[0:13] Should we
[0:14] call our session to order?
[0:18] at
[0:19] 4:01.
[0:22] Um
[0:24] so for everyone here, there's we have
[0:27] two people absent, so we don't have our
[0:30] normal chair. And I just want to I mean
[0:32] as we look at our agenda, I wondered, do
[0:34] we want to like assign roles and make
[0:36] one of us a chair for the day and one
[0:38] person a note taker or how do we want to
[0:40] analyze to be chair?
[0:42] Thanks.
[0:43] I can second Never mind. All right. I
[0:45] will second I will do it.
[0:48] Um
[0:50] and then how do we want to do notes?
[0:52] I'll
[0:53] do notes.
[0:57] All right. So then um
[1:00] do we have a motion to approve our
[1:01] agenda?
[1:03] I think motion to approve it. I'll
[1:04] second that.
[1:06] So then we're good. And
[1:07] all in favor?
[1:09] Yeah. I.
[1:11] Any opposed?
[1:12] Any absence?
[1:14] So the first thing on our agenda is
[1:16] Well, and welcome everyone who's joining
[1:18] us online. See
[1:19] Susan Clark and
[1:21] Bill Price. I hope I get your name
[1:23] right. You like I'm
[1:24] not pronouncing you right, but I'll do
[1:26] my best.
[1:28] And a few people also.
[1:30] So
[1:32] lessons learned.
[1:34] Date and content.
[1:36] Um
[1:37] do we want to just go around the room
[1:39] and
[1:41] share thoughts on
[1:43] I know, I think this is to I could take,
[1:45] right? Oh, we're setting a session for
[1:47] that. Oh, much better.
[1:51] So Well, then my question on that is
[1:55] Susan, I know you're planning you want
[1:57] to do a
[1:59] something along these lines, too. And
[2:01] I'm wondering, are we should we try to
[2:03] do something together or should it be
[2:04] separate or what what's the most
[2:06] effective way to sort of get everyone's
[2:08] ideas out?
[2:10] Yeah, great question. And um
[2:13] yeah, I was wondering the same thing. I feel like um
[2:18] there's [snorts]
[2:19] a there's a subset, which is what the
[2:22] budget committee does, which is create
[2:23] the budget
[2:25] or work on the budget or review the
[2:27] budget. Um and there there's a um I feel
[2:31] like the
[2:32] sort of the defining what the question
[2:34] is, what is it that we want to learn
[2:35] from is is sort of the the the what to
[2:38] do at this moment. And so um if if if
[2:42] one question is how did um creating the
[2:46] budget or how did the budget process go
[2:49] this
[2:50] annual cycle? What lessons did we learn
[2:53] from the hiccups that we that we had or
[2:56] whatever however you want to define
[2:59] what we just went through. Um lessons
[3:02] learned from the from the budget cycle.
[3:04] Um and then um
[3:06] uh
[3:07] and I think that's a subset of a bigger
[3:10] question of sort of like how Middlesex
[3:12] makes um its
[3:15] the the the the sort of town meeting and
[3:17] democracy throughout the year question,
[3:19] which has to do with the budget, but it
[3:21] also has to do with other stuff that we
[3:22] do. Um
[3:25] So, I feel like your group's question is
[3:29] the first fundamental lessons learned
[3:33] and I would like to attend and listen
[3:35] and maybe listen for trends that that
[3:38] would help me maybe frame with the
[3:40] solutions committee um a bigger question
[3:43] about what happens throughout the year.
[3:45] Well, that
[3:46] makes sense to me that we have sort of a
[3:49] slightly narrower focus.
[3:51] Um and I'm wondering like
[3:54] part of me thinks that one thing we need
[3:56] to do is really clarify
[3:58] the budget committee's role compared to
[4:00] the select board's role because I think
[4:02] we, you know, we're largely an advisory
[4:04] committee. There's very little that we
[4:07] very little authority we have at all.
[4:09] And so
[4:10] and it's not even so much an authority
[4:12] question I think as a
[4:14] you know, if we kind of talk through
[4:15] this
[4:16] we collect departmental budgets from the
[4:18] departmental heads, you know,
[4:20] we can talk about whether or not we do
[4:21] that effectively at 400% or not.
[4:24] And then we review it, look at trends,
[4:27] history,
[4:29] look at the overall increase, try to get
[4:31] something that we think would be
[4:32] valuable to the select board. But that's
[4:33] really our scope is collating, reviewing
[4:36] it, and recommend it.
[4:38] >> Well, and I think we should be really
[4:39] clear like which parts of that process
[4:42] does the budget committee
[4:44] facilitate and take ownership over and
[4:46] which parts just start with the select
[4:48] board because I mean I've caught myself
[4:50] a few times like part of this might be
[4:51] just cuz it's shifted over the years
[4:53] that you know,
[4:55] sometimes in the past
[4:57] departments have presented their budgets
[4:59] to the select board versus the budget
[5:02] committee. And so to me that's part of
[5:04] the conversation is just like let's make
[5:05] sure we're all clear where are those
[5:07] roles so that if there's room for
[5:09] improvement, we we know who's going to
[5:10] work on improving, you know, or where or
[5:12] what we want to shift. Yeah, I mean like
[5:14] my general sense was that I had I had
[5:16] assumed the lessons learned was more
[5:17] that that sort of second topic or the
[5:19] overall bell sex. I think we can certainly have a session where we
[5:24] just talk about
[5:25] hey, what are all the block, you know,
[5:27] steps we need to take during budget
[5:29] creation. I think that'll be valuable
[5:30] for us just during a normal right right.
[5:32] And that might be the the session that
[5:33] we have.
[5:34] Um,
[5:35] but I I agree with you cuz
[5:37] I don't think the budget committee
[5:38] should own figuring out the
[5:41] who does the, you know, does the select
[5:43] board do it? Do we do it? Like I really
[5:44] think that there's one thing that I
[5:46] think we
[5:47] um, have to do which is recommend a
[5:49] budget or or expected to do. We
[5:51] recommend the budget to the select
[5:52] board. But beyond that, the select board
[5:55] I think should really provide guidance.
[5:57] Yeah, I mean there's there's definitely
[5:59] like the capital planning piece which
[6:00] we've always taken
[6:02] which since it's inception is like a
[6:04] thing in Middle sex, the budget
[6:06] committee has taken a pretty leading
[6:07] role in and then
[6:10] Yeah, I mean my impression is even the
[6:12] way
[6:14] the budget process is done is it's like
[6:16] we don't necessarily recommend the
[6:18] budget so much as make recommendations
[6:20] about the budget is is how I feel like
[6:23] we've done it and maybe that's wrong.
[6:24] All I meant [laughter] was recommend
[6:25] something to the select board like we
[6:27] present Totally. We make recommendations
[6:28] on the budget that's being developed by
[6:30] the select board with our input as the
[6:32] process goes. Yeah. So anyways,
[6:34] I guess my ultimate question is
[6:37] should we be trying to have this lessons
[6:39] learned session as just a
[6:42] budget committee meeting or should we be
[6:45] including some input from the select
[6:47] board cuz ultimately they're like
[6:49] they're the ones who if if if they don't
[6:50] like what we're suggesting,
[6:52] they can tell us we want the budget
[6:53] committee to do something else, I think.
[6:56] Question. Isn't it more like a process
[7:00] that needs to be designed or maintained
[7:03] or cur
[7:04] Yeah, I think it needs to be clarified
[7:06] and and sort of written down and more
[7:08] with more detail than we've ever had
[7:09] that I know of.
[7:11] And that's where I I was thinking that
[7:12] maybe we need some select board input
[7:14] although maybe we come up with our
[7:15] proposal. I I definitely think So I
[7:18] think I I think Bill
[7:20] I think
[7:21] probably everyone would agree that it
[7:23] would be good to have a documented
[7:24] process. Or at least that's my opinion
[7:26] and I don't please disagree but I agree.
[7:29] Ultimately I think what Elias and and
[7:31] are are talking about is is really the
[7:33] select board should probably define the
[7:35] process that they expect the budget
[7:37] committee to follow. We can certainly
[7:39] propose something
[7:41] but I just want to be careful I think to
[7:42] this this idea of the year like we don't
[7:44] want to say we do something and then
[7:47] have that become a point of contention.
[7:49] You know, should it be us, should it be
[7:49] someone else? So So maybe what we do is
[7:52] we have like a lessons learned session or whatever we
[7:55] want to call it where we're writing down
[7:57] the process that we understand it is
[8:00] [clears throat] and even maybe we're
[8:01] making recommendations of how we want it
[8:03] to be if it hasn't been that way and
[8:05] we're then presenting that to the select
[8:07] board.
[8:08] And then they decide. And I think that's
[8:10] a great time to invite people who think
[8:13] that they you know have
[8:15] criticisms constructive or otherwise
[8:16] about the process so that we can make
[8:17] sure we incorporate that.
[8:19] >> Exactly. Yeah. Okay, cool. So um
[8:22] date. I think we covered some of the
[8:24] content of that.
[8:26] I think we sort of laid out what we want
[8:28] to discuss at the meeting. When do we
[8:30] want to do this?
[8:31] I don't know if you saw
[8:33] this
[8:35] uh that Mark had sent in kind of his
[8:37] topics. Oh, I haven't I was just
[8:39] wondering if before the meeting started
[8:40] to know what he
[8:41] Please share.
[8:43] He just
[8:44] under like the lessons learned I think
[8:46] he wanted to add kind of his opinions
[8:50] and for attendees he had put SB I'm
[8:52] assuming for select board, budget
[8:54] committee and public
[8:56] and he had also said maybe June
[8:59] um
[9:00] for like when to hold it before before
[9:02] people forget their feedback. I do think
[9:04] it would be helpful for me to understand
[9:08] the process better um
[9:11] all around and I do think that the
[9:13] select board has to be
[9:16] somewhat involved, right? Because I feel
[9:18] like they are determining it and I think
[9:21] that since I've been on the budget
[9:23] committee, you know, that's the
[9:25] direction we get, right? Like they're
[9:27] like I want to you know do this or do
[9:29] that and a lot of times it's
[9:30] it it's it's been a little confusing to
[9:33] me
[9:34] because at some point the treasurer is
[9:36] involved, right? Like the treasurer is doing adding, removing, but then at
[9:41] some point Dorinda was involved in
[9:44] adding and removing and she wasn't on
[9:46] the budget committee at that point. So I
[9:48] think there's people involved too. So to
[9:50] me it's a little confusing the process.
[9:53] Um so I think it would be good to kind
[9:56] of know expectations and all of that.
[9:59] Yeah. A written document of the process
[10:02] would be a great outcome for this.
[10:05] And just
[10:06] so from from my perspective, I think
[10:08] Dorinda was treasurer at one point. She
[10:11] I think she's assisted and so at least
[10:13] from my perspective when she's been
[10:14] doing that is it's often been her
[10:16] stepping into assist as treasurer. But
[10:18] like it would make so much sense if we
[10:20] clarified that like the treasurer does
[10:22] these parts of this process.
[10:23] >> So
[10:24] the So the budget committee is basically
[10:26] an advisory committee. So basically what
[10:29] happens is we keep we maintain the Excel
[10:32] spreadsheet and we we monitor it, we the
[10:35] new budget stuff comes in, the new
[10:36] figures are coming in and we're
[10:38] constantly adding. This year usually the
[10:41] treasurer is the respon you know, does
[10:42] the initial inputting of information.
[10:45] And what happens is this year I was
[10:47] doing the town report. So I had to let
[10:50] Dorinda assist me in doing the budget
[10:52] because I did was it town report, town
[10:54] meeting, there just wasn't any wiggle
[10:56] room to do the budget. Um so she offered
[10:59] to come in and help with that. So
[11:00] usually and then what happens is, you
[11:02] know, we we every single like the part
[11:05] of like rec
[11:06] uh highway, everybody presents their own
[11:08] budgets and works on their own budgets.
[11:10] And then you guys come in and look at
[11:11] things and say,
[11:13] you know, hey, what do you think about
[11:14] shaving this or you know, and you're also adding your capital planning
[11:18] information into the budget uh and what
[11:21] your thoughts are. And then we come
[11:24] together as a a whole in the in in one
[11:27] of the selectboard meetings with
[11:29] everybody giving their input and
[11:31] suggestions. And then the select board
[11:33] says, yes or no, or shave this, or add
[11:35] this, or do whatever when you guys are
[11:38] present with the treasurer and
[11:41] the budget committee and the select
[11:43] board all together and the department
[11:44] heads.
[11:46] Uh like Eric does the highway, he does
[11:48] the fire department, you know, um
[11:51] here it's like we know I I basically
[11:53] enter things based on contracts or based
[11:55] on um appropriations like we you know we
[11:57] have to pay the monthly your treasurers.
[12:00] We have to pay them but that's they
[12:02] calculate those fees, we don't. Um
[12:05] contracts with the ambulance service. We
[12:07] get those kind of things and then as
[12:08] they come in I put them in a folder
[12:11] um as people are working on those
[12:12] numbers and I I keep track of that and
[12:15] so then when it comes time to input it
[12:16] then we have supporting documentation
[12:18] that tells us
[12:19] um same thing with health insurance and
[12:21] any kind of benefits that we have.
[12:24] Um if anything comes in for the
[12:26] electricity, you know, like this year we
[12:27] had a 3% increase is what they
[12:29] anticipated. Um and that goes in the
[12:31] folder. Um
[12:33] we just like to keep all the backup that
[12:35] we can
[12:36] that supports that Excel spreadsheet.
[12:38] And then when we're in the meetings
[12:41] usually it's like, okay, we're going to
[12:42] take this out, we're going to add this,
[12:44] and then we're making those adjustments,
[12:45] we come back, we do the Excel
[12:46] spreadsheet again, and then send it and
[12:48] everybody makes those adjustments and
[12:50] makes the suggestions because you got
[12:51] you know everybody wants to come
[12:52] together not
[12:54] you know, to have that lower percentage
[12:55] rate for the budget.
[12:57] Does that help with what you guys
[13:01] Yeah, I mean that all aligns with my
[13:02] understanding and I guess I think what
[13:04] we're talking about is like let's get
[13:05] that written down so that anybody who
[13:07] wants to join our like Middlesex's
[13:09] budgeting process
[13:11] has some grounding in in those like I
[13:13] mean I would love to make sure that
[13:15] the process is written down and we have
[13:17] some timelines in there. So people might
[13:18] know like, oh, if I want to have like a
[13:20] big impact on shifting this budget, I
[13:22] need to show up at this time, not you
[13:25] know, if I show up at town meeting day
[13:27] it's going to be really hard to make the
[13:29] changes I want. Something like that.
[13:30] Right. And usually what happens with everybody putting together and
[13:34] pulling together their budget
[13:35] information, what happens is
[13:37] we basically go on Okay, what happened
[13:40] the year before? You know, what who who
[13:43] you know, when did highway do theirs or
[13:45] when did so-and-so do theirs?
[13:48] Just to kind of come together and say
[13:50] this is you know, at this select board
[13:52] meeting the highway department needs to
[13:54] have their stuff. Oh, at this select
[13:56] board meeting, you know, and you know,
[13:58] Eric would do like the fire department
[14:00] and the highway department at the exact
[14:01] same time.
[14:03] Okay. Ben, you Do you want to say
[14:05] something? I have Susan you had your
[14:06] hand up. Yeah, I have Susan. I think
[14:08] almost some of this might be the the
[14:09] actual content we want to talk about
[14:11] during the lessons learned. Yeah.
[14:14] Because you know, my two cents that sort
[14:16] of a preview is that I I agree with what
[14:18] Elias said. I think but I I
[14:20] [clears throat] have motivation I think
[14:21] for it is
[14:22] we want a process that's that's roughly
[14:25] written down and timelines just so that
[14:27] there's everyone feels that there's
[14:29] transparency. And my observation
[14:31] >> I I totally agree 100% because I know you Cheryl. Yeah.
[14:36] I mean I think everything in this
[14:38] place needs a procedure manual, a
[14:40] policy. They need to have everything to
[14:42] where there's no questions and you can
[14:44] go to that piece of paper and answer get
[14:46] your answers. Yeah, I I was just
[14:48] speaking to I think some of you know,
[14:49] even and I hear how Sam describes
[14:51] there's confusion about it. When I
[14:53] joined the budget committee, I think
[14:54] there's a tendency for people to be
[14:55] like, "Okay, well, I normally do this. I
[14:57] did this last year. I'll go off and do
[14:59] this." And if you don't have historical
[15:01] context, then you don't know they're
[15:02] going off and doing that. Can feel like
[15:04] you can't get involved and you know,
[15:06] that's probably one of the things that
[15:07] we want to avoid going forward. Yeah.
[15:09] Looks like a black box of sorts. Sam and
[15:11] I'm going back to
[15:12] >> her hand up.
[15:14] Susan had her hand up first.
[15:15] >> lips.
[15:17] Uh yeah, um that this all sounds great.
[15:20] And um I would just add that it seems
[15:22] like this is I mean it the opportunity
[15:24] here is also to look at that timeline
[15:26] and say, "Ooh, where are the points
[15:29] where we could actually even possibly um
[15:33] make some of those meetings
[15:34] forward-facing. Um, sort of adjust the
[15:37] way the um the conversation happens at,
[15:40] you know, one or two junctures where
[15:42] it's really it's it that that particular
[15:44] meeting is more publicized, maybe it's
[15:46] held in a in a bigger place, um and it's
[15:49] maybe facilitated in a way that actually
[15:51] asks for um questions and public, you
[15:54] know, guidance and things like that.
[15:56] Maybe I don't know if that happens in,
[15:58] you know, one in September and one in
[15:59] January or only one in January, but
[16:01] something where it's not only the people
[16:04] who are keeping their eye on on what's
[16:06] going on in the budget committee, but
[16:08] actually everybody gets invited in for,
[16:10] you know, for one moment. If if you feel
[16:13] like that would um it to me it that
[16:15] would be one possibility that might
[16:17] emerge when we um ask for lessons
[16:20] learned is, "Oh, we could use some of
[16:21] that."
[16:23] Maybe not, too, but
[16:27] Um
[16:28] comment You got a minute? Bill here.
[16:30] >> Yes, please.
[16:32] Yeah, I uh my comment is in line with uh
[16:35] Susan in the fact that you need to
[16:38] possibly because of everybody's jumping
[16:41] at the end when it's all finished, the
[16:43] public is
[16:46] jumping individually and making life
[16:48] miserable for everybody because you
[16:50] can't just change one item
[16:52] at the end.
[16:54] Consider possibly like
[16:57] Susan said, was to add a space for
[17:00] before it's getting really developed and
[17:02] solidified to
[17:05] let [clears throat] the public, if they
[17:06] want to, see what happens because I just
[17:09] don't think many understand that many of
[17:11] these sites or items are standards. You
[17:16] need it every year. It's not nothing
[17:18] It's not rocket science. You know, if
[17:21] you need 200 ton of stone, you need 40
[17:24] 10-ft lengths of
[17:25] this and that. All we're going to do is
[17:28] turn around and say the price has
[17:30] changed. We still need the same
[17:33] cuz I look at it as more in a quantity
[17:35] effect. That's more uh controllable than
[17:38] it is price because
[17:40] as it's say pavement. Pavement when I
[17:42] was paving was $50 a ton. Now it's $100
[17:46] a ton. We still need 2,000 tons.
[17:49] It doubled in price. We'll got to figure
[17:51] out uh
[17:53] a way of getting that number, not cut
[17:55] the quantity because that's what the
[17:57] state's been doing all this time is
[17:59] cutting the quantity. Now they're doing
[18:00] half as much as they've done
[18:03] in 15 years, 10 years really.
[18:07] So, I just put a thought to say
[18:10] uh find points in your development that
[18:13] adds
[18:14] openings for the public, you know, uh to allow them to stick their nose in
[18:21] it, see it, and comment if they want to,
[18:23] but they would see more constructively
[18:26] that at the end they can't help you, you
[18:29] can't help them trying to nickel dime
[18:32] something when
[18:33] we need it and the price went up. I'm
[18:35] sorry. You pay you get You get what you get and
[18:39] you got to pay for what it is and that's
[18:41] the way it is.
[18:45] So, in terms of date,
[18:48] we have one suggestion for June.
[18:51] I know our our regular June meeting is
[18:53] the 16th.
[18:55] Um
[18:57] I'm pretty sure the district gets out of
[18:59] school the 17th, so that might I don't
[19:01] know if that's a good time or a bad time
[19:03] for people. What do What do you
[19:05] What do we think?
[19:08] Yeah, I I think that the select board's
[19:10] going to be important to attend
[19:13] Normally our meetings are right uh
[19:15] before there, so hopefully that would
[19:16] work.
[19:18] Um
[19:19] but I think we probably have to devote
[19:20] the entire meeting to the topic. Agreed.
[19:22] And June it seems like a fine time for
[19:24] that.
[19:24] >> Yeah, cuz we can definitely take a
[19:25] little break then, right?
[19:27] Okay, so let's plan on the 16th unless
[19:29] we learn that there's a problem with
[19:31] that.
[19:37] Okay. Um
[19:39] next we've got capital spending
[19:42] uh 2028 through 2037.
[19:45] Um
[19:48] give me a shout if I'm if Mark's got
[19:50] comments we need to talk about, but
[19:51] first is
[19:54] estimated 3.15
[19:57] million.
[19:59] This is 2028 through 2037.
[20:01] Yeah, that's the whole 2028 through
[20:03] 2037. Is that
[20:05] what 3.5 million is? 3.15 500,000. Okay.
[20:09] Um
[20:10] All right, so Mark says well, he So all
[20:13] right, let's just read through these.
[20:14] Fire station 11k,
[20:16] uh fire vehicles 1.25 million. That's in
[20:19] 2030, 2033, 2034.
[20:23] Public works 1.24 million. That's 2028
[20:27] through 2030 and then 2032 and then 2032
[20:30] through 2037.
[20:33] And paving 650k,
[20:36] we contribute 20% or 130k.
[20:40] So Mark is suggesting that we
[20:43] continue to separately fund the paving
[20:45] fund versus other
[20:48] um
[20:48] improvements and that approximately
[20:52] 3 million is estimated over the next
[20:55] decade as we saw.
[21:00] He's wondering about funding a third of
[21:01] it. Is that what I'm reading?
[21:03] So increasing the asset equipment
[21:05] contribution from 50 to 100 K,
[21:08] increasing the paving fund contribution
[21:09] from 30 to 50.
[21:13] Uh, but we won't have enough for our 20%
[21:16] share of Shady Rail in 2028. Yeah.
[21:19] Cuz the price tag's too high.
[21:22] And then,
[21:23] you know, restoring the town building
[21:25] fund.
[21:28] And that's a 90,000 increase for the
[21:31] capital fund or 4% budget increase.
[21:34] And so,
[21:36] I mean, one My my take personally is
[21:39] that
[21:40] I think we should be funding more
[21:42] capital improvements, but I also think
[21:44] we need to hear from the from the town
[21:46] to make sure that that's in line because
[21:48] I know a 4% budget increase is not Yeah.
[21:50] Nothing to laugh at, especially with
[21:52] that's before any of the yearly
[21:54] increases we'll see.
[21:57] Any thoughts, comments?
[22:05] I just wanted to defer to see if you
[22:06] have comments, Anne. Um,
[22:08] I mean, I I do think it's important to
[22:10] fund them. You know, I don't
[22:14] It sounds like the goal of the capital
[22:16] spending is to not pay for it in full,
[22:20] right? To have a percentage down.
[22:24] That's the understanding, right? Um, The
[22:27] way I look at it is the ability to
[22:30] stabilize our tax rate in terms of not
[22:33] having one year where we have to buy a
[22:34] fire truck. Right. It shoots our tax
[22:36] rate up, and then other years it goes
[22:38] down. So, we we just have are able to be
[22:40] more stable is that is how I think of
[22:42] it, which means we have to put money
[22:43] into those funds so that they have money
[22:46] to do that. Um,
[22:48] and yeah, I mean, I think it to me it's
[22:50] very much a
[22:52] town discussion, and this is one area
[22:54] where it'd be great to get more feedback
[22:55] is like, what do you think?
[22:57] >> accurate? Are these accurate numbers as
[23:00] of like right now for these costs? cuz I
[23:02] know everything obviously goes up. Are
[23:05] these like accurate figures for what
[23:07] these could be cuz I know
[23:09] we've talked about that a little bit how
[23:11] prices obviously go up year to year and
[23:13] I don't know the last time we've gotten
[23:16] accurate
[23:18] like replacement cost of some of this
[23:19] stuff. So I think that might make it a little higher number.
[23:25] I think the 28 and the 30 have been
[23:28] updated but I I don't think that 20 and
[23:30] you know the later years have. Like we I
[23:33] mean those just get set at whatever we
[23:34] set the most recent year we updated but
[23:37] obviously those will go up by you know 5
[23:39] 10% depending how far out they are.
[23:42] The other thing is that I'm willing to
[23:44] bet any amount of money that over the
[23:46] next 9 years the fire station is going
[23:48] to take more than 11k.
[23:51] >> [laughter]
[23:52] >> But I think I think it's important I
[23:53] think we've brought up two important
[23:54] points. One is like there's the actual
[23:56] numbers like what do we expect stuff
[23:58] will cost the other is
[24:01] it is the town aligned on how much of
[24:04] whatever this is we should be refunding.
[24:06] Yeah and and I think even
[24:09] we should get alignment on is it
[24:11] important for people to have stable tax
[24:13] bills. Cuz cuz I truly think that's I think why we do this whole
[24:17] process is that no one wants to be
[24:18] surprised at the end of the year that
[24:21] you know even if your tax bill is
[24:22] suddenly lower like that's still not
[24:23] great but you want to just be able to
[24:25] plan on at least
[24:29] uh
[24:30] But I I think I think those are the sort
[24:31] of the questions. I think two topics
[24:33] there. One is just the numbers are the
[24:35] numbers good and what's the mix. The
[24:37] other is
[24:38] how how does the town think we should be
[24:40] handling these expenses?
[24:42] Oh.
[24:43] I I can take an action item to just like
[24:45] survey what other towns do and see if
[24:47] there's any literature on like what best
[24:49] practices are but that's that'll just be
[24:50] recommendations sort of Yeah.
[24:54] Would we want to do some type of survey
[24:57] like with our people in this town to see
[24:59] what they want, like what You know what
[25:01] I mean? To get their feedback.
[25:04] I mean, this is like the most amount of
[25:05] people we've gotten in a budget meeting,
[25:07] but like cuz we don't really get a lot
[25:08] of people here, but to get because it I
[25:12] think it does make sense to be funding
[25:15] these things, but I'm one person. Like
[25:17] you said, I think it's important to get
[25:20] some feedback from people.
[25:21] >> Yeah, my take is that that's sort of
[25:23] like part of the
[25:25] process that I think hopefully we come
[25:28] out with that we say there's key points
[25:30] in our budget process every year when we
[25:32] reach out. And like one might be before
[25:34] we even [clears throat] start where
[25:35] we're saying, "Hey, we're getting
[25:36] started in the budget process.
[25:38] Are there priorities you have? Or like
[25:39] what what are the questions that we
[25:41] Yeah, so I mean, I guess sure, I think
[25:44] we should survey the town. Um
[25:46] I think it would be great to like be
[25:48] really intentional about when we do
[25:50] those surveys cuz it might be more than
[25:51] one as we keep try to keep some
[25:54] engagement for our budget process.
[25:56] Also, I mean, in terms of these numbers
[25:58] being accurate, my memory is that sort
[26:00] of one of the early things we do every
[26:02] year with capital planning is try to
[26:04] read up on our numbers. And that's
[26:05] another thing we should write into the
[26:06] process is like this is like your first
[26:08] step is like you know,
[26:10] is it garbage in, garbage out? Or do we
[26:12] actually can we rely on what we've got?
[26:13] Is it investable? But even I think when
[26:15] we do those updates, I I think where it
[26:17] gets tricky is it's like you have to
[26:19] really have a someone who know it who
[26:21] understands sort of that particular
[26:22] thing. Yes, how do you accurately price
[26:25] it? And what is a reasonable estimate? I
[26:26] think that's one of the things we've
[26:27] seen in the past is that we kind of we
[26:30] ask someone who bought the thing 5 years
[26:32] ago, but then the market around that
[26:34] thing has changed in the past 5 years.
[26:37] But you know, something that makes me
[26:37] think of is like at my work when we're
[26:40] trying to
[26:41] pay people a fair amount, we you know,
[26:43] we can't we can't do lots of research on
[26:46] every position every year cuz we don't
[26:48] have capacity. But we're trying to pick
[26:50] like at least one position every year
[26:52] and do some more in-depth like market
[26:54] research and like what are people paid
[26:55] for that? And maybe like that becomes
[26:57] part of our process is that we're like
[26:59] doing it you know, we might pick the
[27:01] fire truck coming up and it's like
[27:02] someone says, all right, what do fire
[27:04] trucks cost? And we do some research and
[27:05] so we at least are always improving the
[27:08] estimates. I don't know.
[27:10] The other thing I wanted to say around
[27:12] like I think we we should a survey makes
[27:15] sense in getting lots of input on that.
[27:17] I almost think it's important to think
[27:19] about something more formal of like you
[27:22] know, we're going to target funding the
[27:24] expected capital expenditures for
[27:26] whatever time frame from a a percent
[27:28] range
[27:29] and making that as official or like
[27:31] potentially even special article or as
[27:33] possible because
[27:35] it otherwise we can do all of this work,
[27:37] but the next time there's a changeover
[27:40] in the select board or something else
[27:41] happens
[27:43] or we just have a 15% price increase and
[27:45] we want to get that number down so that
[27:47] the budget passes. We cut that and that
[27:49] seems like that's been our plan. So I'm
[27:51] not suggesting we have to commit to any
[27:52] of that right now, but I I think
[27:55] if we say we're going to fund whatever
[27:57] that percentage is,
[27:58] I would recommend you know, I would kind
[28:00] of encourage everyone to say, well, it's
[28:01] we should put out to a vote that there's
[28:03] some range or something that's
[28:04] approximately like that so that we
[28:05] actually follow through on it cuz these budget sessions and as we've kind
[28:09] of seen,
[28:10] there's lots of you know, we'll pull
[28:12] from this, we'll pull that and and with
[28:14] the capital improvement plan I think one
[28:16] of the my my sense is one of the reasons
[28:18] there is a capital improvement plan is
[28:20] that these costs aren't negotiable. Like
[28:22] these things are going to be costs that
[28:24] we have to incur at some point. If we're
[28:26] not funding them, that that introduces a
[28:28] bunch of risk, especially if we have a
[28:30] flood that we have to bond. And we now
[28:32] no longer can go out to bond, right?
[28:34] Like it's great that FEMA's reimbursing
[28:35] us for these past few years, but if that
[28:38] hadn't have happened, now all of the
[28:40] sudden like we have no way to go out and
[28:41] do these expenses in the next five
[28:43] years.
[28:46] I really like the idea of having some
[28:47] metric that we're like that's the target
[28:49] for what we're putting in capital
[28:51] reserves. I agree like if especially if
[28:53] we get the town to vote on it or some
[28:55] way that we get input so we feel like
[28:57] that's an agreed upon thing and then
[28:58] yeah, that becomes a stable goal that
[29:01] and and to your point even if it's just
[29:02] guidance then we can at least point out
[29:04] when we're not meeting the guidance.
[29:06] Yeah, and it and it just that then
[29:07] survives any of us or the select board
[29:09] as there's change over it leads to more
[29:11] stability for the town.
[29:13] Is there a way of doing it like a
[29:15] special article format? Like if we
[29:18] wanted to
[29:20] Yeah, it might be it might be more
[29:21] complicated than anyone wants to do but
[29:22] it's totally doable. You you can amend
[29:24] your town charter and you know, it goes
[29:26] there's a legal process for it but if
[29:27] the town votes they want to introduce
[29:29] this policy.
[29:31] And and the Yeah, citizens can also just
[29:33] do like advisory things too, right? Like
[29:35] it's much simpler to have like a
[29:37] non-binding advisory thing. So we could
[29:39] talk in a lot more detail at some point
[29:40] about how exactly we want to get that.
[29:43] Um, I just realized I didn't let's read
[29:47] out the not included things here. So
[29:49] we've got town hall short-term repairs,
[29:51] town hall town new town garage, new town
[29:54] offices. None of those are included and Mark's thinking about doing like a
[30:00] 10-year presentation where we we really
[30:03] are looking at this capital planning
[30:05] from like a 10-year perspective and like
[30:07] the thinking is like all the stuff
[30:08] that's coming up. Like certainly makes
[30:10] sense to me. And I think we discussed a
[30:12] previous meeting that we we had we got
[30:14] to get numbers from
[30:15] I can't remember what it was but the the
[30:17] one the facilities planning committee is
[30:19] currently going on fifth I think.
[30:21] Um
[30:23] cuz the the offices we know we're going
[30:24] to have to spend money on but this
[30:26] building we we need to have where we're
[30:28] committing to spending money on so that
[30:29] it just meets standards that are in
[30:30] place for people to be here.
[30:32] Yeah, I mean I think Mark's other
[30:34] comments doing it the presentation
[30:36] earlier than October and getting
[30:38] attendees, you know, people who
[30:40] mentioned wanting to come before Dexter
[30:42] Lafavre and Kevin Davis. Like we we need
[30:44] to
[30:45] Yeah, pull them in. To me again, that's
[30:47] good process discussion at our next
[30:48] meeting, but like
[30:50] we should plan on like how do we like
[30:52] really get to people? And like you know,
[30:54] we can individually reach out to people
[30:55] who've expressed interest, but we can do
[30:58] like
[30:59] the place where I always get stuck is
[31:02] it's easy to put a post on Front Porch
[31:03] Forum, sure. Some subset of the town
[31:06] sees that. But like what are the next
[31:08] things that we can do to really try to
[31:11] get it in front of people, so people who
[31:13] have interest can attend.
[31:15] Um yeah, and hopefully I think that's in
[31:17] line with what Susan's talking about
[31:18] doing, too. So hopefully there's some
[31:20] more
[31:21] ideas there.
[31:24] All right. Um
[31:26] other thoughts on capital spending?
[31:30] I mean, I guess the last thing here is
[31:31] just the capital
[31:33] plan meeting presentation.
[31:35] I mean, my thinking is that that's after
[31:37] our June meeting, and that we like we're
[31:39] probably having a June meeting, and then
[31:41] we're going to need to have a meeting
[31:42] after June to sort of process what
[31:45] happened to the June meeting, and maybe
[31:46] that's where we'll do this capital
[31:47] planning meeting. We plan the
[31:49] presentation. Okay, does that make
[31:51] sense?
[31:51] >> Yeah.
[31:52] So maybe we're not taking 2 months off
[31:54] this year. That's
[32:07] Cool.
[32:08] Um
[32:10] anything else?
[32:17] Question for you.
[32:19] Yeah.
[32:20] How much do you consider the people or
[32:24] the quantities of people that use Front
[32:26] Porch Forum as as you suggested to ask a
[32:32] priority possibly of projects or list
[32:38] their projects individually that the
[32:40] people individuals want and then you can
[32:43] farm that out
[32:45] to evaluate by either quantity of people
[32:49] selecting certain ones and then turn
[32:51] around and make your your priority list
[32:55] off that and then get the
[32:57] consensus of the whole town. That sounds
[33:00] pretty good or you nay or nay it and
[33:02] then uh
[33:04] start up that way. Does that make sense?
[33:07] I mean I definitely think some sort of
[33:08] survey asking for priorities from people
[33:12] makes some sense, you know, and I think
[33:15] we've had ways where you can have a
[33:16] survey that's available both on Front
[33:18] Porch Forum and you can have it and you
[33:20] can do a tiny URL that you post up at
[33:22] the school and other places and I I
[33:24] think the things that we probably don't
[33:26] have capacity for is like, you know,
[33:28] back in the day we used to go
[33:29] door-to-door or we talk about paying for
[33:30] mailings to houses and that's expensive
[33:33] and time-consuming. So I guess that to
[33:35] me is the question is like how do we get
[33:37] to those people who aren't catching the
[33:39] Front Porch Forum things or the public
[33:41] meeting notices. I mean, the thing that
[33:43] always gets me about the public meeting
[33:44] notices is the ones that are mostly used
[33:46] are
[33:47] right here and right there and that's
[33:50] like one side of town and like all the
[33:52] rest of us on the rest of town
[33:54] >> We sometimes going to see those public
[33:56] notices. Sometimes they do run the guy.
[33:57] They they do sometimes do run the guy
[33:58] but even then like you're not the door's
[34:01] locked around you. Like it's hard to
[34:02] even get in. I don't even know where the
[34:03] poster is there.
[34:04] It's it's funny because depending on
[34:07] what it is you have to warn it in so
[34:09] many places and there's so many so many
[34:11] stipulations. We're looking at this now
[34:13] for like list or stuff actually.
[34:15] >> Right. And and you do and it makes it
[34:17] hard when you have small towns that
[34:19] don't have a lot of billboards, right?
[34:21] And I think they're looking at that
[34:24] where I'm trying to remember because I
[34:26] think I talked to VLCT last year to see
[34:28] if we could put it at like Shaw's in
[34:31] Waterbury if that would like count as
[34:33] one of our spots. I don't remember what
[34:35] they said honestly. It was like a year
[34:36] ago.
[34:37] Um but it's true. Like we don't have a
[34:39] lot of places in town to be able to like
[34:42] stick things to. Well, I'm I'm just
[34:44] thinking even instead of at Romney, put
[34:47] it right next to the bandstand's
[34:49] billboard there or even on the the
[34:51] little fire department building there.
[34:52] Like if it was out in the open,
[34:55] people, especially if there was room for
[34:57] other people to put other stuff on,
[34:58] maybe it would actually get used. I
[35:00] don't know.
[35:02] I I I recognize that the issue I I don't
[35:04] feel I feel like it's not a budget
[35:06] committee specific issue. Agreed. Not at
[35:08] all. But I think that you know, we've
[35:11] got feedback from various people. Yeah,
[35:13] I think the select board has echoed they
[35:14] want to figure out how to engage people
[35:16] more. So I think we should, you know, look to
[35:19] that to be able to be able to
[35:21] get some process. There's There's a
[35:23] bunch of things we can do. Even just
[35:24] having like
[35:25] newspaper drop boxes, you'd have to do
[35:28] printing costs of like a
[35:31] folding, but that's not super expensive
[35:33] and if people think it's important
[35:34] enough that this stuff gets shared out is successful. That's a lot
[35:37] better than French board front porch
[35:39] forum which has, you know, accessibility
[35:40] issues around just internet and other
[35:43] things. Right. But I I think it's
[35:44] important to
[35:46] we we're not going to be able to solve
[35:47] the the listing problem, but
[35:50] I I think we should reiterate to folks
[35:52] that if they want the town to feel like
[35:55] they
[35:56] uh are more informed and have the
[35:58] ability to comment early on,
[36:00] this is a gap we have to fill and it's
[36:02] probably going to take some amount of
[36:03] money.
[36:04] Yeah.
[36:05] Does it you know, could be less than a
[36:06] grand a year, but like it's probably
[36:08] going to take something.
[36:10] Yeah, absolutely.
[36:13] All right.
[36:15] Any Anything else from anyone before
[36:18] we adjourn?
[36:25] I have a motion to adjourn.
[36:27] I'll make a motion to end the meeting.
[36:29] Okay, second. All right. All in favor,
[36:32] aye.
[36:33] Meeting adjourned. Thanks for joining,
[36:34] Bill.
[36:35] Thank you. I just
[36:37] wanted to see what you guys are doing,
[36:39] what where you stand and everything cuz
[36:41] there's so many Well, I had people come
[36:44] up and said, "Oh, I want I would like to
[36:46] help you and we wanted a paper ballot or
[36:49] information." I said, "Well, I have to
[36:52] know more about what everybody does
[36:54] before I can say anything." And you
[36:57] know, they don't mind me sticking my
[36:58] nose in and at least seeing what you're
[37:00] doing, but uh
[37:03] I can pass it on to other people that
[37:05] asked me what what's happening. And uh
[37:09] you know, I'm retired. I'm I've
[37:11] myself here now. Everybody's gone. I can
[37:13] take care and
[37:15] do a little extra
[37:17] to help and spread the word. We can
[37:19] maybe find different things
[37:22] it could cuz we're spread out so far
[37:24] around town. There's no central
[37:26] location. We got, you know, all four
[37:28] ends were covered. There's nothing in
[37:30] the middle. Exactly. There's all four
[37:32] ends. And it it's hard to get people and
[37:35] if you don't really know them and you're
[37:38] not in the system like kids in school
[37:40] and stuff like that and sports
[37:43] you're you're you're out there hanging
[37:45] in for dear life. There's nothing there
[37:47] for you.
[37:48] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't think I'm
[37:50] alone in saying it's always exciting to
[37:52] have people come and join.
[37:54] How we want to encourage like to me
[37:56] anyone who shows up like it's okay to
[37:58] stop and ask basic questions because we
[38:01] want to bring everyone up to speed. Like
[38:02] that's a part of what we're here for.
[38:03] It's much better for it to happen now
[38:08] I think that's the big point Sarah and
[38:11] myself talked about once is that that we
[38:13] need to inform people beforehand because
[38:16] you can't change it when everybody's
[38:19] gone through the process and you're
[38:20] voting a final number,
[38:23] 3 million, 4 million, and you want to
[38:25] knock out 10 cents. I'm sorry, it
[38:27] doesn't work. You ain't got a chance in
[38:29] Hades to do it.
[38:30] Hopefully 3 million and 4 million are
[38:32] still a few years out. Yeah.
[38:34] I I just think of it like a web though.
[38:36] You you
[38:37] you're all right.
[38:38] >> [laughter]
[38:38] >> Yeah, we'll have to use a web analogy.
[38:40] You know, you you tweak any part of that
[38:41] web and and everything else has to
[38:43] shift. So That's right, and it doesn't
[38:45] work. I mean, I've budgeted projects and
[38:49] a lot of stuff for in for real TLF,
[38:51] local transportation, for sidewalks and
[38:54] bridges and stuff that you can't just
[38:56] take one item out. You need them. And
[38:59] until you're done, that's the other half
[39:02] of it is forgetting an item or miss
[39:06] quantity differences that throw
[39:10] everything right out of kilter real
[39:12] quick.
[39:15] All right. We hope we hope to see We
[39:17] hope to keep seeing you, Bill. Yeah,
[39:18] keep joining, please.
[39:21] Take care.
[39:22] Have a good evening, gentlemen. You too.
[39:28] » [music]