,400
» there's no documents that they were
given for use in the final order from

900
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:31,679
the
>> they could have specified much more but

901
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:35,920
you don't need to those conditions that
you do are usually things that are not

902
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:40,560
in the ordinance just like we talked
about with the conditional use. We have

903
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:45,920
a list of requirements there. But if the
specifics of a use variance,

904
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:50,400
conventional variance or conditional use
require additional condition, that's

905
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:53,920
when we added in and
>> it should have been in writing,

906
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:59,679
» not a trans.
>> Okay. So this is where we are now to

907
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:03,120
learn but what are we actually
acquiring?

908
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:06,560
You know, because we did a phased
approach of strengthening it. So there's

909
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:12,400
some things some things here on the
sidewalks right

910
01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:17,600
and there's going through the process
requested modifications of which council

911
01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:22,800
based on the wants of the community
>> made those decisions but that was post

912
01:14:19,679 --> 01:14:27,120
application post process
>> yeah that's the issue we can't get past

913
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:32,159
square one and I I mean regardless of
what happened out there and some of the

914
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:36,000
vitriol that's there want to see this
thing developed we had our fights with

915
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:40,239
Young World that was fine. We were able
to address some issues there. It was

916
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:46,719
always a problem. We always had issues
with how many kids they had there. This

917
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:53,280
would be a community asset, but that
doesn't give you the right to just sort

918
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:57,760
of, you know, not apply for anything or
just go in and do whatever you want

919
01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:05,360
because it's good for the community in
the short term. Uh, and I think

920
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:10,000
» you tried to lay it out. Well, they come
and talk. They put the banners up, not

921
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:13,760
citing them for the banners. Uh, we had
the meeting. We told them what our

922
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:17,920
expectations were talked to them. And I
think part of the problem is they, as

923
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:22,480
they've said before, they're not exactly
sure what they're going to do. And their

924
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:26,719
parking count is driven by the number of
seats. So, how many seats are they

925
01:15:24,159 --> 01:15:30,080
» The parking count has changed.
>> How so?

926
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,960
» Because when I was at the meeting with
you,

927
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:35,360
» Yes.
>> here. Um it went from two to one to four

928
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:38,960
to one
>> because we pointed out to them there are

929
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:44,159
two provisions in the
>> no problem with with parking

930
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:48,719
» pointed out to them. Yes. And we told
them you get the least restrictive one

931
01:15:46,719 --> 01:15:54,239
and they asked again recently and we
repeated that it's in the parking table

932
01:15:52,000 --> 01:16:00,320
as opposed to in the conditional use
requirements for an eating applied but

933
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:04,400
they don't know how many seats they want
to have. and what is their trade going

934
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:10,280
to be at least in terms of those
discussions we've had and

935
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,280
» so

936
01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:22,080
they don't know what to provide because
my understanding is that as soon as they

937
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:27,760
spend all the money and do this land
development plan and submit everything

938
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:32,800
that is going against their argument
that they don't need to do that in the

939
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:35,920
first place. So they don't want to have
to go through that cost because they

940
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,719
don't believe that they have to do that
in the first place.

941
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:46,400
» So I just want to ask like in the emails
is like just do some search was the

942
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:48,400
application fee looks like $980 plus
that correct

943
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:55,120
» something like that.
>> Okay. So that is the land development

944
01:16:51,120 --> 01:17:00,239
fee rate the application.
like the total the total the output

945
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:07,120
what's that look like is that
>> that is just for us that they will have

946
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:10,480
to pay an engineer to design and do
>> what it is more so than a Google

947
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:13,040
» so when you do something like this
you're going to need three different

948
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:17,199
professions you're going to need an
architect because they have to they have

949
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:23,600
to design changes for interior the
structure they need a a civil engineer

950
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:29,520
to design the site an important with our
ordinance and they need a surveyor to

951
01:17:26,239 --> 01:17:33,440
show boundaries and the setbacks
property.

952
01:17:31,199 --> 01:17:37,040
I'm not sure what type of engineer that
they had. I don't believe he was a civil

953
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:41,040
engineer.
Pretty darn sure he wasn't surveyor and

954
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:46,960
he wasn't an architect. The information
that we had was just blown up pictures

955
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:54,960
with overlays and the information
surveys I have pre previous

956
01:17:51,440 --> 01:17:57,760
don't match where he's showing property.
So

957
01:17:55,199 --> 01:18:02,000
» that's I just want to ask so those are
three artifacts that the bureau requires

958
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:05,280
» that that's three things that you need
when you went to

959
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:09,440
» if you're doing land development but
that is the core question.

960
01:18:06,719 --> 01:18:13,360
» Okay. So I just just sticking to this.
So the architectural broads are like the

961
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:17,360
exterior, right?
>> Okay.

962
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:20,000
» So similar to what Franklin
>> because we saw seating

963
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:25,199
» well they're going to need an architect
to design

964
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:29,679
» that's when they're going and
even though they have existing parking

965
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:36,320
that parking is not going to be adequate
for accessibility. accessibility is

966
01:18:32,719 --> 01:18:43,760
going to take flat portion of the lot
repaved, rebraided to make it accessible

967
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:50,080
to build an entaring lot into there. So,
you know, and and the parking that they

968
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:56,560
showed was was stacked. It was in the
right of ways. Not all of it, but but a

969
01:18:52,880 --> 01:19:00,480
significant amount of. And um I don't I
don't believe they have they're actually

970
01:18:58,159 --> 01:19:05,679
showing the pictures when I matched it
up to the actual survey that I have. So

971
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:07,920
there's a lot of questions about
>> So those are three documents that they

972
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:14,320
need.
>> Yeah. And and there's there's definitely

973
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:18,239
issues they have council
>> and I know that coffee shops and

974
01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:22,000
renewable natural gas plants are two
different things. But, you know, in my

975
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:25,679
day job, you know, these people that are
looking for loans to build these kind of

976
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:31,520
plants and look to have them insured,
they don't have, you know, those kind

977
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:34,080
of, for lack of better term, basics.
They're not going to get that insurance

978
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,679
and they're not going to get that low
here.

979
01:19:36,159 --> 01:19:41,199
And our our planning commission has made
it very clear. They want sidewalks. They

980
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:44,880
want for sidewalks. We did their
comprehensive plan. That was

981
01:19:42,719 --> 01:19:48,560
connectivity was one of one of our main
priorities even with Franklin in where

982
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:52,880
they don't have sidewalks either side
reinforce sidewalks

983
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:56,320
without going to the the permanent
processes.

984
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:59,920
» So connect me and the sidewalk from my
house to the people at the corner with

985
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:03,920
trees
>> but you're not redeveloping

986
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:08,360
» and we could if we wanted to assess a
footront basis but the council's done.

987
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:14,000
Okay.
>> So the development would require

988
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:17,040
If let's say we're going through the
development process, it would require

989
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:19,360
sidewalks at the minimum and probably
more sidewalks.

990
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:24,560
» They can request modifications just like
anybody else, but they still have to

991
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:27,560
plan sidewalks, storm water,
landscaping.

992
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:32,560
» I mean, I'm talking exterior. I know you
still need architectural drawings and

993
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:36,000
stuff.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're going to

994
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:40,719
have to
follow you and say and and if they don't

995
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:45,360
have I mean, if council wants to say
ignore the ordinance to these guys, I'm

996
01:20:42,719 --> 01:20:50,960
fine with that. I don't live here, so
you know, whatever. That's fine. But

997
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:55,440
there's going to be zoning issues that
>> I don't have to do that.

998
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:59,440
» We should do that
or change the ordinances. We can change

999
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:05,199
the ordinances. Don't require these
things for land buildings. But again,

1000
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:10,960
you can't be selective and and that's
that's I think the issue, one of the

1001
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:16,080
issues here and and the other thing is
this this is that none of this is any

1002
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:19,679
surprise and it shouldn't be.
>> I think it's fair to say this is we're

1003
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:24,480
being selective. I think this is a very
unique property and unique situation and

1004
01:21:22,159 --> 01:21:28,159
perhaps I I know you and I read the
transcript of the zoning hearing board

1005
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:32,080
hearing. I know you settle these things
to them that might not have they might

1006
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:36,320
might not have realized the scope of
that. That's not your issue. That's

1007
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:40,719
their issue. Uh
but I think we need to look at how does

1008
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:44,080
this move forward one way or the other.
Whether it moves forward with their

1009
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:48,080
project, whether we do something else
like Kristen said this or maybe you said

1010
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:53,679
this, this property has been vacant for
a while now. It's an eyes sore and the

1011
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:58,960
community wants something there. So what
do we do on our part to move forward?

1012
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:02,239
» Regardless, there's a variance for that
property that runs with the land. So

1013
01:22:00,639 --> 01:22:06,560
even if they don't develop it and they
sell it, there will still have the

1014
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:12,320
capacity of a non through the eery or
non drive-thru eery to go in there. It's

1015
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:16,320
just how fast that process takes.
Um but we, you know, they've been told

1016
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:19,920
by the department head, this is the
process they need to go to. They've been

1017
01:22:18,239 --> 01:22:23,600
told by myself, which is your your
administrator, it's the process they

1018
01:22:21,199 --> 01:22:27,840
need to go to. told by our lawyers the
process that we need to go through and

1019
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:31,679
so now they're going to the the last
council

1020
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:34,400
uh and so um
>> I actually started with counsel but I

1021
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:37,920
realiz
>> but we've gone through all the steps

1022
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:41,440
this is you know
>> I think their frustration and not to

1023
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:44,400
speak
put words in their mouth but I think

1024
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:50,320
their frustration is and you've seen
some of these emails they're pointing to

1025
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:55,120
several ordinances that they argue show
that it is not development And I think

1026
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:59,920
the issue that that it that we don't
have a site development plan didn't come

1027
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:04,960
up until later. And so
again, as I understand it, their

1028
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:08,800
frustration is that they felt like they
kept being told this was development,

1029
01:23:07,199 --> 01:23:12,159
but they weren't able, no one was able
to nail down why. And then all of a

1030
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:15,600
sudden, we're like, "Oh, wait. It's
because we don't actually have land

1031
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:18,880
development for this. It's not because
all these other reasons that we were

1032
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:22,560
arguing before." And I think that is a
big part of their frustration, which I

1033
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:28,080
completely understand, but again, the
issue comes down to what are we getting?

1034
01:23:26,159 --> 01:23:32,080
» Well, the other thing too is if they
don't feel that they have to comply with

1035
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:35,199
with zoning requirements, there's an
appeal process.

1036
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:39,760
» I don't think again they don't feel they
have to comply. I think they disagree

1037
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:42,480
that that is what applies to them. And
whether that is them, that's an appeal

1038
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:46,080
process.
>> Right. I agree. But what I'm saying is I

1039
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:51,040
don't think they're saying they don't
have to comply. I think they're saying

1040
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:53,840
that something else applies to
>> and that land devel I mean I'll take

1041
01:23:52,639 --> 01:23:57,920
ownership. I mean, I did not get
involved in this until their first

1042
01:23:55,280 --> 01:24:01,199
attorney reached out, right, April or
something. And that's when I started

1043
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:04,159
pulling together and going through
saying, "Well, okay, where's the land

1044
01:24:02,480 --> 01:24:08,560
development that they got originally?"
Oh, it never had one. So, that's I was,

1045
01:24:06,719 --> 01:24:15,920
"Well, here's the provision that says,
you know, any land development, whatever

1046
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:22,400
one I own otherwise, that's on me coming
late to discussion and sitting down."

1047
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:24,960
Yeah. In the process of their
Yeah, I

1048
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:29,760
» in the main discussion we had talked
about uh you know parking was a concern

1049
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:34,560
right where
>> yeah we we had hop that you know the

1050
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:39,280
right of entrance and exits were
approved by pendot that the a survey was

1051
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:43,679
done with where the ultimate setbacks
are so that we know parking's out of the

1052
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:48,719
rightways like those details that we
need in order to move forward. So there

1053
01:24:46,159 --> 01:24:54,320
I'm trying to think like the Timson
appeal process everything else we're at

1054
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:59,600
such a fundamental you know basis of how
do you even proceed or not proceed or

1055
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:04,800
otherwise it's all these other
modifications waiverss adjustments come

1056
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:13,520
with a an application
they say we don't do it and MPC does

1057
01:25:08,480 --> 01:25:19,199
have a mediation process uh there in in
it you know so that's one consideration.

1058
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:23,199
Nobody has used it in years. They'd have
to dust it off. I don't even know. I've

1059
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:29,440
never been through one. Um, but it does
set forth a process mostly for zoning,

1060
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:35,360
but I think there's cross references to
uh subdivision and land development. So

1061
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:41,760
barring like litigation where there's a
declaratory judgment action filed others

1062
01:25:38,639 --> 01:25:47,280
there be some split costs you can have a
mediator

1063
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:55,040
essentially review certain issues. This
might be one of those types of a neutral

1064
01:25:52,000 --> 01:26:00,960
paid by both sides and deal with
whatever they say in terms of

1065
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:05,840
like I said is not often used. It's
there might have a per vision of it in

1066
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:11,440
our zoning ordinance but um that's one
thing to perhaps consider rings more

1067
01:26:08,719 --> 01:26:16,719
expense. They want to do anything that's
less expensive than an actual full-blown

1068
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:20,239
um plan development plan survey and
everything else.

1069
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:24,880
» I just
common sense.

1070
01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:27,040
» So they're going to do a survey,
>> right?

1071
01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,760
» You said they were in May. We never
received that.

1072
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:31,199
» So let's pretend they're going to do
that right now.

1073
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:35,120
» Okay.
>> That's a farmland development process

1074
01:26:32,719 --> 01:26:40,800
setting. Great.
>> I understand that's part of it.

1075
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:44,320
» And so that's That's already checked.
The other item, the other two items like

1076
01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:48,080
architectural drawing, would they need
that anyways?

1077
01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:52,760
» The architectural drawings they'll need
for their for their building permit.

1078
01:26:53,360 --> 01:27:00,520
» And aren't the engineering drawings? Are
they a part of anything other?

1079
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:07,920
» That's where all the design is going to
come from. That's for all their

1080
01:27:04,719 --> 01:27:12,800
specified landscaping their details to
their sidewalk there.

1081
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:15,520
» If they did not do that, that would not
be they would not be doing that, right?

1082
01:27:14,639 --> 01:27:19,280
Correct.
>> Okay.

1083
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:23,840
» But I'm pretty sure
>> So they're still going to have to

1084
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:26,400
» they're going to do that stuff, right?
>> Whether they want to go through the

1085
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:30,159
formal process or not, they're going to
generate the fun.

1086
01:27:28,239 --> 01:27:33,600
» They are.
Okay.

1087
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:38,800
Uh yeah. As far as parking goes, I mean
like I said

1088
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:45,080
that session
was like

1089
01:27:40,719 --> 01:27:45,080
issued there. Um

1090
01:27:45,199 --> 01:27:51,880
yeah, so they all stuff with the
application and ask for like these 10

1091
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:51,880
wers

1092
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:59,120
in writing have a basis.
>> Okay.

1093
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:03,199
» But they can't meet parking standards.
They can apply for

1094
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:04,960
» they can apply for a reason.
>> Okay.

1095
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,960
» I think we I feel like we had worked
through the parking.

1096
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:10,320
» Yeah.
>> And I don't remember when at this point

1097
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:15,360
there's been a lot of conversations
about this, but I feel like they

1098
01:28:13,199 --> 01:28:19,280
submitted their parking plan
>> was a stamped engineer draw.

1099
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:25,520
» Correct. But at that point, I think
someone reviewed it and the last comment

1100
01:28:21,440 --> 01:28:28,400
was, "We just need this on a survey to
show us that these are in the proper

1101
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:33,920
locations." And we I realize we never
got that. Um and once we get that, maybe

1102
01:28:32,239 --> 01:28:38,560
we'll see.
>> Our last meeting she said to Anela

1103
01:28:36,639 --> 01:28:42,480
thinks that their lawyer said they were
going to supply us, right?

1104
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:45,040
» Uh to prove that what they want to do
could work, right? We've never received

1105
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:48,639
anything since.
>> Yeah, I remember Max sending an email

1106
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:52,000
following up saying these are the open
items still.

1107
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:55,199
» Um
>> and I don't know that we've

1108
01:28:53,199 --> 01:29:01,199
» Well, we did. I mean, yes, we got a copy
of the consent order that we entered in

1109
01:28:58,480 --> 01:29:04,199
the enforcement action over the the
playground.

1110
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:15,120
That was essentially a land development
approval, council approve, wasn't that

1111
01:29:11,679 --> 01:29:19,920
just listed again pendant information.
Was there a land developer they found in

1112
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:23,199
their title search? Um,
>> survey

1113
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:28,639
» and survey. you know sort of issue. Uh
and yes in the last you know couple days

1114
01:29:25,679 --> 01:29:35,120
they just asked again about provisions
why there two or which one applies the

1115
01:29:31,679 --> 01:29:43,280
same answer we did
one space for every four of seats plus

1116
01:29:39,440 --> 01:29:47,840
for one each peak employee
shift. So that's the thing that how do

1117
01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:50,639
you figure that out when you don't know
how many seats you're going to have, how

1118
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:54,880
many employees you're going to have.
It's sort of a

1119
01:29:52,080 --> 01:30:00,120
» well then we specify 18 seats
>> 18 seats

1120
01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:00,120
» um at at one point.

1121
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:11,280
So uh problem is that there was
almost half parking spaces either in the

1122
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:18,639
right away or weren't parked on
in position where they met our

1123
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:21,639
ordinances as far as
location.

1124
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:30,320
So yeah, I'm just curious and uh because
we asked them to do and a few things and

1125
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:35,040
uh they probably
uh they either you know didn't do it or

1126
01:30:32,719 --> 01:30:41,280
because of some other reasons and they
choose like not to do it is it's because

1127
01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:43,760
that is very expensive to complete those
things.

1128
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:47,199
» Well, I I mean we don't we don't set the
prices for somebody else to do the

1129
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:54,360
engineering. So I mean that's that's
something that they have to do. you

1130
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:54,360
know, our fees our fees are um

1131
01:30:54,719 --> 01:31:03,679
about $7,500 bucks. I I don't remember
exactly what the number was, but we have

1132
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:10,800
um application fee of $900. And then we
have an escro fee for um reviews to

1133
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:17,280
happen um from our solicitor from our
engineer and anyone solicitor who we

1134
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:22,719
draw off of for um review and
preparation of agreements and things

1135
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:27,760
like that. But that also has to be kept
up. And on a lot of cases, if you don't

1136
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:32,159
have a good engineer, your expenses, and
we're going to ask you another word of

1137
01:31:29,679 --> 01:31:37,920
stops because that whittleles away
quickly. You know, it it's not it's not

1138
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:42,000
cheap for our engineer to spend hours,
you know, reviewing it or our solicitor

1139
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:47,920
to spend hours preparing, you know,
whatever he needs to do um for the true

1140
01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:52,480
process. So a lot of times we do have to
go back to the till and say you know we

1141
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:55,840
need more money here.
>> So this is just cost on the borrow but

1142
01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:58,560
they need to have
>> they need to pay us they need to pay

1143
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:02,480
their professionals.
>> They also need to pay like a architect

1144
01:32:00,719 --> 01:32:05,840
or like an engineer or
>> Yeah. So they'll pay them and then

1145
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:10,520
that's on that's before they can even
obtain a building permit and start work.

1146
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:17,560
health department

1147
01:32:20,480 --> 01:32:26,800
cost.
>> So it'll be six figures to do all that.

1148
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:33,360
» Sure. And but you know this was going to
be a very big business for and if if

1149
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:38,239
they're selling good coffee, good food,
it's going to be very busy then. Um you

1150
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:42,560
know honestly
if they if they decide

1151
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:46,159
as they stated that what happened.
They're going to walk away from this.

1152
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:49,159
They're going to sell it without
somebody.

1153
01:32:53,760 --> 01:33:00,800
» Okay. Anything else to add? Does this
seem like you have anything else?

1154
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:05,120
» I don't think so. I mean, if we're going
to meet with them, I guess let's just a

1155
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:12,320
clear understanding.
So they have sent submitted documents

1156
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:17,360
over I mean probably a year ago now that
included parking which that was later

1157
01:33:14,639 --> 01:33:20,800
but what would what did they originally
submit? Do you remember what was what

1158
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:23,199
would you have? They have submitted
four.

1159
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:26,400
» But they hard to remember.
>> They submitted things and then they

1160
01:33:24,639 --> 01:33:29,280
submitted more things with some some
changes.

1161
01:33:28,719 --> 01:33:34,000
» Were those
>> it was almost like they only

1162
01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:37,760
» No, there was no there were there was no
the application isn't complete.

1163
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:40,239
So
>> is not complete unless they're flooded.

1164
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:44,719
But
>> the size of the of the drawings and

1165
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:49,840
everything um the type of drawings
information on the drawings is not was

1166
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:54,960
not what they needed. I mean honestly if
they they would have paid their fees

1167
01:33:51,520 --> 01:34:00,159
they would have got probably
75 comments from me and the engineer

1168
01:33:57,199 --> 01:34:02,719
because there was just they weren't they
weren't your typical engineer drawings

1169
01:34:01,679 --> 01:34:06,400
for site plans
>> before

1170
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:10,719
» what they said they turned in was their
development site development plan before

1171
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:14,960
that the documents that they submitted
what were they submitting for

1172
01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:19,520
they applying for something or
>> well they they were trying to show us

1173
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:24,080
how the site was going to Was
that required?

1174
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:26,320
Assuming
that under their assumption they were

1175
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:29,280
not going through the development
process. I guess my

1176
01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:34,320
» they were trying to show us how how how
it's going to work without going through

1177
01:34:30,719 --> 01:34:38,040
the development process, but that's
that's not the thing.

1178
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:48,159
» So there's just these free floating
documents that they were submitting to

1179
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:53,520
the burrow without any kind of
outside of any formal process.

1180
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:58,000
» They're really formal
trying to disturb the process.

1181
01:34:56,639 --> 01:35:03,360
» Well, I don't think that's fair to say.
Again, their understanding based on the

1182
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:08,880
ordinances that they quoted and sent uh
at the time their argument was, you

1183
01:35:06,639 --> 01:35:12,480
know, this not land development because
in addition to an existing

1184
01:35:10,719 --> 01:35:16,560
non-residential structure that totals
less than 10% of the total gross area

1185
01:35:14,239 --> 01:35:19,120
floor area, the existing non-residential
structure on the site is not land

1186
01:35:18,159 --> 01:35:23,600
development. So, I think that's what
they were going with or at least looking

1187
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:27,760
to not go through the land development
process. So, I'm just wondering what

1188
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:30,800
again I'm getting this isn't really
central to the issue, but I don't

1189
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:37,320
understand why they were submitting
things if they were outside of any kind

1190
01:35:34,159 --> 01:35:37,320
of process.

1191
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:46,480
» Yeah. I mean, I think it's
somewhat typical, Tim, just in terms of

1192
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:50,239
you talking to any types of developers
or anybody coming in that just wants to

1193
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:54,320
do a residential, you know, addition.
They might have draft plans and might

1194
01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:57,920
show you here's a concept that I'm
working with. We have a pre-application

1195
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:03,040
process. Somebody can go without
applying, go to the planning commission,

1196
01:36:00,159 --> 01:36:06,480
get comments beforehand. So that's what
at least when

1197
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:12,480
understood it was sort of that back and
forth of or get you comfortable that

1198
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:15,480
this is not a develop.
>> Yeah.

1199
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:24,000
So I I mean I you know
they're trying to gauge what they're

1200
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:27,679
interested in what what are they going
to be up against what what they have to

1201
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:32,480
do with
>> fine with what they heard at the zone

1202
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:38,560
hearing board and original discussions
and maybe thought was a little less

1203
01:36:34,719 --> 01:36:40,239
formal. It was okay it's my drawing that
I'm standing there as an application

1204
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:43,520
process
>> and I what I don't understand is what

1205
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:48,480
they're hanging their head on saying
that they they don't have to go through.

1206
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:51,760
I mean, who's advising?
>> Well, I can't answer that. I can just

1207
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:55,840
read the email that they sent and
highlighted parts of the ordinance.

1208
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:59,760
» What I saw from there, the the
commercial attorney

1209
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:03,199
beforehand,
you know, I think it was some, you know,

1210
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:08,880
comment letters from the engineer they
had sort of at the time of just pulling

1211
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:13,360
parts from the web page or definition of
development and just saying that this

1212
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:17,600
this doesn't meet it. not making that
other

1213
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:24,400
I'll say leap but other idea that there
was never a land development for this

1214
01:37:19,679 --> 01:37:29,360
unique property say that been daycare
1980

1215
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:33,760
» so if there had been a land development
site or plan for this site

1216
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:38,800
» before which I don't understand how we
never did but that's a separate issue

1217
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:44,480
» um if there had been one or if we found
one would they need to

1218
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:49,440
I think we would look at it to see was
it was it there in terms of the parking

1219
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:54,880
or or otherwise
then you might be the overall layout or

1220
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:59,199
others. But the complicating feature I
think is going to be the the changes to

1221
01:37:57,280 --> 01:38:04,639
particularly building codes since then
and how you do accessibility in terms of

1222
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:10,239
parking. I don't know if they would have
had

1223
01:38:06,480 --> 01:38:14,800
cap parking in a 1970s plan development.
Well, plus plus there was no there was

1224
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:19,960
no continued non-conformable
because because the the building

1225
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:26,960
also
addition to the

1226
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:30,960
» I don't talk about the storm water.
because it wasn't storm water. It wasn't

1227
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:34,800
an issue.
>> They were unable to prove that they

1228
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:38,159
could do the pardoning
>> before he before they got their own.

1229
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:44,199
» Yeah.
>> There was no

1230
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:44,199
do I really have to pay this?

1231
01:38:46,719 --> 01:38:56,639
» But you you mentioned some level of like
phasing. Is that an idea? say like until

1232
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:59,440
they open as like a popup temporary use
for a little bit and then

1233
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:04,400
» um
>> they they they have short-term vision

1234
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:11,119
and long-term vision depending on how
things go. um you know um short term

1235
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:19,679
they want to just sell coffee and some
sandwiches and um in the future there's

1236
01:39:15,679 --> 01:39:26,080
upstairs where there's a large office
and then also some other rooms that they

1237
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:32,400
thought you know in the future maybe we
can like have like rent it out or or

1238
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:36,719
maybe not rent it out but just like
space for businesses you you

1239
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:40,560
an extra room,
>> an extra room for, you know, my

1240
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:44,719
husband's meet with a client um over
coffee and a sandwich and have like a

1241
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:52,159
designated room that people could
reserve. Um, but for now they just want

1242
01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:58,719
to open up to have coffee counter and a
deli counter

1243
01:39:55,280 --> 01:40:04,000
with some tables
and then whatever brings the future to

1244
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:08,880
expand and whatever they may need to do
in future to expand.

1245
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:12,800
» Well, the concern is what happens if
they fail. You just have to get through

1246
01:40:10,480 --> 01:40:17,119
the whole process without
doing anything.

1247
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:21,760
What do you mean? like like if they want
to do like a small scale open

1248
01:40:20,239 --> 01:40:27,360
don't have to do the full development
because test run that test run fails

1249
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:30,320
then the building never got better
business failed and it never went

1250
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:36,159
through processes
>> right I'm failing to see the

1251
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:40,440
» I jumped in so I'm going to do the same
thing so I'm not

1252
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:40,440
» Yeah

1253
01:40:44,159 --> 01:40:49,040
» business owners might but Yeah.
Municipalities. Yeah.

1254
01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:55,280
» Yeah. Well, I don't think we need to
walk through hypotheticals, but um it's

1255
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:57,679
an important sub.
>> Yeah.

1256
01:40:56,560 --> 01:41:04,639
» Um
>> so yeah, didn't want to keep it this

1257
01:41:00,159 --> 01:41:08,239
long for a non topic thing, but um I
want to make sure we discuss this. So

1258
01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:16,639
sounds like we're going to meet with
them actually. Um you know, some ideas.

1259
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:23,520
» Yeah. Uh in my mind it sounds like basic
application would be the handful of

1260
01:41:18,719 --> 01:41:26,520
things that you are looking at as a two
obligation.

1261
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:35,440
» We need to know what they need relief
from.

1262
01:41:34,719 --> 01:41:38,239
» Yeah. Yeah.
>> Because we don't have enough good

1263
01:41:36,719 --> 01:41:41,679
information to make those turn
>> with standard. Yeah. with standard

1264
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:45,520
office with the Franklin, they submitted
everything without modifications. We

1265
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:50,080
told them what modifications would be
beneficial to them

1266
01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:52,320
» and would be that they needed they
adjusted their site.

1267
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:54,560
» It's not like we're not trying to help
the program. Can't help you if you

1268
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:57,119
don't.
>> We told them what modifications would be

1269
01:41:56,080 --> 01:42:01,760
helpful for them.
>> Yeah, we told them what modifications

1270
01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:04,639
they need. They wanted to release
>> what they were doing

1271
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:10,400
» because they were obligated to do a lot
of stuff. They and they changed the site

1272
01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:18,480
the site considerably um and eliminated
things and readjusted things, parking,

1273
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:24,320
exterior improvements, things of that.
>> So, can we come up with a kind of like

1274
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:28,400
detailed list of things?
>> Yes. Once we know what they're

1275
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:32,159
proposing, but I can't tell you what you
can or can't do unless I know what

1276
01:42:30,239 --> 01:42:35,440
you're going to do and I can't design
for it. It's not mine.

1277
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:39,920
» No, I don't think you're saying what
would it require like

1278
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:45,600
» uh yeah something like that and just uh
as what we have discussed for example

1279
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:51,199
and we and we need some information from
architecture for like inner like design

1280
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:58,000
or something and also engineer for the
you know popping out or something like

1281
01:42:53,440 --> 01:43:02,480
water and some other things and we just
at least you know at this moment I think

1282
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:08,000
that the owners will probably minim want
to know

1283
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:13,760
uh ext you know and they really want to
know like what exactly stuff that they

1284
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:17,520
need to work on uh I think that they I
don't understand their frustration and

1285
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:23,576
with the whole process because they are
not expert in this kind of field even

1286
01:43:20,239 --> 01:43:26,480
probably they have I'm not saying that
[clears throat] I'm trying to kind of

1287
01:43:24,719 --> 01:43:32,080
like say there something maybe they have
a bad or something like not like you

1288
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:36,560
guys you know so Right. [laughter] So,
and what I'm saying that they just like

1289
01:43:34,639 --> 01:43:40,880
we know that they are trying to set up
and the coffee shop and the Danish shop

1290
01:43:38,719 --> 01:43:46,639
or something and come down. So what
exactly and the stuff that and they need

1291
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:53,040
to prepare and and what will be the kind
of like process a little bit detail and

1292
01:43:50,239 --> 01:43:59,440
uh we don't need to negatively and if we
can somehow like wave something and

1293
01:43:56,320 --> 01:44:04,960
that's and I think that and the council
is open to that and for example I

1294
01:44:02,159 --> 01:44:10,000
postpose some fee and if
uh uh if it's kind of too much we can

1295
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:15,440
you know lower that fee or something
like that and we can talk about this

1296
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:21,679
content but at least know we need to
give them something like you know they

1297
01:44:18,719 --> 01:44:26,400
they know that what they need to do next
because right now I'm not so sure and

1298
01:44:24,159 --> 01:44:30,159
what's going on with that they uh
communication I think that they and

1299
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:37,360
sometimes
uh I feel like they communication and

1300
01:44:33,119 --> 01:44:41,199
kind of like got lost uh and uh I I'm
I'm not so sure what is happening Well,

1301
01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:46,639
I everything that they gave me, I
responded to the issues that I saw so in

1302
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:50,719
writing. So, uh they do have that
information.

1303
01:44:48,719 --> 01:44:56,639
» Some the lawyers up communication with
the lawyer is not misp.

1304
01:44:53,520 --> 01:45:03,679
» Oh, okay. Yeah. The lawyers may be
sometimes they know. Um so you know that

1305
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:09,360
the the information that we have um we
have from past owners of the property

1306
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:13,600
isn't in in concert with what they're
providing either. So setbacks and

1307
01:45:11,679 --> 01:45:19,920
property lines and like that just
different. Um, and you know, they do

1308
01:45:17,679 --> 01:45:25,360
they do fix some of the things that we
call out, but other things are still the

1309
01:45:22,639 --> 01:45:32,560
same way
and fix would be more expense. Um, and

1310
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:38,639
so I I think that some of those items
because the expense would be more to

1311
01:45:34,239 --> 01:45:44,080
address them are just more. Um,
and again, you know, I mean, my

1312
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:47,600
interpretation of the code says they
have to do these things. His

1313
01:45:45,360 --> 01:45:52,719
interpretation of the code says the same
thing that I've been over countless

1314
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:59,199
times. The solicitor's um interpretation
of the code, same thing. So, you know, I

1315
01:45:55,440 --> 01:46:03,920
mean, they whoever's advising them isn't
giving them any meat to do it. But

1316
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:08,320
additionally, you know, if we feel that
this is too extensive for them, then

1317
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:12,159
maybe we need to deal with a change in
ordinance.

1318
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:16,560
And when you're talking about fees, I
mean, I guess we have a fee schedule. A

1319
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:22,239
developer does pay an escrow. It gets
drawn against. Nothing says the bureau

1320
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:25,840
needs to draw against the escrow.
It's council's will. That's not going to

1321
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:30,719
make Zach happy, not going to make, you
know, reach happy, but

1322
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:35,679
» we would be paying through the process
so that they're paying rent

1323
01:46:32,639 --> 01:46:38,320
» at least for the reimburseable portion,
you know.

1324
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:42,800
» Yeah.
These fees cover our cost,

1325
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:47,199
» you know, otherwise otherwise the
>> they don't want it.

1326
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:49,440
» Otherwise, the residents are paying the
costs.

1327
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:54,080
» Yeah. Yeah. These these are passives
typically not property on this,

1328
01:46:52,239 --> 01:46:59,199
» right? They're covering them.
>> Yeah. I mean just because next time when

1329
01:46:55,840 --> 01:47:03,840
you guys meet and the owners and
and you may need to have some

1330
01:47:01,119 --> 01:47:08,320
information, you know, and not like a
talking, you know, and we can have

1331
01:47:06,159 --> 01:47:13,679
something like ethnicity, you know, in
writing and or something like little bit

1332
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:18,000
like information and ethnicity, you
know, because I'm I'm not the expert in

1333
01:47:15,679 --> 01:47:22,800
this field. But right now I can
understand that at least there are three

1334
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:28,880
things that you know you have to ask
like you know expert to prepare like

1335
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:33,760
architect or engineer
or survey or something like that is

1336
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:42,639
something like and they we need to work
on so and give them like a kind of like

1337
01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:46,800
some thumbs up that they need to if they
decide okay to be honest if they decide

1338
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:53,440
oh yeah we're not going to do anything.
So that means this mean nothing that the

1339
01:47:49,440 --> 01:47:57,679
world can do. or not just one of can we
since sounds like we're meeting to

1340
01:47:55,920 --> 01:48:02,360
actually
we have it sounds like three services

1341
01:48:03,440 --> 01:48:12,560
what you need to get the information we
need to

1342
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:18,199
» okay I don't I mean I can't speak to our
spirit discussion there but I don't

1343
01:48:19,199 --> 01:48:25,760
discuss
Everything's

1344
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:31,679
in the subdivision land and subdivision
ordinance lays out.

1345
01:48:28,239 --> 01:48:36,320
» All right, I'll write something.
Yeah,

1346
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:41,760
» because I think that and sometimes you
know and we have ordinance but sometimes

1347
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:49,440
there are a lot of ordinance and with
that a lot of information you know and

1348
01:48:45,280 --> 01:48:57,040
sometimes people get confused especially
if they are not you know expert so what

1349
01:48:54,000 --> 01:49:04,080
we can do is just probably right now
some something like really important you

1350
01:49:00,719 --> 01:49:09,199
know and for them to move on if if like
those are kind of things that is very

1351
01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:13,440
less but if they decide yeah we're not
going to do that so that means and you

1352
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:17,840
know there's really nothing we can do
you know you know I mean just but if you

1353
01:49:15,679 --> 01:49:23,840
go very detail like for example and you
have to uh design the parking lot and

1354
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:27,920
just like whether you have and 18 and
the parking spot or like 16 and that's

1355
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:35,280
that's really some sometimes you know
it's a I know but And uh to be honest,

1356
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:41,040
you know, when I look at this one,
if I'm an owner, I get tired of looking

1357
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:46,560
at this things. And so, uh it's just so
many things and the people kind of like,

1358
01:49:44,239 --> 01:49:51,040
you know, they're like ah don't want to
do that. So, that's why I I mentioned

1359
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:56,239
that we give them some information. for
example, just that I like what is ide

1360
01:49:53,119 --> 01:50:01,679
like like three things like and we just
discuss a lot and uh to see what the

1361
01:49:59,119 --> 01:50:08,239
owners you know would like to do at
least know and if they if they say like

1362
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:14,960
okay we're not going to do that we don't
want to do at all and so that means

1363
01:50:12,239 --> 01:50:16,480
technically we're done with this and
they

1364
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:20,719
» you're asking them to do land
development is that what you're saying

1365
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:23,920
» yeah yeah yeah something
the interview are the third things.

1366
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:26,560
» Yeah.
>> You'll be to do

1367
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:31,119
» you're saying the things that land
development would require. uh yeah at

1368
01:50:28,719 --> 01:50:36,080
least you know something like you know
so something like that and just we have

1369
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:42,080
discussed and just mentioned because
that's okay and I think that the main

1370
01:50:39,679 --> 01:50:48,320
one of the main and the reason is the
cost because nobody want to spend like

1371
01:50:45,040 --> 01:50:55,119
six figure number of the uh money on
something you know and but if

1372
01:50:53,280 --> 01:51:00,320
if it's necessary and you know that
every business can come with a risk

1373
01:50:57,760 --> 01:51:06,880
So whether they know they would like to
take it or not and that's a good thing

1374
01:51:04,159 --> 01:51:12,880
because I still believe that they the
costly is the main reason because so

1375
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:21,440
that's why they talk about the large
company and they can spend like like

1376
01:51:16,480 --> 01:51:27,520
2020 or $500,000 on something they big
company you know doesn't care but for

1377
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:32,320
you know small business owner I know
they care about the cost and whether

1378
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:38,199
they would like to spend that amount of
money on this kind of thing that

1379
01:51:35,199 --> 01:51:38,199
problem.

1380
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:47,119
» Yeah, that's a
>> I think you so do that.

1381
01:51:44,080 --> 01:51:52,000
You want me to write the bolts by what
you ask

1382
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:58,119
some guidance on like hey survey
architecture plans like standardized

1383
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:58,119
like what are the expectations right

1384
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:05,440
» I mean that's what that's what we've
been doing I've been responding in

1385
01:52:03,040 --> 01:52:08,560
quoting from chapter verse my responses
>> okay is there is there an application on

1386
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:12,400
evidence
>> yes online the application

1387
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:22,080
email that you
do want to ask a general question. If

1388
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:28,400
Starbucks are coming to you that thing
would be discussion

1389
01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:32,719
» I wouldn't like Starbucks that's that's
if they were the buyers of that property

1390
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:38,040
of other variance wouldn't we be
discussing

1391
01:52:34,480 --> 01:52:38,040
discussing this?

1392
01:52:38,239 --> 01:52:44,800
» No, I don't think so.
Yeah.

1393
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:48,159
Just curious because I mean I see this
as a community benefit which is why I'm

1394
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:51,520
discussing it
>> but also these I think those two things

1395
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:57,040
are definitely not apple to apples.
These are community members who live in

1396
01:52:54,000 --> 01:53:02,639
Frankard and so I I sort of see it both
ways. When they're coming to council

1397
01:52:59,360 --> 01:53:09,280
asking for help would I entertain that
from a large corporation? No. But the

1398
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:14,960
flip side of that is they are residents
and we all represent them. And so this

1399
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:18,639
process has been frustrating to them. Um
and so

1400
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:20,480
do we want to try to help where we can?
Yes.

1401
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:25,159
» Okay.
And we are trying to address

1402
01:53:30,639 --> 01:53:36,639
» what happens when as your communities
grow and your bigger uh and your

1403
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:41,440
regulations to enforce the the large
companies kind of grow how we have done

1404
01:53:38,639 --> 01:53:44,719
here, right? Uh the the private
businesses, the small business centers

1405
01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:49,280
don't own their buildings anymore. The
developer builds the plaza and then the

1406
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:55,520
small businesses rent from them, right?
So, we're kind of at that plateau where

1407
01:53:52,719 --> 01:53:59,440
our code requires a high standard. Uh,
and so sometimes it's not feasible for

1408
01:53:57,280 --> 01:54:02,080
small business owners. Um, but there's
properties still be developed. Those

1409
01:54:01,119 --> 01:54:06,480
small businesses still have
opportunities. It's just not the

1410
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:09,880
property owners.
See this is

1411
01:54:11,199 --> 01:54:16,000
» you're saying and again I don't know if
this is central to the issue but you're

1412
01:54:14,480 --> 01:54:20,639
saying a big corporation could come buy
that and small local businesses right

1413
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:26,000
there that have their
>> you still have you know a small non-pop

1414
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:30,239
business uh just in a different fashion
uh and we still enforce our normal

1415
01:54:28,639 --> 01:54:35,520
ordinances as we
>> I can't imagine that's what most striker

1416
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:37,760
park residents would for whether we can
control capitalism, how it happens, you

1417
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:41,760
know,
>> and then that's where this board has the

1418
01:54:39,280 --> 01:54:48,080
the option to change your codes
>> to guide the community how you want it.

1419
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:52,239
» But based on what we have now, there's
three professionals said this is what we

1420
01:54:50,159 --> 01:54:56,320
believe is correct.
>> And I agree and I your point of view, I

1421
01:54:54,320 --> 01:55:01,440
think their frustration lies and that
answer was different before the

1422
01:54:58,960 --> 01:55:06,719
attorneys got involved. No, no. Yeah.
>> Insult to you, Max. Um, and now the

1423
01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:10,480
answer is something different. And so
they they feel like the goalpost keeps

1424
01:55:09,119 --> 01:55:16,400
moving. And I understand that
frustration. And I think now at least we

1425
01:55:13,119 --> 01:55:20,960
can communicate clearly to them to say
these are the goalposts. This is maybe

1426
01:55:19,280 --> 01:55:26,560
ways we're willing to work with you, but
we still need to like we did with the

1427
01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:31,679
Franklin in the goal is compliance one
way or the other.

1428
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:35,275
So
>> all right. Very good. [laughter]

1429
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:46,679
» Anything else?

1430
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:57,760
» Um,
that's everything I have on my list.

1431
01:55:54,000 --> 01:56:02,719
» Okay. All right. So, uh,
thank you so much. Thank you. Sorry. Um,

1432
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:04,880
take a session.
session.