.
>>chair: we will get our
meeting of the infrastructure
and technology committee.
Today is the 15th and I will
welcome all of you here today.
Were going to start with a
quick moment of silence, a
moment of reflection followed
by the pledge led by
commissioner cohen higgins.
>> I pledge allegiance to the
flag of the united states of
america and to the republic for
which it stands, one nation
under GOD indivisible with
liberty and justice for all.
>> thank you so much.
Oday we
have one of our young students
who are part of the youth
engagement program up here with
us so we welcome allegra.
Ll
right.
With that, do we have any
additions, any changes before
we set the agenda.
>> the agenda before you is the
official agenda which includes
the changes in the changes
memo, also item 3d was added to
the agenda.
I'll read the title for the
record.
Resolution authorizing the
county mayor or designee to
execute supplemental agreement
number one between bcc
engineering llc and miami-dade
for construction engineering
and inspection services isd
project number e 20 d pdf w cip
207 20 cei bringing the total
contract amount to $5,467,817
to support the dade land south
intermodal station project
authorizing the county mayor or
designee to execute the same
exercise provisions contained
therein authorizing the use of
peoples transportation plan
bond program funds for this
project added to the five year
implementation plan FEBRUARY
2020 that is 3d.
>>chair: we will going to
reasonable opportunity to be
heard, is there anyone from the
public wishes to speak on any
item?
I do not have any cards but
this is the opportunity, seeing
none reasonable opportunity is
now closed do I have a motion
to set the agenda.
Show that done by acclamation.
And now, we have a few items on
this agenda but before we get
to the discussion
presentations, does anybody
have any questions, would like
to bifurcate any items.
Or ask any questions.
No, yes please commissioner.
>> the item just added to our
agenda 3d I looking at it for
the first time.
O I have a
few questions, it's asking for
an increase in the professional
services agreement.
Y almost
$2 million for a total contract
aggregate of 5.4.
Can you just what this contract
is for?
I know it's for engineering
construction and inspection
services.
Is this particular professional
service provider getting $5.4
million for their professional
services or 5.4 million
inclusive of the actual
construction costs of this
project.
>> deputy director dtp w. This
says as you mentioned for
construction agreement
inspection services tied to
dade land south intermodal.
The actual design build
received supplemental services
earlier this year, this is to
match that for additional scope
added to this project
consisting of charging
infrastructure, modifications
to the bart area and general
modifications around the scope
of the area.
Specific to your question this
is not tied to the
construction, but specific to
the inspection.
This is basically our inspector
in the area, the ones that we
view, all the construction
specs, make sure the
constructors stays on budget
and making sure they review all
the paperwork that comes in.
The allocation, this is for an
additional allocation with a
total allocation for this
supplemental for this project,
I'm sorry.
It's $5.4 million in total for
this vendor.
>>chair: that's what I thought
you were going to say.
I know we do these psa's a lot.
We have a lot of professional
services agreement and without
the conversation on this dais a
number of times when we have
former commissioner higgins who
is professionally an engineer,
she said we need to keep all
these contracted outside expert
engineers on these contracts to
make sure these projects are
built in compliance with our
laws and under the highest
level of safety but when I see
a professional services
agreement for one project
nearing $6 million with an
additional ask of $2 million,
what is if they are doing?
And why do they need an
additional $2 million for the
initial allocation and before
you answer that as far as what
it is they are doing, what is
the term of this psa?
Over what duration of time are
they getting paid 5 and a half
million dollars?
>> over the duration of the
contract, this was for a finite
amount and because of
additional scope added to the
project there are 264 days
added to the overall
construction contract.
This typically matches the
construction contract because
they are and inspection team so
they review all the material
testing, make sure the job is
in accordance to the latest of
safety.
And in addition they review all
the paperwork.
They do the past related to
invoicing.
Those types of management work
that they do for us.
This is work that we don't do
in-house construction
engineering for products of
this magnitude as we typically
contract out.
>>chair: so the term of this
contract with this psa is one,
two years, you said 300
something days there was an
additional scope so roughly two
years of work?
>> total is close to two years
of work.
>>chair: this one service
provider is getting paid 5 and
a half million dollars by
miami-dade county over a 2 year
period under one contract, what
does that work out two, 5 and a
half million over 22 months,
what is the math?
>> 200,000 in change.
>> we are paying one provider
$200,000 a month on one
project.
What's the aggregate value of
this one project.
>> the difference establishes
typically these services when
they are tied to a particular
construction project they fall
within a range of present of
the entire project cost.
>>chair: that's what I thought
you were going to say so that's
kind of my point.
It has been the practice of
miami-dade county to accept
these professional service
agreements based on that
general formula.
If you have a $100 million
project the percentage they
will charge is once the
standard present, once the
average percent.
>> depending on the type of
project and magnitude of the
project for smaller projects
the present is typically
higher, for larger projects is
higher, in this case it's 5%
but this is a time and
materials contract under which
is not a percent based.
We've negotiated the time are
going to spend and materials
they are spending.
Whatever was spent in terms of
the hourly rates of staff
participating and that's how
the additional cost is
developed.
>>chair: so one is the
aggregate cost of this self
date intermodal project since
it's not based on percentage
what is the aggregate value
from your capital improvement
project for this one project.
>> the design build project is
$77 million.
>> they're getting paid five
and a half-million to oversee
consult and make sure
everything is in compliance
that's not based on a
percentage, that's based on
something you negotiated
independently.
>> time and materials so based
on the hours that are estimated
by the vendor we negotiate
those hours and what is said
already precontract is the
hourly rate so the negotiation
between the county and the
vendor is basically on the
hours going to be spent in the
management of the project.
>> originally they said they
would be paid three and a
half-million and they're asking
for now that's what this item
is because they got three of
the half-million, they're
asking us to authorize $2
million in time and materials
which is an hourly calculation
someone came up with that they
said we need another $2 million
to provide the consultation and
services on this contract.
What is the justification for
the additional 1.9?
>> it's an additional 264 days
of work added to the
construction project.
Because of additional scope
that has been added, that
consists of several items
related to electric charging of
the buses, some work in the
station itself and that gives
them dry area, some work where
the actual bus station itself
so there was some additional
scope added to the project.
>>chair: who added to the
scope.
>> from amy's perspective so
it's been added as we look at
this from an operational
perspective with the bart, for
the audio issues.
We've added an additional scope
based on the design of the
project and requests from
operations and in addition we
had coordination with the
different permitting agencies
and there's been new
requirements added as well.
>> the answer on who added to
the scope I know it's the
county but was it the board,
did we authorize any additional
scope or did the department
internally authorized
additional scope.
> the board did authorize
the scope on a supplemental
approved on NOVEMBER 2, 2025,
the additional design scope.
>> but the cost of the
engineering did not accompany
that item, it was just an
additional scope.
>> the construction that
accompanied that item, this is
the supplemental at a company
is whatever work was already
approved for the contractor.
This is our manager on our
side.
This is what accompanies that
additional work approved in
NOVEMBER.
>>chair: I appreciate you
answering my questions in the
way you did and I'll get back
to you, that's number one.
I appreciate you knowing the
answers to my questions.
That is appreciated because we
don't always get back so thank
you for knowing the questions
and being prepared on an item
added the last minute on our
agenda.
The reason I'm asking is I know
we've heard in presentations
and we're going to get the
budget in an hour and and a
half. Regarding the financial
situation of our transportation
budget and how we have a
situation on our hands we will
have to deal with.
When I see items like this
asking for an additional $2
million and I understand we
needed these engineers but it's
pursuant to an expansion and a
scope of work we need to and
I'm going to look forward to
working with you and I know
you're already doing this.
When and why we are expanding
the scope of these projects as
we constantly get requests for
what I like to call bentley
style added extras.
Whatever you want to call it,
bentley style added additions
to projects because this
interest group or that interest
group or this lobbyist.
We can't continue expanding the
scope of our projects in
miami-dade county while the
numbers continue to grow and we
are looking at budget whatever
you want to call it deficit,
shortfalls, gaps.
That we need to figure out a
way to close.
So if you represent to me that
this is absolutely necessary in
this professional services
contracting company needs this
additional $2 million I'm going
to support it because I trust
you and if you say you need if
I'm going to support it but I
will tell you that I plan to
take a deep dive into our
transportation budget which is
at $2 billion.
Look at these professional
service agreements and whether
or not the calculation we've
always used I.E. A percentage
of very large numbers or
whether time and materials is
the calculus that we need to
present because we have to cut
somewhere.
Or maybe everywhere.
Including affectional service
agreements and including
expanding the scope of projects
because I'm just not sure we
can continue to afford it
anymore, thank you.
>>chair: I appreciate you
pulling this item because I was
going to ask questions because
of the late nature of the item
and we didn't fully have a
chance to debrief on it, yes
commissioner lopez.
>>.
>>commissioner lopez: thank you
for your line of questioning
commissioner cohen higgins.
How do we know when a project
should look like from the
get-go, this happens all the
time here.
You go out for a bid and say
this is the project and all of
a sudden the commission is
asked to approve further scopes
of services without money which
I find even crazier.
So back in NOVEMBER they did
not, commission prior to my
joining approved an additional
scope of services without
knowing what it would cost.
I don't know anyone who would
do that in their home.
I certainly wouldn't increase
the cost of a project and say I
approve that without knowing
what it was going to cost me
and whether I could afford it
or not and I keep seeing a
pattern of this that I don't
disagree with you commissioner
that somehow we've just have to
see how often we do this.
What is the pattern that is
seemingly we don't know what
the project is because I will
say this and of course you're
going to hear me say this, in
this state if you want to spend
any more money you have to come
before the commission and tell
us not only why you didn't
figure it out but tell us,
because I don't think it's fair
in the competitive bidding
process either.
Who wouldn't want to bid on a
job that has one scope of
services and once you get it
you get to keep it despite the
fact we made a mistake.
I am I guess I'm still on my
bandwagon from our first
committee meeting where I
continue to see money being
spent without any kind of
consideration for what would be
what I consider a good practice
business.
No business would run their
business like this, they would
be out of business but
apparently we have money to
move around and make decisions
I don't think are very
thoughtful.
So I am putting that on the
record because as we move into
the budget cycle here, I'm
going to really start to look
at these items.
And say I am not ready to
approve things we haven't
thought through carefully from
the very beginning because I
don't think it's a fair
process.
i will bid all day long if I
where a betting vendor and said
I will bid on this and I'm sure
the vendor knows they will need
to expand this because they
know more than we do.
Because they have the
experience.
I wanted to put my comments on
the record as we begin this
budget process because this is
another item that reflects we
are not thoughtful about the
fact we have one pot of money
and we have to be careful how
we spend that money.
This was when I saw the item I
thought here we go again.
>chair: yes commissioner.
>>commissioner gonzalez: I want
to start on a positive note.
As commissioner cohen higgins
said, very impressed sir, thank
you for being serious.
Thank you for being prepared.
It is probably the most
prepared I've ever seen any
director.
And I very much appreciate how
prepared you are.
But now.
>>chair: that was good.
>>commissioner gonzalez: to
echo some of the sentiments of
my colleagues, I have to agree
that for example the original
bid or the scope of work that
was originally approved, what
was that original bid and I
believe it was $3 million but
what was the scope of that work
in this new additional work,
when did it come about that the
bentley style was necessary?
>> let me add a couple points
of clarification which will
help, dave qualification was
done through a planning effort,
there was a scoping completed
and the actual vendor, I want
to make a distinction between
the two contracts, there is a
design builder and this
contract in front of you today.
The design builder bid on a
planning effort and put forward
a cost.
The design builder and has to
design and based on that design
there were certain changes that
were proposed and accepted by
the agency, by the county and 2
as a result of permitting and
new requirements from electric
vehicle charging, additional
scope items added for fire
suppression, those types of
items added from a permitting
perspective from the permitting
agencies we needed to grow the
scope which was not
contemplated in the planning
done for this project several
years ago.
>>commissioner gonzalez: I
don't want to put words in your
mouth but this is where
commissioner lopez is going
because the permitting is put
forward by the county.
I know they are separate
departments, I understand they
are separate departments but it
would only be logical if we are
the ones giving the permitting,
why didn't we factor this in to
the original scope in the first
place?
We are the ones that are
getting the permanent rehab so
that leaves me to how did this
old electric vehicle charging
station come about.
Why exactly didn't we consider
that the first time.
>> the national fire protection
agency codes, we are in the
process of being written at
that point so the new standards
when this project was bid out
the new standards at the
federal level had not been
considered and we are seeing
that through several projects,
not just this project read the
new standards are a little more
rigorous therefore we had to
adjust in several projects in
either electric vehicle
charging is included and the
actual fire suppression related
to the electric vehicle
charging as well.
>> those new federal standards
are amounting to a $2 million
increase.
>> we have other items tied to
the design build accepted by
the agency, we did
modifications from the
standpoint of how we were
aligning the buses or pickup.
Initially there was supposed to
be parallel, we changed to a
seesaw infrastructure there to
a seesaw design, made changes
in terms of the escalator and
elevator, added some
infrastructure as well as a
requirement for purposes of
evacuation so we had to modify
the design accordingly.
>> and why work those
requirements taken into
consideration in the first
place.
>> the initial planning report
done have been reviewed under
the comic that was several
years old and have been
reviewed under the standards
that were available at the
time.
And had been vetted at that
point when this one actually
when forbidding those standards
have been modified and we
needed to add some scope.
>>chair: we appreciate the
information thank you for
calling the item again.
I will say generally speaking
is not just for your
department, generally speaking
when we look at scope having to
do change orders and things of
that nature especially the
scope that's changed by us, you
kind of have to take a final
look but we appreciate the
information you provided so
with that, do we have any other
items, thank you.
I don't think we have anymore,
commissioner.
>>commissioner cohen higgins: I
have questions on 3c.
It has a similar tone.
It's a request for additional
allocated funds.
>>chair: anybody here to speak
on 3c?
For the garbage collection and
disposal services.
Commissioner, your recognized
for a conversation.
>> is the requested allocation
above and beyond what we
previously authorized simply
due to the extension of the
term of this pool?
Is that the root of the request
for the extension?
>> yes commissioner, we are
extending the time for the
contract to allow solid waste
for transitional services
in-house so for that additional
time, the vendors have agree
the same rates that we pay
today to extend.
>> that's what I gathered.
And I understand both of the
vendors are waste management or
waste connections and waste
management does the bulk if not
the entire relief of our waste
management in miami-dade county
but are there no other
companies that can offer these
services to us and I understand
you're making this decision to
extend existing contract rates,
in order to presumably provide
some savings but are there no
other companies that can offer
these services to us?
>> these two are the largest
providers but for anyone to
come in to provide service they
would have to invest a lot of
money upfront in the trucks and
if you do a short-term contract
people generally don't like to
invest in the loaders and
trucks and whatever they need.
>> understand about servicing a
county this size would require
a county that is of substantial
size but the question was are
there no other competitors
other than waste connections.
>> if there are they are
smaller companies out there.
Very small.
>>chair: one was the last time
we done any competitive
procurement in this space?
>> we just did another one a
couple of years that these two
are the largest ones that got
awarded.
I think three or four years
back, I don't member the exact
number we did that another
procurement for services.
>> I'm going to look more
closely at this item because it
has a large dollar amount
associated with it, 62 million
through 2028.
We are currently in 2026, this
item is asking to extend
through 2031.
I guess like I said previously
to maintain existing rates,
what are the rates we are
maintaining?
>> the rates vary by facility
and I have that for example if
and the size of the container
so 30 yd.B3 capacity container
for pickup let's say one day
per week.
The prices are $2366.
So every facility, every
department had stipulated the
locations and a container size
and the frequency so the rate
varies for that.
I have 50, 60 different rates
for facility as well as the
container size and location.
>>chair: where in the item does
it state the current rates are
going to be honored through
2031?
>> I thought we said it
somewhere in the existing terms
and conditions.
>> to clarify if I MAY keeping
it at the same can terms and
conditions versus keeping it
flat do they have an increase
built in the year after year
versus a flat rate?
>> there is a cpi built into
the contract but that would be
based on the rates we have.
Nobody's going to agree to a
five-year contract in today's
market without a cpi.
>>.
>>chair: I appreciate that but
I also think the contract of
this size currently at 62
million and you're asking for
another 20 million, you're
talking about $80 million to
the same exact people without a
competitive procurement process
with a representation on the
microphone that the rates will
be the same but it's not
articulated in the item at
least not that I can see.
'm
wondering why we are not giving
this opportunity to other nies,
that's the question.
i've said before many times on
this microphone regarding our
waste management albums in
miami-dade county and my
extreme concern regarding what
amounts to a monopoly by one
company for the hauling of
waste in miami-dade county
which are these two companies.
It concerns me greatly and
that's just, this is just
departmental work, not the
massive amount of trash they
haul out of this county as a
result of us no longer having
our incinerator.
So my question is why aren't we
trying to I diverse about who
we are using for essential
services even if it's an
amalgamation of smaller
companies that MAY offer us
better prices because currently
we are completely at the mercy
of these two companies for all
our waste management services
in miami dade county and that
gives me great discomfort.
Is there any discussion
happening within the department
about potentially putting this
out to bid?
>> the plan is for solid waste
to bring the services in-house
so they are working on a plan
and equipment testing phase.
>>chair: you are recognized.
>> through the chair I can
that.
The department purchased front
end loaders, loaders allow us
to provide a different service
so we've been doing a pilot for
the last six months account by
account so we can do a full
assessment.
To what namita mentions, the
title container, the type of
service required by each
account varies so we have to do
a full assessment.
When I first got here we had
received those front end
loaders and in the industry it
takes about a year to you and
your and and a half to get
those type of equipment so we
had just received the equipment
and it was sitting so I put the
equipment to use throw a pilot,
we have data so I can evaluate
the productivity of the data,
look at cost of pickup to
determine how we can bring
those services in-house but
it's going to take time because
I have to purchase additional
containers and equipment but I
need to do it by retiring some
equipment and purchasing this
equipment, not purchasing
additional equipment but
retiring one and purchasing
another.
>>commissioner cohen higgins: I
appreciate the question but my
concerns remain on the item,
when I see pools that are
asking to be extended years
before they expire without a
competitive procurement process
with dollar amounts as high as
this it gives me great pause.
Under this item we are
extending was originally
procured in SEPTEMBER 2013.
That's what the item says.
This contract holder has had
the same contract since 2013.
I mean, we have not, I don't
want to advance this item.
I don't want to advance it.
Your two years before the x
expiration of your contract,
the dollar amount is
astronomical, it's an 11 page
item asking for $20 million,
one department is asking for an
allocation of 8 million,
another hcd is asking for
additional allocation of 6
million.
I don't know why we need to do
this right now and I'm not sure
that it's the most financially
responsible thing to do to not
potentially look at other
service providers in this ea.
If you look and find there is
nobody else out there that can
provide this service and give
us alternate pricing I will
accept that but the fact we
haven't looked since 2013 is, I
don't understand.
>> we did that three years ago,
we did do the analysis of
anybody coming in and switching
to the new providers.
If we wanted to do that
analysis again we would be
happy to do it in between now
and if you advance the item in
septembers board we would be
happy to bring that or we can
bring back the item.
>>chair: what's the emergency?
The contract doesn't expire
until 2028, it is 2026, what is
the urgency?
>> we were trying to be
proactive.
>>chair: I appreciate that, I
always want the proactive step
to be taken but I'm not sure if
that's the proposition that
supports this item at this
time.
I would like to defer it, I
want to know why each
department needs the
allocation.
You're representing the rates
are going to be the same,
that's not articulated in the
item.
I think this needs a lot of
review.
If it where a much smaller
dollar amount I would feel more
comfortable but this is a lot
of money going to a company
that has a monopoly over
miami-dade county and I'd like
us to consider alternatives.
If you said it's an emergency,
my departments will suffer I
would advance it but if it
doesn't make a difference to
you I would defer the item.
>> when we came for extension a
few years back you said we
didn't give you enough time.
We are giving you enough time.
If you don't want to advance it
it's fine.
>>chair: just to get these
additional facts and details to
give me greater comfort bus for
spending this money so I moved
to defer this item, thank you
MADAM Chair.
>>chair: yes commissioner
gonzalez.
>>commissioner gonzalez: I
agree with the deferral and if
I could get the director to
come back up.
>> yes, sir.
>>commissioner gonzalez: both
please.
>>chair: you are recognizedr:
you are recognized.
>>commissioner gonzalez: first
of all, namita thank you for
bringing this over because I do
appreciate the fact that now
this has been positive because
we are able to see that two
years from now this could
possibly be necessary.
But the this could possibly be
necessary.
But the director of solid waste
did bring up that you folks are
trying to bring this in-house.
So I understand what you're
saying regarding that although
this expires in 2028 it's
possible we MAY only need 2
more years to bring this
in-house.
But that's also an assumption
because a lot of things can
happen from now till then that
could stop you from being able
to purchase that eing able to
purchase that equipment.
Maybe the program doesn't go
the way we want it to go so
there's a lot of factors for
that to happen.
Right now we are looking at a
three year from the two year
because we're looking 2028
through 2021.
It's very possible, and I know
you said you didn't, you did an
analysis three years ago but
it's possible if we procure
this this year, perhaps, maybe
we can find some cost savings
and maybe even buy more time to
roll out that pilot program
properly.
I do agree with the deferral
but I don't want you to think
you're doing anything that
wasn't asked of you.
I appreciate the fact you
brought this forward and I
think that's why commissioner
cohen higgins said let's get
these things upfront because
now we can properly digest, we
have time to go through the
procurement process and see if
this is the best course rather
than guess.
But I want to thank both of you
for being prepared.
>>chair: I assume we will defer
this until SEPTEMBER committee
and will that give you enough
time to run the analysis and
make sure it's back here with
enough time so we can find a
path forward.
>> we can reach out to the
companies we know and
additionally any small
providers and what ask what it
will take to provide service to
the county, same scope of work
and have the price comparison
ready.
>>chair: if you could give us
the analysis in-house and what
that looks like and what a
realistic timeline could look
like because if we have to
extend the current contract if
that's what the best path
forward looks like at that
point then we also understand
the trajectory of what the
department is looking to do.
>> want to add one more to your
point.
He contracts have
termination provisions.
So let's say solid waste is
able to do it in six months we
could give them termination
notice and bring it in house.
>>chair: termination without
cost.
>> yes.
>>commissioner lopez: I have
two questions, thank you MADAM
Chair. Director, bringing in
in-house would you be able to
identify the savings?
In other words we now currently
have an external vendor doing
it.
Because I'm always looking to
see whether we can achieve
savings and sometimes it's the
exact opposite, we privatized
because we can get better
costs.
But if you feel like it's in
the best interest of the county
to move it internally could you
identify savings.
>> I don't have the answers but
that's why I was doing the
pilot.
Staff have been evaluating
numbers and had data but I
wanted real data so that's why
I told them to put a pilot in
place.
It's been six months so we have
at least six months of data
with 75 accounts so they can
take a look at the
productivity.
The rear loader which we run
takes three people and with a
front end loader is one person
so right there there's
efficiencies I can say we can
provide.
>>commissioner lopez: that will
be helpful when we bring it
back and I made an investment
in equipment factored in.
We purchased equipment to do
the services in-house so that
75 accounts you been running
your pilot on should give us
what were those 75 accounts
costing us with the vendor king
of the garbage and what you're
proposing, that's one.
>> 75 accounts on running that
we were picking up ourselves.
I'm not picking up any of the
accounts from the county.
Those that are in the contract
but that 75 accounts we were
picking up with a different
piece of equipment and
different personnel so I'm
going to be able to evaluate it
if I can pick it up but I'm
also going to do that analysis
as well.
>> we would be happy to hear
you made progress in saving
money by bringing it in the
house.
And then the other thing is I
am unclear.
This analysis we've asked for
and namita, do companies
normally tell you what they
would charge, is it the same as
if we put out an rfp on the
street?
What because if you come to me
and tell me what I can do the
services for, but I don't see
the full scope of services, I
don't see an rfp.
How is it you're going to tell
me it's cheaper without putting
it out to bid.
>> we could do it two ways, by
sharing the scope of work.
Not so much putting it out
formally, we could informally
ask or if you want us to put it
out formally we could do it
fourth-place.
I was going to do it formal
because the ask is to I was
going to ask go out to bid and
mark it.
>> that was going to be my
recommendation.
I don't trust that someone
tells me this is the price
because it never really is that
price.
I think a formal rfp is where
you know one, who is willing to
bid on the job, to is there
anyone else other than these
two vendors that are willing to
do it and I have to believe
there MAY be others that have
come into the market in the
last three years.
Again we owe it to the taxpayer
to do the more fiscally
conservative thing which is to
put everything to bid and see
what comes back because if in
fact it shows no one applies
for that the services they are
proposing in the bid is higher
than we know the answer and its
clear-cut, black and white.
I can then defend my decision
to move forward but I can never
defend it when I'm thinking
what I think versus what I know
that I have in front of me.
Thank you MADAM Chair.
>>.
>>chair: item 3c has been
deferred to the SEPTEMBER
committee.
I'm asking anything else.
>> there was a motion in the
second.
And then the rest.
>>commissioner gonzalez: I want
to make sure because I believe
commissioner lopez also added
that we should procure the
item.
>>chair: the only thing I would
say on that is I think she said
she's going to get us real
numbers and namita if you
explain how you get back and I
don't know if we're going to go
out on the street.
>>commissioner gonzalez: I
think she said we were going to
procure, their line of
questioning was on point, if
we're bringing it in-house you
want to make sure we are saving
money and if were going to get
that analysis and we procure it
it's almost a perfect time to
do a comparison this is what
you were saying, is the perfect
time to do the comparison as to
whether we should bring it
in-house because it's not only
the equipment we purchased, if
I'm not mistaken the director
of solid waste said there is
other equipment that needs to
be purchased for this to happen
so it's almost a perfect time
now that we are deferring it to
procure it and make that cost
analysis and by the way it MAY
be that this is the best
option.
But we won't be sure.
>> if I can get clarity from
the director how you are
getting the real numbers so to
do a full procurement for
however many times we are going
to look to do it could be
potentially problematic because
if we are looking at bring the
immune in-house you're going to
tell these people who bid
sorry, and maybe there's an
invitation to negotiate, maybe,
how are you going to get her
the real numbers by SEPTEMBER.
>> we have to put out a formal
solicitation and it's going to
be an invitation to bid where
they give us their prices so
it's not too onerous that it's
an rfp.
>>chair: that's fine.
Thank you so much, perfect.
This is what happens when you
come after a budget committee.
Yes, apparently I do not.
So through the lens of our
infrastructure committee are
there any other items that we
need to be looking at and by
the way I appreciate the
discussion this morning.
What other items are are we
going to pass the balance of
the agenda and get to the
presentations.
>> move the balance on the
agenda.
>>chair: second by commissioner
gonzales, all in favor.
Show that past and now we get
to the presentations except for
that.
I have a request I will be
making to the chairs office for
item 3b for the award of the
contract due to time
stipulations and constraints,
I'm going to be requesting to
add that to the agenda next
week.
>> we will supply you the memo.
>>chair: with that we will
start with our presentations.
I see some of the young people
in the audience, I want to
thank all of you for being
here.
They are part of the young
youth engagement program.
O
welcome.
So our first presentation is
going to be with the
communications information
technology department, come on
up.
>> good afternoon everyone,
george karl oswald, director
for the communications
information and technology
department.
>>commissioner cohen higgins:
point of order MADAM Chair, MAY
I be recognized briefly.
I don't mean to interrupt at
all even though I know that's
what I'm doing.
We just had a committee hearing
where we had a number of
presentations that visibly look
identical to what you are
putting up on our screen right
now and I don't know if you
watched the previous committee
hearing but I don't have a copy
on my desk of your presentation
it is always helpful if I have
a physical copy so you can
distribute that to us and I'd
appreciate it.
I am going to assume that your
presentation follows the same
format followed at the last
hearing of the other
presentations.
Does your presentation have any
numbers in it?
>> as you see it does not but I
would be happy to discuss.
>>commissioner cohen higgins: I
want you to go through your
presentation but tell me what
your budget is, if you could
share your budget and whether
or not you have met the
administration's charge of not
exceeding 3% growth, that would
be my question for you and
every other director presenting
for you this afternoon.
>> give me one second.
Ou
want commissioner cohen higgins
physical copies?
>>commissioner gonzalez: MADAM
Chair?
Just to piggyback off what
commissioner cohen higgins is
saying, I'm a litigator by
trade and when you go in front
of a judge and you're arguing a
motion you always bring copies
of the motion for opposing
counsel and bring a copy for
the judge.
O just for future
reference, we are not trying to
call you out.
It was the same thing but for
the directors that are going to
present after, if you can have
those copies given to us before
you come up to present, that
would be outstanding.
>> I'm trying to make sure you
get one for each scheduled
during this meeting so we are
passing them around as you
speak.
>> would you mind if I set the
expectation for all the
presentations so you know what
the directors were authorized
to do?
When the budget process started
the mayor told us she would be
releasing her budget on the
15th and she asked each
department director to submit
their request to her.
After those submissions were
made she sent them back to the
departments for revisions
because there were more
requests and proposals and
there were resources.
That has gone on multiple times
so when these items got placed
on the agenda to have a budget
review all the department
directors were given the same
format to follow to describe
what their challenges were,
what their concerns were, what
their budget drivers were about
the exact numbers would be
released by the mayor on the
afternoon of the 15th so some
of the numbers you MAY be
looking for will not be in
these presentations and after
the mayor releases her budget
today then all the department
directors and mayor staff will
make themselves available to
review those exact numbers.
>>commissioner lopez: MADAM
Chair, I have a quick comment
to make.
The three of us that serve on
this committee were also on the
committee this morning where we
had so many questions based on
the presentations which really
didn't help us drill down on
anything.
So although I appreciate very
much deputy mayor your
explanation which we were given
this morning as well, it's kind
of like a perfunctory exercise
we are going through here.
Ou
will tell us about all of this
which we could read ourselves
but it's not going to help us
determine which decisions we
need to make or what the plan
is so I'm not sure how fruitful
this will be.
Given the discussion we had
this morning in the budget
committee which really started
to drill down and it turned out
we spent a good hour asking
questions that we didn't have
anything in our hands that
would help us have what I
considered to be a thoughtful
discussion.
So we MAY repeat the same
things in the same questions
but we wanted you to be aware
when for us it says budget
presentation we are grateful
you're here and thank you for
all this information but none
of it will assist me in making
a decision as to your budget.
Because I don't think any of
them and we started by asking
what's your total budget which
wasn't even on these
presentations.
Everyone scrambled and got us
what the budget was but so that
you already we began to drill
down what percentage of your
budget is general fund.
These were the questions we
were posing and it's somewhat
unfair I think because you're
not really prepared to answer
the questions we have so wanted
to put that on the record.
>> MADAM Chair MAY I respond?
Some of that information is not
available because it's the
mayor's proposed budget that
will give those final
recommendations and what
information they do have their
not authorized to repeat until
she unveils her budget in case
she decides to change anything
from the davies presentations
were started till today so the
directors are able to provide
something they don't have.
>> we understand that and
commissioner cohen higgins.
>>commissioner cohen higgins:
deputy mayor, we already
understand that clearly.
And I think the CHAIRMAN Of the
board was the one that asked
all of us to do these budget
reviews and these analysis in
an effort to work collectively
towards the same goal
obviously.
I'm not sure that going through
these presentations is going to
be particularly helpful because
I'm not sure it accomplishes
what the CHAIRMAN Named for us
to accomplish and during the
previous hearing we discussed
having a workshop of sorts.
Where after the 2:30 release of
our mayor's budget we will then
have the numbers, have a clear
picture of, and I think having
the presentations subsequent to
that release is probably the
most famous do because
everybody's operating with
transparency.
Right now you've represented
the CHAIRMAN's don't know what
their budgets are until 2:30
when the mayor releases it
which is fine but I don't think
that was the CHAIRMAN's
understanding when he asked for
these two be placed on our
agenda so in the interest of
time I don't know that going
through the exercise unless my
colleagues want to do this,
without numbers and deputy
mayor you are digging your
heels in and saying the numbers
will not be released until
2:30.
I'm not sure the interest of
our time is best served going
through each departments aims
aspirations and accomplishments
as we have budget presentations
on our agenda so I'm not sure
is my colleagues want to waive
the presentations or wait for
our workshop we are planning to
have I think going through
these presentations without
actual numbers is not the best
utilization of our time, thank
you MADAM Chair.
>>chair: commissioner gonzales.
>>commissioner gonzalez: I have
to agree and I appreciate the
chief's explanation because I
agree with the deputy mayor's
explanation.
It's not fair to you, it's not
personal to you but I agree
with commissioner cohen higgins
that going through a
presentation talking about how
great the technology department
is and I have no doubt that
it's great, we've met one on
one before, we have no doubt
that it's great and that you're
doing a great job as a director
but for purposes of going
through your budget and
analyzing what can and should
not be cut this perhaps is
premature.
It might be a good idea to
waive or ask commissioner cohen
higgins is suggesting maybe we
can defer this until after.
>>commissioner cohen higgins:
because I wasn't there were
looking to have a workshop, is
that what we are going to
schedule?
>> our committee decided we
would not recess in AUGUST.
Our committee will take as long
as it takes to go through every
budget because what we
discovered was
they were asked to grow
the budgets by 3% and we
said we're pretty sure if
we work with the
administration, we will
find ways in which we walk
away and say we actually
saved money, we didn't
grow government.
So that was the decision
in this morning's budget
that we would not recess.
We would come back in
AUGUST and begin to drill
down on every department
budget.
>> Chair Steinberg: well,
I would like to be part of
that.
I guess hearing from three
of the board members right
now, I think it's clear
they want to waive the
presentations to an AUGUST
meeting for I guess a more
in-depth budget
discussion.
I know yesterday our
committee, we had these
great presentations, but
they were really an
abstract.
So at the end it would've
been nice to have some
budget numbers with them.
So while I do appreciate
everybody's time and
effort, I think this
committee is now taking
the direction that they
would like to postpone.
Any sort of presentation
until after the budget is
rolled out so that they
can ook at it with that
lens and make sure that --
by the way, we support our
department in their
endeavors as well.
>> just to piggyback, for
those budget, for those
presentations, since the I
don't think any of us are
expecting anybody to just
read off a screen.
For those presentations,
you know, we had -- come
up and I think that's the
level of expectation
everyone will have don't
just come up and read.
Know your numbers because
you are a highly capable
director, which is the
equivalent of a C.E.O. Of
a multimillion dollar
organization.
So when you do come, when
you do come, come prepared
to know your numbers, know
your departments, and know
exactly how to defend
every penny that you're
asking for.
Am I correct?
>> MADAM Chair, I also
wanted to remind everyone
that I've asked all the
department directors, and
I'll do it again here.
I would like a schedule of
your vacancies with the
aging reports.
And I would further like
-- what occurred this
morning was a discussion
around telling me that you
got rid of 50 staff
members, but in fact, what
happened was some left the
county and some, because
of their employment
rights, were actually
transferred into another
department.
O that's not
a savings.
We're gonna be really
clear about every step
we're taking.
We want the public to
understand exactly what
we're doing to the other
thing we also asked is if
you're moving any of your
people or services to a
constitutional officer,
that constitutional
officer is gonna come back
and asked me for that
money.
That's net zero savings.
It's just going from us to
them.
I want everyone to
understand that I expect
truth in budgeting and
I've been very clear about
that from the beginning.
We have to be able to say
what is really going on
without sort of skimming
over it because most often
I hear the complaint if
they said they got rid of
those jobs, but I know a
person is working in
another department in
another role in another
department.
So we want to be sure we
explain why we have had to
move people to another
department because they've
had employment rights, and
what does that mean?
Because the general public
has no idea what that
means.
Zero.
So be prepared when you,
and we have your numbers
before you that we expect
to be able to talk about
every penny in your budget
and for you to start
thinking if I had to get
rid of it, if I didn't
grow, if I just stayed,
you know, because we do
zero-based budgeting in
the state.
You don't tell me you're
going to grow anything.
You're in a start with
what you had and then tell
me, be prepared to tell me
if you get, if you reduce
this, what would happen?
Because that's the part
nobody talks about either.
So you know, because
that's exactly the
question I asked 12
secretaries at the state.
If I tell you to reduce
this line item, what will
happen.
What services have to go?
Where can you find
savings?
And let me tell you
something.
If you can find a 3%
savings in the state that
has, you know, 10 times
the budget that we have
here, I'm pretty sure we
can find savings and we're
committed, our budget
committee is committed to
working with the
administration to help do
that in partnership
because that's what we
think we can both do.
So I just -- that's just a
word to the wise of what
we will be looking at.
He kind of discussions
that we had this morning.
> Chair Steinberg: all
right.
Thank you.
Any other comments or
questions from the dais?
Yes?
>> MADAM Chair, just
quickly to provide
clarification.
I think it's the
intention, I hope it's the
intention, I'm sure it's
the intention that these
budget hearings that we
will have an AUGUST is
open and welcome to all
commissioners, more like a
committee of the whole
where we engage in that
deep dive that we have
been talking about.
So I look forward to all
of our colleagues
participating in that, and
I see our CHAIRWOMAN
Nodding her head, so that
is the confirmation I was
looking for.
Thank you, MADAM CHAIRMAN.
>> Chair Steinberg:
debbie numerically
>> MADAM CHAIRMAN, we are
thankful for the clear
direction.
Commissioner lopez, I'll
warn you in advance, we
have been plagiarizing
your theme and I think
I've heard the mayor say
it three times yesterday,
so I think it stuck.
I would like to point out
to you that the mayor did
put out a memo on solid
waste.
I think exactly like what
you want.
If we don't do this,
what's the consequent is?
We gave it to you.
We did the same thing on
water and sewer rates,
which we haven't even
addressed yet, but is our
intention to follow your
mantra of truth in
budgeting and whatever we
do here's the consequences
pro or con.
>> Chair Steinberg: and
on that note, our meeting
is adjourned.
Thank you.