[1:59] Mhm.
[3:01] » What do we do as an organization on a
regular basis? We observe and report to
[3:05] members of on the work of our municipal
councils.
[3:09] And as with today's meeting, we often
share important work with these
[3:12] councils. We hold regular town hall
meetings on key community items and for
[3:16] many years have presented informational
meetings open to the public on issues
[3:20] that are critical to our communities,
often on environmental concerns. And in
[3:26] 2026, we will continue our tradition of
working with council candidates in
[3:30] holding all candidate meetings in the
run-up to October's municipal
[3:35] council election.
We have also participated in hearings on
[3:39] various threats to the community. This
past year, we've been very active in
[3:44] reviewing and responding to a major
aggregate proposal in Melancthon, close
[3:49] to the Mulmur town line, a project which
has raised concerns across the county on
[3:54] water usage, flow of our main rivers,
and potential serious air contamination
[3:58] arising from explosives usage.
MC Squared operates with a board and a
[4:04] very dedicated group of volunteers, many
of whom are here today.
[4:08] Currently, we have a membership of 90
households reflecting a total membership
[4:12] of approximately 300 citizens.
We are always interested in attracting
[4:17] new members to support the important
work that we are doing. You'll notice
[4:21] that we have a table in the back of the
room with more information on MC
[4:24] Squared. We invite everyone here to join
us as members.
[4:28] We are currently in the process of
updating our website, a project that
[4:32] will be completed in June and will
provide a more detailed information
[4:36] about our current projects and
opportunities for volunteer engagement.
[4:42] All right, let's get started with uh
today's agenda.
[4:45] Um perhaps first of all, I'll introduce
uh the council members that are here
[4:48] today. We have counselor Capes.
We have uh Deputy Mayor Nix. We have
[4:55] Mayor Creelman.
We have counselor Mactalo and counselor
[4:58] Davey. Thank you all for being here.
>> [applause]
[5:04] » Our keynote speaker today is Mr. Andrew
McCammon. He is executive director of
[5:09] the Ontario Headwaters Institute.
Following a career that included working
[5:14] as a consultant to or employee of
agencies on four levels of government in
[5:18] Ontario, federal, provincial, municipal,
and a conservation authority,
[5:23] Andrew became the executive director of
the Ontario Headwaters Institute in
[5:27] 2008.
Since joining, Andrew has guided the
[5:31] institute through a change of focus from
headwaters to full watershed management
[5:36] and more recently to promoting watershed
security. He will share with us today
[5:41] why that happened and provide
observations about how it relates to
[5:44] safe and sustainable water for Mono's
future. Andrew? Thanks.
[5:55] That was my error. Yes. Council Capes we
[6:09] Sat on? Ooh, there you go.
Good morning, everybody.
[6:15] » [snorts]
>> We would like to begin by respectfully
[6:17] acknowledging that the town of Mono
resides within the traditional territory
[6:22] and ancestral lands of the Tionontati,
Attawandaron, Haudenosaunee, and
[6:28] Anishinaabe peoples.
We also acknowledge that the town of
[6:32] Mono resides within the treaty lands
named under Treaty 18, the Nottawasaga
[6:37] purchase of 1818.
These traditional territories upon which
[6:42] we live and learn are steeped in rich
indigenous history and traditions. It is
[6:48] with this statement that we declare to
honor and respect the past and present
[6:52] connection of indigenous peoples with
this land, its waterways, and resources.
[7:05] And now, I give you Andrew.
>> [applause]
[7:10] » Thank you.
[7:15] I'm just
going to
[7:17] try to
make that a lectern.
[7:21] Try to not have my backs to anybody. I
apologize.
[7:25] Um
and
[7:27] the audience, thank you for coming. Um
this is too much information, but there
[7:33] won't be too much information. Uh I was
at a conference 2 weeks ago and I had to
[7:38] look at a screen to the side
and I came home with a crick in my neck.
[7:44] And
[7:47] They don't want to hear this. And
the next day I got food poisoning.
[7:52] Now, I will just tell you this.
The human body wasn't designed
[7:59] to have a crick in the neck while you're
retching, okay?
[8:08] » [laughter]
[8:11] » So,
thank you so much for the introduction,
[8:15] the land acknowledgement, and it's a
pleasure to be here today. I want to
[8:19] thank Stephen in particular.
Um he saw a version of some of this uh a
[8:25] couple of weeks, well, 4 weeks ago now.
And um stop that. Stop it. Um
[8:32] and the projector didn't work.
So, it was kind of a
[8:37] a tap dance between what I wanted to say
and Oh, this side was going to tell you.
[8:42] Um I try not to read my slides. Um this
is a 1-year course, university course in
[8:49] watershed management in 20 minutes.
So, I try I'm going to try to do a
[8:55] narrative that will open up some issues
for you, underscore other issues you're
[9:00] probably familiar with.
Um
[9:03] but
uh
[9:05] the slides, and there's a copy of the
complete PowerPoint on the table. And if
[9:10] you want me to email you a digital
version, tell me your email address and
[9:14] I'll send it to you. A lot of the
bullets in these slides I could speak to
[9:18] you for an hour. We're not going to do
that, and there won't be a test. Um so,
[9:24] uh uh uh hopefully I can get this
covered in a in a entertaining fashion
[9:29] in in 20 minutes. Okay.
So, I've always been a water baby.
[9:35] I don't know if anybody else has water
babies, but they're the kids that want
[9:38] to stay in the bathtub all the time and
when you take them to swimming class at
[9:41] the Y, they want to do the length of the
pool underwater.
[9:45] They don't want to learn how to crawl.
And I've always been interested in
[9:48] water. I love fog. I love rain. I love
back country canoe tripping and swimming
[9:54] six times a day. I've always been
interested in water. And then I got
[9:59] somewhat interested in the science,
which this covers.
[10:03] Uh but I ended up in the policy wrong
side. Um and and so people just don't
[10:09] understand water. Most people until you
get a crisis that's like the several
[10:14] that your community is facing with uh
development and arsenic and quality and
[10:18] quantity,
um you you
[10:21] suddenly people get interested in water,
but we take it for granted. A lot of
[10:25] people don't know where water comes
from.
[10:29] Water is life and it's the defining
feature of our planet. Yes, the pictures
[10:33] from the moon showed clouds, but by and
large it was a blue bobble with the
[10:38] oceans. Um but where did it come from?
Well, this planet was a dead rock.
[10:45] And it was as it condensed, there were
volcanoes for millions of years,
[10:50] probably hundreds of millions of years.
Those volcanoes ejected the water
[10:55] particles in the rock into the
atmosphere. What was an atmosphere? It
[10:59] was toxic, poisonous, wouldn't call it
an atmosphere, but it was too hot to
[11:03] rain.
So,
[11:06] all the water that we have now in the
oceans was suspended. And finally, the
[11:11] planet cooled down enough for it to
rain, and the rain covered the planet.
[11:16] That was before the continents emerged.
So, then some of the land that was now
[11:20] submerged by that water arose.
And in those um areas that got wet a
[11:27] couple of times a day,
those are where we feel life began.
[11:32] And cyanobacteria invented
photosynthesis.
[11:37] And the photosynthesis,
the most of those those plants were for
[11:40] the most part in the water. There's no
plants on land. And those plants
[11:46] put all the oxygen into the atmosphere.
So water is not just key for life now
[11:54] for us, but water in fact is where life
began and created our atmosphere. So we
[11:59] need to respect it a lot more than we
are right now.
[12:05] Currently we have a synergistic kind of
relationship. Water circulates the
[12:10] planet in what's called the hydrological
cycle. I'm sure you're familiar with it.
[12:15] Um and and it's amazing, but I I just
love teachers and talking to kids.
[12:20] Uh I sometimes talk about uh the
hydrological cycle, which is
[12:24] accumulation, water flowing across the
land,
[12:28] um transpiration, the sunlight
evaporating it and the trees breathing
[12:32] it out.
Uh that water vapor rises, condensation,
[12:37] and then precipitation. And I was doing
this for some class and some kid went,
[12:42] "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accumulation,
transpiration, condensation, and
[12:46] precipitation." Like they had all these
signs for it. They knew exactly what was
[12:50] going on. And and that's what we're
currently jeopardizing with the
[12:54] greenhouse gases we're putting up into
the air. We're affecting the
[12:57] hydrological cycle, the intensity and
duration of storms, uh longer droughts,
[13:03] uh
longer heat waves, longer intense rain
[13:07] as Ontario just found out and we've got
all this flooding all over the place
[13:10] such as in uh Minden Mills right now and
other places. Um
[13:15] so
stop it.
[13:20] So our hydrological cycle, to me it's
somewhat similar to the formation of the
[13:24] planet and the formation of water. It's
still water's still going everywhere.
[13:29] Once it rains, it flows across the land.
It creates our headwater areas, our
[13:35] surface water streams. It percolates
into the ground and and can be
[13:39] groundwater and or aquifers or
aquitards, which a lot of is very
[13:43] important here with your arsenic and
other problems.
[13:47] We started as the Headwaters Institute.
Headwaters are very simply first,
[13:51] second, and third order streams. A first
order stream is one with no tributaries.
[13:56] » [snorts]
>> Two first come together, they form a
[13:58] second.
Two seconds 100 ones could come in, it's
[14:02] not going to change.
Two twos come together, it's a third.
[14:06] So, these things grow exponentially.
The biggest watershed in the world is
[14:11] the Amazon.
It's a 12th order stream.
[14:16] It's not 100, it's not 47, it's 12. And
it has the only two 11th order streams
[14:21] in the world. The McKenzie is a 10th
order stream. So, as they get bigger,
[14:26] it's a it's it's geometric progression.
Um
[14:30] and it infiltrates into the ground and
it exfiltrates out of the ground. Our
[14:35] cold water fisheries, such as the
Credit, where you have great trout
[14:38] fishing, it's a cold water stream
because there's so much percolation of
[14:42] groundwater that goes into the karst
dolomite of the Niagara Escarpment. And
[14:48] when it comes out, it's chilled to
ground temperature at 58°. That's why
[14:53] there's cold water fisheries. Um and of
course also, because it infiltrates,
[14:58] that's how we get our arsenic and other
chemicals, either naturally from the
[15:03] soil or from when people get in and
start disturbing that soil.
[15:08] There's no clock.
[15:12] Um so,
[15:16] what I'm going to do today, I wanted to
give you that as just some common
[15:20] background about how much we love and
respect water.
[15:23] Um this is kind of I said mentioned
earlier, this is kind of a very
[15:26] condensed expression of the whole nine
yards of watershed management
[15:31] um and our desire to shift to watershed
security, which I'll get into.
[15:35] Um so
we're I'm going to provide a framework
[15:38] of what watershed management is right
now. There's lots of bullets on the
[15:42] pages, that's why I handed them out.
There are things you can research, you
[15:46] can ask me, email me if you have any
questions on those elements. Then we're
[15:50] going to get into recent and future
challenges. So just imagine a picture of
[15:55] Doug Ford up there.
[15:59] And then uh we'll talk about what Mono
can do.
[16:11] So as per some of the things we've
handed out in the introduction and I
[16:15] don't want to repeat it over and over
again, but we are a registered charity
[16:19] that promotes watershed security.
Um and and that includes water security.
[16:27] There's a lot of consternation right now
because there's a bill
[16:32] I think it's 100 uh
which is introducing the prospect of
[16:36] municipally owned
water um corporations.
[16:42] And 10 days ago that was in included the
prospect of of
[16:47] uh
municipal private partnerships where
[16:51] they could sell shares to water
companies. And that's been taken out of
[16:55] the draft legislation. Only
municipalities will be allowed to own
[16:59] the shares. Um so they've they've kind
of putting a little lid on water
[17:04] security, which is your municipal water
supply, but we're still uh but watershed
[17:08] security includes water security because
it's the water flowing across the
[17:13] landscape and going into our aquifers
that feeds the water security issues.
[17:18] And we believe, and this is our
um struggle
[17:24] uh with all of our
environmental organizations that we work
[17:28] with so strongly in three land use
planning coalitions.
[17:31] Um they are so angry at Doug Ford and
the developers and the appearance of
[17:36] corruption from the Greenbelt scandal um
that they are just absolutely frothing
[17:42] at the mouth. We've been telling them
for 5 years, it's all about water.
[17:48] If you use water as the key
metric for land use planning,
[17:54] the land use planning issues are going
to go away.
[17:58] So, we're still a voice in the
wilderness. We haven't been able to
[18:01] break through. I think we're starting to
finally see that. The the crisis in
[18:05] Waterloo where there is a moratorium on
development permits,
[18:09] um there's emerging crises in other
communities, hello Mono.
[18:13] Um there's farmers that are having
incredible difficulty trusting the water
[18:18] that's uh that they have uh to irrigate
their crops. Some of that is quantity,
[18:23] some of that is salt from on the roads.
Um so, we we have to do a better job
[18:28] both with our land use planning. If we
don't cut down all the trees, if we
[18:33] don't drain all the wetlands, if we
don't shove concrete pavement everywhere
[18:39] to adjust to to reduce the flow of storm
water, we wouldn't have so many water
[18:45] problems. And so, currently in all of
our planning mechanisms, water is taken
[18:50] for granted, it's kicked down the policy
uh tree to the implementation phase.
[18:56] It's not planned from the beginning. So,
we get into these problems. So, that's
[19:00] that's who we are.
Um Ontario, I don't know if you are
[19:05] familiar with this.
Um I speak to a lot of
[19:08] uh crowds that are intense policy wonks
like myself. So, we know all about the
[19:13] Conservation Authorities Act 1946
and the beginnings of the
[19:18] Ontario led the world. No organization
in the world had conservation
[19:23] authorities. Ministries of the
environment were formed until the 1970s.
[19:29] Ontario was one of the first in 1970 and
that was because of the Rome conference
[19:33] on sustainable development. All the
governments in across the world, Canada,
[19:38] Ontario, Canada, the US, Europe, they
started to create ministries of the
[19:42] environment. Ontario was 14 years ahead
of that, 1946,
[19:48] creating conservation authorities. And
that influenced a whole shaft raft of
[19:54] elements of the planning regime. These
are those bullets that we're not going
[19:57] to talk to. The Niagara Escarpment Plan
was the first water planning commission
[20:02] in the world.
We have a really good planning act and a
[20:06] provincial policy statement which guides
development.
[20:10] The Environmental Bill of Rights,
another almost world leading. But water
[20:14] was
very much the focus of the Lake Simcoe
[20:18] Protection Act, the Oak Ridges Moraine,
the Greenbelt, the Place to Grow, the
[20:22] danger everything. It was it was
inculcated throughout all these acts
[20:27] because we had done such a poor job with
water in the 30s and 40s, cutting down
[20:32] trees and creating erosion and flooding
conditions.
[20:36] Hurricane Hazel would not have been so
bad had we not cut down all the trees on
[20:40] the Oak Ridges Moraine.
So, all of these things are connected.
[20:46] However,
since 1946,
[20:49] with all of these things, the
watershed management has become just
[20:56] very complex.
There are all these interacting
[21:01] agencies. There are all these
interacting bits of legislation. There
[21:05] are all these committees of government
people who got together and decide who's
[21:09] going to do what.
Um and so it really is an Excedrin
[21:13] headache. I think everybody in this room
remembers the old Excedrin headache
[21:16] commercials on TV. It's not just a
regular headache, it's an Excedrin
[21:20] headache.
Um
[21:21] and so we have unequal policies, in ad
it very very different resources. Some
[21:28] municipalities support and contract
their conservation authorities to do
[21:33] really good work to help them with their
official plans. Which is now outlawed.
[21:38] Thank you, Mr. Ford. As he outlawed
green development standards.
[21:42] Um
so there's there's all these things that
[21:46] have become very very complex. Some CAs
ensure that mis- some municipalities
[21:52] ensure their municipal- their CAs get
good levies and so they have resources,
[21:57] but some people's water is protected
better than other people's water. And
[22:01] and we don't think that's right. Water
is fundamental right. It's a global
[22:04] commons and we need to respect and
protect water more uniformly across the
[22:10] landscape.
So um
[22:14] blasting right along. And I still don't
have a time. Oh, there's a clock. When
[22:19] did I start?
At Did I start at 9:40?
[22:25] Nailed it. Okay, perfect. God, I'm good.
Thank you very much.
[22:29] Um so I want to talk a little bit about
what the current problems are.
[22:34] For the most part, the system has become
fragmented.
[22:38] Because we have too many agencies, too
not enough resources, and and things are
[22:44] different in different geographic areas.
So one outcome
[22:52] You won't be able to see this and if I
printed it on an 8 and 1/2 by 11, you
[22:56] wouldn't be able to see it at all. But
we have this amazing map. Sorry that
[23:00] it's so hard to see. This depicts
over 40
[23:06] water management organizations just in
South Central Ontario.
[23:11] 36 of them are conservation authorities.
There's others like the Severn Sound
[23:16] Environmental Association.
There are areas covered by the Ministry
[23:21] of Ministry Natural Resources where
there's no conservation authority.
[23:26] There's the Lake Simcoe Protection Act
and the Oak Ridges Moraine Greenbelt
[23:30] Act. And some of the CAs and part of the
Lake Simcoe
[23:35] uh area are within the Greenbelt. So,
right away you've got three overlapping
[23:40] geographic areas with different policies
and priorities. So, we've been trying to
[23:45] tell the Ministry for for 5 years
that this is needs is fragmented and
[23:52] needs to be standardized. So, we're not
opposed to the harmonization of policies
[23:57] for conservation authorities as proposed
under this
[24:01] uh the the the draft act to consolidate
them and impose a provincial
[24:07] conservation agency to tell them what to
do. We're not opposed to a coordinating
[24:11] agency. In fact, 7 years ago we proposed
the creation of regional water boards.
[24:17] So, we're not opposed to the concept,
but what this government is doing is
[24:22] it's trimming
rather than consolidating to the highest
[24:26] standard. It's reducing the cost. The
government province hasn't paid a
[24:31] provincial fee to conservation
authorities for 15 years. They're now
[24:36] talking about $3 million to 36 CAs to
help them consolidate.
[24:41] Thanks very much. Um so, we're not get
this this is going to be worse. Um but,
[24:47] that's the situation. That's why we're
fragmented.
[24:50] Um
the the next one is that with so many
[24:54] agencies involved and I mentioned that
people sit around a table. If you want
[24:59] to bring an issue to the attention of
CVC for example, and I'll give you the
[25:03] example of the Aaron sewage treatment
plant, and the concern there is that the
[25:07] effluent discharge is going to be above
the temperature in which brook trout can
[25:11] live.
[25:14] When this was
brought to their attention in a dramatic
[25:18] manner, not by me,
um
[25:21] in a serious manner to say, you know,
what is
[25:25] Suddenly, the agencies started talking
to each other. They didn't know Well,
[25:28] I'll talk to the Ministry of Natural
Resources. I'll give MECP a call. We're
[25:32] having a meeting next week.
Somebody should be in charge of some
[25:37] simple things, which I'll get to later.
But with this
[25:41] fragmentation,
we get agencies saying, well, I'm not
[25:44] sure, let me get back to you.
I run a business. I don't run my
[25:49] business that way.
And the other one is, and I said I
[25:53] wasn't going to read very much, but one
of the outcomes of what we have right
[25:58] now
from this
[26:01] is that the conservation authorities do
watershed report cards. We have 886
[26:06] watersheds
under the jurisdiction of the 36
[26:10] conservation authorities.
We forest conditions are fair,
[26:16] poor, or very poor
in 64%
[26:21] of those.
[26:25] While the surface water, and this is
quite interesting, I would have thought
[26:28] it would have been worse. I would have
thought the surface water would be worse
[26:31] than the forest conditions.
There's science reasons I've been
[26:34] educated on. The surface water quality
in those categories,
[26:39] fair, poor, or very poor,
52%.
[26:44] And if we did a map of where those very
poor were, you could probably pretty
[26:49] well identify them without doing any
science.
[26:52] because it's downstream of Richmond
Hill. It's downstream of Brampton. It's
[26:57] down It's It's It's where the
agglomerations are because we have too
[27:01] much concrete and poor such poor
stormwater treatment. So, we're we're
[27:06] not in good condition and
this really applies to to Mono.
[27:13] Given the increase of sprawl and the
Ford government has imposed sprawl on
[27:18] some communities like um Caledon and
Halton, they wanted to intensify their
[27:23] downtowns and build up. And the Ford
government imposed 9,000 acres of
[27:30] farmland in there in Halton
to be converted to housing.
[27:36] They didn't want that.
They were opposed to it. So, given the
[27:40] increases in urban sprawl and the and
the changing climates,
[27:45] we can predict that these numbers will
deteriorate.
[27:49] And there would be more and more
moratoriums on development similar to
[27:52] there are in Waterloo. And some of the
material from some of your counselors
[27:57] and members of MC squared that Steve so
kindly forwarded me so I could get a
[28:02] background, the issue of water quantity
that was raised several weeks ago and
[28:07] the report was then released from the
source water protection committee where
[28:10] there's a mid-term quantity concern.
You're on it. It's not imminent. It's
[28:16] not going to happen tomorrow. People
have time to responsibly work on it. But
[28:22] you'll end up like Waterloo if if that's
not dealt with. Waterloo is not They're
[28:28] actually houses that are built. They
won't give them water. Those developers
[28:32] are threatening to sue.
Um there's other developments won't
[28:36] start yet cuz they haven't got their
water allocation. Developers
[28:41] are going to lose their workforce.
If you can't keep the framers and the
[28:45] electricians and the plumbers and the
concrete pores engaged, they're going to
[28:49] find a job in another community and
eventually move. Then you're going to
[28:53] have to re-attract your workforce. So
there's this multiplier effect from
[28:58] stupidity.
And whereas Walkerton was caused by poor
[29:03] water quality monitoring, in fact
criminally poor,
[29:08] Waterloo is being caused by poor water
quantity monitoring. They weren't
[29:13] monitoring their wells.
And the fed the provincial government
[29:17] was issuing
permits for aggregate pits with no
[29:21] consideration at all for water and below
water table aggregate pits. So these are
[29:26] all things that
act together
[29:31] and I'm way on to the next page.
>> [laughter]
[29:35] » So that's why we're very concerned and
I'm thrilled to see that you're on this,
[29:39] that you're planning in advance and the
report, the actual report that was
[29:43] tabled, I think took away a lot of the
concern that people had when they first
[29:47] heard there's a water qual quantity
crisis in Mono. I think it's not
[29:52] imminent. I think you've got time to
work for it and the report's very
[29:56] encouraging on those fronts.
So those are the fragmentation issues.
[30:01] This is what happens when we have this
over 40 agencies involved in in
[30:06] watershed management. The other one
that's happened, go away. Go away, I
[30:11] don't want you there.
Is dilution.
[30:15] The provincial government has
wants to take the planet back to the
[30:21] volcanic rock it was with no water on
it. They just don't like water. The
[30:27] housing action plan, we're on like we're
on like version seven right now cuz they
[30:33] can't get it right. They keep taking
away laws and regulations encouraging
[30:38] the developers to build. Zero condo
starts in the first quarter of this year
[30:44] in Toronto.
Um
[30:47] the developers just don't have the right
conditions. And the government's trying
[30:51] hard to encourage housing. We need
housing. We need affordable housing. I'm
[30:56] not against that, but when you give away
so much, way back when they were first
[31:02] elected, they actually the first bill
that they proposed had a section in it
[31:08] to to establish special bylaw areas.
Where municipalities were alleviated
[31:15] from the responsibility of honoring the
the Clean Water Act. Well, that's a good
[31:20] thing to do. Who needs to honor the
Clean Water Act, which is what sets up
[31:23] the Source Protection Committees. That
we beat them back. Environmental
[31:27] Defense, thank goodness, spent $150,000
on a campaign that we supported. That
[31:34] bill was withdrawn from the house. We've
had virtually no similar successes
[31:38] since.
Uh and now that's not special bylaw
[31:42] areas, it's special economic zones. Uh
which is why they're going to they're
[31:47] going to steal the airport. It's what
they're doing with Ontario Place. It's
[31:50] what they're going to do in the Ring of
Fire. Um obviously they streamline
[31:54] approvals.
Uh this is a biggie. Bill 185
[31:59] if in the past you were downstream of a
development and you were concerned about
[32:05] the stormwater plan
and and the volume and the sediment what
[32:09] you were going to get downstream water
and the sediment gets deposited on the
[32:13] gravel beds where the fish breed and the
temperature changes. Um those were
[32:19] reasons to be able to appeal the Ontario
Land Tribunal.
[32:23] Now you can only appeal
if you're on a contiguous property
[32:30] and oh by the way, you had to be
involved in the public meetings from the
[32:34] very beginning or else you weren't
allowed to appeal.
[32:37] So, the it's just this horrible table of
development at any cost.
[32:44] Um I won't get into section 4.2 of the
PPS, but that's directs municipalities
[32:49] to
they actually have to embrace the
[32:52] watershed at the meaningful level for
planning and they have to protect,
[32:56] restore, or improve water through their
planning. No municipality is doing that.
[33:00] I've made 12 presentations in the last
year. They want no part of it and the
[33:05] government's not going to force them to
do it. Right now and we have omnibus
[33:09] bills with no consultation, no committee
meetings, and closure. So, this
[33:13] government really doesn't want to talk
about water. On Thursday nights
[33:18] Steve Clark, who was forced to resign
from the Greenbelt scandal, where he was
[33:22] taking land out of the out of the
Greenbelt, he is now proposed that Bill
[33:26] 97 be voted on in the house and never
mind the committee hearings. Well, Bill
[33:31] 97 happens to be
the consolidation of conservation
[33:35] authorities. Oh, and by the way, it has
freedom of information changes.
[33:40] And if they if we get access to all of
the papers, maybe somebody's going to
[33:45] jail.
So, they're they're trying to rush Bill
[33:49] 97 to the floor of the house without any
committee hearings whatsoever. This is
[33:54] our government. There are other aligned
reductions encouraged by the Housing
[33:58] Action Plan. The Endangered Species Act
has become a joke.
[34:02] Uh you used to be able to have to
protect um the habitat, the range of a
[34:07] species. Now, you only have to
you only have to protect the den.
[34:13] So, like where a turtle lays their eggs,
you have to protect it. Where the turtle
[34:18] can live and eat,
you don't have to. Um and on and on and
[34:23] on. I call it the pitiful aggregate
policies because our pits can now get
[34:29] they're just below water table's not a
problem.
[34:32] So,
it used to be uh
[34:35] it used to have to have municipal
approval.
[34:38] Because below the water table can impact
municipal water, and the counselors have
[34:43] a legal obligation to protect the health
of their municipality.
[34:46] They took it away.
So, you don't you don't have a say now
[34:50] in below water table pits. And on and
on, I'm going to go
[34:55] I'm just about need to wrap up.
Um and then of course I mentioned
[35:01] earlier the twin climate and
biodiversity crisis. So, these are the
[35:04] really big challenges on on water. So,
we think watershed management has had
[35:12] its day.
Thank you, world-leading, fabulous,
[35:18] fragmented and diluted.
Uh and we think it should be changed for
[35:25] a system based on watershed security
with aspirational goals and
[35:31] science-based outcomes. I'm going to
give you two.
[35:34] The provincial targets should mimic
something in a federal
[35:40] guideline called how much habitat is
enough.
[35:43] The federal guideline suggests that you
you should protect a minimum of 30% of a
[35:49] watershed in natural heritage, 40% is
better, and 50% is opt 60 50% is
[35:55] optimal. We have no targets at all for
maintaining natural heritage in Ontario.
[36:02] We have the Greenbelt, thank you very
much, that's great. But every watershed
[36:06] should If you cut down all the trees and
drain all the wetlands, that watershed's
[36:11] going to deteriorate. So, we need
prevent And all those are in how much
[36:15] habitat is enough. The percentage of
wetlands that should be there, the
[36:18] percentage of treed
edges along streams for for 30 m, uh,
[36:25] overall
natural heritage for the watershed. We
[36:29] don't have any aspirational targets.
Here's the second one. Um, we have
[36:33] something called the Ontario provincial
water quality objectives.
[36:39] That's what sets it. There are there
it's not exactly the same as
[36:44] um, the arsenic and selenium issues that
you have here, but for
[36:50] scores of chemicals um, like E. coli in
the water there are targets that you
[36:56] should not go over for which start to
impact fish health,
[37:02] the other creatures that live in the
water, and of course drinking water. We
[37:06] have targets.
[37:09] There's no triggers.
[37:13] We know of streams that have exceeded E.
coli and other key
[37:19] objectives in the water in the
provincial water quality year after year
[37:25] after year.
No agency is tasked with addressing it
[37:30] from what level.
That's um,
[37:34] what I
meant earlier by science-based outcomes.
[37:39] That's what I meant earlier when I
talked about the temperature of the fish
[37:43] where these people are meeting in
committee to determine whether or not
[37:46] the effluent coming out of the Erin STP
is going to kill the brook trout. And
[37:51] » [laughter]
>> and at one point somebody from CV said,
[37:54] "You know, you're right, but we're we
it's microclimate and we have we have
[37:59] other streams that are above this
temperature and we have brook trout. So,
[38:03] if if we kill the brook trout in this
tributary of the Credit, we'll just go
[38:07] get some from another from another
creek." And I said to them,
[38:11] "Oh, which sci- which international
science journal did you report that to?
[38:17] Cuz I haven't seen that."
>> [laughter]
[38:21] » So, uh, we need standards, targets, and
and people should be responsible, not a
[38:28] committee meeting, but maybe the
conservation authority should be
[38:31] responsible for this, the municipality
for that, the provincial government for
[38:35] this, and uh you know who to call. So,
that's we believe shifting to watershed
[38:40] security. And um
that's why we have the big poster.
[38:45] Uh watershed security, and that's why we
have a handout handout
[38:51] and a little poster
which is the municipal lens for
[38:56] watershed security. We're Within a
month, we'll have a whole slew of these.
[39:00] We have the watershed security, the
municipal, the provincial had was held
[39:04] up. The provincial guidelines are coming
out next week. Um and then we're going
[39:08] to get to agriculture and aggregates.
We'll have sectors and targets,
[39:12] science-based targets for every sector
so we can treat our water better.
[39:17] I hope I'm near the end. Oh, look at
this.
[39:20] Magic.
[39:25] I was encouraged when the
Michael?
[39:28] There's too many new names. I'm
Doug. Doug, sorry. My apologies, Doug.
[39:32] He reminded us of what the goals of MC
Squared are. You know, that's absolutely
[39:37] perfect. Monitor and meet and publish
and and get the citizens engaged. Um
[39:44] that's absolutely perfect. We believe
that what Mono needs to continue doing
[39:50] is through all the emails that I was
sent, again, thank you, Stephen, on
[39:54] what's happening, whether it's the
uh the new developments,
[39:59] uh the inability to turn on the um
sewage treatment plant, uh the growing
[40:04] arsenic, um
those you're you're on it. You're doing
[40:09] the right things. You're looking at the
reports. You're engaging people. We
[40:12] would suggest that this needs more
engagement.
[40:18] Um that you need to build allies.
Go to the meetings. Uh
[40:24] who's there? Talk to the funny guy in
the red shirt. Oh, wait. Wait a minute.
[40:29] Not me. Um
and find out what they do and what
[40:32] resources they have, what they know. Uh
build allies. And the most important
[40:37] thing is, other than I'm I'm going to
touch on these in a minute, is
[40:41] concentrate on the policies,
not the politics.
[40:47] We are a registered charity. We're not
allowed to lobby.
[40:52] But And people say, "How can you write
that stuff, Andrew?" Well, this is this
[40:56] on the policies. It's not political.
I'm not saying vote for the left-hand
[41:00] party over the right-hand party. We're
saying we want these policies. And you
[41:05] can do that without any fear at
whatsoever. Um so, I encourage you to
[41:10] understand the local policies, uh sort
out the
[41:14] uh concrete the sensitive, compassionate
elected leaders. Find those allies there
[41:21] and ask
You were mentioning uh you know what's
[41:24] going on in Caledon. Uh Caledon is
trying to put in 35,000 homes on 7,000
[41:30] acres north of a particular road, and
they put forward 12 bylaws,
[41:35] uh and Democracy Caledon has spent so
far over $200,000 on a judicial review
[41:41] that those bylaws are illegal. Um and
you need to find You need to get way
[41:47] ahead of that. You need to do that at
the official plan. Need to do that at
[41:51] the block at the uh secondary planning.
You need to be involved, um and uh
[41:56] concentrate on the policy, not the
politics. Uh Rural Democracy Caledon is
[42:01] being slagged
uh as a as a bunch of wannabes who want
[42:06] to be elected, and that they're hurting
Caledon. It's just the the the
[42:09] temperature up there is horrible. The
elected politicians are being political,
[42:14] but the charities can't be political.
Concentrate on the policies. So, those
[42:18] are the the big takeaways.
Uh 22 minutes.
[42:23] Um
Support the conservation authority.
[42:27] Consider how you can integrate land use
and watershed planning at the municipal
[42:31] level. Map and include your significant
source water contribution areas, locally
[42:37] significant wetlands in official plans.
And then defend them. Sometimes
[42:42] significant wetlands
get filled in accidentally by sediment
[42:48] and gravel trucks. Um
And then they're not a significant
[42:52] wetland anymore. And all the wildlife's
gone, and they're not filtering water
[42:55] very well. So, you've got to map them
and defend them. Um same with the key
[43:00] source water protection areas, uh and
exclude them for site alteration
[43:05] planning.
That's where you don't pay attention in
[43:08] a a
motion goes to council to approve it. If
[43:12] Wait a minute. Isn't this on a protected
infiltration zone from the source
[43:16] protection committee? Oh, well, we're
going to put down some special
[43:20] low-impact development, permeable
pavement. It's okay. Don't worry about
[43:24] it. Ain't.
They need to be excluded from site
[43:28] alteration planning. Uh the rest I've
already spoken to. I'm sorry went a few
[43:33] minutes over. I hope you find the
handout helpful for further details.
[43:39] Thank you very much.
>> [applause]
[43:46] » You're welcome, Andrew. Thank you.
Thank you, Andrew. Uh we have time for a
[43:51] couple of questions if anybody had
anything for uh for Andrew.
[43:59] All right, behind you, Stephen.
[44:03] Hi, Andrew. I have a question about uh
how many municipalities in Dufferin
[44:07] County have you presented to?
[44:11] What was the question?
How many municipalities in Dufferin
[44:16] County have been
uh
[44:19] has this uh
been received so
[44:26] Um we
We're we're
[44:30] didn't get to plug our organization very
much. Um we rely tremendously on the
[44:35] fabulous legal and planning resources of
the B's.
[44:39] Uh Terra Nature, Environmental Defence,
um
[44:43] Canadian Environmental Law Association.
Those organizations
[44:48] um
are the leaders in the intellectual
[44:50] capital.
We steal and borrow their stuff.
[44:56] We're different They they don't get
above Highway 7. We have 50 partner
[45:01] organizations north of Highway 7.
So, we we depute when our neighbors call
[45:07] us in. We were in Pickering,
uh we're in Haliburton, we're on Lake
[45:12] Simcoe, we're in in on the Credit. So,
Halton Region, Peel Region,
[45:20] uh
Dufferin?
[45:22] No.
We're Dufferin. I always do that. Um
[45:27] Durham.
Durham. So, we it's just we we I get
[45:32] paid 12 weeks a year.
So, I think we we hit above our batting
[45:38] average. We're we really Our batting
average is above our IQ. Let me say it
[45:42] that way. Um but we we go where
somebody's seeded the ground, we get
[45:47] called in to help. To to show up at a
council meeting uninvited, they say,
[45:52] "Well, who's this guy? He doesn't live
here."
[45:55] And then the way it's it would be you'd
be amazed. We deputed to
[46:01] uh
Muskoka.
[46:06] And we're on the watershed uh Muskoka
Watershed Council for about a year. And
[46:11] And we It was like
uh we were like wearing the wrong color
[46:15] shirt, I tell you. They We We didn't
live there. They didn't want to hear
[46:18] from us.
So, it's really nice to be invited.
[46:21] We're happy to be
in a collective effort. Uh we'll funnel
[46:26] you the stuff we uh beg, borrow, or
steal from the Big East. Uh keep you
[46:30] informed. Make sure policy
recommendations are accurate. But we
[46:35] just don't have the resources to depute
all over the place.
[46:39] Sorry for the long answer.
Yeah, if you could uh come up here, use
[46:43] the microphone. Oh, I got a microphone
for you.
[46:49] Thanks for your presentation, Andrew. Uh
it's good to see this happening uh
[46:56] because our our county really really
needs it. And uh have to
[47:01] examine what we're doing and and plan
better for what's coming up in the
[47:05] future.
Uh I have two questions. One is uh
[47:10] where does water fall in the uh
Charter of Rights and Freedoms in
[47:15] Canada?
[47:20] Hello.
[47:25] And while you're thinking about that
>> a movement. Uh you know, the Council of
[47:30] Canadians has been arguing for years
that um that water is part of the global
[47:34] commons and we have should have a right
to water. But it's it's not made any
[47:38] progress constitutionally.
[47:43] Wouldn't it make sense if if if it was
included in the Charter of Rights, if we
[47:48] had the right to clean water?
Would it not wouldn't uh a lot of these
[47:53] problems be taken care of or be
addressed.
[47:58] Oh, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus.
Um, are you a journalist? No. Well, good
[48:06] questions and you're taking notes, which
always make me very afraid. Um,
[48:10] so, here's a little bauble that people
might not be aware of. Um, the
[48:16] Constitution separates responsibilities
for the feds and the province. So, the
[48:22] feds have uh international waters,
waters that cross boundaries. Um,
[48:28] so,
uh and and the um the Great Lakes, uh
[48:34] navigable waters, which is where larger,
not your your uh
[48:39] eight horsepower, nine horsepower boat
goes, but navigable waters.
[48:43] Um, and fisheries. That's their
responsibility.
[48:48] They don't have a constitutional
responsibility for watershed management.
[48:55] They Health Canada has obligations to
protect drinking water and they work on
[49:01] the Interprovincial Council on Drinking
Water through the Canadian Council of
[49:05] Ministers of the Environment in
Winnipeg, uh so that there's some common
[49:09] standards. But, Ontario owns the lake
bed under the Great Lakes, under on our
[49:16] side of the line. The feds don't. Um,
and Ontario is very territorial with
[49:22] respect to its actions or non-actions on
water. Um,
[49:28] under the
under a provincial-federal
[49:33] agreement, there are huge efforts
underway right now
[49:37] uh
to address algae in Lake Erie.
[49:42] And um
and so there's one of those committees I
[49:46] was talking about, there's federal,
provincial, conservation authority,
[49:49] municipalities, farmers' organizations
working on reducing the nitrates to
[49:55] reduce the algae in Lake Erie.
Um and it's a big target for the
[50:00] International Joint Commission.
There's
[50:03] there's no written mandate for that
committee.
[50:07] We can't get a list of who from which
agencies are on that committee, and
[50:11] there's no budget for that committee.
We have suggested to the federal
[50:16] government that this
exercise be a model to write watershed
[50:22] management into the agreement that I
mentioned. I didn't do that. Um
[50:28] and so these things move very slowly,
and there's because the province wants
[50:34] to have control over the water that it's
not protecting,
[50:38] uh these collaboration efforts are
really, really tough. So, it's a good
[50:42] question. I really don't have a a solid
answer for you. I'm sorry. Okay, and
[50:47] part two has to do with a relatively new
phenomenon,
[50:51] uh and I want to know if it falls in the
same bucket as aggregate, and that is
[50:55] uh data mana- data centers.
And are there do to your knowledge, are
[51:01] there any data centers proposed for
Ontario? And if one is proposed, does it
[51:06] get treated the same way that aggregate
gets treated, and the public has no say?
[51:11] It's too It's too It's too early. Um
there are huge organizations and and um
[51:18] collaboratives in the US um because
they're far more prevalent there, and
[51:23] they have less water there. Um and and
so our American colleagues are leading
[51:28] the charge on um
against uh
[51:31] these data centers. The big guys, like
Zuckerberg, have pledged that they're
[51:37] not going to take any local energy
to make the energy rates go up. Um so,
[51:42] they're talking about small nuclear
reactors to power their data centers.
[51:48] Yay, let's do that. Um
and and the other issue is water to cool
[51:53] um to to cool the
the heat generated by these uh data
[51:58] centers. Um we're not near that here. I
don't know of any data center that's
[52:03] been proposed yet in Ontario. The
concern is the 700 acres that is being
[52:08] ex-
um
[52:11] What is that legal term? Expropriated?
in Wilmot County. All prime agricultural
[52:16] land, 700 acres, and the town says the
province wants it. The province says,
[52:21] "No, no, the town wants it for
employment." Nobody knows what it's for.
[52:26] Is it a Chrysler EV plant?
Is it another Amazon warehouse?
[52:32] Is it data centers? Nobody knows. And
what's going on in Wilmot County, it's
[52:38] so bad and it ties into um the Waterloo
water shortage because within the last
[52:44] couple of weeks, Waterloo canceled its
1981 agreement with Wilmot County that
[52:52] it would never come and take any of
Wilmot County's water.
[52:55] Now with the water moratorium and they
need water, they have ripped that they
[52:59] have informed Wilmot County that that
agreement is null and void. So we're
[53:04] waiting for the next shoe to drop.
Really good questions. These things are
[53:08] unfolding in real time. Elaine, did you
have comment?
[53:13] One comment and then one quick question.
So I may be misremembering this, but I
[53:20] thought that water was declared a human
right at the UN.
[53:29] I wish I could answer that. Well, I'm
just putting that out there so we can
[53:33] all look it up on Google. Anyway, but I
I I did think that that was the case.
[53:39] Um also, my question is
because all the hydrologists that come
[53:45] and tell us that drilling below the
water table is no big deal, take all the
[53:49] cap off the water and nothing's going to
happen.
[53:52] Is that true? What is the impact to the
water after you take all the gravel away
[53:59] and just have a big open
pond?
[54:03] Thank you.
[54:06] Tough crowd.
[54:09] There
[54:12] So, the first thing I would say is that
um
[54:17] part of this goes back to the Wellington
Water Watchers and the the big battle
[54:21] they had up there with um
Nestlé and their water bottling plant.
[54:26] Um and uh it it gets into two things.
At what level
[54:34] at what depth is is the groundwater?
Um and Nestlé was maintaining that they
[54:39] were down
like 600 ft.
[54:42] That they weren't taking water from the
near surface aquifers that the town was
[54:47] going to be using.
Um and they were so, you know, it was
[54:51] the largest number of submissions on the
environmental registry of Ontario ever
[54:55] at that point in time. People wanted
them out and Nestlé sold their plant and
[55:00] left. Um and they felt that it was a
lack of science knowledge by the
[55:05] community. It was misinformation and
political campaigning. That's their
[55:09] position. The other thing that I was
working with the Wellington Water
[55:13] Watchers and I I asked them, "W- What's
the What's the discharge What's the
[55:18] drawdown?
And what's the recharge rate?"
[55:23] They They had no idea.
And so, that's why it's so important to
[55:27] do the monitoring. That's why what's
happened in Waterloo is a crime. They're
[55:30] supposed to do the monitoring. They
should know the recharge rate and the
[55:34] withdrawal rate. And you you say, "Well,
we'll have water for 30 years or we have
[55:38] water for 12 months. Nobody's allowed to
water their grass anymore." Right? And
[55:41] that didn't happen there. So, the the
question of Now, but but aggregate pits
[55:49] don't necessarily flow to
municipal reservoirs.
[55:54] Aggregate quarries,
uh a lot of that water
[56:00] goes into back into the If it's on the
Niagara Escarpment, for example,
[56:04] Dufferin The Dufferin pit, when you
drive on the 401, you see the bridge
[56:08] through the broken gap in the
escarpment, um they
[56:13] That's on dolomite. It's fractured
dolomite. Horrendous recharge rate.
[56:17] That's why those rivers are still cold
water streams with cold water fishing.
[56:21] Because of that. So, what they're doing
is they have 27 pumps. They pump the
[56:25] water back underground.
Um so, where is the Where does the water
[56:31] go? Um Those
issues need to be mapped, and
[56:35] groundwater is really difficult to map.
Um
[56:39] Uh but so, there needs to be a better
job of saying, "Well, what is the risk?"
[56:44] If we don't know the risk, we need to We
need to make rules based on the risk.
[56:48] But, one of the challenges in the
aggregate is that it's fire and forget.
[56:54] If If you are on a well, and a new pit
goes in or a pit gets expanded, and
[57:00] suddenly you've got to drill another 100
ft for water,
[57:05] and you want to think what maybe has
something to do with the expansion of
[57:09] this pit,
it's on you.
[57:12] You have to hire a hydrogeologist. You
have to pay for the studies. You have to
[57:17] prove why the water table dropped, and
it was related to their activities over
[57:22] there. And so, this reverse onus, that's
like guilty until proven innocent.
[57:28] Right? And And so, the aggregate pits
are getting away with a lot of
[57:33] activity without the science and without
the responsibility. And and I just think
[57:37] they need to be more responsible human
beings than than they are now.
[57:41] Currently, there's a
uh there's a huge more
[57:45] couple of organizations are demanding a
moratorium on any new gravel pits
[57:49] opening in Ontario.
We think that's a bit extreme. We just
[57:55] think that you should open no aggregate
pits below the water table.
[57:59] So, but they don't like our suggestion.
Okay, I'm going to have to call it
[58:03] there. We've got 2 minutes for our
coffee break. Just a warning very
[58:07] quickly, the UN declared water a human
right in 2010.
[58:11] There you go.
Quick fast uh breaking news. Bonus. Um
[58:16] Andrew, thank you again. Folks, we have
5 minutes for coffee, then we're going
[58:20] to come back here for the rest of the
program.
[58:23] Fantastic.
[1:01:24] » Mhm.
[1:03:19] » Mhm.
[1:05:14] » Mhm.
[1:07:13] » Hear me now?
>> [laughter]
[1:07:15] » Okay. So,
um
[1:07:18] My name is Cherish Armstrong, and I come
to you as a member of the town's climate
[1:07:23] action committee.
This committee was formed in December of
[1:07:26] 2025 at the direction of council to
guide the implementation of the town's
[1:07:30] climate action initiatives.
Due to some unfortunate bad luck and
[1:07:35] some even worse weather, we finally had
our inaugural meeting at the end of
[1:07:39] March. The committee hopes to continue
the tradition that the town of Mono has
[1:07:44] had in trying to mitigate the effects of
the emissions that cause climate change.
[1:07:49] All the lights in this building, and as
all of Mono's buildings, are LED. We've
[1:07:54] installed solar panels on the top of the
public works building, and the town has
[1:07:59] just ordered its first electric pickup
truck.
[1:08:02] We've identified our initial project as
areas and assigned them to
[1:08:06] subcommittees. These project areas are
public education campaigns, options for
[1:08:12] green energy production like solar
panels for the municipality and private
[1:08:16] residents, agriculture and home
gardening initiatives, and an updated
[1:08:21] energy audit. These are ideas identified
as
[1:08:24] by committee members for the initial
work for the climate action committee.
[1:08:29] Members of the public are always welcome
to attend meetings and join
[1:08:33] subcommittees to help in this important
work. Solving climate change requires us
[1:08:38] all to work together. But, in honor of
Earth Day next week, I personally would
[1:08:43] like to encourage you to do whatever you
can because every little bit helps.
[1:08:48] Whether it's carrying a reusable coffee
cup, getting the kids involved in
[1:08:52] recycling as much as you can, or
investigating the possibilities of
[1:08:55] switching your heating and cooling
systems in your home, your actions add
[1:08:59] up in the long run. Thank you.
[1:09:03] » [applause]
>> Thanks, Chair.
[1:09:08] Thank you, Chair, for that. Okay, it's
time for the main event. It is your
[1:09:11] opportunity to ask questions of your
council.
[1:09:16] Um I would ask that you use a microphone
so that to everyone can hear you. Uh you
[1:09:21] state your name and to at least to start
off, if I could ask just one question to
[1:09:26] per participant and then we can uh make
sure that we hear from all who wish to
[1:09:32] uh
seek some answers.
[1:09:35] Do I have anybody coming to the on at
bat circle? Here we go.
[1:09:44] Hi, my name is Marion Heron. I live in
uh on Blind Line.
[1:09:49] Um my question is always not always. Uh
I'm interested in water and so I really
[1:09:54] enjoyed this presentation. So, thank
you.
[1:09:57] Um I'm wondering about Watermark the
development there. Uh
[1:10:01] one, the water treatment plant
when the when the it was built, they had
[1:10:07] problems with the water treatment and I
wondered if that's been finalized,
[1:10:12] finished, and is it now working okay so
there's not trucks going back and forth
[1:10:17] with effluent problems?
And the part of the uh what is happening
[1:10:22] to the land use? The developer wanted to
put a lot of townhouses in there and I
[1:10:27] haven't heard anything about what's
happening to that land and what happened
[1:10:31] when it went to the tribunal or some
review by the Ontario government and I
[1:10:36] haven't heard anything more about what's
happening to that land.
[1:10:40] So, it's a two-part question.
[1:10:45] Could we just clarify, Marion, are you
asking about the water treatment plant
[1:10:49] or the sewage treatment plant?
>> Sorry, sewage treatment plant. Forgive
[1:10:52] me. Yeah.
I'm I'm the best person to speak to
[1:10:56] that. I know they're working very hard
to fix the There are problems. But she's
[1:11:00] talking about water.
>> The the
[1:11:03] Oh, the Watermark one.
They're all They're all
[1:11:07] The water The Watermark one? Yes. Well,
I think there's still problems there. I
[1:11:11] haven't heard I mean, that's owned by a
condo organization, not by the town. So,
[1:11:16] there's no cost to the town on that.
No, okay.
[1:11:21] Eric Grielman? [clears throat]
Um as far as I know, the Watermark plant
[1:11:26] is functioning.
Um you will always have some truck
[1:11:31] movements because
it needs to be cleaned out every once in
[1:11:35] a while apart from you know, the simple
operation.
[1:11:39] Uh as for the
the developers' land, uh we were
[1:11:45] successful in in getting that before
both the Ontario Land Tribunal as well
[1:11:51] as the Superior Court. I would say that
it is in limbo at the present time. Uh
[1:11:57] there's nothing to report,
but the plan that they submitted to the
[1:12:02] town of of Mono was found to be
questionable in our in our view, and we
[1:12:08] went to the Ontario Land Tribunal, and
it also peeled off to the Superior
[1:12:13] Court, and we won in both venues.
[1:12:21] Do I have to press something? I don't
think so. Okay. It's magic. Uh Signy
[1:12:25] Ball from Mono Waste Centre. Um
about I
[1:12:30] Well, let me preface by saying I have
driven through Caledon recently a fair
[1:12:35] bit
and been
[1:12:38] pretty horrified by the houses
monster homes that are going up there
[1:12:43] sitting on the side of the road
sprinkled [clears throat] all through
[1:12:46] the town.
Three years ago, Mono discussed
[1:12:54] figuring out how to manage monster homes
in our town,
[1:13:00] um including sightlines, setbacks,
maximum square footages,
[1:13:07] and also possibly lowering the minimum
square footage on other homes.
[1:13:13] So, I'm just wondering where that might
stand.
[1:13:20] What a great question. In fact, I raised
this at our own council meeting just
[1:13:25] this week. So, we have on our unfinished
business list, which is a list of items
[1:13:32] that we've brought forward at the table,
and that we've needed to assign to
[1:13:36] staff, and staff have all their other
duties to do, and then we come up with
[1:13:40] these brilliant ideas. And so, there is
an outstanding,
[1:13:45] um
item to review and create a large homes
[1:13:52] bylaw. So, that is
being worked on. And now, I don't have
[1:13:58] the dates in front of me to say, but it
will be um
[1:14:02] in the coming up quarter, I I believe.
So, it's with our planning group.
[1:14:06] And so, they're looking at where does
that belong in our official plan and in
[1:14:10] our zoning bylaws, and it's it's
complicated. Um
[1:14:14] and so, they're working on that. So,
it's it's it's there, and it's on my
[1:14:19] radar, and our radar. So, thank you for
that question.
[1:14:23] Councilor Mantello?
Uh thank you, Elaine. And in further,
[1:14:27] the uh actually, we did get a a plan,
which was presented to us Sydney,
[1:14:33] and um we didn't like it, so it's been
sent back, and we're asking for them to
[1:14:37] redo it again.
In all fairness, that was from a
[1:14:42] previous planner, and it was a while
ago, and it wasn't what we were looking
[1:14:46] for. So, now it is back with planning to
come back with
[1:14:51] we gave them more direction. So, yes,
that's correct.
[1:14:56] We have a question that came in online
just prior to the meeting from Jacob
[1:15:01] Bennington.
Does the town have a program for
[1:15:04] managing invasive phragmites in the
area? If not, is the town aware that
[1:15:08] there is funding by the MNR through the
Ontario phragmites action program to
[1:15:13] support new existing initiatives to
prevent, manage, and control this
[1:15:18] invasive species?
Councilor Nix.
[1:15:22] Um
Okay,
[1:15:25] the answer is is multi-layered. We we
have a volunteer committee called the
[1:15:29] Headwater Streams Committee. Karen
Morrison back there is the chair. We do
[1:15:33] a bit of work on phragmites. It's total
volunteer labor.
[1:15:38] Uh if someone's got phragmites on their
property,
[1:15:41] we can go out there
and show them how to remove it or help
[1:15:45] them remove it. We we've tried it in
several locations.
[1:15:48] Backing up a few years earlier than
this, and I'm not sure it's still in the
[1:15:52] budget, we did have
uh some money in our municipal budget to
[1:15:57] look at phragmites in our in a few of
our um stormwater management ponds and
[1:16:03] ditches. I'm not sure that's still
running. We did it the same year the
[1:16:06] county was trying to handle phragmites.
On a broader scale, and I sit on the
[1:16:12] board of Credit Valley Conservation,
um we did put in a request for a grant,
[1:16:17] uh fairly large grant for a 5-year
program to handle phragmites at Island
[1:16:21] Lake.
Um it it's serious at Island Lake. We've
[1:16:25] mapped it. We have a management plan,
but we didn't get the grant. So, uh we
[1:16:30] don't have any
we being the CVC, Credit Valley
[1:16:34] Conservation, doesn't have any sort of
spare change itself that it can spend on
[1:16:38] phragmites. It it I'm going on memory. I
think we needed
[1:16:44] Yeah, don't quote me on this. Half a
million dollars for a 5-year program to
[1:16:48] handle the phragmites at Island Lake. I
think it was half half a million.
[1:16:51] Anyway, we didn't we didn't get the
grant. We'll keep trying though.
[1:17:01] Can't hear you on the recording if we
don't. All right. Okay. Hi. I know most
[1:17:06] of you.
Um just a quick question. What are your
[1:17:09] council doing to support Melancthon
council with the strata aggregates Corey
[1:17:14] situation?
[1:17:20] Mayor Gilman?
[1:17:23] Uh we're very aware of the the threat
that Melancthon is under and in fact
[1:17:28] adjacent municipalities are under with
proposal to mine beneath the the the
[1:17:33] water table. Um explosively mine, not
simply dig.
[1:17:40] Uh we have supported them with a motion.
We've talked about it at county council
[1:17:45] as well.
Uh it's it's truly truly disturbing,
[1:17:49] frankly. And Melancthon has been through
a lot.
[1:17:52] This isn't this isn't the the first
proposal. There was one a number of
[1:17:57] years ago uh by a hedge fund out of
Boston to create a mega mega gravel pit
[1:18:04] up there.
Uh they had the effect of buying
[1:18:08] properties, tearing houses down,
destroying the assessment base,
[1:18:13] and then they were chased out of out of
town.
[1:18:16] Uh Just so you know, I'm sorry to
interrupt. We chased them out of town.
[1:18:20] We chased them out of town because of a
federal environment assessment. Yes. So,
[1:18:26] my question to you guys is and to
everyone, the province isn't going to
[1:18:31] help with this. If anyone has
connections
[1:18:35] or please write. Carney's office is very
good in supporting me and fisheries and
[1:18:42] Kyle. I'm I'm not I'm looking at the
people, not the party. Okay? Um
[1:18:48] I would really appreciate everyone in
this room writing Carney's office about
[1:18:52] the situation and fisheries and Kyle.
I'm sorry to interject.
[1:19:00] Perhaps the premier could fly in on his
new jet.
[1:19:03] Well, actually I I just want to May I
just
[1:19:07] tell my quick story? [laughter]
So, Doug Ford called me on a Sunday
[1:19:11] morning
and said he doesn't make deals, De
[1:19:15] Gasperis is not his friend, and asked
who our MPP was.
[1:19:23] Okay. Thank you.
[1:19:27] Nancy, could I just add to that?
>> Oh, yeah.
[1:19:29] » [laughter]
>> Could I just add to that answer what
[1:19:31] Nancy said? Going back to the mega pit
that we defeated 10 Corey 10 years ago.
[1:19:37] Here's the difference and and Andrew,
you you're probably aware of this.
[1:19:41] Under the old rules, the lead agency
there in terms of getting the study the
[1:19:46] technical studies that were done and
having them peer reviewed was the
[1:19:49] conservation authority, the NVCA.
Today,
[1:19:53] conservation authorities don't have that
power. At Credit Valley, we're facing a
[1:19:57] very giant pit that and we as a
conservation authority
[1:20:02] don't even have a say. We do we we are
not even a commenting agency on on that
[1:20:05] one because the province has taken away
our power to talk to talk to
[1:20:09] municipalities about natural heritage
features.
[1:20:15] All right, we've got a couple of
questions that
[1:20:19] MC Squared came up with over time. Um is
council planning some evening council
[1:20:26] meetings to facilitate our large
commuting population to participate in
[1:20:30] council affairs in person.
Anyone like to
[1:20:35] Councilor Maglone? I'll answer that
because I'm sort of responsible for
[1:20:40] initiating the change about 8 years ago
or so.
[1:20:44] Nobody was coming in the evening.
So
[1:20:48] we had a number of blurry-eyed
counselors and others
[1:20:52] that
were felt they could deal with their
[1:20:55] their brain would be functioning better
in the morning and we've gone to
[1:20:58] mornings for that reason.
The recognize what you're saying but the
[1:21:03] other thing that we've done which I
think is really quite fantastic is that
[1:21:07] all of our meetings are
on YouTube.
[1:21:11] And the meetings are itemized so that
you can go in and you can pick out item
[1:21:14] number seven sort of thing click on it
without having to listen to everything.
[1:21:18] And you can do that anytime that you
want and that's the way a lot of people
[1:21:22] are picking up on our council meetings
now.
[1:21:28] Thank you very much. I was just going to
add to that that yes you brought it up.
[1:21:32] When I joined we were doing them
afternoon and morning through and then
[1:21:37] looking at how who's coming. This is
terrific that you're all here today but
[1:21:41] you guys don't come on Tuesdays whether
it was in the evening or in the morning
[1:21:44] because it's Tuesday right? Like there's
everybody's got stuff to do. So at the
[1:21:48] same time that that we we said there
were there weren't enough people and
[1:21:53] what when do we as a as a group
function? Of course the staff you have
[1:21:57] to if they're here in the evening then
you get them they're in loose so then
[1:22:01] they're not going to be here on a
Wednesday afternoon when you need them
[1:22:04] cuz we've had to give them time off. So
we there was a lot of reasons but it was
[1:22:08] also because of the of this electronic
world that we live in now that we could
[1:22:13] have them on the not only is it recorded
and you can look at it later which
[1:22:19] without question generates questions
from the public. We get we we get a lot
[1:22:23] of emails from people saying I just
watched the meeting Here's my question.
[1:22:28] Um and and also the the um being able to
phone in and participate or computer in
[1:22:35] and and participate during even if
you're at work. So many people work from
[1:22:39] home and so they can be using their
computer and so on. So I think certainly
[1:22:42] there's a new council coming. I guess I
I would be open I'd be open between now
[1:22:47] and and the end of this term to to
entertain trying a trying again just in
[1:22:52] the spirit of the question, but um
it's not it's not necessarily going to
[1:22:57] get more people out I don't think by the
the time of day. It's more getting the
[1:23:01] information of what's going to be
discussed and what has been discussed
[1:23:06] out to the public.
Mr. Truman? Oh. I was just going to say
[1:23:10] that we did reserve the right to hold
night time meetings on uh particularly
[1:23:15] contentious issues. And uh we have done
that uh notwithstanding the fact that uh
[1:23:21] vast [snorts] majority of our meetings
have been held during the day. I'm open
[1:23:24] to the idea of uh the new council
reconsidering and uh anyone considering
[1:23:30] a run for a a seat on Mono Council
should be aware that the status quo
[1:23:35] could change.
[1:23:40] I'm just going to be a little bit cheeky
here.
[1:23:43] How many of you will come if we host the
meeting on Tuesday nights?
[1:23:51] Depends on the agenda.
Well, yes, true. We we need to make the
[1:23:54] agenda exciting, but I just wanted to
ask you that. And I just wanted to let
[1:23:59] you know I'm wearing my sunglasses
because I have a sensitivity to these
[1:24:03] lights. So it's not cuz I'm blurry-eyed.
I'm cool. This is cool.
[1:24:08] I'm cool.
Bill Monroe.
[1:24:12] I object to Councillor Mike Tulo saying
there were bleary-eyed people at the
[1:24:16] meetings. I used to come and I was
you know, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.
[1:24:22] He us council members, so just to be
clear.
[1:24:26] Well, that's taken for granted, isn't it
really?
[1:24:30] I'd like to talk about water actually,
but in a different sense.
[1:24:34] Uh
a few years ago there was a report from
[1:24:38] Watson about the drinking water in
Cardinal Woods and Master's Creek.
[1:24:43] And as a result the costs per month to
those who use it went up
[1:24:50] quite high, not dollar wise, but
percentage wise. And it was to pay for
[1:24:55] a few things. One of them was a
an arsenic
[1:24:59] problem at Island Lake.
And the other thing was a tower round
[1:25:03] about Cardinal Woods. And these things
cost something like 10 millions each.
[1:25:09] This money that's been paid in
from the people who use it
[1:25:14] every month.
I haven't seen any
[1:25:18] tenders out for the the tower or the
the arsenic plant.
[1:25:23] Is the money put in a
another account? It doesn't go straight
[1:25:27] into the general account. And when are
we going to get movement on the arsenic
[1:25:33] plant and the tower? Because every year
you put it back, it's going to cost
[1:25:37] more.
Thank you.
[1:25:42] If I can If I can, Bill. Um
Uh our our water rates as well as our
[1:25:47] sewage rates uh over in uh
uh the other part of the part of the
[1:25:52] town, those those monies collected are
segregated. Uh it's a user pay system.
[1:25:57] And some of the money that is collected
goes into a reserve for future works.
[1:26:02] And uh the rest goes into the operation
of the system so that the uh taxpayer uh
[1:26:08] does not actually uh fund the operation
of water and or sewage. It's the users
[1:26:14] who in fact are responsible for those
costs.
[1:26:17] Uh as for the the tower, uh that was a
suggestion of the ministry.
[1:26:22] I am not personally convinced that we
need that kind of storage given the fact
[1:26:28] that there's very little growth
anticipated over in that part of the
[1:26:32] town. And for the arsenic, there is a
study ongoing or a process ongoing that
[1:26:40] will give us a series of recommendations
to consider as to how we proceed with
[1:26:44] that.
And and Bill, that study on the arsenic
[1:26:50] that's going forward. We got a grant to
cover that. So, the the water users are
[1:26:54] not paying for that. We We did get a
grant.
[1:27:08] But it was a good size grant. I forget
the exact amount.
[1:27:15] Okay.
Excuse me, just one more question. You
[1:27:19] know, actually talking this rhetoric.
User pay for the water, that's great.
[1:27:25] What about user pay for the calcium when
you don't use it?
[1:27:31] » [snorts]
[clears throat]
[1:27:38] » Hi, Elaine Kehoe.
Um
[1:27:42] when are we going to have a heritage
committee?
[1:27:50] Um I can answer that. Uh next term.
We've got We just recently in this past
[1:27:57] meeting
made a motion to support extend which it
[1:28:03] hasn't particularly happened for sure,
but to support the the drive for the
[1:28:07] heritage committee was that the our new
government has made
[1:28:11] changes to the um
ability to designate and the timing on
[1:28:17] that. And they there is a a push to um
push that date out to 2030 as opposed to
[1:28:24] 2020 eight, I think it was 2027 or 28.
So, right?
[1:28:29] Yeah, 2030 is the new one, but I mean I
think it were we were only pushing it a
[1:28:33] little bit, but we were pushing it
nonetheless.
[1:28:36] Somebody's got their hand up.
A- A- And did you did you want to
[1:28:40] interrupt her with or for another
question? So, so that the um there's
[1:28:44] time to for us to constitute because as
we had Cherish come this morning and and
[1:28:50] make a comment, I'm sure she's here, I
just can't see her. Oh, there you are.
[1:28:53] Um the that um that we struck a struck a
new we get an idea to have a new
[1:28:58] committee, we strike the new committee,
we interview and everything, but the
[1:29:01] actual, you know, takes weeks to get
things off the ground. We're we're
[1:29:05] running very short, which is uh you
know, it's going to be campaigning time
[1:29:09] soon. So, it'll be next year, but
there's no question but that Mono needs
[1:29:13] a heritage committee and we've could
because we've got a lot of more good
[1:29:18] work to do that that committee was
doing.
[1:29:21] Just if I could add to that.
We had the best heritage committee I
[1:29:28] know in Dufferin County and probably
beyond our borders and they were
[1:29:34] well-known in other areas for all the
great work that they did.
[1:29:40] And we went into an unfortunate
situation
[1:29:44] and right now we don't have the heritage
committee,
[1:29:47] um
but as Melinda said, we did support uh
[1:29:52] the argument to push to 2030
for moving any
[1:29:59] properties that are on a registry cuz we
we have a registry that lists all of the
[1:30:05] potential designations that we could
make and there are quite a few on that
[1:30:09] list but there wasn't enough time to
allow any of those designations to go
[1:30:15] forward because of the change in the
policy downtown. And so now that's been
[1:30:21] pushed out so we supported that
with the hope that with a new council
[1:30:28] when the new council is here that the
heritage committee will be
[1:30:33] reconstituted.
[1:30:37] Clarification also on how committees
work that all committees are struck by
[1:30:41] the council when a new council comes in
for the idea that they'll be around for
[1:30:45] that term and even if everything was all
hunky-dory and all the all the people
[1:30:51] want to be on the committee that's not
necessarily that the new council's going
[1:30:54] to going to
strike those same committees or strike
[1:30:57] the same and or
populate them with the same people,
[1:31:00] right? It is a
it is a beast of the of the
[1:31:04] sitting council.
So.
[1:31:07] And the second part of that,
approximately a year and a half ago
[1:31:12] myself and another realtor in the area
spent a substantial amount of time
[1:31:16] putting together guidelines for realtors
as a whole Toronto, Dufferin Caledon
[1:31:25] with guidelines that they would use when
selling properties in different county.
[1:31:30] Nothing ever came of that, at least
nothing that the Toronto Real Estate
[1:31:34] Board has been advised of.
And now without the heritage committee,
[1:31:40] I've been getting comments that this is
the time to buy in Mono
[1:31:44] and there's no rules in place. I know
that there are rules, don't get me
[1:31:48] wrong. I'm just hearing comments to that
effect. So
[1:31:53] was anything ever implemented with the
guidelines that we had set out?
[1:31:59] And I want to if I could because I was
part of that
[1:32:03] group and and appreciate the work that
you did and that another realtor did for
[1:32:10] that and it is on our website and Andrew
can confirm that I hope.
[1:32:16] Yes, yes, and yes.
And did we take the next steps
[1:32:22] to distribute
to because I know you kindly provided us
[1:32:26] the list.
I can't answer that question. I would
[1:32:30] have to go back to
check on that for you.
[1:32:36] There ended up being some some issues
with respect to how the town is entitled
[1:32:41] to to broadcast things out
right which is why we don't have a
[1:32:47] Facebook group and all those kinds of
things. There's there's regulations. So
[1:32:52] I know that it's on our on our website
for our local realtors, but you're
[1:32:56] right. If you get a realtor coming up
from someplace else who's not
[1:33:00] particularly looking few pages deep into
our
[1:33:04] website then then we've it appears to be
for not but no but
[1:33:10] yes, we'll have to look into how to
bring
[1:33:14] bring that up to the to the front of our
of our website
[1:33:19] and and that the problem with Council is
of course Council can direct staff to do
[1:33:24] things but then we don't always we don't
always get back from staff. So we'll
[1:33:27] have to find out that whether it's
possible to send that to the realtor
[1:33:32] board. Thank you. Right. Thank you
Melinda and so
[1:33:37] we will look into
where that went from the suggestions
[1:33:43] that were made by that group
to put forward that document out into
[1:33:49] the real estate world and we'll we'll
get
[1:33:54] an answer.
I think I think our CAO may be able to
[1:34:00] um elaborate on the issue of whether we
did uh disseminate that
[1:34:04] that document. The document was created
and it has been put on the website. I
[1:34:08] just say that we get phone calls every
single day from realtors
[1:34:13] uh on behalf of uh clients uh in in the
uh form of a due diligence inquiry uh
[1:34:20] with regard to a property. Um and we try
to answer those questions as best we
[1:34:25] can. Uh sometimes we don't get those
calls because people think they can
[1:34:30] shortcut that process with a title
insurance. That is not a wise thing to
[1:34:35] do.
Uh but uh we we do our best to inform
[1:34:39] potential buyers of uh
what the um uh the rules of engagement
[1:34:44] are in the town of Mono.
[1:34:47] Sorry, Your Worship. I have my mic on
because of feedback.
[1:34:51] It's controlling the feedback a little
bit uh but yes, we do push all real
[1:34:54] estate to our website. Um we do have a
process now um where everybody can uh
[1:35:01] can uh put in a service request to uh to
get on the list of of the many questions
[1:35:06] that we do receive and uh and it seems
to be working fine. Um but yes, and we
[1:35:11] do have a lot of counter inquiries as
well and those would include uh Mono
[1:35:15] Plus, not so much Mono, but uh yeah,
they are out of uh out of boundary uh
[1:35:20] real estate uh properties and uh and we
find uh that generally
[1:35:25] uh they're they're getting answers
pretty quickly.
[1:35:32] Hello, I'm from South 25 Sideroad.
Um
[1:35:36] just a
comment before my question. It uh really
[1:35:40] I hopefully there'll be a DEI committee
next term as well as a heritage
[1:35:44] committee. I just wanted to maybe
uh ask that the heritage committee talk
[1:35:50] to the DEI committee so that the
heritage of Aboriginals may be
[1:35:54] considered within the scope of the
mandate of the heritage committee. That
[1:36:00] was my one comment.
My question is more concerning water. Um
[1:36:07] Is there any
policy within Mono to address
[1:36:14] agricultural infiltration or runoff?
Um especially people who may
[1:36:21] lease out their land to farmers who then
get a tax break for doing that.
[1:36:27] Maybe a farmer might I would say exploit
the land for their own usage and
[1:36:34] revenue.
And then
[1:36:37] um
then there might be this um
[1:36:41] synthetic fertilizer or high tillage
rate that would then affect the soil
[1:36:46] that that would
then would affect the water.
[1:36:50] So, my question is is there any policy
within Mono that addresses that at all?
[1:36:56] Thank you.
[1:36:59] I'm I'm
not aware of any policy. I mean
[1:37:03] and I know of one situation now where
I'm pretty sure a particular farmer
[1:37:08] has a manure storage site that's too
close to a stream
[1:37:11] that's causing problems downstream, but
I know of no
[1:37:14] power that the town has
and I'm not aware of any town that the
[1:37:18] conservation authority has
to do anything about it. We can say
[1:37:23] tisk tisk that you shouldn't do that,
but I I'm not aware of any policy
[1:37:28] or regulatory powers that exist if a
farmer wants to till too close to a
[1:37:33] stream or till too much or use too much
fertilizer or spread septic on a on a
[1:37:38] it's it's it's it can be a problem. I I
agree.
[1:37:44] Well can I ask you Yeah, just
[1:37:48] What about the drainage superintendent?
[1:37:51] So, drainage superintendent would only
be called in as far as I know where we
[1:37:56] have a municipal drain and we've only
got
[1:38:00] three or four municipal drains in the
town of Mono. One of them
[1:38:05] by the way is Yeah, it's going to be
cleaned out. I don't know if the
[1:38:09] drainage superintendent has the power
to tell a farmer to
[1:38:13] uh to keep you know, x number of meters
away from the municipal drain. You You
[1:38:19] probably
know more about that than I do, but uh
[1:38:22] I mean
conservation authorities have the power
[1:38:26] to limit development within
30 m of a provincially significant
[1:38:31] wetland. So, if it's a provincially
significant wetland, but that's only
[1:38:35] development. That's not stopping a
farmer from from plowing right up to the
[1:38:38] edge of the stream or quite frankly
right into the stream. I Andrew, you may
[1:38:42] know more about this than I do.
[1:38:46] No, but I don't want to open the time.
Sorry.
[1:38:50] Um I think it's a large subject. Um
there are regional
[1:38:57] individual superintendents and there are
um
[1:39:01] collections of the drainage
superintendents of Ontario that do
[1:39:05] proactive programming on keeping fencing
the cattle out of the streams, uh having
[1:39:10] a buffer to the stream, um and that
water's got to go somewhere and
[1:39:15] eventually it might end up in something
that's part of their mandate with
[1:39:19] respect to washing out a culvert under a
main tra- uh artery. So, there are
[1:39:24] creative ways that the drainage
superintendents might become an ally,
[1:39:28] but it's it's like in Simcoe County,
they're very proactive. Uh Holland
[1:39:32] Marsh, they're very proactive, but I
think it's very regional. It's It's just
[1:39:37] It's an asset that you might want to
make an inquiry about.
[1:39:41] Thank you. I If I can, uh my family has
been leasing land for farming for over
[1:39:47] 70 years now.
And we are very careful and I know
[1:39:51] others are very careful to specify what
can and cannot be done on that land. We
[1:39:57] for instance have said we don't want
soybeans.
[1:40:01] Winter wheat's great, oats are great.
But we have some control over what kind
[1:40:07] of farming goes on on that
20-acre parcel.
[1:40:12] And I would encourage landowners to to
do the same thing. They don't always.
[1:40:17] Very frequently they just
have a an agreement that their laneway
[1:40:22] gets plowed out
frequently and then return for that the
[1:40:26] farmer can do anything they want. I
think those days should be over.
[1:40:32] I think the OFA also has programs.
The Ontario Farming Association cuz I
[1:40:39] know I have one of those signs on my
property because we were careful about
[1:40:45] riparian
setback around the the creek and the
[1:40:49] manure pile being set back away from
running into the creek.
[1:40:54] And so
most
[1:40:58] farmers, good farmers will have an OFA
certificate and by doing that there's
[1:41:05] programs that are run through different
agencies to educate people on what goes
[1:41:11] on to those lands. But we do all know
that
[1:41:15] mass production
and massive yield are the priority to
[1:41:20] make massive money
and that impacts the bee
[1:41:25] population
and then that impacts us and there's a
[1:41:28] statistic that I don't have off the top
of my head, but after all the bees are
[1:41:33] dead
within about 7 days the planet will be
[1:41:37] gone. Like it's it's really
like
[1:41:41] crazy this number, but we do need to
take care of those things, so.
[1:41:49] I think it's provincial jurisdiction,
not municipal, but I will I'll look it
[1:41:54] pretty sure, but I'll
look it up and get back to you.
[1:42:01] Go ahead.
Hi, I'm Karen. Um
[1:42:05] Municipal drains are an interesting
thing
[1:42:08] because some they're not all equal, and
so I do wonder if they're even needed if
[1:42:13] we allow significant riparian and buffer
zones
[1:42:19] around where water drains to happen
naturally
[1:42:23] instead of channeling it
cleaning it out with
[1:42:28] big equipment that goes in and rips out
everything. It's it's not selective.
[1:42:32] It's not fine surgery where they just go
in and just do the drain, but they need
[1:42:37] zones on either side to actually clean
the drains, so
[1:42:41] you know, I like Andrew's thing about,
you know, land use, focusing on water
[1:42:46] first because maybe the education then
can be the importance of these zones
[1:42:52] to prevent um
having these drains
[1:42:57] you know, maybe we need some, do we need
all of them?
[1:43:00] » [clears throat]
>> The cost of cleaning out a drain, the
[1:43:03] cost to the to the climate
the cost of uh losing trees and natural
[1:43:08] vegetation like dogwood and willow
that's a huge cost because, you know,
[1:43:13] you talk about bees
um it's uh land should not be a
[1:43:17] commodity. It should be a community.
So.
[1:43:22] Thank you.
>> [applause]
[1:43:28] » Uh I just I wanted to uh add a comment
to your question. It's a good question
[1:43:33] with uh agricultural chemicals and
fertilizers, etc.
[1:43:38] Uh
a couple of months ago I attended the
[1:43:42] uh
Horning's Mills Community Hall. There
[1:43:45] was a presentation by Gary Hunter, who
is the hydrogeologist that did the study
[1:43:50] for the Strata Quarry,
proposed Strata Blast Quarry, etc. And
[1:43:56] although the
the uh
[1:43:59] initiative of that meeting was to
discuss aggregates and and uh the the
[1:44:04] figures were there for silica
and other uh chemicals or possible
[1:44:10] contaminants that could come up from
blasting,
[1:44:13] what also was included was the aggregate
or pardon me, the agricultural
[1:44:19] input into the Pine River and the Boyne
River. And what to look at those
[1:44:24] figures,
it's an eye-opener.
[1:44:27] And you think, that's a big problem. And
that's definitely a definitely a
[1:44:30] discussion for another day because it is
a it's a big issue that's not being
[1:44:34] addressed and
uh it does need to be.
[1:44:38] Can you can you clarify a little bit
more on that? You mean that it was
[1:44:42] brought up that not only as we as a as a
quarry, we're not going to do as much
[1:44:45] damage as the agriculture? Like how did
how did they get how how did the two If
[1:44:50] you were there to hear about the the
Why is it doing it?
[1:44:55] Um
could you just clarify a little bit more
[1:44:57] for me? Okay. Um
the the report that he was doing
[1:45:03] » [snorts]
>> had everything to do with with the uh
[1:45:05] with the aggregate pit
being converted to a quarry. So, his the
[1:45:10] uh the statistics that he had presented
were uh aggregate related, but also in
[1:45:16] those water tests
were also included, you know, what what
[1:45:21] other components there were. And the
agricultural chemicals and fertilizers
[1:45:26] were included there. So, it was just
happened to see it and everybody went,
[1:45:31] "Wow, that's that's a huge huge
problem."
[1:45:38] Near the questions.
[1:45:45] Not yet. Dale hasn't spoken.
[1:45:50] Dalton Hardy, a Mono resident.
[1:45:54] We have started a new uh recycle
program.
[1:46:01] How is that going?
One of the thing that uh
[1:46:06] hit me is that now we can recycle
plastic bags.
[1:46:11] Are we going to recede the bylaw that we
have in the town of Mono?
[1:46:14] Or we don't need that anymore because
they're recyclable?
[1:46:18] You mean where we can have plastic bags
again cuz they're recyclable? Yes. Yes.
[1:46:23] For the groceries.
There's no plans to recede that.
[1:46:28] But but to be honest, Dale, it
I don't think there's ever been a case
[1:46:32] of that bylaw being enforced because it
we we would rely on someone coming to us
[1:46:36] to report it and I don't think there's
ever been a report of
[1:46:42] If I'm saying there's as far as I know
there's no plans to recede the bylaw
[1:46:46] that we have on the books that says in
the retail business you can't use
[1:46:50] plastic bags. Do we get any feedback
from the how the
[1:46:55] No, just we we
[1:46:58] Dale Dale, if I can um just on the
recycling bins.
[1:47:03] Uh this is an initiative of the Ontario
government in conjunction with their
[1:47:08] uh their um provider of service which is
called uh
[1:47:13] uh circular materials. Uh I call them
circular arguments.
[1:47:18] And uh it is delivered to us by our um
county uh, contractor, which is Green
[1:47:24] for Life. I've got a lot of calls. We've
all got a lot of calls about the size of
[1:47:29] these bins.
>> [laughter]
[1:47:30] » Uh,
the mayor of Orangevale and myself, uh,
[1:47:33] joined forces to push back, and we were
successful in two regards. Number one,
[1:47:38] the start date was going to be January
1st, which of course is is absurd.
[1:47:43] Uh,
and we got that pushed back, but we also
[1:47:46] got the option of a smaller bin. It's
not that much smaller, but it's better
[1:47:51] than the really big bins. And we're
still getting complaints about bins
[1:47:55] blowing over, and that that's not even
getting into the issue of the
[1:47:59] unsightliness of those bins at the end
of people's driveways.
[1:48:05] Oh, I was just going to make, sorry, I
was just going to make one more comment
[1:48:07] on, but they're here to stay. They're
here to stay, and so we need to only put
[1:48:12] them out. I think that blowing over
thing, I was it it was remarkable the
[1:48:15] number of large bins that had been blown
over, cuz I think they've only got three
[1:48:19] or four little cans in the bottom of
them, right? I think that we need to
[1:48:22] wait to put our put them out until
they're heavy enough, because they
[1:48:26] themselves are are, um, get airborne
easily.
[1:48:30] Hi.
I'm Melissa Hayward. I'm a resident of
[1:48:34] Mono.
Um, I think we
[1:48:37] we all have opinions on the size of the
bins, and it's lovely that we can
[1:48:42] supposedly put more things in them.
My question is, how much of it how much
[1:48:48] of it actually does get recycled, which
may be beyond the scope of this meeting,
[1:48:54] but I've spoken to a number of people
who are in the industry,
[1:49:00] um, and I think this is an issue that
goes way beyond us. So, no, I don't
[1:49:05] think we should
>> [clears throat]
[1:49:05] » bring back plastic bags. It's that I
think a lot of it is being used
[1:49:11] by the plastics industry to convince us
to use more plastic, cuz the production
[1:49:17] of plastic has exploded in the last
decade.
[1:49:21] I mean, I know very much
um
[1:49:24] that it's really being recycled.
So, that I mean, it's not perhaps this
[1:49:29] isn't really a question, but maybe just
something that we all need to think
[1:49:34] about and maybe not get caught up in the
excitement [cough] that oh my gosh, I've
[1:49:40] got this great big bin and I can put
even more things in it than I could
[1:49:43] before.
They're not really getting diverted. And
[1:49:47] these are excellent. Can I make a
comment? They're Those are excellent
[1:49:50] comments and and um I personally only
ever put out my little recycling bin
[1:49:55] every 3 weeks or 4 weeks. Like, I don't
I don't generate that much. So, I'm
[1:49:58] certainly not going to put the big thing
out very very often. And you know,
[1:50:02] everybody's having to tuck the real
We're having to figure out how do we
[1:50:05] tuck it so away so that we can't see it.
And of course, in in our urban settings,
[1:50:09] it's like they're here and this is the
way it's going to be cuz you there's no
[1:50:12] re
Put the recycle bin in your garage or
[1:50:15] put the car in the garage. Which which
are you going to do, right?
[1:50:19] So, that and that and I think what's
going to come eventually will also be
[1:50:23] the big bin for garbage because if the
truck already has the ability to pick
[1:50:27] up, then you know, to to send out for
the garbage to have two men doing it.
[1:50:31] It's it's wasteful, right? But you're
absolutely right. This was brought about
[1:50:35] by the plastics companies because that's
the whole point of the government
[1:50:39] saying, "Well, we'll put it on to the
producers."
[1:50:42] But it but still, one day, even if there
is still stuff cuz I think it's bigger
[1:50:47] than it was before. That was the catch
thing. As Dells told us about the
[1:50:50] plastic bags, there's a few other things
too that were okay, great. I can put
[1:50:53] them in.
They may not be recycled now. They may
[1:50:57] We know that. We've seen behind the the
CBC Marketplace behind the curtain
[1:51:01] there, right? We've seen [clears throat]
that. But the at least it's separated
[1:51:05] from garbage so that when it it's going
to wherever and that if it one day you
[1:51:11] would
does spend the money on having the
[1:51:13] ability to process this plastic now and
cuz it's the sorting of it apparently is
[1:51:18] the difference, right? That of the
plastic. That I don't think it's that
[1:51:22] bad of an idea to continue to to recycle
cuz I almost want to with your comment I
[1:51:28] almost want to say yeah, you're right.
Just let's put it all in the garbage.
[1:51:30] And I don't Yeah, I think
Well, right. Yes.
[1:51:42] Yeah, that's a good idea.
Just in response, I I just wanted to add
[1:51:47] a little anecdote to this. I totally
agree with you.
[1:51:50] I I'm probably a bit older than you are
and I grew up in the Fraser Valley in
[1:51:54] British Columbia back in the late 1940s
and early 50s. We didn't have garbage
[1:51:58] pickup. We had a 45-gallon drum out the
back.
[1:52:02] And when we finished because our food
came the the butcher was wrapped in
[1:52:06] paper. Our our produce came in a paper
bag. We didn't have any plastic at all.
[1:52:11] Milk came in a in a glass bottle. We did
have tin cans and as as kids when the my
[1:52:18] father had lit the fire
after the fire, we got to pick a few tin
[1:52:22] cans out of the 45-gallon drum. But we
handled all our garbage on site just by
[1:52:27] basically by burning it and it was
basically some paper and maybe
[1:52:30] occasionally at Christmas a wooden box
of oranges from Japan. We could burn the
[1:52:35] wood in there, too. But we didn't have
plastic.
[1:52:40] Burning wasn't the answer though,
really.
[1:52:42] » Right. No, yeah, [clears throat] that's
not good for the atmosphere, but that's
[1:52:44] okay. But I love your term greenwashing.
I like that. Um I don't know how many of
[1:52:50] you subscribe to Environmental Defense,
but their most recent newsletter is
[1:52:55] about plastic. And MC Squared has done
in the past a few years ago a whole
[1:53:01] session on plastic to educate people
about how many
[1:53:06] balls of plastic they've gotten floating
around in their bodies because it
[1:53:09] they're ingesting it through everything.
Um and um there are islands
[1:53:16] massive islands of plastic in our oceans
>> [snorts]
[1:53:21] » killing our fish
going into the fish so that we eat it.
[1:53:26] So, it it's a huge issue. So, where is
it being recycled and what's happening
[1:53:31] in with it? I don't know. Has anybody
seen the movie Wall-E?
[1:53:37] Oh, yeah. We'll be shipping it into
space and plugging up the atmosphere up
[1:53:41] there with this stuff, too. Anyway.
Yeah, I know. It's so it's it's a
[1:53:47] it's a lesson for us to use less if we
can.
[1:53:55] Just Just one quick comment to add.
Uh yeah, I think it's obvious to
[1:54:00] everybody that just cuz you put it in a
recycling bin it doesn't necessarily get
[1:54:03] recycled. Um there are
I mean, there's a plant in Niagara
[1:54:08] Falls, New York that Canada was shipping
plastics to because they couldn't
[1:54:11] incinerate it for power. So, that's one
way of getting rid of it. We've had
[1:54:14] containers of plastic show up in foreign
country in other countries.
[1:54:18] Uh that's embarrassing as nationally, I
think. Um
[1:54:21] but I do I do support the new program
because it puts a cost to the producers
[1:54:26] of those and I think the hope is that it
leads to a reduction in the production
[1:54:31] of them if it becomes more costly and
less That That may be naive on my part,
[1:54:36] but I hope. [laughter] But I haven't
heard anything about any new recycling
[1:54:40] initiatives to actually use the plastic
bags that we put in our blue bin. And I
[1:54:43] just wondered if anybody else had.
[1:54:49] Only seeing the list of the new things
that you get to put in it, right? Which
[1:54:52] is the assumption. But you know that the
increased cost to the producer really
[1:54:56] just means increased cost to the
consumer, right? Like
[1:55:00] » raspberries for seven bucks?
>> [laughter]
[1:55:02] » Uh just a quick one. Being a person who
suffers from significant paranoia,
[1:55:08] I uh
I'm assuming that the big bins are
[1:55:13] moving towards
bi-weekly or bi-monthly or once a month
[1:55:18] pickups.
The other That's So that's the
[1:55:22] the question I had. When I saw the
propaganda come out at the beginning,
[1:55:26] one of the things that struck me is my
93-year-old
[1:55:30] neighbor who lives on a half-mile
long driveway.
[1:55:35] And she could live in that thing instead
of having to wheel it down to the
[1:55:40] And And so I I was They did say that if
you had that problem, they would send
[1:55:46] someone to pick it up at your house,
which I assumed was a lie, which is
[1:55:51] again my paranoia slipping out. But I
was just wondering if anyone had heard
[1:55:56] about that because
what these people are doing or what I'm
[1:56:00] doing, and I'm not 93, fortunately.
We'll never make it. But anyway,
[1:56:04] it it lives down at the end of my
driveway.
[1:56:07] And I have a nice little place to tuck
it in so people going over 60 on my road
[1:56:11] won't notice it. The people going the
speed limit will say, "Oh, Don's got it
[1:56:15] out." I went down Main Street,
Shelburne, the other day on garbage day.
[1:56:20] And it reminded me of Toronto. The only
difference is my kids in Toronto have
[1:56:25] four of these.
In In Shelburne, they only have one.
[1:56:29] But give us time. But this is my I think
you're you're all nodding.
[1:56:33] To think that that Green for Life truck
would go up my driveway to pick up my
[1:56:38] bin is beyond credibility, which was a
lot of the other stuff I saw as well. So
[1:56:44] paranoia lives. I'm glad to hear that
it's shared, and I'll pass this back.
[1:56:49] And that's that's a good point. But But
they they have politely offered that you
[1:56:54] can keep it at the end of your driveway
and then we'll be driving around here
[1:56:59] and before no time there'll be more blue
boxes than trees.
[1:57:05] If
Yeah. If if I can, I think it's an
[1:57:09] apocryphal tale that they'll drive up
your driveway. I've heard that by the
[1:57:14] way. You're absolutely right.
And and that that may have been an
[1:57:18] accommodation under the old system
that was presumed to continue under the
[1:57:23] new system. Um as far as I know the
frequency of pickup remains the same in
[1:57:29] Dufferin.
It has not in other jurisdictions such
[1:57:32] as Simcoe County
where they've gone back to the bi-weekly
[1:57:37] as opposed to weekly.
But you know as far as far as we're
[1:57:42] concerned it's probably going to go out
once every 3 weeks.
[1:57:46] And [snorts]
heavy enough that it won't blow over.
[1:57:54] Canute, the last comment.
[1:57:58] Well, I I I think personally that that
as long as
[1:58:02] countries are willing to start wars to
maintain the oil industry, I think we
[1:58:06] are dreaming for the short term. In the
meantime, paranoia continues.
[1:58:18] Well, I think we're coming to a natural
conclusion. I first wanted to thank
[1:58:23] everyone for coming out and
participating and asking some some good
[1:58:27] questions. I thought we had some
wonderful dialogue. I want to thank the
[1:58:30] members of council for coming up here
and I wanted to thank staff for taking
[1:58:36] time out of their weekend to be here. I
have one last comment that our special
[1:58:41] speaker would like to make.
[1:58:44] Thank you. I just wanted to thank
everybody here. I attend a lot of
[1:58:50] council meetings. The ones in Caledon go
to 1:00 a.m., but I leave at 9:30. Um
[1:58:57] I've never seen this kind of a
respectful dialogue. Uh normally people
[1:59:03] are angry as bees nest cuz something
hasn't been done. And I just want to
[1:59:08] congratulate you all for the community
relations that you have. It's really
[1:59:12] extraordinary. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> [applause]
[1:59:25] » AND JUST JUST ON BEHALF OF COUNCIL, I'D
like to thank everyone who who came out
[1:59:29] on a Saturday morning.
Uh we we love these town hall meetings,
[1:59:34] and this will not be the last one that
we hold. Thank you very much.
[1:59:40] » [applause]