[1:58] Are you ready?
[1:59] Yeah.
[1:59] OK.
[2:00] Kurt, we're up.
[2:01] Okay.
[2:01] Hello, everyone.
[2:02] The time is 5:03 p.m..
[2:03] Appreciate it.
[2:04] Is August 24 2026.
[2:06] We are here for the Mill Creek
City Council work session
[2:09] Present are council members.
[2:10] We be Caton desire it and
handy and I'm Sherry Jackson.
[2:14] I'm the mayor and our
first item on the agenda
[2:18] is a discussion for the missing
middle housing and neighborhoods
[2:22] with Francis Lilly.
[2:23] Our assistance city manager.
[2:25] Tom, I know you've been
very involved in this,
[2:28] so there's things You
want to chime in on.
[2:31] Good evening Council.
[2:33] Thank you for your time So
this follows up on a discussion
[2:36] that you had with Mike
at our last meeting
[2:40] and this follows up
with the discussion
[2:42] I had with the
Planning Commission
[2:45] on Wednesday last Wednesday.
[2:46] So we're Mike, focused on the
incentive side of increasing
[2:52] of Utah's supply of
affordable housing
[2:54] in Mill Creek I'm going to be
walking you through the planning
[2:59] and zoning tools, both the
tools we've implemented so far,
[3:04] and some ideas for the future.
[3:07] It's so happens that
we are, thanks to you
[3:11] your present decision to set
aside some money in our general
[3:14] in our budget, we are working
on a general plan update
[3:19] and the timing is
right to work this
[3:24] into certain elements
of the general plan
[3:26] and in a systematic way so
that essentially be what
[3:29] our recommendation is tonight.
[3:30] But I wanted to start with
reviewing where reviewing where
[3:37] Mike started his presentation
a couple of weeks ago,
[3:39] and that is we do anticipate
a fairly significant housing
[3:43] shortage by 2030.
[3:44] And this was data It's a
few years old at this point,
[3:47] but this is data of supplied
by Zions Bank public Finance
[3:52] to mill Creek for the millcreek
housing report in 2024.
[3:56] However, the housing shortage
is a little bit more nuanced
[4:00] when you look at the
affordability thresholds that
[4:04] are identified in the
report and act as kind
[4:08] of a baseline for housing
affordability in the county
[4:11] at or below 30%.
[4:13] AMI So 100%.
[4:16] Ami for a family of
two is about 70,000.
[4:20] OK So at, at or below
30%, AMI, there's
[4:23] going to be a housing shortage
of, of 3401 units by 2030.
[4:28] Now that there's
probably nothing
[4:31] that planning regulations
set back rules, height rules
[4:35] and the like can do to solve
that problem We could help,
[4:39] but we probably won't be
able to solve that problem.
[4:41] That requires a level of
significant government
[4:44] intervention.
[4:45] It really is that
that 80 to 100%
[4:47] am I where maybe planning
and zoning can make
[4:51] a significant difference
Francis Let me ask a question
[4:54] So you have a jump
between It shows
[4:57] that there's units for 50%.
[4:59] Am I then there's a deficit
for 80% and then there's we're
[5:04] in the black again, 400%.
[5:06] How does that work?
[5:07] Because couldn't people
who are in the 80%,
[5:08] am I i mean, how does
that calculate Right.
[5:12] So what that talks about is
that if you're if your income.
[5:17] So if you're if you are
50% Ami, what that means
[5:20] is that you can spend x
dollars on mortgage or rent.
[5:24] And utilities right
at 30% of your income
[5:26] is the category at that
level There is anticipated
[5:30] to be a small
surplus or 659 units
[5:33] of housing That's
probably our 80 use.
[5:37] That's probably you know,
some of the class c,
[5:42] you know, existing housing stock
that's that's for rent out there
[5:45] That's probably what that is.
[5:47] But but each of those thresholds
assumes a certain maximum income
[5:51] that you can allocate to
rent but wouldn't then
[5:54] the people who are at 80%
AMI I just rent those units?
[5:58] They could They could,
but it kind of maybe
[6:01] squishes them, right and
a little bit more right.
[6:04] That's a good point Frances,
One question about that
[6:08] is that if all things
remain the same or is
[6:12] that anticipating some
growth in our housing stock.
[6:17] So that that does anticipate
that was basically a snapshot.
[6:20] It did anticipate that the
projects that we had approved
[6:23] would come online within
the 2030 time horizon
[6:27] up to that point So everything
that's been approved
[6:31] are entitled assuming it
got built would be would be
[6:34] reflective of this Now the
truth is every few years,
[6:37] we probably ought to
revisit these numbers right
[6:40] And we might be at a point
where we want to revisit
[6:42] these numbers, because it is
just a point in time count
[6:45] and then, you know, it needs to
be reevaluated What I do know is
[6:50] that, you know, mortgage
interest rates are still high
[6:53] rent has rent rates have
softened just a little bit,
[6:56] but not much.
[6:57] And so I don't anticipate these
numbers being dramatically
[7:00] different now But they
might be in some cases
[7:03] a little bit worse.
[7:04] And in some cases a
little bit better.
[7:06] Can I ask, just to clarify
and question on the AMA I
[7:08] so for people who are watching,
am I for us is roughly what,
[7:12] 78,000, more or less ?
[7:14] Yeah, for a family of two.
[7:16] So a change is right.
[7:17] So thousand 80% of that
that works its way down.
[7:20] Correct.
[7:21] OK.
[7:21] Thank you So another way to
look at the housing challenge
[7:24] is the median home
value in Millcreek.
[7:26] And this is from Zillow As of
today, it changes quite a bit,
[7:30] but according to Zillow, the
median home value is 640,335
[7:34] bucks, which means
that half of the homes
[7:37] in the market are worth
less Half the homes
[7:39] in the market are worth more.
[7:40] And understand to be
affordable at 100%.
[7:43] Am I based on what
we expect mortgage
[7:47] interest rates to be right now?
[7:49] An affordable house is
400, about about $451,000.
[7:52] OK.
[7:53] So most of our housing stock is
priced well above affordability,
[7:59] but interestingly enough,
the most interesting
[8:01] this is this graph
that I found right.
[8:03] And you can see what's
happened between 2019 and 2022.
[8:07] This wasn't always the story
in Millcreek right Millcreek
[8:10] has always been known for an
abundance of real high end
[8:13] housing But there
was also housing
[8:15] opportunity down the line.
[8:16] And within the last within
the last five years or so,
[8:20] that has changed pretty
dramatically in our community.
[8:22] As it has elsewhere
along the Wasatch Front
[8:26] So this next phase
of this presentation
[8:29] really will go into a progress
report on what we've done so
[8:34] far for affordable housing We
pulled from our general plan
[8:39] to do this, to do this quick
presentation for you next week I
[8:44] should have actually a full
progress report on the entirety
[8:47] of our general plan where we
look at every general plan goal
[8:50] and list out what we've
what we've done so far.
[8:54] But for now, I want to
just talk about housing.
[8:56] So both the general
plan and state mandates
[8:59] required compelled
us or encouraged
[9:02] us to to work on
some station area
[9:06] plans to accommodate affordable
housing in our Meadowbrook area.
[9:10] You know, ironically
we had a lot of zoning
[9:12] in place that would
support affordable housing,
[9:14] but we didn't have plans So this
council approved the meadowbrook
[9:21] and Mill Creek Master plan and
the Murray North Master Plan,
[9:23] both of which are
stationed here.
[9:24] Plans and within the station
areas or between them to we
[9:31] have approved since 2018 390
affordable housing units that
[9:35] are built or under construction
in in in the in the Murray North
[9:40] and Meadowbrook Station area
stationary plans the project
[9:44] to you right which
is Howick is 140
[9:47] units of deeply
affordable housing
[9:49] from I believe 35 to 65%.
[9:51] Am I It's a big project.
[9:53] It's a big deal for the
community We've done progress.
[9:56] We've also approved through
development agreement
[10:00] We've worked on affordability
targets and we've and we that
[10:04] have yielded 30 new affordable
housing units that are entitled
[10:06] six of which are built. That's
the Capri homes at about 3,500
[10:10] south northeast
Those are both deed
[10:13] restricted for affordability
and owner occupancy.
[10:16] We did that without
any sort of incentive.
[10:17] We just did it because it
was the right thing to do.
[10:19] And and the developer
was willing to do it.
[10:22] The project on the
left is m.S. 2923
[10:25] In a condo project,
the city council
[10:27] approved just about a
month and a half ago.
[10:29] And that project,
if you remember also
[10:32] involves participation
with some of the incentives
[10:34] that Mike discussed at
the meeting last week
[10:37] or last Two weeks ago
Since 2024, we have
[10:41] reason for additional density.
[10:43] OK.
[10:43] We've done this
all over the place,
[10:45] but I wanted to call out
three particular units that
[10:47] were on corridors
or near corridor
[10:49] or near areas of transit
but also these are projects.
[10:53] This list of five projects
are ones that the council,
[10:57] in its deliberation and almost
treated either affordability
[11:00] or owner occupancy or both
as a sort of tiebreaker
[11:04] because the future land use map
calls for certain thresholds
[11:07] on densities.
[11:08] And in some of these
cases, the council
[11:10] has exceeded those thresholds
because it met other targets
[11:13] in the general plan,
including the provision
[11:15] of some sort of affordability
target and/or owner occupancy.
[11:18] The project on the left on
Garden Drive, our six CPLEX,
[11:22] right.
[11:22] And you remember we went through
the process of working with them
[11:25] on designing these
these units to look
[11:28] a resemble single
family homes and
[11:30] they're under construction now.
[11:32] On the right is is
the project at 4317
[11:34] south 700 east if you
recall that's kind
[11:37] of a blended density that's
that's a blended density
[11:40] and mixed affordable project.
[11:42] It's all market driven.
[11:43] So we don't have a subsidy in,
in in either of these projects
[11:47] But I'm confident that
the 14 units in the front,
[11:50] which are indicated by this
elevation on the right,
[11:53] are going to be affordable
just by virtue of their size
[11:57] and the way they're
configured in the building.
[11:59] And this is a
pretty good looking
[12:00] building from the street.
[12:02] So how big are these
units Oh, gosh, about
[12:05] 8 or 900ft² or one bedroom?
[12:07] Yeah.
[12:07] Our studio the one
bedroom, 1 or 1
[12:09] bedroom, maybe 2, and some of
them same with the Six CPLEX.
[12:13] The six CPLEX is a little bit
bigger so they're probably
[12:16] two bed each of those
Okay We have also reduced
[12:22] or you have reduced setbacks.
[12:24] Just an envelope
requirements and
[12:26] increased lot coverage and
smaller residential zones.
[12:28] These are relatively
recent changes
[12:29] that we haven't seen a whole
lot of action in the space,
[12:32] but we looked at the modest by
design, if not because Two homes
[12:39] in daybreak to be a model
for how we might make
[12:44] our one for our one, three,
and our own five zones
[12:47] work a little bit
better and we have we've
[12:51] made these adjustments
to actually make
[12:53] it a little bit more
easier for a home like this
[12:56] to be built in Mill Creek.
[13:00] I am anecdotal Ali, seeing a lot
more interest in additions now
[13:05] I'm not seeing a lot
of people beating
[13:07] down the door to build a house
like this, though, right?
[13:10] What what people
want to build is
[13:11] something far more,
far more significant,
[13:14] even if it's on a small lot.
[13:16] But we have that
there Oh, I'm sorry.
[13:20] That was from the
previous slide Anyway,
[13:23] the the other project
I want to talk about
[13:26] is this is interesting
This will be the first time
[13:28] you've seen this.
[13:30] And this will probably be the
last time you've seen this.
[13:32] And let me explain why.
[13:34] In 2025, as we did our zoning
and subdivision code update,
[13:38] one of the things that
the council decided
[13:40] was that affordable housing
would be a permitted use,
[13:43] not a conditional use not
a development agreement.
[13:46] It permitted use of
the Planning Commission
[13:47] is not really going
to see this project
[13:49] either Are solid County Housing
authority which is now known
[13:52] as Housing Connect owns the
owns the historic trailer
[13:56] park on Park Hill way between
Second and third East.
[13:59] And they've owned
it for a number
[14:01] of years They bought the
trailers in fairly bad shape
[14:04] and maintain them.
[14:05] And eventually is working on a
plan to rehouse the residents
[14:09] in these trailers.
[14:10] Most of them are aging out
of the they're aging in place
[14:15] and substandard situation I was
relieved that the county housing
[14:18] authority bought this project
because I knew that it would
[14:20] take care of the clients there.
[14:22] Right.
[14:22] And in fact, they
have a whole continuum
[14:24] of housing that
would fit very well
[14:27] for what these folks needed.
[14:30] They never owned or they
may have owned the trailers,
[14:33] but they never
owned the land So it
[14:34] was always communally
owned Well,
[14:36] here's what they want to do.
[14:39] They want to do 70 units of
deeply affordable housing 35%.
[14:43] Am I?
[14:44] It's precisely at that
target that we really
[14:46] can't do much by zoning
But what we can do
[14:50] is we can make it easier for
them to permit the project right
[14:53] and time equals
money, especially
[14:56] for affordable
housing projects where
[14:57] they're pursuing
low income housing
[14:59] tax credits and the like.
[15:00] Right So they're actually
pursuing a low income housing
[15:03] tax credit as a
permitted project,
[15:05] not as a conditional use, not
as a development agreement using
[15:08] the design standards
that we have in our code
[15:10] And that's the type of
building that it produces.
[15:14] We're pretty proud of this.
[15:15] We've just worked with them
as staff to kind of come up
[15:17] with this project and 70
units of deeply affordable
[15:20] housing on the East side.
[15:22] I'm sorry, on the west side
of this, they will be rentals.
[15:25] Yep Owned and managed by housing
connect, which is the Salt
[15:29] Lake County Housing Authority.
[15:31] So this project is made possible
by the permitted use provision
[15:36] and the density bonuses that
are available in our code
[15:39] for affordable housing
This is what the site
[15:42] plan is going to look like.
[15:43] So it will have covered
parking a large garden on
[15:47] and you're looking at the
West half of the site, right?
[15:49] If you look at the East, half
of this bow tie shaped piece
[15:53] they want to subdivide
that for affordable owner
[15:55] occupied housing,
some sort of townhome
[15:57] or row home development.
[15:59] Again, it will be permitted
use it'll be a straightforward
[16:02] subdivision and this wouldn't
be possible right without
[16:05] or wouldn't be possible
in this format.
[16:07] And at the speed without the
changes that we made in the code
[16:13] we've let the
state in permitting
[16:14] detached accessory
dwelling units,
[16:17] we've approved at
least 87 of them
[16:19] so far We also made it
easier to expand a home
[16:23] or build a home on a small lot.
[16:25] Francis i'm sorry,
I have a question
[16:27] on the last the park hill.
[16:28] Yeah.
[16:29] Was that was were
any of those units
[16:32] going to be geared to seniors
citizens at some point Yes.
[16:37] Most most.
[16:38] If not all of those units
will be senior housing OK.
[16:41] And functionally, it's permanent
supportive housing for seniors.
[16:44] It's independent living Right.
[16:46] So it's not permanent
supportive housing in the sense
[16:48] that switch point is
permanent supportive housing.
[16:50] But it really is kind
of like the last stop
[16:54] to prevent these
veteran, these folks
[16:56] from becoming homeless Right.
[16:57] I'm sorry.
[16:57] And did you say that housing
Connect is helping to relocate
[17:02] some of the existing residents
or they already did that,
[17:05] or they're in process
They're in process.
[17:07] Now.
[17:07] Are any of is there
any plans to bring
[17:09] those people into this housing?
[17:11] Yes We have led the state
in permitting 80 years.
[17:18] We have approved at least 87.
[17:20] So far.
[17:20] This is the number that
we reported to the housing
[17:24] to the Department of
Workforce Services this year.
[17:26] And we've also made
it easier to expand
[17:28] home or build on a small lot.
[17:29] And we did that by
adjusting building envelopes
[17:32] and by you know, clarifying
lot coverage and the like.
[17:35] This is important This is
kind of a sleeper issue.
[17:37] This doesn't necessarily
show up theoretically,
[17:39] as an affordable housing issue.
[17:41] But what that's what this
does is it allows someone
[17:44] to reinvest in their property
to update it, thereby relieving
[17:47] pressure on the
market, you know,
[17:49] because they would otherwise
move somewhere else.
[17:51] Yeah And so I think these little
also the cheapest of the most
[17:58] readily available affording
affordable housing stock,
[18:00] you have is the one
that you have right
[18:02] It's in our neighborhoods now
And so the extent to which we
[18:06] can allow people to
build on their equity,
[18:10] make it easier to live,
make it easier to maybe
[18:12] to rent a portion
of their home also
[18:15] helps the affordability
target by,
[18:17] you know, just providing
more opportunities.
[18:19] Right We have reason to
accommodate housing and centers.
[18:23] These two examples.
[18:24] One is the homes on the corner
of Villa Vista in Richmond
[18:27] and the other on the right are
the new residences at olympus
[18:34] Cove Now, these are interesting
because neither these
[18:37] could conceivably be classified
as affordable housing.
[18:41] But again, if you're
thinking about,
[18:44] you know, a strategy that
is universal in its scope
[18:48] there is a place for simply
expanding housing supply.
[18:51] Right and allowing
allowing people to move
[18:54] upmarket when they need to move
or when they desire to move up
[18:57] market, which again relieves
pressure downstream in the class
[19:01] B, Class C space for rentals
and and existing homes
[19:05] for mortgages We also
embrace supportive housing.
[19:11] OK.
[19:11] This is a special this is a
special one for me, right?
[19:14] Because it's not really a
planning regulatory posture
[19:19] that we've taken
but it is direction.
[19:21] I've taken from the city
council to work proactively
[19:24] with the service providers
to make sure that it's
[19:28] a good benefit to the
community and most importantly,
[19:31] a good benefit to
the residents there.
[19:33] And you know, Mayor Jackson,
Councilmember handy,
[19:36] you've been very helpful,
too, in engaging switch
[19:39] point in in this project.
[19:42] But we don't do it with
just switch point right ?
[19:44] I work.
[19:45] I mean i meet quarterly with
the valley Oaks for example,
[19:50] and we have engaged proactively
to, as PD requests with Odyssey
[19:57] house with Turning
Point with Oasis,
[20:02] it's important to build
relationships with them.
[20:04] It's important to build at least
enough camarade agree with them.
[20:08] Between us and the operator
and the resident that it really
[20:12] does make a
difference when when,
[20:15] when a challenge occurs Right?
[20:17] So here's an example.
[20:18] This is the most
effective example
[20:19] that we have And it's
also also credit promise
[20:23] for helping set this up, too.
[20:25] But at the first
anniversary of Switch point,
[20:29] you showed up and and
delivered ice cream.
[20:32] And there's a photo of that.
[20:33] So we do embrace support of
permanent supportive housing,
[20:36] but we don't do it in
a way that's hands off.
[20:38] Right.
[20:39] We know that's that
supportive housing comes
[20:42] with some some trade, some
and potentially some risks
[20:47] if that relationship
isn't handled well.
[20:51] And we are really proud
amongst city staff
[20:54] and in this department and
with update and promise
[20:57] for you know working proactively
with these service providers
[21:00] though thanks to everybody in
earshot for helping that That's
[21:06] what we've done so far right
They don't want us to feel bad
[21:09] But the question is, how have
we moved the dial enough?
[21:13] Maybe not.
[21:13] Maybe there's more we can do.
[21:15] And here are some policy
options that we discussed
[21:18] with the housing subcommittee
on the Planning Commission
[21:21] with the full plenary
planning Commission,
[21:24] and now are discussing with you.
[21:26] One option is to subdivide
or allow for 80 years
[21:30] to be subdivided.
[21:31] We already allow
them in most cases
[21:33] But right now that
ownership has to be
[21:36] tethered to the
same owner, right?
[21:39] So the 80 you cannot be sold or
lease or conveyed separately,
[21:43] but some cities are thinking
of creating that option subject
[21:47] to a deed restriction, ensuring
owner occupancy for both
[21:50] lots So the one
advantage to this
[21:53] is that the uses already there.
[21:54] So the real question is,
what does the ownership
[21:57] mean The other advantages on a
dollar for dollar basis, right?
[22:01] A modest 88 800ft²
is going to be
[22:05] much more affordable
than, you know,
[22:08] the 3,000 square foot home.
[22:09] That's it's next time.
[22:10] So it provides a relatively
inexpensive market driven
[22:13] solution for affordable home
ownership and other cities
[22:15] have tried this, right?
[22:17] It doesn't necessarily
change the built character
[22:20] of a single family
neighborhood because those 80
[22:21] use are already there.
[22:23] However, it might make it
a little bit more likely
[22:25] that someone will do an 80
year if they know that they
[22:27] can sell it in the future.
[22:29] But it also
challenges the notion
[22:31] of what a single
household zone and a lot.
[22:33] So with a certain
lot size minimum
[22:35] means and that that may
require a little bit
[22:40] of soul searching
with our neighborhoods
[22:42] right the next steps.
[22:47] The next steps on
that in the subsequent
[22:49] slides, we'll get to in just
a minute The other question is
[22:54] and we've wrestled with this in
this body just a few weeks ago,
[22:58] should we require and
for affordable city
[23:00] component for reasons
requesting more density.
[23:03] So Farmington actually
requires this.
[23:04] So in other words, if
you come in and ask
[23:07] for a reason for greater
density beyond a certain scope
[23:11] Farmington Code will require
you to do a certain component
[23:14] of that project as
affordable Specifically,
[23:17] the general plan calls us out as
an option There are trade here,
[23:23] too.
[23:23] It may not be effective
unless it's done at scale.
[23:26] So like stone Brook,
which is about 160 units,
[23:28] I'm not sure that it makes
sense for a small project
[23:30] because imagine you're doing
rezoning for units, right?
[23:34] And you say, well, 25% of
those for units or one unit
[23:37] needs to be affordable What
what's really happening,
[23:40] then is the developer
is just subsidizing
[23:42] the cost of that affordable
unit and amortizing
[23:44] out across the other three.
[23:46] I'm not sure that that makes
that big of a difference,
[23:48] but it might be, but it might
make a difference at scale.
[23:52] However, I also know that
land is really, really really,
[23:56] really, really expensive And
if we had this requirement,
[23:59] it might just stop
development in certain areas.
[24:01] Right?
[24:02] Do you know Farmington has had
any like qualms about developers
[24:08] coming in and saying
like, well, we
[24:09] don't want to participate Like,
do they have has it slowed
[24:12] their development in any way?
[24:14] I don't I don't think so.
[24:17] Farmington is mostly infill now.
[24:20] I mean, around
Station Park, they've
[24:21] done a lot of
affordable stuff already
[24:23] for like tax credit, whatnot.
[24:25] But interestingly enough,
Silvia is the the developers
[24:31] are tying this
affordability component
[24:33] to that adu subdivision idea.
[24:36] So you'll actually have
a developer come in
[24:38] and say, I want to do
single family homes,
[24:40] but I'm going to subdivide
these these, these Adu lots.
[24:44] And that's the bank.
[24:46] And that might make
sense for Farmington
[24:48] because they have what
they, what they have most of
[24:50] and that's not a lot is just
infill single family right
[24:57] another option.
[24:58] And councilmember desire has
suggested this is something
[25:03] to consider should we consider
up zoning for higher densities
[25:06] near public schools Now I
approached this question
[25:08] to the Planning Commission.
[25:09] And they had some interesting
ideas to One idea.
[25:13] And Tom, correct me if I'm
wrong or feel free to step in,
[25:17] but a well-designed overlay
zone or alternative development
[25:20] standard could secure affordable
ownership opportunities.
[25:22] Areas closest to schools that
face declining enrollment.
[25:25] The goal here is to create
the type of housing that
[25:28] is attractive to those types
of families that would go
[25:30] to the schools and would
essentially, you know,
[25:32] prevent these schools
from from closing.
[25:37] And in the concept
could be duplexes.
[25:39] Triplexes fourplex is in
areas within a quarter
[25:43] or half a mile of
a public school.
[25:45] Of course, there are some
considerations in order to make
[25:49] it family friendly right?
[25:50] You would need to have
a relatively high number
[25:52] of minimum, a number of
bedrooms to make it work,
[25:55] which means you would need to
work on parking, which also
[25:58] means that you would
need to somehow work out
[26:00] some sort of plan
for deed restrictions
[26:01] to ensure affordability
or occupancy The Planning
[26:06] Commission was intrigued
by this idea, To be honest
[26:09] and in fact, a
couple of them said,
[26:11] should we consider hospitals
and parks as also opportunities
[26:14] for this type of concept
recognizing that, you know
[26:18] our single family
neighborhoods in many cases
[26:21] aren't really single
family neighborhoods,
[26:23] What they are mixed right?
[26:24] Most of our neighborhoods
in no creek are mixed.
[26:26] Not all, but many of them are.
[26:29] And One thing that
was mentioned is
[26:32] this could be tied to
preapproved house plans So here
[26:35] are some examples from South
Bend where they've actually
[26:40] essentially developed
these preapproved house
[26:44] plans that, you know,
someone can come in and buy
[26:47] and your plan reviews
are already done.
[26:49] Right You just have to do a
quick code review to make sure
[26:52] that it fits on the lot
And South Bend has gone
[26:55] into enough detail
where they've said,
[26:57] you know, this six
unit apartment building
[26:59] is allowed in certain areas.
[27:01] And this two bedroom cottage
is allowed in certain areas.
[27:04] It's very neighborhood specific
I bring this up because there's
[27:08] movement at the state
level, maybe to help
[27:11] support cities to do this.
[27:13] There's also grant
money available
[27:14] through the new bipartisan
housing bill that was set aside.
[27:18] This could be a way to do it It
requires us to really understand
[27:22] what the building
envelope is, and that's
[27:23] why, in a kind of a
previous discussion
[27:25] we mentioned, we might want to
set aside some money to actually
[27:28] have an architect explore
how these units would fit
[27:31] within our existing
building envelope,
[27:33] because all things being
equal, right, as long
[27:35] as you handle the parking and
as long as you handle, you know,
[27:38] coverage setback and height,
if you can design these things
[27:41] to look as much like
a single family home
[27:43] they might not look that much
different than the duplexes
[27:46] or triplexes We already have
in many of our neighborhoods.
[27:49] But this requires I think,
a lot of study and work
[27:53] I'm also not sure that
there's a guarantee
[27:55] that families with school
age children will attend
[27:57] and there's really no way for
us to force that to happen
[28:00] for a fair housing rules.
[28:01] So i think I think
this is definitely
[28:05] worth this is definitely worth
pursuing you know, understanding
[28:09] that there's you know,
engagement and trade to be
[28:12] had here and ask a question.
[28:14] Yes.
[28:14] So I know the majority of our
schools are in Beds district.
[28:19] I they're in a lot of
the older neighborhoods.
[28:23] I'm thinking of
like district Three.
[28:25] I know there's areas
where people have wanted.
[28:28] They've had larger lots
and wanted to subdivide
[28:31] and they couldn't because
the waterline is not
[28:34] large enough to support that.
[28:36] And I mean, and throughout
the whole neighborhood.
[28:37] So has there been a
conversation with Salt Lake
[28:40] City public utilities or
anything because that would
[28:42] require additional water that
would require separate metering
[28:47] and not only with water,
but with power and gas
[28:51] and all of that which is
might be a heavy lift.
[28:56] Has there been conversations?
[28:57] Not yet.
[28:59] I mean and we're actually going
to recommend kind of a process
[29:04] to begin those conversations
in a way that allows
[29:08] these ideas to develop and
Francis has some good thoughts
[29:13] on how we'll be able
to continue to say
[29:15] and flesh those out
in a slide or two.
[29:16] So some of these questions
might be answered shortly Yeah.
[29:19] All right.
[29:20] So another option is
housing preservation
[29:22] And don't ever be sorry
Housing preservation.
[29:26] And should the question
here is, should
[29:28] the city require that
affordable housing be replaced?
[29:31] If it is demolished ?
[29:32] This issue came up with the
expansion of St Mark's, which
[29:35] took out 6 or 7
units. in that case,
[29:38] there was enough community
reinvest money set aside
[29:42] to help offset that
through, you know,
[29:44] some of the other
city's housing goals.
[29:46] But salt Lake City has
adopted an ordinance
[29:48] that prohibits the
demolition of housing
[29:50] and commercial parking lots.
[29:51] And this topic is
this topic came up.
[29:54] The planning commission was
really mixed on this right?
[29:58] There was concern about how
this could be a very rough tool
[30:03] and that maybe the
city's best interest is
[30:07] deployed in a more
demand side or supply
[30:11] or demand side approach.
[30:13] But there are some planning
commissioners that felt really
[30:15] strongly that we ought to
consider this I will say
[30:18] that the St Mark's project was
the first time that I witnessed
[30:22] housing being removed
for a commercial use
[30:26] and not a mixed use, right.
[30:28] Most of the time housing is
demolished for more housing.
[30:30] There were handfuls a
scattering of housing units
[30:33] on top of city hall.
[30:34] But now there's
much more around us
[30:36] commercial encroachment
into neighborhood
[30:38] residential neighborhoods
is rare and protecting,
[30:41] but protecting existing
housing is the easiest strategy
[30:44] and it does relieve some
development pressure.
[30:45] Now, real quick,
right I think there
[30:51] are there are policy
statements in our general plan
[30:54] and then there are ordinances
that are hard and fast rules.
[30:57] This could be a policy
statement and a general plan
[31:00] to help guide development
decisions in the future.
[31:04] It does not necessarily
need to be an ordinance
[31:06] And then finally,
missing middle reasons.
[31:09] So the question here
is like, should we
[31:11] reconsider our zoning map
and our flu map to encourage
[31:13] missing middle housing?
[31:14] Just look at it more globally.
[31:16] So functionally, many
of our neighborhoods
[31:18] have duplexes in them
due to historic zoning
[31:22] This would unlock the
possibility of gentle density
[31:24] if we did it the right way.
[31:26] We have a general
plan that supports
[31:27] this idea in part right?
[31:30] There are some specific
goals called out
[31:31] that talked about you
know, making, you know,
[31:34] targeted interventions into
our single family neighborhoods
[31:36] to support higher
density where appropriate
[31:39] However, the general plan
also calls out for keeping
[31:41] these single family
neighborhoods intact
[31:44] Our Northeast Corridor
study that we did last year
[31:47] identified maybe some
opportunities along the corridor
[31:49] that we could expand
options for housing.
[31:52] However, this requires
substantial engagement and study
[31:55] and this might require
a more granular approach
[31:57] to our future land use map that
then than the current map really
[32:01] allows us to do which is one
of the reasons why we requested
[32:05] as staff some money to redo
our general plan So here's
[32:09] our recommendation This
came from the Planning
[32:11] Commission meeting.
[32:12] And this came from a
discussion with staff
[32:14] what they would
like us to do now
[32:16] or what they would suggest
that we do now is that we adopt
[32:19] the third South and
Northeast Corridor plan
[32:21] So I'm going to take that
to the Planning Commission
[32:23] in the next couple of
months in this fall
[32:25] will bring that to you.
[32:26] They also recommended
that we actually
[32:28] make some tweaks to
the future land use
[32:30] map of the Northeast corridor.
[32:32] You know early this year or
later this year or early next,
[32:35] because that's where
we are seeing a lot
[32:36] of the development pressure.
[32:38] We could do that now.
[32:39] We don't have to wait
The planning Commission
[32:41] had an interesting idea.
[32:42] Invite developers who specialize
in missing middle housing
[32:45] to a strategy meeting
and begin to build
[32:47] a relationship with them.
[32:49] The truth is the
type of development
[32:50] that I'm seeing right now is
not accommodating this right.
[32:53] Most of the people who
come to us sight unseen
[32:56] want to build townhomes right?
[32:58] And and those townhomes are they
want to sell for three quarters
[33:01] of $1 million, which is crazy.
[33:03] But that's the way that
that's what the market.
[33:07] But that's what the market
is presenting to us.
[33:09] I would like to get you know,
people in the room who are who
[33:12] are who are really interested
in building modest homes
[33:15] and just see how that works.
[33:17] And what, if anything,
is in the way and what,
[33:20] if anything, can the city
do now to consider as part
[33:24] of the general plan update
The just to, you know,
[33:27] the planning
commission was pretty
[33:28] warm to you know, any
or all of these ideas,
[33:30] to varying intensities.
[33:31] But they felt pretty
strongly that you know,
[33:35] since we're going to be doing
a general plan that we really
[33:37] ought to roll
these conversations
[33:39] into that whole process
and i thought to myself,
[33:42] a general plan is a two
year document, right?
[33:44] I don't want necessarily
want to wait two years.
[33:46] How might we roll
the how how might
[33:48] we roll this into the process
to give us and you the option
[33:52] to make some policy
decisions more rapidly,
[33:55] you know, given the urgency
of the housing issues
[33:58] So Isaac jested that we
actually start Arkansas Colton
[34:02] Right on the process of
doing targeted policy
[34:06] briefings on these ideas.
[34:09] School oriented development
design considerations
[34:11] missing military zones,
housing preservation strategies
[34:14] in general, and
subdividing ideas
[34:16] to look at the trade
to engage the public
[34:20] on the specific topic.
[34:21] I don't necessarily want to
go back to the public and say,
[34:23] Do you want more housing?
[34:25] Right?
[34:26] But what I want to do is
go to the public and like,
[34:28] here are some options.
[34:29] What do you think the policy
brief would review literature
[34:34] and gather data and
the policy brief
[34:36] would make recommendations?
[34:37] What I'm anticipating is
that these policy briefs will
[34:39] be delivered to you
1 or 2 at a time,
[34:42] and then we can actually
begin to move on.
[34:45] Ordinance changes at that
time, if the City Council does,
[34:49] if the city council desires.
[34:51] The advantage of that is
that each of these items
[34:54] requires a healthy amount
of engagement and pretty
[34:58] sophisticated engagement to.
[35:00] Secondly it might benefit us to
have a third party just handle
[35:04] that conversation because
some of these conversations,
[35:07] although the reality is,
you know the reality is they
[35:10] may not make that
much of a difference
[35:11] in our neighborhood cycle.
[35:13] Logically, they can be a
big difference to people,
[35:15] right, in how they
conceive of them, how
[35:18] they perceive
their neighborhoods
[35:19] and our needs have
help with that.
[35:21] Right.
[35:21] That's not something that I
don't think I could lead out
[35:24] on successfully for the city.
[35:27] Right.
[35:28] That and that's that's sometimes
why we hire consultants to kind
[35:31] of help us almost
act as a buffer
[35:34] and to give the residents
a kind of a third party
[35:36] to have these kind of candid,
sometimes fraught discussions
[35:39] on, but also they have the time.
[35:42] And they have the ability
to really look broadly
[35:46] And, we're busy kind
of doing other things.
[35:48] So I thought this might
be a good approach
[35:51] My goal here is to not kind
of sit on these right once.
[35:55] For example, the school or in
a development thing was done.
[35:58] We would bring it to you.
[35:59] And we would, you know, we would
present the policy brief we
[36:02] would look at the trade offs.
[36:03] We would give you an
analysis of the data.
[36:05] We would report on community
feedback and then we would,
[36:09] you know allow you to kind of
make a decision at that point.
[36:12] And we would do each
of these in sequence.
[36:15] And what do you think
I have a few questions.
[36:18] I can your butt back one slide.
[36:21] So this is what
you're presenting
[36:23] and I thank you for the very
thoughtful just analysis of all
[36:27] this I'll tell you
for me, I would really
[36:29] like to look at what the missing
middle zone middle reasons
[36:33] could look like.
[36:35] And this is I might be
jumping around in this,
[36:37] but the anticipation of
what housing will cost
[36:41] when the Olympics come or
as labor and the economy
[36:46] increases as far as how it's
associated with the Olympics
[36:52] I mean, that cost of living is
going to go up significantly.
[36:55] So that is a future.
[36:56] But having that larger
perspective of knowing
[36:59] that housing is going to
increase, I'd really like,
[37:03] at least for me,
I'd like to see how
[37:04] we address the
missing middle reasons
[37:07] or however this
is priority test.
[37:09] Second is the school
oriented development
[37:14] because the majority of the
schools are in my district,
[37:16] I'm just thinking a
mile, two mile and a half
[37:19] is the potential for this
to look at future rezoning
[37:23] because there's a lot of single
family homes that are currently
[37:27] there Does that entail the city
coming in to buy homes to then
[37:32] create, or is this a
phase out of those,
[37:36] say say, a developer purchases
2 or 3 homes who happen
[37:40] which happened to be on sale.
[37:43] Does that entail Oh, I'm just
thinking of all the schools
[37:47] and a quarter mile to a
mile from those schools
[37:50] are all still very I can
answer that question.
[37:55] OK.
[37:55] So when I First started
looking into this,
[37:57] I had Brian Poole on
Map and I can get you
[38:01] that map of what it
would look like if it
[38:04] was a mile around every school.
[38:06] And if it was a mile
around every school.
[38:08] It's effectively the entire
city by thought is really
[38:13] it should just be a quarter mile
And then second, it wouldn't we
[38:19] wouldn't have the
city doing this.
[38:20] It would just be an overlay
zone where if I developer wants
[38:23] to go and buy a house
that's up for sale
[38:26] and is willing to go put in
a 3 to four bedroom units
[38:32] that have enough parking
and that are for sale
[38:35] and deed restricted, they
would be able to do that.
[38:39] And then I also thank you.
[38:41] I appreciate and I would
love to see them out.
[38:43] One of the other concerns.
[38:45] I have, too, is just the
recent school closure
[38:50] discussions that we've had.
[38:52] So when we're looking at the
school oriented development
[38:54] with school closures
happening does
[38:57] the overlay of around the
schools that could potentially.
[39:01] I mean, birth rates not
going up significantly
[39:04] you know, right now.
[39:05] So as we see a decline
in the birth rates are we
[39:11] are we conscious
of how that affects
[39:16] the zones around the schools?
[39:18] If they are potentially
going to be closed?
[39:20] And the intent was
the initial intent
[39:23] was to entice young families to
kind of keep those schools open.
[39:28] Mm hmm.
[39:28] So I'm just I'm
throwing it out there,
[39:30] know the mayor and council,
these are good questions.
[39:32] And there's no way we'll
be able to answer them all.
[39:34] Obviously, in this forum or this
afternoon But I think Francis
[39:38] and planning's request is, hey,
that they're already proceeding
[39:41] with the general plan
update It's in the budget
[39:43] for this fiscal year.
[39:44] Should they be looking at
some of these specific housing
[39:47] strategies and maybe
some other ones?
[39:49] And the third party experts
will get in and come back
[39:51] and say, you know what, that's
a good idea or you know what?
[39:54] This idea doesn't
really pencil or.
[39:56] And so his question, the thing
he wants you to think of tonight
[40:00] is, are these Five good things
that we should have the analysis
[40:05] of the general plan update look
at and/or are there other things
[40:07] that you may think
of, you don't even
[40:09] have to answer that tonight.
[40:10] The point of tonight was just
kind of a bit of a thought
[40:12] starter and we certainly
have other work
[40:14] meetings in the future to
discuss housing to Yeah,
[40:17] absolutely.
[40:18] And just thinking about the
school oriented design and Bev's
[40:21] district, if you're looking at
Skyline, Wasatch Upland Terrace,
[40:25] that's pretty I mean, a quarter
of a mile, that's pretty much
[40:27] that whole stretch of East
Millcreek I'm concerned
[40:30] that there aren't any
representatives from District
[40:32] four that have been
involved in this discussion
[40:35] because the Planning
Commissioners are
[40:36] are in district to i don't know
if they're in District three,
[40:40] but that's that's that the
neighborhood that really is
[40:44] because it's seven seven schools
in district Four that's that's
[40:48] the neighborhood
that is going to be
[40:50] most heavily
impacted and changed
[40:52] if that were to come about.
[40:54] So I'd really like to
get a lot of feedback
[40:56] from people who live
in that neighborhood
[40:59] just to kind of gauge the
temperature on and what that
[41:03] looks like, because I also
gauging the temperature
[41:06] you can determine where
the priorities go in Like
[41:11] I think this is a great plan,
and do we move to design
[41:14] considerations not to see any
diminish in any means anyway
[41:18] Sure.
[41:19] But it allows at least
some of the resident to be
[41:23] more impacted and potentially
even granted school.
[41:26] I mean, yeah they may
know things we don't
[41:29] know about school closures.
[41:30] I don't we don't know
It'd be helpful to know
[41:34] to i don't think they know
anything at this Okay.
[41:39] Thank you.
[41:40] That was my feedback.
[41:41] Yeah.
[41:41] No, thank you.
[41:42] So are you looking for any
more direction from us tonight,
[41:44] or is this just kind of
to get the conversation
[41:46] started and will come back?
[41:47] I think i think the do.
[41:49] Now the three that
you have make sense.
[41:51] And I think that's something
we can start moving ahead on.
[41:55] OK that future land
use map and zone
[41:58] changes in the in
the general plan
[42:00] update that's that's a longer.
[42:03] I think items four and five
mayor will come back to you
[42:05] in the coming weeks and months
though not tons and months,
[42:08] but as we pick a consult
in and give direction
[42:11] we agree this is
something we need
[42:12] to get ahead of so that we're
not really behind the curve,
[42:16] especially with So I'll
leave you with this.
[42:20] When we did our
last general plan,
[42:21] there was no staff and about two
thirds of the way through it,
[42:24] I was hired This time we
have a staff of ten, right?
[42:30] And so we're approaching this
general plan a little bit
[42:32] differently.
[42:33] I don't need the consultant
to come in and write
[42:36] the whole thing right.
[42:37] We could do it ourselves.
[42:38] We have an amazing amazing,
highly skilled, very competent
[42:43] cartographer in our
department who can
[42:45] actually do a lot of this, too.
[42:46] And he's already doing
some of the analysis Sean
[42:49] and Brad and Carlos are
working with me on this, too.
[42:52] So we're going to be in the
pilot seat in this general plan.
[42:55] And so what I need
the consultant to do
[42:57] is really some very
discrete tasks,
[43:01] right And the other
thing I don't want to do
[43:03] is just kind of throw
them into a public meaning
[43:05] that's entirely open ended.
[43:06] I think it's I think i think
our discussions will be far more
[43:09] successful if they're far more
targeted And I'm, you know,
[43:12] grateful to Councilmember
Josiah and grateful to the rest
[43:15] of the council for giving us
some kind of ideas to chew on.
[43:17] Right.
[43:18] And I think I think I think
you'll get some good feedback.
[43:21] Right, because
that's very specific.
[43:23] And it's very like down to
earth and and it can get kind of
[43:26] into the it can cut to the quick
and it'll be good It'll be good.
[43:30] So thank you.
[43:32] Thank you.
[43:33] Thank you.
[43:34] Thank you very much.
[43:35] OK We are to the field trip
portion of our work session.
[43:40] So are we ready to go?
[43:42] A recorder mentions
that you should probably
[43:43] adjourn actually when
you come in for the stand
[43:45] to adjourn second.
[43:47] All in favor I.