Okay, good evening everyone. Welcome to the July 13, 2026 council
meeting. Uh council, we've got uh Council
Donaldson, Council Schuken, myself in the room online. We have Council
Councelor Gray. Councelor Gray, can you hear us?
Yes, I can. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. So, council, before you, we
have the agenda as amended with the addition of the late items. Uh, is that
all right? Yep. Moved by councelor Schukan, seconded by councelor Donaldson
as amended. All in favor? Opposed?
Seeing no opposed, that appro that is approved unanimously. Next, we have
presentations. Thank you very much. Um well actually I forgot to do the
territorial. Thank you for reminding me. So um I've got notes here somewhere but
I think I'll just say territorial acknowledgement like we've done for the
last four years. So we sit on um the land of the s coish people um and we
acknowledge and recognize our first nations community uh especially the Jano
first nations uh to our near uh west here the patchidot far west out near
Port Renfruit as well as the suk first nation uh the songis and the first
nations and we acknowledge them and we work towards good governance with them
and good relationships. Okay, let's move along uh to the
presentations. We tonight we have a presentation a delegation from William
Head Institution that has been planned for quite some time. Um and um uh the
correspondence was on there and I'd like to welcome team warden um Tony uh BL and
Renee Pero the assistant warden management services to the podium.
Welcome.
» Yeah, you'll have to Yeah. And turn the mic. That'd be great.
» All right. Testing. Testing. Okay.
» Good evening, Mayor Mayor Little. Council members, staff, and community
members. My name is Anthony Baldo, and I'm the
acting warden of Williamhead Institution. Our substantive warden,
Trent Mitchell, is on temporary special assignment now, and he has asked that I
speak on his behalf. I have the pleasure of being joined by colleagues act acting
deputy warden Renee Parent and assistant warden of operations Jeff Longhurst.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening about something that
deserves our collective recognition and mutual deep appreciation the strong and
collegial relationship between Williamhead Institution the District of
Mosen and its surrounding communities. Please know that while I am speaking the
memory of Mr. Payne, who had his life taken away in 2019, stays with me and
with all the staff at William Head Institution. [clears throat] Our
thoughts continue to be with the family and friends of Mr. Bane.
William Head Institution sits on the traditional territory of the Beecher Bay
First Nation, who thoughtfully granted us the name Shianu, land of the salmon
people during our 50-year recognition ceremony in 2009.
Established in 1959, William Head Institution, a 200 bed
capacity minimum security facility, has been a proud member and neighbor within
the community of Machosan for nearly 70 years.
Historically, correctional facilities are often understood through the lens of
their security mandate. While public safety and accountability remain
fundamental responsibilities and are top of mind each day in the decisions made
at William Head, they are a crucial part of a larger picture. Within the William
Head Institution community are dedicated professionals, volunteers, and community
stakeholders who work every day to promote rehabilitation, support personal
growth, and prepare individuals for successful reintegration into society
and back into our local communities. What makes the relationship between
William Head Institution and the community of Machosen special is the
understanding that public safety and rehabilitation can only occur when the
community and William Head Institution is part of the same narrative and are
striving towards the same goals. The relationship between Williamhead,
the residents, organizations, businesses, and local government is
built on mutual respect, open communication, and a common goal of
creating a safer and stronger community for everyone. While recent events have
certainly served to test the resolve of our collective relationships, they have
also served to strengthen them and have shown us the importance of maintaining
robust communication protocols and processes.
I know that William Head Institution Management is looking forward to
continuing this work with the district and with the RCMP Superintendent
Gillespie. I know that this work is well underway and communications procedures
have already strengthened between the key stakeholders of the offices
mentioned. We have also seen the benefits of this
partnership and how William Head Institution offenders have given back to
the immediate Machosen community through community service escorted temporary
absences, educational opportunities, community initiatives, charitable
projects and ongoing dialogue that brings people together rather than
keeping them apart. These connections help to educate, clear up
misconceptions, build trust, and remind us that meaningful change happens when
William Head Institution and the local communities work side by side.
In fact, further to the community service escorted at temporary absence,
as I mentioned, offenders approved for this program have actually painted the
exterior of this building, engaged in the annual setup and takeown of staging
equipment from a chosen days year after year, repaired and painted the pavilion
as well as the riding ring, and have recently assisted in the cleanup of the
St. Mary the Virgin Church Cemetery. The men have for 20 years or more have
also been the go-to team to clean up the course and the broom epidemic that is in
our community. You'll also see them doing uh trail
cleanup and uh remediation as well on occasion.
Moreover, it was our community connections group made up of
particularly talented offenders who built the little library across the way
and have built thousands of toys, sock puppets, and items for charitable
auctions over the years. These activities occur daily and the reach is
throughout the CRD and beyond. This is community in action.
A further testament to community in action can be found through our
wonderful citizens advisory committee. The Citizen Advisory Committee or CSE as
it's referred to plays a vital role at William Head Institution by fostering
transparency, accountability, and meaningful engagement between the
institution and the community it serves. Through its independent volunteer
members, the CAC provides valuable oversight, offers constructive feedback,
and helps ensure that the perspectives of the public are reflected in the
correctional environment. Their commitment to observing operations,
supporting rehabilitation efforts, and promoting open dialogue contributes to a
culture of respect, fairness, and continuous improvement.
The dedication and insight of the CAC are instrumental in strengthening public
confidence while supporting William Head Institution's mission of safe, secure,
and effective reintegration. William Head is extremely fortunate to
have such a robust CAC consisting of members from all over the CRD
representing a wide range of ages, professions, and background experiences,
including folks from right here in Mosen.
These volunteers have have unfettered access to the institution and to its
offender population, ensuring that the important dialogue between the
citizenry, the offenders, and staff remain candid, relevant, and forward
focused. I would be remiss in not briefly
articulating how William Head Institution supports some of our most
vulnerable and racialized populations, an issue that affects communities at
large as well as the community within William Head Institution.
Indigenous peoples remain significantly over represented in the federal
correctional system, accounting for approximately 30% of individuals under
CSC jurisdiction, the Correctional Service of Canada. Uh
despite representing only 5% of the Canadian population, CSC recognizes that
the disparity reflects broader systemic inequities and committed to addressing
it through enhanced cultural supports, streamlined release processes, and
targeted reintegration and employment initiatives. These efforts have
contributed to increased discretionary releases for our indigenous offenders
and reduced rates of gradual return to federal custody within five years of
sentence completion. The Correctional Service of Canada also
has developed a phase black offender strategy to address the over
representation of uh offenders in the correctional system. The first phase has
already been completed, but including the identification of promising
initiatives across the country, efforts to expand successful pilot programs into
national practices have been undertaken. In January 2025, CSSE shared a draft of
the strategy with the black offenders whose feedback was generally supportive
while ongoing consultations with blackled community organizations.
CSC is currently funding using uh current funding to implement, evaluate,
and research further initiatives to better understand and improve outcomes
for our black offenders. But community is also about reciprocity engagement,
sorry, is also about reciprocity. In the continued spirit of meaningful
community engagement and meeting people where they're at culturally, the
offenders of William Head Institution have hosted several ethnicultural
events, symposiums, and forums over the past several years. In fact, William
Head Institution for the past 10 years has been counted on to spend nearly 70%
of the entire region's ethnicultural budget year-over-year.
William has has been able to do this as it enjoys very progressive and
enlightened relationships with the Intercultural Association of Victoria,
Dr. Lisa Gunderson, and the University of Victoria, just to name a couple.
Community partnerships such as these are yet another key to contributing to
public safety. Perhaps our longest community outreach venture can be found
in the annual William Head on Stage Theater Performances, or who's for
short. I'm sure many people in the audience are are familiar with who's for
45 years who's has stood as an extraordinary example of transformation
transformation transformation transformative power of arts easy for me
to say creativity and community through its remarkable performances written by
the offenders. The program has pro provided a platform for personal growth,
self-expression, and meaningful connection, touching the lives of
participants, audiences, volunteers, and supporters alike. This milestone 45th
year this fall will not celebrates not only decades of outstanding theatrical
theatrical productions, but also a lasting commitment to rehabilitation,
inclusion, and hope. The dedication, talent, and pers perseverance of the
offenders, community partners, and of the supportive community CRDwide
have created a legacy that continues to inspire, demonstrating how the
performing arts can foster understanding, build confidence, and
build bring people together. It should be noted that who's hosts approximately
2,000 paying guests to see its perform performance each year. That's 2,000
paying guests. The healthy relationship between
Williamhead Institution and the Machosen community has not been built overnight.
It has been built through years, nearly 70 years in fact, of listening,
cooperation, problem solving, and shared successes. It is strengthened when
challenges are addressed respectfully and timely and when opportunities are
embraced together. This evening, I recognize a partnership
that reflects those principles. We celebrate the understanding that every
person has the capacity for growth, that public institutions can be positive
community partners, and that a community is strongest when it works together
toward common goals. I'd like to thank you for your time, for your collegiality
and commitment to our mission, and for allowing us to be part of your wonderful
community of Machosen. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. So, um, council,
uh, did you have any comments or questions that you wanted to address to
either either parties, the the three, Jeff, uh, Renee, and Tony, the acting
warden. Uh, we'll start with council Schukan and then move throughout uh,
council table. Thank you. >> Great. Um, uh, through your little, Mr.
BLO. Yes. >> Baldo. Sorry. Baldo. Uh, Mr. Mr. Bald,
Miss Brown and Mr. Longhurst, thanks very much for being here. Um, of course,
top of mind is the whole um situation with the escaped inmate. Um, that
situation I think revealed to us that there were some things that we needed to
do and learn in terms of our emergency communication. Um I you you probably
can't get into depth around the response that you corrections Canada made at at
your your site, but I I just wonder if you can maybe talk about what you are
doing now to learn and to improve and Yeah. Well, I can tell you right now
that as I said in in my uh short presentation that um our staff is
actively engaged with the staff here at uh Machosen City Hall and our emergency
or first responders. Um Superintendent Gillespie as well and RCMP uh local
authorities are also engaged in um sort of dotting eyes and crossing tees and
sort of seeing how the communication can be even more efficient and more
effective. I think with any um incident or event uh we learn from that and we'll
continue to learn. Uh rehabilitation is a is not a straight line. It's a
journey. It's a it's a cross country run as opposed to a sprint. And um we we it
behooves us to to ensure that we learn from past practices and make future
practices stronger and and more effective. and that's where we're at
right now. So, thank you for understanding that the the the current
uh situation with Mr. Jensen and his passing is under current investigation
and I cannot comment further, but that's sort of the lay of the land right now.
Thank you. >> Okay, thank you Donaldson.
» Thank you. I had a similar um concern about that. we've we've probably each
one of us heard from our community and the alarming um effects that go with
that. I live near where Mr. Payne lives so I appreciate the acknowledgement at
the very beginning of your talk. Um I also want to express my gratitude for
the amount of work um that your staff have done over the years and have
evolved. Uh as well as the gentleman crew that comes out and works within the
community. um having um being a part of that um with the riding ring or and
seeing the the recent work at the at the churchyard and the parks and trails
you've helped out as well as camp Bernard and some other um projects and I
think that that's a very good program in helping these individuals to um
gradually get back into our community um having visited the institution as well
and different events the ethnic ones um was really interesting for me and also
transformative. I'm always learning and I appreciate that we are working that
you're working your you're um the institution uh Corrections Canada is
working with our staff to assure our residents um that we'll have an improved
protocol as to alerting people. Um it was uh it was quite bumpy and people
people were obviously alarmed. So, I look forward to the new roll out of a
better plan. Thank you. >> Thank you,
» Councelor Gray online. Do you have any uh comments or concerns or questions?
» Yes. Well, first thanks Mr. Baldo for your presentation and and uh I do want
to recognize the contributions your inmates make in our community. So, thank
you for that and thank you to the inmates. Um this was I think for many
people a frightening experience given what had happened previously uh with a
escaped um inmate and I I wasn't sure under previous council I think there
were some discussions and perhaps decisions or at least I was had the
impression there were about the nature of inmates that would be um kept at
William Head and then I think it was yesterday I read an article in the Times
colonist which gave quite a description of Mr. Jensen and his time in in the in
um Corrections Canada and it made me feel less certain about what's going on.
It will that be part of the discussion going forward then? Um is the nature of
people who are kept there? Is that part of the issue for us to address?
» Well, I I guess how I can respond is that um after Mr. Payne's uh um uh his
the taking of Mr. 's life in 2019. There were um adjustments and and changes made
uh and how we screen offenders and and exactly what offender profile uh comes
to William Hit Institution. I can I assure you that those practices are
still in play and as I said earlier um in in in corrections in in a minimum
security facility I would be uh remissed to to say if if if I told you that there
would be no risk. I think that everybody would understand in human behavior um
that there is no such thing as is no risk and it's low risk that we subscribe
to. So to answer your your question more directly is we will continue to review
closely how we screen offenders to come to William Head Institution. Yes. And um
in Mr. Jensen's case um as has been reported there were a lot of factors
that um affected Mr. Jensen's um behavior and stay. And uh we will
continue to revisit how uh we supported Mr. Jensen and what we can do
differently going forward. Thank you. >> Thank you for those comments and and for
the work that you're doing on that front. The second issue I wanted to ask
about was simply the one of communication. I read in the paper that
police were going doortodoor. Otherwise, I heard from residents that
there was something on Facebook. Um, but is there a way that we notify residents
when when there's a concern of an inmate escaping? Um, or is it or is that at
doortodoor and Facebook? >> Um, well, I can only speak from from how
we notify. We have a set um list of contacts that we um contact during an an
escape or other um similar type of event. And I know that uh when we went
through our uh terms of reference and our contingency plan um we checked every
bit of the steps along the way. Now what I can't speak to is um what happened
internally from from the from this level if you will but I as I said earlier in
my um in my presentation that we will do whatever we can to help smooth uh and
fill any gaps that may have been that have were experienced uh three or four
weeks ago. I guess maybe what I'm curious about the
chair is whether it's the police, the institution or the district who's
responsible to kind of get the information out to residents. I'm I'm
not aware of the protocols and that and I and it and this was kind of um really
uncertain. I only heard about it, you know, through an email um and then later
heard about Facebook. But is there a who's who's responsible for letting
residents know? Is that the district or the institution or the police or all
three? >> Well, again, we we notify the police
immediately and we also notify uh site contacts in this office immediately as
well. After that, uh in terms of direct um public uh console or in um u
notification, we as the site don't do that. we have to go through our uh law
enforcement partners and our community partners for that information to get
through. Uh as you can appreciate, we're dealing with the the the emergent
situation of a missing offender at that time, but we also have the duty to make
sure that what we know we uh disseminate to our immediate community as soon as as
practical.
» Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um we're just going to
turn to Bob Pad, our CEO. Go ahead, Bob. >> Thanks for the chair.
Um thanks for all the information. Uh Deputy Warden, that's all good. People
want to hear that and if it's possible to have your comments, we could uh um
you know, maybe make that public as well um so people can read because not
everybody's here tonight obviously or listening. Um couple things. Um
it would be interesting. I would be interested to know uh who when you refer
to screening um for um inmates I guess you call them
uh to be in Mosen like who exactly does that and um I'm of the belief that
somehow the local community should be involved in that process or at least
have some fidelity in that review process if that's even possible. Um,
second point is, um, today I noticed that there was a CSC van out front.
Maybe there was some volunteers doing something, you know, chosen. Um, I'm I'm
not aware of it and I find it interesting that, you know, that there's
inmates doing operational stuff in the community. I have no I have no awareness
of it. So, I think we need to work on that uh on that relationship a little
bit better. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Anybody else there want to add
anything towards the communication piece?
» Nope. Okay. >> Um
» yes, Steve here. >> I haven't yet for if you if you can wait
until I speak and then you can speak for the second time. Um I just want to
acknowledge uh uh all three of you here. Um, as is mentioned in the letter, I am
a part of the CAC. I'm an official member of the community advisory
committee. And the reason why I did that, and I know that's not uh what has
happened at the district before, but I thought it was really important that we
have a good communication between the district of Mosen and William Head
Institution because we do have u work release uh throughout the CRD. I'm a
member of the CRD board as vice chair. I thought it was just really important
that we have that communication and that that uh you were in my uh mobile phone
and and recognized here at the district if there was something that was to go
wrong. Um and I think uh the proof was in the pudding to tell you the truth in
this incident. This incident was very sad and very very frightening for my
community. Um however um we followed the emergency protocol uh when as I
understood it um and what we've talked about is when an inmate is not accounted
for uh the CSC uh notifies the RCMP. Once that happens it becomes there's a
second count but there's also that is now an RCMP investigation. Um I was and
at the same time I was at the farmers market. I came over here um to do some
business in my office. Almost simultaneously I received a a text from
the uh warden at the prison and a call from the RCMP superintendent. So that
was within uh 30 minutes or so and then it proceeded from there. Um I called our
CEO. He came in from Souk within about 15 minutes and joined me here. Um, and
we were discussing what was the next steps. I knew that we were going to get
authorization from the Correctional Services Canada on what could be said. I
was waiting for the RCMP to give me some notification of what were the next step.
This was my responsibility here because I am the the chief executive officer,
the mayor. I'm responsible for the health and well-being of 5,067
citizens. Um, and we had good communication. This
continued on um into the night. Prior to that, um, CEO Payet uh, said, "If you
need me, I'll be here." Um, CEO Payet left. I went into the community because
I was worried that citizens that don't have access to Facebook, don't have
access to their phone were recreating in the district. In particularly, I knew
that the art pod at our municipal owned school uh was there painting for their
next exhibition and they wouldn't be looking at their cell phone. So, I went
there [snorts] to u let them know what has happened and I didn't have a lot of
information at that time. I went door todo to all the businesses and everybody
that that I could all the business owners uh to talk about that. I also
went out to William Head um to talk to the RCMP officers that there. This
continued into the night. Um, and I was liazing back and forth with um, Trent
Mitchell, our warden, Superintendent Terry Terry Gillespie at the RCMP, as
well as uh, Shano First Nations uh, Chief Rush Chips, who is in Vancouver
um, recovering from surgery there, as well as the counselor, the only
counselor that was available um, and in uh, the band or at the band, which was
uh, Tracy Oman. So I was uh communicating back and forth between all
of these five people. It was me uh that put it on Facebook because I was trying
to figure out what is the best way to get this to the community. I know that
many members of the community are on fa Facebook not all. Uh so that was and I I
relayed official information not circumsp
circumspect my opinion. It was official um information on on how it was
unfolding to reassure the public but to give them as much information as
possible that was actual um information and factual. Um, and during the night I
woke up every hour on the hour. I set my my mobile um calendar because Chief
Chips wanted to know. And so that's what I did. The next morning, we had various
um inquiries from the press. I knew that the RCMP were having their own press
release uh press conference at the RCMP. I suspected that there was something
going on at um still at the prison because we could see the helicopters
above and I had had communications from Trent Mitchell. Um and at that point I
decided to call a press conference here so that the press could hear everything
that had happened in the past not quite 24 hours but that they would all hear uh
my statement simultaneously and they would all hear the same message. uh that
was typed out my message um and it was given to all of the the press that were
here. Additional copies were given to their colleagues for their colleagues
that weren't there. And so u that's sort of a communicate
that is exactly how it it unfolded. There are gaps in the system that we've
been able to identify um and uh there's there are things that we did right and
there are some gaps and we will do better in the future. But I'm very very
happy that I've spent the time over the past four years to have those good
communications to meet monthly with the personnel at William Head Institution as
well as good communications with our new superintendent of the RCMP, Terry
Gillespie, and his colleagues. Okay. Any other comments or concerns?
Okay. With that, I'll thank you. >> Thank you.
» Yes. >> Thank you, counselor. And you you don't
have to stay. Um we've got a long night and I I imagine you don't want to stay
for till 11. So thank you very much for joining us.
» Thank you. Mayor >> Mayor Little, you'd asked if I had
another comment and I do. >> I'm sorry.
» It's a C. You'd asked if I had another question or comment and I do have one.
» Oh, I apologize. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for for reporting
out on on your activities and I very much appreciate that businesses were
notified. My concern, I guess, lies with the residents of the community and I
think that Facebook and email just doesn't cut it. Um, and I'm wondering if
we might get advice from the institution if if our role is in fact to notify
residents rather than the police. Um maybe in our communications plan that
we're building now or the protocols that we heard about a moment ago being
revised, we might find out from the institution or from kind of um
corrections Canada what's done in other communities and how do they manage it?
Are there lessons we can get there? Is there anything like amber alert type
activity or phone trees? We have our our emergency pods which kicked into action
but but delayed. And then the other point, so so just I think it would be
good if if that communication plan as it's developed came back to council so
we could see it and share it with the public. And then my final comment would
be that it would be really great to know what the messages actually were. I think
they were lock your doors, but I'm and and um and um but I don't know really
what else was was out there. Um did we talk about outuildings? be careful about
out build out buildings or check on your neighbors. I'm not totally sure. I
didn't really see anything in that regard uh out to residents. So, those
are just my comments about if we could have a report back to council from staff
as they work forward on it. Thank you very much.
» Do you wish to comment on that? >> I can definitely comment on the first
part that um with uh Did you want to come up and Okay, I'll have um Jeff come
up. He was doing the the the hard work here with regards to that.
» Okay. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Longhurst. Go ahead. Go ahead.
» Okay. I got to lower this a little bit. Yeah, there was a big tall guy here. Um,
okay. Can everybody hear me? Okay. Um, yes. So, uh, the question going back
about, um, notification for public, I believe that's something that we might
be able to, uh, take a look at in the future. Uh, I do have contacts at other
minimum minimum sites across the country. So, this is something that is
sort of in my wheelhouse of uh, the side of things. Um, so I can explore that as
we go into the future. Uh, was there another question that was
attached to that?
» So, may I the coding speaking for the council? Great. The coding
» the coding like lock your door or whatever like
» Oh, okay. What does that mean? >> Uh, we don't do we don't do that. Um, we
don't say lock your door. We don't do any of that kind of stuff. So, uh, um,
I'm not sure where that would have came from, but, uh, it wouldn't be from a
Correctional Service Canada site. So, >> right. And that that makes sense to me
because once once the prison, as I understand, the Correctional Services
Canada notifies the RCMP, it's no longer correctional services jurisdiction, if
I'm using the correct terminology. The jurisdiction is actually RCMP. It's now
their investigation and once and >> yeah it's a it becomes a command center
within the site. >> Uh so then it's a joint force between uh
our operations and uh the RCMP. >> Right. So the communications regarding
that would be an RCMP piece. Yes. Any notification would be an RCMP piece.
» Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.
Okay. that we forgot to mention. I did lies with Kathleen Sutherland, our
volunteer emergency management coordinator uh that evening. Um and uh
she had what had happened. She had a resident earlier in the day respond that
she had heard there was an incident at William Head Institution. Um she
immediately went to Facebook to see if there was something on there. She saw my
post um and saw that it was on official uh Correctional Services Canada uh
notification and their verbiage and she took that as authorization that she had
factual information that she could then send out to all the pod leaders the the
the pod leaders um throughout the district. So, anybody that has signed up
for that being in a pod and who had access to a computer or a phone would
have received that pod notification. And I think that was about I've got my I
don't have my notes with me, but it's about 3:00 in the afternoon or or so.
So, we've continually asked people to sign up for those notifications if
people don't want if they want to live off the grid, if they if they want to be
left alone. we have honored that and and we don't have a a um a phone number for
we don't have a email address for every resident. It's if you've opted into the
system, you would have received that notification and I one of the council
members here did uh say that that um uh his wife is a pod leader and he received
that notification at the same time and and um so that's good that the pod
system worked. uh in that case and many residents were identifi were notified by
the pod system. Okay, any other questions?
Okay, with that, thank you very much to this review.
Thank you.
Okay, next we're going to move to public participation.
We have four minutes per person to a maximum of 45 minutes. So, we'll
conclude this session at 8:30. Um, if you could state your name, your road,
and we are accepting respectful conversation this evening. Thank you.
Good evening. Uh, first of all, I'd like to thank members of council and the
mayor for your service up to this point and hope you have a good summer. Uh,
deserve a break for a bit. My name is Gary Smurfett.
I'm a 40-year member of Machosen. Live on Gilbert Drive. I'm also a member
of the Fireh Hall technical team. I'm here tonight with member Claus Craig and
our Sean Shen who's our technical support here.
Tonight on the agenda you have our proposal for services was accepted by
council on May the 25th and we started work on June the 5th with our meet and
greet with the mayor with the the CEO I'm sorry. [laughter]
And uh tonight there's our progress report for the first month and an
updated plan action and uh we're hoping to keep going forward on it. So I'd just
like to uh say we're here if you have any questions. Uh if afterwards the
meeting if members of the public want to grab us in the hallway, we'll be more
than pleased to talk to them as well. Thank you very much.
» Thank you.
John Ren stro just want to make a correction mayor
little I mean you said that good communication hasn't
happened before well that's just not true we've always had good communication
with William head I even I served on the CAC myself for several years After that,
we had council members that served on it and more recently in my time, Bob
Mitchell was a CAC member for a long time and reported almost monthly to the
council as to what was going on there. And
as to how the community got alerted, I was immediately alerted by the RCMP
whenever there was any problems with William.
I immediately referred that initially and then just was automatic
went to Chief Dunlop's community alert system and that community alert system
was very heavily subscribed by residents of this community. So that that was the
main way it got sent out. Also then we contacted staff and staff uh put it on
the website and did all sorts of other stuff too. the community knew but
primarily through Chief Dunlop's community alert system instantly when
something like that happened and you know
[clears throat]
this coun previous councils we were heavily involved with corrections Canada
particularly with the uh the murder that took place
and the problem there was overrides it was the sending warden overrides and and
we and myself, we went right to uh some of the top people in the Corrections
Canada thing right across the country and worked on that and the overrides
were changed. Not a lot, but they were changed and
those are the changes that I believe that this the assistant warden was
referring to. But anyways, we had very good communications. We had
set up really positive structures where the community could be advised.
So I'd appreciate it if you didn't say good
communication has only happened now and it never occurred before.
» I we don't usually respond during public participation but I will respond.
I thought that we could have better communication. That's why I put my name
forward for the uh CAC. Um I wasn't aware that you were a member of the CIC.
Um that has never been communicated to me. Certainly Bob Mitchell was a part of
the CAC. Um and remember I was on council uh last term and so I was fully
aware what the communications were regarding uh the last prison break and
the murder of Mr. Payne. regarding the overrides. Anybody in the community can
go to the Correctional Services Canada website and find out what was done at
Correctional Services regarding that incident and how they've pivoted uh
including I wouldn't say overrides but uh giving more authority to the warden
at William Head in terms of who is accepted at the prison and who is not
accepted. No, I'm not accepting. Um, you're this is not
» I'm not telling it the way it was. That's okay.
Mayor, >> you want to keep this council chamber
business?
» Enough, >> Mr. Rance. Enough.
» Enough. Enough.
» I apologize to everybody. This is a very serious debate. It's not a debate. This
is a very serious matter. We need to stick to the facts.
Go to the Correctional Services Canada and see what they've done since the last
prison break and the murder of Martin Payne, who was a beloved member of this
community. Go there and find out. Okay, please calm down in the back. If there
are problems with this, we'll remove everybody from the chamber.
Please keep your comments to yourself. Please go to the website for
Correctional Services of Canada, what they've done since that murder of Mr.
Payne. They've there's more authorization
uh for the warden to um accept or not accept inmates as well
as they've done a lot of um safety guards um regarding their counts. Go to
the website, find out the facts rather than rely on innuendo and and um hearsay
information. Okay, let's move to the next
Patty White House, Rocky Point Road. And I just want to express my appreciation
for the very readable and informative progress report from the fireh hall
technician team. >> Thank you.
» Um, for the record, we heard through our pod very quickly. I don't know the
process it got there, but it got there quickly.
» I'm glad that you heard from the pod. [laughter] If you could identify
yourself. >> Madame Mayor, I'm Clayton Baker, a
resident of 5109 William Head Road. Um, I also own in partnership with my family
3659 Soup Road. For clarity, I'm here in today in respect to the soup road
properties. We have put forward development
proposals in the past on this on our property. Since we began this process,
we have received a lot of public feedback. As a result of this feedback
and other information we've gathered, we believe we have a better understanding
of the concerns of this uh residents and the level of support for the project
that exists for the project. To this end, we also want to keep the
conversation going. This brings me to my next point. We are in the process of
revising our development proposal to reflect what we've learned so far. We
intend to bring the revised proposal to Machosen in time for the August council
meeting. We also believe that it will be a benefit to get better education of
where Mosen residents are on the developing the Supro corridor for
commercial and light industrial use for things like mini storage and and others.
Um we feel the residents are generally supportive to expanding the tax base in
this manner. It is my belief that this would be a logical way to maintain the
rural nature of chosen while at the same time providing options for future
councils to meet upcoming challenges without placing the burden of the cost
of these challenges on the residents. As we believe this information be
beneficial to the chosen as well as ourselves, we are prepared to fund the
cost of adding a question to the election on October 17th that provides
clarity for residents and if they see this as a way forward. Specifically, we
would ask residents, we would like to ask residents if they would support
limited expansion of commercial light industrial zoning on soup road in
accordance to the community plan. I want to emphasize this is not specific to our
thing just the general stretch not to our development in particular with the
time of proposal it is our intent to make this not election issue but to make
it more of a opportunity for the residents to be heard um
I suspect I don't know that there would be a cost to adding a question like this
to the election and we'd be willing to bear that cost so respectfully thank you
» okay just to uh clarify there's no council meeting in August. There is a
September 21st meeting. >> Then I screwed up my research.
» That's fine. [laughter] That's >> okay.
» Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
» My name is Mark Gross and I live on Mat Lake Park Road. I'd like to comment on a
variance request for my street. Um, I want to become aware of this variance
request was being tabled today on your agenda in a letter from the district
which arrived on Friday and I haven't had a chance to see the complete
variance request but I would like to comment on it since they're considering
it today. Um, my first point is that I'm the neighbor that would probably be most
impacted. is the variance request for a secondary suite and um the variance is
to increase the distance allowable. So I'm probably the neighbor that would
be most affected by this because it's moving in the direction of my property.
It's moving towards my property line. I'm on the immediate west side uh of the
uh property in question here. And um my family's concern is that uh this
potentially increases disturbance and noise and voices. This summer for the
first time in the three years that we've lived there, we could actually hear
personal discussions uh from their property as they were building uh the
home and um and so that you know they sit on your deck in your house and you
hear personal conversation would not be enjoyed by anybody. So that's one
concern by bringing it closer to us. The second uh concern is that we were uh
approached by a representative for the property last fall and at the time we
were asked to assign a supporting uh letter uh for uh a variance request um
to increase the distance between the secondary suite and the and the main
house. And my wife and I believe it was for 8 feet or 2 meters. I might be wrong
on that. But trying to remember back that seemed to be what the request was
going to be for. But what I see in the letter of Friday that we received Friday
is that the request is for 30 ft. It's 9.1 m.
And um so that's quite different from what we had signed to though I don't
have a copy of the uh full application so I could be wrong. The weather was 8
ft but that's what we think. Um so we signed in good faith because we wanted
to welcome the neighbors. Um and this seems to be a little bit um
bad faith. That's the impression it gives us. So we're unsure about that.
Um, the third comment uh point is that I'm not sure that uh a 61%
increase to the bylaw is appropriate for what Mosen wants to achieve with these
bylaws. I I believe what it wants achie achieve is keeping the footprint of
construction small and that's to contribute to the ambiance of the chosen
of this open spaces and biodiversity and so forth. And if this were passed then
it seems to me it sets a precedence of other properties even on our street but
certainly elsewhere as they come up in the future that such a significant uh
variance was allowed. So those are the the three points our concern about
disturbance as it comes closer to us um the issue about what had we been
approached to agree upon and uh thirdly whether it suits me chosen. So we
welcome the neighbors but we think they're overreaching perhaps within the
machosen framework uh to achieve something that uh is perhaps
inappropriate. Um and that's all I want wanted to have a chance to pass on like
our family's comments. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
» Thank you.
So the the complete package uh the request uh and the planners report was
at at the last council meeting that was June 10th I believe. I could be wrong on
that date. Uh but we can ask uh staff to send you that that all that
correspondence um and the link to the website. Okay. Next
Hi, my name is Lynn Pollock. I'm [clears throat] not a resident Mosen, so
I apologize for that. However, I'm here to speak
um on behalf of the amendment application for 3280 Woodruff Road.
So, my name, like I said, is Lynn Pollock. Um, I'm the daughter of John
and Peggy Jervis who owned the property at 5280 Woodruff Road. My parents owned
the property for 66 years. In more recent years, while my mother
was still alive, she had an agreement with CRD to purchase a large portion of
her property for park. However, this was never approved. The
property means so much to me personally. >> Miss Miss Pollock. Yes,
» we've got a member of council online, so if you can just speak directly into it,
that would be great. And I'm sorry, just that's fine. Just direct us here. Thank
you. >> I'd rather not, but
» I know. I know. [laughter] Thank you.
» Uh this property means so much to me personally. After my mother passed away
and my brother and I inherited the property, we both realized that even if
we bought each other out, we couldn't afford to do the upgrades that were
needed. nor would it be smart at our ages of 66 and 68 to take on the
responsibility of the property. It was so important to the my brother
and I that we sold this property to the right buyer.
We adamantly agreed after my mother passed away that we didn't want a
developer to purchase the property that we wanted it to be kept intact. And as
you can appreciate, when you're selling a property, you really can't force
another person to do something or not do something.
We were approached by the Victoria Humane Society and a deal was made. It
was a perfect sale for my brother and I as we knew the property would be kept
whole. We thought the Victoria Humane Society has graciously allowed my
brother and I to put a plaque on the property in memory of our parents. It
reads, "Loving caretakers of this property for 66 years."
I'm sorry. It's okay.
Victoria Humane Society is also giving me permission to come on the property
whenever I want
and I have done that. I've done that many times. My mom subscribed to
beautiful BC magazine. So whenever it comes she I got to call the magazine
there. So I've been there a lot. I've seen the improvements
they've done to the property. For example, a new septic field. The old
field was 54 years old. Another example of improvements on the property was
enormous amounts of cotch broom removed. Both of these are examples of huge
environment improvements. All improvements I've seen personally.
[snorts] I write I'm did write a letter. So, I
write the letter in support of Penny Stone and the Victoria Humane Society
application for a zoning change. They've been totally environmentally respectful
and responsible with this property. That means much more to me than it does to
anyone here. Please note, if they were not being environmentally responsible or
respectful of the property, I wouldn't I would be the first person here to speak
up against it. And I'm just asking to support the
Victoria Humane Society in their application for zoning reszoning. Thank
you. >> Thank you. And thank you, Miss Pollock.
And and on behalf of council, please accept our condolences. Uh Peggy was uh
admired and um a wonderful member of our community. I had tea with her at her
house. She was she was generous and um in
spirit and with her resources and uh yeah she was a true gem of this
community. So our condolences.
Okay. Next
Gary Lamb Hackmore Drive. Um I just want to raise uh a comment regarding the tax
exemptions being sought. uh in that many of the groups
um seeking the tax exemption are registered charities and as such are
able to provide tax deductible receipts and individuals can then claim a tax
deduction uh for their contribution whereas
increased property taxes are not tax deducted.
» Thank you.
Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Ivon Becker and I live on Liberty
Drive and I'm the president of the Machosen Hall Society. I want to thank
staff for their report and for recognizing the Hall Society continues
to meet the criteria for the permissive tax exemption. Mosen Community Hall has
sub served the community for generations. It provides a place for
weddings, celebrations, community groups, emergency support, culture
events, and local organizations. Like many uh nonprofits, we rely on certainty
so we can budget responsibly, plan maintenance, and continue serving
residents. The traditional permissive tax exemption framework has provided
that certainty for many years. From the hall society perspective, restoring that
framework for 2027 would allow us to focus on operating the hall rather than
wondering how future funding decisions may change from year to year along with
the added volunteer time to apply for the required grants. Whatever council
decides about the long-term direction of this policy in the future, we
respectfully ask that the organizations which clearly qualify under the current
criteria continue to receive the stability they need to serve the
community. Thank you for your time and for your consideration.
» Thank you, Miss Becker. Did you um identify yourself as a me a trustee? I
didn't hear it. Sorry. >> I'm not a trustee. I'm the president of
the Hall Society. >> Okay. Thank you.
» Judy Roer, Paris Road. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you for um the
opportunity to speak tonight. I am here to express my strong support for
maintaining full permissive tax exemptions for all the organizations
that have applied. While the report to council frames the cost of these
exemptions as an increase in property taxes, it unfortunately repeats a past
mistake. It completely fails to calculate the immense value these
organizations return to the Machosen community. These groups provide vital
services, programs, community spaces, and environmental stewardship. The value
to the municipality far exceeds the estimated cost to taxpayers. A true
costbenefit analysis is simply not complete unless both sides of the
equations are factored in. We all want to keep taxes as low as possible, but I
strongly recommend that council look to other areas to generate revenue. For
instance, pursuing light industrial development opportunities along Souk
Road would bring in substantial funding without undermining the very
organizations that serve as the cornerstones of our community. I was
actually very interested uh in what Mr. Baker said about [clears throat] a
referendum. I would before that because I think this community does want to see
some light industrial. Anyways, thank you for your time and consideration.
» Um Miss France, what road do you live on? Sorry.
» Uh um sorry, it's Miss Roer. Paris Road.
» Paris Road. Thank you. >> Sorry, it's very hard to hear with
hearing aids in this uh right where I am. Thank you.
Hello, Rachel Olsen, Typton Avenue. Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is
Rachel Olsen. I'm the secretary of the Victoria Motorcycle Club. I'm here in
support of the club regarding our application for the permissive tax
exemption. Thank you for the opportunity to appear. The Victoria Motorcycle Club
has been in continuous operation since 1912, making us one of the oldest and
largest motorcycle clubs in Canada. Our property is one of only two sanctioned
off-road vehicle sites on the South Vancouver Island, providing safe,
dedicated space for families to enjoy sport in our region. In the past year,
as noted in our application, we've hosted the Machosen Fire Department, the
search and rescue, and the Macho Machosen scouts, providing our
facilities at no cost to support their training, and we support the fire
department further through fundraising through our annual hill climb. We've
also worked directly with the Mosen Fire Department on fireing our property work
that was recently recognized in the Machosen Muse for its role in protecting
our neighbors and the surrounding community. As stewards of this land, we
take our responsibility to the surrounding environment seriously. We
are currently developing a master plan that will guide the long-term
sustainable and use of our trails. one that balances our members passion for
the sport through thoughtful land management, habitat protection, and
erosion control. Our goal is to ensure that our property continues to serve
both our community and the natural environment around it for generations to
come. I'm available to answer any questions if you have anything about our
application. Thank you for your time. Thank you.
I guess it's me. Wendy Mitchell, Woody Beach Road, uh, I want to commend this
council for a change that you are reconsidering the PTE. It
really is important. It It was just a crazy thing to try and change that. The
these organizations are so important to our community. So, I'm
really glad you're going to revisit that last decision you
made, and I hope that you just revert to the original, which I
think is option one there. It must be an election year because
you've listened to us all. We've all come out many times and talked about
this, so it's good. Thank you. I'm glad you're looking at it again. Hope you do
the right thing this time. >> Thank you.
Mr. Bennington, did you want to speak? There's there's uh a bit of time here. I
don't know if you wanted to go to the microphone or not.
I would just like to uh sorry it's Ed Bennington from Tain Road. Uh I would
just like to uh point out that the uncertainty of going forward with annual
sort of possibilities of changing stuff is make it very difficult for these
organizations. Uh I am associated with St. St. Mary's
Church which has for decades provided the funding to look after the heritage
church uh as one of their uh benefits to the community among the many other
things which have been pointed out uh by previous speakers. So uncertainty going
forward is very troublesome and uh our survival as a church within this
community is at risk depending on the decisions that you make.
» Thank you.
Okay. See, you know what?
Good evening. Kiara Kakawa, Perry Crossroad, uh, speaking in support of
the permissive tax exemptions. As someone who sat at the table for a
number of years and provided those tax exemptions to most of the organizations
that are on this list, they do require stable funding. They do require the
ability to know in advance what that funding will look like so that they can
look at what their programs are, what capital projects that they might need to
consider for this year or the next year or as they're as they're doing their own
financial planning. The volunteer organizations and not for-profit
organizations within Machosen, most of whom are asking for these permissive tax
exemptions, are ones that provide the fabric of this community and what it all
is that we hold dear as Machosen without the contributions that they do that may
or may not be monetary in value allows us to be proud Chosenites and to
continue having the environment that we live in which is rural in nature but
also allows us to function. The other item that I would like to
speak to is in regards to um Stacy Charles's uh Cho First Nation canoe
family partnership request. Honestly, my suggestion would be if you've got some
money left over in your grants and aids or in your um council discretionary fund
that you would consider providing them with a donation. Uh it is one of those
things where they they actually do quite a bit of of good work and this is great
for their community. I've had an opportunity in the past to sponsor this
uh personally through my business and um they they come asking um with the best
intentions at at heart in order to provide their youth in particular the
opportunity to participate in the tribal journeys. Thank you. Thank you.
Good evening. It's Ellen Fresh Perry Crossroad. Uh speak about three things
this evening. First off, the per permissive tax exemption bylaw. I think
if we take a step back to the principle of what we're trying to do here, which
is provide certainty all the way around, including to the district, we've got
four examples of requests for money on this agenda in addition to the request
for exemptions. And every meeting I've been at where we've talked about these
things, it comes down to how much money uh is is in our budget or conversely not
in our budget and having to make decisions at every meeting as to who's
going to get funded, whose proposal is worthy or not. And somewhere there needs
to be a balance in there that provides certainty to the taxpayers of Machosen
about where that bucket of money is coming out of which might be tapped from
a combination of permissive tax exemption and then other opportunities
for the grants that were just spoken about. So I advocate a a principled
approach on that. Number three, wholeheartedly support the reasonzoning
of um of the property for the SPCA. Um I have followed that one and I just wanted
to note on a technical matter on the recommendation in it. It refers to staff
seeking information from the applicant's qualified environmental prep
professional. The relationship there to request that information is not with
it's not between municipal staff and the QEP. It rests
with the applicant. So the applicant presumably is going to be responsible
for the billable hours and time that QEP has to put in answering the questions
that the district requests of them. So I'd look at how that request is
structured. Um, and then lastly, just in terms of the fireh hall update, um, I
just wanted to make those aware because I I wasn't aware until I was doing my
own research, um, that the Agricultural Land Commission approved the non-farm
use application for the future fireh hall uh, site, presuming it's it would
be here on the lands. great letter, 10 pages long, released May 12th, gives a
great summary of all the past applications
for uh removal of the ALR and then reversal and then all the many non-farm
use applications and the OCP amendments that were put in and uh continuous
reaffirmation that the property is meant to be used for uh public community
development. So, it's it's a good read and it's a publicly available letter and
uh I've got a copy of it here that I'll be sharing if those of you who are
interested. Thanks so much. Thank you.
Okay.
Seeing no other uh comments, we'll conclude uh public participation and
move along in our agenda. Next, uh, council, we've
sorry, we've got the adoption of the minutes. This is for the June 22nd, 2026
regular council meeting. >> Move adoption.
» Moved by council Schukan, seconded by council Donaldson. All in favor?
Opposed? Not opposed. If you're opposed, uh,
councelor Gray, just, uh, scream out. Okay. Otherwise, I will take it as in uh
voting in the affirmative. >> Uh we've got the receipt of minutes.
We've got we'll take these individually. We've got the receipt of the June 16th
draft parks and trails advisory select committee meeting.
Moved by council, seconded by council Donaldson. All in favor? Opposed?
Carried. Thank you. We've got the >> May I ask a question? I had a question
to ask. I'm wondering if the parks and trails
draft master plan will come forward for council.
» I'm I'm going to ask councelor Schukan to answer this. Uh could you answer the
question? >> Um
yes. And what is interesting about um the master plan? Two things. Um there is
the potential of a s significant revision because we're no longer ideally
after tonight talking about the buffer land as a as a potential park as a park.
So there'll be some revisions around that. Um we are also working on um some
mapping as well and that that is underway. Uh, I have received comments
from council don council gray for me ask from members of the community and we're
also factoring those into a new new draft and I'm hoping to circulate that
before too long. So, >> okay. Thank you.
» Okay. Uh, that uh motion was passed. We'll move along to June 23rd Mosen
Environment Select Committee. Um, one of you at the table go ahead
move adoption. Move moved by councelor Schukan,
seconded by council Donaldson. Comments. >> Yes, I it's Steve here. I just wanted to
um mention an important um event happened at our last meeting and that is
that Bill Cave um gave notice that he would um be stepping down from MASK.
Bill's been a longtime member and um a Machosen Friends of the Earth award
winner. We really appreciated Bill's input over these years and we'll be sure
to recognize him further. Thank you. >> Thank you. I see nodding heads at the
table. Uh we we welcome his wise guidance here. Thank you. Okay, I'll
call the question then on the adoption of the MROS environmental advisory
select committee meeting of June 23rd. Call the question. All in favor? Seeing
no one oppose that move. That is carried. Uh we Yep. I I think we may
have missed the uh special planning committee
» or jumped ahead. >> I'll I'll go back. Thank you for that.
» Um for adoption the June 23rd special community planning committee minutes. Go
ahead council. >> Proceed.
» Moved by councelor Donaldson. Second by council Donaldson.
All in favor? Opposed? Hearing none opposed. Move along to the June 25th
Health and Community Advisory Select Committee meeting minutes.
» Move for receipt. >> This is moved by council Schukan,
seconded by uh councelor. Oh yeah, it is received. Uh council Donaldson. All in
favor? No. In oppose? That carries. Okay,
moving along to the mayor's update. I'll be as brief as possible.
as soon as I get this up on my screen.
Okay. Um so, uh once a month, uh at a council meeting, I give a written report
regarding, uh my activities regionally and within the district. Uh this time it
was just there was there's been a lot going on. I did it in point form and got
I gave you um links to all the different media reports um um as well as uh
different um communicates for instance by Ro University. So I'll I'll just name
them. Um celebration of life for Lillian Mariebach who died um in office. Uh she
died in in May May 2nd of this year. There was a celebration of life uh held
at Royal Rose University on June 13th. I was asked by the family of Lillian to
give uh tribute to her as well as um the celebration of life was hosted by the
city of Langford. Uh the uh female counselors uh were the
MC's for the event. Mary Wagner, Colby Harter, and Kimberly Gyrie. Uh the
uh Ted Robbins, the CEO of the CRD, also gave a tribute as well as um Lillian's
daughter-in-law, Tanya Sunshine. Uh Roy Roads has set up
an entrance award and an endowment in Lillian's honor has been established. Um
the CRD will honor Lillian's name on an annual basis. Um that was also reported
in the news. Um, every year I've been delighted to attend the Kimosen College
spring comication. This year was uh dece or sorry June 17th. Uh, this was the
fourth year in a row. It was really an extraordinary event. I I I wish all of
council could have been there. Uh there were drummers, celebration, territorial
acknowledgements. Uh Sap Scott, a respected knowledge keeper, um cultural
facilitator, ceremonial dry uh drummer from the Sartup First Nation was there.
He is the son of Elder May as many of you know her, very revered and has deep
family ties to the First Nations. Um the governor general's collegiate prawns
medal was awarded to Gayang Yu. Uh this was event was hosted by Dr. Wayne Troder
the president of Kimosin College. Uh there is a change of command. Um
there was a change of command at CFBS Wyalt. I attended the ceremony in May.
The ceremony was to mark the change of command between Samuel Patchel CD to
Blair Brown OM MSC CD. Um this was at the invitation of Kevin Whiteside, our
bear base commander. Um there was uh of course uh welcoming and blessings from
Chief Jerome Thomas of Squyold uh First Nations that was also covered in the
news. I did had a lengthy conversation with Chief Chief Jerome Thomas who I've
met previously uh as a part of as vice chair of the CRD when we've gone out.
You okay? Yeah. Okay. Do you have a cough drop? Okay. Good. Um and um
anyways, that was a wonderful uh event. Uh we did have an open house as a part
of the Victoria Family Court and Youth Justice Committee. This is a deal
delegated CRD commission. I'm chair of that committee. Um, as you've known, uh,
last month I, um, shephered in our annual 2020 2025, uh, report. This was,
um, our open house to welcome back all those service providers that provide
valuable service for youth and families in our region. It was a it was a wild
success. Um, so on that note, [clears throat] I forgot to mention that
I have gone to Langford Council and to View Royal Council to also shepherd in
that report of the Victoria Family Court and Youth Justice as is my
responsibilities of of uh as chair of that delegated CRD Commission. Um, I
also attended the uh cadetses at the CSSC
SECC Beacon Hill, the 47th annual ceremonial review. It was marvelous
event um particularly because it was attended by the cadetses themselves and
their family. It was so celebratory. I was joined by regional partners uh Doug
Kobayashi uh uh the mayor of Cowwood, the mayor of
Langford uh Scott Goodmanson as well as MP uh Jeff Gibble Kibble from um where
is he the MP in Shanigan Lake area to the Malahhat. Um it was a wonderful
event seeing all of these young women and men graduating from the cadet
program with uh valuable tangible skills.
Um, I also attended, as some of you did, the Parisian Cafe put on by our
marvelous Mosen Seniors Association. This was on June 6th. It seems to almost
always rain on that event, but they were prepared. Uh, we had music and treats.
Um, the uh food was uh donated by Petisserie Danielle, so Danielle Voki,
so we thank him for that. There was great conversations
um as well as many seniors and dogs and our MLA Dana Leinesess was able to join
us for that briefly. I'm very proud to uh recognize that we did raise the pride
flag here in the district on June 25th and thank you to all of council for
joining me here. This marks the fourth consecutive year at the district had
chosen that we've raised the pride flag. Um, our staff was there, members of the
fire department, our MP, uh, Stephanie Mlan helped raise the flag. Um, she made
a special trip from Vancouver to attend our pride, um, flag ceremony. Uh we had
cake and co conversations uh members of the William Head Institution, Pearson
College, West Shore RCMP, our own fire department, the chosen search and
rescue, the art pod volunteers, some of them, and community volunteers uh were
here. We had an amazing turnout. So, thank you for joining us. I did march in
the Pride Parade yesterday. Um I actually I wasn't marching. I was
sitting in the central Sanage uh firet truck, the big rig that they have there
with Mayor uh Maya Tate from Souk. Uh we were invited to uh ride in the
firetruck. So that was something new. I didn't have to march and it was a
wonderful positive event. Uh we had the Canada Day Festivist
celebration right here in the district. Uh we're very fortunate to have the
Mosen Arts and Cultural Center Association, MKA, that put on this this
valuable and um quite um extensive celebration festivist um celebration to
honor Canada Day. It started with a horse parade. Uh Stella French um and
Anna Whitten uh started off the day. We had music, food, portraits, a blacksmith
demonstration. It was a wonderful Canada Day celebrations and thanks to council
for joining us there as well as the art pod maka um which and at the what I'm
now calling the machosen arts and recreation uh center or collective
center collaboration is called alchemy of creating. I invite everybody to go to
that gallery. It is absolutely phenomenal right now the exhibition that
they have. Um as well the as you know the Westshore
mayors have been meeting um every month for the past four years just to increase
the communications uh that uh wasn't there in the past. uh
we had all recognized that given our shared resources, given everybody is in
tight tight financial situations, all of the Westshore municipalities are feeling
it. We felt that it was important that we meet monthly and it was so important
in the beginning in early um or in late 2022 and early 2023. And I initiated
these meetings because I knew we had to have good communications because at some
point we were going to have disagreements and it's easier to have
disagreements with people that you know and people that you trust. So, we've
been meeting um monthly and uh July 3 was our final meeting of the four years
and I thank my regional partners Scott Goodmanson, the city of Langford, Doug
Kobayashi, city of uh city of Cowwood, uh Sid Tobias uh from the township of
Uroy, Maya Tate from the district of Souk, uh Waterf Director Al Wickham, who
am I missing? Oh, and Ken Williams uh from the district of of um Highlands.
This was so successful that we also had Mayor Barb Dejarden from Esquyimal
wanting to join our group and so she joined as well. So, it was great
communications and um great to get uh input from other mayors um at being a
new mayor at the time. Uh, additionally, I attended the Strong Cities Network.
This was hosted by Laura Peron of the city of Victoria. All of council
received that invitation. Um, and this was an opportunity for mayors and
councils within the CRD region and other civic leaders to explore all tools and
resources to respond to hate, extremism, and polarization. Maryanne Alto, the
mayor of the city of Victoria, um, presented her community safety plan. I
think everybody got a copy of that. If not, I can get you a copy. Um, it's uh
located or the link to this particular um network uh conversation and workshop
was was there, but there is uh that report and and I can get that for you.
Additionally, um some important things. So, we got uh
tea with the mayor. So, we've been meeting uh once a month. Um, I've
invited uh the community to come in and have tea and coffee and cookies to uh
talk about anything that is of mind uh for the citizens and that has been very
successful. The next one is tomorrow and the deputy mayor and myself will be
attending. I believe that is uh is that you?
» Yeah. And I know that you might have to leave uh quite a bit early because you
you've got other commitments. Uh but um if you can be there for 15 minutes,
that'd be great. Okay. And then as well uh we've got uh this Thursday there's
going to be music in the park in our pavilion here. The band that will be
playing is again Helen Davies and the High Definition Chicks. Uh they've um
they've uh played here before. It was wildly successful for the last three
years and I'm looking forward to that. It starts at 6 PM in the pavilion. Um
they will be setting up at uh 5 to 6. We'll have some Taylor Swift playing and
please bring your blankets and your family and a picnic.
Um and there's some other things that I missed on this update, but I'll uh
include in my September update. So that concludes my mayor's update.
Mayor Little, it's councelor Ray.
» Yes.
» Thank you for your um article. Also, just to mention the article in the news
about the police department, the RCMP building and the work being done on
that. Will we consider a report for that in at our September meeting?
» I didn't I didn't hear. Sorry. I when you speak my my um hearing aids sort of
go off with a echo. Can you repeat that? >> Yes. I said I wanted to add another item
and to thank you for the article you wrote in the news about the RCMP
building and the concerns that we have. And I wondered would we receive a report
on that in September? >> You won't receive a report from me but
you might from staff. So, that's the second letter that I've written or um
article that I've written for Mosen News regarding the RCMP
uh the Westshore RCMP rebuild. Um we are renters in that building and I thought
it was important for the community to hear the facts and get the links to the
V Royal and the city of Langford websites where all of the information is
there. Perhaps uh CEO Payet, would you like to comment on a report?
» Yeah, sure. Through the chair. Um, thanks for that question. Out there
where wherever you are, the um we're we're working with the Langford staff to
get some information on the on the um rental
issue and once we get that information, we can put together a report quickly. Um
I'm I'm sure we'll have it in September. Um but I'm we're waiting for information
um from Langford. So >> Okay.
» Okay. So with
» thank you. >> Okay. Uh with that um Thomas maybe you
can turn down the volume uh a little bit. Thank you.
Okay. We've got business arising. This is 7A in your council agenda.
Everybody's got that. This is the June 23rd special community planning meeting
zoning amendment application for 3280 Woodruff Road. Councelor Schukan.
» Thank you, Mayor Little. Um, we had extensive discussion on June 23rd and
there was, you know, significant public interest, I would say, in this
application and I recognize the people that uh wrote in at that time. Also want
to recognize Miss Pollock who um also has written in and spoken to us tonight.
Um, one thing we again, we talked about this on the 23rd. We're at a preliminary
stage with this zoning amendment application. And so what the motion that
we passed at the committee level does is it gives clear direction to a planner in
how to work with the humane society and the professionals all directed toward
what I believe is going to be a very strong conservation outcome
and or at least build the pillars so we can move on that on that road. So, and
so with that, I would like to move that council direct staff to proceed with
referrals for this zoning amendment application and that council direct
staff to seek additional information from the applicant's qualified
environmental professional regarding wildlife movement, habitat connectivity,
fencing, trails, and the potential effects of the proposed animal shelter
use, including associated site activities, structures, and future site
improvements on environmentally sensitive areas of the property,
including any recommended mitigation measures. And that council directs staff
in consultation with the applicant and legal council to explore potential
options to address environmental considerations associated with the
undisturbed southerntherly portion of the property, including the potential
use of section 219 restrictive covenant, and that staff report back to council
with a draft zoning amendment bylaw for consideration. So moved.
» Okay. This is moved by councelor Schugan.
» Seconded. >> Seconded by council Donaldson. Do you
want to motivate further council? Then I'll move to council Donaldson, then to
councelor Gray, and then I'll conclude with my comments.
» Very simply, yeah. This allows our planner um to advance the process and
return to council with a substantive package to consider again with these
environmental pillars in place. I I with respect to Miss Frri um she's probably
right about the um relationship between the applicant and the proponent sorry
the staff and the proponent but there is a relationship that our planner has with
the QEP as well. So I think the motion is is solid enough in that respect. Um
again it does give the green light for staff to discuss conservation covenants
and other options with the Humane Society. Um, and I I think it is the
right thing to do. If you're looking for a strong conservation outcome, this this
is the path to take.
» I'm sorry, Council Donaldson. >> Thank you. Um yeah, I had a lot of
questions uh regarding this application initially and I think that the second
paragraph here the and that council direct staff regarding the QEP and it
does list a lot of different things here. This is 38 over 38 acres and one
of the things they report out on is having up to 100 dogs and 100 cats and
you know that's a concern. Um, so I look I'm looking forward to a
much more conclusive um, report as to what it ex exactly is is going to happen
with this property, whether that's uh, 50 to 100 dogs or whatever uh, closer to
the buildings or is it going to be the whole property, that sort of thing. Uh,
one of the things that keeps coming up at the community throughout the
community is the um the fact that the uh the owners of this property
uh were very resistant to put a covenant on when they were asked about when they
were inquiring about a permissive tax exemption. This here now is asking again
but only a little bit different. This is a 219 restrictive covenant for the whole
property. So I am looking forward to what the outcome is, what uh work our
planner can um put together, working with the proponent and uh giving a much
more conclusive uh report on this with the end goal being a restrictive
covenant. [snorts] Thank you.
» Okay, councelor Gray. >> Yes. When I read the the motion again um
and consider our discussion earlier at the planning committee
in some we're asking the staff to negotiate a section 219 covenant with
the u proponent and we have a letter in other words in
writing the Victoria Humane Society said they
will not consider section 219 covenant or other measures to protect the natural
world there. As a result I cannot support this motion. I think that it is
futile to have that discussion at the moment. I would be prepared to um accept
a motion that asked staff to speak with the Humane Society
to get a better report on the environment. In other words, the second
paragraph of the motion. But I see no point in us expending valuable staff
time and legal um co legal costs when the developers already said they're not
interested.
Okay, thank you. Um I will I will be supporting this application. Um if you
look to the video of what was said at that meeting, um certainly uh the uh
person in charge, Miss Stone, Miss Penny Stone was very open uh to not only
having Bill Creek Watershed Protection Society come on the land. I introduced
her at the end of the meeting with uh to Allison Leuke uh who is spearheading the
Bilston uh watershed protection um society at the moment um the group and
um she was very receptive to that. I really wanted to see that connection um
as well. um she was uh a little bit more amendable to discussing covenants. Um
and I also want to beg the question with every application, are we now going to
ask for a special covenant or is it just for this group? because if another
person, another entity, another developer decided to buy this property,
they could um do whatever they want according to the zoning. And let's not
forget that the provincial government has brought down a number of different
bills and um a number of different bills. uh bill 16 uh the transportation
amendment act. Bill 43 the housing supply act we've talked about all this
bill 44 the housing statutes act um in which enables smallcale multi-unit
housing uh bill 46 development financing as well as bill 47 the transit oriented
areas. So if a um another entity was to purchase this property, they would be
able to develop it according to the zoning. And certainly we know from the
province that they're interested in housing, they're interested in in
growth. Um and that's why I stated all these different uh bills. Um so with
this property owner, um you've heard from Peggy Jerves's daughter who came
who wrote us a letter. It's included in the package as well. She spoke very
passionately at this meeting about the intent of her mother, the the initial
intent of her mother's wishes. Um she also spoke that both her brother and
her herself who inherited the property from Miss Jervis, they were very happy
with who they chose to sell the property to and they think that that they are
good stewards of the land. I think that speaks volumes. Um she also mentioned
that she's welcomed on the property at any time. They have the Victoria Humane
Society has allowed uh Miss Pollockch and her brother to go on the property
and place a plaque in memory of their mother Peggy Jervis as well. Miss
Pollock spoke at the meeting tonight and said that if there were environmental
concerns, she would be the first to speak out and she has no concerns. And a
lot of what we speak at at the table here is trust. I have trust in Miss
Pollock. I have trust in the Victoria Humane Society to do the right thing. I
know that another developer, another sorry, another entity such as a
developer could take that site and do things to it um um and develop according
to their zoning. We know that other people in the area do have property and
are are doing things that are outside their authority of zoning such as light
industrial activities when they're not supposed to be doing that. Um I'm very
confident in what the Victoria Humane Society is doing there. It it it puzzles
me why we are holding the Victoria Humane Society to a higher account than
we have other properties. and are we going to ask for a covenant on every
property? I don't think that's fair. I will be speaking um further in favor of
this, but at this moment I'll keep an open mind, but I will vote in favor.
Does anybody else have additional comments?
» Yes, I'd like to speak again. >> Yep. We've got Councelor Gray followed
by Councelor Donaldson and perhaps councelor Shukin would like to weigh in
for a second time as well. Go ahead, councelor Gray.
» I'm I guess I might say that we're already aware that the owners of
the property did not follow the riparian regulations.
So when you say you have full confidence, I I'm sitting in the other
camp because we've already seen actions on the property that were detrimental to
the environmental regulatory framework. I think councelor Schu has emphasized
we're early in the process and I'm simply saying rather than us spending
our money and time on this, let the proponents take their time and consider
whether or not they want to come forward um and um protect some of the property.
when you speak and say that you don't think the covenant's um appropriate,
well, that would mean voting against the motion because in this instance, Mayor
Little, what the motion is is to work towards getting section 219 covenant.
We're not talking about other properties. We're talking about this
property. And we're doing that because the planner has recommended it to
council and and we passed it a planning committee. So, you supported a covenant
then. Are you not supporting a covenant at this point?
Is that a question to me or to staff? >> A question to Mayor Little.
» Yeah, that's me. Um, so the the covenant I'm I'm what I'm saying is we need to
follow due process. We need to follow due process and and what is outlined by
our very experienced planner. That's what that's what I'm um suggesting. I'm
I'm questioning the wisdom of having to have uh covenants on all different
properties. I'm just wondering why this it's I think it's a valid question. Why
is this particular property being subject to to a section 219
restrictive covenant when other properties haven't been? I'm just
begging that question. Um the planner has suggested it with you at that
meeting. You will you will been have been able to hear that Penny Stone is
more open to that and she said she will consider that. I trust her on her work
regarding the um uh what did you term um problems with the uh riparian um she
mentioned that she didn't realize what what that she was breaking the rules
once once they were made aware that they were doing something that they shouldn't
do. they stopped and they've they've got valid um environmental professionals um
giving advice on this with that. I have trust in them. I'm sorry that you don't,
but I I do have trust. Uh councelor Schukan. Oh, sorry. I'm
sorry, Council Donaldson. >> Thank you. Um, one of the outstanding
concerns that I have, not just of the use of property, but this is an upland
zone >> and heavily treed, um, this is in the
Sucro corridor, um, adjacent to the buffer land section 25 and Neil Road.
And um being in the uplands, the one thing that I've learned from the last
report um in seeing some photographs was how much of the headwaters are um in the
uplands. And so protecting that is is quite valuable when we think about the
headarters of the Bilston goes all the way through our community. Um there are
a couple of farms that do have licenses on that on the water from that. Um and
so you know keeping the water pure and and clean and flowing. Um this is also
uh the value of having a restrictive covenant in that area. Um and there are
several properties that would have um subsidiary uh waters that go into the
Bilson. So the wershed is uh a valuable asset to our community and runs straight
through it. So again protecting that is is superior in my opinion.
Yeah, absolutely. Councelor Schuken. >> Yeah.
um in terms of the humane society's um you know actions around their fencing
and the stream crossings uh just to pull a quote from the planners or the sorry
the report from the QEP says the QEP reports that required remediation of
previous unremitted unpermitted stream crossings has now been completed in
accordance with the water sustainability act and no further remediation of stream
crossings is required. So, um I I thought Council Gray's comments at the
other day were were actually really aggressive in terms of terming things
illegal. Um uh and and I'm glad the the planner or Miss Johnson didn't take the
bait and u threw it back to the report itself. Um, the one thing I would just
say though is if anybody at this table wants to be that pointed and point out
um, unauthorized uses on sites that come before us for reasonzoning, say, that
they're consistent and that they they take a look at maybe unauthorized uses
that might be in place on some of those other things. So, I hope that is a
precedent that that might be set especially for certain individuals at
this table. And again, I ask folks to look around if they want to have a an
understanding of the impacts going on in that area. Look around, look broadly at
some of the neighbors to this particular property.
» So, I'll leave it at that. But the one thing I I take your point, Mayor Little,
why the Humane Society is being target like I I don't know the emphasis on a
covenant for this particular um property owner. Um, we have a number of um,
permissive tax exemption, sorry, organizations looking for permissive tax
exemptions coming up in the next discussion. I'm going to support I'll
tip my hat right now. I'm going to support the status quo. But I do want to
point out a few things. The Victoria Motorcycle Club, there's no covenant on
that property as I understand it. Um, um, the Chosen Hall Society, I'm betting
there isn't a protective covenant there. Uh, the YMCA, there is no protective
covenant there. the Boys and Girls Club, there is no protective covenant with
that organization. Um BC Parks Foundation on Hummingbird Hill, as I
understand it, there was no protective covenant there either. So I I'm a little
confused as to why the Humane Society is being singled out, but again, they've
indicated I saw them there um indicated a willingness to enter some discussions.
So yeah, I'll leave it at that. >> Yeah, good point. I think it's uh
council Donaldson has point out in the past about we should treat everybody
fairly and evenly and perhaps if this is the route we're going to go down um
perhaps with the Victorian Motorcycle Club, with the um Hall Society, Boys and
Girls Club, all of them, maybe they should all have protective covenants on
their properties. Um that's probably not practical and it might be expensive. Uh
but I think that needs to be considered if we hold one group and one property uh
to this. Um, and I take your point, council, and look around and um that
area um and uh see uh what is happening on some of the properties in in the area
um in terms of u not abiding by provincial legislations um cutting trees
that they shouldn't have uh destroying the canopy. Um so I I take your point
and thank you for that. Okay, I'm gonna call the question. Oh,
go ahead. >> Yeah, for for a third time. Go ahead.
» I just >> Yeah. Um, well, I think some said that
it it's worth um just covering a few points. One point is that the reason why
the planner is suggesting a covenant here, it's quite well detailed in her
report to us is to uphold our official community plan.
We're we're being asked for an amendment to zoning and that has led us and led
the planner to say now when that happens now's your time to step in and follow
the plan. It's a sensitive ecosystem. Make a move to protect it. So that's the
rationale. I'm sorry that people have missed it. On the second the second
point in relation to permissive tax exemptions, you will all recall that
last summer we passed a brand new policy such that we would uh on the advice of
me ask seek uh covenants on properties that have significant forest canopy in
time. We would have be we would have been doing that this year except that
council abolished the permissive tax exemptions for 2026. So it's already on
the books that we are going to pursue that policy not to force people but to
enter a discussion with them. But all those other organizations that were
named none of them are seeking amendments to their zoning. So that's
why this is special. It's not targeting them. It's in response to an application
for a zoning amendment and it's a simple responsibility of the local government
to follow its OCP and take that opportunity to move us forward. Thank
you. >> Thank you. Since I've given you the
third opportunity, I'll also give everybody else the the third opportunity
to speak. Does anybody else at the table wish to speak
um provide more commentary? Go ahead, Councelor Donaldson.
» I just want to uh uh clarify uh and hopefully everybody in the room
has followed this. Um we're talking about a zoning amendment, not a PTE.
that was PTE was a previous discussion that is not to be mixed up with this.
» I think that's that's very important. Um here um we'll discuss the permissive tax
exemptions later this evening. We're discussing this uh zoning application.
Now, uh um what I want to point out is uh even prior uh to this zoning
amendment application when we were discussing the permissive tax exemptions
and it goes back to 2023, September 11th, 2023.
And uh when Penny Stone came to council to talk about permissive tax exemptions,
it was at that time that Penny Stone was approached by members of our community
asking for uh a covenant. And at that time she was asked to give up part of
her property in exchange for um I don't know I I don't know what in exchange
for. Um that was not council. It was not the mayor. it was not our staff and and
I think um I don't think I know that that set the tone of the relationship
between the district of Machosen and uh Penny Stone rightly or wrongly. Uh I
think uh that and she acknowledged this when she spoke. She got her backup a
little bit. And I would too if I had just bought a property and I had
outsiders coming in and telling me that I needed to put a restrictive covenant
on my property and that I needed to give up part of the property that I was I had
just purchased from donor um contributions. And and so what I spoke
about quite passionately the last meeting was I want to see a reset in the
communications between the district between the residents and this property.
I think they are valued members of our community. I welcome them here. There
could be far worse you activities on that property.
I will vote in favor of this motion.
Okay. I'm going to call the question on what has been um put forward. Uh the
motion is there uh on screen and it is in your business arising 7A.
I'll call the question. All in favor? Those opposed?
» Opposed? >> Opposed by councelor Grave. That motion
passes. Thank you everyone. That was a good discussion. Moving along to reports
for action.
Reports for action. We have a request for a development development variance
permit 1010 Mat Lake Park Drive. We have a report here. And um who's going to
take that? Councelor Schukan. >> Thank you very much, Mayor Little. Um
again the variance request is for a setback of 24 meters just slightly over
that from 50 meters which is in our bylaw. Uh when all and and that is the
only thing there the building is the size of the um secondary suite as
required by the um land use bylaw. Um I will so from my perspective um the
proposed variance does minimize sight disturbances and helps maintain the
natural character of the property especially with the shared driveway and
with the one variance just being the setback um from the principal residence.
We're we're not considering everything else. the residences or sorry the
setbacks from the side and front of the yard are well within our um our
allowances. Now I do take Mr. Gross's um comments um but into consideration but
we do take those into consideration. We look at what the potential impacts are
to biodiversity elements and consistency with community values and also um
especially the setbacks the required setbacks. So with that, I would like to
move that um council direct staff to issue development variance permit
application 2602 further recommendation. So moved.
» Moved by councelor Shukin, seconded by council Donaldson. Do you wish to
motivate further further?
» Okay. No comments from councelor Shukin. Councelter Donaldson,
» I just want to comment that uh we did do a site visit
» uh to see where uh the the lay of the land was. There are no trees or
shrubbery in the way. It's uh interesting that it isn't upland zone
because it was uh fairly level. Yeah.
» Um the concern in the report was that there was a rock in the middle of the
driveway. I didn't see that, but that again isn't a concern. They put the
driveway where they needed to. uh based on the bedrock underneath and the um and
cited the fact that the uh secondary dwelling on the opposite side of that
drive shared driveway to the house. Um anything closer uh there's quite a a
deviation into the um of the land that goes into say the basement area. the
frontal part or I guess the Maton Lake side of it is more filled. So building
on fill isn't as um secure I suppose than where they sited. So I do
appreciate the site that they have. I um empathize with the neighbor with the
sounds traveling because there has been nobody on this property ever. There's no
dwellings on this property. It's been vacant for no
forever I guess. Yeah. So, so that will be certainly an adjustment. Certainly
something um that maybe the neighbors can um work through as well. So, I I do
understand the concerns there. >> Okay. Councelor Gray, you weren't able
to attend the site visit. Um but did you have any comments regarding this?
» Yes, I do. We've looked at quite a few variances um
for this sort of thing and this is the first time we've heard from a neighbor
opposing the application for variance on the basis of the noise and disturbance.
Um each time we've looked at the variances
I've considered I think council considered two questions. One was would
it disturb the neighbors um as much or more than the principal
residents? And two was what about the driveway? A single driveway with no
opportunity for a new driveway which might um
encourage subdivision interest in future times. So of the two tests, this one
seems to fail on the first test. um the disturbance of the neighbors and
I'm also concerned with the issue of Mr. Gross when he spoke said he re
received the referral on Friday before to before the meeting today on Monday.
So, I'm wondering about the other neighbors and I'm curious if we and
maybe I'm pitch to the planning chair, M councelor Schukan, should we be
deferring this until we hear concretely from all of the neighbors who have been
sent referrals,
» councelor Shuken, um we can also ask staff um uh Mr. Payet, as I understand
it, um we did receive replies from um anybody else that received the letter,
» Miss uh Miss Barnes or CEO Payet. >> Um I don't really have a response other
than um if there's if there's a date on the
letter to respond by maybe. I don't remember seeing the letter, but we could
look that up. >> Okay. quickly.
» This this was a letter that was sent to the the neighbors regarding the
application. Go ahead, councelor >> Shugan. Um I'm I'm not preferred sorry
I'm not prepared to um wait. I mean if the vote at the table is is such um we
can the one thing I would just say whether it's 15 m 24 meters the you know
the impact of sound is unlikely to change
» based on you know the secondary Sweden and the difference of um what is it 9
meters so again as councelor Donaldson says there's been no home there
» ever so that is a change I I and we all sorry there are many of us in the
community that go through this. Uh you live next to a site that isn't developed
and all of a sudden you've got uh great neighbors next to you and their lovely
dog and children and all that and you hear noise you never did before. So,
» Right. Right. And actually, since we've got the applicant here and the neighbor
at this meeting, perhaps we can after the council meeting introduce them both
so that they have a starting basis for a good neighbor uh to neighbor
communication. um because many of the issues that we deal with or or that
staff deals with are neighborto- neighbor issue and it costs us a lot of
money and by law enforcement. So uh let's um I hopefully these two parties
can um connect and talk about their mutual uh differences and uh their the
places where they meet on. Okay.
And that's also about the the site visit. That is the beauty of us going to
the site and seeing for ourselves. Um seeing uh plans on a map are very
difficult uh to make a decision and that's why we insist upon every time
going for a site visit and that's the beauty of seeing that that property
because it's not a a large uh canopied property. It's pretty wide open and it
is in the definition of the uplands. It's sort of rocky outcrops. uh it's not
necessarily a a treed area uh where you'd have that buffer. Um but the
property owner also at that site visit that that others that didn't attend it
would know. Um it was pointed out to her that or to um the the uh mother of the
owner of the property that there's a very a huge amount of gor growing which
is a huge fire hazard uh for us in this community as we saw in California when
uh the hills went up and it was u some of it due to uh species like gorse and
so um she said at that time thank you uh we've got the digger here or the the
bulldozer here we can rip it with the bulldozer and um but there's some on the
other side of the fence. So, they'll have to have those communications with
their neighbors. So, okay. Well, let's move to calling the question then. I'll
call call the question. All in favor? Those opposed?
» Opposed. >> Uh those uh that passes unanimously.
Councelor Donaldson. Did you vote in favor?
» Yeah. Council Donaldson, Council Schukan, myself voted in favor.
Councelor Gray was opposed. Okay, moving along to reports for
information. We have the District of Mosen public communication statistics
report June 2026.
If I could have a motion. Yep. Move receipt by councelor Shukan, seconded by
council Donaldson. comment. Get these monthly. I'll call the
question. All in favor? Opposed? No one opposed. We have the District of Mosen
building inspection department report June 2026.
The report. I'll take a motion.
» Moved by councelor Shuken receipt. Seconded by council Donaldson. All those
in favor? Anyone opposed?
Hearing no one opposed. Let's move along to 10. A this is correspondence. We have
a request from the mayor of the city of Victoria. A request for contribution to
support the 2026 Truth and Reconciliation Day ceremonial event. The
letter is there for your perusal. Um what say ye? Does anybody have any
comments regarding this letter? I will comment then. I think um I think
it behooves us if we've got some money uh to support the city of Victoria. I
think even a nominal uh a very modest uh donation of let's say $200 to support
this. We've never supported it before. It is a regional um activity. It's
attended by thousands. were welcome to attend and I would ask maybe a comment
from our CFO if we have money um in the budget uh to do this. If not then then
we don't do we have any um extra funds. Uh we're pretty tight here. Uh CFO Creek
» through the chair. Um so council has already given away all the money that's
been budgeted for the grant aid um for 2026.
But if you wanted to give 200, we could uh pull something out from the uh
unappropriated surplus. >> Okay.
» And that would hold uh for other requests uh such as the First Nations
Canoe Family uh tribal journey as well if we were to go down that route. Um
that would be from um surplus as well >> through the chair certainly could do
that. Uh but we've actually we do have some grant funding that is more than
likely available for that purpose. We can talk about that one pops up.
» Okay. So we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Let's deal with this one. Uh
Maryanne Alto's request. >> Uh go ahead council shooken.
» Mayor Little, if that's a motion to support the um the regional powo at
$200, I'll second it. >> Okay. Yep. So that was moved by me.
Mayor Little, seconded by councelor Schukan. Anybody else have any comments?
Okay, I'll call the question. All in favor?
Those opposed? Hearing none opposed. Let's move along
to 10B. This is a request from Julia Leget, a manager of the counseling
programs for the P Pacific Center Family Services Association. This is a request
for longterm funding for the mobile youth services team.
Uh, you can see the letter there. I'm just pulling it up. My my computer has
frozen. Oh, there we go. Okay. So, this is the
letter dated uh June 30th out of interest for everybody in the um
community. This was sent to every council, every municipality in the
region within the CRD. So, they're they're advocating. This is the Pacific
Center Family Services Association located in the city of Cwood. Um, they
are advocating for long-term funding for the mobile youth services team, which is
uh a team composed of a counselor and a police officer that moves throughout the
region responding to youth and family concerns regarding
um sex trafficking, regarding um youth being in trouble for one reason
or another. they're supported by this pro this program and uh otherwise
they're facing violence um gang recruitment, sexual exploitation and
trafficking uh substance use um and in contact with the police or the courts at
the Victoria Family Court and Youth Justice. We have been advocating
strongly for the eight years that I've been on the committee. I'm chair of the
committee and I'm actually quite exhausted writing letters and speaking
about the need for this um long-term uh funding for this group. As you'll
mention at this table, we did hear from Superintendent Todd Preston that he had
changed the model which was very unfortunate without notice to us,
without engagement, without any kind of consultation. We heard about it after
the fact that the uh Westshore was no longer going to be a part of the uh
missed or a part of that mobile youth services team. Um which was very
disappointing to me and I'm hoping that will change in the future. But regarding
this specific ask, um I did put put forward a notice of motion at the CRD
table last week. Um and that passed unanimously and that was to ask, it was
simple ask. It was to ask the staff at the CRD to consider funding options.
What is available at the CRD table for this regional mobile youth services
team? And I I brought that forward because it is applicable. It is a
regional table that I sit on and this is a regional service. So this is not
problems that are only happening in Langford. Believe me, it's happening in
Oak Bay, Central Sanage, Sydney and this mobile youth services team is uh moves
across borders. I'm very passionate about the group. Um and uh that's why I
um I put forward the notice of motion. So I'm not sure if um we need to
actually do anything. We can send an advocacy letter. That would be great. Um
I've written hundreds I'm sure for the mobile youth services team and I can
write one more. Um but we it is um at the hands of the CRD uh right now and I
think that is more appropriate than individual municipalities responding
with with um either advocacy or funding. Have I made that clear? Yeah. Okay.
Councelor Donaldson, >> I'm just wondering um as I read through
this letter um >> I understand the value of of this group
for sure. >> Um but like so many things keeps getting
downloaded to municipalities. >> So I appreciate you making the notice
motion and I would like for us when we when when you move that along to to get
more of a report on that. But I'm also thinking we're also going to UBCM and if
it's if there's an opportunity to put in a late resolution
» to this effect >> because that is the place to do it.
» Yeah, we have had no motions um delegations at at UBCM before. U but
it's a good it's a good thought. Let's let's put our heads together and and um
put in a a late motion. That's that's a good idea. Um what was your first point?
I've forgotten. Well, I'm just saying like the um the fact that this is a very
valuable service, >> right?
» Right. Um you've got this notice motion at the CRD
and and all the leaders there of the region are there.
» Um [clears throat] yeah, you could you could write another letter to the
province, but it may fall on deaf ears, but rallying up
» sure >> everybody in the region. Yeah.
» Um and then I look further on here about the percentage. I mean 1% of Machosen
just in our budget alone that's $30,000. But if we compare that with, you know,
um other communities here, they're paying more. Obviously, they got more
people, that sort of stuff. It's I don't know. It's it
it's only 1%, but 1% is a lot of money. >> It is a lot of money for us. Yeah.
» Okay. Regarding I'm so glad that you brought this up, Councelor Donaldson.
Very perceptive of you. that uh comment regarding downloading was also at the
CRD table. It was my Tate actually that that mentioned that we have been subject
we as municipalities have been subject to uh downloading and what my response
to that was that the province um they're in uh billions of dollars deficit. Um I
understand that um the the federal government also has different priorities
at the moment uh given the global global crisis. Um it's just simply I brought
this forward because I'm impatient and I'm not trying to point fingers at the
province or the feds. I'm just impatient because it's been eight years of hard
advocacy and we haven't seen anything move. And so that's why I brought it to
the CRD table and it passed uh unanimously by the way despite the
reservations from uh the the um district of Souk and the city of Colwood. It it
was a unanimous uh decision to ask staff to go back and look at funding options.
Okay. So um I think what we should do if you don't mind my direction is move
receipt of this letter. Would that be palatable at the table? Okay, go ahead.
Council Dalson, would you like to do that?
» Yeah, I would suggest that we move receipt on this um this correspondence.
» Okay. Moved by council Donaldson, seconded by council Shukin. Any
comments? Call the question. All in favor?
Opposed? That's unanimous. Okay, great. Uh moving right along to
uh other correspondents. This is correspondence in 10 C from Kevin
Murdoch, the mayor of Oak Bay. This is a request for advocacy letter for
continued local government climate action program LGCAP
funding and this is the correspondence certainly a great idea. Does anybody
want to comment on this or make a motion? Let's put the motion on the
table. Councelor Shuk, >> I um I believe that we had talked about
writing our own letter >> and um
happy to assist you with that, Mayor Little. And uh yeah, I very much agree
with the principles and I think it was a letter that we got from Sandwich
» previously. >> Yeah, that's right. Okay, that's right.
» Okay. Um but uh that I think that motion is already in place so I can make a
motion to receive. >> Sure. and and um
yes, we did have that motion previously. I'm just looking to staff to uh comment
on that. And the letter is in draft form, our own letter, right? Yeah. Okay.
Yep. Um written hundreds of letters and I appreciate your support and and help
uh councelor Schukan. Okay. So, uh, move receipt from councelor Schukan, seconded
by councelor Donaldson. All in favor? Opposed? Carried. We have
10 C, correspondence from Stacy Charles, Shiano First Nation Canoe Family
Partnership Support for Tribal Journey 2026 event. We did support them a couple
of years ago. They didn't they went to the CRD last year. They're not asking
the CRD. They've come back to us uh for a request. Anybody at the table want to
move this forward? Councelor
» councelor Shu can go ahead and then we'll talk. Go ahead. Put it on the
table. >> I I wonder if we might find a way of
contributing a thousand dollars to the uh to this event. That is what we
provided a few years ago. If there is a grant uh which councelor Donaldson had
mentioned I I don't know what is available in the grant but
» yeah that's what was indicated by the CFO we can ask him to comment. So let's
put the motion on the floor uh moved by councelor Schukan to support the tribal
journey by $1,000 seconded by council Donaldson. Um do you
want to further motivate No. Uh, Council Donaldson,
» I I would like to um include um comments from our um colleague um
Council Gray is he had some correspondence he was sharing with us
earlier about um grants or something like that. I can't remember.
» Yeah. Yeah. Let's move to the CFO and then we'll move to councelor Councelor
Gray. um CFO Creek uh regarding the grant that that might be um this might
fall under that category >> through the chair. Uh so the district um
received funding in 2024 and 2025 for indigenous engagement and
reconciliation. Um it seems like it would likely fall under that scope. Um
it would certainly help with the grant reporting if one or more council members
wanted to also attend this. Um, but we'd certainly have ordered enough in there
to uh give them $1,000. >> Okay. Okay. Councelor Gray,
» yes, I'll be attending the event. Um, my suggestion was that we had received some
money under a grant as
thisation. I wonder if we could just um be reminded on the the total amount of
that grant. We haven't spent any of it as far as I'm aware.
» That recent grant, I don't believe we spent any. Um I'm just going to return
to our CFO, CFO Creek. Can you comment on that
» through the chair? Uh correct. We haven't spent any of it. Uh and right
now we've got $96,000. Uh now, the fire chief is going to be
using some of that funds in order to uh build out the EOC program. Uh and that
requires the cooperation of uh Beach Bay Shu. uh and so that will take up tens of
thousands uh as they build out that report and hire the consultants etc. So
I wouldn't give it all for this particular program but there's certainly
enough funding in there. >> Yeah. So what I'm hearing we we can
within the grant framework we can definitely afford to give uh $1,000 for
this tribal journey as well. Okay. I will be attending as well. I did attend
the uh Shano First Nations tribal journey last year and potlatch very very
interesting event and hope to be invited to the pot latch again this year. Uh but
the tribal journey was was definitely an um really interesting event to witness.
I'll be attending as well and I'll encourage others to
Okay, >> Mayor Little.
» Yes, >> Mayor Little.
» Yes, I'm here. I'm I'm intending to volunteer at the event and I would
certainly support the donation of $1,000 and then I would hope that we would then
uh look to other things that we might support with Shannon Nation with the um
much remaining fund as we heard from the CFO and our fire fire chief activity. So
I look forward to expanding those dollars in support of our dear
neighbors. >> Yes indeed. Uh go ahead councelor
Schukan. >> I wonder if we could ask Mr. Creek if
there is a um timeline or sorry a time limit in terms of spending this
particular grant through the chair. So we've already
gotten an extension as the 2024 funds were supposed to be spent by the start
of 2026. Um that didn't happen. The previous fire chief was working with
them to try and arrange something. Um but we should have it spent by 2027.
But if that doesn't occur, we're sure they'll give us another extension anyway
for another year on top of that to 2028. But
» okay. >> Okay.
» Just um clearly this is probably something the next council should give
some consideration to. It's >> in terms of putting it in the budget.
um in terms of how we work with Channu to spend the money effectively and yeah
» as I as I understand perhaps staff can comment um the EOC emergency management
there is a they are working on an emergency management plan in
collaboration with Shannu uh uh for Shano uh first nation and they're
developing those and and quite a bit of the funds will be directed towards that
is that not correct Yeah.
» Okay, that's great. So, we do even though we can't see it, there are those
channels of of collaboration and supporting each other.
» Great. Just, you know, two ideas I might throw out if there are funds. Um,
shoreline protection might be um something to look at. Shoreline
assessments >> um but also um invasive removals as
well, whether there's a way of funding that both at Chanu and and here as well.
So, >> yeah. Okay. Okay. Good conversation. Um,
I'm going to call the question on that. That is 10D. Stacy Charles Shana, First
Nation Canoe Family Partnership Support for the Tribal Journey 2026. I'll call
the question. All in favor? Those opposed?
None opposed. Okay, let's move along to um uh how far along are we here? You
know what? I'm just going to take a 90 second break. Um yeah, everybody stretch
their legs and come back in less than
Let's uh resume our meeting here. Any of the conversations and perhaps you
can move out to the parking lot for further discussions and we'll resume our
our council meeting. Thank you. Okay, moving along to item number 11,
bylaws. This is the park dedication buffer land bylaw 2026 number 721.
This is bylaw number 721 at third reading. Uh council Schukan, do you want
to start off or council Donaldson? >> Yes. I'd like to move that council adopt
park dedication buffer land bylaw to 2026
number 721. This is moved by council Donaldson,
seconded by council Schukan. For those in the room, it's displayed up on your
on the screen here. Uh, council Donaldson, if you would wish to motivate
further. >> Uh, I just want to uh thank all of the
people that have been involved in this process starting with the Bufferland
working group. Um, actually may have been started before that, but they
formalized the recommendations for staff. um staff have done a great deal
of work on it as well. We uh I think we've had two different planners working
through this process and um and now we have a uh an energetic group of uh
friends of bufferland doing invasive work and looking at the future of
managing or protecting in their way of their neighborhood the uh buffer land.
Um and here we are this evening for the third reading of uh
the bufferland having a new zone. Um and I would defer the next um uh bit of
history perhaps to my colleague councelor Shukin as to um how it came to
be to have this place called the buffer land.
» Yeah, thank you. that would be helpful because um people in the room and others
haven't been paying attention probably for the full length of this. This has
been a long drawn out process over the last four years. So I'd appreciate a a
brief synopsis. >> Yeah. Yeah.
» Well, um just let me begin by saying wow and thanks. Um this has been yeah four
years in the making and I remember having a conversation even before the
the term began. um talking about the responsibility that the community has to
the residents living in the Neil Road area because of the vote that was taken
in 2017 that involved the land swap because it does have the potential of
bringing in these um section 25, 28 and 95 into Machosen in terms of ownership
but it also did lead to the impacts that those neighbors are feeling in terms of
the development of Central Mountain. Um this is a big step toward that but um
there's a lot of work ahead of us as well and as councelor Donaldson was
saying we have a great group of energetic volunteers who are going to
help us help the council of the day think through some of the issues and put
forward ideas and also do some of the leg work on this as well. Um so again uh
yeah we've been through um we the very first thing that triggered this way back
in early 2023 was news of the storm water the covenant
that would allow a storm water detention pond on the buffer land and it was it I
think from that that we decided to get mobilized and do a working group on the
bufferland which began I think it was in early 2024. We did our report on time in
October of 2024 and again went through some you know swirl and the usual
bureaucracy of getting this moving along. Mr. PayP was very helpful at um
moving moving again this to um a good conclusion by bringing in a contract
planner when our current planner was busy with the the housing work housing
report that sorry housing amendments uh that were done and as needed to be done
by the province. So, here we are. And uh I uh if goes without saying, I'm gonna
vote in favor. So, thanks everyone. >> Okay. Any other comments or concerns?
» Yeah. Councelor Gray here. I just want to um enthusiastically support the
motion. Thanks to everyone who's worked so hard on this.
» Yeah. and my my [clears throat] excuse me my my congratulations to both council
Schukan and council Donaldson who took this up. It wasn't in your portfolio
originally. It was in the environment portfolio, but you you um took it on as
your own. Uh there was great excuse [clears throat] me great public
engagement um great outreach to the community and this is a wonderful
outcome uh for the bufferland. Okay, I'll call the question. All in favor?
Those opposed? No one opposed. That's unanimous.
Congratulations, council. Next we have the general tax exemption bylaw 2026
number 723. This is a report followed by a number of
different uh schedules A to J. There are recommendations [snorts]
here. Um I think what we'll do is we'll go to the report first. Um here that
I've got some general comments after that. Uh and we've got a number of
different options tonight. Um including deferral to a September 21st meeting if
needed. if council needs more information to make that evidence-based
decision that we've been talking about for the last four years. So with that,
I'll turn to our CFO, Jeffrey Creek. Go ahead, Mr. Creek.
Thank you, Mayor and Council. So through the chair, uh this is as you mentioned
the 2027 permissive tax exemptions. Uh council may grant permissive tax
exemptions to qualifying properties under section 224 and 225 of the
community charter. Uh permissive tax exemptions are discretionary and must be
established by bylaw before the statutory deadline. Uh this related
bylaw must be adopted by October 31st or November 2nd because October 31st is on
the weekend this year. Uh but November 2nd is the first day of the new council
and they can't pass it by law uh that they didn't do the first, second, third
reading on. So it's all you guys. Um purposes report lay out the uh
applications that have been received estimated financial impact and then
whether or not uh council wants to approve a full partial or no permissive
tax exemption for 2027. [music]
So the district received eight different organizations applications. Uh they
cover 14 different properties valued at close to $34 million.
Uh they provide space for rent, recreation, reserved habitat, religious
services, and animal welfare wildlife care. Um all the applications were
reviewed against policy F100.60. All applicants were found eligible for
permissive tax exemption based on those criteria. And so while the district uh
while they met the district policy for approval, council has discretion based
on policy and the community charter on whether to approve any or all groups and
how much of an exemption is provided. Uh so I didn't estimate based on their
2026 assessed value and then at 5% tax increase uh in 2027 and the total uh
value of exemptions would be 324,000.
Um there was a few criteria that like maybe kind of pause and think on whether
or not they did qualify. Uh under the policy if a portion of the land or imp
improvements is used by a private sector entity and or organization not meeting
exemption criteria. And so with [clears throat] this the
Anglican Church currently rents out their building to a number of groups
such as Drivewise, Exercise Classes, Elections BC, and Elections Canada. And
those are groups that would not meet council's exemption criteria, but
because they rent out that space, uh they receive a benefit of below market
rent due to the exemption provided by the district. Um and then further
criteria maintains an organization does not compete with private enterprise.
This is a little harder to do in Mosen as it's not a big business area. Uh but
there are some private event spaces to rent and machosen which could be
negatively impacted by machosen providing funding for some operations of
these organizations and not others if they're not owned by a society or
nonprofit organization. So a small caveat but historically the district's
always provided an exemption or in this case uh for 2026 a grant.
Uh so in 2027 uh we can see that the on page three
here the municipal tax value of the total exemptions would be $167,000.
The other taxing authorities would be $157,000
for a total of 324. The impact on municipal taxes is about
$80 for the average residential property or about 4% of their total tax bill from
chosen. And then below I get into um the rising
cost of this. So as the district I chosen um has a very small and almost
non-growing tax base. Uh the cost of the grants and permissive tax exemptions
that have been given for over the last three years. Uh it's growing from
344,000 up to $457,000 uh next year if these permissive tax
exemptions are granted. and the subsidies and grants to other
organizations remain the same as estimated for 2026.
Uh there's a breakdown where this comes from. So there's grant aid for 5,000. We
give grant a taxes permissive taxes for $240,000 this year. We give grants to
organizations of $42,000. And then with subsidized rent to MEA, community house,
that type of thing for 86,500.
When we compare that to the rest of the CRD, um we chose in as at at the top of
the list. Uh so our total grants and tax exemptions would come to 8.3% of total
tax revenue collected. Um the average in the CRD is 2.98%.
The median is 2.25%. If we focus solely on permissive tax
exemptions, the average in the CRD is 1.79%
compared with a median of 1.7 whereas Machosen has uh gives 4.68%.
So Mosen's not the only one where everybody comes to ask for money. Um
there happens in every municipality. So a number of municipalities in the CRD
have already decided to put a cap on their permissive tax exemptions. And so
this is something council can consider this year talkable for next year and
possibly implement in the future. But if we look at the table uh souk so they put
a limit of 1.7% central san 1.5% Victoria is 1.6% and squalt 5% whereas
oak bay doesn't provide any tax exemptions unless it's a nonprofit or
charity organization that is renting municipal land. Um and then there's a
few more on the island mainland itself. But
it is uh if MHosen were to limit their exemptions to the same as Souk at 1.7%
at the highest on the island here um or in the CRD total value would be knocked
down to 90,900 or 55% of the total estimated tax exemptions for 2027 which
would save residential property owners about $38 on the taxes along with
savings from the other taxi authorities like parks and recck transit Victoria
Library etc.
Um so the process and timeline here so we've received all the applications
reviewed it um coming to hear for council's direction on what they want to
do. We do have to put out a public notice under section 227. We have to
advertise in the paper for two consecutive weeks. Uh and so there's a
possibility that this cannot be wrapped up on September 21st. Um but ideally
no later than October 5th to avoid calling a special meeting before the
election on October 17th. Uh so staff is coming um asking for a
few options here whether to provide full exemptions to all properties that
applied full exemptions to some prop some groups and partial exemptions to
others that generate income from ineligible groups. Set a funding limit
on the permissive tax exemptions i.e. 2% of total tax revenue or don't provide
any exemptions. And now there is um put the caveat on there could be some people
with conflict of interest that was mentioned last year. Um they say discuss
the policy and report as a whole before diving into any individual groups
itself. Um and then if needed uh we can come back on September 21st with
multiple bylaws that break out the groups that would have a conflict of
interest or not if we don't have a quorum when people declare a conflict of
interest kind of go from there discussion.
» Okay. Uh I think what we'll do is we'll excuse me entertain uh questions and
concerns and then we'll move to other aspects. So questions and concerns,
who wants to discuss it? >> Um,
so uh I want to thank Mr. Creek again for continuing to expand our knowledge
of permissive tax exemptions and the fiscal impact they have um on our
taxpayers. Uh again, I don't believe that this was fully known and except um
when this was brought up last year. Um and even me once I had it, I had to
probably have it explained about four times. Um the point was made last year
that if we were to make any sort of change to PTEES, we really should give
the groups significant notice on that. And and that is a point I will confess
that I lost and I think is actually a wise one. So my own as I as I look at
things right now and without the benefit of my comments from my colleagues I
would be in favor of continuing the PTEES as they once were. So maintain the
status quo but also suggest that there is a deeper discussion that is held on
permissive tax exemptions and the other funding that we provide to community
groups and initiatives um
and and have that deeper discussion in terms of the PTS. I mean the discussion
might go in terms of what what level you know we set but the point was made I
think by Mr. Bennington too about the year after year of having to um um come
to council and apply like and and that does leave these groups with a bit of
uncertainty. So that might also be a topic of conversation once we get into
the deeper issue. Um so so again my my I'm I'm interested in hearing what my
colleagues have to say. My suggested approach would be to maintain the status
quo with PTEs but also discuss PTEs and the other funding that we provide to
community groups sometime in the new year and this would be under the new
council as well. So, >> so there's um some is some comments that
our staff can make regarding our statutory obligations and what we are
confined to do with permissive tax exemptions. I'm going to turn to our uh
CFO Creek. Could you comment on some of those and some of the other concerns of
of councelor Shu? >> Certainly. Thank you through the chair.
Um so I guess going going back to the original idea there of having to apply
every year to get this exemption. Um so before we put in the policy in 2025,
right, um the policy we chosen was a page and a half and there was no
application, right? people just wrote in a letter said, "Please give us an
exemption or we do X and then they got it." It was always on an annual basis.
It was never you've got this forever, right? A municipality can't give a tax
exemption forever to anybody. There's a limit of 10 years, right? So, I haven't
seen anybody that does give an exemption for 10 years. Most of it, some people
have done it where we'll give her four years, right? line up with the council
term. Don't lock in the next people. And that's certainly something we can do.
Um, come 2027, new council shows up. It's like, hey, like church always gets
it, the hall always gets it, YMD always gets it. Put it in, lock it in for four
years. This is what you're going to get. Then they know. Um, now we'll provide
the certainty. I don't really know where the idea that we never [clears throat]
like there was no application process before, right? So people just assume
that they would always get it. Some kind of handshake agreement that was made
that hey don't worry about it you'll never we'll never challenge you on it.
Um and so I would say when I first started here
right everybody just complained about their taxes being too high even though
you know be the bad guy that pointed out it's like second lowest in the CRD. Um,
and so when we find out that all these organizations that are applying, the
majority of them had net incomes, like after all the expenses of half million
dollars, some groups have like get it give a give a grant to a group that has
$3,000 in cash in their bank account. But to give a grant to somebody who has
$300 million in their bank account kind of blew my mind, but do whatever you
want with the money. I don't get to make a decision. Um, so it was kind of
pointing out, look, all of these organizations, nonprofit, they're still
making millions of dollars, and so they can pay, you would think they would be
able to pay $5,000, $6,000 to contribute to the roads, the fire services that
they all rely on in the in the district, but again, didn't go over went over like
a lead balloon. But this is where we can come out and say 2027 pass four years.
like look, we got to we really need to take a look at this because over the
next over those four years, the cost for this district are just going to keep
escalating and if we have no tax base growth again, it just gets dumped onto
the 98 93 and8% that are residential property owners. Um, and so it just gets
more and more burdensome on them. And I I get it. They all these groups provide
something, but um you gotta find some middle ground on support, but also help
for the people that do struggle to live here that have been living here for 30,
40, 50 years. >> Did you want to carry on with your
conversation and your questions and then we'll move to other people?
Yeah, I um sorry just just really briefly um you know the the comment that
was made earlier about how important these groups are in terms of providing
basically the social fabric of the community and they are the these are
wonderful groups. All of them do great work, but we also have to take into
account MACA museum society, uh the community
association, the equestrians. So all of these groups, um there's a cricket group
that plays out in the field there. To me, they're they're they're all part of
a spectrum of use in terms of social benefit and recreation and support. um
even even in terms of um um land conservation as well. So when we look at
something like the school that we know we've just seen the full potential of
the school beginning to flower, remember the first year that we've had full
ability of the school to sorry to rent the gym and the three classrooms was
only 2025. So again there there's a there's a a
facility there. There's interest in that from again community groups, but we're
also seeing the pressure and the stresses that this is putting on staff
and also the costs as well. So to me that is part of the full spectrum
of again support that we provide to community organizations and initiatives
and you I think you've identified that Mr. Creek. I think you've said that you
know the additional figure is equivalent to 8.32 of all the taxes we collect like
all of it together. Um, so we're at 8.32. The average in the CRD was 2.25.
So we are I think that's what you said. Yeah.
» Through. Yeah. And that that includes like the pills, right? With our with the
federal government handing over, you know, almost like $1.5 million. So like
we weren't collecting the pills, right? That disappeared.
That number would, you know, increase by 35%. So you're talking over 10%. Okay.
just residential tax going after this which would be astronomical for a
district this size. >> So I I'll just hear you. I just one
final comment. Um we are going to see costs increase. We're going to see uh
continuing interest and expectation on the school. Something like the buffer
land is also an important recreational and community benefit. Um so again um
grant and a process are we putting enough into that? Um and again Miss Frri
had said uh the number of requests that we keep getting and again it's almost
every council meeting. So to me I very much support these groups. I very much
support um providing the PTE. Uh I think there is a deeper conversation that does
have to happen though. So um that's it. Thank you very much.
» Thank you Kelton. >> Oh thank you. Um
where where where to start? Um the application process um and I and thank
you for the um some background on that Mr. Freak. Um to reapply every year is
quite an honorous task because that is a very long application.
Um so this is something we would need to discuss if it's you know every two
years, five years or whatever. But the one thing I would like to see from all
the people that um receive a tax exemption is a report, an annual report
of what they've done, what's what's new, what's exciting, you know, um the
ability for council to go and visit or maybe have a tour. Like I've never been
on the Thunderbird property. Um they they gave a a a great uh presentation
recently. I know where they are. um [clears throat] and I'm familiar with
many many of these organizations. Um I'm
so so I think that is something that we need to also um have a a better
understanding. Um one of the questions are is this open to the public. Some
things are and some things aren't. Most of them are. Um others aren't. Maybe
because it's a cons conservation zone. I don't really know. Or maybe it's the the
lay of the land that I'm not sure either. um um security is not the word
but uh risk various risks um might might be some of those things. However, um the
social fabric we got a great outpouring from our um our
um what do we call these um these property owners of you know what it is
that they actually do for our community. It would cost us a lot of money to have
a lot of these services. So they are an asset. As far as the school, the school
building is also an asset. It's also uh was it ever intended to be partially
commercial and partially um
uh what's the word? Um
no no um sorry it's late. Um,
» so, >> so I'm just thinking about the dollars,
the dollars and cents. So, we've got people paying a lot more money in part
of the building, um, say the the full amount for per square footage, right?
And another part subsidized. That's we're looking for subsidized um, and yet
making a profit. So, we need to work more on that still. Um, so the school is
evolving. I mean, compared to where it was two years ago, uh, quite a bit of it
was empty. So there's a lot of things that will need to be discussed. Uh a lot
of um things will need to be evolved. I'm just very appreciative that the um
the longevity of services that the um per permissive tax exemption property
owners have given us uh as far as services has been amazing because none
of them get paid. It's all volunteer. It is uh it is what Matosen is based on as
far as rural honestly can't compare it to Souk. Souk is uh quite a business
hub. They've they're they're much bigger and and yeah, everything is quite a lot
different. But uh we do have to have more conversations about some things
especially with some of the data that you've presented here tonight. But I do
um and I've written about this in in a news
article and spoken to many of these individuals and these groups. Uh
appreciate all the services and the um the work that they do because it's they
don't they don't get paid but they provide great service to our small
community. I don't have any other questions just
suggestions for future um conversations. >> Okay. Councelor Gray.
» Can I make a motion that we extend the meeting beyond 10 pm?
» Uh, yep. Go ahead. Uh, motion to extend the meeting beyond 10 p.m. Moved by
Councelor Gray, second by Council Donaldson. All in favor? Post carried.
Go ahead. Councelor Gray, did you have any uh questions or comments for uh CFO
Creek? Yeah, just the notion sort of following
on comments of um councelor Schukan and Donaldelsson that I think changes to the
permissive tax exemption uh approach need a process with our
community rather than us meeting and making a
determination one evening. Um I'm referring to changing from from the way
things have been for a very long time. Um we've already had a robust debate
this year in terms of the community involvement and um the response was
quite strong. I think the issue still um sits with us though about the total
value of these um contributions. We heard uh from someone this evening
and we've heard previously about the value that the community gets from
government's local government support and I commend you the Victoria
Foundation report which was shared with all of us um indicating the tremendous
um value we get when we support community groups.
Um I think of another example though some
somewhat different one. It would be very difficult for the citizens of Machosen
to pull together the kind of money that's been spent by the BC Parks
Foundation to save some very large acreages.
Um they're you know protected permanently now. Um
we couldn't come up with that money but we can come up with a tax exemption for
those groups. back to my first point. Um, I think of
the Thunderbird camp where the largest beneficiary of tax exemptions. I think
it's something like 4,000 young children go through or young and maybe not so
young children going through that camp every year. Um, so it's a tremendous
benefit to to young people in our community and beyond. It's also very
difficult for the YMCA. They may have other resources but that camp I think we
heard back if if we don't have tax exemptions they have to look to other
ways of raising money and that I'm afraid may come in the form of logging
and yet that property is part of mature our tax exemption from my point of view
is part of our contribution to the sea to see green and blue belt um so I see
the value there I'm I'm going I'm I'm in favor of continuing um as we have um
that we give the uh first second and third reading this evening.
» Thank you. [clears throat] And um I'd like to thank uh Mr. Creek for not only
this uh report that provided valuable information for council, but also the
past uh the the past reports that that you've provided. Um I have a number of
comments, but I thought um I I wanted to ask questions to Mr. Creek regarding our
current financial picture as well as our picture um after 2030. And I think that
should frame our discussion. And and at our budget meetings this year, there was
quite um impassion speeches regarding um being uh um that that other
members of uh government, provincial, federal are moving into austerity uh
measures. um that we also have to be really careful with our dollars and uh
we had conversations about what I considered uh pretty small tuppence but
was voted down by this council because we were worried about about our fiscal
constraint. Um here we are giving very generously and it's not our money. We're
giving generously on behalf of the citizens of Machosen. Although we did
hear from a lot of groups that they were dissatisfied with the way the permissive
tax exemptions um conversation unfolded, I did have some comments from some
citizens saying my taxes are too much for me. I may have to move. Um, I think
that the some of these groups that have millions of dollars in their coffers and
they're asked to pay um uh 7,000 a year or uh 4,900 in terms of the BC Parks
Foundation. Um they do provide benefit and I'm not questioning the benefit that
all these groups give. They give valuable benefit and we value our
volunteers. But we also need to look at our finances
and our financial picture. And while Mr. Cus is um thinking about um his comments
regarding my questions, I want to just remind everybody that this wasn't a
sudden decision in the last year. Questions and concerns regarding the
permissive tax exemptions for nonprofit societies at the district machos was
first raised by council members at this table at the September 11th 2023
meeting. So that was we were not even in office one year and questions were were
raised that was raised by councelor Gray at that September 11th meeting and that
was in regards to the Victoria Motorcycle Club and his concerns
regarding this club receiving a permissive tax exemption and that's what
got the ball rolling. So it's incorrect to say we've been discussing this for a
year. We've been discussing the permissive tax exemptions since
September 11th, 2023. Uh, two years later, the discussions of
the permissive tax exemptions has continued. Discussions or three years
discussions for the 2026 tax year began on June 25th or sorry, June 2025 with a
report from our CFO. Uh this was again discussed at another opening meeting on
July 14th and there were no concerns raised by uh the council that was at the
table. Okay. So this was 2025. There was five members at the table. Um on
September 15th, the discussion was brought back to council. Before the item
was fully introduced, two counselors declared conflicts of interest and
recused themselves from the entire discussion. Thus there were open
discussions about permissive tax exemptions for the next year at the mid
district have been chosen as it relates to what was then the seven nonprofits.
So that's to give you factual information about how this has unfolded
since September 11th 2023. Um and then the conflict of interest uh has
complicated this. I think we should be clear and admit that the conflict of
interest uh um declarations did complicate the permissive tax
exemptions. Um regarding my comments regarding uh this uh permissive tax
exemptions, the overarching for me is our fiscal responsibility. It's not our
money, it's the taxpayers's money. And I'd like before I conclude my comments,
I'd like to turn to our CFO to give um him an opportunity to give us a brief
synopsis of our financial picture now and the comments that he had made
regarding concerns about 2030 and beyond. Thank you,
» Mayor Little. It's councelor Gray. Just before that, I' I'd like you. We should
be dealing with FRA facts as you say >> and I think um
» could you just wait, Councelor Gray? Um no, I think
» the CFO is going to speak and then you can speak afterwards. Go ahead, CFO.
» Councelor Gray, you're out of line and you're out of order. If you can just
wait for the CFO to give his synopsis. if you can wait until this.
» It's a point of order. You said something that wasn't accurate about
myself, and I think that needs to be cleared up. Um, and the the fact of the
matter is that I raised the issue of the Victoria Motorcycle Club, the
Thunderbird Camp, and all of the Tree Canopy properties. and council then
passed a policy to say that we would consider Tree Canopy or approached the
groups to ask if they're interested in that being part of their arrangements
with us. But it wasn't um I would did not speak against the motorcycle club
receiving its thing, but rather whether they would have an interest in doing
more than um commit to more than just the services they provide. Thank you.
» Yeah, thank you. You can go back to the tape of September 11, 2023 to find out
what the real comments were. My recollection was that
» maybe councelor Gray, >> my recollection is that you spoke
against the Victoria Motorcycle Club. You had grave concerns about uh whether
they should be receiving the permissive tax exemptions. we can all go back to
that council meeting of September 11th and um look at those comments. CFO
Creek, could you give your comments, please?
» Through the chair. Thank you. All right. So, for the district uh chosen right now
for the next five years, right, we got a budgeted increase for RCMP is going to
be about half a million dollars. um we're going to end up using up our
police reserve uh by the end of 2029, I believe it was, maybe 2028. Uh so full
brunt of that tax increase will be coming in. Um we're also going to be
using up our uh revenue stabilization reserve with
the estimated loss of our Mary Hillland um in 2028. Those funds are going to be
extinguished by 2030. Uh and then after that it's more of a what's the province
going to download onto municipalities again. And so once we've used up these
reserves um the tax increases are going to be fairly significant. Um especially
over over the next six years it was going to be close to double digit
increases every year. Uh and so it's uh something that the district really needs
to consider on what are we going to do is right cutting tax uh cutting
expenses, increasing revenues to pay for what's coming down the line. Uh and then
when you add on the infrastructure deficit that the uh district's facing
with roads, equipment, buildings, etc. Um anything that happens with the fire
hall, right, like our building replacement reserve is going to be gone
with that. probably a good chunk of our general capital reserve unappropriated
surplus. Um it's all going to be whittleled down quite rapidly. And then
along with the west parks and wreck uh if we stay a member of that we end up
doing whatever their master capital plan uh is predicting over the next 5 to 10
years u the reserve that we have for that is also going to gone and probably
asked for more. That requisition is going to be increasing significantly as
well uh because of the operating costs of brand new buildings. So
[clears throat] a number of impacts that are going to be played out in the next 5
to 10 years and that's the main concern that I would have long
term right this fiveyear period that we have right now between now and 2030 got
enough for capital uh projects uh that are currently planned um and we'll be
able to cover these taxes again with fairly high tax increases as a
percentage wise dollar-wise comparable to the other municipalities in the CRD.
But um as the mayor mentioned, people are feeling the pressure, right? Like
when I first got here, that's all I heard was taxes were too high. When I
looked at it, um comparably, they're really not. So, it was really based on
the people that are um land rich and cash poor, right? Where they bought in a
long time ago, have houses that are now worth a million plus, right? Average
value is 1.2. do but they're on a fixed income with a small pension that isn't
increasing at the cost of living increases. So, uh something to really
consider on how the district is going to be funding their operations going
forward. Um as councelor Donaldson mentioned, these groups provide services
that would cost us a significant amount. We see it in the school, right? The
district right now is subsidi subsidizing five different event spaces
in this district, right? The community house, community hall, Mcca, the school,
and the and the church, right? All five of those um
buildings rent out to different groups, right? None of them are full 100% of the
time. So, they're all being subsidized for partial use. And we see on the
school, right, we're losing six figures a year. And that's because we're
actually having to pay people, right? These other organizations all rely on
volunteers. And that's where that great return that
um organizations get when you give them a dollar, they can turn it into, you
know, a $1.70. That's based on them not paying anybody,
right? Unfortunately, the district has to pay their staff to maintain
operations. School is being run on the side of a couple people's desks right
now. Um and so we're not maximizing the use of that space.
But it is it is very costly and so the district does get quite a bit out of
those groups. But it has I think that good review of what's actually being
done because everything's just been piled on but no one's taken the broad
look at everything that's being done in the district and whether or not we still
need to be subsidizing these places because school was bought back in 2017.
um wasn't really a business plan in place in order to actually make the
money. It was just said, "Hey, we're going to break even. Don't worry about
it." Um that has not taken place. It's taken a lot of work just to get to the
point where now we're losing $150,000 a year. But um with the number of spaces
being rented out uh and the size of this district, it's uh something to certainly
consider as costs are just going to keep escalating, right? Car insurance goes up
every year, utilities go up every year. we just go up every year supplies
doesn't matter right and so and with the limited growth in the tax
[snorts] base here right it's been less than 1% for a quarter century right and
compared to everywhere else where it's close to 10% right Langford is doing 13%
a year right they can they can cover off things no problem um councelor Donaldson
was asking about you know how much are as a percentage, right? 1% is $30,000
for us. 1% for Victoria is a million bucks, right? So, when they wrote
[clears throat] their letter saying we're giving $100,000 to this group,
it's 0.1% of a tax increase for them, right? It's drop in the bucket, right?
For us, that's three and a half% increase [laughter]
to meet that. Uh very, very different fiscal reality that faces here. Um, and
it's something that the chosen was lucky enough um to be able to get away with in
the 80s, 90s, early 2000s when inflation wasn't that bad. You were getting a good
return on your on the savings that you did have. Um, but as I showed, I think
it was last year when we're talking about capital and infrastructure, right?
Totally switched. Inflation is way higher than what we're earning now with
the bank. Uh, so we can't just sock away $100,000 and beat inflation on any
capital project. um it's it's gone unfortunately and now what we're dealing
with with emergency replacement and that type of thing
we'll never get there with with what we're earning right now in a bank or
from our tax base growth there hope that answers our question
» yeah thank you so [clears throat] I just want to reiterate council it's not it's
nothing that we've done uh to bring this on that the forecast for 2030 has been
That's just what has happened. Um, and it's nothing that council has done.
We've had a very good uh, finance chair um, who has shephered us through the
finance meetings every year. We've been very very conservative in how we have
spent money. Um, it's exactly what uh, Mr. Creek is saying. Every cost is
increasing. The only thing it seems like is not increasing is a revenue coming
into the district. We will be at a crisis fa phase in 2030 and I started
talking about this as you will remember in early 2023 when I wanted to set up an
economic sustainability committee but that wasn't palatable by one member of
the council and we've never discussed that. We should have had this
conversation regarding sustainability at the beginning because we were told by
the province uh in particular that they will be giving out grants but they will
not be in the future and um I could see it based on what I was hearing uh from
the other mayors what we're moving towards and I knew our financial
position as I was a counselor from before regarding the premierive tax
exemptions. that we're discussing tonight. No doubt all of these group
provide tremendous value and we appreciate them. Um, but we did receive
a lot of comments from people saying these groups provide value, but we
received also other comments saying I'm worried about my taxes. I don't have
I have a very limited income. I'm worried if we go into the double digit
whether I'm going to be able to stay in my home. So the money that we're talking
about is not our money. It's the taxpayers's money and whether it is
equitable and fair for us to ask taxpayers to contribute to uh a
municipal tax exemption for some of the groups that have millions of dollars.
Um uh for instance the um BC Parks Foundation they've they do have when we
we had those figures I was very shocked how much they really do have in their
assets. Um not to say that they haven't done good work in retaining property and
providing uh conservation and environmental values. Absolutely. Um,
but the question that I ask myself always with these type of questions is,
is this good for the community? Is this good for the community at large?
Permissive tax exemptions. And um, I'm hearing concerns from our chief
financial officer that the long-term picture from it chosen does not look
well look great. And so I think we need to be very very careful with how we give
out money. Um um if we don't pass the bylaw um as it sits now, nobody gets
anything. And that will provide a hardship for for probably not BC Parks
and maybe not some of these other groups, maybe not the probably not the
Victoria Motorcycle Club. I'm just surmising. But for sure it will have
impact on the Anglican Church, um the St. Mary's Church. And I can speak to
this. It's not my church. I don't attend um their um um services uh but they
provide valuable benefit to the community at large and so I'm a big
supporter of them. Um this if we do not give them the tax exemption they are
going to be in a real crunch. We have elderly gentlemen that are providing
services at the old St. Mary's Church and they've asked for new volunteers.
you new backs, uh, new young men, young women that can help them with the
graveyard, um, upkeep upkeep. And they do that for free on behalf of the
community. And you can see at at the Spring Liies, we get people from the
mainland visiting that little church. They've asked for other younger men,
younger women to help them, and they've received no support. they continue on
continue on and quite frankly a lot of them are dying off. What are we going to
do there? Uh we can't afford to pay for a gardener for that. They've provide
that service. Um so I worry if we don't give the permissive tax exemption
particularly for the church that that we will um what I think um it was spoken at
the last meeting or the meeting before that they will be at a crisis and it's
not my church but I still don't want them to be at a crisis. We want to
support them as much as possible. Um,
I spoke in favor of the decisions that we've made previously and I still stand
by the decisions that we made. Uh, the three of us, there was council Sherry
EP, councelor Schukan and myself left at the table. I still think we made a good
decision where we aired and this is my responsibility mostly. Where we aired
was in not communicating this because we'd been talking about it. so long from
2023 to that time when we had the um September 15 2025 meeting that's two
years later it was irrelevant in our minds but for the community they some of
them had attended meetings some of them had not attended meetings they weren't
following it and it looked like it was a sudden decision it wasn't a sudden
decision it was a decision that was made over two years and it was a decision
where we did have meetings in June of 2025, July 14th and September 15th when
all members of the of the uh the council were at that meeting and then there was
uh declarations of conflicts of interest which left three of us at the table
holding a bag. And so um that that is just a fact. Um I we weren't clear in
our communications to the to the community and and that we aired on that
absolutely and we'll do better in the future. But let's face it, there was a
lot of fear-mongering going around when the council chambers uh was um filled
and some of them some of the uh comments were alternate facts. They were not
actual facts. Um as Mr. Creek has mentioned we are in a tight fiscal
situation especially after 2030. We've gone from $250,000
to 400,000 um or almost 4,000 um allowing for the
PTEES. Some municipalities as is outlined in this report have caps.
They've had caps on their their what they give in allowance for these
permissive tax exemptions like souk 1.7 of the property taxes
» because they've had this kind of a conversation
» yes what's your what was your point >> we don't have
» there's no motion on the table >> yeah there's no motion on the table I
said we were going to have a discussion before we had a a motion on the table
what was your point your point of order. What is your point?
» We should have a motion on the table to continue discussing the the issue, I
believe. >> Yeah. Let's continue having this
discussion and then we will move to something else. Um so I'll conclude by
saying that some municipalities um have a different formula. They do
have this different formula and often if you notice they decide on it at the
beginning of the term once for the four years and then it's not every year that
these organizations have to get back and it avoids the situation that we're in
now which is this is the silly season and like it or not um people also have
other motives at this time regarding campaigning um whether they're going to
be elected or not it's it's actually brilliant to bring it in at the
beginning of council at the term and then for the four years and and I would
I would suggest we do that if we're so lucky to be at this table again. Um and
uh let's see what else did I have to say uh regarding that. Um
yeah it and also we we let's face it we're in a difficult situation now with
a council of four because if we have a 22 split uh the motion will fail. Okay.
And that's just a fact with uh councelor stepping away because of of family
concerns. Um
yeah, and also the conflict of interests that were declared then not declared and
then declared again. It's was confusing to the public and we've had two members
of the public speaking out about the conflict of interests that were declared
and I think we need clarification on that. And if you declare a conflict of
interest, as councelor Dawson does every time, she declares a conflict of
interest and she states a reason. That is your responsibility. That is our
right and we need to have that conversation as well. So I will um
conclude my remarks that um what I'm asking what is good for the community at
this point and uh what is possible for us is that if you need more information
we could defer this uh to the September 21st meeting for a council uh decision.
It is getting late. We're all tired. It's 10:30. We've been here since 6. Uh,
we could defer this. And with that, um, I don't know. Uh, could I get some
guidance from staff regarding that? Did you want to speak? No. Can I get some
guidance from staff regarding the, uh, potential to defer this? I'm not trying
to defer to the decision. I'm trying to get more information for council to make
that decision. And one of the things we may want to do is because we've had
conflict of interest declarations before which would put us in a very awkward
position uh with maybe three council members or even two left at the table
which would we we couldn't make a decision. Um we need to have that
conversation. Mr. Creek could you comment on that or
or Mr. Payet?
Um through the chair you could table you could table the decision for more
information. >> Yeah. Would that be beneficial to you
council members? Councelor Shuken. >> Uh no it it wouldn't be for me. Um I
again I'm willing to um
hear more I suppose but uh nothing that I've heard
will change my view that the best thing to do at this particular juncture is to
move ahead with the pts in terms of the status quo previous
status quo but open up this discussion next year in light of the full um you
know all of the pressures that you outlined the um and also include the
groups as well. So it's it's a deeper discussion that includes the groups but
at this juncture um I I'm I'm willing to move ahead with um moving to first,
second, third reading on the PTS as presented.
» Okay, let's hear from your council colleagues. Uh council Donaldson, do you
want some more time to think or are you okay?
» No, but I do have a question through the chair to the CEO. Y
» um so if we were to do as um what my council [clears throat] colleague Mr.
you can hear is suggesting perhaps it's motion one. I'm not sure. Um
in this list there is one organization that I would [clears throat] have a
conflict of interest. Would the if we were to
motion that we accept um all groups in the PTE is that
um without [clears throat] debating which ones get and don't very similar to
what we do in a budget where there also might be a conflict of interest on a
topic or an investment of an asset or such. So my question to you is
if we do this, if we pass all eight, is it the policy
we're passing or are we or shall I recuse myself? I'm a bit confused on
that. >> Um CEO pay question.
» Yes, great question and >> upfront question. So thanks to the
counselor for that and uh would recognize that the um decision would be
based on the overall general policy and uh that you have not discussed specifics
on your personal conflict. So um that's how we would see that.
» Okay. Thank you. So it'll depend on which right
» motion is being made. So, the possibility of deferring or tableabling
this, the um CFO could restructure potentially the um the wording here in
terms of the motion and break apart the bylaw. Is that a possibility? CFO Creek
» through the chair. Correct. [clears throat] I would be able to
create two different bylaws, three different bylaws, whatever is kind of
needed. Um just won't be able to do it tonight.
» Right. And so my my comments regarding tableabling this is to give respect to
our colleagues that have uh declared a conflict of interest. That is their
right and it is their responsibility to to adhere to the rules of the
confidential uh conflict of interest guidelines. But it's it's her right to
declare that I'm trying to give space and oxygen for that to happen. And if we
subdivide them then she can she can declare a conflict of interest where she
has a real conflict of interest not on the over broad arching policy but uh
specifically if I'm not speaking out of turn uh council Donaldson we're talking
about the Victoria Motorcycle Club. >> Is that right?
» Correct. But right now we don't even have a motion on the table. So
» Right. >> Right. It's hard for me to make this
decision creating something else that's not written here.
» Sure. Sure. And that's why I'm suggesting perhaps it would be better
for us to table this, give the CFO a chance to restructure this, break apart
the bylaw um to allow for um this. Council Schulen,
» should we pass a motion >> regarding deferral?
» Deferral, but also um direction to Mr. Creek to um segment the bylaw to avoid
any conflict of interest. >> Yeah. I I I don't think we need to pass
a motion. I think he's got a clear message of what what can happen.
» Great. >> Yeah. Okay.
» Okay. >> Well, um would we would we need a um
motion to defer or we just table it? A motion to table it.
» U Mayor Little. >> Yes.
» Yes. Councor Greg, go ahead. Yeah, I had a single question and then
I'm ready to tackle the motion tonight. Um, and the question was for the C CFO,
so through the chair. Um, then the Victoria Humane Society
um last year at about this time a vote was held that granted them a 2026
premise of tax exemption. And we um because their uh their um
purpose did not meet any of council's priorities, we asked that they um pursue
a section 219 covenant to support, you know, getting a permissive tax exemption
and to give us progress by August of last year. Now, we've heard that the
Victoria Humane Society, well, they've written us and said they don't want to
consider such a thing. are they still um or which council priority are they
meeting I guess is my question in your graph you've got them as eligible and
I'm not sure how >> through the chair uh so that was that
was based on uh the council strategic priority regarding environmental and uh
care and so kind of comes down to the animals that they're taking in
ends up preventing like uh stray dogs and cats
from destroying other wildlife, right? I think we've all read about the number of
cats that have killed millions of birds out there, unfortunately. Um, and so
it's kind of on on that rain that I took it. Um, so more probably a more liberal
interpretation than what I was giving it last year. Last year I just looked at it
and said, "No, this year kind of widened it a bit to say if they
weren't taking them in, people just let their stray dogs and cats uh and
proliferate the way that they do um cause more environmental degradation
than would be preferred.
» I see. I I hadn't um I don't see it in the same light as you do because you
know we're we didn't discuss anything like that when we considered our uh
strategic priorities. >> Okay. Um I just wanted to ask a question
from uh CFO Creek. My recollection is that the Victoria Humane Society did
come for originally for the permissive tax exemption uh for the year previous,
but they didn't follow through on that and we never gave them a permissive tax
exemption. Is that correct in their first year?
Or did we? >> Through the chair, I believe like if
[clears throat] they had applied in 2024, it was it was because it was too
late when they applied for it when they got
ended up on title. So, [music] we couldn't give them one in 2024.
» Yeah. So, it wasn't that we denied them, they they just didn't they they they
weren't considered. >> Yeah.
» Yeah. Cal Gray. Okay. So, let's go back to the deferment
tableling this. Uh that's what I'm suggesting to council.
» Sorry. If we need a motion to table, I will make that motion um to be brought
back as soon as possible with the again the segmented um bylaw.
» Okay, great. So, that's moved by councelor uh Schukan, seconded by I'll
second that motion. >> Yeah. Okay. And then with that, we can
allow other uh conversations uh to be had. Perhaps uh Council Donaldson can
reach out to staff regarding uh the conflict of interest just to make sure
it's crystal clear regarding your rights and responsibilities. Council Donaldson.
» Okay. >> Before quoting voting, I had a question.
» Pardon? >> Before voting, I had a question.
» Okay. Go ahead. >> Uh through the chair to the CEO. I
wasn't clear when you responded to councelor Donaldelsson. Were you saying
that it would be fine if she voted on the motion tonight because it has so
many pieces to it and so she would not you would not consider that she had a
conflict to vote on say option one. >> Yeah. Um so counselor it's up to
counselor Donaldson to decide if she has a conflict or not and to declare
it and why. So that's her purview. The the um conversation and the dialogue has
been in general and the policies written and designed so that uh all of
the um all of the service service clubs or
whatever um they meet the the general criteria that are listed. they're all in
general terms and if they meet or don't meet. Um, so it's an overall policy and
so that's my view and that's how I would consider it. Um, but it's up to to each
counselor to decide if that if they're still in conflict or not. Um, that's it.
» Thank you. >> Yeah, I I think that's a really good
point, Councelor Gray. It is up to the individual council member uh to decide
whether or not they have a a perceived conflict of interest or an actual
conflict of interest. And as you'll know, Council Gray, you had a perceived
or you had a conflict of interest at one time and then you changed it um and said
you no longer had a conflict of interest even though um you did have a conflict
of interest regarding the uh lands title office. And so it opens up a huge can of
worms with you declaring a conflict of interest, then not declaring the
conflict of interest. And where does that leave us? So in you you have a
right you have a right to declare a conflict of interest but you have an
obligation to give us the reason the rationale as councelor Donaldson has
» consistently given you communicated to us that you had a conversation with a
lawyer that is not >> telling us what the resolution of that
conflict of interest is. That's you're telling us a communication piece. So you
you need to you need to comment regarding having a conflict of interest
and then not having a conflict of interest and then I don't know what you
you're planning on doing at this meeting whether you're planning to have a
conflict of interest or a perceived conflict of interest or no conflict of
interest. You haven't declared that although councelor Donison has raised
comments that she may declare a conflict of interest.
Mayor Little, just to to play that back, um I think you need to be be um fair
with your counselors. What happened was that I followed precisely the um the
rules of how this works. I declared a conflict of business. I explained why
that I was a trustee in the hall. I left the room. I then as per our policy and
as per the community charter consulted a lawyer. I described that to you and I
stepped off as a trustee of the Hall which I told you and and I said now I
can vote on the issues and I think there's not really any confusion there
when you follow exactly the policies in place. Um if you don't understand them I
can certainly show you the areas in the community charter and in our own um
policy book on the on these issues and how counselors are to behave and it's
not fair for you to tell me that I have a conflict of issues somehow around the
land titles office. I have no idea what you're talking. That's as as our CEO
just advised all of council and the public. It's up to the counselor
themselves to determine whether they're in conflict. You don't tell me if I'm in
conflict or not. You must >> and I apologize if you think that I'm
trying to declare asked you to conflict of interest.
» I completely understand community charter 12 or 224 227 and section 941
the requirement. I understand the community charter completely, but you
have a right to declare the conflict of interest, but you also have a
responsibility not only to us, but to the public who's watching. That's the
transparency piece. >> Councelor Shuk,
» we should move on. like it's almost [laughter] 221 and we'd be really awful
to break our longest meeting record on one of our last meetings in the middle.
» Okay, so we've got a motion on the table to defer until September 21st.
[laughter]
» Sorry, I've got allergies. Okay, I'll call the question on [laughter]
[cough] on the deferral. All in favor?
All opposed? That's deferred. Just a moment.
I'm going to have to take a break for 90 seconds.
» [snorts]
» Uh staff, are we ready to move on? >> Okay,
I apologize for that. I've got terrible allergies regarding the pollen in the
air. Okay. Um item number 12, other business.
We've got the progress report from the fireh hall technical team. Progress
report uh council or sorry CA opt.
[clears throat] Yeah. Speak speak. Um wasn't really
planning on speaking to this but I can start off.
Everybody had a chance to read the progress. We've met number of times um
and we had an opportunity to introduce the CFO and the fire chief to the
technical team and um they've been touring the facility
[clears throat] and um we have to we still have not signed a service
agreement, but we're closing in I would say on the service agreement um to make
sure we're all um properly governed and insurance is in place. I'll be bringing
that to council um once that's done.
Um and uh we look forward to their good
hard work. So questions.
Okay. Um [clears throat] do we have any uh comments from
committee members?
Thanks. >> Well, first
yeah, Council Donaldson, then councelor Shukin and Councelor Gray. Go ahead.
» Thank you very much. I really appreciate the um this report and the layout uh
specifically the guiding u principles um and the timeline and how quickly
everything has uh taken place. Each member clearly has a task to do. Um and
involving uh our staff has been obviously paramount in this and will be
going forward as well. Um I was surprised by only really one thing and
that was that we have six existing mutual aidus. Um I wasn't aware of that.
I know at this table we signed off one with uh Cwood about two years ago. I
haven't seen anything with the Langford one. It's now fully um manned at their
station, number two station. So, so that's uh interesting. I'd like to learn
a little bit more about that going forward. Um that's that's a minor detail
as to what they're doing, but it is uh significant. Um I think I've highlighted
everything here, so I'm not going to speak to all my highlights, but uh very
pleased with the uh progress report. Looking forward uh to the next one and
getting their service agreement in place, too. Thank you.
Kelsea Shuk, >> I wonder if I could ask a question of
the representatives. So, one of one of the intriguing um well, first of all,
thank you for your work and reporting. >> Mr. Smurfett, could you come to the
microphone, please? >> Sure.
» Okay. >> Um
Okay. So, thank you so much for the work in the report. Um
and again, yeah, all the back and forthing with um I understand uh I think
there's been also a meeting with the fire chief as well. So, one of the
intriguing parts of the report for me comes under the apparatus bay and it
says the team proposes to fully understand the safety related issues to
determine what options might be considered to solve these. And I think
we're talking about the decontamination, the ventilation,
uh movement around trucks, etc. Unless these can be solved, it is of no use to
investigate the structural issues. Can you reflect on that and expand on that a
little bit? >> Um, yeah, sure. Uh, when we looked at
the lists that had been compiled of previous reports, we we we tried to wrap
our hand heads around that. Um, we first tried one approach and that didn't gel
with us. So we we we structured it differently. We we saw that we really
have two big issues to grapple with and a couple of smaller ones. We put those
aside and said okay so what do we have? We have all these safety related issues
and we have structural related issues. Um there have been in the past a number
of calls to say oh well you can you can fix that with steel, you can fix it this
way, you can fix that way. that may be so um but there's no use going down that
rabbit hole if we're blocked by the safety items. Um so we said okay we got
to look at these safety items first we need to understand them. Um we had a a
great conversation a longer conversation with the chief and we understood all
those safety items and we now need to take those away and say well is is there
something one can do about that? Um, if there is, we can consider the second
part. If there isn't, it's maybe a bit of a showstopper. It's It's just where
we are. We haven't made a decision anyway at this stage.
» We have made a decision. We haven't made a decision on making a recommendation
yet.
» Mr. Smurfett, can you just repeat that in the microphone so our council
colleague can hear? We haven't made a decision on making a recommendation
to council. >> Okay.
» It's very clear to everyone, I'm sure, that we're not making any decision and
we we're not decision makers as far as what goes ahead and doesn't make. We're
just a advisory group to uh provide technical
direction if you will to the next step in this project. Right.
» Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Yep. You you can you can sit down. Thank you. I appreciate that.
[clears throat] U did you have any other questions,
councelor Shukan? >> Um no, but I I um that was the one that
stuck out for me, but I do appreciate it. Sounds like you're taking a very
methodical and objective approach um and digging
into the issues. Yeah. So, thank you. Yeah.
» Great. >> Councelor Gray.
» Yeah. I just want to say I like the methodical approach and the clarity. Um
I found it to be the most satisfactory report and was pleased to receive it and
read it and I want to thank the team for their work. Um and I look forward to the
next report. Thank you.
» Okay. Thank you. Um my comments, you know, I've I've changed my mind um quite
a few times back and forth um after reviewing our decision to engage the
technical team. Um, and with this report, I have some concerns. Um, for
instance, it seems to me that um, they're re-examining space application,
the apparatus b issues, the fleet requirements, and the workflow. This was
already done in the feasibility study provided by JDA architects. So, they're
rehashing that. Why have we got a group of volunteers who in their own um
capacity in their former jobs um and and none of these individuals have current
seals of approval for engineers? Why are we asking a group of volunteers
to give direction not to council, they're giving direction to our CEO? and
and that brings up issues to me in terms of good governance. So these meetings
are behind closed doors where council is not viewing them and the public is not
viewing what is being discussed at that meeting. So we're allowing a volunteer
group to do things that we're not allowed to do. We have to have the
public watching us. So, I don't think this is good governance and I don't
think it's good for our CEO to be directed by a group of volunteers. Yes,
they're not providing they're not asking for a fee, but they have cost the
district already. There was a week's worth of effort of the CFO or sorry this
the CFO partly, but the CEO and our legislative clerk. So, that was a week's
worth of work. that is that that is time that they didn't have for other
activities. So that has cost the district. Um the uh they're correcting
the minor uh discrepancies in a completed professional architectural
study. I don't think that's role a role for volunteers. uh proposing to expand
scope to all district buildings within 200 meters school community house EOC um
which was never part of the fireh hall original mandate uh proposing to
re-examine whether the apparatus bay can be retained uh skyline engineering
answered this not only once but twice. So these are professionals that have
already given written assessments and now volunteers who had great careers and
had were um um what's the term they were they they were engineers with their
seals of approval that they no longer hold. um we're asking them to
re-evaluate what we've already paid for professional opinions and so that brings
up concerns for me. We've also got an additional member of the team that we
didn't hear about before and plus we were never allowed to vet the team with
our our uh fireh hall steering committee that came to council. We decided who was
going to be on that committee. that that is good governance. We gave
them a terms of reference. We gave them what their scope of practice would be
and we decided who was on the committee. We didn't decide on this group. They
came forward and they added an additional member. No, Gary. Uh I'll
give you an opportunity later. Okay. >> Yeah. I I will give you an opportunity
at in a [clears throat] moment. Okay. Mr. Murph
um at the last council meeting um it uh the council stated the next steps in the
community needs assessment. Um that's the correct next step. Okay. Um what a
community needs assessment actually is it's it's a formal professional
delivered study. It's distinct from the feasibility study work and it defines
what the new facility um must accomplish from the service delivery uh in terms of
population growth, response standards, the service demand, the risk assessment.
Um it's a document that uh the grant the granting agencies uh require and in BC
it's delivered by firms like um um Firewise for instance. we heard about
them in the in the last term. Um Dave Mitchell and Associates. So a lot of
what they're um responding to has already been
completed by professionals that this council has given the authorization to
pay for those. So we've got paid consultants who have given us
professional reports that is now being reassessed by volunteers in our
committee, our community. And I don't think that's a good use of volunteers,
but also a good use of our staff time. And it's not good governance because
good governance would be allowing the fireh hall steering committee to
continue on in their work. What has happened is this technical team has
supplanted and and sort of displaced the fireh hall steering committee and meet
the the committee and they're feeling it and they've said to us why we were
appointed to this body. Why aren't we meeting to discuss this and move along
in the fireh hall debate? Why have we been disregarded and we've taken um up
this new group and they're reassessing them some things that um that have
already been accomplished and completed. We have the fire fireh hall feasibility
study completed by JDA architects. They've done fire halls throughout BC,
including Central Sanage, which was completed in 2018
by this architect. Um, which has all of the requirements that we need. It's more
grandiose, yes, but it could be scaled to our community. and JDA architects
that we contracted to give us that feasibility
study completed that central Sanich fireh hall and we should go and look at
it really it it addresses a lot of the issues that we have been grappling with
and I suggest we do that in short order within the next couple of weeks staff
and council go for for um uh a visit there um [clears throat]
to to continue the two seismic assessments done by skyline engineering
that was in 2022 2025 the existing app apparatus bay is 433% of the current
code requirement the up >> moment of order mayor mayor little
» yes >> did you have comments on the actual
topic under discussion or do you just want to cite a lot of past work you did
vote in favor of directing the co to engage the proposed volunt firehouse
technical team I recall >> yeah I did. I did. And as I explained at
the beginning, I've had reservations and I don't think this is good governance.
» So, I'm going to continue. I didn't interrupt you while you were talking.
And I would >> I would ask you to be respectful and not
interrupt me. >> And so, I'll carry on.
» I I'll carry on, Counselor Gray. >> I'll carry on. Counselor Gray. So the
hazardous material survey by the AIC um environmental 2022 there's no asbestous
for instance that doesn't need to be addressed that has already been
addressed um the six layout options developed uh and the preferred option of
option 1A the new build on the adjacent ALR site um is another example the
highle cost analysis has been completed the mutual aid reviewed has been
complete did the technical team uh just redid this and got the same answer. Now
what is that? What is the utility of that? Um they're reviewing what has
already been completed and by qualified professionals that we paid for it.
They're meeting behind closed doors and directing our CEO. As a council, to me,
that is not good governance. As vice chair of the CRD and chair of our
governance and first nations committee, I see this as not good governance. I
don't think I will not speak in favor of this. I've I've Yes, councelor Gray's
right. I did speak and I voted for it, but I've had grave reservations since.
Mr. Smurfett, I said that I would give you an opportunity. Did you wish to
speak at this time?
Thank you very much, Madame Mayor. >> Uh,
some of the comments you've made regarding the people who formed this
team, I found personally disparaging. >> Okay.
» You've received a copy of my resume. You know that I've been project manager on
many projects including most recently the sewage treatment plant and
collection facility in souk which we brought in under budget and on time.
» That's right. >> And
» but I wasn't speaking towards the project management. I was speaking to
the what what the the engineering component because on the fire at the
fireh hall steering committee we do have a structural engineer. That's what I was
pointing to. I'm not pointing to your project management, but but you're not
asked to be project managers here, Mr. Smurfett. You're you have been tasked
and you have been asked you as a little Sorry, you did ask Mr. Point of order.
» Okay, go ahead, Mr. Murph. >> I I'm sorry. I don't see any sense in me
continuing to speak because I just started trying to explain and you jumped
in and I just feel if I continue, you know, [snorts] I'm going to lose it
because I don't I don't need no we're all volunteers.
I was a professional engineer since 1974.
I cancelled my professional stamp about five years ago because I didn't want to
take any more courses to show that I was capable. The other gentlemen are that
way. We have a a deputy captain from the Sanage Fire Department on our team.
We're not our [clears throat]
work is based on what we submitted to you to this council. Uh we presented our
first report. If you and this council and the CIO feel that we're wasting our
time, then tell us and we'll we'll leave Dodge and let you continue on at the
same rate that's gone on. But uh I read through this $23.5 million proposal and
I don't see where we need to have facilities for
refugees or battered women or that in the fire hall and that I mean we're
trying to bring some reality to the situation and and if you don't want that
fine tell us to leave Dodge and we will. Thank you very much. Good evening.
» I move receipt of the report. Second.
» Uh, I didn't hear that motion. If you can repeat that.
» I move receipt of the progress report from the fireh hall technical team.
» Okay. And that was seconded by councelor Schukan. Do you wish to speak to that,
Mr. M uh councelor Greg? I think it's a fine report and I
appreciate the work being done and I'm uh would like to move on. Thank you.
» Thank you. Go ahead, Councelor Gray. Councelor Donaldson.
» No. Um I will just speak out. I don't think this is good governance. I
appreciate the work of the volunteers and I appreciate their sentiment. I
wasn't speaking disparagingly about their project management. I all I'm
saying is they've displaced the fireh hall steering committee which was good
governance. That was a committee that we all vetted and is waiting and standing
by to help. This has surpped or or pushed aside the fireh hall steering
committee and I don't think that is respectful. I wish some of them were at
this meeting. And I I do have grave concerns about
uh even though they're they're valuable that they're meeting behind closed doors
in their discussions and they're meeting with RCAO behind closed doors. As a
council, we're not seeing that. We get the report, yes, but it's that
transparency piece. The public hasn't been able to weigh in and see what
they're talking about. We haven't been able to weigh in and see what they're
talking about. So, I will vote in against receiving the report.
» Okay. >> Well, I'll call then all in favor
» that here to look at and that's the report. The public can see it. Thank
you. >> I didn't hear that but I couldn't
understand. Let's call the question. All in favor of receipt.
Councelor Shukin, Councelor Donaldson.
Anybody else? And I'm voting against it. Um, Councelor
Gray, are you voting in favor or against?
» As a mover of the motion, I'm voting in favor.
» In favor. So, that motion passes. Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Moving back to our uh council agenda.
Go ahead. Moved by councelor Shukin to adjourn.
Seconded by councel Dalton. All in favor? Post carried. Thank you.