1 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,119 call this meeting to order if we could have roll call, please. 2 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,040 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> present. 3 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,799 » Commissioner Asper, >> present. 4 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,320 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> present. 5 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,080 » Commissioner Lammore, >> present. 6 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,680 » Commissioner Venzel, >> present. 7 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,360 » Commissioner Schwart, >> present. 8 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,040 » Commissioner Moore, >> present. 9 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,400 » Commissioner Leven, >> present. Corum present. 10 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:26,600 » If we can all now rise for the pledge of allegiance led by Commissioner Hoffman 11 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:36,640 to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it 12 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:42,119 stands. One nation under God, indivisibley 13 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,119 and justice for all. 14 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:50,720 » We'll now have our opening prayer. Lord who enlightens, we ask for your 15 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:54,240 supernatural wisdom as we make some tough decisions in this meeting. Help us 16 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,520 to carefully consider the relevant information that has been gathered and 17 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:01,280 may those sharing information give us pertinent points so that we all clearly 18 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,960 understand. Help us to be innovative as we brainstorm solutions and help us to 19 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:08,640 wisely evaluate our options considering the pros and the cons. Help us to be 20 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:12,080 unified in making this best possible decisions and to effectively carry them 21 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:16,080 out. In your glorious name we pray. Amen. 22 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:19,120 » Amen. [clears throat] Now, if I could get a motion to approve 23 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,640 the agenda. >> So, moved. 24 00:02:20,239 --> 00:02:24,480 » Support. >> Moved by Lamore, supported by Levens. 25 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:28,720 Are there uh questions on the agenda? Additions? 26 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,400 » Seeing none, roll call, please. >> Commissioner Asper, 27 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,000 » yes. >> Commissioner Heinserling, 28 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,440 » yes. >> Commissioner Lammore, 29 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,879 » yes. >> Commissioner Venzel, 30 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,319 » yes. >> Commissioner Swart out, 31 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:37,760 » yes. >> Commissioner Moore, 32 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,200 » yes. >> Commissioner Levens, 33 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,640 » yes. >> Commissioner Hoffman, 34 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:43,840 » yes. >> Motion carries. Next on the agenda is 35 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,840 the approval of minutes from the February 3rd meeting. If we could get a 36 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,360 motion for that. >> I'll make a motion to approve it and uh 37 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,080 wave the reading thereof. >> I'll second that. 38 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:56,800 » Moved by SWAT, supported by Huffman. Are there questions, additions, corrections 39 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,599 to the minutes? >> Seeing none, roll call, please. 40 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,200 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 41 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,800 » Commissioner Asper, >> yes. 42 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:04,239 » Commissioner Heiserling, >> yes. 43 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,680 » Commissioner Lammore, >> yes. 44 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,200 » Commissioner Venzel, >> yes. 45 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,720 » Commissioner Swartout, >> yes. 46 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:10,159 » Commissioner Moore, >> yes. 47 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,920 » Commissioner Leven, >> yes. Motion carries. 48 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:19,319 » We'll now move into our first segment of public comment. Are there citizens who 49 00:03:15,519 --> 00:03:19,319 wish to address the board? 50 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:40,159 » Good evening, Lamar Frederick, Bedford Township Commissioners and Mr. Chairman. 51 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:46,480 I'm here this evening to address the first close session noted on the agenda 52 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:51,200 as it involves legal contest between Mr. Brandt and the county to propose to go 53 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:56,959 into close session to listen to legal advice on how to go forward. 54 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:03,280 I've been in your seats and understand that from time to time 55 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:07,920 serious issues arise that require decisions that have 56 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:13,280 farreaching implications. Tonight may be one of them for the 57 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:19,440 citizens of District 4 and the rest of the county. 58 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:24,880 I have had 20 years of personal and legal uh relationship with Tom Graham 59 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:30,160 and Phil Goldsmith and we've resolved many pathy issues. 60 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:34,000 I'm sure Mr. Goldsmith will provide the commissioners with the best legal advice 61 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:38,880 consistent with the current standing of the lawsuits. 62 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:44,479 However, citizens ha have the information that's been made public. 63 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:49,759 battles in the newspaper are not legal battles. 64 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:54,479 These cases have gone on far too long. The board has gone into close session 65 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:59,919 far too many times to discuss the way forward and all it announces we agree 66 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:04,160 with the advice of council. The decisions have resulted in the 67 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:08,000 standoff. Are we even sure Mr. Brandt wants to 68 00:05:05,919 --> 00:05:12,160 settle? Maybe it's time that all the issues and 69 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:16,960 advice be made public so that the citizens of the county have heard all of 70 00:05:14,479 --> 00:05:22,160 the legal advice and and can make a determination on their own regarding the 71 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:28,720 decisions you make. I know this is dangerous and it's not 72 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:34,240 often done, but maybe it's time. It's your decision that Mr. Goldsmith or 73 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:40,880 Mr. Graham will give you legal consequences of both options. 74 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:45,280 Transparency and throwing light on the issues is sometimes the best course of 75 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:51,919 action. A long time ago, I was on a telephone 76 00:05:47,919 --> 00:05:57,840 hearing with a judge from the South. I made this brilliant 77 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:02,320 argument about the issue that my company was interested in. 78 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:08,800 When I was done, the judge said, "Mr. Frederick, are you done?" "Yes, sir, I 79 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:12,600 am." That dog don't hunt. So you know what happened to my argument. 80 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:20,319 Commissioners, your dog is in the field right now. 81 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:25,600 Will your dog hunt or will you have to look for another dog? Do you have enough 82 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:29,520 people tonight to go to close session? Because I've been here before when you 83 00:06:27,919 --> 00:06:37,720 didn't have sufficient number of people here to do that. So what is your plan B? 84 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,720 And you better have one. Thank you. 85 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:49,199 » Hello, commissioners. Thank you. Thanks, Chairman Vencel. Um, I'm from District 2 86 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:53,199 and I can't do much better than that. So, I just want to add I was planning to 87 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:56,479 come tonight because I do read the papers and I have been tracking what's 88 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:02,240 going on. And so, of course, I was pretty startled um to hear that there 89 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:06,160 were mistakes made that are beyond my legal comprehending. 90 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:10,479 But I think when I saw the word settlement on the agenda, that's when I 91 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:14,960 got confused and also super concerned because to me, a settlement implies that 92 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:20,080 there will be things that are not known to the general public. And I think 93 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:26,400 because we have all been dragged along on this long haul, I really hope that 94 00:07:23,039 --> 00:07:30,720 you are fully transparent with us. I did write a note about Mark Brandt's um 95 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:35,440 letter of resignation, just a sentence from that letter of resignation back in 96 00:07:32,479 --> 00:07:39,759 September of 2024 when he said, "I don't want my personal circumstance to 97 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:45,440 interfere with the smooth operation of the county that I so dearly love." 98 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:50,479 I think that's worth remembering that he said those things and yet his 99 00:07:47,919 --> 00:07:57,360 personal circumstance has certainly interfered for two years now 100 00:07:54,879 --> 00:08:02,080 and he's cost this county dearly in money and in trust. And it does seem to 101 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:06,319 me one of my questions is it seems that the only person who's really paid a 102 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:10,560 price for this is Andrea Armstrong if I'm not mistaken. 103 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:15,120 And I and I don't get it. So that's why I, you know, you've seen me before, I'm 104 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:19,840 here again and I'm saying the same kinds of things. Another point to remember, I 105 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:25,039 think, when you go into close session and if there is some kind of settlement, 106 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:30,319 only 9% of the people who voted in this last election in November, only 9% voted 107 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:35,919 for Brandt. And if you put that another way, one in 10 people, it's less than 108 00:08:32,719 --> 00:08:39,479 one person in a group of 10. So that's that's a rebuke. 109 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:46,480 But the damage I think it goes further than Brandt and that's where you know 110 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:51,360 you as commissioners and leaders really come into play and we do have to see 111 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:57,440 this county take accountability even if it's uncomfortable and the vacuum of 112 00:08:54,399 --> 00:09:02,720 information. That's the piece that sews mistrust and doubt and lack of faith in 113 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:07,519 our local government and we're left with these conjectures and the theories and 114 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:11,440 that's when things get really bad. We we're seeing it. We're seeing it as a 115 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:16,240 country, but here on our local level, people are left to just spin. So, I do 116 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:20,399 think that the only way to move forward is by moving through. And my request 117 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:25,760 would be that you would stay the course and return to courts. I know that 118 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:30,560 involves money, but it's really what you owe to the 119 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,959 people of District 2 who've been paying the taxes and funding this local 120 00:09:32,959 --> 00:09:40,760 government. So, I hope you take that into consideration no matter what you 121 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,760 decide. Thank you so much. 122 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:50,720 » Are there any other citizens who wish to address the board? Thank you. 123 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,399 » Yes, thank you. My name is Helen Chorus Herrian. I'm a resident of Monroe 124 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:58,800 County. Um, I've been coming to these meetings for a little bit and getting 125 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:02,880 caught up on what's been going on. Um, I'm not a a resident of District 2, but 126 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:07,040 I'm I'm here as a concerned Monroe County resident. 127 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:12,480 As we just learned, the Michigan Court of Appeals was clear. The question of 128 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:18,320 who lawfully holds the District 2 seat should have been filed through a quot 129 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:23,600 action. And I' I'd like to see other people pronounce that tonight because 130 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:26,880 it's a tongue twister. Um, but we've done our research to understand it. That 131 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:31,120 is the legal process that challenges whether someone has the legal right to 132 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:35,440 hold public office. Again, we see on today's agenda the 133 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:42,000 words trial/settlement strategy. And I urge the board first 134 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:46,000 um to explain the nature of any settlement 135 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:50,640 and second to complete the proper legal action to close the matter. 136 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:55,839 My next item is I would urge the board to update to adopt updated ethics 137 00:10:53,279 --> 00:11:00,160 guidelines for commissioners. What we are experiencing now should never happen 138 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:03,279 again. The situation has exposed serious gaps in our county's governance 139 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,640 policies. We need clear ethics rules that address 140 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:12,320 what happens when a commissioner is convicted of a felony, standards for 141 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:16,880 financial conflicts of interest, clear disclosure requirements for 142 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:22,959 business activities, and automatic triggers for removal or suspension when 143 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:28,160 legal eligibility is lost. These aren't just theoretical concerns in our county. 144 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:32,959 Strong ethics policies would protect both commissioners and taxpayers. This 145 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:36,240 county has important work to do. Every meeting spent on this unresolved 146 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,399 situation is time and money diverted from the people's business. 147 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,680 The citizens of Monroe County are watching because we care about our 148 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:47,200 community. We expect our elected officials to follow the law and to act 149 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:51,120 with transparency and to put the public interest first. 150 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:56,160 In summary, I respectfully ask this board to file the Quo Waronto action to 151 00:11:54,160 --> 00:12:02,720 provide transparency on any related investigation timeline and process and 152 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:08,120 to commit to updating ethics guidelines. Thank you for your time and for your 153 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,120 service to Monroe County. 154 00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:24,560 Gail Kaine, District 8. I've been here before. 155 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:28,959 Tonight, I want to remind you that there is a mission statement. That is one 156 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:34,959 thing that's clear within your little packages of your oath of office and that 157 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:39,279 you are to perform your legally constituted responsibilities, 158 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:44,480 which is to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the residents of our 159 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:49,920 community and our employees. Now, by community, I'm not talking District 8. 160 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:53,839 I'm talking the county. Sadly, some of our commissioners sit 161 00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:59,200 here, shouldn't be sitting here, but that's beside the point. You're here and 162 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,639 you have a job and you took an oath. The board is to demonstrate fiscal 163 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:08,160 responsibility. You're to maintain credibility and to 164 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:13,680 build public trust and assume leadership in the development and improvement of 165 00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:21,360 county services and programs. We are spending too much time taking 166 00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:25,920 care of districts to dirty work. The board is to provide the delivery of 167 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:30,880 services through cooperative interaction with all other units of government and 168 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:37,600 community agencies. I too became concerned when I read the 169 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:43,040 words regarding trial slash settlement strategy. 170 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:49,680 Close session is needed if you're going to be discussing strategy. I don't see 171 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:54,959 Mr. Brandt's attorney sitting here and publicly announcing what their next move 172 00:13:52,079 --> 00:14:00,160 is to attack the county. You shouldn't have to get disclose that 173 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:04,320 at this point in time. If there is a settlement that's being arranged, it's 174 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:09,440 got to be discussed. And I can understand why you would want to do that 175 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:14,160 behind closed doors. But fellas, sooner or later, this has got to come out. We 176 00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:18,720 need to hear everything. What we read in the paper, I don't trust anymore. It's 177 00:14:16,959 --> 00:14:25,360 not my local news. It's written by people with AI help. Uh I don't 178 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:33,199 understand the legal mumbo jumble. You have done a good job in what you can 179 00:14:28,959 --> 00:14:38,320 do in good faith and on behalf of the well-being. 180 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:43,760 It's sad to think that our clerk of the county is being attacked or brought into 181 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:50,959 this because I don't think that she at all would intentionally create any harm 182 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:56,800 or put any question into the legalities of how we run elections here. And that's 183 00:14:53,440 --> 00:15:02,000 being attacked on all fronts nationwide. And it's very, very disturbing to think 184 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:07,839 that now we're being dragged into that mud. 185 00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:13,680 It's time for the county to take care of their business, but at the same time, 186 00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:20,480 you've got to make the decision what is in the best judgment for all of us. 187 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:28,240 District 4 or district 2, I'm sorry, has the job to take care of the problem. 188 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:32,000 They must step forward and assume the responsibility 189 00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:37,760 to recall by an election those that they do not 190 00:15:35,199 --> 00:15:42,800 want to sit in that chair right over there. That's their responsibility, not 191 00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:49,120 yours. You can call into question what he has 192 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:55,360 done and you were how you were advised is of utmost importance. And it bothers 193 00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:59,279 me to think that there is another court out there that's questioning our legal 194 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:06,639 counsel. This is a mess. It is It's worse than 195 00:16:03,199 --> 00:16:11,040 the honeypot and Winnie the Pooh. It is a blustery day. And you know what is 196 00:16:08,959 --> 00:16:15,839 going to hit the fan? It has already happened. 197 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:21,120 So, you need to shake your feet, get this stuff off of you, clean up 198 00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:28,399 whatever process you've got in the makings, and let us know what you need 199 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:34,120 us to do. And District 2 needs to step up and take care of business. Thank you. 200 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,720 » Are there any other citizens who wish to address the board? 201 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:47,040 Uh seeing none, we'll move into the next agenda items. Uh our next three items 202 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:52,240 involve closed sessions. Uh each uh close session needs a separate vote. Uh 203 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:56,160 the voting u uh thresholds for each one are a little bit different. Uh two of 204 00:16:54,000 --> 00:17:00,560 them take six to move into close session. The collective bargaining takes 205 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:04,480 uh five. Uh so I'd like to start with the first one and get a motion on the 206 00:17:02,079 --> 00:17:07,760 table. And uh if we we need to have discussion, if we need further 207 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,600 explanation from Mr. Goldmith on this first one, then we'll do it after the 208 00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:12,799 motion's made. >> Mr. Chairman, I would move that we not 209 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:15,120 go into close session, discuss this publicly. 210 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,559 » Second. >> Is there support? 211 00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:23,839 » Second. >> Moved by Commissioner Moore, supported 212 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:29,799 by Commissioner Asper uh to conduct this business in open session. Are now there 213 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,799 questions or comments? 214 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,520 I would just say my vote for this would be yes just because although we're 215 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,200 permitted to go into close session, we're not required to go into close 216 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,840 session. We promise the public transparency on this issue and I feel it 217 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,000 would be best if we discuss this publicly. And then I also have some 218 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:50,320 legal questions about the opens meeting act 15.268e 268E which says we can 219 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:54,799 consult with attorney regarding trial or settlement strategy in connection with 220 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:58,720 specific pending litigation but only if an open meeting would have detrimental 221 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,720 financial effect on the litigating settlement. I don't see any financial 222 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:10,000 effect. No, no one's being sued in this. So I would maybe make an argue that we 223 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:13,360 can't go into close session on this. >> Other comments or questions? 224 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:17,120 Commissioner Levens, >> based on Commissioner Moore's uh most 225 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:21,360 recent comment, maybe this would be something that legal counsel would 226 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:25,679 advise us on their opinion. We're represented by council in this matter on 227 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:30,400 the merits of whether we should or not go into close session and whether we can 228 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:34,400 go in close session. So, I don't know if it's Phil or Tom that wishes to speak 229 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:38,799 that, Mr. Chairman, but I think before we do a vote, we should hear from the 230 00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:42,080 people that we've hired to represent us in this matter. 231 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:53,120 Your first question uh can we go into close session? Yes. Uh this 232 00:18:49,888 --> 00:18:58,640 [clears throat] is to uh discuss uh trial strategy. The uh opponent uh on 233 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:05,120 the other side of this lawsuit. Mr. Brandt is in the uh is in the room here 234 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:10,080 tonight. So for you to discuss strategy in his presence would be inappropriate. 235 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:14,240 Uh, is there a financial stake at interest? Yes, there is. Uh, there's 236 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:19,760 there [clears throat] is an unresolved issue um regarding whether or not Mr. 237 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:24,320 Brandt should be compensated as a county commissioner during the time that he was 238 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:28,640 imprisoned in federal prison. That's an open issue uh that hasn't yet been 239 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,919 decided by the court. So there is a financial interest and there's always a 240 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:38,559 financial interest for each each side of a dispute to consider and that's the 241 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:45,360 payment of additional attorney fees. So there is a financial stake at issue here 242 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:50,240 and this would be to discuss uh uh strategy in going forward. the the words 243 00:19:48,838 --> 00:19:56,799 [clears throat] that were used in the agenda uh comes directly from uh the uh 244 00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:02,559 open meetings act that that comes from the statute to discuss uh trial or 245 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:07,833 settlement strategy. So um my legal opinion is you have the right to go into 246 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:12,559 close session. Um so uh secondly, [clears throat] 247 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:17,840 should we go into close session? Um my legal opinion is yes. if you want to be 248 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:22,960 able to to talk about strategy and moving forward. Uh and I want to talk to 249 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:28,720 you about the court of appeals decision. Um uh there's many many uh facets of 250 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:32,159 that uh court of appeals decision that I believe should be addressed. Um so 251 00:20:31,414 --> 00:20:36,720 [clears throat] uh my recommendation, my legal opinion 252 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:43,200 is a you have the authority to go into close session and b you should go into 253 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:46,799 close session to discuss these matters. >> Any questions? Yes, Commissioner Asper. 254 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:52,320 » I would just say that uh from the comments that were made at the podium, 255 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:57,600 it's very clear to me that the um that the constituents have really no idea uh 256 00:20:55,919 --> 00:21:03,039 everything that's gone on from the beginning and what the law is with 257 00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:08,080 regard to county commissioners. And some of the comments that were made I thought 258 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:13,520 were very interesting because I know what the impressions are that the public 259 00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:18,559 has given but um they weren't here a couple years ago. And what has been 260 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:24,799 happening during this time is we continue to have commissioners who are 261 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:30,240 not advised of what's going on sometimes. And at this point, um, what 262 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:35,360 ends up going is we go into close session and then we come out with a vote 263 00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:40,480 that some of us are against, but it's represented as if we're all together in 264 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:45,039 this. Um, the original injunction was filed by the county. It was not filed by 265 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Mr. Brandt. Um, and there are a lot of laws that have to do with commissioners, 266 00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:53,039 whether you like them or not. There are a lot of laws that have to do with 267 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:57,760 commissioners that aren't what you might think or what you might want, but they 268 00:21:55,039 --> 00:22:02,720 are the law. And and so we have been guided for the last year and a half in 269 00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:09,840 my opinion, not in a good way. I believe that we 270 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:13,280 were not uh properly um counseledled or I what I won't say we weren't properly 271 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:18,320 counseledled because that ends up being an opinion. What I would say is what we 272 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:24,320 were trying to say from the beginning was not followed and now here we are 273 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:28,320 back at square one spending more money getting ready to spend more money and if 274 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:32,880 we go into close session and then we come out then they vote it doesn't 275 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:37,039 require a twothirds we end up spending the money. So there are other districts 276 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:42,320 other than district two who have been hurt by this. We cannot res represent 277 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:45,320 our constituents either. Any 278 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,240 other comments or questions? 279 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:58,240 » Just for clarification, it's it's not a uh 280 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:01,440 a we or a they vote when you come out of close session. This is a nine member 281 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,240 board. And the beauty of a nine member board is you collectively make 282 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:11,360 decisions. in all the boards I've served on during my career, doesn't matter 283 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:16,640 whether it's a 5-4 vote or a 5-3 vote or a 62 vote. Um, when you come out of that 284 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:20,159 vote, it's it's the the collective decision of the entire board and the 285 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:27,600 entire board takes responsibility and owns that vote. So, it's not a matter 286 00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:31,039 it's unwise to pit uh they against uh others on the board that are in the 287 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,880 minority at this point because this is a collective decision. So, um, any other, 288 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:39,440 if there are no other questions, I'm going to call for the vote. Yes. 289 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:44,640 » Uh, the other question is the meetings that happen after the meetings. So, I 290 00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:48,960 think we have to address that. If you're going to claim that if it's the whole 291 00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:53,039 board, there shouldn't there should not be meetings after meetings when we have 292 00:23:51,679 --> 00:23:57,840 when we have our agenda meetings. >> I'm not sure what your accusation is. 293 00:23:54,799 --> 00:24:01,760 » Okay. I'm not making an accusation. I'm making an observation that every time we 294 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:05,200 have an agenda meeting, there's usually a meeting before it and there's a 295 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:08,080 meeting after it. And it doesn't include some of us. 296 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,559 » It what it included the other night were the two leaders of the board, the 297 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,320 chairman and the vice chairman that sought advice from legal counsel on how 298 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,400 we were going to move forward on some of these matters in particular the closed 299 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:22,000 session matters. So that's not that's not a case of going behind the 300 00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:26,159 » agenda meeting about that. We we should have talked at the meeting about that. 301 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:31,440 » We can respectfully disagree on that. >> You're right. Any other comments? 302 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:36,320 Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Hoffman. 303 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,240 » Yes, we want to go into close session. >> Well, 304 00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:43,279 » motion is for open. >> The motion is to go into close uh to to 305 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:47,360 stay in open session for this. >> No. 306 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,799 » Commissioner Asper, >> yes. 307 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,600 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> no. 308 00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:56,880 » Commissioner Lammore, >> no. Commissioner Venzel, 309 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,440 » no. >> Commissioner Swart out, 310 00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,679 » yes. >> Commissioner Moore, 311 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,720 » yes. >> Commissioner Levens, 312 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,720 » no. 313 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,720 » Motion does not carry. 314 00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:20,080 » Okay. Now, I would entertain a motion to go into close session on this matter. 315 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,880 » So moved. >> Seconded. 316 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:29,559 » Moved by Lamore, supported by Huffman. Uh, are there questions on moving into 317 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,559 close session for the Brandt litigation? 318 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:36,880 Seeing none, roll call, please. >> Commissioner Asper, 319 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:41,279 » would you repeat the motion? >> The motion is to move into close session 320 00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:45,120 uh to consult with county legal council regarding trial settlement strategy in 321 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:48,720 connection with specific pending litigation captioned Monroe County and 322 00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:54,080 the Monroe County Board of Commissioners versus Mark Brandt. Monroe County uh and 323 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:57,799 Monroe County Board uh circuit court case number 25-149222 324 00:25:57,919 --> 00:26:04,559 uh CZ and Mark Brandt versus Monroe County Board of Commissioners, Monroe 325 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,559 County Circuit Court case number 25-149230- 326 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:17,720 CZ pursuant to section 8 uh 1E of the Open Meetings Act MCL5.2681E. 327 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,480 No. >> Commissioner Heinderling. 328 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,240 » Yes. >> Commissioner Lammore. 329 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,159 » Yes. >> Commissioner Venzel. 330 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,400 » Yes. >> Commissioner Schwart out. 331 00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,720 » No. >> Commissioner Moore. 332 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:35,360 » No. >> Commissioner Levens. 333 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,279 » Yes. >> Commissioner Hoffman. 334 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,840 » Yes. >> Motion does not carry. 335 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,679 » Okay. So, what I would suggest is let's let's move on to the next closed 336 00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:50,080 sessions. uh and then we can make a decision whether we uh u take this up in 337 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,640 open session when we come back from the other two close sessions. 338 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:57,440 » I'll make a motion to go into close session regarding the confidential 339 00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:02,640 attorney client communication pursuant to MCL 15.2681H 340 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:08,400 regarding the forensic audit. >> Second. 341 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:10,960 » Any questions on this motion? >> Hearing none. Roll call, please. 342 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,840 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. Commissioner Asper, 343 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,919 » no. >> Commissioner Heinserling, 344 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,679 » yes. >> Commissioner Lammore, 345 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,080 » yes. >> Commissioner Venzel, 346 00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:22,320 » yes. >> Commissioner Swart out, 347 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:24,400 » no. >> Commissioner Moore, 348 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:27,600 » no. >> Commissioner Leven, 349 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:32,240 » yes. >> Motion does not carry. 350 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:36,960 » Okay. The final uh close session uh request uh uh is the close session to 351 00:27:35,679 --> 00:27:43,200 discuss collective bargaining negotiations pursuant to MCL5.2681. 352 00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:44,799 2681C. Could I get a motion for this? >> So moved. 353 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,559 » Support. >> Moved by Lamore, supported by Leven. Are 354 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:53,360 there questions on this motion? >> Hearing none. Roll call, please. 355 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,600 » Commissioner Moore, >> no. 356 00:27:54,399 --> 00:27:57,919 » Commissioner Levens, >> yes. 357 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,320 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 358 00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:02,720 » Commissioner Asper, >> no. 359 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,799 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> yes. 360 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,720 » Commissioner Lammore, >> yes. 361 00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:08,799 » Commissioner Venzel, >> yes. 362 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,200 » Commissioner Schwart, >> no. 363 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:19,399 Motion carries. >> Okay. We will now move into close 364 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,399 session uh for collective bargaining. 365 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:29,039 » Oh, that's right. We are going to uh stay here. No, 366 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,159 » we're moving. >> We're moving. So, you can stay here. 367 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,480 This is a sad day for county. 368 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:56,720 motion to reenter open session. >> Moved by Lamore, supported by Schwart 369 01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:59,040 out. Um, any questions on this motion? Roll call, please. 370 01:02:57,839 --> 01:03:02,079 » Commissioner Hoffman. >> Yes. 371 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:07,040 » Commissioner Asper. Are we are we voting on coming back in 372 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,880 or are we voting on the motion? >> We're voting on to come back into open 373 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,440 space. >> Coming into Okay. Yes. 374 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:14,079 » It was suggested by legal counsel that we do that. 375 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,680 » Commissioner Heinserling. >> Yes. 376 01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,200 » Commissioner Lammore. >> Yes. 377 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,559 » Commissioner Venzel. >> Yes. 378 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,839 » Commissioner Swart out. >> Yes. 379 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,119 » Commissioner Moore? >> Yes. 380 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:24,680 » Commissioner Levens? >> Yes. 381 01:03:21,359 --> 01:03:24,680 » Motion carries. 382 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:32,000 » Okay. Next up will be what would have been a close session regarding u um a 383 01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:37,039 consultation with county legal council regarding the the the brand litigation. 384 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:43,160 Uh we'll now do an open session. I would like uh uh Mr. Goldmith to come come up 385 01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,160 and begin. 386 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,640 » I'm going to >> Mr. Chairman, could I just ask a 387 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:59,599 question quickly? Do do we need a vote on to follow advice of councel from the 388 01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:02,160 close session or no? >> No, 389 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,119 » we do not. >> I asked the labor attorney. He said no 390 01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,119 motion. >> Okay. Just wanted to double check. I 391 01:04:06,559 --> 01:04:09,839 didn't hear that. >> Okay. So, we didn't make a decision 392 01:04:08,799 --> 01:04:12,799 then. >> I think we came to 393 01:04:12,319 --> 01:04:16,640 a >> I don't think we came to an 394 01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,599 understanding of what was going to happen. 395 01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:22,640 » Well, we didn't ask anyone to do that because we can't do that in closed 396 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:25,440 session. We can only do that in open session. 397 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,079 » Yeah. Just anything we've discussed in decisions we've made in close session, 398 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,640 we've usually had a vote on that. I just don't know what changed that 399 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,200 » in open session. Yeah. >> Could I Well, we can do it then. Could I 400 01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:37,359 ask >> You can't make a decision. 401 01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:41,760 » A motion to uh uh move on the recommendations made in close session to 402 01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:46,119 uh uh human resources director Jeff McB and uh labor council. 403 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:52,960 » I moved by myself supported by Lamore. Any questions on this motion? I just 404 01:04:50,319 --> 01:04:56,960 have one comment that uh um anything that comes of our close session would 405 01:04:54,799 --> 01:05:02,640 necessarily come back before the vote the board for a final vote on how the 406 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:08,960 negotiations uh conclude whether it's a yay or nay because that closed session 407 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:14,480 as the as the as the agenda indicated was uh to discuss discuss bargaining 408 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:19,039 negotiations. It wasn't to discuss a final you know outcome for a yay or nay. 409 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:21,839 This is just uh proceeding ahead. So, I just wanted to clarify for the audience 410 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:25,200 because some of the closed session is presenting a little bit of a mystery. 411 01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:30,000 So, what we're what we're doing today, at least for the the the close session 412 01:05:27,359 --> 01:05:34,480 bargaining for our employees is negotiation. And we don't know what 413 01:05:31,839 --> 01:05:38,880 those negotiations are going to um produce. And when they do, that would be 414 01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:43,920 another vote. >> Which would then be on the agenda in its 415 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:48,000 full particulars. >> That would be an open session. in open 416 01:05:45,839 --> 01:05:51,799 session. I have nothing for the chairman. 417 01:05:51,839 --> 01:05:55,359 » Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Heinserling, 418 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,960 » yes. >> Commissioner Lammore, 419 01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,319 » yes. >> Commissioner Venzel, 420 01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,760 » yes. >> Commissioner Swart out, 421 01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:01,520 » yes. >> Commissioner Moore, 422 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,359 » no. >> Commissioner Levens, 423 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,799 » yes. >> Commissioner Hoffman, 424 01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,640 » yes. >> Commissioner Asper, 425 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,960 » no. >> Motion carries. 426 01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:19,920 » Okay, we'll now turn it over to Mr. Goldmith. Okay, I'm going to uh address 427 01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:27,440 the uh Michigan Court of Appeals uh decision and opinion that was uh 428 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:33,280 recently released. Um, so it will come as no mystery to this board or to anyone 429 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:40,480 in the uh public who's been following this that the singular issue that the 430 01:06:37,839 --> 01:06:49,200 county presented first to the trial court and then to the court of appeals 431 01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:54,960 uh is based on MCL 46.411 411 and that was recognized uh by the court of 432 01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:59,839 appeals in its in its uh decision. Um it's under the heading uh D issues that 433 01:06:57,599 --> 01:07:03,599 are and are not properly resolved at this time. 434 01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:10,079 So, the [clears throat] county asked for declaratory judgment, which with all due 435 01:07:07,119 --> 01:07:14,960 respect to the court of appeals, uh, was the proper way to go about doing this 436 01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:23,039 because what the county asked for through me as county legal counsel was 437 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:29,520 whether or not on January 1, 2025, Mark Brandt was a qualified elector and 438 01:07:26,559 --> 01:07:35,440 thus a registered voter because 46 6 as recognized by the court 439 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:40,160 of appeals. Uh they state the trial court aired when it granted Brandt a 440 01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:45,520 declaratory judgment that his incarceration in another state did not 441 01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:50,640 act to vacate his seat because the trial court did not address or decide 442 01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:57,440 potentially dispositive legal issues raised by the parties below. 443 01:07:53,440 --> 01:08:02,720 The court did not decide potentially dispositive legal issues raised by the 444 01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:09,200 parties below. The issue that I raised in all the briefing uh that was done uh 445 01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:17,759 to the court of appeals was was Mark Brandt on January 1, 2025 a qualified 446 01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:24,000 elector. He had not yet taken office at that time. he couldn't take office at 447 01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:29,199 that time because he was incarcerated in a federal prison in West Virginia. So 448 01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:34,080 the statute and the court of appeals quotes a part of it. A candidate for the 449 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:37,920 office of county commissioner must be a resident and registered voter of the 450 01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:43,120 district that he or she seeks to represent and must remain a resident and 451 01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:49,040 registered voter to hold his or her office if elected. Mark Brandt never 452 01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:54,080 took his office on January 1 because he couldn't take his office. And it is the 453 01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:59,359 argument uh that we put forth to the trial court and to the court of appeals 454 01:08:56,799 --> 01:09:04,887 that he couldn't take office uh because he was incarcerated. And so if you rely 455 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:08,880 on 46.411, 411, the two sections [clears throat] of the Michigan 456 01:09:05,759 --> 01:09:13,839 Constitution of 1963 that were quoted and the various uh uh stat statutes that 457 01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:20,719 we quoted which are part of the body of Michigan election law. Uh that was a 458 01:09:17,440 --> 01:09:26,560 that was a declaratory action decision. Uh the court the court in my view should 459 01:09:24,239 --> 01:09:29,920 have said and the the trial court didn't address it and the court of appeals 460 01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:35,759 found fault with the trial court for not addressing it. In my view, the trial 461 01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:41,759 court needed to say either he was a qualified elector or he wasn't a 462 01:09:38,480 --> 01:09:46,799 qualified elector on January one. If the court would have and that's a 463 01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:52,719 declaratory judgment if if he wasn't a qualified elector um then he couldn't 464 01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:57,360 take office. The second question that I asked the court to decide, if you 465 01:09:54,640 --> 01:10:05,148 determine that he was that he was not a qualified elector, does that operate to 466 01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:12,000 vacate his entire term of office? I I [clears throat] just want to just want 467 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:17,520 to uh make mention of this. So, what if now Mr. Brandt was sentenced to serve 18 468 01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:22,960 months? He ser he served less than 18 months. But what if he was convicted of 469 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:28,728 a felony that required a four-year prison sentence? That's what I wanted 470 01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:34,000 the the court to decide. Um [clears throat] his inability to take 471 01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:39,199 office. Uh does that disqualify him for the entire term or just a portion of of 472 01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:42,960 the term? If he were in prison for four years, the court would have had to 473 01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:48,560 answer this question and still has to answer this question. Uh does that mean 474 01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:52,560 that the the office remains vacant? If they in other words, if they if the 475 01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:57,920 court would have answered the question this way that he was a qualified 476 01:10:55,360 --> 01:11:02,719 elector, but he can't serve because you got to be present to serve, does that 477 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:06,480 vacate the the office for the entire four-year period? The court didn't 478 01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:13,360 answer those questions. The court of appeals found fault with that. So that 479 01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:18,640 is a declaratory action uh type of a judgment that the court didn't make. The 480 01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:23,120 court of appeals addressed that with respect to quo warrantto 481 01:11:21,784 --> 01:11:29,920 [clears throat] the the court finds fault that neither party pled this as a 482 01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:35,600 a quo warrantto action. But interestingly, uh, the court also points 483 01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:41,199 out what which I raised, um, in my briefing to the court of appeals, uh, 484 01:11:38,239 --> 01:11:46,400 was whether or not the county was even in the position to raise a quote warrant 485 01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:51,760 action. And there's there's cases on that. There's appellet cases on it. And 486 01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:56,400 that's recognized uh by the by the court of appeals in its decision. um 487 01:11:55,189 --> 01:12:03,920 [clears throat] when they talk about core quo warrantto 488 01:11:58,719 --> 01:12:11,280 um they they raise MCR 3.306b2 which is the quot warrant quo warrantto 489 01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:15,360 court rule. Um they state which of these procedural hurdles applies in this 490 01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:20,560 instance may well depend on the proper interpretation of the phrase an office 491 01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:26,320 in a public corporation created by this state's authority. So to backtrack, that 492 01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:31,199 court rule requires a quote warrant action to be brought by uh by a public 493 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:36,159 corporation. And the [clears throat] court of appeals 494 01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:41,440 properly recognizes that they state specifically courts have not yet 495 01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:46,719 resolved the parameters of this uh definition. So the court of appeals 496 01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:51,679 recognizes that well uh maybe even Monroe County in the context of the quo 497 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:57,920 warrantal court rule is not a public corporation that can even request uh a 498 01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:03,760 quo warrantal action or can even request the attorney general uh to take on a 499 01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:10,719 quote warrantal action. They also raised the question of of whether or not uh the 500 01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:16,320 county of Monroe is a person uh that could request the attorney 501 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:21,520 general to bring a quote warrant action. That that's been a little better 502 01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:27,760 defined. Goes back to a 1971 court of appeals decision. Uh so that's been a 503 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:34,000 little bit better defined. So, um I I stand by the way we presented this case 504 01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:40,960 because what needed to be answered was on January 20 on January 1, 2025, was 505 01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:45,840 Mr. Brand a qualified elector if the court and unfortunately the the trial 506 01:13:43,679 --> 01:13:53,600 court didn't address that issue and I raised that in our cross appeal. So, 507 01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:59,440 where are we at now? Um this it's been mentioned that well you have 508 01:13:55,600 --> 01:14:05,440 to if we we're back uh we're back to to uh uh ground level here. I would 509 01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:10,080 respectfully submit that that's that is not the case. We're not back to ground 510 01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:14,480 level. All the arguments that were made both to the trial court and to the court 511 01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:20,719 of appeals are arguments that still apply. And if and [clears throat] really 512 01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:25,760 uh it's it's form over substance really all the court of appeals wants to do 513 01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:30,480 right wrong or indifferent but we have to do it because that's how they've 514 01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:36,480 instructed us to to do it um that we have to make an application to the 515 01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:42,216 attorney general uh either as a public corporation or as a person. uh the 516 01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:47,040 county would do that and if [clears throat] you uh elect to go that 517 01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:51,360 direction and then um [clears throat] the the attorney general would have to 518 01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:58,719 act on that application. They would have to either a take it up and and decide 519 01:14:56,239 --> 01:15:05,120 the underlying legal issue which is framed as 46.411. 520 01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:10,640 Uh or they could decline to take it and say Monroe County, you file a motion 521 01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:16,400 with the trial court seeking leave of court to uh proceed forward on 522 01:15:14,719 --> 01:15:21,280 everything that you've brought before the court before, plus you frame it 523 01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:27,280 procedurally at a count to the complaint of quo warrant under the court rule. So 524 01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:33,280 now there's another uh there's another way that this could happen too. um 525 01:15:30,687 --> 01:15:37,199 [clears throat] either party uh if they so chose could file an application for 526 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:43,520 leave to appeal with the Michigan Supreme Court and challenge the Court of 527 01:15:40,239 --> 01:15:48,640 Appeals decision um and ask the Michigan Supreme Court to to grant their 528 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:54,267 application for leave to appeal uh to decide whether the Court of Appeals was 529 01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:57,840 correct in its decision. I'm I'm not [clears throat] 530 01:15:54,800 --> 01:16:04,080 I'm not uh advising you to do that to go in that direction. I think that would be 531 01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:10,480 um generally speaking a waste of time uh and money to do that. Um if you're going 532 01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:14,719 if you're going to go forward um and people talk about settlement, but quite 533 01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:19,840 frankly, and it's recognized by the court of appeals, I don't know how you 534 01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:24,800 settle a case like this. Uh it's been suggested to me by Mr. Brance attorneys 535 01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:30,480 that well is is the you know the county could just drop um its lawsuit which I 536 01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:37,920 suppose Mr. Brandt's lawyers would drop their lawsuit but uh we it's gone too 537 01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:41,600 far at this point. If you remember when after [clears throat] the court the 538 01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:47,120 trial court Judge Kungi entered her order um I think it was September 12th 539 01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:53,679 after she entered her order Mr. grants attorneys filed uh their appeal and they 540 01:16:50,159 --> 01:17:00,480 also filed a motion uh with that appeal asking the court the court of appeals to 541 01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:06,719 a enter an injunction that would prevent Monroe County from going forward with 542 01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:12,719 the special election that by the way was was openly suggested by Judge Kungi in 543 01:17:10,239 --> 01:17:18,159 her opinion uh her September 12th opinion um they asked [clears throat] 544 01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:24,320 the court to enjoin the court of appeals to enjoin that special election and they 545 01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:29,679 asked the court of appeals to vacate the stay that judge Kungi had put into into 546 01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:35,840 effect and the [clears throat] court of appeals uh chose to do neither. The 547 01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:41,360 court of appeals did not did not vacate the stay stating that Mr. Brandt could 548 01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:48,480 not serve as a county commissioner during the pendency of the matter and 549 01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:54,000 they chose not to uh enjoin uh enjoin the special election and properly so 550 01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:59,040 because they they point out that that would have that would have required uh 551 01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:04,320 the joiner of the Monroe County Clerk who is the election official in Monroe 552 01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:11,440 County. um this board had the authority under the statute um uh to call for a 553 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:18,560 special election. Uh they and you called for a special election because you 554 01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:24,880 adopted my legal opinion that 46.411 automatically vacated that position 555 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:30,960 because Mr. Brandt couldn't take office on January 1, 2025. This board didn't 556 01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:35,600 there's been a lot of misconception out there. This board didn't remove Mr. 557 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:39,679 Brandt. Don't you don't have the authority and I told you you didn't have 558 01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:46,560 the authority to remove Mr. Brandt. The legal theory is that by operation of law 559 01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:52,400 since he couldn't take office on January 1 of 25 that that office was vacated 560 01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:59,120 automatically by operation of law pursuant to MCL 46.411. 561 01:18:55,440 --> 01:19:05,760 So and that is the the underlying and the most important legal issue in this 562 01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:13,199 whole in this whole litigation. So, so in my view, if if this board chooses 563 01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:17,760 to go forward to get it uh properly back in front of the trial court, uh you 564 01:19:15,679 --> 01:19:23,920 would need to authorize me to make an application to the attorney general and 565 01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:27,920 I will have to uh carefully craft that because the court of appeals pointed out 566 01:19:26,159 --> 01:19:33,920 and I pointed it out to the court of appeals in my briefing that Monroe 567 01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:38,800 County may not be a public corporation. uh as as it applies to uh the quote 568 01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:46,000 warrant court rule. I'll have to carefully craft that uh and and and that 569 01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:52,159 Monroe County is a person uh as set forth in the court rule and ask the 570 01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:58,640 attorney general uh to take it up and uh um and make a decision. Now, they could 571 01:19:55,040 --> 01:20:02,480 take it up and uh and issue an opinion. The attorney general, she's not they're 572 01:20:00,719 --> 01:20:08,239 not it's not a court. they could issue an opinion on the underlying legal issue 573 01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:14,159 on the issue of CO Warrento as to uh whether or not um that office was 574 01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:20,960 automatically v uh vacated by operation of law pursuant to the statute 46.411 575 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:26,800 or uh the attorney general could say we're not get involved in that. we 576 01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:32,560 decline um and send it back and then I would file a motion which I believe uh 577 01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:38,560 Judge Kungi would grant so that we could uh get it back in front of her as 578 01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:44,800 directed by the court of appeals. So, um I don't want to belabor this. Um it's uh 579 01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:52,640 you know, it's it's I I I have spent countless hours uh of 580 01:20:49,199 --> 01:20:55,840 my own time thinking about this, but um because [clears throat] it's important 581 01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:59,600 um it's important to this board. It's important to district 2. It's important 582 01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:04,960 to the community. It's important to Mr. Brent. It's now important to Mr. Beniki. 583 01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:09,840 And I guess I'll wind up by saying the court allowed this elect, it was 584 01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:16,560 suggested by the trial judge, Judge Kunki, that there an election go forward 585 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:22,719 and that that that not be uh vacated and and that election did go forward. And 586 01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:27,920 that what happened in that election was Mr. Benki was chosen by the registered 587 01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:33,440 voters of district 2 to be their representative. Now, he's involved and 588 01:21:30,719 --> 01:21:37,760 he has certain due process rights uh that shouldn't be ignored. And so, the 589 01:21:35,679 --> 01:21:43,120 court's going to have to weigh that. And he may or it's up to him. He may or may 590 01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:48,880 not intervene as a party in this action. he may hire his own lawyer and intervene 591 01:21:46,719 --> 01:21:54,480 uh file a motion to intervene in this action uh to in an effort to protect 592 01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:59,600 whatever rights he has under Michigan law given the chronology of events that 593 01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:05,280 have occurred with respect to this case. So he's he may or may not be in it. That 594 01:22:02,719 --> 01:22:14,639 is totally up to him. That's a choice he has to make. But in terms of this whole 595 01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:21,520 board um um I I really don't see um uh how uh you just say well let's settle h 596 01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:27,199 how it's this is not a uh not a like an injury lawsuit where we're talking about 597 01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:32,400 is there liability and is there damages and if the liability meets the threshold 598 01:22:30,239 --> 01:22:39,280 what should the damages be and we settle on a damage amount. Not that simple. Um 599 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:44,400 the the legal question still s still needs to be resolved. I I think the 600 01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:49,600 legislature legis legislature should take this up. Commissioner Asper touched 601 01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:54,480 on it, I think, in her comments that there are certain things that you can 602 01:22:51,679 --> 01:22:59,520 and you can't do with respect to county commissioners and they as they hold 603 01:22:56,159 --> 01:23:06,719 their seat. Um the legislature in my view needs to take this issue up. Uh and 604 01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:13,520 that and that boils down to um if someone is convicted of a felony and 605 01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:19,600 they're in prison, are they a qualified elector? Now, you know, I agree with 606 01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:25,120 many things that Mr. Brandt's attorneys have said. For instance, for instance, 607 01:23:22,239 --> 01:23:31,360 if Mark Brandt wasn't in prison on January 1, 2025, his federal felony 608 01:23:29,199 --> 01:23:36,480 conviction would not have stopped him from taking office because he could have 609 01:23:34,639 --> 01:23:40,960 been here and he could have acted as a commissioner. I don't contest that. I 610 01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:46,480 concede that. That's that's a rule of law as it applies to this case. But the 611 01:23:43,679 --> 01:23:50,000 fact of the matter is he wasn't. And we didn't know how long he would be in 612 01:23:48,159 --> 01:23:57,760 prison. only that he was sentenced to serve an 18-month sentence in federal 613 01:23:52,800 --> 01:24:03,120 prison. So, um you know, we we we had to deal I think this board had to deal with 614 01:24:00,159 --> 01:24:09,600 that. Do you just sit on your hands and do nothing? Um uh and just wait to see 615 01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:14,320 how long he's in prison and leave District 2 unrepresented. Right, wrong, 616 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:18,560 or indifferent. I provided you with a legal opinion. I still stand by that 617 01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:22,800 legal opinion. Uh, no one's going to get me to change my mind on that legal 618 01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:28,159 opinion. Uh, the court needs to issue its opinion on its own opinion on that. 619 01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:31,199 Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's somewhere in the middle. 620 01:24:29,679 --> 01:24:37,840 We'll find that out, I guess, soon enough if we, uh, proceed forward. So, 621 01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:42,960 um, so that's where we're at. Again, I I'm probably talking too much, but the 622 01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:48,719 decision the board needs to make is, uh, do you go forward with this? uh do you 623 01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:53,920 allow me to make application to the attorney general even though even though 624 01:24:51,920 --> 01:25:00,960 I think it was properly before both courts on a declaratory action on the 625 01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:05,440 issue of was he this is a legal question was he a qualified elector on the date 626 01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:12,000 he was supposed to take office and couldn't take office uh but nonetheless 627 01:25:08,719 --> 01:25:17,520 uh do you allow me to uh make an application to the attorney general um 628 01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:22,480 setting all the relevant facts in that to see if they'll take it up and they'll 629 01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:28,000 make a decision, issue an opinion uh or uh and then we go from there. Once 630 01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:32,560 that's done, um we would have to Mr. Branset lawyer and and I would have to 631 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:36,320 consult with the judge, probably have a pre-trial conference because it's back 632 01:25:34,159 --> 01:25:41,760 in front of her and something needs to be done. Um and let her know that's 633 01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:46,239 what's going to happen or Mr. For all I know, Mr. grants lawyers could choose to 634 01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:50,960 file an application for leave to to appeal with the Supreme Court and have 635 01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:56,320 them uh take it up to decide whether the court of appeals was right uh when it 636 01:25:53,440 --> 01:26:00,639 issued its opinion when it found error in the way the judge decided the case 637 01:25:58,719 --> 01:26:05,920 with respect to the issues that we the county raised both in at the trial court 638 01:26:03,199 --> 01:26:13,280 level and at at the court of appeals. So that's that's your task tonight uh from 639 01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:18,239 me. Do you proceed forward? Allow me to um continue uh the litigation by f 640 01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:25,360 filing an application to the attorney general uh under the quo warrantto 641 01:26:20,719 --> 01:26:29,760 statute or something else. >> Are there any questions for Mr. 642 01:26:26,639 --> 01:26:34,480 Goldmith? Commissioner Asper. >> So really this goes back farther than 643 01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:43,760 January 1. Goes back to when um when Mr. Grant uh 644 01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:46,880 resigned from his previous um 645 01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:52,480 term. Um and the way the law reads, the 646 01:26:49,679 --> 01:27:00,480 problem with felonies is if you commit the felony after you're elected, the 647 01:26:56,080 --> 01:27:08,880 felony that was in question had happened prior to the election. In fact, he was 648 01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:14,560 sentenced 5 weeks before the election. So, at the time that people voted, it 649 01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:18,880 was already out there. Five weeks that he had been sentenced. And like I say, 650 01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:23,120 the felony didn't occur afterward. It was not committed afterward and it was 651 01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:29,920 not committed against the county. The law says that the chair of this board 652 01:27:26,159 --> 01:27:34,480 has to appoint somebody within 30 days. Our previous temporary chair chose not 653 01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:38,719 to do that because it was closer to the end of the year and he was going to 654 01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:44,880 leave it for the next chair. The next chair did not do that against the law. 655 01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:50,159 They were supposed to we were supposed to appoint somebody until the first year 656 01:27:48,639 --> 01:27:55,120 was passed and then they could the people that actually are in district 2 657 01:27:53,120 --> 01:28:01,920 could have gone ahead and voted. As it turns out, they voted in November 658 01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:07,920 what 90% it was like 7,000 votes more than anybody else in that election. So 659 01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:12,080 that was pretty decisive. Also, he was the Republican candidate in this county. 660 01:28:10,719 --> 01:28:16,560 Some people just vote for the Republican, whoever that is. So I think 661 01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:20,159 that's a lot of what explains what happened in this election that just 662 01:28:18,719 --> 01:28:27,440 happened. So when the chair of this board did not 663 01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:32,400 go ahead and appoint someone which is not according to the law, the law says 664 01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:38,880 we have to do that within 30 days. Uh also on January 1st to simply do this 665 01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:43,760 theory, this theory of not being an elector, an elector that whole law 666 01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:47,840 portion is so that people won't run in a district that they don't belong to, that 667 01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:53,199 they're not living there. And it was it was also said by our clerk that he was 668 01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:58,311 duly elected and he was also sworn in which means we have two people that have 669 01:28:55,360 --> 01:29:00,960 been sworn in. [sighs] 670 01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:08,159 So when that wasn't done and when they decided uh and as of the 1st of January, 671 01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:13,280 he was still getting requests for appointments and those appointments 672 01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:18,960 actually did come back. So, he was being treated as as a commissioner from that 673 01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:24,239 point. I don't even think the payment thing even came in until about mid 674 01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:29,679 January. Um, we've had commissioners who we didn't even know where they were. Uh, 675 01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:33,360 and they ended up being off this board not not being able to be here for six 676 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:39,040 months. So, it's not a matter of whether you can actually be here. I saw emails 677 01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:43,840 where he wanted to actually do things from where he was staying. It was kind 678 01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:51,600 of a it was one of those type of prisons where you don't have fences and things 679 01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:55,120 like that. So, uh he was refused to have communication 680 01:29:53,440 --> 01:30:04,000 uh because the chair would not communicate with him by email. Um so 681 01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:09,360 that's another thing. Um and then we go to say I guess they figured oh well yeah 682 01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:16,080 we don't have the right to unseat him. In fact, Kungi, she actually her ruling 683 01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:22,159 was that he did not vacate the seat. The way that a commissioner vacates a seat 684 01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:26,159 is two ways. One is if they resign and the other is if they move out of the 685 01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:31,280 district. So, they have to have to be off because they aren't an elector. It 686 01:30:28,719 --> 01:30:36,400 was determined in your writing that he had not given up his residency. When he 687 01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:42,480 came back here, he was still registered to vote. So all these things were a 688 01:30:39,199 --> 01:30:46,560 theory. We went forward with a theory. And then when he got out of prison, 689 01:30:44,480 --> 01:30:49,840 which I have to say he accomplished more in those eight months than we've 690 01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:55,280 accomplished in the last year, which is sad to say. Um 691 01:30:52,960 --> 01:31:02,320 then when he came back, he could have sat down on the on on the board. Well, 692 01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:05,760 so he did. And when he sat down here, uh well, excuse me. We go we back up to 693 01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:09,199 what happened. And I'm just saying this because the audience doesn't know all 694 01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:14,080 this other part of it. They don't. They haven't read the law. I'm not a lawyer, 695 01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:19,520 but my eyeballs are about blind from reading what's actually in the law. And 696 01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:23,760 what ended up happening was they were going to do a special election in May. 697 01:31:22,159 --> 01:31:27,280 And of course, we can't have a special election in May because it's a partisan 698 01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:36,159 election. So it couldn't be until August. And then um when we got the 699 01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:42,159 we were supposed to even make up our ballots, but because there couldn't be 700 01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:49,600 this decision in time. Um and and and the thing was it was an injunction that 701 01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:56,400 was filed by the county after uh after we had already decided 702 01:31:52,639 --> 01:32:01,679 that he could sit here because the chair had said that he could sit here and 703 01:31:58,239 --> 01:32:06,639 nobody made any motions otherwise. Um so and he was supposed to be able to 704 01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:10,320 sit here according to the chair. He was supposed to be able to sit here until 705 01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:15,040 that got decided in court. Well, then when that injunction was filed, which we 706 01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:18,800 never voted to have to have him not sit here. We did not ask you to file 707 01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:24,159 something that would prevent him from sitting up here, his the people in his 708 01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:28,800 district could have just chosen to recall him. You wait a year, you recall 709 01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:35,120 that person. That is the way that it normally goes. But by virtue of the fact 710 01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:40,000 that this board did not appoint somebody when it first got vacated and did not 711 01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:44,239 appoint somebody when the new chair came, I think we have to take some 712 01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:47,679 responsibility for that. And there are people on this board that voted against 713 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:53,040 that. We just wanted to let it play out so that the that district 2 could decide 714 01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:58,080 who was going to be their commissioner. But the election we just had, you know, 715 01:32:55,679 --> 01:33:03,360 Commissioner uh Commissioner Brandt was he had been the Republican and he was 716 01:33:00,480 --> 01:33:07,600 duly elected according to our clerk. And so I just I just feel like there's a lot 717 01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:14,639 of complications here and we went through this and and the our problem was 718 01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:19,920 that she went ahead and um she made the you know she made the decision it he 719 01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:24,000 that he did not vacate the seat and then she says oh but you know we're going to 720 01:33:22,159 --> 01:33:30,560 let this election go on. We're going to wait and see if you guys want to appeal 721 01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:35,840 or whatever. So I I am just so discouraged 722 01:33:32,719 --> 01:33:40,320 that we did not go ahead and do it the right way. Either appoint somebody and 723 01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:43,360 then when he came back they could decide if that's what they were going to do or 724 01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:47,920 if they were going to recall him. I think the constituents in the district 725 01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:52,880 are the ones that are supposed to make the decision. But there were some people 726 01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:59,840 that did not want that particular possibility and that's where we got 727 01:33:55,520 --> 01:34:03,520 where we got. So afterward if you have any questions 728 01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:09,040 there's just a lot of assumptions that are are being made because of the way 729 01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:12,560 things were filed and I just people don't know the law and and I don't think 730 01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:16,159 we should have gone ahead on a theory. I think we should have gone according to 731 01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:20,080 the law and done the appointment. >> We did go according to the law. MCL 732 01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:26,080 46.411. And it's much more than a theory. It's 733 01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:31,920 coupled with uh con the constitution and Michigan election law. And it's a matter 734 01:34:28,639 --> 01:34:36,320 of first impression to the court. Um and and the [clears throat] court recognized 735 01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:41,199 it. The court of appeals recognized it. Commissioner Asper, they stated in their 736 01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:45,840 opinion, "The trial court aired when it granted Brandt a declaratory judgment 737 01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:50,719 that his incarceration in another state did not act to vacate a seat because the 738 01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:54,719 trial court did not address or decide potentially dispositive legal issues 739 01:34:52,719 --> 01:34:59,440 raised by the parties below. Specifically, the trial court neither 740 01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:04,159 addressed nor decided cross appellants, that's us, the county, argument that 741 01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:09,199 Brandt's incarceration in another state resulted in a vacancy of his seat 742 01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:14,719 automatically by operation of law under MCL 46.411. 743 01:35:11,679 --> 01:35:20,480 So, I didn't just grab something out of thin air. A lot of time, research, and 744 01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:24,880 thought went into this. Um and and this is a question uh of important 745 01:35:22,719 --> 01:35:29,840 jurisprudence to the state. This is a question that needs to be answered and 746 01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:36,080 it's it's a declar declaratory judgment type question and someday I hope a court 747 01:35:33,199 --> 01:35:42,320 answers this. They may say you're wrong, Goldmith. he was a qualified elector, 748 01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:47,440 which as Judge Kungi said in her uh opinion would be nonsensical to me 749 01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:53,920 because then you could have somebody um elected um and then not be able to serve 750 01:35:50,880 --> 01:36:00,000 for their entire term and then that that with a county commissioner that just 751 01:35:55,600 --> 01:36:06,639 sits vacant for four years. So, um, with respect to what happened in 2024, 752 01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:12,320 that and I don't challenge that. I don't contest I don't contest that Mr. Brandt 753 01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:20,800 was obligated uh his his office was vacated uh because 754 01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:25,600 he was sentenced to a felony offense. not something not a felony that was 755 01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:31,840 committed that had anything to do with his with his uh commissioner duties. 756 01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:36,320 Totally outside of that. That was something personal. I don't want anybody 757 01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:42,320 to think that he committed a felony that had anything to do with his uh operation 758 01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:47,440 as a county commissioner. He did not. If if it would have been that, he wouldn't 759 01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:53,920 have been able to run uh for office in 2024 to be elected to start the 760 01:36:50,080 --> 01:37:00,639 four-year term January 1 of 2025. So, he decided on his own uh to resign. That's 761 01:36:58,159 --> 01:37:06,239 correct. A decision was made and I think it was based on past president. I think 762 01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:10,880 that since you they were close to the term uh the end of the term that an 763 01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:15,440 appointment wouldn't been made. I think that the rationale for that, it's been 764 01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:19,840 uh stated by chairman Benzel in the past. The rationale for that was that 765 01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:24,800 there's a very short period of time between now and the end of the year to 766 01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:29,520 appoint someone to fill that position would potentially give them a leg up in 767 01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:35,360 the next election. Chose not to do that. Let the people make that decision in the 768 01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:41,280 November uh the November 2024 election. So, that was done. Um, and and that's 769 01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:49,600 the way it that's the way it proceeded. So, was Mark Brandt uh uh legally on the 770 01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:56,560 ballot in November of 24? Yes, he was. Did he get elected? Yes, he did. The 771 01:37:53,360 --> 01:38:02,960 question is and and if he would if he would have if the judge would have put 772 01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:06,719 him on probation and he was able to come and sit at his seat and do the work of 773 01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:11,760 the county, none of this would have come up because that's the way the law is. Uh 774 01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:17,280 you can be convicted of a felony if it's not in your term of office and and 775 01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:23,119 continue to serve unless it's a felony that's connected to the business of you 776 01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:27,760 of you being a county commissioner. So, it all boils down to this. I keep coming 777 01:38:26,159 --> 01:38:33,920 back to this, but this is where we're at. On January 1, 2025, he couldn't take 778 01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:39,199 office because he was in prison. The law is clear. A county commissioner can only 779 01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:44,719 do the business of a county commissioner at a at a meeting open to the public. 780 01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:49,520 The attorney general has offered opinions on that. I agree with those 781 01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:54,960 opinions. I cited them in my brief in my briefs multiple briefs to the court of 782 01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:59,280 appeals uh and to the trial court. You have to be present to do the business of 783 01:38:57,199 --> 01:39:03,679 of a county commissioner. You can't do that through a third party. You can't do 784 01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:08,320 that by email. Uh there was only a limited period of time where uh 785 01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:14,639 commissioners could uh appear remotely during COVID. That time has now passed. 786 01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:20,320 So uh it comes back to this legal issue. Was he or was he not a qualified elector 787 01:39:17,440 --> 01:39:25,920 on that date? You and I will I respect your opinion. You know that. Um I think 788 01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:34,159 you respect me and my opinions and will respectfully agree to disagree on this. 789 01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:43,440 And and and that point is that that uh the law in my mind uh wasn't wasn't 790 01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:48,320 46.411 411 has a lot deeper meaning uh uh whether or not you're in your 791 01:39:46,239 --> 01:39:53,840 district or not in your district, whether you move from your district, if 792 01:39:50,159 --> 01:39:58,320 he voluntarily voluntarily moved. So, uh if you can't if if you're not there and 793 01:39:56,480 --> 01:40:03,520 you're not a qualified elector on that date, you can't serve. So, the court the 794 01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:09,440 court needs to decide that issue. Simple as that. Court needs to decide. So what 795 01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:14,080 but what you're saying is that um that you can disregard the law when it says 796 01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:19,520 that that that a person has to be appointed within 30 days. So that was 797 01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:25,520 disregarded. You don't just get to say that you know I mean it wasn't it wasn't 798 01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:31,600 chairman Benzel that made that decision uh in in 24. uh it was actually given 799 01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:35,679 over to him because he was going to become well whoever was going to become 800 01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:40,560 the chair but he became the chair in January and I'm just thinking that I 801 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:43,920 can't just make make a decision that I want to do 802 01:40:42,239 --> 01:40:47,920 something if it's in the law that you're supposed to appoint somebody that's a 803 01:40:46,239 --> 01:40:52,320 problem the other thing is is what if I had had co you know and I couldn't have 804 01:40:50,480 --> 01:40:57,840 come to my meeting or whatever as it turns out in the law sadly commissioners 805 01:40:55,760 --> 01:41:03,119 don't have any kind of attendance policy. You can censure them. You can do 806 01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:07,600 other things like that. But technically, because we had a commissioner who missed 807 01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:11,760 6 months and could not be here and we had another commissioner who wasn't here 808 01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:16,719 for two months. I mean, if if if we don't have a an attendance policy, I 809 01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:20,000 don't really see how that applies. I mean, it's sad. I think we should have 810 01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:24,000 some sort of attendance policy, but basically all you can do is censure, and 811 01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:28,239 some people don't care about that. So, um it just seems to me that uh the law 812 01:41:26,239 --> 01:41:32,400 is being, you know, applied whether we want to use it or not. And if it says 30 813 01:41:30,719 --> 01:41:37,119 days and you have to appoint somebody, you have to appoint somebody. And that's 814 01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:41,040 how we originally got uh Chairman Benzel on the board of commissioners was he was 815 01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:46,480 appointed and then we had an election and he was elected. So, you know, so the 816 01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:51,040 president on this board has been to replace somebody if they had to resign, 817 01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:56,159 which the previous commissioner had had to resign. So, um I just I just feel 818 01:41:54,159 --> 01:42:01,840 like we took it out of their hands because um 819 01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:06,400 because there were people that did not want the outcome to be a certain way. 820 01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:08,560 » So, that that's the sad thing right there. 821 01:42:06,719 --> 01:42:14,719 » Mr. Bill Smith, can I ask just a couple of clarifying questions? Sure. When when 822 01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:19,920 uh former Commissioner Brandt entered a guilty plea in March, was he legally 823 01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:24,719 obligated to let the board know that he'd entered a guilty plea? And was he 824 01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:29,040 at that point ineligible to hold office and and did was he required to resign? 825 01:42:28,555 --> 01:42:36,880 [clears throat] >> He was by by law when his case was fully 826 01:42:34,639 --> 01:42:41,679 adjudicated which was when he was sentenced which came after that March 827 01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:45,760 date when his case was fully adjudicated because he could have withdrawn his 828 01:42:43,440 --> 01:42:52,639 plea. any number of things could happen. But when he was fully adjudicated and 829 01:42:48,480 --> 01:42:59,360 sentenced on the crime, then then he was obligated to uh let the commission know 830 01:42:56,000 --> 01:43:01,679 and to resign pursuant to that statute. >> And so during the 831 01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:04,639 » 203 >> during the period of time from March 832 01:43:03,199 --> 01:43:08,719 when he plead guilty until the sentencing in September, he was legal to 833 01:43:07,119 --> 01:43:13,840 sit on this board and make decisions and vote on issues. there there's 834 01:43:11,131 --> 01:43:19,040 [clears throat] the prevailing legal uh position is your your case is not fully 835 01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:24,239 adjudicated until you're sentenced. Once you're sentenced uh and the case is 836 01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:32,239 fully adjudicated and appellet rights have been have been uh in most cases uh 837 01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:36,639 cretailed. um then uh he should have in my view he should have resigned because 838 01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:42,320 really the statute says your office is vacated because of uh the felony 839 01:43:39,440 --> 01:43:48,400 conviction. It you know it talks there again the these statutes are old. These 840 01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:53,440 go back into the 1800s early 1900s when when counties were run by county boards 841 01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:56,960 of supervisors which were comprised of the supervisors of the respective 842 01:43:55,040 --> 01:44:01,520 townships throughout the county. These are old statutes, still good law today. 843 01:43:59,840 --> 01:44:10,400 I think they need to be reviewed by the state legislature, but um his office was 844 01:44:06,480 --> 01:44:16,080 vacated um when he was fully adjudicated um on that felony offense, which uh the 845 01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:22,000 law has interpreted by Supreme Court decision that an infamous crime uh a 846 01:44:18,719 --> 01:44:26,159 felony is an infamous crime. So long answer to your question. And I hope I 847 01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:29,600 answered I answered it. >> And when he when he plead guilty in 848 01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:34,880 September, then according to Commissioner Asper, uh the the then 849 01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:38,239 chair, acting chair, uh had an obligation to to appoint. Is that 850 01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:44,960 correct? >> Not the chair, the the board. But the 851 01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:52,657 way the statute reads is is if the board doesn't appoint someone within 30 days, 852 01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:56,480 then then there is an election. um then [clears throat] then you you call for 853 01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:59,679 for an election. Well, there there was no point in having an election at that 854 01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:06,400 point. There couldn't have been an election at that point because the term 855 01:45:02,080 --> 01:45:12,880 of office ended uh December 31st. So, um either or if this if if you had a 856 01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:16,560 vacancy, uh you could choose not to appoint somebody. You don't have to 857 01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:21,199 appoint somebody. If you don't appoint somebody, then an election has to occur. 858 01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:25,119 And so that wasn't necessarily breaking the law when an appointment wasn't made. 859 01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:30,639 » Not in my not in my view. You know, it it it's if you make a decision not to 860 01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:37,199 appoint someone, then it defaults to the election. And and as far as a recall, um 861 01:45:34,239 --> 01:45:40,400 I I would simply say this, you can't recall somebody in their first 862 01:45:39,199 --> 01:45:46,080 year >> of term. You can't recall somebody in 863 01:45:42,480 --> 01:45:52,320 the last year of their term. So, um the legal question was always out there. uh 864 01:45:49,440 --> 01:45:56,560 when Mr. Brandt's term didn't start because he wasn't able to take office on 865 01:45:54,400 --> 01:46:00,639 the day he was supposed to take office. So when does that year start and when 866 01:45:58,480 --> 01:46:05,360 does it when does it end? Court hasn't answered that question yet. If the court 867 01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:11,360 comes back and says if the court comes back and says that Goldmith, you're 868 01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:17,199 wrong. He was a qualified elector on January 1, 2025, even though he couldn't 869 01:46:14,480 --> 01:46:21,920 be here uh due to his imprisonment. you're wrong on that. Well, then most 870 01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:25,840 would take the legal position that the one year of service began on January 1, 871 01:46:24,239 --> 01:46:33,920 even though he wasn't here and unable to serve and it goes to December 31st. And 872 01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:38,560 now now um if if a petition if the people of District 2 wanted to circulate 873 01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:41,600 a petition, they could. Ju just a 874 01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:43,840 » Oh, did you have something to say? >> No, no, I'm talking to the 875 01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:47,360 administration. >> Just three quick questions for you then 876 01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:52,639 because you you bring up bring that up and I just wanted to read 877 01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:56,320 this part of the uh appeals court uh ruling and tell me if I'm understanding 878 01:46:54,480 --> 01:47:01,600 this correctly. It says because those issues were raised by the parties below, 879 01:46:59,199 --> 01:47:05,760 they both would ordinarily be preserved for appellet review despite the trial 880 01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:11,840 court's failure to actually rule on them. And then it gives some language 881 01:47:08,480 --> 01:47:16,400 for that. And then below that it says the procedural flaws in this case are a 882 01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:21,119 direct result of both parties failure to properly plead and argue their claims 883 01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:25,840 and to name the proper party defendants in the trial court. So it's sounding to 884 01:47:23,199 --> 01:47:29,840 me like the appeals court said even though the trial court didn't bring up 885 01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:33,360 the specific things that that you're asking me to appeal, they could have had 886 01:47:31,440 --> 01:47:36,639 appellet review on this, but both parties are to blame for not properly 887 01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:40,239 trying this in the right court. Is that what it's essentially saying? No, I 888 01:47:38,639 --> 01:47:42,000 think you're I think you're okay. What does it say? 889 01:47:40,719 --> 01:47:47,360 » Misunderstanding. >> So, when you when you talk about the 890 01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:51,920 county uh join the proper parties, when they talk about proper parties not being 891 01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:59,360 joined, they're talking about Mark Brandt's uh claim when he asked uh when 892 01:47:55,840 --> 01:48:06,080 he asked uh the court of appeals to enjoin uh the county from going forward 893 01:48:03,199 --> 01:48:09,920 with the uh special election. In order to do that, they would have had to add 894 01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:15,360 parties. They would they would have had to add the Monroe County Clerk because 895 01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:20,560 the Monroe County Clerk is the one who oversees elections. So, and they and 896 01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:26,719 they say that they they say that Brandt lawyers should have brought a mandamus 897 01:48:22,480 --> 01:48:31,520 action if they wanted to uh enjoin the election, the special election that 898 01:48:28,880 --> 01:48:36,000 happened in November of this year. So, that that's what that was about. The 899 01:48:33,679 --> 01:48:39,679 county named the proper party, the proper party being Mark Brandt. 900 01:48:38,480 --> 01:48:44,159 » I guess I was wondering on that line, the procedural flaws in these cases are 901 01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:47,199 direct result of the parties. So what parties their plural are they talking 902 01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:52,480 about? >> They [clears throat] they say they say 903 01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:57,119 county of Monroe and Mark Brandt, you both should have added a count to your 904 01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:59,199 respective complaints under Quo Warrento. That's what they're saying. 905 01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:03,520 » Okay. >> They said you both didn't do that. You 906 01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:11,199 should have. I respectfully disagree with that because the the the I keep 907 01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:19,119 hitting this the the question is I mean I just it's u and I and I it's 908 01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:25,520 it's somewhat complicating complicated but on the other hand to me it's not. 909 01:49:21,679 --> 01:49:30,880 Was he a qualified elector on January 1? That's a declaratory judgment uh issue. 910 01:49:28,639 --> 01:49:34,000 Was he a qualified elector? >> And your legal opinion was that he 911 01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:37,600 wasn't correct. >> So then why was your office sending him 912 01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:42,400 recommendations for boards to to his prison email? 913 01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:49,600 » Because because that was prior to my legal opinion uh being my legal opinion 914 01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:56,880 was requested that was done prior to my legal opinion being uh authored where I 915 01:49:52,560 --> 01:50:01,199 set out for the board um 46.411 411 the constitution provisions and the the 916 01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:05,040 election law provisions that was done prior prior. 917 01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:08,639 » So your natural assumption was he still was before you gave your legal opinion 918 01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:12,400 then your office was acting in the natural assumption that he still was a 919 01:50:10,480 --> 01:50:15,760 county commissioner by requesting him to fill board seats. 920 01:50:13,440 --> 01:50:21,520 » I I wouldn't it wasn't my natural inclination. I was researching it. So no 921 01:50:18,639 --> 01:50:25,920 decision had been made yet as to how the how we were going to ad advise the 922 01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:33,520 board. You know, some people have suggested that um that my work was done 923 01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:39,040 that I was given an assignment. We want you to reach this this point. And so do 924 01:50:37,119 --> 01:50:44,400 whatever you need to do to get to that point. And so I told you guys before and 925 01:50:42,239 --> 01:50:47,840 ladies, if you would have asked me to do that, I use these words. I would have 926 01:50:46,239 --> 01:50:52,480 told you to go jump in the lake. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to research 927 01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:57,920 it thoroughly and come up with an opinion that I have faith in and I 928 01:50:55,040 --> 01:51:04,639 believe is well grounded in the law. So, that was never done to reach reach a 929 01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:09,760 point uh and just come up with some theory. I didn't do that. I researched 930 01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:14,880 the law. I considered it very thoughtfully. Um and I came up with my 931 01:51:12,719 --> 01:51:22,000 opinion. No, I'm sure you did. I had not I had not made a decision um at that at 932 01:51:19,280 --> 01:51:26,639 the point that was taking place. I think at that at that point there were many 933 01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:30,880 people reaching out to my partner Tom Grant saying on these boards and 934 01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:34,639 commissions, we have to have somebody act in this capacity. What do we do? We 935 01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:40,159 have to have somebody act in this capacity. So he did what he did while I 936 01:51:37,599 --> 01:51:44,400 was researching. I came up with my opinion based on the law. That's how 937 01:51:42,480 --> 01:51:47,440 that happened. So, not going to sugarcoat it. That's how it happened. 938 01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:51,360 Those are the facts. >> And then my last question would be, so 939 01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:55,520 what what if the county does absolutely nothing. What What's the next step? It's 940 01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:58,960 it's pretty much up in the air, right? I know you said we're not back to square 941 01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:03,920 one, but it sounds like the appellet court said, "Hey, this needs to be filed 942 01:52:01,119 --> 01:52:07,119 properly like you explained." Where, in your legal opinion, where are we at if 943 01:52:05,599 --> 01:52:11,520 the county throws their hands up and let's just says we we're not acting at 944 01:52:09,599 --> 01:52:14,320 all. We're never bringing up this subject again. Let's just say that 945 01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:16,960 happens. Where where would that in your legal opinion, where would that leave 946 01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:22,080 us? [clears throat] >> The the legal question would never be 947 01:52:19,440 --> 01:52:28,480 answered. It would leave Mr. Beniki in limbo because of the course of this 948 01:52:24,639 --> 01:52:35,040 litigation. He may choose to to uh uh challenge that in court. Um the 949 01:52:32,639 --> 01:52:41,280 the only way that could be done, Greg, I think is is if you chose collectively as 950 01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:47,920 a board is to just throw up your hands and say that uh we know you sent this 951 01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:52,960 back to us, Court of Appeals, for uh for more uh more litigation, more action in 952 01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:56,480 front of the trial court. We're just going to we're just going to dismiss our 953 01:52:54,639 --> 01:53:02,560 complaint and be done with it. Still doesn't answer the question, though. um 954 01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:08,800 because a a lot has happened since that time. Um primarily the special election 955 01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:14,000 and I go back to this point the court of appeals and we would have honored it. 956 01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:19,599 The court of appeals had the opportunity to address it at that point. uh and they 957 01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:24,239 and they said at that point we're not you know we're not the election goes on 958 01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:28,960 and they gave a gave a rationale for allowing the election to go on and that 959 01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:36,719 was a continuation of what Judge Kungi had stated in her judgment her in her 960 01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:40,800 order. Um so um it would I think it would create a 961 01:53:39,199 --> 01:53:45,760 larger mess than what we have. We don't have an answer. You could tell me, you 962 01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:51,599 could tell me collectively as a board, just dismiss the case. Um, and uh, we're 963 01:53:49,840 --> 01:53:55,119 not going to pursu pursue it any further. Uh, but but 964 01:53:54,159 --> 01:53:58,400 » but I'm saying, what are the ramifications if there's two people up 965 01:53:56,800 --> 01:54:01,679 here wanting to sit in the same seat? What's the next step after that? That's 966 01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:07,599 if we dismiss. >> Well, um, I would I'm this is right off 967 01:54:04,639 --> 01:54:15,520 the top of my head. So, um, I would think that Mr. Beniki would uh because 968 01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:22,080 he would he he would then have a cool warrant action because he's claiming the 969 01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:27,679 office and now Mark Brandt's claiming the office. So you have two uh competing 970 01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:30,639 claimments. So he could go to the attorney general as a person. 971 01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:36,080 » Who's he? >> Mr. Beniki. Okay. 3.306B. 972 01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:42,320 MCR 3.306b. He could through a through an attorney 973 01:54:38,159 --> 01:54:46,400 if he chose uh ask for a quote warrantto opinion from the attorney general. The 974 01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:50,560 attorney general might give that or they might send it back and say you go to 975 01:54:48,719 --> 01:54:57,280 circuit court, you litigate it in circuit court. Um he could do that. Um I 976 01:54:55,199 --> 01:55:01,440 Mark Brandt would probably be happy if the board said 977 01:54:59,360 --> 01:55:07,599 wave the white flag and say we're just going to dismiss our cause of action. I 978 01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:13,599 I'm really I resent that uh interpretation 979 01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:18,480 because you're basically, you know, I mean, you're basically saying, "Oh, 980 01:55:15,599 --> 01:55:28,239 you're putting up the white flag." All I can say is it's sad that our prior chair 981 01:55:24,480 --> 01:55:33,520 accomplished more in prison than this entire board has in the last year. There 982 01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:38,000 have been all kinds of stuff talked about. We haven't talked about data 983 01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:42,719 centers. We haven't talked about carbon uh sequestration. We haven't talked 984 01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:46,960 about solar panels and all that. Maybe this much the things that people really 985 01:55:45,199 --> 01:55:55,280 care about that are going on in this county. and we had this chair who 986 01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:59,599 actually ran this board without drama and we accomplished things and we were 987 01:55:57,280 --> 01:56:05,280 in a very good financial situation and we are still thank God because of some 988 01:56:03,199 --> 01:56:10,239 of those plans. But throwing up the white flag is hardly what I would call 989 01:56:07,199 --> 01:56:15,599 putting Mark Brandt back on this board. >> Throwing up the white flag means you're 990 01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:20,560 giving up uh the claims that have been raised in the litigation. So, 991 01:56:17,679 --> 01:56:27,760 » well, I'm just I'm not here to I am not here to challenge or contest um the job 992 01:56:24,719 --> 01:56:33,360 that Mr. Brandt did while he was uh on this board. Not for one second. U I I 993 01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:38,119 think Mark Brandt uh served the community well when he was on this 994 01:56:35,119 --> 01:56:38,119 board. 995 01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:44,320 » I have one more question. Your initial your initial letter though your initial 996 01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:49,520 letter told us to go to a higher court a court of that's what you told us to do 997 01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:54,400 and then after a while what it turned into was a theory that he wasn't an 998 01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:59,679 elector and it went a totally different direction. Why why didn't you keep 999 01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:03,520 persisting to say no you've got to go to a higher court? Why did it turn into 1000 01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:06,560 this other thing? That's what I don't understand. That that's that's what I 1001 01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:12,719 don't understand. >> You look at my legal opinion. My legal 1002 01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:18,159 opinion is based entirely on MCL 46.411, the Constitution and the and the same 1003 01:57:15,040 --> 01:57:22,159 statutes that I pled in the trial court and that the trial court was asked to 1004 01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:27,040 answer and didn't and that was recognized by the court of appeals. They 1005 01:57:24,639 --> 01:57:31,520 she committed error because she didn't answer those questions. So I didn't 1006 01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:34,000 change in midstream. >> Mr. Chair, can I interrupt just for a 1007 01:57:33,119 --> 01:57:40,320 second? Commissioner Le, >> I think we've uh uh got an excellent uh 1008 01:57:36,880 --> 01:57:45,520 statement of where we were, how we got to where we are now from our county's 1009 01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:50,639 attorney. I think we've had a great uh counterpoint from commissioners uh Asper 1010 01:57:48,239 --> 01:57:55,391 and more. I think uh everybody in the audience uh here today watching us uh 1011 01:57:53,599 --> 01:57:59,679 electronically uh in real time [laughter] from the future is pretty 1012 01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:05,440 much uh surmised based on the proceeding votes that got us here where the board 1013 01:58:02,480 --> 01:58:11,599 is essentially uh you know positioned you know on this topic but to to move it 1014 01:58:08,560 --> 01:58:18,639 forward I would just ask councel really quick what is your recommendation based 1015 01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:23,440 on where we're at now as our retained Monroe County Board of Commissioners uh 1016 01:58:20,880 --> 01:58:26,960 council moving forward. What what is it that you're asking for the board to do 1017 01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:33,199 right now? >> Well, the the decision of the board the 1018 01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:39,119 decision of the board is whether or not to proceed forward as directed by the 1019 01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:46,080 court of appeals and to in in my view to proceed proceed forward uh u you would 1020 01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:49,920 uh file an application for >> and not to interrupt but what is your 1021 01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:54,239 recommendation? Well, I I mean this has to be brought to a conclusion. So, I 1022 01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:59,840 would recommend that you allow me to file an application with the attorney 1023 01:58:56,560 --> 01:59:05,199 general. Um as as suggested by the court of appeals in its decision and order, um 1024 01:59:03,199 --> 01:59:09,840 the the attorney general will then have to decide to take it up or not take it 1025 01:59:07,440 --> 01:59:13,920 up. If they take it up, they'll uh presumably issue an opinion. If they 1026 01:59:11,599 --> 01:59:16,880 don't take it up today, I make the motion based on the 1027 01:59:15,280 --> 01:59:20,080 » I didn't hear what he said. If they don't take it up, what 1028 01:59:18,159 --> 01:59:25,280 » if if they don't take it up, then it comes back and then I file a motion with 1029 01:59:22,719 --> 01:59:29,599 the trial court asking the trial court for leave to add aqua warrant account 1030 01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:34,400 and then the trial court decides the issue and based on their decision, 1031 01:59:32,239 --> 01:59:38,000 either Mr. Brandt takes it back up or the county takes it back up to the court 1032 01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:41,199 of appeals. >> And then can I just ask one qu quick 1033 01:59:39,679 --> 01:59:41,920 question before you finish your motion? Of 1034 01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:45,520 » course. >> I don't want to belabor it. I know we've 1035 01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:50,239 been here a long time. So, in your in your opinion, that would be a better 1036 01:59:47,360 --> 01:59:54,560 option than doing nothing and having those two guys fight it out 1037 01:59:53,119 --> 01:59:57,679 essentially. I know that sounds rough, but it's like, hey, you you two want to 1038 01:59:56,239 --> 02:00:02,560 figure it out in court, go figure it out. Now, both ways leave District 2 1039 02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:06,560 unrepresented in your opinion. Which one do you think would would be quicker to 1040 02:00:04,719 --> 02:00:10,960 get to a resolution? Going through the to the uh state attorney general, then 1041 02:00:08,880 --> 02:00:14,159 them either having pick it up or not. If they don't, it goes back to a trial 1042 02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:18,080 court. we have to go through that again. Could we be looking if we go the route 1043 02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:20,960 of sending it to the state? Could we be looking at another year, year and a 1044 02:00:19,520 --> 02:00:24,159 half? I I know we thought this thing was going to get resolved in a few months. 1045 02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:28,320 We're now 18 months in. Well, not the court part of it, but a year in. Do like 1046 02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:32,080 what's your legal opinion there of like the timeline? Because I'm also worried 1047 02:00:29,679 --> 02:00:34,480 about District 2 getting representation, no matter who it who it is. 1048 02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:39,199 » Sure. So to answer your answer your question, 1049 02:00:36,880 --> 02:00:44,719 Greg, it would be quicker for us to do it because we can get it in front of the 1050 02:00:41,679 --> 02:00:49,840 attorney general quickly. They would ha they'd have to do the same thing. If Mr. 1051 02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:55,840 Beniki chose to do to do that, he'd have to make application to the attorney 1052 02:00:51,760 --> 02:01:01,760 general. They'd make a decision. So, um, he'd be starting fresh. I We've got 1053 02:00:59,360 --> 02:01:06,320 everything. We send it. We file the application with the attorney general. 1054 02:01:04,239 --> 02:01:12,080 We wait for their opinion. I can't answer uh the question of how long it 1055 02:01:09,199 --> 02:01:18,560 would take. I thought I thought the court of appeals would have given us 1056 02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:23,679 this answer months ago. They didn't. And the reason I thought that is because 1057 02:01:21,119 --> 02:01:28,560 right off the bat when we the the the appeal was filed by Mr. grant. Then we 1058 02:01:26,000 --> 02:01:33,599 filed a cross appeal and the the court of appeals said we're going to submit 1059 02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:39,520 this on the briefs and we're going to decide this because of the exigencies 1060 02:01:36,159 --> 02:01:45,840 involved with the election. We're going to decide this without oral argument on 1061 02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:50,639 the briefs and and we waited. I think the trial judge thought that that the I 1062 02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:54,960 thought I think the trial judge thought that the court of appeals may have made 1063 02:01:52,239 --> 02:02:01,760 a decision even before the election. But we filed everything timely. Nobody asked 1064 02:01:57,360 --> 02:02:07,199 for any extensions. Um crying out loud. Mark's lawyers filed a motion at 12 on a 1065 02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:10,480 12 noon on a Thursday. I get a call from the court of appeals. A motion and a 1066 02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:15,679 brief. I get a call from the court of appeals saying, "We want your response 1067 02:02:12,960 --> 02:02:22,320 at 8 a.m. tomorrow." I said, "May I have until 10 a.m." I stayed all night. I did 1068 02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:29,440 it and got it filed timely. So, I mean, we did exactly what they asked us to do. 1069 02:02:26,639 --> 02:02:34,560 » I just have two quick questions. One, it sounds like you've you've got a 1070 02:02:32,639 --> 02:02:37,280 question yourself on which way to pursue going forward on the way you do the 1071 02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:38,719 request. >> No. 1072 02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:44,000 » Okay. I >> No. I mean, it's it's 1073 02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:51,199 even the court of appeals recognized that there's no published precedent on 1074 02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:58,400 whether a county um in view of MCR 3.306b, the quo warrantto statute is a 1075 02:02:55,119 --> 02:03:04,480 public corporation within that context. So, I I'll have to address that. I'll 1076 02:03:01,119 --> 02:03:08,800 have to address the person issue. um the the person issue. There's a 1971 Court 1077 02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:14,639 of Appeals decision that's pretty well on point on that. So, I I think I can 1078 02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:18,080 get it in front of them. Um >> uh and then there and then the attorney 1079 02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:20,719 general is going to have to make a decision. 1080 02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:24,960 » And one other thing, go ahead. >> Is is there an option to have one of our 1081 02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:32,000 legislators make the request for the opinion from the attorney general? It it 1082 02:03:27,440 --> 02:03:35,840 has to be by application and and uh you know the the legislature the 1083 02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:41,199 legislaturator if they chose could encourage the the 1084 02:03:38,719 --> 02:03:46,480 attorney general say hey Monroe County or Mark Brandt if they do it they've 1085 02:03:43,599 --> 02:03:51,199 made this application for Quo Warrento would you encourage the attorney general 1086 02:03:48,320 --> 02:03:53,199 to look at it and and give a swift decision 1087 02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:57,679 » that's where I was going because I don't want this to get dragged out 1088 02:03:54,960 --> 02:03:59,760 » well none of Who does? Who does none of us? 1089 02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:03,679 » Well, since since the whole case is about whether or not the seat was 1090 02:04:01,280 --> 02:04:10,000 vacated and we did not remove him because we couldn't remove him then. And 1091 02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:13,360 since the uh the judge when she ruled, she said that the seat had not been 1092 02:04:11,679 --> 02:04:18,560 vacated and there hasn't been any precedent about a commissioner being you 1093 02:04:15,920 --> 02:04:22,239 know vacating a seat in this manner. It just seems to me like we could at least 1094 02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:27,599 have him seated to take care of his district until it's decided. Since it 1095 02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:31,360 hasn't been decided that he vacated it, then why wasn't he allowed to sit up 1096 02:04:29,280 --> 02:04:36,480 here and he came up here initially when he first came out and he actually was 1097 02:04:34,239 --> 02:04:40,960 doing stuff for his constituents? He settled a dispute in his district 1098 02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:46,400 probably the first day out or something. Uh it just seems to me that if it hasn't 1099 02:04:43,599 --> 02:04:51,920 been decided that he was his seat was vacated. I just don't see how how we can 1100 02:04:49,199 --> 02:04:56,480 be uh holding off on District 2 having somebody in there. I am willing I'm I've 1101 02:04:54,880 --> 02:05:00,800 always been willing to take their calls and we make decisions that are for the 1102 02:04:58,239 --> 02:05:04,880 entire county. So, so I guess technically they're not without 1103 02:05:02,080 --> 02:05:09,920 representation, but it just seems to me like he should be able to go ahead and 1104 02:05:07,440 --> 02:05:14,639 be in that seat if it has not definitively been decided and there's no 1105 02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:17,520 precedent on it. So, and we could have done that last year. 1106 02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:21,440 » I'm I'm going to ask that Commissioner Leven was going to make a motion. 1107 02:05:19,760 --> 02:05:23,760 » I'll make a motion to follow the advice of council as uh indicated on the 1108 02:05:23,199 --> 02:05:26,000 record. >> I'll second that. Move 1109 02:05:25,040 --> 02:05:29,360 » by Lee and [clears throat] supported by Huffman. Now, any additional comments or 1110 02:05:28,159 --> 02:05:34,480 questions? >> All I want to say is if this character 1111 02:05:32,080 --> 02:05:38,639 would get up and leave and give the county back to us and let the new man up 1112 02:05:37,119 --> 02:05:44,960 here, we could put this whole thing to bed tonight instead of going on crazy. 1113 02:05:43,119 --> 02:05:50,000 If he had the guts to get up and get out of here, which he should, and Mr. Beniki 1114 02:05:48,239 --> 02:05:53,520 come up here, we go on with the county and do our business. This is all 1115 02:05:51,840 --> 02:05:58,480 madness. I don't know. You're in the history. What else do you want? Our 1116 02:05:56,320 --> 02:06:03,199 clerk said he was duly elected. >> Any other comments or questions? 1117 02:06:01,599 --> 02:06:07,199 » Hearing none. Roll call, please. >> Stupid. 1118 02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:09,119 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 1119 02:06:08,000 --> 02:06:11,360 » Commissioner Asper, >> no. 1120 02:06:10,080 --> 02:06:13,199 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> yes. 1121 02:06:12,159 --> 02:06:15,040 » Commissioner Lammore, >> yes. 1122 02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:16,800 » Commissioner Venzel, >> yes. 1123 02:06:15,679 --> 02:06:18,800 » Commissioner Schwart, >> no. 1124 02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:20,960 » Commissioner Moore, >> no. 1125 02:06:19,920 --> 02:06:25,679 » Commissioner Levens, >> yes. 1126 02:06:22,880 --> 02:06:28,080 » Motion carries. Yeah. You want me to stay up here for 1127 02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:31,119 the next one? >> Please. 1128 02:06:28,719 --> 02:06:35,040 » Okay. Do I have to? 1129 02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:40,079 » Our next item um that was originally supposed to be 1130 02:06:36,639 --> 02:06:45,947 discussed in close session um is the communication pursuant to the regarding 1131 02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:50,800 the forensic audit and um [laughter] I will turn that over to Mr. 1132 02:06:48,239 --> 02:06:57,280 Goldman. So, [clears throat] 1133 02:06:53,440 --> 02:07:03,360 you have all been provided with a um 1134 02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:12,880 MIDC billing analysis that was performed by Plant Moran. It's a forensic analysis 1135 02:07:08,239 --> 02:07:18,400 uh that focuses on the uh um within the scope that you provided Plant Moran. You 1136 02:07:14,800 --> 02:07:25,599 wanted Plant Moran to investigate uh the billing practices of one of the MIDC 1137 02:07:22,000 --> 02:07:31,199 uh council, one of the MIDC attorneys. And so 1138 02:07:27,360 --> 02:07:36,800 um I received that late on Friday. um and then uh uh spoke with chairman 1139 02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:41,040 Venzel um and provided that electronically to all of you. I hope 1140 02:07:39,280 --> 02:07:47,920 that all of you have had the opportunity to review that. Uh but the long and 1141 02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:53,920 short of it is um that this um this billing analysis shows uh based on the 1142 02:07:51,199 --> 02:08:00,079 investigation of plant Moran uh that there uh were improper billing practices 1143 02:07:56,960 --> 02:08:05,119 employed by the MIDC attorney here in Monroe County uh that resulted in um 1144 02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:13,280 overbilling um and u u it's it's straightforward. I 1145 02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:20,159 I read it carefully. I looked at all the charts and the graphs that were 1146 02:08:14,639 --> 02:08:26,079 provided. And so um um it's um pretty com 1147 02:08:22,480 --> 02:08:33,199 attorney uh took liberty with the way he built for the work he performed. Um, and 1148 02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:38,079 Plant Maran I I don't think uh matter of fact I know they didn't they weren't 1149 02:08:34,960 --> 02:08:42,880 unable to come up with a dollar amount. Uh, but they showed um over the course 1150 02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:46,880 of their investigation within the time parameters that they were uh that was 1151 02:08:45,360 --> 02:08:54,480 the scope of their investigative authority. uh they showed uh the billing 1152 02:08:49,840 --> 02:09:00,400 practices which um uh the county uh appears to have been grossly overbuild 1153 02:08:57,520 --> 02:09:05,280 uh for work perform. Uh it doesn't address uh the sufficiency of the legal 1154 02:09:03,199 --> 02:09:10,079 work. Uh I don't think it was ever intended to do that. It just uh the 1155 02:09:07,599 --> 02:09:16,880 billing practices and the hours and with intens of hours that were build shows uh 1156 02:09:12,960 --> 02:09:23,440 extraordinary time spent um on on many days. So um 1157 02:09:20,159 --> 02:09:27,679 I think that this board has to uh um decide what to do next and there are a 1158 02:09:25,599 --> 02:09:34,880 number of things that can be uh done with respect to this. uh uh one it could 1159 02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:41,040 be uh I think this this report should be sent to the MIDC uh because the they're 1160 02:09:38,239 --> 02:09:46,880 the state um and that agency has oversight and they need to be aware of 1161 02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:54,159 that and this will assist them um in u their oversight of u indigent defense uh 1162 02:09:51,760 --> 02:10:00,800 uh council operation. it will help them, I think. Um um and it's been suggested 1163 02:09:58,079 --> 02:10:06,400 that maybe it should be sent to uh the attorney general to take a look at it um 1164 02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:12,239 in terms of whether or not there are any violations that the attorney general uh 1165 02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:20,000 might see fit to pursue. Um and lastly, it's been suggested that um and the the 1166 02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:26,719 um uh forensic uh uh consultant uh indicated a couple of different uh um 1167 02:10:23,280 --> 02:10:32,880 ethics um provisions that uh perhaps have been violated. So, um it should be 1168 02:10:30,400 --> 02:10:36,800 sent to uh the Attorney grievance commission for their review. What they 1169 02:10:34,960 --> 02:10:43,119 do with it is up to them. What the attorney general does with it, it's up 1170 02:10:38,880 --> 02:10:50,400 to them. and what and what the MIDC um at the state level does with it. It's up 1171 02:10:45,440 --> 02:10:56,800 to them. But um it's um really a a pretty uh sad report on the billing 1172 02:10:52,960 --> 02:11:02,000 practices of this one attorney >> and also that a copy of this report go 1173 02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:04,880 to the sixth amendment feasibility study. 1174 02:11:02,560 --> 02:11:10,000 » Yeah. because they're they're they're investigating 1175 02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:15,199 um at the request of the county. Um and with MIDC 1176 02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:19,199 um they're investigating would it be in the best interest of Monroe County? I 1177 02:11:17,360 --> 02:11:23,360 think part of the scope of their investigation is would it be in the best 1178 02:11:21,360 --> 02:11:31,280 interest of Monroe County to continue the current uh practice of assign of 1179 02:11:26,639 --> 02:11:36,000 assigned council? um um or would it be in the best interest of Monroe County to 1180 02:11:33,360 --> 02:11:39,360 consider a public defender's office? And there's a lot of moving parts with all 1181 02:11:37,679 --> 02:11:45,840 of that and there's a lot of financial considerations uh with all of that, but 1182 02:11:42,320 --> 02:11:50,560 uh um I think it would be appropriate to uh um send it to them as well. 1183 02:11:49,599 --> 02:11:54,480 » Mr. Chairman, >> yes. Um given the indication the report 1184 02:11:52,800 --> 02:11:58,320 that we have and did its executive summary, it went through some some 1185 02:11:56,320 --> 02:12:04,400 highlight portions concerning over billing patterns uh rec recalculation of 1186 02:12:01,920 --> 02:12:11,679 ours using the attorneys provided corrections. Uh and interestingly in 1187 02:12:07,040 --> 02:12:16,400 those uh corrections uh days that were in excess of 24 hours actually 1188 02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:21,119 increased. Uh and and this is no longer true because we're doing this in open 1189 02:12:18,239 --> 02:12:25,360 session. um these documents are no longer uh covered by attorney client 1190 02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:28,239 privilege. These are now um public documents. Correct, Mr. Goldsmith. 1191 02:12:27,520 --> 02:12:35,119 » Correct. >> And so it indicated now there's uh one 1192 02:12:30,880 --> 02:12:39,679 day that was build um 28.6 hours. I think we'd all love to have a 28.6h hour 1193 02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:46,639 uh day to get all the things we want to get done in a day. So there was that. um 1194 02:12:43,520 --> 02:12:53,760 uh problematic uh so-called block and bundled billing, duplicative billings uh 1195 02:12:49,440 --> 02:12:59,520 and not a couple but over 150 duplicate billings for just the the small segment. 1196 02:12:57,360 --> 02:13:06,880 And to put in perspective, this wasn't an anomaly of of a few dollars. It 1197 02:13:02,560 --> 02:13:13,679 wasn't even $100, $1,000, $10,000, $100,000, 200, 3000, 400, 500. This is 1198 02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:18,079 over $600,000 that went to the and this is something 1199 02:13:15,199 --> 02:13:22,000 that the chairman uh myself and other members of this board railed upon when 1200 02:13:19,920 --> 02:13:27,599 we saw these claims coming through. And the more that our staff ignored it and 1201 02:13:25,440 --> 02:13:32,239 uh and slowwalked us and refused to acknowledge something because of 1202 02:13:29,360 --> 02:13:37,280 arrogance, hubris, or whatever it is that they had that made it impossible 1203 02:13:34,719 --> 02:13:41,520 for them to see what was going on. it exceeded over a half a million dollars. 1204 02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:46,079 And again, this isn't saying that the work that was actually done, whatever 1205 02:13:43,440 --> 02:13:50,320 that number might ever ever be surmised because of how horrible the uh bills 1206 02:13:48,880 --> 02:13:53,440 that were coming up to this board, like bills are going to come up again in a in 1207 02:13:52,159 --> 02:13:58,639 a few moments that we're going to have to approve, but I'm not going to approve 1208 02:13:55,280 --> 02:14:04,400 them based on this uh chronologically impossible charges for uh billing things 1209 02:14:01,679 --> 02:14:10,000 uh in times when uh chronologically impossible. um accuracy and procedural 1210 02:14:07,440 --> 02:14:14,639 considerations that completely were were ignored and finally uh you know some 1211 02:14:13,119 --> 02:14:19,599 other things that uh you know go into the weeds of it. So based on that I'm 1212 02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:26,560 going to make the motion that uh it is referred to the uh uh the organizations 1213 02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:32,960 and uh and agencies that council uh recommended that was 1214 02:14:30,480 --> 02:14:36,960 MIDC that's a nod. Yes. Yes. The uh the 1215 02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:39,520 attorney general's correct? >> Yes. 1216 02:14:37,440 --> 02:14:43,760 » This uh sixth amendment uh and that's the uh independent study on whether we 1217 02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:44,880 uh proceed to a public defender's office. 1218 02:14:44,320 --> 02:14:49,520 » Yes. >> And then finally the uh the attorney 1219 02:14:47,280 --> 02:14:52,960 grievance commission uh for their professional route. And that was based 1220 02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:57,040 that's not based on your recommendation. That's not based on mine. That's not 1221 02:14:54,719 --> 02:15:02,000 based on any member of the board or a citizen here that came and and said uh 1222 02:14:59,199 --> 02:15:07,679 yeah, I'm this is from the uh the actuaries themselves that said that that 1223 02:15:04,800 --> 02:15:15,199 because that makes all attorneys cringe. Well, it and so when the actuaries uh 1224 02:15:11,280 --> 02:15:18,960 mention that um you and I as attorneys have an obligation under our ethics 1225 02:15:17,040 --> 02:15:25,599 » going and I'm glad that you steal my thunder because uh this brings me no joy 1226 02:15:22,560 --> 02:15:30,400 uh whatsoever. But at the same time, I'm not going to sherk my uh fiduciary 1227 02:15:28,239 --> 02:15:33,679 responsibilities, my ethical cons because the Michigan rules professional 1228 02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:39,040 conduct, we are mandatory reporters. When we see something like this, we 1229 02:15:35,679 --> 02:15:42,400 can't uh we can't hide it. We can't uh you know, conceal it. Uh you know, put 1230 02:15:40,880 --> 02:15:45,280 on I mean, we have a duty. Is that accurate? 1231 02:15:43,199 --> 02:15:48,159 » Yes. We're not going to we're not going to offer an opinion. We're going to 1232 02:15:46,639 --> 02:15:50,320 submit it to them and let them do what they want. 1233 02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:54,480 » But based on based on this, uh our hands are kind of tied. When we when something 1234 02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:58,400 of this nature comes before us, we have an affirmative duty to to advance it. 1235 02:15:56,719 --> 02:16:00,960 » You are correct. >> Motion. 1236 02:15:58,880 --> 02:16:06,960 » So, I make that motion. And I also um from the folks uh my former uh uh you 1237 02:16:04,079 --> 02:16:11,360 know predecessor in Bedford asking for transparency. Miss Pedmont's been here 1238 02:16:09,119 --> 02:16:15,599 more times than I can count on on one hand, maybe more times on two hands. Um 1239 02:16:13,920 --> 02:16:19,280 there have been some other members that uh say, "Hey, uh including the the three 1240 02:16:17,840 --> 02:16:23,119 down there that uh we're going to do this in open session. I'm going to ask 1241 02:16:21,119 --> 02:16:28,159 also my motion that this report be put on our website for anybody to know what 1242 02:16:25,360 --> 02:16:33,200 tens of thousand dollars of unnecessary um forensic accounting uh um uh produced 1243 02:16:31,440 --> 02:16:38,960 that could have been avoided had our staff uh done their job additionally a 1244 02:16:36,559 --> 02:16:42,800 year ago. That's my motion. >> I'll second that. 1245 02:16:40,719 --> 02:16:46,719 » Move by Le and supported by Huffman. Any comments on the motion? Questions? 1246 02:16:44,719 --> 02:16:51,519 Commissioner Asper. So in other words, we don't have a figure. We paid for the 1247 02:16:49,359 --> 02:16:57,200 forensic audit. We paid for additional forensic auditing. We don't have a 1248 02:16:53,840 --> 02:17:02,399 figure when we do all of this. Is there any money that will be coming back to us 1249 02:17:00,479 --> 02:17:08,080 or is somebody going to be deciding anything that that money would be given 1250 02:17:04,880 --> 02:17:13,040 back to um Monroe County? And I also would like to say that um fortunately at 1251 02:17:10,559 --> 02:17:20,319 least this attorney, my understanding is that he was doing indigent defense back 1252 02:17:16,319 --> 02:17:23,760 when they got peanuts for it. Um and I really think one of the problems is just 1253 02:17:22,080 --> 02:17:30,319 that some of the attorneys in this county don't believe their defense 1254 02:17:26,800 --> 02:17:36,319 attorneys. they don't believe that um that they should owe the county some 1255 02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:40,240 some sort of service for the indigent population. So there are, you know, so 1256 02:17:38,800 --> 02:17:45,120 there are some other things that go into this as well, but I just feel like we 1257 02:17:42,160 --> 02:17:48,160 spent all this money and now we don't Is there any way through these four 1258 02:17:46,639 --> 02:17:52,479 agencies that you're talking about us sending this to that we actually get 1259 02:17:50,479 --> 02:17:55,920 this money reimbursed? Do we have a number? 1260 02:17:52,960 --> 02:18:00,000 » May interrupt. The reason why um I I endorse uh the recommendations is so 1261 02:17:58,399 --> 02:18:02,319 that the county doesn't hemorrhage any any more money on this that we send it 1262 02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:05,840 to. >> Is he still working for us? 1263 02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:09,439 » I can't speak to that. All I can say is >> he hasn't been working for us. So I just 1264 02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:14,319 want to know the bottom line. I know I want to know how much money if we spent 1265 02:18:12,160 --> 02:18:19,280 all this money for a forensic audit, how much money are we owed? They didn't 1266 02:18:17,040 --> 02:18:24,240 determine that. That's not part of it. So, so we weren't ever going to find out 1267 02:18:22,319 --> 02:18:26,319 how much money would come back to the county. We're just going to punish this 1268 02:18:25,840 --> 02:18:30,000 person >> responsible. I don't want to get into 1269 02:18:28,160 --> 02:18:35,840 the weeds of it too much, but this analysis you're talking about maybe if 1270 02:18:32,639 --> 02:18:39,760 this had been uh uh taken with seriousness when it was first brought to 1271 02:18:37,920 --> 02:18:46,880 everyone's attention, it wouldn't have been such a uh a gargantuan uh project. 1272 02:18:44,399 --> 02:18:54,160 But this isn't one week, one month. this continued over uh a year. And so as you 1273 02:18:50,719 --> 02:18:58,639 recall when this uh was engaged, it was uh a snapshot that was going to be 1274 02:18:56,319 --> 02:19:02,559 reviewed. And so the the numbers and it's in this report, tens of thousands 1275 02:19:00,399 --> 02:19:06,800 of dollars that uh are double billing, so on and so forth. But uh my my 1276 02:19:05,120 --> 02:19:10,479 position based on council, this report, and the rest, is that we stop the 1277 02:19:08,719 --> 02:19:15,599 hemorrhaging and have the uh the folks that are situated uh in charge to take 1278 02:19:13,439 --> 02:19:20,399 it uh the rest of the way. and we we've done our job. So that way we're not 1279 02:19:17,280 --> 02:19:27,120 spending tens and thousands more on all of these uh 1280 02:19:24,719 --> 02:19:31,200 forensic and uh you know other things that take us away from our business. Our 1281 02:19:29,359 --> 02:19:34,800 job as a fiduciary to have these bills come before us. Uh they were taken on 1282 02:19:33,439 --> 02:19:40,160 the assumption that they've been you know properly vetted and and presented 1283 02:19:36,880 --> 02:19:45,280 and just ready for our our approval. And of course when we did the when we had it 1284 02:19:42,399 --> 02:19:50,000 investigated or I should say uh reviewed by Raymond uh we thought that that was 1285 02:19:48,319 --> 02:19:54,640 going to be a forensic audit and then we found out later no that actually hadn't 1286 02:19:52,720 --> 02:19:59,280 been a forensic audit. So you needed to do that and I was the one that required 1287 02:19:57,359 --> 02:20:03,439 you know required us to get Raymond here to actually do the report because I 1288 02:20:01,040 --> 02:20:06,560 don't like secondhand information. And then that's when we found out that it 1289 02:20:04,960 --> 02:20:09,520 actually wasn't a forensic audit and we were going to have to get somebody else 1290 02:20:07,520 --> 02:20:13,920 because Raymond wouldn't do it. So, we keep spending this money, but I don't 1291 02:20:11,040 --> 02:20:18,560 see that it's, you know, I mean, we need to if if there was money that was taken 1292 02:20:16,399 --> 02:20:22,960 from us improperly, it there should be a pathway back here. So, we can go ahead 1293 02:20:20,960 --> 02:20:26,560 and spend all this stuff, you know, sending these things out to these other 1294 02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:32,160 agencies, which obviously it has to be done. But I I just want to know, is 1295 02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:36,800 there a way to to retrieve some of this money? I mean, in fact, even Plant Moran 1296 02:20:35,200 --> 02:20:43,359 said that they don't make judgments on this. they just, you know, give you an 1297 02:20:39,359 --> 02:20:45,120 idea of patterns. So, but still, I don't see anything about us getting 1298 02:20:44,357 --> 02:20:48,800 [clears throat] any money back. >> The bigger issue is that this model has 1299 02:20:46,960 --> 02:20:53,359 to be fixed. I mean, you're going to see on the bills tonight that there there 1300 02:20:50,720 --> 02:20:58,160 are some claims that are $27,000, $22,000, and there's no way for us to 1301 02:20:55,760 --> 02:21:02,319 know is this a monthly claim, is this a quarterly claim? And those were uh 1302 02:21:00,880 --> 02:21:07,520 concerns that were supposed to be addressed, but they don't seem to to get 1303 02:21:04,960 --> 02:21:10,960 addressed. And so more than I agree with Commissioner Leven, we need to stop the 1304 02:21:09,120 --> 02:21:16,640 hemorrhaging, but we need to we need to fix a a broken model here of how we 1305 02:21:13,920 --> 02:21:21,760 deliver uh def a defense for the indigent. Um and so there was no way 1306 02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:26,800 around this uh other than for us to proceed the way we did which was to take 1307 02:21:24,319 --> 02:21:31,200 the initial initial findings or recommendations from Raymond take it a 1308 02:21:28,960 --> 02:21:34,640 step further with plant man with the forensic audit and they've done their 1309 02:21:32,960 --> 02:21:39,040 work and now it's our obligation to turn it over to let other agencies do their 1310 02:21:36,800 --> 02:21:45,280 work. I know. But what what a lot of this came about was because you want to 1311 02:21:41,760 --> 02:21:49,120 do the defense a different way. And the problem is when I first got on this 1312 02:21:46,720 --> 02:21:55,520 board nine years ago, I was all for having um um public defenders office and 1313 02:21:52,960 --> 02:22:01,120 so forth. And then I looked into it and in everything that I've seen 1314 02:21:58,479 --> 02:22:07,439 it has been this, you know, basically if we can't if we were a lousy county that 1315 02:22:04,080 --> 02:22:11,760 couldn't meet the qualifications of being able to, you know, properly do 1316 02:22:09,120 --> 02:22:15,120 defense and so forth, then MIDC would say, "Okay, you're going to have a 1317 02:22:12,960 --> 02:22:20,319 public defender." But it's always been a lesser thing. We have extraordinary 1318 02:22:17,439 --> 02:22:22,479 people that work for us. Extraordinary people. 1319 02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:24,240 That's what we have with this county right here. 1320 02:22:23,600 --> 02:22:25,840 » First of all, >> we don't we don't have an amount though. 1321 02:22:25,439 --> 02:22:27,920 I think >> it's never our decision. 1322 02:22:26,880 --> 02:22:30,960 » We don't have an amount. >> It's not going to be our decision. 1323 02:22:29,280 --> 02:22:34,960 » And it wasn't us. It was supposedly staff. So, I don't know. 1324 02:22:32,399 --> 02:22:37,840 » Could Could I ask the uh motion maker because essentially we have three 1325 02:22:36,640 --> 02:22:42,160 different issues there and I'm wondering if you'd break your motion up into two 1326 02:22:39,439 --> 02:22:45,760 and one because sending it to MIDC I'm fine with. Sending it to the attorney 1327 02:22:43,760 --> 02:22:48,560 general I'm fine with. But Trojan horsing in, oh, and by the way, we're 1328 02:22:47,200 --> 02:22:51,280 going to send this to a group to study us, switching over to a public 1329 02:22:49,680 --> 02:22:55,840 defender's office. I think that's a totally separate issue. And I wouldn't 1330 02:22:53,520 --> 02:22:59,280 be comfortable voting yes on this on that one issue, but I'm totally 1331 02:22:57,120 --> 02:23:02,960 comfortable on voting on the other two issues. So, could could we break that up 1332 02:23:01,120 --> 02:23:05,439 into I mean, it's two totally separate issues in in my mind. 1333 02:23:04,160 --> 02:23:09,680 » So, you don't want the firm that's doing a feasibility study to determine whether 1334 02:23:07,280 --> 02:23:12,720 or not we should possibly change models to have the information? 1335 02:23:10,960 --> 02:23:15,120 » Not until this gets to MIDC and the attorney general and they make a 1336 02:23:13,840 --> 02:23:18,720 decision on it. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Well, yeah, I you know, he made the 1337 02:23:17,120 --> 02:23:21,600 motion. We have support for the motion. Um, if there's no other comments, I 1338 02:23:20,479 --> 02:23:24,399 would accept an amendment. >> Would he accept an amendment just to 1339 02:23:22,880 --> 02:23:27,840 make that a separate motion? >> No, let's call for the vote. 1340 02:23:26,960 --> 02:23:31,200 » Roll call, please. >> I'll see what's going on here. 1341 02:23:28,640 --> 02:23:33,760 » Did he just say call the question? >> We're going to vote. 1342 02:23:32,000 --> 02:23:38,560 » You need a You need a second on that. And that's a two3. 1343 02:23:36,080 --> 02:23:40,319 » Okay. Sounded [laughter] like it. >> Roll call. 1344 02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:43,760 » Commissioner Swart out. >> Yes. 1345 02:23:41,200 --> 02:23:45,680 » Commissioner Moore. No. 1346 02:23:44,640 --> 02:23:47,680 » Commissioner Levens. >> Yes. 1347 02:23:46,479 --> 02:23:49,600 » Commissioner Hoffman. >> Yes. 1348 02:23:48,479 --> 02:23:52,000 » Commissioner Asper. >> No. 1349 02:23:50,720 --> 02:23:53,680 » Commissioner Hinderling. >> Yes. 1350 02:23:52,720 --> 02:23:55,359 » Commissioner Lammore. >> Yes. 1351 02:23:54,399 --> 02:23:59,240 » Commissioner Venzel. >> Yes. 1352 02:23:55,840 --> 02:23:59,240 » Motion carries. 1353 02:23:59,280 --> 02:24:04,359 » Thank you, Mr. Goldman. >> You're welcome. 1354 02:24:21,600 --> 02:24:30,240 Uh, next on the agenda is the um resolution special tributes and 1355 02:24:28,080 --> 02:24:36,160 presentation and a CASA presentation. Are are we moving forward with that? 1356 02:24:34,240 --> 02:24:40,800 » Courtesy and respect to them. They they'll reschedule, Mr. Chairman. So, 1357 02:24:38,240 --> 02:24:44,080 they needed to move on. So don't thank thank you. 1358 02:24:41,439 --> 02:24:46,399 » I took it upon myself to just >> allow them to excuse themselves. 1359 02:24:45,359 --> 02:24:50,640 » I appreciate it. Thank you. >> But you do have their presentation, I 1360 02:24:48,240 --> 02:24:54,399 believe, Grace. So you have that. We'll schedule another time. 1361 02:24:52,560 --> 02:24:58,960 » Thank you. Uh next, moving into finance matters. Um 1362 02:24:56,800 --> 02:25:06,840 item number one, payment of the February 18, 2026 accounts payable current claims 1363 02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:06,840 report in the amount of uh $1,55,551.72. 1364 02:25:07,680 --> 02:25:14,560 Could I get a motion, please? So move >> moved by Lam more. Is there support? 1365 02:25:13,439 --> 02:25:17,680 » Second. >> Supported by Heiserling. Uh now I'll 1366 02:25:16,640 --> 02:25:21,840 turn it over to Sue. >> Good evening. On page number one, vendor 1367 02:25:20,000 --> 02:25:27,359 number 40572, Dewolf and Associates. It's training for 1368 02:25:24,319 --> 02:25:32,960 a dispatch and sheriff employee. On page number two, vendor number 60205, 1369 02:25:30,560 --> 02:25:38,319 Fiddler Technologies. It's annual fee for the register of deed software. 1370 02:25:35,359 --> 02:25:43,600 Vendor number 80904, House Arrest Services. It's the det December indigent 1371 02:25:41,439 --> 02:25:46,600 tether services provided through various courts. 1372 02:25:47,920 --> 02:25:56,560 On page number four, vendor number 1 190935, Schoolcraft College. It's a 1373 02:25:53,040 --> 02:26:03,520 cadet academy for six recruits. Page number five, vendor number 510855, 1374 02:26:00,080 --> 02:26:08,120 title title check LLC. certified mail fees for the tax foreclosure notices. 1375 02:26:09,920 --> 02:26:15,600 And on page number seven, vendor number 903107, 1376 02:26:13,600 --> 02:26:19,280 Lenway County Drain Commissioner, it's reimbursement of county portion of 1377 02:26:17,520 --> 02:26:23,680 maintenance on a shared drain. And that's the end of my list. 1378 02:26:22,399 --> 02:26:27,359 » Other questions? >> Just have one question, please. 1379 02:26:25,920 --> 02:26:31,359 » We're on the first page here. this affordable interior systems. I know it's 1380 02:26:29,280 --> 02:26:36,960 probably one of the big projects, but uh >> I believe that was furniture for the 1381 02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:41,280 Stoner Keling project. >> I'm I'm just curious what So, it's just 1382 02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:46,640 an order. It's a affordable interior systems 88,000. Is that on one of the uh 1383 02:26:44,479 --> 02:26:51,600 with Jamie or it's not Jamie? >> It's the Stoner Keling project. It's the 1384 02:26:49,520 --> 02:26:54,160 furniture replacement for Stoner Keling project. 1385 02:26:53,680 --> 02:26:56,880 » Thank you. >> Yes, it is another big project. Thank 1386 02:26:56,399 --> 02:26:59,680 you. >> Sure. 1387 02:26:57,439 --> 02:27:06,640 » Other questions? >> I have a question on page six. Uh vendor 1388 02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:10,880 code number 750521. The amount is the amount uh what period 1389 02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:16,080 of time is that amount for? >> That I do not know, but it is 68 1390 02:27:13,840 --> 02:27:19,280 individual invoices. So I would imagine that's more than a 1391 02:27:17,760 --> 02:27:23,040 month. I don't know that without looking. 1392 02:27:21,359 --> 02:27:28,720 » Okay. Because you know when I when I read this forensic u audit um part of it 1393 02:27:26,720 --> 02:27:32,399 said the county noted uh as the review took place changes were made by the 1394 02:27:30,800 --> 02:27:36,080 county office to practices and procedures related to assignment 1395 02:27:34,479 --> 02:27:40,240 procedures case load distribution billing software and tracking monthly. 1396 02:27:38,399 --> 02:27:43,040 » Can I interrupt you a second? I agree with all of your com. May I quickly? 1397 02:27:42,907 --> 02:27:48,319 [clears throat] >> I'm familiar uh um with this matter and 1398 02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:54,479 there was a uh an internal issue with this individual uh vendor's office where 1399 02:27:51,280 --> 02:28:02,160 they uh needed to get uh new staffing and so those uh 68 invoices um represent 1400 02:27:58,800 --> 02:28:07,760 uh a backlog where things were submitted um from from prior things. And um I I'm 1401 02:28:05,680 --> 02:28:12,160 totally on the same page where you know we're you know supposed to be getting 1402 02:28:10,319 --> 02:28:16,880 these uh updates so it just doesn't come to us blindly but I get these and uh and 1403 02:28:14,720 --> 02:28:21,920 I do my due diligence and I speak out. So this represents a couple months when 1404 02:28:19,359 --> 02:28:26,240 that individual attorney was short staffed to get uh you know their 1405 02:28:23,520 --> 02:28:29,280 invoices in. I I fully accept that. It would just help us because it was stated 1406 02:28:27,760 --> 02:28:33,200 that there's going to be tracking monthly and so if there was tracking 1407 02:28:31,280 --> 02:28:38,000 monthly there there could be a little side note with the claims to say listen 1408 02:28:35,520 --> 02:28:41,840 there there's 68 different entries and this is because there was a snafu with 1409 02:28:39,920 --> 02:28:44,960 the billing system and so it covers not just one month but it covers three 1410 02:28:43,280 --> 02:28:48,000 months makes it a lot easier to vote on the entire claim package when we know 1411 02:28:46,800 --> 02:28:50,960 this kind of thing. Does that does that make sense? 1412 02:28:49,200 --> 02:28:55,840 » Yes. I think that information would be better to come through the MIDC office 1413 02:28:53,520 --> 02:28:59,760 though. So, do you want to have an addendum to this this report? 1414 02:28:57,920 --> 02:29:03,760 » Well, and and it because it said the county noted. So, if that's the MIDC 1415 02:29:01,600 --> 02:29:08,720 office, then why aren't they doing that for us? That would be the question. 1416 02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:14,600 » I can't answer for them. >> Okay. All right. Any other questions? 1417 02:29:15,120 --> 02:29:18,640 Thank you. Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Lammore, 1418 02:29:18,080 --> 02:29:20,080 » yes. >> Commissioner Venzel, 1419 02:29:19,680 --> 02:29:21,600 » yes. >> Commissioner Schwart, 1420 02:29:21,120 --> 02:29:23,920 » yes. >> Commissioner Moore, 1421 02:29:22,560 --> 02:29:26,000 » yes. Commissioner Levens. >> No. 1422 02:29:24,880 --> 02:29:27,600 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 1423 02:29:26,479 --> 02:29:29,200 » Commissioner Asper, >> yes. 1424 02:29:28,080 --> 02:29:30,319 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> yes. 1425 02:29:29,439 --> 02:29:32,800 » Motion carries. >> Thank you. 1426 02:29:32,000 --> 02:29:38,479 » Thank you. >> Thank you. 1427 02:29:35,439 --> 02:29:41,640 » Look at this. >> Still there. 1428 02:29:52,880 --> 02:30:00,560 Uh, next next up is item number two, letter dated February 9, 2026 for Mr. 1429 02:29:58,399 --> 02:30:03,840 Jesse Stanford, Monro County Treasurer, submitting the cash and investment 1430 02:30:02,240 --> 02:30:07,439 report for the quarter end of December 31, 2025. Could we get a motion, please 1431 02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:09,200 » make the motion? >> I'll second that. 1432 02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:12,319 » Moved by Heiserling, supported by Huffman. I'll turn it over to Jesse. 1433 02:30:11,040 --> 02:30:19,120 » I'll make this real quick. It's been a long night. um basically over quarter 4 1434 02:30:16,000 --> 02:30:25,439 um we saw the uh Federal Reserve uh cut rates twice, once in October and once in 1435 02:30:21,600 --> 02:30:30,240 December. So that's uh that's the big news of quarter 4 for our uh 1436 02:30:27,920 --> 02:30:36,000 investments. It's made it harder for me to get um you know the same investment 1437 02:30:33,520 --> 02:30:40,640 because the rates are going down to that uh degree. And I'll answer any questions 1438 02:30:38,640 --> 02:30:44,080 or attempt to anyway. [snorts] >> Any questions for Jesse? 1439 02:30:44,319 --> 02:30:48,240 Thank you. Hearing none. Roll call, please. 1440 02:30:47,200 --> 02:30:49,680 » Commissioner Venzo, >> yes. 1441 02:30:48,640 --> 02:30:51,280 » Commissioner Sardo, >> yes. 1442 02:30:50,160 --> 02:30:52,640 » Commissioner Moore, >> yes. 1443 02:30:51,760 --> 02:30:54,240 » Commissioner Leven, >> yes. 1444 02:30:53,120 --> 02:30:55,520 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 1445 02:30:54,640 --> 02:30:56,960 » Commissioner Asper, >> yes. 1446 02:30:55,920 --> 02:30:58,240 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> yes. 1447 02:30:57,359 --> 02:30:59,439 » Commissioner Lammore, >> yes. 1448 02:30:58,640 --> 02:31:05,359 » Motion carries. >> Thank you. Thank you. 1449 02:31:02,479 --> 02:31:09,920 Next under consent agenda um approval of non-claims. Item A, check register dated 1450 02:31:07,680 --> 02:31:12,920 February 6, 2026 in the amount of 1,453,1544. 1451 02:31:14,399 --> 02:31:23,319 Uh item B, check register dated uh February 13, 2026 in the amount of 1452 02:31:20,319 --> 02:31:23,319 $425,13767. 1453 02:31:24,399 --> 02:31:29,600 Could I get a motion, please? Moved by Schwart out. 1454 02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:34,479 » Supported by Heiserling. Uh, any questions on this motion? 1455 02:31:33,040 --> 02:31:36,080 Seeing none, roll call, please. >> Commissioner Schwart, 1456 02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:37,280 » yes. >> Commissioner Moore, 1457 02:31:36,880 --> 02:31:38,800 » yes. >> Commissioner Levens, 1458 02:31:38,319 --> 02:31:40,399 » yes. >> Commissioner Hoffman, [clears throat] 1459 02:31:39,840 --> 02:31:41,760 » yes. >> Commissioner Asper, 1460 02:31:41,359 --> 02:31:43,359 » yes. >> Commissioner Heinserling, 1461 02:31:42,960 --> 02:31:45,040 » yes. >> Commissioner Malmore, 1462 02:31:44,399 --> 02:31:46,160 » yes. >> Commissioner Venzel, 1463 02:31:45,920 --> 02:31:49,760 » yes. >> Motion carries. 1464 02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:54,800 » Next, under communications, a letter dated February 6, 2026 from Mr. Michael 1465 02:31:52,800 --> 02:32:00,000 Premo, Chief Deputy, requesting approval to apply for the fiscal year 2026 marine 1466 02:31:58,080 --> 02:32:04,319 safety grant to the Michigan Department of Natural Resources in the amount of 1467 02:32:02,080 --> 02:32:09,280 $59,84. The potential local match is included in 1468 02:32:06,240 --> 02:32:10,479 the 2026 adopted budget. Could I get a motion? 1469 02:32:09,840 --> 02:32:12,160 » Motion. >> Second. 1470 02:32:10,800 --> 02:32:17,760 » Moved by Heiserling, supported by Lamore. Any questions on this motion? 1471 02:32:16,160 --> 02:32:19,760 » Seeing none, roll call, please. >> Commissioner Moore, 1472 02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:22,640 » yes. >> Commissioner Levens, 1473 02:32:20,960 --> 02:32:24,080 » yes. Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 1474 02:32:23,120 --> 02:32:25,680 » Commissioner Asper, >> yes. 1475 02:32:24,560 --> 02:32:27,200 » Commissioner Heinderling, >> yes. 1476 02:32:26,160 --> 02:32:28,720 » Commissioner Lammore, >> yes. 1477 02:32:27,760 --> 02:32:30,240 » Commissioner Venzel, >> yes. 1478 02:32:29,200 --> 02:32:31,439 » Commissioner Swart out, >> yes. 1479 02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:35,680 » Motion carries. >> Item number two, letter dated February 1480 02:32:33,200 --> 02:32:39,600 9th, 2026 from Miss Jamie Dean, health director, requesting approval to accept 1481 02:32:37,840 --> 02:32:43,760 a public health capacity building's miniig grant in the amount of $10,000 1482 02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:46,000 with no matching funds required. Could I get a motion? 1483 02:32:44,160 --> 02:32:51,680 » I'll make the motion. Second move by Leven, supported by Huffman. Uh, any 1484 02:32:48,240 --> 02:32:54,080 questions on this motion? Hearing none. Roll call, please. 1485 02:32:53,040 --> 02:32:55,680 » Commissioner Levens, >> yes. 1486 02:32:54,560 --> 02:32:57,200 » Commissioner Hoffman, >> yes. 1487 02:32:56,160 --> 02:32:58,800 » Commissioner Asper, >> yes. 1488 02:32:57,680 --> 02:33:00,319 » Commissioner Heinserling, >> yes. 1489 02:32:59,200 --> 02:33:01,840 » Commissioner Lammore, >> yes. 1490 02:33:00,800 --> 02:33:03,439 » Commissioner Venzel, >> yes. 1491 02:33:02,319 --> 02:33:05,040 » Commissioner Swart out, >> yes. 1492 02:33:04,000 --> 02:33:07,520 » Commissioner Moore, >> yes. 1493 02:33:05,439 --> 02:33:12,000 » Motion carries. >> And item number three, letter dated 1494 02:33:08,960 --> 02:33:14,960 February 17, 2026 from Mr. Jason Barry, community planning and engagement 1495 02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:19,920 director, requesting approval to apply for the 2026 Michigan Public Safety 1496 02:33:18,000 --> 02:33:25,920 Critical Incident Mapping Competitive Grant for $23,785.60 1497 02:33:23,680 --> 02:33:28,479 with no local match matching funds required. Could I get a motion? 1498 02:33:27,600 --> 02:33:32,880 » Motion second. >> Moved by SWAT, supported by Heiserling. 1499 02:33:30,800 --> 02:33:39,200 Uh, are there questions on this motion? >> What is a safety critical incident 1500 02:33:35,120 --> 02:33:43,920 mapping competitive grant? Mr. Barry, >> good evening everyone. Um this is a 1501 02:33:41,439 --> 02:33:48,560 grant that uh we hope to apply for to help uh update our current mapping 1502 02:33:45,760 --> 02:33:53,600 system. Um currently we have maps that if there was a critical incident um that 1503 02:33:51,760 --> 02:33:59,600 happened, we would first responders would use them to best uh respond. Um 1504 02:33:56,800 --> 02:34:04,640 but this grant will help us uh contract with uh the critical response group to 1505 02:34:02,080 --> 02:34:10,640 provide all that in electronic platform so that all first responders arrive to a 1506 02:34:06,960 --> 02:34:15,600 scene and can uh log into the system and be able to communicate uh with the 1507 02:34:12,720 --> 02:34:20,640 commander and know every inch inside of each of these buildings um further to 1508 02:34:18,720 --> 02:34:25,680 help them with their response. >> And so Mr. Barry, the uh um example you 1509 02:34:23,120 --> 02:34:32,200 gave us is this postcard that shows a uh a demo of a of a high school for for 1510 02:34:28,240 --> 02:34:32,200 example, this is the 1511 02:34:32,720 --> 02:34:40,720 the product that they would uh eventually provide to first responders. 1512 02:34:38,399 --> 02:34:46,640 » It's an overview and we have Mr. Zet Query here with us uh for with the CRG 1513 02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:51,359 group or with the CRG um organization who could answer that. 1514 02:34:49,120 --> 02:34:55,920 But um you know it's an overview because this program will have aerial views. Uh 1515 02:34:53,840 --> 02:35:02,240 we understand then it'll also be able to zoom in and comb through u all sorts of 1516 02:34:58,560 --> 02:35:06,880 uh exits and entrances. Um and just so you know that this group has uh already 1517 02:35:04,640 --> 02:35:12,560 worked with uh many of our local schools including Monroe uh Whiteford ID 1518 02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:17,680 Townships uh their schools uh as well um to to be able to have the offer this 1519 02:35:14,479 --> 02:35:23,200 service for first responders. So, um, yeah. So, we have nine in front of you 1520 02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:27,120 to consider. Um, if this was approved by the commissioners tonight, we could have 1521 02:35:24,640 --> 02:35:31,439 two more grants, uh, eligible for three total that we could look into other 1522 02:35:28,720 --> 02:35:36,399 buildings down the road. Um, CRG recommended that we, uh, begin this 1523 02:35:33,680 --> 02:35:40,399 project with these with these nine. Uh, sheriff, I spoke with the sheriff on 1524 02:35:38,319 --> 02:35:44,479 this. He he fully supports this. He thinks this would be great with for our 1525 02:35:42,319 --> 02:35:51,680 first responder first responders to have access to. Um so yeah um got Mr. Query 1526 02:35:49,359 --> 02:35:56,399 here if we he could answer any more of the more specific questions um of what 1527 02:35:54,800 --> 02:36:01,760 this looks like pulling it up on a platform 1528 02:35:57,920 --> 02:36:05,280 um and so forth. So >> I have one question. You think this is 1529 02:36:03,600 --> 02:36:09,920 going to help cure when I know that we got several streets in the county where 1530 02:36:08,479 --> 02:36:13,920 first responders and I've been in the same situation way back when I was on 1531 02:36:11,439 --> 02:36:19,520 the fire department where you get there and there addresses on another street 1532 02:36:16,319 --> 02:36:23,200 but it's the same street but it's maybe three miles or five miles or 10 miles 20 1533 02:36:21,520 --> 02:36:27,040 miles from where you're at and it falls into your 1534 02:36:24,880 --> 02:36:29,920 » zone with your number called >> and you're at the wrong place. This is 1535 02:36:28,560 --> 02:36:33,840 going to correct some of that because I know that's been crucial. Yeah, I think 1536 02:36:32,240 --> 02:36:39,359 we're I think that's a separate issue which we I am my department's are are 1537 02:36:36,080 --> 02:36:41,520 meeting with 911 and um Miss Donna Cooty Cudy to talk about that next week 1538 02:36:40,960 --> 02:36:43,439 actually. >> Trying to get that solved out there. 1539 02:36:42,960 --> 02:36:46,880 Yes. >> Yeah. That that's going to deal more 1540 02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:51,600 with the overlap and the addresses that that come across as uh confusing to 1541 02:36:49,600 --> 02:36:55,439 first responders. This is dealing with the actual building the the that each of 1542 02:36:54,160 --> 02:36:59,760 like the health department, the courthouse and so forth. So if for 1543 02:36:58,240 --> 02:37:04,640 example in this building if something were to happen first responders arrive 1544 02:37:02,160 --> 02:37:09,840 they log into the system they can tell tell you where the exit is where 1545 02:37:06,720 --> 02:37:15,920 everywhere uh that that they would need to know with who's ever in command uh 1546 02:37:12,720 --> 02:37:18,640 can then make decisions. So um yeah it's a little bit of a 1547 02:37:17,040 --> 02:37:21,280 » so they'll have to tour tour all the buildings in correct. 1548 02:37:19,760 --> 02:37:25,760 » Yeah they're going to be using the technologies. You know someone asked why 1549 02:37:24,240 --> 02:37:27,920 why wouldn't the county do this? We don't have these technologies to do 1550 02:37:27,120 --> 02:37:30,399 that. That's >> it's it's I can see where it's very good 1551 02:37:29,520 --> 02:37:34,560 because when >> when you're on a call and the room's 1552 02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:38,240 full of smoke or you got somebody down somewhere and you don't even know the 1553 02:37:35,840 --> 02:37:42,880 first thing about the building and a lot of lives can be saved and rescued. No, I 1554 02:37:40,479 --> 02:37:47,040 agree. It's probably well needed. Probably well needed. 1555 02:37:44,640 --> 02:37:52,800 » Yeah, Asper. Um, so does this does this 1556 02:37:50,080 --> 02:37:57,040 include like hardware for this or or how do they when you say they pull it up, 1557 02:37:54,960 --> 02:38:00,080 what are they pulling it up on? >> That's a great question, ma'am. So, my 1558 02:37:58,640 --> 02:38:04,160 name is Zach Query. I'm the director for Michigan uh at Critical Response Group. 1559 02:38:02,399 --> 02:38:06,800 My background very briefly, I spent a little bit over a decade in in Army 1560 02:38:05,520 --> 02:38:10,880 Special Operations where I was introduced to this mapping technique 1561 02:38:08,160 --> 02:38:14,640 overseas. Ultimately, we are not a uh there's there's no additional technology 1562 02:38:12,399 --> 02:38:17,920 required. How how this works is we take the old floor plans that are typically 1563 02:38:16,160 --> 02:38:21,120 out ofd. They're never accurate. They're never accessible to the responders that 1564 02:38:19,359 --> 02:38:24,560 need them. We come on site to these locations. We walk the structures. We 1565 02:38:22,800 --> 02:38:28,240 fix the maps. We make them accurate. And we gather the key data that's useful to 1566 02:38:26,399 --> 02:38:32,720 responders inside the building. So, you know, fire alarm control panels, you 1567 02:38:30,000 --> 02:38:35,840 know, fire fire hydrants, uh, AEDs, you know, the things that matter to the 1568 02:38:34,000 --> 02:38:39,359 first responders and they respond from anything from a medical emergency to the 1569 02:38:37,359 --> 02:38:42,640 worst case scenario of an active threat. When we look at these largecale active 1570 02:38:41,040 --> 02:38:45,840 threat incidents uh, that that tragically occur across our country, 1571 02:38:44,080 --> 02:38:49,280 it's never one agency that shows up to these things. You have municipal, 1572 02:38:47,439 --> 02:38:53,120 county, state, surrounding counties pushing resources and everybody has a 1573 02:38:51,600 --> 02:38:57,600 different technology platform. Everybody has a different software. So the way we 1574 02:38:55,520 --> 02:39:00,960 approach this is we manipulate this mapping data to put it into the systems 1575 02:38:59,359 --> 02:39:04,720 that your first responders use every single day. So if there's an emergency 1576 02:39:02,800 --> 02:39:08,080 at the courthouse, 911 pulls it up in the system that they have and use for 1577 02:39:06,319 --> 02:39:11,439 every single call. The municipal police department has it on the laptops in 1578 02:39:09,840 --> 02:39:14,960 their vehicles as well as the fire department may have a mobile application 1579 02:39:12,880 --> 02:39:18,800 that they use. So we simply take our team, we go meet all those agencies, we 1580 02:39:17,040 --> 02:39:22,080 get these maps in their systems so everybody speaks the same language when 1581 02:39:20,640 --> 02:39:25,680 they when they approach on a scene and converge when they've never worked 1582 02:39:23,359 --> 02:39:30,479 together before. So um you know Michigan has been a fantastic um state. They have 1583 02:39:28,319 --> 02:39:34,080 funded uh and actually made legislation around school mapping standards. We had 1584 02:39:32,319 --> 02:39:37,600 the great fortune of winning about 90% of that business uh in the state of 1585 02:39:35,600 --> 02:39:41,920 Michigan. They then released more funding to do higher education where we 1586 02:39:39,840 --> 02:39:44,880 came in and done um you know all the community colleges, a lot of the the 1587 02:39:43,359 --> 02:39:48,000 universities in the state and now they've expanded it to critical 1588 02:39:46,319 --> 02:39:51,120 infrastructure for communities as well. So your government buildings, hospitals, 1589 02:39:49,600 --> 02:39:54,479 things of that nature, uh which is what we're kind of talking about today. So um 1590 02:39:53,040 --> 02:39:57,760 ma'am, I I hope that answers your question. 1591 02:39:56,560 --> 02:40:00,319 » Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, 1592 02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:05,280 » Zach. I want to thank you for your service. 1593 02:40:01,520 --> 02:40:09,200 » Thank you, sir. And so from a ROCS2 wannabe dropout, I have to give you a 1594 02:40:07,760 --> 02:40:13,600 hard time. Most people cross over to Delta. You crossed over to Nerd. 1595 02:40:12,235 --> 02:40:17,280 [laughter] >> Yeah, that's that's fair. That's fair. 1596 02:40:15,120 --> 02:40:20,640 » Fair enough. Thank your service. >> Thank you, sir. 1597 02:40:18,240 --> 02:40:22,960 » All right. Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Hoffman. 1598 02:40:21,760 --> 02:40:24,800 » Yes. Yes. >> Commissioner Asper. 1599 02:40:24,160 --> 02:40:26,560 » Yes. >> Commissioner Heinserling. 1600 02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:28,160 » Yes. >> Commissioner Lammore. 1601 02:40:27,600 --> 02:40:29,600 » Yes. >> Commissioner Venzel. 1602 02:40:29,200 --> 02:40:32,479 » Yes. >> Commissioner Swart out. 1603 02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:34,160 » Yes. Commissioner Moore, >> yes. 1604 02:40:33,120 --> 02:40:35,920 » Commissioner Levens, >> yes. 1605 02:40:34,479 --> 02:40:40,800 » Motion carries. >> Thank you. 1606 02:40:38,960 --> 02:40:44,280 » We have no public hearings. Uh, is there any old business? 1607 02:40:44,720 --> 02:40:48,280 Any new business? 1608 02:40:48,399 --> 02:40:56,200 Uh, we now enter the second segment of public comment. Are there citizens who 1609 02:40:52,399 --> 02:40:56,200 wish to address the board? 1610 02:41:01,439 --> 02:41:11,200 What the heck? I've waited this long. Uh Gail Kaine at uh District 8. 1611 02:41:08,000 --> 02:41:17,200 Um the first thing I wanted to address is this big money that was spent in the 1612 02:41:14,720 --> 02:41:22,560 legal realm of upstairs there on third floor or fourth, wherever. What are the 1613 02:41:19,840 --> 02:41:29,359 I heard the word staff. That tells me it's an employee. 1614 02:41:25,600 --> 02:41:34,880 So, you're taking care of it legally, but what are the consequences to the 1615 02:41:31,840 --> 02:41:38,880 staff that was referred to that wasn't sharing this information with you? I 1616 02:41:37,200 --> 02:41:43,439 would think that is something within your control. 1617 02:41:41,359 --> 02:41:50,319 Uh, as to the other, there was another question asked about does MTIS I I might 1618 02:41:46,560 --> 02:41:54,399 have my letters wrong. Um, and the person said they didn't know how they 1619 02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:59,439 could control that. I got a problem with that people. I got a problem with that. 1620 02:41:57,359 --> 02:42:05,200 If you're going to get up here and some group within whatever the money 1621 02:42:01,359 --> 02:42:10,720 situation is has been told and has promised a certain product, somebody 1622 02:42:08,319 --> 02:42:15,280 better have an answer as to why it's not being done that way and not just 1623 02:42:12,720 --> 02:42:20,000 sloughed under the rugs. Because frankly, that's kind of what I kind of 1624 02:42:16,960 --> 02:42:23,600 got out of tonight's meeting. I applaud all of you. I don't want your job. I'm 1625 02:42:21,920 --> 02:42:28,880 not going to run your job. But I could very well recall. 1626 02:42:26,640 --> 02:42:35,600 Um, you took your legal advice as best you 1627 02:42:31,600 --> 02:42:41,040 could and they've done a great job. I took offense because I'm one of those 1628 02:42:38,640 --> 02:42:45,760 ignorant idiots out here in the public that doesn't know the law. Or so I've 1629 02:42:43,280 --> 02:42:51,120 been informed. um the oath of office that has you take 1630 02:42:49,840 --> 02:42:56,080 says you're going to follow the constitution of the state. And so I was 1631 02:42:54,560 --> 02:43:00,720 very pleased to hear the one commissioner admit that as a 1632 02:42:58,640 --> 02:43:06,880 chiropractor she wasn't an attorney because she certainly made herself sound 1633 02:43:02,880 --> 02:43:14,560 like it. And I kind of got the feeling that it has to be her way or no way at 1634 02:43:10,240 --> 02:43:19,840 all. And um when she's nodding, when someone else is talking and it's we've 1635 02:43:16,640 --> 02:43:23,439 got our radical side and so when she's nodding and the other person is talking 1636 02:43:21,760 --> 02:43:26,399 out of the three who don't seem to get along with the rest of you in the 1637 02:43:24,720 --> 02:43:32,720 sandbox, um it's obvious that they do convene and 1638 02:43:30,240 --> 02:43:38,640 make decisions before the meetings when it's been implied on the reverse. 1639 02:43:35,760 --> 02:43:43,680 Um, I'm sorry, but I see the three people that are sitting to the radical 1640 02:43:40,720 --> 02:43:49,680 right as an obstruction in the role of their oath of office 1641 02:43:47,680 --> 02:43:57,120 within this county and it's what's causing the backlog to happen. 1642 02:43:52,720 --> 02:44:01,840 Um, the courts were not even clear. So, I didn't appreciate the legal having 1643 02:43:59,760 --> 02:44:08,479 their fingers pointed. He's done his job as best as he can. Um, I I wouldn't want 1644 02:44:05,520 --> 02:44:13,760 his job either. And he's willing to step up to the plate and say he's done what 1645 02:44:10,720 --> 02:44:19,840 he feels is the right thing to do. Uh, if he if he isn't going to be willing to 1646 02:44:16,319 --> 02:44:26,560 take that oath and that commitment, then it's malpractice and he certainly 1647 02:44:23,520 --> 02:44:31,760 doesn't want to be nailed with that. So, I'm sorry people, but I got more 1648 02:44:28,399 --> 02:44:35,920 confused after tonight. Maybe a timeline could be put together as to what 1649 02:44:33,439 --> 02:44:40,000 happened and what didn't happen. And better yet, 1650 02:44:37,840 --> 02:44:45,680 I would like to put out forth a settlement. I would like to see Mr. 1651 02:44:42,880 --> 02:44:50,319 Brandt come to this table and I would like to see him wave his 1652 02:44:48,479 --> 02:44:55,680 white flag because that's what you do when you quit 1653 02:44:52,640 --> 02:45:00,720 and say I'm dropping my case against the county and I am willing to vacate my 1654 02:44:59,200 --> 02:45:07,920 seat. Then I want Mr. Beniki to come up here 1655 02:45:03,520 --> 02:45:14,240 and vacate his seat so that district two can move forward on having an election. 1656 02:45:11,439 --> 02:45:20,800 That would close the doors on this whole entire thing. It would save the money 1657 02:45:17,439 --> 02:45:26,479 and it certainly would put some sort of ethical and moral faction to this whole 1658 02:45:24,080 --> 02:45:31,359 thing. uh you guys have had your hands tied and and it it's you can't point 1659 02:45:28,800 --> 02:45:36,000 fingers there. But if you're not going to come together as a group and you're 1660 02:45:33,120 --> 02:45:40,640 going to stand in obstruction of what your legal counsel is telling 1661 02:45:38,880 --> 02:45:45,439 and you're going to make the claim that you know more than your attorney when 1662 02:45:43,120 --> 02:45:49,279 you're not an attorney, it it's a problem. And the oath of 1663 02:45:47,760 --> 02:45:53,279 office says you're going to follow the state constitution. and the attorney 1664 02:45:51,040 --> 02:45:59,680 stood right here and said he was following state law. So, I'm sorry. I 1665 02:45:57,680 --> 02:46:03,359 I'm stupid. I am ignorant. I don't know the law. So, I guess you're going to 1666 02:46:01,439 --> 02:46:08,560 just have to go along with my shooting from the hips. But, uh you know, 1667 02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:13,160 continue doing what you got to do, boys. You just got to keep plucking through 1668 02:46:09,840 --> 02:46:13,160 it. Thanks. 1669 02:46:18,080 --> 02:46:21,680 » And good evening. Thank you for following through with this process. I 1670 02:46:20,560 --> 02:46:25,040 just want to thank you for the transparency. I think the public 1671 02:46:23,200 --> 02:46:29,200 attending today and watching online has really appreciated that. Um we can we 1672 02:46:27,600 --> 02:46:33,520 can follow along, we can learn, we can understand and it just is very 1673 02:46:31,760 --> 02:46:37,479 gratifying and helpful for it to be in the daylight. So, thank you. 1674 02:46:41,965 --> 02:46:48,160 » [clears throat] >> Well, earlier I said something about you 1675 02:46:45,359 --> 02:46:55,520 have a dog in the fight and it sounds like you've decided to 1676 02:46:51,359 --> 02:47:02,160 turn your dog loose. That's okay. I was pleased tonight that this issue 1677 02:46:58,240 --> 02:47:07,279 with respect to district 2 was done in public. 1678 02:47:05,040 --> 02:47:12,160 The lawyer stood up here and gave you alternatives. He explained 1679 02:47:10,080 --> 02:47:18,319 what the his view was of the court of appeals uh decision 1680 02:47:16,319 --> 02:47:23,840 and each and every one of you had an opportunity to respond to the public 1681 02:47:21,680 --> 02:47:30,960 about your opinion. Some of you did, some of you didn't. 1682 02:47:27,680 --> 02:47:34,279 We would have never heard that in a closed session. 1683 02:47:34,960 --> 02:47:44,160 So sometimes closed sessions are not really in the best interest 1684 02:47:41,520 --> 02:47:49,520 of the group. Sometimes clearing the air, even if you 1685 02:47:46,560 --> 02:47:55,200 don't agree, clearing the air and watching the citizens or have the 1686 02:47:52,319 --> 02:47:59,680 citizens watch what you're doing is more important than being in that 1687 02:47:56,880 --> 02:48:03,200 back room and say the same thing, but we never hear it. 1688 02:48:01,760 --> 02:48:09,520 Now, I have to tell you, I've been involved in a lot of close sessions. 1689 02:48:06,640 --> 02:48:14,560 Often, I would say no, we shouldn't do that because whatever you say in close 1690 02:48:11,680 --> 02:48:17,560 session, you should be able to say right here, 1691 02:48:18,160 --> 02:48:25,920 but there are times when it's absolutely necessary to go there. But I think 1692 02:48:22,319 --> 02:48:33,279 tonight, you did the right thing. Back to the lawyers. I just saw Sue put 1693 02:48:29,279 --> 02:48:37,520 stuff up on the board here and one what appear to be several lawyers put in 40 1694 02:48:35,439 --> 02:48:43,359 invoices. Now, none of you can take the time to go 1695 02:48:39,680 --> 02:48:49,680 through 40 in 40 invoices and decide whether or not they're valid and did 1696 02:48:45,439 --> 02:48:56,000 they do the work. You don't have time. So, I don't have an answer for you. And 1697 02:48:52,960 --> 02:49:00,640 I know Henry was was adamant in his issue with respect to whether or not you 1698 02:48:58,960 --> 02:49:04,880 would pay these people or not pay them. I'm not going to get involved. I don't 1699 02:49:02,000 --> 02:49:08,720 have a dog in that. But I see just on the board 1700 02:49:06,640 --> 02:49:12,880 the number of invoices would appear to be from lawyers and you you don't have 1701 02:49:10,479 --> 02:49:17,439 time to look at all that. So I don't know what your system is in 1702 02:49:14,640 --> 02:49:22,560 place to check on that. I don't know. I know when I sat there we never looked at 1703 02:49:19,680 --> 02:49:26,399 them. We kind of just paid them. But if you're going to to start moaning and 1704 02:49:24,800 --> 02:49:29,680 complaining about lawyers bills, then you have to put a system in place to 1705 02:49:28,080 --> 02:49:36,640 analyze them. You have to have a system in place for somebody to look over them. 1706 02:49:34,080 --> 02:49:43,359 And that's not a fun job. I mean, I see the the the used to see the the bills 1707 02:49:39,840 --> 02:49:47,920 from from the law firm. They do a good job in telling you what they did, who 1708 02:49:44,960 --> 02:49:54,640 they said, who they spent time with. They did a great job. Others would just 1709 02:49:51,920 --> 02:49:59,920 simply say it worked, you know, and and send an invoice. I don't I don't know 1710 02:49:56,800 --> 02:50:06,880 how you can fix it. I just don't know. But that every lawyer keeps a calendar. 1711 02:50:03,680 --> 02:50:10,479 Every lawyer keeps a calendar. And maybe that's what you require to be 1712 02:50:08,960 --> 02:50:13,840 delivered with the invoice. I don't know. 1713 02:50:12,640 --> 02:50:17,920 That's a lot of work. A lot of paperwork. They'll charge you for that, 1714 02:50:15,200 --> 02:50:21,920 too. Thank you. Any 1715 02:50:19,840 --> 02:50:24,920 other citizens that wish to address the board? 1716 02:50:26,240 --> 02:50:34,000 » Uh, seeing none, we have no announcements. We'll move into um 1717 02:50:30,319 --> 02:50:40,240 members time. Commissioner Asper, >> I would just like to assure Miss King um 1718 02:50:36,880 --> 02:50:47,200 that we do have an ethics policy. uh when the board did not make one after we 1719 02:50:44,560 --> 02:50:51,439 had this committee and everything put together and we still didn't get one and 1720 02:50:49,520 --> 02:50:57,120 still didn't get one, I put one together and we passed it. Just so you know that 1721 02:50:53,760 --> 02:51:00,880 we do have one. Um and I was kind of, you know, to be called a radical is kind 1722 02:50:59,120 --> 02:51:09,200 of nice. You know, when you're 72, that's not too bad. Uh but anyway, um I 1723 02:51:05,680 --> 02:51:16,640 I do uh have critical thinking skills and uh I just simply want us to follow 1724 02:51:12,720 --> 02:51:22,160 the law and I just simply want us to make sure that our motives are pure and 1725 02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:27,120 I just want to say the truth and then let it go free because it can defend 1726 02:51:24,240 --> 02:51:32,640 itself. >> Mr. Moore, well congratulations 1727 02:51:29,920 --> 02:51:37,120 everyone. You survived. We didn't go into close session and the world didn't 1728 02:51:34,240 --> 02:51:41,120 end. Uh, and much like the former chairman said and some of the 1729 02:51:38,880 --> 02:51:45,359 constituents out here, I agreed with some of their points at public comment 1730 02:51:42,720 --> 02:51:50,319 tonight. Although permissible, it's not always needed to go into close session 1731 02:51:47,520 --> 02:51:54,800 for the sake of transparency and for the sake of understanding and making sure 1732 02:51:52,399 --> 02:51:59,359 that the public understands what's going on. I'm glad that we ended up not going 1733 02:51:57,359 --> 02:52:03,120 into close session for those two items. I think both of those things needed to 1734 02:52:00,880 --> 02:52:06,720 be stated publicly and I I would hope that the majority of this board takes 1735 02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:11,279 heed of that and thinks twice maybe about going into close session about 1736 02:52:08,479 --> 02:52:15,600 every uh controversial or sensitive topic. Just because it's controversial 1737 02:52:12,800 --> 02:52:20,399 or sensitive doesn't necessarily mean um it it can't be discussed openly and 1738 02:52:17,840 --> 02:52:24,800 calmly like it was here tonight. With that being said, I am disappointed that 1739 02:52:22,800 --> 02:52:32,000 my fellow commissioner wouldn't allow me to vote on the the uh two issues 1740 02:52:28,800 --> 02:52:35,279 separately. Uh I've supported it. I've supported Commissioner Leven for over a 1741 02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:40,080 year. I think it's about a year and a half almost, maybe a year on this issue 1742 02:52:37,840 --> 02:52:46,080 of making sure there's no fraud within that department. Um it's no secret that 1743 02:52:43,279 --> 02:52:50,240 he vehemently wants to have a public defender's office and I disagree with 1744 02:52:47,920 --> 02:52:54,240 him. this was a Trojan horse way to be able to on the back of fraud to then 1745 02:52:52,720 --> 02:52:58,560 say, "Well, let's also look at this issue." And it it's just disappointing 1746 02:52:56,880 --> 02:53:02,080 because it's a it's a dirty political trick when you put two separate issues 1747 02:53:00,240 --> 02:53:05,279 on the same vote. You force your fellow commissioner to either vote one way or 1748 02:53:03,920 --> 02:53:09,040 another. So, at a later date, you can say, "Well, see, he voted for that or 1749 02:53:07,279 --> 02:53:12,080 see, he voted against that." We see it done in Washington all the time. We see 1750 02:53:10,479 --> 02:53:15,600 it done in Lancing. I don't think it should be done here at the board of 1751 02:53:13,760 --> 02:53:19,120 commissioners. I would hope that in the future if a commissioner wants to 1752 02:53:17,439 --> 02:53:22,880 separate a vote and say, "Look at I have I agree on this issue. I disagree on 1753 02:53:21,200 --> 02:53:26,240 that issue. Can we separate it?" We should be able to say, "Yeah, let's take 1754 02:53:24,560 --> 02:53:29,920 a second vote." And I'm sure they had the votes for it. It would have passed 1755 02:53:28,080 --> 02:53:35,040 anyway, but but I would hope that I would be allotted that uh that that uh 1756 02:53:33,040 --> 02:53:42,640 grace to be able to vote my conscience on each different separate uh subject 1757 02:53:39,359 --> 02:53:47,279 that that comes up. Um, you know, and then thirdly, I did have 1758 02:53:45,200 --> 02:53:50,399 something personal that I wanted to publicly say 1759 02:53:48,880 --> 02:53:53,600 to Dave Hoffman. I'm going to hold that. We I'll talk to him privately. I'll 1760 02:53:52,319 --> 02:53:55,439 pass. >> Mr. Schwart, 1761 02:53:54,479 --> 02:53:58,319 » I'll pass. >> Mr. Heiserling, 1762 02:53:56,960 --> 02:54:02,240 » I'll pass as well. >> Mr. Leven, Commissioner Huffman, 1763 02:54:00,240 --> 02:54:08,479 » I'm going to pass. >> Mr. a little more. 1764 02:54:05,600 --> 02:54:14,080 » I I really do think that this report from Plant Moran 1765 02:54:10,640 --> 02:54:18,080 uh was very helpful. And if it was helpful to me, then why wouldn't it be 1766 02:54:15,600 --> 02:54:23,840 helpful to those other bodies that make decisions such as whether we should have 1767 02:54:20,479 --> 02:54:29,120 a public defender office or not? So, uh why would we avoid sending that to them? 1768 02:54:27,439 --> 02:54:33,920 Isn't that a misrepresentation of the truth as well? 1769 02:54:31,200 --> 02:54:37,439 uh my opinion uh this is definitely truth and it's definitely something that 1770 02:54:35,680 --> 02:54:42,319 needs to be followed and it's definitely something that should be viewed by all 1771 02:54:39,680 --> 02:54:48,960 parties involved so that we can make great decisions here and have the right 1772 02:54:44,800 --> 02:54:53,680 people in place to help these people do their job. 1773 02:54:51,520 --> 02:54:58,800 And up to this time, we're seeing some people in here that weren't doing their 1774 02:54:56,479 --> 02:55:03,760 job or weren't appropriately doing their job. 1775 02:55:02,080 --> 02:55:09,760 This is going to guide us in the future in my opinion. I'll pass in the rest. 1776 02:55:06,640 --> 02:55:12,760 Mr. Basanic, anything for the board? Mr. Graham? 1777 02:55:12,880 --> 02:55:19,760 » Um, I I'll just make a few comments. I I'm I'm very thankful that uh first of 1778 02:55:17,279 --> 02:55:25,200 all, I'm grateful for the work of uh Phil Goldmith on uh this entire uh uh 1779 02:55:23,120 --> 02:55:29,760 legal challenge that we've been uh faced with over the last year and a half. Uh I 1780 02:55:27,439 --> 02:55:33,359 think he's done outstanding work. Um, and I'm I'm I'm thankful that we're 1781 02:55:31,680 --> 02:55:37,840 going to see it through to the end and that we had the votes to to allow him to 1782 02:55:35,920 --> 02:55:41,200 do his work and if it ends up in the attorney general's office or ends up 1783 02:55:39,359 --> 02:55:46,000 back in the circuit court or eventually the appellet court that we'll get a a 1784 02:55:43,040 --> 02:55:50,960 final decision on uh whether the seat was vacated or not. Um just a couple of 1785 02:55:49,040 --> 02:55:56,720 responses to some comments that uh Commissioner Asper made. um she made 1786 02:55:53,760 --> 02:56:02,240 mention of the fact that uh in the 2024 election um former commissioner Brandt 1787 02:56:00,000 --> 02:56:07,279 uh received 90% of the vote, but what she failed to mention uh was that he 1788 02:56:04,399 --> 02:56:11,520 plead guilty in March. Uh didn't let anybody know until the sentencing in 1789 02:56:09,120 --> 02:56:16,240 September, well past the date where anybody could file if they wanted to run 1790 02:56:13,840 --> 02:56:20,160 against him. And and I and I will say this for Mr. Brand, he was a very 1791 02:56:17,600 --> 02:56:24,880 successful county commissioner. He was in office for several years. And so the 1792 02:56:22,800 --> 02:56:29,200 idea of somebody running against him, especially in his own party, were slim 1793 02:56:26,880 --> 02:56:34,800 to none. And really the same with the with the Democratic side based on the 1794 02:56:31,439 --> 02:56:38,479 demographics of of district uh two. And so to say that he had 90% of the vote is 1795 02:56:36,960 --> 02:56:44,399 a little bit misleading because he was the only name on the ballot. Um, and 1796 02:56:42,479 --> 02:56:49,200 although uh it was pointed out to me tonight that him not informing the 1797 02:56:47,120 --> 02:56:53,760 county board uh that he plead guilty in March and waiting until his sentencing 1798 02:56:50,800 --> 02:56:59,040 in September wasn't anything illegal or caused us uh problems if he remained on 1799 02:56:56,880 --> 02:57:03,600 the board in the interim and voted in certain ways. We we we're safe with 1800 02:57:01,200 --> 02:57:08,880 that. But what it does uh raise is ethical concerns about did he have an 1801 02:57:06,319 --> 02:57:12,800 obligation to report to his colleagues on this board that he had plead guilty 1802 02:57:10,720 --> 02:57:18,240 in March. Did he have a even greater obligation to allow his constituents in 1803 02:57:15,760 --> 02:57:23,200 district two uh know that he had plead guilty and was wait awaiting sentencing? 1804 02:57:20,640 --> 02:57:28,240 Instead uh didn't tell anybody, got on the ballot as as the only candidate and 1805 02:57:25,359 --> 02:57:33,600 won with 90% of the vote. As far as my former uh colleague that 1806 02:57:30,720 --> 02:57:37,920 sat in this seat uh appointing somebody, it wasn't immediately after the 1807 02:57:35,120 --> 02:57:42,640 sentencing um that former commissioner Brandt resigned. And so by the time the 1808 02:57:40,560 --> 02:57:46,560 the resignation was in place, it was a very limited amount of time where an 1809 02:57:44,479 --> 02:57:50,720 appointment would have been made. It was former Chairman Richardville's decision 1810 02:57:48,560 --> 02:57:54,880 not to do that and let the election play out. And I can be corrected if I'm wrong 1811 02:57:52,800 --> 02:57:59,600 on this, but I'm quite sure that after Mr. Brandt won that election. I did not, 1812 02:57:57,520 --> 02:58:06,319 as the new chairman coming in in January, have the legal authority to 1813 02:58:02,880 --> 02:58:10,800 appoint um a replacement for Mr. Brandt while we waited what was going to happen 1814 02:58:08,319 --> 02:58:15,040 with his sentence or waited when for him to get out of federal prison. I didn't 1815 02:58:12,880 --> 02:58:20,000 have that. I didn't have that uh legal authority to appoint somebody. We only 1816 02:58:17,040 --> 02:58:26,399 had a few options which were researched uh by Mr. Goldmith. And so, um, um, what 1817 02:58:23,680 --> 02:58:30,960 I'm what I'm very grateful for tonight is we are going to be able to see this 1818 02:58:27,920 --> 02:58:30,960 through finally.