1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:11,160 All right, we will call the work session to order. Call the roll, please. 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,520 » Brown. >> Here. 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:13,920 » Calvin. >> Here. 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,440 » Cornelius. >> Here. 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,880 » Pratt. >> Here. 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,160 » McGehee Ready. >> Here. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,080 » Wick. >> Here. 8 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,920 » Yore. >> Okay. 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:28,680 This is the portion of the work session that we invite the public to address the 10 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:32,200 commission. If you would like to do so, we ask that you come to the microphone, 11 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:36,320 give us your full name, residential address, and abide by our 3-minute rule. 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:44,480 Okay, seeing none, we will move on to our discussion of our rental ordinance 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:48,200 amendments, Mr. Shipman. >> Well, I don't remember the last time we 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:52,560 talked about it, but I know your request is simply just from the city attorney, 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:56,120 which she did, and I sent that to you by email a couple weeks ago and once I 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:59,200 got it, a couple hard copies of the first 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:03,120 » I got I got you. I got I got hard copies if anybody would like 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,120 » Awesome. 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,120 » Just this once. >> We need the latest one. 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:20,080 » I just read pages of it yesterday, and like I can't remember good enough. 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,640 » Yeah. >> The opportunities present itself. 22 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:28,800 » I tried reading it digitally and my eyes were just 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,480 No, no idea what I just read. Got to do it on paper. 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,360 » So, I don't know if you >> I would say 25 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,520 » requested anything additional um to what we've already changed to this 26 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:48,800 point. >> Yeah. Um 27 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:52,680 I actually I had uh a couple things um I had one question. 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,880 The The first one was about the uh complaint review. I think it's on page 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,160 seven. Um 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:07,800 Yes. Okay, and then um section E. 31 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:11,120 So the 32 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:14,840 uh we got rid of the um misdemeanor part, right? If someone 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,959 submits um 34 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:22,360 uh a number of claims that turn out to be false, 35 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,360 uh it's no longer a misdemeanor. Um 36 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,120 does that These claims, do they go before the administrative hearings 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:33,560 bureau and can they assess a fine on someone who continues to 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:39,040 um file false complaints on uh a landlord? 39 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,040 Or the other way around? 40 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:46,080 » So, the previous language regarding harassment, um in my time with the city, 41 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,320 we've never once utilized that section. >> Okay. 42 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,920 » Um it would it would be a criminal misdemeanor handled through district 43 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:55,080 court. But again, we've never once used that 44 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:58,600 section or enforced it. Um that's why we changed that to this complaint review 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,680 process instead. Um 46 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,720 we thought that the harassment language kind of deterred the tenants from making 47 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,920 complaints, which we encourage them to do so when there are issues. So, that's 48 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:12,280 why we we did the switch to the complaint review 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:18,040 um wording instead. >> Thank you. No, that's really great. 50 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:23,120 Um the other stuff I had was outside of the changes here, so I'll wait for 51 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,120 people to talk about the changes here. 52 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:32,320 » Right. Did you have anything else? >> my I was just going to say the one 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,120 area that we left uh you left in my hands is 54 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,560 just cuz we thought it needed a little bit more 55 00:03:36,959 --> 00:03:42,680 thought and for me, I couldn't think quick enough at the meeting was section 56 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,840 3A on page three. 57 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,959 Um >> It's just semantics, right? 58 00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:51,959 » Yeah. 59 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,680 » Oh, the within 30 days thing? >> Yeah. 60 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,680 » Yeah. 61 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,800 » I thought it made sense. The way it is now. 62 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,440 » So, it looks this way. >> With that this part? 63 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,920 » Yeah. >> With the red. 64 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:17,440 » Oh, with the red. Yeah, that's new since our last meeting. 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,440 » Yeah. No, I think it makes total sense. 66 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:29,120 That on the shelf also be responsible for providing an inspection in 30 days. 67 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,280 » The other ordinances that The other ordinances I looked at 68 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:38,280 were had a much shorter timeline, but I think 30 days is still very reasonable. 69 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:44,200 » More like 2 weeks or something? >> I saw 10 days. It was probably 10 70 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,640 business days though, so yeah, 2 weeks. >> Okay. 71 00:04:54,080 --> 00:05:00,680 You all good with this? >> I'm good. 72 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,120 » Anybody else have any Are we good? 73 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,600 » Commissioner Brown is going to think it's something. 74 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,280 » Not necessarily, Bob. Cuz I you know, we've gone over this. 75 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,800 » We have a few times. >> Yeah. 76 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,080 » Okay. >> Yeah, yeah, please. 77 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:19,040 » So, I finally found some time and thankfully it was yesterday, so it's 78 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,720 fresh on my mind about what other communities have done 79 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,800 in terms of their rental ordinances and I found a couple things. The first was 80 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,560 that our rental ordinances are actually 81 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:34,360 pretty pretty good compared like a lot of cities that have redone theirs are 82 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:37,320 getting to the point where ours work in some regards. 83 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,840 But, I also saw a few things that other communities did that I 84 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:44,720 thought it would be good to discuss. Not necessarily that we should pick all of 85 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,960 these things up, but it would be be to get more information 86 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:54,560 on them or to know if these were uh issues. Um so, the first one was um 87 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:58,920 in tenants receiving information on their rights. I emailed this around to 88 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:04,080 everyone, um but I found that uh the city of Ann Arbor and the city of 89 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:08,080 What was it? East Lansing? Sorry, Ypsilanti. Both have an ordinance that 90 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:13,960 requires um the landlord at the time of the rental 91 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:17,360 agreement to give the tenant a copy of a booklet with their rights and 92 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:21,919 information from the city about how to file a complaint um 93 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:26,160 and and other information like that. Um the state law and the 94 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:29,640 city ordinances, but you know, in a way that's much easier to read than than 95 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:34,080 this. So, I could send around that. Um 96 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:38,000 really the way the ordinance is written, it just says that the city shall provide 97 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,320 the city clerk with booklets explaining the rights of tenants under the city and 98 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,640 state law. The clerk should make those booklets available to landlords and 99 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:48,720 their agents. They can pick those up at the clerk's office, and then they must 100 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,440 give those to the tenant at the the time that they start a new lease, not just uh 101 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:56,320 not at any point. Only the first time. So, I can send over 102 00:06:54,840 --> 00:07:02,200 both of these. The language is slightly different on uh on those, but I thought 103 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:06,440 that would be really helpful um just for people to know what they're 104 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,960 getting into and what their rights are. Um 105 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:12,560 » On that, may I did see in the email Brian's plan of at least putting a link 106 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:16,200 on the website of the landlord-tenant stuff at the 107 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,600 state level. So, that's at least one step in that direction already. But 108 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:24,520 yeah, I would I would definitely be curious to see kind of what Ipsi and uh 109 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:29,280 Lansing and Ann Arbor did, kind of how that 110 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:33,520 how that works out in the details. >> Yeah. Yeah, the the websites um I found 111 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,280 that they had websites that did have all that information. It was extremely easy 112 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:41,000 to navigate and get links to all that stuff, too. Um so, maybe it doesn't need 113 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:45,800 to be be as well, but, you know, 114 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,800 um 115 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:53,320 That That was a good point on that. The other thing, um 116 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:57,080 what I found was that some cities uh So, the state doesn't have a cap 117 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:01,240 uh and most cities don't have a cap on application or pre-tenancy fees. So, I'm 118 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:06,160 not necessarily saying that we should, either, but I was was wondering I wonder 119 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:11,200 what the average um uh application fee is in the city. 120 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:16,600 Um for a lot of people who are applying for a couple of rentals, and those fees 121 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:20,600 kind of add up. And so, if it's somewhere between like 50 and 150 122 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:24,240 dollars, which is what I remember when I got my apartment off of Grosbeck, 123 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:28,440 um if you have to apply for a bunch of 124 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:33,120 those, that really adds up quick. So, um and so, the city of Ann Arbor came up 125 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:37,719 with an ordinance that uh essentially said landlords need to come up with 126 00:08:35,479 --> 00:08:41,919 really how much it costs to figure out, you know, do a background check, do a 127 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:45,960 credit check, all those things. Um and if their application fee is above that, 128 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:51,200 uh if they don't choose you for that rental, they need to give you the money 129 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:54,160 back that they didn't use um to do that. Um I don't know if that's a good fit for 130 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:58,280 us, but I thought it was an interesting concept. 131 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:04,160 I would be curious to see from renters in our community if they're applying to 132 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:08,320 multiple um places at once, um and if that's become a burden for them. I think 133 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:13,880 in Ann Arbor, because it's a college town, people in the demand is so high, 134 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:17,480 people are applying to a lot. And so, I I understand why they did it. 135 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:21,680 But I thought that was a question I just didn't have an answer to. And those 136 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:26,120 pre-tenancy fees were like, you know, holding fees, option fees, 137 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,680 um not the security deposit, but just, you 138 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,640 know, they come up with fees for everything. So, um once again, I'll send 139 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,520 this around, but I found that to be really interesting. 140 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:41,520 Um and then so, I also found a lot of 141 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:45,360 information from Ann Arbor about discrimination. 142 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:49,240 They have a very, very comprehensive discrimination 143 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:54,960 or anti-discrimination ordinance that just governs how they run 144 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:59,840 their city, but particularly toward housing, their discrimination ordinance 145 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,920 says that no person shall discriminate in leasing, selling, or otherwise making 146 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,760 available any housing facilities. Um now, of 147 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,920 course, there was the state law on discrimination, which has been expanded 148 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:16,040 a little bit, but they also said that no one should be denied housing based on 149 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:21,280 actual or perceived age, arrest record, color, disability, educational level, 150 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:26,120 ethnicity, familial status, family responsibilities, gender expression, 151 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:32,520 gender identity, genetic information, height, HIV status, marital status, 152 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:37,440 national origin, political beliefs, um source of income such as like vouchers, 153 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:43,120 veteran status, being a victim of domestic abuse, stalking, or weight. 154 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:46,600 Um and so, I don't know because um I don't know how many complaints 155 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:49,080 we've had on this or if we've had any at all, 156 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,760 um if this is something that would 157 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,720 make a difference here, but it is something that um I thought was 158 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,880 interesting and it went a little bit further than the state law. 159 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Um So, it was interesting. 160 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,120 » Spencer, Spencer, which municipality did that come from? 161 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,839 » This was Ann Arbor. >> Okay. That's what I thought you said. 162 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:13,400 » So, yeah. Um 163 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:17,839 Yeah, those were and then also, if you really want to do some research, um 164 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,480 I was reading about right to renew ordinances. Once again, I don't know if 165 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:25,440 they're that's a great fit for us, but it was just interesting to to see what 166 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:29,120 other communities have put together to create more stability for people who 167 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,520 want to remain in their community as renters. 168 00:11:29,839 --> 00:11:36,400 » All right. >> So, I'll email this to everyone so can 169 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:42,080 get out and look at it, but thanks. >> Can we Have you ever had any complaints 170 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:45,240 like that on in any of that? >> No, we don't really get complaints 171 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:49,920 regarding fair housing issues. It's generally just the condition of the of 172 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:49,920 the rental unit itself. 173 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:56,800 » How common are complaints regarding the condition of 174 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:01,040 the rental? >> Um I think they're not as common as what 175 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:04,400 you probably believe and maybe that's partly because the tenants don't know 176 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:08,120 that the program exists that we have a rental inspection program, but 177 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:12,120 I would say maybe one a week, which really isn't that many 178 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,640 in the grander scheme of things, but they it does happen. 179 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:19,000 » Yeah, it's not it's not nothing, but it's not like a flood of them either. 180 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,880 » Correct. And and we do find ourselves when there is a tenant complaint, it's 181 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:27,000 often stemming because the tenant's being evicted for for whatever reason. 182 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:30,440 Um and so there there's tenant versus landlord and we're trying to they try to 183 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:34,000 get us in the middle sometimes, so we do our best to just follow our ordinance 184 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,080 and the guidelines and stay out of that that type of situation. 185 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:47,360 » All right. Anything else? Any Anything further on this one? 186 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:52,240 » I do. I see a little note I had made. Just one little note, Rob. 187 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:56,440 Under um um let's see what section this this is 188 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:00,000 eight. Uh 189 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:07,000 Under section eight inspections on page seven under E, complaint review. 190 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:13,240 Um I kind of took 191 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:17,520 issue with one particular example 192 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:21,400 uh where it reads that last sentence under the complaint review, "Nothing in 193 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:25,960 this article shall require the city to conduct an inspection based solely upon 194 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:31,400 a complaint that lacks sufficient information or appears to be frivolous, 195 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:35,400 repetitive, or made in bad faith. I thought repetitive really is not a 196 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:39,800 negative. It just means it's a reoccurring problem sometimes and it 197 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:44,360 hasn't been resolved. Of course, if it's frivolous, that's that goes without 198 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:48,680 saying or made in bad faith, but I wanted to know if we would consider 199 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:52,640 striking repetitive because sometimes you do have to keep asking for the same 200 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:56,560 things. >> Yeah. Yeah, I would be fine with 201 00:13:54,600 --> 00:14:01,480 » I I mean I I agree with you in in some nature, but 202 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:06,480 I've also had a person who who has 203 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:11,320 given me the same complaint in a repetitive nature because they 204 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,040 don't like the answer. >> Looking for another answer. Yeah, that's 205 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:18,600 kind of a >> So, um that would be my It's almost to 206 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:22,080 the point of harassment. You know, um like 207 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:27,000 » Yeah, when you can't accept that you hit a brick brick wall, but I don't want 208 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:31,560 people to think that once you raise an issue once in some of these housing 209 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,880 situations that you can't raise it again. 210 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,720 » Sure. Sure. Yeah. >> And I think even if you take out I think 211 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,880 if you take out the word repetitive, if it is 212 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:46,000 still having frivolous or made in bad faith or lacks sufficient information, I 213 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,000 think 214 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:54,240 those kinds of issues could still be covered in that way normally cuz if it's 215 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:57,200 repetitive but not frivolous and not in bad faith, 216 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:03,400 They almost beat It's hard to almost imagine that situation. 217 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:07,040 » I If I really want to go forward with something, but then the person would 218 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:12,280 know. >> But I think what you're speaking to, 219 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:16,240 Mayor Laura, falls under bad faith. Right. 220 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:20,280 So, that's really covered there cuz you said it border borders on harassment. 221 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,880 » Yeah. I mean Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully it would be bad 222 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,160 faith, I suppose. >> Yeah. 223 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,520 Bad faith is a um broad 224 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,880 » Pretty broad. >> subject. Yeah, subjective, too. So, I 225 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:38,040 can view it as bad faith if you keep asking me the same question and I've 226 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,240 responded. So, >> Okay. 227 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,400 » I think it's pretty clear. >> All right. 228 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:45,000 » It is. >> Yeah. Okay. 229 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:49,200 I've just had a repetitive experience. 230 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:53,600 So. >> This is My one thought on on uh 231 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Commissioner Kelle's uh suggestions, 232 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:02,800 um I like, you know, there's no downside to putting in a non-discriminatory for 233 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:07,480 whatever reasons the commission decides. So, I can see that one. The one where 234 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:12,760 we're putting in an ordinance uh burden on the municipality to create 235 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:17,120 a document explaining rights, I almost feel like that gets the landlord off the 236 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:20,680 hook if they uh say we haven't kept up with what 237 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:24,640 we're supposed to do. So, how the heck with it, they're not giving the rights. 238 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:29,600 I I do like the idea of putting it on the website cuz it is it's more fluid 239 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:33,040 and changes easier than uh putting in a written document. But, whatever you get, 240 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:37,760 you know, whatever everyone thinks. This is my initial thoughts. 241 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:42,040 » The cities that I found, um they all worked with um 242 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:46,920 either I think one of them worked with Eastern Michigan University, the other 243 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:54,160 one worked with a law firm, and they created a document that could be updated 244 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:57,760 that um quite a bit. They also have uh like a renter's commission that looks at 245 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:02,400 that. So, they have a reason to keep updating it. Um 246 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:07,120 but, that is a a good point that how we do it could take a little bit of 247 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:10,920 pressure off of the staff. >> But, I think also 248 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:16,400 I remember somewhere in my background there are grants to to help get those 249 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:22,199 tenant landlord booklets made and university help, like you said, but also 250 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:26,920 to the point of having a printed one, I think the assumption is always that 251 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:31,640 everyone can navigate a website, and a lot of 252 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:36,760 seniors and people with disabilities don't go there. And if they have a paper 253 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:42,560 booklet in hand, even if it becomes obsolete quicker to your point, Rob, I 254 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:46,920 think it's just helpful to have both. >> Yeah, I mean, my only concern is how do 255 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:51,280 you enforce? Because if we put it as an ordinance 256 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,400 that a landlord must give that, how do you enforce that? 257 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,920 » Mhm. >> Right. 258 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,760 » Is it a mandate or a suggestion? >> Oh, no, it's a mandate. 259 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,720 » Oh, you want us to do a mandate? Okay. >> I mean, everything 260 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,120 I have to look at the rest of the the ordinance. 261 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,360 » Yeah. >> From what I remember, from what I saw, 262 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:12,440 it all pointed to any violation in that section was a misdemeanor, according to 263 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,360 the So. 264 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:20,480 It was all tied to that. But I don't I don't see a problem with 265 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:24,560 this kind of information being available digitally, and them having just a paper 266 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:28,320 copy of you know, here's how to get access this 267 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:33,240 information, and some paper copies being available at city hall. 268 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,840 » And the bottom line is we also have like I'm sorry, do some 269 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:41,000 like we could do some press about once we get it that all on the website, and 270 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:45,400 doing it some article in the Clementines, and doing some social media 271 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:49,160 about it to, you know, just help promote it so that and point people in that 272 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,800 direction, so it's not just >> There. 273 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:55,320 » on the website, and if you're lucky you might find it, you know. 274 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:59,440 The Clementines makes sense. >> Cuz all seniors usually do read the 275 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:03,960 » Definitely does, yeah. >> But um, you know, if we 276 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,560 there's good landlords and there's bad landlords, and the good landlords might 277 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:12,160 try to keep up with it and make make sure it gets out there. The bad 278 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:16,080 landlord, you hope to God they register. I mean 279 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:19,600 there's several out there that >> Sure. 280 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,800 » I know I tore down the houses that they weren't registered as 281 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,640 » Right. >> rentals. 282 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,880 » Sure. >> And the 283 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:30,800 conditions were horrible. So, it's it's really hard to keep track 284 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,760 of all this stuff and hold landlords accountable. 285 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,480 Mhm. I forgot this. >> I believe it was the previous 286 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,320 Clementines with the one that just came out. We do we did have an article about 287 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:44,840 the rental registration inspection program. So, um but I think we can take 288 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:48,560 a look at the website to see, you know, is the information where it is now kind 289 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:53,200 of buried and can we make it more easily accessible um from somebody going on our 290 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:57,360 website and maybe even include some more information about, you know, landlord 291 00:19:55,120 --> 00:20:02,480 tenant rights and things of that nature. >> Yeah. Actually, um I forgot to mention 292 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:06,680 that. It probably just didn't make its way on here. They also 293 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:11,120 um they the way they got the city to engage in 294 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:16,600 sending it out and winding the cities was they added that the city would send 295 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:19,800 a voter registration once they saw that, you know, it came through that there was 296 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:23,040 a new renter. So, there was a reason for the city to interact with them and send 297 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,920 them that information. So, that's how they solved that. So, once again, 298 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,520 not that we should do that. Um although it would be cool. But, 299 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,240 um you know, they they they found a way to 300 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:37,840 make sure that information got to them. Um 301 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:42,480 and then just one observation I found when I said that our our ordinance was 302 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:46,520 ahead of a lot of others. For instance, us requiring that there's a responsible 303 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:52,160 local agent if you have I think it was if you have over five properties. 304 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:55,560 Uh I didn't see that anywhere else. And you know, I looked at four or five other 305 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,920 cities. So, things like that I'm really happy to see 306 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,720 that we have that and um we have worked to strengthen that a 307 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,600 little bit. >> Absolutely. 308 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,800 » Yeah. >> Well, 309 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,280 » and Mel Commons is actually one of the very first communities in Southeast 310 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:13,080 Michigan to have a rental registration inspection program. Our 311 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,960 ordinance dates back to 1990. >> Awesome. 312 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,400 » It's awesome. >> That's good. Yeah. 313 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,440 » Yeah. >> For you. 314 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,440 » Yeah, for me. 315 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,440 » Very good. >> And then there you know, the enforcement 316 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,480 of it varies over the years, but 317 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,480 » Mhm. So. 318 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,560 » All right. So, anybody else have anything to add? 319 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:40,760 » This might go into This might go into some detail, but I was listening to 320 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:48,440 your comment. How does it get that bad that a property is that is so bad 321 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:53,000 um cuz we get a lot of those calls and we end up sending them a letter to Legal 322 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:57,080 Aid, but it gets it's really a bad property to live in, but yet they were 323 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:03,560 still paying rent. When do we do these inspections and are 324 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,560 they for every landlord in the city? 325 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,880 » Yes, every unit's required to be inspected every 2 years. 326 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:14,080 » Okay. So, what happens when you get a bad 327 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:17,800 property and it's it's not up to call. I mean, it's just 328 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,040 really bad. Are they fined immediately? What happened? 329 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:24,800 » Well, no. We go to the administrative hearings bureau when we do an inspection 330 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,840 and corrections are not being made. >> Okay. 331 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,800 » Yes. >> Okay. 332 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:33,680 » And in that case as Commissioner Ford you were saying they weren't registered. 333 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,440 They weren't registered landlords. They weren't being inspected because nobody 334 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:43,600 even knew they were rentals and that is a challenge. So, we do if you have a 335 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:49,320 neighbor who you believe is renting out your house their property or or you 336 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:53,640 know, then we do encourage you to go to the report a problem link and and put a 337 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:59,000 tip in there. I mean, it's You can be anonymous and um you know, report that 338 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:03,080 and we can make sure it's registered. >> And we do our best at we track property 339 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,160 sales. We'll track on principal residence exception, what people are 340 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,880 applying for for the city to determine well, if it's 0% homestead, then it's 341 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,520 probably a rental, and then we'll send out a you know, a request for rental 342 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,440 registration and inspection. So, we are trying to track some of that behind the 343 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,320 scenes. >> Awesome. 344 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:24,640 The one problem that I kept going to the AHC hearings 345 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:30,120 is when the landlord doesn't acknowledge and you know, you go 346 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:34,600 month after month after month with no response or no 347 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:40,040 um the the Italy diet comes to mind, you 348 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:44,760 know, but that you got people living there, there's clear violations, and yet 349 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:50,240 the landlord just goes just 350 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:54,080 we can we can AHC him to the all day long and it that I 351 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,840 » Yeah, we need we need to make it hurt them hurt them financially as much as 352 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:02,720 possible for them to take action. Absolutely. 353 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:08,240 » And you have my full support for that as well, especially when it's people who 354 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,240 are not members of our community. 355 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:15,880 All right. Anybody else? Cuz we are about 5 minutes before our next meeting. 356 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:19,920 » So, just to summarize, I'm going to make the one comment that was suggested by 357 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,640 Commissioner Brown, and then I'm going to wait to see 358 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,800 whether we're incorporating anything from Commissioner Calhoun. 359 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,200 Sounds good. >> Okay, got it. 360 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:34,960 » But and I would encourage everyone to not I would say let's put a time 361 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:39,280 time frame on you're going to send it out soon, right? And then 362 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:44,480 yeah, if you send it out soon and then we give it a week and give comments back 363 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:48,600 to Greg if you're interested in wanting some of those 364 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:52,400 you know, incorporated in our rental agreement so we can get them to Rob and 365 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:56,160 we can make that happen. All right. 366 00:24:53,720 --> 00:25:00,760 All right, thank you. And is there any other city business that we want to 367 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,560 attend to in the next 4 minutes? >> You want to talk about the four minutes? 368 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,280 » Okay. 369 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,160 Okay, excellent. 370 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,520 Thank you. 371 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,640 Thank you. 372 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,280 » So speaking of administrative hearings bureau, there's going to be a series of 373 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:43,200 amendments coming down the pipeline, ordinance amendments, as you can see in 374 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:47,200 this timeline I put together, but this is also that we can enforce 375 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,840 certain sections of the zoning ordinance through our administrative hearings 376 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,320 bureau. Uh the sections that I've identified here, they're related to 377 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,880 blight and and property maintenance and things of that nature as opposed to more 378 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:01,240 of a land use type issue issues, which should continue to be handled through 379 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,720 uh district or circuit court. Um so I have one 380 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:08,200 one way we're going to be amending the AHB and the blight ordinance so that we 381 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,960 can do these enforcements, but then the planning commission also needs to 382 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,880 initiate zoning ordinance amendments um at the same time or simultaneously, 383 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,960 which will ultimately come to the the city commission for approval as well. So 384 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,400 I just wanted to get this in front of you. So there's going to be pretty much 385 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,640 an ordinance amendment every meeting for the next several. 386 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,040 » Okay. >> Any questions that come, you know, shoot 387 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,320 them over to Greg and we can get those answered. So 388 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,920 » Awesome. So these are 389 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,400 Where do we find them? Online? Is >> The The sections here that I've 390 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:41,800 outlined, um you can find them. They're in the They're in the zoning ordinance. 391 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,800 » But 392 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,200 » But they're they're existing sections. >> to change? 393 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,920 » Just the abilities that we can enforce these sections through the 394 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,240 The ability to enforce them through the administrative hearings bureau as 395 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:59,520 opposed to district court, etc. >> So, we're just adding 8.6 878893949928 396 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,040 Is that it? Okay. Okay. Awesome. 397 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:15,200 Awesome. Okay. Thank you for this. This is helpful. Yes, this is helpful. 398 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:19,320 Okay. Now, does anyone else have any Got anything? Got anything? 399 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,040 Uh all right. So, Commissioner Commissioner Conant, do you have any 400 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:26,160 Commissioner comments for the work session? All right, hearing none, we 401 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,960 will move on to I will entertain a motion to adjourn the work session. 402 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,880 » Move to adjourn the work session. >> Second the motion. 403 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,920 » All those in favor? >> Aye. 404 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,120 » Any opposed? All right, the ayes have it.