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of the meeting of the Affordable
Housing Trust.

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on September 2nd, 2026.

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at 6:01 p.m.

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Anna, do you want to take it from
here

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to start with the 40Y zoning info
session?

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Sure thing. Okay.

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So I wanted to bring tonight, um,

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a, I'll say relatively new,

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but I won't get into too many
details,

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but, um, a zoning tool that

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um, recently the state passed, I
think, back in 2023,

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and then there were guidelines
released, uh, this spring.

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And I came across this through some
conversations with

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um, the Office of Housing and Livable
Communities.

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And um, thought that this might be
something that would be worth looking
into

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to see if it might be something that
would work in Middleton.

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So I, um, invited tonight,

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um, a presenter from the office,

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Executive Office of Housing and
Livable Communities.

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I'll let him introduce himself when
we, um, get there.

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But I just wanted to set the stage
briefly,

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um, to do a quick overview of

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this zoning tool

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and to talk a little bit about where
and how and if it might, um,

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be a fit in Middleton.

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I'm hoping that we have around

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15 to 20 minutes of presentation

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and then plenty of time for questions

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and to also look at a, um,

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a potential application,

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just to kind of wrap our brains
around it a little bit.

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Um, so, um, who we have in the room.

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If we could actually, I think it
would be nice if we could do a quick
just, um,

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introduction of the board.

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And then, um, we do have a couple of
audience members as well.

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I would love if we could just do a
quick round so that we all know

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who's in the room and then we'll jump
in.

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Um, so Anna Berry Carmer, I'm the
planning director here in Middleton.

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And I'll pass it over to Maria.

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I'm Maria Pecos Hasis. I'm the Vice
Chair here of the Affordable Housing
Trust,

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acting as chair as Brian Crester is
not available this evening.

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Tom Martin, the citizen at large.

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Jason Burhart, representer of the
planning board.

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Bethany Andrebeck, uh, representer of
the large.

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Richard Gregorio, representer of the
finance board.

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Excuse me.

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Costa Frontacus, um, on the select
board and

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the community preservation Committee.

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[paper rustling]

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Oh, front. Linda Richards. Um,

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zoning board of appeals, Industrial
commercial, design and meeting.

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Anthony Mirabito, alternate member of
the ZBA.

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Kyle Smith, member of the Planning
Board.

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All right, great. Thanks everyone.

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Um, so I will pass it over to you.

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[paper rustling]

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I'm assuming that's me.

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[laughter]
Yeah. Sorry. I was looking at.

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Okay. I'm like, okay, this is a good
virtual, but yes, thank you. Okay.

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All right. Well, thank you Anna, and
thank you to the, uh,

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to the trust, uh, for inviting me
here tonight.

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Um, my name is Bill Ralt.

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I've worked at the, uh, what's now

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called the Executive Office of
Housing and Livable Communities

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for longer than I'd care to admit,

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uh, in different capacities,

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but since about 2009 or so, I've been
working primarily on, uh,

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what's known as Chapter 40R,

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the Smart Growth Zoning program,

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and more recently the starter home
zoning program. Um,

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which uh, was passed a number of
years ago and had uh, a few years ago
and and

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um, had a prior iteration as well.
Um,

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but, uh, as Anna mentioned, uh, the
regulations were only completed,

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uh, last March.

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due to various competing interests
and and priorities. Um,

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but, uh, nonetheless, I'll provide a
quick overview here

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and then, uh, we can get into
questions,

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but obviously feel free to interrupt

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if there's, uh, something that you
need to know immediately.

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Um, I do want to apologize that

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uh, we are still in the course of
updating our, uh,

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presentations to make them more
accessible.

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Uh, this one is not there yet and I
apologize for that.

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Um, uh, and please let me know if
that's a problem

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and I can follow up hopefully with,
uh, one that is fully accessible,

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um, after the meeting.

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Um, as soon as possible.

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So, um, uh, next slide, I guess, or
the the, uh,

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So just a quick overview, um, of

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We're going to discuss here uh some
of these items will be uh fairly
short.

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The uh program uh status uh program
activity.

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Um, but uh yeah, mainly uh providing
an overview of what the what the
program is,

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um, which is a voluntary program

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to encourage cities and towns to
adopt by right

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uh zoning districts that allow for
modest size single family homes

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at densities that are consistent

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with traditional neighborhood design
as one way to put it.

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And uh, you know, unlike 40R,

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there is uh there are no locational
uh requirements.

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Uh and the general purpose is to try
to uh, you know,

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we we have various tools to produce
multifamily housing,

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um, there haven't there hasn't been
as much attention

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on single family housing

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and um, this is a way to hopefully
bring down the cost uh without
layering on a lot of

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restrictions uh in terms of
affordability,

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um, by creating smaller homes on
smaller lots.

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Uh, next slide please.

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So, uh, the core requirements are
that

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uh in terms of single family use,

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uh, um, the statute defines uh a
starter home as a

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uh single family home with uh

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no more than 1850 square feet of
heated living area.

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And it allows for a uh an ADU uh by
right on the same lot

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as the starter home.

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Um, and also allows for limited

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um at at HLC's uh discretion or
approval,

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um non-residential uses within the
starter home zoning district.

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This can be either base or overlay
zoning,

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the presumption is that it would
primarily be

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uh used as overlay zoning.

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but we'll time will tell. Uh,

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has to be by right uh and the density
is a minimum of

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four units per developable acre of
land.

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Um, and we can get into that more
detail.

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Um, uh, but essentially sort of the
upwind, if you will.

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Um, and the uh in terms of the income
restrictions, it's uh

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uh a little confusing admittedly if
you just look at the statute,

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but the way has shaken out in terms
of the regulations

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is that um,

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all that communities can require at
the

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at the minimum of four units of acre
and they must allow this

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is uh 10% of the uh units in a
project that is

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13 or more units

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are affordable up to 110% of AMI.

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Uh, additional affordability as in
for instance, SHI, subsidized housing

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inventory levels of affordability

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uh can be encouraged through
additional incentives,

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but um, the you know, the districts

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must allow this at the minimum acre
uh density.

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Um, and that's the only restriction
that can be placed on affordability

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at that density.

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50% of the starter homes in a starter
home zoning district

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must contain three or more bedrooms.

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Next slide. And that's sort of seemed
like in keeping with

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the name of the of the program.

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In terms of some of the, you know,
general characteristics, other

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other general characteristics of the
40R zoning,

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Uh, I mentioned that it has to be uh
starter homes have to be allowed

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by right, as well as the ADUs.

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Uh, but uh you can apply um

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site plan review and design
standards,

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they do have to be consistent with a
an as of right process,

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namely they have to be, you know,
reasonable, clear, objective,

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um, that sort of thing.

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Uh, the um, it's it's ideally that
those requirements are included in
the

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starter home zoning bylaw,

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um, but um, uh, you know, they can be
perhaps reference other parts of

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the bylaw, um, where these where
existing standards are

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provided that they they they meet
those requirements that I mentioned
above.

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Um, or outside the zoning perhaps,
uh, um,

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if you want more flexibility

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in terms of make it easier to amend
design standards,

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that's uh, you know, if they're just
referenced in the zoning,

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Um, but we do have to review and
approve those and any modifications

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that are made to those over time.

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The statute calls for at least two

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or, you know, it calls for
sustainable development standards.

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Um, and uh, you know, the regulation
specify

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that you need at least two of those.

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And uh, that's, um, pretty flexible
really, I think.

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Uh, I think low impact design,

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uh, and OSRD are two examples that
have been cited.

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As far as any whatever the statute
refers to

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additional municipal standards, uh,
that would render development
infeasible.

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Um, and, you know, essentially, uh,
prohibits that.

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There are potentially work arounds
for that.

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Uh, if there a situation arises where
the municipality

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argues that, you know, these these
standards are feasible

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or there's some uh disagreement over
that.

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Um, there are potentially ways that
we can we can accommodate that.

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Uh, namely, it would probably be
that, uh, the zoning incentive,

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the municipality would not be
eligible

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for the zoning incentive payment
until

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there was actually evidence of that
the units were built.

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Um, and I'll get into the payments.
I'm sorry.

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The in terms of the uh, yeah, no age
restrictions, uh,

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they're entirely prohibited, um,

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whereas in 40R, just a contrast,
they, they can be, you know, um,

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they're allowed but they can't be
required.

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Uh, next slide please.

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So as far as the uh financial
incentives, uh,

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there they're two types of uh basic
payments or core payments.

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The zoning incentive payment

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and uh, the uh what's called
production bonus payment

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in uh in 40Y speak.

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Uh, the zoning incentive payment is
on a scale based on the net increase

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in uh single family homes on the
land.

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So, uh, you take whatever the 40R
zoning would allow, you know,

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could just be at the four units an
acre as I said,

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of developable land,

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Um, and you deduct the number of
units that are already allowed by
right

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or, you know, would be allowed by
right on that land or

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the any existing units that are on
that land already.

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Um, it would be the higher of those
two numbers would be deducted.

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Uh, as far as the uh production bonus
payment, that's um,

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and so it does range from 10 to as
low as $10,000

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up to $600,000 based on that number

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of what a referred to as incentive
units.

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The difference between the existing
and the proposed, or allowed

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under the start starter home zoning.

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The uh production bonus payment is
3,000 per unit.

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Uh, again, it's just the net increase
in Azbright units.

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Uh, other incentives are just
generally the desire to promote

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00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:52,020
single family housing opportunities.

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Um, there you can get points on
various HLC uh applications programs.

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Um, and there is the possibility of
uh 40S school cost reimbursement,

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uh, which uh I believe rests on there
there is pending legislation.

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I'm not sure

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of the status of it.

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Um, but that is uh hopefully will be
in place soon.

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Uh, next slide please.

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I think we're going to take questions
at the end.

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I think they're taking is that
correct?

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We're going to take he was going to
ask a question, but we're going to
take them at the end.

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Who's the payor of the incentive and
who's the pay?

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Who's the payor of the incentive and
who's the payee?

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Does the state pay the municipality?

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The the state is the payer and the,
yeah, the municipality is the payee.

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Thank you, that's all.

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Bill, do you want us to reserve
questions till you completed

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or as you go?

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I'd like to be clear on that.

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Uh, you know, if there's something,
you know, if you're worried

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you're gonna forget it

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00:14:06,180 --> 00:14:07,653
or whatever, feel free to jump in.

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00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,180
Yeah, yeah, presenting, whatever's
whatever.

237
00:14:11,770 --> 00:14:14,060
No, you tell us how you want it to
roll.

238
00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:16,583
If you could, Bill.

239
00:14:16,650 --> 00:14:18,593
That's fine. Really, it's fine.

240
00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:21,450
Whatever's whatever he feels like,
it's up to him.

241
00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:23,343
I'll wait till the end.

242
00:14:24,390 --> 00:14:25,790
Uh, next slide?

243
00:14:28,420 --> 00:14:30,913
So, more about the payments again,
uh, you know, I I sort of got

244
00:14:30,980 --> 00:14:32,353
ahead of myself here,

245
00:14:32,420 --> 00:14:35,800
but you could see the payment
schedule there.

246
00:14:36,190 --> 00:14:38,203
I will add that there's also pending
legislation right now,

247
00:14:38,270 --> 00:14:41,733
as I understand it's in conference
committee, committee

248
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,420
to increase these payments.

249
00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:47,993
Um, these payments apply to both 40Y
and 40R.

250
00:14:48,060 --> 00:14:51,283
Um, the pending legislation or the
last version I saw anyway,

251
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:53,290
doubled these payment amounts.

252
00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:56,993
Um, both on the incentive payment,
uh, schedule and the bonus

253
00:14:57,060 --> 00:14:59,840
payment schedule.

254
00:15:01,036 --> 00:15:03,429
Um, so, yeah.

255
00:15:03,496 --> 00:15:06,766
Um, I think I've already covered
this. We can go to the next slide.

256
00:15:10,516 --> 00:15:13,139
Uh, so as far as the process is
concerned,

257
00:15:13,206 --> 00:15:17,009
really, uh, you know, it's helpful to
have an initial consultation.

258
00:15:17,076 --> 00:15:21,999
Uh, we encourage that rather than
just sort of sending in an
application blind.

259
00:15:22,066 --> 00:15:24,429
Uh, I will say that actually we don't
currently have

260
00:15:24,496 --> 00:15:26,479
the application posted on our
website.

261
00:15:26,546 --> 00:15:30,376
We're trying to move to a an online
form.

262
00:15:30,556 --> 00:15:35,329
Uh, and that is still in the process
of being developed.

263
00:15:35,396 --> 00:15:38,199
Uh, but should not prevent anyone
from applying.

264
00:15:38,266 --> 00:15:40,949
If you do, uh, ready to go,

265
00:15:41,016 --> 00:15:43,079
uh, we have an interim paper form
that we are,

266
00:15:43,146 --> 00:15:46,516
you know, word document form that we
can send out.

267
00:15:47,506 --> 00:15:49,969
Uh, the municipality prepares the
application,

268
00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:51,969
which basically considers of a, you
know,

269
00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:58,199
consists of a form along with a, uh,
a, um, accompanying spreadsheet.

270
00:15:58,266 --> 00:16:02,546
Uh, for the parcels, uh, that might
be contained in the district.

271
00:16:03,046 --> 00:16:07,689
Uh, we issue what's called, we have,
uh, uh, effectively 45 days to issue

272
00:16:07,756 --> 00:16:11,326
a preliminary determination of
eligibility.

273
00:16:11,706 --> 00:16:15,436
Um, and that application would
include a draft of a zoning.

274
00:16:15,536 --> 00:16:17,819
Something we're also trying to
develop is a,

275
00:16:17,886 --> 00:16:19,849
uh, you know, a sort of, uh,

276
00:16:19,916 --> 00:16:22,969
uh, I don't know if I want to refer
to as a model bylaw,

277
00:16:23,036 --> 00:16:26,366
but at least a template that
communities can work off of.

278
00:16:26,476 --> 00:16:28,679
Um, we have some informal ones at the
moment,

279
00:16:28,746 --> 00:16:32,109
but they're not as polished as we'd
like them to be.

280
00:16:32,176 --> 00:16:34,339
Uh, hence they are not yet posted.

281
00:16:34,406 --> 00:16:38,649
But, uh, again, don't let that be an
obstacle if you're ready to go.

282
00:16:38,716 --> 00:16:43,426
Um, I can provide some informal, uh,
models for use.

283
00:16:43,716 --> 00:16:47,349
Uh, once, uh, you know, and at that
point it can go, uh, you know,

284
00:16:47,416 --> 00:16:49,969
after we've issued that, uh,
determination of eligibility,

285
00:16:50,036 --> 00:16:53,239
the municipality can go ahead and
vote.

286
00:16:53,306 --> 00:16:54,669
A town meeting,

287
00:16:54,736 --> 00:16:58,896
and uh, it's a simple majority vote
generally.

288
00:17:00,086 --> 00:17:04,569
Um, we then just need proof that the
zoning was adopted

289
00:17:04,636 --> 00:17:07,449
and to reconcile any changes that
were made compared

290
00:17:07,516 --> 00:17:10,086
to the draft that we had approved.

291
00:17:10,336 --> 00:17:15,006
Uh, if it's a town, the bylaw has to
get approved by the AG.

292
00:17:16,516 --> 00:17:19,949
And, um, really at that point the
municipality may be eligible

293
00:17:20,016 --> 00:17:23,169
for that zoning incentive payment,
that upfront payment,

294
00:17:23,236 --> 00:17:27,019
uh, assuming there are no, uh,
conditions that, uh,

295
00:17:27,086 --> 00:17:29,939
we've placed on the, on the
eligibility

296
00:17:30,006 --> 00:17:32,029
in terms of, uh, you know,

297
00:17:32,096 --> 00:17:34,639
significant infrastructure
improvements,

298
00:17:34,706 --> 00:17:38,716
um, or things having to deal with
ownership of the land.

299
00:17:39,956 --> 00:17:43,049
Um, that can be, uh, generally
publicly owned land and, you know,

300
00:17:43,116 --> 00:17:47,949
not jumping ahead to our, to our, uh,
test case,

301
00:17:48,016 --> 00:17:51,449
but, uh, publicly owned land, there
can be conditions around that

302
00:17:51,516 --> 00:17:55,106
in terms of receipt of the zoning
incentive payment.

303
00:17:56,126 --> 00:17:59,686
Um, the or timing, I should say, of
the zoning incentive payment.

304
00:18:00,836 --> 00:18:04,959
Uh, and yeah, once, once we issue
that, uh, second letter of approval,

305
00:18:05,026 --> 00:18:07,909
the, uh, you know, uh, district

306
00:18:07,976 --> 00:18:11,626
applicants could submit applications.

307
00:18:12,526 --> 00:18:16,859
And, uh, bonus, the bonus payment for
that, you need the, uh,

308
00:18:16,926 --> 00:18:18,759
essentially evidence of building
permits.

309
00:18:18,826 --> 00:18:20,999
And we need the, you know, decision

310
00:18:21,066 --> 00:18:24,456
to review the decision that was made.

311
00:18:25,406 --> 00:18:29,039
And, uh, if, uh, there are any
affordability affordable units, so

312
00:18:29,106 --> 00:18:31,919
the affordable units again, apply to
any project

313
00:18:31,986 --> 00:18:36,096
containing 13 or more starter homes.

314
00:18:36,706 --> 00:18:40,029
Uh, and anything less than that,
actually you cannot require

315
00:18:40,096 --> 00:18:44,726
in the zoning affordability.

316
00:18:45,026 --> 00:18:48,299
Now if it's town owned land, um, and
the town's going to dispose of,

317
00:18:48,366 --> 00:18:52,086
you know, have a disposition process
or in control of it,

318
00:18:52,336 --> 00:18:55,019
um, you know, there are other ways
that zoning, uh, affordability

319
00:18:55,086 --> 00:18:58,146
could be required on smaller
projects.

320
00:18:58,846 --> 00:19:01,886
But, um, not in the zoning.

321
00:19:03,206 --> 00:19:06,516
Uh, and I think that covers that
slide.

322
00:19:08,026 --> 00:19:09,786
And that may be it.

323
00:19:09,976 --> 00:19:13,069
Um, yeah, just, uh, a visual example
of, you know,

324
00:19:13,136 --> 00:19:16,649
smaller homes clustered together, uh,

325
00:19:16,716 --> 00:19:20,119
in a denser situation, this is the
Conquered Riverwalk project,

326
00:19:20,186 --> 00:19:22,966
which is not a starter home project,
but, um,

327
00:19:23,236 --> 00:19:27,686
just sort of illustrative of it, I
would say, perhaps.

328
00:19:28,426 --> 00:19:30,259
Um, and I think that's it.

329
00:19:30,326 --> 00:19:32,369
Uh, the last slide just provides my
email address

330
00:19:32,436 --> 00:19:37,156
and my, um, my colleague's email
address, contact information.

331
00:19:39,436 --> 00:19:42,029
Uh, and I hope I didn't run over on
that, but, uh,

332
00:19:42,096 --> 00:19:45,236
I'll hand it over, hand it back to
Anna.

333
00:19:45,786 --> 00:19:48,269
Oh, that's Unless, yeah. Yeah, that's
great timing.

334
00:19:48,336 --> 00:19:52,676
And I think we could do some
questions and then move into the case
study.

335
00:19:53,306 --> 00:19:54,639
Custa?

336
00:19:55,606 --> 00:20:00,286
The incentive payments. Middleton has
not adopted.

337
00:20:00,419 --> 00:20:05,432
after the MBTA zoning and therefore
is ineligible for a state

338
00:20:05,499 --> 00:20:07,999
some state grants.

339
00:20:09,139 --> 00:20:12,339
Are we wasting our time with
incentives here?

340
00:20:14,399 --> 00:20:16,989
Thanks for the question I was going
to ask the same, Costa.

341
00:20:18,489 --> 00:20:23,302
Uh I cannot answer that definitively
myself, but um

342
00:20:23,369 --> 00:20:28,069
uh that does sound like it could be
an issue. I'll just leave it at that.

343
00:20:28,249 --> 00:20:32,909
Uh at least until, you know, that
that that issue is reconciled, yeah.

344
00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:40,409
But we is there a minimum acreage
requirement in in a 40 Y zone.

345
00:20:42,109 --> 00:20:43,442
No.

346
00:20:45,339 --> 00:20:52,159
Okay. Why did you pick 1850 square
feet as the size?

347
00:20:52,329 --> 00:20:54,999
Uh seems like a Well Yeah.

348
00:20:56,549 --> 00:21:01,239
Uh, well, the legislature picked it.
We we didn't pick it.

349
00:21:01,389 --> 00:21:07,212
Um, but uh, yeah, in fact, I mean the
proponents of the bill

350
00:21:07,279 --> 00:21:11,712
uh, you know, before it passed in the
legislature, honestly picked it.

351
00:21:11,779 --> 00:21:15,022
And they were uh, I think this, you
know, I don't, you know,

352
00:21:15,089 --> 00:21:18,112
I don't think I'm uh divulging any
secrets to, you know,

353
00:21:18,179 --> 00:21:24,522
this was uh uh sort of uh initiated I
believe, or one of the

354
00:21:24,589 --> 00:21:26,182
you know, lead stakeholders was the
uh home builders,

355
00:21:26,249 --> 00:21:27,929
mass home builders Association.

356
00:21:28,169 --> 00:21:30,272
Um, so

357
00:21:30,339 --> 00:21:33,662
I would I would I guess I would point
to them as, you know, or

358
00:21:33,729 --> 00:21:35,822
that's that's where I'd have to get
that question answered.

359
00:21:35,889 --> 00:21:39,402
But I think it's considered a home
that's, you know, can comfortably

360
00:21:39,469 --> 00:21:44,692
uh accommodate uh, you know, three
bedrooms.

361
00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:50,022
Um, and, you know, it's smaller
perhaps than the average home size.

362
00:21:50,089 --> 00:21:53,842
Uh, I mean, their argument is that,
you know, when you have large lot

363
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:57,132
zoning, you have to build a big home
on it to uh recoup your

364
00:21:57,199 --> 00:22:02,202
uh, you know, single family large lot
zoning, you have to build

365
00:22:02,269 --> 00:22:05,952
a big enough home on it to recoup the
land cost.

366
00:22:06,019 --> 00:22:12,002
Um, and so, I think what's what's the
the the sort of uh

367
00:22:12,069 --> 00:22:18,832
proposition here is that by limiting
the size of the homes, um, you can

368
00:22:18,899 --> 00:22:23,172
get some sort of more natural
affordability beyond just the

369
00:22:23,239 --> 00:22:30,239
the minimum uh income restriction
requirement of 10% at 110% of AMI.

370
00:22:30,409 --> 00:22:31,242
[notification sound]

371
00:22:31,409 --> 00:22:33,042
Beth, did you have a question?

372
00:22:33,109 --> 00:22:37,342
Yeah, uh if Massachusetts ballot
measure seven passes,

373
00:22:37,409 --> 00:22:44,269
uh is this just free money because
the the restrictions would no longer
be enforceable?

374
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:49,142
And they will be they'll permit so
question seven says that you

375
00:22:49,209 --> 00:22:54,852
uh single family homes are permitted
on all lots of 5,000

376
00:22:54,919 --> 00:22:59,202
uh uh square feet, I think.

377
00:22:59,269 --> 00:23:02,812
Um, and so it's would be higher
density than this allows.

378
00:23:02,879 --> 00:23:08,762
Is like would this be a has there
been discussions about what happens

379
00:23:08,829 --> 00:23:14,579
if that passes and this program is
sort of redundant?

380
00:23:15,899 --> 00:23:19,432
Yeah, I think that the uh general
conversation there has been,

381
00:23:19,499 --> 00:23:23,172
I mean, there have not been deep
discussions that I've been involved

382
00:23:23,239 --> 00:23:28,002
in, but um, I think uh it just uh the
conclusion is that it would sort

383
00:23:28,069 --> 00:23:32,299
of render uh 40Y uh sort of
irrelevant in suward locations.

384
00:23:37,389 --> 00:23:38,799
I I heard you mention

385
00:23:39,149 --> 00:23:42,442
I heard you mention earlier the 1850
square feet you said it was,

386
00:23:42,509 --> 00:23:44,799
um, heated space.

387
00:23:45,399 --> 00:23:49,462
Is does that mean they could put up
a, you know, a 2,000 square foot

388
00:23:49,529 --> 00:23:53,622
garage also, non-heated, attached to
the

389
00:23:53,689 --> 00:23:56,209
attached to it?

390
00:23:56,329 --> 00:23:59,332
Could you said 1850 square feet of
heated space?

391
00:23:59,399 --> 00:24:02,132
Is that just the full size or

392
00:24:02,199 --> 00:24:06,212
Right. And I and I think that I think
the definition in the

393
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:10,172
regulations actually gets into
conditioned space. It it it

394
00:24:10,239 --> 00:24:15,522
connects it to the uh building code
term conditioned space.

395
00:24:15,589 --> 00:24:19,722
Uh yeah, in theory, somebody could
build a huge garage. Um,

396
00:24:19,789 --> 00:24:23,412
uh, you know, we hope that they'll be
design standards in the

397
00:24:23,479 --> 00:24:26,672
communities uh, um, you know, uh

398
00:24:26,739 --> 00:24:32,999
in their zoning that would that would
prevent that.

399
00:24:33,729 --> 00:24:39,869
Um, we haven't gotten into regulating
that yet in the uh in the regulation.

400
00:24:41,049 --> 00:24:41,883
Thank you.

401
00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:44,542
Anyone else here have question?
Herman, anything?

402
00:24:44,609 --> 00:24:45,752
I'm good.

403
00:24:45,819 --> 00:24:46,653
Good. All set.

404
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,073
Did anyone in the audience go ahead?

405
00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:50,422
But yeah, certainly, certainly
something to think about.

406
00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:53,632
You know. So RV 1850 square feet, but

407
00:24:53,699 --> 00:24:57,422
just to clarify, you said you could
they would also be subject

408
00:24:57,489 --> 00:25:00,459
to the ADU

409
00:25:01,064 --> 00:25:06,284
Uh legislation so they could do an
ADU in the back as well.

410
00:25:06,954 --> 00:25:09,817
And I think that's 900 square feet on
the ADUs?

411
00:25:09,884 --> 00:25:11,217
Yes. Mhm.

412
00:25:11,798 --> 00:25:16,791
Uh 40Y preceded the state ADU bylaw

413
00:25:16,858 --> 00:25:20,581
and it referenced 600 square feet,

414
00:25:20,648 --> 00:25:27,241
so my understanding is that uh the
regulations allow

415
00:25:27,308 --> 00:25:32,031
would allow a 40Y district to
restrict to 600 square feet.

416
00:25:32,098 --> 00:25:35,872
Um, but they could go to 900. They
could allow that.

417
00:25:35,939 --> 00:25:39,812
How could that be if it's preceded it
and then the 900

418
00:25:39,879 --> 00:25:42,242
came in later, you would think the
900 superseded it.

419
00:25:42,309 --> 00:25:45,451
came in afterwards. So that's
confusing, not very clear.

420
00:25:45,518 --> 00:25:49,533
Sorry, the 600 the 600 is I guess the
more specific of the laws.

421
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,278
I'm not a lawyer. I'm just parroting

422
00:25:52,438 --> 00:25:57,638
I guess or relaying what my what I've
heard from our legal department

423
00:25:58,028 --> 00:26:04,201
is that um because 40Y is the more
specific in this regard,

424
00:26:04,268 --> 00:26:08,861
uh and it preceded uh the state ADU
law

425
00:26:08,928 --> 00:26:13,331
that um uh within a starter home
district,

426
00:26:13,398 --> 00:26:17,599
you could restrict the ADUs to just
600 square feet.

427
00:26:17,666 --> 00:26:22,236
So if we were to Because that was
Because that was specified in 40Y.

428
00:26:23,446 --> 00:26:27,096
If we were to proceed with this,
perhaps we could get a uh

429
00:26:27,786 --> 00:26:31,716
let a confirming whether it's the 600
or the 950.

430
00:26:32,513 --> 00:26:33,566
900.

431
00:26:33,633 --> 00:26:38,033
Uh, I mean, I would argue or
encourage that it actually be put

432
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,493
into the starter home zoning.

433
00:26:40,953 --> 00:26:44,963
It's in our it's in our regulations,
our 40Y regulations.

434
00:26:45,263 --> 00:26:48,133
Um, I yeah, uh

435
00:26:50,663 --> 00:26:54,213
I That's the best I can answer that
at the moment.

436
00:26:54,626 --> 00:26:55,533
Yeah. I

437
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,469
I didn't want to add one thing about
one thing about

438
00:26:58,536 --> 00:27:02,769
accessory dwelling is the way it's
written is uh

439
00:27:02,836 --> 00:27:06,716
it's an accessory unit on the same
lot as a starter home.

440
00:27:07,956 --> 00:27:13,786
So uh if you're doing uh and just
based on what we've seen already

441
00:27:14,146 --> 00:27:18,429
uh in this regard, uh in terms of
informal applications,

442
00:27:18,496 --> 00:27:21,946
we've seen some that have been uh
condos

443
00:27:22,216 --> 00:27:24,756
proposed as condos anyway.

444
00:27:25,096 --> 00:27:29,406
Um, and so, you know, it's
essentially all one lot.

445
00:27:29,926 --> 00:27:35,033
Um, so my understanding is you would
just need to allow one

446
00:27:35,100 --> 00:27:38,906
1 ADU on that in that type of
arrangement.

447
00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:42,489
But if you do get into parcels, uh
each starter home

448
00:27:42,556 --> 00:27:46,519
being on its own parcel, then you
would have to allow a uh

449
00:27:46,586 --> 00:27:48,396
an ADU on each parcel.

450
00:27:49,121 --> 00:27:53,864
Um, I also didn't, I'm realizing that
I I uh just briefly

451
00:27:53,931 --> 00:27:58,584
I didn't I sort of left out the
program status. Uh, um,

452
00:27:58,651 --> 00:28:00,691
the program status is that we've
received

453
00:28:00,881 --> 00:28:04,533
one we've issued one preliminary
determination of eligibility so far.

454
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,841
We've gotten one formal application
since March.

455
00:28:08,331 --> 00:28:12,524
Uh, and it is for a very small 40Y
district, um,

456
00:28:12,591 --> 00:28:15,404
that has to my knowledge not yet been
adopt adopted

457
00:28:15,471 --> 00:28:19,851
but I expect that it will be in the
next month or so.

458
00:28:21,554 --> 00:28:22,577
Sorry about that.

459
00:28:22,644 --> 00:28:25,927
No, thank you for adding that. And I
think that,

460
00:28:25,994 --> 00:28:28,587
um, the ADU conversation kind of

461
00:28:28,654 --> 00:28:33,394
is a pathway I think into thinking
about this

462
00:28:34,024 --> 00:28:38,127
in Middleton specifically because
there are some considerations here,

463
00:28:38,194 --> 00:28:42,144
utilities and sewer or lack of sewer
being one of them

464
00:28:42,254 --> 00:28:45,607
that would definitely um change how
this would look

465
00:28:45,674 --> 00:28:47,704
and how we would implement it because

466
00:28:48,474 --> 00:28:53,327
um that is that is one thing I think
some of

467
00:28:53,394 --> 00:28:58,177
at least the existing developments
with smaller lots,

468
00:28:58,244 --> 00:29:02,307
some of them have been condo
developments so that

469
00:29:02,374 --> 00:29:05,464
there is one um septic.

470
00:29:05,544 --> 00:29:09,164
Um, and then that would that changes
how like

471
00:29:09,444 --> 00:29:14,124
basically how the zoning um would be
applied.

472
00:29:14,384 --> 00:29:18,177
So I think this would be a good time
I can just talk a little bit about um

473
00:29:18,244 --> 00:29:20,434
I just got a question first.

474
00:29:20,644 --> 00:29:21,977
Yes. Go ahead, Linda.

475
00:29:22,154 --> 00:29:24,444
Well, we've already covered.

476
00:29:24,904 --> 00:29:29,347
Um, if this kind of development were
built on public land,

477
00:29:29,414 --> 00:29:32,654
who owns the land after development?

478
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,733
I it seemed like you were suggesting
that the land would continue to be

479
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,390
public land.

480
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,033
in which case the developed units
would be on leased land or free

481
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:48,140
leased land or

482
00:29:48,450 --> 00:29:49,533
I don't know, just

483
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,063
I I can um know that?

484
00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:56,723
Well, it there were I think there
would be a lot of considerations,

485
00:29:56,790 --> 00:30:00,100
but the reference to public land, I
think was a case study.

486
00:30:00,176 --> 00:30:04,909
I wanted to look at um the town own
49 Locust Street,

487
00:30:04,976 --> 00:30:08,699
but I think the idea wouldn't be that
the town develops.

488
00:30:08,766 --> 00:30:12,379
The idea is that land is suitable for
development,

489
00:30:12,446 --> 00:30:15,279
and the town would sell it or

490
00:30:15,346 --> 00:30:22,029
have like it we would be able to put
it we would be able to put it through
the process so that the town did not
own it

491
00:30:22,096 --> 00:30:25,039
at the time of development or past
that.

492
00:30:25,106 --> 00:30:29,486
Does that Did that clear anything up
or did I misspeak?

493
00:30:29,626 --> 00:30:31,699
Well,

494
00:30:31,766 --> 00:30:34,869
It does clear it up, but it raises
another question of

495
00:30:34,936 --> 00:30:37,436
if the town own the the land,

496
00:30:38,456 --> 00:30:44,209
then that would be a way of insuring
that there's affordability

497
00:30:44,276 --> 00:30:47,666
and starter home status

498
00:30:49,126 --> 00:30:51,289
is in perpetuity.

499
00:30:51,356 --> 00:30:58,356
that it could be a requirement of of
ownership or transfer of title with
the property or the the buildings.

500
00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:02,869
For the for the 10% affordability,

501
00:31:02,936 --> 00:31:07,999
that's allowed under this and Bill,
please correct me if I'm not
speaking,

502
00:31:08,066 --> 00:31:11,899
but my understanding is those are
income restricted units.

503
00:31:11,966 --> 00:31:16,829
The same way that we have income
restricted units already in town,

504
00:31:16,896 --> 00:31:23,449
they stay income restricted, there's
an agreement that the town signs,
whether or not the town owns the
land.

505
00:31:23,516 --> 00:31:29,026
But at the time of development when
those are approved as affordable
units.

506
00:31:30,296 --> 00:31:32,679
So it becomes part of the title of
the property.

507
00:31:32,746 --> 00:31:39,746
Is that this that if they sell the
house, they if they sell the property
with the buildings on it,

508
00:31:41,406 --> 00:31:43,089
Right. They would have to be

509
00:31:43,156 --> 00:31:49,399
Yes, there's a typically there's,
yeah, there's a um deed restriction
that gets filed on the property,

510
00:31:49,466 --> 00:31:54,819
and at the time of sale, one of the
things that typically comes with that
is the town has the right of first
refusal

511
00:31:54,886 --> 00:31:59,539
to um purchase the land, but then the
land is sold then at an affordable

512
00:31:59,606 --> 00:32:03,006
and it has that affordable cap.

513
00:32:03,556 --> 00:32:09,899
There's you can also set timelines
when you when the when those are um
being developed,

514
00:32:09,966 --> 00:32:16,579
you can put them on a timeline of 30
years, I think, or in perpetuity.

515
00:32:16,646 --> 00:32:21,556
There are some different ways and I
don't I'm sorry, I don't know all the
details of that.

516
00:32:23,016 --> 00:32:28,666
Um but we do keep a list in town, so
that's how kind of we keep track of
our affordable units.

517
00:32:29,476 --> 00:32:30,573
Did anybody else have anything

518
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:37,060
I do want to be clear though that the
again that the sta- statute

519
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:40,230
and the regulations for 40 Y

520
00:32:41,050 --> 00:32:48,050
at at at just the minimum acreage, a
minimum acreage, a minimum density of
four units per developable acre,

521
00:32:48,830 --> 00:32:53,723
only allow uh the zoning to require
that 10% of the units are income
restricted

522
00:32:53,790 --> 00:32:59,890
up to 110% of AMI.

523
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,720
So they're not SHI eligible units.

524
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:09,453
If you want SHI uh sorry, I'm using
lingo here, but I'm uh imagine people
are familiar

525
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,390
with the subsidized housing
inventory.

526
00:33:13,130 --> 00:33:18,150
Uh if you want the development to
have include SHI eligible units,

527
00:33:18,450 --> 00:33:22,443
that needs to be um uh incentivized

528
00:33:22,510 --> 00:33:26,560
as an option to the applicant.

529
00:33:27,420 --> 00:33:29,803
Um through a density bonus.

530
00:33:29,870 --> 00:33:34,833
So for instance, you allow seven
starter homes per acre or six or
seven, you know, something that
entices

531
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:40,450
uh the developer to choose that
option.

532
00:33:40,660 --> 00:33:47,313
But they need to be able to develop
the four units at the four units per
acre density at just the 10% units

533
00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:52,853
at 10% of AMI and it only applies to
projects that are 12 uh sorry, 13 or
more units,

534
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,380
13 or more starter homes.

535
00:33:58,330 --> 00:33:59,890
Gus, do you have a question?

536
00:34:00,220 --> 00:34:06,243
Is the 1850 square foot maximum size

537
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:10,260
a condition in perpetuity?

538
00:34:10,870 --> 00:34:15,043
Or can somebody buy this 1850 square
foot home

539
00:34:15,110 --> 00:34:20,320
and 10 years later when they sell it,
it's a 3,000 square foot home.

540
00:34:23,470 --> 00:34:28,363
You know, there was discussion of
this when we were doing the
regulations and uh

541
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:33,653
ultimately the decision was to um uh

542
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:39,053
you know, in a in a condominium
situation, uh which may be uh house

543
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,433
uh how some of these uh developments
proceed,

544
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:48,380
um you know, that that could be
addressed in the condo docs.

545
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,413
Um the but really I think, you know,
it'll be in the zoning

546
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,560
that the unit is restricted to 1850
square feet.

547
00:34:58,550 --> 00:35:00,110
Um, beyond that,

548
00:35:00,514 --> 00:35:02,327
I think it's gonna be up to the
building inspector

549
00:35:02,394 --> 00:35:03,887
and the town, uh,

550
00:35:03,954 --> 00:35:06,327
you know,

551
00:35:06,394 --> 00:35:09,474
how that's, how that's, um,

552
00:35:09,954 --> 00:35:11,484
enforced.

553
00:35:12,634 --> 00:35:16,417
Uh, I mean, I can certainly take this
question back to our legal department

554
00:35:16,484 --> 00:35:20,877
and, uh, if if, you know, um,

555
00:35:20,944 --> 00:35:24,407
and and, uh, follow up with any

556
00:35:24,474 --> 00:35:27,044
additional information, but, uh,

557
00:35:27,504 --> 00:35:32,074
really I can tell you that in the the
regulations don't specifically
address it.

558
00:35:32,494 --> 00:35:36,964
Um, which doesn't mean that we're not
open to, um, you know,

559
00:35:37,034 --> 00:35:41,157
the town putting more explicit
requirements in the zoning,

560
00:35:41,224 --> 00:35:43,164
um, to prevent that.

561
00:35:47,241 --> 00:35:48,074
Go ahead.

562
00:35:48,141 --> 00:35:50,490
Um, definition of

563
00:35:50,557 --> 00:35:53,937
I just, I just think we wanted to
leave it, you know, I mean you can

564
00:35:54,004 --> 00:35:58,154
look at it two ways, either we we
sort of punted on the issue or

565
00:35:58,304 --> 00:36:02,407
we wanted to, uh, you know, um,

566
00:36:02,474 --> 00:36:06,564
sort of see, you know, how
municipalities wanted to deal with
that.

567
00:36:07,374 --> 00:36:11,257
Um, definition of developable land.

568
00:36:11,324 --> 00:36:15,637
So if it's two acres, but half of
it's two acres, but half of it's wet,
then they'd still be limited to

569
00:36:15,704 --> 00:36:18,107
four units or could they pack eight

570
00:36:18,174 --> 00:36:21,574
on the remaining acre that's
buildable?

571
00:36:22,784 --> 00:36:27,657
No, the density would be based, uh,
would would would be based on that

572
00:36:27,724 --> 00:36:31,957
that net acreage of developable land.

573
00:36:32,024 --> 00:36:33,984
Okay. So it'd be, yeah.

574
00:36:34,264 --> 00:36:35,597
Got you.

575
00:36:37,924 --> 00:36:42,937
Uh, I mean, honestly, the, and by
that I mean, that's what we would

576
00:36:43,004 --> 00:36:45,007
require that the zoning allows.

577
00:36:45,074 --> 00:36:48,267
If the municipality wants to allow
more density than that, that's fine

578
00:36:48,334 --> 00:36:52,704
with us. But, um, in terms of meeting
the the minimum density

579
00:36:53,114 --> 00:36:55,574
required for the program, that's

580
00:36:56,124 --> 00:36:57,887
And the minimum. That's what we would
be looking at.

581
00:36:57,954 --> 00:37:02,377
Yeah, so the minimum density, just so
there's some context for you all.

582
00:37:02,444 --> 00:37:08,377
Four units per acre is compared to
our current zoning right now,

583
00:37:08,444 --> 00:37:14,377
about half acre lot, or half lots in
the R1A district.

584
00:37:14,444 --> 00:37:20,877
So our R1A district lots are
currently right now,

585
00:37:20,944 --> 00:37:23,944
um, 20,000 square feet.

586
00:37:24,284 --> 00:37:29,367
So this would be about two homes, two
units per lot in R1A.

587
00:37:29,434 --> 00:37:31,537
In R1B, it would be

588
00:37:31,604 --> 00:37:35,257
like closer to four homes per lot.

589
00:37:35,324 --> 00:37:38,424
Those lots are closer to one acre
lots.

590
00:37:38,514 --> 00:37:42,297
Um, we do them by square feet instead
of acreage, but

591
00:37:42,364 --> 00:37:47,517
just so you can get a sense of what
the actual density would feel like.

592
00:37:47,584 --> 00:37:50,004
That's essentially what it would feel
like.

593
00:37:52,504 --> 00:37:58,704
And I'm going to try and pull up a
couple pictures, but

594
00:38:01,054 --> 00:38:03,864
I've forgotten how to use my laptop
tonight.

595
00:38:05,404 --> 00:38:07,084
So we'll see if I can do it.

596
00:38:07,504 --> 00:38:08,337
There goes Bill.

597
00:38:08,404 --> 00:38:21,337
[mouse clicking]

598
00:38:21,404 --> 00:38:22,237
Okay.

599
00:38:22,304 --> 00:38:32,410
[mouse clicking]

600
00:38:32,477 --> 00:38:39,270
So, this one I pulled an example, um,
Wonderburg Road, because I

601
00:38:39,337 --> 00:38:44,770
I took a look, just a quick look, um,
I'm going to make this bigger

602
00:38:44,837 --> 00:38:46,957
because it's too small on my slide.

603
00:38:48,507 --> 00:38:54,970
But this was one example. So this is
in our R1A zone, and some of

604
00:38:55,037 --> 00:39:00,230
these lots are a little smaller than
the 20,000 square feet already.

605
00:39:00,297 --> 00:39:07,297
Um, and so this is closer to what,
um, what I think potentially one

606
00:39:07,537 --> 00:39:09,530
of these developments might feel
like.

607
00:39:09,597 --> 00:39:14,270
Although I do think that there would
be some opportunity and that's

608
00:39:14,337 --> 00:39:19,537
part of my interest is that there
would be some opportunity to have,

609
00:39:19,657 --> 00:39:23,070
um, something that felt more
basically more like a cluster

610
00:39:23,137 --> 00:39:27,670
development. So a little bit more
like the homes are together on one

611
00:39:27,737 --> 00:39:29,770
part of the parcel and then there's

612
00:39:29,837 --> 00:39:31,640
open space on the rest of the parcel.

613
00:39:31,707 --> 00:39:34,270
This is also something that we looked
at a little bit,

614
00:39:34,337 --> 00:39:39,870
um, and are thinking about as we're
looking at some of the zoning

615
00:39:39,937 --> 00:39:45,930
changes and thinking through our
flexible development bylaw,

616
00:39:45,997 --> 00:39:50,370
Our flexible development bylaw is
probably the closest thing we have

617
00:39:50,437 --> 00:39:54,970
right now in Middleton to an open
space, um, development, residential

618
00:39:55,037 --> 00:39:58,970
development, but it encourages
essentially, um, homes closer

619
00:39:59,037 --> 00:39:59,966
together on smaller

620
00:40:00,033 --> 00:40:02,896
lots or smaller parcels

621
00:40:02,963 --> 00:40:05,326
with open space um

622
00:40:05,393 --> 00:40:09,846
can be really useful especially if
there's wet wetlands

623
00:40:09,913 --> 00:40:14,203
or um parts of the land that are just
not as developable.

624
00:40:15,533 --> 00:40:19,656
I did want to just look briefly at

625
00:40:19,723 --> 00:40:20,933
[clicking]

626
00:40:21,133 --> 00:40:25,126
um 49 Locus Street.

627
00:40:25,193 --> 00:40:30,166
So, the 49 Locus Street, um, property
right now

628
00:40:30,233 --> 00:40:34,666
is is town-owned, and there were some
discussions

629
00:40:34,733 --> 00:40:37,566
uh before actually I started here.

630
00:40:37,633 --> 00:40:41,466
So anybody who has more information,
please feel free to jump in,

631
00:40:41,533 --> 00:40:44,866
but this is to my knowledge, there
were some conversation about um

632
00:40:44,933 --> 00:40:48,966
potential residential development on
that property what that could look
like.

633
00:40:49,033 --> 00:40:52,566
It is um right now zone residential
undeveloped.

634
00:40:52,633 --> 00:40:58,266
And there are uh there's a pretty
significant wetlands um on the
property,

635
00:40:58,333 --> 00:41:02,866
it also, I think, abuts uh town
conservation land

636
00:41:02,933 --> 00:41:04,733
that would stay conservation land.

637
00:41:09,133 --> 00:41:14,433
You could kind of see the um yellow
on here is

638
00:41:16,133 --> 00:41:17,933
I believe

639
00:41:19,433 --> 00:41:21,966
You know what, we're going to leave
that.

640
00:41:22,033 --> 00:41:23,433
I don't want to misspeak.

641
00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:26,533
Um so there were two

642
00:41:27,433 --> 00:41:30,666
kind of two um

643
00:41:30,733 --> 00:41:33,566
plot plans engineered to see about

644
00:41:33,633 --> 00:41:36,866
about how many

645
00:41:36,933 --> 00:41:43,166
single family or um actually some of
these do a single family

646
00:41:43,233 --> 00:41:44,366
and a two-family.

647
00:41:44,433 --> 00:41:47,866
Um option,

648
00:41:47,933 --> 00:41:52,387
but essentially looking at this
parcel to see what it would look like
if

649
00:41:52,454 --> 00:41:58,366
there was um flexibility in the
zoning to allow for

650
00:41:58,433 --> 00:42:04,066
something like the flex development
so smaller lot sizes um

651
00:42:04,133 --> 00:42:07,887
and leaving some open space.

652
00:42:07,954 --> 00:42:12,366
So this is one example, this has, I
believe, 12 lots.

653
00:42:12,433 --> 00:42:17,366
Um, some of these I think were
modeled as two-family lots.

654
00:42:17,433 --> 00:42:24,066
So I think it was 18 units would
still be on um this overall plan.

655
00:42:24,133 --> 00:42:28,433
And just so we can kind of get a
visual of what it would look like.

656
00:42:30,633 --> 00:42:37,166
And then the other scenario that
would be um all single-family would
be

657
00:42:37,233 --> 00:42:42,866
again, um 18 or a total of 17, excuse
me,

658
00:42:42,933 --> 00:42:48,966
17 homes, um each on a single single
kind of lot,

659
00:42:49,033 --> 00:42:53,166
but I think in this scenario, it it
could have gone it could have.

660
00:42:53,233 --> 00:42:58,966
I think this was developed with the
idea that it would be a um common

661
00:42:59,033 --> 00:43:03,566
co-owned, so it would be a common
ownership of utilities.

662
00:43:03,633 --> 00:43:06,933
Um, including a septic, common
septic.

663
00:43:10,833 --> 00:43:15,133
Does that maximize all of the
developable land on that parcel?

664
00:43:17,533 --> 00:43:22,466
Um, most likely, yes, these plans
would try and maximize

665
00:43:22,533 --> 00:43:24,066
the developable land.

666
00:43:24,133 --> 00:43:27,966
Um, there is this back part of the
parcel is a lot of wetlands.

667
00:43:28,033 --> 00:43:30,233
Yeah.

668
00:43:30,633 --> 00:43:36,866
Um, this was developed obviously with
not strict, like this this
development

669
00:43:36,933 --> 00:43:40,066
right here would require variances
from our current zoning

670
00:43:40,133 --> 00:43:42,033
um on lot size.

671
00:43:42,173 --> 00:43:45,106
And so that was one of the things,
one of the reasons why

672
00:43:45,173 --> 00:43:47,506
I started thinking about this parcel.

673
00:43:47,573 --> 00:43:49,566
Um,

674
00:43:49,633 --> 00:43:53,833
but yes, developable land is mostly
on the front side of the parcel.

675
00:43:54,033 --> 00:43:54,866
Uh, and

676
00:43:54,933 --> 00:44:01,833
the land across the way that jets out
in that rectangle,

677
00:44:02,133 --> 00:44:07,933
there is developable land there where
your cursor is.

678
00:44:08,733 --> 00:44:15,166
So, because this land was originally
bought to build a school on and part
of

679
00:44:15,233 --> 00:44:16,966
the school facilities

680
00:44:17,033 --> 00:44:21,466
would have been in that triangle, in
that rectangle rather.

681
00:44:21,533 --> 00:44:28,166
So, the answer to the when this
question, does it maximize the use of
the

682
00:44:28,233 --> 00:44:30,333
developable land? The answer is no.

683
00:44:35,733 --> 00:44:37,066
Thank you.

684
00:44:41,723 --> 00:44:45,856
somebody came and presented this,
what, like a year and a half, two
years ago to

685
00:44:45,923 --> 00:44:48,466
the select board? I don't remember if
he got into that or I don't remember
if any

686
00:44:48,533 --> 00:44:50,566
guidance from the select board in
terms of that one.

687
00:44:50,633 --> 00:44:56,366
Uh, the issue of, you know,
maximizing the development was not

688
00:44:56,433 --> 00:44:59,533
thought of or asked.

689
00:45:06,183 --> 00:45:09,643
So, I want to bring up, um,

690
00:45:10,543 --> 00:45:13,876
or I guess I would like to just ask.

691
00:45:13,943 --> 00:45:15,896
So if we were going to walk through,

692
00:45:15,963 --> 00:45:19,306
Bill, I brought you back on the
screen.

693
00:45:19,373 --> 00:45:21,046
I had you off for a minute while I
showed the slides,

694
00:45:21,113 --> 00:45:23,613
but you're you're back on the screen.

695
00:45:24,523 --> 00:45:27,016
Um, so if we wanted to look and try
and think

696
00:45:27,083 --> 00:45:30,093
about, okay, how

697
00:45:31,093 --> 00:45:36,323
thinking that there's already, um,

698
00:45:36,593 --> 00:45:39,526
you know, a hopeful plan that maybe
this land would be

699
00:45:39,593 --> 00:45:44,166
developed as a residential, um,
community in the future.

700
00:45:44,233 --> 00:45:47,346
And thinking the town does have, um,

701
00:45:47,413 --> 00:45:50,046
you know, currently it's town owned,

702
00:45:50,113 --> 00:45:52,446
but that there could be possibility
for development

703
00:45:52,513 --> 00:45:54,473
in the future.

704
00:45:54,943 --> 00:45:58,296
How would you walk us through sort of
looking at those

705
00:45:58,363 --> 00:46:01,726
incentives, determining how we might
go about, um,

706
00:46:01,793 --> 00:46:06,933
thinking about, you know, how would
we maximize

707
00:46:07,813 --> 00:46:12,913
I guess what we may be able to use
the zoning for.

708
00:46:13,143 --> 00:46:15,776
One of the things that is interesting
to me is,

709
00:46:15,843 --> 00:46:19,506
um, around the design guidelines
actually

710
00:46:19,573 --> 00:46:22,386
and it was really helpful that you
went through that

711
00:46:22,453 --> 00:46:25,756
because I think, um, normally
residential properties

712
00:46:25,823 --> 00:46:30,273
the town does not review those plans.

713
00:46:30,433 --> 00:46:32,446
Um, if it comes in as a subdivision,

714
00:46:32,513 --> 00:46:34,656
we do review a subdivision plan,

715
00:46:34,723 --> 00:46:38,796
but we don't apply design guidelines,

716
00:46:38,863 --> 00:46:43,873
and we don't have necessarily a site
plan review for, um,

717
00:46:47,563 --> 00:46:50,846
And so I'm curious how how we might
be able to think

718
00:46:50,913 --> 00:46:53,846
if we wanted to think about, okay,
would this be worthwhile,

719
00:46:53,913 --> 00:46:56,506
is this something that we should sit
down and walk

720
00:46:56,573 --> 00:46:57,956
through some calculations,

721
00:46:58,023 --> 00:47:02,286
is there an engineering plan that we
would need to look at

722
00:47:02,353 --> 00:47:05,066
and and yeah, could you offer a
little bit of, you know,

723
00:47:05,133 --> 00:47:07,466
where would you start if if this was
if you were starting

724
00:47:07,533 --> 00:47:10,213
from a parcel.

725
00:47:12,753 --> 00:47:15,306
Uh, well, I guess, you know, there
there'd be some sort of

726
00:47:15,373 --> 00:47:18,386
preliminary questions that I think
need to be answered

727
00:47:18,453 --> 00:47:22,716
like, does the, you know, is the is
the, you know,

728
00:47:22,783 --> 00:47:27,726
statutes, uh, limitations on
affordable housing, uh,

729
00:47:27,793 --> 00:47:32,366
is that, uh, does that does that
compatible with what the

730
00:47:32,433 --> 00:47:36,373
the hopes and dreams are for this
parcel?

731
00:47:36,823 --> 00:47:39,426
Um, you know, if not, uh,

732
00:47:39,493 --> 00:47:42,466
could there be uh incentives, uh,
would that be something,

733
00:47:42,533 --> 00:47:47,213
uh, you know, density bonuses within
the within the 40R?

734
00:47:47,503 --> 00:47:49,966
Um, although again, I admit you know,

735
00:47:50,033 --> 00:47:52,366
again, there there may be uh, you
know, because the

736
00:47:52,433 --> 00:47:53,566
town owns the land,

737
00:47:53,633 --> 00:47:57,786
uh, it may be a different, uh,
situation because,

738
00:47:57,853 --> 00:48:00,636
um, you know, can place conditions on
the sale

739
00:48:00,703 --> 00:48:03,406
of that land through our RFP process.

740
00:48:03,473 --> 00:48:05,633
through our RFP process.

741
00:48:05,803 --> 00:48:08,586
Um, but we would certainly want to
uh, review that

742
00:48:08,653 --> 00:48:11,976
and have an understanding of that,

743
00:48:12,043 --> 00:48:14,586
and that would be part of our
rationale, I think for

744
00:48:14,653 --> 00:48:17,546
in this in this kind of scenario,

745
00:48:17,613 --> 00:48:22,716
um, maybe conditioning the zoning
incentive payment on,

746
00:48:22,783 --> 00:48:26,506
uh, evidence of, you know, a
corresponding number of

747
00:48:26,573 --> 00:48:29,576
starter homes actually constructed,
rather than

748
00:48:29,643 --> 00:48:32,953
being something that we we issue up
front.

749
00:48:34,013 --> 00:48:38,216
Um, uh, you know, beyond, um, that, I
mean, you know,

750
00:48:38,283 --> 00:48:41,186
generally how we approach a situation
like this.

751
00:48:41,253 --> 00:48:43,306
I mean, I my, my analogy is

752
00:48:43,373 --> 00:48:46,976
uh, really with with 40R is we, we
come up with a

753
00:48:47,043 --> 00:48:50,986
developable land figure.

754
00:48:51,053 --> 00:48:54,566
And we multiply that by the required
density minimum, uh,

755
00:48:54,633 --> 00:48:58,223
which in this case is four.

756
00:48:58,293 --> 00:49:02,006
And that is the number of units that
we are expecting,

757
00:49:02,073 --> 00:49:06,683
uh, the zoning would allow by right.

758
00:49:07,443 --> 00:49:11,126
Um, and if there are other standards
and controls that

759
00:49:11,193 --> 00:49:14,576
are going to prevent that from
happening,

760
00:49:14,643 --> 00:49:19,826
uh, we want to identify that and, uh,
understand that,

761
00:49:19,893 --> 00:49:23,666
uh, because, you know, one of my jobs
is to make sure

762
00:49:23,733 --> 00:49:26,506
that we don't, um,

763
00:49:26,573 --> 00:49:30,306
you know, pay for units that aren't
don't materialize,

764
00:49:30,373 --> 00:49:34,313
uh, if if to put it indelicately.

765
00:49:34,933 --> 00:49:37,283
Um, or to to minimize that.

766
00:49:39,663 --> 00:49:42,886
Uh, you know, I, I mean, I sent that
spreadsheet along,

767
00:49:42,953 --> 00:49:46,296
uh, that is our working draft of our
spreadsheet in terms

768
00:49:46,363 --> 00:49:48,846
of, uh, looking at this, um,

769
00:49:48,913 --> 00:49:52,376
there, you know, obviously are other
factors that can

770
00:49:52,443 --> 00:49:54,636
come into play in terms of,

771
00:49:54,703 --> 00:50:00,286
uh, um, you know,

772
00:50:00,353 --> 00:50:07,353
What infrastructure needs to be uh,
you know, you know, I don't know if

773
00:50:07,773 --> 00:50:11,126
if there's been any discussions with
developers. I assume this this parcel

774
00:50:11,193 --> 00:50:13,416
has no public sewer. So, um, you
know,

775
00:50:13,483 --> 00:50:19,306
uh, how the how the um, the septic is
going to be handled.

776
00:50:19,373 --> 00:50:24,526
Um, and what how that might relate to
uh, the capacity.

777
00:50:24,593 --> 00:50:29,323
Um, of the of the uh, parcel.

778
00:50:29,653 --> 00:50:34,606
Um, beyond that, uh, it's really
drafting zoning.

779
00:50:34,673 --> 00:50:39,976
I mean, uh, I I think in a situation
like this, the at the end of the day,

780
00:50:40,043 --> 00:50:45,676
um, you know, the uh, because it's
publicly owned land,

781
00:50:45,743 --> 00:50:50,826
um, we do have the discretion to
condition the zoning incentive
payment

782
00:50:50,893 --> 00:50:56,076
and we would likely uh, exercise that
in this situation

783
00:50:56,143 --> 00:50:58,726
unless we're pretty confident, um,

784
00:50:58,793 --> 00:51:04,406
what the you know, what number of
units we're going to ultimately be
built,

785
00:51:04,473 --> 00:51:07,433
um, or could be built on the parcel.

786
00:51:08,093 --> 00:51:14,486
Um, you know, beyond the spreadsheet,
I really uh, I don't I don't have
much

787
00:51:14,553 --> 00:51:15,506
direction to provide at this point.

788
00:51:15,573 --> 00:51:22,573
Um, it's usually, I will say it is
sort of an iterative process. I mean,
the application itself is pretty
simple.

789
00:51:22,873 --> 00:51:29,873
It's like give us a map of the
location, identify uh, the upland
area,

790
00:51:30,453 --> 00:51:33,416
um, based on the definition of the
developable land.

791
00:51:33,483 --> 00:51:38,003
I can I I can forward that from the
regulations.

792
00:51:38,863 --> 00:51:45,283
Um, and, you know, fill out that
spreadsheet that I provided you with.

793
00:51:45,663 --> 00:51:52,006
Um, and that's our uh, you know, out
of that, we would issue an
eligibility letter

794
00:51:52,073 --> 00:51:56,526
that would um, you know, condition it

795
00:51:56,593 --> 00:51:59,793
uh, condition the district as
necessary,

796
00:51:59,913 --> 00:52:04,606
Um, uh, and by the district, I mean,
you know, sort of the

797
00:52:04,673 --> 00:52:08,623
any any restrictions on the pay on
the payments.

798
00:52:08,853 --> 00:52:14,346
Um, as I said, if there was
significant infrastructure that
needed to be,

799
00:52:14,413 --> 00:52:20,636
you know, if the town was going to
require a sidewalk or something
connecting to,

800
00:52:20,703 --> 00:52:23,686
um, you know, adjacent nearby
sidewalks or something like that,

801
00:52:23,753 --> 00:52:27,166
um, and it wasn't clear that, um,

802
00:52:27,233 --> 00:52:31,776
that was going to be something that a
builder could easily accommodate.

803
00:52:31,843 --> 00:52:35,776
Um, you know, we might condition the
payment on that, uh,

804
00:52:35,843 --> 00:52:38,976
uh, there could be a variety of
reasons.

805
00:52:39,043 --> 00:52:45,413
Um, but that's I will say that in
general, um,

806
00:52:45,673 --> 00:52:50,066
where we're not issuing a payment
upfront prior to construction,

807
00:52:50,133 --> 00:52:53,913
we do we are able to be a little more
flexible.

808
00:52:54,703 --> 00:52:59,273
Um, if that's, you know, just as a
sort of a general comment.

809
00:52:59,453 --> 00:53:00,286
Um,

810
00:53:00,353 --> 00:53:02,116
Yeah. No, that's that's helpful.

811
00:53:02,183 --> 00:53:07,436
And I I think you answered my
question and certainly this is a very
hypothetical conversation.

812
00:53:07,503 --> 00:53:09,586
I wanted to bring this one, this

813
00:53:09,653 --> 00:53:12,386
particular parcel as a way to

814
00:53:12,453 --> 00:53:14,056
sort of understand the zoning,

815
00:53:14,123 --> 00:53:16,086
how we could apply it. I I think

816
00:53:16,153 --> 00:53:19,386
we would be uh, pretty far off if

817
00:53:19,453 --> 00:53:21,583
we were going to move in that
direction.

818
00:53:21,753 --> 00:53:25,826
Um, to actually, to actually looking
at, um, passing zoning.

819
00:53:25,893 --> 00:53:27,206
Yeah. Yeah.

820
00:53:27,273 --> 00:53:28,596
I mean,

821
00:53:28,663 --> 00:53:33,896
I think, you know, my advice to
communities generally and and I, you
know, there are

822
00:53:33,963 --> 00:53:39,176
uh, you know, there's some quite a
few similarities with 40R.

823
00:53:39,243 --> 00:53:40,093
There are differences,

824
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,236
but, you know,

825
00:53:41,303 --> 00:53:45,436
Um, uh, the money's can be, you know,
is it helps, it's nice,

826
00:53:45,503 --> 00:53:49,016
but it's it's not enough at the
moment anyway to be a driving factor.

827
00:53:49,083 --> 00:53:51,666
I would figure out what the town's
priorities are

828
00:53:51,733 --> 00:53:55,316
and uh, how they'd like to see this
site developed

829
00:53:55,383 --> 00:53:57,046
and then see if we can marry that

830
00:53:57,113 --> 00:53:59,166
with the program.

831
00:53:59,233 --> 00:54:00,606
Um,

832
00:54:00,673 --> 00:54:02,573
Uh,

833
00:54:02,793 --> 00:54:04,763
Yeah. You know, but

834
00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:07,443
Well, thank you so much.

835
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:11,436
I really appreciate your time. I want
to, I'm looking at

836
00:54:11,503 --> 00:54:14,056
we're we're about at 7 right now. So
thank you,

837
00:54:14,123 --> 00:54:16,596
thank you so much for for joining us
tonight.

838
00:54:16,663 --> 00:54:18,656
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank
you.

839
00:54:18,723 --> 00:54:21,286
Thank you. Thank you, Bill.

840
00:54:21,353 --> 00:54:24,066
Thank you all and uh, you have my
email,

841
00:54:24,133 --> 00:54:26,526
feel free to reach out and as I said,

842
00:54:26,593 --> 00:54:29,996
I can follow up with uh, that
definition of regula

843
00:54:30,063 --> 00:54:32,846
uh, the regulatory definition of
developable land.

844
00:54:32,913 --> 00:54:35,333
Uh, that's helpful.

845
00:54:35,983 --> 00:54:39,936
Um, and anything else, uh, that may,
um,

846
00:54:40,003 --> 00:54:45,503
help you uh, figure this out, um, and
whether it's something that you're
interested in and want to proceed
with.

847
00:54:46,423 --> 00:54:48,033
Thank you so much.

848
00:54:48,463 --> 00:54:49,956
Thank you. Yeah.

849
00:54:50,023 --> 00:54:52,053
Bye. Hi. Bye.

850
00:54:54,703 --> 00:54:55,536
[chime]

851
00:54:55,793 --> 00:55:00,143
Do you want to have anything else,
Anna? Should I go?

852
00:55:00,377 --> 00:55:01,320
to the rest of the agenda.

853
00:55:01,387 --> 00:55:02,220
Yeah, you can go on.

854
00:55:02,287 --> 00:55:08,157
I didn't know if anybody in the
audience had anything to say before I
go on to the rest of the affordable
housing trust agenda.

855
00:55:09,487 --> 00:55:14,030
Got one question, maybe it was better
for hand, but we could always follow
up sometime.

856
00:55:14,097 --> 00:55:15,797
Just make sure I have this right.

857
00:55:16,087 --> 00:55:19,030
So the state's going to make two
payments on this.

858
00:55:19,097 --> 00:55:23,637
If the town approves the district,
then we get paid

859
00:55:23,887 --> 00:55:27,707
and once it's developed and they're
actually built, then we get paid
again.

860
00:55:28,207 --> 00:55:29,470
So it seem about right?

861
00:55:29,537 --> 00:55:31,660
Maybe they said. I said maybe.

862
00:55:31,727 --> 00:55:34,670
I thought I heard maybe. A big maybe
in there.

863
00:55:34,737 --> 00:55:37,600
And I didn't get to ask him. I think
you asked the question,

864
00:55:37,667 --> 00:55:39,800
but then we were holding it to the
end.

865
00:55:39,867 --> 00:55:40,700
You asked how it was going to come in
and out.

866
00:55:40,767 --> 00:55:42,623
I really didn't get that clarity

867
00:55:42,690 --> 00:55:44,400
that I think you were looking for
too.

868
00:55:46,310 --> 00:55:49,063
So I'm just, you know, I'm I'm I'm
looking at that

869
00:55:49,130 --> 00:55:54,810
in relation to the public land we
have at 49.

870
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,973
just wondering like, okay, say we
approved this district

871
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,663
and we get the $10,000 bonus

872
00:56:01,730 --> 00:56:05,973
because we increased the amount of
starter homes that would go in there.

873
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,103
In which place up in Locus you're
talking about?

874
00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:09,483
Or you talking someone, Okay. I
didn't

875
00:56:09,550 --> 00:56:11,263
Or anything. I didn't hear you
saying.

876
00:56:11,330 --> 00:56:13,150
hypothetical. Got you.

877
00:56:15,790 --> 00:56:16,943
And then it gets sold to a developer.

878
00:56:17,010 --> 00:56:20,260
Now the developer decides, you know
what,

879
00:56:20,430 --> 00:56:22,890
I'm going to build big houses.

880
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,493
Do we still get to re

881
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,453
I think that would be a question for
him if we ever do approve this.

882
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,573
I mean, do we still get to keep that
money even though the developer

883
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,683
came in and said, I'm not going to
I'm not I don't care about that

884
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:35,263
zoning and I'm going to stick with
the old zoning.

885
00:56:35,330 --> 00:56:39,860
Does it are you imagining like a
special permit situation?

886
00:56:40,650 --> 00:56:42,670
Like how would how would that

887
00:56:42,990 --> 00:56:46,583
Well, it seemed like the town would
get one payment if we approved

888
00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:47,963
any area

889
00:56:48,030 --> 00:56:49,783
Yeah. For this particular zoning.

890
00:56:49,850 --> 00:56:50,683
Yeah.

891
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:53,340
Okay. So the town could approve it,

892
00:56:55,700 --> 00:56:57,050
we get paid

893
00:56:57,630 --> 00:57:00,953
And then the builder comes in and
says, you know what,

894
00:57:01,020 --> 00:57:03,103
I don't care. I don't want to build
four houses.

895
00:57:03,170 --> 00:57:05,270
There I'm going to build one monster.

896
00:57:05,350 --> 00:57:06,343
But we've already changed the zoning.

897
00:57:06,410 --> 00:57:07,693
we can put we can put restrictions on
it.

898
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:08,973
That's that's that.

899
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,673
That's a whole thing we can put we
can put our restriction on it.

900
00:57:11,740 --> 00:57:15,723
If we sell it to them, he has to do
it by this cluster zoning.

901
00:57:15,790 --> 00:57:17,933
That's if we own the land.

902
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,593
Now if he gets somebody off off the
street don't own it, then no.

903
00:57:21,660 --> 00:57:24,213
Well then ance to pull that.

904
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,383
Exactly. We can't do it by right.

905
00:57:26,450 --> 00:57:27,283
Right. Exactly.

906
00:57:27,350 --> 00:57:28,743
It's going to be more costly.

907
00:57:28,810 --> 00:57:32,363
There's going to be chances for the
neighbors to show up and argue.

908
00:57:32,430 --> 00:57:35,313
Like the advantage of this is that it
creates zoning that

909
00:57:35,380 --> 00:57:39,940
would produce smaller houses. Right.

910
00:57:40,310 --> 00:57:42,083
That's the that's the actual pitch.

911
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:46,643
As if if people are are worried about

912
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:51,963
the giant houses going in that take
up as much of the lot as they like,

913
00:57:52,030 --> 00:57:54,283
yeah, we we all see how big the pits
are

914
00:57:54,350 --> 00:57:57,290
that are being dug along Forest
Street.

915
00:57:57,670 --> 00:58:00,700
Right, that's what I think the
advantage of this is.

916
00:58:01,690 --> 00:58:04,463
Except cramming four houses for
affordable houses.

917
00:58:04,530 --> 00:58:06,090
Right, right. That doesn't mean that.

918
00:58:06,157 --> 00:58:06,990
Yeah.

919
00:58:07,057 --> 00:58:07,890
Yeah.

920
00:58:07,957 --> 00:58:09,290
Yeah.

921
00:58:10,397 --> 00:58:12,680
Oh, we get a lot of people who
complain anytime anything is

922
00:58:12,747 --> 00:58:15,170
pitched as affordable though, also,
right?

923
00:58:15,237 --> 00:58:17,000
So that's not a necessarily a
downside.

924
00:58:17,067 --> 00:58:18,620
That could be an upside for a lot of
people.

925
00:58:18,687 --> 00:58:20,440
like cost of interest. I think that's
what he was saying.

926
00:58:20,507 --> 00:58:21,510
Okay, yeah.

927
00:58:21,577 --> 00:58:23,077
Because, you know,

928
00:58:23,997 --> 00:58:27,060
A starter home, right, is something
that, yeah,

929
00:58:27,127 --> 00:58:33,177
a family just starting out in their
life can afford to live in.

930
00:58:33,687 --> 00:58:36,980
But an 1850 square foot house

931
00:58:37,047 --> 00:58:41,460
is not that sell for 700 or 1.5
million,

932
00:58:41,527 --> 00:58:44,797
depending on the finishes, you know,
etc.

933
00:58:47,867 --> 00:58:54,760
So calling them starter homes without
a price cap on it,

934
00:58:54,827 --> 00:58:55,750
Right.

935
00:58:55,817 --> 00:58:58,070
doesn't accomplish anything as far as
I'm concerned.

936
00:58:58,137 --> 00:59:00,250
That's why you had that question in
the beginning,

937
00:59:00,317 --> 00:59:01,860
how'd you come up with that?

938
00:59:01,927 --> 00:59:04,777
You just you end up with smaller
houses.

939
00:59:04,977 --> 00:59:07,550
But not necessarily somebody in their
twenties

940
00:59:07,617 --> 00:59:10,007
or thirties can afford.

941
00:59:10,397 --> 00:59:14,267
And, well, it's still more
affordable.

942
00:59:15,027 --> 00:59:17,227
It's $300 a foot to build a house.

943
00:59:18,547 --> 00:59:21,730
If you're going to be able to build
four houses

944
00:59:21,797 --> 00:59:26,580
somewhere where normally you'd only
be building one.

945
00:59:26,647 --> 00:59:30,657
Now you can take that land cost and
divide it between four.

946
00:59:31,737 --> 00:59:36,377
So you're probably looking at a
$550,000 build.

947
00:59:37,047 --> 00:59:40,227
And now you got a $400,000 lot

948
00:59:40,887 --> 00:59:43,887
but now you can put four houses there
instead of one.

949
00:59:44,867 --> 00:59:49,367
So you're looking at a cost of the
build of probably around 650.

950
00:59:50,207 --> 00:59:52,717
And he's going to sell it for 80.

951
00:59:52,907 --> 00:59:54,367
That's not affordable.

952
00:59:55,157 --> 00:59:58,080
But it's way cheaper than what's
available than now.

953
00:59:58,147 --> 01:00:00,237
It's still a good. I mean, it's still

954
01:00:00,653 --> 01:00:03,123
other than the 1.1 that stuff is
going for, so

955
01:00:04,198 --> 01:00:06,701
Not much different. still not
affordable.

956
01:00:06,768 --> 01:00:07,601
It's not.

957
01:00:07,668 --> 01:00:12,334
Affordable affordable housing in
Massachusetts right now, they
consider is $538,000.

958
01:00:12,401 --> 01:00:14,194
Yeah, not the 800.

959
01:00:14,261 --> 01:00:16,054
That's that's what they consider an
affordable house.

960
01:00:16,121 --> 01:00:16,954
Right.

961
01:00:17,021 --> 01:00:24,021
Now, that could be, you know, like my
home on PB stre I have two houses
there. One in the back's worth more
than the one in the front.

962
01:00:25,561 --> 01:00:26,394
M.

963
01:00:26,461 --> 01:00:28,474
So, you know, I also got three acres.

964
01:00:28,541 --> 01:00:32,084
So I could turn both down, I got
three clean acres.

965
01:00:32,151 --> 01:00:36,121
And I can put up, you know, 12, 12
houses if I want to.

966
01:00:36,601 --> 01:00:40,714
I wouldn't because it's not feasible
for me because of the cost.

967
01:00:40,781 --> 01:00:41,614
Mhm.

968
01:00:41,681 --> 01:00:43,794
Because if you want to make it
affordable,

969
01:00:43,861 --> 01:00:48,601
right? You, you know, you get to sell
the houses here's talking about
affordable affordability.

970
01:00:48,981 --> 01:00:52,631
Massachusetts is $538,000 for
affordability right now.

971
01:00:52,841 --> 01:00:56,554
So, it's the way that it's going back
and forth.

972
01:00:56,621 --> 01:00:57,454
It's

973
01:00:57,521 --> 01:01:02,771
for for the house, I mean, 1800, 1850
square foot house. I'm sorry. I don't
think that's a big house.

974
01:01:03,331 --> 01:01:04,784
Some people might think it is huge.

975
01:01:04,851 --> 01:01:07,284
But he's saying the cost of In the
day, there was a big house.

976
01:01:07,351 --> 01:01:12,701
It was a big house. Now it's not you
got you got 12, 13,000 square foot
houses now going up in Middleton.

977
01:01:12,801 --> 01:01:13,884
18,000 square.

978
01:01:13,951 --> 01:01:17,614
is the objective to maximize the
revenue to the town,

979
01:01:17,681 --> 01:01:19,094
or is the objective to make
affordable housing?

980
01:01:19,161 --> 01:01:24,201
I think we're trying to maximize the
revenue to the town. That's the whole
idea of the incentive goes.

981
01:01:24,711 --> 01:01:30,754
And now you got four houses on a lot
where one might normally be, now you
got a ton more property taxes as
well.

982
01:01:30,821 --> 01:01:34,661
Well, if we wanted to maximize the
revenue to the town, we would be

983
01:01:35,001 --> 01:01:38,034
zoning for multifamily, we wouldn't
be zoning for small houses

984
01:01:38,101 --> 01:01:44,054
that support actual family, single
family life.

985
01:01:44,121 --> 01:01:47,661
That doesn't maximize taxes to the
town.

986
01:01:49,081 --> 01:01:54,054
Yeah, if you think about you put four
houses on one acre at 1850 square
feet.

987
01:01:54,121 --> 01:01:55,234
Right? Add that up.

988
01:01:55,301 --> 01:02:01,051
Someone could put up a, you know,
someone could put up a 12,000 square
foot house in one lot.

989
01:02:01,151 --> 01:02:05,081
Right? Their taxes, you know, the tax
revenue's going to be the same.

990
01:02:05,316 --> 01:02:06,149
Potentially.

991
01:02:06,216 --> 01:02:13,216
I don't know, they're like an acre in
my neighborhood and you're looking
typically at like a 4,000 square foot
house.

992
01:02:13,636 --> 01:02:14,969
Mhm.

993
01:02:15,556 --> 01:02:20,729
Yeah, like they just sold they just
sold they just sold a lot, the last
lot down in Kochie, they sold for
$988,000.

994
01:02:20,796 --> 01:02:21,629
Just for a lot.

995
01:02:21,696 --> 01:02:22,529
Yes for a lot.

996
01:02:22,596 --> 01:02:23,429
It's for a lot.

997
01:02:23,496 --> 01:02:28,002
Reds getting lot uh upon uh up off of
Kimka.

998
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:28,902
Simka, yeah.

999
01:02:28,969 --> 01:02:31,492
They're getting lots for they're
getting lots for they're getting lots
for over a million dollars just for a
lot.

1000
01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:37,982
So then you have to put 1, two, two
acre lots, 10 units on it just to get
something down to affordable.

1001
01:02:38,049 --> 01:02:41,282
Like the only way we're going to get
the numbers that you're imagine

1002
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:46,649
that that people are batting around
as affordable is small apartments in
large buildings.

1003
01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:51,372
I think that there's a real appetite
in the town to

1004
01:02:51,439 --> 01:02:56,732
not to be in that middle area.

1005
01:02:56,799 --> 01:03:00,532
Where maybe it's not as cheap as we
might want, but

1006
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:05,439
there's the option to have things you
can't get other places.

1007
01:03:06,229 --> 01:03:08,452
A small apartment in a large
building?

1008
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:09,352
That's what you're saying?

1009
01:03:09,419 --> 01:03:15,402
No, no, I for I was trying to in
support of the starter home idea.

1010
01:03:15,469 --> 01:03:19,262
Is these are things that are just not
going to be built if we're trying to
maximize profits.

1011
01:03:19,329 --> 01:03:25,262
Or if we're trying to maximize or if
you just let people build everything
they could possibly want,

1012
01:03:25,329 --> 01:03:29,239
they're either going to it's either
going to it's either going to be
super rich people building huge
buildings.

1013
01:03:29,509 --> 01:03:35,139
Or it's going to be developers
building as many units as the sewage
will support.

1014
01:03:35,449 --> 01:03:36,282
The septic will support.

1015
01:03:36,349 --> 01:03:37,202
Septic. Yes.

1016
01:03:37,269 --> 01:03:40,942
Around here. I I was trying to be
generic. There are places where

1017
01:03:41,009 --> 01:03:42,342
I know.

1018
01:03:43,459 --> 01:03:44,949
pool.

1019
01:03:45,709 --> 01:03:52,709
But the this is more about a a
stronger hand in shaping a community
where

1020
01:03:54,209 --> 01:03:59,242
families that yeah, they're not it's
not it's not going to be people who
are working minimum wage jobs

1021
01:03:59,309 --> 01:04:02,002
who are affording these buildings.

1022
01:04:02,069 --> 01:04:06,749
But it is going to be people working
ordinary white collar jobs.

1023
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:12,399
Ordinary union jobs are going to be
able to afford a house like this
still.

1024
01:04:12,539 --> 01:04:13,542
Well,

1025
01:04:13,609 --> 01:04:14,442
Yep.

1026
01:04:14,509 --> 01:04:17,059
That's So, um, do we want to move on
or?

1027
01:04:17,309 --> 01:04:21,342
Cuz I think we could Obviously go I
mean, it's interesting and we could
go on and on about it.

1028
01:04:21,409 --> 01:04:22,492
I think we're.

1029
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:26,652
We all are interested in this kind of
stuff, but we have to have some
closure.

1030
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:28,409
I think to the to the item.

1031
01:04:28,489 --> 01:04:33,669
So I I do want to make a simple point
to make a simple point to your point
about maximizing town revenue.

1032
01:04:34,259 --> 01:04:39,192
In 2008, when we had the housing
crisis and we had some problems,

1033
01:04:39,259 --> 01:04:42,089
people just gave the keys back to the
bank and they left.

1034
01:04:42,399 --> 01:04:45,589
Middleton had a serious problem in
terms of town revenue.

1035
01:04:46,149 --> 01:04:51,982
So we cannot continue to have 20,000
square foot homes because when things
get really hot and tight,

1036
01:04:52,049 --> 01:04:54,682
and they give the money back to the
back the keys back to the bank,

1037
01:04:54,749 --> 01:04:57,779
it is the people in the smaller homes
that keep the town going.

1038
01:04:58,189 --> 01:05:02,189
So I think we need as part of a
future strategy.

1039
01:05:02,362 --> 01:05:04,782
to say we would still welcome the

1040
01:05:04,849 --> 01:05:08,132
big homes, but we want to make sure
we have enough smaller homes

1041
01:05:08,199 --> 01:05:11,632
so that if there's an economic shock
in the future,

1042
01:05:11,699 --> 01:05:15,152
Middleton doesn't suddenly look in
their hole in their bank balance and
go,

1043
01:05:15,219 --> 01:05:18,685
Hmm, we have a massive hole that we
have no way to fill.

1044
01:05:18,752 --> 01:05:22,202
So by having these start up, start up
homes, I'm with you,

1045
01:05:22,269 --> 01:05:24,902
in that if we can increase the, you
know, real estate taxes,

1046
01:05:24,969 --> 01:05:29,012
the revenue, that is also a benefit
that we are looking for.

1047
01:05:29,232 --> 01:05:30,872
Okay. Thank you.

1048
01:05:31,762 --> 01:05:32,815
Okay.

1049
01:05:32,882 --> 01:05:36,002
should I take it over back to the
affordable housing trust?

1050
01:05:36,069 --> 01:05:37,752
Is that is that okay with everybody

1051
01:05:37,819 --> 01:05:40,335
unless anyone else had any further
comments, Linda?

1052
01:05:40,402 --> 01:05:42,082
Thank you all for including us.

1053
01:05:42,149 --> 01:05:45,372
Oh, you're welcome. This is a great
opportunity to learn about some.

1054
01:05:46,152 --> 01:05:48,285
It's all very interesting to all of
us, I think.

1055
01:05:48,352 --> 01:05:50,965
Like we said, we could go on and on
talking about it.

1056
01:05:51,032 --> 01:05:51,865
[laughter]

1057
01:05:51,952 --> 01:05:53,905
Thank you. Thanks for your time.

1058
01:05:53,972 --> 01:05:56,092
If you guys want to stay, you're more
than welcome.

1059
01:05:56,332 --> 01:05:57,165
[laughter]

1060
01:05:57,382 --> 01:06:00,095
That's all right. I'm here.
[laughter]

1061
01:06:00,162 --> 01:06:04,015
Thank you. This is the, this is the
public housing trust, right?

1062
01:06:04,082 --> 01:06:06,182
Affordable housing trust. Yeah.

1063
01:06:07,132 --> 01:06:08,215
Yes.

1064
01:06:08,282 --> 01:06:11,632
Um, so we go on to our agenda item.

1065
01:06:11,699 --> 01:06:16,132
The next agenda item is the annual
reorganization of the trust.

1066
01:06:16,952 --> 01:06:19,315
Um, Tom, did you did you want to make
a motion?

1067
01:06:19,382 --> 01:06:21,705
I'll I'll wait to make a motion for
the next. Oh, Richard.

1068
01:06:21,772 --> 01:06:24,902
I'd like to motion that Briann
remains as our chair,

1069
01:06:24,969 --> 01:06:26,902
Maria remains as our vice chair,

1070
01:06:26,969 --> 01:06:29,102
I remain as treasurer,

1071
01:06:29,169 --> 01:06:31,802
and Herman remains as clerk for the
next year.

1072
01:06:31,932 --> 01:06:34,885
I'll second that. All in favor? I.
Aye.

1073
01:06:34,952 --> 01:06:35,785
[laughter]

1074
01:06:37,032 --> 01:06:40,742
We'll let Brian know he is re-named.
[laughter]

1075
01:06:41,332 --> 01:06:44,475
as all item, I'm going to tell him
he's on for all four items.

1076
01:06:44,542 --> 01:06:45,862
[laughter]

1077
01:06:47,312 --> 01:06:48,215
Joking.

1078
01:06:48,282 --> 01:06:51,722
Okay, we'll go on to to approve our
minutes of May 6th.

1079
01:06:51,789 --> 01:06:55,482
Does anyone have any comments, any
edits to those minutes?

1080
01:06:55,812 --> 01:06:57,075
I'll make a motion to approve.

1081
01:06:57,142 --> 01:06:58,515
Uh, can I have a second? I'll second.

1082
01:06:58,582 --> 01:06:59,415
Beth.

1083
01:06:59,482 --> 01:07:00,315
Second.

1084
01:07:00,382 --> 01:07:02,212
All in favor? I. Aye.

1085
01:07:03,052 --> 01:07:04,065
Great.

1086
01:07:04,132 --> 01:07:07,332
So, uh, we will move on to the next
item, the working session on the

1087
01:07:07,399 --> 01:07:09,372
five-year action plan.

1088
01:07:09,862 --> 01:07:12,342
Anna, would you did you want to talk
about that?

1089
01:07:13,472 --> 01:07:16,792
Um, I don't have many updates on the
home repair program.

1090
01:07:16,972 --> 01:07:22,072
We have one project that's ongoing
and as far as I know, it's going
well.

1091
01:07:22,139 --> 01:07:25,832
I haven't gotten um, uh, like a
complete report, but when it comes

1092
01:07:25,899 --> 01:07:27,312
through, I'll bring it

1093
01:07:27,379 --> 01:07:32,532
to you all and um, I've had a few
people inquiring about the program,

1094
01:07:32,599 --> 01:07:36,632
I have not heard of any more
applications that have been
submitted.

1095
01:07:36,752 --> 01:07:39,232
That one that you just mentioned,
when will that be finishing up,

1096
01:07:39,299 --> 01:07:41,305
do you know, approximately?

1097
01:07:41,372 --> 01:07:42,615
Should be soon.

1098
01:07:42,682 --> 01:07:44,712
I would say in the next month.

1099
01:07:44,792 --> 01:07:46,095
Nice. Very good.

1100
01:07:46,162 --> 01:07:50,032
Is there any way we can post a notice
to the town that we are now

1101
01:07:50,099 --> 01:07:53,132
underway with our first project

1102
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:55,965
and try to stimulate more applicants?

1103
01:07:56,032 --> 01:07:57,005
That way?

1104
01:07:57,072 --> 01:07:59,662
I don't know whether to do it on the
Facebook page or.

1105
01:07:59,729 --> 01:08:00,562
Yeah.

1106
01:08:00,629 --> 01:08:03,332
I can put together um, a little post
and we can probably put it on our

1107
01:08:03,399 --> 01:08:05,165
socials.

1108
01:08:05,232 --> 01:08:06,155
We do have this one up, right?

1109
01:08:06,222 --> 01:08:08,695
We have this up, this one you guys
have seen.

1110
01:08:08,762 --> 01:08:09,595
Yeah.

1111
01:08:09,662 --> 01:08:11,468
Yeah, we've seen that but now we have
our first actual.

1112
01:08:11,535 --> 01:08:12,578
Yeah, actual.

1113
01:08:12,645 --> 01:08:13,478
Maybe we should update.

1114
01:08:13,545 --> 01:08:16,434
It's a real thing. Someone's using
it. It could be you. [laughter]

1115
01:08:16,501 --> 01:08:20,631
So, yes. That's a tag, good tag.
[laughter]

1116
01:08:20,831 --> 01:08:27,201
Is if there's a way to show the
improvements without identifying.

1117
01:08:27,268 --> 01:08:28,984
Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

1118
01:08:29,051 --> 01:08:29,884
That I think would be.

1119
01:08:29,951 --> 01:08:30,784
Hmm.

1120
01:08:30,851 --> 01:08:32,374
Yeah, I think we did discuss that too
before.

1121
01:08:32,441 --> 01:08:33,274
We did.

1122
01:08:33,341 --> 01:08:37,114
I think we did talk about that to
keep the privacy of the homeowner,

1123
01:08:37,181 --> 01:08:40,214
but to highlight the, you know, maybe
what was done and

1124
01:08:40,281 --> 01:08:42,544
you know, key items perhaps.

1125
01:08:42,611 --> 01:08:44,317
That's still keeping.

1126
01:08:44,384 --> 01:08:46,214
Yeah, I could do I could do that two
ways.

1127
01:08:46,281 --> 01:08:50,814
One, I could we have like in our um,
cost estimate that we approved, we

1128
01:08:50,881 --> 01:08:55,234
have the types of repairs that were
completed,

1129
01:08:55,301 --> 01:08:59,097
so I could get like a generic picture
with the those things.

1130
01:08:59,164 --> 01:08:59,997
Okay.

1131
01:09:00,064 --> 01:09:00,964
That'd be great. I think.

1132
01:09:01,031 --> 01:09:04,687
I think everyone like a picture is
worth a thousand words as they say.

1133
01:09:04,754 --> 01:09:05,587
I think that really helps.

1134
01:09:05,654 --> 01:09:06,487
Okay.

1135
01:09:06,554 --> 01:09:09,164
people see, oh, well, this is what
they did at that property,

1136
01:09:09,231 --> 01:09:11,564
that could be my house or some aspect
of that could be something

1137
01:09:11,631 --> 01:09:12,917
that I could do.

1138
01:09:12,984 --> 01:09:16,164
Versus, you know, some of this is
just like a generic, but when you

1139
01:09:16,231 --> 01:09:19,047
see, oh, this was really a place in
Middleton and this was done.

1140
01:09:19,114 --> 01:09:23,214
I think that might help people to
consider applying.

1141
01:09:24,764 --> 01:09:26,767
Anything else, Anna on that?

1142
01:09:26,834 --> 01:09:29,164
Or does anyone have any comments or
questions on that part,

1143
01:09:29,231 --> 01:09:30,937
the five-year action plan?

1144
01:09:31,004 --> 01:09:32,997
So, um, the home repair program,

1145
01:09:33,064 --> 01:09:36,864
there is a conversation that's going
to be happening, Anna's been helping

1146
01:09:36,931 --> 01:09:40,284
me with, you know, getting the agenda
together.

1147
01:09:40,374 --> 01:09:43,564
I will be talking to the seniors at
the COA about the affordable housing

1148
01:09:43,631 --> 01:09:46,937
trust home repair program.

1149
01:09:47,004 --> 01:09:50,464
Uh, in an effort to help stimulate
and get them interested in applying

1150
01:09:50,531 --> 01:09:56,177
and helping with that, so hopefully
we can drum up some interest there.

1151
01:09:56,244 --> 01:09:58,961
You're going to do that on the 21st,
I believe, I saw the email.

1152
01:09:59,054 --> 01:10:00,937
I can't remember the exact date, but
it's.

1153
01:10:01,004 --> 01:10:03,087
Oh, I saw that. But maybe it's
changing.

1154
01:10:03,154 --> 01:10:04,434
No, no, no, it's not changing, it's
just.

1155
01:10:04,501 --> 01:10:05,444
top of my mind.

1156
01:10:05,511 --> 01:10:09,044
but we're going to put together a
presentation that says, what is the
affordable housing trust?

1157
01:10:09,111 --> 01:10:13,834
What is the home repair program? How
do you apply? What does it cover?
What is it not cover?

1158
01:10:13,901 --> 01:10:20,094
What is the difference between a
grant, a loan, a lean, all these
different things?

1159
01:10:20,161 --> 01:10:27,161
And some conditions that when you do
sell the home, there may be some
restrictions based on, you know, the
amount of work that was done, if it
needs to be paid back or not, that
sort of thing.

1160
01:10:29,531 --> 01:10:35,454
So, hopefully when we finish with the
Council on aging, we can use that as
a sort of a template.

1161
01:10:35,521 --> 01:10:42,074
Right? So that if anybody else is
interested, it could probably
possibly go up on the website for
people to download and review on
their own.

1162
01:10:42,141 --> 01:10:44,085
So I think the more information we
have as well,

1163
01:10:44,152 --> 01:10:49,905
We need to reach out to the O-55
communities we have in because they
all can be eligible for this.

1164
01:10:49,972 --> 01:10:51,465
Yes. Definitely. Yes.

1165
01:10:51,532 --> 01:10:58,532
Are you going to you're going to I
know it said here in the email that
Fire Fighters are always going to be
there and yourself, but are you going
to have someone like Anna to come in
and explain?

1166
01:10:59,642 --> 01:11:05,375
So she's not going to be there
because I think, you know, we talked
about you being present and you had a
prior engagement.

1167
01:11:05,442 --> 01:11:08,605
Yes. Oh, I see. Okay. And you're all
you're okay with it all?

1168
01:11:08,672 --> 01:11:12,535
Yeah, so I'm going to continue with
Anna either this week or next week.

1169
01:11:12,602 --> 01:11:14,442
No Anna. Anna.

1170
01:11:14,552 --> 01:11:18,262
I watch too much Frozen with my
children when they were young kids.

1171
01:11:18,502 --> 01:11:24,955
Um, and when we form the
presentation, we are going to review
it to make sure that it's correct.

1172
01:11:25,022 --> 01:11:27,835
And we're not communicating anything
that we shouldn't be.

1173
01:11:27,902 --> 01:11:29,465
And then I'll do it on my own.

1174
01:11:29,532 --> 01:11:32,105
Excellent. That's great. We really
appreciate that.

1175
01:11:32,172 --> 01:11:33,005
Thank you.

1176
01:11:33,072 --> 01:11:39,335
Let us know if there's anything you
need from any of the board members,
maybe if you have questions,
especially for Anna or someone on the
board.

1177
01:11:39,402 --> 01:11:42,245
Maybe when I finish the presentation,
I'll send it out to the team for them
to review.

1178
01:11:42,312 --> 01:11:43,145
Oh, that'd be nice.

1179
01:11:43,212 --> 01:11:46,468
And then people to provide their
feedback and then we can include that
before the.

1180
01:11:46,535 --> 01:11:50,188
That'll be great. You never know
someone may have a little comment but
that might help out.

1181
01:11:50,255 --> 01:11:51,088
Great.

1182
01:11:51,155 --> 01:11:52,785
Great. Thank you.

1183
01:11:53,285 --> 01:11:55,165
Um, that's that on that.

1184
01:11:55,405 --> 01:11:58,838
Um, next is the Treasurer's
Treasurer's update.

1185
01:11:58,905 --> 01:11:59,778
Do you want to do it?

1186
01:11:59,845 --> 01:12:00,678
What do I miss?

1187
01:12:00,745 --> 01:12:01,948
The lending program?

1188
01:12:02,015 --> 01:12:03,348
Tool program.

1189
01:12:03,775 --> 01:12:06,568
Oh, I was going to do that with
should I do that with the treasures
or with this one?

1190
01:12:06,635 --> 01:12:07,468
Doesn't matter.

1191
01:12:07,535 --> 01:12:08,551
do with this one.

1192
01:12:08,618 --> 01:12:11,151
I was going to cuz you said you were
going to cuz you said you were going
to mentioning it during the treasures
report.

1193
01:12:11,218 --> 01:12:12,131
That's fine.

1194
01:12:12,198 --> 01:12:16,581
So, we had talked about the uh
Library of Things and the lending
program.

1195
01:12:16,648 --> 01:12:20,371
I handed you each, oh, hang on, let
me give you a copy, I'd give you one.

1196
01:12:20,438 --> 01:12:21,481
Not here yet.

1197
01:12:21,548 --> 01:12:26,061
I want to give you that so that you
have the um lending agreement, and I
gave one to Anna.

1198
01:12:26,128 --> 01:12:30,371
And this is basically what's at the
library presently, the tools aren't
on there yet.

1199
01:12:30,438 --> 01:12:35,541
We have allocated $3,000 to the
program for the library for the
tools.

1200
01:12:35,608 --> 01:12:36,441
Okay.

1201
01:12:36,508 --> 01:12:41,661
And I've not seen any it for FY 26 or
the first month of FY 27.

1202
01:12:42,181 --> 01:12:49,181
So Paige has told me she's tried to
communicate with you and Jackie, but
hasn't had any feedback yet, could
you make sure you get in touch with
her cuz I really like to see that put
in place.

1203
01:12:52,371 --> 01:12:56,031
Yeah. I mean, we've allocated the
money, we should have that put
together.

1204
01:12:56,751 --> 01:13:03,751
Um, so I would like to see that go
forward, perhaps you can have that
done, at least engage with her and
communicate with her.

1205
01:13:04,431 --> 01:13:11,431
Being page at the library cuz she
said she can order, she doesn't know
if she's supposed to order things,
she told me, or are you ordering the
things and sending to her at the
library.

1206
01:13:12,001 --> 01:13:16,944
But I think it should be a
collaboration since she's going to be
housing these things.

1207
01:13:17,011 --> 01:13:24,011
And and also one thing that I
mentioned to the guys down here when
we before we started was that at the
library right now on the website, you
can't find the library of things.
It's unfortunate, but they don't have
a tab yet, they're redoing their
website.

1208
01:13:30,271 --> 01:13:37,271
Presently, you have to go under the
tab for books, log into say your
account for getting books with the
library card.

1209
01:13:37,941 --> 01:13:44,824
And then remove the word books and
put in Library of Things, which is
very clunky. No one's going to really
find that in any way.

1210
01:13:44,891 --> 01:13:51,204
So they are revamping and they're
getting a new um host for the library
um website.

1211
01:13:51,271 --> 01:13:57,254
And when that's put together, they
will have a separate tab right at the
top of the the toolbar of the website
saying Library of Things.

1212
01:13:57,321 --> 01:13:59,821
So hopefully that will be coming in a
few months.

1213
01:14:00,551 --> 01:14:05,661
Um, and by then hopefully we'll have
some tools there at the library that
people can borrow.

1214
01:14:07,271 --> 01:14:10,334
So that was the item on the Library
of Things.

1215
01:14:10,401 --> 01:14:13,134
I do have two points on this lending
agreement.

1216
01:14:13,201 --> 01:14:15,744
That is was done by the attorneys for
the town.

1217
01:14:15,811 --> 01:14:17,334
So we had no play in this.

1218
01:14:17,401 --> 01:14:20,334
Agreed, but I do have some feedback
on it that I'd like to see added.

1219
01:14:20,401 --> 01:14:25,711
Yeah. Uh, the first one is they will
not lend it to a third party.

1220
01:14:26,181 --> 01:14:32,271
So, at the moment it says I'm
checking the item on my own account,
but it doesn't mention you're not to
lend it to anyone.

1221
01:14:32,381 --> 01:14:36,034
But that that is when we have no play
in this policy.

1222
01:14:36,101 --> 01:14:40,574
This is directly from the library and
the town, um attorney.

1223
01:14:40,641 --> 01:14:45,261
I mean, you can say something to
them, but we don't have authority
over their policies.

1224
01:14:45,401 --> 01:14:46,801
Yeah. I know we don't have authority.

1225
01:14:47,191 --> 01:14:54,191
Um, but if we are giving money to
rent equipment, then we should have a
say in what this looks like.

1226
01:14:54,261 --> 01:14:56,664
And to cover us from a liability
standpoint.

1227
01:14:56,731 --> 01:14:58,804
But as I said, I talked to them about
this.

1228
01:14:58,871 --> 01:15:01,364
And the attorney because I because we
did talk about this.

1229
01:15:01,431 --> 01:15:06,024
The only thing you could do is the
affordable housing trust would have
to actually hold the equipment and
lend it.

1230
01:15:06,091 --> 01:15:06,924
That's right.

1231
01:15:06,991 --> 01:15:08,857
We're not. Well, it's not our lit.

1232
01:15:08,924 --> 01:15:11,247
Because it did come up. Jason
mentioned it before

1233
01:15:11,314 --> 01:15:14,917
and we talked about this, it went
through the attorneys.

1234
01:15:14,984 --> 01:15:17,337
Okay. All right, they're satisfied
with it, but I I

1235
01:15:17,404 --> 01:15:20,167
No, I hear what. We all had some
comments on it, no question,

1236
01:15:20,234 --> 01:15:22,237
but I asked about that specifically,

1237
01:15:22,304 --> 01:15:25,467
brought that to them and they said
the attorneys have gone over that.

1238
01:15:25,534 --> 01:15:26,367
Okay.

1239
01:15:26,434 --> 01:15:28,727
And the liability of potential
liability

1240
01:15:28,794 --> 01:15:31,297
and they were satisfied with what was
put together.

1241
01:15:31,364 --> 01:15:34,827
Maybe like in everything, maybe if
things take place and

1242
01:15:34,894 --> 01:15:38,867
as things evolve with having tools,
maybe they'll modify it. I don't
know.

1243
01:15:38,934 --> 01:15:40,107
We'll see.

1244
01:15:40,174 --> 01:15:41,967
But they had it in mind when they put
it together.

1245
01:15:42,034 --> 01:15:45,347
They knew we were going to be coming
forth with tools.

1246
01:15:45,414 --> 01:15:48,387
So it's not as though they weren't
aware of that coming forward.

1247
01:15:48,454 --> 01:15:49,287
You never know.

1248
01:15:49,354 --> 01:15:54,077
Herman, they may add some things as
anything things evolved.

1249
01:15:54,907 --> 01:15:57,380
Um, any other questions about that
before we move on to

1250
01:15:57,447 --> 01:16:00,490
Richard's report or the treasure's
report?

1251
01:16:00,557 --> 01:16:03,030
go on to my report, there's two
reports that I've given you.

1252
01:16:03,097 --> 01:16:06,350
One has a draft word on my chicken
scratch.

1253
01:16:06,417 --> 01:16:08,757
[laughter]
pull up that one.

1254
01:16:08,877 --> 01:16:13,400
The other one is my final report for
FY 26, uh, when the year is done.

1255
01:16:13,467 --> 01:16:15,640
And just to wrap up the year,

1256
01:16:15,707 --> 01:16:21,870
we end, we began the year with
$306,666 of cash on hand.

1257
01:16:21,937 --> 01:16:28,630
We received interest income of
$17,138.48 for the year.

1258
01:16:28,697 --> 01:16:31,980
We had one expenditure, just $310 we
spent on marketing the tool

1259
01:16:32,047 --> 01:16:34,867
program as I said to dot come in.

1260
01:16:34,937 --> 01:16:40,930
So net, we ended the year with
$323,494.47 in cash.

1261
01:16:40,997 --> 01:16:43,960
So that closes out FY 26.

1262
01:16:44,027 --> 01:16:46,980
Um, FY 27, I'm late, a little late in
developing the budget

1263
01:16:47,047 --> 01:16:48,890
because we haven't met since May.

1264
01:16:48,957 --> 01:16:51,680
but, um, I want to try to have the
budget by the next meeting

1265
01:16:51,747 --> 01:16:53,590
have the budget done.

1266
01:16:53,657 --> 01:16:55,567
And I just did a template.

1267
01:16:56,297 --> 01:16:59,080
Uh, I started it, I put in uh, in the
top of this, the the

1268
01:16:59,147 --> 01:17:01,500
interesting come line.

1269
01:17:01,567 --> 01:17:05,510
I will be adding to this the
contribution from the CPC,

1270
01:17:05,577 --> 01:17:08,517
which we have received. I'll talk
about that in a moment.

1271
01:17:08,637 --> 01:17:11,780
For now on expenditures, I have a
$1,000 as a plug for our

1272
01:17:11,847 --> 01:17:15,140
marketing expenses, Anna.

1273
01:17:15,207 --> 01:17:17,010
Um, you can think about that a little
bit.

1274
01:17:17,077 --> 01:17:20,580
I have the home repair program in at
$50,000. Uh,

1275
01:17:20,647 --> 01:17:23,680
we only have one at the moment, but
you know, maybe we'll get some more

1276
01:17:23,747 --> 01:17:26,450
momentum on that for now.

1277
01:17:26,517 --> 01:17:30,780
Since we didn't have the tools uh,
expenditures in FY 26,

1278
01:17:30,847 --> 01:17:35,010
I put in the $3,000 for tools in FY
27.

1279
01:17:35,077 --> 01:17:36,120
So,

1280
01:17:36,187 --> 01:17:39,780
What I think we need to to think
about the the next meeting is

1281
01:17:39,847 --> 01:17:43,947
what other types of programs maybe we
want to try to budget into. Um,

1282
01:17:44,787 --> 01:17:47,580
You obviously have a good deal of
money, we should be trying to use it

1283
01:17:47,647 --> 01:17:50,750
to benefit the community as best we
can. So,

1284
01:17:50,817 --> 01:17:53,780
I ask all of us to uh, try to think
about some suggestions for our

1285
01:17:53,847 --> 01:17:56,897
next meeting that we could budget in.

1286
01:17:59,047 --> 01:18:01,980
Have we had any further conversations
with Lake Harbor Light

1287
01:18:02,047 --> 01:18:05,247
about what their wish list would be?

1288
01:18:07,317 --> 01:18:11,617
Or possible collaboration
opportunities, anything come up?

1289
01:18:12,857 --> 01:18:14,170
I have not.

1290
01:18:14,237 --> 01:18:17,077
I can certainly reach out to
reconnect with them.

1291
01:18:17,557 --> 01:18:19,707
But right now,

1292
01:18:22,617 --> 01:18:24,480
Yeah, I have not had further
conversation since our

1293
01:18:24,547 --> 01:18:26,590
meeting with them.

1294
01:18:26,657 --> 01:18:27,990
Yeah.

1295
01:18:30,197 --> 01:18:32,380
The other thing you know, I I have
not put anything on this

1296
01:18:32,447 --> 01:18:34,260
and always confuses us.

1297
01:18:34,327 --> 01:18:40,117
On the North Shore um, consortium the
$20,000.

1298
01:18:40,817 --> 01:18:43,587
I'd be putting that as potential
income source?

1299
01:18:44,157 --> 01:18:48,030
So, I would say yes, it's a potential
income source.

1300
01:18:48,097 --> 01:18:54,410
The caveat with that is that it has
to be spent on a specific project.

1301
01:18:54,477 --> 01:18:57,180
So the trust is basically the vehicle
to move that funding.

1302
01:18:57,247 --> 01:19:01,480
So we can't accept that as the trust,
we could use it on a

1303
01:19:01,547 --> 01:19:03,740
trust project.

1304
01:19:03,807 --> 01:19:06,150
So potential income source, yes.

1305
01:19:06,217 --> 01:19:08,580
We need to budget for a for a
particular project in order

1306
01:19:08,647 --> 01:19:10,580
to be able to include the income.

1307
01:19:10,647 --> 01:19:13,867
So maybe we can add something thought
about that over the next month.

1308
01:19:22,807 --> 01:19:24,140
And that's all for me.

1309
01:19:25,157 --> 01:19:26,090
Very good.

1310
01:19:26,157 --> 01:19:28,880
Any other items that anyone has
before we adjourn or

1311
01:19:28,947 --> 01:19:33,380
and also, well our next meeting we do
have scheduled for

1312
01:19:33,447 --> 01:19:37,590
October 7th for this um, agenda.

1313
01:19:37,657 --> 01:19:41,057
But does anyone have any other
comments before we adjourn?

1314
01:19:42,797 --> 01:19:44,720
No.

1315
01:19:44,787 --> 01:19:45,640
Anna?

1316
01:19:45,707 --> 01:19:47,040
No.

1317
01:19:48,047 --> 01:19:49,787
So we adjourn the meeting.

1318
01:19:50,147 --> 01:19:51,860
And thank you all for coming.

1319
01:19:51,927 --> 01:19:53,350
Appreciate that, Costa.

1320
01:19:53,417 --> 01:19:55,517
And I'm sorry, it's Bill is your what
your first name?

1321
01:19:56,144 --> 01:19:56,977
Anthony.

1322
01:19:57,044 --> 01:19:58,100
Anthony. Sorry, Anthony.

1323
01:19:58,167 --> 01:19:59,000
Oh, no.

1324
01:19:59,067 --> 01:19:59,900
Thank you.

1325
01:19:59,967 --> 01:20:02,527
I heard Marda, but then I didn't
catch the Anthony.

1326
01:20:02,907 --> 01:20:03,740
Thank you.