1 00:06:59,660 --> 00:07:05,680 The Stark Preservation Commission meeting, thank you for joining, our meeting is being held the 2 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:16,220 teams and in person in the council chambers conference room. It is September 2, at 6 o'clock PM and I 3 00:07:16,220 --> 00:07:22,880 call this meeting to order. During the meeting, when I call for public comment, if you are attending 4 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,800 In person, please raise your hand. 5 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,280 If you are attending via computer, device, or phone, please use the raise. 6 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:38,680 This lower-hand feature to let me know you wish to be recognized. I'll call on people in the meeting room first and then our virtual attendees. 7 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:46,460 For virtual attendees, our meeting host will allow you to talk and then you'll need to unmute your mic. 8 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:59,860 If you are participating by computer, I'll call your name, the name you have entered when you joined the meeting. If you are participating by phone, I'll call on you by reading the last two digits of your phone number. 9 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:06,400 If you have joined us on the phone today, you can raise and lower your hand by pressing star 5 and mute. 10 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:17,040 I think that's supposed to say you can raise and lower your hand by pressing star 5 and mute and unmute by using star 6. 11 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:22,100 We'll start the meeting with a roll called to take attendance in a establish a quorum. 12 00:08:27,950 --> 00:08:28,070 Here. 13 00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:28,150 Hello, sir. 14 00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:30,870 Hello, sir. 15 00:08:30,870 --> 00:08:30,910 Here. 16 00:08:32,530 --> 00:08:32,810 Adler. 17 00:08:36,820 --> 00:08:37,100 Campbell. 18 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:38,540 Here. 19 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:40,180 Eater. 20 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:41,400 Here. 21 00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:43,160 Sobler. 22 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:43,980 Here. 23 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:45,640 Struggle. 24 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:48,640 Absent. 25 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:49,540 We have a quorum. 26 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:53,220 Fantastic. 27 00:08:53,460 --> 00:08:53,920 Thank you. 28 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:55,260 All right. 29 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,900 The next order of business is meeting minutes from our August 5th, 2026 meeting. 30 00:09:04,260 --> 00:09:06,940 Because everyone had a chance to review the meeting minutes. 31 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,140 I'll make a motion. 32 00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:12,090 That was right. 33 00:09:12,730 --> 00:09:13,030 So. 34 00:09:15,310 --> 00:09:17,790 I'll make a motion to approve the meeting. 35 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:19,150 Minutes is written. 36 00:09:23,830 --> 00:09:24,550 Second, the motion. 37 00:09:29,420 --> 00:09:29,600 Okay. 38 00:09:31,730 --> 00:09:32,650 The motion passes. 39 00:09:32,810 --> 00:09:33,850 Meeting minutes are approved. 40 00:09:34,890 --> 00:09:35,030 Right. 41 00:09:35,030 --> 00:09:36,050 The next sort of agenda. 42 00:09:36,430 --> 00:09:41,610 The next agenda item is public comment on items not on the agenda. 43 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:47,830 Is there anyone present who has items for public comment that are not on the agenda? 44 00:09:47,830 --> 00:09:48,530 All 45 00:09:53,970 --> 00:10:02,430 right, seeing none in the room, I will join online real quick and see if there's anyone there. 46 00:10:13,230 --> 00:10:15,210 It's not allowing me to join now. 47 00:10:15,370 --> 00:10:18,370 I don't know if staff can tell me if anyone online. 48 00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:20,650 I don't see any online. 49 00:10:24,370 --> 00:10:24,770 All right, 50 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,160 moving on. 51 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,480 Item number five, new business. 52 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,740 Do we have any agenda items for new business? 53 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,000 Not appear to be the case. 54 00:10:41,620 --> 00:10:43,060 All right, moving on. 55 00:10:43,340 --> 00:10:43,980 Old business. 56 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,880 The only agenda item I have listed for old business 57 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,960 is the ELTS Master Planning Update 58 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,560 and a presentation by MMW Architects. 59 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,100 If you'd like to approach the podium, 60 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:57,630 I will turn your microphone on. 61 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,960 Please state your name and spell it slowly for the record. 62 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:01,560 Thank you. 63 00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:12,020 My name is Susette Jensen, S-U-Z, E-T-T-E, J-E-N-S-E-N. 64 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,100 Madam Chair and members of the Board of the Historic Preservation Commission. 65 00:11:22,940 --> 00:11:24,080 My name is Susette Jensen. 66 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:31,840 I'm a member of the Benevolent and Protective Order of the Elx Helgate Lodge, number 383. 67 00:11:32,540 --> 00:11:34,440 This evening members of our lodge, 68 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:46,480 and MMW Architectural firm and Western Interstate Construction are in attendance to provide information and answer questions as to the building construction and remodel we wish to pursue. 69 00:11:47,940 --> 00:12:02,160 In 1911, the firm of Lincoln Hare of Great Falls, Montana was hired by the members of the Helgate Elx Lodge to design the iconic building, neoclassical building located at 120 North Petty Street. 70 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:09,620 John Gustaflink and Charles Sidney here were well-known for designing large public and quasi-public 71 00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:15,680 buildings throughout the state, including the wings of the Montana State House. At that time 72 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:21,660 they were perhaps the most prominent architects in the state of Montana. They also designed the 73 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:29,340 Board-style Masonic Lodge that is located between 120 and 136 East Broadway. We brought with us 74 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:33,200 The night architectural drawings and floor plans along with the pictures of the exterior 75 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:38,120 of the current building and the original building as designed in 1911. 76 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:45,020 The Helgate Elx Lodge was once the centerpiece of social activity in downtown Masula. 77 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,340 The first floor of the 1911 building was initially used as a showroom for the mercantile's 78 00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:53,200 farm implement division. 79 00:12:54,220 --> 00:13:01,600 Current Elx members are keenly aware that we need a more updated and attractive space to socialize and conduct our meetings. 80 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:14,320 Restoring the exterior and interior of our building is critical if we're to retain or to attract retail and our other community uses to provide income for our organization. 81 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:23,500 We believe our restored Helgate Elf's lodge will add to the vitality and vibrance of historic downtown 82 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:24,020 Mazula. 83 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:31,200 As we continue to pursue our dream to restore our historic building, we know your approval 84 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,060 is necessary. 85 00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:38,260 We are here tonight to answer your questions and explore what additional information you 86 00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:40,820 need to allow our project to move forward. 87 00:13:41,940 --> 00:13:42,640 Thank you. 88 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:51,100 Dave Elmore is here, and he has some additional history about the ox, if you'd like to hear him. 89 00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:51,340 Sure. 90 00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:53,060 You can provide some of that. 91 00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:56,260 Thank you. 92 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:57,640 Thank you. 93 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,360 I'm Dave Elmore, Secretary of the Museuel Hellgate Oxlodge. 94 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:06,560 My name is Dave E. E. E. L. M. O. R. E. 95 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,900 I just did some bullet points of the history of the building and the lodge itself. 96 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:24,760 In July 3rd of 1897, the Elf's received a Grand Lodge dispensation to hold meetings, which were held at Eddie Block Hall, or Knights of Pithias Hall, which later referred to as Elk Hall. 97 00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:33,360 The Grand Lodge Charterers dated May 12, 1898, and it was signed in Room 4 of the Florence Hotel. 98 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:40,540 The first exalted ruler or president of the OX was John Martin Keith, the ninth mayor of 99 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:48,160 Missouri. On March 22, 1902, 96 applicants were initiated bringing the large membership 100 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:55,790 to 300. June 14, 1904, a committee was appointed to secure a location for the OX Hall. 101 00:14:57,020 --> 00:14:59,980 July 12, 1904, 20 new members were 102 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:07,280 Administrative initiative, among them, Frank L. Warden. August 9, 1904, the building committee reported 103 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:14,300 that Mrs. Edward L. Bonner, except for her an offer of $5,000 to purchase the two lots on patty street 104 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:23,080 between front and main. At that same meeting, Frank H. Woodey, William L. Murphy and Fred Z. Stoddard, 105 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,520 were appointed to take necessary steps to incorporate the lodge. 106 00:15:28,340 --> 00:15:38,040 On March 27, 1906, Secretary James A. Walsh reported 329 members and $594.47 in cash. 107 00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:43,900 Your architectural firm Lincoln here was hired to design the building, which looked like this 108 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:47,180 in the 1930s, that collage over there. 109 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:59,740 Lincoln Air did many buildings on Montana, this is that said, including the state prison cell block number one. 110 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:08,060 The architectural drawings we have are dated July 3rd, 1910, and this is the original concept painting. 111 00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:16,730 The lies sold bonds raised capital and borrowed money to foot the $50,000 construction bill. 112 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:20,570 And it was dedicated in January 1st, 1912. 113 00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:24,810 The major remodel was completed in 1949. 114 00:16:25,450 --> 00:16:30,750 The building had 30 small apartments with common bathrooms, a spa, basketball court, shooting 115 00:16:30,750 --> 00:16:35,790 range, four lane bowling alley, two bars, a stage, dance floor, commercial kitchen, 116 00:16:36,090 --> 00:16:38,970 lobby, and a 2600 square foot lodge hall. 117 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,060 That's what we are dreaming is to get it back to this. 118 00:16:46,690 --> 00:16:50,030 Can you go back to the list of everything that was in the building? 119 00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:52,170 There was in the building? 120 00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:52,990 Yes. 121 00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:56,850 We had 30 small apartments. 122 00:16:57,170 --> 00:16:58,190 They had common bathrooms. 123 00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:03,350 A spa in the basement, steam room, so on. 124 00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:07,310 Basketball court, a shooting range, 125 00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:10,090 a four-lane bowling alley, 126 00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:14,730 two bars, a stage in dance floor, 127 00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:25,370 commercial kitchen, the lobby of the building, and our large mini-room, which was 2600 square feet. 128 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:39,520 My name is Jacob Wright, JACOB, WRIG-HT, with MMW Architects. 129 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,020 I'm going to staff you have a copy of the plans you can pull up from us in over. 130 00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:45,560 The plans that were sent over to 131 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:47,960 you. 132 00:17:48,140 --> 00:17:49,160 The reference point. 133 00:17:54,450 --> 00:18:03,890 Okay. Sorry about that. So did you guys on when we sent over the text? Do you guys have a chance to read the two primary bullet points that we wanted to discuss with you guys today? 134 00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:12,120 No, I was not sent any additional information and kind of what we see here. 135 00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:16,440 So if you have something, you can summarize. 136 00:18:16,660 --> 00:18:16,960 Okay. 137 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,380 Yeah, we'll keep it simple. 138 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:38,940 Sorry, I've received an email with plans attached to it and the two bullet points that Elx would like to bring up for discussion in regards to tonight's presentation. 139 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,320 Is that come from Elias? 140 00:18:44,010 --> 00:18:48,670 Is there any way you can send it to city staff so that they can get it up on the TV? 141 00:18:49,210 --> 00:18:51,450 We were all CC don't that look like? 142 00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:59,510 Okay, but I can't project it, so that would be the kicker. 143 00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:03,770 Cassie is also raising her hand online? 144 00:19:04,050 --> 00:19:06,390 Oh, maybe Cassie can share that'd be fantastic. 145 00:19:07,470 --> 00:19:12,470 Yeah, hi, Cassie prepared a planning manager, Elias is out, so I'm covering for them. 146 00:19:12,750 --> 00:19:20,910 I do not have the plans or that email, but if someone can afford it to me, I can provide my email and then share. 147 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:29,940 So I'm like, okay, plan, 148 00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:36,080 what's the best email to forward it to you? 149 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,500 Yeah, that's going to be a trip forward. 150 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,480 TRI, P-A-R-D-C. 151 00:19:43,580 --> 00:19:48,280 C-I-D-M-Z-L-A.M-T-D-I-U-S. 152 00:19:48,780 --> 00:19:49,820 Very long emails. 153 00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:02,600 That's T-R-I-P-A-R-D-C. 154 00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:04,460 Yeah, we're about the end of that. 155 00:20:14,540 --> 00:20:16,700 Believe it should be forwarded to you. 156 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:18,200 So it may take a second. 157 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,880 I will share it once I get it. 158 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,040 I can kind of just start rolling a little bit without the plans being up. 159 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:42,360 I think the primary and there's obviously this is what the Alex wanting to do is 160 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,920 it's going to be an of multi your multi stage remodel both into your next year. 161 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:52,400 Well, primarily into your, but we were starting why we're here today is we're starting to run 162 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,960 in some areas where it was going to start touching the exteriors. We want to have a conversation with you 163 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,700 guys to see what latitude they have and the work that they're going to do. And the primary 164 00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:06,140 The first question that we've kind of talked about over the last couple of years is the project has started to get some traction 165 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:14,980 is that granted the 1950s read model is now deemed historic and that's what the registry lists it but also being at the registry 166 00:21:15,620 --> 00:21:23,060 lists the 50s read models being an insensitive which at least from this side of the table we all agree with that the 50s being an insensitive treatment. 167 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:28,340 The goal of the off-slog is to return that to the 11th to the historic 1911. 168 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:36,360 So we have two historic precedents and is, is that, I guess, tenimal to the commission to 169 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:37,720 restore to the 1911. 170 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:40,340 And I guess that's the first point of discussion. 171 00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:43,260 We were just kind of wanting to hear you guys as input on. 172 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:46,480 All right. 173 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:54,740 So did you note that the National Register nomination indicates that the 1950s era 174 00:21:54,740 --> 00:22:02,120 renovations are historic. Yes, yeah, it is historic, yeah. Okay. 175 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:13,690 Did the information come up? 176 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,840 Do you send to a study include the National Instrumentation? 177 00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:21,250 No. 178 00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:40,130 I'm going to make a suggestion that some things get sent to us afterwards if that's okay. 179 00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:44,090 Yeah, especially the nomination that way you don't have to go get it right now. 180 00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:52,950 Yeah, I would recommend all the materials like the nomination and those sorts of things be sent to us. 181 00:22:52,950 --> 00:23:07,140 I think I'm going to note that I'm not entirely sure what our jurisdiction is over a project like this. 182 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,700 I'm curious about that. 183 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,160 So that would be a question that I would query Cassie. 184 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:20,200 Hopefully she has received the email, I don't know. 185 00:23:20,820 --> 00:23:29,740 I did, I can share my screen, and then they can kind of direct me to which slide, hopefully in between I can research your questions. 186 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,840 Okay, so while we kind of move through that, we'll Cassie starting to pull it up. 187 00:23:36,340 --> 00:23:45,540 My recommendations are going to be that Jacob, if you could proceed as like an information only, so like you're just telling us what's going on with the project, what you're hoping to do. 188 00:23:45,540 --> 00:23:56,760 And, you know, then we can kind of get a better understanding of like what we can offer, you know, whether it's suggestions or recommendations of those sorts of things or if we just, you know, or advisory. 189 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:01,420 So, that's. 190 00:24:01,460 --> 00:24:03,280 No, that's exactly what we see. 191 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,040 We weren't planning to really get any specifics out of today. 192 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:14,760 We just were assuming this was just step one and getting that advice on how you, like again, you guys have jurisdiction or not. 193 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,840 I mean, I think we've had some conversations internally, 194 00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:18,660 and I'm obviously with Jackson, 195 00:24:18,980 --> 00:24:19,680 formerly being on the board, 196 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,280 he kind of gave us a little bit of his thoughts on it, 197 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,620 but I think we were just kind of wanting to kind of, 198 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,240 again, there's two questions as one is, 199 00:24:27,260 --> 00:24:28,460 do you guys have the jurisdiction, 200 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:31,540 and primarily what we're talking about as the first floor, 201 00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:33,920 because largely in the 50s remodel, 202 00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:35,960 it really didn't touch level two and three, 203 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,660 is primarily that historic first floor facade. 204 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,840 And fundamentally, the goal for the OXLodge 205 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,760 is to just return to the original, 206 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:48,300 Partly to create that vibrance and to get more glazing, to get more light in, to get more transparency. 207 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:56,200 But also recognizing that they need to do it in a whole hearted approach and not just a partial approach to that if we went down that road. 208 00:24:56,900 --> 00:25:02,220 And so that's where we just weren't sure exactly given that they're both historic dates. 209 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:09,820 Who it is, whether it's you guys or somebody else that would have that authority to say what we can and can do. 210 00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:17,980 Yeah, so I'm not entirely sure. I do know because it's on the national register. You're going to have to coordinate with states or preservation office. 211 00:25:18,260 --> 00:25:21,880 Okay. So that's going to be something you'll want to follow up on. 212 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:29,840 But in the interim, if you don't mind just kind of saying, okay, this was a, you know, like the images were on the screen. 213 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:38,520 To say, okay, this was the original, this was 1950s. This is what we're proposing to do and just kind of walk us through the prepared material. 214 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,040 like, you know, we're brand new to the project because we're brand new to the project. 215 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:49,840 For sure. Thank you. So, as you can see on the 1950s, it's really that lower band on the 216 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:56,860 level one where they've, it doesn't exist. Well, I guess basically a lot of intel. So on the, 217 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,640 let's see, that'd be the front pretty street facade. The glazing on that facade is actually a 218 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:07,320 lot of glass block, rather than just any type of transmoord transparent glazing with visibility, 219 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:15,420 and then as you move along the patty street facade, it also has largely kind of rather than 220 00:26:15,420 --> 00:26:20,140 being a ribbon window removed to be in punched openings, so there's a lot less glass presented 221 00:26:20,140 --> 00:26:26,400 in the 50s than what the original project was. And then also right now underneath the 222 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,900 onion, that's the primary entrance, so there's really only one entryway within the auks 223 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:36,340 lodge. Without getting into a lot of the detail, some of the complications are that between 224 00:26:36,340 --> 00:26:40,980 the original and the 50s, they relocated all the vertical circulation in the project. 225 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,920 And that's really what's created some of the crux of the problem. 226 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,840 Is that that vertical circulation made a lot more sense, what was originally installed, and 227 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,320 the new circulation one is not code compliant, and there's other issues that we're trying 228 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,740 to go through to rectify that, but also it is right in the middle of that main for which 229 00:26:59,740 --> 00:27:03,220 they want to return to tenant space and to have at least will tenant space. 230 00:27:03,220 --> 00:27:05,340 So that's part of this whole dialogue. 231 00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:06,820 I was trying to open that floor up, 232 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,060 create more visibility, create more tenant opportunities, 233 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,100 and create that retail presence 234 00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:13,400 that the original project had. 235 00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:16,980 Whereas when the 50s, the off-slage and my understanding 236 00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:19,480 and David speaks this more became much more insular. 237 00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:21,660 And so that's where they wanted to create 238 00:27:21,660 --> 00:27:23,680 a lot more privacy and secrecy. 239 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,320 And they're trying to kind of go back 240 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,620 to the original that opened that up to the public. 241 00:27:28,620 --> 00:27:30,600 One of the primary problems with this, 242 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,140 obviously with the 50s facade, 243 00:27:32,140 --> 00:27:38,520 is the original entryway that was the vertical circulation, was located on the north-west corner 244 00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:44,780 of that. So just past that white truck, that's where it was, and they infill that original 245 00:27:44,780 --> 00:27:51,540 entryway. So there's some challenges with redoing this to the original. It's basically taking 246 00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:57,260 those two the saws and kind of fully opening them back up. And primarily what we've been one 247 00:27:57,260 --> 00:28:04,140 we've been running into is that the that red reddish box is they relocated the elevator in 248 00:28:04,140 --> 00:28:09,460 socket. It's partly obstructing some of the lit windows on level two and three, but it's also 249 00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:16,900 obstructing an old alcove on level one. So if we flip to the next slide, 250 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,000 so that set red box is the 251 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,720 elevator location overlayed on the original project. And as you can see on that one, just to the 252 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,540 north of that, there's an alcobe, very similar to butterfly urge or hide and soul, where 253 00:28:33,540 --> 00:28:38,820 you kind of have that little recess space. And there's one, one again, just to the north 254 00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:44,000 of that red box, there's one a little bit further south, you can see on the patty street facade 255 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:51,120 and there's also one on the front street, which is labeled Main Street, looks like. So anyways, 256 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,040 those, there's the three alcoves, and then all the busyness to the very top of the page on that 257 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,820 up or left corner, that was the original elevator and stair core that circulated at all levels. 258 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,080 So as we're looking at, unfortunately, the way they located the elevator during the 50s, 259 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:14,140 it really just kind of obstructed the ability to repurpose the facade. And that's kind of 260 00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:20,660 why I guess was a second bullet within our question mark was one if there's latitude within the state 261 00:29:20,660 --> 00:29:29,580 and whatever jurisdiction you guys have to restore this and we also have very accurate records of the original drawings. 262 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,720 We've got a lot of photography of the original drawings and a lot of detail. 263 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:39,080 So I think there's a lot of potential to be able to go down that road and be able to restore that to the original facade. 264 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,820 And then it becomes a timing issue of obviously there's all there's projects 265 00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:49,080 or constrained by money and time and be able to have the resources to do both at once. 266 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:54,080 I mean, the ideal thing would be obviously if vertical circulation and the 267 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,160 facade could be restored at the same time, but we're just not sure if budget allows for that. 268 00:29:58,380 --> 00:29:59,960 And the sequencing and we're not sure. 269 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:06,780 Here at this point, which one would have come first, and is there a stopgap procedure in a way that 270 00:30:06,780 --> 00:30:12,900 if what to say the facade went first, that it would allow us to essentially, 271 00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:15,750 like, obviously 272 00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:20,650 we'd be able to create that alcove at that interim step, but then be able to create it at 273 00:30:20,650 --> 00:30:25,770 another step or phase in the project. Or there's a potential that the facade could go first, the 274 00:30:25,770 --> 00:30:30,190 to serve vertical circulation in a second at which point the facade wouldn't be impacted 275 00:30:30,190 --> 00:30:35,630 and those original outcomes would be able to be re-installed as it originally done. 276 00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:36,310 I don't know. 277 00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:39,690 Is this, as you guys have a question, Paul, let's take a look at the question. 278 00:30:41,470 --> 00:30:41,930 Thank you. 279 00:30:42,090 --> 00:30:43,490 That was a lot of information. 280 00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:45,870 You just went through and very helpful. 281 00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:55,670 I did find the National Register nomination and it is listed under criteria A and C, A being 282 00:30:55,670 --> 00:31:02,310 association with events and CE being designing construction. It's also notes that the period 283 00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:11,410 of significance is 1911 to 1940. So, in terms of the National Register listing, a National 284 00:31:11,410 --> 00:31:18,570 Register nomination that's available today, that's the building is a period of significance 285 00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:20,690 It does not include the 1950s edition. 286 00:31:22,210 --> 00:31:28,590 So with that, I would think that you could revert back to the 1940s, you could return 287 00:31:28,590 --> 00:31:32,150 to building completely to the 1940s version. 288 00:31:33,150 --> 00:31:35,990 If you can pull up the slides again, 289 00:31:39,220 --> 00:31:40,060 when was the nomination? 290 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,280 Yes, very, very important. 291 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,340 And the one I want to, that one right there, and can you zoom into that lower left corner 292 00:31:47,340 --> 00:31:48,380 of that? 293 00:31:50,970 --> 00:31:51,830 Yeah, thank you. 294 00:31:52,290 --> 00:31:52,350 Great. 295 00:31:52,350 --> 00:31:54,330 And Steve, what did you say? 296 00:31:55,270 --> 00:31:58,630 Yeah, one was the nomination written that you're referring to. 297 00:31:58,630 --> 00:32:00,010 I don't know. I closed that. 298 00:32:00,670 --> 00:32:01,110 Okay. 299 00:32:01,630 --> 00:32:03,490 Yeah, look like nice June 1990. 300 00:32:03,610 --> 00:32:05,270 It's like, it's pretty short. 301 00:32:06,290 --> 00:32:07,790 There may be a revision. 302 00:32:09,490 --> 00:32:10,550 There could have been. 303 00:32:11,010 --> 00:32:14,350 I suspect there isn't, but there may have been. 304 00:32:15,250 --> 00:32:17,790 Also, before we continue, what did you say, 305 00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:20,190 criterion A was the significance, did you? 306 00:32:20,790 --> 00:32:22,410 Uh, a association with events. 307 00:32:22,410 --> 00:32:23,370 Which events? 308 00:32:23,870 --> 00:32:24,130 Yes. 309 00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:25,570 Okay. 310 00:32:27,820 --> 00:32:33,160 So, everything you just mentioned, the entry ways and whatnot, I think you could probably 311 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,660 work through that, even in the location of the elevator in terms of the blast or front, 312 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:45,580 seems like there's means to, you know, to work around that, you know, figure out something 313 00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:49,780 Now, that left this entry, that's on the screen right now, 314 00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:51,560 seems like the biggest challenge. 315 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:51,860 Challenging. 316 00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:53,820 100%. 317 00:32:53,820 --> 00:32:54,020 Yeah. 318 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,180 I mean, if because that, and I don't remember what it was on the plan, 319 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,100 but that entry is such a celebratory character 320 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:12,220 of finding feature that when you consider that the return 321 00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:20,420 or reconstruction almost is what you'd be doing, of that it, I would think that that element 322 00:33:20,420 --> 00:33:29,280 that's on the screen would be primary to really kind of achieving the essence of restoration. 323 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:31,140 Agreed. 324 00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:39,790 So I'm just looking for a little bit of clarity on a few things. When you talked about the change 325 00:33:39,790 --> 00:33:46,210 of circulation. It was unclear to me and based on what Paul saying, did they change where 326 00:33:46,210 --> 00:33:52,370 the entry happened? Because these are the original drawings? Yeah, what you had there. 327 00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:57,790 The primary entrance to the entrance. Yeah, so they underneath the 328 00:33:59,090 --> 00:34:03,370 kind of the main or the new morning. The new morning, the main thing you have right now, that's 329 00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:08,570 that's centered there. And what Paul was referring to, it was the primary entrance originally. 330 00:34:10,290 --> 00:34:15,010 There was no door at the location of the current agency. 331 00:34:16,450 --> 00:34:17,610 You can really see it here. 332 00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:21,450 I think that those alcoves you mentioned were probably pretty prominent. 333 00:34:26,850 --> 00:34:29,310 Yeah, but the record can't, so that's the issue. 334 00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:30,730 There you go. 335 00:34:30,970 --> 00:34:31,430 We'll do that. 336 00:34:32,770 --> 00:34:37,110 So that entryway, yes, that's going to be the biggest challenge to reconstruct that accurately. 337 00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:42,450 This is the current entrance location and there is no entrance there. 338 00:34:42,450 --> 00:34:49,730 And so they basically what they had as they had three, I guess, merchant entrances, two along the 339 00:34:49,730 --> 00:34:54,850 patty and one along the front, and it's basically the fact that this one is partially 340 00:34:54,850 --> 00:35:02,330 obstructed by the elevator. And it's not much, it's darn close, but also, and if you just look at it, 341 00:35:02,890 --> 00:35:07,290 the even vertical circulation flow, the 19 to 11 architects, they're doing, and I'm going to hold 342 00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:09,090 my comments on the 1950s architects. 343 00:35:09,810 --> 00:35:12,150 That it just, the circulation flowed a lot better 344 00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:13,810 and even if you start even upgrading 345 00:35:13,810 --> 00:35:16,330 to modern code compliance, it's vertical stacked. 346 00:35:16,530 --> 00:35:19,530 Whereas the 50s remodel, the circulation started 347 00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:22,230 off setting, didn't create vertical sap shafts. 348 00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:25,350 There's a lot of thought, and I know you guys 349 00:35:25,350 --> 00:35:27,110 are super concerned about the interior. 350 00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:29,570 But in order for all those things to happen, 351 00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:32,370 they're almost too full that we're both the facade 352 00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:34,930 and the circulation are kind of married 353 00:35:34,930 --> 00:35:40,230 the hip based on what happens in the 50s. But I mean there's definitely a strong alignment there 354 00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:44,810 and that's kind of what we're, I mean I guess I'm just speaking out loud is to whether or not 355 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:52,310 which is hypothetically say that the circulation went second in the facade went first is 356 00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:58,110 if like I mean I think the ultimate of the alcohol is to return it to this but if they're able to 357 00:35:58,110 --> 00:36:04,830 basically just create this facade restore this entry way and then momentarily not do this 358 00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:09,310 Alcove until the elevator got moved at a later phase, 359 00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:11,790 basically it was contingent on that later phase 360 00:36:11,790 --> 00:36:14,710 than re-adress in this, but it could be the reverse, 361 00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:16,270 which then at that point makes it simple, 362 00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:18,470 because if the facade will go first, 363 00:36:18,970 --> 00:36:21,890 or the elevator goes first, then we could get the elevator 364 00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:24,590 relocated in the facade, so then easy to address, 365 00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:27,510 minus the beautiful challenge in the corner. 366 00:36:29,470 --> 00:36:30,550 So is that kind of make sense? 367 00:36:30,830 --> 00:36:33,730 It's just kind of this little, the little sliver that it intersects 368 00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:39,930 that I'll cove and I'm just from your guys' perspective and guidance is that when you're trying 369 00:36:39,930 --> 00:36:45,330 to restore that to the original, it's this alcove, and obviously we don't want to put it in 370 00:36:45,330 --> 00:36:49,990 a location that isn't obvious and apparent as like within the cemetery, the building and 371 00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:55,750 that's kind of what's so strong about this, is the cemetery of this facade, minus this 372 00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:57,870 order of primary answer element. 373 00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:02,280 Thank you. 374 00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:03,280 That's very helpful. 375 00:37:03,820 --> 00:37:04,840 A couple of questions. 376 00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:07,140 Just for information. 377 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:16,780 What I heard, and I don't know who said it, but I'm curious if you can clarify a bit more 378 00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:26,480 that the intent is to create retail space and return that ground level floor to 379 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,980 on level of retail, like initially you're saying... 380 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:43,220 That it was the mercantile's farm implement display, like did they sell items from there? And is that the intent to return to that kind of retail component within the building? 381 00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:57,880 Not a specific retail component, but yes, the mercantile leased the main floor for many years. They had the replments in there. They probably had other stuff in there too, but they leased that whole floor for a long time. 382 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,880 And is that something you'd be looking to do again? 383 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,840 On it to be leastable space, yes. 384 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:04,240 Okay. 385 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,440 Whatever somebody wants to put there. 386 00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:08,620 But essentially ten it. 387 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:09,480 A ten it yes. 388 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,240 And retail. 389 00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:11,420 Retail. 390 00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:16,860 Yeah, restaurant bar, retail is what, yeah. 391 00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:20,520 After that, talking with David, 392 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,360 I'll screw up that. 393 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,820 The challenge is that he had his friend at least this space. 394 00:38:24,820 --> 00:38:30,140 period is the lack of daylight and views coming out of that space and primarily it's being 395 00:38:30,140 --> 00:38:36,620 obstructed again by the glass block and the infill walls but also it's this there's the kind 396 00:38:36,620 --> 00:38:41,340 of primary staircase that you can't see this behind the existing recurrent entryway is 397 00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:45,280 really obstructing the flow, it's obstructing the daylight and views and so it just makes 398 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:51,000 it hard for them to find a tentative tentative and it's a twofold benefit to do the 399 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,480 frustration, just to bring it back to the original community, but then also it makes a lot more 400 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,980 attractive to take into account these things. 401 00:39:01,940 --> 00:39:05,960 Does anyone in the commission have the comment through in a couple of cents worth? 402 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:11,680 I was kind of taking a philosophical look at it and kind of willing to buy into the fact 403 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,800 that it was a kerchimol remodel rate. 404 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:16,100 Kerchimol was the architect. 405 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:22,280 Yeah, that that has in the meantime become historic because the nomination was written 30 years 406 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:31,080 go. It's not official, but ideally, it's associated with curriculum, it could be considered 407 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:37,020 historical and important in Missouri. But I think philosophically, you always have the right 408 00:39:37,020 --> 00:39:45,500 or the ability to go back to an older and original restoration. And the only thing I'd 409 00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:51,600 say, and I don't think I need to say this, because you guys seem really glued in. Only if 410 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,540 an actual restoration not just kind of like while it's a modern interpretation of what was 411 00:39:55,540 --> 00:40:02,580 there if it's a credible restoration and you know, doesn't demand perfection but it's 412 00:40:02,580 --> 00:40:09,700 that a history of the trunist to it to call it a restoration. So I think even if you consider 413 00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:14,440 that curriculum renovation history you have the option to go back to the original. 414 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,100 Okay, great. 415 00:40:16,340 --> 00:40:18,040 And then that's even I think you kind of, 416 00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:20,520 that was a crux of our kind of, 417 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,300 I guess, quantity and what if you guys 418 00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:24,200 this guy and this was whether the Kirk and Mo 419 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,120 was now going to be considered historic 420 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,480 and what and kind of how that fell. 421 00:40:28,860 --> 00:40:31,160 But if it sounds like there's a lot of 422 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,680 to go back to the original. 423 00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:36,800 And yes, to do restoration and not in modern interpretation. 424 00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:39,400 My opinion and advice though, 425 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,420 it's not necessarily depending on what the jurisdiction says. 426 00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:47,840 That's, but take it as a vice right now. 427 00:40:48,540 --> 00:40:48,560 Yeah. 428 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:49,480 Appreciate it. 429 00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:49,880 Yeah. 430 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:51,180 I would agree with that. 431 00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:53,660 And that's kind of where I was leaning, when I had my, 432 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,740 I mean, my comments that the idea is that regardless of 433 00:40:57,740 --> 00:41:01,600 Kirkomo or not, it's not his best example of work, 434 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,460 that to really represent his architecture and his contribution 435 00:41:06,460 --> 00:41:07,180 to Missouri. 436 00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:08,820 There are better examples. 437 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,180 So to think that this is a Lincoln hair building, 438 00:41:12,180 --> 00:41:21,480 that you know one of two in the city that are pretty prominent and I would think that the 439 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:27,460 period of significance just by the nature of the National Register written in 1990 without any changes 440 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:38,720 and it's notes that it's like an air. So again this isn't a opinion okay. 441 00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:48,800 The way the majority of folks interact with this building is going to be at the pedestrian level, right? 442 00:41:48,940 --> 00:42:02,080 And so how you treat that level of the building is going to be really important to whether you're seen as a restoration or just new windows, right? 443 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:09,300 So I think really looking at that detailing and it's kind of an equivalent in this image 444 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:10,100 in my opinion. 445 00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:13,700 Like we don't really know what that material is, below the glass. 446 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:18,860 We don't necessarily know how all those details happened in the photography you see in 447 00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:25,100 awning and, you know, a little bit more detail in the photographs rather than the rendering. 448 00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:33,300 And so really taking a careful eye to how it was historically experienced, right? 449 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:34,980 Like, how would you walk along it? 450 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,540 What was done to protect it at grade? 451 00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:38,960 How did they deal with snow? 452 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,180 Like, all those sorts of natural things we look at is architects. 453 00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:53,540 But to say, returning it to an era that has is very the glass, the store front, the openings, 454 00:42:53,540 --> 00:43:00,520 the patterning is all very sympathetic or matching of what was originally there is going to help 455 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:12,220 you justify returning to that 1911 and essentially the destruction of that 1950s era renovation. 456 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:20,500 Yeah, no point while taking the actual corner at the patty front facade is this is an accurate. 457 00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:22,680 It's the early artist representation, right? 458 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,480 And the drawings show that slightly differently, and the natural built photography shows that 459 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:28,840 you can slightly different from that. 460 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,900 So it's trying to, like, to your point, go back to the original, almost the photography's the most 461 00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:38,940 accurate, but to get those clues into where the final result was of that period. 462 00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:43,160 And you said you had a lot of good documentation. 463 00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:46,800 So I assume you have a lot more than just what we see here a lot more. 464 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:55,680 lot more to go on. So, oh awesome. Alright. Yeah. I just had a general question and I don't 465 00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,920 know the extent of work or survey that you've done on this yet but Paul did bring up that 466 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:09,420 primary entry point. It looks like it has left an architectural scar on the current building where 467 00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:16,780 that facade was. Was that, do you know was that removed or was it partially encased? Do you know 468 00:44:16,780 --> 00:44:23,900 with anything remains of that. I believe it's removed space. I mean, there's not the depths to have it in case from what I could see. 469 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,280 So, I mean, we haven't done any selective demo, demolition to know, but I would assume it's been removed. 470 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:30,500 Okay. Thank you. 471 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:31,820 Thank you. 472 00:44:31,820 --> 00:44:32,620 Thank you. 473 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:33,240 Yeah. 474 00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:50,770 I do know if the walk in front of that, the Elf's Lodge, you can see the very corner where the architectural scar would be. 475 00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:53,250 And so I was just curious that they extend if you knew. 476 00:44:55,170 --> 00:44:57,410 I don't know for sure, but I believe it was removed and 477 00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:59,970 infilled with obviously the mismatched blockings. 478 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,880 Thank 479 00:45:02,930 --> 00:45:09,030 you. Thank you. Do you think you would have the opportunity to update the National Register 480 00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:12,930 nomination once you're done? You said you had a lot of the history, 481 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,380 because I mean, you've 482 00:45:21,380 --> 00:45:27,560 already brought up that the nomination is not correct and does lack stuff. So I'd really like to 483 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,220 see more of that history represented if you could please. 484 00:45:32,330 --> 00:45:33,850 You can always update an nomination. 485 00:45:36,350 --> 00:45:41,230 Is there, I mean, yes, any negative stuff dating the nomination and once it was restored? 486 00:45:44,850 --> 00:45:45,730 What was that again? 487 00:45:46,030 --> 00:45:49,390 Was it as there any like consequences to doing that? 488 00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:49,990 Oh, no. 489 00:45:50,090 --> 00:45:50,850 I wouldn't think so. 490 00:45:50,850 --> 00:45:51,470 Oh, no. 491 00:45:51,610 --> 00:45:52,410 It's a positive thing. 492 00:45:52,850 --> 00:45:54,690 Yeah, I'd think it's. 493 00:46:01,290 --> 00:46:05,130 I'm going to check in with Cassie unless the commission has additional comments. 494 00:46:06,350 --> 00:46:12,690 And see if she has had the chance to just kind of review. 495 00:46:12,690 --> 00:46:21,150 you. Yeah, what our role is at this juncture. Yeah, your question was more or less what the 496 00:46:21,150 --> 00:46:27,650 commission's authority is, right? Well, preservation permits. Yes, so we always welcome 497 00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:32,050 information. So thank you for ringing information. We love to listen and hear what's going 498 00:46:32,050 --> 00:46:38,430 on in the community. But as far as our role in the process and what next steps might be for 499 00:46:38,430 --> 00:46:47,290 commission just curious you've had a chance to poke into that. Yeah the commission's role is 500 00:46:47,290 --> 00:46:54,790 advisory so really my understanding is what you've been doing is giving comments on the project 501 00:46:54,790 --> 00:47:02,730 opinions feedback and I believe the history preservation officer will review this video and also take 502 00:47:02,730 --> 00:47:06,330 to account with their decision on any future permits. 503 00:47:11,860 --> 00:47:13,680 Thank you for looking into that. 504 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,780 It's much appreciated. 505 00:47:16,980 --> 00:47:19,200 You know, just a couple more comments. 506 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,000 And you more than likely know this, 507 00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:25,540 but when you see properties that have, 508 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,160 and particularly here, 509 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,300 where there's so much street facing glass, 510 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:34,820 that the type of glass that you use is so important, 511 00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:42,760 particularly given so many modern glasses have reflective films in them, which then 512 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:47,400 totally distracts from the historical character. I can imagine that you know 513 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,820 given the storefront and the implement that we're being sold, that that really 514 00:47:50,820 --> 00:47:54,220 was a true playglass, clear playglass window, 515 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,480 which is great, you know, from an 516 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,520 architectural standpoint and a pedestrian standpoint, maybe not so great 517 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,160 from a heating and cooling standpoint inside the building. 518 00:48:05,940 --> 00:48:10,220 So that I don't know exactly, I'm not saying that there's 519 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,140 a, I have an answer. 520 00:48:12,620 --> 00:48:16,680 But it is something that is something to be aware of, I guess. 521 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,240 Just that idea, it's like, there's 522 00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:23,190 a great idea to restore 523 00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:24,770 and return. 524 00:48:26,570 --> 00:48:30,470 And there was probably a reason why the Elx wanted, 525 00:48:30,530 --> 00:48:32,690 in addition to the price he has she mentioned, 526 00:48:33,330 --> 00:48:34,310 but that idea that, hey, 527 00:48:34,310 --> 00:48:41,590 this is a huge windows or an energy suck and you know the heat and cold air that we get 528 00:48:41,590 --> 00:48:48,670 off of them is not very energy efficient. Yeah for sure I think that there's going to be 529 00:48:48,670 --> 00:48:54,550 a lot of research that goes into that and I would hope that with while we're trying to represent 530 00:48:54,550 --> 00:49:01,930 all of the the patterning around the window but the actual the glazing unit that with a new modern 531 00:49:01,930 --> 00:49:06,290 high-performance glazing as there's a way to achieve some of those balances to where you 532 00:49:06,290 --> 00:49:12,410 provide the transparency referring to, but also offset or mitigate some of the, I guess, 533 00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:17,390 just the heat low, especially on that western facade. But to try to balance it, but yet kind 534 00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:23,930 of honor both sides of the equation. The image in the center, right above the word temple, 535 00:49:25,390 --> 00:49:29,630 from this distance, it looks like it's an earning, but I don't think that is, that's just the, 536 00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:35,030 kind of glass, that little glass block. I believe so too. When I first saw that photo, 537 00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:38,790 I had the same kind of catch in my eyes to what others are in on and they're not, 538 00:49:39,210 --> 00:49:47,790 but I believe it's not. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yep. The purple glass. That's what I thought. Yeah. 539 00:49:49,850 --> 00:49:55,110 And was there a modification like the second floor has that balcony with the, I think it's 540 00:49:55,790 --> 00:50:00,210 So that first is surrendering. Those are two different. Like it didn't happen at 541 00:50:00,210 --> 00:50:06,230 rendering. It happened with in reality on the, yeah, okay. Thank you. 542 00:50:07,230 --> 00:50:11,310 That's another case where the artistic representation is an 100% accurate. 543 00:50:11,790 --> 00:50:12,590 Fair enough. 544 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,140 Do you mind going back to the start photograph? 545 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,120 I don't know if we still have Cassie. 546 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:19,920 think. 547 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,920 And I actually have to head out pretty soon. I was only able to cover until about 548 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:33,400 6.45, but it can share an image real quick. And then I believe our admin staff have the 549 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:41,220 slides as well. Oh fantastic, thank you. Which image did you need to say? Yeah, that one right there. 550 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,320 If you don't, this one, thank you. 551 00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:56,140 Thank you. Looking at the imagery, it's by guess, is that those windows 552 00:50:56,140 --> 00:50:58,600 are steel, but they're metal, 553 00:51:04,670 --> 00:51:07,670 very similar to what was the Missile of Merck and Teal, 554 00:51:08,010 --> 00:51:14,610 and I think that's another good precedent to look at for what Paul was saying is that 555 00:51:14,610 --> 00:51:25,530 is also been lost, but looking to replicate or provide that type of glazing the way that 556 00:51:25,530 --> 00:51:34,790 set up that type of system. This is, again, my opinion, I really would not like to see aluminum 557 00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:43,270 storefront in this location. I highly recommend steel, or metal windows, and there's plenty 558 00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:51,170 of really great metal window manufacturers that would be willing to both marry the concerns 559 00:51:51,170 --> 00:51:58,950 with energy efficiency and vandalism, with the historic framing and integration into that 560 00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:59,650 wall system. 561 00:52:03,250 --> 00:52:06,690 So similarly that prismatic glass, that purple prismatic glass, I think there's 562 00:52:06,690 --> 00:52:12,550 some really great examples in town where that's been done well on the hip strip. I think there's 563 00:52:12,550 --> 00:52:29,730 The children shop and a rug gallery there on the east side of Higgins Avenue that is a good example, so I recommend, you know, looking at those as options and 564 00:52:31,780 --> 00:52:54,940 Look forward to hearing more about this project. Oh, we've got more comments. I think we're going to say goodbye to Cassie. So thank you Cassie, but go ahead. I had a question. I don't know if it's appropriate to ask what you've talked about multi-phase and what not. What is your funding? Are you doing fundraising? Are you applying for grants? If I'm allowed to ask that, if I'm not just telling me. 565 00:52:54,940 --> 00:53:00,060 That's the other thing that Jacob's initial narrative talked about is, 566 00:53:00,220 --> 00:53:05,360 hopefully, you can help us with grants, at least locating grants. 567 00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:13,460 The Montana Historical Society, or what, they do a big grant, and we plan on, 568 00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,220 quite applying for that this year. 569 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,440 It opens on January 1st, I believe. 570 00:53:22,420 --> 00:53:24,260 We have quite a bit of income. 571 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,580 We have a ground lease with the rent, which is a 50 year 572 00:53:27,580 --> 00:53:29,380 around lease with two 10 year extensions. 573 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:32,460 So that income is huge. 574 00:53:32,660 --> 00:53:33,880 We have 18 apartments. 575 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,260 Is pretty happy to income as well. 576 00:53:38,660 --> 00:53:41,720 Then if we can return this to a retail space, 577 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,120 that's even more income. 578 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,660 So all this together is going to pay for all this. 579 00:53:45,660 --> 00:53:50,760 plus, do the things that we do as Alx, even on any way. 580 00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:53,660 Which we do fairly well. 581 00:53:54,780 --> 00:53:58,160 So if you go to a website, preserve Montana, 582 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,120 on their website, they have a list of grants 583 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:10,200 that are available for anybody, who's listening, 584 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,800 that would be like, there are grants out there. 585 00:54:13,180 --> 00:54:15,220 And preserve Montana is really good about keeping 586 00:54:15,220 --> 00:54:20,920 kind of a running list of state and national programs that offer preservation 587 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,180 or grants for bricks and mortar to take preservation projects. 588 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,520 Yeah, I've looked at that side a little bit. 589 00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:30,160 They've got a great list there. 590 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:35,060 You may have it in that we don't have or knowledge that we don't have this. 591 00:54:35,340 --> 00:54:41,880 It may be on the probably as on the list, but look at tax credits as well. 592 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:49,180 There. Yeah, it's different for us because we're an nonprofit, but we can do a deal with our contractor 593 00:54:49,780 --> 00:54:53,020 We're he can get the task credits and we can get a little 594 00:54:54,060 --> 00:54:55,500 We know about that 595 00:55:00,030 --> 00:55:03,010 And I wanted to say thank you. This is pretty cool 596 00:55:03,890 --> 00:55:05,510 So thank you 597 00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:12,230 Yeah, and if you don't have any more questions like I mean, again, this is just kind of weird hope and it's just the meeting of 598 00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:16,770 bit one of many. And we'll be back and just keep you guys updated because I think it is going to be a 599 00:55:16,770 --> 00:55:20,690 long process. So we'll just kind of keep you posted and we appreciate you guys' comments. 600 00:55:28,730 --> 00:55:33,570 I would send it to Elias and they will get it distributed to us. So that's probably the 601 00:55:33,950 --> 00:55:39,010 route to go. Is there any more comment from the commission on this agenda item? 602 00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:46,960 Okay, I would like to thank you all for your time in one coming all the way here to taking an 603 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,160 interest and being stewards of historic property in downtown 604 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,220 Missoula that is our community and it's where we live and work and so 605 00:55:55,220 --> 00:56:00,320 we're very excited to see restoration efforts in downtown 606 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,760 Missoula. So thank you for that and we look forward to learning more. 607 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,810 Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. 608 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,420 Elias is email. Can you parade by with those pictures? 609 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:24,920 I think you can find it online because I don't have a written here. Do you have it Paul? 610 00:56:47,220 --> 00:56:57,120 I'm going to take a two minute break if Kathy you want to look at imagery. Okay, so we will look at imagery 611 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,000 for a couple of minutes. 612 00:57:02,700 --> 00:57:07,080 I guess it's a recess. We'll reconvene at 6.52. Thank you. 613 00:59:08,460 --> 00:59:10,660 We are back from recess. 614 00:59:12,100 --> 00:59:15,900 Just in time for item number seven, board member comments. 615 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:17,960 Is there any board member comment? 616 00:59:25,610 --> 00:59:26,130 No board member. 617 00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:27,210 Okay. 618 00:59:27,830 --> 00:59:27,830 Well, 619 00:59:30,060 --> 00:59:31,000 how many either? 620 00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:35,970 Uh, that moves this on to item number eight. 621 00:59:36,010 --> 00:59:37,930 Announcements news and upcoming events. 622 00:59:39,130 --> 00:59:43,470 Though I have a couple of announcements on upcoming events. 623 00:59:43,470 --> 00:59:47,670 Sunday streets is September 20th from noon to four. 624 00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:55,310 At the exact same time as stories and stones, which is on September 20th, which is a Sunday from noon to 3 p.m. 625 00:59:55,550 --> 00:59:59,970 Stories and stones is at the cemetery and Sunday streets is on Higgins Avenue. I believe they're shutting down the bridge. 626 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:26,560 So both of us are fantastic ones to attend. On that note, the Montana History Conference is in Billings this year on Thursday, September 24th, to Saturday, September 26th. I encourage you all to attend. That's all I have for announcements, news and upcoming events. Does anyone have anything else they'd like to add? 627 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:27,360 In 628 01:00:30,620 --> 01:00:37,720 October, there's going to be the North and Green Plains History Conference just for a lot of different historians. 629 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,720 It will be in boostment this year. 630 01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:51,020 It's really a for a lot of like educators and a lot of like historians who really really enjoyed the history of that area. 631 01:00:51,620 --> 01:00:58,640 I've heard wonderful things about it, and I have no plans on going this year, but I really hope to do something. 632 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,520 It's called the Northern Great Plains History Conference. 633 01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:05,280 Thank you. 634 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:15,880 I do have one event that will not be until the winter, but it is in the planning process right now. 635 01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:24,320 So typically the Northern Rockies Heritage Center does a summer concert for their fundraiser and kind of public event. 636 01:01:25,500 --> 01:01:27,920 But they will not be doing that this year. 637 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,980 They are hoping to hold a holiday T instead. 638 01:01:33,340 --> 01:01:38,840 More information should be coming, hopefully in the next couple of weeks about that. 639 01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,580 And there should be hopefully some advertising that will be discussed about that. 640 01:01:43,940 --> 01:01:48,340 But they're hoping to have a celebration of the history of the fort. 641 01:01:48,340 --> 01:02:06,060 And so they will hopefully be working with a team of culinary students from Zulu College to recreate historic recipes that would have been served at the Fort Christmas parties prior to 1940. 642 01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:07,420 So, 643 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,060 yeah, yummy stuff. 644 01:02:11,980 --> 01:02:16,140 So, that's a work in progress, but I'll have more information about that coming soon, 645 01:02:16,420 --> 01:02:25,560 but it should be somewhat of a similar event to if you ever went to the T's at the Flynn 646 01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:30,340 Ranch similar, so it'll be very exciting in there. 647 01:02:30,460 --> 01:02:35,920 They're excited to have an updated event that can kind of go hand in hand with the lantern 648 01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:40,940 tours, but the fort does. It'll be the following week is when they will start their lantern tours. 649 01:02:41,420 --> 01:02:48,100 So to come start the holiday season, even though it just is September 2nd, will we have 650 01:02:48,100 --> 01:02:52,100 any more information about that soon? Thank you. 651 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,760 Oh, and then I did also want to mention 652 01:02:57,980 --> 01:03:06,640 on September 16th, I believe. Yeah, that's not next Wednesday, but the Wednesday after 653 01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:18,640 Northern Rockies is having a talk by UM grad student, Renee Carpenter, on the BLM management of the wild prior mountain horse herds. 654 01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:31,020 In October, I can't remember the dates. I can get that. There will be a grad student, Carolina Hanin, who will be giving a discussion on Indigenous Banner Stone use, 655 01:03:31,020 --> 01:03:38,220 in the middle archaic region, or period, and then Professor Doug McDonald will be doing a book 656 01:03:38,220 --> 01:03:45,840 signing during the forms we will book sale. So lots of fun stuff coming up out at the fort. 657 01:03:53,540 --> 01:04:01,500 Thank you. At the last meeting, we talked about the idea of perhaps touring the 658 01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:08,440 the list of endangered properties that preserve historic 659 01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,520 masala issued in late May of 2026. 660 01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:15,260 And I'm curious if there's an appetite for that. 661 01:04:15,460 --> 01:04:20,560 Elias can look into the details to make sure it's all on the 662 01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,880 up and up from a committee's standpoint. 663 01:04:23,140 --> 01:04:27,440 They're not doing anything we shouldn't. 664 01:04:28,340 --> 01:04:31,120 And that it's totally possible for us all. 665 01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,620 So just curious if there's interest. 666 01:04:34,700 --> 01:04:36,560 I'm incredibly excited about that. 667 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:38,280 Fantastic. 668 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:40,200 All right, so that's 100% interest. 669 01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:41,460 We had to vote on something, 670 01:04:41,740 --> 01:04:45,260 then that's what we would have a unanimous vote. 671 01:04:48,460 --> 01:04:48,900 All right, 672 01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:52,020 any other comment? 673 01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:57,270 All right, thank you all. 674 01:04:59,020 --> 01:05:00,300 We shall adjourn. 675 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:01,440 It is 658.