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Everything.
>> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and

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happy new year.
>> Thank you.

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» This is the town council meeting,
Monday, January 5th, 7 p.m. Please join

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me in the pledge of allegiance

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to the flag of the United States of
America to the republic for which it

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stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice

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for all.
>> Thank you. Please be seated.

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» First of all, we'll do the uh the roll
call. Uh Miss Khan

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» here.
>> Mr. Silva,

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» present.
>> Miss Story

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» here.
>> Miss Ryder Fox

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» here. Bob McKe present. Mr. Burke
>> present.

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» Miss Sander
>> present.

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» Mr. O'Neal
>> present.

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» Mr. Mason
>> present.

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» And Mr. Preston
>> present.

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» Matt Davis is is absent this year.
>> May I have a motion please to adopt the

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agenda?
>> So move Mr. Mayor.

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» Have a second.
>> Second. All

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» in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed?

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Motion.

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Okay. Want to highlight to the evening.
We'll get right to it. Swearing of of a

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new chief of police.

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» Absolutely.

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David Moyer having been duly appointed
and confirmed.

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» David Moyer having been duly appointed
and confirmed

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» as chief of police for the town of
Millsboro.

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police for Millsboro
>> do solemnly swear

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» or affirm that
>> do solemnly

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» swear
>> swear or affirm

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» I will support obey and defend the
Constitution of the United States

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» I will support obey and defend the
Constitution of the United States

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» the Constitution and laws of the state
of Delaware

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» constitution and laws of the state of
Delaware

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» and the ordinances of the town of
Millsboro

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» and the ordinances of the town of
Millsboro

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» I will faithfully, impartially, and
diligently

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» who will faithfully, impartially, and
diligently

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» discharge the duties
>> discharge the duties

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» of the office of the chief of police
>> of the office of the chief of police

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» according to the best of my ability.
>> according to the best of my abilities.

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» I will uphold the highest standards of
integrity. I will uphold the highest

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standards of integrity,
>> professionalism,

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» professionalism,
>> and ethical conduct

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» and ethical conduct
>> in the performance of my duties

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» in the performance of my duties
>> and will lead the Millsboro Police

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Department
>> will lead the Millsboro Police

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Department
>> with fairness

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» fairness,
>> accountability, and respect.

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» accountability and respect.
>> I will protect the rights, safety, and

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well-being.
>> I will protect the

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Sorry. Safety and well-being
>> of all residents, visitors

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» of all residents, visitors
>> and members of the community

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» and members of the community
>> without bias or prejudice

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» without without bias or prejudice.
>> I will strive to enhance public trust

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» I will strive to enhance public trust
>> through transparent leadership

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» through transparent leadership,
>> community engagement

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» community engagement
>> and dedication to justice.

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» and dedication to justice.
>> So help me God. No,

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» congratulations.

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That was a tough act to follow. But uh
one more

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oath of office for K9 handler
>> and bandit.

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» Yeah.
Does the dog have to repeat that?

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» So, this is Millsboro's first ever
police. We've never had one before. Um,

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this was a project I can't take credit
for. Our prior chief, Callaway, he

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initiated this project. Um, and Corporal
Justice was selected as the handler for

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this. He has completed his training
through the Delaware State Police and um

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they're already um ready to go to work
and we're we're proud and ready to swear

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them in as our first ever history of
Millsboro uh police handler or K9

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handler and police.
>> Okay, we're all ready.

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I Corporal Cody Justice
>> Corpal Cody Justice

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» do solemnly swear
that I and Bandit K9

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will faithfully serve the town of
Millsboro

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» faithfully
>> and the Millsboro Police Department

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» Police Department
>> with loyalty, courage, and dedication.

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» Loyalty, courage, and dedication.
>> We will protect life and property

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» life and property.
>> I will assist my canine and fellow

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officers.
>> My canine and fellow officers

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» and uphold the law to the best of my
training and ability.

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We will serve with integrity,
>> remain steadfast in the face of danger,

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» danger,
>> and carry out my duties with honor and

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pride.
We promise to use our skills to keep our

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community safe.

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to stand watch when others cannot.
>> And to serve as a symbol of trust

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» symbol
>> between the police and citizens of

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Millsboro.
>> symbol of trust of the citizens and the

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citizens of the sorry [laughter]
I accept this oath freely and proudly. I

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accept this freely and proudly
>> from this way forward

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as long as I'm able to serve.
So help me God. Congratulations.

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[laughter]
>> He's the star of the show. Sorry, Moyer.

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Okay, very good.
>> Any uh public comments tonight?

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» None, sir.
>> Nothing online.

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Okay, move right along. Uh secretar's
report.

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I'd like to make a motion that we adopt
the minutes from the 1st of December,

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2025 town council meeting. Can we pause
just one second? We'll just let some of

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these uh folks filter out.

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overflow.
>> Yep.

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» Is Is there anyone in the overflow room?
There's some seats available in the main

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room.

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» I think they're coming up. Sorry.
We just saw him around the corner.

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Yeah.
>> Okay. I I think we're good. All right.

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Mr. Silva has made a motion. to uh to
accept the meeting minutes. Do we have a

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second?
>> A second.

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» All in favor say I.
>> I.

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» Any opposed?
>> Motion passed.

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Uh treasurer's report. Mr. Mason,
>> I make a motion that we pay the

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designated bills out of the appropriate
accounts as presented.

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» You have a second, please.
>> I'll second.

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All in favor say I.
>> I. I.

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» Any opposed? Motion passed. Thank you.
>> Millsboro Fire Company update. Or did I

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skip? No. Fire Company. Sorry. Mr.
O'Neal.

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» Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, unfortunately,
we closed out uh

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2025 with 700 fire calls. the last one
coming in I think at 11:57

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uh p.m. on on the 31st which pushed us
to 700 which is real real close to uh

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our biggest number. I think last year it
was like 7:04. Um the EMS calls were

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right around 5,000. I don't have the
exact count yet but we're right around

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5,000 EMS calls. So, our our guys are
extremely busy, which makes it uh uh

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even more uh important that we see uh uh
some of our title health and BB

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healthcare um partners move into town.
So, we're really looking forward to that

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to help us out. Uh again, our our junior
program, actually, they're training

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tonight on uh some of the ice rescue
suits that we have. So, again, we're

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very very fortunate to have a good
junior program and those guys are

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working hard tonight uh along with a
residential fire alarm that we just had.

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So, um, it's our report for tonight,
sir. Thank you very much.

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» Thank you and your staff very much.
>> All right. Greater Millsboro Chamber of

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Commerce. Uh, Mr. Burke will fill us in.
>> All right. Uh, we received an update

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from the chamber today. Uh, Nadian sends
her, uh, happy new year wishes. Uh,

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they've had six new members in the past
month, including the new coffee shop,

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uh, Lanni's Bruise and William B. Civil
Son's monuments, both right here in

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town. uh busy working on our annual
wellness fair which will take place

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Saturday, February 14th from 10:00 to 2
at the Indian River Senior Center. This

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is free and open to the public. We have
some great vendors lined up and do have

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some sponsorship and vendor spots still
available. Contact Naen at the chamber

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for more information. On April 24th,
they'll host the first grill and groove

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featuring live classic rock music,
dancing, barbecue, and raffles. This

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will be held at the Millsboro Fire Hall
and we'll be making a donation to the

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fire department as a result of the
event. Please save the date and come out

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and enjoy a fun evening while supporting
a very worthy cause. Uh they will be

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partnering with the town to celebrate
our country's 250th birthday for our

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annual Stars and Stripes taking place on
June 27th. This will be a great event.

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Tomorrow they have the monthly coffee
connect from 8:00 am to 9:30 a.m. at

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Avid Hotel and their popup event,
holiday vendor event at the Chamber went

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really well. Uh thanks to the town for
the amazing lights on the building. Many

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compliments were received and we're
hoping that this sets a nice trend

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downtown. And that's from Naen of the
chamber.

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» Very good. Thank you.
All right, police department's report.

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Chief Moya,
>> let me first off start by saying thank

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you um for um appointing me the chief of
police. I hope to not let you guys down

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and make you guys very proud. Um I
didn't get a moment to say it up there

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um but it means a lot that that
happened. So thank you again. I look

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forward to working with each and every
one of you guys very closely. Um so um

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we'll start off by going through the
enforcement data. um that was provided

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in your packet. So, uh just a caveat to
this, I was informed after I created the

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report um that the statistics had not
been updated since December 12th. Um

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there was a computer. So, I used a lot
of the states design programs and they

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found a a glitch in their error that the
reporting system stopped updating as of

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December 12th. So, some of these uh
numbers are not accurately reflected um

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towards the end of the year, but as you
can see based on from December 12th, um

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we're we're not too far off from
previous year's numbers. Um and I I took

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the liberty of putting in their
percentages of um where if if we're in

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going up or down on each one of the
crimes.

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Uh the good news is is uh there's no uh
reported accident collisions at that

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Laurel Road and Delaware Avenue um in
the past month which is you know another

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positive insight that uh some of the
traffic uh measures that the council has

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taken in regards from Delot seem to be
improving that intersection. Um

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we'll we'll still see and we'll continue
to monitor it as trafficking increases

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throughout the summer. Any

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questions on um enforcement data that I
can answer for anybody?

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» One quick one, Chief. Um
the rape numbers from 24 to 25 went up

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significantly. I think it's percentage
is actually wrong. Looks like

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significantly more than that. But
somewhere else in the report

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um it looked like the classification of
and other crimes

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um
sex offenses

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went down significantly. I wonder if
there was definitional change there or

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» so yeah um and I spoke um with this a
little bit about um at our pack meeting

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um and I was able to afterwards draw
five years worth of data. So we

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fluctuate up and down um over the last
five years. This is I would say the

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highest number and partly because of
that what I would say is our victim

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advocate um is catching crimes that
otherwise wouldn't have been labeled a

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rape. She's catching them. She's
advocating for these victims and

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catching incences that we maybe the
officer either charged inappropriately

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or maybe there's additional evidence
that was presented to her by the victim

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that increases into a rape charge. Um,
and so it it's a it's an idea of the

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system working. Um, obviously I don't
like to see the numbers at 26. Um, but I

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what I will say is that we're getting to
more of these victims. Um, reporting is

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going up. We're getting the education
out there as far as the rules of consent

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um and what constitutes a rape and what
um and not and and a lot of these rapes

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are we are uh federally funded through
VAWA violence against women which

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specifically deals with domestic
violence and a lot of times in domestic

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violence rapes are under reportported um
so we're actually uh I think in this

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avenue a lot of these rapes are domestic
related and being reported So, it's

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unfortunate, but it it's it's actually a
positive thing that we're able to help

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more victims.
>> Thanks.

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» I have a different question. Just for
clarification, when I looked at the

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numbers, you have down at the bottom,
you have burglary, theft, auto theft,

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and all others. What What defines all
others? What's what's the catchment? I

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mean, what are some of the things?
>> Are you under part two crimes or

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» Yes. No, part one.
>> Part one.

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» Part one. All others. um
>> like what would be some of those that

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you would define?
>> So those are your going to be your

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higher level felonies. Um and
so for instance, you have other sex

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crimes. Sex crimes can be a misdemeanor.
Um but there may be other felony level

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sex crimes whether it be um continuous
sexual abuse of a child or

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um child abuse first degree whatnot.
those all fall under the all others. So

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they they're considered a part one
crime. Um but the way the system again I

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I draw these numbers from the state
system called uh crime view and the way

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the system labels it I guess they're not
going to list out every single one. They

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list out the meanings that people are
most.

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» Well that does make sense since you have
the advocate now. Yes. You're going to

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get much more. So that makes sense.
Thank you.

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» To piggyback on that question.
>> Okay. Uh, the weapons is a part two

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crime. Does that ever get recategorized
depending on what's involved to a part

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one that's not under one of those
categories?

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» If the weapon was used against a person,
I believe it would move into a part one

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00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:04,240
crime. If it's just simple possession,
it can be a felony, but be under

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00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,320
» like a possession of an illegal weapon.
>> Correct.

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00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:11,280
» That would be a part one. [snorts]
>> Um, possession of an illegal weapon. I

218
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:15,280
don't believe um part one crimes are
typically going to be labeled as

219
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:18,720
felonies against another human being.
Okay.

220
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:23,760
» Um whereas possession of like we've had
recently obliterated serial number. Yes,

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00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:26,080
it's a felony but it doesn't it against
an individual.

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00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,559
» Okay.
>> Any other questions?

223
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:38,400
» All right. Um uh second on the uh list
is just uh clarification on the

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00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:44,320
expansion in uh jurisdiction for the
Milsboro Police Department. Um I know it

225
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:50,160
was released in the media um Milsboro
has achieved or with the permission of

226
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:54,640
the Department of Justice received uh
statewide jurisdiction. This was kind of

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00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:58,320
something that's been in the works a
long time with the former chief as far

228
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:04,400
as trying to clear up some boundary
issues as to where we can and can can't

229
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:07,919
enforce um uh
traffic violations in areas that

230
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:12,400
obviously have a nexus to the town of
Millsboro, affect the residents of

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00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:16,880
Millsboro. Um so, you know, we worked
with the Department of Justice. We the

232
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:21,200
first step in that was granting us uh
statewide jurisdiction. out. Even though

233
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:27,919
it says statewide jurisdiction, there is
it is limited and we still probably will

234
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:32,160
have to work out uh language on that
going forward. Um but as of right now,

235
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:37,280
we have that statewide jurisdiction, but
it is limited um into the sense that it

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00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:44,320
needs to have a nexus to Millsboro and
the safety of our residents that live in

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00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:47,760
the town. Any questions on that?
or the uh is Delaware State Police

238
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:52,559
involved in that?
>> So, we initially tried to develop anou

239
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:57,120
with the Delaware State Police. Um
>> and the law allows two different

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00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:02,960
avenues. One develop anou with another
jurisdictional agency. Um for instance,

241
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:07,760
if uh another town needed our assistance
with with policing the nearby town, we

242
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:12,640
see this commonly with other towns. They
would develop anou. um that was

243
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:18,400
ultimately supported by the Cussus
County Administration but then denied um

244
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:21,840
later on. Um so we put in a request with
the Department of Justice and the

245
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,600
Department of Justice granted it. And
again, like I said, um we may have to

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00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:29,679
fine-tune this process as we go along.
We want to make sure that everybody's

247
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,880
happy and that everybody's working in
agreement. And I want to make sure that

248
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:37,679
this is very limited in the
jurisdictional powers. Gotcha. And

249
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,720
clearly defined. Thank you, sir.
>> Any other questions?

250
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:48,080
Um, recruit Justin Harvey has completed
his field training and is now on full

251
00:20:45,919 --> 00:20:54,159
duty. He's doing great actually as well.
Um, we we just calculated his fourth

252
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:58,720
quarter stats from his time on FAO. He's
he's he's doing phenomenal. So, we're

253
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:04,720
really proud of him. We're looking to
fill three vacancies. Um, and we are

254
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:11,200
projecting full staff of 21 officers um
by the end of 2026. Um, so we're excited

255
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:16,480
about that. Um, Autumn Potter, I know
I've said this in the past, but she is

256
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:20,720
graduating February 19th, 2026,
um, the State Police Academy, and we

257
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,919
would love to have each and every one of
you guys there. If you want to come, if

258
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:28,559
you do want to come, please send me an
email and I'll make sure you get on the

259
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:33,919
list for all the information regarding
us carbon up there or whatnot.

260
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:38,159
The Blue Santa project gifts was a
success this year. We $4,500. we were

261
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,200
able to help four families um in
conjunction with the Grace United

262
00:21:39,679 --> 00:21:48,120
Methodist Church. So, we're really proud
of that. Um it was a good time and Santa

263
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,120
even made an appearance.

264
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:55,919
And then as most of you guys were there,
I I just wanted to put on the record the

265
00:21:52,960 --> 00:22:00,080
awards um from our awards um ceremony
that we held on December 12th. Mer

266
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:06,080
accommodations, which consists of any
officer that uh received five um what we

267
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:10,799
call adamoids, but they're letters uh
positive in nature regarding their

268
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:17,280
performance either by civilians or um
other people that they work with. Um so

269
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:22,880
the following officers um received merit
accommodations. Um Sergeant Sabrowski,

270
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:28,159
Senior Corpal Bullock, Sergeant Ekki, uh
Detective Corporal Milner, Sergeant

271
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:32,159
Rogers, Corporal Justice, and Corporal
Shockley all received merit

272
00:22:29,679 --> 00:22:35,919
accommodations. Um
life-saving accommodation, uh patrolman

273
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:41,600
Gavin Mullen received a life-saving
accommodation. DUI enforcement. Uh

274
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:47,679
patrolman or patrol woman Lacricia
Bradley received that for having written

275
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:52,640
to most DUIs. Um in 2025
um sergeant accommodations were given to

276
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:57,200
patrolman Gerald Foreman and Corporal
Cody Justice. An exceptional performance

277
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:03,039
accommodation was given to Corporal
Dallas Milliner and patrolman Gavin

278
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:07,919
Mullen. This year we included a rookie
of the year. An officer has to still be

279
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:13,760
on probationary status to receive this.
And um patrolman or patrol woman again,

280
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:18,559
Lacricer Bradley received rookie of the
year, officer of the year um which is

281
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:24,720
our most prestigious annual award went
to PFC Justin who is currently working

282
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:27,720
as our sexual assault domestic violence
investigator.

283
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:35,840
That concludes my report. Unless you
guys have any questions, I'll turn it

284
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:41,120
back over to you, Mayor.
>> Chief, just one comment. Um, and kudos

285
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:45,280
to to your entire organization for the
uh the stop on 1219 where he took a

286
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,360
couple guns off the street.
>> That was uh

287
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:53,120
» heads up.
>> That's a prime example of that what

288
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:57,039
we're trying to do on 24 working. Um
especially in light of most recent

289
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:02,400
events. Um, I think it's imperative that
our police are being proactive and

290
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,799
trying to stop the bad guys from hurting
the good guys. Um, and that's a prime

291
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:11,440
example of our officers out there doing
just that. Um, we don't know what they

292
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:16,320
were intending to do, but based on the
facts of that case, which I'm sure

293
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:19,039
everybody read in the news, um, it it's
obvious that it wasn't meant for good.

294
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,159
Right.
>> Exactly.

295
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:25,240
» Thank you for that.
>> Congratulations.

296
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,240
» Thank you, Chief.

297
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:32,520
Okay, next. Uh, sewer and water. Mr.
Rich Plaque.

298
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,080
» Happy New Year, council.
>> Happy New Year.

299
00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:45,919
» Thank you very much. Uh, we are looking
to uh seek award uh for bid for the

300
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:51,360
Millsboro Force main project, the
engineer record century engineering.

301
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:56,960
Andrew Jacobitch is representing them.
Uh they have reviewed all of the bid the

302
00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:02,039
bids received. George and Lynch Inc. uh
submitted the lowest bid in the amount

303
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,039
of 5 million471,97744.

304
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:13,840
Uh their bid was reviewed and found to
be complete representative

305
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:20,720
and uh complete responsive and their
qualifications to be exemp uh excellent

306
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:27,520
for the scope of work proposed. Uh Cent
Century Engineering has recommended

307
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:34,640
award of to George and Lynch, Inc. Uh
pending concurrence for the funding

308
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:40,080
agency USDA. As previously discussed, uh
the town is moving uh to pre-purchase

309
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,080
materials in the amount of uh
1,673,133.81

310
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:55,679
to be provided to the contractor for
installation. So, um, staff recommends

311
00:25:52,400 --> 00:26:02,159
the following motion, uh, be made by
council, uh, to approve the award, uh,

312
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:05,840
for the town to approve the award of the
Millsboro Force main project to George

313
00:26:03,919 --> 00:26:08,840
and Lynch, Inc. in the amount of
5,741,97744

314
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:20,559
contingent upon the USDA
um concurrence and and Delta utility

315
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:26,000
permit approval prior to the contract
execution

316
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:33,400
uh through a change order in the amount
of uh 1,6

317
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,400
uh 673,133

318
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,480
uh dollars. 81 as a result of the
materials purchased by the town with

319
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:47,120
USDA
uh concurrence and agreement from the

320
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:50,880
contractor has been made in that regard.
>> Is there any particular reason why the

321
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:55,279
town is buying the materials versus the
contractor? Yes, we had ARPA funding set

322
00:26:53,440 --> 00:27:01,919
aside for that and due to some of the
time restraints uh with the government

323
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:10,320
shutdown and uh we had to allocate those
funds and uh make that purchase ahead of

324
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:15,360
time due to uh the next available uh
meeting for approval being now in

325
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:19,919
January. We had a December 31st deadline
and with the government shutdown that

326
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:25,039
prevented us from being able to execute
earlier. Okay. And then how does how

327
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:30,880
does this fit into the rest of our
system, the components? I mean, this is

328
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:35,600
» this will allow us to convey uh raw
waste water from our biggest pump

329
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:41,440
station 7A on route 24 to what will be
the new wastewater treatment plant. um

330
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:46,960
which will uh aid in our ability to
treat effectively the waste water from

331
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:53,919
that side of town and then also give us
the ability to reuse uh treated

332
00:27:50,720 --> 00:28:01,200
wastewater affluent for the purpose of
uh future uh irrigation and repurposing

333
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,159
through that uh regard
>> the effluent's going back to the pumping

334
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,720
station
>> so yeah so from it it would be

335
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:15,279
transmitted from the from the pumping or
from the pumping station to

336
00:28:12,539 --> 00:28:18,960
[clears throat] the roll untreated is
going from the pumping station to the

337
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:23,039
treatment plant and then the treated has
the ability to flow back in that uh

338
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:27,840
general direction for parks and other
opportunities that come up.

339
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:31,039
» Does does this contract or proposal have
a start date and a completion date for

340
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,240
this phase of it?
>> So it's all

341
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,919
it it will be starting based on a
concurrence.

342
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:44,559
USDA with the USDA. So, we're
anticipating a start date uh very

343
00:28:42,159 --> 00:28:47,520
shortly uh this month.
>> Yes.

344
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,520
» And the and the materials are already
acquired. They're somewhere just waiting

345
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:54,960
to be
>> the the purchase the the transaction has

346
00:28:52,159 --> 00:28:59,600
has started. Yes. In order to ensure
that we're able to utilize the uh

347
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,600
different subsidized funding for this
broad.

348
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:10,720
I'll make a motion to approve the
contract as presented.

349
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,640
» We have a second.
>> I'll second.

350
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,840
» All in favor say I.
>> I.

351
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,880
» I.
>> Any opposed?

352
00:29:18,399 --> 00:29:24,039
» Motion passed.
>> Thank you.

353
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:36,919
» Okay. The mayor's report.
Mr. Matt Hall. Um, first you're going to

354
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,919
talk us through the audit report.

355
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:51,360
» Actually, just step up for a moment. Um,
while we wait for uh Lindsay's on the

356
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:58,840
from PKS uh is on online um and she will
be presenting the PowerPoint and and we

357
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:58,840
can take any questions.

358
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:08,720
Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and share my
screen. Um, but like I said, um, I'm my

359
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:13,360
name is Lindsay Keane. I'm manager at
PKS. Um, and have been for the past

360
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:19,840
couple years for the town's audit. Um,
with me as well is the partner on the

361
00:30:15,679 --> 00:30:23,200
for the town's audit, Ashley Stern. Um,
but I'll be doing most of the talking.

362
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:29,240
I'll go through the the presentation.
Um, so let me just see if I can share my

363
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,240
screen real quick.

364
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,640
take a second to pop up, but

365
00:30:53,520 --> 00:31:01,039
you should be able to see it now.
>> [clears throat]

366
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:04,240
» Um so like I said I've um prepared this
PowerPoint just to kind of go over the

367
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:11,360
audit results and some of the financial
highlights um for fiscal year 2025.

368
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:17,279
Um so first I'll go through um the
reports that we issue. Uh so the uh main

369
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,760
report that we issue is our independent
audit report. Um and this is uh always

370
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:26,159
the first couple pages of the financial
statements. Um this is where we issue

371
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:30,960
our opinion on the on the um financial
statements um which is the main

372
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:35,919
objective of an audit. Um so again for
2025 we've issued what's called an

373
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:40,720
unmodified or a clean opinion. Um and
this is the highest level of assurance

374
00:31:37,679 --> 00:31:45,919
that we can give as um auditors that the
financial statements are not materially

375
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:49,720
misstated. Um so good report for the
town again this year.

376
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Uh the second report that we issue is in
accordance with government auditing

377
00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:02,559
standards.
Um it is uh a report on internal control

378
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:07,519
uh over financial reporting and on
compliance and any other matters. So a

379
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:12,000
little different than the um auditor's
report. It's not an opinion report. Um

380
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:17,279
but it's where we would identify any
instances of non-compliance um any

381
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:22,960
deficiencies or weaknesses in the town's
internal controls. Uh so we did not

382
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:27,760
identify any instances of non-compliance
um that we would be required to report

383
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:31,120
here. Uh we also uh removed a couple
deficiencies that have been reported in

384
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:36,240
the past. So there was nothing that we
reported this year. Um so there was one

385
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:42,640
related to the timeliness of bank wrecks
and um it was a one-time um issue last

386
00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:47,519
year uh that we had to report. Uh so we
had just found a couple issues um you

387
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:52,399
know we recommend um bank wrecks for all
bank accounts be reconciled within about

388
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:56,640
15 days um following the close of the
month. Um there was a couple months that

389
00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:00,240
were it wasn't a every single month last
year. Um there were a couple that were

390
00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:05,440
delayed. Um so we had to report that. Um
but in our testing this year, we did not

391
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:10,799
find any issues um with that. So we we
removed that this year. Um the second

392
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:16,640
one was related to uh the financial
statement preparation. Um this one has

393
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:21,919
been in there for a long time I think.
Um so uh just with this year um there

394
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:26,000
were some different circumstances.
Obviously a assistant finance director

395
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:31,120
was hired. Um so this provided Matt with
some additional help. Um [clears throat]

396
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:34,880
as well as I know he keeps up with the
um any new government auditing standards

397
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:40,559
um that would be required to be
implemented. Um so that helps as well.

398
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:44,720
Uh you know it's still outsourced to us
um as auditors that you know we assist

399
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:49,440
with preparing the financial statements.
Um but we think, you know, if the town

400
00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:54,320
could or had the time to prep to prepare
them that they could. So that's kind of

401
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:59,480
what that um was saying in the past. Um
but we went ahead and removed that um

402
00:33:56,159 --> 00:33:59,480
this year.

403
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:10,879
Um so here is the um statement of
revenues expenses uh for the general

404
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:16,000
fund. Um so the general fund is the
primary operating fund of the town. you

405
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:21,839
know, it reports activities um for the
general administration, you know, just

406
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:26,320
um the you know, expenses to operate the
town and run the town. Um it also

407
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:31,280
includes public safety um which includes
police and fire um parks and wreck and

408
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:35,679
then streets um or public works. Uh and
the activities are you know financed

409
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:41,040
primarily through taxes and fees, grants
and service charges. Um so for 2025

410
00:34:39,919 --> 00:34:46,720
there was an increase in the fund
balance um before the other financing

411
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:51,359
sources of 3,368,000.
Uh there were also transfers um out to

412
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:57,359
the enterprise fund since all the cash
is held in the the general fund. Um

413
00:34:55,679 --> 00:35:00,720
uh as well as there was uh lease
proceeds. So this isn't true proceeds.

414
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:04,960
Um there was a lease standard a couple
years ago that was implemented. Um so

415
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,960
any new leases that are implemented
during the year this is um you know just

416
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,800
how that has to be recorded. It's a
capital asset to the town and then the

417
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:19,760
other side is um proceeds from lease
assets.

418
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:25,160
Um so after those uh two uh sources the
uh general fund fund balance increased

419
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,160
1,552,000.

420
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:34,079
Uh so revenues overall increased 457,000
due to an increase in the property

421
00:35:31,359 --> 00:35:38,000
taxes. Um property tax revenue increased
about 337,000.

422
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:43,200
Um tax rates stay the same but the
assessable base increased. Uh there's

423
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,800
also an increase in interest income of
125,000.

424
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:53,040
Um permits and variances increased
326,000 and then all the impact fees um

425
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:57,359
which includes police, ambulance, fire,
trans transportation and storm water.

426
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:03,160
and then new the new parks and recck fee
fees. Um overall that all increased

427
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,160
498,000.

428
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:10,480
Uh expenses went down quite a bit. Um
about 2,209,000.

429
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:16,720
This was largely due to the capital
outlay. Um the police building and all

430
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:22,240
its related expenses was that project
was completed in um fiscal year 24. So

431
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,839
that capital outlay line um went down
quite a bit because of that.

432
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:37,359
Um [clears throat] so here's a breakdown
of the fund balance. Um you know the

433
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,880
fund balance is uh an accumulation of
the revenues over expenses year after

434
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:46,480
year and it's really you know a very
important measure um for the financial

435
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:52,560
health of the town. Uh it's reported in
categories based on how spendable it is.

436
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:59,359
Um so it's mostly made up of restricted
amounts um which are limited to uh how

437
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:03,200
they can be spent um from state and and
local laws. [clears throat] Uh and then

438
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,560
the unassigned portion represents
amounts available to be carried forward

439
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:11,520
for future purposes and it's really just
can be used for for general operating

440
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:15,280
expenses um and is available for
emergencies.

441
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:23,119
Uh so the governmental fund balance
ended at 16,586,000.

442
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:29,359
Um of that amount 14,176,000
is non-spendable or restricted um by

443
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:33,079
law. Uh leaving an unassigned fund
balance of 1,924,000.

444
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:42,400
[clears throat]
Uh so based on the average expenses um

445
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:49,520
our average daily expenses for 2025
they're about 20,000 or 21,000 um per

446
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:53,839
day. So that makes up about 92 um 92
days or 3 months um for the town is set

447
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:58,320
aside in this unassigned fund balance.
Um it's recommended to have at least 60

448
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:03,320
um so it's good that that the town is is
over that um recommended amount.

449
00:38:05,321 --> 00:38:10,960
» [cough]
>> Uh so [clears throat] here's a breakdown

450
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:15,760
of um where the money comes from. Uh so
total revenues in the general fund were

451
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:19,359
10,986,000.
Uh the largest of that is obviously

452
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:24,200
taxes and fees. Um they make up about
78% of the total general fund revenues.

453
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:34,640
Um
uh like I said it increased 457,000

454
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:39,200
about 4% from 2024
um due to the taxes and fees and then

455
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:43,599
there was also an increase in um impact
fees and the building fund fee. Um there

456
00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:47,320
was offset by some decreases in the
transfer tax revenue.

457
00:38:53,440 --> 00:39:04,880
Uh so here's a breakdown of um the
expenses by department.

458
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:11,359
Uh so the total expenses were 7,618,000.
Uh largest areas are um was public

459
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:16,720
safety for in 2025 that make up about uh
51% uh with the next largest being

460
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,480
general and administrative. Um so those
are are typically the two largest areas

461
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,480
or departments that we'll see for most
towns.

462
00:39:23,922 --> 00:39:25,942
» [clears throat]

463
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:34,640
» Um like I said the uh capital outlay
went down quite a bit. Um public safety

464
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:40,320
also increased 748,000 due to a
combination of um salaries, employee

465
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:44,160
benefits and the pension expense. Um in
addition the collection of the ambulance

466
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:49,680
and fire fees that revenue went up.
Therefore that money is passed through

467
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:53,119
to the um fire department. Uh so those
expenses went up as well.

468
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:05,200
Uh here's kind of a different look um
into the same the general fund expenses.

469
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:10,400
Um so fiscal 24 was a little bit skewed
with the percentages um just due to the

470
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:17,200
capital outlay costs being so high. Um
uh the largest expense in 2025 was the

471
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:21,040
operating expenses uh made up 36%. Uh
this kind of just includes everything

472
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:26,320
not in the other categories. So, repairs
and maintenance, insurance, uh dues and

473
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:32,400
donations, office expenses, utilities,
you know, everything. Um, like I said,

474
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:38,680
not in in the other categories. Uh, and
then the second largest type um is the

475
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,680
salaries at 33%.

476
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:49,920
Uh, so here's a look at the water fund.
Uh, so the water fund had a net

477
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:56,800
operating income of 286,000.
uh compared to income of 90,000 in 2024.

478
00:40:53,920 --> 00:41:03,119
Uh the charges for services increased
181,000 or 10%.

479
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:09,760
Uh expenses overall increased 11,000
uh due to an increase in uh salaries and

480
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:15,000
related costs. Um it was offset by a
decrease in the supplies and

481
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,000
professional services.

482
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:23,280
Uh so in the other uh other income um
that includes uh assessment and

483
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:30,000
annexation and connection fees that was
1,31,000.

484
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:33,119
Uh the contributed assets is um was
1,834,000

485
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:38,960
and that's the valuation of the
plantation lakes uh streets that was

486
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:44,480
donated to the town.
Uh, and then there was $841,000

487
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:51,359
transferred in from the general fund to
cover um the cash that was spent or to

488
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:58,599
cover the the expenses.
Um, so overall there was an increase in

489
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,599
the opposition uh of 6,327,000.

490
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,440
Uh, and one new item this year, it's
labeled as the special item, uh, the

491
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:10,560
capital bond proceeds that's recorded as
receivable this year. Um, because it's

492
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:14,640
related to the costs that were, um, it
was requested for reimbursement for the

493
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:21,280
Plantation Lakes cost. Um, was requested
in September 2025. Um, I um, it has been

494
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:24,880
reimbursed already in fiscal year 26.
Um, but we went ahead and recorded that

495
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:29,800
in 25 because all the costs for that
project were in 25 in prior years.

496
00:42:33,219 --> 00:42:40,079
» [clears throat]
>> Uh and now the sewer fund. So the sewer

497
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:45,839
fund had an operating loss of 1,980,000
um compared to a loss of 873,000 in the

498
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:54,480
prior year. Uh there was an increase in
charges for services of 128,000 or 4%.

499
00:42:50,480 --> 00:43:01,680
Uh expenses increased 1,163,000
or 27%. Uh this really due to uh some

500
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:06,200
increases in repairs and maintenance and
um salaries and related costs.

501
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:14,480
Uh so the assessment annexation and
connection fees were 2,232,000.

502
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:21,200
Uh the capital grants line item
includes um two Delaware Community

503
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:25,520
Reinvestment Fund grants um for 772,000
and 550,000 um since that money was

504
00:43:23,839 --> 00:43:31,119
spent that was recognized as revenues
this year. Uh it was used for the pump

505
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:36,240
station 4 project uh and the remainder
260,000

506
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:40,280
um is uh ARPA money that has been spent
um on the white farmer project.

507
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:50,000
Uh the contributed assets again is from
um Plantation Lakes and that was

508
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:54,720
4,16,000 for the sewer fund. Uh and then
transfers in from the general fund were

509
00:43:52,240 --> 00:44:01,040
1,27,000.
So that led to or ended with a increase

510
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:04,280
in the net position of 6,673,000
for 2025.

511
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Uh so here's just a breakdown of um the
sewer fund and the water funds net

512
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:17,359
position at the end of the year. Um this
one's broken down a little differently.

513
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:23,640
There's only three categories. Um the
total net position between u both funds

514
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:23,640
was 87,377,000.

515
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:32,800
Uh of that
uh 74,572,000

516
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:38,560
is invested in all the town's capital
assets. Uh and then there's 8,221,000

517
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:42,160
that is restricted for construction and
debt service. Um so that's all the

518
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:46,720
impact fees of that are collected but
have not been spent yet. Uh and that

519
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:51,960
leaves uh the unrestricted balance that
can be used for general operating

520
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,960
expenses at 4,584,000.

521
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:05,040
So that was a lot of information. Um if
there's any questions, please let me

522
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:09,040
know. Um but just you know to conclude
the town is definitely in in good

523
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:13,119
financial position. Um the books and
records are are in good order. Um you

524
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:18,000
know we didn't have any significant
difficulties and and performing the

525
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:21,599
audit this year. Um you know we just
really appreciate the staff Matt and

526
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:26,480
Andre's you know hard work and in
getting us everything that we need. Um

527
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:32,040
everyone's very cooperative, responsive,
you know. So overall another very good

528
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,040
audit for the town.

529
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,480
Obviously,

530
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:54,560
we just got this tonight. Um, would you
be available if we had questions next

531
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,040
month once we've had a chance to go
through all this?

532
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,040
» Yes, definitely.
>> Okay.

533
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:14,720
» So, Matt, maybe you can answer this.
Yeah. On the um on the net position

534
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,800
there, the total 4 point almost $4.6
million that can go back into general

535
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:22,960
operating expenses. How does that
compare to

536
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:28,440
to last year?
>> Uh which page are you on?

537
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,440
» Um page 11,

538
00:46:31,119 --> 00:46:35,280
the very last column there.
>> Last page, last column.

539
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:39,680
» I think she said there the 4 point
almost $4.6 million. It goes back into

540
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:44,319
general operating expenses or operating
funds.

541
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:47,200
» That's the unrestricted um unrestricted
total.

542
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,720
» I I I honestly do not know that number
off the top of my head. I'm not sure,

543
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:54,079
Lindsay, if you know what the restricted
one was last year. I don't have that.

544
00:46:52,319 --> 00:46:58,079
» I think it's on page eight.
>> Oh, okay. If we look in the actual audit

545
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:03,319
itself,
>> I didn't see that.

546
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:03,319
» Can try and pull that up.

547
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:16,760
So, Ron, if I'm reading this properly,
this year is four,

548
00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:16,760
let's see here, 4,583,700.

549
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:26,480
» Last year was $1,281,382.
>> Okay, gotcha. Page eight. All right, I

550
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,960
see that now. Yep.
>> Thank you.

551
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,960
We need to make a motion to accept the
auto report.

552
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:34,079
» We do. [clears throat] I'll make a
motion to accept the auto report.

553
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:38,480
Is there a second?
>> Second.

554
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,960
All in favor say I. I.
>> I.

555
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:44,720
» Any opposed.
>> Motion passed.

556
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:48,000
» And if any questions develop too, just
uh like Bob stopped by today and had

557
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,520
some questions based off of the
information I had sent out last week. Um

558
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:56,000
I'm always available to to go over
anything uh either by phone by stopping

559
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,400
in.
>> Anything.

560
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:02,319
» The the one thing I noticed, Matt, that
may make it easier to review. So, if we

561
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,160
had another column showing the
difference between the prior year and

562
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:09,680
this year
>> and a percentage,

563
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:14,800
» that would be helpful
>> because the one item that that stuck out

564
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,480
was uh I guess it's the uh maintenance
and repairs.

565
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,359
» Mhm.
>> Where it was two and a half times what

566
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:23,760
it was last year.
>> Salaries are up. I know we we hired more

567
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:28,319
positions, but as far as the work,
that's breakdown maintenance or

568
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:32,000
» Yeah. So, I I I I can speak at least to
that one real quick. a huge one in this

569
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:34,240
year in this last year for the repairs
and maintenance. I'm assuming you're

570
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,960
talking about the sew work fund.
>> Yes.

571
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:41,200
» Uh yes. So that was um there was a
planned repair and maintenance on the

572
00:49:38,559 --> 00:49:44,720
ribs out at the white farm. So that goes
into repair and maintenance because it's

573
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:50,480
not really doesn't classify as a capital
object uh capital asset, but it was uh

574
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:54,960
like don't quote me off the number off
the top of my head, but it was like

575
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:57,760
$300,000 to do the sand and all that
stuff per

576
00:49:56,559 --> 00:50:01,599
» All right. Now Zo
>> Rich Rich I see you in the back there.

577
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:05,599
» Um
right will there be a linkage between

578
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:10,640
the asset management program that you're
doing in I works and the financial

579
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:14,880
system we start to look at capital
assets replacement and that kind of

580
00:50:13,359 --> 00:50:22,079
thing. Will there be a direct linkage
between those two programs

581
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:27,040
» projection for the budgets? But in
regards to I don't know we'll have to

582
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:31,040
look into that. Yeah, there won't
necessarily be a direct linkage in terms

583
00:50:29,359 --> 00:50:33,760
of like your fixed assets and your
depreciation schedules and finance

584
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:38,400
because it's a completely different
thing than his repair and maintenance

585
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:42,960
schedule. At a certain point, we can't I
um when you repair it, it may extend its

586
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:47,680
useful life, it may not. So, it depend
mean those criterias for the financial

587
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:52,000
world are different than if we put a car
on the book for 10year value. he may be

588
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:57,280
able to keep it on the road longer, but
at the end of the 10 years, it's off our

589
00:50:53,920 --> 00:51:01,599
it's off of our books as a depreciation.
It's still there because we own the

590
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:05,119
asset, but it might not be
it doesn't necessarily his repairs to

591
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:10,640
even though he might keep it for another
five years if it's still running. So it

592
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:14,880
doesn't have a direct link from
>> that standpoint, but more from the

593
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:18,559
budget standpoint of being able to feed
the budget numbers to say, "Hey, I know

594
00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:21,599
I'm going to have to be replacing this
many trucks in these years." So yeah,

595
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:25,040
it's not going to be like they're not
directly tied, but they are going to be

596
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:28,319
tied in.
>> He's going to be able to give me much

597
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,400
more accurate numbers. Same with water.
They're going to be give more accurate

598
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:35,680
numbers on, hey, I know I
>> I know I'm going to have to replace one

599
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:38,559
car this year, two cars next year, one
the following. Same with pumps and stuff

600
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:43,920
like that. They're going to be able to
start producing those and we'll be able

601
00:51:40,319 --> 00:51:46,559
to project out further uh and better for
the budgeting process.

602
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:50,079
» Yeah. Oh, exactly. Exactly. He's see
he's seeing an asset that's that's in

603
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,839
here. It's the end of its useful life.
Correct.

604
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,359
» You know, have to budget for it. So,
it's going to help in the budget

605
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:58,920
process.
>> Correct.

606
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,920
» Yeah. Very good. Thank you.

607
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,960
Okay, Matt. Supplemental tax billing.

608
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:21,520
All right. This is the uh third quarter
supplemental tax assessment. This is for

609
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:27,920
um
building permits that were finaled or

610
00:52:23,839 --> 00:52:33,680
coed between uh October and December of
2025. And this would be build at a rate

611
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:40,400
of 50% since we're at 50% of the year
when this is going out. And um as in

612
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:45,440
previous uh motions by council, uh this
would be to bill for only assessments

613
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:50,800
over $5 for the supplemental tax bill
itself. Uh so that would come out to

614
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:53,800
we'd be sending out a total billing for
$26,451.36.

615
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:07,280
So I would just need a motion to do the
supplemental billing for 50%.

616
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:09,359
» All moved.
>> We have a second.

617
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:11,200
» Second.
>> All in favor say I.

618
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,920
» I.
>> I.

619
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:18,760
» Any opposed?
>> Motion pass. Thank you.

620
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,760
» Right. Thank you.

621
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:28,800
» Okay.
Conditional use application submitted by

622
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:33,920
Tim NY for the property located at 102
East Dupont Boulevard, Millsboro,

623
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:38,920
Delaware 1 19968, formerly known as tax
map and parcel number 133-17.17-19.00

624
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,240
Mr. Nay here.

625
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:53,119
» It's incorrect.
>> Incorrect. Okay. should be 1 19966

626
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:56,400
for
>> All right. The zip code on that 1 19966

627
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,640
not
>> 1 19968.

628
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,440
» Anyone here to speak to that?

629
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:25,359
extension.
>> They informed the building department

630
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:29,440
that they wanted to be on the agenda at
this moment.

631
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:32,240
» Okay.
>> Do they have a test?

632
00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:34,319
» The details are in the application that
Mary, do they necessarily have to be

633
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:36,400
here to present?
>> Yeah,

634
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:43,040
» that is up to the town council to the
chair. That's why I pass. See,

635
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:47,440
» I'll make a motion to approve it.
>> Second.

636
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:53,559
All in favor say I. I. I.
>> Any opposed?

637
00:54:49,359 --> 00:54:53,559
Motion passed. Thank you.

638
00:54:54,559 --> 00:54:57,720
This all

639
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:03,200
» okay.
Lucky resoning request.

640
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:07,000
» It's kind of a
>> from MR to HC.

641
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:16,000
» Approval, disapproval, or seek
additional information. Reopen record

642
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:16,000
concerning resoning request.

643
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:20,720
The applicant has has come to the
podium. I don't know that you

644
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:24,119
necessarily need her for anything right
now though, right?

645
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:36,800
» So, this is back on your agenda because
no decision was made um at the

646
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:42,079
conclusion of the public hearing um when
you closed the public hearing and then

647
00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:45,440
tabled it. So now it's back and the
different options are listed on the

648
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,880
agenda of what you might do because
there no was no clear direction at the

649
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:55,440
end.
>> Has there been a change in the previous

650
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:59,359
application or just
>> No, it's the same application and it's

651
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:03,200
based on the same information that was
presented to you at the public hearing

652
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:07,839
that was held a couple months ago, but
no decision was made. You deferred

653
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:12,400
making a decision until a later date. So
here we are again. Um,

654
00:56:10,799 --> 00:56:16,960
now one of the things you'll see on your
agenda is that it talks about a future

655
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:21,280
land use map amendment. Right now,
legally speaking, you could not approve

656
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:26,160
the resoning because the reasoning
wouldn't align with your future land use

657
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:30,960
» map in your comprehensive plan and it's
required to by law. So when that

658
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:36,240
happens, and it has happened before in
other situations,

659
00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:41,440
um you need to pursue a future land use
map amendment with the OSPC.

660
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:46,319
Um and that process has to play out
before you can make a final 100%

661
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:52,640
decision to reszone if that's what you
decide you wanted to pursue. Um, if

662
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:56,000
based on the information you received,
you're not inclined to approve the

663
00:56:54,799 --> 00:57:00,640
resoning, then you don't need to worry
about the future land use map amendment.

664
00:56:58,319 --> 00:57:04,799
Um, it's only if you're going to you you
want to move forward with saying yes to

665
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:09,440
the resoning, um, that you would need to
do that before

666
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:12,440
there you could 100% make that resoning
legal.

667
00:57:29,839 --> 00:57:33,640
What's your pleasure? Council,

668
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:40,079
» unfortunately, I make a motion. I I I
feel you exactly what you're where

669
00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:44,400
you're coming from and your rationale
and your reasoning, but based on the

670
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:48,880
testimony we had previously on this, um
I don't think anything has changed with

671
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:54,440
that. So, I would uh make a motion to
decline um change in zoning.

672
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:58,680
» Is there a second?

673
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:08,520
» Second.
>> All in favor say I.

674
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,520
» I. I. Any oppose?

675
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,920
Sorry, motion not approved.

676
00:58:19,359 --> 00:58:27,880
Gadence Academy preliminary site plan
for property located at tax map at

677
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:27,880
parcel 133-17.09-12.01.

678
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,480
Mr. Christenberry,

679
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:45,839
» he said motion motion.
Should that be correct

680
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:53,000
in the minutes that
the double negative?

681
00:58:47,119 --> 00:58:53,000
» Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Was that true?

682
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:58,839
This starts on a

683
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:09,079
after the town lakes, right?

684
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,799
» This is after town.
>> Yeah, there's leg on it, but or no page

685
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:22,599
numbers.
The scissor went down.

686
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,640
This one

687
00:59:53,440 --> 01:00:02,000
Good evening, council. I'm Kristen Barry
with Axium Engineering in Georgetown,

688
00:59:57,359 --> 01:00:07,440
Delaware. Uh, Cadence Academy has
previously been known as the Giggle Bugs

689
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:12,640
Daycare. The owner wishes to create a
significant expansion because the need

690
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:19,680
the demand for daycare in this area is
significantly higher than the supply and

691
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:25,599
he has enough land to make a pretty
substantial addition to the project. Uh

692
01:00:23,839 --> 01:00:29,040
this first sheet on the site plan is our
demolition plan kind of shows what's

693
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:34,160
going to be removed. You scroll down
just a little bit. There you go. So the

694
01:00:31,359 --> 01:00:40,799
uh the parking lot area here will be
removed and then scroll down to page two

695
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:45,599
and that's where the addition would come
in and the parking lot will be expanded

696
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:51,520
over this way here.
We have been working with your staff and

697
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:56,240
your consultants to bring this plan to
you today. They wanted us to get a delta

698
01:00:53,680 --> 01:01:01,520
approval before we came before you. That
was received last month. They did

699
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:06,160
determine that the existing entrance is
sufficient for the addition that's that

700
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:10,480
is proposed. So no significant changes
in the entrance are being proposed. The

701
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:16,400
fire marshall has approved the fire lane
layout. Uh conservation district I met

702
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:21,839
with them. They agreed that the prior
phase has 36 inch diameter pipes under

703
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:26,720
the parking lot that absorb all the
runoff from the first phase. It appears

704
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:30,000
though they were sized uh contemplating
this addition. They were they were

705
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:35,200
designed by another engineer about 10
years ago. But based on our preliminary

706
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:42,079
analysis, uh the conservation district
did agree that the pipes are adequately

707
01:01:38,319 --> 01:01:46,079
sized. So having said all that,
I I think we we're we're on the verge of

708
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:50,319
being ready for final site plan
approval. So, if there's any questions

709
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:54,000
that council has, I'd love to go ahead
and discuss them tonight if we can, just

710
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:57,200
to see if we can move this project
forward as quickly as possible, but

711
01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:02,960
there's a there's a slight chance we
could have this open in time for the uh

712
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:08,400
fall 2026 school year. Uh, but only if
we can move it along uh relatively

713
01:02:05,839 --> 01:02:12,160
quickly. Uh, the outstanding items that
I'm aware of is getting a formal

714
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:15,760
approval from the conservation district.
The other formal approvals from the

715
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:19,760
state agencies have been issued. uh the
town taking our utility plan that was

716
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:23,599
put together and submitting it to Dell
DOT to get permission to bring a water

717
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:28,400
line under State Street which is
maintained by Dell DOT. So that would

718
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:34,640
need to be reviewed by your engineer and
approved for submitt to to Delta. Um and

719
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:39,760
then we owe you all a landscaping plan
and a lighting plan. I'm not aware of

720
01:02:36,799 --> 01:02:44,319
anything else that's outstanding to move
this toward final fugal unless uh you

721
01:02:42,319 --> 01:02:47,619
all feel there's something that wasn't
addressed in the preliminary that you

722
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:50,960
need to know more about and if you
[clears throat] do have anything in mind

723
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:55,599
on that I'd love to know tonight so we
can come back very soon and wrap this

724
01:02:53,440 --> 01:03:00,240
up. Uh something that the county has
done and I don't know Miss Shrider Fox

725
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,760
if town's able to do it. The county will
often take a preliminary approval and

726
01:03:02,079 --> 01:03:08,000
empower the staff to issue final
approval if it's deemed that the project

727
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:12,720
is close enough to final. But I don't
know if that Millsbro is in a position

728
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:16,160
to do that or not. If they are, I'd ask
that you'd entertain a motion allowing

729
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:19,119
the staff to issue a final approval if
you find that everything we have

730
01:03:17,839 --> 01:03:22,400
presented is satisfactory.
>> That has not been the practice of the

731
01:03:20,799 --> 01:03:25,400
town's bills for in the past.
>> Okay.

732
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:32,319
Are there any other questions? Uh, our
packet does include the state agency

733
01:03:30,319 --> 01:03:35,440
approvals. I think the fire marshall I
sent in after the fact. I didn't see it

734
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:39,359
in there, but I do have a copy if you
all would like to see approval from the

735
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:43,680
fire marshall, but the Delot approvals
in there. The meeting minutes from

736
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:48,000
conservation district are in there. The
utility permit that's been prepped for

737
01:03:45,839 --> 01:03:53,280
your review before submitted to Delot is
in the package that you have.

738
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:59,200
We do have to do a utility permit
because the building expansion, it

739
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:03,280
requires not only that the new building
be sprinklered, but that the existing

740
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:08,559
building be sprinkler because the state
has adopted a requirement that any

741
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:14,720
commercial daycare does have sprinkling
uh for fire safety. And so we're going

742
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:18,720
to bring a 6-in line under State Street
to connect sprinkling for both the

743
01:04:16,799 --> 01:04:21,720
proposed expansion and the existing
facility.

744
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,760
There's currently a for sale sign out
there now, right? But there's

745
01:04:26,079 --> 01:04:32,480
» I think that's for the vacant parcel to
our south.

746
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:36,240
» Uh the owner is here. If you'd like him
to testify that he's not trying to sell

747
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:41,520
the property, I'd be happy to invite him
up.

748
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:44,640
» I just No, that's correct. And then just
also add in the past that it was a

749
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:49,839
preliminary approval by
>> give you a name

750
01:04:47,359 --> 01:04:55,359
» Quinn Johnson uh property owner not the
managing partner or of Cadence Academy

751
01:04:52,480 --> 01:05:00,160
but uh this also for history sakes was
actually precoid a preliminary plan for

752
01:04:57,839 --> 01:05:04,319
a separate building had come through
council was approved but then of course

753
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:08,559
was put on uh the brakes because of
COVID and all the situations like that

754
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:13,920
and instead of coming to the town again
working with uh Jamie and the others uh

755
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:18,319
staff, it was deemed that an addition
would be a better fit uh for everything

756
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:22,079
uh versus a whole separate building. And
so that's why we kind of changed

757
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:26,319
direction if anybody was following it
initially, why it's not a separate

758
01:05:24,319 --> 01:05:32,079
building and made it into an addition to
accommodate no additional needs for uh

759
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:35,079
entrance, fire safety, any of those
things.

760
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:47,280
I look in the packet I see that both
ACOM and uh Reddantis has recommended

761
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:49,039
approval for uh
>> correct for the revised plan we

762
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:53,160
submitted
>> preliminary site plan.

763
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,160
» Yeah.

764
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:07,839
We have a motion for preliminary uh plan
approval.

765
01:06:05,839 --> 01:06:10,799
» So moved. Have a second.
>> Second.

766
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:12,079
» Second. All in favor say I.
>> I.

767
01:06:11,359 --> 01:06:15,280
» I.
>> None opposed.

768
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:18,440
» Thank you. Approve.
>> Thank you.

769
01:06:31,039 --> 01:06:35,760
Okay, next one is uh annexation
committee appointment for the

770
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:42,920
application submitted by Adrien
Mobileilia with property located tax map

771
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,920
and parcel number 233-5.00-11.00

772
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:54,000
on Handy Road, Millsboro 1 1996.
And we're looking for a motion to

773
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,359
appoint a three-member annexation
committee to review and make a

774
01:06:55,839 --> 01:07:01,119
recommendation regarding the annexation
request.

775
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:05,119
» I'll make a motion.
>> Second.

776
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:09,760
» Okay. All in favor?
>> I I.

777
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:14,640
» Any opposed?
Okay. That part is approved. Now we're

778
01:07:12,319 --> 01:07:17,880
looking for nominations for members of
that committee.

779
01:07:33,039 --> 01:07:39,839
I'll nominate Mary [laughter]
and myself.

780
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:43,200
Oh, yourself. It's too
>> I am on every committee.

781
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,559
» You raised your hand. I wanted to pick.
You stuck your hand.

782
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:50,926
» I see him behind me. I not think
Kimberly.

783
01:07:48,906 --> 01:07:50,926
[laughter]

784
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:58,880
» Okay, I'll modify my nomination for
Kimberly, Ron O'Neil, and myself.

785
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:03,079
» Did I nominate myself?
>> I'll second all these nominations.

786
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,160
» The second

787
01:08:08,799 --> 01:08:14,400
» I was just going to say that
>> time.

788
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:16,640
» All right. All all in favor say I to the
nominations.

789
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:18,400
» I
none

790
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:25,440
» opposed.
Thank you. Motion passed.

791
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:30,239
» Okay. Next. Town lakes resident
residential plan community amended

792
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:35,880
preliminary uh subdivision.
Um Mr. Davidson and Mr. Hut.

793
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:52,159
Good evening. I think most of you know
me by now, but for the record, my name

794
01:08:49,759 --> 01:08:56,319
is David Hut, a local attorney in
Georgetown with the law firm of Morris

795
01:08:54,319 --> 01:09:01,199
James.
This evening, I am representing a Tapco

796
01:08:58,239 --> 01:09:06,159
Townlakes LLC, which is the new owner of
the property outlined in yellow on the

797
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:11,679
screens around the room. And of course
that is the location where a Tapco uh

798
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:15,040
Town Lakes community will be located in
the future. Before going further, you

799
01:09:13,839 --> 01:09:18,560
can see on the left, you probably can't
read it from where you are. There is a a

800
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:22,319
project team that's listed and that's
listed. I know that town council is

801
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:26,560
familiar with the Town Lakes project,
but there are some new faces here. Uh so

802
01:09:24,799 --> 01:09:32,400
I thought we take the opportunity this
evening to introduce them with Papco

803
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:36,640
and the standing in the back is Russ
Powell, the chief operating officer.

804
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:40,880
Sitting down about midway back is Jeff
Cox, another individual with Patapco.

805
01:09:39,199 --> 01:09:44,960
And then some familiar faces to you be
Mark Davis and of course with Penoni

806
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:50,239
which remains the project engineers and
sitting in the back another professional

807
01:09:47,679 --> 01:09:55,360
engineer with Penoni Curtis Eden who are
part of the team.

808
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:58,640
I know that the the council is familiar
with the town lakes project, but I

809
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:03,600
thought it might be helpful this evening
as I introduce some new faces just to

810
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:10,159
describe some of the key milestones that
have happened along the way. First, uh

811
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:16,480
in February of 2023,
73 acres was annexed into the town's

812
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:20,719
municipal limits. And for those of you
who uh weren't here at that time in 2023

813
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:25,040
and didn't participate in that vote,
that 73 acres was combined with an

814
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:30,239
existing 58 acres that was already
within the municipal limits, creating a

815
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:37,520
131 acre parcel that you saw outlined in
yellow. In the original 58 acres was

816
01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:41,760
annexed into the town uh in 2007, sort
of as the part of that peninsula

817
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:47,600
crossing uh whole conglomerate of of
land that existed there at the time.

818
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:52,000
this 73 acres was added. Both the 58 and
73 acres had a zoning classification of

819
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:56,960
MR, the town's medium density
residential zoning classification. As

820
01:10:54,800 --> 01:11:01,920
you can see, in March, a month later, uh
the town did vote to modify the zoning

821
01:10:59,679 --> 01:11:07,280
classification slightly for the combined
131 acres. And what that was, there was

822
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:12,239
an RPC overlay over top of the MR
district. So that 131 acres still has

823
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:16,719
the MR underlining zoning classification
but now has an RPC overlay on top of it.

824
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:24,719
You can see there was a board of
adjustment approval in October of 2003.

825
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:30,080
Thereafter uh in November of 2023 there
was preliminary RPC site plan approvals

826
01:11:27,679 --> 01:11:36,159
and you'll see that plan in a moment.
And then just this past year in in March

827
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:40,080
of 2025, um Town Lakes community
received preliminary subdivision plan

828
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:45,120
approval. And you can see there was some
waiverss related to some street

829
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:50,320
requirements at that time. And then to
bring it full circle to Tapco Town Lakes

830
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:58,800
LLC, uh it closed on the property in
June of this past year. [clears throat]

831
01:11:53,920 --> 01:12:04,320
As you likely saw from the
from the uh initial screen when the

832
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:09,280
property was outlined in yellow, many of
you will recognize the location. I know

833
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:13,520
you're familiar with it. This 131 acres
is located on the west side of Handy

834
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:17,520
Road. Handy Road being the diagonal road
at the upper right hand corner of the

835
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:22,640
images on the screen. And the
intersection that you can see just going

836
01:12:19,199 --> 01:12:27,280
off the paper uh is uh Town Center
Boulevard. That of course runs from

837
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:32,159
Handy Road to Route 113.
This is also across the street from

838
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:36,080
Handy Road. If you were to go on to Town
Center Boulevard on your right, would of

839
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:42,560
course be uh where the new Weiss
Supermarket is under construction.

840
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:46,560
The image that's shown on the screen is
that preliminary site plan and

841
01:12:44,719 --> 01:12:53,040
preliminary subdivision plan that
received approval in March of 2025.

842
01:12:50,880 --> 01:13:00,000
And you can see on that that there's a
total of 450 mixed uh use units. Um 330

843
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:04,320
of those were single family detached
sort of the bottom two/irds of the

844
01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:09,679
screen where the label is located. And
then in the upper right hand corner of

845
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:14,159
the community, 120 apartments were
approved. Those 120 apartments, as you

846
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:19,520
can see, are in five buildings. One
parallel to Handy Road and then four

847
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:23,440
parallel to the road as you enter the
property.

848
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:26,239
Some of you may recall that there were
representatives from the Tapco. I know

849
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:29,679
Mr. Powell was one of them who's
standing in the back this evening. There

850
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:33,840
were representatives from the TAPCO here
during the town process of approving uh

851
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:37,600
the preliminary subdivision plan and
they were here as part of the due

852
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:41,760
diligence uh to determine basically if
they wanted to purchase the project.

853
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:47,760
During those meetings, one thing that
town council made clear u was that one

854
01:13:45,679 --> 01:13:53,280
of the least favorite parts of the town
lakes community uh was the 120

855
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:57,360
apartments uh in uh the upper right hand
corner that you see on the screen. So

856
01:13:54,960 --> 01:14:02,159
then you can see uh the detail on the
right hand side of the screen.

857
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:06,400
Tapco listened carefully during those
meetings uh has worked with the town

858
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:10,960
staff and the town consultants uh since
then uh and specifically asked the

859
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:16,239
penoni team to remove the proposed
apartments uh and to put town homes uh

860
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:21,040
in their place.
The this evening's application is in

861
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:26,080
front of the town council basically
because ATAPCO wants the town council to

862
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:31,440
confirm that it has accomplished what
the council wanted with respect to

863
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:38,719
substituting the town home housing for
the apartment townhouse apartment

864
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:42,560
concept that the town uh saw before.
With respect to the site plan, you can

865
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:47,199
see that the site plan looks largely the
same. You can see the 330 single family

866
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:53,199
detached homes again at the bottom two/3
and then you can see the excerpt showing

867
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:58,719
the upper right hand portion there. Uh
and the resulting work that Penoni did

868
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:04,159
to develop the town home section
resulted in 415

869
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:09,440
total units. That's a reduction of 35
total units from the 450 that were com

870
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:15,440
the combined apartments and single
family homes. So now instead of 450

871
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:19,440
units, there'd be a total of 415 units.
As you can see that that's because the

872
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:26,640
number of multif family units or the
town home units is 85, which of course

873
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:31,199
is 35 than the 120 apartments. In the
image on the screen, rather than there

874
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:36,800
being five uh buildings, there are 16
buildings that would comprise uh those

875
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:41,199
85 town homes, ranging with a number of
units in them from four units uh to

876
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:45,120
seven units in each of the various
buildings.

877
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:50,080
Like the eye doctor always says, you
better one or better two. On the left

878
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:54,000
hand side of the screen, you can see the
old version of the site plan. on the on

879
01:15:52,560 --> 01:16:00,000
the right hand side you can see the
proposed uh site plan for this evening.

880
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:04,800
Again they look very similar um but as
you can see instead of five apartment

881
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:11,040
buildings you can see the 16 uh town
home groups of town homes that are shown

882
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:13,840
there for the total of 85 units. Some of
the other features that I wanted to

883
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:18,080
point out is that as you come in the
community, uh the images, the town homes

884
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:23,199
that you see that are parallel to
Atlantic Flyway, the entrance, those

885
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:27,840
would actually have fronts onto Atlantic
Flyway. So, what you're seeing there are

886
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:31,840
rear loading uh town homes for the ones
that are parallel to Atlantic Flyway,

887
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:36,000
the same as the ones that are directly
across from them on the screen. uh on

888
01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:39,760
the ones on the outer perimeter of the
town home area are front loading. So

889
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:44,719
there'll be both front loading and rear
loading uh town homes uh that are

890
01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:49,520
proposed to be substituted for the
apartments.

891
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:55,280
One of the benefits of uh reducing the
number of units by 35 in the apartment

892
01:16:52,560 --> 01:17:00,719
section is that it resulted in a
reduction of 33% of the traffic on a

893
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:06,960
daily basis uh from the multifamily
section of the community. Uh and on a

894
01:17:02,719 --> 01:17:12,640
Saturday it resulted in a 28 28%
reduction uh in the vehicles uh per day

895
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:16,239
in each of those sections.
In addition, as you saw in the

896
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:21,840
rendering, and this is a little bit more
of a closeup of that, uh, the amenity

897
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:25,760
area was also reoriented. Uh if we were
to go back two slides, you would see

898
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:29,280
that the clubhouse amenity was on the
other side where the tot is and those

899
01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:33,760
things were switched and that was
because there was parking that where the

900
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:37,760
nearest town home building is. But with
the rearrangement and substitution of

901
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:43,360
the town homes for the apartments, it
was thought that it'd be better to

902
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:46,239
reorient the amenity center so that the
building would now be on the the

903
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:50,159
southern side of it rather than the
northern side. The amenity package has

904
01:17:48,159 --> 01:17:56,080
remained the same. There's no difference
in it other than sort of mirroring or

905
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:59,560
flipping uh the various features of that
amenity area.

906
01:18:02,719 --> 01:18:08,159
As I mentioned a few minutes ago,
[clears throat] town council this

907
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:12,080
evening is being asked by a tapco uh to
approve the revised preliminary site

908
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:17,760
plan and corresponding revised
preliminary subdivision plan that

909
01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:22,640
substitutes the 85 town homes for the
120 apartments.

910
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:28,320
In section 210-20, the Millsboro Code
describes the RPC district as an overlay

911
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:31,040
zone uh that is superimposed over top of
the underlying zoning for that

912
01:18:30,159 --> 01:18:35,679
[clears throat] piece of property, which
in this case, as was mentioned, is the

913
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:39,679
MR district. The purpose of an RPC is to
encourage large-scale developments as a

914
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:43,600
means of creating a superior living
environment through unified developments

915
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:47,440
and to provide for the application of
design ingenuity while protecting

916
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:52,400
existing and future developments and
achieving the goals of the comprehensive

917
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:58,800
plan. I know that uh your consultants
for and AECOM have reviewed this

918
01:18:55,679 --> 01:19:02,960
application uh and you have in front of
you what I think the town typically

919
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:07,280
refers to it as clean review letters uh
with the exception of of one item and

920
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:11,679
it's not that it's not a clean item,
it's just an item that gets put to the

921
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:18,239
town council for it to make a decision
on and that relates to the sideyard

922
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:25,040
setback or and separation distance for
the distances between uh the town homes.

923
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:29,520
In section 210-20 subsection C, it talks
about the fact that an RPC is a

924
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:34,880
superimposed district over top of the
underlying zoning classification. And it

925
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:39,440
goes on to state housing types, minimum
lot requirements, maximum height,

926
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:43,280
minimum yard requirements, and accessory
uses, and accessory signs shall be

927
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:47,040
determined by the requirements and
procedures set forth in this section,

928
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:51,280
referring to the RPC section of the
code, uh, which shall prevail over

929
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:56,239
conflicting requirements of these
regulations or ordinances governing the

930
01:19:53,679 --> 01:20:02,159
subdivision of lands. This means that
the town council is authorized to create

931
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:08,400
a zoning code essentially for each RPC
application uh that comes in front of it

932
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:13,760
with respect to things like pipe setback
accessory uses that may be permitted

933
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:18,960
within the boundaries of uh that RPC
district. Essentially, I often describe

934
01:20:16,239 --> 01:20:23,920
the RPCs as having an individual zoning
code unique to just that area uh that's

935
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:29,520
described with a meets and bounds
description.

936
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:34,560
uh AECOM's review letter uh explained
that if this were not in an RPC uh that

937
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:39,120
there would be a required set sideyard
set act of 20 ft for each of the town

938
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:43,520
home buildings which creates a 40 foot
separation distance uh between each of

939
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:48,320
the buildings. What is proposed on the
site plan you see on the right hand side

940
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:54,320
of the screen right now uh is a 10 yard
10 foot rather sideyard setback for a

941
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:58,560
separation distance of 20 ft between uh
the town home buildings that exist on

942
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:05,600
the site.
the standard that the co RPC code sets

943
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:09,520
forth for when town council considers um
items like this, the bulgaria

944
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:15,120
requirements and establishes that zoning
for the specific RPC uh is and this is

945
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:20,560
an exact quote from the section H is
that the town council shall ensure an

946
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:24,880
appropriate relationship between those
things. As I talked about at the

947
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:30,320
beginning for an RPC, the purpose of an
RPC is to allow for design ingenuity and

948
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:35,800
unified developments. When you look at
the uh totality of the community,

949
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:45,360
you can see on the left hand side of the
screen that predominantly this is a

950
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:50,560
single family detached uh community. In
fact, it's 79 and a half almost 80% of

951
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:55,840
the units in this community are single
family detached. And it was thought by a

952
01:21:53,440 --> 01:22:01,760
tap code that it was would create a
better unified development uh and a

953
01:21:58,159 --> 01:22:07,360
better product for the town uh and for
uh the future town lakes residents of

954
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:11,280
that community as well as the town uh
for there to be smaller footprinted

955
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:17,760
buildings. the town homes that are
proposed uh the 85 town homes versus the

956
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:21,920
five uh buildings with 24 units each
with the apartments. It was felt like

957
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:26,880
that was more in keeping the town homes
would be uh two-story town homes as you

958
01:22:24,719 --> 01:22:31,440
enter in off the community. So you'd
have those 85 town homes on the right as

959
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:37,199
you come in and then you would go back
in drive back into uh the single family

960
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:42,480
detached section of the community. While
I'm not a land use planner, that's Mr.

961
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:47,600
Davidson's job. Um, it creates a it's a
better civic design and land use design

962
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:53,360
uh with um and landscape architecture.
It creates a smaller feel for the

963
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:59,360
community uh as one would enter it.
The other thing to note is that this is

964
01:22:56,400 --> 01:23:03,840
not an attempt to obtain more units.
This is not an attempt to somehow for

965
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:08,480
this this part of the code. the
applicant could comply with those

966
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:13,199
sideyard setback requirements uh and
still keep the 85 units. What they would

967
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:18,159
do is rather than having the 16
buildings with varying groups from four

968
01:23:15,679 --> 01:23:22,560
to seven units in each, they would just
have eight buildings uh and they would

969
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:25,760
all have basically 12 units and with one
of the buildings being slightly

970
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:31,679
differentized. So those will be much
larger buildings similar in scale to the

971
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:38,239
apartments uh that uh are being proposed
to be removed uh from the community. In

972
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:43,520
addition uh the office of state marshall
routinely approves uh this separation

973
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:47,600
distance uh between uh town home
structure and multif family structures

974
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:53,040
uh of this nature. That was in the
Penoni response letter uh to the AECOM

975
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:57,920
uh comments.
As was as was mentioned, that is the one

976
01:23:55,600 --> 01:24:04,159
item that AECOM noted that is up for the
town uh to decide as I indicated that is

977
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:08,880
a part of an RPC uh is to establish
those types of bulk area requirements.

978
01:24:07,199 --> 01:24:14,800
And essentially this evening before
TAPCO invests a significant amount of

979
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:19,360
additional money um in fully engineering
the plans that you see on the screen

980
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:23,920
substituting the town homes for the
apartments. It wanted to get this

981
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:29,360
council's approval for two things.
First, u the ability to substitute the

982
01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:34,639
85 town homes for the 120 apartments on
the RPC site plan and preliminary

983
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:40,880
subdivision plan. And then secondly, uh
to for there to be a 10-yard uh side 10-

984
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:46,000
foot sideyard setback uh between the
town home buildings, creating a 20 foot

985
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:51,120
separation distance for the town homes
in this uh RPC district.

986
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:54,560
That is uh the presentation this
evening. Certainly, if you have any

987
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:59,760
questions, I'm happy to to answer them
as as is Mr. Davidson and the uh

988
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:06,320
representatives from Attachment.
>> I I have about three or four questions.

989
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:11,199
Starting with the apartments, were they
uh proposed to be designed to be

990
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:14,560
two-bedroom apartments, three-bedroom?
Did you get into that level of detail

991
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:17,679
yet? Versus the town houses. Are there
three bedroomedroom?

992
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,920
» As Mr. Davidson, if there was a number
of apartments.

993
01:25:18,159 --> 01:25:24,239
» So, I'm just trying I'm just trying to
get a feel for the number of occupants

994
01:25:22,239 --> 01:25:28,960
in in each scenario.
>> So, the the apartments were designed to

995
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:33,120
be two and threebedroom apartment uh
buildings and then the town houses are

996
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:37,120
three and four bedroom. Okay. So, the
one thing you haven't mentioned in the

997
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:41,120
presentation is parking. So, we talked
about reduction in number of units and

998
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:46,239
all, but what what what about regard to
parking? The plan that you see on the

999
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:51,440
screen complies with the town's parking
requirements. And as you know, the town

1000
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:56,480
requires two units per unit. Two parking
spaces per unit rather. And then when

1001
01:25:54,159 --> 01:26:00,080
you there's sort of a multiplier that's
in your parking code. Uh, and when you

1002
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:04,719
have a certain number of units, you have
to add more parking. So, what what that

1003
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:08,719
translates to for the Town Lakes
community is that there has to be three

1004
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:12,560
parking spaces for every unit, whether
it's single family, detached, or the

1005
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:18,560
town homes. And on the screen, that is
representative of that. And as you may

1006
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:23,199
recall from the uh the presentation and
when the preliminary subdivision plan

1007
01:26:21,679 --> 01:26:27,760
was approved, I'm going to walk away
from the microphone. There were car

1008
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:32,880
parks that are throughout the single
family section in various sections and

1009
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:37,440
you can see that same concept is carried
through in the town home section. And so

1010
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:42,239
AECOM did have a comment about the
parking and it was confirmed then that

1011
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:45,679
the adequate amount of parking three
parking places for each unit is provided

1012
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:51,840
throughout the whole community town
homes and the single pen.

1013
01:26:48,639 --> 01:26:56,000
» Two in each unit and one in overflow. Is
that how it just is being split up

1014
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:58,719
» more or less? I don't know that it's
always exactly that, but yes, that's the

1015
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:02,320
concept.
>> So, I did I hear you correctly? The

1016
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:05,600
gentle I apologize for not knowing the
name. The gentleman just said that the

1017
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:11,120
apartments went from two to three
bedrooms, but the town homes are now

1018
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:14,239
going to increase to three and four
bedrooms. Did I hear it correctly?

1019
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:17,760
» That's what Mr. Davidson said.
>> Yeah. So, you are increasing the living

1020
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:22,159
in each the
>> number of bedrooms.

1021
01:27:18,639 --> 01:27:25,920
» Yeah. to
you're not increasing the parking. So if

1022
01:27:24,719 --> 01:27:30,239
you're increasing the number of
bedrooms, I'm thinking you're going to

1023
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:32,000
be increasing the number of occupancies.
Correct.

1024
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:35,280
» Parking the parking would have been at a
scale. So the parking when there was

1025
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:39,120
there when when there was 120
apartments, there still would have been

1026
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:42,400
three parking places for it was it's the
same ratio.

1027
01:27:40,159 --> 01:27:46,560
» It's the average
>> and and the bigger question is what

1028
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:50,239
happens at the intersection of Handy
Road? Is there any plan to have a

1029
01:27:48,719 --> 01:27:55,440
traffic signal because you have the
Weiss that's opening this summer and you

1030
01:27:53,199 --> 01:28:02,000
have this 415
units coming in as well. So, is that in

1031
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:06,400
anyone's plan at this point?
>> Mr. uh Davidson uh with Penoni. They've

1032
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:11,040
had I know they've had meetings on the
traffic so I'll let him address that

1033
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:16,320
specific. So, back when back when the
peninsula crossing was design uh when it

1034
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:21,199
was um designed and approved for the
entrance intersection, as you know, the

1035
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:24,719
town lakes project already has the
entrance built to the property. The

1036
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:29,520
right turn lanes, the left turn lanes
have been built, but when that

1037
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:33,600
intersection was designed and
constructed, it was constructed for a

1038
01:28:31,679 --> 01:28:38,960
future traffic signal to be determined
by Delta. That's a Delta's discretion.

1039
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:42,960
But all the conduits, all the entire
intersection there at Town Center

1040
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:48,159
Boulevard, Handy Road, and then now the
Atlantic Flyway that has been designed

1041
01:28:45,679 --> 01:28:53,760
and constructed to for future traffic
signal at whatever time Delot deems

1042
01:28:51,679 --> 01:28:57,600
necessary.
>> When when's the last time that anyone

1043
01:28:55,520 --> 01:29:01,760
looked at the volume on on Handy Road
and that intersection? It's quite a few

1044
01:28:59,679 --> 01:29:06,560
years now. Well, we we're in the process
of counting traffic currently with the

1045
01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:12,480
we have counts set up for the next in
the next month or so to go out there and

1046
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:16,800
count traffic. Um, as as we discussed
back at the preliminary subdivision

1047
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:20,480
hearing that we were going to look at
the traffic scenario and what the

1048
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:24,960
existing traffic is currently happening
out there at community at that

1049
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:31,040
intersection and within the shopping
center as well as what we're proposing

1050
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:36,320
for this uh for this development.
And one thing to note u to the mayor is

1051
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:39,440
that those those types of details are
what typically is accomplished after you

1052
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:45,679
have that preliminary subdivision
approval from north as it works towards

1053
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:49,280
final subdivision sign approval and and
uh with respect to traffic as you saw

1054
01:29:47,440 --> 01:29:52,080
there's actually reduction the IT manual
says I mean despite the number of

1055
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:56,239
bedrooms being different that there's
actually a reduction because of the

1056
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:59,760
overall reduction in the number of units
a fairly substantial reduction in

1057
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:04,320
traffic from this section
of the community. But the goal here

1058
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:09,520
tonight is just to get the council's
blessing, if it's willing to provide it,

1059
01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:13,679
uh to the 85 town homes with the
modified setbacks and separation

1060
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:18,480
distances between those buildings so
that the final subdivision of move

1061
01:30:16,480 --> 01:30:22,159
forward to that final subdivision plan
approval with approvals from Belbot

1062
01:30:20,239 --> 01:30:26,639
where those types of things about
lighting of an intersection and other

1063
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:30,400
things with storm water and the state
fire marshall can all become finalized.

1064
01:30:28,719 --> 01:30:32,400
so that the town can see the the final
site.

1065
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:35,360
» Yeah, I understand and appreciate that.
I just I'd like to have it on the

1066
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:39,520
record. We're trying to be proactive
with regard to traffic management and to

1067
01:30:37,679 --> 01:30:44,719
stay ahead of the curve rather than do
the full build out. We wiss opens up and

1068
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:50,320
then we have traffic [snorts] locked up.
>> Do you know if at any point since I

1069
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:57,760
guess this started in 2008 um did Delta
require any money paid into the fund to

1070
01:30:53,840 --> 01:31:00,320
for that traffic signal? Did did anybody
pay any money in

1071
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:03,199
» that exceeds my knowledge of the history
of the project? Mr. Davidson's been

1072
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:07,403
around so with that length of the
project. I wasn't picking on your age.

1073
01:31:05,383 --> 01:31:07,403
[laughter]

1074
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:16,320
» So during the Yes. So the developers of
the prior developers of Peninsula

1075
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:21,440
Frosting paid into there's a traffic
signal agreements that were part of the

1076
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:25,040
traffic impact study that was completed
back in 2008. The construction of the

1077
01:31:23,723 --> 01:31:30,159
[clears throat] two traffic signals on
113 were paid for by the developers of

1078
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:34,639
the Peninsula crossing. And again, the
intersections with the with the traffic

1079
01:31:32,719 --> 01:31:40,639
signal agreements
um uh that were uh

1080
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:45,520
with the design of the intersection
there for Handy Road, the traffic signal

1081
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:49,760
agreements covered uh future payment for
that signal to go in. And again, that's

1082
01:31:47,679 --> 01:31:52,719
at Delta's full discretion of when that
traffic signal does go in.

1083
01:31:51,199 --> 01:31:57,520
» Okay. So when we have our discussions
with DOT uh we could say hey they paid

1084
01:31:55,679 --> 01:32:00,880
into the fund for this particular
intersection and they wouldn't call us

1085
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:05,360
liars.
>> Well not paying into the fund paying in

1086
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:09,360
for an agreement to pay for the future
traffic signal. So if the agreement

1087
01:32:07,679 --> 01:32:13,920
stated and I don't know I don't recall
what that agreement is off the top of my

1088
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:20,159
head. Um, but if the agreement stated
that they had to fully construct that

1089
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:25,120
intersection to receive a full traffic
signal in the future, that's satisfied.

1090
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:30,560
If the signal agreement and sometimes
signal agreements state that it if and

1091
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:34,560
when a traffic signal does go up that if
you're part of that agreement, then you

1092
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:39,440
have then an additional funds will have
to be contributed at a later date.

1093
01:32:36,719 --> 01:32:43,840
» Okay. So, Peninsula Crossing Shopping
Center funded or paid for that?

1094
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:49,679
» That is correct. They did.
>> I have a question about the the the town

1095
01:32:46,159 --> 01:32:54,080
home setback and parking. Are you are
the town homes each have room in their

1096
01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:59,040
drives for two cars? How far are they
off the the uh sidewalk or anything? I

1097
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:01,040
can't see from this drawing. It's so
small.

1098
01:33:00,320 --> 01:33:03,120
Um,
>> so each

1099
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:06,880
» and you count are you counting a garage
as a parking spot or

1100
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:13,600
» No, no, we're there are there is a
onecar garage. So these are 24 foot wide

1101
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:18,800
master down twotory with you know three
and fourbedroom style town homes. So

1102
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:23,120
these the parking aisles for this is so
there'll be one parking stall in front

1103
01:33:20,719 --> 01:33:27,520
in some of these setbacks. One parking
stall will be uh in front of the garage

1104
01:33:25,199 --> 01:33:30,080
and then we're designing a second stall
next to it. Okay.

1105
01:33:28,480 --> 01:33:34,880
» So, the driveways will be wide enough to
be able to handle two. In a few of these

1106
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:41,199
parking scenarios with the setbacks the
way we have on there, you can almost you

1107
01:33:38,159 --> 01:33:45,280
you'll be able to stack two cars in
front of the garage and one car off of

1108
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:50,320
the side. So, the driveways actually
will have three cars will be able to

1109
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:54,560
park three cars within their own
individual driveways within their own fe

1110
01:33:52,719 --> 01:33:58,239
simple lot. And then we have the
additional parking spaces throughout the

1111
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:02,239
townhouse project to be able to
accommodate the additional foot.

1112
01:34:00,159 --> 01:34:07,520
» So that kind of the overflow parking for
the town houses and like you got like 16

1113
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:09,679
at each end. And is there some in the
middle section there?

1114
01:34:08,239 --> 01:34:12,400
» That's correct. Right there in the right
there in the middle

1115
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:15,120
» and that's overflow as well.
>> That is correct.

1116
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:16,960
» How many spots are in there? Do you
know?

1117
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:21,400
» Another 16.
>> So we got 32 plus 16.

1118
01:34:21,679 --> 01:34:27,120
Correct. And then the rest are like
three in a driveway to come up to the

1119
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:31,040
85.
>> There'll be three in the driveway. There

1120
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:35,199
also be parking that's in the amenity
center. So nothing is throughout.

1121
01:34:33,440 --> 01:34:38,480
» Okay. Where's the amenity center?
>> We have 72 spaces within the amenities

1122
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:42,880
as well.
>> Okay. So that would be overflow for the

1123
01:34:40,719 --> 01:34:47,679
» it'll be for some of the single families
as well as the towns,

1124
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:52,480
» the single family detached across the
street. So we we've kind of positioned

1125
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:57,360
these car parks and these parking spaces
throughout this entire development so

1126
01:34:54,159 --> 01:35:02,159
that there's individual parking areas
that will be able to accommodate individ

1127
01:35:00,239 --> 01:35:06,400
all the individual houses. We did put
everything in one end or what not. We

1128
01:35:04,159 --> 01:35:11,120
try to space this thing out and then
we're we're going to prepare a you'll

1129
01:35:08,480 --> 01:35:15,760
see on on the one color rendering we do
show an example of one of the car parks

1130
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:19,440
but these are going to be uh these are
going to be landscape features. We're

1131
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:23,520
not just looking at it without put down
a bunch of pavement striping and calling

1132
01:35:21,199 --> 01:35:27,920
in parking spaces. We want to landscape
these and make these a a landscape

1133
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:30,800
feature within the development.
>> Okay.

1134
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:36,320
» So, my question is a little different.
Um the 14 acres of dedicated

1135
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:42,239
property that's supposed to go to the
town. How does that change the access uh

1136
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:44,159
if any with your new design? Does it
>> it was already conveyed to the town.

1137
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:48,639
» Okay.
>> That sort of thing. Yes. What we what we

1138
01:35:46,239 --> 01:35:54,239
did is we did maneuver a couple of
single family detached lots so that the

1139
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:56,800
14 acres that dedicated will have easier
access.

1140
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:59,520
» Okay, that preliminary plan we it was
kind of awkward.

1141
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:04,239
» Very awkward. Yeah,
>> we reposition that so that it'll be a

1142
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:07,040
little bit easier access for the town
>> through through the new the design.

1143
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:10,320
» That's correct.
>> Okay,

1144
01:36:08,239 --> 01:36:17,480
» that's the access point and the the
parcel's actually where it is.

1145
01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:17,480
It looks tireless.

1146
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:27,360
» So, it looks like the access to the park
is going to be between two homes.

1147
01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:31,679
» Yeah, there's I think [snorts] there's
greater than 50 ft there.

1148
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:36,880
» So,
>> so you're going to have public access

1149
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:39,880
coming in and through the main.
>> Yes.

1150
01:36:42,719 --> 01:36:47,440
» I'm sorry. Can you go back to that? What
was that? And maybe I wasn't paying

1151
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:52,280
attention what you were talking about
there, but the access to the park is

1152
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:52,280
between

1153
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:56,400
» you see the car park.
>> Okay. Okay.

1154
01:36:54,480 --> 01:37:00,080
» Across from east,
>> right,

1155
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:03,960
» is a rightway that leads into
that town.

1156
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:12,719
» But that had really no impact on the
town apartments versus town homes.

1157
01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:17,600
That's in front. That's um part of the
uh part of actually the original

1158
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:22,400
agreement with the prior developer with
respect to conveying this piece of

1159
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:27,600
property to the town. And what Mr.
Davidson was referring to was there was

1160
01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:32,800
the connection for the land was floating
out there and now it is immediately

1161
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:37,040
adjacent to the town so that it's it
could be annexed into the town. It's not

1162
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:40,560
presently annexed in the town. with the
land being immediately adjacent to the

1163
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:45,840
town's boundary. It could now be annexed
into the town. In addition, uh this is

1164
01:37:43,679 --> 01:37:50,560
the site plan had been revised so that
there's a more natural entrance uh into

1165
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:55,679
it. Uh before it was it was somewhat
awkward. And so those are the changes

1166
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:59,000
that have occurred in the single family
home system.

1167
01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:05,520
» So let's go back to the setbacks a
little bit. You were talking about you

1168
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:09,520
can get two cars in there in a driveway.
Your idea of a car versus mine might be

1169
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:15,400
a little bit different. What What is
that setback in footage? Can you tell me

1170
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:15,400
that

1171
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:24,000
» behind the sidewalks there? They're
greater than 25 ft long.

1172
01:38:21,679 --> 01:38:28,159
» Okay.
>> And the width that you said would

1173
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:32,400
accommodate three
>> in some in some cases. If you look at

1174
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:38,080
some of the setbacks for some of these
town houses, if it's um we can there's

1175
01:38:35,440 --> 01:38:42,480
uh there's the ability to be able to
park at least three cars in some of the

1176
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:46,639
drives, not all. Okay. Just in some
>> and that's widthwise, not front to back.

1177
01:38:45,199 --> 01:38:51,600
» That's front to back. That's stacking
two cars in front of those and then

1178
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:53,840
» parking two cars in tandem.
>> That's correct.

1179
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:57,280
» And then having another one off to the
side.

1180
01:38:54,239 --> 01:39:01,760
» That is correct.
>> And still not hanging over the

1181
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:03,760
sidewalks. not hang over the side. We
ensure that nothing's going to hang over

1182
01:39:03,440 --> 01:39:07,360
this.
>> So, this is the town parcel here.

1183
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:09,199
» The town parcel is what you're return
referring to as a park.

1184
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:11,440
» Yeah.
>> Is that

1185
01:39:10,159 --> 01:39:14,000
» Yeah. 14 acres.
>> Okay.

1186
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:16,400
» That's a name the town gave it. That's
not

1187
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:20,719
» Yeah. To be determined.
>> To be determined. Right.

1188
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:24,639
» And that
was You say there's a rightaway there

1189
01:39:22,159 --> 01:39:27,920
that properties don't actually touch.
>> They do now. They do. Now, if you were

1190
01:39:26,159 --> 01:39:30,800
to look at the conveyance, the
conveyance

1191
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:39,199
shoes.
So you can see that

1192
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:42,639
» you had it
>> the proposed park is now immediately

1193
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:45,520
adjacent
>> to the land. Okay.

1194
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:47,679
» The land and then you can that area
there is

1195
01:39:46,159 --> 01:39:52,000
» the drive entrance
>> right.

1196
01:39:48,239 --> 01:39:56,760
» How wide is that? That's you said over
>> it's either 50 or 60 ft

1197
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,760
» wide. Okay.

1198
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:01,320
It's no less than.

1199
01:40:06,719 --> 01:40:15,520
» Do you know when that 14 acres when
there was discussion about dedicating

1200
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:21,440
that to the town? Was that back in 2008
or was that a more recent

1201
01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:23,920
» that history last 2006?
2005

1202
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:31,440
» and 2005
>> the first 53 was annexed into the town

1203
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:36,560
there was talk about so if you look at
if you I don't know I have if you look

1204
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:40,560
at your future land use map front
portion of

1205
01:40:38,639 --> 01:40:44,320
where the town homes are shown shows
that as being designated as a commercial

1206
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:49,520
area. Mhm.
>> So one of the So one of the things that

1207
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:54,320
the developers then the owners of the
property profered to the town that is if

1208
01:40:52,719 --> 01:40:59,520
as they were developing Peninsula
Crossing Shopping Center that if they

1209
01:40:56,639 --> 01:41:04,320
could have that back section which I
think was 10 or 15 acres I can't

1210
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:07,679
remember how much of that was back then.
If we they could have that as a

1211
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:11,920
commercial designation not zone
commercial but as a designation on the

1212
01:41:09,440 --> 01:41:18,080
future land use map. Then what the town
asked for was for the since there was a

1213
01:41:14,719 --> 01:41:22,639
total of 300 acres for the entire parcel
that if the developer would be willing

1214
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:25,600
to dedicate land for future use by the
middle and they agreed that's the 14

1215
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:30,239
acres. Okay.
>> It was never determined where that 14

1216
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:35,040
acres was going to be. So within this
plant within their application

1217
01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:39,440
as they were getting the approvals they
prepared in they stated that's the 14

1218
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:42,719
acres they did finally lock it down and
that's where it's the dedication and

1219
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:44,159
that's what's been
>> and did you say it's already been

1220
01:41:43,679 --> 01:41:46,960
dedicated?
>> Yes it is.

1221
01:41:44,960 --> 01:41:52,800
» Okay.
>> I do like this proposal much better than

1222
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:56,560
what was presented before. Um could you
refresh our memory the lot sizes for

1223
01:41:55,119 --> 01:41:58,880
single family homes? What are they going
to be?

1224
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,760
M
>> yes

1225
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:04,719
» square foot for the
>> 6,000

1226
01:42:02,480 --> 01:42:08,560
» the lot
>> minimum

1227
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:12,159
» the minimum lot is 6,000 square feet
>> heavily detached yes

1228
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:16,880
» and the town homes is
>> somewhere around 2800 square ft

1229
01:42:15,440 --> 01:42:21,480
» they're all fe simple
>> 24 ft by 120

1230
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:32,480
» I I know We're jumping the gun here a
little bit on some things here and I may

1231
01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:38,719
be, you know, way ahead of myself here,
but um I expressed a lot of concern when

1232
01:42:36,239 --> 01:42:42,000
this first came out that there is one
way in and one way out of this

1233
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:48,400
development.
Um you're looking at was it 415

1234
01:42:46,639 --> 01:42:53,920
I believe now total units.
>> That's correct.

1235
01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:58,159
» So you're dumping let's say 850 cars out
on Handy Road through that one entrance.

1236
01:42:56,400 --> 01:43:02,239
And it's nice that you've got the right
hand and left hand turn lanes and all

1237
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:05,920
that kind of stuff.
Any road, I don't know if you've been on

1238
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:10,800
that road lately or not, is a is a very
undeveloped two-lane road and it has

1239
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:14,159
potholes along the side of it that you
can drop one of your cars into that

1240
01:43:12,480 --> 01:43:20,000
you're getting ready in your in your
your driveway there.

1241
01:43:16,719 --> 01:43:24,159
What can we do or what can be done? And
I know that's a statemaintained road,

1242
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:30,960
but has there been any thought put
together as far as

1243
01:43:27,440 --> 01:43:35,520
maybe taking care of some of that road?
I mean, it's part of the final

1244
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:40,880
subdivision or final subdivision plan
approval process. There will have to be

1245
01:43:38,639 --> 01:43:46,719
conversations with DELDOT. You have to
get letters from DELDOT indicating what

1246
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:50,800
has to occur on Handy Road. what and
that and those requirements are things

1247
01:43:48,159 --> 01:43:55,600
that will come out as those meetings and
such occur with with Delba and looking

1248
01:43:53,440 --> 01:44:00,080
at those and as Mr. Davidson indicated
there is some studying that's about to

1249
01:43:57,199 --> 01:44:04,960
occur with respect to and I'm sure
that'll go a great deal informing

1250
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:11,440
whatever requirements that Delt may have
but at this moment um that that would be

1251
01:44:07,679 --> 01:44:17,920
unknown other than the known is that the
traffic from 415 is substantially less

1252
01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:21,360
than the traffic from the existing 450.
Um, I mean,

1253
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:25,679
» but you're still dumping a lot of cars
out there on a on a basically

1254
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:30,080
undeveloped two-lane road.
>> Correct. But I mean, I think just so

1255
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:35,280
that that everyone's on the same playing
field. If the town council prefers the

1256
01:44:33,119 --> 01:44:41,040
apartments, that's already approved.
This is just is this a is this concept

1257
01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:45,360
something that the town council thinks
is better for the town of Milsboro? And

1258
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:48,880
then with respect to the separation and
and sideyard setbacks, that that's the

1259
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:53,920
question this evening. And if the town
council says no, then the 450 unit plan

1260
01:44:52,159 --> 01:44:57,280
will continue forward. Again, that
wouldn't be a Tapco's first choice on

1261
01:44:56,000 --> 01:45:02,480
this for the reasons that I said
earlier, but that that's I mean, that's

1262
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:06,920
the question that exists for the the
town council here this evening.

1263
01:45:15,199 --> 01:45:26,239
this just to get some of the history.
So, this um development

1264
01:45:23,440 --> 01:45:30,639
um the application was for it to be
zoned

1265
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:37,040
um medium residential
with an RPC overlay.

1266
01:45:34,639 --> 01:45:47,360
um apartments
and town houses are both in our high

1267
01:45:41,440 --> 01:45:50,360
residential density um communities.
Um

1268
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:57,600
this is a rhetorical question. I'm sure
you're not going to be able to answer

1269
01:45:54,080 --> 01:46:05,840
it. I just every time this comes to
council I wonder why

1270
01:46:01,119 --> 01:46:13,199
it was presented as medium residential
and the use I'm seeing is

1271
01:46:10,159 --> 01:46:18,560
is high
>> but the the reason is is because the RPC

1272
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:23,199
district allows for apartments and town
homes irrespective of whether it's an MR

1273
01:46:21,199 --> 01:46:28,440
or HR is the underlying zoning
classification that's set forth in

1274
01:46:25,119 --> 01:46:28,440
section 210-20-20.

1275
01:46:29,679 --> 01:46:37,119
And so that that's why that's allowed.
But the underlying uh density doesn't

1276
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:43,119
your density is still based on the
underlying zoning classification that

1277
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:48,639
you have for that. And so that that's
why there can be multif family housing

1278
01:46:46,239 --> 01:46:53,360
like apartments or town homes within
something that has an MR designation but

1279
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:57,520
also has that RPC designation on top of
it.

1280
01:46:54,480 --> 01:47:01,520
» I I think that thing is terrible. Um
I've said it before that I really think

1281
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:08,880
we need to look at that RPC thing
because it's like it's like a bait and

1282
01:47:04,159 --> 01:47:13,480
switch. Um but that's just me waxing
philosophically.

1283
01:47:10,480 --> 01:47:13,480
Um

1284
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:24,560
» well actually actually we did
>> last month you know we voted to increase

1285
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:27,040
the lot sizes and setbacks and of course
it wouldn't affect this development

1286
01:47:25,679 --> 01:47:30,639
because we're grandfathered in.
>> No I had

1287
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:34,560
» and I'm not sure maybe Jamie knows was
the RPC even in effect in 2007.

1288
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:38,560
» I wasn't here.
>> Yeah. I don't even think you recall. I

1289
01:47:37,199 --> 01:47:40,960
don't even think RPC was in effect when
an initial approval was given on this

1290
01:47:40,239 --> 01:47:46,400
development.
>> There were RPC there were some in town

1291
01:47:43,199 --> 01:47:50,760
like yes.
>> History back that far back though.

1292
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:57,920
» I like the plan much better. So I'll
make a motion to approve the preliminary

1293
01:47:56,719 --> 01:48:02,880
state of plan.
>> I I agree with you. I I definitely like

1294
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:05,040
it better. I second that.
All

1295
01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:07,040
» in favor say I.
I I

1296
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:10,040
» Any opposed?
>> Oppose.

1297
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:15,440
Go
>> in. Roll call, please.

1298
01:48:13,199 --> 01:48:18,480
» Yes.
>> Did the motion include the setback

1299
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:23,520
request?
>> No.

1300
01:48:19,199 --> 01:48:28,560
» Um as proposed.
>> Yes. Your your motion was to approve

1301
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:31,360
» the revised preliminary plan that was
presented tonight.

1302
01:48:29,280 --> 01:48:35,119
» As presented tonight, right? That would
include those other

1303
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:39,840
» the RPC that we're working on now
changes.

1304
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:43,119
» Okay. Um, Councilwoman Dilva, yes or no?
>> Yeah.

1305
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:49,280
» Councilwoman Khan, yes or no?
>> No.

1306
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:52,480
» Mr. Davis is absent. Uh, uh, Councilman
O'Neal, yes or no?

1307
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:56,960
» And again, a question. This is only for
the townhouse versus the apartment

1308
01:48:54,639 --> 01:49:02,400
building section, right?
amending

1309
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:05,199
» this site plan for the entire site plan
>> including the setbacks

1310
01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:10,560
» right
>> that and Mr. Hut you you also explained

1311
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:13,440
that there was um switching the
amenities not the package but the

1312
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:15,040
» right
>> yeah where they're looking

1313
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:17,440
» layout
>> so there are some other minor changes

1314
01:49:16,639 --> 01:49:23,360
throughout the
>> the layout lift but the the the changes

1315
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:28,000
Mr. there any that are what I would call
substantive changes are the 85 town

1316
01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:34,880
homes in place of 120 apartments and
then those sideyard setbacks.

1317
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:39,119
» No.
>> Uh Councilman Mason, yes or no?

1318
01:49:37,440 --> 01:49:42,480
» Yes.
>> Councilman Presley, yes or no?

1319
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:45,920
» Yes.
>> And Mayor McKe, yes or no?

1320
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:49,199
» Yes.
Okay,

1321
01:49:46,159 --> 01:49:53,239
» so we have four yes votes and two no
votes. The motion passed.

1322
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:15,040
» Next item is employee handbook
amendment. Vacation sick time. Mr.

1323
01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:20,080
Burke.
>> Yes. Uh council. um included in the

1324
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:24,880
packet. Uh we had initially brought this
before council. Uh it was initially

1325
01:50:22,239 --> 01:50:30,320
posted on September 25th and brought to
council. Um and the reasoning at that

1326
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:35,920
point in time was in anticipation of the
uh filling of the chief of police

1327
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:40,239
position. Um but we've noticed and this
has happened over the last year or so

1328
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:44,719
that when we're looking to find more
tenure employees, experienced employees

1329
01:50:42,719 --> 01:50:50,639
like level three and four wastewater
operators, uh finance assistant finance

1330
01:50:47,679 --> 01:50:56,400
directors. Um we have heard over and
over again that um they would not be

1331
01:50:53,760 --> 01:51:01,760
willing to leave their current employer
um because two weeks vacation wouldn't

1332
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:06,400
fit what they have come accustomed to in
their in their career. Uh we also are

1333
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:10,560
having now with the paid family medical
leave act um there are employees that

1334
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:15,840
were going to be taking advantage of
that uh that new law and they're going

1335
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:20,480
to be out for uh up to three months and
I do have a large scale that wouldn't

1336
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:24,480
qualify for any of those benefits. Um so
I'm trying to make the benefits package

1337
01:51:22,480 --> 01:51:30,080
more robust for the employees across the
board um so that we can be competitive

1338
01:51:28,159 --> 01:51:32,880
when we're out in hiring and retention.
It's not just for hiring, it's for

1339
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:37,040
retention as well.
>> Um, you know, we we we're growing to

1340
01:51:35,440 --> 01:51:40,320
what are we up to 543
>> 53 employees.

1341
01:51:38,719 --> 01:51:45,520
» Um, you know, I know when we're looking
for new recruits for police and that is

1342
01:51:42,480 --> 01:51:50,560
something that will set us apart. Um,
and uh, you know, so I'm asking for

1343
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:54,239
council's consideration again for this.
And we are still um you know we're

1344
01:51:52,560 --> 01:51:59,040
waiting on the payroll study which will
be part of um you know down the road but

1345
01:51:57,440 --> 01:52:03,840
um the longer we wait the more
opportunities we met with uh skilled um

1346
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:09,280
you know tenure employees from other
other uh municipalities or other other

1347
01:52:06,320 --> 01:52:14,080
industry. And um you know I I wouldn't
ask if I didn't think that it was uh it

1348
01:52:12,239 --> 01:52:17,599
would be a good benefit to give and help
us out there. We're getting ready to go

1349
01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:22,159
to rural water in February to try and
recruit more water and wastewater

1350
01:52:19,599 --> 01:52:26,639
operators. And this will help us to fill
in for those level three and four

1351
01:52:24,239 --> 01:52:30,239
operators um which are hard to find.
They don't usually leave their uh their

1352
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:34,560
current municipalities. Um but we would
like to add to our uh you know our ranks

1353
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:38,719
here so that down the road when we have
retirements we have to have a level four

1354
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:42,320
operator especially with the new
wastewater plant coming online. We're

1355
01:52:40,639 --> 01:52:46,560
going to be running simultaneously two
plants. So, um, the more skilled, uh,

1356
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:51,119
wastewater operators we have, the
better, as well as water and other other

1357
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:53,280
departments. Um, but that is my request
and I'd be happy to answer any

1358
01:52:52,400 --> 01:52:58,960
questions.
>> I have a couple questions. Um, is there

1359
01:52:55,440 --> 01:53:02,000
a a a carry forward of certain number of
hours per year that employees allowed to

1360
01:53:00,719 --> 01:53:05,360
carry if they don't use their vacation
time? Is it a use it or lose it?

1361
01:53:03,599 --> 01:53:08,320
» Yeah. No, there is there is a policy for
that. There's two policies. There's one

1362
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:15,520
for the collective bargaining unit and
then there's one for the uh non uh union

1363
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:20,880
employees as well. And to tell
>> Civilians are 56 hours 56

1364
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:26,520
» 56 for civilians. I know that one. The
other one it's

1365
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:26,520
» 84. Sorry.

1366
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:35,679
» Do you have about an idea of how many
vacancies you currently have that you're

1367
01:53:34,480 --> 01:53:41,679
trying to fill?
>> Uh yes. We have uh how many officers

1368
01:53:38,320 --> 01:53:45,760
looking for? Three officers. Um we have
uh industrial electrician position which

1369
01:53:44,080 --> 01:53:49,360
has been tough. Industrial maintenance
position which that's another one. Um we

1370
01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:54,560
want to have someone so we don't have to
outsource all our maintenance on high

1371
01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:59,679
level um equipment and we don't uh we
had an initial run of applicants and we

1372
01:53:57,280 --> 01:54:03,280
just couldn't even pay and other
benefits. We couldn't touch the people

1373
01:54:01,119 --> 01:54:08,560
that had that kind of skill set. Um
there also is um what else do we have?

1374
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:12,960
» Streets.
>> Streets. That's right. We're looking to

1375
01:54:10,080 --> 01:54:16,239
do a streets uh department uh build that
over time. Um so we're going to be

1376
01:54:14,639 --> 01:54:21,599
looking for someone at like an assistant
director level for that position. Um and

1377
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:25,360
uh we have some candidates in mind, but
their their their benefits package and

1378
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:29,920
people have shown interest. Obviously,
we would go to a full posting and

1379
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:35,119
process, but their their benefits uh
their their years of service have, you

1380
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:39,040
know, equal to too many uh multiple
weeks, four plus. Um, so some people

1381
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:43,679
will be willing to take a week, you
know, cut in and vacation, but two weeks

1382
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:47,840
is, you know, to go from four weeks to
two weeks is just not something that

1383
01:54:45,679 --> 01:54:50,000
they would consider. So we kind of knock
ourselves out of the running at that

1384
01:54:49,119 --> 01:54:54,480
point in time.
>> I think another big thing, too, is not

1385
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:58,800
just the recruitment, but retention that
when we lose a water operator or sewer

1386
01:54:56,880 --> 01:55:02,080
operator, it's not an easy position to
fill. also for losing them because they

1387
01:55:00,320 --> 01:55:05,280
can go somewhere else and get
>> more time off. It's not

1388
01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:09,040
» you don't have flexibility to bring
somebody in and start them with service.

1389
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:10,880
They got to earn the service from the
town manager.

1390
01:55:09,599 --> 01:55:15,440
» They have to earn the service and we've
consulted with several um HR attorneys

1391
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:19,760
about this and it and I think the last
time we talked about this. It's not

1392
01:55:16,719 --> 01:55:26,000
typical for um the town manager to
negotiate that at the time of hire. We

1393
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:32,360
want to have a standard um you know grid
uh that we can put into our personnel

1394
01:55:28,159 --> 01:55:32,360
manual which is what we have right now

1395
01:55:36,400 --> 01:55:42,080
» and that's total of vacation sick
personal

1396
01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:45,360
» this is just vacation
>> okay how much

1397
01:55:42,960 --> 01:55:48,960
» sick time is 96 hours per year you
>> and that's acred the vacation you can

1398
01:55:48,159 --> 01:55:53,360
take or
>> it's it's frontloaded but it's acred so

1399
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:57,599
you get access to at the beginning of
the year on January 1st, but if you

1400
01:55:55,840 --> 01:56:03,920
leave before the year is complete, then
it's you have to it's pay

1401
01:56:01,040 --> 01:56:07,400
» for deduct
last time.

1402
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:14,199
» So 96 hours per employee for sick and
personal.

1403
01:56:24,719 --> 01:56:29,520
Sick. Sick. There's no carryover.
Correct.

1404
01:56:27,599 --> 01:56:34,960
» Yes, you can carry it over up to
civilian up to 480 hours.

1405
01:56:32,800 --> 01:56:44,800
» So once you get to 480 hours, then the
town will pay you pay you

1406
01:56:37,840 --> 01:56:49,920
um a quarter of anything over 480 hours.
So there is an incentive to not use all

1407
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:53,040
their sick time.
>> Is that something they could sell back

1408
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:59,199
at at like retirement?
>> When they retire, they can um buy back

1409
01:56:55,840 --> 01:57:05,520
or they get paid out half up to 480. So
the maximum that amount that any retiree

1410
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:13,280
would make would be 240 hours.
>> That's a pretty good plan.

1411
01:57:09,119 --> 01:57:17,599
» I'm not going any make it to work.
And just, you know, with the water and

1412
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:21,119
sewer, we're competing with the private
sector, too. Artisian and Tidewater,

1413
01:57:19,360 --> 01:57:25,280
which already their pay is is
significantly higher. Um, their benefits

1414
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:32,080
package when they're private. So, it's
it's it's a whole different ball game.

1415
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:37,520
» So, the way I'm reading this is it's
basically adding

1416
01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:43,920
» um a week vacation
to, you know, every category, right?

1417
01:57:40,480 --> 01:57:52,000
Across the board for all employees. Um,
this would go into effect for

1418
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:57,040
now for January 26th when we were doing
the budgeting

1419
01:57:54,320 --> 01:58:01,520
for the year. Did you know do we have
the the wiggle room for this?

1420
01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:06,639
» Matt, do you want to comment on that?
>> Uh, I mean, any payouts happen in

1421
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:11,920
September. So, we've already surpassed
payouts for FY2.

1422
01:58:10,159 --> 01:58:16,880
No, I'm talking about now we're going to
give every employee an additional week

1423
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:21,520
vacation.
>> Any any payouts on those vacations would

1424
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:25,280
be at the end of this calendar year.
>> Okay. So, you're saying if they don't

1425
01:58:22,960 --> 01:58:30,639
use their vacation and they just get
paid out. So, during the course of the

1426
01:58:27,440 --> 01:58:35,679
year, the immediate consequence, I
guess, would be productivity downtime.

1427
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:37,599
Correct.
>> Yes.

1428
01:58:36,239 --> 01:58:40,400
» Yeah. And that's and then we're also
>> but you're gonna what you're gonna your

1429
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:42,560
your loss in financial is going to be if
you have to hire another employee

1430
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:44,159
because you got too many people on
vacation.

1431
01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:48,159
» Right. Yes.
>> And then we're also competing family

1432
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:52,159
medical act which that's a whole other
variable that we can't we can't deny

1433
01:58:50,159 --> 01:58:57,920
that vacation that that request and
that's something they come in and and

1434
01:58:53,599 --> 01:59:03,920
apply for and by state law we have to
>> I think it would be really beneficial if

1435
01:59:00,159 --> 01:59:11,040
if um if you guys could track
um the usage of of family medical leave

1436
01:59:07,679 --> 01:59:15,599
in conjunction with the the vacation
time And so that we would have an a

1437
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:21,199
better idea going into not this budget
cycle but the following budget cycle how

1438
01:59:17,119 --> 01:59:24,800
many manhour we're actually losing. Um
for example could somebody take their

1439
01:59:23,817 --> 01:59:28,400
[clears throat] six weeks of family and
medical leave and then take another four

1440
01:59:26,719 --> 01:59:32,400
weeks of vacation on top of so that you
know that gives them 10 weeks of of off

1441
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:35,840
time. You know
>> don't you have to use the the vacation

1442
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:37,599
up as you're taking family medical
leave?

1443
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:42,560
» No.
>> And and we can always deny vacation. We

1444
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:46,320
we can't deny the other. Right.
>> We have more control over the vacation

1445
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:49,599
time. And I have, you know, I've heard
several times since, you know, we

1446
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:54,880
already have, I believe heard one
employee on paid medical, uh, right now,

1447
01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:58,480
uh, which would be for 12 weeks. And
I've already heard from staff that, you

1448
01:59:56,800 --> 02:00:01,119
know, aren't in the age bracket or don't
have the family situation where they

1449
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:05,360
would ever be able to take that and
they're paying into that plan. Yeah.

1450
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:08,719
» Um, and they're they're contributing as
well. So, so that's that's, you know,

1451
02:00:07,440 --> 02:00:11,840
that's the feedback on the retention
side. Uh, but it is also helpful with

1452
02:00:10,639 --> 02:00:16,480
recruitment when we're looking to get
people mid-level or higher in their

1453
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:19,760
career with experience.
And we've got a couple years before the

1454
02:00:17,840 --> 02:00:22,159
new wastewater plants built, but you
can't wait till the last minute to

1455
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:26,639
recruit those people because we have to
get them trained on both plants. Have we

1456
02:00:24,719 --> 02:00:31,760
looked into
giving

1457
02:00:28,239 --> 02:00:40,239
I if somebody worked for say Ocean View
and they had

1458
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:44,719
six nine years there coming here
is there a way that we can give them

1459
02:00:42,639 --> 02:00:47,599
» the years of service equivalent? We
haven't at at this point.

1460
02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:50,960
» Um
>> why wouldn't you want to give them a

1461
02:00:49,040 --> 02:00:56,320
comparable package? Say they moved
closer and they don't want to commute.

1462
02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:59,679
Wouldn't that be more beneficial?
>> I don't have the authority to pick and

1463
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:01,840
choose what people are are getting for
their

1464
02:01:00,159 --> 02:01:07,760
» That's a slippery slope.
>> No, I just didn't know if we've ever

1465
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:10,880
looked into giving credit um you know
for

1466
02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:14,080
» from the police department side if if I
I

1467
02:01:11,440 --> 02:01:16,800
» the the union contract would
>> Yeah, you're coming up. Yeah.

1468
02:01:15,199 --> 02:01:21,199
» Yeah. So the union contract would
prohibit that we we

1469
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:26,159
» we we have lateral transfer in there,
but to prevent a lateral from coming in

1470
02:01:24,239 --> 02:01:30,000
and jumping a current employee, the
union contract has put in stipulations

1471
02:01:28,480 --> 02:01:34,960
preventing that. So I think that the
most they get like a two-year credit.

1472
02:01:32,560 --> 02:01:38,800
» The the other is like a PSC that Ashley,
you know, rightly mentioned is that the

1473
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:42,960
the lunch breaks are different here than
other towns. Some towns get an hour. Um

1474
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:46,639
we don't get a paid a paid lunch break
either.

1475
02:01:44,239 --> 02:01:50,639
It's an unpaid rate.
>> So every, you know, every town's package

1476
02:01:48,239 --> 02:01:54,000
is is a unique benefits package. It's
kind of hard to go apples to apples, but

1477
02:01:52,560 --> 02:01:58,080
this is one thing that we've heard and
and all our department heads can that

1478
02:01:55,920 --> 02:02:01,679
have been in these interviews can can uh
echo my sentiments that this we we've

1479
02:01:59,920 --> 02:02:05,760
heard this, you know, numerous times
from people that were really qualified

1480
02:02:03,679 --> 02:02:09,280
and we were excited, but then they just
either already have two plus weeks of

1481
02:02:08,000 --> 02:02:12,400
vacation planned, they go the same
vacation every year, and they just

1482
02:02:10,880 --> 02:02:17,920
wouldn't want to have a change to their
their lifestyle.

1483
02:02:14,639 --> 02:02:21,840
» If I could add something, please. Um, so
you know, we talked about retention and

1484
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:27,840
I think recruitment in the police
department is we've hired plenty of

1485
02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:32,960
people, but since I think 2017 or 2018,
we got authorized for 21. We've never

1486
02:02:30,239 --> 02:02:38,159
seen 21. Um, and it's because we keep
losing officers. And and I say losing

1487
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:43,599
officers either through other uh they go
to other agencies or they retire at 20.

1488
02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:46,960
And um it doesn't benefit the police
department to have an an officer retire

1489
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:53,360
at 20. I mean they're they're most
experienced and whatnot. Um so I think

1490
02:02:51,360 --> 02:02:59,040
you know we have a burnout factor
happening. Um and and there's been other

1491
02:02:56,480 --> 02:03:02,800
agencies across the country that have
implemented uh spaticals for police

1492
02:03:01,119 --> 02:03:06,320
officers where they get a month off
mandatory after three years to prevent

1493
02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:10,639
that burnout. I don't think that that's
the case here. But I do think that

1494
02:03:08,239 --> 02:03:15,760
additional time off um any public
service employee whether it be police or

1495
02:03:13,440 --> 02:03:21,840
um over here at town hall experiences
burnout based on the the nature of the

1496
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:24,960
job. Um and I think at least in the
police department I have statistical

1497
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:28,000
evidence to show that there there is
burnout. There's a mental health issue

1498
02:03:26,320 --> 02:03:33,199
and that more time off could help
benefit that as well as other avenues

1499
02:03:30,960 --> 02:03:37,440
that I hope to address later on. But I
mean I I support this and not I don't

1500
02:03:35,520 --> 02:03:41,520
need the time off. So, I mean, it
doesn't really benefit me. I see it more

1501
02:03:39,040 --> 02:03:47,679
as something that could help us
long-term retain employees that have the

1502
02:03:46,159 --> 02:03:51,760
experience and stuff that we want to
see, the expertise that we want to see

1503
02:03:49,119 --> 02:03:55,080
continue to move this town forward.
Thanks, G.

1504
02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:09,280
motion.
>> I'll make a motion to approve the

1505
02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:14,239
recommended for requested change to the
U vacation policy.

1506
02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:16,320
Second
>> second.

1507
02:04:15,520 --> 02:04:18,960
» Second that.
>> All in favor say I.

1508
02:04:18,159 --> 02:04:23,360
» I.
>> I. Any opposed?

1509
02:04:22,239 --> 02:04:27,199
» Motion passed.
>> Thank you very much. the employees watch

1510
02:04:25,199 --> 02:04:32,960
this and they they appreciate
>> that a lot. Thank you.

1511
02:04:30,639 --> 02:04:36,639
» Okay.
>> Chief of police contract approval. Mr.

1512
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:42,239
Burke.
>> Yes. In your packet um after the uh

1513
02:04:39,679 --> 02:04:46,320
employee handbook change is the
employment agreement for the uh newly

1514
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:51,520
pinned
police. Um,

1515
02:04:49,440 --> 02:05:00,560
this has been reviewed by our town
solicitor, myself, uh, and, uh, Chief

1516
02:04:55,920 --> 02:05:06,320
Moyer. Um, and, uh, we believe that
everyone is satisfied at this point, but

1517
02:05:03,599 --> 02:05:11,599
we're open for any questions. Um, any
clarifications. There is one typo on

1518
02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:16,239
page nine of the contract. Mayor McKe's
last name could have a capital K in it.

1519
02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:19,840
I apologize. uh that will be corrected
if it is approved.

1520
02:05:18,560 --> 02:05:24,080
» Usually it's my name that's spelled
wrong on

1521
02:05:22,639 --> 02:05:27,119
» you know your brain fills in the gap
sometimes. So

1522
02:05:25,520 --> 02:05:31,760
» um and then if you did notice and I
think I put this out when I I sent this

1523
02:05:29,119 --> 02:05:36,480
out um the address for the chief for
safety purposes listed as the city and

1524
02:05:34,639 --> 02:05:41,520
and and state.
>> I I think I just heard Chief Moyer say

1525
02:05:39,440 --> 02:05:47,119
they didn't need any time off,
>> right? Yeah.

1526
02:05:43,199 --> 02:05:51,599
So we could strike that clause.
>> Um, so that would mean that Moyer's zip

1527
02:05:49,520 --> 02:05:55,199
code is incorrect too in this contract.
There you go.

1528
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:57,840
» Oh, it should be what is
7 73.

1529
02:05:55,760 --> 02:06:03,199
» 73.
>> I do have a question in regards to

1530
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:10,080
section 8 termination
um, paragraph 4 and paragraph five.

1531
02:06:07,679 --> 02:06:13,760
I don't know how
maybe somebody explain to me how these

1532
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:19,760
two paragraphs work together. It it's
seems like one contradicts the other. Um

1533
02:06:17,679 --> 02:06:24,480
paragraph four says if the town
terminates the police chief's employment

1534
02:06:22,080 --> 02:06:30,400
without cause the town shall provide 6
months of salary payment. Okay. And but

1535
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:35,760
then you go to number five. It says if
the town uh terminates

1536
02:06:33,280 --> 02:06:39,760
uh without cause
so that it doesn't jeopardize his

1537
02:06:37,280 --> 02:06:45,199
pension, then we have to pay him for 20
years.

1538
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:49,760
» The the reason that was in there was uh
so this is a five-year contract. In

1539
02:06:47,520 --> 02:06:50,880
three years, I've satisfied my uh
20-year,

1540
02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:55,599
» right?
>> So then it's just a six month seance,

1541
02:06:53,199 --> 02:06:59,199
» right? I I don't think I I thought about
that too that it doesn't really affect

1542
02:06:56,880 --> 02:07:02,719
you, but are we making it I mean to me
that's kind of dangerous to have it in

1543
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:07,199
for any future contract. G give you an
example. We hire somebody to say we

1544
02:07:05,199 --> 02:07:12,159
didn't hire the best candidate in Chief
Moyer. We hire somebody from Connecticut

1545
02:07:09,040 --> 02:07:17,520
or something and he comes in and he
signs a 5-year contract. After year

1546
02:07:14,560 --> 02:07:21,199
four, we say,
you know, we're not happy with you. We

1547
02:07:19,679 --> 02:07:25,920
don't have a cause, but we're not happy
with you. We're on the hook for paying

1548
02:07:23,119 --> 02:07:30,000
him for another 16 years.
>> No,

1549
02:07:28,079 --> 02:07:33,280
» that future person has that same
provision.

1550
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:36,480
» Each one contract was tailored to
>> right

1551
02:07:33,760 --> 02:07:40,800
» the new chief's situation just like it's
not exactly the same as the previous

1552
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:43,840
contract that you had with Chief Pal.
>> Okay, that was a question.

1553
02:07:42,079 --> 02:07:46,960
» There some differences. There's a lot in
there that's substantially the same,

1554
02:07:45,599 --> 02:07:52,239
maybe even identical in certain
respects, but there are some tweaks here

1555
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:55,199
and there in order to address the
current way of the land and his

1556
02:07:53,599 --> 02:08:00,159
particular situation. But you make a
very good point that that would be

1557
02:07:56,719 --> 02:08:06,239
something that would need to be in
everybody's minds um at that future time

1558
02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:12,000
to just not carve and copy. It is a very
abnormal clause and I wouldn't have put

1559
02:08:08,000 --> 02:08:16,639
it in there had I um reached this
position at a 20-year mark. That that

1560
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:21,599
clause I wouldn't have even included in
there. Um but uh as the former chief

1561
02:08:19,599 --> 02:08:25,520
said at this level there's only one way
and that's out the door at this point

1562
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:31,920
because there's no more promotion. So um
I want to ensure that I at least reach

1563
02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:36,719
my uh retirement uh age which is the 20
year mark. So that's why that was in

1564
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:41,280
there. It's it's abnormal for um other
clauses and the clause essentially goes

1565
02:08:39,199 --> 02:08:44,400
away once I hit my 20-year mark,
>> right?

1566
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:47,400
» It'll be legally it won't have any
meaning

1567
02:08:47,440 --> 02:08:54,639
» along those lines to it. I had asked
about a probationary period and and

1568
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:58,880
again that's tailored to the individual.
So here Chief Moyer has been with this

1569
02:08:56,960 --> 02:09:04,079
department for 17 years. So he's proven
himself over 17 years. There's no reason

1570
02:09:01,360 --> 02:09:07,840
for a probationary period. uh if we
hired someone from Connecticut or

1571
02:09:05,920 --> 02:09:12,000
wherever else even though it's a chief
level we may have considered a

1572
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:16,400
probationary period of the level
>> I I I thought that was the reason this

1573
02:09:14,400 --> 02:09:21,199
is individually tailored but it it
struck me as weird and you know

1574
02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:24,880
» this was boiler played for for move the
forward and then when we look you know

1575
02:09:22,960 --> 02:09:30,239
you had mentioned about six months and
as being acting chief since August um we

1576
02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:35,119
have had the luxury of having
>> um you know chief Moyer basically

1577
02:09:33,280 --> 02:09:39,760
performing the job to the last 6 months.
Yeah. Um

1578
02:09:36,719 --> 02:09:44,320
» and and I tried to uh you know work with
Jamie and and develop a contract that is

1579
02:09:42,239 --> 02:09:49,360
in theory never green clause. We don't
have to continue to try to negotiate a

1580
02:09:46,159 --> 02:09:54,560
contract. It's it the benefits and
everything are automatically built in to

1581
02:09:51,599 --> 02:09:57,119
sustain further and prepare for budget
cycles.

1582
02:09:55,599 --> 02:10:01,520
» I make a motion to approve the
employment agreement between the town of

1583
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:07,440
Milsboro and Chief David Moyer as
presented. with a few clerical changes.

1584
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:09,199
» I'll second.
>> All in favor say I.

1585
02:10:08,800 --> 02:10:12,639
» I.
>> I.

1586
02:10:09,679 --> 02:10:16,040
» Any opposed?
Congrats,

1587
02:10:13,040 --> 02:10:16,040
» Chief.

1588
02:10:16,159 --> 02:10:21,480
» You're having you're having a good year.
I'm telling you, that's like three

1589
02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:21,480
things.

1590
02:10:22,719 --> 02:10:26,119
» Good for you.

1591
02:10:26,480 --> 02:10:32,560
» Okay.
>> Next, get your get your hands ready.

1592
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:37,040
Right. Establish a parks committee and
appoint members.

1593
02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:42,320
Here we go. All right. So, this is for
the uh 10acre park, the town park that's

1594
02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:46,239
part of the new Plantation Lake South
development.

1595
02:10:43,679 --> 02:10:49,040
» I I'll put my hand in for this. Uh so,
we're looking for volunteers for

1596
02:10:48,079 --> 02:10:51,920
» I volunteer for that.
>> You're in. Okay.

1597
02:10:50,079 --> 02:10:54,560
» I'll volunteer for that since it's my
neighborhood.

1598
02:10:52,639 --> 02:11:00,800
» Perfect.
>> All right. Um second those nominations.

1599
02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:05,920
» Second. Second.
Well, not to be technical, but don't we

1600
02:11:03,840 --> 02:11:08,079
our revised procedures? We've got to
vote to establish. Is this a new

1601
02:11:07,599 --> 02:11:10,480
committee?
>> It's a new committee.

1602
02:11:08,880 --> 02:11:13,040
» So, then we have the vote to establish
and then and then vote the member

1603
02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:16,560
» seated. Yeah.
>> To establish a new committee. So,

1604
02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:18,480
» I'll make a motion to establish new
parks committee.

1605
02:11:17,840 --> 02:11:20,960
» Second.
>> Second. All in favor say I.

1606
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:24,000
» I.
>> I. None opposed.

1607
02:11:23,520 --> 02:11:28,239
» Okay.
>> I'll make another motion. and

1608
02:11:25,119 --> 02:11:33,119
nominations for the committee. Myself,
Mary, and LeBron

1609
02:11:30,880 --> 02:11:36,239
need a second for that.
>> Second.

1610
02:11:34,560 --> 02:11:37,199
» All in favor say I.
>> I.

1611
02:11:36,560 --> 02:11:43,079
» I.
>> Any opposed?

1612
02:11:39,599 --> 02:11:43,079
» Don't move. Thank.

1613
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:58,320
» Okay.
No, I don't have a time.

1614
02:11:55,840 --> 02:12:04,560
» Next is a resolution proposing a public
hearing to be held on Monday, February

1615
02:12:00,159 --> 02:12:09,280
2nd, 2026 at 7 PM at Mills Town Center.
And this has to do with the uh changes

1616
02:12:07,040 --> 02:12:13,840
to the chapters and zoning regarding
swimming pools.

1617
02:12:11,440 --> 02:12:17,360
So, we're just looking for a resolution
to go ahead and arrange for that public

1618
02:12:15,840 --> 02:12:19,760
hearing.
>> Some moved.

1619
02:12:19,280 --> 02:12:21,966
» Second.
>> Second.

1620
02:12:20,159 --> 02:12:24,880
» Second.
[laughter]

1621
02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:25,920
» Yep. All in favor say I.
>> I.

1622
02:12:25,199 --> 02:12:30,800
» I.
>> None opposed.

1623
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:35,360
» Motion passed.
>> All right. The next item is another

1624
02:12:32,639 --> 02:12:41,840
resolution proposing a public hearing to
be held on Monday, February 2nd, 2026 at

1625
02:12:38,239 --> 02:12:46,480
7 p.m. And this has to do with uh the
highway commercial district uh thereby

1626
02:12:44,960 --> 02:12:51,599
allowing
adding mobile food vendors,

1627
02:12:49,280 --> 02:12:56,719
which we talked about at last last
month's session.

1628
02:12:53,280 --> 02:12:58,960
So, do we have a uh a motion for that
resolution?

1629
02:12:57,599 --> 02:13:01,920
» Some moved.
>> Second.

1630
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:05,280
» All in favor say I.
>> I.

1631
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:08,520
» None opposed.
Thank you.

1632
02:13:08,560 --> 02:13:15,119
Okay. Next one is an ordinance to amend
the town code of the town of Millsboro

1633
02:13:12,719 --> 02:13:19,920
by reviewing chapter 70 building
construction.

1634
02:13:17,760 --> 02:13:24,719
uh adoption of standards by reference
amendments to remove old outdated

1635
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:29,360
information replace with current updated
information.

1636
02:13:26,719 --> 02:13:32,840
And I believe uh Amy going to talk about
this a bit.

1637
02:13:33,362 --> 02:13:35,382
[laughter]

1638
02:13:40,320 --> 02:13:47,360
» Yeah.
Um but since this is chapter 70, you

1639
02:13:43,840 --> 02:13:50,800
don't have to do um a public hearing for
these. But it looks like he's gone

1640
02:13:49,520 --> 02:13:56,639
through and this is just kind of
standard um information that updated

1641
02:13:54,000 --> 02:14:03,520
anything that's underlined. Um and he's
crossed out some sections. Um this is

1642
02:13:59,760 --> 02:14:08,159
all under the uh building construction.
>> So this looks like kind of general

1643
02:14:05,920 --> 02:14:11,920
information that needs to be
>> right. Um I I actually drafted the

1644
02:14:10,400 --> 02:14:16,079
ordinance, but it's based on everything
that Mark Wellington had previously

1645
02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:21,199
submitted
uh about this particular chapter 70 um

1646
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:25,199
to the charter and code review
committee. I believe it went to you guys

1647
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:30,560
before where he just wanted to update
some of the references to the

1648
02:14:27,520 --> 02:14:35,040
international residential code etc. Um
and then add some more clarifying

1649
02:14:32,400 --> 02:14:41,520
language in certain spots. Um, so this
is his brainchild in terms of that's his

1650
02:14:38,239 --> 02:14:46,079
area of expertise, but um, I I worked
with him on this draft ordinance and he

1651
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:51,599
I to my knowledge has reviewed it and
said that it looks okay.

1652
02:14:49,040 --> 02:14:57,760
» When would be the effective date if
somebody's in the middle of a a project?

1653
02:14:56,000 --> 02:15:01,840
um
you know when would the change take

1654
02:14:59,920 --> 02:15:07,119
place if there were differences between
one code and and the other?

1655
02:15:06,320 --> 02:15:12,159
» Well,
>> and as and as an active permit,

1656
02:15:10,400 --> 02:15:15,440
» I would assume it's when you issue the
new a new permit.

1657
02:15:13,280 --> 02:15:20,880
» Yeah. if it's already been reviewed.
>> I I I think that there's probably likely

1658
02:15:19,119 --> 02:15:25,760
not a high probability that that's going
to happen simply because some of the

1659
02:15:22,639 --> 02:15:30,320
language in your existing code refers to
the International Residential Building

1660
02:15:27,920 --> 02:15:34,320
Code as of such and such date as
amended, but it's like a really old

1661
02:15:32,320 --> 02:15:38,560
date. And so he wanted to update things
to more accurately reflect

1662
02:15:36,880 --> 02:15:42,239
» the current codes and dates and how
things are titled.

1663
02:15:40,159 --> 02:15:46,880
» But because of some of the language in
your existing chapter 70, there's a good

1664
02:15:44,480 --> 02:15:50,960
chance that a lot of what this is this
cleanup that's happening here

1665
02:15:48,960 --> 02:15:54,000
» um wouldn't affect anyone anyway because
it is those international codes that

1666
02:15:53,119 --> 02:15:59,679
pretty much everybody
>> No, I know. But it's just we're talking

1667
02:15:55,599 --> 02:16:05,520
about adopting a 2021 code whereas now
we have a 2003 code.

1668
02:16:02,560 --> 02:16:08,960
We've uh they're already we're already
>> Yeah, we always adopt the newest the

1669
02:16:07,360 --> 02:16:12,400
newest
language and the code.

1670
02:16:10,400 --> 02:16:16,320
» Okay. I just wanna
>> you know I don't want somebody to you

1671
02:16:14,159 --> 02:16:20,560
know get bad news
>> in midstream. Good point.

1672
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:24,079
» I I think Mr. Wellington would be the
best person to speak to that because he

1673
02:16:22,000 --> 02:16:27,679
sees the permit applications and knows
what's out there. But from a legal

1674
02:16:26,000 --> 02:16:33,439
perspective, it's the fact that the
existing chapter 70 does refer to in

1675
02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:36,479
certain places as amended captures these
updated versions.

1676
02:16:35,120 --> 02:16:41,639
» He's just cleaning it up.
>> No, I understand that. This is chiefly

1677
02:16:38,639 --> 02:16:41,639
housekeeping.

1678
02:16:42,559 --> 02:16:47,920
» Well, and Jamie, if I've misdescribed
anything because I know you've spoken

1679
02:16:46,399 --> 02:16:51,359
with him or Ashley asked. I think it's
just giving him a leg to stand on if

1680
02:16:49,439 --> 02:16:55,599
something is challenged that he's
actually abiding by the code for people

1681
02:16:54,160 --> 02:16:58,960
get confused.
>> Historically, we've always adopted the

1682
02:16:57,120 --> 02:17:02,960
most recent code. That's that's
something that's been that way the years

1683
02:17:00,800 --> 02:17:05,960
I've been here and just continuation of
that.

1684
02:17:06,000 --> 02:17:12,719
» Okay. Make a motion that we adopt it.
>> You have a second.

1685
02:17:11,120 --> 02:17:18,800
» I'll second. All
>> in favor say I. I.

1686
02:17:15,439 --> 02:17:18,800
» Motion pass. Thank you.

1687
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:24,960
All right. Do we need to
end the session to go into public

1688
02:17:24,319 --> 02:17:28,880
hearing?
>> Well, no. Um, just you just need to open

1689
02:17:27,679 --> 02:17:32,960
the public hearing. So, you can have a
motion to open the public hearing.

1690
02:17:31,120 --> 02:17:38,240
» Before we open the hearing, if you don't
mind, I'd like to make just a couple

1691
02:17:34,719 --> 02:17:44,479
clarifying comments and then after the
period's over, make a few more. But if

1692
02:17:41,439 --> 02:17:52,000
that's okay. Okay. Um just want to
clarify what what this is and what it's

1693
02:17:47,439 --> 02:17:58,240
not. Um this is a very moderate proposal
u that would delay approval for up to 6

1694
02:17:54,719 --> 02:18:05,120
months for new residential applications
um of 10 or more residences. Um

1695
02:18:02,399 --> 02:18:09,439
what is what the basic purpose behind it
is to allow the council time to

1696
02:18:07,359 --> 02:18:14,960
understand and implement any new
legislation that comes down this cycle.

1697
02:18:12,319 --> 02:18:20,800
Um, and that would concern our budgets.
It would concern our employees, our

1698
02:18:17,359 --> 02:18:25,439
zoning, uh, building regulations, and
any other actions that, uh, they may

1699
02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:30,960
take against home.
>> What it's not is is any attempt to limit

1700
02:18:29,120 --> 02:18:37,280
affordable housing. In fact, I think
it's just the opposite. Um, it would

1701
02:18:33,120 --> 02:18:40,479
clarify um, after whatever they do, it
would be able to identify what

1702
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:45,519
affordable housing looks like in
Millsboro. We don't have that

1703
02:18:42,160 --> 02:18:49,359
information right now. Um, it will not
affect any existing residential

1704
02:18:47,519 --> 02:18:53,280
developments. The gentleman is here
tonight, Town Lakes. It doesn't affect

1705
02:18:50,719 --> 02:18:58,639
him whatsoever. They're all specifically
exempted. Um, and there's no effect on

1706
02:18:56,240 --> 02:19:03,200
commercial establishments. Again, it's a
very moderate proposal. It just buys the

1707
02:19:00,960 --> 02:19:07,359
council time to find out what new
legislation is coming down the pike in

1708
02:19:04,880 --> 02:19:10,399
the next couple of months. So, back to
you, Mr. Mayor.

1709
02:19:09,519 --> 02:19:13,399
» All right. Thank you for the
clarification.

1710
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:21,439
» I'm sorry. So again, it would be on 10
or more

1711
02:19:19,861 --> 02:19:24,639
[clears throat]
>> 10 or more homes

1712
02:19:22,719 --> 02:19:27,920
» homes and development.
>> So somebody's got acre land and want to

1713
02:19:26,399 --> 02:19:30,559
build a home owner have no effect on
them.

1714
02:19:29,120 --> 02:19:34,120
» Want to build nine homes on it wouldn't
have any effect on

1715
02:19:35,200 --> 02:19:41,760
» I I have a clarifying question. Um, if
an application has been submitted but

1716
02:19:39,760 --> 02:19:46,960
hasn't actually reached the town council
for preliminary approval, are they

1717
02:19:44,240 --> 02:19:49,840
exempt um, from this as well? If they've
already submitted an application and the

1718
02:19:48,479 --> 02:19:52,960
town has started reviewing it.
>> Well, I'm I'm sure we could decide that,

1719
02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:55,680
but do we have anything like that
pending?

1720
02:19:54,000 --> 02:20:00,240
» You do have one I think at least one
project that has submitted an

1721
02:19:57,439 --> 02:20:04,479
application, but it hasn't reached you
for preliminary approval yet. What

1722
02:20:02,880 --> 02:20:08,720
» it's still being worked on, but it has
been submitted to the town. Well, in my

1723
02:20:07,120 --> 02:20:12,319
opinion, I mean, the council can think
otherwise. In my opinion, this would

1724
02:20:10,160 --> 02:20:16,920
pertain to them. If it hasn't reached
this level yet and and for approval,

1725
02:20:18,640 --> 02:20:24,200
but it's something we can decide in the
resolution or the ordinance.

1726
02:20:27,760 --> 02:20:30,760
Um,

1727
02:20:30,880 --> 02:20:37,359
and keeping in mind the earliest this go
effect would be next month anyway.

1728
02:20:35,600 --> 02:20:40,520
We have to draft the ordinance and vote
on it.

1729
02:20:49,359 --> 02:20:52,920
Any further comments?

1730
02:20:53,359 --> 02:21:00,000
Have a motion to open a public hearing.
>> Make motion to open the public hearing.

1731
02:20:59,439 --> 02:21:07,000
» Second.
>> Second. All in favor say I.

1732
02:21:02,319 --> 02:21:07,000
» I. Any opposed?

1733
02:21:07,680 --> 02:21:13,840
Okay. Public session is now open.
Anyone's interested in speaking

1734
02:21:12,080 --> 02:21:19,319
» one at a time, just approach the
microphone and state your name, address,

1735
02:21:19,920 --> 02:21:25,120
» we do have a
there. They want to write their names so

1736
02:21:23,600 --> 02:21:31,800
that
>> Lauri Walsh 27806

1737
02:21:27,760 --> 02:21:31,800
Rona Rapids Landing

1738
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:37,359
» just write your name there. So,
>> okay.

1739
02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:44,000
» Um, I wasn't going to speak tonight, but
I just saw the town in action limiting

1740
02:21:41,200 --> 02:21:50,479
affordable housing.
That developer offered to keep rental

1741
02:21:46,800 --> 02:21:56,240
apartments on his plan
and rental apartments are affordable

1742
02:21:53,600 --> 02:22:01,600
because renters do not have to come up
with a down payment. They can afford to

1743
02:21:59,200 --> 02:22:08,399
rent. All they usually have to come up
with is one month's deposit.

1744
02:22:04,720 --> 02:22:15,439
I think the town is deliberately
avoiding allowing affordable housing in

1745
02:22:11,600 --> 02:22:21,520
this area and putting a moratorum in
place after approving

1746
02:22:19,120 --> 02:22:26,160
switching from apartments to town houses
is like sneaking something under the

1747
02:22:23,840 --> 02:22:29,399
radar.
Thank you.

1748
02:22:47,920 --> 02:22:54,319
Good evening. Um, I live in Dover. Do
you need to know that information?

1749
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:56,800
» You could just sign your name.
>> Okay.

1750
02:22:55,200 --> 02:23:01,120
» And print your name. Excuse me.
>> Okay. Well, um, good evening, mayor and

1751
02:22:59,439 --> 02:23:04,560
members of the Millsboro Town Council.
My name is Katie Gillis. I'm the

1752
02:23:02,399 --> 02:23:10,160
executive officer of the Homebuilders
Association of Delaware. I'm here to

1753
02:23:06,880 --> 02:23:14,240
urge you to reject any proposal of a
moratorum on affordable housing

1754
02:23:12,399 --> 02:23:17,920
applications. In a time when
affordability has reached historic lows,

1755
02:23:16,399 --> 02:23:22,240
halting the production of affordable
housing is counterintuitive.

1756
02:23:20,160 --> 02:23:26,800
Pausing new projects further limits
supply ultimately increases rents and

1757
02:23:24,560 --> 02:23:31,200
home prices in the area and raises
development costs, further exasperating

1758
02:23:29,280 --> 02:23:34,880
affordability.
When the pause ends, fewer homes get

1759
02:23:33,040 --> 02:23:38,720
built and fewer families are served.
That is the opposite of what our

1760
02:23:36,319 --> 02:23:43,120
communities in Delaware need right now.
Affordable housing is also an economic

1761
02:23:40,640 --> 02:23:48,720
issue. Construction creates local jobs
and completed housing helps employers

1762
02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:52,240
keep workers who need to live where they
work. When housing options are

1763
02:23:50,399 --> 02:23:56,880
constrained, workers face longer
commutes or forced to leave the area

1764
02:23:54,160 --> 02:24:01,120
altogether, which hurts local businesses
and strains public services. I ask you

1765
02:23:59,439 --> 02:24:05,840
to consider the message that you might
be sending to your teachers, to your

1766
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:11,040
nurses, to your service workers who live
here, uh, who work here, but who cannot

1767
02:24:08,080 --> 02:24:14,560
afford to live here. I also want to flag
a serious legal concern. A moratorium

1768
02:24:13,040 --> 02:24:18,880
that targets or disproportionately
affects affordable housing could expose

1769
02:24:16,880 --> 02:24:22,080
the town to risk under the fair federal
fair housing act. I'm saying could I

1770
02:24:20,319 --> 02:24:25,040
don't know that for sure. Affordable
housing disproportionately serves

1771
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:28,479
families with children, people with
disabilities, and communities of color.

1772
02:24:26,880 --> 02:24:32,800
And policies that limit access to
housing for these groups, even

1773
02:24:30,479 --> 02:24:37,200
unintentionally, can have significant
legal consequences. Across Delaware and

1774
02:24:35,520 --> 02:24:39,840
the region, many local governments are
doing the opposite of imposing

1775
02:24:38,399 --> 02:24:43,920
moratoriums. They are actively
re-evaluating zoning, permitting, and

1776
02:24:42,399 --> 02:24:47,840
development standards to figure out how
to make housing more attainable for

1777
02:24:45,680 --> 02:24:51,280
their residents. Mills should be part of
that conversation, not moving in the

1778
02:24:49,680 --> 02:24:55,080
opposite direction. Thank you very much.
I appreciate the time tonight.

1779
02:25:13,680 --> 02:25:18,800
» Good evening. My name is John Warner.
I'm the president of the Home Builders

1780
02:25:16,399 --> 02:25:22,800
Association of Delaware. We're in the
middle of a housing crisis and every

1781
02:25:20,560 --> 02:25:26,240
expert agrees this has been largely
caused by a supply s shortage and

1782
02:25:24,640 --> 02:25:29,359
specifically a supply shortage in the
types of units that we need for

1783
02:25:27,520 --> 02:25:33,600
affordability including apartments and
town homes. With that in mind, it is

1784
02:25:31,520 --> 02:25:38,000
unconscionable to consider a moratorum
that not only exacerbates this issue but

1785
02:25:35,520 --> 02:25:41,760
causes significant economic harm not
just towards the people employed uh in

1786
02:25:40,160 --> 02:25:45,920
the construction industry but also the
members of local community and all

1787
02:25:43,280 --> 02:25:50,000
aspects of the local economy. This
proposal is particularly egregious

1788
02:25:47,359 --> 02:25:54,479
because as proposed is blatantly illegal
for a moratorum uh to be legal, it must

1789
02:25:52,720 --> 02:25:58,640
be for a legitimate public purpose. The
stated reasoning here is vague concerns

1790
02:25:57,359 --> 02:26:02,319
uh regarding affordable housing
regulations that don't even exist. They

1791
02:26:01,120 --> 02:26:05,200
haven't been drafted. They haven't been
promulgated. The affordable housing

1792
02:26:03,600 --> 02:26:08,800
production task force of which I was a
member of the zoning subcommittee that

1793
02:26:07,359 --> 02:26:14,080
report was produced in April. The
governor's task force with work came

1794
02:26:10,240 --> 02:26:18,160
out. Nothing exists at all. there is the
potential vague threat that exists at

1795
02:26:15,840 --> 02:26:22,800
any given time for regulation to occur
that has existed

1796
02:26:20,160 --> 02:26:28,960
forever. Um, and yet that is being
profered as the basis for this. It's

1797
02:26:26,720 --> 02:26:32,960
illegal. That's not a legitimate public
purpose. And the Homebuilders

1798
02:26:30,479 --> 02:26:37,439
Association of Delaware will absolutely
challenge this in court were this

1799
02:26:34,800 --> 02:26:41,120
moratorium to take effect.
That being said, it has always been our

1800
02:26:39,359 --> 02:26:44,240
position to work with municipalities and
localities and we've shown that in the

1801
02:26:42,640 --> 02:26:47,680
past. We've worked directly with Sussex
County and formed the land use reform

1802
02:26:45,920 --> 02:26:51,840
working group and we work with other
organizations to try to address the

1803
02:26:49,840 --> 02:26:55,120
pressing needs that they're feeling from
the strains of development while also

1804
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:59,760
trying to address the needs of society
as it relates to affordable housing. Our

1805
02:26:57,680 --> 02:27:03,520
association welcomes that opportunity to
engage with the city to try to address

1806
02:27:01,920 --> 02:27:06,479
some of the concerns that the city has
while also addressing some of the

1807
02:27:04,640 --> 02:27:11,200
needing societal concerns related to
affordable housing. We think that the

1808
02:27:08,479 --> 02:27:15,120
most prudent course here would be not to
enact a moratorum, but would be to

1809
02:27:12,800 --> 02:27:18,800
instead act with haste to revise your
codes to reflect how the city of

1810
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:22,240
Millsboro should look in the eyes of
you, the town council, as well as the

1811
02:27:20,880 --> 02:27:26,399
residents with an eye toward those
people who maybe don't live here yet,

1812
02:27:24,080 --> 02:27:29,680
but are working in your restaurants,
working in your schools, working in your

1813
02:27:28,000 --> 02:27:34,560
daycarees.
Um,

1814
02:27:32,000 --> 02:27:37,840
one other thing that I I that a little
bit bugged me when reading about this

1815
02:27:36,319 --> 02:27:42,800
was there were some concerning
statements made by members of this

1816
02:27:39,520 --> 02:27:47,120
council about affordable housing. Um,
those statements

1817
02:27:44,640 --> 02:27:52,319
included rhetoric and talking points
that have been thoroughly debunked

1818
02:27:50,160 --> 02:27:56,080
through many, many, many scholarly
articles about the impacts of affordable

1819
02:27:54,000 --> 02:28:00,479
housing. Affordable housing is not
driving crime. Affordable housing is not

1820
02:27:58,240 --> 02:28:03,840
driving all of these terrible things.
Affordable housing is not putting people

1821
02:28:02,080 --> 02:28:07,040
into your communities that you don't
want there and that are not already

1822
02:28:05,120 --> 02:28:10,720
there. Affordable housing is probably
providing a place for people to live

1823
02:28:08,479 --> 02:28:13,680
that are already living and working in
your community. And maybe they're living

1824
02:28:12,479 --> 02:28:16,720
here, but they're not in the type of
housing that's providing them a stable

1825
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:22,479
environment. And that's what we need to
do. The last point I will make is I'm a

1826
02:28:19,359 --> 02:28:27,280
little confused by the process here.
Typically, a public hearing um under

1827
02:28:25,840 --> 02:28:30,000
sort of established Delaware law, you
have an ordinance, you have a public

1828
02:28:28,479 --> 02:28:33,359
hearing, you have a notice that gives
the opportunity for the public to

1829
02:28:31,280 --> 02:28:37,760
understand exactly what is being
considered. And here we have a one-page

1830
02:28:35,680 --> 02:28:40,640
thing that says uh an ordinance on
residential development based on

1831
02:28:39,520 --> 02:28:44,240
potential affordable housing
regulations. I learned for the first

1832
02:28:42,080 --> 02:28:47,439
time sort of the scope that's being
proposed, which that was outside of the

1833
02:28:45,920 --> 02:28:52,160
public record in the public hearing that
it's now 10 units. Um there are just so

1834
02:28:50,560 --> 02:28:56,880
many things wrong with how this is being
proposed. So I think the right thing to

1835
02:28:53,840 --> 02:29:00,960
do is to not enact a moratorum to lean
in on solving the problem rather than

1836
02:28:59,200 --> 02:29:04,080
kicking the can down the road. And the
last and the last and final point that I

1837
02:29:02,560 --> 02:29:08,160
will make one legislator said to me
about this exact action. They said this

1838
02:29:06,399 --> 02:29:15,120
is exactly what will cause the state to
act when local governments are refusing

1839
02:29:12,880 --> 02:29:20,319
to do what is needed to address the
housing needs of its population. So if

1840
02:29:17,280 --> 02:29:24,080
your goal here is to keep the big bad
boogeyman of potential regulation of the

1841
02:29:22,080 --> 02:29:26,960
state away, you are doing the exact
opposite. You are ensuring that the

1842
02:29:25,840 --> 02:29:30,880
state that is looking at your
municipality and saying they are not

1843
02:29:28,880 --> 02:29:34,160
providing for the housing needs of their
citizenry. You're ensuring that the

1844
02:29:32,560 --> 02:29:36,880
state is going to come down here and say
if you're not going to do it, you're

1845
02:29:35,520 --> 02:29:43,000
forcing our hand because we're not okay
with citizens of the state of Delaware

1846
02:29:38,319 --> 02:29:43,000
not having adequate housing. Thank you.

1847
02:30:07,439 --> 02:30:13,840
Good evening, mayor and council. My name
is John Ford. I'm a Sussex County

1848
02:30:10,720 --> 02:30:17,760
resident. I'm uh also a board member for
the Homebuilders Association of

1849
02:30:15,359 --> 02:30:24,080
Delaware. Most of my points have been
said by um by John her and Katie Gillis,

1850
02:30:21,520 --> 02:30:29,200
but I did want to also state that I'm
adamantly against any moratorum for

1851
02:30:26,800 --> 02:30:32,880
those reasons that they stated. Uh I'm
also the owner of ReMax Associates,

1852
02:30:31,200 --> 02:30:37,439
which is a real estate company serving
all of Delaware. We have an office in

1853
02:30:34,560 --> 02:30:44,160
Sussex County, and I can tell you that
we feel the squeeze and the pain of the

1854
02:30:40,800 --> 02:30:47,359
affordability crisis daily. Uh I have an
appointment on Friday with a young

1855
02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:51,840
couple that's looking to buy their first
home and it's a different conversation

1856
02:30:49,439 --> 02:30:57,520
that it's been uh that it that it has
been in the past 10 years, 20 years and

1857
02:30:54,479 --> 02:31:02,080
certainly 38 years ago. I was able to
rent an apartment, buy a home uh with,

1858
02:31:00,640 --> 02:31:05,760
you know, in this beautiful country to
get a mortgage with a very low down

1859
02:31:03,600 --> 02:31:10,720
payment and build some equity and then
move on to my next home. And I think

1860
02:31:08,160 --> 02:31:15,359
that it is time for all of us to roll up
our sleeves, get to work, and talk about

1861
02:31:13,359 --> 02:31:20,720
the type of housing that ex that can
exist that is a combination of the

1862
02:31:18,160 --> 02:31:25,840
apartments, the town homes, the single
family homes. So, everyone can find

1863
02:31:23,280 --> 02:31:31,200
housing that's that fits their needs
until their needs outgrow uh where they

1864
02:31:28,960 --> 02:31:37,040
are and they have the option of moving
up to additional housing, the next level

1865
02:31:33,280 --> 02:31:44,120
of housing. So my my point here is to
please do not uh move forward with any

1866
02:31:39,680 --> 02:31:44,120
moratorum. Thank you.

1867
02:32:07,840 --> 02:32:11,640
any other speakers.

1868
02:32:15,359 --> 02:32:23,280
Good evening, Ken Christenberry. I did
speak earlier, but I didn't write my

1869
02:32:18,960 --> 02:32:27,359
name down for that one. So u I'm not
only a professional engineer who

1870
02:32:24,560 --> 02:32:32,160
practices land use in Sussex County and
have for the last 25 years. I live one

1871
02:32:30,080 --> 02:32:37,359
mile from here in Plantation Lakes and I
have for six years and in 2004 I moved

1872
02:32:35,040 --> 02:32:41,680
into the Millsboro zip code. So I'm very
much familiar with the area. I've been

1873
02:32:39,040 --> 02:32:48,319
here for most of my adult life. I've
raised my kids here. Uh we have grown

1874
02:32:45,520 --> 02:32:52,560
we've grown a lot and is it time to take
a hard look at things and think about

1875
02:32:50,479 --> 02:32:58,240
what directions do we want the town to
go in? Sure. But I do think a moratorum

1876
02:32:56,479 --> 02:33:04,080
has potential to do a lot more harm than
good. I think you can uh

1877
02:33:01,920 --> 02:33:08,880
stifle people who might have just
conceived of a project and they're about

1878
02:33:05,920 --> 02:33:16,640
ready to apply and all of a sudden uh a
fairly uh hasty moratorum

1879
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:20,560
really is a puts a very chilling effect.
I'm not the only one in this room or in

1880
02:33:18,640 --> 02:33:25,840
this town who does make a living tied to
real estate and construction and

1881
02:33:22,399 --> 02:33:29,200
development. A lot of folks do. Uh so I
would encourage you to to take that

1882
02:33:27,120 --> 02:33:34,640
advice of thinking about what your goals
are and trying to move in the direction

1883
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:40,280
where you update your ordinances without
going to the extreme measure. Thank you.

1884
02:33:57,040 --> 02:34:04,240
Hi, good evening, mayor, council
members. My name is Debbie Fenerero and

1885
02:34:02,080 --> 02:34:07,439
uh I'm a partner and I head up our
construction department at Leon Weiner

1886
02:34:06,080 --> 02:34:13,120
and Associates out of Wilmington,
Delaware. I build affordable housing.

1887
02:34:10,880 --> 02:34:20,560
Been building affordable housing for 36
years. Um we're in a major housing

1888
02:34:16,319 --> 02:34:24,880
crisis as uh you've already heard. Um,
one of the things that I heard tonight

1889
02:34:22,080 --> 02:34:29,840
was kind of disturbing is that there's
an application in currently for

1890
02:34:26,640 --> 02:34:34,399
affordable housing. Please keep in mind
that when these applications are

1891
02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:39,840
approved, it's a process. There's a lot
of financial and a lot of hard work that

1892
02:34:36,960 --> 02:34:45,680
goes into that and denying something
that is in the process right now could

1893
02:34:42,880 --> 02:34:50,240
turn tax credits and funding back where
that affordable housing will go away

1894
02:34:47,359 --> 02:34:55,840
forever and never return.
I really really hope that you reconsider

1895
02:34:53,200 --> 02:35:00,319
uh this moratorum because it goes
against everything that we have

1896
02:34:57,840 --> 02:35:03,680
discussed. I was part of the affordable
housing task force as well on a

1897
02:35:02,080 --> 02:35:09,520
subcommittee
and a moratorum was not one of the items

1898
02:35:06,720 --> 02:35:12,760
that was issued in the final report.
Thank you.

1899
02:35:27,760 --> 02:35:31,000
Thank you.

1900
02:35:51,200 --> 02:35:57,120
Hello and good evening. Uh my name is
Kathy Hidle and um I live in Plantation

1901
02:35:55,600 --> 02:36:01,920
Lakes.
I really think that we have to look at

1902
02:35:59,439 --> 02:36:08,880
the uh amount of affordable housing
that's already in Millsboro and if we

1903
02:36:05,200 --> 02:36:15,200
have satisfied that affordable housing
um there's nothing wrong with taking

1904
02:36:11,840 --> 02:36:21,760
some time out and making an assessment
uh and taking a good look at what will

1905
02:36:18,880 --> 02:36:26,960
what the effects are of you know further
development and um I mean even the town

1906
02:36:24,640 --> 02:36:32,000
lakes development I see because I live
in Plantation Lakes and I see the

1907
02:36:28,560 --> 02:36:38,000
limitations that we have there versus
how the changes happen for this uh what

1908
02:36:35,520 --> 02:36:42,319
is it called Town Lakes development
where you are actually looking at the

1909
02:36:39,920 --> 02:36:48,160
setbacks and you're looking at the you
know uh the uh driveway approaches and

1910
02:36:46,000 --> 02:36:52,560
everything like that whereas in
Plantation Lakes there are a lot of

1911
02:36:49,920 --> 02:36:58,880
faults in in that particular community.
So taking a break and taking a look and

1912
02:36:55,280 --> 02:37:03,040
really seeing um you know what you're
looking at and you know what can be done

1913
02:37:00,720 --> 02:37:06,479
what can be changed possibly after 6
months you'll say yes you know

1914
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:12,000
affordable housing is something that we
should look at maybe we should approve

1915
02:37:08,479 --> 02:37:15,760
it um but I I don't I don't see anything
wrong with having a moratorium

1916
02:37:13,359 --> 02:37:20,160
especially six months I think it's a
it's a good thing to do and I don't

1917
02:37:18,319 --> 02:37:25,200
think the public is really being
represented here I think if you took

1918
02:37:22,160 --> 02:37:29,280
took um if you really asked I don't know
whether you do a referendum or anything

1919
02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:35,040
like that uh if you would he actually
get the public's opinion at Millsboro as

1920
02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:38,040
to how they feel about it. Is that
possibility?

1921
02:37:45,680 --> 02:37:56,160
I personally did not um
ask for or go on any um social media

1922
02:37:53,600 --> 02:38:02,479
sites or even talk to neighbors about
tonight's hearing. I I want the council

1923
02:37:58,720 --> 02:38:06,000
to hear this. Um
but I think if if if this was put out

1924
02:38:04,560 --> 02:38:11,520
there, we would have a thousand people
in here tonight. And I think 900 of them

1925
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:17,200
would say that's a good idea. Get your
financial house in order in order that

1926
02:38:14,479 --> 02:38:22,640
we can go forward for the next five or
10 years. And how about looking out for

1927
02:38:20,080 --> 02:38:27,439
the residents who live here versus the
residents that may live here in five or

1928
02:38:25,040 --> 02:38:31,280
10 years from now?
Maybe we should have done it. Maybe I

1929
02:38:28,800 --> 02:38:35,479
should have done that. Um but we'll see
what happens with the vote tonight.

1930
02:39:02,800 --> 02:39:07,720
Mary Anderson. Um,

1931
02:39:08,560 --> 02:39:15,200
I'm trying to think of the right words,
but I'm not going to waste time on that.

1932
02:39:12,319 --> 02:39:22,240
I think it was really underhanded to do
that. I think the people in Millsboro

1933
02:39:18,640 --> 02:39:26,319
have a right to be represented. I think
there needs to be transparency. I

1934
02:39:24,560 --> 02:39:31,840
question I wasn't even sure the way it
was written on the agenda if it was

1935
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:36,080
considering
to to decide if there was going to be a

1936
02:39:33,920 --> 02:39:40,399
public hearing in February or if tonight
was the public hearing. And then I

1937
02:39:38,000 --> 02:39:45,920
thought if it's tonight, why isn't it in
in the beginning of the meeting like

1938
02:39:43,359 --> 02:39:53,720
public hearings always are when people
are here instead of 9 or 10:00, whatever

1939
02:39:49,280 --> 02:39:53,720
it is. Um

1940
02:39:55,840 --> 02:40:05,479
I think if the town of Millsboro
approves this tonight,

1941
02:40:02,000 --> 02:40:05,479
you ought to be ashamed.

1942
02:40:13,040 --> 02:40:21,680
Well, ma'am, I could probably answer
your question. Um, and maybe maybe the

1943
02:40:18,560 --> 02:40:26,640
word after tonight does need to get out
to all the residents so that we could

1944
02:40:24,000 --> 02:40:32,800
see what what uh the resident's feelings
are. Um, but this is does tonight

1945
02:40:30,160 --> 02:40:37,840
doesn't settle the issue. tonight only
instructs the attorney to draw up in an

1946
02:40:35,680 --> 02:40:43,200
ordinance. The real vote would be in
February. So, there's plenty of time if

1947
02:40:41,439 --> 02:40:48,920
the residents want to turn out in favor
of it or against it to show up in

1948
02:40:45,520 --> 02:40:48,920
February meeting.

1949
02:40:56,560 --> 02:41:00,120
» Any other speakers?

1950
02:41:18,240 --> 02:41:29,520
name is William Bashlin. I also am a
resident Plantation Lakes,

1951
02:41:24,960 --> 02:41:36,720
but I'm speaking now as a commuter
in the town of Millsboro

1952
02:41:32,720 --> 02:41:42,920
and in this Sussex County.
I've been here 10 years and I've seen

1953
02:41:39,600 --> 02:41:42,920
this traffic

1954
02:41:42,960 --> 02:41:50,479
just terrible. It's it's it's just
gotten so out of hand from the time I

1955
02:41:48,000 --> 02:41:55,520
first moved here. There's nothing but
construction. They'll start popping up

1956
02:41:53,120 --> 02:42:01,760
these homes. This gentleman wants to put
in a town lake here off a handy road. As

1957
02:41:59,359 --> 02:42:05,920
Mr. Mason said, what about the entrance?
You got one way in, one way out. What if

1958
02:42:03,600 --> 02:42:11,600
you got an emergency? Everybody here is
going to try get out on emergency

1959
02:42:08,640 --> 02:42:16,479
situation on one road. Handy road is
terrible. You're right. You can lose a

1960
02:42:14,000 --> 02:42:21,359
car there
trying to get all he's doing is talking

1961
02:42:18,479 --> 02:42:27,840
about the 400 homes in Town Lake. Now,
we're speaking only of Town Lake right

1962
02:42:22,880 --> 02:42:32,240
now and he's talking about 800 cars in
that one division. Not taking into

1963
02:42:30,399 --> 02:42:37,200
consideration all the traffic that goes
over to that shopping center. the new

1964
02:42:35,600 --> 02:42:42,800
grocery store that's going to be up. You
got the hotel, doctors, fast food. Those

1965
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:50,000
are also cars coming in and out and road
alone. Not to mention out there on 113.

1966
02:42:46,080 --> 02:42:56,720
You can't get to Georgetown and and and
beyond that you got traffic tied up in

1967
02:42:53,280 --> 02:43:01,760
Millsboro and in Georgetown. The traffic
is and then you're that I'm talking

1968
02:42:58,319 --> 02:43:07,840
about right now off season you got
construction going out 113. You got

1969
02:43:04,319 --> 02:43:12,800
truck construction going out there on 24
constantly on both sides. Look at the

1970
02:43:09,680 --> 02:43:17,040
roads. If you keep adding homes, and I
don't understand about the affordable

1971
02:43:14,319 --> 02:43:22,080
housing, but even those people have
cars, and you're right, you're going to

1972
02:43:19,439 --> 02:43:28,000
have two cars
minimum of a house.

1973
02:43:25,280 --> 02:43:32,479
I say you slow down the the building.
Let's get caught up with the roads. you

1974
02:43:30,640 --> 02:43:37,120
get you build a road then you start
building houses and stuff not vice versa

1975
02:43:35,439 --> 02:43:43,240
not playing catchup and that's all these
people are doing around here playing

1976
02:43:38,800 --> 02:43:43,240
catchup. Thank you.

1977
02:43:49,439 --> 02:43:57,160
Anyone else?
Simon, is anyone uh anyone online?

1978
02:44:00,479 --> 02:44:05,520
Council members, that you all did
receive a couple of different emails, I

1979
02:44:04,000 --> 02:44:11,479
believe, this evening
>> from uh different organizations stating

1980
02:44:08,240 --> 02:44:11,479
their position.

1981
02:44:12,000 --> 02:44:17,439
» And then there was another one from um
Can you speak a little louder?

1982
02:44:15,840 --> 02:44:23,680
» One was from Msculus, I believe, and
then there was one from Carl Freeman. Um

1983
02:44:20,000 --> 02:44:25,760
they sent one in opposition as well.
>> Can someone send those emails to me

1984
02:44:25,439 --> 02:44:29,399
please?
>> Sure. Thank you.

1985
02:44:36,800 --> 02:44:41,560
» I'd like to make a comment if I could.

1986
02:44:42,960 --> 02:44:53,840
When we had the vote at the last meeting
whether or not to have

1987
02:44:49,279 --> 02:44:59,640
this meeting, this hearing. Um, I was a
little no vote. Um, because

1988
02:45:00,240 --> 02:45:08,720
I understood what you were saying, Mr.
Presley and it's very concerning to me

1989
02:45:06,080 --> 02:45:14,640
that the state
has been overreaching

1990
02:45:11,600 --> 02:45:20,640
its authority and not respecting home
rule. Our county and Fenwick both have

1991
02:45:18,080 --> 02:45:26,720
lawsuits.
Town of Millsboro

1992
02:45:23,120 --> 02:45:32,560
has also suffered in the past from state
overreach.

1993
02:45:28,399 --> 02:45:40,640
And I'd really like to see going forward
um some kind of coalition of towns and

1994
02:45:38,000 --> 02:45:45,920
other political subdivisions
to come back at the state for their

1995
02:45:44,720 --> 02:45:50,160
overreach.
>> Somebody's got to go first.

1996
02:45:48,080 --> 02:45:57,760
» I I understand what you're saying, but I
think we need to do that collectively.

1997
02:45:53,680 --> 02:46:04,560
Um, I objected to this hearing because I
felt like with the focus being the

1998
02:46:01,120 --> 02:46:11,439
affordable housing, it wasn't just a
building moratorum but about a who who

1999
02:46:08,240 --> 02:46:16,720
was coming moratorum and that's just my
own personal feeling. Um,

2000
02:46:14,800 --> 02:46:21,200
and
you know I don't know if we should have

2001
02:46:18,160 --> 02:46:27,359
a building moratorum or not. Um, I
didn't like the specifics of this one

2002
02:46:24,319 --> 02:46:35,200
that was being proposed, but I really
think that the town has to get together

2003
02:46:32,000 --> 02:46:41,600
with other municipalities
and

2004
02:46:37,120 --> 02:46:48,160
go back at the state with um their their
threat to home rule.

2005
02:46:43,920 --> 02:46:53,200
Well, I think and this is my concern and
home rule is not a is not in the

2006
02:46:50,560 --> 02:46:57,520
Delaware's constitution. It's it's a
legislative act that can be changed at

2007
02:46:56,000 --> 02:47:03,439
any point in time. They could they could
vote February 1st to do away with all of

2008
02:47:00,479 --> 02:47:07,439
our ordinances and and basically take
over every municipality in the state.

2009
02:47:05,520 --> 02:47:11,760
Um,
so

2010
02:47:08,960 --> 02:47:18,000
my point and two things, this is not
about affordable housing. It's not about

2011
02:47:14,560 --> 02:47:22,640
affordable housing. We're this ordinance
would restrict applications for all

2012
02:47:20,960 --> 02:47:28,000
residential construction, not just
affordable housing. Um,

2013
02:47:26,479 --> 02:47:31,920
so it's not about affordable housing.
And secondly, you know, we've had some

2014
02:47:30,080 --> 02:47:37,520
speakers here tonight that that defended
their their occupations and and um and

2015
02:47:34,960 --> 02:47:42,080
who they represent very well. I think we
should have all expected that. Um if I

2016
02:47:40,160 --> 02:47:48,160
was the home builder or if I represented
a homebuilding associations, I would

2017
02:47:44,560 --> 02:47:53,279
think the same thing. But guess what? If
you've lived here in Suchasis County for

2018
02:47:50,399 --> 02:47:58,000
any length of time, you know that a
fivemon, six month, or if we voted,

2019
02:47:55,439 --> 02:48:02,720
two-month moratorum is going to slow
down things in Millsboro or Sussex

2020
02:48:00,240 --> 02:48:09,600
County. It's not going to happen. The
only thing this moratorum allows is for

2021
02:48:06,160 --> 02:48:17,279
the council to recognize what's coming
our way. Um, as of January 1st, no

2022
02:48:14,479 --> 02:48:22,640
landlord can refuse to take section 8
vouchers.

2023
02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:27,439
It's queued up um in the already through
the committees and the legislature to

2024
02:48:24,960 --> 02:48:33,359
overrule our ordinances on accessory
dwelling units. Um, this is going down

2025
02:48:31,359 --> 02:48:38,560
the list the seven or eight things
that's in the affordable task force. um

2026
02:48:36,160 --> 02:48:44,000
they're going to do and I'm I'm not a
prog prognosticator but it seems to me

2027
02:48:40,960 --> 02:48:49,680
they are heading in that direction with
the support of homebuilders and

2028
02:48:46,080 --> 02:48:54,240
developers. Um so our reaction is going
to be okay, you know, we're not going to

2029
02:48:51,760 --> 02:48:58,960
do anything. What what can we do? We can
we can call Rich Collins. We can call

2030
02:48:56,160 --> 02:49:04,479
Gerald Hawker. They're outnumbered. If
if if the legislature wants this passed

2031
02:49:02,640 --> 02:49:09,920
and signed into law, it could be done by
March 1st if they want it done. And I I

2032
02:49:07,279 --> 02:49:15,439
think they do want it done. Um number
one, it it gets politicians elected. Um

2033
02:49:13,120 --> 02:49:20,479
and number two, it makes them uh
developers a lot of money. Who suffers

2034
02:49:18,319 --> 02:49:27,439
from that? The people that are here, the
taxpayers that are here. Um,

2035
02:49:24,800 --> 02:49:33,279
legally speaking, you know, we were
threatened tonight with a lawsuit. Well,

2036
02:49:30,160 --> 02:49:39,279
in Delaware, moratoriums are valid and
they're legal. The the basis of it is uh

2037
02:49:37,200 --> 02:49:44,479
you have to pass an ordinance, which
this hearing is designed to do. They got

2038
02:49:41,600 --> 02:49:49,600
take a vote on passing an ordinance. Um,
has to be 6 months or shorter in

2039
02:49:47,040 --> 02:49:54,000
duration. You have to have a finding of
necessity. Well, after I get done

2040
02:49:52,560 --> 02:49:58,560
talking, and when I got done talking
before, I don't see how you could not

2041
02:49:56,640 --> 02:50:02,560
say we don't have a necessity. We don't
have any idea what our budget is going

2042
02:50:00,880 --> 02:50:08,560
to look like. We don't have any idea
what our sewer rates, our water rates,

2043
02:50:04,880 --> 02:50:12,240
our transfer tax, our employees. We know
none of that going into the budget cycle

2044
02:50:10,319 --> 02:50:16,560
because if if this passes in its
entirety, it basically overrides

2045
02:50:14,720 --> 02:50:22,319
everything we do. They're talking about
coming up with a UN or a standardized

2046
02:50:19,520 --> 02:50:26,160
building code um and zoning regulations
for the state of Delaware that will

2047
02:50:23,840 --> 02:50:32,000
completely override everything we have.
So, do we need zoning employees uh

2048
02:50:30,319 --> 02:50:36,880
building inspectors if we have a
statewide um code that we have to abide

2049
02:50:35,200 --> 02:50:41,920
by?
I don't know. I'm I'm interested in in

2050
02:50:40,479 --> 02:50:46,399
working with all of these people who
said they're willing to work with us.

2051
02:50:43,920 --> 02:50:51,680
Um, but what I didn't hear tonight from
any of them is who's taking care of our

2052
02:50:49,359 --> 02:50:57,600
residents, the ones that that elected us
to serve here. Um, again, I don't think

2053
02:50:55,279 --> 02:51:01,920
anybody is against affordable housing.
Just like the young lady said, I don't

2054
02:50:59,439 --> 02:51:08,560
even think we know. We may we may have
50 60 70% of what they want us to do

2055
02:51:05,680 --> 02:51:12,880
already in affordable housing. I sent
you guys an article a couple of weeks

2056
02:51:10,640 --> 02:51:19,040
ago about New Jersey. New Jersey has
been going through this exact same thing

2057
02:51:14,240 --> 02:51:24,000
for 50 years. Um, it's mandated by their
legislation that each town has to build

2058
02:51:21,600 --> 02:51:28,640
a certain amount of of affordable
housing units based on the basically the

2059
02:51:26,399 --> 02:51:33,680
same definition that the task force
gave. Um, I don't think they came up

2060
02:51:30,800 --> 02:51:39,760
with anything new. um basically copied
off what New Jersey um

2061
02:51:37,760 --> 02:51:46,319
and
the town in in New Jersey in that letter

2062
02:51:42,399 --> 02:51:51,120
was saying in order to build 171
affordable housing units with the

2063
02:51:48,720 --> 02:51:55,840
handouts that were given. The town needs
to build an additional 800 units that

2064
02:51:53,760 --> 02:52:01,200
are full pay. In other words, people who
work and pay their taxes and and pay the

2065
02:51:58,800 --> 02:52:05,840
transfer tax and pay their school taxes
and everything, you have to have 800

2066
02:52:02,880 --> 02:52:13,920
units new on the books to support that
171 that you build in affordable housing

2067
02:52:08,399 --> 02:52:18,080
when you factor in the giveaways. Um,
and again, like I said last time, these

2068
02:52:16,880 --> 02:52:22,399
houses aren't going to be built in
Rahub. They're not going to be built in

2069
02:52:20,000 --> 02:52:25,439
in Bethany, Dewey Beach. They're not
going to get close to down there. They

2070
02:52:24,160 --> 02:52:31,600
might throw up a few here and a few
there outside of town, but 45,000 units

2071
02:52:28,960 --> 02:52:37,040
by 2030 is going to be right up and down
the 113 corridor stretcher from

2072
02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:41,520
Selbyville to do over. And what is our
quota going to be? It may it may not be

2073
02:52:39,040 --> 02:52:46,160
171, it might be 1,700.
So if we have to build, you know, 100

2074
02:52:43,760 --> 02:52:50,080
houses or a thousand houses, how many
other houses do we have to build to make

2075
02:52:47,920 --> 02:52:55,600
up for the lost tax revenue, the last
lost water rates, um sewer rates,

2076
02:52:53,279 --> 02:53:01,760
transfer tax?
I think a five or six month moratorum to

2077
02:52:59,520 --> 02:53:06,240
allow us to find out number one what the
legislature is going to do and whether

2078
02:53:03,520 --> 02:53:11,120
this comes to fruition at all. Um and
number two, how it's going to affect our

2079
02:53:08,080 --> 02:53:16,399
our budget and our employees. So, the
way I'm looking at this, you know, these

2080
02:53:14,399 --> 02:53:20,800
some of these pe um people that are
opposed to my proposal, they're looking

2081
02:53:19,040 --> 02:53:26,720
out for their jobs. You know, they're
looking out for um the future residents

2082
02:53:23,680 --> 02:53:30,720
of the town um or any town in Sussex
County. I'm looking out for the for the

2083
02:53:28,640 --> 02:53:35,920
existing residents here who's going to
have their water rates risen, their

2084
02:53:32,640 --> 02:53:41,520
their sewer rates, their taxes raised to
be able to to handle this. So,

2085
02:53:40,160 --> 02:53:46,240
it's up to you guys what do we go
through with having the ordinance

2086
02:53:43,120 --> 02:53:50,399
proposed and um and voted on next month.
But, um again, I think if this was

2087
02:53:48,800 --> 02:53:54,479
publicized,
you probably get 3,000 people here. And

2088
02:53:52,560 --> 02:54:00,160
I'll guarantee you 95% of them would be
a be in favor of the moratorum. And this

2089
02:53:56,720 --> 02:54:04,640
is a very modest moratorum.
>> Mr. Mayor, do we need a motion to post a

2090
02:54:02,560 --> 02:54:08,399
public hearing before we start
discussion?

2091
02:54:05,920 --> 02:54:11,200
» Yes. Yes.
you making that motion?

2092
02:54:09,680 --> 02:54:13,120
» I'll make a motion to close the public
hearing.

2093
02:54:12,960 --> 02:54:16,479
I'll
>> second it. All

2094
02:54:14,640 --> 02:54:18,160
» in favor say I.
>> I.

2095
02:54:17,200 --> 02:54:24,080
» I.
>> Any opposed?

2096
02:54:21,200 --> 02:54:27,960
Public hearing is now closed. Discussion
can continue though. Council

2097
02:54:39,120 --> 02:54:46,560
I have a couple of points that I was
going to ask Marty. Um, your proposal

2098
02:54:43,840 --> 02:54:53,840
for the six-month moratorum is based on
the final report that came out in April

2099
02:54:50,000 --> 02:54:59,840
2025. So, what happens just just the
first question, what happens in 6 months

2100
02:54:57,760 --> 02:55:03,120
when nothing happens? Are you going to
extend the moratorum? Is that going to

2101
02:55:01,520 --> 02:55:10,319
be your proposal?
>> No. Um I think if if by midFebruary or

2102
02:55:06,960 --> 02:55:13,600
1st of February it it's apparent that uh
you know these these proposals aren't

2103
02:55:12,000 --> 02:55:22,080
going to go through we can end a
mortorium at that point in time. If we

2104
02:55:16,080 --> 02:55:27,600
get to June and um the entire package
passes the worst nightmare passes uh and

2105
02:55:25,680 --> 02:55:34,000
we don't know what we're doing as far as
budget-wise goes. Yeah, I might I might

2106
02:55:30,399 --> 02:55:38,319
consider another uh six-month mortorium
until we get our house in order.

2107
02:55:36,640 --> 02:55:42,160
» Well, it's interesting because you keep
saying that you're not against

2108
02:55:40,080 --> 02:55:47,760
affordable housing. That's not what your
focus is, but that's really what your

2109
02:55:44,960 --> 02:55:53,200
presentation and your linguistics
>> talking about. But just to let you know,

2110
02:55:50,880 --> 02:55:58,720
um, Millsboro, the town of Millsboro has
at least five what you would call

2111
02:55:55,840 --> 02:56:03,359
affordable housing developments already
in it. Um,

2112
02:56:01,120 --> 02:56:07,840
» that counter would
The problem is they want 45,000 new.

2113
02:56:06,560 --> 02:56:13,200
They already count them. They want
45,000 new, which we're going to have.

2114
02:56:11,520 --> 02:56:18,000
We're It appears we're going to have a
quot we have to fill. There's nothing on

2115
02:56:16,000 --> 02:56:22,479
the books and there's nothing mandated
down. I have to say that I do agree with

2116
02:56:20,240 --> 02:56:26,240
the one
very

2117
02:56:24,080 --> 02:56:29,359
sound point that Kimberly brought up
which is we need to work with a

2118
02:56:27,600 --> 02:56:33,760
consensus. We need to work with other
towns. Going out on a limb and saying

2119
02:56:32,160 --> 02:56:39,359
we're going to do this or we're going to
do that just makes you out on a limb.

2120
02:56:37,040 --> 02:56:45,680
You're in the focus point but you're
working with other towns. Well, I would

2121
02:56:42,000 --> 02:56:50,319
ask how do we expect um Matt, Jamie,
Ashley to come up with some budget

2122
02:56:47,840 --> 02:56:53,520
figures in the middle of this when they
don't know what our transfer tax is

2123
02:56:51,760 --> 02:56:57,120
going to be, when they don't know what
>> nothing's been proposed. It would be no

2124
02:56:55,359 --> 02:57:00,880
different than if Georgetown was coming
up with a budget proposal or the

2125
02:56:58,960 --> 02:57:05,520
transfer tax or anything or Lewis was
doing that. It wouldn't be any

2126
02:57:02,080 --> 02:57:10,880
different. If Frankfurt was doing it, it
would be the same exact thing. So, I

2127
02:57:08,080 --> 02:57:16,800
mean, we all got these we all got the
April 2025

2128
02:57:13,439 --> 02:57:22,960
affordable housing thing and that you're
going off. So, I'm not really I don't

2129
02:57:20,720 --> 02:57:26,720
understand why we need to do it just in
Millsboro. Why can't we work

2130
02:57:24,560 --> 02:57:29,760
collectively with the other counts is
what I'm saying to you first.

2131
02:57:28,160 --> 02:57:34,319
» Well, I don't I don't go to the seed
meetings. I you know, I don't I'm not on

2132
02:57:32,880 --> 02:57:38,399
you I don't know many of the town
managers or other town councils. I don't

2133
02:57:36,479 --> 02:57:41,439
know what their thinking is. I do know
that Dagsboro

2134
02:57:40,160 --> 02:57:45,680
because [clears throat] of the impending
growth that they're seeing put a

2135
02:57:43,120 --> 02:57:50,319
six-month moratorum on it um so that
they could catch up. Same thing with

2136
02:57:47,680 --> 02:57:55,200
Frederica. Same thing with Kent County.
Um talk about nebulous concepts, you

2137
02:57:53,680 --> 02:58:00,160
know, just keeping up with growth. We've
got that times 10 because and and this

2138
02:57:58,160 --> 02:58:04,720
isn't against affordable housing. It's
about the polit the policies that are

2139
02:58:02,479 --> 02:58:08,160
coming out of do that's going to force
us to do it and it's going to force us

2140
02:58:06,800 --> 02:58:12,000
to adjust to it. It's not about
affordable housing. If they just had

2141
02:58:09,920 --> 02:58:16,880
free market, you know, the state's going
to give them x amount of dollars to

2142
02:58:14,319 --> 02:58:25,920
build and we encourage town Millsboro
to, you know, lower their their uh um

2143
02:58:22,000 --> 02:58:30,000
um transfer tax or their um fees for for
developing. We could consider that, but

2144
02:58:28,240 --> 02:58:33,920
that's that doesn't appear to me be
what's going to happen here. They've

2145
02:58:31,520 --> 02:58:37,600
they're passing this peace meal
obviously, but point by point by point.

2146
02:58:36,880 --> 02:58:42,160
Um,
>> I understand you're having a reaction to

2147
02:58:39,680 --> 02:58:48,640
something that's coming down the road.
You're being trying to be anticipatory,

2148
02:58:44,479 --> 02:58:53,680
right? So, I I'm I throw this at you.
In the past two months, we've had in the

2149
02:58:50,880 --> 02:58:59,520
past few months, we've had two very
large construction groundbreaking

2150
02:58:56,640 --> 02:59:04,720
projects. One by Title Health and one by
BB. Now I personally am going to tell

2151
02:59:02,080 --> 02:59:11,680
you with this moratorum
both I guarantee you both the title

2152
02:59:08,640 --> 02:59:15,439
health and the BB projects are going to
have a problem

2153
02:59:13,760 --> 02:59:20,880
recruiting
staff, retaining staff and promising

2154
02:59:18,560 --> 02:59:26,000
staff anything because basically you're
saying to them we're not sure how to

2155
02:59:24,160 --> 02:59:30,960
move forward. We're going to stop this
housing thing. In addition, it's going

2156
02:59:28,319 --> 02:59:37,279
to affect the staff that Jaime's looking
for or the staff the chief's looking

2157
02:59:33,520 --> 02:59:42,080
for. So, if you want to get people to
come to work in Millsboro, they have to

2158
02:59:39,520 --> 02:59:45,920
be able to afford to live here in
Millsboro.

2159
02:59:43,520 --> 02:59:51,840
» Well, not to be blunt, but that's not
our problem. If if if uh BB or uh Title

2160
02:59:49,840 --> 02:59:55,200
Health won't pay their employees enough
to afford the housing in the area,

2161
02:59:53,760 --> 03:00:00,479
perhaps they need to look at their pay
structure.

2162
02:59:56,960 --> 03:00:04,000
um a 1% decrease in mortgage rates. If
mortgage rates were three and a half%

2163
03:00:02,160 --> 03:00:06,880
the way they were four years ago, we
wouldn't even be having this

2164
03:00:04,880 --> 03:00:11,279
conversation, right? Mortgage rates are
7% takes a lot of people out of the

2165
03:00:09,439 --> 03:00:14,560
equation. Not just
>> But you're you're not concerned.

2166
03:00:13,680 --> 03:00:18,479
» No, I'm saying
>> be able to recruit staff is what you're

2167
03:00:16,960 --> 03:00:22,160
saying. It's it's
>> perhaps they need to evaluate their pay

2168
03:00:20,240 --> 03:00:26,000
structure. If they're hiring people that
can't afford to live here, maybe they

2169
03:00:24,160 --> 03:00:30,479
need to look at their pay structure. Why
should it be all the the existing

2170
03:00:27,600 --> 03:00:36,080
taxpayers of Delaware or Millsboro to
fund that? Why why are we building

2171
03:00:33,439 --> 03:00:39,760
affordable housing in Millsboro that
will feed the restaurants in Rahobit and

2172
03:00:37,920 --> 03:00:43,600
Dwey? Why aren't they building them? You
know why they're not doing? Because acre

2173
03:00:41,200 --> 03:00:48,720
land sales between$1 and5 million. It
blows it out of the water. So where's it

2174
03:00:45,439 --> 03:00:52,920
going to be? It's going to be here.
And we better prepare for it.

2175
03:00:59,520 --> 03:01:07,439
How many housing units do we have on the
books right now that that are not under

2176
03:01:04,800 --> 03:01:12,000
construction, but they've been through
preliminary? We're in the couple of

2177
03:01:09,600 --> 03:01:15,040
thousand.
>> I I would have to defer to Matt. I mean,

2178
03:01:13,760 --> 03:01:19,040
we do have a grid, but that wasn't
something we were asked to prepare for

2179
03:01:16,319 --> 03:01:24,000
tonight. That's what I want to kind of
be built having been built.

2180
03:01:21,840 --> 03:01:28,880
» Yes, they've been approved.
>> It would be it'd be the southside

2181
03:01:25,520 --> 03:01:32,359
plantation lakes and u and town lakes.
So, you're probably

2182
03:01:32,880 --> 03:01:39,200
about a thousand or so.
>> Oh, you got several developments that

2183
03:01:35,840 --> 03:01:42,640
aren't built out too, right?
>> Most of them are

2184
03:01:41,279 --> 03:01:46,880
Oh, and Summers and Chase. Sorry.
Summers and Chase,

2185
03:01:44,720 --> 03:01:52,479
1500. So, Yeah.
>> So, so six-month moratorum is not going

2186
03:01:50,080 --> 03:01:56,080
to impact anything
>> because the way the way they're building

2187
03:01:54,160 --> 03:02:00,560
these houses, you're talking about 150
or 200 per year.

2188
03:01:59,040 --> 03:02:03,200
I mean, the different developments, if
they're working simultaneously, maybe a

2189
03:02:02,240 --> 03:02:09,040
little bit more.
>> So, six month break is is not going to

2190
03:02:06,560 --> 03:02:16,479
stop the wheels of progress. And and to
be brutally honest, if if a developer

2191
03:02:14,240 --> 03:02:21,359
is going to invest a million dollar, $10
million, $50 million into a development,

2192
03:02:19,279 --> 03:02:24,240
I would hope he has enough smarts, and
I'm pretty sure he does, to pay

2193
03:02:23,040 --> 03:02:28,640
attention to what's going on in
politics, either in in the city he wants

2194
03:02:26,240 --> 03:02:33,520
to build in the county, or the state.
And any developer that takes a look at

2195
03:02:30,880 --> 03:02:38,000
this affordable housing
is going to think one of two things. Um,

2196
03:02:35,920 --> 03:02:42,000
I'm going to wait until there's more
certainty in the market because I don't

2197
03:02:39,680 --> 03:02:46,160
know why would I go out and spend, you
know, thousands of dollars on

2198
03:02:43,279 --> 03:02:50,720
application fees and and and manh hours
coming up with a a proposal to be

2199
03:02:48,000 --> 03:02:54,640
approved by the city council when 3
months from now that proposal may not

2200
03:02:52,800 --> 03:03:00,160
mean anything.
or they're thinking there's enough money

2201
03:02:56,479 --> 03:03:05,439
flowing down from the state that I my
required rate of return of 10% or 12% or

2202
03:03:03,439 --> 03:03:09,760
whatever it is I'm going to make my
retired rate of concern

2203
03:03:07,920 --> 03:03:13,680
they if not they would stick money in
the bank right you know 5% CD or

2204
03:03:12,000 --> 03:03:17,279
something so they have a required rate
of return that they need to make and

2205
03:03:15,840 --> 03:03:21,520
they're going to get it whether they get
it from the unfortunate people that have

2206
03:03:19,760 --> 03:03:27,520
to live in some some type of environment
which is not great or they're going to

2207
03:03:23,680 --> 03:03:33,560
get it from from the state or the
municipalities

2208
03:03:29,200 --> 03:03:33,560
through higher rates for our citizens.

2209
03:03:33,600 --> 03:03:41,359
So I would think a developer a six-month
mortorium going to affect any developer

2210
03:03:38,960 --> 03:03:47,040
as far as coming in here or anywhere in
the state. I I would think there they

2211
03:03:43,520 --> 03:03:51,920
would be leading the charge to unless
they're got some kind of deal under the

2212
03:03:49,359 --> 03:03:55,760
table to get some certainty on their
plans. Why would you spend that much

2213
03:03:53,920 --> 03:03:59,279
money when you don't know what the
zoning and and ordinances are going to

2214
03:03:57,279 --> 03:04:03,520
be anywhere?
>> I personally think that if we're

2215
03:04:01,520 --> 03:04:09,520
complaining about the overreach that
goes on at the legislature and do

2216
03:04:07,359 --> 03:04:13,520
how dare we decide that we're going to
do a moratorum, isn't that a little

2217
03:04:11,760 --> 03:04:18,880
overreach on our part?
>> No, I don't I don't The whole point

2218
03:04:16,479 --> 03:04:22,399
» complain about one and not see the other
point. Now the whole point in the

2219
03:04:20,319 --> 03:04:28,160
moratorum is for us to get through the
budget cycle to find out whether we need

2220
03:04:24,640 --> 03:04:32,399
to cut budget fire employees.
I don't have any answers. I don't know.

2221
03:04:30,960 --> 03:04:36,880
But if if this comes down in its
totality, I guarantee one thing. We

2222
03:04:34,880 --> 03:04:42,800
won't be buying 11 vehicles this year in
the budget. We won't be you know

2223
03:04:38,800 --> 03:04:46,800
increasing pay uh you know tremendously.
And we may have to look at laying some

2224
03:04:44,479 --> 03:04:51,200
people off because we can't function
without that transfer tax. we can't

2225
03:04:48,800 --> 03:04:56,479
function. Impact fees, we just increased
them last year, right? If those impact

2226
03:04:53,600 --> 03:05:00,160
fees go away for a thousand or 2,000
homes, how much have we got to jack it

2227
03:04:58,240 --> 03:05:03,680
up on the next house that that pays the
full boat?

2228
03:05:02,000 --> 03:05:08,479
This isn't about affordable housing.
This is about a policy coming from do

2229
03:05:06,160 --> 03:05:12,240
stuffed down our throats that we need to
prepare for and act like it's coming.

2230
03:05:10,399 --> 03:05:17,080
Whether it's coming or not, we need to
be prepared for it in my opinion.

2231
03:05:24,240 --> 03:05:32,720
you know, our our responsibility is the
is first and foremost what we swore an

2232
03:05:29,359 --> 03:05:38,000
oath to is the people of Millsboro.
Um, our second responsibility is to the

2233
03:05:35,760 --> 03:05:43,760
employees of Millsboro.
You know, our third responsibility

2234
03:05:40,800 --> 03:05:47,760
obviously is to promote affordable
housing, all types of housing, jobs,

2235
03:05:46,000 --> 03:05:51,120
everything.
But you can't flip it on its head. You

2236
03:05:49,920 --> 03:05:56,319
can't say you got to take care of this
over here and forget about your budget,

2237
03:05:53,120 --> 03:06:00,560
forget about your employees. Um, it
won't work.

2238
03:05:59,279 --> 03:06:06,399
And I I don't think we'd be doing our
fiduciary duty to our citizens, but not

2239
03:06:04,319 --> 03:06:12,240
taking this serious and prepare for it
and hope that it doesn't come.

2240
03:06:10,319 --> 03:06:17,680
And again, it's not about affordable
housing. Take all that affordable

2241
03:06:14,000 --> 03:06:22,479
housing we can get, but we can't not get
a transfer tax. We can't not get a tax

2242
03:06:20,080 --> 03:06:26,479
payment. We got to run the town on
something. and and if and if you have a

2243
03:06:24,800 --> 03:06:31,680
certain percentage of population that's
not paying, you've got to increase it on

2244
03:06:29,040 --> 03:06:36,319
everybody else. It's it's it's a zero
sum game. I don't see Delaware, the

2245
03:06:34,800 --> 03:06:43,479
state coming out saying they're going to
make Millsboro whole for our transfer

2246
03:06:38,720 --> 03:06:43,479
tax. That's not in the proposal.

2247
03:06:49,520 --> 03:06:58,880
Have we looked at what a six-month
moratorum would do to our budget?

2248
03:06:57,120 --> 03:07:01,200
» Nothing.
>> Well, why would it have anything to do

2249
03:07:00,000 --> 03:07:06,800
with our budget?
>> Well, right now we're paying

2250
03:07:03,520 --> 03:07:11,439
» $300 application fee to
How much does it cost for somebody to

2251
03:07:08,640 --> 03:07:15,920
apply for a preliminary approval?
>> Thousand bucks. I think it's 750 or a

2252
03:07:14,240 --> 03:07:19,200
thousand.
>> Well, I'm talking about the internet

2253
03:07:18,080 --> 03:07:25,200
fees.
>> Well, somebody comes in with a housing

2254
03:07:21,760 --> 03:07:28,560
project today for preliminary approval
that's not going to be built in 3 months

2255
03:07:26,640 --> 03:07:32,399
or four months. It'd be lucky built in
two or three years. So, it's not going

2256
03:07:30,399 --> 03:07:38,240
to have any effect on that budgetary
wise at all.

2257
03:07:34,880 --> 03:07:41,920
» This is what I have a problem with.
We say it's not going to happen for two

2258
03:07:39,520 --> 03:07:45,920
or three years that we need the impact
fees otherwise we can't balance our

2259
03:07:43,520 --> 03:07:48,160
budget.
So we're going to have a mortorium for

2260
03:07:47,120 --> 03:07:52,000
six months to figure it out. Why don't
we just figure it out in lie of a

2261
03:07:50,880 --> 03:07:56,000
mortorium because it's not going to
happen for 6 months. We haven't we've

2262
03:07:54,080 --> 03:07:59,520
talked about this for 3 months and we've
not sat down to have a budget meeting

2263
03:07:57,359 --> 03:08:05,439
and say okay let's assume the worst case
scenario. Here's our plan.

2264
03:08:02,640 --> 03:08:10,479
I mean to get the attention of do we
have gotten it um and we were successful

2265
03:08:09,200 --> 03:08:15,520
at that. I don't know if it's a positive
thing or a negative thing but I to say

2266
03:08:13,359 --> 03:08:20,160
in one sentence that 6 months are not
going to affect us in any way because

2267
03:08:18,000 --> 03:08:23,200
everything we got 1500 houses on the
books that we got permits for and

2268
03:08:21,760 --> 03:08:27,760
they're going to continue and if a new
house comes in it's not it's going to

2269
03:08:24,479 --> 03:08:32,399
take 18 months before they get started.
6 months isn't going to do anything.

2270
03:08:29,760 --> 03:08:35,680
It's just it's just kicking the can down
the road. What we need to do is get to

2271
03:08:34,720 --> 03:08:41,200
work.
>> Well, 6 months does two things. It it

2272
03:08:38,319 --> 03:08:46,960
gets us through the this budget cycle
and hopefully bring some attention as uh

2273
03:08:44,080 --> 03:08:50,000
Councilwoman Khan said that others will
join in.

2274
03:08:48,160 --> 03:08:53,120
» I would make it I would make a
suggestion that we assume the worst case

2275
03:08:51,680 --> 03:08:58,399
scenario and we use that to develop our
budget cycle. And if it doesn't happen,

2276
03:08:56,080 --> 03:09:02,479
we have saved the taxpayers of the town
of Millsboro money.

2277
03:09:00,720 --> 03:09:05,920
» But we don't we don't know what it's
going to look like. So we how can we

2278
03:09:04,000 --> 03:09:08,000
plan for something we don't know?
>> 6 months we're not going to know what it

2279
03:09:07,040 --> 03:09:11,040
looks like either.
>> Well, 6 months we'll know if it's going

2280
03:09:09,359 --> 03:09:15,200
to pass this this this legislative
session.

2281
03:09:11,680 --> 03:09:18,240
» I don't It'll pass it. So what then?
>> We've we're still in budget cycle. We

2282
03:09:16,880 --> 03:09:21,680
don't have to pass our budget to July
1st.

2283
03:09:19,279 --> 03:09:24,960
» But it it's not going to affect us for
the next budget cycle. No, it will it

2284
03:09:23,760 --> 03:09:27,760
will affect us.
>> How many homes are going to get how many

2285
03:09:26,399 --> 03:09:33,680
homes are going? Six months from now we
approve a a subdivision.

2286
03:09:30,880 --> 03:09:36,880
It takes them that we start the process
to approve a subdivision. Takes them two

2287
03:09:35,520 --> 03:09:41,520
or three months before they get the
second approval. Then it takes them

2288
03:09:39,279 --> 03:09:44,880
groundwork and site work and your impact
fees are that they're not going to hit

2289
03:09:43,200 --> 03:09:51,200
until 2028.
>> So it's not going to be the 26 27 or

2290
03:09:48,160 --> 03:09:55,200
2728, but it's going to be the 28 and
beyond. that I just don't maybe I'm

2291
03:09:53,920 --> 03:09:59,120
wrong, but I just don't see the
six-month mortorium having any positive

2292
03:09:57,600 --> 03:10:04,000
impact
um to help us. I think what we need to

2293
03:10:01,200 --> 03:10:08,640
do is sit down and say, "Hey,
um I hate home rule. I hate that that

2294
03:10:06,399 --> 03:10:11,200
that the big people are looking out on
us, but how do we get prepared for when

2295
03:10:10,240 --> 03:10:13,920
it's going to happen?" Because if it
didn't happen this year, it's probably

2296
03:10:12,640 --> 03:10:17,840
going to happen next year. Mhm.
>> Mhm.

2297
03:10:14,319 --> 03:10:22,479
» So why not why not just,
you know,

2298
03:10:20,160 --> 03:10:28,240
why not just assume it's going to happen
and prepare accordingly?

2299
03:10:24,960 --> 03:10:34,240
» I agree with Ron. We should look at it.
Look at it. It's coming down the road.

2300
03:10:30,000 --> 03:10:41,200
But I will tell you, I think it was Mr.
was it who said it. By us putting a

2301
03:10:38,000 --> 03:10:44,240
sixmonth moratorum, what it does is it
puts the bull's eyee on us. We already

2302
03:10:43,200 --> 03:10:47,040
did that.
>> Yeah, we

2303
03:10:44,880 --> 03:10:52,640
» So that's that's what you're doing.
>> So I mean we there's no reason for that.

2304
03:10:49,920 --> 03:10:56,240
» So it puts a bullseye on that. You think
that the legislature will pass the

2305
03:10:54,640 --> 03:11:00,000
Millsboro
law and everybody else escape? I don't

2306
03:10:59,439 --> 03:11:03,200
think so.
>> Suggest we make a motion and vote on

2307
03:11:01,520 --> 03:11:12,640
this and just
>> Yeah. Well, the the I don't think Matt,

2308
03:11:09,040 --> 03:11:18,080
Jamie, or us want to go into the budget
cycle preparing this budget based on the

2309
03:11:15,359 --> 03:11:21,520
worst case scenario
because we're going to be firing people,

2310
03:11:19,920 --> 03:11:27,600
you know, April and May. I
>> I don't I don't foresee that happening.

2311
03:11:26,319 --> 03:11:31,520
» We're still going to get We still have
>> Where's the Where's Where's the impact

2312
03:11:29,359 --> 03:11:34,399
fees coming from? transfer tax
>> on the 1500 homes that we're going to

2313
03:11:32,960 --> 03:11:37,040
build. None of these homes in the next 6
months are going to start. First of all,

2314
03:11:35,600 --> 03:11:41,920
there's no subdivisions that I'm aware
of and have looked at the zoning map.

2315
03:11:39,760 --> 03:11:46,240
There's do we even know how many
subdivisions there are left to be built

2316
03:11:43,600 --> 03:11:49,600
that's owned residential?
>> That's right.

2317
03:11:46,640 --> 03:11:54,399
» Does anybody know that answer right now?
>> Not just council members, do we know the

2318
03:11:51,920 --> 03:11:57,520
number that's out there that can can
come in that's already zoned that they

2319
03:11:56,000 --> 03:12:01,040
can come in and ask for approval?
>> Well, there

2320
03:11:58,080 --> 03:12:06,160
» there's very few. There's lots that are
in the town's limits that have zoning.

2321
03:12:04,640 --> 03:12:08,319
» There's very few.
>> Yeah, there's really at this point not

2322
03:12:08,000 --> 03:12:11,359
that
>> white farm project. How many homes are

2323
03:12:09,920 --> 03:12:14,000
» white farm projects is already in the
works?

2324
03:12:12,479 --> 03:12:16,960
» They haven't come in for approval.
>> They've come in they submitted stuff

2325
03:12:15,520 --> 03:12:19,760
this month.
>> They've submitted. It just depends on

2326
03:12:18,640 --> 03:12:24,640
where you draw the line to where the
moratorum is. Yeah, there there's a good

2327
03:12:22,479 --> 03:12:28,120
reason to to pass the moratorum in my
opinion. Oh.

2328
03:12:29,520 --> 03:12:36,720
Well, I've I've said all I want to say
if you want to make the motion. Um I I

2329
03:12:34,479 --> 03:12:41,040
would just
I don't know how that I pray this

2330
03:12:38,800 --> 03:12:46,960
doesn't come down the pike. I'm afraid
that it's going to in some form or

2331
03:12:43,120 --> 03:12:50,960
fashion and
I have no clue what our ordinances,

2332
03:12:48,720 --> 03:12:53,680
budget, police department, any of it's
going to look like. But if we're going

2333
03:12:52,160 --> 03:12:57,680
to prepare this budget cycle for the
worst, it's going to be a very slim

2334
03:12:56,080 --> 03:13:05,120
budget.
>> My other concern is is that the the

2335
03:13:01,359 --> 03:13:10,240
state has been so far overreaching in
certain areas that if we did a

2336
03:13:08,319 --> 03:13:15,680
moratorum,
I think that they could just tell you

2337
03:13:14,160 --> 03:13:19,680
too bad,
>> you're getting it anyway.

2338
03:13:17,120 --> 03:13:25,920
» I agree. I don't think they care. you're
not at wits end about us.

2339
03:13:23,680 --> 03:13:30,319
If they if they wanted to solve the
affordability issue, there's two or

2340
03:13:28,960 --> 03:13:34,160
three ways that I won't bring up here,
but there's two or three ways to solve

2341
03:13:31,760 --> 03:13:40,000
it just like that. It's not about that.
It's about, you know, what politicians

2342
03:13:36,560 --> 03:13:44,080
get elected, who palms get greased, and
who has to pay. And it's usually the

2343
03:13:41,920 --> 03:13:47,080
honest, hardworking people that have to
pay.

2344
03:13:55,439 --> 03:14:00,000
What do we need a motion to to pass the
mortorium?

2345
03:13:58,319 --> 03:14:04,000
» What? What's your pleasure? Yes, we
would need one.

2346
03:14:01,439 --> 03:14:05,359
» Well, we I I thought we needed an
ordinance.

2347
03:14:04,800 --> 03:14:08,640
» An ordinance.
>> We need a motion to either go for an

2348
03:14:07,040 --> 03:14:12,399
ordinance or to not go for an ordinance.
>> Yeah, that's true.

2349
03:14:09,760 --> 03:14:19,279
» Yeah.
If if anyone is inclined to pursue an

2350
03:14:15,600 --> 03:14:24,000
ordinance, then I'm going to need a a
well articulated public purpose and some

2351
03:14:21,760 --> 03:14:28,479
other details about what would be
included in the ordinance in order to

2352
03:14:25,520 --> 03:14:33,120
draft something um and keep it within
the legal constraints of what would be

2353
03:14:30,640 --> 03:14:38,560
an appropriate moratorum. So if the
motion is to pursue a moratorum and to

2354
03:14:36,239 --> 03:14:41,760
draft an ordinance, please make sure you
cover those bases in your motion. And

2355
03:14:40,399 --> 03:14:44,960
Mary, that would have to come back as a
second public hearing with the exact

2356
03:14:44,239 --> 03:14:50,399
language. Correct.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

2357
03:14:48,399 --> 03:14:54,880
I It was my understanding tonight was to
explore the possibility and to have a

2358
03:14:52,880 --> 03:14:59,120
public hearing to ask for input.
>> I'll make a motion that the town of

2359
03:14:56,479 --> 03:15:03,074
Millsboro does not pursue a moratorum on
housing.

2360
03:15:01,055 --> 03:15:03,074
[clears throat]

2361
03:15:04,319 --> 03:15:08,040
» I'll second that.

2362
03:15:08,960 --> 03:15:14,160
All in favor say I.
>> I. I.

2363
03:15:11,439 --> 03:15:17,520
» I. I.....................
Any opposed.

2364
03:15:15,680 --> 03:15:21,040
» Opposed.
Opposed.

2365
03:15:19,680 --> 03:15:27,520
» Do we want to do a roll call?
>> Yes, please.

2366
03:15:23,439 --> 03:15:32,479
» Um. Councilwoman Dilva. Yes or no?
>> I'm opposed to the moratorum.

2367
03:15:29,760 --> 03:15:37,439
» That would be a yes.
Um, Councilwoman Khan, yes or no?

2368
03:15:34,640 --> 03:15:41,520
» Yes.
Councilman O'Neal, yes or no?

2369
03:15:39,200 --> 03:15:45,595
» Yes.
>> Uh, Councilman

2370
03:15:43,439 --> 03:15:50,160
Mason, I'm sorry, it's getting
[laughter]

2371
03:15:46,880 --> 03:15:52,000
» so sorry. Um, Councilman Presley, yes or
no?

2372
03:15:50,479 --> 03:15:56,080
» No.
>> And Mayor McKith,

2373
03:15:53,840 --> 03:16:00,239
» no.
>> So, we have four yes votes and two no

2374
03:15:58,479 --> 03:16:04,359
votes.
>> Motion carries.

2375
03:16:00,960 --> 03:16:04,359
» Motion carries.

2376
03:16:07,439 --> 03:16:11,319
We have a motion to adjurnn.

2377
03:16:11,680 --> 03:16:16,960
» So moved.
>> Second.

2378
03:16:14,479 --> 03:16:16,960
All in favor.