1 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,195 Are you ready? 2 00:01:59,195 --> 00:01:59,695 Yeah. 3 00:01:59,695 --> 00:02:00,195 OK. 4 00:02:00,195 --> 00:02:01,293 Kurt, we're up. 5 00:02:01,293 --> 00:02:01,793 Okay. 6 00:02:01,793 --> 00:02:02,569 Hello, everyone. 7 00:02:02,569 --> 00:02:03,733 The time is 5:03 p.m.. 8 00:02:03,733 --> 00:02:04,315 Appreciate it. 9 00:02:04,315 --> 00:02:06,295 Is August 24 2026. 10 00:02:06,295 --> 00:02:09,055 We are here for the Mill Creek City Council work session 11 00:02:09,055 --> 00:02:10,735 Present are council members. 12 00:02:10,735 --> 00:02:14,545 We be Caton desire it and handy and I'm Sherry Jackson. 13 00:02:14,545 --> 00:02:18,145 I'm the mayor and our first item on the agenda 14 00:02:18,145 --> 00:02:22,825 is a discussion for the missing middle housing and neighborhoods 15 00:02:22,825 --> 00:02:23,815 with Francis Lilly. 16 00:02:23,815 --> 00:02:25,495 Our assistance city manager. 17 00:02:25,495 --> 00:02:28,495 Tom, I know you've been very involved in this, 18 00:02:28,495 --> 00:02:31,765 so there's things You want to chime in on. 19 00:02:31,765 --> 00:02:33,325 Good evening Council. 20 00:02:33,325 --> 00:02:36,565 Thank you for your time So this follows up on a discussion 21 00:02:36,565 --> 00:02:40,585 that you had with Mike at our last meeting 22 00:02:40,585 --> 00:02:42,547 and this follows up with the discussion 23 00:02:42,547 --> 00:02:45,235 I had with the Planning Commission 24 00:02:45,235 --> 00:02:46,915 on Wednesday last Wednesday. 25 00:02:46,915 --> 00:02:52,465 So we're Mike, focused on the incentive side of increasing 26 00:02:52,465 --> 00:02:54,265 of Utah's supply of affordable housing 27 00:02:54,265 --> 00:02:59,665 in Mill Creek I'm going to be walking you through the planning 28 00:02:59,665 --> 00:03:04,448 and zoning tools, both the tools we've implemented so far, 29 00:03:04,448 --> 00:03:07,675 and some ideas for the future. 30 00:03:07,675 --> 00:03:11,065 It's so happens that we are, thanks to you 31 00:03:11,065 --> 00:03:14,942 your present decision to set aside some money in our general 32 00:03:14,942 --> 00:03:19,765 in our budget, we are working on a general plan update 33 00:03:19,765 --> 00:03:24,175 and the timing is right to work this 34 00:03:24,175 --> 00:03:26,485 into certain elements of the general plan 35 00:03:26,485 --> 00:03:29,155 and in a systematic way so that essentially be what 36 00:03:29,155 --> 00:03:30,385 our recommendation is tonight. 37 00:03:30,385 --> 00:03:37,195 But I wanted to start with reviewing where reviewing where 38 00:03:37,195 --> 00:03:39,835 Mike started his presentation a couple of weeks ago, 39 00:03:39,835 --> 00:03:43,765 and that is we do anticipate a fairly significant housing 40 00:03:43,765 --> 00:03:44,815 shortage by 2030. 41 00:03:44,815 --> 00:03:47,065 And this was data It's a few years old at this point, 42 00:03:47,065 --> 00:03:52,195 but this is data of supplied by Zions Bank public Finance 43 00:03:52,195 --> 00:03:56,125 to mill Creek for the millcreek housing report in 2024. 44 00:03:56,125 --> 00:04:00,685 However, the housing shortage is a little bit more nuanced 45 00:04:00,685 --> 00:04:04,615 when you look at the affordability thresholds that 46 00:04:04,615 --> 00:04:08,365 are identified in the report and act as kind 47 00:04:08,365 --> 00:04:11,515 of a baseline for housing affordability in the county 48 00:04:11,515 --> 00:04:13,030 at or below 30%. 49 00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:16,945 AMI So 100%. 50 00:04:16,945 --> 00:04:20,177 Ami for a family of two is about 70,000. 51 00:04:20,177 --> 00:04:23,354 OK So at, at or below 30%, AMI, there's 52 00:04:23,354 --> 00:04:28,018 going to be a housing shortage of, of 3401 units by 2030. 53 00:04:28,018 --> 00:04:31,435 Now that there's probably nothing 54 00:04:31,435 --> 00:04:35,815 that planning regulations set back rules, height rules 55 00:04:35,815 --> 00:04:39,205 and the like can do to solve that problem We could help, 56 00:04:39,205 --> 00:04:41,215 but we probably won't be able to solve that problem. 57 00:04:41,215 --> 00:04:44,065 That requires a level of significant government 58 00:04:44,065 --> 00:04:45,115 intervention. 59 00:04:45,115 --> 00:04:47,425 It really is that that 80 to 100% 60 00:04:47,425 --> 00:04:51,223 am I where maybe planning and zoning can make 61 00:04:51,223 --> 00:04:54,445 a significant difference Francis Let me ask a question 62 00:04:54,445 --> 00:04:57,163 So you have a jump between It shows 63 00:04:57,163 --> 00:04:59,335 that there's units for 50%. 64 00:04:59,335 --> 00:05:04,615 Am I then there's a deficit for 80% and then there's we're 65 00:05:04,615 --> 00:05:06,084 in the black again, 400%. 66 00:05:06,084 --> 00:05:07,134 How does that work? 67 00:05:07,134 --> 00:05:08,875 Because couldn't people who are in the 80%, 68 00:05:08,875 --> 00:05:12,775 am I i mean, how does that calculate Right. 69 00:05:12,775 --> 00:05:17,382 So what that talks about is that if you're if your income. 70 00:05:17,382 --> 00:05:20,515 So if you're if you are 50% Ami, what that means 71 00:05:20,515 --> 00:05:24,513 is that you can spend x dollars on mortgage or rent. 72 00:05:24,513 --> 00:05:26,739 And utilities right at 30% of your income 73 00:05:26,739 --> 00:05:30,835 is the category at that level There is anticipated 74 00:05:30,835 --> 00:05:33,946 to be a small surplus or 659 units 75 00:05:33,946 --> 00:05:37,375 of housing That's probably our 80 use. 76 00:05:37,375 --> 00:05:42,205 That's probably you know, some of the class c, 77 00:05:42,205 --> 00:05:45,895 you know, existing housing stock that's that's for rent out there 78 00:05:45,895 --> 00:05:47,035 That's probably what that is. 79 00:05:47,035 --> 00:05:51,265 But but each of those thresholds assumes a certain maximum income 80 00:05:51,265 --> 00:05:54,685 that you can allocate to rent but wouldn't then 81 00:05:54,685 --> 00:05:58,285 the people who are at 80% AMI I just rent those units? 82 00:05:58,285 --> 00:06:01,105 They could They could, but it kind of maybe 83 00:06:01,105 --> 00:06:04,250 squishes them, right and a little bit more right. 84 00:06:04,250 --> 00:06:08,035 That's a good point Frances, One question about that 85 00:06:08,035 --> 00:06:12,835 is that if all things remain the same or is 86 00:06:12,835 --> 00:06:17,288 that anticipating some growth in our housing stock. 87 00:06:17,288 --> 00:06:20,665 So that that does anticipate that was basically a snapshot. 88 00:06:20,665 --> 00:06:23,917 It did anticipate that the projects that we had approved 89 00:06:23,917 --> 00:06:27,565 would come online within the 2030 time horizon 90 00:06:27,565 --> 00:06:31,165 up to that point So everything that's been approved 91 00:06:31,165 --> 00:06:34,945 are entitled assuming it got built would be would be 92 00:06:34,945 --> 00:06:37,957 reflective of this Now the truth is every few years, 93 00:06:37,957 --> 00:06:40,328 we probably ought to revisit these numbers right 94 00:06:40,328 --> 00:06:42,672 And we might be at a point where we want to revisit 95 00:06:42,672 --> 00:06:45,235 these numbers, because it is just a point in time count 96 00:06:45,235 --> 00:06:50,245 and then, you know, it needs to be reevaluated What I do know is 97 00:06:50,245 --> 00:06:53,815 that, you know, mortgage interest rates are still high 98 00:06:53,815 --> 00:06:56,485 rent has rent rates have softened just a little bit, 99 00:06:56,485 --> 00:06:57,715 but not much. 100 00:06:57,715 --> 00:07:00,925 And so I don't anticipate these numbers being dramatically 101 00:07:00,925 --> 00:07:03,721 different now But they might be in some cases 102 00:07:03,721 --> 00:07:04,651 a little bit worse. 103 00:07:04,651 --> 00:07:06,366 And in some cases a little bit better. 104 00:07:06,366 --> 00:07:08,891 Can I ask, just to clarify and question on the AMA I 105 00:07:08,891 --> 00:07:12,265 so for people who are watching, am I for us is roughly what, 106 00:07:12,265 --> 00:07:14,341 78,000, more or less ? 107 00:07:14,341 --> 00:07:16,069 Yeah, for a family of two. 108 00:07:16,069 --> 00:07:17,365 So a change is right. 109 00:07:17,365 --> 00:07:20,746 So thousand 80% of that that works its way down. 110 00:07:20,746 --> 00:07:21,246 Correct. 111 00:07:21,246 --> 00:07:21,746 OK. 112 00:07:21,746 --> 00:07:24,535 Thank you So another way to look at the housing challenge 113 00:07:24,535 --> 00:07:26,185 is the median home value in Millcreek. 114 00:07:26,185 --> 00:07:30,595 And this is from Zillow As of today, it changes quite a bit, 115 00:07:30,595 --> 00:07:34,705 but according to Zillow, the median home value is 640,335 116 00:07:34,705 --> 00:07:37,135 bucks, which means that half of the homes 117 00:07:37,135 --> 00:07:39,085 in the market are worth less Half the homes 118 00:07:39,085 --> 00:07:40,825 in the market are worth more. 119 00:07:40,825 --> 00:07:43,825 And understand to be affordable at 100%. 120 00:07:43,825 --> 00:07:47,845 Am I based on what we expect mortgage 121 00:07:47,845 --> 00:07:49,465 interest rates to be right now? 122 00:07:49,465 --> 00:07:52,630 An affordable house is 400, about about $451,000. 123 00:07:52,630 --> 00:07:53,560 OK. 124 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:59,155 So most of our housing stock is priced well above affordability, 125 00:07:59,155 --> 00:08:01,195 but interestingly enough, the most interesting 126 00:08:01,195 --> 00:08:03,295 this is this graph that I found right. 127 00:08:03,295 --> 00:08:07,285 And you can see what's happened between 2019 and 2022. 128 00:08:07,285 --> 00:08:10,105 This wasn't always the story in Millcreek right Millcreek 129 00:08:10,105 --> 00:08:13,045 has always been known for an abundance of real high end 130 00:08:13,045 --> 00:08:15,269 housing But there was also housing 131 00:08:15,269 --> 00:08:16,765 opportunity down the line. 132 00:08:16,765 --> 00:08:20,275 And within the last within the last five years or so, 133 00:08:20,275 --> 00:08:22,945 that has changed pretty dramatically in our community. 134 00:08:22,945 --> 00:08:26,455 As it has elsewhere along the Wasatch Front 135 00:08:26,455 --> 00:08:29,845 So this next phase of this presentation 136 00:08:29,845 --> 00:08:34,195 really will go into a progress report on what we've done so 137 00:08:34,195 --> 00:08:39,895 far for affordable housing We pulled from our general plan 138 00:08:39,895 --> 00:08:44,155 to do this, to do this quick presentation for you next week I 139 00:08:44,155 --> 00:08:47,545 should have actually a full progress report on the entirety 140 00:08:47,545 --> 00:08:50,784 of our general plan where we look at every general plan goal 141 00:08:50,784 --> 00:08:54,115 and list out what we've what we've done so far. 142 00:08:54,115 --> 00:08:56,215 But for now, I want to just talk about housing. 143 00:08:56,215 --> 00:08:59,725 So both the general plan and state mandates 144 00:08:59,725 --> 00:09:02,785 required compelled us or encouraged 145 00:09:02,785 --> 00:09:06,565 us to to work on some station area 146 00:09:06,565 --> 00:09:10,645 plans to accommodate affordable housing in our Meadowbrook area. 147 00:09:10,645 --> 00:09:12,685 You know, ironically we had a lot of zoning 148 00:09:12,685 --> 00:09:14,755 in place that would support affordable housing, 149 00:09:14,755 --> 00:09:21,445 but we didn't have plans So this council approved the meadowbrook 150 00:09:21,445 --> 00:09:23,615 and Mill Creek Master plan and the Murray North Master Plan, 151 00:09:23,615 --> 00:09:24,715 both of which are stationed here. 152 00:09:24,715 --> 00:09:31,015 Plans and within the station areas or between them to we 153 00:09:31,015 --> 00:09:35,335 have approved since 2018 390 affordable housing units that 154 00:09:35,335 --> 00:09:40,285 are built or under construction in in in the in the Murray North 155 00:09:40,285 --> 00:09:44,066 and Meadowbrook Station area stationary plans the project 156 00:09:44,066 --> 00:09:47,665 to you right which is Howick is 140 157 00:09:47,665 --> 00:09:49,315 units of deeply affordable housing 158 00:09:49,315 --> 00:09:51,865 from I believe 35 to 65%. 159 00:09:51,865 --> 00:09:53,905 Am I It's a big project. 160 00:09:53,905 --> 00:09:56,935 It's a big deal for the community We've done progress. 161 00:09:56,935 --> 00:10:00,437 We've also approved through development agreement 162 00:10:00,437 --> 00:10:04,074 We've worked on affordability targets and we've and we that 163 00:10:04,074 --> 00:10:06,985 have yielded 30 new affordable housing units that are entitled 164 00:10:06,985 --> 00:10:10,995 six of which are built. That's the Capri homes at about 3,500 165 00:10:10,995 --> 00:10:13,465 south northeast Those are both deed 166 00:10:13,465 --> 00:10:16,045 restricted for affordability and owner occupancy. 167 00:10:16,045 --> 00:10:17,605 We did that without any sort of incentive. 168 00:10:17,605 --> 00:10:19,833 We just did it because it was the right thing to do. 169 00:10:19,833 --> 00:10:22,555 And and the developer was willing to do it. 170 00:10:22,555 --> 00:10:25,525 The project on the left is m.S. 2923 171 00:10:25,525 --> 00:10:27,055 In a condo project, the city council 172 00:10:27,055 --> 00:10:29,935 approved just about a month and a half ago. 173 00:10:29,935 --> 00:10:32,335 And that project, if you remember also 174 00:10:32,335 --> 00:10:34,705 involves participation with some of the incentives 175 00:10:34,705 --> 00:10:37,465 that Mike discussed at the meeting last week 176 00:10:37,465 --> 00:10:41,935 or last Two weeks ago Since 2024, we have 177 00:10:41,935 --> 00:10:43,300 reason for additional density. 178 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:43,890 OK. 179 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:45,205 We've done this all over the place, 180 00:10:45,205 --> 00:10:47,755 but I wanted to call out three particular units that 181 00:10:47,755 --> 00:10:49,921 were on corridors or near corridor 182 00:10:49,921 --> 00:10:53,440 or near areas of transit but also these are projects. 183 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,295 This list of five projects are ones that the council, 184 00:10:57,295 --> 00:11:00,265 in its deliberation and almost treated either affordability 185 00:11:00,265 --> 00:11:04,015 or owner occupancy or both as a sort of tiebreaker 186 00:11:04,015 --> 00:11:07,855 because the future land use map calls for certain thresholds 187 00:11:07,855 --> 00:11:08,455 on densities. 188 00:11:08,455 --> 00:11:10,075 And in some of these cases, the council 189 00:11:10,075 --> 00:11:13,055 has exceeded those thresholds because it met other targets 190 00:11:13,055 --> 00:11:15,715 in the general plan, including the provision 191 00:11:15,715 --> 00:11:18,985 of some sort of affordability target and/or owner occupancy. 192 00:11:18,985 --> 00:11:22,064 The project on the left on Garden Drive, our six CPLEX, 193 00:11:22,064 --> 00:11:22,564 right. 194 00:11:22,564 --> 00:11:25,555 And you remember we went through the process of working with them 195 00:11:25,555 --> 00:11:28,886 on designing these these units to look 196 00:11:28,886 --> 00:11:30,685 a resemble single family homes and 197 00:11:30,685 --> 00:11:32,395 they're under construction now. 198 00:11:32,395 --> 00:11:34,945 On the right is is the project at 4317 199 00:11:34,945 --> 00:11:37,525 south 700 east if you recall that's kind 200 00:11:37,525 --> 00:11:40,075 of a blended density that's that's a blended density 201 00:11:40,075 --> 00:11:42,055 and mixed affordable project. 202 00:11:42,055 --> 00:11:43,886 It's all market driven. 203 00:11:43,886 --> 00:11:47,965 So we don't have a subsidy in, in in either of these projects 204 00:11:47,965 --> 00:11:50,305 But I'm confident that the 14 units in the front, 205 00:11:50,305 --> 00:11:53,365 which are indicated by this elevation on the right, 206 00:11:53,365 --> 00:11:57,055 are going to be affordable just by virtue of their size 207 00:11:57,055 --> 00:11:59,395 and the way they're configured in the building. 208 00:11:59,395 --> 00:12:00,715 And this is a pretty good looking 209 00:12:00,715 --> 00:12:02,395 building from the street. 210 00:12:02,395 --> 00:12:05,875 So how big are these units Oh, gosh, about 211 00:12:05,875 --> 00:12:07,445 8 or 900ft² or one bedroom? 212 00:12:07,445 --> 00:12:07,945 Yeah. 213 00:12:07,945 --> 00:12:09,831 Our studio the one bedroom, 1 or 1 214 00:12:09,831 --> 00:12:13,593 bedroom, maybe 2, and some of them same with the Six CPLEX. 215 00:12:13,593 --> 00:12:16,795 The six CPLEX is a little bit bigger so they're probably 216 00:12:16,795 --> 00:12:22,585 two bed each of those Okay We have also reduced 217 00:12:22,585 --> 00:12:24,715 or you have reduced setbacks. 218 00:12:24,715 --> 00:12:26,065 Just an envelope requirements and 219 00:12:26,065 --> 00:12:28,405 increased lot coverage and smaller residential zones. 220 00:12:28,405 --> 00:12:29,845 These are relatively recent changes 221 00:12:29,845 --> 00:12:32,065 that we haven't seen a whole lot of action in the space, 222 00:12:32,065 --> 00:12:39,194 but we looked at the modest by design, if not because Two homes 223 00:12:39,194 --> 00:12:44,125 in daybreak to be a model for how we might make 224 00:12:44,125 --> 00:12:47,487 our one for our one, three, and our own five zones 225 00:12:47,487 --> 00:12:51,499 work a little bit better and we have we've 226 00:12:51,499 --> 00:12:53,263 made these adjustments to actually make 227 00:12:53,263 --> 00:12:56,755 it a little bit more easier for a home like this 228 00:12:56,755 --> 00:13:00,535 to be built in Mill Creek. 229 00:13:00,535 --> 00:13:05,744 I am anecdotal Ali, seeing a lot more interest in additions now 230 00:13:05,744 --> 00:13:07,795 I'm not seeing a lot of people beating 231 00:13:07,795 --> 00:13:10,255 down the door to build a house like this, though, right? 232 00:13:10,255 --> 00:13:11,755 What what people want to build is 233 00:13:11,755 --> 00:13:14,035 something far more, far more significant, 234 00:13:14,035 --> 00:13:16,045 even if it's on a small lot. 235 00:13:16,045 --> 00:13:20,905 But we have that there Oh, I'm sorry. 236 00:13:20,905 --> 00:13:23,845 That was from the previous slide Anyway, 237 00:13:23,845 --> 00:13:26,005 the the other project I want to talk about 238 00:13:26,005 --> 00:13:28,825 is this is interesting This will be the first time 239 00:13:28,825 --> 00:13:30,565 you've seen this. 240 00:13:30,565 --> 00:13:32,875 And this will probably be the last time you've seen this. 241 00:13:32,875 --> 00:13:34,945 And let me explain why. 242 00:13:34,945 --> 00:13:38,935 In 2025, as we did our zoning and subdivision code update, 243 00:13:38,935 --> 00:13:40,735 one of the things that the council decided 244 00:13:40,735 --> 00:13:43,825 was that affordable housing would be a permitted use, 245 00:13:43,825 --> 00:13:46,045 not a conditional use not a development agreement. 246 00:13:46,045 --> 00:13:47,635 It permitted use of the Planning Commission 247 00:13:47,635 --> 00:13:49,015 is not really going to see this project 248 00:13:49,015 --> 00:13:52,885 either Are solid County Housing authority which is now known 249 00:13:52,885 --> 00:13:56,905 as Housing Connect owns the owns the historic trailer 250 00:13:56,905 --> 00:13:59,965 park on Park Hill way between Second and third East. 251 00:13:59,965 --> 00:14:01,135 And they've owned it for a number 252 00:14:01,135 --> 00:14:04,555 of years They bought the trailers in fairly bad shape 253 00:14:04,555 --> 00:14:05,605 and maintain them. 254 00:14:05,605 --> 00:14:09,715 And eventually is working on a plan to rehouse the residents 255 00:14:09,715 --> 00:14:10,795 in these trailers. 256 00:14:10,795 --> 00:14:15,299 Most of them are aging out of the they're aging in place 257 00:14:15,299 --> 00:14:18,865 and substandard situation I was relieved that the county housing 258 00:14:18,865 --> 00:14:20,905 authority bought this project because I knew that it would 259 00:14:20,905 --> 00:14:22,105 take care of the clients there. 260 00:14:22,105 --> 00:14:22,885 Right. 261 00:14:22,885 --> 00:14:24,565 And in fact, they have a whole continuum 262 00:14:24,565 --> 00:14:27,445 of housing that would fit very well 263 00:14:27,445 --> 00:14:30,201 for what these folks needed. 264 00:14:30,201 --> 00:14:33,265 They never owned or they may have owned the trailers, 265 00:14:33,265 --> 00:14:34,495 but they never owned the land So it 266 00:14:34,495 --> 00:14:36,745 was always communally owned Well, 267 00:14:36,745 --> 00:14:39,025 here's what they want to do. 268 00:14:39,025 --> 00:14:43,945 They want to do 70 units of deeply affordable housing 35%. 269 00:14:43,945 --> 00:14:44,785 Am I? 270 00:14:44,785 --> 00:14:46,945 It's precisely at that target that we really 271 00:14:46,945 --> 00:14:50,275 can't do much by zoning But what we can do 272 00:14:50,275 --> 00:14:53,685 is we can make it easier for them to permit the project right 273 00:14:53,685 --> 00:14:56,125 and time equals money, especially 274 00:14:56,125 --> 00:14:57,655 for affordable housing projects where 275 00:14:57,655 --> 00:14:59,155 they're pursuing low income housing 276 00:14:59,155 --> 00:15:00,416 tax credits and the like. 277 00:15:00,416 --> 00:15:03,835 Right So they're actually pursuing a low income housing 278 00:15:03,835 --> 00:15:05,455 tax credit as a permitted project, 279 00:15:05,455 --> 00:15:08,335 not as a conditional use, not as a development agreement using 280 00:15:08,335 --> 00:15:10,435 the design standards that we have in our code 281 00:15:10,435 --> 00:15:14,155 And that's the type of building that it produces. 282 00:15:14,155 --> 00:15:15,265 We're pretty proud of this. 283 00:15:15,265 --> 00:15:17,275 We've just worked with them as staff to kind of come up 284 00:15:17,275 --> 00:15:20,395 with this project and 70 units of deeply affordable 285 00:15:20,395 --> 00:15:22,037 housing on the East side. 286 00:15:22,037 --> 00:15:25,405 I'm sorry, on the west side of this, they will be rentals. 287 00:15:25,405 --> 00:15:29,095 Yep Owned and managed by housing connect, which is the Salt 288 00:15:29,095 --> 00:15:31,465 Lake County Housing Authority. 289 00:15:31,465 --> 00:15:36,175 So this project is made possible by the permitted use provision 290 00:15:36,175 --> 00:15:39,115 and the density bonuses that are available in our code 291 00:15:39,115 --> 00:15:42,265 for affordable housing This is what the site 292 00:15:42,265 --> 00:15:43,285 plan is going to look like. 293 00:15:43,285 --> 00:15:47,005 So it will have covered parking a large garden on 294 00:15:47,005 --> 00:15:49,298 and you're looking at the West half of the site, right? 295 00:15:49,298 --> 00:15:53,095 If you look at the East, half of this bow tie shaped piece 296 00:15:53,095 --> 00:15:55,495 they want to subdivide that for affordable owner 297 00:15:55,495 --> 00:15:57,595 occupied housing, some sort of townhome 298 00:15:57,595 --> 00:15:59,335 or row home development. 299 00:15:59,335 --> 00:16:02,635 Again, it will be permitted use it'll be a straightforward 300 00:16:02,635 --> 00:16:05,965 subdivision and this wouldn't be possible right without 301 00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:07,525 or wouldn't be possible in this format. 302 00:16:07,525 --> 00:16:13,195 And at the speed without the changes that we made in the code 303 00:16:13,195 --> 00:16:14,875 we've let the state in permitting 304 00:16:14,875 --> 00:16:17,185 detached accessory dwelling units, 305 00:16:17,185 --> 00:16:19,153 we've approved at least 87 of them 306 00:16:19,153 --> 00:16:23,425 so far We also made it easier to expand a home 307 00:16:23,425 --> 00:16:25,525 or build a home on a small lot. 308 00:16:25,525 --> 00:16:27,085 Francis i'm sorry, I have a question 309 00:16:27,085 --> 00:16:28,773 on the last the park hill. 310 00:16:28,773 --> 00:16:29,382 Yeah. 311 00:16:29,382 --> 00:16:32,425 Was that was were any of those units 312 00:16:32,425 --> 00:16:37,435 going to be geared to seniors citizens at some point Yes. 313 00:16:37,435 --> 00:16:38,305 Most most. 314 00:16:38,305 --> 00:16:41,521 If not all of those units will be senior housing OK. 315 00:16:41,521 --> 00:16:44,396 And functionally, it's permanent supportive housing for seniors. 316 00:16:44,396 --> 00:16:46,705 It's independent living Right. 317 00:16:46,705 --> 00:16:48,745 So it's not permanent supportive housing in the sense 318 00:16:48,745 --> 00:16:50,875 that switch point is permanent supportive housing. 319 00:16:50,875 --> 00:16:54,085 But it really is kind of like the last stop 320 00:16:54,085 --> 00:16:56,005 to prevent these veteran, these folks 321 00:16:56,005 --> 00:16:57,425 from becoming homeless Right. 322 00:16:57,425 --> 00:16:57,925 I'm sorry. 323 00:16:57,925 --> 00:17:02,425 And did you say that housing Connect is helping to relocate 324 00:17:02,425 --> 00:17:05,172 some of the existing residents or they already did that, 325 00:17:05,172 --> 00:17:07,061 or they're in process They're in process. 326 00:17:07,061 --> 00:17:07,561 Now. 327 00:17:07,561 --> 00:17:09,505 Are any of is there any plans to bring 328 00:17:09,505 --> 00:17:11,065 those people into this housing? 329 00:17:11,065 --> 00:17:18,467 Yes We have led the state in permitting 80 years. 330 00:17:18,467 --> 00:17:20,185 We have approved at least 87. 331 00:17:20,185 --> 00:17:20,905 So far. 332 00:17:20,905 --> 00:17:24,235 This is the number that we reported to the housing 333 00:17:24,235 --> 00:17:26,665 to the Department of Workforce Services this year. 334 00:17:26,665 --> 00:17:28,345 And we've also made it easier to expand 335 00:17:28,345 --> 00:17:29,527 home or build on a small lot. 336 00:17:29,527 --> 00:17:32,035 And we did that by adjusting building envelopes 337 00:17:32,035 --> 00:17:35,695 and by you know, clarifying lot coverage and the like. 338 00:17:35,695 --> 00:17:37,945 This is important This is kind of a sleeper issue. 339 00:17:37,945 --> 00:17:39,835 This doesn't necessarily show up theoretically, 340 00:17:39,835 --> 00:17:41,155 as an affordable housing issue. 341 00:17:41,155 --> 00:17:44,365 But what that's what this does is it allows someone 342 00:17:44,365 --> 00:17:47,695 to reinvest in their property to update it, thereby relieving 343 00:17:47,695 --> 00:17:49,405 pressure on the market, you know, 344 00:17:49,405 --> 00:17:51,085 because they would otherwise move somewhere else. 345 00:17:51,085 --> 00:17:58,165 Yeah And so I think these little also the cheapest of the most 346 00:17:58,165 --> 00:18:00,669 readily available affording affordable housing stock, 347 00:18:00,669 --> 00:18:02,785 you have is the one that you have right 348 00:18:02,785 --> 00:18:06,175 It's in our neighborhoods now And so the extent to which we 349 00:18:06,175 --> 00:18:10,585 can allow people to build on their equity, 350 00:18:10,585 --> 00:18:12,715 make it easier to live, make it easier to maybe 351 00:18:12,715 --> 00:18:15,055 to rent a portion of their home also 352 00:18:15,055 --> 00:18:17,155 helps the affordability target by, 353 00:18:17,155 --> 00:18:19,255 you know, just providing more opportunities. 354 00:18:19,255 --> 00:18:23,245 Right We have reason to accommodate housing and centers. 355 00:18:23,245 --> 00:18:24,805 These two examples. 356 00:18:24,805 --> 00:18:27,925 One is the homes on the corner of Villa Vista in Richmond 357 00:18:27,925 --> 00:18:34,795 and the other on the right are the new residences at olympus 358 00:18:34,795 --> 00:18:37,675 Cove Now, these are interesting because neither these 359 00:18:37,675 --> 00:18:41,095 could conceivably be classified as affordable housing. 360 00:18:41,095 --> 00:18:44,035 But again, if you're thinking about, 361 00:18:44,035 --> 00:18:48,535 you know, a strategy that is universal in its scope 362 00:18:48,535 --> 00:18:51,767 there is a place for simply expanding housing supply. 363 00:18:51,767 --> 00:18:54,685 Right and allowing allowing people to move 364 00:18:54,685 --> 00:18:57,355 upmarket when they need to move or when they desire to move up 365 00:18:57,355 --> 00:19:01,405 market, which again relieves pressure downstream in the class 366 00:19:01,405 --> 00:19:05,875 B, Class C space for rentals and and existing homes 367 00:19:05,875 --> 00:19:11,356 for mortgages We also embrace supportive housing. 368 00:19:11,356 --> 00:19:11,856 OK. 369 00:19:11,856 --> 00:19:14,999 This is a special this is a special one for me, right? 370 00:19:14,999 --> 00:19:19,555 Because it's not really a planning regulatory posture 371 00:19:19,555 --> 00:19:21,401 that we've taken but it is direction. 372 00:19:21,401 --> 00:19:24,655 I've taken from the city council to work proactively 373 00:19:24,655 --> 00:19:28,315 with the service providers to make sure that it's 374 00:19:28,315 --> 00:19:31,435 a good benefit to the community and most importantly, 375 00:19:31,435 --> 00:19:33,445 a good benefit to the residents there. 376 00:19:33,445 --> 00:19:36,505 And you know, Mayor Jackson, Councilmember handy, 377 00:19:36,505 --> 00:19:39,805 you've been very helpful, too, in engaging switch 378 00:19:39,805 --> 00:19:42,025 point in in this project. 379 00:19:42,025 --> 00:19:44,590 But we don't do it with just switch point right ? 380 00:19:44,590 --> 00:19:45,265 I work. 381 00:19:45,265 --> 00:19:50,275 I mean i meet quarterly with the valley Oaks for example, 382 00:19:50,275 --> 00:19:57,295 and we have engaged proactively to, as PD requests with Odyssey 383 00:19:57,295 --> 00:20:02,095 house with Turning Point with Oasis, 384 00:20:02,095 --> 00:20:04,165 it's important to build relationships with them. 385 00:20:04,165 --> 00:20:08,125 It's important to build at least enough camarade agree with them. 386 00:20:08,125 --> 00:20:12,565 Between us and the operator and the resident that it really 387 00:20:12,565 --> 00:20:15,562 does make a difference when when, 388 00:20:15,562 --> 00:20:17,155 when a challenge occurs Right? 389 00:20:17,155 --> 00:20:18,235 So here's an example. 390 00:20:18,235 --> 00:20:19,585 This is the most effective example 391 00:20:19,585 --> 00:20:23,335 that we have And it's also also credit promise 392 00:20:23,335 --> 00:20:25,225 for helping set this up, too. 393 00:20:25,225 --> 00:20:29,305 But at the first anniversary of Switch point, 394 00:20:29,305 --> 00:20:32,365 you showed up and and delivered ice cream. 395 00:20:32,365 --> 00:20:33,625 And there's a photo of that. 396 00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:36,835 So we do embrace support of permanent supportive housing, 397 00:20:36,835 --> 00:20:38,845 but we don't do it in a way that's hands off. 398 00:20:38,845 --> 00:20:39,595 Right. 399 00:20:39,595 --> 00:20:42,715 We know that's that supportive housing comes 400 00:20:42,715 --> 00:20:47,555 with some some trade, some and potentially some risks 401 00:20:47,555 --> 00:20:51,235 if that relationship isn't handled well. 402 00:20:51,235 --> 00:20:54,985 And we are really proud amongst city staff 403 00:20:54,985 --> 00:20:57,595 and in this department and with update and promise 404 00:20:57,595 --> 00:21:00,595 for you know working proactively with these service providers 405 00:21:00,595 --> 00:21:06,205 though thanks to everybody in earshot for helping that That's 406 00:21:06,205 --> 00:21:09,985 what we've done so far right They don't want us to feel bad 407 00:21:09,985 --> 00:21:13,285 But the question is, how have we moved the dial enough? 408 00:21:13,285 --> 00:21:13,975 Maybe not. 409 00:21:13,975 --> 00:21:15,475 Maybe there's more we can do. 410 00:21:15,475 --> 00:21:18,693 And here are some policy options that we discussed 411 00:21:18,693 --> 00:21:21,835 with the housing subcommittee on the Planning Commission 412 00:21:21,835 --> 00:21:24,115 with the full plenary planning Commission, 413 00:21:24,115 --> 00:21:26,095 and now are discussing with you. 414 00:21:26,095 --> 00:21:30,179 One option is to subdivide or allow for 80 years 415 00:21:30,179 --> 00:21:31,015 to be subdivided. 416 00:21:31,015 --> 00:21:33,906 We already allow them in most cases 417 00:21:33,906 --> 00:21:36,625 But right now that ownership has to be 418 00:21:36,625 --> 00:21:39,715 tethered to the same owner, right? 419 00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:43,285 So the 80 you cannot be sold or lease or conveyed separately, 420 00:21:43,285 --> 00:21:47,635 but some cities are thinking of creating that option subject 421 00:21:47,635 --> 00:21:50,215 to a deed restriction, ensuring owner occupancy for both 422 00:21:50,215 --> 00:21:53,305 lots So the one advantage to this 423 00:21:53,305 --> 00:21:54,766 is that the uses already there. 424 00:21:54,766 --> 00:21:57,119 So the real question is, what does the ownership 425 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,585 mean The other advantages on a dollar for dollar basis, right? 426 00:22:01,585 --> 00:22:05,755 A modest 88 800ft² is going to be 427 00:22:05,755 --> 00:22:08,058 much more affordable than, you know, 428 00:22:08,058 --> 00:22:09,561 the 3,000 square foot home. 429 00:22:09,561 --> 00:22:10,814 That's it's next time. 430 00:22:10,814 --> 00:22:13,435 So it provides a relatively inexpensive market driven 431 00:22:13,435 --> 00:22:15,881 solution for affordable home ownership and other cities 432 00:22:15,881 --> 00:22:17,570 have tried this, right? 433 00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:20,065 It doesn't necessarily change the built character 434 00:22:20,065 --> 00:22:21,985 of a single family neighborhood because those 80 435 00:22:21,985 --> 00:22:23,455 use are already there. 436 00:22:23,455 --> 00:22:25,675 However, it might make it a little bit more likely 437 00:22:25,675 --> 00:22:27,595 that someone will do an 80 year if they know that they 438 00:22:27,595 --> 00:22:29,935 can sell it in the future. 439 00:22:29,935 --> 00:22:31,615 But it also challenges the notion 440 00:22:31,615 --> 00:22:33,505 of what a single household zone and a lot. 441 00:22:33,505 --> 00:22:35,485 So with a certain lot size minimum 442 00:22:35,485 --> 00:22:40,615 means and that that may require a little bit 443 00:22:40,615 --> 00:22:42,775 of soul searching with our neighborhoods 444 00:22:42,775 --> 00:22:47,945 right the next steps. 445 00:22:47,945 --> 00:22:49,549 The next steps on that in the subsequent 446 00:22:49,549 --> 00:22:54,955 slides, we'll get to in just a minute The other question is 447 00:22:54,955 --> 00:22:58,435 and we've wrestled with this in this body just a few weeks ago, 448 00:22:58,435 --> 00:23:00,535 should we require and for affordable city 449 00:23:00,535 --> 00:23:03,235 component for reasons requesting more density. 450 00:23:03,235 --> 00:23:04,969 So Farmington actually requires this. 451 00:23:04,969 --> 00:23:07,675 So in other words, if you come in and ask 452 00:23:07,675 --> 00:23:11,395 for a reason for greater density beyond a certain scope 453 00:23:11,395 --> 00:23:14,965 Farmington Code will require you to do a certain component 454 00:23:14,965 --> 00:23:17,815 of that project as affordable Specifically, 455 00:23:17,815 --> 00:23:23,035 the general plan calls us out as an option There are trade here, 456 00:23:23,035 --> 00:23:23,905 too. 457 00:23:23,905 --> 00:23:26,035 It may not be effective unless it's done at scale. 458 00:23:26,035 --> 00:23:28,585 So like stone Brook, which is about 160 units, 459 00:23:28,585 --> 00:23:30,685 I'm not sure that it makes sense for a small project 460 00:23:30,685 --> 00:23:34,735 because imagine you're doing rezoning for units, right? 461 00:23:34,735 --> 00:23:37,714 And you say, well, 25% of those for units or one unit 462 00:23:37,714 --> 00:23:40,508 needs to be affordable What what's really happening, 463 00:23:40,508 --> 00:23:42,385 then is the developer is just subsidizing 464 00:23:42,385 --> 00:23:44,395 the cost of that affordable unit and amortizing 465 00:23:44,395 --> 00:23:46,105 out across the other three. 466 00:23:46,105 --> 00:23:48,385 I'm not sure that that makes that big of a difference, 467 00:23:48,385 --> 00:23:52,255 but it might be, but it might make a difference at scale. 468 00:23:52,255 --> 00:23:56,155 However, I also know that land is really, really really, 469 00:23:56,155 --> 00:23:59,275 really, really expensive And if we had this requirement, 470 00:23:59,275 --> 00:24:01,885 it might just stop development in certain areas. 471 00:24:01,885 --> 00:24:02,815 Right? 472 00:24:02,815 --> 00:24:08,035 Do you know Farmington has had any like qualms about developers 473 00:24:08,035 --> 00:24:09,595 coming in and saying like, well, we 474 00:24:09,595 --> 00:24:12,745 don't want to participate Like, do they have has it slowed 475 00:24:12,745 --> 00:24:14,425 their development in any way? 476 00:24:14,425 --> 00:24:17,035 I don't I don't think so. 477 00:24:17,035 --> 00:24:20,365 Farmington is mostly infill now. 478 00:24:20,365 --> 00:24:21,775 I mean, around Station Park, they've 479 00:24:21,775 --> 00:24:23,485 done a lot of affordable stuff already 480 00:24:23,485 --> 00:24:25,195 for like tax credit, whatnot. 481 00:24:25,195 --> 00:24:31,435 But interestingly enough, Silvia is the the developers 482 00:24:31,435 --> 00:24:33,115 are tying this affordability component 483 00:24:33,115 --> 00:24:36,355 to that adu subdivision idea. 484 00:24:36,355 --> 00:24:38,395 So you'll actually have a developer come in 485 00:24:38,395 --> 00:24:40,165 and say, I want to do single family homes, 486 00:24:40,165 --> 00:24:44,005 but I'm going to subdivide these these, these Adu lots. 487 00:24:44,005 --> 00:24:46,435 And that's the bank. 488 00:24:46,435 --> 00:24:48,265 And that might make sense for Farmington 489 00:24:48,265 --> 00:24:50,815 because they have what they, what they have most of 490 00:24:50,815 --> 00:24:57,415 and that's not a lot is just infill single family right 491 00:24:57,415 --> 00:24:58,945 another option. 492 00:24:58,945 --> 00:25:03,475 And councilmember desire has suggested this is something 493 00:25:03,475 --> 00:25:06,145 to consider should we consider up zoning for higher densities 494 00:25:06,145 --> 00:25:08,755 near public schools Now I approached this question 495 00:25:08,755 --> 00:25:09,761 to the Planning Commission. 496 00:25:09,761 --> 00:25:13,790 And they had some interesting ideas to One idea. 497 00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:17,457 And Tom, correct me if I'm wrong or feel free to step in, 498 00:25:17,457 --> 00:25:20,545 but a well-designed overlay zone or alternative development 499 00:25:20,545 --> 00:25:22,885 standard could secure affordable ownership opportunities. 500 00:25:22,885 --> 00:25:25,315 Areas closest to schools that face declining enrollment. 501 00:25:25,315 --> 00:25:28,195 The goal here is to create the type of housing that 502 00:25:28,195 --> 00:25:30,205 is attractive to those types of families that would go 503 00:25:30,205 --> 00:25:32,725 to the schools and would essentially, you know, 504 00:25:32,725 --> 00:25:37,405 prevent these schools from from closing. 505 00:25:37,405 --> 00:25:39,985 And in the concept could be duplexes. 506 00:25:39,985 --> 00:25:43,405 Triplexes fourplex is in areas within a quarter 507 00:25:43,405 --> 00:25:45,625 or half a mile of a public school. 508 00:25:45,625 --> 00:25:49,105 Of course, there are some considerations in order to make 509 00:25:49,105 --> 00:25:50,515 it family friendly right? 510 00:25:50,515 --> 00:25:52,405 You would need to have a relatively high number 511 00:25:52,405 --> 00:25:55,585 of minimum, a number of bedrooms to make it work, 512 00:25:55,585 --> 00:25:58,435 which means you would need to work on parking, which also 513 00:25:58,435 --> 00:26:00,115 means that you would need to somehow work out 514 00:26:00,115 --> 00:26:01,945 some sort of plan for deed restrictions 515 00:26:01,945 --> 00:26:06,415 to ensure affordability or occupancy The Planning 516 00:26:06,415 --> 00:26:09,655 Commission was intrigued by this idea, To be honest 517 00:26:09,655 --> 00:26:11,755 and in fact, a couple of them said, 518 00:26:11,755 --> 00:26:14,725 should we consider hospitals and parks as also opportunities 519 00:26:14,725 --> 00:26:18,775 for this type of concept recognizing that, you know 520 00:26:18,775 --> 00:26:21,745 our single family neighborhoods in many cases 521 00:26:21,745 --> 00:26:23,245 aren't really single family neighborhoods, 522 00:26:23,245 --> 00:26:24,745 What they are mixed right? 523 00:26:24,745 --> 00:26:26,875 Most of our neighborhoods in no creek are mixed. 524 00:26:26,875 --> 00:26:29,605 Not all, but many of them are. 525 00:26:29,605 --> 00:26:32,549 And One thing that was mentioned is 526 00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:35,605 this could be tied to preapproved house plans So here 527 00:26:35,605 --> 00:26:40,945 are some examples from South Bend where they've actually 528 00:26:40,945 --> 00:26:44,935 essentially developed these preapproved house 529 00:26:44,935 --> 00:26:47,845 plans that, you know, someone can come in and buy 530 00:26:47,845 --> 00:26:49,915 and your plan reviews are already done. 531 00:26:49,915 --> 00:26:52,825 Right You just have to do a quick code review to make sure 532 00:26:52,825 --> 00:26:55,795 that it fits on the lot And South Bend has gone 533 00:26:55,795 --> 00:26:57,535 into enough detail where they've said, 534 00:26:57,535 --> 00:26:59,695 you know, this six unit apartment building 535 00:26:59,695 --> 00:27:01,524 is allowed in certain areas. 536 00:27:01,524 --> 00:27:04,247 And this two bedroom cottage is allowed in certain areas. 537 00:27:04,247 --> 00:27:08,365 It's very neighborhood specific I bring this up because there's 538 00:27:08,365 --> 00:27:11,457 movement at the state level, maybe to help 539 00:27:11,457 --> 00:27:13,135 support cities to do this. 540 00:27:13,135 --> 00:27:14,785 There's also grant money available 541 00:27:14,785 --> 00:27:18,655 through the new bipartisan housing bill that was set aside. 542 00:27:18,655 --> 00:27:22,465 This could be a way to do it It requires us to really understand 543 00:27:22,465 --> 00:27:23,935 what the building envelope is, and that's 544 00:27:23,935 --> 00:27:25,855 why, in a kind of a previous discussion 545 00:27:25,855 --> 00:27:28,195 we mentioned, we might want to set aside some money to actually 546 00:27:28,195 --> 00:27:31,615 have an architect explore how these units would fit 547 00:27:31,615 --> 00:27:33,115 within our existing building envelope, 548 00:27:33,115 --> 00:27:35,785 because all things being equal, right, as long 549 00:27:35,785 --> 00:27:38,845 as you handle the parking and as long as you handle, you know, 550 00:27:38,845 --> 00:27:41,815 coverage setback and height, if you can design these things 551 00:27:41,815 --> 00:27:43,765 to look as much like a single family home 552 00:27:43,765 --> 00:27:46,135 they might not look that much different than the duplexes 553 00:27:46,135 --> 00:27:49,105 or triplexes We already have in many of our neighborhoods. 554 00:27:49,105 --> 00:27:53,575 But this requires I think, a lot of study and work 555 00:27:53,575 --> 00:27:55,495 I'm also not sure that there's a guarantee 556 00:27:55,495 --> 00:27:57,715 that families with school age children will attend 557 00:27:57,715 --> 00:28:00,385 and there's really no way for us to force that to happen 558 00:28:00,385 --> 00:28:01,525 for a fair housing rules. 559 00:28:01,525 --> 00:28:05,875 So i think I think this is definitely 560 00:28:05,875 --> 00:28:09,175 worth this is definitely worth pursuing you know, understanding 561 00:28:09,175 --> 00:28:12,655 that there's you know, engagement and trade to be 562 00:28:12,655 --> 00:28:14,465 had here and ask a question. 563 00:28:14,465 --> 00:28:14,965 Yes. 564 00:28:14,965 --> 00:28:19,315 So I know the majority of our schools are in Beds district. 565 00:28:19,315 --> 00:28:23,515 I they're in a lot of the older neighborhoods. 566 00:28:23,515 --> 00:28:25,824 I'm thinking of like district Three. 567 00:28:25,824 --> 00:28:28,388 I know there's areas where people have wanted. 568 00:28:28,388 --> 00:28:31,181 They've had larger lots and wanted to subdivide 569 00:28:31,181 --> 00:28:34,165 and they couldn't because the waterline is not 570 00:28:34,165 --> 00:28:36,295 large enough to support that. 571 00:28:36,295 --> 00:28:37,975 And I mean, and throughout the whole neighborhood. 572 00:28:37,975 --> 00:28:40,675 So has there been a conversation with Salt Lake 573 00:28:40,675 --> 00:28:42,775 City public utilities or anything because that would 574 00:28:42,775 --> 00:28:47,095 require additional water that would require separate metering 575 00:28:47,095 --> 00:28:51,265 and not only with water, but with power and gas 576 00:28:51,265 --> 00:28:56,245 and all of that which is might be a heavy lift. 577 00:28:56,245 --> 00:28:57,655 Has there been conversations? 578 00:28:57,655 --> 00:28:59,215 Not yet. 579 00:28:59,215 --> 00:29:04,985 I mean and we're actually going to recommend kind of a process 580 00:29:04,985 --> 00:29:08,275 to begin those conversations in a way that allows 581 00:29:08,275 --> 00:29:13,167 these ideas to develop and Francis has some good thoughts 582 00:29:13,167 --> 00:29:15,115 on how we'll be able to continue to say 583 00:29:15,115 --> 00:29:16,676 and flesh those out in a slide or two. 584 00:29:16,676 --> 00:29:19,361 So some of these questions might be answered shortly Yeah. 585 00:29:19,361 --> 00:29:20,125 All right. 586 00:29:20,125 --> 00:29:22,793 So another option is housing preservation 587 00:29:22,793 --> 00:29:26,798 And don't ever be sorry Housing preservation. 588 00:29:26,798 --> 00:29:28,889 And should the question here is, should 589 00:29:28,889 --> 00:29:31,105 the city require that affordable housing be replaced? 590 00:29:31,105 --> 00:29:32,365 If it is demolished ? 591 00:29:32,365 --> 00:29:35,369 This issue came up with the expansion of St Mark's, which 592 00:29:35,369 --> 00:29:38,125 took out 6 or 7 units. in that case, 593 00:29:38,125 --> 00:29:42,685 there was enough community reinvest money set aside 594 00:29:42,685 --> 00:29:44,875 to help offset that through, you know, 595 00:29:44,875 --> 00:29:46,345 some of the other city's housing goals. 596 00:29:46,345 --> 00:29:48,775 But salt Lake City has adopted an ordinance 597 00:29:48,775 --> 00:29:50,426 that prohibits the demolition of housing 598 00:29:50,426 --> 00:29:51,535 and commercial parking lots. 599 00:29:51,535 --> 00:29:54,865 And this topic is this topic came up. 600 00:29:54,865 --> 00:29:58,015 The planning commission was really mixed on this right? 601 00:29:58,015 --> 00:30:03,145 There was concern about how this could be a very rough tool 602 00:30:03,145 --> 00:30:07,285 and that maybe the city's best interest is 603 00:30:07,285 --> 00:30:11,275 deployed in a more demand side or supply 604 00:30:11,275 --> 00:30:13,045 or demand side approach. 605 00:30:13,045 --> 00:30:15,355 But there are some planning commissioners that felt really 606 00:30:15,355 --> 00:30:18,115 strongly that we ought to consider this I will say 607 00:30:18,115 --> 00:30:22,369 that the St Mark's project was the first time that I witnessed 608 00:30:22,369 --> 00:30:26,447 housing being removed for a commercial use 609 00:30:26,447 --> 00:30:28,435 and not a mixed use, right. 610 00:30:28,435 --> 00:30:30,567 Most of the time housing is demolished for more housing. 611 00:30:30,567 --> 00:30:33,415 There were handfuls a scattering of housing units 612 00:30:33,415 --> 00:30:34,345 on top of city hall. 613 00:30:34,345 --> 00:30:36,955 But now there's much more around us 614 00:30:36,955 --> 00:30:38,635 commercial encroachment into neighborhood 615 00:30:38,635 --> 00:30:41,515 residential neighborhoods is rare and protecting, 616 00:30:41,515 --> 00:30:44,095 but protecting existing housing is the easiest strategy 617 00:30:44,095 --> 00:30:45,685 and it does relieve some development pressure. 618 00:30:45,685 --> 00:30:51,391 Now, real quick, right I think there 619 00:30:51,391 --> 00:30:54,355 are there are policy statements in our general plan 620 00:30:54,355 --> 00:30:57,205 and then there are ordinances that are hard and fast rules. 621 00:30:57,205 --> 00:31:00,415 This could be a policy statement and a general plan 622 00:31:00,415 --> 00:31:04,015 to help guide development decisions in the future. 623 00:31:04,015 --> 00:31:06,685 It does not necessarily need to be an ordinance 624 00:31:06,685 --> 00:31:09,115 And then finally, missing middle reasons. 625 00:31:09,115 --> 00:31:11,485 So the question here is like, should we 626 00:31:11,485 --> 00:31:13,945 reconsider our zoning map and our flu map to encourage 627 00:31:13,945 --> 00:31:14,875 missing middle housing? 628 00:31:14,875 --> 00:31:16,705 Just look at it more globally. 629 00:31:16,705 --> 00:31:18,865 So functionally, many of our neighborhoods 630 00:31:18,865 --> 00:31:22,135 have duplexes in them due to historic zoning 631 00:31:22,135 --> 00:31:24,595 This would unlock the possibility of gentle density 632 00:31:24,595 --> 00:31:26,365 if we did it the right way. 633 00:31:26,365 --> 00:31:27,985 We have a general plan that supports 634 00:31:27,985 --> 00:31:30,055 this idea in part right? 635 00:31:30,055 --> 00:31:31,795 There are some specific goals called out 636 00:31:31,795 --> 00:31:34,075 that talked about you know, making, you know, 637 00:31:34,075 --> 00:31:36,805 targeted interventions into our single family neighborhoods 638 00:31:36,805 --> 00:31:39,025 to support higher density where appropriate 639 00:31:39,025 --> 00:31:41,185 However, the general plan also calls out for keeping 640 00:31:41,185 --> 00:31:44,185 these single family neighborhoods intact 641 00:31:44,185 --> 00:31:47,065 Our Northeast Corridor study that we did last year 642 00:31:47,065 --> 00:31:49,855 identified maybe some opportunities along the corridor 643 00:31:49,855 --> 00:31:52,825 that we could expand options for housing. 644 00:31:52,825 --> 00:31:55,855 However, this requires substantial engagement and study 645 00:31:55,855 --> 00:31:57,745 and this might require a more granular approach 646 00:31:57,745 --> 00:32:01,085 to our future land use map that then than the current map really 647 00:32:01,085 --> 00:32:05,365 allows us to do which is one of the reasons why we requested 648 00:32:05,365 --> 00:32:09,205 as staff some money to redo our general plan So here's 649 00:32:09,205 --> 00:32:11,374 our recommendation This came from the Planning 650 00:32:11,374 --> 00:32:12,083 Commission meeting. 651 00:32:12,083 --> 00:32:14,545 And this came from a discussion with staff 652 00:32:14,545 --> 00:32:16,375 what they would like us to do now 653 00:32:16,375 --> 00:32:19,705 or what they would suggest that we do now is that we adopt 654 00:32:19,705 --> 00:32:21,895 the third South and Northeast Corridor plan 655 00:32:21,895 --> 00:32:23,845 So I'm going to take that to the Planning Commission 656 00:32:23,845 --> 00:32:25,285 in the next couple of months in this fall 657 00:32:25,285 --> 00:32:26,935 will bring that to you. 658 00:32:26,935 --> 00:32:28,615 They also recommended that we actually 659 00:32:28,615 --> 00:32:30,632 make some tweaks to the future land use 660 00:32:30,632 --> 00:32:32,224 map of the Northeast corridor. 661 00:32:32,224 --> 00:32:35,245 You know early this year or later this year or early next, 662 00:32:35,245 --> 00:32:36,805 because that's where we are seeing a lot 663 00:32:36,805 --> 00:32:38,305 of the development pressure. 664 00:32:38,305 --> 00:32:39,085 We could do that now. 665 00:32:39,085 --> 00:32:41,605 We don't have to wait The planning Commission 666 00:32:41,605 --> 00:32:42,985 had an interesting idea. 667 00:32:42,985 --> 00:32:45,955 Invite developers who specialize in missing middle housing 668 00:32:45,955 --> 00:32:47,695 to a strategy meeting and begin to build 669 00:32:47,695 --> 00:32:49,105 a relationship with them. 670 00:32:49,105 --> 00:32:50,635 The truth is the type of development 671 00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:53,305 that I'm seeing right now is not accommodating this right. 672 00:32:53,305 --> 00:32:56,005 Most of the people who come to us sight unseen 673 00:32:56,005 --> 00:32:58,255 want to build townhomes right? 674 00:32:58,255 --> 00:33:01,555 And and those townhomes are they want to sell for three quarters 675 00:33:01,555 --> 00:33:03,145 of $1 million, which is crazy. 676 00:33:03,145 --> 00:33:07,096 But that's the way that that's what the market. 677 00:33:07,096 --> 00:33:09,745 But that's what the market is presenting to us. 678 00:33:09,745 --> 00:33:12,745 I would like to get you know, people in the room who are who 679 00:33:12,745 --> 00:33:15,490 are who are really interested in building modest homes 680 00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:17,749 and just see how that works. 681 00:33:17,749 --> 00:33:20,755 And what, if anything, is in the way and what, 682 00:33:20,755 --> 00:33:24,955 if anything, can the city do now to consider as part 683 00:33:24,955 --> 00:33:27,115 of the general plan update The just to, you know, 684 00:33:27,115 --> 00:33:28,405 the planning commission was pretty 685 00:33:28,405 --> 00:33:30,835 warm to you know, any or all of these ideas, 686 00:33:30,835 --> 00:33:31,945 to varying intensities. 687 00:33:31,945 --> 00:33:35,491 But they felt pretty strongly that you know, 688 00:33:35,491 --> 00:33:37,705 since we're going to be doing a general plan that we really 689 00:33:37,705 --> 00:33:39,355 ought to roll these conversations 690 00:33:39,355 --> 00:33:42,655 into that whole process and i thought to myself, 691 00:33:42,655 --> 00:33:44,965 a general plan is a two year document, right? 692 00:33:44,965 --> 00:33:46,945 I don't want necessarily want to wait two years. 693 00:33:46,945 --> 00:33:48,715 How might we roll the how how might 694 00:33:48,715 --> 00:33:52,465 we roll this into the process to give us and you the option 695 00:33:52,465 --> 00:33:55,105 to make some policy decisions more rapidly, 696 00:33:55,105 --> 00:33:58,075 you know, given the urgency of the housing issues 697 00:33:58,075 --> 00:34:02,335 So Isaac jested that we actually start Arkansas Colton 698 00:34:02,335 --> 00:34:06,715 Right on the process of doing targeted policy 699 00:34:06,715 --> 00:34:09,175 briefings on these ideas. 700 00:34:09,175 --> 00:34:11,905 School oriented development design considerations 701 00:34:11,905 --> 00:34:14,995 missing military zones, housing preservation strategies 702 00:34:14,995 --> 00:34:16,610 in general, and subdividing ideas 703 00:34:16,610 --> 00:34:20,485 to look at the trade to engage the public 704 00:34:20,485 --> 00:34:21,805 on the specific topic. 705 00:34:21,805 --> 00:34:23,905 I don't necessarily want to go back to the public and say, 706 00:34:23,905 --> 00:34:25,615 Do you want more housing? 707 00:34:25,615 --> 00:34:26,425 Right? 708 00:34:26,425 --> 00:34:28,195 But what I want to do is go to the public and like, 709 00:34:28,195 --> 00:34:29,665 here are some options. 710 00:34:29,665 --> 00:34:34,435 What do you think the policy brief would review literature 711 00:34:34,435 --> 00:34:36,055 and gather data and the policy brief 712 00:34:36,055 --> 00:34:37,165 would make recommendations? 713 00:34:37,165 --> 00:34:39,385 What I'm anticipating is that these policy briefs will 714 00:34:39,385 --> 00:34:42,865 be delivered to you 1 or 2 at a time, 715 00:34:42,865 --> 00:34:45,745 and then we can actually begin to move on. 716 00:34:45,745 --> 00:34:49,435 Ordinance changes at that time, if the City Council does, 717 00:34:49,435 --> 00:34:51,145 if the city council desires. 718 00:34:51,145 --> 00:34:54,565 The advantage of that is that each of these items 719 00:34:54,565 --> 00:34:58,165 requires a healthy amount of engagement and pretty 720 00:34:58,165 --> 00:35:00,205 sophisticated engagement to. 721 00:35:00,205 --> 00:35:04,717 Secondly it might benefit us to have a third party just handle 722 00:35:04,717 --> 00:35:07,105 that conversation because some of these conversations, 723 00:35:07,105 --> 00:35:10,675 although the reality is, you know the reality is they 724 00:35:10,675 --> 00:35:11,965 may not make that much of a difference 725 00:35:11,965 --> 00:35:13,315 in our neighborhood cycle. 726 00:35:13,315 --> 00:35:15,955 Logically, they can be a big difference to people, 727 00:35:15,955 --> 00:35:18,145 right, in how they conceive of them, how 728 00:35:18,145 --> 00:35:19,525 they perceive their neighborhoods 729 00:35:19,525 --> 00:35:21,155 and our needs have help with that. 730 00:35:21,155 --> 00:35:21,655 Right. 731 00:35:21,655 --> 00:35:24,985 That's not something that I don't think I could lead out 732 00:35:24,985 --> 00:35:27,325 on successfully for the city. 733 00:35:27,325 --> 00:35:28,255 Right. 734 00:35:28,255 --> 00:35:31,075 That and that's that's sometimes why we hire consultants to kind 735 00:35:31,075 --> 00:35:34,435 of help us almost act as a buffer 736 00:35:34,435 --> 00:35:36,706 and to give the residents a kind of a third party 737 00:35:36,706 --> 00:35:39,715 to have these kind of candid, sometimes fraught discussions 738 00:35:39,715 --> 00:35:42,145 on, but also they have the time. 739 00:35:42,145 --> 00:35:46,000 And they have the ability to really look broadly 740 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,865 And, we're busy kind of doing other things. 741 00:35:48,865 --> 00:35:51,775 So I thought this might be a good approach 742 00:35:51,775 --> 00:35:55,645 My goal here is to not kind of sit on these right once. 743 00:35:55,645 --> 00:35:58,255 For example, the school or in a development thing was done. 744 00:35:58,255 --> 00:35:59,609 We would bring it to you. 745 00:35:59,609 --> 00:36:02,275 And we would, you know, we would present the policy brief we 746 00:36:02,275 --> 00:36:03,595 would look at the trade offs. 747 00:36:03,595 --> 00:36:05,335 We would give you an analysis of the data. 748 00:36:05,335 --> 00:36:09,565 We would report on community feedback and then we would, 749 00:36:09,565 --> 00:36:12,205 you know allow you to kind of make a decision at that point. 750 00:36:12,205 --> 00:36:15,445 And we would do each of these in sequence. 751 00:36:15,445 --> 00:36:18,476 And what do you think I have a few questions. 752 00:36:18,476 --> 00:36:21,325 I can your butt back one slide. 753 00:36:21,325 --> 00:36:23,165 So this is what you're presenting 754 00:36:23,165 --> 00:36:27,775 and I thank you for the very thoughtful just analysis of all 755 00:36:27,775 --> 00:36:29,965 this I'll tell you for me, I would really 756 00:36:29,965 --> 00:36:33,505 like to look at what the missing middle zone middle reasons 757 00:36:33,505 --> 00:36:35,455 could look like. 758 00:36:35,455 --> 00:36:37,525 And this is I might be jumping around in this, 759 00:36:37,525 --> 00:36:41,455 but the anticipation of what housing will cost 760 00:36:41,455 --> 00:36:46,225 when the Olympics come or as labor and the economy 761 00:36:46,225 --> 00:36:52,225 increases as far as how it's associated with the Olympics 762 00:36:52,225 --> 00:36:55,105 I mean, that cost of living is going to go up significantly. 763 00:36:55,105 --> 00:36:56,485 So that is a future. 764 00:36:56,485 --> 00:36:59,785 But having that larger perspective of knowing 765 00:36:59,785 --> 00:37:03,085 that housing is going to increase, I'd really like, 766 00:37:03,085 --> 00:37:04,825 at least for me, I'd like to see how 767 00:37:04,825 --> 00:37:07,075 we address the missing middle reasons 768 00:37:07,075 --> 00:37:09,745 or however this is priority test. 769 00:37:09,745 --> 00:37:14,485 Second is the school oriented development 770 00:37:14,485 --> 00:37:16,975 because the majority of the schools are in my district, 771 00:37:16,975 --> 00:37:19,405 I'm just thinking a mile, two mile and a half 772 00:37:19,405 --> 00:37:23,935 is the potential for this to look at future rezoning 773 00:37:23,935 --> 00:37:27,655 because there's a lot of single family homes that are currently 774 00:37:27,655 --> 00:37:32,485 there Does that entail the city coming in to buy homes to then 775 00:37:32,485 --> 00:37:36,145 create, or is this a phase out of those, 776 00:37:36,145 --> 00:37:40,555 say say, a developer purchases 2 or 3 homes who happen 777 00:37:40,555 --> 00:37:43,075 which happened to be on sale. 778 00:37:43,075 --> 00:37:47,305 Does that entail Oh, I'm just thinking of all the schools 779 00:37:47,305 --> 00:37:50,755 and a quarter mile to a mile from those schools 780 00:37:50,755 --> 00:37:55,122 are all still very I can answer that question. 781 00:37:55,122 --> 00:37:55,622 OK. 782 00:37:55,622 --> 00:37:57,856 So when I First started looking into this, 783 00:37:57,856 --> 00:38:01,255 I had Brian Poole on Map and I can get you 784 00:38:01,255 --> 00:38:04,405 that map of what it would look like if it 785 00:38:04,405 --> 00:38:06,767 was a mile around every school. 786 00:38:06,767 --> 00:38:08,923 And if it was a mile around every school. 787 00:38:08,923 --> 00:38:13,585 It's effectively the entire city by thought is really 788 00:38:13,585 --> 00:38:19,352 it should just be a quarter mile And then second, it wouldn't we 789 00:38:19,352 --> 00:38:20,485 wouldn't have the city doing this. 790 00:38:20,485 --> 00:38:23,545 It would just be an overlay zone where if I developer wants 791 00:38:23,545 --> 00:38:26,545 to go and buy a house that's up for sale 792 00:38:26,545 --> 00:38:32,545 and is willing to go put in a 3 to four bedroom units 793 00:38:32,545 --> 00:38:35,785 that have enough parking and that are for sale 794 00:38:35,785 --> 00:38:39,254 and deed restricted, they would be able to do that. 795 00:38:39,254 --> 00:38:41,125 And then I also thank you. 796 00:38:41,125 --> 00:38:43,780 I appreciate and I would love to see them out. 797 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:45,130 One of the other concerns. 798 00:38:45,130 --> 00:38:50,485 I have, too, is just the recent school closure 799 00:38:50,485 --> 00:38:52,285 discussions that we've had. 800 00:38:52,285 --> 00:38:54,865 So when we're looking at the school oriented development 801 00:38:54,865 --> 00:38:57,595 with school closures happening does 802 00:38:57,595 --> 00:39:01,519 the overlay of around the schools that could potentially. 803 00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:04,675 I mean, birth rates not going up significantly 804 00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:05,515 you know, right now. 805 00:39:05,515 --> 00:39:11,785 So as we see a decline in the birth rates are we 806 00:39:11,785 --> 00:39:16,435 are we conscious of how that affects 807 00:39:16,435 --> 00:39:18,055 the zones around the schools? 808 00:39:18,055 --> 00:39:20,395 If they are potentially going to be closed? 809 00:39:20,395 --> 00:39:23,095 And the intent was the initial intent 810 00:39:23,095 --> 00:39:28,075 was to entice young families to kind of keep those schools open. 811 00:39:28,075 --> 00:39:28,615 Mm hmm. 812 00:39:28,615 --> 00:39:30,847 So I'm just I'm throwing it out there, 813 00:39:30,847 --> 00:39:32,777 know the mayor and council, these are good questions. 814 00:39:32,777 --> 00:39:34,735 And there's no way we'll be able to answer them all. 815 00:39:34,735 --> 00:39:38,635 Obviously, in this forum or this afternoon But I think Francis 816 00:39:38,635 --> 00:39:41,305 and planning's request is, hey, that they're already proceeding 817 00:39:41,305 --> 00:39:43,345 with the general plan update It's in the budget 818 00:39:43,345 --> 00:39:44,845 for this fiscal year. 819 00:39:44,845 --> 00:39:47,065 Should they be looking at some of these specific housing 820 00:39:47,065 --> 00:39:49,045 strategies and maybe some other ones? 821 00:39:49,045 --> 00:39:51,685 And the third party experts will get in and come back 822 00:39:51,685 --> 00:39:54,025 and say, you know what, that's a good idea or you know what? 823 00:39:54,025 --> 00:39:56,215 This idea doesn't really pencil or. 824 00:39:56,215 --> 00:40:00,235 And so his question, the thing he wants you to think of tonight 825 00:40:00,235 --> 00:40:05,095 is, are these Five good things that we should have the analysis 826 00:40:05,095 --> 00:40:07,482 of the general plan update look at and/or are there other things 827 00:40:07,482 --> 00:40:09,145 that you may think of, you don't even 828 00:40:09,145 --> 00:40:10,285 have to answer that tonight. 829 00:40:10,285 --> 00:40:12,745 The point of tonight was just kind of a bit of a thought 830 00:40:12,745 --> 00:40:14,425 starter and we certainly have other work 831 00:40:14,425 --> 00:40:17,575 meetings in the future to discuss housing to Yeah, 832 00:40:17,575 --> 00:40:18,115 absolutely. 833 00:40:18,115 --> 00:40:21,175 And just thinking about the school oriented design and Bev's 834 00:40:21,175 --> 00:40:25,315 district, if you're looking at Skyline, Wasatch Upland Terrace, 835 00:40:25,315 --> 00:40:27,685 that's pretty I mean, a quarter of a mile, that's pretty much 836 00:40:27,685 --> 00:40:30,205 that whole stretch of East Millcreek I'm concerned 837 00:40:30,205 --> 00:40:32,935 that there aren't any representatives from District 838 00:40:32,935 --> 00:40:35,095 four that have been involved in this discussion 839 00:40:35,095 --> 00:40:36,985 because the Planning Commissioners are 840 00:40:36,985 --> 00:40:40,825 are in district to i don't know if they're in District three, 841 00:40:40,825 --> 00:40:44,215 but that's that's that the neighborhood that really is 842 00:40:44,215 --> 00:40:48,505 because it's seven seven schools in district Four that's that's 843 00:40:48,505 --> 00:40:50,155 the neighborhood that is going to be 844 00:40:50,155 --> 00:40:52,825 most heavily impacted and changed 845 00:40:52,825 --> 00:40:54,085 if that were to come about. 846 00:40:54,085 --> 00:40:56,763 So I'd really like to get a lot of feedback 847 00:40:56,763 --> 00:40:59,635 from people who live in that neighborhood 848 00:40:59,635 --> 00:41:03,115 just to kind of gauge the temperature on and what that 849 00:41:03,115 --> 00:41:06,838 looks like, because I also gauging the temperature 850 00:41:06,838 --> 00:41:11,226 you can determine where the priorities go in Like 851 00:41:11,226 --> 00:41:14,245 I think this is a great plan, and do we move to design 852 00:41:14,245 --> 00:41:18,655 considerations not to see any diminish in any means anyway 853 00:41:18,655 --> 00:41:19,285 Sure. 854 00:41:19,285 --> 00:41:23,155 But it allows at least some of the resident to be 855 00:41:23,155 --> 00:41:26,629 more impacted and potentially even granted school. 856 00:41:26,629 --> 00:41:29,853 I mean, yeah they may know things we don't 857 00:41:29,853 --> 00:41:30,973 know about school closures. 858 00:41:30,973 --> 00:41:34,496 I don't we don't know It'd be helpful to know 859 00:41:34,496 --> 00:41:39,685 to i don't think they know anything at this Okay. 860 00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:40,195 Thank you. 861 00:41:40,195 --> 00:41:41,045 That was my feedback. 862 00:41:41,045 --> 00:41:41,545 Yeah. 863 00:41:41,545 --> 00:41:42,236 No, thank you. 864 00:41:42,236 --> 00:41:44,785 So are you looking for any more direction from us tonight, 865 00:41:44,785 --> 00:41:46,795 or is this just kind of to get the conversation 866 00:41:46,795 --> 00:41:47,965 started and will come back? 867 00:41:47,965 --> 00:41:49,790 I think i think the do. 868 00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:51,859 Now the three that you have make sense. 869 00:41:51,859 --> 00:41:55,585 And I think that's something we can start moving ahead on. 870 00:41:55,585 --> 00:41:58,915 OK that future land use map and zone 871 00:41:58,915 --> 00:42:00,565 changes in the in the general plan 872 00:42:00,565 --> 00:42:03,140 update that's that's a longer. 873 00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:05,455 I think items four and five mayor will come back to you 874 00:42:05,455 --> 00:42:08,899 in the coming weeks and months though not tons and months, 875 00:42:08,899 --> 00:42:11,455 but as we pick a consult in and give direction 876 00:42:11,455 --> 00:42:12,955 we agree this is something we need 877 00:42:12,955 --> 00:42:16,015 to get ahead of so that we're not really behind the curve, 878 00:42:16,015 --> 00:42:20,335 especially with So I'll leave you with this. 879 00:42:20,335 --> 00:42:21,895 When we did our last general plan, 880 00:42:21,895 --> 00:42:24,745 there was no staff and about two thirds of the way through it, 881 00:42:24,745 --> 00:42:30,205 I was hired This time we have a staff of ten, right? 882 00:42:30,205 --> 00:42:32,695 And so we're approaching this general plan a little bit 883 00:42:32,695 --> 00:42:33,535 differently. 884 00:42:33,535 --> 00:42:36,565 I don't need the consultant to come in and write 885 00:42:36,565 --> 00:42:37,855 the whole thing right. 886 00:42:37,855 --> 00:42:38,766 We could do it ourselves. 887 00:42:38,766 --> 00:42:43,915 We have an amazing amazing, highly skilled, very competent 888 00:42:43,915 --> 00:42:45,505 cartographer in our department who can 889 00:42:45,505 --> 00:42:46,735 actually do a lot of this, too. 890 00:42:46,735 --> 00:42:49,930 And he's already doing some of the analysis Sean 891 00:42:49,930 --> 00:42:52,645 and Brad and Carlos are working with me on this, too. 892 00:42:52,645 --> 00:42:55,915 So we're going to be in the pilot seat in this general plan. 893 00:42:55,915 --> 00:42:57,265 And so what I need the consultant to do 894 00:42:57,265 --> 00:43:01,405 is really some very discrete tasks, 895 00:43:01,405 --> 00:43:03,445 right And the other thing I don't want to do 896 00:43:03,445 --> 00:43:05,575 is just kind of throw them into a public meaning 897 00:43:05,575 --> 00:43:06,865 that's entirely open ended. 898 00:43:06,865 --> 00:43:09,985 I think it's I think i think our discussions will be far more 899 00:43:09,985 --> 00:43:12,925 successful if they're far more targeted And I'm, you know, 900 00:43:12,925 --> 00:43:15,445 grateful to Councilmember Josiah and grateful to the rest 901 00:43:15,445 --> 00:43:17,712 of the council for giving us some kind of ideas to chew on. 902 00:43:17,712 --> 00:43:18,212 Right. 903 00:43:18,212 --> 00:43:21,265 And I think I think I think you'll get some good feedback. 904 00:43:21,265 --> 00:43:23,575 Right, because that's very specific. 905 00:43:23,575 --> 00:43:26,875 And it's very like down to earth and and it can get kind of 906 00:43:26,875 --> 00:43:30,865 into the it can cut to the quick and it'll be good It'll be good. 907 00:43:30,865 --> 00:43:32,695 So thank you. 908 00:43:32,695 --> 00:43:33,595 Thank you. 909 00:43:33,595 --> 00:43:34,495 Thank you. 910 00:43:34,495 --> 00:43:35,995 Thank you very much. 911 00:43:35,995 --> 00:43:40,915 OK We are to the field trip portion of our work session. 912 00:43:40,915 --> 00:43:42,265 So are we ready to go? 913 00:43:42,265 --> 00:43:43,825 A recorder mentions that you should probably 914 00:43:43,825 --> 00:43:45,745 adjourn actually when you come in for the stand 915 00:43:45,745 --> 00:43:47,485 to adjourn second. 916 00:43:47,485 --> 00:43:49,413 All in favor I.