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Excuse me.

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Call us meeting of the Morristown Township Planning Board, September 3, 2026, to order. Notice

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that this meeting is provided in accordance with the Open Public Meeting Act by one posting a copy

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of the agenda on the bulletin board of town hall, filing a copy of the agenda in the office

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of the Board Secretary of Town Hall, forwarding a copy of the agenda to the Burlington County Times

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and Courier Post, and lastly forwarding a copy of the agenda to each person who has requested

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copies of the regular meeting schedule. All of the above postings, filings, and mailing of

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the agenda have taken place on or before August 24th, 2026. If we all rise now please for a moment

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Silence and solicit the flag I

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pledge with the United States of America

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Paddy are you going to do the roll call?

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Mr. Averant here Mr. Cara Burns present

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Mr. Thomas here Mr. McGuire here Mr. Mauryucci here

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Mr. Maznog, Ms. Petriela, here, Mr. Keating.

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Present.

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Mr. Weizelowski, here.

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Mr. Sparito, here, Mr. Driscoll.

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Here.

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OK, on the agenda, we have meeting minutes,

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but there will be no meeting minutes tonight.

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Next order of business is the adoption of resolutions.

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And this is PB number 2026-21, Brian Pierce, 1027, Haynes Mill Road, block 690-11, proposed minor subdivision of a lot 11, 2.33 acres into two single family residential lots.

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Are there any additions or corrections to this resolution?

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Yes, Mr. Chair, thank you.

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A couple spelling corrections, so I'll start with those names.

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We've got the one page five, paragraph six.

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Pierce will be changed to Pierce, P-E-A-R-C-E, not the way it's spelled.

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In addition, we have a spelling change, the Del Rans engineer, page seven, paragraph 14,

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Ed and we put in his last name, DRM and TOS, we've spelled that properly now as well.

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In addition, we had requested changes from the applicant side and I'm not necessarily

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adverse to them.

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I don't necessarily think they do much, but we're going to throw them in there.

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Paragraph on page three, paragraph 13, it talks about the applicant agreeing to comply

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with all outside agency approvals.

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I'm going to agree to comply with all necessary outside agency approvals.

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The word necessary being added.

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Page 5, paragraph 6, when there was a discussion about Mr. Wigmore who's here talking about

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building a home for himself and also his business partner's family.

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It's referenced about building a house for the parents of his partner and it's going to

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be for his business partner.

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The word business is being added.

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In addition, paragraph 8 mistakenly referred to Brian Peter, but not always a professional

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engineer, but also as a planner.

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He's not a planner, so we've omitted the P.P. and the reference to the word planner.

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With those changes, eligible members here are Carro Burns, Keating, and Driscoll.

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From the eligible members, any questions about those changes or this resolution?

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With no changes, and of those three eligible members, could I get a motion to adopt?

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Second.

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It's a motion by our caraburns, second by Keating.

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Mr. Caraburns?

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Yes.

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Mr. Keating?

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Yes.

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Mr. Driscoll.

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Okay.

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At this time, we'll move on to new business.

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It's a PB number 2026-18, Elizabeth Trucksis,

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of the state of genus R-Truxus, 451 Creek Road, block 80000, lots 3, 4, and 5.

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This is preliminary major subdivision, proposes a 24 residential lot subdivision on 65.47 acres.

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The subdivision is proposed to conform to the R1 zoning district.

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The applicant is not requesting any variances.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair, applicants represented by Bob Barranowski, they've been working diligently with their own team and our team to prepare for this evening, so we thank him and his team for that, and we welcome him here this evening, which keep everyone just reminded everybody to keep your voices up, you're being amplified and recorded, so just party big and bold.

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Thank you. Thank you for the introduction. Thank you, Mr. Relicco. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening to everyone. This is Bob Barronowski speaking. I am an attorney with Highland live in Shapiro in Merlton representing the applicant. The matter before you this evening, if I may just start off with introducing our team and let you know who's here with us tonight and maybe we can get everybody sworn in to start with and then I'd like to give you a brief overview and then get some testimony on the record

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for you and show you the plans.

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I do have, behind me, Ms. Elizabeth Truxis,

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who goes by the name Tegan.

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She is the applicant's representative.

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She is the executive tricks of the estate.

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Have to my left, Mr. Samuel Renaro, R-E-N-A-U-R-O.

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The third, he is a professional engineer

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with SR-3 engineers.

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He will discuss the subdivision plan with the board.

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Mr. Mark A. Roth, also a professional engineer of Bowman Traffic, is with us and just just Roth, ROTH.

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And Mr. Mike Lamanna, L-A-M-A-N-A, he's a certified, certified, forester.

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He did the tree inventory report, and he is also with us this evening.

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So if I might ask everybody that they could be sworn in at this time, and then we'll proceed from there.

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All right, welcome them all. We'll also swear in our board planner Mr. Davis and also Mr. Noel. So everybody that was identified

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Could you please raise your right hand and do you all swear from the testimony give us even be the truth?

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Great. Thank you. Welcome. Okay. Thank you, everybody

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As indicated in the

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Statement of the summary of the application by the chair as indicated on your

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agenda for the evening, this is an application for preliminary major subdivision.

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We're seeking preliminary approval only this evening.

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The property is located at 4.51 Creek Road.

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That is block 8,000, last three, four, and five.

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That is property located in the R1 zoning district.

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It's approximately 64, 65.47 acres.

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There is one existing home at this time on a lot, three.

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and that's proposed to remain.

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The zone requires a one and a half acre minimum lot size.

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So we are proposing to maintain the one home on lot three

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and to create, I'm sorry, it's going to be named as lot 10.

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That's okay, I encourage you to let me know

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if I'm getting it right or wrong.

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Thank you, Tegan for that.

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So that will be to be located on the newly designated lot 10

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and by the way, we also have asked the assessor

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to give the approval for all the proposed lot numbers.

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So that is pending and we also have proposed requests to approve the street names and so forth.

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That's also pending.

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So we are proposing to keep the one home on the lot where it's currently located and

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to create 23 new single family dwelling lots, all of a conforming lot size.

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And those vary from about 65,372 square feet to 324,562 square feet.

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And that Mr. Renaro just take you through the plan in more detail.

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But as mentioned, again, there are no bulk variances associated with this application.

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None requested, none required.

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There are two design waivers that we will be requesting.

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I think Mr. Renaro will describe this.

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Mr. Davis did identify more than two design waivers in his review letter,

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but as Mr. Renaro will tell you, we can modify those requests to eliminate two or

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three of those other two, yeah, two of the other design waiver requests.

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And I think the board is very familiar with this, and

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I'm sure your council can advise you.

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But design waivers are different than variances.

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It's variances require kind of a heightened standard in order for the board to determine

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that relief from your zoning ordinance standards are appropriate.

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The standard you apply in respect to deciding whether a design waiver is appropriate is

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reasonableness.

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Is it reasonable under the circumstances for the design standard to be relaxed?

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And that's what we're requesting with respect to two issues that Mr. Renaro will talk about.

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As you can see from we have the exhibit, it's a colorized rendering of the subdivision plan that's up on the screen right now that Mr.

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Renaro will speak to the plan seeks to preserve as many trees as possible.

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And with the plan that's proposed, we will agree to conform with your ordinance with respect to any tree removal.

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We are going to work with your professionals to address a very robust tree replanting plan.

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Regardless of what happens, we will replace as many trees as possible.

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We understand there will be a responsibility for whatever trees cannot be planted.

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There will be a responsibility to comply with the ordinance as to what that would require for

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any payment and lieu toward the fund.

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As noted by Mr. Relicco, we have met with your professionals, we've workshoped the application, we thank your professionals for their time and input.

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The meeting with us, we have their review letters, we have no issues with addressing all the technical requirements and comments in those letters.

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And if I just may briefly go through the letters we have, and then we'll address any call outs for testimony in those letters.

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and otherwise we can indicate that we can agree to comply with all the comments.

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We do have an ERI review letter from August 7th, 2026.

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That is an engineering letter issued by Mr. Null.

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We have an HGA letter, dated August 26th.

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And that is a planning review letter from Mr. Davis.

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We have a letter review memo from the Department of Public Works.

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That is dated August 18th, 2026, that's for Mr. Don Lloyd.

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And we have a letter review memorandum from the Moore Sound Fire Department.

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That's dated August 19th, 2026, from your Fire Marshal, Mr. Matt or Cine.

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I do also want to point out for the record that our traffic engineer, Mr.

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Mr. Roth did also submit a letter responding to traffic comments that were contained within

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the ERI letter. Mr. Roth's letter was dated September 2nd. Overall, I just also want to mention

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as we move forward into the testimony as a permitted use, the traffic that is generated to be

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generated, anticipated to be generated by the proposed development is something that is

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anticipated by and encompassed by the zoning for the property and this is also along the county road

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and we do have a conditional county approval already at this time and Mr. Renaro will also I think touch on that as he goes through.

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So I'm going to have Mr. Renaro start off with testimony, walk you through the plan.

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Mr. Lamana is available to answer any questions as they may arise with regarding two trees and Mr. Roth

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Dr. Roth also available to answer any traffic questions can walk you through his report, his response to comments as may be needed.

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And with that, I think if I may turn it back over to Mr.

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Renaro and ask him as he starts off to just put his qualifications on the record and

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I'm asking it except his testimony in the field of professional engineering.

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Good evening, my name is Sam Renaro with SR3 Engineers.

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I've been practicing civil engineering for 25 years, and I've testified before many boards, including the Morse Towns Learning Board, and I've testified in Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

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I'm also a licensed planner in New Jersey.

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Okay, and all of your certifications are current and up to date?

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Yes.

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Okay, good stand.

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Thank you.

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With the board, accept Mr. Monaro in the fields of engineering and planning.

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Accept it.

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Thank you.

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Okay, please proceed.

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I'm the Civil Engineer for the project and I wanted to first introduce where we are in

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the world.

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I think probably most of you know, but I just repeat it referring to the applicant's exhibit

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A1.

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This exhibit is simply the overall site plan we've added color to the plan so it's easier

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to see from a distance, so it's the same as your sheet number two in your plan set.

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Is that, I know we got one today.

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Is that dated August 26, 2026? Yes, yes. Okay.

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Property is 65 acres as Mr. Barron asked you pointed out. It is located on Northbound Creek Road. I know the Creek Road kind of goes to an easterly, westerly direction, but the county calls it a North South Road. So I'll call it Northbound Creek Road. It's on 65 acres. There are three existing lots. The main lot is lot number three. There are two lots that are kind of in the middle.

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middle of the Rancookas Creek, the deed for the property does go to the center line of the Rancookas Creek, but obviously that area is environmentally protected.

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The site is in the R1 zone, and there are wetlands on the property we've received approval from the DEP in the form of a letter of interpretation that approves the location of the wetlands as delineated by our wetlands expert.

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So those wetlands that you see on the plan are the same as what was approved by the DEP.

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The application received things for a 24-lot subdivision single-family detached dwellings.

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The existing lot, as Mr. Boundewski pointed out, will remain on lot 10, and that existing

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lot has a driveway that accesses Creek Road, that lot will now access from a proposed

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roadway.

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The application includes two proposed homes that will gain access to Creek Road via a

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driveway. The other 22 lots will gain access to Creek Road via what we've called on our

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plan's road A but it will have an actual name when we proceed. Road A is a cul-de-zac.

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There's also a second road that we've called a court that is a U-shaped road that will connect

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to both sides of road A. That is what provides access for all of the lots in the development.

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This application does not propose any variances.

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The application meets the ordinance requirements for zoning requirements for dimensions, lot area of 1.5 acres, lot width, setbacks, and so forth.

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Our plans show the impervious coverage on the lots.

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However, I think Mr. Davis asked for some additional detail regarding impervious coverage.

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And our plans show limits on impervious coverage that is not more than the maximum

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pervious coverage of 25% in the zoning ordinance.

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Some lots have more flexibility than others, but all of the lots have a minimum allowance

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of the pervious coverage of an additional 6500 square feet.

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For patios, hard-scaping sidewalks, what homeowners would need on their property.

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So it's not just the building footprint in the driveway.

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That way we do give allowances and flexibility for these lots, for a previous coverage.

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Our stormwater system does account for that.

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Now the charge from Ms. Trucksis for this art design was to maximize the preserved wooded

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area on the property that we wanted to save as many trees as possible.

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We want this to be a natural looking development that kind of fits into the topography of the

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neighborhood fits in the topography of the site and fits in with the wooded

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character of the site. So for that reason we have shown some different methods

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to save trees. Two of them are the waiver requests that I will discuss later but

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also our stormwater design is somewhat innovative design where we will be

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having some underground underneath the roadway underground storage. We also will

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will be showing pervious gutters and we will be showing pervious driveways that minimizes

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runoff from these areas. It also addresses water quality, water quantity and recharge.

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The soils here are excellent so recharge is definitely something that was relatively easy

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for us to address.

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Another method we use was trying to arrange the properties in a way

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such that there are stands of trees between lots.

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We did this by having septic systems adjacent near each other with two neighbors.

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And then on the other side, having a stand of trees to remain.

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We also arranged our grading plan to match existing grades as much as possible,

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so that we don't have these large embankments.

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00:19:34,750 --> 00:19:38,130
We tried to avoid large embankments to build the roads and

217
00:19:38,130 --> 00:19:40,570
houses that would disturb more trees.

218
00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:47,210
So with that in mind, you'll see on your plans that we show a simple rectangle for these houses.

219
00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:50,350
And the reason for that is that we do not have a builder chosen.

220
00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:53,490
This evening, we're only here for preliminary approval.

221
00:19:53,670 --> 00:19:54,950
So there isn't a builder on board.

222
00:19:55,370 --> 00:19:59,050
We don't have renderings to show you of what these buildings will look like.

223
00:19:59,570 --> 00:20:04,630
But I can tell you that first of all, it will comply with the maximum building coverage for

224
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:06,210
the lot, which is 15%.

225
00:20:06,210 --> 00:20:12,610
These rectangles that you see here do provide flexibility and they are approximately 9% building coverage

226
00:20:12,610 --> 00:20:19,790
We will provide a table as requested by Mr. Davis on the plans for every single lot showing our exact building coverage

227
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,200
Regarding basements

228
00:20:25,780 --> 00:20:30,460
Mr. Noel asked that we provide some testimony on whether basements are proposed and the answer is yes

229
00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:33,160
We will be proposing basements the soil test

230
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:40,000
we did on the site in several locations at more than five locations show ground water at a

231
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,760
deep elevation. We will provide a table as requested by Mr. Noel on the plans showing that those

232
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,940
basements are feasible.

233
00:20:49,550 --> 00:20:54,630
I talked a little bit about the stormwater system and I just wanted to

234
00:20:54,630 --> 00:21:01,030
clarify that the stormwater system is a good segue into discussion of governance and responsibility

235
00:21:01,030 --> 00:21:01,990
for the summer system.

236
00:21:02,650 --> 00:21:09,550
This application is proposing a homer's association and although the details of homer's

237
00:21:09,550 --> 00:21:14,630
association, homer's association isn't necessarily my area of expertise, I can tell you that

238
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:19,490
the purpose of this homer's association is mainly to maintain this stormwater system.

239
00:21:19,870 --> 00:21:22,930
It's a large system that will need some maintenance.

240
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:28,710
The pervious gutters will require some maintenance and that maintenance responsibility and

241
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:32,270
responsibility for overall system will be the HUA.

242
00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:34,770
There will be no common areas as part of the HUA,

243
00:21:34,910 --> 00:21:39,190
like you might see where there's large areas of land

244
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:40,430
that is owned by the HUA.

245
00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:42,870
We will not be having that situation.

246
00:21:43,410 --> 00:21:45,550
We will, however, be proposing our HUA

247
00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:46,950
mainly for this purpose.

248
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:50,730
With that in mind, the actual road,

249
00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:53,350
we are offering that road for dedication

250
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:55,890
to more town township, excluding maintenance

251
00:21:55,890 --> 00:21:56,910
of the basin, of course.

252
00:21:57,910 --> 00:22:05,510
That also addresses Mr. Nol's request that I provide testimony regarding trash, recycling,

253
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:08,410
snow removal and other municipal services.

254
00:22:09,370 --> 00:22:16,990
Once the development and the road is dedicated, then those services we would request to be provided by Moore's Town Township.

255
00:22:20,150 --> 00:22:23,790
This application did appear before the Burlington County.

256
00:22:24,550 --> 00:22:29,210
On August 12th, the county issued an approval letter that approval did, of course, have conditions with

257
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:32,870
review letter with review letters we will address those letters and I have no

258
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:37,490
problem saying that testifying that we can address those letters without any

259
00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:45,160
problem nothing in those letters posed a feasibility concern for me mailbox

260
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,860
locations with the fact that we would be requesting that the road be dedicated to

261
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:54,220
the town we would anticipate that mailboxes would just be in front of each house

262
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:59,880
however that is the jurisdiction and the final say of the postmaster we defer to

263
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,580
to the postmaster, I understand Mr. Bernaske's office has contacted the postmaster already.

264
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,140
And once we hear from them, we will comply.

265
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,380
I don't think we would have much of a choice anyway.

266
00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:14,980
So we will provide the mailboxes as required by the post office.

267
00:23:17,860 --> 00:23:21,960
Regarding signage, there is no purpose signage proposed as part of this application this evening.

268
00:23:24,170 --> 00:23:30,070
Earlier, I discussed waivers, I stressed that this is a variance free application.

269
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:32,490
However, there are two waivers that we are requesting this evening.

270
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:36,350
Mr. Barron asking briefly touched on the fact that Mr.

271
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:40,730
Davis's letter shows four waiver requests on his letter.

272
00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:48,790
Two of those waivers specifically street tree number of minimum number of species and

273
00:23:49,690 --> 00:23:52,430
street tree maximum number of any one species.

274
00:23:52,430 --> 00:24:03,910
We can comply. We will gladly update our plans to meet that requirement as requested as required by the ordinance and also as requested by Mr. Davis, that will not be a problem.

275
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:10,670
A third item related to street trees is street street tree spacing.

276
00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:18,910
Now, if you see on applicants exhibit a one we do show street trees along most of the proposed road.

277
00:24:18,910 --> 00:24:24,850
You'll also see that the street trees are only provided in areas where it's already

278
00:24:24,850 --> 00:24:25,350
cleared.

279
00:24:25,870 --> 00:24:29,890
So, for example, in front of a home, that's already going to be cleared.

280
00:24:30,170 --> 00:24:33,850
We're showing street trees at 50 foot spacing in those areas.

281
00:24:34,770 --> 00:24:39,850
The ordinance also has a requirement that street trees must be 10 feet behind the right

282
00:24:39,850 --> 00:24:40,170
of way.

283
00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:49,330
So, with that in mind, there are several areas on the property where our proposed edge of

284
00:24:49,330 --> 00:24:56,090
woods, the edge of forest, is near the right of way, the proposed right of way of the

285
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:57,390
road as part of this development.

286
00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:05,950
For that scenario, in our opinion, it would make sense for us to keep existing trees as much

287
00:25:05,950 --> 00:25:10,990
as we can. This goes along with our charge earlier to try to preserve as much forest as

288
00:25:10,990 --> 00:25:15,990
we can, save as many trees as we can. I know that it would still be a variance. I'm

289
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:22,910
not arguing that we do not have an variance, but in my opinion, variance, sorry. I know

290
00:25:22,910 --> 00:25:28,250
that it would still be a waiver, but in our opinion, keeping existing trees would meet the

291
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:32,970
spirit of the ordinance along that right of way in areas. So, referring to the A1,

292
00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:35,370
as

293
00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:38,550
As you enter on the right, there's a stand of trees that are going to be adjacent to

294
00:25:38,550 --> 00:25:39,130
the right of way.

295
00:25:39,690 --> 00:25:44,530
As you turn left onto the court near the back of the property when I say back I mean

296
00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:50,710
east referring to exhibit A1, on your left there's a long stand of trees that would remain

297
00:25:51,330 --> 00:25:55,850
as part of our proposal the way it's drawn on the plans.

298
00:25:56,370 --> 00:26:01,050
If we were to comply with the street tree ordinance specifically and not ask for a partial

299
00:26:01,050 --> 00:26:04,050
waiver, we would just need to clear back 15 feet.

300
00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:08,810
feasible, of course, but we were clear back at least 15 feet behind the right-of-way line,

301
00:26:09,270 --> 00:26:16,210
clear more trees, plant the street trees, and to me that doesn't seem necessarily efficient or desirable.

302
00:26:18,370 --> 00:26:22,150
So Mr. Narrow, just to kind of recap that waiver request.

303
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:33,190
The reason for the waiver request, for not meeting the 50-foot spacing requirement is that we are proposing to actually leave trees in those areas.

304
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:38,690
is so there will already be trees rather than remove trees to plant trees, is that accurate?

305
00:26:38,690 --> 00:26:40,110
Yes, okay, thank you.

306
00:26:40,510 --> 00:26:40,710
You're welcome.

307
00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:46,280
The second waiver we're requesting this evening is sidewalk.

308
00:26:47,380 --> 00:26:52,520
Now, it is not shown on our plans because these plans were prepared in April.

309
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,320
But since that time, we will be proposing sidewalk along Creek Road.

310
00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:03,760
That is part of our, it was part of our application to Burlington County in June.

311
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,220
I believe, June, and we will proposing sidewalk along Creek Road.

312
00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:14,740
This provides connectivity to other developments, perhaps the park to the north.

313
00:27:15,620 --> 00:27:19,200
We think that's good planning to show sidewalk along Creek Road.

314
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:29,460
Regarding the internal areas, I don't believe that sidewalk necessarily is developed as

315
00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:36,220
best served by adding the increased impervious coverage of the sidewalk on the site, and

316
00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:42,220
the increased, possibly the increased clearing that would be necessary to build that sidewalk.

317
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,920
If we have sidewalk along the roadways, that would probably be at a higher elevation.

318
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,880
It would require a little more clearing along those areas.

319
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,540
And it's specifically the areas that I mentioned when I was discussing the street tree waiver.

320
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:08,960
As you turn left on to the court, on the right as you enter from road A, if you're on the court in the front, closer to the front of the property, both sides of that right of way does have trees.

321
00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:20,040
If there's sidewalk on both sides of the street, we believe that that would be increased clearing, not to mention the increased stormwater runoff.

322
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:24,360
We believe it matches the character of other developments in the area as well.

323
00:28:25,540 --> 00:28:45,320
Again, thank you, Mr. Renard, just to recap that one as well, again, the reason the basis for the waiver request from having internal sidewalks in the development is you feel in your opinion where the development is better served by having less impervious coverage and more trees as a result of not providing internal sidewalks.

324
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:45,700
Is that right?

325
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:46,100
Yes.

326
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:46,540
Okay.

327
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:47,460
Thank you for that.

328
00:28:50,330 --> 00:28:55,370
As Mr. Barron asked you pointed out, we did have the pleasure of talking to the Township

329
00:28:55,370 --> 00:28:57,670
professionals and the Township staff about the project.

330
00:28:58,030 --> 00:29:00,210
They provided some additional input.

331
00:29:00,410 --> 00:29:02,750
They provided areas where they need more information.

332
00:29:03,530 --> 00:29:05,050
And we are happy to do that.

333
00:29:05,250 --> 00:29:11,230
We will be providing in our resubmission a point-by-point response to everything in their letters.

334
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:16,430
And I'm very confident that we can meet the requirements in those letters to their satisfaction.

335
00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:19,730
Okay, thank you, Mr. Naro.

336
00:29:19,930 --> 00:29:26,490
I think that kind of caps Mr. Renaro's testimony with regard to the subdivision plan overview and design.

337
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:30,650
If the board, it would be your pleasure, we can proceed.

338
00:29:30,830 --> 00:29:32,850
If you have no questions for Mr. Renaro.

339
00:29:33,150 --> 00:29:34,410
Mr. Chairman, you have a question?

340
00:29:34,910 --> 00:29:35,410
Yes.

341
00:29:35,890 --> 00:29:42,530
I'm sorry if I missed it, but the drawing on the easel there, was that marked A1?

342
00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:53,110
It was pre-marked as Exhibit A1, we haven't called it, that's going to be A1, which is a site plan rendering, and it's dated August 26th, 2026.

343
00:29:53,610 --> 00:29:54,790
Okay. Thank you.

344
00:29:54,970 --> 00:29:55,410
Thank you.

345
00:29:56,010 --> 00:29:57,630
So guys, question about that.

346
00:29:58,210 --> 00:29:59,730
I have one here.

347
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:27,600
It's dated April 16th, 2026, but it looks like the same thing. Can you pull that microphone up a little bit closer? I have one here that was given to us during our meeting on August 25th, and it's dated April 16th, 2026. The one I got, I just got by email this afternoon. I think there was a slight modification in the tree line. I'm not sure I haven't identified it. A very slight modification to the tree line to match the plans.

348
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:42,100
That's the we incorrectly showed the wrong tree line on the previous the previous rendering so the the rendering on the board matches the plans so could somebody could somebody just give a copy of that to our professionals on the way

349
00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:06,140
up and down.

350
00:31:06,340 --> 00:31:07,420
That's the same thing that's up there.

351
00:31:07,940 --> 00:31:16,040
And as you're looking at that exhibit you'll notice the dark green on that exhibit is all existing trees to remain.

352
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:18,660
Okay. I'm good. Okay. Yeah.

353
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:24,470
Okay. I have a couple other points here.

354
00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:30,930
Mr. Nolz, a letter

355
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:39,250
of August 7th, he suggested testimony be taken on certain points, and a lot of them

356
00:31:39,250 --> 00:31:47,190
have already been covered, but maybe at this time we can cover the rest. It said the applicant

357
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:51,850
The applicant should provide testimony regarding whether any phasing of the project is proposed.

358
00:31:52,590 --> 00:31:53,370
No phasing.

359
00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:54,090
No.

360
00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:55,650
Okay.

361
00:31:56,750 --> 00:32:03,430
The applicant should provide testimony if there are to be any common areas of land reserved for public use proposed.

362
00:32:04,190 --> 00:32:04,450
No.

363
00:32:08,890 --> 00:32:11,390
This next one was, I think, half covered.

364
00:32:11,530 --> 00:32:16,190
The applicant should provide testimony regarding how trash and recycling will be removed.

365
00:32:16,190 --> 00:32:20,850
I think that point was covered, but the rest of that says and stored at the site.

366
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:26,850
It will not be stored at the site, it will be, I guess, individual property owners would

367
00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:32,030
probably store their trash in a way that a homeowner would, but then it will be brought

368
00:32:32,030 --> 00:32:34,210
to the street and picked up by municipal services.

369
00:32:36,850 --> 00:32:37,150
Thank you.

370
00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:38,030
You're welcome.

371
00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:42,990
Board members, any questions at this point?

372
00:32:48,970 --> 00:32:52,010
I have a couple of questions about the storm water management.

373
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:56,490
I do probably be the appropriate witness for that.

374
00:32:56,690 --> 00:33:00,490
So I'm taking a look at the storm water and utility plan, sheet 5.

375
00:33:02,750 --> 00:33:09,150
And just trying to understand what I was doing is comparing the construction details on sheet 21.

376
00:33:10,090 --> 00:33:14,370
So I'm looking at a cross section of the road on sheet 5.

377
00:33:14,370 --> 00:33:24,130
And there is the proposed poorest pavement, looking at 21, it refers to a poorest concrete

378
00:33:24,130 --> 00:33:27,870
gutter. So is that what's proposed? There's going to be asphalt in the middle,

379
00:33:28,350 --> 00:33:30,470
and then poorest concrete?

380
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:34,230
There will be a four foot section of poorest pavement along the gutter.

381
00:33:34,370 --> 00:33:34,730
That's correct.

382
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:39,570
You're saying poorest pavement is that poorest concrete, because the detail is poorest concrete.

383
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:39,770
Yes.

384
00:33:40,350 --> 00:33:40,690
Okay.

385
00:33:40,690 --> 00:33:44,870
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I use it as a general word, yes, it's concrete, yeah.

386
00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:51,710
I usually think of pavement as asphalt, but it can be, yeah, concrete, that is correct.

387
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:58,890
And then what's in the roadway, I'm looking again at the construction details on 21.

388
00:33:59,650 --> 00:34:06,790
Can you describe what these basins, how are these constructed?

389
00:34:06,910 --> 00:34:11,110
It looks like massive numbers, like 2300 something?

390
00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:18,550
there is it is a large storm water system and it is expensive and they will be

391
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:22,290
constructed on the ground these they're called storm tank units we would of

392
00:34:22,290 --> 00:34:25,890
course if there's a equivalent we would talk to the contractor but we've

393
00:34:25,890 --> 00:34:30,150
specified storm tank units we've worked with this firm in the past on other

394
00:34:30,150 --> 00:34:33,670
projects and they are traffic graded I think that's one of the things Mr.

395
00:34:33,850 --> 00:34:36,670
Noel asked me to testify about but they are traffic graded for large trucks

396
00:34:36,670 --> 00:34:40,110
although we don't anticipate large trucks here to be conservative they are

397
00:34:40,110 --> 00:34:47,170
traffic-graded to handle large loads. They will be constructed underneath and those in a flat bed, and

398
00:34:47,870 --> 00:34:52,250
those would provide additional stormwater volume almost like a detention basin.

399
00:34:53,370 --> 00:34:55,630
But under the roadway. Under the roadway.

400
00:34:55,750 --> 00:35:01,650
Looking again at sheet five, the very

401
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:06,150
bottom right corner of this,

402
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:10,150
there's something that goes down to the right and

403
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:17,410
And looking at sheet five, it indicates there's a 24-inch pipe in the ground.

404
00:35:17,770 --> 00:35:18,910
So I guess is that overflow?

405
00:35:19,630 --> 00:35:21,850
That is the discharge for the system.

406
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:28,410
So, again, so if there's insufficient capacity inside the system, it would go out through that?

407
00:35:28,510 --> 00:35:33,330
No, no, during all storms, there will be some discharge at this point.

408
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:38,010
Now, we do show infiltration on the site that meets the requirements for infiltration.

409
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:43,650
And it's only on one or two, I'm sorry, it's two of the five systems will have infiltration

410
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:44,030
component.

411
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:46,410
I mentioned earlier that the soils are excellent here.

412
00:35:46,590 --> 00:35:47,890
So we had no problem meeting that.

413
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:52,730
But the other ones are really just detention basins to handle peak flows.

414
00:35:53,370 --> 00:35:56,670
So those detention basins will have some flow even during small storms.

415
00:35:57,690 --> 00:36:00,250
So this, that pipe you called it outfall?

416
00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:00,850
Yes.

417
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:04,910
Is there going to be an easement on that?

418
00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:06,170
Who's responsible for that?

419
00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:08,410
Is there, I'm sorry, that was a-

420
00:36:08,410 --> 00:36:09,690
He's been shown and that he's been,

421
00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:10,990
will be the responsibility of H.A.

422
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:15,590
Okay, so it's an easement on the property in favor of the H.O.A.,

423
00:36:15,590 --> 00:36:18,490
so the H.O.A. can perform any necessary maintenance on that.

424
00:36:18,730 --> 00:36:19,310
Exactly right.

425
00:36:19,650 --> 00:36:21,850
Okay, I didn't see that reflected here,

426
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:23,430
but it might be on one of the other sheets.

427
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:25,950
I'll clarify that on the subdivision plan if it's not already on there.

428
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:33,910
Okay, Mr. Everett, we would also make sure to submit all of the H.O.A.

429
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:39,170
a formation paperwork and the declaration of covenants and restrictions to your attorney

430
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:44,170
to have that reviewed and approved so that it could be recorded and that would run with

431
00:36:44,170 --> 00:36:46,030
the land in the title of all the properties.

432
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:59,330
In terms of the maintenance, what is involved with the maintenance of those units, the storm

433
00:37:00,150 --> 00:37:00,430
tank?

434
00:37:01,230 --> 00:37:08,330
There is a, operations and maintenance manual in our, in our stormer report, and that

435
00:37:08,330 --> 00:37:14,590
requires they jet, you can jet out those systems using a back truck, using, they can,

436
00:37:14,690 --> 00:37:19,790
they jet out those systems, and we would have to contract when I say we, the HOA, would

437
00:37:19,790 --> 00:37:22,170
have to contract with a service that provides that.

438
00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:25,890
So it is listed in detail in our stormer report.

439
00:37:25,890 --> 00:37:30,810
So, we will also include that in any documents that the HOA would have.

440
00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:40,750
And again, just to add to that as well, in paragraph 18 under the general comments of Mr.

441
00:37:40,910 --> 00:37:46,830
Noles letter, he is recommending that the applicant should provide a point of sale at this closure

442
00:37:46,830 --> 00:37:52,790
to inform the potential purchasers of their obligations under the proposed HOA.

443
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:59,450
Okay we would certainly agree to that condition and we agreed during our meeting with the

444
00:37:59,450 --> 00:38:05,050
boards professionals to include some other terms and conditions as well in the, in the

445
00:38:05,050 --> 00:38:10,530
point of sale disclosure and we would again provide that to your council to be reviewed

446
00:38:10,530 --> 00:38:11,930
and approved prior to proceeding.

447
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:15,020
Bill RC.

448
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:15,460
Thank you.

449
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:24,540
I had a question about trees and when I reviewed some of the documents this afternoon

450
00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:29,160
I don't remember the numbers, but can you review how many trees are coming down?

451
00:38:29,740 --> 00:38:31,160
How many trees are being replaced?

452
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,680
I remember the percentage seemed very low in what was being replaced if I'm correct.

453
00:38:37,540 --> 00:38:38,940
So can you go over that a little bit?

454
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:39,320
Sure.

455
00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:40,760
Yeah.

456
00:38:41,020 --> 00:38:44,840
And while Mr. and I was looking for that, I just want to advise the board too.

457
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,880
We are really committed to working with Mr. Davis, we've had this discussion to increase

458
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:56,840
That number of tree replacement on site as much as possible since this is a preliminary plan

459
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,900
It's you've got some generic features to it, but we're certainly

460
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,920
amenable to a more robust

461
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,620
Replanting plan to get as much as possible on site for any trees that are taken clear

462
00:39:07,620 --> 00:39:10,460
So mr. Rinar you have the information. I do

463
00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:15,700
Approximately 19 acres of the 49 acres of

464
00:39:15,700 --> 00:39:20,340
Wooded area on the site will be cleared as part of the construction

465
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,440
There's 660 trees, I'm sorry,

466
00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:32,580
about 900 trees that will be removed in those 19 acres.

467
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:40,640
That results in a replacement tree requirement of 1,203 trees based on the calculation the

468
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,820
multipliers and the ordinance.

469
00:39:43,070 --> 00:39:48,000
Our current plan only shows 7-1 trees to be replaced, but I think we can be more aggressive

470
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,720
of in a few areas after talking to Mr. Lamana about how we can do that.

471
00:39:53,220 --> 00:40:00,100
One example would be the existing driveway that serves the existing home on proposed

472
00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:00,820
lot 10.

473
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:07,880
I think Mr. Lamana has indicated that we can add some infield trees that are shade, you

474
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,260
know, work well and shade again, I'm not a landscape architect but shade tolerant.

475
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:19,220
We also have some other areas where we can add some existing trees, I'm sorry, some proposed trees on the site.

476
00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:27,440
In addition, there may be some other areas where we can be more aggressive in saving some more trees and reducing that 1203 number.

477
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:38,840
So as we talked to Mr. Davis and Mr. Nol in our design, I agree with you that it was a low percentage and I think we can increase that number as far as what's actually replaced on site.

478
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:55,920
Part of the problem, the reason for the low percentage you see here, is that I didn't think it made sense to clear more area to have trees planted, double rows of trees planted in the way our attitude was.

479
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:03,780
Let's save as many trees as we can, but still give the homeowner a yard, let's still give an area for us to build our road.

480
00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:08,620
And then save trees right up to that so that and then we because there is you know

481
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:11,540
There's a world where you can clear more trees and add double rows of our blue light

482
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:14,780
You're something we didn't think that was necessarily our best path

483
00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:19,180
So the reason you see a low number is because the entire site is the entire

484
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:25,180
Development area of the site is wooded right so there wasn't an opportunity like you know in this field here

485
00:41:25,180 --> 00:41:27,980
Let's plant some trees. We didn't really have that advantage

486
00:41:27,980 --> 00:41:33,500
Okay, and then one other thing you just mentioned homeowners are there going to be any restrictions on homeowners

487
00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:37,740
there's taking further trees down once they own their individual lot.

488
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:43,960
The Township Board and it still applies to the homeowner so if they apply for something

489
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,080
like that, that would have to go through the code official if they're applying to do that.

490
00:41:49,540 --> 00:41:50,080
All right.

491
00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:50,580
Thank you.

492
00:41:52,740 --> 00:41:53,900
Oh, one last comment.

493
00:41:54,180 --> 00:41:56,320
It might be good to get an estimate for that jetting.

494
00:41:56,540 --> 00:41:58,320
Oh, Mr. Dristle, can you pull that microphone up closer?

495
00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,280
Thank you.

496
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,160
It might be good to get an estimate for jetting those pipes for the future homeowner's so

497
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,080
So they had an idea of the cost.

498
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:05,420
I agree.

499
00:42:05,580 --> 00:42:06,160
We can provide that.

500
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,860
We are doing that.

501
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,360
Yeah, thank you.

502
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:12,260
And good question.

503
00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:13,540
She had my question on trees.

504
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,660
The other question I had on the design

505
00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:16,780
way were for sidewalks.

506
00:42:16,860 --> 00:42:18,680
I mean, I guess I'm trying to understand

507
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,100
why you wouldn't have a sidewalk internal to the development.

508
00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:25,360
I mean, is it just like how wide is the street?

509
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,320
Do we expect there to be some street parking as well,

510
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:29,160
or not?

511
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,520
It just seems like maybe sidewalk on the internal loop

512
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,540
to have internal circulation or something like that on one side.

513
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,640
It just seems like no sidewalks.

514
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,860
I'm trying to understand why.

515
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:41,380
You said you don't like it.

516
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:47,600
But I like, what's the reason why we should have sidewalks?

517
00:42:48,340 --> 00:42:50,420
The road is 20 feet wide.

518
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,540
I think a brief discussion about parking

519
00:42:54,540 --> 00:42:55,880
since you brought it up is in order.

520
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,280
I probably should have had this in my initial testimony.

521
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:05,680
The project does comply with RSI's requirements from a very parking because there will

522
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,760
be a two-car garage for each lot.

523
00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:12,360
There's also a 20-foot-wide area in front of those lots for parking.

524
00:43:12,580 --> 00:43:15,860
RSI's allows you to count that as 3.5 parking spaces.

525
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,720
I'm not sure why it's a fraction, but that's the way it's written.

526
00:43:19,220 --> 00:43:23,300
That does comply with RSI's, so no additional parking is needed.

527
00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:30,000
However, our plans show a 28-foot wide road, a 28-foot wide road does provide flexibility

528
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:32,780
to have parking on one side of the street.

529
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,040
That would be for if someone had a party and you had a line of cars, they won't just

530
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,700
have to park in the driveway.

531
00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:46,080
So to answer your question further about, specifically about sidewalks, we believe that the

532
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:53,200
road is serviceable for someone walking their dog, someone who's doing those kind of activities

533
00:43:53,200 --> 00:44:00,720
But as far as on site, we didn't like the trade off of the sidewalk versus removing more trees and the additional storm or

534
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:05,420
management load, the additional runoff. That's the reason that we're proposing the waiver.

535
00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:13,640
We're not can't you can't pick you up. I can't pick you up right now. I mean eventually I'll defer to you, but

536
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:25,780
Can I introduce Ms. Trux's? She's been sworn in to give well one further comment as to the sidewalk waiver. Thank you.

537
00:44:27,940 --> 00:44:32,700
I just wanted to say that we've been there for what, 40 years or something, so I've seen

538
00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:38,360
kind of the developments grow out of the farmland or the trees or whatever that are nearby.

539
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:47,680
And I think all of the developments that have happened on that side of Creek Road do not have sidewalks.

540
00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:55,900
They are very natural, they're not like the ones that are closer into town where you

541
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:59,840
I've cleared out everything and then you just have shade trees that it really is a

542
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,040
We wanted to be consistent with that entire area, which is, you know, towards Creek Road,

543
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:11,100
Rencoca's, we wanted it to be. So it's consistent, like, with Cove Road, with

544
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:17,040
Cove, and with Kendall's run, and with Miller's court, like, none of them have sidewalks.

545
00:45:17,100 --> 00:45:20,740
And it says- And it says- Now that I drove around, and I look to see kind of what is the feel

546
00:45:20,740 --> 00:45:24,600
of what, what is that like, and we want to be consistent with that.

547
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,880
And it's testimony of 20 feet wide.

548
00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:30,620
I guess you're saying that you could have traffic circulation,

549
00:45:30,780 --> 00:45:31,920
long as it's not a park car, right?

550
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,220
And there's usually not too many park cars

551
00:45:34,220 --> 00:45:36,220
that you could have two-way circulation

552
00:45:36,220 --> 00:45:40,160
and someone walking the dog with a 20 foot.

553
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:42,300
That's the design that you're proposing.

554
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:42,880
Yes.

555
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:43,400
Okay.

556
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,100
And I also, you know, because I have kids

557
00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:49,060
and, you know, we would go over to Kendall's run

558
00:45:49,060 --> 00:45:52,860
and walk down Kendall's run with my little kids.

559
00:45:52,860 --> 00:45:58,000
And so we're like, okay, this is not, I don't feel unsafe in an environment like this.

560
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,500
So I felt like that would be a good way to go.

561
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:06,720
Okay, and I appreciate I was like hearing from the applicant more than the professionals.

562
00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:08,460
Thank you.

563
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,080
No mistake.

564
00:46:10,020 --> 00:46:12,300
Could I make a comment on that?

565
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:19,220
So in our letter of comment number 34, 35 talks about the roadway width parking,

566
00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:21,700
that right away and the sidewalk.

567
00:46:21,700 --> 00:46:25,520
So residential site improvement standards require sidewalk on one side.

568
00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:29,840
And I appreciate the desire to save the trees.

569
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:36,660
But if you look at this plan, if you have sidewalk on one side, I think all the trees in that area are already gone.

570
00:46:37,860 --> 00:46:46,260
So, and you're point about somebody parked and then you only have 20 feet left to 10 foot aisles and

571
00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:48,820
car coming both ways, there's no room.

572
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,100
So, and I understand maybe the other developments don't have that.

573
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:55,080
I'm not sure when they were approved.

574
00:46:55,080 --> 00:47:01,100
It may have been pre-RSIS, but I recommend that we have sidewalk on the one side.

575
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,860
And just to clarify, if you, maybe if you could tell us, Chris, you said that the one side

576
00:47:05,860 --> 00:47:09,660
wouldn't, in factories, maybe describe where you would propose sidewalk?

577
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:15,700
I think the internal loop on the inside of the internal loop and from creek road to that

578
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:16,000
point.

579
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:22,440
I don't think we need sidewalks, a sidewalk on one side at the cul-de-sac, that's not necessary,

580
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:27,240
but then an internal loop coming from creek-side, from creek-road rather, and then internal.

581
00:47:28,380 --> 00:47:29,320
I think that makes sense.

582
00:47:30,140 --> 00:47:36,300
Okay, no, I just want to add to that if I can, I'm totally in agreement, understanding that

583
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:40,680
the existing developments don't have sidewalk is not justification to have a lack of public

584
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:42,040
safety in a development.

585
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,880
and I think you've heard Chris's with testimony

586
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,520
about the right of way as far as added impervious coverage

587
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:49,620
and tree clearing.

588
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,220
I understand that's an aspect of it,

589
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:53,420
but are you outweighing that over public safety

590
00:47:53,420 --> 00:47:54,140
for pedestrians?

591
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,700
It's, to me, the public safety aspect of the sidewalks

592
00:47:58,700 --> 00:47:59,260
is more important.

593
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,500
Can I make a comment on sidewalks while we're here

594
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:04,620
and then I'll go back?

595
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,960
We have 65 acres out there.

596
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:09,920
I find it hard to believe that we cannot fit sidewalks

597
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,400
on both sides of the street when you have 65 acres.

598
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:15,460
Number one, number two, if you look up and down that road,

599
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,820
while water's edge, rich view, road, and the southern court

600
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,840
are in Delran, they were recently built in the 2000s.

601
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:25,840
They have sidewalks, they're right to the north.

602
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:28,180
Cove road and candles run don't,

603
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,360
but they were built in the 80s in the early 90s.

604
00:48:30,780 --> 00:48:32,220
And then across the Creek and Laurel Creek,

605
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,580
you have late 1990s and they have sidewalks.

606
00:48:36,580 --> 00:48:45,140
So I'm not sure exactly when this RSIS was written either, but clearly the movement is towards sidewalks in developments.

607
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:47,520
So I'm not exactly sure why.

608
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:53,940
Earlier you mentioned that you wanted to increase, you didn't want to have sidewalks because you wanted to increase in pervious coverage.

609
00:48:54,100 --> 00:48:57,280
Well, that's the case, make the sidewalks pervious.

610
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,340
I'm sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you.

611
00:48:59,460 --> 00:49:00,620
Not increase in pervious.

612
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,360
You did not want to increase the pervious, okay.

613
00:49:02,620 --> 00:49:03,980
But make the sidewalks in pervious.

614
00:49:03,980 --> 00:49:11,380
And since the RSI standard does reference the one side requirement that would require an RSI

615
00:49:11,380 --> 00:49:16,580
exception if we were going to pursue that so we would agree to comply with the RSI requirement

616
00:49:16,580 --> 00:49:21,540
to have the sidewalk on one side in the area that's already sort of being cleared.

617
00:49:24,020 --> 00:49:28,740
I mean that's from a creek road to the internal loop and then around the internal loop,

618
00:49:28,740 --> 00:49:29,300
Mr. Null.

619
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:40,970
Yes, excluding the cul-de-sac, which only serves one house.

620
00:49:42,370 --> 00:49:45,470
And we'll do in the same side as the parking. Where are we sure the parking?

621
00:49:46,190 --> 00:49:50,210
Yes, yeah, that's fine. I think that's why. We would agree with that.

622
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:02,100
Continuing on with not necessarily sidewalks, but I think in that same point was about parking.

623
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,920
Are you agreeing to no parking on one side? Was that a recommendation as well?

624
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:20,980
Yes, that's for RSI S. Okay, so are you we agree on the question about parking on one side just for clarification

625
00:50:20,980 --> 00:50:26,340
How is that noted is that street signs on on the coin on the side of the street? It would be street signs

626
00:50:27,220 --> 00:50:32,380
You know approximately how far out there spaced on a property like this every few hundred feet

627
00:50:32,380 --> 00:50:38,760
I would imagine you have an ordinance standard for the signage. There's a standard for that so they have to meet the standard

628
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,040
I don't know exactly what it is, but they'll meet the standard

629
00:50:47,290 --> 00:50:53,030
I have questions, but I don't know if it's for an hour later, but I don't know who else is talking.

630
00:50:53,590 --> 00:50:56,330
They're going to have some additional witnesses.

631
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:58,510
Are you putting additional witnesses on or are you finished?

632
00:50:58,630 --> 00:51:00,190
I know you have witnesses here to answer questions.

633
00:51:00,210 --> 00:51:00,890
You have your traffic.

634
00:51:01,370 --> 00:51:04,270
In order to answer traffic, you have your arborist or ask trees.

635
00:51:04,670 --> 00:51:04,810
Right.

636
00:51:05,150 --> 00:51:13,890
Since the traffic is, you know, we're proposing a conforming number of homes on conforming.

637
00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:18,490
forming lots, I mean, the traffic is really basically consistent with the nature of the

638
00:51:18,490 --> 00:51:19,050
permitted use.

639
00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:23,930
But, and there were comments in Mr. Noles' letter with respect to traffic and we've provided

640
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:25,270
a written response.

641
00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:28,890
Perhaps if you'd like to hear from your professional, they have any questions for you to

642
00:51:28,890 --> 00:51:29,130
transfer.

643
00:51:29,590 --> 00:51:33,730
If you're completed, your case in chief, then I'll defer to the board chair to the additional

644
00:51:33,730 --> 00:51:36,870
questions that wanted to be asked now or whether you wanted to wait until our professional.

645
00:51:37,070 --> 00:51:38,750
So have you finished your case in chief at this point?

646
00:51:38,830 --> 00:51:42,290
Understanding you have the ability to call rebuttal witnesses or supplement the records?

647
00:51:42,510 --> 00:51:47,450
Okay. Before we do our professionals, let Lisa finish with our questions.

648
00:51:47,790 --> 00:51:47,830
Yes.

649
00:51:47,970 --> 00:51:52,010
Okay. All right, so we were talking about trees earlier.

650
00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:55,710
So according to the numbers here, and I know we've talked about changing them a little

651
00:51:55,710 --> 00:52:01,630
bit, there are going to be 1200 trees coming down and 71 replace.

652
00:52:01,830 --> 00:52:02,890
So that's less than-

653
00:52:02,890 --> 00:52:04,010
I need a five minute recess.

654
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:05,050
Oh.

655
00:52:06,050 --> 00:52:06,550
Sorry.

656
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:06,950
Okay.

657
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:08,390
Okay.

658
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:13,130
So according to the HGA report, and maybe the numbers have changed since this number came out,

659
00:52:14,830 --> 00:52:19,930
we had to put in, I guess what, the project requires a total of 1,200 compensatory trees

660
00:52:19,930 --> 00:52:25,430
after removing 19 acres, but you're only putting in 71 compensatory trees.

661
00:52:25,550 --> 00:52:27,190
So that's less than 10%.

662
00:52:27,930 --> 00:52:32,430
So I know you've talked about making different changes and so forth and so on.

663
00:52:32,430 --> 00:52:33,270
And so what is that?

664
00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:35,310
I mean, that's probably not even,

665
00:52:35,530 --> 00:52:38,390
what is it, seven percent, six percent?

666
00:52:38,970 --> 00:52:41,070
So what are we now coming up to?

667
00:52:41,170 --> 00:52:44,790
That is a staggeringly low amount of trees.

668
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:47,090
I mean, we talk about wanting to keep this a natural area,

669
00:52:47,710 --> 00:52:49,310
wanting to preserve open space

670
00:52:49,310 --> 00:52:52,550
yet you're leaving less than 10 percent.

671
00:52:53,010 --> 00:52:56,110
Okay, I would have caught staggeringly low.

672
00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:57,490
The reason I said that is because

673
00:52:57,490 --> 00:53:00,030
in order to plant replacement trees on the site,

674
00:53:00,030 --> 00:53:04,490
we would have to take down existing trees to do so because the entire site is

675
00:53:04,490 --> 00:53:09,550
wooded with the exception of some of the driveway and some areas in front. In those areas we have

676
00:53:09,550 --> 00:53:13,690
taken advantage of any tree replacements as we can. I mentioned earlier that we're going to be more

677
00:53:13,690 --> 00:53:19,010
aggressive to bring up that number but the reason it's so low is because there's no place there's no

678
00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:25,510
open fields to plant these trees. We would we would actually prefer to plant trees on say and we are

679
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:32,450
going to plant more but the reason it's staggeringly low is because there's not a place to put these

680
00:53:32,450 --> 00:53:38,750
trees and our focus was on saving as many trees as we can. You can see on the plant the dark green

681
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:43,390
area that we've tried to do as much as we can to save these trees but there wasn't a place to put

682
00:53:43,390 --> 00:53:48,230
them and so we didn't want to sacrifice removing more trees to plant replacements. That's the reason.

683
00:53:48,910 --> 00:53:54,550
So we'll work with Mr. Davis to add more replacement trees. I think it's a it's a fair comment by you

684
00:53:54,550 --> 00:53:56,950
that we will add more existing trees,

685
00:53:57,350 --> 00:54:00,150
but that's limited by how much room we have to do it

686
00:54:00,150 --> 00:54:01,210
without taking down existing.

687
00:54:01,650 --> 00:54:02,850
Well, so why do you have to take down

688
00:54:02,850 --> 00:54:05,010
so many existing trees on the home lots?

689
00:54:05,150 --> 00:54:07,070
Why I'm not asking to take them down and replace them?

690
00:54:07,150 --> 00:54:08,570
Why not just leave them there in the first place,

691
00:54:08,570 --> 00:54:10,510
just carve out what you need to build your house?

692
00:54:10,850 --> 00:54:11,350
Why are you...

693
00:54:11,350 --> 00:54:13,530
We've shown what we need to build the house.

694
00:54:13,650 --> 00:54:14,930
We have to be able to get no driveway,

695
00:54:15,130 --> 00:54:16,890
we have to be able to get contractors

696
00:54:16,890 --> 00:54:17,710
around the building.

697
00:54:18,050 --> 00:54:19,010
They have to have a little room

698
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:20,090
if they want to build a patio.

699
00:54:21,050 --> 00:54:22,510
So we've shown a little bit,

700
00:54:22,510 --> 00:54:25,450
that we can be more aggressive in some areas where we can,

701
00:54:25,810 --> 00:54:27,590
but we've shown what we think is the bare minimum.

702
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,780
Yeah, we're still not gonna get that number up too much higher

703
00:54:37,780 --> 00:54:40,680
is what I suppose you know, add wanted a more concrete number,

704
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,140
but I'm kind of skeptical about how much number

705
00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:44,840
that high that number can come up.

706
00:54:46,220 --> 00:54:49,060
Let's talk about the types of trees that you're using.

707
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,100
We have red naples and European horned beams.

708
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,620
Why are you not repl- why are you not planting

709
00:54:54,620 --> 00:54:56,260
native trees on them for property?

710
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:58,880
Sorry, I couldn't hear that.

711
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,500
Oh, sorry. You're talking about some of the trees.

712
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,720
I don't see the list on them in the notation.

713
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,740
So, but in some of the documentation here,

714
00:55:08,060 --> 00:55:09,840
you're referencing red maple trees

715
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,440
and European horned beams.

716
00:55:11,860 --> 00:55:13,780
Why are you not using native trees

717
00:55:13,780 --> 00:55:16,640
or species on this property when you're replacing them?

718
00:55:17,060 --> 00:55:18,860
One of the comments Mr. Davis had was

719
00:55:18,860 --> 00:55:20,460
to add more diversity to our trees.

720
00:55:20,860 --> 00:55:22,240
And we've already said we will do that.

721
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:27,800
So I agree with you we will we will revise these plans to add more diversity of trees and use native species

722
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,660
I think that's fine. I think it's a fair comment and it's no longer a requested design waiver

723
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,060
No longer requested design

724
00:55:36,060 --> 00:55:41,260
So that comment on page six of seven reference to those trees. That's no longer a requested waiver

725
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,820
But I'm not an expert on trees read made by fault was native but I will check with my team

726
00:55:46,820 --> 00:55:51,220
And we only want to plant native trees. I agree with you on that if it's not I apologize

727
00:55:51,220 --> 00:55:52,840
guys we will be able to make that revision.

728
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,360
That's an excellent point by you.

729
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,020
Okay, I'm sorry.

730
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,700
I'm sorry, there is a certified forest

731
00:56:00,700 --> 00:56:01,560
just sitting behind me.

732
00:56:01,980 --> 00:56:04,180
He can speak to that, but he would really,

733
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:06,300
I think he's indicated he would pretty much echo.

734
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,180
Mr. Renaro said we will certainly look to utilize

735
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,040
the species of preference,

736
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:15,660
NATO species, work at Mr. Davis in that regard.

737
00:56:16,420 --> 00:56:17,440
I've written maples at my house,

738
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,300
I put them up, they're pretty quick growing

739
00:56:19,300 --> 00:56:24,440
and they're pretty robust, but we'll use the trees that are most suitable for the site.

740
00:56:24,860 --> 00:56:30,800
Okay. In the stormwater manual, was there a part from maintenance? I'm not sure that

741
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,980
I saw a part that talked about how to maintain the systems. Was it in there? I think I also

742
00:56:35,980 --> 00:56:40,840
saw a comment in one of your reports that it was missing. I'm not sure.

743
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:47,480
We do have the operations manual. If we haven't provided the Mr. Noel, we will provide that

744
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,820
and that's going to be part of the stone report and part of the homeowner's association documents.

745
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:59,140
Okay. All right. So, okay. So then the homeowner's association, okay.

746
00:57:02,260 --> 00:57:03,500
So the homeowner's association

747
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:11,320
is going to be mainly responsible for maintaining these stormwater systems. Great. But my concern

748
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,240
with homeowner's associations maintaining them is that homeowner's associations might not

749
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,960
not maintain them as well as they should be maintained and then the township has to come

750
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,580
in and take over how is how is how are you handle that?

751
00:57:24,940 --> 00:57:28,840
I'll tell you exactly how that's handled and that's handled with every you know based

752
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:29,440
on maintenance.

753
00:57:30,020 --> 00:57:34,660
Deed notice we have to record down to the DEP roles and that is the township will always

754
00:57:34,660 --> 00:57:37,160
have the right but not the obligation to do the maintenance.

755
00:57:37,660 --> 00:57:42,060
If the township has to step in and do the work the township will be granted the right to

756
00:57:42,060 --> 00:57:47,480
assess the cost against the HOA and collect it in the same manner as it would

757
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:52,500
with taxes or improvements. Alright so that's still involving my township and

758
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:58,060
fixing a problem that the HOA didn't manage properly. This is a practice that

759
00:57:58,060 --> 00:58:05,720
is implemented uniformly in every town so that's what would happen if it was a

760
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,840
big bait. That's what would happen if it was a basin. That's what would happen if

761
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:15,620
These were underground the story just saying why it's my concern understood right so then we look at the roads

762
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:18,040
The um the streets. They're gonna be porous as well

763
00:58:18,660 --> 00:58:24,360
Just the guys could I can I just ask for I hate to interrupt this petriola. I apologize

764
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:29,980
Could I just ask for a brief five-minute break? Sure, okay, and nobody should talk to each other about the application

765
00:58:29,980 --> 00:58:36,180
Don't talk to me already during research the recess of the board members. Don't deliberate just quick five-minute break

766
00:58:36,180 --> 00:58:36,940
Thank you.

767
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:37,920
Thank you.

768
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:06,850
I thought I saw it. I thought I saw it. Sorry.

769
01:00:54,070 --> 01:00:59,530
Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it, and Ms. Petrio, I apologize for the interruption.

770
01:00:59,810 --> 01:01:04,170
So we'll go back on the record. None of the board members have conferred with one another

771
01:01:04,170 --> 01:01:06,630
about the application. There's been no deliberation off the record.

772
01:01:07,150 --> 01:01:12,310
Yeah, just another couple of questions. So I'm glad to hear that those roads are not pervious

773
01:01:12,930 --> 01:01:16,570
because I would not have liked the town having to manage the maintenance of those roads

774
01:01:16,570 --> 01:01:21,850
going forward so that's a good thing. Okay one other question about stormwater. You have these

775
01:01:21,850 --> 01:01:29,150
underground basins but you're in a tidal flood area. You have water table possible issues. There's no

776
01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:35,310
everything's okay there. There's not going to be any conflicts with the system clashing with

777
01:01:35,310 --> 01:01:41,570
those water featured chairs. That's a good question. We had to do test two in each basin in each

778
01:01:41,570 --> 01:01:47,730
base in area and the water table was very deep. Surprisingly, to be honest, so these

779
01:01:48,290 --> 01:01:53,650
will work very well and the rule in the DEP is yet to be two feet above the bottom of

780
01:01:53,650 --> 01:01:57,010
your base and has to be two feet above seasonal high water and we're well above that.

781
01:01:57,110 --> 01:02:05,150
Okay, that's good to hear. Okay, I think those were, yeah, that was my questions. Thank you.

782
01:02:05,150 --> 01:02:06,390
Thank you.

783
01:02:07,390 --> 01:02:08,770
Okay, board members, we're all good.

784
01:02:09,830 --> 01:02:10,650
Any more questions?

785
01:02:11,030 --> 01:02:11,450
At this point?

786
01:02:14,610 --> 01:02:14,970
Okay.

787
01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:17,490
I want to call your next witness.

788
01:02:17,970 --> 01:02:19,410
He's done with his case in chief.

789
01:02:19,610 --> 01:02:20,890
I think at this time he's good.

790
01:02:20,970 --> 01:02:22,610
He's reserved the right to call Revital Witnesses.

791
01:02:22,690 --> 01:02:23,290
He has them there.

792
01:02:23,830 --> 01:02:27,670
And I think at this time Mr. Chis, we have a good time to go to our board professionals on

793
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:28,050
their matters.

794
01:02:28,450 --> 01:02:29,290
Sounds like a good idea.

795
01:02:29,490 --> 01:02:29,690
All right.

796
01:02:29,870 --> 01:02:30,290
Sounds good.

797
01:02:31,130 --> 01:02:32,030
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

798
01:02:32,910 --> 01:02:40,710
As we heard, the applicant provided testimony regarding related to my August 2026, 2026 review

799
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:45,370
letter. All the comments have been addressed. Obviously, we've discussed the two waivers

800
01:02:45,370 --> 01:02:50,310
that have been eliminated. The sidewalks is going to become a partial waiver now. I appreciate

801
01:02:50,310 --> 01:02:54,770
the applicant further willing us to put provide sidewalks because I think that's an important

802
01:02:54,770 --> 01:03:00,390
component. The only thing that remains is, and we discussed this in our pre-application

803
01:03:00,390 --> 01:03:06,270
meeting but related to the point of sale disclosure for the lots that have wetlands. Essentially wetlands

804
01:03:06,270 --> 01:03:11,090
buffer lines right up to their rear yard. Is there any testimony you can provide to what that

805
01:03:11,090 --> 01:03:17,190
disclosure would be to those applicants? Just for the board's sake, there's wetlands lines that extend

806
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:26,790
right up to the rear of lot 11 and lot 9 sort of on the right side of the plan and basically an

807
01:03:26,790 --> 01:03:31,690
an applicant, a homeowner wouldn't be able to build anything in their regard at all.

808
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:35,550
So we just felt that that was an important note, potentially a point of sale disclosure.

809
01:03:35,890 --> 01:03:35,950
Sure.

810
01:03:36,170 --> 01:03:39,910
Anything without a transition area waiver or other DEP authorization?

811
01:03:40,590 --> 01:03:45,270
And Mr. Davis's point, we did discuss this in our pre-application meeting.

812
01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:53,390
We do agree to provide a draft point of sale disclosure to your board's professionals for

813
01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:58,350
review and approval, advising prospective homeowners of those constraints on the lot.

814
01:03:58,850 --> 01:04:07,790
I believe Mr. Nol also had suggested signage at the rear of the lots where these are impacted,

815
01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:11,570
and we agree to that as well. Mr. Nol, I think it's going to provide us with some

816
01:04:11,570 --> 01:04:17,770
suggested language for the science. So we agree with Mr. Davis' recommendation and Mr. Nol's recommendation

817
01:04:17,770 --> 01:04:21,550
as well. I think Mr. Relicheco also asked for the point of sale to close.

818
01:04:21,550 --> 01:04:28,470
Yeah, that be I do I think that's of great value and assistance to the the township after everything's built it right now

819
01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:35,750
You've identified that as lot nine and line 11 looking at a number and we will just lots over here. We'll just do it on the applicable lots

820
01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:43,050
Yeah, okay, we'll eventually be able to do it. Well, it's kind of extend around. Okay, that's agreed. Okay. Thank you

821
01:04:43,530 --> 01:04:50,250
Yeah, and I appreciate that you'll revise the plans for the impervious coverage limits just understanding that they're probably below

822
01:04:50,250 --> 01:04:56,030
But just that confirmation would be helpful as well and no problem. Thank you. That's all I have Mr. Chairman. Thank you

823
01:04:56,670 --> 01:04:57,390
Mr. Old

824
01:04:57,890 --> 01:04:59,050
Thank you, Mr. Chairman

825
01:05:00,350 --> 01:05:05,810
Most of the comments are August 7th letter have been addressed. I do have a couple of questions or comments

826
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:11,470
regarding the the mailboxes if the post office requires a mailbox cluster

827
01:05:11,470 --> 01:05:17,910
You'll show that appropriate pull off or whatever so people can get out of their cars and get their mail. We will. Okay

828
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:30,960
Item 34, we had talked about this during our meeting of August 25th about Burlington County

829
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,220
required an ultimate 100 foot right of way.

830
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:38,400
That is in the Burlington County's traffic engineering review.

831
01:05:39,100 --> 01:05:42,740
So I just want to make sure you show that as the 100 foot ultimate right away.

832
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:44,140
Yes, we will show that.

833
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:44,740
Okay.

834
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,220
Talk about the sidewalk on the one side.

835
01:05:49,980 --> 01:05:52,960
with the sidewalk on one side are we still calling that a waiver even though it

836
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,800
complies with RSIS a partial waiver I think you called a partial waiver. I will

837
01:05:57,300 --> 01:06:00,340
call it a waiver from the Township Ordnance because the Township Ordnance

838
01:06:00,340 --> 01:06:04,800
requires both sides but maybe RSIS trumps the Township

839
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:11,060
Ordnance. I agree so I initially headed down as a waiver and then after all the

840
01:06:11,060 --> 01:06:14,440
discussion I took it out as a waiver they comply with RSIS you call it a

841
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:15,880
the partial, I want to make sure I'm accurate.

842
01:06:16,300 --> 01:06:18,620
The only partiality would be at the cul-de-sac.

843
01:06:20,460 --> 01:06:22,920
So you can put that in there just to be on the safe side.

844
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,700
Okay, so it's a partial waiver because they've agreed

845
01:06:25,700 --> 01:06:27,780
to do it, RSI as it's just not gonna extend

846
01:06:27,780 --> 01:06:28,500
to the cul-de-sac.

847
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,620
Okay, so it's a partial waiver on the sidewalk.

848
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:32,140
Peace agreed?

849
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:33,060
Agreed.

850
01:06:33,220 --> 01:06:33,620
Thank you.

851
01:06:39,490 --> 01:06:41,330
Yes, yes, that's agreed to.

852
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:49,340
And we had recommended that the existing dwelling

853
01:06:49,340 --> 01:06:55,000
be connected to public order. But based on our meeting we had on August 25th. Ms.

854
01:06:55,100 --> 01:07:00,760
Truffs has stated that her well was sufficient. She had spent some time and money to get

855
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:06,200
it operating properly. So we just asked for a water service to be provided in front of

856
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,840
the house. So in case that well ever does fail or she wants to be on public order, she can

857
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,480
do so. And that she reviewed comment 51? Yes.

858
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,600
That's okay. Yes. Okay. On the traffic

859
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:32,200
I agree with what's been stated and I did get the letter yesterday from the traffic engineer and I didn't have any issues with his response.

860
01:07:33,500 --> 01:07:40,180
Traffic will be what you'd expect from a development like this and I didn't see any significant issues pop up.

861
01:07:43,370 --> 01:07:47,430
We had asked for some vehicle circulation plans, I believe you agreed to do that.

862
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:48,990
Yes, okay.

863
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:57,680
We asked for a few of it for some more information on stormwater. I won't bore it anybody with that

864
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:04,780
but as far as operations and maintenance manual and technical specs on the concrete porous gutters and

865
01:08:05,660 --> 01:08:07,620
Then we had reviewed their environmental assessment

866
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,340
plumbery assessment plan report

867
01:08:11,340 --> 01:08:17,980
They had a number of findings and we had recommend we had agreed to all their findings and there are no significant issues

868
01:08:17,980 --> 01:08:23,660
They came up as a result of that, and that is all I have, Mr. Chair.

869
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:32,100
I think we had one there was, you had the stump that everything's on the loop, except for the one lot.

870
01:08:32,460 --> 01:08:33,040
I forgot that.

871
01:08:33,380 --> 01:08:46,580
So in the fire marshals, fire officials letter item two, it talks about no dead end hydrants, unless specifically approved by the Department of Public Works.

872
01:08:46,580 --> 01:08:57,220
So there's a dead end hydrant at the cul-de-sac, and that's permitted by RSIS and public works director said that was that was fine.

873
01:08:57,400 --> 01:08:58,700
He didn't have an issue with it.

874
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,900
In fact, he preferred it because then it's easier to flush out the water main.

875
01:09:03,380 --> 01:09:12,200
So at that point, I think with that no dead end hydrants that there we have an exception because there's a short dead end to lot number nine.

876
01:09:14,090 --> 01:09:16,370
Well, to the cul-de-sac to the cul-de-sac.

877
01:09:16,370 --> 01:09:17,330
So

878
01:09:22,130 --> 01:09:26,250
to the extent that he agreed to comply with all of the Fire Marshal's comments,

879
01:09:26,370 --> 01:09:28,450
that's the one exception to the Fire Marshal comments.

880
01:09:28,650 --> 01:09:33,470
And I believe that's supported by Mr. Null because it is a short dead end to that spot.

881
01:09:33,750 --> 01:09:34,570
Is that accurate, Mr. Null?

882
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:37,800
Yes, it is.

883
01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:39,020
We agree.

884
01:09:41,450 --> 01:09:43,610
Board members, any questions of our professionals?

885
01:09:44,310 --> 01:09:44,750
Mr. Abram?

886
01:09:45,250 --> 01:09:48,530
Mr. Null, can I direct your attention to comment 66?

887
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:51,220
Yes.

888
01:09:51,220 --> 01:09:52,200
But the

889
01:09:54,570 --> 01:10:01,510
detention basins proposed underside access roads and forced pavement along gutters may require extensive costly maintenance based on this.

890
01:10:01,750 --> 01:10:09,770
The township may not want to assume jurisdiction over these roadways, keeping them private with maintenance costs covered by a homeowner's association.

891
01:10:10,350 --> 01:10:12,050
I understand there's an association.

892
01:10:12,650 --> 01:10:22,410
I understand the association will be responsible for maintenance of that system and there's been some discussion about that.

893
01:10:22,410 --> 01:10:32,030
But I guess it perhaps is a question for Mr. Nol or Mr. Belichko, does the township have

894
01:10:32,030 --> 01:10:33,750
to accept the education of the road?

895
01:10:34,990 --> 01:10:44,230
I'm just worried about down the line what may be involved with this maintenance and looking

896
01:10:44,230 --> 01:10:45,550
at this, what if it fails?

897
01:10:45,890 --> 01:10:49,870
What if they have to dig up the road and redo it, who's going to be responsible for redoing

898
01:10:49,870 --> 01:10:58,510
road. It just seems like it's going to be a complicated situation. And I'm going to

899
01:10:58,510 --> 01:11:07,390
also throw out there. This is a request for preliminary approval also. I have not

900
01:11:07,390 --> 01:11:13,010
had chance to speak to public works about this and understand what their sentiments are

901
01:11:13,010 --> 01:11:19,590
with regard to this. If this is something that can wait to final, we don't have to belabor

902
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:25,270
the point. I can I can represent to you that we had staff meetings and that Mr. Lloyd participated

903
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:29,550
in those staff meetings and when we asked the specific question and he's not here and everyone can

904
01:11:29,550 --> 01:11:34,010
support when we asked the specific question with regard to whether he had any objection and whether

905
01:11:34,010 --> 01:11:39,590
he was agreeable to the dedication of the township he had no objection to that. If I could just make

906
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:45,070
a comment I agree that it could wait till final but I think the Humor Association documents have to

907
01:11:45,070 --> 01:11:49,390
be very clear and specific and that I think the township's got to be the

908
01:11:49,390 --> 01:11:55,830
decider of what's improved, what's repaired, what's improved, etc. and that

909
01:11:55,830 --> 01:12:00,090
goes with either responsible for the home association and the cost in the

910
01:12:00,090 --> 01:12:03,690
store of water maintenance manual they have to provide costs and they have to

911
01:12:03,690 --> 01:12:08,050
provide costs for the home association so they're supposed to collect costs as you

912
01:12:08,050 --> 01:12:12,470
know every year for that so they should if they're operating properly they

913
01:12:12,470 --> 01:12:17,090
should have the funds there, but it's got to be a very tight document.

914
01:12:17,310 --> 01:12:21,410
Because the roadway you were getting into the concrete pavement, as I understood it,

915
01:12:21,570 --> 01:12:31,250
that gutter area, that it's a porous concrete four foot gutter area that abuts the paved

916
01:12:31,250 --> 01:12:31,870
road.

917
01:12:32,170 --> 01:12:32,890
Is that accurate?

918
01:12:33,390 --> 01:12:33,530
Yes.

919
01:12:34,190 --> 01:12:42,010
And it is that four foot section of concrete porous gutter that would be the obligation

920
01:12:42,010 --> 01:12:47,250
to maintain of the HOA, so it continues to act in a porous way.

921
01:12:47,650 --> 01:12:48,130
Was that?

922
01:12:48,510 --> 01:12:49,550
Sotomayor It's actually more than that.

923
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:50,190
Okay.

924
01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:51,770
The storm tanks are under.

925
01:12:51,770 --> 01:12:53,570
Well, the storm tanks, I didn't get to the storm tanks.

926
01:12:53,690 --> 01:12:57,590
I'm going to get to the, so let's just start with what's on top, and then we all,

927
01:12:57,610 --> 01:13:00,150
we've all talked about it, what's underneath it.

928
01:13:00,510 --> 01:13:04,490
But in terms of just the roadway, I wanted to address the issue of not the dedication

929
01:13:04,490 --> 01:13:08,190
of the stormwater system, the question of the dedication of the roadway.

930
01:13:08,210 --> 01:13:11,030
The dedication of the roadway is not a dedication of the gutters.

931
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:13,290
Is that accurate?

932
01:13:14,670 --> 01:13:16,430
It's dedication of the right of way.

933
01:13:16,990 --> 01:13:17,870
The right of way.

934
01:13:18,290 --> 01:13:22,630
And then the HOA is then going to have the obligation to maintain

935
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:26,370
eight feet of that right away, four feet on each side,

936
01:13:26,490 --> 01:13:28,310
which is the poorest concrete.

937
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:33,350
Well, I think the details of that we can probably discuss now,

938
01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:36,490
but I wouldn't say we'd have a dimension like there's a four-foot stripe

939
01:13:36,490 --> 01:13:42,370
that the HUA maintains, and then it's back to the town, then back to the HUA, I wouldn't describe it that way.

940
01:13:42,750 --> 01:13:50,370
I would describe that the poorest gutters are the maintenance and the back trucking and the maintenance of those concrete gutters,

941
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:53,850
poorest concrete gutters would be the maintenance of the HUA.

942
01:13:54,290 --> 01:13:55,630
Are there four feet wide?

943
01:13:55,730 --> 01:13:59,470
Draw, I wouldn't break up the right away into responsibility.

944
01:13:59,650 --> 01:14:04,550
I actually envision, like when I pictured it, and this is the laypers, I thought they'd actually be different colors.

945
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:07,950
that it's going to be the exact same, it's going to be...

946
01:14:08,490 --> 01:14:10,130
No, it won't be concrete, it won't be asked.

947
01:14:10,190 --> 01:14:12,990
No, it will be different. It will appear different.

948
01:14:13,390 --> 01:14:14,290
It will appear different.

949
01:14:14,510 --> 01:14:19,150
And when I go out there and they say, okay, you have to maintain the porous gutter,

950
01:14:20,370 --> 01:14:25,930
I know the HOA's contractor will then do whatever you need to do to maintain that area.

951
01:14:26,090 --> 01:14:26,270
Yes.

952
01:14:26,710 --> 01:14:29,170
And that area is in the right of way.

953
01:14:29,410 --> 01:14:31,350
Yes, it is, but it's more global than that.

954
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:38,290
the tanks underneath the asphalt, yes, the tank fails, then you have to repair the asphalt so it's whatever's there

955
01:14:38,290 --> 01:14:46,130
And if the tank fails and it undermines the road and part of the right away and a sidewalk caves in they got to repair that too

956
01:14:46,130 --> 01:14:53,370
Yeah, or if the water main breaks they got to repair that. All of which I think we can clarify in the HOA

957
01:14:54,410 --> 01:14:59,970
And as you know that Mr. Relichco behind the discussion public works was you know go with the proposal

958
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:27,600
I was okay with it. He was there. It's not here, but I didn't get into a discussion of if there's a complete failure, the entire system in the age of age away is to fund who takes care of it all. I did talk to him. As long as the documents are tight, as Mr. Averine stated. And I think we can maybe by time when we get to final, we could have a sample document so we could talk about it in detail at that time.

959
01:15:30,660 --> 01:15:38,220
I'm just concerned right now and we don't need to belabor it because if it can wait till final I'm okay deferring

960
01:15:38,220 --> 01:15:44,280
it to final but I have not discussed it with Mr. Lloyd and I'd really like the opportunity

961
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:49,620
to discuss it with him and make sure we're all clear about what that obligation is and just think

962
01:15:49,620 --> 01:15:51,460
about future things that do happen.

963
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:56,440
Can we just talk about the it deferred to final that it is the dedication of the roadway?

964
01:15:56,440 --> 01:15:56,760
That's correct.

965
01:15:57,180 --> 01:15:57,660
Thank you.

966
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:26,420
Would it be appropriate that when you're having that conversation that during the final that there would be estimates and of the maintenance cost, and I think that because a lot of times what will happen is when those HOA documents you'll usually have an HOA budget they'll go through it all and in the context of that they have a capital improvement plan that capital improvement talks about what you're going to do to replace those storage tanks in 25 years or 30 years.

967
01:16:26,420 --> 01:16:31,820
There's what you're going to do to replace the impervious gutters in 25 years, and then you're going to have a budget.

968
01:16:31,980 --> 01:16:50,440
So I would think that when they do get to final and there's this determination that we're going to, the dedication of the roadway to the township will be deferred till final, this could be just a suggestion that the time of final, that that type of material be in place so that it could satisfy some of the concerns of the board.

969
01:16:50,440 --> 01:17:03,920
I think the applicant would prefer to propose the roadway to be dedicated as we've discussed already with Mr. Lloyd and the Department of Public Works.

970
01:17:04,100 --> 01:17:05,260
I know you want to discuss it further.

971
01:17:05,740 --> 01:17:09,020
I think you have to subject to acceptable HOA, thank you.

972
01:17:09,060 --> 01:17:18,480
We discussed, we were in a staff meeting, he's not here, and we just simply talked about that portion of his

973
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:18,580
Yes.

974
01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:29,370
The strong water O&M manual also has to include this cost and that's one of the conditions

975
01:17:29,370 --> 01:17:29,990
of our letter.

976
01:17:30,910 --> 01:17:33,410
What is the cost of, I'm sorry, please.

977
01:17:34,070 --> 01:17:38,390
What is the cost to install the system?

978
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:40,730
I don't have that answer.

979
01:17:41,930 --> 01:17:42,790
Hundreds of thousands.

980
01:17:43,650 --> 01:17:44,550
Hundreds of thousands?

981
01:17:44,690 --> 01:17:45,350
A million dollars?

982
01:17:45,610 --> 01:17:46,210
No, not a million.

983
01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:46,470
Okay.

984
01:17:47,630 --> 01:17:49,570
I'm just saying how many houses are there?

985
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:50,870
Twenty-four.

986
01:17:50,870 --> 01:18:04,630
So if you take that number and divide it by 24, right, and so if it fails, I think what we're trying to understand, because then what happens then will the township do a special assessment?

987
01:18:04,630 --> 01:18:12,070
And where responsible for it either way and if the stormwater system fails and it needs

988
01:18:12,070 --> 01:18:12,650
to be replaced.

989
01:18:13,050 --> 01:18:17,630
Number one, there's a new law in New Jersey that the HOA has to have a capital reserve.

990
01:18:18,110 --> 01:18:18,870
And you're familiar.

991
01:18:18,970 --> 01:18:19,010
You're familiar.

992
01:18:19,010 --> 01:18:20,150
Well, I know.

993
01:18:20,510 --> 01:18:25,170
So that'll have to happen and that's going to be on the HOA either way.

994
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:31,750
What we're talking about here is also instead of having the roadway dedicated as a public

995
01:18:31,750 --> 01:18:40,390
street, which entails snow plowing, trash pick up, and so forth, then all those other obligations

996
01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:44,910
that then go on to the HOA. So now, now you're putting more obligations on the HOA.

997
01:18:44,930 --> 01:18:52,910
Let me ask you this. Is the applicant agreeable to deferring the dedication of the roadway

998
01:18:52,910 --> 01:18:59,850
to the township? That issue, or are you agreeable to deferring that to the time of final subdivision

999
01:18:59,850 --> 01:19:08,850
I would propose instead to make the condition that the roadways would be offered for dedication,

1000
01:19:09,370 --> 01:19:16,990
subject to the board professionals review and satisfaction with the HOA documentation and

1001
01:19:16,990 --> 01:19:22,090
the O&M review documentation and the cost estimates being provided.

1002
01:19:22,590 --> 01:19:28,310
If you're not satisfied that the HOA documentation can cover it, then I think that's okay.

1003
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:31,770
Okay, I think that when we get to the time of a vote, we might have to decide whether

1004
01:19:31,770 --> 01:19:35,530
we'll bifurcate that as you are not bifurcated as you might be, that there's a vote where

1005
01:19:35,530 --> 01:19:38,090
you want it, as you want it, and you're entitled to how do you want it.

1006
01:19:38,170 --> 01:19:44,730
We want it now as a dedication, a subject to review, they can vote on that, and then it could

1007
01:19:44,730 --> 01:19:49,450
be okay, assuming that passes, then we don't have to worry about it, but if it doesn't,

1008
01:19:49,530 --> 01:19:50,030
then it is okay.

1009
01:19:50,050 --> 01:19:54,130
Now, we take a vote with the dedication and the roadway being deferred to final approval.

1010
01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:58,290
If that's a vote that you want, and it could be that then, based on the concerns on

1011
01:19:58,290 --> 01:19:58,790
or what they would be.

1012
01:19:59,050 --> 01:20:01,110
Yeah, and again, I would reiterate the point

1013
01:20:01,110 --> 01:20:03,490
that if the concern is that we're going to have

1014
01:20:03,490 --> 01:20:06,530
too much financial responsibility on the HOA

1015
01:20:06,530 --> 01:20:08,930
that it can't meet by the township

1016
01:20:08,930 --> 01:20:11,110
not accepting dedication to the roadway,

1017
01:20:11,290 --> 01:20:14,290
you're adding more financial obligation onto the HOA.

1018
01:20:14,490 --> 01:20:16,850
This HOA will have to do the maintenance

1019
01:20:16,850 --> 01:20:19,690
of the storm water management system, right?

1020
01:20:20,170 --> 01:20:22,570
That's it's gonna be its sole purpose and obligation.

1021
01:20:22,770 --> 01:20:25,410
If we don't have the roadway accepted

1022
01:20:25,410 --> 01:20:29,870
it as a public street, which entails snow plowing and maintenance and trash pickup.

1023
01:20:30,290 --> 01:20:34,830
Then this HOA, the board is giving the HOA more obligations that it will have to come up.

1024
01:20:35,570 --> 01:20:37,730
That's as it's currently designed.

1025
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:42,310
No, it's, I mean, it could be, in vision, a scenario where it's designed in a different way.

1026
01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:44,730
And there's not as many houses and there's above ground basins.

1027
01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:49,430
And now it is a system that's not as expensive to put in or maintain or replace if it fails.

1028
01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:54,210
As opposed, if it fails, if a basin fails and it's in the middle of a field, you can go there and

1029
01:20:54,210 --> 01:20:55,370
you can try to do what you need to do.

1030
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:59,630
If a basin fails and it's under your roadway is more complicated and that ties

1031
01:20:59,630 --> 01:21:03,170
into the dedication issue, I think.

1032
01:21:04,230 --> 01:21:06,130
And I didn't even raise the dedication issue.

1033
01:21:06,270 --> 01:21:09,330
I just responded to the, if the question raised, I understand.

1034
01:21:09,510 --> 01:21:11,930
So, yeah, I think we understand each other's, you know.

1035
01:21:11,930 --> 01:21:14,770
And Mr. Moore, he's concerned, the other board member's concern is that we could put

1036
01:21:14,770 --> 01:21:17,710
anything we want on the HOAs, but we all know that it doesn't, doesn't matter

1037
01:21:17,710 --> 01:21:21,590
what everyone's best intention is, you can assess an HOA, but if an HOA doesn't have

1038
01:21:21,590 --> 01:21:23,130
of the money to take care of itself,

1039
01:21:23,290 --> 01:21:24,850
it's not gonna have the money to pay any assessment,

1040
01:21:25,090 --> 01:21:26,570
and then the township ends up holding the bill.

1041
01:21:26,810 --> 01:21:28,570
It has to have the money by law,

1042
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:31,490
and the town will have the right to assess,

1043
01:21:31,770 --> 01:21:31,810
oh,

1044
01:21:33,820 --> 01:21:34,620
thank you.

1045
01:21:35,540 --> 01:21:37,520
The township will have the right to assess

1046
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:39,580
any of those costs against the lots,

1047
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,680
in the same manner as it assesses taxes.

1048
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,700
So this is a voluntary agreement that if this system fails

1049
01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:49,160
and the township has to undertake any work,

1050
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,100
it's going to be able to assess those costs against these lots.

1051
01:21:52,100 --> 01:21:57,440
It will not be out of the township's pocket to accept responsibility under any circumstance

1052
01:21:58,110 --> 01:22:00,080
for the stormwater management system.

1053
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,980
We're only talking really about obligation for maintenance, the roadway and the trash

1054
01:22:04,980 --> 01:22:05,300
pickup.

1055
01:22:05,780 --> 01:22:09,480
And the township would have obligations or trash pickup that we'd have to get into with

1056
01:22:09,480 --> 01:22:12,040
regards to reimbursement agreement or providing the service anyway.

1057
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:18,620
So I think we're almost have to look at it from both perspectives by not agreeing to accept

1058
01:22:18,620 --> 01:22:19,820
the roadway dedication.

1059
01:22:19,820 --> 01:22:24,880
I think you're exacerbating the concerns that it isn't it isn't not a green.

1060
01:22:25,460 --> 01:22:32,220
It is deferring to a final right, but but we we're looking tonight to make a condition.

1061
01:22:32,220 --> 01:22:39,800
I get it right I respect that in what we'll do right that's that's that's what you're asking that we'll have to satisfy the board's professionals.

1062
01:22:40,260 --> 01:22:45,040
And I think Mr. Abram will have the opportunity to discuss things further with Mr. Lloyd and Mr.

1063
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:57,640
as to whether the HOA documentation and the OAM documentation is satisfactory and that is a condition that would have to be met in order to proceed to final.

1064
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:10,600
If not, then when we get to final, the board professionals can indicate the proposal was reviewed, it's not accepted, and therefore everything has to be private, including the road.

1065
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,120
If I can make a comment.

1066
01:23:13,580 --> 01:23:13,820
Go ahead.

1067
01:23:14,380 --> 01:23:16,520
So, when you get preliminary approval,

1068
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:17,500
you're invested, correct?

1069
01:23:17,940 --> 01:23:18,060
Mm-hmm.

1070
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,640
Okay, so this shows right away,

1071
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,140
and the lots are based on that right away,

1072
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:24,640
the lot sizes of lot lines.

1073
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,260
If it's private, all that changes.

1074
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,200
So, if you approve it with the private,

1075
01:23:31,380 --> 01:23:32,900
the public road with the right away,

1076
01:23:33,140 --> 01:23:36,480
subject to the conditions as stated by Mr. Barron-Aschi,

1077
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:37,380
he doesn't meet them,

1078
01:23:37,740 --> 01:23:39,040
and you want to go private,

1079
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,020
then you'll have to come back for amended preliminary because all the

1080
01:23:43,020 --> 01:23:44,120
lightlights are going to change.

1081
01:23:44,340 --> 01:23:45,860
Because now you're going to have a private road.

1082
01:23:46,220 --> 01:23:46,340
Yes.

1083
01:23:48,700 --> 01:23:52,220
And the plans we have show it as right away.

1084
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:55,620
Right.

1085
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:56,080
Thank you.

1086
01:23:56,100 --> 01:24:00,560
Mr. Noel, your point is that road is meeting the township and RSI specifications for

1087
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:01,400
public road, correct?

1088
01:24:01,780 --> 01:24:05,800
But it doesn't preclude you from not finding that it's acceptable and

1089
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:07,180
haven't come back for amended preliminary.

1090
01:24:08,440 --> 01:24:09,820
I had a question for Chris.

1091
01:24:09,820 --> 01:24:11,680
This is kind of backing off from the road,

1092
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,320
conversation, just the stormwater conversation,

1093
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,380
because this is the second subdivision we've seen recently,

1094
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:20,900
where the stormwater obligations are higher now

1095
01:24:20,900 --> 01:24:23,320
in New Jersey than they were a few years ago

1096
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:24,260
for a subdivision.

1097
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:26,680
Is that true with what they have to do?

1098
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:27,700
Correct, yes.

1099
01:24:28,420 --> 01:24:30,900
So one thing we're, if it feels like part of this

1100
01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:32,400
is a state of play we're now in

1101
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:34,740
that we're going to have HOAs

1102
01:24:35,460 --> 01:24:37,320
responsible for stormwater maintenance,

1103
01:24:38,540 --> 01:24:41,660
more strong water maintenance than they did prior to those new rules.

1104
01:24:41,820 --> 01:24:47,640
So it seems like, I know we, you know, I guess the question is I think I know some of the things we can do.

1105
01:24:48,140 --> 01:24:55,580
The HOA needs to have the money, the HOA, I know the maintenance plans need to be filed with the township.

1106
01:24:55,740 --> 01:25:01,460
I think that's one thing, so my question for you is I guess this is just something that is now,

1107
01:25:01,460 --> 01:25:06,320
if you're going to do a major subdivision in New Jersey, you're going to have to at an HOA level put more

1108
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:08,280
in a stormwater because the state demands it.

1109
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:11,580
And this town has to get used to that.

1110
01:25:11,820 --> 01:25:12,560
I guess the question would be,

1111
01:25:12,740 --> 01:25:14,040
what can we do in the process?

1112
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:16,260
Is there anything we can do in our process

1113
01:25:16,260 --> 01:25:18,460
on this application, future applications

1114
01:25:18,860 --> 01:25:22,340
to make sure that we're looking out for the town

1115
01:25:22,340 --> 01:25:26,560
and making sure that these subdivisions are created

1116
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:29,340
and that the HOAs do what they need to do

1117
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,060
and we don't have issues in the future, especially Ken.

1118
01:25:32,340 --> 01:25:35,240
We're kind of bound by what the state requires

1119
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:41,640
And then I believe the state requires the HOA document or reviews the HOA documents normally

1120
01:25:42,440 --> 01:25:45,400
but you make them as tight as you can and

1121
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:50,080
Make sure that your economic analysis is adequate

1122
01:25:52,620 --> 01:25:53,660
conservative and

1123
01:25:53,660 --> 01:25:55,800
Make sure that they collect the money every year

1124
01:25:55,800 --> 01:26:02,720
And maybe monitor the HOA to make sure that they're doing it. Maybe that's what the town can do

1125
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,580
Because otherwise you wouldn't know, right, right?

1126
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:08,760
Before we open to the public, I couldn't hear no.

1127
01:26:09,300 --> 01:26:09,500
Okay.

1128
01:26:11,740 --> 01:26:12,860
Go ahead, we can do it.

1129
01:26:14,300 --> 01:26:17,020
Yeah, I'm going to, at this time, I'm going to ask for, if I could.

1130
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:19,600
Again, no more deliberations, just another five minute break, if I could.

1131
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,300
No deliberations by anybody, any board members or discussions at this time.

1132
01:26:28,590 --> 01:26:31,390
Just, just, and then right back down.

1133
01:26:35,850 --> 01:26:38,410
Yeah, but you can't, you can ask when we get it back on the record.

1134
01:26:38,410 --> 01:26:39,410
Yeah, absolutely.

1135
01:26:39,690 --> 01:26:40,110
And

1136
01:26:50,990 --> 01:26:55,490
there was a board down there like that, and two my board members went down, and the

1137
01:26:55,490 --> 01:26:59,210
one board member is, the other board member couldn't figure out, but just like this, like

1138
01:27:00,850 --> 01:27:07,490
the guy next to us said, Frank, back on the record, he said,

1139
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,720
let's try, are you, I'm

1140
01:27:16,030 --> 01:27:16,070
going

1141
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:17,470
about the application, and make,

1142
01:27:19,980 --> 01:27:22,020
that's what I was expecting, I just want to make sure

1143
01:27:22,020 --> 01:27:22,440
there wasn't.

1144
01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:23,200
Okay, fine.

1145
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:25,080
Well, you just got to throw wide open on that.

1146
01:27:25,460 --> 01:27:25,980
Clear that.

1147
01:27:25,980 --> 01:27:30,460
Everybody out, took the board member down there, put him under the guidance and everything

1148
01:27:30,460 --> 01:27:31,740
you said to that person.

1149
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:35,360
I mean, when I recorded it, it was a delivery.

1150
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:36,560
Did it, did it, did it, did it.

1151
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:38,860
And I went on for like, it's more as I possibly could.

1152
01:27:39,180 --> 01:27:40,280
And I put the other person up.

1153
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:41,680
Did the exact same thing.

1154
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:43,360
You just exhausted it.

1155
01:27:43,660 --> 01:27:45,140
And I was, Mr. Crank, can we continue?

1156
01:27:45,420 --> 01:27:50,520
Or, or treat me at this point, treat, abort the hearing and start a new board members.

1157
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:16,100
Thank you everyone for that brief break. We are back on the record. I can tell you Mr. Chair I believe there's a

1158
01:28:16,100 --> 01:28:18,060
I'm not sure we were with questions, Mr.

1159
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:18,940
why are you still going?

1160
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:20,180
You're finished.

1161
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,220
Okay, I believe Ms. Petriello had a couple.

1162
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:24,220
I think you had a follow-up.

1163
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:24,960
There's you.

1164
01:28:25,540 --> 01:28:30,380
I just had a very simple question just for clarifying for myself.

1165
01:28:31,260 --> 01:28:37,400
It seems like we're concerned about the roadway.

1166
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:44,900
If the roadway has to be taken up, not because that's failing but because of the storm water management system is failing.

1167
01:28:44,900 --> 01:28:50,440
And then the cost, who has the burden of that cost, right?

1168
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:55,320
And I think in the HOA documents, I think we should absolutely clarify that.

1169
01:28:55,580 --> 01:29:01,560
I'm not quite sure how we would do that, but that seems to be, seems like the concern that we're hearing.

1170
01:29:03,020 --> 01:29:05,440
I think it's a fair comment, Mr. Murryuchi.

1171
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:12,660
And I think we should provide in the HOA documents, if that were to occur, the HOA would be responsible for any road repair.

1172
01:29:12,660 --> 01:29:16,300
that would be necessitated because of doing work

1173
01:29:16,300 --> 01:29:18,080
on the stormwater management system certainly.

1174
01:29:22,570 --> 01:29:23,650
Kind of my follow-up question.

1175
01:29:23,850 --> 01:29:27,630
So we're talking about having pervious gutters.

1176
01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:31,710
And I see the way our township we collect trees,

1177
01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:33,250
you know, the tree branches.

1178
01:29:34,110 --> 01:29:36,630
And we sweep with circular, so we're out there

1179
01:29:36,630 --> 01:29:38,610
with bucket loaders picking up the branches

1180
01:29:38,610 --> 01:29:42,510
or out there with circular vacuums vacuuming the gutters.

1181
01:29:43,170 --> 01:29:45,290
I wonder what kind of effect or impact

1182
01:29:45,290 --> 01:29:55,070
that's going to have on this pervious sidewalks and should they become damaged or is the township responsible?

1183
01:29:55,370 --> 01:29:59,710
Does the township have an obligation to find a different way of providing those services?

1184
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:18,760
There's that might not adversely affect that infrastructure. So if there's other conversations that are happening around this road and the maintenance and the care for it, can we consider ongoing maintenance from the township's perspective when it provides these additional services to residents?

1185
01:30:23,260 --> 01:30:32,320
Who is that question directed to? Let me ask you this. I don't know a lot about the impervious gutters. So it's not uncharacteristic when we have storms or we had last night.

1186
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:36,240
people dry tree branches out and throw them in the gutter. Is that going to affect the

1187
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:39,960
purviews? Is it going to get a higher? And you're also referring to street sweeping too?

1188
01:30:40,060 --> 01:30:45,540
Yeah, well seasonal, seasonal pickup, you know. That's fine. These are designed to handle

1189
01:30:46,060 --> 01:30:51,520
truckloads and street sweeping, that will not damage the concrete porous gutter. And circular

1190
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:56,620
sweeping, coming by on a regular basis. In fact, we specify that there needs to be sweeping

1191
01:30:56,620 --> 01:31:01,240
of the gutters. That's going to be in the maintenance manual. Right, right. But I know it's

1192
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:07,700
pervious services so they are a unique breed and they require special care so I'm just

1193
01:31:07,700 --> 01:31:15,300
making sure that the way we provide that care is care that the system benefits by.

1194
01:31:16,620 --> 01:31:20,940
And if not, do we have an obligation to have to provide it in that manner?

1195
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:23,060
Maintenance of the gutters is part of the HOA.

1196
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:28,620
Maintenance of the pervious gutters is required, it'll be part of the HOA's requirements.

1197
01:31:28,620 --> 01:31:37,560
That does raise an interesting question of someone actually took down a tree in my neighborhood

1198
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:45,200
and all the branches are right on the street and we actually have daughters that are impervious.

1199
01:31:47,780 --> 01:31:54,560
How does it work when you have debris all over like on the side?

1200
01:31:55,580 --> 01:32:02,420
Yeah, so like you know people taking their brush the brush out to the to the sidewalk

1201
01:32:02,420 --> 01:32:07,680
I don't think it would be any different. I'm not sure. Well does that block the water from going through? Oh, no, no, no

1202
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:14,180
Because you're talking about debris like branches and trees. Yeah, no, that's that's fine

1203
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:23,760
It would be removed eventually and and also they're generally water can proceed through the branches and debris that so that's fine

1204
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:32,820
Just to follow up on that, one of my concerns, and again, this is why I have not talked to Mr.

1205
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:33,700
Lloyd about this.

1206
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:37,840
We pick up leaves every fall.

1207
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:43,680
Stormwater regulations say, put it on off the street.

1208
01:32:44,700 --> 01:32:45,980
I put it off the street.

1209
01:32:47,140 --> 01:32:52,620
Everybody drive by in a couple of weeks and you'll see, I put it on it.

1210
01:32:52,620 --> 01:32:57,340
kills my grasp, my wife always yells at me and says you're being a martyr, don't do it,

1211
01:32:57,440 --> 01:33:02,840
but I do it. I try to be a good example. Nobody else does it. Everybody else puts the leaves in the

1212
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:09,180
street. I know our regulations say don't do it, but everybody does it. They start to decompose.

1213
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:16,320
You're going to get bits of leaves getting into this impervious concrete. And then I can see

1214
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:23,280
the association saying, you know, oh, townships' leaves are now causing a problem here.

1215
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:28,620
Well, they're not the townships' leaves, but I think we're getting this, you know, speculative.

1216
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:34,500
Leave's going to fall. I don't think it's speculative. I'm sorry, Mr. Benowski, but then what's going to happen is

1217
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:40,220
these people are going to get these, put these leaves in the street, and then the township's going to say,

1218
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,200
you can't do that, then they're going to get fined. And here's the other thing.

1219
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:45,900
Again, we need to talk to Mr. Lloyd.

1220
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:53,480
We really don't have the proper equipment to pick the leaves up on the grass or the sidewalk.

1221
01:33:53,980 --> 01:33:59,340
So we're going to have to do that if you can't put the leaves in the street because it's

1222
01:33:59,340 --> 01:34:00,300
pervious concrete.

1223
01:34:01,380 --> 01:34:03,440
But your ordinance already says don't put them in the street.

1224
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:04,520
We started with that premise.

1225
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:11,500
But in any event, these systems are designed to function in the place where they're being

1226
01:34:11,500 --> 01:34:12,040
put.

1227
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:18,000
but they're not designed to be a gutter of a road if, you know, if holding your hands

1228
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:23,000
on top of it for 30 seconds or putting some leaves on top, you know, they're designed

1229
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:28,800
with the fact that leaves do fall and they're designed for utilization in this state.

1230
01:34:29,060 --> 01:34:33,680
They're conforming with the stormwater management requirements.

1231
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:39,580
The plan and the materials involved satisfy the stormwater management regulations.

1232
01:34:39,580 --> 01:34:44,280
They have a certain design where they will function under these circumstances.

1233
01:34:44,700 --> 01:35:08,740
So I know we're kind of really retreading the issue because the concern is what if the township owns the road and does something and there's a dispute between the HOA and the town over who did what and did the town make the stormwater management system unfunctional by clogging it or sweeping it or damaging it.

1234
01:35:08,740 --> 01:35:13,200
and I think we can really parse out all of those issues

1235
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:14,280
in the documentation.

1236
01:35:14,940 --> 01:35:18,000
I don't think we're gonna come up with things

1237
01:35:18,390 --> 01:35:22,380
in this colloquy right now that will render

1238
01:35:22,750 --> 01:35:24,620
the situation unworkable.

1239
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:29,460
I think these circumstances can be very directly addressed

1240
01:35:29,460 --> 01:35:33,300
in the appropriate HOA maintenance documentation.

1241
01:35:35,460 --> 01:35:38,080
One last question I apologize, probably for Sam.

1242
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:49,360
I am not aware that this is in any development in Morstown, where we have sub-road, sub-public

1243
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,100
road, stormwater.

1244
01:35:52,220 --> 01:35:58,560
I know we have some areas where we have pervious pavement out at the Maldives Pervious

1245
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:02,840
Pavement, Harper Drive's Pervious Pavement, but that's private, not public.

1246
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:12,800
Can you tell me any other municipality in the region that has this type of

1247
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:23,800
pervious concrete or sub-road basin as is proposed here so I could go take a look at it?

1248
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:28,480
The last time we proposed it is for a project in Glassboro.

1249
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:45,220
I was not the project manager, but my office worked on the project, and there is storm tanks underneath the parking areas and the driveways adjacent to the public right away. I believe part of it does go in the public right away, but I can check that for you.

1250
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:52,200
That project is under construction. I believe part of it is done. So I can give you I can send you that address.

1251
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:55,040
Do you know the name of the project?

1252
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:59,140
Okay. Just because we're the glass for our plan.

1253
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:02,200
I believe I won't I will get to that. Okay.

1254
01:37:05,490 --> 01:37:27,250
So I see my question maybe a little bit naive but given all the concerns and issues we've just spent a lot of time on and a lot of the unknowns going forward has the applicant considered using the more traditional above ground basin and not going forward with something this new that have so many potential issues.

1255
01:37:27,250 --> 01:37:30,670
we have. And part of our concern with the

1256
01:37:30,670 --> 01:37:33,870
bug ground basin was our charge at the

1257
01:37:33,870 --> 01:37:35,930
beginning of this project and throughout

1258
01:37:35,930 --> 01:37:37,410
this project is to preserve as many trees

1259
01:37:37,410 --> 01:37:39,910
as possible. If we have one lot that is

1260
01:37:39,910 --> 01:37:42,930
solely, maybe even two lots, I'm not sure

1261
01:37:42,930 --> 01:37:44,790
we haven't done the design, but if we have

1262
01:37:44,790 --> 01:37:46,450
two lots that are solely above ground

1263
01:37:46,450 --> 01:37:49,370
basins, that would be 100% tree removal.

1264
01:37:49,810 --> 01:37:52,490
Whereas if you look at exhibit 1a, each

1265
01:37:52,490 --> 01:37:55,010
of these lots has areas where there's

1266
01:37:55,010 --> 01:38:00,250
trees on that are saved on part of the property, if not majority of the property in some cases.

1267
01:38:00,550 --> 01:38:07,590
So those basins would have 100% tree removal and a traditional basin would have that kind

1268
01:38:07,590 --> 01:38:07,990
of design.

1269
01:38:08,290 --> 01:38:12,670
Our charge was to save as many trees as we could, so that's the reason we chose that path.

1270
01:38:13,150 --> 01:38:17,030
Could you perhaps save some trees by having less houses?

1271
01:38:18,450 --> 01:38:21,950
If I can I address that because I hear that question again.

1272
01:38:22,110 --> 01:38:24,350
Yeah, can we just pull the microphone up closer?

1273
01:38:24,850 --> 01:38:31,710
Could that issue about saving the trees be balanced out by having maybe one less house or so?

1274
01:38:31,970 --> 01:38:36,630
The plan conforms with the ordinance for lot size.

1275
01:38:37,170 --> 01:38:42,370
So the number of houses is appropriate and the plan conforms with storm water management requirements.

1276
01:38:42,370 --> 01:38:49,450
So that is a conforming plan and I think one of your comments was concern over the system

1277
01:38:49,450 --> 01:38:50,110
not working.

1278
01:38:50,370 --> 01:38:55,470
I thought the discussion was being driven by a concern that the road would be public

1279
01:38:55,470 --> 01:38:58,810
and the gutter area would be privately maintained.

1280
01:38:59,670 --> 01:39:07,190
I don't think there's a concern that the system won't work as designed in and of itself per

1281
01:39:07,190 --> 01:39:07,450
say.

1282
01:39:07,930 --> 01:39:08,650
That's not the concern.

1283
01:39:08,650 --> 01:39:15,090
and the concern is would the township somehow be responsible for some cost associated with

1284
01:39:15,690 --> 01:39:21,130
the stormwater management system if it's adjacent to the township road and if it's within

1285
01:39:21,130 --> 01:39:24,970
the township's right away. So it's not that the system won't work. I think Mr.

1286
01:39:25,110 --> 01:39:30,430
Noel is familiar with the engineering requirements. I think he's weighed in on it. And Mr. Noel,

1287
01:39:30,550 --> 01:39:35,970
Mr. Renaro, or an agreement that the system meets the stormwater management design requirements.

1288
01:39:35,970 --> 01:39:40,290
It's expected to function as design.

1289
01:39:40,610 --> 01:39:44,570
I think that the debate was, we don't, you, as a board,

1290
01:39:44,830 --> 01:39:47,110
understandably, I get it, don't want the township

1291
01:39:47,110 --> 01:39:51,490
to absorb any cost associated with this proposed storm

1292
01:39:51,490 --> 01:39:52,290
water management system.

1293
01:39:52,290 --> 01:39:55,630
If you accept dedication and ownership of the road,

1294
01:39:56,050 --> 01:39:58,230
and that's why I'm proposing we address that

1295
01:39:58,230 --> 01:40:02,210
by way of the HOA documentation and the ONM manual.

1296
01:40:02,930 --> 01:40:04,990
We can lay out the responsibilities there.

1297
01:40:04,990 --> 01:40:11,290
It's not. I don't want to give a false sense of concern that the system won't work because it will work as design or

1298
01:40:11,910 --> 01:40:17,230
The or the system, you know designer and and fabricator would have you know a claim against it

1299
01:40:17,230 --> 01:40:19,530
But it's expected to work as design

1300
01:40:20,050 --> 01:40:26,290
Does that make sense? It does but yet again the only example is one in Glasper that's under construction and not

1301
01:40:26,290 --> 01:40:30,490
Completed so we don't really have a history of how they work

1302
01:40:32,830 --> 01:40:36,790
I'm sorry, I'm sorry we got one person at a time and we have to be on Mike so we can't

1303
01:40:36,790 --> 01:40:39,690
talk from the back benches like we're not in parliament like we got to be right up on

1304
01:40:39,690 --> 01:40:40,430
a microphone please.

1305
01:40:40,430 --> 01:40:45,270
No that's just what I've worked on personally this project is all over this product product

1306
01:40:45,270 --> 01:40:49,630
product probably use all over okay all right because I'm just hearing concerns about ongoing

1307
01:40:49,630 --> 01:40:54,510
potential problems and I'm just thinking how can they best be addressed by coming to

1308
01:40:54,510 --> 01:40:57,410
some agreement that would limit some of those.

1309
01:40:57,950 --> 01:41:01,050
That's the agreement I want to answer into with the HOA documentation.

1310
01:41:02,030 --> 01:41:02,830
Thank you.

1311
01:41:02,870 --> 01:41:03,130
Okay.

1312
01:41:05,650 --> 01:41:09,110
All right, board members, at this point in time, I'm going to open the meeting to the public.

1313
01:41:09,590 --> 01:41:14,010
Anyone who would like to speak on this application, please come forward and be sworn in.

1314
01:41:21,180 --> 01:41:21,960
Good evening, how are you?

1315
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:22,540
Hello.

1316
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:24,640
How many have you come right up close to the microphone?

1317
01:41:25,060 --> 01:41:26,140
It's amplifier finance recording.

1318
01:41:26,420 --> 01:41:28,980
Could I have your full name slowly please in your address?

1319
01:41:29,480 --> 01:41:31,880
Yes, my phone name is Shirley, and-

1320
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:32,860
Is Bella for me, please?

1321
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:37,120
SHUO is the first name, L-I is the last name.

1322
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:38,020
OK, and your address?

1323
01:41:38,460 --> 01:41:41,140
For Kando's Renroad, Morristown, New Jersey.

1324
01:41:41,900 --> 01:41:42,980
And can you raise your right hand?

1325
01:41:43,480 --> 01:41:45,740
And do you swear from the test room to give a view of truth?

1326
01:41:46,380 --> 01:41:46,560
Yes.

1327
01:41:46,740 --> 01:41:47,360
OK, go ahead.

1328
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:52,140
OK, if I ask a question, are the experts allowed to answer

1329
01:41:52,140 --> 01:41:53,220
or do I just have to answer?

1330
01:41:53,420 --> 01:41:57,860
It's public comment, so it's not a question answered,

1331
01:41:57,860 --> 01:42:06,520
But you can ask questions, you can articulate information that you would like to hear, and it'll be up to the applicant to determine if they will respond or not.

1332
01:42:06,780 --> 01:42:14,760
Okay. So on Kendall's run, we're all on well water, and when I hear about this underground tank, that's going to be very deep.

1333
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:27,480
I worry about whether that's going to disrupt our water supply, you know, how deep it would go, how big it's going to be, and the construction of that, whether it's going to impact the well water supply.

1334
01:42:27,480 --> 01:42:33,480
for our street. That's my question number one. Question number two is we're very

1335
01:42:33,480 --> 01:42:36,920
low-lying you know all direct direct your voice this way because the microphone

1336
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:41,500
just set up. Okay good. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry. Elevation is low on

1337
01:42:41,500 --> 01:42:47,700
Kandos well we're not in FEMA flood zone but we are close enough like there are

1338
01:42:47,700 --> 01:42:53,860
certain areas you know even on this property that's in flood zone but we're not

1339
01:42:53,860 --> 01:43:02,940
yet in FEMA flood zone. So I worry about flooding and when you have basements that meet the water table

1340
01:43:02,940 --> 01:43:09,820
standard and you know bottom of the basement will be two at least two feet above the water table.

1341
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:18,360
Does that mean that the houses will be built on elevated hill like you know the dirt will be

1342
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:23,920
And when you build there, then the basement will be sufficiently high.

1343
01:43:24,100 --> 01:43:30,780
However, the water will be run off from the new houses, hills to our condos run backyard,

1344
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:34,540
which impacts the storm and the water for our street.

1345
01:43:35,380 --> 01:43:37,100
So those are my two questions.

1346
01:43:38,420 --> 01:43:38,920
Thank you.

1347
01:43:43,580 --> 01:43:49,660
We're going to run all through public comment and then to the extent the advocates want to respond to this room.

1348
01:43:49,660 --> 01:43:49,960
We can.

1349
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:51,660
Good evening, sir.

1350
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:52,220
How are you?

1351
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:53,000
Good, how are you?

1352
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:53,520
Good.

1353
01:43:53,860 --> 01:43:55,620
Could I have your full name and address, please?

1354
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:56,600
How are you, Mayor?

1355
01:43:56,740 --> 01:43:57,340
I'm AYER.

1356
01:43:58,420 --> 01:43:58,980
349 East.

1357
01:43:59,100 --> 01:43:59,480
Second Street.

1358
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:01,920
I had a whole list of questions.

1359
01:44:02,140 --> 01:44:03,240
And can you raise your right hand?

1360
01:44:03,440 --> 01:44:04,880
And you swear from testimony to be truth?

1361
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:05,840
Yes.

1362
01:44:06,120 --> 01:44:06,480
Go ahead, sir.

1363
01:44:07,100 --> 01:44:10,140
I had a whole list of questions, and I appreciate that most of them are answered.

1364
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:14,160
This does say, I know you guys brought up a lot of good points about this road.

1365
01:44:14,420 --> 01:44:16,120
This is a private road written all over to me.

1366
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:24,660
I don't want to have the township be responsible for putting salt down or sand down flowing into the impervious gutters.

1367
01:44:25,420 --> 01:44:29,800
To me, if everybody have a HOA, make them responsible for the whole road.

1368
01:44:30,900 --> 01:44:32,060
That's back up a little bit now.

1369
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:37,000
If this development does go through, it has anyone ever contacted that New Jersey official wildlife.

1370
01:44:37,340 --> 01:44:41,600
I know there's, I'm concerned about the reptiles in this area.

1371
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:43,240
if they're going to build it in the winter time,

1372
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:47,760
who's going to do the reptile sweep for protective species

1373
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:55,000
like Eastern Box Turtle and corn snakes.

1374
01:44:55,700 --> 01:44:58,960
I know they're in the area and being in proximity

1375
01:44:58,960 --> 01:44:59,980
to Banger Creek.

1376
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:28,840
I know they're in that area, so I know that the two properties are a budding, so there's got to be there. This is the last property. This property hasn't been really touched in the last 40 years. I know it used to be an old Boy Scouts camp. It's a pristine property. I'm sure there's reptiles in there that need be taken care in the summer and spring and summer or fall, not in the winter time, because they're on the ground. All right. Thank you.

1377
01:45:29,480 --> 01:45:30,120
Thank you, sir.

1378
01:45:38,580 --> 01:45:39,300
Good evening.

1379
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:40,160
Welcome.

1380
01:45:40,260 --> 01:45:41,700
Could I get your full name and address, please?

1381
01:45:41,980 --> 01:45:44,280
Pamela Richards, 304 colonial ass.

1382
01:45:46,270 --> 01:45:46,750
Thank you.

1383
01:45:46,790 --> 01:45:47,650
Raise your hand, Mr. Richards.

1384
01:45:47,870 --> 01:45:49,690
And do you swear from the testimony to give a seat to be the truth?

1385
01:45:50,350 --> 01:45:50,530
Yes.

1386
01:45:50,730 --> 01:45:51,170
Okay, great.

1387
01:45:51,310 --> 01:45:51,530
Thank you.

1388
01:45:51,550 --> 01:45:51,990
Go ahead, ma'am.

1389
01:45:52,650 --> 01:45:57,850
I also would have concerns that perhaps this should be a private road.

1390
01:45:58,590 --> 01:46:07,790
I appreciate the applicant's attorneys viewpoint of additional expenses onto the HOA.

1391
01:46:07,790 --> 01:46:14,890
I find the only alternative and I don't think Worsetown has done a very good job of this

1392
01:46:14,890 --> 01:46:23,350
in the past, but the HOA documents as well as the deeds would have to take a lot of time

1393
01:46:23,790 --> 01:46:27,190
in articulating all the responsibilities.

1394
01:46:27,950 --> 01:46:36,230
I find it troubling that we constantly make exceptions take on more than we can handle for

1395
01:46:36,230 --> 01:46:42,530
new developments. Meanwhile, we have a large portion of this town that needs sidewalks installed

1396
01:46:43,370 --> 01:46:51,030
and we don't have the money to install sidewalks. So, Ergo, the private road, although I understand

1397
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:58,910
the viewpoint of the applicant's attorney. As far as trees, for those that don't know me, I have

1398
01:46:58,910 --> 01:47:04,870
a bachelor's assigned some both horticulture of forestry and I am a old-time master gardener

1399
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:15,830
and I am a tree hover. On the other hand, this property is not a managed forest. It is predominantly

1400
01:47:16,590 --> 01:47:26,710
what we call volunteer and junk trees. And another one of my pet peeves is we constantly go out

1401
01:47:26,710 --> 01:47:34,470
of our way to drive homeowners, builders, crazy about saving junk trees.

1402
01:47:35,350 --> 01:47:42,150
And meantime, a storm comes through $2 million houses or $1 million houses get built.

1403
01:47:42,670 --> 01:47:47,270
The trees come down and we've now put more of a burden on a homeowner.

1404
01:47:47,890 --> 01:47:55,390
In addition, I don't think we should put a builder, a developer, regardless of how many millions

1405
01:47:55,390 --> 01:48:01,410
people are making in the position of selling a high-end home, which obviously these will

1406
01:48:01,410 --> 01:48:08,650
be given the acreage. And then that homeowner has to argue with the town of taking down

1407
01:48:09,110 --> 01:48:15,270
we have three D's, we have three R's and recycle, reduce, reuse, recycle. We have three D's

1408
01:48:15,270 --> 01:48:23,930
and trees, disease, dying, and dangerous. So I would just ask Mr. Davis if that's the

1409
01:48:23,930 --> 01:48:31,030
person to use common sense. I happen to think there's a lot of problems with both the

1410
01:48:31,030 --> 01:48:36,690
state ordinance and the township ordinance on that matter. And I also would suggest that

1411
01:48:37,050 --> 01:48:43,390
we remember that the climate is changing and a lot of the wildlife and birds are not migrating.

1412
01:48:44,370 --> 01:48:52,830
So we are a town of primarily deciduous trees. We need Mr. Davis to take into account wherever

1413
01:48:52,830 --> 01:48:57,070
wherever we can to install healthy ever greens,

1414
01:48:57,490 --> 01:49:00,950
not just deciduous flowering trees

1415
01:49:00,950 --> 01:49:04,150
throughout the whole development, let alone the homes.

1416
01:49:05,790 --> 01:49:07,970
I don't know when you'll be addressing lighting,

1417
01:49:08,130 --> 01:49:09,590
but I'm gonna go on record now

1418
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:13,950
that a lot of the new developments we've approved.

1419
01:49:16,340 --> 01:49:17,690
Talk about light pollution.

1420
01:49:19,030 --> 01:49:20,250
It's outrageous.

1421
01:49:20,250 --> 01:49:27,550
So I would just make sure that we take that in mind when we are putting in

1422
01:49:27,550 --> 01:49:34,170
street lights, not just the actual houses but the street lights. We built that

1423
01:49:34,170 --> 01:49:40,790
big monstrosity out on Lanola and we don't have any caps on top of all those

1424
01:49:40,790 --> 01:49:46,290
street lights for all that housing out there. So I would also ask us to pay

1425
01:49:46,290 --> 01:49:53,570
attention to that parking. I want to make sure that we take proper parking into account

1426
01:49:53,570 --> 01:49:59,410
in this. We traditionally have had a problem and it's not getting any better and council

1427
01:49:59,410 --> 01:50:05,430
is just keeps waiting and waiting. Let's push it down the road. But we build houses. We

1428
01:50:05,430 --> 01:50:14,270
have two car garages. We have driveways that accommodate two to four cars and then what

1429
01:50:14,270 --> 01:50:19,770
do. They park the cars on the street and then the people can't get through. God forbid a fire truck

1430
01:50:19,770 --> 01:50:25,070
has to go through or the police and that kind of factors in with the sidewalks. People need a

1431
01:50:25,070 --> 01:50:33,050
place to walk. We need to get, I hate to say this given MAGGO, but we need to encourage people to

1432
01:50:33,050 --> 01:50:38,970
be outside walking and enjoying, you know, whatever physical activity they can get and they certainly

1433
01:50:38,970 --> 01:50:43,610
can't do it walking on Creek Road. So thank you for your time, and thank you for your service,

1434
01:50:44,050 --> 01:50:48,490
and thank you to gentlemen as usual doing an outstanding job. I appreciate it.

1435
01:50:49,090 --> 01:50:51,290
Thank you. Anyone else?

1436
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:00,800
Good evening, sir, and welcome. Can I have your full name

1437
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:07,600
slowly in your address? Yes. Mark, Pencierro, 109, Colonial Avenue. More stand?

1438
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:12,660
I don't want to beat the dead horse. Yes, yes, yes, sir.

1439
01:51:12,660 --> 01:51:15,920
You raise your hand. Do you swear from the test going to give us any of the truth?

1440
01:51:16,440 --> 01:51:17,200
Yes, sir. Go ahead, sir.

1441
01:51:17,540 --> 01:51:21,380
Okay, so I'm trying not to be the dead horse, but I can't help it here.

1442
01:51:21,900 --> 01:51:27,280
And I really have a lot of concern about this pervious roadway and the additional maintenance

1443
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:33,540
that's going to be required. Now, we all know AI never makes a mistake, but I'm going to read a couple

1444
01:51:33,540 --> 01:51:40,520
of things searching. I can tell you this. Hold on, Mr. Barron, asking. It's public comment.

1445
01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:44,340
that. He could, he could say whatever he wants to say. If you want to see, I just

1446
01:51:44,340 --> 01:51:49,300
looked up an a anus but they prompted me. I mean I, he can't say that. What if he

1447
01:51:49,300 --> 01:51:53,960
said, I, I did some research for I got here tonight, and this is what I did

1448
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:55,560
I don't know what he's doing.

1449
01:51:57,400 --> 01:51:59,600
He's a late, he's a late, he's a late.

1450
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:00,040
He's a late, he's a late.

1451
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:00,820
The first one disputed?

1452
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:01,780
You can dispute it.

1453
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:03,760
Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold it, hold it, hold it.

1454
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:05,280
What does it time please?

1455
01:52:05,420 --> 01:52:07,700
So I mean, I saw you motion behind him.

1456
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:09,780
So he's a late person, it's public comment.

1457
01:52:10,480 --> 01:52:13,860
It could be, we've all been involved in public comment where the applicants

1458
01:52:13,860 --> 01:52:18,460
council will say, hey, they just said A and B. I'd prefer that nobody heard A and

1459
01:52:18,460 --> 01:52:22,920
B and you have to not consider that.

1460
01:52:23,380 --> 01:52:27,960
So is your concern right now? Are you stopping this member from the public to continue his comments?

1461
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:33,400
How? It's not his comments. There's AI's comments. It's GROC. It's Claude. It's Harvey. I don't know what it is.

1462
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:37,960
I don't know what it is. Can I just, can I please speak on this? Okay.

1463
01:52:38,440 --> 01:52:46,080
So are we accepting testimony from GROC or whatever, a chat GPT or Gemini? I don't know what he's going to talk about.

1464
01:52:46,260 --> 01:52:49,000
No, once we talk about it, you asked me to explain my judgment.

1465
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:52,500
You can say that and you can challenge the credibility of it, but once it's out here

1466
01:52:52,500 --> 01:52:57,760
I don't know where it's coming from. Are we accepting this as some kind of expert report because AI is telling us something?

1467
01:52:58,260 --> 01:53:01,560
Can we have a pro can we have a proffer? What are we why are we using AI?

1468
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:02,940
What are we gonna?

1469
01:53:03,820 --> 01:53:07,220
Everybody does and that's not a good excuse for any so so let me ask your question

1470
01:53:07,220 --> 01:53:11,760
But it's also no different than Google. He can say what he wants and if it's not true, you could tell me

1471
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:14,760
Is your question? Are you? Are you a me ask question without regard to AI?

1472
01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:19,740
Are you able to make comments based on your research before you came up to this microphone?

1473
01:53:19,820 --> 01:53:19,940
Yes.

1474
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:25,900
Are you able to make comments that are probative to your concerns without reading off your phone?

1475
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:26,200
Yeah.

1476
01:53:26,440 --> 01:53:26,800
Okay.

1477
01:53:27,180 --> 01:53:28,640
Can you do that for me?

1478
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:29,940
Can you share with me?

1479
01:53:30,180 --> 01:53:33,240
Am I accurate so that you did a little bit of research before I came up here tonight?

1480
01:53:33,540 --> 01:53:37,440
And then I ask you to give, you raise your right hand and I ask you to tell the truth tonight.

1481
01:53:37,540 --> 01:53:38,000
Is that accurate?

1482
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:39,960
Are you going to do that, sir?

1483
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:40,320
Yes.

1484
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:40,660
Okay.

1485
01:53:40,660 --> 01:53:52,340
Based on your research, your informal research, can you tell me what if any concerns you have or anything you want to tell me about this without making a specific reference to AI or a specific AI platform?

1486
01:53:52,660 --> 01:53:54,140
Okay, is that a factor in Mr. Baranowski?

1487
01:53:54,860 --> 01:53:55,840
Sounds pretty good Mr.

1488
01:53:56,220 --> 01:54:02,840
Okay, so I also just want to place my objection on the record to the objection is just not a standard, right?

1489
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:07,260
And we're not going to start pretending that we have these imaginary standards on who gets to testify at our meetings.

1490
01:54:07,820 --> 01:54:09,460
File on ethics complain if you don't like it.

1491
01:54:09,460 --> 01:54:18,420
understood, understood. Go ahead sir. Okay, so my research has pointed out that the use

1492
01:54:18,420 --> 01:54:24,840
of sand in snowy conditions will have an impact and negative impact on the

1493
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:32,480
pervice material. Okay, this and I know in Morstown we use sand when it snows,

1494
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:38,720
all right, and we have crowns in our road so that sand is going to move into the

1495
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:45,760
pervious, which will decrease, I assume, the perviousness of that material.

1496
01:54:46,380 --> 01:54:46,460
Okay?

1497
01:54:46,760 --> 01:54:54,080
So, I think now we're getting into a situation where whose fault is it that the system

1498
01:54:54,080 --> 01:55:01,860
isn't working and we're going to have to have additional or changes into how we do maintenance

1499
01:55:01,860 --> 01:55:07,060
during snow just on this street because we can't use sand on this street.

1500
01:55:08,520 --> 01:55:11,440
So that's a big concern that I have, and I think it gets back.

1501
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:17,620
I think this being a township road is just going to cause a lot of problems.

1502
01:55:18,200 --> 01:55:18,940
Thank you, sir.

1503
01:55:19,160 --> 01:55:19,480
Thank you.

1504
01:55:19,900 --> 01:55:23,780
I'd also, at this point, respectfully ask for a two-minute break if I could, please.

1505
01:55:24,300 --> 01:55:24,940
Thank you.

1506
01:57:34,790 --> 01:57:37,170
Thank you, everyone, I appreciate the courtesy.

1507
01:57:37,470 --> 01:57:39,490
Okay, any additional public comment?

1508
01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:42,660
Okay, hearing none.

1509
01:57:43,340 --> 01:57:46,860
At this time, Mr. Barranowski, certainly the applicant's not compelled to.

1510
01:57:47,060 --> 01:57:50,440
Do you feel inclined to respond to any public comments at this time?

1511
01:57:50,440 --> 01:58:02,720
Yes, I'd like, if I may have Mr. Renaro, just address the public comment with regard to concerns about well-water impacts and the low-lying property, so can you comment to Mr. Renaro?

1512
01:58:03,180 --> 01:58:07,040
Yeah, I think generally the project complies with DEP requirements.

1513
01:58:07,280 --> 01:58:16,880
We do have a relatively complex permit with the DEP, and everything that was discussed by not everything.

1514
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:20,500
But some of the items discussed by the neighbors, including fish and wildlife,

1515
01:58:21,260 --> 01:58:27,180
well water, and flood plain, are all part of our application to not only the DEP,

1516
01:58:27,420 --> 01:58:29,800
but also the Mr. Nol and part of this application.

1517
01:58:30,340 --> 01:58:35,080
So I don't see any negative impacts to adjacent well water and we're complying with regulations

1518
01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:39,920
that are intended specifically to protect neighbors from any problems.

1519
01:58:40,460 --> 01:58:44,380
Specifically about well water, too, sometimes you're concerned with well water that there's

1520
01:58:44,380 --> 01:58:45,980
too many wells in one location,

1521
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:49,320
and this project is gonna be connected to public waters.

1522
01:58:49,500 --> 01:58:50,600
We don't have that concern there.

1523
01:58:51,220 --> 01:58:53,680
Fish and Wildlife is part of our approvals with the DEP.

1524
01:58:53,900 --> 01:58:54,760
That's DEP jurisdiction.

1525
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:59,060
In addition, we are set back significantly

1526
01:58:59,700 --> 01:59:01,060
from the rank focus creek.

1527
01:59:01,220 --> 01:59:03,720
There's 150 wetlands buffer that we're respecting

1528
01:59:04,260 --> 01:59:06,320
and repairing buffers from the rank focus creek.

1529
01:59:06,740 --> 01:59:10,100
So a lot of the concerns about species along the rank focus

1530
01:59:10,100 --> 01:59:12,400
are protected by the DEP

1531
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:15,880
and by the fact that we're set back from the road.

1532
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:18,940
I'm sorry, from the creek, okay, right.

1533
01:59:20,260 --> 01:59:23,720
Okay, and I appreciate the comments from the public.

1534
01:59:23,900 --> 01:59:25,820
I hope we've addressed those concerns.

1535
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:29,160
I understand comment about light pollution and so forth.

1536
01:59:29,700 --> 01:59:30,880
We will be reviewing those.

1537
01:59:31,120 --> 01:59:33,560
The street lights are ordinance requirement,

1538
01:59:33,880 --> 01:59:36,320
but certainly, I think there was a comment Mr. Noles

1539
01:59:36,320 --> 01:59:37,620
that are for a night light test.

1540
01:59:37,980 --> 01:59:40,600
We'll certainly comply with that

1541
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:42,340
and we'll work on the HOA documentation.

1542
01:59:43,580 --> 01:59:47,160
I do also in response, not only to public comment,

1543
01:59:47,320 --> 01:59:50,000
but to the board's comments and to the colleague we've had

1544
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:50,500
this evening.

1545
01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:54,880
We don't want to leave you to your deliberations tonight

1546
01:59:54,880 --> 01:59:55,840
with a question marks.

1547
01:59:55,980 --> 01:59:58,880
I think the concern that's driving the discussion

1548
01:59:58,880 --> 01:59:59,980
about the fungmen.

1549
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,260
The functionality of the stormwater management system is its proximity to the roadway and concerns about overlapping maintenance responsibility and cost and so forth. I did have reservations about putting more burdens on this HOA, which needs to be formed regardless. It will have to have responsibility for the stormwater management system. I think it would be in everybody's best interest.

1550
02:00:29,260 --> 02:00:37,420
and responding to your concerns and your professionals' comments, as well as the comments from the public.

1551
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:44,400
If we just propose to make the road private and it will put the obligation for the road maintenance

1552
02:00:44,400 --> 02:00:52,060
and for snow plowing and for stormwater management system maintenance, we'll put it on the HOA.

1553
02:00:52,200 --> 02:00:58,260
This way there's no question in your minds about any obligations being unintentionally

1554
02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:03,420
unintentionally create it that would voice these obligations on the township.

1555
02:01:03,820 --> 02:01:08,680
Obviously, the people who will be living here will still be taxpayers and so forth.

1556
02:01:08,880 --> 02:01:13,980
There will be some services that would still be provided to them, such as trash pick up.

1557
02:01:14,300 --> 02:01:17,580
However, that gets worked out, Mr. Abrant, you know, best on that.

1558
02:01:18,900 --> 02:01:23,780
That'll still be a part and parcel of servicing the residents who we live here.

1559
02:01:23,780 --> 02:01:29,240
but I think it would make sense based on your comments and questions tonight.

1560
02:01:29,460 --> 02:01:34,880
If we propose just to make the roadway private, which will, as Mr. Null indicated,

1561
02:01:35,060 --> 02:01:36,580
will result in some redesign.

1562
02:01:36,580 --> 02:01:44,620
It may actually make the loss even a little bigger, but we'd like to propose that the roadway

1563
02:01:44,620 --> 02:01:49,760
would be private and this way, I think it takes that concern off your shoulders.

1564
02:01:49,760 --> 02:02:10,700
I appreciate that. How do we Mr. Noel and Mr. Davis, if you could turn that microphone on and slide it over to Mr. Noel? How do we approve even preliminary a subdivision plan that we don't have in front of us if the roads are going to be private, the roads are going to be private?

1565
02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:12,820
I don't think you can.

1566
02:02:15,730 --> 02:02:17,730
What are you approving?

1567
02:02:18,230 --> 02:02:23,310
So, like I'm only caught, because earlier he said if it goes private, the dimensions

1568
02:02:23,310 --> 02:02:27,830
are going to change, the lots will change, that there's going to be some form of change

1569
02:02:27,830 --> 02:02:28,130
to it.

1570
02:02:28,210 --> 02:02:29,070
It may not be that significant.

1571
02:02:29,230 --> 02:02:31,770
You even just said that some of the lots might get a little bigger.

1572
02:02:32,370 --> 02:02:41,040
I'm not looking to throw any hurdle, but if you got to the mountaintop and it was private

1573
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:46,140
and it got approved. It's not even the subdivision plan that's marked as a one or what we submitted in a review.

1574
02:02:46,240 --> 02:02:54,120
There's going to be some type of even if it's minor alteration of that and it could be that we carry to get to get it.

1575
02:02:54,880 --> 02:02:58,400
Something like that or it could be, I mean, I don't know what it is, but how do we,

1576
02:02:59,080 --> 02:03:03,640
how do we approve a subdivision that we don't have even if it's a different modification?

1577
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:13,040
Well, it's still a 24-unit, 23-new, plus one existing, you know, I'll defer to Mr.

1578
02:03:13,180 --> 02:03:22,140
Noel, but if the change is just going to be, you know, narrowing the width of the

1579
02:03:22,140 --> 02:03:29,520
road so they don't have to deal with the right-of-way issue, it's still going to be largely

1580
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:34,120
like this, at the size of the plan, the lines are going to move in eighth of an inch.

1581
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:40,260
It's a technicality, and it's more of a legal question than an engineering question.

1582
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:41,180
But in my years...

1583
02:03:41,180 --> 02:03:42,640
That's why I was trying to put it over there, buddy.

1584
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:43,020
Thank you.

1585
02:03:44,460 --> 02:03:45,820
But in my years of...

1586
02:03:45,820 --> 02:03:51,580
And in planners' issue, my years of experience, you have to show, you know, you've got setbacks

1587
02:03:51,580 --> 02:03:54,860
that are going to change, everything is going to change from that perspective.

1588
02:03:54,860 --> 02:03:56,100
and the stripper is right,

1589
02:03:56,520 --> 02:03:58,260
if the plan probably won't look much different,

1590
02:03:58,800 --> 02:04:01,100
but on paper it's much different.

1591
02:04:01,880 --> 02:04:03,820
But Chris, would you agree that all the changes

1592
02:04:03,820 --> 02:04:07,060
would make the prop less intense as far as setbacks?

1593
02:04:07,340 --> 02:04:08,600
The right-of-way wouldn't be as large.

1594
02:04:09,320 --> 02:04:11,740
Everything would get less intense from that standpoint.

1595
02:04:12,900 --> 02:04:16,020
Everything's shown now conservatively, conservatively.

1596
02:04:16,420 --> 02:04:17,900
So if you have a private development,

1597
02:04:18,740 --> 02:04:21,660
everything would be a smaller right-of-way.

1598
02:04:21,800 --> 02:04:23,260
It would be a whole kind of,

1599
02:04:23,260 --> 02:04:28,300
Where's the property line going to go to between two houses on either side of the road? Where's that go?

1600
02:04:28,980 --> 02:04:33,360
Where is it? It would always be it would make the properties larger and more compliant

1601
02:04:33,360 --> 02:04:41,380
Where is the property line between two houses across the street from each other? Where is that property? The center line of the pavement?

1602
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:42,920
The center line with an easement

1603
02:04:43,780 --> 02:04:44,720
but I mean

1604
02:04:45,500 --> 02:04:48,980
But that's easy for us to address as a condition of approval in my opinion

1605
02:04:49,920 --> 02:04:52,820
So instead of a 50 foot right away you'd have a 50 foot

1606
02:04:53,260 --> 02:05:00,120
white easement. Yes. Or maybe even less since we don't have to comply with RSI with the

1607
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:07,480
road with change then. No. No. Okay. So the geometry that you see here other than property

1608
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:13,480
lines other than rights of way really would be exactly the same. But we would not be proposing

1609
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:21,780
any design changes other than lines that are already imaginary really. So what you're talking

1610
02:05:21,780 --> 02:05:27,500
about is changing the lot lines versus changing the design of what's submitted here. Is that

1611
02:05:27,880 --> 02:05:32,000
that I'm maybe oversimplifying? Yeah, and actually changing the name of the lot line from

1612
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:37,120
a right-of-way to an easement that would really be the as far as I can see the only change.

1613
02:05:37,400 --> 02:05:41,380
And of course, you know, the discussion about trash collection and those things would have to be

1614
02:05:41,380 --> 02:05:47,200
discussed. But the change as far as the geometry and the engineering of the plan does not change

1615
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:51,720
other than changing a right-of-way line to easement line in the way I'm looking at it.

1616
02:05:51,800 --> 02:05:55,640
Maybe I'm looking at it to take the lot line to the middle of the road and then there would

1617
02:05:55,640 --> 02:06:02,280
be an easement for everybody that's entering an easement to use the road and the sidewalks on

1618
02:06:02,280 --> 02:06:08,820
people's properties. Well, yeah. He just brought up the sidewalk issue. Wouldn't the road be a

1619
02:06:08,820 --> 02:06:16,280
common area? You would still have an association. Wouldn't the road be a common area? It probably

1620
02:06:16,280 --> 02:06:20,120
It wouldn't be the same width, so rather than an easement, I think we've seen it

1621
02:06:20,120 --> 02:06:27,260
before where the road becomes a common area that the association would own.

1622
02:06:27,560 --> 02:06:31,080
And my point is that those details are easily addressed.

1623
02:06:31,200 --> 02:06:31,900
I agree with you.

1624
02:06:31,940 --> 02:06:33,440
I think they are easily addressed.

1625
02:06:33,720 --> 02:06:34,520
You can be additional proof.

1626
02:06:34,740 --> 02:06:38,200
I think tabling this would be a little bit of a waste of the board's time.

1627
02:06:38,340 --> 02:06:39,820
Yeah, and here's my one other question.

1628
02:06:40,020 --> 02:06:43,640
I agree, right up until we get it wrong, right?

1629
02:06:43,820 --> 02:06:45,080
Right up until I don't get it right.

1630
02:06:45,080 --> 02:06:51,020
And I do the resolution and we have a plan and it gets sold to developer and then they come back and they said

1631
02:06:51,020 --> 02:06:52,420
You guys did it wrong

1632
02:06:53,300 --> 02:06:54,060
So I

1633
02:06:55,380 --> 02:06:56,980
There's a component preliminary

1634
02:06:57,960 --> 02:07:04,480
What about sidewalk is there and change with the sidewalk requirement if this is okay

1635
02:07:05,460 --> 02:07:06,580
so if

1636
02:07:06,580 --> 02:07:09,380
If it's private and

1637
02:07:09,380 --> 02:07:14,460
And if you don't follow RSI-S, then the town is not obligated to take it over ever in

1638
02:07:14,460 --> 02:07:14,860
the future.

1639
02:07:15,640 --> 02:07:19,880
So if they want to eventually turn it over to the town, I don't know if that's acceptable,

1640
02:07:20,080 --> 02:07:21,100
not acceptable, whatever.

1641
02:07:21,680 --> 02:07:25,180
But I would not recommend changing any of the RSI-S standards.

1642
02:07:25,900 --> 02:07:31,100
And if they're going to have a 50-foot, make it an open space lot, or whatever you want

1643
02:07:31,100 --> 02:07:37,000
to call common lot, or an easement, then effectively it's pretty much the same plan except for

1644
02:07:37,000 --> 02:07:38,460
there are a lot lying down the middle of the road.

1645
02:07:40,440 --> 02:07:41,980
With an easement, it's going to go over.

1646
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:45,960
So the roadway itself, if you go private,

1647
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:47,900
the roadway dimensions are not going to change.

1648
02:07:49,960 --> 02:07:51,180
No, would not change.

1649
02:07:51,680 --> 02:07:51,840
OK.

1650
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:53,780
In fact, no.

1651
02:07:53,900 --> 02:07:55,340
Traditionally, what happens if it goes private,

1652
02:07:55,500 --> 02:07:57,740
you don't have to do RSI-S, you make it thinner.

1653
02:07:58,300 --> 02:08:00,280
Well, actually, we still have to comply with RSI-S.

1654
02:08:00,340 --> 02:08:01,820
I think you've been private, right?

1655
02:08:01,920 --> 02:08:06,900
Chris, we have to comply with RSI-S, even for private.

1656
02:08:06,900 --> 02:08:09,000
Well, they've agreed to do it, so it's not an issue.

1657
02:08:09,740 --> 02:08:14,240
Okay, so somebody articulate for me the condition of approval.

1658
02:08:14,300 --> 02:08:22,620
The condition of approval would be the submission of an acceptable form of subdivision plan with a private road.

1659
02:08:23,200 --> 02:08:29,320
I think it's just a revised subdivision plan that shows a private road instead of dedication of a public right away.

1660
02:08:29,980 --> 02:08:30,360
Great.

1661
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:33,980
with either an easement or the private road being

1662
02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:37,860
owned by the association a lot, all to the association.

1663
02:08:39,180 --> 02:08:40,320
Can I say something?

1664
02:08:42,390 --> 02:08:43,630
Now you still have to change a lot.

1665
02:08:43,810 --> 02:08:45,890
Well, if you have an easement, you don't have to change a lot.

1666
02:08:46,070 --> 02:08:47,490
Well, no, you have to change a lot lines

1667
02:08:47,490 --> 02:08:49,590
because the easements could have been easement

1668
02:08:49,590 --> 02:08:50,850
from somebody's property.

1669
02:08:51,290 --> 02:08:53,730
Well, it would be a common piece of property

1670
02:08:53,730 --> 02:08:54,390
there to the whole.

1671
02:08:54,710 --> 02:08:56,610
Right, but they would go...

1672
02:08:58,230 --> 02:08:59,550
In back in history,

1673
02:08:59,550 --> 02:09:03,410
lot lines used to go to the center of the road all the time and then the right

1674
02:09:03,410 --> 02:09:06,250
of ways came in so it'd be just like that.

1675
02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:11,820
Yeah I have a comment so so this

1676
02:09:11,820 --> 02:09:16,240
this design we have one design we have two design exceptions are looking for

1677
02:09:16,240 --> 02:09:21,140
here one is no sidewalk in the in the cul-de-sac the other is 50 feet between

1678
02:09:21,140 --> 02:09:25,920
trees right the reason we're talking about the road is because our Township

1679
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:30,880
manager God bless my love I wasn't in a meeting with our public worst person who

1680
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:33,880
said he was going to accept the road if it was dedicated.

1681
02:09:34,260 --> 02:09:36,260
That's what he told you in a workshop.

1682
02:09:36,520 --> 02:09:39,260
So I'm sort of struggling like, how do we get here?

1683
02:09:39,940 --> 02:09:41,160
Well, it's not a perfect process.

1684
02:09:41,640 --> 02:09:43,380
I mean, the reality of it is the work

1685
02:09:43,380 --> 02:09:46,820
that everybody does to get here is to try to eliminate issues.

1686
02:09:47,060 --> 02:09:49,300
And in heaven, but he doesn't try to accommodate us, right?

1687
02:09:49,500 --> 02:09:50,940
By the same, we're going to go private road.

1688
02:09:51,580 --> 02:09:52,620
They're trying to accommodate us.

1689
02:09:52,700 --> 02:09:54,880
And we're making them redesign the whole thing.

1690
02:09:55,020 --> 02:09:56,300
I'm not making anybody redesign it.

1691
02:09:56,420 --> 02:09:59,260
All I'm saying is that whatever we get and we articulate it,

1692
02:09:59,260 --> 02:10:04,360
I just want to make sure that everybody's comfortable with it and we go private that's fine

1693
02:10:04,360 --> 02:10:07,980
So I do the condition of approval and I circulate the courtesy review resolution

1694
02:10:07,980 --> 02:10:12,420
And it's not like were we at the same meeting because that's not what I heard right no, I understand your concern about

1695
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:13,940
I have the same concern is

1696
02:10:14,620 --> 02:10:17,180
My concern is you're changing the design on the on the phone

1697
02:10:17,180 --> 02:10:19,040
I also think that just Mr. Aborant

1698
02:10:19,560 --> 02:10:22,800
Summarizing and I appreciate that and Mr. Nolto that basically it's the same plan

1699
02:10:22,800 --> 02:10:27,720
But we're not gonna have a right of way we're gonna have an easement and we just need a revised subdivision plan

1700
02:10:27,720 --> 02:10:30,480
that shows that easement as opposed to the right-of-way.

1701
02:10:30,780 --> 02:10:32,040
Is that properly articulated?

1702
02:10:33,120 --> 02:10:33,560
Yes.

1703
02:10:33,940 --> 02:10:34,120
Okay.

1704
02:10:34,860 --> 02:10:36,000
I'm okay with that.

1705
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:39,820
Like intellectually and legally being able to do that.

1706
02:10:39,920 --> 02:10:42,820
So it isn't necessarily on the flight, like the subdivision plan.

1707
02:10:42,900 --> 02:10:44,200
It's the same subdivision plan.

1708
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:47,800
It's just now, it won't be a right-of-way that is owned by the township.

1709
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:55,140
It will be a private road that is owned by the HOA, and there'll be an easement

1710
02:10:55,140 --> 02:10:55,600
provided.

1711
02:10:56,620 --> 02:10:59,840
No change in lot lines, no change in, is that what we're saying?

1712
02:10:59,920 --> 02:11:03,680
No changes, a lot of lines would extend them to the center.

1713
02:11:03,760 --> 02:11:04,840
Yeah, that's the only change.

1714
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:05,840
Because it's an easement.

1715
02:11:05,940 --> 02:11:09,900
Yeah, the only change is now the lot line will go to the middle of the previous road.

1716
02:11:10,180 --> 02:11:14,840
The HOA will have responsibility for the road and the stormwater management conveyance system.

1717
02:11:15,420 --> 02:11:15,440
Right.

1718
02:11:15,680 --> 02:11:18,160
I mean, I think you as an applicant are doing everything you can here.

1719
02:11:18,280 --> 02:11:24,180
My concern is we're making it too much, and I never am in that position on this board,

1720
02:11:24,180 --> 02:11:27,000
Or by the way, it's a great new grant.

1721
02:11:27,400 --> 02:11:29,220
Are we all settled now at this point in time?

1722
02:11:29,600 --> 02:11:31,340
At this point in time, I'm closing.

1723
02:11:32,460 --> 02:11:35,900
I just want to, I just have one more comment from Mr. Null.

1724
02:11:36,300 --> 02:11:36,980
I see it.

1725
02:11:37,420 --> 02:11:37,520
Hi.

1726
02:11:38,280 --> 02:11:38,560
Go ahead.

1727
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:41,560
So Mr. Abbott, as far as snow plowing trash pick up,

1728
02:11:42,080 --> 02:11:43,120
what happens then?

1729
02:11:44,160 --> 02:11:46,000
I think the same with other private streets

1730
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:48,460
of the reimbursement statute.

1731
02:11:49,200 --> 02:11:50,460
So we deal with that all the time.

1732
02:11:50,760 --> 02:11:51,440
OK, good.

1733
02:11:52,500 --> 02:11:54,460
I just want to make sure that was on the record.

1734
02:11:54,840 --> 02:11:55,700
Now are we finished?

1735
02:11:56,140 --> 02:11:56,620
I'm finished.

1736
02:11:56,900 --> 02:11:56,960
Yes.

1737
02:11:57,180 --> 02:11:57,400
Okay.

1738
02:11:58,100 --> 02:12:00,620
You have something you were excited before I close comments?

1739
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:05,340
I just want to make sure, anything further, can we summarize and get to a vote?

1740
02:12:05,640 --> 02:12:06,620
Please summarize and go to a vote.

1741
02:12:07,460 --> 02:12:18,220
I want to close the comments on this project and would you please read a summary of what

1742
02:12:18,220 --> 02:12:18,660
we need?

1743
02:12:19,020 --> 02:12:19,220
Sure.

1744
02:12:19,220 --> 02:12:21,120
Well, we need to consider.

1745
02:12:27,210 --> 02:12:28,130
Thank you, everyone.

1746
02:12:28,290 --> 02:12:31,390
The applicants come before tonight seeking preliminary major subdivision.

1747
02:12:32,350 --> 02:12:37,310
They've been very clear with regard to the number of lots, and I'm not going to get into all of that.

1748
02:12:37,690 --> 02:12:41,170
The applicant has requested two waivers.

1749
02:12:41,170 --> 02:12:42,930
There's no variances necessary.

1750
02:12:43,470 --> 02:12:49,050
One's a partial waiver with regard to the sidewalk will only be on one side of the roadway.

1751
02:12:49,050 --> 02:12:55,050
it'll be the internal roadway where the loop is and will not extend down from

1752
02:12:55,050 --> 02:12:58,170
Creek Road will not extend down to the cul-de-sac, but it'll go from Creek Road

1753
02:12:58,170 --> 02:13:02,390
to the internal loop on one side. That's a partial waiver. Also the applicant

1754
02:13:02,390 --> 02:13:05,670
request a waiver of the street tree minimum distance and they put their

1755
02:13:05,670 --> 02:13:09,750
personal records with regard to that and the various stands of trees and what

1756
02:13:09,750 --> 02:13:14,750
necessitates that. The applicant's agreed to comply with the review letters with

1757
02:13:14,750 --> 02:13:18,330
the exceptions that we've noted in the meeting tonight and that I'm not going to

1758
02:13:18,330 --> 02:13:24,030
review, but we've the exceptions with regard to the one fire hydrant that's not on the

1759
02:13:24,030 --> 02:13:26,370
loop and various others.

1760
02:13:27,610 --> 02:13:34,010
The applicants also agreed to point of sale disclosures that will detail the responsibilities

1761
02:13:34,010 --> 02:13:43,090
of the HOA and the obligations of the HOA and each of the members, and that will include

1762
02:13:43,090 --> 02:13:49,030
the identification of existing wetlands and specified lots being advised in the future,

1763
02:13:49,290 --> 02:13:51,810
they will be restricted in development.

1764
02:13:52,650 --> 02:13:57,850
Applicants agreed to comply with the tree ordinance true placement plan, including Payment

1765
02:13:57,850 --> 02:14:04,110
and Loo, and has also indicated a willingness and intent to try to bolster the replacement

1766
02:14:04,110 --> 02:14:06,910
tree planning in a manner acceptable to our board plan or an engineer.

1767
02:14:07,790 --> 02:14:10,590
Applicants agreed to comply with our OSIS, the board to all parking also.

1768
02:14:10,590 --> 02:14:16,670
Americans also agreed that all homeowner's association documents include them not limited to the O&M manual

1769
02:14:17,390 --> 02:14:22,350
capital improvement plan capital improvement budget all docs with regard to the HOA will be submitted for

1770
02:14:23,410 --> 02:14:27,470
Review and approval of the municipal solicitor and the board professionals

1771
02:14:31,590 --> 02:14:32,110
The

1772
02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:40,340
happens also agreed that now this is this is private so no parking on one side. So what are we doing with that?

1773
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:43,500
I think we're still gonna show

1774
02:14:43,500 --> 02:14:48,020
Okay, so still do note we'll still do no parking on one side with street signs

1775
02:14:48,080 --> 02:14:50,120
consistent with the ordnance standard.

1776
02:14:51,200 --> 02:14:56,520
I can also agree with regard to the replacement trees that they are going to use native species

1777
02:14:57,100 --> 02:14:59,400
in a manner suitable to the board planner.

1778
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:02,160
All right so far. Okay.

1779
02:15:06,420 --> 02:15:19,800
Applicants also agreed that they will place signage in a manner recommended by Mr. Noel with regard to the lots with restricted with restricted areas and developments with what lands.

1780
02:15:20,580 --> 02:15:27,040
Applicants also agreed to the extent that dealing with the postmaster, to the extent that

1781
02:15:27,040 --> 02:15:31,920
a cluster is proposed, that they'll need to design and put in place pull-off lanes for

1782
02:15:31,920 --> 02:15:34,880
that cluster in a manner accessible to the board engineer and board planner.

1783
02:15:37,200 --> 02:15:42,040
Applicants also agreed with regard to the existing home that, while it will remain on well,

1784
02:15:42,400 --> 02:15:51,080
that water service will be taken up to that existing lot line for potential future connection

1785
02:15:51,080 --> 02:15:51,940
The

1786
02:15:54,790 --> 02:16:03,310
applicant agreed that the roadway will be a private roadway, and that the applicant

1787
02:16:03,310 --> 02:16:10,550
agrees to the submission of a revised subdivision plan depicting that private roadway in the

1788
02:16:11,210 --> 02:16:15,870
identical dimensions as exists now with the right of way, which will show the extension

1789
02:16:15,870 --> 02:16:18,830
of the lot lines to the middle of that 50-foot easement,

1790
02:16:20,860 --> 02:16:22,300
and that will all be in a manner

1791
02:16:22,300 --> 02:16:24,220
that's accessible to the board planner and board engineer.

1792
02:16:26,890 --> 02:16:28,390
And I think, yeah, I might have already said this,

1793
02:16:28,470 --> 02:16:31,650
but the applicant agrees to fully comply with the township.

1794
02:16:32,990 --> 02:16:34,750
Oh, I didn't, applicant agrees

1795
02:16:34,750 --> 02:16:36,890
that it'll comply with the ordinance

1796
02:16:36,890 --> 02:16:38,830
with regard to reimbursement of the township

1797
02:16:38,830 --> 02:16:40,930
for trash recycle and snow on private roads.

1798
02:16:43,240 --> 02:16:43,640
Yes.

1799
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:45,160
I think that's, yeah, yeah.

1800
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:45,780
What did I say?

1801
02:16:48,240 --> 02:16:49,100
Well, I'm sorry.

1802
02:16:49,380 --> 02:16:51,200
The, the, the each away, the, the service

1803
02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:52,380
that you'll reimburse the township.

1804
02:16:52,460 --> 02:16:52,900
What did I say?

1805
02:16:54,480 --> 02:16:55,700
Oh, because they do it privately.

1806
02:16:56,180 --> 02:16:56,800
They do it privately.

1807
02:16:56,800 --> 02:16:58,680
They agree to the reimbursement.

1808
02:16:58,680 --> 02:17:02,760
They agree to comply with the reimbursement ordinance with regard to the private street.

1809
02:17:07,820 --> 02:17:10,040
Okay, all properly articulated, Mr. Bryanasky?

1810
02:17:10,180 --> 02:17:10,640
Yes, sir.

1811
02:17:10,940 --> 02:17:12,180
Mr. Noel, Mr. Davis?

1812
02:17:13,360 --> 02:17:17,680
Any questions from the board members with regard to the relief that I identified and the conditions that I identified?

1813
02:17:19,160 --> 02:17:21,540
Okay, Mr. Spirito, you are eligible to vote.

1814
02:17:21,700 --> 02:17:25,380
Mr. Driscoll, we appreciate your participation, but you won't be poll, Mr. Spirito, it gives us the full.

1815
02:17:26,460 --> 02:17:28,760
Because you're concerned, Mr. Mouse, that would give us our full nine.

1816
02:17:29,340 --> 02:17:31,440
Okay, board members, you've heard the summary.

1817
02:17:32,080 --> 02:17:34,560
I need a motion and a second to approve.

1818
02:17:35,220 --> 02:17:37,700
No, no, you can't, you as a board chair can't say to approve.

1819
02:17:37,800 --> 02:17:41,340
It's a motion, you need a motion and a second to approve or deny the application.

1820
02:17:42,760 --> 02:17:44,100
That's exactly what I meant.

1821
02:17:44,540 --> 02:17:45,460
Okay, and I know.

1822
02:17:46,040 --> 02:17:51,860
Mr. Chair, I would make a motion to approve consistent with the recap provided so

1823
02:17:51,860 --> 02:17:53,280
ably by Mr. Waleechco.

1824
02:17:53,820 --> 02:17:54,600
Second, Keating.

1825
02:18:00,270 --> 02:18:01,070
Mr. Aberrant.

1826
02:18:01,490 --> 02:18:01,650
Yes.

1827
02:18:01,650 --> 02:18:01,810
Yes.

1828
02:18:02,250 --> 02:18:03,570
Mr. Cara Burns?

1829
02:18:03,910 --> 02:18:04,090
Yes.

1830
02:18:04,750 --> 02:18:05,490
Mr. Thomas?

1831
02:18:06,010 --> 02:18:06,230
Yes.

1832
02:18:06,630 --> 02:18:07,630
Mr. McGuire?

1833
02:18:08,050 --> 02:18:08,290
Yes.

1834
02:18:08,710 --> 02:18:09,690
Mr. Marioucci?

1835
02:18:10,050 --> 02:18:10,270
Yes.

1836
02:18:10,910 --> 02:18:11,790
Mr. Petriello?

1837
02:18:12,190 --> 02:18:12,390
Yes.

1838
02:18:13,010 --> 02:18:13,770
Mr. Keating?

1839
02:18:14,070 --> 02:18:14,290
Yes.

1840
02:18:14,910 --> 02:18:16,190
Mr. Wasolowski?

1841
02:18:16,550 --> 02:18:16,770
Yes.

1842
02:18:17,270 --> 02:18:18,270
Mr. Spurrito?

1843
02:18:18,990 --> 02:18:19,210
Yes.

1844
02:18:21,670 --> 02:18:22,490
Thank you, everybody.

1845
02:18:22,950 --> 02:18:23,890
Thank you.

1846
02:18:25,070 --> 02:18:27,470
Mr. Lamont, I can't believe you didn't get to testify.

1847
02:18:27,910 --> 02:18:29,170
It's all the edge of my seat.

1848
02:18:37,270 --> 02:18:37,670
Mr.

1849
02:18:41,070 --> 02:18:47,370
Chair, would you enter, if there's no other, oh wait, wait, wait, I see we've got to get, we're still, we're still in our meeting.

1850
02:18:47,590 --> 02:18:51,690
Paddy, Miasella, just, just string, is there something you need to add, Paddy?

1851
02:18:54,390 --> 02:18:56,910
Oh, I was going to ask if you would entertain a motion to adjourn.

1852
02:18:58,920 --> 02:18:59,300
Second.

1853
02:18:59,300 --> 02:19:00,020
I.

1854
02:19:00,720 --> 02:19:01,820
We're out of here.