[0:05] anything um I'm happy to do it all but
I'm okay just taking
[0:11] not I I hear you had a big push for
deliver it's been a long week yeah saage
[0:19] contract went on Wednesday too so was
like a last minute thing that happened
[0:24] this week and there supped about like
almost three weeks ago
[0:28] now
[7:28] I
[7:36] yeah it does tell you when you join that
Rec it's being recorded just so you
[7:40] know yeah all right
so
[7:52] share it's not giv me that as
[7:57] option not my chat no no
yeah that's not what I want to
[8:09] share
[8:25] comens all
right
[8:30] yeah I'm use the ladies room before we
get
[8:34] going so I can
[8:41] see so I'm like gonna be
here basically if I could go out that
[8:46] door I didn't
nothing that's on my wish
[8:53] L folks are welcome to come in um
there's a sign in sheet at the
[9:00] at the
[9:27] entry here
[9:35] the
[9:53] flood so
[9:58] there's
[19:56] okay 6 o00 Bo so I'd like to go ahead
and get things rolling um my name is
[20:02] Stephanie Burke I'm a planner here at
Rutland Regional Planning Commission and
[20:06] we're so happy to be able to host this
public meeting for the town of menden um
[20:12] tonight we'll be looking at the
alternatives for the US rout for
[20:17] corridor scoping study this is the
second public meeting that we're having
[20:21] for this project and so with that
introduction I'd like to just welcome
[20:26] everyone um get settled in and I'll turn
things over to the project engineer uh
[20:32] Jen Conley with
VHB hi everyone I'm going to briefly go
[20:36] over the agenda and then we're going to
do some
[20:39] introductions um I would say as we get
into the technical presentation my
[20:44] request would be that um if you have a
clarifying question you raise it while
[20:48] I'm presenting we're going to have
plenty of time for discussion afterwards
[20:51] and can go back to slides if you have a
comment or if you have a preference if
[20:55] you like something or you don't like
something but during the the during the
[20:59] presentation please do interrupt if you
have a clarifying question so that if
[21:03] everyone has kind of that same question
all of that information will get
[21:07] shared iure how the system to advance
the slides that's gonna be well Jen's
[21:13] looking at that I did want to REM
everybody who's joined virtually
[21:16] received a message when they logged into
the meeting but tonight's meeting is
[21:19] being recorded so just for full
disclosure okay so this is the agenda um
[21:27] obviously we're going to start the
welcome and we'll introduce the team in
[21:30] just a second we're going to go over
what the scope and schedule of the
[21:33] project is one of the things we
discovered right away at local concerns
[21:37] meeting is we do have a lot of concerns
in mendin but the scope of this grant is
[21:41] pretty specific so we have to um do
certain things as part of the grant
[21:45] we'll talk about the project purpose and
need and that was discussed at the local
[21:49] concerns meeting and we'll talk about
other local concerns takeway and then
[21:53] we're going to talk about some
overarching themes for the whole
[21:56] Corridor before we break into different
Alternatives in pieces along the
[22:01] corridor so you'll understand what that
means as we get into it and then we're
[22:04] going to have um some discussion about
Alternatives um evaluation and that's us
[22:09] having looked at these Alternatives and
we can talk to you about what those
[22:11] potential impacts will be and then we
will have a lot of time for public input
[22:16] that's why we're here is to hear how you
feel about these different Alternatives
[22:21] um one of the things they are numbered
one two and three throughout the quarter
[22:25] but that doesn't mean we don't walk out
of here with one in one segment two and
[22:28] another and three and another it's
really is um we'll talk about the pros
[22:32] and cons of each um alternative in each
segment as we
[22:38] go so oops
[22:46] oh okay so the project team as she in
Stephanie introduced me I'm Jen Conley
[22:51] I'm with VHB we are the consultant part
of the Consulting team uh with me online
[22:56] going to help me answer some questions
that come up with our folks who are
[23:00] remote is Elizabeth
sunberg yeah there she is um and with me
[23:05] here
is oh Rose O'Brien Rose O'Brien um and
[23:10] in addition we also have Joe vanor who
supported us putting together all of the
[23:14] um all the materials that you'll see
here today you have already met
[23:18] Stephanie from the Rutland Regional
Planning Commission and then we have a
[23:22] team who is helping to advise us and
bring us along through the process and
[23:27] so I would love maybe Fred if you could
I don't know if everyone's in the room
[23:30] or if some folks are online um I would
love it if everyone on the team would if
[23:36] you wouldn't mind introducing yourselves
so I'll start um I'm Sarah Tully and I'm
[23:40] the Town Administrator with the town of
venden lry uh Fred Bagley uh member of
[23:48] men on the move and a longtime men
resident Larry crell steering committee
[23:53] was on the select board for nine
years Lancaster I'm a resident with Lon
[24:00] on the move and missing this evening is
Seth bridge and he is our select board
[24:05] representative from menen that is on the
committee great and then our other
[24:10] partners in this the folks who gave us
the Grant and we appreciate them and
[24:13] they also will provide us input as we
move along um Ashley Andrews and Ross
[24:17] Gallen I don't know if anyone's Jo if
either of them have joined us but we
[24:21] have interacted with them and I'm going
to give you a little bit of um input
[24:25] that we've received from them recently
on what we're going to talk about
[24:30] today FR anyone else I believe there
were there were some oops just like to
[24:36] recognize the presence of Senator Brian
Colmore who nicely joined us um and our
[24:41] local representative Jim
Harrison thank you both for joining
[24:50] us so the project schedule this has been
schedule since um we kicked off back in
[24:55] May um we are at the Alternatives
presentation meeting now and um we are
[25:02] going to from here come out with a
preferred alternative hopefully we will
[25:06] be working with the steering committee
at that point um on the details of that
[25:12] and ultimately it's something that will
go to the select board and we'll put
[25:15] together then the final the final plan
um the final
[25:21] report so the project purpose and need
we'll start with that local concerns
[25:26] meeting recap so we presented a draft
project purpose and needs statement and
[25:30] some of the things that weren't included
in that were the aesthetic improvements
[25:35] and some um feedback about lowering the
speed limit due to safety concerns in
[25:39] the corridor um and during the course of
the meeting we really talked about the
[25:43] existing conditions what what we were
looking at out there what the um the
[25:48] traffic volumes were where the crashes
had occurred um as well as some natural
[25:52] resource mapping and then public input
with this was a local concern meeting so
[25:58] most of the meeting was spent hearing
from you folks what what what was the
[26:01] concerns and again speeding unsafe
pedestrian Crossings um access
[26:06] management big driveways that are
difficult to to walk across um delivery
[26:11] movements lack of Road markings or
protection for those vulnerable users
[26:16] and just various safety concerns which I
know have continued obviously to be a
[26:20] concern in the
[26:25] corridor so the project purpose the
purpose of the town of menden US Route
[26:31] four coridor scoping study is to
identify improvements to enhance safety
[26:35] for all users along and across US Route
4 Bor through the town of Menan while
[26:42] enhancing access and Aesthetics to the
Village district and the recreational
[26:47] resources so it isn't just in kind of
the village district there was some
[26:51] concern also with the number of
recreation resources that we have in the
[26:54] corridor and how can we make traveling
to them from them and belong them a
[26:59] little
[27:01] safer so the needs were um there's no B
pedestrian and bicycle accommodation the
[27:07] corridor lacks safe Crossings sidewalks
and bike Lanes um you know in the
[27:12] commercial destinations and recre
recreational resources really make it
[27:16] challenging uh if you want AC cross to
access those things vehicular traffic
[27:20] calming uh the speeds on this quter are
very high I'm sure that's not a surprise
[27:25] to any of you um and they've been noted
as such and the data that's collected by
[27:29] VR um access management and intersection
operations there are a number of
[27:34] locations as we look on the corridor
that have giant driveways and what that
[27:39] does is it leads to um uncontrolled
movements I'd say you don't know if
[27:43] you're walking across that driveway if
someone's going to pull out way over
[27:46] here or way over here what angle they're
going to be at whereas with a tighter
[27:50] access it's a more controlled situation
people have to do it more at a 90 degree
[27:54] angle which makes it a little slower and
a little safer
[27:58] um Transit improvements was were also
mentioned the corridor is served
[28:01] obviously by the bus and um stops lack
any kind of formal
[28:09] accommodation so the project area is
pretty clear it is the uh us rout four
[28:14] corridor from one end to the other and
mend end so it goes from Rutland town to
[28:18] Killington and includes that that entire
[28:24] Corridor so after we left the um the
local concerns meeting and we have this
[28:29] purpose and need I think a couple of
overarching themes came up when we
[28:33] started thinking about what what our
alternative should be here so I'm going
[28:37] to just talk about some of these
overarching themes to give you something
[28:40] to think about and we can get into
discussion as I said later once once we
[28:44] start evaluating alternative the the
thing with these themes is that it they
[28:49] are um they can be applied to any part
of the corridor and so that's why we're
[28:53] kind of bringing them up as a separate
thing straight away so one of those is
[28:58] access management there's already been
as I a few times you've already heard me
[29:02] say something about the the large
driveways what we're showing here um in
[29:07] this image in green is what could be
let's call it a grass Island to better
[29:13] control some of the access points this
is just taking a a spot at Allen pools
[29:19] in with the orchard across the street to
see can we tighten up some of those
[29:22] driveways of course you have to do it on
a caseby Case basis because some like
[29:27] Allen pools I can't tighten it up like I
could a residential driveway because we
[29:31] still need to allow for the move
extractor trailer to pull in and and do
[29:35] its thing on their site um whereas some
some other driveways it's more
[29:39] appropriate to go with a a narrower
opening but the theme Remains the Same
[29:45] that to have that much pavement makes
the driver feel while they're driving on
[29:50] us4 like they're on a bigger highway I
like to um the perfect example of this I
[29:56] find is Killington when you travel
through Killington because the pavement
[30:00] just keeps going up to those businesses
it feels as wi it is as wide as a
[30:04] highway that's why it feels as wide as
the highway and people really lay on the
[30:08] gas there um as soon as you start
defining that edge and making people
[30:13] feel a little tighter it does make
people drive a little slower so this
[30:18] this access management will improve the
safety for folks walking along us4 but
[30:22] it will also help to control those
speeds it makes the driver feel like
[30:26] they're in a place and have and they go
a little slower to have um something on
[30:30] both sides instead of just AAL
pavement is that a clear concept people
[30:36] know what're what we're talking about
[30:41] there the other thing is safe Crossings
and Transit stops so that came up and it
[30:47] is it is a a tougher challenge to um
accomplish on a quarter as varied as
[30:52] this at the far left end we have the um
the village District and there could be
[30:58] a different type of Crossing in a
village District maybe than there would
[31:02] be out on us4 and so what we tried to do
here was identify spots that seemed
[31:08] appropriate for potential Crossings and
um we we'll talk a little bit more about
[31:13] um how to accommodate Transit stops as
well but that's kind of an overarching
[31:17] theme that that we would like to try to
incorporate as we go through and build
[31:22] the
[31:25] Alternatives a longterm ter
consideration theme is how to treat the
[31:30] climbing Lanes one of the things that I
was really struck by was the concern
[31:36] about high speeds and as I said The
Wider the road is the more comfortable
[31:39] you feel driving it at a higher rate of
speed so we did an analysis of those
[31:44] climbing Lanes to make sure they are
warranted at all locations now I don't
[31:49] think anyone can deny that once you turn
that corner past Sugar and Spice that
[31:53] that is quite a hill and if you're stuck
behind a heavy truck you're going to go
[31:58] pretty slow and it's going to be
frustrating so there certainly are
[32:01] locations that based on the steepness
and the number of trucks that climbing
[32:04] lanes are very appropriate however our
evaluations showed that there might be
[32:09] some other stretches along this quarter
and those are shown in green where it
[32:13] doesn't meet the the warrant for
climbing Lan and so we did have a
[32:17] conversation with VR about this and of
course because this grant as I mentioned
[32:22] has some limitations this is really a
bicycle and pedestrian study Grant so
[32:27] elimination of a climbing Lane is
certainly beyond the scope of this study
[32:30] and not something that would be
evaluated until a real you know um a big
[32:35] construction job is done on the segment
of us4 but V Trend did say it isn't off
[32:41] the table in a longterm way and so
that's something that I think I thought
[32:47] was was at least a good potential for a
way to slow the traffic down one of the
[32:52] issues we know is the safety at the
other parts of the quarter not just in
[32:56] the in the village has been a problem
especially this summer and so anything
[33:01] we can do to cause the drivers to travel
a little slower and even if that means
[33:06] sometimes you might be stuck behind a
truck um I think it is an advantage
[33:10] towards slowing that traffic down so
again this isn't something that
[33:14] ultimately will be a buildable project
that comes out of this grant but it is
[33:18] something that we would put in if if the
the group if um the engagement says yes
[33:24] we're supportive of that that you could
put into a long-term recommendation for
[33:27] the
[33:31] agent so now I'm going to get into those
draft
[33:35] Alternatives so we divided the quarter
up to there little lag into three
[33:39] segments so the first segment is what we
called the you know the district segment
[33:44] that's from Townline Road to meal Lake
Drive and that is where we want that
[33:48] Village District feel um we want that to
be a little different than the more
[33:52] rural segment segment two is a short
segment but it's an important one
[33:57] because that's a transition between what
is the Village area and what is the more
[34:02] rural area and so we wanted to treat
that separately and have some
[34:06] conversation specifically about that
area and then the final segment is is
[34:10] how do we want to treat from there all
the way to the town
[34:18] line so I won't list them here because I
think it's more effective to actually
[34:22] see them so in segment one which is the
village the first alter alternative is
[34:27] really a low build I would call it it's
working with the existing pavement to
[34:33] better define space for bicyclists and
pedestrians and the way we can do that
[34:38] is instead of having 14 foot Lanes we
don't need 14 foot Lanes a more standard
[34:43] Lane width is about 11 to 12 feet we can
constrain the driver with the roadway
[34:49] striping with with the the striping to
create a little buffer space and then
[34:54] establishing space on the edge of the
road for bicyclist and
[34:58] pestering so this is a lower cost
alternative that just does a better job
[35:03] than what you have out there today by
making the lane widths narrower to slow
[35:07] the traffic creating a buffer which we
hope those cars don't drive into we
[35:12] we're telling them where we want them to
drive and we don't want them within two
[35:15] feet of our cyclist or our pedestrian
and then defining that space for
[35:19] bicyclists and
pedestrians so as I said this is more of
[35:22] a low build alternative is this looking
West this is right now we are looking
[35:29] West yes this is that ski shop here in
the far distance and J is there withd
[35:35] right now to accomplish that in both
east and west bound Lanes there is yes
[35:40] so as you'll see in the picture on the
left the existing is about a 14ot lane
[35:43] in each Direction and a six foot
shoulder so each side is about 20 feet
[35:48] wide so I suggest we reallocate it and
this is just at an example location it
[35:52] varies by the width varies a little by
location but at this location if we
[35:56] reallocate that 20t on each side to an
11t Lane a twoot buffer and a 7 foot
[36:02] shoulder that does a nicer job of
keeping the cars away from you while
[36:07] you're walking on that shoulder or while
you're riding your bike on that shoulder
[36:11] is that sorry does that at all increase
um the potential for headon
[36:18] collisions no 11 feet has has been VR is
going to 11 ft in most cases it is it's
[36:23] shown to be a safe um l
a you want the bicycle Riders on the
[36:30] opposite side of that line I would
assume right in the line correct I don't
[36:34] know if it work for you maybe if you put
some grooves in certain areas of that
[36:37] would help you out a little that that's
one of the thing that is allowed in the
[36:41] guidance that in those two feet you can
use you know rumbles of some sort do
[36:45] people's driveways but in certain open
areas it wouldn't be worse yeah the
[36:49] challenge if save someone's life driving
at night too you know y yeah definitely
[36:54] um one of the challenges you run into
with doing anything with grooves though
[36:57] is the noise they make so it it tends VR
tends to get into trouble when they in
[37:02] incorporate those near when they first
been which was really good move because
[37:05] doesn't make people go on the side of
the road I thought people
[37:07] had B
breaks hear that yeah but certainly is
[37:12] something that you know that buffer area
you could put that in just to remind
[37:16] people I mean it certainly I will tell
you when you drive in the snow which we
[37:19] all do um having those in the center
lines when C line I mean you know the
[37:24] road's covered in snow you don't know
where that double is it's a nice
[37:27] reminder plus a lot of tourists and
other people some truck drivers they
[37:30] just take the wrong lane and try to keep
the momentum B right there was another
[37:36] that my question too
okay okay so we're clear on this is like
[37:41] I said I i' call this a low build
because it's a little less expensive
[37:45] working with what we have so again in
segment one in the village district one
[37:49] of the things we looked at was putting
in a 5 foot sidewalk on one side of the
[37:53] street now with that one of the things
that patrian was concerned about is
[37:57] still maintaining the roadway width so
they want there to be um a six foot
[38:04] shoulder uh and in this case an 11 foot
lane 11 to 12 feet that they tend to
[38:08] like but um I think in the in the
village District we convinced them 11
[38:12] feet is appropriate um and so that does
come out to be five feet wider than what
[38:18] we currently have so I call your
attention to that now we'll get into the
[38:22] evaluation later that does have an
impact that five sidewalk then is
[38:28] outside of what is the existing paved
width so if you think of where the
[38:32] pavement ends starting at that point is
where your sidewalk would be so that
[38:38] does have an impact it is still within
the right of way it is still within
[38:41] vran's property but it will have a
perceived impact by the people who live
[38:46] along that stretch you'll you'll feel
like people walking on that sidewalk are
[38:50] closer to your house than you're used to
the traveling public
[38:54] being any questions on
not yes how much pedestrian traffic is
[39:00] there is more well so there isn't a lot
of pedestrian traffic now but I think a
[39:04] lot of that is because of how
inhospitable the environment is and we
[39:08] know we see people cross between sugar
and spice and the mini golf for example
[39:14] so there are some pedestrians we know
that the coffee shop obviously created a
[39:19] new destination and there is the hope I
know um the steering committee told us
[39:23] with some um potential changes to zoning
and more more businesses coming in they
[39:29] want to encourage this sort of
environment and create more of a a
[39:33] downtown now this is part of your grant
program that you're dealing with this
[39:37] right now yes so what ends up to is a
grant big enough to do that or should
[39:41] you be looking at a tiff well let's
let's talk about um the grant process
[39:45] the grant that we have currently is to
do the study and come out with
[39:48] recommended Alternatives that is a tool
the town then uses to apply for the next
[39:53] grant for construction so it is
something when we get to the end we'll
[39:57] talk a little bit about costs of things
and um you know you don't want this to
[40:02] be yes of course you could say yes we
want a shared use path on both sides of
[40:06] the road in fact we want separated C
great separated Crossings let's put
[40:10] bridges over for people to cross that's
great but that might not be a fundable
[40:14] project so I you know when we get to
that point we'll talk about um you know
[40:19] we want to create we want this to be a
plan that is buildable and implementable
[40:25] ultimately
which is again why it's important P
[40:29] trans and talk to them about these
things so this is another alternative
[40:34] for segment one what this does is it it
creates that eight foot chair PA use
[40:39] path instead of a five- foot sidewalk
it's now wide enough that someone can be
[40:44] riding their bike on it as well um so
that takes that bicycle traffic if you
[40:49] are a strong cyclist we know there's so
many out there who ride route four all
[40:53] the time which is great for them but not
all of us feel that comfortable on Route
[40:58] four and would much rather be on a path
on the side so similar to the sidewalk
[41:02] alternative obviously this does have an
impact this does widen things um and you
[41:07] know as such that does have an
imp but it does help that cyclist which
[41:13] you you know the the goal as I said the
purpose and need of this study was to
[41:18] attempt to better accommodate um BOS and
pedestrians
[41:25] both that extend outside the RightWay no
there's still plenty of RightWay
[41:31] yes so um in segment one as we talked
about climbing Lanes we have we I have
[41:37] two things to touch on here um the the
beginning of it from Town Line Road is
[41:42] warranted it is steep enough the truck
numbers are high enough it is
[41:46] appropriate to have a climbing Lane but
as we all know you feel like it closes
[41:49] and then it almost immediately opens
back up again and um one of the things
[41:54] that we could do here is close it sooner
which would provide in that Village
[41:58] District a um you know a lower traveling
speed because it would calm the traffic
[42:03] a little bit so this is certainly
something we we hope VR will consider as
[42:08] as projects move
[42:13] forward so one of the things I'm going
to mention here as I said one of our
[42:16] themes is strategic Crossings and when
we get into the conversation we can talk
[42:21] about like I said I have been here often
enough I've been to Bull Sugar and Spice
[42:26] and men and minii golf often enough and
I just drive through this corter I know
[42:30] that I have seen enough pedestrians
Crossing at that location it was also
[42:35] suggested to me another potential
Crossing location especially if there's
[42:38] a sidewalk or a shered 's path on one
side of the street would be down by the
[42:42] orchard in in Allen pools and so those
are two locations that folks have
[42:46] brought up to us in in public feedback
um we can talk about whether those are
[42:51] the right places if we were going to put
in crosswalks or if we should be
[42:54] thinking about other locations
[42:59] in in this location in a village
environment it would be a striped
[43:03] crosswalk like you're used to seeing
here in R and do you expect traffic to
[43:07] stop while people are walking through
that or how how you trying to figure
[43:10] that out yeah I mean that is the law we
know
[43:16] trying of course and so what we try to
do with this is we're trying to slow the
[43:21] traffic with our design and bringing the
paving the aspect to it yeah yeah
[43:27] slower it's then easier for you to see
that Gap it's easier for them to see you
[43:31] before they're on top of you you know it
does make a aest and Crossing is a more
[43:35] safe option do they those lights they
have where you can push a button and
[43:41] they flash that that is always an option
yeah to have that sort of a treatment um
[43:46] we can talk about just in general
lighting I know that's something I think
[43:49] Fred had brought up is you know whether
lighting was um you know is lighting
[43:54] appropriate isn't in the right places
and certainly where we expect
[43:57] pedestrians to across is a very
appropriate place to be careful with our
[44:00] lighting have you looked at um lighting
up that whole Road I have not looked at
[44:04] it but that is something that at the end
of this as we get into our discussion
[44:08] about Alternatives that's when we have
that conversation if we think that's
[44:11] something that's appropriate because
something like lighting and any
[44:14] aesthetic improvements can be added to
any um any of the
[44:21] Alternatives um and especially if we do
put in a sidewalk or a crosswalk um
[44:26] periodic lighting along it is a nice way
to bring drivers's attention to the fact
[44:30] there's an expectation of pedestrians
even if they're not there at the moment
[44:33] there's the expectation of them being
[44:38] there all right if there wasn't any
technical question on segment one I'm
[44:43] going to move into segment
two anything pop up on line yet Rose
[44:49] okay all right so again this is the what
I call the transition zone from Meadow
[44:55] Lake to Medway
there we um and so right now this is
[45:01] just a screenshot of a certain spot
that's 44 and a half fet wide um it one
[45:06] of the things I don't like about this
area is the 15.5 foot um Lane in the 6
[45:12] and 1/2 foot shoulder how many of us
have seen someone fade over to the right
[45:17] and someone they'll so they'll be
driving to a breast here that is what we
[45:21] don't want because that is everyone
jockeying to go faster and so that that
[45:26] is definitely a problem and an 11 foot
shoulder becomes a problem at times too
[45:30] because you can have someone think that
that is Lan as well so although it's
[45:34] great to have a generous shoulder to
make a a cyclist or a pedestrian feel
[45:38] safe they don't feel safe if a car comes
down because 11 feet is wide enough to
[45:42] be be a lane so this is again kind of
the lighter alternative because it still
[45:47] works with the width we have it
reallocates that width now um because
[45:52] again the width varies in this
transition zone significantly what I've
[45:56] put here is we could go with a 12T Lane
and we could have a minimum of a twoot
[46:00] buffer again to Define that space for
pedestrians in a Min minimum of a six
[46:04] foot shoulder the buffer space however
as the road widens the buffer and that
[46:11] shoulder space can get bigger what we
want to do is not necessarily have a tw-
[46:16] foot um buffer into really really wide
space I don't want someone to think it's
[46:20] a lane we want to balance we want it to
be clear this is too narrow to be a lane
[46:24] this is the buffer in the the bikes and
the the pets are are on the other side
[46:28] of that and one of the things I would
like to do in this segment if we can is
[46:33] make the line striping match what we
want that until they're out of this
[46:38] transition zone it doesn't widen so that
folks can use it in two lanes as they're
[46:44] getting their speed on and going up the
hill we want to keep it in a single Lane
[46:47] and keep the speeds low in this
transition zone you ever cross an area
[46:52] because I've seen a lot of people use
the shoulder think it's a lane it's
[46:57] pretty SC most most definitely um yes so
there is there there's uh you'll see
[47:02] some markings actually in the next um
the next concept um that Define that and
[47:07] one of the things you do especially if
you're trying to transition from what
[47:10] will be a high speed as you're come down
the hill into the village District which
[47:14] we're hoping we're really going to lower
that speed um you paint those lines so
[47:18] they get closer so that you feel like
you're accelerating even if you're
[47:22] keeping your same speed and it if that
is another effective tool to to work
[47:26] with the drivers joh if you put lines on
the opening there because they w't stick
[47:30] in the lane but if you just put some
yellow lines through it it would
[47:34] probably stop people from doing that
yeah even the double line is very
[47:38] effective because it you know if there's
a single line it could be just a lan
[47:42] line once it's two it it does cue folks
that it's something
[47:47] different so one of the things we also
talked about is in this transition zone
[47:52] should we do something like striping
with delineated marking there should we
[47:56] do something with either banners or
signage or something so this is the same
[48:02] Geographic um not Geographic excuse me
this is the same like Lane configuration
[48:06] as I showed before but it's just should
we do other things to make people
[48:11] realize they're arriving at a place
because that does tend to make people
[48:15] slow down and I'm going to give some
other example those were just a few
[48:18] examples so these are other Gateway
treatment examples that people use
[48:22] whether it's fencing whether it is a
line of planted treat that makes you
[48:27] feel like you're in a place whether it's
banners whether it's lighting um there's
[48:31] a number of options there and you know
we can talk about that when we get to
[48:36] discussion but that's alternative to is
really about we can do whatever we want
[48:41] with the striping but how else can we
communicate to the driver they've
[48:44] arrived somewhere because this section I
don't think is appropriate for
[48:49] pedestrian treatment it's very steep
it's you know drops off it it it doesn't
[48:54] call out for that sort of arrival we
want them to realize they're arriving at
[48:58] a place in a different way and so we're
going to try to think of what cues we
[49:02] could do so that's our second
[49:08] alternative and then our third
alternative is again looking at what we
[49:13] can do with widths and how we could if
we did tighten it up as I showed you
[49:18] before we had on that one a minimum of
two feet in the buffer up to four feet
[49:23] shoulder was a minimum of I think six
feet and it could be if we kept the F
[49:28] narrow here in this example for you can
see the the red shading is two and a
[49:34] half feet of the road goes away
basically should we make the road
[49:37] physically narrower is there an
opportunity in this transition zone to
[49:42] really make the driver feel like they're
they're being tightened and they need to
[49:46] go slower to communicate to them and so
in this situation it's not just striping
[49:51] the edge to edge it's should we actually
narrow that a little so they feel a
[49:55] little more constrained as they're
coming into this
[50:03] Z any questions on segment two we had a
question online about segment one it was
[50:09] asked if the shared use path or sidewalk
would be from metalik drive to Townline
[50:14] Road and what would happen to the
cyclists and pedestrians once that ended
[50:18] if that alternative was chosen so that
can be determined today we laid it out
[50:24] as if it would be that higher length to
answer that question and um in
[50:29] situations where you have a shared use
path that isn't leading to something
[50:32] else you do typically sign that and you
think about where the folks are going to
[50:36] want to go at the end so do you put a
turnaround at the end or do you assume
[50:41] that they may head down metal Lake Road
or you know what what is it that they
[50:44] want to do at that point and think about
where where else they can go whether
[50:48] it's just for recreation and they'll you
turn and go back or whether um but
[50:53] either way we we would sign if that the
path would
[50:59] um just for discussion um we also
thought that it was a safe access to get
[51:06] off of um route four and go down Park
Lane into Post Road in Rutland town and
[51:11] be able to access their Recreation H
area and then they're doing a sidewalk
[51:16] project off of Post Road so I think
we're not the only Town looking at this
[51:21] Killington is underway with a study
similar to this on
[51:26] um on rout four as well so I would
expect that Rutland toown may be
[51:31] interested in doing something similar as
well before you get down into Rin
[51:37] City can you go back one slide to the
one where you reduce the total width by
[51:42] two feet is are there guard rails and
stuff and that's that would yes and so
[51:47] in this in this case we wouldn't suggest
to eliminate the guard rails but I mean
[51:52] if you if you were to to you have to
move the guard in is that is that you
[51:57] don't because the guard rails are still
protecting from the hazard the hazard is
[52:00] the Steep Bank yeah so in that case the
guard rails can stay where they are um
[52:05] it's just a matter of if it is gravel
for those last two feet even if you were
[52:09] to go astray you would you know the idea
is you still feel like you are are
[52:15] narrowed you're so there's no federal
requirement that the guardrails have to
[52:19] be at the edge of the pavement there can
be a twoof foot buffer or something
[52:22] there certainly can yes I mean in a lot
of cases guard gril or even on the other
[52:26] side of you know pedestrian facility I
[52:37] mean all right getting into segment
three so to start out with segment Three
[52:42] As We Know looks a lot like this most of
the time um and so this is that same
[52:47] kind of low build that we talked about
this is reallocating that existing
[52:52] pavement to make the leans slightly
narrower so that we're able to get that
[52:56] buffer and to get that six foot shoulder
um and depending on the area in some
[53:02] some places I can tell you again much
like segment two that buffer in that
[53:07] shoulder could be pretty sizable because
the the roadway width is very
[53:11] significant but this does a better job
of not creating what feels like a lane
[53:17] for example you know the S feet and
existing you have a 12ft lane a 12 and
[53:21] a2t lane and then a 7ot shoulder that
does feel like those are Highway itions
[53:25] you feel like you can drive it like
you're on I 89 and so if we are to
[53:29] narrow the lanes and put in that that
narrow buffer to to just provide that um
[53:36] that space between the the cyclists and
the pedestrians and the traveling public
[53:40] that's again that low build
[53:45] alternative okay alternative two is hard
to see but it is an 8ft shered juice
[53:51] path on the North side now one of the
things that we'll get into there's a
[53:56] there's a bunch of evaluation that we
talk about impacts as you might imagine
[54:00] there are some impacts we can easily
accommodate an 8 foot shared juuse path
[54:06] within the right of way the right of way
here is incred was it 30 feet outside of
[54:10] the pavement width on each side yeah
like 25 to 35 yeah so there's 25 to 30
[54:15] feet of Right of Way Beyond what is
currently paved so we are able to
[54:20] accommodate this what we would suggest
is a shared use path that would not be
[54:25] located right next to the road obviously
it's safer if it's a little separated
[54:29] and it'll be a nicer path to travel if
it's a little separated however you'll
[54:34] see and I think it might be my next
slide um there are some constraints we'd
[54:38] have to think about when we think about
a shared use path though we were
[54:42] thinking about what we had talked about
here and what our purpose and need said
[54:46] in the locations where it may be
appropriate for a shared use path would
[54:50] be between the New Forest Service
headquarters where we expect there to be
[54:55] a hub of activity and people that are
going
[55:00] hiking excuse me we know also that
obviously at the other end of the
[55:05] corridor there is um the Appalachian
Trail The Long Trail the Catamount Trail
[55:11] and soon we're going to have the
bellamont trail passing through this
[55:21] area
um so looking at what an8
[55:31] foot if you at the local concerns
meeting you've seen this graphic and
[55:38] this calls out some of those things I
just mentioned the the forest Service
[55:41] headquarters is located down here the
Vista senior living and the um
[55:47] Killington Resort housing in the middle
and then further up is where the
[55:51] appalation trail and the Long Trail
Crossing
[55:54] is this is the resource mapping that I
shared although it's hard to see the key
[56:01] you can tell that there are a number of
wetlands in the bright green there are a
[56:05] number of river Brook Etc Crossings
there are there are certainly some
[56:10] hazards now um talking to permitting
experts is still something that is
[56:16] permittable it is possible it will have
some impacts to Wetlands but those
[56:21] impacts will be linear and will be on an
existing transportation
[56:25] quor so it is they are likely to be
approved and in addition we have the
[56:31] flexibility although we would like a
larger buffer if we did put in a shared
[56:35] use path we have the ability to move it
closer to the road the road Edge in a
[56:40] lot of places has almost a 10- foot
shoulder and then a 10- foot like graval
[56:44] area that's pretty much graded so we
could get pretty close to the edge of
[56:48] Road and have very little impact to um
to Wetlands as a result so
[56:56] um excuse me I'm so
sorry ultimately a p a path like this
[57:02] we're showing it for about two and a
half miles um does have obviously a cost
[57:07] associated with it and we'll get into
some of that in the
[57:15] evaluation we also thought about a
shared use path on the cell set I I'm so
[57:20] sorry have a tickle in my throat
now
[57:28] we didn't have another question online
just about segment two and if there
[57:33] could be an option for creating a
separated path near the river um so
[57:38] bikes and PS aren't up on that section
of Route
[57:41] four um that is probably an option but
we have to look at um there are
[57:48] certainly of a part as we know where the
river is within the right of way and so
[57:53] that may be possible the exact alignment
would have to be worked out as it were
[57:57] to move along if that is the preferred
alternative we' do a little bit of
[58:01] looking at what that potential alignment
could look like um and that is
[58:05] appropriate but obviously Where the
River crosses outside of the the right
[58:09] of way it becomes a little bit more
difficult because that land is not under
[58:12] um VR
[58:15] control um so this this contemplated the
sheries path on the South Side uh
[58:21] similar issu similar resource you know
constraints but the RightWay is generous
[58:28] and it certainly is a potential
alternative how do you get over the
[58:32] cobbert there's some huge certs going up
on that
[58:36] road well I would liken it to the
existing um you know the way the Long
[58:41] Trail is handled you can do a really low
profile Bridge or
[58:46] something you know or or put in a
smaller Culvert or you know an
[58:51] appropriately sized Culvert depending on
where exactly it's going to be but it is
[58:55] certainly a challenge and in some cases
especially when the menion brook is Big
[58:59] it may have to come up by the road by
the road for a bit some of the C on my
[59:03] store is probably you know bigger than
the ceiling and one of the things we'
[59:07] have to look at too is you know what is
the the life cycle where are those culit
[59:12] in their life cycle and is it
appropriate is there a Time coming where
[59:15] they're going to be replaced anyway
could they be sized to accommodate well
[59:18] you go I don't know how you do it I'll
just no no no it's definitely it's
[59:23] certainly a consideration
any other questions could you just um
[59:28] review on on each of the three
Alternatives um what if it's going to be
[59:34] on one side or the other side what about
the cyclists who are going in the
[59:38] opposite direction yeah so in any of
these Alternatives we would still have
[59:43] much like um we wouldn't be changing the
roadway
[59:49] configuration so we would probably still
propose something like this for the
[59:54] roadway configuration to define space on
Route four because you are always going
[59:59] to have a cyclist who prefers to be on
the road and not be on a path with as
[1:00:03] lot pedestrian pedestrians walking you
will have that cyclist who wants to get
[1:00:08] speed and and act almost more like a car
and I was I was thinking of cyclists who
[1:00:13] are using the pavement on one side of
the road yet don't want to cross all the
[1:00:19] traffic just to get on uh the selected
path on the other side entirely possible
[1:00:25] and um and in this case we're still
trying to Define that space with
[1:00:29] buffers on the road thank you they vary
the whist pretty wildly on that road
[1:00:34] though don't they they do yeah they
really do yeah yeah and so that's
[1:00:38] something obviously I think that I think
well I think it's obvious but we'll see
[1:00:42] if you all agree um that you know moving
forward in a long-term situation that we
[1:00:46] would really want them to be a little
more careful about what th what those
[1:00:49] Lane widths would be and again to manage
the shoulder if the shoulder is going to
[1:00:53] stay as wide as it is let's make sure
it's defined with a buffer to to provide
[1:00:58] that extra space because if you are
within three feet of a tractor trailer
[1:01:01] going by you you don't feel so good you
know so you really wanted to find that
[1:01:06] buffer
[1:01:11] space any other
[1:01:15] questions all right then we get
[1:01:22] into so one of the other things we
talked about were bus stops now bus
[1:01:26] stops are a little bit more complicated
because again this segment is a real
[1:01:31] rural segment um and it isn't there
isn't one a location or an appropriate
[1:01:39] place to put a bus shelter that's going
to be outside of vr's clear Zone that
[1:01:43] they like to maintain so one of the
things that we were thinking about and
[1:01:47] there is one in the study area but it is
not as good so the farle picture is you
[1:01:52] know a pull off that's in the the study
area is right near Willer road that
[1:01:56] pulloff however is very long and you can
at a high rate of speed pull into that
[1:02:01] pull off that is not what we're
proposing here what we would be talking
[1:02:05] about is one of the other two on the
right which are two others that are
[1:02:08] located on Route four that I was
familiar with they are very tight if
[1:02:11] you're in a car and you want to pull
into that pull off you have to be going
[1:02:14] about 10 miles an hour to pull into it
it's very short it comes up on you in
[1:02:20] um the the way it is designed does not
allow for a car to enter it at a high
[1:02:27] rate of Speed without them hitting the
guardrail and so what we would propose
[1:02:31] and VR would be amendable to is
especially at all Turnpike Road which is
[1:02:36] really the location that has someone
waiting for the bus the most often that
[1:02:40] I have seen it and we've gotten the
information from the bus and it's
[1:02:43] confirmed that's really the stop other
stops have a person occasionally but
[1:02:47] this is the location that very
consistently has um Transit folks
[1:02:51] waiting for transit or getting dropped
off um I would propose something on the
[1:02:56] far side from Old Turnpike that um just
provides a little bit of space there for
[1:03:01] for the driver for the um person waiting
for Transit but that but also does it in
[1:03:06] a way that the transit allow it but that
it is not appropriate for someone to
[1:03:11] enter at a high rate of speed that the
driver would not be tempted to use it in
[1:03:16] some way so that it is a safe space for
a pedestrian to
[1:03:23] stand
and did you look at turnarounds at all
[1:03:27] in that road because that's a big
problem too we did not I mean it's a
[1:03:31] little bit beyond the scope of you know
there no I mean I have people do it in
[1:03:36] my driveway all time which I don't
really care it's not a big deal um but
[1:03:39] it seems to be a problem with people you
know get or something like that and they
[1:03:43] have to turn around which would maybe we
can slow them down so they don't miss
[1:03:47] their turn
y so one of the things we talked about
[1:03:52] is in this segment if I were to put in
strategic Crossings where would I put
[1:03:56] them and how would I do
that
[1:04:00] so and again we can get into a debate
later but the locations I identified is
[1:04:05] obviously that existing Appalachian
Trail Long Trail Crossing we know all
[1:04:09] summer there's people crossing there um
another location is a is at mend
[1:04:13] Mountain View with the um discussions
that VRA may be converted as well to um
[1:04:19] Resort housing if that ends up happening
and there's cross traffic there's a
[1:04:25] carless population at both locations who
work together up on the mountain there
[1:04:29] may be cross you know pedestrians
Crossing there and there may be some
[1:04:34] folks associated with the forest head um
headquarters that are catching the bus
[1:04:40] or you know whether it's they work there
or they went there when they're hiking
[1:04:44] some of the trail or something that may
become a destination the road across
[1:04:48] from it too yes Y road across the street
from it um so those were a couple of
[1:04:54] locations I identified we certainly can
talk about those a little bit more as as
[1:04:58] we um as we move along and we can talk
about what those impacts would
[1:05:04] be and again as I said that long-term
consideration something that um brr
[1:05:09] could keep in the back of their minds
for when they reconstruct this room
[1:05:13] you'll see in segment three there is a
an area
[1:05:17] that's now although for that stretch
things are pretty flat and that could be
[1:05:22] a candidate for elimination the climbing
Lane it is only a half a mile long it is
[1:05:28] or it's less than half a mile I believe
it is not long enough to transition that
[1:05:33] climbing Lane in and really have any
distance to travel before you have to
[1:05:37] transition it back out again so we do
not suggest that it be eliminated in
[1:05:41] that segment however there is what I
believe is about two and a half miles or
[1:05:45] something to that effect of additional
climbing Lane that makes sense if we can
[1:05:51] eliminate it to be able to eliminate it
and that would in that far section of
[1:05:55] the corridor might help us to be able to
narrow the road and slow the traffic
[1:06:00] down and although there still would be
climbing Lane through a big chunk of
[1:06:04] mendan if it's slower and calmed at one
end and slower and calmed at the other
[1:06:09] end that just that changes kind of the
way the driver is approaching driving
[1:06:13] through the
sper again this is a longer term
[1:06:17] consideration and this is something
beyond the scope of this project but is
[1:06:21] something that came to mind to me when
we were really concerned about speeds
[1:06:25] and how do we change the character of
the now I'm going to Bor you to death
[1:06:31] with a million CS here the evaluation
Matrix so some this first one is
[1:06:36] particularly important which is thinking
about cost safety and Community
[1:06:40] character in segment one and so as you
can see in general all of our
[1:06:46] Alternatives bring us some improvement
defining the space better or providing a
[1:06:51] separate facility is going to make
bicycles to The Pedestrian feel a little
[1:06:54] safer it can in some cases improve the
aesthetic it does satisfy the purpose
[1:06:59] and need of this study every alternative
gives us some positive the uh cost
[1:07:05] associated with alternative one which is
working with the just changing pavement
[1:07:09] markings obviously is less than an
alternative that provides a sidewalk or
[1:07:14] a share
[1:07:18] DP any
questions so far we can back if you're
[1:07:23] doing the first that's cheaper yes you
develop that into a do you understand
[1:07:29] what I'm saying yes you know so was you
know you laying out x amount of dolls
[1:07:33] and if it seems to be working you can
push it into the other area certainly
[1:07:36] that is something that ultimately we can
talk about is how to phase improvements
[1:07:40] as well if there's something that you
like here but that you think you know if
[1:07:45] we want to be competitive to get another
Grant maybe we go for this and we see it
[1:07:48] do pedestrian start using the quter and
if so we go for that we can talk about
[1:07:52] some of that as well
[1:07:55] all right in segment two which is our
transition zone alternative one again
[1:08:00] was working with the current width and
making some changes alternative to is
[1:08:04] considering some plac making um and
again that could be a wide variety of
[1:08:09] things depending on what you all are
interested in we thought um banners or
[1:08:14] you know something to Define your
arriving at the town or and then um you
[1:08:20] know the delineated markings and again
providing the buffering for the
[1:08:30] shoulders any questions on
[1:08:38] that okay and then the third one is the
rural segment now again alternative one
[1:08:45] does start to improve things for cyclist
and pedestrians by defining space the
[1:08:51] other Alternatives in a bigger way meet
the purpose in need because obviously if
[1:08:55] you have allow those cyclists and
pedestrians to be in a separate facility
[1:08:59] it's safer for
[1:09:06] them then we start talking about those
anticipated um impacts as I have laid
[1:09:12] out to you the right of we this Corridor
is very generous so we don't anticipate
[1:09:16] our Alternatives having an impact on the
right of way we don't anticipate much of
[1:09:21] an impact to utilities there could be
some depending on where we're going to
[1:09:26] try to avoid the wet lens which is also
identified as a potential impact
[1:09:30] depending on the alignment there are
some utilities there that um you know
[1:09:33] there's some overhead wires that um we
need to work around those pools Etc any
[1:09:38] impact as I said would likely be on the
Lower Side um but those those impacts
[1:09:44] there is a potential for that because
unlike working in the roadway footprint
[1:09:48] we are going further
[1:09:52] out
in segment two we really are not
[1:09:56] proposing to make the road further out
the road is plenty wide and our
[1:10:00] Alternatives who have presented here
today are trying to make it feel
[1:10:03] narrower and trying to Define it so the
impacts really are are nothing in this
[1:10:09] in this area with the exception of the
cost that we've already
[1:10:13] talked and then in segment three there
are um you know a little bit more
[1:10:19] there's some agricultural lands that
need to be considered there's Wetlands
[1:10:22] that need to be considered for potential
impacts we do have plenty of right of
[1:10:26] way that is not an issue um but there
are going to be new impervious surfaces
[1:10:31] so that is something that um is just
something we need to keep track of and
[1:10:36] you know we can talk a little bit about
that you know as far as as we do
[1:10:48] permitting okay then there's the
anticipated permitting now most things
[1:10:51] are not anticipated in segment one
because we are working in an area that
[1:10:57] does not have much in the way of
environmental or um resource constraints
[1:11:02] as the rest of the corridor did and in
many cases we're keeping our footprint
[1:11:06] pretty close to what it is we're just
going slightly outside so the um
[1:11:10] permitting is not anticipated to be
significant in segment
[1:11:21] one um as we get into segment two as
well we're staying in our same footprint
[1:11:26] we're not expecting issues with
permitting permitting that should be
[1:11:30] pretty
straightforward segment three however
[1:11:34] though when we're talking about a
separate shared use path alternative two
[1:11:37] and three end up having some more per
permitting
[1:11:41] implications um and there are certainly
some things we need to be thinking about
[1:11:46] if we go forward with those again
talking with a permanent specialist
[1:11:51] about those there was nothing here that
was a big alarm as I said like through
[1:11:55] the Engineering Process given the amount
of right of way available chances are
[1:12:00] that permits could be um you know sought
and obtained um but again it's just
[1:12:05] something else to be considering as we
move forward and if you're increasing in
[1:12:11] perious area wouldn't you be subject to
storm water permit yeah Didn't I
[1:12:15] operational not the construction oh was
the wrong one oh yes I the wrong one was
[1:12:22] highlighted sorry about that
[1:12:30] yeah okay now we will have some public
input as I um outlined Elizabeth is
[1:12:37] online and um Rose is is monitoring that
as well if there is input that um folks
[1:12:45] online want to give would' love to hear
from you as well but we'd love to hear
[1:12:48] from everyone in the room what what
we're thinking about what sounds what
[1:12:52] sounds good what sounds bad what are we
reacting to this is where we try to get
[1:12:56] that feedback on Alternatives so that we
can understand what direction to head in
[1:13:01] for a preferred alternative to move
forward yes so I'm a fairly new um
[1:13:09] resident to Menan I've only been here a
few years um and I absolutely love it
[1:13:14] but um where I lived previously I had
the joy of sitting on several meetings
[1:13:19] like this my question to start before I
go through my is where does Menan see
[1:13:25] ourselves as a town 25 to 30 years from
now because in my opinion that should
[1:13:31] be the guide star
for does you know a pedestrian space
[1:13:39] along the side of the road Mixon or are
we trying to recruit people to come and
[1:13:44] visit the town are we trying to recruit
businesses we trying to create a walking
[1:13:49] space and connect the rural area to the
more populated Village area so that we
[1:13:56] create more of a destination I don't
know if anyone from the town can speak
[1:14:01] to that well I have a reference that you
should look at and it's called Men the
[1:14:05] movie if you haven't seen it yet it it
is um quite a process I wasn't a part of
[1:14:11] it but it's very impressive um they form
subcommittees they really dealt into
[1:14:16] topics just like you're asking about as
to where where they saw each other and I
[1:14:20] don't know yeah I'll just briefly
discuss the men on the WF project um uh
[1:14:26] we out of that came two priorities that
the town set for ourselves and um one
[1:14:33] was boosting outdoor recreation so we
are keeping our eyes open on how to
[1:14:38] increase opportunities to boost outdoor
recreation in mendum um and we we think
[1:14:43] that some of these Alternatives will
help facilitate that and then the second
[1:14:47] one was the um reinvention of Route four
um and safety the reinvention and safety
[1:14:56] of Route four I think is the um the
terminology and so um those of us that
[1:15:02] have been here a long time have seen the
decline of businesses along Route 4 um
[1:15:08] that has impacted the grand list and
increased property taxes for residents
[1:15:16] um the Vista View reinvention of that
building from a Hospitality business to
[1:15:22] a the Vista Senior Living is is an
example of thinking outside the box and
[1:15:28] where is mendan going um we do have a
town plan that does get updated and we
[1:15:35] have the zoning that um is slighted to
be
[1:15:40] updated um they're going to apply for a
municipal planning Grant this year in
[1:15:44] order to update our zoning regulations
so um really looking at what's in those
[1:15:49] regulations to broaden the ability for
um development or reinvention of Route
[1:15:57] four is what you know those will be
looked at as well with the Planning
[1:16:01] Commission so and going back one step
further for those who weren't involved
[1:16:06] the town applied for a grant to Vermont
Council on Rural Development to decide
[1:16:12] what could we do with our downtown
section and we were denied because we
[1:16:18] didn't have a downtown and in
everybody's definition of what we were
[1:16:23] we were a highway town we were a pass
through town or a missed Town depending
[1:16:28] on who was describing us so the ront
counil on Rural Development said you're
[1:16:33] not a town you don't qualify to decide
what to do with your town but about six
[1:16:38] months later they came back to us on
their initiative and said you know we
[1:16:42] thought that a little bit more there's
lots of towns in our state that don't
[1:16:47] have downtowns and we need to help those
towns who just are Highway towns F town
[1:16:53] pass through town so they came back to
us worked over the course of the year to
[1:16:58] develop The Mending on the move and all
those projects came out of it so Co
[1:17:03] whacked us a little bit no doubt about
it but um you know those the document
[1:17:08] that thinking has all it's all there
this is then we that Vermont Council rur
[1:17:16] development initiative we were going
apply for the grant to got these folks
[1:17:19] to come here and look at what we can do
at least on the rout for
[1:17:26] while thank you um so phenominal work
that's been put in and I hate that I
[1:17:33] missed the first meeting on this um but
I was out of the country uh so the a
[1:17:39] couple of questions that I would have
would be if we're looking at the first
[1:17:44] section and the third section
potentially having a shared use pathway
[1:17:49] even though section two is a little
steeper would it not make sense for that
[1:17:53] to be a continuous pathway promoting
cycling from town all the way up um you
[1:18:02] know and being able to connect maybe all
the way up to the Irish pub and back and
[1:18:06] there is your destination trip I'm going
to ride my bike up to the Irish Pub come
[1:18:10] back and get ice cream you know at at
mini golf um the the next one would be
[1:18:20] um from an impervious servfaces
standpoint could that multi-use trail be
[1:18:27] more of a carriage Trail P gravel type
setting and then we're getting away from
[1:18:32] having to deal with the impervious uh
surfaces permitting and reducing the
[1:18:36] cost because Paving just needs to be
regraded in the
[1:18:39] spring
um another mostly from a safety
[1:18:44] standpoint because I really wanted to
make sure this got brought up um as
[1:18:49] we're looking at this stretch you know
what could be done at the corner of
[1:18:55] Journey's End and four um
particularly
[1:19:00] the northwest corner um so if you were
coming out of Journey's End Road and
[1:19:08] turning right onto four that corner um
the visibility is
[1:19:16] dangerous uh and I know that that road
has changed involved over the years
[1:19:20] there are now a lot of young drivers on
that road and there are children so
[1:19:24] there will be a continuous flow of young
drivers on that road um can we take it
[1:19:30] back to do to look at cutting the trees
on that northwest corner and maybe
[1:19:35] shaving down the hillside a little bit
especially now that it's mowed on the
[1:19:39] northeast corner um you can see a whole
lot better uh and if we had greater
[1:19:44] visibility there then we're reducing the
likelihood of accidents um so that's
[1:19:51] that's my safety thing to throw out yeah
well and I'm happy to address that your
[1:19:56] comments on a continuous path or
whatever that's what this discussion is
[1:20:01] about um you know is that something so
so I'll leave that to everyone to
[1:20:05] discuss but safety is outside the safety
for drivers is outside of the scope of
[1:20:11] what I'm doing here today however that
it also impacts safety but I would
[1:20:16] advise you and your elected officials
that there is power in contacting transs
[1:20:23] and requesting them to look at sight
lines safety is a big thing the history
[1:20:28] this summer has been really bad here in
Menon this is a bad Corridor so I would
[1:20:33] say don't don't think just because
that's beyond the scope of what I'm
[1:20:37] doing here that there isn't something
else that could be done to evaluate
[1:20:41] sight lines because that is a very
specific you know you're not asking them
[1:20:45] to rebuild the whole Road you're asking
them to maybe do a little grading trim
[1:20:48] back of vegetation Etc um that is
certainly something that should be
[1:20:53] considered given what what has happened
this summer with the the number of
[1:20:57] crashes in just the historic crash rate
here yes just a couple quick thoughts
[1:21:05] um you're going to do the bike path all
along um in the road width changing
[1:21:13] travel L doesn't that have to be done
also in conjunction with Killington and
[1:21:19] R
to and I guess I'd be afraid coming to
[1:21:23] rton town I don't know what the width is
but let's just say it's the 14 ft or 15
[1:21:27] ft and all of a sudden it goes to 11 ft
um in the same way on the Kellington and
[1:21:34] um and also on the M you know which is
in the you know is now the
[1:21:41] breakdown um seems to me some
continuation you know through that
[1:21:47] Corridor um people don't know where the
to lines are true it's not that in
[1:21:53] regards to the safety question if we're
going to make changes to the road that
[1:21:58] is the time you know there needs to be a
turning lanane or I mean and I guess
[1:22:04] none of us know where the traffic would
be in and out of the new um Federal
[1:22:08] Building um in Germany's end has been a
issue for a while sure without a doubt
[1:22:17] um as far as the question about as you
change jurisdictions you are right it
[1:22:21] can be you know it the the cyclist
especially if all of a sudden the
[1:22:26] shoulder just becomes a shoulder and
they don't have that protection anymore
[1:22:29] that is jarring but as was pointed out
hillington is looking at their own trail
[1:22:35] connection study and they're looking at
in there and again downtown because
[1:22:39] they're in a similar situation they
don't have much of a presence they're
[1:22:43] trying to build that by moving their
town office and doing some of the same
[1:22:47] things we're talking about here defining
edges a little better access control um
[1:22:51] so there's a number of things killing is
thinking about doing and so it is the
[1:22:55] the only way you end up with a sidewalk
Network in a city is when someone buils
[1:22:59] that first sidewalk it might go to
nowhere but eventually if everybody you
[1:23:02] know builds that sidewalk and I think
that's what you know you would be trying
[1:23:06] to do here now the Alternatives I
presented was trying to figure out where
[1:23:11] the those key destinations are currently
or proposed um and so which is why I
[1:23:17] left that middle segment out but you're
right if that is something that is
[1:23:20] really important to the town
then then that can be the preferred
[1:23:25] alternative um but I I just looking at
it from an analysis point of view um
[1:23:32] think it's more appropriate to think I'm
connecting this recreational destination
[1:23:36] to this recreational destination or I'm
doing it in the village um but you know
[1:23:42] again this is you know what what your
preferences are and it's time to have
[1:23:46] those discussions but I wouldn't be
afraid of doing something that slows the
[1:23:51] traffic here especially in your village
District because that's what you want to
[1:23:54] do and even along the whole quor the the
quor is currently driven at about 60
[1:23:59] miles an hour in the segments and that's
not what we want so what what we have
[1:24:04] isn't working and if we want it to
change we have to start thinking how we
[1:24:08] can engineer it to
change just for a little history I'm
[1:24:13] Ellen prior live on JY and my husband
retired state police and he identified
[1:24:19] that coming
down down when we have to turn Journey's
[1:24:23] End that could there potentially be
better signage because if because trucks
[1:24:29] like sail down you either have to keep
going down the mountain or risk your
[1:24:35] life so we went to VR and they took some
time and they came back and they told
[1:24:42] him that there wasn't enough statistics
my husband was thinking public safety
[1:24:47] prevention and apparently they're
wereing enough deaths for them to
[1:24:52] consider just doing a little a bit more
signage there you know and it was very
[1:24:59] similar to ' 89 when there was no Rumble
strap I couldn't tell you how many times
[1:25:04] I talked with the commissioner of Public
Safety about the amount of deaths and it
[1:25:09] wasn't until the family of five got
killed that they put Rumble strip in so
[1:25:15] if you think prevention it doesn't seem
to be um doesn't seem to be accepted
[1:25:22] because I understand about data and all
that kind of stuff but that was um the
[1:25:28] response that he got and he's a guy that
gave 28 years of his life to Public
[1:25:33] Safety all in the state he also drove
North on 100 to go to Waterberry for the
[1:25:41] State Police he then got Rockingham and
drove South and the bikers it's
[1:25:47] unbelievable his suggestion was if the
state is going to adjust the high way
[1:25:52] for bikers then there should
be a license fee and accountability and
[1:26:00] then it comes to the what is the price
and who's going to do the law
[1:26:03] enforcement so I just wanted to input
that because it's not a new issue and
[1:26:09] there has been it's been addressed and
so I got you know how
[1:26:16] I a nurse working in ICU how many head
injuries how how many spinal cord
[1:26:23] injuries do you have to see on a highway
in order to I mean what what's the
[1:26:28] number you're looking for for the
statistics I'm just curious you know had
[1:26:32] three yeah they're very high summer
believeing I understand and it's right
[1:26:36] but you know the warded world kind of
thing and and there's so many in factors
[1:26:40] right I
mean but I will point out to you um the
[1:26:45] safety um climate at P has changed
significantly in recent years they are
[1:26:51] taking be a much more systemic approach
because the fatalities that are
[1:26:56] occurring are more on Rural roads they
are people leaving the road they um and
[1:27:02] they're aware of this and because those
types of crashes tend to be one crash at
[1:27:06] a location the statistics and don't bear
it out but what the statistics tell us
[1:27:11] is on certain types of Roads there are
more fatalities ER is trying to take a
[1:27:17] more proactive approach and so it might
be a better time to ask that question
[1:27:22] and look for for some
support information you don't need to
[1:27:27] always this is a new beginning yes is
fabulous yes you know but and I do
[1:27:31] compliment um I'm sure that someone in
our town contact City and as you go out
[1:27:37] the Dr on a road all of that Landscaping
has been totally cleared and that is
[1:27:44] like a blessing right and it's was such
a practical thing I mean my initially we
[1:27:49] had our our road people and not our road
people our residents on a road we took
[1:27:55] out our our instruments and went down
there to try to cut it lower but then
[1:28:00] there was one area that was a landowner
right by the house there um to the left
[1:28:05] and that was a different property line
so you know but however I compliment the
[1:28:11] work that has been done and I appreciate
the work that's in the
[1:28:16] future for sure those of all of us who
live in men didn't have can count
[1:28:21] numerous near misses yeah but that's not
quite the statistic yet but how many
[1:28:26] times
pulling good point it's probably good
[1:28:30] time to revisit it especially after this
summer we were talking about I mean I
[1:28:35] like some of your suggestions I think
they're great but low in speed Li would
[1:28:40] take people go slower I mean it's pretty
basic the statistics actually don't show
[1:28:45] that though people drive how they feel
comfortable driving I understand but
[1:28:49] when you're in the 45 mph Zone you're
doing 50 when you're in that 50 mph Zone
[1:28:53] you're doing 60 that's the I mean I'm
outs stop my store all day I see how
[1:28:57] many people flying by day definitely I
mean I two people Buy FR of the store
[1:29:01] this year
um it's a dangerous road I if you think
[1:29:06] of putting bike pads and people on the
side and then you're going to tighten
[1:29:09] the lane one little mistake you're
killing people on that road at that
[1:29:13] speed right but the idea is to engineer
it so that the driver drives it
[1:29:18] differently where we want to engineer
the solution to get the speeds go down
[1:29:22] even at 50 mes an hour if you're going
to have bikers and hikers walking by
[1:29:26] it's dangerous that's dangerous even at
50 yeah but they didn't see if you're
[1:29:31] talking about the shoulder alternative I
mean the fact of the matter is there is
[1:29:34] some carless population there are some
people who are waiting for that bus or
[1:29:38] who are out there biking currently the
um Killington pipo place because they
[1:29:42] have you know some of the um sh people
in there that's a big bus stop over
[1:29:46] there too but um I just want everyone to
know in town There's squatters going
[1:29:51] around so be careful
if you have a vacated building put up a
[1:29:54] no tresp passing sign on it so the cops
could do St about it the ti roll was
[1:29:58] loaded with they were renting it out we
got rid of them for now but I think
[1:30:02] they're in back building though just
give you the heads up I noticed them
[1:30:06] because they were on the bus
stop
[1:30:10] imag can I ask the question is U so is
lowering the speed limit off the table
[1:30:15] or yeah lowering the speed limit is is
not typically done because all you do by
[1:30:22] lowering the speed limit is you know
provide law enforcement with a way to
[1:30:25] write more tickets it very rarely
actually low the travel speed on
[1:30:31] roadway so and that's been proven in
mendan so we um we have been dedicated
[1:30:37] for the last 20 years of trying to
slow um traffic down on Route 4 by
[1:30:43] policing it and it hasn't worked at we
all know it has it works I understand
[1:30:47] that um and so visually we have to get
inside the brains of the drivers and see
[1:30:53] what it's like how to calm how to calm
the traffic so that it doesn't feel like
[1:30:58] they're driving a freeway we all drive
on that road when you're in that 45 M
[1:31:02] hour Zone you're not doing 60 miles hour
right but even if it's wide or skinny
[1:31:09] whatever because you're so afraid of the
ticket if you go to the 50 mile Zone you
[1:31:14] think nothing doing 60 65 M hour aring
with you the reason in the 45 M hour
[1:31:20] Zone you drop lower is the houses are
closer to the road there's mailboxes
[1:31:25] right there the lanes are
narrower business is a 40 coming up the
[1:31:30] hill then you're at 50 again I know but
I'm saying it it really is you know the
[1:31:37] character in The Village district is
different and that is why you're driving
[1:31:41] it differently you you are going 60
miles an hour through hillington that's
[1:31:46] actually what the data shows and it is
because it is you're not not at the
[1:31:50] bottom when you come down the 40 m
but when you go through Bridgewater you
[1:31:55] get to Bridgewater and the houses start
to get closer to the road and no you
[1:32:00] don't want to go 25 through there but
you do not want to go 60 through there
[1:32:04] you you well usually there's a cop
right I mean the sign that you put up
[1:32:11] was great but um it should have been
written a little differently saying you
[1:32:14] know radar strictly enforced on this Ro
slow down it's pretty much basic thing
[1:32:18] they had some weird sayings on it that
you didn't understand what the hell
[1:32:21] saying and that's speed trans
yeah Alternatives because we do tonight
[1:32:28] want to out of this with the direction
for
[1:32:30] Alternatives changing the speed limit is
beyond this the control here um what we
[1:32:36] can do though is potentially set you up
with prer alternative that is buildable
[1:32:41] and could make some
change so if you were to create a
[1:32:46] situation where the atmosphere or
however you want to call conditions
[1:32:49] suggest you go slower
um would the speed limit ever get lower
[1:32:55] in that case yes okay so they they speed
they set the speed limit based on the
[1:33:01] 85th percentile speed it's the speed
limit is set by how drivers feel like
[1:33:08] they should travel or by density so in
some communities where it's very very
[1:33:13] dense the speed limit changes or if
you're in the school zone there's
[1:33:17] certain locations where even if you feel
like you could drive faster they say no
[1:33:21] should drive slower but if the road is
designed to accommodate a fast speed
[1:33:26] that is how the speed limit is set is by
how you're driving
[1:33:30] it I have two two things uh one is uh uh
live on Woodard Road which is directly
[1:33:37] opposite the entrance to the
new forestry headquarters which is
[1:33:42] beautiful but it's directly across and
coming upill there are two lanes going
[1:33:46] downhill there's only one um those of us
who live there and experience
[1:33:52] turning onto Route four in various
conditions are very concerned that
[1:33:58] there's going to be a problem once that
once both things are open if you're
[1:34:02] coming downhill and you want to turn
right that would be one thing if you're
[1:34:05] coming downhill you want to turn left
onto wooded Road and you have a whole
[1:34:09] bunch of skiers behind you and there's
no uh way to tell people that this is
[1:34:15] now a a major essentially an
intersection at the very least there
[1:34:19] should be signage at the very least
there should be I don't know flashing
[1:34:22] yellow light but I really would
recommend that you that in terms of
[1:34:26] intersections you look very carefully at
that because so far all we've had our
[1:34:30] construction trucks moving in there
while they're building it but and I
[1:34:33] don't know how much traffic and uh there
will be once it's open but it's it's a
[1:34:39] potential dangerous place so you might
have kids over there that is a safety
[1:34:45] concern um as as far as an intersection
and could be a part of our s to be trans
[1:34:51] when you're looking looking at safety
looking at signing in advance for that
[1:34:55] but again not not anything that I can do
with the scope of this study um I'd be
[1:35:01] happy to run through the Alternatives
again to remind folks of what it is
[1:35:05] we're really talking about tonight and
what is within the control of the study
[1:35:08] sure go ahead um I'm hearing a lot of
the same concerns and to bring it back
[1:35:15] to what you're talking about my
suggestion would be alternative three
[1:35:21] through through the entire
stretch because we are narrowing the
[1:35:25] lanes we are slowing vehicles and we're
providing a space for pedestrians that
[1:35:31] has a buffer cell that addresses the
concerns of if we only lower the speed
[1:35:36] so much by this constrained environment
do we really want pedestrians that close
[1:35:40] to Vehicles so if you're looking for
opinions on what to do there's been
[1:35:46] several comments online too about having
a path separated from Road as the prefer
[1:35:50] alternative okay
great anybody else again I'm happy to
[1:35:54] run through the Alternatives if you want
to see an image of them again um I don't
[1:35:59] think I've heard from folks on the side
I was gonna say this is also an
[1:36:04] opportunity for men to make more menend
more desirable in the different ways
[1:36:09] that we would like to make it more
desirable in the can't I me everyone but
[1:36:13] there's you know I think for many of us
we kind of love the fact that we're pass
[1:36:17] through town like there's not too much
going on but at the same time it would
[1:36:22] be nice if there's a little bit like
gentler Lifestyle on Route four and it
[1:36:28] wasn't so hyper and and and everything
and then also that could in my mind
[1:36:34] produce an environment where people do
want to come in either ourselves or
[1:36:38] other people want to come in and um we
have the properties that aren't being
[1:36:44] utilized and create more businesses and
make men a bit more of um destination
[1:36:50] than it has been then so that the more
we do to beautify
[1:36:55] and slow down and give access to as many
make it as inclusive as possible then we
[1:37:01] could have more desirability for things
to
[1:37:10] happen was up sure um I I'm my name is
cat I'm coming from py I'm mostly here
[1:37:17] to listen but also a bike mechanic and
so tons of folks in my community are
[1:37:23] going up and down that road all the time
um I am curious just from research
[1:37:29] perspective why ballards or any type of
barriers the height of a car um haven't
[1:37:38] been proposed as an in between as as a a
solution that is cheaper than um than
[1:37:46] alternative three but um perhaps
more like visually safe than alternative
[1:37:55] one and
also gives drivers a little bit more
[1:38:00] fear of damage to their
vehicles yeah typically um that is a
[1:38:07] feature that is used in a more urban
setting where speeds are lower sure um
[1:38:12] at a location like this um it it isn't
that typical and part of the issue is
[1:38:17] the maintenance of that because they do
even inter up in setting they get struck
[1:38:22] and need to be replaced and they create
a a challenge for Paving and how they
[1:38:27] are attached to the pavement in some
cases reduces the life cycle of the
[1:38:33] pavement so there is definitely a few
things that make it a less desirable
[1:38:37] alternative here you would it would help
to Define that kind of idea to make the
[1:38:43] car feel a little more constrained and
that visual um line between the car and
[1:38:50] the the cyclist um but it isn't
something that is typically used in a
[1:38:54] setting
ties plowing would also be oh
[1:38:59] plowing the
winter anyone hav't heard oh I wanted
[1:39:06] just address the the uh not any
particular segment but the just that the
[1:39:13] road have continuity as it goes through
mending so that the surface is going to
[1:39:20] be clean
and smooth the cyclist because there are
[1:39:26] any cyclist who is interested in going
all the way to killing to Killington uh
[1:39:33] is going to be looking for a clean
smooth surface uh not any segments with
[1:39:39] with gravel because it's just going to
slow that person down and take energy
[1:39:44] and and um and also people who commute
to any place work along that uh in in
[1:39:53] mending or along the road are going I'm
not interested in you know um doing it
[1:40:00] for fun of it uh they have to do it and
they're looking for the same safety
[1:40:04] features as well as the same um ease of
pedaling and the safety of
[1:40:14] pedal and on just oh one more thing and
the there would be the recreational
[1:40:20] cycle
who um may be thinking about well I want
[1:40:25] to ride up to
wheelerville ride up the wheel of a road
[1:40:30] and do some gravel and that's a very
attractive rout but the safety factor is
[1:40:37] a critical Factor
keeping almost every cyclist that I know
[1:40:43] from doing it right now so in improving
mening in in route four um the more
[1:40:51] that is done the more
attractive that you know riding on L is
[1:40:56] going to become as an objective to get
into other places and
[1:41:01] bend so it does sound like I'm hearing
some support for a shared use path
[1:41:07] alternative um do we have a feeling for
whether it it on the North side or on
[1:41:13] the South Side makes the most sense I
would say there's some arguments for
[1:41:18] either um on the north side is where the
forest headquarters is um on the South
[1:41:27] Side um is willville road as you just
pointed out I mean there are certainly
[1:41:31] some destinations on either um does one
stand out to this group is I think you
[1:41:37] have less buildings on your North Side
than you do on the South Side I
[1:41:44] believe I'm not sure if I've counted the
buildings but I think as far as
[1:41:48] resources are concerned I think the
north side was a little bit better a
[1:41:54] little fewer fewer Crossings but um but
you know does that help you get to
[1:42:00] destinations um and one of the things
that we didn't get into is is the
[1:42:04] challenge that we have with Crossings in
that high-speed environment um VR will
[1:42:11] not put in a crosswalk on a 50 m per
hour road because what they don't want
[1:42:15] to do is encourage you to feel safe
Crossing W you know crossing a crosswalk
[1:42:23] you feel like someone thinks it's okay
for you to do so whereas their policy is
[1:42:28] you're if you're making that choice they
want you to know you're making that
[1:42:30] choice they're not encouraging you to
cross at any particular location is
[1:42:35] there a certain speed that they call
Smoke safety or is it
[1:42:41] 45 it's the maximum speed is 40 miles
per hour but even then it has to be on
[1:42:46] like a non us Road as well Road yeah so
so one of the things that we could talk
[1:42:54] about and this is really just you know
at strategic locations is there are um
[1:43:00] great separated Crossings for the Long
Trail and the appalation trail at other
[1:43:04] locations and um that is something that
could be considered whether it is by
[1:43:11] doing it in effect think of it like
through a culvert underneath the road or
[1:43:15] whether it is by doing it via a bridge
over the road now there is a significant
[1:43:19] cost associated with that um and I don't
know you know if something like that
[1:43:25] makes sense but I just you know wanted
to touch on the crossing because we
[1:43:30] would likely be looking at a shared use
path situation either on the North side
[1:43:33] or the South side and you would still
have some destinations and people on
[1:43:37] both sides that want have a question
online Mary had her hand
[1:43:45] raised Mary do you have a
question hi um so I live in Rutland town
[1:43:53] and Northwood Park is very
OHS the mute symbolism up can you hear
[1:44:01] me
uh uh do you w to ask Elizabeth if she
[1:44:07] can hear
her can anyone hear me Elizabeth can you
[1:44:11] hear
Mary yes I can hear
[1:44:18] her so that's be our
end okay so could you translate for me
[1:44:25] um in the meantime while we try to
figure out what the sound issue is maybe
[1:44:29] Elizabeth can attempt to answer your
question Mary but if not I can try to
[1:44:32] get back to you after the meeting oh I
was just gonna say um Northwood Park is
[1:44:37] on the North side so a reason there's
biking hiking
[1:44:43] pool the and turn on one of our speakers
on our laptops that are
[1:44:48] connected that way we don't get feedback
[1:44:56] in the room yep they won't
[1:45:06] here try again
Mary oh can you hear me now yes oh okay
[1:45:13] great sorry um so I was just saying that
Northwood Park is very close to the
[1:45:18] menden border and there's
um hiking and uh mountain bike trails
[1:45:24] and the pool and sports and um so the
north side of the road would be closer
[1:45:30] to that
too that's all I was trying to share
[1:45:34] thank you great thank you thank
[1:45:40] you the way it needs to be can you okay
perfect go ahead so does anybody know
[1:45:45] where the Valmont Trail is going to come
through is it coming through men because
[1:45:50] be another I mean that's going be
probably hugely
[1:45:55] popular proposed Trail is GNA have a
connection to the forest service
[1:45:59] building be on the North side there and
then also go near the Northwood Park
[1:46:03] it's going to connect to um Park Lane
and post are that could a lot of tra
[1:46:13] tremendous right now there's very little
p death SC in replac traffic after dark
[1:46:18] I'm guessing it multi Ed path shared Ed
Pathways go in that that usage goes up
[1:46:24] because people feel comfortable again
are we're a shared Ed pathway across
[1:46:29] existing intersections is our lighting
currently sufficient if there is
[1:46:33] increased use after dark winter
whatever
[1:46:41] Allway anticipating
some well depending on where we are so
[1:46:47] if we're in the village District your
locations tend to have lighting there
[1:46:51] would be a further evaluation if that
lighting need to be supplemented or
[1:46:54] modified to make sure that it captured
where the sh New Path was crossing um
[1:47:00] but there aren't that many Road you know
public roads that it that it's Crossing
[1:47:06] so I don't think that that would be a
detriment putting in that share use path
[1:47:10] in a more rural environment um you know
I there would likely not be lighting out
[1:47:17] on the shared use path unless it did
come in by an intersection and if you're
[1:47:21] going to have it at a point where there
is more vehicular conflict then then yes
[1:47:27] possibly but that would certainly be
evaluated during
[1:47:32] design there was also a question online
about um if there's a certain incline
[1:47:38] that could deter use of a multi-use path
like is it actually a real world um
[1:47:43] scenario that a path would be usable on
the root for corridor
[1:47:48] which I I would say for me personally
most
[1:47:53] definit but I see people cycling up to
the you know up to the The Hub like all
[1:48:01] the time it is amazing to me so although
yes most of us may say there would be no
[1:48:07] way I would do that middle segment on my
bike there are certainly plenty of
[1:48:11] people and those are those Recreation
enthusiasts that that I think men is
[1:48:15] trying to attract um so might get less
use than some the other segment
[1:48:21] certainly um but there will be some for
sure I would also say that
[1:48:27] to a lot of people riding up there one
electric bikes keep going to kill
[1:48:31] anything from Roll stuff like that I not
t but there the other one stop the store
[1:48:37] they need water
yeah and the concept if build it they
[1:48:43] will come so so I guess why don't I ask
this this group up a couple of key
[1:48:48] things it sounds like I'm hearing a
coalescing along providing a shared use
[1:48:53] path really throughout vending from from
end to end is there anyone who does not
[1:48:57] think that's an appropriate
um approach or the alternative is that
[1:49:02] the most expensive one or was that
[1:49:07] the i i my personal opinion is to
implement it easily in see how it's
[1:49:12] working instead of dumping a ton of
money and it doesn't work at all that's
[1:49:16] my opinion well one of the things we
could talk about is sp if you could like
[1:49:19] use part of that money started phase one
phase two works out you know spread it
[1:49:24] out so there could be a phased approach
where you look at in the village where
[1:49:29] it's probably most appropriate where
you're going to get more pedestrians and
[1:49:32] more cyclists um and in connection with
that talk about the restriping and so
[1:49:38] maybe the phase one grant that you
pursue includes those two pieces and
[1:49:43] then so at least the striping has
happened to provide some protection and
[1:49:48] a sh's path of a limited segment is is
implemented um because of course you
[1:49:53] know there are the funding there are
limits to funding and so maybe then you
[1:49:57] have in future phases then to continue
to to move the um the shared use path
[1:50:03] which I would suggest if you were doing
a three-phase project you really think
[1:50:06] about them phase two being that other P
end where we think we would get more
[1:50:11] usage because you do have to be
competitive in your application as well
[1:50:15] you have to be able to to show why you
think that people are going to use this
[1:50:18] investment if you're going for the big
money I don't know if you can go for the
[1:50:22] tip Pro the tip is what killington's
doing they're eating up a lot of the
[1:50:26] money they're not we're not paying the
money you know what I'm saying I mean
[1:50:29] there's
money the issue is you have to entice
[1:50:33] the businesses and because unfortunately
on that for corridor in recent years
[1:50:38] it's you know the restaurants have gone
out the hotels have gone out there PR
[1:50:42] Bas 45 M hour z in business the 50
[1:50:47] m basic you're not you're not wrong but
it is tough to generate money with the
[1:50:53] Tiff District if you don't have the
business coming in that's Pro make sense
[1:51:00] is
pay so that's the other part of this
[1:51:04] that I just want everybody to be aware
of that you're you're looking at a very
[1:51:08] large project on and mendan has a very
small budget so um annual budget so we
[1:51:15] spend a little over a million dollars to
run the entire town for a year annual
[1:51:21] operation and right now we don't plow
any sidewalks so we don't have equipment
[1:51:28] to plow sidewalks um or a shared youth
path so that is all continued
[1:51:33] maintenance is also a piece of this as
we go forward because there's only 1100
[1:51:40] property or 1100 people in Menan and 850
Parcels paying those taxes so we have a
[1:51:48] middle of the road suggestion here which
is Lane striping which is a lower cost
[1:51:54] and that way VR continues to plow the
whole Road um the straping is a cost and
[1:52:00] that's a a that's going to be an annual
cost by annual cost that you have to
[1:52:06] restrike um but the maintenance is
greatly reduced from that' be big
[1:52:13] maintenance if you ran you know share
Trail all the way from you know there to
[1:52:16] Killington you told us you know that's s
doing sidewalk and Killington with the
[1:52:21] little
thing well what we've typically seen is
[1:52:25] with a shared juice path as you do it
with full ploud I mean you don't use
[1:52:29] just a sidewalk so if you were to go
with a full shared use path you would do
[1:52:32] it you know with a full plow driving
down
[1:52:36] to J I mean this is V transis road so do
they uh take responsibility for any of
[1:52:44] the costs associated with restriping or
is that so there's a couple ways that
[1:52:50] can move forward one is to include that
in a Grant application but another is to
[1:52:56] talk to VR about when next they're doing
full striping and whether there is the
[1:53:01] ability to modify it and um come up with
what that plan should look like for for
[1:53:06] how that should be striped and if
they're amenable to that and the best
[1:53:09] time to do that is really when they're
going to put another course pavement
[1:53:12] down and I don't know when that is and
we can certainly look into that when
[1:53:16] that targeted to be done um for every 10
years and I feel like it's been roughly
[1:53:23] that time since the last there so there
going be an opportunity soon to to
[1:53:28] incorporate that and then you could
think about whether there's other things
[1:53:32] such as you know the crosswalks or a
sh's path or something else to pursue
[1:53:36] through grant funding for a longer term
solution what's your approval process
[1:53:41] like if we wanted to go forward with
like the alternative
[1:53:46] one is there are there studies that you
have to provide to be trans
[1:53:50] yeah so what ends up coming out of this
is so we've already done kind of an
[1:53:53] existing conditions assessment and um
you know we're following the steps
[1:53:57] associated with the granch um process
and from this meeting if we come up with
[1:54:03] what the planned approach is and it
could be a shortterm approach with
[1:54:08] followed by a longer term approach um
ultimately then we provide this to be
[1:54:12] trans so we met with them because it is
their Road and got some input as to what
[1:54:15] alternatives we should or shouldn't talk
about and I say that kind Loosely
[1:54:20] because there was nothing that they said
don't talk about but they did say things
[1:54:24] like me trying to get rid of the
climbing Lane they said that's a real
[1:54:27] long like be honest with them that's a
really longer term solution that's not
[1:54:32] it's not at the table but that's not
something that we're going to want to
[1:54:35] move forward with the short term so they
were up front with us they knew what we
[1:54:39] would be presenting today um and
basically you know what happens next is
[1:54:47] yeah if it's striping recommendation it
could become part of their work plan and
[1:54:51] or if there's something else whether
it's striping or whether it's you know
[1:54:54] putting in a sidewalk or shareed use
path the grant program and
[1:54:57] transportation Alternatives Grant or the
bike pad Grant or the way to help
[1:55:01] those so if the town collaborates with
say you know you're going down for take
[1:55:07] par you're going over North you have
this B Trail that's going to be um uh
[1:55:13] it's it's a reality and so then you go
down or you take a less online Road
[1:55:20] they've just researched it all there's
there are several several walkers on
[1:55:25] that road and also they're in bikers and
they come up from Kellington Avenue over
[1:55:31] that way and you
know as you know highways uh it's
[1:55:37] enticing to go faster right so it those
folks are in Jeopardy so and that's
[1:55:41] where on toown so you're looking you
have great money and you are showing on
[1:55:48] your whatever phase you want how you
want to do that that you're
[1:55:52] collaborating with um the Park Service
which is which is National and they have
[1:55:58] more finances than we do and and you're
also working you're in mendin and
[1:56:03] showing the collaboration to get over
there using existing
[1:56:08] resources you
know I I concur 150% on the village
[1:56:14] aspect and how how that goes because
it's very imperative for our town for
[1:56:20] that um so does that give you any
leverage in regards to collaboration
[1:56:26] versus just doing what you giv you a
much more palatable Grant application
[1:56:32] because that the bip grants are
competitive and so to be able to say
[1:56:36] you're working with surrounding
communities to create entire network and
[1:56:40] or that you know the forest service is
putting this in we know these are new
[1:56:44] connections that can be made to
different Trails um that makes your
[1:56:48] Grant application it isn't just a
standalone facility in the middle of
[1:56:52] nowhere it's part of a network go more
Global yes definitely that that makes it
[1:56:58] more I'm kind of new to this uh table
but I was just wondering has has a
[1:57:04] rotland town have we had meetings that
um you know you're doing this and we're
[1:57:10] looking to do this how can we improve
the you know coming down forward taking
[1:57:15] the left you know and I understand
they're doing it at the Post Road course
[1:57:19] there school section over there and
theyve done a really nice job you know
[1:57:23] with that my son used to like he an
interpretation he go out of J one day
[1:57:30] momy says mom can't I just like go to
north of pool today I said really you
[1:57:35] think you're GNA like drive your bike
down the
[1:57:38] FL so okay I said well why don't you
let's try it so we had our supper
[1:57:44] daylight so traffic I'm like following
down there and I'm thinking I'm not
[1:57:50] ready for this I don't think this is
going to work but it they have enticing
[1:57:54] you know um the kids have a really good
time it's a lot of fun kids are doing
[1:57:59] Mountain Bing which is excellent
Wellness you know but I just wondered
[1:58:04] how can we um collaborate and you know
be able
[1:58:09] to kind of make it like I mean you've
got the government you got the state you
[1:58:14] got rot in City over here you got rot in
town you know it seems like we should be
[1:58:19] able to do that and enrich all the
communities the other thing in regard
[1:58:23] signage a lot of
[1:58:34] towns veterans and having you know
having that signage that kind of
[1:58:40] Embraces the veterans who
um I respect highly um to have that in
[1:58:48] my town um which is not in the state but
I noticed when I go with seven you know
[1:58:54] they have you know who serves where Co
is yeah and any of those any either
[1:59:01] monumentation or as I said banners or
other things really helps with the plac
[1:59:05] making so I mean that is definitely
something to embrace to help you feel
[1:59:10] like you're arriving in a place the is
from you know doing that again not not a
[1:59:18] part of this so right now but why don't
we just take a step back because you
[1:59:23] know I I know folks are are going to
want to go home at some point why don't
[1:59:27] we just talk a little bit I heard a lot
of interest in the Shar pad you brought
[1:59:33] a great point up though that menen will
need to maintain that shared use path um
[1:59:39] and that is something that we need that
honestly if you apply for that Grant you
[1:59:44] you have to commit that you're going to
maintain that share juuse path um is
[1:59:48] there a short-term solution that folks
what you know what is the appetite is it
[1:59:57] um all in we we want the shy path the
entire way is there a in the shorter
[2:00:04] time thinking about segments with just
the the striping is there um and we do
[2:00:12] really need to find out like as towns
people that would mean if there is a
[2:00:16] change to the budget at town meeting day
all of you who are interested in the
[2:00:21] shareed use P need to get out there and
make sure that the town's people are
[2:00:25] going to vote in support of maintaining
that sh and you know grants come with
[2:00:30] matching funds so we would have to have
matching funds in order to construct
[2:00:36] this that is
true it seems like that's the only
[2:00:40] alternative that leverages the other
other communities assets and resources
[2:00:45] right
otherwise we could accomplish traic down
[2:00:50] nice right but is there reason to stop
and right now but I think you have the B
[2:00:57] which is definitely going to create a
lot of traffic right if you if you can
[2:01:01] connect
that because I mean I don't really know
[2:01:05] how many people got to walk up for
hillington I have two people come the
[2:01:11] store year maybe
yeah you know what I'm saying but it's
[2:01:16] not a large amount because that's air
roide
[2:01:19] up that I mean usually it's schools and
they're just torturing the kids well
[2:01:23] it's a high level
enus this very little road riding for
[2:01:28] month about and then of course the eik
will change terms of
[2:01:32] community but so my point would be like
if you get to to the new farest uh us
[2:01:38] farest service right where the Belmont
Trail will will be right connect that
[2:01:43] the people that will use Almont and then
connect that to the resources in R right
[2:01:49] right and then connect that to men at
least right
[2:01:52] so uh cuz I mean I think you need to
leverage everybody else's resources
[2:01:57] because I don't see a lot of resources
in menend in to drive people I mean you
[2:02:01] have like trigger spice which is cool
right people would like that and you
[2:02:04] have the Min golf right ice but
um my suggest would be at least to get
[2:02:11] that multi-use pass up to the for Center
or service center start from the and go
[2:02:17] up to the right because then you can
engage well first of you'll get people
[2:02:21] to come from the for service that use
mul to come down from men right and then
[2:02:26] they go over to R for those resources
right um I'm sorry stuff on Park the
[2:02:31] swimming pool and stuff like
thats and going to go that way you said
[2:02:36] yeah yeah so I think that then you could
capture some of that distance right that
[2:02:40] audience anyway and then because I think
pass there multiuse pass
[2:02:47] PA not
get resear what kind of Ro like you said
[2:02:53] you were deal with killing coming the
other way you know what I mean you have
[2:02:56] to get connect you know yeah that
sidewalk to Nowhere you know it's just
[2:03:01] in the middle but I think I think if
they're Killington they're
[2:03:06] they're might be into it
to the people who would be who might be
[2:03:12] visiting B would probably do so on FMA
Trail because otherwise they would be
[2:03:16] doing it right now on new porn they're
not
[2:03:19] so so I think develon is attraction is a
is a resource rather try to leverage and
[2:03:26] uh I think it's you know in terms of the
cost so you're not going all the way up
[2:03:29] you go to there the part service right
and then um and that's up marketable as
[2:03:35] well connect you can Market that so you
connect men to the trail to the m of
[2:03:42] course
we and then you know the the r can you
[2:03:48] know Hill Park and those other resources
as well so that my my suggestion would
[2:03:53] be that that would be a good thing to do
to get that multi-use trail at least up
[2:03:58] to the part service um because then it
becomes sort of a marketable asset as
[2:04:03] well hey this is what you do is who we
are is where we are we're local we're
[2:04:07] close right you're going to ride
building thing come on down we have
[2:04:10] rooms meals you know so my suggestion
yeah I have a quick question for the
[2:04:16] town the setbacks over there are 100 fet
corre
[2:04:21] correct is there any I mean you guys are
trying to tighten up the road and bring
[2:04:25] the house to closure you can't do it but
is there any chance that the town might
[2:04:29] up some regulations on that in future
building so that would be in the zoning
[2:04:34] re so as the Planning Commission applies
for a municipal planning Grant this year
[2:04:39] they'll start working on the zoning
regulation rewrite for going into
[2:04:45] 2024 and those are the different ideas
that you want to present to the Planning
[2:04:50] Commission to possibly reduce that
setback oretty extreme setb really you
[2:04:57] look at it I mean 100 feet yeah you know
yeah so the
[2:05:03] intention between you know the intention
there was to have green space between
[2:05:07] the buildings and to keep that rural
aspect but what hasn't happened is they
[2:05:14] built out route four so wide that now
it's just a if you want business to come
[2:05:19] in and I'm going to H on it again Lower
speed limits they come in on but you'd
[2:05:24] rather be closer to the road because if
you build a building there you're 100
[2:05:28] feet you got to build a building 100
feet back have a tiny sign and the
[2:05:32] parking lot pretty much has got to be in
the back of your store which is very
[2:05:35] rough for a business to open up I mean
by changing that might make your car a
[2:05:39] little better I don't know just a
suggestion
[2:05:43] W was there reaction to the proposal of
a shared Ed path from w Town Line to the
[2:05:49] forest
service is that um appealing do we think
[2:05:55] that's more practical than the entire
Lane do we think we lose something by
[2:05:59] dropping the East end or do we think
that that sounds appropriate I think
[2:06:03] you'd lose something but you're going to
sounds like you're going to gain more
[2:06:06] because like the people have been saying
there's more cyclists they will be
[2:06:11] interested in
that you can connect in the future too
[2:06:17] yeah yeah otherwise who you're who are
you trying to
[2:06:21] attract practical side of do it worth it
yeah yeah and and they come where they
[2:06:28] where they G
[2:06:33] they striping and maybe something in the
village to start and then that next
[2:06:38] segment of the path be like a phase two
feel like it's a lot well maybe you can
[2:06:43] make a combo too you're doing the pass
that way and then you have the striping
[2:06:47] going up the rest of the way you know
there's different theories can go with
[2:06:50] this so what do you do to narrow the
road where you don't have the the path
[2:06:55] anymore make it
less well I me as I showed in striping
[2:07:00] that that for alternative one in each
configuration and you know you can see
[2:07:05] it on your screen now um is using that
same 20 fet in a different way to make
[2:07:11] the driver feel like they're more
[2:07:17] constraint I have a question Clarity
question how La a process are we talking
[2:07:24] about that may be a hard thing to answer
and it depends it depends how successful
[2:07:28] you are in your Grant applications um
because I did a scoping study in um
[2:07:34] theas swon a few years ago and let me
think it's now three years ago now we
[2:07:41] are designing the first phase of their
improvements so they were successful in
[2:07:45] obtaining you know in the first round
with their grant program after because
[2:07:49] of course this still has to continue
through the process um when once we come
[2:07:52] up with a bird alternative and create a
draft scoping study po to V and VR is
[2:07:58] review of all of their departments and
that's where they say oh my gosh that's
[2:08:02] going to be incredibly difficult because
of that one like how are you going to
[2:08:05] address that and can you comment on this
or your estimate is too high because of
[2:08:09] that and they they comment on all the
different aspects of the study and then
[2:08:13] ultimately it also needs to be endorsed
by the select board um with the full
[2:08:18] understanding what that means those
implications about maintenance Etc um
[2:08:22] after which point then you have this and
then you look for those grant
[2:08:25] opportunities that come up from be now
there is currently right now the TR
[2:08:29] Alternatives Grant is out there right
now so we don't have the study but maybe
[2:08:34] next year at this time you'll be in a
position you could apply for that grant
[2:08:37] for example um but you may not be
successful in that first grant R so um
[2:08:43] give a sense of what the cap on that
Transportation Alternatives Grant is in
[2:08:48] terms of um I am less familiar with the
amounts and the transportation
[2:08:53] Alternatives Grant the bike P Frant I
have seen that for projects anywhere
[2:08:59] from very very small to um I think 1.5
million for shareed use path or you know
[2:09:06] something along that
line and those are just some of the ones
[2:09:11] I'm aware of it's not I don't know the
whole list of all those supports I just
[2:09:15] wanted folks to get a sense of you know
is there any liability towards the town
[2:09:20] when you're building all this stuff and
these people going and driving around
[2:09:24] does the town have a liability towards
that someone get skill or Hur on that
[2:09:27] situation that is a great question that
I don't know that I can answer fully it
[2:09:32] is still within VR right of way they are
still the owner but the town is
[2:09:37] maintaining it so I think if there is an
argument about how it's maintained that
[2:09:43] to the risk then
perhaps I don't
[2:09:49] either but it doesn't fall under that
personal
[2:09:52] liability
[2:09:57] law yeah I'm sorry Thinking Out Loud
[2:10:06] ask so are we looking
[2:10:11] for res I mean
resol I mean I'm Hing to come from this
[2:10:16] with some direction as to I'm going to
go back and draw up and look at imp pass
[2:10:20] up um and so I've definitely heard
support for a path on the north side of
[2:10:26] the street um a phased approach that
involves you know striping to try to um
[2:10:32] get us some of this um it sounds like
the the the sh's path on the North side
[2:10:37] would extend probably from the Town Line
to um the forest Service headquarters
[2:10:43] ultimately it might need to be phased
because again that is a big chunk of
[2:10:47] distance
um let me ask you about in in the
[2:10:53] village for example in the village
District um do we have an interest in
[2:10:57] some of those crosswalks were the
crosswalks I didn't identify are there
[2:11:01] destinations that we want to think about
Crossing pedestrians in the village you
[2:11:06] have to go down to 40 miles an hour
though um well I design it to be driven
[2:11:11] at 40 miles an hour we could get there
to get no I'm just you know saying
[2:11:16] figure that y so is that where we want
to lens do we want crosswalks I showed
[2:11:21] them between sugar and spice and the
mini bul and I showed another one down
[2:11:27] between the Orchard and alen
[2:11:31] pools it's dangerous though because get
snow you get people going across that
[2:11:36] road icy or something like people trying
to stop you know they think you're going
[2:11:39] to stop and you don't it's it's
something you really to think about I'm
[2:11:43] not against I think they're great but
you know it's something to think about
[2:11:47] you know people doing it no we'll
evaluate that in consider with the
[2:11:53] guidance you know because it isn't below
40 miles an hour currently is that a
[2:11:58] part of the first phase I mean maybe we
identify as that as the second phase
[2:12:03] that happen if if we were to
choose um the
[2:12:09] striping hoping that the um speed would
come down for the drivers just
[2:12:15] visually I mean that
by The Orchard that's that's a little
[2:12:21] Rat Race
sometimes
[2:12:24] um would that come after that would
there be some sort of
[2:12:28] study well with a multiphase I we could
identify that that's something like
[2:12:33] evaluation of speed and crosswalk
locations as part of phase two
[2:12:38] yeah I'm definitely a fan of starting
small cost effective seeing how see
[2:12:46] effects and see what it does if it's
going to be part of the project starting
[2:12:50] off it's striping part of the project
that you're going to go the two-way
[2:12:53] start with the striping see where it
goes and if it's start to be effective
[2:12:56] and working then make you know you can
go from there and I love the banner idea
[2:13:02] it's
cozy
[2:13:05] um yeah let's to that so as we showed
was just you the the down sign and just
[2:13:14] put it on Banner um and obviously it's
not scale it's very here but um yeah and
[2:13:20] that the kind of treatment of thek slow
people down and then we just grabbed a
[2:13:27] few other
examples um that we were aware
[2:13:31] of I feel like the banner is probably
the easiest and least expensive
[2:13:38] alternative um because you do it behind
the guard rail but it visually it is
[2:13:42] still that vertical element um it does
not have the impact of say a um sign
[2:13:48] like Jericho mon sign and again given
that area we know it is probably
[2:13:55] difficult to plant and get Tre to thrive
given there so as a result I think you
[2:14:04] know steering fors theer and that sort
of thing but we could think about
[2:14:07] Advanced signage um think about um you
know lighting periodic lighting as as
[2:14:14] you are approaching into town and with
the Lan striving to really reinforce the
[2:14:19] drivers that you're entering I would
think in terms of the crosswalks I can
[2:14:23] see the need for between sugar and spice
and the minol because that's two
[2:14:28] attractions the I'm not sure how many
people from Allen pools need to walk
[2:14:33] over to the many orang plus there's A's
a very sharp Hill at that point
[2:14:41] it's yeah I guess I guess the question
becomes if you are someone who is from
[2:14:45] town and you live somewhere near there I
mean do you just come for a walk here
[2:14:49] and is there a place for you to cross if
you need to cross so if you are coming
[2:14:54] from the other end of men and you want
to go to the coffee shop so you're on
[2:14:58] the shareed 's path and you need to you
cross to get
[2:15:02] home so we can't NE like if you come off
the Town Line Road and you're biking up
[2:15:07] the hill and you want to go to depalo's
we want them to cross
[2:15:12] at wherever the location is and then
proceed up on the other side of the road
[2:15:18] it's not it's going from Allen
engineering to to who's going from
[2:15:22] Allen's to go get you know a muffin at
at the orchard it's that's where you
[2:15:29] would cross to get to the other side of
the road to continue on to act so if you
[2:15:35] wanted to go to Sugar and Spice you
would cross there in order to go all the
[2:15:39] way up
Poss Network you got to have a crosswalk
[2:15:44] that it needs to be significantly uphill
from that very
[2:15:50] right places
[2:15:59] for frames it yeah it is a small cost
though um the paint is really low cough
[2:16:05] that's something that certainly you
could include in the grant um I I would
[2:16:09] agree it does help you better establish
that
[2:16:14] place thank you for coming but we do we
agree that need to do something so we we
[2:16:20] at least need to start taking an
approach of the striping and the
[2:16:24] narrowing and the yeah
[2:16:32] so as much as I think like you know
start with the end in mind yeah we can
[2:16:37] do that but do it in phased approach and
then maybe we get more um that of the
[2:16:43] 800 tax properties maybe we get to 900
you know we see that we can do this and
[2:16:50] then do the next phase and then you know
to a th000 taxal well it's Redevelopment
[2:16:55] of those properties on roof for bringing
other businesses in and making a Vibrant
[2:17:00] Community where we' plan to um and
taking advantage of of parcels that we
[2:17:06] already have and taking advantage of the
less
[2:17:11] verticalized part of the roadway right
the parts of the roadway that are that
[2:17:16] are more pedestrian friendly to begin
with and grow it up and I don't mean to
[2:17:22] leave anybody out but the some of the
business owners were here in the more
[2:17:26] flat area that to me makes sense to then
work our way up and connect with
[2:17:31] Killington as
Kress and they're redoing their whole as
[2:17:37] you said earlier G you know where the
where the Welcome Center is and the town
[2:17:41] offices like they're redoing their
pedestrian and crossing and bikes up
[2:17:45] there too so we'll have more information
as sa for us and made and we haven't
[2:17:51] talked
about Rutland I think it's Rutland City
[2:17:55] having the road diet yep so things are
we are starting to get
[2:18:01] there yeah there is definitely a push on
any of these major arterials that belong
[2:18:06] to be trans to to change the character
when you're in the Village area for sure
[2:18:12] I think from the perspective ofing
committee
[2:18:16] and
[2:18:20] make all the applications the issue is
what can we do now what can we do
[2:18:24] relatively inexpensively like spring
which may achiev the the kind of
[2:18:29] unanimous impression we need to do
whatever we can to reduce the speed and
[2:18:34] maybe that will start to drive some
Rehabilitation properties and so forth
[2:18:38] while we think about longer term things
like multi share path but I don't what I
[2:18:46] kind of doubt this steering commit is
going to be recommending and I doubt
[2:18:50] that our select board is going to
recommend is that we just make it easier
[2:18:54] to get from Killington to R the city but
that's not
[2:18:58] our this project so while
I'm but I'm offer increased bicycle
[2:19:05] traffic and bont and so on so forth
question the town's going to have to ask
[2:19:09] itself is how does that help mended so
is having a whole bunch of mountain
[2:19:14] bikers coming from Rochester to findle
park
[2:19:17] don't do anything in our town except
Traverse it and potentially on the
[2:19:22] highway Le fality how does that help our
town so while we have a regional thing
[2:19:28] we want to accomplish we still have to
from and perspective we still at what's
[2:19:34] in
it so that's
[2:19:39] why striking issues trying to get the
change custom change Behavior improve
[2:19:45] property so I'm get
[2:19:52] that would have to be voted on soon
right yeah you know what I'm saying so
[2:19:57] you know and I don't want to stret your
speeding out any further right the
[2:20:00] question is is that what is that give
that you don't have got people slowing
[2:20:04] down but what does that do I don't
understand potentially let's say you
[2:20:09] let's say demonstr time the striping
slows the speed of now you can put in a
[2:20:14] crosswalk because the state would say
yeah justifi to rep put up a sign saying
[2:20:19] 40 instead of 45 maybe they changed the
signage instead of a flashing yell say
[2:20:23] slow 45 flashing yell say congested
District ah had slow 40 so well that in
[2:20:31] the appearance of we are a town yeah um
and not a drive-thru so people can slow
[2:20:37] down and pull over at the gift shop and
and notice it bu something that they
[2:20:42] stop when they're going
65 a I'm not there
[2:20:49] District ideally what you're trying to
do is make it feel like a place so
[2:20:52] people drive in a Fairmount slower and
this it and then businesses find it more
[2:20:57] appealing like that's that you want some
of those businesses to invest to to re
[2:21:03] to you know some of them that are
business to become
[2:21:08] business and don't I'm just you know
don't think this the wrong way it but
[2:21:13] I'm a businessman I just don't see like
how slowing it down makes me want to
[2:21:16] open a business there you understand
what I'm saying that there has to be
[2:21:19] some sort of I don't know you need to
have some sort of draw you need a reason
[2:21:25] right to stop so but but I'm saying this
a bigger question right so but in the
[2:21:30] meantime then yes I'm I'm all for the
the the uh the moderate approach right
[2:21:35] the engaged approach because
um yeah I mean let's see how go money
[2:21:41] right the question is though if it's
grant money right you got to ma the
[2:21:46] grant then you have to Main
more
[2:21:55] anyway online is anyone still with us
online still online there a lot ofs and
[2:22:03] the shies path and whatever treatment is
done it should have actually be done
[2:22:06] through theard or
okay great did anyone online want to
[2:22:11] verbally provide comment
obviously
[2:22:16] perfect
shell yes oh yes hold on shell Rose is
[2:22:23] is
changing okay okay
[2:22:27] good go ahead
[2:22:34] shell do
usound I think that was just feedback
[2:22:40] from
us oh unfortunately shelle we are having
[2:22:45] trouble hearing from you
[2:22:53] she no she's trying but no so Rose your
volume is up and yeah
[2:22:58] no can she type her question yeah I'm
I'm so sorry sh if you want to type your
[2:23:05] question happy
[2:23:12] to
[2:23:16] anything
so I just wanted to ask one more thing
[2:23:20] um you when you're uh setting out your
findings um your report will you say
[2:23:28] though there was large um desire to
see you know a 10 year five year
[2:23:36] whatever eight year 18 year whatever
plan which Encompass the F and then but
[2:23:43] the purposes of
this think I I'm going to talk but I've
[2:23:48] heard from some of the stiring committee
and I look forward to Consulting with
[2:23:53] all of them it sounds like the
recommended long-term approach would be
[2:23:57] with a goal of providing a shared use
path through amended however we'd like
[2:24:03] to do that in stages and we think in the
short term the appropriate thing would
[2:24:07] be to look at changing the way the road
is striped to better accommodate
[2:24:11] pedestrians and cyclists on the shoulder
in a safer way but with then perhaps a
[2:24:16] phase two or in combination with the
phase one think of the chuse path in the
[2:24:21] village where we expect there to be more
demand for it and how it connects to up
[2:24:25] to the Northwoods pool or you know other
destinations in the village and within
[2:24:31] later phases continuing to lead
[2:24:36] up I think that's that's what I've heard
today so is a member of the steering
[2:24:42] committee so I I mean just been the
interest of time because we've been at
[2:24:45] this for two hours now
um do you want to wrap up for the
[2:24:49] steering committee like what the next
steps are going to be because ultimately
[2:24:53] you know Jen can't design everything
that she's described here for
[2:24:57] Alternatives she's kind of coalesced
what she thinks might be the
[2:25:03] preferred but that that that is my next
question for those of the steering
[2:25:08] committee who are here and we'll
exchange an email as well just to make
[2:25:11] sure we get everyone's input because I
know someone wasn't here is um did you
[2:25:16] hear what I heard I just summarized it
for you but Rose will have it in her
[2:25:20] notes in case she heard it differently
or Elizabeth heard it Stephanie heard it
[2:25:23] differently um but what I heard and what
I take as my charge from that is for
[2:25:29] this to be a successful product and
report I have to come up with then what
[2:25:34] are the constraints around that because
I was con you know concentrating my
[2:25:39] share juice pack off a different area
than necessarily we're talking about
[2:25:44] here um I have to look at those about
evaluate those impacts and think about
[2:25:49] what those you know we all know in that
area that I will call the hurricane Ira
[2:25:54] area um you know it's going to be talk
to accomplish Shar these path there we
[2:25:58] have to look to see how that could be
and what the impacts of how do you get
[2:26:02] that permitted like that could be
challenging um you know those those
[2:26:06] types of things so but I I would like to
confirm and I will do this VI an email
[2:26:11] that that is the direction and that that
is the long-term vision of the town and
[2:26:17] um then we can put together the scoping
study with kind of that gaser approach
[2:26:20] that I just mentioned if the steering
committee is supportive of it so Sarah
[2:26:25] in terms of
getting final approval from the town as
[2:26:30] to what gen should use to finalize the
report is there going to be a step I
[2:26:38] mean I'm assuming the steering committee
is not going to make that decision
[2:26:41] you're going to
carry yeah the steering committee should
[2:26:46] make the rec engb right
um so Jen will give you something to
[2:26:54] work with as far as a preferred
alternative based on all these options
[2:26:58] so it'll get steering committee approved
or edited first and then something
[2:27:04] brought forward to the select board to
sign off on and then she'll proceed with
[2:27:10] that in that is the alternative in the
report yeah so your initial research
[2:27:17] though had
less um barriers on the west side of the
[2:27:25] road on the sugar and SP side of the
road going down to yes yeah yep that was
[2:27:31] where we
had but it fits in with what people said
[2:27:34] about having it on the North side for
the rest of the corridor which is nice
[2:27:39] because what we don't want to do is to
create a w pth that cross yeah um the
[2:27:45] the only concern I have with that is
that most of the
[2:27:49] recreational uses in mending are on the
other side of the road and that we
[2:27:54] were're not accessing wheelerville road
which has all the hiking
[2:27:58] p and it's heavily used and it's heavily
used so and you know kind of tying into
[2:28:05] what Fred said about making sure that
we're presenting what's best for what's
[2:28:10] best for Ming are we connecting
resources correctly we connecting
[2:28:16] resources think about that by looking
again we'll have to just double check
[2:28:19] the the resource constraints um so maybe
we think about doing on the south side
[2:28:24] of Route four and then think about
having a goal of having a Crossing near
[2:28:32] um you know Park Lane or you know one of
the connections to have to the northw
[2:28:37] Pole right why couldn't it be on one
side and kind of coming up from the
[2:28:43] Rutland Town Line and then switch over
certainly it can if you were going to I
[2:28:49] would do it right in that kind of
Village area and make that transition in
[2:28:52] the village yeah that's certainly where
you want a crossing
[2:28:56] any
yeah so yeah I guess I'm not quite s on
[2:29:03] keeping it on one side or the other and
I think at the Rutland Town Line at Town
[2:29:09] Line Road I think from the local
concerns there was talk about a Crossing
[2:29:13] there as well to get from town Ro to the
other side that's going to be a tough
[2:29:20] one again because it's headed downhill
and speeds there yeah so I'm not sure
[2:29:25] about a crosswalk at that location I
think that's going to be harder than
[2:29:30] harder to um manipulate than in the
actual Village District where where we
[2:29:36] have a little it's not as steep but we
have a little more control over it s
[2:29:41] also Recreation Center which is way down
La of which is other side as well that
[2:29:47] people so the Shar pass coming up
from l Road on that side of the road up
[2:29:54] until they can safely cross somewhere
beyond the
[2:29:59] orchard um so that they can get on the
other side of the road in order
[2:30:03] to go to depalo's coffee or or down to
Sugar and Spice or go over to
[2:30:10] Northwood um seems to make a little bit
more sense as far as connecting our
[2:30:16] resources
[2:30:18] but we're still oh but then we're
on the North side and we want to be then
[2:30:25] on the south side for wheeler though
however yeah
[2:30:29] yeah hard our resour yeah past Sugar and
Spice going up so you're still talking
[2:30:38] about being on the North side up to like
the village and then at the village is
[2:30:43] where you then would transition over to
access most of the resources that are on
[2:30:49] the uphill side through the village are
on the right hand side of the right so
[2:30:54] there to the trails
[2:30:59] from where is
that um it's the vending road so you go
[2:31:06] downtown Lane Road and then up the notch
Road in order to turn on we have a small
[2:31:12] Recreation Area there that's that's what
I thought you there was the crosswalk
[2:31:18] down at that
end and then
[2:31:23] connection to you know to the Northwoods
pool because I'm in the bed enough
[2:31:27] people that I probably um you know would
like to be a part of that connecting to
[2:31:32] that resource and then there's a huge
demand to want to put some sort of share
[2:31:38] use path on for we get wider so that
it's safer to walk on room we it just
[2:31:44] that takes a lot of coordination between
the two
[2:31:51] communities okay um yeah so we can see
about laying it out and think about what
[2:31:55] those where how to how to cross people
how to
[2:32:01] um what look at what those resource
impacts would be doesn't seem that it
[2:32:05] would be good to have that multi-use
path sort of stay on one side and then
[2:32:12] anticipate going up to the town lining
up here P right and not be
[2:32:21] Crossing yeah I mean let's think about
it I mean let's think about whether it
[2:32:25] makes sense I don't love it going and
crossing and Crossing back like I think
[2:32:29] it would be better to try to be more
consistent and have Crossings to get to
[2:32:34] the destinations you want to get to um
but if it crosses once if that makes
[2:32:38] sense I I think that could work
um let's give it a little thought and
[2:32:44] look at those resource constraints
[2:32:51] yeah right so that I think that
transition zone is going to determ a lot
[2:32:56] honestly I don't know if you're gonna
have an off-road option I don't know if
[2:33:00] I am either which is kind why I stayed
away from it but it's evated I mean if
[2:33:04] that's um you know an Offroad auction is
going to be really challenging in that
[2:33:08] transition zone and you know look at
what you to that
[2:33:15] yeah
[2:33:19] let's look at it I mean I can see why
people want it but that could be it
[2:33:24] could be
challenging think it's gonna be outside
[2:33:28] your
[2:33:32] budg that's right you can always build
it it's how much it's gonna C the
[2:33:37] problem thank you everybody
online sticking with
[2:33:45] us
[2:33:49] and I don't know how you collaborate
with the with the towns but that's a I
[2:33:53] mean
I history getting grant money the more
[2:33:58] you show collaboration with and I
actually don't know where that goes but
[2:34:04] when when you look at that area how does
that get over the Middle Lane Drive does
[2:34:09] that go over to chy I mean the the the
path the pathway know had a number of
[2:34:14] different Maps no oh the the most recent
I saw was the section it's gonna come
[2:34:21] from the CH and pfield TR just completed
it's going to come through M through the
[2:34:26] national forest it will be a Spur that
connects to the Killington Trail a Spur
[2:34:30] that connects to the forest service and
the main Line's going to go out towards
[2:34:34] like Northwood and the idea is that it
connects to Northwood and then from
[2:34:38] there to like Pine Hill through the city
why I asked that question is because
[2:34:41] when we had the the I remember we came
up with the chip Highway that went J but
[2:34:49] how do you think living
[2:34:55] int know when you think about that oh
that they were gonna have the
[2:35:00] alternative that didn't work how were we
G to get the kids to bar so they were
[2:35:05] talking about that and I was wondering
if that beond path goes over that way so
[2:35:12] I mean that was an alternative the only
one that actually we had as a backup so
[2:35:18] I just didn't know I havn't seen a map
I'm just finding out about this so Jen
[2:35:23] were you one of the people that had to
walk the woodi parkway at night and you
[2:35:26] had Mike Bron warning you about the
mother bear and the two Cubs so he had
[2:35:29] no not I only was on the wood Parkway
during the day oh yeah long days you
[2:35:36] know good for you I was wondering if it
would be if you already know about the
[2:35:41] book we wrote
about and and we're still remembering
[2:35:46] that because that really brought our
time together
[2:35:49] especially soive as a I've been a tra
engineer 30 years like talk about
[2:35:54] Innovative thinking to solve a
transportation problem and just um that
[2:36:00] you know you can figure it out without
having that highway there like you can
[2:36:04] get people too I got my groceries and
although I could have carried M did a
[2:36:08] little one at the time with me um but
they did give me a ride
[2:36:14] in well thank you
yes than okay folks online we are
[2:36:19] adjourned I'm going to go ahead and just
connect have a good rest of your night
[2:36:23] and thank you for joining
[2:36:44] us