1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:49,360


2
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,000
Are you doing?

3
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,810


4
00:00:52,810 --> 00:01:01,260
Could for the first meeting?

5
00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:03,150
Yeah, for the first
meeting I was in.

6
00:01:03,150 --> 00:01:08,910


7
00:01:08,910 --> 00:01:11,670
Of this discussion.

8
00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:12,170
No know.

9
00:01:12,170 --> 00:01:15,380
It snuck up on me because
we made a mistake.

10
00:01:15,380 --> 00:01:19,300
We should have that
night just so we don't.

11
00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:23,000
So now I feel like
we've created this.

12
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,440
And that was not.

13
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,370
On his slide.

14
00:01:26,370 --> 00:01:34,230
Table well, now we
can have some lively.

15
00:01:34,230 --> 00:01:37,440


16
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,620
We had anything, really?

17
00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:42,580
That was the last.

18
00:01:42,580 --> 00:01:44,060
Dealer oh, Yeah.

19
00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:46,610
Yeah that was pretty lively.

20
00:01:46,610 --> 00:01:52,230
That was the most lively
when I. So far I've been to.

21
00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:53,110
You there was one.

22
00:01:53,110 --> 00:01:55,200
There was an email
just like, what, 24?

23
00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:00,050


24
00:02:00,050 --> 00:02:01,320
Do you still want to be, chair?

25
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,320
Because apparently.

26
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,590
Yeah Yeah.

27
00:02:04,590 --> 00:02:06,310
I don't have a good.

28
00:02:06,310 --> 00:02:08,729
I think we can kick off.

29
00:02:08,729 --> 00:02:13,450
So we can nominate you and
you'll just keep doing it.

30
00:02:13,450 --> 00:02:15,290
Give me a 50% increase.

31
00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:17,490
I'm like, I don't know.

32
00:02:17,490 --> 00:02:20,040
Yeah increase 50% on zero.

33
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:20,950
We can do that.

34
00:02:20,950 --> 00:02:23,810
Zero we can do that.

35
00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:24,310
Get to.

36
00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:27,080


37
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:34,400
Yeah anybody?

38
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,280
Yeah Christian and.

39
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,130


40
00:02:39,130 --> 00:02:39,920
Then? victoria?

41
00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:41,360
I'm not sure.

42
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,410
Are we good, kurt?

43
00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:44,580
No one online.

44
00:02:44,580 --> 00:02:46,685
OK well, let's get underway.

45
00:02:46,685 --> 00:02:50,000


46
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,770
Hey, welcome to the March
planning commission meeting.

47
00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:55,300
Thank you.

48
00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:57,910
Get oriented here in
front of microphone.

49
00:02:57,910 --> 00:02:59,230
I've got a brief
statement to read

50
00:02:59,230 --> 00:03:06,220
and then we'll get underway with
our items on the agenda today

51
00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:11,350
is the 20th of march, 5:02
PM and at least we do have

52
00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:14,260
a few commissioners missing.

53
00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:19,690
Christian Larson, I think you
saw his email and Ian Wright.

54
00:03:19,690 --> 00:03:24,200
And then maybe Vicki
Reed will show up.

55
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,830
Or Duane.

56
00:03:26,830 --> 00:03:28,490
Oh, Vance said he'll be on line.

57
00:03:28,490 --> 00:03:30,470
But, Kurt, nobody on line yet.

58
00:03:30,470 --> 00:03:31,460
Nobody on line yet.

59
00:03:31,460 --> 00:03:35,780
OK, I'll let if they show up.

60
00:03:35,780 --> 00:03:36,870
Yeah, we have a quorum.

61
00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:37,830
We've got five.

62
00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:40,640
So we're good.

63
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,450
The planning commission
is a voluntary citizen.

64
00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:43,440
Board commissions.

65
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,350
Agenda items fall within
two main categories

66
00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:47,630
administrative and legislative.

67
00:03:47,630 --> 00:03:51,870
And we do have a legislative
item on our agenda tonight.

68
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The sign ordinance.

69
00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:57,090
Examples of administrative items
are I'm going to skip that.

70
00:03:57,090 --> 00:03:59,280
Those are the conditional use
and subdivision applications.

71
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:00,913
That doesn't apply this
evening because we're not

72
00:04:00,913 --> 00:04:03,470
going to hear any of those
examples of legislative items

73
00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:05,270
or rezoning
applications and changes

74
00:04:05,270 --> 00:04:07,200
to the zoning ordinances.

75
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,110
The planning commission will
provide a recommendation

76
00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:12,350
to city council and we have more
discretion in the suggestions

77
00:04:12,350 --> 00:04:14,120
we provide to them.

78
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,589
Our decisions are based upon
planning staff, recommendations

79
00:04:18,589 --> 00:04:20,779
from planning staff
and other agencies,

80
00:04:20,779 --> 00:04:22,670
Community Council
recommendations, field

81
00:04:22,670 --> 00:04:24,560
observations and
information presented

82
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,470
at the public hearing,
including a presentation

83
00:04:27,470 --> 00:04:30,710
by the applicant, which in this
case is going to be the city

84
00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:32,990
and then testimony
from the public.

85
00:04:32,990 --> 00:04:34,920
So if you're.

86
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,810
Oh, and we do have
another commissioner.

87
00:04:37,810 --> 00:04:38,550
Victoria Reid.

88
00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:44,120


89
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,070
So I think there's going to be
a slight change on the agenda,

90
00:04:47,070 --> 00:04:52,267
because we have the election of
vice chair and chair for 2024,

91
00:04:52,267 --> 00:04:53,600
and we probably should
do that before we

92
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:54,840
get underway with the.

93
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,810


94
00:04:57,810 --> 00:04:59,170
With our actual items.

95
00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:02,740
So chair and vice
chair can be official.

96
00:05:02,740 --> 00:05:04,800
Right now, the
chair is me, Shawn

97
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,370
Lamar, and our vice chair is.

98
00:05:07,370 --> 00:05:10,910
Victoria, read
the commissioners.

99
00:05:10,910 --> 00:05:14,220
We have to get a
nomination from you folks.

100
00:05:14,220 --> 00:05:15,480
I don't have a campaign speech.

101
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,760
I'm happy to continue
on being a chair.

102
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,280
And Victoria, I don't
know your feelings

103
00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:24,940
or if you're content, but if
someone else wants to do it,

104
00:05:24,940 --> 00:05:25,440
it's fine.

105
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:30,540


106
00:05:30,540 --> 00:05:34,800
Think in the same.

107
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,365
OK now if you can
do it together.

108
00:05:37,365 --> 00:05:40,040


109
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,160
Uh, I move that we keep
the same commissioner

110
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:49,940
and vice commissioner or vice
chair and vice chair for 2024.

111
00:05:49,940 --> 00:05:51,780
Second OK.

112
00:05:51,780 --> 00:05:53,990
Motion by Nielsen.

113
00:05:53,990 --> 00:05:57,160
Second by Diane.

114
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,100
For the discussion.

115
00:05:58,100 --> 00:05:59,030
Do you have a speech?

116
00:05:59,030 --> 00:06:01,000
No you are fabulous.

117
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,180
Oh, OK.

118
00:06:02,180 --> 00:06:03,070
Well, Thank you.

119
00:06:03,070 --> 00:06:05,980
Let's go ahead and
do a voice vote.

120
00:06:05,980 --> 00:06:07,970
All in favor say Aye or yes?

121
00:06:07,970 --> 00:06:08,890
A Yes.

122
00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:10,870
Anybody opposed?

123
00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:15,550
OK, we're on for another term.

124
00:06:15,550 --> 00:06:18,590
Thank you.

125
00:06:18,590 --> 00:06:21,590
Yeah so you don't want a speech?

126
00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:24,460
You'll probably hear enough
from me later on this evening.

127
00:06:24,460 --> 00:06:28,720
So now we'll move to our
first item on the agenda,

128
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,950
a real first time 23 016.

129
00:06:30,950 --> 00:06:33,580
And this is continuing
business, looking

130
00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:38,470
at amendments to our sign code.

131
00:06:38,470 --> 00:06:41,370
And Francis, you'll be.

132
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Presenting this.

133
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Yes to us.

134
00:06:43,270 --> 00:06:44,620
OK all right.

135
00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:48,780
So let me just do this.

136
00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:50,010
Can everybody see?

137
00:06:50,010 --> 00:06:52,980
OK, so I'm just going to
get right into the meat

138
00:06:52,980 --> 00:06:54,510
of the meat of the matter.

139
00:06:54,510 --> 00:06:58,830
Um, so the first, the first
part of this presentation is,

140
00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:04,050
is a response to changes
that were discussed

141
00:07:04,050 --> 00:07:06,090
or potential changes that
were discussed by this body

142
00:07:06,090 --> 00:07:07,120
at the last meeting.

143
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,470
So I sent you a staff
report last week.

144
00:07:11,470 --> 00:07:12,750
Hopefully that
made sense to you,

145
00:07:12,750 --> 00:07:18,360
but I just kind of wanted to go
through each of these in order

146
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:19,780
in how they appear in the code.

147
00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:27,540
So in section 1860
820, we had language

148
00:07:27,540 --> 00:07:30,270
that said that sign
alterations that are in excess

149
00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:32,970
of 25% of the total
sign, sign, face

150
00:07:32,970 --> 00:07:37,090
square footage shall require
conformance to this title.

151
00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:40,230
What that meant was that a
nonconforming sign could expand

152
00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:43,170
up to 25% of its square
footage without having

153
00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:47,130
to come into compliance
based on comments

154
00:07:47,130 --> 00:07:48,740
from the planning commission.

155
00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:52,570
I we struck that out and simply
said that sign alterations

156
00:07:52,570 --> 00:07:55,750
that increase signs face
square footage shall require

157
00:07:55,750 --> 00:07:58,300
conformance to this title.

158
00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:02,320
Um, the next question
pertained to window signs

159
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,390
and there was quite a bit of
conversation on window signs

160
00:08:07,390 --> 00:08:09,860
and what counted
as a window sign.

161
00:08:09,860 --> 00:08:11,290
The language that
we're proposing here

162
00:08:11,290 --> 00:08:13,150
and we put this in
three different places,

163
00:08:13,150 --> 00:08:15,430
one in applicability,
one in the definitions

164
00:08:15,430 --> 00:08:16,990
and one in the
window sign language

165
00:08:16,990 --> 00:08:20,380
itself is that any sign
that is hung within three

166
00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:23,320
feet of a window, any
interior sign that

167
00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,720
is hung within three
feet of a window

168
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,850
is considered a window sign.

169
00:08:27,850 --> 00:08:32,559
OK this was brought up because
a planning commissioner raised

170
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,169
the example of a
bank in Heber city

171
00:08:35,169 --> 00:08:40,510
that hung a digital display
right against the window.

172
00:08:40,510 --> 00:08:43,210
And Heber city had strong
feelings about digital signage

173
00:08:43,210 --> 00:08:44,120
in general.

174
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,220
And so, you know,
that was brought

175
00:08:48,220 --> 00:08:49,970
up as a potential loophole.

176
00:08:49,970 --> 00:08:52,720
And in fact, there's an example
of this right here in Millcreek

177
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,010
the emissions plus folks
have hung a digital display

178
00:08:57,010 --> 00:08:58,280
inside their window.

179
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,370
Currently, we really can't
regulate that because

180
00:09:00,370 --> 00:09:02,030
technically it's a window sign.

181
00:09:02,030 --> 00:09:04,420
But in the future,
we would be able to

182
00:09:04,420 --> 00:09:07,030
with this 3 foot minimum.

183
00:09:07,030 --> 00:09:10,360
I didn't find very many cities
that had language like this,

184
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,380
so I just made what I thought
was a Prudential judgment

185
00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:16,540
on that question.

186
00:09:16,540 --> 00:09:20,230
With respect to pole covers,
that's in 1960, 1868,

187
00:09:20,230 --> 00:09:28,510
100 sub B were suggesting
that pole covers and sign

188
00:09:28,510 --> 00:09:30,340
bases shall be constructed
of brick, stone

189
00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:32,200
or architectural metal
panels that extend at least

190
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,330
three inches beyond
the pole, and that

191
00:09:34,330 --> 00:09:38,500
fully conceals the entirety
of the sign pole structure.

192
00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:40,690
One one commissioner
brought up, you

193
00:09:40,690 --> 00:09:43,720
know, ambiguity in the
code about what a sign

194
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,150
pole cover meant and whatnot.

195
00:09:46,150 --> 00:09:49,070
We thought that might be
a reasonable approach.

196
00:09:49,070 --> 00:09:51,260
Here's an example of
an effective sign.

197
00:09:51,260 --> 00:09:52,130
Pole cover, of course.

198
00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:58,340
Right the brick yard
sign itself wall signs.

199
00:09:58,340 --> 00:10:03,610
So a question was
raised about the,

200
00:10:03,610 --> 00:10:08,770
you know, the appropriateness
of our 15% or 20%

201
00:10:08,770 --> 00:10:11,710
of the wall area
requirement for wall signs.

202
00:10:11,710 --> 00:10:14,290
Um, commissioners brought
up rightly that there

203
00:10:14,290 --> 00:10:16,000
ought to be a maximum.

204
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,330
I looked at our peer cities,
mostly Sandy Murray, Cottonwood

205
00:10:19,330 --> 00:10:21,670
heights, Salt Lake City
and in fact, in all cases

206
00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:24,010
and even in West valley,
there is a maximum.

207
00:10:24,010 --> 00:10:25,220
It's something similar to this.

208
00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:27,470
And many cities kind
base it on the zone.

209
00:10:27,470 --> 00:10:32,080
So we're proposing that there's
that keep that 20% of the wall

210
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,070
area up to a maximum of
200ft in a residential zone,

211
00:10:36,070 --> 00:10:39,730
300ft in a commercial
c, one zone and 600ft

212
00:10:39,730 --> 00:10:42,380
in a CMD md3 and f zone.

213
00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:44,290
And that's where you
have the greatest

214
00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:47,570
kind of opportunity for a
large building such as this.

215
00:10:47,570 --> 00:10:50,860
And this is the fat cats
and bluffdale, right?

216
00:10:50,860 --> 00:10:53,880
And so that, that
speaks to the idea

217
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,250
that there ought to be kind
of a maximum square footage

218
00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:56,890
threshold.

219
00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:59,880
And these thresholds aren't
out of line with what

220
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:01,860
other cities have done.

221
00:11:01,860 --> 00:11:06,720
In fact, I think that 600ft is
identical to what Sandy Sandy

222
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,150
recently adopted in their code.

223
00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:14,380
Um, you know, upon the,
you know, at the suggestion

224
00:11:14,380 --> 00:11:19,150
of the international sign
Association's Utah chapter

225
00:11:19,150 --> 00:11:21,880
and and at the suggestion of
some planning commissioners,

226
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,600
we adjusted the light
temperature maximum.

227
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,600
And then, you know, we, we
talked this wasn't necessarily

228
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,133
a planning commission
recommendation per se,

229
00:11:30,133 --> 00:11:31,300
but this is something
that I'd been

230
00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:33,380
thinking about for some time.

231
00:11:33,380 --> 00:11:37,030
And the idea of, you
know, incentivizing

232
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:39,670
the creation or
the incentivizing

233
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:41,500
of more attractive signs.

234
00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:46,300
One thing that occurred to me
is the draft that you received

235
00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:48,190
did allow electronic
message centers on pole

236
00:11:48,190 --> 00:11:50,980
signs in the commercial zone.

237
00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:52,990
What if we just prohibited
them on pole signs

238
00:11:52,990 --> 00:11:54,910
in the commercial zones,
such that if anybody wanted

239
00:11:54,910 --> 00:11:56,530
to do an electronic
message center,

240
00:11:56,530 --> 00:11:59,300
they would have to replace
their sign with a monument sign.

241
00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:02,350
It is a form of an
incentive, potentially a

242
00:12:02,350 --> 00:12:03,710
challenging one for some folks.

243
00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:07,240
Right but it would force them
to choose between keeping

244
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,850
their pole sign or maybe coming
up with a lower profile sign

245
00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:13,900
to enjoy the benefit of an
electronic Message Center.

246
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,050
I don't know how the planning
commission feels about that.

247
00:12:16,050 --> 00:12:18,650
I welcome your
suggestion, but as I

248
00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:20,270
was kind of going
through your notes,

249
00:12:20,270 --> 00:12:25,070
that thought came to me
in the last week or so.

250
00:12:25,070 --> 00:12:28,580
And then let's see,
clarified proposed

251
00:12:28,580 --> 00:12:29,910
standards for window signs.

252
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:32,120
So here's what we wrote,
and this is language

253
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,950
very similar to what Sandy did.

254
00:12:33,950 --> 00:12:36,380
So window signs shall
not cover more than 50%

255
00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:39,290
of any single window,
no more than 33%

256
00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:41,090
of an entire surface area
of a group of Windows

257
00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:42,210
on each building face.

258
00:12:42,210 --> 00:12:47,540
And they we have a definition of
what we mean by a single window

259
00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:50,720
and also a picture that
I borrowed from Sandy

260
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,400
that I'll have our
code consultant adapt,

261
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,060
if you like this approach.

262
00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:56,270
Essentially it says
50% of a single window

263
00:12:56,270 --> 00:12:57,960
or 33% of a group of Windows.

264
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,050
And you know, acknowledging that
the door is always separate.

265
00:13:01,050 --> 00:13:03,680
And then we put
that language that

266
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:05,150
said that any
interior sign placed

267
00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:09,510
within three feet of a window
is considered a window sign.

268
00:13:09,510 --> 00:13:15,650
Then I have I have
Commissioner Lamar to Thank

269
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:21,350
for this beautiful picture of
the beautiful trailer sign we

270
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:22,760
added to the mobile
TC sign definition

271
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,810
to address signs on vehicles
and specifically the language

272
00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:30,700
that we added was this.

273
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:33,100
A mobile TC sign means a sign
mounted on a trailer frame

274
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:34,870
lighted or unlighted,
which is not permanently

275
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:37,600
attached to a structure
of the ground or a sign

276
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,460
that is greater
than 16ft in area

277
00:13:39,460 --> 00:13:40,820
and that is mounted
on a vehicle.

278
00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:45,470
And that's language that chair,
commissioner Lamar suggested.

279
00:13:45,470 --> 00:13:47,980
And we thought that
might be reasonable.

280
00:13:47,980 --> 00:13:50,500
So those are in essence,
those are, in essence,

281
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,540
my changes to the sign code.

282
00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:54,400
I know this is a matter
of continuing business,

283
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,830
but but I also know that there
are folks here who were not

284
00:13:56,830 --> 00:13:59,560
here at the last meeting
is, of course, up

285
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:00,620
to the discretion of the chair.

286
00:14:00,620 --> 00:14:02,680
But it might be good
to hear from the public

287
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:06,210
on these questions as well,
if you're so inclined.

288
00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:10,210
Chair but before we move
on to sign discussion,

289
00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:12,550
do you have any
questions or thoughts

290
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:14,950
respecting the changes
that we proposed

291
00:14:14,950 --> 00:14:16,980
for you for the sign code?

292
00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:20,140
Commissioners
questions for Francis.

293
00:14:20,140 --> 00:14:21,980
Francis on item number five.

294
00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:23,830
You talked about a
maximum temperature.

295
00:14:23,830 --> 00:14:24,470
What is that?

296
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:25,250
Maximum temperature?

297
00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:29,390
The it is 4,000 degrees Kelvin.

298
00:14:29,390 --> 00:14:32,930
OK it's a light color.

299
00:14:32,930 --> 00:14:33,550
Right?

300
00:14:33,550 --> 00:14:34,050
color.

301
00:14:34,050 --> 00:14:35,310
Temperature that's good.

302
00:14:35,310 --> 00:14:35,990
Thank you.

303
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:39,330


304
00:14:39,330 --> 00:14:41,550
Um, Francis, could
you refresh my memory

305
00:14:41,550 --> 00:14:47,190
about what the current limits
are on the M6 in terms of size?

306
00:14:47,190 --> 00:14:49,950
Um, I believe it's in
the commercial zone.

307
00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:52,120
Yes can you give
me just one minute?

308
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,080
I can pull it up.

309
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,590


310
00:14:56,590 --> 00:14:58,610
So you see this as
being more restrictive?

311
00:14:58,610 --> 00:15:01,820
Correct well.

312
00:15:01,820 --> 00:15:04,060
Yes, let me look.

313
00:15:04,060 --> 00:15:20,180


314
00:15:20,180 --> 00:15:22,533
So what I can do is.

315
00:15:22,533 --> 00:15:25,940


316
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:28,680
I can pull up the staff
report and then we can.

317
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,070
Then I can tell you what.

318
00:15:31,070 --> 00:15:34,405
What it is in the current
version of our code here.

319
00:15:34,405 --> 00:15:39,880


320
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:40,530
Excuse me.

321
00:15:40,530 --> 00:15:48,700


322
00:15:48,700 --> 00:16:03,140
Oops OK.

323
00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:05,870
So bear in mind, this
is a previous draft,

324
00:16:05,870 --> 00:16:10,053
but the EMC dimensions
weren't changing.

325
00:16:10,053 --> 00:16:17,180


326
00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:19,210
Just one second and excuse
me for the time here.

327
00:16:19,210 --> 00:16:23,780


328
00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:29,003
OK so.

329
00:16:29,003 --> 00:16:35,650


330
00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:38,830
These numbers are the same.

331
00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:41,620
These percentages are the
same as what is allowed

332
00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:44,270
in the current CNM zones.

333
00:16:44,270 --> 00:16:46,850
So the percentages
themselves have not changed.

334
00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:49,460
What has changed is
the minimum separation.

335
00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:52,120
So we now say may not
be located within 150

336
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,510
of a residential zone.

337
00:16:53,510 --> 00:16:57,280
And in the draft that
you received on Friday,

338
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,880
I'm suggesting that
maybe we only make

339
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,800
monument signs in
the C zone eligible

340
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,300
for electronic message centers.

341
00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:09,800
But the percentages
themselves have not changed.

342
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,349
From from the existing code.

343
00:17:12,349 --> 00:17:13,599
Does that answer your question?

344
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:14,670
Yeah Thank you.

345
00:17:14,670 --> 00:17:23,140
OK um, just a question
on the windows sign.

346
00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:27,099
Yes, doors are separate,
but can doors have signs?

347
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:30,350
Yes if it has a window
in it, yes, it can.

348
00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:31,710
Then why is it separate?

349
00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:33,350
It's just counted as a separate.

350
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:34,260
It's just counted as.

351
00:17:34,260 --> 00:17:36,020
It's just counted as
a separate window.

352
00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:41,260
OK and Francis.

353
00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:42,690
I also have a.

354
00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:44,760
Clarifying question two
regarding window assigns,

355
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:53,840
I was looking at the
table, the 1868 113 table.

356
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,810
And it has.

357
00:17:55,810 --> 00:17:58,630
Window size 12ft per use.

358
00:17:58,630 --> 00:18:00,460
And I was wondering
that illustration

359
00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:03,770
that you had borrowed from
Sandy with the 50% windows.

360
00:18:03,770 --> 00:18:07,010
Is that does that go
along with the 12ft?

361
00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:10,090
So they have a 12ft per
the front of their building

362
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:14,260
or per window, it's 50%
and then limited to that

363
00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:15,730
or that's a good point.

364
00:18:15,730 --> 00:18:19,430
What I'll do is I'll make
the I'll make this table.

365
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:23,770
And I'm sorry I missed that,
but I'll make this table align

366
00:18:23,770 --> 00:18:27,650
with the standards in this.

367
00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:29,980
This is the table in question
that you're referring to.

368
00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:31,000
Right?

369
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,550
and I'll make this table align
with the standards stated here.

370
00:18:36,550 --> 00:18:39,810
We can do.

371
00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:46,330
A maximum of 12ft if you want,
if that concerned about it.

372
00:18:46,330 --> 00:18:49,110
Or we can just do the
33% that Sandy does.

373
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:54,460


374
00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:57,850
Yeah I mean, when
my thoughts were,

375
00:18:57,850 --> 00:19:00,120
I can bring my thoughts when
we come back to our discussion.

376
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,580
OK well, I mean, the other thing
that I would recommend that we

377
00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:07,030
add is that this allowance
only be for Windows

378
00:19:07,030 --> 00:19:08,200
on the ground floor.

379
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,450
OK right.

380
00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:10,580
And so what about above?

381
00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:12,010
There would be no
window signs allowed

382
00:19:12,010 --> 00:19:14,830
on upper story of a building.

383
00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:20,010
OK also with the.

384
00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:21,570
With the three foot buffer.

385
00:19:21,570 --> 00:19:23,100
So if you put a TV.

386
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:26,880


387
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,370
A TV would be considered within
three feet, would be considered

388
00:19:29,370 --> 00:19:30,600
a window sign.

389
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,660
Does a window signs
have a prohibition

390
00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:35,340
on being electronic?

391
00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:37,540
So let's say you put a TV.

392
00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:39,450
One foot away from your window.

393
00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:41,740
That's now considered
a window sign.

394
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:43,620
But can window
signs be electronic?

395
00:19:43,620 --> 00:19:47,370
Well, technically, yes,
because if you read this,

396
00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:52,590
I mean, the way our ordinance
is structured, if you let me see

397
00:19:52,590 --> 00:19:57,210
if I can find it here, our table
regarding electronic message

398
00:19:57,210 --> 00:20:00,810
centers tells you what sign type
and electronic Message Center

399
00:20:00,810 --> 00:20:02,640
is allowed in.

400
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,010
And in none of these
cases is window sign

401
00:20:05,010 --> 00:20:09,240
ineligible eligible
for some sort of EMD

402
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,480
under the current code.

403
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,040
Right we don't regulate
signs on the inside

404
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,240
whether they're
moving images or not.

405
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,090
But under this new
code we would write,

406
00:20:18,090 --> 00:20:21,060
if it's within three feet of a
window and it's an electronic,

407
00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:23,340
then that would be an
electronic message center,

408
00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:24,790
which is not in this table.

409
00:20:24,790 --> 00:20:26,650
Right so that
basically says window

410
00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:29,470
signs cannot be electronic.

411
00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:30,970
Now, I mean, what's
going to happen,

412
00:20:30,970 --> 00:20:34,690
right, is some code enforcement
is going to go out to someone

413
00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:37,000
and say, well, I mean, you can't
have that within three feet

414
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,470
of the window and
then they're going

415
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:40,840
to move it 3 feet in an inch.

416
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,180
Right so, I mean, no
matter what we do,

417
00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:46,280
right, someone's going
to figure out some way.

418
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,223
Yeah, Yeah.

419
00:20:47,223 --> 00:20:49,190
And we can probably talk about
that more in our discussion.

420
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:50,980
Because I'm just
thinking of maybe

421
00:20:50,980 --> 00:20:53,650
there are some electronic
like the small open signs

422
00:20:53,650 --> 00:20:54,850
that are blue and red.

423
00:20:54,850 --> 00:20:59,390
Maybe those are maybe we feel
like those are OK, but large 72

424
00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:01,070
inch screen TVs are not.

425
00:21:01,070 --> 00:21:03,620
But yeah, so that's not an
electronic Message Center.

426
00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:04,550
That's just a lighted sign.

427
00:21:04,550 --> 00:21:05,383
That's just lighted sign.

428
00:21:05,383 --> 00:21:08,330
OK electronic Message Center
has changeable message type.

429
00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:09,750
It scrolls, it does
all these things.

430
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:11,050
Right? so that wouldn't
prohibit if you

431
00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:12,920
have your little open sign.

432
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,253
OK the.

433
00:21:15,253 --> 00:21:23,180


434
00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:24,450
verify led.

435
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:29,670


436
00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:32,460
The other comment and we don't
have to talk a lot about this,

437
00:21:32,460 --> 00:21:36,160
but I didn't see any change to
the temporary sign language.

438
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,040
And I just.

439
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,940
I think if that
language was rewritten

440
00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:44,020
to make it a little more clear.

441
00:21:44,020 --> 00:21:48,000
That was on page
19 of this report.

442
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,560
And it talks about,
you know, you

443
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,990
get six month temporary
sign plus three additional

444
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:56,280
if it's a grand opening,
all of their temporary signs

445
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,110
are get six weeks.

446
00:21:59,110 --> 00:22:02,620
It felt kind of clunky
trying to understand

447
00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:06,290
what the meaning was by
looking at just that paragraph.

448
00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:08,350
I got a little confused.

449
00:22:08,350 --> 00:22:12,070
OK I remember that discussion.

450
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:14,680
Remind me what code
section this was.

451
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,070
The page 19.

452
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:16,815
So this is.

453
00:22:16,815 --> 00:22:21,690


454
00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:26,960
A Scott 68.140 temporary
signs and it was.

455
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,990


456
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:33,370
I understand.

457
00:22:33,370 --> 00:22:34,990
OK Yeah.

458
00:22:34,990 --> 00:22:38,860
Um, we could do this
as a bulleted list.

459
00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:41,080
I have a question on that
temporary sign issue,

460
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,920
too, because I've never paid
attention to signs like you

461
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,230
did in the last two weeks.

462
00:22:47,230 --> 00:22:48,440
What do we have?

463
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,780
Something about temporary signs
on roofs, because I was driving

464
00:22:52,780 --> 00:22:55,210
down 900, I don't know if it
was holiday or mill creek,

465
00:22:55,210 --> 00:22:57,400
but there's an
apartment complex that

466
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,730
put this big, huge sign on their
roof that says now renting.

467
00:23:02,730 --> 00:23:05,280
Which I take it as
a temporary sign,

468
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,670
but it could probably live
there for a very long time.

469
00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:12,330
Yeah um, and then the
other one I noticed

470
00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:17,490
is same type of
thing on balconies,

471
00:23:17,490 --> 00:23:21,250
like on the corner of
an apartment complex.

472
00:23:21,250 --> 00:23:23,310
Does that fall into
these other rigs

473
00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:27,090
where we talk about
the clearance?

474
00:23:27,090 --> 00:23:28,610
From the street or the corner.

475
00:23:28,610 --> 00:23:31,670


476
00:23:31,670 --> 00:23:33,800
Well so a temporary
sign that's hung

477
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,450
from the face of the
building would, you know,

478
00:23:35,450 --> 00:23:39,240
should automatically meet all
the clear view considerations.

479
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,240
Right because the sign
wouldn't sign itself,

480
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,010
wouldn't change the clear view
it's affixed to a building.

481
00:23:46,010 --> 00:23:47,900
You know, technically
in this code,

482
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:49,730
there's probably nothing
stopping someone from putting

483
00:23:49,730 --> 00:23:52,040
a temporary sign on a roof.

484
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,320
However, we could make
that Amendment right.

485
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,620
You know, if you want.

486
00:23:59,620 --> 00:24:00,670
It's true.

487
00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:02,270
It's a really big sign.

488
00:24:02,270 --> 00:24:02,840
Well, Yeah.

489
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:03,717
And once you.

490
00:24:03,717 --> 00:24:05,350
Once you spend your world
thinking about science,

491
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:06,440
you do see them everywhere.

492
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,910
Right and it's annoying.

493
00:24:07,910 --> 00:24:08,510
I get it.

494
00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:11,410


495
00:24:11,410 --> 00:24:13,940
That's all the clarification
questions I have.

496
00:24:13,940 --> 00:24:18,590
Francis chair Lamar,
just so you're aware,

497
00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:21,420
we're having issues with
issues with the GoToMeeting.

498
00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:24,500
So commissioner
Vance is on the call

499
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,780
and watching the live stream.

500
00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:28,800
So our audio is on your phone.

501
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:29,420
Correct?

502
00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:31,270
you can see us.

503
00:24:31,270 --> 00:24:32,670
Going to wave to them
wherever the cameras

504
00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:34,310
don't know where it is.

505
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:36,590
That's why I came here, because
I couldn't get it to go.

506
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:41,450
OK do you want to see if he
has any questions for francis?

507
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:44,180
I doubt that he has seen
anything at this point.

508
00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:45,080
He just joined.

509
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,020
Right OK.

510
00:24:46,020 --> 00:24:47,800
OK Thank you.

511
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,000
You any questions for.

512
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:57,270
Francis when you say
three feet with it.

513
00:24:57,270 --> 00:24:58,730
With it from a window.

514
00:24:58,730 --> 00:25:02,480


515
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,350
You know you still put.

516
00:25:04,350 --> 00:25:08,900
You know, large 72 inch,
85 inch screen, three feet.

517
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:10,015
Straight back from the window.

518
00:25:10,015 --> 00:25:13,640


519
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,090
That's still a sign
in the window or even

520
00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:18,660
if it's on the wall
back behind it.

521
00:25:18,660 --> 00:25:22,470
I guess that 3 feet
means within, not in the.

522
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:25,440


523
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,340
Anyway, you can't
do much different.

524
00:25:27,340 --> 00:25:27,910
I'm not.

525
00:25:27,910 --> 00:25:29,150
I don't have any questions.

526
00:25:29,150 --> 00:25:32,370


527
00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:36,690
Right Dave, any
questions from you?

528
00:25:36,690 --> 00:25:38,470
I just want to say I
looked at that language.

529
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:41,520
And I think it's not here in.

530
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,540
Table, but in the actual
language in the law,

531
00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:48,600
I think I think Francis had
put the sentence before, as I

532
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,380
recall, was something like.

533
00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:52,920
If it's facing
outward or something.

534
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,800
And then the next sentence that
you put in here in the table

535
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:56,920
was about the three feet.

536
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,200
Is that not correct?

537
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,020
That Yes.

538
00:25:59,020 --> 00:26:01,570
So it's covered that is correct.

539
00:26:01,570 --> 00:26:04,000
Right it still has
to face outward.

540
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,430
So anyone anything
that was facing

541
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:08,640
outward, would you please use
your mic so he can hear us?

542
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,150
So anything that was facing
outward out the window

543
00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:13,750
would be a problem, correct.

544
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:16,020
As you've written it, because
there's another sentence

545
00:26:16,020 --> 00:26:17,830
in the actual right.

546
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:20,310
And if it's within three
feet, we could pick a number,

547
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:21,490
it could be four,
it could be five.

548
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:24,840
Right like I think we just pick
a reasonable number that that,

549
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,060
you know, notwithstanding
whatever you do on the inside.

550
00:26:28,060 --> 00:26:31,570
Right it counts as a it
counts as a window sign.

551
00:26:31,570 --> 00:26:33,270
Now, I mean, there
are things that I

552
00:26:33,270 --> 00:26:37,000
don't necessarily think it's
appropriate for us to regulate.

553
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,890
For example, you know, there's
an ice cream shop downtown

554
00:26:40,890 --> 00:26:43,830
that has this really pretty
kind of Neon Art piece

555
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:45,010
on the back wall.

556
00:26:45,010 --> 00:26:46,870
You can see it through
the window, right?

557
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:48,960
But it's on the back wall.

558
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,990
A lot of restaurants do that.

559
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:52,170
I don't necessarily
want to regulate that.

560
00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:54,640
There's another
business downtown.

561
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Well, it's actually a
really beautiful building

562
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,560
with a really beautiful
digital display inside of it

563
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,360
on the corner of First
South and State Street.

564
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,100
And it's in the lobby
of the building.

565
00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:09,880
And that's and it
rotates kind of images

566
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,150
of national parks and whatnot.

567
00:27:11,150 --> 00:27:13,150
It's quite stunning.

568
00:27:13,150 --> 00:27:15,910
And and I don't know that
it's appropriate for us

569
00:27:15,910 --> 00:27:17,840
to regulate that
sort of thing either.

570
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,150
So the question is the question
is, where do you draw the line

571
00:27:22,150 --> 00:27:24,520
up adjacent to the window
knowing that someone's going

572
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,440
to walk right up to that
line and put something there

573
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,300
and we're not going
to regulate it?

574
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,510
That's that's the issue that we.

575
00:27:30,510 --> 00:27:32,130
That we have.

576
00:27:32,130 --> 00:27:32,920
I appreciate that, too.

577
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,960
And I also want to make
sure that we're not.

578
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,380
We didn't go so restrictive.

579
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:38,390
Or if you have a
restaurant or bar.

580
00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:40,600
And you have a.

581
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,120
TV that's kind of facing the
people that might be sitting

582
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:44,650
at the window, that
it doesn't become

583
00:27:44,650 --> 00:27:46,890
non-compliant because
they want to watch sports.

584
00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:49,720


585
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,180
Let's move to.

586
00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:56,550
I want to just cover the
updated Community Council.

587
00:27:56,550 --> 00:27:58,330
Um, recommendation.

588
00:27:58,330 --> 00:28:01,510
But Francis, I think that was
pertaining to district signs.

589
00:28:01,510 --> 00:28:02,110
Yes, it was.

590
00:28:02,110 --> 00:28:02,880
Do these in too.

591
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,560
Yeah, and I'll cover that
in my presentation as well.

592
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,330
OK Do you want to
continue on with the rest

593
00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:12,090
of the second part and then
we'll move to community

594
00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:14,050
council, then up to you.

595
00:28:14,050 --> 00:28:17,770
However you want to
do it all together.

596
00:28:17,770 --> 00:28:22,670
OK OK.

597
00:28:22,670 --> 00:28:28,700
So with respect to sign and the
Billboard exchange agreement.

598
00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:30,710
So subsequent to
our last meeting,

599
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:34,520
I visited with many of you
individually and, and just kind

600
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,030
of got, you know,
Herd Herd, whatever,

601
00:28:38,030 --> 00:28:40,610
whatever concerns or
things you like, things you

602
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:43,150
dislike about the proposal and.

603
00:28:43,150 --> 00:28:46,350


604
00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:48,870
I have I have
crafted four options

605
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:53,290
that hopefully encapsulates
all of your concerns.

606
00:28:53,290 --> 00:28:55,440
And and the truth is, from
a land use perspective,

607
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,370
I think any of these
options are defensible.

608
00:28:59,370 --> 00:29:01,260
And again, this is
just to reiterate,

609
00:29:01,260 --> 00:29:03,640
this is a difficult issue.

610
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,860
A lot of heartfelt
feelings about this.

611
00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:07,890
And and just a
reminder, although there

612
00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:10,080
are monsters on
the screen, there

613
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,380
are no monsters in this room.

614
00:29:11,380 --> 00:29:15,300
And that, you know, we're all, I
think, trying to do the best we

615
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:18,120
can to make Mill
Creek a better place

616
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,110
and that the issues at the
fore here really are, you know,

617
00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:24,520
aesthetic and deeply held.

618
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,800
And I just again, want to just
affirm that whatever happens

619
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:35,580
tonight and you know, I have
great respect and consideration

620
00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:38,100
for, you know,
everybody's deeply

621
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:39,720
held beliefs on this
matter because, you know,

622
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,030
it is what it is.

623
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:47,790
So there were other cities that
have done Billboard exchanges,

624
00:29:47,790 --> 00:29:52,350
not many, but the Kansas
City Metropolitan area has

625
00:29:52,350 --> 00:29:53,920
experimented with this concept.

626
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,360
It's different than
mill Creek's concept.

627
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,810
But I just kind of wanted to
walk through both of these.

628
00:29:58,810 --> 00:30:00,450
One is Lee's Summit
and Lee's Summit

629
00:30:00,450 --> 00:30:05,160
is a city of about 100,000
people in the Southeast.

630
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,280
Side of the Kansas
City Metropolitan area.

631
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,660
And in about 2004, they
enacted an ordinance

632
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:15,360
that allowed any
nonconforming Billboard

633
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,660
to be converted into a
digital Billboard on a face

634
00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:19,660
to face basis.

635
00:30:19,660 --> 00:30:23,050
So two faces to one
face, 2 to 1, basically.

636
00:30:23,050 --> 00:30:24,570
But they also said
that digital signs

637
00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:29,790
could be larger, could be 10%
larger than the faces replaced.

638
00:30:29,790 --> 00:30:32,040
In the case of
Lee's summit, they

639
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,500
had in essence, a holding
zone or a receiving

640
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:35,800
zone for these new signs.

641
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,290
And those were along
certain highways.

642
00:30:38,290 --> 00:30:40,260
So they were taking
nonconforming

643
00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:42,600
billboards in their
city core and putting

644
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,520
them along certain highways.

645
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,590
They limited their exchange
to nonconforming signs.

646
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:49,120
So, in other words.

647
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,580
Not any Billboard could just
be eligible for some sort

648
00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:52,130
of exchange.

649
00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:55,210
It had to be
non-conforming in some way.

650
00:30:55,210 --> 00:30:57,040
They didn't necessarily
say which way it

651
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,360
was non-conforming,
but they said

652
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,810
they made an important kind
of policy decision about that.

653
00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:05,140
And the reason why I bring
this up is, you know,

654
00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:07,600
a number of you have brought
up the question about what

655
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,970
billboards should we consider
in some sort of or should

656
00:31:09,970 --> 00:31:13,850
the city council consider in
some sort of sign exchange?

657
00:31:13,850 --> 00:31:16,960
And for what it's worth, both
Lee's Summit and Kansas City

658
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,880
came up with this
concept that really,

659
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,540
if we're going to bear the
burden of digital signage,

660
00:31:22,540 --> 00:31:24,910
you know, the signs
that are nonconforming

661
00:31:24,910 --> 00:31:27,160
or the signs that are
larger ought to be the ones

662
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,590
that are thrown into the mix.

663
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:31,510
Lee's Summit reduced
their number of billboards

664
00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:34,570
from 12 to 6 using this method,
and they moved the billboards

665
00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:37,330
away from areas that they
found more offensive to areas

666
00:31:37,330 --> 00:31:39,470
that they found less so.

667
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:43,600
And they did this
over about 15 years

668
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,300
in the case of Kansas
city, the conversion rate

669
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:47,870
depends upon sign size.

670
00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:51,260
So bigger signs have a
lower conversion ratio

671
00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:53,460
and that's described below.

672
00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:55,520
So there's what they call
a junior poster, which

673
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,120
is those 72 square foot signs.

674
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,370
That's the so-called fan
sign up on 23rd East that

675
00:32:01,370 --> 00:32:04,010
converted it a 7 to 1 ratio.

676
00:32:04,010 --> 00:32:08,230
A poster, which is
an example mean.

677
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:11,930
This the.

678
00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:17,060
The ambulance chaser sign
over just East of the East

679
00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:19,460
of the Walgreens is a poster.

680
00:32:19,460 --> 00:32:22,640
The bulletin board
sign is the large one.

681
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,170
An example of the
bulletin board sign

682
00:32:24,170 --> 00:32:27,420
is the large one
next to Burger King.

683
00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:30,010
That I think currently
advertises a plumbing business.

684
00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:33,030
So the posters in the
junior posters, Kansas City

685
00:32:33,030 --> 00:32:36,300
decided to exchange
at a ratio of 7 to 1.

686
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,460
But the bulletin boards,
all things being equal,

687
00:32:38,460 --> 00:32:41,770
they felt that the larger
signs had more value.

688
00:32:41,770 --> 00:32:43,500
Even on a per square
footage basis.

689
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:45,070
They recommended a 3 to 1.

690
00:32:45,070 --> 00:32:50,640
And here again, just like in
Lee's summit, they, you know,

691
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,370
created kind of holding
zones for or receiving

692
00:32:53,370 --> 00:32:57,720
zones for these digital signs.

693
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,900
So it's important to
note here and I asked

694
00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:01,500
and this is another
question that was brought up

695
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:04,140
how do we come up
with a rational basis

696
00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:09,000
for deciding what signs
are removed and what ratio?

697
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,230
This is a particularly
tricky question.

698
00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:13,440
And and I brought this
up to both the planning

699
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,390
director of Kansas City and
the planning director of Lee's

700
00:33:15,390 --> 00:33:16,350
Summit.

701
00:33:16,350 --> 00:33:18,270
And they gave me
an answer that was

702
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:24,860
both very obvious and in
a way, very unsatisfying.

703
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:28,370
And that answer it was
a negotiated process

704
00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:31,790
with the sign companies because
they felt that there was

705
00:33:31,790 --> 00:33:33,530
no point in having
an exchange ordinance

706
00:33:33,530 --> 00:33:35,420
that no one would
participate in.

707
00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:38,390
If you set the price too high
at an arm's length transaction,

708
00:33:38,390 --> 00:33:40,760
no one's going to buy
what you're selling

709
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,040
or no one's going to, you know.

710
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,640
And so in a sense, it's
much like, you know,

711
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,220
anything that we do at an
arm's length transaction

712
00:33:49,220 --> 00:33:51,290
where neither party is
under duress, you know,

713
00:33:51,290 --> 00:33:55,550
you have to find an exchange
that's that both parties are

714
00:33:55,550 --> 00:33:56,520
willing to do.

715
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,850
And it was through
a negotiated process

716
00:33:58,850 --> 00:34:03,410
that the sign companies and
Lee's Summit in Kansas city,

717
00:34:03,410 --> 00:34:06,780
respectively, came up with the
numbers that they came up with.

718
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:12,540
I know that's not like thrilling
to hear, but it is informative.

719
00:34:12,540 --> 00:34:15,860
Right and I've asked, you
know, Kansas City is a big city

720
00:34:15,860 --> 00:34:17,280
and I've asked their
planning director.

721
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,239
Right like what?

722
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,350
How did you do this?

723
00:34:19,350 --> 00:34:22,010
And that was the
answer they gave me.

724
00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:23,630
It's important to note
that Billboard companies

725
00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:26,190
in the Kansas City and
Lee's Summit situation

726
00:34:26,190 --> 00:34:27,790
were not compelled
toward an exchange.

727
00:34:27,790 --> 00:34:30,000
There was no property
exigency, there

728
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,900
was nothing kind of
forcing this, no threat

729
00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:35,699
of condemnation, nothing.

730
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:38,610
It was truly arm's length.

731
00:34:38,610 --> 00:34:40,110
Kansas City and
Lee's Summit also

732
00:34:40,110 --> 00:34:42,250
did not select the billboards
eligible for exchange.

733
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:43,620
But what they did
do is they created

734
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:46,280
categories of signs that
were eligible for exchange.

735
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,280
In other words, the signs
that were non-conforming.

736
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,150
In addition, I believe.

737
00:34:51,150 --> 00:34:54,300
I believe Lee's Summit
actually added language that

738
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,280
said that any sign that
was within 500 feet

739
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,670
of their municipal boundary.

740
00:34:57,670 --> 00:35:00,720
Right could be eligible
for an exchange.

741
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,670
Because I think in that
case, they were saying, well,

742
00:35:02,670 --> 00:35:03,890
we're moving the sign.

743
00:35:03,890 --> 00:35:05,580
We're moving this
old sign away from,

744
00:35:05,580 --> 00:35:08,910
you know, an arterial road
on our municipal boundary

745
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:09,820
toward a highway.

746
00:35:09,820 --> 00:35:11,990
And that was a policy
decision that they made.

747
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:14,900


748
00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:16,910
so there are some differences
between Missouri and Mill

749
00:35:16,910 --> 00:35:19,120
Creek.

750
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,980
unlike the Missouri
examples, Mill Creek

751
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:22,210
would own the
resulting sign and we

752
00:35:22,210 --> 00:35:24,920
would limit the advertising sign
advertising time on the sign.

753
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560
And I think that means something
with respect to the ratio.

754
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,200
And it also means
something with respect

755
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,900
to how that sign is
controlled and managed.

756
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:34,000
The Missouri examples
created a permanent vesting

757
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,340
for the resulting signs
and Mill creeks proposal.

758
00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:41,010
At least the previous proposal
was for a 40 year lease.

759
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:41,510
I don't know.

760
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:42,710
40 years is a long time.

761
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:46,800
But you know, in terms of
rights and vested rights, right.

762
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,150
40 years is a lot
less than forever.

763
00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:54,520
And that's the situation that we
deal with existing billboards.

764
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,490
Mill creeks are digital
district sign out here

765
00:35:57,490 --> 00:35:59,710
is smaller and shorter
than the Missouri

766
00:35:59,710 --> 00:36:01,510
digital billboards, right.

767
00:36:01,510 --> 00:36:03,700
Mill Creek also has more
control theoretically,

768
00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:06,140
over the design and operation
of the sign due to ownership.

769
00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:08,530
So that is to say that
that's the council

770
00:36:08,530 --> 00:36:09,830
could negotiate that, right?

771
00:36:09,830 --> 00:36:11,150
We could negotiate time.

772
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:14,450
We could negotiate when the sign
is on or when the sign is off.

773
00:36:14,450 --> 00:36:18,790
We could negotiate the
range of the aspect,

774
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:22,510
the view of that sign are
the louvers set at 38 degrees

775
00:36:22,510 --> 00:36:25,330
or 35 or 32 or whatever.

776
00:36:25,330 --> 00:36:28,930
We we could negotiate the
illuminance again, you know,

777
00:36:28,930 --> 00:36:32,080
in I ownership of
the sign really

778
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,810
helps the city control how that
sign is used in the long term.

779
00:36:37,810 --> 00:36:41,410
Also, I noted that I've done
a lot of reading on state law

780
00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:43,090
and state statute
right now makes

781
00:36:43,090 --> 00:36:45,640
for makes a Missouri
style conversion

782
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,090
scheme kind of unworkable.

783
00:36:47,090 --> 00:36:49,240
And here's why.

784
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:52,120
For for cities that have
a lot of billboards,

785
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,180
it's important to
note two things.

786
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:58,310
One, a Billboard company
can relocate that Billboard

787
00:36:58,310 --> 00:37:00,770
within a mile of the
existing sign in any

788
00:37:00,770 --> 00:37:04,590
commercial or industrial zone.

789
00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:06,480
Up to a certain height.

790
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,210
And if we were to.

791
00:37:10,210 --> 00:37:12,240
Deny them that permit.

792
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:14,830
We would trigger an
eminent domain process.

793
00:37:14,830 --> 00:37:20,020
OK so if a Billboard and this
happened in South Salt Lake.

794
00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:24,120
Right if and South Salt
Lake has had a digital sign

795
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,080
prohibition at the time.

796
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,990
So what happened was a Billboard
a Billboard company said,

797
00:37:30,990 --> 00:37:32,970
I'm going to move this
Billboard from this location

798
00:37:32,970 --> 00:37:34,360
to the highway.

799
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,500
And then they came in
later for a service upgrade

800
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,590
to put a digital sign
on that Billboard.

801
00:37:40,590 --> 00:37:43,150
And they did This following
two provisions in state law.

802
00:37:43,150 --> 00:37:45,930
One is in the land use
development management act,

803
00:37:45,930 --> 00:37:48,210
but the other is in the Utah
outdoor advertising act, which

804
00:37:48,210 --> 00:37:51,480
says that, you know,
notwithstanding any city

805
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,940
ordinances, signs
that face highways

806
00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:57,630
can have a changeable
message face

807
00:37:57,630 --> 00:37:59,590
with a minimum of 8 seconds.

808
00:37:59,590 --> 00:38:03,720
So is our GoToMeeting
back on OK.

809
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,670
Commissioner Vance, if you
could hear our GoToMeeting

810
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:07,690
is back on.

811
00:38:07,690 --> 00:38:11,410
Um, so that is to
say that, you know,

812
00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:12,940
basically Billboard
companies, if they

813
00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:15,410
have a Billboard within a
mile of a highway, right?

814
00:38:15,410 --> 00:38:18,520
And there's the zoning
in most of these cities,

815
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,220
it can move a sign
to that corridor

816
00:38:21,220 --> 00:38:24,080
and then digitize it subject
to state, state rule.

817
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,690
So we don't.

818
00:38:25,690 --> 00:38:30,410
Mill Creek lacks the ability to
create a highway based holding,

819
00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:35,020
receiving zone like Missouri
allowed their cities to do

820
00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:36,700
right through their state law.

821
00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:42,400
So that leaves us with some
other exchange agreement

822
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,850
if the city council
wants to do it.

823
00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:48,640
So when we talk about assessing
the value of a Billboard

824
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,310
in an exchange agreement,
it's important to understand

825
00:38:51,310 --> 00:38:53,060
how condemnation
works for billboards.

826
00:38:53,060 --> 00:38:55,570
And this was a question that
was brought up by Commissioner

827
00:38:55,570 --> 00:38:56,600
Vance in the last meeting.

828
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,470
In the last meeting.

829
00:38:57,470 --> 00:39:00,530
What is the value of a Billboard
in terms of condemnation?

830
00:39:00,530 --> 00:39:04,330
It's expensive and it
depends because very rarely

831
00:39:04,330 --> 00:39:06,010
when you condemn a
billboard, you're not just

832
00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:07,420
condemning a billboard,
you're condemning

833
00:39:07,420 --> 00:39:08,540
all associated rights.

834
00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:09,830
That's in state statute, too.

835
00:39:09,830 --> 00:39:12,310
So if they have a
view shed or a right

836
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:15,490
of first refusal or
whatever, right on that sign,

837
00:39:15,490 --> 00:39:16,400
you're condemning that.

838
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,640
You're condemning the value of
a lease, whatever's remaining

839
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,480
on that lease, you're condemning
the cost of the business

840
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,180
opportunity of that sign
and its contribution

841
00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:27,490
in a rotary market
area, what they call it.

842
00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:31,720
And so I've seen examples
ranging from 150,000

843
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,180
to more than
approximately $500,000,

844
00:39:34,180 --> 00:39:36,910
depending upon what
precisely is being condemned

845
00:39:36,910 --> 00:39:38,330
and for what purpose.

846
00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:41,240
The other thing is, you know,
we can only condemn when we are

847
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:43,520
planning a public improvement
like a road or a park

848
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:49,100
or whatnot or in a case where a
Billboard company says that we

849
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:50,630
are removing a
Billboard or removing

850
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:53,540
a Billboard pursuant to
state law, and the city says,

851
00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:56,340
no, right, we can do that.

852
00:39:56,340 --> 00:39:59,390
Right? but we would
have to pay for it.

853
00:39:59,390 --> 00:40:03,380
So our opportunities to remove
billboards through condemnation

854
00:40:03,380 --> 00:40:04,410
are pretty limited.

855
00:40:04,410 --> 00:40:07,160
They're limited to really
when a Billboard moves a sign

856
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,280
and we choose to say no or
we're building something that

857
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,550
is in the way of a Billboard.

858
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:19,600
So neither Lee's Summit nor
also important to note, right?

859
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,700
Neither Lee's Summit nor
Kansas City used a market

860
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:23,900
analysis to establish ratio.

861
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:25,990
Right they looked
for an optimal ratio

862
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:28,840
that was amenable to both the
city and the sign companies.

863
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,660
Now, we don't know the
value of each sign.

864
00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:32,540
I just don't.

865
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:34,910
And and there's nothing
I can do to tell you.

866
00:40:34,910 --> 00:40:37,910
And we can make we can make
assumptions, but we don't know.

867
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:39,940
But we can rely
on visual impact.

868
00:40:39,940 --> 00:40:41,960
We can rely on
height and sign area.

869
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,050
We can rely on the nonconforming
status of billboards

870
00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:46,040
to prioritize the removal first.

871
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,180
That is to say, you know,
if the city council,

872
00:40:49,180 --> 00:40:51,460
if the planning commission
and the city council

873
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:53,800
ultimately are
amenable to a deal,

874
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,610
we can kind of frame it
in a way that maximizes

875
00:40:57,610 --> 00:40:58,850
the public benefit of this.

876
00:40:58,850 --> 00:41:03,400
And the public benefit not
only includes the opportunity

877
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,250
to promote messages of
the city on this sign,

878
00:41:06,250 --> 00:41:10,150
but also the opportunity
of removing billboards

879
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:12,050
elsewhere in Mill Creek.

880
00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:14,290
And there is value
in that, right,

881
00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:16,310
whether the trade
is worth it or not

882
00:41:16,310 --> 00:41:18,240
is another question to have.

883
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:24,780
But you know, there is value
in at least considering it.

884
00:41:24,780 --> 00:41:26,190
The role of the
planning commission

885
00:41:26,190 --> 00:41:27,070
and the city council.

886
00:41:27,070 --> 00:41:27,580
Is this.

887
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:30,510
So really an allowance for
additional digital district

888
00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:32,230
signs in our code?

889
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:34,950
Right gives the city council
the option to consider

890
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:36,010
an exchange agreement.

891
00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:37,740
It creates, in
essence, a receiving

892
00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:40,240
zone for Billboard rights.

893
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:42,990
Right it's important
to note that the city

894
00:41:42,990 --> 00:41:45,300
council has the
authority to negotiate

895
00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:46,830
an exchange agreement.

896
00:41:46,830 --> 00:41:48,270
It's just like a
development agreement.

897
00:41:48,270 --> 00:41:51,090
We can kind of say we would like
the city council to consider

898
00:41:51,090 --> 00:41:53,880
a development agreement that
includes x or trees here

899
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:54,490
or whatnot.

900
00:41:54,490 --> 00:41:56,370
But note that the
city council is

901
00:41:56,370 --> 00:41:59,020
the one that actually negotiates
that development agreement.

902
00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:01,890
But we, the planning
commission and staff

903
00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:03,990
should consider
what are the impacts

904
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:06,340
of additional district signs
in their appropriate locations.

905
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:08,520
And that question was brought
up by a number of planning

906
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,830
commissioners in the
form of, you know,

907
00:42:10,830 --> 00:42:14,880
does a sign make does a sign
make more sense on 1,300

908
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,270
East than on Highland drive?

909
00:42:16,270 --> 00:42:22,110
Given proximity to given
proximity to residential,

910
00:42:22,110 --> 00:42:24,250
we should also consider
the opportunity

911
00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:25,630
to reduce the number
in square footage

912
00:42:25,630 --> 00:42:28,090
of billboards in Millcreek.

913
00:42:28,090 --> 00:42:29,900
We could consider we could.

914
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:31,190
We could consider safety.

915
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:35,800
You know, we could consider
the aesthetic impacts, right?

916
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,280
We can also consider I think
the city council would welcome

917
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:44,530
hearing from you on what
should an agreement look

918
00:42:44,530 --> 00:42:47,570
like in broad kind
of categories.

919
00:42:47,570 --> 00:42:50,080
Right should we limit it
to nonconforming billboards

920
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,870
or does it make more sense to
remove billboards immediately

921
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:58,180
adjacent to the city center
to maximize the visual benefit

922
00:42:58,180 --> 00:42:59,210
near the city center?

923
00:42:59,210 --> 00:42:59,750
I don't know.

924
00:42:59,750 --> 00:43:01,220
I don't know the answers
to these questions.

925
00:43:01,220 --> 00:43:05,050
But the point is, there
is precedent to consider

926
00:43:05,050 --> 00:43:06,410
these in the Kansas City area.

927
00:43:06,410 --> 00:43:08,640
And it's and it's worth asking.

928
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,370
So based on the planning
commissioners concerns,

929
00:43:12,370 --> 00:43:15,460
I crafted four possible options.

930
00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:16,260
Right?

931
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:20,400
option one is to amend
the site ordinance

932
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,390
to allow for up to two
digital district signs.

933
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:24,960
And that's what was written
here, subject to an exchange

934
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,130
agreement that
removes billboards

935
00:43:26,130 --> 00:43:27,900
in the Mill Creek city center.

936
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:31,590
So this option could
allow for the council

937
00:43:31,590 --> 00:43:33,510
to consider the
construction of up to two

938
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:34,630
digital district signs.

939
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:35,950
They could do one.

940
00:43:35,950 --> 00:43:37,430
They could do none.

941
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:39,350
One at either end of
chambers avenue, subject

942
00:43:39,350 --> 00:43:40,620
to an exchange agreement.

943
00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:42,740
Billboards to be removed
would be in the city center

944
00:43:42,740 --> 00:43:46,310
and have a model motion here.

945
00:43:46,310 --> 00:43:48,890
Option two would be to allow for
up to two additional district

946
00:43:48,890 --> 00:43:51,740
signs subject to an exchange
agreement that removes

947
00:43:51,740 --> 00:43:53,480
any nonconforming
Billboard in Mill Creek

948
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,840
or a Billboard that is
located near a gateway.

949
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,100
And I suggest some
additional criteria.

950
00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:01,430
So any Billboard
that's taller than 32

951
00:44:01,430 --> 00:44:04,100
in height, any Billboard
that's larger than square feet

952
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:11,390
and signs on any
two decked Billboard

953
00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:14,690
or any Billboard that is within
500 feet of municipal boundary.

954
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:17,690
So four of those five things
are actually listed in our code

955
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:19,680
as types of billboards that
we don't want any more.

956
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:20,330
Right?

957
00:44:20,330 --> 00:44:24,960
and so, you know, this body
could advise the city council.

958
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,370
Look, you know, it's not
it's not worth it's not worth

959
00:44:28,370 --> 00:44:33,800
the effort to remove a small
short sign when really our goal

960
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,680
ought to be right
to remove the signs

961
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,190
that have the greatest impact.

962
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:40,340
And one way to do that
and maybe the best

963
00:44:40,340 --> 00:44:42,470
kind of rational
policy basis to do that

964
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:46,170
is to say, look at the signs
that wouldn't be allowed today

965
00:44:46,170 --> 00:44:49,530
and remove those
and find the signs

966
00:44:49,530 --> 00:44:51,880
that are most in non-compliance
in some way or the other.

967
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,170
What are the tallest signs?

968
00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:55,010
What are the biggest signs?

969
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:56,540
You pick?

970
00:44:56,540 --> 00:44:58,790
I think that's
entirely reasonable.

971
00:44:58,790 --> 00:45:01,040
That's option two.

972
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,790
Option 3 is essentially an
amalgamation of this option,

973
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:07,290
but it would only allow for
one additional district sign.

974
00:45:07,290 --> 00:45:11,660
So again, you know, I heard
from planning commissioners that

975
00:45:11,660 --> 00:45:14,960
really like what's
causing some heartburn is

976
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,690
the idea of a digital district
sign on Highland drive.

977
00:45:17,690 --> 00:45:19,340
Well, maybe the
city council would

978
00:45:19,340 --> 00:45:21,830
be well advised to
do one just on 1,300

979
00:45:21,830 --> 00:45:23,250
East and chambers Avenue.

980
00:45:23,250 --> 00:45:26,090
And that could also be
approached with the idea of,

981
00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:27,560
well, do we want to move?

982
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,540
do we want to move just
the most nonconforming

983
00:45:29,540 --> 00:45:31,200
signs in the city for that one?

984
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,480
Or do we want to focus the
sign removal in for signs

985
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,130
in the city center?

986
00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:40,500
And I've got I've got two
model motions for that.

987
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:43,380
And option four
is, is no changes.

988
00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:48,090
Right if the planning commission
has really strong feelings

989
00:45:48,090 --> 00:45:52,260
that the trade off of a
digital of a digital signage

990
00:45:52,260 --> 00:45:56,080
is just not worth an exchange
agreement at any price.

991
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,760
Right then the city council
should hear that too.

992
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,310
And in that case, you
would be making a motion.

993
00:46:03,310 --> 00:46:08,050
To change table 1861 13 the
draft ordinance to state

994
00:46:08,050 --> 00:46:10,250
that only one digital
district sign is allowed.

995
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:11,190
And that's that one.

996
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:13,820


997
00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:18,320
So again, kind of my
last couple slides here,

998
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,400
and this is a repeat from
the last presentation.

999
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,900
But to my knowledge and I've
looked all over the country,

1000
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:26,180
right, this is the
only voluntary exchange

1001
00:46:26,180 --> 00:46:29,970
concept where the square footage
of billboards gets reduced.

1002
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:32,870
And I know that this is
a policy of the city.

1003
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:35,640
I the digital signs
have an impact, right?

1004
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,880
But I also know that this
digital sign is not nearly as

1005
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,970
bad as some of the digital
signs that we've approved

1006
00:46:43,970 --> 00:46:46,970
even a few years ago, because
we've controlled better

1007
00:46:46,970 --> 00:46:49,100
for brightness, we've
controlled better for, you know,

1008
00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:52,620
where that sign, how the images
of that sign is directed.

1009
00:46:52,620 --> 00:46:57,920
We limit it to a certain
degree of aspect from the sign.

1010
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:03,090
It is it is better designed in
the sense that it has a base.

1011
00:47:03,090 --> 00:47:08,210
It has, you know, materials that
associate it with Mill Creek

1012
00:47:08,210 --> 00:47:09,590
common.

1013
00:47:09,590 --> 00:47:13,040
It also has controls in the
form of public messaging

1014
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,530
that, you know, that allows
us to communicate on the sign.

1015
00:47:17,530 --> 00:47:18,780
And that has value, too.

1016
00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:23,590
Right now, again, this is
just a preference, right?

1017
00:47:23,590 --> 00:47:27,330
I know this is not
everybody's preference, but.

1018
00:47:27,330 --> 00:47:29,190
I priced digital
signage differently

1019
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:31,120
than I think some people do.

1020
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,080
People younger than me.

1021
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,910
Price sometimes digital signage
differently than others do.

1022
00:47:36,910 --> 00:47:40,740
But when I see a big
tall billboard, right.

1023
00:47:40,740 --> 00:47:42,420
I personally would
prefer a smaller

1024
00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:44,910
sign if it were digital.

1025
00:47:44,910 --> 00:47:50,100
I understand that some people
may not feel that way, right?

1026
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:52,200
Because I acknowledged that
a set of considerations

1027
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,180
also kind of prompt these
divergent and deeply

1028
00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:56,220
held attitudes that
we really can't square

1029
00:47:56,220 --> 00:47:58,450
right at the end of the day.

1030
00:47:58,450 --> 00:48:01,230
You know, I can come up
with four options for you

1031
00:48:01,230 --> 00:48:02,940
to consider or to
base your motion

1032
00:48:02,940 --> 00:48:04,620
or to base your
recommendation on.

1033
00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:07,950
But what I can't
do is, is change

1034
00:48:07,950 --> 00:48:10,510
anybody's mind in this room
about aesthetic issues.

1035
00:48:10,510 --> 00:48:13,090
Right we like some things.

1036
00:48:13,090 --> 00:48:14,230
We dislike some things.

1037
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:18,090
And that's and that's
hard to square.

1038
00:48:18,090 --> 00:48:20,820
The other thing is
and I know this issue,

1039
00:48:20,820 --> 00:48:25,650
this issue comes up in the
traffic in the traffic safety

1040
00:48:25,650 --> 00:48:29,400
memorandum I, I put together.

1041
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,830
And it's important to
note what I didn't say

1042
00:48:31,830 --> 00:48:34,080
and what I didn't
say was that there

1043
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,030
was not an impact
on digital signage,

1044
00:48:36,030 --> 00:48:37,420
that digital signage is.

1045
00:48:37,420 --> 00:48:40,860
I did not say that digital
signage is not distracting.

1046
00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:43,590
What I did simply do was
look at traffic accidents

1047
00:48:43,590 --> 00:48:44,260
that happened.

1048
00:48:44,260 --> 00:48:47,250
And I looked for a
simple correlation,

1049
00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:51,430
you know, in the sense that
you can tell when the pandemic

1050
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:52,970
hit by looking at traffic data.

1051
00:48:52,970 --> 00:48:57,260
Right you can make a really easy
kind of assessment about that.

1052
00:48:57,260 --> 00:49:00,317
And I couldn't
identify a correlation

1053
00:49:00,317 --> 00:49:01,750
between the presence
of a digital Billboard

1054
00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:03,340
and an increase in accidents.

1055
00:49:03,340 --> 00:49:07,420
Now, admittedly, we have
limited data for this sign.

1056
00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:10,420
I did find or I did
get from the traffic

1057
00:49:10,420 --> 00:49:15,880
from unified police, an
indication of the traffic

1058
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,220
accidents at 2,300 East.

1059
00:49:18,220 --> 00:49:20,530
There really isn't
much discussion

1060
00:49:20,530 --> 00:49:22,090
on the nature of that
accident, whether it's

1061
00:49:22,090 --> 00:49:25,990
caused by distraction or speed
or drunk driving or whatever.

1062
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:32,080
But that number 31 is in line
statistically with the trend

1063
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,080
that we've seen for
years on this road.

1064
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,050
And so really the
question is, you know,

1065
00:49:38,050 --> 00:49:39,730
the fact is we
tolerate all sorts

1066
00:49:39,730 --> 00:49:41,270
of distractions when we drive.

1067
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:46,420
Right you know, some people
some people are, you know,

1068
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:48,880
changing dials or some
people are swiping right when

1069
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,980
they should be turning left.

1070
00:49:50,980 --> 00:49:53,610
Some people are doing
all sorts of things

1071
00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:56,290
that cause distraction.

1072
00:49:56,290 --> 00:50:00,040
And the real question is, you
know, in the midst of all that.

1073
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,840
Right does a digital
Billboard create

1074
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,930
an intolerable distraction?

1075
00:50:06,930 --> 00:50:08,760
And would we be talking
about distraction

1076
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,750
if the city owned and operated
all the time on that sign?

1077
00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:13,250
It?

1078
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:14,410
I don't know.

1079
00:50:14,410 --> 00:50:15,750
I really don't know.

1080
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:19,350
This question tends not to come
up in the context of smaller,

1081
00:50:19,350 --> 00:50:20,500
slightly smaller signs.

1082
00:50:20,500 --> 00:50:22,720
It does come up in the
context of this sign.

1083
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:23,820
And I don't know
how much of that

1084
00:50:23,820 --> 00:50:26,850
has to do with the nature
of the exchange agreement

1085
00:50:26,850 --> 00:50:28,390
the last time or
the sign itself.

1086
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:30,120
I just don't know.

1087
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,310
But there are a lot of
these signs out there.

1088
00:50:33,310 --> 00:50:34,720
They're on our highways.

1089
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:41,170
And it would stand to reason
that if they were deadly.

1090
00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:42,830
Right we would know about it.

1091
00:50:42,830 --> 00:50:43,340
We would.

1092
00:50:43,340 --> 00:50:46,010
We would see we would
kind of we would.

1093
00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:48,030
We would be able to
see that in the data.

1094
00:50:48,030 --> 00:50:50,910
I can't I can't distinguish
that from the noise in the data.

1095
00:50:50,910 --> 00:50:53,540


1096
00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:56,060
So my professional
recommendation

1097
00:50:56,060 --> 00:50:59,360
can't speak to political or
financial considerations.

1098
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,960
I think that if the city council
pursues this exchange, that it

1099
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,670
should pursue an
advantage as advantageous

1100
00:51:04,670 --> 00:51:05,670
agreement as possible.

1101
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:09,790
We should ask for the most
billboards as possible.

1102
00:51:09,790 --> 00:51:11,120
Ownership and control matters.

1103
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:12,700
And that's why I like
Mill Creek's kind

1104
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:15,220
of approach to this
better than Kansas City's.

1105
00:51:15,220 --> 00:51:17,350
So in exchange, where a
sign company maintains

1106
00:51:17,350 --> 00:51:19,180
private ownership of the
resulting digital sign,

1107
00:51:19,180 --> 00:51:21,790
I think which should be
much higher than 3.1.

1108
00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:25,660
I mean, it's interesting to
think that that's where, you

1109
00:51:25,660 --> 00:51:27,910
know, that's roughly where
Lee's city and Kansas City

1110
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:31,180
landed on signs that
are permanently vested.

1111
00:51:31,180 --> 00:51:33,790
And again, there's no
real perfect solution

1112
00:51:33,790 --> 00:51:35,200
to reducing the number
of square footage

1113
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,180
of billboards in Mill Creek.

1114
00:51:37,180 --> 00:51:41,620
But based on my negotiating
with Billboard companies,

1115
00:51:41,620 --> 00:51:43,330
working with them,
working against them

1116
00:51:43,330 --> 00:51:45,770
in some cases over 2 decades.

1117
00:51:45,770 --> 00:51:48,250
Right I think my recommendation
is when we have an opportunity

1118
00:51:48,250 --> 00:51:50,320
to be proactive with
Billboard companies,

1119
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:51,890
we should at least try.

1120
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:56,410
Right and this is a method to
actually permanently remove

1121
00:51:56,410 --> 00:51:59,800
billboards which are among the
most difficult vested land use

1122
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,830
rights that we have in the
state next to railroads,

1123
00:52:02,830 --> 00:52:08,160
mines and water to manage and.

1124
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,380
You know, some sort of
exchange of owned billboards

1125
00:52:10,380 --> 00:52:11,820
to lease time on
a city owned sign

1126
00:52:11,820 --> 00:52:13,290
is the most effective
method I can think

1127
00:52:13,290 --> 00:52:15,150
of to achieving a policy goal.

1128
00:52:15,150 --> 00:52:18,610
So just to recap our Community
Council recommendations.

1129
00:52:18,610 --> 00:52:22,400


1130
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,633
You know where they are.

1131
00:52:23,633 --> 00:52:25,500
I'll just read you the Mount
Olympus community councils.

1132
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:27,360
That's that's the
additional one.

1133
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,200
They met in March and they
made a unanimous recommendation

1134
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,720
to deny among the
members of attendance.

1135
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,170
The motion was based on
concerns about traffic safety

1136
00:52:36,170 --> 00:52:38,790
and the aesthetics
of digital signs.

1137
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:41,480
And the verbatim summary
of the recommendation

1138
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,030
is included in the
staff report, which is

1139
00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:46,130
available on the Creek website.

1140
00:52:46,130 --> 00:52:48,800
That's that's my
presentation tonight.

1141
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,100
I don't know if you
have any questions.

1142
00:52:50,100 --> 00:52:51,867
There are a number of people
in the audience that may

1143
00:52:51,867 --> 00:52:53,190
want to speak to this as well.

1144
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:54,450
Of course I welcome that.

1145
00:52:54,450 --> 00:52:56,210
That's at your
discretion as a chair,

1146
00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:59,210
but let me know if you
have any questions.

1147
00:52:59,210 --> 00:53:00,210
Thank you, Francis.

1148
00:53:00,210 --> 00:53:02,950
Questions right now for
Francis on the digital signs.

1149
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:06,380


1150
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:11,300
I just have this is just more
of my curiosity to understand

1151
00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:14,120
the whole sign business.

1152
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,130
To what extent may
a property owner

1153
00:53:16,130 --> 00:53:20,700
raise a Billboard rental
rate when the lease expires?

1154
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:24,030
Can they potentially just
raise it to an absurd amount?

1155
00:53:24,030 --> 00:53:26,040
And that would be a way
to get rid of a Billboard.

1156
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,610


1157
00:53:29,610 --> 00:53:31,050
I don't know.

1158
00:53:31,050 --> 00:53:33,790
I've only seen I've only
seen one Billboard lease.

1159
00:53:33,790 --> 00:53:38,640
And it's pretty difficult to do.

1160
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,960
I think it can be done and
I think it has been done.

1161
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,110
And that's probably
why the state

1162
00:53:43,110 --> 00:53:44,277
why there's that provision.

1163
00:53:44,277 --> 00:53:45,510
That's one of the
reasons why there's

1164
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:47,040
that provision in
state law that allows

1165
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,065
these billboards to move.

1166
00:53:48,065 --> 00:53:50,640


1167
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,980
But I mean, I could tell you
the Billboard list that I

1168
00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:56,730
have seen is pretty punishing.

1169
00:53:56,730 --> 00:53:59,190
It's difficult to get out of.

1170
00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:02,640
Yeah, I mean, because we keep
wondering, like our billboards

1171
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,770
really going to always
be the way to advertise.

1172
00:54:05,770 --> 00:54:08,410
But I mean, that's not a
decision for us to make.

1173
00:54:08,410 --> 00:54:11,250
But I'm just saying,
I mean, I saw one

1174
00:54:11,250 --> 00:54:15,090
the other day that's, you know,
advertising to advertise there,

1175
00:54:15,090 --> 00:54:16,020
right?

1176
00:54:16,020 --> 00:54:22,130
Yeah OK.

1177
00:54:22,130 --> 00:54:24,070
The other question I
think I can't remember,

1178
00:54:24,070 --> 00:54:25,510
I didn't write it down.

1179
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:27,260
I think it was the Kansas City.

1180
00:54:27,260 --> 00:54:30,970
One of them required that
the billboards, the digital

1181
00:54:30,970 --> 00:54:34,810
billboards be within two
could not be within 250 feet

1182
00:54:34,810 --> 00:54:37,040
of a residential correct zone.

1183
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,980
That would not be
true for the ones

1184
00:54:38,980 --> 00:54:43,160
that we are proposing
for the comments.

1185
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,920
Correct so this sign, if one
were to go on Highland drive,

1186
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,440
it would be 300 and
something feet to the nearest

1187
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,470
residence, which is that duplex
that's being built on woodland.

1188
00:54:53,470 --> 00:54:58,030
OK then how about on the
other side, on highland?

1189
00:54:58,030 --> 00:54:59,920
Not close.

1190
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:03,340
I mean, this isn't a
mixed use zone, right?

1191
00:55:03,340 --> 00:55:08,300
So, I mean, there
will be residences.

1192
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:08,960
Right right.

1193
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:10,660
All all around us.

1194
00:55:10,660 --> 00:55:12,020
But but it's mixed use.

1195
00:55:12,020 --> 00:55:14,570
It's not but it's mixed use
and it's not residential.

1196
00:55:14,570 --> 00:55:17,900


1197
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:19,015
Other questions for Francis.

1198
00:55:19,015 --> 00:55:21,860


1199
00:55:21,860 --> 00:55:25,160
Yeah, I have a general
question on this.

1200
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,580
So I understand that the
city is the applicant here.

1201
00:55:28,580 --> 00:55:30,690
What's initiating the change?

1202
00:55:30,690 --> 00:55:32,200
Like what's the
motivation behind it?

1203
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,500
Is it income for the city?

1204
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:37,670
Is it the idea to reduce
to try to reduce billboards

1205
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:39,270
within the city limits?

1206
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:41,040
And this is a method
in order to do that.

1207
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:45,420
And I'm just curious on
why this is coming to.

1208
00:55:45,420 --> 00:55:49,260
Yeah so this is
initiated by the city.

1209
00:55:49,260 --> 00:55:51,740
And it's initiated
for two reasons.

1210
00:55:51,740 --> 00:55:55,550
I have I have a city manager
and a marketing department

1211
00:55:55,550 --> 00:55:57,710
and a community
life team that has

1212
00:55:57,710 --> 00:56:01,230
worked very hard on promoting
events on Creek common.

1213
00:56:01,230 --> 00:56:07,870
And they see and
they hear the value.

1214
00:56:07,870 --> 00:56:12,490
From people who live
nearby in understanding

1215
00:56:12,490 --> 00:56:14,160
what's happening on
Mill Creek common.

1216
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,390
In other words, they like it
as an effective communications

1217
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:19,160
tool and they consider it an
effective communications tool.

1218
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,100
The city does not make any
revenue off of this sign.

1219
00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:25,450
But what we do get I mean, in
fact, in fact, the Billboard

1220
00:56:25,450 --> 00:56:27,910
company, the
billboard, the Reagan,

1221
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:30,280
which participated in
this digital district

1222
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:31,070
sign, paid for it.

1223
00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:32,240
All right.

1224
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,590
We pay for the
electricity, but that's it.

1225
00:56:35,590 --> 00:56:37,940
They pay to they pay
to erect the sign.

1226
00:56:37,940 --> 00:56:39,950
They pay to manage
it on our behalf.

1227
00:56:39,950 --> 00:56:42,800
We control the messaging on
40% of the time on the sign.

1228
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,570
That's what the
city gets, right?

1229
00:56:44,570 --> 00:56:48,220
We don't get any residual
from the advertising revenue

1230
00:56:48,220 --> 00:56:49,670
that Reagan puts on the sign.

1231
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:55,210
We do we do have a 10% discount
for Creek owned businesses.

1232
00:56:55,210 --> 00:56:58,390
And that's why you do
see some local businesses

1233
00:56:58,390 --> 00:57:00,850
advertising on the sign.

1234
00:57:00,850 --> 00:57:08,030
And we hear from Creek
owned businesses that they

1235
00:57:08,030 --> 00:57:11,180
like having that opportunity.

1236
00:57:11,180 --> 00:57:15,200
So those are the city's reasons.

1237
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,180
Now, from my perspective
as a planner,

1238
00:57:17,180 --> 00:57:20,060
like I don't necessarily care
about the marketing, right?

1239
00:57:20,060 --> 00:57:25,070
As a planner, I'm more
interested in that's

1240
00:57:25,070 --> 00:57:27,290
1 hat that I wear, right?

1241
00:57:27,290 --> 00:57:30,670
I'm more interested
in its impact visually

1242
00:57:30,670 --> 00:57:31,980
and aesthetically.

1243
00:57:31,980 --> 00:57:36,440
And and so that's why I've
always recommended that.

1244
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,480
And I've always thought
that a sign like this

1245
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,820
doesn't make sense absent some
sort of exchange agreement.

1246
00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:44,120
Right? because if we just put
a sign up that's that big,

1247
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:45,920
I think we're just adding
to the visual clutter,

1248
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,080
not taking it away.

1249
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,080
However, if we can come up with
some sort of exchange agreement

1250
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,310
whereby a sign company agrees
to take down signs that we find

1251
00:57:55,310 --> 00:57:58,070
annoying, then
maybe that sign has

1252
00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:59,520
a little bit more value to me.

1253
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,360


1254
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:04,570
Does that answer your question?

1255
00:58:04,570 --> 00:58:05,380
It does.

1256
00:58:05,380 --> 00:58:06,850
Yeah I appreciate that.

1257
00:58:06,850 --> 00:58:12,270
And I. Yeah I think I'll
for our discussion point,

1258
00:58:12,270 --> 00:58:13,990
I'll have some
follow UPS to that.

1259
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:16,810
But that at least just
the data on why that is.

1260
00:58:16,810 --> 00:58:17,850
That's that's great.

1261
00:58:17,850 --> 00:58:18,490
Thank you.

1262
00:58:18,490 --> 00:58:21,620


1263
00:58:21,620 --> 00:58:24,680
I just have a clarification
question as well.

1264
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:30,170
Francis so we as you know,
because you've sent them to us,

1265
00:58:30,170 --> 00:58:31,760
received.

1266
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,770
You know, stuff from
the community and stuff

1267
00:58:33,770 --> 00:58:35,040
from the sign companies.

1268
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,910
And in some I don't know
how much time you've

1269
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:42,380
had to look at them because you
know, some we got like today

1270
00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:48,620
but have you looked at there
are some comments in these that

1271
00:58:48,620 --> 00:58:52,670
say this is against
your code and are we

1272
00:58:52,670 --> 00:58:56,810
matching those up in our code?

1273
00:58:56,810 --> 00:59:01,340
Like if it is going to be
are we overriding your code

1274
00:59:01,340 --> 00:59:05,270
or do we have to look
at these few comments

1275
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:07,340
and make sure we're meeting you?

1276
00:59:07,340 --> 00:59:09,030
I didn't I didn't
receive that comment.

1277
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:13,820
I mean, what I can say
is if you go to the state

1278
00:59:13,820 --> 00:59:18,440
statute on Billboard relocation
and and city's relationship

1279
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,640
with billboards, it it does.

1280
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,660
It does speak to the ways in
which a city and a sign company

1281
00:59:26,660 --> 00:59:29,190
can remove a Billboard.

1282
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:32,060
One of them is an
exchange agreement,

1283
00:59:32,060 --> 00:59:34,500
and that's way up
at the top right?

1284
00:59:34,500 --> 00:59:38,120
Deed gift exchange,
condemnation.

1285
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,020
And that exchange agreement.

1286
00:59:40,020 --> 00:59:43,610
We've done one
already seems to be

1287
00:59:43,610 --> 00:59:47,120
a plenary power of
the city council

1288
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,450
to consider within the
context of the zone.

1289
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:54,950
Right and that's why we're
proposing a zone change

1290
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:57,860
to create this kind
of receiving area

1291
00:59:57,860 --> 01:00:01,760
for some of those sign rights.

1292
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,190
33rd South is a road, right?

1293
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:06,950
But it is not a highway.

1294
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:10,190
It is not a grade
separated interchange.

1295
01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:13,580
And so those provisions of the
Utah outdoor advertising act

1296
01:00:13,580 --> 01:00:17,030
that apply to grade
separated highways

1297
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:18,670
don't apply to 33rd South.

1298
01:00:18,670 --> 01:00:21,210


1299
01:00:21,210 --> 01:00:23,550
It's regulated as though
it were a city street

1300
01:00:23,550 --> 01:00:25,990
as far as UDOT is concerned.

1301
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:28,590


1302
01:00:28,590 --> 01:00:29,470
Thanks, Diane.

1303
01:00:29,470 --> 01:00:30,280
Hey, Dwayne.

1304
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,830
Do you have any questions
for Francis at this point?

1305
01:00:33,830 --> 01:00:36,870
OK all right.

1306
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:40,180
We see you saying
shaking your head no.

1307
01:00:40,180 --> 01:00:43,570
And you can hear us OK.

1308
01:00:43,570 --> 01:00:44,550
Dwayne, can you hear us?

1309
01:00:44,550 --> 01:00:48,890


1310
01:00:48,890 --> 01:00:50,150
OK all right.

1311
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:50,790
Thank you.

1312
01:00:50,790 --> 01:00:53,450


1313
01:00:53,450 --> 01:00:56,120
Well, Thank you, Francis, for
covering the DEIB Community

1314
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,090
Council recommendation,
because there

1315
01:00:59,090 --> 01:01:01,280
are some changes
to the ordinance

1316
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,180
when we reviewed it last month.

1317
01:01:04,180 --> 01:01:06,930
I would like to hear
additional comments from.

1318
01:01:06,930 --> 01:01:09,810
The public so we can gather
all the information we need.

1319
01:01:09,810 --> 01:01:11,710
And then we can
have our discussion.

1320
01:01:11,710 --> 01:01:14,650
So those of you
that are here, I'll

1321
01:01:14,650 --> 01:01:17,550
ask you to come up in
no particular order.

1322
01:01:17,550 --> 01:01:19,150
Give us your name and if
you'd like your address

1323
01:01:19,150 --> 01:01:22,600
and your comments about three
minutes is amount of time

1324
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:23,930
because I do have
quite a few to read.

1325
01:01:23,930 --> 01:01:27,230
And then we can intersperse
and I'll read some, hopefully.

1326
01:01:27,230 --> 01:01:28,720
Victoria you can read
some so people don't

1327
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:30,650
have to hear from me too long.

1328
01:01:30,650 --> 01:01:31,580
But go.

1329
01:01:31,580 --> 01:01:32,400
Go ahead.

1330
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:32,900
Thank you.

1331
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:38,070
I'm Angel vice 3610,
Carolyn street and.

1332
01:01:38,070 --> 01:01:39,750
I'm not going to repeat
what I said last time

1333
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:40,990
because you heard that.

1334
01:01:40,990 --> 01:01:43,180
So there's a couple other
things that came up.

1335
01:01:43,180 --> 01:01:46,960
One, I would assert that
billboards are a dying breed.

1336
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,710
You do see this Billboard
available signs all the time.

1337
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:55,110
And by converting them
to digital billboards,

1338
01:01:55,110 --> 01:01:58,250
we are giving Billboard
companies a lifeline.

1339
01:01:58,250 --> 01:02:01,490
We are helping them to make
it into the next century.

1340
01:02:01,490 --> 01:02:04,140
I hope we don't do that.

1341
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:07,680
Francis said that it is a
benefit to the city center

1342
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,710
to have digital billboards.

1343
01:02:09,710 --> 01:02:15,570
I disagree, and I think that's
an assumption, not a fact.

1344
01:02:15,570 --> 01:02:19,410
And when he talks about
helping venture out,

1345
01:02:19,410 --> 01:02:21,390
venture out doesn't
make money for the city,

1346
01:02:21,390 --> 01:02:22,780
it costs money for the city.

1347
01:02:22,780 --> 01:02:26,160
So really, is that something
we should sacrifice

1348
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,860
our aesthetics for
to help that people

1349
01:02:28,860 --> 01:02:30,190
want to come ice skate great.

1350
01:02:30,190 --> 01:02:32,500
If they don't hear about it,
it's not the end of the world.

1351
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:36,580
We're not making money
off of that exchange.

1352
01:02:36,580 --> 01:02:38,360
There is a fifth option.

1353
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,380
I would assert that wasn't
in the five options of what

1354
01:02:41,380 --> 01:02:42,610
you could propose tonight.

1355
01:02:42,610 --> 01:02:44,890
The fifth option would
be you've already

1356
01:02:44,890 --> 01:02:46,880
polluted my neighborhood here.

1357
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,190
How about Olympus cove?

1358
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:50,360
Get the next digital one.

1359
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,790
If we have to exchange static
billboards for a digital,

1360
01:02:54,790 --> 01:02:58,860
why not up by Dan's
or up by smith's?

1361
01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:01,350
Spread the love.

1362
01:03:01,350 --> 01:03:05,550
And then finally,
I would remind you

1363
01:03:05,550 --> 01:03:10,860
that in 2021 and now members
of the community have come out,

1364
01:03:10,860 --> 01:03:13,740
have emailed, have texted
not as many tonight

1365
01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:15,410
as there were three years ago.

1366
01:03:15,410 --> 01:03:17,010
A lot of people are
burned out, but people

1367
01:03:17,010 --> 01:03:19,350
have made it known
aesthetically,

1368
01:03:19,350 --> 01:03:20,970
it's not what we want.

1369
01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:23,070
I would rather stay
with the status quo,

1370
01:03:23,070 --> 01:03:25,470
and I've heard that
over and over again.

1371
01:03:25,470 --> 01:03:31,080
So I hope that y'all would
consider aesthetics is,

1372
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,310
like Francis said,
an important thing.

1373
01:03:33,310 --> 01:03:37,150
And the community keeps saying
it's not the aesthetic we want.

1374
01:03:37,150 --> 01:03:37,930
Thank you.

1375
01:03:37,930 --> 01:03:38,740
Thank you.

1376
01:03:38,740 --> 01:03:43,900


1377
01:03:43,900 --> 01:03:45,650
My name is Marv Paulsen.

1378
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:48,900
I live at 3631 South Caroline.

1379
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:51,780
And three years ago.

1380
01:03:51,780 --> 01:03:54,350
No, I'm not complaining
at you guys.

1381
01:03:54,350 --> 01:04:00,190
OK this goes back to
what I thought was a.

1382
01:04:00,190 --> 01:04:03,370
Binding compromise
three years ago,

1383
01:04:03,370 --> 01:04:08,020
and I feel personally betrayed
now that is brought back up

1384
01:04:08,020 --> 01:04:10,750
and I feel that the
community is being betrayed

1385
01:04:10,750 --> 01:04:13,250
by bringing this back up.

1386
01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:19,100
And I guess I could say that
option 4 was the choice.

1387
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:25,270
But I have to emphasize my
feeling of major betrayal

1388
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:28,190
by the council.

1389
01:04:28,190 --> 01:04:32,290
And I hope you'll carry
that message to them.

1390
01:04:32,290 --> 01:04:33,930
Uh, just to comment
on this little thing

1391
01:04:33,930 --> 01:04:36,180
that was put out
here on 33rd south,

1392
01:04:36,180 --> 01:04:38,050
this electronic Billboard.

1393
01:04:38,050 --> 01:04:41,230
I don't know who's running that
thing, but in a previous life.

1394
01:04:41,230 --> 01:04:44,880
I was in advertising
and who's ever doing

1395
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,490
the graphics on that thing.

1396
01:04:47,490 --> 01:04:49,680
I got to tell you, it's.

1397
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,880
It's uncommunicative.

1398
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,350
Thanks, guys.

1399
01:04:54,350 --> 01:04:55,390
Thank you, Mr Paulsen.

1400
01:04:55,390 --> 01:05:05,600


1401
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,750
Congratulations on
your re-election.

1402
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:09,770
I can tell you're thrilled.

1403
01:05:09,770 --> 01:05:11,420
Thank you.

1404
01:05:11,420 --> 01:05:15,710
Yes so just before I comment,
because I've got it in writing,

1405
01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:19,220
can I just submit for
the record what I've

1406
01:05:19,220 --> 01:05:20,850
got here after I've read it?

1407
01:05:20,850 --> 01:05:23,520
Is that OK or is that
against the rules or.

1408
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,900
No save somebody the
summarizing effort.

1409
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:26,500
You could do that.

1410
01:05:26,500 --> 01:05:29,460
I think I have it here if
it's the one you emailed.

1411
01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:31,230
No, I haven't emailed anything.

1412
01:05:31,230 --> 01:05:32,880
So this is just.

1413
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:33,743
You can give it to us.

1414
01:05:33,743 --> 01:05:35,210
You can shoot me an
email and I'll make sure

1415
01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:37,580
that it gets into the record
or just I'm willing to just

1416
01:05:37,580 --> 01:05:38,870
hand it over to.

1417
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:39,630
That works too.

1418
01:05:39,630 --> 01:05:40,500
OK, perfect.

1419
01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:42,560
All right.

1420
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:47,010
So why isn't the one sign
we have already enough?

1421
01:05:47,010 --> 01:05:50,210
In the staff report submitted
for this meeting in the section

1422
01:05:50,210 --> 01:05:53,550
titled options for an
exchange agreement.

1423
01:05:53,550 --> 01:05:56,970
Is this opening phrase after
hearing from city staff

1424
01:05:56,970 --> 01:06:00,960
and community partners about the
effectiveness of city messaging

1425
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,300
on the Mill Creek common
digital district sign,

1426
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:08,160
I want to repeat that the
effectiveness of the Mill Creek

1427
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:12,510
common digital district sign,
as in singular, as in one

1428
01:06:12,510 --> 01:06:14,140
Billboard.

1429
01:06:14,140 --> 01:06:17,170
So staff and others are saying
the one Billboard already

1430
01:06:17,170 --> 01:06:19,840
installed managed to
draw in enough people

1431
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,600
to make all the Mill Creek
common events for the last two

1432
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,270
years super successful.

1433
01:06:25,270 --> 01:06:27,620
One is clearly enough.

1434
01:06:27,620 --> 01:06:31,660
We don't need two more to do
the job when one can do it.

1435
01:06:31,660 --> 01:06:35,200
Signage saturation
in the current

1436
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:39,400
sign code 19.80
2.1 85 called off

1437
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,480
premises signs and billboards.

1438
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,280
Section h describes a
minimum 500 lineal feet

1439
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,590
separation requirement
for billboards

1440
01:06:47,590 --> 01:06:49,570
on the same side of the street.

1441
01:06:49,570 --> 01:06:53,530
The trace ombres Billboard
is only 314ft away

1442
01:06:53,530 --> 01:06:56,650
from and on the same
side as the proposed

1443
01:06:56,650 --> 01:06:58,760
location on Highland drive.

1444
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,870
That violates the
separation requirement.

1445
01:07:01,870 --> 01:07:05,740
That spot is also only 69ft
from a self storage ground

1446
01:07:05,740 --> 01:07:08,570
sign directly across the street.

1447
01:07:08,570 --> 01:07:11,630
That violates the minimum 100
foot separation requirement

1448
01:07:11,630 --> 01:07:15,410
between a Billboard and a ground
sign as described in section I.

1449
01:07:15,410 --> 01:07:18,890
So why can this proposal go
forward without conforming

1450
01:07:18,890 --> 01:07:20,220
to those requirements?

1451
01:07:20,220 --> 01:07:22,580
It's because it's being
called a digital district

1452
01:07:22,580 --> 01:07:24,450
sign rather than a Billboard.

1453
01:07:24,450 --> 01:07:26,240
So poof.

1454
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,270
Separation requirement
doesn't apply anymore.

1455
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:31,940
My guess is that we have
these separation requirements

1456
01:07:31,940 --> 01:07:33,710
because we don't want to
saturate an area with too

1457
01:07:33,710 --> 01:07:35,350
much Billboard signage.

1458
01:07:35,350 --> 01:07:38,090
Three digital billboards
all on a single city block

1459
01:07:38,090 --> 01:07:40,110
is ridiculous, in my opinion.

1460
01:07:40,110 --> 01:07:42,020
And exactly the
density the Billboard

1461
01:07:42,020 --> 01:07:43,680
code is designed to prevent.

1462
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,590
Except when we
weirdly pretend that

1463
01:07:45,590 --> 01:07:48,170
it doesn't apply because we're
not calling it a Billboard.

1464
01:07:48,170 --> 01:07:50,600
Calling them district signs
rather than billboards

1465
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,700
is a distinction, in
my opinion, without

1466
01:07:52,700 --> 01:07:54,720
a functional difference.

1467
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,850
So what will you be
doing in 40 years?

1468
01:07:57,850 --> 01:08:00,340
Some people are claiming that
the Billboard exchange is

1469
01:08:00,340 --> 01:08:03,550
a good deal because the digital
billboards will be temporary

1470
01:08:03,550 --> 01:08:05,620
as then they would
tolerate the visual blight

1471
01:08:05,620 --> 01:08:09,280
because the digital billboards
would come down after 40 years.

1472
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,760
That's misleading, and
it's not based in fact.

1473
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:14,330
40 years isn't temporary.

1474
01:08:14,330 --> 01:08:16,689
It's the rest of my life.

1475
01:08:16,689 --> 01:08:19,210
God willing, I'll
maybe be dead by then.

1476
01:08:19,210 --> 01:08:21,580
So it's know, if
you think about it,

1477
01:08:21,580 --> 01:08:23,863
if you have a five-year-old
kid or a grandkid,

1478
01:08:23,863 --> 01:08:25,630
they'll be married and
they'll have their own college

1479
01:08:25,630 --> 01:08:28,540
age kids in 40 years.

1480
01:08:28,540 --> 01:08:31,069
So it's not a temporary thing.

1481
01:08:31,069 --> 01:08:34,330
And secondly, I've never heard
staff or the city council

1482
01:08:34,330 --> 01:08:36,460
ever make a serious
statement or commitment

1483
01:08:36,460 --> 01:08:37,899
that the digital
Billboard would be

1484
01:08:37,899 --> 01:08:41,149
entirely removed while the
board and the framework.

1485
01:08:41,149 --> 01:08:42,529
At the end of the lease.

1486
01:08:42,529 --> 01:08:45,189
So any consideration
should presume

1487
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:47,290
that these digital billboards
will be a permanently

1488
01:08:47,290 --> 01:08:49,029
installed Visual blight.

1489
01:08:49,029 --> 01:08:51,979
So lastly, I don't
want to ever complain.

1490
01:08:51,979 --> 01:08:54,920
I want to bring a solution as
well what my thoughts were.

1491
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,439
So what would Kathy do?

1492
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:58,870
Obviously, I don't want any
more digital billboards,

1493
01:08:58,870 --> 01:09:01,270
but if I were forced to
make a decision right now,

1494
01:09:01,270 --> 01:09:03,370
if you were nailing
my foot to the floor,

1495
01:09:03,370 --> 01:09:05,090
I would pick option three.

1496
01:09:05,090 --> 01:09:08,810
Just one digital
Billboard down on 13th.

1497
01:09:08,810 --> 01:09:10,520
Opposite harmons
and would expand

1498
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,750
the exchange options to include
nonconforming billboards.

1499
01:09:13,750 --> 01:09:16,680
That aren't necessarily
next to the city center.

1500
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,950
I'd be very aggressive
about getting a better

1501
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:21,109
exchange ratio, whether that's.

1502
01:09:21,109 --> 01:09:23,420
Square footage or
the entire Billboard

1503
01:09:23,420 --> 01:09:26,189
face like was mentioned in
one of the other cities.

1504
01:09:26,189 --> 01:09:29,399
I would make sure that the
updated language is very clear.

1505
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:31,790
No more digital
billboards in the city

1506
01:09:31,790 --> 01:09:34,700
center so that we don't have
to go through this again.

1507
01:09:34,700 --> 01:09:35,640
Thank you.

1508
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:36,590
Thank you.

1509
01:09:36,590 --> 01:09:38,910
Didn't catch your name.

1510
01:09:38,910 --> 01:09:39,520
Thank you.

1511
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:44,729


1512
01:09:44,729 --> 01:09:46,630
Greetings My name is Jeff young.

1513
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:52,050
2401 South Foothill today
happens to be our sign

1514
01:09:52,050 --> 01:09:53,960
company's 104th birthday.

1515
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,330
Can you believe that?

1516
01:09:55,330 --> 01:09:56,180
104 years.

1517
01:09:56,180 --> 01:09:59,200
So my grandfather emigrated
from England in 1910,

1518
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,480
started the company
in Ogden, Utah.

1519
01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:02,920
Thank you for the
partnership we've

1520
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,190
enjoyed with Creek for
more than a century

1521
01:10:06,190 --> 01:10:10,810
and the Bill of
theater adebise is

1522
01:10:10,810 --> 01:10:12,640
one of our projects among many.

1523
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,470
I want to address a couple
of things on premise code.

1524
01:10:15,470 --> 01:10:18,560
First, we don't get many
requests for TVs in Windows.

1525
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,470
The glare, they're
not bright enough

1526
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:21,800
and the glare is horrible.

1527
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,490
So if you're setting a TV
back three feet inside,

1528
01:10:24,490 --> 01:10:26,180
you might be able to see
a little bit at night.

1529
01:10:26,180 --> 01:10:29,270
You can't see it during the day
and it's not really practical.

1530
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:31,780
So I would perhaps
suggest you remove that

1531
01:10:31,780 --> 01:10:34,390
from your list of anxieties.

1532
01:10:34,390 --> 01:10:36,490
We just don't see that
working very well.

1533
01:10:36,490 --> 01:10:38,120
We love pole covers.

1534
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:39,500
Great move.

1535
01:10:39,500 --> 01:10:42,940
A lot of cities that we work
with include this in their code

1536
01:10:42,940 --> 01:10:45,490
and it makes a big
difference as far as sign

1537
01:10:45,490 --> 01:10:46,670
companies are concerned.

1538
01:10:46,670 --> 01:10:49,430
When you ask for pole covers,
we know exactly what you mean.

1539
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:51,100
If you're asking if
you want to specify

1540
01:10:51,100 --> 01:10:54,530
masonry or some other element,
we're happy to do that too.

1541
01:10:54,530 --> 01:10:57,800
And it makes a big difference.

1542
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,640
We're actually fine
with the square footage.

1543
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,390
We appreciate you being so
thoughtful and considerate

1544
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:06,230
of these businesses who are
advertising what they do.

1545
01:11:06,230 --> 01:11:10,220
I want to address the light
temperature that Kelvin, Thanks

1546
01:11:10,220 --> 01:11:11,730
for the adjustment to 4,000.

1547
01:11:11,730 --> 01:11:15,030
There's a reason why these
lights are 6,500 Kelvin.

1548
01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:17,520
It's because you can see
the blue on the flag.

1549
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,880
You can see the Mill Creek
logo, you can see your sweater.

1550
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,820
When you go to 4000, you wash
everything from yellow to blue

1551
01:11:24,820 --> 01:11:25,650
goes away.

1552
01:11:25,650 --> 01:11:27,330
It turns autopsy gray.

1553
01:11:27,330 --> 01:11:28,440
It's horrible.

1554
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:30,710
And so in terms of
color rendition,

1555
01:11:30,710 --> 01:11:34,170
the Kelvin temperature is not
something we recommend at all.

1556
01:11:34,170 --> 01:11:35,750
I'm not sure where
that came from.

1557
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:39,710
We're big advocates of
brightness and hundreds

1558
01:11:39,710 --> 01:11:44,180
nits is I'm sorry to
say, it's a little crazy

1559
01:11:44,180 --> 01:11:47,340
because on page 10 on e,
it says illuminance level.

1560
01:11:47,340 --> 01:11:48,600
I know you don't have that read.

1561
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:49,470
So it is draft.

1562
01:11:49,470 --> 01:11:51,020
I don't know if
that's new or old,

1563
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:53,300
but the following
page on page 11,

1564
01:11:53,300 --> 01:11:57,420
you have 0.2 candles
above ambient lighting.

1565
01:11:57,420 --> 01:12:00,080
That is what hundreds
and hundreds of cities

1566
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:01,800
have adopted successfully.

1567
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,870
And just 0.2 candles
above ambient light

1568
01:12:05,870 --> 01:12:09,420
is hardly brighter than
what you see around it.

1569
01:12:09,420 --> 01:12:14,000
And those light levels are
very, very conservative.

1570
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:15,750
To give you a sense,
going back to 100

1571
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:18,600
and it's not many
people have a nit gun.

1572
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:19,410
We own one.

1573
01:12:19,410 --> 01:12:20,290
We never use it.

1574
01:12:20,290 --> 01:12:21,437
It sits in a cabinet.

1575
01:12:21,437 --> 01:12:22,470
I don't know if you've got one.

1576
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:24,110
Francis, do you have a net gun?

1577
01:12:24,110 --> 01:12:25,620
No, but I have a consultant.

1578
01:12:25,620 --> 01:12:26,400
Yeah OK.

1579
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:27,770
Well, someone's
got one somewhere.

1580
01:12:27,770 --> 01:12:28,890
That's the problem.

1581
01:12:28,890 --> 01:12:31,320
The photo meter that
you use is really cheap.

1582
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:32,610
And it's easy to use.

1583
01:12:32,610 --> 01:12:35,870
I pointed my nit gun
at my lights on my car,

1584
01:12:35,870 --> 01:12:39,330
and it hit 10,000 and
then it went off to error.

1585
01:12:39,330 --> 01:12:40,380
Then I turned at high beams.

1586
01:12:40,380 --> 01:12:41,790
And I couldn't even
get it to register.

1587
01:12:41,790 --> 01:12:45,890
To give you a sense how
bright headlights are on cars,

1588
01:12:45,890 --> 01:12:49,250
it's the NIT gun
doesn't even work.

1589
01:12:49,250 --> 01:12:53,340
So 100 nits is
hardly bright at all.

1590
01:12:53,340 --> 01:12:56,510
And I recommend that
the city consider

1591
01:12:56,510 --> 01:13:00,870
just deleting E and keeping
f the 0.2 foot candles.

1592
01:13:00,870 --> 01:13:04,460
So I'd mention that for
you to consider in terms

1593
01:13:04,460 --> 01:13:07,670
of electronics on pole signs,
let me just mention there's

1594
01:13:07,670 --> 01:13:10,790
a series we're advocates of
having electronics on poles

1595
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:12,090
for a series of reasons.

1596
01:13:12,090 --> 01:13:13,620
First off, customers
want the visibility

1597
01:13:13,620 --> 01:13:14,700
of their advertising.

1598
01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:16,310
We understand that.

1599
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:18,290
When the sign goes
on the ground.

1600
01:13:18,290 --> 01:13:20,530
Vandalism sprinklers.

1601
01:13:20,530 --> 01:13:22,380
Radiant heat from the ground.

1602
01:13:22,380 --> 01:13:25,500
Snow from snow plows.

1603
01:13:25,500 --> 01:13:27,310
It's the signs.

1604
01:13:27,310 --> 01:13:30,370
Ends up looking horrible
in a short amount of time.

1605
01:13:30,370 --> 01:13:33,150
They're very hard to
maintain and it just

1606
01:13:33,150 --> 01:13:36,510
puts all sorts of complications
in the way of us keeping

1607
01:13:36,510 --> 01:13:40,260
the signs, looking well and
looking good over a long period

1608
01:13:40,260 --> 01:13:40,990
of time.

1609
01:13:40,990 --> 01:13:44,130
So you might guess
that I would say

1610
01:13:44,130 --> 01:13:46,590
that we would love
to continue to put

1611
01:13:46,590 --> 01:13:49,000
electronics on pole signs.

1612
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:53,400
If I may switch over to the
off premise side for a minute.

1613
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:54,520
And Nathan is here.

1614
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:55,660
Nathan is my nephew.

1615
01:13:55,660 --> 01:13:57,310
He's fourth generation
with the company.

1616
01:13:57,310 --> 01:13:58,680
I'm third.

1617
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,910
Mr young, will you be able to
summarize in about a minute?

1618
01:14:00,910 --> 01:14:01,540
We're coming.

1619
01:14:01,540 --> 01:14:05,830
I know I've taken way too much
time and I'll stop on page 16.

1620
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:09,870
You have one change to
the copy face in a 24 hour

1621
01:14:09,870 --> 01:14:12,460
period on digital billboards.

1622
01:14:12,460 --> 01:14:14,430
If I'm reading that correctly.

1623
01:14:14,430 --> 01:14:15,730
Is that what you intend to do?

1624
01:14:15,730 --> 01:14:17,560
Francis that's the existing.

1625
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:18,790
So it is existing.

1626
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:20,410
That's in the
existing requirement.

1627
01:14:20,410 --> 01:14:25,060
We're not making any changes to
the off premise or off premise

1628
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:27,850
section because we have to
notice that separately would

1629
01:14:27,850 --> 01:14:29,320
have received a separate
notice if we were

1630
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:30,890
making any substantive changes.

1631
01:14:30,890 --> 01:14:32,920
Yeah, I have not
seen 24 hour holds

1632
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,020
in all the meetings I've gone
to in the decades and decades.

1633
01:14:36,020 --> 01:14:40,360
So I wave a little red flag
on K on the 24 hour period,

1634
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:42,850
Virginia Tech
transportation established

1635
01:14:42,850 --> 01:14:45,760
the safety threshold
on distraction

1636
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:49,100
and drivers texting
is 4.6 seconds.

1637
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:52,090
Looking away from the road,
Virginia Tech says two seconds

1638
01:14:52,090 --> 01:14:53,890
is the safety threshold.

1639
01:14:53,890 --> 01:14:57,500
The federal study
commissioned to investigate.

1640
01:14:57,500 --> 01:14:59,860
I glances at signs
say number one,

1641
01:14:59,860 --> 01:15:02,660
eye glances at digital signs
happened twice as often.

1642
01:15:02,660 --> 01:15:05,290
People look at electronic
signs twice as often

1643
01:15:05,290 --> 01:15:08,900
and they glance no
more than 1.3 seconds.

1644
01:15:08,900 --> 01:15:10,590
Most of them were
less than 1 second.

1645
01:15:10,590 --> 01:15:11,890
So, yes, your
attention is drawn.

1646
01:15:11,890 --> 01:15:12,390
I know.

1647
01:15:12,390 --> 01:15:13,100
I'm done.

1648
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:15,350
Yeah, we let me have
if you want to have

1649
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:18,410
Nathan carry on from the
comments and I'll finish up.

1650
01:15:18,410 --> 01:15:20,950
Signs are not.

1651
01:15:20,950 --> 01:15:22,670
Unsafe signs are.

1652
01:15:22,670 --> 01:15:24,650
They're not causing
traffic accidents.

1653
01:15:24,650 --> 01:15:25,340
Thank you.

1654
01:15:25,340 --> 01:15:34,030


1655
01:15:34,030 --> 01:15:35,030
Yeah good evening.

1656
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:37,490
Thanks for the
opportunity, Francis.

1657
01:15:37,490 --> 01:15:38,060
Very well done.

1658
01:15:38,060 --> 01:15:39,260
Really appreciate
the energy, effort

1659
01:15:39,260 --> 01:15:41,980
you put into all of this.

1660
01:15:41,980 --> 01:15:45,100
First and foremost, I would
just say engage us, please,

1661
01:15:45,100 --> 01:15:47,770
as a member of the community,
I'm the demographic

1662
01:15:47,770 --> 01:15:49,330
that you want in your city.

1663
01:15:49,330 --> 01:15:50,320
Engage us.

1664
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:51,620
We know billboards.

1665
01:15:51,620 --> 01:15:54,910
So please, as you go
through these renditions,

1666
01:15:54,910 --> 01:15:55,940
reach out to us.

1667
01:15:55,940 --> 01:15:57,170
Reach out to Reagan.

1668
01:15:57,170 --> 01:15:58,330
We're here.

1669
01:15:58,330 --> 01:15:59,800
We're here to help.

1670
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:03,640
I drafted a letter today with
11 points talking predominantly

1671
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:09,520
about the sign code on the
off premise side, the touch

1672
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,030
on four of them quickly.

1673
01:16:11,030 --> 01:16:13,490
The first one is related
to the exchange program.

1674
01:16:13,490 --> 01:16:17,410
I look at your economics on that
and understand which companies

1675
01:16:17,410 --> 01:16:20,560
have the most to do any
exchanges in your city

1676
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:24,220
because that's going to create
a monopoly pretty quickly.

1677
01:16:24,220 --> 01:16:26,410
And from the
industry's perspective,

1678
01:16:26,410 --> 01:16:28,690
that's not favorable.

1679
01:16:28,690 --> 01:16:32,050
We want healthy
competition because it then

1680
01:16:32,050 --> 01:16:33,520
starts changing
rates and prices,

1681
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,280
which then business
owners, communities

1682
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,080
start to feel the impact of it.

1683
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,060
So that's something to consider.

1684
01:16:40,060 --> 01:16:42,670
Jeff mentioned the other
one on the sign change.

1685
01:16:42,670 --> 01:16:45,370
I've never seen that before.

1686
01:16:45,370 --> 01:16:48,340
I'm new to that one, so.

1687
01:16:48,340 --> 01:16:52,840
Our we run eight slots and they
change every eight seconds.

1688
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,180
That's industry standard for us.

1689
01:16:55,180 --> 01:16:57,550
The next one is
there was a provision

1690
01:16:57,550 --> 01:16:59,193
in there that was related to.

1691
01:16:59,193 --> 01:17:02,020


1692
01:17:02,020 --> 01:17:05,860
On 0 2 about providing
a demo permit in order

1693
01:17:05,860 --> 01:17:09,750
to get a new permit, and we had
to provide our lease agreement.

1694
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:12,253
No, please, please, please, no.

1695
01:17:12,253 --> 01:17:13,620
Because as soon as we
hand over our lease

1696
01:17:13,620 --> 01:17:15,030
agreement to the
city, it becomes

1697
01:17:15,030 --> 01:17:17,140
potentially public document.

1698
01:17:17,140 --> 01:17:19,720
And that's our
proprietary information.

1699
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,590
And we're healthy
competitors in this space.

1700
01:17:22,590 --> 01:17:25,620
And by doing that, it's
harmful to our business.

1701
01:17:25,620 --> 01:17:27,160
Other cities and municipalities.

1702
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:28,420
Udot does it great.

1703
01:17:28,420 --> 01:17:30,590
There's a form that we fill
out with the landowner.

1704
01:17:30,590 --> 01:17:34,860
It gets notarized, says, hey,
this is a real deal lease.

1705
01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:38,050
And then the next
was the lighting.

1706
01:17:38,050 --> 01:17:39,900
There was a request in
there for the lighting to be

1707
01:17:39,900 --> 01:17:41,970
downward instead of upward.

1708
01:17:41,970 --> 01:17:43,710
I think we need to
talk about technology

1709
01:17:43,710 --> 01:17:45,990
and what LEDs have
done to the industry,

1710
01:17:45,990 --> 01:17:48,660
both from the sign perspective
and the Billboard side.

1711
01:17:48,660 --> 01:17:52,140
So in summary, I would love
to sit down and have more

1712
01:17:52,140 --> 01:17:54,600
conversation to help
answer any questions

1713
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:56,980
you would have from billboards.

1714
01:17:56,980 --> 01:18:00,180
Valuations we are
a unified industry

1715
01:18:00,180 --> 01:18:04,170
and we love what we do because
it promotes small business

1716
01:18:04,170 --> 01:18:07,440
and that's at the core of what
makes communities like Creek

1717
01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:08,430
great.

1718
01:18:08,430 --> 01:18:10,530
And so Thank you for your time.

1719
01:18:10,530 --> 01:18:11,760
If you have
questions, you should

1720
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:12,840
have my information there.

1721
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,880
Look forward to
working with you.

1722
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:16,950
I didn't catch your name.

1723
01:18:16,950 --> 01:18:18,310
My name is Nathan young.

1724
01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:18,830
Thank you.

1725
01:18:18,830 --> 01:18:19,470
Thank you.

1726
01:18:19,470 --> 01:18:20,465
Thank you, Mr young.

1727
01:18:20,465 --> 01:18:23,600


1728
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,430
Let's take a little
break and I've

1729
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:28,070
got some comments to
read here that have

1730
01:18:28,070 --> 01:18:31,620
come through on email.

1731
01:18:31,620 --> 01:18:33,370
Some of these are lengthy.

1732
01:18:33,370 --> 01:18:36,690
And I do want to have
the comments comply

1733
01:18:36,690 --> 01:18:38,860
with our rough three minutes.

1734
01:18:38,860 --> 01:18:41,580
So I'm condensing.

1735
01:18:41,580 --> 01:18:43,320
Some of what the comments are.

1736
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:45,600
But at least you
I think you have

1737
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,130
the same emails that I have.

1738
01:18:48,130 --> 01:18:52,030
So you'll have the full
comment for the record.

1739
01:18:52,030 --> 01:18:55,610
I just finished the
proposals at 23 016.

1740
01:18:55,610 --> 01:18:58,510
I have to say, and this is also
from Jake Hathaway in the Mount

1741
01:18:58,510 --> 01:19:00,130
Airy neighborhood,
I have to say I'm

1742
01:19:00,130 --> 01:19:02,110
disappointed that we
will still that we are

1743
01:19:02,110 --> 01:19:03,290
still discussing this topic.

1744
01:19:03,290 --> 01:19:05,440
Let me start with
this calling them

1745
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:07,510
district Stines is disgraceful.

1746
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:10,780
Changing the words we use
for electronic or electric

1747
01:19:10,780 --> 01:19:13,370
seems like a deliberate
way to deceive the public.

1748
01:19:13,370 --> 01:19:15,320
Let's be honest with the
citizens of Mill Creek.

1749
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,520
These are digital billboards.

1750
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,500
Well, you've proposed
some innocuous changes

1751
01:19:19,500 --> 01:19:20,440
to the sign ordinance.

1752
01:19:20,440 --> 01:19:22,950
It is clear that the primary
objective of these changes

1753
01:19:22,950 --> 01:19:24,620
is to allow more digital signs.

1754
01:19:24,620 --> 01:19:26,730
I don't know why we
must keep telling you

1755
01:19:26,730 --> 01:19:28,140
that the citizens
of Mill Creek don't

1756
01:19:28,140 --> 01:19:30,160
want additional billboards.

1757
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:31,280
We don't want the first one.

1758
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:32,860
We certainly don't want more.

1759
01:19:32,860 --> 01:19:35,570
The planning commission should
be helping solve real problems.

1760
01:19:35,570 --> 01:19:37,810
The city has not trying to
facilitate a wealthy sign

1761
01:19:37,810 --> 01:19:40,660
company to have more rights
against the expressed desires

1762
01:19:40,660 --> 01:19:41,920
of its citizens.

1763
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,780
The planning commission
has outlined four options.

1764
01:19:44,780 --> 01:19:46,780
Not surprisingly, three of
them increase the number

1765
01:19:46,780 --> 01:19:48,430
of digital signs in the city.

1766
01:19:48,430 --> 01:19:49,850
Those are wrong choices.

1767
01:19:49,850 --> 01:19:52,580
The citizens of Creek
have spoken up about this.

1768
01:19:52,580 --> 01:19:54,110
There's got to be other options.

1769
01:19:54,110 --> 01:19:57,040
I would rather live
in, with what we have

1770
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:58,790
than add more digital signs.

1771
01:19:58,790 --> 01:20:00,580
I'm guessing the city
council and others

1772
01:20:00,580 --> 01:20:03,730
are getting a lot of pressure
from the sign company on this.

1773
01:20:03,730 --> 01:20:05,890
My suggestion is rather
than change our code

1774
01:20:05,890 --> 01:20:09,130
to help the sign company, we
change our codes to protect

1775
01:20:09,130 --> 01:20:10,850
the citizens of the city.

1776
01:20:10,850 --> 01:20:13,060
After all, this is
our city, not theirs.

1777
01:20:13,060 --> 01:20:15,760
They already have a
history of legal action

1778
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:16,970
against cities and towns.

1779
01:20:16,970 --> 01:20:21,250
We should protect our city
from that in our own codes

1780
01:20:21,250 --> 01:20:24,490
and ordinances and restrict
digital billboards to just

1781
01:20:24,490 --> 01:20:25,695
the one we already have.

1782
01:20:25,695 --> 01:20:31,790


1783
01:20:31,790 --> 01:20:36,890
These comments are
from Tom Stevens.

1784
01:20:36,890 --> 01:20:39,620
The city's plan for two
more digital billboards

1785
01:20:39,620 --> 01:20:42,180
in the city center is troubling
for a number of reasons.

1786
01:20:42,180 --> 01:20:45,200
One, the city continues to
advance a false equivalency

1787
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:49,310
narrative that digital
and static billboards are

1788
01:20:49,310 --> 01:20:51,770
more similar than they
are different in terms

1789
01:20:51,770 --> 01:20:54,110
of safety, risk, blight
and economic value

1790
01:20:54,110 --> 01:20:55,650
to Billboard owners.

1791
01:20:55,650 --> 01:20:57,530
In fact, each
digital Billboard has

1792
01:20:57,530 --> 01:21:00,500
a safety risk, as evidenced
by credible studies

1793
01:21:00,500 --> 01:21:01,620
far more lucrative.

1794
01:21:01,620 --> 01:21:03,260
Two Billboard the
Billboard owner,

1795
01:21:03,260 --> 01:21:05,930
as evidenced by the Billboard
industry's own claims

1796
01:21:05,930 --> 01:21:08,430
and represent far more blight.

1797
01:21:08,430 --> 01:21:10,490
And due to their design,
color, images, brightness

1798
01:21:10,490 --> 01:21:13,310
and pulsating screen
changes changes every 8

1799
01:21:13,310 --> 01:21:15,280
seconds to the city appears.

1800
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:16,640
I'm willing to
accept the evidence

1801
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:18,650
that digital
billboards represent

1802
01:21:18,650 --> 01:21:22,190
an unacceptable safety hazard,
as evidenced by its continuing

1803
01:21:22,190 --> 01:21:24,620
effort to gain a
positive recommendation

1804
01:21:24,620 --> 01:21:26,940
for its digital Billboard plan.

1805
01:21:26,940 --> 01:21:31,640
This action exposures the city
to future litigation arising

1806
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:33,530
from accidents in the
immediate vicinity

1807
01:21:33,530 --> 01:21:35,780
of its digital billboards.

1808
01:21:35,780 --> 01:21:39,440
Three, the city asserts that
exchanging static billboards

1809
01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:41,630
for digital billboards
will reduce the number

1810
01:21:41,630 --> 01:21:43,290
of billboards in Mill Creek.

1811
01:21:43,290 --> 01:21:45,710
This is correct, but
only on the margin

1812
01:21:45,710 --> 01:21:48,210
and at the and at
a very high price.

1813
01:21:48,210 --> 01:21:50,390
The city is proposing that
for each digital Billboard

1814
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:52,100
face installed, three
static Billboard

1815
01:21:52,100 --> 01:21:53,820
faces will be removed.

1816
01:21:53,820 --> 01:21:56,630
For the sake of discussion,
let's say each of the existing

1817
01:21:56,630 --> 01:22:00,470
51 billboards in Mill Creek
represent 600ft of sign face

1818
01:22:00,470 --> 01:22:04,010
double sided, which
adds up to 30,600in

1819
01:22:04,010 --> 01:22:07,910
aggregate square footage for the
entire inventory of billboards.

1820
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:09,590
Getting rid of three
static billboards,

1821
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:13,400
1,800 square feet, adding
one digital billboard,

1822
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,460
600ft for a net reduction
of 1,200 square feet being

1823
01:22:16,460 --> 01:22:19,490
on average, two
of the existing 51

1824
01:22:19,490 --> 01:22:21,920
static billboards,
a 4% reduction

1825
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:26,770
in the current aggregate
of 30,600 square foot.

1826
01:22:26,770 --> 01:22:30,640
As at the proposed
sign phase trade ratio,

1827
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:34,030
Creek will end up with 25
digital Billboard faces, which,

1828
01:22:34,030 --> 01:22:36,970
as bad as that is, is
an unlikely outcome

1829
01:22:36,970 --> 01:22:38,740
as the Billboard
owners will probably

1830
01:22:38,740 --> 01:22:41,080
be interested in
trading out a minority

1831
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:42,970
of their static billboards,
keeping the balance

1832
01:22:42,970 --> 01:22:45,440
and leaving Creek worse off.

1833
01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:47,870
For the reasons above
and the others, and that

1834
01:22:47,870 --> 01:22:49,460
others will express a negative.

1835
01:22:49,460 --> 01:22:51,140
Recommendation to
the city council

1836
01:22:51,140 --> 01:22:52,555
is the best course of action.

1837
01:22:52,555 --> 01:23:03,730


1838
01:23:03,730 --> 01:23:06,020
And this is from Janine Terrill.

1839
01:23:06,020 --> 01:23:06,520
Oh, no.

1840
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,750
This is from Dr. Jan Schwartz.

1841
01:23:08,750 --> 01:23:09,570
I'll do that one first.

1842
01:23:09,570 --> 01:23:12,230


1843
01:23:12,230 --> 01:23:14,720
I am a 30 plus year resident
of the Salt Lake valley,

1844
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:16,190
and like many of
you, I have lived

1845
01:23:16,190 --> 01:23:18,800
in various parts of the
Valley throughout those years.

1846
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,230
A typical week I spend
time in South salt lake,

1847
01:23:21,230 --> 01:23:24,650
Murray millcreek, Murray Murray
again, guess Riverton and West

1848
01:23:24,650 --> 01:23:27,230
Jordan as I go about accessing
doctor's appointments,

1849
01:23:27,230 --> 01:23:29,570
my home, my office,
shopping and more.

1850
01:23:29,570 --> 01:23:31,010
In fact, I drive-through
Creek to get

1851
01:23:31,010 --> 01:23:32,580
from home to work each day.

1852
01:23:32,580 --> 01:23:34,610
I'm strongly opposed
to the addition

1853
01:23:34,610 --> 01:23:36,380
of electronic billboards
in Millcreek that

1854
01:23:36,380 --> 01:23:37,950
is being discussed tonight.

1855
01:23:37,950 --> 01:23:40,010
Studies have shown that
electronic billboards are

1856
01:23:40,010 --> 01:23:42,260
more distracting to drivers.

1857
01:23:42,260 --> 01:23:45,140
I've listed one such study
below and tagged the source

1858
01:23:45,140 --> 01:23:46,820
and Creek is
already experiencing

1859
01:23:46,820 --> 01:23:49,310
increased traffic and the
hazards that come with it.

1860
01:23:49,310 --> 01:23:51,860
While there may be a
financial benefit to the city,

1861
01:23:51,860 --> 01:23:54,230
the potential cost of injury
to people and property

1862
01:23:54,230 --> 01:23:55,770
cannot be overlooked.

1863
01:23:55,770 --> 01:23:58,340
I hope that the council will
reconsider the idea of adding

1864
01:23:58,340 --> 01:23:59,790
more digital billboards.

1865
01:23:59,790 --> 01:24:01,280
Maintaining the
safety of residents

1866
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:02,630
should be the priority.

1867
01:24:02,630 --> 01:24:04,690
Dr. Jean Schwartz.

1868
01:24:04,690 --> 01:24:06,930
Then there's a couple
others on this page.

1869
01:24:06,930 --> 01:24:08,160
I understand it.

1870
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:10,260
This is from Brian workman.

1871
01:24:10,260 --> 01:24:12,540
As a resident of Mill
Creek for over 20 years,

1872
01:24:12,540 --> 01:24:15,180
I oppose the addition of
more digital billboards.

1873
01:24:15,180 --> 01:24:16,470
That's one of the
things that I love

1874
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:18,040
about the area of Mill Creek.

1875
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,100
It's quiet and there's
less obnoxious advertising.

1876
01:24:21,100 --> 01:24:22,510
There's a vote to be taken.

1877
01:24:22,510 --> 01:24:24,580
I vote against
additional billboards.

1878
01:24:24,580 --> 01:24:26,560
Please take this into
account for the record.

1879
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,720
Sincerely, Ryan workman.

1880
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,880
The last one is
from Janine Terrill.

1881
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,350
I ran opposed to these in 2021.

1882
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:36,360
I know they installed one and
are now trying to install more.

1883
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,440
I'm just trying to
keep it to the one.

1884
01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:40,220
I feel like these
are a real nuisance.

1885
01:24:40,220 --> 01:24:41,720
These electronic billboards.

1886
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:42,970
Billboard jail.

1887
01:24:42,970 --> 01:24:45,280
I'm not sure I can make it
to the city council meeting,

1888
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:47,900
but I would very much like to
be included in the narrative.

1889
01:24:47,900 --> 01:24:49,670
I have a daughter
that's on the spectrum.

1890
01:24:49,670 --> 01:24:51,660
And these kind of
billboards make her seizure.

1891
01:24:51,660 --> 01:24:55,060


1892
01:24:55,060 --> 01:24:56,210
Thank you, Victoria.

1893
01:24:56,210 --> 01:24:57,660
Yeah, just check that off.

1894
01:24:57,660 --> 01:25:04,540
Um, this comment is from Gary
Blake, 1189 East iris lane.

1895
01:25:04,540 --> 01:25:05,750
A comment on billboards.

1896
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:10,120
The negative effect upon traffic
safety of any type of Billboard

1897
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:11,530
is so obvious.

1898
01:25:11,530 --> 01:25:13,210
Any Billboard company
obviously believes

1899
01:25:13,210 --> 01:25:15,370
and intends that drivers
will look at their Billboard.

1900
01:25:15,370 --> 01:25:17,500
Otherwise the Billboard
company would have nothing

1901
01:25:17,500 --> 01:25:19,040
to sell to its customers.

1902
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:21,490
The Billboard company
obviously knows

1903
01:25:21,490 --> 01:25:23,260
this implicitly
and will therefore

1904
01:25:23,260 --> 01:25:25,100
make its displays attractive.

1905
01:25:25,100 --> 01:25:27,370
Therefore, a degree
of driver distraction

1906
01:25:27,370 --> 01:25:29,620
is a natural
result. Furthermore,

1907
01:25:29,620 --> 01:25:31,840
the rapid recycling
of bright colored

1908
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,730
digital Billboard
messages results in even

1909
01:25:33,730 --> 01:25:35,410
more driver distraction.

1910
01:25:35,410 --> 01:25:38,290
Obviously we should not want to
make traffic on our city roads

1911
01:25:38,290 --> 01:25:41,560
more unsafe by increasing
the distraction distraction

1912
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:42,670
of our drivers.

1913
01:25:42,670 --> 01:25:45,310
Therefore, instead of wanting
more billboards, especially

1914
01:25:45,310 --> 01:25:47,290
digital ones, we
obviously should

1915
01:25:47,290 --> 01:25:49,245
want fewer rather than more.

1916
01:25:49,245 --> 01:25:52,900


1917
01:25:52,900 --> 01:25:54,940
This is a.

1918
01:25:54,940 --> 01:25:57,920
Comment from Brent crane.

1919
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:05,020
Ukraine apologies.

1920
01:26:05,020 --> 01:26:06,845
I'm with border.

1921
01:26:06,845 --> 01:26:11,520


1922
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:12,425
Yeah, you did that one.

1923
01:26:12,425 --> 01:26:16,480


1924
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:17,485
It seemed like his first.

1925
01:26:17,485 --> 01:26:20,380


1926
01:26:20,380 --> 01:26:20,880
No BLEEP.

1927
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,710
Here we go.

1928
01:26:23,710 --> 01:26:32,540
Of he's opposed to.

1929
01:26:32,540 --> 01:26:36,310
The billboards said they.

1930
01:26:36,310 --> 01:26:39,520
Their blight to one census.

1931
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,790
And there he's being
constantly barraged by.

1932
01:26:43,790 --> 01:26:45,930
Advertising I don't want to
see the boards that are hawked.

1933
01:26:45,930 --> 01:26:47,600
Beauty makeovers and
erectile dysfunction

1934
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:49,140
are especially offensive.

1935
01:26:49,140 --> 01:26:51,110
One of the reasons I love
traveling, especially

1936
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:52,370
to other countries,
is their lack

1937
01:26:52,370 --> 01:26:54,020
of billboards and
other advertisements

1938
01:26:54,020 --> 01:26:56,040
that are unwanted
by the population.

1939
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,670
I see the landscape and
enjoy people and sights and

1940
01:26:58,670 --> 01:27:01,170
the natural beauty of the area.

1941
01:27:01,170 --> 01:27:03,170
This is particularly
true for the Salt Lake

1942
01:27:03,170 --> 01:27:05,540
Valley and suburbs nestled
beneath the grandeur

1943
01:27:05,540 --> 01:27:07,110
of the Wasatch Front.

1944
01:27:07,110 --> 01:27:08,930
I realized that the
ship sailed long ago,

1945
01:27:08,930 --> 01:27:12,030
but we must learn to live with
the visual and cultural damage.

1946
01:27:12,030 --> 01:27:13,700
However, I believe it's
not too late to stop

1947
01:27:13,700 --> 01:27:16,090
spoiling the beautiful
city of Mill Creek.

1948
01:27:16,090 --> 01:27:17,900
When I saw the current
digital sign at City center,

1949
01:27:17,900 --> 01:27:21,740
my first thought was of Las
Vegas, downtown Los Angeles

1950
01:27:21,740 --> 01:27:24,890
or times square, new York,
with their garish digital signs

1951
01:27:24,890 --> 01:27:25,800
and light shows.

1952
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:27,590
Please may the council
be better than that.

1953
01:27:27,590 --> 01:27:29,360
Let us turn Mill Creek
into a kinder and gentler

1954
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:31,350
city as boulder, Colorado.

1955
01:27:31,350 --> 01:27:32,170
Stowe, Vermont.

1956
01:27:32,170 --> 01:27:33,480
Carmel, California.

1957
01:27:33,480 --> 01:27:35,450
Please strive to be
a city that values

1958
01:27:35,450 --> 01:27:39,500
peace and tranquility over
blatant light show advertising.

1959
01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:41,360
At the very least, please
press the pause button

1960
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,400
for a couple of years and
then reevaluate the need

1961
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:46,570
for effects of digital signs.

1962
01:27:46,570 --> 01:27:48,510
Once they are up, they will
never come down and more

1963
01:27:48,510 --> 01:27:49,860
will be added.

1964
01:27:49,860 --> 01:27:52,410
I understand that digital signs
are also a driver safety issue,

1965
01:27:52,410 --> 01:27:55,050
but I'll leave that
to issues, that issue

1966
01:27:55,050 --> 01:27:57,070
to others that are
more knowledgeable.

1967
01:27:57,070 --> 01:27:59,360
And that's from Brent crane.

1968
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:04,700


1969
01:28:04,700 --> 01:28:08,190
I'll summarize because
it was a long letter.

1970
01:28:08,190 --> 01:28:14,080
This is from the president of
scenic America, mark Falzone.

1971
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:16,420
We understand that
the town of Mill Creek

1972
01:28:16,420 --> 01:28:18,730
is currently considering a
proposal that will bring added

1973
01:28:18,730 --> 01:28:21,550
visual pollution in the
form of digital billboards

1974
01:28:21,550 --> 01:28:24,790
three within a single city
block to the community.

1975
01:28:24,790 --> 01:28:26,560
We have read through the
details of the proposal,

1976
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:28,540
including the history
that is setting the stage

1977
01:28:28,540 --> 01:28:30,220
for this potential project.

1978
01:28:30,220 --> 01:28:32,530
We would like to offer
the Mill Creek planning

1979
01:28:32,530 --> 01:28:34,180
commission the following
scientific facts

1980
01:28:34,180 --> 01:28:36,820
about outdoor advertising.

1981
01:28:36,820 --> 01:28:41,290
The first point is about
driver pedestrian safety,

1982
01:28:41,290 --> 01:28:48,980
and it does go into some
quite a bit of studies.

1983
01:28:48,980 --> 01:28:51,350
But summarize.

1984
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:54,740
27 studies found that average
outdoor advertisings were

1985
01:28:54,740 --> 01:28:57,350
designed specifically to
grab drivers attention away

1986
01:28:57,350 --> 01:28:59,750
from the roadway.

1987
01:28:59,750 --> 01:29:02,360
Talks about when there's
inclement weather, higher

1988
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:04,940
speeds, traffic
changes that they

1989
01:29:04,940 --> 01:29:07,680
are distractions and not safe.

1990
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:11,600
The second is
environmental degradation.

1991
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:13,040
Billboards require
large consumption

1992
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:17,770
materials as well as the
removal of trees and vegetation.

1993
01:29:17,770 --> 01:29:18,530
Talks about.

1994
01:29:18,530 --> 01:29:21,860
The illuminated Billboard
says it can consume over 7,000

1995
01:29:21,860 --> 01:29:24,850
kilowatt hours annually
in a single board,

1996
01:29:24,850 --> 01:29:29,320
can consume nearly 163,000
kilowatt hours annually.

1997
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:33,160
For comparison, an
average home in the US

1998
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:35,730
is 11,000 kilowatt hours.

1999
01:29:35,730 --> 01:29:39,790
Led signs also contribute to
high levels of light pollution.

2000
01:29:39,790 --> 01:29:42,070
Fewer billboards
leads to a reduction

2001
01:29:42,070 --> 01:29:45,310
in resource consumption,
waste, pollution and the energy

2002
01:29:45,310 --> 01:29:46,690
for maintenance.

2003
01:29:46,690 --> 01:29:48,500
The last is.

2004
01:29:48,500 --> 01:29:53,450
Guess he's got for social
economic implications.

2005
01:29:53,450 --> 01:29:55,460
Talks about the
contribute to maintenance

2006
01:29:55,460 --> 01:29:58,353
costs, decrease property
values, loss of tourism revenue.

2007
01:29:58,353 --> 01:30:03,160


2008
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:04,750
Cities may also incur
costs associated

2009
01:30:04,750 --> 01:30:08,980
with regulating the placement
and maintenance of billboards.

2010
01:30:08,980 --> 01:30:11,440
It goes on to some stuff about
zoning and signing ordinances,

2011
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:13,810
which I don't think
really speaks to what

2012
01:30:13,810 --> 01:30:15,700
this application is about.

2013
01:30:15,700 --> 01:30:16,730
I'll skip that part.

2014
01:30:16,730 --> 01:30:18,870
And then.

2015
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:20,080
Athletics and
community character.

2016
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,200
One of the most important
apparent impacts

2017
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:23,550
that billboards
have on communities

2018
01:30:23,550 --> 01:30:26,370
is the immediate decline of the
visual appeal of billboards.

2019
01:30:26,370 --> 01:30:28,470
Often large and imposing
can dominate the landscape

2020
01:30:28,470 --> 01:30:31,870
and distract from the natural
beauty of the surroundings.

2021
01:30:31,870 --> 01:30:34,770


2022
01:30:34,770 --> 01:30:40,350
So he.

2023
01:30:40,350 --> 01:30:42,360
The one.

2024
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:44,110
This is a different
point we haven't heard.

2025
01:30:44,110 --> 01:30:45,900
But furthermore, scenic
America is strongly

2026
01:30:45,900 --> 01:30:47,943
concerned about the
ways in which the town

2027
01:30:47,943 --> 01:30:49,710
leadership allowed for the
installation of billboards

2028
01:30:49,710 --> 01:30:50,530
in the first place.

2029
01:30:50,530 --> 01:30:53,100
The rewriting of the sign code
to remove off premise signs

2030
01:30:53,100 --> 01:30:55,890
and to allow for district signs.

2031
01:30:55,890 --> 01:30:57,630
And the concerning
relationship between the mayor

2032
01:30:57,630 --> 01:31:01,260
and his wife to Reagan
outdoors do not reflect

2033
01:31:01,260 --> 01:31:02,400
well on the town leadership.

2034
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:04,350
These are tactics
that raise red flags

2035
01:31:04,350 --> 01:31:07,260
and are more likely to be seen
in communities where corruption

2036
01:31:07,260 --> 01:31:10,830
is rampant and certainly not
to be expected in a state

2037
01:31:10,830 --> 01:31:12,300
as highly regulated as Utah.

2038
01:31:12,300 --> 01:31:14,400
It is for these reasons that we
implore the planning commission

2039
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,010
to carefully consider
the implications that

2040
01:31:17,010 --> 01:31:18,420
added outdoor
advertising will have

2041
01:31:18,420 --> 01:31:20,110
on your beautiful community.

2042
01:31:20,110 --> 01:31:26,730


2043
01:31:26,730 --> 01:31:29,470
We go back to.

2044
01:31:29,470 --> 01:31:32,420
Audience you're the last
one if you'd want to.

2045
01:31:32,420 --> 01:31:35,010


2046
01:31:35,010 --> 01:31:39,500
Oh oh, Yeah.

2047
01:31:39,500 --> 01:31:43,990
I didn't know I have one from
Susan that just came through.

2048
01:31:43,990 --> 01:31:44,490
I'm sorry.

2049
01:31:44,490 --> 01:31:45,357
I'm glad you're here, too.

2050
01:31:45,357 --> 01:31:46,110
Oh, it's OK.

2051
01:31:46,110 --> 01:31:48,540
Yeah my name is Mitchell Weiss.

2052
01:31:48,540 --> 01:31:52,040
I live at 3610 South
Caroline Street.

2053
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:53,695
And I'll just read this email.

2054
01:31:53,695 --> 01:31:56,230


2055
01:31:56,230 --> 01:32:00,040
As a professional advertiser and
marketing director of over 30

2056
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:04,690
years, I can attest to the
inefficacy of Billboard

2057
01:32:04,690 --> 01:32:07,990
advertising, their limited
audience targeting,

2058
01:32:07,990 --> 01:32:10,330
lack of interaction
and attribution,

2059
01:32:10,330 --> 01:32:12,880
short exposure
time are just a few

2060
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:15,640
of the parallel perils
that have all but

2061
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,700
decimated the outdoor
advertising industry.

2062
01:32:18,700 --> 01:32:21,520
This is why the outdoor
advertising industry cannot

2063
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:24,310
sustain itself without
government partnerships

2064
01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:29,020
and lobbying that produce
ironclad 100 plus year leases,

2065
01:32:29,020 --> 01:32:32,390
provisions and other guarantees
through state legislation.

2066
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:35,230
Fans of the free market
would certainly exclaim, let

2067
01:32:35,230 --> 01:32:38,220
the market decide their fate.

2068
01:32:38,220 --> 01:32:39,900
The outdoor
advertising industry is

2069
01:32:39,900 --> 01:32:42,480
desperately trying to
stay relevant by moving

2070
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:44,290
to more digital formats.

2071
01:32:44,290 --> 01:32:47,400
But I would assert that this
strategy is merely a better

2072
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,910
profit model for them, selling
multiple advertisements

2073
01:32:50,910 --> 01:32:53,460
on a single Billboard
as it does not

2074
01:32:53,460 --> 01:32:57,660
solve the above mentioned perils
of their advertising services.

2075
01:32:57,660 --> 01:33:00,390
I have a hard time believing
that any corporation

2076
01:33:00,390 --> 01:33:05,620
would trade down assets without
guaranteeing itself a windfall.

2077
01:33:05,620 --> 01:33:10,090
Our city's motto, connected by
nature, is in direct opposition

2078
01:33:10,090 --> 01:33:14,440
to our city administration's
penchant for digital billboards

2079
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:16,480
these past few years.

2080
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:20,050
When I consult organizations
regarding their brand stories,

2081
01:33:20,050 --> 01:33:23,110
I cannot stress enough that each
employee of that organization

2082
01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:25,360
has the opportunity
to be a brand

2083
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:29,510
ambassador by exuding their
brand message and essence.

2084
01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:33,340
Doing so can create a lifestyle
and an ecosystem that attracts

2085
01:33:33,340 --> 01:33:35,680
their targeted
audience, bringing them

2086
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:38,200
into their organization's
story, creating

2087
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:41,080
fervent and devoted buy in.

2088
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:46,250
I have heard of no such buy in
favor of digital billboards.

2089
01:33:46,250 --> 01:33:49,040
Now the boring stuff safety.

2090
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:51,620
There are many studies
showing the potential hazards

2091
01:33:51,620 --> 01:33:53,700
of digital roadside billboards.

2092
01:33:53,700 --> 01:33:56,330
Here's one from the National
Center of transportation

2093
01:33:56,330 --> 01:34:00,080
systems, productivity
and management in 2015,

2094
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:04,190
showing that 23% of crashes
and near crashes that occur

2095
01:34:04,190 --> 01:34:08,240
in Metropolitan environments
are attributable to eyes

2096
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:11,790
off the forward roadway
greater than 2 seconds.

2097
01:34:11,790 --> 01:34:16,250
Nearly 80% of the crashes
and 65% of the near crashes

2098
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:19,910
were caused by distractions
that made the driver look

2099
01:34:19,910 --> 01:34:23,470
away for up to three seconds.

2100
01:34:23,470 --> 01:34:26,080
Of course, there are
contradictory studies.

2101
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:28,660
We just mentioned
one by the Virginia

2102
01:34:28,660 --> 01:34:32,180
Tech transportation institute,
which was made in 2004.

2103
01:34:32,180 --> 01:34:35,660
They found that
digital billboards.

2104
01:34:35,660 --> 01:34:39,860
Our safety neutral because they
found that the typical glance

2105
01:34:39,860 --> 01:34:41,780
in the direction of
a digital Billboard

2106
01:34:41,780 --> 01:34:44,530
was less than 1 second.

2107
01:34:44,530 --> 01:34:46,270
If this is the
case, we have come

2108
01:34:46,270 --> 01:34:52,000
full circle to the inefficacy
of outdoor digital advertising.

2109
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,530
My proposal is sorry.

2110
01:34:54,530 --> 01:34:57,070
My proposal is that we let the
static billboards stand where

2111
01:34:57,070 --> 01:34:59,710
they are, where they
have become ubiquitous,

2112
01:34:59,710 --> 01:35:01,820
irrelevant, and invisible.

2113
01:35:01,820 --> 01:35:04,000
Maybe this could give
outdoor advertising

2114
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:05,860
the incentive to
become connected

2115
01:35:05,860 --> 01:35:08,210
by nature to Creek city.

2116
01:35:08,210 --> 01:35:09,140
Thank you.

2117
01:35:09,140 --> 01:35:11,780
Thank you.

2118
01:35:11,780 --> 01:35:12,310
This year.

2119
01:35:12,310 --> 01:35:14,760
I've got two more.

2120
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:18,750
This is from MJ Merkley.

2121
01:35:18,750 --> 01:35:20,850
Mark Lee.

2122
01:35:20,850 --> 01:35:23,500
I implore you to seriously
reconsider the decision.

2123
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:25,530
Due to significant
safety hazards,

2124
01:35:25,530 --> 01:35:27,480
these billboards pose
digital billboards

2125
01:35:27,480 --> 01:35:29,880
while visually intrusive and
unsightly present far more

2126
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:32,230
pressing concern in
terms of public safety.

2127
01:35:32,230 --> 01:35:34,710
The bright flashing lights and
constantly changing messages

2128
01:35:34,710 --> 01:35:37,350
serve as an unnecessary
distraction distraction

2129
01:35:37,350 --> 01:35:39,540
to drivers potentially
leading to accidents

2130
01:35:39,540 --> 01:35:41,250
and endangering
lives on our roads.

2131
01:35:41,250 --> 01:35:44,160
Studies have consistently
shown that such distractions

2132
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:46,020
contribute to driver
fatigue, decreased

2133
01:35:46,020 --> 01:35:50,100
reaction times and an increased
likelihood of accidents.

2134
01:35:50,100 --> 01:35:52,320
Mill Creek prides
itself on being

2135
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:55,340
safe and a welcoming community
for all residents and visitors.

2136
01:35:55,340 --> 01:35:57,330
Introducing more
digital billboards

2137
01:35:57,330 --> 01:35:59,730
contradicts this commitment
and puts our citizens

2138
01:35:59,730 --> 01:36:01,390
at unnecessary risk.

2139
01:36:01,390 --> 01:36:03,480
Moreover, these
billboards detract

2140
01:36:03,480 --> 01:36:05,640
from the aesthetic appeal
of our neighborhoods

2141
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:07,110
and commercial
areas, diminishing

2142
01:36:07,110 --> 01:36:10,620
the overall quality of life for
those who call Mill Creek home.

2143
01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:13,650
As our elected representative
on the planning commission,

2144
01:36:13,650 --> 01:36:16,050
I urge you to take Swift
and decisive action

2145
01:36:16,050 --> 01:36:19,470
to prevent the installation or
expansion of digital billboards

2146
01:36:19,470 --> 01:36:20,260
in our city.

2147
01:36:20,260 --> 01:36:22,030
It is imperative
that we prioritize

2148
01:36:22,030 --> 01:36:25,430
the safety and well-being of
our community above all else.

2149
01:36:25,430 --> 01:36:28,120
I implore you to consider
the long term ramifications

2150
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,970
of allowing such structures
to proliferate, proliferate

2151
01:36:30,970 --> 01:36:33,220
in Mill Creek and
act in the best

2152
01:36:33,220 --> 01:36:34,700
interests of those you serve.

2153
01:36:34,700 --> 01:36:38,330
The safety of our
community depends on.

2154
01:36:38,330 --> 01:36:41,850
Your on our collective
action and responsibility.

2155
01:36:41,850 --> 01:36:44,560


2156
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:48,290
Hits this one here
from Chris Kaiser.

2157
01:36:48,290 --> 01:36:52,020
OK the last one is
from Chris Keyser.

2158
01:36:52,020 --> 01:36:57,810
KSR as a Mill Creek resident
and taxpayer, I am frustrated.

2159
01:36:57,810 --> 01:36:59,540
The planning
commission is yet again

2160
01:36:59,540 --> 01:37:03,840
trying to put more digital
billboards in the city center.

2161
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,770
Don't sell our city center
to the sign companies

2162
01:37:06,770 --> 01:37:11,180
on my daily commute when I
stop by the red light at 33rd

2163
01:37:11,180 --> 01:37:14,150
and see that billboard,
it disappoints me

2164
01:37:14,150 --> 01:37:16,490
in my elected
officials every time,

2165
01:37:16,490 --> 01:37:19,740
especially when there is a huge
picture of the mayor's face.

2166
01:37:19,740 --> 01:37:22,050
What a conflict of interest.

2167
01:37:22,050 --> 01:37:24,780
I don't think I personally
drive by it all the time

2168
01:37:24,780 --> 01:37:26,440
and I've never
seen his face, but.

2169
01:37:26,440 --> 01:37:29,530
OK Thank you there.

2170
01:37:29,530 --> 01:37:30,305
Thanks, Elise.

2171
01:37:30,305 --> 01:37:32,950


2172
01:37:32,950 --> 01:37:36,100
One just came through from.

2173
01:37:36,100 --> 01:37:38,000
I got one from scenic America.

2174
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,120
Scenic Yeah.

2175
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:42,030
I saw the one from
scenic America.

2176
01:37:42,030 --> 01:37:44,590
This is scenic to Utah.

2177
01:37:44,590 --> 01:37:48,140
This is from Kate.

2178
01:37:48,140 --> 01:37:50,600
it's scenic Utah.

2179
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,650
Yes and then the one I
heard read was from the I

2180
01:37:54,650 --> 01:37:59,270
think from the National
with scenic America.

2181
01:37:59,270 --> 01:38:00,680
Before I jump to
that one, there was I

2182
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:03,353
want to make sure I
get Susan b, Susan.

2183
01:38:03,353 --> 01:38:06,040


2184
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:06,980
Bolden.

2185
01:38:06,980 --> 01:38:11,650
Bowe N I live in your
neighbor, neighboring

2186
01:38:11,650 --> 01:38:12,757
city of South Salt Lake.

2187
01:38:12,757 --> 01:38:13,990
I'm writing to ask
you to please vote

2188
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:17,180
no on those horribly
distracting signs.

2189
01:38:17,180 --> 01:38:20,170
I do a lot of my shopping
near your city center,

2190
01:38:20,170 --> 01:38:23,840
and we have a few retail
spaces in my area.

2191
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,650
I am frequently at
harmons, La Frontera

2192
01:38:26,650 --> 01:38:30,940
and the brickyard shops, but I
reroute or go to other places

2193
01:38:30,940 --> 01:38:33,340
when those large too bright
ever changing and therefore

2194
01:38:33,340 --> 01:38:36,040
ever distracting signs
are there blocking

2195
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:39,150
my view of the mountains
and distracting me.

2196
01:38:39,150 --> 01:38:41,780
If you allow these signs,
I will shop elsewhere.

2197
01:38:41,780 --> 01:38:45,580


2198
01:38:45,580 --> 01:38:49,150
Francis, if you've got that
one from the public comment.

2199
01:38:49,150 --> 01:38:50,400
You want to do that one?

2200
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:54,310
Sure if it's long,
you can summarize.

2201
01:38:54,310 --> 01:38:55,570
I'm just scrolling
through it now.

2202
01:38:55,570 --> 01:38:56,070
It looks.

2203
01:38:56,070 --> 01:38:58,460
Yeah so scenic Utah.

2204
01:38:58,460 --> 01:38:58,960
This is.

2205
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:01,085
This is from Kate
kopischke from scenic Utah.

2206
01:39:01,085 --> 01:39:05,140


2207
01:39:05,140 --> 01:39:06,970
scenic Utah has been
following mill Creek's most

2208
01:39:06,970 --> 01:39:09,280
recent static digital
Billboard exchange proposal

2209
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:10,810
and responding to
requests for information

2210
01:39:10,810 --> 01:39:13,420
from residents concerned about
the impacts of more digital

2211
01:39:13,420 --> 01:39:15,020
signage in the new city center.

2212
01:39:15,020 --> 01:39:17,620
We provided comments about
the same issue in 2021,

2213
01:39:17,620 --> 01:39:20,290
when the city first disclosed
its negotiations with Reagan

2214
01:39:20,290 --> 01:39:23,043
outdoor advertising to
remove static billboards that

2215
01:39:23,043 --> 01:39:24,310
were preventing
completion of the Mill

2216
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:25,880
Creek common redevelopment.

2217
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:27,820
We opposed then and
opposed now digitizing

2218
01:39:27,820 --> 01:39:30,070
this attractive and pedestrian
friendly new space, which

2219
01:39:30,070 --> 01:39:32,590
the city promotes as a place
where Mill Creek makes memories

2220
01:39:32,590 --> 01:39:35,600
and where its showpiece event
space boasts spectacular views.

2221
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,600
There's nothing memorable,
visually spectacular,

2222
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:39,010
or even aesthetically
pleasing about

2223
01:39:39,010 --> 01:39:40,400
digital outdoor advertising.

2224
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:42,790
We understand the challenges
cities across Utah and America

2225
01:39:42,790 --> 01:39:45,040
face in moving long
standing static billboards,

2226
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:47,230
Thanks to state law
that gives billboards

2227
01:39:47,230 --> 01:39:49,700
the right to maintain
and remain in perpetuity.

2228
01:39:49,700 --> 01:39:52,330
Sign owners can refuse to remove
the billboards unless cities

2229
01:39:52,330 --> 01:39:55,150
agree to spend huge sums of
public money buying them out,

2230
01:39:55,150 --> 01:39:57,580
or they agree to the kind
of digital trade deals

2231
01:39:57,580 --> 01:40:00,070
Mill Creek is now cutting
with the industry.

2232
01:40:00,070 --> 01:40:02,860
The benefits to Billboard
companies of these exchanges

2233
01:40:02,860 --> 01:40:05,330
far outweighs the benefits
to cities and residents.

2234
01:40:05,330 --> 01:40:07,790
By industry's own estimates,
digital billboards

2235
01:40:07,790 --> 01:40:10,400
allow for replacement of 12
to 16 ads on one structure,

2236
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:12,030
especially if
they're double sided.

2237
01:40:12,030 --> 01:40:14,300
This means reaping profits
from multiple advertisers

2238
01:40:14,300 --> 01:40:16,730
at the same time generating
the same amount of revenue

2239
01:40:16,730 --> 01:40:18,660
as at least six to
eight static billboards.

2240
01:40:18,660 --> 01:40:20,210
Industry also profits
by eliminating

2241
01:40:20,210 --> 01:40:22,640
the material costs of
static, static billboards,

2242
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:24,030
vinyl, steel, labor.

2243
01:40:24,030 --> 01:40:24,690
Et cetera.

2244
01:40:24,690 --> 01:40:26,210
The revenue of
these deals generate

2245
01:40:26,210 --> 01:40:28,070
for cities pales in
comparison to the money

2246
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:29,430
Billboard companies earn.

2247
01:40:29,430 --> 01:40:31,460
But even in light of the
extra income from Mill Creek

2248
01:40:31,460 --> 01:40:34,340
treasury, this plan does not
align from the city's stated

2249
01:40:34,340 --> 01:40:36,650
goals to improve the safety and
visual image of the community

2250
01:40:36,650 --> 01:40:38,900
by enhancing the look and
feel of major corridors

2251
01:40:38,900 --> 01:40:40,680
and protecting our
scenic viewsheds.

2252
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:42,470
Instead, it saddles
residents and visitors

2253
01:40:42,470 --> 01:40:43,700
with a range of
negative impacts,

2254
01:40:43,700 --> 01:40:45,180
including safety hazards.

2255
01:40:45,180 --> 01:40:46,470
There is no opting out.

2256
01:40:46,470 --> 01:40:48,230
One reason so many people
object to billboards

2257
01:40:48,230 --> 01:40:49,820
and what makes them
such an effective medium

2258
01:40:49,820 --> 01:40:51,690
is that you can't
not look at them.

2259
01:40:51,690 --> 01:40:54,050
Unlike smartphones, televisions
or printed material,

2260
01:40:54,050 --> 01:40:56,040
outdoor advertising is
in our public realm.

2261
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:58,830
It's forced on views
with no way to opt out.

2262
01:40:58,830 --> 01:41:01,370
The city provided a lengthy
overview of studies related

2263
01:41:01,370 --> 01:41:02,960
to safety risks in
digital billboards,

2264
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:04,520
a key concern of
residents opposition

2265
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:06,030
to the digital design proposal.

2266
01:41:06,030 --> 01:41:08,300
It concluded there is no
evidence in any of these data

2267
01:41:08,300 --> 01:41:10,730
sets to suggest a correlation
between the digitization

2268
01:41:10,730 --> 01:41:12,590
of billboards at Mill
Creek's intersections

2269
01:41:12,590 --> 01:41:14,300
or an increased number
of distracted driving

2270
01:41:14,300 --> 01:41:15,540
accidents or even accidents.

2271
01:41:15,540 --> 01:41:17,870
Overall, however,
scenic Utah researchers

2272
01:41:17,870 --> 01:41:20,240
who have been investigating this
issue for the past three years

2273
01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:22,740
reached a different conclusion.

2274
01:41:22,740 --> 01:41:23,510
Excuse me.

2275
01:41:23,510 --> 01:41:26,390
For example, this map and
data set crashes in proximity

2276
01:41:26,390 --> 01:41:29,270
to digital billboards produced
by scenic Utah's data manager

2277
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:32,660
offers as evidence correlating
billboards and safety risks,

2278
01:41:32,660 --> 01:41:34,640
digital billboards are
increasingly incorporating

2279
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:36,770
facial recognition
enabled another technology

2280
01:41:36,770 --> 01:41:39,800
to target customers based
on their location, age,

2281
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:41,190
gender and online interests.

2282
01:41:41,190 --> 01:41:42,570
Raising privacy concerns.

2283
01:41:42,570 --> 01:41:44,120
The data are
captured anonymously

2284
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:46,910
without consumers consent and
without a means of opting out

2285
01:41:46,910 --> 01:41:48,540
of the surreptitious targeting.

2286
01:41:48,540 --> 01:41:50,780
These and other considerations
about the impacts and public

2287
01:41:50,780 --> 01:41:52,730
sentiment regarding digital
billboards in Mill Creek

2288
01:41:52,730 --> 01:41:54,260
should give pause
to the city leaders

2289
01:41:54,260 --> 01:41:57,020
before moving forward to
approve this exchange mechanism

2290
01:41:57,020 --> 01:41:58,940
rather than acquiescing
to industry's

2291
01:41:58,940 --> 01:42:00,630
onerous and community
unfriendly demands.

2292
01:42:00,630 --> 01:42:02,390
We urge the city to
consider other mechanisms

2293
01:42:02,390 --> 01:42:04,220
for removing
unwanted billboards,

2294
01:42:04,220 --> 01:42:07,310
or at the least requiring more
stringent conditions in terms

2295
01:42:07,310 --> 01:42:10,100
for how future digital signage
will be sited regulated

2296
01:42:10,100 --> 01:42:12,960
and managed to meet the city's
character and protection goals.

2297
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:15,170
We appreciate the opportunity
to provide our perspective

2298
01:42:15,170 --> 01:42:17,270
on this difficult
decision and would welcome

2299
01:42:17,270 --> 01:42:18,860
an opportunity to
meet with city leaders

2300
01:42:18,860 --> 01:42:20,190
to offer additional input.

2301
01:42:20,190 --> 01:42:23,060
Sincerely, Kate
kopischke, scenic Utah.

2302
01:42:23,060 --> 01:42:25,580
Thank you, Francis.

2303
01:42:25,580 --> 01:42:28,270
I haven't done that since I
was debating in high school.

2304
01:42:28,270 --> 01:42:32,090


2305
01:42:32,090 --> 01:42:33,930
And I think that's all
the public comments.

2306
01:42:33,930 --> 01:42:36,030
Unless I'll just check
with Elise quickly

2307
01:42:36,030 --> 01:42:38,160
to see if anything has come
through in the last couple

2308
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:39,780
of minutes.

2309
01:42:39,780 --> 01:42:43,080
OK, so I'll close the
public comment portion

2310
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:47,010
for this application and
bring it back to commission

2311
01:42:47,010 --> 01:42:51,030
for discussion and.

2312
01:42:51,030 --> 01:42:53,490
Emotion and we can
think our emotions are

2313
01:42:53,490 --> 01:42:56,070
we can do a
recommendation in favor,

2314
01:42:56,070 --> 01:43:00,330
in favor of changes, denial
or even possibly continuance

2315
01:43:00,330 --> 01:43:02,140
if we have a need to do that.

2316
01:43:02,140 --> 01:43:05,050


2317
01:43:05,050 --> 01:43:07,600
Francis, do you have a slide
that shows all four proposed

2318
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:09,260
options on the same slide?

2319
01:43:09,260 --> 01:43:13,680
No I don't.

2320
01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:14,260
I wish I did.

2321
01:43:14,260 --> 01:43:15,360
I can kind of
cycle through them.

2322
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:15,995
Right if you want.

2323
01:43:15,995 --> 01:43:16,495
Real quick.

2324
01:43:16,495 --> 01:43:22,360


2325
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:28,870
So option one is to allow for
up to two digital district signs

2326
01:43:28,870 --> 01:43:31,960
that would emphasize removing
of digital removing of existing

2327
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:33,770
billboards in the city center.

2328
01:43:33,770 --> 01:43:37,180
Option two would be to
digital district signs

2329
01:43:37,180 --> 01:43:40,090
subject to an exchange
agreement that removes

2330
01:43:40,090 --> 01:43:42,250
nonconforming billboards
anywhere in Mill Creek

2331
01:43:42,250 --> 01:43:43,490
subject to these standards.

2332
01:43:43,490 --> 01:43:44,530
These five.

2333
01:43:44,530 --> 01:43:46,930
Option 3 is 1 sign.

2334
01:43:46,930 --> 01:43:49,300
OK and we can treat
that as either

2335
01:43:49,300 --> 01:43:51,010
removing billboards
in the city center

2336
01:43:51,010 --> 01:43:53,210
or these nonconforming signs.

2337
01:43:53,210 --> 01:43:55,460
And option 4 is the null option.

2338
01:43:55,460 --> 01:43:56,660
Don't do anything.

2339
01:43:56,660 --> 01:43:59,090
Leave it alone.

2340
01:43:59,090 --> 01:44:00,030
That's the option.

2341
01:44:00,030 --> 01:44:02,990
And I took some notes
related to the notes

2342
01:44:02,990 --> 01:44:05,510
that you had on the
sign code that I

2343
01:44:05,510 --> 01:44:06,710
put up here, too,
because we'll need

2344
01:44:06,710 --> 01:44:08,220
to talk about that as well.

2345
01:44:08,220 --> 01:44:10,710
We can handle this
however you want.

2346
01:44:10,710 --> 01:44:12,450
And I think these
are good options.

2347
01:44:12,450 --> 01:44:13,950
We can use this as
a jumping off point,

2348
01:44:13,950 --> 01:44:17,910
but we could also look
at a combination of these

2349
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:20,310
or a different option, too.

2350
01:44:20,310 --> 01:44:21,680
But this I think from last week.

2351
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:22,980
I don't want to speak
for you, Francis,

2352
01:44:22,980 --> 01:44:26,280
but you're presenting
this from direction

2353
01:44:26,280 --> 01:44:30,150
from the city to look at ways
to reduce digital billboards,

2354
01:44:30,150 --> 01:44:34,180
since that was part of a policy
in our general plan, right?

2355
01:44:34,180 --> 01:44:36,330
So I think that's
why these are one,

2356
01:44:36,330 --> 01:44:40,590
two, three are looking at
exchanges to reduce billboards.

2357
01:44:40,590 --> 01:44:44,530
And Mr chair, I
have one suggestion.

2358
01:44:44,530 --> 01:44:47,970
If you put the
exchange agreements out

2359
01:44:47,970 --> 01:44:50,610
to a bid or proposals from
various sign companies,

2360
01:44:50,610 --> 01:44:54,900
if you pick one of the options
that contemplate an exchange.

2361
01:44:54,900 --> 01:44:58,493
Thank you.

2362
01:44:58,493 --> 01:44:59,760
And before we got
into the discussion,

2363
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:01,450
I just wanted to
do just a brief,

2364
01:45:01,450 --> 01:45:05,150
clarifying, clarifying response.

2365
01:45:05,150 --> 01:45:09,660
Nathan and I do I read
your letter and Thank you.

2366
01:45:09,660 --> 01:45:11,880
Since we were
looking at the sign

2367
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:16,440
regarding the outdoor
advertising, the billboards.

2368
01:45:16,440 --> 01:45:19,650
Since this sign change, the
part that covers billboards

2369
01:45:19,650 --> 01:45:21,960
is just for these
district signs.

2370
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,530
The points you referenced
aren't things we're

2371
01:45:25,530 --> 01:45:27,420
looking at changing right?

2372
01:45:27,420 --> 01:45:28,090
Right now.

2373
01:45:28,090 --> 01:45:33,460
So Yeah.

2374
01:45:33,460 --> 01:45:34,860
Yeah and I think, I
think it was something

2375
01:45:34,860 --> 01:45:39,240
I was talking with Jeff about
is we stumbled upon all this

2376
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:42,300
through an employee getting on
the site to apply for a permit.

2377
01:45:42,300 --> 01:45:46,250
And so all of this
is completely for us.

2378
01:45:46,250 --> 01:45:46,940
Brand new.

2379
01:45:46,940 --> 01:45:49,340
And so were a little
bit surprised to just

2380
01:45:49,340 --> 01:45:53,280
be finding out about
this now, considering.

2381
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:54,130
Yeah, what we do.

2382
01:45:54,130 --> 01:45:57,930
And so I think for that reason,
if we can help on the Billboard

2383
01:45:57,930 --> 01:46:00,010
side, on the sign side.

2384
01:46:00,010 --> 01:46:01,330
We're all ears.

2385
01:46:01,330 --> 01:46:05,220
We live and interact
in these communities.

2386
01:46:05,220 --> 01:46:07,533
Yeah so whatever questions
you have, we're here.

2387
01:46:07,533 --> 01:46:09,000
Yeah and I appreciate
you putting that later

2388
01:46:09,000 --> 01:46:10,540
because I just want to clarify.

2389
01:46:10,540 --> 01:46:14,280
So we weren't ignoring
the points you brought up.

2390
01:46:14,280 --> 01:46:18,030
They're just not germane to
the part of the ordinance

2391
01:46:18,030 --> 01:46:18,850
that we're looking at.

2392
01:46:18,850 --> 01:46:21,840
Yeah, well, because we have
the digital Billboard out

2393
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:24,510
on the 15, if that
one piece of code is,

2394
01:46:24,510 --> 01:46:27,830
it can only change
once every 24 hours.

2395
01:46:27,830 --> 01:46:29,100
Doesn't happen.

2396
01:46:29,100 --> 01:46:30,283
So sorry.

2397
01:46:30,283 --> 01:46:34,170


2398
01:46:34,170 --> 01:46:35,550
Yeah, that's.

2399
01:46:35,550 --> 01:46:37,330
Yeah, that's existing code.

2400
01:46:37,330 --> 01:46:39,630
But I suggest you call
me and then we can talk

2401
01:46:39,630 --> 01:46:40,745
about your particular issue.

2402
01:46:40,745 --> 01:46:52,270


2403
01:46:52,270 --> 01:46:53,893
Commissioners thoughts.

2404
01:46:53,893 --> 01:46:58,080


2405
01:46:58,080 --> 01:46:58,630
And Dwayne.

2406
01:46:58,630 --> 01:46:59,530
I don't want to ignore you.

2407
01:46:59,530 --> 01:47:01,780
We see you on the screen
so you can jump in.

2408
01:47:01,780 --> 01:47:03,850
You're still part
of this discussion.

2409
01:47:03,850 --> 01:47:14,300


2410
01:47:14,300 --> 01:47:15,820
And what do we vote for?

2411
01:47:15,820 --> 01:47:18,390


2412
01:47:18,390 --> 01:47:23,010
And with this, the major issues
on this safety aesthetics

2413
01:47:23,010 --> 01:47:27,370
and to me, value is what
it really boils down to.

2414
01:47:27,370 --> 01:47:28,510
Um, safety.

2415
01:47:28,510 --> 01:47:30,580
There's, you know, arguments
on both sides of this.

2416
01:47:30,580 --> 01:47:32,340
I think that's kind of a push.

2417
01:47:32,340 --> 01:47:35,730
Aesthetics of value to me
are the two big issues.

2418
01:47:35,730 --> 01:47:40,240
Um, aesthetically, I'm not
a fan of digital billboards.

2419
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:42,810
I really, really don't like
the existing district sign

2420
01:47:42,810 --> 01:47:45,810
for a number of reasons,
primarily because this

2421
01:47:45,810 --> 01:47:48,480
is the entryway into the
Commons and I don't think

2422
01:47:48,480 --> 01:47:49,690
it's welcoming to the Commons.

2423
01:47:49,690 --> 01:47:51,000
I don't think it's
consistent with,

2424
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:54,100
you know, people arriving
at a city center.

2425
01:47:54,100 --> 01:48:01,320
It's so digital and lacking
in real design and components

2426
01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:04,380
there that, you know,
branded as you know, hey,

2427
01:48:04,380 --> 01:48:06,540
you've just arrived at
the city center and this,

2428
01:48:06,540 --> 01:48:08,370
this is Mill Creek.

2429
01:48:08,370 --> 01:48:10,620
Um, if there's going to
be another district sign,

2430
01:48:10,620 --> 01:48:12,450
I would want a completely
different design

2431
01:48:12,450 --> 01:48:16,140
than what is there so that
there's more than just a

2432
01:48:16,140 --> 01:48:19,360
hanging digital signage there.

2433
01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:22,360
Um, but for me on this,
the value on this,

2434
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,160
is it worth the trade offs?

2435
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:28,240
Is it worth dealing
with the digital signs

2436
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:32,170
in order to get rid of some
of these existing billboards?

2437
01:48:32,170 --> 01:48:36,220
Um, personally, I don't
think that the trade

2438
01:48:36,220 --> 01:48:37,940
off is worth it at this point.

2439
01:48:37,940 --> 01:48:40,060
If I'm going to make a
change to the status quo,

2440
01:48:40,060 --> 01:48:44,060
I want to be persuaded that I'm
moving in a better direction.

2441
01:48:44,060 --> 01:48:46,300
And quite frankly, I'm
not persuaded that this is

2442
01:48:46,300 --> 01:48:48,340
moving in a better direction.

2443
01:48:48,340 --> 01:48:50,290
I really don't like
static billboards

2444
01:48:50,290 --> 01:48:53,890
or digital billboards, but
unfortunately, you know,

2445
01:48:53,890 --> 01:48:56,020
we're faced with an
either/or situation

2446
01:48:56,020 --> 01:48:58,010
rather than neither of them.

2447
01:48:58,010 --> 01:49:00,580
And so if it's an
either/or situation,

2448
01:49:00,580 --> 01:49:02,180
I'll take the devil I know.

2449
01:49:02,180 --> 01:49:07,330
And I would say, you know, let's
just, um, keep the existing

2450
01:49:07,330 --> 01:49:09,820
billboards until we come up
with what I would believe

2451
01:49:09,820 --> 01:49:12,880
would be a better solution
for getting rid of billboards

2452
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:15,190
rather than charging into
these digital billboards

2453
01:49:15,190 --> 01:49:17,010
coming into the Commons.

2454
01:49:17,010 --> 01:49:20,710
Um, if inevitably there's
going to be digital billboards,

2455
01:49:20,710 --> 01:49:22,120
I would only do
the one on 13 piece

2456
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:23,930
and get the one
off Highland drive.

2457
01:49:23,930 --> 01:49:27,070
And when it comes time to
make a motion and vote,

2458
01:49:27,070 --> 01:49:31,300
my recommendation would be
because there's so much tied up

2459
01:49:31,300 --> 01:49:33,730
with the district
digital signs compared

2460
01:49:33,730 --> 01:49:34,760
to the rest of the sign code.

2461
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,030
In general, my
preference would be to

2462
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:39,890
for two separate recommendations
to the city council.

2463
01:49:39,890 --> 01:49:44,020
One regarding the sign
code overall exclusive

2464
01:49:44,020 --> 01:49:49,480
of signs, and then a
separate recommendation

2465
01:49:49,480 --> 01:49:53,920
regarding signs aspect of it.

2466
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:55,570
Thank you, Dwayne.

2467
01:49:55,570 --> 01:49:56,360
That got loud.

2468
01:49:56,360 --> 01:49:59,460


2469
01:49:59,460 --> 01:50:00,420
Other thoughts.

2470
01:50:00,420 --> 01:50:03,020
Diane? go ahead.

2471
01:50:03,020 --> 01:50:07,320
Diane so I would totally
agree with Duane.

2472
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:10,210
I think about the same
thing back and forth.

2473
01:50:10,210 --> 01:50:15,650
For me personally, on the
changes to the basic code,

2474
01:50:15,650 --> 01:50:18,830
I think we can make some
of those that needed

2475
01:50:18,830 --> 01:50:20,900
to be changed or adjusted.

2476
01:50:20,900 --> 01:50:24,980
I think that from
the ASCO letter

2477
01:50:24,980 --> 01:50:28,460
we should look to make sure
that what we're doing in code

2478
01:50:28,460 --> 01:50:31,850
doesn't really go against
every piece of technology

2479
01:50:31,850 --> 01:50:33,120
that's already out there.

2480
01:50:33,120 --> 01:50:37,340
So those are like I think
he talked about lighting

2481
01:50:37,340 --> 01:50:40,710
and this the safety issues.

2482
01:50:40,710 --> 01:50:45,230
So safety for me, big issue.

2483
01:50:45,230 --> 01:50:48,620
I don't feel like
I have enough data.

2484
01:50:48,620 --> 01:50:54,830
We have had like two people
send us tiny little studies

2485
01:50:54,830 --> 01:50:59,030
and I'm a data queen, so I
don't feel like from a safety

2486
01:50:59,030 --> 01:51:01,070
perspective, I can
say whether they're

2487
01:51:01,070 --> 01:51:05,960
good or bad, digital
or static because we

2488
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,320
don't really have data.

2489
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:12,590
So my vote would be to do
nothing from the standpoint

2490
01:51:12,590 --> 01:51:15,260
of I don't have
enough data to make

2491
01:51:15,260 --> 01:51:17,870
a solid decision either way.

2492
01:51:17,870 --> 01:51:22,600
I think the other
piece for me is.

2493
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:25,430
This exchange conversation.

2494
01:51:25,430 --> 01:51:28,870
And I and I did tell Francis,
if we had to have one

2495
01:51:28,870 --> 01:51:31,810
here in the city center,
a digital billboard,

2496
01:51:31,810 --> 01:51:35,320
I would only put one more
and put it on the 1,300 side

2497
01:51:35,320 --> 01:51:39,680
because there's no housing
and it's all commercial.

2498
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:42,160
And frankly, it's
facing Salt Lake City.

2499
01:51:42,160 --> 01:51:44,830
So, you know, it's
not Mill Creek

2500
01:51:44,830 --> 01:51:47,170
that would be so obnoxious for.

2501
01:51:47,170 --> 01:51:50,110
Not yet.

2502
01:51:50,110 --> 01:51:52,870
I we might want it someday, huh?

2503
01:51:52,870 --> 01:51:55,690
The other portion for me,
though, is in the discussion

2504
01:51:55,690 --> 01:51:57,180
of the exchanges.

2505
01:51:57,180 --> 01:52:00,200
Again, I don't feel like
I have enough information.

2506
01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:03,640
And frankly, what I do
know, based on calculations

2507
01:52:03,640 --> 01:52:07,090
and I don't know which gentleman
it was who sent the email where

2508
01:52:07,090 --> 01:52:09,070
he actually went through
the square footage

2509
01:52:09,070 --> 01:52:11,140
of the signs that
existed in Mill creek,

2510
01:52:11,140 --> 01:52:13,300
and he added them all up.

2511
01:52:13,300 --> 01:52:16,460
To me, there needs to be
a formula for exchange.

2512
01:52:16,460 --> 01:52:20,170
A very mathematical formula
that if we're going to give you

2513
01:52:20,170 --> 01:52:24,520
a billboard, you have to
give us some relatively equal

2514
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:26,270
amount of the old static ones.

2515
01:52:26,270 --> 01:52:28,510
But again, I feel
like I don't have

2516
01:52:28,510 --> 01:52:33,430
enough information to
make a logical motion

2517
01:52:33,430 --> 01:52:36,250
to say we should do anything.

2518
01:52:36,250 --> 01:52:42,370
And then on the final part of
it, I'm kind of with everybody

2519
01:52:42,370 --> 01:52:44,110
we've heard from
and I guess this

2520
01:52:44,110 --> 01:52:48,170
was the same result three years
ago is people don't like them.

2521
01:52:48,170 --> 01:52:50,380
And I know you guys run the
business, so I'm really sorry,

2522
01:52:50,380 --> 01:52:52,190
but people don't like them.

2523
01:52:52,190 --> 01:52:56,110
And so the reality is, if
we want a community, which

2524
01:52:56,110 --> 01:52:59,080
our general plan says, mountain
views, mountain views don't

2525
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:03,490
take away views, we've already
made adjustments by taking away

2526
01:53:03,490 --> 01:53:06,010
views for people with housing.

2527
01:53:06,010 --> 01:53:10,100
And I think if we can
get rid of signage.

2528
01:53:10,100 --> 01:53:12,870
To keep or get views.

2529
01:53:12,870 --> 01:53:16,900
I would always vote for views.

2530
01:53:16,900 --> 01:53:18,730
And I know there's a lot
of people who don't really

2531
01:53:18,730 --> 01:53:21,310
make that into a thing
because they've lived here

2532
01:53:21,310 --> 01:53:23,590
their whole lives and
make assumptions about how

2533
01:53:23,590 --> 01:53:24,560
cool the mountains are.

2534
01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:25,970
But I haven't.

2535
01:53:25,970 --> 01:53:28,670
And I want mountain
views all day long.

2536
01:53:28,670 --> 01:53:32,050
So to me, we should just
go take them all down.

2537
01:53:32,050 --> 01:53:34,210
So sorry.

2538
01:53:34,210 --> 01:53:37,870
I know you guys probably run a
great business, but so again,

2539
01:53:37,870 --> 01:53:39,760
I don't have I don't
feel like I have

2540
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:41,740
enough information to make.

2541
01:53:41,740 --> 01:53:44,290
I can make minor code.

2542
01:53:44,290 --> 01:53:49,690
But option wise, I would
be at 3:00 or four.

2543
01:53:49,690 --> 01:53:50,510
Thanks, Diane.

2544
01:53:50,510 --> 01:53:55,280


2545
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:58,460
I think on the just with the
several issues that have been

2546
01:53:58,460 --> 01:54:01,670
pointed out here on
the safety item, again,

2547
01:54:01,670 --> 01:54:02,930
I think I know a
lot of these studies

2548
01:54:02,930 --> 01:54:05,840
can go you can read it
either way, but just

2549
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:08,960
from personal experience and
living in this neighborhood,

2550
01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:11,420
when I drive in the
day and even at night,

2551
01:54:11,420 --> 01:54:14,090
it's not that much of a
problem when you're driving

2552
01:54:14,090 --> 01:54:17,810
past this sign, but as soon
as the snow or the rain falls,

2553
01:54:17,810 --> 01:54:19,170
it can't see anything.

2554
01:54:19,170 --> 01:54:21,000
It just erases the
lines all through this.

2555
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:23,100
And I hate it because
that happens on I-15, too.

2556
01:54:23,100 --> 01:54:25,340
And that's really my
big opposition and where

2557
01:54:25,340 --> 01:54:26,730
the safety concern comes in.

2558
01:54:26,730 --> 01:54:29,420
And usually the
studies, at least

2559
01:54:29,420 --> 01:54:31,550
the ones that I've
reviewed, have,

2560
01:54:31,550 --> 01:54:33,560
don't really address that.

2561
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:38,360
So that's as far as the safety
that I'd like to make note of.

2562
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:41,600
So and just again, to my
understanding is because this

2563
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:44,510
is a legislative item, we are
just making a recommendation

2564
01:54:44,510 --> 01:54:46,020
to the city that.

2565
01:54:46,020 --> 01:54:51,520
Correct and so if we're
making a recommendation,

2566
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,550
I would vote for four that
we keep it the way it is.

2567
01:54:54,550 --> 01:54:58,050
However, if the city is
going to move, since they're

2568
01:54:58,050 --> 01:55:01,020
the applicant, if they're going
to city council is going to go

2569
01:55:01,020 --> 01:55:03,060
and do what they
want to do, I I'm

2570
01:55:03,060 --> 01:55:05,010
with you where I want a
very clear understanding

2571
01:55:05,010 --> 01:55:07,240
of what this exchange is.

2572
01:55:07,240 --> 01:55:11,220
And we talked about
value also where

2573
01:55:11,220 --> 01:55:15,090
there are certain signs
that have a greater value

2574
01:55:15,090 --> 01:55:16,690
for being removed than others.

2575
01:55:16,690 --> 01:55:20,040
Right and and also, there has
to be an equitable approach

2576
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:23,520
because if we provide
one digital sign that's

2577
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:26,310
an advantageous to
one company, however,

2578
01:55:26,310 --> 01:55:27,630
the signs that we
want to remove might

2579
01:55:27,630 --> 01:55:29,050
be from different companies.

2580
01:55:29,050 --> 01:55:31,000
So that's how that
balance works.

2581
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:33,000
It sounds like a
nightmare of a formula,

2582
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:37,080
but I think that's something
that I would like to have

2583
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:39,450
a very hopefully that
city council has a very

2584
01:55:39,450 --> 01:55:40,950
clear understanding
of what it is

2585
01:55:40,950 --> 01:55:42,360
that they would be
accepting if they

2586
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:44,160
decided to go that direction.

2587
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:45,900
That would be my recommendation.

2588
01:55:45,900 --> 01:55:46,445
Thanks, David.

2589
01:55:46,445 --> 01:55:54,620


2590
01:55:54,620 --> 01:55:59,930
Yeah, I. I definitely
prefer option four.

2591
01:55:59,930 --> 01:56:03,770
I don't see a
pressing need to do

2592
01:56:03,770 --> 01:56:07,420
the sign right now I feel like.

2593
01:56:07,420 --> 01:56:08,930
Like Diane.

2594
01:56:08,930 --> 01:56:10,730
I feel like data
has not presented.

2595
01:56:10,730 --> 01:56:12,790
And I'm thinking a
little bit different data

2596
01:56:12,790 --> 01:56:16,000
and that's I just heard
anecdotal data about the need

2597
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:19,240
for this, for the sign that
it was helpful for the city

2598
01:56:19,240 --> 01:56:21,700
and publicizing
its events and also

2599
01:56:21,700 --> 01:56:22,790
that it was been effective.

2600
01:56:22,790 --> 01:56:23,570
So far.

2601
01:56:23,570 --> 01:56:25,510
But the reality is
that's not the only way

2602
01:56:25,510 --> 01:56:27,320
the city publicizes its events.

2603
01:56:27,320 --> 01:56:29,380
So I feel like that's
sort of an assumption

2604
01:56:29,380 --> 01:56:34,510
that the sign is another sign
is going to make this huge,

2605
01:56:34,510 --> 01:56:36,850
this huge difference.

2606
01:56:36,850 --> 01:56:42,023
I, I also think that I mean,
I think competition is good.

2607
01:56:42,023 --> 01:56:43,190
I thought that was
interesting what

2608
01:56:43,190 --> 01:56:47,200
you was saying about
having competition

2609
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:50,310
if we were going to.

2610
01:56:50,310 --> 01:56:52,180
Build a district sign.

2611
01:56:52,180 --> 01:56:54,120
But I think it's sort of
interesting because it's also

2612
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:56,280
saying that they
see value in terms

2613
01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:58,500
of from a financial
point of view

2614
01:56:58,500 --> 01:57:00,070
and want to level
the playing field.

2615
01:57:00,070 --> 01:57:05,060
So that's telling me
that they see potential.

2616
01:57:05,060 --> 01:57:08,000
Financial remuneration
that I'm not I

2617
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,620
guess I'm not really thinking
the city is trying to.

2618
01:57:11,620 --> 01:57:14,700
Um, build the coffers of.

2619
01:57:14,700 --> 01:57:16,200
Billboard companies.

2620
01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:18,900
I'm obviously because I've
been on the planning commission

2621
01:57:18,900 --> 01:57:22,140
for a while, I'm
very much concerned

2622
01:57:22,140 --> 01:57:24,960
about viewsheds and
about protecting

2623
01:57:24,960 --> 01:57:27,390
our views of the mountain.

2624
01:57:27,390 --> 01:57:31,540
I also just want to
make one more comment.

2625
01:57:31,540 --> 01:57:34,500
I do feel like I like the
conservative lighting standards

2626
01:57:34,500 --> 01:57:37,630
that we have in
the current code.

2627
01:57:37,630 --> 01:57:40,110
I think that they were put
together with thought and care

2628
01:57:40,110 --> 01:57:43,650
and I see no reason
to change those.

2629
01:57:43,650 --> 01:57:47,610
And I also see that I would
like to agree with separating

2630
01:57:47,610 --> 01:57:51,330
the two sections of the sign
ordinance that we're looking

2631
01:57:51,330 --> 01:57:55,050
at, the digital I mean,
just the regular Billboard

2632
01:57:55,050 --> 01:57:57,060
ordinance or the sign
ordinance and then

2633
01:57:57,060 --> 01:58:03,950
the district sign ordinance
and let's see, I think lasting.

2634
01:58:03,950 --> 01:58:06,800
And I actually I'm the
person that suggested the

2635
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:09,830
if we had to have
a district sign,

2636
01:58:09,830 --> 01:58:14,710
I was the one who suggested
the one on Highland.

2637
01:58:14,710 --> 01:58:15,530
Last time.

2638
01:58:15,530 --> 01:58:21,920
I consider it an inferior
solution, but, you know.

2639
01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:25,080
If we can't if we can't
ban it altogether.

2640
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:28,400
And I do think, as I agreeing
with my fellow commissioners,

2641
01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:31,100
that we need to have much
clearer, stronger language

2642
01:58:31,100 --> 01:58:34,610
of what kind of a ratio or
how we would not just like,

2643
01:58:34,610 --> 01:58:37,190
we'll make a good deal.

2644
01:58:37,190 --> 01:58:38,620
Not very compelling to me.

2645
01:58:38,620 --> 01:58:40,210
Thank you.

2646
01:58:40,210 --> 01:58:41,560
Thanks, Victoria.

2647
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:42,700
Steve or Nils.

2648
01:58:42,700 --> 01:58:48,380
Thanks I feel like I'm
clearly in the minority

2649
01:58:48,380 --> 01:58:52,220
here that I actually think
the sign looks pretty good.

2650
01:58:52,220 --> 01:58:53,780
If I could have
two more of those

2651
01:58:53,780 --> 01:58:55,190
versus a bunch of
billboards, I'd

2652
01:58:55,190 --> 01:58:57,890
rather have two more of those.

2653
01:58:57,890 --> 01:59:02,930
Just from the aesthetics of the
structure itself, I'm speaking.

2654
01:59:02,930 --> 01:59:06,500
So that said, I think the caveat
to that I'd probably prefer

2655
01:59:06,500 --> 01:59:09,020
option two with the
caveat that, you know,

2656
01:59:09,020 --> 01:59:10,520
the exchange
agreement would need

2657
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:12,860
to be quite aggressive
to make it worth

2658
01:59:12,860 --> 01:59:16,940
it to justify putting those in.

2659
01:59:16,940 --> 01:59:19,820
I'd like it in the sense
that it could take down

2660
01:59:19,820 --> 01:59:24,917
some unattractive billboards
and also in the vein

2661
01:59:24,917 --> 01:59:26,050
that we've talked
about, you know,

2662
01:59:26,050 --> 01:59:28,850
sightlines and mountain
views, these are much smaller.

2663
01:59:28,850 --> 01:59:30,090
They're much shorter.

2664
01:59:30,090 --> 01:59:33,740
I think it does a better job
of protecting those views.

2665
01:59:33,740 --> 01:59:38,305
But clearly, I'm in the
minority here, so it's OK.

2666
01:59:38,305 --> 01:59:42,550


2667
01:59:42,550 --> 01:59:45,265
Um, I don't know if you're
totally in the minority males,

2668
01:59:45,265 --> 01:59:45,765
but.

2669
01:59:45,765 --> 01:59:48,880


2670
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:53,650
You know, I mean, I wish
we could get rid of all the

2671
01:59:53,650 --> 01:59:56,290
off premise signs,
actually, and replace them

2672
01:59:56,290 --> 02:00:00,070
with if I knew all the square
footage of off premise signs

2673
02:00:00,070 --> 02:00:04,920
on 3,300 South all the
way from through the city.

2674
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:07,950
I wish we could take
that square footage

2675
02:00:07,950 --> 02:00:12,450
and put them to every 8
seconds on a few billboards,

2676
02:00:12,450 --> 02:00:14,040
have just three
or four billboards

2677
02:00:14,040 --> 02:00:19,780
in that whole entire area of
33 instead of the 100 or so.

2678
02:00:19,780 --> 02:00:20,880
I don't know how
many off premise

2679
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:23,020
signs should say we have.

2680
02:00:23,020 --> 02:00:25,870
54, 50, 51, 51.

2681
02:00:25,870 --> 02:00:28,480
I'd like to take get
rid of 51 off premise.

2682
02:00:28,480 --> 02:00:30,720
Oh, in the city or
on that corridor?

2683
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:31,540
Oh, in the city.

2684
02:00:31,540 --> 02:00:32,460
In the city.

2685
02:00:32,460 --> 02:00:36,210
I'd like to get rid of
51 off premise billboards

2686
02:00:36,210 --> 02:00:42,030
and put it down to five
or six digital billboards

2687
02:00:42,030 --> 02:00:46,730
for throughout the entire
city in strategic places.

2688
02:00:46,730 --> 02:00:50,165
Yeah, I don't think that's
an issue with one on.

2689
02:00:50,165 --> 02:00:52,840


2690
02:00:52,840 --> 02:00:55,970
On 13th east, the
Highland drive one.

2691
02:00:55,970 --> 02:00:57,820
I mean, there will be a
new building right there

2692
02:00:57,820 --> 02:00:59,890
that blocks that whole
neighborhood from even

2693
02:00:59,890 --> 02:01:02,300
seeing that digital sign.

2694
02:01:02,300 --> 02:01:06,410
But but maybe three digital
signs isn't really needed.

2695
02:01:06,410 --> 02:01:09,490
And right in this vicinity,
we need these more

2696
02:01:09,490 --> 02:01:11,420
spread out throughout the city.

2697
02:01:11,420 --> 02:01:15,100
And look at that
exchange agreement a lot

2698
02:01:15,100 --> 02:01:21,270
closer and more have a
better exchange on it.

2699
02:01:21,270 --> 02:01:23,910
But it's.

2700
02:01:23,910 --> 02:01:24,810
I don't know.

2701
02:01:24,810 --> 02:01:28,160
It's hard to.

2702
02:01:28,160 --> 02:01:30,720
Um, it's a.

2703
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:32,320
You know, signage is needed.

2704
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:34,800
It's a legitimate business, too.

2705
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:38,980
But on premise signs, too,
is extremely important.

2706
02:01:38,980 --> 02:01:41,970
And I like what we've
done on premise stuff

2707
02:01:41,970 --> 02:01:44,560
that we've changed in that.

2708
02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:46,710
But anyway.

2709
02:01:46,710 --> 02:01:48,990
And so I guess I'm
not helping any.

2710
02:01:48,990 --> 02:01:50,560
No, you kind of recommendation.

2711
02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:51,070
That's helping.

2712
02:01:51,070 --> 02:01:53,880


2713
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:57,340
I kind of like to ask a
question of the Glasgow guys.

2714
02:01:57,340 --> 02:01:59,460
So do you know how
many billboards

2715
02:01:59,460 --> 02:02:01,910
you have in Mill creek?

2716
02:02:01,910 --> 02:02:02,580
It's five.

2717
02:02:02,580 --> 02:02:03,410
Yeah come on up.

2718
02:02:03,410 --> 02:02:04,380
Just curious.

2719
02:02:04,380 --> 02:02:06,150
I'm going to ask
several questions.

2720
02:02:06,150 --> 02:02:08,790
Yes, we have five structures
totaling nine faces.

2721
02:02:08,790 --> 02:02:11,720
OK so from an
educational standpoint,

2722
02:02:11,720 --> 02:02:15,500
for those of us who, you know,
want to get rid of billboards,

2723
02:02:15,500 --> 02:02:19,160
and I agree with you, I actually
like the Mill Creek sign.

2724
02:02:19,160 --> 02:02:23,060
What I want to be
educated on is what

2725
02:02:23,060 --> 02:02:25,080
is happening in your industry.

2726
02:02:25,080 --> 02:02:27,870
The people are going
electronic, right?

2727
02:02:27,870 --> 02:02:32,090
I mean, there's Francis and
I had this conversation.

2728
02:02:32,090 --> 02:02:33,990
It's unavoidable.

2729
02:02:33,990 --> 02:02:37,580
It's going there now,
whether it's Billboard signs

2730
02:02:37,580 --> 02:02:38,850
or whatever.

2731
02:02:38,850 --> 02:02:41,810
You know, I brought up the fact
that I don't know if anybody's

2732
02:02:41,810 --> 02:02:46,460
paid attention that there is
one now below the Golden arches

2733
02:02:46,460 --> 02:02:48,540
at the McDonald's on 33rd.

2734
02:02:48,540 --> 02:02:51,390
And it's not a huge
one, but it's digital.

2735
02:02:51,390 --> 02:02:54,740
And as businesses
come down or up

2736
02:02:54,740 --> 02:02:59,060
33rd, are they going to
be coming for permits

2737
02:02:59,060 --> 02:03:01,430
and they will meet
code and they're

2738
02:03:01,430 --> 02:03:03,520
going to get digital signs.

2739
02:03:03,520 --> 02:03:06,960
So from a Billboard
perspective, as we've

2740
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:08,460
been talking, because
I know you said

2741
02:03:08,460 --> 02:03:10,990
you're new to what's going on.

2742
02:03:10,990 --> 02:03:15,000
If if we said to you, we want
you to take all five of those

2743
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:20,060
down and have one electronic
sign, what would you say to me?

2744
02:03:20,060 --> 02:03:21,560
It's a very good question.

2745
02:03:21,560 --> 02:03:25,550
I think I think first you need
to segment it out on premise

2746
02:03:25,550 --> 02:03:28,750
and off premise are two
very, very different worlds.

2747
02:03:28,750 --> 02:03:32,550
So off premise, if you came
to me and said, give me five.

2748
02:03:32,550 --> 02:03:35,270
And I'll give you that
one right there, it

2749
02:03:35,270 --> 02:03:36,510
all depends on the terms.

2750
02:03:36,510 --> 02:03:39,920
And the reality
is Yes goes view.

2751
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:41,930
We haven't been
here for 140 years

2752
02:03:41,930 --> 02:03:45,050
just because we're
never going away.

2753
02:03:45,050 --> 02:03:48,380
We are long term
committed company.

2754
02:03:48,380 --> 02:03:51,560
And so when it comes to
working with landowners

2755
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:55,550
and getting ground leases,
we're not trying to make

2756
02:03:55,550 --> 02:03:57,180
a quick escape on this thing.

2757
02:03:57,180 --> 02:04:01,070
We we derive relationships
and our landowners

2758
02:04:01,070 --> 02:04:03,390
derive value out of our
structures being there.

2759
02:04:03,390 --> 02:04:04,970
They get money.

2760
02:04:04,970 --> 02:04:08,480
And so by saying, yeah,
let's take five away,

2761
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:12,200
you're ruining income of
five potential landowners in

2762
02:04:12,200 --> 02:04:14,540
your community and its income.

2763
02:04:14,540 --> 02:04:18,110
And so it's a
balance between what

2764
02:04:18,110 --> 02:04:19,550
does the company
need versus what

2765
02:04:19,550 --> 02:04:21,560
do we do with the landowners?

2766
02:04:21,560 --> 02:04:24,500
In in a market
like this where we

2767
02:04:24,500 --> 02:04:28,070
can't go to a commercial zone
and just say, yep, got it.

2768
02:04:28,070 --> 02:04:29,160
Got to deal with the landowner.

2769
02:04:29,160 --> 02:04:30,760
We're going to put a new
Billboard in the ground

2770
02:04:30,760 --> 02:04:32,720
because you don't
allow new billboards.

2771
02:04:32,720 --> 02:04:38,740
It's tricky because there's the
supply that's here is locked.

2772
02:04:38,740 --> 02:04:40,110
You can't do anything.

2773
02:04:40,110 --> 02:04:41,820
You can't add, you
can't take away.

2774
02:04:41,820 --> 02:04:45,190
So you're asking us to take
away in exchange for a digital.

2775
02:04:45,190 --> 02:04:46,980
In some respects.

2776
02:04:46,980 --> 02:04:49,120
Yeah, it could make sense.

2777
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:53,560
But in our case, we've
got five structures.

2778
02:04:53,560 --> 02:04:56,380
Probably not because
we've got five structures

2779
02:04:56,380 --> 02:04:57,490
that are performing well.

2780
02:04:57,490 --> 02:05:00,220
We've got great landowners,
great agreements.

2781
02:05:00,220 --> 02:05:01,100
It doesn't make sense.

2782
02:05:01,100 --> 02:05:04,090
But if I had 200 structures.

2783
02:05:04,090 --> 02:05:07,930
And I had of the 230 of them
that were just kind of snoozers

2784
02:05:07,930 --> 02:05:10,720
and I didn't really like them
or the leases weren't that great

2785
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:14,650
or the structure was being
obstructed by an apartment

2786
02:05:14,650 --> 02:05:17,560
building road expansion, you
know, all the other factors

2787
02:05:17,560 --> 02:05:19,740
say, OK, yeah, I think I
could negotiate with the city

2788
02:05:19,740 --> 02:05:21,180
and say, OK.

2789
02:05:21,180 --> 02:05:24,180
Give you these for
this sure makes sense.

2790
02:05:24,180 --> 02:05:27,610
And so I think to answer
your question of would you.

2791
02:05:27,610 --> 02:05:30,210
There are so many factors
to it, because what's

2792
02:05:30,210 --> 02:05:33,720
valuable to us on the
side is the relationship

2793
02:05:33,720 --> 02:05:36,390
and a location that is
aesthetically pleasing,

2794
02:05:36,390 --> 02:05:38,400
that has the eyes.

2795
02:05:38,400 --> 02:05:42,650
And you know, that's how
we grow our business.

2796
02:05:42,650 --> 02:05:48,750


2797
02:05:48,750 --> 02:05:49,810
So at the moment.

2798
02:05:49,810 --> 02:05:51,450
And I think that would be Yeah.

2799
02:05:51,450 --> 02:05:55,020
One thought I'd add is
looking at the total numbers

2800
02:05:55,020 --> 02:05:58,290
of billboards you have in your
city that's going to give you

2801
02:05:58,290 --> 02:06:00,390
a perspective of who
you'll be negotiating

2802
02:06:00,390 --> 02:06:02,890
with because we've got five.

2803
02:06:02,890 --> 02:06:05,700
There's two other there's two
other larger groups than us,

2804
02:06:05,700 --> 02:06:06,310
right?

2805
02:06:06,310 --> 02:06:11,220
And so exchanging 5 to 1,
getting rid of all of ours

2806
02:06:11,220 --> 02:06:13,440
versus someone that's got 100.

2807
02:06:13,440 --> 02:06:14,760
Well, then I
understand that issue

2808
02:06:14,760 --> 02:06:17,580
with competition kind of thing.

2809
02:06:17,580 --> 02:06:18,300
Did you want?

2810
02:06:18,300 --> 02:06:19,120
Need more information?

2811
02:06:19,120 --> 02:06:20,040
Are we out of time?

2812
02:06:20,040 --> 02:06:20,960
No, go ahead.

2813
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:22,520
Yeah, it's property rights.

2814
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:23,590
Straight property rights.

2815
02:06:23,590 --> 02:06:25,590
And if we were talking
about we hate walgreens,

2816
02:06:25,590 --> 02:06:27,630
what would Walgreens be saying?

2817
02:06:27,630 --> 02:06:29,470
You know, we hate
tattoo parlors.

2818
02:06:29,470 --> 02:06:31,110
Get rid of them.

2819
02:06:31,110 --> 02:06:33,460
OK, well, we have land.

2820
02:06:33,460 --> 02:06:34,360
We have invested.

2821
02:06:34,360 --> 02:06:39,760
We have a business, and the
cash flows are compelling.

2822
02:06:39,760 --> 02:06:45,130
What's happened as print
media, television, media.

2823
02:06:45,130 --> 02:06:47,020
Is all being squeezed.

2824
02:06:47,020 --> 02:06:47,550
Right?

2825
02:06:47,550 --> 02:06:48,910
so it's all gone online.

2826
02:06:48,910 --> 02:06:50,130
That's where all
the money's gone.

2827
02:06:50,130 --> 02:06:52,140
Our little teeny sliver
of the advertising

2828
02:06:52,140 --> 02:06:55,540
spend, which is barely see
it in the great grand scheme.

2829
02:06:55,540 --> 02:06:57,600
We're getting tons of
pressure because people are

2830
02:06:57,600 --> 02:07:00,450
looking for ways to advertise.

2831
02:07:00,450 --> 02:07:03,690
The industry now has big data.

2832
02:07:03,690 --> 02:07:06,240
So your cell phone
information, we

2833
02:07:06,240 --> 02:07:07,287
don't have facial recognition.

2834
02:07:07,287 --> 02:07:08,420
I don't know where
that came from.

2835
02:07:08,420 --> 02:07:11,110
I've never talked to anybody
identifying people that way.

2836
02:07:11,110 --> 02:07:14,360
That's in a movie
somewhere, probably, but.

2837
02:07:14,360 --> 02:07:16,050
We know who's passing by.

2838
02:07:16,050 --> 02:07:18,570
The signs and advertisers
pay per 1,000.

2839
02:07:18,570 --> 02:07:20,870
And billboards are
compelling because it's

2840
02:07:20,870 --> 02:07:27,140
$14 per thousand, 15, 16, 17
per thousand, not 35 on TV.

2841
02:07:27,140 --> 02:07:31,160
And so if I'm a business trying
to make my way and 2% more

2842
02:07:31,160 --> 02:07:32,600
revenue makes a
difference for me,

2843
02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:35,190
I'm definitely going to do
everything I can to advertise.

2844
02:07:35,190 --> 02:07:36,810
So I say harmons foods.

2845
02:07:36,810 --> 02:07:38,210
OK, how do we feel
about harmons?

2846
02:07:38,210 --> 02:07:39,410
You know, when
you're talking about,

2847
02:07:39,410 --> 02:07:41,300
hey, billboards, you're
talking about hey and harmons

2848
02:07:41,300 --> 02:07:44,300
too, because they
advertise extensively

2849
02:07:44,300 --> 02:07:46,340
and I imagine them
trying to compete

2850
02:07:46,340 --> 02:07:48,440
against Walmart and Fred
Meyer and everybody else.

2851
02:07:48,440 --> 02:07:49,440
Hard business, right?

2852
02:07:49,440 --> 02:07:52,760
My grandfather on my mom's side
was a grocer on the avenues,

2853
02:07:52,760 --> 02:07:54,450
a little teeny store
his whole life.

2854
02:07:54,450 --> 02:07:55,700
That's all he did.

2855
02:07:55,700 --> 02:07:57,560
Think about Harmon's plight.

2856
02:07:57,560 --> 02:07:59,100
How do we feel about harmon's?

2857
02:07:59,100 --> 02:08:01,970
They are paying immense
amounts of money

2858
02:08:01,970 --> 02:08:06,980
to advertise digitally,
mostly because it makes sense

2859
02:08:06,980 --> 02:08:08,610
and there's value there.

2860
02:08:08,610 --> 02:08:12,740
Ken foster, University of
Utah professor, communications

2861
02:08:12,740 --> 02:08:15,000
department, did a survey.

2862
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:16,970
We get in our circles
and I heard all this,

2863
02:08:16,970 --> 02:08:18,510
you know, we've
heard it before, too.

2864
02:08:18,510 --> 02:08:21,060
And I don't dismiss any of
your feelings about science.

2865
02:08:21,060 --> 02:08:21,870
I got it.

2866
02:08:21,870 --> 02:08:23,100
I understand it.

2867
02:08:23,100 --> 02:08:24,390
People hate Barnes.

2868
02:08:24,390 --> 02:08:26,390
People hate power poles.

2869
02:08:26,390 --> 02:08:29,850
We all have my neighbor
painted his house green.

2870
02:08:29,850 --> 02:08:30,930
I don't like green homes.

2871
02:08:30,930 --> 02:08:33,140
And then he made his roof green.

2872
02:08:33,140 --> 02:08:35,330
Ken foster did this study.

2873
02:08:35,330 --> 02:08:36,450
It's been about 10 years ago.

2874
02:08:36,450 --> 02:08:37,550
12 years ago.

2875
02:08:37,550 --> 02:08:39,150
What do you think about science?

2876
02:08:39,150 --> 02:08:44,170
And it was about
ten, 12% hated him.

2877
02:08:44,170 --> 02:08:46,510
So from that study,
the University of Utah,

2878
02:08:46,510 --> 02:08:49,120
we know there's a segment
of the population that

2879
02:08:49,120 --> 02:08:51,260
just hates signs vehemently.

2880
02:08:51,260 --> 02:08:53,540
And you've heard it tonight.

2881
02:08:53,540 --> 02:08:55,600
The rest of the
people are actually

2882
02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:57,730
rather interested
in them and they're

2883
02:08:57,730 --> 02:09:01,010
actually curious about them
and they like looking at them.

2884
02:09:01,010 --> 02:09:04,150
And even though the
glance is one second,

2885
02:09:04,150 --> 02:09:07,210
the branding makes a big
difference on someone's

2886
02:09:07,210 --> 02:09:11,050
decisions, amazingly so
advertising does work,

2887
02:09:11,050 --> 02:09:13,130
and we're grateful for the
free enterprise system.

2888
02:09:13,130 --> 02:09:14,530
We're grateful for
property rights,

2889
02:09:14,530 --> 02:09:15,920
we're grateful to
be in business.

2890
02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:18,310
And we know because I don't
have a Billboard in my backyard

2891
02:09:18,310 --> 02:09:19,040
either.

2892
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:22,240
There's residential zones
and there's commercial zones.

2893
02:09:22,240 --> 02:09:25,070
Commercial zones are there
for a purpose, right?

2894
02:09:25,070 --> 02:09:27,680
Let's let commercial
zones be commercial zones.

2895
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:30,650
Let's let residential
zones be residential zones.

2896
02:09:30,650 --> 02:09:31,150
Thank you.

2897
02:09:31,150 --> 02:09:32,050
Thank you.

2898
02:09:32,050 --> 02:09:32,950
Thank you.

2899
02:09:32,950 --> 02:09:33,620
Thank you.

2900
02:09:33,620 --> 02:09:34,940
That was helpful.

2901
02:09:34,940 --> 02:09:37,960
So I think the only other
discussion comment I have is

2902
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:40,420
I kind of do agree and I
actually talked, I think

2903
02:09:40,420 --> 02:09:43,600
with Francis about this, that.

2904
02:09:43,600 --> 02:09:46,510
Do we really need
them all in if we're

2905
02:09:46,510 --> 02:09:48,510
going to do district signs?

2906
02:09:48,510 --> 02:09:53,260
I mean, I would like to have
a proposal to put a district

2907
02:09:53,260 --> 02:09:57,670
sign in every district and
not just in the city center

2908
02:09:57,670 --> 02:10:00,940
and let the small
businesses, because it's

2909
02:10:00,940 --> 02:10:02,860
my understanding
that electronic signs

2910
02:10:02,860 --> 02:10:04,670
actually help small businesses.

2911
02:10:04,670 --> 02:10:08,620
Correct because it's
less expensive than doing

2912
02:10:08,620 --> 02:10:11,020
the big Billboard.

2913
02:10:11,020 --> 02:10:12,080
So is there.

2914
02:10:12,080 --> 02:10:16,760
If we're going to do it, do
we do some kind of spread out?

2915
02:10:16,760 --> 02:10:20,090
And I, I live up near
Mount Olympus, too.

2916
02:10:20,090 --> 02:10:23,110
But I mean, fair is fair.

2917
02:10:23,110 --> 02:10:25,960
You know, if we're
going to put them up,

2918
02:10:25,960 --> 02:10:30,550
do we spread them out
across the whole city?

2919
02:10:30,550 --> 02:10:33,140
I think that could
be something that.

2920
02:10:33,140 --> 02:10:35,980
You know it's outside
of the scope for this.

2921
02:10:35,980 --> 02:10:38,400
But it's a valid point
for down the road

2922
02:10:38,400 --> 02:10:42,000
if we want to
reduce signs, maybe

2923
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:44,850
there is an appetite for that.

2924
02:10:44,850 --> 02:10:48,160
I've got a few thoughts and
I splitting in two parts.

2925
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:49,540
I really do like
all the changes.

2926
02:10:49,540 --> 02:10:51,090
And Thank you Francis.

2927
02:10:51,090 --> 02:10:53,520
On the excluding
the district signs

2928
02:10:53,520 --> 02:10:54,760
all the different changes.

2929
02:10:54,760 --> 02:10:55,880
I mean.

2930
02:10:55,880 --> 02:10:57,990
Everything got.

2931
02:10:57,990 --> 02:11:03,060
That clarified.

2932
02:11:03,060 --> 02:11:06,350
In in your changes
I think I had.

2933
02:11:06,350 --> 02:11:09,580


2934
02:11:09,580 --> 02:11:12,610
The one thing that I was looking
at, though, and this I think,

2935
02:11:12,610 --> 02:11:14,670
was from the USCIS letter.

2936
02:11:14,670 --> 02:11:17,430


2937
02:11:17,430 --> 02:11:19,770
Where I thought in
the last meeting

2938
02:11:19,770 --> 02:11:21,690
we talked about that
pure white would

2939
02:11:21,690 --> 02:11:24,090
be able to be used for logos.

2940
02:11:24,090 --> 02:11:28,540
Was that accurate or
was I misremembering?

2941
02:11:28,540 --> 02:11:30,930
That's not really
a word, but my.

2942
02:11:30,930 --> 02:11:31,660
Give me a minute.

2943
02:11:31,660 --> 02:11:35,350
I see.

2944
02:11:35,350 --> 02:11:36,980
We would love to redraft that.

2945
02:11:36,980 --> 02:11:43,310


2946
02:11:43,310 --> 02:11:46,880
What's we would love.

2947
02:11:46,880 --> 02:11:47,380
I'll talk.

2948
02:11:47,380 --> 02:11:48,447
I'll talk with you off the line.

2949
02:11:48,447 --> 02:12:07,850


2950
02:12:07,850 --> 02:12:08,910
Yeah OK.

2951
02:12:08,910 --> 02:12:18,870
So under on page 1868
120d no, cc3b, I think.

2952
02:12:18,870 --> 02:12:20,750
C3b Yeah.

2953
02:12:20,750 --> 02:12:23,270
Internally illuminated signs
show you semi-opaque materials

2954
02:12:23,270 --> 02:12:24,920
for signed copies
such that light

2955
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:29,240
emanating emanating
from the sign

2956
02:12:29,240 --> 02:12:30,630
is diffuse,
transparent or clear.

2957
02:12:30,630 --> 02:12:32,490
Materials are not
allowed for signed copy.

2958
02:12:32,490 --> 02:12:34,280
Pure white material
pure white materials

2959
02:12:34,280 --> 02:12:37,820
are prohibited for non copy.

2960
02:12:37,820 --> 02:12:41,430
Or let's see.

2961
02:12:41,430 --> 02:12:43,490
Pure white materials are
prohibited for non copier logo

2962
02:12:43,490 --> 02:12:46,403
portions of the sign e.g.
backgrounds of graphics

2963
02:12:46,403 --> 02:12:47,570
and sign backgrounds
should be made

2964
02:12:47,570 --> 02:12:49,623
of completely opaque materials.

2965
02:12:49,623 --> 02:12:51,090
I think there's a problem
with the sentence.

2966
02:12:51,090 --> 02:12:53,670
The intention is the
opposite that you can use.

2967
02:12:53,670 --> 02:12:58,400
Yeah that you can use pure
white materials for the wording

2968
02:12:58,400 --> 02:12:59,700
and logo a sign.

2969
02:12:59,700 --> 02:13:02,900
OK and that's what I just
wanted to clarify because I saw

2970
02:13:02,900 --> 02:13:06,620
that the prohibition, I was
thinking that we were agreeable

2971
02:13:06,620 --> 02:13:09,950
for the logo to be able
to be represented with,

2972
02:13:09,950 --> 02:13:11,760
with a pure white.

2973
02:13:11,760 --> 02:13:14,260
So I just wanted.

2974
02:13:14,260 --> 02:13:16,070
That's that's the intention.

2975
02:13:16,070 --> 02:13:18,830
So OK, I'm making a
note of all of these.

2976
02:13:18,830 --> 02:13:21,350
So we can so that you can craft
a motion when you're ready.

2977
02:13:21,350 --> 02:13:26,810
Yeah um, that's all I had for.

2978
02:13:26,810 --> 02:13:28,990
And then my other comment
earlier about maybe

2979
02:13:28,990 --> 02:13:35,920
just looking at so
here's, so here's

2980
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:37,095
what I have by way of notes.

2981
02:13:37,095 --> 02:13:39,710


2982
02:13:39,710 --> 02:13:41,580
Clarify Yep.

2983
02:13:41,580 --> 02:13:44,610
Yep the duration of
temporary signs and.

2984
02:13:44,610 --> 02:13:49,970
Yeah the parks commissioners
about the district signed.

2985
02:13:49,970 --> 02:13:54,500
And I appreciate the four
options, but I'm looking at.

2986
02:13:54,500 --> 02:13:57,830
Well, I'd mentioned last
meeting was these are all

2987
02:13:57,830 --> 02:13:59,480
looking, you know,
1 to 3 are looking

2988
02:13:59,480 --> 02:14:02,060
at the exchange agreement.

2989
02:14:02,060 --> 02:14:03,600
But I think there's
another option.

2990
02:14:03,600 --> 02:14:05,180
And that's just.

2991
02:14:05,180 --> 02:14:11,870
Have the have a smaller district
sign that's 100% of 100%

2992
02:14:11,870 --> 02:14:14,070
of the turns are Mill Creek.

2993
02:14:14,070 --> 02:14:16,070
And I think if you
had a smaller sign

2994
02:14:16,070 --> 02:14:20,180
and I use that example,
last month about, you know,

2995
02:14:20,180 --> 02:14:22,360
the Middle East.

2996
02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:24,470
East high.

2997
02:14:24,470 --> 02:14:26,830
You know, there.

2998
02:14:26,830 --> 02:14:29,380
A sign like, you know, not
to look just like this,

2999
02:14:29,380 --> 02:14:33,460
but it's a smaller
sign face than 288ft

3000
02:14:33,460 --> 02:14:36,910
Or it could be like, you
know, the Christian academy,

3001
02:14:36,910 --> 02:14:40,100
they've got their sign there.

3002
02:14:40,100 --> 02:14:41,560
And we've seen them
around, you know,

3003
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:42,860
credit unions and
stuff happened.

3004
02:14:42,860 --> 02:14:45,840
So I'm not opposed to.

3005
02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:53,850
Digital for if it were smaller
and just for Mill Creek and.

3006
02:14:53,850 --> 02:14:55,830
I feel like some of it is.

3007
02:14:55,830 --> 02:14:58,470
Perhaps the cost, because I
know this agreement would be,

3008
02:14:58,470 --> 02:15:01,410
you know, advertiser,
potentially

3009
02:15:01,410 --> 02:15:05,660
Reagan would pay for it,
install it and all of that.

3010
02:15:05,660 --> 02:15:09,200
And while that may
seem advantageous,

3011
02:15:09,200 --> 02:15:12,210
I look at the whole concept
of building the city center.

3012
02:15:12,210 --> 02:15:16,790
We you know, we had
district signs in there.

3013
02:15:16,790 --> 02:15:18,620
I think they were called
Monument signs initially,

3014
02:15:18,620 --> 02:15:20,010
but from the beginning.

3015
02:15:20,010 --> 02:15:21,510
So we knew there was
going to be signs there.

3016
02:15:21,510 --> 02:15:22,710
So I think that had
to be considered

3017
02:15:22,710 --> 02:15:23,580
in the construction cost.

3018
02:15:23,580 --> 02:15:26,390
So I'm still looking at let's
put signs on both sides,

3019
02:15:26,390 --> 02:15:29,070
but let's have them be smaller.

3020
02:15:29,070 --> 02:15:31,910
And let's have them
be 100% for Mill Creek

3021
02:15:31,910 --> 02:15:36,620
and let's do option for
not do but but let's

3022
02:15:36,620 --> 02:15:38,160
not do nothing at all.

3023
02:15:38,160 --> 02:15:39,530
And don't have
any district signs

3024
02:15:39,530 --> 02:15:40,970
like no let's still
have a district sign

3025
02:15:40,970 --> 02:15:41,910
and I'm not opposed.

3026
02:15:41,910 --> 02:15:45,260
If it were a small digital
sign, I don't think the cost

3027
02:15:45,260 --> 02:15:46,260
would be extremely expensive.

3028
02:15:46,260 --> 02:15:48,080
I don't think East
High's spending hundreds

3029
02:15:48,080 --> 02:15:49,220
of thousands of dollars.

3030
02:15:49,220 --> 02:15:51,440
Summit Christian Academy
or the credit unions

3031
02:15:51,440 --> 02:15:54,057
are spending lots
of money for this.

3032
02:15:54,057 --> 02:15:54,990
I don't think it's feasible.

3033
02:15:54,990 --> 02:15:58,430
But, you know, having 100% of
the turns instead of only 40%

3034
02:15:58,430 --> 02:16:01,983
on a large sign, if you have
100% on the smaller sign,

3035
02:16:01,983 --> 02:16:03,650
you're still I think you're
going to have a larger

3036
02:16:03,650 --> 02:16:07,050
impact for your community
events because you have

3037
02:16:07,050 --> 02:16:10,130
100% of the rotations on there.

3038
02:16:10,130 --> 02:16:12,230
I also work in
advertising, have done it.

3039
02:16:12,230 --> 02:16:13,840
Since the 90s.

3040
02:16:13,840 --> 02:16:17,470
And I look at this as
you know, you could

3041
02:16:17,470 --> 02:16:20,350
have a large sign with
a horrible graphic,

3042
02:16:20,350 --> 02:16:21,380
a horrible messaging.

3043
02:16:21,380 --> 02:16:22,690
It's not necessarily the size.

3044
02:16:22,690 --> 02:16:26,990
Size can matter to a point.

3045
02:16:26,990 --> 02:16:30,513
Like if you're on a freeway,
having a 120 square foot

3046
02:16:30,513 --> 02:16:32,080
sign is not going to work
because of the speeds

3047
02:16:32,080 --> 02:16:33,680
of the cars and the traffic.

3048
02:16:33,680 --> 02:16:37,570
So that's why they
have the larger signs.

3049
02:16:37,570 --> 02:16:39,530
But I look, I make
the comparison.

3050
02:16:39,530 --> 02:16:41,410
Let's say you're at
the bar and you know,

3051
02:16:41,410 --> 02:16:44,709
you're watching the game
on a 72 inch screen TV

3052
02:16:44,709 --> 02:16:47,379
versus a 48 inch screen
TV because you're

3053
02:16:47,379 --> 02:16:48,530
sitting a little bit closer.

3054
02:16:48,530 --> 02:16:50,639
I don't think you're.

3055
02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:54,969
You know, your enjoyment
of watching that game

3056
02:16:54,969 --> 02:16:56,540
isn't drastically reduced.

3057
02:16:56,540 --> 02:16:58,430
You're still getting the
you're still seeing the action.

3058
02:16:58,430 --> 02:16:59,719
You're still getting
what's going on.

3059
02:16:59,719 --> 02:17:01,780
Even though it's on
a smaller screen.

3060
02:17:01,780 --> 02:17:03,280
And because the
speeds are lower here,

3061
02:17:03,280 --> 02:17:04,850
I don't think we
need this large sign.

3062
02:17:04,850 --> 02:17:08,620
So I'm in favor of
recommending, recommending

3063
02:17:08,620 --> 02:17:11,059
to the city council, like we'll
look at just doing our own.

3064
02:17:11,059 --> 02:17:12,620
Let's not.

3065
02:17:12,620 --> 02:17:16,790
You know, it could be an
option to look at reducing

3066
02:17:16,790 --> 02:17:19,233
square footage of
billboards in the city,

3067
02:17:19,233 --> 02:17:20,600
but I don't think
there's a pressing need

3068
02:17:20,600 --> 02:17:22,469
to do that right now.

3069
02:17:22,469 --> 02:17:24,440
Let's go do the.

3070
02:17:24,440 --> 02:17:25,680
Let's go to our district signs.

3071
02:17:25,680 --> 02:17:28,240
Let's even have it be,
you know, maybe 100 square

3072
02:17:28,240 --> 02:17:30,360
foot digital sign as well.

3073
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:33,709
And later on, if
we want to strike

3074
02:17:33,709 --> 02:17:36,559
a deal with an
outdoor advertiser

3075
02:17:36,559 --> 02:17:38,570
to do like what you
suggested, you know,

3076
02:17:38,570 --> 02:17:40,860
maybe we figure out which
ones remove something else.

3077
02:17:40,860 --> 02:17:44,030
But I don't think this is our
only opportunity to reduce

3078
02:17:44,030 --> 02:17:47,520
billboards through an exchange.

3079
02:17:47,520 --> 02:17:51,540
So just along those lines.

3080
02:17:51,540 --> 02:17:54,120
When I was looking at this
and thinking about this,

3081
02:17:54,120 --> 02:17:59,549
I was thinking of big
comparison between 33rd and 39th

3082
02:17:59,549 --> 02:18:03,330
and 39th doesn't have any
public as far as I mean,

3083
02:18:03,330 --> 02:18:06,580
above, let's say 23rd any, you
know, advertising billboards.

3084
02:18:06,580 --> 02:18:08,520
But they do have the
banners for the high school

3085
02:18:08,520 --> 02:18:10,469
and that's local
and it looks good

3086
02:18:10,469 --> 02:18:11,980
and no one complains about that.

3087
02:18:11,980 --> 02:18:15,070
And it's small and it's
but it's very community.

3088
02:18:15,070 --> 02:18:17,730
I mean, that and it looks good.

3089
02:18:17,730 --> 02:18:19,799
Yeah, that's kind
of my feeling too,

3090
02:18:19,799 --> 02:18:21,900
is even though there
would be some signage,

3091
02:18:21,900 --> 02:18:25,440
I think some signage is
appropriate for our city

3092
02:18:25,440 --> 02:18:27,459
center.

3093
02:18:27,459 --> 02:18:31,120
But I feel like it reduces the
it's not it doesn't feel so

3094
02:18:31,120 --> 02:18:33,580
cheap like we as a
city sold out to like,

3095
02:18:33,580 --> 02:18:37,570
well, we had to make this
deal because we saved a couple

3096
02:18:37,570 --> 02:18:38,950
hundred thousand
dollars on Reagan

3097
02:18:38,950 --> 02:18:40,959
putting them in because
we wouldn't have to know,

3098
02:18:40,959 --> 02:18:44,070
I don't think I wouldn't want
the city to erect a two 188

3099
02:18:44,070 --> 02:18:46,539
square foot sign
in the messages.

3100
02:18:46,539 --> 02:18:48,139
You know, it would be the
same as this one here.

3101
02:18:48,139 --> 02:18:50,740
I don't think that's
necessary or appropriate.

3102
02:18:50,740 --> 02:18:56,020
So I'm looking at a smaller sign
like we had originally thought

3103
02:18:56,020 --> 02:18:59,559
about when we looked at
the city center plans,

3104
02:18:59,559 --> 02:19:02,190
you know, five, six years ago.

3105
02:19:02,190 --> 02:19:05,500
Um, so those are
my thoughts on it.

3106
02:19:05,500 --> 02:19:10,590


3107
02:19:10,590 --> 02:19:11,500
Well, they probably.

3108
02:19:11,500 --> 02:19:14,610
I would look at it
just for construction.

3109
02:19:14,610 --> 02:19:16,389
Yeah, I've looked at
it as just the same.

3110
02:19:16,389 --> 02:19:19,020
As for building anything
else, you know, like the sign

3111
02:19:19,020 --> 02:19:20,219
that we put on
Mill Creek common,

3112
02:19:20,219 --> 02:19:23,650
you know, that went out to bid
to somebody to put up there?

3113
02:19:23,650 --> 02:19:26,530
Maybe, but I don't know.

3114
02:19:26,530 --> 02:19:30,920
Yeah Yeah.

3115
02:19:30,920 --> 02:19:33,750
Yeah so I don't
know how we I mean,

3116
02:19:33,750 --> 02:19:35,320
we can continue
the conversation.

3117
02:19:35,320 --> 02:19:37,889
I, I don't know if I
don't feel like we have

3118
02:19:37,889 --> 02:19:39,750
an appetite for a continuance.

3119
02:19:39,750 --> 02:19:41,010
I think we have
enough information

3120
02:19:41,010 --> 02:19:42,250
to make a recommendation.

3121
02:19:42,250 --> 02:19:44,940
But it.

3122
02:19:44,940 --> 02:19:46,430
We and Dwayne.

3123
02:19:46,430 --> 02:19:47,330
I don't want to ignore you.

3124
02:19:47,330 --> 02:19:49,140
We've had a conversation now.

3125
02:19:49,140 --> 02:19:51,057
Do you have any
other thoughts you

3126
02:19:51,057 --> 02:19:52,290
want to bring up
since you went first

3127
02:19:52,290 --> 02:19:54,110
and you've heard a lot
of information now?

3128
02:19:54,110 --> 02:20:01,270


3129
02:20:01,270 --> 02:20:04,300
And there should be I mean,
that's what we're here for,

3130
02:20:04,300 --> 02:20:06,810
is to hear different viewpoints.

3131
02:20:06,810 --> 02:20:10,610
Yeah we had several
commissioners looking at

3132
02:20:10,610 --> 02:20:12,860
just let's go with option four.

3133
02:20:12,860 --> 02:20:16,050
We have a prefer an option to.

3134
02:20:16,050 --> 02:20:18,890
Steve, I don't know if you
had a specific number option

3135
02:20:18,890 --> 02:20:20,333
or if yours was
kind of a hybrid.

3136
02:20:20,333 --> 02:20:21,500
And we can when we
make the motion,

3137
02:20:21,500 --> 02:20:25,330
we can use the one, two, 3 as.

3138
02:20:25,330 --> 02:20:26,980
There's a place to
start if we want,

3139
02:20:26,980 --> 02:20:30,540
and then modify it from there.

3140
02:20:30,540 --> 02:20:31,630
Or one, two.

3141
02:20:31,630 --> 02:20:32,180
One, two, four.

3142
02:20:32,180 --> 02:20:40,840


3143
02:20:40,840 --> 02:20:43,250
well, you makes some
good points and.

3144
02:20:43,250 --> 02:20:46,270


3145
02:20:46,270 --> 02:20:50,800
And why do we need three
large digital signs

3146
02:20:50,800 --> 02:20:53,410
around their mean that
can still be like the one

3147
02:20:53,410 --> 02:20:54,950
if it was out there.

3148
02:20:54,950 --> 02:20:56,810
It still have.

3149
02:20:56,810 --> 02:20:59,830
Just like, I don't know.

3150
02:20:59,830 --> 02:21:01,860
Well, doesn't necessarily
have to be a monument sign,

3151
02:21:01,860 --> 02:21:05,580
but it has to be a sign
that would still scroll

3152
02:21:05,580 --> 02:21:08,470
or have some digital to it.

3153
02:21:08,470 --> 02:21:11,040
But it's just for
Mill Creek city

3154
02:21:11,040 --> 02:21:12,580
and it's something smaller.

3155
02:21:12,580 --> 02:21:15,880
And we do it only for.

3156
02:21:15,880 --> 02:21:16,830
Advertising for.

3157
02:21:16,830 --> 02:21:21,380


3158
02:21:21,380 --> 02:21:24,880
I mean, I guess you could do
it for any events or anything.

3159
02:21:24,880 --> 02:21:26,760
Throughout Mill
Creek city two or.

3160
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:29,020
Or just what happens
to the commons?

3161
02:21:29,020 --> 02:21:31,290
Or would there be
advertising for businesses

3162
02:21:31,290 --> 02:21:36,080
in the Commons area here on.

3163
02:21:36,080 --> 02:21:37,370
I don't know.

3164
02:21:37,370 --> 02:21:41,360
I guess my thought was just
keep it within the city.

3165
02:21:41,360 --> 02:21:44,320
So I'm not a personally
I'm not opposed

3166
02:21:44,320 --> 02:21:47,140
if we wanted to advertise the.

3167
02:21:47,140 --> 02:21:50,500
It almost seems like we need
to make a recommendation

3168
02:21:50,500 --> 02:21:53,090
on what happens here.

3169
02:21:53,090 --> 02:21:55,490
And then another
recommendation on what

3170
02:21:55,490 --> 02:22:00,200
happens as far as our whole
entire sign ordinance and.

3171
02:22:00,200 --> 02:22:02,740
A whole entire sign
ordinance, I think.

3172
02:22:02,740 --> 02:22:05,690
Gentleman from.

3173
02:22:05,690 --> 02:22:08,520
Maybe there's a few things
we should look at there and.

3174
02:22:08,520 --> 02:22:12,780


3175
02:22:12,780 --> 02:22:14,090
You know, listen to their.

3176
02:22:14,090 --> 02:22:16,980


3177
02:22:16,980 --> 02:22:18,870
Ideas along with Reagan's ideas.

3178
02:22:18,870 --> 02:22:20,280
Maybe we've already
had stuff from Reagan

3179
02:22:20,280 --> 02:22:22,740
or some of the other large
I don't know who all does

3180
02:22:22,740 --> 02:22:25,230
signs here with Saunders or.

3181
02:22:25,230 --> 02:22:26,165
Here in the city, but.

3182
02:22:26,165 --> 02:22:30,000


3183
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:34,350
to take some of their points
and maybe look further at this.

3184
02:22:34,350 --> 02:22:36,720
The whole overall sign
ordinance, but at least

3185
02:22:36,720 --> 02:22:38,320
make a recommendation on.

3186
02:22:38,320 --> 02:22:39,320
Think should happen here.

3187
02:22:39,320 --> 02:22:43,420


3188
02:22:43,420 --> 02:22:44,980
Yeah, that's what I think.

3189
02:22:44,980 --> 02:22:46,750
Yeah, because I know
we're looking at,

3190
02:22:46,750 --> 02:22:48,040
you know, The
changes proposed are

3191
02:22:48,040 --> 02:22:50,140
really with the district signs.

3192
02:22:50,140 --> 02:22:52,960
Um, you know, and should they.

3193
02:22:52,960 --> 02:22:54,960
What should we do about the.

3194
02:22:54,960 --> 02:22:57,840
What changes, if any, should
we make for the sign ordinance?

3195
02:22:57,840 --> 02:22:59,590
Ordinance regarding
the district signs?

3196
02:22:59,590 --> 02:23:02,460
And then the other part is,
of course, the other weeks

3197
02:23:02,460 --> 02:23:04,000
we have to our sign ordinance.

3198
02:23:04,000 --> 02:23:05,510
I still think we should look.

3199
02:23:05,510 --> 02:23:11,090
Change somehow because and
only I mean only the sign

3200
02:23:11,090 --> 02:23:12,510
companies are going to.

3201
02:23:12,510 --> 02:23:15,010
It's got to be something.

3202
02:23:15,010 --> 02:23:18,620
It's the benefits of them.

3203
02:23:18,620 --> 02:23:19,120
I mean.

3204
02:23:19,120 --> 02:23:20,520
I mean, that's what
we're in the business

3205
02:23:20,520 --> 02:23:23,740
just like Walgreens is
in the business to be.

3206
02:23:23,740 --> 02:23:25,030
They're in the same business.

3207
02:23:25,030 --> 02:23:28,530
So it has to be something
that would still be

3208
02:23:28,530 --> 02:23:30,470
workable for any sign company.

3209
02:23:30,470 --> 02:23:34,160


3210
02:23:34,160 --> 02:23:43,050
So I'm just trying to think
about how we move this forward.

3211
02:23:43,050 --> 02:23:48,180
And if we called
Sean's proposal five.

3212
02:23:48,180 --> 02:23:48,680
It really?

3213
02:23:48,680 --> 02:23:49,180
It is.

3214
02:23:49,180 --> 02:23:53,700


3215
02:23:53,700 --> 02:23:55,080
helpful for us to pull.

3216
02:23:55,080 --> 02:23:59,010
Just choose a number
right now and see where.

3217
02:23:59,010 --> 02:24:02,940
I mean, I think yours has.

3218
02:24:02,940 --> 02:24:04,080
Midst to it.

3219
02:24:04,080 --> 02:24:06,600
I don't know if we
can say we have.

3220
02:24:06,600 --> 02:24:10,400
This choice, but our
backup is this I don't know

3221
02:24:10,400 --> 02:24:13,440
what we can do to give more.

3222
02:24:13,440 --> 02:24:16,050
Or if it would be helpful
if we each just said

3223
02:24:16,050 --> 02:24:19,830
what our first choice number is
and then we're taking the we're

3224
02:24:19,830 --> 02:24:21,720
not taking the
official vote, but just

3225
02:24:21,720 --> 02:24:23,170
to know where people are and.

3226
02:24:23,170 --> 02:24:26,350


3227
02:24:26,350 --> 02:24:27,993
How we can craft something.

3228
02:24:27,993 --> 02:24:31,240


3229
02:24:31,240 --> 02:24:33,090
I'm looking at the
votes, and I'm.

3230
02:24:33,090 --> 02:24:33,740
Might be for.

3231
02:24:33,740 --> 02:24:36,600


3232
02:24:36,600 --> 02:24:38,280
And then that would
then help craft

3233
02:24:38,280 --> 02:24:41,060
like where the motion goes.

3234
02:24:41,060 --> 02:24:41,760
You could do that.

3235
02:24:41,760 --> 02:24:44,185
Or if you want to make a motion,
we can see where that goes.

3236
02:24:44,185 --> 02:24:46,740


3237
02:24:46,740 --> 02:24:49,270
But my feeling is if you
want to do a straw poll.

3238
02:24:49,270 --> 02:24:50,770
Yeah, well, I'm right.

3239
02:24:50,770 --> 02:24:54,330
I'm for that.

3240
02:24:54,330 --> 02:24:56,700
I see merits in 3 and 5.

3241
02:24:56,700 --> 02:24:59,500
So what do I do with that?

3242
02:24:59,500 --> 02:25:00,890
Oh for five.

3243
02:25:00,890 --> 02:25:02,920
I think we've achieved five.

3244
02:25:02,920 --> 02:25:05,110
I think it's sitting
right out here

3245
02:25:05,110 --> 02:25:07,900
and I think that
adding additional one

3246
02:25:07,900 --> 02:25:11,020
doesn't accomplish anything.

3247
02:25:11,020 --> 02:25:13,810
I think I'm appreciate
the amount of advertising,

3248
02:25:13,810 --> 02:25:14,720
the numbers that we got.

3249
02:25:14,720 --> 02:25:17,730
That 40% is the city
advertising that happens here.

3250
02:25:17,730 --> 02:25:21,120
Fantastic but also it's
there with the discount

3251
02:25:21,120 --> 02:25:23,080
of helping Creek businesses.

3252
02:25:23,080 --> 02:25:27,660
So I think five, in my
opinion, is achieved.

3253
02:25:27,660 --> 02:25:31,560
So I'd go for on my Dave is
for hills where do you are

3254
02:25:31,560 --> 02:25:35,070
you still like looking at two.

3255
02:25:35,070 --> 02:25:36,990
Yeah I mean, my
preference overall would

3256
02:25:36,990 --> 02:25:39,580
be no signs like everyone else.

3257
02:25:39,580 --> 02:25:41,650
I mean, not everyone
literally, but.

3258
02:25:41,650 --> 02:25:43,270
But if we're choosing
sides and again,

3259
02:25:43,270 --> 02:25:44,920
it's hard because
we don't know what

3260
02:25:44,920 --> 02:25:46,540
that exchange agreement is.

3261
02:25:46,540 --> 02:25:49,750
If I could take down
5 billboards on 33rd

3262
02:25:49,750 --> 02:25:50,630
for another one of those.

3263
02:25:50,630 --> 02:25:51,980
Yeah, do it.

3264
02:25:51,980 --> 02:25:56,680
But if it's one for
one, probably not.

3265
02:25:56,680 --> 02:25:57,860
so in that sense, it's hard.

3266
02:25:57,860 --> 02:26:00,070
Like I said, I probably
choose to with the caveat

3267
02:26:00,070 --> 02:26:04,030
that exchange agreement
needs to be substantial.

3268
02:26:04,030 --> 02:26:06,820
I mean, it needs to
have some meat to it.

3269
02:26:06,820 --> 02:26:09,910
So that would be my preference
if I could take down AI mean,

3270
02:26:09,910 --> 02:26:12,470
if you drive up down
33rd, it's a lot of signs.

3271
02:26:12,470 --> 02:26:15,550
If you could take some
down for a smaller,

3272
02:26:15,550 --> 02:26:18,640
more aesthetically pleasing
sign, I'd love to do that.

3273
02:26:18,640 --> 02:26:21,430
Um, so it's hard without
knowing the details

3274
02:26:21,430 --> 02:26:23,840
of exchange agreement,
but that would be minus 2.

3275
02:26:23,840 --> 02:26:27,530
With that caveat, the
robust exchange and.

3276
02:26:27,530 --> 02:26:30,320


3277
02:26:30,320 --> 02:26:32,700
Feel like I'm.

3278
02:26:32,700 --> 02:26:39,510
I would do for from the
standpoint of for right now,

3279
02:26:39,510 --> 02:26:44,340
I just feel like we still don't
have enough to do or enough

3280
02:26:44,340 --> 02:26:45,550
to clarify.

3281
02:26:45,550 --> 02:26:49,020
On the other hand, I
do agree with you that

3282
02:26:49,020 --> 02:26:53,730
is there an option 5 to say
no on the district signs

3283
02:26:53,730 --> 02:26:55,830
as they've been brought to us?

3284
02:26:55,830 --> 02:27:01,180
But we recommend smaller signs.

3285
02:27:01,180 --> 02:27:03,730
And we can recommend,
if everybody

3286
02:27:03,730 --> 02:27:10,420
agrees that they only be city
owned and not advertisements.

3287
02:27:10,420 --> 02:27:13,990
Um, I kind of feel like we
should do that as one thing

3288
02:27:13,990 --> 02:27:18,290
and decide, are we letting
them do it or aren't we?

3289
02:27:18,290 --> 02:27:22,550
And then can we then make
recommendations to the city

3290
02:27:22,550 --> 02:27:25,730
council or back to
the city planners

3291
02:27:25,730 --> 02:27:28,790
to say, we want you to
look at smaller signs,

3292
02:27:28,790 --> 02:27:31,070
we want you to look
at an exchange,

3293
02:27:31,070 --> 02:27:33,110
but we just don't
have enough data yet

3294
02:27:33,110 --> 02:27:34,990
to make any of those decisions.

3295
02:27:34,990 --> 02:27:41,120
We'd like to have a what would
it be like to those four city

3296
02:27:41,120 --> 02:27:45,770
council people if we said,
each of you get one, then

3297
02:27:45,770 --> 02:27:48,390
and they have to figure
out what to do with it?

3298
02:27:48,390 --> 02:27:50,590
I mean, you know.

3299
02:27:50,590 --> 02:27:54,680
I don't know how
they feel about that.

3300
02:27:54,680 --> 02:27:56,860
Because we don't have
any representatives

3301
02:27:56,860 --> 02:27:58,430
from the city council.

3302
02:27:58,430 --> 02:28:02,290
I think we'd have to just
craft that as a recommendation

3303
02:28:02,290 --> 02:28:05,050
because if we make a
recommendation and then said,

3304
02:28:05,050 --> 02:28:09,310
but we want to see what the
exchange agreement is then.

3305
02:28:09,310 --> 02:28:10,550
Wants to make a recommendation.

3306
02:28:10,550 --> 02:28:12,160
I think it would be we
want a recommendation

3307
02:28:12,160 --> 02:28:13,400
of a really robust.

3308
02:28:13,400 --> 02:28:15,050
We have to suggest that.

3309
02:28:15,050 --> 02:28:17,690
And I'm with you, I'd
go for the 7 to 1.

3310
02:28:17,690 --> 02:28:20,950
But if we can get rid of 7
and give them a one digital,

3311
02:28:20,950 --> 02:28:23,580
I might be all about that.

3312
02:28:23,580 --> 02:28:24,903
Uh, Victoria.

3313
02:28:24,903 --> 02:28:29,050


3314
02:28:29,050 --> 02:28:30,620
Well, for you.

3315
02:28:30,620 --> 02:28:33,810
Please use your microphone.

3316
02:28:33,810 --> 02:28:36,170
The light on.

3317
02:28:36,170 --> 02:28:39,090
Yes, I support forest,
my first choice.

3318
02:28:39,090 --> 02:28:40,880
But yes, the details.

3319
02:28:40,880 --> 02:28:44,850
We got rid of all 3,300
signs and put one digital.

3320
02:28:44,850 --> 02:28:45,990
Yeah, I'm all in.

3321
02:28:45,990 --> 02:28:51,110
So what I see in what's
being suggested right now

3322
02:28:51,110 --> 02:28:53,600
is not robust enough
for me to want

3323
02:28:53,600 --> 02:28:58,250
to support one or
two and even three

3324
02:28:58,250 --> 02:29:02,570
where it would have less
visual impact on the city.

3325
02:29:02,570 --> 02:29:06,750
Again, you know, I'd
be like five, 5 to 1.

3326
02:29:06,750 --> 02:29:11,580
And I'm going to also point out
that those numbers in Kansas

3327
02:29:11,580 --> 02:29:15,060
City or Lee county, which
one it was, but they were

3328
02:29:15,060 --> 02:29:18,510
talking about how they had
had 13 billboards and they

3329
02:29:18,510 --> 02:29:19,450
went to six.

3330
02:29:19,450 --> 02:29:24,000
And I'm thinking, you know, as
a percentage of their billboards

3331
02:29:24,000 --> 02:29:24,640
in the city.

3332
02:29:24,640 --> 02:29:27,470
And as I recall,
you said that, Lee.

3333
02:29:27,470 --> 02:29:30,780
We've had only 100,000 people.

3334
02:29:30,780 --> 02:29:32,070
Well, that's the
size that we have.

3335
02:29:32,070 --> 02:29:35,570
So they're talking about a
city that has 13 billboards

3336
02:29:35,570 --> 02:29:37,260
and they're trying to reduce it.

3337
02:29:37,260 --> 02:29:41,930
I mean, they're getting rid of
50% That is so so that to me

3338
02:29:41,930 --> 02:29:45,380
that those exchange rates are
not equivalent to what we're

3339
02:29:45,380 --> 02:29:47,930
talking about when we're
talking starting at a smaller

3340
02:29:47,930 --> 02:29:50,090
city with 51 billboards.

3341
02:29:50,090 --> 02:29:53,390
So to make an impact,
I feel like it

3342
02:29:53,390 --> 02:29:55,470
needs to be much more robust.

3343
02:29:55,470 --> 02:29:59,630
So given that what I'm seeing
presented is not strong enough,

3344
02:29:59,630 --> 02:30:00,990
I would go with.

3345
02:30:00,990 --> 02:30:03,920
For Thank you.

3346
02:30:03,920 --> 02:30:11,150
Steve I will go along with four.

3347
02:30:11,150 --> 02:30:17,230
However So I just want
to know the Billboard

3348
02:30:17,230 --> 02:30:20,180
that's out out here now.

3349
02:30:20,180 --> 02:30:22,600
Was there an exchange
on that one at all?

3350
02:30:22,600 --> 02:30:24,230
Yes OK.

3351
02:30:24,230 --> 02:30:28,930
Because there was the
removal of an existing sign

3352
02:30:28,930 --> 02:30:30,840
that was there.

3353
02:30:30,840 --> 02:30:32,250
Uh, plus.

3354
02:30:32,250 --> 02:30:38,220
Plus 924ft of vested rights
of billboards that Reagan

3355
02:30:38,220 --> 02:30:39,440
had previously removed.

3356
02:30:39,440 --> 02:30:42,060
We have a Billboard
bank concept.

3357
02:30:42,060 --> 02:30:44,010
One of those signs
was actually over

3358
02:30:44,010 --> 02:30:47,250
here on the corner of by
the check cashing business,

3359
02:30:47,250 --> 02:30:47,980
I believe.

3360
02:30:47,980 --> 02:30:50,460
And then there was another
sign that was down the road,

3361
02:30:50,460 --> 02:30:52,210
and they were both
kind of 30 sheet signs.

3362
02:30:52,210 --> 02:30:52,810
I don't remember.

3363
02:30:52,810 --> 02:30:56,310
It goes back a long time, but
they had bank square footage

3364
02:30:56,310 --> 02:30:57,930
that we threw in.

3365
02:30:57,930 --> 02:31:00,030
They surrendered the rights to.

3366
02:31:00,030 --> 02:31:01,210
So that's why I wouldn't mind.

3367
02:31:01,210 --> 02:31:03,870
3 with the option that
we try to get a better

3368
02:31:03,870 --> 02:31:07,660
deal for the one on 1,300 East.

3369
02:31:07,660 --> 02:31:12,400
Option three or 4, I think
initially you said for.

3370
02:31:12,400 --> 02:31:15,560
I'm not sure which
option it was, but we're.

3371
02:31:15,560 --> 02:31:17,750
Is one Billboard and 4.

3372
02:31:17,750 --> 02:31:23,530
Right so I'm saying 3 with
the one Billboard on Richmond.

3373
02:31:23,530 --> 02:31:27,430
Yeah out on that's
on 1,300 East right.

3374
02:31:27,430 --> 02:31:32,250
And that would be but to
get a better exchange.

3375
02:31:32,250 --> 02:31:34,020
Then you got on the original.

3376
02:31:34,020 --> 02:31:34,960
At least tried to.

3377
02:31:34,960 --> 02:31:36,850
If not.

3378
02:31:36,850 --> 02:31:39,370
Don't do it.

3379
02:31:39,370 --> 02:31:40,695
A Dwayne.

3380
02:31:40,695 --> 02:31:48,470


3381
02:31:48,470 --> 02:31:52,280
If we change the
sign code to give,

3382
02:31:52,280 --> 02:31:55,640
to allow two additional
district signs,

3383
02:31:55,640 --> 02:31:58,070
and then it becomes a
legislative matter for the city

3384
02:31:58,070 --> 02:32:00,440
council where they
essentially have

3385
02:32:00,440 --> 02:32:01,700
a blank check to
do whatever they

3386
02:32:01,700 --> 02:32:03,480
want on an exchange agreement.

3387
02:32:03,480 --> 02:32:07,610
With so many unknowns and
variables still in play here.

3388
02:32:07,610 --> 02:32:10,670
I would opt for you
know, I would vote

3389
02:32:10,670 --> 02:32:14,830
for option number four that we.

3390
02:32:14,830 --> 02:32:17,050
Advanced the sign code in
general because there's no need

3391
02:32:17,050 --> 02:32:18,490
to hold up the remainder
of the sign code

3392
02:32:18,490 --> 02:32:19,950
just over district signs.

3393
02:32:19,950 --> 02:32:24,190
Let's get the sign code
updated and implemented.

3394
02:32:24,190 --> 02:32:30,830
But I I'm not persuaded that now
is the right time to move on.

3395
02:32:30,830 --> 02:32:37,100
The digital district
signs in the city center.

3396
02:32:37,100 --> 02:32:38,250
OK thanks, Duane.

3397
02:32:38,250 --> 02:32:41,830
Thanks and my thoughts
are kind of that hybrid

3398
02:32:41,830 --> 02:32:42,690
that I suggested.

3399
02:32:42,690 --> 02:32:44,440
It's kind of like.

3400
02:32:44,440 --> 02:32:47,020
4 plus.

3401
02:32:47,020 --> 02:32:50,450
I think a district
signs are fine.

3402
02:32:50,450 --> 02:32:52,090
They don't have to be digital.

3403
02:32:52,090 --> 02:32:54,470
They could just be a
nice district sign.

3404
02:32:54,470 --> 02:32:57,130
Welcome to the city
center chair, Lamar.

3405
02:32:57,130 --> 02:33:00,070
Yes, actually, maybe
propose some language

3406
02:33:00,070 --> 02:33:01,070
here for you to look at.

3407
02:33:01,070 --> 02:33:02,810
I don't know whether
that'll work, but.

3408
02:33:02,810 --> 02:33:06,810
OK let's see.

3409
02:33:06,810 --> 02:33:08,730
Oh, you know what?

3410
02:33:08,730 --> 02:33:10,000
Yeah, that's correct.

3411
02:33:10,000 --> 02:33:12,120
So that would have
the effect of,

3412
02:33:12,120 --> 02:33:15,640
you know, so there's only
one digital district sign.

3413
02:33:15,640 --> 02:33:18,760
But, you know, we could create
a district monument sign.

3414
02:33:18,760 --> 02:33:21,190
Yeah, something
along those lines.

3415
02:33:21,190 --> 02:33:24,720
I'm just kind of
spitballing and.

3416
02:33:24,720 --> 02:33:26,790
And when you're saying the
one digital district sign,

3417
02:33:26,790 --> 02:33:28,510
that's the one that
already exists.

3418
02:33:28,510 --> 02:33:29,620
Yes this one out here.

3419
02:33:29,620 --> 02:33:31,210
So not additional, right?

3420
02:33:31,210 --> 02:33:34,360
Yeah and then this would be.

3421
02:33:34,360 --> 02:33:37,640
We could have a district
monument sign feet.

3422
02:33:37,640 --> 02:33:39,230
Area of electronic
message limited.

3423
02:33:39,230 --> 02:33:40,910
Yeah that.

3424
02:33:40,910 --> 02:33:45,470
So what's on the screen that
captures kind of my feeling.

3425
02:33:45,470 --> 02:33:50,120
I feel that's what I was
trying to articulate earlier.

3426
02:33:50,120 --> 02:33:53,260
But Francis did
it a lot shorter.

3427
02:33:53,260 --> 02:33:58,420
So in this case, we're
saying only one that exists,

3428
02:33:58,420 --> 02:33:59,540
only the one that exists.

3429
02:33:59,540 --> 02:34:01,820
So so no additional no.

3430
02:34:01,820 --> 02:34:04,510
No additional signs.

3431
02:34:04,510 --> 02:34:07,580
Well, there would be additional
they would be limited.

3432
02:34:07,580 --> 02:34:10,840
But there's no
exchange with Reagan

3433
02:34:10,840 --> 02:34:12,230
for taking down Billboard.

3434
02:34:12,230 --> 02:34:12,920
There's no exchange.

3435
02:34:12,920 --> 02:34:14,240
It's not it's not a large one.

3436
02:34:14,240 --> 02:34:16,080
It's a smaller one.

3437
02:34:16,080 --> 02:34:23,570
Yeah so that's kind of
where my feeling is.

3438
02:34:23,570 --> 02:34:25,380
For me, this model
motion would work.

3439
02:34:25,380 --> 02:34:28,400
I don't know about you.

3440
02:34:28,400 --> 02:34:30,810
May capture what we wanted
with no additional sign.

3441
02:34:30,810 --> 02:34:36,420
And I think we could also
say if the city council.

3442
02:34:36,420 --> 02:34:38,550
Had an appetite that they did
want to do an exchange that we

3443
02:34:38,550 --> 02:34:42,360
highly recommend, that it's
a very aggressive, robust,

3444
02:34:42,360 --> 02:34:48,410
you know, good exchange ratio
of what they're going to.

3445
02:34:48,410 --> 02:34:50,310
Exchange how many
what the ratio is.

3446
02:34:50,310 --> 02:34:52,080
And also which
signs are removed.

3447
02:34:52,080 --> 02:34:55,190
So they're not removing
signs that while it's

3448
02:34:55,190 --> 02:34:57,510
a billboard, signs that we
don't really care about.

3449
02:34:57,510 --> 02:35:00,680
Like there's a few that I
didn't even know existed until.

3450
02:35:00,680 --> 02:35:03,360
This, we started
looking at billboards.

3451
02:35:03,360 --> 02:35:04,940
So to me, if they
remove those, I don't

3452
02:35:04,940 --> 02:35:07,510
think anybody would even know.

3453
02:35:07,510 --> 02:35:11,990
I think they have to be
substantial, meaningful signs.

3454
02:35:11,990 --> 02:35:17,210
So can we make recommendations
on top of maybe doing a motion

3455
02:35:17,210 --> 02:35:19,250
that we approve, but
can we just give them

3456
02:35:19,250 --> 02:35:21,980
a list of these are
the things we recommend

3457
02:35:21,980 --> 02:35:24,360
before we do anything else.

3458
02:35:24,360 --> 02:35:27,480
Yeah you can advise the
council on, on, on those.

3459
02:35:27,480 --> 02:35:28,760
And that's one of
the reasons why I

3460
02:35:28,760 --> 02:35:31,440
created this list here, right?

3461
02:35:31,440 --> 02:35:34,650
You know, disregard, disregard
the language in the option.

3462
02:35:34,650 --> 02:35:36,030
Just look at these.

3463
02:35:36,030 --> 02:35:37,800
Yeah Uh, oops.

3464
02:35:37,800 --> 02:35:38,580
Let me get.

3465
02:35:38,580 --> 02:35:39,920
Sorry, commissioner
Vance, I'm going

3466
02:35:39,920 --> 02:35:43,460
to push you out of the way,
um, so that everybody can see,

3467
02:35:43,460 --> 02:35:45,650
including you.

3468
02:35:45,650 --> 02:35:51,850
But I mean, those were kind of.

3469
02:35:51,850 --> 02:35:54,610
In listening to you
write, those are maybe

3470
02:35:54,610 --> 02:35:57,760
my proposed parameters, like
not knowing what the value

3471
02:35:57,760 --> 02:35:58,880
of some of these signs are.

3472
02:35:58,880 --> 02:36:02,190
Right? here's a basis for us to
say like pick from these signs,

3473
02:36:02,190 --> 02:36:02,690
right?

3474
02:36:02,690 --> 02:36:04,450
If they move forward
with deciding

3475
02:36:04,450 --> 02:36:05,770
we do want to do
an exchange, this

3476
02:36:05,770 --> 02:36:10,110
could be a recommendation of
and I personally, I like this.

3477
02:36:10,110 --> 02:36:12,030
These because that
makes sure that we're

3478
02:36:12,030 --> 02:36:16,530
getting more meaningful
signs removed, not just

3479
02:36:16,530 --> 02:36:17,910
the ones that are
against a building

3480
02:36:17,910 --> 02:36:20,120
that nobody really
notices anyway.

3481
02:36:20,120 --> 02:36:22,780


3482
02:36:22,780 --> 02:36:26,800
I think I've heard all
the commissioners like.

3483
02:36:26,800 --> 02:36:28,930
Well, most of us, I
think, are OK if we

3484
02:36:28,930 --> 02:36:31,700
do another one on 1,300.

3485
02:36:31,700 --> 02:36:35,470
But I think most people
are like one way, not

3486
02:36:35,470 --> 02:36:37,420
really one way or the
other on the putting one

3487
02:36:37,420 --> 02:36:38,300
on the other side.

3488
02:36:38,300 --> 02:36:42,850
So, I mean, can we recommend
that we only they could put two

3489
02:36:42,850 --> 02:36:48,730
up, but we recommend that they
only put the one on 1,300 up

3490
02:36:48,730 --> 02:36:52,960
and the other sign just be a
regular like welcome to Mill

3491
02:36:52,960 --> 02:36:54,050
Creek sign.

3492
02:36:54,050 --> 02:36:56,710
That is an option
too right Yeah.

3493
02:36:56,710 --> 02:36:59,890
And then make other
recommendations of you

3494
02:36:59,890 --> 02:37:04,540
know, we things that we think
they should do like if we think

3495
02:37:04,540 --> 02:37:06,610
that it shouldn't
be for advertising,

3496
02:37:06,610 --> 02:37:10,040
it should be owned by the city.

3497
02:37:10,040 --> 02:37:13,840
Or, you know, just
for city information.

3498
02:37:13,840 --> 02:37:14,390
I mean.

3499
02:37:14,390 --> 02:37:17,890


3500
02:37:17,890 --> 02:37:19,210
Well, commissioners,
does this give us

3501
02:37:19,210 --> 02:37:20,980
enough information
for anybody that would

3502
02:37:20,980 --> 02:37:24,320
be willing to make a motion?

3503
02:37:24,320 --> 02:37:27,540
Are we permitted to
separate the two?

3504
02:37:27,540 --> 02:37:29,040
Yes portions of this?

3505
02:37:29,040 --> 02:37:29,870
I think so.

3506
02:37:29,870 --> 02:37:36,740
So so why don't we go ahead
and I'm going to recommend

3507
02:37:36,740 --> 02:37:44,120
that we recommend
approval of the sign

3508
02:37:44,120 --> 02:37:48,690
ordinance portion of t 23016.

3509
02:37:48,690 --> 02:37:49,720
And I think there's.

3510
02:37:49,720 --> 02:37:52,420
Yeah you've got the
notes with this.

3511
02:37:52,420 --> 02:37:55,190
With the.

3512
02:37:55,190 --> 02:37:59,063
Items that we considered today.

3513
02:37:59,063 --> 02:38:02,640


3514
02:38:02,640 --> 02:38:03,220
Can I make.

3515
02:38:03,220 --> 02:38:04,500
Can I. Can I suggest something?

3516
02:38:04,500 --> 02:38:09,210
Yeah, because I'm not sure about
one of those as I'm reading it.

3517
02:38:09,210 --> 02:38:11,250
Are you comfortable,
Francis, on the brightness

3518
02:38:11,250 --> 02:38:12,010
and light temperature?

3519
02:38:12,010 --> 02:38:14,760
Because I heard a statement of
I like bright light and that's

3520
02:38:14,760 --> 02:38:17,500
not my statement about my life.

3521
02:38:17,500 --> 02:38:19,990
Yeah so, I mean, I guess
that's a point of debate.

3522
02:38:19,990 --> 02:38:21,600
I heard a couple
people on the council

3523
02:38:21,600 --> 02:38:23,790
saying, well, let's
consider, let's at least

3524
02:38:23,790 --> 02:38:25,810
consider the sign
industry best practice.

3525
02:38:25,810 --> 02:38:30,400
But I know that that, that
Commissioner Reed used you.

3526
02:38:30,400 --> 02:38:32,340
I like what you have.

3527
02:38:32,340 --> 02:38:34,210
OK so I don't know.

3528
02:38:34,210 --> 02:38:37,360
Does anyone I'm going to
say to cut that part out.

3529
02:38:37,360 --> 02:38:40,630
But you can give a friendly
Amendment not friendly.

3530
02:38:40,630 --> 02:38:45,250
You can amend it and see if
the votes are to keep that in.

3531
02:38:45,250 --> 02:38:46,120
Is that right?

3532
02:38:46,120 --> 02:38:51,660
I propose it without the
considering adjustments

3533
02:38:51,660 --> 02:38:53,550
to the brightness and light
temperature and then we can

3534
02:38:53,550 --> 02:38:55,460
someone else can change that.

3535
02:38:55,460 --> 02:38:58,490


3536
02:38:58,490 --> 02:39:01,790
And the rest, I think is OK.

3537
02:39:01,790 --> 02:39:04,940
Um, and so and this is
without the digital,

3538
02:39:04,940 --> 02:39:11,160
the district sign portion
of this proposed ordinance.

3539
02:39:11,160 --> 02:39:12,880
So do I have a second on that?

3540
02:39:12,880 --> 02:39:15,870
Are you clear on
what I'm saying?

3541
02:39:15,870 --> 02:39:16,980
I'll second it.

3542
02:39:16,980 --> 02:39:23,190
OK I move that we recommend
approval to the city council

3543
02:39:23,190 --> 02:39:28,830
of the sign ordinance
portion of zt 23 016, which

3544
02:39:28,830 --> 02:39:30,340
amends the existing sign code.

3545
02:39:30,340 --> 02:39:36,390
Chapter 19.82 with the additions
that we have discussed that

3546
02:39:36,390 --> 02:39:38,640
are listed here in
the notes section,

3547
02:39:38,640 --> 02:39:42,610
excluding the brightness
and light temperature.

3548
02:39:42,610 --> 02:39:45,270


3549
02:39:45,270 --> 02:39:47,490
recommendations.

3550
02:39:47,490 --> 02:39:48,550
A motion by Reed.

3551
02:39:48,550 --> 02:39:49,190
Is there a second?

3552
02:39:49,190 --> 02:39:51,700


3553
02:39:51,700 --> 02:39:53,200
I'll second with
the clarification

3554
02:39:53,200 --> 02:39:57,370
that this is expressly
excluding signs, which I don't

3555
02:39:57,370 --> 02:39:58,630
think we heard in
the oral motion,

3556
02:39:58,630 --> 02:40:00,970
but is in the written motion.

3557
02:40:00,970 --> 02:40:03,220
Yeah, it's a part of
that bullet point one,

3558
02:40:03,220 --> 02:40:05,200
not including the
provision regarding

3559
02:40:05,200 --> 02:40:08,740
digital district signs.

3560
02:40:08,740 --> 02:40:11,260
So if people don't
agree with me,

3561
02:40:11,260 --> 02:40:15,370
I'm undercutting myself
right on the spot.

3562
02:40:15,370 --> 02:40:17,170
If you don't agree
with me, then I'm

3563
02:40:17,170 --> 02:40:20,470
going to propose an
Amendment to mine

3564
02:40:20,470 --> 02:40:22,010
and we can take a
separate vote on it.

3565
02:40:22,010 --> 02:40:24,380
Or if you're all good with it,
we'll just go ahead and vote.

3566
02:40:24,380 --> 02:40:31,150
Yeah, just got a motion by
Reed and a second by Vans.

3567
02:40:31,150 --> 02:40:33,520
So we can open it
for discussion.

3568
02:40:33,520 --> 02:40:35,710
I just have a favor
of what you've

3569
02:40:35,710 --> 02:40:39,450
presented with a strikethrough
for bullet point for.

3570
02:40:39,450 --> 02:40:42,240
Yeah, but I do have a
concern when it comes to

3571
02:40:42,240 --> 02:40:43,770
on the brightness
and temperature

3572
02:40:43,770 --> 02:40:47,490
and the I don't have a
problem with the best industry

3573
02:40:47,490 --> 02:40:48,830
practices or something.

3574
02:40:48,830 --> 02:40:54,540
You have to can't just if
the color or the brightness

3575
02:40:54,540 --> 02:40:56,670
is such that it
makes a digital sign

3576
02:40:56,670 --> 02:40:59,260
impossible to read and look at.

3577
02:40:59,260 --> 02:41:01,870
I mean, you just can't do that.

3578
02:41:01,870 --> 02:41:04,030
You've got to have
something that.

3579
02:41:04,030 --> 02:41:07,730
That the industry can put up
and was willing to put up.

3580
02:41:07,730 --> 02:41:10,240
And there has to be
at least a discussion

3581
02:41:10,240 --> 02:41:14,100
between the industry and.

3582
02:41:14,100 --> 02:41:18,060
And the ordinance has to make
sense for the brightness.

3583
02:41:18,060 --> 02:41:18,810
My understanding.

3584
02:41:18,810 --> 02:41:23,670
Maybe I'm wrong is that the
standards that are specified

3585
02:41:23,670 --> 02:41:25,800
in this draft
ordinance are the ones

3586
02:41:25,800 --> 02:41:29,020
that are the same as what is
in the existing district sign.

3587
02:41:29,020 --> 02:41:30,420
Is that correct?

3588
02:41:30,420 --> 02:41:32,730
Are you talking are you
talking about the brightness

3589
02:41:32,730 --> 02:41:35,280
of the brightness of
electronic message centers?

3590
02:41:35,280 --> 02:41:40,690
No so so the brightness for,
you know, just standard signs.

3591
02:41:40,690 --> 02:41:42,190
That's that's new language.

3592
02:41:42,190 --> 02:41:46,630
And it was attempted it was an
attempt to balance, you know,

3593
02:41:46,630 --> 02:41:49,480
the rights of sign companies.

3594
02:41:49,480 --> 02:41:53,340
But the but the city's interest
broadly to gradually move

3595
02:41:53,340 --> 02:41:56,880
toward a dark sky
compliant city knowing

3596
02:41:56,880 --> 02:41:57,940
that we'll never get there.

3597
02:41:57,940 --> 02:41:59,670
Right we'll never
achieve a state of grace,

3598
02:41:59,670 --> 02:42:01,530
but we can always try.

3599
02:42:01,530 --> 02:42:04,780
Um, and that was the intent.

3600
02:42:04,780 --> 02:42:07,020
And the code consultant
kind of borrowed codes

3601
02:42:07,020 --> 02:42:09,390
from cities in
Colorado and Arizona

3602
02:42:09,390 --> 02:42:11,680
to move us in that direction.

3603
02:42:11,680 --> 02:42:15,820
And that's where they came up
with the 100 nit requirement.

3604
02:42:15,820 --> 02:42:16,540
OK Yeah.

3605
02:42:16,540 --> 02:42:18,110
So maybe that's fine.

3606
02:42:18,110 --> 02:42:21,340
I mean, I think there
should be a balance there,

3607
02:42:21,340 --> 02:42:23,930
but I think there
should be discussion.

3608
02:42:23,930 --> 02:42:25,210
It sounds like
you've had discussion

3609
02:42:25,210 --> 02:42:30,910
with people in the industry,
but you know, we're not Torrey,

3610
02:42:30,910 --> 02:42:31,850
Utah either.

3611
02:42:31,850 --> 02:42:34,280
We're we're Creek city
and Salt Lake City.

3612
02:42:34,280 --> 02:42:35,260
So there.

3613
02:42:35,260 --> 02:42:38,420


3614
02:42:38,420 --> 02:42:43,700
It can be a dark sky anyway,
but so maybe it's just what you

3615
02:42:43,700 --> 02:42:45,110
have in there is just perfect.

3616
02:42:45,110 --> 02:42:47,800
That's that's what the
motion is saying is.

3617
02:42:47,800 --> 02:42:48,800
Yeah all right.

3618
02:42:48,800 --> 02:42:51,330
OK and I like it that way too.

3619
02:42:51,330 --> 02:42:53,960
I is perfect for.

3620
02:42:53,960 --> 02:42:56,860
I mean, I want to be.

3621
02:42:56,860 --> 02:43:00,880
Well, I think since it's our
city where the residents that

3622
02:43:00,880 --> 02:43:03,370
live here, that we don't
need to just rely on the best

3623
02:43:03,370 --> 02:43:05,890
practices of the industry,
I think we should rely

3624
02:43:05,890 --> 02:43:09,040
on what makes sense to us
and then have the industry

3625
02:43:09,040 --> 02:43:11,290
adapt to it.

3626
02:43:11,290 --> 02:43:14,380
And, you know, and since
other cities have done it,

3627
02:43:14,380 --> 02:43:17,950
it's not just a number that
staff pulled out of a hat.

3628
02:43:17,950 --> 02:43:20,570
I think there's
some basis for it.

3629
02:43:20,570 --> 02:43:22,130
It probably will
require some change.

3630
02:43:22,130 --> 02:43:23,650
Some signs won't be as bright.

3631
02:43:23,650 --> 02:43:25,060
But just because
some other city does,

3632
02:43:25,060 --> 02:43:26,410
it doesn't mean we
should do it either.

3633
02:43:26,410 --> 02:43:27,710
We should do it
what's best for us.

3634
02:43:27,710 --> 02:43:28,520
That's right.

3635
02:43:28,520 --> 02:43:30,070
And I feel like it is best.

3636
02:43:30,070 --> 02:43:33,320
My recommendation is like,
yeah, leave it out like.

3637
02:43:33,320 --> 02:43:36,480
So there are some
extreme cities on that.

3638
02:43:36,480 --> 02:43:37,410
Yeah Yeah.

3639
02:43:37,410 --> 02:43:39,690
I don't want to be extreme.

3640
02:43:39,690 --> 02:43:43,790
Well, we have a
motion and a second

3641
02:43:43,790 --> 02:43:46,910
and any more discussion
on this or I'm

3642
02:43:46,910 --> 02:43:49,130
ready to call for a vote.

3643
02:43:49,130 --> 02:43:52,310
So, Dwayne, since you're remote,
we're going to start with you,

3644
02:43:52,310 --> 02:43:56,930
and then we'll do a
vote here on site.

3645
02:43:56,930 --> 02:43:58,910
I vote Yes.

3646
02:43:58,910 --> 02:44:00,120
Votes Yes.

3647
02:44:00,120 --> 02:44:02,040
Holtzberg Yes.

3648
02:44:02,040 --> 02:44:03,680
Lofgren no.

3649
02:44:03,680 --> 02:44:05,420
Soul Yes.

3650
02:44:05,420 --> 02:44:06,690
Lamars Yes.

3651
02:44:06,690 --> 02:44:08,080
Reed Yes.

3652
02:44:08,080 --> 02:44:09,190
And Anderson.

3653
02:44:09,190 --> 02:44:16,090


3654
02:44:16,090 --> 02:44:17,230
I vote no.

3655
02:44:17,230 --> 02:44:19,310
OK and Anderson is no.

3656
02:44:19,310 --> 02:44:22,640
So the first part
of this ordinance.

3657
02:44:22,640 --> 02:44:26,670
Passes for two to.

3658
02:44:26,670 --> 02:44:27,520
As a recommendation.

3659
02:44:27,520 --> 02:44:28,190
The city council.

3660
02:44:28,190 --> 02:44:28,690
Is that right?

3661
02:44:28,690 --> 02:44:31,900
For one, two, three,
five, five, two.

3662
02:44:31,900 --> 02:44:35,030
Thank you.

3663
02:44:35,030 --> 02:44:38,070
The people who object are
supposed to state why?

3664
02:44:38,070 --> 02:44:39,180
Correct?

3665
02:44:39,180 --> 02:44:41,550
they have the opportunity
to statewide, if you'd

3666
02:44:41,550 --> 02:44:45,510
like to give some clarity.

3667
02:44:45,510 --> 02:44:47,470
Just the light
discussion we had.

3668
02:44:47,470 --> 02:44:49,800
I think we should
match industry standard

3669
02:44:49,800 --> 02:44:51,970
makes more sense for
given being Mill Creek.

3670
02:44:51,970 --> 02:44:53,650
We're not.

3671
02:44:53,650 --> 02:44:54,750
The only community
I can think of

3672
02:44:54,750 --> 02:44:56,380
is kayenta down in St George.

3673
02:44:56,380 --> 02:44:58,600
That's a dark place.

3674
02:44:58,600 --> 02:45:00,540
And I don't think
we are that so.

3675
02:45:00,540 --> 02:45:02,540
Thank you.

3676
02:45:02,540 --> 02:45:04,740
Uh, I agree.

3677
02:45:04,740 --> 02:45:07,850
And I also think, you
know, even though we've.

3678
02:45:07,850 --> 02:45:10,620
I mean this is a good motion.

3679
02:45:10,620 --> 02:45:12,650
But I think we.

3680
02:45:12,650 --> 02:45:13,550
Need to have.

3681
02:45:13,550 --> 02:45:15,650
I'm not so sure we're
there on exactly what

3682
02:45:15,650 --> 02:45:18,240
we need in the sign ordinance.

3683
02:45:18,240 --> 02:45:22,180
I'd like to hear more of what,
like, yesco has to say and.

3684
02:45:22,180 --> 02:45:23,390
And others.

3685
02:45:23,390 --> 02:45:25,050
OK Thank you.

3686
02:45:25,050 --> 02:45:25,810
Even on this.

3687
02:45:25,810 --> 02:45:28,630
Well, we don't have
any safety stuff.

3688
02:45:28,630 --> 02:45:30,430
Well, basically,
all of these are

3689
02:45:30,430 --> 02:45:32,740
going to become
nonconforming signs if they

3690
02:45:32,740 --> 02:45:35,590
don't meet the standards.

3691
02:45:35,590 --> 02:45:38,920
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing
Utah Science Association said

3692
02:45:38,920 --> 02:45:42,220
is these are so far
are what we have is

3693
02:45:42,220 --> 02:45:45,080
far below what the standard is.

3694
02:45:45,080 --> 02:45:49,490
So these a lot of these will
come to us as non conforming.

3695
02:45:49,490 --> 02:45:52,258
So when that happens, I guess
after we get a half a dozen,

3696
02:45:52,258 --> 02:45:53,325
we'll probably change our minds.

3697
02:45:53,325 --> 02:45:56,610


3698
02:45:56,610 --> 02:45:59,430
Francis, any existing sign
would still be able to continue

3699
02:45:59,430 --> 02:46:00,370
as they are or would.

3700
02:46:00,370 --> 02:46:01,150
Yeah, it can be.

3701
02:46:01,150 --> 02:46:03,600
It could be it could be
maintained as long as the sign

3702
02:46:03,600 --> 02:46:05,110
doesn't change in size, right?

3703
02:46:05,110 --> 02:46:08,320
So the moment it gets the
moment gets taller or bigger.

3704
02:46:08,320 --> 02:46:10,480
Right it has to come
into compliance.

3705
02:46:10,480 --> 02:46:14,170
But, you know, any existing
sign can stay there forever.

3706
02:46:14,170 --> 02:46:15,640
It's legal nonconforming.

3707
02:46:15,640 --> 02:46:16,270
Yeah Yeah.

3708
02:46:16,270 --> 02:46:18,970
Legal nonconforming.

3709
02:46:18,970 --> 02:46:20,330
OK Thank you.

3710
02:46:20,330 --> 02:46:25,900
Those recommendations and
even for Nils and Steve,

3711
02:46:25,900 --> 02:46:28,810
that does help city
council get a gauge

3712
02:46:28,810 --> 02:46:34,960
on where our collective
thoughts were on this motion.

3713
02:46:34,960 --> 02:46:36,040
So thank you.

3714
02:46:36,040 --> 02:46:39,600
Now district the
district signed portion.

3715
02:46:39,600 --> 02:46:42,670
And Francis, if you
could scroll to that.

3716
02:46:42,670 --> 02:46:45,800
OK model motion that you had.

3717
02:46:45,800 --> 02:46:48,580
So I did AI wrote
up a model motion,

3718
02:46:48,580 --> 02:46:52,480
you know, just kind of
based on discussion.

3719
02:46:52,480 --> 02:46:54,920
This is something I
just came up with.

3720
02:46:54,920 --> 02:46:58,550
But that's no changes.

3721
02:46:58,550 --> 02:46:59,590
Plus a monument sign.

3722
02:46:59,590 --> 02:47:02,933
Option number 4 is.

3723
02:47:02,933 --> 02:47:06,830


3724
02:47:06,830 --> 02:47:13,140
Number four is, is no changes,
which essentially means that.

3725
02:47:13,140 --> 02:47:15,820
Here I'm going to do this
state that no additional.

3726
02:47:15,820 --> 02:47:23,950


3727
02:47:23,950 --> 02:47:26,500
This would, you
know, essentially

3728
02:47:26,500 --> 02:47:27,740
say one is enough, right?

3729
02:47:27,740 --> 02:47:28,250
That's the one.

3730
02:47:28,250 --> 02:47:31,030
And that's the
one enough option.

3731
02:47:31,030 --> 02:47:32,343
Option three.

3732
02:47:32,343 --> 02:47:35,530


3733
02:47:35,530 --> 02:47:39,440
Option three says essentially
one digital district sign.

3734
02:47:39,440 --> 02:47:42,610
And you can look at either
nonconforming signs anywhere

3735
02:47:42,610 --> 02:47:44,800
in Mill Creek or signs
near the city center,

3736
02:47:44,800 --> 02:47:47,200
as in your model motion.

3737
02:47:47,200 --> 02:47:51,010
Option two is the
two digital district

3738
02:47:51,010 --> 02:47:54,380
signs with the
nonconforming sign list.

3739
02:47:54,380 --> 02:47:56,920
Right and paraphrasing
an option one

3740
02:47:56,920 --> 02:47:59,650
is the two additional
district signs

3741
02:47:59,650 --> 02:48:02,710
emphasizing signs in the
city center to be removed

3742
02:48:02,710 --> 02:48:04,340
and back to four.

3743
02:48:04,340 --> 02:48:06,650
That's just saying.

3744
02:48:06,650 --> 02:48:09,870
With no additional district
digital district signs.

3745
02:48:09,870 --> 02:48:11,740
But it's not.

3746
02:48:11,740 --> 02:48:13,280
It's not illuminating.

3747
02:48:13,280 --> 02:48:16,160
Just a static district sign.

3748
02:48:16,160 --> 02:48:17,020
No, it would not.

3749
02:48:17,020 --> 02:48:18,460
It would not eliminate a static.

3750
02:48:18,460 --> 02:48:20,550
I mean, the truth is
that's already allowed.

3751
02:48:20,550 --> 02:48:22,420
Right that's the
code already allows

3752
02:48:22,420 --> 02:48:23,910
that we can do that tomorrow.

3753
02:48:23,910 --> 02:48:33,170
OK well, I like the my
thoughts are I do like the 5

3754
02:48:33,170 --> 02:48:35,240
because I'm not.

3755
02:48:35,240 --> 02:48:40,270
Opposed to a digital just
but for just the city.

3756
02:48:40,270 --> 02:48:42,910
That's kind of where I land.

3757
02:48:42,910 --> 02:48:43,550
I'm OK.

3758
02:48:43,550 --> 02:48:44,050
I'm OK.

3759
02:48:44,050 --> 02:48:46,890
Giving some leeway on the
digital portion there.

3760
02:48:46,890 --> 02:48:49,800


3761
02:48:49,800 --> 02:48:54,640
So I would like to make a
motion on option 4 here.

3762
02:48:54,640 --> 02:48:55,950
OK, go ahead.

3763
02:48:55,950 --> 02:49:01,440
So I recommend that the
city council approve z 24

3764
02:49:01,440 --> 02:49:03,160
with the following modification.

3765
02:49:03,160 --> 02:49:09,480
With respect to signs in the
city center table 18.16 point

3766
02:49:09,480 --> 02:49:12,900
113in the draft ordinance
should be amended to state

3767
02:49:12,900 --> 02:49:16,110
that no additional district
signs are allowed in the city

3768
02:49:16,110 --> 02:49:18,660
center overlay zone.

3769
02:49:18,660 --> 02:49:21,540
Motion by Holzberger.

3770
02:49:21,540 --> 02:49:24,120
I'll second, second.

3771
02:49:24,120 --> 02:49:27,435
Victoria Reid beat you,
but that letter beat me.

3772
02:49:27,435 --> 02:49:27,935
I'm fine.

3773
02:49:27,935 --> 02:49:30,630


3774
02:49:30,630 --> 02:49:36,760
Any additional discussion
or changes to that motion?

3775
02:49:36,760 --> 02:49:40,280
OK, Dwayne, I'll start
voting again with you online.

3776
02:49:40,280 --> 02:49:42,010
Dwayne Vance.

3777
02:49:42,010 --> 02:49:44,330
Yes David Holzberger.

3778
02:49:44,330 --> 02:49:46,250
Yes Nils Lofgren.

3779
02:49:46,250 --> 02:49:47,515
No Ansel.

3780
02:49:47,515 --> 02:49:54,230


3781
02:49:54,230 --> 02:49:56,980
Let me come back to you.

3782
02:49:56,980 --> 02:49:57,765
Steve Anderson.

3783
02:49:57,765 --> 02:50:06,400


3784
02:50:06,400 --> 02:50:08,260
I vote Yes, Peloton this one?

3785
02:50:08,260 --> 02:50:09,350
Victoria Reid.

3786
02:50:09,350 --> 02:50:11,630
Yes Lamar.

3787
02:50:11,630 --> 02:50:14,400
Yes Diane Sewell.

3788
02:50:14,400 --> 02:50:17,170


3789
02:50:17,170 --> 02:50:21,790
Yes and the answer is Yes.

3790
02:50:21,790 --> 02:50:22,550
And commissioners?

3791
02:50:22,550 --> 02:50:24,370
I would.

3792
02:50:24,370 --> 02:50:26,070
Maybe this should.

3793
02:50:26,070 --> 02:50:28,620
Can we still then
clarify outside

3794
02:50:28,620 --> 02:50:30,660
of emotion of additional
recommendation,

3795
02:50:30,660 --> 02:50:33,030
like if they did go
with the digital sign?

3796
02:50:33,030 --> 02:50:36,330
Yeah, that I think that you
understand the sentiment

3797
02:50:36,330 --> 02:50:39,480
that we would if they did
pursue an exchange that

3798
02:50:39,480 --> 02:50:40,690
would be robust.

3799
02:50:40,690 --> 02:50:42,240
And I don't speak for
other commissioners

3800
02:50:42,240 --> 02:50:45,120
but that the bullet
points in number two

3801
02:50:45,120 --> 02:50:47,320
of like what signs
they should consider.

3802
02:50:47,320 --> 02:50:53,250
I think we're in agreement
with that those 5 above 32

3803
02:50:53,250 --> 02:50:54,030
and double Decker.

3804
02:50:54,030 --> 02:50:54,910
And all of that.

3805
02:50:54,910 --> 02:50:57,850
Does that sound like
what we well would want?

3806
02:50:57,850 --> 02:51:02,070
I think option 5 is something.

3807
02:51:02,070 --> 02:51:05,110
We should make them
consider like that we want.

3808
02:51:05,110 --> 02:51:06,360
If they're going
to do something,

3809
02:51:06,360 --> 02:51:10,740
they need to bring it back to
us with another of their options

3810
02:51:10,740 --> 02:51:12,670
of we want a smaller sign.

3811
02:51:12,670 --> 02:51:15,010
We want to recommend that
it's owned by the city.

3812
02:51:15,010 --> 02:51:17,760
We want to recommend
that, you know,

3813
02:51:17,760 --> 02:51:20,430
they look at other
options, like if you're

3814
02:51:20,430 --> 02:51:22,950
going to put digital signs
and put them in other places

3815
02:51:22,950 --> 02:51:24,930
than just in the city center.

3816
02:51:24,930 --> 02:51:27,960
Yeah, I mean, to me, those
are kind of the things

3817
02:51:27,960 --> 02:51:30,600
that I think we
should not tell them.

3818
02:51:30,600 --> 02:51:34,080
Absolutely not ever,
but that we want

3819
02:51:34,080 --> 02:51:36,100
them to consider other things.

3820
02:51:36,100 --> 02:51:39,330
Yeah, the city council does have
the option to remand something

3821
02:51:39,330 --> 02:51:40,540
back to the planning commission.

3822
02:51:40,540 --> 02:51:42,090
Yeah, but they don't have to.

3823
02:51:42,090 --> 02:51:43,860
Yeah so it would be
at their discretion.

3824
02:51:43,860 --> 02:51:45,190
Totally at their discretion.

3825
02:51:45,190 --> 02:51:49,120
Yeah but France, if you
could relay that one to them.

3826
02:51:49,120 --> 02:51:50,350
I think that's OK.

3827
02:51:50,350 --> 02:51:51,760
I think you understand the.

3828
02:51:51,760 --> 02:51:54,270
Yes our thoughts
just add one thing

3829
02:51:54,270 --> 02:51:56,550
like Thank you in
the option we had is

3830
02:51:56,550 --> 02:51:58,420
that it would be a
meaningful reduction.

3831
02:51:58,420 --> 02:52:02,710
And I feel like that language
is so squishy of what does

3832
02:52:02,710 --> 02:52:04,430
a meaningful reduction mean?

3833
02:52:04,430 --> 02:52:07,570
And so to me, it needs to be
far stronger, like more robust,

3834
02:52:07,570 --> 02:52:09,880
like 5 to 1 or
something like that.

3835
02:52:09,880 --> 02:52:10,880
I'm making something up.

3836
02:52:10,880 --> 02:52:16,020
But, but heck, that's as good
as a meaningful reduction.

3837
02:52:16,020 --> 02:52:17,110
OK Thank you.

3838
02:52:17,110 --> 02:52:21,150


3839
02:52:21,150 --> 02:52:23,310
OK Thank you.

3840
02:52:23,310 --> 02:52:23,990
We got through that.

3841
02:52:23,990 --> 02:52:29,770
Thank you both, Mr
Young's and Kathy

3842
02:52:29,770 --> 02:52:34,460
Blake for joining us live at the
meeting tonight for this board.

3843
02:52:34,460 --> 02:52:36,950
And also, if anybody wants.

3844
02:52:36,950 --> 02:52:40,420
Sorry to interrupt, if anybody
would like a free coupon

3845
02:52:40,420 --> 02:52:44,980
to either noodle head
downstairs, $5 or Mill Creek

3846
02:52:44,980 --> 02:52:47,200
pizza house or one
of each, they're

3847
02:52:47,200 --> 02:52:48,470
actually on the table outside.

3848
02:52:48,470 --> 02:52:49,470
Just grab one on your way out.

3849
02:52:49,470 --> 02:52:53,280


3850
02:52:53,280 --> 02:52:55,390
Thank you.

3851
02:52:55,390 --> 02:52:57,710
Commissioners a break.

3852
02:52:57,710 --> 02:53:02,120
We do need to go through
some training with John.

3853
02:53:02,120 --> 02:53:06,840
I would propose that we do
a five, eight minute break.

3854
02:53:06,840 --> 02:53:10,070
There's lukewarm
pizza in the EOC.

3855
02:53:10,070 --> 02:53:11,570
It's really good.

3856
02:53:11,570 --> 02:53:15,450
Dwayne, we'll meet you back
for training about 8:00.

3857
02:53:15,450 --> 02:53:16,550
It did?

3858
02:53:16,550 --> 02:53:18,550
Yeah and they're much better.

3859
02:53:18,550 --> 02:53:20,290
They're they're actually
happy to have you there.

3860
02:53:20,290 --> 03:06:35,770


3861
03:06:35,770 --> 03:06:37,600
I have a little clicker for you.

3862
03:06:37,600 --> 03:06:39,370
I got to get this other
free freezers taking

3863
03:06:39,370 --> 03:06:42,940
up too much space eating.

3864
03:06:42,940 --> 03:06:44,360
Which button is it, man?

3865
03:06:44,360 --> 03:07:06,190


3866
03:07:06,190 --> 03:07:08,740
let me start, because
everybody here.

3867
03:07:08,740 --> 03:07:16,780
Yes how much fun
signs and open meeting

3868
03:07:16,780 --> 03:07:20,710
training in the same meeting
to approve the minutes to.

3869
03:07:20,710 --> 03:07:21,760
Oh Wow.

3870
03:07:21,760 --> 03:07:29,870
Open OK.

3871
03:07:29,870 --> 03:07:31,760
OK are you ready?

3872
03:07:31,760 --> 03:07:38,000
OK Utah law requires the chair
to ensure that the public body

3873
03:07:38,000 --> 03:07:39,390
has annual training.

3874
03:07:39,390 --> 03:07:42,084
So this is Sean's insurance.

3875
03:07:42,084 --> 03:07:44,620


3876
03:07:44,620 --> 03:07:48,460
Provided by lease
that you're trained.

3877
03:07:48,460 --> 03:07:49,600
Thank you for helping out.

3878
03:07:49,600 --> 03:07:55,130
And when you're done with this,
you will be officially trained.

3879
03:07:55,130 --> 03:07:56,840
The act provides
that all meetings

3880
03:07:56,840 --> 03:08:00,320
are open unless they're
closed for a specific reason

3881
03:08:00,320 --> 03:08:03,030
or statutory or case law.

3882
03:08:03,030 --> 03:08:05,310
And we'll go through
that in a minute.

3883
03:08:05,310 --> 03:08:08,980
Meeting is defined as
a quorum in this case.

3884
03:08:08,980 --> 03:08:11,410
That before.

3885
03:08:11,410 --> 03:08:15,000
Five oh, OK.

3886
03:08:15,000 --> 03:08:19,800
You're right to discuss
or act upon a matter

3887
03:08:19,800 --> 03:08:22,710
over which the public
body has jurisdiction.

3888
03:08:22,710 --> 03:08:27,020
A meeting does not include a
chance or a social meeting.

3889
03:08:27,020 --> 03:08:29,700


3890
03:08:29,700 --> 03:08:34,410
Then this planning
commission has special rules.

3891
03:08:34,410 --> 03:08:36,540
That no member of
the and this is

3892
03:08:36,540 --> 03:08:38,910
outside the parameters
of open meetings,

3893
03:08:38,910 --> 03:08:40,893
but it relates back and forth.

3894
03:08:40,893 --> 03:08:42,460
And I'm sure I'm going
to get a question on it.

3895
03:08:42,460 --> 03:08:44,500
So I thought I'd just
bring it up anyway.

3896
03:08:44,500 --> 03:08:46,750
That no member of
the commission shall

3897
03:08:46,750 --> 03:08:50,350
have ex-parte
communication regarding

3898
03:08:50,350 --> 03:08:54,460
an administrative or rezoning
matter or applications

3899
03:08:54,460 --> 03:08:55,690
before the council.

3900
03:08:55,690 --> 03:08:57,020
And what's an ex-parte?

3901
03:08:57,020 --> 03:09:00,980
Communication means
a communication.

3902
03:09:00,980 --> 03:09:03,890
Electronic social.

3903
03:09:03,890 --> 03:09:07,470
Media regarding any of
those and we'll get to it.

3904
03:09:07,470 --> 03:09:09,400
A couple of examples
that help explain that.

3905
03:09:09,400 --> 03:09:12,930


3906
03:09:12,930 --> 03:09:15,790
Now, this is not intuitive.

3907
03:09:15,790 --> 03:09:17,380
This is anti intuitive.

3908
03:09:17,380 --> 03:09:19,830
This this section.

3909
03:09:19,830 --> 03:09:23,670
That nothing in this chapter
shall be construed to restrict

3910
03:09:23,670 --> 03:09:26,280
a member of a public
body from transmitting

3911
03:09:26,280 --> 03:09:29,790
an electronic message to other
members of the public body

3912
03:09:29,790 --> 03:09:32,640
at any time when the
public body is not

3913
03:09:32,640 --> 03:09:34,880
convened in an open meeting.

3914
03:09:34,880 --> 03:09:37,760
Well, if you can't
get together and talk,

3915
03:09:37,760 --> 03:09:40,320
but you can get together
electronically and talk.

3916
03:09:40,320 --> 03:09:41,910
It just anti-intuitive.

3917
03:09:41,910 --> 03:09:44,370
But that's the statute
and that's what's allowed.

3918
03:09:44,370 --> 03:09:45,750
But not during counsel.

3919
03:09:45,750 --> 03:09:47,750
When you can't say,
hey, how are you voting?

3920
03:09:47,750 --> 03:09:49,640
Oh, you know.

3921
03:09:49,640 --> 03:09:53,670
And John, does that have to be
through our Mill Creek email?

3922
03:09:53,670 --> 03:09:57,865
Nope it doesn't identify
just electronic message.

3923
03:09:57,865 --> 03:10:03,200


3924
03:10:03,200 --> 03:10:04,290
Somebody goes after you.

3925
03:10:04,290 --> 03:10:07,360


3926
03:10:07,360 --> 03:10:10,125
Grandma, then they could open
them up and clean up my inbox.

3927
03:10:10,125 --> 03:10:12,880


3928
03:10:12,880 --> 03:10:14,440
Unfortunately, you
get to clean it

3929
03:10:14,440 --> 03:10:16,310
out and then give it to Elise.

3930
03:10:16,310 --> 03:10:18,250
And then she gives it out.

3931
03:10:18,250 --> 03:10:24,990
Yeah the statute requires
a 24 hour advance notice

3932
03:10:24,990 --> 03:10:26,680
at least takes care of that.

3933
03:10:26,680 --> 03:10:30,950
And notice also required
a yearly notice at least.

3934
03:10:30,950 --> 03:10:32,105
Also takes care of that.

3935
03:10:32,105 --> 03:10:35,380


3936
03:10:35,380 --> 03:10:38,080
The notice that goes out
should be specific enough

3937
03:10:38,080 --> 03:10:40,000
to give a reasonable
person notification

3938
03:10:40,000 --> 03:10:43,660
of what's the matter,
what's on the agenda?

3939
03:10:43,660 --> 03:10:47,890
Now the chair in
their discretion.

3940
03:10:47,890 --> 03:10:51,490
May listen or may
allow topics raised

3941
03:10:51,490 --> 03:10:54,640
by the public that
are not on the agenda,

3942
03:10:54,640 --> 03:10:58,410
but you can't make a decision.

3943
03:10:58,410 --> 03:11:00,060
Yes Yeah.

3944
03:11:00,060 --> 03:11:01,070
Council chair.

3945
03:11:01,070 --> 03:11:01,730
Commission chair.

3946
03:11:01,730 --> 03:11:05,020


3947
03:11:05,020 --> 03:11:07,340
Because the rules are
a little different.

3948
03:11:07,340 --> 03:11:11,500
Well, I'm not for
open Meetings Law.

3949
03:11:11,500 --> 03:11:15,130
Written minutes,
which you prove here.

3950
03:11:15,130 --> 03:11:18,530
There's two types
written and recorded.

3951
03:11:18,530 --> 03:11:20,860
There's the recording
over there on top

3952
03:11:20,860 --> 03:11:25,460
of the little shelf by Elise
and the written minutes.

3953
03:11:25,460 --> 03:11:27,050
Elise is working on right now.

3954
03:11:27,050 --> 03:11:28,550
And those are the
ones you'll approve.

3955
03:11:28,550 --> 03:11:31,600
The written minutes
become the official record

3956
03:11:31,600 --> 03:11:34,300
of the action taken.

3957
03:11:34,300 --> 03:11:35,930
I haven't ever had this case.

3958
03:11:35,930 --> 03:11:38,650
But if somebody listens
to the recording

3959
03:11:38,650 --> 03:11:43,290
and it says AAA and the
written minutes, say B. The way

3960
03:11:43,290 --> 03:11:47,360
the statute says is
B wins, even though.

3961
03:11:47,360 --> 03:11:50,120
May actually be different.

3962
03:11:50,120 --> 03:11:50,940
What's that?

3963
03:11:50,940 --> 03:11:54,060


3964
03:11:54,060 --> 03:11:57,390
She can if you
approve the minutes.

3965
03:11:57,390 --> 03:11:58,660
Those are the official minutes.

3966
03:11:58,660 --> 03:12:00,400
Now, I haven't had that case.

3967
03:12:00,400 --> 03:12:02,640
A judge may do
something different,

3968
03:12:02,640 --> 03:12:06,420
but anyway, that's
what the statute says.

3969
03:12:06,420 --> 03:12:11,200
Then you can only hold a closed
meeting for specific purposes.

3970
03:12:11,200 --> 03:12:17,760
First, one character and
competency of an individual.

3971
03:12:17,760 --> 03:12:22,230
Or to discuss reasonably
imminent litigation,

3972
03:12:22,230 --> 03:12:25,590
you would have no reason to go
into a closed meeting for that

3973
03:12:25,590 --> 03:12:29,500
because that's not
within your purview.

3974
03:12:29,500 --> 03:12:33,160
Discuss purchase or exchange
or lease of real property.

3975
03:12:33,160 --> 03:12:35,320
Again, not within
your purview, but this

3976
03:12:35,320 --> 03:12:36,590
is open meetings, training.

3977
03:12:36,590 --> 03:12:38,810
So you're getting all of it.

3978
03:12:38,810 --> 03:12:41,040
Discuss the sale
of real property.

3979
03:12:41,040 --> 03:12:44,330
And this one might be
when the commission

3980
03:12:44,330 --> 03:12:50,240
is acting in a judicial
or quasi judicial status.

3981
03:12:50,240 --> 03:12:53,660
So this is if an appeal
comes to you, for example,

3982
03:12:53,660 --> 03:12:58,530
you can get together and
discuss how to decide the case.

3983
03:12:58,530 --> 03:13:01,750
In in a closed meeting.

3984
03:13:01,750 --> 03:13:05,170
What about if there was
like Mike Winder said, hey,

3985
03:13:05,170 --> 03:13:06,790
we have this idea,
I'm floating around

3986
03:13:06,790 --> 03:13:09,270
for this particular merchant.

3987
03:13:09,270 --> 03:13:11,310
In and wanted to talk
to us about that.

3988
03:13:11,310 --> 03:13:13,530
That would be a closed meeting.

3989
03:13:13,530 --> 03:13:15,640
Because not with the
planning commission.

3990
03:13:15,640 --> 03:13:19,120
He's going to have to divide
you up in pieces and parts.

3991
03:13:19,120 --> 03:13:20,410
So there's not a quorum.

3992
03:13:20,410 --> 03:13:23,610
And if he asks me,
that's what I'd tell him.

3993
03:13:23,610 --> 03:13:26,800
You can do that.

3994
03:13:26,800 --> 03:13:27,820
Yeah OK.

3995
03:13:27,820 --> 03:13:30,050
As long as there's not a quorum.

3996
03:13:30,050 --> 03:13:31,820
You just got to remember
what he told one group.

3997
03:13:31,820 --> 03:13:33,140
He tells the same
to the other group.

3998
03:13:33,140 --> 03:13:36,555
And we've done meetings
like that with you before.

3999
03:13:36,555 --> 03:13:41,600


4000
03:13:41,600 --> 03:13:44,960
Minutes of a closed meeting
are protected record.

4001
03:13:44,960 --> 03:13:47,960
Records under grandma.

4002
03:13:47,960 --> 03:13:49,276
So it can't be disclosed.

4003
03:13:49,276 --> 03:13:53,310


4004
03:13:53,310 --> 03:13:56,040
OK case study number one.

4005
03:13:56,040 --> 03:13:58,290
You've seen this one before.

4006
03:13:58,290 --> 03:14:00,600
Let's say it's five
planning commissioners,

4007
03:14:00,600 --> 03:14:03,950
because I can't count.

4008
03:14:03,950 --> 03:14:06,650
Five planning commissioners
have been properly

4009
03:14:06,650 --> 03:14:09,740
taught to shop local and
they run into each other

4010
03:14:09,740 --> 03:14:12,090
at the local Smith store.

4011
03:14:12,090 --> 03:14:13,920
And one of the
commissioners starts

4012
03:14:13,920 --> 03:14:16,800
discussing a request
for a conditional use

4013
03:14:16,800 --> 03:14:18,650
that's on council agenda.

4014
03:14:18,650 --> 03:14:21,390


4015
03:14:21,390 --> 03:14:23,990
One of you have to leave.

4016
03:14:23,990 --> 03:14:27,380
This is the recommendation
that you say that it's not

4017
03:14:27,380 --> 03:14:29,810
an appropriate forum
to discuss the matter

4018
03:14:29,810 --> 03:14:31,820
and change the subject.

4019
03:14:31,820 --> 03:14:34,400
Continue shopping or walk away.

4020
03:14:34,400 --> 03:14:38,710
You may not discuss the matter
and indicate how you will vote.

4021
03:14:38,710 --> 03:14:40,780
And wouldn't that apply,
though, even, let's say,

4022
03:14:40,780 --> 03:14:42,490
me in Victoria.

4023
03:14:42,490 --> 03:14:43,480
We shouldn't be talking.

4024
03:14:43,480 --> 03:14:44,450
We will get to that.

4025
03:14:44,450 --> 03:14:47,420
I got a specific example
to that coming right up.

4026
03:14:47,420 --> 03:14:52,080
Well, it's like
number five or 6, but.

4027
03:14:52,080 --> 03:14:56,640
OK number two, you're in
church and the constituent

4028
03:14:56,640 --> 03:15:00,360
comes up to you and wants
to talk about a new daycare

4029
03:15:00,360 --> 03:15:02,140
in the neighborhood.

4030
03:15:02,140 --> 03:15:05,400
That's a conditional use.

4031
03:15:05,400 --> 03:15:06,400
What can you do?

4032
03:15:06,400 --> 03:15:08,130
What can't you do?

4033
03:15:08,130 --> 03:15:10,820
Well, you can discuss the matter
because you're not a quorum.

4034
03:15:10,820 --> 03:15:14,010


4035
03:15:14,010 --> 03:15:16,620
But the PC rules are
planning commission

4036
03:15:16,620 --> 03:15:19,470
rules recommends
or says you can't

4037
03:15:19,470 --> 03:15:21,220
have ex parte communication.

4038
03:15:21,220 --> 03:15:24,400
Now the question is, is
that ex parte communication?

4039
03:15:24,400 --> 03:15:26,670
What I would recommend is you.

4040
03:15:26,670 --> 03:15:30,290
It's not appropriate to
discuss that in this forum.

4041
03:15:30,290 --> 03:15:33,655
And you continue your
worship or walk away.

4042
03:15:33,655 --> 03:15:37,530


4043
03:15:37,530 --> 03:15:40,350
We'll get to your
question later.

4044
03:15:40,350 --> 03:15:42,660
Facebook Dilemma.

4045
03:15:42,660 --> 03:15:45,750
While perusing the
Facebook, you encounter

4046
03:15:45,750 --> 03:15:50,550
a post about a daycare that
has a pending conditional use

4047
03:15:50,550 --> 03:15:51,810
application.

4048
03:15:51,810 --> 03:15:56,910
The post contains some
obvious misinformation.

4049
03:15:56,910 --> 03:16:01,020
Can't believe that happens, but
that you consider outrageous

4050
03:16:01,020 --> 03:16:04,020
and an intentional
misrepresentation and you want

4051
03:16:04,020 --> 03:16:05,270
to set the record straight.

4052
03:16:05,270 --> 03:16:08,290


4053
03:16:08,290 --> 03:16:12,000
Open meeting says you
can do what you want.

4054
03:16:12,000 --> 03:16:15,170
Pc rule suggests that you
close the post and say nothing.

4055
03:16:15,170 --> 03:16:26,120


4056
03:16:26,120 --> 03:16:28,340
What do you mean
for instead of them

4057
03:16:28,340 --> 03:16:30,300
the planning, the city council.

4058
03:16:30,300 --> 03:16:33,230
These rules were proposed
by the planning commission

4059
03:16:33,230 --> 03:16:35,570
and adopted.

4060
03:16:35,570 --> 03:16:37,640
How long ago is that?

4061
03:16:37,640 --> 03:16:41,190
Probably about 20 minutes after
the city was incorporated.

4062
03:16:41,190 --> 03:16:43,040
OK a couple of hours.

4063
03:16:43,040 --> 03:16:44,240
I mean, if you want
to look at them,

4064
03:16:44,240 --> 03:16:45,175
we can look at them again.

4065
03:16:45,175 --> 03:16:48,010


4066
03:16:48,010 --> 03:16:51,530
A question on that one.

4067
03:16:51,530 --> 03:16:53,090
Because occasionally
I will see I

4068
03:16:53,090 --> 03:16:55,560
don't get involved in all the.

4069
03:16:55,560 --> 03:16:57,570
Clamour that's going on.

4070
03:16:57,570 --> 03:17:01,980
Well, I'll say here's a
link to that has the packet.

4071
03:17:01,980 --> 03:17:04,860


4072
03:17:04,860 --> 03:17:07,500
You know, I'll put here's
a link where you can

4073
03:17:07,500 --> 03:17:09,070
find more information about it.

4074
03:17:09,070 --> 03:17:10,690
And I just put that in there.

4075
03:17:10,690 --> 03:17:12,520
But I'm not saying
anything about it.

4076
03:17:12,520 --> 03:17:14,200
To me, that feels like
that should be appropriate.

4077
03:17:14,200 --> 03:17:16,230
It's just information
that's public information

4078
03:17:16,230 --> 03:17:18,280
and it's just
linking them to the.

4079
03:17:18,280 --> 03:17:21,720
That's probably OK,
but I would think

4080
03:17:21,720 --> 03:17:23,780
it's in the city's interest.

4081
03:17:23,780 --> 03:17:26,460
Yeah yeah, me too.

4082
03:17:26,460 --> 03:17:29,550
Well probably is.

4083
03:17:29,550 --> 03:17:33,910
But I don't know if it's
your job to protect the city.

4084
03:17:33,910 --> 03:17:34,820
Well, no, I was.

4085
03:17:34,820 --> 03:17:38,540
It's even stuff about even.

4086
03:17:38,540 --> 03:17:39,960
Stuff that is coming to us.

4087
03:17:39,960 --> 03:17:43,100
Like, you know, people
make comments all the time

4088
03:17:43,100 --> 03:17:45,780
on like Facebook's old now.

4089
03:17:45,780 --> 03:17:48,360
So it's the neighbors app
like every single day.

4090
03:17:48,360 --> 03:17:50,070
There's just weird stuff.

4091
03:17:50,070 --> 03:17:53,590
And there are times too, I've
sent a couple and I'm like.

4092
03:17:53,590 --> 03:17:57,350
This is I'm not sure this
is correct information.

4093
03:17:57,350 --> 03:18:00,490
Here's a link to
the city's website

4094
03:18:00,490 --> 03:18:02,390
that has the factual data on it.

4095
03:18:02,390 --> 03:18:05,110
I think you're OK with that
if you do nothing more.

4096
03:18:05,110 --> 03:18:08,020
Yeah, I think I don't get
involved in the conversation,

4097
03:18:08,020 --> 03:18:08,693
but I don't either.

4098
03:18:08,693 --> 03:18:10,360
I think it was somebody
with a Porsche dealership.

4099
03:18:10,360 --> 03:18:11,320
Somebody was like, yeah,
they're going to take up

4100
03:18:11,320 --> 03:18:12,550
that whole parcel
and they're going

4101
03:18:12,550 --> 03:18:14,750
to build this huge building.

4102
03:18:14,750 --> 03:18:17,140
And so I just like, oh,
here's a link to the packet,

4103
03:18:17,140 --> 03:18:18,530
has some pictures.

4104
03:18:18,530 --> 03:18:21,250
It contains some
obvious misinformation

4105
03:18:21,250 --> 03:18:24,250
and is considered
outrageous and an

4106
03:18:24,250 --> 03:18:29,070
intentional misrepresentation
happens all the time.

4107
03:18:29,070 --> 03:18:32,220
And if you feel like
you need to give a link,

4108
03:18:32,220 --> 03:18:34,380
you're probably OK with that.

4109
03:18:34,380 --> 03:18:36,210
I wouldn't say anything more.

4110
03:18:36,210 --> 03:18:38,500
Yeah, I never would
give an opinion.

4111
03:18:38,500 --> 03:18:40,830
And I wouldn't even say that
this is where the accurate

4112
03:18:40,830 --> 03:18:43,470
information is, because
what the people are saying

4113
03:18:43,470 --> 03:18:45,450
is that's not accurate.

4114
03:18:45,450 --> 03:18:49,030
Yeah because then
you start expressing

4115
03:18:49,030 --> 03:18:52,360
your opinion that isn't
related to planning commission.

4116
03:18:52,360 --> 03:18:54,110
So I'll give you an example.

4117
03:18:54,110 --> 03:18:55,840
Somebody who was posting.

4118
03:18:55,840 --> 03:18:59,560
It's been a month or so
probably about something that

4119
03:18:59,560 --> 03:19:02,420
was going on in Mill Creek.

4120
03:19:02,420 --> 03:19:05,410
Like if it's not on
the council agenda,

4121
03:19:05,410 --> 03:19:07,990
if it's not on the
commission agenda, it's not.

4122
03:19:07,990 --> 03:19:11,630
Yeah Yes.

4123
03:19:11,630 --> 03:19:12,880
After it's over.

4124
03:19:12,880 --> 03:19:17,840
OK like you get a comment about
signs tonight or something?

4125
03:19:17,840 --> 03:19:20,780
Yeah, because it's over.

4126
03:19:20,780 --> 03:19:26,520
Well, at least our part
is right for the moment.

4127
03:19:26,520 --> 03:19:28,420
OK inspecting property.

4128
03:19:28,420 --> 03:19:30,930
You are a diligent
member of the commission

4129
03:19:30,930 --> 03:19:33,330
and you visit a
property that has

4130
03:19:33,330 --> 03:19:35,910
a pending conditional
use application

4131
03:19:35,910 --> 03:19:37,770
before the Commission.

4132
03:19:37,770 --> 03:19:41,070
Is there a problem with that?

4133
03:19:41,070 --> 03:19:43,120
No violation of
the Open Meetings.

4134
03:19:43,120 --> 03:19:46,440
No violation of the PC rules.

4135
03:19:46,440 --> 03:19:48,130
Best practices is.

4136
03:19:48,130 --> 03:19:52,380
You might want to explain what
you observed to the planning

4137
03:19:52,380 --> 03:19:54,360
commission at the open meeting.

4138
03:19:54,360 --> 03:19:56,540
Give them.

4139
03:19:56,540 --> 03:19:59,380
The benefit of your inspection.

4140
03:19:59,380 --> 03:20:02,520
Best practice not required.

4141
03:20:02,520 --> 03:20:03,440
And on that one I did.

4142
03:20:03,440 --> 03:20:04,480
I've done that a few times.

4143
03:20:04,480 --> 03:20:05,280
But I talked.

4144
03:20:05,280 --> 03:20:07,680
I knocked on the door,
told them who I was,

4145
03:20:07,680 --> 03:20:10,270
and let them up
front like I'm here.

4146
03:20:10,270 --> 03:20:12,000
Just get some information
from you, if that's OK.

4147
03:20:12,000 --> 03:20:15,990
They were always great, but told
them like because of, you know,

4148
03:20:15,990 --> 03:20:16,870
it's pending.

4149
03:20:16,870 --> 03:20:20,170
We can't talk about
my opinion of it.

4150
03:20:20,170 --> 03:20:23,240
And they appreciated
that and they we didn't.

4151
03:20:23,240 --> 03:20:25,710
Go down that path
with the conversation.

4152
03:20:25,710 --> 03:20:27,540
And then I did talk to
the commission like, hey,

4153
03:20:27,540 --> 03:20:30,280
so I visited this guy and I got
some additional information.

4154
03:20:30,280 --> 03:20:31,560
This is what it was.

4155
03:20:31,560 --> 03:20:35,130
OK permitted to ask.

4156
03:20:35,130 --> 03:20:38,560


4157
03:20:38,560 --> 03:20:39,680
If they're here?

4158
03:20:39,680 --> 03:20:44,330
Yes oh, you know what?

4159
03:20:44,330 --> 03:20:46,750
How about 4.5 right here?

4160
03:20:46,750 --> 03:20:50,230
While inspecting the
property and conditioning,

4161
03:20:50,230 --> 03:20:53,800
the owner comes out,
approaches, and wants

4162
03:20:53,800 --> 03:20:56,920
to discuss the conditional
use application.

4163
03:20:56,920 --> 03:20:59,230
Is that a problem?

4164
03:20:59,230 --> 03:21:00,250
It's not.

4165
03:21:00,250 --> 03:21:02,170
Well, we're not in
Minnesota and we're

4166
03:21:02,170 --> 03:21:05,710
not in Kansas or Kansas City.

4167
03:21:05,710 --> 03:21:09,380
I really have an
objection to this.

4168
03:21:09,380 --> 03:21:12,960
I have.

4169
03:21:12,960 --> 03:21:14,580
I mean, I guess I
can't change it,

4170
03:21:14,580 --> 03:21:16,660
but I felt like it
was really helpful.

4171
03:21:16,660 --> 03:21:18,690
It's not like I'm
going to be persuaded

4172
03:21:18,690 --> 03:21:22,570
by them any more than I
would be if they came here.

4173
03:21:22,570 --> 03:21:24,660
I feel like it closes
down information.

4174
03:21:24,660 --> 03:21:26,710
OK, so let's see
what my answer is.

4175
03:21:26,710 --> 03:21:27,330
All right.

4176
03:21:27,330 --> 03:21:29,770
It's not a violation of
the Open Meetings Law.

4177
03:21:29,770 --> 03:21:32,280
Right but it is a
violation of the rules.

4178
03:21:32,280 --> 03:21:35,220
Right which I
disagree with them.

4179
03:21:35,220 --> 03:21:41,280
So I think we should review our
rules best practice recommend

4180
03:21:41,280 --> 03:21:43,830
that it is not appropriate for
them to discuss this matter

4181
03:21:43,830 --> 03:21:44,800
and walk away.

4182
03:21:44,800 --> 03:21:48,210
Tell them to come and make their
case to the entire planning

4183
03:21:48,210 --> 03:21:49,030
commission.

4184
03:21:49,030 --> 03:21:52,467


4185
03:21:52,467 --> 03:21:54,300
Right I mean, you may have
gotten I'm just telling you,

4186
03:21:54,300 --> 03:21:56,080
you may have gotten
some good information.

4187
03:21:56,080 --> 03:21:57,720
But there's no
question in my mind

4188
03:21:57,720 --> 03:22:00,620
that that's an
ex-parte communication.

4189
03:22:00,620 --> 03:22:02,930
And you have information
that the rest of the body

4190
03:22:02,930 --> 03:22:03,920
doesn't have.

4191
03:22:03,920 --> 03:22:06,820
And that's the rationale for.

4192
03:22:06,820 --> 03:22:10,600
Not allowing you that part
that we all have information

4193
03:22:10,600 --> 03:22:13,330
in our heads that we use,
and if we didn't, we wouldn't

4194
03:22:13,330 --> 03:22:14,630
be on the planning commission.

4195
03:22:14,630 --> 03:22:17,110
So, I mean.

4196
03:22:17,110 --> 03:22:19,610
Well, that's true, but
that's about everything.

4197
03:22:19,610 --> 03:22:22,390
That's not about a
pending application

4198
03:22:22,390 --> 03:22:23,630
in front of the council.

4199
03:22:23,630 --> 03:22:27,020
I lived in a different system
and I don't agree with it.

4200
03:22:27,020 --> 03:22:29,680
But what we have and I will
follow what we're supposed

4201
03:22:29,680 --> 03:22:31,660
to do before I remember going
through some of this training

4202
03:22:31,660 --> 03:22:36,190
and maybe a few years
ago was OK for us

4203
03:22:36,190 --> 03:22:37,610
not to give opinions on it.

4204
03:22:37,610 --> 03:22:39,520
But then because I
would come back and say,

4205
03:22:39,520 --> 03:22:42,823
hey, I visited the guy and I
said this where I found out

4206
03:22:42,823 --> 03:22:43,990
I didn't talk about
opinions of it,

4207
03:22:43,990 --> 03:22:45,690
but I did gather
additional information.

4208
03:22:45,690 --> 03:22:47,660
I shared it and at least
the rules at that point.

4209
03:22:47,660 --> 03:22:48,910
So that wasn't an
ex parte as long

4210
03:22:48,910 --> 03:22:51,070
as the rest of the Commission
has the same information

4211
03:22:51,070 --> 03:22:51,710
that I got.

4212
03:22:51,710 --> 03:22:52,600
Right I remember that.

4213
03:22:52,600 --> 03:22:56,410
Well, that would be the best
practice if you're involved

4214
03:22:56,410 --> 03:22:58,280
in ex parte communication.

4215
03:22:58,280 --> 03:23:01,090
One one thing that
I think we could do

4216
03:23:01,090 --> 03:23:07,210
is Commissioner Lamar,
commissioner reed, John Brown

4217
03:23:07,210 --> 03:23:13,570
and I Let's go to lunch and talk
about amendments to the rules

4218
03:23:13,570 --> 03:23:16,540
of procedure that
are appropriate

4219
03:23:16,540 --> 03:23:20,450
and see if we can kind address
some of the concerns that way.

4220
03:23:20,450 --> 03:23:22,960
Yeah, because I think we could
iron out some of the details

4221
03:23:22,960 --> 03:23:25,510
and make sure that we're
still following the spirit,

4222
03:23:25,510 --> 03:23:27,970
but also make sure the language.

4223
03:23:27,970 --> 03:23:30,110
Yeah And we're not in
violation of the language.

4224
03:23:30,110 --> 03:23:35,470
There's a body of law around
the rationale for the rule

4225
03:23:35,470 --> 03:23:37,400
of no ex parte communication.

4226
03:23:37,400 --> 03:23:41,290
So just because we want to do
it doesn't mean we can or we

4227
03:23:41,290 --> 03:23:43,360
should, because there's
this body of law

4228
03:23:43,360 --> 03:23:47,020
that we have to look at and
see what we can do and not do.

4229
03:23:47,020 --> 03:23:50,740
For the record on that part, I
think we should not be talking

4230
03:23:50,740 --> 03:23:53,770
to the applicants
outside of this meeting

4231
03:23:53,770 --> 03:23:56,680
because it just seems
that it would appear

4232
03:23:56,680 --> 03:23:59,890
to be favorable or favoritism
and it just doesn't

4233
03:23:59,890 --> 03:24:01,010
seem like we should be talking.

4234
03:24:01,010 --> 03:24:04,190
We can visit the site, take
pictures, do whatever we want,

4235
03:24:04,190 --> 03:24:06,080
and share that back here.

4236
03:24:06,080 --> 03:24:10,010
But I disagree that or
I agree with the rule

4237
03:24:10,010 --> 03:24:13,160
and disagree with the comments
that we should be able to talk

4238
03:24:13,160 --> 03:24:15,480
to the pending applicant.

4239
03:24:15,480 --> 03:24:18,230
So could it be like, would
you be agreeable if we show up

4240
03:24:18,230 --> 03:24:19,880
as their private property,
like, hey, I want to,

4241
03:24:19,880 --> 03:24:21,710
you know, I'm on the
commission, I want

4242
03:24:21,710 --> 03:24:23,780
to look at a couple of things.

4243
03:24:23,780 --> 03:24:27,750
Is it permissible for me
to look at whatever it is.

4244
03:24:27,750 --> 03:24:29,860
But then just not talk?

4245
03:24:29,860 --> 03:24:31,180
To them about
getting additional.

4246
03:24:31,180 --> 03:24:34,180
I guess it's their option to
allow you on the property,

4247
03:24:34,180 --> 03:24:35,980
but it just seems like we
shouldn't be talking to them

4248
03:24:35,980 --> 03:24:38,620
prior to this public meeting.

4249
03:24:38,620 --> 03:24:41,360
That's my opinion.

4250
03:24:41,360 --> 03:24:42,830
If you want to
enter the property,

4251
03:24:42,830 --> 03:24:46,760
the planning commission has
authority to enter property.

4252
03:24:46,760 --> 03:24:49,280
Statutorily so it's
probably not a trespass,

4253
03:24:49,280 --> 03:24:51,200
but I wouldn't go on
anybody's property

4254
03:24:51,200 --> 03:24:53,690
without asking them regardless.

4255
03:24:53,690 --> 03:24:58,180
Yeah probably get shot
or get the dog after you.

4256
03:24:58,180 --> 03:24:59,610
I mean, one of them
was a while back.

4257
03:24:59,610 --> 03:25:02,660
And they had a horse property
there off 13th and little South

4258
03:25:02,660 --> 03:25:03,980
of 45th.

4259
03:25:03,980 --> 03:25:06,497
And I think he wanted
to build a stable.

4260
03:25:06,497 --> 03:25:07,730
But if you're talking
to him, there's

4261
03:25:07,730 --> 03:25:09,150
no question that's ex-parte.

4262
03:25:09,150 --> 03:25:11,000
Right but I was
just asking like,

4263
03:25:11,000 --> 03:25:12,890
so where is this
your property or is

4264
03:25:12,890 --> 03:25:14,130
this the neighbor's fence?

4265
03:25:14,130 --> 03:25:16,100
And then he was like, no,
this is my fence and this

4266
03:25:16,100 --> 03:25:16,770
and was that.

4267
03:25:16,770 --> 03:25:19,860
And I did come back and disclose
it because it helped to me.

4268
03:25:19,860 --> 03:25:24,470
It helped the commission
and me understand

4269
03:25:24,470 --> 03:25:27,330
like, where is his pasture
and where is that stream?

4270
03:25:27,330 --> 03:25:28,590
Oh, that's his
neighbor's stream.

4271
03:25:28,590 --> 03:25:31,580
I cannot argue
that it's helpful.

4272
03:25:31,580 --> 03:25:34,620
But that's ex parte
communication.

4273
03:25:34,620 --> 03:25:37,280
So we'd have to if we
wanted to do that, we

4274
03:25:37,280 --> 03:25:39,890
would need to update our rules.

4275
03:25:39,890 --> 03:25:42,920
But there's also this
body of law around it

4276
03:25:42,920 --> 03:25:47,800
that precludes it's
well, it's state law.

4277
03:25:47,800 --> 03:25:50,500
Some of judicially created.

4278
03:25:50,500 --> 03:25:52,630
The city council can go
and talk and they're not.

4279
03:25:52,630 --> 03:25:54,170
But all the difference.

4280
03:25:54,170 --> 03:25:56,440
Is there an elected official?

4281
03:25:56,440 --> 03:25:59,350
And their decisions
are legislative

4282
03:25:59,350 --> 03:26:03,800
and they can make it upon
save the well or whatever.

4283
03:26:03,800 --> 03:26:04,700
But you can't.

4284
03:26:04,700 --> 03:26:09,190
You have to have a rational
basis for your decision.

4285
03:26:09,190 --> 03:26:10,490
No, no.

4286
03:26:10,490 --> 03:26:11,480
And I mean, I agree.

4287
03:26:11,480 --> 03:26:13,120
I don't really want
someone to lobby me,

4288
03:26:13,120 --> 03:26:15,130
but I like to be able to talk.

4289
03:26:15,130 --> 03:26:16,520
Questions like
the kind of thing.

4290
03:26:16,520 --> 03:26:19,170


4291
03:26:19,170 --> 03:26:21,250
I can tell you it's a
problem, slippery slope.

4292
03:26:21,250 --> 03:26:23,380
Because when you
talk to the person.

4293
03:26:23,380 --> 03:26:25,200
And the person that
doesn't want it

4294
03:26:25,200 --> 03:26:28,620
hears that you talk to
the person who wants it,

4295
03:26:28,620 --> 03:26:29,860
then you've got a problem.

4296
03:26:29,860 --> 03:26:31,900
Then we got the
city has a problem.

4297
03:26:31,900 --> 03:26:35,140
And that's my that's my argument
for it should happen here.

4298
03:26:35,140 --> 03:26:38,580
So that all the people have an
opinion gets at the same time

4299
03:26:38,580 --> 03:26:42,190
because that's what I would
hate it if someone said, well,

4300
03:26:42,190 --> 03:26:43,033
why did you talk to them?

4301
03:26:43,033 --> 03:26:43,900
But you didn't talk to me.

4302
03:26:43,900 --> 03:26:44,800
I live right next door.

4303
03:26:44,800 --> 03:26:46,260
I don't I don't want
this retaining wall on

4304
03:26:46,260 --> 03:26:47,960
this property, you know, like.

4305
03:26:47,960 --> 03:26:50,550
And then the next
door one and the next.

4306
03:26:50,550 --> 03:26:53,070
It's a slippery slope never end.

4307
03:26:53,070 --> 03:26:56,160
My recommendation is, is if
they want to if they come

4308
03:26:56,160 --> 03:26:59,940
out like this, hypothetical.

4309
03:26:59,940 --> 03:27:03,090
Um, tell them to come to
the planning commission

4310
03:27:03,090 --> 03:27:05,370
and tell everybody.

4311
03:27:05,370 --> 03:27:09,000
Bring the pitcher or
whatever so you can explain

4312
03:27:09,000 --> 03:27:10,310
where the fence line is.

4313
03:27:10,310 --> 03:27:15,570


4314
03:27:15,570 --> 03:27:19,620
OK there's 4.5.

4315
03:27:19,620 --> 03:27:22,120
OK, so what are
your obligations?

4316
03:27:22,120 --> 03:27:24,400
Discuss and disclose
communication.

4317
03:27:24,400 --> 03:27:26,760
That's what you
did in that case.

4318
03:27:26,760 --> 03:27:29,460
And depending upon
what you heard

4319
03:27:29,460 --> 03:27:31,680
and when I talked to
Francis about this,

4320
03:27:31,680 --> 03:27:37,530
this is a drastic result. Or
you may want to recuse yourself

4321
03:27:37,530 --> 03:27:38,765
depending upon what you heard.

4322
03:27:38,765 --> 03:27:44,240


4323
03:27:44,240 --> 03:27:47,150
So this is not
necessarily a conflict.

4324
03:27:47,150 --> 03:27:50,550
They didn't, you know, slip
you $100 to vote for them.

4325
03:27:50,550 --> 03:27:52,830
You know, that would be
a conflict of interest.

4326
03:27:52,830 --> 03:27:54,900
But because it's got
to be 500 at least.

4327
03:27:54,900 --> 03:27:55,450
Yeah OK.

4328
03:27:55,450 --> 03:27:58,140


4329
03:27:58,140 --> 03:28:02,820
When you heard you were all
driving them, aren't we?

4330
03:28:02,820 --> 03:28:05,610
Have you seen mine?

4331
03:28:05,610 --> 03:28:11,460
So if you are allowed to buy
a Porsche ever in this room,

4332
03:28:11,460 --> 03:28:13,475
ever, ever.

4333
03:28:13,475 --> 03:28:16,070


4334
03:28:16,070 --> 03:28:18,140
So buy a Lamborghini
for all I care.

4335
03:28:18,140 --> 03:28:21,200
Just never, ever buy a Porsche.

4336
03:28:21,200 --> 03:28:22,340
A Ferrari maybe.

4337
03:28:22,340 --> 03:28:25,040
So if you're involved in
ex-party communication,

4338
03:28:25,040 --> 03:28:26,550
this is what your obligation is.

4339
03:28:26,550 --> 03:28:29,960
And this is exactly
what Chairman Lamar did.

4340
03:28:29,960 --> 03:28:32,700
Discussed or disclose
it to the council.

4341
03:28:32,700 --> 03:28:35,090
In the meeting you
discussed and disclosed

4342
03:28:35,090 --> 03:28:37,850
the ex parte communication.

4343
03:28:37,850 --> 03:28:39,690
Number five.

4344
03:28:39,690 --> 03:28:42,420
You are approached by
a fellow commission

4345
03:28:42,420 --> 03:28:46,980
member regarding a
pending conditional use

4346
03:28:46,980 --> 03:28:49,300
application one on one.

4347
03:28:49,300 --> 03:28:53,710
Is it a problem or is it not?

4348
03:28:53,710 --> 03:28:56,260
Drum roll.

4349
03:28:56,260 --> 03:29:01,940
Open meetings, no violation,
PC rule, no violation.

4350
03:29:01,940 --> 03:29:02,900
You can do it.

4351
03:29:02,900 --> 03:29:06,010
You can talk one on one
among the planning commission

4352
03:29:06,010 --> 03:29:10,140
as long as it doesn't
turn into a quorum.

4353
03:29:10,140 --> 03:29:11,760
So we can talk
about our opinions

4354
03:29:11,760 --> 03:29:13,920
and the virtues you favor.

4355
03:29:13,920 --> 03:29:15,340
You can talk to.

4356
03:29:15,340 --> 03:29:16,270
Yeah oh, Wow.

4357
03:29:16,270 --> 03:29:19,750
Did Victoria as
much as you want.

4358
03:29:19,750 --> 03:29:23,020
OK OK.

4359
03:29:23,020 --> 03:29:24,230
As long as it's one on one.

4360
03:29:24,230 --> 03:29:26,990
As long as it doesn't turn
into more than five people.

4361
03:29:26,990 --> 03:29:30,980
But if it's electronic,
you can do it.

4362
03:29:30,980 --> 03:29:33,330
Which is absurd, but
that's what it is.

4363
03:29:33,330 --> 03:29:36,870


4364
03:29:36,870 --> 03:29:39,410
OK number six.

4365
03:29:39,410 --> 03:29:42,140
You are confused
by a staff report

4366
03:29:42,140 --> 03:29:47,310
and you call staff
for clarification.

4367
03:29:47,310 --> 03:29:50,010
Good job.

4368
03:29:50,010 --> 03:29:50,510
What?

4369
03:29:50,510 --> 03:29:53,180


4370
03:29:53,180 --> 03:29:54,270
give us a second here.

4371
03:29:54,270 --> 03:30:07,600


4372
03:30:07,600 --> 03:30:12,200
OK we were at number
six, I think, right?

4373
03:30:12,200 --> 03:30:14,110
OK you call Francis.

4374
03:30:14,110 --> 03:30:15,620
Hey, what is you?

4375
03:30:15,620 --> 03:30:18,060
What are you talking about?

4376
03:30:18,060 --> 03:30:21,210
It is not a violation of
the Open Meetings Act.

4377
03:30:21,210 --> 03:30:26,410
It's not a violation
of the PC rules.

4378
03:30:26,410 --> 03:30:33,040
And it actually is probably best
practice to clarify with staff.

4379
03:30:33,040 --> 03:30:38,820
If you have question and
discuss it in the PC meeting.

4380
03:30:38,820 --> 03:30:40,260
Or I will.

4381
03:30:40,260 --> 03:30:41,080
Or we will.

4382
03:30:41,080 --> 03:30:41,920
Francis will.

4383
03:30:41,920 --> 03:30:45,900


4384
03:30:45,900 --> 03:30:47,020
Any questions?

4385
03:30:47,020 --> 03:30:49,810


4386
03:30:49,810 --> 03:30:53,760
You have been deemed trained.

4387
03:30:53,760 --> 03:30:55,320
Thank you.

4388
03:30:55,320 --> 03:30:56,390
Whipping us into shape.

4389
03:30:56,390 --> 03:31:01,100
There OK.

4390
03:31:01,100 --> 03:31:04,090
We need to do a motion.

4391
03:31:04,090 --> 03:31:04,700
I'll do that.

4392
03:31:04,700 --> 03:31:09,230
We have approval of the
January meeting minutes.

4393
03:31:09,230 --> 03:31:10,370
Thank you, Elise.

4394
03:31:10,370 --> 03:31:11,840
I think you put those together.

4395
03:31:11,840 --> 03:31:12,970
Was that alex?

4396
03:31:12,970 --> 03:31:14,230
That was Alex.

4397
03:31:14,230 --> 03:31:15,580
Did a good job.

4398
03:31:15,580 --> 03:31:18,790
I didn't read every
word for word, but.

4399
03:31:18,790 --> 03:31:20,950
You go browse through it.

4400
03:31:20,950 --> 03:31:23,140
Hopefully she didn't change him.

4401
03:31:23,140 --> 03:31:23,750
Because that's.

4402
03:31:23,750 --> 03:31:26,150
That's what makes
it so she could.

4403
03:31:26,150 --> 03:31:27,110
That's the.

4404
03:31:27,110 --> 03:31:30,680
So I make a motion to
approve the January 17

4405
03:31:30,680 --> 03:31:34,800
minutes as presented by staff.

4406
03:31:34,800 --> 03:31:39,750
Second and a second by Lofgren.

4407
03:31:39,750 --> 03:31:43,870
Nils Lamar made a motion and.

4408
03:31:43,870 --> 03:31:46,820
Lofgren the second.

4409
03:31:46,820 --> 03:31:48,850
All in favor say Yes or aye?

4410
03:31:48,850 --> 03:31:51,800
Aye anybody opposed?

4411
03:31:51,800 --> 03:31:56,730
Updates from the
planning director.

4412
03:31:56,730 --> 03:32:03,720
No Thank you all for everything.

4413
03:32:03,720 --> 03:32:08,690
I appreciate your time,
your willingness to.

4414
03:32:08,690 --> 03:32:12,180
Discuss with me privately.

4415
03:32:12,180 --> 03:32:14,890
And publicly issues
great and small.

4416
03:32:14,890 --> 03:32:16,170
I just really enjoy
working with you.

4417
03:32:16,170 --> 03:32:16,970
So thank you.

4418
03:32:16,970 --> 03:32:17,490
Thank you.

4419
03:32:17,490 --> 03:32:20,720
Thanks for helping craft
motions on the fly.

4420
03:32:20,720 --> 03:32:21,710
Does that help?

4421
03:32:21,710 --> 03:32:23,870
Yeah, if I write them
into the PowerPoint

4422
03:32:23,870 --> 03:32:24,960
presentation like that.

4423
03:32:24,960 --> 03:32:26,210
Yeah OK.

4424
03:32:26,210 --> 03:32:28,910
Because I don't want
to, like, lead you on

4425
03:32:28,910 --> 03:32:31,190
and I don't want to lead you
astray, but I want to of, like,

4426
03:32:31,190 --> 03:32:32,040
help you.

4427
03:32:32,040 --> 03:32:33,320
Yeah, so.

4428
03:32:33,320 --> 03:32:35,930
So I appreciate that.

4429
03:32:35,930 --> 03:32:40,490
Francis and then, you know,
we've had some light agendas.

4430
03:32:40,490 --> 03:32:42,840
What what is spring
summer look like?

4431
03:32:42,840 --> 03:32:43,680
Do you have any idea?

4432
03:32:43,680 --> 03:32:46,820
Are there a lot of
developers gearing up or.

4433
03:32:46,820 --> 03:32:49,460
I think it's going
to gear up again.

4434
03:32:49,460 --> 03:32:52,010
What what I think what
we're experiencing

4435
03:32:52,010 --> 03:32:54,540
is kind of an echo of
the high interest rates.

4436
03:32:54,540 --> 03:32:57,963
But now the interest rates
are beginning to go down.

4437
03:32:57,963 --> 03:32:59,330
You know, the Fed has
announced that they

4438
03:32:59,330 --> 03:33:02,930
plan on doing some cuts here
in the next quarterly meeting.

4439
03:33:02,930 --> 03:33:07,530
You know, I expect there's
going to be more interest.

4440
03:33:07,530 --> 03:33:10,500
Moving into summer.

4441
03:33:10,500 --> 03:33:11,680
So cool.

4442
03:33:11,680 --> 03:33:13,800
Yeah all righty.

4443
03:33:13,800 --> 03:33:16,560
We just need one more
motion to adjourn.

4444
03:33:16,560 --> 03:33:19,000
I'll make a motion to
adjourn our March meeting.

4445
03:33:19,000 --> 03:33:21,720
Second All in favor?

4446
03:33:21,720 --> 03:33:25,080
Aye any opposed?

4447
03:33:25,080 --> 03:33:27,780
Thank you for pizza as well.

4448
03:33:27,780 --> 03:33:30,740
Is this from the New.

4449
03:33:30,740 --> 03:33:33,000