1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,800 of allegiance. Please rise. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,759 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 3 00:00:11,759 --> 00:00:14,240 United States of America and to the 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,359 republic for which it stands, one nation 5 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:20,480 under God, indivisible, with liberty and 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,790 justice for all. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,760 As always, thank you for the citizens 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,640 joining us here in the uh town chambers 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,200 tonight and also to those that are 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,280 following this meeting uh through the 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,280 live stream. Uh our first order of 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,360 business after the pledge is the 13 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,680 approval of the minutes and I ask each 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,120 commissioner to look over the minutes 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:51,029 and any notes you may have made. 16 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:53,520 We'll have a motion, a second, and then 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,440 discussion. If you have any edits or 18 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,280 amendments suggested, we'll do that 19 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,520 during the uh discussion, please. So, at 20 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,760 this point, is there a motion to approve 21 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,840 or disapprove the August minutes? 22 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,439 >> A motion to approve. 23 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:10,560 >> Is there a second? 24 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:11,200 >> Second. 25 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,200 >> Commissioner Buts. Is there any 26 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,040 discussion on amendments or edits or 27 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,510 corrections to the minutes? 28 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,510 Hearing 29 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,520 none. All those in favor of the motion 30 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,840 to approve the August 31 minutes of the 31 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,400 planning commission say I. I. 32 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,320 >> Those opposed. 33 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:36,400 >> Those who abstain due to absence. 34 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,400 The motion has carried. The minutes are 35 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,119 approved. The next order of business 36 00:01:41,119 --> 00:01:43,360 tonight is the public comments, citizen 37 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,920 comments. Um and the um criteria I wish 38 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,720 to um impose is that you'll be given 39 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,280 three minutes if you wish to speak and 40 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,680 the topic can be anything uh on the 41 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,000 agenda off the agenda anything with 42 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,399 regard to the town. I ask when you 43 00:02:00,399 --> 00:02:02,399 approach the microphone and Barney could 44 00:02:02,399 --> 00:02:04,079 you just make sure it's turned on for 45 00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:07,759 us. Uh thank you sir. Um, as you 46 00:02:07,759 --> 00:02:09,599 approach the podium in the microphone, I 47 00:02:09,599 --> 00:02:12,560 just simply ask for your full name and 48 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,560 whether you are a resident of the town 49 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,599 or not. I do not need your address. Uh, 50 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:19,680 just whether you are a resident or not. 51 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,920 So, with that, may I see a show of hands 52 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:23,920 of those interested in making a citizen 53 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,800 comment tonight? 54 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,720 Second request for any citizens 55 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,190 interested in citizen comment. 56 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,239 » Okay, there's one. I see you may come 57 00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:43,990 forward. 58 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,599 All right. Good evening. Uh Steven 59 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:48,000 Demoter, town of Mount Ary. This is kind 60 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,000 of a stream of consciousness comment 61 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,920 because I don't really have it all 62 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:55,680 weaved together, but just um you know, 63 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,599 you've all and we've all worked very 64 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:01,120 hard on the Mount Air master plan and 65 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,440 there's a series of I didn't count them 66 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,599 all up, but there's there's got to be a 67 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:07,440 good 30 68 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,800 implementation strategies in here about 69 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,959 the way forward, things that need to be 70 00:03:12,959 --> 00:03:16,319 done over the next 10 years to implement 71 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:17,920 this plan 72 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,879 >> and I know that especially Commissioner 73 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:23,599 Buts is always harping on it's not just 74 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:25,360 a plan for the shelf, we're supposed to 75 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,159 be using it, implementing it. And so, 76 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:32,400 um, I hope you appreciate when we took 77 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,879 the vote on the Warfield property 78 00:03:34,879 --> 00:03:38,400 annexation, I heavily referenced the 79 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,319 master plan and my argument was based on 80 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:45,760 what the master plan said. And so what I 81 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,680 ask is 82 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,239 it's been like a year and a half since 83 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:52,799 we all signed this document. I think 84 00:03:52,799 --> 00:03:55,760 it's time to take stock of 85 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,720 the implementation strategies. 86 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,640 Where are we at? What's the progress on 87 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,159 them and to understand that and then the 88 00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:06,799 public can understand that. So I'm 89 00:04:06,799 --> 00:04:09,760 really suggesting that the town move 90 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,040 forward on that. It can be a simple I 91 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,799 would call it a dashboard. You can do 92 00:04:14,799 --> 00:04:18,400 like a stop sign of red, yellow, green, 93 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,199 couple sentences for each implementation 94 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:23,840 strategy. Sounds to me like that's more 95 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,199 of a town planner function. Perhaps rely 96 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:30,240 on the town planning staff, but I think 97 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,560 that needs to be done. So, I just wanted 98 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,919 to encourage you to do that. Thank you. 99 00:04:35,919 --> 00:04:38,240 >> Thank you. 100 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,000 >> Any other interest in a public or 101 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,880 citizen comment? 102 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,040 Uh I wish to make a public comment 103 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,320 actually two. First off um the comments 104 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,720 just made actually echo some discussions 105 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,680 we've had on the planning commission um 106 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,240 in side meetings uh preparing for these 107 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,360 meetings and so forth with regard to um 108 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,919 we need to saddle up and start riding 109 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:04,479 that horse that's going to complete the 110 00:05:04,479 --> 00:05:08,080 objectives in the master plan. Um the 111 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,639 motivation for that is just as was 112 00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:12,639 mentioned that we shouldn't just have 113 00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:15,520 done this job for it to become shelfware 114 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,600 uh that it should be um an active plan 115 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,000 um aiming at what the town should be at 116 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,840 2033. 117 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,800 The second motivation uh is that the 118 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,800 state requires in the Maryland 119 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,800 Department of Planning that at the 120 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,600 midpoint of your 10-year plan, the town 121 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,360 has to provide the Maryland Department 122 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,720 of Planning a report as to their 123 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,360 progress in achieving the comprehensive 124 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,360 master plan and that goes for any 125 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:44,960 municipality. 126 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,840 >> So, um our plan is 23 to 33. So roughly 127 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:53,039 in 28 uh we need to be prepared to say 128 00:05:53,039 --> 00:05:55,840 what we've done to get along that road 129 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,160 on all the objectives in the 130 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,800 implementing strategies and so forth. 131 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,240 And I for one will say before you blink 132 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,800 twice 28 will be right on our doorstep. 133 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,880 It's just the way it is with our busy 134 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,400 lives. And so um so I endorse the 135 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,080 comment about that as to the best body 136 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,160 within the town to initiate that 137 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,479 discussion, set a conference together, 138 00:06:20,479 --> 00:06:23,280 pull the objective owners together, get 139 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:26,639 a status, help them get started. Um I 140 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:28,560 think we've had that discussion as to 141 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:35,759 who is best suited for that. Um and and as the as the comment was made, I'm 142 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:37,440 sure that person understands, you know, 143 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,240 we're a volunteer organization and uh 144 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,479 the planning commission is. So it's very 145 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:45,680 difficult for us to say here's a date we 146 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,440 all need to be there. And so in a 147 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,759 tasking or supervisory role that's a bit 148 00:06:49,759 --> 00:06:53,360 tenuous, I'll admit myself. Um and so we 149 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,440 need kind of the partnership of the 150 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,720 council for a g general agreement to say 151 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,120 let's set a date. Let's all convene. 152 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,280 Let's work it out, but let's get the 153 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,120 engine started and and start getting 154 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,120 down the road. 155 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,479 >> Sure. Sure. 156 00:07:08,479 --> 00:07:11,440 >> Um 157 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,280 because I was around in 2012, 158 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,759 we actually on an annual basis, we 159 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:20,080 convened representation of all the 160 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,599 commissions. 161 00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:24,720 Okay. On an annual basis. And what we 162 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,120 did was challenge ourselves. All right. 163 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,520 What progress have you made? What about 164 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,080 the goals that your department set? 165 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,080 Where are you in terms of meeting those 166 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,680 goals? It was very productive and it was 167 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,759 a team effort. So, I would recommend 168 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:44,479 that we seriously consider taking that 169 00:07:44,479 --> 00:07:46,800 same approach going forward with the 170 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,360 current master plan. 171 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,800 >> So, we have a model. 172 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,919 >> Yes. Yep. My my second public comment 173 00:07:53,919 --> 00:07:55,680 has to do with being open and 174 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,599 transparent with my fellow commissioners 175 00:07:57,599 --> 00:07:59,680 with regard to a public comment I made 176 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,560 at the last council meeting. And that 177 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,759 public comment was generated by uh the 178 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:07,759 beginning of the meeting the council was 179 00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:10,479 afforded an update by the architect for 180 00:08:10,479 --> 00:08:14,000 the town's police station. And uh in 181 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,840 that discussion in that update there was 182 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,840 a lot of good discussion and information 183 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,560 with respect to the planned elevations. 184 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,800 I shouldn't say plan, let me say the 185 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,000 proposed the the offerings with regard 186 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,039 to building design, building materials, 187 00:08:29,039 --> 00:08:33,279 building colors, etc. And so, uh, I rose 188 00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:36,159 after that update to simply, uh, make 189 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,719 the point that that building will be 190 00:08:38,719 --> 00:08:41,760 adjacent to the development that we know 191 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,760 and have worked through here known as 192 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,120 Green Tree, uh, which is 60 dwellings. 193 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,120 uh five of those dwellings will be 194 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,760 similar single family detached homes 195 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,800 facing North Main Street in keeping with 196 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,519 the harmony of that end of North Main 197 00:08:57,519 --> 00:08:59,920 Street and the community down there. And 198 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,480 so my my thoughts were and the 199 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,040 suggestions in the public comment was 200 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,240 take up and let the uh take up the 201 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,160 pattern book for Green Tree that was 202 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,240 worked very hard by these commissioners 203 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,200 to make sure that the feel look 204 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,839 elevations and designs of those 60 205 00:09:17,839 --> 00:09:21,200 dwellings um because that can inform now 206 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,360 how you may want the police station to 207 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,160 look color-wise 208 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,480 etc. So, there's some information there 209 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,240 of where the uh building is going to go. 210 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,959 Um, and so I'm just proposing use some 211 00:09:34,959 --> 00:09:36,880 of that information in reaching final 212 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,040 decisions with regard to materials, 213 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,560 colors, etc. Okay. And I've gone over 214 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:44,880 six minutes. Commissioner Wallace, 215 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,959 >> just um can I ask a question about that? 216 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:47,279 >> Sure. 217 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:49,839 >> So, is the police station property still 218 00:09:49,839 --> 00:09:51,920 part of the mixeduse development or is 219 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,959 it separate? It is the non it is the 220 00:09:54,959 --> 00:09:58,800 nonresidential portion of the MXUC. 221 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,720 >> So I know we looked at a pattern book 222 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,800 for what was the totality of that 223 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,160 development which included the 224 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,240 commercial space and now that there's 225 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,399 going to be a police station there. Is 226 00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:10,800 there would that not come back before 227 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,839 the commission to review the the 228 00:10:13,839 --> 00:10:16,079 building and some sort of you know the 229 00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:18,240 landscaping and things like that? So, so 230 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,320 once again, 231 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,760 um, like minds here, um, is it fair to 232 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,120 say, John, we've had that same 233 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,360 discussion and and I think to some 234 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,360 extent extent, I'm not sure, council 235 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,600 member Kelly, have we talked about where 236 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,279 does the commission fit in in your 237 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:35,519 progress on the council with Mosley and 238 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:39,040 the architect? Um, let me let me just 239 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,040 say I don't have a good answer right 240 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,240 now, but but it's a valid question uh as 241 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,240 to what will be our role when it comes 242 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,560 to that large building at the end of 243 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,839 North Main Street. Um, would it be fair 244 00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:54,240 to you, John, to say let's park that 245 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,240 question, but indeed let's get an answer 246 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,440 to it? 247 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,680 >> Yeah. Again, I mean, my hopes are that 248 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,279 it will be in front of the commission 249 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:03,519 for recommendations. 250 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:05,680 >> Okay. uh not an approval but 251 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:09,040 recommendations for um maybe brick 252 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,680 tones, those type of things, native 253 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:14,480 plants, etc. But yeah, it'll it'll be 254 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,160 back in front of the commission, but 255 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,880 it'll be for recommendations 256 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,800 >> and suggestions 257 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,360 >> and and I think it's fair to say, 258 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:24,800 >> you know, Mr. McCarron's going to have 259 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,760 to possibly weigh in on, you know, where the role is of the volunteer 260 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,519 planning commission with regard to a 261 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:34,720 municipal project, a a townowned 262 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,480 building and our role when it comes to 263 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:44,079 reviewing the design, colors, etc. And we don't have to have that here. Um, 264 00:11:44,079 --> 00:11:44,640 but 265 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,079 >> provide you. 266 00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:48,079 >> He was about ready to, I think, if 267 00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:49,360 you're comfortable. I didn't want to 268 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,240 blindside you. So, uh, this is not so 269 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,560 much by law, but, uh, for instance, this 270 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,640 building, I believe, and folks who are 271 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,800 here before me can correct me if I'm 272 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,399 wrong, was approved by site plan, uh, 273 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:04,720 through the planning commission. Now, 274 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,279 you know, did that have to happen? No. 275 00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:09,279 But it's my understanding that the plan 276 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:13,519 was that uh essentially the 277 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:15,360 property the I'll call the police 278 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,399 department property 279 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,720 would come back to this body by means of 280 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,399 site plan review and approval. Now 281 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:26,399 obviously there are budgetary issues 282 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:29,440 that come into play that you know I'll 283 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,079 let you all contend with. Um I would 284 00:12:32,079 --> 00:12:34,880 also remind everybody that by contract 285 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,200 the developer has stipulated in our 286 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,560 purchase agreement that the developer 287 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,800 um yeah it doesn't have a right of veto 288 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,200 but uh the the building's supposed to 289 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,480 conform with that which is intended to 290 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,440 be built around it. Uh sort of suitable 291 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,040 for a neighborhood type of um police 292 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,959 station. Um so that you know that that's 293 00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:05,279 in the contract and uh so along the 294 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,760 lines that you were speaking of Mr. Mr. 295 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,800 chairman. Um, you know, it's it's not 296 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,200 only uh suitable for this body to 297 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,560 review, but it I remind everybody that 298 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,040 by contract developer has a say, some 299 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,760 say in that, not final say, not veto, 300 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,399 but 301 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:29,760 okay. Um so I think it's fair to say um 302 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,680 there's some navigation that we just 303 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:36,560 need to get kind of agreed to here as to 304 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,560 um and and I think I speak to the 305 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,880 question and I'm confident I speak to 306 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,880 the question being in that we bring a 307 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,480 lot of value to such discussion and 308 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,399 we're experienced in it. We were just 309 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,959 having a sidebar a moment ago before we 310 00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:53,040 opened the meeting with regard to the 311 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,079 town of Mount Ary under many of us here 312 00:13:56,079 --> 00:13:59,120 now have five homes being built in 313 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,839 Chevrolet Court. Uh eight homes being 314 00:14:01,839 --> 00:14:04,560 proposed down on Buffalo Road. Uh 60 315 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,519 homes now at the other end on North Main 316 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:11,760 Street. Um and and so the point being 317 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,880 that we understand the process, we 318 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,519 understand the choices that can be made. 319 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:19,680 good and bad when it comes to the 320 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,199 appearance of of new dwellings and 321 00:14:23,199 --> 00:14:25,920 buildings. So, um so I think it's in 322 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,000 that spirit that Commissioner Wallace 323 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,639 raises a great question. So, we need to 324 00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,480 find out, I guess, what that journey can 325 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,639 be. Um and of course, the council weighs 326 00:14:34,639 --> 00:14:38,000 heavily on giving us that leash. Is it 327 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,880 short or is it long and how involved can 328 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,120 it be? So, if if that's a fair 329 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,880 conclusion. 330 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,920 Okay, with that, um, I'm going to close 331 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,320 citizen comments. Apologies for going 332 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,040 well over my six minutes for two topics. 333 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,560 And I'm going to move now to the Carol 334 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:55,920 and Frederick County planners. I 335 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,160 understand from John that uh Tiffany 336 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,320 Faucet from Carol County is not able to 337 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,440 make it this evening. Um, and so we will 338 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,079 go directly to our new Frederick County 339 00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:09,360 planner. Um, it's it's my great pleasure 340 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,199 because we've had that position absent 341 00:15:11,199 --> 00:15:13,920 for some time uh to introduce uh 342 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:19,040 Matthew. Matt, come on up here. And uh 343 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,880 >> uh No, no, right here at the table. 344 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,910 >> Yep. 345 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:29,040 » It's Matthew. I'm the county. 346 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,880 It's a pleasure to be here. 347 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,069 >> Fantastic. 348 00:15:34,079 --> 00:15:36,399 Hello. 349 00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:39,440 >> Oh, now it's on. Hello, I'm Matthew 350 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,760 Tomeitz. I am a planner for Frederick 351 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,680 County and I will be the liazison for 352 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,519 Mount Area and it is a pleasure to be 353 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:47,040 here. I look forward to working with 354 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,560 you. 355 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,000 >> Okay. And Matt, um we we had suggested 356 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,880 some focus. Uh if you have any news to 357 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,639 bring us with regard to our nearest 358 00:15:56,639 --> 00:15:58,800 Frederick County community, New Market 359 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,759 and any developments there, uh Cherry 360 00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:04,800 Run, etc. Uh 361 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,000 >> do you want an update on the number of 362 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,560 residences that they each have proposed 363 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,800 and developed or do you just want a 364 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:13,920 quick rundown? 365 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,040 >> Um so just a quick rundown. Cherry Run 366 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,120 we understand to be I believe the last 367 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,079 county in your pipeline was 1,0 368 00:16:22,079 --> 00:16:24,000 dwellings. Is that still accurate? 369 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,880 >> Cherry Run sits at 800. Now all of them 370 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,199 have proposed numbers and zero in 371 00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:31,759 development. And I can tell you that New 372 00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:33,920 Market has just provided a comprehensive 373 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,160 plan to Frederick County for review and 374 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,199 comment and that will just be starting 375 00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:41,519 soon. We have no comments yet from New 376 00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:42,079 Market. 377 00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:44,079 >> Okay. 378 00:16:44,079 --> 00:16:46,720 Um 379 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,880 any other general Frederick County 380 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,800 information that could impact uh the 381 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,120 town? 382 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,600 >> Nothing truly comes to mind. I can tell 383 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,519 you that data centers have been a hot 384 00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:00,160 commodity and they will not affect Mount 385 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,519 Ary just because the overlay zone is a 386 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:05,679 little closer to Frederick City itself 387 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:08,480 and will not impact mount area at all. 388 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,400 >> Right. We're talking about the former 389 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,600 East Alco property. 390 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,559 >> Exactly. The Quantum or Right. 391 00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:16,640 >> I could tell it has another name too. 392 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,559 They have a lot of names. 393 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:20,400 >> I turn to the commissioners then. Do the 394 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:21,760 commissioners have any questions for 395 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:30,870 Frederick County uh business or matters? 396 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,240 Go ahead, Steve. 397 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,799 >> We had discussed at some point in the 398 00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:37,440 past about a substation 399 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,520 right off of Mount Ary's property. Um, 400 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,120 and that I believe was Frederick County. 401 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,799 Did they have Were they supposed to give 402 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,320 us an update on that or let us know 403 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,240 where that is? Uh, John, I think he's 404 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,799 referring to Frederick County offered us 405 00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,120 uh an opportunity to comment on I 406 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,600 believe it was was it an annexation to 407 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,000 allow a 408 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,480 >> reasoning reszoning? That's right. 409 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,160 >> Consolidation and a reszoning of a 410 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,000 parcel. I don't think that that moved 411 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,320 forward with a positive approval. 412 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:06,799 >> Okay. 413 00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:09,120 >> It was the last thing I remember. It did 414 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:10,480 not get approved. 415 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:10,799 >> Okay. 416 00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:11,679 >> At the county level, 417 00:18:11,679 --> 00:18:13,440 >> was that taken a portion of the regular 418 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,880 farm or am I mistaken? 419 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,919 >> I don't think so. 420 00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:19,990 >> Okay. Okay. 421 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,679 » Right. 422 00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:22,720 >> Oh, that's right. 423 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:23,600 >> Right. They were trying to 424 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,840 >> They were non-conforming use. 425 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:27,760 >> That's right. It was a non-conforming 426 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,280 use and they were trying to just make it 427 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,400 all correct. 428 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,360 >> I gota 429 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,280 >> which would allow them to expand 430 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,640 without, you know, with the 431 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,000 non-conforming use, they really can't 432 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,720 expand it. 433 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,000 >> Gotcha. Could could could you refresh 434 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,720 Matt on that and maybe uh send the 435 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,640 commissioners a quick question because I like the question from Commissioner 436 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,480 Simsberger if you don't mind. 437 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,960 >> The last time I remember it was had died 438 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,600 >> had died commission level. 439 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,960 >> All right. Any other uh possible 440 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,799 questions? Matt, thank you very much. 441 00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:00,880 Welcome to the town of Mount Ary. 442 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,480 >> Thank you guys so much. 443 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,160 >> Thank you. 444 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,080 Uh we're going to move now to item five 445 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,160 on our agenda. This is discussion and 446 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,320 approval of the Twin Arch Business Park 447 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,720 Lot 15C section 4. Um, as background, 448 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,640 this agenda item was tabled at the prior 449 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,000 commission meeting for the reason that 450 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,160 the commissioners ruled that there was a 451 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,559 need for additional information or 452 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:25,840 clarity on the final site plan when it 453 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,559 was compared to the concept plan that 454 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:33,760 was approved back on May 19th of 2025. 455 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,679 Um, for the commissioners, there's no 456 00:19:35,679 --> 00:19:38,720 staff report uh other than the one that 457 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,960 was presented on August 31st at the 458 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,320 previous meeting. Um, so for this item, 459 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,600 we're just going to um first pause and 460 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,360 ask John if he wants to provide any 461 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,760 update because I propose that we move 462 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,760 right into the four areas that we asked 463 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,280 for additional information. 464 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:56,960 >> I have nothing to add to that. 465 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,720 >> Fantastic. Uh, Mr. Patel, if you'll 466 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,919 please come. and um Miss King or very 467 00:20:05,919 --> 00:20:07,760 good 468 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,919 um 469 00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:12,080 and because I believe this is the first 470 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,280 time Mr. Patel um 471 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,880 >> you're certainly welcome to introduce 472 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,799 yourself representing the engineering 473 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:20,640 for the property. 474 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,559 >> Good evening everyone. My name is Tal 475 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:24,640 Kumar Patel, a professional civil 476 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,640 engineer from Wenmar Associate and I'm 477 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,880 here representing Kingsport Construction 478 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,679 L 15C for final site plan. 479 00:20:31,679 --> 00:20:34,559 >> Very good. Thank you very much. Uh so 480 00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:36,640 let's proceed. The first item that we 481 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,039 had uh asked for additional information 482 00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:41,760 was to understand what was going to be 483 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,600 the true water and sewer allocation for 484 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,600 the final site plan because uh there was 485 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,640 seen some building changes and so forth 486 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,880 and some water connections, some water 487 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,799 connections from the previous plan that 488 00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:59,039 were no longer going to be connected, 489 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:02,080 etc. And so again, we had a rich debate 490 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,000 as to what was the real number with 491 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,480 regard to the water allocation. 492 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,480 So um as a start back on May 19th of 493 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,159 2025, 494 00:21:12,159 --> 00:21:14,159 uh we understood at the concept plan 495 00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:16,400 approval that this property in that 496 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,799 concept plan design was going to require 497 00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:21,280 2,314 498 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,240 gallons per day at that time. And then in the interim of course there was 499 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,559 a redesign that was now offered as the 500 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,679 final plan and again some changes with 501 00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:34,880 regard to the buildings uh and so forth. 502 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,039 And it's my understanding that the town 503 00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:40,080 engineer in concert with you Mr. Patel 504 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,320 you've now assessed that the different 505 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,080 site plan has uh an agreed new water 506 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,520 allocation of 1,727 507 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,080 gallons per day. And I'll stop there. Is 508 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:52,640 that correct? 509 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,799 >> That is correct. Yes. And Barney, is 510 00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:56,080 that correct? 511 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,200 >> Yes, that is correct. 512 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,559 >> Okay. Um, so then with that being agreed 513 00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:04,720 between the town engineer and the 514 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,039 engineer for the property, I turn to the 515 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:08,799 commissioners. Do you have any questions 516 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:12,159 with regard to that water allocation of 517 00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:13,919 1,727? 518 00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:15,120 Commissioner Walls, 519 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,280 >> it's not so much a question, but just 520 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,600 for the sake of documentation, 521 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,559 um, you know, in this memorandum, uh, 522 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:25,679 dated 921 2026, 523 00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:28,480 in the number one, it talks about, you 524 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:29,840 know, the final site plan has an 525 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,559 allocation of 1,027. I'm assuming that's 526 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:34,640 because the 700 gallons per day that 527 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,320 were already allocated. Yeah, 528 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,760 >> but it's saying that that was an 529 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,080 approximate 46% reduction in the 530 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,240 allocation. And that's not really that's 531 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,600 not really accurate because we already 532 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,440 said it's 1727. 533 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,600 >> So it's really just a 25% reduction from 534 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,039 what was there before. So it's not 535 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:50,799 really a you know I think everybody 536 00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:52,240 knows what's going on but to have to 537 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,000 like reverse engineer the documents uh 538 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,120 and I think for the sake of 539 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,600 documentation that should be accurate in 540 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,000 the staff report or in the memorandum or 541 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,240 whatever. So, so if I may, Commissioner 542 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,919 Walls, let me trail on that because it 543 00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:08,159 raises a good question. For the project 544 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:11,600 file and for the recordation of that 545 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,480 water allocation, which in our code is 546 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,880 an enormously important number for 547 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,080 everybody to agree to. Um, and perhaps a 548 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,799 question to Mr. McCarron here. Should we 549 00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:24,720 ask that there be a correction to the 550 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,039 engineers's letter or is this minutes uh 551 00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:30,720 are these minutes acknowledging 552 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,600 everyone's agreement on 1,727 553 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,039 gallons per day sufficient? 554 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:41,039 >> Um I would I would ask for a correction 555 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:43,440 to the submission from the engineer. 556 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,240 >> Okay. Okay. Mr. Patel, is that 557 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:47,360 agreeable? 558 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:48,400 >> Uh yes. 559 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,960 >> Okay. But this memorandum is just for 560 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,600 giving a clarification on all those four 561 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,840 questions. I guess we have corrected on 562 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,120 a plan. So is there memorandum? Is this 563 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,280 something you ask me to correct or 564 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,640 >> so the so the 1727 is reflected on the 565 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,000 final plan sheets? 566 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:06,640 >> That's correct. 567 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,559 >> Could you direct us to which sheet shows 568 00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:12,950 that, sir? 569 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,600 >> Cover sheet. 570 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,200 should have a whole plan there 571 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:24,870 >> in the right margin. 572 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,200 » So I see number 12 in the right margin 573 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,679 it says estimated water flow is 1,027 574 00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:33,039 gallons per day 575 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,360 >> which is correct because the existing is 576 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:36,960 700. 577 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,880 So I think what they're looking for and 578 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,039 what Commissioner Wallace is looking for 579 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,279 is this memorandum which will go in the 580 00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:45,679 permit record that we do a revision and 581 00:24:45,679 --> 00:24:47,679 I'm thinking that in parentheses we 582 00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:49,600 should possibly put in there the 700 583 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,799 gallons that exist for the total lot not 584 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:53,600 this project. 585 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,039 >> Okay. So memorandum not 586 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:57,120 >> and we'll change it to the 25%. 587 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,279 >> So just to be clear so the the 700 588 00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:01,039 gallons per day they were for the two 589 00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,039 residential existing 590 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:04,320 >> properties. Is that right? Correct. 591 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,919 Because they were initially 350 592 00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:06,480 a piece, 593 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,600 >> right? 350 per, 594 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,159 >> right? And then that particular parcel 595 00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:12,480 got chopped up and then that part got 596 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,880 put into 15C. That allocation got put 597 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,400 into 15C. 598 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,919 >> Well, I would defer to engineering on 599 00:25:17,919 --> 00:25:20,159 that because that's his avenue. 600 00:25:20,159 --> 00:25:22,640 >> That's correct. Um, so when we look at a 601 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,960 site plan and we're looking at from APFO 602 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,400 standpoint, we're looking at what 603 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,960 additional water is being required. So 604 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,480 when they say in the memo that the final 605 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,400 site plan will have 1027 additional 606 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,320 gallons per day, that is a correct 607 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,120 statement. Um it could be clarified to 608 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,600 say in addition to the 700 that would 609 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,279 give a total site allocation of 1727. 610 00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:48,799 >> That's I think that's necessary. 611 00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:51,600 >> Yeah, if we could do that um I I think 612 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,480 just put that into the memo. 613 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,000 >> I think that's enough. But I don't think 614 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,320 we need to update drawings because that 615 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,320 is correct 616 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,840 um allocation for that 15C 617 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,600 drawing. 618 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,840 >> Meaning we already have an existing 700. 619 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,840 What we're add what we're adding is 620 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,960 1027. 621 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,919 >> Okay. 622 00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:14,559 Um, and so I guess the final 623 00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,159 documentation of the agreed 1727 would 624 00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:21,279 be that is that is the number that 625 00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:24,880 you're going to record for 15C in your 626 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,200 water management spreadsheet. 627 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:27,840 >> Correct. 628 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,320 >> So that that would capture the correct 629 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,960 number or the total number there. 630 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:33,440 >> Yeah. 631 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:33,840 >> Okay. 632 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,279 >> Because there's an existing line that 633 00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:37,679 already has 700 gallons a day. There's a 634 00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:40,480 new line that will have well several new 635 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,559 lines because it's per building. 636 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:42,880 >> Okay. 637 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,320 >> That'll have the various ones that add 638 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,720 up to 27. 639 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,520 >> Okay. So, um with apologies that I'm 640 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,200 kind of taking the mic here. I think 641 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,440 what I am hearing is that we would like 642 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,520 the memorandum to be corrected, Mr. 643 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,640 Patel. And with the assurance that the 644 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,480 town engineer is going to record that 645 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,880 lot as 1727, 646 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,960 the engineer is recommending no need to 647 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,279 cover the to change the cover sheet for 648 00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:10,960 the drawings. Is all three all three 649 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,039 correct, John? 650 00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:14,320 >> Yeah, I think we're okay. I was just 651 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,440 wondering to to to satisfy Heather is, 652 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,520 you know, maybe we removed that section 653 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,600 of the 4625. Is it necessary to show the 654 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,679 reduction from what it was? We can 655 00:27:25,679 --> 00:27:27,360 clearly see there was a reduction in 656 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:29,919 gallons per day. You know, is it we're 657 00:27:29,919 --> 00:27:31,360 striking that line or do you want to 658 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:32,240 have that line on 659 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,559 >> wherever? It needs to just be recorded 660 00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:36,400 somewhere where it's obvious. I mean, if 661 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,440 you go into this this spreadsheet 662 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,159 >> like on here, 663 00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:44,880 you know, it's 8,000 times. 07 and it 664 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,480 says 210. 665 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,720 >> That's not correct. 666 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,880 >> If you look in the comments, it tells 667 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,279 you there's an existing 350. So, 668 00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:56,480 >> it doesn't say 350. 560. It says one 669 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,600 commercial unit, right? 670 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,000 >> It doesn't say 350 on here, Bernie. All 671 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,640 I'm saying is like there's the math 672 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:03,679 isn't mapping and 673 00:28:03,679 --> 00:28:06,080 >> I have an updated information. 674 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,440 >> I have an updated sheet that apparently 675 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,039 didn't make it make it in your packets 676 00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:11,919 that show the existing 700. Um, and it 677 00:28:11,919 --> 00:28:14,480 gives you a total of 1727 for the for 678 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,200 the site. 679 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,679 >> Right. And and I and I believe the 680 00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:24,480 point's being made that if you take the 8,000 times the 7 for 681 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,080 those two former residences, 682 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,919 right, who that are now flex warehouse 683 00:28:31,919 --> 00:28:36,320 or the two former residential buildings. 684 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,240 >> If you take the 7* 8, you get 560. But 685 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,440 what that chart is showing is 210. And 686 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,919 that 210 is because you subtracted 350 687 00:28:47,919 --> 00:28:49,840 from 688 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,919 >> from the 560. 689 00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:57,039 560US 350 is 210. So I think I I 690 00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:58,559 understand what she's asking for. Why 691 00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:01,200 don't we just put 560 in both of those 692 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,240 squares? And that way we get 1727. 693 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,080 >> You know, that's just an estimate sheet. 694 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,559 But the point is that, 695 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:09,919 you know, I'm not trying to throw anyone 696 00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:11,279 under the bus here, but the point is 697 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:12,960 that we're we're here reviewing this 698 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,200 packet right at home with no other 699 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,360 information. And I have to reverse 700 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,120 engineer the numbers and try to figure 701 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,240 out why the math is wrong and why it 702 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,960 says one, you know, 1,027 instead of 703 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,440 1727. And so all I'm saying is it needs 704 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,559 to be documented appropriately that it's 705 00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:33,919 a total of 1727. Where that happens, I 706 00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:35,440 don't care. I just think it needs to be 707 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:36,480 on the record. 708 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,279 >> Gotcha. Okay. 709 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:40,240 >> Go ahead, Barney. 710 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:40,960 >> Clarification. 711 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:41,919 >> Sure. 712 00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:43,440 >> This this document I don't normally 713 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,279 share. These are are calculations that 714 00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:47,360 we use internally. In the calculation, 715 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,080 it shows you it subtracts 350. So it 716 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,200 gives the of what you don't see in the 717 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,159 spreadsheet. The formula shows 8,000* 718 00:29:56,159 --> 00:30:00,559 007 gives you 560 minus 350 is 210. in 719 00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:02,399 the comment in the comments in the 720 00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:04,240 comments it says 721 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,880 >> connected and paid one commercial unit 722 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,240 723 that's 350 gallons. So that tells 723 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,320 you right there there was already a 350 724 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,600 applied to that to that site or that 725 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,559 building. 726 00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:19,039 >> So that's the difference. I know it's 727 00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:21,679 not clear to you but that's why I sent a 728 00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:23,919 updated sheet. It did not make it in 729 00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:24,720 your packets. 730 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:25,039 >> Okay. 731 00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:26,159 >> Sorry. 732 00:30:26,159 --> 00:30:28,640 >> So So let me offer again. I'm trying to 733 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,000 wrap up. How are we going to be 734 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,640 agreeable on closing out this this water 735 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,799 allocation thing? I believe we have an 736 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:36,159 agreement that we need to get a 737 00:30:36,159 --> 00:30:39,200 resubmission of that letter with the 738 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,799 corrected number. 739 00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:43,360 >> Okay. Uh and that John I'm going to 740 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,200 surmise is going to be a document that 741 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,640 goes in the project file. 742 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:47,039 >> Correct. 743 00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:49,600 >> And so we'll have that record of the 744 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,279 corrected number 1727. 745 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:56,000 Barney's indicated that he is tracking 746 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,679 1727 for lot 15C in his water management 747 00:30:59,679 --> 00:31:01,440 spreadsheet. 748 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,960 Um, 749 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,840 and the town engineer and the zoning 750 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,399 administrator both those two actions are 751 00:31:08,399 --> 00:31:10,480 sufficient in their minds to record this 752 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,159 accurately. Is that is that what I'm 753 00:31:12,159 --> 00:31:12,640 hearing? 754 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:13,120 >> Yes. 755 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,679 >> Okay. Any commissioner issue or 756 00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:18,159 additional requirement for recording 757 00:31:18,159 --> 00:31:22,480 1727 for this as the water allocation? 758 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,799 Then is it agreeable that this item has 759 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:27,440 been addressed and is agreeable for that 760 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,600 number? Okay, then 761 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,000 let's close this area 762 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,399 and um 763 00:31:36,399 --> 00:31:38,640 and again for the public I want to 764 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,960 emphasize why this is an important thing 765 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,720 because 766 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,559 in 98-30 767 00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:47,840 uh excuse me 9830J 768 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,600 um it states the town planning 769 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,519 commission shall determine at the final 770 00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:53,919 site plan review stage whether the final 771 00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:56,799 site plan proposal or any phase thereof 772 00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,679 increases the demand for water and/or 773 00:31:59,679 --> 00:32:03,679 sewer from that proposed in the approved 774 00:32:03,679 --> 00:32:06,799 concept plan. If the planning commission 775 00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:08,799 determines that the final site plan 776 00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:10,559 proposal 777 00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:13,440 does not increase the demand for water 778 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,919 or sewer allocation, the final site plan 779 00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:18,159 review and approval process shall 780 00:32:18,159 --> 00:32:21,200 proceed. So, I know I dwelled on this a 781 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,039 while, but it was key that we hit this 782 00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,519 first because I believe now we may 783 00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:28,480 proceed with the other areas and then 784 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,720 ultimately the final site plan review 785 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,399 and decision. Uh so it it did not 786 00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:38,240 increase. Uh the original was 2314. 787 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,559 We're now at 1727. 788 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:43,279 So I believe uh we're good on that area. 789 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:45,279 The second area is clarity regarding the 790 00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:47,919 streets and roads aspect of the final 791 00:32:47,919 --> 00:32:51,200 site plan compared to the concept plan. 792 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,840 Um once again the town engineer in 793 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,840 concert with the uh applicants engineer 794 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,919 uh they've applied the manual for the 795 00:32:59,919 --> 00:33:02,240 institute of transportation engineers 796 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,720 and have calculated the peak hour trips 797 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,679 that are going to be required from the 798 00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:09,679 activity depicted in the final site 799 00:33:09,679 --> 00:33:13,039 plan. And in comparing that latest set 800 00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:15,760 of calculations to those done previously 801 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,840 at the concept plan stage, um it is my 802 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,519 view, and I'm eager to hear what the 803 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:24,159 commissioner say. It is my view that the 804 00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:26,399 new peak hour trip calculations for the 805 00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:28,880 final site plan are lower than the 806 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,919 concept plan peak hour trips. Um and so 807 00:33:33,919 --> 00:33:35,840 I'll pause again and ask Barney, do you 808 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,840 want to add anything to that statement? 809 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,120 Is it is it accurate? That is correct. 810 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,640 >> Okay, Mr. Patel, 811 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,440 >> it is correct. 812 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,840 >> It's correct, John. 813 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,080 >> Okay. Uh, commissioners, do you have any 814 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,480 questions with regard to the new 815 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,120 calculations for trip frequency at peak 816 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,710 hour? 817 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,399 Seeing none, I'm going to close this 818 00:33:58,399 --> 00:34:00,480 second area uh by concluding that the 819 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,559 streets and roads portion of the APFO 820 00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:04,640 certifications are still certified as 821 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,200 adequate given the fact that there is 822 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,119 actually a reduction of the peak hour 823 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:12,560 traffic associated with the final site 824 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,599 plan. The third area is clarity that we 825 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:17,919 asked for with regard to the landscaping 826 00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:20,399 plan. And our particular focus in the 827 00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:23,119 last meeting was the landscaping plan 828 00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:26,000 relative to the sightelines toward 829 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000 Britney Manor. And the uh already 830 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,560 referred to separate uh September 21 831 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,879 memo from Van Maher on this topic reads, 832 00:34:34,879 --> 00:34:37,679 quote, "To address this question, 833 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,320 instead of the relocation of existing 834 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,879 trees, the final site plan has been 835 00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:45,440 updated to include 10 new trees, 836 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,040 including three new street trees along 837 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,119 back acre circle. Also, there is an 8- 838 00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:56,000 foot high black chain link fence with 839 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,680 insert flats to provide a solid 840 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,400 screening along back circle and a 841 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,000 screening of the site from the direction 842 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,200 of Britney Manor. And so, are those 843 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,640 statements all correct, Mr. 844 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,480 >> Correct? Gotcha. Um, and so, uh, I turn 845 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,160 to sheet 11 of the design drawings, 846 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,760 which is the specific landscaping plan 847 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,119 for the final site plan. And a simple 848 00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:27,680 straightforward question is the 849 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,520 information you provided us in the 850 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,000 letter I just quoted also depicted in 851 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,839 sheet 11 for the landscaping. 852 00:35:33,839 --> 00:35:34,800 >> That's correct. Yes. 853 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,160 >> Fantastic. Um, any questions, 854 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,320 commissioners? 855 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,400 Commissioner Walls? Has there been any 856 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,000 other changes to the landscape plan 857 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,240 since the original one that we saw? 858 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:48,720 >> No, we just added uh 10 new trees 859 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,920 instead of relocating it because of I 860 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,920 think we noticed that some trees are 861 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,280 dead. So instead 862 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,079 >> they're dead. Yeah. 863 00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:58,079 >> So instead of relocating, we are putting 864 00:35:58,079 --> 00:35:59,280 the 10 new trees. 865 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,119 >> Okay. 866 00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:03,119 Any other questions, 867 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,000 commissioners, on the landscaping 868 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,200 um information? 869 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,040 And uh again Barney I didn't ask you 870 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,800 point blank but uh is that landscaping 871 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,680 plan acceptable to you and John also is 872 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,839 it okay then I believe we are agreed on 873 00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:21,599 this third topic with regard to the 874 00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,320 landscaping plan. It is acceptable and 875 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,599 it adequately screens the land use on 876 00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:31,280 lot 15C particularly from the sidelines 877 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,960 of uh Britany Manor. 878 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,440 The fourth and final area we requested 879 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,359 clarity on has to do with our concern 880 00:36:39,359 --> 00:36:41,040 whether the final plan was submitted 881 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,520 within the code required time of six 882 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,520 months after the May 19th concept plan 883 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,400 approval. I raised this issue and I 884 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,880 simply asked could we get uh 885 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,079 documentation as to the communications 886 00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:59,200 postconcept plan between uh the 887 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,079 engineering firm and the town as to 888 00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:04,880 whether we can conclude they did indeed 889 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,960 submit the material for the final plan 890 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,599 within that six-month period. Um, in 891 00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,359 response to that, I believe Vanmar 892 00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:13,440 submitted several pages of memorandums 893 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,240 which document those communications. And 894 00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,480 I see on the very first of those memos 895 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,640 that were in the uh stack that was 896 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,680 provided for us, uh there's a record of 897 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,160 the first submitt of the final site plan 898 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,040 dated October 17, 899 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,960 2025. 900 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,960 And so from May 19th to October 17th, 901 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,800 that's roughly five months. 902 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,280 >> Five months. And so five months against 903 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,599 the code required, six months um I see 904 00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:46,560 that in fact uh the plan was submitted 905 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,359 within the code requirement. Is is that 906 00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:50,960 your view also Mr. Patel? 907 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:51,839 >> That is correct. 908 00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:54,400 >> Okay, Barney John? 909 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,440 >> Yep, that's correct. 910 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,280 >> Okay, commissioners, any questions on 911 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,480 the timeline of communications to meet 912 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,190 the code requirements? 913 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,119 Seeing none, I believe we're all agreed 914 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,200 now that we can close this fourth and 915 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,680 last area of clarity that we asked for 916 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,839 at the last meeting. And with that 917 00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:16,560 agreement, I believe we can now move to 918 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,240 proceed into deliberation of the final 919 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:23,839 site plan itself. Um 920 00:38:23,839 --> 00:38:26,160 I want to I want to give a little 921 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,760 guidance here. Um the code gives us some 922 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,680 information with regard to final site 923 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,200 plan approval from the planning 924 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,320 commission. And the choices that we have 925 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,480 with regard to the final site plan are 926 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,720 number one, we may unconditionally 927 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:44,079 approve the u new water and sewer 928 00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:46,960 allocation and the final site plan as 929 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,960 submitted. 930 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,040 The second option we have is of course 931 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,599 we may conditionally approve the final 932 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,560 site plan and water allocation. 933 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,520 And if a conditional approving uh uh 934 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,359 conditional approval is motioned and 935 00:39:01,359 --> 00:39:04,160 approved, then the code requires that we 936 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,079 identify which of those conditions in 937 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,599 that approval are deemed minor and which 938 00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:12,480 ones are deemed major. Those that are 939 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,640 deemed minor by this commission are 940 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,119 those then that are monitored and 941 00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:19,200 checked off by the town staff, 942 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,880 specifically the town zoning 943 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,599 administrator for satisfaction. And then 944 00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:26,640 once those are done to his satisfaction, 945 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,520 he then renders final approval of the 946 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,800 final plan. Those that are deemed major 947 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,880 if we have a conditional approval are 948 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,680 those conditions which have to circle 949 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,960 back to this commission to review what 950 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,200 was done to satisfy that condition and 951 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,480 then we render that satisfaction and 952 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,720 final approval. So I'm just offering 953 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,920 some care as to whether a motion is made 954 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,400 for a conditional approval. 955 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,280 Lastly, of course, we all know the 956 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,440 commission may disapprove the plan as 957 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,520 presented tonight along with its water 958 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,440 allocation. 959 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,680 If the final site plan is disapproved 960 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,520 according to the code, the water and 961 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,400 sewer allocation, SA continue to be 962 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,359 reserved for the application pending 963 00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:16,720 approval of the final site plan and the 964 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:20,640 applicant may revise the plan to address 965 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,119 any reasons for the disapproval and then 966 00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:25,280 reapply. So in the case of disapproval, 967 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,839 we hold the water allocation until we 968 00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:29,839 see whether the applicant comes forward 969 00:40:29,839 --> 00:40:33,680 again with a revised plan. So with that 970 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,760 guidance straight from the code, I ask 971 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,000 that John put up his staff report and 972 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,640 recommendation from August 31st on this 973 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,200 topic. I believe he also provided each 974 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,000 of you a hard copy of that in case our 975 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,320 screen doesn't work. 976 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,200 >> It should work 977 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,359 >> again. Thank you. 978 00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:54,880 >> It should work. Is it warming up? 979 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,800 >> Take a millisecond here. 980 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,720 >> I think we had a warm-up issue last 981 00:40:58,720 --> 00:40:59,599 time. There we go. 982 00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:01,200 >> All right. Good. I don't know if you can 983 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,680 blow that up because um I'm I'm 42 and I 984 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,280 sometimes have heart um I'm just joking. 985 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,200 There we go. Beautiful. Thank you so 986 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,440 much, John. So, commissioners, I'm 987 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,240 guiding us along here to the final site 988 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,440 plan deliberation. This was the staff 989 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,400 recommendation last time. We tabled it 990 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,240 because we needed more information and 991 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:26,240 we have gotten through those four areas. 992 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:28,640 So, we're at this point now and that is 993 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,440 what John recommends. John, I now turn 994 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,920 to you. Do you wish to amend, edit, or 995 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,319 correct any of what you gave us last 996 00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:37,599 month? 997 00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:39,520 >> The only thing I would potentially think 998 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,160 about removing is the last line. Again, 999 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,640 when I was out at the site a month ago, 1000 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,960 I didn't see any of the uh materials for 1001 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,040 the turf fields being stored outside as 1002 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,040 they were previously. I think they're 1003 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,680 all inside their storage buildings. I 1004 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,319 didn't see any out on tractor trailers 1005 00:41:56,319 --> 00:41:58,960 or any open bags anywhere. So, that's 1006 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,480 potentially the only thing I could see 1007 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,960 is being removed. 1008 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,520 >> Um 1009 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,000 >> bless you. Bless Um, so, um, 1010 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,200 >> because again this 1011 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,280 >> No, I I I got you. I'm just asking it. 1012 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,079 sounded as if you were leaving the 1013 00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:18,720 removal to us. Are are 1014 00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:20,240 >> are you striking it? 1015 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:22,000 >> Yeah, I'm saying it could be strike 1016 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,599 because again, that's really not part of 1017 00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:25,440 this site plan. It's own separate 1018 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,400 operation. 1019 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,400 >> Okay. Um, any other edits or amendments 1020 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,520 that you 1021 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,800 >> No, that's the only one. 1022 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,960 >> Okay. Um, I'm going to ask town engineer 1023 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,040 to weigh in on this, too. Uh, because 1024 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,359 there are sprinkler systems and such. 1025 00:42:39,359 --> 00:42:42,400 Um, do you have any proposed 1026 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,400 improvements, changes to this 1027 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,920 conditional approval? 1028 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,270 >> No, I agree with it as is. 1029 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,880 » You agree? Okay. Um, commissioners, do 1030 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,599 you have any uh questions on these? Um, 1031 00:42:57,599 --> 00:42:59,359 so we're going to strike the very last 1032 00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:01,839 one with regard to the storage of that 1033 00:43:01,839 --> 00:43:05,440 material. Uh, the other conditions, I 1034 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,280 see three other conditions underneath 1035 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,880 the 1036 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,520 uh, approval. Uh, Commissioner Hadley, 1037 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,280 >> I was just going to say we need to put 1038 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,720 in a sentence about the memo being 1039 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:16,560 corrected. 1040 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,480 >> Uh, we can do that. 1041 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:19,920 >> Sure. Sure. 1042 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,839 >> We can do uh to correct the water 1043 00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:24,240 allocation statement of earlier. Yes. 1044 00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:25,359 Commissioner Wallace, 1045 00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:27,040 >> can you explain why you wanted to remove 1046 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,480 the last one? Because I was actually 1047 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,160 thinking the last line should stay, but 1048 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,920 it should be updated to will instead of 1049 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,750 should. 1050 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,520 » That's okay, too. I mean, that's again, 1051 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,800 it's it's just that it's not relative to 1052 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,960 what's being presented here. Again, it's 1053 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,960 already an existing use on the parcel. 1054 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,319 >> I know we had talked about it before. 1055 00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:48,079 Was it when the first concept plan came 1056 00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:48,560 through? 1057 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,720 >> Well, no, it was when it a concept and 1058 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:53,359 final came through years ago. a couple 1059 00:43:53,359 --> 00:43:55,200 years ago. 1060 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,160 >> I'm I'm I'm comfortable with changing 1061 00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,280 should to will. 1062 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,040 >> That would be okay. 1063 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,800 >> Any any commissioner comment on that 1064 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,359 suggestion? We're we're pulling the last 1065 00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:07,040 bullet back in, but we're changing 1066 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,560 should to will. 1067 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,440 >> Will be stored. 1068 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,599 >> I think the as I recall the there was 1069 00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:14,160 like concern about PAS and correct 1070 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,599 leeching into the ground 1071 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:18,400 >> and the rain and right and such. Yeah. 1072 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,040 >> Yeah. 1073 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:19,440 >> So 1074 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,599 >> yeah. And I believe at that initial time 1075 00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:23,119 the bags were being stored in the 1076 00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:24,319 bunkers. 1077 00:44:24,319 --> 00:44:26,880 >> Uh no, two years ago when I was out 1078 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,359 there I noticed that there were um some 1079 00:44:29,359 --> 00:44:30,960 of the turf fields were just sitting on 1080 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,960 a tractor trailer out in just in the 1081 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,000 yard. Okay. 1082 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,640 >> And some of the PAS bags of beads were 1083 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,800 just sitting out exposed. I think the 1084 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,920 tops were open. 1085 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:40,319 >> Okay. 1086 00:44:40,319 --> 00:44:42,400 >> So, and I think they they corrected 1087 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:43,200 those issues. 1088 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,160 >> Okay. 1089 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,359 >> I could tell. 1090 00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:52,240 >> Okay. Um, so good comment on that. Um, 1091 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:53,920 any other commissioner input? Once 1092 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,680 again, no. Uh, I turn to Mr. Patel and 1093 00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,920 the applicant. Do you see any of these 1094 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:07,190 conditions ownorous or unachievable? 1095 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,160 And we will include the uh, resubmission 1096 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,319 of the memorandum. 1097 00:45:12,319 --> 00:45:14,720 uh whoever makes the motion will include 1098 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:19,839 that as a uh as a condition for toward 1099 00:45:19,839 --> 00:45:20,880 final approval. 1100 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,480 >> Okay. I just want to make a comment just 1101 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,200 for the clarification for the last one. 1102 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,440 Isn't that the existing views of the 1103 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,400 site is it separate from what we are 1104 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,510 representing the site plan for or 1105 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:36,960 » Exactly. That's why I was saying to 1106 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,960 remove it 1107 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,720 >> but again the use 1108 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:42,960 >> is different than what is the use of the 1109 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,839 site is already been there and it's 1110 00:45:45,839 --> 00:45:49,280 existing so it has I'm not sure whether 1111 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,839 it's a connection with this site plan. 1112 00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:55,920 >> Okay. So again I turn to u possibly Mr. 1113 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,800 McCarron but I certainly turned to John. 1114 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,680 This was your recommendation. So, uh, 1115 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,560 we're now back to, uh, a proposal to 1116 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,560 strike it. 1117 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,000 >> I'm I'm indifferent, like you're saying. 1118 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,680 I mean, I can see where 1119 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,200 >> Heather could still be concerned about 1120 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,880 this. Again, the, um, 1121 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,800 >> let me, uh, let me see if I can resolve 1122 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,720 it this way. Do you see the requirement 1123 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:19,040 or the condition here as one you can't 1124 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,640 attain or is it something you're going 1125 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,480 to do as a matter of business? 1126 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,480 >> I think that's what I I just don't want 1127 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,640 to have a string connected to this side 1128 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,400 plan. I mean, I'm sure they will be able 1129 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,880 to resolve and I think they already have 1130 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:31,599 resolved. 1131 00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:32,400 >> Okay. 1132 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,160 >> But I just want to make sure for the 1133 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:34,640 clarification. 1134 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,720 >> No, I understand. 1135 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,319 I'm not saying that they won't be able 1136 00:46:38,319 --> 00:46:40,400 to do it, but it's just 1137 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,560 >> got you. Um, Commissioner Walls, 1138 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,160 >> if we could just get some clarification 1139 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,920 on I know that we've talked about this 1140 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,760 before and I know that we changed that 1141 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,440 language from should to will or 1142 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,319 something like that before and I just 1143 00:46:52,319 --> 00:46:56,160 don't recall what that what that was. 1144 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,560 Um, was it I was wondering if it was 1145 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,640 like an earlier, you know, the initial 1146 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,319 concept plan coming in. 1147 00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:05,040 >> Well, it was probably 15B when it was 1148 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,720 initially just the over overall larger 1149 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:10,400 parcel before they came in and 1150 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,040 subdivided off the portion they're 1151 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,240 deeding to the town. 1152 00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:14,640 >> Okay. 1153 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,000 >> Um, again, so that's why the use is 1154 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,119 already on here. The that recycling 1155 00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:22,960 won't be in the buildings that are being 1156 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,960 the new proposed buildings. They'll be 1157 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,480 in some of the existing buildings that 1158 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,319 they're enclosing. Um, 1159 00:47:28,319 --> 00:47:29,760 >> but that that's one of the proposed 1160 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,760 warehouses on 15C, right? 1161 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,079 >> Well, again, it'll be one of the um 1162 00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:35,440 other buildings in the rear, but yeah, 1163 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,599 it's one of the it'll be an existing 1164 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:39,040 warehouse that they're utilizing 1165 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:39,599 already. 1166 00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:41,599 >> I thought it was currently in the pole 1167 00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:43,520 shed. Didn't we talk about before it was 1168 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,359 currently being stored in the pole shed 1169 00:47:45,359 --> 00:47:45,760 building, 1170 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,000 >> right? Building number six on 1171 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,599 >> open on one side and closed on. 1172 00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,160 >> I think that's been enclosed if I'm not 1173 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,920 mistaken. And that's all been enclosed 1174 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,480 where they're recycle recycling the um 1175 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,550 materials are all being enclosed. 1176 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,240 » We are um one building has been enclosed 1177 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:08,800 and one is being enclosed. So there 1178 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,240 >> which building are you currently doing 1179 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,359 the recycling of the turf material in? 1180 00:48:13,359 --> 00:48:14,240 Do you know? 1181 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:15,440 >> One all the way in the back. 1182 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:16,720 >> Right. So that would be building not 1183 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,119 building seven which is an existing pole 1184 00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:21,920 shed. It's building six, the existing 1185 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,559 post shed building. 1186 00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:27,680 One is 6,2445 1187 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,760 square feet. The larger of the two 1188 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:30,960 buildings back there is where you're 1189 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,520 doing the recycling and and the storage 1190 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,839 of the the um turf and the beads, where 1191 00:48:37,839 --> 00:48:40,400 are they being stored after? 1192 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:40,720 >> Yeah. 1193 00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:43,520 >> Inside that building. again. 1194 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,319 >> So, that building with its current 1195 00:48:48,319 --> 00:48:51,440 operations has a permitted use. 1196 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,079 >> Correct. 1197 00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:54,880 >> You have given them a permit for them to 1198 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:55,599 operate 1199 00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:59,040 >> that business in that structure. 1200 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,400 >> The structures exactly stipulation. 1201 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,880 >> Right. That was a tad that was part of 1202 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,119 their stipulation. That's what you plan. 1203 00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:07,599 >> That's what I was. 1204 00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:09,040 >> That's why I'm sort of saying to remove 1205 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,200 it from here because it's really not 1206 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,280 pertinent to this design, 1207 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,119 >> which is Mr. Patel's point, right? 1208 00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:16,079 >> Yeah. 1209 00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:18,079 >> So, I think we're back to striking it. 1210 00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:20,480 If you've already permitted the 1211 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,359 recycling operation and the handling of 1212 00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:26,960 the beads per that caution, 1213 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:28,559 then 1214 00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:31,839 it's it's already been it's already been 1215 00:49:31,839 --> 00:49:34,079 required as a part of your permit 1216 00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:34,720 >> the original. 1217 00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:35,599 >> Is that accurate? 1218 00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:37,040 >> Of the original site plan. Exactly. 1219 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,160 >> Of the original. Okay. Does does that 1220 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,359 satisfy? 1221 00:49:41,359 --> 00:49:42,319 >> I don't know. 1222 00:49:42,319 --> 00:49:43,839 >> No. 1223 00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:46,640 >> Okay. I think what what Heather's 1224 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,319 saying, I'm trying to remember too that 1225 00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:49,920 when this came forward in the the 1226 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,400 concept that this was an issue and that 1227 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,040 we brought it up and we talked about it, 1228 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:59,359 but there's been changes and I think if 1229 00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:02,160 those buildings are part of this site 1230 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,079 plan, then it's still pertinent, 1231 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:04,720 >> okay, 1232 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,240 >> to it. And because we we we had it the 1233 00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:10,240 way it was supposed to be according when 1234 00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:11,920 we all agreed upon it and then there was 1235 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,240 a bunch of changes and now we're at a 1236 00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:15,200 different point. Now we're saying we 1237 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,079 don't need it. So 1238 00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:17,839 >> So so let's try this. I'm trying to 1239 00:50:17,839 --> 00:50:19,280 weave in between all of these 1240 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,640 statements. So, how about we leave it 1241 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,680 in, but we change the wording to 1242 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,960 recycling of turf fields shall continue 1243 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,559 to be stored because that recognizes 1244 00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:32,400 that it's already underway as a 1245 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,880 permitted use and we're simply 1246 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,800 emphasizing it again here. 1247 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,200 >> Right. 1248 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:38,559 >> Is that fair to all? 1249 00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:39,839 >> I'm okay with that. 1250 00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:43,040 >> Is that is that good? Shall continue to 1251 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:48,319 be etc. Okay. Mr. Patel comment. 1252 00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:49,839 Yeah, we are we are happy with that. 1253 00:50:49,839 --> 00:50:50,400 That's 1254 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:51,839 >> you're acceptable. 1255 00:50:51,839 --> 00:50:57,520 >> Okay, good. All right. Uh so with the 1256 00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,599 added bullet with regard to the 1257 00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:01,119 memorandum regarding the water 1258 00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:03,359 allocation correction 1259 00:51:03,359 --> 00:51:07,599 um then I would propose the conversation 1260 00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:09,440 among the commissioners only as to 1261 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,520 regarding all of those there'll be five 1262 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,880 with the memorandum correction. All five 1263 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,040 are deemed minor conditions in such a 1264 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,040 proposed conditional approvement. 1265 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,680 Meaning again that those conditions 1266 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,760 would be monitored by the town staff and 1267 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,520 their determination as to the 1268 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,880 satisfaction and then once all those 1269 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,040 conditions have been met satisfactoryy 1270 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,079 to the town staff's 1271 00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:43,119 uh assessment then the final site plan 1272 00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,240 approval is issued. Uh, does any 1273 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,640 commissioner see any difference in those 1274 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,520 being minor 1275 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,680 or do you want any of these to circle 1276 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:58,079 back to this body for that assessment? 1277 00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:00,160 Commissioner Simmelsberger, you're 1278 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,359 itching to talk. 1279 00:52:01,359 --> 00:52:03,760 >> Which buildings are going to be required 1280 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,160 to have the sprinklers? 1281 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,559 The ones that have water connections and 1282 00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:10,160 the ones that don't will not have 1283 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,280 sprinklers, 1284 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,400 >> or do they all require sprinklers? 1285 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,160 I believe it's just buildings nine and 1286 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,040 10. Am I right? 1287 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,480 >> That's that's correct. And that'll be 1288 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,480 determined from Carol County when they 1289 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,599 go to get a building permit uh based on 1290 00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:27,440 their requirements. Again, we're not a fire protection engineer. 1291 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:27,839 >> Okay. 1292 00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:30,000 >> Um so that would defer to Carol County 1293 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,280 when they go through to get their 1294 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,000 building permits. um if it's required 1295 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,400 for their use um for flex industrial and 1296 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,400 warehouse then that's when they'll have 1297 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,680 to comply with that code and that code 1298 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,040 section through Carol County. 1299 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:45,920 >> Okay. 1300 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,520 >> As it says per building permit 1301 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,480 requirements. 1302 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,960 >> So rather than get specific, I I would 1303 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,720 think maybe just leave it general like 1304 00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:57,200 it's stated because we leave it to the 1305 00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,040 Carol County folks to decide the 1306 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,359 specific buildings. Uh this statement 1307 00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:04,880 says if they're required wherever in the 1308 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,200 final plan then they have to comply with 1309 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,640 that. Is that a fair 1310 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,000 >> That's correct. And we actually have a 1311 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,480 much stronger requirement on max square 1312 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,359 footage for warehouse buildings in Mount 1313 00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:16,960 Air compared to Carol County. 1314 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,640 >> I understand. 1315 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,319 >> Okay. But good question. 1316 00:53:20,319 --> 00:53:22,640 >> Yeah. My only qu the only concern was in 1317 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,800 the warehouses where they actually do 1318 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,640 the recycling or or whatever. Um, a lot 1319 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,079 of times they'll require them to have 1320 00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:31,680 sprinklers 1321 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,839 more so than just the flex warehouses. I 1322 00:53:33,839 --> 00:53:35,599 understand the flex warehouses, but if 1323 00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:40,960 they're doing an actual um some type of work in there a lot of time and 1324 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,480 you're having flammables inside the 1325 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,160 building. I know a lot of times they'll 1326 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,000 require the sprinklers, but Carol County 1327 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,599 will figure that out. I just didn't want 1328 00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:50,480 wanted to make sure it didn't change any 1329 00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,000 of the water allocations or the 1330 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,319 buildings that it's going to go to in 1331 00:53:54,319 --> 00:53:58,710 the future. 1332 00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:00,480 Okay. 1333 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,280 Um, is that is that a question or just Okay. 1334 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,720 >> Understood. Good. Um, 1335 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,400 okay. Uh, then I see five conditions and 1336 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,480 again I propose that they all would be 1337 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,720 regarded as minor according to the code 1338 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:19,680 giving the town staff the ability to 1339 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,880 monitor, assess, and render whether they 1340 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,319 are met satisfactorily. Any debate on 1341 00:54:26,319 --> 00:54:29,599 that hearing? None. I believe we've 1342 00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:31,760 exhausted uh our review of the final 1343 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:38,069 plan and the analysis of 1344 00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:40,240 and the um and the staff's 1345 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,079 recommendation with the changes we've 1346 00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:45,839 discussed. Uh so therefore, I'm going to 1347 00:54:45,839 --> 00:54:48,800 make the motion that the planning 1348 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,910 commission grant conditional approval 1349 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,200 Ju just made my job harder. 1350 00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,440 >> I'm sorry. 1351 00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:00,800 My bad. 1352 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,710 >> That's okay, John. 1353 00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:06,160 » My bad. Sorry, Ralph. 1354 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,920 >> That's all right, buddy. 1355 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,280 >> No, I probably won't power back. 1356 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:10,240 >> You got it. 1357 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,240 >> Yeah, you just have to scribble. 1358 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:13,280 >> I got it. We got her. 1359 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,119 >> I got it. So, uh, 1360 00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:18,880 scribble notwithstanding. I think I've 1361 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,160 got 1362 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,839 >> We're back up. 1363 00:55:21,839 --> 00:55:25,599 Okay. All right. So, um, once again, so 1364 00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:27,200 I make the motion that the planning 1365 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,960 commission grant conditional approval of 1366 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,800 the final site development plan for 1367 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,839 light 15C section 4 Twin Arch Business 1368 00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:36,800 Park for King Sports Construction with 1369 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,880 the following conditions of approval. 1370 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,599 First condition is to revise the 1371 00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:44,079 September 21st memorandum from the 1372 00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:46,640 engineering firm to reflect the correct 1373 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:51,200 water allocation of 1,727 1374 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,880 gallons per day. 1375 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,680 Number two, all town and county comments 1376 00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,520 must be addressed before any grading 1377 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,760 permit is approved or issued by the town 1378 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,200 of Mount Ary staff. Number three, 1379 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,440 provide all legal documents, easements, 1380 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,920 public works agreements, and bonding 1381 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,040 before any grading permit or building 1382 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,839 permit is approved or signed off by the 1383 00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:20,069 town of Mount Airy staff. 1384 00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:23,520 Number four is the sprinkler systems are 1385 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,920 required per NFPA13 1386 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,760 as per code section 60-7B1 1387 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,920 as per building permit requirements. 1388 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,880 And lastly, that all related materials 1389 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,559 for the recycling of turf fields shall 1390 00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:44,319 continue to be stored in waterproof bags 1391 00:56:44,319 --> 00:56:48,400 or undercover from exposure to the 1392 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,720 weather. Do I have a second for that 1393 00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:52,480 motion? 1394 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,200 >> I'll second. 1395 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,440 >> The motion is seconded by Commissioner 1396 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,599 Hatley. Is there any further discussion 1397 00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:01,520 on the motion and conditions made? 1398 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,240 Hearing 1399 00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:06,640 none. All those in favor of the mo of 1400 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,599 the motion for a conditional approval of 1401 00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:12,400 the final site plan for lot 15 C section 1402 00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,119 4, please say I. 1403 00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:16,000 >> I. 1404 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,440 >> Those opposed? 1405 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:18,720 >> Nay. 1406 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,599 >> Those who wish to abstain 1407 00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:24,480 the motion passes. 1408 00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:31,430 >> Thank you Mr. Patel. Miss King, 1409 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:32,400 » sorry. 1410 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,599 >> Oh, no, no, thank you. Thank you. Our 1411 00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:38,880 next agenda item is uh the Buffalo Road 1412 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,040 subdivision and open space waiver 1413 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,119 supporting documentation. 1414 00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:45,280 Um again, a bit of history on this from 1415 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,280 our previous August 31st meeting. Uh the 1416 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,799 question was raised as to the 1417 00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:52,960 commission's completion of the required 1418 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,760 open space waiver worksheet 1419 00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,000 as a part of the concept plan stage for 1420 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,359 this development. Uh the concept plan 1421 00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:06,640 stage was held 1422 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,359 July 28th, 2025. 1423 00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:12,319 >> Turn that off now. 1424 00:58:12,319 --> 00:58:14,720 >> You certainly 1425 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,520 >> I'm good. Thank you though. that that 1426 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:25,359 made it easier, John, honestly. Um so again, on Buffalo Roads worksheet 1427 00:58:25,359 --> 00:58:27,440 for the open space waiver, we completed 1428 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,200 the concept plan efforts on July 28th of 1429 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,319 2025. Uh at our last meeting, there was 1430 00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:36,559 a a rich debate as to whether that 1431 00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:39,599 worksheet had been completed, signed, 1432 00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:44,079 and recorded uh within the project file. 1433 00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:48,079 Um, I I wish to advise all the 1434 00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:50,559 commissioners that I met with the town 1435 00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:54,000 staff uh on uh this past Friday, the 1436 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:59,040 25th. Uh we pulled out the quote the 1437 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,079 code with regard to APFO certification 1438 00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:04,160 of which open space and recreation is 1439 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,920 one of the seven areas uh 25-5. We also 1440 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,440 pulled out uh 98-23 1441 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,760 which is the code specifically for 1442 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,559 allocating uh open space as a part of 1443 00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:18,720 any project or the developer providing 1444 00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,520 open space as a part of any project. Uh 1445 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,200 in that discussion uh and I will add 1446 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,040 that prior to that discussion we 1447 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,040 reviewed the July 28th video from uh 1448 00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,400 Carol Media Center. Uh we did complete 1449 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,799 that worksheet according to that video 1450 00:59:36,799 --> 00:59:39,280 record. We completed it with two 1451 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:44,240 corrections to be made and um in the 1452 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,400 meeting on Friday, we ascertained that 1453 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,799 it was an administrative error that um 1454 00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:52,640 the document simply needed to come 1455 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,680 forward that it had been approved by 1456 00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,240 this commission uh and that the 1457 00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,319 corrected version which was included in 1458 01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:02,400 all of the commissioners read ahead for 1459 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,799 this evening uh simply needed to be 1460 01:00:04,799 --> 01:00:08,559 signed by me as the recordation. of that 1461 01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:11,520 waiver completion and entered into the 1462 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:16,720 project file. Um, and if I can use the 1463 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,400 phrase put to bed, so to speak. So, I 1464 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,319 went ahead and signed it. You'll see the 1465 01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:25,040 one that was provided by John tonight on 1466 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,839 your on your seat. That's dated this 1467 01:00:27,839 --> 01:00:31,599 Friday, the 25th. Um, but I'm a 1468 01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:33,520 transparent kind of guy or try to be. 1469 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,480 And so, I will now I consider the matter 1470 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,720 closed. I'm I'm not looking for a motion 1471 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:40,480 or a vote on that because we had already 1472 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,079 done that on July 28th. Um, let me pause 1473 01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:45,599 before I turn to the commissioners. 1474 01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:49,280 John, do you wish to add anything? Did I misspeak on any matter? 1475 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,200 >> No, but I appreciate your time coming in 1476 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:52,880 and resolving that on Friday. 1477 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,799 >> Fantastic. Barney, I know you joined us 1478 01:00:54,799 --> 01:00:57,280 also because you manage open space. Um, 1479 01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,839 anything incorrect or you wish to add? 1480 01:00:59,839 --> 01:01:00,720 >> No. 1481 01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,079 >> Okay. All right then. Um are there any 1482 01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:06,559 questions then with regard to the signed 1483 01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:08,640 uh workspace 1484 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,920 uh worksheet open space worksheet? Thank 1485 01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,520 you. Any questions? Okay. So John, this 1486 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,000 will go in the project file. 1487 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:18,720 >> That's correct. 1488 01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,119 >> Along with the other six APFO 1489 01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:24,720 certifications that we completed back in 1490 01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:25,760 July. Okay. 1491 01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,280 >> Yes. 1492 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:32,079 Um with that then um we now turn to the 1493 01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:36,319 council's uh request that this body uh 1494 01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:39,680 deliberate on and offer a recommendation 1495 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,599 regarding draft ordinance 2026-25 1496 01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:48,079 on accessory dwelling units or ADUs. 1497 01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:50,720 Um, as background on this and as most of 1498 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,400 you read in your read ahead package, um, 1499 01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,599 this necessary amendment to our code was 1500 01:01:57,599 --> 01:02:00,880 driven by the state legislature in House 1501 01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,520 Bill 1466. 1502 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,960 And, uh, that was enacted on 1 October 1503 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,559 2025. 1504 01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:11,440 And in that legislation, it asks that 1505 01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,760 all municipalities 1506 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,559 um adjust their code accordingly to that 1507 01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:21,200 legislation by 1 October 2026. 1508 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,839 I'm going to go into a timeline question 1509 01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:26,480 here in a dialogue with both John and 1510 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,680 Tom McCarron. Um Mr. McCarron, I know 1511 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,440 that the state doesn't have a uh uh an 1512 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,520 enforcement, so to speak, upon the 1513 01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,680 municipalities that failed to meet one 1514 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,640 October. Uh that's my that's my simple 1515 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,400 view. Maybe there are a bunch of folks 1516 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,559 that'll run out there and bang on doors, 1517 01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:47,839 but I don't believe there is. Um and so 1518 01:02:47,839 --> 01:02:50,079 the question is asked simply or the 1519 01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:52,720 discussion is open as to how fast we 1520 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,160 need to provide our recommendation. Um, 1521 01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,480 this commission wants to be thorough. 1522 01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:02,640 Um, I never like to, you know, 1523 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,440 chase people along to get to a good 1524 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,200 piece of advice for the council's 1525 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,920 deliberation on this. Uh, so is it fair 1526 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,559 to say, uh, the code allows us 90 days? 1527 01:03:12,559 --> 01:03:15,119 I don't anticipate taking 90 days to do 1528 01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:18,640 this. Um, but, uh, your comment, sir, as 1529 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,880 to we got to get this done before the, 1530 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,440 let's say, the October uh, council 1531 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,319 meeting. I mean the the statute says 1532 01:03:26,319 --> 01:03:29,280 October 1st, 2026, 1533 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:34,640 but you know uh I cannot imagine uh 1534 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:36,559 great turmoil 1535 01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:39,760 should this pass go beyond that because 1536 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,359 you want more time to uh deliberate on 1537 01:03:43,359 --> 01:03:44,640 this and 1538 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:45,359 >> Okay. 1539 01:03:45,359 --> 01:03:47,520 >> My best advice would be to deliberate on 1540 01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,079 it. 1541 01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:51,039 >> Good. Gotcha. And so with that, I turn 1542 01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:54,480 to John uh and and council member Kelly. 1543 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,880 Are are you aware that there is an 1544 01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,400 expectation from the council that we 1545 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,400 have our recommendation in front of them 1546 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,000 for their October meeting? In other 1547 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,079 words, do you know whether it will be on 1548 01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:08,720 the agenda for the October meeting? And 1549 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,839 if it is, then we need to haste along. 1550 01:04:11,839 --> 01:04:15,119 >> I do not recall asking you to expedite. 1551 01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:15,440 Okay. 1552 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,200 >> Um I can check the draft agenda. I have 1553 01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,280 in my email to see if it's on there. 1554 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,280 >> Uh that that's that's 1555 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:24,160 >> I don't think so. 1556 01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:24,640 >> You 1557 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:25,839 >> I don't think so. I don't remember 1558 01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:26,640 seeing it either. 1559 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:28,559 >> You don't have to. I I think we have 1560 01:04:28,559 --> 01:04:31,039 some sense of relief that you know we we 1561 01:04:31,039 --> 01:04:34,960 can uh give it our full time and and 1562 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,240 provide um provide our opinions on this. 1563 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,720 Okay. So that covers the timeline 1564 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:46,160 reality of the mandate and um um 1565 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,200 we'll we'll do it uh we'll do it with uh 1566 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,319 without a lot of haste. Um 1567 01:04:52,319 --> 01:04:56,319 so what I'd like to do then is uh 1568 01:04:56,319 --> 01:04:58,160 hopefully each commissioner has had time 1569 01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,880 to go through the draft ordinance 1570 01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,280 2026-25. 1571 01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,440 Uh, I believe the town staff also 1572 01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,880 provided or recommended that there be uh 1573 01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,280 perhaps uh a quick look at the bill 1574 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,359 itself, HB 1466 1575 01:05:15,359 --> 01:05:18,000 uh for its language. And then I believe 1576 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,280 the town staff also provided us what uh 1577 01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,039 Carol County uh was exploring as their 1578 01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,039 adjustment to accommodate the 1579 01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:29,359 legislation regarding accessory dwelling 1580 01:05:29,359 --> 01:05:31,520 units. And so you had a bit of 1581 01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:33,520 background, so to speak, in order to now 1582 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,119 come and put eyes on the town's uh draft 1583 01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:40,400 amendment. Um, and so what I'd like to 1584 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,960 do is if you form some questions or 1585 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,079 opinions, um, I will go down the line 1586 01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:48,480 and pull you basically and give you the 1587 01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,880 opportunity to ask uh questions. Would 1588 01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,039 it be reasonable u, Mr. McCarron, the 1589 01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:55,599 questions be directed to you? 1590 01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:57,200 >> Sure. If they're legal. 1591 01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,280 >> Okay. Okay. 1592 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,240 The questions are questions to 1593 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,480 >> only a few of us are legal here, but no, 1594 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,880 I'm just kidding. Uh, no, that's fair. 1595 01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,599 Um, uh, so if you have questions, please 1596 01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:11,599 ask them in order to get to a 1597 01:06:11,599 --> 01:06:15,359 recommendation. Um, if you wish to close 1598 01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:18,079 your questions and comments with a final 1599 01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:20,400 determination of either approval or 1600 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,880 disapproval, uh, and by the way, the 1601 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,280 code does state that we have to provide 1602 01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,640 the council a recommendation of approval 1603 01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,359 or disapproval. In the past, we've given 1604 01:06:31,359 --> 01:06:33,599 recommendations that were couched in the 1605 01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:37,280 terms of favorable or unfavorable, but 1606 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,079 upon review of the code, uh, it does say 1607 01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:42,640 approval or disapproval. So anyway, if 1608 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:44,400 you could use those semantics, I would 1609 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:45,839 appreciate it. That's how it'll be 1610 01:06:45,839 --> 01:06:48,079 recorded. And again, if you feel 1611 01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:49,680 comfortable with rendering that 1612 01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,640 conclusion tonight, it will be recorded. 1613 01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,039 If you're not ready, then I will open 1614 01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:59,359 this agenda item again with John uh for 1615 01:06:59,359 --> 01:07:02,079 our October meeting and I will ask that 1616 01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:03,920 you have reached a conclusion for a 1617 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,119 recommendation at that date. Um so if we 1618 01:07:07,119 --> 01:07:09,440 can get your recommendation, that's 1619 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,160 great. If not, we'll look for it at the 1620 01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,319 next meeting. Is that fair rules of how 1621 01:07:14,319 --> 01:07:18,079 we want to do this? Any any suggestions 1622 01:07:18,079 --> 01:07:19,680 otherwise, 1623 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,280 Mr. McCarron? Is that 1624 01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,520 >> Looks good. Yep, that looks fine. Okay, 1625 01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,039 then if I may do that, um, and again, 1626 01:07:27,039 --> 01:07:30,160 uh, well, I'm not going to go into that. 1627 01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,839 So, what I'd like to do is uh Stephen, 1628 01:07:33,839 --> 01:07:36,319 um I'm going to ask that you start us 1629 01:07:36,319 --> 01:07:38,240 off if you have any questions about the 1630 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,599 draft ordinance or any conclusions. Uh 1631 01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:42,400 it's your time. 1632 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,079 >> Steve, can you pull the mic towards you 1633 01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:44,960 or 1634 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:50,960 >> um So, we already have code on accessory 1635 01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:52,799 apartments. So, this is specifically 1636 01:07:52,799 --> 01:07:55,119 more for 1637 01:07:55,119 --> 01:07:59,280 uh dwelling units, correct? Okay. So, 1638 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,839 um, there only a couple things that I 1639 01:08:01,839 --> 01:08:05,760 saw reading through that in our code 1640 01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,559 when we discussed the different 1641 01:08:08,559 --> 01:08:12,799 districts R1, R2, R3, etc. Um, it 1642 01:08:12,799 --> 01:08:14,960 specifically says that there is a 1643 01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,600 maximum density for each of those in in 1644 01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:22,560 other words, R1 is one dwelling. If we 1645 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,520 are going to allow an ADU, do do those 1646 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:27,440 districts need to be does the phrasing 1647 01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:28,880 need to be changed that they will be 1648 01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:32,080 allowed to have one dwelling plus one 1649 01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,600 ADU or not? I I don't know how that 1650 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:36,880 applies. 1651 01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,480 >> So, the way this is constructed at 1652 01:08:38,480 --> 01:08:40,880 least, and you can construct it probably 1653 01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,480 any number of ways. Um, this is set up 1654 01:08:44,480 --> 01:08:46,799 as a special exception. 1655 01:08:46,799 --> 01:08:50,400 So I don't think that the u 1656 01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:52,159 >> So it only has to list that a special 1657 01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:54,239 exception is allowed. That type of 1658 01:08:54,239 --> 01:08:56,239 special exception is allowed in the R1, 1659 01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:56,880 R2. 1660 01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:00,319 >> Yeah, R2 etc. 1661 01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:01,920 >> Okay. Then the only other thing that I 1662 01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:06,159 saw was um a couple issues with setbacks 1663 01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:08,880 as far as accessory structures 1664 01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,719 and ADUs. uh 11262 1665 01:09:12,719 --> 01:09:14,400 and ADU 1666 01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,759 is uh has a setback of 10 feet from the 1667 01:09:17,759 --> 01:09:20,880 side and rear lines whereas accessory 1668 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:22,960 structures are three and six foot 1669 01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:26,080 depending on whether they're 100 foot 1670 01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,000 100 square foot or less. So I don't know 1671 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,199 if that applies to anything. 1672 01:09:31,199 --> 01:09:33,120 So the only restriction that the state 1673 01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,080 code provides is you can't require any 1674 01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:41,920 greater setback than uh for uh the zone 1675 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,880 in which uh the principal residence is 1676 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,319 located. Um 1677 01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:52,560 but there's a lot of leeway obviously um 1678 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,840 you know within that. Um, so I think one 1679 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,600 of the points made was that uh the rear 1680 01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,120 um setback line on I believe every one 1681 01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,560 of the residential districts is 40 ft, 1682 01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,640 you know. So why say 10? Um you don't 1683 01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:12,480 have to say 10. The only thing that 1684 01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:14,640 probably should be considered then is 1685 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,120 remember you cannot 1686 01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:20,960 whatever this means uh unduly restrict 1687 01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:26,159 uh uh ADUs. you how many current single 1688 01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:29,440 family homes without an ADU already bump 1689 01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:32,320 up against the 40. And so as to if 1690 01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,840 you're going to require 40 for the ADU, 1691 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,159 you're basically negating that use for 1692 01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:40,560 those residential properties with single 1693 01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,120 family that already bump up against the 1694 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,679 40T. I don't know how many that is, but 1695 01:10:45,679 --> 01:10:47,679 it's something to consider. If it's a 1696 01:10:47,679 --> 01:10:50,000 lot, then obviously it leaves you open 1697 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,400 to the argument that you have unduly 1698 01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,719 regulated it and therefore don't make 1699 01:10:54,719 --> 01:10:58,080 many many of these properties candidates 1700 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,679 for uh an ADU. That that'd be the the 1701 01:11:01,679 --> 01:11:03,120 issue. 1702 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,360 >> Okay, that's all I had. Can I follow up 1703 01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,199 on that real quick what he was asking? 1704 01:11:07,199 --> 01:11:10,480 >> Sure. for Tom. Um, with the law that was 1705 01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:11,760 passed, 1706 01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,080 >> um, I think it was saying that the 1707 01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:15,600 section may not establish setback 1708 01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:17,840 requirements that exceed the existing 1709 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,920 accessory structure setback requirements 1710 01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,880 for the side and rear lot lines. 1711 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:31,750 >> It says, 1712 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,120 give me a second 1713 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,790 setbacks. 1714 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:40,719 Are you looking within the legislation? 1715 01:11:40,719 --> 01:11:49,030 >> Yeah. 1716 01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:50,800 » So, it's in um 1717 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,480 >> established setback requirements that 1718 01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:54,159 exceed the existing accessories 1719 01:11:54,159 --> 01:11:57,520 >> accessory. So, wouldn't aren't permitted 1720 01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,120 sheds accessories? 1721 01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:00,159 >> Yep. 1722 01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:02,400 >> And a permanent shed in the town of 1723 01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,800 Manor is six feet. 1724 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,960 So then the excess ADU would have to be 1725 01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:08,640 six feet. 1726 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,640 >> Minimum 1727 01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:12,960 >> the Yes, the minimum 1728 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,159 >> would be six feet. You can't be 10 1729 01:12:16,159 --> 01:12:19,040 unless the code changes. 1730 01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:29,430 I think did they address that with 1731 01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:32,000 » beds and garages whatever was 1732 01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,000 >> I think the the state law you can't 1733 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:35,280 restrict it more than what it is and 1734 01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,880 since we have it at six feet we minimum 1735 01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:39,760 six feet 1736 01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,960 >> you can't restrict the setback more than 1737 01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:44,960 >> but are we considering a shed in this 1738 01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,440 example as being a livable structure 1739 01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:48,880 sure that meets all the other 1740 01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,480 requirements for a dwelling unit. It's a 1741 01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:53,040 shed. 1742 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,520 >> I mean that there are a number of open 1743 01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,920 questions about this statute. I don't 1744 01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,840 know where it leaves us on many a front 1745 01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:01,760 like do we need a parking plant 1746 01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,040 >> as a town uh by way of example. 1747 01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,600 >> You know it's what it says the existing 1748 01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:09,280 accessory structure setback 1749 01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,880 requirements. So, you know, if if I 1750 01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,480 haven't looked, but assuming it's 1751 01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:16,480 correct that the accessory structure, 1752 01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:17,760 that's what it says. 1753 01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:18,719 >> I see your point, 1754 01:13:18,719 --> 01:13:20,719 >> then that probably should be six feet or 1755 01:13:20,719 --> 01:13:23,360 you change, you know, 1756 01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,600 >> but it's somewhat at 1757 01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,000 you may well have existing 1758 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:29,760 uh accessory structures that are within 1759 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,719 six feet, not 10 feet. If you change got 1760 01:13:32,719 --> 01:13:34,640 >> change that. So, I believe we 1761 01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,560 consolidate all these good comments by 1762 01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,440 saying it's 10 foot side yard and six 1763 01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:40,640 foot rear. 1764 01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,400 >> I think that's probably 1765 01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,640 >> I think it's six feet six. It should be 1766 01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,199 six feet either way. Sideyard or 1767 01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:48,640 >> side or it wouldn't matter. Yeah. 1768 01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:50,480 >> Yeah. It should be six feet. 1769 01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:51,520 >> Okay. So, 1770 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:53,679 >> because if not then we're now creating 1771 01:13:53,679 --> 01:13:56,400 non-conforming uses all over the town. 1772 01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:57,199 >> I'm with you. 1773 01:13:57,199 --> 01:13:58,080 >> Yeah. 1774 01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:02,480 >> And foot. I guess is a a a doorway to 1775 01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:05,440 non-conforming use. 1776 01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:08,080 >> Okay. And Commissioner Ali, we're going 1777 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,239 to continue with you. Any other 1778 01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:11,040 questions or 1779 01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:15,830 >> I I will give you my paper. 1780 01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:21,600 Um I I just saw a few things that with the lot lines and and the parking 1781 01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,320 rules um that don't conform to the state 1782 01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:26,960 law requirement. Um, and then also the 1783 01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,960 ADUs counting towards the density and 1784 01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,080 that need to be cleared up. And then not 1785 01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,159 addressing the state law, but some 1786 01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:38,960 issues that I saw that may come up and I 1787 01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,040 put them in here. But things we need to 1788 01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,080 think about is the height 1789 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:47,760 of the structures, privacy, 1790 01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,600 rentals, 1791 01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,719 owner occupancy and enforcement is not 1792 01:14:52,719 --> 01:14:55,840 in here. Um, they will definitely cause 1793 01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,159 complaints and disputes. Um, I put some 1794 01:14:58,159 --> 01:14:59,280 stuff in here about what other 1795 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:00,960 jurisdictions like Frederick and Carol 1796 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,239 are doing. Um, there's privacy like if 1797 01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:06,159 you have a ADU structure six foot from 1798 01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:08,560 your neighbor's wall, what kind of 1799 01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:10,719 windows are allowed? Are they high 1800 01:15:10,719 --> 01:15:13,840 windows, low windows? Um, 1801 01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,400 is if you have a two-story house, um, 1802 01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:17,920 can you go with the full two stories? 1803 01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,640 Are we doing 70% or single story? 1804 01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,040 though. And then how to measure the 1805 01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:24,400 square footage that we're doing. It's 1806 01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,120 not in there. Um but I have several 1807 01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:31,110 pages that I'll give you. 1808 01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:34,480 » And and Steve, if I may, um Steve has 1809 01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:37,120 provided those same comments to John and 1810 01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,920 myself. I I think we ought to kick them 1811 01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:43,199 out to all and and to 1812 01:15:43,199 --> 01:15:46,080 >> Yeah. So, if if we can, John, kick them 1813 01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,840 out to um council liaison and and the 1814 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:51,440 rest of us just to make sure everybody 1815 01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:54,239 can see what uh 1816 01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:56,159 Steve's comments are all about. Very 1817 01:15:56,159 --> 01:15:59,760 good. Okay. Um so, not ready for a 1818 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,280 recommendation. 1819 01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:04,960 >> Not ready, Steve, for a recommendation. 1820 01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:05,520 >> No. 1821 01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:07,600 >> Okay. 1822 01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,080 >> No, no, no, no, no. That's all good. I 1823 01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:11,600 was just making sure because I'm trying 1824 01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:12,960 to keep some notes here. I'll go back 1825 01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:16,159 and look at the video. Uh 1826 01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:18,159 Heather, your thoughts, questions? 1827 01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:20,320 >> Um I think Steve probably covered these 1828 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:25,040 already in his paper, but um I was also 1829 01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,159 looking at the um the parking thing and 1830 01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:30,320 requiring a a parking study of the 1831 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,400 applicant, which is adding cost for the 1832 01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:33,679 applicant, and I don't think that aligns 1833 01:16:33,679 --> 01:16:36,000 with the state. Um, and then the other 1834 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,320 one was, and again, I don't mind all 1835 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,360 these, just for the record, but looking 1836 01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,679 at compatibility with the state, um, 1837 01:16:43,679 --> 01:16:45,360 making sure that the ADUs are 1838 01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,600 architecturally compatible. I don't 1839 01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:48,800 think that's I don't think you're 1840 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:50,400 allowed to be super picky on that 1841 01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:51,520 either. There might be something with 1842 01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:53,040 HOAs, but I thought I read something 1843 01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:56,880 about that um, as well. So, yeah, I 1844 01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:58,159 mean, it's basically trying to make it 1845 01:16:58,159 --> 01:17:00,159 as least as least restrictive as 1846 01:17:00,159 --> 01:17:02,400 possible. So, yeah. 1847 01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:05,600 >> On the parking study as one one could 1848 01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,760 read the state statutes requiring a town 1849 01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:10,640 >> yes 1850 01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,480 >> park and study now I I don't think 1851 01:17:12,480 --> 01:17:14,560 anybody has a good concept of what that 1852 01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,360 is because from property to property to 1853 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,000 property is going to be very different 1854 01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,480 >> the way Tonytown at least tackled this 1855 01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:24,400 and it's the way therefore Hamstead 1856 01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,280 tackled it and hence what's in here just 1857 01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:30,960 by way of suggestion is is that if 1858 01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,080 somebody wishes to deviate or gain some 1859 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:36,719 waiver of the parking requirements, then 1860 01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:38,800 the onus would be on them before this 1861 01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,880 body to justify why it is they want it 1862 01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,199 >> presumably by means of a more specific 1863 01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:48,480 traffic or uh I'm sorry, parking study u 1864 01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:50,640 relative to their property uh 1865 01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:52,719 individually. 1866 01:17:52,719 --> 01:17:55,840 I will thoroughly confess that I'm not 1867 01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:59,120 certain that that's what the state code 1868 01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,280 contemplates. Although I will also say 1869 01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:03,840 I'm not sure what the state code's 1870 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,640 talking about where it says the towns to 1871 01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,840 do a parking study for the whole town. 1872 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,920 >> Well, that's what it sounded like. 1873 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,440 >> My my theory is that they're trying to 1874 01:18:15,440 --> 01:18:18,400 >> not have the applicant do anything with 1875 01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:20,560 parking. Yes. that if the town has a 1876 01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:21,920 problem, that's the town's problem, not 1877 01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:22,320 theirs. 1878 01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:22,640 >> Yeah. 1879 01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:24,320 >> And that on street parking as well 1880 01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:25,199 counts and all that. 1881 01:18:25,199 --> 01:18:26,560 >> I think that's a reasonable reading of 1882 01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:26,960 that. 1883 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,960 >> And I read a lot of other counties are 1884 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:30,239 just getting rid of the parking 1885 01:18:30,239 --> 01:18:31,760 requirement all together because they 1886 01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:33,280 don't want to get tangled up in that. 1887 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,120 So, 1888 01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:37,120 >> yeah. And and and I'll just jump in 1889 01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,280 here. I recall John, you also and 1890 01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:41,280 Martine also, there was an ADU task 1891 01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:42,960 force 1892 01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:45,360 several months ago and it was a series 1893 01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,840 of Zooms that were led by the Maryland 1894 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,560 Department of Planning and if I recall 1895 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:54,960 accurately, uh, parking and separate 1896 01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,719 utility metering were probably the two 1897 01:18:58,719 --> 01:19:02,480 hottest items that just kept coming back 1898 01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:04,880 into the conversation as to what do we 1899 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,360 want the state to really mandate. 1900 01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:11,040 in those two very specific areas. Very 1901 01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:14,080 important, right? Both bringing cost to 1902 01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:18,480 a study uh to the town um and and impact 1903 01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:20,159 to the community when you start talking 1904 01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:22,960 about, you know, doubling your driveway 1905 01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,600 space next to your neighbor, right? That 1906 01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:29,040 sort of thing. Um so the parking issue 1907 01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:32,159 resonates with just longstanding rough 1908 01:19:32,159 --> 01:19:34,159 edges on this uh bill. You want to add 1909 01:19:34,159 --> 01:19:34,960 anything, John? 1910 01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,719 >> Yeah. I mean, my my big concern, and I 1911 01:19:36,719 --> 01:19:37,920 brought that up in the meeting, is 1912 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:40,400 again, look at how much we dealt with 1913 01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:43,040 lot 15 and water allocation. So, we now 1914 01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,440 have an existing a new use 1915 01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:48,080 >> that's going to impact Barney's chart. 1916 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,880 And we also have I have concerns about 1917 01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:52,640 um you know, how are they getting the 1918 01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:53,760 water to their property? Are they 1919 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,520 extending services from their existing 1920 01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:56,960 house? How are they getting rid of that 1921 01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:58,800 waste water uh when they're done with 1922 01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:00,239 it? You know, are they tying it in 1923 01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:02,159 through the existing system? In my 1924 01:20:02,159 --> 01:20:03,679 understanding, it almost has to be its 1925 01:20:03,679 --> 01:20:06,480 own separate connection, but but again, 1926 01:20:06,480 --> 01:20:08,400 then that's, you know, they're going to 1927 01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:09,679 have to tie into the main. They're going 1928 01:20:09,679 --> 01:20:11,679 to have to So, I'm not sure exactly how 1929 01:20:11,679 --> 01:20:13,120 we're going to have to handle that. 1930 01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:13,440 >> Yeah. 1931 01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:15,120 >> You know, what you know, and I guess I 1932 01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:16,400 would defer to Barney on that because 1933 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,320 it's, you know, water and sewer is him. 1934 01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,520 >> How do we handle that, Barney? 1935 01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,280 >> Existing code says you have to have a 1936 01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:26,800 separate water and sewer connection, but 1937 01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,480 this may be different. So that's just 1938 01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:32,080 existing code 1939 01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:34,080 >> because again that's an additional undue 1940 01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,080 burden that we're not supposed to put 1941 01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,000 onto these ADUs 1942 01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,520 >> for those connections and returns. 1943 01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,480 >> I just the name accessory 1944 01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:48,239 dwelling unit. You know that's like 1945 01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:50,159 >> do you prefer granny shed? That's the 1946 01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:50,960 other term I've heard. 1947 01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,600 >> Well I mean it's they 1948 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,040 >> what's an accessory to the 1949 01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:56,000 >> it's a separate dwelling 1950 01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,280 >> primary structure. I mean, it's a 1951 01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,360 separate dwelling all in itself with it 1952 01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:03,840 with its own power. I mean, it's it's a basically it's it's a tiny house. 1953 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:05,040 Let's say that 1954 01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,840 >> it's a tiny house that's next to a real 1955 01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,679 house 1956 01:21:09,679 --> 01:21:11,199 and it if they want it separately 1957 01:21:11,199 --> 01:21:12,719 metered in separate parking, that's 1958 01:21:12,719 --> 01:21:14,560 going to be difficult unless they have a 1959 01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:16,159 large driveway like we said and then 1960 01:21:16,159 --> 01:21:17,520 it's going to make your job more 1961 01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,960 difficult and it's going to, you know, 1962 01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:22,960 >> impact on infrastructure and things like 1963 01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:24,080 that. 1964 01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:26,000 >> I'm g I'm going to let you continue. Uh, 1965 01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,000 Brian, but before do you are you ready 1966 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:31,520 for a recommendation at this point? 1967 01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,520 >> I I wouldn't recommend it as written 1968 01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:34,880 because there's a lot of issues I think 1969 01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,320 that still need to be addressed. 1970 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,440 >> So, disapproval at this point. Okay. I'm 1971 01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:40,000 just 1972 01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:40,800 >> No, it's it's 1973 01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:41,920 >> I'm keeping the scorecard here. 1974 01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:43,440 >> Agreeing with everybody as well. 1975 01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,679 >> Gotcha. And so, 1976 01:21:45,679 --> 01:21:48,080 >> my apologies for for jumping in. 1977 01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:49,360 >> It's okay. I was actually done my 1978 01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:50,640 thought. 1979 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:52,480 >> Okay. 1980 01:21:52,480 --> 01:21:54,639 And and are you ready to make a 1981 01:21:54,639 --> 01:21:56,239 recommendation at this juncture or 1982 01:21:56,239 --> 01:21:57,600 continue through next month? 1983 01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:58,159 >> Continue. 1984 01:21:58,159 --> 01:22:02,639 >> Okay, gotcha. Um, Commissioner Hedley, 1985 01:22:02,639 --> 01:22:05,440 >> I would just like I'm I've been looking 1986 01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:07,280 at this issue for a very long time and 1987 01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:09,440 I've seen different solutions. Like my 1988 01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:11,520 neighbor's house actually has a twocar 1989 01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,600 garage with 1990 01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,520 they call it the back house, but it had 1991 01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,760 a toilet and it, you know, served as 1992 01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:19,360 somebody's office, but it could be 1993 01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:22,000 turned into it's already existing. So, 1994 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,400 I'm just wondering if we take a look at 1995 01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:25,679 everything around town, how does 1996 01:22:25,679 --> 01:22:27,360 everybody feel about pre-approved 1997 01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:28,880 designs 1998 01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,199 to maybe settle all of the issues and 1999 01:22:31,199 --> 01:22:33,199 concerns that we have? Like if if a 2000 01:22:33,199 --> 01:22:34,560 citizen comes in and says, "I need to do 2001 01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:36,000 an ADU." We could say, "Here are your 2002 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,159 five choices." And it has like the, you 2003 01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:40,239 know, American Disabilities requirement. 2004 01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:41,760 It's already talked about parking. It's 2005 01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:43,840 got sprinklers. It's got the 800 square 2006 01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:45,760 feet. Um, 2007 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,080 >> so like a design guideline specific to 2008 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:49,120 ADUs. 2009 01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:51,280 >> Yes. And just something that would be 2010 01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:53,280 sort of simplifying the process, you 2011 01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:55,040 know, reasonable choices. Everybody has 2012 01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:56,639 different needs, that sort of thing. But 2013 01:22:56,639 --> 01:22:58,880 it would give our town staff a chance to 2014 01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:00,800 say, "Hey, this is what we would like to 2015 01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:02,639 see. this would make, you know, maybe it 2016 01:23:02,639 --> 01:23:05,840 makes Barney's water and sewer issue 2017 01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,159 easier and and I don't know, I just 2018 01:23:08,159 --> 01:23:09,440 thought I'd throw that out there if we 2019 01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:11,040 could just sort of have a simplified, 2020 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,719 you know, five or six or whatever 2021 01:23:12,719 --> 01:23:14,560 choices. And then 2022 01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:18,080 >> plus we'd also avoid 2023 01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,320 um, for lack of a better word, ugly 2024 01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:22,159 aesthetics sitting in somebody's 2025 01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:24,080 backyard that we don't maybe, you know, 2026 01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:25,440 somebody says, "Oh, I've got this 2027 01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:27,120 really," you know. 2028 01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:29,120 >> Yeah, I'm not so sure that that's a 2029 01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,679 great suggestion. Um because as as I 2030 01:23:31,679 --> 01:23:33,199 understand the legislation, there's 2031 01:23:33,199 --> 01:23:35,280 three flavors of these ADUs. That's an 2032 01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,440 ADU that exists within the existing 2033 01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:39,679 dwelling structure. 2034 01:23:39,679 --> 01:23:42,000 >> It's kind of like modifying the current 2035 01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:43,280 perimeter. 2036 01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:45,600 >> Number two is you add on to that 2037 01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,000 existing structure. You extend it out in 2038 01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,159 some direction to add a room, bedroom, 2039 01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:53,840 kitchenet, whatever. Um and by the way, 2040 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:55,280 that addition has to have its own 2041 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,280 separate entrance. I I saw that in the 2042 01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:59,840 legislation. Um, and then third, it's 2043 01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:01,600 wholly apart from the single family 2044 01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:03,120 dwelling. It's somewhere on the 2045 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,520 property, uh, within the allowed 2046 01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:09,199 setbacks, but it's a self-contained, you 2047 01:24:09,199 --> 01:24:13,199 know, structure that is, uh, a dwelling. 2048 01:24:13,199 --> 01:24:18,800 Um, and so I think your suggestion is we would look to kind of treating all 2049 01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,840 three flavors as the possible ADU 2050 01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,000 options for some property owner is is 2051 01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:25,600 kind of what you're saying. I'm not so 2052 01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,920 sure that would be a part of this text 2053 01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:29,520 for the ordinance. 2054 01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,199 >> Yeah. Well, 2055 01:24:31,199 --> 01:24:32,080 >> or 2056 01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:33,760 >> probably if you wanted to make it really 2057 01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:35,280 complicated, 2058 01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:37,600 >> I I would say probably not. 2059 01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:39,360 >> Yeah. I mean, maybe at some point down 2060 01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:41,840 the road if such a uh is if such a 2061 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,719 design guideline specific to ADUs was 2062 01:24:44,719 --> 01:24:47,600 created approved by the council, then an 2063 01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:49,920 amendment to this proposed text could 2064 01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:51,840 then maybe have a sentence that points 2065 01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,040 to it. you shall do an ADU in accordance 2066 01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:58,159 with um you know the town code, the 2067 01:24:58,159 --> 01:24:59,920 planning administrator and the design 2068 01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:02,000 guidelines. Something that would be kind 2069 01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,880 of where we would circle back to the uh 2070 01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:10,960 ordinance amendment. Um but no, it's a good idea. Um any other input or 2071 01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:12,080 questions for 2072 01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:17,750 >> Well, I I'm read 2073 01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:19,280 paper. 2074 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,600 >> Okay. So, so you're not ready for a 2075 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:24,639 recommendation at this point and u read 2076 01:25:24,639 --> 01:25:28,560 uh Steve's good input too. Okay. So, 2077 01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:30,000 Commissioner Buts, your thoughts, 2078 01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,400 questions to Mr. McCarron. 2079 01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,719 >> I can't improve upon the these excellent 2080 01:25:34,719 --> 01:25:36,960 ideas and suggestions. I like the 2081 01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:39,600 continuity and consistency as much as 2082 01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:40,480 possible. 2083 01:25:40,480 --> 01:25:40,800 >> Okay. 2084 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,120 >> I think that would be appropriate, you 2085 01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:46,000 know, to try to be as consistent as we 2086 01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,560 can. 2087 01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,280 And uh I take that to it's premature to 2088 01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:53,600 have a decision from you at this point. 2089 01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,960 No decision. Gotcha. Okay. 2090 01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:01,840 Um then that leaves me and um 2091 01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,040 I did have some premeating interaction 2092 01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:07,360 with uh with Tom on some of my 2093 01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:08,800 questions. So we ought to be able to 2094 01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:10,800 fasttrack some of these items, Tom, if 2095 01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,080 that's uh fair. Um I did have a question 2096 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:15,600 just for the good of the group. He's 2097 01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,520 convinced me that it's not a concern. 2098 01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,639 But I did raise a concern with Tom as to 2099 01:26:20,639 --> 01:26:23,600 the cover sheet for this proposed text 2100 01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:26,239 uh appropriately addresses all of our 2101 01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:29,520 quote residential districts re 2102 01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,120 conservation R1, etc., etc. However, as 2103 01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:36,560 most of you know, there is a residential 2104 01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:38,719 allowed use within, believe it or not, 2105 01:26:38,719 --> 01:26:42,400 an NP property. So the MP district, as 2106 01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:44,239 you know, takes an existing structure 2107 01:26:44,239 --> 01:26:47,120 and transforms it, converts it, whatever 2108 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,000 the right word is, into a commercial 2109 01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,760 use. Okay? And it's a less intensive use 2110 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,639 than light commercial. And that's why MP 2111 01:26:56,639 --> 01:26:58,480 was developed so that we could use these 2112 01:26:58,480 --> 01:27:00,560 old buildings, come up with some 2113 01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:03,600 professional commercial use that's less 2114 01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:07,280 intense than making that building get 2115 01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:11,120 raised and then building a typical 2116 01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:12,960 office building, professional building 2117 01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,600 to accommodate that commercial use. Um, 2118 01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,080 but our code does allow a residential 2119 01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:22,159 use within those. Now, in the spirit of 2120 01:27:22,159 --> 01:27:26,080 and I'm going to channel the legislature 2121 01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:28,239 here, which is a dangerous thing to 2122 01:27:28,239 --> 01:27:32,719 attempt, but um I I believe their focus 2123 01:27:32,719 --> 01:27:35,199 on ADUs was in current strictly 2124 01:27:35,199 --> 01:27:37,760 residential districts, and that there 2125 01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:39,679 wasn't an interest, nor is there an 2126 01:27:39,679 --> 01:27:42,560 interest with having an ADU suddenly be 2127 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,040 constructed as a part of an MP approved 2128 01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:48,080 structure. um even though the code says 2129 01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:51,360 you can live in that new business as a 2130 01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:54,239 residential use. So, uh anything to add 2131 01:27:54,239 --> 01:27:55,920 to that conclusion? So, in other words, 2132 01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:57,760 my my conclusion is I raised the 2133 01:27:57,760 --> 01:27:59,840 question about MP being included in this 2134 01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,480 new text. Uh I don't believe it's 2135 01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:05,679 appropriate, nor is it included. Um any 2136 01:28:05,679 --> 01:28:06,159 comment? 2137 01:28:06,159 --> 01:28:08,159 >> Yeah, it's not included as currently 2138 01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:10,400 written. Um 2139 01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:12,400 other municipalities have kind of gone 2140 01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,120 either way. Um I know of one at least 2141 01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:18,320 that basically says wherever residential 2142 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:21,360 property exists and in that town it 2143 01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,760 doesn't just exist in the residential 2144 01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,679 there are some non-conforming uses for 2145 01:28:25,679 --> 01:28:27,920 instance in some of the commercial zones 2146 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:29,760 says that those properties are eligible 2147 01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:31,440 for an ADU. 2148 01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:31,920 >> Wow. 2149 01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:36,960 >> Um um in this case uh I as drafted did 2150 01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,920 not include it uh as an option in the NP 2151 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:44,080 district because um uh it just seemed at 2152 01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:46,480 odds with the purpose of the NP district 2153 01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:50,400 which is to really phase out over time 2154 01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:53,040 obviously in an orderly fashion 2155 01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:55,120 residential use in favor of commercial 2156 01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:58,400 use and so is it consistent with the MP 2157 01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:00,800 purposes that you have here to now 2158 01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,280 introduce another means of 2159 01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:03,760 >> right 2160 01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:06,000 >> of uh expanding if you will a 2161 01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:09,280 residential use in the NP people may 2162 01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,000 disagree with that you can write it any 2163 01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,199 way you to write it. 2164 01:29:13,199 --> 01:29:15,040 >> It would be kind of in in the short 2165 01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:16,800 phrase that I kind of arrive at, it 2166 01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:19,040 would be going backwards now into the 2167 01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,120 original structure, whereas you've 2168 01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:24,239 already made a commitment to convert it 2169 01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:26,560 into primarily a commercial enterprise. 2170 01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:27,600 Is that accurate? 2171 01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:29,760 >> That's how I read the first three 2172 01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:31,440 purposes of the 2173 01:29:31,440 --> 01:29:34,000 >> Okay. So, MP off the table as far as as 2174 01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,320 far as my question. Um, my second 2175 01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:39,199 question was placing all of the new text 2176 01:29:39,199 --> 01:29:42,560 into the special exceptions category of 2177 01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:46,159 all these uh, residential districts um, 2178 01:29:46,159 --> 01:29:48,320 just seemed a bit odd because the state 2179 01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:52,239 is saying it's a permitted use. You must 2180 01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:55,280 permit an ADU. Um, and so it kind of 2181 01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:56,960 caught my eye that we were now going to 2182 01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:58,560 regard this as something that had to 2183 01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,040 come through an application for an ADU 2184 01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:02,159 would have to come through the planning 2185 01:30:02,159 --> 01:30:03,440 commission, as you know, for 2186 01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:05,679 recommendation to the board of appeals 2187 01:30:05,679 --> 01:30:08,639 in the board of appeals authorizing that 2188 01:30:08,639 --> 01:30:13,280 ADU and that new use. Um, and so we had 2189 01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:15,199 a give and take as to is it more 2190 01:30:15,199 --> 01:30:17,440 appropriate to put these under permitted 2191 01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:19,600 uses that you know exist under every 2192 01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,440 district. you have permitted uses and 2193 01:30:21,440 --> 01:30:23,280 then you have and I think in some of the 2194 01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:25,840 taxonomy it says allowable use but 2195 01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:30,080 permitted allowable and then you have a paragraph under each district that 2196 01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:33,679 says special exceptions. Um and and so 2197 01:30:33,679 --> 01:30:36,080 again I turn to you special exception is 2198 01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:37,920 the appropriate place to put this new 2199 01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:38,480 text. 2200 01:30:38,480 --> 01:30:41,360 >> Well, you can make them permitted uses 2201 01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:43,920 of right. Uh what I will say about that 2202 01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,840 is that special exceptions or 2203 01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:47,760 conditional uses as they're sometimes 2204 01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:50,719 referred to are permitted uses. They are 2205 01:30:50,719 --> 01:30:52,320 permitted under the code. The general 2206 01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:54,480 assembly, I'm sorry, the the uh 2207 01:30:54,480 --> 01:30:56,719 legislative body, the local government 2208 01:30:56,719 --> 01:30:59,440 has said this is a permitted use within 2209 01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:01,760 a particular zone. In this case, the res 2210 01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,760 it would be the residential zone. It's 2211 01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,239 just that it's a conditional use subject 2212 01:31:06,239 --> 01:31:08,239 to approval by the board of appeals. 2213 01:31:08,239 --> 01:31:09,760 >> Board of appeals. Again, other 2214 01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:11,360 municipalities have done different 2215 01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:13,760 things with this. Tony Town has done 2216 01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,080 sort of a hybrid. I think for the very 2217 01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,639 higher density residential districts, 2218 01:31:18,639 --> 01:31:20,719 they have made this a special exception. 2219 01:31:20,719 --> 01:31:25,520 For our 10 maybe or 20 and above, they 2220 01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,440 make it a permitted use of right. Why 2221 01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:32,960 would uh a special exception uh perhaps 2222 01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:36,880 be something advisable? Uh uh well 2223 01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,040 because you are superimposing on 2224 01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:41,760 existing districts not all of the 2225 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:45,440 properties necessarily being equal or 2226 01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:47,520 great candidates for this and others 2227 01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,280 being lesser candidates for this in 2228 01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:51,679 terms of the impacts on neighboring 2229 01:31:51,679 --> 01:31:56,000 property. Um so uh if you're going to 2230 01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,639 permit it as a right in a in any 2231 01:31:58,639 --> 01:32:01,600 particular res residential zone why it's 2232 01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,480 going to be eligible on every single 2233 01:32:04,480 --> 01:32:08,000 property without really any oversight 2234 01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,480 about that except through the planning 2235 01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:15,120 you know the the consequences. 2236 01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:17,520 The reason that special exception I 2237 01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,920 think has been found uh particularly 2238 01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,639 helpful in that regard is because the 2239 01:32:22,639 --> 01:32:24,719 board of appeals has to approve a 2240 01:32:24,719 --> 01:32:27,280 special exception. And so the very thing 2241 01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:28,960 in fact the most important thing that a 2242 01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:32,239 board of appeals does in that regard is 2243 01:32:32,239 --> 01:32:35,040 determine whether under state law a 2244 01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:37,040 special exception should or shouldn't be 2245 01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,280 granted in a particular case. And there 2246 01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,159 is a test for that set forth in case 2247 01:32:42,159 --> 01:32:45,520 law. And that is is the proposed special 2248 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:49,840 exception use more uh adversely 2249 01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:52,719 impactful on the particular property at 2250 01:32:52,719 --> 01:32:54,320 issue 2251 01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:56,480 by virtue of something unique to that 2252 01:32:56,480 --> 01:32:59,040 property, its topography, its access to 2253 01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,679 public roads, its size, its 2254 01:33:01,679 --> 01:33:04,719 configuration versus other parcels 2255 01:33:04,719 --> 01:33:06,880 within the same district. 2256 01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:09,120 >> So uh and this probably to your next 2257 01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:10,880 question as well. Why does it say that 2258 01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:13,840 the board of appeals may uh approve? 2259 01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:15,360 It's because the board of appeals 2260 01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:18,320 doesn't have to approve. They there are 2261 01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:20,480 instances where a board of appeals can 2262 01:33:20,480 --> 01:33:22,719 say this is not appropriate on this 2263 01:33:22,719 --> 01:33:24,639 particular property because on this 2264 01:33:24,639 --> 01:33:28,400 particular property the use proposed is 2265 01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,679 much more adversely impactful than on 2266 01:33:31,679 --> 01:33:33,920 other parcels within the same zoning 2267 01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:37,280 district. And we can't mitigate that. We 2268 01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:40,320 don't believe that that is mitigatable. 2269 01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:42,239 Um so um 2270 01:33:42,239 --> 01:33:44,320 >> so the cate so the category of special 2271 01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:46,239 exception and the language where the 2272 01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:50,560 board of appeals may not shall but may 2273 01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:54,719 um in your view doesn't um 2274 01:33:54,719 --> 01:33:56,960 doesn't run headlong into the spirit 2275 01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:00,880 intended from the from the house bill as 2276 01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,360 undue obstacle and all that. 2277 01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:05,199 >> Not in my opinion. And I would add to 2278 01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:08,800 that as I said in the email um if you 2279 01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:12,880 look at uh solar uh the the statute that 2280 01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:16,239 the state passed relative to solar 2281 01:34:16,239 --> 01:34:19,760 uh for capacities uh I forget the exact 2282 01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:22,719 threshold but a capacity below a certain 2283 01:34:22,719 --> 01:34:25,440 level where um the public service 2284 01:34:25,440 --> 01:34:27,840 commission would have to review uh for 2285 01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:31,920 instance uh uh more significantly 2286 01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:34,560 that state statute specifically ally 2287 01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:37,040 says a local government may not make it 2288 01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:42,159 a special exception. So I take from that when the general assembly wants to 2289 01:34:42,159 --> 01:34:44,080 say you may not make it a special 2290 01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:47,360 exception, they know how to say it, they 2291 01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:50,639 did not say that in the final uh HB1 2292 01:34:50,639 --> 01:34:53,920 1466 that got passed and signed. 2293 01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:56,880 >> Okay. U my next question was with regard 2294 01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:59,440 to the uh proposed amendments to the 2295 01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:01,520 special exceptions paragraph within the 2296 01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:03,920 code 11262. 2297 01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:07,520 um F um and and this proposes that we 2298 01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:11,520 add a new uh sub paragraph 31 uh that 2299 01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:18,000 addresses the new ADU language. Um and and so as I went into that, I looked 2300 01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:20,880 and I saw that we have sub paragraph 17 2301 01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,159 on family apartments. And then we have 2302 01:35:24,159 --> 01:35:27,920 subp paragraph 21 which also uh is 2303 01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:30,560 proposed and and that remains in and 2304 01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,520 then we have 21 which is addressed as 2305 01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:36,400 accessory apartments. And so my only 2306 01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:39,760 question to Mr. McCarron was um if 2307 01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:41,760 2026-25 2308 01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:44,400 flies then special exceptions will have 2309 01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:47,280 a paragraph on family apartments, 2310 01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:50,000 accessory apartments, and then now the 2311 01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:52,000 new text on ADUs. And I was just 2312 01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,159 wondering aloud, 2313 01:35:54,159 --> 01:35:56,080 isn't family apartments the same as an 2314 01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:59,120 ADU? Isn't a accessory apartment the 2315 01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:01,199 same as an ADU? Would it be wiser to 2316 01:36:01,199 --> 01:36:03,440 consolidate 2317 01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:07,440 those two existing into a new come one 2318 01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:10,960 come all covers every base ADU kind of 2319 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,840 language or uh do we need to keep family 2320 01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:15,760 and accessories separate? 2321 01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:18,800 >> Well, you you certainly may. So, I was 2322 01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:20,800 trying to be somewhat minimalist in 2323 01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:22,159 terms of the 2324 01:36:22,159 --> 01:36:24,320 >> wrecking ball that one would take to the 2325 01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:25,280 code. Okay. 2326 01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:26,880 >> So, I was trying to work within the 2327 01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:28,880 framework. we actually were ahead of a 2328 01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:31,360 number of towns and that we had an 2329 01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:34,000 accessory apartment uh concept. A lot of 2330 01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,400 towns didn't even have that going into 2331 01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:41,040 this exercise. Um but having said that 2332 01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:45,119 um I mean yes you could you could 2333 01:36:45,119 --> 01:36:48,000 certainly consolidate those things just 2334 01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,880 understand that um these specific 2335 01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:55,440 standards are passed uh and adhere to 2336 01:36:55,440 --> 01:36:57,199 particular 2337 01:36:57,199 --> 01:36:59,679 special exceptions because the general 2338 01:36:59,679 --> 01:37:03,199 I'm sorry the u the legislative body has 2339 01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:06,800 determined that you know this is how we 2340 01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:08,239 need to mitigate 2341 01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:11,119 more impactful uses through the special 2342 01:37:11,119 --> 01:37:14,000 exception. And so they what comes with 2343 01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:16,080 that is bootstrapped with that are 2344 01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:17,679 specific standards that must be 2345 01:37:17,679 --> 01:37:20,159 established at the board of appeals with 2346 01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:23,520 which the proposed use will comply. 2347 01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:25,760 There may be specific standards that are 2348 01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:27,760 very unique to family apartments that 2349 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:29,920 maybe aren't as great a concern with a 2350 01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:33,280 single family separated ADU, 2351 01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,920 vice versa, uh or an accessory 2352 01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:38,639 apartment, things of that sort. Uh you 2353 01:37:38,639 --> 01:37:41,760 might not require the same the parking 2354 01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:43,840 >> for for a uh 2355 01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:45,840 >> uh an accessory apartment by way of 2356 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,239 example that you would for a completely 2357 01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:51,040 separate single family home. 2358 01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:54,639 >> Okay. Um and and this good conversation 2359 01:37:54,639 --> 01:37:57,520 has invoked uh another question and that 2360 01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:00,560 is um as a special exception that has 2361 01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:04,400 the uh in step with the board of 2362 01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:05,440 appeals. 2363 01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:05,840 >> Yes. 2364 01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:08,560 >> Where they may authorize that it would 2365 01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:09,600 still come through the planning 2366 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:10,560 commission. Correct. 2367 01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:13,600 >> Right. If it's a separate structure ADU 2368 01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:16,320 flavor that that third of the three that 2369 01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:18,800 I described uh that structure would 2370 01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:21,840 require a site plan I would imagine 2371 01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:23,600 >> I I believe so 2372 01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:25,040 >> and and so for 2373 01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:27,760 >> located uh that it's going to be within 2374 01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:28,960 setbacks etc. 2375 01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,119 >> Right. And so in that case for that 2376 01:38:31,119 --> 01:38:34,239 particular flavor of ADU none of the 2377 01:38:34,239 --> 01:38:37,679 current site plan process would be 2378 01:38:37,679 --> 01:38:41,679 adjusted. we'd still play the role with 2379 01:38:41,679 --> 01:38:44,400 or would we? I guess that's my question. 2380 01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:47,840 I mean they we don't give that role that 2381 01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:50,960 we have to the board of appeals. I don't 2382 01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:52,000 believe 2383 01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:53,600 >> no. Right. 2384 01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:55,280 >> The board of appeals is going to be 2385 01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:57,280 concerned with simply is the use 2386 01:38:57,280 --> 01:38:58,719 appropriate 2387 01:38:58,719 --> 01:39:00,159 >> this particular property. 2388 01:39:00,159 --> 01:39:02,400 >> Gotcha. And perhaps then part of them 2389 01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,400 reaching that decision, they may or may 2390 01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:07,600 not have our review and deliberation on 2391 01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:10,320 a site plan for that flavor. Is that 2392 01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:10,960 fair? 2393 01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,639 >> Right. And it's probably reverse 2394 01:39:12,639 --> 01:39:14,880 engineered in the sense that the 2395 01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:17,600 specific standards are going to curtail 2396 01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,800 or limit what once somebody has a 2397 01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,040 special exception somebody can come to 2398 01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:25,600 this body with by way of a site plan. 2399 01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:26,480 >> Okay. 2400 01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:28,880 you know they're you know the parking by 2401 01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:32,000 way of example may be you know in you 2402 01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,679 know they have to establish that they're 2403 01:39:33,679 --> 01:39:37,040 going to propose and build you know 2404 01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:37,760 something 2405 01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:40,320 >> a separate structure 2406 01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:40,960 >> right 2407 01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:43,040 >> and I guess all I'm getting at is um and 2408 01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:45,360 I'm not trying to add to the possible 2409 01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:47,600 wrecking ball here I was just curious as 2410 01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:50,159 to whether in that unique circumstance 2411 01:39:50,159 --> 01:39:53,040 of a separate detached structure and a 2412 01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:56,719 site plan being required Um, 2413 01:39:56,719 --> 01:39:59,840 is it is it wise to put any words in 2414 01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:02,800 this ADU text that says they still must 2415 01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:06,480 follow for detached ATUs that require a 2416 01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:10,719 site plan, etc., etc. Um, 2417 01:40:10,719 --> 01:40:12,880 or is it necessary just to emphasize 2418 01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:14,719 they still have to go through a site 2419 01:40:14,719 --> 01:40:15,600 plan process? 2420 01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:16,800 >> Well, and it's funny because you say 2421 01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,360 site plan, so I automatically think of a 2422 01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:21,440 commercial operation. I don't think of a 2423 01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:24,000 residential having a site plan. So, it' 2424 01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:30,239 almost be like an ADU location plan and and really my understanding is I 2425 01:40:30,239 --> 01:40:32,400 thought they had to be owner occupied 2426 01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:35,040 properties. It didn't have to be an 2427 01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:36,719 individual or a relative that lives in 2428 01:40:36,719 --> 01:40:38,400 that ADU. 2429 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:42,480 >> But but again, I'm concerned about 2430 01:40:42,480 --> 01:40:44,960 >> VBOS and those type of things. that's 2431 01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:46,800 going to I feel like we need to have 2432 01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:48,239 some kind of language in there to sort 2433 01:40:48,239 --> 01:40:50,880 of protect us from that 2434 01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:52,560 >> because we don't want those sorting to 2435 01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:53,199 pop up. 2436 01:40:53,199 --> 01:40:55,119 >> It also says owner occupied, but it 2437 01:40:55,119 --> 01:40:58,159 doesn't address uh the actual owner how 2438 01:40:58,159 --> 01:40:59,920 do we certify that? Is are they 2439 01:40:59,920 --> 01:41:02,159 certifying it every year? There's 2440 01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:04,080 nothing in there. Is the owner Can the 2441 01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:06,080 owner be an LLC? Can the owner be a 2442 01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:08,000 trust? Can the owner be a corporation? 2443 01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:09,760 >> Right. The owner should be living at one 2444 01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:11,360 of the two properties. It's either the 2445 01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:13,360 larger house or the smaller house. I'm 2446 01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:14,800 saying, but that's that's really what 2447 01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:16,639 owner occupied should be. Like your 2448 01:41:16,639 --> 01:41:18,239 mailing address, if you're the owner of 2449 01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:20,000 the property on your deed or on the 2450 01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:21,119 estat, 2451 01:41:21,119 --> 01:41:23,679 >> you should be occupying one of those 2452 01:41:23,679 --> 01:41:24,320 structures. 2453 01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:26,159 >> That's going to need to be clarified, 2454 01:41:26,159 --> 01:41:29,440 >> right? Which is just a hornets's nest, 2455 01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:31,360 you know, I can see coming, you know. 2456 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:32,639 And the funny thing, I was just sitting 2457 01:41:32,639 --> 01:41:36,560 here thinking is like, um, say I have an 2458 01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:38,480 existing structure, you know, is that 2459 01:41:38,480 --> 01:41:41,679 ADU on the back of my existing house 2460 01:41:41,679 --> 01:41:44,000 outside of the BRL but within the six 2461 01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:46,159 foot setback, is it is that going to be 2462 01:41:46,159 --> 01:41:48,400 allowed? You know, because it's an if 2463 01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:50,960 you call it an ADU attached to my house, 2464 01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:53,600 is does it have to meet all the BR BRL 2465 01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:57,600 requirements for that house? 2466 01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:00,639 So, so I'm not ready to render a 2467 01:42:00,639 --> 01:42:03,280 recommendation at this point. 2468 01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:05,920 Um, but I am intrigued by just the site 2469 01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:08,960 plan process and and um for that 2470 01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:11,679 particular flavor, a detached separate 2471 01:42:11,679 --> 01:42:15,440 dwelling in addition to the existing 2472 01:42:15,440 --> 01:42:17,920 single family dwelling. Um, so I need to 2473 01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:20,320 put some more thoughts on that and and 2474 01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,760 talk to you John as to whether any text 2475 01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:26,159 needs to be added to make sure that 2476 01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:28,800 whatever is required for that particular 2477 01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,920 kind of ADU um 2478 01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:33,920 the commission does or does not need to 2479 01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:36,480 bite on that apple. I I'm just 2480 01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:37,760 >> right because somebody could come in if 2481 01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:39,520 they have a BRL that's behind they have 2482 01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:41,119 adequate BRL behind their house, they 2483 01:42:41,119 --> 01:42:42,320 could just put an addition on their 2484 01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,480 house and call it an ADU. they'd be 2485 01:42:44,480 --> 01:42:46,000 connecting through their existing water 2486 01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:47,840 line and their existing sewer lines 2487 01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:49,280 because they're connected to the house. 2488 01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:52,159 But if you have a separate dwelling out 2489 01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:54,320 back now, that's that's the big 2490 01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:56,400 question. It's not part of the house, 2491 01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:58,960 >> you know, does it have its own water 2492 01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,040 connection? Is it requiring that own 2493 01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:02,639 connection? You know, are we going to 2494 01:43:02,639 --> 01:43:04,719 allow for the extension of services from 2495 01:43:04,719 --> 01:43:07,600 the existing residents? 2496 01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:08,800 >> Yeah. Chairman 2497 01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:11,040 >> again. Uh, sure. Would you allow me just 2498 01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:13,520 to Yeah, please tie a few things 2499 01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:17,679 together. The uh with a thought. So, um 2500 01:43:17,679 --> 01:43:20,480 you all your comments are as usual very 2501 01:43:20,480 --> 01:43:23,199 thorough and uh not much to add or 2502 01:43:23,199 --> 01:43:25,360 anything. Setbacks were a big concern of 2503 01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:27,520 mine reading through this. Um so I think 2504 01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:29,600 there's been some clarification and 2505 01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:31,520 probably some more thought that has to 2506 01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:35,119 happen. Um the the things I want to tie 2507 01:43:35,119 --> 01:43:36,719 together. So I think Commissioner Ali 2508 01:43:36,719 --> 01:43:39,840 brought up privacy, right? 2509 01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,400 um related to setbacks, but also in 2510 01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:44,960 relation to location and possible site 2511 01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:47,600 plan, location plan. It just got me 2512 01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:51,920 thinking realize in in Mount Airy, 2513 01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:55,040 not every backyard is level, 2514 01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:56,159 right? 2515 01:43:56,159 --> 01:43:58,000 >> Um and 2516 01:43:58,000 --> 01:43:59,679 >> just in my own situ, it got me thinking 2517 01:43:59,679 --> 01:44:01,360 of course about my backyard and 2518 01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:03,920 surrounding backyards. 2519 01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:06,639 If you wanted to put a an ADU that was 2520 01:44:06,639 --> 01:44:10,639 30% of my neighbor's backyard, right, on 2521 01:44:10,639 --> 01:44:12,639 my on, you know, on my side, you know, 2522 01:44:12,639 --> 01:44:14,480 near my 2523 01:44:14,480 --> 01:44:17,440 property line, it would most have to be 2524 01:44:17,440 --> 01:44:20,000 most likely have to be one end of it 2525 01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:21,360 would have to be on stilts, let's say, 2526 01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:23,360 right? It would be possible, but have to 2527 01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:25,360 be some engineering, right? That would 2528 01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:26,639 have to happen, right? 2529 01:44:26,639 --> 01:44:28,719 >> Which would it would put it high. It 2530 01:44:28,719 --> 01:44:32,159 would put it probably over my roof line. 2531 01:44:32,159 --> 01:44:34,159 So I'm just I'm posing an example here 2532 01:44:34,159 --> 01:44:36,880 where again we know we're not level here 2533 01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:40,960 in Mount Airy, right? In general. So um 2534 01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:44,400 again tying together privacy, location, 2535 01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:47,280 site plan. Um there could be some sticky 2536 01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:50,000 situations if we're not careful. 2537 01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:52,239 >> Now I I I think you've done a good 2538 01:44:52,239 --> 01:44:54,320 summary of a lot of points made as you 2539 01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:56,239 mentioned. You know, Commissioner Omali 2540 01:44:56,239 --> 01:44:57,760 mentioned privacy, and I think that 2541 01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:00,960 suits the example you you you posit 2542 01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:05,679 here. Um, yeah, I I I need some more 2543 01:45:05,679 --> 01:45:07,520 thought on this, but no, I understand 2544 01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:09,199 your circumstance. And again, I think 2545 01:45:09,199 --> 01:45:11,199 that also plays into why it's important 2546 01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:13,520 that we leave in the word may authorize 2547 01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:16,000 at the board of appeal. Just kind of 2548 01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,400 every situation has got to be unique. We 2549 01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:20,719 got three different flavors, different 2550 01:45:20,719 --> 01:45:22,880 terrain, different geography, uh 2551 01:45:22,880 --> 01:45:25,440 different sizes of the main dwellings, 2552 01:45:25,440 --> 01:45:29,119 etc. Um parking on and on and on points 2553 01:45:29,119 --> 01:45:32,320 that John brought up. So, so no, no, 2554 01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:34,960 thank you very much. That those are all 2555 01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:37,600 good points. So, um I copy I'll end my 2556 01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:39,119 comments and I'll just summarize by 2557 01:45:39,119 --> 01:45:40,960 saying I believe I have one commissioner 2558 01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:43,360 who has reached a disapproval opinion at 2559 01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:45,440 this stage. that commissioner can 2560 01:45:45,440 --> 01:45:47,040 certainly change that opinion because 2561 01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:48,719 we're going to continue to deliver it 2562 01:45:48,719 --> 01:45:52,159 this John on the agenda for October. I I 2563 01:45:52,159 --> 01:45:55,600 will ask that the uh commissioners all 2564 01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:59,119 of us you all of us uh try to reach uh 2565 01:45:59,119 --> 01:46:01,920 try to try to digest this discussion uh 2566 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:04,320 for more questions for October. But 2567 01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:07,600 let's see if we can't uh go ahead and u 2568 01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:11,440 reach a u commission decision on this 2569 01:46:11,440 --> 01:46:14,320 draft ordinance in October. 2570 01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:16,320 Um any last comments on this? Yeah, 2571 01:46:16,320 --> 01:46:16,639 Commissioner, can 2572 01:46:16,639 --> 01:46:19,920 >> I ask a question about that? So, um if 2573 01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:21,760 the ordinance like going back to the 2574 01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:23,520 previous instructions about reviewing 2575 01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:25,920 ordinances and not like you know going 2576 01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:27,520 back with red line and all that because 2577 01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:30,560 it's the council's to do. Um if they're 2578 01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:32,960 not I mean other than providing more 2579 01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,199 comments on this existing ordinance, 2580 01:46:35,199 --> 01:46:37,760 what what would what is the intent to be 2581 01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:39,360 able to make a recommendation? Yes or 2582 01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:45,040 no? Um, so, so just as so you've covered 2583 01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:46,400 a lot of things here, so let me put it 2584 01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:49,280 this way. So if you can next time tell 2585 01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:51,920 me you approve of it as it's written, 2586 01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:53,679 then that's pretty clear a message to 2587 01:46:53,679 --> 01:46:55,760 the council that you don't see any 2588 01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:57,440 issues with regard to what's been 2589 01:46:57,440 --> 01:47:01,600 drafted. If you wish to have um a 2590 01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:04,400 conditional approval with areas or 2591 01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,320 specifics that you would see 2592 01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,320 improvements to the proposed text, then 2593 01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:10,480 that would be something that would again 2594 01:47:10,480 --> 01:47:12,639 it would help Mr. McCarron and the 2595 01:47:12,639 --> 01:47:15,520 council kind of understand general areas 2596 01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:18,080 along with some specific entries. uh 2597 01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:20,239 specific entry would be like my earlier 2598 01:47:20,239 --> 01:47:22,159 discussion with him about the board of 2599 01:47:22,159 --> 01:47:24,000 appeals is may the right word on 2600 01:47:24,000 --> 01:47:27,119 authorizing because it's a pushed use 2601 01:47:27,119 --> 01:47:29,679 allowable use by the state. So may 2602 01:47:29,679 --> 01:47:32,000 authorize it seemed a little weird for 2603 01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:34,719 me. Uh but he's convinced me otherwise 2604 01:47:34,719 --> 01:47:38,560 that um again every application will be 2605 01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:40,239 different and they have the authority to 2606 01:47:40,239 --> 01:47:42,639 say it won't fly in this case or that 2607 01:47:42,639 --> 01:47:45,600 case etc. Uh so I hope I've answered. 2608 01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:51,520 Yeah. So that's kind of the value. Um I regard this recommendation as another 2609 01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:54,480 venue to inform the council and to 2610 01:47:54,480 --> 01:47:57,840 inform the author of things to consider. 2611 01:47:57,840 --> 01:47:59,840 I believe a point's already been raised. 2612 01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:03,199 We're going to change the setback um to 2613 01:48:03,199 --> 01:48:06,400 six feet in that one area of the 2614 01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:09,520 proposed text. Um 2615 01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:11,520 so that's kind of my expectation if 2616 01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:13,760 that's if that's acceptable. 2617 01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:15,679 Yeah, it does. I I was just, you know, 2618 01:48:15,679 --> 01:48:17,679 if we all agree that as written, it's 2619 01:48:17,679 --> 01:48:19,840 not acceptable, then it would really 2620 01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:21,360 just be kind of like we've done with 2621 01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:23,360 other ones, it would be either, you 2622 01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:27,600 know, no with comments or or I mean, 2623 01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:29,440 sorry, yes with comments or it's just a 2624 01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:31,040 no as written, but we're not going back 2625 01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:33,440 and providing specific changes to the 2626 01:48:33,440 --> 01:48:34,800 ordinance. So, 2627 01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:37,520 >> um but again, it's whatever you're 2628 01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:38,800 comfortable 2629 01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:41,360 >> submitting. Um and and my earlier 2630 01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:43,280 guidance about let's just try to avoid 2631 01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:45,760 doing redline you know word by word 2632 01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:49,360 grammar and all those such thing um you 2633 01:48:49,360 --> 01:48:52,239 know m Mr. McCarron and town staff are 2634 01:48:52,239 --> 01:48:53,760 going to catch those things I think 2635 01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:57,199 misspellings and so forth. Um so I think 2636 01:48:57,199 --> 01:48:59,520 just my perspective is the real value is 2637 01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:03,199 kind of big big strategic view 2638 01:49:03,199 --> 01:49:06,080 components of the proposed text. Does it 2639 01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:10,400 comply with the spirit of HB1466? 2640 01:49:10,400 --> 01:49:13,040 Um those sorts of feelings, 2641 01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:14,239 >> Mr. Chair, if Yeah. 2642 01:49:14,239 --> 01:49:16,320 >> So what I sent you earlier, that's 2643 01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:18,000 appropriate for what you're looking for 2644 01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:19,040 then, correct? 2645 01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:19,440 >> Yes. 2646 01:49:19,440 --> 01:49:22,000 >> Because I tried to he he asked us the 2647 01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:24,400 two questions. Do we think it meets it? 2648 01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:26,320 >> And then what do you think should be 2649 01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:28,000 changed? So then I just I went through 2650 01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:30,320 and put this is why I don't think it 2651 01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:32,320 this is why I don't and this is areas of 2652 01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:34,639 concern. this is where I think it could 2653 01:49:34,639 --> 01:49:36,159 be changed and then the ball's in their 2654 01:49:36,159 --> 01:49:37,440 court. So 2655 01:49:37,440 --> 01:49:39,600 >> yeah and and again you know if you say 2656 01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,000 it's unacceptable or it's disapproved 2657 01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:45,760 and and no further input that 2658 01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:47,920 and again it's just me and respectfully 2659 01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:50,000 said that doesn't help the author or the 2660 01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:52,239 council. You know if you say no it's not 2661 01:49:52,239 --> 01:49:55,520 good enough. I think a little a little 2662 01:49:55,520 --> 01:50:00,000 elaboration as to your rationale would help them and they may even go to 2663 01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,239 your point in that rationale and make a 2664 01:50:02,239 --> 01:50:04,960 change as a result of your disapproval. 2665 01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:07,760 Um but let's put this on the agenda, 2666 01:50:07,760 --> 01:50:12,239 John, for October and uh uh does any 2667 01:50:12,239 --> 01:50:15,040 commissioner need more information? Um 2668 01:50:15,040 --> 01:50:17,280 again, we've provided the Carol, the 2669 01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:20,560 state, and of course the proposed text. 2670 01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:22,320 Uh if you do have a need for any 2671 01:50:22,320 --> 01:50:24,320 additional information to reach that 2672 01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:30,229 next discussion um John 2673 01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:31,360 to everybody as well including 2674 01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:33,840 >> Sean. Gotcha. Okay. So I'm going to 2675 01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:35,520 close this agenda item because we're 2676 01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:37,360 going to continue it next time. And so 2677 01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:40,080 now we're into the quick topic about the 2678 01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:43,119 signage code. Um, we started this 2679 01:50:43,119 --> 01:50:45,520 science code two meetings ago as a 2680 01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:47,760 proposal to try to improve the wording 2681 01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:50,080 because again in the background or in 2682 01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:52,960 the past we've we've had some good 2683 01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:55,520 debate as to how to read the code on 2684 01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:58,639 everything from electronic displays 2685 01:50:58,639 --> 01:51:02,639 um etc etc. Um and so there was a 2686 01:51:02,639 --> 01:51:04,719 valiant effort to adjust the signage 2687 01:51:04,719 --> 01:51:08,080 code a few years back. Uh because of the 2688 01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:10,480 speed of technology and marketing and 2689 01:51:10,480 --> 01:51:12,080 advertising 2690 01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:15,360 um we've started now to kind of look at 2691 01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:18,239 that code individually given examples 2692 01:51:18,239 --> 01:51:20,159 that we've been confronted with for sign 2693 01:51:20,159 --> 01:51:22,480 applications and offer some thoughts as 2694 01:51:22,480 --> 01:51:24,880 to maybe how we can improve the signage 2695 01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:26,800 codes. Of course, the legislative body, 2696 01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:29,280 the council is the sole authority for 2697 01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,679 any amendments to the current code. And 2698 01:51:31,679 --> 01:51:33,760 so again, all I'm asking is if you want 2699 01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:35,600 to advise the council through our 2700 01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:37,199 liaison 2701 01:51:37,199 --> 01:51:40,080 um to consider an amendment to the 2702 01:51:40,080 --> 01:51:42,080 112-11, 2703 01:51:42,080 --> 01:51:44,000 uh then that's what we're all about. So 2704 01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:46,000 if you have any more input, uh 2705 01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:49,119 Commissioner Ali provided some input. Um 2706 01:51:49,119 --> 01:51:51,679 I have some input. Uh so just continue 2707 01:51:51,679 --> 01:51:54,400 to send that to John and John, you uh me 2708 01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:56,800 and Martina. Uh let's just get together, 2709 01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:58,719 not not tonight, but let's just get 2710 01:51:58,719 --> 01:52:00,800 together and decide uh how we're going 2711 01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:04,080 to roll all that together so we have 2712 01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:06,239 one-stop shopping on the commission's 2713 01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:10,320 feelings toward changes and uh we'll 2714 01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:12,239 create a master document that reflects 2715 01:52:12,239 --> 01:52:15,440 everyone's input if if you so choose. So 2716 01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:19,360 continue to offer that up to John and um 2717 01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:22,239 perhaps we'll have a final proposed set 2718 01:52:22,239 --> 01:52:28,159 of edits and changes. Uh next time we'll endeavor toward that reports and 2719 01:52:28,159 --> 01:52:30,159 other business. Uh Councilman Kelly, if 2720 01:52:30,159 --> 01:52:31,840 you could just give us a summary of the 2721 01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:33,840 last meeting, please. 2722 01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:37,109 >> Sure. 2723 01:52:37,119 --> 01:52:38,880 » Okay. So, uh the council met on 2724 01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:41,920 September 14th. Uh the council and the 2725 01:52:41,920 --> 01:52:43,360 public were given a presentation by 2726 01:52:43,360 --> 01:52:45,679 Mosley Architects with an updated police 2727 01:52:45,679 --> 01:52:47,920 station design. Uh we now have a base 2728 01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:51,520 design that is 5600 uh gross square feet 2729 01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:53,840 that fits into the $5 million uh budget 2730 01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:55,679 we've been working with. There also 2731 01:52:55,679 --> 01:52:58,000 alternative designs for future add-ons 2732 01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:00,320 uh if uh or when they're deemed 2733 01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:02,639 appropriate. Uh three of us move to 2734 01:53:02,639 --> 01:53:04,800 continue with the process uh using the 2735 01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:07,119 base design. So that's uh where we're 2736 01:53:07,119 --> 01:53:08,639 headed. 2737 01:53:08,639 --> 01:53:10,239 The recommendation for the purchase and 2738 01:53:10,239 --> 01:53:12,239 installation of a weather alert uh siren 2739 01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:15,360 system was approved in a 3 to1 vote. Uh 2740 01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:18,000 also ordinance 2026-22 2741 01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:20,480 related to mobile food units was 2742 01:53:20,480 --> 01:53:22,719 reintroduced uh with red lines and 2743 01:53:22,719 --> 01:53:24,960 deferred to the October meeting. 2744 01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:27,199 Ordinance 2026-24 2745 01:53:27,199 --> 01:53:29,679 related to the transfer of real property 2746 01:53:29,679 --> 01:53:31,199 uh was introduced in a hearing scheduled 2747 01:53:31,199 --> 01:53:33,920 for October 5th, the next meeting uh at 2748 01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:37,920 7:15 p.m. uh just before the meeting. 2749 01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:40,000 Ordinance 2026-25 2750 01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:42,400 related to al alternative dwelling units 2751 01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:44,719 was introduced and referred to you all. 2752 01:53:44,719 --> 01:53:48,480 Uh ordinance 2026-26, 2753 01:53:48,480 --> 01:53:50,000 an emergency budget amendment for a 2754 01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:51,760 decarbonization study in the amount of 2755 01:53:51,760 --> 01:53:53,920 $135,000 2756 01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:55,840 was approved uh and it's fully funded 2757 01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:57,920 through an energy efficiency and 2758 01:53:57,920 --> 01:54:01,040 conservation block grant. The council 2759 01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:04,000 will meet uh next uh this coming Monday, 2760 01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:08,159 October 5th. Any questions? Any 2761 01:54:08,159 --> 01:54:10,159 questions? 2762 01:54:10,159 --> 01:54:12,639 Uh John, do you have anything to add or 2763 01:54:12,639 --> 01:54:15,040 highlight in your uh staff report? 2764 01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:16,880 >> Uh no new business on this end right 2765 01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:17,520 now. 2766 01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:20,560 >> Okay. Um 2767 01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:23,599 did you want to make a comment? 2768 01:54:23,599 --> 01:54:26,639 >> I just had a quick question about um all 2769 01:54:26,639 --> 01:54:28,639 the projects that we have. Do you guys 2770 01:54:28,639 --> 01:54:32,159 have any kind of like metric or like um 2771 01:54:32,159 --> 01:54:34,400 something that says, "Okay, the project 2772 01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:36,639 at Chevy Court is in this phase or the 2773 01:54:36,639 --> 01:54:38,639 project on Buffalo Rose is in this 2774 01:54:38,639 --> 01:54:40,159 phase." Something that we could sort of 2775 01:54:40,159 --> 01:54:42,719 have as a commission to kind of keep us 2776 01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:44,480 updated about where everything is in the 2777 01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:45,920 process. Not that I want to make more 2778 01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:47,040 work for you, but 2779 01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:48,239 >> it sounds like more work. 2780 01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:49,360 >> It does, doesn't it? Um 2781 01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:50,639 >> I didn't know if you had anything like 2782 01:54:50,639 --> 01:54:53,040 that already just for your own 2783 01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:54,639 >> dashboard. Another dashboard. 2784 01:54:54,639 --> 01:54:56,560 >> Yeah. Or Yeah. or just even something 2785 01:54:56,560 --> 01:54:58,400 that we could get every month if not 2786 01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:00,719 even I mean it's sometimes there I mean 2787 01:55:00,719 --> 01:55:02,080 it seems like there's a lot coming up 2788 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:03,840 and sometimes we have kind of have to 2789 01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:05,119 have a lot of refreshers about where 2790 01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:06,800 everything is 2791 01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:09,520 >> I guess I'm wondering what do you want to see like you know how 2792 01:55:09,520 --> 01:55:11,199 many building permits have been issued 2793 01:55:11,199 --> 01:55:12,320 which is part of the zoning 2794 01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:13,040 administrator report 2795 01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:14,719 >> yeah no I don't think we need that just 2796 01:55:14,719 --> 01:55:15,040 kind of 2797 01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:15,920 >> because that's part of the zoning 2798 01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:17,599 administrator report actually shows how 2799 01:55:17,599 --> 01:55:19,040 many build building permits have been 2800 01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:22,239 issued um but again I mean the dashboard 2801 01:55:22,239 --> 01:55:24,560 is there they have one building permit 2802 01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:26,159 on Dennis 2803 01:55:26,159 --> 01:55:29,440 subdivision. Buffalo Ridge hasn't gone 2804 01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:31,360 anywhere because you just approved it, 2805 01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:31,679 >> right? 2806 01:55:31,679 --> 01:55:37,280 >> We're waiting for improvement plans and miler. So, I mean, Green Tree um 2807 01:55:37,280 --> 01:55:39,360 myars are being signed and being routed 2808 01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:41,840 up to Carol County for an update, but 2809 01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:45,360 you know, no dashboard uh for those 2810 01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:47,280 particular items. 2811 01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:49,119 >> Okay. 2812 01:55:49,119 --> 01:55:51,280 >> I can give you an update or something or 2813 01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:53,679 >> it's not typically something we would 2814 01:55:53,679 --> 01:55:56,400 publicize. Um but if you want some kind 2815 01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:57,520 of a 2816 01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:00,000 >> update matrix of what's happening on 2817 01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:02,480 what projects you've approved I mean 2818 01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:04,960 that's we can do that but 2819 01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:08,480 >> yeah I I think um 2820 01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:10,159 so let me work with you about kind of 2821 01:56:10,159 --> 01:56:12,320 what I'm envisioning. I like the word 2822 01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:14,320 dashboard. I'm familiar with dashboard 2823 01:56:14,320 --> 01:56:17,040 on you know kind of one-stop shopping on 2824 01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:20,400 projects. Um, so let me see if we can 2825 01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:22,159 put some contours to kind of what we're 2826 01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:25,040 talking about here and how it would 2827 01:56:25,040 --> 01:56:28,880 appear on the town website for Joe Bag 2828 01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:30,960 of Donuts to go in and say, "Oh, what's 2829 01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:32,880 going on there with Chevrolet Court?" 2830 01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:35,280 And they would get, I don't know, four 2831 01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:37,520 or five items of information, a site 2832 01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:40,080 plan, stuff like that. They would get a 2833 01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:42,719 site plan, a status, how many permits, 2834 01:56:42,719 --> 01:56:43,520 not 2835 01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:46,480 >> not a really rich understanding of it. 2836 01:56:46,480 --> 01:56:48,800 Certainly not like into the details, but 2837 01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:51,040 maybe just some fundamental stuff like 2838 01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:52,880 the last approved site plan. 2839 01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:54,560 >> Well, I think it's uh I think that's 2840 01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:56,400 great idea along with council member de 2841 01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:59,040 motor's suggestion. Again, our website 2842 01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:02,320 is just about to go under review and 2843 01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:04,159 modifications. So, this would be the 2844 01:57:04,159 --> 01:57:05,360 time to set that in motion, 2845 01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:06,480 >> throw some ideas. Yeah. 2846 01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:08,000 >> And possibly have something that's 2847 01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:09,760 updated monthly. 2848 01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:10,080 >> Yeah. 2849 01:57:10,080 --> 01:57:12,639 >> I don't see it up being updated daily. 2850 01:57:12,639 --> 01:57:15,360 >> So, let's let's knock that around. Um, 2851 01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:16,639 and we'll throw it out to the other 2852 01:57:16,639 --> 01:57:18,159 commissioners just to kind of say, you 2853 01:57:18,159 --> 01:57:19,360 know, here's kind of what we're thinking 2854 01:57:19,360 --> 01:57:21,440 would be valuable to the citizen, you 2855 01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:22,239 know, to kind of 2856 01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:23,599 >> you could call it the Mount Air 2857 01:57:23,599 --> 01:57:26,800 development dashboard. 2858 01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:28,000 >> Thanks, Brian. 2859 01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:30,639 >> Yeah. What's going on, 2860 01:57:30,639 --> 01:57:35,430 >> Brian? Put that together. 2861 01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:40,719 » Okay. Um so just to recap um and to go 2862 01:57:40,719 --> 01:57:43,679 back to the very beginning um if you can 2863 01:57:43,679 --> 01:57:45,920 add to the agenda a quick discussion 2864 01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:48,880 John about possibly and again this isn't 2865 01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:52,080 a forceful ask it's just if you can back 2866 01:57:52,080 --> 01:57:54,880 to discussion as to how the commission 2867 01:57:54,880 --> 01:57:58,480 may navigate through the site plan 2868 01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:00,960 regarding the police station. uh that 2869 01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:06,800 topic again. Um and and if if I may 2870 01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:10,560 um Council Member Kelly, when when you 2871 01:58:10,560 --> 01:58:17,199 give your October report, and again, I'm kind of pausing here because I feel 2872 01:58:17,199 --> 01:58:19,040 like I'm violating my own rule, which is 2873 01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:20,800 not to tell somebody how to suck eggs, 2874 01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:23,920 and that is if you could consider 2875 01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:25,599 mentioning the interest of the 2876 01:58:25,599 --> 01:58:28,239 commission in that regard. 2877 01:58:28,239 --> 01:58:30,719 um and and couch it please as 2878 01:58:30,719 --> 01:58:32,239 respectfully 2879 01:58:32,239 --> 01:58:35,199 wanting to help because of our 2880 01:58:35,199 --> 01:58:37,520 experience with other developments and 2881 01:58:37,520 --> 01:58:40,000 buildings and and developers and pattern 2882 01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:43,199 books and etc. Uh is that a fair 2883 01:58:43,199 --> 01:58:44,560 statement commissioners? I don't want to 2884 01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:46,320 volunteer you into something that you 2885 01:58:46,320 --> 01:58:49,840 feel like is out of bounds. Um okay. So 2886 01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:53,280 if if that's an ask for 2887 01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:56,960 um these two August individuals here, 2888 01:58:56,960 --> 01:59:00,800 then um if if it can be explored, then 2889 01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:02,400 I'd appreciate it. Is that fair? 2890 01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:04,159 >> Yeah. And again, as we've I've said all 2891 01:59:04,159 --> 01:59:06,480 along, I'm I'm in your corner to have 2892 01:59:06,480 --> 01:59:07,599 this presented to the planning 2893 01:59:07,599 --> 01:59:08,719 commission for 2894 01:59:08,719 --> 01:59:10,000 >> for suggestions. 2895 01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:12,239 >> Okay. And and of course all that said in 2896 01:59:12,239 --> 01:59:14,800 deference to what legal boundaries we we 2897 01:59:14,800 --> 01:59:18,480 may or may not may not have. Um any 2898 01:59:18,480 --> 01:59:20,480 alibis from the commissioners hearing? 2899 01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:22,480 None. I am adjourning this meeting. The 2900 01:59:22,480 --> 01:59:23,280 next 2901 01:59:23,280 --> 01:59:25,119 >> Oh, one one real one real quick 2902 01:59:25,119 --> 01:59:27,199 question. 2903 01:59:27,199 --> 01:59:28,880 >> Going back to the signs. I know we're 2904 01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:33,119 not making the actual recommendations to the council, but I think at our last 2905 01:59:33,119 --> 01:59:38,880 meeting, um, council member Mund made a comment about we had to be careful 2906 01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:41,119 because there were some concerns about 2907 01:59:41,119 --> 01:59:43,840 freedom of speech. Can I ask Tom what we 2908 01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:47,280 need to keep in mind if anything when 2909 01:59:47,280 --> 01:59:49,599 we're looking at the sign 2910 01:59:49,599 --> 01:59:54,000 in information or sign things? Um I 2911 01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:55,840 think the reference was made to a 2912 01:59:55,840 --> 01:59:59,040 Supreme Court case in that regard 2913 01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:03,199 and uh I think we fixed that. Uh what it 2914 02:00:03,199 --> 02:00:06,239 had to do from memory with uh can you 2915 02:00:06,239 --> 02:00:08,159 regulate 2916 02:00:08,159 --> 02:00:10,880 um in that case I think it was a 2917 02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:16,400 church's sign versus other commercial 2918 02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:19,040 uh signage within the same zoning 2919 02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:21,440 district. and the Supreme Court held 2920 02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:23,920 that that is a contentbased uh 2921 02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:26,000 restriction on speech and therefore was 2922 02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:27,920 unconstitutional. However, the court 2923 02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:32,239 went on to say that um 2924 02:00:32,239 --> 02:00:34,320 certainly you may do it by zoning 2925 02:00:34,320 --> 02:00:36,560 districts. So you may say okay in this 2926 02:00:36,560 --> 02:00:39,119 zoning district this size of a sign by 2927 02:00:39,119 --> 02:00:42,639 way of example is appropriate but what 2928 02:00:42,639 --> 02:00:45,840 you can't say this s this size for 2929 02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:48,560 commercial this size for a church this 2930 02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:51,520 size for something else I believe we 2931 02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:55,360 addressed that in the last set of um 2932 02:00:55,360 --> 02:00:57,520 revisions and I think the way the signs 2933 02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:00,239 ordinance now is structured is by zoning 2934 02:01:00,239 --> 02:01:02,880 district which supreme court at least 2935 02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:05,920 one of the probably seven opinions in 2936 02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:08,320 that case as they're prone to issue many 2937 02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:11,199 opinions in every case um seem to 2938 02:01:11,199 --> 02:01:13,199 suggest was appropriate that that 2939 02:01:13,199 --> 02:01:15,920 restriction could be done. So, I I 2940 02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:17,760 that's a long answer to say. I think the 2941 02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:19,679 signs ordinance as it's currently 2942 02:01:19,679 --> 02:01:21,360 organized 2943 02:01:21,360 --> 02:01:23,119 um 2944 02:01:23,119 --> 02:01:26,870 addresses that. 2945 02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:29,840 » Um I'm since the reference was made 2946 02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:31,599 toward council member Mander, do you 2947 02:01:31,599 --> 02:01:34,320 wish to add to that of the privacy 2948 02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:37,679 caution? Um, and and maybe one minute, 2949 02:01:37,679 --> 02:01:40,870 Carl, 2950 02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:43,360 or 2951 02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:45,360 >> I'm fine with that. I mean, as long as 2952 02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:48,800 the code doesn't change, that would, 2953 02:01:48,800 --> 02:01:50,400 you know, allow us to be challenged 2954 02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:52,960 again. But if Tom says in most district, 2955 02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:57,520 that's handled fine. Just try and use 2956 02:01:57,520 --> 02:02:00,719 common sense while looking at it and see 2957 02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:03,280 if it does, you know, do a simple test 2958 02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:06,239 in your mind. Does this restrict speech 2959 02:02:06,239 --> 02:02:09,520 or size or does it violate anything? 2960 02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:10,880 That would be common. 2961 02:02:10,880 --> 02:02:11,360 >> Yeah. 2962 02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:13,199 >> So, I'm good. I'm good with it. 2963 02:02:13,199 --> 02:02:16,639 >> Gotcha. And again, um 2964 02:02:16,639 --> 02:02:19,040 my attitude is 2965 02:02:19,040 --> 02:02:22,400 um go into looking at changes to the 2966 02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:25,920 signage code unconstrained by that 2967 02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:30,320 concern. allow the town attorney to move 2968 02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:35,840 that suggested text or point into the 2969 02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:38,400 legal parameters to abide by the law. Do 2970 02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:40,320 you follow what I'm saying? I mean, if 2971 02:02:40,320 --> 02:02:46,400 you think a good idea, don't bridle your own thoughts with the 2972 02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:49,119 possibility that it could create a 2973 02:02:49,119 --> 02:02:51,440 freedom of speech issue. Just put it out 2974 02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:54,719 there and then the the good council will 2975 02:02:54,719 --> 02:02:58,639 say, "Oh, no. that would run against um 2976 02:02:58,639 --> 02:03:01,360 you know Similsburgger versus McCarron 2977 02:03:01,360 --> 02:03:04,800 and we can't we can't do that. Is that 2978 02:03:04,800 --> 02:03:05,599 fair? 2979 02:03:05,599 --> 02:03:11,750 >> Yeah. And I kind of call that 2980 02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:13,760 » and so just kind of unconstrained is 2981 02:03:13,760 --> 02:03:15,040 kind of how I'm encouraging you know 2982 02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:16,400 throw your thoughts out there if you 2983 02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:18,480 think because of your experience on this 2984 02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:21,840 day as dealing with code and a proposed 2985 02:03:21,840 --> 02:03:25,280 application for some sign. Um, if you 2986 02:03:25,280 --> 02:03:27,679 think it's a good idea, put it down and 2987 02:03:27,679 --> 02:03:30,159 just offer it and then we'll we'll 2988 02:03:30,159 --> 02:03:32,719 bounce it around. Uh, any other alibis 2989 02:03:32,719 --> 02:03:34,080 from the commissioners. It's been a 2990 02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,719 great meeting. Um, and so the next 2991 02:03:36,719 --> 02:03:40,320 meeting will be 7 p.m. Town Hall October 2992 02:03:40,320 --> 02:03:42,080 26 2993 02:03:42,080 --> 02:03:45,760 and I see we are at 9:04. I adjourn this 2994 02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:49,400 meeting. Thank you.