[0:30] All right.
[0:38] and of course, I'll put my account away. Okay.
[0:43] I'm on it. I will call the april 13th, 2026 regular meeting of the meridian township planning commission
[0:47] to order and we will go through roll call. Commissioner nahum? Here. Commissioner brooks?
[0:52] present. Vice chair mccurtis? Present. Commissioner shuesberry? Present.
[0:57] commissioner snyder? Here. And commissioner mcconnell? You're here. And the chair is here,
[1:02] so we have a full board today. And at this moment, I can move to item three on our agenda,
[1:07] which is policy. Mr.
[1:11] shirky, do we have any remarks? There are no remarks. There are no remarks. With that, I will move
[1:16] to item four on the agenda, which is approval of today's agenda. Do we have any additions,
[1:20] deletions, or amendments to the april 13, 2026 agenda? We do not.
[1:24] hearing none, I would move for a... Uh move for or it asks
[1:30] for approval of today's agenda so move second so moved by commissioner mcconnell seconded
[1:35] by vice chair mccurtis uh also note commissioner nahum was also willing to do so um all in
[1:40] favor aye aye any opposed very well we will consider today's
[1:44] agenda approved and with that we will move to approval of the minutes
[1:49] from the march 23rd 2026 meeting item 5 in the agenda are there any amendments
[1:54] changes deletions to the minutes from our march 23rd, 2026 meeting.
[1:59] okay, hearing none, I would entertain a motion
[2:04] to approve the minutes from the march 23rd agenda. So moved.
[2:09] moved by vice chairman curtis. Second from commissioner shuesbury.
[2:14] all in favor, aye. Aye. Opposed? And the minutes are approved.
[2:19] with that, we'll move to number six. There is a communications from ben. I'm going to go
[2:24] with ugarhide. Probably butchered it. Regarding the zoning amendment
[2:28] 26002 that is in your packet, and then I handed out an email from a resident also
[2:33] about zoning amendment number 26002. I will note there's an email
[2:40] here from nancy, nancy7654 at gmail.com, which we've been handed.
[2:45] can I ask a question about that? Commissioner brooks.
[2:51] for when we get communications, so when somebody comes... Before the commission make a
[2:57] public comment, they usually have to say their name and address
[3:01] at the podium. So in email communication, is that also required to be
[3:07] considered an official comment? No. So we could get an email?
[3:12] I save all the emails that I get on everything. They're all foiable. I keep them all
[3:17] in the appropriate folder. And I don't think they're required to give their name and address.
[3:22] it's just we ask them to do so. Oh, okay.
[3:28] all right. I'm just curious about the differences. No, it's a good question,
[3:33] but no, I keep all emails. Okay. That would make sense,
[3:37] because you are foia-able. All right. Thank you.
[3:42] anything further on communications item six on the agenda?
[3:47] there is not. Okay. That's a no-action item. We'll just note that we have
[3:53] the two emails noted, and then we can move on to public hearings. The first being sup 26007,
[3:58] tailgaters, special use permit. Mr.
[4:03] torkey. Thank you. Oh, this is amazing.
[4:11] okay. Does this one work better?
[4:17] yes. It's an ec2. Okay.
[4:21] special use permit number 26007, tailgaters. To construct a tailgaters gas
[4:25] station and convenience store should also say a drive-thru at 1614 and 1622 grand river avenue and a vacant parcel on
[4:31] central park drive. Not a lot to say
[4:36] on the first page. It is zone c2. These are all c2 uses.
[4:42] dimensionally, dimensional regulations, not a problem with it.
[4:46] I'm going to skip right to... This page here.
[4:52] item three.
[4:57] so we are making a move toward digital submittals. In our office.
[5:02] so the site plan that came with the application that you have in your packet is the second
[5:10] version of it and not the most recent version of it.
[5:16] the 11 by 17 in front of you is the current site plan and the one that should have been
[5:20] in the packet, it was mislabeled in the folder.
[5:24] it is part of the learning curve of moving to digital files. Staff apologizes
[5:29] for any confusion. But the upshot of it is their parking does comply with our
[5:34] with on the current plan. It complies
[5:39] with all our ordinances. There is one small thing that
[5:44] staff has noted in the update to the latest and greatest site plan.
[5:49] they didn't update their bike parking. I've had a conversation with the applicant.
[5:54] they're going to give us two more bike parking spaces. They do not have to request a variance
[5:59] for parking. However, the standards
[6:04] for gas stations in the c2 zone state that you can have no more than 10 vehicle fueling
[6:09] stations. Now, a vehicle fueling station is not the pump. A pump has two stations
[6:14] by definition in the ordinance. They have eight pumps.
[6:20] for this site plan to go through as proposed, they'll have to concurrently,
[6:24] if they get the site plan approval, they'll have to concurrently apply
[6:28] for a zoning variance. For the six extra fueling stations.
[6:33] so any resolution of approval that might happen, that'll be a condition of approval.
[6:38] other than that, staff points out they did submit a traffic study.
[6:44] the study will have to be approved by both the ingham county road department and by
[6:50] michigan department of transportation. The study does have a series
[6:55] of suggestions. Those are shown on the site plan.
[7:03] other than that, staff really has no comment. We've been talking
[7:08] to the applicant for a while. They've heard all of the,
[7:14] they've taken our suggestions. The plan is, you know, whatever
[7:19] environmentally sensitive areas of the subject property there are, they're working
[7:24] around them, they're following our ordinances. They just need the one variance
[7:30] and the two parking spaces.
[7:35] they are represented, and I can answer questions, or you can hear from the applicant.
[7:41] questions for mr. Shorkey?
[7:46] is this the same parcel that we had previously looked at for a potential storage unit
[7:50] facility? Yes, it is, and a marijuana dispensary.
[8:00] um, can you pull up the location and like the parcel here? I just want to see where the
[8:04] closest residences are. Absolutely. I am remiss. I should have thought
[8:11] of that. Oh, mabson's g.I.s.
[8:23] it is... If you'll give me a moment,
[8:28] I'm going to shut some of this stuff off.
[8:34] thanks trains and local roads
[8:41] it is yeah, yeah because it
[8:45] comes out on central park drive, thank you it's this
[8:50] piece and these two pieces so on the site plan hold on the
[8:59] site plan is oriented with north to the left, so if you turn it sideways, the
[9:05] detention area is shown as proposed on this, so they're
[9:10] not proposing any development up here off of central park drive.
[9:15] they do have a drive coming out here, and that's why the ingham county road department will have to get involved.
[9:20] they do show an ingress-ingress on central park drive. The development, the the
[9:26] convenience store, gas station, etc.
[9:31] comes up in this area here, so you don't see any development here in just kind
[9:39] of the general overview.
[9:44] thank you. Of course. Shrewsbury.
[9:51] on the plan that we have here at appears to connect to the
[9:58] street at the north side with the neighborhood.
[10:02] say that one more time. Like, if you turn it this way,
[10:07] where it says everwood lane private, is that going to connect to this little stub
[10:12] here? I'm going to, they, my understanding, and I'll let them talk
[10:18] about this, my understanding is that they've approached grand reserve about making that connection.
[10:23] I don't know if that's set in stone yet at all. They can answer questions
[10:28] about where they stand on that. And it's not a connection that the township's requiring, it's
[10:32] one that they're proposing. So it's not required for public safety? It's not, no.
[10:37] they have two ins and outs on the site. Thank you.
[10:43] commissioner mcconnell. Looks
[10:48] like there's also another stub on the northwest, or is that
[10:53] like a turnaround thing? We can hear from the outskirts,
[10:57] I'm sorry. Yeah. Yes, that's not going to go in some place.
[11:03] not as far as I know. I haven't heard of any other
[11:07] development proposal going in that direction, but it's
[11:12] simply just a potential turnaround for emergency vehicles,
[11:16] I assume. Okay, thanks. Mr.
[11:20] nagel. Apologies for my interruption. Sure, sure, sure.
[11:25] are the neighbors informed? Like the 300 feet? Of course they are. They are?
[11:29] okay, so the fact that they aren't here means they were informed. Sorry, I don't mean to...
[11:34] sorry. Yes, yes. This is a public hearing. Public notification laws apply.
[11:38] in the case of grand reserve, it is technically one big parcel, I will say this.
[11:42] they did receive a copy of the legal notice and was
[11:46] told to hang it up in their office. And that's standard procedure
[11:51] for apartment complexes and things like that. I have two questions.
[11:57] so additional gas pumping
[12:02] stations, I know you said that would require a variance.
[12:07] is there any concern about that, given the amount of additional? Because right now is what is
[12:12] zoned for, what, you said eight? Ten.
[12:17] the zoning category c2 allows up to ten fueling stations,
[12:22] five pumps. We'll just talk in terms of
[12:26] pumps. ...allows five pumps. They want eight pumps.
[12:32] there's no concern from it from a zoning perspective, and their traffic assessment has
[12:37] taken that into account when they've looked at potential traffic
[12:43] on the site. So they want five pumps. I mean, it's zoned
[12:48] for five pumps, but they want an additional... They want three more.
[12:53] and by definition, that's six additional fuel stations. Because each pump has two
[12:58] stations. Two sides. Yes. Got it.
[13:03] that's what I was trying to figure out. Yep. My second question was
[13:08] about the traffic. Because of the additional fueling stations and it's
[13:13] coming off grand river just like speedway does. Get that. But just what does the, has the
[13:17] traffic assessment been done and what, you know? Yes, it has. And those kind of,
[13:22] those are not packaged. It. It makes the recommendations,
[13:27] as bullet pointed in my memo here, these are shown on the plan.
[13:31] so on grand river specifically, they have a right in, they're proposing a right in,
[13:36] right out. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't want to try
[13:41] to make a left turn out of that. Commissioner neal?
[13:45] another question. So are we supposed to be evaluating the site plan with the expectation that they
[13:50] will get this variance, or are we supposed to be evaluating it? Under the...
[13:55] no, go ahead and evaluate the site plan. So the site plan as is, as before.
[13:59] yes. Mr. Shorkey, can you, because we've done a number
[14:03] of different kinds of things that were like special use permit recently,
[14:09] but weren't exactly a special use permit, I feel like,
[14:14] can you walk us through why is this a special use permit
[14:18] rather than something else? We're just not even requiring a
[14:22] special use permit. We require a special use permit for gas stations
[14:27] in the c2 district, and we require a special use permit for all drive-thrus in the township.
[14:32] so then, so if, so since this looks like three parcels.
[14:36] it is. If it wasn't a gas station or wasn't a drive-thru, then there
[14:42] could be this building that would take up, that would go
[14:46] across all three parcels. Yeah. Yeah, we'd probably require
[14:52] them to combine the parcels as part of the site plan approval.
[14:57] we've done that with other people. I don't know why they'd want
[15:01] to, but I leave that up to them. I don't have a problem
[15:06] with that. If, yeah, okay.
[15:11] typically, in a multi-parcel,
[15:16] like grand reserve is a good example, right? They had to join those parcels together,
[15:22] and that's one big parcel now. Does the planning commission, I
[15:26] just, I'm sorry, this is a basic question. Does the planning commission get involved when?
[15:31] multiple parcels have to be joined? No, that's a land combination. That's an administrative
[15:36] function. Thank you. I just can't remember if we'd ever done that or if I had done
[15:41] that. Was there any consideration
[15:49] regarding the parking in here and the possibility of
[15:56] the ordinance changes that we're currently looking at? I looked at the changes.
[16:04] so we're not proposing any changes
[16:08] to the parking standards. We already did that last year. Right.
[16:12] so the parking numbers are the current parking numbers.
[16:17] as far as the parking layout, I don't see any problems in terms of any
[16:22] of the proposed changes. Okay. Even for like the buffer zones?
[16:29] yep. Yep.
[16:34] that's a good question. At least I have one. Would hate
[16:39] to create a nonconformity on this. I thought I was just trying to,
[16:44] like, just saying. Okay, thank you.
[16:48] of course. I think I know the answer
[16:53] to this, but when we see the right term taper, I mean it's just cut in a way where you can only,
[16:58] to prevent folks from doing this left term thing. Coming out. Right.
[17:03] it kind of cuts to the right so that you can get over and then out
[17:09] of the main line of traffic. Yes. Oh, I see. Okay.
[17:14] to enter. Okay. So the exit though, because you don't want
[17:20] to have a no left turn sign. Right. Right now, like where bank of
[17:25] america is, you can only turn here I can show you the way that is cut even though I see
[17:29] people who go back sometimes. They do have fun. It might be one of those people
[17:33] and we don't want to be judged. No judgment. This is, yeah, this is not.
[17:39] it doesn't have the arrows. This doesn't have it as clearly
[17:45] delineated as the plan in front of you,
[17:50] but the basic idea, you have this taper here going
[17:54] in here, this would be a right turn in, and then the right turn
[17:59] out would, you'd. You'd have to get in, I think, yeah, you'd have to get into the traffic.
[18:04] yeah, that makes sense. But, I mean, that's a configuration that we see around the township
[18:09] in places. Thank you.
[18:14] of course. I don't know. Commissioner brooks?
[18:19] was there any discussion about not having any entryway off of grand river?
[18:25] no. There is a current. Curb cut there.
[18:30] yeah. They're just widening it and utilizing it.
[18:34] okay, so it's not, there's no additional curb cut. Correct.
[18:38] it's happening across all the two partials that are on the south side.
[18:43] no, there is an access. They're keeping their access in the same location.
[18:47] yeah, yeah. Why?
[19:01] actually, maybe they're not. There is one access.
[19:06] it would have gone to this house that is shown on our parcel viewer that's
[19:11] since been demolished. They're moving the act.
[19:17] you know what? Rather than guessing, give me a second. I'll show you how to do this.
[19:22] here, turn on the imagery. Okay. Please do. There we go.
[19:27] this is... Come on up and introduce yourself. They're going to ask questions
[19:32] of you anyway. So my name is jeff haddad. I'm from tailgaters, 1622
[19:38] west grand river. To clear this up, I believe there's two current curb cuts,
[19:43] and we're proposing to go down to one. So for all intents and
[19:48] purposes, you'd be sharing with bank of america? No, no. That's a completely different
[19:52] site. So there's the two old homes that were demolished on the site.
[19:57] there was, each one of those was serviced by its own drive. Oh, okay.
[20:02] thank you.
[20:07] this may be for mr. Chorky. Is there the possibility that
[20:12] we would just consolidate the curb cuts? I mean, so in this drawing
[20:17] here, the paper one, there's already two curb cuts.
[20:24] we're going to replace the one on the left with a bigger one,
[20:29] but there's already one just to the west of that on the other parcel.
[20:34] there's two cuts. That's their property.
[20:38] yeah. But it's still just a main entrance to a c2 space.
[20:44] yeah. So is there any way that we can just have used that and so we
[20:51] don't have multiple curb cuts in that same area? You don't have multiple curb
[20:55] cuts. They're going from two to one. No, I know.
[21:00] I'm saying if we think about this as a collective area, it's not.
[21:06] just those two parcels. Oh, you mean like with bank of america, etc.?
[21:10] we can't make them connect. No. We can't force an access easement
[21:15] on an adjacent property. Yeah, I'm not proposing that, that we can force anyone. But I don't, I mean,
[21:20] we were just talking
[21:25] about the traffic, and we were talking about how there's going
[21:30] to be more traffic, and there's going to be requirements for people
[21:34] to turn off and on into this developed space. Yeah. There's already a developed
[21:40] space right next to it. Why do we need two entry points to commercial area?
[21:46] I don't understand the question. So you've got this access here
[21:53] that goes to this site. You've got this access that goes to the sparrow. There are two drives
[21:58] on the property right now. Think of it as one property, although it's just two parcels.
[22:02] they're proposing to take two. Drives and make one out of it,
[22:07] albeit a larger commercial. We can't force interconnectivity between
[22:14] private landowners. I don't understand the concern. It looks like they have a road
[22:21] connecting the two parking lots, if I'm reading the site
[22:25] line correctly. Yeah, you're right. They have a proposed road that
[22:30] would connect the two. You do have a proposed road. Can you explain?
[22:35] no, I believe that was required by the township, if I'm not mistaken.
[22:40] but we certainly don't need it. Is there not an ordinance that
[22:51] calls for it? I'd have to go back and look
[22:57] to see. That might be a requirement of the corridor improvement.
[23:01] there's a corridor improvement overlay district. That's going on here has to do
[23:06] with access, but they still need their own entrance.
[23:11] like that's a connection. It's only 25 feet wide.
[23:15] I mean, a little follow-up on this is mdot,
[23:21] I've worked extensively with mdot over the last year as we've looked at this site.
[23:26] they're well aware of the traffic study. The way the the approach is
[23:31] designed right now was right out of mdot's book. They sent me a book
[23:35] of designs and said, use this design. Here it is.
[23:40] this is what you get. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I can understand that as well.
[23:45] and I'm trying to think outside
[23:50] the box slightly here and saying that one
[23:55] of the underlying goals is to reduce curb cuts. And because the more curb cuts
[23:59] we have, then the more entry points there are, where there's more
[24:04] people slowing down on grand river, where you're going
[24:09] over 45. So if there's a place that's getting ready
[24:14] to be developed, and there's almost no development on it,
[24:18] and there is already a curb cut, that according to this design,
[24:23] it can't be... Well, I don't know how far away it is.
[24:28] it may be 20 feet away on the west side.
[24:33] I don't really see why there couldn't be a possibility of a shared entryway
[24:37] into these areas. We can't make bank of america share their entrance.
[24:43] they're required to have their own entrance. It's grand river avenue.
[24:48] I understand we can't make them do it. I get that.
[24:53] okay. So I'm throwing this out there. And the public hearing as a
[24:57] possibility.
[25:08] in the meantime, I think, commissioner mcconnell, you've
[25:13] been waiting. I think you had a comment. I feel really picky now that
[25:19] I've focused my eyes enough to see that that's a concrete pathway running very faintly
[25:24] through the drawing. So I found my pathway.
[25:28] you found your pathway. Yes. Pathway is shown on the plan
[25:34] thank you we show a pathway from the grand reserve as well as from grand river as well we love sidewalks I would love
[25:39] to hear you explain circulation on this site is that something we can move to yes I will say
[25:45] and whatever else you'd like to yeah perfect a little history about me is I operate
[25:49] the other four tailgaters in the lansing area we've got a fifth one under construction here
[25:55] in williamston I've been in the business for 26 years now I started in high school,
[26:00] grew up here in meridian township, lived the first 32 years here in meridian
[26:05] township. I've always loved this community, always wished
[26:09] to have a store somewhere in here, and this looks like a great opportunity here.
[26:13] so your question about the circulation of the site, this site is very,
[26:19] very similar to the last two sites that we've done.
[26:23] the building size is going to be just under 10,000 square feet again, I think 9,800.
[26:27] same number of fueling stations as the last two that we've
[26:33] done. So the delta township project that opened in 2025 also had
[26:38] the 16 fueling stations. And then same with the one in williamston.
[26:43] that one's also being built right now with 16 fueling stations.
[26:48] that's what helps make the site economically viable for us. Anything less than that and it
[26:53] would become cost prohibitive. The cost of building nowadays is...
[26:58] I mean, you probably know it's extreme, so that just adds to the bottom line
[27:02] for us. I'm also super curious
[27:06] about the business itself. When I hear drive-thru,
[27:11] what sorts of products can you pick up drive-thru? So we pride ourselves
[27:16] on being a one-stop shop, whether it's grocery, convenience items.
[27:21] at some of our other locations, we've got a full-service dunkin' donuts with a drive-thru.
[27:26] we have not identified the restaurant user at this site yet, but it'll be a national brand,
[27:31] somebody that you're familiar with, somebody that you'll be proud of, and obviously you'll hear
[27:36] about that when we go to site plan approval. You do sell liquor?
[27:40] we do, yep. The pack is out the front door. What was that? Does that drive
[27:47] through as well? No, it's a packaged liquor inside sales only. Yeah, the michigan liquor
[27:52] control commission would have their work. They would now like that.
[27:58] I think a buddy of mine grew up someplace where that was a thing. But if you could talk more
[28:02] about the connectivity that you were talking about, the pathways and stuff. Yep.
[28:07] so we're a big fan of sidewalks, and we've got a sidewalk coming from grand river for any
[28:12] of the guests that want to visit us from the apartments
[28:16] across the street. We have not reached a deal with the property owner of the grand reserve,
[28:21] but we've reached out to him and suggested the pathway and the access agreement
[28:26] with the road. We don't think it'll be a problem, but we're working
[28:31] with him. Is that the everwood lane? It is, yep.
[28:35] and then you can see that we've got an access drive to central park as well.
[28:40] so just like mdot, I've worked very closely with
[28:45] ingham county road
[28:49] department, giving them preliminary looks, asking
[28:55] for feedback on what the approach should look like, and we've incorporated all of those things
[28:59] into that approach as well. Commissioner mcconnell? And the other small step that we're thinking might be a
[29:04] turnaround, is that like for snow clearance or something? It's just keeping an open mind to what that might be
[29:09] in the future. There's no plans whatsoever for that vacant piece.
[29:14] along central park, but just keeping our options open. Cool.
[29:19] so you compared this a little bit to the delta township new
[29:24] build from a couple years ago? Yep.
[29:29] it seems different. If I'm remembering the delta township one, there's not a ton
[29:33] around that one. There's kind of, you've got a freeway, right,
[29:37] and that's just kind of you guys right there, right? Yes.
[29:42] so to me, this is a little markedly different because it's in...
[29:46] a pretty high traffic area already, so I don't know if I'm necessarily asking a question, but I guess I'm just
[29:51] challenging the idea that it's similar because it is, to me, just geographically different.
[29:55] so when the traffic study was completed, the same engineer that did that traffic study was the one that did the traffic
[30:00] studies for all... All three of our previous locations.
[30:05] so he's very familiar with the traffic counts that we generate and took everything like that into consideration.
[30:13] I was with the commissioner mcconnell who's our resident traffic study because as the
[30:17] understand this but I keep I was at the front there's two traffic studies
[30:22] there's a study and then there's a or in the ordinance there's a traffic assessment
[30:27] assessment and then there's a study and then if the assessment shows that a lot
[30:31] that they propose if the potential traffic rises to a certain level that whole blown
[30:36] study that goes to a study. Okay, we did it in a more tech you went right
[30:40] to study we went right to the study because I reached out to them for preliminary guidance and they said do the
[30:44] study study the what I usually do in your packet to keep the pages down.
[30:49] I take all the appendix is out there this was a this was a full study.
[30:54] yeah. Yeah I say that all saying that I wouldn't understand, like I
[30:58] can read the traffic studies as many times as I want. I don't come out with any greater understanding.
[31:06] commissioner shusberry. I'm looking at the memo and it says it's two parcels.
[31:12] is that actually three parcels or is it two? There are three parcels. I'm sorry about that.
[31:17] that's okay. But the acreage, the 2.4?
[31:22] accurate is the 2.4 just the two that front on grand river and the um...
[31:27] no, this is 8 something. Can I address something that was brought up earlier that
[31:32] pertains to that question? Yes. Okay.
[31:37] so earlier it was talked about the three parcels and yes we intend to combine all three into one parcel.
[31:42] and that's going to be the total of 8.665 acres or something right
[31:47] in that ballpark. And then I know you mentioned...
[31:52] you may. You don't have plans yet for
[31:57] that back parcel up front onto central park, but for mr.
[32:01] shorkey, if they do combine those three parcels and then decide to build,
[32:05] I see it's sort of faintly the setbacks are listed in that back part there.
[32:11] would that be considered like one development and the total square footage would need
[32:16] to be considered for usage, or is it? Two buildings, one parcel.
[32:21] combining those parcels, would that put any constraints on what could be developed? Right.
[32:26] so if they're going to move parcel lines around, they can go to three to two.
[32:31] if you went to three to two, then it would save them the land division in the future.
[32:35] and the setbacks would be calculated from the one of the
[32:40] setbacks that you're seeing on there is the required 100-foot
[32:46] setback. From residential, that's a
[32:50] constraint that's inherent to the c2 zone.
[32:54] that's still going to be there, but other than that...
[33:00] and my apologies, you did bring up a good point. We do intend to split this into
[33:05] two parcels and not one parcel. The grand river and the central park.
[33:09] exactly. That makes sense. But it's a simple administrative process
[33:15] to do that. Okay. But the detention area would span across the two parcels
[33:19] right now combined no no no that would stay fully
[33:24] on our parcel but we are building a little extra into our detention pond
[33:29] for a possible for whatever that land might be at some point commissioner oh
[33:34] yeah a number of small things so um you have here everwood lane um is that the same as elmwood road
[33:39] on the parcel viewer because I just want to make sure that, um...
[33:44] where are you? North.
[33:50] um, so if you, um, if you zoom
[33:54] out a little bit, it's,
[34:00] um... And if you turn on the, um... Yeah, let me get rid
[34:05] of the... Because it looks
[34:09] like the offshoot from woodland way is...
[34:14] that's... Okay, yes, yes, thank you. Yeah, so there's elmwood road.
[34:19] okay, there's elmwood road. Right. Okay, and in the site plan, it's called everwood.
[34:24] everwood. You've got everwood. Okay. Not a big thing.
[34:29] I just wanted to make sure that those are the same thing. Yeah, simple fix. Another thing is, so
[34:34] on the connection to grand river, hamilton road is, like, directly across
[34:38] from your entrance. Are you expecting people to come from hamilton road and
[34:43] go straight across? Grand river and access your property? So I'm not too familiar
[34:48] with that, but that is exactly where mdot required the one entrance we were permitted.
[34:53] that was just a hard, you get it here and that's take it or leave it.
[34:57] right. Now, my question was concerning because right now the entrance
[35:01] from grand river, you don't have like a large triangular median
[35:05] to like force right turns as the only access. I'm just worried that without that, people from
[35:11] hamilton may try to like just beeline across
[35:15] grand river. They would be crazier than I am.
[35:21] so just to clarify, we are permitted a left turn into the site as well from
[35:26] grand river. And that's why it's not completely like a pork chop shape
[35:31] like you see some. Okay, right. You've got a left turn movement here.
[35:35] exactly. Okay. From the center turn. Exactly.
[35:39] okay. And then kind of the last question I had is, can you speak to why you need
[35:44] 10, or sorry, yeah, 10 pumps instead of... 16.
[35:48] yeah, sorry, 16. Eight pumps, 16 stations instead of 10.
[35:53] so just based on market research that we've done from other...
[35:58] from our other stations. You know, I work inside each of the locations every day. I'm in boots
[36:03] on the ground. I look out the window. I see how many vehicles are fueling.
[36:07] you guys have a great community here. I think this is going to be a busy location for us.
[36:12] I think anything less than 16 fueling stations would be underserved and really detract
[36:17] from the economic benefit of putting a site here. Thank you.
[36:21] what's the economic benefit for putting the site here?
[36:26] just because it's good, I believe it's going to be a good location.
[36:32] I think the community is going to benefit from it. I think a lot of people
[36:37] like our services. We provide a clean, bright, well-kept establishment,
[36:42] the best landscaping, the best facilities. I think your community would
[36:49] embrace it. I think there's a reason why there's nobody here not
[36:54] supporting or showing. I intend to come back to that question. One of the benefits that the
[37:00] township does see in this, and I think I noted in the staff report,
[37:05] this is the first gas station on the north side of grand river between williamston and
[37:10] east lansing. So at the moment,
[37:15] if you're traveling west on grand river and you need to stop for gas, every one of
[37:19] those movements is a left turn. We see it as a tremendous benefit
[37:24] for travelers that they're going to be able to have a north side access and make a
[37:29] simple right turn into something. I don't want to get
[37:33] into specifics. They're not the only ones thinking about this. They're just the first one
[37:37] through the door. So, mr.
[37:43] strick, I have one. This is probably better for you because this goes back
[37:47] to what I'm going to call the notice provision you kind of mentioned. So you noticed...
[37:51] grand reserve by probably noticing the management company, right? Because that's an apartment
[37:56] complex. I sent it to their main office on site. On site.
[38:02] oh, right. So their office on site.
[38:07] oh, yeah. Were there any other residences, homes, things that were within that
[38:12] 300 foot? How about this? Let me try this another way.
[38:22] how many letters did you send out? Offhand in the... Wall to 15.
[38:27] yeah. 300 feet out. You can see that that's one,
[38:31] that's one, two, three, you
[38:35] know, it's sparrow, drain commission.
[38:40] yeah. Yeah.
[38:45] and then of course the public notice. The public. Yes.
[38:51] yeah. Yeah. I grant that.
[38:56] it's. It sounds like you fully complied with the notice requirement,
[39:01] but I was just thinking a little bit like, yes, I notice. When you put something
[39:07] in a department complex, you put it in a place where you expect residents to go.
[39:13] it's not an individual notice to each resident. Right.
[39:20] and there really is no other truly residential area. No. Okay. Commissioner mcconnell.
[39:24] my first question to the applicant was poorly phrased. Planner shirky, could you pull up the site plan again,
[39:29] please? I'll pull it up. It's old, but it's okay. I think it'll still work. Okay.
[39:34] kind of zoom in on kind of the main building site that shows
[39:40] the entrances and exits. Zoom out just a little bit more, please.
[39:47] okay. You or the applicant could help
[39:51] us understand how a car comes in southbound on grand river, or westbound on grand river,
[39:56] and gets gas and then goes through or goes through the
[40:00] drive-thru. And how it then leaves that
[40:04] would really help I think because this is small and I think I understand it but I don't.
[40:10] so everything on our site is tailgater sizes I like to say these are not 24 foot wide dual way dual traffic
[40:15] everything on the site is designed to be big and comfortable and
[40:21] spacious there's plenty of room to turn around everywhere you look most drive
[40:26] aisles on commercial developments are 24 feet they try and pack
[40:30] everything in there so tight and and save space. That's not the way this site is designed.
[40:34] this site is designed spaciously, and I don't think it's too much space.
[40:39] it's just the right amount. If I might interrupt you. Yep.
[40:44] if I'm coming down this map, coming into east lansing or into meridian township, and I
[40:51] turn right off of grand river and go to the drive-thru,
[40:56] can you? I think I see like six cars stacked at the drive-thru.
[41:02] is that correct? And then there's a service station that shows one car,
[41:07] and then there's a pass-through for people who aren't using the drive-through,
[41:11] who are just leaving the site. Am I understanding that correctly? Sorry, I'm having a little
[41:16] trouble following where you were going with that. Can I? Yeah.
[41:21] I think you're reading it right. So you come in and you get your gas, right?
[41:25] you're going to come around this side of the building, so this would be the east side
[41:30] of the building. You'd get in line here. And then you see this... I think that's actually the
[41:35] exit. No. Okay, sorry. This is your pickup.
[41:39] so you come here... This is drive-through stacking space. Right.
[41:44] right there. That's where they're stacking, waiting for their... Well, no,
[41:49] this is landscaping. This is the building.
[41:53] okay, that's the pickup right there. It is a dual drive-through, just like mcdonald's has,
[41:58] where you can order from two different points. Does that help? Thank you very much.
[42:02] yeah. Because that makes so much more sense for how you would then leave the site.
[42:07] if I had to go in the other way, you'd be driving in circles. No, that makes thank you.
[42:16] vice chairman curtis? Yeah, so if I'm traveling east on grand river, what is the
[42:22] best way to enter? You can turn right in or you can turn left in
[42:27] from the center lane. Right. But the way that, so the
[42:31] entrance, because you got the exit lane that's cut where
[42:36] you're leaving, you're forced to make a right turn.
[42:42] so this right here, if you can see the cursor,
[42:46] is the exit onto grand river. Right.
[42:50] and then if you were coming east along grand river, heading up this way, you can turn left in here, same as somebody
[42:56] turning right. Okay.
[43:02] and that's exactly what I was looking at. I was just making sure that the way that you're traveling west
[43:07] and you're turning right, that that's not just for the people turning right.
[43:12] you're turning left. You need to have, is that going to be big enough for folks to turn left?
[43:18] it is. Not at the same time, obviously.
[43:22] you've got to wait your turn. But the reason I'm asking that question is because, and I know you all don't have anything
[43:27] to do with this, but like the bank of america site. That's awkward when you're
[43:31] trying to turn in left. Yep. And so that's what I was
[43:35] asking, is that awkwardness is going to be there?
[43:40] I don't know if bank of america, you can turn left in there. Yeah, I don't think it's
[43:44] allowed at bank of america. Yeah, well, allowed versus done are two different things. Right.
[43:48] I may have done that today. It's traffic. I mean, when people drive going traveling west, east,
[43:56] am I saying that right? Yeah, traveling east on grand river.
[44:01] in to bank of america, I gotta go to the bank. And then you gotta turn left. I mean that, you know, I've done it.
[44:06] so, um... I hope mr. Shurkey you do not release
[44:10] these videos to the meridian township police department. The police chief is not
[44:14] watching. Because you're stuck. You're like, okay, left turn,
[44:19] you're in the center lane. Anyway, you answered my question.
[44:23] thank you.
[44:29] I watch people turn left out of meyer on a rapid rate.
[44:34] I have another question. Commissioner brock. For the, can you, so you're,
[44:40] I'm concerned about the parking and the, that you want to have,
[44:45] that this is going to be a spacious space. And the reason is not because I
[44:50] think, I don't want to dictate what is
[44:54] on this spot, but because some of the goals in our master plan are to
[44:59] maintain our environment here locally and so the more parking
[45:05] lots we have, that leads to more runoff from asphalt.
[45:10] and so my goal is to try and reduce parking by as much as possible.
[45:15] so this next question is, for the other tailgaters that you have around the lansing area,
[45:21] what is the utilization of the parking lots that you have?
[45:26] so dewitt is 106. Holt has 101.
[45:31] delta township has 65, but delta township also has a much
[45:36] larger parking lot with impervious surfaces. The okemos location I didn't
[45:40] even count just because it shares a lot with culver's, and that would be a lot harder
[45:46] to judge off of. But those three sites are just a restaurant user,
[45:50] a tailgaters gas station, and that's why I included those.
[45:55] and so we are proposing 80 here, and I believe that's justified because this is a
[46:01] much busier corridor. I think that this location will
[46:05] generate more traffic than those other ones.
[46:11] yeah, so there may be more traffic than the other ones, but my question, though,
[46:16] is what's your utilization of the parking at the other locations?
[46:20] so how often is that parking lot actually full to the maximum capacity?
[46:24] so I feel regularly enough to dictate putting in 80 spots. Asphalt's expensive.
[46:30] it's expensive to store the water that that impervious surface generates.
[46:35] I don't want to put in any more parking spots than I need. That's why I suggest 80.
[46:39] it is expensive, though. Yes?
[46:45] my name is emily johnson.
[46:49] come on out here. You've got to say your address. My name is emily johnson.
[46:54] I'm also with tailgaters. I've worked at tailgaters for 10 years, and I've worked at every single location.
[46:59] I can tell you very confidently that 80 spaces will be utilized, hands down.
[47:05] on a busy saturday, we can employ between 15 and 20 people, peak hours.
[47:10] so that's just employee. That's not even customer.
[47:15] and on top of that, if you come for breakfast, I don't know if any of you have ever come
[47:19] for breakfast to any of our locations on a weekend. They're busy.
[47:24] every spot is full. Every gas pump is full. The parking is justified, I can promise you.
[47:29] if not, we could even benefit from more. That's my take on it. Can I, I know this is not
[47:34] relevant, sorry I'm not a good public speaker. You're doing great. Thank you.
[47:39] can I touch on the benefit to the community that was asked a little bit?
[47:45] so I'm not from here, but I lived at hamilton trace for four years.
[47:49] I went to college here too in east lansing. I'm a big bike rider.
[47:56] I know what it's like to be a college student, and I think there's a lot
[48:02] of college students in the area. When I lived there, there's gas stations, but there's nothing like a
[48:07] tailgaters. There's nothing like going to a tailgaters, being able to find your lunch, have a place
[48:12] to do your homework, get a coffee, get a job. And for people that live at
[48:16] grand reserve, I kind of think back to my childhood. I used to go on bike rides
[48:20] to go get ice cream with my mom. I see people doing that with grand reserve.
[48:25] I can totally see families saying, hey, let's get on our bikes, let's go to tailgaters
[48:30] for a special treat tonight. Let's do that. And I see the huge benefit to a community here.
[48:34] you know, we're more than just a gas station. We're big family people,
[48:38] too. Jeff got into this as a result of his father, who's been
[48:42] in the business even longer. We're really family-operated. Every single store is operated by a family member.
[48:48] we're obviously out of family members at this point.
[48:54] but him and I still go to every store.
[48:58] maddie over here, she's worked with us for just as long. We hired her as a high school
[49:02] student, and we would love to hire more high school students. It's a great employment opportunity for a lot
[49:07] of people in the area. I mean, especially for high school kids
[49:12] in this area, college kids in this area, who can take the bus, who can walk
[49:16] from their house at their apartment nearby, or ride their bike from grand reserve.
[49:21] I see a lot of benefit here for a lot of people.
[49:25] that's my two cents. Commissioner neumann? Yeah, two questions.
[49:30] so I don't see any additional signage listed on your site plan. Are you going
[49:34] to only have signage attached to the building, especially the fueling canopy, I presume?
[49:39] there will be signage on the building, the fuel canopy, and then there should
[49:44] be a monument sign proposed, and that might just not be shown on your, if you look
[49:49] on the 11 by 14 that you were handed. You can see a tiny little dot
[49:53] right in the front of the site. That's more visible and called out on other site plans that
[49:58] are probably not in your packet, but you've got access to them.
[50:02] it's there. The other question is, is there any electric vehicle charging
[50:07] at any of your tailgater locations? Is that something you would consider?
[50:11] so not at this point, but we do have conduit installed underneath the concrete for
[50:16] future use should the need ever arise. Right now we just haven't seen the benefit or the payoff,
[50:22] so we haven't done it yet, but we do have the ability at some of the locations to install that.
[50:27] yeah, because if people are coming there for meals, I can imagine that there might be demand for that,
[50:31] but yeah that's something yep, you're right on. Do you intend
[50:35] to put that same, I'm going to call it an outlet, an outlet to build out
[50:39] at the site? You said you mentioned having the evs.
[50:44] you have evability at other sites, right? Is that what you were saying?
[50:49] but you need to build it out to get there. Exactly. We have to install the
[50:54] infrastructure underground. We've got extra capacity on our transformer and things of that nature.
[50:58] but, no, we have not actually pulled the trigger on any infrastructure yet. Okay.
[51:03] same intent here, or are you saying this is... Same intent here.
[51:07] we haven't seen the value in installing it just yet. Yeah, yeah.
[51:11] but we're always evaluating and not opposed to it in any way. Okay.
[51:18] commissioner mcconnell? Please come back and talk more
[51:22] about bike racks. Seriously, more of a suggestion.
[51:27] I very much see an uptick in my own neighborhood.
[51:32] a mile away in kids and parents riding bikes.
[51:37] more and more and more electric. So as you build out that infrastructure,
[51:42] probably a good idea to think about where they'll put those vehicles when they get there.
[51:47] it's getting people out and about, and that's great. Yeah, brian brought that up
[51:51] right before the meeting, and we agreed to install eight bike racks instead
[51:56] of whatever's on the plan at six. Fantastic.
[52:04] two for me, ms. Johnson was it? That was a great story. So keep your public speaking
[52:09] up. You had me at the biking to get ice cream.
[52:13] I think that's a wonderful way to do it. And then I don't know if mr.
[52:17] shirky told you, sir, I get big on restaurants. So you say a national
[52:23] recognizable restaurant, keep it in the back
[52:30] of your head, maybe something local, god help us. I say that not for you
[52:35] to answer, but I'm just putting it out there. You really want to see jeff's
[52:40] chicken shack? We have enough chicken shacks. If I'm opening something, it's going to be like a ci
[52:44] bowls because I think there's a market for that. But not, you know, no.
[52:49] I keep asking for better restaurants. So any other questions,
[52:55] comments from the commissioners? I have one.
[52:59] commissioner snyder. So the only sign that you mentioned,
[53:03] the only monument sign is off of grand river, no additional signage off of central park to direct people in
[53:09] off that entrance? Good point, yes. We would be proposing one somewhere along central park as
[53:13] well, as long as that's, I'd have to check with the sign folks, but yeah.
[53:18] all the signage, of course, would be finalized during the site plan review, but it's a good question,
[53:23] something to keep in mind. Obviously it makes sense, you know, direct people off of central park.
[53:28] central park rather than turn on the grand river to find it. Now that you put the idea
[53:33] in my head, the other place I would crave would be to have a sonic.
[53:37] of all things. I really want a cherry limeade in the worst way, like daily.
[53:42] should we all put in our suggestions? Yes. And then vote.
[53:46] restaurants from a hat, we'll just put them in there and we'll pull. Sir, I thank you for your time
[53:51] and answering the commissioner's questions. And I understand uh this is just the initial public hearing
[53:56] and we have to bring this back at the next meeting sounds good I I appreciate everything and
[54:01] uh yeah I think you'll be pleased with the development in particular you uh jeff mr uh
[54:05] bomb back I think I think we're we will not disappoint you you will not disappoint me and I
[54:09] hope this uh yeah that's all I want to say thanks, brian. Of course.
[54:14] you'll be pleased. Okay.
[54:20] is that a hint? Can you get a limeade?
[54:24] you going on the way here every day? I'm all about cherry limeades.
[54:30] yeah, they got one in lansing, right? They got the sonic in lansing, didn't they?
[54:35] no? No. I thought there was one in lansing. No, there isn't.
[54:39] oh, alright. Shows you what I know. Um, moving on. Typically, you give staff some
[54:44] direction. You don't make a formal vote. Oh, yes, that's right.
[54:48] um, so this would be, this is what we call a soft, or a... Straw bowl.
[54:53] straw bowl. Straw bowl. All right, so, because I do have to write a resolution
[54:57] for your next meeting. So, a straw poll for those commissioners that would be voting to approve the special
[55:03] use permit for 260.
[55:07] have you been tailgaters? No. Strawpole, sorry. Are we putting yes? Yes.
[55:12] yes. Fine. I'm not going to say, you know,
[55:17] planning commission indicated by strawpole. Yeah. Yeah, and I'll write a
[55:21] resolution. That's all the minutes will say. I'm still learning this job,
[55:25] mr. Scherke. Yeah, that's okay. That's why I'm here.
[55:29] with that we can move to... You guys don't have to. We welcome you
[55:35] but you don't have to. But thank you. We really appreciate it.
[55:39] thank you. And with that we can move to b under public hearing. I'll be in touch.
[55:45] za26002, chicken. Unless you want to talk about chicken ordinances.
[55:49] okay.
[55:56] this is pretty self-explanatory. There's no changes from the
[56:02] draft. I do have some numbers I want to share,
[56:06] though. I was curious about the effect
[56:10] of adding districts. So we currently allow backyard
[56:16] chickens in our raaa, raa, and ra zones.
[56:22] that's on the books, okay? We currently have roughly 08,770 parcels that our
[56:30] ordinance applies to. That they're eligible to apply
[56:38] for backyard chickens. Note that that's over half our parcels
[56:43] in our township. Those don't change. If this passes in its form,
[56:49] you'd be adding the rb and the rx districts. That's another 1,800 or so
[56:54] parcels.
[56:59] so you'd go from 87.7 to
[57:09] 10.6. Again, that's not, I thought that would be interesting to see, you know,
[57:14] is this a lot of effect, is this not a lot of effect?
[57:18] rough math, is that 15, 17% somewhere in there? What?
[57:24] the expansion. So you're talking about adding 800 to 8700.
[57:28] I'm doing some... It's about 15 to 18%. Yeah.
[57:34] using parcels, though, is the math a little difficult,
[57:38] though, because they're different sizes. So it's probably maybe more
[57:43] interesting to see what the actual space ramifications are.
[57:50] the 800 number was 1,000 acres, and then this additional group
[57:59] raised that 1,000 acres to 02,000 acres.
[58:03] I'm not saying that is the outcome. They can only put chicken per acre.
[58:08] this was a quick and easy calculation. Chicken per acre? I hear what you're saying,
[58:13] but... Yes, the math is a lot harder.
[58:22] I would turn it over to our gis
[58:30] professional and ask them to do some kind of analysis at that point, but this was a
[58:35] quick and easy question. Mr.
[58:41] cherky, as a rb and rx on a comparative density
[58:45] to raa and ra, are rb and rx more dense or less dense?
[58:49] they are more dense. More than. Single family in both
[58:54] of those districts is 8,000 square feet. The ra is the closest.
[58:59] the minimum lot size in the ra district is 10,000 square feet,
[59:03] and then it goes up from there. Okay.
[59:08] go ahead. Sorry. Nope. Didn't mean to interrupt you.
[59:14] so the rv district,
[59:21] is that what we were proposing for the... Large area that was just north
[59:25] of the tailgaters property that we just looked at, or north and east. The I development?
[59:29] the I development. We were proposing that that was going to be an rv district. No, that was a multifamily
[59:34] district.
[59:41] so it's less dense than that. Well, it's more dense because it's multifamily.
[59:45] it's multifamily. Yeah, it's rd multifamily, right?
[59:49] yeah, that I development on central park development, that was a multifamily density.
[59:53] this is not including multifamily districts. The property that is already...
[59:59] ...developed adjacent to the multifamily proposal,
[1:00:07] that's zoned rb, is that correct?
[1:00:12] that is zoned...
[1:00:18] this is a quiz. Well, that is zoned ra. Ra, okay.
[1:00:23] yeah, so already allowed there. Yes, yes. And, I mean, for me here, those
[1:00:27] houses look pretty close together. Yeah.
[1:00:32] you'd be allowing... Chickens in a on a smaller lot than that yeah yeah that was
[1:00:44] partially the same the same standards apply though right
[1:00:49] you have 10 foot side setbacks for chicken coops and they got you know you're limited
[1:00:54] to four and they've got to be enclosed and all of the things uh one
[1:00:59] of the points that was raised at our last conversation is if the standard thank you.
[1:01:04] if they can meet the standards, you know, even if it's a smaller lot,
[1:01:09] you know, we have a standard in place. Oh, so like even if the zoning allows it,
[1:01:13] can you practically do it on your... Yeah, right. If you can't meet that 10-foot
[1:01:19] setback, then we're not going to give you the permit. I do want to point out,
[1:01:24] at the beginning of this conversation, we've since revamped our website.
[1:01:32] you I did come across, you know, we do permit, we do have a permit.
[1:01:36] we have a permit that has to be sent in. So somewhere we must have a
[1:01:40] record of how many legal chickens we have in the township.
[1:01:45] this is not a conversation I've had in a long time. Maybe more extremely hungry in legal chickens.
[1:01:50] but this just, but you're not going to get
[1:01:54] your permit if you can't meet the setbacks. You're not going to get the permit if you can't put them
[1:01:59] in a, whatever other restrictions there are. You're not going to get a
[1:02:04] permit if your homeowners association doesn't allow it. That is correct.
[1:02:08] my question is, how many homeowners associations even allow chickens?
[1:02:13] I don't have any idea. I'm guessing not many. I would guess that,
[1:02:17] but I do not know. It seems like the increase is marginal
[1:02:22] at best. In terms of going from 8,000, whatever, 100, to 10,000,
[1:02:28] whatever. I kind of feel that. I mean... This is a good example.
[1:02:33] yes, technically the zoning says it's allowed. I would suspect they've got a homeowner association that
[1:02:39] says, no, you're not, and that would trump. Anyway.
[1:02:44] commissioner shuspert. The communication that you
[1:02:48] handed out today seems to take a different interpretation
[1:02:53] of the number of restrictions than I did as we were
[1:02:57] discussing this, saying that you know, it only counts chickens
[1:03:02] of egg-laying age, and therefore if they got too old to lay eggs, then you could
[1:03:07] have as many as you wanted, and they wouldn't count. That's not going to happen.
[1:03:12] I didn't believe so. There's a minimum age we count them, and then we continue
[1:03:16] to count them. Do you feel that there's any need to clarify that? No.
[1:03:21] so an egg-laying age, I mean, I didn't take it that way, and as long as the permitting people are not taking it that
[1:03:26] way, or the, you know. Code compliance people. I feel very confident that we
[1:03:30] understand that once they're... That instrument needs for that person. Yeah.
[1:03:34] that's not what was intended. No. Thank you. Here's where I personally get
[1:03:39] caught because, as I've mentioned, I just left the presidency of my hoa board,
[1:03:44] but I consistently pointed to ordinances trumping hoa board rules.
[1:03:49] if we were going to go forward with this, I know this is probably late
[1:03:53] in the process, but I would have something that just says, you know...
[1:03:58] this ordinance is subservient to any hoa. Like, put it out there specifically.
[1:04:03] I don't need to. It doesn't have to say it, because it just is.
[1:04:07] and I hesitate to put something like that in black and white in an ordinance.
[1:04:13] I don't want to get the wrong impression, you know,
[1:04:17] because if our ordinance is more restrictive, then, you know.
[1:04:21] because it's like, I'm just thinking somebody files for their chicken permit,
[1:04:25] they get... Their permit for the chicken permit. They walk to their hoa and they
[1:04:29] say, hey, I'm putting chickens in. I've already got my ordinance
[1:04:33] permit. Our bylaws for where I live do not specifically prohibit chicken coops.
[1:04:38] they do have regulations around structures. One of the suggestions at the very beginning
[1:04:43] of this conversation is, should there be a requirement that if you live in an hoa that your
[1:04:47] application come with a letter, email, or some kind of communication
[1:04:52] from your hoa saying it's okay? And you didn't want
[1:04:56] to do that. That seemed okay,
[1:05:00] not a problem. We don't do this in a vacuum.
[1:05:05] vacuum, right? So we're going to look at the address that you're
[1:05:09] going to put on your application, and we'll tell you, you're going to have
[1:05:14] to go check with your hoa, but here you, you know. In that case, I do feel like it
[1:05:19] is not the township's responsibility
[1:05:23] to enforce hoa policy. Correct. Agreed. You would get your permit
[1:05:28] because you're legally allowed in the township to have this. If your hoa to which you
[1:05:33] subscribed and agreed to their bylaws or their covenants whatever says you can't and
[1:05:37] then they're responsible for taking action
[1:05:41] against you so I don't feel like we should have
[1:05:46] to be understanding the nuances of an hoa no we'll give them a warning to go check their hoa
[1:05:50] but we can't hold up a one of our permits over an hoa yeah I mean I think it would be kind
[1:05:54] and nice to people who are applying for a permit to say you may also want to check with your
[1:05:59] hoa because we have policies that may also apply in addition to the permitting that you need
[1:06:03] to do with us. But I don't want the township to be in the business of enforcing it.
[1:06:08] no, we are not. We are not. I'm sorry. Don't come out.
[1:06:12] no, I like what you did there. Okay, thank you.
[1:06:17] commissioner mcconnell. I have always understood the process
[1:06:21] of keeping chickens legally to be a matter of notifying the township.
[1:06:27] that I am aware of the rules and that I'm going
[1:06:31] to abide by them and I sign my name and that is a notice
[1:06:36] of registration. I've not heard before that a
[1:06:41] permit as such is issued. I'm using a word. My understanding is that when
[1:06:47] there's a complaint, right, the code enforcement officer then
[1:06:52] says, do you or do you not, did you or did you not notify us?
[1:06:57] and if you did, are you actually complying with the rules you signed on to?
[1:07:02] right. And if you're not, you can't do this anymore. I'm going to cut a weird thing
[1:07:06] because now I'm rethinking again and this is my fault. When you say, when I heard the term permit,
[1:07:11] that's one thing. That's the, here. Yeah, let's look at it.
[1:07:16] okay. Putting into the test with a
[1:07:27] new website. I know right. This is a thing.
[1:07:31] it's not like it though. I think I like the way it works and still got the great content.
[1:07:37] chicken and rabbit registration application. Okay.
[1:07:42] and there you go. See, here's name, address, telephone, email, and then
[1:07:48] here's all the things and like commissioner mcconnell was saying, you're going to sign
[1:07:52] you've read and understand the regulation sign and date.
[1:07:58] but it does specify what zones? Yes. So this would have to be
[1:08:02] updated to include the rb and rx. Thank you. Here's the line I'm potentially
[1:08:07] drawing here. There is, in my mind, a difference between a permit and a registration process.
[1:08:12] because a permit, to me, is an active process by which the township would have
[1:08:17] approved a chicken versus a
[1:08:22] registration, which is just, I'm telling you I have these and I'm going to comply.
[1:08:28] okay, but you're getting to the same place. You're giving us a piece
[1:08:36] of paper saying that I'm going to follow these rules. Right. I mean, I'm sorry if I use a different word.
[1:08:41] no, it's okay. I admit I'm nitpicking. This isn't a brian. This is a jeff thing.
[1:08:46] okay. Because I'm just thinking what would happen in my subdivision if somebody's going
[1:08:50] to come back with, if somebody comes in with a permit from the township, that's one
[1:08:55] thing, right? I have a permitted thing to do x versus.
[1:08:59] I registered with the township and then I would agree that the
[1:09:03] hoa could take separate action. You still could. You get to the same place.
[1:09:07] if the hoa says you can't have chickens in the backyard,
[1:09:12] I don't care if you got a permit from us or not. A building permit.
[1:09:16] sure. You know, you can come in and get a building permit and say,
[1:09:20] okay, I'm going to build this garage. Well, no, it's too big. By our rules, you need
[1:09:25] to make it smaller. And I've seen that happen a lot in my career. Okay.
[1:09:31] it's just not a chicken.
[1:09:35] somehow I think chickens might be more controversial than an oversized garage, but we'll take that
[1:09:40] for another day. Any other questions or questions for mr.
[1:09:45] sharkey?
[1:09:50] did I hear you volunteered to have the gis folks do a per acre calculation?
[1:09:54] no, I didn't volunteer. That's what I heard.
[1:09:59] mr. Brooks asked for it.
[1:10:04] I'm just kidding. So at this point would we be,
[1:10:08] so this is unfinished business, theoretically we would finish this business today with a vote.
[1:10:13] no, this is a public hearing. Yes. I will come back to the next meeting
[1:10:18] with a resolution if that's okay with you. And we can move this forward.
[1:10:22] seeing no public comments. With that,
[1:10:31] we will close the public hearing at 739.
[1:10:37] not sure I ever opened it with a specific time, but we'll do that at 7.39, and
[1:10:42] then we can move to parking ordinance updates under our insurance business.
[1:10:48] okay.
[1:10:56] I watched the meeting really close.
[1:11:01] I tried to give some information where it seemed like you needed it.
[1:11:08] I didn't hear a lot of questions.
[1:11:12] I did note this on the thing about the parking maximums.
[1:11:17] since our last meeting, I did
[1:11:21] attend the dda meeting and they raised these points.
[1:11:27] you know, initiating a parking maximum will increase number of variances.
[1:11:31] we discussed that. New parking maximum will create several non-conforming uses.
[1:11:36] we've discussed that. Developers and business people generally know how much traffic
[1:11:41] to expect. We've discussed that, etc.,
[1:11:45] etc. Then I made this point.
[1:11:50] we already have a parking maximum for a lot of our developments.
[1:11:56] this is not new language. This was in our parking ordinance,
[1:12:01] and then it was still in our parking ordinance when we updated our numbers last year.
[1:12:05] we have for... What we did update were the
[1:12:10] size of the centers. We went from like four or five business centers to two.
[1:12:14] that was changed. But the numbers are basically five to five and a half spaces
[1:12:19] for 1,000 feet, or for the larger ones, over 25,000 square feet,
[1:12:25] which are a special use permit, by the way, four to four and a half spaces per
[1:12:30] 01,000 square feet. That is why trader joe's had
[1:12:34] to get a variant. I am not in a position
[1:12:43] to make recommendations to you. However, staff no longer sees a
[1:12:49] need for the 20% maximum. We have this mechanism
[1:12:54] in our ordinance, and we've got two boards that are not
[1:12:59] in favor of it. Having said that, it is your
[1:13:03] ordinance, not theirs. I have no other comment
[1:13:07] on this ordinance at this time, and I'm open to more questions.
[1:13:12] questions for mr. Torky.
[1:13:16] commissioner brock. I appreciate all the effort that's been taken and looked
[1:13:21] at this, and definitely talking to the dda and cia, and I
[1:13:26] appreciate all the work that's gone into it, so thank you.
[1:13:37] I'm going to be slightly annoying probably with my comments, but hopefully
[1:13:42] not too annoying. So I hear the argument
[1:13:50] against the parking maximum,
[1:13:58] and I think that most of the points against the
[1:14:02] parking maximum can also be made about parking minimum. So whenever we change the
[1:14:10] parking ordinance, it's going to create non-conforming properties, right?
[1:14:17] changing the ordinance by
[1:14:24] changing the maximum or minimum is going to change the variances potentially
[1:14:29] on the number of variances that we get. In some ways, putting in...
[1:14:35] an ordinance creates a certain
[1:14:41] level of slowdown, and so people have to make a decision about whether or not they want
[1:14:46] to push back against that or not, and many people don't. It happens the same thing
[1:14:50] with the sign ordinance. So we have sign ordinances, and some groups ask
[1:14:54] for variances and some don't, and they just move on with it.
[1:15:05] the point that developers and business people are generally
[1:15:09] know how much traffic to expect and are capable of
[1:15:13] determining how much parking they need, I think I've addressed that as well
[1:15:18] regarding the parking minimums. There are communities that are getting rid of the minimums,
[1:15:24] and the same thing could be said for the maximum. But the purpose
[1:15:29] of a maximum is to have an ordinance mechanism
[1:15:33] across the board that would basically allow us
[1:15:38] to create a barrier to the
[1:15:43] parking because we have limited space here in the community and we're
[1:15:48] built in a swampy area. And so the idea
[1:15:54] of limiting the asphalt seems like a good long-term thing to try and do.
[1:16:00] and at least in my mind,
[1:16:04] the parking maximum at this point seems like a reasonable way
[1:16:08] of doing that. The limitation on the developer
[1:16:13] constructing extra parking
[1:16:18] in case of future expansion, I think that's still
[1:16:23] on the table if they need to request a variance.
[1:16:37] the point about stringent environmental regulations
[1:16:42] for this area, I think some of those things do come from the drain commissioner's
[1:16:47] office and we also have our own.
[1:16:52] I'm not disputing that we have those in place in order to protect the community and also to support the master plan's
[1:16:57] initiatives. And then the last point about
[1:17:02] mandatory parking requirements based on other regulatory requirements and the conflict
[1:17:10] there, that is also possible and can
[1:17:15] also, I think, be said about any other ordinance that we would determine to put
[1:17:21] in place. If there are specific ones that
[1:17:26] need to be addressed, I think that would be...
[1:17:31] worthwhile to explore, but I don't know of any one specifically.
[1:17:37] so with all that being said, I hear what folks are saying, and I think that the 20% could
[1:17:46] be moved up or down. I think it is a good mechanism
[1:17:50] to have in place. I like the 20% myself. So I just wanted
[1:17:59] to make those comments. Mr.
[1:18:08] mcconnell? I, too, scratched my head a bit about other regulatory requirements.
[1:18:13] are we aware of any other regulatory requirements? The concern was brought up
[1:18:18] by the owner of... I'm sorry, the hair place
[1:18:27] in the okemos area. Douglas j. Douglas j., thank you,
[1:18:32] thank you. They're licensed by the state,
[1:18:37] and they have to have a certain number of parking spaces per chair.
[1:18:44] it turns out they have 22 chairs right now. Is that also common to medical
[1:18:49] license? I don't know. I don't know that. But it might be.
[1:18:54] I've never heard that before, but apparently it's a thing. Now, in her specific case, they
[1:19:00] have a big shared parking. That's not an issue for her per se,
[1:19:05] but it might be for another. And I don't know where those
[1:19:10] regulatory requirements would be. I do not work for lara.
[1:19:17] I'm not being cheeky. I've never heard of that before, but now that
[1:19:23] it's something I have heard of, I don't know where else that might crop up in the future.
[1:19:38] I mean, is it possible that there could be a statement in the ordinance that says
[1:19:43] something to the effect of, if
[1:19:48] state or federal level parking requirements push up the
[1:19:59] maximum or go beyond the maximum percentage, then staff may act accordingly?
[1:20:05] this maximum may be waived if more parking is required by
[1:20:10] outside regulatory agencies. Yeah. I think so, yes.
[1:20:15] that's a possibility.
[1:20:20] commissioner shusbury. Getting to the very last note, not the
[1:20:24] bullet, but the text below the bullet where it noted that several commercial
[1:20:29] developments, including retail uses, fall under the general commercial category and that
[1:20:35] it's already there. How many commercial uses
[1:20:41] wouldn't necessarily, because we'd be regulating on the margins if we did this.
[1:20:46] talking about the chickens, does it add, we're covering just a small percentage more,
[1:20:54] because most of them are already covered by this?
[1:20:58] so tailgaters is a good example. They're a multi-use.
[1:21:03] facility, right? So you have to do the parking separate and add it together.
[1:21:08] so there is a standard for restaurants, and that is part
[1:21:12] of their calculation, but the convenience store is this, and that's where they got the five
[1:21:17] to five and a half for that part of their calculation. So any retail store is going
[1:21:23] to be this. Restaurants have their own
[1:21:28] standard.
[1:21:34] commissioner nguyen. So just to make sure I understand the big picture,
[1:21:39] so we are proposing changes to the ordinance that would then be brought
[1:21:43] to the township board for them to pass into law, correct? Correct.
[1:21:48] so I spoke with one of the board members at their last meeting, and they
[1:21:53] aren't aware that we're doing any of this discussion. Is this something that we want to solicit their feedback on?
[1:21:58] no. No. We don't need that. No.
[1:22:03] okay, now I want to make sure I understand. No, there's a process. Okay, that's how it works.
[1:22:08] no, we have to make all the other boards mad, and then we make them mad. Okay.
[1:22:12] it's a very strict process. I wasn't sure if we solicited
[1:22:16] any... I see where you're coming from, but no. Okay.
[1:22:21] no. They'll get their turn at bat.
[1:22:25] okay. Any other questions, comments, concerns?
[1:22:32] so it sounds like we have a request for at least one more, what I would call a pro forma amendment.
[1:22:41] if it's the will of the planning commission, I can write that caveat into the
[1:22:47] ordinance and then bring it back.
[1:22:52] are you ready for a resolution with that change?
[1:22:56] there are no other questions. You are not bringing up, I'm not throwing shade, but
[1:23:01] you're not bringing up other questions. Is it worth that draft going to
[1:23:05] the folks who gave us the input to see if we... No, you are the approving body.
[1:23:10] and that was actually mentioned at one point during the dda meeting. It was like, at the end
[1:23:15] of the day, it's your ordinance. These are their comments. Alright.
[1:23:20] I retract my question. Are you sure that the state
[1:23:25] requires minimum spaces? No.
[1:23:30] I am going off what I am told. I just find that really hard to believe.
[1:23:35] I do, too. And ai is telling me otherwise.
[1:23:40] I still think it's kind of a good safety net.
[1:23:46] what made me think of, like, huge medical establishments that force you to park
[1:23:50] in a paid parking garage. Like, it seems like this day would regulate that, too.
[1:23:55] if you need medical care, you shouldn't have to pay to park.
[1:23:59] like, you know. I don't know, but I found that. Senator singh is retiring.
[1:24:04] let's see if you can ram that through before you dial, right? Thanks for coming.
[1:24:08] you can't have your car back because you're broke. Exactly. Nor can you get in.
[1:24:13] we don't care if you're bleeding out. Yeah, and I just want to, I appreciate that research as
[1:24:18] well, because I want to reiterate that any language I would say is, I'd be willing to
[1:24:23] support language that supports or pulls in state.
[1:24:29] level regulatory guidance,
[1:24:33] not just sort of like any sort of licensing bodies that are
[1:24:42] non-profits or private or anything like that. Well, license, yeah, okay.
[1:24:46] so, at the state or federal level, then what you're saying.
[1:24:50] yeah, okay. Yeah, because you could technically go to the...
[1:24:55] the county can get a business license, I guess. I was going to say that's where licenses come from, but we do
[1:24:59] get business licenses. Okay, that's a clarification. We were just talking about how, you know, if
[1:25:04] something... Supersedes something else it doesn't have to be explicitly made mention
[1:25:09] of in the ordinance like it doesn't really seem necessary if state regulatory agencies
[1:25:17] have a standard then that's the standard just like
[1:25:22] with hoas you know like right and I'd hate
[1:25:26] to have to make them go through the variance process for that just
[1:25:31] to get a rubber stamp because of right this gets them out of
[1:25:36] that process I do not know that this is going to happen. I'm going to be really honest.
[1:25:41] I do not know that I'm going to face this again. However, I threw it out there
[1:25:47] because I appreciate the feedback and I'm also willing to compromise with groups and
[1:25:52] to try and make things amenable to everyone.
[1:25:58] but I think that you both are making good points about it. Whether or not this is
[1:26:03] necessary. It made me think of the ada
[1:26:08] compliance. Don't we have accessibility code that's listed in there,
[1:26:13] which technically isn't required? What do you mean it's not required?
[1:26:21] we have to follow ada standards. Correct.
[1:26:25] but I'm saying I thought there was a conversation that we didn't have to expressly list those.
[1:26:30] oh, I see what you're saying. That is correct. That is correct. So that's what I...
[1:26:35] a lot of... By reference. Yeah, you can do it by reference, and then during
[1:26:40] building permitting process, they'll look at do you have enough handicap spots and things like that.
[1:26:45] yeah.
[1:26:53] so let me ask this one. Sorry, I'm recalling something I said in the last meeting. The idea being it would give...
[1:26:59] the township some leeway
[1:27:03] to make things faster for developers to not go through these processes?
[1:27:08] I think I may be able to back and forth about this. Yes, that is true.
[1:27:12] as proposed, does the amended ordinance empower the township
[1:27:18] to do so under what we have in front of us?
[1:27:23] did that make its way in? No, I can't build a mechanism
[1:27:27] in to get you around. A very, like,
[1:27:32] the 20% applies unless we don't like, I mean, unless we feel
[1:27:38] like it's okay. Yeah, okay.
[1:27:43] I can't. I'm just, like I said, I'm going through, remembering.
[1:27:47] yeah, we did have that conversation. I can't.
[1:27:53] yeah. Or we would have to stipulate specific property types similar
[1:27:57] to the parking minimums where they're all listed out. Which I don't want
[1:28:02] to propose, to be clear. Yeah.
[1:28:13] so would this be another instance where we would do the straw poll?
[1:28:19] the question as I'm hearing it right now is,
[1:28:23] are you as a body okay with a 20% number, 20% maximum
[1:28:27] with the language that says... This is waivable if necessary
[1:28:33] because of state or federal regulatory rules.
[1:28:38] I'll phrase that. You know that. But, okay.
[1:28:44] I'm good with that. Other, yeah, yeah.
[1:28:52] I will bring you a resolution and finish ordinance. Mr.
[1:28:57] sorkin, please bring us a resolution that reflects this conversation. You have a question.
[1:29:02] oh, I saw it. Does it require swap votes? Should we do that?
[1:29:07] I mean, I'm... Yeah, typically there is an informal vote. Alright.
[1:29:13] it's a show of hands kind of a thing. Informally, show of hands,
[1:29:17] who would be willing, who would be voting in favor of
[1:29:23] such a resolution? I think you have your numbers, mr.
[1:29:29] farfee. Okay. Thank you. Move on to other business,
[1:29:34] number nine on the agenda, mass timber construction discussion. Yep.
[1:29:44] here we go.
[1:29:49] at our last meeting, we brought this up for discussion,
[1:29:53] and two points were raised. You asked for information on
[1:29:58] mass timber. I did insert a couple
[1:30:02] attachments and I gave you two different websites to check out.
[1:30:08] here's what it is. Here are the benefits. Things like that.
[1:30:13] and then you ask for suggested updates.
[1:30:19] it is pretty easy to put this
[1:30:28] into an mpud ordinance or a commercial planned unit.
[1:30:34] planned unit development ordinance, those have amenities, lists
[1:30:39] of amenities, and it would be easy to put this in there.
[1:30:44] you know, you do this and we'll give you a waivers list, okay?
[1:30:53] going beyond that is a longer process. Like, you'd have to create a
[1:30:58] process. Like, if you said, I want it in all c2 zones,
[1:31:02] mmm. I'm going to have to sit down and think about how
[1:31:08] to do that. This gets to a lot
[1:31:14] of what was concerned with,
[1:31:20] but staff is prepared to go in whatever direction you want on this.
[1:31:27] commissioner mcauliffe? Thanks. I think I support the idea
[1:31:32] of dipping our toes in the water. Under the pud ordinance, it seems fairly straightforward
[1:31:37] and probably one of the spots where it's most likely to be utilized.
[1:31:43] so thanks for doing that. And I would support that change as a first step.
[1:31:48] and if we want to keep scratching our heads about how we do it in other zones, then we can
[1:31:53] keep scratching our head. Commissioner shusberg? Just so I understand clearly,
[1:31:58] we would be doing this to incentivize its use. There's nothing...
[1:32:03] currently that prevents its use in any construction. It's just we're looking
[1:32:08] at ways to try to encourage the developer to consider it.
[1:32:13] yeah, so an mu-ped comes in, hazlet village,
[1:32:17] for instance. One of their amenities is,
[1:32:22] what are they, like art? Oh, the trailhead, yes,
[1:32:27] the trailhead. Ok, we would be adding two
[1:32:32] amenities. Mass timber construction. Of course, specifics have
[1:32:37] to be banged out. Like I noted in my memo, there's three levels of amenities.
[1:32:42] where does this fit? What percentage of the building has to be? Things like that.
[1:32:47] there's conversations to be had, but staff can...
[1:32:52] we'll bring the list to you and take it
[1:32:58] from there, I guess. Mr. Shusbeck?
[1:33:03] I'd be really curious to see if there are other places in michigan or elsewhere
[1:33:08] that have done this successfully, like put it into their code and how they've done
[1:33:13] it. Okay. You know, if they've done something
[1:33:18] like what we've tried to do. I believe east lansing did,
[1:33:24] and that's what got it on the cia's...
[1:33:29] east lansing did. They, they... They put it in an ordinance that isn't really analogous
[1:33:34] to ours because it's for downtown redevelopment and allowing extra stories on a downtown building, you
[1:33:39] know, so it's not exactly, I can't just cut and paste that, but they did amend their
[1:33:43] ordinance to allow mass timber construction as a benefit,
[1:33:47] as a way to get extra space. Okay, thank you.
[1:33:52] sure, I can look more indefinitely into that. There are places that are kind
[1:33:57] of cutting edge or doing it successfully. Sure. And like, we tried this,
[1:34:01] it didn't really bring in what we thought, so we did this, you know, anecdotally.
[1:34:06] I will look into that. I'm trying to remember if it was here.
[1:34:12] we heard about a residence hall being built in grand rapids,
[1:34:17] the biggest mass timber
[1:34:21] building in the state. It was over that direction.
[1:34:26] I brought it up. It's in my previous memo.
[1:34:30] I think it was an eight-story residential building.
[1:34:35] it was not grand rapids exactly, but in that area. On bowery street.
[1:34:39] yeah, something like that. And the idea here then is still
[1:34:45] that the pud or the mupud can be done along the grand river
[1:34:50] corridor, right? Yeah, you can do an mpud
[1:34:55] anywhere you've got the
[1:34:59] appropriate zoning for it.
[1:35:06] okay. Okay, so then a follow-up question to that
[1:35:10] for the next time we talk about this would be is, because the cia was interested
[1:35:15] in this, does that include all of the grand river corridor? No, no,
[1:35:20] and that's the point I made. To put this into the mup, the ordinance as an amenity,
[1:35:25] is one thing. That's an easy fix. Not, I don't want to say fix,
[1:35:29] it's an easy addition. Right. To say...
[1:35:34] everything in the corridor, to make it an amenity, to make it like an incentive
[1:35:40] in the corridor, that's going to take more work because
[1:35:45] what's the tradeoff? There is no mechanism in place for amenities and waivers,
[1:35:49] like in the mupd ordinance. I'm not saying it can't be
[1:35:55] created, but that is creating something.
[1:35:59] and that's a bigger job. Potentially, you know,
[1:36:05] more discussion. Yeah. Okay. Others?
[1:36:13] what's your name?
[1:36:20] so, yeah, looking at the mpud ordinance, I think,
[1:36:26] yeah, throwing it in at maybe level two seems really reasonable to me.
[1:36:32] yeah, so if I had to vote on something right now, that's probably where I would think would be a reasonable place
[1:36:37] to put it. Yeah. Can you show us those three levels?
[1:36:44] yes.
[1:36:52] where do you see codes and ordinances? Here we go.
[1:37:01] 86, 440.
[1:37:20] yeah, so before I get there, where is it located?
[1:37:25] mupd projects are permitted in the c2, c3, cr zoning districts.
[1:37:30] and permitted po and c1 when adjacent and there's conditions.
[1:37:35] just to give you an idea, that question came up.
[1:37:39] amenities, so project features
[1:37:47] count as three amenities. So I think I called these level three amenities during the
[1:37:53] haslitt village. Leed certification, multi-level
[1:37:58] parking decks. 20% total units,
[1:38:03] affordable housing. You get down here, these count as two amenities.
[1:38:09] 75% of all buildings, natural materials on their facades, green roofs,
[1:38:16] ev stations, outdoor seating plazas, and then these are
[1:38:21] single amenities. Green space, e-scooter parking,
[1:38:27] wireless access points. Things like that.
[1:38:31] so yeah, adding under this,
[1:38:35] adding 10 mass timber construction, and then
[1:38:41] on what percent of the buildings, et cetera, things like that.
[1:38:46] that's a conversation worth having, rather than just saying mass timber construction, kind
[1:38:51] of nailing it down a little bit.
[1:39:03] I'm guessing the folks at msu would be happy to suggest draft ordinance language.
[1:39:09] maybe. I can reach out to them and ask.
[1:39:21] so this is other business. Nothing would then require a vote tonight, right?
[1:39:25] no. And do you have the guidance that you need? Yeah.
[1:39:33] I'll come back with... These amenities and a bullet point and updated memo.
[1:39:39] I mentioned that we have amenities in the commercial
[1:39:44] planned unit development. Frankly, we haven't had any. I don't know that we have
[1:39:49] anybody use that. But if we're going
[1:39:53] to open the hood, I'll put those there too because why not?
[1:39:57] that sounds right. And then if you want to take this further,
[1:40:01] we can. I'm going to bring this back. Not at the next meeting,
[1:40:06] but the meeting after that. So just so you know. Very well.
[1:40:13] thank you, mr. Sharkey. Of course. So with that, we can move on
[1:40:18] to 10, reports and announcements, township board update. Yep.
[1:40:25] april 7th, under consent agenda, the township board did an
[1:40:30] appointment for the brownfield. Did appointments for the
[1:40:34] brownfield redevelopment authority and the environmental commission.
[1:40:38] I'm sure you can talk about that more specifically. Board discussion items included
[1:40:44] the capstone project on hanna boulevard and the jolly
[1:40:49] road-texandani rezoning. And they also discussed data
[1:40:55] centers and battery storage facilities moratorium.
[1:41:03] the draft agenda for the next meeting shows the capstone and
[1:41:09] the texandani rezoning moving forward.
[1:41:14] okay, well liaison reports.
[1:41:18] I forget who liaises at this point. I liaise with the dba, but the dba didn't meet this month.
[1:41:26] any other liaison reports? At the last meeting of the environmental commission,
[1:41:31] thanks for throwing me under the bus, we heard that there might be some new appointments to be made, but we
[1:41:38] also reviewed applications for the green grant program funded
[1:41:43] by the board. I and another commissioner were recused from
[1:41:48] the conversation because we were both members of homeowners associations who had submitted
[1:41:53] applications for financing green infrastructure. And
[1:41:57] interestingly enough, a criterion applied
[1:42:03] to past applications from hoas was that the area where the
[1:42:09] project work was done would be accessible to the public. And
[1:42:13] we shall see how that plays out with those hoas. He says ominously. If I might,
[1:42:19] my hoa has some... Archaic
[1:42:26] restrictive covenants. As far
[1:42:34] as I know, they're not really illegal as some others, but they are. And our practice
[1:42:41] is regularly to defer to township ordinance because there's a code enforcement
[1:42:46] officer. You can go knock on the door. Rather than going and filing a suit and hiring
[1:42:51] somebody to be served and try and take them to court, which
[1:42:55] different groups have different processes. Ours is...
[1:43:02] in great need of reform. My hoa
[1:43:06] bylaws, where I live, have not been rewritten since 1986. And ironically, that's
[1:43:12] when they were written the first time. If anybody wants
[1:43:17] to geek on homeownership, hoa restrictive covenants, I'd be happy
[1:43:22] to do that offline. Any other liaison reports? Project
[1:43:27] updates? I believe I did not see a project update. No, nothing this month. Nothing
[1:43:32] coming through. Public remarks? There are no members of the public. Commissioner
[1:43:37] comments? Commissioner nahum? So a quick thing about the discussion from the
[1:43:42] township board about the possible data center moratorium. The discussion
[1:43:47] seemed to be the case that they were considering a moratorium
[1:43:52] to give time to consider what is the appropriate sort
[1:43:56] of regulation for data centers and battery storage centers within the township. And I
[1:44:03] presume that sort of regulation would probably be coming to us
[1:44:07] to have to come up with that. So just something to keep on your agenda that we may have
[1:44:14] that coming towards us. My
[1:44:19] resignation will be shortly before that. Commissioner
[1:44:24] newham, do I recall that we were waiting to see if you were going
[1:44:29] to be dad by this meeting? Yes, I am not dad by this meeting, but I expect to be tomorrow. I expect
[1:44:39] to be tomorrow. Well, congratulations. Any other commissioner comments? Hearing
[1:44:44] none, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. We have moved by commissioner
[1:44:49] brooks, second by commissioner mcconnell. I think I heard first. All in favor,
[1:44:54] aye. Aye. Opposed? Yay. That vote should be yay. Yay.