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All right.

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and of course, I'll put my account away. Okay.

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I'm on it. I will call the april 13th, 2026 regular meeting of the meridian township planning commission

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to order and we will go through roll call. Commissioner nahum? Here. Commissioner brooks?

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present. Vice chair mccurtis? Present. Commissioner shuesberry? Present.

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commissioner snyder? Here. And commissioner mcconnell? You're here. And the chair is here,

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so we have a full board today. And at this moment, I can move to item three on our agenda,

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which is policy. Mr.

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shirky, do we have any remarks? There are no remarks. There are no remarks. With that, I will move

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to item four on the agenda, which is approval of today's agenda. Do we have any additions,

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deletions, or amendments to the april 13, 2026 agenda? We do not.

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hearing none, I would move for a... Uh move for or it asks

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for approval of today's agenda so move second so moved by commissioner mcconnell seconded

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by vice chair mccurtis uh also note commissioner nahum was also willing to do so um all in

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favor aye aye any opposed very well we will consider today's

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agenda approved and with that we will move to approval of the minutes

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from the march 23rd 2026 meeting item 5 in the agenda are there any amendments

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changes deletions to the minutes from our march 23rd, 2026 meeting.

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okay, hearing none, I would entertain a motion

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to approve the minutes from the march 23rd agenda. So moved.

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moved by vice chairman curtis. Second from commissioner shuesbury.

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all in favor, aye. Aye. Opposed? And the minutes are approved.

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with that, we'll move to number six. There is a communications from ben. I'm going to go

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with ugarhide. Probably butchered it. Regarding the zoning amendment

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26002 that is in your packet, and then I handed out an email from a resident also

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about zoning amendment number 26002. I will note there's an email

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here from nancy, nancy7654 at gmail.com, which we've been handed.

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can I ask a question about that? Commissioner brooks.

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for when we get communications, so when somebody comes... Before the commission make a

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public comment, they usually have to say their name and address

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at the podium. So in email communication, is that also required to be

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considered an official comment? No. So we could get an email?

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I save all the emails that I get on everything. They're all foiable. I keep them all

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in the appropriate folder. And I don't think they're required to give their name and address.

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it's just we ask them to do so. Oh, okay.

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all right. I'm just curious about the differences. No, it's a good question,

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but no, I keep all emails. Okay. That would make sense,

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because you are foia-able. All right. Thank you.

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anything further on communications item six on the agenda?

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there is not. Okay. That's a no-action item. We'll just note that we have

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the two emails noted, and then we can move on to public hearings. The first being sup 26007,

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tailgaters, special use permit. Mr.

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torkey. Thank you. Oh, this is amazing.

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okay. Does this one work better?

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yes. It's an ec2. Okay.

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special use permit number 26007, tailgaters. To construct a tailgaters gas

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station and convenience store should also say a drive-thru at 1614 and 1622 grand river avenue and a vacant parcel on

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central park drive. Not a lot to say

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on the first page. It is zone c2. These are all c2 uses.

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dimensionally, dimensional regulations, not a problem with it.

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I'm going to skip right to... This page here.

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item three.

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so we are making a move toward digital submittals. In our office.

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so the site plan that came with the application that you have in your packet is the second

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version of it and not the most recent version of it.

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the 11 by 17 in front of you is the current site plan and the one that should have been

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in the packet, it was mislabeled in the folder.

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it is part of the learning curve of moving to digital files. Staff apologizes

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for any confusion. But the upshot of it is their parking does comply with our

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with on the current plan. It complies

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with all our ordinances. There is one small thing that

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staff has noted in the update to the latest and greatest site plan.

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they didn't update their bike parking. I've had a conversation with the applicant.

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they're going to give us two more bike parking spaces. They do not have to request a variance

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for parking. However, the standards

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for gas stations in the c2 zone state that you can have no more than 10 vehicle fueling

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stations. Now, a vehicle fueling station is not the pump. A pump has two stations

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by definition in the ordinance. They have eight pumps.

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for this site plan to go through as proposed, they'll have to concurrently,

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if they get the site plan approval, they'll have to concurrently apply

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for a zoning variance. For the six extra fueling stations.

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so any resolution of approval that might happen, that'll be a condition of approval.

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other than that, staff points out they did submit a traffic study.

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the study will have to be approved by both the ingham county road department and by

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michigan department of transportation. The study does have a series

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of suggestions. Those are shown on the site plan.

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other than that, staff really has no comment. We've been talking

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to the applicant for a while. They've heard all of the,

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they've taken our suggestions. The plan is, you know, whatever

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environmentally sensitive areas of the subject property there are, they're working

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around them, they're following our ordinances. They just need the one variance

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and the two parking spaces.

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they are represented, and I can answer questions, or you can hear from the applicant.

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questions for mr. Shorkey?

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is this the same parcel that we had previously looked at for a potential storage unit

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facility? Yes, it is, and a marijuana dispensary.

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um, can you pull up the location and like the parcel here? I just want to see where the

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closest residences are. Absolutely. I am remiss. I should have thought

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of that. Oh, mabson's g.I.s.

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it is... If you'll give me a moment,

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I'm going to shut some of this stuff off.

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thanks trains and local roads

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it is yeah, yeah because it

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comes out on central park drive, thank you it's this

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piece and these two pieces so on the site plan hold on the

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site plan is oriented with north to the left, so if you turn it sideways, the

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detention area is shown as proposed on this, so they're

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not proposing any development up here off of central park drive.

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they do have a drive coming out here, and that's why the ingham county road department will have to get involved.

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they do show an ingress-ingress on central park drive. The development, the the

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convenience store, gas station, etc.

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comes up in this area here, so you don't see any development here in just kind

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of the general overview.

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thank you. Of course. Shrewsbury.

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on the plan that we have here at appears to connect to the

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street at the north side with the neighborhood.

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say that one more time. Like, if you turn it this way,

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where it says everwood lane private, is that going to connect to this little stub

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here? I'm going to, they, my understanding, and I'll let them talk

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about this, my understanding is that they've approached grand reserve about making that connection.

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I don't know if that's set in stone yet at all. They can answer questions

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about where they stand on that. And it's not a connection that the township's requiring, it's

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one that they're proposing. So it's not required for public safety? It's not, no.

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they have two ins and outs on the site. Thank you.

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commissioner mcconnell. Looks

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like there's also another stub on the northwest, or is that

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like a turnaround thing? We can hear from the outskirts,

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I'm sorry. Yeah. Yes, that's not going to go in some place.

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not as far as I know. I haven't heard of any other

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development proposal going in that direction, but it's

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simply just a potential turnaround for emergency vehicles,

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I assume. Okay, thanks. Mr.

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nagel. Apologies for my interruption. Sure, sure, sure.

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are the neighbors informed? Like the 300 feet? Of course they are. They are?

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okay, so the fact that they aren't here means they were informed. Sorry, I don't mean to...

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sorry. Yes, yes. This is a public hearing. Public notification laws apply.

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in the case of grand reserve, it is technically one big parcel, I will say this.

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they did receive a copy of the legal notice and was

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told to hang it up in their office. And that's standard procedure

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for apartment complexes and things like that. I have two questions.

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so additional gas pumping

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stations, I know you said that would require a variance.

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is there any concern about that, given the amount of additional? Because right now is what is

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zoned for, what, you said eight? Ten.

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the zoning category c2 allows up to ten fueling stations,

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five pumps. We'll just talk in terms of

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pumps. ...allows five pumps. They want eight pumps.

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there's no concern from it from a zoning perspective, and their traffic assessment has

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taken that into account when they've looked at potential traffic

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on the site. So they want five pumps. I mean, it's zoned

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for five pumps, but they want an additional... They want three more.

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and by definition, that's six additional fuel stations. Because each pump has two

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stations. Two sides. Yes. Got it.

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that's what I was trying to figure out. Yep. My second question was

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about the traffic. Because of the additional fueling stations and it's

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coming off grand river just like speedway does. Get that. But just what does the, has the

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traffic assessment been done and what, you know? Yes, it has. And those kind of,

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those are not packaged. It. It makes the recommendations,

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as bullet pointed in my memo here, these are shown on the plan.

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so on grand river specifically, they have a right in, they're proposing a right in,

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right out. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't want to try

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to make a left turn out of that. Commissioner neal?

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another question. So are we supposed to be evaluating the site plan with the expectation that they

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will get this variance, or are we supposed to be evaluating it? Under the...

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no, go ahead and evaluate the site plan. So the site plan as is, as before.

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yes. Mr. Shorkey, can you, because we've done a number

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of different kinds of things that were like special use permit recently,

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but weren't exactly a special use permit, I feel like,

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can you walk us through why is this a special use permit

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rather than something else? We're just not even requiring a

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special use permit. We require a special use permit for gas stations

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in the c2 district, and we require a special use permit for all drive-thrus in the township.

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so then, so if, so since this looks like three parcels.

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it is. If it wasn't a gas station or wasn't a drive-thru, then there

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could be this building that would take up, that would go

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across all three parcels. Yeah. Yeah, we'd probably require

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them to combine the parcels as part of the site plan approval.

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we've done that with other people. I don't know why they'd want

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to, but I leave that up to them. I don't have a problem

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with that. If, yeah, okay.

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typically, in a multi-parcel,

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like grand reserve is a good example, right? They had to join those parcels together,

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and that's one big parcel now. Does the planning commission, I

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just, I'm sorry, this is a basic question. Does the planning commission get involved when?

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multiple parcels have to be joined? No, that's a land combination. That's an administrative

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function. Thank you. I just can't remember if we'd ever done that or if I had done

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that. Was there any consideration

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regarding the parking in here and the possibility of

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the ordinance changes that we're currently looking at? I looked at the changes.

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so we're not proposing any changes

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to the parking standards. We already did that last year. Right.

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so the parking numbers are the current parking numbers.

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as far as the parking layout, I don't see any problems in terms of any

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of the proposed changes. Okay. Even for like the buffer zones?

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yep. Yep.

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that's a good question. At least I have one. Would hate

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to create a nonconformity on this. I thought I was just trying to,

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like, just saying. Okay, thank you.

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of course. I think I know the answer

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to this, but when we see the right term taper, I mean it's just cut in a way where you can only,

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to prevent folks from doing this left term thing. Coming out. Right.

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it kind of cuts to the right so that you can get over and then out

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of the main line of traffic. Yes. Oh, I see. Okay.

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to enter. Okay. So the exit though, because you don't want

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to have a no left turn sign. Right. Right now, like where bank of

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america is, you can only turn here I can show you the way that is cut even though I see

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people who go back sometimes. They do have fun. It might be one of those people

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and we don't want to be judged. No judgment. This is, yeah, this is not.

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it doesn't have the arrows. This doesn't have it as clearly

200
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delineated as the plan in front of you,

201
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but the basic idea, you have this taper here going

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in here, this would be a right turn in, and then the right turn

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out would, you'd. You'd have to get in, I think, yeah, you'd have to get into the traffic.

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yeah, that makes sense. But, I mean, that's a configuration that we see around the township

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in places. Thank you.

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of course. I don't know. Commissioner brooks?

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was there any discussion about not having any entryway off of grand river?

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no. There is a current. Curb cut there.

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yeah. They're just widening it and utilizing it.

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okay, so it's not, there's no additional curb cut. Correct.

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it's happening across all the two partials that are on the south side.

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no, there is an access. They're keeping their access in the same location.

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yeah, yeah. Why?

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actually, maybe they're not. There is one access.

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it would have gone to this house that is shown on our parcel viewer that's

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since been demolished. They're moving the act.

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you know what? Rather than guessing, give me a second. I'll show you how to do this.

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here, turn on the imagery. Okay. Please do. There we go.

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this is... Come on up and introduce yourself. They're going to ask questions

220
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of you anyway. So my name is jeff haddad. I'm from tailgaters, 1622

221
00:19:38,567 --> 00:19:42,033
west grand river. To clear this up, I believe there's two current curb cuts,

222
00:19:43,933 --> 00:19:47,167
and we're proposing to go down to one. So for all intents and

223
00:19:48,033 --> 00:19:51,633
purposes, you'd be sharing with bank of america? No, no. That's a completely different

224
00:19:52,633 --> 00:19:56,267
site. So there's the two old homes that were demolished on the site.

225
00:19:57,633 --> 00:20:01,367
there was, each one of those was serviced by its own drive. Oh, okay.

226
00:20:02,267 --> 00:20:02,267
thank you.

227
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:10,433
this may be for mr. Chorky. Is there the possibility that

228
00:20:12,333 --> 00:20:16,100
we would just consolidate the curb cuts? I mean, so in this drawing

229
00:20:17,867 --> 00:20:19,800
here, the paper one, there's already two curb cuts.

230
00:20:24,067 --> 00:20:28,000
we're going to replace the one on the left with a bigger one,

231
00:20:29,833 --> 00:20:32,833
but there's already one just to the west of that on the other parcel.

232
00:20:34,167 --> 00:20:36,933
there's two cuts. That's their property.

233
00:20:38,267 --> 00:20:42,033
yeah. But it's still just a main entrance to a c2 space.

234
00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:48,367
yeah. So is there any way that we can just have used that and so we

235
00:20:51,133 --> 00:20:54,833
don't have multiple curb cuts in that same area? You don't have multiple curb

236
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:58,967
cuts. They're going from two to one. No, I know.

237
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,033
I'm saying if we think about this as a collective area, it's not.

238
00:21:06,367 --> 00:21:08,967
just those two parcels. Oh, you mean like with bank of america, etc.?

239
00:21:10,567 --> 00:21:14,400
we can't make them connect. No. We can't force an access easement

240
00:21:15,633 --> 00:21:18,933
on an adjacent property. Yeah, I'm not proposing that, that we can force anyone. But I don't, I mean,

241
00:21:20,933 --> 00:21:20,933
we were just talking

242
00:21:25,633 --> 00:21:29,067
about the traffic, and we were talking about how there's going

243
00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:32,367
to be more traffic, and there's going to be requirements for people

244
00:21:34,933 --> 00:21:38,767
to turn off and on into this developed space. Yeah. There's already a developed

245
00:21:40,533 --> 00:21:44,200
space right next to it. Why do we need two entry points to commercial area?

246
00:21:46,833 --> 00:21:50,833
I don't understand the question. So you've got this access here

247
00:21:53,133 --> 00:21:56,800
that goes to this site. You've got this access that goes to the sparrow. There are two drives

248
00:21:58,467 --> 00:22:01,333
on the property right now. Think of it as one property, although it's just two parcels.

249
00:22:02,533 --> 00:22:05,700
they're proposing to take two. Drives and make one out of it,

250
00:22:07,767 --> 00:22:11,567
albeit a larger commercial. We can't force interconnectivity between

251
00:22:14,067 --> 00:22:17,833
private landowners. I don't understand the concern. It looks like they have a road

252
00:22:21,033 --> 00:22:24,133
connecting the two parking lots, if I'm reading the site

253
00:22:25,733 --> 00:22:29,133
line correctly. Yeah, you're right. They have a proposed road that

254
00:22:30,333 --> 00:22:33,900
would connect the two. You do have a proposed road. Can you explain?

255
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,133
no, I believe that was required by the township, if I'm not mistaken.

256
00:22:40,667 --> 00:22:42,867
but we certainly don't need it. Is there not an ordinance that

257
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,633
calls for it? I'd have to go back and look

258
00:22:57,033 --> 00:22:59,967
to see. That might be a requirement of the corridor improvement.

259
00:23:01,367 --> 00:23:04,467
there's a corridor improvement overlay district. That's going on here has to do

260
00:23:06,633 --> 00:23:08,600
with access, but they still need their own entrance.

261
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:13,933
like that's a connection. It's only 25 feet wide.

262
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:19,633
I mean, a little follow-up on this is mdot,

263
00:23:21,633 --> 00:23:24,600
I've worked extensively with mdot over the last year as we've looked at this site.

264
00:23:26,267 --> 00:23:29,533
they're well aware of the traffic study. The way the the approach is

265
00:23:31,233 --> 00:23:34,233
designed right now was right out of mdot's book. They sent me a book

266
00:23:35,567 --> 00:23:38,333
of designs and said, use this design. Here it is.

267
00:23:40,167 --> 00:23:43,733
this is what you get. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I can understand that as well.

268
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:45,200
and I'm trying to think outside

269
00:23:50,567 --> 00:23:52,167
the box slightly here and saying that one

270
00:23:55,767 --> 00:23:58,567
of the underlying goals is to reduce curb cuts. And because the more curb cuts

271
00:23:59,833 --> 00:24:02,600
we have, then the more entry points there are, where there's more

272
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,500
people slowing down on grand river, where you're going

273
00:24:09,433 --> 00:24:12,433
over 45. So if there's a place that's getting ready

274
00:24:14,033 --> 00:24:17,200
to be developed, and there's almost no development on it,

275
00:24:18,567 --> 00:24:22,367
and there is already a curb cut, that according to this design,

276
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,733
it can't be... Well, I don't know how far away it is.

277
00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:30,100
it may be 20 feet away on the west side.

278
00:24:33,333 --> 00:24:36,700
I don't really see why there couldn't be a possibility of a shared entryway

279
00:24:37,967 --> 00:24:41,833
into these areas. We can't make bank of america share their entrance.

280
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:46,467
they're required to have their own entrance. It's grand river avenue.

281
00:24:48,133 --> 00:24:51,867
I understand we can't make them do it. I get that.

282
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,867
okay. So I'm throwing this out there. And the public hearing as a

283
00:24:57,767 --> 00:24:57,767
possibility.

284
00:25:08,867 --> 00:25:11,733
in the meantime, I think, commissioner mcconnell, you've

285
00:25:13,300 --> 00:25:17,300
been waiting. I think you had a comment. I feel really picky now that

286
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,933
I've focused my eyes enough to see that that's a concrete pathway running very faintly

287
00:25:24,633 --> 00:25:26,833
through the drawing. So I found my pathway.

288
00:25:28,733 --> 00:25:31,967
you found your pathway. Yes. Pathway is shown on the plan

289
00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:38,033
thank you we show a pathway from the grand reserve as well as from grand river as well we love sidewalks I would love

290
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,667
to hear you explain circulation on this site is that something we can move to yes I will say

291
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:48,333
and whatever else you'd like to yeah perfect a little history about me is I operate

292
00:25:49,733 --> 00:25:53,667
the other four tailgaters in the lansing area we've got a fifth one under construction here

293
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,833
in williamston I've been in the business for 26 years now I started in high school,

294
00:26:00,533 --> 00:26:03,733
grew up here in meridian township, lived the first 32 years here in meridian

295
00:26:05,067 --> 00:26:08,167
township. I've always loved this community, always wished

296
00:26:09,467 --> 00:26:12,133
to have a store somewhere in here, and this looks like a great opportunity here.

297
00:26:13,733 --> 00:26:17,567
so your question about the circulation of the site, this site is very,

298
00:26:19,267 --> 00:26:21,300
very similar to the last two sites that we've done.

299
00:26:23,333 --> 00:26:26,367
the building size is going to be just under 10,000 square feet again, I think 9,800.

300
00:26:27,967 --> 00:26:31,967
same number of fueling stations as the last two that we've

301
00:26:33,933 --> 00:26:36,433
done. So the delta township project that opened in 2025 also had

302
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,967
the 16 fueling stations. And then same with the one in williamston.

303
00:26:43,133 --> 00:26:46,200
that one's also being built right now with 16 fueling stations.

304
00:26:48,367 --> 00:26:51,433
that's what helps make the site economically viable for us. Anything less than that and it

305
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:56,367
would become cost prohibitive. The cost of building nowadays is...

306
00:26:58,133 --> 00:27:01,167
I mean, you probably know it's extreme, so that just adds to the bottom line

307
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:05,200
for us. I'm also super curious

308
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:08,567
about the business itself. When I hear drive-thru,

309
00:27:11,933 --> 00:27:15,567
what sorts of products can you pick up drive-thru? So we pride ourselves

310
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,567
on being a one-stop shop, whether it's grocery, convenience items.

311
00:27:21,467 --> 00:27:25,333
at some of our other locations, we've got a full-service dunkin' donuts with a drive-thru.

312
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,967
we have not identified the restaurant user at this site yet, but it'll be a national brand,

313
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,000
somebody that you're familiar with, somebody that you'll be proud of, and obviously you'll hear

314
00:27:36,467 --> 00:27:39,267
about that when we go to site plan approval. You do sell liquor?

315
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,900
we do, yep. The pack is out the front door. What was that? Does that drive

316
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:50,767
through as well? No, it's a packaged liquor inside sales only. Yeah, the michigan liquor

317
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,800
control commission would have their work. They would now like that.

318
00:27:58,167 --> 00:28:01,733
I think a buddy of mine grew up someplace where that was a thing. But if you could talk more

319
00:28:02,767 --> 00:28:06,467
about the connectivity that you were talking about, the pathways and stuff. Yep.

320
00:28:07,433 --> 00:28:11,033
so we're a big fan of sidewalks, and we've got a sidewalk coming from grand river for any

321
00:28:12,567 --> 00:28:15,300
of the guests that want to visit us from the apartments

322
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,400
across the street. We have not reached a deal with the property owner of the grand reserve,

323
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,733
but we've reached out to him and suggested the pathway and the access agreement

324
00:28:26,633 --> 00:28:29,967
with the road. We don't think it'll be a problem, but we're working

325
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:34,300
with him. Is that the everwood lane? It is, yep.

326
00:28:35,733 --> 00:28:39,333
and then you can see that we've got an access drive to central park as well.

327
00:28:40,633 --> 00:28:42,133
so just like mdot, I've worked very closely with

328
00:28:45,133 --> 00:28:45,133
ingham county road

329
00:28:49,367 --> 00:28:52,867
department, giving them preliminary looks, asking

330
00:28:55,333 --> 00:28:58,800
for feedback on what the approach should look like, and we've incorporated all of those things

331
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,567
into that approach as well. Commissioner mcconnell? And the other small step that we're thinking might be a

332
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,300
turnaround, is that like for snow clearance or something? It's just keeping an open mind to what that might be

333
00:29:09,967 --> 00:29:12,867
in the future. There's no plans whatsoever for that vacant piece.

334
00:29:14,567 --> 00:29:17,667
along central park, but just keeping our options open. Cool.

335
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,967
so you compared this a little bit to the delta township new

336
00:29:24,333 --> 00:29:27,500
build from a couple years ago? Yep.

337
00:29:29,033 --> 00:29:32,300
it seems different. If I'm remembering the delta township one, there's not a ton

338
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,600
around that one. There's kind of, you've got a freeway, right,

339
00:29:37,767 --> 00:29:41,400
and that's just kind of you guys right there, right? Yes.

340
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:44,767
so to me, this is a little markedly different because it's in...

341
00:29:46,667 --> 00:29:50,200
a pretty high traffic area already, so I don't know if I'm necessarily asking a question, but I guess I'm just

342
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:53,800
challenging the idea that it's similar because it is, to me, just geographically different.

343
00:29:55,467 --> 00:29:59,400
so when the traffic study was completed, the same engineer that did that traffic study was the one that did the traffic

344
00:30:00,733 --> 00:30:04,333
studies for all... All three of our previous locations.

345
00:30:05,733 --> 00:30:09,533
so he's very familiar with the traffic counts that we generate and took everything like that into consideration.

346
00:30:13,133 --> 00:30:16,333
I was with the commissioner mcconnell who's our resident traffic study because as the

347
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,133
understand this but I keep I was at the front there's two traffic studies

348
00:30:22,367 --> 00:30:26,033
there's a study and then there's a or in the ordinance there's a traffic assessment

349
00:30:27,633 --> 00:30:30,800
assessment and then there's a study and then if the assessment shows that a lot

350
00:30:31,967 --> 00:30:35,000
that they propose if the potential traffic rises to a certain level that whole blown

351
00:30:36,467 --> 00:30:39,533
study that goes to a study. Okay, we did it in a more tech you went right

352
00:30:40,567 --> 00:30:43,633
to study we went right to the study because I reached out to them for preliminary guidance and they said do the

353
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,533
study study the what I usually do in your packet to keep the pages down.

354
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,100
I take all the appendix is out there this was a this was a full study.

355
00:30:54,467 --> 00:30:57,500
yeah. Yeah I say that all saying that I wouldn't understand, like I

356
00:30:58,667 --> 00:31:01,600
can read the traffic studies as many times as I want. I don't come out with any greater understanding.

357
00:31:06,233 --> 00:31:09,800
commissioner shusberry. I'm looking at the memo and it says it's two parcels.

358
00:31:12,067 --> 00:31:16,000
is that actually three parcels or is it two? There are three parcels. I'm sorry about that.

359
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:19,633
that's okay. But the acreage, the 2.4?

360
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,800
accurate is the 2.4 just the two that front on grand river and the um...

361
00:31:27,467 --> 00:31:31,067
no, this is 8 something. Can I address something that was brought up earlier that

362
00:31:32,967 --> 00:31:36,167
pertains to that question? Yes. Okay.

363
00:31:37,333 --> 00:31:41,267
so earlier it was talked about the three parcels and yes we intend to combine all three into one parcel.

364
00:31:42,467 --> 00:31:44,967
and that's going to be the total of 8.665 acres or something right

365
00:31:47,967 --> 00:31:50,767
in that ballpark. And then I know you mentioned...

366
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:55,400
you may. You don't have plans yet for

367
00:31:57,067 --> 00:31:59,333
that back parcel up front onto central park, but for mr.

368
00:32:01,233 --> 00:32:04,200
shorkey, if they do combine those three parcels and then decide to build,

369
00:32:05,967 --> 00:32:08,900
I see it's sort of faintly the setbacks are listed in that back part there.

370
00:32:11,033 --> 00:32:15,033
would that be considered like one development and the total square footage would need

371
00:32:16,133 --> 00:32:20,000
to be considered for usage, or is it? Two buildings, one parcel.

372
00:32:21,133 --> 00:32:25,000
combining those parcels, would that put any constraints on what could be developed? Right.

373
00:32:26,633 --> 00:32:30,100
so if they're going to move parcel lines around, they can go to three to two.

374
00:32:31,533 --> 00:32:34,333
if you went to three to two, then it would save them the land division in the future.

375
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:39,433
and the setbacks would be calculated from the one of the

376
00:32:40,667 --> 00:32:44,100
setbacks that you're seeing on there is the required 100-foot

377
00:32:46,233 --> 00:32:48,967
setback. From residential, that's a

378
00:32:50,533 --> 00:32:53,567
constraint that's inherent to the c2 zone.

379
00:32:54,833 --> 00:32:58,333
that's still going to be there, but other than that...

380
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,333
and my apologies, you did bring up a good point. We do intend to split this into

381
00:33:05,733 --> 00:33:08,500
two parcels and not one parcel. The grand river and the central park.

382
00:33:09,967 --> 00:33:13,833
exactly. That makes sense. But it's a simple administrative process

383
00:33:15,133 --> 00:33:18,633
to do that. Okay. But the detention area would span across the two parcels

384
00:33:19,933 --> 00:33:21,267
right now combined no no no that would stay fully

385
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,000
on our parcel but we are building a little extra into our detention pond

386
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,067
for a possible for whatever that land might be at some point commissioner oh

387
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,133
yeah a number of small things so um you have here everwood lane um is that the same as elmwood road

388
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,633
on the parcel viewer because I just want to make sure that, um...

389
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,100
where are you? North.

390
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:50,200
um, so if you, um, if you zoom

391
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:54,300
out a little bit, it's,

392
00:34:00,067 --> 00:34:03,733
um... And if you turn on the, um... Yeah, let me get rid

393
00:34:05,033 --> 00:34:08,800
of the... Because it looks

394
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:10,867
like the offshoot from woodland way is...

395
00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:18,467
that's... Okay, yes, yes, thank you. Yeah, so there's elmwood road.

396
00:34:19,633 --> 00:34:23,467
okay, there's elmwood road. Right. Okay, and in the site plan, it's called everwood.

397
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:28,133
everwood. You've got everwood. Okay. Not a big thing.

398
00:34:29,233 --> 00:34:32,967
I just wanted to make sure that those are the same thing. Yeah, simple fix. Another thing is, so

399
00:34:34,467 --> 00:34:37,500
on the connection to grand river, hamilton road is, like, directly across

400
00:34:38,767 --> 00:34:41,600
from your entrance. Are you expecting people to come from hamilton road and

401
00:34:43,133 --> 00:34:47,067
go straight across? Grand river and access your property? So I'm not too familiar

402
00:34:48,733 --> 00:34:51,800
with that, but that is exactly where mdot required the one entrance we were permitted.

403
00:34:53,133 --> 00:34:56,033
that was just a hard, you get it here and that's take it or leave it.

404
00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:00,267
right. Now, my question was concerning because right now the entrance

405
00:35:01,667 --> 00:35:04,533
from grand river, you don't have like a large triangular median

406
00:35:05,967 --> 00:35:09,967
to like force right turns as the only access. I'm just worried that without that, people from

407
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:14,067
hamilton may try to like just beeline across

408
00:35:15,967 --> 00:35:19,767
grand river. They would be crazier than I am.

409
00:35:21,467 --> 00:35:24,733
so just to clarify, we are permitted a left turn into the site as well from

410
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,200
grand river. And that's why it's not completely like a pork chop shape

411
00:35:31,267 --> 00:35:34,433
like you see some. Okay, right. You've got a left turn movement here.

412
00:35:35,367 --> 00:35:38,567
exactly. Okay. From the center turn. Exactly.

413
00:35:39,767 --> 00:35:43,000
okay. And then kind of the last question I had is, can you speak to why you need

414
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,267
10, or sorry, yeah, 10 pumps instead of... 16.

415
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,433
yeah, sorry, 16. Eight pumps, 16 stations instead of 10.

416
00:35:53,867 --> 00:35:57,233
so just based on market research that we've done from other...

417
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,033
from our other stations. You know, I work inside each of the locations every day. I'm in boots

418
00:36:03,067 --> 00:36:06,367
on the ground. I look out the window. I see how many vehicles are fueling.

419
00:36:07,533 --> 00:36:11,400
you guys have a great community here. I think this is going to be a busy location for us.

420
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:15,433
I think anything less than 16 fueling stations would be underserved and really detract

421
00:36:17,133 --> 00:36:20,133
from the economic benefit of putting a site here. Thank you.

422
00:36:21,967 --> 00:36:24,400
what's the economic benefit for putting the site here?

423
00:36:26,733 --> 00:36:30,433
just because it's good, I believe it's going to be a good location.

424
00:36:32,633 --> 00:36:36,267
I think the community is going to benefit from it. I think a lot of people

425
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,467
like our services. We provide a clean, bright, well-kept establishment,

426
00:36:42,333 --> 00:36:45,300
the best landscaping, the best facilities. I think your community would

427
00:36:49,033 --> 00:36:52,833
embrace it. I think there's a reason why there's nobody here not

428
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,367
supporting or showing. I intend to come back to that question. One of the benefits that the

429
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,967
township does see in this, and I think I noted in the staff report,

430
00:37:05,867 --> 00:37:09,267
this is the first gas station on the north side of grand river between williamston and

431
00:37:10,667 --> 00:37:13,733
east lansing. So at the moment,

432
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,267
if you're traveling west on grand river and you need to stop for gas, every one of

433
00:37:19,533 --> 00:37:23,400
those movements is a left turn. We see it as a tremendous benefit

434
00:37:24,833 --> 00:37:27,667
for travelers that they're going to be able to have a north side access and make a

435
00:37:29,233 --> 00:37:32,167
simple right turn into something. I don't want to get

436
00:37:33,267 --> 00:37:36,533
into specifics. They're not the only ones thinking about this. They're just the first one

437
00:37:37,833 --> 00:37:38,933
through the door. So, mr.

438
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,233
strick, I have one. This is probably better for you because this goes back

439
00:37:47,667 --> 00:37:50,667
to what I'm going to call the notice provision you kind of mentioned. So you noticed...

440
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:55,600
grand reserve by probably noticing the management company, right? Because that's an apartment

441
00:37:56,900 --> 00:38:00,433
complex. I sent it to their main office on site. On site.

442
00:38:02,333 --> 00:38:05,067
oh, right. So their office on site.

443
00:38:07,567 --> 00:38:11,233
oh, yeah. Were there any other residences, homes, things that were within that

444
00:38:12,267 --> 00:38:14,600
300 foot? How about this? Let me try this another way.

445
00:38:22,833 --> 00:38:26,200
how many letters did you send out? Offhand in the... Wall to 15.

446
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,667
yeah. 300 feet out. You can see that that's one,

447
00:38:31,567 --> 00:38:31,567
that's one, two, three, you

448
00:38:35,833 --> 00:38:38,567
know, it's sparrow, drain commission.

449
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:42,033
yeah. Yeah.

450
00:38:45,233 --> 00:38:49,033
and then of course the public notice. The public. Yes.

451
00:38:51,333 --> 00:38:55,167
yeah. Yeah. I grant that.

452
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,133
it's. It sounds like you fully complied with the notice requirement,

453
00:39:01,367 --> 00:39:04,600
but I was just thinking a little bit like, yes, I notice. When you put something

454
00:39:07,333 --> 00:39:10,933
in a department complex, you put it in a place where you expect residents to go.

455
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:16,300
it's not an individual notice to each resident. Right.

456
00:39:20,067 --> 00:39:23,733
and there really is no other truly residential area. No. Okay. Commissioner mcconnell.

457
00:39:24,867 --> 00:39:28,567
my first question to the applicant was poorly phrased. Planner shirky, could you pull up the site plan again,

458
00:39:29,433 --> 00:39:33,133
please? I'll pull it up. It's old, but it's okay. I think it'll still work. Okay.

459
00:39:34,167 --> 00:39:35,767
kind of zoom in on kind of the main building site that shows

460
00:39:40,233 --> 00:39:43,500
the entrances and exits. Zoom out just a little bit more, please.

461
00:39:47,533 --> 00:39:50,400
okay. You or the applicant could help

462
00:39:51,867 --> 00:39:54,800
us understand how a car comes in southbound on grand river, or westbound on grand river,

463
00:39:56,333 --> 00:39:58,100
and gets gas and then goes through or goes through the

464
00:40:00,367 --> 00:40:02,633
drive-thru. And how it then leaves that

465
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:08,667
would really help I think because this is small and I think I understand it but I don't.

466
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,000
so everything on our site is tailgater sizes I like to say these are not 24 foot wide dual way dual traffic

467
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,900
everything on the site is designed to be big and comfortable and

468
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,733
spacious there's plenty of room to turn around everywhere you look most drive

469
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,167
aisles on commercial developments are 24 feet they try and pack

470
00:40:30,333 --> 00:40:33,833
everything in there so tight and and save space. That's not the way this site is designed.

471
00:40:34,933 --> 00:40:37,867
this site is designed spaciously, and I don't think it's too much space.

472
00:40:39,467 --> 00:40:42,733
it's just the right amount. If I might interrupt you. Yep.

473
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,867
if I'm coming down this map, coming into east lansing or into meridian township, and I

474
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,100
turn right off of grand river and go to the drive-thru,

475
00:40:56,733 --> 00:41:00,233
can you? I think I see like six cars stacked at the drive-thru.

476
00:41:02,167 --> 00:41:05,933
is that correct? And then there's a service station that shows one car,

477
00:41:07,233 --> 00:41:10,533
and then there's a pass-through for people who aren't using the drive-through,

478
00:41:11,933 --> 00:41:15,867
who are just leaving the site. Am I understanding that correctly? Sorry, I'm having a little

479
00:41:16,967 --> 00:41:20,200
trouble following where you were going with that. Can I? Yeah.

480
00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:24,667
I think you're reading it right. So you come in and you get your gas, right?

481
00:41:25,967 --> 00:41:29,467
you're going to come around this side of the building, so this would be the east side

482
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,333
of the building. You'd get in line here. And then you see this... I think that's actually the

483
00:41:35,367 --> 00:41:38,667
exit. No. Okay, sorry. This is your pickup.

484
00:41:39,933 --> 00:41:43,400
so you come here... This is drive-through stacking space. Right.

485
00:41:44,467 --> 00:41:47,833
right there. That's where they're stacking, waiting for their... Well, no,

486
00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:51,700
this is landscaping. This is the building.

487
00:41:53,167 --> 00:41:56,767
okay, that's the pickup right there. It is a dual drive-through, just like mcdonald's has,

488
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,800
where you can order from two different points. Does that help? Thank you very much.

489
00:42:02,967 --> 00:42:06,267
yeah. Because that makes so much more sense for how you would then leave the site.

490
00:42:07,333 --> 00:42:10,867
if I had to go in the other way, you'd be driving in circles. No, that makes thank you.

491
00:42:16,967 --> 00:42:20,500
vice chairman curtis? Yeah, so if I'm traveling east on grand river, what is the

492
00:42:22,833 --> 00:42:26,133
best way to enter? You can turn right in or you can turn left in

493
00:42:27,467 --> 00:42:30,767
from the center lane. Right. But the way that, so the

494
00:42:31,967 --> 00:42:34,367
entrance, because you got the exit lane that's cut where

495
00:42:36,067 --> 00:42:39,067
you're leaving, you're forced to make a right turn.

496
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,033
so this right here, if you can see the cursor,

497
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:49,500
is the exit onto grand river. Right.

498
00:42:50,667 --> 00:42:54,500
and then if you were coming east along grand river, heading up this way, you can turn left in here, same as somebody

499
00:42:56,467 --> 00:42:59,400
turning right. Okay.

500
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:06,100
and that's exactly what I was looking at. I was just making sure that the way that you're traveling west

501
00:43:07,233 --> 00:43:10,533
and you're turning right, that that's not just for the people turning right.

502
00:43:12,933 --> 00:43:16,600
you're turning left. You need to have, is that going to be big enough for folks to turn left?

503
00:43:18,567 --> 00:43:21,567
it is. Not at the same time, obviously.

504
00:43:22,667 --> 00:43:25,833
you've got to wait your turn. But the reason I'm asking that question is because, and I know you all don't have anything

505
00:43:27,033 --> 00:43:29,800
to do with this, but like the bank of america site. That's awkward when you're

506
00:43:31,333 --> 00:43:34,633
trying to turn in left. Yep. And so that's what I was

507
00:43:35,967 --> 00:43:39,333
asking, is that awkwardness is going to be there?

508
00:43:40,667 --> 00:43:43,600
I don't know if bank of america, you can turn left in there. Yeah, I don't think it's

509
00:43:44,767 --> 00:43:47,767
allowed at bank of america. Yeah, well, allowed versus done are two different things. Right.

510
00:43:48,867 --> 00:43:52,833
I may have done that today. It's traffic. I mean, when people drive going traveling west, east,

511
00:43:56,433 --> 00:44:00,200
am I saying that right? Yeah, traveling east on grand river.

512
00:44:01,433 --> 00:44:05,167
in to bank of america, I gotta go to the bank. And then you gotta turn left. I mean that, you know, I've done it.

513
00:44:06,067 --> 00:44:09,433
so, um... I hope mr. Shurkey you do not release

514
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:13,833
these videos to the meridian township police department. The police chief is not

515
00:44:14,933 --> 00:44:18,267
watching. Because you're stuck. You're like, okay, left turn,

516
00:44:19,733 --> 00:44:22,700
you're in the center lane. Anyway, you answered my question.

517
00:44:23,767 --> 00:44:23,767
thank you.

518
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:30,467
I watch people turn left out of meyer on a rapid rate.

519
00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:37,167
I have another question. Commissioner brock. For the, can you, so you're,

520
00:44:40,467 --> 00:44:43,300
I'm concerned about the parking and the, that you want to have,

521
00:44:45,667 --> 00:44:48,200
that this is going to be a spacious space. And the reason is not because I

522
00:44:50,167 --> 00:44:52,067
think, I don't want to dictate what is

523
00:44:54,433 --> 00:44:57,667
on this spot, but because some of the goals in our master plan are to

524
00:44:59,967 --> 00:45:02,767
maintain our environment here locally and so the more parking

525
00:45:05,767 --> 00:45:07,867
lots we have, that leads to more runoff from asphalt.

526
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:13,467
and so my goal is to try and reduce parking by as much as possible.

527
00:45:15,733 --> 00:45:19,567
so this next question is, for the other tailgaters that you have around the lansing area,

528
00:45:21,333 --> 00:45:24,100
what is the utilization of the parking lots that you have?

529
00:45:26,533 --> 00:45:28,900
so dewitt is 106. Holt has 101.

530
00:45:31,667 --> 00:45:34,400
delta township has 65, but delta township also has a much

531
00:45:36,167 --> 00:45:39,167
larger parking lot with impervious surfaces. The okemos location I didn't

532
00:45:40,267 --> 00:45:44,033
even count just because it shares a lot with culver's, and that would be a lot harder

533
00:45:46,167 --> 00:45:49,233
to judge off of. But those three sites are just a restaurant user,

534
00:45:50,567 --> 00:45:52,600
a tailgaters gas station, and that's why I included those.

535
00:45:55,167 --> 00:45:58,633
and so we are proposing 80 here, and I believe that's justified because this is a

536
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,267
much busier corridor. I think that this location will

537
00:46:05,833 --> 00:46:07,633
generate more traffic than those other ones.

538
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,600
yeah, so there may be more traffic than the other ones, but my question, though,

539
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,567
is what's your utilization of the parking at the other locations?

540
00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:23,033
so how often is that parking lot actually full to the maximum capacity?

541
00:46:24,733 --> 00:46:28,500
so I feel regularly enough to dictate putting in 80 spots. Asphalt's expensive.

542
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,167
it's expensive to store the water that that impervious surface generates.

543
00:46:35,767 --> 00:46:38,667
I don't want to put in any more parking spots than I need. That's why I suggest 80.

544
00:46:39,933 --> 00:46:42,200
it is expensive, though. Yes?

545
00:46:45,367 --> 00:46:45,367
my name is emily johnson.

546
00:46:49,733 --> 00:46:53,300
come on out here. You've got to say your address. My name is emily johnson.

547
00:46:54,467 --> 00:46:58,400
I'm also with tailgaters. I've worked at tailgaters for 10 years, and I've worked at every single location.

548
00:46:59,967 --> 00:47:03,633
I can tell you very confidently that 80 spaces will be utilized, hands down.

549
00:47:05,367 --> 00:47:08,300
on a busy saturday, we can employ between 15 and 20 people, peak hours.

550
00:47:10,867 --> 00:47:12,467
so that's just employee. That's not even customer.

551
00:47:15,333 --> 00:47:18,600
and on top of that, if you come for breakfast, I don't know if any of you have ever come

552
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:23,633
for breakfast to any of our locations on a weekend. They're busy.

553
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,000
every spot is full. Every gas pump is full. The parking is justified, I can promise you.

554
00:47:29,033 --> 00:47:32,600
if not, we could even benefit from more. That's my take on it. Can I, I know this is not

555
00:47:34,367 --> 00:47:38,300
relevant, sorry I'm not a good public speaker. You're doing great. Thank you.

556
00:47:39,833 --> 00:47:43,267
can I touch on the benefit to the community that was asked a little bit?

557
00:47:45,633 --> 00:47:48,400
so I'm not from here, but I lived at hamilton trace for four years.

558
00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:52,200
I went to college here too in east lansing. I'm a big bike rider.

559
00:47:56,667 --> 00:48:00,200
I know what it's like to be a college student, and I think there's a lot

560
00:48:02,367 --> 00:48:06,267
of college students in the area. When I lived there, there's gas stations, but there's nothing like a

561
00:48:07,167 --> 00:48:11,167
tailgaters. There's nothing like going to a tailgaters, being able to find your lunch, have a place

562
00:48:12,267 --> 00:48:14,900
to do your homework, get a coffee, get a job. And for people that live at

563
00:48:16,433 --> 00:48:19,700
grand reserve, I kind of think back to my childhood. I used to go on bike rides

564
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,367
to go get ice cream with my mom. I see people doing that with grand reserve.

565
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,767
I can totally see families saying, hey, let's get on our bikes, let's go to tailgaters

566
00:48:30,033 --> 00:48:33,400
for a special treat tonight. Let's do that. And I see the huge benefit to a community here.

567
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:37,267
you know, we're more than just a gas station. We're big family people,

568
00:48:38,767 --> 00:48:41,533
too. Jeff got into this as a result of his father, who's been

569
00:48:42,933 --> 00:48:46,833
in the business even longer. We're really family-operated. Every single store is operated by a family member.

570
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,833
we're obviously out of family members at this point.

571
00:48:54,167 --> 00:48:56,300
but him and I still go to every store.

572
00:48:58,633 --> 00:49:01,533
maddie over here, she's worked with us for just as long. We hired her as a high school

573
00:49:02,933 --> 00:49:06,733
student, and we would love to hire more high school students. It's a great employment opportunity for a lot

574
00:49:07,767 --> 00:49:11,067
of people in the area. I mean, especially for high school kids

575
00:49:12,467 --> 00:49:15,333
in this area, college kids in this area, who can take the bus, who can walk

576
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:20,267
from their house at their apartment nearby, or ride their bike from grand reserve.

577
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,133
I see a lot of benefit here for a lot of people.

578
00:49:25,867 --> 00:49:28,300
that's my two cents. Commissioner neumann? Yeah, two questions.

579
00:49:30,133 --> 00:49:33,200
so I don't see any additional signage listed on your site plan. Are you going

580
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,200
to only have signage attached to the building, especially the fueling canopy, I presume?

581
00:49:39,967 --> 00:49:42,600
there will be signage on the building, the fuel canopy, and then there should

582
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,567
be a monument sign proposed, and that might just not be shown on your, if you look

583
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:52,233
on the 11 by 14 that you were handed. You can see a tiny little dot

584
00:49:53,933 --> 00:49:57,067
right in the front of the site. That's more visible and called out on other site plans that

585
00:49:58,100 --> 00:50:01,433
are probably not in your packet, but you've got access to them.

586
00:50:02,833 --> 00:50:06,000
it's there. The other question is, is there any electric vehicle charging

587
00:50:07,167 --> 00:50:10,833
at any of your tailgater locations? Is that something you would consider?

588
00:50:11,933 --> 00:50:15,600
so not at this point, but we do have conduit installed underneath the concrete for

589
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,800
future use should the need ever arise. Right now we just haven't seen the benefit or the payoff,

590
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:26,233
so we haven't done it yet, but we do have the ability at some of the locations to install that.

591
00:50:27,433 --> 00:50:30,667
yeah, because if people are coming there for meals, I can imagine that there might be demand for that,

592
00:50:31,833 --> 00:50:34,100
but yeah that's something yep, you're right on. Do you intend

593
00:50:35,867 --> 00:50:38,333
to put that same, I'm going to call it an outlet, an outlet to build out

594
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:42,733
at the site? You said you mentioned having the evs.

595
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:47,767
you have evability at other sites, right? Is that what you were saying?

596
00:50:49,533 --> 00:50:53,267
but you need to build it out to get there. Exactly. We have to install the

597
00:50:54,367 --> 00:50:57,367
infrastructure underground. We've got extra capacity on our transformer and things of that nature.

598
00:50:58,500 --> 00:51:02,267
but, no, we have not actually pulled the trigger on any infrastructure yet. Okay.

599
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:06,133
same intent here, or are you saying this is... Same intent here.

600
00:51:07,633 --> 00:51:10,333
we haven't seen the value in installing it just yet. Yeah, yeah.

601
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:15,033
but we're always evaluating and not opposed to it in any way. Okay.

602
00:51:18,067 --> 00:51:20,933
commissioner mcconnell? Please come back and talk more

603
00:51:22,467 --> 00:51:25,200
about bike racks. Seriously, more of a suggestion.

604
00:51:27,867 --> 00:51:30,267
I very much see an uptick in my own neighborhood.

605
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:34,600
a mile away in kids and parents riding bikes.

606
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:41,267
more and more and more electric. So as you build out that infrastructure,

607
00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:45,500
probably a good idea to think about where they'll put those vehicles when they get there.

608
00:51:47,167 --> 00:51:50,667
it's getting people out and about, and that's great. Yeah, brian brought that up

609
00:51:51,833 --> 00:51:55,400
right before the meeting, and we agreed to install eight bike racks instead

610
00:51:56,833 --> 00:52:00,200
of whatever's on the plan at six. Fantastic.

611
00:52:04,333 --> 00:52:07,967
two for me, ms. Johnson was it? That was a great story. So keep your public speaking

612
00:52:09,133 --> 00:52:12,167
up. You had me at the biking to get ice cream.

613
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,333
I think that's a wonderful way to do it. And then I don't know if mr.

614
00:52:17,633 --> 00:52:20,800
shirky told you, sir, I get big on restaurants. So you say a national

615
00:52:23,333 --> 00:52:24,967
recognizable restaurant, keep it in the back

616
00:52:30,967 --> 00:52:34,333
of your head, maybe something local, god help us. I say that not for you

617
00:52:35,367 --> 00:52:38,700
to answer, but I'm just putting it out there. You really want to see jeff's

618
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:43,300
chicken shack? We have enough chicken shacks. If I'm opening something, it's going to be like a ci

619
00:52:44,333 --> 00:52:47,500
bowls because I think there's a market for that. But not, you know, no.

620
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,367
I keep asking for better restaurants. So any other questions,

621
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:58,667
comments from the commissioners? I have one.

622
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,567
commissioner snyder. So the only sign that you mentioned,

623
00:53:03,967 --> 00:53:07,767
the only monument sign is off of grand river, no additional signage off of central park to direct people in

624
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,633
off that entrance? Good point, yes. We would be proposing one somewhere along central park as

625
00:53:13,933 --> 00:53:17,600
well, as long as that's, I'd have to check with the sign folks, but yeah.

626
00:53:18,967 --> 00:53:22,567
all the signage, of course, would be finalized during the site plan review, but it's a good question,

627
00:53:23,733 --> 00:53:27,133
something to keep in mind. Obviously it makes sense, you know, direct people off of central park.

628
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:31,933
central park rather than turn on the grand river to find it. Now that you put the idea

629
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:35,800
in my head, the other place I would crave would be to have a sonic.

630
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,600
of all things. I really want a cherry limeade in the worst way, like daily.

631
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,767
should we all put in our suggestions? Yes. And then vote.

632
00:53:46,933 --> 00:53:50,733
restaurants from a hat, we'll just put them in there and we'll pull. Sir, I thank you for your time

633
00:53:51,767 --> 00:53:55,433
and answering the commissioner's questions. And I understand uh this is just the initial public hearing

634
00:53:56,533 --> 00:53:59,300
and we have to bring this back at the next meeting sounds good I I appreciate everything and

635
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,200
uh yeah I think you'll be pleased with the development in particular you uh jeff mr uh

636
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,733
bomb back I think I think we're we will not disappoint you you will not disappoint me and I

637
00:54:09,700 --> 00:54:13,200
hope this uh yeah that's all I want to say thanks, brian. Of course.

638
00:54:14,467 --> 00:54:16,933
you'll be pleased. Okay.

639
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,233
is that a hint? Can you get a limeade?

640
00:54:24,933 --> 00:54:28,433
you going on the way here every day? I'm all about cherry limeades.

641
00:54:30,367 --> 00:54:33,967
yeah, they got one in lansing, right? They got the sonic in lansing, didn't they?

642
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,867
no? No. I thought there was one in lansing. No, there isn't.

643
00:54:39,833 --> 00:54:43,167
oh, alright. Shows you what I know. Um, moving on. Typically, you give staff some

644
00:54:44,133 --> 00:54:46,467
direction. You don't make a formal vote. Oh, yes, that's right.

645
00:54:48,267 --> 00:54:51,800
um, so this would be, this is what we call a soft, or a... Straw bowl.

646
00:54:53,100 --> 00:54:57,000
straw bowl. Straw bowl. All right, so, because I do have to write a resolution

647
00:54:57,933 --> 00:55:01,667
for your next meeting. So, a straw poll for those commissioners that would be voting to approve the special

648
00:55:03,033 --> 00:55:03,033
use permit for 260.

649
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,367
have you been tailgaters? No. Strawpole, sorry. Are we putting yes? Yes.

650
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:15,167
yes. Fine. I'm not going to say, you know,

651
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,700
planning commission indicated by strawpole. Yeah. Yeah, and I'll write a

652
00:55:21,667 --> 00:55:24,800
resolution. That's all the minutes will say. I'm still learning this job,

653
00:55:25,767 --> 00:55:28,700
mr. Scherke. Yeah, that's okay. That's why I'm here.

654
00:55:29,867 --> 00:55:32,767
with that we can move to... You guys don't have to. We welcome you

655
00:55:35,133 --> 00:55:38,833
but you don't have to. But thank you. We really appreciate it.

656
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,333
thank you. And with that we can move to b under public hearing. I'll be in touch.

657
00:55:45,167 --> 00:55:47,433
za26002, chicken. Unless you want to talk about chicken ordinances.

658
00:55:49,700 --> 00:55:49,700
okay.

659
00:55:56,833 --> 00:56:00,767
this is pretty self-explanatory. There's no changes from the

660
00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:04,833
draft. I do have some numbers I want to share,

661
00:56:06,700 --> 00:56:07,933
though. I was curious about the effect

662
00:56:10,933 --> 00:56:14,100
of adding districts. So we currently allow backyard

663
00:56:16,667 --> 00:56:19,100
chickens in our raaa, raa, and ra zones.

664
00:56:22,167 --> 00:56:25,933
that's on the books, okay? We currently have roughly 08,770 parcels that our

665
00:56:30,333 --> 00:56:33,700
ordinance applies to. That they're eligible to apply

666
00:56:38,567 --> 00:56:41,800
for backyard chickens. Note that that's over half our parcels

667
00:56:43,167 --> 00:56:46,933
in our township. Those don't change. If this passes in its form,

668
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:53,100
you'd be adding the rb and the rx districts. That's another 1,800 or so

669
00:56:54,367 --> 00:56:54,367
parcels.

670
00:56:59,200 --> 00:56:59,200
so you'd go from 87.7 to

671
00:57:09,700 --> 00:57:12,933
10.6. Again, that's not, I thought that would be interesting to see, you know,

672
00:57:14,100 --> 00:57:15,367
is this a lot of effect, is this not a lot of effect?

673
00:57:18,967 --> 00:57:22,333
rough math, is that 15, 17% somewhere in there? What?

674
00:57:24,167 --> 00:57:26,967
the expansion. So you're talking about adding 800 to 8700.

675
00:57:28,767 --> 00:57:32,467
I'm doing some... It's about 15 to 18%. Yeah.

676
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,033
using parcels, though, is the math a little difficult,

677
00:57:38,567 --> 00:57:41,333
though, because they're different sizes. So it's probably maybe more

678
00:57:43,700 --> 00:57:45,900
interesting to see what the actual space ramifications are.

679
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,633
the 800 number was 1,000 acres, and then this additional group

680
00:57:59,467 --> 00:58:01,500
raised that 1,000 acres to 02,000 acres.

681
00:58:03,767 --> 00:58:07,300
I'm not saying that is the outcome. They can only put chicken per acre.

682
00:58:08,533 --> 00:58:11,967
this was a quick and easy calculation. Chicken per acre? I hear what you're saying,

683
00:58:13,233 --> 00:58:15,233
but... Yes, the math is a lot harder.

684
00:58:22,133 --> 00:58:22,133
I would turn it over to our gis

685
00:58:30,367 --> 00:58:33,733
professional and ask them to do some kind of analysis at that point, but this was a

686
00:58:35,867 --> 00:58:37,567
quick and easy question. Mr.

687
00:58:41,267 --> 00:58:43,867
cherky, as a rb and rx on a comparative density

688
00:58:45,533 --> 00:58:47,500
to raa and ra, are rb and rx more dense or less dense?

689
00:58:49,567 --> 00:58:53,467
they are more dense. More than. Single family in both

690
00:58:54,867 --> 00:58:57,633
of those districts is 8,000 square feet. The ra is the closest.

691
00:58:59,633 --> 00:59:02,600
the minimum lot size in the ra district is 10,000 square feet,

692
00:59:03,967 --> 00:59:07,700
and then it goes up from there. Okay.

693
00:59:08,967 --> 00:59:12,600
go ahead. Sorry. Nope. Didn't mean to interrupt you.

694
00:59:14,733 --> 00:59:14,733
so the rv district,

695
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,667
is that what we were proposing for the... Large area that was just north

696
00:59:25,633 --> 00:59:28,900
of the tailgaters property that we just looked at, or north and east. The I development?

697
00:59:29,867 --> 00:59:33,133
the I development. We were proposing that that was going to be an rv district. No, that was a multifamily

698
00:59:34,333 --> 00:59:34,333
district.

699
00:59:41,267 --> 00:59:44,300
so it's less dense than that. Well, it's more dense because it's multifamily.

700
00:59:45,567 --> 00:59:48,267
it's multifamily. Yeah, it's rd multifamily, right?

701
00:59:49,633 --> 00:59:52,400
yeah, that I development on central park development, that was a multifamily density.

702
00:59:53,933 --> 00:59:57,533
this is not including multifamily districts. The property that is already...

703
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,133
...developed adjacent to the multifamily proposal,

704
01:00:07,933 --> 01:00:09,667
that's zoned rb, is that correct?

705
01:00:12,467 --> 01:00:12,467
that is zoned...

706
01:00:18,467 --> 01:00:21,500
this is a quiz. Well, that is zoned ra. Ra, okay.

707
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,367
yeah, so already allowed there. Yes, yes. And, I mean, for me here, those

708
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,367
houses look pretty close together. Yeah.

709
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,400
you'd be allowing... Chickens in a on a smaller lot than that yeah yeah that was

710
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,300
partially the same the same standards apply though right

711
01:00:49,700 --> 01:00:52,667
you have 10 foot side setbacks for chicken coops and they got you know you're limited

712
01:00:54,233 --> 01:00:57,467
to four and they've got to be enclosed and all of the things uh one

713
01:00:59,100 --> 01:01:02,000
of the points that was raised at our last conversation is if the standard thank you.

714
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,867
if they can meet the standards, you know, even if it's a smaller lot,

715
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:12,500
you know, we have a standard in place. Oh, so like even if the zoning allows it,

716
01:01:13,733 --> 01:01:17,267
can you practically do it on your... Yeah, right. If you can't meet that 10-foot

717
01:01:19,867 --> 01:01:23,200
setback, then we're not going to give you the permit. I do want to point out,

718
01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:28,333
at the beginning of this conversation, we've since revamped our website.

719
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,833
you I did come across, you know, we do permit, we do have a permit.

720
01:01:36,467 --> 01:01:39,633
we have a permit that has to be sent in. So somewhere we must have a

721
01:01:40,700 --> 01:01:43,800
record of how many legal chickens we have in the township.

722
01:01:45,067 --> 01:01:48,933
this is not a conversation I've had in a long time. Maybe more extremely hungry in legal chickens.

723
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,367
but this just, but you're not going to get

724
01:01:54,833 --> 01:01:58,600
your permit if you can't meet the setbacks. You're not going to get the permit if you can't put them

725
01:01:59,933 --> 01:02:03,300
in a, whatever other restrictions there are. You're not going to get a

726
01:02:04,467 --> 01:02:07,700
permit if your homeowners association doesn't allow it. That is correct.

727
01:02:08,933 --> 01:02:12,467
my question is, how many homeowners associations even allow chickens?

728
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:16,267
I don't have any idea. I'm guessing not many. I would guess that,

729
01:02:17,933 --> 01:02:21,233
but I do not know. It seems like the increase is marginal

730
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,900
at best. In terms of going from 8,000, whatever, 100, to 10,000,

731
01:02:28,133 --> 01:02:32,100
whatever. I kind of feel that. I mean... This is a good example.

732
01:02:33,467 --> 01:02:37,367
yes, technically the zoning says it's allowed. I would suspect they've got a homeowner association that

733
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,633
says, no, you're not, and that would trump. Anyway.

734
01:02:44,533 --> 01:02:46,467
commissioner shuspert. The communication that you

735
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,567
handed out today seems to take a different interpretation

736
01:02:53,467 --> 01:02:55,867
of the number of restrictions than I did as we were

737
01:02:57,533 --> 01:03:01,367
discussing this, saying that you know, it only counts chickens

738
01:03:02,867 --> 01:03:06,267
of egg-laying age, and therefore if they got too old to lay eggs, then you could

739
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,600
have as many as you wanted, and they wouldn't count. That's not going to happen.

740
01:03:12,633 --> 01:03:15,600
I didn't believe so. There's a minimum age we count them, and then we continue

741
01:03:16,767 --> 01:03:20,367
to count them. Do you feel that there's any need to clarify that? No.

742
01:03:21,533 --> 01:03:24,900
so an egg-laying age, I mean, I didn't take it that way, and as long as the permitting people are not taking it that

743
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,167
way, or the, you know. Code compliance people. I feel very confident that we

744
01:03:30,467 --> 01:03:33,733
understand that once they're... That instrument needs for that person. Yeah.

745
01:03:34,833 --> 01:03:38,567
that's not what was intended. No. Thank you. Here's where I personally get

746
01:03:39,667 --> 01:03:43,233
caught because, as I've mentioned, I just left the presidency of my hoa board,

747
01:03:44,333 --> 01:03:46,500
but I consistently pointed to ordinances trumping hoa board rules.

748
01:03:49,367 --> 01:03:52,567
if we were going to go forward with this, I know this is probably late

749
01:03:53,767 --> 01:03:57,567
in the process, but I would have something that just says, you know...

750
01:03:58,533 --> 01:04:02,033
this ordinance is subservient to any hoa. Like, put it out there specifically.

751
01:04:03,100 --> 01:04:05,200
I don't need to. It doesn't have to say it, because it just is.

752
01:04:07,333 --> 01:04:11,333
and I hesitate to put something like that in black and white in an ordinance.

753
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,667
I don't want to get the wrong impression, you know,

754
01:04:17,300 --> 01:04:20,000
because if our ordinance is more restrictive, then, you know.

755
01:04:21,333 --> 01:04:24,533
because it's like, I'm just thinking somebody files for their chicken permit,

756
01:04:25,533 --> 01:04:28,500
they get... Their permit for the chicken permit. They walk to their hoa and they

757
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,867
say, hey, I'm putting chickens in. I've already got my ordinance

758
01:04:33,900 --> 01:04:37,400
permit. Our bylaws for where I live do not specifically prohibit chicken coops.

759
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:42,300
they do have regulations around structures. One of the suggestions at the very beginning

760
01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:46,567
of this conversation is, should there be a requirement that if you live in an hoa that your

761
01:04:47,867 --> 01:04:50,767
application come with a letter, email, or some kind of communication

762
01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:53,933
from your hoa saying it's okay? And you didn't want

763
01:04:56,500 --> 01:04:58,100
to do that. That seemed okay,

764
01:05:00,633 --> 01:05:04,167
not a problem. We don't do this in a vacuum.

765
01:05:05,667 --> 01:05:08,500
vacuum, right? So we're going to look at the address that you're

766
01:05:09,733 --> 01:05:13,167
going to put on your application, and we'll tell you, you're going to have

767
01:05:14,333 --> 01:05:18,067
to go check with your hoa, but here you, you know. In that case, I do feel like it

768
01:05:19,300 --> 01:05:21,567
is not the township's responsibility

769
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:27,400
to enforce hoa policy. Correct. Agreed. You would get your permit

770
01:05:28,500 --> 01:05:32,000
because you're legally allowed in the township to have this. If your hoa to which you

771
01:05:33,300 --> 01:05:35,800
subscribed and agreed to their bylaws or their covenants whatever says you can't and

772
01:05:37,367 --> 01:05:39,800
then they're responsible for taking action

773
01:05:41,933 --> 01:05:43,433
against you so I don't feel like we should have

774
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,833
to be understanding the nuances of an hoa no we'll give them a warning to go check their hoa

775
01:05:50,167 --> 01:05:53,033
but we can't hold up a one of our permits over an hoa yeah I mean I think it would be kind

776
01:05:54,300 --> 01:05:58,000
and nice to people who are applying for a permit to say you may also want to check with your

777
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,567
hoa because we have policies that may also apply in addition to the permitting that you need

778
01:06:03,667 --> 01:06:07,133
to do with us. But I don't want the township to be in the business of enforcing it.

779
01:06:08,100 --> 01:06:11,300
no, we are not. We are not. I'm sorry. Don't come out.

780
01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:15,933
no, I like what you did there. Okay, thank you.

781
01:06:17,033 --> 01:06:20,533
commissioner mcconnell. I have always understood the process

782
01:06:21,933 --> 01:06:24,667
of keeping chickens legally to be a matter of notifying the township.

783
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,033
that I am aware of the rules and that I'm going

784
01:06:31,433 --> 01:06:33,300
to abide by them and I sign my name and that is a notice

785
01:06:36,067 --> 01:06:40,000
of registration. I've not heard before that a

786
01:06:41,767 --> 01:06:45,267
permit as such is issued. I'm using a word. My understanding is that when

787
01:06:47,667 --> 01:06:51,200
there's a complaint, right, the code enforcement officer then

788
01:06:52,733 --> 01:06:54,933
says, do you or do you not, did you or did you not notify us?

789
01:06:57,300 --> 01:07:00,933
and if you did, are you actually complying with the rules you signed on to?

790
01:07:02,067 --> 01:07:05,133
right. And if you're not, you can't do this anymore. I'm going to cut a weird thing

791
01:07:06,333 --> 01:07:10,200
because now I'm rethinking again and this is my fault. When you say, when I heard the term permit,

792
01:07:11,500 --> 01:07:14,200
that's one thing. That's the, here. Yeah, let's look at it.

793
01:07:16,533 --> 01:07:19,300
okay. Putting into the test with a

794
01:07:27,233 --> 01:07:29,733
new website. I know right. This is a thing.

795
01:07:31,567 --> 01:07:35,333
it's not like it though. I think I like the way it works and still got the great content.

796
01:07:37,333 --> 01:07:40,867
chicken and rabbit registration application. Okay.

797
01:07:42,633 --> 01:07:45,633
and there you go. See, here's name, address, telephone, email, and then

798
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,633
here's all the things and like commissioner mcconnell was saying, you're going to sign

799
01:07:52,967 --> 01:07:54,700
you've read and understand the regulation sign and date.

800
01:07:58,067 --> 01:08:01,200
but it does specify what zones? Yes. So this would have to be

801
01:08:02,733 --> 01:08:06,400
updated to include the rb and rx. Thank you. Here's the line I'm potentially

802
01:08:07,433 --> 01:08:11,033
drawing here. There is, in my mind, a difference between a permit and a registration process.

803
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,600
because a permit, to me, is an active process by which the township would have

804
01:08:17,233 --> 01:08:17,233
approved a chicken versus a

805
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,033
registration, which is just, I'm telling you I have these and I'm going to comply.

806
01:08:28,300 --> 01:08:31,900
okay, but you're getting to the same place. You're giving us a piece

807
01:08:36,233 --> 01:08:40,167
of paper saying that I'm going to follow these rules. Right. I mean, I'm sorry if I use a different word.

808
01:08:41,633 --> 01:08:45,633
no, it's okay. I admit I'm nitpicking. This isn't a brian. This is a jeff thing.

809
01:08:46,667 --> 01:08:49,600
okay. Because I'm just thinking what would happen in my subdivision if somebody's going

810
01:08:50,700 --> 01:08:54,000
to come back with, if somebody comes in with a permit from the township, that's one

811
01:08:55,067 --> 01:08:58,367
thing, right? I have a permitted thing to do x versus.

812
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:01,100
I registered with the township and then I would agree that the

813
01:09:03,500 --> 01:09:06,667
hoa could take separate action. You still could. You get to the same place.

814
01:09:07,933 --> 01:09:10,067
if the hoa says you can't have chickens in the backyard,

815
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:15,267
I don't care if you got a permit from us or not. A building permit.

816
01:09:16,500 --> 01:09:19,333
sure. You know, you can come in and get a building permit and say,

817
01:09:20,633 --> 01:09:24,600
okay, I'm going to build this garage. Well, no, it's too big. By our rules, you need

818
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:29,500
to make it smaller. And I've seen that happen a lot in my career. Okay.

819
01:09:31,033 --> 01:09:31,033
it's just not a chicken.

820
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:39,133
somehow I think chickens might be more controversial than an oversized garage, but we'll take that

821
01:09:40,467 --> 01:09:43,833
for another day. Any other questions or questions for mr.

822
01:09:45,633 --> 01:09:45,633
sharkey?

823
01:09:50,167 --> 01:09:52,733
did I hear you volunteered to have the gis folks do a per acre calculation?

824
01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:55,700
no, I didn't volunteer. That's what I heard.

825
01:09:59,100 --> 01:10:03,100
mr. Brooks asked for it.

826
01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:06,433
I'm just kidding. So at this point would we be,

827
01:10:08,500 --> 01:10:12,433
so this is unfinished business, theoretically we would finish this business today with a vote.

828
01:10:13,767 --> 01:10:17,100
no, this is a public hearing. Yes. I will come back to the next meeting

829
01:10:18,133 --> 01:10:20,933
with a resolution if that's okay with you. And we can move this forward.

830
01:10:22,900 --> 01:10:24,067
seeing no public comments. With that,

831
01:10:31,300 --> 01:10:33,800
we will close the public hearing at 739.

832
01:10:37,367 --> 01:10:40,433
not sure I ever opened it with a specific time, but we'll do that at 7.39, and

833
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:45,700
then we can move to parking ordinance updates under our insurance business.

834
01:10:48,667 --> 01:10:48,667
okay.

835
01:10:56,967 --> 01:10:58,367
I watched the meeting really close.

836
01:11:01,867 --> 01:11:05,833
I tried to give some information where it seemed like you needed it.

837
01:11:08,033 --> 01:11:09,800
I didn't hear a lot of questions.

838
01:11:12,733 --> 01:11:15,733
I did note this on the thing about the parking maximums.

839
01:11:17,467 --> 01:11:17,467
since our last meeting, I did

840
01:11:21,867 --> 01:11:24,000
attend the dda meeting and they raised these points.

841
01:11:27,267 --> 01:11:30,333
you know, initiating a parking maximum will increase number of variances.

842
01:11:31,633 --> 01:11:34,767
we discussed that. New parking maximum will create several non-conforming uses.

843
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:39,533
we've discussed that. Developers and business people generally know how much traffic

844
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:42,633
to expect. We've discussed that, etc.,

845
01:11:45,100 --> 01:11:47,533
etc. Then I made this point.

846
01:11:50,233 --> 01:11:53,667
we already have a parking maximum for a lot of our developments.

847
01:11:56,433 --> 01:11:59,800
this is not new language. This was in our parking ordinance,

848
01:12:01,133 --> 01:12:04,100
and then it was still in our parking ordinance when we updated our numbers last year.

849
01:12:05,333 --> 01:12:08,033
we have for... What we did update were the

850
01:12:10,233 --> 01:12:13,300
size of the centers. We went from like four or five business centers to two.

851
01:12:14,567 --> 01:12:18,433
that was changed. But the numbers are basically five to five and a half spaces

852
01:12:19,767 --> 01:12:23,200
for 1,000 feet, or for the larger ones, over 25,000 square feet,

853
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,833
which are a special use permit, by the way, four to four and a half spaces per

854
01:12:30,133 --> 01:12:31,633
01,000 square feet. That is why trader joe's had

855
01:12:34,567 --> 01:12:37,333
to get a variant. I am not in a position

856
01:12:43,300 --> 01:12:47,300
to make recommendations to you. However, staff no longer sees a

857
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,333
need for the 20% maximum. We have this mechanism

858
01:12:54,967 --> 01:12:56,667
in our ordinance, and we've got two boards that are not

859
01:12:59,333 --> 01:13:01,600
in favor of it. Having said that, it is your

860
01:13:03,433 --> 01:13:06,367
ordinance, not theirs. I have no other comment

861
01:13:07,667 --> 01:13:10,400
on this ordinance at this time, and I'm open to more questions.

862
01:13:12,833 --> 01:13:15,467
questions for mr. Torky.

863
01:13:16,867 --> 01:13:19,433
commissioner brock. I appreciate all the effort that's been taken and looked

864
01:13:21,100 --> 01:13:24,133
at this, and definitely talking to the dda and cia, and I

865
01:13:26,300 --> 01:13:30,033
appreciate all the work that's gone into it, so thank you.

866
01:13:37,767 --> 01:13:41,433
I'm going to be slightly annoying probably with my comments, but hopefully

867
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:43,900
not too annoying. So I hear the argument

868
01:13:50,733 --> 01:13:50,733
against the parking maximum,

869
01:13:58,500 --> 01:14:00,667
and I think that most of the points against the

870
01:14:02,700 --> 01:14:05,933
parking maximum can also be made about parking minimum. So whenever we change the

871
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,933
parking ordinance, it's going to create non-conforming properties, right?

872
01:14:17,533 --> 01:14:17,533
changing the ordinance by

873
01:14:24,833 --> 01:14:27,767
changing the maximum or minimum is going to change the variances potentially

874
01:14:29,267 --> 01:14:32,833
on the number of variances that we get. In some ways, putting in...

875
01:14:35,833 --> 01:14:35,833
an ordinance creates a certain

876
01:14:41,367 --> 01:14:45,167
level of slowdown, and so people have to make a decision about whether or not they want

877
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,500
to push back against that or not, and many people don't. It happens the same thing

878
01:14:50,667 --> 01:14:53,467
with the sign ordinance. So we have sign ordinances, and some groups ask

879
01:14:54,867 --> 01:14:58,000
for variances and some don't, and they just move on with it.

880
01:15:05,267 --> 01:15:07,033
the point that developers and business people are generally

881
01:15:09,433 --> 01:15:10,900
know how much traffic to expect and are capable of

882
01:15:13,467 --> 01:15:17,000
determining how much parking they need, I think I've addressed that as well

883
01:15:18,767 --> 01:15:21,967
regarding the parking minimums. There are communities that are getting rid of the minimums,

884
01:15:24,233 --> 01:15:28,100
and the same thing could be said for the maximum. But the purpose

885
01:15:29,267 --> 01:15:31,700
of a maximum is to have an ordinance mechanism

886
01:15:33,667 --> 01:15:36,067
across the board that would basically allow us

887
01:15:38,900 --> 01:15:38,900
to create a barrier to the

888
01:15:43,233 --> 01:15:46,100
parking because we have limited space here in the community and we're

889
01:15:48,867 --> 01:15:51,567
built in a swampy area. And so the idea

890
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,800
of limiting the asphalt seems like a good long-term thing to try and do.

891
01:16:00,133 --> 01:16:00,133
and at least in my mind,

892
01:16:04,233 --> 01:16:07,233
the parking maximum at this point seems like a reasonable way

893
01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:11,800
of doing that. The limitation on the developer

894
01:16:13,567 --> 01:16:13,567
constructing extra parking

895
01:16:18,900 --> 01:16:20,800
in case of future expansion, I think that's still

896
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,400
on the table if they need to request a variance.

897
01:16:37,967 --> 01:16:39,500
the point about stringent environmental regulations

898
01:16:42,133 --> 01:16:45,600
for this area, I think some of those things do come from the drain commissioner's

899
01:16:47,033 --> 01:16:48,867
office and we also have our own.

900
01:16:52,633 --> 01:16:56,500
I'm not disputing that we have those in place in order to protect the community and also to support the master plan's

901
01:16:57,967 --> 01:17:00,900
initiatives. And then the last point about

902
01:17:02,933 --> 01:17:06,900
mandatory parking requirements based on other regulatory requirements and the conflict

903
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,033
there, that is also possible and can

904
01:17:15,267 --> 01:17:18,333
also, I think, be said about any other ordinance that we would determine to put

905
01:17:21,467 --> 01:17:24,033
in place. If there are specific ones that

906
01:17:26,033 --> 01:17:27,933
need to be addressed, I think that would be...

907
01:17:31,333 --> 01:17:33,667
worthwhile to explore, but I don't know of any one specifically.

908
01:17:37,933 --> 01:17:41,000
so with all that being said, I hear what folks are saying, and I think that the 20% could

909
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:48,633
be moved up or down. I think it is a good mechanism

910
01:17:50,767 --> 01:17:54,067
to have in place. I like the 20% myself. So I just wanted

911
01:17:59,733 --> 01:18:01,167
to make those comments. Mr.

912
01:18:08,933 --> 01:18:12,500
mcconnell? I, too, scratched my head a bit about other regulatory requirements.

913
01:18:13,967 --> 01:18:16,667
are we aware of any other regulatory requirements? The concern was brought up

914
01:18:18,300 --> 01:18:20,033
by the owner of... I'm sorry, the hair place

915
01:18:27,533 --> 01:18:30,967
in the okemos area. Douglas j. Douglas j., thank you,

916
01:18:32,933 --> 01:18:35,433
thank you. They're licensed by the state,

917
01:18:37,067 --> 01:18:39,667
and they have to have a certain number of parking spaces per chair.

918
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,467
it turns out they have 22 chairs right now. Is that also common to medical

919
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:53,167
license? I don't know. I don't know that. But it might be.

920
01:18:54,700 --> 01:18:58,667
I've never heard that before, but apparently it's a thing. Now, in her specific case, they

921
01:19:00,333 --> 01:19:03,633
have a big shared parking. That's not an issue for her per se,

922
01:19:05,167 --> 01:19:09,000
but it might be for another. And I don't know where those

923
01:19:10,667 --> 01:19:14,467
regulatory requirements would be. I do not work for lara.

924
01:19:17,933 --> 01:19:21,300
I'm not being cheeky. I've never heard of that before, but now that

925
01:19:23,133 --> 01:19:26,733
it's something I have heard of, I don't know where else that might crop up in the future.

926
01:19:38,267 --> 01:19:42,133
I mean, is it possible that there could be a statement in the ordinance that says

927
01:19:43,967 --> 01:19:43,967
something to the effect of, if

928
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,033
state or federal level parking requirements push up the

929
01:19:59,667 --> 01:20:02,967
maximum or go beyond the maximum percentage, then staff may act accordingly?

930
01:20:05,233 --> 01:20:07,333
this maximum may be waived if more parking is required by

931
01:20:10,067 --> 01:20:13,733
outside regulatory agencies. Yeah. I think so, yes.

932
01:20:15,267 --> 01:20:15,267
that's a possibility.

933
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:22,933
commissioner shusbury. Getting to the very last note, not the

934
01:20:24,733 --> 01:20:27,733
bullet, but the text below the bullet where it noted that several commercial

935
01:20:29,167 --> 01:20:32,400
developments, including retail uses, fall under the general commercial category and that

936
01:20:35,033 --> 01:20:36,800
it's already there. How many commercial uses

937
01:20:41,067 --> 01:20:44,867
wouldn't necessarily, because we'd be regulating on the margins if we did this.

938
01:20:46,633 --> 01:20:49,933
talking about the chickens, does it add, we're covering just a small percentage more,

939
01:20:54,033 --> 01:20:57,400
because most of them are already covered by this?

940
01:20:58,500 --> 01:21:02,133
so tailgaters is a good example. They're a multi-use.

941
01:21:03,733 --> 01:21:07,267
facility, right? So you have to do the parking separate and add it together.

942
01:21:08,433 --> 01:21:11,433
so there is a standard for restaurants, and that is part

943
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,233
of their calculation, but the convenience store is this, and that's where they got the five

944
01:21:17,567 --> 01:21:21,300
to five and a half for that part of their calculation. So any retail store is going

945
01:21:23,933 --> 01:21:26,800
to be this. Restaurants have their own

946
01:21:28,667 --> 01:21:28,667
standard.

947
01:21:34,733 --> 01:21:37,833
commissioner nguyen. So just to make sure I understand the big picture,

948
01:21:39,667 --> 01:21:42,367
so we are proposing changes to the ordinance that would then be brought

949
01:21:43,967 --> 01:21:46,800
to the township board for them to pass into law, correct? Correct.

950
01:21:48,833 --> 01:21:51,833
so I spoke with one of the board members at their last meeting, and they

951
01:21:53,367 --> 01:21:57,100
aren't aware that we're doing any of this discussion. Is this something that we want to solicit their feedback on?

952
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,833
no. No. We don't need that. No.

953
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,867
okay, now I want to make sure I understand. No, there's a process. Okay, that's how it works.

954
01:22:08,033 --> 01:22:11,400
no, we have to make all the other boards mad, and then we make them mad. Okay.

955
01:22:12,300 --> 01:22:13,533
it's a very strict process. I wasn't sure if we solicited

956
01:22:16,833 --> 01:22:20,833
any... I see where you're coming from, but no. Okay.

957
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,200
no. They'll get their turn at bat.

958
01:22:25,900 --> 01:22:29,400
okay. Any other questions, comments, concerns?

959
01:22:32,967 --> 01:22:36,967
so it sounds like we have a request for at least one more, what I would call a pro forma amendment.

960
01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:44,933
if it's the will of the planning commission, I can write that caveat into the

961
01:22:47,833 --> 01:22:49,533
ordinance and then bring it back.

962
01:22:52,300 --> 01:22:53,467
are you ready for a resolution with that change?

963
01:22:56,833 --> 01:22:59,833
there are no other questions. You are not bringing up, I'm not throwing shade, but

964
01:23:01,267 --> 01:23:04,067
you're not bringing up other questions. Is it worth that draft going to

965
01:23:05,533 --> 01:23:08,967
the folks who gave us the input to see if we... No, you are the approving body.

966
01:23:10,167 --> 01:23:13,867
and that was actually mentioned at one point during the dda meeting. It was like, at the end

967
01:23:15,033 --> 01:23:18,933
of the day, it's your ordinance. These are their comments. Alright.

968
01:23:20,133 --> 01:23:24,133
I retract my question. Are you sure that the state

969
01:23:25,967 --> 01:23:27,500
requires minimum spaces? No.

970
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,733
I am going off what I am told. I just find that really hard to believe.

971
01:23:35,267 --> 01:23:37,933
I do, too. And ai is telling me otherwise.

972
01:23:40,700 --> 01:23:42,867
I still think it's kind of a good safety net.

973
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,400
what made me think of, like, huge medical establishments that force you to park

974
01:23:50,700 --> 01:23:53,733
in a paid parking garage. Like, it seems like this day would regulate that, too.

975
01:23:55,100 --> 01:23:58,367
if you need medical care, you shouldn't have to pay to park.

976
01:23:59,533 --> 01:24:02,900
like, you know. I don't know, but I found that. Senator singh is retiring.

977
01:24:04,067 --> 01:24:07,500
let's see if you can ram that through before you dial, right? Thanks for coming.

978
01:24:08,733 --> 01:24:11,933
you can't have your car back because you're broke. Exactly. Nor can you get in.

979
01:24:13,033 --> 01:24:16,833
we don't care if you're bleeding out. Yeah, and I just want to, I appreciate that research as

980
01:24:18,367 --> 01:24:21,667
well, because I want to reiterate that any language I would say is, I'd be willing to

981
01:24:23,667 --> 01:24:24,900
support language that supports or pulls in state.

982
01:24:29,033 --> 01:24:29,033
level regulatory guidance,

983
01:24:33,333 --> 01:24:35,633
not just sort of like any sort of licensing bodies that are

984
01:24:42,067 --> 01:24:45,367
non-profits or private or anything like that. Well, license, yeah, okay.

985
01:24:46,300 --> 01:24:49,467
so, at the state or federal level, then what you're saying.

986
01:24:50,533 --> 01:24:53,600
yeah, okay. Yeah, because you could technically go to the...

987
01:24:55,067 --> 01:24:58,500
the county can get a business license, I guess. I was going to say that's where licenses come from, but we do

988
01:24:59,633 --> 01:25:03,600
get business licenses. Okay, that's a clarification. We were just talking about how, you know, if

989
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:08,167
something... Supersedes something else it doesn't have to be explicitly made mention

990
01:25:09,767 --> 01:25:13,200
of in the ordinance like it doesn't really seem necessary if state regulatory agencies

991
01:25:17,633 --> 01:25:19,900
have a standard then that's the standard just like

992
01:25:22,033 --> 01:25:24,067
with hoas you know like right and I'd hate

993
01:25:26,500 --> 01:25:29,600
to have to make them go through the variance process for that just

994
01:25:31,167 --> 01:25:33,300
to get a rubber stamp because of right this gets them out of

995
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:40,067
that process I do not know that this is going to happen. I'm going to be really honest.

996
01:25:41,133 --> 01:25:44,733
I do not know that I'm going to face this again. However, I threw it out there

997
01:25:47,233 --> 01:25:50,567
because I appreciate the feedback and I'm also willing to compromise with groups and

998
01:25:52,567 --> 01:25:54,300
to try and make things amenable to everyone.

999
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,900
but I think that you both are making good points about it. Whether or not this is

1000
01:26:03,367 --> 01:26:04,900
necessary. It made me think of the ada

1001
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:12,267
compliance. Don't we have accessibility code that's listed in there,

1002
01:26:13,533 --> 01:26:17,433
which technically isn't required? What do you mean it's not required?

1003
01:26:21,167 --> 01:26:24,533
we have to follow ada standards. Correct.

1004
01:26:25,767 --> 01:26:29,233
but I'm saying I thought there was a conversation that we didn't have to expressly list those.

1005
01:26:30,433 --> 01:26:33,867
oh, I see what you're saying. That is correct. That is correct. So that's what I...

1006
01:26:35,067 --> 01:26:38,700
a lot of... By reference. Yeah, you can do it by reference, and then during

1007
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:44,100
building permitting process, they'll look at do you have enough handicap spots and things like that.

1008
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:45,400
yeah.

1009
01:26:53,133 --> 01:26:57,133
so let me ask this one. Sorry, I'm recalling something I said in the last meeting. The idea being it would give...

1010
01:26:59,067 --> 01:26:59,067
the township some leeway

1011
01:27:03,900 --> 01:27:06,667
to make things faster for developers to not go through these processes?

1012
01:27:08,167 --> 01:27:11,433
I think I may be able to back and forth about this. Yes, that is true.

1013
01:27:12,833 --> 01:27:16,833
as proposed, does the amended ordinance empower the township

1014
01:27:18,733 --> 01:27:20,200
to do so under what we have in front of us?

1015
01:27:23,300 --> 01:27:26,033
did that make its way in? No, I can't build a mechanism

1016
01:27:27,767 --> 01:27:30,567
in to get you around. A very, like,

1017
01:27:32,500 --> 01:27:34,833
the 20% applies unless we don't like, I mean, unless we feel

1018
01:27:38,367 --> 01:27:41,367
like it's okay. Yeah, okay.

1019
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,800
I can't. I'm just, like I said, I'm going through, remembering.

1020
01:27:47,900 --> 01:27:51,600
yeah, we did have that conversation. I can't.

1021
01:27:53,100 --> 01:27:55,733
yeah. Or we would have to stipulate specific property types similar

1022
01:27:57,700 --> 01:28:00,767
to the parking minimums where they're all listed out. Which I don't want

1023
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:04,667
to propose, to be clear. Yeah.

1024
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:17,000
so would this be another instance where we would do the straw poll?

1025
01:28:19,167 --> 01:28:21,500
the question as I'm hearing it right now is,

1026
01:28:23,333 --> 01:28:25,200
are you as a body okay with a 20% number, 20% maximum

1027
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,733
with the language that says... This is waivable if necessary

1028
01:28:33,333 --> 01:28:35,833
because of state or federal regulatory rules.

1029
01:28:38,267 --> 01:28:41,300
I'll phrase that. You know that. But, okay.

1030
01:28:44,167 --> 01:28:46,067
I'm good with that. Other, yeah, yeah.

1031
01:28:52,733 --> 01:28:56,467
I will bring you a resolution and finish ordinance. Mr.

1032
01:28:57,867 --> 01:29:01,333
sorkin, please bring us a resolution that reflects this conversation. You have a question.

1033
01:29:02,867 --> 01:29:06,167
oh, I saw it. Does it require swap votes? Should we do that?

1034
01:29:07,633 --> 01:29:11,433
I mean, I'm... Yeah, typically there is an informal vote. Alright.

1035
01:29:13,067 --> 01:29:16,067
it's a show of hands kind of a thing. Informally, show of hands,

1036
01:29:17,300 --> 01:29:18,500
who would be willing, who would be voting in favor of

1037
01:29:23,133 --> 01:29:25,833
such a resolution? I think you have your numbers, mr.

1038
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:33,267
farfee. Okay. Thank you. Move on to other business,

1039
01:29:34,567 --> 01:29:37,200
number nine on the agenda, mass timber construction discussion. Yep.

1040
01:29:44,467 --> 01:29:44,467
here we go.

1041
01:29:49,033 --> 01:29:51,833
at our last meeting, we brought this up for discussion,

1042
01:29:53,667 --> 01:29:56,667
and two points were raised. You asked for information on

1043
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:00,367
mass timber. I did insert a couple

1044
01:30:02,767 --> 01:30:06,000
attachments and I gave you two different websites to check out.

1045
01:30:08,033 --> 01:30:10,300
here's what it is. Here are the benefits. Things like that.

1046
01:30:13,433 --> 01:30:14,667
and then you ask for suggested updates.

1047
01:30:19,733 --> 01:30:19,733
it is pretty easy to put this

1048
01:30:28,433 --> 01:30:32,033
into an mpud ordinance or a commercial planned unit.

1049
01:30:34,067 --> 01:30:37,167
planned unit development ordinance, those have amenities, lists

1050
01:30:39,100 --> 01:30:42,667
of amenities, and it would be easy to put this in there.

1051
01:30:44,467 --> 01:30:48,200
you know, you do this and we'll give you a waivers list, okay?

1052
01:30:53,700 --> 01:30:57,233
going beyond that is a longer process. Like, you'd have to create a

1053
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:00,867
process. Like, if you said, I want it in all c2 zones,

1054
01:31:02,567 --> 01:31:05,533
mmm. I'm going to have to sit down and think about how

1055
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:10,600
to do that. This gets to a lot

1056
01:31:14,267 --> 01:31:14,267
of what was concerned with,

1057
01:31:20,933 --> 01:31:24,467
but staff is prepared to go in whatever direction you want on this.

1058
01:31:27,367 --> 01:31:31,033
commissioner mcauliffe? Thanks. I think I support the idea

1059
01:31:32,967 --> 01:31:36,767
of dipping our toes in the water. Under the pud ordinance, it seems fairly straightforward

1060
01:31:37,933 --> 01:31:40,467
and probably one of the spots where it's most likely to be utilized.

1061
01:31:43,433 --> 01:31:47,133
so thanks for doing that. And I would support that change as a first step.

1062
01:31:48,967 --> 01:31:52,367
and if we want to keep scratching our heads about how we do it in other zones, then we can

1063
01:31:53,567 --> 01:31:57,233
keep scratching our head. Commissioner shusberg? Just so I understand clearly,

1064
01:31:58,900 --> 01:32:02,200
we would be doing this to incentivize its use. There's nothing...

1065
01:32:03,533 --> 01:32:07,367
currently that prevents its use in any construction. It's just we're looking

1066
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:11,667
at ways to try to encourage the developer to consider it.

1067
01:32:13,667 --> 01:32:15,767
yeah, so an mu-ped comes in, hazlet village,

1068
01:32:17,833 --> 01:32:19,533
for instance. One of their amenities is,

1069
01:32:22,467 --> 01:32:25,700
what are they, like art? Oh, the trailhead, yes,

1070
01:32:27,167 --> 01:32:30,333
the trailhead. Ok, we would be adding two

1071
01:32:32,233 --> 01:32:35,867
amenities. Mass timber construction. Of course, specifics have

1072
01:32:37,300 --> 01:32:41,233
to be banged out. Like I noted in my memo, there's three levels of amenities.

1073
01:32:42,433 --> 01:32:46,067
where does this fit? What percentage of the building has to be? Things like that.

1074
01:32:47,133 --> 01:32:49,200
there's conversations to be had, but staff can...

1075
01:32:52,567 --> 01:32:55,633
we'll bring the list to you and take it

1076
01:32:58,367 --> 01:33:02,167
from there, I guess. Mr. Shusbeck?

1077
01:33:03,367 --> 01:33:06,567
I'd be really curious to see if there are other places in michigan or elsewhere

1078
01:33:08,833 --> 01:33:12,067
that have done this successfully, like put it into their code and how they've done

1079
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:17,633
it. Okay. You know, if they've done something

1080
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,267
like what we've tried to do. I believe east lansing did,

1081
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:27,133
and that's what got it on the cia's...

1082
01:33:29,867 --> 01:33:33,233
east lansing did. They, they... They put it in an ordinance that isn't really analogous

1083
01:33:34,333 --> 01:33:38,033
to ours because it's for downtown redevelopment and allowing extra stories on a downtown building, you

1084
01:33:39,267 --> 01:33:41,833
know, so it's not exactly, I can't just cut and paste that, but they did amend their

1085
01:33:43,433 --> 01:33:44,900
ordinance to allow mass timber construction as a benefit,

1086
01:33:47,833 --> 01:33:51,467
as a way to get extra space. Okay, thank you.

1087
01:33:52,867 --> 01:33:56,233
sure, I can look more indefinitely into that. There are places that are kind

1088
01:33:57,467 --> 01:34:00,833
of cutting edge or doing it successfully. Sure. And like, we tried this,

1089
01:34:01,900 --> 01:34:05,333
it didn't really bring in what we thought, so we did this, you know, anecdotally.

1090
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:09,900
I will look into that. I'm trying to remember if it was here.

1091
01:34:12,033 --> 01:34:14,767
we heard about a residence hall being built in grand rapids,

1092
01:34:17,033 --> 01:34:17,033
the biggest mass timber

1093
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:24,600
building in the state. It was over that direction.

1094
01:34:26,067 --> 01:34:27,867
I brought it up. It's in my previous memo.

1095
01:34:30,900 --> 01:34:33,167
I think it was an eight-story residential building.

1096
01:34:35,233 --> 01:34:38,067
it was not grand rapids exactly, but in that area. On bowery street.

1097
01:34:39,633 --> 01:34:43,233
yeah, something like that. And the idea here then is still

1098
01:34:45,533 --> 01:34:47,433
that the pud or the mupud can be done along the grand river

1099
01:34:50,433 --> 01:34:53,967
corridor, right? Yeah, you can do an mpud

1100
01:34:55,567 --> 01:34:55,567
anywhere you've got the

1101
01:34:59,600 --> 01:34:59,600
appropriate zoning for it.

1102
01:35:06,133 --> 01:35:08,833
okay. Okay, so then a follow-up question to that

1103
01:35:10,733 --> 01:35:13,800
for the next time we talk about this would be is, because the cia was interested

1104
01:35:15,633 --> 01:35:18,933
in this, does that include all of the grand river corridor? No, no,

1105
01:35:20,467 --> 01:35:24,067
and that's the point I made. To put this into the mup, the ordinance as an amenity,

1106
01:35:25,433 --> 01:35:28,167
is one thing. That's an easy fix. Not, I don't want to say fix,

1107
01:35:29,533 --> 01:35:32,033
it's an easy addition. Right. To say...

1108
01:35:34,333 --> 01:35:38,167
everything in the corridor, to make it an amenity, to make it like an incentive

1109
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,133
in the corridor, that's going to take more work because

1110
01:35:45,267 --> 01:35:48,200
what's the tradeoff? There is no mechanism in place for amenities and waivers,

1111
01:35:49,867 --> 01:35:53,233
like in the mupd ordinance. I'm not saying it can't be

1112
01:35:55,367 --> 01:35:57,200
created, but that is creating something.

1113
01:35:59,900 --> 01:36:02,267
and that's a bigger job. Potentially, you know,

1114
01:36:05,733 --> 01:36:09,533
more discussion. Yeah. Okay. Others?

1115
01:36:13,233 --> 01:36:13,233
what's your name?

1116
01:36:20,467 --> 01:36:23,433
so, yeah, looking at the mpud ordinance, I think,

1117
01:36:26,267 --> 01:36:29,167
yeah, throwing it in at maybe level two seems really reasonable to me.

1118
01:36:32,500 --> 01:36:36,267
yeah, so if I had to vote on something right now, that's probably where I would think would be a reasonable place

1119
01:36:37,633 --> 01:36:41,267
to put it. Yeah. Can you show us those three levels?

1120
01:36:44,367 --> 01:36:44,367
yes.

1121
01:36:52,667 --> 01:36:55,100
where do you see codes and ordinances? Here we go.

1122
01:37:01,233 --> 01:37:01,233
86, 440.

1123
01:37:20,667 --> 01:37:23,967
yeah, so before I get there, where is it located?

1124
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:28,433
mupd projects are permitted in the c2, c3, cr zoning districts.

1125
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,900
and permitted po and c1 when adjacent and there's conditions.

1126
01:37:35,300 --> 01:37:36,633
just to give you an idea, that question came up.

1127
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:39,400
amenities, so project features

1128
01:37:47,167 --> 01:37:51,067
count as three amenities. So I think I called these level three amenities during the

1129
01:37:53,167 --> 01:37:56,700
haslitt village. Leed certification, multi-level

1130
01:37:58,233 --> 01:38:01,800
parking decks. 20% total units,

1131
01:38:03,067 --> 01:38:07,000
affordable housing. You get down here, these count as two amenities.

1132
01:38:09,967 --> 01:38:13,233
75% of all buildings, natural materials on their facades, green roofs,

1133
01:38:16,033 --> 01:38:19,733
ev stations, outdoor seating plazas, and then these are

1134
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:22,833
single amenities. Green space, e-scooter parking,

1135
01:38:27,367 --> 01:38:29,500
wireless access points. Things like that.

1136
01:38:31,467 --> 01:38:31,467
so yeah, adding under this,

1137
01:38:35,967 --> 01:38:39,033
adding 10 mass timber construction, and then

1138
01:38:41,500 --> 01:38:45,033
on what percent of the buildings, et cetera, things like that.

1139
01:38:46,933 --> 01:38:49,400
that's a conversation worth having, rather than just saying mass timber construction, kind

1140
01:38:51,067 --> 01:38:52,433
of nailing it down a little bit.

1141
01:39:03,967 --> 01:39:06,167
I'm guessing the folks at msu would be happy to suggest draft ordinance language.

1142
01:39:09,567 --> 01:39:12,900
maybe. I can reach out to them and ask.

1143
01:39:21,467 --> 01:39:24,367
so this is other business. Nothing would then require a vote tonight, right?

1144
01:39:25,767 --> 01:39:29,767
no. And do you have the guidance that you need? Yeah.

1145
01:39:33,733 --> 01:39:36,900
I'll come back with... These amenities and a bullet point and updated memo.

1146
01:39:39,433 --> 01:39:42,400
I mentioned that we have amenities in the commercial

1147
01:39:44,167 --> 01:39:47,533
planned unit development. Frankly, we haven't had any. I don't know that we have

1148
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,667
anybody use that. But if we're going

1149
01:39:53,033 --> 01:39:55,833
to open the hood, I'll put those there too because why not?

1150
01:39:57,300 --> 01:40:00,633
that sounds right. And then if you want to take this further,

1151
01:40:01,933 --> 01:40:04,767
we can. I'm going to bring this back. Not at the next meeting,

1152
01:40:06,900 --> 01:40:10,433
but the meeting after that. So just so you know. Very well.

1153
01:40:13,833 --> 01:40:17,367
thank you, mr. Sharkey. Of course. So with that, we can move on

1154
01:40:18,667 --> 01:40:22,000
to 10, reports and announcements, township board update. Yep.

1155
01:40:25,567 --> 01:40:28,633
april 7th, under consent agenda, the township board did an

1156
01:40:30,300 --> 01:40:33,300
appointment for the brownfield. Did appointments for the

1157
01:40:34,633 --> 01:40:37,600
brownfield redevelopment authority and the environmental commission.

1158
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:42,033
I'm sure you can talk about that more specifically. Board discussion items included

1159
01:40:44,833 --> 01:40:46,200
the capstone project on hanna boulevard and the jolly

1160
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:51,767
road-texandani rezoning. And they also discussed data

1161
01:40:55,167 --> 01:40:57,333
centers and battery storage facilities moratorium.

1162
01:41:03,333 --> 01:41:06,667
the draft agenda for the next meeting shows the capstone and

1163
01:41:09,100 --> 01:41:10,467
the texandani rezoning moving forward.

1164
01:41:14,733 --> 01:41:14,733
okay, well liaison reports.

1165
01:41:18,867 --> 01:41:22,667
I forget who liaises at this point. I liaise with the dba, but the dba didn't meet this month.

1166
01:41:26,867 --> 01:41:30,267
any other liaison reports? At the last meeting of the environmental commission,

1167
01:41:31,367 --> 01:41:35,367
thanks for throwing me under the bus, we heard that there might be some new appointments to be made, but we

1168
01:41:38,233 --> 01:41:41,100
also reviewed applications for the green grant program funded

1169
01:41:43,700 --> 01:41:46,233
by the board. I and another commissioner were recused from

1170
01:41:48,300 --> 01:41:52,167
the conversation because we were both members of homeowners associations who had submitted

1171
01:41:53,700 --> 01:41:55,767
applications for financing green infrastructure. And

1172
01:41:57,800 --> 01:41:59,733
interestingly enough, a criterion applied

1173
01:42:03,900 --> 01:42:07,100
to past applications from hoas was that the area where the

1174
01:42:09,133 --> 01:42:11,533
project work was done would be accessible to the public. And

1175
01:42:13,733 --> 01:42:17,567
we shall see how that plays out with those hoas. He says ominously. If I might,

1176
01:42:19,767 --> 01:42:19,767
my hoa has some... Archaic

1177
01:42:26,233 --> 01:42:26,233
restrictive covenants. As far

1178
01:42:34,300 --> 01:42:38,200
as I know, they're not really illegal as some others, but they are. And our practice

1179
01:42:41,567 --> 01:42:44,900
is regularly to defer to township ordinance because there's a code enforcement

1180
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:49,800
officer. You can go knock on the door. Rather than going and filing a suit and hiring

1181
01:42:51,133 --> 01:42:53,033
somebody to be served and try and take them to court, which

1182
01:42:55,900 --> 01:42:57,700
different groups have different processes. Ours is...

1183
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:02,600
in great need of reform. My hoa

1184
01:43:06,933 --> 01:43:09,800
bylaws, where I live, have not been rewritten since 1986. And ironically, that's

1185
01:43:12,667 --> 01:43:14,800
when they were written the first time. If anybody wants

1186
01:43:17,267 --> 01:43:21,067
to geek on homeownership, hoa restrictive covenants, I'd be happy

1187
01:43:22,767 --> 01:43:25,233
to do that offline. Any other liaison reports? Project

1188
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:31,300
updates? I believe I did not see a project update. No, nothing this month. Nothing

1189
01:43:32,700 --> 01:43:35,533
coming through. Public remarks? There are no members of the public. Commissioner

1190
01:43:37,300 --> 01:43:40,900
comments? Commissioner nahum? So a quick thing about the discussion from the

1191
01:43:42,233 --> 01:43:45,633
township board about the possible data center moratorium. The discussion

1192
01:43:47,833 --> 01:43:50,400
seemed to be the case that they were considering a moratorium

1193
01:43:52,367 --> 01:43:55,233
to give time to consider what is the appropriate sort

1194
01:43:56,800 --> 01:44:00,600
of regulation for data centers and battery storage centers within the township. And I

1195
01:44:03,900 --> 01:44:06,267
presume that sort of regulation would probably be coming to us

1196
01:44:07,967 --> 01:44:11,567
to have to come up with that. So just something to keep on your agenda that we may have

1197
01:44:14,267 --> 01:44:14,267
that coming towards us. My

1198
01:44:19,933 --> 01:44:21,767
resignation will be shortly before that. Commissioner

1199
01:44:24,867 --> 01:44:27,633
newham, do I recall that we were waiting to see if you were going

1200
01:44:29,500 --> 01:44:33,200
to be dad by this meeting? Yes, I am not dad by this meeting, but I expect to be tomorrow. I expect

1201
01:44:39,667 --> 01:44:43,133
to be tomorrow. Well, congratulations. Any other commissioner comments? Hearing

1202
01:44:44,300 --> 01:44:48,200
none, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. We have moved by commissioner

1203
01:44:49,900 --> 01:44:52,967
brooks, second by commissioner mcconnell. I think I heard first. All in favor,

1204
01:44:54,967 --> 01:44:57,333
aye. Aye. Opposed? Yay. That vote should be yay. Yay.