[0:08] Okay, good evening everyone.
Welcome to the July 13, 2026 council
[0:14] meeting.
Uh council, we've got uh Council
[0:19] Donaldson, Council Schuken, myself in
the room online. We have Council
[0:25] Councelor Gray. Councelor Gray, can you
hear us?
[0:29] Yes, I can. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. So, council, before you, we
[0:34] have the agenda as amended with the
addition of the late items. Uh, is that
[0:40] all right? Yep. Moved by councelor
Schukan, seconded by councelor Donaldson
[0:46] as amended. All in favor?
Opposed?
[0:51] Seeing no opposed, that appro that is
approved unanimously. Next, we have
[0:56] presentations. Thank you very much. Um
well actually I forgot to do the
[1:02] territorial. Thank you for reminding me.
So um I've got notes here somewhere but
[1:08] I think I'll just say territorial
acknowledgement like we've done for the
[1:12] last four years. So we sit on um the
land of the s coish people um and we
[1:20] acknowledge and recognize our first
nations community uh especially the Jano
[1:25] first nations uh to our near uh west
here the patchidot far west out near
[1:33] Port Renfruit as well as the suk first
nation uh the songis and the first
[1:40] nations and we acknowledge them and we
work towards good governance with them
[1:46] and good relationships.
Okay, let's move along uh to the
[1:51] presentations. We tonight we have a
presentation a delegation from William
[1:57] Head Institution that has been planned
for quite some time. Um and um uh the
[2:03] correspondence was on there and I'd like
to welcome team warden um Tony uh BL and
[2:10] Renee Pero the assistant warden
management services to the podium.
[2:15] Welcome.
[2:20] » Yeah, you'll have to
Yeah. And turn the mic. That'd be great.
[2:25] » All right. Testing. Testing. Okay.
[2:31] » Good evening, Mayor Mayor Little.
Council members, staff, and community
[2:35] members.
My name is Anthony Baldo, and I'm the
[2:38] acting warden of Williamhead
Institution. Our substantive warden,
[2:42] Trent Mitchell, is on temporary special
assignment now, and he has asked that I
[2:46] speak on his behalf. I have the pleasure
of being joined by colleagues act acting
[2:50] deputy warden Renee Parent and assistant
warden of operations Jeff Longhurst.
[2:57] Thank you for the opportunity to speak
this evening about something that
[3:00] deserves our collective recognition and
mutual deep appreciation the strong and
[3:05] collegial relationship between
Williamhead Institution the District of
[3:09] Mosen and its surrounding communities.
Please know that while I am speaking the
[3:14] memory of Mr. Payne, who had his life
taken away in 2019, stays with me and
[3:18] with all the staff at William Head
Institution. [clears throat] Our
[3:22] thoughts continue to be with the family
and friends of Mr. Bane.
[3:27] William Head Institution sits on the
traditional territory of the Beecher Bay
[3:31] First Nation, who thoughtfully granted
us the name Shianu, land of the salmon
[3:36] people during our 50-year recognition
ceremony in 2009.
[3:41] Established in 1959,
William Head Institution, a 200 bed
[3:46] capacity minimum security facility, has
been a proud member and neighbor within
[3:52] the community of Machosan for nearly 70
years.
[3:56] Historically, correctional facilities
are often understood through the lens of
[4:00] their security mandate. While public
safety and accountability remain
[4:05] fundamental responsibilities and are top
of mind each day in the decisions made
[4:10] at William Head, they are a crucial part
of a larger picture. Within the William
[4:15] Head Institution community are dedicated
professionals, volunteers, and community
[4:21] stakeholders who work every day to
promote rehabilitation, support personal
[4:26] growth, and prepare individuals for
successful reintegration into society
[4:31] and back into our local communities.
What makes the relationship between
[4:36] William Head Institution and the
community of Machosen special is the
[4:40] understanding that public safety and
rehabilitation can only occur when the
[4:44] community and William Head Institution
is part of the same narrative and are
[4:48] striving towards the same goals.
The relationship between Williamhead,
[4:54] the residents, organizations,
businesses, and local government is
[4:58] built on mutual respect, open
communication, and a common goal of
[5:03] creating a safer and stronger community
for everyone. While recent events have
[5:08] certainly served to test the resolve of
our collective relationships, they have
[5:13] also served to strengthen them and have
shown us the importance of maintaining
[5:17] robust communication protocols and
processes.
[5:21] I know that William Head Institution
Management is looking forward to
[5:24] continuing this work with the district
and with the RCMP Superintendent
[5:28] Gillespie. I know that this work is well
underway and communications procedures
[5:34] have already strengthened between the
key stakeholders of the offices
[5:38] mentioned.
We have also seen the benefits of this
[5:42] partnership and how William Head
Institution offenders have given back to
[5:46] the immediate Machosen community through
community service escorted temporary
[5:50] absences, educational opportunities,
community initiatives, charitable
[5:56] projects and ongoing dialogue that
brings people together rather than
[6:01] keeping them apart. These connections
help to educate, clear up
[6:05] misconceptions, build trust, and remind
us that meaningful change happens when
[6:10] William Head Institution and the local
communities work side by side.
[6:16] In fact, further to the community
service escorted at temporary absence,
[6:20] as I mentioned, offenders approved for
this program have actually painted the
[6:24] exterior of this building, engaged in
the annual setup and takeown of staging
[6:30] equipment from a chosen days year after
year, repaired and painted the pavilion
[6:35] as well as the riding ring, and have
recently assisted in the cleanup of the
[6:39] St. Mary the Virgin Church Cemetery.
The men have for 20 years or more have
[6:46] also been the go-to team to clean up the
course and the broom epidemic that is in
[6:52] our community.
You'll also see them doing uh trail
[6:57] cleanup and uh remediation as well on
occasion.
[7:02] Moreover, it was our community
connections group made up of
[7:05] particularly talented offenders who
built the little library across the way
[7:10] and have built thousands of toys, sock
puppets, and items for charitable
[7:13] auctions over the years. These
activities occur daily and the reach is
[7:19] throughout the CRD and beyond. This is
community in action.
[7:24] A further testament to community in
action can be found through our
[7:27] wonderful citizens advisory committee.
The Citizen Advisory Committee or CSE as
[7:33] it's referred to plays a vital role at
William Head Institution by fostering
[7:38] transparency, accountability, and
meaningful engagement between the
[7:42] institution and the community it serves.
Through its independent volunteer
[7:47] members, the CAC provides valuable
oversight, offers constructive feedback,
[7:53] and helps ensure that the perspectives
of the public are reflected in the
[7:57] correctional environment. Their
commitment to observing operations,
[8:01] supporting rehabilitation efforts, and
promoting open dialogue contributes to a
[8:05] culture of respect, fairness, and
continuous improvement.
[8:09] The dedication and insight of the CAC
are instrumental in strengthening public
[8:14] confidence while supporting William Head
Institution's mission of safe, secure,
[8:19] and effective reintegration.
William Head is extremely fortunate to
[8:24] have such a robust CAC consisting of
members from all over the CRD
[8:29] representing a wide range of ages,
professions, and background experiences,
[8:33] including folks from right here in
Mosen.
[8:36] These volunteers have have unfettered
access to the institution and to its
[8:41] offender population, ensuring that the
important dialogue between the
[8:45] citizenry, the offenders, and staff
remain candid, relevant, and forward
[8:49] focused.
I would be remiss in not briefly
[8:52] articulating how William Head
Institution supports some of our most
[8:56] vulnerable and racialized populations,
an issue that affects communities at
[9:00] large as well as the community within
William Head Institution.
[9:05] Indigenous peoples remain significantly
over represented in the federal
[9:09] correctional system, accounting for
approximately 30% of individuals under
[9:14] CSC jurisdiction,
the Correctional Service of Canada. Uh
[9:18] despite representing only 5% of the
Canadian population, CSC recognizes that
[9:23] the disparity reflects broader systemic
inequities and committed to addressing
[9:27] it through enhanced cultural supports,
streamlined release processes, and
[9:31] targeted reintegration and employment
initiatives. These efforts have
[9:36] contributed to increased discretionary
releases for our indigenous offenders
[9:40] and reduced rates of gradual return to
federal custody within five years of
[9:45] sentence completion.
The Correctional Service of Canada also
[9:51] has developed a phase black offender
strategy to address the over
[9:55] representation of uh offenders in the
correctional system. The first phase has
[10:01] already been completed, but including
the identification of promising
[10:04] initiatives across the country, efforts
to expand successful pilot programs into
[10:09] national practices have been undertaken.
In January 2025, CSSE shared a draft of
[10:15] the strategy with the black offenders
whose feedback was generally supportive
[10:19] while ongoing consultations with
blackled community organizations.
[10:24] CSC is currently funding using uh
current funding to implement, evaluate,
[10:30] and research further initiatives to
better understand and improve outcomes
[10:34] for our black offenders. But community
is also about reciprocity engagement,
[10:40] sorry, is also about reciprocity.
In the continued spirit of meaningful
[10:45] community engagement and meeting people
where they're at culturally, the
[10:48] offenders of William Head Institution
have hosted several ethnicultural
[10:52] events, symposiums, and forums over the
past several years. In fact, William
[10:56] Head Institution for the past 10 years
has been counted on to spend nearly 70%
[11:01] of the entire region's ethnicultural
budget year-over-year.
[11:06] William has has been able to do this as
it enjoys very progressive and
[11:09] enlightened relationships with the
Intercultural Association of Victoria,
[11:14] Dr. Lisa Gunderson, and the University
of Victoria, just to name a couple.
[11:20] Community partnerships such as these are
yet another key to contributing to
[11:24] public safety. Perhaps our longest
community outreach venture can be found
[11:28] in the annual William Head on Stage
Theater Performances, or who's for
[11:32] short. I'm sure many people in the
audience are are familiar with who's for
[11:37] 45 years who's has stood as an
extraordinary example of transformation
[11:42] transformation transformation
transformative power of arts easy for me
[11:47] to say creativity and community through
its remarkable performances written by
[11:52] the offenders. The program has pro
provided a platform for personal growth,
[11:57] self-expression, and meaningful
connection, touching the lives of
[12:00] participants, audiences, volunteers, and
supporters alike. This milestone 45th
[12:07] year this fall will not celebrates not
only decades of outstanding theatrical
[12:12] theatrical productions, but also a
lasting commitment to rehabilitation,
[12:16] inclusion, and hope. The dedication,
talent, and pers perseverance of the
[12:20] offenders, community partners, and of
the supportive community CRDwide
[12:25] have created a legacy that continues to
inspire, demonstrating how the
[12:30] performing arts can foster
understanding, build confidence, and
[12:33] build bring people together. It should
be noted that who's hosts approximately
[12:38] 2,000 paying guests to see its perform
performance each year. That's 2,000
[12:44] paying guests.
The healthy relationship between
[12:48] Williamhead Institution and the Machosen
community has not been built overnight.
[12:52] It has been built through years, nearly
70 years in fact, of listening,
[12:56] cooperation, problem solving, and shared
successes. It is strengthened when
[13:01] challenges are addressed respectfully
and timely and when opportunities are
[13:06] embraced together.
This evening, I recognize a partnership
[13:10] that reflects those principles. We
celebrate the understanding that every
[13:13] person has the capacity for growth, that
public institutions can be positive
[13:18] community partners, and that a community
is strongest when it works together
[13:22] toward common goals. I'd like to thank
you for your time, for your collegiality
[13:27] and commitment to our mission, and for
allowing us to be part of your wonderful
[13:31] community of Machosen. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much. So, um, council,
[13:40] uh, did you have any comments or
questions that you wanted to address to
[13:44] either either parties, the the three,
Jeff, uh, Renee, and Tony, the acting
[13:50] warden. Uh, we'll start with council
Schukan and then move throughout uh,
[13:57] council table. Thank you.
>> Great. Um, uh, through your little, Mr.
[14:02] BLO. Yes.
>> Baldo. Sorry. Baldo. Uh, Mr. Mr. Bald,
[14:06] Miss Brown and Mr. Longhurst, thanks
very much for being here. Um, of course,
[14:10] top of mind is the whole um situation
with the escaped inmate. Um, that
[14:17] situation I think revealed to us that
there were some things that we needed to
[14:22] do and learn in terms of our emergency
communication. Um I you you probably
[14:30] can't get into depth around the response
that you corrections Canada made at at
[14:35] your your site, but I I just wonder if
you can maybe talk about what you are
[14:40] doing now to learn and to improve and
Yeah. Well, I can tell you right now
[14:45] that as I said in in my uh short
presentation that um our staff is
[14:51] actively engaged with the staff here at
uh Machosen City Hall and our emergency
[14:57] or first responders. Um Superintendent
Gillespie as well and RCMP uh local
[15:02] authorities are also engaged in um sort
of dotting eyes and crossing tees and
[15:07] sort of seeing how the communication can
be even more efficient and more
[15:11] effective. I think with any um incident
or event uh we learn from that and we'll
[15:18] continue to learn. Uh rehabilitation is
a is not a straight line. It's a
[15:23] journey. It's a it's a cross country run
as opposed to a sprint. And um we we it
[15:31] behooves us to to ensure that we learn
from past practices and make future
[15:37] practices stronger and and more
effective. and that's where we're at
[15:41] right now. So, thank you for
understanding that the the the current
[15:44] uh situation with Mr. Jensen and his
passing is under current investigation
[15:49] and I cannot comment further, but that's
sort of the lay of the land right now.
[15:55] Thank you.
>> Okay, thank you Donaldson.
[16:00] » Thank you. I had a similar um concern
about that. we've we've probably each
[16:05] one of us heard from our community and
the alarming um effects that go with
[16:10] that. I live near where Mr. Payne lives
so I appreciate the acknowledgement at
[16:15] the very beginning of your talk. Um I
also want to express my gratitude for
[16:20] the amount of work um that your staff
have done over the years and have
[16:26] evolved. Uh as well as the gentleman
crew that comes out and works within the
[16:32] community. um having um being a part of
that um with the riding ring or and
[16:39] seeing the the recent work at the at the
churchyard and the parks and trails
[16:43] you've helped out as well as camp
Bernard and some other um projects and I
[16:48] think that that's a very good program in
helping these individuals to um
[16:53] gradually get back into our community um
having visited the institution as well
[16:58] and different events the ethnic ones um
was really interesting for me and also
[17:06] transformative. I'm always learning and
I appreciate that we are working that
[17:10] you're working your you're um the
institution uh Corrections Canada is
[17:15] working with our staff to assure our
residents um that we'll have an improved
[17:21] protocol as to alerting people. Um it
was uh it was quite bumpy and people
[17:28] people were obviously alarmed. So, I
look forward to the new roll out of a
[17:34] better plan. Thank you.
>> Thank you,
[17:38] » Councelor Gray online. Do you have any
uh comments or concerns or questions?
[17:45] » Yes. Well, first thanks Mr. Baldo for
your presentation and and uh I do want
[17:50] to recognize the contributions your
inmates make in our community. So, thank
[17:54] you for that and thank you to the
inmates. Um this was I think for many
[17:59] people a frightening experience given
what had happened previously uh with a
[18:04] escaped um inmate and I I wasn't sure
under previous council I think there
[18:09] were some discussions and perhaps
decisions or at least I was had the
[18:13] impression there were about the nature
of inmates that would be um kept at
[18:17] William Head and then I think it was
yesterday I read an article in the Times
[18:21] colonist which gave quite a description
of Mr. Jensen and his time in in the in
[18:26] um Corrections Canada and it made me
feel less certain about what's going on.
[18:31] It will that be part of the discussion
going forward then? Um is the nature of
[18:36] people who are kept there? Is that part
of the issue for us to address?
[18:42] » Well, I I guess how I can respond is
that um after Mr. Payne's uh um uh his
[18:50] the taking of Mr. 's life in 2019. There
were um adjustments and and changes made
[18:58] uh and how we screen offenders and and
exactly what offender profile uh comes
[19:04] to William Hit Institution. I can I
assure you that those practices are
[19:09] still in play and as I said earlier um
in in in corrections in in a minimum
[19:18] security facility I would be uh remissed
to to say if if if I told you that there
[19:24] would be no risk. I think that everybody
would understand in human behavior um
[19:28] that there is no such thing as is no
risk and it's low risk that we subscribe
[19:34] to. So to answer your your question more
directly is we will continue to review
[19:40] closely how we screen offenders to come
to William Head Institution. Yes. And um
[19:46] in Mr. Jensen's case um as has been
reported there were a lot of factors
[19:51] that um affected Mr. Jensen's um
behavior and stay. And uh we will
[19:58] continue to revisit how uh we supported
Mr. Jensen and what we can do
[20:04] differently going forward. Thank you.
>> Thank you for those comments and and for
[20:09] the work that you're doing on that
front. The second issue I wanted to ask
[20:13] about was simply the one of
communication. I read in the paper that
[20:17] police were going doortodoor.
Otherwise, I heard from residents that
[20:22] there was something on Facebook. Um, but
is there a way that we notify residents
[20:29] when when there's a concern of an inmate
escaping? Um, or is it or is that at
[20:34] doortodoor and Facebook?
>> Um, well, I can only speak from from how
[20:39] we notify. We have a set um list of
contacts that we um contact during an an
[20:48] escape or other um similar type of
event. And I know that uh when we went
[20:55] through our uh terms of reference and
our contingency plan um we checked every
[21:02] bit of the steps along the way. Now what
I can't speak to is um what happened
[21:09] internally from from the from this level
if you will but I as I said earlier in
[21:15] my um in my presentation that we will do
whatever we can to help smooth uh and
[21:21] fill any gaps that may have been that
have were experienced uh three or four
[21:28] weeks ago.
I guess maybe what I'm curious about the
[21:34] chair is whether it's the police, the
institution or the district who's
[21:37] responsible to kind of get the
information out to residents. I'm I'm
[21:41] not aware of the protocols and that and
I and it and this was kind of um really
[21:46] uncertain. I only heard about it, you
know, through an email um and then later
[21:50] heard about Facebook. But is there a
who's who's responsible for letting
[21:54] residents know? Is that the district or
the institution or the police or all
[21:59] three?
>> Well, again, we we notify the police
[22:03] immediately and we also notify uh site
contacts in this office immediately as
[22:09] well. After that, uh in terms of direct
um public uh console or in um u
[22:16] notification, we as the site don't do
that. we have to go through our uh law
[22:23] enforcement partners and our community
partners for that information to get
[22:27] through. Uh as you can appreciate, we're
dealing with the the the emergent
[22:31] situation of a missing offender at that
time, but we also have the duty to make
[22:37] sure that what we know we uh disseminate
to our immediate community as soon as as
[22:43] practical.
[22:46] » Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um we're just going to
[22:52] turn to Bob Pad, our CEO. Go ahead, Bob.
>> Thanks for the chair.
[22:57] Um thanks for all the information. Uh
Deputy Warden, that's all good. People
[23:02] want to hear that and if it's possible
to have your comments, we could uh um
[23:08] you know, maybe make that public as well
um so people can read because not
[23:13] everybody's here tonight obviously or
listening. Um couple things. Um
[23:20] it would be interesting. I would be
interested to know uh who when you refer
[23:25] to screening
um for um inmates I guess you call them
[23:32] uh to be in Mosen like who exactly does
that and um I'm of the belief that
[23:40] somehow the local community should be
involved in that process or at least
[23:43] have some fidelity in that review
process if that's even possible. Um,
[23:51] second point is, um, today I noticed
that there was a CSC van out front.
[23:57] Maybe there was some volunteers doing
something, you know, chosen. Um, I'm I'm
[24:02] not aware of it and I find it
interesting that, you know, that there's
[24:07] inmates doing operational stuff in the
community. I have no I have no awareness
[24:13] of it. So, I think we need to work on
that uh on that relationship a little
[24:17] bit better. Thanks. Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. Anybody else there want to add
[24:25] anything towards the communication
piece?
[24:28] » Nope. Okay.
>> Um
[24:31] » yes, Steve here.
>> I haven't yet for if you if you can wait
[24:36] until I speak and then you can speak for
the second time. Um I just want to
[24:40] acknowledge uh uh all three of you here.
Um, as is mentioned in the letter, I am
[24:48] a part of the CAC. I'm an official
member of the community advisory
[24:53] committee. And the reason why I did
that, and I know that's not uh what has
[24:57] happened at the district before, but I
thought it was really important that we
[25:01] have a good communication between the
district of Mosen and William Head
[25:06] Institution because we do have u work
release uh throughout the CRD. I'm a
[25:12] member of the CRD board as vice chair. I
thought it was just really important
[25:16] that we have that communication and that
that uh you were in my uh mobile phone
[25:21] and and recognized here at the district
if there was something that was to go
[25:26] wrong. Um and I think uh the proof was
in the pudding to tell you the truth in
[25:32] this incident. This incident was very
sad and very very frightening for my
[25:36] community. Um however um we followed the
emergency protocol uh when as I
[25:43] understood it um and what we've talked
about is when an inmate is not accounted
[25:49] for uh the CSC uh notifies the RCMP.
Once that happens it becomes there's a
[25:58] second count but there's also that is
now an RCMP investigation. Um I was and
[26:05] at the same time I was at the farmers
market. I came over here um to do some
[26:10] business in my office. Almost
simultaneously I received a a text from
[26:15] the uh warden at the prison and a call
from the RCMP superintendent. So that
[26:21] was within uh 30 minutes or so and then
it proceeded from there. Um I called our
[26:28] CEO. He came in from Souk within about
15 minutes and joined me here. Um, and
[26:35] we were discussing what was the next
steps. I knew that we were going to get
[26:39] authorization from the Correctional
Services Canada on what could be said. I
[26:45] was waiting for the RCMP to give me some
notification of what were the next step.
[26:50] This was my responsibility here because
I am the the chief executive officer,
[26:56] the mayor. I'm responsible for the
health and well-being of 5,067
[27:01] citizens.
Um, and we had good communication. This
[27:06] continued on um into the night. Prior to
that, um, CEO Payet uh, said, "If you
[27:14] need me, I'll be here." Um, CEO Payet
left. I went into the community because
[27:22] I was worried that citizens that don't
have access to Facebook, don't have
[27:27] access to their phone were recreating in
the district. In particularly, I knew
[27:33] that the art pod at our municipal owned
school uh was there painting for their
[27:38] next exhibition and they wouldn't be
looking at their cell phone. So, I went
[27:42] there [snorts] to u let them know what
has happened and I didn't have a lot of
[27:47] information at that time. I went door
todo to all the businesses and everybody
[27:52] that that I could all the business
owners uh to talk about that. I also
[27:57] went out to William Head um to talk to
the RCMP officers that there. This
[28:03] continued into the night. Um, and I was
liazing back and forth with um, Trent
[28:09] Mitchell, our warden, Superintendent
Terry Terry Gillespie at the RCMP, as
[28:15] well as uh, Shano First Nations uh,
Chief Rush Chips, who is in Vancouver
[28:21] um, recovering from surgery there, as
well as the counselor, the only
[28:25] counselor that was available um, and in
uh, the band or at the band, which was
[28:31] uh, Tracy Oman. So I was uh
communicating back and forth between all
[28:36] of these five people. It was me uh that
put it on Facebook because I was trying
[28:42] to figure out what is the best way to
get this to the community. I know that
[28:45] many members of the community are on fa
Facebook not all. Uh so that was and I I
[28:52] relayed official information not
circumsp
[28:57] circumspect my opinion. It was official
um information on on how it was
[29:03] unfolding to reassure the public but to
give them as much information as
[29:08] possible that was actual um information
and factual. Um, and during the night I
[29:16] woke up every hour on the hour. I set my
my mobile um calendar because Chief
[29:22] Chips wanted to know. And so that's what
I did. The next morning, we had various
[29:28] um inquiries from the press. I knew that
the RCMP were having their own press
[29:34] release uh press conference at the RCMP.
I suspected that there was something
[29:40] going on at um still at the prison
because we could see the helicopters
[29:44] above and I had had communications from
Trent Mitchell. Um and at that point I
[29:51] decided to call a press conference here
so that the press could hear everything
[29:55] that had happened in the past not quite
24 hours but that they would all hear uh
[30:01] my statement simultaneously and they
would all hear the same message. uh that
[30:06] was typed out my message um and it was
given to all of the the press that were
[30:11] here. Additional copies were given to
their colleagues for their colleagues
[30:15] that weren't there.
And so u that's sort of a communicate
[30:20] that is exactly how it it unfolded.
There are gaps in the system that we've
[30:26] been able to identify um and uh there's
there are things that we did right and
[30:31] there are some gaps and we will do
better in the future. But I'm very very
[30:36] happy that I've spent the time over the
past four years to have those good
[30:40] communications to meet monthly with the
personnel at William Head Institution as
[30:47] well as good communications with our new
superintendent of the RCMP, Terry
[30:52] Gillespie, and his colleagues.
Okay. Any other comments or concerns?
[30:59] Okay. With that, I'll thank you.
>> Thank you.
[31:02] » Yes.
>> Thank you, counselor. And you you don't
[31:06] have to stay. Um we've got a long night
and I I imagine you don't want to stay
[31:10] for till 11. So thank you very much for
joining us.
[31:14] » Thank you. Mayor
>> Mayor Little, you'd asked if I had
[31:17] another comment and I do.
>> I'm sorry.
[31:20] » It's a C. You'd asked if I had another
question or comment and I do have one.
[31:24] » Oh, I apologize. Go ahead.
>> Yeah. Well, thank you for for reporting
[31:29] out on on your activities and I very
much appreciate that businesses were
[31:33] notified. My concern, I guess, lies with
the residents of the community and I
[31:38] think that Facebook and email just
doesn't cut it. Um, and I'm wondering if
[31:43] we might get advice from the institution
if if our role is in fact to notify
[31:47] residents rather than the police. Um
maybe in our communications plan that
[31:52] we're building now or the protocols that
we heard about a moment ago being
[31:55] revised, we might find out from the
institution or from kind of um
[32:01] corrections Canada what's done in other
communities and how do they manage it?
[32:06] Are there lessons we can get there? Is
there anything like amber alert type
[32:10] activity or phone trees? We have our our
emergency pods which kicked into action
[32:15] but but delayed. And then the other
point, so so just I think it would be
[32:19] good if if that communication plan as
it's developed came back to council so
[32:24] we could see it and share it with the
public. And then my final comment would
[32:28] be that it would be really great to know
what the messages actually were. I think
[32:33] they were lock your doors, but I'm and
and um and um but I don't know really
[32:41] what else was was out there. Um did we
talk about outuildings? be careful about
[32:46] out build out buildings or check on your
neighbors. I'm not totally sure. I
[32:50] didn't really see anything in that
regard uh out to residents. So, those
[32:55] are just my comments about if we could
have a report back to council from staff
[32:58] as they work forward on it. Thank you
very much.
[33:01] » Do you wish to comment on that?
>> I can definitely comment on the first
[33:05] part that um with uh Did you want to
come up and Okay, I'll have um Jeff come
[33:11] up. He was doing the the the hard work
here with regards to that.
[33:15] » Okay. Thank you for joining us, Mr.
Longhurst. Go ahead. Go ahead.
[33:19] » Okay. I got to lower this a little bit.
Yeah, there was a big tall guy here. Um,
[33:24] okay. Can everybody hear me? Okay. Um,
yes. So, uh, the question going back
[33:30] about, um, notification for public, I
believe that's something that we might
[33:38] be able to, uh, take a look at in the
future. Uh, I do have contacts at other
[33:43] minimum minimum sites across the
country. So, this is something that is
[33:48] sort of in my wheelhouse of uh, the side
of things. Um, so I can explore that as
[33:54] we go into the future.
Uh, was there another question that was
[33:58] attached to that?
[34:04] » So, may I the coding speaking for the
council? Great. The coding
[34:08] » the coding like lock your door or
whatever like
[34:11] » Oh, okay. What does that mean?
>> Uh, we don't do we don't do that. Um, we
[34:16] don't say lock your door. We don't do
any of that kind of stuff. So, uh, um,
[34:22] I'm not sure where that would have came
from, but, uh, it wouldn't be from a
[34:27] Correctional Service Canada site. So,
>> right. And that that makes sense to me
[34:34] because once once the prison, as I
understand, the Correctional Services
[34:39] Canada notifies the RCMP, it's no longer
correctional services jurisdiction, if
[34:45] I'm using the correct terminology. The
jurisdiction is actually RCMP. It's now
[34:50] their investigation and once and
>> yeah it's a it becomes a command center
[34:56] within the site.
>> Uh so then it's a joint force between uh
[35:00] our operations and uh the RCMP.
>> Right. So the communications regarding
[35:05] that would be an RCMP piece. Yes. Any
notification would be an RCMP piece.
[35:11] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay.
[35:15] Okay. that we forgot to mention. I did
lies with Kathleen Sutherland, our
[35:20] volunteer emergency management
coordinator uh that evening. Um and uh
[35:27] she had what had happened. She had a
resident earlier in the day respond that
[35:31] she had heard there was an incident at
William Head Institution. Um she
[35:36] immediately went to Facebook to see if
there was something on there. She saw my
[35:41] post um and saw that it was on official
uh Correctional Services Canada uh
[35:47] notification and their verbiage and she
took that as authorization that she had
[35:52] factual information that she could then
send out to all the pod leaders the the
[35:57] the pod leaders um throughout the
district. So, anybody that has signed up
[36:03] for that being in a pod and who had
access to a computer or a phone would
[36:09] have received that pod notification. And
I think that was about I've got my I
[36:14] don't have my notes with me, but it's
about 3:00 in the afternoon or or so.
[36:18] So, we've continually asked people to
sign up for those notifications if
[36:23] people don't want if they want to live
off the grid, if they if they want to be
[36:27] left alone. we have honored that and and
we don't have a a um a phone number for
[36:34] we don't have a email address for every
resident. It's if you've opted into the
[36:39] system, you would have received that
notification and I one of the council
[36:44] members here did uh say that that um uh
his wife is a pod leader and he received
[36:51] that notification at the same time and
and um so that's good that the pod
[36:57] system worked. uh in that case and many
residents were identifi were notified by
[37:02] the pod system.
Okay, any other questions?
[37:08] Okay, with that, thank you very much to
this review.
[37:20] Thank you.
[37:44] Okay, next we're going to move to public
participation.
[37:49] We have four minutes per person to a
maximum of 45 minutes. So, we'll
[37:54] conclude this session at 8:30. Um, if
you could state your name, your road,
[38:01] and we are accepting respectful
conversation this evening. Thank you.
[38:08] Good evening. Uh, first of all, I'd like
to thank members of council and the
[38:12] mayor for your service up to this point
and hope you have a good summer. Uh,
[38:18] deserve a break for a bit.
My name is Gary Smurfett.
[38:23] I'm a 40-year member of Machosen.
Live on Gilbert Drive. I'm also a member
[38:29] of the Fireh Hall technical team. I'm
here tonight with member Claus Craig and
[38:35] our Sean Shen
who's our technical support here.
[38:43] Tonight on the agenda you have our
proposal for services was accepted by
[38:47] council on May the 25th and we started
work on June the 5th with our meet and
[38:55] greet with the mayor with the the CEO
I'm sorry. [laughter]
[39:00] And uh tonight there's our progress
report for the first month and an
[39:04] updated plan action and uh we're hoping
to keep going forward on it. So I'd just
[39:11] like to uh say we're here if you have
any questions. Uh if afterwards the
[39:17] meeting if members of the public want to
grab us in the hallway, we'll be more
[39:20] than pleased to talk to them as well.
Thank you very much.
[39:24] » Thank you.
[39:37] John Ren stro
just want to make a correction mayor
[39:41] little I mean
you said that good communication hasn't
[39:46] happened before well that's just not
true we've always had good communication
[39:51] with William head I even I served on the
CAC myself for several years After that,
[39:57] we had council members that served on it
and more recently in my time, Bob
[40:02] Mitchell was a CAC member for a long
time and reported almost monthly to the
[40:08] council as to what was going on there.
And
[40:14] as to how the community got alerted,
I was immediately alerted by the RCMP
[40:21] whenever there was any problems with
William.
[40:25] I immediately referred that
initially and then just was automatic
[40:31] went to Chief Dunlop's community alert
system and that community alert system
[40:38] was very heavily subscribed by residents
of this community. So that that was the
[40:45] main way it got sent out. Also then we
contacted staff and staff uh put it on
[40:52] the website and did all sorts of other
stuff too. the community knew but
[40:56] primarily through Chief Dunlop's
community alert system instantly when
[41:01] something like that happened
and you know
[41:08] [clears throat]
[41:10] this coun previous councils we were
heavily involved with corrections Canada
[41:14] particularly with the uh the murder that
took place
[41:20] and the problem there was overrides it
was the sending warden overrides and and
[41:25] we and myself, we went right to uh some
of the top people in the Corrections
[41:31] Canada thing right across the country
and worked on that and the overrides
[41:35] were changed.
Not a lot, but they were changed and
[41:40] those are the changes that I believe
that this the assistant warden was
[41:44] referring to. But anyways,
we had very good communications. We had
[41:51] set up really positive structures where
the community could be advised.
[41:57] So
I'd appreciate it if you didn't say good
[42:02] communication has only happened now and
it never occurred before.
[42:08] » I we don't usually respond during public
participation but I will respond.
[42:13] I thought that we could have better
communication. That's why I put my name
[42:17] forward for the uh CAC. Um I wasn't
aware that you were a member of the CIC.
[42:24] Um that has never been communicated to
me. Certainly Bob Mitchell was a part of
[42:28] the CAC. Um and remember I was on
council uh last term and so I was fully
[42:35] aware what the communications were
regarding uh the last prison break and
[42:41] the murder of Mr. Payne. regarding the
overrides. Anybody in the community can
[42:48] go to the Correctional Services Canada
website and find out what was done at
[42:53] Correctional Services regarding that
incident and how they've pivoted uh
[42:58] including I wouldn't say overrides but
uh giving more authority to the warden
[43:05] at William Head in terms of who is
accepted at the prison and who is not
[43:10] accepted. No, I'm not accepting. Um,
you're this is not
[43:15] » I'm not telling it the way it was.
That's okay.
[43:20] Mayor,
>> you want to keep this council chamber
[43:23] business?
[43:26] » Enough,
>> Mr. Rance. Enough.
[43:32] » Enough. Enough.
[43:38] » I apologize to everybody. This is a very
serious debate. It's not a debate. This
[43:44] is a very serious matter. We need to
stick to the facts.
[43:49] Go to the Correctional Services Canada
and see what they've done since the last
[43:55] prison break and the murder of Martin
Payne, who was a beloved member of this
[44:01] community. Go there and find out. Okay,
please calm down in the back. If there
[44:10] are problems with this, we'll remove
everybody from the chamber.
[44:15] Please keep your comments to yourself.
Please go to the website for
[44:20] Correctional Services of Canada, what
they've done since that murder of Mr.
[44:25] Payne. They've there's more
authorization
[44:29] uh for the warden to
um accept or not accept inmates as well
[44:35] as they've done a lot of um safety
guards um regarding their counts. Go to
[44:42] the website, find out the facts rather
than rely on innuendo and and um hearsay
[44:48] information. Okay, let's move to the
next
[44:57] Patty White House, Rocky Point Road. And
I just want to express my appreciation
[45:01] for the very readable and informative
progress report from the fireh hall
[45:06] technician team.
>> Thank you.
[45:18] » Um, for the record, we heard through our
pod very quickly. I don't know the
[45:21] process it got there, but it got there
quickly.
[45:23] » I'm glad that you heard from the pod.
[laughter] If you could identify
[45:26] yourself.
>> Madame Mayor, I'm Clayton Baker, a
[45:29] resident of 5109 William Head Road. Um,
I also own in partnership with my family
[45:34] 3659 Soup Road. For clarity, I'm here in
today in respect to the soup road
[45:39] properties.
We have put forward development
[45:43] proposals in the past on this on our
property. Since we began this process,
[45:48] we have received a lot of public
feedback. As a result of this feedback
[45:51] and other information we've gathered, we
believe we have a better understanding
[45:55] of the concerns of this uh residents and
the level of support for the project
[46:00] that exists for the project. To this
end, we also want to keep the
[46:03] conversation going. This brings me to my
next point. We are in the process of
[46:08] revising our development proposal to
reflect what we've learned so far. We
[46:12] intend to bring the revised proposal to
Machosen in time for the August council
[46:17] meeting. We also believe that it will be
a benefit to get better education of
[46:21] where Mosen residents are on the
developing the Supro corridor for
[46:25] commercial and light industrial use for
things like mini storage and and others.
[46:30] Um we feel the residents are generally
supportive to expanding the tax base in
[46:36] this manner. It is my belief that this
would be a logical way to maintain the
[46:40] rural nature of chosen while at the same
time providing options for future
[46:44] councils to meet upcoming challenges
without placing the burden of the cost
[46:50] of these challenges on the residents.
As we believe this information be
[46:56] beneficial to the chosen as well as
ourselves, we are prepared to fund the
[47:00] cost of adding a question to the
election on October 17th that provides
[47:05] clarity for residents and if they see
this as a way forward. Specifically, we
[47:10] would ask residents, we would like to
ask residents if they would support
[47:14] limited expansion of commercial light
industrial zoning on soup road in
[47:17] accordance to the community plan. I want
to emphasize this is not specific to our
[47:21] thing just the general stretch not to
our development in particular with the
[47:26] time of proposal it is our intent to
make this not election issue but to make
[47:29] it more of a opportunity for the
residents to be heard um
[47:35] I suspect I don't know that there would
be a cost to adding a question like this
[47:39] to the election and we'd be willing to
bear that cost so respectfully thank you
[47:46] » okay just to uh clarify there's no
council meeting in August. There is a
[47:50] September 21st meeting.
>> Then I screwed up my research.
[47:54] » That's fine. [laughter] That's
>> okay.
[47:56] » Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[48:07] » My name is Mark Gross and I live on Mat
Lake Park Road. I'd like to comment on a
[48:13] variance request for my street. Um, I
want to become aware of this variance
[48:19] request was being tabled today on your
agenda in a letter from the district
[48:24] which arrived on Friday and I haven't
had a chance to see the complete
[48:28] variance request but I would like to
comment on it since they're considering
[48:32] it today. Um, my first point is that I'm
the neighbor that would probably be most
[48:39] impacted. is the variance request for a
secondary suite and um the variance is
[48:45] to increase the distance allowable.
So I'm probably the neighbor that would
[48:50] be most affected by this because it's
moving in the direction of my property.
[48:53] It's moving towards my property line.
I'm on the immediate west side uh of the
[48:59] uh property in question here. And um my
family's concern is that uh this
[49:05] potentially increases disturbance and
noise and voices. This summer for the
[49:10] first time in the three years that we've
lived there, we could actually hear
[49:14] personal discussions uh from their
property as they were building uh the
[49:20] home and um and so that you know they
sit on your deck in your house and you
[49:25] hear personal conversation would not be
enjoyed by anybody. So that's one
[49:29] concern by bringing it closer to us. The
second uh concern is that we were uh
[49:36] approached by a representative for the
property last fall and at the time we
[49:42] were asked to assign a supporting uh
letter uh for uh a variance request um
[49:50] to increase the distance between the
secondary suite and the and the main
[49:54] house. And my wife and I believe it was
for 8 feet or 2 meters. I might be wrong
[49:59] on that. But trying to remember back
that seemed to be what the request was
[50:04] going to be for. But what I see in the
letter of Friday that we received Friday
[50:09] is that the request is for 30 ft. It's
9.1 m.
[50:14] And um so that's quite different from
what we had signed to though I don't
[50:20] have a copy of the uh full application
so I could be wrong. The weather was 8
[50:25] ft but that's what we think. Um so we
signed in good faith because we wanted
[50:31] to welcome the neighbors. Um and this
seems to be a little bit um
[50:38] bad faith. That's the impression it
gives us. So we're unsure about that.
[50:42] Um, the third comment uh point is that
I'm not sure that uh a 61%
[50:50] increase to the bylaw is appropriate for
what Mosen wants to achieve with these
[50:56] bylaws. I I believe what it wants achie
achieve is keeping the footprint of
[51:01] construction small and that's to
contribute to the ambiance of the chosen
[51:06] of this open spaces and biodiversity and
so forth. And if this were passed then
[51:13] it seems to me it sets a precedence of
other properties even on our street but
[51:19] certainly elsewhere as they come up in
the future that such a significant uh
[51:24] variance was allowed. So those are the
the three points our concern about
[51:29] disturbance as it comes closer to us um
the issue about what had we been
[51:34] approached to agree upon and uh thirdly
whether it suits me chosen. So we
[51:40] welcome the neighbors but we think
they're overreaching perhaps within the
[51:44] machosen framework uh to achieve
something that uh is perhaps
[51:49] inappropriate. Um and that's all I want
wanted to have a chance to pass on like
[51:56] our family's comments. Thank you. Thank
you for your time.
[51:59] » Thank you.
[52:03] So the the complete package uh the
request uh and the planners report was
[52:08] at at the last council meeting that was
June 10th I believe. I could be wrong on
[52:15] that date. Uh but we can ask uh staff to
send you that that all that
[52:20] correspondence um and the link to the
website. Okay. Next
[52:31] Hi, my name is Lynn Pollock. I'm
[clears throat] not a resident Mosen, so
[52:35] I apologize for that. However, I'm here
to speak
[52:40] um on behalf of the amendment
application for 3280 Woodruff Road.
[52:48] So, my name, like I said, is Lynn
Pollock. Um, I'm the daughter of John
[52:53] and Peggy Jervis who owned the property
at 5280 Woodruff Road. My parents owned
[53:00] the property for 66 years.
In more recent years, while my mother
[53:06] was still alive, she had an agreement
with CRD to purchase a large portion of
[53:11] her property for park.
However, this was never approved. The
[53:17] property means so much to me personally.
>> Miss Miss Pollock. Yes,
[53:21] » we've got a member of council online, so
if you can just speak directly into it,
[53:26] that would be great. And I'm sorry, just
that's fine. Just direct us here. Thank
[53:30] you.
>> I'd rather not, but
[53:32] » I know. I know. [laughter]
Thank you.
[53:34] » Uh this property means so much to me
personally. After my mother passed away
[53:38] and my brother and I inherited the
property, we both realized that even if
[53:43] we bought each other out, we couldn't
afford to do the upgrades that were
[53:47] needed. nor would it be smart at our
ages of 66 and 68 to take on the
[53:53] responsibility of the property.
It was so important to the my brother
[53:58] and I that we sold this property to the
right buyer.
[54:03] We adamantly agreed after my mother
passed away that we didn't want a
[54:08] developer to purchase the property that
we wanted it to be kept intact. And as
[54:14] you can appreciate, when you're selling
a property, you really can't force
[54:18] another person to do something or not do
something.
[54:22] We were approached by the Victoria
Humane Society and a deal was made. It
[54:28] was a perfect sale for my brother and I
as we knew the property would be kept
[54:33] whole. We thought the Victoria Humane
Society has graciously allowed my
[54:39] brother and I to put a plaque on the
property in memory of our parents. It
[54:43] reads, "Loving caretakers of this
property for 66 years."
[54:51] I'm sorry. It's okay.
[54:59] Victoria Humane Society is also giving
me permission to come on the property
[55:05] whenever I want
[55:12] and I have done that. I've done that
many times. My mom subscribed to
[55:18] beautiful BC magazine. So whenever it
comes she I got to call the magazine
[55:22] there. So I've been there a lot.
I've seen the improvements
[55:29] they've done to the property. For
example, a new septic field. The old
[55:33] field was 54 years old. Another example
of improvements on the property was
[55:39] enormous amounts of cotch broom removed.
Both of these are examples of huge
[55:45] environment improvements. All
improvements I've seen personally.
[55:50] [snorts]
I write I'm did write a letter. So, I
[55:54] write the letter in support of Penny
Stone and the Victoria Humane Society
[55:59] application for a zoning change. They've
been totally environmentally respectful
[56:04] and responsible with this property. That
means much more to me than it does to
[56:11] anyone here. Please note, if they were
not being environmentally responsible or
[56:16] respectful of the property, I wouldn't I
would be the first person here to speak
[56:21] up against it.
And I'm just asking to support the
[56:26] Victoria Humane Society in their
application for zoning reszoning. Thank
[56:32] you.
>> Thank you. And thank you, Miss Pollock.
[56:35] And and on behalf of council, please
accept our condolences. Uh Peggy was uh
[56:42] admired and um a wonderful member of our
community. I had tea with her at her
[56:47] house.
She was she was generous and um in
[56:51] spirit and with her resources and uh
yeah she was a true gem of this
[56:56] community. So our condolences.
[57:01] Okay. Next
[57:12] Gary Lamb Hackmore Drive. Um I just want
to raise uh a comment regarding the tax
[57:21] exemptions being sought.
uh in that many of the groups
[57:28] um seeking the tax exemption are
registered charities and as such are
[57:34] able to provide tax deductible receipts
and individuals can then claim a tax
[57:41] deduction
uh for their contribution whereas
[57:46] increased property taxes are not tax
deducted.
[57:52] » Thank you.
[58:00] Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name
is Ivon Becker and I live on Liberty
[58:04] Drive and I'm the president of the
Machosen Hall Society. I want to thank
[58:08] staff for their report and for
recognizing the Hall Society continues
[58:13] to meet the criteria for the permissive
tax exemption. Mosen Community Hall has
[58:18] sub served the community for
generations. It provides a place for
[58:22] weddings, celebrations, community
groups, emergency support, culture
[58:26] events, and local organizations. Like
many uh nonprofits, we rely on certainty
[58:33] so we can budget responsibly, plan
maintenance, and continue serving
[58:37] residents. The traditional permissive
tax exemption framework has provided
[58:42] that certainty for many years. From the
hall society perspective, restoring that
[58:47] framework for 2027 would allow us to
focus on operating the hall rather than
[58:52] wondering how future funding decisions
may change from year to year along with
[58:56] the added volunteer time to apply for
the required grants. Whatever council
[59:00] decides about the long-term direction of
this policy in the future, we
[59:04] respectfully ask that the organizations
which clearly qualify under the current
[59:08] criteria continue to receive the
stability they need to serve the
[59:12] community. Thank you for your time and
for your consideration.
[59:15] » Thank you, Miss Becker. Did you um
identify yourself as a me a trustee? I
[59:20] didn't hear it. Sorry.
>> I'm not a trustee. I'm the president of
[59:23] the Hall Society.
>> Okay. Thank you.
[59:33] » Judy Roer, Paris Road. Good evening,
Mayor and Council. Thank you for um the
[59:38] opportunity to speak tonight. I am here
to express my strong support for
[59:42] maintaining full permissive tax
exemptions for all the organizations
[59:47] that have applied. While the report to
council frames the cost of these
[59:51] exemptions as an increase in property
taxes, it unfortunately repeats a past
[59:56] mistake. It completely fails to
calculate the immense value these
[1:00:01] organizations return to the Machosen
community. These groups provide vital
[1:00:06] services, programs, community spaces,
and environmental stewardship. The value
[1:00:12] to the municipality far exceeds the
estimated cost to taxpayers. A true
[1:00:17] costbenefit analysis is simply not
complete unless both sides of the
[1:00:22] equations are factored in. We all want
to keep taxes as low as possible, but I
[1:00:27] strongly recommend that council look to
other areas to generate revenue. For
[1:00:32] instance, pursuing light industrial
development opportunities along Souk
[1:00:36] Road would bring in substantial funding
without undermining the very
[1:00:40] organizations that serve as the
cornerstones of our community. I was
[1:00:44] actually very interested uh in what Mr.
Baker said about [clears throat] a
[1:00:48] referendum. I would before that because
I think this community does want to see
[1:00:52] some light industrial. Anyways, thank
you for your time and consideration.
[1:00:55] » Um Miss France, what road do you live
on? Sorry.
[1:00:59] » Uh um sorry, it's Miss Roer.
Paris Road.
[1:01:02] » Paris Road. Thank you.
>> Sorry, it's very hard to hear with
[1:01:06] hearing aids in this uh right where I
am. Thank you.
[1:01:19] Hello, Rachel Olsen, Typton Avenue. Good
evening, Mayor and Council. My name is
[1:01:24] Rachel Olsen. I'm the secretary of the
Victoria Motorcycle Club. I'm here in
[1:01:29] support of the club regarding our
application for the permissive tax
[1:01:32] exemption. Thank you for the opportunity
to appear. The Victoria Motorcycle Club
[1:01:37] has been in continuous operation since
1912, making us one of the oldest and
[1:01:42] largest motorcycle clubs in Canada. Our
property is one of only two sanctioned
[1:01:48] off-road vehicle sites on the South
Vancouver Island, providing safe,
[1:01:53] dedicated space for families to enjoy
sport in our region. In the past year,
[1:01:58] as noted in our application, we've
hosted the Machosen Fire Department, the
[1:02:02] search and rescue, and the Macho
Machosen scouts, providing our
[1:02:06] facilities at no cost to support their
training, and we support the fire
[1:02:11] department further through fundraising
through our annual hill climb. We've
[1:02:16] also worked directly with the Mosen Fire
Department on fireing our property work
[1:02:20] that was recently recognized in the
Machosen Muse for its role in protecting
[1:02:24] our neighbors and the surrounding
community. As stewards of this land, we
[1:02:29] take our responsibility to the
surrounding environment seriously. We
[1:02:33] are currently developing a master plan
that will guide the long-term
[1:02:36] sustainable and use of our trails. one
that balances our members passion for
[1:02:41] the sport through thoughtful land
management, habitat protection, and
[1:02:46] erosion control. Our goal is to ensure
that our property continues to serve
[1:02:50] both our community and the natural
environment around it for generations to
[1:02:55] come. I'm available to answer any
questions if you have anything about our
[1:02:59] application. Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
[1:03:11] I guess it's me. Wendy Mitchell, Woody
Beach Road, uh, I want to commend this
[1:03:18] council for a change
that you are reconsidering the PTE. It
[1:03:25] really is important. It It was just a
crazy thing to try and change that. The
[1:03:31] these organizations are
so important to our community. So, I'm
[1:03:40] really glad you're
going to revisit that last decision you
[1:03:46] made, and I hope that you
just revert to the original, which I
[1:03:53] think is option one there.
It must be an election year because
[1:03:59] you've listened to us all. We've all
come out many times and talked about
[1:04:06] this, so it's good. Thank you. I'm glad
you're looking at it again. Hope you do
[1:04:11] the right thing this time.
>> Thank you.
[1:04:20] Mr. Bennington, did you want to speak?
There's there's uh a bit of time here. I
[1:04:26] don't know if you wanted to go to the
microphone or not.
[1:04:39] I would just like to uh sorry it's Ed
Bennington from Tain Road. Uh I would
[1:04:45] just like to uh point out that the
uncertainty of going forward with annual
[1:04:51] sort of possibilities of changing stuff
is make it very difficult for these
[1:04:56] organizations.
Uh I am associated with St. St. Mary's
[1:05:00] Church which has for decades provided
the funding to look after the heritage
[1:05:06] church uh as one of their uh benefits to
the community among the many other
[1:05:13] things which have been pointed out uh by
previous speakers. So uncertainty going
[1:05:18] forward is very troublesome and uh our
survival as a church within this
[1:05:23] community is at risk depending on the
decisions that you make.
[1:05:27] » Thank you.
[1:05:36] Okay. See, you know what?
[1:05:40] Good evening. Kiara Kakawa, Perry
Crossroad, uh, speaking in support of
[1:05:44] the permissive tax exemptions. As
someone who sat at the table for a
[1:05:49] number of years and provided those tax
exemptions to most of the organizations
[1:05:52] that are on this list, they do require
stable funding. They do require the
[1:05:57] ability to know in advance what that
funding will look like so that they can
[1:06:00] look at what their programs are, what
capital projects that they might need to
[1:06:04] consider for this year or the next year
or as they're as they're doing their own
[1:06:08] financial planning. The volunteer
organizations and not for-profit
[1:06:11] organizations within Machosen, most of
whom are asking for these permissive tax
[1:06:15] exemptions, are ones that provide the
fabric of this community and what it all
[1:06:20] is that we hold dear as Machosen without
the contributions that they do that may
[1:06:25] or may not be monetary in value allows
us to be proud Chosenites and to
[1:06:31] continue having the environment that we
live in which is rural in nature but
[1:06:35] also allows us to function.
The other item that I would like to
[1:06:39] speak to is in regards to um Stacy
Charles's uh Cho First Nation canoe
[1:06:44] family partnership request. Honestly, my
suggestion would be if you've got some
[1:06:48] money left over in your grants and aids
or in your um council discretionary fund
[1:06:52] that you would consider providing them
with a donation. Uh it is one of those
[1:06:56] things where they they actually do quite
a bit of of good work and this is great
[1:06:59] for their community. I've had an
opportunity in the past to sponsor this
[1:07:04] uh personally through my business and um
they they come asking um with the best
[1:07:11] intentions at at heart in order to
provide their youth in particular the
[1:07:15] opportunity to participate in the tribal
journeys. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:07:30] Good evening. It's Ellen Fresh Perry
Crossroad. Uh speak about three things
[1:07:36] this evening. First off, the per
permissive tax exemption bylaw. I think
[1:07:41] if we take a step back to the principle
of what we're trying to do here, which
[1:07:45] is provide certainty all the way around,
including to the district, we've got
[1:07:50] four examples of requests for money on
this agenda in addition to the request
[1:07:56] for exemptions. And every meeting I've
been at where we've talked about these
[1:08:00] things, it comes down to how much money
uh is is in our budget or conversely not
[1:08:07] in our budget and having to make
decisions at every meeting as to who's
[1:08:11] going to get funded, whose proposal is
worthy or not. And somewhere there needs
[1:08:16] to be a balance in there that provides
certainty to the taxpayers of Machosen
[1:08:21] about where that bucket of money is
coming out of which might be tapped from
[1:08:27] a combination of permissive tax
exemption and then other opportunities
[1:08:31] for the grants that were just spoken
about. So I advocate a a principled
[1:08:37] approach on that. Number three,
wholeheartedly support the reasonzoning
[1:08:42] of um of the property for the SPCA. Um I
have followed that one and I just wanted
[1:08:49] to note on a technical matter on the
recommendation in it. It refers to staff
[1:08:55] seeking information from the applicant's
qualified environmental prep
[1:09:00] professional. The relationship there to
request that information is not with
[1:09:05] it's not between
municipal staff and the QEP. It rests
[1:09:10] with the applicant. So the applicant
presumably is going to be responsible
[1:09:14] for the billable hours and time that QEP
has to put in answering the questions
[1:09:20] that the district requests of them. So
I'd look at how that request is
[1:09:25] structured. Um, and then lastly, just in
terms of the fireh hall update, um, I
[1:09:32] just wanted to make those aware because
I I wasn't aware until I was doing my
[1:09:37] own research, um, that the Agricultural
Land Commission approved the non-farm
[1:09:43] use application for the future fireh
hall uh, site, presuming it's it would
[1:09:50] be here on the lands. great letter, 10
pages long, released May 12th, gives a
[1:09:57] great summary of all the past
applications
[1:10:00] for uh removal of the ALR and then
reversal and then all the many non-farm
[1:10:05] use applications and the OCP amendments
that were put in and uh continuous
[1:10:11] reaffirmation that the property is meant
to be used for uh public community
[1:10:17] development. So, it's it's a good read
and it's a publicly available letter and
[1:10:22] uh I've got a copy of it here that I'll
be sharing if those of you who are
[1:10:26] interested. Thanks so much. Thank you.
[1:10:34] Okay.
[1:10:37] Seeing no other uh comments, we'll
conclude uh public participation and
[1:10:42] move along in our agenda.
Next, uh, council, we've
[1:10:49] sorry, we've got the adoption of the
minutes. This is for the June 22nd, 2026
[1:10:57] regular council meeting.
>> Move adoption.
[1:10:59] » Moved by council Schukan, seconded by
council Donaldson. All in favor?
[1:11:04] Opposed?
Not opposed. If you're opposed, uh,
[1:11:08] councelor Gray, just, uh, scream out.
Okay. Otherwise, I will take it as in uh
[1:11:14] voting in the affirmative.
>> Uh we've got the receipt of minutes.
[1:11:18] We've got we'll take these individually.
We've got the receipt of the June 16th
[1:11:23] draft parks and trails advisory select
committee meeting.
[1:11:28] Moved by council, seconded by council
Donaldson. All in favor? Opposed?
[1:11:33] Carried. Thank you. We've got the
>> May I ask a question? I had a question
[1:11:39] to ask.
I'm wondering if the parks and trails
[1:11:43] draft master plan will come forward for
council.
[1:11:49] » I'm I'm going to ask councelor Schukan
to answer this. Uh could you answer the
[1:11:53] question?
>> Um
[1:11:56] yes. And what is interesting about um
the master plan? Two things. Um there is
[1:12:04] the potential of a s significant
revision because we're no longer ideally
[1:12:08] after tonight talking about the buffer
land as a as a potential park as a park.
[1:12:14] So there'll be some revisions around
that. Um we are also working on um some
[1:12:20] mapping as well and that that is
underway. Uh, I have received comments
[1:12:26] from council don council gray for me ask
from members of the community and we're
[1:12:30] also factoring those into a new new
draft and I'm hoping to circulate that
[1:12:34] before too long. So,
>> okay. Thank you.
[1:12:39] » Okay. Uh, that uh motion was passed.
We'll move along to June 23rd Mosen
[1:12:45] Environment Select Committee. Um, one of
you at the table go ahead
[1:12:51] move adoption.
Move moved by councelor Schukan,
[1:12:55] seconded by council Donaldson. Comments.
>> Yes, I it's Steve here. I just wanted to
[1:13:03] um mention an important um event
happened at our last meeting and that is
[1:13:08] that Bill Cave um gave notice that he
would um be stepping down from MASK.
[1:13:14] Bill's been a longtime member and um a
Machosen Friends of the Earth award
[1:13:18] winner. We really appreciated Bill's
input over these years and we'll be sure
[1:13:22] to recognize him further. Thank you.
>> Thank you. I see nodding heads at the
[1:13:27] table. Uh we we welcome his wise
guidance here. Thank you. Okay, I'll
[1:13:33] call the question then on the adoption
of the MROS environmental advisory
[1:13:38] select committee meeting of June 23rd.
Call the question. All in favor? Seeing
[1:13:43] no one oppose that move. That is
carried. Uh we Yep. I I think we may
[1:13:47] have missed the uh special planning
committee
[1:13:50] » or jumped ahead.
>> I'll I'll go back. Thank you for that.
[1:13:54] » Um for adoption the June 23rd special
community planning committee minutes. Go
[1:14:00] ahead council.
>> Proceed.
[1:14:02] » Moved by councelor Donaldson. Second
by council Donaldson.
[1:14:08] All in favor? Opposed? Hearing none
opposed. Move along to the June 25th
[1:14:14] Health and Community Advisory Select
Committee meeting minutes.
[1:14:21] » Move for receipt.
>> This is moved by council Schukan,
[1:14:24] seconded by uh councelor. Oh yeah, it is
received. Uh council Donaldson. All in
[1:14:30] favor?
No. In oppose? That carries. Okay,
[1:14:37] moving along to the mayor's update. I'll
be as brief as possible.
[1:14:42] as soon as I get this up on my screen.
[1:14:48] Okay. Um so, uh once a month, uh at a
council meeting, I give a written report
[1:14:54] regarding, uh my activities regionally
and within the district. Uh this time it
[1:15:00] was just there was there's been a lot
going on. I did it in point form and got
[1:15:05] I gave you um links to all the different
media reports um um as well as uh
[1:15:13] different um communicates for instance
by Ro University. So I'll I'll just name
[1:15:20] them. Um celebration of life for Lillian
Mariebach who died um in office. Uh she
[1:15:28] died in in May May 2nd of this year.
There was a celebration of life uh held
[1:15:34] at Royal Rose University on June 13th. I
was asked by the family of Lillian to
[1:15:40] give uh tribute to her as well as um the
celebration of life was hosted by the
[1:15:47] city of Langford. Uh the uh female
counselors uh were the
[1:15:54] MC's for the event. Mary Wagner, Colby
Harter, and Kimberly Gyrie. Uh the
[1:16:02] uh Ted Robbins, the CEO of the CRD, also
gave a tribute as well as um Lillian's
[1:16:09] daughter-in-law,
Tanya Sunshine. Uh Roy Roads has set up
[1:16:15] an entrance award and an endowment in
Lillian's honor has been established. Um
[1:16:21] the CRD will honor Lillian's name on an
annual basis. Um that was also reported
[1:16:27] in the news. Um, every year I've been
delighted to attend the Kimosen College
[1:16:33] spring comication. This year was uh dece
or sorry June 17th. Uh, this was the
[1:16:39] fourth year in a row. It was really an
extraordinary event. I I I wish all of
[1:16:44] council could have been there. Uh there
were drummers, celebration, territorial
[1:16:49] acknowledgements. Uh Sap Scott, a
respected knowledge keeper, um cultural
[1:16:54] facilitator, ceremonial dry uh drummer
from the Sartup First Nation was there.
[1:17:00] He is the son of Elder May as many of
you know her, very revered and has deep
[1:17:07] family ties to the First Nations. Um the
governor general's collegiate prawns
[1:17:12] medal was awarded to Gayang Yu. Uh this
was event was hosted by Dr. Wayne Troder
[1:17:18] the president of Kimosin College.
Uh there is a change of command. Um
[1:17:24] there was a change of command at CFBS
Wyalt. I attended the ceremony in May.
[1:17:29] The ceremony was to mark the change of
command between Samuel Patchel CD to
[1:17:35] Blair Brown OM MSC CD. Um this was at
the invitation of Kevin Whiteside, our
[1:17:43] bear base commander. Um there was uh of
course uh welcoming and blessings from
[1:17:49] Chief Jerome Thomas of Squyold uh First
Nations that was also covered in the
[1:17:54] news. I did had a lengthy conversation
with Chief Chief Jerome Thomas who I've
[1:17:59] met previously uh as a part of as vice
chair of the CRD when we've gone out.
[1:18:05] You okay? Yeah. Okay. Do you have a
cough drop? Okay. Good. Um and um
[1:18:13] anyways, that was a wonderful uh event.
Uh we did have an open house as a part
[1:18:18] of the Victoria Family Court and Youth
Justice Committee. This is a deal
[1:18:22] delegated CRD commission. I'm chair of
that committee. Um, as you've known, uh,
[1:18:28] last month I, um, shephered in our
annual 2020 2025, uh, report. This was,
[1:18:36] um, our open house to welcome back all
those service providers that provide
[1:18:42] valuable service for youth and families
in our region. It was a it was a wild
[1:18:46] success. Um, so on that note,
[clears throat] I forgot to mention that
[1:18:51] I have gone to Langford Council and to
View Royal Council to also shepherd in
[1:18:56] that report of the Victoria Family Court
and Youth Justice as is my
[1:19:01] responsibilities of of uh as chair of
that delegated CRD Commission. Um, I
[1:19:08] also attended the uh cadetses at the
CSSC
[1:19:13] SECC Beacon Hill, the 47th annual
ceremonial review. It was marvelous
[1:19:18] event um particularly because it was
attended by the cadetses themselves and
[1:19:23] their family. It was so celebratory. I
was joined by regional partners uh Doug
[1:19:30] Kobayashi
uh uh the mayor of Cowwood, the mayor of
[1:19:35] Langford uh Scott Goodmanson as well as
MP uh Jeff Gibble Kibble from um where
[1:19:42] is he the MP in Shanigan Lake area to
the Malahhat. Um it was a wonderful
[1:19:48] event seeing all of these young women
and men graduating from the cadet
[1:19:52] program with uh valuable tangible
skills.
[1:19:56] Um, I also attended, as some of you did,
the Parisian Cafe put on by our
[1:20:01] marvelous Mosen Seniors Association.
This was on June 6th. It seems to almost
[1:20:08] always rain on that event, but they were
prepared. Uh, we had music and treats.
[1:20:13] Um, the uh food was uh donated by
Petisserie Danielle, so Danielle Voki,
[1:20:20] so we thank him for that. There was
great conversations
[1:20:23] um as well as many seniors and dogs and
our MLA Dana Leinesess was able to join
[1:20:30] us for that briefly. I'm very proud to
uh recognize that we did raise the pride
[1:20:37] flag here in the district on June 25th
and thank you to all of council for
[1:20:41] joining me here. This marks the fourth
consecutive year at the district had
[1:20:46] chosen that we've raised the pride flag.
Um, our staff was there, members of the
[1:20:51] fire department, our MP, uh, Stephanie
Mlan helped raise the flag. Um, she made
[1:20:57] a special trip from Vancouver to attend
our pride, um, flag ceremony. Uh we had
[1:21:04] cake and co conversations uh members of
the William Head Institution, Pearson
[1:21:09] College, West Shore RCMP, our own fire
department, the chosen search and
[1:21:15] rescue, the art pod volunteers, some of
them, and community volunteers uh were
[1:21:20] here. We had an amazing turnout. So,
thank you for joining us. I did march in
[1:21:25] the Pride Parade yesterday. Um I
actually I wasn't marching. I was
[1:21:29] sitting in the central Sanage uh firet
truck, the big rig that they have there
[1:21:34] with Mayor uh Maya Tate from Souk. Uh we
were invited to uh ride in the
[1:21:41] firetruck. So that was something new. I
didn't have to march and it was a
[1:21:45] wonderful positive event.
Uh we had the Canada Day Festivist
[1:21:50] celebration right here in the district.
Uh we're very fortunate to have the
[1:21:55] Mosen Arts and Cultural Center
Association, MKA, that put on this this
[1:22:00] valuable and um quite um extensive
celebration festivist um celebration to
[1:22:08] honor Canada Day. It started with a
horse parade. Uh Stella French um and
[1:22:14] Anna Whitten uh started off the day. We
had music, food, portraits, a blacksmith
[1:22:19] demonstration. It was a wonderful Canada
Day celebrations and thanks to council
[1:22:24] for joining us there as well as the art
pod maka um which and at the what I'm
[1:22:32] now calling the machosen arts and
recreation uh center or collective
[1:22:38] center collaboration is called alchemy
of creating. I invite everybody to go to
[1:22:44] that gallery. It is absolutely
phenomenal right now the exhibition that
[1:22:49] they have. Um
as well the as you know the Westshore
[1:22:54] mayors have been meeting um every month
for the past four years just to increase
[1:23:00] the communications
uh that uh wasn't there in the past. uh
[1:23:05] we had all recognized that given our
shared resources, given everybody is in
[1:23:11] tight tight financial situations, all of
the Westshore municipalities are feeling
[1:23:16] it. We felt that it was important that
we meet monthly and it was so important
[1:23:21] in the beginning in early um or in late
2022 and early 2023. And I initiated
[1:23:28] these meetings because I knew we had to
have good communications because at some
[1:23:33] point we were going to have
disagreements and it's easier to have
[1:23:37] disagreements with people that you know
and people that you trust. So, we've
[1:23:41] been meeting um monthly and uh July 3
was our final meeting of the four years
[1:23:48] and I thank my regional partners Scott
Goodmanson, the city of Langford, Doug
[1:23:53] Kobayashi, city of uh city of Cowwood,
uh Sid Tobias uh from the township of
[1:24:01] Uroy, Maya Tate from the district of
Souk, uh Waterf Director Al Wickham, who
[1:24:09] am I missing? Oh, and Ken Williams uh
from the district of of um Highlands.
[1:24:16] This was so successful that we also had
Mayor Barb Dejarden from Esquyimal
[1:24:21] wanting to join our group and so she
joined as well. So, it was great
[1:24:26] communications and um great to get uh
input from other mayors um at being a
[1:24:33] new mayor at the time. Uh, additionally,
I attended the Strong Cities Network.
[1:24:38] This was hosted by Laura Peron of the
city of Victoria. All of council
[1:24:43] received that invitation. Um, and this
was an opportunity for mayors and
[1:24:47] councils within the CRD region and other
civic leaders to explore all tools and
[1:24:53] resources to respond to hate, extremism,
and polarization. Maryanne Alto, the
[1:25:00] mayor of the city of Victoria, um,
presented her community safety plan. I
[1:25:05] think everybody got a copy of that. If
not, I can get you a copy. Um, it's uh
[1:25:10] located or the link to this particular
um network uh conversation and workshop
[1:25:17] was was there, but there is uh that
report and and I can get that for you.
[1:25:23] Additionally,
um some important things. So, we got uh
[1:25:27] tea with the mayor. So, we've been
meeting uh once a month. Um, I've
[1:25:33] invited uh the community to come in and
have tea and coffee and cookies to uh
[1:25:39] talk about anything that is of mind uh
for the citizens and that has been very
[1:25:44] successful. The next one is tomorrow and
the deputy mayor and myself will be
[1:25:50] attending. I believe that is uh is that
you?
[1:25:54] » Yeah. And I know that you might have to
leave uh quite a bit early because you
[1:25:58] you've got other commitments. Uh but um
if you can be there for 15 minutes,
[1:26:03] that'd be great. Okay. And then as well
uh we've got uh this Thursday there's
[1:26:10] going to be music in the park in our
pavilion here. The band that will be
[1:26:16] playing is again Helen Davies and the
High Definition Chicks. Uh they've um
[1:26:23] they've uh played here before. It was
wildly successful for the last three
[1:26:29] years and I'm looking forward to that.
It starts at 6 PM in the pavilion. Um
[1:26:35] they will be setting up at uh 5 to 6.
We'll have some Taylor Swift playing and
[1:26:40] please bring your blankets and your
family and a picnic.
[1:26:44] Um and there's some other things that I
missed on this update, but I'll uh
[1:26:50] include in my September update. So that
concludes my mayor's update.
[1:26:58] Mayor Little,
it's councelor Ray.
[1:27:02] » Yes.
[1:27:05] » Thank you for your um article. Also,
just to mention the article in the news
[1:27:09] about the police department, the RCMP
building and the work being done on
[1:27:13] that. Will we consider a report for that
in at our September meeting?
[1:27:20] » I didn't I didn't hear. Sorry. I when
you speak my my um hearing aids sort of
[1:27:25] go off with a echo. Can you repeat that?
>> Yes. I said I wanted to add another item
[1:27:33] and to thank you for the article you
wrote in the news about the RCMP
[1:27:38] building and the concerns that we have.
And I wondered would we receive a report
[1:27:43] on that in September?
>> You won't receive a report from me but
[1:27:47] you might from staff. So, that's the
second letter that I've written or um
[1:27:52] article that I've written for Mosen News
regarding the RCMP
[1:27:57] uh the Westshore RCMP rebuild. Um we are
renters in that building and I thought
[1:28:02] it was important for the community to
hear the facts and get the links to the
[1:28:07] V Royal and the city of Langford
websites where all of the information is
[1:28:12] there. Perhaps uh CEO Payet, would you
like to comment on a report?
[1:28:16] » Yeah, sure. Through the chair. Um,
thanks for that question. Out there
[1:28:21] where wherever you are, the um we're
we're working with the Langford staff to
[1:28:26] get some information on the on the um
rental
[1:28:32] issue and once we get that information,
we can put together a report quickly. Um
[1:28:37] I'm I'm sure we'll have it in September.
Um but I'm we're waiting for information
[1:28:43] um from Langford. So
>> Okay.
[1:28:46] » Okay.
So with
[1:28:48] » thank you.
>> Okay. Uh with that um Thomas maybe you
[1:28:55] can turn down the volume uh a little
bit. Thank you.
[1:29:00] Okay. We've got business arising.
This is 7A in your council agenda.
[1:29:06] Everybody's got that. This is the June
23rd special community planning meeting
[1:29:11] zoning amendment application for 3280
Woodruff Road. Councelor Schukan.
[1:29:18] » Thank you, Mayor Little. Um, we had
extensive discussion on June 23rd and
[1:29:25] there was, you know, significant public
interest, I would say, in this
[1:29:28] application and I recognize the people
that uh wrote in at that time. Also want
[1:29:33] to recognize Miss Pollock who um also
has written in and spoken to us tonight.
[1:29:37] Um, one thing we again, we talked about
this on the 23rd. We're at a preliminary
[1:29:44] stage with this zoning amendment
application. And so what the motion that
[1:29:48] we passed at the committee level does is
it gives clear direction to a planner in
[1:29:53] how to work with the humane society and
the professionals all directed toward
[1:30:00] what I believe is going to be a very
strong conservation outcome
[1:30:04] and or at least build the pillars so we
can move on that on that road. So, and
[1:30:11] so with that, I would like to move that
council direct staff to proceed with
[1:30:16] referrals for this zoning amendment
application and that council direct
[1:30:20] staff to seek additional information
from the applicant's qualified
[1:30:24] environmental professional regarding
wildlife movement, habitat connectivity,
[1:30:29] fencing, trails, and the potential
effects of the proposed animal shelter
[1:30:33] use, including associated site
activities, structures, and future site
[1:30:38] improvements on environmentally
sensitive areas of the property,
[1:30:43] including any recommended mitigation
measures. And that council directs staff
[1:30:47] in consultation with the applicant and
legal council to explore potential
[1:30:52] options to address environmental
considerations associated with the
[1:30:55] undisturbed southerntherly portion of
the property, including the potential
[1:30:59] use of section 219 restrictive covenant,
and that staff report back to council
[1:31:05] with a draft zoning amendment bylaw for
consideration. So moved.
[1:31:10] » Okay. This is moved by councelor
Schugan.
[1:31:12] » Seconded.
>> Seconded by council Donaldson. Do you
[1:31:15] want to motivate further council? Then
I'll move to council Donaldson, then to
[1:31:20] councelor Gray, and then I'll conclude
with my comments.
[1:31:25] » Very simply, yeah. This allows our
planner um to advance the process and
[1:31:30] return to council with a substantive
package to consider again with these
[1:31:33] environmental pillars in place. I I with
respect to Miss Frri um she's probably
[1:31:39] right about the um relationship between
the applicant and the proponent sorry
[1:31:45] the staff and the proponent but there is
a relationship that our planner has with
[1:31:49] the QEP as well. So I think the motion
is is solid enough in that respect. Um
[1:31:55] again it does give the green light for
staff to discuss conservation covenants
[1:31:59] and other options with the Humane
Society. Um, and I I think it is the
[1:32:05] right thing to do. If you're looking for
a strong conservation outcome, this this
[1:32:08] is the path to take.
[1:32:13] » I'm sorry, Council Donaldson.
>> Thank you. Um yeah, I had a lot of
[1:32:20] questions uh regarding this application
initially and I think that the second
[1:32:24] paragraph here the and that council
direct staff regarding the QEP and it
[1:32:30] does list a lot of different things
here. This is 38 over 38 acres and one
[1:32:35] of the things they report out on is
having up to 100 dogs and 100 cats and
[1:32:39] you know that's a concern.
Um, so I look I'm looking forward to a
[1:32:44] much more conclusive um, report as to
what it ex exactly is is going to happen
[1:32:52] with this property, whether that's uh,
50 to 100 dogs or whatever uh, closer to
[1:32:58] the buildings or is it going to be the
whole property, that sort of thing. Uh,
[1:33:01] one of the things that keeps coming up
at the community throughout the
[1:33:05] community is the um the fact that the uh
the owners of this property
[1:33:13] uh were very resistant to put a covenant
on when they were asked about when they
[1:33:18] were inquiring about a permissive tax
exemption. This here now is asking again
[1:33:26] but only a little bit different. This is
a 219 restrictive covenant for the whole
[1:33:30] property. So I am looking forward to
what the outcome is, what uh work our
[1:33:35] planner can um put together, working
with the proponent and uh giving a much
[1:33:42] more conclusive uh report on this with
the end goal being a restrictive
[1:33:48] covenant. [snorts]
Thank you.
[1:33:52] » Okay, councelor Gray.
>> Yes. When I read the the motion again um
[1:33:59] and consider our discussion earlier at
the planning committee
[1:34:03] in some we're asking the staff to
negotiate a section 219 covenant with
[1:34:07] the u proponent
and we have a letter in other words in
[1:34:13] writing
the Victoria Humane Society said they
[1:34:16] will not consider section 219 covenant
or other measures to protect the natural
[1:34:21] world there. As a result I cannot
support this motion. I think that it is
[1:34:25] futile to have that discussion at the
moment. I would be prepared to um accept
[1:34:32] a motion that asked staff to speak with
the Humane Society
[1:34:37] to get a better report on the
environment. In other words, the second
[1:34:40] paragraph of the motion. But I see no
point in us expending valuable staff
[1:34:45] time and legal um co legal costs when
the developers already said they're not
[1:34:52] interested.
[1:34:56] Okay, thank you. Um I will I will be
supporting this application. Um if you
[1:35:04] look to the video of what was said at
that meeting, um certainly uh the uh
[1:35:11] person in charge, Miss Stone, Miss Penny
Stone was very open uh to not only
[1:35:17] having Bill Creek Watershed Protection
Society come on the land. I introduced
[1:35:23] her at the end of the meeting with uh to
Allison Leuke uh who is spearheading the
[1:35:29] Bilston uh watershed protection um
society at the moment um the group and
[1:35:37] um she was very receptive to that. I
really wanted to see that connection um
[1:35:44] as well. um she was uh a little bit more
amendable to discussing covenants. Um
[1:35:52] and I also want to beg the question with
every application, are we now going to
[1:35:59] ask for a special covenant or is it just
for this group? because if another
[1:36:05] person, another entity, another
developer decided to buy this property,
[1:36:11] they could um do whatever they want
according to the zoning. And let's not
[1:36:18] forget that the provincial government
has brought down a number of different
[1:36:23] bills and um a number of different
bills. uh bill 16 uh the transportation
[1:36:31] amendment act. Bill 43 the housing
supply act we've talked about all this
[1:36:36] bill 44 the housing statutes act um in
which enables smallcale multi-unit
[1:36:43] housing uh bill 46 development financing
as well as bill 47 the transit oriented
[1:36:52] areas. So if a um another entity was to
purchase this property, they would be
[1:36:59] able to develop it according to the
zoning. And certainly we know from the
[1:37:03] province that they're interested in
housing, they're interested in in
[1:37:08] growth. Um and that's why I stated all
these different uh bills. Um so with
[1:37:14] this property owner, um you've heard
from Peggy Jerves's daughter who came
[1:37:20] who wrote us a letter. It's included in
the package as well. She spoke very
[1:37:25] passionately at this meeting about the
intent of her mother, the the initial
[1:37:31] intent of her mother's wishes. Um
she also spoke that both her brother and
[1:37:38] her herself who inherited the property
from Miss Jervis, they were very happy
[1:37:43] with who they chose to sell the property
to and they think that that they are
[1:37:50] good stewards of the land. I think that
speaks volumes. Um she also mentioned
[1:37:56] that she's welcomed on the property at
any time. They have the Victoria Humane
[1:38:01] Society has allowed uh Miss Pollockch
and her brother to go on the property
[1:38:06] and place a plaque in memory of their
mother Peggy Jervis as well. Miss
[1:38:12] Pollock spoke at the meeting tonight and
said that if there were environmental
[1:38:17] concerns, she would be the first to
speak out and she has no concerns. And a
[1:38:23] lot of what we speak at at the table
here is trust. I have trust in Miss
[1:38:28] Pollock. I have trust in the Victoria
Humane Society to do the right thing. I
[1:38:33] know that another developer, another
sorry, another entity such as a
[1:38:38] developer could take that site and do
things to it um um and develop according
[1:38:44] to their zoning. We know that other
people in the area do have property and
[1:38:50] are are doing things that are outside
their authority of zoning such as light
[1:38:55] industrial activities when they're not
supposed to be doing that. Um I'm very
[1:39:01] confident in what the Victoria Humane
Society is doing there. It it it puzzles
[1:39:07] me why we are holding the Victoria
Humane Society to a higher account than
[1:39:12] we have other properties. and are we
going to ask for a covenant on every
[1:39:17] property? I don't think that's fair. I
will be speaking um further in favor of
[1:39:23] this, but at this moment I'll keep an
open mind, but I will vote in favor.
[1:39:29] Does anybody else have additional
comments?
[1:39:33] » Yes, I'd like to speak again.
>> Yep. We've got Councelor Gray followed
[1:39:37] by Councelor Donaldson and perhaps
councelor Shukin would like to weigh in
[1:39:41] for a second time as well. Go ahead,
councelor Gray.
[1:39:47] » I'm I guess I might say that
we're already aware that the owners of
[1:39:53] the property did not follow the riparian
regulations.
[1:39:56] So when you say you have full
confidence, I I'm sitting in the other
[1:40:01] camp because we've already seen actions
on the property that were detrimental to
[1:40:05] the environmental regulatory framework.
I think councelor Schu has emphasized
[1:40:10] we're early in the process and I'm
simply saying rather than us spending
[1:40:13] our money and time on this, let the
proponents take their time and consider
[1:40:18] whether or not they want to come forward
um and um protect some of the property.
[1:40:26] when you speak and say that you don't
think the covenant's um appropriate,
[1:40:31] well, that would mean voting against the
motion because in this instance, Mayor
[1:40:35] Little, what the motion is is to work
towards getting section 219 covenant.
[1:40:41] We're not talking about other
properties. We're talking about this
[1:40:44] property. And we're doing that because
the planner has recommended it to
[1:40:48] council and and we passed it a planning
committee. So, you supported a covenant
[1:40:52] then. Are you not supporting a covenant
at this point?
[1:40:57] Is that a question to me or to staff?
>> A question to Mayor Little.
[1:41:03] » Yeah, that's me. Um, so the the covenant
I'm I'm what I'm saying is we need to
[1:41:09] follow due process. We need to follow
due process and and what is outlined by
[1:41:15] our very experienced planner. That's
what that's what I'm um suggesting. I'm
[1:41:22] I'm questioning the wisdom of having to
have uh covenants on all different
[1:41:29] properties. I'm just wondering why this
it's I think it's a valid question. Why
[1:41:35] is this particular property
being subject to to a section 219
[1:41:40] restrictive covenant when other
properties haven't been? I'm just
[1:41:44] begging that question. Um the planner
has suggested it with you at that
[1:41:49] meeting. You will you will been have
been able to hear that Penny Stone is
[1:41:54] more open to that and she said she will
consider that. I trust her on her work
[1:42:00] regarding the um uh what did you term um
problems with the uh riparian um she
[1:42:11] mentioned that she didn't realize what
what that she was breaking the rules
[1:42:17] once once they were made aware that they
were doing something that they shouldn't
[1:42:22] do. they stopped and they've they've got
valid um environmental professionals um
[1:42:29] giving advice on this with that. I have
trust in them. I'm sorry that you don't,
[1:42:34] but I I do have trust.
Uh councelor Schukan. Oh, sorry. I'm
[1:42:40] sorry, Council Donaldson.
>> Thank you. Um, one of the outstanding
[1:42:45] concerns that I have, not just of the
use of property, but this is an upland
[1:42:49] zone
>> and heavily treed, um, this is in the
[1:42:54] Sucro corridor, um, adjacent to the
buffer land section 25 and Neil Road.
[1:43:01] And um being in the uplands, the one
thing that I've learned from the last
[1:43:06] report um in seeing some photographs was
how much of the headwaters are um in the
[1:43:13] uplands. And so protecting that is is
quite valuable when we think about the
[1:43:19] headarters of the Bilston goes all the
way through our community. Um there are
[1:43:24] a couple of farms that do have licenses
on that on the water from that. Um and
[1:43:30] so you know keeping the water pure and
and clean and flowing. Um this is also
[1:43:37] uh the value of having a restrictive
covenant in that area. Um and there are
[1:43:42] several properties that would have um
subsidiary uh waters that go into the
[1:43:48] Bilson. So the wershed is uh a valuable
asset to our community and runs straight
[1:43:53] through it. So again protecting that is
is superior in my opinion.
[1:43:59] Yeah, absolutely. Councelor Schuken.
>> Yeah.
[1:44:03] um in terms of the humane society's um
you know actions around their fencing
[1:44:10] and the stream crossings uh just to pull
a quote from the planners or the sorry
[1:44:14] the report from the QEP says the QEP
reports that required remediation of
[1:44:18] previous unremitted unpermitted stream
crossings has now been completed in
[1:44:23] accordance with the water sustainability
act and no further remediation of stream
[1:44:27] crossings is required. So, um I I
thought Council Gray's comments at the
[1:44:34] other day were were actually really
aggressive in terms of terming things
[1:44:39] illegal. Um uh and and I'm glad the the
planner or Miss Johnson didn't take the
[1:44:45] bait and u threw it back to the report
itself. Um, the one thing I would just
[1:44:50] say though is if anybody at this table
wants to be that pointed and point out
[1:44:57] um, unauthorized uses on sites that come
before us for reasonzoning, say, that
[1:45:03] they're consistent and that they they
take a look at maybe unauthorized uses
[1:45:08] that might be in place on some of those
other things. So, I hope that is a
[1:45:11] precedent that that might be set
especially for certain individuals at
[1:45:15] this table. And again, I ask folks to
look around if they want to have a an
[1:45:21] understanding of the impacts going on in
that area. Look around, look broadly at
[1:45:26] some of the neighbors to this particular
property.
[1:45:29] » So, I'll leave it at that. But the one
thing I I take your point, Mayor Little,
[1:45:33] why the Humane Society is being target
like I I don't know the emphasis on a
[1:45:40] covenant for this particular um property
owner. Um, we have a number of um,
[1:45:46] permissive tax exemption, sorry,
organizations looking for permissive tax
[1:45:50] exemptions coming up in the next
discussion. I'm going to support I'll
[1:45:53] tip my hat right now. I'm going to
support the status quo. But I do want to
[1:45:57] point out a few things. The Victoria
Motorcycle Club, there's no covenant on
[1:46:01] that property as I understand it. Um,
um, the Chosen Hall Society, I'm betting
[1:46:06] there isn't a protective covenant there.
Uh, the YMCA, there is no protective
[1:46:10] covenant there. the Boys and Girls Club,
there is no protective covenant with
[1:46:14] that organization. Um BC Parks
Foundation on Hummingbird Hill, as I
[1:46:19] understand it, there was no protective
covenant there either. So I I'm a little
[1:46:23] confused as to why the Humane Society is
being singled out, but again, they've
[1:46:28] indicated I saw them there um indicated
a willingness to enter some discussions.
[1:46:33] So yeah, I'll leave it at that.
>> Yeah, good point. I think it's uh
[1:46:37] council Donaldson has point out in the
past about we should treat everybody
[1:46:41] fairly and evenly and perhaps if this is
the route we're going to go down um
[1:46:47] perhaps with the Victorian Motorcycle
Club, with the um Hall Society, Boys and
[1:46:53] Girls Club, all of them, maybe they
should all have protective covenants on
[1:46:57] their properties. Um that's probably not
practical and it might be expensive. Uh
[1:47:04] but I think that needs to be considered
if we hold one group and one property uh
[1:47:10] to this. Um, and I take your point,
council, and look around and um that
[1:47:15] area um and uh see uh what is happening
on some of the properties in in the area
[1:47:24] um in terms of u not abiding by
provincial legislations um cutting trees
[1:47:30] that they shouldn't have uh destroying
the canopy. Um so I I take your point
[1:47:36] and thank you for that.
Okay, I'm gonna call the question. Oh,
[1:47:41] go ahead.
>> Yeah, for for a third time. Go ahead.
[1:47:44] » I just
>> Yeah. Um, well, I think some said that
[1:47:49] it it's worth um just covering a few
points. One point is that the reason why
[1:47:55] the planner is suggesting a covenant
here, it's quite well detailed in her
[1:48:00] report to us is to uphold our official
community plan.
[1:48:04] We're we're being asked for an amendment
to zoning and that has led us and led
[1:48:10] the planner to say now when that happens
now's your time to step in and follow
[1:48:15] the plan. It's a sensitive ecosystem.
Make a move to protect it. So that's the
[1:48:19] rationale. I'm sorry that people have
missed it. On the second the second
[1:48:23] point in relation to permissive tax
exemptions, you will all recall that
[1:48:27] last summer we passed a brand new policy
such that we would uh on the advice of
[1:48:33] me ask seek uh covenants on properties
that have significant forest canopy in
[1:48:40] time. We would have be we would have
been doing that this year except that
[1:48:45] council abolished the permissive tax
exemptions for 2026. So it's already on
[1:48:50] the books that we are going to pursue
that policy not to force people but to
[1:48:54] enter a discussion with them. But all
those other organizations that were
[1:48:58] named none of them are seeking
amendments to their zoning. So that's
[1:49:02] why this is special. It's not targeting
them. It's in response to an application
[1:49:06] for a zoning amendment and it's a simple
responsibility of the local government
[1:49:10] to follow its OCP and take that
opportunity to move us forward. Thank
[1:49:15] you.
>> Thank you. Since I've given you the
[1:49:17] third opportunity, I'll also give
everybody else the the third opportunity
[1:49:21] to speak. Does anybody else at the table
wish to speak
[1:49:26] um provide more commentary? Go ahead,
Councelor Donaldson.
[1:49:30] » I just want to uh uh clarify
uh and hopefully everybody in the room
[1:49:35] has followed this. Um we're talking
about a zoning amendment, not a PTE.
[1:49:41] that was PTE was a previous discussion
that is not to be mixed up with this.
[1:49:48] » I think that's that's very important. Um
here um we'll discuss the permissive tax
[1:49:54] exemptions later this evening. We're
discussing this uh zoning application.
[1:50:00] Now, uh um what I want to point out is
uh even prior uh to this zoning
[1:50:08] amendment application when we were
discussing the permissive tax exemptions
[1:50:14] and it goes back to 2023, September
11th, 2023.
[1:50:20] And uh when Penny Stone came to council
to talk about permissive tax exemptions,
[1:50:26] it was at that time that Penny Stone was
approached by members of our community
[1:50:32] asking for uh a covenant. And at that
time she was asked to give up part of
[1:50:39] her property in exchange for um I don't
know I I don't know what in exchange
[1:50:46] for. Um that was not council. It was not
the mayor. it was not our staff and and
[1:50:52] I think um I don't think I know that
that set the tone of the relationship
[1:50:59] between the district of Machosen and uh
Penny Stone rightly or wrongly. Uh I
[1:51:05] think uh that and she acknowledged this
when she spoke. She got her backup a
[1:51:10] little bit. And I would too if I had
just bought a property and I had
[1:51:15] outsiders coming in and telling me that
I needed to put a restrictive covenant
[1:51:19] on my property and that I needed to give
up part of the property that I was I had
[1:51:26] just purchased from donor um
contributions. And and so what I spoke
[1:51:31] about quite passionately the last
meeting was I want to see a reset in the
[1:51:37] communications between the district
between the residents and this property.
[1:51:42] I think they are valued members of our
community. I welcome them here. There
[1:51:47] could be far worse you activities on
that property.
[1:51:53] I will vote in favor of this motion.
[1:51:57] Okay. I'm going to call the question on
what has been um put forward. Uh the
[1:52:03] motion is there uh on screen and it is
in your business arising 7A.
[1:52:12] I'll call the question. All in favor?
Those opposed?
[1:52:18] » Opposed?
>> Opposed by councelor Grave. That motion
[1:52:21] passes. Thank you everyone. That was a
good discussion. Moving along to reports
[1:52:26] for action.
[1:52:34] Reports for action. We have a request
for a development development variance
[1:52:39] permit 1010 Mat Lake Park Drive. We have
a report here. And um who's going to
[1:52:48] take that? Councelor Schukan.
>> Thank you very much, Mayor Little. Um
[1:52:52] again the variance request is for a
setback of 24 meters just slightly over
[1:52:57] that from 50 meters which is in our
bylaw. Uh when all and and that is the
[1:53:04] only thing there the building is the
size of the um secondary suite as
[1:53:08] required by the um land use bylaw. Um I
will so from my perspective um the
[1:53:18] proposed variance does minimize sight
disturbances and helps maintain the
[1:53:22] natural character of the property
especially with the shared driveway and
[1:53:26] with the one variance just being the
setback um from the principal residence.
[1:53:32] We're we're not considering everything
else. the residences or sorry the
[1:53:36] setbacks from the side and front of the
yard are well within our um our
[1:53:42] allowances. Now I do take Mr. Gross's um
comments um but into consideration but
[1:53:50] we do take those into consideration. We
look at what the potential impacts are
[1:53:54] to biodiversity elements and consistency
with community values and also um
[1:54:00] especially the setbacks the required
setbacks. So with that, I would like to
[1:54:05] move that um council direct staff to
issue development variance permit
[1:54:10] application 2602
further recommendation. So moved.
[1:54:14] » Moved by councelor Shukin, seconded by
council Donaldson. Do you wish to
[1:54:17] motivate further further?
[1:54:22] » Okay. No comments from councelor Shukin.
Councelter Donaldson,
[1:54:27] » I just want to comment that uh we did do
a site visit
[1:54:30] » uh to see where uh the the lay of the
land was. There are no trees or
[1:54:36] shrubbery in the way. It's uh
interesting that it isn't upland zone
[1:54:39] because it was uh fairly
level. Yeah.
[1:54:43] » Um the concern in the report was that
there was a rock in the middle of the
[1:54:47] driveway. I didn't see that, but that
again isn't a concern. They put the
[1:54:52] driveway where they needed to. uh based
on the bedrock underneath and the um and
[1:54:58] cited the fact that the uh secondary
dwelling on the opposite side of that
[1:55:04] drive shared driveway to the house. Um
anything closer uh there's quite a a
[1:55:12] deviation into the um of the land that
goes into say the basement area. the
[1:55:19] frontal part or I guess the Maton Lake
side of it is more filled. So building
[1:55:24] on fill isn't as um secure I suppose
than where they sited. So I do
[1:55:29] appreciate the site that they have. I um
empathize with the neighbor with the
[1:55:35] sounds traveling because there has been
nobody on this property ever. There's no
[1:55:40] dwellings on this property. It's been
vacant for no
[1:55:45] forever I guess. Yeah. So, so that will
be certainly an adjustment. Certainly
[1:55:49] something um that maybe the neighbors
can um work through as well. So, I I do
[1:55:55] understand the concerns there.
>> Okay. Councelor Gray, you weren't able
[1:56:01] to attend the site visit. Um but did you
have any comments regarding this?
[1:56:08] » Yes, I do.
We've looked at quite a few variances um
[1:56:13] for this sort of thing and this is the
first time we've heard from a neighbor
[1:56:17] opposing the application for variance on
the basis of the noise and disturbance.
[1:56:23] Um each time we've looked at the
variances
[1:56:27] I've considered I think council
considered two questions. One was would
[1:56:32] it disturb the neighbors
um as much or more than the principal
[1:56:37] residents? And two was what about the
driveway? A single driveway with no
[1:56:43] opportunity for a new driveway which
might um
[1:56:48] encourage subdivision interest in future
times. So of the two tests, this one
[1:56:53] seems to fail on the first test.
um the disturbance of the neighbors and
[1:56:59] I'm also concerned with the issue of
Mr. Gross when he spoke said he re
[1:57:06] received the referral on Friday before
to before the meeting today on Monday.
[1:57:10] So, I'm wondering about the other
neighbors and I'm curious if we and
[1:57:15] maybe I'm pitch to the planning chair, M
councelor Schukan, should we be
[1:57:20] deferring this until we hear concretely
from all of the neighbors who have been
[1:57:24] sent referrals,
[1:57:29] » councelor Shuken, um we can also ask
staff um uh Mr. Payet, as I understand
[1:57:35] it, um we did receive replies from um
anybody else that received the letter,
[1:57:44] » Miss uh Miss Barnes or CEO Payet.
>> Um I don't really have a response other
[1:57:51] than um
if there's if there's a date on the
[1:57:55] letter to respond by maybe. I don't
remember seeing the letter, but we could
[1:58:00] look that up.
>> Okay. quickly.
[1:58:02] » This this was a letter that was sent to
the the neighbors regarding the
[1:58:05] application. Go ahead, councelor
>> Shugan. Um I'm I'm not preferred sorry
[1:58:09] I'm not prepared to um wait. I mean if
the vote at the table is is such um we
[1:58:16] can the one thing I would just say
whether it's 15 m 24 meters the you know
[1:58:23] the impact of sound is unlikely to
change
[1:58:26] » based on you know the secondary Sweden
and the difference of um what is it 9
[1:58:31] meters so again as councelor Donaldson
says there's been no home there
[1:58:36] » ever so that is a change I I and we all
sorry there are many of us in the
[1:58:41] community that go through this. Uh you
live next to a site that isn't developed
[1:58:45] and all of a sudden you've got uh great
neighbors next to you and their lovely
[1:58:49] dog and children and all that and you
hear noise you never did before. So,
[1:58:52] » Right. Right. And actually, since we've
got the applicant here and the neighbor
[1:58:57] at this meeting, perhaps we can after
the council meeting introduce them both
[1:59:01] so that they have a starting basis for a
good neighbor uh to neighbor
[1:59:07] communication. um because many of the
issues that we deal with or or that
[1:59:11] staff deals with are neighborto-
neighbor issue and it costs us a lot of
[1:59:15] money and by law enforcement. So uh
let's um I hopefully these two parties
[1:59:21] can um connect and talk about their
mutual uh differences and uh their the
[1:59:28] places where they meet on.
Okay.
[1:59:33] And that's also about the the site
visit. That is the beauty of us going to
[1:59:37] the site and seeing for ourselves. Um
seeing uh plans on a map are very
[1:59:43] difficult uh to make a decision and
that's why we insist upon every time
[1:59:48] going for a site visit and that's the
beauty of seeing that that property
[1:59:52] because it's not a a large uh canopied
property. It's pretty wide open and it
[1:59:57] is in the definition of the uplands.
It's sort of rocky outcrops. uh it's not
[2:00:03] necessarily a a treed area uh where
you'd have that buffer. Um but the
[2:00:10] property owner also at that site visit
that that others that didn't attend it
[2:00:14] would know. Um it was pointed out to her
that or to um the the uh mother of the
[2:00:21] owner of the property that there's a
very a huge amount of gor growing which
[2:00:26] is a huge fire hazard uh for us in this
community as we saw in California when
[2:00:32] uh the hills went up and it was u some
of it due to uh species like gorse and
[2:00:38] so um she said at that time thank you uh
we've got the digger here or the the
[2:00:43] bulldozer here we can rip it with the
bulldozer and um but there's some on the
[2:00:48] other side of the fence. So, they'll
have to have those communications with
[2:00:51] their neighbors. So, okay. Well, let's
move to calling the question then. I'll
[2:00:56] call call the question. All in favor?
Those opposed?
[2:01:03] » Opposed.
>> Uh those uh that passes unanimously.
[2:01:08] Councelor Donaldson. Did you vote in
favor?
[2:01:12] » Yeah. Council Donaldson, Council
Schukan, myself voted in favor.
[2:01:16] Councelor Gray was opposed.
Okay, moving along to reports for
[2:01:21] information. We have the District of
Mosen public communication statistics
[2:01:25] report June 2026.
[2:01:31] If I could have a motion. Yep. Move
receipt by councelor Shukan, seconded by
[2:01:37] council Donaldson. comment.
Get these monthly. I'll call the
[2:01:43] question. All in favor? Opposed? No one
opposed. We have the District of Mosen
[2:01:49] building inspection department report
June 2026.
[2:01:53] The report. I'll take a motion.
[2:01:58] » Moved by councelor Shuken receipt.
Seconded by council Donaldson. All those
[2:02:04] in favor?
Anyone opposed?
[2:02:10] Hearing no one opposed. Let's move along
to 10. A this is correspondence. We have
[2:02:15] a request from the mayor of the city of
Victoria. A request for contribution to
[2:02:21] support the 2026 Truth and
Reconciliation Day ceremonial event. The
[2:02:27] letter is there for your perusal. Um
what say ye? Does anybody have any
[2:02:33] comments regarding this letter?
I will comment then. I think um I think
[2:02:40] it behooves us if we've got some money
uh to support the city of Victoria. I
[2:02:45] think even a nominal uh a very modest uh
donation of let's say $200 to support
[2:02:52] this. We've never supported it before.
It is a regional um activity. It's
[2:02:58] attended by thousands. were welcome to
attend and I would ask maybe a comment
[2:03:04] from our CFO if we have money um in the
budget uh to do this. If not then then
[2:03:10] we don't do we have any um extra funds.
Uh we're pretty tight here. Uh CFO Creek
[2:03:20] » through the chair. Um so council has
already given away all the money that's
[2:03:24] been budgeted for the grant aid um for
2026.
[2:03:28] But if you wanted to give 200, we could
uh pull something out from the uh
[2:03:34] unappropriated surplus.
>> Okay.
[2:03:37] » And that would hold uh for other
requests uh such as the First Nations
[2:03:42] Canoe Family uh tribal journey as well
if we were to go down that route. Um
[2:03:48] that would be from um surplus as well
>> through the chair certainly could do
[2:03:55] that. Uh but we've actually we do have
some grant funding that is more than
[2:03:59] likely available for that purpose. We
can talk about that one pops up.
[2:04:02] » Okay. So we'll cross that bridge when we
come to it. Let's deal with this one. Uh
[2:04:06] Maryanne Alto's request.
>> Uh go ahead council shooken.
[2:04:11] » Mayor Little, if that's a motion to
support the um the regional powo at
[2:04:15] $200, I'll second it.
>> Okay. Yep. So that was moved by me.
[2:04:20] Mayor Little, seconded by councelor
Schukan. Anybody else have any comments?
[2:04:27] Okay, I'll call the question. All in
favor?
[2:04:31] Those opposed?
Hearing none opposed. Let's move along
[2:04:34] to 10B. This is a request from Julia
Leget, a manager of the counseling
[2:04:40] programs for the P Pacific Center Family
Services Association. This is a request
[2:04:45] for longterm funding for the mobile
youth services team.
[2:04:52] Uh, you can see the letter there. I'm
just pulling it up. My my computer has
[2:04:57] frozen.
Oh, there we go. Okay. So, this is the
[2:05:01] letter dated uh June 30th out of
interest for everybody in the um
[2:05:07] community. This was sent to every
council, every municipality in the
[2:05:11] region within the CRD. So, they're
they're advocating. This is the Pacific
[2:05:17] Center Family Services Association
located in the city of Cwood. Um, they
[2:05:23] are advocating for long-term funding for
the mobile youth services team, which is
[2:05:28] uh a team composed of a counselor and a
police officer that moves throughout the
[2:05:35] region responding to youth and family
concerns regarding
[2:05:41] um sex trafficking, regarding
um youth being in trouble for one reason
[2:05:48] or another. they're supported by this
pro this program and uh otherwise
[2:05:54] they're facing violence um gang
recruitment, sexual exploitation and
[2:05:59] trafficking uh substance use um and in
contact with the police or the courts at
[2:06:06] the Victoria Family Court and Youth
Justice. We have been advocating
[2:06:10] strongly for the eight years that I've
been on the committee. I'm chair of the
[2:06:14] committee and I'm actually quite
exhausted writing letters and speaking
[2:06:19] about the need for this um long-term uh
funding for this group. As you'll
[2:06:25] mention at this table, we did hear from
Superintendent Todd Preston that he had
[2:06:31] changed the model which was very
unfortunate without notice to us,
[2:06:36] without engagement, without any kind of
consultation. We heard about it after
[2:06:41] the fact that the uh Westshore was no
longer going to be a part of the uh
[2:06:47] missed or a part of that mobile youth
services team. Um which was very
[2:06:53] disappointing to me and I'm hoping that
will change in the future. But regarding
[2:06:57] this specific ask, um I did put put
forward a notice of motion at the CRD
[2:07:03] table last week. Um and that passed
unanimously and that was to ask, it was
[2:07:10] simple ask. It was to ask the staff at
the CRD to consider funding options.
[2:07:18] What is available at the CRD table for
this regional mobile youth services
[2:07:24] team? And I I brought that forward
because it is applicable. It is a
[2:07:29] regional table that I sit on and this is
a regional service. So this is not
[2:07:34] problems that are only happening in
Langford. Believe me, it's happening in
[2:07:39] Oak Bay, Central Sanage, Sydney and this
mobile youth services team is uh moves
[2:07:46] across borders. I'm very passionate
about the group. Um and uh that's why I
[2:07:53] um I put forward the notice of motion.
So I'm not sure if um we need to
[2:07:59] actually do anything. We can send an
advocacy letter. That would be great. Um
[2:08:04] I've written hundreds I'm sure for the
mobile youth services team and I can
[2:08:08] write one more. Um but we it is um at
the hands of the CRD uh right now and I
[2:08:15] think that is more appropriate than
individual municipalities responding
[2:08:20] with with um either advocacy or funding.
Have I made that clear? Yeah. Okay.
[2:08:28] Councelor Donaldson,
>> I'm just wondering um as I read through
[2:08:33] this letter um
>> I understand the value of of this group
[2:08:38] for sure.
>> Um but like so many things keeps getting
[2:08:43] downloaded to municipalities.
>> So I appreciate you making the notice
[2:08:46] motion and I would like for us when we
when when you move that along to to get
[2:08:52] more of a report on that. But I'm also
thinking we're also going to UBCM and if
[2:08:57] it's if there's an opportunity to put in
a late resolution
[2:09:01] » to this effect
>> because that is the place to do it.
[2:09:05] » Yeah, we have had no motions um
delegations at at UBCM before. U but
[2:09:11] it's a good it's a good thought. Let's
let's put our heads together and and um
[2:09:16] put in a a late motion. That's that's a
good idea. Um what was your first point?
[2:09:22] I've forgotten. Well, I'm just saying
like the um the fact that this is a very
[2:09:27] valuable service,
>> right?
[2:09:29] » Right. Um you've got this notice motion
at the CRD
[2:09:34] and and all the leaders there of the
region are there.
[2:09:38] » Um [clears throat] yeah, you could you
could write another letter to the
[2:09:41] province, but it may fall on deaf ears,
but rallying up
[2:09:45] » sure
>> everybody in the region. Yeah.
[2:09:47] » Um and then I look further on here about
the percentage. I mean 1% of Machosen
[2:09:53] just in our budget alone that's $30,000.
But if we compare that with, you know,
[2:09:59] um other communities here, they're
paying more. Obviously, they got more
[2:10:03] people, that sort of stuff. It's I don't
know. It's it
[2:10:06] it's only 1%, but 1% is a lot of money.
>> It is a lot of money for us. Yeah.
[2:10:11] » Okay. Regarding I'm so glad that you
brought this up, Councelor Donaldson.
[2:10:16] Very perceptive of you. that uh comment
regarding downloading was also at the
[2:10:21] CRD table. It was my Tate actually that
that mentioned that we have been subject
[2:10:27] we as municipalities have been subject
to uh downloading and what my response
[2:10:32] to that was that the province um they're
in uh billions of dollars deficit. Um I
[2:10:39] understand that um the the federal
government also has different priorities
[2:10:44] at the moment uh given the global global
crisis. Um it's just simply I brought
[2:10:50] this forward because I'm impatient and
I'm not trying to point fingers at the
[2:10:55] province or the feds. I'm just impatient
because it's been eight years of hard
[2:11:00] advocacy and we haven't seen anything
move. And so that's why I brought it to
[2:11:05] the CRD table and it passed uh
unanimously by the way despite the
[2:11:09] reservations from uh the the um district
of Souk and the city of Colwood. It it
[2:11:16] was a unanimous uh decision to ask staff
to go back and look at funding options.
[2:11:23] Okay. So um I think what we should do if
you don't mind my direction is move
[2:11:30] receipt of this letter. Would that be
palatable at the table? Okay, go ahead.
[2:11:35] Council Dalson, would you like to do
that?
[2:11:38] » Yeah, I would suggest that we move
receipt on this um this correspondence.
[2:11:42] » Okay. Moved by council Donaldson,
seconded by council Shukin. Any
[2:11:47] comments?
Call the question. All in favor?
[2:11:51] Opposed? That's unanimous. Okay, great.
Uh moving right along to
[2:11:58] uh other correspondents. This is
correspondence in 10 C from Kevin
[2:12:03] Murdoch, the mayor of Oak Bay. This is a
request for advocacy letter for
[2:12:08] continued local government climate
action program LGCAP
[2:12:14] funding and this is the correspondence
certainly a great idea. Does anybody
[2:12:19] want to comment on this or make a
motion? Let's put the motion on the
[2:12:24] table. Councelor Shuk,
>> I um I believe that we had talked about
[2:12:30] writing our own letter
>> and um
[2:12:34] happy to assist you with that, Mayor
Little. And uh yeah, I very much agree
[2:12:38] with the principles and I think it was a
letter that we got from Sandwich
[2:12:42] » previously.
>> Yeah, that's right. Okay, that's right.
[2:12:45] » Okay. Um but uh that I think that motion
is already in place so I can make a
[2:12:50] motion to receive.
>> Sure. and and um
[2:12:55] yes, we did have that motion previously.
I'm just looking to staff to uh comment
[2:13:01] on that. And the letter is in draft
form, our own letter, right? Yeah. Okay.
[2:13:07] Yep. Um written hundreds of letters and
I appreciate your support and and help
[2:13:12] uh councelor Schukan. Okay. So, uh, move
receipt from councelor Schukan, seconded
[2:13:19] by councelor Donaldson.
All in favor? Opposed? Carried. We have
[2:13:26] 10 C, correspondence from Stacy Charles,
Shiano First Nation Canoe Family
[2:13:32] Partnership Support for Tribal Journey
2026 event. We did support them a couple
[2:13:39] of years ago. They didn't they went to
the CRD last year. They're not asking
[2:13:43] the CRD. They've come back to us uh for
a request. Anybody at the table want to
[2:13:49] move this forward?
Councelor
[2:13:53] » councelor Shu can go ahead and then
we'll talk. Go ahead. Put it on the
[2:13:57] table.
>> I I wonder if we might find a way of
[2:13:59] contributing a thousand dollars to the
uh to this event. That is what we
[2:14:03] provided a few years ago. If there is a
grant uh which councelor Donaldson had
[2:14:09] mentioned I I don't know what is
available in the grant but
[2:14:12] » yeah that's what was indicated by the
CFO we can ask him to comment. So let's
[2:14:16] put the motion on the floor uh moved by
councelor Schukan to support the tribal
[2:14:21] journey by $1,000
seconded by council Donaldson. Um do you
[2:14:27] want to further motivate No. Uh, Council
Donaldson,
[2:14:31] » I I would like to um include um comments
from our um colleague um
[2:14:40] Council Gray is he had some
correspondence he was sharing with us
[2:14:44] earlier about um grants or something
like that. I can't remember.
[2:14:49] » Yeah. Yeah. Let's move to the CFO and
then we'll move to councelor Councelor
[2:14:53] Gray. um CFO Creek uh regarding the
grant that that might be um this might
[2:14:59] fall under that category
>> through the chair. Uh so the district um
[2:15:05] received funding in 2024 and 2025 for
indigenous engagement and
[2:15:10] reconciliation. Um it seems like it
would likely fall under that scope. Um
[2:15:15] it would certainly help with the grant
reporting if one or more council members
[2:15:20] wanted to also attend this. Um, but we'd
certainly have ordered enough in there
[2:15:25] to uh give them $1,000.
>> Okay. Okay. Councelor Gray,
[2:15:33] » yes, I'll be attending the event. Um, my
suggestion was that we had received some
[2:15:38] money under a grant as
[2:15:45] thisation. I wonder if we could just um
be reminded on the the total amount of
[2:15:50] that grant. We haven't spent any of it
as far as I'm aware.
[2:15:54] » That recent grant, I don't believe we
spent any. Um I'm just going to return
[2:15:58] to our CFO, CFO Creek. Can you comment
on that
[2:16:02] » through the chair? Uh correct. We
haven't spent any of it. Uh and right
[2:16:06] now we've got $96,000.
Uh now, the fire chief is going to be
[2:16:10] using some of that funds in order to uh
build out the EOC program. Uh and that
[2:16:16] requires the cooperation of uh Beach Bay
Shu. uh and so that will take up tens of
[2:16:21] thousands uh as they build out that
report and hire the consultants etc. So
[2:16:25] I wouldn't give it all for this
particular program but there's certainly
[2:16:30] enough funding in there.
>> Yeah. So what I'm hearing we we can
[2:16:34] within the grant framework we can
definitely afford to give uh $1,000 for
[2:16:39] this tribal journey as well. Okay. I
will be attending as well. I did attend
[2:16:44] the uh Shano First Nations tribal
journey last year and potlatch very very
[2:16:50] interesting event and hope to be invited
to the pot latch again this year. Uh but
[2:16:56] the tribal journey was was definitely an
um really interesting event to witness.
[2:17:04] I'll be attending as well and I'll
encourage others to
[2:17:08] Okay,
>> Mayor Little.
[2:17:10] » Yes,
>> Mayor Little.
[2:17:12] » Yes, I'm here. I'm I'm intending to
volunteer at the event and I would
[2:17:16] certainly support the donation of $1,000
and then I would hope that we would then
[2:17:22] uh look to other things that we might
support with Shannon Nation with the um
[2:17:26] much remaining fund as we heard from the
CFO and our fire fire chief activity. So
[2:17:31] I look forward to expanding those
dollars in support of our dear
[2:17:35] neighbors.
>> Yes indeed. Uh go ahead councelor
[2:17:39] Schukan.
>> I wonder if we could ask Mr. Creek if
[2:17:42] there is a um timeline or sorry a time
limit in terms of spending this
[2:17:47] particular grant
through the chair. So we've already
[2:17:51] gotten an extension as the 2024 funds
were supposed to be spent by the start
[2:17:55] of 2026. Um that didn't happen. The
previous fire chief was working with
[2:17:59] them to try and arrange something. Um
but we should have it spent by 2027.
[2:18:06] But if that doesn't occur, we're sure
they'll give us another extension anyway
[2:18:09] for another year on top of that to 2028.
But
[2:18:14] » okay.
>> Okay.
[2:18:16] » Just um clearly this is probably
something the next council should give
[2:18:21] some consideration to. It's
>> in terms of putting it in the budget.
[2:18:25] um in terms of how we work with Channu
to spend the money effectively and yeah
[2:18:31] » as I as I understand perhaps staff can
comment um the EOC emergency management
[2:18:38] there is a they are working on an
emergency management plan in
[2:18:42] collaboration with Shannu uh uh for
Shano uh first nation and they're
[2:18:49] developing those and and quite a bit of
the funds will be directed towards that
[2:18:53] is that not correct
Yeah.
[2:18:55] » Okay, that's great. So, we do even
though we can't see it, there are those
[2:19:00] channels of of collaboration and
supporting each other.
[2:19:04] » Great. Just, you know, two ideas I might
throw out if there are funds. Um,
[2:19:08] shoreline protection might be um
something to look at. Shoreline
[2:19:12] assessments
>> um but also um invasive removals as
[2:19:16] well, whether there's a way of funding
that both at Chanu and and here as well.
[2:19:21] So,
>> yeah. Okay. Okay. Good conversation. Um,
[2:19:25] I'm going to call the question on that.
That is 10D. Stacy Charles Shana, First
[2:19:30] Nation Canoe Family Partnership Support
for the Tribal Journey 2026. I'll call
[2:19:36] the question. All in favor? Those
opposed?
[2:19:41] None opposed. Okay, let's move along to
um uh how far along are we here? You
[2:19:49] know what? I'm just going to take a 90
second break. Um yeah, everybody stretch
[2:19:55] their legs and come back in less than
[2:25:33] Let's uh resume our meeting here.
Any of the conversations and perhaps you
[2:25:39] can move out to the parking lot for
further discussions and we'll resume our
[2:25:44] our council meeting. Thank you.
Okay, moving along to item number 11,
[2:25:50] bylaws. This is the park dedication
buffer land bylaw 2026 number 721.
[2:25:57] This is bylaw number 721 at third
reading. Uh council Schukan, do you want
[2:26:03] to start off or council Donaldson?
>> Yes. I'd like to move that council adopt
[2:26:08] park dedication buffer land bylaw to
2026
[2:26:13] number 721.
This is moved by council Donaldson,
[2:26:17] seconded by council Schukan. For those
in the room, it's displayed up on your
[2:26:22] on the screen here. Uh, council
Donaldson, if you would wish to motivate
[2:26:27] further.
>> Uh, I just want to uh thank all of the
[2:26:31] people that have been involved in this
process starting with the Bufferland
[2:26:35] working group. Um, actually may have
been started before that, but they
[2:26:39] formalized the recommendations for
staff. um staff have done a great deal
[2:26:44] of work on it as well. We uh I think
we've had two different planners working
[2:26:49] through this process and um and now we
have a uh an energetic group of uh
[2:26:57] friends of bufferland doing invasive
work and looking at the future of
[2:27:02] managing or protecting in their way of
their neighborhood the uh buffer land.
[2:27:08] Um and here we are this evening for the
third reading of uh
[2:27:14] the bufferland having a new zone. Um and
I would defer the next um uh bit of
[2:27:23] history perhaps to my colleague
councelor Shukin as to um how it came to
[2:27:28] be to have this place called the buffer
land.
[2:27:32] » Yeah, thank you. that would be helpful
because um people in the room and others
[2:27:37] haven't been paying attention probably
for the full length of this. This has
[2:27:41] been a long drawn out process over the
last four years. So I'd appreciate a a
[2:27:46] brief synopsis.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[2:27:48] » Well, um just let me begin by saying wow
and thanks. Um this has been yeah four
[2:27:55] years in the making and I remember
having a conversation even before the
[2:28:00] the term began. um talking about the
responsibility that the community has to
[2:28:06] the residents living in the Neil Road
area because of the vote that was taken
[2:28:11] in 2017 that involved the land swap
because it does have the potential of
[2:28:16] bringing in these um section 25, 28 and
95 into Machosen in terms of ownership
[2:28:23] but it also did lead to the impacts that
those neighbors are feeling in terms of
[2:28:27] the development of Central Mountain. Um
this is a big step toward that but um
[2:28:34] there's a lot of work ahead of us as
well and as councelor Donaldson was
[2:28:37] saying we have a great group of
energetic volunteers who are going to
[2:28:40] help us help the council of the day
think through some of the issues and put
[2:28:45] forward ideas and also do some of the
leg work on this as well. Um so again uh
[2:28:51] yeah we've been through um we the very
first thing that triggered this way back
[2:28:58] in early 2023
was news of the storm water the covenant
[2:29:03] that would allow a storm water detention
pond on the buffer land and it was it I
[2:29:08] think from that that we decided to get
mobilized and do a working group on the
[2:29:11] bufferland which began I think it was in
early 2024. We did our report on time in
[2:29:17] October of 2024 and again went through
some you know swirl and the usual
[2:29:23] bureaucracy of getting this moving
along. Mr. PayP was very helpful at um
[2:29:27] moving moving again this to um a good
conclusion by bringing in a contract
[2:29:33] planner when our current planner was
busy with the the housing work housing
[2:29:37] report that sorry housing amendments uh
that were done and as needed to be done
[2:29:42] by the province. So, here we are. And uh
I uh if goes without saying, I'm gonna
[2:29:48] vote in favor. So, thanks everyone.
>> Okay. Any other comments or concerns?
[2:29:56] » Yeah. Councelor Gray here. I just want
to um enthusiastically support the
[2:30:00] motion. Thanks to everyone who's worked
so hard on this.
[2:30:04] » Yeah. and my my [clears throat] excuse
me my my congratulations to both council
[2:30:10] Schukan and council Donaldson who took
this up. It wasn't in your portfolio
[2:30:15] originally. It was in the environment
portfolio, but you you um took it on as
[2:30:21] your own. Uh there was great excuse
[clears throat] me great public
[2:30:25] engagement um great outreach to the
community and this is a wonderful
[2:30:31] outcome uh for the bufferland. Okay,
I'll call the question. All in favor?
[2:30:38] Those opposed?
No one opposed. That's unanimous.
[2:30:43] Congratulations, council. Next we have
the general tax exemption bylaw 2026
[2:30:49] number 723.
This is a report followed by a number of
[2:30:55] different uh schedules A to J. There are
recommendations [snorts]
[2:31:00] here. Um I think what we'll do is we'll
go to the report first. Um here that
[2:31:07] I've got some general comments after
that. Uh and we've got a number of
[2:31:11] different options tonight. Um including
deferral to a September 21st meeting if
[2:31:18] needed. if council needs more
information to make that evidence-based
[2:31:22] decision that we've been talking about
for the last four years. So with that,
[2:31:26] I'll turn to our CFO, Jeffrey Creek. Go
ahead, Mr. Creek.
[2:31:42] Thank you, Mayor and Council. So through
the chair, uh this is as you mentioned
[2:31:47] the 2027 permissive tax exemptions. Uh
council may grant permissive tax
[2:31:51] exemptions to qualifying properties
under section 224 and 225 of the
[2:31:55] community charter. Uh permissive tax
exemptions are discretionary and must be
[2:31:59] established by bylaw before the
statutory deadline. Uh this related
[2:32:03] bylaw must be adopted by October 31st or
November 2nd because October 31st is on
[2:32:08] the weekend this year. Uh but November
2nd is the first day of the new council
[2:32:12] and they can't pass it by law uh that
they didn't do the first, second, third
[2:32:16] reading on. So it's all you guys. Um
purposes report lay out the uh
[2:32:23] applications that have been received
estimated financial impact and then
[2:32:26] whether or not uh council wants to
approve a full partial or no permissive
[2:32:30] tax exemption for 2027. [music]
[2:32:34] So the district received eight different
organizations applications. Uh they
[2:32:38] cover 14 different properties valued at
close to $34 million.
[2:32:43] Uh they provide space for rent,
recreation, reserved habitat, religious
[2:32:47] services, and animal welfare wildlife
care. Um all the applications were
[2:32:53] reviewed against policy F100.60.
All applicants were found eligible for
[2:32:58] permissive tax exemption based on those
criteria. And so while the district uh
[2:33:04] while they met the district policy for
approval, council has discretion based
[2:33:08] on policy and the community charter on
whether to approve any or all groups and
[2:33:11] how much of an exemption is provided.
Uh so I didn't estimate based on their
[2:33:16] 2026 assessed value and then at 5% tax
increase uh in 2027 and the total uh
[2:33:23] value of exemptions would be 324,000.
[2:33:28] Um there was a few criteria that like
maybe kind of pause and think on whether
[2:33:35] or not they did qualify. Uh under the
policy if a portion of the land or imp
[2:33:40] improvements is used by a private sector
entity and or organization not meeting
[2:33:44] exemption criteria.
And so with [clears throat] this the
[2:33:47] Anglican Church currently rents out
their building to a number of groups
[2:33:50] such as Drivewise, Exercise Classes,
Elections BC, and Elections Canada. And
[2:33:56] those are groups that would not meet
council's exemption criteria, but
[2:33:59] because they rent out that space, uh
they receive a benefit of below market
[2:34:03] rent due to the exemption provided by
the district. Um and then further
[2:34:08] criteria maintains an organization does
not compete with private enterprise.
[2:34:12] This is a little harder to do in Mosen
as it's not a big business area. Uh but
[2:34:17] there are some private event spaces to
rent and machosen which could be
[2:34:21] negatively impacted by machosen
providing funding for some operations of
[2:34:25] these organizations and not others if
they're not owned by a society or
[2:34:29] nonprofit organization. So a small
caveat but historically the district's
[2:34:34] always provided an exemption or in this
case uh for 2026 a grant.
[2:34:41] Uh so in 2027
uh we can see that the on page three
[2:34:48] here the municipal tax value of the
total exemptions would be $167,000.
[2:34:53] The other taxing authorities would be
$157,000
[2:34:56] for a total of 324.
The impact on municipal taxes is about
[2:35:01] $80 for the average residential property
or about 4% of their total tax bill from
[2:35:06] chosen.
And then below I get into um the rising
[2:35:12] cost of this. So as the district I
chosen um has a very small and almost
[2:35:19] non-growing tax base. Uh the cost of the
grants and permissive tax exemptions
[2:35:23] that have been given for over the last
three years. Uh it's growing from
[2:35:27] 344,000 up to $457,000
uh next year if these permissive tax
[2:35:32] exemptions are granted. and the
subsidies and grants to other
[2:35:35] organizations remain the same as
estimated for 2026.
[2:35:40] Uh there's a breakdown where this comes
from. So there's grant aid for 5,000. We
[2:35:44] give grant a taxes permissive taxes for
$240,000 this year. We give grants to
[2:35:50] organizations of $42,000. And then with
subsidized rent to MEA, community house,
[2:35:56] that type of thing for 86,500.
[2:36:00] When we compare that to the rest of the
CRD, um we chose in as at at the top of
[2:36:04] the list. Uh so our total grants and tax
exemptions would come to 8.3% of total
[2:36:10] tax revenue collected. Um the average in
the CRD is 2.98%.
[2:36:16] The median is 2.25%.
If we focus solely on permissive tax
[2:36:20] exemptions, the average in the CRD is
1.79%
[2:36:25] compared with a median of 1.7 whereas
Machosen has uh gives 4.68%.
[2:36:32] So Mosen's not the only one where
everybody comes to ask for money. Um
[2:36:38] there happens in every municipality. So
a number of municipalities in the CRD
[2:36:42] have already decided to put a cap on
their permissive tax exemptions. And so
[2:36:47] this is something council can consider
this year talkable for next year and
[2:36:52] possibly implement in the future. But if
we look at the table uh souk so they put
[2:36:57] a limit of 1.7% central san 1.5%
Victoria is 1.6% and squalt 5% whereas
[2:37:06] oak bay doesn't provide any tax
exemptions unless it's a nonprofit or
[2:37:10] charity organization that is renting
municipal land. Um and then there's a
[2:37:15] few more on the island mainland itself.
But
[2:37:20] it is uh if MHosen were to limit their
exemptions to the same as Souk at 1.7%
[2:37:25] at the highest on the island here um or
in the CRD total value would be knocked
[2:37:30] down to 90,900 or 55% of the total
estimated tax exemptions for 2027 which
[2:37:37] would save residential property owners
about $38 on the taxes along with
[2:37:41] savings from the other taxi authorities
like parks and recck transit Victoria
[2:37:45] Library etc.
[2:37:49] Um so the process and timeline here so
we've received all the applications
[2:37:54] reviewed it um coming to hear for
council's direction on what they want to
[2:37:58] do. We do have to put out a public
notice under section 227. We have to
[2:38:02] advertise in the paper for two
consecutive weeks. Uh and so there's a
[2:38:06] possibility that this cannot be wrapped
up on September 21st. Um but ideally
[2:38:12] no later than October 5th to avoid
calling a special meeting before the
[2:38:16] election on October 17th.
Uh so staff is coming um asking for a
[2:38:23] few options here whether to provide full
exemptions to all properties that
[2:38:26] applied full exemptions to some prop
some groups and partial exemptions to
[2:38:31] others that generate income from
ineligible groups. Set a funding limit
[2:38:35] on the permissive tax exemptions i.e. 2%
of total tax revenue or don't provide
[2:38:40] any exemptions. And now there is um put
the caveat on there could be some people
[2:38:47] with conflict of interest that was
mentioned last year. Um they say discuss
[2:38:52] the policy and report as a whole before
diving into any individual groups
[2:38:56] itself. Um and then if needed uh we can
come back on September 21st with
[2:39:02] multiple bylaws that break out the
groups that would have a conflict of
[2:39:06] interest or not if we don't have a
quorum when people declare a conflict of
[2:39:11] interest
kind of go from there discussion.
[2:39:17] » Okay. Uh I think what we'll do is we'll
excuse me entertain uh questions and
[2:39:23] concerns and then we'll move to other
aspects. So questions and concerns,
[2:39:31] who wants to discuss it?
>> Um,
[2:39:36] so uh I want to thank Mr. Creek again
for continuing to expand our knowledge
[2:39:42] of permissive tax exemptions and the
fiscal impact they have um on our
[2:39:48] taxpayers. Uh again, I don't believe
that this was fully known and except um
[2:39:55] when this was brought up last year. Um
and even me once I had it, I had to
[2:39:59] probably have it explained about four
times. Um the point was made last year
[2:40:06] that if we were to make any sort of
change to PTEES, we really should give
[2:40:13] the groups significant notice on that.
And and that is a point I will confess
[2:40:19] that I lost and I think is actually a
wise one. So my own as I as I look at
[2:40:25] things right now and without the benefit
of my comments from my colleagues I
[2:40:29] would be in favor of continuing the
PTEES as they once were. So maintain the
[2:40:35] status quo but also suggest that there
is a deeper discussion that is held on
[2:40:42] permissive tax exemptions and the other
funding that we provide to community
[2:40:47] groups and initiatives
um
[2:40:51] and and have that deeper discussion in
terms of the PTS. I mean the discussion
[2:40:56] might go in terms of what what level you
know we set but the point was made I
[2:41:01] think by Mr. Bennington too about the
year after year of having to um um come
[2:41:07] to council and apply like and and that
does leave these groups with a bit of
[2:41:12] uncertainty. So that might also be a
topic of conversation once we get into
[2:41:16] the deeper issue. Um so so again my my
I'm I'm interested in hearing what my
[2:41:22] colleagues have to say. My suggested
approach would be to maintain the status
[2:41:26] quo with PTEs but also discuss PTEs and
the other funding that we provide to
[2:41:32] community groups sometime in the new
year and this would be under the new
[2:41:36] council as well. So,
>> so there's um some is some comments that
[2:41:43] our staff can make regarding our
statutory obligations and what we are
[2:41:47] confined to do with permissive tax
exemptions. I'm going to turn to our uh
[2:41:53] CFO Creek. Could you comment on some of
those and some of the other concerns of
[2:41:57] of councelor Shu?
>> Certainly. Thank you through the chair.
[2:42:01] Um so I guess going going back to the
original idea there of having to apply
[2:42:05] every year to get this exemption. Um so
before we put in the policy in 2025,
[2:42:13] right, um the policy we chosen was a
page and a half and there was no
[2:42:18] application, right? people just wrote in
a letter said, "Please give us an
[2:42:22] exemption or we do X and then they got
it." It was always on an annual basis.
[2:42:29] It was never you've got this forever,
right? A municipality can't give a tax
[2:42:33] exemption forever to anybody. There's a
limit of 10 years, right? So, I haven't
[2:42:39] seen anybody that does give an exemption
for 10 years. Most of it, some people
[2:42:44] have done it where we'll give her four
years, right? line up with the council
[2:42:48] term. Don't lock in the next people. And
that's certainly something we can do.
[2:42:52] Um, come 2027, new council shows up.
It's like, hey, like church always gets
[2:42:57] it, the hall always gets it, YMD always
gets it. Put it in, lock it in for four
[2:43:01] years. This is what you're going to get.
Then they know. Um, now we'll provide
[2:43:05] the certainty. I don't really know where
the idea that we never [clears throat]
[2:43:10] like there was no application process
before, right? So people just assume
[2:43:13] that they would always get it. Some kind
of handshake agreement that was made
[2:43:17] that hey don't worry about it you'll
never we'll never challenge you on it.
[2:43:21] Um and so
I would say when I first started here
[2:43:25] right everybody just complained about
their taxes being too high even though
[2:43:29] you know be the bad guy that pointed out
it's like second lowest in the CRD. Um,
[2:43:33] and so when we find out that all these
organizations that are applying, the
[2:43:38] majority of them had net incomes, like
after all the expenses of half million
[2:43:42] dollars, some groups have like get it
give a give a grant to a group that has
[2:43:47] $3,000 in cash in their bank account.
But to give a grant to somebody who has
[2:43:52] $300 million in their bank account kind
of blew my mind, but do whatever you
[2:43:57] want with the money. I don't get to make
a decision. Um, so it was kind of
[2:44:01] pointing out, look, all of these
organizations, nonprofit, they're still
[2:44:06] making millions of dollars, and so they
can pay, you would think they would be
[2:44:10] able to pay $5,000, $6,000 to contribute
to the roads, the fire services that
[2:44:15] they all rely on in the in the district,
but again, didn't go over went over like
[2:44:22] a lead balloon. But this is where we can
come out and say 2027 pass four years.
[2:44:28] like look, we got to we really need to
take a look at this because over the
[2:44:31] next over those four years, the cost for
this district are just going to keep
[2:44:35] escalating and if we have no tax base
growth again, it just gets dumped onto
[2:44:41] the 98 93 and8% that are residential
property owners. Um, and so it just gets
[2:44:47] more and more burdensome on them. And I
I get it. They all these groups provide
[2:44:52] something, but um you gotta find some
middle ground on support, but also help
[2:45:00] for the people that do struggle to live
here that have been living here for 30,
[2:45:04] 40, 50 years.
>> Did you want to carry on with your
[2:45:08] conversation and your questions and then
we'll move to other people?
[2:45:13] Yeah, I um sorry just just really
briefly um you know the the comment that
[2:45:17] was made earlier about how important
these groups are in terms of providing
[2:45:21] basically the social fabric of the
community and they are the these are
[2:45:26] wonderful groups. All of them do great
work, but we also have to take into
[2:45:29] account
MACA museum society, uh the community
[2:45:35] association, the equestrians. So all of
these groups, um there's a cricket group
[2:45:41] that plays out in the field there. To
me, they're they're they're all part of
[2:45:45] a spectrum of use in terms of social
benefit and recreation and support. um
[2:45:52] even even in terms of um um land
conservation as well. So when we look at
[2:45:57] something like the school that we know
we've just seen the full potential of
[2:46:02] the school beginning to flower, remember
the first year that we've had full
[2:46:07] ability of the school to sorry to rent
the gym and the three classrooms was
[2:46:11] only 2025.
So again there there's a there's a a
[2:46:16] facility there. There's interest in that
from again community groups, but we're
[2:46:21] also seeing the pressure and the
stresses that this is putting on staff
[2:46:24] and also the costs as well. So to me
that is part of the full spectrum
[2:46:29] of again support that we provide to
community organizations and initiatives
[2:46:34] and you I think you've identified that
Mr. Creek. I think you've said that you
[2:46:38] know the additional figure is equivalent
to 8.32 of all the taxes we collect like
[2:46:44] all of it together. Um, so we're at
8.32. The average in the CRD was 2.25.
[2:46:51] So we are I think that's what you said.
Yeah.
[2:46:53] » Through. Yeah. And that that includes
like the pills, right? With our with the
[2:46:57] federal government handing over, you
know, almost like $1.5 million. So like
[2:47:02] we weren't collecting the pills, right?
That disappeared.
[2:47:06] That number would, you know, increase by
35%. So you're talking over 10%. Okay.
[2:47:12] just residential tax going after this
which would be astronomical for a
[2:47:18] district this size.
>> So I I'll just hear you. I just one
[2:47:23] final comment. Um we are going to see
costs increase. We're going to see uh
[2:47:28] continuing interest and expectation on
the school. Something like the buffer
[2:47:32] land is also an important recreational
and community benefit. Um so again um
[2:47:38] grant and a process are we putting
enough into that? Um and again Miss Frri
[2:47:44] had said uh the number of requests that
we keep getting and again it's almost
[2:47:49] every council meeting. So to me I very
much support these groups. I very much
[2:47:54] support um providing the PTE. Uh I think
there is a deeper conversation that does
[2:47:59] have to happen though. So um that's it.
Thank you very much.
[2:48:03] » Thank you Kelton.
>> Oh thank you. Um
[2:48:11] where where where to start? Um the
application process um and I and thank
[2:48:17] you for the um some background on that
Mr. Freak. Um to reapply every year is
[2:48:24] quite an honorous task because that is a
very long application.
[2:48:28] Um so this is something we would need to
discuss if it's you know every two
[2:48:32] years, five years or whatever. But the
one thing I would like to see from all
[2:48:38] the people that um receive a tax
exemption is a report, an annual report
[2:48:43] of what they've done, what's what's new,
what's exciting, you know, um the
[2:48:49] ability for council to go and visit or
maybe have a tour. Like I've never been
[2:48:54] on the Thunderbird property. Um they
they gave a a a great uh presentation
[2:48:59] recently. I know where they are. um
[clears throat] and I'm familiar with
[2:49:04] many many of these organizations.
Um I'm
[2:49:08] so so I think that is something that we
need to also um have a a better
[2:49:12] understanding. Um one of the questions
are is this open to the public. Some
[2:49:18] things are and some things aren't. Most
of them are. Um others aren't. Maybe
[2:49:22] because it's a cons conservation zone. I
don't really know. Or maybe it's the the
[2:49:27] lay of the land that I'm not sure
either. um um security is not the word
[2:49:33] but uh risk various risks um might might
be some of those things. However, um the
[2:49:40] social fabric we got a great outpouring
from our um our
[2:49:46] um what do we call these um these
property owners of you know what it is
[2:49:52] that they actually do for our community.
It would cost us a lot of money to have
[2:49:56] a lot of these services. So they are an
asset. As far as the school, the school
[2:50:02] building is also an asset. It's also uh
was it ever intended to be partially
[2:50:09] commercial and partially
um
[2:50:13] uh
what's the word? Um
[2:50:19] no no um
sorry it's late. Um,
[2:50:26] » so,
>> so I'm just thinking about the dollars,
[2:50:28] the dollars and cents. So, we've got
people paying a lot more money in part
[2:50:32] of the building, um, say the the full
amount for per square footage, right?
[2:50:38] And another part subsidized. That's
we're looking for subsidized um, and yet
[2:50:42] making a profit. So, we need to work
more on that still. Um, so the school is
[2:50:48] evolving. I mean, compared to where it
was two years ago, uh, quite a bit of it
[2:50:52] was empty. So there's a lot of things
that will need to be discussed. Uh a lot
[2:50:58] of um things will need to be evolved.
I'm just very appreciative that the um
[2:51:05] the longevity of services that the um
per permissive tax exemption property
[2:51:10] owners have given us uh as far as
services has been amazing because none
[2:51:17] of them get paid. It's all volunteer. It
is uh it is what Matosen is based on as
[2:51:23] far as rural honestly can't compare it
to Souk. Souk is uh quite a business
[2:51:28] hub. They've they're they're much bigger
and and yeah, everything is quite a lot
[2:51:33] different. But uh we do have to have
more conversations about some things
[2:51:38] especially with some of the data that
you've presented here tonight. But I do
[2:51:43] um
and I've written about this in in a news
[2:51:47] article and spoken to many of these
individuals and these groups. Uh
[2:51:52] appreciate all the services and the um
the work that they do because it's they
[2:51:57] don't they don't get paid but they
provide great service to our small
[2:52:01] community.
I don't have any other questions just
[2:52:05] suggestions for future um conversations.
>> Okay. Councelor Gray.
[2:52:13] » Can I make a motion that we extend the
meeting beyond 10 pm?
[2:52:17] » Uh, yep. Go ahead. Uh, motion to extend
the meeting beyond 10 p.m. Moved by
[2:52:23] Councelor Gray, second by Council
Donaldson. All in favor? Post carried.
[2:52:27] Go ahead. Councelor Gray, did you have
any uh questions or comments for uh CFO
[2:52:34] Creek?
Yeah, just the notion sort of following
[2:52:38] on comments of um councelor Schukan and
Donaldelsson that I think changes to the
[2:52:43] permissive tax exemption
uh approach need a process with our
[2:52:48] community
rather than us meeting and making a
[2:52:51] determination one evening. Um I'm
referring to changing from from the way
[2:52:57] things have been for a very long time.
Um we've already had a robust debate
[2:53:02] this year in terms of the community
involvement and um the response was
[2:53:07] quite strong. I think the issue still um
sits with us though about the total
[2:53:14] value of these um contributions.
We heard uh from someone this evening
[2:53:19] and we've heard previously about the
value that the community gets from
[2:53:25] government's local government support
and I commend you the Victoria
[2:53:29] Foundation report which was shared with
all of us um indicating the tremendous
[2:53:35] um value we get when we support
community groups.
[2:53:40] Um
I think of another example though some
[2:53:44] somewhat different one. It would be very
difficult for the citizens of Machosen
[2:53:50] to pull together the kind of money
that's been spent by the BC Parks
[2:53:54] Foundation to save some very large
acreages.
[2:53:59] Um they're you know protected
permanently now. Um
[2:54:04] we couldn't come up with that money but
we can come up with a tax exemption for
[2:54:07] those groups.
back to my first point. Um, I think of
[2:54:11] the Thunderbird camp where the largest
beneficiary of tax exemptions. I think
[2:54:15] it's something like 4,000 young children
go through or young and maybe not so
[2:54:20] young children going through that camp
every year. Um, so it's a tremendous
[2:54:26] benefit to to young people in our
community and beyond. It's also very
[2:54:31] difficult for the YMCA. They may have
other resources but that camp I think we
[2:54:37] heard back if if we don't have tax
exemptions they have to look to other
[2:54:40] ways of raising money and that I'm
afraid may come in the form of logging
[2:54:46] and yet that property is part of mature
our tax exemption from my point of view
[2:54:50] is part of our contribution to the sea
to see green and blue belt um so I see
[2:54:56] the value there I'm I'm going I'm I'm in
favor of continuing um as we have um
[2:55:02] that we give the uh first second and
third reading this evening.
[2:55:09] » Thank you. [clears throat] And um I'd
like to thank uh Mr. Creek for not only
[2:55:13] this uh report that provided valuable
information for council, but also the
[2:55:19] past uh the the past reports that that
you've provided. Um I have a number of
[2:55:25] comments, but I thought um I I wanted to
ask questions to Mr. Creek regarding our
[2:55:31] current financial picture as well as our
picture um after 2030. And I think that
[2:55:39] should frame our discussion. And and at
our budget meetings this year, there was
[2:55:45] quite um impassion speeches
regarding um being uh um that that other
[2:55:55] members of uh government, provincial,
federal are moving into austerity uh
[2:56:01] measures. um that we also have to be
really careful with our dollars and uh
[2:56:07] we had conversations about what I
considered uh pretty small tuppence but
[2:56:13] was voted down by this council because
we were worried about about our fiscal
[2:56:18] constraint. Um here we are giving very
generously and it's not our money. We're
[2:56:25] giving generously on behalf of the
citizens of Machosen. Although we did
[2:56:30] hear from a lot of groups that they were
dissatisfied with the way the permissive
[2:56:36] tax exemptions um conversation unfolded,
I did have some comments from some
[2:56:42] citizens saying my taxes are too much
for me. I may have to move. Um, I think
[2:56:49] that the some of these groups that have
millions of dollars in their coffers and
[2:56:55] they're asked to pay um uh 7,000 a year
or uh 4,900 in terms of the BC Parks
[2:57:04] Foundation. Um they do provide benefit
and I'm not questioning the benefit that
[2:57:10] all these groups give. They give
valuable benefit and we value our
[2:57:15] volunteers.
But we also need to look at our finances
[2:57:20] and our financial picture. And while Mr.
Cus is um thinking about um his comments
[2:57:27] regarding my questions, I want to just
remind everybody that this wasn't a
[2:57:32] sudden decision in the last year.
Questions and concerns regarding the
[2:57:37] permissive tax exemptions for nonprofit
societies at the district machos was
[2:57:42] first raised by council members at this
table at the September 11th 2023
[2:57:49] meeting. So that was we were not even in
office one year and questions were were
[2:57:55] raised that was raised by councelor Gray
at that September 11th meeting and that
[2:58:00] was in regards to the Victoria
Motorcycle Club and his concerns
[2:58:04] regarding this club receiving a
permissive tax exemption and that's what
[2:58:10] got the ball rolling. So it's incorrect
to say we've been discussing this for a
[2:58:15] year. We've been discussing the
permissive tax exemptions since
[2:58:20] September 11th, 2023.
Uh, two years later, the discussions of
[2:58:26] the permissive tax exemptions has
continued. Discussions or three years
[2:58:31] discussions for the 2026 tax year began
on June 25th or sorry, June 2025 with a
[2:58:39] report from our CFO. Uh this was again
discussed at another opening meeting on
[2:58:45] July 14th and there were no concerns
raised by uh the council that was at the
[2:58:50] table. Okay. So this was 2025. There was
five members at the table. Um on
[2:58:57] September 15th, the discussion was
brought back to council. Before the item
[2:59:01] was fully introduced, two counselors
declared conflicts of interest and
[2:59:06] recused themselves from the entire
discussion. Thus there were open
[2:59:10] discussions about permissive tax
exemptions for the next year at the mid
[2:59:15] district have been chosen as it relates
to what was then the seven nonprofits.
[2:59:20] So that's to give you factual
information about how this has unfolded
[2:59:26] since September 11th 2023. Um and then
the conflict of interest uh has
[2:59:33] complicated this. I think we should be
clear and admit that the conflict of
[2:59:38] interest uh um declarations did
complicate the permissive tax
[2:59:42] exemptions. Um regarding my comments
regarding uh this uh permissive tax
[2:59:49] exemptions, the overarching for me is
our fiscal responsibility. It's not our
[2:59:55] money, it's the taxpayers's money. And
I'd like before I conclude my comments,
[3:00:00] I'd like to turn to our CFO to give um
him an opportunity to give us a brief
[3:00:06] synopsis of our financial picture now
and the comments that he had made
[3:00:12] regarding concerns about 2030 and
beyond. Thank you,
[3:00:18] » Mayor Little. It's councelor Gray. Just
before that, I' I'd like you. We should
[3:00:23] be dealing with FRA facts as you say
>> and I think um
[3:00:27] » could you just wait, Councelor Gray? Um
no, I think
[3:00:30] » the CFO is going to speak and then you
can speak afterwards. Go ahead, CFO.
[3:00:36] » Councelor Gray, you're out of line and
you're out of order. If you can just
[3:00:41] wait for the CFO to give his synopsis.
if you can wait until this.
[3:00:48] » It's a point of order. You said
something that wasn't accurate about
[3:00:52] myself, and I think that needs to be
cleared up. Um, and the the fact of the
[3:00:56] matter is that I raised the issue of the
Victoria Motorcycle Club, the
[3:01:01] Thunderbird Camp, and all of the Tree
Canopy properties. and council then
[3:01:05] passed a policy to say that we would
consider Tree Canopy or approached the
[3:01:11] groups to ask if they're interested in
that being part of their arrangements
[3:01:14] with us. But it wasn't um I would did
not speak against the motorcycle club
[3:01:18] receiving its thing, but rather whether
they would have an interest in doing
[3:01:22] more than um commit to more than just
the services they provide. Thank you.
[3:01:28] » Yeah, thank you. You can go back to the
tape of September 11, 2023 to find out
[3:01:33] what the real comments were. My
recollection was that
[3:01:39] » maybe councelor Gray,
>> my recollection is that you spoke
[3:01:47] against the Victoria Motorcycle Club.
You had grave concerns about uh whether
[3:01:53] they should be receiving the permissive
tax exemptions. we can all go back to
[3:01:57] that council meeting of September 11th
and um look at those comments. CFO
[3:02:03] Creek, could you give your comments,
please?
[3:02:06] » Through the chair. Thank you. All right.
So, for the district uh chosen right now
[3:02:12] for the next five years, right, we got a
budgeted increase for RCMP is going to
[3:02:17] be about half a million dollars. um
we're going to end up using up our
[3:02:21] police reserve uh by the end of 2029,
I believe it was, maybe 2028. Uh so full
[3:02:29] brunt of that tax increase will be
coming in. Um we're also going to be
[3:02:33] using up our
uh revenue stabilization reserve with
[3:02:38] the estimated loss of our Mary Hillland
um in 2028. Those funds are going to be
[3:02:44] extinguished by 2030. Uh and then after
that it's more of a what's the province
[3:02:51] going to download onto municipalities
again. And so once we've used up these
[3:02:55] reserves um the tax increases are going
to be fairly significant. Um especially
[3:03:01] over over the next six years it was
going to be close to double digit
[3:03:05] increases every year. Uh and so it's uh
something that the district really needs
[3:03:10] to consider on what are we going to do
is right cutting tax uh cutting
[3:03:15] expenses, increasing revenues to pay for
what's coming down the line. Uh and then
[3:03:20] when you add on the infrastructure
deficit that the uh district's facing
[3:03:24] with roads, equipment, buildings, etc.
Um anything that happens with the fire
[3:03:29] hall, right, like our building
replacement reserve is going to be gone
[3:03:32] with that. probably a good chunk of our
general capital reserve unappropriated
[3:03:36] surplus. Um it's all going to be
whittleled down quite rapidly. And then
[3:03:41] along with the west parks and wreck uh
if we stay a member of that we end up
[3:03:46] doing whatever their master capital plan
uh is predicting over the next 5 to 10
[3:03:50] years u the reserve that we have for
that is also going to gone and probably
[3:03:55] asked for more. That requisition is
going to be increasing significantly as
[3:03:58] well uh because of the operating costs
of brand new buildings. So
[3:04:02] [clears throat] a number of impacts that
are going to be played out in the next 5
[3:04:06] to 10 years and that's
the main concern that I would have long
[3:04:12] term right this fiveyear period that we
have right now between now and 2030 got
[3:04:17] enough for capital uh projects uh that
are currently planned um and we'll be
[3:04:24] able to cover these taxes again with
fairly high tax increases as a
[3:04:29] percentage wise dollar-wise comparable
to the other municipalities in the CRD.
[3:04:35] But um as the mayor mentioned, people
are feeling the pressure, right? Like
[3:04:41] when I first got here, that's all I
heard was taxes were too high. When I
[3:04:44] looked at it, um comparably, they're
really not. So, it was really based on
[3:04:49] the people that are um land rich and
cash poor, right? Where they bought in a
[3:04:55] long time ago, have houses that are now
worth a million plus, right? Average
[3:05:00] value is 1.2. do but they're on a fixed
income with a small pension that isn't
[3:05:06] increasing at the cost of living
increases. So, uh something to really
[3:05:11] consider on how the district is going to
be funding their operations going
[3:05:15] forward. Um as councelor Donaldson
mentioned, these groups provide services
[3:05:20] that would cost us a significant amount.
We see it in the school, right? The
[3:05:24] district right now is subsidi
subsidizing five different event spaces
[3:05:29] in this district, right? The community
house, community hall, Mcca, the school,
[3:05:35] and the and the church, right? All five
of those um
[3:05:40] buildings rent out to different groups,
right? None of them are full 100% of the
[3:05:45] time. So, they're all being subsidized
for partial use. And we see on the
[3:05:50] school, right, we're losing six figures
a year. And that's because we're
[3:05:54] actually having to pay people, right?
These other organizations all rely on
[3:05:57] volunteers.
And that's where that great return that
[3:06:02] um organizations get when you give them
a dollar, they can turn it into, you
[3:06:07] know, a $1.70.
That's based on them not paying anybody,
[3:06:11] right? Unfortunately, the district has
to pay their staff to maintain
[3:06:15] operations. School is being run on the
side of a couple people's desks right
[3:06:18] now. Um and so we're not maximizing the
use of that space.
[3:06:23] But it is it is very costly and so the
district does get quite a bit out of
[3:06:28] those groups. But it has I think that
good review of what's actually being
[3:06:35] done because everything's just been
piled on but no one's taken the broad
[3:06:39] look at everything that's being done in
the district and whether or not we still
[3:06:44] need to be subsidizing these places
because school was bought back in 2017.
[3:06:49] um wasn't really a business plan in
place in order to actually make the
[3:06:53] money. It was just said, "Hey, we're
going to break even. Don't worry about
[3:06:55] it." Um that has not taken place. It's
taken a lot of work just to get to the
[3:06:59] point where now we're losing $150,000 a
year. But um with the number of spaces
[3:07:06] being rented out uh and the size of this
district, it's uh something to certainly
[3:07:11] consider as costs are just going to keep
escalating, right? Car insurance goes up
[3:07:16] every year, utilities go up every year.
we just go up every year supplies
[3:07:22] doesn't matter right and so and
with the limited growth in the tax
[3:07:28] [snorts] base here right it's been less
than 1% for a quarter century right and
[3:07:33] compared to everywhere else where it's
close to 10% right Langford is doing 13%
[3:07:39] a year right they can they can cover off
things no problem um councelor Donaldson
[3:07:45] was asking about you know how much are
as a percentage, right? 1% is $30,000
[3:07:51] for us. 1% for Victoria is a million
bucks, right? So, when they wrote
[3:07:55] [clears throat] their letter saying
we're giving $100,000 to this group,
[3:07:58] it's 0.1% of a tax increase for them,
right? It's drop in the bucket, right?
[3:08:02] For us, that's three and a half%
increase [laughter]
[3:08:05] to meet that. Uh very, very different
fiscal reality that faces here. Um, and
[3:08:10] it's something that the chosen was lucky
enough um to be able to get away with in
[3:08:15] the 80s, 90s, early 2000s when inflation
wasn't that bad. You were getting a good
[3:08:20] return on your on the savings that you
did have. Um, but as I showed, I think
[3:08:24] it was last year when we're talking
about capital and infrastructure, right?
[3:08:28] Totally switched. Inflation is way
higher than what we're earning now with
[3:08:31] the bank. Uh, so we can't just sock away
$100,000 and beat inflation on any
[3:08:35] capital project. um it's it's gone
unfortunately and now what we're dealing
[3:08:41] with with emergency replacement and that
type of thing
[3:08:45] we'll never get there with with what
we're earning right now in a bank or
[3:08:49] from our tax base growth
there hope that answers our question
[3:08:54] » yeah thank you so [clears throat] I just
want to reiterate council it's not it's
[3:08:59] nothing that we've done uh to bring this
on that the forecast for 2030 has been
[3:09:06] That's just what has happened. Um, and
it's nothing that council has done.
[3:09:11] We've had a very good uh, finance chair
um, who has shephered us through the
[3:09:16] finance meetings every year. We've been
very very conservative in how we have
[3:09:21] spent money. Um, it's exactly what uh,
Mr. Creek is saying. Every cost is
[3:09:28] increasing. The only thing it seems like
is not increasing is a revenue coming
[3:09:33] into the district. We will be at a
crisis fa phase in 2030 and I started
[3:09:41] talking about this as you will remember
in early 2023 when I wanted to set up an
[3:09:46] economic sustainability committee but
that wasn't palatable by one member of
[3:09:51] the council and we've never discussed
that. We should have had this
[3:09:55] conversation regarding sustainability at
the beginning because we were told by
[3:10:00] the province uh in particular that they
will be giving out grants but they will
[3:10:06] not be in the future and um I could see
it based on what I was hearing uh from
[3:10:12] the other mayors what we're moving
towards and I knew our financial
[3:10:17] position as I was a counselor from
before regarding the premierive tax
[3:10:23] exemptions. that we're discussing
tonight. No doubt all of these group
[3:10:28] provide tremendous value and we
appreciate them. Um, but we did receive
[3:10:35] a lot of comments from people saying
these groups provide value, but we
[3:10:41] received also other comments saying
I'm worried about my taxes. I don't have
[3:10:48] I have a very limited income. I'm
worried if we go into the double digit
[3:10:52] whether I'm going to be able to stay in
my home. So the money that we're talking
[3:10:57] about is not our money. It's the
taxpayers's money and whether it is
[3:11:02] equitable and fair for us to ask
taxpayers to contribute to uh a
[3:11:10] municipal tax exemption for some of the
groups that have millions of dollars.
[3:11:16] Um uh for instance the um BC Parks
Foundation they've they do have when we
[3:11:23] we had those figures I was very shocked
how much they really do have in their
[3:11:28] assets. Um not to say that they haven't
done good work in retaining property and
[3:11:34] providing uh conservation and
environmental values. Absolutely. Um,
[3:11:40] but the question that I ask myself
always with these type of questions is,
[3:11:45] is this good for the community? Is this
good for the community at large?
[3:11:51] Permissive tax exemptions. And um, I'm
hearing concerns from our chief
[3:11:56] financial officer that the long-term
picture from it chosen does not look
[3:12:01] well look great. And so I think we need
to be very very careful with how we give
[3:12:07] out money. Um um if we don't pass the
bylaw um as it sits now, nobody gets
[3:12:14] anything. And that will provide a
hardship for for probably not BC Parks
[3:12:19] and maybe not some of these other
groups, maybe not the probably not the
[3:12:23] Victoria Motorcycle Club. I'm just
surmising. But for sure it will have
[3:12:28] impact on the Anglican Church, um the
St. Mary's Church. And I can speak to
[3:12:35] this. It's not my church. I don't attend
um their um um services uh but they
[3:12:42] provide valuable benefit to the
community at large and so I'm a big
[3:12:47] supporter of them. Um this if we do not
give them the tax exemption they are
[3:12:54] going to be in a real crunch. We have
elderly gentlemen that are providing
[3:13:00] services at the old St. Mary's Church
and they've asked for new volunteers.
[3:13:06] you new backs, uh, new young men, young
women that can help them with the
[3:13:11] graveyard, um, upkeep upkeep. And they
do that for free on behalf of the
[3:13:16] community. And you can see at at the
Spring Liies, we get people from the
[3:13:22] mainland visiting that little church.
They've asked for other younger men,
[3:13:27] younger women to help them, and they've
received no support. they continue on
[3:13:34] continue on and quite frankly a lot of
them are dying off. What are we going to
[3:13:38] do there? Uh we can't afford to pay for
a gardener for that. They've provide
[3:13:45] that service. Um so I worry if we don't
give the permissive tax exemption
[3:13:51] particularly for the church that that we
will um what I think um it was spoken at
[3:14:00] the last meeting or the meeting before
that they will be at a crisis and it's
[3:14:05] not my church but I still don't want
them to be at a crisis. We want to
[3:14:10] support them as much as possible.
Um,
[3:14:15] I spoke in favor of the decisions that
we've made previously and I still stand
[3:14:20] by the decisions that we made. Uh, the
three of us, there was council Sherry
[3:14:25] EP, councelor Schukan and myself left at
the table. I still think we made a good
[3:14:30] decision where we aired and this is my
responsibility mostly. Where we aired
[3:14:38] was in not communicating this because
we'd been talking about it. so long from
[3:14:44] 2023 to that time when we had the um
September 15 2025 meeting that's two
[3:14:51] years later it was irrelevant in our
minds but for the community they some of
[3:14:58] them had attended meetings some of them
had not attended meetings they weren't
[3:15:02] following it and it looked like it was a
sudden decision it wasn't a sudden
[3:15:06] decision it was a decision that was made
over two years and it was a decision
[3:15:12] where we did have meetings in June of
2025, July 14th and September 15th when
[3:15:18] all members of the of the uh the council
were at that meeting and then there was
[3:15:25] uh declarations of conflicts of interest
which left three of us at the table
[3:15:30] holding a bag. And so um that that is
just a fact. Um I we weren't clear in
[3:15:39] our communications to the to the
community and and that we aired on that
[3:15:44] absolutely and we'll do better in the
future. But let's face it, there was a
[3:15:47] lot of fear-mongering going around when
the council chambers uh was um filled
[3:15:54] and some of them some of the uh comments
were alternate facts. They were not
[3:15:59] actual facts. Um as Mr. Creek has
mentioned we are in a tight fiscal
[3:16:05] situation especially after 2030. We've
gone from $250,000
[3:16:11] to 400,000
um or almost 4,000 um allowing for the
[3:16:16] PTEES. Some municipalities as is
outlined in this report have caps.
[3:16:22] They've had caps on their their what
they give in allowance for these
[3:16:28] permissive tax exemptions like souk 1.7
of the property taxes
[3:16:33] » because they've had this kind of a
conversation
[3:16:38] » yes what's your what was your point
>> we don't have
[3:16:42] » there's no motion on the table
>> yeah there's no motion on the table I
[3:16:46] said we were going to have a discussion
before we had a a motion on the table
[3:16:50] what was your point
your point of order. What is your point?
[3:16:56] » We should have a motion on the table to
continue discussing the the issue, I
[3:17:00] believe.
>> Yeah. Let's continue having this
[3:17:03] discussion and then we will move to
something else. Um so I'll conclude by
[3:17:09] saying that some municipalities
um have a different formula. They do
[3:17:15] have this different formula and often if
you notice they decide on it at the
[3:17:21] beginning of the term once for the four
years and then it's not every year that
[3:17:26] these organizations have to get back and
it avoids the situation that we're in
[3:17:32] now which is this is the silly season
and like it or not um people also have
[3:17:38] other motives at this time regarding
campaigning um whether they're going to
[3:17:43] be elected or not it's it's actually
brilliant to bring it in at the
[3:17:47] beginning of council at the term and
then for the four years and and I would
[3:17:52] I would suggest we do that if we're so
lucky to be at this table again. Um and
[3:17:59] uh let's see what else did I have to say
uh regarding that. Um
[3:18:10] yeah it and also we we let's face it
we're in a difficult situation now with
[3:18:17] a council of four because if we have a
22 split uh the motion will fail. Okay.
[3:18:24] And that's just a fact with uh councelor
stepping away because of of family
[3:18:29] concerns.
Um
[3:18:32] yeah, and also the conflict of interests
that were declared then not declared and
[3:18:37] then declared again. It's was confusing
to the public and we've had two members
[3:18:43] of the public speaking out about the
conflict of interests that were declared
[3:18:49] and I think we need clarification on
that. And if you declare a conflict of
[3:18:53] interest, as councelor Dawson does every
time, she declares a conflict of
[3:18:59] interest and she states a reason. That
is your responsibility. That is our
[3:19:04] right and we need to have that
conversation as well. So I will um
[3:19:10] conclude my remarks that um what I'm
asking what is good for the community at
[3:19:16] this point and uh what is possible for
us is that if you need more information
[3:19:24] we could defer this uh to the September
21st meeting for a council uh decision.
[3:19:32] It is getting late. We're all tired.
It's 10:30. We've been here since 6. Uh,
[3:19:38] we could defer this. And with that, um,
I don't know. Uh, could I get some
[3:19:44] guidance from staff regarding that? Did
you want to speak? No. Can I get some
[3:19:50] guidance from staff regarding the, uh,
potential to defer this? I'm not trying
[3:19:56] to defer to the decision. I'm trying to
get more information for council to make
[3:20:01] that decision. And one of the things we
may want to do is because we've had
[3:20:06] conflict of interest declarations before
which would put us in a very awkward
[3:20:12] position uh with maybe three council
members or even two left at the table
[3:20:18] which would we we couldn't make a
decision. Um we need to have that
[3:20:23] conversation.
Mr. Creek could you comment on that or
[3:20:28] or Mr. Payet?
[3:20:33] Um through the chair you could table you
could table the decision for more
[3:20:38] information.
>> Yeah. Would that be beneficial to you
[3:20:42] council members? Councelor Shuken.
>> Uh no it it wouldn't be for me. Um I
[3:20:49] again I'm willing to
um
[3:20:54] hear more I suppose but uh nothing that
I've heard
[3:21:00] will change my view that the best thing
to do at this particular juncture is to
[3:21:06] move ahead with the pts
in terms of the status quo previous
[3:21:11] status quo but open up this discussion
next year in light of the full um you
[3:21:17] know all of the pressures that you
outlined the um and also include the
[3:21:21] groups as well. So it's it's a deeper
discussion that includes the groups but
[3:21:26] at this juncture um I I'm I'm willing to
move ahead with um moving to first,
[3:21:32] second, third reading on the PTS as
presented.
[3:21:36] » Okay, let's hear from your council
colleagues. Uh council Donaldson, do you
[3:21:41] want some more time to think or are you
okay?
[3:21:43] » No, but I do have a question through the
chair to the CEO. Y
[3:21:47] » um so if we were to do as um what my
council [clears throat] colleague Mr.
[3:21:53] you can hear is suggesting perhaps it's
motion one. I'm not sure. Um
[3:22:00] in this list there is one organization
that I would [clears throat] have a
[3:22:03] conflict of interest. Would the if we
were to
[3:22:09] motion that we accept um all groups in
the PTE is that
[3:22:15] um without [clears throat] debating
which ones get and don't very similar to
[3:22:20] what we do in a budget where there also
might be a conflict of interest on a
[3:22:24] topic or an investment of an asset or
such. So my question to you is
[3:22:31] if we do this,
if we pass all eight, is it the policy
[3:22:36] we're passing or are we or shall I
recuse myself? I'm a bit confused on
[3:22:41] that.
>> Um CEO pay question.
[3:22:45] » Yes, great question and
>> upfront question. So thanks to the
[3:22:49] counselor for that and uh would
recognize that the um decision would be
[3:22:54] based on the overall general policy and
uh that you have not discussed specifics
[3:23:00] on your personal conflict. So um that's
how we would see that.
[3:23:04] » Okay. Thank you. So it'll depend on
which right
[3:23:09] » motion is being made. So, the
possibility of deferring or tableabling
[3:23:14] this, the um CFO could restructure
potentially the um the wording here in
[3:23:22] terms of the motion and break apart the
bylaw. Is that a possibility? CFO Creek
[3:23:30] » through the chair. Correct.
[clears throat] I would be able to
[3:23:32] create two different bylaws, three
different bylaws, whatever is kind of
[3:23:36] needed. Um just won't be able to do it
tonight.
[3:23:39] » Right. And so my my comments regarding
tableabling this is to give respect to
[3:23:45] our colleagues that have uh declared a
conflict of interest. That is their
[3:23:50] right and it is their responsibility to
to adhere to the rules of the
[3:23:55] confidential uh conflict of interest
guidelines. But it's it's her right to
[3:24:00] declare that I'm trying to give space
and oxygen for that to happen. And if we
[3:24:06] subdivide them then she can she can
declare a conflict of interest where she
[3:24:11] has a real conflict of interest not on
the over broad arching policy but uh
[3:24:18] specifically if I'm not speaking out of
turn uh council Donaldson we're talking
[3:24:23] about the Victoria Motorcycle Club.
>> Is that right?
[3:24:26] » Correct. But right now we don't even
have a motion on the table. So
[3:24:30] » Right.
>> Right. It's hard for me to make this
[3:24:33] decision creating something else that's
not written here.
[3:24:36] » Sure. Sure. And that's why I'm
suggesting perhaps it would be better
[3:24:40] for us to table this, give the CFO a
chance to restructure this, break apart
[3:24:46] the bylaw um to allow for um this.
Council Schulen,
[3:24:53] » should we pass a motion
>> regarding deferral?
[3:24:57] » Deferral, but also um direction to Mr.
Creek to um segment the bylaw to avoid
[3:25:03] any conflict of interest.
>> Yeah. I I I don't think we need to pass
[3:25:07] a motion. I think he's got a clear
message of what what can happen.
[3:25:12] » Great.
>> Yeah. Okay.
[3:25:14] » Okay.
>> Well, um would we would we need a um
[3:25:18] motion to defer or we just table it? A
motion to table it.
[3:25:22] » U Mayor Little.
>> Yes.
[3:25:27] » Yes. Councor Greg, go ahead.
Yeah, I had a single question and then
[3:25:31] I'm ready to tackle the motion tonight.
Um, and the question was for the C CFO,
[3:25:36] so through the chair. Um, then the
Victoria Humane Society
[3:25:42] um last year at about this time a vote
was held that granted them a 2026
[3:25:48] premise of tax exemption.
And we um because their uh their um
[3:25:55] purpose did not meet any of council's
priorities, we asked that they um pursue
[3:26:02] a section 219 covenant to support, you
know, getting a permissive tax exemption
[3:26:06] and to give us progress by August of
last year. Now, we've heard that the
[3:26:10] Victoria Humane Society, well, they've
written us and said they don't want to
[3:26:15] consider such a thing. are they still um
or which council priority are they
[3:26:21] meeting I guess is my question in your
graph you've got them as eligible and
[3:26:24] I'm not sure how
>> through the chair uh so that was that
[3:26:30] was based on uh the council strategic
priority regarding environmental and uh
[3:26:36] care and so kind of comes down to the
animals that they're taking in
[3:26:43] ends up preventing like uh stray dogs
and cats
[3:26:47] from destroying other wildlife, right? I
think we've all read about the number of
[3:26:52] cats that have killed millions of birds
out there, unfortunately. Um, and so
[3:26:57] it's kind of on on that rain that I took
it. Um, so more probably a more liberal
[3:27:03] interpretation than what I was giving it
last year. Last year I just looked at it
[3:27:07] and said, "No, this year
kind of widened it a bit to say if they
[3:27:14] weren't taking them in, people just let
their stray dogs and cats uh and
[3:27:18] proliferate the way that they do um
cause more environmental degradation
[3:27:22] than would be preferred.
[3:27:26] » I see. I I hadn't um I don't see it in
the same light as you do because you
[3:27:32] know we're we didn't discuss anything
like that when we considered our uh
[3:27:36] strategic priorities.
>> Okay. Um I just wanted to ask a question
[3:27:42] from uh CFO Creek. My recollection is
that the Victoria Humane Society did
[3:27:50] come for originally for the permissive
tax exemption uh for the year previous,
[3:27:55] but they didn't follow through on that
and we never gave them a permissive tax
[3:27:59] exemption. Is that correct in their
first year?
[3:28:03] Or did we?
>> Through the chair, I believe like if
[3:28:09] [clears throat] they had applied in
2024, it was it was because it was too
[3:28:12] late when they applied for it when they
got
[3:28:15] ended up on title. So, [music] we
couldn't give them one in 2024.
[3:28:19] » Yeah. So, it wasn't that we denied them,
they they just didn't they they they
[3:28:24] weren't considered.
>> Yeah.
[3:28:26] » Yeah. Cal Gray.
Okay. So, let's go back to the deferment
[3:28:34] tableling this. Uh that's what I'm
suggesting to council.
[3:28:38] » Sorry. If we need a motion to table, I
will make that motion um to be brought
[3:28:43] back as soon as possible with the again
the segmented um bylaw.
[3:28:48] » Okay, great. So, that's moved by
councelor uh Schukan, seconded by I'll
[3:28:54] second that motion.
>> Yeah. Okay. And then with that, we can
[3:29:00] allow other uh conversations uh to be
had. Perhaps uh Council Donaldson can
[3:29:05] reach out to staff regarding uh the
conflict of interest just to make sure
[3:29:10] it's crystal clear regarding your rights
and responsibilities. Council Donaldson.
[3:29:15] » Okay.
>> Before quoting voting, I had a question.
[3:29:22] » Pardon?
>> Before voting, I had a question.
[3:29:27] » Okay. Go ahead.
>> Uh through the chair to the CEO. I
[3:29:32] wasn't clear when you responded to
councelor Donaldelsson. Were you saying
[3:29:36] that it would be fine if she voted on
the motion tonight because it has so
[3:29:40] many pieces to it and so she would not
you would not consider that she had a
[3:29:45] conflict to vote on say option one.
>> Yeah. Um so counselor it's up to
[3:29:51] counselor Donaldson to decide if
she has a conflict or not and to declare
[3:29:58] it and why. So that's her purview. The
the um conversation and the dialogue has
[3:30:06] been in general and the policies
written and designed so that uh all of
[3:30:13] the um
all of the service service clubs or
[3:30:18] whatever um they meet the the general
criteria that are listed. they're all in
[3:30:24] general terms and if they meet or don't
meet. Um, so it's an overall policy and
[3:30:31] so that's my view and that's how I would
consider it. Um, but it's up to to each
[3:30:38] counselor to decide if that if they're
still in conflict or not. Um, that's it.
[3:30:43] » Thank you.
>> Yeah, I I think that's a really good
[3:30:46] point, Councelor Gray. It is up to the
individual council member uh to decide
[3:30:52] whether or not they have a a perceived
conflict of interest or an actual
[3:30:57] conflict of interest. And as you'll
know, Council Gray, you had a perceived
[3:31:02] or you had a conflict of interest at one
time and then you changed it um and said
[3:31:08] you no longer had a conflict of interest
even though um you did have a conflict
[3:31:15] of interest regarding the uh lands title
office. And so it opens up a huge can of
[3:31:21] worms with you declaring a conflict of
interest, then not declaring the
[3:31:26] conflict of interest. And where does
that leave us? So in you you have a
[3:31:31] right you have a right to declare a
conflict of interest but you have an
[3:31:36] obligation to give us the reason the
rationale as councelor Donaldson has
[3:31:42] » consistently given you communicated to
us that you had a conversation with a
[3:31:47] lawyer that is not
>> telling us what the resolution of that
[3:31:52] conflict of interest is. That's you're
telling us a communication piece. So you
[3:31:58] you need to you need to comment
regarding having a conflict of interest
[3:32:04] and then not having a conflict of
interest and then I don't know what you
[3:32:09] you're planning on doing at this meeting
whether you're planning to have a
[3:32:12] conflict of interest or a perceived
conflict of interest or no conflict of
[3:32:16] interest. You haven't declared that
although councelor Donison has raised
[3:32:21] comments that she may declare a conflict
of interest.
[3:32:26] Mayor Little, just to to play that back,
um I think you need to be be um fair
[3:32:32] with your counselors. What happened was
that I followed precisely the um the
[3:32:38] rules of how this works. I declared a
conflict of business. I explained why
[3:32:42] that I was a trustee in the hall. I left
the room. I then as per our policy and
[3:32:48] as per the community charter consulted a
lawyer. I described that to you and I
[3:32:52] stepped off as a trustee of the Hall
which I told you and and I said now I
[3:32:56] can vote on the issues and I think
there's not really any confusion there
[3:32:59] when you follow exactly the policies in
place. Um if you don't understand them I
[3:33:03] can certainly show you the areas in the
community charter and in our own um
[3:33:08] policy book on the on these issues and
how counselors are to behave and it's
[3:33:12] not fair for you to tell me that I have
a conflict of issues somehow around the
[3:33:16] land titles office. I have no idea what
you're talking. That's as as our CEO
[3:33:20] just advised all of council and the
public. It's up to the counselor
[3:33:24] themselves to determine whether they're
in conflict. You don't tell me if I'm in
[3:33:27] conflict or not. You must
>> and I apologize if you think that I'm
[3:33:32] trying to declare asked you to conflict
of interest.
[3:33:37] » I completely understand community
charter 12 or 224 227 and section 941
[3:33:45] the requirement. I understand the
community charter completely, but you
[3:33:50] have a right to declare the conflict of
interest, but you also have a
[3:33:56] responsibility not only to us, but to
the public who's watching. That's the
[3:34:00] transparency piece.
>> Councelor Shuk,
[3:34:04] » we should move on. like it's almost
[laughter] 221 and we'd be really awful
[3:34:09] to break our longest meeting record on
one of our last meetings in the middle.
[3:34:14] » Okay, so we've got a motion on the table
to defer until September 21st.
[3:34:23] [laughter]
[3:34:26] » Sorry, I've got allergies. Okay,
I'll call the question on [laughter]
[3:34:32] [cough]
on the deferral. All in favor?
[3:34:38] All opposed?
That's deferred. Just a moment.
[3:35:04] I'm going to have to take a break for 90
seconds.
[3:38:24] » [snorts]
[3:38:30] » Uh staff, are we ready to move on?
>> Okay,
[3:38:36] I apologize for that. I've got terrible
allergies regarding the pollen in the
[3:38:40] air. Okay. Um item number 12, other
business.
[3:38:46] We've got the progress report from the
fireh hall technical team. Progress
[3:38:51] report uh
council or sorry CA opt.
[3:39:04] [clears throat]
Yeah. Speak speak. Um wasn't really
[3:39:08] planning on speaking to this but I can
start off.
[3:39:12] Everybody had a chance to read the
progress. We've met number of times um
[3:39:20] and we had an opportunity to introduce
the CFO and the fire chief to the
[3:39:25] technical team
and um they've been touring the facility
[3:39:32] [clears throat] and um we have to we
still have not signed a service
[3:39:37] agreement, but we're closing in I would
say on the service agreement um to make
[3:39:44] sure we're all um properly governed and
insurance is in place. I'll be bringing
[3:39:49] that to council
um once that's done.
[3:39:55] Um
and uh we look forward to their good
[3:39:59] hard work. So
questions.
[3:40:06] Okay. Um [clears throat]
do we have any uh comments from
[3:40:12] committee members?
[3:40:16] Thanks.
>> Well, first
[3:40:19] yeah, Council Donaldson, then councelor
Shukin and Councelor Gray. Go ahead.
[3:40:24] » Thank you very much. I really appreciate
the um this report and the layout uh
[3:40:31] specifically the guiding u principles
um and the timeline and how quickly
[3:40:36] everything has uh taken place. Each
member clearly has a task to do. Um and
[3:40:44] involving uh our staff has been
obviously paramount in this and will be
[3:40:50] going forward as well. Um I was
surprised by only really one thing and
[3:40:54] that was that we have six existing
mutual aidus. Um I wasn't aware of that.
[3:40:59] I know at this table we signed off one
with uh Cwood about two years ago. I
[3:41:04] haven't seen anything with the Langford
one. It's now fully um manned at their
[3:41:10] station, number two station. So, so
that's uh interesting. I'd like to learn
[3:41:14] a little bit more about that going
forward. Um that's that's a minor detail
[3:41:18] as to what they're doing, but it is uh
significant. Um I think I've highlighted
[3:41:23] everything here, so I'm not going to
speak to all my highlights, but uh very
[3:41:27] pleased with the uh progress report.
Looking forward uh to the next one and
[3:41:32] getting their service agreement in
place, too. Thank you.
[3:41:36] Kelsea Shuk,
>> I wonder if I could ask a question of
[3:41:40] the representatives. So, one of one of
the intriguing um well, first of all,
[3:41:45] thank you for your work and reporting.
>> Mr. Smurfett, could you come to the
[3:41:49] microphone, please?
>> Sure.
[3:41:52] » Okay.
>> Um
[3:41:57] Okay. So, thank you so much for the work
in the report. Um
[3:42:02] and again, yeah, all the back and
forthing with um I understand uh I think
[3:42:07] there's been also a meeting with the
fire chief as well. So, one of the
[3:42:11] intriguing parts of the report for me
comes under the apparatus bay and it
[3:42:16] says the team proposes to fully
understand the safety related issues to
[3:42:21] determine what options might be
considered to solve these. And I think
[3:42:23] we're talking about the decontamination,
the ventilation,
[3:42:27] uh movement around trucks, etc. Unless
these can be solved, it is of no use to
[3:42:33] investigate the structural issues. Can
you reflect on that and expand on that a
[3:42:38] little bit?
>> Um, yeah, sure. Uh, when we looked at
[3:42:45] the lists that had been compiled of
previous reports, we we we tried to wrap
[3:42:49] our hand heads around that. Um, we first
tried one approach and that didn't gel
[3:42:57] with us. So we we we structured it
differently. We we saw that we really
[3:43:02] have two big issues to grapple with and
a couple of smaller ones. We put those
[3:43:08] aside and said okay so what do we have?
We have all these safety related issues
[3:43:13] and we have structural related issues.
Um there have been in the past a number
[3:43:19] of calls to say oh well you can you can
fix that with steel, you can fix it this
[3:43:24] way, you can fix that way. that may be
so um but there's no use going down that
[3:43:30] rabbit hole if we're blocked by the
safety items. Um so we said okay we got
[3:43:37] to look at these safety items first we
need to understand them. Um we had a a
[3:43:42] great conversation a longer conversation
with the chief and we understood all
[3:43:47] those safety items and we now need to
take those away and say well is is there
[3:43:51] something one can do about that? Um, if
there is, we can consider the second
[3:43:57] part. If there isn't, it's maybe a bit
of a showstopper. It's It's just where
[3:44:02] we are. We haven't made a decision
anyway at this stage.
[3:44:08] » We have made a decision. We haven't made
a decision on making a recommendation
[3:44:11] yet.
[3:44:16] » Mr. Smurfett, can you just repeat that
in the microphone so our council
[3:44:20] colleague can hear? We haven't made a
decision on making a recommendation
[3:44:26] to council.
>> Okay.
[3:44:28] » It's very clear to everyone, I'm sure,
that we're not making any decision and
[3:44:32] we we're not decision makers as far as
what goes ahead and doesn't make. We're
[3:44:37] just a advisory group to uh provide
technical
[3:44:43] direction if you will to the next step
in this project. Right.
[3:44:47] » Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you.
[3:44:51] Okay. Yep. You you can you can sit down.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
[3:44:57] [clears throat] U did you have any other
questions,
[3:45:00] councelor Shukan?
>> Um no, but I I um that was the one that
[3:45:04] stuck out for me, but I do appreciate
it. Sounds like you're taking a very
[3:45:07] methodical
and objective approach um and digging
[3:45:12] into the issues. Yeah. So, thank you.
Yeah.
[3:45:14] » Great.
>> Councelor Gray.
[3:45:19] » Yeah. I just want to say I like the
methodical approach and the clarity. Um
[3:45:23] I found it to be the most satisfactory
report and was pleased to receive it and
[3:45:26] read it and I want to thank the team for
their work. Um and I look forward to the
[3:45:31] next report. Thank you.
[3:45:36] » Okay. Thank you. Um my comments, you
know, I've I've changed my mind um quite
[3:45:41] a few times back and forth um after
reviewing our decision to engage the
[3:45:46] technical team. Um, and with this
report, I have some concerns. Um, for
[3:45:52] instance, it seems to me that um,
they're re-examining space application,
[3:45:58] the apparatus b issues, the fleet
requirements, and the workflow. This was
[3:46:04] already done in the feasibility study
provided by JDA architects. So, they're
[3:46:10] rehashing that. Why have we got a group
of volunteers who in their own um
[3:46:19] capacity in their former jobs um and and
none of these individuals have current
[3:46:26] seals of approval for engineers?
Why are we asking a group of volunteers
[3:46:33] to give direction not to council,
they're giving direction to our CEO? and
[3:46:39] and that brings up issues to me in terms
of good governance. So these meetings
[3:46:44] are behind closed doors where council is
not viewing them and the public is not
[3:46:50] viewing what is being discussed at that
meeting. So we're allowing a volunteer
[3:46:55] group to do things that we're not
allowed to do. We have to have the
[3:47:00] public watching us. So, I don't think
this is good governance and I don't
[3:47:05] think it's good for our CEO to be
directed by a group of volunteers. Yes,
[3:47:10] they're not providing they're not asking
for a fee, but they have cost the
[3:47:15] district already. There was a week's
worth of effort of the CFO or sorry this
[3:47:21] the CFO partly, but the CEO and our
legislative clerk. So, that was a week's
[3:47:28] worth of work. that is that that is time
that they didn't have for other
[3:47:33] activities. So that has cost the
district. Um the uh they're correcting
[3:47:40] the minor uh discrepancies in a
completed professional architectural
[3:47:45] study. I don't think that's role a role
for volunteers. uh proposing to expand
[3:47:51] scope to all district buildings within
200 meters school community house EOC um
[3:47:57] which was never part of the fireh hall
original mandate uh proposing to
[3:48:02] re-examine whether the apparatus bay can
be retained uh skyline engineering
[3:48:07] answered this not only once but twice.
So these are professionals that have
[3:48:13] already given written assessments and
now volunteers who had great careers and
[3:48:20] had were um um what's the term they were
they they were engineers with their
[3:48:27] seals of approval that they no longer
hold. um we're asking them to
[3:48:33] re-evaluate what we've already paid for
professional opinions and so that brings
[3:48:40] up concerns for me. We've also got an
additional member of the team that we
[3:48:45] didn't hear about before and plus we
were never allowed to vet the team with
[3:48:50] our our uh fireh hall steering committee
that came to council. We decided who was
[3:48:57] going to be on that committee.
that that is good governance. We gave
[3:49:03] them a terms of reference. We gave them
what their scope of practice would be
[3:49:08] and we decided who was on the committee.
We didn't decide on this group. They
[3:49:12] came forward and they added an
additional member. No, Gary. Uh I'll
[3:49:19] give you an opportunity later. Okay.
>> Yeah. I I will give you an opportunity
[3:49:25] at in a [clears throat] moment. Okay.
Mr. Murph
[3:49:30] um at the last council meeting um it uh
the council stated the next steps in the
[3:49:36] community needs assessment. Um that's
the correct next step. Okay. Um what a
[3:49:43] community needs assessment actually is
it's it's a formal professional
[3:49:48] delivered study. It's distinct from the
feasibility study work and it defines
[3:49:54] what the new facility um must accomplish
from the service delivery uh in terms of
[3:50:00] population growth, response standards,
the service demand, the risk assessment.
[3:50:06] Um it's a document that uh the grant the
granting agencies uh require and in BC
[3:50:13] it's delivered by firms like um um
Firewise for instance. we heard about
[3:50:19] them in the in the last term. Um Dave
Mitchell and Associates. So a lot of
[3:50:24] what they're
um responding to has already been
[3:50:30] completed by professionals that this
council has given the authorization to
[3:50:36] pay for those. So we've got paid
consultants who have given us
[3:50:41] professional reports that is now being
reassessed by volunteers in our
[3:50:46] committee, our community. And I don't
think that's a good use of volunteers,
[3:50:51] but also a good use of our staff time.
And it's not good governance because
[3:50:56] good governance would be allowing the
fireh hall steering committee to
[3:51:00] continue on in their work. What has
happened is this technical team has
[3:51:05] supplanted and and sort of displaced the
fireh hall steering committee and meet
[3:51:11] the the committee and they're feeling it
and they've said to us why we were
[3:51:17] appointed to this body. Why aren't we
meeting to discuss this and move along
[3:51:23] in the fireh hall debate? Why have we
been disregarded and we've taken um up
[3:51:29] this new group and they're reassessing
them some things that um that have
[3:51:36] already been accomplished and completed.
We have the fire fireh hall feasibility
[3:51:41] study completed by JDA architects.
They've done fire halls throughout BC,
[3:51:48] including Central Sanage, which was
completed in 2018
[3:51:52] by this architect. Um, which has all of
the requirements that we need. It's more
[3:51:59] grandiose, yes, but it could be scaled
to our community. and JDA architects
[3:52:06] that we
contracted to give us that feasibility
[3:52:12] study completed that central Sanich
fireh hall and we should go and look at
[3:52:16] it really it it addresses a lot of the
issues that we have been grappling with
[3:52:21] and I suggest we do that in short order
within the next couple of weeks staff
[3:52:25] and council go for for um uh a visit
there um [clears throat]
[3:52:32] to to continue the two seismic
assessments done by skyline engineering
[3:52:37] that was in 2022 2025 the existing app
apparatus bay is 433% of the current
[3:52:46] code requirement the up
>> moment of order mayor mayor little
[3:52:51] » yes
>> did you have comments on the actual
[3:52:54] topic under discussion or do you just
want to cite a lot of past work you did
[3:52:58] vote in favor of directing the co to
engage the proposed volunt firehouse
[3:53:01] technical team I recall
>> yeah I did. I did. And as I explained at
[3:53:06] the beginning, I've had reservations and
I don't think this is good governance.
[3:53:11] » So, I'm going to continue. I didn't
interrupt you while you were talking.
[3:53:16] And I would
>> I would ask you to be respectful and not
[3:53:19] interrupt me.
>> And so, I'll carry on.
[3:53:23] » I I'll carry on, Counselor Gray.
>> I'll carry on. Counselor Gray. So the
[3:53:31] hazardous material survey by the AIC um
environmental 2022 there's no asbestous
[3:53:38] for instance that doesn't need to be
addressed that has already been
[3:53:42] addressed um the six layout options
developed uh and the preferred option of
[3:53:47] option 1A the new build on the adjacent
ALR site um is another example the
[3:53:54] highle cost analysis has been completed
the mutual aid reviewed has been
[3:53:59] complete did the technical team uh just
redid this and got the same answer. Now
[3:54:05] what is that? What is the utility of
that? Um they're reviewing what has
[3:54:11] already been completed and by qualified
professionals that we paid for it.
[3:54:17] They're meeting behind closed doors and
directing our CEO. As a council, to me,
[3:54:25] that is not good governance. As vice
chair of the CRD and chair of our
[3:54:31] governance and first nations committee,
I see this as not good governance. I
[3:54:37] don't think I will not speak in favor of
this. I've I've Yes, councelor Gray's
[3:54:43] right. I did speak and I voted for it,
but I've had grave reservations since.
[3:54:51] Mr. Smurfett, I said that I would give
you an opportunity. Did you wish to
[3:54:55] speak at this time?
[3:55:00] Thank you very much, Madame Mayor.
>> Uh,
[3:55:05] some of the comments you've made
regarding the people who formed this
[3:55:10] team, I found personally disparaging.
>> Okay.
[3:55:13] » You've received a copy of my resume. You
know that I've been project manager on
[3:55:18] many projects including most recently
the sewage treatment plant and
[3:55:23] collection facility in souk which we
brought in under budget and on time.
[3:55:28] » That's right.
>> And
[3:55:30] » but I wasn't speaking towards the
project management. I was speaking to
[3:55:34] the what what the the engineering
component because on the fire at the
[3:55:40] fireh hall steering committee we do have
a structural engineer. That's what I was
[3:55:45] pointing to. I'm not pointing to your
project management, but but you're not
[3:55:49] asked to be project managers here, Mr.
Smurfett. You're you have been tasked
[3:55:54] and you have been asked you as a little
Sorry, you did ask Mr. Point of order.
[3:56:01] » Okay, go ahead, Mr. Murph.
>> I I'm sorry. I don't see any sense in me
[3:56:04] continuing to speak because I just
started trying to explain and you jumped
[3:56:08] in and I just feel if I continue, you
know, [snorts] I'm going to lose it
[3:56:14] because I don't I don't need no we're
all volunteers.
[3:56:20] I was a professional engineer since
1974.
[3:56:23] I cancelled my professional stamp about
five years ago because I didn't want to
[3:56:30] take any more courses to show that I was
capable. The other gentlemen are that
[3:56:35] way. We have a a deputy captain from the
Sanage Fire Department on our team.
[3:56:41] We're not
our [clears throat]
[3:56:45] work is based on what we submitted to
you to this council. Uh we presented our
[3:56:50] first report. If you and this council
and the CIO feel that we're wasting our
[3:56:57] time, then tell us and we'll we'll leave
Dodge and let you continue on at the
[3:57:01] same rate that's gone on. But uh I read
through this $23.5 million proposal and
[3:57:09] I don't see where we need to have
facilities for
[3:57:14] refugees or battered women or that in
the fire hall and that I mean we're
[3:57:19] trying to bring some reality to the
situation and and if you don't want that
[3:57:23] fine tell us to leave Dodge and we will.
Thank you very much. Good evening.
[3:57:29] » I move receipt of the report. Second.
[3:57:35] » Uh, I didn't hear that motion. If you
can repeat that.
[3:57:40] » I move receipt of the progress report
from the fireh hall technical team.
[3:57:47] » Okay. And that was seconded by councelor
Schukan. Do you wish to speak to that,
[3:57:52] Mr. M uh councelor Greg?
I think it's a fine report and I
[3:57:58] appreciate the work being done and I'm
uh would like to move on. Thank you.
[3:58:03] » Thank you. Go ahead, Councelor Gray.
Councelor Donaldson.
[3:58:07] » No. Um I will just speak out. I don't
think this is good governance. I
[3:58:12] appreciate the work of the volunteers
and I appreciate their sentiment. I
[3:58:17] wasn't speaking disparagingly about
their project management. I all I'm
[3:58:22] saying is they've displaced the fireh
hall steering committee which was good
[3:58:28] governance. That was a committee that we
all vetted and is waiting and standing
[3:58:33] by to help. This has surpped or or
pushed aside the fireh hall steering
[3:58:40] committee and I don't think that is
respectful. I wish some of them were at
[3:58:45] this meeting.
And I I do have grave concerns about
[3:58:52] uh even though they're they're valuable
that they're meeting behind closed doors
[3:58:59] in their discussions and they're meeting
with RCAO behind closed doors. As a
[3:59:05] council, we're not seeing that. We get
the report, yes, but it's that
[3:59:10] transparency piece. The public hasn't
been able to weigh in and see what
[3:59:15] they're talking about. We haven't been
able to weigh in and see what they're
[3:59:19] talking about. So, I will vote in
against receiving the report.
[3:59:26] » Okay.
>> Well, I'll call then all in favor
[3:59:29] » that here to look at and that's the
report. The public can see it. Thank
[3:59:34] you.
>> I didn't hear that but I couldn't
[3:59:37] understand. Let's call the question. All
in favor of receipt.
[3:59:43] Councelor Shukin, Councelor Donaldson.
[3:59:48] Anybody else?
And I'm voting against it. Um, Councelor
[3:59:55] Gray, are you voting in favor or
against?
[3:59:59] » As a mover of the motion, I'm voting in
favor.
[4:00:01] » In favor. So, that motion passes. Okay.
Thank you.
[4:00:06] Okay. Moving back to our uh council
agenda.
[4:00:15] Go ahead.
Moved by councelor Shukin to adjourn.
[4:00:19] Seconded by councel Dalton. All in
favor? Post carried. Thank you.