[7:50] Yeah, I'm gonna call to order
[7:50] the Charterview Committee
[7:54] meeting. Today is Thursday,
[7:56] August 14th, 2025. The time is
[7:59] 7:00 p.m. It's actually 7:03
[8:02] p.m. sorry. I'll call
[8:05] attendance Ian Goslin is not
[8:07] present. Sharon Pollard not
[8:10] present. Dennis Cesario here.
[8:14] Oleni Verramos here Jennifer
[8:18] Canan here John Cummings not
[8:21] present. and Steve Sava here So
[8:24] we do have a quorum of 4. OK,
[8:31] let the record show that Sharon
[8:33] Pollard is now here. OK, next
[8:39] up, we need acceptance of the
[8:41] agenda, so move. 2. Yeah, we
[8:44] have motion by Jennifer,
[8:47] seconded by Olenni and any
[8:49] discussion. hearing none, all
[8:52] in favor, opposed? The ayes
[8:55] have it unanimously. Public
[8:58] participation, we have nobody
[8:59] present. OK, next item is, uh,
[9:03] we had a few questions that we
[9:05] put before the solicitor. um so, listen, I'm gonna pass this
[9:10] over to you. can't You have
[9:23] your my. I did give you
[9:25] recommendations, I think, 37
[9:27] and 28. So you had asked, we
[9:34] were, uh, last time discussing
[9:37] the temporary absence of the
[9:39] mayor. Yes. I will do my best.
[9:43] Um, last time we were, we were
[9:47] discussing the section 37
[9:49] temporary absence of the mayor.
[9:51] um, and we had discussions
[9:53] about how to structure that so
[9:55] that somebody could work
[9:57] remotely for a specific period
[9:59] of time, um, but, but that that
[10:01] would be limited. so I had um
[10:04] come up with some language. um
[10:07] for the consideration of the
[10:08] committee, um I think I passed
[10:10] out copies of it last time, but
[10:12] I'll read this the suggested
[10:14] language. Section 37 temporary
[10:16] absence of the mayor, acting
[10:17] mayor, so long as the mayor is
[10:19] able to discharge the duties of
[10:20] the office, they may be absent
[10:22] from the city or work remotely
[10:24] outside City Hall for a period
[10:26] of time not to exceed 7
[10:28] calendar days. On the 8th
[10:29] calendar day that the mayor is
[10:30] absent from the city or absent
[10:32] from City Hall, the acting
[10:33] mayor as designated by the
[10:35] council, shall assume the
[10:37] duties of mayor during the
[10:39] mayor's absence any time if the
[10:41] mayor is incapacitated mentally
[10:42] or physically and unable to
[10:44] fulfill the duties of their
[10:45] office. Now this is the part
[10:47] you'll have to decide what you
[10:48] wanna do as determined by a 2/3
[10:50] majority vote of the council,
[10:51] the acting mayor will assume
[10:52] the duties of the office in the
[10:54] mayor's absence and until they
[10:55] are able to return or a vacancy
[10:57] in the office is declared by a
[10:58] 2/3 majority vote of the full
[11:00] council and the offices filled
[11:01] as provided in Section 38. The
[11:04] powers of the acting mayor, the
[11:05] essentially the same. Obviously
[11:12] open to debate and your
[11:13] discretion as to whether you
[11:15] want to do that. We were just
[11:16] trying to figure out to
[11:18] separate the, um. like the
[11:21] mental and physical incapacity
[11:23] piece, um, it gets a little
[11:24] dicey as to who's going to
[11:25] decide that and when it will.
[11:27] happen um so I leave that to
[11:32] your discretion, so you know
[11:34] what I'd recommend is, um, I'm
[11:37] on and um the city solicitor,
[11:41] the, the, uh, section C, where
[11:43] would you recommend that to go?
[11:46] Um so what section are we
[11:51] talking about now? Uh, you gave
[11:53] us a form defining the city
[11:56] solicitor's role recommending
[11:57] that that's, that's already in
[11:59] section 28, so it just changes
[12:01] the language that's it's in 28C,
[12:04] so it just modifies that
[12:05] language a little bit. I did
[12:07] hand that around as well,
[12:08] something for you to uh
[12:10] consider. I was asked to come
[12:11] up with some language there to
[12:12] clarify some of those issues,
[12:13] but certainly at the discretion
[12:14] of the committee whether they
[12:16] agree with that
[12:17] characterization or not. OK, so
[12:19] what I'm gonna recommend is, uh,
[12:21] we have. 37, we have 28, we
[12:24] have 33, that's since we just
[12:27] got these from you, perhaps we
[12:30] should just move on and not
[12:33] address these today. I'm gonna
[12:34] ask Lisa to email these 3
[12:36] documents to the whole
[12:37] committee. So we have some time
[12:39] to read through it and prepare
[12:40] for it for the next meeting. Is
[12:41] that all right with everyone?
[12:45] Yes You know what, there was
[12:50] also section 37 that was given
[12:52] out last week. So I'm gonna ask
[12:54] you to email everything out. OK,
[12:56] go ahead copy. Oh, he's gonna
[12:58] copy it. Good. And, and then I
[13:00] also, um, just wanna bring
[13:03] Sharon and that's it because
[13:05] Sherman wasn't here, um. I had
[13:09] distributed, um, a piece of
[13:11] paper that I think we should
[13:13] add to the charter under under
[13:17] maybe right underneath the city
[13:18] solicitor because it would be
[13:19] for the council and it would
[13:20] and it's in the municipal, it's
[13:23] in the municipal code and. um
[13:25] Paul and the chairman Ron Marcy
[13:28] had brought it in front of the
[13:29] council. The council tabled it,
[13:31] um, as an ordinance, and it's
[13:33] good, but it should be in the
[13:35] charter because the ordinance
[13:37] was made after the charter was
[13:39] made when we only had one
[13:41] attorney, one accountant, one
[13:42] clerk. It, it's, it's it has to
[13:45] be done that the Department of
[13:48] Law has its own section in our
[13:52] new charter that we're going to
[13:53] be. presenting to the council.
[13:55] It's just so important, it
[13:57] needs it needs to be in there.
[13:58] And Paul, like I said, had this
[14:01] ordinance. I had. taken it and
[14:03] narrowed it a little bit more
[14:05] so that it would fit in the
[14:06] charter. I passed it out and I
[14:08] also showed um Paul and I said
[14:12] I wanna wait till you get here
[14:13] because I know you had a
[14:16] concern about the, the law
[14:18] department and,, and, and, and
[14:19] it's only fair for you to see
[14:20] what you know, I would like to
[14:22] see in the charter for once and
[14:24] for all. We don't have to
[14:25] discuss it, but I want to make
[14:26] sure you get a copy of that,
[14:27] but I think at the next meeting
[14:29] so we can get past this, we
[14:31] could, we should look at it and
[14:33] add the Department of Law. OK,
[14:34] I have a question, Jen. So is
[14:36] that uh, your recommendation,
[14:39] the solicitor gave a section
[14:42] something that's good that can
[14:43] be in the solicitor to describe
[14:44] that, but the Department of Law
[14:46] will talk about what the um if
[14:48] you, if you look at it, it,
[14:49] it's better to for all of us to
[14:51] look at everything that I wrote.
[14:53] Paul will kind, will,, will,, reduce it if necessary,
[14:58] but it needs to be just like
[14:59] what we did with 278. When we
[15:01] bought Maggie in, we got rid of
[15:03] the accountant. It was
[15:05] considered the auditor of the
[15:06] account in, in, in the charter
[15:08] and we replaced it with the law.
[15:11] and it's a you know, so when a
[15:12] council says, well, can we call
[15:14] her? It's in there. It's, it's, it's doesn't have
[15:17] to ask me, doesn't have to ask
[15:20] anybody, just has to read the
[15:21] whoever has a concern will read
[15:23] the charter, and it will
[15:24] dictate what the job is and
[15:25] what the responsibilities of
[15:27] the council if they want
[15:29] something from um the castle.
[15:31] It is no longer their employee,
[15:33] but it gives them a guide.
[15:35] That's what I want for this, OK?
[15:37] I want a guide in here and
[15:41] basically the municipal code is
[15:42] fine, but it can get changed
[15:44] and it's just too important
[15:45] that I think it needs to be in
[15:47] our charter. So that's, that I
[15:48] don't wanna, you know, spend
[15:49] all night. Can you, can you
[15:52] email that to Lisa and I'm
[15:54] gonna give her these documents,
[15:56] and I'm gonna ask Luisa to send
[15:58] out that and all of these to
[15:59] the committee, and these will
[16:00] be discussing at the next
[16:02] meeting. I think that would be
[16:02] a great idea. Will put time
[16:03] together to go through all this.
[16:05] Yeah. Uh, you, you. No, one
[16:17] more try. There you go. There
[16:18] we go. um, because I'm not a
[16:21] fan of load loading things into
[16:23] the charter that maybe
[16:24] shouldn't be in the chart, so
[16:25] I'd love the opportunity to
[16:26] look at it. Yes. Thank you. OK,
[16:29] so at that point, why don't we
[16:32] move on then and um. uh, the
[16:37] next would be to begin the 2nd
[16:39] round of chapter 4. and 5 at
[16:43] this point. So if we go to
[16:44] chapter 4. again, I know that
[16:49] we've had, um, you know,
[16:51] vacations and everything and
[16:53] once we get through, my, my
[16:55] thought, and you can tell me
[16:56] what you wanna do, my thought
[16:58] is once we finish the 2nd
[16:59] reading of this charter. then
[17:02] we send what we think is
[17:03] complete to the call-in center.
[17:05] Let them go through it, invite
[17:07] them to that meeting and then
[17:10] we'll just get their
[17:11] recommendations for the whole
[17:12] thing. So we're at chapter 41
[17:15] right now. OK, so let's go down
[17:18] chapter 4, section 1. Do we
[17:21] have any, uh, thoughts on that?
[17:24] I do have one, if anyone. OK,
[17:28] I'm gonna, uh section 41B,
[17:34] eligibility. This is the school
[17:36] committee that we're, uh,
[17:37] covering in this chapter. So I
[17:39] think that we should go to go
[17:43] back to chapter 2-1B. and
[17:47] that's how we discussed the
[17:48] eligibility of the city council.
[17:51] and I think that we should take
[17:53] that same wording. and let me
[17:56] just find it 2 1B. At least the
[18:01] first section of it where it
[18:03] should say, only voters who at
[18:07] all times during their term of
[18:09] office shall be and remain
[18:10] residents of the city of. of
[18:12] the city shall be eligible to
[18:15] hold the office of City council
[18:18] and leave it at that. So I'm
[18:21] sorry? I'm sorry, school com it
[18:25] says counsel. I thought I was
[18:26] being smart by changing it. uh,
[18:28] of school committee So, um, I'd
[18:33] like someone to make a motion
[18:34] if, if everyone's OK with that.
[18:36] Only voters who at all times
[18:38] during their term of office.
[18:40] shall be and remain residents
[18:42] of the city. says again, shall
[18:45] be eligible. to hold office of
[18:49] the school committee. so the
[18:51] same language that we the same
[18:54] language from section 21B,
[18:56] except, you know, stop where it
[18:57] goes on to a member of the city
[18:59] council can move from district
[19:00] to district because that
[19:01] doesn't apply. I'll make that
[19:03] motion OK. Do we have a second?
[19:05] I'll make that motion. We have
[19:07] a motion to say any discussion?
[19:11] OK, then, if not, uh, we'll
[19:13] close the discussion all in
[19:15] favor. I oppose the ICE have it
[19:17] unanimously. so that will mean
[19:20] if somebody moves they're out
[19:24] If they move out of the city,
[19:26] then obviously they have to
[19:26] give up their position. and or
[19:31] if they deregister from voting.
[19:35] If they want you guys to speak
[19:37] what says voters, so you, you
[19:39] have to be a registered voter,
[19:41] so. yeah, well that's what we, did in Section 21. Do you
[19:45] see a problem with that? I'm
[19:46] just saying so people know
[19:47] that's what it's gonna be. So
[19:49] if somebody's. no, no, I'm, I'm
[19:53] just saying we're just, yeah,
[19:54] that's right. I don't see any
[19:55] problem with it. I'm just just.
[20:01] domicile is basically a place
[20:03] where you reside and, and plan
[20:05] to stay there permanently. and,
[20:07] you know, so you have to
[20:09] sometimes they look at voter
[20:10] rolls, they look at if you pay
[20:13] taxes, rent, um, but it, it's a
[20:16] place where you intend to to
[20:19] remain permanently. I think
[20:20] you've defined it as where you
[20:22] rest your head, uh, for more
[20:24] than 6 months or something, but.
[20:26] it's, well, I mean, there's
[20:27] nothing wrong with this, but.
[20:35] you gotta, uh, you mute it
[20:37] again. You still didn't do it.
[20:46] You gotta make sure it's green.
[20:49] Should be green, you go. Um,
[20:51] you know, in theory, they, they
[20:53] could have a house here and
[20:54] move out and say that they, I
[20:56] don't know. Does domicile say
[20:58] that you have to actually
[20:59] reside there every day. It's
[21:01] kind of a legal concept. It's, residence plus intent to
[21:06] remain indefinitely. So it
[21:08] becomes a little hard to. I
[21:10] mean. I, I wasn't making a
[21:12] judgment as to whether voter
[21:14] was good or bad. That's
[21:16] something that's easy to verify,
[21:17] right? We just, you look and
[21:20] you're either registered voter
[21:21] or you're not. If you're not,
[21:22] you either have to be if you
[21:23] want to serve. or not. OK,
[21:27] thank you. OK. But in other
[21:32] communities like this, this
[21:33] language now will say at all
[21:35] times. So in other places.
[21:38] there's different language in
[21:39] their charter. It might say, uh,
[21:41] if you're elected but you're
[21:42] removed from the district, you
[21:43] can fill out your term but you
[21:45] can't run again. This will say,
[21:47] this says. the minute you're
[21:48] out of town you're out. Well,
[21:50] if you're a school committee
[21:52] member, I'm not saying that it should be that way. I, I don't disagree. I'm just
[21:57] saying that will be the effect
[21:59] if you're no longer living in
[22:01] the town, even in the middle of
[22:03] your term, it terminates your
[22:05] office. I mean, now of course
[22:07] there'll be disputes about that,
[22:09] but. that's the idea, uh, the
[22:11] intent behind it, that if
[22:12] you're no longer living here,
[22:13] you should be off. All right,
[22:15] so we voted on that. We'll move
[22:18] on to Section 4-2 Organization.
[22:21] Any issues with A or B or? Just
[22:27] have Lisa change the word
[22:29] chairman to president. OK, Vice President, because that's
[22:33] what we had decided throughout
[22:34] the whole document. So anywhere
[22:36] in, in 4 where it says chair,
[22:40] it will say president. OK, and
[22:41] vice chair would be vice
[22:43] president, OK. Now, um, and
[22:46] again, the mayor shall serve,
[22:48] shall be eligible to serve as
[22:49] an officer. or an officer, um
[22:53] so I would just point out
[22:55] there's a, there's a conflict
[22:57] here. that you might want to
[22:59] reconcile, so in 41, it says
[23:02] that the mayor shall also serve
[23:04] as the chairman of the school
[23:05] committee. and then in this
[23:07] section it says that there
[23:08] shall be. uh an election or
[23:12] organized from among the
[23:13] members.. Choose a chairman and
[23:14] vice chairman, so. you may
[23:16] wanna Oh, is it? OK. You mean
[23:22] it was crossed out 41841. Right
[23:29] So the question here is, if I
[23:31] don't know if we did that, it's
[23:32] not corrected so we can, we can,
[23:35] if someone wants to. if someone
[23:38] wants to remove the that night
[23:42] when we talked about the
[23:43] section, so I don't think I
[23:45] don't have a recollection. I
[23:46] think we actually decided on it.
[23:47] I, I think we did. but I, I, I
[23:50] don't think we think the two
[23:51] mayors because I was on. the, last committee and I I
[23:57] voted because we had people who
[23:59] actually came to the meeting,
[24:01] who was on the school committee,
[24:02] and they asked us that they
[24:03] would prefer that the chair not
[24:09] be the mayor, but we have two
[24:11] sitting mayors here, and I
[24:12] think they gave a very good
[24:15] argument in my opinion, hearing
[24:16] nothing, we're a whole new
[24:18] group just because one group
[24:19] did something and the fact that
[24:21] they said that they were
[24:23] running the city, you know, as
[24:24] the mayor. I supported that and
[24:28] I, and we did make the decision.
[24:29] I think we took a vote and it
[24:32] passed that that the um that
[24:35] the mayor would be the chair.
[24:36] Yeah, well, so that that was
[24:37] done by home rule and voter
[24:39] approval that the mayor was put
[24:40] place as chair. I'm just saying
[24:42] the other section we should.
[24:44] make consistent and and not
[24:46] specify that they can go ahead
[24:48] and elect somebody else. I
[24:49] think let's ask the charter in
[24:50] a lot of places is sort of left
[24:51] over from you know, didn't get
[24:54] updated so now's your chance to
[24:56] update the the language so it's
[24:58] consistent with that. So should
[24:59] we vote on it again just uh so
[25:02] the question is. Elenni, to
[25:05] have the mayor not be the chair
[25:06] or the president of the school
[25:08] committee. He wasn't digesting
[25:09] that. I was suggesting that you
[25:13] change 42 organizations so it
[25:15] doesn't say that they're going
[25:16] to organize an elect a chair
[25:18] because they we crossed it out.
[25:19] Oh, did you cross it out? Oh,
[25:21] you already did that. We
[25:21] already did. We voted, we voted
[25:22] on that. You already voted on
[25:23] that, OK, sure. I wasn't here
[25:26] for that meeting. No part. Hold
[25:27] on. What we gotta do what we
[25:30] gotta do is either voted no, no,
[25:32] guys, we have to either change
[25:35] 41A or we gotta change. 4, uh,
[25:39] 42. Jennifer says you voted
[25:43] previously to change 42. You do,
[25:45] so we did vote to so one would
[25:48] be consistent where it says the
[25:49] mayor shall serve as the seven
[25:51] member and also serve as the
[25:52] chairperson. That is correct
[25:54] because when we went to 42,
[25:56] which if you look, it says the
[25:57] school committee shall annually
[26:00] shall serve organized by
[26:02] election from among its members
[26:04] and then it says a chairperson,
[26:05] it's crossed out, it's stricken
[26:06] in my, in my first copy that we
[26:10] voted this this committee voted
[26:12] on. So you struck the word
[26:13] chair, so you're all sad. I'll
[26:15] be honest, I thought that they
[26:16] were struck because it was
[26:17] supposed to be president and
[26:18] vice president, well, that one
[26:20] will be vice president there,
[26:22] but the chairman itself was
[26:24] completely crossed out and we
[26:25] voted on a motion to clean this
[26:28] up again because I don't, it's
[26:29] not on here. OK, well if Jen
[26:32] has it, we voted on it. He did,
[26:33] but I will not have it, uh,
[26:38] Section 412's gonna stay the
[26:41] same. Can you read it? Can you
[26:42] read what it should be so I can
[26:44] see if I have it. Dennis, look
[26:45] at Dennis's. This is Lisa's
[26:47] poppy she gave us, so this. and
[26:49] the Oh it is OK, and the only
[26:55] change that we'll make that I was speaking of in in
[26:58] the Lenni when she said vice
[27:00] and the reason it said say
[27:01] chair, it will say vice
[27:02] president, right, right, right,
[27:03] OK. Other than that doesn't
[27:05] talk about everything's gonna
[27:06] stay. OK, so it should be strit
[27:07] here here it says the mayor is
[27:08] the chair. Yeah, but you don't
[27:10] have to so we don't have to do
[27:11] it. All right. All we're
[27:12] dealing with vice chair, so
[27:13] we're good. So why don't I make
[27:15] a motion to accept this 4-2 as was written in the first and
[27:20] voted on it's actually here. I
[27:21] do have it. We're, we're good.
[27:23] So sorry. That's OK. All right,
[27:25] section 4 I missed that meeting.
[27:27] 42B. Anything on 42B. OK,
[27:32] hearing none, we'll go on to 42,
[27:37] 43 prohibitions. I do have a
[27:40] recommendation on this one. no
[27:41] former member of the school
[27:43] committee shall hold any
[27:44] compensated city school office.
[27:47] or city school employment until
[27:49] this says one year. but if we
[27:51] changed it elsewhere. We did it
[27:53] on the council, so we should
[27:55] match what it says in section
[27:57] 2-5. to 2 2-5, it was changed
[28:03] to 2 years. So we need someone
[28:04] to make a motion to change this
[28:06] to 2 years that motion. OK,
[28:10] motion and in a second, so any
[28:13] discussion on changing that to
[28:14] 2 years. Um, go ahead, you can
[28:17] take the vote. OK, all in favor
[28:20] oppose aye. I know. I'm meaning
[28:24] I oppose what though. So let me
[28:27] get a roll call for the record.
[28:29] um Jen, Paleti? No Sharon. Yes,
[28:36] Dennis, and myself, the chair,
[28:37] yes, so it passes. So now
[28:40] they're both consistent I voted
[28:42] against Oh, OK. And, um,
[28:46] anything else on 43? OK, then
[28:51] we can move on Section 44.
[28:56] There were no changes, Mr.
[28:57] Chairman. No, in Section 45.
[29:02] Sector 46 let me if I'm going
[29:05] too fast. I don't have any
[29:06] notes and. Section 47 filling
[29:10] in a vacancies. OK, Section 48,
[29:19] budget hearing. I'll tell you,
[29:26] and that is it for Chet. for,
[29:31] um, chapter chapter 4. Do we
[29:33] want it just for the sake of it,
[29:35] just say we'll accept Chapter 4
[29:37] we need a motion to accept all
[29:39] of Article 4 as, as amend a
[29:40] motion to um accept um all
[29:44] Section 4 as amended tonight.
[29:47] Rebecca We will motion the 2nd,
[29:49] all in favor. opposed. You guys
[29:52] have a unanimous OK, moving on
[29:57] to Article 5. This is other
[30:02] elected officials, 51 housing
[30:03] Authority. 52 City
[30:07] representatives to the greater
[30:08] Lawrence Technical School.
[30:10] Sorry, uh, since I wasn't at
[30:12] the meeting, were there any
[30:14] change that does not appear
[30:15] there were any changes to these
[30:19] two sections for housing
[30:21] authority or Greater Lawrence
[30:22] Technical District. Is that
[30:24] correct I don't think there
[30:25] were. OK I'm looking at my
[30:27] second copy's wondering if you
[30:29] ever yellowed out, um, I'm not
[30:30] using the yellow out so. The
[30:32] only thing I can think of why
[30:34] it's in yellow is maybe we made
[30:36] a new section 5 for the House
[30:38] of Authority from our old
[30:39] charter. That's the only reason
[30:41] why I think the whole thing is
[30:42] yellowed out. We had a new
[30:44] section and then section 53
[30:46] elected members of the library.
[30:49] So that is everything for
[30:51] Article 5. Anything? So sorry,
[30:55] just one more question of
[30:56] confirmation. I know that, um,
[30:58] when we had public
[30:59] participation, there was, uh,
[31:01] one or two persons that spoke
[31:04] about uh, not having the limit
[31:08] on the, uh, Nevins Library
[31:11] Board of Trustees. Um, it looks
[31:13] like we moved to keep it all
[31:15] consistent, so it's the limit
[31:17] is there, is that correct? Yeah,
[31:20] well, no, there was a gentleman
[31:23] named Ralph Krahman. um, but if
[31:25] they want to go over the 10,
[31:26] they can just come to council
[31:29] and request over the 10. OK,
[31:31] thank you. Well, hold on a
[31:33] minute then. That's interesting
[31:34] because. if this is saying that
[31:38] no person shall hold elected
[31:39] office. for more than 3
[31:42] consecutive terms. I believe
[31:45] it's the rules. of the council
[31:50] where it applies to
[31:53] appointments committees, so I
[31:55] don't know if you can just you
[31:56] can't waive the charter, the
[31:58] rules of the charter. So this
[32:01] is pretty solid that if you
[32:03] have somebody that's served
[32:04] more than 3 consecutive terms.
[32:06] The only way around that is a
[32:07] charter amendment that has to
[32:09] go to the state, right? Right.
[32:11] So I think the concern
[32:14] initially was about the
[32:16] appointments. So whether, uh,
[32:19] right when if they were beyond
[32:21] the 10 year term, they had to
[32:25] uh. yeah yeah we had to come
[32:27] back and and do the
[32:28] appointments, but this is, this
[32:29] is elected. This is the elected
[32:31] position. OK. Yeah. I think
[32:34] keeping it, as you said though,
[32:35] to your point continuity with
[32:38] all the, so we're consistent
[32:40] with it. Yeah. Did you have
[32:43] anything on that or no? You're
[32:45] good with that? OK. All right,
[32:47] so it's chapter 53, we're good.
[32:49] We're gonna move Article 53.
[32:50] We're gonna now move on to
[32:52] Article 6. You want me to make
[32:54] a motion to accept any changes
[32:57] that were made in Article 5. as
[33:00] presented. 2, we motion the 2nd.
[33:03] All in favor? I opposed. The
[33:07] ice have it passes unanimously.
[33:10] Now we go to Article 6. Finance
[33:12] and fiscal procedures. So we
[33:17] have section 6162, and 63 so
[33:22] far, anything. How about 64
[33:36] Section 65 Now I have a note to
[33:39] see the Collins Center, um, on
[33:45] section 65, what they're
[33:47] recommending, so let me find my
[33:48] notes here I had, uh, Lisa send
[33:52] that out to everyone. All of
[33:54] their answers Uh, let's see
[33:57] here are, are you are you on,
[34:09] um section, um, I think you
[34:11] went a little quick, 6th school
[34:13] operating budget. There's also
[34:15] some language in this that says
[34:17] the CDC discussed the language.
[34:19] Um, that's under 6 6-4 action
[34:24] on the operating budget. Have
[34:26] we made a determination on the
[34:27] language we want in there. No,
[34:29] let's go back and do that. I
[34:30] just missed that on my notes. 5,
[34:42] Jen, did you have that from the,
[34:50] uh, Collins 64s. They said
[34:54] there's 3 different groups of
[34:55] questions. So let me look here.
[35:15] From June 11th, Steve Uh, I
[35:17] think it was in June 11th. I
[35:19] have it. If you'd like to look
[35:21] at it So, um, I don't. buy for
[35:30] It was in their emails. What he
[35:32] did was he gave us um some
[35:39] samples of other. other
[35:41] communities I have, but it's, the June 11th, uh, Mhm.
[35:48] memo from the call-in center.
[35:54] And the question we had on that,
[35:56] I believe, was, um, how we can
[36:01] notify, right? And I thought he
[36:04] did come back on that. It might
[36:05] have been the original one. um,
[36:08] yeah, it is. Question 4. This
[36:11] was in the original, um,
[36:13] answers we got from him. I
[36:18] think he said that there was no
[36:20] definition of um newspaper of
[36:25] general circulation. I recall
[36:27] that. It's right here if you
[36:28] want to read it. Oh, is this
[36:29] that same thing? No, it's on
[36:31] this section, but for. this was
[36:39] the original answers we got.
[36:42] Question 5 Mhm. 15 2025 Yeah,
[36:50] good question two question It
[36:53] was actually, um. streamline
[37:00] yeah, with the, with the, um
[37:03] it's actually question 4. His
[37:05] answer to question 4. It says
[37:08] that the one I have done that
[37:10] it's the phrase mirrors
[37:11] language used in MGL Chapter 44,
[37:13] Section 32. which governs the
[37:16] submission of municipal budgets
[37:17] in cities. Section 1 of this
[37:19] chapter, the definition does
[37:22] not define newspaper of general
[37:24] circulation, though not defying
[37:25] the assumption has been that
[37:27] any newspaper that is generally
[37:29] available to residents has
[37:30] determined by the
[37:31] administration would qualify.
[37:33] And as technology has changed,
[37:34] there's a strong trend around
[37:35] Commonwealth to add the city
[37:37] website to the posting
[37:38] requirements. We kind of went
[37:41] with that, yeah, we did, we did
[37:43] it. That was 5, but now we're
[37:46] on, um. we're on section 64
[37:49] right now. And then we'll get
[37:51] to 5. I didn't. No, no, I think
[37:55] he basically, um, I mean,
[37:57] solicitor, what is your opinion
[37:59] on check section, um. 64 as far
[38:02] as um. the way it's treated now,
[38:07] the city council should publish
[38:08] in at least one local newspaper.
[38:11] And on the city's website and I
[38:15] think we want a clarification,
[38:17] but I think that um I think we
[38:21] still have to publish it in a
[38:23] newspaper because people don't
[38:24] always have access, so I don't
[38:25] think a note next to my thing
[38:27] that says we must keep
[38:28] newspaper because it's defined
[38:31] by chapter 44, but I don't see
[38:33] the language about the
[38:35] publication on the website. Am
[38:37] I seeing that? Uh, you got,
[38:40] you're muted, Paul. You can put
[38:42] that in. Yeah, so we should add
[38:44] in. the language, um. to the
[38:49] city website. as well I think
[38:54] we had language earlier that
[38:55] was like municipal website and
[38:58] social media accounts or
[39:00] something. So, so if you look
[39:02] at what's in Section 64 right
[39:05] now. It says the city
[39:07] councilshall publish in at
[39:09] least one local newspaper and
[39:10] on the city's website. Oh, I
[39:12] don't have that in my, maybe
[39:14] I'm reading a different copy.
[39:19] Do you have that in your car?
[39:20] Yeah, I have a different
[39:21] version too, but you see that,
[39:24] uh, the city council shall
[39:25] publish in at least one local
[39:26] newspaper and on the city's
[39:28] website. OK so they must be
[39:30] looking at an older uh sorry.
[39:33] Yeah. So I think it's in there.
[39:38] It's already in there. I must
[39:39] be looking at the older version.
[39:40] So, so then we can jump to 65
[39:43] now. There was a question on
[39:51] the 2nd paragraph of 65. right,
[39:58] and that's where they did give
[39:59] us, um question 6. Lia must. Oh,
[40:08] you're saying it was in there,
[40:09] huh? It's already in. We must
[40:11] have already voted, I was
[40:12] looking in the public hearings
[40:14] section, not the, uh, Section C.
[40:16] I was looking at A as Jen
[40:18] pointed out, as I said, not
[40:20] feeling so well. Brain's all
[40:24] right. I understoma. like
[40:30] that's in there. What, what, uh the Collins
[40:36] Center said, you see it on, uh,
[40:38] June 11th. It's, is that what
[40:39] you're looking at? So if the
[40:41] chief administration Yeah
[40:55] That's a different one. we're
[40:58] talking about um. 65 now. We're
[41:02] talking about, uh, we moved on.
[41:04] The chief administrative of
[41:06] financial officer, look at the
[41:08] second paragraph of 65. The way
[41:10] it's written right now if the
[41:12] chief administrative and
[41:13] financial officer fails to
[41:15] provide such certification
[41:17] within 7 days. after a request
[41:20] for such certification from the
[41:22] mayor, city council, school
[41:23] committee. the appropriation
[41:26] order, financial transfer,
[41:28] ordinance revision, special
[41:29] legislation. borrowing
[41:32] authorization, lease contract
[41:34] agreement. for a term more than,
[41:36] uh, of more than one fiscal
[41:37] year or collective. collective
[41:43] bargaining agreement may be
[41:44] approved. provided, however,
[41:47] that the absence of the
[41:49] certification of the officer
[41:51] shall be expressly noticed. in
[41:53] the order of vote. So I think
[41:54] it's saying if they don't
[41:55] answer within 7 days. it goes
[42:00] through. Um, and that's what
[42:01] it's in here, all right, so we
[42:03] actually we actually included
[42:07] the recommendations of the
[42:09] call-in center into section 65.
[42:11] We already did that. OK, so we
[42:15] can move on. Section 66. or
[42:27] section 67. Yeah 68 is the
[42:43] independent audit. So section
[42:51] 69 financial impacts. of long
[42:54] term commitments. So we did ask
[43:00] the call-in center on question
[43:02] 6. to find out how other cities
[43:07] and towns act. on Section 69 So
[43:12] they did give us several pages
[43:17] of how other cities were
[43:19] handling it, so he gave us, um,
[43:21] Amesbury Attleborough, Fall
[43:24] River. Framingham Did everyone
[43:28] have a chance to look at that
[43:30] and kind of see what they liked
[43:31] out of that. We're looking at
[43:33] the Conne Collin center answers
[43:35] to question 6 on on June 11th.
[43:39] No, I have it, yeah. I have it.
[43:42] OK, so you need two copies.
[43:44] June, the June 11th. for I'd
[43:48] like to I think that might be
[43:49] part of the problem. You don't
[43:51] have these yeah. yeah This is
[43:56] their answers from June, June
[43:57] 11th that we're talking about.
[44:01] I wonder if I have some of
[44:02] these. I don't. All right,
[44:05] we'll give them a second to
[44:07] just, um make copies
[44:29] Interesting to me that they,
[44:30] they're saying that most of
[44:31] these communities delegate that
[44:34] to the mayor as opposed to the
[44:35] chief financial officer. Look,
[44:37] he said, I can't hear you that
[44:40] they delegate that
[44:41] responsibility to the mayor,
[44:42] the financial responsibility.
[44:44] as opposed the question we also
[44:45] had though was when it says a
[44:47] reasonable period of time. No
[44:52] it's just a comment. um, that
[44:55] they're saying that most
[44:57] communities in the Commonwealth.
[44:59] signed this financial section
[45:04] in 6th. to be the
[45:06] responsibility of the mayor and
[45:07] not the cattle. So that's in
[45:12] here ideally they should work
[45:13] together on it. but um I think
[45:16] it's because the Yeah, that's
[45:20] probably true, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
[45:28] that's a good point All right,
[45:37] if anyone's watching, we're
[45:38] just waiting for copies. Good. Good. She's sometimes she
[45:52] doesn't do nothing she just
[45:54] want today I know what you're
[45:55] doing. I of the cia I that made
[46:07] a statement for the first time
[46:08] the you. So when you read the
[46:14] current section 69. that led us
[46:19] to Osa Collin Center for.
[46:22] recommendations I gotta get my
[46:41] end back, so. I, I gave you my
[46:48] original. I didn't get it. Mr.
[46:54] Chair just, just as a, uh, an
[46:58] editorial comment. I, the last
[47:00] sentence of the section or
[47:01] we're reviewing right now is
[47:03] something I think is important
[47:05] that be included that the chief
[47:07] or the Cafo, uh, also, uh,
[47:10] certified that in their opinion
[47:12] that the report that's been
[47:14] prepared at physical impact is
[47:16] consistent with their thoughts
[47:18] as well. Just even though it's
[47:20] theory the mayor. you know, the
[47:23] Capo reports to the mayor. but
[47:25] I like that last sentence. I
[47:27] think it just increases
[47:28] accountability. Thank you. OK,
[47:34] so now you've got the copies,
[47:36] so I know that some of you, we
[47:37] didn't get a chance to go
[47:39] through question 6 and see how
[47:40] it's. Those of you who did read
[47:42] through this, do you see
[47:44] anything that, that makes this
[47:45] clearer? Section 6, 69 we're
[47:56] talking about and that is the
[47:58] question was answered question
[47:59] 6. from the call-in center and
[48:06] just a point of information,
[48:07] when you're looking at the
[48:10] call-in centers Fall River
[48:11] Section 6-9. The mayor shall.
[48:14] they they, they don't have a
[48:16] castle and so the chief
[48:18] administrative officer took
[48:20] over as far as all. financial
[48:23] responsibilities, so that's the
[48:24] difference between the Fall
[48:26] River section in our section. I
[48:29] think the 69 here and our
[48:32] yellow highlighted area speaks
[48:34] very well, I think, right? And
[48:36] did you get your piece in? the
[48:38] one cause it the the last
[48:39] sentence, the assessment shall
[48:41] and analysis shall be provided
[48:42] by the Chief Administrative
[48:44] Financial Officer as a
[48:45] professional opinion. She gives
[48:46] those. She, every, if you go to
[48:48] every agenda, she has a. paper
[48:51] that looks just like this, and
[48:53] if there's any financial impact
[48:55] on anything, whether it's
[48:56] buying a truck, whether it's uh
[48:59] supporting a contract. a grant
[49:01] she gives. she gives a
[49:03] breakdown if, if it's something
[49:05] that has no financial effect,
[49:07] she just says no fin no
[49:08] financial effect on the city.
[49:10] So I think that's pretty good.
[49:12] language Yeah, you're muted Our
[49:27] language presently. requires
[49:30] this of the kappa. but what the
[49:35] Collins Center is saying by
[49:37] including. several uh other
[49:40] cities in the Commonwealth.
[49:43] that they're signing the
[49:45] responsibility to the mayor. No,
[49:47] I think we asked the Collins
[49:49] Center to tell us what other
[49:50] cities are doing, but because
[49:53] we have a careful, we're gonna
[49:55] get to section 74 at the next
[49:57] meeting, which defines the
[49:59] Cafo's job, so. we have to make
[50:01] sure that we're not taking away
[50:04] responsibilities of the calffo.
[50:06] So let's, so maybe we should
[50:07] hold this until we review that.
[50:09] Well, we will. We can go back
[50:10] to it, but right now this, I
[50:11] think this is in line with the
[50:14] fact that we have a careful,
[50:15] you know what I'm saying? When
[50:16] you go to section 7, every city
[50:20] and town has a financial person.
[50:23] Well, some have an accountant.
[50:25] They don't have. There are some,
[50:28] I mean, every city has a. So do
[50:31] we want to just leave this as
[50:33] it is until we review chapter.
[50:38] 74 back we don't, I
[50:39] mean this one just talks about
[50:41] the financial impacts of the
[50:42] long term. In other words, it's
[50:44] the financial impact statement
[50:46] that's that really was an
[50:48] ordinance, not even a
[50:50] resolution about 15 years ago,
[50:52] maybe more, and now that when
[50:54] we, when we had that problem.
[50:56] and we got a Cafo, it became a
[50:58] little bit more that every city
[51:00] council meeting she needs to
[51:01] opine or he needs to opine on
[51:05] anything that has a financial
[51:06] impact, and that's basically
[51:07] what this says. Yeah, so, yeah,
[51:09] and what, what I think Sharon
[51:11] was saying was, I, I mean, the, asserting or compiling,
[51:17] putting forth a plan. uh
[51:20] financial plan for the
[51:21] following year. should be a
[51:27] major and it should have major
[51:29] involvement of the mayor does.
[51:30] So I would, uh, here's just the
[51:32] way I'm thinking that it should
[51:34] be the responsibility of the
[51:35] mayor. and I'm thinking that a
[51:38] mayor would be foolish not to
[51:40] work in cooperation with their
[51:42] chief financial officer. I mean,
[51:44] no mayor would do that because
[51:45] you would stand the chance of
[51:48] maybe doing an incomplete or
[51:50] whatever statement Well, it's
[51:52] interesting because I think
[51:54] that the capital improvement
[51:55] plan does say. that it's in
[51:59] consultation with the CAO but
[52:01] then. so I think the Caro's
[52:04] going to be involved in the
[52:06] planning. The question to your
[52:08] point, which is it says it
[52:10] rests with the mayor to uh
[52:14] provide this um fiscal impact
[52:18] statement, if you will. um
[52:20] which presumably would be
[52:23] developed while they're doing
[52:25] the capital improvement plan,
[52:26] you would hope, right? What I
[52:28] do find interesting is in the
[52:32] Fall River piece. um is, uh,
[52:38] how deeply specific it is. I'm
[52:41] not saying we should, uh,
[52:42] absolutely consider it, but you
[52:43] know, it says, you know, trends
[52:46] impact the condition long term
[52:47] debt service that will be
[52:49] incurred, debt management plan.
[52:50] These are really important
[52:51] things. as we all know, uh, as
[52:55] we're. talking about capital
[52:58] improvement, um, you know,
[52:59] potential for new or expanded
[53:01] revenues, um. so I think in the
[53:05] CAFO Act there this language
[53:08] that you're talking about, the
[53:09] more long-term, is there in the section, there is a
[53:13] section that, and I'm assuming
[53:14] you later on have added that
[53:16] language because that's part of
[53:18] this exercise to chapter
[53:20] section 74. It's all in there
[53:21] there's, I may not mimic this
[53:23] exactly, but there is a long
[53:25] term, I think, 5 year plan
[53:27] which you may wanna add
[53:28] additions to like there are
[53:29] some things that aren't in
[53:30] there that are in here. So
[53:33] point of information too, uh,
[53:35] any bonding, any borrowing
[53:38] requires that exact document as
[53:40] part of the bond prospectus. So, it, it, it's available. and
[53:45] reviewed, I'm sure when the
[53:47] council was looking at a bond
[53:48] perspectives, it's, it's, it's
[53:50] part of it. Yeah. But I think
[53:53] the mayor, I think the Cao
[53:54] needs to be. involved at all.
[53:57] She's the chief financial
[53:59] officer. So, I mean, it does
[54:01] say the mayor working with the
[54:02] Cafo, I would. no, uh, are you
[54:08] on section 69 or? upon written
[54:11] request from the mayor or a
[54:13] written request from the city
[54:14] council chief administrative.
[54:17] financial officer You're muted
[54:26] To me that says if someone
[54:28] requests it uh he or she, the
[54:30] mayor. but I think it's
[54:34] important that we state that
[54:36] the mayor is ultimately
[54:37] responsible for the, I mean,
[54:38] the mayor's the chief executive
[54:40] officer of the city, so they
[54:42] are in fact responsible for the
[54:44] finances, but if, if I were the
[54:46] mayor, I would be working very
[54:49] closely with the kappa and
[54:52] assigning this to her or he
[54:54] saying, you know, take the
[54:55] first cut at it and then we'll
[54:56] chat about it. So I, I, I just
[54:58] think that's the proper way it
[55:00] should be. I think that the way
[55:04] the Cafe's job was created. it
[55:06] gives the Caho a lot of power.
[55:10] She is ultimately responsible
[55:11] financially. The mayor could
[55:13] say to her, I want you to move
[55:14] money from one department to
[55:16] the other, and she can say to
[55:17] the mayor, I'm not going to do
[55:18] that. Now, now the mayor has
[55:20] the ability to fire the calffo,
[55:22] but she can then appeal to the
[55:24] council, but hopefully, I mean.
[55:27] if, if what, what mayor is
[55:29] going to not take the advice
[55:31] unless it's bad advice. Take
[55:33] the advice of the chief
[55:36] financial officer because might
[55:37] be they could turn around and
[55:38] come to the council, make a big
[55:40] ruhaha over it so uh. I mean, I, think that's the mayor's job
[55:46] to make sure that he or she
[55:48] supervises the the chief
[55:51] finances of the city and the
[55:53] person who's responsible for
[55:54] that. I mean, that's their job
[55:56] just like they're responsible
[55:58] for the Department of Community
[56:00] Development and anything else.
[56:02] Well, I don't think this makes
[56:03] the mayor not responsible. I, I
[56:05] mean, I understand what you're
[56:06] saying. It's sort of saying.
[56:08] the mayor has to ask the CAO
[56:09] for a written opinion when
[56:12] usually that would just happen
[56:13] as a matter of course, like I
[56:15] think it's more important for
[56:16] the council to be able to ask
[56:19] for a written opinion on issues.
[56:21] I think the mayor's the
[56:23] director indirectly appointing
[56:24] the CAO, so it's a little
[56:25] different, but I think this is
[56:26] more of an information section
[56:29] than a duty section. Yeah I, I
[56:32] think that prison 69, yes. Yeah.
[56:35] I, I just think it pretty much
[56:37] leaves the mayor out of it.
[56:38] Well, I, I can give you another
[56:40] insight of when it says
[56:42] financial impacts of long-term
[56:44] commitment, um. and as you said,
[56:46] I think it's just in here, the
[56:49] mayor has to have a written
[56:51] request when we gave up the
[56:52] auditor, the city council, they
[56:55] were very concerned with, well,
[56:57] we're just 9, you know,
[56:59] individuals here from all
[57:01] different backgrounds and what
[57:02] if there was something that you
[57:04] know, that they wanted to ask
[57:06] the capital for, like, before
[57:07] the meeting, you know, because
[57:08] at the meeting, she's sitting
[57:11] in that chair and the council
[57:13] can ask Curb, and that's what
[57:14] me and Eleni was saying when it
[57:15] says oral. So say they say, hey,
[57:17] um, you know, this truck that
[57:18] we're buying, you know, in 5
[57:20] years, oh, and she might say,
[57:21] well, you know, we have all
[57:22] these other trucks and they're
[57:23] all coming off of the debt, so
[57:25] it will be good even though
[57:26] that may not have been a report,
[57:28] it's oral and it's on the floor
[57:29] and it's in recorded, but if
[57:32] because of her duties and we'll
[57:34] probably see that in 7, it is a
[57:36] must, and that's why like if
[57:37] you look at the agenda, she
[57:39] does have a report and it's
[57:40] this, and not to say the
[57:42] mayor's not involved in it, he
[57:43] is, he is involved, but it's
[57:45] her job to make sure that the
[57:47] financial long term no,
[57:48] absolutely, I don't, I don't
[57:50] disagree with that it's her job,
[57:50] but, but I would say too that
[57:52] the council should have the
[57:54] right or the authority to
[57:56] question any department that
[57:58] about information that they do
[58:00] well, but I mean it's the same
[58:01] thing really. I mean. no, I
[58:04] agree it is strangely worded
[58:06] where it says upon written
[58:08] request. from the mayor, right?
[58:10] Upon writing requests from the
[58:11] city council makes sense, but
[58:12] from the mayor, like, shouldn't
[58:13] the mayor just be able, like,
[58:16] yeah, like shouldn't that
[58:18] already be something Yeah. Yeah,
[58:30] you could, you could just say
[58:32] as requested by the mayor. I
[58:40] You're muted again. It
[58:41] shouldn't just be as requested
[58:43] by the mayor. I think it the
[58:45] mayor is ultimately responsible
[58:46] for this. Am I correct? It's
[58:49] the mayor who's responsible for
[58:50] the finances of the city. She
[58:53] has a great or he has great
[58:54] authority. in regards to that
[58:58] but this just basically says
[59:00] the mayor it's time to put
[59:03] together the fiscal outlook for
[59:04] the city and I'm, I guess I'm
[59:06] gonna stroll down the hall and
[59:07] ask theafo to begin. when, when
[59:10] it, I think it should be worded
[59:11] differently, so the, the
[59:14] responsibility rests where it
[59:15] is, where it should be, with
[59:18] the chief executive officer of
[59:19] the city. and and he or she is
[59:21] going to rise or fall over
[59:23] their working relationship with
[59:24] the cap. This may be from 278,
[59:27] Paul. I'm not sure if they took
[59:29] this from 278, which was the
[59:30] law. And when, when, when, when
[59:33] the capital was hired, believe
[59:35] it or not, at the time the
[59:38] mere's salary was $80,000 when
[59:42] they hired the Cao. It was at a
[59:44] 175,000. It was the most
[59:47] expensive employee, even more
[59:48] than the superintendent because
[59:49] at that point, they were the
[59:51] administrative and financial
[59:53] officer of the entire city,
[59:54] including the schools. It
[59:56] believe me, we, we weeks has
[59:58] Steve, we had to and we wanted
[59:59] to make sure this was language
[1:00:02] some of them were counseling
[1:00:03] which was put in to say, well,
[1:00:05] what if we're shut out? What if
[1:00:06] we, because we had a lot of it
[1:00:08] in the state was very involved
[1:00:09] in that. They were very, I
[1:00:10] think the auditor made more
[1:00:11] than $80,000. I'm sorry, say
[1:00:13] that. I think the auditor made
[1:00:15] more than $80,000. Well, well, could be the mayor, the
[1:00:19] mayor, she said. I think he, no,
[1:00:23] so that just showed the
[1:00:24] authority that the state wanted
[1:00:26] this because again, some mayors
[1:00:27] have different backgrounds, but
[1:00:29] this particular person came
[1:00:30] with a strong financial
[1:00:32] background and that's why, yes,
[1:00:34] the mayor and them should
[1:00:35] absolutely work together, but
[1:00:37] the financial specialty should
[1:00:38] be from the person that they
[1:00:40] hired at that that is, as you
[1:00:42] said, that was the state.
[1:00:45] involvement in this in demand
[1:00:47] basically and we created, uh,
[1:00:50] you, you can say that, um, the
[1:00:52] mayor should make the decisions,
[1:00:54] but this all came about uh from
[1:00:57] a mayor that ignored the advice
[1:01:00] of the accountant at the time.
[1:01:02] He was to that. Well, what
[1:01:05] happened to the city, so you
[1:01:07] could say the mayor, he
[1:01:08] finished his 6th term, his 3rd
[1:01:10] term, the mayor finished. So
[1:01:12] nothing happened, but my point
[1:01:13] is that look, whoever being
[1:01:18] mayor is an election and
[1:01:20] unfortunately there are no
[1:01:22] requirements and a city the
[1:01:24] size of Methuen with a $220
[1:01:28] million budget needs someone
[1:01:30] with financial backing. Now, if
[1:01:31] we had a city manager who had a
[1:01:34] show there, their financial
[1:01:36] background to be able to run
[1:01:37] the city, then maybe that would
[1:01:38] be different. But to elect a
[1:01:40] mayor, we've seen some
[1:01:41] candidates run and to elect a
[1:01:43] mayor. who may have no
[1:01:45] financial background. We need
[1:01:47] the the chief financial officer.
[1:01:50] to be able to, that's her
[1:01:52] specialty or his specialty. Run
[1:01:54] the financial needs of the city,
[1:01:55] but that's democracy. The
[1:01:58] people of the city are electing.
[1:02:00] the head of their government
[1:02:02] and the head of their
[1:02:04] government is responsible for
[1:02:06] making sure it works and works
[1:02:07] properly and if they don't
[1:02:09] failed and if they don't there, are sanctions to that,
[1:02:13] but you can't take away all of
[1:02:14] the authority of your chief
[1:02:16] executive officer. because then
[1:02:17] you end up with somebody who's
[1:02:19] like a rubber stamping, uh, or
[1:02:21] signing diplomas. A question,
[1:02:23] are you saying that, uh, with
[1:02:26] even in uh the written request
[1:02:30] notwithstanding the CaO should
[1:02:33] be doing this and providing it
[1:02:35] to the mayor and the council,
[1:02:37] so for example, uh, in this
[1:02:39] scenario you just said, uh,
[1:02:41] where the, uh, cafe or someone
[1:02:44] said, this is the financial
[1:02:45] impact and the mayor says, well,
[1:02:47] we're do it anyway, right?
[1:02:49] Um uh, the like, uh, the
[1:02:54] Cafo should be required to
[1:02:57] provide that information. to
[1:03:01] others regardless, right?
[1:03:02] Because then you're getting
[1:03:03] into the situation. I'm like,
[1:03:05] Well, if I don't ask for it, I
[1:03:07] don't have to tell you,, right,
[1:03:10] yeah, but I mean, here's the
[1:03:11] thing, if I don't ask you, you
[1:03:12] don't, I don't have to tell you.
[1:03:14] So none of us, all the new city councilors, if I
[1:03:18] didn't know to ask what the
[1:03:20] financial impact is. I'm just
[1:03:23] saying then we then nobody gets
[1:03:26] it. And that's a bad thing. So
[1:03:28] that so I don't think that
[1:03:29] language, this language does
[1:03:30] that either. We're assuming
[1:03:33] that the CAO is going to do
[1:03:35] everything correctly properly,
[1:03:36] and render the best. outcome
[1:03:39] but that may not always be the
[1:03:41] case. I just like we elected
[1:03:43] somebody who wasn't maybe
[1:03:44] paying attention to the fiscal
[1:03:47] realities of the day. You could have a calf phone.
[1:03:50] That was not that confident
[1:03:53] thecalho could be terminated at
[1:03:54] any point if they're not doing
[1:03:56] their job. So you're, no, the
[1:03:57] mayor cannot. The mayor would
[1:03:59] have to be voted out, but it
[1:04:01] doesn't, when you, when you
[1:04:03] have a Caho that's not.
[1:04:06] correctly providing a financial
[1:04:07] oversight of the city, and we
[1:04:09] are in the first term of the
[1:04:11] mayor, the mayor can turn
[1:04:12] around and say, you're not
[1:04:13] doing your job. I'm terminating
[1:04:15] you. All right, now, I think
[1:04:17] that's important. I think
[1:04:19] that's why this was written and
[1:04:20] that's why the state made it
[1:04:22] clear that the capital has a
[1:04:24] financial oversight of the city.
[1:04:25] So the mayor can say to the
[1:04:27] capital, now, in reality, the
[1:04:28] Capitol sits down with the
[1:04:29] mayor. Here's what it is. The
[1:04:30] mayor says, well, I really
[1:04:32] wanna do this, but it's on the
[1:04:34] Cafo's point to have to approve
[1:04:35] it or do it. And if the CAO is
[1:04:37] wrong, then if the capital's
[1:04:39] wrong, then the capital should
[1:04:40] be terminated. I mean, so
[1:04:42] you've put the city through all
[1:04:43] of that turmoil. when we could
[1:04:47] craft language that basically
[1:04:49] forces them. to work together
[1:04:51] to develop. It's already in
[1:04:52] there I think. They do work
[1:04:54] together because of that they
[1:04:55] work very closely. Yeah, that's
[1:04:58] all, but we get it, but I think
[1:05:00] that there's a, there's a, a, a
[1:05:03] potential to think about making
[1:05:07] sure that these financial
[1:05:08] impact statements are actually
[1:05:09] done right there's been done by
[1:05:12] ordinances of the city council.
[1:05:14] It's not in, but we have, we
[1:05:16] have the capital has to um.
[1:05:21] within um within and I it's
[1:05:23] broken down to so many hours
[1:05:24] after the agenda, but before
[1:05:26] the meeting, provide a
[1:05:28] financial impact statement. It
[1:05:30] may not have, but that's up to
[1:05:33] the copies to say if you I, I, mean, if, if you go on to the
[1:05:38] city website, which I like to
[1:05:41] muted, and you can go on to the
[1:05:43] city website in, as you know,
[1:05:45] click, click. like uh uh a um
[1:05:49] resolution number or the CAFO
[1:05:52] report, which I, I do like to
[1:05:53] cause. I really never got to
[1:05:55] serve with the cafo, you know,
[1:05:56] cause she came in in 2020 and
[1:05:59] oh wait a minute, check in 2019
[1:06:00] towards the very, very end
[1:06:02] maybe. So at the end of the day,
[1:06:05] I think that the the if I'm not
[1:06:09] mistaken, it was like 5 o'clock
[1:06:10] in the afternoon on Monday, and
[1:06:12] in those councils again are put
[1:06:13] into a tough spot that they
[1:06:15] have to now, what if they want
[1:06:16] to call her on something and
[1:06:17] say, well, you know, is this OK?
[1:06:19] That was the planned lateness
[1:06:21] just so that, that was a
[1:06:22] planned late ness just so you
[1:06:23] know she was on vaca she, she
[1:06:26] was on vacation so she had
[1:06:27] notified the council that it
[1:06:29] was coming, but are you saying
[1:06:32] then that that any long term,
[1:06:36] uh, Eddie contract, whatever
[1:06:38] that has, uh, financial impact,
[1:06:41] the CAFOs required to provide a
[1:06:44] preemptive statement that
[1:06:46] provided for every contract, and that goes to all
[1:06:50] the city council in advance.
[1:06:51] Now I don't watch the meetings
[1:06:53] lately, but I will tell you as
[1:06:54] a city councilor, if we had an
[1:06:56] important contract in front of
[1:06:57] us, and we didn't have the
[1:06:59] financial impact we tabled it.
[1:07:01] Sorry, we don't have the
[1:07:02] information. Sorry, Mayor, you
[1:07:03] get out your Cafo. but that's
[1:07:06] not Sharon's the mayor would
[1:07:08] get after the Cat. So on one
[1:07:09] level you don't want the mayor
[1:07:11] to be in charge of that, but
[1:07:12] then you just said you would
[1:07:14] say to the mayor who had
[1:07:15] nothing to do with what the
[1:07:16] person reported or didn't
[1:07:17] report to you. Well, you know,
[1:07:19] Mayor, you get after the mayor,
[1:07:20] but, but plenty of information,
[1:07:22] the CAA reports to the mayor.
[1:07:23] That's right. She works for him.
[1:07:26] OK, so yes, so if he doesn't,
[1:07:28] she doesn't do it, a piece of
[1:07:29] paper. Can I make a
[1:07:31] recommendation? It wassume that
[1:07:34] information is always going to
[1:07:35] be imparted. Now she's a lovely
[1:07:38] person. She works hard, she
[1:07:39] does her job. but I watched the
[1:07:42] council meeting because it had
[1:07:43] a, uh, something I was
[1:07:45] interested in. and she gave the
[1:07:48] counsel asked a question. She
[1:07:49] gave out information to the
[1:07:51] council. The mayor had no idea.
[1:07:53] and it was an important issue
[1:07:57] And so I'm, so I'm just saying
[1:08:00] you somehow they each have
[1:08:04] responsibilities, legal
[1:08:06] responsibilities, and somehow I
[1:08:07] think the charter. should
[1:08:10] compromise with those
[1:08:11] responsibilities are and make
[1:08:12] sure that they are in fact
[1:08:14] working together. excuse me,
[1:08:15] for the betterment of the city.
[1:08:18] But, but if we give this, I'm
[1:08:20] not gonna I'm, this will be the
[1:08:21] end of it. I mean if they give
[1:08:23] disincentive for that in the
[1:08:25] charter and that becomes a
[1:08:27] really difficult issue. So if
[1:08:29] you have a situation with the
[1:08:30] police chief and there's a
[1:08:32] crisis in the city and the
[1:08:33] chief is telling the mayor,
[1:08:35] this is what we have to do. If
[1:08:37] the mayor was going to try to
[1:08:39] overrule the chief without
[1:08:40] having any knowledge of what's
[1:08:42] going on or if we had a
[1:08:44] situation with the DPW with the
[1:08:46] engineer of the city and the
[1:08:48] mayor tries to overrule, then
[1:08:50] there's a problem of American
[1:08:51] can fire them but they can
[1:08:53] appeal. I'm sorry, that's the
[1:08:54] mayor's job. That's true. But
[1:08:55] when you're talking about the
[1:08:57] financial condition of the city.
[1:08:58] Yeah, that's the mayor. There
[1:09:00] was a when my recommendation is
[1:09:02] we next meeting when we review
[1:09:05] chapter 740 chapter 74. It's
[1:09:08] not on the agenda. But if we
[1:09:10] review chapter 74. and review
[1:09:12] the, the definition and
[1:09:13] responsibilities of the CAFO. I
[1:09:15] think it'll make more sense. I
[1:09:17] know what it says. We've read
[1:09:18] it and then we'll go back to
[1:09:19] this if you want. Yeah, let's
[1:09:20] go back to it because
[1:09:22] unfortunately it's not on the
[1:09:23] agenda otherwise I'd say let's
[1:09:24] jump to it. That's all it's an
[1:09:26] important distinction that we
[1:09:27] need to talk about. Exactly,
[1:09:43] yeah So we ' ll so we'll look
[1:09:48] at 6 9 again as we go through
[1:09:55] chapter 7, yeah, but when we go
[1:09:57] through chapter 7, OK. All
[1:09:59] right, uh, is that fair? I'm
[1:10:00] not trying to, OK, all right,
[1:10:02] um, the last item here, section.
[1:10:05] 610 Any changes there No Can I, ask you a question
[1:10:17] because I wasn't at all the
[1:10:19] meetings. Why did you want to
[1:10:22] eliminate section 56. Why, why
[1:10:25] did you want to eliminate the
[1:10:26] one in between 56, about the
[1:10:29] treasurer receiving 5 quotes
[1:10:31] for investment or borrowing.
[1:10:32] Are you going back? We're going
[1:10:33] back to chapter 50 did you move
[1:10:35] it somewhere else? It's right
[1:10:38] in between the one we were
[1:10:39] talking about. 5 became 6,
[1:10:41] right? Chapter 5 became chapter
[1:10:43] 6. No, this is just section 66
[1:10:48] Chief Administrative Officer I
[1:10:49] think we moved it. Oh, you
[1:10:51] moved it. Oh, OK, all right,
[1:10:52] but. let's confirm. Jen will
[1:10:54] remember she's got that memory.
[1:10:56] I only, I only point that out
[1:10:58] because that issue does come up
[1:11:01] just so you know. Yeah there
[1:11:10] are some independent statutory
[1:11:12] authorities that the treasurer
[1:11:13] has on their own. which overlay
[1:11:16] with the caffo has as well
[1:11:18] because of state law, so
[1:11:20] getting quotes for interest
[1:11:22] rates Maybe we didn't lose it I
[1:11:30] thought we struck it because we
[1:11:32] moved it, why would we have
[1:11:33] removed it? I mean, it does
[1:11:40] seem oddly specific in the
[1:11:41] charter, but I thought we'd
[1:11:43] start getting moved it, but. we
[1:11:46] might have found it redundant
[1:11:49] to the Capos section. I don't, remember why we we can
[1:11:52] look. I'll just look. I'll look
[1:11:54] at the Cafo sections that
[1:11:55] you're adding in just to see if
[1:11:57] it it may be covered already. I
[1:12:00] just want to make sure because
[1:12:02] like I said that there there's
[1:12:04] a lot of state statutes that
[1:12:06] speak to. um authority of the
[1:12:09] treasurers and authority to do
[1:12:11] certain things and I sort of
[1:12:12] make sure that's adequately
[1:12:13] folded into the CAFO's
[1:12:15] authority so that there isn't
[1:12:16] some split of authority as to
[1:12:18] that issue because it has come
[1:12:20] up in the past, so, so I guess
[1:12:23] what you're saying what I heard
[1:12:24] you that this needs to be
[1:12:27] somewhere in the charter, OK,
[1:12:28] we'll figure out, OK. I mean
[1:12:30] it's really just an information
[1:12:32] sack. These are sort of
[1:12:34] information sections like. it's
[1:12:36] not saying that they can or
[1:12:37] cannot do it. It's saying they
[1:12:39] need to disclose to the council,
[1:12:40] hey, this is where I'm going
[1:12:42] with our money, but here's the
[1:12:44] five quotes I got so you can
[1:12:46] see this is the best one. So.
[1:12:51] more transparency than anything.
[1:12:53] in my opinion OK. So, at, at
[1:12:57] that we're done with today's
[1:12:59] agenda, um. so obviously we're
[1:13:02] not going to be able to meet
[1:13:05] our goal, which was to have
[1:13:06] this done by the beginning of
[1:13:08] September, but, um, we've got
[1:13:10] to kind of decide our next
[1:13:11] meeting, and I know we get
[1:13:12] vacations, whatever, it's been
[1:13:13] tough. So do we want to look at
[1:13:18] meeting potentially. on
[1:13:20] September 4th, which is after
[1:13:22] Labor Day. and we can reviews
[1:13:26] I'll put chapter 7. Article 7.
[1:13:29] Let me see. 8 and 9. Yeah, 7
[1:13:33] through 9. Double check when I
[1:13:39] get back before. OK, so what
[1:13:44] I'd like to do is, um, if you
[1:13:46] just let me know. and review 6.
[1:13:51] Well, we could always go back.
[1:13:52] We've been doing that. Well, we
[1:13:53] have. Is that all right, Paul?
[1:13:55] That we can go back? OK, yes,
[1:13:56] you can do that. So, um
[1:14:01] everyone look all right for you
[1:14:02] know, the, the, the Thursday
[1:14:04] after Labor Day. Is that all
[1:14:05] right before? 4 Thursday the
[1:14:07] 4th. Yeah. Tuesday. All right,
[1:14:12] we'll, we'll tentatively, um,
[1:14:14] yeah, please just let me know
[1:14:16] September 4th. and then I'll
[1:14:19] get together on the next agenda.
[1:14:21] Great. So it is, uh, anything
[1:14:23] else what we adjourn? Motion to
[1:14:26] adjourn, it's 8:10 p.m. Motion
[1:14:28] to adjour, we need a motion.
[1:14:31] Second, all in favor,
[1:14:33] opposed The ayes have it. This
[1:14:35] meeting is adjourned.